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[Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/06 00:01:33


Post by: Dark Severance


Disclaimer: I am by far not an expert on the things I am posting so do not take my opinions and experiences as gospel. Your mileage may vary but I wanted to share the experience and decisions with the path we have taken. I hope they can be helpful and enjoyable to some people out there interested in a behind the scenes look.

I apologize ahead of time if I ramble. I want to try to explain the process, testing, cost, reasoning for final decisions and share as much as I can about game design and creation. I’ve often seen companies make a decision and then customers wonder why a particular choice was made or didn’t quite make sense from a consumer point of view. I figured that this would be a great experience to not only communicate the process and steps we’ve taken but also hopefully providing some useful information to other designers and creators.

Blog Index
  • Post 1 - Forming the Team, Choosing a Name, Crowd Funding, Art Acquisition
  • Post 3 - Art Acquistion Additional
  • Post 4 - Business Decisions, They are not always fair
  • Post 5 - Game Boxes, Shipping and Fulfillment
  • Post 6 - Game Outline, The Story, Design Process
  • Post 7 - Creating Conflict and Faction Backgrounds
  • Post 8 - Working on Other Games, Black/White Box Testing
  • Post 9 - Kickstarter Additional, Pricing, Retailer Terms, Distributor Terms
  • Post 10 - Intellectual Property, Kickstarter Design and Implementation
  • Post 11 - 80/20 and 20/60/20 Rule
  • Post 12 - Game Mechanics, Copyrights/Trademarks, Starting at the Beginning
  • Post 13 - Cutting 3d Sculpts
  • Post 14 - Time and Communication
  • Post 15 - Preorder vs Crowdfunding
  • Post 16 - Piercing the Shroud Boardgame
  • Post 17 - Starting from Scratch - Scratch Session

  • About Me
    Spoiler:

    It has always been a dream of mine to manufacture, publish and create games. I would come up with ideas start work on a project but then end up filing it away for one reason or another. There wasn’t enough time, I didn’t know the right people, I didn’t have the skills, it takes a lot of money to start, etc. Even though they were valid reasons, in the end they are were just excuses.

    I’ve been a gamer my whole life, originally started to get into programming to program games. Unfortunately it proved to be more stable to get a regular office job. My gaming focus then switched to board games and TCGs. For the last 6 years I’ve worked and volunteered for various companies in multiple capacities, basically whatever would get me to a convention, from Blizzard, Upper Deck, Cryptozoic Entertainment, IELLO and Renegade Games. It has given me an interesting experience in gaming.

    When my father had a heart attack, it made me take a step back and re-evaluate things. I never wanted to be at a point where something would happen and I’d regret not actually trying. You put things off for, thinking there is plenty of time to do it and before you know years have passed. I wanted to make my dream a reality and I had to stop making excuses. I had some experience and knowledge so now it was time to apply it.

    There was one catch, the family and house, which isn’t a bad thing. However I wouldn’t do something that would put me in debt beyond an amount I wasn’t capable of or risk my family's future and homes. That meant taking things slowly still working a full time job, while trying to do this.

    Now I didn’t have anymore real excuses, it was time to move forward on a new journey and make it happen. Before getting into the games, testing, prototyping and manufacturing there were a couple important decisions to make first.

    Casting Experience
    Spoiler:

    My experience with casting unlike some who started with miniatures, started with cosplay where for many years I’ve done cosplay and weapon prop creations for cosplayers. Most of them were Star Trek and/or Star Wars related but that was where my original casting experience came from.

    We would create the weapon or armor prop either from wood, various bits, foam, using old toys, worbla and fiberglass. Once we had our original we would then make a cast of the item using silicone to create two-part molds. We did one piece, two piece molds and also did slush casting for helmets and certain pieces if we wanted it hollow.

    To help reduce cost we usually would do a signup for them splitting costs so when 20-30 people signed up, paid in advance, then we’d start the mold creation and casting. If we didn’t get X people signed up, we didn’t collect money and didn’t get them created. It was almost like a mini-kickstarter without kickstarter. It let us focus on items that there were demand for, while not wasting time and money on things that didn’t quite have demand.

    I only had a vacuum pump that was used to degas the silicone. This meant we would get some bubbles in the casting but it wasn’t a lot. Since the pieces were medium/large pieces it didn’t need a lot of fixing, which was an easier process. Many of the cosplayers are used to cleanup with filling holes, sanding and customizing was all part of the process.

    For miniatures though that isn’t something that is acceptable. Since we were dealing with smaller pieces, fixing and patching was more difficult. No one likes bubbles or having to do more cleanup than usual. This meant we needed to also get a pressure pot to help reduce the bubbles to nothing. It did take a few weeks of trial and error to get things dialed in to where we considered it acceptable.

    To Seek a Publisher or to Self Publish?

    The main reason to create a game is because we want to get it published, there are two main options to getting something out to people. You should ask yourself if you want to approach an existing, established publisher with your design or instead would like to “self-publish”. It is usually one of the first decisions a designer should be making as both methods have their pro’s and con’s but the decision could affect how you will design the game as well as the work to put into it.

    Getting Published

    Many game designers get their games published by an established publisher. The competition can be first as there are thousands of designers all competing for the attention of a handful of publishers which may produce games like your own. Not all publishers are actively accepting submissions. Participating as part of a “Publisher Dating” at a convention like GenCon or Origins is a good place to start.

    One of the main advantages of seeking a publisher is that you do not assume the financial risk, this is transferred to the publisher who you sell your design too. This also lets you basically accept a check and get back to what you may love, designing more games. You usually don’t have to worry about artwork (generic is good for demoing) or creating an intricate prototype.

    There are disadvantages to being published as well too. You essentially are signing terms to release your design to the publisher. That can mean your game may not be published in the theme you designed, they might completely redesign the concept and theme of it. You could have made an awesome game about clowns but they decide instead to retheme it about dragons and you really wanted to make a game about dragons. You may not agree with changes they make to the rules as well.

    It could also mean your game may not see the light of day. This usually isn’t done to be malicious but games do get shelved for many reasons. The priority or focus, the market could change so one project would be shelved while others get priority. When negotiating you always want to ensure that if after X amount of time something is published or released rights can return back to creator/designer. This is also a good idea just in case the company who did the game, for some reason, went bankrupt or disbanded and it doesn’t leave your game in limbo.

    An example of this is Snow Tails, a board game done by Renegade Game Studio. It was originally out of print for a few years, rights to the game reverted back to the game designer. They were then approached by Renegade who wanted to republish the game. After some changes, updates and now the game is re-released.

    Having a game publisher pick up your game is a great option for many. They don’t have to spend time manufacturing, selling, setting up distribution, shipping, acquiring artwork, writing rules and more. It means you can focus more on making more games, instead of spending all the time just working on one or two. It however isn’t always the best option.

    Self Publish

    If you don’t want to release the rights to your game and you want more of a creative role in the process there is always self-publishing. This route ends up being the most expensive route of the process as you have to rely on yourself and your network vs an established network. You need to look at how much time you will invest in it as well as money.

    Do you need artwork or a graphic designer? Are you getting 3d work or sculpting done? Are you doing a website, who is doing the design? Where are you getting testers? What about distribution, advertising and promotion? After you have worked out your costs what about retailer pricing? These are all things you need to consider and more.

    Self Publishing ends up being more about business than game design to some degree. It does take a good business mind to be successful when going down this path. Most of the negotiating and connections are done by yourself though.

    For example when looking at distribution and someone asks you what your “retailer terms” are, they are looking for your wholesale price. You need to be aware of all the costs in your game from the plastic bags to the dice and how much it cost to produce. A retail buyer will want to know the wholesale price, how many they have to order to get that price, shipping cost, do they pay immediately or in 30 days (net 30). Keep in mind most retailers will want to double the wholesale price to make a profit on the game. Other things to look at game contents, box size as those can change how or what a retailer will order. Be aware of retail prices of games, their contents and how you plan to ultimately stack up to them.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/06 00:08:27


    Post by: Swastakowey


    Watching this with keen interest. Thank you for putting it up.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/06 00:29:01


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I'll have another update tomorrow. I will probably be making at least one post every day or at least every other day. Depending on if there are questions as we go along, it'll probably be quite a few posts before we're caught up to current days events.

    The idea is start with the beginning of the idea, concept art, include even some of the current costs we've paid for manufacturing, reasons for decisions. I'll try to sprinkle in some Kickstarter pro's/con's and cover a bit on making game prototypes for publishing, what needs to be worked on, etc.

    There is a lot of spread out information on various parts of game design. I figured I'd try to keep and provide a full picture as seen from our eyes to give at least one point of view.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/06 00:34:38


    Post by: Swastakowey


    It's really helpful this sort of thing, makes you open your eyes to the many details someone new to the experience likely has never given thought to. Even though it is likely experiences will differ, just having the experience of others ready to reference is handy to avoid some unwanted hickups along the way.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/06 00:44:38


    Post by: kenofyork


    Can you share a link to your company website? I am wondering about what you are making.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/06 08:17:48


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    kenofyork wrote:
    Can you share a link to your company website? I am wondering about what you are making.



    I am assuming his WWW link http://garage-gaming.com/

    I am looking this thread with quite some interest, always nice to hear experiences from people who attempted/ attempting such things.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/06 23:56:00


    Post by: Dark Severance


    kenofyork wrote:
    Can you share a link to your company website? I am wondering about what you are making.
    PsychoticStorm is correct it is my link. The last website update and when we moved it unfortunately caused some issues, we've almost worked them through all... I'm just waiting on one final ticket to fix some permissions with the database. We've been grinding away on various projects and since I was going to update it, I also wanted to highlight the hurdles we've gone through so far. Give me a few weeks and I'll have the content properly updated there.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/07 00:08:14


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Forming the Team

    Ultimately to be successful you need a good team. There are going to be a lot of points in the process where it helps to have someone pick you up and kick you in the butt. It also helps having a varied point of view and people who you can bounce ideas off of.

    I started with my wife who is also a gamer and a couple friends we set out on this journey. A couple friends who I used to do rules with back during the World of Warcraft TCG days helped with testing, rule lawyering and design. Then we had a friend who was a 3D sculptor, although fresh out of school, he didn’t have a lot of experience but was someone that I could trust. I also have a friend who has a really successful local print shop. Other than artwork and graphic design, it seemed like a great team.

    For probably everyone except me this adventure was probably more of a hobby, considering I am focused to make this work and the one doing the main investing. I worked with the print shop to get costs down but still keep high quality media. This would probably require me working for free but I’ve helped out at the shop during holiday rush before so this wasn’t new. I did work out future costs so that eventually it wouldn’t need me working for free. The casting we’ve worked with and had that part down. Now that the production pieces seemed to be handled we just needed something to actually produce.

    When you think about it the concept of creating and publishing a game is pretty simple:
    -- Develop game, write out rules, test them along with the story/lore.
    -- Acquire artwork*, concept artwork for sculpting and final artwork.
    -- Get sculpting done*, either through traditional methods or 3D digital work.
    -- If digitally sculpted, print out 3D masters*.
    -- If traditional sculpted, get miniature cut up for casting*.
    -- Get masters created and initial production cast*.
    -- Get tokens, manuals, print materials, boxes done*.
    -- Package everything up and sell it*.

    There is a bit more in between each of those steps. Hopefully I’ll try to cover them all, along with where possible delays happen. Every point there is a * is a possible place, if you are working solo, that you are waiting for material or someone else to finish. Each of those points is a place that if there is a delay, it can cause a chain reaction of delays. That is all assuming you have the initial funds to create a print run, we haven’t gotten into funding methods and minimum order quantity (MOQ) yet but I’ll cover that part soon.

    There are four games that we’ve been working on, two of them are board games and two are miniatures games. We decided to go the self-publishing route for multiple reasons. One was I wanted to be more involved with the process but I also wasn’t too keen on someone changing my concept. I also think it is important to understand the full process, to be part of that, as it can be useful when you get to designing games.

    Event Horizon / Interstellar Crisis

    Before there was Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Halo Fleet Battles and Dropfleet there was Full Thrust, Star Fleet Battles, Battlefleet Gothic and a couple others. For the longest time those were the dominators of the spaceship battle games on the market. Even though a couple of them weren’t supported anymore, they were still popular. Compared to ground miniatures wargames and skirmish games though, the space games were a handful. It was partially for that reason we chose that as our starting point.

    There are also design decisions on this route. Spaceships sculpting wise as the more forgivable than infantry, they are also easier to sculpt which meant I could rely on a partner who may not had full experience yet. 3D costs for sculpting ships were more inexpensive, they were easier to cast and we believe we could offer something new. I’ll go more into this project a bit later but for now I want to lay the groundwork for some things.

    The Name Game

    One of the first rules of design is to not be married to the game. You might think that an idea or part is integral for the game, your local area might agree but then you find out it isn’t the majority. You also have to be aware that you can’t make everyone happy so you’ll have to make a decision that benefits the majority of your clientbase.

    When we chose “Event Horizon” we thought we were being clever. An event horizon is a boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer, in layman’s terms it is referred to as the “the point of no return”. Since conflict reached a certain point, a point of no return, before conflict erupted into full war it seemed to match. The jump drives the ships use for travel also create a gravitational field, which essentially creates a mini blackhole between the destination and place of origin. The name seemed to match that as well. Unfortunately all everyone else saw was in reference to the 1997 horror / science fiction movie Event Horizon.

    You can be too clever… sometimes when you try to keep utilize the KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) method it ends up being more complex. This is what happens when you have two friends that are engineers. ^_^ The end result was that we needed to change the name.

    Funding / Kickstarter / IndieGoGo

    Before I segment more into sculpting, artwork and additional games we should take a look at funding. If we were going to seek a publisher, funding isn’t really an issue. Since we decided to self-publish, then that means something has to pay for the work being done. Even if I make the sacrifice of not getting paid, it isn’t fair to ask someone else unless they are partner to do it. It could be the greatest idea and might even make millions, however you shouldn’t have anyone working for free… that goes for artwork and sculpting as well. No simply getting credit for being part of a project isn’t enough to compensate someone for their time and work.

    That means your project will need to have funds. You have to put money into something to make something. The traditional method is to take out a line of credit, get a business loan or find funds from a generous benefactor. There are multiple ways to get funding through traditional methods. Even though I made the leap to do this, I am still working a full time job and I wasn’t allowed to take a 2nd mortgage on the house to fund my games. ^_^

    I did have some money which was put aside for hobbies. I set a certain amount of my paycheck aside that goes to personal expenses and hobbies. This meant funneling that money into the business, mostly to obtain artwork and sculpting. That also meant I couldn’t get too far ahead so had to make a careful plan, prioritize what I wanted and in what order. Some of that will be a bit more evident when I talk about art acquisition.

    I won’t go into a lot of detail about Kickstarter and IndieGoGo as I feel there are better posts that cover it. I will give a brief summary for those not familiar with them (are there people who still don’t know about them?).

    IndieGoGo
    This is one of the least popular methods. Don’t get me wrong, it has benefits for certain projects but isn’t the most popular for funding games. One of the main reasons is because you can set your campaign to fixed or flexible funding. Flexible funding means even if the goal isn’t met, the creator still gets all the money (minus fees of course). The other disadvantage is that it pulls money and charges you immediately when you back vs Kickstarter which waits until the campaign is over with. I think because of those things it gets the least amount of traffic and has a stigma associated with it unfortunately.

    Kickstarter
    This is the most popular method. I have been part of a three fairly successful Kickstarters, assisted in posting, administering the campaign and been part of the process. I will say it is a constant roller coaster for a creator. There isn’t a group account or admin account, so essentially we shared a creator login, but it allowed us to always have a presence in comments and post updates when needed. They were queued in an approved post so all that was left was to cut and paste when certain campaign levels were reached. I also ran my own campaign, although unsuccessful, but the experience was worthwhile.

    The main thing is Kickstarter today is much different than it was three years ago. This is mostly uniquely related to the games category than any other category. Some of it due to backers having more knowledge readily available to them. Another reason is unfortunately a few people have been stung by it, not received product which has made people very cautious and can create a semi-toxic environment at times. This has made it a bit more difficult for the new or smaller guy since backers want to see more product examples, than just renders and concept art.

    The advantages of Kickstarter however still make it worthwhile. You have to remember to communicate and outline the details early on. Estimating production time can be hard depending if you are dealing with overseas, no matter the estimates add on 20% more time as a buffer. Worse case is you’ll be delivering early. Don’t try an aggressive schedule for your first one. Be aware that even if you have vendors/sales saying you only need money and you are good, that doesn’t guarantee your place in a queue. Be sure you have your contracts and agreements outlined otherwise it is just cursory promise. I’ll try to cover a bit more of that when we get to dealing with other manufacturing companies.

    This should go without saying but it still doesn’t happen, be sure you understand all the costs with delivering your product from manufacturing to shipping, then estimate more. I’ve seen too many projects where if the initial product they funded have been fine, but after aggressively doing stretch goals they find they underestimated not only time but money. You’ll notice Kickstarters are starting to have 2 waves which is becoming a normal thing. The first wave usually handles the initial product, while the 2nd wave are additional add-on and/or stretch goals.

    Art Acquisition

    I will be coming back to this topic but wanted to say a couple things and add a few pictures, afterall no one just wants to read a bunch of text… there needs to be some shiny.

    Artist skill level and expectations vary greatly. You need to be clear, concise and understand the terms you set with an artist when you are acquiring artwork. Simply paying for a commission doesn’t mean you own the copyright to something. Often lower priced commissions are not meant for commercial resale, they are for people who want to pay for custom artwork (possibly fanart) created for them. If you plan on using it for commercial purposes, you need to communicate it with the artist. This will most likely cause a change in the price. It doesn’t matter if it is just concept art, not going on a box, if it is for a retail product you really want to communicate it.

    Some artists will require full payment up front. This isn’t uncommon for first time customers. However that doesn’t mean you should just blindly accept someone, be sure you research them, their work and make sure they are who you want to work with. Others will require half or a percentage up front and the rest upon delivery. When you’ve developed a good relationship with an artist they might start work and collect payment upon delivery. Outline payment terms up front, know what you are paying and when you are paying.

    How artists approach creating artwork can vary pretty big. Be sure you research the artists, that their styles match what you are looking for. Each artist has strengths, weakness and styles so you want to make sure what you are trying to get made they can do it. Don’t assume because they do great mecha, that they might be able to a dynamic battle or maybe you want them to create a character with some direction. They always want examples, clear information on what they are drawing to make sure what you are visualizing matches what they will actually draw. How they approach drawing the artwork may vary as well. I’m going to cover 4 different approaches by different artists but all roughly cost the same give or take about $50.

    Approach A: Given some reference pictures, type up descriptions they created this piece from scratch. There wasn’t a lot of questions after we outlined what we were looking for. There wasn’t additional feedback to determine if they were going down the same route or drafts, it was just one shot drawing.
    Spoiler:

    Approach B: Similar to above, we gave the artist an information packet. The packet contains reference pictures, descriptions of what we are looking for and examples. We received an initial draft which let us choose a style of outfit for the armor we were looking for. Then we received the final colored version after we picked the style.
    Spoiler:


    Approach C: Again similar to above, once the information packet was received. This time we got a rough draft with poses, then another draft later with outfit choices and then the final piece.
    Spoiler:

    Approach D: We got a real rough draft which I didn’t include in the examples. Then we received a primary draft with multiple options to choose from. We were able to give feedback on what we liked and didn’t like. This helped the artist get a better feel for what we wanted. Then was a third rough draft going a bit more detail on our choices, some matched and some stretching boundaries. Then a finalized concept which we went over color palette choices. Then we received the final versions.
    Spoiler:

    [



    My communication with all these artists was pretty much the same thing. When I approached them I outlined what I was planning to do, I outlined which of their pieces in their portfolio/galleries interested me and provided them with information packet to determine prices. After discussing rights for the images and payment terms we went to work. The artwork doesn’t take too long to complete and I tend to give 1-2 weeks, although some took a month due to other projects. We communicated and wasn’t in a hurry so these were fine. Each one approached things differently though and that is part of what you want to highlight in your communication. If you expecting Approach D but instead get Approach A, it is probably because you weren’t clear in what you were looking for.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/07 09:18:51


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    That was quite interesting, how can you assure approach D?

    To my standards that is what you need on a concept art, approach C is good for character art when D is finalized and set to stone.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/07 19:28:05


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    That was quite interesting, how can you assure approach D?

    To my standards that is what you need on a concept art, approach C is good for character art when D is finalized and set to stone.
    You can really only be sure you get approach D by outlining what you want when you approach an artist. To ensure you always get a proper quote for that style, your example packet should outline the process you are looking. Some artists might call it first/second pass of character designs, thumbnails or concept sheets and others refer to them as drafts. Sometimes you can look at the artist commission page to get an idea of what they would refer to each part as, they might even have broken down prices for poses, background, coloring, etc.

    For me it was a bit of trial and error. What one artist might consider standard, another artist might not so it is always best to use examples. My packets when I approach someone usually contains a few paragraphs of what I want drawn, style (anime, western, cartoony), is it posed, weapons, coloring along with examples. When I talk about styles I try to not only give a reference to a picture example, but also base it off of what is in their gallery. When looking for concept character creations, I would explain that I'm looking to create characters and would like X (provide image) with choices, that would let us discuss what we liked, disliked and where to proceed. Sometimes you might be comfortable with saying you liked the drawing for "C" and other times you might say, what if we mixed this piece from "A" and this part from "B" so they might need another pass. Then you would get a final piece and colored. Be sure you tell them what format you would like it in, PSD, PNG and the size. If you plan to ever use it for print I tend to make sure it is at least 300px because that is what printers like. It also means you can resize it without much degradation or downsize it to 72px for web art.

    Established artists will probably charge you for the multiple passes, thumbnails and newer artists might not. That doesn't necessarily mean just approach new artists or be afraid to approach an established artist. One artist that I normally worked with schedule is changing, they are moving towards doing a art book and prices are increasing unfortunately. It was through convention networking that I met one of the current artists I'm working with. Conventions especially smaller ones aren't a bad place to find art talent along artist alley. When I've worked with game companies at conventions they always get approached by graphic designers, pitched game ideas and I tend to keep track, cards for them all. Sometimes my first choice may not be available because of scheduling... that is the joy of relying on freelancers.

    I had said I will try to list actual prices vs rough estimates. Estimates can always be a bit vague what it covers and have a large range. When someone says concept art costs $100-1500 it can mean so much more than just one piece, the style, the detail, coloring, etc. It isn't meant to mean look for lower priced art but unfortunately it doesn't help people see what the standard is.

    Speaking of "Standard"... don't be lulled by anyone that something standard is just how it is. One artist a cover art image was $2000 for one piece. Granted they've done some really great work for Marvel, Blizzard but that was a bit more than a Independent person would pay. That is his standard, while another person who does just as good work would have been $500. Keep in mind standard really means 'average' and one person might be approached by higher tiered clients all the time, so their average is higher than another person. There is no real standard when it comes to determine art acquisition per say, even with payment. Some want 30% up front, others want full payment, some want 50% up front, while others won't require payment until receipt of the first pass. Digital artists vs traditional artists have different standards as well.

    Keep track of who you work with, what you liked, didn't like and what you paid. That will help you determine more of the direction you want to continue going as well as what you might need to be clearer in your information packet.

    Approach A: I received a total of 3 character concepts based similar to the image example in the spoiler. There were 3 images, then one image which was basically a group shot of them side by side. The originals were in .png format. I was quoted at $20/hour, which can be scary at first when you aren't sure how much time is spent to create a certain piece. If an hour quote, make sure they quote you how many hours that should be. In this case it was 18 hours of work for a total of $360, which could break down to $120 per character.

    Approach B: I received one character but two drawings (front and back), which included an initial thumbnail of 3 options for the design. It was $200 total, the flat coloring was $50 while the two non-posed sketches (front and back) were $150. If I wanted extra thumbnails I could have gotten them for $25 per design.

    Approach C: For two separate full body characters in a pose it was $240. Even though it was only $120 per character, it included a rough pose draft so I could choose the pose. Then a concept sheet with 3 outfit designs to choose from, which the final pieces were based from.

    Approach D: We got a real rough draft which I didn’t include in the examples, hand drawn and really rough. From there we talked about what we liked, didn't like and why. Then we received a primary draft with multiple options to choose from. We were able to give feedback on what we liked and didn’t like. This helped the artist get a better feel for what we wanted. Then was a third rough draft going a bit more detail on our choices, some matched and some stretching boundaries. Then a finalized concept which we went over color palette choices. Then we received the final versions. This cost us a total of $360, $180 for the female and $180 for the male.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/07 20:06:20


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


    Really interesting stuff there in general,

    and also in terms of the choices you made were they were choices to be made

    look forward to reading more


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/07 20:14:39


    Post by: chaos0xomega


    I am following with much interest.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/07 22:45:39


    Post by: Dark Severance


    It Is Just Business

    From a customer/consumer standpoint when someone pays money for a product, it was represented in a certain way, then later it somehow changed or was modified... it isn't necessarily because the business is lying or trying to swindle someone. Even when they do communicate what happened, it is easy to say, "that is just an excuse". They were presented something, paid for it and that is what they expecting. Unfortunately things do happen and it isn't always in the control of the person you purchased something from. I realize that isn't a consumer/customer problem. The reality is it happens more than you think and it isn't always within your control even when you think you've planned and been careful. Timelines, promises, services all change in the manufacturing side of things especially. Then often the business is held holding the bag and of course everyone blames them.

    For that reason I wanted to get a fireteam (5 units) of 32mm miniatures created and casted. It is meant to be an initial test run. It gives us something to utilize in game videos, something more tangible to test with other than proxy units, some time to get it painted and gives an actual real product to demonstrate the direction we're going with a certain line. I knew overall it would probably take 6-8 months based on previous projects, although those were with metal miniatures and these were with resin.

    In the beginning of the year around April I contacted a company who offered sculpting, 3D printing, casting and were known for their quality resin miniatures. At first I contacted them because I was under the impression they also do 2D artwork. After dealing with various freelancers, I wanted to deal one shot with someone to handle everything. This was not only meant as a test run to determine if I would do future business with them. In the end we will do the casting but I wanted the initial run to be handled by someone, since I know I'm working full time. In the case that I do future Kickstarters I wanted to be sure I had another source to relieve the workload if I needed.

    I found out they didn't do 2D artwork so I would need to provide that, there were certain specifics that they were looking for. They also wanted to know my timeline, which I did say was pretty open but would like something at the latest by Aug/Sept, Oct being the latest. They said since they didn't do artwork that I would need to provide that, we went over the specifics of what they needed. Once defined they said after concept art, they could deliver 2-3 days per miniatures for sculpting. Now that seems great but I also knew that was a bit too good to be true but wanted to test this process.

    In July I provided them concept art for my fireteam. It was a male and female, front and back shots with weapon designs. We wanted 5 unites for the fireteam, 3 men and 2 women done in a multi-piece part so the poses could be slightly dynamic. I didn't want them static, part of the reason is for initial costs. I knew at the time I probably couldn't budget 3 completely different pieces, but knew we could make the arms change to give them a bit more dynamic pose. I also wanted to offer a optional head piece, helmeted or no helmet. There were a couple issues where they let me know sculpting and casting could cause an issue based on the artwork, which I was aware of. Because of their schedule I was looking until Aug/Sept before they could get them to me. It was later than I was hoping because I had wanted to bring something to GenCon with me... but nothing I could do about it. I also expected it since my initial encounter was left with me acquiring art, I would not have expected to be in a queue. At this point since I thought we had a commitment, I would have expected to be in a queue waiting.

    I was quoted for the 3d sculpting and 3d printing of the master £265, which was £250 for the 3d work/print and £15 for the mold for casting. Then the cost of each cast was based on the weight of the miniature, roughly £0.50. If we wanted different arms/weapons there would be a slight increase in the charge. So overall I was looking at 3 fireteams (100 sets of 15 miniatures) for a total of £4725, £3975 for the 3d/Masters and £750 for the casting. I was ready to do 3 full fireteams yet because I was still evaluating so I said we would start with one fireteam and move up from there.

    In Sept I was unfortunately told that they could print and cast but sculpting they were overloaded and can't get to me until October. I had waited until this point, what was another month. It would take awhile to find a new sculptor and once I found them, they wouldn't probably be able to get to it until Dec because of their own timelines. A month seemed just fine to wait. Then October comes around and they still can't help me. It was a nice friendly email, trying to let me down easy. I was told if I found a sculptor they could do the printing and casting but unfortunately pricing also went up. Now it was £400 per miniature and 100 casts as a minimum order.

    This is one example of many things that can happen behind the scenes. The good news is I didn't have a Kickstarter running, I didn't have pre-orders up so I didn't have someone waiting for items but me. However you can see how from the other side of fence, it can look like someone is making excuses. I get it too. I'm a small guy in a pond. They have a business to run, they want to launch another Kickstarter so they need their sculptors and those are going to take a priority because as a business they are looking at their revenue. Since they didn't collect a down payment, we didn't have an official contract other than an email promise, then it technically wasn't a lie... It is just business.

    Could you have imagined if I had done pre-orders or did a Kickstarter? Then I would be stuck scrambling to find a sculptor and since everything was based on initial quotes, now pricing for things have changed a bit. Fortunately I wasn't in that situation which was why I do test runs. For the company I work with that is part of what we do. Before deciding on a vendor, we do small runs to see if they can meet our requirements before deciding to commit fully. It let's us set proper expectations up front.

    I do know some traditional sculptors for greens that I could turn too. We made a decision awhile back to be digital though so I needed to find me a 3d sculptor. If we need to make changes, additions or change the cuts it is must easier to do with a digital sculpt than with a green. It is also easier to make sure everything is sculpted uniformly. I have contacts for a few 3d sculptors so there are some options but I'm not sure what direction yet. We have one offer for 3 male posed miniatures, 2 female posed miniatures, 1 helmet head sculpted for $1250. Then there is the cutting of the miniature to create a mutiposed pieces, 1 head, 1 torso, 1 pelvis with legs posed, 1 helmet head, 4 arms (interchangeable) for $750. Now I'm looking at $2000 to get them done and that unfortunately doesn't cover 3D printing or casting yet. It will probably take a couple months to fully complete given other commitments. Costs have already gone up a bit more than originally budgeted. What was originally meant to be done by Sept has now moved out until Jan/Feb to fully be completed which includes casting too.

    I have started to digress a bit. I'll have to go back to the beginning a bit, to cover more on game design of the other games and the lessons we've learned from that process as well. Also to go into the metal miniatures we've had done from our initial test run earlier in the year. I will come back to go over game mechanics and other things from what I've called Project: Code Zero later, in the next couple days I'll go over some more of Interstellar Crisis.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/08 21:44:55


    Post by: Erebus Studios


    I am very interested in this topic, I myself am moving into being a producer, I have yet to contact manufacturers in regards to how the boxes are shipped, from what I read you say they come unassembled and need to be assembled? I was under the impression that it truly depended on what company you went with and what your desires were for the item to come ready to be sold or unassembled and in need of yourself to do so?

    Also shipping and storage is a big thing as well, I have learned of a few warehouses were you can pay a monthly fee to store your products from were orders for retailers ( and your fulfilment center for if you started by kickstarter) could be placed to you and through you , you could ship out orders from them to the ordered stores and distributors. I am interested in your thoughts on this area, I assume your starting with a miniature board game?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/08 22:43:37


    Post by: Vertrucio


    If you're as small as this, most likely your house/garage is your warehouse and fulfillment center.

    It also depends on where you live. Here in SoCal any kind of space can be expensive.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/08 23:17:46


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Erebus Studios wrote:
    I have yet to contact manufacturers in regards to how the boxes are shipped, from what I read you say they come unassembled and need to be assembled? I was under the impression that it truly depended on what company you went with and what your desires were for the item to come ready to be sold or unassembled and in need of yourself to do so?

    Also shipping and storage is a big thing as well, I have learned of a few warehouses were you can pay a monthly fee to store your products from were orders for retailers ( and your fulfilment center for if you started by kickstarter) could be placed to you and through you , you could ship out orders from them to the ordered stores and distributors. I am interested in your thoughts on this area, I assume your starting with a miniature board game?


    Game Boxes

    Boxes for games come in a variety of sizes and can be handled multiple ways. I'm assuming we're talking empty boxes for stuff that you will be packing in them. Are we talking boxes for miniatures or the full game or an expansion? Some companies manufacture, will do the assembly and packing if you send them all the stuff. Others will send you the boxes that are die cut (the box has been cut for folds, etc) but not folded to you. You can also choose to have them send the boxes someplace else and then send your game items there to have them fold, assemble and pack. Do you want a box with a printed front and back, like a typical game box or do you just want the box that you'll slap a sticker/label on?

    There are packaging material companies like Uline that have some pretty standard boxes, booster packs for things. You would have to assemble them and they are usually blank. You can also call local box companies as well. I use Northwest Paper Box because I can couple my orders with my friends print company and get decent deals. Before you call though you'll want to know how big of a box you want. If they already have a die cut for that size box then great but if they need to do a new die cut then you'll have to pay for that (anywhere from $50-$150 for the ones I've done).

    I don't typically worry about boxes until later in the game design. I want to make sure that I know how many items I'm packing and the sizes they are coming in. Are the tokens I'm using die cut sheets and what size are they? Do I have a lot of loose items, will they be in baggies or do I need special insert on the box?

    Keep in mind you want to know how you also intend to ship now and later. Even if you use a distribution or shipping company initially, what about the future? If you are in the US then flat rate is fairly good method so make sure your box will fit into their boxes. You don't want too long or strange shaped boxes because you want them to go properly on shelves in retail game stores. It is one reasons companies are starting to shy away from booster packs for smaller square/rectangle boxes because it is not only easier to ship, shelve and pack. It is good if your main game box can fit a case comfortable in standard shipping boxes. Distributors will like this because it means if someone buys a half case and other products, it is easier for them to pack. If the boxes are too big or too long a game store might only buy half case because they don't have shelf space for it.

    Shipping and Storage

    Fulfillment centers are great for a large order Kickstarter, if your game is going to be multiple pallets. If it is less than a pallet then it may be cheaper to ship and store things locally, like your garage or spare room for awhile. It really depends on how large of a scope you are talking about, how many backers and where your main items will be manufactured and shipped to arrive. Anything that requires a dock for delivery I can route to a couple local destinations where I can pick them up. If deliveries don't require a dock I mostly store things at the house in a spare room.

    You want to think to the future, not just the now though. After you've sold a large amount of pre-orders or got a great Kickstarter, how do you plan to expand and go from there? Overall Kickstarter is great and it might seem there is a lot of money to be made but in reality most of that gets eaten up by time, manufacturing costs, shipping, etc. The real profit comes from future sales and add-ons later. How do you plan to deliver those items in the future, what shipping will you use?

    Amazon does have fulfillment where you can load your pallet, ship it to their warehouse but it does require your games to have a registered UPC (about $25 cost). If you have a lot of small items, Amazon isn't the best choice because of all the UPC codes you need. You would then pay a small monthly fee for storage but could upload a spreadsheet from Kickstarter and have your orders fulfilled through them. The nice thing about Amazon is amazon prime ships for free. Although you'd charge a small shipping fee to handle the initial costs of freight overall shipping can be much cheaper than traditional methods. I would probably set up Amazon for Canada, UK (which can distribute to Europe) and the US. In the future though I'd probably ship domestically in the US because its cheaper but continue to ship a pallet/store at UK/Canada locations. This does unfortunately require separate accounts for each but it lets me fulfill things easier in the future. I can still sell from my website but then have it fulfilled by Amazon which helps with customs and fees.

    Stonemaier Games did a couple really good detailed articles, which can provide better information than me on using Amazon:
  • How to Provide "Free" Shipping Worldwide on Kickstarter: A Comprehensive Guide
  • Lessons Learned: Insights, Mistakes, and Solutions for Offering Worldwide Shipping on Kickstarter


  • As for what we're starting with, there are a few things. We have a couple miniatures games, board game, party game and a card battle game we've been working on as well as a couple other games we've contributed that I can't talk about because of NDAs.

    Maids vs Butlers: Card Dice Battle Game
    A group of friends wanted a game that had more eyecandy for females than males. MvB sort of got created from that. It was so the woman could have their good looking Butlers (or Maids if that was their preference) while men could have their own. Players design and create an initial deck of 30 cards. It could be entirely maids or butlers but some do trigger on having mixed teams. The battles utilize a rock/paper/scissors mechanic, boosting attacks with dice management to trigger abilities. Players take turns as Attacker/Defender roles, playing cards until one player has won 2 trophies from another. The idea is to eventually have expansions Pirates vs Ninjas, Demons vs Angels, Elves vs Dwarves and even allow them to mix so it oculd be Maids vs Ninjas.

    Maids vs Butlers: Board Game
    Utilizing similar artwork but moving in the board/miniatures game realm players take on the role of a maid or butler, attempting to get the other players to lose favor with the Lord/Master of the House and get fired. There are randomized objectives that can be completed to increase favor. There are also weapons scattered through the mansion they can obtain to fight with like a wine bottle, butter knives, fire poker, etc.

    Interstellar Crisis
    Interstellar Crisis is a tactical miniatures skirmish game set in a science fiction universe, where empires compete for control. Players utilize blind movement system using cards to determine their ships moves. Movement uses a type of inertia system so it continues moving along its path even if you don't apply more thrust, which lets a ship glide, rotate to bring weapons to bear a different direction or to protect a damaged side.

    Code Zero
    Players take control of a small army of troops competing with each other to achieve or complete one of several objectives to complete their mission. The game utilizes a mix of activating, moving and shooting with one to two individual units or fireteams to create squad based gameplay. Squads are comprised of 2-3 fireteams usually made up of 3-5 units, comprising an overall force of roughly 15-30 units per side. It is designed to scale from a Skirmish level of 5-12 individual models to a larger squad based gameplay of 15-30 models.

    Rambling Ramblers : Party Game
    There are three decks to choose cards from: Nouns, Adjectives and Verbs. Players will draw 10 cards from the deck of their choice. The cards have single words on the top and bottom, so depending on orientation of the card you have two choices. Player 1 creates a rambling sentence. There is a limited number of transitions available so if one player uses all "the" or "a" tokens then it makes it harder for other players. Game rounds have certain objectives and topics. The next player creates their own sentence or gets bonus points if they can successfully add it to the back of the first players sentence. This is being designed by my daughter and son who are learning about game design.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/09 20:39:39


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    That is an interesting line up for a game company and delving in both boardgames and wargames too, will be interesting to see how it will evolve.

    For me boxes, at least at this time, are a primary concern in design, but I am working on boardgame ideas and these need the box, a wargame would not be so much interested in the box, still keeping standard boxes size in mind does not hurt at all.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/10 15:03:03


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


    Another important part of box design is making sure the individual contents can't damage each other an issue I've seen with several KS where either more thought (or even a different packing order) would have been better

    (you want pointy minis isolated from cards, booklets, leaflets etc so they dont' get sratched/punctured)

    Plus boardgamers like to store it all in one box (including expansions if possible)


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/10 22:24:59


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Indeed, a comment I heard a lot about Decent 2.0 was indeed the foresight to have space for the expansions.

    Admittedly FFG was sure that they would get the expansions and a small company might waste time resources and make the box feel empty, but, one can design the box in such a way that it is future-proofed.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/10 23:12:35


    Post by: Dark Severance


    One thing that companies seem to forget is to test it with sleeves. When your cards are sleeved, they should also fit into the box. A lot of times their inserts will fit the cards but after they are sleeved they'll be too tight of a fit or won't fit at all. AEG has also shown that people will pay money just for a box to house all the expansions like they did with Smash Up: The Big Geeky Box Expansion.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/11 09:45:42


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Indeed this a good one sleeves are usually a must, The Smash Up box was a stroke of genius indeed, the only thing I can say bad about Smashup really is they should have included an extra card for each faction for random setups (the best way to play Smash Up) and drafting maybe.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/11 18:13:13


    Post by: TrenchCoatCreep


    Really interested in this game,always thought publishing my own game would be pretty neat put can't exactly do it right now(I'm in school).Would be nice if you could tell me the type of lore or maybe style this game of yours would be as in something grimdark like 40k .


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/11 23:29:04


    Post by: Erebus Studios


    Spoiler:
     Dark Severance wrote:
    Erebus Studios wrote:
    I have yet to contact manufacturers in regards to how the boxes are shipped, from what I read you say they come unassembled and need to be assembled? I was under the impression that it truly depended on what company you went with and what your desires were for the item to come ready to be sold or unassembled and in need of yourself to do so?

    Also shipping and storage is a big thing as well, I have learned of a few warehouses were you can pay a monthly fee to store your products from were orders for retailers ( and your fulfilment center for if you started by kickstarter) could be placed to you and through you , you could ship out orders from them to the ordered stores and distributors. I am interested in your thoughts on this area, I assume your starting with a miniature board game?


    Game Boxes

    Boxes for games come in a variety of sizes and can be handled multiple ways. I'm assuming we're talking empty boxes for stuff that you will be packing in them. Are we talking boxes for miniatures or the full game or an expansion? Some companies manufacture, will do the assembly and packing if you send them all the stuff. Others will send you the boxes that are die cut (the box has been cut for folds, etc) but not folded to you. You can also choose to have them send the boxes someplace else and then send your game items there to have them fold, assemble and pack. Do you want a box with a printed front and back, like a typical game box or do you just want the box that you'll slap a sticker/label on?

    There are packaging material companies like Uline that have some pretty standard boxes, booster packs for things. You would have to assemble them and they are usually blank. You can also call local box companies as well. I use Northwest Paper Box because I can couple my orders with my friends print company and get decent deals. Before you call though you'll want to know how big of a box you want. If they already have a die cut for that size box then great but if they need to do a new die cut then you'll have to pay for that (anywhere from $50-$150 for the ones I've done).

    I don't typically worry about boxes until later in the game design. I want to make sure that I know how many items I'm packing and the sizes they are coming in. Are the tokens I'm using die cut sheets and what size are they? Do I have a lot of loose items, will they be in baggies or do I need special insert on the box?

    Keep in mind you want to know how you also intend to ship now and later. Even if you use a distribution or shipping company initially, what about the future? If you are in the US then flat rate is fairly good method so make sure your box will fit into their boxes. You don't want too long or strange shaped boxes because you want them to go properly on shelves in retail game stores. It is one reasons companies are starting to shy away from booster packs for smaller square/rectangle boxes because it is not only easier to ship, shelve and pack. It is good if your main game box can fit a case comfortable in standard shipping boxes. Distributors will like this because it means if someone buys a half case and other products, it is easier for them to pack. If the boxes are too big or too long a game store might only buy half case because they don't have shelf space for it.

    Shipping and Storage

    Fulfillment centers are great for a large order Kickstarter, if your game is going to be multiple pallets. If it is less than a pallet then it may be cheaper to ship and store things locally, like your garage or spare room for awhile. It really depends on how large of a scope you are talking about, how many backers and where your main items will be manufactured and shipped to arrive. Anything that requires a dock for delivery I can route to a couple local destinations where I can pick them up. If deliveries don't require a dock I mostly store things at the house in a spare room.

    You want to think to the future, not just the now though. After you've sold a large amount of pre-orders or got a great Kickstarter, how do you plan to expand and go from there? Overall Kickstarter is great and it might seem there is a lot of money to be made but in reality most of that gets eaten up by time, manufacturing costs, shipping, etc. The real profit comes from future sales and add-ons later. How do you plan to deliver those items in the future, what shipping will you use?

    Amazon does have fulfillment where you can load your pallet, ship it to their warehouse but it does require your games to have a registered UPC (about $25 cost). If you have a lot of small items, Amazon isn't the best choice because of all the UPC codes you need. You would then pay a small monthly fee for storage but could upload a spreadsheet from Kickstarter and have your orders fulfilled through them. The nice thing about Amazon is amazon prime ships for free. Although you'd charge a small shipping fee to handle the initial costs of freight overall shipping can be much cheaper than traditional methods. I would probably set up Amazon for Canada, UK (which can distribute to Europe) and the US. In the future though I'd probably ship domestically in the US because its cheaper but continue to ship a pallet/store at UK/Canada locations. This does unfortunately require separate accounts for each but it lets me fulfill things easier in the future. I can still sell from my website but then have it fulfilled by Amazon which helps with customs and fees.

    Stonemaier Games did a couple really good detailed articles, which can provide better information than me on using Amazon:
  • How to Provide "Free" Shipping Worldwide on Kickstarter: A Comprehensive Guide
  • Lessons Learned: Insights, Mistakes, and Solutions for Offering Worldwide Shipping on Kickstarter


  • As for what we're starting with, there are a few things. We have a couple miniatures games, board game, party game and a card battle game we've been working on as well as a couple other games we've contributed that I can't talk about because of NDAs.

    Maids vs Butlers: Card Dice Battle Game
    A group of friends wanted a game that had more eyecandy for females than males. MvB sort of got created from that. It was so the woman could have their good looking Butlers (or Maids if that was their preference) while men could have their own. Players design and create an initial deck of 30 cards. It could be entirely maids or butlers but some do trigger on having mixed teams. The battles utilize a rock/paper/scissors mechanic, boosting attacks with dice management to trigger abilities. Players take turns as Attacker/Defender roles, playing cards until one player has won 2 trophies from another. The idea is to eventually have expansions Pirates vs Ninjas, Demons vs Angels, Elves vs Dwarves and even allow them to mix so it oculd be Maids vs Ninjas.

    Maids vs Butlers: Board Game
    Utilizing similar artwork but moving in the board/miniatures game realm players take on the role of a maid or butler, attempting to get the other players to lose favor with the Lord/Master of the House and get fired. There are randomized objectives that can be completed to increase favor. There are also weapons scattered through the mansion they can obtain to fight with like a wine bottle, butter knives, fire poker, etc.

    Interstellar Crisis
    Interstellar Crisis is a tactical miniatures skirmish game set in a science fiction universe, where empires compete for control. Players utilize blind movement system using cards to determine their ships moves. Movement uses a type of inertia system so it continues moving along its path even if you don't apply more thrust, which lets a ship glide, rotate to bring weapons to bear a different direction or to protect a damaged side.

    Code Zero
    Players take control of a small army of troops competing with each other to achieve or complete one of several objectives to complete their mission. The game utilizes a mix of activating, moving and shooting with one to two individual units or fireteams to create squad based gameplay. Squads are comprised of 2-3 fireteams usually made up of 3-5 units, comprising an overall force of roughly 15-30 units per side. It is designed to scale from a Skirmish level of 5-12 individual models to a larger squad based gameplay of 15-30 models.

    Rambling Ramblers : Party Game
    There are three decks to choose cards from: Nouns, Adjectives and Verbs. Players will draw 10 cards from the deck of their choice. The cards have single words on the top and bottom, so depending on orientation of the card you have two choices. Player 1 creates a rambling sentence. There is a limited number of transitions available so if one player uses all "the" or "a" tokens then it makes it harder for other players. Game rounds have certain objectives and topics. The next player creates their own sentence or gets bonus points if they can successfully add it to the back of the first players sentence. This is being designed by my daughter and son who are learning about game design.


    First I apologize for the wait for a response from myself, I have been dealing with a few things that have come up over the last few days but they are now sorted out and I can reply in full.

    For game boxes I am more looking into the product box itself, and in these terms I am looking to produce one with a full artwork spread across it as the more higher end board games do with their own, like zombicide for example. So a full printing run would be required for the package product box. Good to know that their is this option in the market place of assembling yourself or having companies do this for you. shipping would be much more affordable to ship the unassembled products to us and then assemble them from here and to store them such, however this also would bring in the issue of ensuring we have all the equipment required to assemble the boxes and product. what have yourselves found is the best way to start for a new company? and yes we are a small starting up company and not a large company.

    Yes box sizes are important as well as we have heard from many companies, we would be going for the more popular square boxes as they are as you have said much easier to set up on shelves for retailers and are a standard shipping package size ( I will be checking soon with Canada post to see what the standard shipping sizes for such boxes are).

    For shipping and storage:

    Yes Fulfillment centers will only be used for our kickstarters to ensure we can give a guaranteed shipping rate and to be able to handle any large volume of orders that kickstarter usually brings. afterwise yes I agree local storage would be a better option , either in my living area or if I have to rent out a spot for them their are a few places I could do so. We are looking at 360 industries right now for manufacturing as it is done in the states and hence much closer to us up here than getting it done in China ( we also like to support local jobs and companies in north America and in Europe).

    We plan after our first product is off from kickstarter and all backers have received their product to go to major and local minor game shows to begin growing our fanbase more and selling our product through these events. Also to set up with several distributors within Canada, USA and eventually Europe who will of course help our product gain the attention of retailers. Also we would look into advertisements.

    As for shipping we would have to either for larger orders look at a fulfilment center or distribution center to move our products out, or for small orders we could ship from our local postal service.

    We would rather avoid working with amazon as they tend not to be very friendly with any company outside of the states on experience. so we would look for another company either closer like one we have found in vancover or another one across the border for sure, do you have any other suggestions?.

    Our game will defiantly have a solid amount of miniatures in it , along with tokens, a small rule book with the game scenarios, Item cards for players , several player character hardboard sheets with high quality artwork printouts along with enemy hardboard sheets, D20s and several tiles , we are still working out the rules and game mechanics but the overall shape and game has been solidified.

    thank you for your articles I will give them a solid reading through.

    One of my current concerns is material to produce the games miniatures in, plastic is a very poor material for miniatures and you have to really ensure the company that casts them has a good strong reputation, their is the guy who casts the PVC minis for zombicide and the current 7 sins board games, and these are the best PVC minis I have ever seen, however the issue is their shop is over in Hong Khon and this means shipping delays. I already know of the need to special sculptors to ensure the miniatures will turn out well in PVC , we would go with no one else but : http://monster-zer0.blogspot.ca/ . He has been great to work with ( a real shame our first kickstarter did not reach its goal for he would have produced some amazing sculpts) his experience with PVC is a great asset.

    However their is also Metal, yes we understand many board gamers may get very angry if we even mention metal , however we have a solid metal caster and have great experience with working in metal production. However the question is would it take off on kickstarter if we went this way? We have also heard PPs RPG board games minis had to be casted in PVC instead of metal due too distributors refusing to carry metal miniatures in their board games for some random reason, have you ever heard of this in the industry?

    interesting games to hear of I wish you continued success and good fortune thank you again for taking the time to inform me with so much valuable information.

    with best regards - everyone at Erebus studios


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 17:43:03


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


    Metal minis that you have to assemble is pretty much going to kill the interest from general board gamers

    (snap fit plastic might just be acceptable, but only if there are assembly is really really simple. They expect to open the box and play, not have to build stuff)

    Hobby shops may still carry the game (gamers and modellers will build good boardgame pieces), but it certainly won't escape into general toy/boardgame retail

    (and depending on where you plan to sell, and what the composition of your casting metal is you may get health and safely issues coming up eg lead even if it is a tiny proportion of the mix)

    Edit:

    Also to set up with several distributors within Canada, USA and eventually Europe who will of course help our product gain the attention of retailers.


    I'd say talk to the distributors even before you have your game done, they should be able to tell you if they'd handle stuff with metal in (and possibly how they think it would do in comparison with either plastic of whatever sort, or simple wooden meeples)


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 18:28:52


    Post by: Necros


    Not sure this will work for a board game sized box, but if you're looking for retail printed tuck boxes, these guys might work:

    http://www.yourboxsolution.com

    You can do short runs and they have a huge variety of box shapes and sizes to choose from. I haven't used them yet but I probably will one day. When I asked about prices they came out to a little over $1 each for 250, and then it gets cheaper if you print more than that. For my minis though I'm switching to clamshells that are a lot cheaper

    I use ShipNaked for my warehouse needs. I don't ship in big volumes, usually just a few orders a week that would be easy enough for me to handle myself, but I live in a 1 bedroom condo and just don't have the space to store everything. It's a lot easier for me to have everything in their warehouse, and if someone places an order in my online store I just forward the email to them and they pack it and ship it right away.

    If you're going for a board game though, I don't think metal minis are the way to go. Board gamers want cheapy plastic minis, where they just crack open the box and it's ready to play. Metal might be ok if it's optional, like the core game comes with pathfinder-esque cardstock pawns, and then you could sell minis separately for folks to collect. If you're going the Kickstarter route, I think you'll do better with a board game with PVC minis, metal mini campaigns just don't seem to do that well anymore. And if you go the boardgame route I think you might be better off with a company like Panda who will manufacture and shirnkwrap the whole thing and send it to you ready to sell so all you have to do is take it out of the box, which will make things a lot quicker and easier for fulfillment.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 19:50:42


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    The quality of minis boardgamers want has skyrocketed with the kickstarter scene pushing the envelope, cheaply plastic does not cut it easily these days.

    Panda is an odd beast I have heard a lot of bad things about them lately, still some swear by them, but the negativity is evident.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 19:55:19


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


    I think Panda does good work,

    but in their own timetable, not yours, all the while promising stuff will be done 'next week'

    so ok(ish) for a retail release where you can start publicity once it's in your hands, not nearly so good for a KS that probably run late anyway if you have to add 6 months to a year of unfulfilled promises of 'soon' to the backers


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 20:04:31


    Post by: Necros


    By cheapy plastic minis I meant PVC, like your typical CMON game where they spam you with plasticrack I don't think most board gamers would want model kits you have to build like 40k, and metal is too expensive? either way I think no matter what material they just have to be built and ready to play right out of the box if you want to attract more of a board gamer crowd.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 20:10:45


    Post by: chaos0xomega


    Yeah, while there has been a bit of a blurring of lines between the board gaming and miniatures/wargaming hobbies, its important to remember that the two are not the same market segment, and as consumers have very different desires and needs. I think this is something that many miniatures gamers in particular fail to understand when it comes to board gaming miniatures. They seem to expect minis with the quality and detail of something produced by GW, PP, CB, or Wyrd that they can paint up for display or what have you. Instead, what they receive is very high end board gaming minis which are on the low end for wargaming minis and get all huffy and puffy that they wont paint up nicely or cant be converted easily, etc.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 20:16:05


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Cmon and Sopapop miniatures are far from cheapy plastic,but now I understand what you mean, still the models they produce have quality and cannot be considered cheap.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/12 23:22:30


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Erebus Studios wrote:
    For game boxes I am more looking into the product box itself, and in these terms I am looking to produce one with a full artwork spread across it as the more higher end board games do with their own, like zombicide for example.
    I will honestly say 'Self Publishing' is not recommended or the best route to start out with. Although we have chosen that for some games ourselves, we also are working on getting others picked up with a publisher. If you are self publishing working with a company like Panda (there are others too) have a benefit because they can handle almost everything for you manufacturing.

    Since you are looking at doing Kickstarter a few questions I would ask myself before settling a game box as they can weigh in on your decision as they can effect the choice.
  • Is your Kickstarter box going to be different than the retail box?
  • Are stretch goals adding value to the retail box or extras for being a Kickstarter backer (ie they can be packed in a different box)?
  • Do you know what your final contents of the box are going be or is this still being decided?


  • Erebus Studios wrote:
    We would rather avoid working with amazon as they tend not to be very friendly with any company outside of the states on experience.
    Each Amazon company is a different experience with who you deal with. Amazon.ca (Canada), Amazon.com (US), Amazon.co.uk (UK) are all Amazon they are essentially different entities. You also have amazon from other countries, I would tend to stick to those three mainly because they speak English so communication is easier. Other than not knowing which forms or what is needed to be filled out with the different Amazons, I haven't had much of an issue. There are other fulfillment centers out there but it really is going to depend on how much you are shipping and to where.

    As for miniatures you need to ask yourself who your target market is going to be, board gamers, miniature gamers, painters and then focus on them. Since you are utilizing tiles then I'm assuming board gamers. If you are going board gamers then plastic is the best way to go. The bad part about plastic is the costs tend to put a base board game at a higher fund level requirement unless there is capital from another source. You could also start out with resin multi-part, then have a stretch goal be plastic one-piece (at the appropriate fund level) and then split off a miniatures only pledge then too.

    Personally if I had the option I would do plastic and resin/metal miniatures but that is just me. One of the main questions you'll get is "Will you have a miniatures only pledge". If they are plastic and not up to miniatures gamer specs then it can create some toxicity. By going with both you can still target board gamers, providing a game for them but then also provide a 'upgrade' path to better quality miniatures later as well as meeting miniature gamers specs with resin/metal miniatures.

    That doesn't mean metal miniatures can't be done as a board game. Human Interface shows that high quality metal miniatures can still draw people in. However they probably could have funded much more if they also had board game plastic miniatures as well. They also might not have, it is one of those "what if" that you have to follow the data. That doesn't mean just simply look at Dakka, look at what Board Game Geek (and other sources) have to say about games and miniatures as well. Dakka is mostly war gamers, with some that do play board games but ultimately we are all miniature gamers.

    Panda can do good work and as well as bad. Just don't accept the bad and push back. They did manufacture "The Doom That Came to Atlantic City" for Cryptozoic Entertainment. Like most oversea manufacturers in China, not just Panda, they will do it on their own timetable. Nothing will get done in January even if they promise it will. They will sometimes avoid or deflect questions by asking different questions or giving answers not to your question but you have to keep on it. There are advantages to going with companies that have experience and handle most of the manufacturing. I tend to try to find games that I like, then take a peak at who did their manufacturing. Don't get too stuck on trying to keep everything local because you can control delays better... in reality you can't, it just feels like it because the company is closer to home. In the end delays will happen, plan for them and then add another 20% of time on top of that.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/13 01:46:49


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I'm going to jump a bit to the beginning again, to the first game we were working on, Interstellar Crisis. At the time there wasn't any real spaceship miniatures games in the market other than Star Wars X-Wing. One of the disadvantage of self publishing and being the small guy is that you will always tend to be behind the curve. Long story short we didn't have the money to thrust it out quickly enough before other emerging games came out. Although for tabletop miniatures that usually isn't an issue, spaceship miniatures have an interesting niche.

    Game Outline

    The first step of designing a game is to figure out what you want it to do and accomplish, while remembering to not marry yourself to parts of it. That last part can be hard sometimes especially if you think a certain mechanic is key to the game. Even if you think it is a key to the game, remember to listen to other players because not everyone will think your same way. There will be some things you will want to keep and others you'd like to do, but if they bog it down too much don't be afraid to abstract them or remove them. You want gameplay usually to be fun, fluid and overall make sense. Think back to when you watch movies and ask yourself, "Why didn't they do this or instead do something else?" because the obvious reason was it was in the script. Sometimes just being in the script isn't a valid excuse when it causes gameplay to break down.

    Semi-Realistic Physics: We wanted the ships in space to not have movement like a plane or naval ship, only moving and shooting the direction they tend to face. We wanted them to be able to be moving one direction, while the ship faces a different direction and could fire. Some weapons are turret or arc facing so decisions on turning to defend a venerable armor section or bringing weapons to fire should be a choice. We wanted momentum to do something, apply too much thrust and fly off the board and effectively out of the theater of war.

    Double Blind System: Part of making the choices be more valuable was to have a blind movement. It was one of the things that can make games like X-Wing a lot of fun. The hard part was to utilize the movement we wanted while not letting other players know what moves you are making was a bit difficult. It couldn't simply be done with a dial. Although we did start with writing moves out, this created a process that would bog things down. The choices weren't as fast as they should be and harder for new players to grasp the mechanics.

    Card Movement Mechanics: We started first outlining what 'movement' choices were available to a person. What direction could they turn, how much thrust could they apply, could they roll the ship over (there is no real up in space). Once we figured out the different combinations we figured the best way to create a movement system was with cards. It gave a visual appearance for what the move was doing, making it easier to get visually have an idea of what you are doing. It let you plot a series of moves, while trying to predict what your opponent may do.

    Sensors: This was added more for advanced play. You don't simply look out the window in space to see what ships the enemy has. You don't immediately know which ship is the main threat at the beginning of battle. This will also let us add in decoys as well.

    Simultaneous Combat and Movement: There is a small bit of book keeping, so to speed things up we wanted movement to happen at the same time. Since the movement is locked in at the beginning, players can't change order of moves. Rather than have a player activate, the other player waiting, this lets both players activate and move their ships. In the event of collisions and or tie needing a resolution, initiative determines that piece for the order of events. Initiative though isn't a huge factor, shooting first doesn't mean the opponent can't respond and fire back. Destroyed ships aren't removed until the end of the game so there can almost always still be a response.

    Campaign System: We wanted the battles to have more of a meaning than just a skirmish game. It can be used as part of a bigger campaign system where battles can have an effect on things. You can play skirmish with objectives or campaign, which requires building ships, losing ships and planets (planetary control is done with the ground skirmish game).

    The Story

    Everything has to have a story, there needs to be a reason that everyone is fighting, without it then it could get kind of boring. The best lore and stories are often based on partial truths or some background in reality. We suspend reality in war games quite a bit but it becomes easier when that story has some real basis behind it. This is going to be a rough rundown, the timeline shows the progression better but this will give the basics.

    You don't want to be too exacting in science or explanations because there is always someone who will argue the 'reality' of things. Instead of Earth, it is Terra which means we can be an alternate world Earth that has some reality but doesn't have to be exact. Common problems we have today exist there but darker and more to the extremes. Society is split, pollution is high, crime is at highest, corporations partially control things from the background. There isn't enough space so the rich get to go higher, going to space to colonize. Prisons are overcrowded and become private funded, corporations using prisoners to mine asteroids in space. New undiscovered resources allow for better technology to be developed.

    There is a new space race as countries make new grab for land and resources in the frontiers of space. Technology includes cybernetics and bioware with a bit of a mutation of psionics. Gene-splicing becomes a thing along with cloning replacement organs. Terra becomes destroyed and then all hell breaks loose. The conflict consists of mostly humans, although with gene-slicing and cybernetics, human is a subjective term. There are a couple alien races that that mix in but ultimately it is about survival.

    To keep the nations and corporations in check a conglomerate took over some of the remaining ship factories. Part of the reason was out of neccessity as assaination of engineers and manufacturing plants, even civilians was starting to become common. At the rate of terrorism and destruction huamnity would have blown themselves back to the stoneage in only a few years. The other reason is there was plenty of profit in war. By declaring themselves neutral they could maintain, build a small army to protect the ship yards while keeping everyone else at bay all under the guise of goodwill.

    Design Process

    We had the who, what, where answers mostly done. Ultimately we knew where in the timeline of events we were, just needed to fill the spaces with events that led there. We had the basics for the gameplay that we wanted. Now the core crunch of the game was the mechanics. We created a list of everything a player could essentially do in the game, in no particular order:

  • Fighters vs Fighters
  • Ships and Fighter Screening Other Ships.
  • Ship Movement Orders
  • Initiative Roll
  • Use Sensors
  • Launch Fighter Squadrons
  • Launch Torpedos/Missiles
  • Move Ships
  • Fighter Attacks
  • Point Defense
  • Ship Attacks
  • Damage
  • Critical Check
  • Removed Destroyed Ships
  • Repair Teams

  • The list was actually larger than that. Some things got removed and booted back to planning, while other things were just removed. Now it was a matter of figuring out the order of events. At this point we have some of the basic ships and weapons done. As we do more testing though the list above can change slightly. Originally we didn't have Torpedos and Missiles. In today's world for the type of distance battles we are talking about they would almost be considered drones so they should be in the game. Not all nations though would have complete control over them so some might just go towards an initially pre-plotted course, while another ship might have more advanced missiles that they could alter the course midflight. Obviously the above was a bit confusing, even after you've started to develop and order of events.

    Phase 1 - Planning
  • Ship Movement Orders
  • Determine Initiative
  • Utilize Sensors

  • Phase 2 - Movement
  • Launch and/or Move Fighter Squadrons
  • Launch and/or Move Torpedo/Missiles
  • Move Ships, based on movement orders already established in Phase 1.
  • Fighter Squadrons Declare Attack Runs

  • Phase 3 - Attack
  • Fighter vs Fighter combat resolved
  • Ship Point Defense vs Fighters
  • Finalize Fighter Attack Runs, remaining fighters attack
  • Ships Open Fire

  • Phase 4 - Resolution
  • Damage is now finalized, it was recorded but finalized means we determine if a ship is destroyed or if there are critical checks that need to be made.
  • Remove Destroyed Ships
  • Dispatch and Resolve Repair Teams, repairing ship systems/weapons.

  • Now that we've broken things up into more manageable phases it makes testing easier. We can test each phase seperately by itself as well as combined with the other phases. Each time we ask some questions of ourselves but also players who test the system. The questions might change depending on who was testing and what we were accomplishing. Sometimes we would add some mechanics or move things around to ensure that it fit at the point of combat it happened.

    Did everything in that Phase make sense?
    Did something feel out of place, if so what and why?
    Did you think that the Phase gameplay flowed properly?
    Did you think something should happen at a different Phase and why?
    What did you enjoy?
    What didn't you enjoy?

    The order of events as well as what we could do is based on multiple things. Some of it is based on actual battle plans and strategies, part is based on "what would you do" and the rest comes from visualizing the actual combat.

  • Contact made with enemy, need to plan and determine fleet orders.
  • Choose to utilize sensors, using them too soon also identifies your ship to them when you turn active. Do you risk that now or later.
  • Do you have fighter squadrons and missiles, are you launching them?
  • Ships and fighters move.
  • Fighting happens, ships fire, fighters attack.
  • Sit Rep, damage report and dispatch repair teams.


  • Then the hard design decisions have to start to be made. How long do you want your games to last, do they make that mark or go over. Do abstract some things or keep them more realistic? For example fighters, missiles aren't typically fire and forget. They could technically be completely removed from gameplay and the game itself wouldn't suffer miserably. You could also simply combine missiles with the rest of the weapon firing phase instead of being seperate. We have played both ways and are still in testing phases. We have been leaning towards two types of gameplay, Basic and Advanced where basic those items are part of the firing resolution. Advanced is a more option environment after you've learned the basics, that gives the best of both worlds.

    I'll go into more detail on each phase as well as the lore with the factions a bit later. Next post will probably focus a bit on the ship model designs we did, why we ended up going modular and how much we spent on the 3D sculpting was on them so far.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/13 22:29:19


    Post by: Dark Severance


    When we first started getting artwork and 3d sculpting done the capital was coming from me. I am working another full time job because I have a family and house to support, so any side money went towards the business at this time. I did initially attempt to get a small business loan for about $10,000 for initial startup capital but that isn't easy, at least for what we wanted to do. We could have gone to Kickstarter but I knew at that point we had nothing but concepts to offer, there was no way that would have been successful. In business usually in order to make money you have to be willing to put money up front, it also helps show that you believe and invested in your product. That meant funding everything from my own pockets for now. After I sent out emails out, based on portfolios, there were four 3D sculptors that I was going to work with. The unfortunate part is none of them had 3D sculpting experience when designing with 3D printing in mind. Fortunately I had a partner who was helping out on my team that I was able to utilize his skills. Like me he is working full time and basically working for free at this point. We could have gone with someone more experienced but then our initial costs would have been 3-4 times more based off the initial quotes. That meant going with less experienced sculptors because we knew we could always go back later and touch or modify things as needed later. These were never meant to be the final versions and we plan to rework the designs but first we need samples to generate some funding.

    We wanted all the ship pieces to be modular. This was at first mainly for design reasons since it would be easier to modify or create ships basically like using lego blocks. That mean each section of the ships were their own pieces from the wing sections, bridge, some weapons, engines letting them be able to be moved around. This helped make it so future ship designs from a faction would look similar to other designs. It also meant we could take pieces, move, duplicate and create non-standard designs. There was definitely a lot of different styles that we went through based on what we had created. This was the initial batch we settled on for the first pass.
    Spoiler:






    Another reason for using different designers was we weren't sure who could become a "go-to" person. We had no experience with these people and sometimes people just don't get along. We wanted to make sure that the people we worked with had a similar vision, could understand what we were saying and trying to do. That isn't easy to do over phone and emails. So we'd start with one design, if the experience was good we'd move up from there. Eventually we wanted to pick one or two people to do touch-up and continue working with based on how well they did on this first pass. Some were easier to work with than others, there was a language barrier with a couple, but overall they all weren't that bad. Utilizing different people also meant I could spread out the work, depending on their timeline because rarely is an artist available "now" so your job is usually in a queue. This let us balance out what funds were going out so it wasn't just one lump some and made it easier to manage.

    At this point there was mixed feedback on the designs. We wanted to try to keep the ship pieces to a minimum but due to the designs so that would require us to cut them up a bit. We also needed something more to make the ships a bit more unique or have some reason that others may want, other than just the rules system. Miniature gamers are already used to mult-piece kits so we decided that we would make the ships more modular. At this time this change wasn't going to effect gameplay, it was purely a cosmetic change. It would allow players to create their own custom style of ships not only for our game but for other games as well, which we figured would be more of a benefit. There would also be some reality that some ships may be pieced together as time progressed, at least for smaller factions and pirates. This would become an abstracted part though since it wasn't going to effect combat. The decision to have not effect combat was because it is harder to do a "What You See Is What You Get" (WYSIWYG) with spaceship designs and weapons. With tanks and troops it was a bit easier but a lot of weapons for the ships were internal, with ports that would open.
    Spoiler:

    For all the 3D digital work for the ships we ended up paying $1266, give or take some dollars for conversion rates as they have changed now. After some touch up and ensuring we could print them, then we needed to cut them up for printing. We didn't get them all 3D printed as it could start to get costly but we did do a few spending $450 for what we did get.

    While we were waiting to hear back from two of the test groups testing out rules and for sculpting to be done, there isn't a lot to be done. There is lore writing and other planning for the game but for the most part designwise things are on hold. I wanted that time to be productive and also wanted to work with some traditional sculpting so decided to have some greens done traditionally for the 32mm miniatures we wanted to create.
    Spoiler:

    We decided to have two batches of three done initially and reached out to some sculptors. We needed to put 20% down to start with £45.00. Once they were completed it was another £180.00 plus £12.00. Similar to the digital sculptor we were working with two different sculptors to find one that would match closer to what we were looking for. The second batch of three cost $400 which required us to pay a deposit of $140 to start work.
    Spoiler:



    There are aspects that I do like about greens vs digital but keeping things uniformed becomes a bit harder unless your dealing with the same person. Granted that has to do with who we also used, some of it was limited by we had limited artwork at that time. The artwork we had that these are based on were just front shots, not side shots, no other concept art so most of the translation is required on the sculptor side of things.
    Spoiler:

    The decision to try to stay fully digital didn't actually happen until we went to get our first set of masters cast. There required some modifications to the greens to get them properly cut up for casting. They actually required more work than the 3D prints we had. Some of that is mitigated again by different sculptors but our options at the time were limited.

    To create the masters for metal casting we needed to have miniatures masters created from the 3D prints and greens we had. There were multiple ship pieces that were 3d printed, only about 4 different designs and some greens (6 28mm) done for infantry for ground combat game. All together they filled 3 master molds, requiring 17 cavities, the greens took up 13 cavities. That let's us get multiple master pieces used for production casting, each design filling a complete mold by itself. That also includes 4 copies of each sent for our copies. The master molds were $60 (3x$60=$180) plus $30 (30x$30=$900) per cavity and was a total of $1080.
    Spoiler:






    Now before we've done any production, we're just in concept, design and prototyping stage we've already sunk a hefty chunk into things. After artwork, 3d sculpting, greens and casting masters we've spent $5923 give or take a couple hundred after currency conversions.
    Spoiler:



    The whole process above was about a 12 month period for everything. Most of the artwork and 3D sculpting had maybe one month delay (queue) and was finished fairly quickly. The longest delay was the casting the masters. When we sent them off it took almost two months to get modified properly for casting, another two months before I finally received the master samples back from them. That was after I sent it and it was with them for another two months, total time six months. Granted this was a couple months for GenCon and I know there was a scramble to get a lot of things cast for it from other clients and for themselves.

    The whole 12 month period wasn't spent solely on one game. There are waiting periods and to be productive we worked on other games and projects. We worked on some game designs with the idea to get them picked up by a publisher vs self publishing. Some games ideas were developed to a point where it needed to be put on hold. We didn't want to get spread too thin so when it came time for artwork or actual pieces, other than printing cards, we had to make a decision to continue to hold off. We took the time to get our process down for resin casting, using resin kits and various miniatures for testing. When we first started we only had the vacuum pump and not a pressure pot, then later added that to get to where we are today. We weren't going to do the initial production run, but after that we wanted to be able to continue casting in-house vs having to do another production order with someone else.
    Spoiler:

    Test Casting, not for resale.

    This is where we'll probably be jumping around a bit since a lot of the work wasn't linear. We didn't just work on one design from start to finish. I'll try to keep each post based around their specific games then I can create an index on the original post for easier navigation for those interested in certain games more than others.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/13 22:46:58


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


    I like the ships, especially the 2nd/4th & 6th designs,

    Talking about uniformity for traditionally sculpted stuff, one of the most jarring things to see is weapons & other kit that you'd expect to be uniform not looking quite the same between figures,

    I've seen two approaches to avoid this (other than using uber high end sculptors who can produce uniform results)

    either make sure only 1 mini in the game has the 'super lazer blasta', or alternatively make some resin cast of the first 'super lazer blasta' the sculptor does and send them back to them to use with any future figures (worth doing with helmets and similar stuff too) even though it adds a bit to the sculpting time

    You don't notice differences in the flesh/cloth/height so much as those vary in real life, but the brain really expects mass produced stuff to look the same


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/15 18:00:19


    Post by: weeble1000


    This has been an interesting look at a particular philosophy of bringing a table top game to market. Lots of good info.

    My experience thus far has been a bit different, largely because we rejected the idea of crowfunding very early on.

    Principally, I really didn't like the risks involved. You can do a lot of things, or even most things, 'right' and still wind up with a failed campaign. The idea of a failed campaign did not sit well with me at all.

    Kickstarter can be a major help to a startup business, but it can also put a few nails in your coffin, even after a successful campaign. For me, Kickstarter is a big gamble, and it is a high stakes game for a brand new company. Kickstarter provides a great potential for success, but also tends to maximize the risk of catastrophic harm. I don't like to gamble.

    So we had to switch gears. We have gone towards a format of aggressive risk management. For us, this means maintaining tight control over production and minimal stock levels, which means bringing absolutely everything we can in house. Our goal is to remain as nimble as possible while still allowing us to make the product that we want to make. Rather than the 'go big or go home' philosophy of crowdfunding, we have chosen to build a strong foundation, start small, focus on developing a modest core of high value customers, and then grow slowly.

    Obviously, this has led us to make plenty of tough choices. We have thus far had to balance what we want to do with what we can do. And even so, we're taking more risks and funneling more money into the company than some of the more conservative folks in the market would advise. Again, we have tried to balance the product we want to make with the product we are able to make within our operating philosophy.

    In terms of production, this means spincast pewter. It is simply the most cost-effective and flexible manufacturing process. Production is swift and the material is highly fungible. Miscasts get turned into merchantable goods. Products that are not selling get turned into product that are selling. We can keep stock levels low and can be in a position to shift rapidly in response to how our products function in the market.

    Spincast pewter also gives us the capacity to respond fluidly to customer requests, and the equipment can be used to manufacture a wide variety of products both within and outside the table top games market.

    We also invested in a CNC mill, again because it is a highly flexible means of production. We wanted to cut down printed materials as much as possible, which meant either a laser engraver or a CNC mill. Ultimately, we felt that laser engraving is more expensive to operate and less flexible than a mill. Laser engraving is also a highly competitive niche in the table top games market, whereas few companies are milling products.

    Compared to many expenses, the cost of spin casting and mill equipment was a fairly modest, far less than artistic assets. We would love to expand into 3D printing at some point, but in the short term, high quality 3D printing is not worth the investment in money and time.

    With this as a baseline, we had to match our product to our means of production. And in my view, this is where tough choices have to be made.

    For example, as folks have mentioned already, spincast pewter is a limiting factor in terms of what markets you are going to be able to reach most effectively. But we are invested in spincat pewter. Our models will be spincast pewter. So how do you match your manufacturing capacity to your target customer?

    Part of this involves adapting your target customer to match your manufacturing capacity. But in my view gamers tend to be pretty flexible. With creative product design, I believe that you can give yourself plenty of room to challenge expectations and pre-conceived biases.

    For example, we want our products to be an out-of-the-box experience. Ideally, this would involve high quality pre-assembled plastics, e.g. CMoN and FFG. We can't do that because we simply do not have the capacity. But what are the most important elements of that out-of-the-box experience, in terms of the miniatures?

    Engaging, high quality models and zero assembly, right? We can easily do both of those with spincast pewter. We need a product that is cast in a single piece with a full-sized, integral base, minimal part lines and no flashing. No problem. Now the only difference is a weighty metal game piece versus a flexible plastic game piece. Is that really going to be a deal breaker? We will obviously find out once our products are released, but I do not think it will be.

    There's always a trade-off, of course. What do you lose with a product format like this? You lose some ability to customize the model. But who are the people customizing their models in the first place? Are these individuals who see no value in an out-of-the-box product? Are these individuals who are unwilling to do a little cutting, drilling, and sawing to get the model they want?

    Is there a way that we can engage the interests such customers might enjoy without taking away from the fundamentals of the product design? Absolutely. Again, in house production allows a great deal of flexibility. We can easily include attractive conversion bits with a product, such as variant heads, hand swaps, and base detailing. We can design products to facilitate simple, expedient cuts to high value areas and leave minimal attachment points to integral bases. We can even do exclusive production runs of our own conversions with minimal expense.

    In short, how can we serve an interest and tap a broader segment of the market with minimal expense? One example that always comes to mind are the 'Resin Master' products sold be Hasslefree Miniatures. HF masters sculpts in resin prior to pewter production, which incidentally makes damn good sense. While metal production is pending, HF makes available a limited run of resin masters for a premium price. Once the mold is dead, no more resin masters.

    This gives HF a product with the high fidelity of a resin master, the value perception attached to resin, exclusivity, and early availability. All without doing much more than HF was already doing in order to create its traditional metal miniature. It allows HF to tap a broader market with minimal expense.

    Again, I think one must strive to appreciate what customers are looking for, and then figure out how to provide that within the means at your disposal. That said, it is also my personal goal to give customers something that they are not expecting, and that's what I think makes a really great product.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/15 21:05:54


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    I am really interested in what games are you designing?

    From a boardgmaes perspective the pewter miniatures will affect weight, but only if there are a ton of models.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/16 01:15:07


    Post by: Dark Severance


     OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
    Talking about uniformity for traditionally sculpted stuff, one of the most jarring things to see is weapons & other kit that you'd expect to be uniform not looking quite the same between figures,
    We started going back to concept art and artists for this reason. Originally with the small group I was working with, we were skipping the concept art step and going straight to modeling. With ships it was easier and since the team had an idea of what was being made, they started to create it. The issue is some of the designs were too generic, some of that was lack of experience, most of them are good at sculpting but requiring something to go from. They weren't use to creating it from scratch. The idea was to skip that initial step temporarily to get miniatures to sell, then start revisiting it. That was unfortunately a mistake to some degree but solved when we shifted to creating miniatures that weren't ships.

    We started to go through the Lore, start setting out certain attributes, quirks to factions and started to really identify the factions as individuals. The artwork became important to give more visual as well as to help direct the sculpting. We're regoing through the weapon systems from the ships to the infantry, setting up how we want them to look and then we'll get those created. That way we can ensure to keep that uniformity, but then rely on other attributes from colors, clothing, enhancements to individually the factions. For most parts we want the weapons based on similar modern weapons but there might be some small different variants.

    weeble1000 wrote:
    Kickstarter can be a major help to a startup business, but it can also put a few nails in your coffin, even after a successful campaign. For me, Kickstarter is a big gamble, and it is a high stakes game for a brand new company. Kickstarter provides a great potential for success, but also tends to maximize the risk of catastrophic harm. I don't like to gamble.

    Rather than the 'go big or go home' philosophy of crowdfunding, we have chosen to build a strong foundation, start small, focus on developing a modest core of high value customers, and then grow slowly.
    Kickstarter definitely is not for everyone. I am not sure how it would be considered a gamble though, properly done right there aren't any high stakes for it. It unfortunately has grown to where people think you have to make it big to or one shot to be successful however it can be done with smaller, focused campaigns set on certain objectives. If you enter into as a philosophy of go big or go home, then I could see how it could be considered a negative. There is no reason though someone do small kickstarters centered on foundation, creating a core of value customers and growing slowly either.

    Spincasting was definitely the first route we considered for some of the similar reasons you stated. The only issue was we didn't have the money at the time for one or access. That is still something we want to eventually get. From the prop and cosplay work that I did I already had the setup for resin casting. It took longer from our initial run of metal miniatures from our first test run than I would have liked. Ideally we wanted to get a run of metal miniatures then use the money from those sales to purchase a spin caster to do our own. I'm not sure if it was because metal prices went up, it was above our initial estimate, or because of who we were working with at the time in the US. After getting the quotes for the second run we found it was 50% cheaper for us to go with overseas to EU and resin casting. The added advantage since we are already setup for casting, we can cast additional and future items when needed.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/16 01:21:40


    Post by: weeble1000


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    I am really interested in what games are you designing?

    From a boardgmaes perspective the pewter miniatures will affect weight, but only if there are a ton of models.


    You will be able to find out all about it pretty soon. Our social media launches in a few weeks .

    Model count is really low in the game, and product format is closer to X-Wing or Descent.

    The game is a Miniatures Role-playing Game. Players only need one model, and the GM usually only needs around 5-8 models.

    Our two primary product types are essentially 'class' packs and 'modules' sets. If you want to play a particular character type, you buy a set with two models representing iconic characters of that type and all of the cards, tokens, and materials for that type of character. Campaign sets give you a set of bad guy models, cards and materials, and a set of narrative scenarios featuring the bad guys.

    There's more to it than that, but model count is really low. We are actually using wooden boxes, which is a win/win/win scenario. Wooden boxes are not much more expensive than printed boxes, fungible, and provide great value to the customer because you don't just throw it away. Your character can live in the box and there's plenty of extra room for new cards, extra tokens, and such.

    We mill the product details into the box, so a pallet of 1,000 boxes can be packaging for any product in a given set of categories. We don't have to pay for 250 boxes for character type A and hope we sell that many. We also get to lump units expected for a dozen different products into a single bulk order, rather than bumping into MOQs for each product. Plus, a wooden box feels more spendy than a cardboard box, and we can even customize boxes to customer specs if somebody wants something special or unique.

    With all of those advantages, I could give a crap about weight, honestly.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/16 02:26:58


    Post by: Erebus Studios


    Spoiler:
     Dark Severance wrote:
    Erebus Studios wrote:
    For game boxes I am more looking into the product box itself, and in these terms I am looking to produce one with a full artwork spread across it as the more higher end board games do with their own, like zombicide for example.
    I will honestly say 'Self Publishing' is not recommended or the best route to start out with. Although we have chosen that for some games ourselves, we also are working on getting others picked up with a publisher. If you are self publishing working with a company like Panda (there are others too) have a benefit because they can handle almost everything for you manufacturing.

    Since you are looking at doing Kickstarter a few questions I would ask myself before settling a game box as they can weigh in on your decision as they can effect the choice.
  • Is your Kickstarter box going to be different than the retail box?
  • Are stretch goals adding value to the retail box or extras for being a Kickstarter backer (ie they can be packed in a different box)?
  • Do you know what your final contents of the box are going be or is this still being decided?


  • Erebus Studios wrote:
    We would rather avoid working with amazon as they tend not to be very friendly with any company outside of the states on experience.
    Each Amazon company is a different experience with who you deal with. Amazon.ca (Canada), Amazon.com (US), Amazon.co.uk (UK) are all Amazon they are essentially different entities. You also have amazon from other countries, I would tend to stick to those three mainly because they speak English so communication is easier. Other than not knowing which forms or what is needed to be filled out with the different Amazons, I haven't had much of an issue. There are other fulfillment centers out there but it really is going to depend on how much you are shipping and to where.

    As for miniatures you need to ask yourself who your target market is going to be, board gamers, miniature gamers, painters and then focus on them. Since you are utilizing tiles then I'm assuming board gamers. If you are going board gamers then plastic is the best way to go. The bad part about plastic is the costs tend to put a base board game at a higher fund level requirement unless there is capital from another source. You could also start out with resin multi-part, then have a stretch goal be plastic one-piece (at the appropriate fund level) and then split off a miniatures only pledge then too.

    Personally if I had the option I would do plastic and resin/metal miniatures but that is just me. One of the main questions you'll get is "Will you have a miniatures only pledge". If they are plastic and not up to miniatures gamer specs then it can create some toxicity. By going with both you can still target board gamers, providing a game for them but then also provide a 'upgrade' path to better quality miniatures later as well as meeting miniature gamers specs with resin/metal miniatures.

    That doesn't mean metal miniatures can't be done as a board game. Human Interface shows that high quality metal miniatures can still draw people in. However they probably could have funded much more if they also had board game plastic miniatures as well. They also might not have, it is one of those "what if" that you have to follow the data. That doesn't mean just simply look at Dakka, look at what Board Game Geek (and other sources) have to say about games and miniatures as well. Dakka is mostly war gamers, with some that do play board games but ultimately we are all miniature gamers.

    Panda can do good work and as well as bad. Just don't accept the bad and push back. They did manufacture "The Doom That Came to Atlantic City" for Cryptozoic Entertainment. Like most oversea manufacturers in China, not just Panda, they will do it on their own timetable. Nothing will get done in January even if they promise it will. They will sometimes avoid or deflect questions by asking different questions or giving answers not to your question but you have to keep on it. There are advantages to going with companies that have experience and handle most of the manufacturing. I tend to try to find games that I like, then take a peak at who did their manufacturing. Don't get too stuck on trying to keep everything local because you can control delays better... in reality you can't, it just feels like it because the company is closer to home. In the end delays will happen, plan for them and then add another 20% of time on top of that. [/quote
    ]

    We would of course be going through a manufacturer for our product, the game and setting we are working on would not be something we would want to have another company produce because we would lose the licence for the IP were building and you receive very little income from doing so, so starting up it is best in our eyes to be a publishing company and produce our own game fully.

    We will be contacting soon these three top manufacturers:

    Panda Games of course are one of these,

    http://360manufacturingservices.com/ , are right south of us in the states, and have some great services, and an astounding set up with no demanded print run total unlike panda games. This really is enticing for us as we could order what we need for stock in reasonable amounts too our needs, potentially storing a small amount here and then the rest with our shipper / distributor ( which someone mentions " ship naked" who we are going too look into being our shipper).

    http://www.wingogames.com/game-accessories - is the other company we are looking into as they have been apart of some great games and are the only ones who show on their page their miniature castings.

    - My biggest concerns however are ensuring the PVC miniature casting is of a fair quality ( I am however quite aware of the realism of aiming for the board gaming market and knowing that our miniatures in the game will be with less detail than any metal or resin casting, that is just the nature of plastic. to make this up we do plan on having a kickstarter pledge that will come with a full pack of the miniatures in limited resin).

    I will aim for the kickstarter box to be the same as the retail version, with kickstarter exclusive items coming in its own unique separate box. I know board gamers would like to carry everything in one box but with kickstarter exclusives this would then end up being wasted space in the retail box which is not a very sensible thing to do.

    a few tweaks are still being worked on in the game, so we do not yet have a full box design set up which is why we are still holding on contacting any of the manufactures above.

    Yes I agree with the miniatures path and this is what we exactly plan to do, giving board game plastic miniatures board gamers expect and then having a higher quality version of each sculpt that will be sold at a discount for the campaign and then after at their normal price. the pure miniatures pledge will be delivered fairly fast to our backers as we will be working with our long time casters and through them we can get the casts quickly shipped out to our backers.

    amazon still is fairly hard to work with demanding a lot of the UPS codes and we have heard nothing but bad experiences from those up here who had to work with them. the fact that kickstarter has finally dropped them and opened up with a much more friendly company for their credit Is the reason we are excited about going on kickstarter instead of dreading the paper work .

    However all in all, I am very confident that our games setting is unique enough along with good solid but straight forward and ease of play rules will be a game that many gamers from board gaming to table top will enjoy playing.

    thank you again for your advice and input I greatly appreciate you taking the time to give us you thoughts and suggestions.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/17 00:06:56


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Creating Conflict and Faction Backgrounds

    Ultimately wargames and miniatures games are about conflict, battles and war. All conflicts to make them more engaging should have a good story to accompany them. Ultimately we wanted the struggle to be humanity's dark struggle not only with themselves, barbaric nature but a the time same time have that light of perseverance and overcoming difficult choices. Eventually there will probably be space dwarves and elves but we didn't want to go down that route. We knew we'd need to introduce a couple alien races to throw a mix of different type of models, abilities into the game but for now we were skipping the typical types.

    The timeline starts during our current time because it is easy to see our current world affairs in a darker shade without too much hyperbole. The actual game though will take place thousands of years later but today's world would be the building blocks.

    Although we are starting on Earth, in our solar system and galaxy, it isn't Earth so the name is Terra so we can differentiate an alternate universe. One reason was as we started talking about planets, the galaxy, we found there is always someone who will bring hard science into the discussion. We realize that planet M388 isn't suitable for a colony or isn't even a planet but that was where Outpost ABC. I know that is funny since we're creating a science fiction universe but it is always the first comments when you start naming planets, locations someone will start going into hard science. That in itself is fine too but we're not hard scientists or engineers, so it gave us a bigger creative license. We could have redone the whole galaxy, not have it based in ours and it is still a possibility but for now Earth is Terra.

    In the current timeline that the game takes place in the year 5318, Terra is gone but the basic foundation for the factions still starts from there. There are seven continents: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Europe, Australia and Antarctica. We settled on starting out with 3-4 factions with a possible 5th faction being Mercenary, ragtag remnants so we needed to do some rearranging. Utilizing a unique science system and process of elimination (we rolled dice) we eliminated a few places due to natural and unnatural disasters.

    To further destabilize the world there would have been a World War III, which resulted in South America and parts of Africa to be become wastelands, declaring them disaster and certain areas quarantine zones. There also needed another event which could cause hate/distrust to shift from countries and racism to a new target. Psions started to appear, those humans who had psionic abilities. They aren't Marvel/DC superpowers type abilities, but the usual psionic abilities from telepathy, empathy, telekinesis and a few others. Paranoia and hate shifted from typical racism/hate of humans towards humans hate towards those that are different Psions. Some countries looking for registration, others forbidding them in their borders. Financial crisis, pollution, distrust, hate, racism and a world that could not longer sustain a population is what served as the foundation to drive people to space.

    It started with the rich and corporations, first with a moon base and space station for the privileged away from the riff raft of the world. With prisons over crowded, there was a need to switch to them being managed by private corporations. One Corporation pioneering the industry by moving operations to space to mine asteroids, they utilized a work force of prisoners. Security was easier since there wasn't many places for them to run to in space but let them mine needed and discover new minerals and resources. This led to breakthroughs in science and engineering, development of the Mars colony and deeper space exploration, starting with finding a new Terra type planet for colonization.

    United Republic
    Mostly started with America and Russia, becoming the first corporate nation. Police forces were overtasked, private security become the norm. It was easier and more efficient to build corporate communities and towers, where workers would live, work and have recreations all safely guarded by security. Hard work was rewarded with priveledges, citizenship requiring working and productive members of society while those who didn't became second class citzens. They become the embodiment of humanity. Altered humans, psionics, cyborgs, those that were different weren't exactly welcomed. As long as you looked human, contributed then it was a very good life with great benefits for you and on your family. It is rumored they do have psionics working for them but they value themselves as the last of the true humans.

    EuroAsain Coalition
    Mostly comprised of Europe and Asia. With psionics emerging more the Church took a unique stance by welcoming those with gifts, they considered them a sign of progression. Most religions combined in favor of focusing on what their similarities were instead of differences. There is some speculation on the reasons but nothing conclusive. Europe became a beacon for the gifted who were in-scripted to work for the Church. Similar to how the Corporations backed and saved the economy for the United Republic, they saved EuroAsia's economy. This was also the start of what would cause a civil war, fracturing them in later years. A portion of Asia was on the cutting edge of cybernetics, which had a negative effect on those who had psionic abilities, the enhancements suppressing or removing the abilities. They were close to developing a process to fully transfer the consciousness to a cyberframe. While they were at war with the United Republic, keeping them at bay and from taking the majority of the better planets, they were quite powerful.

    Europa Confederation: EuroAsian Coalition hundreds of years later ends up having a civil war splintering them. No longer at war with the United Republic, factions and views became more centralized as well as opinions. The church believed that psionics was the next step to human evolution and cybernization stunted that growth, while others believed that shedding a frail body for a more rugged cyberframe was the next step. The royal family being Psions along with the Church, from the ashes of the civil war, created the Europa Confederation.

    Shingen Empire
    Those believing that cybernization is the next step for humanity created the Shingen Empire. By that time they developed a process to fully transfer the consciousness to a cyberframe. There are surprisingly quite a few non-cybernized humans in the empire, some partial cybernetics or almost pure human. There are a few duties that it is better to have a human around. Rumor has it some of them have psioinic abilities since the cybernization process destroys all psionic abilities. Humans are grown or born and taken care of until they are 16 when they make a choice to become cyberized or have a different path, it is always a choice. The trauma of the process can unfortunately cause some psychological side effects. This can be from complete personality changes to increased aggression but for the most part they remain unchanged. A backup is created so if they died, they could be recreated, providing the storage matrix aren't destroyed.

    Federated Commonwealth
    Australia for the most part was by itself and left alone. They didn't quite have the technological advances or economy as the other nations, but their country was the least effected by the effects of prolonged war. During the space race they were able to stay under the radar moving deeper into space to founded six planets.

    Anazi Dynasty
    Large parts of Africa was considered quarantined zones due to radiation and effects of new weapons in the war. The conditions and environment were the harshest and they didn't have the resources or technology to deal with them. They did have a strong scientific and medically advanced technology thanks to the Anasazi Corporation. They were outlawed from many countries since their techniques were considered inhumane but they didn't lack in volunteers anymore, since many would have done anything for a better life. This allowed them to lead to breakthroughs in genesplicing, genetic manipulation and bioware. They were able to make modifications which made surviving in the conditions they lived easier. Those gentic maniuplations would have far reaching effects hundreds of years later. At the time of implementation they were able to control what genes and aspects were spliced into a human. Generations of births, when a child was conceived it started to pull from this genetic pool because once integrated, those genes were part of them and passed to their offspring. Some mutations were small cat ears, tail, while others were more known antlike eyes, hardened skin, and even extra limbs.

    We didn't make the choice to start with the United Republic, despite them being the largest and most powerful faction. They were future humans and we hope the designs we have chosen will help them be unique, but overall they are still generic human soldiers. There are two alien races that get introduced the Char'iza (lizard, alligator, crocodile humanoid race) and Faenril (humanoid mammillion and avian races, catlike people, bird, ferrets, etc) that are sprinkled through the factions, some more heavily than others. The choice was to start with the Anazi Dynasty because to make up for the weaker tech, they had some interesting mechanics and abilities. They contained muntants, humans but due to distrust other factions don't have a lot of information on them. They don't live on planets that other factions would find pleasant. They do have a 'human' looking representative that does importing, exporting for them but for the most part they play up the fact they are monsters and mutants. Even those who are human have masks with horns or optics to create glowing eyes to feed and play on the fact they aren't normal.

    The main scouts are light armored soldiers. There was some experiments with Egyptian styles with a mix of Arabic. We settled with the pants from F, upper body part of D, head from C.


    The second pass went through more refinement. There were also some widely different designs thrown in to push the boundaries. Settling on a style similar to I.


    Then we started to experiment with color pallette. They were mostly desert and rocky environments, so earth tones for blending into terrain.


    We tried to create a set of armor that would allow legs/arms to be used for both male and female. Although we got close, ultimately there is a slight difference in builds, shapes so we decied to go with seperate models for them. We did want to provide alternate head as an option as well.



    Faction Play Styles

    There is a slight rock, paper, scissors style between the different factions. The idea is that you can't be equipped for every situation and battle. You have the option to equip yourself to handle most situations and being dynamic, or focusing on your strengths. It isn't simply about beating a force, so although being rock against paper works in favor for rock, it isn't an autowin. Game play is objective base, there are 1-2 public objectives to create areas that battle tends to center around. There are also a couple private objectives which your opponents do not know, which can be used to generate victory points. You also get points for defeating opponents but the most points come from achieving your objectives. Even though paper is at a disadvantage against rock, achieving the objectives could be more in favor of papers abilities. There are also Heroes and Mercenaries which are used augment weaknesses and possibly altering the play style of a faction. Troops have a base cost and weapons kit, for increased points you can modify their weapons.

    United Republic (scissors) being the strongest and largest force have better weapons, better trained troops and are more accurate. They are a mostly human faction but considered a jack of trades, the basic sci-fi modern military force with access to power armor. They set the average when it comes to cost, their weapons upgrades being cheaper in points compared to other factions. Their basic troops and fireteams do not have access to psionic upgrades. They do have access to some heroes who can have access psionic abilities at a higher point cost.

    Europa Confederation (paper) being second largest have access to similar weapons at a slight increased cost but they also have access to troops with psionic abilities. This changes the ability for movement making it easier to traverse terrain or climb to higher places, allowing possible rerolls for their own bad rolls or forcing the opponent to reroll a success but that comes at a cost of points and risk. The risk gambling on rerolls or being on a play field with terrain to take advantage of properly. Their fireteams have access to psionic upgrades which can help fill in the gaps and weaknesses.

    Shingen Empire (rock) have access to more defensive units, their rail guns can be devastating but requires them to spend extra action to dig in for stability. Some units have auto repair ability which can get them back in the fight, if they aren't completely taken down. Their basic troops have access to heavy weapons, not requiring the need of heavy support troops to utilize them like the other factions. They do not have access to psionic abilities which can cause issues for their soldiers.

    Federated Commonwealth utilizes cavalry to strike fast, capture objectives and fade away. Unlike the other factions which have a larger ship fleet, they have a smaller one and because of that don't usually go toe to toe with ships. They utilize a large air force of fighters and drones to harass and engage while staying long range. That allows them to call in possible air strikes or drop troops behind enemy lines for increased army point cost. They have access to some psionic upgrades but utilize them differently than other factions, allowing their fireteams easier coordination and dual activation.

    Anazi Dynasty are close quarters combat experts. Unfortunately their weapons selection is more limited than the other factions, having to rely on projectile over laser weapons. They have access to Char'iza soldiers which are tough skinned lizard warriors. They do have some regenerative abilities, agility and height senses which can allow them to avoid ambushes or deploy behind enemy lines. Other factions have troops that allow them to traverse terrain, either go around obstacles, climb and even super jump up and over but the Anazi developed Rift Generators. Utilizing a special interface available to scout troops, this allows them to 'blink' which essentially opens a small hole so they can pass through. Great for moving from outside a building into one or to the other side of something, without needing to spend extra activation or movement to go up, over or around they instead go through.

    There is still a lot of testing going on as we simultaneous testing two different action/reaction systems. Game play style for the space game was very different than ground combat, which made us go back to try to marry them together better. We wanted the transition from one game to the other, since they are part of the same universe to be similar and not as drastically different. Currently each faction has Light Trooper fireteam, Heavy Trooper fireteam, Specialized fireteam, 2 heroes which access what upgrades they have access to. There are also 1 mercenary fireteam and 2 heroes that everyone has access too. Basic game play consists of alternating activation so players don't have to wait for someone to move everything, but also action/reaction type response to keep both players engaged.

    Method A utilizes an orders generating system, heroes generate 1 order, fireteams (2-5 miniature group) generated 2 orders. You activate and move 1-2 heroes or fireteams, your opponent being able to react if their units have line of sight. Then the opponent activates 1-2 heroes or fireteams. You can activate the same one multiple times or all your units just once. You can also choose to activate more than 2 but this generates fatigue which could get you into a better position, but gives a penalty to shooting/defense.

    Method B also utilizes an order generating system. It is very similar where you can activate and move 1-2 heroes or fireteams. However you can only activate one group once, not multiple times, unless you want them to generate fatigue. And unlike the other method if your units cross line of sight of an opponents unit, they can only respond/react if they have not activated that unit yet unless they are in overwatch. You are trying to outmaneuver, get their units to activate so you can move or act more freely.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/21 00:05:06


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Working on Other Games

    Every person and company will vary slightly on how they work on their projects and games. Since I'm wearing multiple hats, there are periods of time that I have nothing to do. At quite a few points I was waiting for artwork, graphic design, 3D sculpting and rules testing from multiple people. There is nothing that I can do to contribute further to the game because it could be a day or a couple weeks. At this point I need to feel like I'm contributing to something so that is when we start working on other game designs. Some of the designs will end up being shelved for later development and others will start to develop more or be the next step afterwards.

    You should always have a backup plan either as an alternate or something to become the next project. Just in case we need to put Interstellar Crisis on hold temporarily or was ready to move forward with another game, we wanted a backup. There are also some games that we would want to develop to be picked up by another game company vs us self publishing it. As a project ends or you slowly grow it, you will want development on a new project to continue to bring revenue. I will use CMoN and Mantic as examples mainly because most of us are very familiar with them. Just as one project is about to wrap up, deliver and go retail they announce another soon going live. They didn't just start working on it, it has been planned and in some cases probably worked on at the same time as the main project was. Obviously with a larger team this is easier but if you are only a couple people, you need to take advantage of downtime. It takes almost 1-2 years from start to finish to really develop a good game. I don't mean manufacturer, sculpting but time to actually develop the nuances of game play and test some mechanics. It may not be fully balanced as working with smaller teams doesn't necessarily prove that things will not get through the cracks. We are all human and even though we believe we've accounted for every angle, there is always someone who will use a skill or ability in a non-intended method.

    Black Box and White Box Testing

    Testing games mechanics, balance and rules is important. You shouldn't simply just test with a group of friends or internally, but you should reach out and utilize people who aren't familiar with the game. When you work on a project and become intimate with it, there are things that seem like common or make sense to you because you have played it. For someone who has never seen or played it, they might not find it as intuitive. This is especially important when wanting to make sure instructions are clear and not overly complicated to new people.

    Coming from software programming these terms are widely known. Black Box refers to testing functionality of the software without looking at the internal code. White Box testing is when the box is clear, we can test the software functionality and the internal structure of the software as well. How can we apply that when testing board games? These aren't commonly done or utilized with Board Games but it is a method that I utilize to identify my test groups.

    Black Box Testing: We are testing the functionality or specific aspects of the game. These are done in demo or pre-setup games. I don't want players to worry about setup, reading the instructions or learning the game. I want them to test that the game functions and performs in the manner we expect. These tests could be short segment tests or full game sessions. You want to know what you want to test and maybe have a small questionnaire of a few questions already written down. This helps gives the tester a direction for what you are focusing on. For Sinister Reflections I wanted players to test game play. When they played the game, did the turn flow well, was it initiative, did they feel they should have been able to respond or do something they couldn't and why and of course did they have fun. Usually I try to have game already setup, then have players sit down, give a brief run down of mechanics. I stay available to answer questions but want them to see if it plays well without having to be prompted or reminded to do certain things. If it is a group that has played the game previously this becomes easier for larger tests, in smaller settings for first time players it may simply be about player movement or responding to NPC actions. Then rest the situation and test it again. I tend to rotate players through different playable characters so they aren't in control of the same person, each person may play a character differently than another even if a character is designed to play a certain way. Some players will play a ranged character aggressively, getting in closer than they need too while someone else would use it maximizing its skills.

    White Box Testing: This is also known as clear box testing, not only are we testing functionality or mechanics but we're looking at the rules. These are tests that I like to give the tester a white blank box with the game inside. I will preface it by letting them know that perhaps I'm having them test setups, based on them reading the instructions and setting it up. How quickly was it? Was it intuitive? Did they feel something should have been done differently? Other game tests may be testing a fresh group who have never seen the game from start to finish. Can they set it up following the directions, were their questions, how long did the game take? Then after playing awhile, another week I may have them retest it again after they are more familiar, did they remember things, was setup faster now.

    No matter what method you use to do your testing, don't simply just give them a game and have someone test it. You always want to give the person and/or group a direction for what you are testing in each aspect. Some tests may simply be about fun, was the game fun. Another aspect might be testing rules. You don't want to simply ask them, was the game fun? Was the game easy to understand? You will want to be more specific with your questions to ensure you don't get simple yes and no answers. You are going to want answers that have depth, what they enjoyed and found fun and what they didn't. Did they find an aspect tedious, what was it and why?

    Don't just simply ask friends to test, even if you are a small company. There are people locally at game stores that do this, there are groups on reddit and other forums that has people who game test. No matter who you get, provide some incentive for the favor that testers will be doing for you. These are also potential people who may help build your customer base later. Even if you are just providing pizza and beer, offer something for the time they are investing in helping you out. You may not be able to pay them cash but there are other ways to motivate them to assist you.


    Maids vs Butlers

    Maids vs Butlers was actually conceived years before Interstellar Crisis. It was during my World of Warcraft TCG and Magic days that we started up with the idea because I was trying to get my wife interested into playing TCGs. There was a lot of TCGs out there but she couldn't find something that she felt the characters were good looking... I'm talking male good looking characters, there are millions of female characters targeted toward a male audience, but she wanted something targeted more to a female audience. It started a joke, we'd develope art cards where I could collect hot maids and she would collect good looking butlers. Then we wanted to figure out a way to make a deck building game or card game out of it, around building your 'team'. If someone wanted to collect just maids they could. If someone wanted to collect just butlers they could. If someone wanted a mix, there should be a mechanic that uses that as well. At the heart it was going to be modular so it could interact with other variations, Pirates vs Ninjas, Angels vs Demons, Elves vs Dwarves, etc.

    We already decided against doing a TCG, there isn't a lot of money in that, unless you have a huge IP to rally behind and a good marketing to keep pushing it. The amount of cost that goes into creating random card packs, printing, artwork doesn't justify the profit without a large force behind it. That left us with a couple options. We could do a Deck Building Game, which were starting to become more popular or something similar to a Living Card Game (although we can't use that name because it is trademarked by Fantasy Flight).

    Deck Building Game
    This is the prefered method and we started development with this initially. There would be an initial box with everything needed to play. There may also be 1-2 small expansions for those games. Any new games would be self contained games or ones that could be combined with the previous deck builder. There would be either one or two types of currency which you would be utilizing them to purchase maids or butlers. Those cards are worth favor points but they are also used in various ways to complete objectives which can gain you favor points. There are two different types of objectives, public and private. There is a mini-draft at the beginning to determine what your private objectives are. When you want to complete one of the private objectives you would play the cards, reveal the objective but there are cards that can allow an opposing player from blocking that objective as well. You have to plan when to strike with them, unlike public objectives which everyone can see. At the end the favor points are added up to determine who the winner is. The advantage was this is designed for 2-6 player games.

    Card Dice Battle
    This was designed around 2-8 starter boxes of smaller 30 card sets. Unlike the DBG which could work with 2-6 players, this is basically designed around 2 players in a versus battle. You could take the dice and cards and play vs another player who has a starter. You can also take the starters apart and create your own custom deck. They would also be setup to be able to use in a drafting format. The battles are a series of 2 out of 3 quick matches, dice are rolled to activate powers of the cards. You get up to 3 rerolls, choosing to keep what you want to trigger the powers. There is an attacker and a defender, which also determines the order of activations for some powers. Your opponent doesn't know what champion you will be playing. After playing the battle, discard, redraw champions and play again. There are also objective cards which can gain additional favor, victory of the fight also gains favor and the one with the most favor in 2 matches win, if tied, play a third game and then winner gets a soul stone. Gaining 2-5 soul stones, depending on game type, wins the game.

    At the heart of it they are simple, fairly short games from 15-60 minutes depending on which version, fun but ultimately centered around collecting your favorite looking cards. Since we were also getting artwork done for it, we also wanted to recylce some of it and take it further expanding by using the same characters to create a board game. Similar to cards there are no real miniatures that she finds good looking or attractive to her. We don't know if it would simply use stands and character board characters like Dead of Winter does or if it would be miniatures. It may end up being both base game coming with complete set of characters, while creating resin miniatures for those that want to replace their standee's with something else.

    Manor Mayhem
    The board game is a tiled based game. One set of tiles in the initial Mansion setup, while the other side can be used for a modular setup to create different campaigns. The main objective is to earn favor points and make their opponents lose favor through a series of player vs player fights and completing objectives, called House Challenges. Players would control 1-3 different characters and there are random token locations that contain equipment that you can search for. The weapons for Maids vs Butlers at least are centered around things in the house, wine bottles, fire poker, umbrella, silverware, etc. There is a rock, papers, scisors type of mechanic that grants bonus dice for characters fighting against certain types. Characters have a base attack, dice are rolled, they get bonus if they are vs someone

    There is an objective deck that is used to move gameplay towards certain events. Some objectives are about defeating a certain character, others could be racing to a location, and there are some that require a task to be completed allowing them to be scored. There are also some ongoing objectives that continue to effect gameplay until a goal is met or another ongoing replaces it.

    The Manor has the 'Master' which is moved after every player has done their moves and actions. He moves to different locations in the house and can effect what happens along with objective cards. When he is in a room where characters are located, no PvP can actually occur. Some objectives may also be effected and not able to be completed until he is moved to a different room.

    These are fairly brief and quick run downs of the game play but it didn't start out a complete game in a day or two. We didn't simply just come up with an idea and immediately decide the direction to go, there was a lot of testing and changing of mechanics throughout the process. The whole process is a dynamic process until you finally publish the game. Even after published you will still be working on enhancing, correcting and making the 2.0 version better. I'll work on a post to outline how how we start to develop and work on ideas, from identifying the project, what you want to accomplish and sometimes making the hard choice of when to shelve it.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/21 20:32:25


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Its an interesting discussion, I am more intrigued with the black box testing (and white box).

    Looks like you really like the RPS ideology and try to experiment with it a lot.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/21 23:10:32


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    Its an interesting discussion, I am more intrigued with the black box testing (and white box).

    Looks like you really like the RPS ideology and try to experiment with it a lot.
    I will see about digging up our earlier tests we did and going into more detail on the testing. The trouble with the earlier documents was before I started doing everything in the cloud, so a lot of the paperwork, tests and answers are in files from questionnaires that were filled out during cons and other tests.

    Rock / Paper / Scissors

    When looking at game balancing there are a couple philosophies and methods to use. Most games will strive to reach a balance but there will always be aspects that do not balance out, these tend to create the Meta for the games. There really isn't a game that is perfectly balanced but there are games that are well balanced. You actually don't really want a perfectly balanced game because it can lead to repetition and predictability, there has to be something that causes it to be unbalanced to tip the scale. Dice are method to throw in some percentage of luck or randomness but by itself it usually isn't enough. I come from a TCG background and that is typically how the meta for them is created but the randomness/luck is based on deck building and card draw.

    At the heart of almost every game, the core of them can be broken down into a rock, paper scissors mechanic. For the most part it breeds healthy competitive play, creating a basis for players to adapt, learn and grow. If the game is perfectly balanced and each player skill level is equal, then it should result in a draw. Draws in themselves are never good, no one likes to get a draw and there is no sense of accomplishment. RPS also doesn't mean that rock always beats scissors, after all that is where luck and other factors can come into play. There is also no guarantee that a player with the rock knows how to properly utilize it as well. Providing both players are equally skilled though rock does have an edge and there is a reason that is healthy.

    No one can ever plan for every contingency or be prepared to face any situation. You don't typically want one army, squad or team to be able to plan for every contingency. Part of gaming is creating your team, trying to predict what others will bring but since you don't know your match-ups, you can't be set to defeat each one. In Chess there is only white and black, essentially the same thing with a slight lead going to white. However I also find Chess to be boring, that is why I don't play chess and I play board and miniatures games because although we are moving pieces, similar to chess, the game isn't chess.

    RPS provides three options, so it isn't just white vs black. There is one side usually better equipped to face one of the situations but not both. You can choose to be really effective against the one option, then do your best against what you are weaker against. You could also reduce your effectiveness by trying to handle both sides, which can work but does require a lot more work. Simply playing rock doesn't mean it will always beat scissors and that is where balancing comes into effect. The trick is to balance so that skill leads to the majority of whether you will win or lose, with a pinch of luck thrown in to keep everyone on their toes. You can create the focus on skill on understanding how to create a list, plan and utilize that list or you can have skill focus more on understanding timing, game mechanics.

    Another way to look at it is like this, you can pick two sides that your force can be effective against but not all three.:


    Rock can choose to be the best to always beat scissors and hold its own against other rocks, however they will paper can be a much tougher battle. Rock could also choose to shore up their force, allowing them to hold their own against other rocks and go against paper effectively, however this means they are now susceptible to lose to scissors.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/21 23:53:52


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Funny enough now that I think about it I experimented with RPS in a game I have stopped developing giving light medium and heavy armour and Anti infantry, light AT and heavy AT weapons
    the premise was the weapon paired with the proper armour had the best chance of penetrating while a bad pair would give the worse.

    It had potential, but was too complicated for a boardgame at least in my current mindset.




    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/10/28 23:56:24


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Things have been busy but I did want to make a post. I am going to circle back around to Kickstarters, pricing and distribution.

    Kickstarters - Part Deux

    If you spend time on Kickstarter going through things, in the 'Creator FAQ' questions area you will find an interesting little blurb, buried in all the other information.
    Can I run more than one project at once?

    We rarely permit running multiple projects at the same time, or launching a second project before fulfilling your first one. Having multiple live projects can confuse backers and split support. Running a project is a lot of work, and more than one live project will likely dilute your attention and energy.

    If you're a first-time creator and have multiple project ideas, we recommend selecting the one that's most developed and trying that first.

    Unfortunately that is not located within the Terms of Use so it proably never gets seen. It also shows that Kickstarter's team when looking to approve projects, do not investigate if a company has completed an existing Kickstarter. Although it says you shouldn't and it is a rare, the truth is it isn't rare and it isn't a true rule because it isn't defined in the Terms of Use.

    I do bring it up because there is a recourse that backers can attempt. If only one or two or a few complain when they see this, I doubt Kickstarter would care or blink. A lot of people tend to complain on forums, facebook and even in the comments but they don't actually report and that is what allows it to continue to happen more.

    I don't think it is a bad thing if another Kickstarter campaign is started by someone, while they are delivering an existing one. I do believe it is about timing. Once they have a proven track record then running multiple ones would not be so bad, providing they are delivering. However that does identify something of a red flag. More and more creators are mis-managing the initial project, running out of funds and then start another Kickstarter to generate funds to deliver the first project. That is dangerous and should never happen. If they mis-managed an existing project, then the second project would also run into an issue.

    Living Kickstarter to Kickstarter

    When I refer living Kickstarter to Kickstarter I refer to game companies that generate their revenue almost solely by Kickstarter. These are aren't mismanaged ones like I've talked about above, but ones that properly do their projects delivering, launching another and so forth. The issue is they've developed a product, started a fan base but didn't expand or grow it, they didn't work with a distributor or get it into retail stores.

  • How do you plan to deliver future and existing product to customers?
  • How do you drive new customers who missed the Kickstarter to you?
  • How are you going to fund or start the next big project/game?

  • Pricing

    Pricing is very important. You want the pricing to be good for a Kickstarter but you should also have a retail price in mind. There are too many people who haven't decided on a retail price or are afraid to finalize it during the Kickstarter and that can be dangerous. You don't want pricing to be higher than retail for Kickstarter otherwise people will wait for retail next time, despite the fact that the game may never reach retail without a successful campaign. You also don't want the price so low that once you hit retail, distribution channels you end up losing money. That is one reason we tend to see some games never fully hit real distribution channels, they are priced at a point that means they lose money going that route so stick to online or direct sales.

    To start with you should know what your manufacturing costs are going to be or have a general idea. Once you have final costs, add 10-15% for 'emergency' situations that always seem to pop up. Then take that cost, divide by the number of games you got created and that should give you the individual cost per game. Remember what your minimum order requirement is because at the very least, you will want to make at least that much money, otherwise you will never be able to do a second run. Take that base cost of your game, multiply it by four or five and that is the start retail cost. I say start because there are things that will lower or raise that, like do you have actual employee's that you pay that effect how much you need to make?

    Example: Artwork $400; 3D modeling 5 models $1250; Cuts, sockets for the models (1 head, 1 torso, 1 pelvis with legs posed, 1 alternate head, 4 arms (interchangeable)) $750; 3D master print for 5 models $500; Resin casting per $2; To create a fireteam of 5 multipiece miniatures, with different poses before manufacturing, initial investment is $2900. To cast 200 miniatures a piece to create 200 fireteams will cost $2000, I rounded up to make the examples easier.

    Now it depends on how you plan to sell that miniature. Do you want to sell them seperately, or will they sold as a squad? Resin miniatures, 5 of them at 32mm prices vary from as low as $16 to as high as $75. There is some added utility because there are alternate heads, arms to make them more unique. You can offset those extra by making torsos that are also sold individually, but we'll stick with just a squad.

    The manufacturing cost comes down to $10 for a fireteam of 5. After you've paid back or broken even, the eventual flat manufacturing cost for them will be $10. Let's say we simply priced them at $40 and they sold at that. Even though they only cost $10 to make, the $30 isn't profit yet. You need to sell at least 96 to get your initial investment of $2900 back, then you can technically start creating a profit. We'll say the first 100 fireteams goes to pay back your initial investment. Depending on the minimum order the next 25-50 sold, the money be set aside to start a 2nd manufacture run. Another 25-50 would be profit and the left over would go towards developing another set of miniatures.

    That would be in a perfect world but it doesn't always end up like that. If you sell them online for $40, then a distributor will want to pay $16 for them. They would probably sell them to a retailer for $20-25, then the retailer would put them at $40, online wholesalers would sell them for $32. That means you really only make $6 per set now, much different than the $30 you were making when they ordered directly. You don't see any of the profit that local game store or wholesaler makes, but you hopefully get the added bonus of greater exposure, higher order numbers which will offset the amount being made. There is also nothing stopping you from also selling directly and running sales to be competitive against online wholesalers. Obviously it is harder to do this with miniatures than it is with board games. Board games can do this easier because of the cost of manufacturing vs retail price point is much different. It could take the same $10 to make, but it could retail for $50-100.

    Retailer Terms

    When you talk to retailers you might be asked, "what are your retailer terms?". The buyer or store is going to want to know the wholesale price, how many they have to order to get that price, shipping cost and if they have to pay immediately or in 30 days (net 30). They are going to want to double the wholesale price, also known as keystoning, in order to make a profit on your game. They are not going to want to get stuck with too many if the game does not sell. If it is a card deck under $5, they could probably order 12. If it is a $25 wholesale game, they may be reluctant to order 4. Idealy board games want to stay in the $40 range, miniature gamers are used to paying $75-100 but board gamers don't like to spend over $50 retail.

    Distributor Terms

    If you are talking to a game and hobby distributor then you will want to ask them, "What are your distributor terms?". Distribution is one the main methods to get your games in stores and retailers generally prefer to order from distribution rather than direct from publishers, but that isn't always the case. When you are a large retailer managing inventory, it makes sense to place a single order with a distributor for everything. It is much easier than making multiple orders with several publishers. This is how distributors make their money is by providing lots of products, getting larger orders. When an order is large enough, the stores could receive reduced or free shipping from the distributor.

    Distributors will usually require 60-65% off retail price plus free shipping to their warehouses. Keep this in mind when you set your retail price. A good rule of thumb is to set retail price at your total unit cost multiply by 5. If the unit price is too high, you are pricing yourself out of sales. If it is too low, you can't afford distribution terms. Cut costs if necessary to reduce components but only if the design will not suffer and only to include what is necessary in each game box to play. Every penny counts.

    For an example when a shipment of "Gut Bustin' Games" comes into port from China, typically 25% of the order goes to a Portland, Oregon warehouse and 75% goes to Alliance Game Distribution. Alliance is one of about 10 game distributors and they are the largest. They are a fulfillment service for Gut Bustin; Games as well. When they get an order from another distributor or a retail store, they would email Alliance and they ship it out. If it is a large enough order, they arrange trucking and the games are sent on pallets. Smaller orders ship case by case and they pass on a UPS discount. The warehouse in Portland will send pallets, but is not cost effective to use them for sending cases.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/11 06:29:21


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    OK, I just love the references, esp for boxes - thank you!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/11 11:19:51


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Thanks for the read, useful information, some really worth repeating.

    I would like to add a discussion point, in a recent interview Andy Chambers pointed out something I suspected and encouraged a lot in the industry, that with the current plethora of means to get a game going and the ease of manufacturing (and how cheap it is to make a game in comparison to the 90's) the quality of the game is not as important as the IP behind it.

    His main point and I am glad he phrased it this way is how to keep the player engaged when he is not playing.

    Given that, how much more the developing of an IP should take precedence over the rules and physical parts of the game?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/11 17:39:21


    Post by: weeble1000


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    Thanks for the read, useful information, some really worth repeating.

    I would like to add a discussion point, in a recent interview Andy Chambers pointed out something I suspected and encouraged a lot in the industry, that with the current plethora of means to get a game going and the ease of manufacturing (and how cheap it is to make a game in comparison to the 90's) the quality of the game is not as important as the IP behind it.

    His main point and I am glad he phrased it this way is how to keep the player engaged when he is not playing.

    Given that, how much more the developing of an IP should take precedence over the rules and physical parts of the game?


    Personally, I agree with Andy. As I have often said, art sells miniatures. Rules sell miniatures too, but you only really need adequate rules. I expect that it is much harder to get a project off of the ground with so-so artwork.

    Keeping customers engaged between games is key, and the rules are (ironically) a large part of that. How much time have people spent designing 40K army lists, for example? But fluff is also a critical part of that 'between games' experience. A fictional universe provides much needed context. You need to give people reasons to start new projects, whether it is a new unit, converting a model, planning out a campaign, writing custom scenarios, blogging, whatever.

    The fictional universe behind a product can be a big driver of those sorts of activities. You want to inspire customers to engage with your products as much as possible, and providing a rich and engaging narrative context goes a long way towards that. I don't think that you want to make customers work too hard to engage with your products, but you need to leave them some room in which to make it their own. You need to inspire without being overbearing.

    This was always a big strength of the Eberron campaign setting for D&D. Eberron gave you a whole lot to work with, but closed very few doors. Lots of table top wargames used to be the same way, and I think the recent upsurge in narrative gaming is an indication that this is what customers are looking for.

    I don't think it has much to do with how crowded the market is though, or with developments in manufacturing and production. I think it is what people have always really wanted. But right now, there are so many options out there that we are seeing plenty of failures as well as successes. This was always the case, of course, but I think it is fair to say that the pace is increasing, which allows us to more easily identify trends.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/11 23:11:57


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Oh I agree with Andy that is what I was preaching years now.

    I would argue in GWs case that it proves that bad rules can be sustained by great fluff.

    A simple yet strong idea behind a story can make wonders, Rainor and Kerrigan the divided lovers, for example from SC2 or the Protos clinging into existence and the ways of old when everything around them is collapsing, Horus Heresy, brothers fighting brothers, the fluff of the Imperium itself is the fall of the Byzantine empire, a simple strong theme can captivate an audience more than an elaborate plot.

    I think I will Agree with Andy on the crowded environment, we have seen the first big merges in our little niche Asmodee buying FFG is a huge merge that has rippled in our small pond and set many in motion, in such a state the small studios will need to keep their audience captivated, a fictional world one can easily understand and be captivated in it, were one can wonder and think of "cool stories" in it especially after they stopped playing will be a huge asset.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/12 01:45:20


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Again I'll preface this as some of it is experience, mixed in with opinion. Your mileage may vary and is effected by environment and other factors. I am in no means an expert.


    Intellectual Property

    IP which means Intellectual Property when applied to gaming tends to refer to the big picture, in terms of a product line which does includes art, lore and more (ie: Halo, Star Wars, Harry Potter, WH40K are all IPs). When talking about board and miniatures game IP tends to represent lore/art, the universe a game takes place in. However IP in business terms is much more than that, it is very broad category which also includes trademarks, copyrights, trade dress just to name a few. Star Wars isn't just an IP because of Jedi, the force and lore of the galaxy but because it has unique and has distinct features. If you showed someone somewhat exposed to Star Wars, one of their ship designs by itself, it could probably be easily say it was from Star Wars by looking at the ship itself. There are certain unique designs and features that are known for Star Wars. Just like there are certain design aspects to ships that are Star Trek.

    For this discussion though I will not be covering trademarks, trade dress, copyrights because I believe we are talking about background, lore, history, art, etc. Correct me if I am wrong in assuming that, but I took it to mean discussing the things around the game, not just rules or physical pieces.

    There really isn't a right or wrong answer to what should come first, the chicken or the egg. The first question to ask and answer would be to first identify what the target or end goal for creating a game is for you. That is important because there are many people who just want to design, sell a game and are happy with it not being the next WH40K. Then there are those that want it to be bigger, become it's own thing and not just be considered 'generic game'. They want it to stand out and continue to grow.

    In the game design path there are a couple directions to travel as everything needs to have a start point. It really depends on the person/group developing the game on where to start and the direction to go. There are those that start with the rules. They have set a few things they want to accomplish, outlined the rules and then from there they will develop the IP, lore, art, story and shape it around the lore. There are others that start with a physical game piece, then build up from there. Then there those that build the universe, lore, art first and from there start to create rules for the game.

    I think it is important to note that you really want to marry both rules and IP. If you focus so much on making great rules and the IP suffers, then in the long term your game suffers in terms of longevity. If you focus so much on the IP that the rules suffer, then the game will suffer in terms of growth and can stunt itself.

    World of Warcraft Example

    World of Warcraft is a fairly well known IP that is based and built upon Warcraft. Back when I was associated with Blizzard there is basically a saying that "Lore > All". I'm not sure how things are done anymore but I doubt it has changed much. For most cases in Warcraft that is ultimately correct, Lore dictates abilities, powers, rules for players, characters and environment. There are often cases when rules or tweaks are done specifically to deal or create things based on the Lore.

    However that is not always the case, IP does not always beat the rules. There are times that you will have to make adjustments to marry the two of them for balancing or game play reasons.

    In Warcraft the Alliance have Priests that use Holy talents, while the Horde have Priests that use Shadow talents. When World of Warcraft came out, there was a balancing issue as well as simply a game play issue with keeping that idea. As such lore was modified to allow the Horde Priest class have access to Holy and/or Shadow and vice versa with Alliance. Without those changes there would have been no way for some raids and games to happen. The IP itself would have hurt the rules and essentially the game as a whole.

    Applying Intellectual Property to Game Design

    Personally I believe that you shouldn't cut corners. If you are making a board game, then make a great board game with good rules and a good game. Do not simply use great rules and then create mediocre lore.

    IP doesn't have a bearing on the crowded market, the lower cost to develop games and more accessible manufacturing for the average person is why the market is flooded. That isn't necessarily a bad thing though. However there are many examples of why you can't simply take rules from a game, then expect it to be big even when you use great rules. I think many people have this big dream and then either fail to deliver or don't fully understand why it didn't do well, especially if Product XYZ they based it from does equally as well.

    I'll use the World of Warcraft MMO clones for example, since there are many new games that come out and get accused of being WoW clones. Although WoW is a clone of EverQuest and Ultimate Online, currently WoW is the more known so everything gets compared to it. They all share a very similar rules and game play but the IP themselves are different. Many board games and even miniatures games are like this, similar rules but different lore and IP. They share many similar commonalities, but new games even based on the same rules fair poorly because they didn't build up the IP. Great rules but without building up their IP they tend to fall to the side of the giant known as WoW.

    There weren't enough to things to make them stand-out and be identifiable as their own things to create their own identities. It takes time to build up that lore, background and universe and doesn't just fill itself overnight. When you look at how many books, games, novels are out for Warcraft and even if you look at a miniatures game like WH40K... there isn't any company that can come close to touching that in the beginning, unless its established like Star Wars or Halo. Even look at Alien vs Predators, a great IP, great looking miniatures but the execution of its release is hurting it.

    On the flipside, Star Wars the Old Republic MMO is an example of a huge IP, however utilizing poor rules implementation. The IP drew people in, there is a lot to build on and grow with but the rules didn't fully take advantage of that. They didn't give enough developed content to keep people going and have the good rules to keep it engaging.

    Board Games tend to suffer more from good rules but bad IP. There isn't technically anything wrong with that as it is hard to truly develop an IP for a board game environment but it has limits. For example Zombicide is a fun, simple game that can be considered fairly big and popular. The IP itself is recognized as zombies, zone, co-operative game but beyond that not much. It is zombies and although characters have stories, the game has a background none of that is brought to the forefront. It is just a game nothing engaging beyond the game mechanics itself.

    Artwork and great looking miniatures can draw people in with the 'oohhh shiny'. Lore will keep them interested, interacting while they wait to play or in-between games. Great rules will give you a home run but it can't win the ballgame solely by itself.

    What should be developed, grown and when do you work on the IP? That answer tends to ultimately come down to business decisions but in the end they need to be developed together. IP is the broad spectrum and big picture that should be outlined and planned out, essentially it is the recipe. The rules, good looking miniatures are like the ingredients for the recipe. The recipe by itself can be useless, and when it is made with bad ingredients it isn't very good. But if you take that same great recipe and add in some good ingredients, then you have a winning combination.


    Small Game Companies and IP

    Designing an IP can be harder for smaller game companies without real finance backing and support. On one side of the fence a person can write lore and stories for free, filling a universe but it is another thing to refine that. I have enough lore on one of my games to fill a book larger than the Dragon Age RPG. However that is just the equivalent as a raw diamond. I tend to type like I talk, my grammar could use some work, nor am I an English major and I do not have access to staffing that larger companies have. Yes, you can hire a freelancer to ghost write, check grammar and even spell check but that is different than finding someone who has the passion to take time to understand the universe, vision and enhance the weak points.

    Beyond the lore, I don't have the budget for extra concept art. The budget calls for artwork that is going to be used to model and develop the game pieces and miniatures, not enhance the lore. Simply having a few pieces will dramatically increase the appeal to the IP. For that reason we've been slowly redirecting funds to get some artwork done but that takes some time.

    Time is where game companies end up making the hard decisions. They need capital to help grow, but they also don't want to release something that isn't fully complete. With Kickstarter games they tend to build them around rules, less focus on the IP with a hint of focus on art. The main idea is for them to manufacturer the game. The ultimate game plan is to then start to develop and grow it more from there. In most cases that isn't entirely how it works out.

    I'll use Megacon Games as an example, although this is mostly guess work and opinion as I am not involved with them. There is a big potential for a rich universe IP with Mercs and Myth. They are a small company and the priorities really went to create miniatures and developing a retail product. Beyond that unfortunately they haven't done much with expanding it. I have the 1st Merc book from the miniatures game. It is mostly rules with a small section of Lore, but beyond that there is no other information to fill from that. When you compare it to Infinity, Infinity's lore and artwork blows it out of the water. They are both decent rule systems and fairly good miniatures, but there is nothing to keep a person enchanted with Merc compared to plenty of things in Infinity. They don't need to have a novel to develop it, but they do need to provide information and set the background which the does none of that. A lot of the background, lore and story should be there but it is missing. It looks like instead they are relying or hoping that players make that push but that can't happen because there isn't a lot available. This is where they are failing to grow the product though, there is nothing to draw a player in to the universe.


    Kickstarter Design and Implementation

    I actually was trying to avoid talking about Kickstarter a bit but the above IP discussion along with another topic on General Discussion does have a valid tie-in. Kickstarter creates an avenue that does let smaller game companies create a game, but also get funding to fill in the spaces to games they couldn't otherwise create. In most aspects this is applied in terms of manufacturing, with a side of artwork and writing. In my opinion where game companies tend to fall short is that many try to embrace the "Go big or go home" attitude. Their goal is to make a good game, but really it is about creating an idea and a huge project that hopefully funds in the thousands of $$$. This unfortunately has had a side effect of making projects take longer to conceive and deliver. What used to be a 8-10 month project from start to finish has started to become 1-2 years as a normal timeline.The heart and idea of Kickstarter, it actually is a great thing. The flaw with it tends to be the design and implementation of utilizing Kickstarter and it is my opinion that it is being done wrong.

    Kickstarter toutes about backers being part of the creation experience and process but in reality, it can be labeled a glorified pre-order and marketing system. To be fair that doesn't mean I think of it entirely as a pre-order but pre-order is the closest as a word to explain what I mean. Backers aren't part of the creation process in reality, they just give funds and that is it. Yes there is community communication, feedback but the game isn't going to be redesigned because people think it should be. Backers don't really contribute to choosing or creating what part and aspects a game or IP get created. Those decisions are already made for them by the creator, they get to weigh in. There have been a few KS that have made minor changes to products due to feedback but not many. That is what I mean by pre-order, because ultimately that is what you are doing when you give money, wait for a product that isn't created yet. That isn't necessarily a bad thing either, I still believe it can be a good tool.

    How does IP creation factor into Kickstarter? What I plan to do though and hope that others start to do is change the dynamic, at least for me as a game creator. As a game designer I am human and although there are certain aspects of my games I love, I know not everyone have the same interests. There are certain lore and aspects I love but someone else and it could be the majority wants to hear about the other faction. With that in mind instead of creating a one big, giant KS... I want to deliver small, concise, shorter Kickstarters.

    For example for one of the miniatures games we've been working on. It is something that I don't just want to dump out there, attract people and expect it to be big. I want to grow is smaller, enhance it, develop it and foster a real relationship with backers into a growing community. How I would envision this being done (still an idea in process so bear in mind, it is rough) is releasing say a small faction or miniature line. This would start a faction of miniatures, it is a small funded goal with goals meant to unlock more in that faction. Sure it would be great to have it be big and unlock everything, but I don't want to do that for multiple reasons.

    Running a smaller, concise campaign means I can deliver a product in 6-9 months vs 1-2 years. During that time rules are released free in an Alpha format, so they can be played but also enhanced letting the community truly contribute. It also means as a smaller campaign, there will be a lot less complications and delays. It is much easier to manage long term. Now that doesn't mean simply changing A, because person B doesn't like it. There is a process and not everything is changed. But for example Stretch Goals, the order of what is unlocked and even what the next campaign will be can be chosen by backers. This lets us build a strong, good product line with an even greater rule system and build the IP and lore as needed, instead of just dumping it all out at once.

    The nice advantage of running a small concise campaign. Funding, creating, developing, listening and planning for the next campaign after delivery ends up in the same amount of time when you think about it. Once a campaign is streamlined, you can create and deliver. Then launch the next campaign to create the next faction or fill out missing places based on what the backers want to see. In 2-3 years you would have developed and created just as much from 4-5 small Kickstarters that you could have done with 1 big Kickstarter. The difference though is that backers have access to rewards faster, can use them, build up that player base, lore, build the IP instead of just talking about it for 2 1/2 years and then finally getting the product. By then interests tend to change, people have moved on to the next big shiny or they have become disenchanted.

    At least that is how we have planned the next project that I'll be part of. It accomplishes the same thing as 'one campaign' but I believe in the end can develop and create a better product. I think many KS games lack building the IP beyond the Kickstarter, which has contributed to having a flooded game market. You can't just rely on Kickstarter to build your IP for you. During most KS that I have backed, they haven't really developed the IP during that time either. They've just developed a product instead and focused on it, then move on to the next one.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/12 02:07:32


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    "Running a smaller, concise campaign means I can deliver a product in 6-9 months vs 1-2 years."

    More established companies should do this, BTW. The overbloated, overdelayed projects don't really work out so well due to bottlenecks when one person has to funnel everything. *cough* Kingdom Death *cough*


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/12 14:25:02


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    "More established companies should do this, BTW. The overbloated, overdelayed projects don't really work out so well due to bottlenecks when one person has to funnel everything. *cough* Kingdom Death *cough*
    Unfortunately more established companies will not nor do they want to do this. Large projects are why most new Kickstarters do two waves of shipping which has become a norm. Wave 1 the main game and whatever we can get done by then and Wave 2 everything else.

    I am interested to see how Antenocitis Workshop future Kickstarters turn out after they complete Forward Base. They said their plan is for small run Kickstarters targeted at introducing one or two items vs one large Kickstarter.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/12 22:09:03


    Post by: Dark Severance


    80/20 Rule

    The 80/20 Rule, also known as the Pareto Priniciple, was originally was established in 1896 by an Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto. He created a mathematical formula describing the unequal distribution of wealth that was observed and measured in his country. He showed that approximately 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20% of the population. The principle was further developed by observing that 20% of the peapods in his garden contained 80% of the peas.

    In short the rule basically says roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. When applied to business it tends to state, "80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients". Since then it has become an integral part of business philosophies. There are quite a few different variations and methods that this concept have been applied. It doesn't have to be applied to just business either, almost everything from relationships, interactions with customers to productivity can apply this rule.

  • 80% of a company's profits come from 20% of its customers.
  • 80% of a company's complaints come from 20% of its customers.
  • 80% of a company's sales come from 20% of its products.
  • 80% of a company sales are made by 20% of its sales staff.
  • In a healthy relationship a person only gets 80% of what they really want out of it.
  • 80% of a company's employee's are trivial, 20% are vital.

  • There are also a few misunderstandings to this rule based on the misundertanding of the concept. For example 80% + 20% does not equal 100%.

    You will never be able to please everyone, there is no 100% of the market. In terms of the 'vocal minority' and complaints about games. You can only satisify 80% of the people who have brought your product. 80% of the people will be satisified, while 20% may be negative. The same can be said that if 80% of your business comes from 20% of the customers, then do you focus more on that 20%? Although a good portion of the business comes from that 20%, you can get more volume by working on the other 80%.

    It’s not just important to work hard and work smart, but also to work smart on the right things.

    20/60/20 Rule

    That brings us to the 20/60/20 Rule. This is a more refined version of the 80/20 rule designed to help save time, money and resources to get better results. Just like the 80/20 there are different variants and versions of it. In most of the variations and examples it basically breaks things down into three categories: Negative, Positive, Middle.

    20% Positive: This is group of people understand what you are saying, they agree with your point of view. You don't have to give them a sales pitch, they already get it. This could be a customer who is ready to buy or even an employee who agrees with your new vision. This is a great group, you basically want to leave them alone. If you focus on them, you can risk over communicating. You can also waste time trying to influence or persuade them when they already have it, there isn't anything you need to do.

    20% Negative: Before anything is said, before you've even started to communicate or open your mouth, this group is against whatever you want to say or sell. This can be a toxic few or even a vocal miniority. The typical responses from people within this group are, "I'm too busy for this", "it will never work", "it doesn't make sense", "this is a waste of time". And no matter what you do, you will never be able to convince this group that your idea is good. You will never convince them that your product/service is great. It is best to completely leave this group alone. If you waste time on this group then all your efforts in persuading this group will be for nothing. It will only have an outcome that will leave you frustrated and lots of wasted effort. That is wasted effort that could have and should have been applied to the next group.

    That doesn't mean just completely ignore this group, but the time focused on it should be very limited. This group are often very smart people. Previously they may have been a positive but, over time, their bad experiences made them cynical and negative. They will prey on other people's fears by bringing up past grievances and idetifying all the reasons why new ideas just won't work. If we focus too much time on negative, it will suck the energy and rarely makes a difference. Some people believe that if they listen to all the complaining and invest time with them, they will come around and be more positive... however the reality is it rarely makes a difference. For the time spent on turning 1 negative positive, you could have gotten 10 people from the middle moved to positive.

    60% Middle, Workable: This is the most important group because it is malleable. There is where you want to apply your focus and can make a difference. This middle group can be influenced one way or the other depending on your interactiosn with them. This is the group that depending on further communications can grow to become positive or negative. Properly identifying people in this group can be hard but those are the people you want to identify, then spend the majority of the time finding out why they are on the fence. With focused attention and genuine interest, this group should be able to get the majority of the 60% to move over to the positive category.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/13 02:54:40


    Post by: weeble1000


    With respect to the 20/60/20 rule you mentioned, I think it also makes sense to identify individuals in the positive 20% who are willing and able to be brand ambassadors, and help do some of the work converting the 60%.

    I guess you could say that 20% of the positive people might be good brand ambassadors. So I would think it makes sense devoting some special attention to identifying and engaging with this sub-group.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/13 03:03:05


    Post by: Dark Severance


    weeble1000 wrote:
    With respect to the 20/60/20 rule you mentioned, I think it also makes sense to identify individuals in the positive 20% who are willing and able to be brand ambassadors, and help do some of the work converting the 60%.

    I guess you could say that 20% of the positive people might be good brand ambassadors. So I would think it makes sense devoting some special attention to identifying and engaging with this sub-group.
    Absolutely! They are the people you do want as your ambassadors because they are the ones who can also help influence the 60% middle.

    When I say you don't have to do anything with this group, I mean in relation to trying to please them by answering their whims or catering specifically to them. Just because they are the 20% Gung-Ho positive doesn't mean the majority of your time should be devoted to them, even if you apply the 80/20 to that group and consider them 80% of your sales. You want to increase the influence from beyond the 20%. In terms of time, focus and effort though that amount of time is very little compared to what you need to devote to the 60%.

    At the same time you shouldn't completely ignore the 20% negative. You should always listen but don't waste the time and effort trying to debate or convince them that you are right or resolved their issues. They already made up their mind. The reason you do address some of the concerns isn't necessarily for the benefit of the 20% negative. You listen and address them because those answers influence the 60% middle. If you simply ignore it, then those sitting on the fence start to give in the fear that they might be right. It creates a toxic environment which spreads suddenly increasing your negative.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/17 02:31:40


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Game Mechanics

    We all like to think and believe that when we come up with an idea, it is an original idea. Chances are however that idea is most likely not as original as you think or believe. In most situations given similar environments and conditions, other people will come to the same conclusions. Games are no exception to this rule. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to create something unique and new. Game Designers in a way are like storytellers, although we are telling the same story we tell them in different ways from different perspectives.

    That doesn't mean something new can't be created. Every once and awhile a game designer does come up with a unique mechanic. Gravwell from Renegade Games is an example of something that is unique (at least I haven't seen it used but I haven't played every game in existence yet). It only utilizes 26 cards and the alphabet to determine player order and resolution, everything else is based on the position of the ships around your own. It is ok, if your idea isn't unique so don't try to force something to be different, because you want something different especially if it effects the flow of game play. If it feels awkward or clunky, don't keep using it because you want to be different, it should feel natural. In the end no matter what you design or how unique you think it may be, it will always end up being compared to something else. That isn't necessarily a bad or a good thing but it is something you should prepare yourself for.

    Almost every board game at the core can be broken down based by their mechanics into similar categories. The most common ones known are worker placement, co-operative play, area/territory control, dice rolling, etc. You can find more information about the various mechanics and games that use them here and here. A game could have multiple mechanics associated with it so it doesn't just fit into one category, but don't make it too complex. Remember to K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid).

    Just like board games, miniatures gaming all share commonalities that can break them down their mechanics into IGO.UGO, alternating turns, action/reaction games, and hidden movement to name a few. The heart, the base core of each of these games are all the same. They all contain miniatures, that we play on a table with terrain and utilize some device to measure distances like a tape measure or ruler. We create armies or have unit lists based on stat cards and/or profile sheets. Each player takes turns activating, moving their units. We then roll dice to determine successes of those actions. Some games have variations but still the same mechanics like using cards to determine success, instead of dice rolling. Movement/Actions may vary from IGU.UGO, to alternating turns or alternating model activation. The results are all the same. There is even grid or zone type of mechanic as well.


    Why doesn't someone simply take Game A, replace the miniatures and have instant success? It is a simple and yet complicated process. If you look at the majority of games, a good portion of simply just this. However the rules aren't what will completely make a game successful. There are also minor changes that need to change in terms of terminology because of trademarks. All game rules have their pros and cons. Great games aren't just determine by good rules or good miniatures or great lore. Good games are a combination of them all, married together and built with a good community. There is no one rules system that is better than everything, it is just that there are rule systems that are better depending on players preferences. In other words some game systems players will think are the best, even if they are flaws related to the system.


    Copyrights, Trademarks, Patents

    When you are creating a game, don't be afraid to share mechanics of how a game works because you are afraid someone will steal your idea. It is better to know ahead of time what people think, before investing a lot of time and effort into what you may have identified as an issue.

    The game industry itself is a small industry, a multi-million dollar market but overall the players involved are well known. When attending conventions like GenCon or Origins many publishers and designers meet up, get together and talk. One example was when someone approached Renegade Games to publish a game. When looking over it, it was discussed with another publisher on what they thought and discovered that it was also being pitched to them as well. Not only was it being pitched, they had asked them to not show it to other publishers as they considering a legitimate offer. Although not completely common, both parties did agree to it, so the designer was violating the agreement. In the end neither party picked it up. Often over meals or after hours game sessions, multiple publishers get together to play and talk. It really is a small world, at least with board games.

    I won't go into a lot of detail talking about Copyright, Trademarks and Patents because it isn't a simple issue even for lawyers. For the most part you don't have to worry about a patent, nor should you really worry about copyrights or trademarks. There is one thing you should check on trademarks, make sure a term isn't used. A lot of games use generic definitions and terms, you can't trademark or copyright many common definitions and terms like strength, agility, action, reaction, etc. Some terms are trademarked and you should make sure you aren't in violation or it can cause problems elsewhere. One example is when Upper Deck started to re-release Vs calling it a Living Card Game. That term is trademarked by Fantasy Flight Games. Although many types of games are similar to what a LCG is, they hold the trademark so avoid using that in your title.

    I'll summarize Copyrights by quoting Lisa Steenson from Gut Bustin' Games. She said during a panel at a convention, "Although it can be difficult to protect a game design, most publishers are not in the business of stealing designs - their reputation is on the line. If you are self-publishing, consider registering the copyright on your rules and game components. You have copyright on your intellectual property upon the moment of creation, but registering that copyright allows you greater protection in a court of law in cases of infringement. Typically registration requires 1 copy of the game to be sent to the Library of Congress if published, along with an application fee of about $45. This has inherent advantages and does not cost an unreasonable amount - just the fee and the cost of sending off a single game. For more information, read about copyrighting games in the US on the official government copyright office website. Don't bother with seeking a patent. The short answer is that game designs cannot be patented and it is a very expensive and complex process."


    The Beginning

    When you start with a game design you have to typically start somewhere. Either you start writing lore and develop a rule system that goes along with the story. Or you create a rule system and then later write lore, weaving it into your game based on the rules. Either way you have to make a plan on what you want your game actually do. You may not need to fully flesh out the rules or how to accomplish certain things, but you do need to figure out what you want the game to entail. After you determine the list of what you want it to do, you will need to order them in terms of priority. The more detailed your list, the better and easier it becomes to flesh things out and make sure you stay on track. That doesn't mean you can't change your mind on a design, it is just an outline to help guide the process.

    Code Zero started development years ago, at least when it comes to the world creation, lore, history and background. It was originally created and written as part of a Cyberpunk world. It was generic in terms that it wasn't tied particularly to a rule system either RPG or miniatures, but was able to be a setting for almost any future scifi game. It was futuristic scifi setting with a dark future focusing on greed and corruption. Humans nearly destroyed their home planet, spread to the galaxy in search of new worlds, planets, resources. Humans violent, greedy, emotional, creatures of habit, considered the cockroaches of the universe to many. There was a degree of racism weaved into the story. You had the pure almost Aryan faction, the most human. The was the religious faction, who took in the psionics, which many people feared and were racist too. There was the mutants, diseased, forgotten, considered monsters. The cybernetic faction, almost fully cyberized, birthed in pods, schooled at a young age until indoctrination into a cybernetic body. The pirate faction, rebels, pirates and mercenaries.

    Since we had the developed story. It was time to determine what we wanted from the actual game. What did we ultimately want to accomplish with game play.

    Futuristic Scifi Skirmish Game
  • Utilizes a small amount of miniatures.
  • Scaleable games, can utilize 5 models but can handle up to 30 models, creating multiple squads.
  • Utilizes D10
  • Squad Based Combat.
  • A Squad is made up of 1-3 fireteams which consist of 3-5 models per fireteam.
  • Squad is commanded by a Lieutenant, typically a hero, single model commander.
  • For every squad you can have up to 2 Lieutenants or Sergeants (single models).
  • Activation Point System
  • Activation Points generated based on unit type.
  • Single Lieutenants or Sergeants generate 1 AP.
  • Fireteams (3-5 models) generate 2 AP.
  • Activation Limit
  • You can't use all activations on just one or two units only, but you aren't limited to just one activation.
  • Lieutenants usually can be activated 2-3, depends on model. Fireteams usually can be activated once. Some units or Lieutenants can increase this amount.
  • Player could activate a unit beyond the AP Limit, but until will gain Fatigue status, which can effect them.
  • Alternate Activations
  • Players alternate activations, until no more remaining AP or both pass.
  • Player activates 1-2 hero or fireteams, then next player does the same.
  • Shot/Long Action
  • Basic activations consist of 2 short actions or 1 long action.
  • Shoot + Move or Move + Shoot
  • Move + Move or Shoot + Shoot
  • Basic attacks, ranged, close quarters combat, suppression fire, grenades.
  • Action/Reaction System
  • Active player takes actions.
  • Opposing player can react if LoS with opposing active player unit.
  • Normal and opposed dice rolls for actions
  • Overwatch (long action), reaction with access to full dice pool.
  • Other Equipment, Powers and Vehicles - Psionic Powers, Mutations, Vehicles, Cybernetic and Bioware Enhancements
    Alternate Movement Methods
  • Different Movement. Not just simply flight, mechanized or foot moving around, up and over obstacles.
  • Jump Packs, Acrobatics, Flight Packs, Teleport Units, Wall Busters, Drop and Camouflage Troops
  • Utilizes Terrain
  • Utilizes terrain, preferably city, street fighting and interiors of building.
  • Rules should allow other terrain fighting like jungle, swap, etc.
  • Campaign / Scenario System
  • Missions are about achieving objectives, not simply wiping out the other player.
  • Scenario is a basic one shot game that most game systems use.
  • Campaign is a set of 3-5 scenarios.
  • Game play should have a cinematic feel to combat and movement.

    Warfare simply isn’t just about outmaneuvering, having better firepower or luck with rolling. There are unexpected situations that happen to create interesting encounters. That was why we wanted game play to be objective based, with their being varying objectives between players (maybe?). We can also increase this by having command cards which may call in extra military assets or change things. For example call an off-board artillery strike or maybe another player boosts his troops (at a cost).

    We want the game play and turns to be fluid and make sense. There shouldn’t be a need to lookup rules in the rule book. Everything should be easy to understand and referenced on the player cards for ease. There are elements that are similar from other games but combined together with everything else, it should create a unique game play experience.

    Ultimately I think if we can recreate the feel of a real time strategy game with a miniatures game, with a bit of twist we should on track. History and lore should be rich with information, leaving plenty of maneuvering to change with future expansion. Rules should be able to be used for tournament structure, scale upwards and down. It should have the ability to expand into more (vehicles, weapons, equipment, etc), without limiting what is already available.

    We spent almost a month going over this. We wanted the games to be quick, but not too quick at one point it was complete abstract with nothing but checkers on a board that had a grid. Parts were removed, added and removed again for the outline until we roughly had the example above as a final version. At this point we were ready to move to the next step.


    Creating the Stats

    Now that we have a basic outline, have a general idea of the background and lore behind the game we move on to the core. Starting with the basics before we start play testing, we need to establish a baseline for the units involved. That means we have to determine what stats the units will have and how much they would have. We needed to determine a base understanding of what the numbers could mean.

    2 - Untrained: Never picked up a weapon, used one, would at least succeed sometimes. Basically they should succeed roughly 20% against a non-moving, non-shooting target.
    3 - Green: They understand the basics of a weapon, but never had real training.
    4 - Regular: They have had basic training, but have not really applied it in the field with extended use. 5-6 - Veteran: They have survived basic training and actual combat, have a love more experience in the field.
    6-7 - Elite: They've survived many more encounters, becoming the best of the best, best training and equipment.
    7-8 - Hero: Hero and almost legendary levels, the leaders of most units.

    The numbers need to be applied to some stat to mean something. All units will need to have movement, hit points, mental (perception, intelligence, wits) and physical attributes (strength, dexterity, stamina). These attributes determine the dice pool that is used. There are normal dice rolls, when there is no opposing reaction. There are opposing rolls when there is a opposing reaction, with successes canceling each other out. Physical covered close combat, melee, shooting and constant use drained stamina (dice pool). Mental covered leadership, fear, and psionics. Quick and simple to use.

    We then had to ask ourselves do we want situations that a physical attribute doesn't cover all physical actions, should all physical actions basically be equal? Is there going to be a situation where we would want someone to be able to shoot better, but not be as good with melee or vice versa. Is there a situation that someone should be able to throw something better than shooting or fighting? Was it too simple in the current format and need more to create more diversity to characters? The answer was yes.

    Movement, Hit Points were staying constant but now we needed to add more. We added Ranged Combat, Close Quarters Combat attributes. Ranged covered everything dealing with ranged weapons. Close Quarters Combat dealt with melee, hand to hand, throwing weapons. Physical now covered feats of strength or stamina. Mental dealt with courage, fear and/or resolve in combat. We also added an armor attribute, since some units were unarmored or more armored than others. The armor effected whether they could or would take a wound.

    This process was only about a week. Not as long as the initial part because a lot of the discussions had already happened previously.

    Playing with Mechanics

    Now we had the basics, more or less equivalent to what many games have. Some have more attributes, saves, others have kept a more simplified version closer to what we started with as well. It was a start that would let us start to flesh out the game mechanics. With basic units created and on a spreadsheet, that let us see how everyone matched up to each other. A game is more than just stats and attributes so before we could properly determine a value, working out point costs for everything, we had to develop the mechanics with the game more. We had basic units with a rough stat line, we had some basic weapons (assault rifle, pistol, knife, sword) and now we needed to figure how modifiers and how units relate to things.

    To start we started with two forces consisting of a Lieutenant, 2 fireteams of 3 models for a total of 7 miniatures. We set up a table, deployed, and played without dice. We would play multiple games taking notes, playing out in a storyteller, almost rpg fashion. We would move units, declare intentions of what we were doing, shooting and discuss based on individual model placements, what a rough outcome would be. It wasn't meant to be exact or determine a winner or loser. We wanted to determine just what options or actions we would available for our units. Then we would randomize players again, retest the gauntlet. This took quite a bit as we discussed different things from destroying walls, climbing, peeking around corners, cover, mines, grenades, locking doors, opening doors, jumping through windows, etc.

    With each new test we would ask and answer several questions which would help fine tune what would eventually become available during activations. Some examples of the questions we would ask would be:

    Is there a situation where one model could have LoS and shoot, but the target couldn't have LoS with the shooter?
    If cautiously moving, would they have access to full movement range?
    If cautiously moving, could they peek around a corner to shoot one model only when there was a fireteam of three?
    If shooting an assault rifle in close quarters range, was it less effective?
    Does a unactivated model have access to more dice pool to return fire vs a model previously activated?
    Can you set traps on objectives?
    Do models have a 360 degree of line of fire or does it just have 180 or less?
    Can models choose to switch weapons or have access to different ammo types?
    What are the advantages of an active unit, fighting against a reactive unit?
    Does attack position effect the outcome, if a unit is forward facing, does attacking from the side factor in?
    Is flanking simply considered attacking from the side of another unit or does flanking only come involved if multiple units attacking one from different directions?
    What does suppressive fire do (lower dice pool, can't react, something else)?
    How is camoflauge different than stealth?
    When a fireteam reacts, does everyone get to respond?
    Are fireteam actions/reactions grouped together or handled individually?
    How does one determine who dies when a fireteam is fired on?

    When we determined quick fashion who won encounters, it sometimes was as simple as more power vs less. In some cases it was easier. A unit with 0 armor, 1 hit point is more likely to die vs someone who has 0 armor and 2 hit points. The guy with 2hp is almost twice as effective. If he had 1 armor and 1 hit point vs a 0 armor, 2 hit points then he was fairly even. The unit with armor being able to negate damage part of the time, but not all the time.

    We spent another month on this part.


    Finalize Initial Mechanics

    After all the testing we have a pretty good idea what each action can do. We also have a basic idea of what we want each action to entail or possibilities for units. That let's us start to finally create an initial point system to measure the strength of weapons, equipment, units and their relation to each other. We also take this opportunity to look at attributes again, are there any we want to remove, add or modify?

    Don't be afraid to experiment.

    One discussion that happened was 'lethality of modern/future weapons' vs defensive equipment like armor. In a future world of lasers, plasma, caseless ammo and varying ammo types, is armor effective. If you were going against lightly or medium armored infantry, aren't armor piercing rounds still lethal and aren't they just as lethal against no armor? For a time we did abstract armor saves, reducing a step, by removing them and having the contested roll determine survival. The contested roll basically covered who shot first, who hit who and if it was lethal enough to cause a wound.

    This abstraction worked out fine when we were only dealing with infantry. It wasn't until we started to add vehicle armor, power armor, mecha, and robots that this started to not make sense. Larger armored vehicles had increased survival rate, not so much because of armor but because of what it took to disable it. There was also the cyberized faction to consider as they are basically fully armored people, not just an armor outer shell. Armor as a value ended up being added back in.

    Game testing for this has been proceeding for months. Factions were essentially the same, some had access to better units than others. Each step in the process we added more, psionics, special weapon and support upgrades, command points for certain actions, and healing. Now we've been making changes to what factions have access too, adding in certain strengths and weaknesses to make them more unique, effecting the access to tactics and how they were utilized.

    With board games we go through a similar design process. Start with what we want to accomplish, create a guide, discuss the story and actions, create a necessary attribute/stat line. Rinse and repeat multiple times, polishing each part, until you the vote comes back that it is near complete.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/17 07:54:22


    Post by: nullBolt


    The art seems nice so I guess we'll see how the final sculpts come out. Not certain about the chunky Tali expy, it just doesn't fit together in my head.

    The 80/20 rule is called the 90/10 rule in programming. 90% of the program will be taken up by things that only happen 10% of the time. Although this is mainly an optimisation thing.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/11/17 16:55:40


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Works for rules though, most rules clutter is made by exceptions.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/12/18 00:54:15


    Post by: Dark Severance


    It is nice that we have a new section. There has definitely been a lot of parallel discussions on game designs, preferences, etc that have been going on that it is nice to have a section dedicated strictly to game design.

    I have laxed on updates, part of that is real life issues but the rest is we've been doing some game reworking so have been busy. It has definitely been an interesting few weeks. It all started with a heavy dose of rainfall in the northwest which led to quite a bit of flooding around the city. Then the sump pump in the crawl space went out, so we've had to pump out about 4 feet of water. The good news is nothing was seriously damaged or destroyed but we will need to get a new sump pump. That has kept me busy so I've been falling behind on updates and posts.

    With one of our board games we made some major changes to give the game a bit of a face-lift. Although it has similar features to Zombicide mainly that it utilized zones, spawn locations and a monster AI, but that was where the differences stopped. The overall look and feel still felt a reskin and that isn't entirely what we wanted. For that reason we reworked a couple mechanics which has given the game a different look and feel. By the beginning of the year I had wanted to release alpha rules as a preliminary introduction but we have had to rewrite and redo some of the basic prototype cards and pieces because of the changes.

    This is just an example of why layout/artwork should be near the final stages of the production and isn't technically final until it has been sent to print.

    With one of our miniatures skirmish games, we have also been hard at work to get an alpha rules release as well. We want to start getting feedback early on with it just to have more eyes on it, in case something was missed that could be a game stopper. It will also be good to get early feedback outside of the current test groups with a fresh perspective. We're hoping to have a few miniatures produced in a small run that we'll also be using as rewards to send out to some people or maybe a contest, haven't fully decided that yet.


    Making the Cut

    Once you have been working on game design, you've started to get your concept art together and finally getting close to finishing the modeling either digitally or classically sculpted. Now that you are close to finishing the poses and details, it is time to determine how many pieces the miniatures will be cut and where. The main reason to break the miniature into smaller pieces is for easier casting and production of the miniature. The other reason is depending on where it is cut, it can be modified to change out weapons/arms or other pieces to get the most uses out of a single model.

    When we started to create miniatures, we wanted to them to be versatile and provide multiple options. Even though a fireteam could consist of 3-5 miniatures, we didn't want them all to be the same. We also didn't want someone who would use 2 fireteams of the same group to simply have 2 groups of miniatures that were exactly alike. That meant we would need to at the very least have the miniature cut up into multiple pieces. At bare minimum the arms needed to be separate but it would be nice if the legs and head were separate. Some people may like to have an alternate head while others will just go with the basic. There are people that will simply snip the head and swap on their own, but we wanted the options to be available so that everyone could get the most.

    Here are 5 different designs for a fireteam of light armored scouts that are nearing the final stages. Once we start the cuts with the poses, you can't really make changes to the miniature. Well you can but it usually isn't the best or preferred time to do it. It can mess with consistency, scale and cause other issues. Other than paying for the sculpting to be done, usually there are some costs depending on the cuts being done as well.
    Spoiler:

    Miniature 1


    Miniature 2


    Miniature 3


    Miniature 4


    Miniature 5
    If you know you will be having the model cut into multiple pieces and for example you know you want the head to be separated, you should communicate that as early as possible with the modeler. I had thought it was communicated but it is one of the issues that can happen when dealing with a freelancer vs someone who has been part of a project since the beginning. Some of it can be lost in translation as well. Having examples, multiple examples when trying to communicate makes sure that everyone is on the same page. You don't want to have a project get deep into work and then find out something didn't happen as you expected.

    We knew we wanted have the head separately because we wanted to be able to swap out the basic head with something covered or helmeted. One reason was to give an option for those painters that don't necessarily like to paint faces. The other was to provide optional or more choices to show a diversity of miniatures without necessarily completely a new model, being able to rotate the head to look a different direction, etc.

    Here are the proposed places initially of where we can do some of the cuts to separate the miniature into different pieces for production.
    Spoiler:


    Unfortunately the head part involves cutting part of the upper part of the backup and upper torso. There isn't enough room between the objects of the armor, neck, head area to separate the head without reworking that piece. That is in part the fault of a few things, one the concept art which doesn't clearly show a separation. Most of the model was a fairly straight modeling based on the artwork. They were trying to match it as closely to the artwork as possible. Part is on the modeler who should have considered the design differences. Artwork especially concept art is a concept, not necessarily what will be the direct translation as a model but a fair representation of the direction it should go. The final fault falls on myself for not asking, catching it sooner and making it more clear.

    That is unfortunate because it sets the ground work and basis for the whole line. I don't want to have some miniatures that will be designed too differently than the other. I would like them to be fairly the same but still provide flexibility. Now I have to make the choice of redoing the upper portion completely which can increase costs or live with it. If we choose not to rework the design, then most likely the piece will be cut into 4 separate pieces. The head/torso, legs and arms (2) will all be separate pieces. We may end up doing an alternate body part which is the head/torso section with a different head. Since there are also another set of arms/weapons being designed we could essentially use them to create two separate fireteams of 5 miniatures each as well. In the end we still provide multiple miniatures based off the same two designs that have different poses or styles.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2015/12/18 02:32:35


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    I did not know that this existed! Need to move KOG light over!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/01/21 12:33:57


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    So any news on that front?

    I am not sure if a game feeling like Zombiecide is a bad thing its a tested product and can be marketed nicely to customers already familiar with it.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/01/27 22:10:34


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    So any news on that front?

    I am not sure if a game feeling like Zombiecide is a bad thing its a tested product and can be marketed nicely to customers already familiar with it.
    Yes and no on there being news. I have been actually working on a post because communication dropped off a bit and that is a bad thing.

    I don't mind it feeling like Zombicide but it shouldn't feel like a reskin. There should be something unique other than setting that it brings to the table. Oddly some things I had planned were introduced into their Black Plague version but that is unfortunately bound to happen. Either way testing has been working well for it, I'm pushing to have a polished demo version for Origins Game Fair. Hopefully I can have alpha rules available to read through in a couple months. I'd like to get some the book layout done so it isn't a word doc though. Meanwhile we've been working on the miniatures skirmish game as well.

    ----------------------------------

    It is a new year! Welcome back to a new year of hopefully great news for everyone, lots of gaming and painting for everyone.

    The first of the year can be fairly busy for many reasons. Taxes need to be paid, finalizing budget for the new year (if it wasn't done at the end of 4th quarter), setting up and making plans for conventions for the year, making plans and touching base with everyone involved in various projects. There are many other things that make it busy and they vary for each person and company.

    For me it has been double hectic and that means I unfortunately haven't had time to blog. Not having time can be both a positive and negative thing depending on where the time was reallocated too. It can be positive because that usually means everything is continually moving forward but it can also be negative since regular updates were interrupted.

    That means today we're going to talk about losing track of time and communication.

    Time and Communication

    Time is a limited commodity and not an unlimited resource in the normal sense. Time will continue to move on and is ongoing but each day there is only a limited amount of things that can be accomplished before it must be pushed off to the next day. That means anything put off until tomorrow, interferes with what was originally meant to be accomplished which then can cause a chain reaction. It is very easy for this to happen, even when it is something small that could only take 5 minutes, that 5 minutes can potentially cause a cascading effect that ends up delaying things by days.

    No News is Good News

    There is a saying that "No news is good news", which usually means that if everything is running smoothly then there is nothing to report, because if there was bad news it would get reported immediately. The saying has been around for a long time but is more associated with military wartime. When a loved one stopped corresponding or wasn't reachable, it didn't mean something bad happened yet. It wasn't finalized as bad news until someone came knocking or a letter from the army was delivered and then it was almost always bad news.

    That saying doesn't necessarily hold true in the game industry especially in terms of company communication with their customers and even more with crowd funding creators talking with backers. This typically means that the opposite has happened, "no news is bad news". When there is no communication it means something is off schedule or has come up. No news rarely ever means that everything is going smoothly, especially if someone made a commitment to make "regular updates". There is a hope that it whatever issues popped up can be fixed and the schedule can be brought back inline or that they can come up with a plan before reporting the bad news. It is the hopes that good news with the bad news lessons the blow. Even in my case where I was going to write regularly was interrupted for various reasons means, something happened.

    Here is an example of how one deferred week can easily turn into three weeks and should be avoided.

    Towards the end of December I had planned to have 3d sculpting completed for 2 fireteams for one of our games. The beginning of January the masters would have been 3d printed and I'd have masters and renders to show. There was a good possibility that the first production batch of casting would be done so I'd have a lot more to show. It sounds simple on paper but when you look at all the things and people that are working on it, there are many points of contact where this can break-down. Everything hinges on the sculpts being done, then the next step can happen. If there is a delay in sculpting, then everything else is delayed. It gets worse when there is a delay in sculpting, then a delay in 3d printing and then casting, now what was was 1 week behind schedule, became 2 weeks, then 3 weeks. In less than a week a project is now one month behind.

    The above example is something that happens all the time on a regular basis for many people and companies. Most people don't realize or see these delays and no one would know I encountered delays unless I communicated them. I don't have a deadline. I didn't create a pre-order or do crowdfunding promising to deliver by a certain date. All deadlines are self imposed, so even though we are behind, it is more of a personal failure on my part. It doesn't change that these things happen regularly. We see it more prevalent in crowdfunding because there are commitments made during those campaigns from "regular updates" to delivering a product by a certain time. Delays that normally happen behind the scenes that would normally be unknown are now suddenly in the spotlight.

    Artwork is dependent on the artist completing on time. 3D sculpting can't start until the concept art is completed and handed over to them. If designs because there were issues spotted during sculpting which could effect casting (ie: horns too thin, too long, bits too thin) that creates a delay in sculpting. 3D printing can't happen until sculpting is done, if there is a queue then that could also lead to a delay in masters being printed. Providing masters passed quality inspection, then casting can begin. However if an issue wasn't discovered during sculpting but is now identified with the master, that means going back and modifying the 3D sculpt. Then having to print a new master. If there is a queue in casting. There are many points that a timeline can be delayed.

    These types of delays become easier to manage the bigger the company is. If you have artists and sculptors that are on staff vs relying on freelancing. It becomes easier to control when those items are done leaving the delays coming from manufacturing.

    Communication

    We know delays happen but what makes the biggest difference on how these delays impact your customers depends on communication.

    When we first encountered delays, we should have not had it interfere with us making regular posts/updates. At first it is easy to make excuses. We'll wait until the next week when we have something to show. Since we made a delay, let's wait until we have 3d prints to show off as well so instead of small updates we'll make one big update. It can also be done if the decision was made to first identify how much the delay would effect scheduling, then we can have updated information with a resolution instead of "Oops". No mattter the reasoning or the plans to "make up" for it, the easiest way to not have to do that is to not have delays... in communication. Delays happen in testing, production, manufacturing but it should never impact communication. Even if the communication is simply a small paragraph explaining there was a delay, we're working on it and hope to have a full report next week.

    In my situation where the delays are self-imposed but I made a commitment to do posts, then there are other topics to talk about. I ended up getting stuck, getting tunnel vision, on a current project and being excited about having Alpha Rules along with some product shots. Although that is great, there are other things I could have written about and focused on. If I wanted to keep it on the project, we could have talked about rules, gameplay, lore or even going into what delays we encountered and what changes ended up as the result. Either way there is always something to report and talk about.

    When delays in communication happens it starts to create two really bad perceptions within your audience. I say we but I'm not meaning "we" as in myself, but "we" as a collective general statement to whoever the company/designer is.

    1) The audience/customers are not that important. We are too busy with other things to check in, give an update or chat. The only time that updates happen and communication starts to happen is when we need money.
    2) Something has happened since what was supposed to be "regular updates" is no longer regular. That usually means delays at best or at the very worse someone has ran off with all the money.

    When there is absolutely no news or updates then everyone imagines the worst things that could have happened. We've all seen and participated in the discussions that are purely nothing but conjecture. Everyone has their own opinion based on the last information provided and everyone is trying to explain the radio silence. Just like there are people that come up with negative reasons, there are man that also imagine positive things that could explain the delays. Yet as a whole the mob and mass of audience tends to focus more on the negative. There is a saying, "It takes 10 positive experiences to negate 1 negative experience" so the negative becomes prevalent discussions. With no communication there isn't anything to disprove or prove the theories.

    Simply making a post or an update helps curve that conjecture. When there are delays, there should be updates or items queued up to focus discussions so it isn't completely focused on what the delay is. Often time when a delay happens there hasn't been a course of action to correct it yet, or all the information isn't available yet which causes a company to hold out until they have all the information. This tends to end up becoming negative so it should be avoided.


    With that in mind, what other topics would you like to have talked about? I had intended to talk about "Crowdfunding - When is it and when it isn't a pre-order" because it does tie into delays and the difference between a game really ready for production (which is when a pre-order usually is) vs one that is on the final steps of going to production. However that is a much bigger topic and didn't want to make a "Over 9000 Damage, wall of text".

    I'm still working on some game updates. It is my goal to not simply do game updates though, unless it is more in lines with a lesson or something we've learned. I don't want this be simply self promotion because I want the focus more on helping and building the community of gamers as a whole vs me. I can't really explain it beyond that, I'm not sure why that is important to me, but it is.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/01/27 22:39:44


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Small, regular updates are better than huge walls of text. Checking in monthly or biweekly is good to keep the ball rolling.

    Don't copy Palladium Books or Dream Pod 9, whose updates always seem to have their hand out when they aren't radio silence because they're too busy with their heads up their butts. Pretty much the poster children for "No news is bad news that we were afraid to share".


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/04 01:09:45


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Preorder vs Crowdfunding

    This can be a hot topic as there are different opinions and views about what a preorder is and how it is different from crowdfunding. Before I give my own opinion, I think it is important to start with the definitions as defined by two different sources.

    Source: Merriam Webster Dictionary
    pre
    1: earlier than : prior to : before : in advance
    order
    2: to give or place an order
    crowdfunding
    : the practice of soliciting financial contributions from a large number of people especially from the online community
    Source: Wikipedia
    Pre-Order: A pre-order is an order placed for an item which has not yet been released. The idea for pre-orders came when people found it hard to get popular items in stores due to their popularity. Companies then had the idea to allow customers to reserve their own personal copy, before the release, which has been a huge success. Pre-orders allow consumers to guarantee immediate shipment on release, manufacturers can gauge how much demand there will be and hence the size of initial production runs, and sellers can be assured of minimum sales.

    Crowdfunding: Crowdfunding is the practice of funding a project or venture by raising monetary contributions from a large number of people, today often performed via internet-mediated registries, but the concept can also be executed through mail-order subscriptions, benefit events, and other methods. Crowdfunding is a form of alternative finance, which has emerged outside of the traditional financial system.

    To break it down to basics, when we preorder, we place an advance order by giving money to a company. When we crowdfund, we give monetary contributions to a company.

    At the heart there isn’t a lot of difference between the two things as everything in between comes down to semantics. Now there is a difference between what is considered the ideology behind the two concepts but not the actual definition. We might as well be comparing the term “Beta Testing” in reference to video games vs what is an actual “Beta Test”.

    Make no mistake both methods are about paying for something that has yet to be created.

    PreOrder

    Money from a preorder goes straight to the company, even if you order through a different company. Instead of you placing an order directly, they are placing it for you in a bulk order with money paid to the manufacturing company before the item is created.

    Buyers aren’t aware of the base amount necessary to create an item with a preorder. Buyers may not always get to see any preproduction work the company has done, other than some art and examples. These are the equivalent of renders, there is no production model at this point. If there was a production model, it would be in production and instead of a preorder it would have been an actual purchase. There is no guarantee the money from the preorder actually goes to manufacturing the product. The buyer however is protected if the Company fails to deliver the product promised or give a refund.

    If a preorder doesn’t generate enough orders to warrant a profit or creation of an item, then it will not get created. Most companies however have vetted enough into marketing and research to know they can meet their minimum order they need. It however isn’t a guarantee nor does it always happen. There are quite a few times preorders get canceled and money ends up being refunded.

    If a company needs to sell 10000 units and they only sell 5000, they most likely will not facilitate the order and pull the trigger on manufacturing. Preorders will let a company with reduce the risk of a unwanted item by allowing them to gauge the demand for the product.

    Crowdfunding

    Money from crowdfunding goes straight to the company, even if you crowdfund through a website like Kickstarter. Usually the buyer is placing an order by making a pledge of funds in exchange for something.

    Unlike a preorder though, buyers would be aware of the “estimated” amount of money necessary to create an item. They will also get to see more preproduction work because the Company needs to assure the buyer they can achieve what they are trying too. Crowdfunding can happen a lot earlier in the process than when a preorder could happen, however that isn’t always true as there isn’t a hard set rule on that.

    Unlike a preorder if the “estimated” amount of money isn’t reached, normally no money has actually exchanged hands. Normally a company seeking crowdfunding has not vetted marketing and research properly.


    When you compare both processes there is actually few differences between the two. One has a longer marketing track record and history associated with it, which is why we tend to view it as less of a risk. Buyers feel safer in that they have more protected rights in relation to it. The other is still relatively new and many of the pitfalls are starting to become highlighted because of it.

    When is crowdfunding not a preorder?

    It all boils down to perception with accountability, presentation and networking.

  • Company A has a professional looking website. They are virtually an unknown company. It has a new game on it, with video of gameplay, renders and shots of what appear to be preproduction versions. There is an option to preorder directly from them, with a promised delivery in 1 year.
  • Company B has a professional looking website. They are a known company with some products that have been sold previously. It has a new game on it, with video of gameplay, renders and shots of what appear to be preproduction versions. There is an option to preorder directly from them, with a promised delivery in 1 year.
  • Company C has a professional looking website. They are a known company with some products that have been sold previously. They started a crowdfunding campaign, showing off video of gameplay, renders and shots of what appear to be preproduction versions. There is an option to pledge and back them, with a promised delivery in 1 year.
  • Company D has a professional looking website. They are virtually an unknown company. They started a crowdfunding campaign, showing off video of gameplay, renders and shots of what appear to be preproduction versions. There is an option to pledge and back them, with a promised delivery in 1 year.

  • If we were to rank the order of risk from most likely to deliver and less likely it would probably look something like: B & C would most likely succeed and be the least amount of risk and would be considered equal. Companies A & D have the same amount of risk of not succeeding.

    If we were to look who has more experience just based on their current product lines and what they have delivered: B & C would are still roughly the same. Companies A & D again having not delivered anything before, being completely new, do not have a track record to show experience.

    When we start to look at companies in that perspective we begin to see a true difference between a preorder and a crowdfunding, at least in terms of who benefits more from it and the potential risks. This is where the risk vs reward becomes a question that a backer should consider before ever crowdfunding. There are no real protections for a backer, at this time, and if you are not prepared to simply write off that money then crowdfunding isn't a route you should look at.

    Some people could argue that since “Company C” is established it should not be going down the crowdfunding route but should instead be doing what “Company B” is doing. So then why would they choose to crowdfunding over creating a preorder for their products? The main answer come in the form of marketing, social networking and reach.

    Company B even with advertising and sending out press kits is going to reach a limited pool of potential customers. Company C will be able to not only reach the same potential customers as Company B, but they will be able to reach a much larger audience who wouldn’t normally be looking at them directly. There is also a group/mob mentality that comes which also increases the reach of a product and company.
    It doesn’t

    The real difference though comes down in answering the question of “Does Company C” really not have enough capital to launch this on their own. Many people can speculate but honestly without seeing financial records, there is no real way to know this. We can attempt to make educated guesses on what we assume sales and profitability is, but there is a lot more that goes into a company than simply manufacturing vs sales. Even if we know a company had 10 million in sales, that doesn't necessarily translate into profitability.

    The real question is, “Do established companies hurt crowdfunding and pull focus away from people/companies that really need crowdfunding?

    The above question is the main meat and focus behind the debate. The answer unfortunately isn’t clear cut.

    It is easy to say that “Buyer A” has a limited amount he can spend. Crowdfunding aside this will always be a factor even if you compared two companies releasing pre-orders. It may seem like this can impact a Kickstarter campaign and campaign creators can use this as a “basis” for a failed campaign but that doesn’t mean it is true. No creator likes to think their idea wasn’t good enough to draw interest, but it happens unfortunately. It is easy to say that "Company C" pulled potential backers away because of their $300K campaign but that doesn't tend to be true if you look at the historical information, comparing it to other campaigns running parallel. Yes it can be a small factor but it is never the sole factor.

    Crowdfunding is like a circus. Unlike a preorder where it normally is a hassle for someone to cancel and get a refund (some places charge a restocking fee). A backer can cancel their funding at any time while the campaign is running. In order to make sure that backer stays, the campaign creator has to keep their attention. That doesn't necessarily mean "give them free stuff" although the vocal minority can say that. It just means there has to be real interaction that is engaging with the backers. Even after a campaign completes, those backers are in communication directly with the creator until something is delivered. That means anytime they are unhappy, it will be heard in the comments. With a preorder, once the company has the money, there is no further interaction between buyer and seller traditionally speaking.

    There does come a benefit from an established company using crowdfunding though. It will traditionally introduce new faces to crowdfunding. It puts them all in contact with one another and from there the social networking happens. It is for these reasons many people will jump onto a $1 backer to 'inject' interest in other Kickstarters in the comments. This often happens. Other users also connect on similar topics, which causes them to see what the other person has backed. Although this isn't a norm, one campaign I know of had over 8000 backers, with 40% of them having no experience with crowdfunding. That means 3200 people who have never been exposed and would never have considered it jumped onto the wagon. Unfortunately I got busy so could track stats beyond that, but I know at least six of them jumped onto 2 other game Kickstarters that I happened to also join.

    Will this end the debate? Absolutely not. ^_^


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/08 19:26:12


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Piercing the Shroud

    Story Background

    Have you seen something move just out of the corner of your eye, giving you the feeling that someone was watching you, but when you looked there was nothing. If you looked carefully into a mirror you might catch a barely noticeable flicker in the reflection and gone with a blink of the eye.

    Makai has been called many things from spirit world, afterlife, underworld or hell. A world filled with magic, demons and death safely hidden on the other side of the reflection, masked by magical barriers known as the Shroud. It is kept slightly out of phase with Terra, allowing the two worlds to exist in the same place.

    Millennia ago Terra and Makai used to be one world where magic flourished between both lands. Born from fear, selfishness and misunderstanding, war would eventually engulf both worlds causing death and strife in what was known as the 100 Year Demon War. It was clear that at the continued rate, if nothing changed, both worlds would be destroyed. With no way for them to live peacefully together, the only answer was to separate them. Tapping into the power of the ley lines, a set of magical barriers was constructed to separate them.

    Time eventually eroded away any memories or mention of Makai and with it magic became forgotten. With the barriers left unmaintained they have begun to wane. Cracks have started to appear in areas surrounded by strong emotion or tragedy, the Shroud becoming weaker creating a Gate. These Gates serve as a temporary bridge between Terra and Makai, in which Fiends, known as demons, have been known to manifest or worse, pull something through to them. Throughout history these Fiends have become the basis for many myths and legends.

    Remnant's hold the key within their blood, descendants of those that fought during the Demon War, they are able to pierce the Shroud and tap into magical energy. Section-Zero is a secret organization comprised of Remnant's, created to seal Gates and venture into Makai. It is up to them to travel to Makai, gather enough spirit energy to use and seal the Gates.

    Will the barriers run out of power first, forcing both worlds to merge and causing the Demon War to reconvene, or will the Remnant’s succeed?

    Game Summary

    Piercing the Shroud is a cooperative board game in which players battle Fiends, evil spirits and demons which are controlled by the game. There are different types of Fiends, each with their own set of rules which prioritize how they roam as well as hunt.

    Players will take on the role of a Remnant, arcane descendants of those that fought in the 100 Year Demon War, who were pulled through a Gate. They find themselves awakening in Makai, a near mirror copy of Terra, except darker and filled with demons. They will have to plan their actions carefully, depending on what action they take it determines the amount of Presence they generate which will alert and attract the Fiends.

    Normal weapons would normally be unable to damage Fiends but a Remnant has the ability to harness and channel spirit energy, known as Ki, around them. They will have to search and scavenge for resources and equipment to defend themselves with. In order to escape, players need to gather enough Ki to stabilize one of the Gates and survive the Fiends so they can return home.

    Players gather Ki by searching for Ki reservoirs or destroying fiends. They can utilize the spirit energy which allows them to power up and gain access to new skills and abilities. With more power comes greater danger as it will also increase the power of the Fiends they encounter. In times of emergency they can spend Ki to heal wounds or temporarily close a Gate but they have to be careful. If they expend too much Ki they could depower or worse not have enough Ki to stabilize the Gate to get back home.

    Solo and Storyteller Mode

    The game can be played solo with one player controlling the Remnant's and the game controlling the Fiends. Solo is also used to describe quick missions, a series of separate games that do not impact one another.

    The game was also designed to excel by playing through a series of campaigns in Storyteller Mode. There is a limited team of Remnant's that they can use to go on missions to Makai to gather Ki or rescue victims. If they die players would lose access to that character throughout the campaign. When they survive they are able to convert excess Ki to experience to increase their base stats for future missions.

    Notes

    Zone and Squares: Movement consists of zone movement but within each zone is a set of squares. The squares determine how many Fiends and Remnants can occupy one zone. It also can effect line of sight in term of range weapons. If a Remnant is shooting to a Fiend but has a Remnant in between them, then there is a possibility of hitting the Remnant. There are some zones that are like alley or hallways which may be large enough for some characters but not all to travel through them.

    Priority Targeting: Fiends actions are determined by a few factors and have a order of commands they follow. Presence that is built up by other player actions can attract them. Line of sight also effects them but some creatures have prey priorities. For example Baba will prioritize female Remnants, so if a male and female Remnant is in line of sight she will move/attack towards the female. Presence is similar to building threat level but there are some Fiends that prioritize someone with the lowest Presence.

    Leveling/Exp: When Fiends are defeated and through some search cards players gather Ki. This is similar to experience which can be used to level up their character. It will unlock new abilities they can choose from as they level. Unlike the typical experience points, this Ki is a type of currency which can be used to heal and disrupt Gates but spending it causes them to lose it, so in essence a character could de-level and lose access to powers. For campaigns excess Ki when they survive can be converted to Exp which can be used to increase base stats for characters, increasing their dice pool for future adventures.

    Search, Event, Fiend Decks: Fiends are grouped together based on Category 1, 2 and 3 threat levels. The decks are used to determine which Fiends will spawn but designed to be customized with future expansions or to customize games by being able to remove Fiends and add them in. The search deck handles equipment, some campaigns put in some 'captives' or other 'goals' that need to be found within the deck to succeed. Event cards can be triggered by certain Fiends defeat, searching objective points and some search cards trigger them. Events can have positive or negative effects on the environment and Gates.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/08 21:14:09


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Sounds like an interesting proposition.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/08 22:14:32


    Post by: Dark Severance


    It has been a lot of designing I can at least attest to that. ^_^

    The original design was that the Fiend deck was only one deck that determined how many and what spawned. We changed them to individual Category decks mainly because we wanted to allow more of a RPG style of gameplay, where we could customize games based on campaigns (similar to how some Pathfinder encounter decks are made). For example, maybe your in a area that is based more on Fae mythology and creatures or maybe asian spirits.

    Keeping it as one deck made this task daunting and difficult. It was much easier to just pull X monster card out of Category 1 and replace with Y monster.

    Events have been a new feature we're testing out. We wanted more interaction a type of take a risk card. Since it is about exploring in a way. Something that wasn't tied to just the search deck but tied to certain triggers. So far that has been working out well.

    Now we're just trying to settle on standees or miniatures or just acrylic standees. Ultimately we want to keep it priced at a board game, but also be able to serve as a intro into miniatures. The idea was the base game would be standee's, similar to Dead of Winter. Then a Deluxe version would have miniatures instead and/or we'd just sell miniature packs as a separate thing for those that wanted to swap out. Currently working on a prototype demo game play video utilizing numbered and colored acrylic general standees.

    I hope to have some 3d master prints to soon show for our miniatures skirmish game. The initial batch of casting is happening soon(tm). If not this week, I'll at least show the renders and cuts we've done to them with some info on that game as well.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/08 23:27:21


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Kickstarter has shaped boardgame expectations, miniatures are the way to go, for good or evil, standees don't cut it, I feel making the whole thing cubes or disks will be better than standees acrylic or cardboard.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/08 23:56:59


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I'm not sure if we'll be doing Kickstarter, at least for the board game. It really depends on if a publisher wants to pick it up and what other agreements can be made. There are still a lot of viable means that do quite well and aren't Kickstarter but I do understand what you mean.

    Ideally I would like someone to pick it up but let me retain the rights to design, sell miniatures based on the artwork for that game. They could go standee, cubes, whatever as long as their is an option to do miniatures for the miniatures gamer.

    If that doesn't happen, there are still some other options we can do but Kickstarter would probably be the last option. Unless the publisher wants to pick it up, but run it as a Kickstarter (which has been happening more or rather publishers have been picking up successful Kickstarters afterwards).


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/09 00:46:18


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    What I mean, sorry if I am not clear in my initial post, is that because of kickstarter, boardgamers have increased their expectations on what a boardgame should include as components as is evident by reviews of recently released boardgames like the one from Wyrd or the failures in KS from well known designers who went in the "standees rout" and had to relance with a new business plan that included miniatures in their boardgame.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/09 01:09:50


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I think you were clear in your post. However I think I classify board gamers in two different categories instead of one. Miniatures Board Gamers have increased their expectations a lot in what they expect to see in board games to represent characters, miniatures, etc. However board gamers don't necessarily care about those things to that degree. Wyrd technically would have miniatures board gamers looking at it first, because of their existing product line and genre, than normal board game players. There is a very large board game market though that could add or be focused on miniatures but aren't, they are specifically targeted towards the board gamer, families and children who don't paint, assemble or do anything with miniatures. For example Asmodee, IELLO, Renegade, Upper Deck, Zman, Rio Grande, Mayfair Games for board gamers vs CMoN, Fantasy Flight, Soda Pop, Ninja Division for miniatures board gamers.

    Since I consider myself more a of miniatures board gamer, my wife is a board gamer, I'm trying to find a middle ground or method that serves as a gateway game for that. Ideally doing something like CMoN style of plastic miniatures would definitely be best. I'm not sure I'm ready for that route yet or want to personally manage dealing with overseas manufacturing for plastic. Now if a publisher wants to go that route then that is a possibility, although I'd still want to do collectible resin miniatures on top of that for it as well. If not going to plastic, then by having resin miniatures I change the target market and price point of the game greatly which isn't necessarily a bad thing but not the end goal.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/09 09:06:15


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    In my opinion, that was the case a few years ago, now this has changed a lot, if the game looks like a miniatures boardgame then buyers expect miniatures in it, standees are frowned upon, better use meeples and cubes.

    Look at Argo for a recent example, kickstarter with Bruno Faiduti's name behind it (and Serge Laget), they went for the standees rout and failed miserably, now that they relaunched with miniatures they will probably fund.

    The same goes for many other boardgames and I am expecting it to see wider spread among publishers.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/09 14:58:50


    Post by: Dark Severance


    That fits within my Kickstarter realm, if the game was going to be sold or created through Kickstarter then yes these type of games have the expectations of having miniatures. If you make a board game on Kickstarter then that is definitly expected but that is only a portion of the market. That route is valid though as method to show "interest" in a game, making it easier to get a publisher to pick it up though. It isn't the only method.

    I didn't look or consider backing it mainly because of presentation. They had prototypes but instead of pictures of that, they put really bad "obviously photoshop" pictures. I think the tiles are way too small given the size of some of the 'pieces' they showed in the gameplay video. The initial campaign asked for $50K with standee's but now they can add miniatures and have a fund goal of $10K. The bad photoshop plastic renders don't help at all either. At that point I haven't even looked at how it plays because I don't have confidence in delivery or that it will look good.

    I'm sure those critiques will bite me in the rear in the future too. As I don't have a photoshop staff so they might seem just as amateurish, but I'd spend a bit on making the presentation a bit clearer. I'd show actual products in that case. They should have had 3d printed some prototypes for display at the very least.

    The issue with adding miniatures to a game that may or may not need it effects many factors. It changes the base price point, changes the size of the box and effects how it is received in local game stores. Miniatures means instead of a game in $50 or below price point, it is now $75-99. LGS will upon an initial release order 2-4 boxes but then only keep one on the shelves as it sells out. Higher ticket boxes over $50, unless it is a known game tend to not be kept in stock because it is did inventory. It takes up space and has a high price point. Games like 7 Wonders and Dead of Winter since it is below $50, they will order a case and stock them. They can clearance them out when they need too easier since their markup isn't as close compared to something like Zombicide or Super Dungeon Explorer.

    It is also why some game publishers have made a shift to smaller, quick games, with a lower price point and manufacturing cost (especially card games). They can stock and price 10 small games for the space that 1 game takes up and sell all the little things instead of focusing on 1 main seller.

    But that is the US market I'm looking at comparing things too. I unfortunately am not sure what the market looks like overseas.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    I do however think the best method would be a core game targeted for board game, lower price point for those that don't care about miniatures. Then a deluxe version would be with actual miniatures. What I don't know is how well resin miniatures for a board game would go for this type of game. I know plastic would be received well but I"m not sure I'm ready for that process and I definitely would rather deliver high quality resin, then poor quality plastic (even if it meant a smaller market).


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 01:14:06


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I am looking for a few volunteers if someone wants to help me with some feedback on some miniatures designs.

    I have acquired rights to some designs that are already sculpted but I need to do some changes. Partially to put their scale more in line with what we have but also to add our own flare to them. I've hit a creative door so if someone is interested, let me know.

    Thank you.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 02:50:04


    Post by: Alpharius


    I'll help out, if you're looking for opinion/advice/etc. and not actual ability to sculpt!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 15:56:09


    Post by: Dark Severance


     Alpharius wrote:
    I'll help out, if you're looking for opinion/advice/etc. and not actual ability to sculpt!
    Yes I'm looking for opinions and advice, not a sculptor. ^_^ We acquired some 3d work that was done for a previous game that fell through, along with artwork to expand our line. Before I send it off to let the artists and sculptors do changes to put it more in line with our games, I need some opinions on likes, dislikes, suggestions, etc. I'll send you a PM with the information later then.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 20:58:56


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    sounds interesting, that is actually a benefit of 3D sculpting.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 21:35:05


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    sounds interesting, that is actually a benefit of 3D sculpting.
    Their Kickstarter didn't go well for various reasons so they closed shop. They already had a lot of sculpted so I thought it was a waste to not do anything with them. I reached out and was able to secure rights to their assets. A good portion of their stuff can fit into the look and feel we were going for. Instead of starting from scratch, we are able to do edits and changes for a fraction of the cost while expanding our initial line. If things work out it'll be a win win for everyone. ^_^

    I really wish I could have worked something out with Rocketgames for their Last Saga line, because I also like their line and it fits with ours. But I didn't know he was having as much issues and by the time I knew they had already done something with Zenit Miniatures. Pig Iron Productions who I did also talk to (because I like their vehicles) decided to stick strictly within the UK for ease of transition. I can understand and respect that. I wish them all the best.

    That does bring up an interesting question. Other than manufacturing being cheaper, why are there not a lot of "bits" places within the US? I notice the majority of them are overseas, despite what looks like a good strong US following.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 21:59:28


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    It is indeed beneficial to both and something the digital nature helps a lot to do.

    Pig iron illustrates the problems the classic medium has.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 22:40:56


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


     Dark Severance wrote:
    The issue with adding miniatures to a game that may or may not need it effects many factors. It changes the base price point, changes the size of the box and effects how it is received in local game stores.

    Miniatures means instead of a game in $50 or below price point, it is now $75-99. LGS will upon an initial release order 2-4 boxes but then only keep one on the shelves as it sells out. Higher ticket boxes over $50, unless it is a known game tend to not be kept in stock because it is did inventory. It takes up space and has a high price point. Games like 7 Wonders and Dead of Winter since it is below $50, they will order a case and stock them. They can clearance them out when they need too easier since their markup isn't as close compared to something like Zombicide or Super Dungeon Explorer.

    I do however think the best method would be a core game targeted for board game, lower price point for those that don't care about miniatures. Then a deluxe version would be with actual miniatures. What I don't know is how well resin miniatures for a board game would go for this type of game. I know plastic would be received well but I"m not sure I'm ready for that process and I definitely would rather deliver high quality resin, then poor quality plastic (even if it meant a smaller market).


    IMO, miniatures board games kind of need to be Kickstarted due to the higher fixed initial development and tooling cost, against an unknown production run / sales volume. Much moreso than any print and play type game, or game with abstract components like chits or meeples.

    I suspect that it is possible to have a game with a (literal) handful of minis at (or below) the $50 price point, but I believe that the game needs to be designed this way from the outset, with relatively few components, of which only a handful are minis, and the vast bulk are inexpensive print. Consider a Monopoly set as the archetype of this sort of thing - primarily dirt cheap paper print, a largish board, a handful of sculpted player tokens, and a couple handsful of sculpted buildings. If one's game has this sort of natural structure, then a minis-enhanced game is a viable possibility at a mass market price point.

    At the $75+ price point, yeah, things like Zombicide and SDE have dozens of sculpts and dozens of minis, and the price naturally reflects this. If this is the game concept, then yes, this is the natural price point, which makes the game more niche in addition to being more expensive. Though I gotta say, Zc3 is pretty amazing for what you get for the $99 MSRP (or KS buy-in).

    I'm not sure that a "deluxe" version works economically, outside of Kickstarter. If the game is fundamentally Euro, based on tokens and counters, and you're upgrading some of those counters and tokens to minis and such, then you're basically taking necessary volume away from the minis production run, vastly increasing the cost of the deluxe version relative to the game itself. And if the core game is designed around the concept of having minis, then their removal makes the game cheaper and worse. I think it's a lose-lose strategy, compared to a pure printed game or a game with some number of minis designed into it. At least, up to the point that the minis count is in the dozens and you're now bumped up to a $75 or $99 MSRP. Or, if you're doing a "super-deluxe" with hand-cast resin, I think you look at a $100+ game vs a <$40 game - a 3x price increase to have resins. Very niche for a new, non-established game. Really, I think these kind of things only work on Kickstarter where one can control pricing and assess volume and limit sales vs committing to the public.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/25 23:00:48


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    It is indeed beneficial to both and something the digital nature helps a lot to do.

    Pig iron illustrates the problems the classic medium has.
    There are definitely quite a few benefits to digital sculpting. It makes it easier when you need to update or improve on 'dated' sculpts. It also lets you utilize pieces and save some time in sculpting. Although we might have to scrap some of the digital sculpts we acquired, all of the concept art itself is really good. Strictly speaking if the only use we get out of it is the artwork, then it still ends up being worth it to us.

    With PI we were more interested in the vehicles and the designs, since they weren't tied to a particular IP but generic enough to improve on. Had we secured those, we would have eventually used their designs but transitioned them to digital and update the sculpts. We also would have probably switched from metal to resin casting for the majority of the line. The design updates and changes would however had taken a lot more dollars than if they were digital to begin with.



    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    IMO, miniatures board games kind of need to be Kickstarted due to the higher fixed initial development and tooling cost, against an unknown production run / sales volume. Much moreso than any print and play type game, or game with abstract components like chits or meeples. ....<snip>
    I definitely agree and you'll start to see and notice a shift in gaming companies. There are previously two routes to publication (if you don't consider self-publication) Kickstarter and having a publisher pick you up. Even if the publisher picks you up, there is a risk for them if the game ends up not doing well. They do have the experience to market and predict that fairly well, but they still make mistakes. Now someone who successfully ran a Kickstarter campaign, has a customer base and it is easy to see the popularity of a game. It is for this reason many publishers have started to pick up people to publish from the list of successful Kickstarters. For example Renegade Games picked up Lanterns: The Harvest Festival after a successful Kickstarter campaign and they can't keep it on the shelves. I think they are in their 5th reprint of the game.

    I do love Zombicide 3. So far it has been one my families favorite. Although I haven't had a chance to really dig into Black Plague yet.

    Our board game isn't a Euro game, it is more in the line with SDE, Zombicide style of game. I don't think it has or needs a high miniature count like Zombicide, because it isn't a horde of zombies. Spawning isn't done the same way so you don't have groups that keep spawning at the end of the turn, so it isn't a horde.

    Kickstarter is definitely a good place to testing those markets in a controlled environment. It lets you know how much you have to create and order while getting a sample for the demand. It may be that in the long run the smaller version doesn't have as big of a market. I do think there is room for both. Often there many people I have played and demo'd Zc3/SDE whom they love it, we have a great time. They would like to own it, but they would never drop the amount to buy it. The reason I often hear was, "if there was a version without miniatures or less that was cheaper". They aren't painting the miniatures, they don't care about the miniatures, they could have been cheap pieces of armymen for all they care. Meanwhile a good portion of us miniature gamers love them because of that reason. Even if that market is only 20%, I'd gladly take 200 backers and customers on top of the other 1000 who want the miniatures. I don't see why there isn't room to meet both sides without making it worse or a lose-lose situation. Keep in mind Zc3 and SDE although designed around miniatures, not having miniatures doesn't impact the gameplay. They still function normally gameplay wise. However for us miniature gamers they would be worse, but only because the miniatures are what draws us to them in the first place. It is what initially gets our interest, then the rules help keep us there.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/26 02:41:48


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Yeah, it's interesting (and good!) seeing Ninja Division publishing successful KS games. As a competitive counterpoint to CMoN, if nothing else.

    I get that your game isn't Euro. As I see it, you're in the $50-75 range, where you want a couple handsfuls of minis, but not dozens in the box. That's an interesting price point, as I'd kinda want to slim it to a $50 starter, with extra mini expansion packs.

    I'm a little surprised about people not buying Zc3, as you can get that pretty cheap on eBay. I agree that those games are technically playable without the minis, and one could simply buy the tiles and print the rulebook, along with the dashboards. But it wouldn't look or feel the same with standees or meeples.

    Also, from the other thread:
     Dark Severance wrote:
     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    It's not a question of "quick and easier", it's a question of playable vs unnecessarily reinventing the wheel. That's what the overwhelming majority of rulesets do. Except they then decide to "improve" the wheel by mounting it off-center. Or adding bumps. Or changing the shape from a circle to a square. And then there's this ridiculous push for exotic d10s, just to be different. Newsflash: if the game engine is actually good, it works just fine with d6s and doesn't need d10s.

    That isn't to say that your game is going to be bad. But a lot of these games are bad due to the addition of "features" to make their game more "special".
    That is true, often times what one person may think is streamline adds other complications. I use D10s mainly because it is easier to adjust stat lines, at least for me. Although Personally I'd rather use D20 but they become bulky if you are going to roll more than 4 at a time.


    IMO, if your game design is really supposed to be d20s, then go d20! Yes, the die is larger, but it rolls smoother, and gives finer-grained variation in results. And do you really need to roll 5 or more at once? How often does that come up in regular play?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/26 04:41:09


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    That's an interesting price point, as I'd kinda want to slim it to a $50 starter, with extra mini expansion packs.
    The bad thing though to get there I would probably have to do plastic which we aren't doing at this time. I would like to aim for something like that. The other issue is we're focusing on resin miniatures, which means assembly and that is where I lose board gamers as well. They would want something that is one piece. I do have a couple meetings while at Origins Game Fair set up so I might still be able to work something out... but I tend to think and plan conservatively.

    Keep in mind though a lot of the people I'm talking about don't order from eBay or online. They buy, shop and play in the local game stores. The store has board game Sundays and on some saturdays I'm doing demos, trying to get bring more board gamers into a miniatures verse. It is starting to become easier to at least hook RPG players who are starting to paint and get miniatures for their RPG campagins though.

     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    But it wouldn't look or feel the same with standees or meeples.
    I agree definitely. But I think that is because we're miniatures people. There is a group of people who wouldn't care either way. And if I can meet both sides and bring them together, then that would be great. However the focus will be on great miniatures, I won't dumb down the game or make them play a certain way so I can cut costs. If it became a choice, I would choose the miniatures but at this time I think I can meet the two markets.

     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    IMO, if your game design is really supposed to be d20s, then go d20! Yes, the die is larger, but it rolls smoother, and gives finer-grained variation in results. And do you really need to roll 5 or more at once? How often does that come up in regular play?
    It wasn't designed technically with d20s in mind, it just makes percentages easier to tweak when dealing with 5% vs 10%. I think long term d20 can provide more variety to troops and styles but we're still testing. It doesn't come up too often but we've been playing with just basic weapons: shotgun, assault rifle, heavy machine gun, grenade launcher, rockets, pistols, blades. We've started to roll in Psionics which can boost dice pools or subtract, essentially buff and debuff.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/26 05:38:12


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    The business of crossing boardgamers with miniatures wargamers to capture both markets is very challenging. I think CMoN has the right of it by making everything 1-piece models with no assembly required.

    I wish you a lot of success, as there really aren't a lot of non-GW success stories in that intersection of build-and-play.

    Oh, if it's not integral, then nevermind. The nice thing about d6 is that you make clear decisions and bucketize very quickly.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/26 10:12:49


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    I think CMON sculpts are pre-assembled at factory, true they have one piece sculpts in zombieside and many in their bloodrage and I think the others are, but both of these games have a lot of multi part pieces, arcadia is mostly multi part pre-assembled (if not all).

    The boardgame crowd seems to change perspective in the last decade and starts to demand miniatures, Argo is an interesting test on that two good names making an interesting game that on the first implementation, cheap with standees, hit the wall of "why not plastic minis?".

    I feel the demand for miniatures (plastic and pre-assembled) will become more and more prominent for boardgames in the future, an interesting experiment will be HINT that tests how much a boardgame with unassembled metal miniatures can stand on its legs, initial reaction from Essen was not that promising Megacons mercs vs myth will also be important to see how does a boardgame with assembled miniatures vs a game with unassembled miniatures stands (initial data from 1st edition SDE indicates not that great).


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/26 16:20:03


    Post by: Alpharius


    Ultimately, you've got to balance staying true to your design, hopefully bring something new to the market, make it fun, etc., all the while being sure to not give in to the temptation (however great or small) to listen too much to 'vocal minority' types either.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/02/26 17:57:07


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    CMoN & ND learned very clearly from SDE 1.0 that boardgamers do not build minis. The feedback from that was loud and clear, and not a single SDE set has required assembly since then, with King Starfire being the only exception.

    While I understand the interest in catching both markets, I think it is a strategic mistake for anybody targeting the boardgame crowd to require boardgamers to build any minis that are more complex than a GW 2-part "push gun into chest" model.

    With 4 years of Zombicide, etc. raising the bar for components, the expectation of "no assembly required" minis is not unreasonable from the boardgame crowd, although I wonder how far it will go.

    Alphy has it right that the designer should stay true to the concept, and incorporate minis (or not) as per the design.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/11 22:10:54


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I am still on a holding pattern. 3d masters are printing and being cleaned up. They will be doing test fittings, which means I'm still waiting on pictures. Once that is complete they go into resin casting for an initial test run. That means I'm still waiting on final numbers to determine budgeting, estimations for a full production and for expansion of additional miniatures beyond the initial set of 10 we've done. I'm also waiting for edits and updates to documentation from an editor.

    We did acquire access to various 2d artwork and 3d models assets from another companies unsuccessful launch. There was a lot of artwork to sort through, including many 3d models already developed. They were about 60% away from having full production on a fairly robust miniatures set. his allows us to expand our own product line quicker without any huge upfront development costs for character design, artwork and 3d sculpting. The downside is we do end up paying a % of sales of products created from those assets but considering someone else paid for the initial development, that is a fair trade.

    There will have to be some changes in our existing lines to make room. We will still also need to invest an amount to finalize, adjust and change the sculpting on most of those acquired assets. This will mainly ensure that we properly integrate the designs so they don't seem out of place, adjust the scale to put it more in line with our choices and add our own changes to them to make them more our own. However for what we obtained, the cost of that is significantly smaller than what would be needed to create it all from scratch.

    It is hard to do a lineup when all the art is in various stances and angles. This will serve as a rough chart, I will modify and make a better looking one later. I only had access to GIMP instead of Photoshop at my current location and some things are missing from the picture as I only had them in .PSD format at this time.


    From left to right: Current Gen Power Armor (United Republic), 1st Gen Power Armor (Outer Rim Pact), Medium Armored Soldier (Federated Commonwealth), Light Armor Soldier (Federated Commonwealth), Cyberoid (Shingen Empire), Light Armor Scout (Anazi Dynasty), Light Armored Soldier (Europa Confederation), Psion (Europa Confederation), Light Armored Scout (Anazi Dynasty).

    Multiple miniatures companies and lines have slowly been having a size creep, heroic 28mm has slowly been becoming 32mm. I have noticed less outcry when new lines have been 35mm, then a couple years ago when there was a much more vocal complaint. The acceptance for 35mm miniatures is probably due to the fact that they have been comparing fairly well against 28/30mm miniatures of newer lines.

    Our miniatures will measure 32mm from the bottom of their feet to the eyes, if it was standing straight up and not posed. That is one advantage with digital sculpting is to help ensure better control for sizes across the lines, creating less discrepancies. For us we translate that an average human male is 5'10" and although we're measuring from the base to eyes, 32mm essentially translates into 5'10" to the top of their head. In our design phase while the sculpts are in T-Poses, we can ensure that sizes translate properly.

    This is a rough estimate just from the top of my head, so it isn't fully accurate just like the rough size chart above. The idea is so you can see slightly changes between males, females and armor types. A human male would be 32mm, but a human female would be 30mm from base of foot to eyes as they are 5'6". That doesn't mean all females would be that way, but a good portion tend to be shorter on average unless they were genetically engineered humans. Ideally the power armor should match the correct scale and be around 35mm-38mm from base to eyes. I still need to play with the 3d files more to verify that, we want to ensure that size-wise the miniature would fit within the power armor not simply exaggerate to make it bulky.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/11 22:25:34


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    35mm "natural" is fine, matching Kingdom Death; I like the look of KD:M 35mm natural far better than GW / WMH 28-30mm "heroic".

    The cyberoid is too short - should be 50mm to the "eyes" to look in scale with the rest (volume should be comparable to the Medium Armored Soldier).


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/11 22:36:49


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    The cyberoid is too short - should be 50mm to the "eyes" to look in scale with the rest (volume should be comparable to the Medium Armored Soldier).
    Yeah there are a few things that are off. I'm not that good at using GIMP and for some reason grid, ruler and snap to ruler guide weren't matching up properly. When I get home I'll work on a better version in Photoshop and then update/swap out the image. I just wanted to try to figure out how I wanted to lay it out.

    What I would like to do is on the left side I'd put a ruler with actual unit height probably in 1ft increments. Then on the right side do a height measurement ruler from base of foot to eyes, marking off 28, 30, 32 and then a larger part. Maybe just 28mm, 32mm and larger height. Then keep the main 32mm line in the background like it is across the whole chart. Then swap out concept art for the 3d render image, since it would be a lot more accurate.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/11 22:58:49


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    OK, no problem. BTW, the baseline should probably be the heels, not the toes...


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/11 23:04:34


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    That's not a bad lineup at all.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/11 23:28:57


    Post by: Alpharius


    REALLY looking forward to this one!

    (Did you get my last PM?)



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/11 23:30:17


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    OK, no problem. BTW, the baseline should probably be the heels, not the toes...
    Hehehe, yes definitely. That is why I mentioned it is hard to do a line up when everything has a different physical stance. That is why I would want to swap out artwork for actual 3d renders since a front view would be a complete front straight view, not at an above angle looking down or back, depending on the perspective of the drawing. This was meant as a rough ouline but definitely keep the suggestions coming.

    The way the artwork is drawn is to show all the aspects from the forward view. The back view is probably more accurate that the heal is at zero, but doing rear views although funny, doesn't show the lineup with the eyes properly. The only one that is a true straight front view, not in a stance or strange angle to show the designs is the Psion (2nd from the right). Even then the flat part of her foot, the heel is actually visually still slightly above the top of the toes. That is why she sits on the line, going slightly over it though.

    The concept art won't be 100% accurate either, there are some design changes that go from it to actual 3d sculpting. The Cyberoid, although I like the various art for the design, the torso and limbs are too thin for my tastes. I can choose make him taller than the average human like he is shown, but bulk him more or shrink him a bit smaller which may result in bulking him some as well. However I wouldn't do that at the risk of making him look stubby, he should have a natural look. That is where the touch up and redesigns will come in effect.

    I do have a better picture of the Current Gen Power Armor too but it is in PSD format. I'll create a better silhouette with that, so it isn't standing off at a side angle which will line up better visually.

    I will also want to make the lineup a bit bigger, probably spaced out a little more between the designs. Ultimately I'd like to label who is what as we continue to develop them further.

     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    That's not a bad lineup at all.
    Thank you! Putting the artwork side by side though, definitely lets me see where some things need to bulk up, other parts need to adjust sizes. I should get the 3d human naked model that the initial line was sculpted on and add that. That will help me determine that proportionally arms, legs, torso are the correct sizes so I don't get a stumpy heroic look.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Ok here is an updated version. There are still a few things that aren't correct and will need to be adjusted either the concept art or simply during sculpting. Once those are corrected then I can swap the correct version into the lineup to make it work out. Later on I'll probably do an actual redo of the whole lineup with 2d artwork that was actually designed for the purpose of a group picture like this. None of the art was really created with that in mind so stances, poses, etc are off.

    Version 1.5


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 01:54:05


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Ok here is the 2.0 Version of the Size Chart. This is still very much a work in progress, it is still difficult when dealing with different artwork that have different facings, head tilt and stances to approximate them. I tried to line up at least one of the heels with the base of the wall they are lined up against. Once we truly finalize everything I will probably have the artists do an actual Lineup all in similar stances and poses. I could also simply swap out the 2d versions for the 3d versions as well.

    The darker silhouettes aren't closely finalized, those all need updates to them which is why they are dark silhouettes. Some of the drawings were done with heroic scale in mind, so they'll have to be adjustments to parts of their bodies as well. This was actually pretty fun to do.


    Left to Right: Light Infantry Scout 3d (AD), Light Infantry Scout 2D (AD - male), Light Infantry Scout (AD - female), Medium Infantry (EC), Light Infantry Scout (EC), Psion Version-A (EC), Psion Version-B (EC), Light Infantry (UR), Light Infantry (FC), Heavy Infantry (FC), 1st Gen Power Armor (FC)


    Left to Right: Light Infantry Scout 3d (AD), Mecha (UR), Heavy Infantry (EC), Light Infantry, Medium Infantry, Light Infantry (UR), Light Infantry (FC), Heavy Infantry (FC), 1st Gen Power Armor (FC), 2nd Gen Power Armor (FC), Current Gen Power Armor (UR).

    The mecha is really generic and will be undergoing quite a few changes. Just wanted to get it into the picture to show the varying sizes between the troops. 1st Gen Power Armor is closer to a mecha as the pilot sits within a harness. 2nd Generation Power Armor (size needs to be increased slightly more) is more like an actual suit of armor. It isn't as powerful as 1st Gen since it is more like an exo-skeleton but it is more mobile. It was decommissioned and demilitarized to use for harsh environment mining. Federated Commonwealth mostly made up of miner organizations, utilized the Corers for their military. Current Gen Power Armor was increased in size to increase strength, it is stronger than 1st gen and more mobile making use of the latest tech. They chose the current size because some of the aliens that were encountered were large.


    Left to Right: Light Infantry Scout 3d (AD), Cyberoid (SE), Astaria (male), Astaria (female), Nanophage, Wyrm/Char'iza Version A, Wyrm/Char'iza Version B, Current Gen Power Armor (UR).


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 07:34:33


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    OK, that looks great.

    The rifleman Dreadnought with dual Heavy Assault Cannons could actually stand to be larger, as the cockpit looks a little small, even if you assume primarily female pilots. Also, the mecha needs more substantial feet, as the ground pressure looks way too high for they sort of game you're making. And the Assault Cannon barrels are way too large unless they are grenade launchers / mortars.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 09:42:52


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Looking quite good, 4 meters for the top height of a humanoid sized mech is what my belief is for the limit is for such vehicles.

    I tend to want them on 2,5 - 3 meters but 4 is my top limit.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 16:15:34


    Post by: Alpharius


    Loving everything so far - and really loving that you've got a vision and are sticking to it, with tweaks were appropriate and necessary!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 17:20:05


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    ... the cockpit looks a little small, even if you assume primarily female pilots. Also, the mecha needs more substantial feet, as the ground pressure looks way too high for they sort of game you're making. And the Assault Cannon barrels are way too large unless they are grenade launchers / mortars.
    The size is a rough approximate, it will be adjusted once we finalize the designs. Unfortunately mecha will be focused on later, not in the beginning. The focus will be on the various infantry and power armor but we want to keep in mind the mecha sizes as we continue to test and design.

    For the cockpit size we started with Air Force height and weight requirements for their pilots which are 65"(5'5") - 77"(6'5") tall, 34"(2'10") - 40"(3'4") tall when sitting. They have to weigh 160-231 pounds, depending on their height. The Air Force cockpit is smaller than what we've done for the mecha. We also combined Air Force cockpits sizes and accommodations with the size and design of Japan's Kuratas robot. That was at least how we initially came to approximate sizes we have now.

    Here is another mecha concept that was similarly based on that Kuratas core. Not sure which direction or what we wil do until we finalize more of the infantry and armor designs to integrate.


    The barrels are definitely too large for me, it is one of the changes we'll be looking at. I believe the original design they were plasma/laser cannons based on the size of a GAU-8 30mm rotary cannon mounted on the A-10 Thunderbolt II. They were a laser/plasma design that rotated the barrels to prevent issues with overheating the barrels and weapon. We may be looking at arms with hands and utilizing more modular mounted vehicle weapons instead.

    The feet are bigger but it is hard to tell since I have everyone standing in front, so you don't see the side angle as much. All that is visible of the talon parts to spread weight distribution of the foot and balance stabilizers, so it tends to look like crow feet.



    We haven't decided on what we'll do for the feet. I'm a fan of tracked, wheeled style for movement but I also like traditional blocky stompy feet. It will most likely come down to the role that the mecha play in combat and the mobility of them compared to infantry and power armor.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 18:26:47


    Post by: Alpharius


    I prefer stompy feet over tracked mechs all day every day!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 19:26:44


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    OK, it was a little hard to tell for sure, thanks for clarifying.

    Also, agree with Alphy that feet >> trax.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/13 20:08:36


    Post by: Dark Severance


    STARTING FROM SCRATCH

    While I'm in a holding pattern waiting to hear from production, artists and editor... I like to take a break from writing and do a little creative exercise that I call "Scratch Sessions".

    It is near impossible to create a game in a vacuum without a conscious or even subconscious interference from outside influences. That means that although a rules set or even history might seem to be unique and different, chances are it has aspects from other systems already. There is nothing technically wrong with that but I want to be sure that I'm not creating a reskinned clone and that my game designs meet the goal of the project.

    I will either take my notebook or open up a fresh document and start creating a new system from scratch. I don't mean throw out all the work you've done, this is more of a creative exercise to make sure I've covered all the aspects I'm looking to create. Is there some method to simplify a mechanic or maybe I found a need to add a new mechanic. Time to start theory crafting.

    ATTRIBUTES

    I have to figure out how I want the individual units and fireteams to accomplish or determine that they succeeded with an action. The most common method is to create attributes that are assigned values, those values help determine if you succeed or fail.

    There should be a difference in movement between someone in light armor, heavy armor or power armor. If this was an RPG movement is usually determined through a formula utilizing various physical attributes like strength, dexterity or some based on racial. I know that I want units to have the ability to move at a normal speed, sprint, slower movement for cautious movement. So for now we know we need the following attributes.

    MOV (Movement) : This attribute is fairly self explanatory. The value determines how far a unit will move in inches.
    WND (Wound) : This attribute is also self explanatory. The value determines how much damage a unit can take before it is considered unconscious, incapacitated or dead.

    There are different ways to do attacks for units. Each unit could have specific attacks or 1-2 attack values which effect attacks. For a simplified method one attack value could represent the units ability and proficiency to deal damage with ranged, melee and other weapons. Although it simplifies things, it doesn't create a lot of differences between units. I would like one unit who is better with ranged attacks but may be weaker at close range. I also want thrown weapons or physical attacks to not simply just be based on a weapon stat.

    We also have Psionic abilities to consider. Psionic powers aren't simply extensions of ranged/melee attacks. They aren't utilized like Magic to simply throw a fireball or do a different attack. Some of the things we want psionics is similar to buff/debuff, create different types of movement as well as possession/mind control. In a fireteam of 3-4 units, you could choose to have the units simply shoot or you could have two Psions focus to boost the attack or defense of a focused target. Some units could get different types of movement like "Blinking" which lets them basically teleport to point A to B. This is useful for bypassing terrain like walls or moving from inside a building to outside as well as bypassing or limiting the opponents ability to have responsive fire. Having a psionic user also means those fireteams have less options for weapons than a standard unit.

    For now we'll start with the following Attributes which will allow different units to be more defined for the roles they are intended.

    RNG (Range Skill) : The range skill determines the ability to utilize ranged weapons. Ranged weapons can include rifle, sniper rifle, machine gun.
    CQC (Close Quarters Combat Skill) : The Close Quarters Combat skill determines a units ability to utilize close range weapons and fighting styles. Close Quarter weapons could be melee weapons like swords, knives or even hand to hand combat.
    PHY (Physical Prowess) : The Physical skill determines the physical attributes of a unit like strength, dexterity, stamina and reaction. It can be used to throw something accurately like a grenade, or dodge an incoming attack or properly land during a combat drop.
    MEN (Mental Power) : Mental Power is what represents a units mental attributes like intelligence, wisdom, courage under fire. It can be used to maintain fireteam stablity, not run away from combat as well as how strong psionic abilities and powers can be used or defended against.
    ARM (Armor Value) : Armor Value determines just how powerful and how much protection a unit has.

    Armor is an interesting attribute. It can be used simply to subtract a value from the total damage dealt. It also also simply be used to determine what weapons can deal damage. For example if it is an Armor Value of 2, then only weapons then only Type 2 weapons or more are effective so a pistol and knife may do no damage. I am not usually a fan of the simplified method.

    I believe in modern warfare every weapon is created to maximum lethal capacity. In most cases all weapons are lethal despite armor unless you start mixing in heavy vehicles so isn't technically a necessary stat so it could be stripped entirely. It however can also provide a good balance to limit luck, making rolls not completely luck but stabalizing the balance between luck and skill within a game. One method is to use it to determine saving rolls, which can be used to limit damage dealt by someone who is on a lucky rolling streak. For now we'll keep it in place unless it proves to be too bulky.

    DICE AND VALUE

    Now that I figured out my base attributes. I need to figure out what values to give them and how they'll determine successes. One base staple is D6, almost everyone has them and they are easy to use and different ways to use them. Without introducing any modifications to target numbers, one simple method to utilize and determine successes is to roll greater than a target value. The attribute can determine what that target value is or it can simply indicate how many dice to roll. It really depends on what you want to accomlish and their relation to other abilities, skills and weapons. If the value determines rolling more dice then the base probability below gets modified depending on how many dice you roll.

    Roll ≥ 1: 100% | Roll > 1: 83% (critical failure on 1)
    Roll ≥ 2: 83% | Roll > 2: 66%
    Roll ≥ 3: 66% | Roll > 3: 50%
    Roll ≥ 4: 50% | Roll > 4: 33%
    Roll ≥ 5: 33% | Roll > 5: 16%
    Roll ≥ 6: 16% | Roll > 6: 0% (critical succcess on 6)

    NOTE: This is a simplified version of probability for dice. There are specific formulas for probability and generators which show you the amount based on the type of dice and how many you want to roll.

    For board games I tend to favor and like D6. There isn't a lot of various between skills, characters and actions. There is a different type of momentum for board games that tend to favor go big and taking chances. When you fail it can have a big impact. For a skirmish game I would want there to be less reliance on rolling, with more of a emphasis on deployment, movement and proper application of skills combined with rolling. I want there to be a bigger variety between units so I will start with D10.

    Roll ≥ 1: 100% | Roll > 1: 90%
    Roll ≥ 2: 90% | Roll > 2: 80%
    Roll ≥ 3: 80% | Roll > 3: 70%
    Roll ≥ 4: 70% | Roll > 4: 60%
    Roll ≥ 5: 60% | Roll > 5: 50%
    Roll ≥ 6: 50% | Roll > 6: 40%
    Roll ≥ 7: 40% | Roll > 7: 30%
    Roll ≥ 8: 30% | Roll > 8: 20%
    Roll ≥ 9: 20% | Roll > 9: 10%
    Roll ≥ 10: 10% | Roll > 10: 0%

    On the surface there isn't a lot of difference between having a value of 2 or 5 that you have to roll greater than or equal to. With D6 rolling ≥ 2 is 83% success probability with ≥ 5 being 33%. With a D10 ≥ 2 is 90% and the equivalent to a 5 on D6 being 9 on a D10, so rolling ≥ 9 is 20%. There ends up being roughly a 10-13% difference depending on how you translate one version to the other. I would like there to be a difference between unit levels and experience so that a green soldier has a different rating than an experienced veteran. However I also want there to be different degree's of a green soldier transitioning to an experienced soldier.

    ≥ 10 (10%) - Untrained/Unskilled: There is a difference between someone who is untrained and unskilled vs someone who has training but not military experience. Since we have rules for "neutral" NPCs like civilians which can be possessed or become an enemy we have this level. Someone who is untrained would have the ability to inflict harm and succeed but not by a large amount.
    ≥ 9 (20%) - Green Recruit: There are multiple levels of inexperienced units. This represents new soldiers fresh from boot camp but not necessarily integrated into an effective unit.
    ≥ 8 (30%) - Green Rookie:
    ≥ 7 (40%) - Veteran:
    ≥ 6 (50%) - Grizzled Veteran:
    ≥ 5 (60%) - Elite:
    ≥ 4 (70%) - Experienced Elite:
    ≥ 3 (80%) - Ace:
    ≥ 2 (90%) - Demi-God:
    ≥ 1 (100%) - God:

    CONTESTED ROLLS

    I have a rough idea of values and how I want them to interact and translate into the units. From that I can create baseline units with stats and modify their Battle Value for each unit depending on their type. An Experienced Elite is 50% more effective than a Green Rookie, so they would cost twice as much as a normal Green Rookie. A Veteran isn't too much difference between a Green Rookie, so it may only have a 10% increased Battle Value. It however isn't just as cut and dry as that. The Green Rookie might be better at Close Quarters Combat compared to Ranged than the Veteran, but the Veteran is better at Ranged but not at CQC. If you are going to utilize CQC more, then going cheaper is better. You have to look at what equipment units have access too and their roles so Battle Value will have to be adjusted. It however makes it a good starting point.

    I do not prefer games where someone rolls successs, the opponent rolls saves and that determines what gets hit and takes wounds. I like combat to be more like an action movie and less like a chess game (in refering to combat resolution). There is a difference between active attack and snapfire/reactive attacks as well as overwatch. Combat is fluid and rarely is one side just holding doing nothing, while they are under fire (unless it is suppression). That is why the active player can choose to activate 1-3 units (units are individual characters or a fireteam), then it will alternate to the next player. In this essence there is action/reaction to not simply movement, but deployment and attacks as each side determines what to move and where. Some units might be able to be activated more than once, while others in order to activate a second time could mean giving them fatigue. Is that risk worth the reward, it can be to prevent a unit from being flanked.

    This allows players to have interaction with each other, not only through short turn sequences allowing them to act to players moves and attacks but through contested rolls.

    That is it for this scratch session. Whether we implment the above, integrate it or only take certain aspects depends on numerous factors. In some instances we've come up with some great mechanics, although it doesn't fit the particular game style we're creating. For example we have one game method that all units are unknown unless within LoS of an enemy unit and/or sensor. Initial deployment is nothing but tokens meant to show enemy locations as blips. Most blips represent one unit but there are a couple that could be multiple units or multiple blips may actually be one unit. Each token is assigned in the Army list what they represent. Your opponent could have a basic idea of what you are bringing based on your miniatures on the sideline but they won't know which token is that unit until they engage. Although it is a fun mechanic it doesn't suit the enivonrment for Code Zero. We've instead move that to a different project called Tact-Ops for now.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/14 11:19:42


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Funny thing you mentioned armour, I am toying with armour myself this morning

    There are 4 main schools of armour

    The preventive armour were the hit either can penetrate or have no chance at all

    The Buffer armour were the armour subtracts from the wounds scored

    And the random armour were each armour point rolls a dice that has the chance of cancelling the hit. (usually found in boardgames)

    And the roll to save armour were armour must meet a roll to save the target from the weapon

    Once mighty but fallen to obscurity is the ablative armour as seen on battletech, centurion I think? ( was that the name of that the game with grav tanks) and that alt history planes game. were armour is points (functioning hike hitpoints for each individual location really) that prevents damage from hitting the softer inner parts.

    The above are sometimes mixed to give more variable results, 40k for example has roll to save, mixed with preventive armour.

    Personally I am stuck in choosing what armour method I want for my games I feel buffer or random would be the way but buffer with random is intriguing too and I have to decide this before I finalize everything else.

    I also toyed a lot with preventive armour I think its a great mechanism, but I feel I need more practice with it.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/14 13:40:15


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    Personally I am stuck in choosing what armour method I want for my games I feel buffer or random would be the way but buffer with random is intriguing too and I have to decide this before I finalize everything else.

    I also toyed a lot with preventive armour I think its a great mechanism, but I feel I need more practice with it.
    Preventive armor was something that I found to create a difference in RPGs, used to promote different ways to resolve resolution than simply combat. It makes sense to a degree that is how armor should work realistically. As an example if someone was in protective armor, typically bows/arrows and melee weapons do no damage to the user. Guns above certain calibers with normal ammo would. The issue though it becomes a "why would you ever bring a bow user then? In games with magic or alternate means to resolve combat situations, it promoted a method to think outside of the box. That doesn't mean it can't be used in a miniatures game situation but there has to some reason to bring someone with a less powerful weapon vs just stacking defense.

    I can see a miniatures skirmish game using preventive effectively if the main focus is around deployment, then maneuvering and flanking. Maybe one method this can employ is a type where psionic/magic users have abilities that negate armor (mind attacks as example). Although they have lower powered weapons that don't penetrate armor, their abilities do. Maybe they have to attack with an ability which negates armor for X turns, then use their weapons. Their armor negates bows/basic knife weapons so an opponent needs someone with guns to take them out, forcing them to take a mix group of units. Then it becomes a matter of maneuvering properly. It still needs a lot of work but its a rough example. But yeah it was easier in RPGs because you could revert to charisma, traps, other non-combat skills to get around situations where traditionally in miniatures games it is combat.

    It really depends on play testing. There have been some mechanics and games where armor and savings roll bog things down and sometimes it is better to simply remove it. If I was a larger company with more employees and focusing full time on games, I'd probably do more testing to try to remove the mechanic entirely at least for modern or scifi miniatures skirmish games. That however means making sure balancing is dialed in near perfectly. Otherwise armor is a good balance to help counteract randomness and give a buffer to balancing stats.

    I have toyed back and forth, instead of having armor be a a save/cancel a hit, having it be essentially an extra wound. Someone with 0 armor is basic clothes, light armor 1, medium armor 2, etc. If they take a hit, it provides them an extra wound instead to eliminate rolling. But then the question becomes why not just give them the extra hit point and remove armor entirely. That was mostly because I was trying to employ a mechanic to fall back and have a doctor heal or engineer repair armor. I think it would probably make more sense in a mecha/vehicle based game instead of one centered around infantry.

    ---------------------

    Here are some weapon concepts designs. Along with the size charts I've been working on, I have to figure out which weapons will carry across the game and which ones won't. One of the issues when mixing in different game designs from another project is to ensure that the weapons fit into the universe. We have to determine what ones would work out with our current designs.



    These were for a more primitive slave caste, reconstructing crude weapons from what was cobbled together.




    These were designed with a more alien scifi style instead of based on traditional weapons.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/14 14:34:47


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Well you could use armour as additional hit points per hit but that would just make it a buffer armour.

    Buffer armour can be used as a variant preventive armour thinking about it, cutting different amount of damage per damage type/ weapon grade.

    Actually that could be an interesting solution to my issues.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/16 23:03:51


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Unfortunately still in a holding pattern. There was an error with the STL files, they were originally sized 35mm from the base of the feet to the eyes. We were talking about sizes when I stated I wanted them to be 32mm. Then we compared some other miniatures and sizes, one which was 35mm and I think somehow it got lost in translation. It was partly on me since I did approve them and the sample sheet does show 35mm block they used for sizing. Thankfully 3d printing wasn't finished and casting hadn't started yet so we put a pause on that. They are being resized and then I'll have to have new masters printed out, which delays things a bit more than I would have liked. At least there is a understanding of what I'm looking for so future issues should be avoided.

    In the meantime I decided to mess around with layout and formatting for the initial rulebook for an Alpha release. I'm still messing around with fonts, sizes, layout, and colors. Decided instead of a complicated graphic for the borders and details that I'll start out simple with some clean lines. The font size isn't too important as it'll be on PDF initially anyways so there is always a way to zoom in.







    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/29 20:54:09


    Post by: Dark Severance


    In our play-testing with a new playgroup we encountered an issue that has not been until now. Most of the testers we've been playing with have been miniatures gamers or at least those that have had experience with miniatures games. This new group was mostly board gamers, some TCG players but have had no real experience with miniatures games. They unfortunately had trouble with one of the basic concepts when dealing with Head to Head roll-offs. When there are multiple units that are acting at the same time, there is a contested roll that is made by both players to see how the actions resolve.

    For an example we'll say the following players had two characters with the following attributes:
    Player A - Ranged: 6, Physical: 7
    Player B - Ranged: 7, Physical: 4

    The base to hit number a player wants to roll greater than or equal in order to succeed is based on their skill they are using. Then if there are any modifiers, depending on range or abilities, they would modify the target to succeed. For simplicity we'll say there are no modifiers in play.

    The active Player A is shooting at Player B, so he would be rolling 4d10 trying to roll a 6 and higher to succeed based on his Ranged skill. The reactive Player B decides to respond by shooting back so would roll 2d10 trying to roll a 7 or higher to succeed. Both players roll their dice, first determining how many success were rolled.

    Player A rolled 4, 2, 7, 9
    Player B rolled 3, 8

    The results 3 and 4 don't succeed so we ignore them. That leaves Player A with 2 successes and Player B with with 1 success. We determine if any results cancel each other. Successful rolls higher than the other players success could cancel them out. Starting with the lowest success, Player A's 7 is canceled by Player B's 8. Then Player A's 9 cancels out Player B's 8 resulting in Player A scoring one hit against Player B. Player B would roll an armor save to determine if he takes a wound or not.

    Player A rolled 4, 2, 3, 8
    Player B rolled 3, 8

    The results 2, 3, 4, and 4 are not successes so we ignore them. Player A and Player B both have an 8, since none is higher than the other they do not cancel and are both considered a hit. Player A ends up shooting Player B with one hit and vice versa. They both now roll an armor save to determine if they take a wound or not.

    Trying New Things

    You should never be afraid to try out new mechanics or attempt to simplify things. The issues we had resulted in a discussion about whether we to simply try to explain it better and make the rules clearer with examples or if we should change the mechanics for those situations. Ultimately we have to decide do the rules still meet the requirements for our game.

    In one aspect for miniature gamers it should be fairly initiative and easy to transition too. After doing it a few times it is easy to get the hang of it. However do we hurt ourselves by simply accepting that instead of finding a new solution. The end result was us testing a new mechanic to simplify things and streamline them a bit more.

    We have been trying to stay away from custom dice but this made us revisit a design we had tabled early on. Taking a page from XWing and are utilizing 2 different sets of dice, we created Red d10 for attack dice and Blue d10 for defense dice. This does mean we have to change some of the attributes.

    For an example we'll say the following players had two characters with the following attributes:
    Player A - Ranged: 4, Physical: 5
    Player B - Ranged: 5, Physical: 2

    The active Player A is shooting at Player B, so he would be rolling 4d10 attack dice. The reactive Player B can choose to dodge with 2d10 blue defense dice (physical trait) or attack with 2d10 red attack dice (ranged / 2). He chooses to also use attack dice. Modifiers now operate a bit differently, instead of modifiers changing the 'target to hit' it could subtract or add dice to their base dice pool. So if Player A was in optimum range, he might be rolling 5d10 instead. For the example though we'll assume no modifiers are applied.

    Player A rolled 1 shield, 1 energized, 2 hits
    Player B rolled 1 shield, 1 energized

    Immediately there is no checking to hit or having to figure out which success is higher than another. It is immediate to see 2 successful hits. This does change mechanics a bit. For example Player B has a psionic ability, "Premonition" which previously would let him reroll a failed roll. In this aspect we modified it to utilize the "energized" dice facing, which he can use to change the results of one of the hits to something else. He couldn't utilize it to change a critical hit though.

    We still haven't decided if we'll be switching to that. There are pro's and con's by doing it. It however does provide other ways to apply mechanics like how to do something 'else' with Psionics without it simply being a buff/debuff or an attack power. Trying to find the right balance of dice, what is on each facing will also be a new thing for us.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/29 21:01:39


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    If you are making a game, Custom dice all the way!

    I really love the Super Dungeon Explore / Conan dice model, of 3 tiers giving results of No to 4 pips, with a "special" face. That's a nice numerical system with a lot of granularity.

    The alternative is Command and Colors a la Battlelore / M44 / Battlecry, with special symbols on each facing (which are really 0-0-0-retreat-hit-special).


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/29 21:24:34


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    If you are making a game, Custom dice all the way!

    I really love the Super Dungeon Explore / Conan dice model, of 3 tiers giving results of No to 4 pips, with a "special" face. That's a nice numerical system with a lot of granularity.

    The alternative is Command and Colors a la Battlelore / M44 / Battlecry, with special symbols on each facing (which are really 0-0-0-retreat-hit-special).

    Early on we did entertain something like SDE/Conan with different types of dice. Red was ranged actions/abilities, blue for psionic actions/abilities and green for physical actions/abilities. We started with D6 but couldn't find a right balance for how to determine successes and head to head resolutions. We started with a certain number of pips, adding those up could have different results. There were other designs on the other dice facings that did other things. Although great for a board game, it provided a bit more randomness than we wanted with the dice.

    We then switched to d10 and a more traditional system. That has worked out well. But the goal isn't to just simply make another skirmish game. I want to aim for people like my wife, who likes board games but not so much miniatures games. She has actually enjoyed playing our game, but I think because she started at the ground up instead of just starting from scratch. After this last group brought up some questions and concerns we took a second look at things like what makes XWing popular and why do some people like board games with miniatures but not so much war games.

    Oddly one of the things that our groups didn't mind in RPGs, they did mind in miniatures games and that was bookkeeping. I mean figuring out to hit, modifiers, what to roll. That is probably due to the fact that in a RPG group, players normally ask a DM what they are rolling who could typically say, "Dexterity minus 3" or something like that. In what are viewed more competitive type games, they don't like to have to figure those things out. They just want to know, what dice and how many do I roll, then if they can see results clearly.

    This does resolve another issue we were working on which was how to handle psionic, mutant and cybernetic abilities/powers. Originally these were skills that some units have access too. It isn't something they can use all the time. We have switched from turning a card sideways when it is used, returning it back during start of next turn. We've tried various skill decks which was a microgame in itself. Now we can just have what would normally be blank sides on the d10, be something like "energized" or "shield" trigger or be used for other abilities.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/29 21:41:14


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    I can relate to the struggle I have way too many studies for custom dice on my design dossier, not happy with most of them.




    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/29 21:56:14


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


     Dark Severance wrote:
    Early on we did entertain something like SDE/Conan with different types of dice. Red was ranged actions/abilities, blue for psionic actions/abilities and green for physical actions/abilities. We started with D6 but couldn't find a right balance for how to determine successes and head to head resolutions. We started with a certain number of pips, adding those up could have different results. There were other designs that did other things. Although great for a board game, it provided a bit more randomness than we wanted with the dice.

    I want to aim for people like my wife, who likes board games but not so much miniatures games. She has actually enjoyed playing our game, but I think because she started at the ground up instead of just starting from scratch. After this last group brought up some questions and concerns we took a second look at things like what makes XWing popular and why do some people like board games with miniatures but not so much war games.

    Oddly one of the things that our groups didn't mind in RPGs, they did mind in miniatures games and that was bookkeeping. I mean figuring out to hit, modifiers, what to roll. That is probably due to the fact that in a RPG group, players normally ask a DM what they are rolling who could typically say, "Dexterity minus 3" or something like that. In what are viewed more competitive type games, they don't like to have to figure those things out. They just want to know, what dice and how many do I roll, then if they can see results clearly.

    This does resolve another issue we were working on, which is psionic, mutant and cybernetic abilities/powers. Originally these were skills that some units have access too. It isn't something they can use all the time. We've switched from turning a card sideways when it is used, returning it back during start of next turn.

    We've tried various skill decks which was a microgame in itself. Now we can just have what would normally be blank sides on the d10, be something like "energized" or "shield" trigger or be used for other abilities.


    IMO, having dice by attack type vs Weak / Average / Strong is probably where your d6 dice thing fell apart. Every psionic attack increments as 1x, 2x or 3x. Every ranged attack is 1x, 2x or 3x. Versus the granularity of WWW vs AA vs S. Or AW vs AS.

    That outreach to casuals / newbies is a very big part of the reason why KOG light is the way that it is.

    KOG light also limits bookkeeping and state tracking for very similar reasons. People are generally honest and don't like making mistakes. The game should be self-evident, with fewer questions to ponder, and less ambiguity in general. All non-refereed games have this issue, and the higher the game complexity, the more likely issues crop up.

    You don't use the copyrighted and trademarked "tap" terminology, do you?

    I assume you've played Legendary / Sentinels, right? Deckbuilding can basically be an entire game. Now that's fine, if you want. There is some argument that you expand the deckbuilding concept and put numbers on the cards like the 40k CCG / Sentinels / Malifaux for a "diceless" game.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/29 22:37:40


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    I can relate to the struggle I have way too many studies for custom dice on my design dossier, not happy with most of them.
    Since our skirmish game rules will be available for free, we really wanted it to simply be download rules, get dice, get miniatures and play the game. I was trying to stay away from having someone have to purchase "custom dice", they could technically just use their miniatures, dice and our rules (for testing at the very least). Sure I could just say 4-7=hit, 10=critical hit, 1-3=energized and 8-9=shield, if someone didn't want to use the custom dice.

     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    ...

    You don't use the copyrighted and trademarked "tap" terminology, do you?

    I assume you've played Legendary / Sentinels, right? Deckbuilding can basically be an entire game...
    Hehehe, correct we do not use the word tap. My main background is from World of Warcraft TCG which was 'Exhaust' instead of tap, which now HEX uses that term. I also used to play Magic so I'm aware of what WoTC has copyrighted and trademarked in that aspect. That was why I said "turn the card sideways", we also did flipping the card over.

    Yes I am definitely familiar with Deckbuilding games. I really enjoy deckbuilding games but I know not everyone likes them. There is a certain strategy and understanding that some players need to understand to play them. Casual players don't really get some of those and the differences between an experienced DBG vs a casual DBG can quickly become evident. That gap can be difficult to close, which is why even though I enjoy them, I don't want that to be a necessary component to the skirmish game.

    Now one of our board games does have a type of deck building, but it isn't a game in itself. It is a precreated skill/powers deck so it is more the motions of understanding deck building. The player draws a hand of 5, they can keep 1 in reserve but anything not used at the end of the main phase gets discard to the graveyard. At the start of turn, they draw back up to 5 cards in the hand or 4 if they kept 1 in reserve. It is more to understand what skills/powers to hold back, when to dump and timing on reshuffling the graveyard to get access back to those skills.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/29 22:48:35


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Just checking, didn't want you to get in trouble with the big guys.

    I agree that deckbuilding games aren't for everyone, especially as it requires a deep understanding of the deck itself to play well, so the player doesn't build into a bad strategy. Or, it needs a very well-crafted deck so a new player cannot be led into building a terrible position. Not easy.

    Personally, I'm happiest with cards as reference, with the caveat that ALL of the information needs to fit on the card, whatever size card it is, while the card is face-up.

    I am also OK with cards for command actions a la M'44 / Battlelore. That's a good compromise, distinct from deckbuilding as such. The nice part about card commands is that they tell the player what to do right there. Clean.
    ____

    Also, as your game rules will be free print-and-play, that also suggests d6s a la Cheapass Games.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/30 18:40:15


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    I am also OK with cards for command actions a la M'44 / Battlelore. That's a good compromise, distinct from deckbuilding as such. The nice part about card commands is that they tell the player what to do right there. Clean.
    We're trying to find a right balance for this. I am trying to have all relevant information on the main stat card for each unit. There are some different psionic abilities and equipment that can round out the units, those will probably be separate cards. Once a player knows the basic actions, moves, I'd like everything on the table to just work without need to reference the rule book. We however still want there to be a wide variety of actions and choices, not simply shoot and move.

    Also, as your game rules will be free print-and-play, that also suggests d6s a la Cheapass Games.
    There will be a rulebook for sale (for those that like physical books) for the actual skirmish game but that won't be for awhile. Sort of taking a lesson from Infinity in this aspect that there is a rulebook for sale, but there is also the rules online free in a .pdf format.

    Here are some designs we've messed around with:





    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/30 19:07:39


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    IMO, the designs are ever so slightly more ornate than what I might have expected. It's not obvious what is what, but if you only have 5 symbols, it should be OK. I'd avoid having more symbols than that to minimize confusion.

    If you're doing free core rules PDF, that's fine. I mistook the free PnP intent. Sorry for confusing things.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/30 21:05:03


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    IMO, the designs are ever so slightly more ornate than what I might have expected. It's not obvious what is what, but if you only have 5 symbols, it should be OK. I'd avoid having more symbols than that to minimize confusion.
    They are still a work in progress. These were just what we prototyped with for game initial testing. We wanted the design to be scifi, familiar and we weren't sure how detailed we could get with the d10.

    Currently attack dice have 4 hit (cross-hairs), 1 critical hit (circle-explosion), 3 energized (brain with lightning), 2 shield (hex shield). The defense dice have 4 shield (hex shield), 4 dodge (jagged arrow), 2 energized (brain with lightning).

    We're still messing with the ratio as we determine the different things we can do with the dice so that will probably change.

    Two players shooting at each other and both are rolling attack dice. Hits are obvious hits, critical are an obvious hit. Shield can negate an opponents hit but never cancels out a critical. Energized depending on the unit could simply count as a miss, but there are some abilities that could utilize it. Energized token could effect a future roll, be used for some psionic abilities to enhance/buff an attack or defense roll on another unit.

    Attack dice can also be used for psionic attacks, in which energized are successful hits except for critical which works for both ranged and psionic attacks. If two players are engaged in a psionic attack, shields are used to negate successful hits. That was one reason we wanted it a bit different than a basic physical shield because it can represent psionic defense or physical defense.

    Defense dice are used to physically dodge/evade physical attacks or can be used as a psionic defense. One player shooting, another player chooses to dodge instead then dodge can be utilized for dodge/evade which essentially negate hits, except for critical. If defending against a psionic attack then they would need shields to negate the successful hits. The energized are used for abilities and powers just like in the attack dice.

    That is the rough explanation. We're still messing with combinations or attack, defense scenarios trying to determine how to apply them for other tests like physical skill test, armor save test and moral/leadership test.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/30 21:25:06


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    I did not know that was a brain, to go with the crosshairs.

    For a d10 with 4 custom faces, I recommend a 4-3-2-1 distribution, as it allows you to clearly rank order the effects.

    For what you are doing, is there a reason why you need to distinguish brain vs crosshairs? And why there's no knife? If not, how about:

    Attack
    4 - hit
    3 - dodge
    2 - crit hit!
    1 - crit fail

    Defend
    4 - dodge
    3 - (blank)
    2 - hit!
    1 - critfail



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/30 22:36:46


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    I did not know that was a brain, to go with the crosshairs.

    For a d10 with 4 custom faces, I recommend a 4-3-2-1 distribution, as it allows you to clearly rank order the effects.

    For what you are doing, is there a reason why you need to distinguish brain vs crosshairs? And why there's no knife?
    The only difference between a ranged shooting attack and close quarters combat (knife) is the dice pool. Units could be more proficient at ranged than close quarters or equally trained, but their attribute would determine the base dice they would roll for their attacks. In close quarters combat, just like ranged, we are looking for hits so a crosshairs seemed a good representation for aiming.

    Yeah brain with lightning to represent energized/focus. I didn't want just lightning because I didn't want it to be confuse with the evade arrow. I also didn't want to use a eye because of XWing. It can be used for psionic checks, as well as leadership checks which have a different success ratio compared to physical/weapon attacks. That was why I didn't simply use 'hit' to indicate a successful test. There are abilities which might apply it to equivalent of a hit/shield or could do something else, giving more options to a player than simply... hit, cancel hit (dodge), crit and fail.

    What you suggested we sort of already for attack dice except we don't have a critical failure.
    Attack
    4 - hit : Hit, represents successful hits.
    3 - dodge : Energized, not a dodge but used for special abilities/psionics.
    2 - crit hit! : Shield, used to negate hits similar to a dodge.
    1 - crit fail : Critical Hit.

    The defense is a bit different. Although we could still do a 4, 3, 2, 1 distribution. We just haven't figured out if there is another application defense dice is applied to than what we currently have.
    Defend
    4 - dodge : Dodge, used to negate physical attacks.
    3 - (blank) : 4 Shields, used to negate psionic attacks and in some ability checks.
    2 - hit! : Energized, used to power special abilities/powers.
    1 - critfail : Don't have a representation for this yet. If we did a 1, we'd either shield or dodge by 1.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/03/30 23:47:09


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    If you can leverage the well-work crosshairs motif for shooting, why not a slightly different eye for psyker?

    It's OK to have a blank face for the critfail. Or a banana peel.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/04/08 00:03:24


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Since we've changed how we utilize dice, it has been an interesting to go through all the rules to make sure the changes we would like to do can be utilized. We have been running through various scenarios to make sure we've identified all the places we would utilize the dice and what dice would be used.

    We found a couple places that the custom dice don't work out well. For example scatter dice, we still need to have a basic numbered d10 to use with the scatter template. There isn't a clean way to utilize the custom dice for that. Since we still have a roll for initiative too that will work out. There may be other times in the future that a numbered die would need to be rolled as well. The other place we had to change was how we would do Armor saves and Leadership checks. It was simple when you had a base target number and then roll d10.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RANGED ATTACK: A Ranged Attack or Shoot Action utilizes the RNG Attribute, this represents the base number of dice to roll, before calculating modifiers. You would add/subtract d10 based on various modifiers like range, cover and abilities.

    CLOSE QUARTERS COMBAT: A Close Quarters Combat Action utilizes the CQC Attribute, this represents the base number of dice to roll, before calculating modifiers. This requires the models to be in Base to Base contact and is typically the result of using a melee weapon, martial arts, or equipment that requires Base to Base contact.

    -- RED d10 - Ranged and CQC Attacks would normally utilize the red d10. The Strength of a weapon or attack represents the rate of fire/burst which allows a player to distribute the dice between that many targets. If the Strength was 1, then only one model could be targeted. If the Strength was 3, then up to 3 different models could be targeted and it is up to the player to determine how many d10 from their pool they would distribute to each target.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PHYSICAL: Physical attributes is the embodiment and grouping of a units physical traits. It represents the unit's physical traits like dexterity, strength, stamina. If there are skill tests that require strength like throwing a grenade or jumping or stamina to save against fatigue, they would require the player to roll that many d10.

    MENTAL: Mental attributes is the embodiment and grouping of a units mental traits. It represents the unit's mental traits like willpower, wisdom and intelligence. If there are skill tests that utilize willpower like a courage test, intelligence test like investigation, or to utilize a successful psionic ability which would require the player to roll that many d10.

    -- BLUE d10 - Physical and Mental skill tests and saving rolls would normally utilize the blue d10. The attribute will identify the base number of dice to roll. Then you would apply any modifiers if any, looking for whatever symbol needed to pass that particular test. For example when making a Courage Test, they would roll blue d10 looking for successes which would be the Energized symbol.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    SAVE: Save represents a units ability to resist damage either through an ability or armor. It represents their ability to shrug off potential damage or be protected from damage. This is utilized for both Armor Saves and for Defense against hacking.

    -- BLUE d10 - Players would roll the 3d10 (Blue) looking for successful Shield rolls. They would take the number of successful Shield rolls and add the number for the Save Attribute, then compare it to the Damage of the attack. If the number is higher than the damage of the attack, then the saving roll is successful and the target receives no damage.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From our testing we decided instead of calling them Red Attack and Blue Defense Dice, the dice are simply just Red and Blue Ability/Attribute Dice. There are situations where you would roll red dice that aren't just related to simply attack and the same goes for the blue dice which would be for defense. To help identify what dice are rolled either the number on the card, a symbol, background color for the cell or a combination will identify what color and how many dice to roll.

    There are a lot of different types of short, long actions as well as abilities available in the game. Some may not be encountered in games, while others like shooting/close combat are present in every game. That meant we had to make a list of every situation where we would essentially roll dice.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/10 19:22:48


    Post by: Dark Severance


    It is crunch time as we work on finishing prototypes for a couple projects in prep for Origins Game Fair next month. There have been some finishing touches and modifications we've needed to do so most of the time has been with nose to the grindstone.

    Miniatures side of things hasn't slowed down. We have 3d printed off most of the masters for one of our first fireteams. There was an issue with a couple of the pieces 3d printing that had to be resolved, but that only took a day to do. They are being cleaned and should have pictures soon(tm). Then they will be cast for a small run. We still haven't worked out how we'll separate the pieces yet. Originally the idea was to have a single box, which had different weapon options and heads. When we changed to not have a separate head but a single torso/head that may have changed things. We could create two separate fireteams A and B or just do one fireteam. We won't know which direction until we get final production costs to see what we can work pricewise.

    So for now, until we get pictures of the 3d prints, here are more renders.
    ---------------------------------------------------

    Blinks also nicknamed "Devils" are the one of the Anazi Dynasty's best scouts and infiltration experts. They are fast moving units that have been specially trained for recon, survival and deployed in forward positions for infiltration, identifying military positions, sniping and surveillance. They prefer to engage from a distance, striking, moving, performing flanking maneuvers or capturing objectives. There have been few that have survived encounters with them and those that did were never the same. Rumors say they aren't human, they remember seeing nothing and then they were there with glowing eyes and horns before vanishing again.

    Blinks utilize specialized biotech created to interface with their mutation from harvesting genes from Gnarls. Gnarls are a deep space parasite that attaches to ships to drain their energy. In the region of space Anazi settled, they encountered them and started to harvest genetic material from them to use in their gene-splicing. There is a device that plugs into their spinal cord on their upper-back, interfacing with the gene, this allows them to create a small gravity field around them, letting them essentially become a black hole that transports them from point A to point B. It only works short distances and can't be used in constant conjunction, often shorting the lifespan of the user.

    Blink Scout; Light Infantry Fireteam (female 01) - Multi-piece miniature: torso/head A (missing horns, getting a new render), kneeling legs, arms with assault rifle, arms with sniper rifle, blade on belt, alternate torso/head B



    Blink Scout; Light Infantry Fireteam (female 02) - Multi-piece miniature: torso/head A (missing horns, getting a new render), legs apart, arms with assault rifle, arms with dagger and sword, blade on belt, alternate torso/head B



    Blink Scout; Light Infantry Fireteam (male 01) - Multi-piece miniature: torso/head A, legs apart, arms with swords, arms with pistol and sword, alternate torso/head B



    Blink Scout; Light Infantry Fireteam (male 02) - Multi-piece miniature: torso/head A, legs walking, arms with swords, arms with assault rifle and sword, alternate torso/head B



    Blink Scout; Light Infantry Fireteam (male 03) - Multi-piece miniature: torso/head A, legs apart, arms with assault rifle, arms with pistol and sword, alternate torso/head B




    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/10 19:34:09


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    I see that your universe has a DD-cup minimum. Even for female ranger types, which I'd normally expect to be lighter & leaner, rather than the big puppies I'm seeing. It's just a little incongrous for what is otherwise "hard" design.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/10 19:43:40


    Post by: Alpharius


    I thought your username and avatar...er...I don't know?

    Anyway, I don't think it will be that visible/obvious in 28/32mm scale.

    But maybe future female miniatures in the line will offer more variation there?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/10 19:51:57


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    I see that your universe has a DD-cup minimum. Even for female ranger types, which I'd normally expect to be lighter & leaner, rather than the big puppies I'm seeing. It's just a little incongrous for what is otherwise "hard" design.
    It actually doesn't but the Blinks were initially designed after two of my wife's characters from a book she has been working on. The main female character that the design was taken from was designed on my wife's frame which is actually a much larger cupsize.

    The first miniature based on her was the main reason but doesn't have bearing or representation of the universe, considering it is one miniature technically. Yes there are two females, they utilize the same frame due to finances. Since we're starting we couldn't spend money on creating two unique different female sculpts for the same fireteam, since that can be used on another design. If I had a bigger budget, I would have chosen to make them them vary more, even changing the males frame. Maybe someday.

    There will be some women, that probably the only way you can tell if they were women is based on their hair (assuming long hair means that) although painted they could probably pass as male. The heavy armor types, head sculpt will probably be the only way you'll tell a difference. The larger power suits, you wouldn't tell at all even with a head sculpt swap as they won't have a unhelmeted version. There would be an alternate helmet if we can, which could be painted a different color or something along those lines.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/10 19:52:08


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    @Alpharius - I'm no prude, but I was surprised at seeing the renders.

    @DS - It's OK. I expect military females to look very similar to male troops, with the biggest (actually quite small) difference being stature and facial structure. For male vs female helmets, I like horsehair mohawks vs ponytails.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/10 19:59:32


    Post by: Dark Severance


     Alpharius wrote:
    But maybe future female miniatures in the line will offer more variation there?
    It really depends on the faction. In the far future, greed and vanity is at its highest peak those that have money spend it, those that don't have money... can be identified by what little they have.

    Women (usually not soldiers) but the Corporate leaders are actually fit form perfect in the United Republic. Children dna traits can be chosen before birth to ensure the best mix and match. That doesn't mean it always holds true but (think Gattica). Humans are vain in that aspect and those types of treatments aren't limited to surgery at least in the United Republic. It is all about public image to them. Europa is less vain, so more natural and less importance on public appearance also different social structure. Federated Commonwealth are miners, second generation citizens so can't really afford those things. Anazi are a mix breed of mutants. The next miniature for Anazi will be JK9, Jackal Defenders... sort of like a Anubis, light armored dog soldier. You'll be able to identify a female, but they are much smaller in chest size.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    LOL! I just told my wife about this post, her response was that she should make an account and post about breast shaming her. She wasn't serious, just some facebook discussions we get involved with some friends on and off though about body shaming. Although her actual response was, "Those are small. I mean you look at GG everyday so the fact that they are downsized to DD is a lot."

    I will say this, the average size for breasts is actually 34DD, which was previously 34B about 20 years ago. I'm not saying that is what the average female is in my universe, but just a little tidbit.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/10 22:50:39


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    And as always, renders size will shrink in 3D printing and shrink more in casting.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/11 02:30:59


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Fair enough, all good.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/11 11:10:34


    Post by: michel3105


    Severance, I think that you can actually manage the scattering without a numbered dice.

    You've got different ways to do so with custom dices.

    What you want is, basically, a random vector.

    Custom symbols can create one, in the same way numbers (which are custom symbols themselves) can.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/11 11:21:13


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Since it is a D10 the top point of the dice can simply indicate the direction.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/11 16:45:56


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Or, "follow the 1", where you see where the 1 pip is pointing. If the 1 is up or down, it's a "HIT!".


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/12 17:54:52


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I apologize for the poor quality of the pictures. The other ones should be finished printing today, then hopefully get some better pictures done. There still needs to be a little bit of cleanup work done on them.





    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/12 18:22:28


    Post by: Alpharius


    Very nice looking prints there - this is getting real now, isn't it?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/12 18:54:12


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Those sculpts are very nice!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/12 20:02:27


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Nice work, though those ball socket joints will need some play testing.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/13 17:33:15


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Thank you. It is definitely getting closer, slowly but surely. This is just the first step to get a small production run done. Then we go back to the power armor 3d models, do some modifications to properly size and adjustments to the design. Then we'll probably do a small Kickstarter designed to flesh out the rest of the faction, the power armor and release the rules for free. Then expand and build up from there.

    The balljoints will need some testing with. That is the main reason we're doing a small run. To finalize and standardize the rest of the miniatures. To determine if we want to keep the design with torso/head as one or instead go torso/legs combined and arms and head separate. We also may switch to a square shaped peg/key instead of a balljoint.

    Here are a couple more prints and measurements. The size seems smaller to me, I'm asking for some more pictures and clarification. It should have been 32mm from the base of the foot to the eyes. I know that it isn't assembled, so there will be about a 1mm leeway. I also know she is slightly bent at the knee so not fully standing straight. But it looks to be about 28mm from base of the foot to the top of the head, which seems smaller since I would have thought it would have been around 30mm to top. Granted it could be the angle if the pieces are at a strange angle so that could explain it as well.






    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/13 17:55:53


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    I prefer legs & torso together when the model can be sculpted as such. The body simply looks better, and it's not like you really give up anything in weapons options. That said, separate head is nice, so the models can look a different direction.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/13 21:04:51


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    measuring the 3D sculpt is the most difficult thing and can lead to some trial and error, better print a model fully standing to the measure you want then create a box that size and compare all digital sculpts standing to that box to be sure of scale.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/17 14:14:49


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Delays, they almost never can be avoided.

    The miniatures were sized correctly with a separate box measuring the correct size placed next to the miniature. I double checked the files, made sure they were the correct ones that were sent but still somehow mixups happen. Sometimes it isn't even the 3d file, but a parameter that wasn't set properly on the printer and other times there are other issues found.



    Originally I thought the females were incorrect size and were a tad bit smaller. Now that I've seen the male, I think the female was most likely probably sized properly. There is a slight angle she is at so when placed on the paper like she was, it can account for the slight mm adjustment. The male however definitely does not look like it was sized properly. It looks about if we were doing 35mm which originally they were accidentally sized too. Adjustments were made and I was sure I sent the correct files. The artist is double checking them now. Unlike the female who can be explained based on her angles, this is fairly straight standup piece so eye level should been at least at 32mm, not as tall as this.





    There is a concern about the swords being too thin. That is definitely valid since no one likes swords snapping off. I'm trying to get a better idea of the thickness compared to some other models. Scale 75 is doing the initial printing and casting. I'm having them compare the thickness to their Fallen Frontiers line against Bianca Carlson, Sphynx, and Sihlas Fenn since I have those models to compare with. The swords blades are a bit thin, but not thinner than most swords, so as long as they match up with that then I believe they should be fine.

    Unfortunately that means a week of delay. A day to check the files, if they are fine, then have to check the printers. If they aren't fine, then at least a day to modify and update them. Then reprint them and cleanup. Overall they could be done in as quick as a couple days but usually something like this add's about a week. That delays the ability to start casting which causes a cascade effect down the line. On the plus side, a delay like this early on though can be adjusted for in the casting stage. Making up a 1-2 weeks during casting isn't too difficult if it was needed. Thankfully we aren't on a timeline to deliver a set date, although I'd like to have some cast before Origins Game Fair. This amount of time in my initial project was actually accounted for. You never like to use that cushion of time though, you always want to shoot for things to go flawless but you should always account for delays.

    Version control becomes important. When files are updated, they should have a version with them whether it is a date stamp or a A/B/C and so on so you can tell the files apart. You can't rely on the dates of the files. You can't rely on the naming of the file all the time. Especially when you are dealing with multiple artists sending files, when something is updated and it has the same name. These are processes that need to be developed and in place before going ahead full steam to prevent mix-ups.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/17 16:11:47


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    I always like to name things "whatever vxx - yyyymmddhhmm" so that the name carries the version and timestamp.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/17 20:04:33


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    The swords are thin indeed, you can see the various versions of Infinity figures, especially the era of the military orders compared tot eh new ones to appreciate the thickness change and the reasons for that.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/18 21:17:57


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    I always like to name things "whatever vxx - yyyymmddhhmm" so that the name carries the version and timestamp.
    That is a good suggestion. We tend to use yyyymmdd, only because there aren't changes in the finals to touchups within the same day. If it was inhouse I probably would use hhmm too.

     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    The swords are thin indeed, you can see the various versions of Infinity figures, especially the era of the military orders compared tot eh new ones to appreciate the thickness change and the reasons for that.
    There is definitely going to be an issue with the swords. They will unfortunately need to be redesigned and updated on the miniatures.



    The center arm-blades are from Fallen Frontiers miniature Sphynx from the Harvesters faction. They are 35mm miniatures however it is probably the thinnest a blade should be. The one I tested survived quite a few flick and drop tests. Comparing it to the ones in our designs, ours is definitely way to thin. The one that gets glued to the lower back/belt would probably be fine, since it has backing from the miniature. However if the swords are changing, then it should probably change to match them.

    Fallen Frontiers: Sphynx
    Spoiler:


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/25 21:20:40


    Post by: Dark Severance


    The first issue was that the swords and blades needed to be reworked. With how thin the blades ended up being we were worried they could snap off easily or break in shipping. That is something no one really wants to have happen. The overall design was going to stay the same and only the thickness was going to be increased.



    The image above shows the original design next to the proposed changes. As you can see we couldn't simply just increase the thickness and only that part. It can cause some pieces to be distorted so they needed to be touched up. The hilt and other parts would need to be adjusted accordingly. There doesn't appear to be that much difference in thickness when you look at it at this size because it is a blown up image. When they are printed and casted at their correct sizes you can actually notice the difference more.

    Below you can see images of the reworked designs with the new thickness included. They maintain the same feel and designs just are thicker.




    With the swords issue resolved we had to move on to the next issue which was to verify and double verify the sizes of the miniatures. Some of the measurements from the actual prints, although not completely accurate, seemed off. I would expect some variance because of how they were measured but not as much as I was seeing. Since we did change from a 35mm design, from the base of the foot to the eyes, to a 32mm design we wanted to make sure the wrong files weren't sent.



    Creating a block, the bottom was lined up with the base of the feet with the top lined up with the eyes. Then moving it to the side we can get the exact measurement for the block. This lets us see for this one, which was in question, it was 32.19879mm to the eye level. That size would be fine for them. I then verified the files, matching dates and sizes to make sure those were the same ones that was sent and they were using. Once we verified that then we were good to continue.



    New Finalized Sculpts

    Since no other sizing or changes were made, we only had to reprint a few pieces. We had to change the notch on the belt where the sword attaches so those legs will need to be reprinted. The swords and arms that are using those swords will also need be reprinted. Then after final approval we move into casting.

    Meanwhile we are starting work on a couple of the power suits for the other factions, since we already have completed 3d sculpts for them. There will need to be some modifications to fit them into our universe so we needed to work on the concept art. We are printing a sample on a lower resolution printer just to get the sizes of the current files and compare with ours. Then we can increase the sizes to what we think will work, then print those pieces. That will let us know where we'll need to change in sculpting. There are also some changes to shoulderpads, helmets and few other things to make them match up more with our universe. The idea is to do as little as we need to reduce sculpting costs or starting from scratch. However that does not mean we are opposed to starting from scratch. If we can't get them to work and they don't look right, I have no issues doing them over completely. Although we want to keep costs down, we don't want to cut corners or give something that is lower quality and doesn't fit our vision for that universe.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/25 21:54:37


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    I'm sorry, but the concave bit on the blade of the kukri isn't working for me. It's in the wrong part of the blade for what it "should" be. If it were just above the crossguard, that would be fine and sensible. But in the main slashing part? Not so much.

    Also, from a modeling standpoint, you are just asking for the tips to be broken off.


    Finally, these are primarily 3-part models of body & 2 arms, yes?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/25 22:27:16


    Post by: Dark Severance


     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    I'm sorry, but the concave bit on the blade of the kukri isn't working for me. It's in the wrong part of the blade for what it "should" be. If it were just above the crossguard, that would be fine and sensible. But in the main slashing part? Not so much.

    Also, from a modeling standpoint, you are just asking for the tips to be broken off.

    Finally, these are primarily 3-part models of body & 2 arms, yes?
    That is a valid concern about the tips being broken off. That was one of the reasons we increased the thickness. If there ends up being an issue we can make a modification fairly easy if needed.

    We are into theory-crafting territory since the fighting style doesn't exist, although it might. It utilizes forms from Pencak Silat and fencing. It isn't completely practical but it isn't meant to be, rule of cool and all. Their blade fighting style is more akin to dancing around their opponents, then slashing and striking.

    It isn't used in a normal slashing sword style but relies on speed and finesse. The ritual combat style during honor fights involves using the lower part to slash the opponent to score points. In non-ritual they would thrust, pull back to slice the blade tip while using the gouge to rip flesh. Other methods are to do a normal fencing thrust inward, then pull out causing more damage as the tip comes out (similar to removing an arrow by pulling it out). When faced against normal swords with a cross block, it is used to push or pull the sword away or downward, then they thrust forward, while dropping low and spinning around the body. The idea is the sword pulls/pushes the block, then quickly thrust and avoid the other sword by spinning around, while raking it across them.

    These unfortunately are not 3-part models since we already finished printing the bulk. They are 4 part models at this juncture with 1 torso/head, 1 leg, 2 arms. We will re-evaluate once we have these in hand and have worked with them. At this time we are leaning towards the new models being 3-4 parts: 1 body (legs and torso), 2 arms, 1 head.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/05/25 23:04:39


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    OK, got it. BTW, nice call to base on Pencak Silat as something different.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/02 19:30:24


    Post by: Unforgiven88


     Dark Severance wrote:
    , rule of cool and all.



    Truth! Thanks for this thread, been great following along!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/02 20:12:36


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    I am not sure if having a separate head will help enouph with the variety to offset the extra small part that it will be.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/02 20:24:06


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    GW does 28mm heads, and they'e OK - this should be similar. Separate heads are nice because the sculpting can be cleaner, and they can be posed to look about a bit. It avoids tricky undercuts at the neck, ears, & jaw.

    The game will benefit more from 1-piece torso+legs for fast building. And it will look better if the spine can form a proper shape to match how the torso can twist & bend properly on the hips.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/03 20:00:54


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    GW does heroic though and this does not seem to be in the abomination scale of GW.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/03 20:02:45


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Heroic-scale "28mm" GW heads should be essentially the same size as 32mm (eye) scale heads. The main difference will be in the longer, finer limbs.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/03 20:16:26


    Post by: Dark Severance


    There are pros and cons no matter which direction. The advantage of separate heads is the possibility of capability with other heads on the market and head swaps. We can give helmet or unhelmeted options, without having to print/create a whole separate torso for the new head.

    Some of the disadvantages are that the head sculpts are limited. With the scouts we did, because they have cloth and pieces that drape over the chest, it makes it harder to do as a separate head. You can sacrifice the options you have to the head, limited to helmets, no helmets but not something that might tie into the chest/back part without being creative.

    That is why we want these models to be in hand first. Then we can see what variations we can do with the method we have. How bad or good it will look. It also lets us evaluate a few other things that we want to take into consideration with the miniature as a whole. Then we'll look at what path we continue down. We might do both, have it depend on the miniature or just stick with one method but we want to at least consider all the options pros/cons.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/04 19:17:58


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    For me GW heads are closer to 1/32 heads than to true scale 32mm (to eyes) heads.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Dark Severance wrote:

    Some of the disadvantages are that the head sculpts are limited. With the scouts we did, because they have cloth and pieces that drape over the chest, it makes it harder to do as a separate head. You can sacrifice the options you have to the head, limited to helmets, no helmets but not something that might tie into the chest/back part without being creative.


    You might want to see Hassassin Govads on a solution for that problem.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/12 22:40:20


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    You might want to see Hassassin Govads on a solution for that problem.
    It isn't impossible to do, just takes consideration. When you are working with someone in-house or someone you've worked closely with as a sculptor it becomes easier. When you are limited on resources doing contracts then it is a bit harder.

    There are some things that I will want to change moving forward but it is good to finally have some of these in hand. For now this is all I have time to put together and show since I'm heading to Origins Game Fair in a couple days. Once I get back from that, then I'll have time to really go through them more thoroughly.










    From left to right: YuJing Celestial Guard (older version) - Infinity, Blinq Scout (female) - Anazi Dynasty, Blinq Scout (male) - Anazi Dynasty, Weyland Yutani Commando - AvP, Lady Faye - Zombicide: Black Plague


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 09:42:50


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Not bad, from what range is the 4th figure? the 5th is from cmon black plague?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 13:08:45


    Post by: Dark Severance


    4th is AvP Weyland Yutani Commandos and yes the 5th is from Black Plague.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 17:03:04


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    The painted model is Infinity?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 17:24:58


    Post by: Alpharius


    It is - looks like something from the NOMAD range!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 17:27:35


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Thank you!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 17:46:46


    Post by: Dark Severance


    It is from Infinity (updated post with label) but not a Nomad. It is an older model, I believe from the Yu-Jing Celestial Guard pack . It was the older sculpt so not the newest pack they have now.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 18:28:21


    Post by: Alpharius


    That explains why I couldn't find it!

    (Well, that and I don't collect Yu-Jing outside of JSA!)


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/06/13 22:17:57


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Really? wow AVP sculpts look chunky.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/07/25 02:41:26


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Things have been incredibly busy with con season going on. After Origins Game Fair we pretty much just kept running and busy so it has been quiet on our front. We have Gen Con coming up shortly, possibly have another project at PAX Prime and then Rose City Comic Con.

    I am happy with the results. There are some minor things that I don't like which I'll go into in another post after GenCon. We are early enough in the process that I think it is important to make the adjustments to create an overall excellent product. Don't get me wrong I am really happy with the initial set and design but need a couple tweaks. There are a just a couple gaps, which may not be noticeable after painting, some minor quirks and a couple fiddly bits I'd like to change. The quality, details and look match up with exactly what we are aiming for but if I can make corrections to improve something... then I feel it is important to do so instead of just saying "oh well".

    We are already working on some new artwork and the next set of designs are underway. Now that we've underlined and vetted the process for the miniatures designs we are confident to move forward at a faster rate with reasonable deadlines in place. We've been working hard on fine tuning the history and lore while grinding through various design tests to the rules. I would have liked to released an Alpha Version for them sooner but they just aren't there yet. We have favorable results from our testers but I'll want to release them to get a more wider look because we want to continue to make them better.

    Scout_Male 03 - Batch 01


    Scout_Female 01 - Batch 01


    Version A


    Version B


    Group Shots



    The arms for each of the miniatures can technically fit and be used along with any combination of legs/torso options. It provides a lot of versatility with the designs. For obvious reasons though some arm poses won't match with the torso/legs pose but there is still quite a bit of variety. We didn't get as much range or motion with the separated torso/legs as we would have liked. For the future we think just separate arms will give us the range we would want. As I was assembling though I realize personally I really don't like putting together arms/weapons when they are two hands holding a weapon. That goes for any kit though just a preference but sometimes something you can't avoid.

    Edit: Fixing odd double post...


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/07/25 08:42:50


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Not bad, yes some gaps are visible, but its an accepted flaw, better if it gets fixed indeed.

    What I do not like is the female rifle pistol grip, it seems oddly aligned especially in comparison with the male version.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/07/27 08:00:09


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Wow, that is really nice! Kudos!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/07/27 20:43:29


    Post by: Dark Severance


     PsychoticStorm wrote:
    Not bad, yes some gaps are visible, but its an accepted flaw, better if it gets fixed indeed.

    What I do not like is the female rifle pistol grip, it seems oddly aligned especially in comparison with the male version.
    I am probably a bit picky and I know I'm my harshest critic. The gaps aren't too bad, but it is just something I zero in on. When I compare them to others, after they have some paint they almost vanish.

    That is definitely a valid criticism. I'll take a few more pictures of different angles to see if that changes the opinion. It is something I'll take into consideration. The male was designed to be more in a ready to fire position, while the other was in a more relaxed state, not quite in a snapped into a fire stance.

     JohnHwangDD wrote:
    Wow, that is really nice! Kudos!
    Thank you. Hopefully we continue to improve, introduce and make nice miniatures to add to the groups.

    We're working on the Federated powersuits first as they will require the least touch up to the 3d models that we have. I also wanted an opposing miniatures for testing, playing, pictures, etc. Then we'll be going back to the Anazi faction and finishing up that faction before moving to the next faction and so forth.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/07/27 20:57:24


    Post by: Alpharius


    Looks really good so far!

    Maybe a pic of an assembled and primed miniature - to show what the gaps look like at that stage?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/09/01 15:18:34


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Just a short update on things.

    After GenCon there was a few days to catch up and put things in order at work before going to Disney World for the family vacation. We got back last night, but today we drive up to Seattle for PAX Prime, then following week is Rose City Comic Con which I am working both events. Things have been busy but wanted to do a short update.

    Primed miniatures, started applying base coats and they are coming along. Need to do a wash, some edge highlights and more blending and should be done but just haven't had the time. I did send a couple batches away to some people. Since I'm not a professional painter, I am working on getting a couple studio pieces done.

    Vacation hasn't been a full vacation either. While on the plane and at various points I've been in discussions with testers and which we've been going through each part of the game rules. I've written up some information and questions which I've made posts in a couple discussions that have been going on in the Game Design section. Not sure if that will change what we've initially done but it is always good to take a step back and look over everything.

    I hope to have a better update with pictures in 3-4 weeks once all the traveling and events have died down. It is good to have an active stable internet connection when doing so.

    Re-examining Dice

    Currently we are using three types of dice (regular d10, 2 sets of custom d10). Although I am used to WH40K and having 30+ dice i wanted to get thoughts on what we use.

    We use normal D10 for Unit Initiative. Players roll 1d10 per unit. A unit is either a single model or fireteam, so if the player had 2 models and 2 fireteams (consisting of 4 models each) they roll 4d10. Then they would assign the priority order to the units to show which ones could activate first.

    Then we have symbol dice, although we do include a translation to use regular D10, we felt using custom dice sped up and streamlined gameplay especially for newer players. There are two sets of dice, Attack Dice (red) and Defense Dice (blue). Most of the time because of the action/reaction system most rolls are contested rolls with both players facing off to determine success or failure.

    For example Player-A active player is shooting Player-B. Player-A would normally roll using red attack dice, the number rolled determined by their Range weapon skill. Player-B would roll depending on what their reaction was. If they choose to shoot, they roll attack dice, if they choose evade or withstand they use blue defense dice.

    Shoot actions are fairly straightforward. Active players gets full rate of fire dice pool, while Reactive player gets half. They are attempting to cancel hits with hits.

    Evade actions are similar, except the reactive player is rolling blue defense dice. Evades will cancel out the other player hits and if the reactive player survives, his unit can move up to 2” in any direction.

    An Endure reaction is similar to evade, except the reactive player is not only rolling blue defense dice but they also get extra dice as they hunker down defensively.

    Is that considered too many dice for a game? When compared to miniatures board games like SDE or Imperial Assault it doesn't seem like a lot but not a lot of miniatures games that I know are known for multiple types of dice other than XWing.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2016/09/01 15:55:53


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    It is awesome that you took a vacation - that's good!

    WRT custom dice, if that is your vision, then you should stick to it. That said, I do OK with plain d6s, 3 per player.

    SDE is overproduced, with far too many components, and far too many minor rules. And rather poor rules design (thought they finally have a pro working on rules). However, the 3 levels of dice, and the multiples of each are not the problem with it.

    When we talk about miniatures games, 40k 2E / WFB 5E had a handful of d6, a full suite of polyhedrals, custom Scatter dice, custom Artillery dice and custom Sustained Fire dice. AoS just uses the d6.

    IMO, the Star Wars dice are poorly designed, and should have been a single die with the opposite use on the blank faces. One custom die could do it all.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2017/02/20 22:52:22


    Post by: Dark Severance


    I will end up making an official post later this week, adding in more information as we get closer but wanted to at least post something here since that is what we've been working on, trying to get everything in place and setting up an official date for launch.



    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2017/02/21 01:24:38


    Post by: PsychoticStorm


    Nice, that jackal looks quite good.


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2017/02/21 02:06:59


    Post by: Alpharius


    Agreed!

    I'm a big Anubis fan, so, I'm in!


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2017/05/12 21:08:19


    Post by: Dark Severance


    Unfortunately been neglecting updates here. There have been quite a few things keeping me busy as I deal with a recouping from surgery dog. We've also been busy with the Kickstarter, which trying to keep communications between sculptors, production, artists is pretty much a full time job on top of the other full time job I do. There are a few discussion and articles on designs I've been working on, they need to be completed so I can update.

    We also have a new project, not for profit or business, but more for the hobby as a whole that we have been working on finalizing specifics. For my son's 16th birthday we got him a lower end 3D printer. It was meant to be a kit that he can work on, learn about them. Because of his autism we aren't quite sure what he will be doing in the future, so sort of a long term goal was to keep in interested in 3d sculpting, design or his music he likes to put together (mostly EDM). The printer was a means to help him. As a side part, we got the idea as I was printing some terrain that we can showcase various print levels of detail, how they paint up as well as doing reviews on lower end printers. Terrain pieces don't really need a SLA/DLP printer so this seemed like an interesting project so we'll see where it leads.

    In the meantime enjoy some WIP of some painted miniatures as well as concept art for the updating the design of one of the units in the game I'm working on.








    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2020/02/15 11:48:06


    Post by: BaronIveagh


    I hate to necro, but anyone know what happened with this, or did it just vanish?


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2020/02/15 15:14:11


    Post by: Nurglitch


    Given the last project update on the KS I'd say that the success of the project probably killed it:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/295466104/code-zero/posts/2512717


    [Blog] Small Game Company @ 2020/02/15 17:51:58


    Post by: BaronIveagh


    Ouch. Damn, I was just hoping some of those horned female heads were available separately or something. Was looking at doing some beastmen guard.