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Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 16:09:50


Post by: reds8n






..Yup, works for me




Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 16:37:57


Post by: Ratius


Yes really liking the WW1 theme to it. An era that dosent get half enough attention. Hope they do it justice.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 16:40:43


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I'll watch it.

Wait. It looks like she can't fly in this movie. Tickets returned.

:p


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 17:02:59


Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'll watch it.

Wait. It looks like she can't fly in this movie. Tickets returned.

:p

Looks like she might be flying at 2.02.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 17:22:27


Post by: Compel


Looks good to me!

I think they're probably not going to go with, "Wonder Woman can fly" as a thing. However, "Wonder Woman can do really badass awesome leaps with 3 point landings..." on the other hand...


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 17:27:13


Post by: gorgon


Note that the New 52 WW couldn't fly at first. She was granted her flying ability later by Hermes.

We could see her gain this ability at a later time. It didn't appear that she had this ability as of the battle with Doomsday though.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 18:00:20


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


looks good


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 20:28:42


Post by: feeder


If WW could fly why would she need her invisible plane?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 21:57:28


Post by: Breotan


Finally, a DC movie that doesn't look like burnt ass.

I'll definitely be seeing this one in the theater.

 gorgon wrote:
Note that the New 52 WW couldn't fly at first. She was granted her flying ability later by Hermes.

She couldn't fly originally in the comics, either. Then they rebooted her after Crisis and made her a cooler version of Supergirl.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/03 23:39:16


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 feeder wrote:
If WW could fly why would she need her invisible plane?


For her luggage.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 06:04:57


Post by: Crazy_Carnifex


 Breotan wrote:
Finally, a DC movie that doesn't look like burnt ass.

I'll definitely be seeing this one in the theater.


Suicide Squad looked good from the trailers.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 08:33:36


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Looks cool. I love the colour palette. WW's costume really stands out amongst everything else.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 10:33:03


Post by: welshhoppo


It seems good....... Doesn't seem right for DC to have a good movie though. So call me sceptical.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 12:52:53


Post by: gorgon


 Breotan wrote:
Finally, a DC movie that doesn't look like burnt ass.

I'll definitely be seeing this one in the theater.

 gorgon wrote:
Note that the New 52 WW couldn't fly at first. She was granted her flying ability later by Hermes.

She couldn't fly originally in the comics, either. Then they rebooted her after Crisis and made her a cooler version of Supergirl.


I remember her "gliding on the winds" or something similar in the '70s, though.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 17:13:23


Post by: feeder


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 feeder wrote:
If WW could fly why would she need her invisible plane?


For her luggage.


Ba dum tish


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 17:32:21


Post by: Breotan


 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
Finally, a DC movie that doesn't look like burnt ass.

I'll definitely be seeing this one in the theater.

Suicide Squad looked good from the trailers.

No raining on my parade!



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 17:51:00


Post by: Frazzled


 Breotan wrote:
 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
Finally, a DC movie that doesn't look like burnt ass.

I'll definitely be seeing this one in the theater.

Suicide Squad looked good from the trailers.

No raining on my parade!



Suicide Squad was awesome.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 18:48:46


Post by: Mr Morden


Looks good - although I think the first Trailer was better.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 20:27:27


Post by: Alpharius


 welshhoppo wrote:
It seems good....... Doesn't seem right for DC to have a good movie though. So call me sceptical.


Is that an Official Name Change Request?

I can make that happen for you!

Anyway, this one keeps looking better and better...DC might have it's first hit since the Nolan Batman films on it's hands!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/04 21:00:23


Post by: whembly


WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!!

I can't wait to see this!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/05 18:26:07


Post by: yellowfever


I gotta agree with some others. This may be DC's first hit. It's the first of the DC movies I'm looking forward too.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/05 21:09:31


Post by: chromedog


I'll wait for it on cable.

Too many meh superhero movies have come out and left me a bitter old man (not just the DC ones, although they have been the majority).


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/11 00:20:14


Post by: Alpharius


Saw this one on Newsarama - pretty clever!




Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/11 18:12:12


Post by: Relapse


Looks great.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2016/11/12 22:30:26


Post by: Frazzled


 chromedog wrote:
I'll wait for it on cable.

Too many meh superhero movies have come out and left me a bitter old man (not just the DC ones, although they have been the majority).


This I can understand.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/02/06 10:15:25


Post by: reds8n




more of the same, odd new snippet





Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/02/06 12:52:46


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


It's looking better than the other three in the DCEU - literally and figuratively.

However, still perhaps a bit Captain Thormerica. Not necessarily a bad thing of course.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/12 11:16:04


Post by: reds8n







Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/13 15:23:48


Post by: bbb


The trailers have been entertaining, but so far I have three good reasons to keep my expectations as low as possible.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/13 15:36:11


Post by: Mr Morden


Looking forward to this.

Suicide Squad was a step in the right direction - not Marvel good but not bad. Tidy up the story and pacing so its on par with the Marvel studios and they will have a winner. Keep the idiots who cast Lex in Bats vs Sups away from the film at all costs if you don't want it ruined.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/13 21:41:37


Post by: Easy E


An origin story! How novel!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/13 21:58:15


Post by: jmurph


 Easy E wrote:
An origin story! How novel!


Apparently, no one would ever watch a movie about someone with superhuman powers unless they explain the ludicrous powers with some equally improbable back story. Or something.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/13 23:08:11


Post by: Compel


It depends on what you mean by origin story... She may very well have a number of adventures in between her childhood (which we see in the film) and Steve Trevor entering her life. - EG the "I've killed creatures from other planets before."

Personally, I think 40 years is a fair period between showing origin stories to mass audiences...



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/14 03:11:51


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Easy E wrote:
An origin story! How novel!


DC tried to start in the middle, and fell on their faces. So now they're perhaps taking it slow.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/14 04:30:25


Post by: privateer4hire


At least they start her out at WW1 so that she has been in US action around 30 years before Marvel's first avenger was on the scene.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/14 09:21:31


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Only thing that concerns me now is that Zak 'coherent plots are for wimps' Snyder has a writer's credit, and a producer's credit.

I've no particularly regard for Wonder Woman as a character - but I don't want this film to fall foul of Snyder. Not only is Wonder Woman an iconic superhero who deserves the best (despite my ambivalence which is not important), but this is her first, massively overdue big screen headline outing - and I fear that if it flops, Hollywood will just put it down to 'wimmins no sel films'.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/15 01:15:26


Post by: Alpharius


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


I've no particularly regard for Wonder Woman as a character - but I don't want this film to fall foul of Snyder.


What are you trying to say here?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/22 18:34:12


Post by: jmurph


 Alpharius wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


I've no particularly regard for Wonder Woman as a character - but I don't want this film to fall foul of Snyder.


What are you trying to say here?


That Snyder frequently makes pretty, but awful, movies. His previous writing credits included 300 and Sucker Punch. Snyder's Batman and Superman efforts were generally negatively received. Although I am one of the few that liked Suicide Squad (despite Jared Leto).


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/03/22 18:52:18


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


He's made one good film, and that's the Dawn of the Dead remake.

300 is silly. Sucker punch is utterly nonsensical. Man of Steel was a mess, as was Batman vs Superman.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/08 21:11:41


Post by: Easy E


So here is the Final Trailer....




It honestly looks like the most interesting DCU movie yet. I had very little interest in this at first, but the trailers have been growing on me.

I also like things set in WWI.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 00:08:03


Post by: creeping-deth87


I'm actually really looking forward to this. The DC films have been fething awful so far but this one shows actual promise.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 08:02:38


Post by: Compel


Yeah I saw that last week.
It's one thing if it was like a women's fitness thing. - you saw that for Wolverine, Batman and Supes.

But just thin and dieting. Really misses the point of Wonder Woman


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 15:21:59


Post by: gorgon


What I think is that the diet controversy, fresh on the heels of the not-enough-marketing controversy, which followed the armpits controversy -- and I feel like I'm missing a controversy in there? -- just shows all the complications involved with female superheroes and action heroes. We still have a ways to go before we can get past all the silly stuff.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 15:44:46


Post by: Frazzled


Armpits controversy?

I am ok with breakfast bars. Is this something different?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 16:02:28


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Saw the trailer when i went to see GoTG2.

Still very much Captain Thormerica.

But what genuinely, truly worried me was the ad before the trailer, featuring Gal 'more wooden than a very wooden indeed thing' and Chris 'surname is a hint' Pine gushing and telling us how utterly completely quite wunnerful the Wonder Woman movie is, and how we should totes see it....a 'feature' I swear was longer than the actual trailer.

I've not seen such things very often in the cinema (TV, yes!), but when I have, it's usually been an ill omen.

And I don't want Wonder Woman to be another damp squib. I'm no fan of Gadot, but if this flops, Hollyweird will likely just chalk it up to the film having a female lead.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 17:04:30


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 gorgon wrote:
What I think is that the diet controversy, fresh on the heels of the not-enough-marketing controversy, which followed the armpits controversy -- and I feel like I'm missing a controversy in there? -- just shows all the complications involved with female superheroes and action heroes. We still have a ways to go before we can get past all the silly stuff.



I feel like these issues are really just issues because the previous DC films have left such a bad aftertaste with the audience. If Wonder Woman were a Marvel character, coming off a string of fun, successful films, the tone would be quite different. After Suicide Squad, a lot of the cheerful fluff media is saying "this time it's shame on me".


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 18:06:09


Post by: Mr Morden


Another good trailer - although missed her awesome theme tune.

Looking forward to this


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 18:59:31


Post by: gorgon


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
What I think is that the diet controversy, fresh on the heels of the not-enough-marketing controversy, which followed the armpits controversy -- and I feel like I'm missing a controversy in there? -- just shows all the complications involved with female superheroes and action heroes. We still have a ways to go before we can get past all the silly stuff.


I feel like these issues are really just issues because the previous DC films have left such a bad aftertaste with the audience. If Wonder Woman were a Marvel character, coming off a string of fun, successful films, the tone would be quite different. After Suicide Squad, a lot of the cheerful fluff media is saying "this time it's shame on me".


No, I don't think critical reception has anything to do it (note that audience scores of the other DCEU weren't nearly as bad as those of critics). These "controversies" about bleached armpits, dieting, and advertising spend equity wouldn't exist if it was a Barry Allen Flash film we're talking about. They exist only because of gender politics. Which is a shame.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 19:18:25


Post by: Frazzled


Meh. After final seeing Bvs.S, nothing about this interests me unless the daughter wants to see it.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 20:17:51


Post by: whembly


 Frazzled wrote:
Meh. After final seeing Bvs.S, nothing about this interests me unless the daughter wants to see it.

You should see the Director's cut of Bvs.S.

Flix made total sense and may adjust your final opinion.

As for WW... I'm stoked!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 20:27:06


Post by: kronk


 gorgon wrote:
What I think is that the diet controversy, fresh on the heels of the not-enough-marketing controversy, which followed the armpits controversy -- and I feel like I'm missing a controversy in there? -- just shows all the complications involved with female superheroes and action heroes. We still have a ways to go before we can get past all the silly stuff.


All those controversies just because we finally get a female super hero are dumb and sexist.

I only go to super hero movies for 1 thing.

The obligatory butt shots.




Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 20:44:48


Post by: Frazzled


 whembly wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Meh. After final seeing Bvs.S, nothing about this interests me unless the daughter wants to see it.

You should see the Director's cut of Bvs.S.

Flix made total sense and may adjust your final opinion.

As for WW... I'm stoked!


No thanks, Thats more hours of my life I would not get back. AT my age, just waking up is winning life's little crapshoot.

Kronk, what has been seen can now not be unseen.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 21:00:34


Post by: Compel


The "Hawkeye Initiative" is a real thing on the tumblrs. Though it tends to head down a tangential point that's kinda off topic and results in the "anti-SJW" hordes crawling out of the woodwork.

Although, there is a more interesting and more subtle aspect of it all away from the various strawman arguments, which is, that some comic illustrators are starting to realise and take advantage of the market for the 'female gaze' too - most famously when it comes to Nightwing's butt.

And that is kinda on topic a bit. - Like I said, it's very much a marketing disappointment from merchandising fowk who don't understand their potential audience. Hopefully, it'll be course corrected before the films release, which is still the majority of a month away.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 22:26:23


Post by: Easy E


Cap and Hulk ar ethe best in that photo Kronk.




Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/09 23:21:46


Post by: Mr Morden


 whembly wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Meh. After final seeing Bvs.S, nothing about this interests me unless the daughter wants to see it.

You should see the Director's cut of Bvs.S.

Flix made total sense and may adjust your final opinion.

As for WW... I'm stoked!


How did they fix the shockingly awful Loopy Lex acting and plot line!? I laugh when I say plot line obviously. "Hello Human obviously pretending to be a Kryptonian - would you like to make a Domesday device?"

Did they reshoot every scene he ruined with his wannabee Joker act. Seriously - that guy's portrayal ruined that film - Wonder Woman was awesome, Angry Bats was great and Superman worked fine- Loopy Lex was just an ongoing and terrible car crash every moment he was capering like a drunken lunatic on screen.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 07:49:59


Post by: reds8n


https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/05/09/actor-said-taghmaoui-seems-confirm-bleeding-cools-wonder-woman-theory-part-anyway/


I quite like the idea of this.

Some of the characters referenced are pretty obscure however.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 12:22:36


Post by: kronk


I need an Origin story for WW. I know jack gak about her other than she's strong and flies an invisible jet. And she used to have a lasso that made you tell the truth.


* Lasso's criminal
"Tell the truth!"
"Damn you got big boobies."

/Dave Chappelle.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 13:05:35


Post by: gorgon


 reds8n wrote:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/05/09/actor-said-taghmaoui-seems-confirm-bleeding-cools-wonder-woman-theory-part-anyway/


I quite like the idea of this.

Some of the characters referenced are pretty obscure however.


That's pretty awesome, actually.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 14:14:57


Post by: AduroT


 kronk wrote:
I need an Origin story for WW. I know jack gak about her other than she's strong and flies an invisible jet. And she used to have a lasso that made you tell the truth.


* Lasso's criminal
"Tell the truth!"
"Damn you got big boobies."

/Dave Chappelle.


There was a similar scene in the recentish animated movie. The main good guy who crashed on their island was being interrogated in the throne room via golden lasso and and he told the queen her daughter (WW) has a nice rack. There appears to be a similar scene in this movie in the last trailer. Wonder if we'll get the rack comment again.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 16:16:25


Post by: feeder


The problem with the WW1 setting is First World War German soldiers were not evil mooks to be mowed down by the dozen like WW2 Nazis are. I don't know what the body count will be for this film but that could be difficult to make her the Good Guy.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 16:29:58


Post by: Mr Morden


 feeder wrote:
The problem with the WW1 setting is First World War German soldiers were not evil mooks to be mowed down by the dozen like WW2 Nazis are. I don't know what the body count will be for this film but that could be difficult to make her the Good Guy.


Well they seem to have some evil forces using the germans - masked girl and the general (?) who is fighting her hand to hand and says "what are you".

It will probbaly work much better than Cap A 1 where they tried to sell Hydra as the Evil version of the Nazis and yeah that did not work.

Lastly the fact that the Germans in WWI are no more good or evil than the British, Americans etc - just another Great Power may well be a reason that she becomes disulisioned by Sups vs Bats, it did not seem that she was involved in WWII in the same way?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 16:56:32


Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy


 Mr Morden wrote:

It will probbaly work much better than Cap A 1 where they tried to sell Hydra as the Evil version of the Nazis and yeah that did not work.

Lastly the fact that the Germans in WWI are no more good or evil than the British, Americans etc - just another Great Power may well be a reason that she becomes disulisioned by Sups vs Bats, it did not seem that she was involved in WWII in the same way?

Were Hydra supposed to be worse than the Nazis? They never did anything remotely as bad and I kinda assumed that they broke them away from the Nazis to actually make them not seem quite as evil. Don't see why else it was necessary. Unless it was supposed to be a 'not even doing it for their country' kind of thing.

I assumed that this is what they are going for in Wonder Woman. Gets told that she's fighting an evil empire only to discover that they're not particularly worse than the people she's been helping and that many of the people she killed were just ordinary men conscripted to fight for their country. Bonus points if they actually slip in the lies perpetrated about the German army (such as them killing all the babies in Belgian villages as they went through). Though in fairness Germany and its allies were the aggressors so really we were more in the right than them. Britain only declared war after they marched into Belgium after all.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 17:04:17


Post by: Frazzled


SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

It will probbaly work much better than Cap A 1 where they tried to sell Hydra as the Evil version of the Nazis and yeah that did not work.

Lastly the fact that the Germans in WWI are no more good or evil than the British, Americans etc - just another Great Power may well be a reason that she becomes disulisioned by Sups vs Bats, it did not seem that she was involved in WWII in the same way?

Were Hydra supposed to be worse than the Nazis? They never did anything remotely as bad and I kinda assumed that they broke them away from the Nazis to actually make them not seem quite as evil. Don't see why else it was necessary. Unless it was supposed to be a 'not even doing it for their country' kind of thing.

I assumed that this is what they are going for in Wonder Woman. Gets told that she's fighting an evil empire only to discover that they're not particularly worse than the people she's been helping and that many of the people she killed were just ordinary men conscripted to fight for their country. Bonus points if they actually slip in the lies perpetrated about the German army (such as them killing all the babies in Belgian villages as they went through). Though in fairness Germany and its allies were the aggressors so really we were more in the right than them. Britain only declared war after they marched into Belgium after all.


I'd bet literally none of that is in the film. Sorry if that came out as hostile. Let me be more clear, I do not believe the movie is going to be nuanced in any way. After all its a Greek Demi-god fighting in WW2 with what appears to be an American and a really big Iroquois.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 17:08:01


Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy


 Frazzled wrote:

I'd bet literally none of that is in the film.

Probably.

But something is going to cause her disillusionment with man, right?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 17:12:08


Post by: Frazzled


I think WWI trench warfare is more than enough. How delusioned is she if she is still banging about?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 17:39:04


Post by: Compel


I could very well imagine Chris Pine either dying a horrible death, possibly betrayed by someone. Or him doing some suitably awful thing 'for the greater good' in the last act.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/10 17:42:38


Post by: Paradigm


Given that Pine has said (I believe) that he's playing both WW1 Steve Trevor and his grandson, I'd not be at all surprised if he doesn't die in this, prompting Diana to return to the Amazons and shun humanity. Then when she comes back after BvS, she meets the modern Steve who convinces her to stay this time.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/18 20:39:43


Post by: Compel


So well... This is a thing.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2017/05/18/wonder-woman-theme-by-tina-guo

Um... Probably not safe for work, technically speaking...

I know how I feel about this, but, considering it's Wonder Woman, I'm not entirely sure if that's how I should feel about this...


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/19 03:19:59


Post by: Alpharius


Why so confused?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/19 13:25:25


Post by: gorgon


The first reactions from critics are out (reviews are still embargoed)...and they're actually positive.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/05/18/wonder-woman-first-reactions/


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/19 14:09:09


Post by: Alpharius


I hope it is good - and I think it will be, but I wonder if the usual suspects who like to bash DC movies almost by reflex are given pause here because this is Wonder Woman now, and this time around they'll actually have to think critically about it before getting too critical by default?

If that makes sense?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/19 15:41:45


Post by: gorgon


The truly professional critics might back off a smidge. The bloggers probably less so. And the usual forum/comments section trolls will be out in force. Especially of the teenage Marvel fanboy variety. There's nothing WB can do about that, and they're never going to sway them, so WB just has to point to the box office numbers and say "scoreboard".

The thing is, one can be a hypercritical, hyperbolic @#$% about even the greatest films ever made if you make it your agenda. So I'm sure WW will have flaws that people can hysterically rant about.

It's interesting that WW and Aquaman -- of all characters -- seem to have the films with the strongest buzz. Which makes me wonder if WB will be focusing more on solo films than future JL installments. The schedule obviously suggests that, but it seems like the solo films work better when they're allowed to be their own thing. I think that MoS is without question the best of the 3 DCEU films we've seen to this point, for instance.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 01:27:01


Post by: Alpharius


You know, I think you're on to something there!

But...why is that the case?

Is it just because the 'behind the camera' talent used so far just isn't up to the task, or is there something about these characters that doesn't lend itself to 'Avengers Style' group films?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 02:56:45


Post by: BlaxicanX


 gorgon wrote:
The truly professional critics might back off a smidge. The bloggers probably less so. And the usual forum/comments section trolls will be out in force. Especially of the teenage Marvel fanboy variety. There's nothing WB can do about that, and they're never going to sway them, so WB just has to point to the box office numbers and say "scoreboard".

The thing is, one can be a hypercritical, hyperbolic @#$% about even the greatest films ever made if you make it your agenda. So I'm sure WW will have flaws that people can hysterically rant about.
Jesus, dude. How much does Warner Brothers pay you to defend their movies from strangers on the internet? BI haven't seen this much bitterness since I visited the Tyranids tactica thread.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 13:24:00


Post by: Frazzled


weird-neither GC nor wife are interested.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 14:56:36


Post by: gorgon


 BlaxicanX wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
The truly professional critics might back off a smidge. The bloggers probably less so. And the usual forum/comments section trolls will be out in force. Especially of the teenage Marvel fanboy variety. There's nothing WB can do about that, and they're never going to sway them, so WB just has to point to the box office numbers and say "scoreboard".

The thing is, one can be a hypercritical, hyperbolic @#$% about even the greatest films ever made if you make it your agenda. So I'm sure WW will have flaws that people can hysterically rant about.
Jesus, dude. How much does Warner Brothers pay you to defend their movies from strangers on the internet? BI haven't seen this much bitterness since I visited the Tyranids tactica thread.


They pay me your worth many times over. Dude.

Although maybe you want to do a closer reading and determine whether or not I'm actually defending the films here or simply criticizing Marvel fanboys.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 15:40:39


Post by: Ahtman


 gorgon wrote:
Although maybe you want to do a closer reading and determine whether or not I'm actually defending the films here or simply criticizing Marvel fanboys.


It can be both things.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 15:55:47


Post by: gorgon


Well, sure.

Just like how BvS and SS being films with plenty of issues doesn't mean that some individuals didn't complain about all the wrong things. I think that's what I fear will happen with WW in certain circles.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 16:05:35


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I think "Marvel fanboys" isn't really much of a thing. A self-justification, perhaps.


Anyway, my wife and I are very excited about this movie (dirty Marvel fans that we are), so I hope all the positive buzz that I'm hearing through the vast Marvel agitprop network is accurate. I don't want to get my hopes up too high, though, because positive buzz is often deceitful.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 17:18:07


Post by: Alpharius


I'm just a straight up Dirty Superhero Fan, so I'm just hoping for a good movie about them, no matter where it is coming from!

High hopes here, and hearing initial positive buzz is, I think, a good sign.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 17:40:29


Post by: kronk


 Alpharius wrote:
I'm just a straight up Dirty Superhero Fan, so I'm just hoping for a good movie about them, no matter where it is coming from!


Agreed. Fewer movies like Green Lantern, ANY of the Fantastic Four offerings, and Iron Man 3. MORE movies like Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxies, and The Dark Knight.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 18:12:43


Post by: Compel


Kim Horcher seems really excited and positive about it, she saw it at the weekend.

So yeah, just a random internet person but broadly speaking if she disliked something she'd certainly really lay into it, and heavily. So as much as that's worth, I think the film will actually be good.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/22 20:10:50


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 gorgon wrote:
The first reactions from critics are out (reviews are still embargoed)...and they're actually positive.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/05/18/wonder-woman-first-reactions/


Really hope it is decent.

I'm not a fan of what's come before, but being the first female lead superhero movie has put extra onus on this to buck DC's trend of mediocre-at-best.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/24 15:26:48


Post by: Easy E


I am interested more now, then when it just looked like a WW origin story. Now, it looks like a blending or myth, history, and an origin story. I generally like that in my superhero films.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/25 20:38:06


Post by: Elemental


 gorgon wrote:
They pay me your worth many times over. Dude.

Although maybe you want to do a closer reading and determine whether or not I'm actually defending the films here or simply criticizing Marvel fanboys.


Because that's the only reason anyone could find fault with the DC movies--as we all know, the two factions are rival gangs that settle their disputes via dance-off, West SIde Story style.

Me, I just want to see more awesome superhero movies.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/30 13:49:24


Post by: gorgon


Right, because anyone thinking that there are hateful trolls on the Interwebz are clearly just hateful trolls of an opposing opinion.


Soooooo...it's currently at a solid 78 on Metacritic, which isn't bad at all. It's at 96% on Rotten Tomatoes, although I still say RT's system is stupid.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/30 19:01:59


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Pleased to hear it doesn't suck!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 04:45:25


Post by: Ouze


 Alpharius wrote:
I'm just a straight up Dirty Superhero Fan, so I'm just hoping for a good movie about them, no matter where it is coming from!


Very much the same. I think falling into a Marvel vs DC camp is... very strange, at best. As a kid who read lots of Marvel and lots of DC I hope for them both to do well and expand the genre.

I am 4x hyped about Wonder Woman. I'm not sure what specifically it is about this movie that has me so much more interested than the more recent ones - I guess because Wonder Woman is a little fresher and newer to me. I've never seen the Lynda Carter show. Maybe it's just because Gal Gadot was the best part of BvS imo. In any event, I am gonna see this on Thursday for sure unless it sells out.





Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 10:00:26


Post by: -Loki-


Isn't x vs y type fanboyism something people left on the playground of primary school?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 11:23:50


Post by: AduroT


 -Loki- wrote:
Isn't x vs y type fanboyism something people left on the playground of primary school?


It's cute that you think that.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 11:43:53


Post by: -Loki-


 AduroT wrote:
 -Loki- wrote:
Isn't x vs y type fanboyism something people left on the playground of primary school?


It's cute that you think that.


I mean, no really. When I talk to anyone, whether it's at work, at the FLGS, any sort of social gathering, no one has this attitude anymore. They left it behind with Playstation 2 vs X-box at the latest, or Mario vs Sonic.

The only time it ever comes up for me is when I go online. Or maybe I just found a really uniquely good group of people to spend time with?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 12:24:38


Post by: Frazzled


So far it continues to get good reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 13:11:27


Post by: gorgon


 -Loki- wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 -Loki- wrote:
Isn't x vs y type fanboyism something people left on the playground of primary school?


It's cute that you think that.


I mean, no really. When I talk to anyone, whether it's at work, at the FLGS, any sort of social gathering, no one has this attitude anymore. They left it behind with Playstation 2 vs X-box at the latest, or Mario vs Sonic.

The only time it ever comes up for me is when I go online. Or maybe I just found a really uniquely good group of people to spend time with?


Well, sure...at least a certain amount of fanboy behavior can be chalked up to people being donkeycaves online.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 13:22:11


Post by: jmurph


The Internet is a cesspoll of that sort of immature behavior. IRL people who rant about such puerile things tend to be rarer. Most audiences couldn't care less if it's Marvel/DC/Disney/FOX/etc. They just want entertainment.

Can't say I have much interest in this one. Probably catch it on DVD. Didn't like the Superman flicks, thought Batman vs. Supes was extremely boring, and they all took themselves way too seriously, so this one isn't looking too interesting to me. Did like SS squad, though, despite Jared Leto, and think a lot of the hate there was misplaced.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 13:28:00


Post by: Frazzled


Did like SS squad, though, despite Jared Leto, and think a lot of the hate there was misplaced.


Agreed. It was definitely lighter as well.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 14:32:27


Post by: Easy E


Critics didn't pan it, they liked it for the most part and really liked Gal Gadot's performance.

Does this mean the DC/MCU alleged "preference" for MCU myth is busted?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 14:42:25


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 -Loki- wrote:
Isn't x vs y type fanboyism something people left on the playground of primary school?


Careful. US politics discussions like that could get this thread locked.


It occurs to me that some posters may have read my previous post straight, oblivious to the implied eye rolling. Comic book fan boyism is a nonissue compared to the mainstream wisdom of audiences, and they know a Marvel branded movie is always at least entertaining. DC wants to achieve the same brand success, but they Lennied that mouse too hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Easy E wrote:
Critics didn't pan it, they liked it for the most part and really liked Gal Gadot's performance.

Does this mean the DC/MCU alleged "preference" for MCU myth is busted?



No, the preference for good movies is very real.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 18:16:31


Post by: Compel


They seem to be taking from a wider range of sources of DC things now, including humour.



(please don't scale too big, please don't scale too big...)


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 18:39:40


Post by: Alpharius


 Easy E wrote:
Critics didn't pan it, they liked it for the most part and really liked Gal Gadot's performance.

Does this mean the DC/MCU alleged "preference" for MCU myth is busted?


No?

Maybe?

I don't know?

Given the subject of the movie, even the most dyed in the wool reflexive DC bashers (if they exist!) would be given pause here, wouldn't they?

It would have to be a truly bad movie for them to be able to vent their spleen, as per (alleged) usual.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 19:03:47


Post by: Compel


If anyone is wanting an introduction to Wonder Woman, who and what she is and so on, there's a show about her starting pretty much now.

http://www.twitch.tv/geekandsundry

Hopefully it'll act as a primer to her before the film.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 21:19:50


Post by: Easy E


I was surprised to hear that the evil general is Erich von Ludendorff. Yeah, that Erich von Ludendorff.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/05/31 21:24:49


Post by: Frazzled


 Easy E wrote:
I was surprised to hear that the evil general is Erich von Ludendorff. Yeah, that Erich von Ludendorff.



seriously?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 01:29:18


Post by: Alpharius


You're not posting spoilers in here ahead of the USA release on June 2, are you?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 02:26:35


Post by: squidhills


 Easy E wrote:
I was surprised to hear that the evil general is Erich von Ludendorff. Yeah, that Erich von Ludendorff.



I dunno... considering some of the things he did post-war it makes a kind of sense. He advocated for total war (even wrote a book about it), backed Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch, politically defied and opposed Hindenburg during the 20s and 30s... he's as close to a guilt-free German villain as you're likely to find in World War One ("guilt free" as in: you can make him your villain and get the audience to hate on him without feeling like you might be unfairly maligning a guy who might not deserve it, like Hindenburg). He was also Quartermaster General of the German army, which put him in charge of supply and logistics, which I assume would involve finding new weapons to use in the war. If the scenes in the trailer of a new chemical weapon that can destroy gas masks is important to the plot, it would make sense for Ludendorff to be the guy greenlighting the research and development. I'm actually pleasantly surprised they picked him over the lower-hanging fruit of von Falkenhayn (ran the show after von Moltke's nervous breakdown in '14 until 1916 after Verdun turned out the complete opposite of how he promised it would).


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 03:03:15


Post by: Tannhauser42


Read a review over on CNet. I can't quite tell if the reviewer liked the movie or not. They spent a lot of the time complaining about the use of WWI as the setting.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 13:39:30


Post by: Ouze


 Frazzled wrote:
Did like SS squad, though, despite Jared Leto, and think a lot of the hate there was misplaced.


Agreed. It was definitely lighter as well.


I also really enjoyed the Academy-Award winning film Suicide Squad, for what it's worth.


 -Loki- wrote:
Isn't x vs y type fanboyism something people left on the playground of primary school?


I don't know much about sociology, but it seems tribalism is a defining feature of humanity.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 17:13:38


Post by: Easy E


squidhills wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
I was surprised to hear that the evil general is Erich von Ludendorff. Yeah, that Erich von Ludendorff.



I dunno... considering some of the things he did post-war it makes a kind of sense. He advocated for total war (even wrote a book about it), backed Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch, politically defied and opposed Hindenburg during the 20s and 30s... he's as close to a guilt-free German villain as you're likely to find in World War One ("guilt free" as in: you can make him your villain and get the audience to hate on him without feeling like you might be unfairly maligning a guy who might not deserve it, like Hindenburg). He was also Quartermaster General of the German army, which put him in charge of supply and logistics, which I assume would involve finding new weapons to use in the war. If the scenes in the trailer of a new chemical weapon that can destroy gas masks is important to the plot, it would make sense for Ludendorff to be the guy greenlighting the research and development. I'm actually pleasantly surprised they picked him over the lower-hanging fruit of von Falkenhayn (ran the show after von Moltke's nervous breakdown in '14 until 1916 after Verdun turned out the complete opposite of how he promised it would).


That was the reasons many people justified it, however I am a bit surprised they didn't just make up a guy. It's not like it is hard to make-up an evil sounding german name and put general in front of it.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 17:25:31


Post by: feeder


 Easy E wrote:
squidhills wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
I was surprised to hear that the evil general is Erich von Ludendorff. Yeah, that Erich von Ludendorff.



I dunno... considering some of the things he did post-war it makes a kind of sense. He advocated for total war (even wrote a book about it), backed Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch, politically defied and opposed Hindenburg during the 20s and 30s... he's as close to a guilt-free German villain as you're likely to find in World War One ("guilt free" as in: you can make him your villain and get the audience to hate on him without feeling like you might be unfairly maligning a guy who might not deserve it, like Hindenburg). He was also Quartermaster General of the German army, which put him in charge of supply and logistics, which I assume would involve finding new weapons to use in the war. If the scenes in the trailer of a new chemical weapon that can destroy gas masks is important to the plot, it would make sense for Ludendorff to be the guy greenlighting the research and development. I'm actually pleasantly surprised they picked him over the lower-hanging fruit of von Falkenhayn (ran the show after von Moltke's nervous breakdown in '14 until 1916 after Verdun turned out the complete opposite of how he promised it would).


That was the reasons many people justified it, however I am a bit surprised they didn't just make up a guy. It's not like it is hard to make-up an evil sounding german name and put general in front of it.


General Hilter Von Luftballon


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 17:30:12


Post by: Compel


I'm off to see the film now, I'll let you all know how it is.

It's taken 75 years for this to happen.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 19:21:46


Post by: jmurph


Sure, the could have used Gunter von Evilburg or Hans Totenface, but where would the historical authenticity be?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/01 22:01:21


Post by: Compel


Wonder Woman is really very good. Major "Saving Private Ryan" vibes to it, something that Cap1 never really pulled off.

One thing worth mentioning is there are no mid or after credits scenes. Once the film is done, it's done.

In saying that, if they did do an end credits scene, this is what I would have wanted to see: (Spoilers for the end of the film, naturally)

Spoiler:
An open topped boat floats down an underground river. There is a body under the blanket. A voice is heard coming from all directions - someone like Ian McNeice or Stephen Fry - "Ah, my dear nephew. It is so good for you to finally join us... Your family has been waiting such a long time to see you again..."


The main thing I'm trying to figure out it's where I'd place it. It's certainly closer in feel to Logan than Guardians2, for example. But it never really matches either in genre. It's definitely a "war is a horrible thing" film, so that brings me back to Saving Private Ryan, albeit with no blood and gore.

It's probably not quite as rewatchable as Guardians but, broadly speaking I'd rather put it on than Logan.

So broadly speaking of you're worried it's going to be a bad film, don't be, you'll be fine.

In 3 words.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/02 02:40:01


Post by: Ahtman


Going to summaries something I saw earlier:

Person A: This movie creates unrealistic standards

Person B: That war is bad and that women can be strong?

Person A: No, that WB can make a good DC movie.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/02 05:17:23


Post by: Ouze


Saw it tonight. Thought it was terrific, easily the best non-Nolan DCCU movie, although that's kind of a low bar.

Gal Gadot was tremendous in the movie, and I even didn't hate Chris Pine.

FYI, there is no post-credits scene, go ahead and go to the bathroom.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/02 06:43:57


Post by: AduroT


The movie ended and everyone sat thru all the credits. The screen went dark, the lights turned on, and the whole theater groaned. Marvel has trained us too well.

Spoiler:
I was hoping there would end up being no Aries in this movie at all. Have the War be entirely man's thing with no meddling. Bring him in later in a sequel. That said, were there to be one I had him pegged quite early on that he would be the surprise twist Aries.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/02 12:21:01


Post by: trexmeyer


I saw it last night. It's more than good, it's probably the best origin movie since Iron Man. As the critics say, the third act falters and could have been greatly improved with a rewrite and reduced running time for that portion of the film.
Spoiler:
Surprisingly it's not the feminist film it's made out to be for three major reasons.

1). Wonder Woman is revealed to be a daughter of Zeus...and a god. Which to me really kills the girl power narrative. Gender is completely irrelevant in regards to a God's power.

2). All the Amazons could be replaced with men and only one character would require a rewrite, Diana's mother... the only one of them to do something unique to the female gender. The remaining female characters are not portrayed in a very positive light. Dr. Poison is cruel and easily manipulated by male figures. Steve's secretary is frumpy, but mostly competent at least. The remaining women are portrayed as victims of war.

3). The greatest act of self sacrifice in the film is done by a man and it is this act that motivates Wonder Woman to defeat Area.

However, this film is a success in that shows a female superhero led film can succeed critically and commercially. Which is the most important success.


Gal Gadot embodies Wonder Woman perfectly. It's almost surreal. Easily on par with how RDJ is the perfect Iron Man.




Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/02 20:08:32


Post by: BrotherGecko


 trexmeyer wrote:
I saw it last night. It's more than good, it's probably the best origin movie since Iron Man. As the critics say, the third act falters and could have been greatly improved with a rewrite and reduced running time for that portion of the film.
Spoiler:
Surprisingly it's not the feminist film it's made out to be for three major reasons.

1). Wonder Woman is revealed to be a daughter of Zeus...and a god. Which to me really kills the girl power narrative. Gender is completely irrelevant in regards to a God's power.

2). All the Amazons could be replaced with men and only one character would require a rewrite, Diana's mother... the only one of them to do something unique to the female gender. The remaining female characters are not portrayed in a very positive light. Dr. Poison is cruel and easily manipulated by male figures. Steve's secretary is frumpy, but mostly competent at least. The remaining women are portrayed as victims of war.

3). The greatest act of self sacrifice in the film is done by a man and it is this act that motivates Wonder Woman to defeat Area.

However, this film is a success in that shows a female superhero led film can succeed critically and commercially. Which is the most important success.


Gal Gadot embodies Wonder Woman perfectly. It's almost surreal. Easily on par with how RDJ is the perfect Iron Man.



Spoiler:
I don't think you know what Feminist means. You just described a Feminist movie.


I saw it and it is legitmately a good movie. Solidly standing with this years current hero movies (Logan and GotG2) and significantly better than all of the DCU movies thus far. Like a lot better.

My only knock is the finally villain didn't live up to the rest of the movie and was a bit of a miscast
Spoiler:
Aries didn't look or feel like a god of war and looked silly as a CGI villain next to WW
. However, the movie still held up really well everywhere else and it didn't drag the movie down.

I would definitely recomend the movie and I so far have not like any DCU films. Hope this is a good sign for Justice League.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/02 20:11:51


Post by: Compel


I don't feel it was a miscast but more...

Spoiler:
An missed opportunity to recast him as someone else for the final sequence.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/03 01:37:00


Post by: ZebioLizard2


Spoiler:
Not to really add too much, but it's Ares God of War not Aries.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/03 04:25:15


Post by: Ouze


I thought that the casting of that one role was absolutely ridiculous. it's my only criticism.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/03 04:34:15


Post by: Ctaylor


My wife and I saw it earlier today. We both really enjoyed it.

I'm more of a Marvel movie fan, and haven't really liked anything DC since Batman Begins, but WW is excellent. Not without its flaws (the end fight isn't as good as earlier sequences) and there are Marvel-esque problems with the villain (which is to say, the movie focuses on the protagonists to the detriment of the antagonists).

Looking forward to more WW movies.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/03 12:46:32


Post by: KingCracker


Well reading reviews all over says its a pretty solid movie and that makes me happy. Ill definitely be taking the wife to see it then.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 00:03:02


Post by: ScootyPuffJunior


I went to see it today with my wife, two daughters, and my mom and we all had a great time.

Some of the action was a little too intense for my five and a half year old, but she was okay. My wife like it, my mom and I absolutely loved it, and my eight year old daughter like it too, but it was a little too long for her and she started to get a little bored.

It's beyond a doubt the best DC movie and one of the better superhero movies that's come out in a while.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 01:11:26


Post by: Crimson Devil


I hate the fact WB did the politically correct thing casting a woman as Wonderwo-Man. Sad.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 04:11:58


Post by: Ouze


 Crimson Devil wrote:
I hate the fact WB did the politically correct thing casting a woman as Wonderwo-Man. Sad.


/golfclap


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 04:34:41


Post by: Kojiro


I quite enjoyed it. Very much. Gadot played the character very well.

If I have any complaints it's that the ending was a bit of a let down and she seems inconsistent with her BvS depiction in some way.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 13:51:59


Post by: Alpharius


 Kojiro wrote:
I quite enjoyed it. Very much. Gadot played the character very well.

If I have any complaints it's that the ending was a bit of a let down and she seems inconsistent with her BvS depiction in some way.


I haven't seen it yet, but plan on it tomorrow night, so in anticipation of all that - inconsistent with her BvS depiction in what way?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 14:00:03


Post by: Kojiro


 Alpharius wrote:
I haven't seen it yet, but plan on it tomorrow night, so in anticipation of all that - inconsistent with her BvS depiction in what way?

I mean in terms of her powers. She displays a few that would have been extremely useful against Doomsday.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 14:19:31


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Kojiro wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I haven't seen it yet, but plan on it tomorrow night, so in anticipation of all that - inconsistent with her BvS depiction in what way?

I mean in terms of her powers. She displays a few that would have been extremely useful against Doomsday.


Those powers may have atrophied since her decision to champion love over murderous violence. It's not like she needed her Big Bang attacks against the squishy humans she's dealt with the last century.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 15:29:17


Post by: Ouze


Nah, nothing like that.

Spoiler:
I just rewatched the fight in BVS and she does do "the wrist thing". She actually opens with it. It just wasn't as effective vs Doomsday for whatever reason - I assume because it was meant to deal with Ares, vs an alien being. She even comments that Doomsday seems to feed off energy.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/05 16:29:05


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Ouze wrote:
Nah, nothing like that.

Spoiler:
I just rewatched the fight in BVS and she does do "the wrist thing". She actually opens with it. It just wasn't as effective vs Doomsday for whatever reason - I assume because it was meant to deal with Ares, vs an alien being. She even comments that Doomsday seems to feed off energy.



Ah. Thank you for clearing that up with your astute observation. Sorry you had to rewatch BVS to glean it, but if it helps you move past the suffering know that your sacrifice did save many others from having to face that ordeal.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 03:33:06


Post by: paulson games


I thought it was awesome.

Spoiler:
Ending seemed a bit drawn out but that seems to be the trend with most super hero movies who for some reason have to fight and kill their arch rival in the first movie.
I'm not sure why they can't keep an arch enemy around in the films when it works in the comics and the animated series. Hollywood always wants to have a (sometimes swift) end to the supervillains when a huge part of what makes the superheroes is that they able to show mercy to even the worst of enemies and let inner good triumph yet hollywood wants them filled with burning rage that it requires the death of their arch to be justice, which in the comic world is not true. ::Shrug:: Apart from that point which it shares with pretty much every comic film of late I thought it was really well done and Gal Gadot absolutely nails her role



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 04:25:06


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


The villains and the ending were just not handled well. Other than that, I loved the movie. My wife and I plan to see it again.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 07:13:18


Post by: Pendix


Saw it on the weekend with my wife & a buch of our friends. It was good! Not, knock-your-socks-off amazing, but a proper, solid Superhero movie that I (personally) found to be the best one in the DCU so far, by a not inconsiderable margin.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 14:47:15


Post by: Elemental


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Spoiler:
Not to really add too much, but it's Ares God of War not Aries.


Spoiler:
You must admit, having the main villain turn out to be a sheep would have been the ultimate twist.

Though yeah, they really should have gone with something different for Ares after he transformed. A different actor or CG giant, an all-concealing helmet, something. David Thewlis has a lot of talents, being physically intimidating isn't one of them.


Really liked this movie, as someone who was lukewarm at best on the previous DC movies. It feels like the sort of tone the previous ones were trying for, if that makes sense?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 17:16:46


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 Pendix wrote:
Saw it on the weekend with my wife & a buch of our friends. It was good! Not, knock-your-socks-off amazing, but a proper, solid Superhero movie that I (personally) found to be the best one in the DCU so far, by a not inconsiderable margin.


Saw it last night with my wife and feel the same. It was a really enjoyable movie, not perfect but I wasn't looking for perfection. For a DCU movie it was fething amazing.

Though, I had this question, sorry if its been discussed already, I've only skimmed the thread:
Spoiler:
If Ares' machinations were the cause of WWI, and he is "dead" at the end of the movie, how does WWII happen? Is that just the "darkness" that exists within mankind or is Ares not really vanquished?



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 17:24:12


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


The character you mention did not actually start the war. He just provided ideas to make it worse. His line of reasoning was that humanity was so broken it would end itself, so why not help move it along a bit.

He reminds me a lot of of Old Testament Satan (the Accuser). I guess that would make Diana Jesus...


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 18:01:51


Post by: Ouze


Indeed - DT, I think you missed kind of a big plot point there.

Bob's analogy is pretty apt, in terms of him making suggestions, but ultimately this being what humanity is actually like.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/07 19:26:26


Post by: DarkTraveler777


Fair points, thanks for the clarification.

The scene showing the suggestions now comes to mind, so I guess I blocked that part out.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/08 02:37:12


Post by: privateer4hire


We saw it this evening. Best DC movie I've seen in several years all the way back to Batman Begins. It was a solid B. Felt a little long all over and esp. during the final confrontation.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/08 02:52:07


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I thought the final fight was the best in any current DC movie in terms of cinematic mechanics, well choreographed with a sense of immense scale. It was fun in a DBZ way. However, the resolution felt a bit like if Luke Skywalker killed the emperor with his lightsaber. Tonally and thematically inappropriate.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/08 02:59:22


Post by: privateer4hire


I have noticed the footsweep seems to be DC's answer to the 3-point power landing of Marvel


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/08 06:17:43


Post by: AduroT


Yeah, it's why I really wish there had been no Ares in the movie/war. No whispers or obfuscations or any potential outside influence, just mankind sucking sometimes. Have the final fight with the General on his super gas be a bit bigger, and have her still using some big move to finish him with a good expanding wave of power, though not quite so giant crater causing. Then as a bonus credit scene somewhere else away from the war show a kind of ripple of power/energy roll over some guy and him looking up and towards its source and something to imply/hint that That's Ares and he's become aware of her.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/08 07:03:54


Post by: sebster


I loved it. There was excellent action and plenty of good laughs. They did a great job evoking the setting, and fitting the Great War in to a superhero film without diminishing the tragedy and complexity of the actual war.

This is also the first superhero film in a long time where the major character wasn't always right about everything, and always battling against people who didn't understand the major character was always right about everything. This was refreshing and made the heroism more meaningful - it is one thing to act bravely when you have absolute certainty, and quite another to act bravely when you have doubts and uncertainties.

WW was a really engaging hero, Gadot balanced a kind of naivety and youthful enthusiasm with great power and a keen mind. That's a tough thing to balance, as if you get it a bit wrong you end up with superhero man children, something that's annoyed me about a lot of recent Marvel and DC films.

Chris Pine was also excellent, the character ended up having a lot of depth, where it might have just been a combination of exposition and comedic foil, instead he was believable and interesting and a key to making us engage with WW's character arc.

The other minor characters were interesting ideas, but none were handled well - the French Tunisian? was mostly played for dopey laughs, the post traumatic stress Scot seemed to recover in a scene left on the cutting room floor, and the Indian actor I thought did pretty well working with some really tired cliches. I mean smoke signals in a move in 2017?

The villains were also uninteresting. Ares had a couple of good lines at the end, but everything else was just short scenes of villains doing what they always do in these movies. Murdering a bunch of senior officers from your own army, and strolling away why no-one does anything? So stupid and so common in movies like this.

I also couldn't help myself with a whole bunch of nitpicks throughout the movie, particularly in regards to the Great War being represented. Silly stuff, but lines about a battalion being in the same place for a year - UK units were regularly cycled on and off the front, and this was at the end of the war, when war on the front had opened up due to improved offensive tactics, broken front line positions, and collapsing moral. But these are nitpicks, what's more important is that they evoked the horror of the war.

The ending was overlong, and full of the stupid thing where the hero and villain shout debating points at each other in between punches, but that's true of most superhero movies.

Heh, I just ended listing all the small things that I didn't like about this movie. Which is odd because its a really, really good movie, and probably my favourite superhero film since The Dark Knight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Elemental wrote:
Really liked this movie, as someone who was lukewarm at best on the previous DC movies. It feels like the sort of tone the previous ones were trying for, if that makes sense?


I've really liked what DC has been aiming for in its previous efforts, but I think the execution was badly lacking. Man of Steel took the melancholy to extremes while also giving us space dragons and Russell Crow as a space ghost, Batman vs Superman invested hours in to set ups while bungling its main plot, and Suicide Squad fought against its own premise by giving us the madcap adventures of a bunch of whacky villains doing little more than walking across a city to do the mission they were ordered to complete.

This time they got the execution right, and the result was a film that included more mature themes, while still being a lot of fun.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/09 23:27:22


Post by: Mr Morden


Just got back from watching the film

Awesome film -

well directed, great cast, great action, some good comedy to make the more dramatic elements more effective - something that DC have finally understood. Thoughtful in places and all in a brilliant movie.

Well Done DC!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/10 08:41:12


Post by: reds8n


Can only really echo the above, cracking film, whole cast was good.

Pine especially.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/10 22:21:48


Post by: Alpharius


The only thing that felt 'off' was Steve sacrificing himself for what was essentially no reason?

They could have blown the plane up and had the gas consumed by fire pretty much in some open field somewhere, couldn't they?

I realize that his death 'unlocked' Diana's 'full potential and power' and showed her that there is as much 'good' about humanity as their is 'evil', but...


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/10 23:13:56


Post by: Compel


They didn't specifically describe that situation but they did specifically discuss a number of alternative solutions which weren't viable (IE it killing everyone in the surrounding area / out of control fireball etc), so I'm willing to accept that this was the only suitable solution.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/11 01:03:49


Post by: -Loki-


Not to mention coming up with the plan in a hurry while they were already taxiing the plane to the runway. Might not have been the best solution, but it was the best solution they could think of in a few minutes.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/11 16:28:34


Post by: whembly


 Alpharius wrote:
The only thing that felt 'off' was Steve sacrificing himself for what was essentially no reason?

They could have blown the plane up and had the gas consumed by fire pretty much in some open field somewhere, couldn't they?

I realize that his death 'unlocked' Diana's 'full potential and power' and showed her that there is as much 'good' about humanity as their is 'evil', but...

I go to theaters that has the subtitled device... so...

I understood that blowing up the plane wouldn't have saved the local area from the effect of that gas.

My only nitpick, and it's a small nitpick really, was that the writer essentially felt that Ares had to be the one to tell Diana that she's the godkiller, and not the sword. Why would the big bad adversary would "teach" his opponent that?

Other than that, the whole flick is a solid 9/10.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 00:29:03


Post by: ZergSmasher


Just saw the movie today. I loved it! Of course, given how amazing Gal Gadot looks, it's hard not to like. [/nerdcrush] The story was interesting and engaging too, not just action scenes and body shots. Probably the best outing for the DC movie universe yet.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 00:59:59


Post by: creeping-deth87


DC have finally put out a good movie. So much better than all their earlier efforts. Hopefully Whedon can salvage justice league from whatever Snyder put together.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 05:12:15


Post by: sebster


 Alpharius wrote:
The only thing that felt 'off' was Steve sacrificing himself for what was essentially no reason?

They could have blown the plane up and had the gas consumed by fire pretty much in some open field somewhere, couldn't they?

I realize that his death 'unlocked' Diana's 'full potential and power' and showed her that there is as much 'good' about humanity as their is 'evil', but...


Yeah, they pretty much decided that Steve had to kill himself, and then contrived the situation in order to make him do it. The problem, though, was that the situation they gave wasn't actually that well set up. Steve had control of the plane and that plane was going to fly to London, so he could have just flown it off in to the channel and ditched it.

The gas was pretty annoying in general, tbh. It appeared lighter than air, which meant it was actually worse than mustard gas because it would dissipate, not fill trenches and remain a threat. And this would be an even greater issue when you were dropping it all from one plane, the gas wouldn't spread outside of the drop zone before floating away.

Also, if the gas is highly flammable, why didn't it ignite when dropped on the village? Was there no open flames.

Thinking about it, a plane that could carry that kind of payload and reach London was a way more decisive, war changing weapon than the gas was.


These are all nitpicks, of course. None of that really matters, at least not to me. The film got all the important stuff right.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 08:36:22


Post by: AduroT


I liked how the gas was selective in only shattering the glass goggles on gas masks and never the glass test chambers they used it in.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 09:01:04


Post by: MarkNorfolk


I think Dr Poison was upset that the gas wasn't powerful enough for her in the first test (Steve's flashback story) and when they used it on the 'High Command' it did actually crack windows....


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 12:25:06


Post by: Mr Morden


MarkNorfolk wrote:
I think Dr Poison was upset that the gas wasn't powerful enough for her in the first test (Steve's flashback story) and when they used it on the 'High Command' it did actually crack windows....


The guy she was testing it on did not die first time round IIRC - hence her annoyance. Indeed -0 it was cracking glass so the General and the Dr legged it.

It looked like the Dr survived the film?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 18:32:40


Post by: gorgon


 Mr Morden wrote:
It looked like the Dr survived the film?


Well, she has to be able to pass on the formula for venom, right?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 18:34:58


Post by: Mr Morden


 gorgon wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
It looked like the Dr survived the film?


Well, she has to be able to pass on the formula for venom, right?


Ok? Sorry I don;t know anything about the character - is she important?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 18:41:00


Post by: gorgon


 Mr Morden wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
It looked like the Dr survived the film?


Well, she has to be able to pass on the formula for venom, right?


Ok? Sorry I don;t know anything about the character - is she important?


Nah, not really...she's a pretty obscure villain in the grand scheme of things. Just pointing out that her other invention may very well be the introduction of the venom drug into the DCEU, and a cool bit of worldbuilding.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 18:43:47


Post by: Compel


Venom is most famously a green liquid used by the Batman villain Bane.




It seems there's some theories in the internet that the blue gas which the villain inhales is a venom prototype, as it has very similar effects. Superhuman strength, stamina, rage and potential addiction.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/12 18:50:01


Post by: Mr Morden


Ah right - ok that makes sense thnx both of you


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/13 02:30:28


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 gorgon wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
It looked like the Dr survived the film?


Well, she has to be able to pass on the formula for venom, right?


Ok? Sorry I don;t know anything about the character - is she important?


Nah, not really...she's a pretty obscure villain in the grand scheme of things. Just pointing out that her other invention may very well be the introduction of the venom drug into the DCEU, and a cool bit of worldbuilding.


Is that the drug that turns people into gooey black spiders?

What's the context of venom in the DC comic universe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops, ninja'ed. So venom is likely to be used for future villains?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/13 07:48:51


Post by: Ouze


 ZergSmasher wrote:
Just saw the movie today. I loved it! Of course, given how amazing Gal Gadot looks, it's hard not to like. [/nerdcrush]


Bonus difficulty: looking amazing while 5 months pregnant..




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Is that the drug that turns people into gooey black spiders?

What's the context of venom in the DC comic universe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops, ninja'ed. So venom is likely to be used for future villains?


Side note, Venom is part of the Marvel universe, so would never appear in a DC film. It will, however, be appearing in a film, and pretty soon - Sony is developing a movie now starring Tom Hardy. Also, completing this tangent, the black goo in question is actually a living creature that establishes a symbiotic relationship with a human being.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and OK, technically, a Tyrannosaurus, one time.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/13 13:26:15


Post by: jmurph


Hey, everybody has that shady hookup in the past they would rather forget. Venom goo was just very lonely....


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/13 19:07:15


Post by: Tactical_Spam


I just went and saw the movie and I can't see the love some of you have for it. It felt inconsistent, poorly-paced and suffered from "telling not showing."


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/13 23:41:29


Post by: Mr Morden


 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I just went and saw the movie and I can't see the love some of you have for it. It felt inconsistent, poorly-paced and suffered from "telling not showing."


Each to their own
Did you like the other DC or Marvel movies?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 01:31:06


Post by: Tactical_Spam


 Mr Morden wrote:
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I just went and saw the movie and I can't see the love some of you have for it. It felt inconsistent, poorly-paced and suffered from "telling not showing."


Each to their own Did you like the other DC or Marvel movies?


They've been declining in quality, imo. The last one I really liked was Guardians of the Galaxy.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 02:26:02


Post by: chromedog


I liked WW. It didn't totally suck (unlike MoS and BvS).

I liked Guardians of the Galaxy (1).
I liked Iron man and Captain America.
Not so much the rest of the DC/Marvel stuff.

Zack Snyder taking a step back from making movies can only be a good thing (no matter the reasons for it).


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 02:36:06


Post by: epronovost


I just saw the movie and I thought it was pretty good for a superhero movie. Of course, the story is rather cliché and grandiloquent, but that's a design feature of the superhero genre. If you don't like that sort of stuff, you will not like 95% of all superhero movies.

Pine and Gadot make a great team on screen and can make their character interesting and sympathetic (which isn't exactly easy with a character like Wonder Women who is by design an enormous Mary Sue). The psychological evolution of Wonder Women from hoplessly naive to almost cynical was a strong point for a movie genre in which heroes are usualy much more constent and rarelly face their own idiosyncrasy. Even the stereotypical sidekick had a role in Wonder Women psychological development making them pertinent to the story. At least we know why should would miss them a 100 years later.

The action scene were ok, but a bit to heavy on the CGI and the slowmotion. It makes the action less fluid, but it seems to be in fashion in superhero movies since the first Avenger, but at least its better than the atrocious fight scene of the Nolan's Batman movies. To me Wonder Women is not just a powerhouse, she should be shown as having great technique when she fights. You could see a bit of that and I have no doubt that you can find good stunt double or that Gadot herself is capable of performing well with more complexe and advanced choreographies to acheive this.

The pacing wasn't extraordinary, but it doesn't drag to much. The ball scene seems unecessary and long for nothing as was the ending in general. I do think its a strange choice to have Wonder Women kill Ares. He was defeated the moment she refused to follow him. Of course, this is a comic book movie and a God villain, I'm pretty sure he can be brought back to life if need be, especially as a potential villain for the Justice League sure to be sequels.

Overall, a good movie of that type and certainly the best of DC for a long while.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 03:11:27


Post by: Alpharius


It feels like we've entered 'Hot Take' territory now?

Also, isn't using the word 'grandiloquent' grandiloquent?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 03:43:39


Post by: sebster


 Compel wrote:
Venom is most famously a green liquid used by the Batman villain Bane.


In my own personal canon Wonder Woman is now a prequel to Batman & Robin.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 08:38:58


Post by: Compel


Yeah I would have liked a post credits scene of Charon taking Area body in a boat down the River Stix to be greeted by Hades voice (played by either Stephen Fry or Ian McNeice)

"Welcome dearest nephew, your family had been waiting such a long time for you to finally join us."


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 21:54:37


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 Alpharius wrote:

Also, isn't using the word 'grandiloquent' grandiloquent?

Exalted.

And yes.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 22:33:46


Post by: epronovost


 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:

Also, isn't using the word 'grandiloquent' grandiloquent?

Exalted.

And yes.


For my personal education what would the "non-grandiloquent" term to describe grandiloquent things?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 23:01:32


Post by: DarkTraveler777


epronovost wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:

Also, isn't using the word 'grandiloquent' grandiloquent?

Exalted.

And yes.


For my personal education what would the "non-grandiloquent" term to describe grandiloquent things?


Pompous or pretentious immediately come to mind. Highfalutin if you want to be cute about it.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 23:14:02


Post by: epronovost


 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


Pompous or pretentious immediately come to mind. Highfalutin if you want to be cute about it.


Oh, yeah, should have thought about pompous (pretentious isn't exactly the right term there I think). I still think grandiloquent is the most precise term to convey my thoughts on the Wonder Women movie scenario though. Thanks for the help though.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/14 23:27:22


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


epronovost wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:

Also, isn't using the word 'grandiloquent' grandiloquent?

Exalted.

And yes.


For my personal education what would the "non-grandiloquent" term to describe grandiloquent things?


"Snyderish."

?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/15 06:43:19


Post by: sebster


epronovost wrote:
Oh, yeah, should have thought about pompous (pretentious isn't exactly the right term there I think). I still think grandiloquent is the most precise term to convey my thoughts on the Wonder Women movie scenario though. Thanks for the help though.


Bombastic?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/19 16:15:19


Post by: feeder


Saw the movie this weekend with my wife and kids, we all greatly enjoyed it. Apart from a few things (how are two rowboats full of soldiers in hot pursuit of a freaking plane?) it's an excellent, highly enjoyable film. 9/10, would recommend to anyone.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/19 18:05:07


Post by: Crazy_Carnifex


 feeder wrote:
Saw the movie this weekend with my wife and kids, we all greatly enjoyed it. Apart from a few things (how are two rowboats full of soldiers in hot pursuit of a freaking plane?) it's an excellent, highly enjoyable film. 9/10, would recommend to anyone.


The plane must have been intercepted by the destroyer. Rowboats were only launched once the plane was shot down.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/19 22:09:16


Post by: feeder


Ah good point. I forgot about the destroyer.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 11:23:53


Post by: Mr Morden


 feeder wrote:
Ah good point. I forgot about the destroyer.


I think it sunk when it breached the protected area - it was definitely listing heavily.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 16:07:12


Post by: Ouze


You know, I think I know what I like so much about the new Wonder Woman movie after much rumination.

I think to me, she's functionally like Superman. She has a similar skillset, and to an extent, similar powers and even background. But the most recent iterations of Superman have all been so damn... mopey. He's always like a depressed boy scout. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, seems to be more hopeful. She knows she can't save everyone, but she accepts it and doesn't brood. To that effect, Superman having to kill Zod was a horrible choice for him, one he dreaded the possibility of and clearly was haunted by afterward. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, has a goddamn sword and if she needs to moke someone out, she's gonna moke them out and move on.

She's like a better Superman, I think.

To be clear, I'm talking about the Superman we've seen on film for the last what, decade or so? I do think Superman can be great, when done right.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 16:12:25


Post by: Tactical_Spam


 Ouze wrote:
You know, I think I know what I like so much about the new Wonder Woman movie after much rumination.

I think to me, she's functionally like Superman. She has a similar skillset, and to an extent, similar powers and even background. But the most recent iterations of Superman have all been so damn... mopey. He's always like a depressed boy scout. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, seems to be more hopeful. She knows she can't save everyone


I have to stop you right there. The movie made it clear that she didn't understand that she couldn't save everyone. Instead of having her ruminate on this, however, the screen writers forgot that she gave damn.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 18:58:05


Post by: Mr Morden


 Ouze wrote:
You know, I think I know what I like so much about the new Wonder Woman movie after much rumination.

I think to me, she's functionally like Superman. She has a similar skillset, and to an extent, similar powers and even background. But the most recent iterations of Superman have all been so damn... mopey. He's always like a depressed boy scout. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, seems to be more hopeful. She knows she can't save everyone, but she accepts it and doesn't brood. To that effect, Superman having to kill Zod was a horrible choice for him, one he dreaded the possibility of and clearly was haunted by afterward. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, has a goddamn sword and if she needs to moke someone out, she's gonna moke them out and move on.

She's like a better Superman, I think.

To be clear, I'm talking about the Superman we've seen on film for the last what, decade or so? I do think Superman can be great, when done right.



Wonder Woman is trained to be a warrior and to kill her enemies


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 19:51:58


Post by: whembly


 Ouze wrote:
You know, I think I know what I like so much about the new Wonder Woman movie after much rumination.

I think to me, she's functionally like Superman. She has a similar skillset, and to an extent, similar powers and even background. But the most recent iterations of Superman have all been so damn... mopey. He's always like a depressed boy scout. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, seems to be more hopeful. She knows she can't save everyone, but she accepts it and doesn't brood. To that effect, Superman having to kill Zod was a horrible choice for him, one he dreaded the possibility of and clearly was haunted by afterward. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, has a goddamn sword and if she needs to moke someone out, she's gonna moke them out and move on.

She's like a better Superman, I think.

To be clear, I'm talking about the Superman we've seen on film for the last what, decade or so? I do think Superman can be great, when done right.


I think you nailed it for me... as to why I liked WW.

Also, keep in mind that she's an actual goddess with divine abilities, whereas Supes is simply an interesting alien.

But... you're right... Henry Caville's Supes is way to mopey. I fault the writers on that one.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 20:26:53


Post by: Compel


There's this quote from Snyder about Wonder Woman.

[quote "Zack Snyder" wrote]“She offers a unique opportunity to speak to what it is to be a strong, powerful, independent woman. It’s a glance that is necessary in the world, as well as the way that we represent heroes onscreen. Having that equal representation of male and female energy is really important to me. I love that there’s a purity to Wonder Woman. She doesn’t have the broken past, she’s not seeking revenge on people that wronged her. She can just be a hero.”


While, the interview is about Wonder Woman and like I've said, I did really very much enjoy Wonder Woman and, to be honest, I don't want to detract from her but...

It really does show a complete misunderstanding of Superman and, potentially why people have disliked the various things about him in Man of Steel and BVS.

While there are some things I don't particularly love about the 1978 Superman. This still very much nails it.

"They can be a great people, Kal-El; they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son."

The light to show the way, a fundamentally inspirational person. A good person, yet BVS turns that very, well, creepy.



It's not that you couldn't have had much the same film, if there was a more wholesome inspirational Superman. - The Government, after all, would still have been very suspicious of him and there was clear reason for some parts of the population to be angry with him, including Bruce. - The opening scene wouldn't have changed at all.

And it would have made the ending and the sacrifice make more sense. The suspicious, suicidal, PTSD'ed Batman would see and come to understand that, yes, actually, Superman WAS that good. He WAS that much of a hero, he DID give the ultimate sacrifice.

And, perhaps remind the somewhat cynical 'present day' Wonder Woman of the optimism and heroism she had herself and, even though tragedy strikes, people can be inspired through it (AKA Batman), so it wasn't pointless after all. So, the Wonder Woman wouldn't have to be changed either.

Hi I'm Compel, I write long essays really passionately about Superman...


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 20:36:39


Post by: Frazzled


You go boy!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 21:10:36


Post by: feeder


Wait....Supes is Jeebus with more punching and less fishes?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 21:16:26


Post by: Compel


That's not the most original observation... But, some versions, basically, yeah.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/20 22:45:45


Post by: feeder


 Compel wrote:
That's not the most original observation... But, some versions, basically, yeah.


Well, sorry, but I haven't read/watched Superman really before.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/21 02:37:10


Post by: Ahtman


It is amazing how much easier it is to be the wholesome inspirational Superman when you have spent ten years in the Fortress of Solitude being trained and taught as opposed to, oh say, a young man trying to learn who he is and what he can do.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/21 04:04:54


Post by: gorgon


 Ahtman wrote:
It is amazing how much easier it is to be the wholesome inspirational Superman when you have spent ten years in the Fortress of Solitude being trained and taught as opposed to, oh say, a young man trying to learn who he is and what he can do.


Trained...not unlike how Diana, a princess of a mythical people on a magic island, was trained her whole life and treated as though she was special. Of course there's no doubt in her...she was born to greatness, taught to express her abilities, and prepared for her mission even if it wasn't fully revealed to her.

Clark on the other hand had a humble, normal upbringing other than these strange powers of unknown origin. Sometimes they were more troublesome than a boon. Mostly he just wanted to be normal and fit in. So when being Christ from Space is thrust upon him, he's unsure if it's for him and if he's up to the task.

It's almost like this has been thought out pretty well.

You can also see why Clark and Bruce are historically closer in the comics. Clark isn't human but he lives and views himself as one, albeit with superhuman abilities. Diana doesn't see herself as human, and her Diana Prince alter ego has never been as important to her identity. She is Princess Diana of Themyscera basically always. This difference actually made her and Clark an interesting couple in the New 52.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/21 04:45:25


Post by: Ouze


Yeah, I get that mopey superman kind of makes sense. It's just not as fun to watch.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/21 08:37:01


Post by: Compel


I would say, in the Superman depictions I like most, the "being raised in a normalish humble lifestyle" is precisely the training Superman needed to be Superman.

All star Superman" wrote: "Doomed planet. Desperate scientists. Last hope. Kindly couple. Superman."


The idea that, as a morality tale, anyone can be Superman. Sure they can't fly out have eyebeam deathless but they can be Superman all the same. That's a big deal.

It's one of the big things I don't like about Man Of Steel, how not Jonathan Kent like the dad is. And also in BVS, how awful Martha's speech is. Weirdly, Ghost Jonathan in BVS was a whole lot better than MoS.

Superman is a hero, not because of his superpowers but because of a combination of how he was raised and who he innately is. And by the fictional characters in the world seeing Superman and by the audiences watching him they too can see what it's like and hopefully, just maybe, become better people too. Heroes, if you will.

Edit: and to bring this around full circle, someone could deride everything I just wrote there as silly and cheesy and would never work in a modern audience. The counterpoint is, this inspiration is precisely what Wonder Woman managed to invoke. And Superman should be there alongside her.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/22 00:14:00


Post by: Ahtman


 Compel wrote:
someone could deride everything I just wrote there as silly and cheesy and would never work in a modern audience


The real counterpoint is that no one has said that and wasn't the point of contention anyway.

Also the All Star Superman character was once again a Superman at the zenith of his powers and abilities, not a young man just getting started.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/22 00:24:44


Post by: Compel


I was talking generally (hence, "someone") based on various conversations I have had in the past on the subject.

You have my sincerest apologies if you have misinterpreted what I was saying as a personal attack upon you. Everything I have said it's based one hundred percent on my own personal preferred interpretations of the character. The depictions I have enjoyed most.

The all Star Superman quote was a frame for my later responses, particularly the idea of a "kindly couple" being central to Superman's heroism, in my preferred depictions.

You once again have my apologies if I was insufficiently clear on what I was saying, that I was discussing the superman concepts, I personally enjoy.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/22 14:43:50


Post by: Frazzled


Well the wife wants to see it now so of course we will be going Saturday. I will give my two drink review after.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/22 14:54:03


Post by: Tactical_Spam


Are you drinking before or after the movie?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/22 15:38:12


Post by: Frazzled


 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Are you drinking before or after the movie?


YES.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/22 18:29:55


Post by: whembly


 Frazzled wrote:
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Are you drinking before or after the movie?


YES.

Ya'll... that's totes wisdom there.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/23 13:45:36


Post by: jmurph


 Compel wrote:
I would say, in the Superman depictions I like most, the "being raised in a normalish humble lifestyle" is precisely the training Superman needed to be Superman.

All star Superman" wrote: "Doomed planet. Desperate scientists. Last hope. Kindly couple. Superman."


The idea that, as a morality tale, anyone can be Superman. Sure they can't fly out have eyebeam deathless but they can be Superman all the same. That's a big deal.

It's one of the big things I don't like about Man Of Steel, how not Jonathan Kent like the dad is. And also in BVS, how awful Martha's speech is. Weirdly, Ghost Jonathan in BVS was a whole lot better than MoS.

Superman is a hero, not because of his superpowers but because of a combination of how he was raised and who he innately is. And by the fictional characters in the world seeing Superman and by the audiences watching him they too can see what it's like and hopefully, just maybe, become better people too. Heroes, if you will.

Edit: and to bring this around full circle, someone could deride everything I just wrote there as silly and cheesy and would never work in a modern audience. The counterpoint is, this inspiration is precisely what Wonder Woman managed to invoke. And Superman should be there alongside her.


I think you nailed the big problem with MoS as a movie. Superman as a concept is a hopeful, positive savior figure who embraces adversity and inspires. MoS portrayed him as a conflicted, unsure man with greatness thrust upon him. It was a "darker and edgier" take that didn't really work, since you already have Batman covering much of that and it just ends up a dreary slog.

WW shows that audiences do respond well to more positive yarns.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/23 17:41:56


Post by: Compel


I figure some people in this thread might be interested in the new releases from Knight Models.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/26 10:59:42


Post by: Frazzled


OK. The wife loved it. The next day her and the daughter were cackling away like two geeks at a convention.

My view:
1. It was decent (I think I have graduated out of the comic book movie genre for the most part): eminently better than BvS, and better than most of the Marvel films. I thought the pacing was different and the overall storyline was good.
2. I really liked the initial scenes
Spoiler:
That island was just gorgeous. The entrance of the American and the Germans I thought was well done, except of course, Germans appear and Amazons immetiately try to kill them. Wo harsh dude, worse than the Japanese before Perry.

3. I liked the WW culture clash that was cute. Also her powers appear quite impressive. She appears as strong as Superman. Not certain how invulnerable she is but is definitely trained well.
I liked her unabashed stand back god work in progress approach.
4. I thought the initial part with everyone with bad greek accents was cute vs. her Israeli accent.
5. Also
Spoiler:
I really liked when Chris Pine died. The character was annoying.

6. I did not like the references to actual historical people. Killing off legendary characters essential to, well the rise of Hitler, put a damper on it for me. It wasn't needed and was a bit stupid.
7. Rum, pizza and popcorn was good. First time out after the surgery eating popcorn. Yea!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/28 07:49:46


Post by: sebster


 Ouze wrote:
You know, I think I know what I like so much about the new Wonder Woman movie after much rumination.

I think to me, she's functionally like Superman. She has a similar skillset, and to an extent, similar powers and even background. But the most recent iterations of Superman have all been so damn... mopey. He's always like a depressed boy scout. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, seems to be more hopeful. She knows she can't save everyone, but she accepts it and doesn't brood. To that effect, Superman having to kill Zod was a horrible choice for him, one he dreaded the possibility of and clearly was haunted by afterward. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, has a goddamn sword and if she needs to moke someone out, she's gonna moke them out and move on.

She's like a better Superman, I think.

To be clear, I'm talking about the Superman we've seen on film for the last what, decade or so? I do think Superman can be great, when done right.



I think you make a really good point that gets to the core of it. Wonder Woman is an active hero, figuring out how to best use her powers. Superman is a reluctant hero. I'm not saying the reluctant superman approach is necessarily bad, but it is much harder to write, and so far that challenge has been beyond the writers WB has employed. Whereas Wonder Woman, being active and engaged, is much easier to write about.

The other part, which whembly touched on, is that Superman wasn't just reluctant, he was mopey. Outside of his powers, the take on Clark Kent was miserable as well. I mean, they somehow managed to make it look like sharing a bath with Amy Adams was an insufferable chore.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/28 22:07:43


Post by: AegisGrimm


Yeah, Diana is Clark without the "Ho, Hum" face and bouts of depression.

Although maybe Clark's problem is that he suddenly realized that during fighting Zod, they probably caused the deaths of half as many people as the World Engine.

My wife and I loved the movie. The scene as she steps up into no-man's land is just plain awesome. So far, Wonder Woman is all about technique and Clark is just unbridled destruction.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/29 08:54:38


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Just going by this movie and Man of Steel, the difference seems to be that Superman is heroic because he performs heroic deeds. Wonder Woman, by comparison, inspire those around her to rise above themselves (as well as seriously prodding buttock when required).

Compare the scene where Superman rescues people from a burning building and the bystanders touch him like he's a god to the bit in Wonder Woman where she charges a German trench, and the Tommies charge after her. They're both superhuman gods, but one inspires dependency and the other empowerment.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/29 11:15:48


Post by: Frazzled


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Just going by this movie and Man of Steel, the difference seems to be that Superman is heroic because he performs heroic deeds. Wonder Woman, by comparison, inspire those around her to rise above themselves (as well as seriously prodding buttock when required).

Compare the scene where Superman rescues people from a burning building and the bystanders touch him like he's a god to the bit in Wonder Woman where she charges a German trench, and the Tommies charge after her. They're both superhuman gods, but one inspires dependency and the other empowerment.


In contrast I like her "I'm here to kill a guy" mindset. Stalking the guy in the middle of the party was fun to watch.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/30 00:49:37


Post by: AegisGrimm


Yeah, I liked the awe on the faces of the guys in the trenches, as opposed to the creepy feelings of the crowds from BvS (though there it was kind of intended).

Part of that is possibly gender-based, though. Superman triggers feelings of raw power and impressive strength, where Wonder Woman gives me that "she's here to save and inspire us" feeling. At least for me, that is.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/30 01:35:40


Post by: Compel


It wasn't "kind of intended" - it was the specifically chosen impact of that scene. - EG in that same montage. "Human beings have a horrible track record of following people with great power down paths that have led to huge human atrocities."

It's all about the framing / lighting / design of the scenes and the choices made.

EG, compare and contrast the: "I certainly hope this little incident hasn't put you off flying, miss. Statistically speaking, of course, it's still the safest way to travel."

Now I'm not saying that version is my preferred (I do find the 1978 Superman actually a bit too saccharine, to be honest. I'm always for a bit more of a midground, where an Injustice style situation isn't going to happen to the main Superman character but it's not an irrational worry to question... What if?) However, it's a good example of how essentially the same character can be portrayed in different ways depending on how you want him to be portrayed. Snyder chose one way, Donner chose another.

However, being a Wonder Woman thread. I have no concerns about how they portrayed Wonder Woman in the film - There can be more than 1 heroic, inspiring character in a universe. And Wonder Woman certainly should (and is) one.

My main sort of issue with the film is more a wider universe thing of:

Spoiler:
The whole killing of all the gods situation. I mean, sure, it can be played with a bit (EG, knowing that Ares is coming to kill him, Poseidon granted his Trident to the safeguard of Atlantis and the Ruling Family).

Plus, well, they're gods... And, well, Hades is a God... Of the Underworld... The Realm of the Dead. So.... No reason the whole 'killing the gods' thing needs to be permanent after all.

If you remember one of my earlier posts, my vote is still for Ian McNeice or Stephen Fry as Hades.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/30 15:37:41


Post by: paulson games


Went to go see it a second time and I noticed that it has some strong core themes shared with The Fifth Element, character is the ultimate living weapon against the ultimate evil, speaks a million languages and has an extensive knowledge despite never being in the human world before. Crisis of faith when she sees the horrors of humanity revealed but swayed back to action by belief that the value of love surpasses all the horrible things we do to each other.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/30 15:59:31


Post by: Frazzled


OOOH good points!


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/30 17:15:02


Post by: paulson games


Also helped by a secret agent who would normally be the main liner with strong abilities and charisma but fluctuates between lead and second chair as the heroine develops her strengths and struggles with moments of self doubt. Provides her support without out shining her when his character would be equally well qualified as the sole character in an action role.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/30 21:25:09


Post by: AegisGrimm


I like the idea that in some versions of the setting, Clark and Diana are actually a good match for each other. But man, that could never happen in the current movie universe, lol! I don't think that even after all these years Diana is half as jaded as Clark started out.

But that's the fault of the director. So far, Supes has been set up to be super depressed and pitiable. I blame the current situation where at least half the heroes in books and movies are flawed, sad, reluctant heroes with tons of baggage.

In any sane setting, Superman would have gone public with his intentions and feelings towards his "purpose" in life to save and help people, and he and Bruce would never have been enemies, either (at least from his side; Bruce is always crazy paranoid about everything). There's a reason he's The Boyscout. But then again, Jon Kent basically screwed him up bad in this iteration.

I think that's why Wonder Woman was refreshing. Her whole purpose from the start was to be a force for good.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/06/30 22:52:42


Post by: Compel


I'm not a fan of New 52 Clark and Diana from the animated movies. It just feels plain wrong.


However, the Kingdom Come style Clark and Diana, that's kind of interesting. Or a far future Clark and Diana, the immortals finding themselves together after their mortal loves have passed away. That I can get behind.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/01 06:11:16


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Finally managed to see this. Thought it was quite good, very enjoyable, and perhaps the first good DC film of their new universe.

I was very surprised at Chris Pine's performance. Probably the best I've ever seen him give.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/03 04:55:56


Post by: sebster


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I was very surprised at Chris Pine's performance. Probably the best I've ever seen him give.


I really liked him in Hell or High Water. And I think the only things I've seen him in are Wonder Woman, Hell or High Water and the Star Trek movies. So it's possible he's a good performer who just isn't a very good Kirk.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/03 09:54:31


Post by: Frazzled


Yes he was excellent in that film.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/03 10:06:34


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I think what I liked about the film most was actually twofold:

Steve Trevor, and especially his sacrifice. It was very reminiscent of Steve Rogers putting the Hydra super plane down... except it actually made sense, and was a real sacrifice. The way he pulls that pistol, then just pauses as he realises what he's about to do, then does it anyway.

Diana's complete refusal to do what everyone else is doing when they're at the front. Basically her whole "This is ridiculous! Why won't any of you do something about this? I'm doing something about it!!!" before jumping into the No Man's Land and, eventually, leading the charge.



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/04 17:27:58


Post by: Paradigm


Finally got to seeing it, top notch stuff. Only real complaint (and it's a minor one) is the overuse of slo-mo taking a lot of the oomph out of a few of the action scenes, but other than that, very competently put together, an excellent example of the classic superhero film. While I particularly like the DCU's version of Superman (the further you get from that version of the character, the less interesting I tend to find him), this universe needed a 'proper' hero, and WW fills that role nicely.

Also, the new DC title sequence thing is just awesome. Very reminiscent of the JLTAS opening credits, and a joy to see after Marvel switched theirs from the traditional flick-book comic panels to the far inferior selection of shots from their own movies.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/09 02:16:17


Post by: trexmeyer


 Paradigm wrote:
Finally got to seeing it, top notch stuff. Only real complaint (and it's a minor one) is the overuse of slo-mo taking a lot of the oomph out of a few of the action scenes.
.


To this day the park bench scene in Bourne Identity remains the definitive "this guy/girl is a bad ass" fight. I think Watchmen went for something similar with the Ozymandias fight...

Unless it's brilliantly choreographed (Duel of the Fates) and opponents on equal footing, less is more.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/09 03:12:09


Post by: Thargrim


 sebster wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I was very surprised at Chris Pine's performance. Probably the best I've ever seen him give.


I really liked him in Hell or High Water. And I think the only things I've seen him in are Wonder Woman, Hell or High Water and the Star Trek movies. So it's possible he's a good performer who just isn't a very good Kirk.


Well to be fair imo only the first of the ST reboot series was good, they got worse with each one. And the last one ST Beyond hit rock bottom....why have the director of fast and the furious direct star trek? What kind of idiot would allow that to even happen...bad script, story, acting. He didn't exactly have good material to work with in star trek.

Eh, well I still haven't seen wonder woman....might see it later tonight.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/13 14:37:29


Post by: Easy E


My family and I finally got to see it. I was a bit surprised by my wife and daughter's reactions.

My daughter found the "fish out of water" scenes really cringy and did not like them at all.

My wife told me she found Imperator Furiousa from Mad Mx: Fury Road to be a more inspiring character for her.

Both of them were not super impressed that her "true" potential was not unlocked until she got angry about what happened to Steve instead of it being unlocke by her realization that humanity was flawed, but she would protect them despite that fact. I guess I would argue it required both things to happen for her to get where she needed to be.

Question: Since Ares is defeated and Ludendorff is also defeated does that mean there is no WWII in the WB 'verse?



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/13 17:33:28


Post by: Frazzled


Well Hitler wasn't involved so...


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/14 00:44:19


Post by: Compel


Part of the moral of the story was about humanity taking responsibility for its own actions.

Ares didn't cause WW1 and, he ultimately wasn't responsible for the conditions that would cause WW2 and humanity fighting WW2.

Humans were. Or more specifically, mans inhumanity to man was. All Ares did was stoke the flames a little in the direction that he suited his plans.

As for Ludendorrf, well, someone else would have always just stepped into that gap.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/14 05:05:15


Post by: Thargrim


 Easy E wrote:
My family and I finally got to see it. I was a bit surprised by my wife and daughter's reactions.

My daughter found the "fish out of water" scenes really cringy and did not like them at all.

My wife told me she found Imperator Furiousa from Mad Mx: Fury Road to be a more inspiring character for her.

Both of them were not super impressed that her "true" potential was not unlocked until she got angry about what happened to Steve instead of it being unlocke by her realization that humanity was flawed, but she would protect them despite that fact. I guess I would argue it required both things to happen for her to get where she needed to be.

Question: Since Ares is defeated and Ludendorff is also defeated does that mean there is no WWII in the WB 'verse?



I saw it finally and thought it was alright, better than most other superhero movies. The action scenes got a little over the top as well. But yeah her naivety and stuff was a bit much at times. Maybe now that she is more developed the next one will be better for it.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/14 16:37:10


Post by: AduroT


 Compel wrote:
Part of the moral of the story was about humanity taking responsibility for its own actions.

Ares didn't cause WW1 and, he ultimately wasn't responsible for the conditions that would cause WW2 and humanity fighting WW2.

Humans were. Or more specifically, mans inhumanity to man was. All Ares did was stoke the flames a little in the direction that he suited his plans.

As for Ludendorrf, well, someone else would have always just stepped into that gap.


Which is why I wish they had completely left Aries out of the movie. Showing him whispering to the antagonists gives plenty of reasonable doubt that he helped push the was despite his claim it's all humanity's fault. Should have left him and that doubt completely out of the equation.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/14 17:34:55


Post by: Frazzled


 AduroT wrote:
 Compel wrote:
Part of the moral of the story was about humanity taking responsibility for its own actions.

Ares didn't cause WW1 and, he ultimately wasn't responsible for the conditions that would cause WW2 and humanity fighting WW2.

Humans were. Or more specifically, mans inhumanity to man was. All Ares did was stoke the flames a little in the direction that he suited his plans.

As for Ludendorrf, well, someone else would have always just stepped into that gap.


Which is why I wish they had completely left Aries out of the movie. Showing him whispering to the antagonists gives plenty of reasonable doubt that he helped push the was despite his claim it's all humanity's fault. Should have left him and that doubt completely out of the equation.


What kind of finish would you have replaced it with? As a similar problem with Superman, the hero is so powerful an adequate villain is problematic no?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/14 17:45:43


Post by: MDSW


With the...
Spoiler:
dual, antagonist battle ending, you saw a very underpowered WW fighting the General, who really seemed underpowered. I thought his secret 'sniff' would have made him a better challenge. However, with the realization after killing General L, the war was not over and then Ares appears, then to move onto a suitable final battle and WW discovers her real power - OK, I can buy into it, but was still disappointed in the prerequisite battle with the General.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/14 18:59:50


Post by: gorgon


 Compel wrote:
Part of the moral of the story was about humanity taking responsibility for its own actions.

Ares didn't cause WW1 and, he ultimately wasn't responsible for the conditions that would cause WW2 and humanity fighting WW2.

Humans were. Or more specifically, mans inhumanity to man was. All Ares did was stoke the flames a little in the direction that he suited his plans.

As for Ludendorrf, well, someone else would have always just stepped into that gap.



Wasn't that the essence of Diana's arc during the film? At first, she's naive enough to believe that war is an outside force, and that killing Ares means an end to it. Hippolyta knows better, and so does Steve. Then Diana sees to man's cruelty to man for herself and learns that it's not as simple as she thought, although her naivete also propels her to take action where others won't. This didn't seem particularly opaque or complicated to me...it was right there in the dialogue.


Regarding the gods, I hope they're not 'dead' in the DCEU. I re-read Azzarello's run on the WW comic recently (which is tremendous, FYI), and it's her interactions with her 'family' from Olympus that really made that book and served to spark some interesting stories.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/14 22:34:34


Post by: AduroT


 Frazzled wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 Compel wrote:
Part of the moral of the story was about humanity taking responsibility for its own actions.

Ares didn't cause WW1 and, he ultimately wasn't responsible for the conditions that would cause WW2 and humanity fighting WW2.

Humans were. Or more specifically, mans inhumanity to man was. All Ares did was stoke the flames a little in the direction that he suited his plans.

As for Ludendorrf, well, someone else would have always just stepped into that gap.


Which is why I wish they had completely left Aries out of the movie. Showing him whispering to the antagonists gives plenty of reasonable doubt that he helped push the was despite his claim it's all humanity's fault. Should have left him and that doubt completely out of the equation.


What kind of finish would you have replaced it with? As a similar problem with Superman, the hero is so powerful an adequate villain is problematic no?


Make the General and his super soldier gas a bigger fight. Maybe even have the Doctor gas several of the other nearby soldiers with it too. Doesn't need to go full cgi spectacle that her bout against Magneto did. She could still use some powerful finishing move to end it, and then have a mid/after credit scene of someone in some distant land implied to be Aries responding to the shockwave of power released from said finishing move.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/17 15:45:36


Post by: gorgon


I don't think it'd make any in-universe sense that the proto-venom concoction would allow normal humans to tussle with gods and demigods.

More importantly, your ending basically removes the entire birthright component to Diana's arc. There's no point to even making her the daughter of Zeus if she isn't going to confront her heritage and destiny. Personally, I think your ending would land flatter than Smallville, Kansas.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/17 22:38:23


Post by: AegisGrimm


 gorgon wrote:
Personally, I think your ending would land flatter than Smallville, Kansas.


Before, or after Clark flattened it further?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/17 22:39:38


Post by: Compel


I'm more inclined to blame Magog for that.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/18 06:52:34


Post by: AduroT


 gorgon wrote:
I don't think it'd make any in-universe sense that the proto-venom concoction would allow normal humans to tussle with gods and demigods.

More importantly, your ending basically removes the entire birthright component to Diana's arc. There's no point to even making her the daughter of Zeus if she isn't going to confront her heritage and destiny. Personally, I think your ending would land flatter than Smallville, Kansas.


It's kind of lame when you achieve your destiny in episode one though.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/18 15:38:56


Post by: gorgon


 AduroT wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
I don't think it'd make any in-universe sense that the proto-venom concoction would allow normal humans to tussle with gods and demigods.

More importantly, your ending basically removes the entire birthright component to Diana's arc. There's no point to even making her the daughter of Zeus if she isn't going to confront her heritage and destiny. Personally, I think your ending would land flatter than Smallville, Kansas.


It's kind of lame when you achieve your destiny in episode one though.


Well, based on how the DCEU was being received up to that point, you can't blame the filmmakers for not planning for it to be a 3-movie tale.

There's talk that the sequel may be announced at Comic-Con, as two unnamed movies have been added to the DCEU schedule. One could be WW2, although there's also talk about the Batman movie, JL Dark, Shazam, GL Corps, SS2, Batgirl, etc. If I was WB, I'd be focusing on WW2, Batman, and a freakin' Man of Steel sequel over some of these lesser properties, but what do I know?


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/18 16:04:55


Post by: Mr Morden


 gorgon wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
I don't think it'd make any in-universe sense that the proto-venom concoction would allow normal humans to tussle with gods and demigods.

More importantly, your ending basically removes the entire birthright component to Diana's arc. There's no point to even making her the daughter of Zeus if she isn't going to confront her heritage and destiny. Personally, I think your ending would land flatter than Smallville, Kansas.


It's kind of lame when you achieve your destiny in episode one though.


Well, based on how the DCEU was being received up to that point, you can't blame the filmmakers for not planning for it to be a 3-movie tale.

There's talk that the sequel may be announced at Comic-Con, as two unnamed movies have been added to the DCEU schedule. One could be WW2, although there's also talk about the Batman movie, JL Dark, Shazam, GL Corps, SS2, Batgirl, etc. If I was WB, I'd be focusing on WW2, Batman, and a freakin' Man of Steel sequel over some of these lesser properties, but what do I know?


Wonder Woman was a major hit with everyone - to not do a sequal would indeed be .....odd.
Batman and Superman were good in the BvS movie (not as good as WW but hey) and I doubt were damaged by the whole Loopy Lex nonsense in that film

Supergirl could be good if they can ride the wave.

Guess alot depends on Justice League


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/18 17:07:17


Post by: Compel


Shazam would be interesting, it's be difficult to strike a balance for but done right it could be somewhat similar in tone to Spider-Man Homecoming.

Green lantern, maybe a John Stewart story would work.

There's also all these tasks about a Rock Black Adam movie too.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/18 17:42:31


Post by: gorgon


The talk is that it'll be 'Green Lantern Corps' and feature Hal Jordan and John Stewart in a 'buddy cop' kind of story.

The situation with the Rock is weird. It seems like they signed him for that role without a script or even firm-ish plans for a film in place. There was some recent rumorage that Black Adam isn't even in the current Shazam screenplay. Meanwhile projects like Batman, Batgirl, Gotham City Sirens, etc. at least have directors attached to them. Hard to know what's going on there.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/18 17:55:19


Post by: Compel


Know what, that could actually be kinda fun. A bit too "Lethal Weapon" IN SPAAAAACCCEEEEE steretypical, but it could still be fun.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/19 17:55:56


Post by: Frazzled


 Mr Morden wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
I don't think it'd make any in-universe sense that the proto-venom concoction would allow normal humans to tussle with gods and demigods.

More importantly, your ending basically removes the entire birthright component to Diana's arc. There's no point to even making her the daughter of Zeus if she isn't going to confront her heritage and destiny. Personally, I think your ending would land flatter than Smallville, Kansas.


It's kind of lame when you achieve your destiny in episode one though.


Well, based on how the DCEU was being received up to that point, you can't blame the filmmakers for not planning for it to be a 3-movie tale.

There's talk that the sequel may be announced at Comic-Con, as two unnamed movies have been added to the DCEU schedule. One could be WW2, although there's also talk about the Batman movie, JL Dark, Shazam, GL Corps, SS2, Batgirl, etc. If I was WB, I'd be focusing on WW2, Batman, and a freakin' Man of Steel sequel over some of these lesser properties, but what do I know?


Wonder Woman was a major hit with everyone - to not do a sequal would indeed be .....odd.
Batman and Superman were good in the BvS movie (not as good as WW but hey) and I doubt were damaged by the whole Loopy Lex nonsense in that film

Supergirl could be good if they can ride the wave.

Guess alot depends on Justice League


I would have to disagree. I think B vs. S almost sank the entire franchise. If JL is not good I think that whole thing is done.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/19 18:15:54


Post by: gorgon


 Frazzled wrote:
I would have to disagree. I think B vs. S almost sank the entire franchise. If JL is not good I think that whole thing is done.


Did it really though? BvS made a lot of money. And the very next DC film was similarly attacked by critics and made a lot of money. I think both films also did well on Blu-Ray too. WW also didn't seem affected by any lingering DC 'taint'...it opened better than most forecasts predicted.

While I don't think audiences fully embraced either BvS or SS, I don't think the general public was as down on them as geek forums and comments sections would have you believe. There's a sizable segment of the public that probably doesn't even have a clear idea of which films are Marvel and which are DC. They're just superhero films to them.

To your point though, obviously WB decided that course corrections needed to be made. And given that so many of the films in development are Batman-related (Batman, Gotham City Sirens, Batgirl, Nightwing), it seems clear that their backup plan in the event of JL failing is for a Batman Extended Universe.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 02:51:21


Post by: Alpharius


 gorgon wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I would have to disagree. I think B vs. S almost sank the entire franchise. If JL is not good I think that whole thing is done.


Did it really though? BvS made a lot of money. And the very next DC film was similarly attacked by critics and made a lot of money. I think both films also did well on Blu-Ray too. WW also didn't seem affected by any lingering DC 'taint'...it opened better than most forecasts predicted.

While I don't think audiences fully embraced either BvS or SS, I don't think the general public was as down on them as geek forums and comments sections would have you believe. There's a sizable segment of the public that probably doesn't even have a clear idea of which films are Marvel and which are DC. They're just superhero films to them.

To your point though, obviously WB decided that course corrections needed to be made. And given that so many of the films in development are Batman-related (Batman, Gotham City Sirens, Batgirl, Nightwing), it seems clear that their backup plan in the event of JL failing is for a Batman Extended Universe.


Well said all around - and exalted!



Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 08:20:07


Post by: Mr Morden


 gorgon wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I would have to disagree. I think B vs. S almost sank the entire franchise. If JL is not good I think that whole thing is done.


Did it really though? BvS made a lot of money. And the very next DC film was similarly attacked by critics and made a lot of money. I think both films also did well on Blu-Ray too. WW also didn't seem affected by any lingering DC 'taint'...it opened better than most forecasts predicted.

While I don't think audiences fully embraced either BvS or SS, I don't think the general public was as down on them as geek forums and comments sections would have you believe. There's a sizable segment of the public that probably doesn't even have a clear idea of which films are Marvel and which are DC. They're just superhero films to them.

To your point though, obviously WB decided that course corrections needed to be made. And given that so many of the films in development are Batman-related (Batman, Gotham City Sirens, Batgirl, Nightwing), it seems clear that their backup plan in the event of JL failing is for a Batman Extended Universe.


BvS was deeply flawed - the lead villain was a poor joke of a "character" with a worse plot, in contrast the hero's were great - esp WW>

Suicide Squad had so much promise and was enjoyable but again plot and pacing were not what it could have been.

Wonder Woman was fantastic up there with the top Marvel films. JL is hopefully in the same vein.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 08:55:27


Post by: sebster


 gorgon wrote:
The talk is that it'll be 'Green Lantern Corps' and feature Hal Jordan and John Stewart in a 'buddy cop' kind of story.

The situation with the Rock is weird. It seems like they signed him for that role without a script or even firm-ish plans for a film in place. There was some recent rumorage that Black Adam isn't even in the current Shazam screenplay. Meanwhile projects like Batman, Batgirl, Gotham City Sirens, etc. at least have directors attached to them. Hard to know what's going on there.


Marlon Wayans got signed to play Robin in Batman Returns, but got cut. He still gets royalty cheques to this day. Batman is an 'any expense necessary this cannot fail' property for Warner Bros. They had a chance to sign a big name like the Rock, so they got him signed up. If they end up pissing that money away, well WB seems okay with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gorgon wrote:
Did it really though? BvS made a lot of money. And the very next DC film was similarly attacked by critics and made a lot of money. I think both films also did well on Blu-Ray too. WW also didn't seem affected by any lingering DC 'taint'...it opened better than most forecasts predicted.


Yep, if anything what the studios would have learned with BvS and SS is that these properties are big draws even when they stink. A franchise model that needs to keep producing good movies every single time is a dangerous business model, because you cannot guarantee quality - even the best directors will miss every so often. But a franchise that can break half a billion regularly even when the final product stinks is treasured by studios.

The only other issue would be if the failings of MoS, BvS and SS started dragging down subsequent movies. As you say that didn't happen. SS was really the surprising one to me, as after the last two movies I would have thought critics coming out and saying 'this one also sucks' would have had an impact, but it didn't.

To your point though, obviously WB decided that course corrections needed to be made. And given that so many of the films in development are Batman-related (Batman, Gotham City Sirens, Batgirl, Nightwing), it seems clear that their backup plan in the event of JL failing is for a Batman Extended Universe.


Interesting observation. I'd guess you're right. Either that or there's just more cinematic material among Batman's cast than the other DC properties.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 10:34:43


Post by: Compel


I think part of it is that Batman related stories are easier to write passable stories. Even at its laziest you could do a mediocre Batman story by taking a plot from the 11ty billion CSI shows and add in a punch up at the beginning middle and end


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 19:58:51


Post by: gorgon


That, and I think it's mostly that Batman has been money in the bank for WB going back decades.

So apparently Shazam will be the next DCEU film to shoot, probably for a 2019 release, and helmed by the director of Lights Out, Kung Fury, etc.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 20:21:35


Post by: Easy E


 gorgon wrote:
That, and I think it's mostly that Batman has been money in the bank for WB going back decades.

So apparently Shazam will be the next DCEU film to shoot, probably for a 2019 release, and helmed by the director of Lights Out, Kung Fury, etc.


Shazam is one of my favorite characters from DC because he has Superman like powers, but child-like vision of right and wrong. There are so many good morality tales you can tell with this set-up.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 21:09:14


Post by: Paradigm


I think the perfect Shazam film would be one that heavily featured Superman as a mentor character, helping Billy master his powers, understand the responsibility that goes with them and ultimately coming away with a renewed faith in those around him. It gives people the inspiring, optimistic Superman they've been asking for, it has an established character in a supporting role for all the people who'd otherwise not bother with a film about a kid who says magic word to get god powers, and it provides an in if they ever want Shazam in the League in future.

The dynamic has a lot of potential; Superman teaches Shazam to be a better hero than the circumstances of this universe allowed himself to be, and Shazam shows Superman that he can still be the inspiring, hopeful figure that things like the death of Zod, destruction of Metropolis and showdown with Batman convinced him he couldn't.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 22:08:24


Post by: Compel


Shazam written properly could be DC's equivalent of "Spider-man: Homecoming."

The character is essentially the definition of a childhood fantasy. A kid, an orphan no less, the most powerless becomes one of the most powerful heroes.

You then bring in the other kids and a substory of the child that doesn't have any trust and faith in people, ends up finding trust in the other children, just as HE finds people looking up to HIS alter ego.

Written properly, it'd be a great, classic, archetypical tale.

Although, I don't think Black Adam is the right 'villain' for the story. One of the most interesting things about Adam is that he exists in the shades of grey of the DC universe (EG everything he does is out of love, for his people, his home, his country, his lost love). That's more a tale for a more mature, nuanced Shazam, where he finds out the world isn't as simple as he used to believe it was. In other words, a sequel.

Instead, for a first film, I'd be looking for a more straight forward villain. I don't know enough about Shazam stories to say what kind. Some kind of monster type maybe, someone unambiguously 'bad' that he must find strength in himself and others to overcome.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 22:27:52


Post by: gorgon


Shazam has "Marvel formula" written all over it. But WB appears to be focusing on directors with vision these days, so who knows what his pitch was to the brass there.

And I think the end of BvS has already nicely set the table for Superman. The world now recognizes his sacrifice and selflessness, and he now fully embraces his duty through his love for Lois.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/20 22:45:53


Post by: Compel


I think we're going to have a period of "evil Supes" first (perhaps enslaved by Darkseid).

Then likely involving Lois apparently being killed, or nearly killed.

However, Lois is saved at the last moment thanks to Batman (Lois.. she's the key).

Then we have a "power of love" situation that brings Superman back to the good guys, allowing him to wreck face and save the day.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/21 13:23:12


Post by: gorgon


I think that *was* the plan...basically the Injustice scenario. Snyder even seemed to be using a lot of Injustice design elements. It wouldn't surprise me if evil Supes would have been part of the cliffhanger back when there was going to be a part 1 and 2 to JL. But those plans were in place before BvS landed like it did and had everyone screaming about 'tone'. And the landscape has changed at WB since then, with Johns in charge and trumpeting positivity everywhere.

The guy who runs Batman-on-Film -- who has been privy to some things in the past -- is saying that the JL reshoots and the work that Whedon is doing/has done are more extensive than WB is letting on. And he recently said "unequivocally no" regarding evil Superman. We'll see if he's right.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/22 16:33:46


Post by: Alpharius


gorgon wrote:Shazam has "Marvel formula" written all over it. But WB appears to be focusing on directors with vision these days, so who knows what his pitch was to the brass there.

And I think the end of BvS has already nicely set the table for Superman. The world now recognizes his sacrifice and selflessness, and he now fully embraces his duty through his love for Lois.


I hope you're right!

gorgon wrote:I think that *was* the plan...basically the Injustice scenario. Snyder even seemed to be using a lot of Injustice design elements. It wouldn't surprise me if evil Supes would have been part of the cliffhanger back when there was going to be a part 1 and 2 to JL. But those plans were in place before BvS landed like it did and had everyone screaming about 'tone'. And the landscape has changed at WB since then, with Johns in charge and trumpeting positivity everywhere.

The guy who runs Batman-on-Film -- who has been privy to some things in the past -- is saying that the JL reshoots and the work that Whedon is doing/has done are more extensive than WB is letting on. And he recently said "unequivocally no" regarding evil Superman. We'll see if he's right.


I really hope he's right too!

WW shows that you can indeed have a positive, hopeful hero and still make a good movie.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/22 16:42:33


Post by: Paradigm


Evil Superman would be a bad idea this soon after BvS. Even with mind control or whatever, it undermines the ending of BvS where they should be doubling down on Hero Superman going forward. Not only is that the Superman everyone wants to see and that they've been building to for a while now, but it means that if they ever want to do the Injustice scenario down the line it'll be far more effective.

If we get an Evil Superman at some point, I would much rather it be the focus of its own Injustice style fall from grace for sort-of valid reasons than a cheap 'he's mind controlled so we can have a big fight scene' cop out. Of course, they could do both, but really, we've had enough hero fighting hero for a while now.


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/22 16:44:38


Post by: Alpharius


 Paradigm wrote:
Of course, they could do both, but really, we've had enough hero fighting hero for a while now.


Agreed!

There's plenty of really bad guys for the good guys to fight - and I'm not even sure Darkseid proper is going to be in much - if any - for the first Justice League movie...


Wonder Woman Movie Discussion @ 2017/07/22 16:49:27


Post by: Paradigm


Yeah, a few scenes of mulching Parademons by the dozen and a big final throwdown with Steppenwolf will be more than satisfactory even if Darkseid is only teased or appears briefly. So long as they can avoid the Thanos trap that I think Marvel have fallen into DS will make a great villain to up the stakes in a following JL movie.

Thanos will have been teased for 6 years by the time Infinity War rolls around, and at that point it'll be very hard for him to actually live up to that much hype on screen. But in theory, JL 1 and 2 will follow much more rapidly, so there's less chance of overegging the Supervillain hype pudding.