Hey, just got the new book today ( and yes it is pure filth/cheese/ elven sizzle). I will be doing a full depth description of the eldar units/formations in the book but for now Im sticking to a Q&A, so ask away...
I have a question about one of the psychic powers, I heard there's one that teleport a unit across the table and allows them to assault, could you tell me what the risks are?
The perils table (wild psyker perils of the warp) - for models with wild psyker SR
D6 1 - Devoured: The model GAINS the daemon of Slaanesh rule and counts destroyed (for VP purposes). The opposing player now has control of it, it is locked in combat if it was part of a unit.
2-3 - Soul wracked: Unit is pinned/goes to ground. The opposing player can pick another target for the power, with their own units either friendly or enemy.
4-5 - Warp Terrors: All units within 6' must take a moral check on 3d6.
6 - Eye of she who thirsts: Perils anytime you take a psychic test, rerolling 6s.
Wolf lord Bran Redmaw - 210 points (HQ)
WS 6 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 3 I 5 A4 LD 10 S2+
The Redmaw
WS 7 BS - S 6 T 6 W* I 6 A 5 LD 8 S 2+
Wargear
Bolt pistol
Belt of russ
Axe of Langnvast - +1 s ap 2 (Shred, melee, two-handed)
Frag/krak
Runic armour
Sp. Rules
ATSKNF A. senses
Counter A.
Independent C.
Saga of the Hunter (only as warlord)
Curse of Redmaw - start of each turn, on the roll of a 5+ (adding +1 for each SW unit locked in combat in line of sight of Bran) he uses The Redmaw profile, loosing his axe but gaining rend, Fleet, Eternal W., Feel no pain, fearless and Furious charge.
As I understand it yes, theres a separate section with the ability to get upgrades from the Eldar codex and a decurion style detachment with a special 1-3 warp hunter-combined-fire special rule (2 WH = 72' Large blast S- D, Ord, TL/ 3WH = 72' 7' blast S-D, Ord., TL).
So far the 2 things that stand out (to me) are the lynx (255 points, Heavy support- 3 TL S-D shots (24')/ S- D large blast (48') both with Ordnance) and the near army wide access to haywire grenades.
Hornets are the same,
Bel-Annath is now a Farseer/fire dragon - 150 points, 3W, ML3, with assured destroyed SR when he joins a unit of Fire dragons. He comes with special spear, a fusion pistol and 3 powers - Doom, Fire shield and molten beam
Ill be taking some pics of the book, hopefully Ill have them posted (somewhere) by tonight.
You can take another (possible stand alone) formation which is composed of either 1 Revenant/Phantom Titan and 0-2 Wraithknights with the special rule Close Support (ie instead of charging the titan the player must instead charge the wraithknights, if they're in range).
Revenant Titan - 900 points (LOW - Eldar faction)
WS 3 BS 4 S 10 F 12 S 12 R 10 I 4 A 2 HP 9
Super H. walker
Wargear - Cloud burst missile launcher
Special rules - R. Jump jets, Wraith Titan, Eldar Titan Holo-fields
Must select 2 of the following weapons - Pulsar, Sonic lance
Cloud burst ML - 48' S8 AP 3 Heavy 4, interceptor, sky fire, sunder
Pulsar - 60' D AP 2 Ordnance 2 , Large blast
Sonic lance - Hellstorm SX AP 2, Ordnance 1, Pinning, Soundquake (wounds on a 3+ with units taking a pinning check on an extra d6, Vehicles take S1 + 3d6 and non- super heavys are 'crew stunned' plus they lose an additional D3)
R. Jump jets - Moves either 36' in the movement phase (ignoring terrain etc) or an extra 2d6 in the assault phase when determining charge moves plus a d6+1 hammer of the wrath
Wraith titan
Can only be hit on a 6 in combat, unless the unit is a Gargantuan creature or Super heavy which is then changed to a 5+. It can fire 1 weapon and then run 12'.
Eldar Titan Holo-fields
Whenever the model is hit by an attack (so shooting and melee) the attacker must roll a d6, if the titan moved the attacking player must roll a 4+ for the hit to stand. If the Titan didnt move, it's a 3+
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yep Hornets still have 5pts pulse lasers and their formation is...
Hornet swarm
3-6 hornets (must take same upgrades)
Swift assault - On the turn they arrive, all the models may jink and fire their weapons at full BS.
Death Knell - Can bring hornets on from reserves, on a 2+ if the controlling player scored 1 primary or secondary objective in their previous turn.
So the new book has a means now of including FW elder units into a standard codex without using a CaD? Just checking to see what the future holds for everything else and to see if FW was keeping with the times.
Along with Col. Dash's question, how do things like the "Corsair Lynx" fit with a Codex: Craftworld army. Am I going to have to take an allied Corsair detachment, or will it fit in with the Craftworld armies as a regular option?
Cloudburst missile launcher - (NB not the 'Phantom' cloud burst missile launcher ) - See above
Phantom missile launcher - 48' S9 AP3 Heavy 4, Sunder
Spirit shock - When this weapon inflicts hull points, the target can only snap fire next shooting phase, and (if it has any) its attack characteristic is reduced to 1.
Spatial rift - Leave the template until the beginning of the controlling player's next turn. Any model under the template at the start of the movement or shooting phase takes a single SD ap2 hit.
Sunder - re-roll armour pens.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wraithseer is now 185 points (level 1 psyker) with the option of getting the standard weapon loadout plus a wraithcannon for 45 points or a D-cannon for 60.
May replace any star cannon for a pulse laser - 15 pts each
...oooh. Knuckle-duster pulse lasers! Nice!
Also, you can now take paired glaives if so inclined and go pretend to be Striker Eureka....
The D-Bombard is nice. If you lob it at a superheavy and it doesn't run the hell away, it's going to take 3 destroyer hits between now and next turn. Realistically, it's going to move - but even that still means it takes 2 hits.
I think the pulsar still beats it on lethality.
The points still mean you'll struggle to use it - even if you want to play a 'pure titan army' you still can't fit it in a 2,000 point game - but it is now a damn sight scarier. Interesting that it doesn't get the 'cant be locked in combat' of Horus Heresy Titans.
The firepower is insane now. A twin-pulsar phantom should on average blow a fully shielded Reaver Titan to shrapnel in a single shooting phase!
The wraithknight formation sounds very nasty. Is it normal wraithknights, or skathatchs?
Yes they did but it's now 60 points for a d-cannon. On the upside you don't need to include another HQ choice though.
Also, if you're running pure corsairs, i don't think it's cheese at all. The warp hunters are now D but it's minus 1 on the chart. Three shots though...
If people choose to abuse the number of hornets and warp hunters then you get cheese but a good spread of units will make a balanced list. The psychic powers are quite good - all bar one allows you to move units around, both your own and your opponents but the perils charr is very unforgiving to the point rolling more than two dice is a big risk imo.
Jimsolo, the Shadow Spectres could be great in your Freakshow list. Their Shadow of Death special rule says all enemy units within 12" roll an extra D6 take the highest two for leadership and morale tests.
Their weapon profiles are the same I think, 18" S4 AP4, Heavy 1 Blast 3" or 18" S6 AP3 Heavy 1 Lance. They have a Ghostlight rule that lets them combine to +1 S or -1AP for each hit.
What is really cool is Irillyth, the Shadow Spectre Phoenix Lord. His warlord trait is any enemy units within 12" must pass a leadership test when shooting. If they fail, its snapshots. He gets the same Shadow of Death special rule as well.
Running him in a "fear bomb" with a Shadowseer and a Archon with Armor of Misery could be very interesting...
Oh for cripes sake.. no, the rule under Irillyth states the EXACT same as under the spectres: "All enemy units within 12" of a Shadow Spectre squad that includes an Exarch with this special rule..."
Sorry, got excited and did not read the entire thing, looks like another goofy mistake in this book (and there are a few head scratchers).
Yes, Bel-Annath is still a thing, Farseer with a Fusion pistol and a fixed psychic powers: doom, fire shield, and molten beam.
Vashones wrote: What is really cool is Irillyth, the Shadow Spectre Phoenix Lord. His warlord trait is any enemy units within 12" must pass a leadership test when shooting. If they fail, its snapshots. He gets the same Shadow of Death special rule as well.
iddy00711 wrote: As I understand it yes, theres a separate section with the ability to get upgrades from the Eldar codex and a decurion style detachment with a special 1-3 warp hunter-combined-fire special rule (2 WH = 72' Large blast S- D, Ord, TL/ 3WH = 72' 7' blast S-D, Ord., TL).
So far the 2 things that stand out (to me) are the lynx (255 points, Heavy support- 3 TL S-D shots (24')/ S- D large blast (48') both with Ordnance) and the near army wide access to haywire grenades.
Hornets are the same,
Bel-Annath is now a Farseer/fire dragon - 150 points, 3W, ML3, with assured destroyed SR when he joins a unit of Fire dragons. He comes with special spear, a fusion pistol and 3 powers - Doom, Fire shield and molten beam
Thank you. I don't play with FW very much, but the way FW wrote this book, it appears to be an extremely good addition even for Craftworld Eldar players. I really did not think it was worth it for just a Corsair army, but rules for both Corsairs and Craftworld Eldar, I'll be ordering this.
I got my book last Friday, and spent the weekend toying with some army lists for a Corsair army. I really like this book, it seems pretty well balanced and Corsairs have so many cool ways to build an army. From a purely competitive choice I don't see many reasons to take them over regular Craftworld Eldar though. The "elite" Corsairs seem very expensive for how fragile they are. Sure you can have 3+ Jump infantry with Rage, power weapons, 2 base attacks etc., but they are still s/t3. Jetbikes are also 3 points more expensive, aren't they? (I don't play regular Eldar so I wouldn't know their price) I like the access to Blasters and Venoms as well as Scat.Bikes. Dedicated Falcons seem pretty neat too.
Have anyone found the ideal way to build a Corsair list? Treating different Coteries as Allies of Convenience can be a big blow if your Voidweaver attached to a shooty Coterie rolls up the Teleport+Assault power. I don't see anything preventing me from taking 2 Voidweavers in the Primary Coterie, being BB with the rest of my army. Am I missing something, or can I do this and put the Prince in a sub-Coterie?
I really, really like the powers, but feth me that perils table is brutal! I would absolutely love to open a webway above a 1500 point Thunderwolf cheesy death star and throw it all back into Ongoing Reserves, but being turned into a Herald of Slaanesh doesn't seem as fun.
Also, no Jetbike for the Voidweaver? Only jump pack? That's a blow. They can't ride in transports either, since the Venom and Falcon have 5/6 transport slots, respectively, and can only be bought at those unit numbers. So no 48" moving Jetbikes together with the psykers, I guess.
I'm thinking about giving all my Venoms/Falsons Deep Strike (Void Thrusters?) and squeeze as many as I can into a Sky Burner detachment, possibly with some jump pack guys or jetbikes to shield the mandatory HQ.
Best way to run your Prince? Reaper of the Outer Dark seems cool, allowing you to charge units other than the ones you shoot at. Combined with Psychic powers teleporting you across the board, this could be used for a lot of fun tricks. Traveller of Ancient Paths seems good too. As this is my first Xenos army, I don't know how useful Collector of Ancient Treasures is for getting access to other Eldar relics. IWND and Psyker stuff? meeehhh. Combat Drugs? Cool and thematic for a pseudo-DE army I guess. Maybe I am too used to playing Chaos, but the Corsairs seem too fragile, expensive and lacking in punch to work as a dedicated melee army.
The FW units available to both Craftworld Eldar and Corsairs are really cool though. I'll definitely bring both a Lynx and a Warp Hunter for some D. Hooray for the Lynx no longer being a super-heavy, but I am expecting a lot of whining over it (many tourmanents and such allow FW but not their super-heavies).
This is the list I came up with, but I will re-organize the Coteries. Maybe squeeze 2 Voidweavers into the Primary (unless I missed something forcing me to put my Prince there. Anyone?) and drop down to 2 Coteries. Just haven't sat down and re-formatted yet. Any comments? :
GrafWattenburg wrote: I got my book last Friday, and spent the weekend toying with some army lists for a Corsair army. I really like this book, it seems pretty well balanced and Corsairs have so many cool ways to build an army. From a purely competitive choice I don't see many reasons to take them over regular Craftworld Eldar though. The "elite" Corsairs seem very expensive for how fragile they are. Sure you can have 3+ Jump infantry with Rage, power weapons, 2 base attacks etc., but they are still s/t3. Jetbikes are also 3 points more expensive, aren't they? (I don't play regular Eldar so I wouldn't know their price) I like the access to Blasters and Venoms as well as Scat.Bikes. Dedicated Falcons seem pretty neat too.
Corsairs definitely seem weaker than Eldar (though many might argue that that's a good thing). However, as a DE player, I'm actually struggling to find reasons to take any DE units in my Corsair army. I'd originally planned to use them just as allies, but after seeing them they just seem so much better and so much more fun than DE.
Have anyone found the ideal way to build a Corsair list? Treating different Coteries as Allies of Convenience can be a big blow if your Voidweaver attached to a shooty Coterie rolls up the Teleport+Assault power. I don't see anything preventing me from taking 2 Voidweavers in the Primary Coterie, being BB with the rest of my army. Am I missing something, or can I do this and put the Prince in a sub-Coterie?
Do you mean Void Dreamers? If so, they're 0-1 choices so you can't have 2 of them in the same detachment. However, as far as I can see you can put the Corsair Prince in one of the Coteries. Not sure I'd want to though.
With regard to the ideal way to build a Corsair list, i really haven't a clue. But, for a bit of fun, I'm trying an army today with no vehicles - just Jetbikes and Jet Pack infantry. I'll let you know how it goes.
GrafWattenburg wrote: I really, really like the powers, but feth me that perils table is brutal!
Yeah, that was my thought too. And one of many reasons why Eldar are outright better. It seems especially harsh on Corsair Prince psykers - a 1/6 chance to hand your ~140pt warlord to your opponent seems rather harsh, to say the least.
I'm thinking about giving all my Venoms/Falsons Deep Strike (Void Thrusters?) and squeeze as many as I can into a Sky Burner detachment, possibly with some jump pack guys or jetbikes to shield the mandatory HQ.
In terms of deep-striking venoms, Reavers with Fusion Guns would probably go well with them. With just d6 scatter, you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to get into melta range. My main concern with using them was that the venoms feel too expensive for their poor firepower and fragility.
With regard to the HQ, I've been wondering which unit to put him with. Reavers? Voidstorm? Malevolents? Cloud Dancers? I'm trying him with Malevolents at the moment, but I'm concerned by their slow movement.
Best way to run your Prince? Reaper of the Outer Dark seems cool, allowing you to charge units other than the ones you shoot at. Combined with Psychic powers teleporting you across the board, this could be used for a lot of fun tricks. Traveller of Ancient Paths seems good too. As this is my first Xenos army, I don't know how useful Collector of Ancient Treasures is for getting access to other Eldar relics. IWND and Psyker stuff? meeehhh. Combat Drugs? Cool and thematic for a pseudo-DE army I guess. Maybe I am too used to playing Chaos, but the Corsairs seem too fragile, expensive and lacking in punch to work as a dedicated melee army.
It's probably not the best way of running him, but I'm planning to use Survivor of the Endless Darkness for thematic reasons:
Spoiler:
In terms of them being fragile, I certainly don't think so - especially with Jetbikes. But then, I'm used to playing Dark Eldar - where the best melee HQ is T3 with no save outside of combat, and Archons who would kill half their Kabal for a S5 AP3 Rending sword. I can honestly say that, outside of Formations (where I have no choice), I will never use any DEHQ character ever again.
What I do find disappointing though is that several options seem waaay to expensive. Why are Haywire grenades 15pts? Why is a single Blast Pistol or Fusion Pistol 20pts? I could maybe see myself buying a pair of them for that price, but a single pistol?
Also Power Weapons and Venom Blades both feel overcosted by 5pts (not too bad on the Prince, but a real pain on Barons and Felarchs).
This is the list I came up with, but I will re-organize the Coteries. Maybe squeeze 2 Voidweavers into the Primary (unless I missed something forcing me to put my Prince there. Anyone?) and drop down to 2 Coteries. Just haven't sat down and re-formatted yet. Any comments? :
The Prince goes with the malevolents, probably along with the Baron in that Coterie. The Void Dreamer goes with the Balestrikes in his Coterie, and the other Baron goes with the Blaster Reavers. Everything in the Sky Burners Coterie will deep strike (with the possible exception of the Splinter Cannon Balestrikes, who may or may not start on the field), the rest will start on the field. The psykers will probably all go Divination.
Obviously the main tactic is to shoot and then use Reckless Abandon and/or Assault Jump moves to get back behind cover.
Thanks Vipoid, no idea how i managed to miss the 0-1 restriction haha, good thing you stopped me before I built jet pack psykers
Actually makes it easier for me to build a list though as I don't have to think so much about forming Coteries in regards to psychic buffs and such. Back to the drawing board! All I know is that I want lots of Jetbikes. After a year of Renegades & Heretics I want some speed and non-blast shooting.
Your list looks very cool and thematic, have you had a chance to test it yet?
In terms of the relics, it's possible to take the Harlequin Mask of Secrets; it gives Fearless and a -2ld bubble at 12 inches.
For the psyker, you could use the teleport power to transport a Grotesque squad up the table.
And Lynx is not worth it. NOT being a superheavy is an extreme nerf! It's now suceptible to Vehicle Status affects (1-4 makes it snap fire, and 5 could possibly destroy the main gun) and it can be destroyed with one Penetrating hit! It's not worth it imo.
The game was War Convocation and Tau against my Corsair list (above) and a GK/BA list. Mission was Relic.
Despite what seemed like a decent start, we lost pretty badly. Reckless Abandon and Jetpack moves helped protect my stuff early on, but did little to help my partner - who lost a lot of stuff in the first couple of turns.
The Knight was probably the worst thing though. I'd have thought 5 Dark Lances (with rerolls to hit), 2 Fusion Guns in the side ark (in melta range) and another 2 in the rear arc (also in melta range) might have been enough. Nope. I think all that combined took off maybe 3 hull points. Sigh. That was kind of it, really. We got some kills, but they were already starting with ~500 extra points, and the Knight just murdered several units each turn (one with a barrage weapon, another with the main 12-shot S6 AP3 gun, another in combat and another by stomping a unit nowhere near the combat).
For the psyker, you could use the teleport power to transport a Grotesque squad up the table.
And Lynx is not worth it. NOT being a superheavy is an extreme nerf! It's now suceptible to Vehicle Status affects (1-4 makes it snap fire, and 5 could possibly destroy the main gun) and it can be destroyed with one Penetrating hit! It's not worth it imo.
The Warp Tunnel power only works on friendly units with the Eldar Corsairs faction, so no Grotesques, unfortunately.
While the Lynx is very fragile now, you can put it in a Sky Burners Coterie, allowing it to re-roll Reserves and only scatter 1d6 if you choose to Deep Strike it, making it pretty functional as a high-priority target hunter, like when you just really need that Knight gone.
For the psyker, you could use the teleport power to transport a Grotesque squad up the table.
And Lynx is not worth it. NOT being a superheavy is an extreme nerf! It's now suceptible to Vehicle Status affects (1-4 makes it snap fire, and 5 could possibly destroy the main gun) and it can be destroyed with one Penetrating hit! It's not worth it imo.
The Warp Tunnel power only works on friendly units with the Eldar Corsairs faction, so no Grotesques, unfortunately.
While the Lynx is very fragile now, you can put it in a Sky Burners Coterie, allowing it to re-roll Reserves and only scatter 1d6 if you choose to Deep Strike it, making it pretty functional as a high-priority target hunter, like when you just really need that Knight gone.
Damn that's a bummer. Oh well,you can still do it on a Skathatch right?
For the psyker, you could use the teleport power to transport a Grotesque squad up the table.
And Lynx is not worth it. NOT being a superheavy is an extreme nerf! It's now suceptible to Vehicle Status affects (1-4 makes it snap fire, and 5 could possibly destroy the main gun) and it can be destroyed with one Penetrating hit! It's not worth it imo.
The Warp Tunnel power only works on friendly units with the Eldar Corsairs faction, so no Grotesques, unfortunately.
While the Lynx is very fragile now, you can put it in a Sky Burners Coterie, allowing it to re-roll Reserves and only scatter 1d6 if you choose to Deep Strike it, making it pretty functional as a high-priority target hunter, like when you just really need that Knight gone.
Damn that's a bummer. Oh well,you can still do it on a Skathatch right?
Nope. Only Craftworld Eldar have access to the Skathatch WK, Corsair's only LoW is the Vampire Raider. Allowing a WK a turn 1 charge anywhere on the table would have been crazy though.
For the psyker, you could use the teleport power to transport a Grotesque squad up the table.
And Lynx is not worth it. NOT being a superheavy is an extreme nerf! It's now suceptible to Vehicle Status affects (1-4 makes it snap fire, and 5 could possibly destroy the main gun) and it can be destroyed with one Penetrating hit! It's not worth it imo.
The Warp Tunnel power only works on friendly units with the Eldar Corsairs faction, so no Grotesques, unfortunately.
While the Lynx is very fragile now, you can put it in a Sky Burners Coterie, allowing it to re-roll Reserves and only scatter 1d6 if you choose to Deep Strike it, making it pretty functional as a high-priority target hunter, like when you just really need that Knight gone.
Damn that's a bummer. Oh well,you can still do it on a Skathatch right?
Nope. Only Craftworld Eldar have access to the Skathatch WK, Corsair's only LoW is the Vampire Raider. Allowing a WK a turn 1 charge anywhere on the table would have been crazy though.
Well that's reassuring. I wouldn't want to fight against a Wraithknight that could charge turn one anyways...
Cieged wrote: I'm still blown away that the Corsair Prince has gone unnoticed.
Mastery level 2 Demon summoner with a Jetbike and a Shadowfield? Puts the old Baron to shame. My Seer Council is going to be brutal.
Would you want him to try and summon demons though?
I mean, you're getting Perils of the Warp on any double, which can:
- Give control of the Prince to your opponent for the rest of the game (which will also give him Slay the Warlord)
- Auto-pin your squad and either nullify whatever power he just cast or have it buff an enemy squad (if helpful) or hurt a friendly squad (if harmful).
- Make your Seer Council and any Corsair units within 6" pass a morale test on 3d6 (keeping the 2 highest), or flee
Regardless, if anything is making Seer Councils silly, it's not a single Jetbike model with a Shadowfield - it's Fortune.
It may also take - Corsair Kinetic shroud - 15 pts
(5+ Inv. after moving 6' or 4+ if going flat out. If the vehicle deep strikes it counts as moving flat out and can re-roll its invulnerable save)
Star engines - 15pts
While people might say its a pile of crap, it has one of the best stand alone D- weapons in the game- 48' S-D heavy 3, twin-linked. It can be taken as either an craftworld lynx (ie access to a holo-field, spirit stone etc) or as a corsair one.
Jimsolo wrote: Fortune plus Shadowfield is BRUTAL. Malefic Daemonology is a trap, though, since the Corsairs can't mitigate Perils.
Does anyone think it is worth having him roll on divination? Re-rolling to hit with prescience would be great for he and whatever squad he joins (thinking Quins with Caresses)!
Or is the Warp Charge of 2 for prescience not worth the chance of periling (consider that in the list you build he will have a reasonable amount of dice to throw at it).
@ Darkness No, but like I said it gets access to spirit stones and holo-fields. For 255 it's a bargain and if you want a wraithknight you dont have to waste points on a 2nd cad since it's a heavy support option.
Skathach Wraithknight - 315 pts
WS 4 BS 4 S10 T8 W6 I5 A4 LD10 SV3+
Jump G. creature
wargear -
Webwat shunt generator
2 deathshroud cannons ( Hellstorm S7 Ap4, Heavy 1, shred, monofili./ 48' S7 Ap4, Heavy 1, shred, 7' blast, monofili)
OR
2 inferno lances (36' S8 AP1 Heavy d3+2, melta)
May replace 1 of its main weapons for a - Scattershield
May be armed with 2 of the following - scatter laser - 15pts
S.cannon - 15pts
Star cannon - 20pts
May replace a wraithknight in the wraith constructs or wraith host formation.
Webway shunt generator -
Replaces movement phase, if it chooses to use the generator it cannot use the jump type special rules in the movement or assault phases, but it can still shoot, run or declare a charge.
It can either - be redeployed within 12' of its original position ( 1' away from an enemy model ). Then scatters 1d6, if it lands within 1' of an enemy model it takes a wound (with no save possible) and enters ongoing reserves.
iddy00711 wrote: @ Darkness No, but like I said it gets access to spirit stones and holo-fields. For 255 it's a bargain and if you want a wraithknight you dont have to waste points on a 2nd cad since it's a heavy support option.
So...instead of moving straight up 12" as a JGC, you can sacrifice your movement and assault phase to...move 12" and scatter possibly taking a wound.
What was a cool concept and idea is turned into a moronic idea. Returning a Wraithknight into ongoing reserve COULD in some cases be useful but the redeploy 12" when you can already move 12"? WTF?
Well if i am playing grav drop pods and they give me first turn I can always start him on the table and enter ongoing reserves guaranteeing my return turn 2 for the counter attack. As an alternate movement mode I don't think it makes much sense however.
I think that the skathach wriathknight is a bit of an oddity when you look at how he moves - same with the new wasps movement options - but he does have something that the eldar tend to lack which is ignores cover. Those two hellstorm templates look mighty tasty to me!
I'm just not sure that he's worth the points using that build but he looks so cool!
Wow, I had assumed that was a typo in the last editions. Did starcannons at least get cheaper, or are they still 5pts? (since pulse lasers are strictly better than starcannons)
As I understand it, the S. wraithknight can move out of combat with its stunt move. So you can charge in and then jump back out. Aside from that, theres no real advantage over a standard wraithknight.
Pulse laser should be at least 10 points per if not 15, its absolutely idiotic that they are 5 still. The fact that it is AV11 and closed with outflank AND acute senses is just a slap in the face. I say this as an eldar player btw. I am so sick of seeing dudes use these in EVERY list, I would have let them have a pass if they were corsair list only, but they aren't
After playing against the new Tau, the WK with Deathshroud Cannon appears to have a LOT of what I will need. The big decision will be to take the Scatterfield/Deathshroud or 2 x Deathshroud. Locally, we generally only allow one SH/GCLoW which makes the Scatterfield a valuable choice. But, even one Deathshroud looks fantastic.
vipoid wrote: If it's any consolation, I don't think hornets can take 2 Pulse Lasers, at least.
They always could, it would be a note worthy change if now they cannot. From what has been posted they seemed to have stayed the same.
Well, the exact wording is "Any model in the squadron may exchange either or both of its Shuriken Cannons for one of the following:" Emphasis mine.
Is that really any different than other stuff is worded? For example, war walkers:
Any model may exchange any shuriken cannon for one of the following:
It's just strange, I can't understand why it's still only 5 pts. As bad as GW is balancing their stuff, they're at least cognizant of the idea that more powerful weapons should cost more. And a Pulse Laser is... clearly more powerful than other weapon choices for the hornet (especially the starcannon, which is strictly inferior).
It's just strange, I can't understand why it's still only 5 pts. As bad as GW is balancing their stuff, they're at least cognizant of the idea that more powerful weapons should cost more. And a Pulse Laser is... clearly more powerful than other weapon choices for the hornet (especially the starcannon, which is strictly inferior).
It is strange. But then, is it any stranger than single models paying 15pts for haywire grenades, or 20pts for single pistols no one takes even at 15pts?
Cieged wrote: I'm still blown away that the Corsair Prince has gone unnoticed.
Mastery level 2 Demon summoner with a Jetbike and a Shadowfield? Puts the old Baron to shame. My Seer Council is going to be brutal.
Would you want him to try and summon demons though?
I mean, you're getting Perils of the Warp on any double, which can:
- Give control of the Prince to your opponent for the rest of the game (which will also give him Slay the Warlord)
- Auto-pin your squad and either nullify whatever power he just cast or have it buff an enemy squad (if helpful) or hurt a friendly squad (if harmful).
- Make your Seer Council and any Corsair units within 6" pass a morale test on 3d6 (keeping the 2 highest), or flee
Regardless, if anything is making Seer Councils silly, it's not a single Jetbike model with a Shadowfield - it's Fortune.
Is there anything forcing the Prince to be your Warlord over alternate HQs?
To my knowledge, Jetbikes can not be pinned.
How does a demon summoning cause buff or debuff to friendly or unfriendly squads?
Any Seer Council worth its' weight is Fearless.
On the Shadowfield point:
Jimsolo wrote: Fortune plus Shadowfield is BRUTAL. Malefic Daemonology is a trap, though, since the Corsairs can't mitigate Perils.
True, no mitigation means only one shot. However having the option is what's most appealing. I'll take him for the Fortunated Shadowfield, I'll pay the pittance Psyker tax to give me another tool for the belt.
Oh I'm not opposed to paying the minimal cost for another psychic die, for Freakshow casting if nothing else. I think I will stick with Divination, though.
How does a demon summoning cause buff or debuff to friendly or unfriendly squads?
I see what you're saying. As the power lacks a target, even if you perils, the opponent can't redirect it. The Daemon(s) will come in regardless of that result. Intriguing.
How does a demon summoning cause buff or debuff to friendly or unfriendly squads?
I see what you're saying. As the power lacks a target, even if you perils, the opponent can't redirect it. The Daemon(s) will come in regardless of that result. Intriguing.
Nope - if no alternate targets are available/possible, your opponent can choose to simply have the power fail.
Aerial Predators - When targeting a zooming flyer each nightwing may choose to add ignores cover SR to one weapon attack per turn.
Orbital Interceptors - If a Khaines Hawks Squadron is in reserves during a game turn in which an enemy flyer is brought in from reserves, the squadrons controlling player may re-roll all attempts to bring the squad into play in their next turn.
Fires of the Phoenix
2 Phoenix bombers
SR
Flaming Pyre
When multiple Phoenix bombers from the same squad make shooting attacks against the same non-flyer unit, the PB may re-roll all failed to hit and to wound rolls of a 1.
Fist of Vauls
2-3 Warp Hunters
SR
Warp breach - Unit forgoes all individual shooting attacks and must all be in line of sight...
2 WH - 72' S D AP2 Ordnance, large blast, Twin-linked
3 WH - 72' S D AP2 Ordnance, 7' blast, Twin-linked
Wasp Phalanx
SR
Cloud Breakers - On the turn the Wasp phalanx deploys via deep strike, it may re-roll failed power field saves and all of its shooting attacks gain the twin-linked and pinning SR.
I got to play a few games with the Fists of Vaul (using 2 Warp Hunters) and the Wraithknight with a Deathshroud Cannon/Scatterfield.
Fists of Vaul. Locally, anything with 'D' associated to it creates a primal dislike towards it. As such, I don't even like to start it on the table and have it come in from Reserve or Outflank (I use Eldrad as my Warlord). To do this, I also have an Autarch. It is a lot of points, but when I'm able to barrage and hit two units causing 12 and 16 hits respectively, it earns instant respect. Also, now it is clear that it counts as S10 for instant death purposes and being a barrage weapon, this is an added bonus. I've found I need to add Ghostwalk Matrix to these tanks as, once again, I immobilized a tank in terrain. Too many points to get handicappe.
The Skathach Wraithknight with Deathshroud Cannon does a LOT of work. Locally, we only allow 1 SH/GC in an army, so I end up taking a Scatterfield as standard. A single Deathshroud draws a LOT of attention as well and you can set up some crazy shots to hit multiple units. I added a single Scatterlaser as well so I can also assault something close. This is a great all purpose model.
There are a lot of great formation options and it is really making me want to take another look at a mechanized list. May not be the most competitive, but Eldar have some amazing vehicle options with the addition of this book.
With the Collector of Ancient Treasures trait, how many relics may the prince choose? And how does interact with the list limitations (i.e. "Shadowseer only").
Considering both the Armour of Misery and the Mask of Secrets on a jetbike prince - would it be doable?
From what I've been seeing, people are taking the 'ANY relic' to mean he can take them regardless of normal restrictions to Shadowseer/Farseer/ what have you. (Nearly a third of his choices would be unavailable otherwise.)
He can only take a single item, though. That seems pretty straightforward.
Would anyone mind sharing the details on the Cobra? I'm hoping to use mine for the first time since 5th edition next weekend, but my book won't arrive by then. I've seen mention it's still only a 7'' blast, but got it's Ignore Void Shields ability back. Did the range change again? Did it's points change from what it was?
When did the Cobra lose ignoring Void Shields? Because that was still in as of IAApoc 2nd ed. Which is pretty much the same as now, just swapping titan holofields for a 4++.
Edit: The Phantom DID lose that ability, and while he still doesnt have it he can get around it a little against certain types of void shields.
I misremembered, it lost it's d3 structure point ability and instead picked up a really crap "Distort Rift" rule. I was hoping that maybe it has something more like the D-bombard's Spatial Rift that people have mentioned--that's a pretty cool and useful rule.
How does a demon summoning cause buff or debuff to friendly or unfriendly squads?
I see what you're saying. As the power lacks a target, even if you perils, the opponent can't redirect it. The Daemon(s) will come in regardless of that result. Intriguing.
Nope - if no alternate targets are available/possible, your opponent can choose to simply have the power fail.
Missed that. My Demon Summoning dreams are washing away...
Perhaps someone can clear something up for me then; what is the value of the Skatatch Wraithknight movement? I keep rereading it and don't understand what the purpose is.
Multiple moves? Teleport out of Combat? Nothing but flavor?
So I have a question, what are the regular troops like (reavers?)? Are they basically 5 man venom teams that have access to two special weapons (fusion blasters) while the venom can take shuriken canons, if so I see no point in fielding my kabalites anymore lol. I sincerely hope they are a bit pricey?
Red Corsair wrote: So I have a question, what are the regular troops like (reavers?)? Are they basically 5 man venom teams that have access to two special weapons (fusion blasters) while the venom can take shuriken canons, if so I see no point in fielding my kabalites anymore lol. I sincerely hope they are a bit pricey?
Reavers have the same stats as Kabalites, except that they have -3Ld when regrouping, and their sergeants are WS5 (and cost just 5pts). They cost 2pts more, and lack Night Vision and PfP. Instead, they have:
- Reckless Abandon
- Shadowwave (defensive) grenades
- Plasma Grenades
The squad can mix their weapons freely between lasblasters, shuriken catapults (useless), splinter rifles or a Brace of Pistols and CCW (the former counts as 2 shuriken pistols and 2 splinter pistols).
2 models per 5 can replace their weapon with a blaster, fusion gun, flamer or shredder. They pay 10pts for blasters, rather than 15.
Each model can take a Jet Pack for the price of a melta bomb, which also grants them a 4+ save.
The squad can take Haywire Grenades for 5 melta bombs.
Five-man squads can take a venom, 6-man squads can take a Falcon.
Corsair Venoms are 5pts cheaper than DE ones and come with a Splinter Cannon and Lasblaster. Importantly, they lack Flickerfields and Deep Strike, but do have Scout.
- The Lasblaster can be exchanged for a splinter rifle or shuriken catapult (no cost), for a splinter cannon (costs 2 melta bombs) or for a shuriken cannon (costs 4 melta bombs)
- The shuriken cannon can be exchanged for a splinter cannon or scatter laser (no cost).
- It can get Deep Strike for the price of 1 melta bomb.
- For 3 melta bombs, it can get a 5++ against shooting that only works if it moved at least 6". If it moves flat-out or deep-strikes, the save becomes 4++. Also, the save is rerollable on the turn it deep strikes.
Red Corsair wrote: So I have a question, what are the regular troops like (reavers?)? Are they basically 5 man venom teams that have access to two special weapons (fusion blasters) while the venom can take shuriken canons, if so I see no point in fielding my kabalites anymore lol. I sincerely hope they are a bit pricey?
Reavers have the same stats as Kabalites, except that they have -3Ld when regrouping, and their sergeants are WS5 (and cost just 5pts). They cost 2pts more, and lack Night Vision and PfP. Instead, they have:
- Reckless Abandon
- Shadowwave (defensive) grenades
- Plasma Grenades
The squad can mix their weapons freely between lasblasters, shuriken catapults (useless), splinter rifles or a Brace of Pistols and CCW (the former counts as 2 shuriken pistols and 2 splinter pistols).
2 models per 5 can replace their weapon with a blaster, fusion gun, flamer or shredder. They pay 10pts for blasters, rather than 15.
Each model can take a Jet Pack for the price of a melta bomb, which also grants them a 4+ save.
The squad can take Haywire Grenades for 5 melta bombs.
Five-man squads can take a venom, 6-man squads can take a Falcon.
Corsair Venoms are 5pts cheaper than DE ones and come with a Splinter Cannon and Lasblaster. Importantly, they lack Flickerfields and Deep Strike, but do have Scout.
- The Lasblaster can be exchanged for a splinter rifle or shuriken catapult (no cost), for a splinter cannon (costs 2 melta bombs) or for a shuriken cannon (costs 4 melta bombs)
- The shuriken cannon can be exchanged for a splinter cannon or scatter laser (no cost).
- It can get Deep Strike for the price of 1 melta bomb.
- For 3 melta bombs, it can get a 5++ against shooting that only works if it moved at least 6". If it moves flat-out or deep-strikes, the save becomes 4++. Also, the save is rerollable on the turn it deep strikes.
Red Corsair wrote: So I have a question, what are the regular troops like (reavers?)? Are they basically 5 man venom teams that have access to two special weapons (fusion blasters) while the venom can take shuriken canons, if so I see no point in fielding my kabalites anymore lol. I sincerely hope they are a bit pricey?
Reavers have the same stats as Kabalites, except that they have -3Ld when regrouping, and their sergeants are WS5 (and cost just 5pts). They cost 2pts more, and lack Night Vision and PfP. Instead, they have:
- Reckless Abandon
- Shadowwave (defensive) grenades
- Plasma Grenades
The squad can mix their weapons freely between lasblasters, shuriken catapults (useless), splinter rifles or a Brace of Pistols and CCW (the former counts as 2 shuriken pistols and 2 splinter pistols).
2 models per 5 can replace their weapon with a blaster, fusion gun, flamer or shredder. They pay 10pts for blasters, rather than 15.
Each model can take a Jet Pack for the price of a melta bomb, which also grants them a 4+ save.
The squad can take Haywire Grenades for 5 melta bombs.
Five-man squads can take a venom, 6-man squads can take a Falcon.
Corsair Venoms are 5pts cheaper than DE ones and come with a Splinter Cannon and Lasblaster. Importantly, they lack Flickerfields and Deep Strike, but do have Scout.
- The Lasblaster can be exchanged for a splinter rifle or shuriken catapult (no cost), for a splinter cannon (costs 2 melta bombs) or for a shuriken cannon (costs 4 melta bombs)
- The shuriken cannon can be exchanged for a splinter cannon or scatter laser (no cost).
- It can get Deep Strike for the price of 1 melta bomb.
- For 3 melta bombs, it can get a 5++ against shooting that only works if it moved at least 6". If it moves flat-out or deep-strikes, the save becomes 4++. Also, the save is rerollable on the turn it deep strikes.
My DE warriors are dead to me.
Thanks so much mate, and yes, I MUST agree. Why the feth would I ever field warriors in venoms when I can take a venom that costs the same amount with 2 shuriken canons (way better) 2 fusion/blasters, grenades and the same guns + better options depending on load out (brace of pistols wtf!) for the same price overall just about. Absolutely bonkers mate. Half of me is excited to use them, the other half can't understand what goes through those folks brains when they create units. I guess it's time to covert some pirates.
Red Corsair wrote: Thanks so much mate, and yes, I MUST agree. Why the feth would I ever field warriors in venoms when I can take a venom that costs the same amount with 2 shuriken canons (way better) 2 fusion/blasters, grenades and the same guns + better options depending on load out (brace of pistols wtf!) for the same price overall just about. Absolutely bonkers mate. Half of me is excited to use them, the other half can't understand what goes through those folks brains when they create units. I guess it's time to covert some pirates.
You're welcome.
Just one thing though - a Corsair Venom with 2 Shuriken Cannons is 5pts more than the DE one with 2 splinter cannons, and lacks the 5++ and Deep Strike. However, even as I say this I realise that that's a small price to pay for 2 splinter cannons or a splinter cannon and scatter laser.
Yea, I am sick of spamming naked 5 man venoms that do nothing but steal objectives then detonate, so I think I will simply switch over to the apparently better [pirates, plus that way sliscus can still live on again finally
Red Corsair wrote: Yea, I am sick of spamming naked 5 man venoms that do nothing but steal objectives then detonate, so I think I will simply switch over to the apparently better [pirates, plus that way sliscus can still live on again finally
I've basically done the same.
Like you, I think, I want troop choices that are more than just taxes on my Venoms. Not only do Corsairs bring 2-per-5 special weapons, but they get blasters at a reasonable price. Also, with Fusion Guns and the Sky Burners Coterie (reroll reserve rolls and scatter 1d6 when deep striking) they can make for pretty good anti-tank. I also like that I can skip transports entirely, should I so wish, and just take Jetbikes and/or Jet Packs as troops.
Also, Balestrikes seem like they can easily replace Scourges. 150pts for 5 Dark Lances mounted on units Jet Packs, yes please. Likewise, compare 3 Reavers with Dark Lances to a Ravager:
- They can move 12" and still fire all their weapons
- They can move 2d6" after firing
- They can take additional Dark Lances that also come with extra wounds
- They can Flat Out twice as far as the Ravager
- They're troop choices with ObjSec
- All that, and they cost 5pts less
Finally, the thing that sold me entirely was the Corsair Prince. Because I finally have a character I'm not ashamed to be spending points on (not to mention having mobility options beyond 'take a transport'). I started working on this guy when I first hears the rumours about Corsairs:
Spoiler:
I think S4 suits a Mandrake character pretty well, as does a Voidblade and Survivor of the Endless Darkness. My only regret is that a Jetbike probably would have been better, but then I never really liked the look of Jetbikes.
I've also got this guy, who I converted a while back but could never really find a use for. Now he's my Void Dreamer:
Spoiler:
Corsairs just seem to have virtually everything I'd want out of Dark Eldar.
Sweet characters, I have no idea what is capable for them and I am sure based on the troops options that corsair characters should be much better. I heard something about being able to take gear from all three eldar books as well? Sounds like a pirate
Apparantly I need to purchase this forgeworld book.
Red Corsair wrote: I have no idea what is capable for them and I am sure based on the troops options that corsair characters should be much better. I heard something about being able to take gear from all three eldar books as well? Sounds like a pirate
Well, your Corsair Prince can pick a Path - which gives him some benefit(s), and usually unlocks something for your army. One path - Collector of Ancient Treasures - lets him take any one artefact from the DE, Eldar or Harlequin lists (at the listed cost). Also, any character in your army can make one of their weapons master crafted for 10pts.
Just finished checking out, my first forgeworld purchase ever. That books looks like too much fun not to have, doesn't hurt that I also play space wolves and guard
Got the book officially today and it is fantastic for Eldar players; a lot of great options and formations. A big error I did find is the Warp Hunter rules for Dispersed have two separate definitions. It also does not read like one is strictly for Corsairs and the other Craftworld. A bit odd.
This book really helps MSU style builds; typically a bit fragile, but can throw out a whole lot of shooting. Well worth the price for Eldar players.
I'm a little less sanguine about Freakshows incorporating corsairs. I am however intrigued by a new idea I had.
Basically, it's built around Reavers with Jump Packs and flamers. (Or rather, they're the gimmick of the list.) The army takes a Void Network Relay. The Reavers can hop in, uncork Torrent flamers on whoever is convenient, then retreat to the safety of terrain or the nearest VSG bubble with their two additional moves. (And since they're Jet Infantry they can shoot the Torrent flamers and still move.)
They do a nice job at anti-infantry. Some Dark Eldar or Eldar allies will let you put in some anti-vehicle firepower, preferably also hidden behind terrain or within the shelter of the VSGs.
Jimsolo wrote: I'm a little less sanguine about Freakshows incorporating corsairs. I am however intrigued by a new idea I had.
Basically, it's built around Reavers with Jump Packs and flamers. (Or rather, they're the gimmick of the list.) The army takes a Void Network Relay. The Reavers can hop in, uncork Torrent flamers on whoever is convenient, then retreat to the safety of terrain or the nearest VSG bubble with their two additional moves. (And since they're Jet Infantry they can shoot the Torrent flamers and still move.)
If it was me, I'd want to do this with some more impressive flamers. Basic S4 AP5 ones just seem a bit weedy to buy fortifications for.
They do a nice job at anti-infantry. Some Dark Eldar or Eldar allies will let you put in some anti-vehicle firepower, preferably also hidden behind terrain or within the shelter of the VSGs.
Honest question here - would you really choose Dark Eldar over Corsairs for anti-vehicle? I know I wouldn't.
I mean, they have stuff like: double Fusion Gun Reavers in Venoms (potentially rerolling reserve rolls and scattering just 1d6 from deep strike), double Blaster Reavers in scouting venoms (and their venoms can take Scatter Lasers and/or Shuriken Cannons), Dark Lance Cloud Dancers, Scatter Laser Cloud Dancers, Scatter Laser Wasp Walkers, Dark Lance Balestrikes, double Pulse Laser Hornets etc..
Obviously Eldar are a different matter, but it just seems like Corsair anti-vehicle is leagues ahead of anything Dark Eldar can bring.
I finally got my book. Lol the corsairs are what the dark eldar should have been (sigh). I've been playing around with a list, based around a lynx. Lots of small units that jump around shooting stuff. I really can't figure out what to give my Prince for his specialty. Right now currently at 1760/2000, I can't figure out what to fill it out with lol. I'm thinking of adding another hornet and changing the dissonance cannons to dark lances on the 2 small jetbike units. Any ideas thoughts?? I know it's fragile as hell, but it does pack a punch lol.
Grarg wrote: I finally got my book. Lol the corsairs are what the dark eldar should have been (sigh).
Agreed.
Grarg wrote: I really can't figure out what to give my Prince for his specialty.
Well, you could start by looking at the army-wide effects of each power, and see whether or not you'd use them. e.g. are there any squads you'd buy combat drugs for? Are there any characters you'd buy FNP or Master-crafted weapons for?
If not, then you can concentrate on just picking a good power for your prince. Personally, I'd suggest Reaper of the Outer Dark as a good default. Rampage with a Void Sabre is pretty nice, and the rage aspect lets you use Reckless Abandon aggressively, should you chose. Finally, the army-wide ability is free - so you can apply it to any number of units without worrying about points (and, with Reckless Abandon, you really shouldn't have to worry about the drawback).
Alternatively, you could ignore the rules altogether and just pick a Path based on fluff (that's why my prince above has Survivor of Endless Darkness - it seemed appropriate for a Mandrake ).
Grarg wrote: I'm thinking of adding another hornet and changing the dissonance cannons to dark lances on the 2 small jetbike units.
I'd definitely change those dissonance cannons to dark lances. Dissonance cannons are awful.
Also, is there a reason the 6-man jetbike squad only has 3 splinter cannons?
Grarg wrote: Any ideas thoughts?? I know it's fragile as hell, but it does pack a punch lol.
A couple of things:
- Do you think the Ghostwalkers with rifles are worth it?
- Have you considered venoms instead of jet packs on the Sky Burner guys? I ask because they can disembark 6" from the venom - meaning they should be able to correct for just about any scatter to get their fusion guns in melta range. Obviously you can ignore this if you don't own any venoms.
Either way though, I'd want Jetpacks and 2 meltas/blasters on the third Sky Burners squad.
As for venoms, yeah I don't have any, I had a pretty cool Duke list with my dark eldar, but as you know the duke was nuked. I sold most of my DE, I kept some painted up warriors and all my reaver jetbikes (I'm planning on using the reavers for the "mooks" while the barons and prince get the new bikes ). In the process of selling my DE I sold all my venoms (actually made a profit on them), stupid in hindsight but alas.
As for the path, yeah reaper sounds like the best, I might take a stab with combat drugs once I get built and playing. It might be better.
With the ghostwalker squad with rifles, they are cheap point wise and with rifles they'd be able to shoot something far far away as they'll be objective camping and because they are in the hatebringers, they could help with destroying the target.
I originally had melta/fusion in the 3rd sqaud of reavers but I dropped them cause I was considering using the body count there and having more dudes on the field. I'll work on that one.
With the changes to the dark lances on the 3 man squads, and addition of 3 more splinter cannons that'll give me 175 points left I think, 2 more hornets with scatter lasers and make the last squad either bigger with no jet packs or give them blaster/meltas.
Thanks for the suggestions man! Now time to starting building/selling and buying lol.
Mockingbird came and told me they now cheaper, and get 3+ armor save. Exarch gets Shadow of Death for free.
There is some changes to holofields as well.
I don't know if you guys have already seen, but the Revenant Titan got some random buffs:
- Now AV12 on the side instead of 11
- Now BS4 and WS3
- Now has 2 attacks instead of 1
- Missile launcher is now S8 AP3 4 shots, interceptor, skyfire
- Jump jets now give it +D6 charge and D6+1 hammer of wrath
- Now you can only hit it on 6+ in CC unless you're super-heavy, then you hit on a 5+
- It can run 12" and still fire a single weapon
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've also just seen that the Wraithseer is now an independent character monstrous creature!!! Does this mean he can join units? And units that aren't monstrous creatures?
Still fixed powers then? Maybe no use in the freakshow, but I think dropping a Wraithlord with a D-Cannon in the opponents backline would cause absolute carnage.
Does it have an invuln save or is it just regular 3+ armour? Any increase in stats on a regular Wraithlord?
NG77 wrote: Still fixed powers then? Maybe no use in the freakshow, but I think dropping a Wraithlord with a D-Cannon in the opponents backline would cause absolute carnage.
Does it have an invuln save or is it just regular 3+ armour? Any increase in stats on a regular Wraithlord?
For that same price you can just take a WK though and shoot 2 D shots starting turn 1. It would be cool to see him leading a unit of wraithlords all coverted up as his vanguard but I doubt it would be very powerful/cost effective.
The only thing I was tinkering around with was using the wraithseer joined to a large unit of clawed fiends. Slingshot him into combat early and hit hard with str10.
NG77 wrote: Still fixed powers then? Maybe no use in the freakshow, but I think dropping a Wraithlord with a D-Cannon in the opponents backline would cause absolute carnage.
Does it have an invuln save or is it just regular 3+ armour? Any increase in stats on a regular Wraithlord?
5++ invuln, S10 AP2 in CC master-crafted, re-roll armour pens.
Rypher wrote: The only thing I was tinkering around with was using the wraithseer joined to a large unit of clawed fiends. Slingshot him into combat early and hit hard with str10.
I have 12 converted clawed fiends for such hilarity, only lately there are SO many things that make a large brick of fiends worthless. I'd rather co double RSR detachment and take 12 individual fiends lol.
NG77 wrote: Still fixed powers then? Maybe no use in the freakshow, but I think dropping a Wraithlord with a D-Cannon in the opponents backline would cause absolute carnage.
Does it have an invuln save or is it just regular 3+ armour? Any increase in stats on a regular Wraithlord?
For that same price you can just take a WK though and shoot 2 D shots starting turn 1. It would be cool to see him leading a unit of wraithlords all coverted up as his vanguard but I doubt it would be very powerful/cost effective.
The Wraithseer could join a unit of Wraithguard or Wraithblades after a WWPIC has joind them. Sure, that's dropping to majority toughness 6, but makes a charge against this unit much less attractive. Could be nice with wraithscythes, who are pretty helpless in melee if something survives their Wall of Death.
My problem is more that you cannot field him as part of the Craftworld Warhost.
NG77 wrote: Still fixed powers then? Maybe no use in the freakshow, but I think dropping a Wraithlord with a D-Cannon in the opponents backline would cause absolute carnage.
Does it have an invuln save or is it just regular 3+ armour? Any increase in stats on a regular Wraithlord?
For that same price you can just take a WK though and shoot 2 D shots starting turn 1. It would be cool to see him leading a unit of wraithlords all coverted up as his vanguard but I doubt it would be very powerful/cost effective.
The Wraithseer could join a unit of Wraithguard or Wraithblades after a WWPIC has joind them. Sure, that's dropping to majority toughness 6, but makes a charge against this unit much less attractive. Could be nice with wraithscythes, who are pretty helpless in melee if something survives their Wall of Death.
My problem is more that you cannot field him as part of the Craftworld Warhost.
Yes you can thanks to the new detachment options which specify that they are additional choices for a Craftworld Warhost.
MC can join units if they are an IC (O'Vesa, etc) but IC can't join units that have a MC. But being a MC doesn't prevent you from joining a unit - it's just rare for a MC to have the IC rule.
I've gotten a few games in now with the book and the updated units, formations and Pale Court Core Choice are fantastic additions to an army.
I've run the Wraithseer as my Warlord (Pale Court Core choice) and he has been fairly good. The Warp Hunter Formation is really good, although I've only used the combined fire shot twice in 6 games.
I've been extremely happy with the new Wraithknight with Deathshroud Cannon. I was lacking a reliable way to go around cover saves and this works extremely well.
The Pale Court core choice is nice as due to the extreme flexibility it affords me when building a Craftworld Warhost (prior to this book, I used a Guardian Battlehost as my Core choice).
I've been reading the Corsair list and it is neat, but I don't see myself building a Corsair army anytime soon. The additions to a Craftworld army was well worth the money for this book.
Sarigar wrote: I've gotten a few games in now with the book and the updated units, formations and Pale Court Core Choice are fantastic additions to an army.
I've run the Wraithseer as my Warlord (Pale Court Core choice) and he has been fairly good. The Warp Hunter Formation is really good, although I've only used the combined fire shot twice in 6 games.
I've been extremely happy with the new Wraithknight with Deathshroud Cannon. I was lacking a reliable way to go around cover saves and this works extremely well.
The Pale Court core choice is nice as due to the extreme flexibility it affords me when building a Craftworld Warhost (prior to this book, I used a Guardian Battlehost as my Core choice).
I've been reading the Corsair list and it is neat, but I don't see myself building a Corsair army anytime soon. The additions to a Craftworld army was well worth the money for this book.
What do the pale courts get you? And does that forfeit the 6" run from the battlehost?
Pale Court is a new Core Choice for a Craftworld Warhost formation. Its special ability is to be able to choose up to two traits from its chart. The Craftworld Warhost Command Benefit is Matchless Agility, the auto 6" run move. By choosing a Pale Court as your Core Choice, you still maintain Matchless Agility.
A Pale Court consists of the following:
1 Farseer
3 Guardian Defender Units
0-1 Warlock Conclave
In my particular case for the Pale Court, I took two traits: the first allowed me to switch out my Pale Court Farseer and use a Wraithseer, which was my Warlord. The other trait I chose allows me to take 1-3 Vaul's Wrath Batteries, in which I take 3 Shadow Weavers.
Out of curiosity how easy is it to put together a viable list using only Games-Workshop models? proxies are great as long as it's close enough not to matter but I really want to pick these guys up without having to pick up any ForgeWorld as my Legion is already demanding sacrifices from my wallet. They seem like a fun list and I'd really like to put the hurt on the Tau who keep picking on my poor Orks.
tikhunt wrote: Out of curiosity how easy is it to put together a viable list using only Games-Workshop models? proxies are great as long as it's close enough not to matter but I really want to pick these guys up without having to pick up any ForgeWorld as my Legion is already demanding sacrifices from my wallet. They seem like a fun list and I'd really like to put the hurt on the Tau who keep picking on my poor Orks.
If you didn't field the infantry with Corsair jet packs, you could field the whole army (barring the FW vehicles).
Is it viable to run them without vehicles though, the Nightwing I will convert from a Razorwing and the Wasps will be Warwalkers but other than that would pure infantry/jetbikes be viable?
tikhunt wrote: Is it viable to run them without vehicles though, the Nightwing I will convert from a Razorwing and the Wasps will be Warwalkers but other than that would pure infantry/jetbikes be viable?
I'm actually planning to do something similar. I have some Venoms to use, and I can convert/proxy some Wasps and a Nightwing, but that's about it. Everything else will be Jet Infantry or Jetbikes.
tikhunt wrote: Is it viable to run them without vehicles though, the Nightwing I will convert from a Razorwing and the Wasps will be Warwalkers but other than that would pure infantry/jetbikes be viable?
Possible but not necessary if you're just trying to avoid FW purchases. Both the DT options are GW kits.
Yes, that's legal. The Autarch would also get to reroll misses in a challenge.
You can also include 0-3 guardian squads and 0-1 warlock conclaves.
You can't have any other Core choices (though you can have multiples of this one, should you wish), but you can have Command and Axillary choices as normal.
vipoid wrote: What are your guys thoughts regarding Corsair Venoms, Vypers and Wasps?
And, with regard to the Venoms and Vypers, is it worth paying for a second Heavy gun? (assuming they're worth taking at all)
The Venoms I find attractive due to their new Deep Strike option in tandem with the improved Invulnerable when they do. It's a tad pricier but from I've seen on Dark Eldar Bat Reps being on the table with Venoms can be a bad time.
What I do find a let down is that they're Dedicated only. I would have loved to use a Deep Striking Venom for some Fire Dragons.
Vypers didn't grasp my attention, Wasps seem to be quite a solid choice but I still hedge towards Hornets.
vipoid wrote: Here's a question for you guys, which do you think is best - an Autarch or a Corsair Prince?
I've only ever loved the Autarch for Reserve manipulation. The Prince has some neat supportive rules though that should make him more viable. I'd love to see someone make an army based on the Multiphase Key.
Sarigar wrote: I converted the Deathshroud Cannon using the Suncannon and an extra Nightspinner weapon.
II converted a Wraithlord into a Wraithseer using brass rod as the basis for the Ghost Spear.
I did buy FW Warp Hunters, however.
I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.
I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?
Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.
I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.
I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?
Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.
I used a Deathshroud/Scattershield in a game versus a Ravenwing. It threw a wrench in their 2+ re-roll jink. A Helstorm template covers alot of models. I was able to glance the Deathshroud to death while firing on the nearby bikes.
Since the Deathshroud is not torrent, positioning is very important.
The Venoms I find attractive due to their new Deep Strike option in tandem with the improved Invulnerable when they do. It's a tad pricier but from I've seen on Dark Eldar Bat Reps being on the table with Venoms can be a bad time.
Seems really pricey to me. I mean, once you add the invulnerable and the deep strike ability you're paying 5pts more than a DE venom with 2 splinter cannons, and yours doesn't even have a second gun yet.
Once you add a second gun, then you're paying 80-90 points for a paper-thin transport with a measly 2 HPs. And, if you don't add a second gun, is it even worth paying for the invulnerable save?
Vypers didn't grasp my attention, Wasps seem to be quite a solid choice but I still hedge towards Hornets.
Yeah, 2 Pulse Lasers apiece for 80pts does blow most competition out of the water. The only reason I'm not using them is that I don't own any appropriate models.
I've only ever loved the Autarch for Reserve manipulation. The Prince has some neat supportive rules though that should make him more viable. I'd love to see someone make an army based on the Multiphase Key.
Well, I'd say the Aurarch definitely has better wargear. The Prince has the Void Sabre and Shadowfield/Forcefied... that's about it, really. Collector of Ancient Treasures not withstanding, everything else is either horribly overcosted or just pathetic. In contrast, the Autarch has an outstanding array of wargear - such as fusion guns, reaper launchers, banshee mask, death spinners etc. Not to mention that, unlike the Prince, he starts with a Forcefield and haywire genades (adding those to the Prince adds 25pts to his cost). He also has vastly better mobility options, since they both have Jetbikes, but whereas the Prince is otherwise stuck with a Jet Pack, the Autarch can have a Warp Pack (i.e. a vastly better jet pack) or a Jump Pack that lets him move 18".
Almost ironic really - the Pince has better melee options, yet the Autarch has far more options for actually getting to melee.
I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.
I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?
Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.
I used a Deathshroud/Scattershield in a game versus a Ravenwing. It threw a wrench in their 2+ re-roll jink. A Helstorm template covers alot of models. I was able to glance the Deathshroud to death while firing on the nearby bikes.
Since the Deathshroud is not torrent, positioning is very important.
Interesting. Did the new movement style play any role in your positioning or did you just accept the bog standard 12" jump?
The Venoms I find attractive due to their new Deep Strike option in tandem with the improved Invulnerable when they do. It's a tad pricier but from I've seen on Dark Eldar Bat Reps being on the table with Venoms can be a bad time.
Seems really pricey to me. I mean, once you add the invulnerable and the deep strike ability you're paying 5pts more than a DE venom with 2 splinter cannons, and yours doesn't even have a second gun yet.
Once you add a second gun, then you're paying 80-90 points for a paper-thin transport with a measly 2 HPs. And, if you don't add a second gun, is it even worth paying for the invulnerable save?
Vypers didn't grasp my attention, Wasps seem to be quite a solid choice but I still hedge towards Hornets.
Yeah, 2 Pulse Lasers apiece for 80pts does blow most competition out of the water. The only reason I'm not using them is that I don't own any appropriate models.
I've only ever loved the Autarch for Reserve manipulation. The Prince has some neat supportive rules though that should make him more viable. I'd love to see someone make an army based on the Multiphase Key.
Well, I'd say the Aurarch definitely has better wargear. The Prince has the Void Sabre and Shadowfield/Forcefied... that's about it, really. Collector of Ancient Treasures not withstanding, everything else is either horribly overcosted or just pathetic. In contrast, the Autarch has an outstanding array of wargear - such as fusion guns, reaper launchers, banshee mask, death spinners etc. Not to mention that, unlike the Prince, he starts with a Forcefield and haywire genades (adding those to the Prince adds 25pts to his cost). He also has vastly better mobility options, since they both have Jetbikes, but whereas the Prince is otherwise stuck with a Jet Pack, the Autarch can have a Warp Pack (i.e. a vastly better jet pack) or a Jump Pack that lets him move 18".
Almost ironic really - the Pince has better melee options, yet the Autarch has far more options for actually getting to melee.
You're very correct on the unappealing price of the Corsair Venom - but I was presupposing there was some unit of value inside. The vehicle is limited to being a dedicated transport, so there could easily be a squad inside kitted to appropriate short-to-medium range weaponry that then wouldn't have to risk death by starting on the board (interceptor aside). The price is definitely a consideration, but I'm wondering if dropping the Corsair Devastator equivalents in a Deep Strike Venom would be a good time. A pseudo blaster-born drop.
I also agree that the Autarch is a superior point-per-buy. I'm still riding the presupposed train here however. My Craftworld list has always avoided melee like the plague unless my Wraithknight is ready to stomp or my Seer Council is fully buffed. The Autarch just has no support in this task - and I mean this on the competitive level where Banshees and Scorpions just don't make the cut.
I see more utility in the Prince. His Leadership/Routing buff, a few gimmicks that could be used with First Prince via Multiphase or stealing a Harlequin/Dark Eldar Relic. I agree it's nothing grounds breaking and presumably not competitive, but he fits the mark better than Autarch does for me in the melee-leadership category.
You're very correct on the unappealing price of the Corsair Venom - but I was presupposing there was some unit of value inside. The vehicle is limited to being a dedicated transport, so there could easily be a squad inside kitted to appropriate short-to-medium range weaponry that then wouldn't have to risk death by starting on the board (interceptor aside).
I suppose part of the issue for me is that I can't imagine myself actually staying inside the Venom with the unit once it lands. More likely, I'll be getting out to either get into melta range (correcting for any deep-strike scatter) or else to make use of reckless abandon and get out of sight.
Cieged wrote: . The price is definitely a consideration, but I'm wondering if dropping the Corsair Devastator equivalents in a Deep Strike Venom would be a good time. A pseudo blaster-born drop.
The trouble with that is Balestrikes are only relentless with jet packs. So, if you put them in a moving transport, you'll either be snapshotting heavy weapons or else menacing the enemy with 5 Lasblasters.
I also agree that the Autarch is a superior point-per-buy. I'm still riding the presupposed train here however. My Craftworld list has always avoided melee like the plague unless my Wraithknight is ready to stomp or my Seer Council is fully buffed. The Autarch just has no support in this task - and I mean this on the competitive level where Banshees and Scorpions just don't make the cut.
I see more utility in the Prince. His Leadership/Routing buff, a few gimmicks that could be used with First Prince via Multiphase or stealing a Harlequin/Dark Eldar Relic. I agree it's nothing grounds breaking and presumably not competitive, but he fits the mark better than Autarch does for me in the melee-leadership category.
That's fair enough. Out of interest, assuming you were playing pure Corsairs, what unit would you put the Prince with to go melee?
Also, apropos of nothing, but I really wish the Prince was I7.
I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.
I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?
Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.
I used a Deathshroud/Scattershield in a game versus a Ravenwing. It threw a wrench in their 2+ re-roll jink. A Helstorm template covers alot of models. I was able to glance the Deathshroud to death while firing on the nearby bikes.
Since the Deathshroud is not torrent, positioning is very important.
Interesting. Did the new movement style play any role in your positioning or did you just accept the bog standard 12" jump?
I did not use the new movement options. I think it is stupid to re-deploy 12" with a scatter versus just moving 12" where you want to go being a JGC. I did not need to go back in on-going reserve but it is an interesting option to have.
The shield coupled with fortune is what kept it alive against the plasma and grav. A little thing also I always put a lone shuriken cannon on a shoulder to fire at the closest unit. That way I can "flame" my main target and charge the secondary target because a tiny gun fired at it.
So "flame" the bikes, shoot the grav canons the drop podded behind me and charge them the same phase.
I'm still reading through it, but I'm really liking what I see. I don't do corsairs, but the amount of options that this brings to Craftworld Eldar is insane!
You know, because we needed more options
I'm still on the fence about the wraithknight variants though. The giant warp spider one definitely has the most appeal, as that much ignores cover makes the heldrake blush.
So I've been running corsairs for a while now. Let me touch on a few points.
1) SpiderKnight. I run mine with inferno lances and a scatter. He is significantly better than a normal wraithknight in my opinion, though most events here in the US have a nerfed D table. I tend to use him alongside warp hunters or wraithguard, so I don't mind the loss of the heavy cannons. In fact, the inferno does much more reliable damage versus a vehicle heavy meta, a la gladius. It helps tremendously against necrons and other tough units with increased range, shots, and low AP for killing power.
2) Warp hunters. Beyond amazing. If I can, I'll run a unit of 1 (maybe 2) in a corsair coterie for the better damage table. 2 units of 1 in a craftworld list works wonders though.
3) Corsair Prince. Hands down amazing. Having a jetbike, shadow field, venom blade, and either Mask of Secrets or going Reaper of the Outer Dark has made him a staple in many of my lists. Being able to combo him with shriek (Mask) or warp tunnel / shooting at a far away unit and charging something else (Reaper) catches many people off guard and really adds to any deathstar or decent combat unit.
4) Void dreamer. The meta changer. Mine I tend to run with Level 3, jetpack, and a shimmershield. I've had him peril only twice, but both times wound up rolling a 1 and becoming a daemon. Since he doesn't lose his wargear, giving him a shadowfield made him a pain to deal with when my opponent got to use him suddenly in one game. He also gets Rage from Reaper, so having not one but two units being able to charge things they didn't shoot at is wonderful.
I got to use 2 x 1 Warp Hunters, Wraithseer w/ D-Cannon, and a Deathshroud Cannon armed Wraithknight at a recent 2 day tourney. I went 4-1 and won my bracket in day two.
Warp Hunters are fantastic. I used the chart where it is a flat -1 to the dice roll (I'm waiting to see if FW clarifies this) just to ensure no rules issues during the event. I did pay for a Holofield and I'm not sure the extra points are worth it. I only lost both of them in one out of five games. Being able to fire these multiple times during a game was brutal.
Wraithknight. I lost him in only one game. The Hellstorm template is fantastic. But, by losing long range shooting, this is why I needed the Warp Hunters. I equipped mine with Deathshroud Cannon/Scatterfield/Scatterlaser. It definitely alleviated the issue with being able to ignore cover and clearing out light infantry, then use the scatter laser at a different target simply to be able to assault.
Wraithseer was, ok. I think it was a bit too many points for what I got in my build. I did not have other Wraith units, so his psychic abilities were pretty much wasted. I've since dropped him, but he was not horrible, just not great. He did, however, draw a lot of attention from my opponents when it came to shootoing. A mobile D-Cannon is not something to ignore. But, it is hard to justify 245 points for the D-Cannon shot.
I'm planning on including both a Lynx and a Warp Hunter in my Corsairs army, is this overkill/too many points invested in two relatively fragile units?
I'll run them together with some deep striking venoms with 2 Fusion guns in each, and a bunch of Scatter Bikes.
I'm considering to ally in the Scalpel Squadron from the DE to be able to Null Deploy, as there seems to be a lot of Alpha Strike lists around (Skyhammer etc.). Worth it?
GrafWattenburg wrote: I'm planning on including both a Lynx and a Warp Hunter in my Corsairs army, is this overkill/too many points invested in two relatively fragile units?
I'll run them together with some deep striking venoms with 2 Fusion guns in each, and a bunch of Scatter Bikes.
I'm considering to ally in the Scalpel Squadron from the DE to be able to Null Deploy, as there seems to be a lot of Alpha Strike lists around (Skyhammer etc.). Worth it?
Yes. Scalpel Squadron is an indispensable tool in any competitive Eldar list.
The best load out is 2 warp hunters and 1 lynx in each in their respective formations. It's not competitive for the price but it definitely helps Eldar fill in some weaknesses, such as deep striking Cents/ War con and AV13 spam. I would use them as purely expandable support roles but not the high priority ones so make sure youve got a wraithknight at hand and/or fair number of spider or scat bikes.
The best load out is 2 warp hunters and 1 lynx in each in their respective formations. It's not competitive for the price but it definitely helps Eldar fill in some weaknesses, such as deep striking Cents/ War con and AV13 spam. I would use them as purely expandable support roles but not the high priority ones so make sure youve got a wraithknight at hand and/or fair number of spider or scat bikes.
Also dont forget CTM on the hunters.
Formations are out of the option for me as I want to run Corsairs as my primary force, not Craftworld Eldar. I might ally in an Eldar CAD to get a WK though. I guess I could and should just run the planned Corsair list as Craftworlders, but I'm a hipster at heart so faction: Corsairs is what I'm in for
What guns do you guys recon are the best for your standard troops? Lasblasters or splinter rifles?
The best load out is 2 warp hunters and 1 lynx in each in their respective formations. It's not competitive for the price but it definitely helps Eldar fill in some weaknesses, such as deep striking Cents/ War con and AV13 spam. I would use them as purely expandable support roles but not the high priority ones so make sure youve got a wraithknight at hand and/or fair number of spider or scat bikes.
Also dont forget CTM on the hunters.
Formations are out of the option for me as I want to run Corsairs as my primary force, not Craftworld Eldar. I might ally in an Eldar CAD to get a WK though. I guess I could and should just run the planned Corsair list as Craftworlders, but I'm a hipster at heart so faction: Corsairs is what I'm in for
What guns do you guys recon are the best for your standard troops? Lasblasters or splinter rifles?
If you are running an Eldar CAD, you can still run various units in this book. The unit entries advise what battlefield role they play. Wraithseer is an HQ, Warp Hunter is a Heavy Support etc...
Hmm, not a bad idea actually. I picked up the Dark Elf Corsairs recently and modeled them with the sword and repeater crossbow pistol, so brace of pistols would fit the model.
Now should I give my 5-man units in Venoms free Rage? Every sensible part of me says "no! They're meant to deep strike in and kill vehicles with Fusion guns!", but having them forced to charge straight into a Knight afterwards is just too tempting..
The requirement to charge a unit within 8" doesn't override the normal restriction from charging after arriving from reserves, right?
GrafWattenburg wrote: The requirement to charge a unit within 8" doesn't override the normal restriction from charging after arriving from reserves, right?
Correct. Though, you can shoot one unit and then charge a different unit if you're not within 8" of the unit you shot.
Yeah. Reaper works well in a large unit that wants to shoot a high value target and charge something else. Quite a useful skill, something of a ghetto split fire.
Also detachments for corsairs have a pretty low buy in price and the mandatory units are good to great. Thus 0-1 per detachment is not a huge limitation IMO.
BTW I have experimenting with using Barons/princes with shadow field as my on table units when I run full reserves. Has anyone else tried this yet?
So far I have not been tabled. This is due to the shadow field staying on until the end of the phase and the small model size. I usually only have to survive one major attempt per baron/prince and then these guys jump around with jetpacks and score objectives the rest of the game (and occasionally kill weak units).
ansacs wrote: Also detachments for corsairs have a pretty low buy in price and the mandatory units are good to great. Thus 0-1 per detachment is not a huge limitation IMO.
I'm not sure I'd call Corsair Barons great.
Do you really find them useful? For me they're just taxes.
mercury14 wrote: For the people talking about taking multiple Corsair Warp Hunters and Lynxes, they're 0-1 per detachment remember.
But Warp Hunters can be taken in Squadrons so you can take up to 3 in your 0-1.
I didn't see that they were. Eldar CAD were brought up where they are simply a Heavy Support choice or even the formation which is 1-3. I run 2 separate in an Eldar CAD and they are fantastic.
ansacs wrote: Also detachments for corsairs have a pretty low buy in price and the mandatory units are good to great. Thus 0-1 per detachment is not a huge limitation IMO.
I'm not sure I'd call Corsair Barons great.
Do you really find them useful? For me they're just taxes.
I take them with a jet pack and shadow field. I find they are reasonably tough scoring units with good mobility that are very very easy to keep out of LoS. For the 60 pts price tag they are pretty good as far as tax units go. They don't deal a lot of damage but they can be good tarpits against some targets and they do enough damage to kill most remnant squads off of objectives so you can score it.
I take them with a jet pack and shadow field. I find they are reasonably tough scoring units with good mobility that are very very easy to keep out of LoS. For the 60 pts price tag they are pretty good as far as tax units go. They don't deal a lot of damage but they can be good tarpits against some targets and they do enough damage to kill most remnant squads off of objectives so you can score it.
For me that's waaaay too many points for a unit with such pitiful damage output. I certainly don't see many units (even severely depleted ones) that can be reliably finished off by 2 shuriken pistol shots.
Another question though - which units do you put them with? I ask because you give the impression that you're running them alone somehow.
Eldar CAD:
Farseer, Jetbike
3xScatBikes
3xScatBikes
1xWraithknight, Ghostglaive & Scattershield
1842points. I want the Sword on the WK because it looks more pirate-y, but I might switch it after he's proven useless in 5 or more games. Can anyone see anything illegal with this list that I and BattleScribe have missed? Is it worth running 2 Shuriken Cannons on one of the Venoms or should I drop that to give my WK a scatter laser? Is the Farseer a good HQ choice for the Eldar detachment when he can't join the Prince's Cloud Dancer band and let them keep Reckless Abandon? Thanks in advance for any feedback you have.
The only thing to be careful of is that the Corsair Prince doesn't get Rage. He still has to declare a charge if he's within 8" of a target, but he only gets Rampage, not Rage.
In terms of advice:
- I'd consider having 2 squads of 6 jetbikes in the Hate Bringers Coterie (rather than 1 unit of 5). Also, are you planning to use them in combat, or will the Prince just be chilling at the back? If you are planning to use them for combat, you could consider swapping out the scatter lasers for splinter cannons or even just running them naked (so you can focus on positioning rather than shooting). Again though, this is more if you take my advice and have 2 squads of 3.
- The Corsair Baron has way too much gear for my tastes. Considering that his unit wants to sit back and shoot, I really wouldn't bother with the Venom Blade. Likewise, the Shadowfield just seems like far too many points - especially to protect a small and relatively inexpensive unit. I'd rather just put those points towards another Cloud Dancer.
- Those venoms seem really expensive to me, but each to his own.
How does everyone feel about the coterie detachments over a regular CAD?
I've not had the chance to game yet with my corsairs since I'm slowly reconfiguring my units since the book dropped but I'm just not feeling it with the allies of convenience thing and all the additional barons you have to take if you want to run a full 1850 list of pure corsairs.
I don't mean to be super competitive but I feel that corsairs could be quite good running lots of msu because even the basic troops with jet packs can put out decent damage with 2 blasters per 5.
It feels like this army is designed to have lots of small, mobile units with decent ranged damage output shunting around the board - a pure glass cannon army with no frills. The coterie detachment just seems like a headache to me...
ColdSadHungry wrote: How does everyone feel about the coterie detachments over a regular CAD?
Honestly, I'm rather torn on this.
Ironically, the main problem I have with both of them is that I can't take enough troops. Can't recall ever having that problem before.
See, I have 9 Jetbikes that I want to use in squads of 3, but I also have 5 Venoms and I want to run each of them with a squad of 5 Reavers with 2 Fusion guns and 3 pistols. That's a total of 8 troops, assuming I don't want to run any extra squads (like Ghostwalkers or Jet Pack Reavers). If possible, I'd also like to run 3 squads of 5 balestrikes with dark lances.
Anyway, if I use a CAD then I obviously have to sacrifice some of the bikes or venom squads (or else take an additional CAD, including a second Corsair Prince). If I use a Coterie detachment, I need at least 3 Coteries - meaning a minimum of 3 extra (and entirely unwanted) HQs. At 1500pts, this usually means I can no longer afford the stuff I want anyway, putting me back to square 1.
Regardless, I imagine most people will have lists that are more balanced (e.g. making use of FA and Elite slots, rather than having 8 troops). In this case, my advice would probably be to see if your army fits in a single CAD. If it does, then you can probably save a hundred points or so by sipping the mandatory HQs. The main exception is if you either need one or more secondary HQs (e.g. if you want a Void Dreamer) or if you want to make a reserve-heavy army (in which case Sky Burners is indispensable).
I don't mean to be super competitive but I feel that corsairs could be quite good running lots of msu because even the basic troops with jet packs can put out decent damage with 2 blasters per 5.
Agreed about MSU, though honestly I'd much rather have Fusion Guns than Blasters. They don't synergise with their other weapons (either in range or target), they don't synergise with Reckless Abandon, and it just seems Balestrikes, Cloud Dancers and Hornets are all vastly better for putting out S8 shots.
Also, I've found Jet Packs lacklustre so far. When I use them on Reavers they struggle to get into range (even when I tried blasters), and are unreliable for deep-striking fusion guns (even in a Sky Burners coterie). A Jet Pack Prince in a unit of Jet Pack Malevolents is even worse, as he has a pathetic 6" to try and get into assault range.
Incidentally, if anyone has any tactics for a Prince in a Jet Pack Malevolent squad, I'm all ears.
vipoid wrote: The only thing to be careful of is that the Corsair Prince doesn't get Rage. He still has to declare a charge if he's within 8" of a target, but he only gets Rampage, not Rage.
It says that any unit can get Rage. The Prince is a unit, thus I read it as he can get Rage as well.
In terms of advice:
- I'd consider having 2 squads of 6 jetbikes in the Hate Bringers Coterie (rather than 1 unit of 5). Also, are you planning to use them in combat, or will the Prince just be chilling at the back? If you are planning to use them for combat, you could consider swapping out the scatter lasers for splinter cannons or even just running them naked (so you can focus on positioning rather than shooting). Again though, this is more if you take my advice and have 2 squads of 3.
I was thinking about using them in combat, using Reaper of the Outer Dark + Reckless Abandon to charge another, weaker unit. I suppose it is pretty fragile for its cost. Splinter cannons will be considered!
- The Corsair Baron has way too much gear for my tastes. Considering that his unit wants to sit back and shoot, I really wouldn't bother with the Venom Blade. Likewise, the Shadowfield just seems like far too many points - especially to protect a small and relatively inexpensive unit. I'd rather just put those points towards another Cloud Dancer.
- Those venoms seem really expensive to me, but each to his own.
I suppose I could run 2x3 Jetbikes if I drop the gear on the Baron. The venoms are pretty expensive for suicide units I guess, how much does a typical DE venom unit cost in a venom-spam list? I'm thinking deep strike within Fusion gun range, would dropping the void thrusters to save points and rely on Scout be a decent plan?
GrafWattenburg wrote: It says that any unit can get Rage. The Prince is a unit, thus I read it as he can get Rage as well.
Hah! So it does.
GrafWattenburg wrote: The venoms are pretty expensive for suicide units I guess, how much does a typical DE venom unit cost in a venom-spam list? I'm thinking deep strike within Fusion gun range, would dropping the void thrusters to save points and rely on Scout be a decent plan?
Actually, ignore me. For some reason I thought you'd bought a 15pt Kinetic Shroud for each venom.
In that case, you're probably alright cost-wise. However, I'd be very curious to hear whether or not you find the secondary guns on the venoms worthwhile.
Good find. I like the Skathach rules as they are fairly non-sensical as written. I've been playing the Warp Hunter they way they described, so no changes for me. Hopefully, FW will place an FAQ on their site for better distribution.
Perhaps a stupid question, but what, exactly, constitutes a "Corsair" unit? Say I attach an allied Farseer to a squad of Corsair Cloud Dancers, does it still count as a Corsair unit for purpopses of being targeted by psychic powers who state "Target a friendly Corsair unit"?
TompiQ wrote:With the Collector of Ancient Treasures trait, how many relics may the prince choose? And how does interact with the list limitations (i.e. "Shadowseer only").
Considering both the Armour of Misery and the Mask of Secrets on a jetbike prince - would it be doable?
Jimsolo wrote:From what I've been seeing, people are taking the 'ANY relic' to mean he can take them regardless of normal restrictions to Shadowseer/Farseer/ what have you. (Nearly a third of his choices would be unavailable otherwise.)
He can only take a single item, though. That seems pretty straightforward.
What is everyone's thoughts on a Corsair Prince using Collector of Ancient Treasures to grab a relic that another character already has. I.e. the Corsair grabs Mask of Secrets when you already have a Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets. As Jimsolo explains above, ANY relic can be meant to mean without normal restrictions.
Is there anything forcing the Prince to be your Warlord over alternate HQs?
Yes - "A Corsair Prince must always be the army's warlord."
(It's on the Corsair Prince page.)
What if the Prince is not part of your Primary Detachment? For example, if your Corsair Prince is part of an Allied Detachment, then it appears it could NOT be your warlord since the Allied Detachment explicitly explains that it cannot be the same faction as your Primary Detachment and cannot contain your army's Warlord.
TompiQ wrote:With the Collector of Ancient Treasures trait, how many relics may the prince choose? And how does interact with the list limitations (i.e. "Shadowseer only").
Considering both the Armour of Misery and the Mask of Secrets on a jetbike prince - would it be doable?
Jimsolo wrote:From what I've been seeing, people are taking the 'ANY relic' to mean he can take them regardless of normal restrictions to Shadowseer/Farseer/ what have you. (Nearly a third of his choices would be unavailable otherwise.)
He can only take a single item, though. That seems pretty straightforward.
What is everyone's thoughts on a Corsair Prince using Collector of Ancient Treasures to grab a relic that another character already has. I.e. the Corsair grabs Mask of Secrets when you already have a Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets. As Jimsolo explains above, ANY relic can be meant to mean without normal restrictions..
"Any relic" is not specific enough to counter any "1 per army" restrictions. It would have to specifically say that it allows duplicates.
Hello! I'm planning a campaign featuring my Corsairs and I want to get some input on making Wielder of Profane Powers work. It definitely looks like a fun Path for the Prince and should fit in nice with the narrative. I, however, do not have much experience with Daemons and would like to see this communities views on list building.
One other question: When a Daemon is summoned, how does it interact with the Corsairs? Considering the pirates cannot ally with them and the Daemons wouldn't be Battle Brothers, Allies of Convenience, etc.
I have just ordered this book for myself but could you give me some insite on the wraithseer? I love this model plus a shoulder mounted D cannon is always nice.
Xenomancers wrote: I have just ordered this book for myself but could you give me some insite on the wraithseer? I love this model plus a shoulder mounted D cannon is always nice.
Expensive. Great for a fluff or concept list but not considered competitive.
The ability to join a squad is great but nullifies it's T8. Joining a squad of Wraithguards or Wraithblades and giving them Feel no Pain is awesome however. D-Cannon is cool but a very expensive upgrade.
I've found the multiphase key generators to be broken.
With no restriction to when a unit can use them, you can conceivably throw them down near a board edge turn 1 with a character. Turn 2, any jetbikes in reserve come on the table, end their movement within 3" of the MKG, and then immediately return into ongoing reserves.
Similar to the piranhas, the jetbikes can't be targeted, even with interceptor fire, and will remain unkillable for the entire game, until turn 5/6, when they move 48" to obsec an objective or two.
I've found the multiphase key generators to be broken.
With no restriction to when a unit can use them, you can conceivably throw them down near a board edge turn 1 with a character. Turn 2, any jetbikes in reserve come on the table, end their movement within 3" of the MKG, and then immediately return into ongoing reserves.
Similar to the piranhas, the jetbikes can't be targeted, even with interceptor fire, and will remain unkillable for the entire game, until turn 5/6, when they move 48" to obsec an objective or two.
More of a gimmick than broken imho. It'd be like putting them in a Sky Burners Cotorie and choosing not to reroll your fail reserves, obviously with more control over when you need them to pounce. Also while they are doing their can't-kill-me trick, they aren't doing anything else. Though it sure is a good way to keep them alive until you need them. I'll try it out next game!
I've found the multiphase key generators to be broken.
With no restriction to when a unit can use them, you can conceivably throw them down near a board edge turn 1 with a character. Turn 2, any jetbikes in reserve come on the table, end their movement within 3" of the MKG, and then immediately return into ongoing reserves.
Is it possible to run a squad of Shadow Spectres as part of an Aspect Host formation? Really want to run them as part of a Craftworld Warhost without having to take 3 sqauds.
And whilst I'm at it, woudl Irilyth count as one of the heroes for a command choice?
As Aspect Warriors for Craftworld Eldar list I'd have hoped so but I suspect the answer may end up being no.
Nope they cannot be taken in the Aspect Host formation and Irilyth cannot be taken as part of a command for a Warhost.
Only way I can see to get them into the army, without having to take three units min (Pale Courts Battlehost, Aspect Lord-shrine or their auxiliary formation), would be a CAD and you could make Irilyth the HQ.
You could, if you had a different warlord (a prince for example), take an allied detachment of Irillyth, 3 jetbikes, and a squad of spectres for the cheapest possible configuration to use them.
I'm finding a larger fleet co with two coteries to be quite fun. Mostly with MKGs to manipulate reserves and where things show up throughout the game. I like the idea of pseudo-rangers with a baron attached to infiltrate up and drop a portal early game for other things to pop out of later.
I'm also becoming a fan of a unit of jetpack balestrikers. A unit of 5 including a felarch all armed with dark lances is quite formidable and does work throughout a game. It's pretty much what I wish scourge could do instead of being haywire bats.
Rypher wrote: You could, if you had a different warlord (a prince for example), take an allied detachment of Irillyth, 3 jetbikes, and a squad of spectres for the cheapest possible configuration to use them.
I'm finding a larger fleet co with two coteries to be quite fun. Mostly with MKGs to manipulate reserves and where things show up throughout the game. I like the idea of pseudo-rangers with a baron attached to infiltrate up and drop a portal early game for other things to pop out of later.
I'm also becoming a fan of a unit of jetpack balestrikers. A unit of 5 including a felarch all armed with dark lances is quite formidable and does work throughout a game. It's pretty much what I wish scourge could do instead of being haywire bats.
The BRB errata made it so non-infiltrating Independent Characters cannot join Infiltrators. Try out Balestrikes with shuriken cannons in a venom! I've had fun with Voidstorms deep striking, both venom and jetpacks, wielding 2 dissonance pistols each. Killed a wounded knight with four 6s out of ten shots. Lucky, but fun...adding a Baron for prescience and his own two shots has helped 6's pop up and a shimmershield has kept them relatively more protected.
I'm also becoming a fan of a unit of jetpack balestrikers. A unit of 5 including a felarch all armed with dark lances is quite formidable and does work throughout a game. It's pretty much what I wish scourge could do instead of being haywire bats.
I also like Dark Lance Balestrikes. I know a lot of people prefer Dark Lance Cloud Dancers, but I prefer them with Scatter Lasers (which are also cheaper and not available to Balestrikes).
Like you, I think Balestrikes are what scourges should have been.
Mj445 wrote: Try out Balestrikes with shuriken cannons in a venom!
Given that they're stuck snapshotting if the Venom moves (and/or if they disembark), I can't see the appeal over Jet Packs.
Mj445 wrote: I've had fun with Voidstorms deep striking, both venom and jetpacks
Eh?
So, were they in a venom or did they have jet packs? Or, are you talking about separate squads?
Mj445 wrote: wielding 2 dissonance pistols each. Killed a wounded knight with four 6s out of ten shots. Lucky, but fun...adding a Baron for prescience and his own two shots has helped 6's pop up and a shimmershield has kept them relatively more protected.
That's insanely expensive though, especially considering the short range and fragility.
Shuriken Cannons are assault 3, the only non-heavy Heavy weapon I know!
I've had fun deep striking the Voidstorms with dissonace, separate times, in either a venom or jetpack...expensive yes but I said fun not competitive.
Fun fact about the Voidstorms... They can take two dissonance/blast pistols or a power weapon/venom blade + CCW and they keep their lasblaster/rifle/catapult/brace of pistols. Plus you could exchange one in the groups main weapon for a flamer/fusion/blaster/shredder and still keep his 2 pistols or CCW.
wargear - Prism rile (dispersed - 18' s4 ap4 Heavy 1 blast/ focused - 18' s6 ap 3 Heavy 1, Lance, ghostlight) , Spect. holo field (5+ cover save when having moved/ 4+ if the unit made a thrust move), Shadow spec jet pack , Heavy aspect armour, Haywire and plasma grenades.
Special rules
Ancient doom
Battle focus
Fleet
Fear
Shadow of death (exarch) - All enemy units within 12' roll an extra d6 when taking morale and leadership checks.
Exarch is 10 points and can have a prism blaster (15) or a haywire launcher (10).
May include up to 7 more specs. for 25 points each.
Ghostlight
When a unit inflicts 2 or more hits with the ghostlight SR, you may choose to resolve them normally OR inflict a single ghostlight attack instead. The hit is based on the profile of the majority of weapons for each hit either add +1 st OR -1 ap (up to st 10 ap 1).
CKO wrote: Can we get a conversation going on about the psychic powers that are unique to corsairs?
Not much point, you can't use them reliably. You can only ever have one Void Dreamer in battle forged army. And you'd need some allies to help get enough warp charges to make use of your completely random powers.
I agree with DarknessEternal on the psychic powers.
Yea there is one that allows you to deep strike no scatter and assault afterwards.
But the chance of having your unit pinned and your opponent now gets to fizzle it or pick a new target ...or falling back...or turning into a daemon just messes up everything you are trying to accomplish with your powers. You can fit 6 mastery levels with two cotories and could pull some off, but relying on those powers is a lynchpin too easily pulled.
However this is a tactics discussion so onward! The only ones that I feel are bad are the poison 3+ large blast and the primaris, which would be good if it wasn't warp charge 2. The 4+ cover save one is okay, mitigated a bit with the Burners for vehicles and LoS blocking JSJ tactics. Lots of ignores cover out there. Warp Blink is probably my favorite...able to target friendly vehicles for some extra movement/better placement or shooing away/better placement on an enemy that is far too close to your squishy Void Dreamer. In my humble opinion using the friendly Ongoing Reserves power offensively is best on outflanking Hornets, but still you'd only get this off on them every other turn and trying to stagger two units a turn just ups the chance for perils...defensively can get you out of a jam, still two warp charges though. Warp Tunnel is the deep strike assault one, pop your Void Dreamer in a unit of grotesques, send your Prince off with the unit he is in, whatever. Not much talk needed on that one. Sending the enemy to Ongoing Reserves within 12" is 3 warp charges. Like most of the other Aethermancy powers can be a potent tool, high risk high reward. Just my two cents.
Not much point, you can't use them reliably. You can only ever have one Void Dreamer in battle forged army. And you'd need some allies to help get enough warp charges to make use of your completely random powers.
This.
In terms of the powers themselves:
Path-Ward - Situational at best, garbage at worst.
Warp Blink - Pathetic range.
Dispersion Field - Poor man's Forewarning.
Webway Rift - Might as well throw spoons at them...
Webway Breach - For when your units are contributing too much to the battle.
Warp Tunnel - Nice power, now if only we had a melee unit. Webway Maze - "Perils of the Warp? Never heard of it."
Looking at the powers, it's like we were given the ones for a different army. I mean, if we were DE - with loads of melee units, a lack of blasts and a lot of units that would like free 4+ cover, it would be great.
As it is though, we're a shooty army with virtually no melee units to speak of (certainly no good ones). So, why are we stuck with a load of melee-enabling powers? What we actually need are the eldar powers - stuff like Prescience and Doom.
What's worse though is the psyker itself. The Void Dreamer has vastly worse powers than an Eldar Farseer, doesn't come with a 4++ or the helm that protects against PotW, and can't take a Jetbike. Yet, not only is the price difference between the two negligible, the Void Dreamer also suffers much harsher Perils of the Warp. And, despite this, Aethermancy is filled with WC2 and WC3 powers - basically guaranteeing that you'll suffer perils if you want to do anything.
Rypher wrote: You could, if you had a different warlord (a prince for example), take an allied detachment of Irillyth, 3 jetbikes, and a squad of spectres for the cheapest possible configuration to use them.
I'm finding a larger fleet co with two coteries to be quite fun. Mostly with MKGs to manipulate reserves and where things show up throughout the game. I like the idea of pseudo-rangers with a baron attached to infiltrate up and drop a portal early game for other things to pop out of later.
I'm also becoming a fan of a unit of jetpack balestrikers. A unit of 5 including a felarch all armed with dark lances is quite formidable and does work throughout a game. It's pretty much what I wish scourge could do instead of being haywire bats.
The BRB errata made it so non-infiltrating Independent Characters cannot join Infiltrators. Try out Balestrikes with shuriken cannons in a venom! I've had fun with Voidstorms deep striking, both venom and jetpacks, wielding 2 dissonance pistols each. Killed a wounded knight with four 6s out of ten shots. Lucky, but fun...adding a Baron for prescience and his own two shots has helped 6's pop up and a shimmershield has kept them relatively more protected.
But the Barons aint Independent Characters, so they are still able to Infiltrate =)
I think it came up before in here but the forgeworld book does let you take formations for the eldar craftworlds army build. Most are difficult to feild by having a lot of models. Shadow spectures need three squads like the dire avenger shrine. They get a 3d6 taking the higher two assault jump. The exarch allows enemy units to have to re roll failed leadership tests and all shadow spectures re roll failed leadership
Facelessfools wrote: I think it came up before in here but the forgeworld book does let you take formations for the eldar craftworlds army build. Most are difficult to feild by having a lot of models. Shadow spectures need three squads like the dire avenger shrine. They get a 3d6 taking the higher two assault jump. The exarch allows enemy units to have to re roll failed leadership tests and all shadow spectures re roll failed leadership
Aye, the vehicle formations are especially powerful as you might be taking the min reqs anyways with Corsairs. Giving Nightwings ignores cover on one weapon each if they fire at a flyer, only restriction that they must take the same upgrades and gotta bring 2-3 units of nightwings...almost all of them are awesome...the only bad one is the Wasps as they have no way to deepstrike to benefit from the TL and pinning weapons rule.
Well worth it to trade in some pirate ships for their Craftworld cousins versions.
Not much point, you can't use them reliably. You can only ever have one Void Dreamer in battle forged army. And you'd need some allies to help get enough warp charges to make use of your completely random powers.
This.
In terms of the powers themselves:
Path-Ward - Situational at best, garbage at worst.
Warp Blink - Pathetic range.
Dispersion Field - Poor man's Forewarning.
Webway Rift - Might as well throw spoons at them...
Webway Breach - For when your units are contributing too much to the battle.
Warp Tunnel - Nice power, now if only we had a melee unit. Webway Maze - "Perils of the Warp? Never heard of it."
Looking at the powers, it's like we were given the ones for a different army. I mean, if we were DE - with loads of melee units, a lack of blasts and a lot of units that would like free 4+ cover, it would be great.
As it is though, we're a shooty army with virtually no melee units to speak of (certainly no good ones). So, why are we stuck with a load of melee-enabling powers? What we actually need are the eldar powers - stuff like Prescience and Doom.
What's worse though is the psyker itself. The Void Dreamer has vastly worse powers than an Eldar Farseer, doesn't come with a 4++ or the helm that protects against PotW, and can't take a Jetbike. Yet, not only is the price difference between the two negligible, the Void Dreamer also suffers much harsher Perils of the Warp. And, despite this, Aethermancy is filled with WC2 and WC3 powers - basically guaranteeing that you'll suffer perils if you want to do anything.
I agree, the powers tell me that the Void Dreamer should be allies with big nasty DE or Eldar Aspects to make any difference).
And am I the only one who has noticed that the Primaris power doesn't have a range? If it's limited to the Void Dreamer and his unit, then it's even worse. If it's an infinite range, then it's not too bad. To me this is a clear oversight (as well as not allowing the Void Dreamer to take a jetbike).
Negative. Attaching an IC to a whatever unit makes it 100% a whatever unit an 0% Corsair, so no longer able to use Aethermancy on himself.
Depends how the ability is worded. e.g. for Warp Tunnel: "Either the Void Dreamer and their unit, or another non-vehicle friendly unit with the Eldar Corsairs faction within 6"..."
Not that there is no requirement for the Void Dreamer's own unit to have the Eldar Corsair faction.
That said, this seems to be the only power with this wording.
Warp Blink and Warp Tunnel will work on non-corsair units. Warp blink is especially useful to move a wraithknight closer for easier charges.
Warp tunnel works well in a seer council or other deathstar.
So my experience with the FnP Prince has been okay (when I remember they have it)...the biggest downside is getting pinned when you miss the IWND, can't opt to not take it, and as a CC unit that can be a boon (and by that I mean, if I'm in combat it doesn't matter...) or a detriment. Really I'm using it to make the Felarchs venom blade bikers a bit more resilient and I'll probably switch back to Reaper Prince, as they've been hiding most games until they can get a good charge anyways. Hornets have been the stars of my games, wouldn't make a list without them and that is with scatter/pulse/shuriken it really hasn't mattered what I load them with. Oh man though, outflanking Wasps with 2x EMLs are soooooo versatile, if expensive.
One wish I have is that Corsairs special rules and such affected vehicles more. Pulling a vehicle through a portal or giving them tank/walker preferred enemy would have been awesome. I'll take a 6" scatter and 4++ reroll any day though, even if you can't shoot right away.
Spent some league points and was able to make the move through cover/stealth ruins my permanent WL trait, so I'll be deep striking everything and prolly use a Scalpel Squadron for null deployment shenanigans
Edit: The one game I've lost so far was against Ravenwing(?) bikers in the formation that gives 2+ jink re-rolls...reserves failed even with re-rolls and took me out piecemeal. Tell you what though...one Lynx with the Sonic Lance would ruin his day can't wait to get mine finished and on the table.
Mj445 wrote: So my experience with the FnP Prince has been okay (when I remember they have it)...the biggest downside is getting pinned when you miss the IWND, can't opt to not take it, and as a CC unit that can be a boon (and by that I mean, if I'm in combat it doesn't matter...) or a detriment.
Didn't you say your Prince was on a bike? If so, how is he getting pinned?
Also, in regards to your earlier question, I like the FNP ability for the flavour, but I wouldn't give it to anything but the Prince. 10pts is waaaaaay too much to protect already overpriced Felarchs.
facepalmed hard...thanks for reminding me about the bike rules!
I agree, 30 more points for Balelights or whatever. Plus the Prince getting up to 9 attacks has seemed to work better for him.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of the Prince. How are you all utilizing him? I've only put him on a bike with the Void Sabre, ML1, and a forceshield in a group of 3 Cloud Dancer Felarchs w/ venom blades. Including a bike Baron with the shadowfield, venom blade, and ML1 hoping for the re-roll save power. Can't see him doing much else, because joining a non-bike unit means they can't be in a dedicated transport and he has no long range weapons to speak of.
What are people's thoughts on the eldar superheavies? I know the titans get a lot of the focus but what about the Cobra and Scorpion? Also the Vampire?
Cobra seems pretty hamstrung by it's 36" range, scorpion's 60" range and 2 shots probably better at anything without void shields. At first glance the vampire seems really overpriced at over 700pts, I guess most people would opt for the pulsar but the thought of delivering a 30 man dire avenger shrine is pretty cool.
Also any thoughts on the Firestorm? Seems pretty sweet now although can it be taken in a non corsair list?
As itbstands, ther Firestorm is available only in a Corsair detachment.
I looked heavily into the Vampire combined with a Skyshield Landing pad with its upgrade. The Vampire can start on the table. With a 4+ one save, Superheavy rules and 12 HP , it is very unlikely to be destroyed on turn 1. Still a theory, however, since I have been unable to secure a Vampire with Pulsars.
Need them to clarify the Lynx range for salvo fire, says 48" in corsair list and reference section, but just 24" in craftworld profile. Has anyone heard anything about this?
DarknessEternal wrote: There are differences between Corsair versions of things and Craftworld versions of things. I don't see any reason to assume they are not intentional.
Would be a very odd difference, especially as the weapon has the same name and both are identically priced, also the reference section difference.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Gave them a call, apparently it's meant to be the longer range, the 24" is a typo.
If your group accepts that , then sure. My group nor any events I have attended accept an email. Generally it is accepted as an FAQ or something of the sort posted on their website.
Kind of annoying there seem to be quite a lot of pretty significant typos/errors in the book. Do forgeworld ever release FAQ's? Was planning on running a firestorm in my 1850 list which would be fine in my group, but I imagine would be an issue in even small tournaments. Seems a genuine alternative to a crimson hunter exarch in terms of anti air power, sure it's probably not as good, but bit more flexible perhaps and a way to get interceptor into an eldar army.
I want the Firestorm to work and it totally could...however being locked into only shooting flyers or skimmers effectively, really hurts it. 300pts for 2 Firestorms or I could get 6 EML shots from the Wasps for the same cost, two Nightwings are cheaper, both are more versatile and do not pay points for their invulns/cover saves. The Firestorms lack scout as well so catching those skimmers rear armor will be tough. Only thing it really has going for it is weight of dice and ignores cover, which would kick ass if it always had ignores cover and not just against flyers/skimmers, plus its only fast skimmers for that ignores cover. Not to mention they take up a heavy support slot which, unless you are going CAD, are limited. It is funny too that older fluff on the Firestorm said Eldar rarely use it and only ever do if they don't have flyers Take two Nightwings in the Khain's Hawks Squadron to give two bright lances/shuriken cannons ignores cover and firestorms are even further irrelevant.
The Super Heavies are good. The Lynx though is better! For around 100pts more than the Cobra and the Scorpion you could bring 3 Lynx each separate with their own weapon, grouped up with the same loadout, or with one in a Cotorie for its 48" range (even if the Craftworld ones are only 24" its still 3 TL true strength D shots each or that 5" blast.) and give the other two in a Skyhunters Squadron formation sonic lances! Keep in mind though that Lynx don't come with any inherent save which adds to their cost a bit. That can be negated by only taking one or two! Not only that but you wont be giving your opponent at an extra VP for killing your Super Heavy (both if you take the formation and in certain tournaments.).
The D-impaler on the Cobra is pretty sweet though. Ignoring void shields is cool, but only one shot!
Mj445 wrote: I want the Firestorm to work and it totally could...however being locked into only shooting flyers or skimmers effectively, really hurts it. 300pts for 2 Firestorms or I could get 6 EML shots from the Wasps for the same cost, two Nightwings are cheaper, both are more versatile and do not pay points for their invulns/cover saves. The Firestorms lack scout as well so catching those skimmers rear armor will be tough. Only thing it really has going for it is weight of dice and ignores cover, which would kick ass if it always had ignores cover and not just against flyers/skimmers, plus its only fast skimmers for that ignores cover. Not to mention they take up a heavy support slot which, unless you are going CAD, are limited. It is funny too that older fluff on the Firestorm said Eldar rarely use it and only ever do if they don't have flyers Take two Nightwings in the Khain's Hawks Squadron to give two bright lances/shuriken cannons ignores cover and firestorms are even further irrelevant.
The Super Heavies are good. The Lynx though is better! For around 100pts more than the Cobra and the Scorpion you could bring 3 Lynx each separate with their own weapon, grouped up with the same loadout, or with one in a Cotorie for its 48" range (even if the Craftworld ones are only 24" its still 3 TL true strength D shots each or that 5" blast.) and give the other two in a Skyhunters Squadron formation sonic lances! Keep in mind though that Lynx don't come with any inherent save which adds to their cost a bit. That can be negated by only taking one or two! Not only that but you wont be giving your opponent at an extra VP for killing your Super Heavy (both if you take the formation and in certain tournaments.).
The D-impaler on the Cobra is pretty sweet though. Ignoring void shields is cool, but only one shot!
Yeah the skyfire rule on the firestorm is a bit of killer, would probably be pretty good vs dark eldar though with all their skimmers. If it had a rule where it just shot full bs at both ground and air it would be pretty good.
I'm running a lynx at the moment, if you can keep it alive it's an awesome hunter of basically anything big you see in normal games, e.g. wraithknights, knight titans, riptides. 3 twinlinked full d shots are brutal, you've got a good shot of killing almost anything in one phase, unfortunately it's not so good at taking a hit back, and if you jink you're giving up a lot of firepower. Holofields are mandatory. I rang up forgeworld regarding the salvo range, they said they get asked this a lot and it's a typo, it should be 48" for both corsair and craftworld versions. For my group that's enough, unfortunately think tournaments will need at least an faq.
I agree with you regarding the lynx and cobra...but I now own a cobra so will be using it anyway! The 36" range I can see being a problem though in the apocalypse games I'll run it in, maybe crystal targeting matrix will be needed to make sure I get at least 1 shot off on the right target. But I think the main thing with D weapons is just more shots is always better. Scorpion looks pretty good, 60" range and 2 shots is fantastic. Or you could run that apocalypse formation of 5 fire prisms and a SD/10/... apocalyptic mega blast on someone for not many more points.
What do you guys think of the phoenix? The model for me is the prettiest eldar flyer. I face a lot of infantry based MEQ lists and was thinking of taking this instead of a crimson hunter exarch. I don't face much in the way other flyers, figure with vector dancer to minimise cover and strafing run you could quite easily take out 4 or 5 marines a turn which isn't bad. Whether this is really better than a crimson hunter exarch or even a wraithfighters D templates I'm not sure. 205 pts isn't cheap, but it doesn't seem terrible either. Comes with stealth too to make it a bit more survivable.
What are peoples' thoughts on the lynx vs. warp hunter?
Which would you rather take and why?
Which is better?
Which is more points efficient?
If I had to choose between the two for an all comers list, I'd go with Warp Hunters. Being able to get at least 2 little blasts from each and those doing a pen + d3 hull points from behind LoS is awesome. The ability to switch to the template if necessary is the other benefit, whereas the Lynx has to choose if it wants that ignores cover AP2 wounding on 3+ HELLSTORM or the 3 sD shots/single large blast.
On the Phoenix, if you don't need Nightwings for popping vehicles or flyers then they are a good choice for great anti-infantry with a good amount of dakka to take down enemy fliers or some light armor. Although three hornets or wasps are 5pts more and can lay out an obscene amount of anti-infantry shots and the Nightwings are cheaper, plus even more versatile in an anti-armor role, the phoenix combines them pretty well.
I have come across what looks like an error in the book and was wondering about the right interpretation. In the corsair warp hunter entry it says that the D-flail counts 5s as 6s on the D-table whereas on the eldar entry it says the D-flail rolls at -1 on the warp table (meaning a roll of 2 will not wound).
Which is the right one? Or are they meant to differ between corsair and eldar vehicles?
The rule has the same name - dispersed - in both vehicles so do I just choose?
Drinkgasoline wrote: I have come across what looks like an error in the book and was wondering about the right interpretation. In the corsair warp hunter entry it says that the D-flail counts 5s as 6s on the D-table whereas on the eldar entry it says the D-flail rolls at -1 on the warp table (meaning a roll of 2 will not wound).
Which is the right one? Or are they meant to differ between corsair and eldar vehicles?
The rule has the same name - dispersed - in both vehicles so do I just choose?
As it stands, the Craftworld D-flail is the same as their other distort weapons with the -1 on the chart and Corsairs is 6's are 5's.
Craftworlders can take as many warp hunters or lynx as they want, Corsairs are limited to 0-1 per detachment.
There are other differences too, like how Corsair Wasps can grab a splinter cannon, but Craftworlders can't. Or battle focus and reckless abandon. Or how Craftworld Night Spinners/Fire Prisms have that join fire thing, whereas Corsairs versions do not. Different rules for the same unit from a different army.
The confusion lies in that it's the exact same weapon - a D-flail - and the exact same rule - it's named DISPERSED in both instances - yet they have different rules with Craftworld hunters supposedly needing 3+ to damage as opposed to 2+ with Corsair hunters.
I would understand if the corsair hunter had a different name for the rule, but they are the exact same word. It just seems like a lazy, sloppy mistake.
It's like 2 weapons having the bladestorm special rule - but one of them causes AP2 wounds on 6s whereas the other causes rending hits on 6s.
Drinkgasoline wrote: The confusion lies in that it's the exact same weapon - a D-flail - and the exact same rule - it's named DISPERSED in both instances - yet they have different rules with Craftworld hunters supposedly needing 3+ to damage as opposed to 2+ with Corsair hunters.
I would understand if the corsair hunter had a different name for the rule, but they are the exact same word. It just seems like a lazy, sloppy mistake.
It's like 2 weapons having the bladestorm special rule - but one of them causes AP2 wounds on 6s whereas the other causes rending hits on 6s.
Yes, well, thems the breaks.
Has anyone used Malevolents with any degree of success? Would like a reason to dust off my Wyches.
Hey guys I'm a little confused with the way the force org is written in DoM2, can you ally in a Hornet Swarm to a CAD in the same way that you can ally an aspect host, i.e. without taking a guardian host/pale court host? I can't see any difference in the way that they are written. Surely it would be intended that they work in the same way? Tbh I don't really understand how you can take the crimson death or an aspect host etc without a core choice.
Cool so if I wanted to take say a Lynx, there's not really any reason to not take the skyhunter squadron? Coming from fantasy building armies in 40k is complicated.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Has anyone experimented yet with the quick to anger option for pale hosts with vypers? Normally an overlooked unit, but the option to give 3 separate vypers (as opposed to 1 unit of hornets) outflank and reroll reserves is an interesting option. Was thinking of runnning 3 cheap ones with just double shuricannons (if outflanking range is less of an issue, don't think 10pts is worth it for scatter lasers over them) as opposed to the ubiquitous crimson hunter exarch. Slightly different roll in the force but if you're not in a flyer heavy meta a cool option.
Ielthan wrote: Cool so if I wanted to take say a Lynx, there's not really any reason to not take the skyhunter squadron? Coming from fantasy building armies in 40k is complicated.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Has anyone experimented yet with the quick to anger option for pale hosts with vypers? Normally an overlooked unit, but the option to give 3 separate vypers (as opposed to 1 unit of hornets) outflank and reroll reserves is an interesting option. Was thinking of runnning 3 cheap ones with just double shuricannons (if outflanking range is less of an issue, don't think 10pts is worth it forscatter lasers over them) as opposed to the ubiquitous crimson hunter exarch. Slightly different roll in the force but if you're not in a flyer heavy meta a cool option.
Right, if you are playing regular Eldar the formations help free up slots and you can then take as many as you have or are willing to spend points on, no reason not to because the IA11 vehicle formations have no restrictions except a min unit size. Corsairs have a 1 per detachment limit (for lynx and warp hunters), so can use the Craftworld formations to help get more in (as Craftworlds versions). I haven;t used the Pale Courts (pure Corsairs player here) but I can tell you I am a huge fan of Vypers...they are honestly spammable Venoms and for the Corsairs they can take a Bright Lance or EML, which the dedicated transport Venom cannot. The only downside to the Craftworlders version is no scout, which helps the Corsairs version a lot.
BTW if anyone was looking to make their own Firestorms I've found really good longer Scatter Lasers from shapeways.com. They can get spendy, but the ones I have in hand will look awesome once I get them on a Wave Serpent body. And as far as my limited research has gone for finding this type of bit, they are the only reliable ones.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just played a handful of 2000pts games against Tau. The formations Craftworld IA11 brings are incredibly helpful and being able to bring 3 separate Warp Hunters helped with target saturation andthe Eldar Vehicle upgrades are made for the SD flamers (Crystal Targeting Matrix with star engines leaves a good chunk of board open to the flamer) and ignoring Crew Shaken on a 2+ with a 5++ that you can get re-rolled with a good psychic power off your Farseer HQ...Even with the 1s and 2s being nothing. The Hornet formation was confusing to me at first, OK they can jink and still fire full BS when they come in from reserves? Didn't realize it helps protect against Interceptor, which helped them immensely against Early Override Systems(?). I still brought a Prince and Hate Bringers cotorie with scatter bikes for the VP and wasp filling the elites. Tried the fliers in a number of combinations, was never satisfied with them, cut them completely.
If you start with your Wasps on the field and go second, they have no save, as Kinetic Shrouds only kick in when you move at least 6"...learned that one the hard way :(
Rypher wrote: Mj, just remember that the craftworld warp hunter formation requires them to become a unit. If only it was individual ones, it would be amazing.
Aye, took a Craftworlders CAD with Farseer and 2 scatterbike units, then filled up the heavy support slots.
Rypher wrote: Mj, just remember that the craftworld warp hunter formation requires them to become a unit. If only it was individual ones, it would be amazing.
Aye, took a Craftworlders CAD with Farseer and 2 scatterbike units, then filled up the heavy support slots.
I found taking Warp Hunters within an Eldar CAD worked much better (I run 2). The combined fire shot with 2 Warp Hunters did not impress me and firing two Warp Hunters into a single target felt like overkill in many situations. Having the flexibility to run them independently is something I found much more beneficial in most of my games.
has anyone tried and have experience with the vaultbreachers coterie?
It will probobly only have any effect when you play against high mec. lists but still, all troops will be a threat in cc.
As above, Void Dreamers are 0-1 choices, so you can't have 3 in your list.
It's possible to get 2, as there is an extra HQ slow in the command, and the mandatory 1 in the primary. Obviously you have to take a prince in the mandatory slow in the command, but the 0-1 restriction is the number of that unit per slot. Nothing stopping you taking more than 1 per detachment.
As above, Void Dreamers are 0-1 choices, so you can't have 3 in your list.
It's possible to get 2, as there is an extra HQ slow in the command, and the mandatory 1 in the primary. Obviously you have to take a prince in the mandatory slow in the command, but the 0-1 restriction is the number of that unit per slot. Nothing stopping you taking more than 1 per detachment.
No, the 0-1 means you can have 0-1 Void Dreamers per army.
As above, Void Dreamers are 0-1 choices, so you can't have 3 in your list.
It's possible to get 2, as there is an extra HQ slow in the command, and the mandatory 1 in the primary. Obviously you have to take a prince in the mandatory slow in the command, but the 0-1 restriction is the number of that unit per slot. Nothing stopping you taking more than 1 per detachment.
No, the 0-1 means you can have 0-1 Void Dreamers per army.
That's interesting - do you have a rules reference or a page number to support that?
The reason I ask is it is extremely common to see tournament lists taking more than 1 Lord of War choice per army. Taking 2 wraithknights across 2 CADs, for example even though Lords of War are a 0-1 choice, is fairly common and I've not seen it disputed much.
I can't speak for Wraithknights, as I do neither attend tournaments nor own an Eldar rulebook.
In terms of the Corsair stuff, I don't have a rulebook reference but I do have some logic: With regard to the 0-1, if it referred to how many you could take per slot, why would there be a '0' at all? If you could really chose to take 0 per slot, then you would be paying for a nonexistant Void Dreamer.
Now, maybe you're thinking that the '0' simply means that you can choose not to take that unit at all. That brings us to the Corsair Prince - who doesn't have the option to bring '0'. Hence, you'd have to take one in every HQ slot, which would contradict his own rule preventing this.
But, if you look at that number as being an army limit, then it makes perfect sense - as every Corsair army must include exactly 1 prince (hence, there is no option to take 0 in your army.
Moreover, we already have a section telling you how many models you get per FoC slot - "Unit Composition".
Indeed, if you look at the Corsair Warp Hunter Squadron, you'll notice that the 0-1 contradicts the unit composition (which allows up to 3 models). But, if the 0-1 simply means that you can only include up to one squadron in your army, this makes perfect sense.
EDIT: The 0-1 may refer to the number allowed per-detachment (as opposed to per-army). So, if your army has 3 detachments you could probably include a Void Dreamer in each.
I'm pretty sure the restrictions on the Prince and Void Dreamer are per detachment, not army (neither are listed as being Unique). This is backed up by the written requirements for fielding the Prince just above hsi statline, it clearly spells out that you must have 1 Prince, he must be the Warlord and if you have mutliple detachments of Corsairs then one of the Princes is nominated as the Warlord and all detachments treat each other as Desperate Allies.
Given that this makes it clear that the 1 Prince thing is per detachment, it's logical to assume that the 0-1 Void Dreamer is the same.
And just incase people have forgotten, Cotorries aren't detachments, the Corsair Fleet Raiders FOC is the full detachment.
