So Sunday I am playing at local FLGS 1500 pt tourny. I bring my hunter contingent with a stormsurge, but no riptide wing.I didn't want to cheese it up too hard, but still have something to deal with what I see in my local meta.

First game is against 3 knights, and it was a hard fought game, but I pull off the win. The opponent on the table next to me is playing his game, while still complaining about Tau cheese the whole time. He won his game, so we end up having to play each other based on points.

Turn 1 he moves his 2 land raiders and rhino up, pops smoke and says go. I then proceed to move up and start blasting. I do some points to one land raider, I drop anchors on my storm surge, but nothing died. Turn 2 he moves up, disembarks, and then announces tank shock on my anchored stormsurge. I then Death or Glory it, with the D weapon, roll a 6 and the LR explodes violently and he then rage quits.

I mean he packed up, while in charging distance to my stormsurge with all his AP2 weilding termies, and was actually in a position to hurt me. He not only denied me points in the tournament, but denied the third game to his would be opponent as well. His opponent had to sit out the game, and was so bored that he fell asleep on the table watching our game. (the third game was actually quite exciting, I think he was just tired).

So is this normal behavior? I mean is seemed pretty poor form to me. He berated me, my army, and denied games to other players who came to play. This person actually has money and access to way more models than I do, so I am not sure why he would bring a force that can't compete(although in reality I was scared of his assaults). Why blame me because I just happened to pick an army, and practice with it enough to be good. I have seen tau get smacked by good players, so I don't think I can say that anyone who plays Tau should be rage quitted on.

IDK, I was just kind of taken back, and it ruined the tourny for me. Has this happened before to any of you?

Sounds like a total poor sport.

His land raider died. That's what they do in competitive games. Add on, as you say, he STILL had the means to junk punch your stormsurge with his thunderhammers, and he decided to go home and cry.

A tournament is not a pick up game or a friendly. While you don't have to bring a tough list, you damn well be ready to suck it up when someone else does.


Don't waste another minute thinking about it.

Edit: I saw a similar meltdown where the guy just quit on turn 2. "I can't handle that list!" and then proceeded to berate the other guy. I've actually played the other guy twice and found him to be an excellent opponent and a competent one. "No, you can't handle that list. However, there is no reason you should be a poor sport. This is a tournament, not a Candy Land LARP!"

If he was in range to tank shock an anchored Stormsurge then he should of just unloaded and murdered the thing in CC with the passengers inside. Honestly he should of been dancing for joy at you dropping anchor so close to danger instead of keeping the Stormsurge mobile and ready to stomp. Seems really silly to try some gimmick play and get salty when the D weapon kills the Land Raider. No offense but that was a huge throw on your part to drop anchor and he just threw the game right back. Also he can't disembark and tank shock with that transport in the same turn so what he did was not a valid action. Even if he could losing a Land Raider (while extremely costly) is hardly the end of a game as its primary job is to get its contents from point A to B in one piece. If it was a Crusader then it was all but useless at that point as its weapon loadout is basically junk.

I can be a salty player when things don't go well and its an unfortunate side effect of my strong competitive drive but my goal is to always make sure my opponent is having fun and being respectful (I get frustrated at the game, not the player). If I was in a tournament I wouldn't rage quit the whole thing because it ruins the other players experience in the tournament. If I do concede the game I would take the time saved to calm myself and continue on in the tournament just as if I lost that match (if its not single elimination). What that person did is extremely immature and a bad sport. Not even sure why he was openly upset at Tau before even playing against them.

Well it isn't hard to find douche bags in a tournament. I had excellent time during my losses and I had terrible time during my wins and vice versa.
It has happened to me that I met an opponent that I lost to and he was very annoying about his win making various comments and staff while also the dice was favoring him.
Next tournament I met him and proceed to take him apart in 3 rounds. Instead of sucking it up like I did he was whining and finally rage quit on turn 4. I couldn't care less!

Ill just shrug it off then I guess. I mean it wasn't an unbeatable storm surge/riptide wing spam list. It was totally beatable. Skyhammer owned me, thanks to bad interceptor roles.

Just sucked for that last guy, felt bad for him.

Poor sportsmanship. Having seen this in our tourneys here, and we had lots of tourneys. I guess its a phenomenon you cannot avoid. Dont care.

Sounds like a loser, should be barred from future tournament participation because their presence is a waste of time and a fun vortex.

 redleger wrote:
and then announces tank shock on my anchored stormsurge. I then Death or Glory it, with the D weapon, roll a 6 and the LR explodes violently and he then rage quits.

Bit of a segway but how did you D him with death or glory? You need a markerlight hit on the target to convert the missile to D and I don't see how you'd have on in his movement phase unless he tankshocked a marker drone or something.

On topic, as a TO I always tell attendees at the end that it is you all in this room that play in an event that makes it a success. And yes it actually happened to me a couple weeks ago before the game even started and it does tarnish the day for sure.

 winterman wrote:

 redleger wrote:
and then announces tank shock on my anchored stormsurge. I then Death or Glory it, with the D weapon, roll a 6 and the LR explodes violently and he then rage quits.

Bit of a segway but how did you D him with death or glory? You need a markerlight hit on the target to convert the missile to D and I don't see how you'd have on in his movement phase unless he tankshocked a marker drone or something.

On topic, as a TO I always tell attendees at the end that it is you all in this room that play in an event that makes it a success. And yes it actually happened to me a couple weeks ago before the game even started and it does tarnish the day for sure.

I run the short range main weapon that turns into D strength at 10in or less. I rolled my one dice, got a 6 and it went kablooey.

Sad but sometimes those poor sports show up and ruin a day. Sorry you had to deal with that bullgakkery.

How did his quitting deny you points? Shouldn't you have gotten max points for a concession?

Poor sportmanship ruins casual games as well. There is always TFG that has to win no matter the senenio. Poor gamesman that should take up shooting fish in a barrel.

Sad to hear that happen, but on a side note You can not declare tank shock/Ram if you have disembarked/embarked a unit that turn. I believe you can find the exact wording in the BRB in the tank shock/Ram section of the book. If i'm wrong, sorry. I'm at work right now and i'm away from my BRB.

Sounds like a fairly typical poor loser. I don't understand why you didn't receive points for a victory though - that's bad Tournament organization.

 redleger wrote:
So Sunday I am playing at local FLGS 1500 pt tourny. I bring my hunter contingent with a stormsurge, but no riptide wing.I didn't want to cheese it up too hard, but still have something to deal with what I see in my local meta.

First game is against 3 knights, and it was a hard fought game, but I pull off the win. The opponent on the table next to me is playing his game, while still complaining about Tau cheese the whole time. He won his game, so we end up having to play each other based on points.

Turn 1 he moves his 2 land raiders and rhino up, pops smoke and says go. I then proceed to move up and start blasting. I do some points to one land raider, I drop anchors on my storm surge, but nothing died. Turn 2 he moves up, disembarks, and then announces tank shock on my anchored stormsurge. I then Death or Glory it, with the D weapon, roll a 6 and the LR explodes violently and he then rage quits.

I mean he packed up, while in charging distance to my stormsurge with all his AP2 weilding termies, and was actually in a position to hurt me. He not only denied me points in the tournament, but denied the third game to his would be opponent as well. His opponent had to sit out the game, and was so bored that he fell asleep on the table watching our game. (the third game was actually quite exciting, I think he was just tired).

So is this normal behavior? I mean is seemed pretty poor form to me. He berated me, my army, and denied games to other players who came to play. This person actually has money and access to way more models than I do, so I am not sure why he would bring a force that can't compete(although in reality I was scared of his assaults). Why blame me because I just happened to pick an army, and practice with it enough to be good. I have seen tau get smacked by good players, so I don't think I can say that anyone who plays Tau should be rage quitted on.

IDK, I was just kind of taken back, and it ruined the tourny for me. Has this happened before to any of you?

If he rage quits you should moon him and agree that his pathetic play style had no chance. Remind him that in other less civilized times when someone fails as spectacularly as he did, they would fall on their swords to avoid the incredible shame to their family.

Well, you could think that you have maybe given this rather angry fellow pause in playing for a while which may be a boon to the general community.

Some of my fondest memories of gaming is getting a black eye like that Landraider blowing up and proceeding to pull out a win anyway.
The good thing is those who cannot take a setback with good grace and proceed anyway, that guy will never learn how to get out of a tight spot.

What you observed is pure selfish behavior.
You were all there for his enjoyment and it was utterly shocking you did not know your place.

I do find it very surprising someone with that attitude to enter something that competitive: one way or another you will get hammered.

Pay no mind.
There will be more like that fellow, good thing is they usually give it a pass rather than play you again: it is a blessing.

Though I think there's something to be said for it being bad game design and a Negative Play Experience when you simply roll a d6 and someone's big nice thing gets removed from play, that isn't and wasn't your fault, and probably shouldn't have been taken out on you by the player in question.

MVBrandt wrote:
Though I think there's something to be said for it being bad game design and a Negative Play Experience when you simply roll a d6 and someone's big nice thing gets removed from play, that isn't and wasn't your fault, and probably shouldn't have been taken out on you by the player in question.

I've had that happen to me; an Eldar player shot his Wraithknight's D-cannons at my Stormsurge and 6'ed it out on the very first turn of the game. I didn't rage quit or call him a cheater. It happens. It could easily have been the other way around. There is simply no excuse for poor sportsman ship. I mean, we're all supposed to be adults, right?

I have had an opponent rage quit on me once. It might have been at that same tournament as the above incident, but I'm not sure. My opponent was playing Necrons and had a nasty deathstar unit with a bunch of Lychguard and some characters, including that relic thing that lets them deep strike (kind of like Gate of Infinity). He attempted to drop the unit behind my Stormsurge, but he rolled a big scatter and went off the board. He then rolled a 1 on the mishap table, meaning the entire 800-odd point blob was just, well, dead. Instant First Blood and Slay the Warlord. My opponent immediately conceded the game. I used the term "rage quit" kind of loosely, as the guy didn't go and make a total ass of himself (he even shook my hand), but it was obvious that he was pretty unhappy about losing his deathstar, and he did leave the tournament (fortunately no one had to sit out a game because the TO was already having to step in with his ringer army to have an even number of players, so he just stepped out and we went from there).

Sad but can happen. Tau and Eldar are two of the armies that can totally shoot people off the board, even from Turn 1, so I definitely understand where him getting upset can come from.

That being said, I would've played it out unless I had absolutely no chance to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
Though I think there's something to be said for it being bad game design and a Negative Play Experience when you simply roll a d6 and someone's big nice thing gets removed from play, that isn't and wasn't your fault, and probably shouldn't have been taken out on you by the player in question.

I've had that happen to me; an Eldar player shot his Wraithknight's D-cannons at my Stormsurge and 6'ed it out on the very first turn of the game. I didn't rage quit or call him a cheater. It happens. It could easily have been the other way around. There is simply no excuse for poor sportsman ship. I mean, we're all supposed to be adults, right?

I have had an opponent rage quit on me once. It might have been at that same tournament as the above incident, but I'm not sure. My opponent was playing Necrons and had a nasty deathstar unit with a bunch of Lychguard and some characters, including that relic thing that lets them deep strike (kind of like Gate of Infinity). He attempted to drop the unit behind my Stormsurge, but he rolled a big scatter and went off the board. He then rolled a 1 on the mishap table, meaning the entire 800-odd point blob was just, well, dead. Instant First Blood and Slay the Warlord. My opponent immediately conceded the game. I used the term "rage quit" kind of loosely, as the guy didn't go and make a total ass of himself (he even shook my hand), but it was obvious that he was pretty unhappy about losing his deathstar, and he did leave the tournament (fortunately no one had to sit out a game because the TO was already having to step in with his ringer army to have an even number of players, so he just stepped out and we went from there).

How did he annihilate your Stormsurge? A 6 on a D weapon does 6+ D6 wounds against GMCs, which you get a 4+ FNP on.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Sad but can happen. Tau and Eldar are two of the armies that can totally shoot people off the board, even from Turn 1, so I definitely understand where him getting upset can come from.

That being said, I would've played it out unless I had absolutely no chance to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
Though I think there's something to be said for it being bad game design and a Negative Play Experience when you simply roll a d6 and someone's big nice thing gets removed from play, that isn't and wasn't your fault, and probably shouldn't have been taken out on you by the player in question.

I've had that happen to me; an Eldar player shot his Wraithknight's D-cannons at my Stormsurge and 6'ed it out on the very first turn of the game. I didn't rage quit or call him a cheater. It happens. It could easily have been the other way around. There is simply no excuse for poor sportsman ship. I mean, we're all supposed to be adults, right?

I have had an opponent rage quit on me once. It might have been at that same tournament as the above incident, but I'm not sure. My opponent was playing Necrons and had a nasty deathstar unit with a bunch of Lychguard and some characters, including that relic thing that lets them deep strike (kind of like Gate of Infinity). He attempted to drop the unit behind my Stormsurge, but he rolled a big scatter and went off the board. He then rolled a 1 on the mishap table, meaning the entire 800-odd point blob was just, well, dead. Instant First Blood and Slay the Warlord. My opponent immediately conceded the game. I used the term "rage quit" kind of loosely, as the guy didn't go and make a total ass of himself (he even shook my hand), but it was obvious that he was pretty unhappy about losing his deathstar, and he did leave the tournament (fortunately no one had to sit out a game because the TO was already having to step in with his ringer army to have an even number of players, so he just stepped out and we went from there).

How did he annihilate your Stormsurge? A 6 on a D weapon does 6+ D6 wounds against GMCs, which you get a 4+ FNP on.

Except the fact that FNP cant be taken against strength D

Sqauwky wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Sad but can happen. Tau and Eldar are two of the armies that can totally shoot people off the board, even from Turn 1, so I definitely understand where him getting upset can come from.

That being said, I would've played it out unless I had absolutely no chance to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
Though I think there's something to be said for it being bad game design and a Negative Play Experience when you simply roll a d6 and someone's big nice thing gets removed from play, that isn't and wasn't your fault, and probably shouldn't have been taken out on you by the player in question.

I've had that happen to me; an Eldar player shot his Wraithknight's D-cannons at my Stormsurge and 6'ed it out on the very first turn of the game. I didn't rage quit or call him a cheater. It happens. It could easily have been the other way around. There is simply no excuse for poor sportsman ship. I mean, we're all supposed to be adults, right?

I have had an opponent rage quit on me once. It might have been at that same tournament as the above incident, but I'm not sure. My opponent was playing Necrons and had a nasty deathstar unit with a bunch of Lychguard and some characters, including that relic thing that lets them deep strike (kind of like Gate of Infinity). He attempted to drop the unit behind my Stormsurge, but he rolled a big scatter and went off the board. He then rolled a 1 on the mishap table, meaning the entire 800-odd point blob was just, well, dead. Instant First Blood and Slay the Warlord. My opponent immediately conceded the game. I used the term "rage quit" kind of loosely, as the guy didn't go and make a total ass of himself (he even shook my hand), but it was obvious that he was pretty unhappy about losing his deathstar, and he did leave the tournament (fortunately no one had to sit out a game because the TO was already having to step in with his ringer army to have an even number of players, so he just stepped out and we went from there).

How did he annihilate your Stormsurge? A 6 on a D weapon does 6+ D6 wounds against GMCs, which you get a 4+ FNP on.

Except the fact that FNP cant be taken against strength D

Even for a GMC? Apologize for the question, never run GMC creatures

I thought anchored stormsurge was destroyed when it suffered shock.

FNP rule itself clearly says no FNP when facing the D.

Frazzled wrote:
If he rage quits you should moon him and agree that his pathetic play style had no chance. Remind him that in other less civilized times when someone fails as spectacularly as he did, they would fall on their swords to avoid the incredible shame to their family.

I giggled...

Not the norm. People get salty when someone 1 shots a nice toy be it D or just an explode result.. either way it sucks but packing up and quitting the tourney is a reaction I personally have never seen and I go to 10+ tourneys a year.

Shrug it off.. you play Tau so you are going to get worse reactions from people I would imagine. Tau are the chosen ones for rage at the table.

Be sure to talk to all yer buds and the TO. Get the guy warned by the TO that he shapes up or gets banned. Once more, and not another.

I have had a couple dudes quit turn 1 in 4 years of 3+ GTs a year, and 11+ plus RTTs a year.

One, basically a Rage Quitter that the TO and I talked into playing anyway. This was Brawl in the Fall 2014. Since then, he moved out of Calif, so glad to not see Sirus Chappel anymore (yep, I will out the guy). He didn't want to play against my 6e Serpent Spam when he had Mephy, Chapter Master beat stick (onna bike with buddies), with 2 Contemptor Dreads, and 4+ AV13 Baal Preds. Pot calling the kettle black.



The other guy, got hit Turn 1, pretty hard and I forgive. Sunday morning, Round 4 of a GT (BAO 2013). The Kill Point mission, I meltagun blew up his Land Raider from a Drop Pod crew of SW. Then, with Long Fang PlasmaCannons, erased the Command crew, with 2 ICs in its 'foot print'. Thus:

First Blood - 1 point
LR - 1 point
HQ - 1 point
HQ - 1 point
Cmd Squad - 1 point

He mighta been hung over, or just over whelmed. Either way, he was really demoralized. Polite though. I let it go such that I don't remember his name, other than he's a buddy of Jy2.


So, once a year? Once every two years? Shrug it off, disparage him over beers with *good* sports-buds and keep on playing.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I thought anchored stormsurge was destroyed when it suffered shock.

If the Death or Glory fails.

This isn't 'normal behaviour'. I've seen it happen all of once in ten years, you're not likely to see it much more.

(If you do see it frequently something's wrong and you could stand to reexamine your choice of playgroup/venue)

To the title of this thread. Preach, baby, preach.

In the last two years, I have passed on more tournaments that I'd have usually signed up for because of an absolute whiny Eeyore that I played against and tabled during a game at Acon two years ago. The game was effectively over by the end of my second turn, with only mopping up to do, but for the rest of the game it became bitchfest. I should have enjoyed the victory as my army finally did exactly what it was supposed to do, but I literally just wanted to get it done with once my opponent showed his true colors in the face defeat.

The only bonus was the fact that it was the last game of the tournament and I didn't have to see or hear him after that.

Sorry you also got to enjoy the agony of someone else's defeat.

Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

I'd mark that as a point in favor of 40k and similar games. You're supposed to be polite and sportsmanlike.

Technically, you're supposed to be in every game, but that doesn't stop them lol...

Depends on how competitive you want to be.
It is a relaxing thing for me and utterly pointless to get worked up in a negative way: it is not the venue for that outlet.

Competition is at it's best with people I don't like.
That is the PERFECT time to get in touch with your no-holds-barred inner jerk. It is your duty as a (normally) nice person to lay a smack-down on those who truly need it to grow as people.

I have a big grin on my face as I typed that. I have a big red button with bullies, I like getting in the way of those that people usually avoid. I think that is when I would be "that guy" but it only happens with the most confrontational types.

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Well, supposedly that's what led to this. xD

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

 feeder wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

It's all opinions. I'd rather play a game and both players have a good time (As much as they can, without us making each other miserable) than go into a game and make someone feel like gak by the end of it. Tournament or otherwise. You call it 'skill', I call it unnecessary and douchebaggery (When used outside of playful banter)

Like I said, I don't get enjoyment out of making my opponent mad or upset.

True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

I seriously hate rage-quitters. Luck is a fickle thing. Sometimes you have it, other times it pees in your water glass.

I was playing a campaign at the local gaming store back in late 3rd edition. Every game you played got you an advantage in all remaining games. Winning or loosing simply determined how good that advantage was.

My opponent in the first game rolled for our mission, and selected the mission that screwed me the most, while making his job super easy. Ever try moving 40 footslogging Necron warriors 36 to 48 inches in 6 turns? On his first turn he moves up, and either misses or fails to penetrate my Monolith with 3 Broadsides (old-school rules, so strength 10) and his Hammerhead. Oh my turn 1 I tear him apart, but it doesn't matter if I can't make it off the board and he'll win.

He still rage quit then and there, and didn't return for 3 weeks. He showed up for the final 2 weeks of the campaign only to complain that he had no bonuses because he hadn't played any previous games.

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

To be honest. I'm pretty bad when it comes to smack talk anyway. In the end, I often end up smack talking myself over anything due to my rather crap-tastic rolling abilities :p Though it's been a while since I played (Still haven't finished building my Skitarri/Cult Mech army yet, and used to play Orks, so I suppose crap rolling wasn't hard to achieve :p)

 Byte wrote:
Poor sportmanship ruins casual games as well. There is always TFG that has to win no matter the senenio. Poor gamesman that should take up shooting fish in a barrel.

Oh yes, I agree and painfully know it: Like 3 years ago I started into the hobby, bought DV and a box of chaos marines. Didn't convert anything to the other army as I wanted to play both of them. I went to a GW store and said I wanted to play, and that it was my very first game and wanted to have a fun time. A fellow heard us and offered to play... cue in my black legion army, very your dudes (chosen, hellbrutes, quite a few upgrades fo CQC), facing an unbound list where he brought the sniper formation, the veteran formation (basically sternguard out of the ass) and tigurius with a unit of invisible grav-centurions. I kille a single model before being wiped out. He then went on to say smuggly that he had barely won (very sarcastically) and "mixed" our tape measures (since mine was brand new and SOMEHOW it was utterly battered, the tape was crooked, had blue and gold paint in some small spots... just add) but vehemently denied it afterwards.
Oh and that time where a guard player (same GW store, never going back there) whom had started doing daemonology spam (he said: it's to cover my army's weakness, and it can bone me... yeah, get fething allies then) first dropped his summoned bloodletters with a smug face and declared he'd charge my squad. I proceeded to open him the rulebook and explain him why he couldn't: he inmediately condeded and made a face that was hilarious.

I have enough problems gaming with smeg heads in my own home!!!!!!
It does not help that GW creates moron gamers because of its model ranges. Think about it..mega powerful tanks/knights and awful Tau stuff. These models either sit there and fire powerful guns or steam up the board and cant be hurt. You all buy this stuff so your oponants will have to to!!!!!!
I play with lots of average stuff like Kroot (remember those, probably not) and a made up stuff like Beastmen for my Chaos warband which is useless.....ie i game like it was 2001.
Man up and deal with it or take up Angry birds.

I know saw a game once at a tournament where a SM player infiltrated 2 units of devs (warlord trait) onto a nice bit of cover out of line of sight but lost the first turn, opposing player moved his interceptors (12" move) up to them and preceded to charge - other player says you cant charge on first turn, was proved wrong and asked to start the game again (this was about 1 hour in as the player wrong was very picky with his deployment and took 20 mins deploying a pred) when the other guy refused he packed up and walked off - never to be seen again.

 feeder wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

Or its just acting like a rude person.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 feeder wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

Or its just acting like a rude person.

Quite spot on. I'm fine with banter but honestly if you need someone to lose focus and not do his best then that means you acknlowledge you have no hope to truly beat him and thus you're inferior to him.
Also it makes look you like a jerk.

If trash talk is part of a well rounded skillset, does that mean that offending the other player so much that they pack up and leave is also a viable tactic? Maximum points for a concession, after all.

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

I met some great players at the few tournaments I've attended, and a few donkey-caves. Among the great players, none were trash talkers. They were laid back, smart players that I'd gladly play again. The few trash talkers and That Guy I've met, I'd never play again if i met them in a store.

The gaming community is pretty tight knit. As PanserLeader said, don't make a bad reputation for yourself.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

Rubbish - its a valid skill in a well rounded skillset. Sledge the opponent and put 'em off - good enough for Wellington!

 axisofentropy wrote:
How did his quitting deny you points? Shouldn't you have gotten max points for a concession?

Depends on the tournament rules. Some tournaments just count forfeiting or tabling your opponent as just the game having ended (like you finished the final turn) so you would still score based of the game state when it ended.

Wow, I don't know what I'd do if someone packed up on me. If they were being rude, maybe just let them... but I'd be feeling crappy and insulted.
I have coaxed salty players to finish their games and just chat with me before, in other systems.
"Nah come on, it's all good practice for playing other people, I'm not going to blast you for it."

Smack talk is not a big thing in the scene I'm in. I'd personally just ask folk to calm down a little if they started. I've travelled a long way and came to play some fun games in a short period, it's because I want to enjoy that time together, not have someone try and irritate me for 90mins.

After winning a good number of 40k local tournaments in the last few years, i've decided to try stepping up to more competitive events in 2017. With that in mind, i've thought a lot about how I would love to earn a reputation like that of Alex Fennel. Talk about a high water-mark we should aspire to being.

Competitively Alex is considered ultra competitive, and often advances the meta of 40k locally and elsewhere, ALL while being known as one of the most pleasant, respectful, and generally kind people you're likely to play 40k against.

I'd always rather emulate that than be a top-tier trash talker who maybe psyches out opponents, but has to live with being a gak-lord while doing so.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Wow, I don't know what I'd do if someone packed up on me. If they were being rude, maybe just let them... but I'd be feeling crappy and insulted.
I have coaxed salty players to finish their games and just chat with me before, in other systems.
"Nah come on, it's all good practice for playing other people, I'm not going to blast you for it."

Smack talk is not a big thing in the scene I'm in. I'd personally just ask folk to calm down a little if they started. I've travelled a long way and came to play some fun games in a short period, it's because I want to enjoy that time together, not have someone try and irritate me for 90mins.

Agreed. Trash talking with the intent of getting someone worked up is just a person being toxic. That's not good for your image, the community, or the target of the toxicity.

That said, I throw jibes at my friends, and I talk trash about my own models performance sometimes. I talk gak for both sides of the table, for entertainment. If I let a little slip against an opponent I don't know too well and they act like it's not appreciated, I apologize.

BossJakadakk wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Wow, I don't know what I'd do if someone packed up on me. If they were being rude, maybe just let them... but I'd be feeling crappy and insulted.
I have coaxed salty players to finish their games and just chat with me before, in other systems.
"Nah come on, it's all good practice for playing other people, I'm not going to blast you for it."

Smack talk is not a big thing in the scene I'm in. I'd personally just ask folk to calm down a little if they started. I've travelled a long way and came to play some fun games in a short period, it's because I want to enjoy that time together, not have someone try and irritate me for 90mins.

Agreed. Trash talking with the intent of getting someone worked up is just a person being toxic. That's not good for your image, the community, or the target of the toxicity.

That said, I throw jibes at my friends, and I talk trash about my own models performance sometimes. I talk gak for both sides of the table, for entertainment. If I let a little slip against an opponent I don't know too well and they act like it's not appreciated, I apologize.

This is my approach. I love talking trash with my friends, but against a new person, I try to be polite, respectful, and fair.

I'll trash talk with a good friend, but against a stranger? That's just tacky. It's dudebro behavior at its worst.

Handling forfeits should always be a case by case basis. I've seen people throw a game early to deny their opponent a higher score, and I've seen people get matched up with a friend so the player with the lower tournament score forfeits to give his opponent max points. Both methods can be exploited. That's why TOs should judge each forfeit individually.

Funny how even to forfeit a game can be used to "game" the system. Competitive play at it's finest (or is that worst??).

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

Rubbish - its a valid skill in a well rounded skillset. Sledge the opponent and put 'em off - good enough for Wellington!

Even if one were to take that point as conceded, which it isn't, a culture of trash talking would lead to very ugly places. Where would it stop? Would we start throwing around ethnic slurs and sexual innuendos to throw off opposition? Purposely adopt mannerisms as offputting and disgusting to as many people as possible for a psychological edge? The possibilities for a-hole behavior in the name of "putting people off" are endless, and not great to contemplate, especially if we want tournaments to serve any kind of recruitment or community building purpose. Would a young player being told "hey kid, [perform vigorous fellatio on me]" in the name of psychological warfare want to attend another event?

No, this is not a path we should hurry down. Few hobbies do, even Call of Duty players tend to not go for it as much when they're on stream.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

Rubbish - its a valid skill in a well rounded skillset. Sledge the opponent and put 'em off - good enough for Wellington!

Even if one were to take that point as conceded, which it isn't, a culture of trash talking would lead to very ugly places. Where would it stop? Would we start throwing around ethnic slurs and sexual innuendos to throw off opposition? Purposely adopt mannerisms as offputting and disgusting to as many people as possible for a psychological edge? The possibilities for a-hole behavior in the name of "putting people off" are endless, and not great to contemplate, especially if we want tournaments to serve any kind of recruitment or community building purpose. Would a young player being told "hey kid, [perform vigorous fellatio on me]" in the name of psychological warfare want to attend another event?

No, this is not a path we should hurry down. Few hobbies do, even Call of Duty players tend to not go for it as much when they're on stream.

Do you know she's being sarcastic, don't you?

No, I don't *know* that for a fact, so why should I assume so?

Lord Kragan wrote:
Do you know she's being sarcastic, don't you?

Or trolling considering sarcasm is generally not stuck to with such a dogged perseverance if it is not otherwise clearly indicated as sarcasm.

 redleger wrote:
So Sunday I am playing at local FLGS 1500 pt tourny. I bring my hunter contingent with a stormsurge, but no riptide wing.I didn't want to cheese it up too hard, but still have something to deal with what I see in my local meta.

First game is against 3 knights, and it was a hard fought game, but I pull off the win. The opponent on the table next to me is playing his game, while still complaining about Tau cheese the whole time. He won his game, so we end up having to play each other based on points.

Turn 1 he moves his 2 land raiders and rhino up, pops smoke and says go. I then proceed to move up and start blasting. I do some points to one land raider, I drop anchors on my storm surge, but nothing died. Turn 2 he moves up, disembarks, and then announces tank shock on my anchored stormsurge. I then Death or Glory it, with the D weapon, roll a 6 and the LR explodes violently and he then rage quits.

I mean he packed up, while in charging distance to my stormsurge with all his AP2 weilding termies, and was actually in a position to hurt me. He not only denied me points in the tournament, but denied the third game to his would be opponent as well. His opponent had to sit out the game, and was so bored that he fell asleep on the table watching our game. (the third game was actually quite exciting, I think he was just tired).

So is this normal behavior? I mean is seemed pretty poor form to me. He berated me, my army, and denied games to other players who came to play. This person actually has money and access to way more models than I do, so I am not sure why he would bring a force that can't compete(although in reality I was scared of his assaults). Why blame me because I just happened to pick an army, and practice with it enough to be good. I have seen tau get smacked by good players, so I don't think I can say that anyone who plays Tau should be rage quitted on.

IDK, I was just kind of taken back, and it ruined the tourny for me. Has this happened before to any of you?

Im confused... how did he cost you points by quitting. Since he quit isnt that an automatic win for you? Forgive me I don't do tournaments.

Some tournaments do not award full points for a forfeit to prevent the meta game tactic of friends facing each other, and one forfeiting, to advance the other.

 adamsouza wrote:
Some tournaments do not award full points for a forfeit to prevent the meta game tactic of friends facing each other, and one forfeiting, to advance the other.

Paying a registration fee, travelling to the tourney, managing to draw a game vs a friend, and being willing take a dive to advance that friend is just another skill in a well rounded skillset.

No gak talking is a valid and important skill, It is used in real life quite often.

Think someone annoys you, you throw the first punsh your the agressor, a few well placed words and boom they become the agressor. All actions become self defense and admissable.

Being able to get an emotional reaction from someone with a few simple words is imprtant. It can male them follow your plan as if they where your own actions. Make them question their own actions or encourage them to follow through with something they may have questioned. All very valid and important things needed in any plan. Win the war of minds before a single punch is thrown and all that.

Plus only a kid or a simple-ton would get emptionaly invested with someone who they just met.

Insults can only be taken never given.

OgreChubbs wrote:
No gak talking is a valid and important skill, It is used in real life quite often.

Think someone annoys you, you throw the first punsh your the agressor, a few well placed words and boom they become the agressor. All actions become self defense and admissable.

Being able to get an emotional reaction from someone with a few simple words is imprtant. It can male them follow your plan as if they where your own actions. Make them question their own actions or encourage them to follow through with something they may have questioned. All very valid and important things needed in any plan. Win the war of minds before a single punch is thrown and all that.

Plus only a kid or a simple-ton would get emptionaly invested with someone who they just met.

Insults can only be taken never given.

Just so we're clear, we are talking a game that *most* of us play to have fun - and that even many of the GT high-placers have fun (read: being a decent person) while playing as well. So, call it a "skill" or "strategy" all you want, it is still a WAAC tactic that will end with most people not wanting to play against you and that will generally earn you notoriety as being TFG.

Also, emphasis added: nice argumentum ad hominem - way to attack pretty much the entire thread just to try to prove your own point.

 feeder wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Some tournaments do not award full points for a forfeit to prevent the meta game tactic of friends facing each other, and one forfeiting, to advance the other.

Paying a registration fee, travelling to the tourney, managing to draw a game vs a friend, and being willing take a dive to advance that friend is just another skill in a well rounded skillset.

I've seen it happen. In a swiss style tournament of 8 of so players, the guy with the list that's a bad matchup takes one for the team to let his travelling companion, compete for first or second if his list is a better matchup for the expected competition.

It does open the meta tactic of quitting out of spite, giving their opponent the win, but the forfit earning less points than a decisive victory, which hurts their record and therefore chance of advancement.

I've witnessed someone being severely trash talked quitting just to screw the score of the guy trash talking them.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 feeder wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

Or its just acting like a rude person.

Agamemnon2 wrote:No, I don't *know* that for a fact, so why should I assume so?

Don't know you, but when someone says this PRIOR to the comments in question it's actually a pretty safe bet to assume so, dunno. Also, 2 comments ain't exactly dogged determination. Please pay attention this thread is 3 pages long, it doesn't have THAT many comments yet.

And what exactly does punishing the winner for having the loser forfeit accomplish? If two players are colluding then it's pretty trivially easy to ensure that the designated winner gets the maximum possible score. Stupid moves, "forgetting" to attack with units, etc. It just takes a little longer to arrange, but the end result is the same. So the only thing this rule does is punish people who tried to have a legitimate game and had their opponent concede.

OgreChubbs wrote:
No gak talking is a valid and important skill, It is used in real life quite often.

Think someone annoys you, you throw the first punsh your the agressor, a few well placed words and boom they become the agressor. All actions become self defense and admissable.

Being able to get an emotional reaction from someone with a few simple words is imprtant. It can male them follow your plan as if they where your own actions. Make them question their own actions or encourage them to follow through with something they may have questioned. All very valid and important things needed in any plan. Win the war of minds before a single punch is thrown and all that.

Plus only a kid or a simple-ton would get emptionaly invested with someone who they just met.

Insults can only be taken never given.

Rot and rubbish. It just comes across as rude, silly and absurd. This is a game of toy soldiers that people play as a pastime. Have a word with yourself.

Shall I now follow through with a list of insults against you, so that you become the aggressor? Self defence then.

OgreChubbs wrote:
No gak talking is a valid and important skill, It is used in real life quite often.

Think someone annoys you, you throw the first punsh your the agressor, a few well placed words and boom they become the agressor. All actions become self defense and admissable.

Being able to get an emotional reaction from someone with a few simple words is imprtant. It can male them follow your plan as if they where your own actions. Make them question their own actions or encourage them to follow through with something they may have questioned. All very valid and important things needed in any plan. Win the war of minds before a single punch is thrown and all that.

Plus only a kid or a simple-ton would get emptionaly invested with someone who they just met.

Insults can only be taken never given.

I have several issues with your argument here. First of all is this assumption that smack talking is some superb "Art of War" level stratagem to be used when there's money on the line. Which is clearly and, I feel, demonstrably untrue. Professional poker players don't do it, and there's way more money riding on that game than a 40k tournament. I'm not even convinced 40k players actually engage in it regularly, especially with strangers. As we are in the tournament forum, feel free to dip in your oar to dispute this, o ye onlookers.

Then, the whole "only a kid or simpleton" thing. I've found that there's this whole attitude going around these days that the only way to react to anything is a blasé sense of ironic detachment, that caring about anything is a sign of weakness and deserving only mockery. The whole "u be mad, bro?" thing. Well, I've never put much stock in that idea. We are not Vulcans, and half the fun of wargaming as a hobby is emotional engagement. That's why the game is played with lovingly detailed figures and not cardboard tokens and wooden cubes. The game is a social pastime, and expecting to be able to engage with other players in either a professional or a hobbyist level is hardly a novel thing to want to do. Especially since, if you take that away, what joy is there left in playing the game? Winning prizes, maybe, but there can be only one winner, and usually, even by averages, that's not going to be us, so if that's the only good thing we can expect out of an event, more often than not, we're going to be left disappointed and frustrated.

And really, "insults can only be taken" seems to be a rather sad attempt at avoiding responsibility. It's a philosophy that, again, expects people to laugh off disparaging comments, no matter how excessive and hurtful, because nothing really matters, y you mad bro? Yes, sometimes people take something unintended as an insult, but that doesn't mean there isn't such a thing as an intentional insult. Again, not to break the back of the argument running to the ground it thus, but if someone calls me a Jew because some of my models are secondhand, implies that I'm colorblind because of my paint scheme is odd, or deduces my supposed fondness for hot man-on-man action because my force contains Catachans (all real examples), they are the ones at fault in terms of manners and decency, not I.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Don't know you, but when someone says this PRIOR to the comments in question it's actually a pretty safe bet to assume so, dunno. Also, 2 comments ain't exactly dogged determination. Please pay attention this thread is 3 pages long, it doesn't have THAT many comments yet.

Look, I can only respond to arguments people are actually making, not ones I'd like for them to make or the ones they're possibly making behind a smokescreen of what they're actually saying. I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of OgreChubbs there, for example, nothing he's saying is outlandish to me. I've met people like him out there in the wild. I don't see why you're so concerned with what I'm posting, friend. If I'm wasting my time talking to trolls, that's surely no business of yours, unless I'm to believe reading my possibly-in-error posts is taxing your eyes to an unreasonable degree, which I'm finding extremely dubious.

I dont know I never even said anything offensive and I promise you I was flagged and you several are already on the back foot to prove me wrong. Or am I just saying this to prove that I can make you get ready for a fight? Or maybe I am trying to defend myself who knows or maybe this is just a pointless jess to show the merit of mental foreplay?

Oh well guess we will never know shall we have a nice day and sorry for any doubt on trash talk maybe.

Also I would like to end it with I think the best thing to do is

OgreChubbs wrote:
I dont know I never even said anything offensive and I promise you I was flagged and you several are already on the back foot to prove me wrong. Or am I just saying this to prove that I can make you get ready for a fight? Or maybe I am trying to defend myself who knows or maybe this is just a pointless jess to show the merit of mental foreplay?

Oh well guess we will never know shall we have a nice day and sorry for any doubt on trash talk maybe.

Also I would like to end it with I think the best thing to do is

Oh please. My eyes roll any further and they'll drop out of my head.

OgreChubbs wrote:I dont know I never even said anything offensive and I promise you I was flagged and you several are already on the back foot to prove me wrong. Or am I just saying this to prove that I can make you get ready for a fight? Or maybe I am trying to defend myself who knows or maybe this is just a pointless jess to show the merit of mental foreplay?

Oh well guess we will never know shall we have a nice day and sorry for any doubt on trash talk maybe.

Also I would like to end it with I think the best thing to do is

Umm not sure if you are aware of just how offensive some people migth take such remarks/ hints. But then again English is not my native tounge so I may be mistaken after all, but I would perhaps consider toning it down when you are around people outside the internet

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I dont know I never even said anything offensive and I promise you I was flagged and you several are already on the back foot to prove me wrong. Or am I just saying this to prove that I can make you get ready for a fight? Or maybe I am trying to defend myself who knows or maybe this is just a pointless jess to show the merit of mental foreplay?

Oh well guess we will never know shall we have a nice day and sorry for any doubt on trash talk maybe.

Also I would like to end it with I think the best thing to do is

Oh please. My eyes roll any further and they'll drop out of my head.

Well that goes for me as well.
I am often somewhat confused just how vile some people can be when playing with toy soldiers, or board/ card games for that matter. Is this not a hobby one dose for amusment?

Its not even vile, its just comedy absurd!

"Oh maybe I'm picking a fight, maybe I'm not, but maybe I am. See my verbal parry and thrust here. See my better breeding qualities. Gordon Gekko, me, red braces Alpha male"

Right, my space marines to move now *nerd chatter*

I both laugh and sneer at this, especially when its for WARHAMMER 40,000

What a rapier wit!

[MOD EDIT - PLEASE DO NOT POST "IMAGE ONLY" POSTS - Alpharius]

Oh dear. If this is the sterling example of trash talk, then someone please post him the guidebook.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

I have several issues with your argument here...

Have an exalt for quite the well-written argument for being a decent person.

Guess I'm not on at the right time to watch these things unfold.

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

I have several issues with your argument here...

Have an exalt for quite the well-written argument for being a decent person.

Guess I'm not on at the right time to watch these things unfold.

Was a good post, yes. The Chubby chap was out to troll from the first apparently, but its still interesting to see how people approach their game of toy soldiers.

How do people usually approach their 'games of toy soldiers'?

Personally, I have a minor panic attack during deployment and the first turn, then settle down for the game.

Another guy in my local gaming circuit cannot finish a game without blaming his deck or his dice if he loses.

Personal gaming sins? I make tactical suggestions for my opponent if I believe they are making a mistake. I try to stay polite, I wash before a game day, I bring multiple printed lists and if anyone accuses me of using loaded dice I invite others to use them as well. I try to stay within WYSIWYG, I try to limit the number of models I have on the board at once to <50 models. Lastly, I try not to scoop: I will always play through (if someone wants to win in a certain way, why not pay them the compliment of allowing them to do so?)

Yours?

Easy - arrange a game, set the scenario, turn up and settle down for an evening in the company of couple of old friends.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Was a good post, yes. The Chubby chap was out to troll from the first apparently, but its still interesting to see how people approach their game of toy soldiers.

Sorry about that.

I mis-identified who was originally writing what posts. I'm not too great at keeping who wrote what straight since I'm on through my phone and most of the personal identifiers that would otherwise be available are hidden.

So, I was a bit too hasty with the judgment. I apologize for that.



As for approaching 40k, I know that since I am rather competative I get a bit salty if I get stomped too hard, but I've been trying to force myself to overcome that lately so I can be a better opponent. Learning to lose gracefully and still have fun in the process is the ultimate goal, but it's being difficult. I'm gettung some decent practice at it since one of our friends is starting to play. He's pretty decent for only having 2 games in, so I am trying to stick to lists that will challenge him but ultimately lose.

Otherwise, I do my best to be a decent person about it. I avoid spamming models and proxy as little as possible (usually a different weapon here or there at most). But, I've only played in one local tournament, so a lot of my tendencies lean casual.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

I have several issues with your argument here. First of all is this assumption that smack talking is some superb "Art of War" level stratagem to be used when there's money on the line. Which is clearly and, I feel, demonstrably untrue. Professional poker players don't do it, and there's way more money riding on that game than a 40k tournament. I'm not even convinced 40k players actually engage in it regularly, especially with strangers. As we are in the tournament forum, feel free to dip in your oar to dispute this, o ye onlookers.

Professional poker players do engage in table talk, or banter, or trash talk. Tony G is probably the most famous example of this. "On yer bike" is a bit of a meme.

Earlier in this thread I stated that (good) trash talk is a skill in a well rounded skill set. To clarify, I am referring to well-crafted banter or jests. Simply insulting a stranger's mother is very rarely good trash talk.

edit: added a link to Tony G in case anyone is interested enough to click a link but not enough to google it themselves.

Trash talk me and I'll smile politely, win the game, then bottle you in the car lot after the game, no witnesses.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Trash talk me and I'll smile politely, win the game, then bottle you in the car lot after the game, no witnesses.

A man after my taste, you would not happen to be single would you

Banter is good, I usually keep it about the models and their fluff (e.g. a friend of mine plays Khorne and I call his models "dumb brutes" and call my characters idiots when they fail to cast spells), because I and several other players are "not the best a social nuance", it adds to immersion and I stop if my opponent doesn't join in by the end of turn 2.
"Trash talk" can be fun too, by my definition, which basically banter centered around exaggerated bravado (with the objective of humour or lightening the mood).
Not everyone likes either, I'm not very partial to the latter.

I knew a guy who used to try psychological tricks on his opponents, some of them may have worked (he was good at manipulating people in general), but I doubt they made a big difference. If the other person saw through it it was just annoying and made the game unpleasant for no reason. He was also very fond of "dirty tricks" and rule sets that allowed them (in ancients there are several different sets of rules you can play with the same figures, no one has copyright in history).
Do note the past tense, it says what you need to know about him.

The only major sort of tournament I've ever really played in is the GW School League. The worst thing about is definitely some of the 12 year olds that you get drawn against, who are exicitedly boasting about their new WK or something that will wipe you in one turn. For these sorts of opponents I like to compliment their army to make them feel really good and boost their egos. Usually they end up overextending and I end up tabling them. However, if your opponent is a good player then it seems stupid to piss them off right?

People who feel the need to trash talk/sledge/banter the other players generally aren't good enough players to win without it, so its a crutch for them.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
People who feel the need to trash talk/sledge/banter the other players generally aren't good enough players to win without it, so its a crutch for them.

Well, banter between friends is fun, and trash-talk can be about your stuff, so it's not "universally" true.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Well, banter between friends is fun, and trash-talk can be about your stuff, so it's not "universally" true.

Exactly this. The best banter when I play is against the army, albeit a thinly disguised banter against the general.

When his poor Orcs fail all of their throws and every dice fails to hit, we will trash talk that unit into a bunch of in-bred, pigeon-toed, cross-eyed momma's boys that clearly left all their weapons at home in favor of their favorite 'blankie', instead of getting after the actual player.

Yes, banter and a sort of trash talk makes the game more fun for me, but I would never personally attack the player, since I choose not to be that kind of person.

As far as the rage quitters? I have had my moments in tourneys where after a humiliating turn I wanted to sweep the rest of my army off the table and go home. If my opponent would have started degrading me, I probably would have done just that. But, you keep going because the game is fun.

If your fellow left simply because he was outplayed and you did not disrespect him, then the tourney is a better place without him and shame on him to deny you and the other players what they came to the tournament for - a good time playing a game.

There is a difference between playful banter and trash-talk. Playful banter is fun, and helps games to be a little less serious. Trash-talking is just the opposite: it's designed to "psych out" your opponent, something most wargame/boardgame players find offensive. I can tell you I'd get pretty riled up if someone was continually trash-talking me and putting me down the entire game, whether or not I end up losing the game. Trash-talking me is a surefire way to earn a bad sportsmanship score from me (if the event in question has a sportsmanship score). Playful banter, on the other hand, I enjoy and engage in frequently (unless its obvious my opponent doesn't like it).

 ZergSmasher wrote:
There is a difference between playful banter and trash-talk. Playful banter is fun, and helps games to be a little less serious. Trash-talking is just the opposite: it's designed to "psych out" your opponent, something most wargame/boardgame players find offensive. I can tell you I'd get pretty riled up if someone was continually trash-talking me and putting me down the entire game, whether or not I end up losing the game. Trash-talking me is a surefire way to earn a bad sportsmanship score from me (if the event in question has a sportsmanship score). Playful banter, on the other hand, I enjoy and engage in frequently (unless its obvious my opponent doesn't like it).

I still remember the look on one opponent's face when he came back to me and said "Oh man I forgot to even fill out your sportsmanship section!" and I replied "I didn't forget to fill yours out, it was intentionally left blank."

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Trash talk me and I'll smile politely, win the game, then bottle you in the car lot after the game, no witnesses.

This is much more amusing in my head, with your avatar and the prevalence of plastic soda bottles in game stores.

 carldooley wrote:
How do people usually approach their 'games of toy soldiers'?


Yours?

Looking forward to a fun game with someone new or someone I know. Go in with that attitude, and you'll come out with it more often than not. If someone is a dick, so be it. Just play the game by the rules and don't get sucked into their poor attitude.

It also helps that I'm incredibly handsome, women love me, and I'm more humble than all you mother fethers. So even if i play a poor sport, I know that I'm fething awesome.

Have seldom had problems, though have come across a few players who have had a few issues, like someone gunning for a top three place that needed a 6:1 against my flames army getting uppity about how I refused to concede when he had "obviously" won and proceeded to take enough of him for it to only be a 4:3.

Or the player who moaned about my Soviet infantry horde along the lines of "who brings that to a tournament", before I took him apart 6:1

At an event I play to win, occasionally I succeed, more by random chance than skill generally, and the failures can be comical as anyone who has met my orc general, Thangrot the magnificent, will know.

Some people take it all far too seriously, and as such are far too easily wound up, which I'll only do just enough to stop them concentrating properly, and only when they have tried 'TFG' stuff on me first, otherwise I play to win, but would prefer to be defeated and learn something than win and learn nothing.

 DarkBlack wrote:
Banter is good, I usually keep it about the models and their fluff (e.g. a friend of mine plays Khorne and I call his models "dumb brutes" and call my characters idiots when they fail to cast spells)

That's even fluffy if it's obvious the two of you are picking on each other's armies (Calling Khorne brutes, Nurgle followers Snot-Nosed, and so on). You're not attacking the person in this scenario, and you're both having fun. Nothing wrong with that.

It's when you start attacking the person and trash talking them and their army list (You took IG Sentinels? You're stupid) that you're out of line.

While not trash talking one of my personal peeves is people who will intentionally interrupt your thought process with information or questions that are not relevant. Or "jokingly" question you on rules to try and get you to agree to something incorrect.

All of these things are designed to get you to make a mistake and it is super annoying.

 Leth wrote:
While not trash talking one of my personal peeves is people who will intentionally interrupt your thought process with information or questions that are not relevant. Or "jokingly" question you on rules to try and get you to agree to something incorrect.

All of these things are designed to get you to make a mistake and it is super annoying.

I've done this before, but not with the intention of making my opponent make a mistake. Things like when my opponent targets my Land Raider, I say "He's jinking" (in other words, obviously a joke). Never had anyone give me grief about that. I sometimes worry that I accidentally interrupt my opponent's thought process (would never do that on purpose ).

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Leth wrote:
While not trash talking one of my personal peeves is people who will intentionally interrupt your thought process with information or questions that are not relevant. Or "jokingly" question you on rules to try and get you to agree to something incorrect.

All of these things are designed to get you to make a mistake and it is super annoying.

I've done this before, but not with the intention of making my opponent make a mistake. Things like when my opponent targets my Land Raider, I say "He's jinking" (in other words, obviously a joke). Never had anyone give me grief about that. I sometimes worry that I accidentally interrupt my opponent's thought process (would never do that on purpose ).

O yeah, that is perfectly fine. It's when it's something so jarrin to the flow that it completely throws off your auto pilot

Funny experience that reminded me of this thread.

Last night I ran a small game and use my Space Wolves. I had to, to my embarrassment, speed-paint a bunch of the Wulfen, as I had a dead-line coming up, and had a very short window in which to paint them, if I wanted them painted at all.

As a result, several of them have a garish gap in their torsos that I KNOW I should've green-stuffed, but frankly just needed them done.

During said game, my opponent uses every free breath to tell me how ashamed of my hobby job I should be, and how amateurish it all is, and that I am ruining his time by even fielding these models.

I respectfully tried to explain that I was aware of the ONE unit looking mediocre, but you know... considering I have one working hand to do my hobbying, among other challenges... i'm still relatively proud of my crummy little job.

And so it went... maybe ten times before I essentially thanked him for the game, and conceding not needing to hear that for another hour.

So yes... even at a casual venue, and during casual play, bad sportsmanship can come up and really ruin a nice time.

...I'm so sorry that someone spoke to you that way... Makes me grumpy, and I wasn't even there.
There's an unspoken rule amongst our playgroups here, that you only trash your own paint jobs, never other people's.

Though you do get to rip on someone who fails to get theirs painted due to new model syndrome.

Someone started on my stuff once, and I just made a universal hand gesture for keeping his own eyes on his own models. He shut up pretty fast when he saw I wasn't amused.

I talk about other people's paint jobs all the time.

Of course, I'm typically saying something like "Nice job!" or "Wow, you can see the effort that went into that!", not "What a crap job." I reserve that for my own poorly painted minis.

jinking tanks are my fav joke too i thought i was the only one

 axisofentropy wrote:
jinking tanks are my fav joke too i thought i was the only one

That or Drop Pods. I crack this joke as well (though most of my opponents recognize it as a joke)

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

And so it went... maybe ten times before I essentially thanked him for the game, and conceding not needing to hear that for another hour.

So yes... even at a casual venue, and during casual play, bad sportsmanship can come up and really ruin a nice time.

The person you played is a pathetic sack of flesh.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Funny experience that reminded me of this thread.

Last night I ran a small game and use my Space Wolves. I had to, to my embarrassment, speed-paint a bunch of the Wulfen, as I had a dead-line coming up, and had a very short window in which to paint them, if I wanted them painted at all.

As a result, several of them have a garish gap in their torsos that I KNOW I should've green-stuffed, but frankly just needed them done.

During said game, my opponent uses every free breath to tell me how ashamed of my hobby job I should be, and how amateurish it all is, and that I am ruining his time by even fielding these models.

I respectfully tried to explain that I was aware of the ONE unit looking mediocre, but you know... considering I have one working hand to do my hobbying, among other challenges... i'm still relatively proud of my crummy little job.

And so it went... maybe ten times before I essentially thanked him for the game, and conceding not needing to hear that for another hour.

So yes... even at a casual venue, and during casual play, bad sportsmanship can come up and really ruin a nice time.

Gak-talking someone's paint job is not trash talk. It's incredibly sad. If I hear that going on I will call that person out with extreme prejudice.

I'm sorry to hear you crossed paths with such a pathetic excuse for a gamer. At least you know not to waste time on him in the future.

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:

 redleger wrote:
So Sunday I am playing at local FLGS 1500 pt tourny. I bring my hunter contingent with a stormsurge, but no riptide wing.I didn't want to cheese it up too hard, but still have something to deal with what I see in my local meta.

First game is against 3 knights, and it was a hard fought game, but I pull off the win. The opponent on the table next to me is playing his game, while still complaining about Tau cheese the whole time. He won his game, so we end up having to play each other based on points.

Turn 1 he moves his 2 land raiders and rhino up, pops smoke and says go. I then proceed to move up and start blasting. I do some points to one land raider, I drop anchors on my storm surge, but nothing died. Turn 2 he moves up, disembarks, and then announces tank shock on my anchored stormsurge. I then Death or Glory it, with the D weapon, roll a 6 and the LR explodes violently and he then rage quits.

I mean he packed up, while in charging distance to my stormsurge with all his AP2 weilding termies, and was actually in a position to hurt me. He not only denied me points in the tournament, but denied the third game to his would be opponent as well. His opponent had to sit out the game, and was so bored that he fell asleep on the table watching our game. (the third game was actually quite exciting, I think he was just tired).

So is this normal behavior? I mean is seemed pretty poor form to me. He berated me, my army, and denied games to other players who came to play. This person actually has money and access to way more models than I do, so I am not sure why he would bring a force that can't compete(although in reality I was scared of his assaults). Why blame me because I just happened to pick an army, and practice with it enough to be good. I have seen tau get smacked by good players, so I don't think I can say that anyone who plays Tau should be rage quitted on.

IDK, I was just kind of taken back, and it ruined the tourny for me. Has this happened before to any of you?

Im confused... how did he cost you points by quitting. Since he quit isnt that an automatic win for you? Forgive me I don't do tournaments.

Totally didn't follow this thread and didn't realize it go so popular after the first week of posting.

To answer the question that's been asked, I won the points for the game, but was denied kill points, which would be used as a tie breaker at the end if I tied with someone. I ended up taking first anyway if I remember correctly, but it could have cost me. Plus the dude totally could have owned me, as I made a tactical error with my stormsurge. I am pretty sure it would have still been a close game. I mean the Stormsurge has lost its luster, and although still a good addition to an army, its no wraith knight.

 MrDwhitey wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

And so it went... maybe ten times before I essentially thanked him for the game, and conceding not needing to hear that for another hour.

So yes... even at a casual venue, and during casual play, bad sportsmanship can come up and really ruin a nice time.

The person you played is a pathetic sack of flesh.

However - he got the win!

The sad thing is for some that's enough.

Buttery Commissar wrote:...I'm so sorry that someone spoke to you that way... Makes me grumpy, and I wasn't even there.
There's an unspoken rule amongst our playgroups here, that you only trash your own paint jobs, never other people's.

Though you do get to rip on someone who fails to get theirs painted due to new model syndrome.

Someone started on my stuff once, and I just made a universal hand gesture for keeping his own eyes on his own models. He shut up pretty fast when he saw I wasn't amused.

I agree 100%. Ripping on someone else's paintwork/conversions/modelling stuff is never okay, even in jest. Fortunately no one's ever been so bold as to openly insult my painting (or lack thereof in the case of, well, most of my stuff), so I haven't had the police called on me yet. I do sometimes ask for constructive criticism, and have gotten useful tips on how to make my painted stuff look better, or how to get my unpainted stuff done faster, etc. I suppose I'm blessed because we don't have any really toxic people in our local play group.

JNAProductions wrote:I talk about other people's paint jobs all the time.

Of course, I'm typically saying something like "Nice job!" or "Wow, you can see the effort that went into that!", not "What a crap job." I reserve that for my own poorly painted minis.

I do that all the time as well, enough so that I worry that people think I'm just being a suck-up or something.

MrDwhitey wrote:The sad thing is for some that's enough.

Ain't that the damn truth? For me, I play to have fun, throw some dice around, and gawk at awesome models. Winning is just a welcome bonus. Winning would mean nothing if I had to be an a-hole to do it.

I never got the concept of "trash talk".

Maybe it came to a head in the 80s with that crap play-fighting WWW malarkey, maybe not.

I thought it was stupid in the schoolyard, and my opinion hasn't softened on it in 30+ years.

 chromedog wrote:
I never got the concept of "trash talk".

Maybe it came to a head in the 80s with that crap play-fighting WWW malarkey, maybe not.

I thought it was stupid in the schoolyard, and my opinion hasn't softened on it in 30+ years.

It has a legitimate, though occasionally hated, role in professional sports. Kevin Garnett, currently of the T-Wolves and perhaps most famously a former Celtic, is a league renowned trash talker. He has been able to mentally take high level players (Bosh, Noah, Pierce to name a few) entirely out of the game, causing poor performances. As a facet of professional sports, it is absolutely a real, valid tactic.

As something to be used in any game (video games, board games, table top) that is not being played at the professional level (i.e. paid players), it is a jerk move and doesn't really have a place.

Yeah I do the same in a game of Rugby. A bit of verbal sparing can go along way to putting an opponent off their game. I works on some but not on others. Equally I've seen player gobbing off and just distracting themselves. Of course the flip side is that you can make a target of yourself and cop an unfortunate one in the eye if it goes beyond the pale. The ref is also there to step in, admonish and if needs be penalise this sort of behaviour.

Wargaming being a social activity just doesn't have a place for trash-talking opponents. It is not competitive in the same way as sports and there is also not the same atmosphere that comes from it being a Team endeavour. Anyone trying to create a edge just doesn't get it and doesn't really belong at a gaming table.

To intentionally incorrectly paraphrase a great football manager: Wargaming is a game of life and death, it's just not as important.

Bad sportsmanship can ruin tournaments. But if you concede you should give your opponent all the points they can get. For example, if you're playing purge the alien and if your opponent can get up to 15 points then if you concede your opponent should get all 15 points, not just the points earned up to the moment.

How many points my opponent gets when I concede for him being an ass-hat is completely up to the Tournament Organizer. I don't give a rip at that point, nor am I under any obligation to give 2 feths.

That's all on the TO's shoulders.

I know this is a bit necro...but still.

I think it's really odd that this thread hasn't touched on sport at all. There was one throwaway comment about golf, but that was it.

Almost the entirety of NBA coaches' game presence is trash talking, screaming at the refs, screaming at the other coaches, etc. The never seem to get called on it. I saw some old dude literally red in the face with assistants holding him back. (I wished they had let him go so his big fat bluff would've been called.)

Football and American football have all kinds of player confrontations. For hockey, fights are 60% of the reason people watch games at all!

Athletes get paid a lot of money, and part of their game is yelling, scuffling, and other aggressive posturing and maneuvering. And the vast majority of humans like watching/playing sport. Why is tabletop gaming held to such a different standard?
I can understand the restriction on physical aggression, since this is not a physical game. But the verbal sparring? This double standard between sport and tabletop doesn't make sense to me. Someone please explain.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Athletes get paid a lot of money, and part of their game is yelling, scuffling, and other aggressive posturing and maneuvering. And the vast majority of humans like watching/playing sport. Why is tabletop gaming held to such a different standard?
I can understand the restriction on physical aggression, since this is not a physical game. But the verbal sparring? This double standard between sport and tabletop doesn't make sense to me. Someone please explain.

My explanation would be a combination of the quality of the community base but also what's at stake (see underlined part above).
Argument 1. Most people in the hobby probably hold a higher intelligence status and therefore prefer enjoying themselves without any verbal abuse, it's after all not necessary for a good sport let alone a noble behaviour.
Argument 2. Professional athletes are not in it for the "joy" of the game, but they are instead actually working during their games. Correct me if I'm wrong but I am not aware of any professional tabletop player nor the possibility of that ever existing.
Just my thoughts... :-)

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
...Athletes get paid a lot of money, and part of their game is yelling, scuffling, and other aggressive posturing and maneuvering. And the vast majority of humans like watching/playing sport. Why is tabletop gaming held to such a different standard?

Because wargaming is not a sport. Sports promote themselves as a conflict competition, indeed often being contact sports.

The poor behaviour in the sports you note is condoned by the inaction of the sport organisations, therefore it becomes more common. It seems to be more common in US sport, UK sports (Football/Rugby/Cricket) at least attempt to punish this sort of thing when it happens.

Wargaming is a past-time, a social endeavour. Aggression and belittling opponents has no place in wargaming to do so in very poor form and would see you removed from any club/FLGs I have attended.

So why is it held to a different standard; because it is a) different from sport b) invariably participated in by people that are more cerebral and less monkey like.

 notprop wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
...Athletes get paid a lot of money, and part of their game is yelling, scuffling, and other aggressive posturing and maneuvering. And the vast majority of humans like watching/playing sport. Why is tabletop gaming held to such a different standard?

Because wargaming is not a sport. Sports promote themselves as a conflict competition, indeed often being contact sports.

The poor behaviour in the sports you note is condoned by the inaction of the sport organisations, therefore it becomes more common. It seems to be more common in US sport, UK sports (Football/Rugby/Cricket) at least attempt to punish this sort of thing when it happens.

Wargaming is a past-time, a social endeavour. Aggression and belittling opponents has no place in wargaming to do so in very poor form and would see you removed from any club/FLGs I have attended.

So why is it held to a different standard; because it is a) different from sport b) invariably participated in by people that are more cerebral and less monkey like.

I just really got to comment on that last line. Really? calling ALL athletes monkeys seems a bit over the top. I just really have a hard time believing you've ever hung out with athletes before or you'd be less arrogantly superior.

Have you ever heard wrestlers talk about wrestling? It's all moves, counter-moves, and thinking ahead. How about researched a weight lifting plan specific to a sport while recovering from a specific injury. There is a reason people have degrees in this stuff.

Honestly, I shouldn't even have to justify the fact that a huge portion of the population is, in fact, not monkey level intelligence.

I hadn't really gotten why everyone called Dakka poisonous but now I kind of do.

I was a Semi-Pro rugby player, you need to lighten up chap.

Then quit saying stuff like that! You should know better. I know that's a stereotype about athletes but we don't need to re-enforce it.

Besides, every study I've seen of college athletes shows them doing better than their peers in and out of the classroom.

Honestly, I usually feel out how my opponent feels about trash talk and humor by making a few self-deprecating remarks at the start at my own expense. If I get some laughs, then humor flows forth. If I get some ribbing, friendly trash talk ensues.

If I get silence except for essentials, then I give silence except for essentials. Seems to work so far without hurting anyones' feelings.

 vercingatorix wrote:
Then quit saying stuff like that! You should know better. I know that's a stereotype about athletes but we don't need to re-enforce it.

Besides, every study I've seen of college athletes shows them doing better than their peers in and out of the classroom.

You seem to be condoning trash talk but getting hung up on a (clearly in jest) generalisation.

Oh the irony!

Stop being such a baby feller. You won't last long in a sports team if banter isn't your thing.

This is the exact reason why I despise "competitive 40k" and generally refuse to partake in it. Hell, the only reason I go to the LVO is to see friends and have fun in Vegas. I could care less about playing the "Formation Dick Measuring contest.

What your opponent did wasn't just bad sportsmanship, however. It was also terribly embarrassing, and potentially damaging to your local community.

A while back we had a small tournament going on at my LGS. Our community is small, and pretty close. Ironically this story is about a Magic player who wandered over into our area and started making comments. He drove off a perspective female newcomer with his asinine comments. The point is, this behavior in all it's forms only hurts our community and does nothing of any value for it.

Sorry you had to deal with this person and his behavior.

I have a friend who delights in making TFG quit the game. I've seen him do it twice. The gaming group at the tournaments actually thanked him for driving away the A-hole. He never wins by playing a netlist army. He always plays what he likes, and that's it. I've always approved of it. He's also always friendly in a tournament and offers pointers after every match for improvements.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a friend who delights in making TFG quit the game. I've seen him do it twice. The gaming group at the tournaments actually thanked him for driving away the A-hole. He never wins by playing a netlist army. He always plays what he likes, and that's it. I've always approved of it. He's also always friendly in a tournament and offers pointers after every match for improvements.

How did he make the TFGs quit the game, though?

 privateer4hire wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a friend who delights in making TFG quit the game. I've seen him do it twice. The gaming group at the tournaments actually thanked him for driving away the A-hole. He never wins by playing a netlist army. He always plays what he likes, and that's it. I've always approved of it. He's also always friendly in a tournament and offers pointers after every match for improvements.

How did he make the TFGs quit the game, though?

By outplaying them. No cheese (he played Skaven in 8th with no Slave tarpits one tourney, high elves in 7th against a Daemon army and wiped him off the board). Straight up outplayed. MSU, maneuvers, counters, and knowing his targets.

I don't play in many tournaments of any sort (let alone ones for minis games), but I'm more on the 'playful banter' side. Mock my own units performance (failure or 'oh look at the over-achiever with a pile of 6's' success). My goal is that both players have fun, win or lose.

Conversely, when prizes are on the line and things are serious, I'll try to keep it light, but am content to let us both be focused on what we're doing.

Honestly, it's something I appreciate about professional e-sports, where in DotA2 or Starcraft 2 matches the players often have two layers of earphones and a soundproofed booth around them, and another set around their opponents, and likely can't even see them without craning around for it.

And even with that, there are 'swagger' moves pulled, a little clear gloating, or simply plays that become known in the community to mean something. These guys/gals aren't saints, but the emphasis is on their play and teamwork. They get into the heads and under the skin of their opponents by being incredibly good at the game, by knowing themselves, their team, the game, and their opponents better than the opposition knows them/those aspects.

I agree that the drive for everyone to be dispassionate and 'above it all' can get to an unhealthy point. The whole 'u mad bro?' thing, trolling, concern trolling, especially in games, the need not to just challenge or beat the opponent, but to rile them up or make them feel bad is toxic.

If I traveled and paid money for an event, I'm there to play the event. If I wanted to watch an amateur insult comedian ply his trade I'd go to Yuk Yuks on open mic night and at least have (overpriced) beers on hand to ensure something good came of the night.

Have I been rattled in a gaming setting? Sure. In a Malifaux game I misjudged what another crew could do and they wiped half my forces off the board (including my most important pieces) on the first turn. Fething Leviticus...

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a friend who delights in making TFG quit the game. I've seen him do it twice. The gaming group at the tournaments actually thanked him for driving away the A-hole. He never wins by playing a netlist army. He always plays what he likes, and that's it. I've always approved of it. He's also always friendly in a tournament and offers pointers after every match for improvements. [/quote

Now that does sound like a right and proper professional. I'd not mind getting my ass handed by such people.