Could a space marine or equivalent survive re-entry from orbit to a planet surface intact without a drop pod or jump pack?

Could something with a force-field do the same?



Long story short I have an idea for a story were a necron lychguard crash lands on an alien world and I would like to think it would survive it realistically.

Probably not. Coming in from orbit to the planet usually means impact at terminal velocity. Not even a Marine could survive that. There would have to be something that slows his fall or otherwise cushions the impact, and it would have to be a VERY good cushion

I'm pretty sure it happened once in a story, but the Marines in question landed in water and needed Apothecary mending after it.

No, Vulkan did this in a recent HH novel and died but regenerated due to being a perpetual. If a primarch couldn't do it a normal marine certain can not.

Come to think of it, with all that armor, can Space Marines actually swim? With their pauldrons, I can't imagine they can do anything close to freestyle. They'd have to do something like the breaststroke, but their armor would make it incredibly difficult. Then again, they can breathe underwater IIRC, so that may not be a problem- unless of course they go too deep and get crushed by the pressure.

5th edition wolves codex had them fighting an under water battles. Not sure if that required modifications but considering spacemarines can breath poison, you would only need a proposions system.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
No, Vulkan did this in a recent HH novel and died but regenerated due to being a perpetual. If a primarch couldn't do it a normal marine certain can not.

Vulkan also died to a spork.

Most likely not.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Most likely not.

IIRC at some point of the HH books Curze grabbed a utensil and shoved it into Vulkan's breast, causing him to respawn.

so a primarch (one of the more crazy ones), drove a piece of metal through one of his brothers in a weakened state and momentarily killed him.

Again we have a clear example of Vulkan falling from orbit, burning and then healing because he is a perpetual.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
so a primarch (one of the more crazy ones), drove a piece of metal through one of his brothers in a weakened state and momentarily killed him.

Again we have a clear example of Vulkan falling from orbit, burning and then healing because he is a perpetual.

The point being that Vulkan is by no means a demonstration of durability for anybody. Because he respawned from reentry does not mean an Astartes wouldn't because Vulkan is all over the place when it comes to dying.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Most likely not.

IIRC at some point of the HH books Curze grabbed a utensil and shoved it into Vulkan's breast, causing him to respawn.

I meant about the reentry thing. My 30k armies are Reductor and Auxilia, so I don't care about the whole primarch thing. Afaik, spoiled brats can indeed be killed with sporks. All 18 of them.

I killed one with an Auxilia bayonet once so I know it is true!

Can a marine in powered armour survive a fall from orbit?

Answer unclear. Maybe, maybe not. The heat he's encountering will be worse than a heavy flamer, probably not as bad as a plasma weapon. I'm gonna point at flamestorm cannon and say 'too much for power armour'. Terminator plate - being originally designed for operation inside operational plasma reactors, can probably take the burn.

Can he survive landing after a fall from orbit?
No.


And no, marines in armour can't swim. They do a good line in sinking. That said, as long as their armour isn't compromised, they can just walk along the sea bed. The underwater battle mentioned was fought at the sea bed over underwater dome facilities - it's a long walk to the coastline and the surface but that's not an issue for astartes.

Plus even minus armour, they from one book can do 15-20 minutes before dying diving wise. Maybe less under combat conditions though

Triarch Praetorian could do it. Lychguard maybe not - it all depends on how badly damaged his core components are and if it trips his recall failsafes.

Assuming he doesn't phase out on the spot, the Lychguard could probably self-repair given enough time.

I can't remember if it is in Halo or in 40k that power armour can be completely sealed and joint-hardened so the wearer can survive an atmospheric fall (I know it's scientifically silly).

 jhe90 wrote:
Plus even minus armour, they from one book can do 15-20 minutes before dying diving wise. Maybe less under combat conditions though

That's bs and the author clearly didn't research gak. Space Marines can breathe indefinitely underwater- the multi-lung acts like a set of gills.

Engrenages wrote:
I can't remember if it is in Halo or in 40k that power armour can be completely sealed and joint-hardened so the wearer can survive an atmospheric fall (I know it's scientifically silly).

It's Halo, but they still need to be wearing a "Reentry Pack", a device that has no explanations attached to it. All we know is that it works. Master Chief fell far without one at the beginning of Halo 3, but it wasn't from space.

EDIT: As for Marines underwater - I'd expect the power armour helmet to contain a rebreather. It's silly not to.

 Wyzilla wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
so a primarch (one of the more crazy ones), drove a piece of metal through one of his brothers in a weakened state and momentarily killed him.

Again we have a clear example of Vulkan falling from orbit, burning and then healing because he is a perpetual.

The point being that Vulkan is by no means a demonstration of durability for anybody. Because he respawned from reentry does not mean an Astartes wouldn't because Vulkan is all over the place when it comes to dying.

Vulkan is the Kenny of the 40k universe.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
I can't remember if it is in Halo or in 40k that power armour can be completely sealed and joint-hardened so the wearer can survive an atmospheric fall (I know it's scientifically silly).

It's Halo, but they still need to be wearing a "Reentry Pack", a device that has no explanations attached to it. All we know is that it works. Master Chief fell far without one at the beginning of Halo 3, but it wasn't from space.

EDIT: As for Marines underwater - I'd expect the power armour helmet to contain a rebreather. It's silly not to.

Master Chief fell from 4 or 5 kilometers and almost died from it.

Actually I highly doubt a power armour can survive re-entry heat, and even if it does, the Space Marine inside would be baked. A Jump Pack's fuel would probably explode because of the heat.

 LethalShade wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
I can't remember if it is in Halo or in 40k that power armour can be completely sealed and joint-hardened so the wearer can survive an atmospheric fall (I know it's scientifically silly).

It's Halo, but they still need to be wearing a "Reentry Pack", a device that has no explanations attached to it. All we know is that it works. Master Chief fell far without one at the beginning of Halo 3, but it wasn't from space.

EDIT: As for Marines underwater - I'd expect the power armour helmet to contain a rebreather. It's silly not to.

Master Chief fell from 4 or 5 kilometers and almost died from it.

Actually I highly doubt a power armour can survive re-entry heat, and even if it does, the Space Marine inside would be baked. A Jump Pack's fuel would probably explode because of the heat.

The Chief was also using a piece of a ship as a heat shield, which probably helped with the being baked problem.

Space Marines - no

In Know No Fear a dreadnought does in a stasis crate (not designed for that sort of punishment)

Re the swimming question... It's power armour. They probably just need to set it to a repetitive thrash with the legs and leave the thing to it.

Mere humans have survived stupidly high falls - life is wierd

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/highest-fall-survived-without-parachute/

Vesna Vulovic (Yugoslavia) was 23 working as a Jugoslavenski Aerotransport hostess when she survived a fall from 10,160 m (33,333 ft) over Srbsk, Kamenice, Czechoslovakia (now Czech Republic), on 26 January 1972 after the DC-9 she was working aboard, blew up.

In January of 1943, Magee was a ball turret gunner in a B-17 Flying Fortress on a bombing run on the Atlantic coast of Nazi-occupied France. During the raid, his plane, called the "Snap! Crackle! Pop!", took enemy fire and broke up over the U-boat yards of St. Nazaire. Acting quickly, Magee escaped his turret and jumped from the flaming bomber without a parachute. Because of the altitude, Magee lost consciousness mid-fall before smashing through the glass roof of St. Nazaire's train station. Hours later, he awoke to find German doctors putting him back together. His injuries included a broken right leg and ankle, a nearly severed right arm, and 28 shrapnel wounds from shards of glass. Dr. Seth Izenberg, a trauma specialist at Legacy Emmanuel Hospital in Portland, Ore., says that while a fall from 20,000 feet sounds incredible, the extreme height makes little difference. "Anything above 10 or 12 stories and you've reached terminal velocity. So a fall from 20,000 feet sounds dramatic, but there's really no difference from a 500-foot fall."

Well, there was that guy who recently did a, what, ionoosphere drop for a Red Bull challenge or some such thing? Baumgartner, is that his name? Of course, he had very specialized equipment for doing this.

That said, it wasn't a free-fall into terminal velocity that ended with an abrupt stop at the bottom which, face it, if a bolter can punch through power armor, the Marine so dropping is going to leave a really big crater and be a ceramite pancake in the center of it.

No. No living thing can survive re-entry from space without some spacecraft designed to protect it.

All it would take is a single dent or crack in the marines armour, even if it is only minor and the frictional forces would rip it apart, like what happened to Columbia.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Mere humans have survived stupidly high falls - life is wierd

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/highest-fall-survived-without-parachute/

Vesna Vulovic (Yugoslavia) was 23 working as a Jugoslavenski Aerotransport hostess when she survived a fall from 10,160 m (33,333 ft) over Srbsk, Kamenice, Czechoslovakia (now Czech Republic), on 26 January 1972 after the DC-9 she was working aboard, blew up.

Problem with that is that someone falling from orbit is going to have a very fast initial velocity straight down, whereas falling from a plane generally means your initial velocity straight down is zero and you just accelerate to terminal velocity.

So the Space Marine is going to be coming in at well over his terminal velocity and if the time of flight isn't long enough for air resistance to slow him down adequately, he may hit the ground at a velocity greater than his terminal velocity.

... without an external means of acceleration, such as a jet-pack, it isn't possible to go faster than terminal velocity. That is why they call it "terminal velocity", it is the maximum speed an object will reach under the pull of gravity alone.

It's never possible to go faster than terminal velocity!

Yes it is.

In orbit, there is no air resistance, so your terminal velocity is effectively infinite.

So if your terminal velocity is 2m/s (because you're a feather) but you're travelling in orbit at 2,000,000 meters per second, then you might hit the ground at, say, 30 m/s (15 times your terminal velocity!) depending on how much air resistance slowed you down.

That is, if the friction did not simply burn you up.

No, it is NOT. EVER.

 Wulfmar wrote:
It's never possible to go faster than terminal velocity!

It is, but you need some means of acceleration. Overcoming the pull of gravity and air resistance is how flight is made possible, after all. Supersonic jets, for example, are moving much faster than terminal velocity.

For the scenario provided here, I am assuming that the Marine in question is falling into an Earth-like planet. If not, if it is some low-gravity world or something like that, then it's exceedingly possible for the Marine to survive the drop... in fact, if the planet is low-G enough, it might actually be impossible for the Marine to even get pulled into its gravity well.

Terminal Velocity

= Maximum Velocity.

If you change one force, you simply move the maximum velocity for the given factors.

Terminal is terminal, it will change according to the variables present, but it will ALWAYS be terminal.


Question = if you add a jetpack as you say and boost the rate of falling to the maximum the jetpack can push you - what is the new maximum speed called?

 Wulfmar wrote:
No, it is NOT. EVER.

Yes it is. If you stand on top of a building and fire a .30cal gun with a muzzle velocity of 700m/s straight at the ground, will the bullet hit the ground at 90m/s (the terminal velocity of a .30cal bullet in free fall) or slightly less than 700m/s?

Okay you know what, don't listen to the teacher.

 Wulfmar wrote:
Terminal Velocity

= Maximum Velocity.

If you change one force, you simply move the maximum velocity for the given factors.

Terminal is terminal, it will change according to the variables present, but it will ALWAYS be terminal.


Question = if you add a jetpack as you say and boost the rate of falling to the maximum the jetpack can push you - what is the new maximum speed called?

You are assuming an initial velocity of zero. If an object is thrown down (which is effectively what has happened in the space marine scenario as he is entering the atmosphere with a non-zero initial velocity), rather than dropped, it can exceed the terminal velocity. It just means that it will decelerate towards that terminal velocity rather than accelerate towards it.

If the time of flight is not long enough for the object to decelerate to its terminal velocity, then it will impact at a higher velocity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Okay you know what, don't listen to the teacher.

I do listen to teachers.

My Professors.

Nope, still not making sense.


You're assuming as is taught at secondary school that Terminal Velocity is ONLY relevant to moving through air.

This is not true. It's the movement through any medium.


Before anyone says it, Space is NOT a true vacuum either. There will be friction.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

I do listen to teachers.

My Professors.

What kind of professors have got that so horrendously wrong? You should demand your money back from the course (or, as I'm assuming, you haven't paid attention to them properly because NO professor would make that daft assertion that you can go faster than your MAXIMUM/TERMINAL velocity. You can CHANGE the terminal velocity, but you will never exceed it.)

 Wulfmar wrote:
Terminal Velocity

= Maximum Velocity.

If you change one force, you simply move the maximum velocity for the given factors.

Terminal is terminal, it will change according to the variables present, but it will ALWAYS be terminal.


Question = if you add a jetpack as you say and boost the rate of falling to the maximum the jetpack can push you - what is the new maximum speed called?

If the pull of gravity coupled with the resistance of the atmosphere is expressed as X, we reach a terminal velocity of X, where the falling object's total acceleration is 0 (Pull of gravity vs air resistance must = 0 to reach terminal velocity). If the jet-pack adds a maximum acceleration of 150m/s, the Velocity of the Object is now X+150m/s.

So, in our fictional planet here, if terminal velocity (X) is 120m/s, adding the jetpack means the Marine is now flying at 270m/s straight down. He is now falling faster than the planet could possibly pull him down unaided.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Terminal Velocity

= Maximum Velocity.

If you change one force, you simply move the maximum velocity for the given factors.

Terminal is terminal, it will change according to the variables present, but it will ALWAYS be terminal.


Question = if you add a jetpack as you say and boost the rate of falling to the maximum the jetpack can push you - what is the new maximum speed called?

If the pull of gravity coupled with the resistance of the atmosphere is expressed as X, we reach a terminal velocity of X, where the falling object's total acceleration is 0 (Pull of gravity vs air resistance must = 0 to reach terminal velocity). If the jet-pack adds a maximum acceleration of 150m/s, the Velocity of the Object is now X+150m/s.

And what would you call this new maximum speed?

 Wulfmar wrote:
Nope, still not making sense.


You're assuming as is taught at secondary school that Terminal Velocity is ONLY relevant to moving through air.

This is not true. It's the movement through any medium.


Before anyone says it, Space is NOT a true vacuum either. There will be friction.

The density of space is approximately 1 atom per cubic centimetre. And that is one of the higher estimates. So, yes, a 1cm box moving at 1m/s will bump into a single atom every second. Which will have no measurable effect on the velocity of the box.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

I do listen to teachers.

My Professors.

What kind of professors have got that so horrendously wrong? You should demand your money back from the course (or, as I'm assuming, you haven't paid attention to them properly because NO professor would make that daft assertion that you can go faster than your MAXIMUM/TERMINAL velocity. You can CHANGE the terminal velocity, but you will never exceed it.)

Your interpretation is wrong because it cannot satisfy real world observations.

For example, could you answer the gun question? Because your interpretation leads to the answer that as soon as the force on the bullet is gone, it will instantaneously start travelling at its terminal velocity of 90m/s.

Alternatively, the terminal velocity of a tennis ball is 60 mph. The fastest recorded tennis serve is 163.7mph. According to you, that is impossible.

So, you are wrong. The terminal velocity of an object can be exceeded provided that the initial force is big enough or the object is entering a medium with a higher density than the one it is leaving and it has a speed greater than the terminal velocity for the denser medium.

 Wulfmar wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Terminal Velocity

= Maximum Velocity.

If you change one force, you simply move the maximum velocity for the given factors.

Terminal is terminal, it will change according to the variables present, but it will ALWAYS be terminal.


Question = if you add a jetpack as you say and boost the rate of falling to the maximum the jetpack can push you - what is the new maximum speed called?

If the pull of gravity coupled with the resistance of the atmosphere is expressed as X, we reach a terminal velocity of X, where the falling object's total acceleration is 0 (Pull of gravity vs air resistance must = 0 to reach terminal velocity). If the jet-pack adds a maximum acceleration of 150m/s, the Velocity of the Object is now X+150m/s.

And what would you call this new maximum speed?

Flight.

Are you guys really arguing over terminology ?

+ Going to leave this here :

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/termv.html

 Wulfmar wrote:


And what would you call this new maximum speed?

You would not call it the terminal velocity as that is a well defined parameter.

It would be akin to describing the electrostatic force as gravity because it attracts stuff.

The terminal velocity of an object is the speed at which the force due to gravity and the force due to air resistance are equal in magnitude. It is not the absolute maximum velocity that an object can travel at. Only the speed of light has that honour.

Man jumps out a plane with a gun.
Man falls due to gravity. Air resistance (drag) increases until Terminal Velocity is reached.
Man fires gun downwards - bullet travels out with a higher Terminal Velocity due to the force of the shot
Air resistance will act upon it in exactly the same way. Eventually downwards force (gravity and thrust) will equal out to reach a new Terminal Velocity. During this process, Terminal Velocity will decrease to a new set point.



Did you guys ever get taught about the guy jumping from an aeroplane and opening a parachute and how his terminal velocity changes? Absolutely NO difference here.

Same with an object entering the atmosphere - Terminal Velocity in space changes when friction increases due to entering the atmosphere.

Rubbish?

"Terminal velocity is the highest velocity attainable by an object as it falls through air"

Tell me, is a bullet fired from a gun straight downwards "falling"? Because it's moving considerably faster than it would be if you just dropped it.

 Flinty wrote:
Re the swimming question... It's power armour. They probably just need to set it to a repetitive thrash with the legs and leave the thing to it.

They also can use the exhausts in the backpack for jet propulsion. They use it in space, no reason why they can't set the fusion reactor to overdrive to "fly" through the water.

 Wulfmar wrote:
I actually can't believe the rubbish I'm reading on here tonight.


Man jumps out a plane with a gun.
Man falls due to gravity. Air resistance (drag) increases until Terminal Velocity is reached.
Man fires gun downwards - bullet travels out with a higher Terminal Velocity due to the force of the shot
Air resistance will act upon it in exactly the same way. Eventually downwards force (gravity and thrust) will equal out to reach a new Terminal Velocity. During this process, Terminal Velocity will decrease to a new set point.



Did you guys ever get taught about the guy jumping from an aeroplane and opening a parachute and how his terminal velocity changes? Absolutely NO difference here.

Same with an object entering the atmosphere - Terminal Velocity in space changes when friction increases due to entering the atmosphere.

Terminal velocity is a fixed value for given mass, acceleration due to gravity, density of medium, drag coefficient and area. It is calculated by setting the force of gravity equal to the force of air resistance and solving for velocity. It is not just the velocity that the object happens to be travelling at at any moment in time.

If an object is at terminal velocity in a low density medium and enters a denser medium then the force due to drag will increase. This increase in drag will slow the object down over time until such a point as the forces are balanced again. It is only when the forces of air resistance and gravity are balanced that an object is travelling at its terminal velocity. For all the time at which those forces are not balanced, the object has been falling faster than its terminal velocity.

WAIT: I see what has happened

English is a donkeycave of a language (I'm not English though I've moved here). Maximum does not equal Terminal. Am I right?

That's why I was writing Maximum/Terminal in previous posts.

Terminal would be more like "Final", I guess. But I'm not a native English speaker.

Okay then, let's get back to the question instead of your e-peen contest trying to convince the other (who has a set opinion roughly as likely to change as a set and hardened concrete sidewalk is when I slap it with my hand) you're right about terminal velocity.

TLDR: Both of you stop wasting other's time and go to pm if you want to keep bickering.

Terminal velocity is a defined term, and in no way means maximum velocity except in a very specific set of circumstances (that is, free-fall in a sufficiently dense atmosphere).

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Terminal velocity is a defined term, and in no way means maximum velocity except in a very specific set of circumstances (that is, free-fall in a sufficiently dense atmosphere).

 LethalShade wrote:
Terminal would be more like "Final", I guess. But I'm not a native English speaker.

Thanks - didn't realise they meant different things. They're right

 Wulfmar wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Terminal velocity is a defined term, and in no way means maximum velocity except in a very specific set of circumstances (that is, free-fall in a sufficiently dense atmosphere).

 LethalShade wrote:
Terminal would be more like "Final", I guess. But I'm not a native English speaker.

Thanks - didn't realise they meant different things. They're right

No problem. I always like a bit of physics debate in my wargaming

The penny dropped when I looked at the link and translated it and it came up with a different word: Endgeschwindigkeit and not maximal - I was starting to think the world gone mad xD

 Psienesis wrote:


For the scenario provided here, I am assuming that the Marine in question is falling into an Earth-like planet. If not, if it is some low-gravity world or something like that, then it's exceedingly possible for the Marine to survive the drop... in fact, if the planet is low-G enough, it might actually be impossible for the Marine to even get pulled into its gravity well.

Problem I see is OP makes mention of a Necron being the subject, but then posits the question as if the subject was in fact a Space Marine.

If they did then the idea of transporting them via drop pods and Thunderhawk would be made moot. Even meteorites don't survive re-entry intact.

The case with Vesna Vulovic is a bit misleading: she survived a free fall but she was inside the plane when it crashed, which presents very different circumstances as oppose to falling out of a plane to the ground.

In all cases involving humans surviving free falls, none of them walked away unscathed, and certainly not in condition to start making a fight within minutes. It can take months if not years for people to recover.

A Space Marine might be expected to survive free fall (assuming things like Earth-level gravity and hospital environment, etc.) provided he is recovered by Apothecaries and treated accordingly.
I suppose you can just make it so a Space Marine crashes to a planet and just gest up to swing his chainsword, but that makes for a less interesting story.

if I were the OP I'd just adjust the story where planetary characteristics (like gravity fluctations, or falls into an ocean of soft mud), or equipment the character has on hand, allowed for survival. Otherwise it wouldn't make for an interesting or compelling story when impractical scenarios have the characters walking away unscathed. Not unless you want the story made into a Micheal Bay movie!

flirice wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:


For the scenario provided here, I am assuming that the Marine in question is falling into an Earth-like planet. If not, if it is some low-gravity world or something like that, then it's exceedingly possible for the Marine to survive the drop... in fact, if the planet is low-G enough, it might actually be impossible for the Marine to even get pulled into its gravity well.

Problem I see is OP makes mention of a Necron being the subject, but then posits the question as if the subject was in fact a Space Marine.

If they did then the idea of transporting them via drop pods and Thunderhawk would be made moot. Even meteorites don't survive re-entry intact.

The case with Vesna Vulovic is a bit misleading: she survived a free fall but she was inside the plane when it crashed, which presents very different circumstances as oppose to falling out of a plane to the ground.

In all cases involving humans surviving free falls, none of them walked away unscathed, and certainly not in condition to start making a fight within minutes. It can take months if not years for people to recover.

A Space Marine might be expected to survive free fall (assuming things like Earth-level gravity and hospital environment, etc.) provided he is recovered by Apothecaries and treated accordingly.
I suppose you can just make it so a Space Marine crashes to a planet and just gest up to swing his chainsword, but that makes for a less interesting story.

if I were the OP I'd just adjust the story where planetary characteristics (like gravity fluctations, or falls into an ocean of soft mud), or equipment the character has on hand, allowed for survival. Otherwise it wouldn't make for an interesting or compelling story when impractical scenarios have the characters walking away unscathed. Not unless you want the story made into a Micheal Bay movie!

Indeed its going to depend on the landing by a Space amrine has much better healing abilities and redundancies than a human - he is likely to be several damaged by=ut might be able to operate in some form:

Also another interesting free fall that only resulted in minor injuries: (but he hit trees and snow)

n the night of 24 March 1944, 21-year-old Alkemade was one of seven crew members in Avro Lancaster B Mk. II, DS664,[1] of No. 115 Squadron RAF. Returning from a 300 bomber raid on Berlin, east of Schmallenberg, DS664 was attacked by a Luftwaffe Ju 88 night-fighter, flown by Hauptmann Gerhard Friedrich, 1./NJG 6 , caught fire and began to spiral out of control. Because his parachute was unserviceable, Alkemade jumped from the aircraft without one, preferring to die by impact rather than burn to death. He fell 18,000 feet (5,500 m) to the ground below.
His fall was broken by pine trees and a soft snow cover on the ground. He was able to move his arms and legs and suffered only a sprained leg

Re-entry and free-fall are way different.

For example, a log can survive free-fall from, say, 10,000 feet, likely with only some cracks and splinters. But it cannot survive re-entry, I guarantee it would incinerate into ash and particles before it came anywhere near 10,000 feet, even.

Terminal velocity only applies to freefall. Terminal velocity is tje macimum velocity an object can fall at. If you use a jetpack or apply additional forces its no longer falling, its being push/flown/whatever.

As for surviving r-entry, I reckon it could be done if the Marine has sufficient plot armour/bad ass points/strength of will to not die. Space Marine armour is capable of withstanding heavy flamers which can melt through the heavy steel that makes up Ork Heavy Armour, so that's around about 2700 celsius. Dunno how hot Flamestorm cannons are but probably significantly more. The armour would likely be cracked, melted and useless, but the marine might survive. If he was in good condition before falling and had his fall sloeed sufficiently, or hit a mountain at the right angle to roll down, as in parrallel, he could survive. And before someone says that's rubbish, that's the same advice I got when friends of mine did skydiving. Aim for trees, bushes or roll down a hill.


As for underwater, the third lung is capable of breathing in water. The biggest danger would be pressure. Astartes can most certainly take much higher pressure than humans even unarmoured. Maybe not 4 miles deep pressure, maybe 2-3 times what humans can handle. Armoured they can probably survive any pressure. The only issues then are the slower movements (negligible) and getting anywhere, but they have Land Raiders to get them places.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus, Vulkan wasn't wearing his armour when he did reentry, which is why he burnt up.

Steel melts at ~1500 degrees celsius, not 2700.

The Apollo command modules reached ~2700 degrees celsius on re-entry.

Question is, would the power armour of a space marine boil away on re-entry (and so act as an ablative heat shield like the heat shields of the command module and space shuttle) or would it just get hotter and hotter, in which case we're going to end up with a very cooked marine?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Steel melts at ~1500 degrees celsius, not 2700.

The Apollo command modules reached ~2700 degrees celsius on re-entry.

Question is, would the power armour of a space marine boil away on re-entry (and so act as an ablative heat shield like the heat shields of the command module and space shuttle) or would it just get hotter and hotter, in which case we're going to end up with a very cooked marine?

Pardon me, I was thinking in Farenheit from watching US blacksmiths.

I am tempted to think that the latter. See, they have a ceramite layer which is heat resistant. Ceramite is the stuff that protects Stormravens and other flyers from re-entry and melta weapons and it doesn't peel off.

Ceramite is notoriously heat-resistant. I am pretty sure he'd survive the re-entry if the armour is intact.

As for the ground impact, it depends on how he lands. On his neck? He's dead. On his feet? A Marine has survived falling through an elevator shaft in the kilometres before. He'll break his legs, but it's merely a setback.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Ceramite is notoriously heat-resistant. I am pretty sure he'd survive the re-entry if the armour is intact.

As for the ground impact, it depends on how he lands. On his neck? He's dead. On his feet? A Marine has survived falling through an elevator shaft in the kilometres before. He'll break his legs, but it's merely a setback.

Well, Ceramite may be heat-resistant, but it can conduct it to the Space Marine inside, cooking him in his own armor.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Ceramite is notoriously heat-resistant. I am pretty sure he'd survive the re-entry if the armour is intact.

As for the ground impact, it depends on how he lands. On his neck? He's dead. On his feet? A Marine has survived falling through an elevator shaft in the kilometres before. He'll break his legs, but it's merely a setback.

The plating might survive, but the joints? Less likely. There is a reason that all re-entry heat shields are basically a solid, unjointed slab of ablative. Those joints are not designed to withstand anything near the amount of force or heat that the plates are, as to do so they'd either need to be made of a much more flexible material with the same protection characteristics (in which case why bother with the bulky, impractable plates?) or would be so stiff and bulky as to prevent all movement.

Now during combat this doesn't matter as the marine can protect them from gunfire by positioning himself but he doesn't have that luxury when falling. If he's falling headfirst then his neck joint is gonna be getting very hot, feetfirst and his leg joints and arm joints etc.

Also, due to the non-aerodynamic shape of the marines power armour (especially those massive shoulder pads) he'll end up with potentially large forces on some parts and minor ones on others. These force differentials could just rip the armour (and the marine inside) apart well before impact.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
No. No living thing can survive re-entry from space without some spacecraft designed to protect it.

Mycetic spores and certain other Tyranid bioforms can, so it's not "no living thing". Plus, I wouldn't call drop pods "spacecraft", and I'm sure a sufficiently advanced civilisation could make something like a suit or even wrist-mounted device that'd work. Imagine sky-diving from orbit in the far, far future!

I'd give a Lychguard a slim chance of survival. A Space Marine, no. I could see a Marine surviving a massive fall after his drop pod/transport malfunctions, though. The plating might be in fairly reasonable condition (or rather, it might be surprisingly recognisable), but the Marine inside would have been cooked long before. This is how I rationalise Marines dying to heat-based weapons that don't penetrate their armour: the armour attempts to regulate internal body temperature, and though the ceramite can withstand great heat before it truly starts to be damaged, the wearer cannot. So the internal temperature would rise beyond the armour's ability to regulate it, and the wearer would die. That, and I imagine that the armour itself would be torn apart by the forces at work; the inner layer that connects the plates is not made of ceramite and is not as hardy.

The Lychguard, on the other hand, would be constantly regenerating throughout the process. I'd imagine their limbs would be torn off, and they'd likely crash as nothing but a vaguely ball-shaped lump of scorched necrodermis. But they can regenerate from that, can't they?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Ceramite is notoriously heat-resistant. I am pretty sure he'd survive the re-entry if the armour is intact.

As for the ground impact, it depends on how he lands. On his neck? He's dead. On his feet? A Marine has survived falling through an elevator shaft in the kilometres before. He'll break his legs, but it's merely a setback.

The plating might survive, but the joints? Less likely. There is a reason that all re-entry heat shields are basically a solid, unjointed slab of ablative. Those joints are not designed to withstand anything near the amount of force or heat that the plates are, as to do so they'd either need to be made of a much more flexible material with the same protection characteristics (in which case why bother with the bulky, impractable plates?) or would be so stiff and bulky as to prevent all movement.

Now during combat this doesn't matter as the marine can protect them from gunfire by positioning himself but he doesn't have that luxury when falling. If he's falling headfirst then his neck joint is gonna be getting very hot, feetfirst and his leg joints and arm joints etc.

Also, due to the non-aerodynamic shape of the marines power armour (especially those massive shoulder pads) he'll end up with potentially large forces on some parts and minor ones on others. These force differentials could just rip the armour (and the marine inside) apart well before impact.

The joints aren't unarmored, power armor is made of synthetic metal muscles (think of the nanosuit from crysis, but metal), with the composite plates slapped on top. They might melt and fuse, but they're certainly still heat resistant.

Good answers here so far.

The lychguard in question is equipped with a sword and shield, which gives it an invulnerable save, increasing its survivability.

Can a space marine take getting hit by a delivery van? If so then so can the lychguard.


And I spelled reentry wrong.

I doubt they'd even make it to the ground. The heat from re-entry would fry them to, at best, a slab of unrecognizable bio-ceramic sludge.

Yeah - I am not sure the people here quite understand what heat re-entry generates.

If we take rules as any indication, hotter than a melta gun, since heat shielding on orbit to ground spacecraft also happens to protect from melta.

Using melta as a measure is a difficult thing, since it doesn't reduce Melta weapons to Str 0 or anything; ie they still work, just not as effectively. Good observation, though.

Also, the heat of re-entry would be far longer than a single melta blast, anyway.

As much as I love Halo, mentioning events that occur in that totally separate fiction are about as relevant as mentioning that, in the anime, Sonic once fell from space (more likely the exosphere) and was completely fine afterwards. Or that the RX-78 Gundam could do it.

That said, what instances are there other than Master Chief's low-atmosphere jump and Noble Six's Reentry Pack-enabled fall?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Ceramite is notoriously heat-resistant. I am pretty sure he'd survive the re-entry if the armour is intact.

As for the ground impact, it depends on how he lands. On his neck? He's dead. On his feet? A Marine has survived falling through an elevator shaft in the kilometres before. He'll break his legs, but it's merely a setback.

Reading this made me remember something. In "Flesh of Cretacia" there actually is an example of a marine landing after a fall, although not from orbit.

jayko657 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Ceramite is notoriously heat-resistant. I am pretty sure he'd survive the re-entry if the armour is intact.

As for the ground impact, it depends on how he lands. On his neck? He's dead. On his feet? A Marine has survived falling through an elevator shaft in the kilometres before. He'll break his legs, but it's merely a setback.

Reading this made me remember something. In "Flesh of Cretacia" there actually is an example of a marine landing after a fall, although not from orbit.

Spoiler:

After an assault squad is forced to abandon their Stormraven, they all jump out. However, one of them quickly realises that his jump pack isn't working, and prepares himself for a rather pathetic death. He ends up surviving, but his jump pack is destroyed beyond repair, his armor is damaged and cracked in some sections, and his arm is broken. Still combat ready due to space marine biology but if a fall like that was enough to nearly kill him, falling from orbit would almost certainly be lethal on impact.

I think we have established that there are two elements

Entering the atmosphere and suriviving the heat - this is unlikely
Suriviving the subsequent freefall - this is likely/ possible. The height is irrelevant beyind 500ft

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah - I am not sure the people here quite understand what heat re-entry generates.

If we take rules as any indication, hotter than a melta gun, since heat shielding on orbit to ground spacecraft also happens to protect from melta.

HA

Not even in the same OOM, in fact removed several times over. Meltaguns and Plasma Guns generate temperatures equal to those found on the surface of Sol. Twenty million degrees and greater. Reentry IIRC is far, far, faaaar lighter, with spacecraft experiencing temperatures of around three thousand degrees celcius upon burning in.

Not to mention that we have no reason at all to believe that military grade heat shielding against lasers, masers, and plasma is even REMOTELY comparable to mere reentry shields.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah - I am not sure the people here quite understand what heat re-entry generates.

If we take rules as any indication, hotter than a melta gun, since heat shielding on orbit to ground spacecraft also happens to protect from melta.

HA

Not even in the same OOM, in fact removed several times over. Meltaguns and Plasma Guns generate temperatures equal to those found on the surface of Sol. Twenty million degrees and greater. Reentry IIRC is far, far, faaaar lighter, with spacecraft experiencing temperatures of around three thousand degrees celcius upon burning in.

Not to mention that we have no reason at all to believe that military grade heat shielding against lasers, masers, and plasma is even REMOTELY comparable to mere reentry shields.

Actually, you're wrong. The Sun has a surface temperature of 5778 K ( ~ 5500 °C). Its core has a temperature of ~ 15 000 000 °C.

And yet plasma is not as good at penetrating armor as melta.

Its been done in fluff, by the one of the Raven Guard or Alphas. Cant remember which. They didnt hit the ground, but landed on some hovering base via jet pack. Cant remember which book but the were lots of Iron Hands and a attempted assassination attempt on Alpharius.

the ancient wrote:
They didnt hit the ground, but landed on some hovering base via jet pack.

 mondo80 wrote:
Could a space marine or equivalent survive re-entry from orbit to a planet surface intact without a drop pod or jump pack?

?

 Melissia wrote:
And yet plasma is not as good at penetrating armor as melta.

Because meltaguns are even hotter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah - I am not sure the people here quite understand what heat re-entry generates.

If we take rules as any indication, hotter than a melta gun, since heat shielding on orbit to ground spacecraft also happens to protect from melta.

HA

Not even in the same OOM, in fact removed several times over. Meltaguns and Plasma Guns generate temperatures equal to those found on the surface of Sol. Twenty million degrees and greater. Reentry IIRC is far, far, faaaar lighter, with spacecraft experiencing temperatures of around three thousand degrees celcius upon burning in.

Not to mention that we have no reason at all to believe that military grade heat shielding against lasers, masers, and plasma is even REMOTELY comparable to mere reentry shields.

Actually, you're wrong. The Sun has a surface temperature of 5778 K ( ~ 5500 °C). Its core has a temperature of ~ 15 000 000 °C.

Also, I was talking more about the solar flares, which are ejected material from the core. My bad.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yet plasma is not as good at penetrating armor as melta.

Because meltaguns are even hotter.

And still not hot enough to get through re-entry heat shielding.

Scions made a stratospheric jump in their codex, so it's possible for SM's to do it.

Don't they have grav-shutes or something though?

Yes, but they survived the heat, that was my point, obviously Marines are going to need jump packs

But grav-chutes would surely slow them down to the point where they wouldn't be going fast enough for the friction to matter?

 Bobthehero wrote:
Yes, but they survived the heat, that was my point, obviously Marines are going to need jump packs

So did Felix Baumgartner.

You're right, but,I reread the blurb, the Scion explicitly survive ''atmos-burns'' the stratosphere is never mentioned, my mistake.

They use ''little more than carapace armor and ionised body shroud of pressed alloy'' and they also activate their grav chutes after they go through the atmosphere

Also, the problem with re-entry is way different than jumping from an altitude. The problem with re-entry is that an orbital velocity tends to be ridiculously high, high enough than any friction at all (such as with an atmosphere) would vaporize the object in question without very very purpose-built equipment.

Anything in the stratosphere is unlikely to have an orbital velocity.

 Bobthehero wrote:
You're right, but,I reread the blurb, the Scion explicitly survive ''atmos-burns'' the stratosphere is never mentioned, my mistake.

They use ''little more than carapace armor and ionised body shroud of pressed alloy'' and they also activate their grav chutes after they go through the atmosphere

Is carapace armour or the "ionised body shroud" pressurised?

Also, how did they control the spin of their descent? One of the big risks of the Baumgartner jump was from going into a flat spin, which would force all the blood into his head and feet. When you're in thicker atmosphere it's easy to correct for a skilled skydiver but if you're in very low atmosphere it is a lot harder.

Which is why the lychguard has a shield, it would act as an atmospheric brake assisted by energy shield it has.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yet plasma is not as good at penetrating armor as melta.

Because meltaguns are even hotter.

And still not hot enough to get through re-entry heat shielding.

We have no reason to believe that heat shielding exists solely for reentry. Also you're using game mechanics to justify anything. 40K's game mechanics are useless abstractions that clearly should only be tossed in the trash and never used in any discussion of the 'reality' of the fictional universe. Game rules at most are a starting point for any deduction to be made, but even that's stretching it.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
You're right, but,I reread the blurb, the Scion explicitly survive ''atmos-burns'' the stratosphere is never mentioned, my mistake.

They use ''little more than carapace armor and ionised body shroud of pressed alloy'' and they also activate their grav chutes after they go through the atmosphere

Is carapace armour or the "ionised body shroud" pressurised?

Also, how did they control the spin of their descent? One of the big risks of the Baumgartner jump was from going into a flat spin, which would force all the blood into his head and feet. When you're in thicker atmosphere it's easy to correct for a skilled skydiver but if you're in very low atmosphere it is a lot harder.

Grav chute magic, I guess or something, its GW, they're not going to go into details like that, they just want to tell the story of people being shoved out the airlock and onto a planet surface.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Grav chute magic, I guess or something, its GW, they're not going to go into details like that, they just want to tell the story of people being shoved out the airlock and onto a planet surface.

Which should also handily explain whether a Space Marine or Necron Warrior can survive a fall from orbit. If it's a mook no one needs he's dead, if it's the hero of the book he'll survive and quite likely still kick some major butt.

So since I'm writing the story, I decide the physics? Cool. the next part would be figuring out the impact crater size. Time to watch some YouTube.

Uh, no. Grav chutes are specific types of backpack-mounted utility items. They aren't just a standard part of power armor.

The average marine does not wear a grav-chute.

Here's one variant of a Grav-Chute, the ones the Elysians use:

Wyzilla wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yet plasma is not as good at penetrating armor as melta.

Because meltaguns are even hotter.

And still not hot enough to get through re-entry heat shielding.

We have no reason to believe that heat shielding exists solely for reentry. Also you're using game mechanics to justify anything. 40K's game mechanics are useless abstractions that clearly should only be tossed in the trash and never used in any discussion of the 'reality' of the fictional universe. Game rules at most are a starting point for any deduction to be made, but even that's stretching it.

Hey man, believe what you will. But it is telling that the only Imperial units immune to Melta in the 41st Millenium are orbital interface craft.

 mondo80 wrote:
So since I'm writing the story, I decide the physics? Cool. the next part would be figuring out the impact crater size. Time to watch some YouTube.

I suppose, it is an alien world so you can make anything up so as to allow a character to survive re-entry. But if you're talking Earth-like and a Space Marine plummets into the ground but gets up like it was just a ten foot drop, then I wouldn't call it a great story, it would sort of encourage "Stormtrooper syndrome" into the W40k fluff, and we already have enough of that.

Since you say Lynchguard I suppose you can make it like he was made of a particularly special necrodermis body and it held him together to go through the atmosphere but he lost his shield.

As for re-entry and power armour, I would say that power armour was designed first and foremost for combat, and in most cases combat doesn't include flying into a planet's atmosphere, where we already have well-developed fluff regarding drop pods and spacecraft. Does the story really demand someone putting into a situation where s/he must endure re-entry and then free-fall without any specialized equipment?

I mean, you guys realize the fact that they can't really survive orbital re-entry is WHY marines use drop pods... right?

Someone said a fall from 500 ft is the same as one from 20000 ft, could a space marine or tougher fall from that height, survive it and wonder "damn, what does it take to kill me?"

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yet plasma is not as good at penetrating armor as melta.

Because meltaguns are even hotter.

And still not hot enough to get through re-entry heat shielding.

We have no reason to believe that heat shielding exists solely for reentry. Also you're using game mechanics to justify anything. 40K's game mechanics are useless abstractions that clearly should only be tossed in the trash and never used in any discussion of the 'reality' of the fictional universe. Game rules at most are a starting point for any deduction to be made, but even that's stretching it.

Hey man, believe what you will. But it is telling that the only Imperial units immune to Melta in the 41st Millenium are orbital interface craft.

Immune to the melta bonus, that is. A single hit still has good odds of blowing said craft up.

Also game mechanics etc.

Game mechanics are good indication of what s unit can or can't do.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yet plasma is not as good at penetrating armor as melta.

Because meltaguns are even hotter.

And still not hot enough to get through re-entry heat shielding.

We have no reason to believe that heat shielding exists solely for reentry. Also you're using game mechanics to justify anything. 40K's game mechanics are useless abstractions that clearly should only be tossed in the trash and never used in any discussion of the 'reality' of the fictional universe. Game rules at most are a starting point for any deduction to be made, but even that's stretching it.

Hey man, believe what you will. But it is telling that the only Imperial units immune to Melta in the 41st Millenium are orbital interface craft.

Or maybe the more likely option is that aircraft where the primary weapon is lascannons decided that the more practical approach to armor was to beef up the cermaics.

 mondo80 wrote:
Someone said a fall from 500 ft is the same as one from 20000 ft, could a space marine or tougher fall from that height, survive it and wonder "damn, what does it take to kill me?"

There comes a point where, without any other events in the fall happening, you reach terminal velocity and then it won't matter how far you fall. For a human skydiver, going "belly to earth" in free-fall, it takes about 15 seconds to reach 99% of terminal velocity (it's not a simple measure of distance, because air density changes, which affects drag, which affects reaching terminal velocity). So, in effect, the farther you fall (rather, the greater height you fall from), the slower you end up actually going (though this is a trivial distinction, in the end).

End of the day, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the abrupt stop at the bottom.

Melissia wrote:Uh, no. Grav chutes are specific types of backpack-mounted utility items. They aren't just a standard part of power armor.

The average marine does not wear a grav-chute.

Here's one variant of a Grav-Chute, the ones the Elysians use:

That's one from an equipment pod, the ones the Elysians themselves wear look more like this;l



_________________

OK, if the Lychguard has a Dispersion Shield, you're looking at a completely different scenario. Dispersion Shield would definitely protect against the head of re-entry, because Dispersion Shields reflect the energy of whatever hits them back outwards in a blast wave. Whatever was under the Lychguard's landing sight would be hit by the full heat of her re-entry and the full force of her descent, except instead of the heat being spread out over the entire length of a fall, it would all hit them at once.

You'd end up with the Lychguard having a feather-soft landing on a cushion of fiery death that pulverises the surface she's landing on. She'd then have to dig her way out of a pit of atomised dust, and be then standing on a planet that may have just had an extinction level event go off at her location, but the Lychguard would be fine.

Oh, and then she'd have to deal with the atmospheric effects of basically pulling a big wedge of cold down from outer space into the super-heated remains of her landing.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Game mechanics are good indication of what s unit can or can't do.

If you're 100% certain that an IG company commander in flak armor can tank substantially more lasgun fire than a SoB in full PA, by all means. I imagine you will find many who disagree.

jayko657 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Ceramite is notoriously heat-resistant. I am pretty sure he'd survive the re-entry if the armour is intact.

As for the ground impact, it depends on how he lands. On his neck? He's dead. On his feet? A Marine has survived falling through an elevator shaft in the kilometres before. He'll break his legs, but it's merely a setback.

Reading this made me remember something. In "Flesh of Cretacia" there actually is an example of a marine landing after a fall, although not from orbit.

Spoiler:

After an assault squad is forced to abandon their Stormraven, they all jump out. However, one of them quickly realises that his jump pack isn't working, and prepares himself for a rather pathetic death. He ends up surviving, but his jump pack is destroyed beyond repair, his armor is damaged and cracked in some sections, and his arm is broken. Still combat ready due to space marine biology but if a fall like that was enough to nearly kill him, falling from orbit would almost certainly be lethal on impact.

I, uh, messed up, and feel the need to apologize for doing so. Literally the following paragraph after I stopped reading, the space marine looks up at a tree canopy that broke his fall. So it wasn't a pure free fall, and I forgot to mention that he was unconscious for some time after hitting the ground. My bad.

 Psienesis wrote:

 mondo80 wrote:
Someone said a fall from 500 ft is the same as one from 20000 ft, could a space marine or tougher fall from that height, survive it and wonder "damn, what does it take to kill me?"

There comes a point where, without any other events in the fall happening, you reach terminal velocity and then it won't matter how far you fall. For a human skydiver, going "belly to earth" in free-fall, it takes about 15 seconds to reach 99% of terminal velocity (it's not a simple measure of distance, because air density changes, which affects drag, which affects reaching terminal velocity). So, in effect, the farther you fall (rather, the greater height you fall from), the slower you end up actually going (though this is a trivial distinction, in the end).

End of the day, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the abrupt stop at the bottom.

Actually, when it comes to orbital re-entry, it IS the fall that kills you.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Game mechanics are good indication of what s unit can or can't do.

If you're 100% certain that an IG company commander in flak armor can tank substantially more lasgun fire than a SoB in full PA, by all means. I imagine you will find many who disagree.

Beats the physic breaking SM's and other insults to decency, and I said good, perfect, there's still flaws.

Ok, if the Lychguard has a Dispersion Shield, you're looking at a completely different scenario. Dispersion Shield would definitely protect against the head of re-entry, because Dispersion Shields reflect the energy of whatever hits them back outwards in a blast wave. Whatever was under the Lychguard's landing sight would be hit by the full heat of her re-entry and the full force of her descent, except instead of the heat being spread out over the entire length of a fall, it would all hit them at once.

You'd end up with the Lychguard having a feather-soft landing on a cushion of fiery death that pulverises the surface she's landing on. She'd then have to dig her way out of a pit of atomised dust, and be then standing on a planet that may have just had an extinction level event go off at her location, but the Lychguard would be fine.

Oh, and then she'd have to deal with the atmospheric effects of basically pulling a big wedge of cold down from outer space into the super-heated remains of her landing.

You're looking at something akin to the Tunguska event - the falling object is much smaller, but you've got the compression/reflection effect of the shield, as well as the fact it actually hits the ground. There's no video from Tunguska - it was in 1908 - but there are photos and eye witness accounts;

Sibir newspaper, 2 July 1908:[17]

On the 17th of June, around 9 a.m. in the morning, we observed an unusual natural occurrence. In the north Karelinski village [200 verst north of Kirensk] the peasants saw to the north west, rather high above the horizon, some strangely bright (impossible to look at) bluish-white heavenly body, which for 10 minutes moved downwards. The body appeared as a "pipe", i.e., a cylinder. The sky was cloudless, only a small dark cloud was observed in the general direction of the bright body. It was hot and dry. As the body neared the ground (forest), the bright body seemed to smudge, and then turned into a giant billow of black smoke, and a loud knocking (not thunder) was heard, as if large stones were falling, or artillery was fired. All buildings shook. At the same time the cloud began emitting flames of uncertain shapes. All villagers were stricken with panic and took to the streets, women cried, thinking it was the end of the world.

The author of these lines was meantime in the forest about 6 verst [6.4 km] north of Kirensk, and heard to the north east some kind of artillery barrage, that repeated in intervals of 15 minutes at least 10 times. In Kirensk in a few buildings in the walls facing north east window glass shook.

Testimony of S. Semenov, as recorded by Leonid Kulik's expedition in 1930:

At breakfast time I was sitting by the house at Vanavara Trading Post [65 kilometres/40 miles south of the explosion], facing north. [...] I suddenly saw that directly to the north, over Onkoul's Tunguska Road, the sky split in two and fire appeared high and wide over the forest [as Semenov showed, about 50 degrees up—expedition note]. The split in the sky grew larger, and the entire northern side was covered with fire. At that moment I became so hot that I couldn't bear it, as if my shirt was on fire; from the northern side, where the fire was, came strong heat. I wanted to tear off my shirt and throw it down, but then the sky shut closed, and a strong thump sounded, and I was thrown a few metres. I lost my senses for a moment, but then my wife ran out and led me to the house. After that such noise came, as if rocks were falling or cannons were firing, the earth shook, and when I was on the ground, I pressed my head down, fearing rocks would smash it. When the sky opened up, hot wind raced between the houses, like from cannons, which left traces in the ground like pathways, and it damaged some crops. Later we saw that many windows were shattered, and in the barn a part of the iron lock snapped.

 Melissia wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 mondo80 wrote:
Someone said a fall from 500 ft is the same as one from 20000 ft, could a space marine or tougher fall from that height, survive it and wonder "damn, what does it take to kill me?"

There comes a point where, without any other events in the fall happening, you reach terminal velocity and then it won't matter how far you fall. For a human skydiver, going "belly to earth" in free-fall, it takes about 15 seconds to reach 99% of terminal velocity (it's not a simple measure of distance, because air density changes, which affects drag, which affects reaching terminal velocity). So, in effect, the farther you fall (rather, the greater height you fall from), the slower you end up actually going (though this is a trivial distinction, in the end).

End of the day, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the abrupt stop at the bottom.

Actually, when it comes to orbital re-entry, it IS the fall that kills you.

Here's Felix Baumgartner performing a free-fall from the stratosphere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHtvDA0W34I

And? The stratosphere is not eevn the third outer layer of the atmosphere. Most meteorites burn up before they ever reach it.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Game mechanics are good indication of what s unit can or can't do.

If you're 100% certain that an IG company commander in flak armor can tank substantially more lasgun fire than a SoB in full PA, by all means. I imagine you will find many who disagree.

Beats the physic breaking SM's and other insults to decency, and I said good, perfect, there's still flaws.

Ah, so you're saying the parts you agree with are a good indicator for what is true in the fluff and not?

Yeah, no, not buying that, sorry.

Isn't that the point of 40k fluff tho? You agree with what you like and all that, otherwise you'll have to accept stuff like Gaunt killing SM's with his sword as being cannon, because what's fluffy can't be just the parts you agree with.

 Melissia wrote:
And? The stratosphere is not eevn the third outer layer of the atmosphere. Most meteorites burn up before they ever reach it.

And again, free-fall from a stationary platform very high =/= entering atmosphere at orbital speeds.

That would mean an assumption of geo-synchronous orbit, but I'm not sure that was ever mentioned.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Isn't that the point of 40k fluff tho? You agree with what you like and all that, otherwise you'll have to accept stuff like Gaunt killing SM's with his sword as being cannon

Why wouldn't I be able to accept this? Gaunt is a badass and he has a power sword. Killing a single Space Marine isn't even really a highlight of his career. Space Marines are not unkillable gods upon the battlefield, they are mere mortals. Powerful mortals, but still, mortals. A well trained human can keep up with an Astartes in the lore, and an exceptional human can keep up with exceptional Astartes.

Because you're Ashiraya and having a human beat a SM in anything except speed of death is pretty much inconcevable.

Oh good point. I stand corrected.

And there's lore to the contrary as well, so why are you talking absolutes?

Because I'm a Sith, duh.

Dammit, I was going to make that joke but I expected you to hate Star Wars.

Admittedly I am not sure why.

Because the Prequel Princess was only allowed to hold a blaster for fanservice shots and was useless?

There's many things I dislike about it, but the same could be said of ANY setting. Hell, I even find DBZ as a setting to be redeemable and have a lot of potential (I just don't think the writer made use of any of it).

That seems to be a common thread with popular shounen anime...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That seems to be a common thread with popular shounen anime...

Agreed. Popular shounen anime runs off mary sue more than good writing.

Amusingly, it spawns much better fanfic than the original show ever proves to be.

Of course, Sturgeon's Law still applies, but the remaining 10% is sometimes worth it.

Engrenages wrote:
I can't remember if it is in Halo or in 40k that power armour can be completely sealed and joint-hardened so the wearer can survive an atmospheric fall (I know it's scientifically silly).

Halo has multiple instances of Spartans surviving orbital freefall in their armor. They use a mix of kinetic energy absorbing gel, extending/shaping their energy shields, and armor lock. It is silly, but while they walk away in one or two cases, for the most part their systems are fried and they are pretty beat up requiring external assistance to get up and moving again.