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Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 20:04:53


Post by: Manchu




With the new Middle-earth Rules Manual and the Armies of The Lord of The Rings™ book gathering all the aforementioned forces and rules for easy reference, we’ll be supporting the game going forward with a series of in-depth campaign books designed to explore the most iconic moments from the series.

The first of these will be Gondor at War, covering the events of the War of the Ring as it sweeps across Gondor, from the ambush at Ithilien and the fall of Osgiliath to the Battle of Pelennor Fields and the march on the Black Gate of Mordor itself. You’ll find tactical primers, loads of scenarios and rewards for theming your army to the forces that fought in this time of war – like King Théoden’s final epic charge.

ORIGINAL post:
Spoiler:
News is trickling out of Nottingham about Adam Troke's "state of the game" presentation at Throne of Skulls. It seems like the game may be rebranded as "Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game." One attendee on Facebook posted:
Feel gutted for the people who didn't get to come to ToS and hear from Adam Troke. Fantastic stuff he had to say, not sure exactly what we are and aren't aloud to post but needless to say the hobby is safe with Adam and we are getting NEW stuff guaranteed!
Another poster has said there was mentioned of reissuing OOP models.

And from another poster:
What adam said though is he wants us to email them and tell him what we want to see come back and also what we want new.

Send in photos of our painted models and literally support our Middle Earth hobby! Without the support we have shown this hobby in recent years he literally couldn't have got the energy from GW put back in!
And again:
Middle Earth SBG. New stuff and Old stuff to be released! There's your headline from me.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 20:25:08


Post by: Sigvatr


In short: bring back the old LOTR tabletop. It was, by miles head, the best ruleset GW has ever produced. Streamlined, easy to get into, great visuals and a very balanced yet still diverse ruleset.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 20:30:49


Post by: Paradigm


Excellent news! I eagerly await more!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 20:34:23


Post by: Da Boss


Wow, that is hopeful news! It would be amazing if community support were able to keep this game alive!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 20:37:27


Post by: ImAGeek


That's cool, I always wished I'd got into LotR strategy game when it was big.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 21:19:54


Post by: Warpig1815


I've been waiting with trepidation for LotR and the Hobbit to disappear after the film hype wound down, so this sounds promising to me! The thing that put me off playing LotR as a tabletop game is that everybody wants to play as the good guys and nobody wants to play as the Orcs. It'd be helpful if they could include some sort of civil war system to permit Good vs Good combat - then I may be persuaded to get into a bit more.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 21:21:24


Post by: ImAGeek


I'd play as the bad guys! They're the coolest part. I really liked the Harad expansion they did with the tribal Haradrim guys and the half trolls.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 21:23:55


Post by: Paradigm


 Warpig1815 wrote:
I've been waiting with trepidation for LotR and the Hobbit to disappear after the film hype wound down, so this sounds promising to me! The thing that put me off playing LotR as a tabletop game is that everybody wants to play as the good guys and nobody wants to play as the Orcs. It'd be helpful if they could include some sort of civil war system to permit Good vs Good combat - then I may be persuaded to get into a bit more.


Good on Good (or Evil on Evil) matches are commonplace in practice; the early days of the game, the narrative element was very heavy, but in the last few years, points matched and more symmetrical games have become the norm. So you're just as likely to see Elves bashing Rohirrim as Orcs marauding across Gondor. At times, it does bug me a little actually, but LotR is so rare these day that anything is better than nothing!

Also, put me down as at least one person who loves playing Orcs, hordes of utterly expendable guys backed by Nazgul throwing around all kinds of magical nastiness is so much fun to use!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 21:42:42


Post by: Optio


They have a release plan up until 2020.
New stuff will be done the FW way.
There will be a new book by the end of the year and the current sourcebooks are going into printing now
We also got to find out why the Battle of five armies release was so small. New Lines barely gave them anything to work with as they changed everything half way through the production process. The result was GW staff did not find out what most of it was until the film came out. Plus side is the initial projects are to fill the gaps.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 22:10:08


Post by: Warpig1815


ImAGeek wrote:I'd play as the bad guys! They're the coolest part. I really liked the Harad expansion they did with the tribal Haradrim guys and the half trolls.


Despite always being drawn to the Rohirrim and the Twin Kingdoms, I've often thought that if I was to get into playing it, I'd paint up an Evil army (Probably Angmar) simply to keep it fluffy and to get some proper narrative battles. Not that it matters as I'll probably never get around to actually playing any wargame .

Paradigm wrote:
 Warpig1815 wrote:
I've been waiting with trepidation for LotR and the Hobbit to disappear after the film hype wound down, so this sounds promising to me! The thing that put me off playing LotR as a tabletop game is that everybody wants to play as the good guys and nobody wants to play as the Orcs. It'd be helpful if they could include some sort of civil war system to permit Good vs Good combat - then I may be persuaded to get into a bit more.


Good on Good (or Evil on Evil) matches are commonplace in practice; the early days of the game, the narrative element was very heavy, but in the last few years, points matched and more symmetrical games have become the norm. So you're just as likely to see Elves bashing Rohirrim as Orcs marauding across Gondor. At times, it does bug me a little actually, but LotR is so rare these day that anything is better than nothing!

Also, put me down as at least one person who loves playing Orcs, hordes of utterly expendable guys backed by Nazgul throwing around all kinds of magical nastiness is so much fun to use!


It's a shame because there are actually instances of Elves vs Elves, Elves vs Dwarves, Gondor vs Gondor, Rohirrim vs Dwarves, Arnor vs Gondor and Arnor vs Arnor in the books themselves - they just don't see the light of day because, as part of the Silmarillion, they didn't get fleshed out enough by Tolkien before his death. Then there's the case that the Tolkien Estate won't sell the rights for any of the First Age events so some of these events couldn't be portrayed through GW Material. It's a pity because there is a lot of scope for LotR SBG, it just needs a little fleshing out by a team who can write sympathetically with Tolkien's own work.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 22:24:06


Post by: Commander Cain


LotR was the only tabletop game that I actually enjoyed playing with rather than just painting for display. If it got a new lease of life and some more model support I would be all over it!

I had always wanted an Isengard army but the models got a massive price hike and the number of models were halved which I think was part of the appeal for the game, cheap, massed ranks of infantry.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 22:50:17


Post by: willb2064


 Optio wrote:
They have a release plan up until 2020.
New stuff will be done the FW way.
There will be a new book by the end of the year and the current sourcebooks are going into printing now
We also got to find out why the Battle of five armies release was so small. New Lines barely gave them anything to work with as they changed everything half way through the production process. The result was GW staff did not find out what most of it was until the film came out. Plus side is the initial projects are to fill the gaps.


Sounds promising, big fan of both the SBG and WOTR


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/02 23:06:58


Post by: Azreal13


Goat Dwarves?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 00:11:36


Post by: bubber


is this the 1st rules set as in 'Fellowship of the Ring' with single minis or the 2nd set which had the movement trays for units?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
+ I knew Adam before he joined GW & I don't like him (bad winner).


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 00:23:05


Post by: Gamgee


If I was to start an army It would be Uruk Hai. Not sure if I spelled that right.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 00:25:03


Post by: Nostromodamus


I loved playing Mordor/Harad back in the day. But then I play Orcs in pretty much any game system I can...


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 00:46:37


Post by: CragHack


Never really had the chance to play it as there was exactly zero interest in the whole thing here, in my country. Though, I guess, now this would be accepted more positively


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 01:58:47


Post by: godswildcard


I eagerly await how this plays out!

Between my wife's Galadrhim and my Gondor and Isenguard, I'd easily be interested in picking up Arnor, Rohan and Angmar to add to our collection!

Such a fun game.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 03:14:55


Post by: Davor


 Optio wrote:
They have a release plan up until 2020.
New stuff will be done the FW way.
There will be a new book by the end of the year and the current sourcebooks are going into printing now
We also got to find out why the Battle of five armies release was so small. New Lines barely gave them anything to work with as they changed everything half way through the production process. The result was GW staff did not find out what most of it was until the film came out. Plus side is the initial projects are to fill the gaps.


This is great, well sort of. I mean great it will be up to 2020. Sad it will be FW way. Does that mean FW way is only by mail only?

I just wish GW would have been upfront about LotR. I never got into it fearing it would end and be gutted so for over 10 years thinking it was the last and wasn't I haven't bought anything. This is where talking to your customers would have been great, I would have bought so much and invested into LotR. Not know, it was an investment I didn't want to make.

Knowing we have 4 yeas, maybe I will finally start now.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 06:16:26


Post by: ImAGeek


We already knew that the Middle Earth stuff was under FW now' FW has three sections now, HH and 40k and AoS, Specialist Games, and Middle Earth. But it doesn't preclude them doing plastic kits through GW (Betrayal at Calth was the first 'Specialist Games' project from what I remember from whatever FW event this info was from).


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 08:44:32


Post by: Goatmoerser


Really great news! The Hobbit is pretty popular here in my area for a game that was said to be dead soon. A tournament with 100 players was booked out in about a week.
https://www.tabletopturniere.de/t3_tournament.php?tid=16406


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 08:49:15


Post by: Silent Puffin?


 Sigvatr wrote:
It was, by miles head, the best ruleset GW has ever produced.


Debatable. I hate the game.

This isn't unexpected given the slightly more sensible course that GW have been plotting recently.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 08:49:36


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


Who said it was dead?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 09:03:40


Post by: Manchu


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Who said it was dead?
Lots of people figured it was headed that way.

More from Facebook:
Sourcebooks are being re-printed in three weeks
New Sourcebook (Most likely BoFA) is being released by the end of the Calendar year
Out of Production models will be released again in Forgeworld Resin
Due to the cost of Forgeworld resin, terrain kits will no longer be sold and instead replaced with battle boards (possibly)
Dain (Not on Pig) was shown and apparently looks better than anything we have ever seen. No pictures were taken to show us.
Adam Troke has is guaranteed to work on Middle Earth SBG for Four Years!! That is Four more years of models released
No mention of a new rulebook but there not be an Age of Sigmar type deal. My guess is that it will be Weapons Rules and Monster rules that will get tweaked. Game is said to largely stay the same.
New Game will be called Middle Earth SBG
The New game will start to go into the Lord of the Rings Appendices and Hobbit Appendices for material after the BoFA is done


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 09:31:46


Post by: RazorEdge


I guess we will see a new Starter Set too?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 11:05:36


Post by: Scrub


As somebody that missed out on the original release of the game, the hype and brilliant looking minis that followed. Well... I'll be all over this if it's reasonably priced. I'm quite envious of the model value from what I've read about the initial launch of LOTR.

GW proper and Forgeworld are expensive enough hobbies to be a part of in terms of miniature gaming, hearing that the re-releases will be Forgeworld resin doesn't fill me with hope. I'd pick up the fellowship for painting, regardless but I'll not be buying armies if the usual Forgeworld tax applies.

Exciting news though, GW continues to surprise (in a nice way these days!) and impress with it's latest direction.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 11:19:43


Post by: Paradigm


That is the less encouraging part, it has to be said. LotR was up until a few years ago very cheap to get into even at full RRP, if it's all FW all the time then that'll go even more out the window than it already is. I do wonder if the plastics will see a price reduction back to civilised levels, though (or rather, a reboxing with more minis but only a middling price increase, like some of the AoS repacks). I doubt we'll see anything close to the £15-24 models glory days, but if we get even a little reduction in overall cost then that would offset the more extensive stuff and make the game much more accessible. Heck, I'd take a couple of Start Collecting sets that bundled a few sprues and some discount!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 11:50:28


Post by: Sidstyler


Yeah, they really need to go back to what made the game so popular in the first place and give you tons of plastic minis at sane prices, like those bundles. FW producing the models doesn't bode well, though.

If it's going to have the same "premium" pricing it had during the Hobbit years they might as well not bother, honestly.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 12:10:40


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


I don't mind FW resin and pricing for characters and special stuff, I don't think FW resin was more expensive than finecast anyway, was it? Certainly not in Australia

What they need to do is release some of the BoFA stuff in plastic and not charge stupidly high prices for it like they did for the first 2 movies. $40 for 10 models was a higher price than Middle-earth fans were willing to bear.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 12:16:31


Post by: AegisGrimm


Even without miniatures being greenlit by New Line, GW should have just re-released The Battle of the Five Armies. I missed that the first time around, and wish I hadn't.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:19:19


Post by: Korinov


 Scrub wrote:
As somebody that missed out on the original release of the game, the hype and brilliant looking minis that followed. Well... I'll be all over this if it's reasonably priced. I'm quite envious of the model value from what I've read about the initial launch of LOTR.

GW proper and Forgeworld are expensive enough hobbies to be a part of in terms of miniature gaming, hearing that the re-releases will be Forgeworld resin doesn't fill me with hope. I'd pick up the fellowship for painting, regardless but I'll not be buying armies if the usual Forgeworld tax applies.


This is the key here. If they manage to revamp the game as something reasonably priced, then I'm sure it will be a great (or at least moderate) success.

However if they keep the same pricing tactics that brought The Hobbit to its current comatose state... it won't.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:25:41


Post by: Da Boss


That is true. I think the most we can hope for is some decent Start Collecting sets and bundles. But that would be a hell of a lot better than nothing!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:34:45


Post by: methebest


Can't wait to be able to the source books i need.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:35:18


Post by: Da Boss


Yeah, actually, that's something I will pick up straight away. Was kicking myself for not getting them when they were available.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:35:40


Post by: Slinky


And maybe a re-branding away from the generally not-well-received Hobbit films to "Middle Earth" and more focus on the LOTR end of things would help rekindle interest too.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:39:15


Post by: angelofvengeance


 Slinky wrote:
And maybe a re-branding away from the generally not-well-received Hobbit films to "Middle Earth" and more focus on the LOTR end of things would help rekindle interest too.


Yeah, The Hobbit is OK, but LOTR and the events pre-Hobbit are more interesting.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:45:46


Post by: notprop


A move away from the Hobbit pricing might be a better idea!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:47:06


Post by: angelofvengeance


 notprop wrote:
A move away from the Hobbit pricing might be a better idea!


That too. Absurdly overpriced models. More so than AoS and 40k which says a lot.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 13:50:50


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


The New game will start to go into the Lord of the Rings Appendices and Hobbit Appendices for material after the BoFA is done


I've been waiting for this for SO LONG. Got my fingers crossed for a more in depth ruin of Arnor supplement focusing on the fall of the ancient Kingdom of Arthedain and the war against Angmar, vs the present day Rangers of the North. Some new options for Arnor would be nice - light cavalry similar to Knights of Minas Tirth (something like the image below), Royal Guards of Arnor, militia etc.

Spoiler:


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 14:18:32


Post by: RazorEdge


Please new Plastic kits...


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 14:38:50


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Two questions as I had always wanted to get into LotR, but it had vanished before I was much of a hobbyist...

1. What is the model count of the game, generally? I know the individual unit incarnation of the game appealed to me, but I guess it was concurrently a larger scale/movement-tray based game?

2. Are there any ways get a copy of the rules digitally? I'd love to read up on how the game actually plays, but I am sure it predates GW selling digital rule-books. Problem is, as a disabled gamer, digital books just make my life much, much easier.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 14:43:56


Post by: Paradigm


To answer the first question, it actually scales really well; you can play a small skirmish with a dozen models per side and it'll be just as fun as a sprawling battle with 80+ models under each player, without needing to get into the alternate unit-based War of the Ring rules (for the really, really big battles, 100+ models minimum!). Generally, 500-750 points a side is played, which is typically between 30 and 60 models depending on the army.

Sadly, the rules can't be had digitally for some reason, maybe they will finally sort that to coincide with the reprints.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 14:48:52


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Model count varies wildly. An average list in an average size game of 600pts or so might be around 30 models. Another list might include all monsters or heroes with as few as 2 or 3 models. And some lists might be a horde army (Goblin Town) with 50 to 100 models.

All are viable and fun. All hero or all monster lists are challenging to play but very powerful in the hands of players who know what they're doing.

You really can do whatever you like.

As for digital rules, no they're not available digitally so far as I know, but there are rumours and a leaked announcement from throne of skulls suggesting that the books will soon be rereleased in print format and in digital format for the first time in the near future.

In the meantime, PDF torrents are easy enough to find on the internet and only TFG rules lawyers will protest about it, the average player in a friendly gaming context will accept it. You can't play the game without the books and if the books are no longer on sale you can't get them. I'd rather play with a player who downloaded some illegal torrent PDFs than have no opponents whatsoever.

Just don't take a printed out PDF into a gw store, that would be taking the mick and pushing your luck.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 14:51:16


Post by: Commodus Leitdorf


Man this is awesome! Especially if they plan on re-releasing older OOP models again. I really would like to get Gildor Inglorion without breaking the damn bank.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 15:24:10


Post by: Momotaro


Good to see some life in the old dog yet!

I got out of formally supporting the game when the prices doubled at the start of 2012 - in hindsight possibly a mistake, as the last round of army books seem to have been balanced especially well. The army book prices still don't sit well with me though, and I'm torn whether to buy them on re-release. I have picked up some of the Hobbit range and the book on eBay. They really are lovely models, but again, too expensive to justify building an army to myself.

I don't think we're going to see massive price reductions, although I'm always open to pleasant surprises (and the Start Collecting bundles were certainly that). Inspired by someone on the internet, I made a huge Gondor +Fiefdoms force out of 2 boxes of Conquest plastic Normans, complete with cavalry, for about £40 a couple of years back, and I increasingly look to modifying historical plastics when I feel like expanding my forces. Dwarf Battle Goats would do it for me though, I have to say - purism be damned this one time

Happy with the core rules as they are - the Hobbit rulebook clarifies and defines everything nicely but the additional rules for different weapons and monster attacks add little for me. I'd actually far rather see the game take some new and interesting directions - campaign rules have always been top of the list for me. Maybe some structured rules for your own "Fellowship" of adventurers, bringing the game on from Battle Companies. We've toyed with doing a Vale of Anduin or or East of Mirkwood campaign based on the Dux Britanniarum game - space for Northmen tribes, invaders from the East, Gondorian outposts, orcs, dwarves, elves and even Hobbits.

What excites me the most is an exploration of the source material in the appendices - they "done good" with Harad, although I always felt the Arnor supplement was a bit thin. There's a LOT left to explore in Middle-Earth, and plenty of times when the setting looks very different. The Kin-strife, Gondor's wars in the East, an extended take on the fall of Arnor and the three Kingdoms. If they're part of the liecence, the wars of Numenor and Sauron's war on the Elves during the Second Age too. The old MERP RPG was set in TA 1640, just after the Great Plague - a setting subtly different but just as empty as the late Third Age.

Good times anyway!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 16:28:18


Post by: Mymearan


Very good news for me as someone who just got a ton of boxes on clearance


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 16:42:23


Post by: daemonish


I think it would be foolish if they re-do this line they don't re-release the mines of moria set. I personall think it was far better than escape from goblin town, models and ajccessory wise.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 17:05:32


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Model count varies wildly. An average list in an average size game of 600pts or so might be around 30 models. Another list might include all monsters or heroes with as few as 2 or 3 models. And some lists might be a horde army (Goblin Town) with 50 to 100 models.

All are viable and fun. All hero or all monster lists are challenging to play but very powerful in the hands of players who know what they're doing.

You really can do whatever you like.

As for digital rules, no they're not available digitally so far as I know, but there are rumours and a leaked announcement from throne of skulls suggesting that the books will soon be rereleased in print format and in digital format for the first time in the near future.

In the meantime, PDF torrents are easy enough to find on the internet and only TFG rules lawyers will protest about it, the average player in a friendly gaming context will accept it. You can't play the game without the books and if the books are no longer on sale you can't get them. I'd rather play with a player who downloaded some illegal torrent PDFs than have no opponents whatsoever.

Just don't take a printed out PDF into a gw store, that would be taking the mick and pushing your luck.


Thanks for the info. A cursory look hasn't yielded anything for me, but I did just Ebay a physical rulebook of the "One Book to Rule them All" edition people seem to like. I just wish I could find a pdf because physical hardcovers are difficult for me.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 17:22:26


Post by: Ashiraya


Oof. My Uruk army has been dead for many years and restarting it is not really on the table.

I hope this is good though, for nostalgia if nothing else.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 17:23:06


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Edit: By the way, and I wrong in thinking this 2005 book is the best of the "rule-books" to own? I see on wikis people praise it, but now I hear the Hobbit big book is actually a more up to date core rulebook?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 17:28:10


Post by: Paradigm


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Edit: By the way, and I wrong in thinking this 2005 book is the best of the "rule-books" to own? I see on wikis people praise it, but now I hear the Hobbit big book is actually a more up to date core rulebook?


I still swear by the 2005 big book for newcomers to the game. It can be had very cheaply, it has what I think are the best edition of the core rules (most of the later changes made in the Hobbit big book I'm not a huge fan of) and crucially, has functional army lists with points and profiles for pretty much every army out there, at least in some capacity. There are a couple dozen profiles that came out between that and the 5 current Sourcebooks, but if you're looking to get started with the game, won't be playing pick-up games with strangers and want to get a feel for how the various armies play, you really can't go wrong.

You'll obviously want the Hobbit book (I suggest the mini book from the Goblin Town set) if you want to do anything 'official', but since that's lacking in profiles (only the stuff from the first Hobbit movie is in there) I think it is much less useful for a beginner.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 17:30:24


Post by: Da Boss


To me, the One Ring rulebook you're talking about is the best. But I never switched to the Hobbit which I don't really see as an improvement to the system so YMMV.

Since the One Ring book is out of print, is PDFing it okay? Because you can find pdfs of a lot of these books (of varying quality) on Scribd.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 17:39:38


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Paradigm wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Edit: By the way, and I wrong in thinking this 2005 book is the best of the "rule-books" to own? I see on wikis people praise it, but now I hear the Hobbit big book is actually a more up to date core rulebook?


I still swear by the 2005 big book for newcomers to the game. It can be had very cheaply, it has what I think are the best edition of the core rules (most of the later changes made in the Hobbit big book I'm not a huge fan of) and crucially, has functional army lists with points and profiles for pretty much every army out there, at least in some capacity. There are a couple dozen profiles that came out between that and the 5 current Sourcebooks, but if you're looking to get started with the game, won't be playing pick-up games with strangers and want to get a feel for how the various armies play, you really can't go wrong.

You'll obviously want the Hobbit book (I suggest the mini book from the Goblin Town set) if you want to do anything 'official', but since that's lacking in profiles (only the stuff from the first Hobbit movie is in there) I think it is much less useful for a beginner.


God help me... I just remembered that the wife bought me the Goblin Town set when it released, that first Christmas... and I never even opened it. I have it right here next to me... sealed... the the preorder exclusive Radagast. :-p

@Da Boss: I'm pretty sure that isn't something we can discuss here. :-)

So, as a general question... if i'm Ebaying up books for the moment... what books ended up having new profiles, etc? I see sooooo many books, some of which seem faction specific, others more general. There are an overwhelming number of books for this game, and if you're unfamiliar with it, it is intimidating.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 17:39:59


Post by: Ashiraya


I never understood why GW jumped on the Hobbit. It feels absurd to base a strategic wargame on a happy adventure story (with the exception of the last movie).


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 18:01:39


Post by: RazorEdge


They believed Hobbit would be the same bestseller like Lotr while the Movie Hype.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 18:04:11


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


RazorEdge wrote:
They believed Hobbit would be the same beststeller like Lotr while the Movie Hype.


And simultaneously thought they would get the same returns without putting in the same amount of effort as they did for LOTR.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 18:09:27


Post by: Psychopomp



I'm of mixed feelings.

For one thing, I love this game. I've got a substantial Gondor army painted up, and a lead/plastic pile of orcs waiting for a reason. This is probably my favorite Games Workshop ruleset since Epic or Warhammer Quest.

But on the other hand, they already priced me out of it when they cut the number of sprues in the plastic boxes in half, dropped the price by less than half, then raised the prices back to the original RRP in just 3-4 years. I somehow doubt this revitalization will bring the prices back down to the sane levels pre-2008 or 2009, whenever that happened.

Liked I said, mixed feelings. I imagine some really neat stuff will come out over the next four years, but I also doubt it will be priced competitively with the other mini games I'm into right now.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 18:44:59


Post by: Paradigm


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


So, as a general question... if i'm Ebaying up books for the moment... what books ended up having new profiles, etc? I see sooooo many books, some of which seem faction specific, others more general. There are an overwhelming number of books for this game, and if you're unfamiliar with it, it is intimidating.


To be 'current', you want:

The Hobbit rulebook, mini or full versions (you won't need that if you have EfGT)
The Free Peoples (army lists for Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Fellowship, Ents, Eagles)
Mordor (army list for... well, Mordor)
The Fallen Realms (Harad, Khand, Easterlings. Isengard)
Moria and Angmar (take a guess at which two factions that covers!)
The Kingdoms of Men (Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Fiefdoms)

Also worth getting if you see them cheap are the Fellowship, Towers and Return Journey Books, if you want a bunch of cool scenarios based on the books/films, and the blue book mentioned before.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 18:52:07


Post by: Momotaro


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

God help me... I just remembered that the wife bought me the Goblin Town set when it released, that first Christmas... and I never even opened it. I have it right here next to me... sealed... the the preorder exclusive Radagast. :-p


I picked up 5 sets of goblins for £20 on eBay a few years back. They are lovely models - detailed, characterful and hardly a mouldline on them. Great for post-apoc mutants, and I plan to use the last sprue as Ghar Outcasts for Gates of Antares. It's just sad that they're a terrible design for high fantasy goblins - not GW's fault in this case.

So, as a general question... if i'm Ebaying up books for the moment... what books ended up having new profiles, etc? I see sooooo many books, some of which seem faction specific, others more general. There are an overwhelming number of books for this game, and if you're unfamiliar with it, it is intimidating.


The current army books, all OOP:

Fallen Realms (Isengard, Harad, Easterlings)
Moria and Angmar
Free Peoples (Dwarfs, Rivendell, Lorien/Mirkwood, Shire, Eagles and Ents)
Kingdoms of Men (Gondor, Rohirrim, Fiefdoms, Arnor, Numenor)
Mordor

These have the same set of standard scenarios and "warband" army builder (you must have 1 hero for every 12 troops). They all have similar blue covers. Edit: yeah, what Paradigm said!

Hobbit army books

An Unexpected Journey stats are still on the Black Library FAQ page under "Heroes and Villains of Middle-Earth"
The Desolation of Smaug sourcebook is OOP
The Battle of the Five Armies sourcebook was web-only, just say if you want a copy


Older Sourcebooks There are older sourcebooks that have a photo of minis taking up the full cover, and different coloured spines. They have a range of themed scenarios that may be of interest to you whether you want the statlines or not. They fall into 2 groups:

Superceded completely Siege of Gondor, Pelennor Fields, Shadow and Flame and The Scouring of the Shire are completely superceded by the Big Blue/One Ring Rulebook for stats and siege rules. Unless you have a really old rulebook with a movie title, I wouldn't bother too much with them, although the scenarios in Shadow and Flame (the failure of Balin's Moria expedition) and The Scouring of the Shire (some nice small-scale scenarios from Hobbit history) are decent

Superceded but newer than the Hardback rulebook Everything after the Big Blue/One Ring rulebook has an expanded army list, as well as a bunch of themed scenarios. The stats are not as tight as the current blue army books, but there's some decent scenario material in there and they may be a cheap alternative. Edit: just seen the prices on eBay - "cheap" may not exactly be right...

Legions of Middle Earth - just army lists and some standard scenarios, not many actual stats.

A Shadow in the East (Easterlings and some Rohan profiles)
Harad
Gondor in Flames (Gondor, Fiefdoms)
Mordor
Ruin of Armor (Arnor, Eriador and Angmar)
Khazad Dum (Dwarfs and Goblins)
Fall of the Necromancer (Wood Elves, White Council, Dol Guldur). The scenarios in here are often very small scale - a couple of characters against waves of attackers in one, IIRC - and show a different side of the game.

There are also three journeybooks, named after the films - of the three, Two Towers is most interesting as it expands the Isengard list.

Apologies for any errors - all from my aged memory!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 19:03:36


Post by: ZergSmasher


This is actually very exciting news, except for one thing: even when LotR was popular and going strong in most places, there never was a community for it in my area. I don't know anyone else around here who has any of the minis, and even mine are mostly sitting unassembled and unpainted in boxes. I have the Mines of Moria set (completely painted, but horribly so!), and its included rulebook, as well as the Fellowship journey book and the Free Peoples army book. Miniatures wise I've got some Dwarves, some Elves, some Gondor (including Faramir and Denethor), a few additional Moria goblins and a cave troll beyond the ones that came in Mines of Moria, some Mordor Orcs, and a couple of sets of Easterlings. I also have a few Nazgul.

One thing that hurt my collection was the switch to taking a leader for every unit of basic troops. I don't have near enough leaders in my collection.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 20:03:23


Post by: Ghaz


Momotaro wrote:
The current army books, all OOP:

Fallen Realms (Isengard, Harad, Easterlings)
Moria and Angmar
Free Peoples (Dwarfs, Rivendell, Lorien/Mirkwood, Shire, Eagles and Ents)
Kingdoms of Men (Gondor, Rohirrim, Fiefdoms, Arnor, Numenor)
Mordor

Both the Mordor and the Moria & Angmar books show as available on the UK site.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 20:38:44


Post by: alphaecho


 ZergSmasher wrote:
This is actually very exciting news, except for one thing: even when LotR was popular and going strong in most places, there never was a community for it in my area. I don't know anyone else around here who has any of the minis, and even mine are mostly sitting unassembled and unpainted in boxes. I have the Mines of Moria set (completely painted, but horribly so!), and its included rulebook, as well as the Fellowship journey book and the Free Peoples army book. Miniatures wise I've got some Dwarves, some Elves, some Gondor (including Faramir and Denethor), a few additional Moria goblins and a cave troll beyond the ones that came in Mines of Moria, some Mordor Orcs, and a couple of sets of Easterlings. I also have a few Nazgul.

One thing that hurt my collection was the switch to taking a leader for every unit of basic troops. I don't have near enough leaders in my collection.


One of the hintsin the Battle Games in Middle Earth magazine series was too paint a basic troop model slightly differently, for example, adding a gold trim to a cloak or helmet to indicate increased status. Job done.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/03 21:10:58


Post by: Mymearan


Yeah as for books, the current books aren't actually confusing, there is only the Hobbit rule book, the five source (army) books, and the three little update books with new stuff from the three Hobbit movies. All you really need is the rule book and the source book for your army. I see some people here saying they like the old blue rule book better but I've heard a lot of people say the Hobbit adds some much-needed changes (for example making Monsters more useful), and it's also the one people are mostay playing nowadays afaik. Your mileage may vary! Even if you use the blue book, you should still definitely get the source book for your army since the lists in the blue book are very incomplete and not up to date.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 10:52:09


Post by: Momotaro


 Ghaz wrote:

Both the Mordor and the Moria & Angmar books show as available on the UK site.


Well spotted - thanks for that.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 14:08:52


Post by: Manchu


Mordor is also in stock on the US page. But in any case, looks like they will all be back in print in May-June.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 15:43:49


Post by: Optio


Moria and Agmar, Mordor and Desolation of Smaug are still available in UK.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 15:44:17


Post by: Azreal13


I'm weirdly excited for this, as I've never played it nor hitherto been that curious about it other than one or two models (Mumak, Fellbeast) to paint.

For someone who wasn't war gaming while it was popular the first time, can anyone summarize how it plays, or point me towards an article or similar that does?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 16:05:52


Post by: Paradigm


 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm weirdly excited for this, as I've never played it nor hitherto been that curious about it other than one or two models (Mumak, Fellbeast) to paint.

For someone who wasn't war gaming while it was popular the first time, can anyone summarize how it plays, or point me towards an article or similar that does?


Very quick version:

- It's a skirmish game, in that every model acts individually, but the rules can comfortably handle 60+ minis a side without bogging down.

- The setting aside, the USP of the game is how it handles heroes, both named and otherwise. Even combat beasts like Boromir or Gothmog act as force multipliers both passively (nearby troops can use their Courage for tests) and actively (there are an array of Heroic Actions that Heroes can use that affect nearby troops by spending Might points, which are limited). I can't really think of any similar mechanics in other 'big' games.

- Unlike, say, 40k, most of your troops are pretty standardised, the only real 'loadout' choices you get are adding spears/bows/shields, there are very

- The game plays very smoothly, usually you're rolling only 2 or 3 dice at once, and the core rules are really rather simple.

Basically, it's a great game! A good place to start research is the Great British Hobbit League (GBHL) on Youtube, they do some very good batreps and are basically responsible for keeping the game alive when GW couldn't be bothered.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 16:18:40


Post by: Azreal13


Excellent, thanks. Simple and smooth are things I'm a fan of in games!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 16:23:44


Post by: Ketara


 Azreal13 wrote:
Excellent, thanks. Simple and smooth are things I'm a fan of in games!


LOTR is widely regarded as the tightest ruleset GW ever wrote. Not a huge amount of cheese or obvious 'must buy' units, battle weapons and tactics (excluding monsters and magic) are roughly similar to real life equivalents, and the game is as big or as small as you like with no real issues. It becomes a bit clunky/time consuming at 100+ models per side, but anything smaller, and it's fine.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 16:36:43


Post by: Da Boss


It's tight, fast playing and intuitive. Alternating activation leads to a great "cat and mouse" feel at times.

Complex tactics arise from a simple base of rules, and positioning arises naturally from the rules base in a satisfying way. You make a shieldwall because it just makes sense to do so, and you put your spears in the second rank. But it's flexible so that if you want one soldier to break away and heroically hold off a monster, he can.

The heroic aspect is handled extremely well through the expenable resources of Might, Fate and Will. Might is proactive, allowing you to boost your rolls or call special "out of sequence" actions with nearby troops, mounting a heroic counter charge and so on. Fate and Will are more passive, but Will allows for the use of and resistance to magic, whereas Fate points are expended to keep your heroes alive longer.

Monsters and magic feature but do not dominate overmuch.

I love the game, and am super excited to see it coming back. I hope it catches on as the main GW "fantasy" game.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 16:54:48


Post by: mdauben


 bubber wrote:
is this the 1st rules set as in 'Fellowship of the Ring' with single minis or the 2nd set which had the movement trays for units?.

The original game was the "Strategy Battle Game" which is what the old "One Ring" and the current "The Hobbit" hardcover rulebooks are for. These are also the rules that almost all the supplements are for. From all the rumors and official announcements, this is the game that is being supported by FW.

The game that used the movement trays was the "War of the Rings" game, which never really caught on. AFAIK, there was only ever one WotR supplement published by GW titled "War of the Rings: Battlehosts"


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:02:07


Post by: Manchu


More from Facebook:
More News from more sources!!:
1) A Box Game like the Horus Heresy WILL NOT happen for Lord of the Rings
2) A New starter set will come out for Middle Earth SBG
3) A New Hardback rule book will come out
4) Osgiliath Ruins are coming back. The Laketown Buildings are not
4) New models will come in boxes, not blisters of 3


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:03:56


Post by: Paradigm


Oooh, new starter! Fingers crossed for a BotFA set with some plastic Iron Hills Dwarves, Mirkwood Elves and Gundabad Orcs! In which case, put me down for one at least!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:05:42


Post by: ImAGeek


Yeah I could go for that too haha. Maybe with a big Troll or something too.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:08:44


Post by: Manchu


 Paradigm wrote:
plastic ... Gundabad Orcs!
DOL GULDUR ORCS

... ahem ... I would also love to see the Gundabad Orcs in plastic, as I am sure they were meant to be.

I would love to see a Bo5A starter set - what a missed opportunity this was ! Thanks a lot, New Line ! Well, here's the chance to make amends.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:11:56


Post by: ImAGeek


I really like the armour design of the Gundabad orcs in the film so a plastic kit would be awesome.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:16:10


Post by: Robin5t


Count me in as excited.

This game, when it first began, is literally what got me into Games Workshop and tabletop modelling in general. Specifically, the magazine - can anyone else remember the magazine? Battle Games in Middle Earth? It was amazing. Easily the best promotional material GW ever produced - and that's not even just because of the great amount of models you got as part of the deal, either!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:36:38


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Models coming in "boxes of 3" as rumored, scares me. :-p Having just picked up some 40k Ogryns for conversions for "This is Not a Test", I feel gross spending $40 for three models... and those are on 40mm bases with loads of bits.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:37:46


Post by: ImAGeek


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Models coming in "boxes of 3" as rumored, scares me. :-p Having just picked up some 40k Ogryns for conversions for "This is Not a Test", I feel gross spending $40 for three models... and those are on 40mm bases with loads of bits.



Might wanna reread it, it says models are coming in boxes now, not in blisters of three as they were during the hobbit releases.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:39:58


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 ImAGeek wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Models coming in "boxes of 3" as rumored, scares me. :-p Having just picked up some 40k Ogryns for conversions for "This is Not a Test", I feel gross spending $40 for three models... and those are on 40mm bases with loads of bits.



Might wanna reread it, it says models are coming in boxes now, not in blisters of three as they were during the hobbit releases.


LOL... you are correct sir. I read it as there being an extra comma before, "of three". :-p


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:41:01


Post by: Ghaz


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Models coming in "boxes of 3" as rumored, scares me. :-p Having just picked up some 40k Ogryns for conversions for "This is Not a Test", I feel gross spending $40 for three models... and those are on 40mm bases with loads of bits.


You've misread what was written. The models will now come in boxes (with no number of models in the box specified) instead of blisters of three models.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 17:44:53


Post by: Paradigm


Manchu wrote:
 Paradigm wrote:
plastic ... Gundabad Orcs!
DOL GULDUR ORCS

... ahem ... I would also love to see the Gundabad Orcs in plastic, as I am sure they were meant to be.

I would love to see a Bo5A starter set - what a missed opportunity this was ! Thanks a lot, New Line ! Well, here's the chance to make amends.


To be fair, the films do use the names Moria, Gundabad and Dol Guldur Orcs pretty much interchangeably. Azog is described in AUJ as a Gundabad Orc, who then leads an army of Moria Orcs (Gandalf in BotFA) from Dol Guldur, while Bolg leads actual Gundabad Orcs from Gundabad... Confused? Me too!

Robin5t wrote:Count me in as excited.

This game, when it first began, is literally what got me into Games Workshop and tabletop modelling in general. Specifically, the magazine - can anyone else remember the magazine? Battle Games in Middle Earth? It was amazing. Easily the best promotional material GW ever produced - and that's not even just because of the great amount of models you got as part of the deal, either!

Yeah, same for me, my first (and for a long time only) wargaming experience, excellent value and a top quality product.

ImAGeek wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Models coming in "boxes of 3" as rumored, scares me. :-p Having just picked up some 40k Ogryns for conversions for "This is Not a Test", I feel gross spending $40 for three models... and those are on 40mm bases with loads of bits.



Might wanna reread it, it says models are coming in boxes now, not in blisters of three as they were during the hobbit releases.



Yeah, hopefully it'll be something of a reduction in price. If I can get 10 Gundabad Orcs or Mirkwood Elves, even in Finecast, for abour £30, that's a hell of a lot better than 3 for £15!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 18:08:35


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


So, since I am "new" to the game... when purchasing something like a box of those aforementioned Mirkwood Elves, would the boxes/blisters come with bits to WYSIWYG them (IE, put bows on a couple, swords on others, etc...) or was this game less concerned with specific modeling?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 18:11:02


Post by: Warpig1815


 Paradigm wrote:
Manchu wrote:
 Paradigm wrote:
plastic ... Gundabad Orcs!
DOL GULDUR ORCS

... ahem ... I would also love to see the Gundabad Orcs in plastic, as I am sure they were meant to be.

I would love to see a Bo5A starter set - what a missed opportunity this was ! Thanks a lot, New Line ! Well, here's the chance to make amends.


To be fair, the films do use the names Moria, Gundabad and Dol Guldur Orcs pretty much interchangeably. Azog is described in AUJ as a Gundabad Orc, who then leads an army of Moria Orcs (Gandalf in BotFA) from Dol Guldur, while Bolg leads actual Gundabad Orcs from Gundabad... Confused? Me too!


The films vary quite a bit from the original books, so you can take anything they say with a hefty pinch of salt. Pretty much though, Gundabad Orcs come from the Arnor/Angmar area to the north of Mirkwood and East of Eregion/Arnor/Shire region and Northwest of the Lonely Mountain. Moria is sort of slap bang in the middle of the Misty Mountains which themselves are west of Mirkwood. Moria is far to the South-West of the Lonely Mountain. Finally, Dol Guldur is in the Southern tip of Mirkwood, South of the Lonely Mountain. The Orcs that fought at the Battle of the Five Armies mustered at Gundabad and it's most likely that they largely dwelt there. Dol Guldur on the other hand didn't play too large a part until the latter stages of the War of the Ring when they assailed Lothlorien. It's also worth noting that in the book The Hobbit, Azog is in fact the Great Goblin and was beheaded by Gandalf. It's Bolg who then leads the Orcs at the Bot5A.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 18:48:40


Post by: Manchu


My comment was meant to distinguish between helmet designs in the movies (rather than anything about proper Middle-earth lore) - I'd like to see the fin-type helmets from the last film in addition to the crested-type ones currently available
(albeit, in Finecast).


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 18:49:39


Post by: Imateria


Really looking forward to this. Never had the chance to get into the game before, I just really hope there's a reprint or something of the Free Peoples sourcebook, I really want to build up an Elven amy around Gil-Galad as it's as close as I'm going to get to a First Age army.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 18:52:06


Post by: Manchu


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, since I am "new" to the game... when purchasing something like a box of those aforementioned Mirkwood Elves, would the boxes/blisters come with bits to WYSIWYG them (IE, put bows on a couple, swords on others, etc...) or was this game less concerned with specific modeling?
This is definitely a WYSIWYG game. For example, there is a general bow limit - only 33% of your Warriors can be armed with bows/crossbows per allied contingent (some lists have exceptions to the limit). It is very important to know which kind of weapon a model is wielding in this game as there are weapon-specific special attacks. Even though (nearly) every model is considered to be armed with a handweapon (e.g., even if that archer only looks like he has a bow), if the weapon is not visible on the model then the model cannot execute the special attack. Boxes come with a pretty fair assortment of shield, spear, bow, etc.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 18:59:03


Post by: Warpig1815


 Manchu wrote:
My comment was meant to distinguish between helmet designs in the movies (rather than anything about proper Middle-earth lore) - I'd like to see the fin-type helmets from the last film in addition to the crested-type ones currently available
(albeit, in Finecast).


You mean the Isenguard Uruk Hai? They've got to be one of the nicest looking sculpts GW came out with (Obviously based on the films).

It would be nice if they were to release the kits with a variety of weapon options. For example, the Warriors of Minas Tirith set includes 4 Swordsmen, 4 Spearmen and 4 Bowmen. It would be better, IMHO, if you could opt to assemble 12 of each weapon type. Similarly, the Warriors of the Last Alliance set grouped Galdhrim with Men of Numenor - forcing you to buy the whole set then promptly discard/sell half the set if you only wanted to to collect one of those armies.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:00:47


Post by: Paradigm


 Manchu wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, since I am "new" to the game... when purchasing something like a box of those aforementioned Mirkwood Elves, would the boxes/blisters come with bits to WYSIWYG them (IE, put bows on a couple, swords on others, etc...) or was this game less concerned with specific modeling?
This is definitely a WYSIWYG game. For example, there is a general bow limit - only 33% of your Warriors can be armed with bows/crossbows per allied contingent (some lists have exceptions to the limit). It is very important to know which kind of weapon a model is wielding in this game as there are weapon-specific special attacks. Even though (nearly) every model is considered to be armed with a handweapon (e.g., even if that archer only looks like he has a bow), if the weapon is not visible on the model then the model cannot execute the special attack. Boxes come with a pretty fair assortment of shield, spear, bow, etc.


It's worth noting that pretty much every model, both the Finecast and plastic ones, are single-pose, mostly single-piece minis. So it's not so much a case of 'putting' a bow or spear on a model as it is buying a model with a bow or spear.

Most plastic box sets are split 4/4/4 hand weapon/bow/spear, the exceptions being Uruks (5 pike, 5 shield), Easterlings (4 sword, 4 box, 2 pike), and some of the Hobbit sets. Finecast and metal minis tend to come in 3s or 4s with the same weapon.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:03:06


Post by: Manchu


 Warpig1815 wrote:
You mean the Isenguard Uruk Hai?
Nope, I mean these guys:
Spoiler:


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:15:56


Post by: Warpig1815


O.o I'd forgotten about those - which film were they from again? They look vaguely familiar, but I can't place them...

If GW were to release them, I'd be forced to start an Evil army


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:17:56


Post by: ImAGeek


They're the Gundabad Orcs from the Battle of the 5 Armies. They did do models for them, but only like 6 in total and they were very expensive.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:29:06


Post by: Warpig1815


That's probably why I don't recall them. I've only seen Bot5A the once. Even so, the Gundabad Orcs GW currently sell look nothing like their film counterparts.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:31:47


Post by: ImAGeek


They look like some of them in the film, they're pretty ragtag.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:43:59


Post by: Warpig1815


Ahh, perhaps I should rephrase that - The helmets (Which is what Manchu was originally referring to) look little like those in the film - for the most part, the GW sculpts seem to have more exaggerated crests. They're still pretty nice though.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 19:47:29


Post by: Ghaz


The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit sculpts are based on the artwork used in the Peter Jackson films (where applicable). It may be a case of a change in the film effects that didn't get passed on to GW for their sculpts.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 20:21:28


Post by: Tamereth


Re-printing the source books is great news, I need the free peoples / fallen realms for my ent / uruk hai armies.

Also old models coming back is good, there are a couple I wish I had picked up years ago that went out of production.

I'm also interested in what new stuff they might come out with. I know there's a bunch of stuff from the battle of five armies, but to be honest they don't really interest me. Are we likely to see anything based on the lotr trilogy?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 20:23:08


Post by: Da Boss


A new starter would be brilliant. I never picked up Goblin Town as I'm waiting to see it discounted somewhere, but I would pick up another one if it was reasonably priced.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 20:26:15


Post by: Manchu


 ImAGeek wrote:
They're the Gundabad Orcs from the Battle of the 5 Armies. They did do models for them, but only like 6 in total and they were very expensive.
GW makes Gundabad Orcs >yes< but not ones with those helmets.
 Ghaz wrote:
It may be a case of a change in the film effects that didn't get passed on to GW for their sculpts.
Mr. Troke mentioned that the Bo5A release was marred by New Line changing a bunch of stuff in the middle of development. I'm sure some of you probably recall this also happening previously with regard to GW having to resculpt Smaug to take into account his revised wyvern-esque anatomy. Oh and I guess it also happened with Unexpected Journey, concerning Azog/Bolg change-ups.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 20:39:45


Post by: Ghaz


Yes. The move from two films to three also accounted for a somewhat weird release for what GW could do for the second film.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 21:07:33


Post by: Warpig1815


Having never played, what exactly did the original sourcebooks cover?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 21:29:59


Post by: Manchu


At first the books contained rules for whatever new models had been released, usually according to a theme (e.g., Khazad-dum, Fall of Arnor) along with painting tips and, most importantly, cool scenarios covering scenes from the movies or books.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 21:33:47


Post by: Warpig1815


I'm guessing the scenarios mainly covered the events from the film though?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 21:34:04


Post by: ImAGeek


I always wish I'd got the Harad book. I think because they aren't explored much in the film and I haven't read the books (yet) so that was all quite new to me, and I liked the Far Haradrim models.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 21:51:24


Post by: Davor


Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, they really need to go back to what made the game so popular in the first place and give you tons of plastic minis at sane prices, like those bundles. FW producing the models doesn't bode well, though.

If it's going to have the same "premium" pricing it had during the Hobbit years they might as well not bother, honestly.


I am getting excited for this, I would love to restart this, but as Sidstyler, said don't bother if it's priced just like The Hobbit or higher.

Azreal13 wrote:I'm weirdly excited for this, as I've never played it nor hitherto been that curious about it other than one or two models (Mumak, Fellbeast) to paint.

For someone who wasn't war gaming while it was popular the first time, can anyone summarize how it plays, or point me towards an article or similar that does?



It's an I go, you go, I shoot, you shoot type game. Priority is rolled at the beginning of each turn. Tie goes to the person who didn't win priority the last turn. Person with priority moves first then the opponent moves, then person with priority shoots first then your opponent shoots. Been ages, but I think close combat is at the end. Thing is THE EVIL PLAYER can shoot into close combat with a 50/50 chance of hitting intended target, but THE GOOD PLAYER can't.

Also there is Hero abilities (sorry forget the name) where if you lost Priority you have a chance of moving your Hero and what ever is close by to move or shoot first out of sequence.

These are the rules I would have loved for 40K at the time.

Also I haven't seen it mentioned, did everyone forget about War of the Ring or did I miss it? It's like apocalypse for LotR and acted like Fantasy.

Also just saw this link hope it helps.




*edit*

Ok I am wrong that this video shows how to play, but man, I miss these minis. I hope it's affordable, I really want to collect a lot this time around. Please GW don't screw this up. I am ready to spend lots of money.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 22:01:29


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


They're cancelling the Laketown ruins? FFS, they looked great!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 23:06:48


Post by: jullevi


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
They're cancelling the Laketown ruins? FFS, they looked great!


It's a pity that they were never released in the first place because they did look pretty good indeed.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/04 23:54:40


Post by: Ketara


Davor wrote:
Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, they really need to go back to what made the game so popular in the first place and give you tons of plastic minis at sane prices, like those bundles. FW producing the models doesn't bode well, though.

If it's going to have the same "premium" pricing it had during the Hobbit years they might as well not bother, honestly.


I am getting excited for this, I would love to restart this, but as Sidstyler, said don't bother if it's priced just like The Hobbit or higher.


The best thing about this game is that it can be played for a pittance. There are so many plastic kits on ebay with just an undercoat going for a song, along with all the basic heroes like Uruk-Hai Captains, or Eomer, or ringwraiths. The newer models are nice and all, but it's totally fine to build an army out of scraps on ebay, and due to the general good balancing of the game, you won't lose to cheese or newer OP stuff.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 00:15:28


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Ghaz wrote:
The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit sculpts are based on the artwork used in the Peter Jackson films (where applicable). It may be a case of a change in the film effects that didn't get passed on to GW for their sculpts.


That happened quite a lot with the Hobbit films. Peter Jackson really screwed GW over by making so many last minute changes to the films.

Changing his mind and having Thranduil ride an Elk instead of a horse (GW had already sculpted him on a horse).
Changing his mind and having the Dwarves discard most of their armour before charging into battle (GW had already sculpted them in full plate armour). To be fair though that was more out of necessity as the armour was far too impractical for the actors to perform action scenes in.
The Gundabad Orcs as mentioned above.
Changing his mind on Azog very late in development for the first movie and making him CGI instead of the "old Orc" design that was recycled into Yazneg. (GW had already sculpted the model, written the profile and printed the rulebook).



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 00:48:19


Post by: Ghaz


However there was almost no problems with the original trilogy. I believe most (if not all) of the problems can be traced back to Peter Jackson taking over from Guillermo del Toro on the first Hobbit film and Warner Bros. adding a third movie.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 00:51:38


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Yes he should have been in charge from the very beginning, or at the very last should have purged most of Del Toros inf!unces.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 00:54:03


Post by: Ghaz


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
... or at the very last should have purged most of Del Toros inf!unces.

Purging del Toro's ideas is most likely caused the problems you noted in your previous post.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 01:13:46


Post by: Davor


 Ghaz wrote:
However there was almost no problems with the original trilogy. I believe most (if not all) of the problems can be traced back to Peter Jackson taking over from Guillermo del Toro on the first Hobbit film and Warner Bros. adding a third movie.


Halving the product with only one third a price cut (hence a price increase) and the insane prices GW were asking for The Hobbit stuff, and not communicating with us (I didn't want to pay $100 for something that was only going to last a year since almost all of us thought it would have been replaced like LorR stuff did, would have bought it and invested in Hobbit more if I knew that) also was the demise of the LotR/Hobbit Line, not just Peter Jackson taking over from Guillermo del Toro and adding the extra movie. If anything that was only minor stuff or just a minor annoyance.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 02:06:17


Post by: Azazelx


I'd like to think of this as good news, but seeing what they did to the prices before The Hobbit and then with the release of The Hobbit makes me dubious at best. Time to buy up the models that I know I need for the few armies I have that are close to painted, and simply hope that I've got close to enough for the rest.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 11:34:28


Post by: Goatmoerser


jullevi wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
They're cancelling the Laketown ruins? FFS, they looked great!


It's a pity that they were never released in the first place because they did look pretty good indeed.


I totally missed them. Are there any pictures up on the net?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 11:47:49


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Goatmoerser wrote:
jullevi wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
They're cancelling the Laketown ruins? FFS, they looked great!


It's a pity that they were never released in the first place because they did look pretty good indeed.


I totally missed them. Are there any pictures up on the net?


They were used as a backdrop in the release videos GW made on their youtube channel for the Laketown models.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/05 12:14:02


Post by: Goatmoerser


What a pity, they look great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_4VJFPOBBg


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 19:10:59


Post by: Iron_Captain


How certain is this rumour?
Because if LotR is coming back, I really need to buy up all the miniatures I can while they are still cheap

Seriously, bringing back LotR would be totally awesome. A great ruleset, the best background imaginable and some of the most awesome miniatures ever.

I do hope however GW will be smart about it and won't bring prices to a Hobbit level. Those prices totally killed the Hobbit, even though it had a lot of potential.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 19:16:23


Post by: infinite_array


 Iron_Captain wrote:

Because if LotR is coming back, I really need to buy up all the miniatures I can while they are still cheap .


Yeah, before GW cuts the contents of the boxes in half again but increases the price.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 19:29:19


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I ended up ordering a whole bunch of books off of Ebay, as this thread and the constant praise the game gets finally got to me. I also own, as I mentioned Escape from Goblin Town, and picked up a Fellowship box, just so I could own the iconic characters all at once (and relatively cheaply).

Is there anything playable I can do with that for the moment? We own literally thousands of extra Mantic models, so proxies are also an option for basic fodder type units across, essentially any race you could imagine. :-p


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 19:36:03


Post by: str00dles1


Ill pass.

War of the Ring was good, when you got 20 figs for 22$ ish bucks.

Changed to 10 figures for 25 bucks was crazy, and the prices being also 4 guys for 27 bucks is also nuts when you need units fo them

The rules were ok, but the elves were 100% broken. You never won in close combat unless you were a hero or they rolled terribly, and even then they had a good chance. Plus their archery was nuts.

I liked it in the early days, but they killed it as it went on.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 20:04:51


Post by: Manchu


 Iron_Captain wrote:
How certain is this rumour?
It doesn't get much more certain than a GW employee announcing it at a GW event held at Warhammer World.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Is there anything playable I can do with that for the moment?
Start a thread in the Hobbit/LotR subforum with a list of what you have and you will get great advice.
str00dles1 wrote:
War of the Ring was good
Oh?
str00dles1 wrote:
The rules were ok, but the elves were 100% broken.
Ah.

Just FYI - this thread is about Strategy Battle Game rather than War of the Rings.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 20:21:10


Post by: RazorEdge


With the new CEO of GW it could be possible they repack to 2 Sprue Plastic Sets with no Price increase,


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 20:40:57


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


The price of the old LOTR stuff doesn't hugely bother me, even though I know they halved the contents compared to when I first bought it, it's still not a terribly expensive game. It was the insane Hobbit prices that wallet shocked me out of buying anything else. You want how much for how many mono pose plastic Mirkwood elves?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 20:46:46


Post by: Slinky


RazorEdge wrote:
With the new CEO of GW it could be possible they repack to 2 Sprue Plastic Sets with no Price increase,


I want to believe!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 20:48:10


Post by: Yodhrin


Out of interest, did anyone ever do a fanconversion of the WHFB races/armies into the LotR SBG system? I like the sound of the rules but I have zero interest in collecting a LotR army.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 20:51:48


Post by: Da Boss


I vaguely remember seeing something like that.

The ruleset is simple enough that you could proxy stuff in or modify things slightly pretty easily.

What sort of armies are you interested in?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 21:10:04


Post by: Ketara


 Yodhrin wrote:
Out of interest, did anyone ever do a fanconversion of the WHFB races/armies into the LotR SBG system? I like the sound of the rules but I have zero interest in collecting a LotR army.


I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases. If you were looking for a skirmish level WHFB game, you could probably translate it without vast effort though(there are monster and chariot rules in LOTR after all).

Frankly, that would have made more sense than Age of SIgmar.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 21:45:52


Post by: mdauben


 Manchu wrote:
DOL GULDUR ORCS

Well, the current plastic Mordor Orcs are already used for Mordor, Isenguard, and Angmar. If they come up with a separate Dol Guldur list, I would expect them to be used for that faction, too. I certainly would not object to a new set of plastic orcs, however.

... ahem ... I would also love to see the Gundabad Orcs in plastic, as I am sure they were meant to be.

Since we have a definitive design for these guys, and they both look different and have different stats, I would certainly hope we get plastic Gundabad's. I've got two packs of the current obscenely expensive finecast figures, but I'd gladly buy two or three dozen more if they were plastic and priced as plastic.

I would love to see a Bo5A starter set - what a missed opportunity this was ! Thanks a lot, New Line ! Well, here's the chance to make amends.

I think by the time BOFA came out, GW was just going through the motions. I think we will see a new starter set coming out with the rebranding to Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game, but I'm not sure it will be a BOFA starter, given the new game is supposed to cover everything from the Battle of the Last Alliance through the final Battle of Bywater which was the official end of the War of the Ring. A BOFA starter is certainly a possibility, and IMO would be an improvement over the Escape from Goblintown as a starter but there's a lot to chose from.

I'd love it they took the idea of the "Start Collecting" box sets for AoS and 40K and did the same with MESBG. A box set for Isenguard, Rohan, Gondor, Mordor, maybe Gundabad. Each one with some infantry, cavalry, and a hero or two? Something that would be playable right out of the box. I bet that could spark a lot of people to get into the game!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 22:08:02


Post by: Manchu


Yes, MESBG definitely needs "start collecting" boxes! The issue is there aren't enough plastic Heroes.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 22:17:20


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Manchu wrote:
Yes, MESBG definitely needs "start collecting" boxes! The issue is there aren't enough plastic Heroes.


Does the game really need plastic heroes?

Multipart plastic kits with lots of options aren't really a thing in the SBG bar a handful of monsters like the troll, and kits with optional shields, banners and horns.

I can see a valid argument for extra conversion parts in plastic kits to make unnamed captains (head options, unique weapon, cloak, unique shield etc) like the Rivindell Knight kit and Morgul Knights, but otherwise, the vast majority of heroes are named heroes and players only need one of each.

Rather than plastic heroes I'd prefer it if they focused on recreating elites and basic troops in plastic. Fountain Court guards, citadel guards, Mirkwood Elf soldiers and knights (they really should have been plastic, and the palace guard fine cast).


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 22:55:06


Post by: Manchu


I brought up plastic Heroes only because I doubt that GW will make Start Collecting boxes that include Finecast Heroes.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 22:56:54


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Maybe they should. It'd naturally bump the price though.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 23:16:03


Post by: Manchu


As long as the box is a break from the price all the stuff would be separately, I think it would be okay. I am just not sure if GW would be comfortable selling any FC at a discount.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/06 23:29:56


Post by: RazorEdge


MESBG will be made by a own Division of FW, so I guess we COULD see Start Collecting Armies for Gondor, Rohan, Mordor, Mirkwood, Mordor, Isengard, Eastlings ect. WITH one Charactere made from FW-Resin.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 05:36:36


Post by: badgermeister


fantastic news. I recently bought Smaug as an ongoing slow build/paint project as I expected the ruleset to die off and see the range disappear in the next year or so.

Having played the original game from release I'm hoping to see a lot of items that were a nightmare to get - the camel riders for a start!

LOTR was a fantastic access drug to the world of wargaming with its easy to learn ruleset so I hope this will recruit future gamers to keep coming in to the hobby as a whole.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 06:55:37


Post by: methebest


They could always make some smallish sprues that have some multi part characters as well as some of the finecast/metal guys on it.

So for example a isengard one would have like 4-5 berserkers 4-5 crossbows and 3 multipart guys who could be made as shamans, captain or banner bearers or just as generic guys for people who don't need more characters but do need the crossbows/berserkers.

Moria one could have black shields and prowlers plus a captain/shaman/drum plus a warg marurder that could be made as a chieftain and 3 random goblins.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 07:11:37


Post by: Manchu


I don't want to sound pessimistic -- I really am just trying to be realistic at this point -- I don't think we are going to see much in the way of new plastic kits, especially more complicated ones the likes of which have really never appeared in the LotR or Hobbit lines.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 08:08:22


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


Don't the Easterling Cavalry (Kataphrats I think?) have command options and multipart models? There is precedent for it (if only in one of the last plastic kits made for LotRs before The Hobbit came along).


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 08:16:04


Post by: Kaiyanwang


I would be happy just with reprints, actually (barring elements missing from the setting, that could come later if the thing works).

But i do not think GW wants to reprint in metal, resin is out of question... so...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit sculpts are based on the artwork used in the Peter Jackson films (where applicable). It may be a case of a change in the film effects that didn't get passed on to GW for their sculpts.


That happened quite a lot with the Hobbit films. Peter Jackson really screwed GW over by making so many last minute changes to the films.

Changing his mind and having Thranduil ride an Elk instead of a horse (GW had already sculpted him on a horse).
Changing his mind and having the Dwarves discard most of their armour before charging into battle (GW had already sculpted them in full plate armour). To be fair though that was more out of necessity as the armour was far too impractical for the actors to perform action scenes in.
The Gundabad Orcs as mentioned above.
Changing his mind on Azog very late in development for the first movie and making him CGI instead of the "old Orc" design that was recycled into Yazneg. (GW had already sculpted the model, written the profile and printed the rulebook).



Is true that the Hobbit looked less inspired/coordinated, and I agree that we cannot blame GW on this. Is just that there was less care, interest and way more rush from the creators of the movie part, this time.
One could see it watching the movies critically, too - is barely in the same setting, different tone, different orcs, different quality of dialogues, incoherence, way more cgi...

The Gundabad orcs were not badly designed, but they are way too big. When the movies of the Hobbit were not planned, GW made their own gundabads (the blackshields) that are more in tone with the setting - they are moria/misty mountain orcs (goblin in the sbg game) with more metal/armor on them.
Is not the first time GW had better concepts than Jackson. Just compare the Radagast from the Jackson movie to the old metal one.

Actually, when I went to see the movie I expected a Radagast like the GW one, but I did see that buffoon


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 08:44:46


Post by: RazorEdge


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Don't the Easterling Cavalry (Kataphrats I think?) have command options and multipart models? There is precedent for it (if only in one of the last plastic kits made for LotRs before The Hobbit came along).


The Knights of Dol Amroth and the Dark Numenor Knights have Banner, Hornblower and a Captain options too. Same for the new Elf cavalry from Hobbit.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 08:45:26


Post by: Slinky


Well, this inspired me to grab a copy of the Mines of Moria starter set


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 09:31:18


Post by: tneva82


Kaiyanwang wrote:
I would be happy just with reprints, actually (barring elements missing from the setting, that could come later if the thing works).

But i do not think GW wants to reprint in metal, resin is out of question... so...


SG is basically expansion of FW and FW deals in resin so...

Personally I'm worried everything goes to resin with price hike. Basic rohirrim warriors in resin could get expensive...


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 09:51:12


Post by: ImAGeek


It being an expansion of FW doesn't mean they can't do plastic - Betrayal at Calth is the first Specialist Games project and the SG team is also part of FW.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 10:22:08


Post by: RazorEdge


I'm sure we can expect new Plastics. I don't believe we will see old Sprues in the announced new Starter Set.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 10:34:29


Post by: Yodhrin


 Ketara wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Out of interest, did anyone ever do a fanconversion of the WHFB races/armies into the LotR SBG system? I like the sound of the rules but I have zero interest in collecting a LotR army.


I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases. If you were looking for a skirmish level WHFB game, you could probably translate it without vast effort though(there are monster and chariot rules in LOTR after all).

Frankly, that would have made more sense than Age of SIgmar.


That was exactly my thinking tbh. I know a couple of folks who could be persuaded to play a skirmish fantasy game as well as 40K/WarmaHordes, but I'd rather carve out and consume my own eyeballs than play AoS and I did always fancy giving SBG a try based on what I saw at GW when I was younger, I just never felt enthused by the idea of collecting a LotR force. Suppose I'll read through the rules and see how simple it would be to port stuff over.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 11:15:51


Post by: tneva82


 ImAGeek wrote:
It being an expansion of FW doesn't mean they can't do plastic - Betrayal at Calth is the first Specialist Games project and the SG team is also part of FW.


Yeah they can do it but I would be expecting most to be resin(since FW deals with resin the resin is hardly out of question). But GW being GW I wouldn't be surprised at all to see plastic being resinified with price hike.

Well one can hope for best but...

Everything plastic ain't going to happen. All the non-plastic old models coming back to print are resin for sure. What's the alternative? Metal? Ain't happening. And plastic is even less likely!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 11:16:43


Post by: Mymearan


If the plastic is re-released it'll most likely be with a model increase per box, but a price drop per mini, like with AoS.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 13:13:51


Post by: His Master's Voice


 Ketara wrote:
I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases.


The SBG uses regimented block though, right? Should make conversion rather easy.

Damn, I need to locate an SBG rulebook copy and see if I can put something together.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 13:23:38


Post by: Mymearan


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases.


The SBG uses regimented block though, right? Should make conversion rather easy.

Damn, I need to locate an SBG rulebook copy and see if I can put something together.


No it doesn't, it doesn't even use units, each model moves individually. War of the Ring, which is a different game, uses movement trays and units.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 13:29:25


Post by: ImAGeek


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases.


The SBG uses regimented block though, right? Should make conversion rather easy.

Damn, I need to locate an SBG rulebook copy and see if I can put something together.


The SBG doesn't, no. It's a skirmish game. War of the Ring had regimented blocks though.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 13:31:53


Post by: Kaiyanwang


In the SBG every model is an unit. There is a caveat: the way models are arranged together matters in many instances - you can build spear or pike walls behind shields, and, at least in the old version, you could shoot from behind the shoulder of an ally with no penalties.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 14:50:36


Post by: mdauben


 Manchu wrote:
I brought up plastic Heroes only because I doubt that GW will make Start Collecting boxes that include Finecast Heroes.

My understanding was that Finecast is dead. Any non-plastic miniatures that are produced for the new MESBG (which is probably all the heroes except the plastic Fellowship from the Mines of Moria starter) are going to be Forgeworld resin.

RazorEdge wrote:
MESBG will be made by a own Division of FW, so I guess we COULD see Start Collecting Armies for Gondor, Rohan, Mordor, Mirkwood, Mordor, Isengard, Eastlings ect. WITH one Charactere made from FW-Resin.

The thing is, if they shoot for the same price point as the AoS/40K boxes, there are going to be more than 12 warriors per box. So, under the SBG rules you probably are going to need at least two heroes if the force in the boxes are going to be playable as they come.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
The SBG uses regimented block though, right? Should make conversion rather easy..

No, that was War of the Ring, which used the round based SBG figures in movement trays to make ranked units.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 15:22:07


Post by: Albino Squirrel


 ImAGeek wrote:
It being an expansion of FW doesn't mean they can't do plastic - Betrayal at Calth is the first Specialist Games project and the SG team is also part of FW.


Betrayal at Calth was NOT a Specialist Games project. The first project for the new Specialist Games department is going to be Blood Bowl.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 15:25:34


Post by: Manchu


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Don't the Easterling Cavalry (Kataphrats I think?) have command options and multipart models? There is precedent for it (if only in one of the last plastic kits made for LotRs before The Hobbit came along).
Yes you can make a mounted Easterling Captain and a War Drummer. That kit also has a casualty on the sprue. It is one of the best plastic kits in the line, along with the Troll kit.
 mdauben wrote:
My understanding was that Finecast is dead. Any non-plastic miniatures that are produced for the new MESBG (which is probably all the heroes except the plastic Fellowship from the Mines of Moria starter) are going to be Forgeworld resin.
Ha, well, I guess if you believe FC and FW resin are different. (Tom Kirby personally spits in each batch of FC while imagining customers' faces?) My takeaway is, the new stuff will be sold through FW and therefore there will be no possibility of any discount. This also makes me think that all new LotR stuff will be resin and that we will see no new plastic.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 15:35:15


Post by: Silent Puffin?


 Manchu wrote:
This also makes me think that all new LotR stuff will be resin and that we will see no new plastic.


Highly likely, at least initially.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 16:02:59


Post by: ImAGeek


Albino Squirrel wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
It being an expansion of FW doesn't mean they can't do plastic - Betrayal at Calth is the first Specialist Games project and the SG team is also part of FW.


Betrayal at Calth was NOT a Specialist Games project. The first project for the new Specialist Games department is going to be Blood Bowl.


I'm almost certain I read it was, but I can't find it now so you might be right. Either way I've definitely seen that the Specialist Games team are gonna be doing plastic stuff.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 16:04:34


Post by: tneva82


Albino Squirrel wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
It being an expansion of FW doesn't mean they can't do plastic - Betrayal at Calth is the first Specialist Games project and the SG team is also part of FW.


Betrayal at Calth was NOT a Specialist Games project. The first project for the new Specialist Games department is going to be Blood Bowl.


Well basically same guys are also in the new SG so while not officially SG project de facto is. Guess it could be called SG's warm up project


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 19:48:55


Post by: RazorEdge


I hope Haldir in Armour and the old Galadrim Metal Archers will in FW-Resin return. Rangers of Gondor too.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 20:48:04


Post by: Ketara


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases.


The SBG uses regimented block though, right? Should make conversion rather easy.

Damn, I need to locate an SBG rulebook copy and see if I can put something together.


I'm afraid that's the War of the Ring ruleset, which is renowned for being as horribly broken and bad as SBG is good. With yours and Yodhrin's comments so far though, I'm considering knocking together some WHFB army profiles for SBG.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 21:16:51


Post by: Manchu


 Ketara wrote:
I'm considering knocking together some WHFB army profiles for SBG.
I was thinking the same, as I assembled some round-based Bloodletters last evening. But it also made me think, there is an awful lot of variety in Fantasy that you don't find in SBG. SBG is certainly well balanced and I think one reason is that there is not a huge range of weird things. Like what is a Bloodletter's Fight score? Compared to a Emprie State Troo- er, Freeguilder? Compared to a Stormcast Eternal?

One of the reason SBG is so good is that Middle-earth is fantastical without being over the top so you can have a nice balance of forces among the factions.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 21:32:01


Post by: Ielthan


 Ketara wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases.


The SBG uses regimented block though, right? Should make conversion rather easy.

Damn, I need to locate an SBG rulebook copy and see if I can put something together.


I'm afraid that's the War of the Ring ruleset, which is renowned for being as horribly broken and bad as SBG is good. With yours and Yodhrin's comments so far though, I'm considering knocking together some WHFB army profiles for SBG.


WotR needed another edition to fix it really. We play with an A4 sheet of house rules (xelee rules - the same ones basically everyone uses who still plays it). It had 2 big issues basically, magic was ridiculously broken, but actually easily fixed (like 2 tweaks), and the lists in the book weren't even close to balanced. Harder to fix, but doable for all but the elves.

There's a good Noldor list Xelee wrote that we use for high elves that makes them playable. Without those you have to rely on stupid shenanigans abusing certain rules with galadriel and the twins to get huge amounts of might, even then it's a struggle. Whenever people tell me how much GW worships elves, I tell them go try WotR, they're unplayably gak.

All that said the game looks incredible on the tabletop, really feels epic and tactical but different to wfb, characters feel like they do in the books and films. The book itself, despite it's faults was a real labour of love from someone who knew tolkien's work completely and worth getting if you can find a copy, as is the battlehosts book (first use of formations by gw iirc). The story scenarios are amazing but are apocalypse size but bigger.

Back on topic SBG is a great game, needs some tweaks on the stuff that came in with the hobbit, certainly some of the last releases were way too good. We tend to play with just LotR stuff and it's fantastic. The game itself was written for playing the story scenarios and shines in these; of my top 5 wargames ever 3 are Ambush at Amon Hen. I highly recommend getting the Journey Books if you can. The other supplements such as the scouring of the shire, khazad-dum, the ruin of arnor and the fall of the necromancer are also really fun to play.

For anyone interested in getting into it I highly recommend checking out this youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/GBHLPodcast

These guys have pretty much single handedly revived SBG, it's actually incredible the effect they've had in the few years they've been doing it. They even host their own tournament twice a year now, and though I'm yet to make it by all reports it's great.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 21:39:50


Post by: Paradigm


 Manchu wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I'm considering knocking together some WHFB army profiles for SBG.
I was thinking the same, as I assembled some round-based Bloodletters last evening. But it also made me think, there is an awful lot of variety in Fantasy that you don't find in SBG. SBG is certainly well balanced and I think one reason is that there is not a huge range of weird things. Like what is a Bloodletter's Fight score? Compared to a Emprie State Troo- er, Freeguilder? Compared to a Stormcast Eternal?

One of the reason SBG is so good is that Middle-earth is fantastical without being over the top so you can have a nice balance of forces among the factions.


Count me in on any project to write a Warhammer 'expansion' for LotR. I considered doing something similar when WFB blew up, but as one of the few who actually rather likes AoS (on paper, at least, I haven't had a chance to try it yet) I decided not to work something up. Happy to help with any similar project if someone wants to start one.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 21:54:39


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Ielthan wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I never heard of one. WHFB is on a square base system after all, and relies on entire regiments, whilst LOTR is skirmish and uses round bases.


The SBG uses regimented block though, right? Should make conversion rather easy.

Damn, I need to locate an SBG rulebook copy and see if I can put something together.


I'm afraid that's the War of the Ring ruleset, which is renowned for being as horribly broken and bad as SBG is good. With yours and Yodhrin's comments so far though, I'm considering knocking together some WHFB army profiles for SBG.


WotR needed another edition to fix it really. We play with an A4 sheet of house rules (xelee rules - the same ones basically everyone uses who still plays it). It had 2 big issues basically, magic was ridiculously broken, but actually easily fixed (like 2 tweaks), and the lists in the book weren't even close to balanced. Harder to fix, but doable for all but the elves.

There's a good Noldor list Xelee wrote that we use for high elves that makes them playable. Without those you have to rely on stupid shenanigans abusing certain rules with galadriel and the twins to get huge amounts of might, even then it's a struggle. Whenever people tell me how much GW worships elves, I tell them go try WotR, they're unplayably gak.

All that said the game looks incredible on the tabletop, really feels epic and tactical but different to wfb, characters feel like they do in the books and films. The book itself, despite it's faults was a real labour of love from someone who knew tolkien's work completely and worth getting if you can find a copy, as is the battlehosts book (first use of formations by gw iirc). The story scenarios are amazing but are apocalypse size but bigger.

Back on topic SBG is a great game, needs some tweaks on the stuff that came in with the hobbit, certainly some of the last releases were way too good. We tend to play with just LotR stuff and it's fantastic. The game itself was written for playing the story scenarios and shines in these; of my top 5 wargames ever 3 are Ambush at Amon Hen. I highly recommend getting the Journey Books if you can. The other supplements such as the scouring of the shire, khazad-dum, the ruin of arnor and the fall of the necromancer are also really fun to play.

For anyone interested in getting into it I highly recommend checking out this youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/GBHLPodcast

These guys have pretty much single handedly revived SBG, it's actually incredible the effect they've had in the few years they've been doing it. They even host their own tournament twice a year now, and though I'm yet to make it by all reports it's great.


Their tournaments are amazing, yes. Though the toilets always left a lot to be desired...

But I heard the former venue shut down and future tournaments will be at a new venue. With better toilets I hope.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 21:58:33


Post by: Manchu


 Paradigm wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I'm considering knocking together some WHFB army profiles for SBG.
I was thinking the same, as I assembled some round-based Bloodletters last evening. But it also made me think, there is an awful lot of variety in Fantasy that you don't find in SBG. SBG is certainly well balanced and I think one reason is that there is not a huge range of weird things. Like what is a Bloodletter's Fight score? Compared to a Emprie State Troo- er, Freeguilder? Compared to a Stormcast Eternal?

One of the reason SBG is so good is that Middle-earth is fantastical without being over the top so you can have a nice balance of forces among the factions.
Count me in on any project to write a Warhammer 'expansion' for LotR. I considered doing something similar when WFB blew up, but as one of the few who actually rather likes AoS (on paper, at least, I haven't had a chance to try it yet) I decided not to work something up. Happy to help with any similar project if someone wants to start one.
Yeah why not see what we can come up with, at least scratch the surface a bit:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/686644.page#8572944


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 22:06:42


Post by: Ielthan


SBG is an infinitely better system than AOS (note Rick Priestly wrote the original SBG), I'm a fantasy player of 20 years, I gave AOS 50 games to convert me, but honestly it's just dreck. A truly awful system with little in the way of tactics, a very low skill cap, and it looks pretty abysmal on the table, especially later in the game where just devolves into a brawling mush of figures. It's aimed to allow kids to just push stuff around on the table as soon as possible, nothing more. Honestly when playing it occurred to me more than once "why didn't they just use SBG rules?".


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 22:27:53


Post by: Kaiyanwang


Ielthan wrote:
SBG is an infinitely better system than AOS (note Rick Priestly wrote the original SBG), I'm a fantasy player of 20 years, I gave AOS 50 games to convert me, but honestly it's just dreck. A truly awful system with little in the way of tactics, a very low skill cap, and it looks pretty abysmal on the table, especially later in the game where just devolves into a brawling mush of figures. It's aimed to allow kids to just push stuff around on the table as soon as possible, nothing more. Honestly when playing it occurred to me more than once "why didn't they just use SBG rules?".


Happened the same to me.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/07 22:33:15


Post by: Manchu


Well in any case there is now a thread in which we're discussing how to convert SBG to make room for Warhammer Fantasy stuff so you can pick up this discussion there. Thanks!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 11:12:04


Post by: badgermeister


I apologise if this has been the case for a while but on the GW direct site there is almost every single released miniature available for the LOTR range. I can see an order for camel riders going in shortly for myself.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 11:47:44


Post by: ImAGeek


badgermeister wrote:
I apologise if this has been the case for a while but on the GW direct site there is almost every single released miniature available for the LOTR range. I can see an order for camel riders going in shortly for myself.


Yeah I've always liked the Far Harad/Harad stuff. Now I know it's coming back I might get some myself.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 14:04:55


Post by: Manchu


badgermeister wrote:
on the GW direct site there is almost every single released miniature available for the LOTR range
A lot of stuff is still missing. Pretty much nothing has changed in the last three months or so, just the regular stuff coming in and out of stock. For example, I recently ordered some Mahud Warriors but they went out of stock before my order was filled so I only got one out of the two packs I ordered.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 14:09:49


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Out of curiosity (again, no rulebooks in hand yet), does list-building break armies down by race or source-book? I'm trying to figure out of its safe to buy all different Free Peoples units, thinking they might mix together acceptably?

Also, any "learn to play" videos online that people recommend? I have always best learned to play a game from seeing it played out, while someone explains the rules.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 14:17:42


Post by: Manchu


Each of the five sourcebooks contains multiple lists (Except the Mordor book, which is all Mordor). Any good list can ally with and good list, and same for evil lists. To ally, you simply pick a Hero from each list and that Hero can lead up to 12 Warriors from their respective lists. The bow limit applies to each allied contingent in your list separately rather than to the overall force.


check out this vid from GBHL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkgHoUIK4l4


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 15:13:52


Post by: Slinky


Good video, thanks!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 15:57:01


Post by: mdauben


 Manchu wrote:
Ha, well, I guess if you believe FC and FW resin are different.

Unless FW has changed their "resin" in the last couple years (I think its been that long since I bought any FW figures), I've got miniatures in both FW "resin" and GW "finecast" and they are definitely two different materials. The FW stuff is (was?) 100% better.

 Manchu wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
I'm considering knocking together some WHFB army profiles for SBG.
I was thinking the same, as I assembled some round-based Bloodletters last evening. But it also made me think, there is an awful lot of variety in Fantasy that you don't find in SBG. SBG is certainly well balanced and I think one reason is that there is not a huge range of weird things. Like what is a Bloodletter's Fight score? Compared to a Emprie State Troo- er, Freeguilder? Compared to a Stormcast Eternal?

One of the reason SBG is so good is that Middle-earth is fantastical without being over the top so you can have a nice balance of forces among the factions.

Yeah, IMO that's the thing, people are not going to duplicate their Warhammer Fantasy armies in the SBG rules. They are going to need to tone down the OTT rules and stats and magic. I mean, in terms of the Middle Earth setting, Aragorn was supposed to be a murder-machine, but is stats are not that insane. To me, that's a good thing but if you want the same OTT gameplay as the old WFB rules, they need to look somewhere else.

Taking your example, I'd probably look at the stats for something an Uruk-hai Berzerker as a starting point for a Bloodletter.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 16:28:49


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Manchu wrote:
Each of the five sourcebooks contains multiple lists (Except the Mordor book, which is all Mordor). Any good list can ally with and good list, and same for evil lists. To ally, you simply pick a Hero from each list and that Hero can lead up to 12 Warriors from their respective lists. The bow limit applies to each allied contingent in your list separately rather than to the overall force.


check out this vid from GBHL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkgHoUIK4l4


Thanks for that info. The video was great at even quickly conveying core-rules, but tactical meat. I like what I saw.

Incidentally, which source books were the most recent? On Ebay I saw one Mordor book with an image from the movies on the cover, another with a GW Troll model wielding a flail. Both just say they are Mordor Sourcebooks.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 16:33:21


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 mdauben wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Ha, well, I guess if you believe FC and FW resin are different.

Unless FW has changed their "resin" in the last couple years (I think its been that long since I bought any FW figures), I've got miniatures in both FW "resin" and GW "finecast" and they are definitely two different materials. The FW stuff is (was?) 100% better.
Unless FC has been changed recently, they're very different. The reason FC models are on sprues is because the entire process is different (compared it to FW resin that will instead have a large block where the resin was poured in).

When they go to the extra mile saying for Smaug "This magnificent 42 piece miniature is hand cast using the highest quality resin (the same used by Forge World)" to me it kind of implies that every other model GW put out is NOT using the same resin as FW


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 18:07:05


Post by: Manchu


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, which source books were the most recent?
- Kingdoms of Men
- Free Peoples
- Fallen Realms
- Moria & Angmar

and one each for the Hobbit movies (the Bo5A one is a free PDF)


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 18:15:46


Post by: Davor


 Manchu wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, which source books were the most recent?
- Kingdoms of Men
- Free Peoples
- Fallen Realms
- Moria & Angmar

and one each for the Hobbit movies (the Bo5A one is a free PDF)


Will these books become obsolete once the new Middle Earth book rules come out? I never did buy these. I am just wondering if I will have to buy these and start painting what I never did or just wait till the new onces come out.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 18:16:13


Post by: ImAGeek


 Manchu wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, which source books were the most recent?
- Kingdoms of Men
- Free Peoples
- Fallen Realms
- Moria & Angmar

and one each for the Hobbit movies (the Bo5A one is a free PDF)


And Mordor, right?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 18:51:44


Post by: Manchu


Yes and Mordor - lol dunno how I left that one out!

As to whether they will become obsolete ...

GW has confirmed through multiple lines of communication that they intend to reprint the army books. I don't know whether that involves updating them.

Best advice - just hold on, the new books should be out in a couple of months.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 19:45:38


Post by: Davor


Thanks Manchu, hopefully it is a couple of months and not November. Sad, I think of November as LotR release date lol.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 20:02:29


Post by: MacMuckles


Is there any fluff in the source books? If there is, how's the quality?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 20:05:31


Post by: Ketara


MacMuckles wrote:
Is there any fluff in the source books? If there is, how's the quality?


I've heard the fluff for this game is pretty good. I think it may have won an award or two at some point.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 20:15:32


Post by: MacMuckles


 Ketara wrote:
MacMuckles wrote:
Is there any fluff in the source books? If there is, how's the quality?


I've heard the fluff for this game is pretty good. I think it may have won an award or two at some point.



lol, I definitely had that one coming
I meant more along new fluff that expands on the classics, or any GW additions. Do they exist? Are they good?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 20:33:09


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Manchu wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, which source books were the most recent?
- Kingdoms of Men
- Free Peoples
- Fallen Realms
- Moria & Angmar

and one each for the Hobbit movies (the Bo5A one is a free PDF)


No, no... I mean, I know those were the most recent books for army lists... but looking at Ebay I see a couple different covers... are there multiple editions of these? As I said, the one has a still from the movie as a cover, "Mordor" for example with some Uruks... and another auction has a picture of a book with the GW armored Troll on the cover. Both say they are the LotR: SBG Mordor Sourcebook.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 20:43:49


Post by: Ghaz


The current sourcebooks for LotR will look like this...



There is only one printing of the Hobbit books.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 21:13:21


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I got lucky. :-p Those were the ones I saw first when I went on an ordering spree. :-p

Amazingly cheap game... probably by virtue of people assuming it is gone (wrongly it seems :-) ). I got one of each source-book for about $14 a piece.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/08 22:14:59


Post by: mdauben


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, which source books were the most recent? On Ebay I saw one Mordor book with an image from the movies on the cover, another with a GW Troll model wielding a flail. Both just say they are Mordor Sourcebooks.

The army books all have blue covers and photos from the movies. These are the ones you want. There are also older "sourcebooks" that IIRC all have photos of painted miniatures on them. They have background, stats and scenarios, doo, but they are older books and may not have everything.

Davor wrote:
Will these books become obsolete once the new Middle Earth book rules come out? I never did buy these. I am just wondering if I will have to buy these and start painting what I never did or just wait till the new onces come out.

What I have heard is that they are "reprinting" them, which would seem to indicate no changes. GW has done errata sheets for each of the books, though, which implies there are some things that need to be added or corrected, so they may update the contents before printing the new books. In other words, we just don't know yet!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/09 06:13:08


Post by: ImAGeek


MacMuckles wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
MacMuckles wrote:
Is there any fluff in the source books? If there is, how's the quality?


I've heard the fluff for this game is pretty good. I think it may have won an award or two at some point.



lol, I definitely had that one coming
I meant more along new fluff that expands on the classics, or any GW additions. Do they exist? Are they good?


There is some Games Workshop additions to the fluff, yeah. They named all 9 Ringwraiths (well gave them titles, not names, such as 'the Tainted' and 'the Dark Marshal') where as only two are named in the books; the Witch King and Khamûl the Easterling. They also made sourcebooks around a line in the books (The Khand stuff they did was from one line in the book), and stuff from the appendixes. I'm not sure what the consensus on their fluff is though, I like it personally, but I haven't read the books fully yet to know what's different and what's from the original source.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 15:54:48


Post by: Manchu



Long-awaited GBHL vid on Mr. Troke's presentation.

Highlights -

- GW's license covers the main body of the text of LotR and Hobbit but not the appendices to LotR - very surprising

- in addition to a manager and writer, there are three full-time model designers now working on the line

- new models will certainly be released by October

- existing LotR models (I guess the metal and FC ones) will go to FW

- James does not mention Dain by name for some reason ... frustrating secrecy - is this GW's fault or just James?



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:01:05


Post by: Kanluwen


It's really not that surprising that the appendices aren't covered--that's been the way the license was since the beginning. It covered the films and the novels tied to them. Them getting the Appendices and Silmarillion would have been huuuuuuuuuuuge news.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:05:54


Post by: Manchu


Why are you lumping the Appendices together with the Silmarillion? "The Appendices" are the appendices to The Lord of the Rings, one of the two novels covered by the license. They have always been published as part of LotR, meaning that they were published during the lifetime of the author, which is when these licenses originated. The Silmarillion by contrast was not published until four years after Tolkien's death, long after any licenses were created. It is therefore quite natural to assume that the Appendices are covered as part of the novel - and therefore surprising that they are not!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:09:23


Post by: Kanluwen


 Manchu wrote:
Why are you lumping the Appendices together with the Silmarillion? "The Appendices" are the appendices to The Lord of the Rings, one of the two novels covered by the license. They have always been published as part of LotR, meaning that they were published during the lifetime of the author, which is when these licenses originated. The Silmarillion by contrast was not published until four years after Tolkien's death, long after any licenses were created. It is therefore quite natural to assume that the Appendices are covered as part of the novel - and therefore surprising that they are not!

The reason I'm "lumping the Appendices together with the Silmarillion" is that from what was discussed waaaaaay back when "The Hobbit" license was announced is that apparently the Tolkien Estate considers The Appendices their own thing, tied directly to the novel's content and therefore a separate license to that of the license that GW owns which covers the films and certain materials from the novels(Tom Bombadil, for example) that made its way into the LOTR game but have since gone away.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:14:26


Post by: Slinky


In the follow up Q&Q video on the GBHL channel, they did mention Dain by name.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:20:05


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Now if only there were a less pricey way to enjoy some more of the character options out there.

Having just started buying in, the core of lists is amongst the cheapest entry points I have seen in a game of this scale, and yet the minute you add in heroes/captains, the value proposition becomes drastically different.

On the one hand, marquee "characters" like the Fellowship can be had in multiple ways cheaply, but the minute you want Gandalf to be on a horse, we're talking $40+ for the one model. :-p

Guess i'm going the cheapy route of painting up some Uruks and Orcs in "Captain" colors. :-p


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:33:44


Post by: Manchu


 Kanluwen wrote:
apparently the Tolkien Estate considers The Appendices their own thing, tied directly to the novel's content and therefore a separate license to that of the license that GW owns which covers the films and certain materials from the novels(Tom Bombadil, for example) that made its way into the LOTR game but have since gone away
This doesn't make any sense. It seems like you don't really know what you are talking about, either in terms of Tolkien or GW or the history of the licenses. "Have since gone away"? Are you saying the license GW holds has become more restrictive? Separately - we are talking about a part of the novel. Tolkien insisted the Appendices be published with LotR as essential to understanding LotR. If the Appendices were never part of the license Tolkien negotiated during his life, that is one thing - I just don't know if that's what happened. It would be surprising given his own take on the Appendices' relationship to the novel.
 Slinky wrote:
In the follow up Q&Q video on the GBHL channel, they did mention Dain by name.
It was a really frustrating omission. Just a quirk of James (he refused to communicate anything about the news during Throne of Skulls) or is this part of the "bad side" of GW - needless secrecy? Maybe it is needful secrecy but of course that should itself be explained. Note that GW still has not officially announced any of this to the rest of the world, nor given any indication that they intend to. The company has made some good moves lately but it seems like they are still mired in passive hostility towards customers.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
but the minute you want Gandalf to be on a horse, we're talking $40+ for the one model
And that's just retail. Mounted Gandalf has been going for crazy amounts in the aftermarket. I paid 60 USD for mine.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:40:02


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I imagine some of that is the sheer legal hoops needing to be jumped through, on your later point. This is a GW now previewing Bloodbowl content almost a year out.... so I wager New Line, or someone else with a say, is slowing things up?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 16:48:35


Post by: Manchu


I suppose it's possible - but why? The movies are made. The extended editions have been on the shelves for a while now. There are no more secrets to trouble over. I suppose they need to have designs approved but that would not keep them from posting on their website that they plan to re-brand SBG and continue supporting it. If they can tell it to a room full of customers not bound by any NDA then they can tell it to the rest of us.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 17:00:37


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Manchu wrote:
I suppose it's possible - but why? The movies are made. The extended editions have been on the shelves for a while now. There are no more secrets to trouble over. I suppose they need to have designs approved but that would not keep them from posting on their website that they plan to re-brand SBG and continue supporting it. If they can tell it to a room full of customers not bound by any NDA then they can tell it to the rest of us.


For what it is worth, I have worked with Warner Brothers on completely unrelated projects... and in my experience... they're insane and make all kinds of demands of licensees. :-p


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 17:01:21


Post by: Ghaz


 Manchu wrote:
I suppose it's possible - but why? The movies are made. The extended editions have been on the shelves for a while now. There are no more secrets to trouble over. I suppose they need to have designs approved but that would not keep them from posting on their website that they plan to re-brand SBG and continue supporting it. If they can tell it to a room full of customers not bound by any NDA then they can tell it to the rest of us.

The Babylon 5 Wars game from Agents of Gaming was cancelled simply because the show went off the air. I wouldn't be surprised at any requirements a licensor makes, even if there are no new films coming from them.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 17:05:56


Post by: Manchu


Once again - GW has announced this stuff to people not bound by NDAs ... it isn't secret. Why not put up something on the website or on their new FB accounts?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 20:14:23


Post by: Momotaro


 Manchu wrote:
Why are you lumping the Appendices together with the Silmarillion? "The Appendices" are the appendices to The Lord of the Rings, one of the two novels covered by the license. They have always been published as part of LotR, meaning that they were published during the lifetime of the author, which is when these licenses originated. The Silmarillion by contrast was not published until four years after Tolkien's death, long after any licenses were created. It is therefore quite natural to assume that the Appendices are covered as part of the novel - and therefore surprising that they are not!


It was my understanding - and don't ask where it came from - that the Zaentz licence only covered part of the Appendices, specifically the Tale of Years from Appendix B. Sadly many conversations from the early days of the game have long since departed the net, and confirming the exact nature of the licence is not straightforward - I'm sure you'll take my statement with the pinch of salt it merits

It's certainly interesting that the Ruin of Arnor - the one truly "historical" SGB supplement - was surprisingly thin on detail. There's no mention of Glorfindel or Earnur (even though the latter is listed in the timeline) in the Battle of Fornost scenario, for example.

I do have one copy of LotR from the late 60s (I appear to have... several) that has only the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, not even all of Appendix A. Apparently Tolkien himself pleaded for that to be included as an absolute minimum,as a number of paperback versions and foreign-language translations planned to drop the appendices completely (indeed,many included only that one part). If it drops the price, why not just buy the rights to the main text?

Certainly The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales - and anything later - is right out. A number of licensees have played fast and loose with that limitation - Iron Crown Enterprises seem to have ignored it completely producing their MERP books, and there's an apocryphal story about GW threatening the Tolkien Estate that they'd call Khamul "Bob the Nazgul" if they couldn't use the name.

But this is little more than Kremlin-watching - we'll see what GW has planned soon enough.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 20:27:14


Post by: Manchu


In any case - the point is that Mr. Troke clarified that GW does not hold a license for material from the Appendices to the Lord of the Rings. I interpret this as his warning to us not to scour the Appendices for concepts we would like made into models ... unless of course there is also a reference to them in the "main body of the text" of the novel. If this has been the state of GW's licensing all along, it hasn't stopped them from using tiny details and allusions to give us models for Arvedui, Malbeth, Khamûl, etc. - although I guess it did stop them from calling the Khandish charioteers "wainriders" (which would not have been technically appropriate anyhow) or depicting them as wagon-mounted warriors. Mr. Troke apparently did reiterate that their license includes room for taking some creative liberty, such as inventing names/titles for the Nazgûl.

On that note, I would love to see updated Nazgûl based on their appearance in The Battle of the Five Armies:



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 20:38:17


Post by: Uriels_Flame


I thought there was a lot of source material when ICE used to hold the rights to LotR.

I loved that system... Still have the old books.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 20:46:44


Post by: Manchu


ICE made up a ton of stuff for MERP.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 20:53:12


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


Bad news for me, I've got most of the original source books, and I was hoping to sell them on for vastly inflated prices in a year ot two

but with these new books coming out, GW have foiled my plans!!!! Damn you GW!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 21:10:50


Post by: ImAGeek


 Manchu wrote:
In any case - the point is that Mr. Troke clarified that GW does not hold a license for material from the Appendices to the Lord of the Rings. I interpret this as his warning to us not to scour the Appendices for concepts we would like made into models ... unless of course there is also a reference to them in the "main body of the text" of the novel. If this has been the state of GW's licensing all along, it hasn't stopped them from using tiny details and allusions to give us models for Arvedui, Malbeth, Khamûl, etc. - although I guess it did stop them from calling the Khandish charioteers "wainriders" (which would not have been technically appropriate anyhow) or depicting them as wagon-mounted warriors. Mr. Troke apparently did reiterate that their license includes room for taking some creative liberty, such as inventing names/titles for the Nazgûl.

On that note, I would love to see updated Nazgûl based on their appearance in The Battle of the Five Armies:



Someone sculpted them for a fan made SBG magazine and they look phenomenal, I really like their depiction in BotFA.

[Thumb - image.jpeg]


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 21:13:36


Post by: Manchu


That's GBHL's fanzine. The first two issues are amazing. Go get copies if you haven't already!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/13 21:17:26


Post by: ImAGeek


Yeah I spoke to them on their Facebook group about it because I was just blown away by the Nazgûl sculpts. There'll be more info about them in that issue when it's released so I'll definitely get that one.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/14 05:45:30


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Never mind the Ringwraiths, I want that Sauron the Necromancer.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/15 22:06:54


Post by: Davor


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Never mind the Ringwraiths, I want that Sauron the Necromancer.


Not sure what you mean. I don't see it sold out, so you can still buy it if you want it. Well at least on the Canadian GW site that is.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/15 22:08:10


Post by: Manchu


He means, he wants another Necromancer figure based on the apparition from the Hobbit movies. IIRC the existing figure was designed by GW before the Hobbit movies came out.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/15 22:20:56


Post by: ImAGeek


I think he means specifically the one in the SBG magazine cover with the Nazgûl.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/04/15 23:32:22


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 ImAGeek wrote:
I think he means specifically the one in the SBG magazine cover with the Nazgûl.


Bingo! Yathzee!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/08 07:06:13


Post by: Slinky


Saw this in the Forge World thread:

We can also announce that Games Workshop’s newly appointed Middle-earth team will be showcasing their projects at Warhammer Fest.

AND you'll get First Access to formerly out-of- production products like all five The Lord of The Rings TM Sourcebooks and several absent Citadel miniatures! We're revealing more soon...


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 10:05:41


Post by: ImAGeek


From Facebook:




Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 10:08:45


Post by: Paradigm


Ok, those are pretty stunning!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 10:31:12


Post by: Ketara


There's more.










Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 10:35:42


Post by: Paradigm


Awesome! Price will be the clincher in all this, but if those Iron Hills Dwarves end up as a plastic set, count me in for some!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 11:02:47


Post by: VeteranNoob


My DWARVES!! OK, I'm in.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 11:12:37


Post by: reds8n


Those are very nice indeed.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 11:20:13


Post by: willb2064


Looks like the will be releasing the Laketown houses after all, great news!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 12:10:51


Post by: ImAGeek


From FB, wip:


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 12:47:34


Post by: Ketara


I'm assuming that'll have the rules for the new dwarf gear in.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 12:58:31


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Hnnnggggg.... We knew Dain on boar was the last model in development when production kind of... halted... and numerous sources said it was a shame as it looked so good. Seems like now we can concur.

Man that ALL looks soooo good. I'm in for at least one of all of those, and i'm hoping those IronHill Dwarves are in plastic, because I would love to own 20+ of them, versus having like... four if they're in Finecast only.

Great looking ballista too, and those Laketown Houses are great.

I'm definitely in for everything...

Weird that the book isn't branded "Middle Earth SBG" as that is supposed to be the name going forward.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 13:00:46


Post by: Ratius


Great sculpts, really clean and characterful.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 13:05:37


Post by: Paradigm


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Weird that the book isn't branded "Middle Earth SBG" as that is supposed to be the name going forward.


It does say it's in progress, the decision to rebrand might have been a recent one that hasn't made it to the mockups yet. Looks like a lovely chunky book, though, with any luck it'll be a compendium a la the old Big Blue Book that has everything in, LotR and Hobbit... there's enough room in there, I reckon.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 13:12:31


Post by: JamesY


I'll be buying half a dozen of those houses if they are a product!

Jay Clare, former whw store assistant, and very regular participant in middle earth tournis and events, is writing the rules for the new range. He's an awesome guy and I'm looking forward to seeing his rules on the table.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 13:19:39


Post by: Ketara


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Weird that the book isn't branded "Middle Earth SBG" as that is supposed to be the name going forward.


That's probably because they're not relaunching the Middle Earth SBG yet. Remember, they've just reprinted the current army books. They wouldn't want to suddenly invalidate them a month later. This book will most likely just be a bunch of scenarios and rules for a few new warbands, as opposed to any change of the core rules. I expect that will probably come some time mid to late next year along with the rebranding.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 13:42:08


Post by: timetowaste85


Any KoW dwarf player should be happy about those like and shield dwarves to be used as bulwarkers. Damn. Very nice!!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 14:31:21


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 timetowaste85 wrote:
Any KoW dwarf player should be happy about those like and shield dwarves to be used as bulwarkers. Damn. Very nice!!


Well, again... assuming they're in plastic. :-p PLEASE be in plastic. My Grimhammers need some new friends!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 14:59:35


Post by: angelofvengeance


I love the title for the new Hobbit book. Very apt!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 15:02:44


Post by: ShaneTB


That ruins repress (?) was £18.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 15:17:05


Post by: Fugazi


Those look glorious.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 15:26:34


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 ShaneTB wrote:
That ruins repress (?) was £18.


So, the same MSRP (or slightly cheaper) than the original price. Fair play GW. :-)


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 17:40:33


Post by: Slinky


Extremely happy with all the new bits - Looks like I picked the right time to start with the SBG!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 23:11:21


Post by: Ghaz


Saw the following on The One Ring:

First from Rob on the GBHL Facebook group:

"New releases every single month. This will be multiple kits. Some old, some new.

Most new kits will be coming in 'autumn'. Anytime they don't have something new, they will supplement it with a reissue.

Most reissued models will come in whatever they were last cast in. So most will be metal or finecast.

New models will be in forge world resin, as will some old. Eventual aim is for all to be in forge world resin, except the plastics.

Speaking of which, new laketown scenery will be plastic. It's an exception to the rule as it was already so close to being ready for plastic tooling. They hope to release around the end of the year.

New book will be hardback (working title is "There and Back Again"), a supplement to go alongside your hardback hobbit rulebook. It will contain all the rules from DoS and BotFA, as well as new stuff. 30 scenarios will be featured.

Iron Hill Dwarves will be among the first new releases in a few months time. They are still waiting for approval. In the game, Dain is a hardnut who makes nearby dwarves better. He can headbutt models to the ground if he doesn't sound them. The ballista has an arrow stopping move, great denial rules and something totally fresh for the game. The iron hill dwarves are able to form a shield wall (4 dwarves or more in base contact) thus getting a +1 for Defense, so they will be Defense 8.

There were references in Keith's book for the Gundabad Orc Berserkers as well as Thranduil on Elk. There was also a render for a rather tasty looking mace that looked to me like the one Khâmul the Easterling carries in the Dol Guldur scenes.

Very exciting times. They did express they are working on their own time to bring this to us as soon as possible. We need to continue showing our passion and love for the game as we have already been doing!"


And a teaser from Troke himself, responding to a picture of the young Dwalin sculpt with two axes:

"I wonder if there will be specific rules for these guys in the forthcoming book. Someone should ask tomorrow..."


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 23:31:10


Post by: Zywus


 timetowaste85 wrote:
Any KoW dwarf player should be happy about those like and shield dwarves to be used as bulwarkers. Damn. Very nice!!

Might be a bit small to fit in with Mantic dwarfs though?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/14 23:41:25


Post by: Breotan


Those dwarves look a little big for LotR scale. Hopefully it's just a trick of the camera or maybe it's just me.



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 00:20:54


Post by: chiefbigredman


I have a considerable collection of LOTR models, it was the first miniature game I ever got into and got into painting. Just kind of got it for he models not do much for the game....but I've grown up since then and now it's both!

I have the moria set wig the rulebook, fair sized lot of isengard, fair sized lot of kingdoms of men plus more moria stuff!

You can get the rulebook for lotrsbg on eBay for ~$20-40 and you can get army lots fairly cheap sometimes too!
The thing I find about it is people on eBay either ask for outrageous amount of money for models ot they are dirt cheap, nothing in between. Saw a nazgul for $200 unpainted unopened...when I can buy it on GW website for $75 idk what they are thinking haha


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 08:21:41


Post by: deffrekka


I used to play war of the ring with my gondorians only got 1 company and a the old metal captain and banner bearer left now so hopefully they bring back war of the ring too


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 09:37:09


Post by: Paradigm


 Ghaz wrote:
Saw the following on The One Ring:

First from Rob on the GBHL Facebook group:

[i]"New releases every single month. This will be multiple kits. Some old, some new.

Most new kits will be coming in 'autumn'. Anytime they don't have something new, they will supplement it with a reissue.

Most reissued models will come in whatever they were last cast in. So most will be metal or finecast.

New models will be in forge world resin, as will some old. Eventual aim is for all to be in forge world resin, except the plastics.

Splendid news! Sounds like they're making a real commitment not just to keeping the game hanging on but to actively rebuilding it. The only part that worries me slightly is the FW thing, if they are sold through GW stores/made available to retailers then that's all good, but if they're going to want us paying FW's ridiculous shipping charges on every order then no way!


Speaking of which, new laketown scenery will be plastic. It's an exception to the rule as it was already so close to being ready for plastic tooling. They hope to release around the end of the year.

New book will be hardback (working title is "There and Back Again"), a supplement to go alongside your hardback hobbit rulebook. It will contain all the rules from DoS and BotFA, as well as new stuff. 30 scenarios will be featured.

Iron Hill Dwarves will be among the first new releases in a few months time. They are still waiting for approval. In the game, Dain is a hardnut who makes nearby dwarves better. He can headbutt models to the ground if he doesn't sound them. The ballista has an arrow stopping move, great denial rules and something totally fresh for the game. The iron hill dwarves are able to form a shield wall (4 dwarves or more in base contact) thus getting a +1 for Defense, so they will be Defense 8.

There were references in Keith's book for the Gundabad Orc Berserkers as well as Thranduil on Elk. There was also a render for a rather tasty looking mace that looked to me like the one Khâmul the Easterling carries in the Dol Guldur scenes.


This all sounds splendid, so glad they actually plan to give the 'Ol' Twiddly Diddlies' as Dain calls them the ability to counter shooting, that is not something currently in the game and should help set these guys apart...

Suspiciously absent are the Dwarven Ram Riders, but they've got to be in the pipeline given what's on show here!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 09:46:38


Post by: Momotaro


So very many good things coming up for the SBG.

Price will be the deciding factor for me though.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 09:49:00


Post by: ShaneTB


Made those ruins last night. £18 was very reasonable.
Spoiler:





Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 12:32:28


Post by: puree


Not sure whether it has been noted already (Didn't look through 9 pages):

http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-the-hobbit-the-battle-of-five-armies-doubles-campaign-weekend-towards-the-lonely-mountain/

With narrative gaming at it’s heart, and with more than a few twists and turns thrown in for good measure, this will be unlike anything we have run for this system before; trust us when we say you don’t want to miss it. Will you be there on the most dreadful of days, when the terrible battle of the Age is fought? It’s time to choose your allegiance, mount up and ride to war. Du Bekâr!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 18:39:04


Post by: Slinky


Ruins look good. I fear another order to GW is going to have to go in once they are back on sale!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 21:00:36


Post by: Davor


 Slinky wrote:
Ruins look good. I fear another order to GW is going to have to go in once they are back on sale!


Stupid question. GW or Forge World when they go on sale?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/15 21:01:57


Post by: Slinky


Good point - Hopefully GW to avoid FW's horrid shipping pricing!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 06:17:43


Post by: BigWaaagh


They're the plastic OOP, and I'm assuming soon-to-be-reissued, Osgiliath Ruins, aren't they?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 06:22:34


Post by: Mymearan


Yep, £18 is a pretty nice price.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 08:28:56


Post by: Davor


 Mymearan wrote:
Yep, £18 is a pretty nice price.


So that is $36 Canadian. I think that can be a fair price and I would buy it if my FLGS can order it in. Will not buy from Forge World, (like someone said above, the insane shipping prices). Hell I can use it for AoS and 40K as well as LotR/The Hobbit.

Now for a new topic. Would you rather have the name Lord of the Rings, or The Hobbit? I am surprised that GW is keeping the name The Hobbit. You would think GW would want to wash away the Taint of The Hobbit just like they did with WFB. Go back to something that worked and made them lots of money. Maybe they can only use The Hobbit name with the contract they have with New Line Cinema (if it's them) when they renewed till 2020. (I think it was 2020 could be wrong on that date.)


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 09:03:49


Post by: ImAGeek


Davor wrote:
 Mymearan wrote:
Yep, £18 is a pretty nice price.


So that is $36 Canadian. I think that can be a fair price and I would buy it if my FLGS can order it in. Will not buy from Forge World, (like someone said above, the insane shipping prices). Hell I can use it for AoS and 40K as well as LotR/The Hobbit.

Now for a new topic. Would you rather have the name Lord of the Rings, or The Hobbit? I am surprised that GW is keeping the name The Hobbit. You would think GW would want to wash away the Taint of The Hobbit just like they did with WFB. Go back to something that worked and made them lots of money. Maybe they can only use The Hobbit name with the contract they have with New Line Cinema (if it's them) when they renewed till 2020. (I think it was 2020 could be wrong on that date.)


I saw a logo that said 'Middle Earth strategy battle game' with 'The Hobbit' and 'Lord of the Rings' underneath (iirc). So I think it'll be called Middle Earth sbg. The Hobbit book is called that because its all the hobbit expansions in one book.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 13:10:29


Post by: Davor


The book that was shown at the Festival (forgot the name) Said The Hobbit:There and Back Again. I thought that was what the new rule book was going to be called.

I guess I could have been wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ImAGeek wrote:
From FB, wip:


Here it is. So is this something different?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 13:44:01


Post by: godswildcard


I love those ruins! I missed out on them when they went OOP but I'm so glad they're coming back!! I look forward to being able to do an Osgiliath themed table set!

Now if they would just re-release Minas Tirith and Helm's Deep....


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 13:45:27


Post by: judgedoug


As previously reported,
New book will be hardback (working title is "There and Back Again"), a supplement to go alongside your hardback hobbit rulebook. It will contain all the rules from DoS and BotFA, as well as new stuff. 30 scenarios will be featured.

It is the direct supplement to the Hobbit An Unexpected Journey main rulebook, covering all the armies, units, scenarios, rules, etc, of the Desolation of Smaug and Battle of Five Armies films - effectively replacing the now out of print original release of Desolation of Smaug book and unerwhelming Battle of Five Armies PDF.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 13:46:01


Post by: ImAGeek


Davor wrote:
The book that was shown at the Festival (forgot the name) Said The Hobbit:There and Back Again. I thought that was what the new rule book was going to be called.

I guess I could have been wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ImAGeek wrote:
From FB, wip:


Here it is. So is this something different?


That's all the rules from the Hobbit expansions including new stuff (Such as Dain and the Iron Hills dwarfs). I don't think its the actual rulebook (although I guess it might have the rules as well), more like a sourcebook collection for all the hobbit stuff.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 13:46:37


Post by: Paradigm


Apparently that book will basically be a Hobbit mega-sourcebook covering the 3 films/the book, compiling scenarios, profiles, army lists and such.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 14:00:47


Post by: Zywus


The Hobbit motion picture trilogy strategy battle game, or THMPTSBG for short.

The name that just rolls of the tongue :p


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 15:19:00


Post by: namiel


 Manchu wrote:
News is trickling out of Nottingham about Adam Troke's "state of the game" presentation at Throne of Skulls. It seems like the game may be rebranded as "Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game." One attendee on Facebook posted:
Feel gutted for the people who didn't get to come to ToS and hear from Adam Troke. Fantastic stuff he had to say, not sure exactly what we are and aren't aloud to post but needless to say the hobby is safe with Adam and we are getting NEW stuff guaranteed!
Another poster has said there was mentioned of reissuing OOP models.

And from another poster:
What adam said though is he wants us to email them and tell him what we want to see come back and also what we want new.

Send in photos of our painted models and literally support our Middle Earth hobby! Without the support we have shown this hobby in recent years he literally couldn't have got the energy from GW put back in!
And again:
Middle Earth SBG. New stuff and Old stuff to be released! There's your headline from me.


Does this (in the red) mean they want to see out painted and based armies? I have a few of them


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/16 18:38:07


Post by: mdauben


 Paradigm wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Weird that the book isn't branded "Middle Earth SBG" as that is supposed to be the name going forward.


It does say it's in progress, the decision to rebrand might have been a recent one that hasn't made it to the mockups yet. Looks like a lovely chunky book, though, with any luck it'll be a compendium a la the old Big Blue Book that has everything in, LotR and Hobbit... there's enough room in there, I reckon.

From some other rumors I've seen (and the cover text), I suspect this is just a repackaging of the current Hobbit rulebook with the two movie supplements.

Darn! I was ninja'd.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 05:04:01


Post by: Hellfury


LotR receiving official support from GW is great news.

The new dwarves look amazing and I want them.

But... all new releases made by forgeworld? I love their stuff. Obvious quality sculpting. But this saddens me since it will make this niche product even more niche. It translates to life support for the game.

I am having difficulty seeing the wisdom here. If they want the game to succeed, it needs to be readily available in shops, and given more than lackluster model support. That lack of support is what really killed the game, not the hobbits ridiculous prices.

If they had supported WotR, and that game certainly did reinvigorate the cash flow of LotR license for sometime, we wouldn't have gotten to this place.

I just fear that placement in forgeworld is not going to be enough to reinvigorate interest in the line enough to justify the renewal.

I say this as a person who owns at least eight thousand dollars worth of LotR models (this price was preWotR price increase too) and would love to see both the SBG and WotR see more frequent play everywhere.

As that person, and one who loves the dwarves, I won't be buying from FW. That prospect is as bleak as the end of the third age.

One question though.
How is it possible to use that insanely huge dwarfballista in SBG? I could see that in WotR, and half hoped support for that would continue. I know large engines of war were used before in SBG, but they make little sense compared to their use in WotR.

And to reply to the comment way earlier in the thread about WotR being as broken as SBG is good, poppycock and balderdash.
WotR was brilliant too, it just needed fairly minor rule revisions, much as we saw happen to the first iteration of SBG (which in truth was far worse than the first oteration of WotR).


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 07:52:25


Post by: Paradigm


In the extended edition of BotFA, the Dwarf ballista does not work quite how one would expect...

EE Spoilers
Spoiler:

In the EE, the Dwarves and Elves actually come to blows before Azog's army turns up, and the ballista is used to counter the Elven archery. Blade-type-things extend from the spinning shaft as it's in flight, which smash up the Elf arrows before they come close to hitting the Dwarves. That's the function I'd expect it to fulfil here, with a bit of artillery-ing on the side.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 12:19:57


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Hellfury wrote:
LotR receiving official support from GW is great news.

The new dwarves look amazing and I want them.

But... all new releases made by forgeworld? I love their stuff. Obvious quality sculpting. But this saddens me since it will make this niche product even more niche. It translates to life support for the game.
.


Something to remember... they said models would return in the last material they were cast in, so plastic kits will continue to be plastic, metals will return in metal, etc.... NEW casting going to Forgeworld to finish some last elements that never got made doesn't mean stores wouldn't be able to stock the book, existing plastic kits, etc... Plenty exists if it was produced in volume again, to give new players fun options and spark interest.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 13:19:20


Post by: judgedoug


Forgeworld is cheaper than Finecast, don't forget. We'll probably see a price drop on infantry models.

Finecast Hobbit infantry are $8.33 per model; FW is about $6 per model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 mdauben wrote:
From some other rumors I've seen (and the cover text), I suspect this is just a repackaging of the current Hobbit rulebook with the two movie supplements.


No. Redone, with 30 new scenarios, and new army lists to cover all the armies and units that were never produced. It replaces and upgrades and updates the out-of-print Desolation of Smaug sourcebook and the Battle of Five Armies PDF.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 13:21:19


Post by: Commodus Leitdorf


Man I really can't wait for this, I will buy all the things.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 13:28:36


Post by: Fugazi


Based on that pic with multiple Lake Town houses, it would appear that the kit is somewhat modular. Anyone have a sense either way?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 13:45:33


Post by: judgedoug


 Fugazi wrote:
Based on that pic with multiple Lake Town houses, it would appear that the kit is somewhat modular. Anyone have a sense either way?


From what I understand, those were custom made by the studio. The specific Lake-town house on display is the 3-d printed prototype of the plastic kit (and yes, includes the outhouse, boat, and docks/planks). The reason they are going to do it in plastic is because it was already so far along in production that they are going ahead and finishing it up.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 14:54:24


Post by: Hellfury


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
 Hellfury wrote:
LotR receiving official support from GW is great news.

The new dwarves look amazing and I want them.

But... all new releases made by forgeworld? I love their stuff. Obvious quality sculpting. But this saddens me since it will make this niche product even more niche. It translates to life support for the game.
.


Something to remember... they said models would return in the last material they were cast in, so plastic kits will continue to be plastic, metals will return in metal, etc.... NEW casting going to Forgeworld to finish some last elements that never got made doesn't mean stores wouldn't be able to stock the book, existing plastic kits, etc... Plenty exists if it was produced in volume again, to give new players fun options and spark interest.


They would return to the material they were LAST cast in.
Not many metal models were left to look forward to.

But then again, there were a lot of models that were out of production by the time the failcrap business be an, so there is hope in that loop hole for a few assorted old models. Not sure what consolation that is however since the out of production models weren't really major needs.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 15:23:46


Post by: Tremble


I spoke to Adam Troke about the Lake Town house at W/Fest and it is designed to be fully modular. The bigger set is all made from combining multiple houses and is not just a custom studio thing.

He talked about making more scenery sets but said they would most likely be forge world resin pieces but it depends on the poularity of this house. One of the ideas mentioned was a hobbit hole.

He (and the whole team) have real enthusiasim for bringing the game back and they even mentioned a longing to bring back the War of the Ring in the future but stressed everything is based on the game selling!

With regard to the dwarf ballista he described it as drawing a line from weapon to shot target and it denying shooting across the line. Like throwing up a shield that would need to be outflanked to shoot or you need to go into combat to get at them.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 15:51:19


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Tremble wrote:
I spoke to Adam Troke about the Lake Town house at W/Fest and it is designed to be fully modular. The bigger set is all made from combining multiple houses and is not just a custom studio thing.

He talked about making more scenery sets but said they would most likely be forge world resin pieces but it depends on the poularity of this house. One of the ideas mentioned was a hobbit hole.

He (and the whole team) have real enthusiasim for bringing the game back and they even mentioned a longing to bring back the War of the Ring in the future but stressed everything is based on the game selling!

With regard to the dwarf ballista he described it as drawing a line from weapon to shot target and it denying shooting across the line. Like throwing up a shield that would need to be outflanked to shoot or you need to go into combat to get at them.


You can absolutely tell the Laketown houses are all made from a kit. As I said on the SBG forum, the balcony/railing on one building, is clearly repurposed as a fence around a different building in several pictures.

Looks like an awesome kit, and I suspect as a bone thrown to fans, it will be about $40 USD, so $32 or so with typical discounts.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 16:03:39


Post by: Herzlos


Tremble wrote:

He (and the whole team) have real enthusiasim for bringing the game back and they even mentioned a longing to bring back the War of the Ring in the future but stressed everything is based on the game selling!


War Of The Ring is the one box I regret not buying before they went OOP. That'd be amazing.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/17 16:21:01


Post by: judgedoug


 Hellfury wrote:
They would return to the material they were LAST cast in.
Not many metal models were left to look forward to.

But then again, there were a lot of models that were out of production by the time the failcrap business be an, so there is hope in that loop hole for a few assorted old models. Not sure what consolation that is however since the out of production models weren't really major needs.


Uh... many armies are unplayable right now because of out of production models. Corsair Arbalesters, Foot Knights of Dol Amroth, Mahud King + Blowpipes! Tons and tons more!
One of the surprise re-releases at Warhammer Fest was the Shade model, cast in metal, which has been out of production for a few years, and was selling for anywhere from $50-$100 on ebay. Now you'll actually be able to play an Angmar army.
And the Scouring of the Shire set, re-released in metal, which you basically need if you want to play a Hobbit army.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tremble wrote:
I spoke to Adam Troke about the Lake Town house at W/Fest and it is designed to be fully modular. The bigger set is all made from combining multiple houses and is not just a custom studio thing.


Oh, excellent, that is fantastic to hear. Thanks!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/18 17:08:18


Post by: mdauben


 judgedoug wrote:
No. Redone, with 30 new scenarios, and new army lists to cover all the armies and units that were never produced. It replaces and upgrades and updates the out-of-print Desolation of Smaug sourcebook and the Battle of Five Armies PDF.

Sigh. I'm actually sorry to hear that. I don't really need yet another $80-90 hardcover rulebook for this game. I'm also worried they won't be able to resist making more unnecessary changes to the rules again. If it was just a compilation of the Hobbit rulebook and the two DoS and BoFA supplements (which I already have) it would be a much easier decision to just skip it.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/18 19:45:59


Post by: judgedoug


 mdauben wrote:
 judgedoug wrote:
No. Redone, with 30 new scenarios, and new army lists to cover all the armies and units that were never produced. It replaces and upgrades and updates the out-of-print Desolation of Smaug sourcebook and the Battle of Five Armies PDF.

Sigh. I'm actually sorry to hear that. I don't really need yet another $80-90 hardcover rulebook for this game. I'm also worried they won't be able to resist making more unnecessary changes to the rules again. If it was just a compilation of the Hobbit rulebook and the two DoS and BoFA supplements (which I already have) it would be a much easier decision to just skip it.


I'm definitely not sorry to hear it, as the Desolation of Smaug supplement is sorely lacking in content and the Battle of Five Armies pdf is a joke. And it sure would be nice to have profiles for some of those five armies, which we don't even have yet.

From what I understand, It's not a rulebook, it's a journeybook of sorts that covers all of the Hobbit films. The new rulebook is at some point after this one and will just be the core rules and called Middle Earth SBG, with a single Hobbit supplement (this one) and a single Lord of the Rings supplement (a compilation of the out of print journeybooks)


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/19 07:44:50


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


Is War of the Ring not for sale then? I don't think it was that long ago that I bought my copy. 18 months?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/19 08:04:49


Post by: Slinky


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Is War of the Ring not for sale then? I don't think it was that long ago that I bought my copy. 18 months?


No, seems to have been expunged fully from the GW site.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/19 08:36:01


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 ShaneTB wrote:
Made those ruins last night. £18 was very reasonable.
Spoiler:





The Ruins are back?! That is a great kit!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ketara wrote:
There's more.






Oh my land, these look great.

They'd make for a great slum/shanty town too.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/19 13:03:21


Post by: jSewell


Those new dwarves look lovely. If they make models for the ram riders, I'll be sold on getting at least some of them


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/21 11:03:53


Post by: Paradigm


Rereleases are here! This week, Boromir and Gothmog on foot and mounted make a return, alongside the Kingdoms of Men and Mordor sourcebooks:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/The-Hobbit?N=102297+4294967072&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat410002-flat


I've started a thread down in the LotR forum to keep a list of what's released and when for reference.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/21 14:50:44


Post by: Davor


 Paradigm wrote:
Rereleases are here! This week, Boromir and Gothmog on foot and mounted make a return, alongside the Kingdoms of Men and Mordor sourcebooks:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/The-Hobbit?N=102297+4294967072&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat410002-flat


I've started a thread down in the LotR forum to keep a list of what's released and when for reference.


Question now is, do we buy the books or not? With not knowing what is going on, these can be obsolete just like how my 6th edition rules of 40K became obsolete in less than 3 months of purchase. Not knowing what is going is, is scary especially in making purchases. Gw is going two steps forward, but now are taking one step back. First with the AoS app and now GW releasing paper books that might not be valid in a few months.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/21 16:39:05


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


They've said the books will remain valid, its just that the next year will hold big compliation, archival edition books. The points, they confirmed, wouldn't change, and these aren't rule books, they're just the army lists. The big books should see the small errata items included.

Adam has said repeatedly that buying these books is a safe choice.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/21 19:12:29


Post by: Davor


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
They've said the books will remain valid, its just that the next year will hold big compliation, archival edition books. The points, they confirmed, wouldn't change, and these aren't rule books, they're just the army lists. The big books should see the small errata items included.

Adam has said repeatedly that buying these books is a safe choice.


I really hope so. But until I can get an official statement from GW, I just can't believe this because of GW previous practices. It's what 1/2 year away or less. Time will tell.

Now does anyone know if you can only buy this through Forge World or will my local shop be able to order LotR product just like now?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/21 19:20:35


Post by: Paradigm


The two models rereleased today are GW only, so you can order them from their site or (I think) order them in to a GW store, but not from an indepentant store. The books look like they'll be generally avaialble as they don't have the 'Direct Only' marker.

Honestly, the books are worth buying if you want to play. Any update will be to the core rules (and probably not that likely to change much), the 'There and Back Again' book is simply to cover the three Hobbit films... I don't think I've heard about anything else on the horizon, if there is it'll simply be compilations and additions rather than replacements.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/21 21:04:03


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Some people just want to hold on to the narrative that GW is evil, and always has to be, because they had some suspect years. Of course these books are a safe purchase... the guy helming the game said so at an official event... how much more official does one need? :-p

Meanwhile, in the US most stores can stock the web-exclusives but do so at a much reduced discount. My FLGS just said they could order the books and Boromir, but only at 5% off, to me.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 09:55:55


Post by: tneva82


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Some people just want to hold on to the narrative that GW is evil, and always has to be, because they had some suspect years. Of course these books are a safe purchase... the guy helming the game said so at an official event... how much more official does one need? :-p

Meanwhile, in the US most stores can stock the web-exclusives but do so at a much reduced discount. My FLGS just said they could order the books and Boromir, but only at 5% off, to me.


Well we ARE talking about company that vehemently denied they are going to rerelease space hulk literally weeks until they announced they will rerelease it...

So I can't blame people for not be "let's spend our money instantly without second thought!" just because somebody from GW says something. Especially when said company has history of doing different things to what they have said.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 11:30:32


Post by: scarletsquig


Terrain is very interesting, if it's a good price and hard plastic, I'll go for it.

LotR terrain was always the best due to the designer not slathering it with the "Skull Brush" plugin for Zbrush.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 11:43:39


Post by: Ketara


tneva82 wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Some people just want to hold on to the narrative that GW is evil, and always has to be, because they had some suspect years. Of course these books are a safe purchase... the guy helming the game said so at an official event... how much more official does one need? :-p

Meanwhile, in the US most stores can stock the web-exclusives but do so at a much reduced discount. My FLGS just said they could order the books and Boromir, but only at 5% off, to me.


Well we ARE talking about company that vehemently denied they are going to rerelease space hulk literally weeks until they announced they will rerelease it...

So I can't blame people for not be "let's spend our money instantly without second thought!" just because somebody from GW says something. Especially when said company has history of doing different things to what they have said.


Put it this way. Having just invested money in a brand new print run of rulebooks, what do you think the odds are of them invalidating those rulebooks within three months and making them effective junk stock? Financially, it would make absolutely no sense for them.

The new book is literally just profiles and scenarios for the Hobbit. It is probably that another core rulebook called 'Middle Earth : SBG' and accompanying army sourcebooks will be released, but the rumours I've heard batted about all peg it at the end of next year at the earliest.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 12:21:32


Post by: MacMuckles


 Ketara wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Some people just want to hold on to the narrative that GW is evil, and always has to be, because they had some suspect years. Of course these books are a safe purchase... the guy helming the game said so at an official event... how much more official does one need? :-p

Meanwhile, in the US most stores can stock the web-exclusives but do so at a much reduced discount. My FLGS just said they could order the books and Boromir, but only at 5% off, to me.


Well we ARE talking about company that vehemently denied they are going to rerelease space hulk literally weeks until they announced they will rerelease it...

So I can't blame people for not be "let's spend our money instantly without second thought!" just because somebody from GW says something. Especially when said company has history of doing different things to what they have said.


Put it this way. Having just invested money in a brand new print run of rulebooks, what do you think the odds are of them invalidating those rulebooks within three months and making them effective junk stock? Financially, it would make absolutely no sense for them.


Isn't that exactly how the End Times books and the AoS launch played out ?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 12:47:34


Post by: ShaneTB


Has The Hobbit section on the GW store always been there?

If not, it's there now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I painted those ruins up:
Spoiler:



Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 12:49:11


Post by: Bottle


The lake town house looks amazing! I hope it's a plastic kit. Could be great for Empire players too :-)


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 13:14:29


Post by: Slinky


Do those statues come with the ruins? Nice paintjob!


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 14:29:40


Post by: judgedoug


 ShaneTB wrote:
Has The Hobbit section on the GW store always been there?

If not, it's there now.


Since before the first film's release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 scarletsquig wrote:
Terrain is very interesting, if it's a good price and hard plastic, I'll go for it. .


Both the Ruins of Osgiliath and Laketown terrain is plastic; and Osgiliath has had a price decrease. Even at full price it was one of the best terrain kits available from anyone.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 14:58:49


Post by: tneva82


MacMuckles wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Some people just want to hold on to the narrative that GW is evil, and always has to be, because they had some suspect years. Of course these books are a safe purchase... the guy helming the game said so at an official event... how much more official does one need? :-p

Meanwhile, in the US most stores can stock the web-exclusives but do so at a much reduced discount. My FLGS just said they could order the books and Boromir, but only at 5% off, to me.


Well we ARE talking about company that vehemently denied they are going to rerelease space hulk literally weeks until they announced they will rerelease it...

So I can't blame people for not be "let's spend our money instantly without second thought!" just because somebody from GW says something. Especially when said company has history of doing different things to what they have said.


Put it this way. Having just invested money in a brand new print run of rulebooks, what do you think the odds are of them invalidating those rulebooks within three months and making them effective junk stock? Financially, it would make absolutely no sense for them.


Isn't that exactly how the End Times books and the AoS launch played out ?


Pretty much for the End Times. You were expected to buy books that would be invalidated within few months anyway So yeah "would they invalidate books they sell right away?" isn't most convincing arqument for company that has history of designing brand new books which were designed to be invalidated within months of release...

(and does GW do printing on their own? If yes reprinting couple copies of books with design done is no real expense)


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 15:31:42


Post by: Ketara


Not quite the same re: End Times. There, they were launching a massive general overhaul of a main product line. In order to sell the models before the rules elimination (and without leaking that it was going to happen), the models /had to have rules, and there was the knowledge that there was a solid corps of warhammer players who would buy just to keep using those models in their old-style warhammer games. You also had fluff included, which helps to boost the ability to sell books afterwards (not leaving them purely as junk stock).

None of that applies with the LOTR armybooks. Not only that, there are other additional factors working against it. They're effectively relaunching an existing failed (in their eyes) product line and seeing how it fares over the course of a couple of years. To write up new army books for everything would require additional investment (which they'll want to keep to a minimum in case it founders), and if they did it three months after a reprint, would guarantee that the first reprint would be wasted investment.

tl;dr GW makes a lot of stupid decisions, but this would literally be the financial equivalent of them setting fire to money for the fun of it. GW can be dumb, but never that dumb. They always have a business case for their decisions, even if it's a bad decision. And there's literally no business case for doing a fresh set of armybooks three months after reprinting the old ones, because you simply have to say, 'let's do it a year afterwards instead' and you automatically have a better business case.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 16:11:28


Post by: tneva82


 Ketara wrote:
Not quite the same re: End Times. There, they were launching a massive general overhaul of a main product line. In order to sell the models before the rules elimination (and without leaking that it was going to happen), the models /had to have rules, and there was the knowledge that there was a solid corps of warhammer players who would buy just to keep using those models in their old-style warhammer games. You also had fluff included, which helps to boost the ability to sell books afterwards (not leaving them purely as junk stock).

None of that applies with the LOTR armybooks. Not only that, there are other additional factors working against it. They're effectively relaunching an existing failed (in their eyes) product line and seeing how it fares over the course of a couple of years. To write up new army books for everything would require additional investment (which they'll want to keep to a minimum in case it founders), and if they did it three months after a reprint, would guarantee that the first reprint would be wasted investment.

tl;dr GW makes a lot of stupid decisions, but this would literally be the financial equivalent of them setting fire to money for the fun of it. GW can be dumb, but never that dumb. They always have a business case for their decisions, even if it's a bad decision. And there's literally no business case for doing a fresh set of armybooks three months after reprinting the old ones, because you simply have to say, 'let's do it a year afterwards instead' and you automatically have a better business case.


You assume reprinting existing books is major financial investement...It is not.

Designing End times books to be invalidated(which buyers of books were already aware of when buying...) is lot more expensive proposition. They were gambling a lot that the customers would buy books they would know are useless junk in few months.

They also don't consider players who don't move on to new version so that arqument is moot. And you don't need expensive to produce books to have rules out anyway.

So overall I can't blame anybody to not be willing to throw without any concern money to company that has known track record of doing what you say they wouldn't do. They can and have done that in the past. Unless you have absolute essential need to have it NOW it's not a problem to wait a bit more to ensure you aren't burning your money.

(and GW has done plenty of burning money down decisions in the past so...)


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 16:45:02


Post by: Da krimson barun


So happy about this. I hated 40k but I could only find two other SBG players. Now drums once more shall sound sound in the deep, banners shall be raised,shields shall be- WAIT DID THEY SAY FORGEWORLD?! well I'm not so sure now...does anybody know if the game will be back in stores though?


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 17:15:34


Post by: Ketara


tneva82 wrote:


You assume reprinting existing books is major financial investement...It is not.


It's A financial investment. No, it's not like opening ten new stores or paying Kirby's dividends, but it still costs money. And GW is a company that doesn't even include order slips when making deliveries to other parties they're so tight.

Designing End times books to be invalidated(which buyers of books were already aware of when buying...) is lot more expensive proposition. They were gambling a lot that the customers would buy books they would know are useless junk in few months.


When End Times launched, people didn't know what the end result was going to be. Age of Sigmar came out of the left field somewhat.

They also don't consider players who don't move on to new version so that arqument is moot. And you don't need expensive to produce books to have rules out anyway.


You missed the point. The point being that there was still a potential sales target because Warhammer wasn't being replaced with a slightly updated version of Warhammer, but an entirely new game system. What you're talking about would be more akin to them releasing a new War of the Ring. Age of Sigmar didn't invalidate the previous rules for anyone who still liked to play Warhammer Fantasy Battles, meaning that you could still potentially shift left over stock.

Unlike in this scenario, where if you release a new Kingdoms of Men army book with tweaked stats, there is literally no conceivable audience that will buy it, because the entire playerbase would want the new one and not the old.

I know you want to believe GW is made up of monkeys at typewriters (or the intellectual equivalent thereof), but they're really not. Everything they do has a solid reason and business case behind it. The outcome might not be one you want (more profits for them instead of a better game for you), or it might not work out (because not every business decision is a success in any industry), but that doesn't mean that reason/business case is not there.


Middle-earth SBG - Rerelease of lots of minis @ 2016/05/22 17:25:59


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


As excited as I want to be, one of the big things (IMO) that killed The Hobbit was pricing.... if the new releases are going to be resin and at FW prices, I'm sort of expecting this to flounder the same way The Hobbit did.