Heh. The scene at the very end of the video is amusing.
Could be good. We'll see. It looks like they're moving away from the very limited number of troops in the second game, and back toward the bigger battles of the first.
Taldeer threatens rebellion in the video. While we don't know the circumstances, that's an unusual move for an Eldar.
General Annoyance wrote: My expectations from DOW3 dropped from "might turn out to be good" to zero expectations once it hid under the radar for nearly 2 months.
Why? There's nothing wrong with slowly releasing more details as development continues.
Game development time, especially for a complex game like an RTS, is measured in years, not weeks or months. Sometimes game devs just want to focus on, you know, making an actual good game, breaking bugs, and etc. In fact, if for example they announce they are delaying the release of the game in order to fix bugs, that will bring my hopes UP, not down, because it means that they actually fething care about their game.
I know this violates the basic tenets of hype culture, but I just don't care about hype culture.
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Eumerin wrote: Heh. The scene at the very end of the video is amusing.
It's a very Orky scene. "Oi, you gits, you forgot about me?"
Why? There's nothing wrong with slowly releasing more details as development continues.
Game development time, especially for a complex game like an RTS, is measured in years, not weeks or months. Sometimes game devs just want to focus on, you know, making an actual good game, breaking bugs, and etc. In fact, if for example they announce they are delaying the release of the game in order to fix bugs, that will bring my hopes UP, not down, because it means that they actually fething care about their game.
I know this violates the basic tenets of hype culture, but I just don't care about hype culture.
I don't like hype culture either. However, there is a difference between hyping a game up and supplying information to potential buyers so that they remain interested. We haven't even seen a peep from the game's multiplayer, despite the game being available to the general public two times now (if I'm not mistaken).
I get very worried about games coming out that seemingly vanish from gaming news, because it usually means that the devs have nothing good to say to encourage the notion that the game is going to be worth your money. This is especially true of recent 40k disappointments, in both Eternal Crusade and Deathwing.
I also get suspicious when game devs make animated trailers in the gap between the game having received coverage already and their launch day, where you can naturally expect a launch trailer with all sorts of wacky stuff going on. If they have the time and the resources to make a trailer akin to a game launch one, then that either means this game is practically ready for release, or the devs have their priorities in a tangle.
Releasing nothing but a pre rendered trailer with chunks of gameplay that we've already seen in between is not going to change my opinion, especially when there hasn't been a press release in months detailing any progress, or even a potential release date other than "2017".
EDIT: I understand the point you're making about game devs putting in effort, and that resulting in less of a priority in marketing/exposure. I'm not asking them to hype up the game to me - hype's something that needs to go. Even so, it'd be nice to have some more information on what DOW3 is trying to achieve other than "we've brought back base building, and an alternating campaign", two things I don't care for, or are very innovative in this genre.
Ironically that aint it, from GW's official site itself.
Wraithknights are still dextrous enough to run through the ruin of a shattered city, leaping from pillar to spar as their arcane weapons bring oblivion to the enemies of the Eldar.
And from it's codex.
The clarity of thought provided by the living twin ensures that the construct moves with the speed typical of a living Eldar, while the psychic link of the departed sibling allows him to commune with the animating forces of his twin, but also spirits of former pilots of the construct. The great measure of control afforded by this mind gives the pilot mastery over the Wraithknights psychically-powered weapons systems and an acrobatic grace that seemingly defies its size.
Ironically that aint it, from GW's official site itself.
Wraithknights are still dextrous enough to run through the ruin of a shattered city, leaping from pillar to spar as their arcane weapons bring oblivion to the enemies of the Eldar.
And from it's codex.
The clarity of thought provided by the living twin ensures that the construct moves with the speed typical of a living Eldar, while the psychic link of the departed sibling allows him to commune with the animating forces of his twin, but also spirits of former pilots of the construct. The great measure of control afforded by this mind gives the pilot mastery over the Wraithknights psychically-powered weapons systems and an acrobatic grace that seemingly defies its size.
i thought Wraith constructs required a spirit seer baby sitter to move at that speed, or is that just Wraith Guard?
Wraith Knights require specifically twins, one dead and one living and both are placed within the construct as a result it is one of the most cognizant of all the Wraith Constructs.
The only one's close would be the Wraith Seer, being born of a farseer's spirit stone, and the Apocalypse sized Wraith's as they are piloted by the living.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Wraith Knights require specifically twins, one dead and one living and both are placed within the construct as a result it is one of the most cognizant of all the Wraith Constructs.
Eldar technology is just, uh, give me a good old fashioned Daemon bound to Machine's spirit any day.
Ironically that aint it, from GW's official site itself.
Wraithknights are still dextrous enough to run through the ruin of a shattered city, leaping from pillar to spar as their arcane weapons bring oblivion to the enemies of the Eldar.
And from it's codex.
The clarity of thought provided by the living twin ensures that the construct moves with the speed typical of a living Eldar, while the psychic link of the departed sibling allows him to commune with the animating forces of his twin, but also spirits of former pilots of the construct. The great measure of control afforded by this mind gives the pilot mastery over the Wraithknights psychically-powered weapons systems and an acrobatic grace that seemingly defies its size.
Even that's not impressive in comparison to a Phantom. A Phantom is roughly the same size as a Warlord titan. And yet, instead of void shields, it relies on holo fields and evasion to avoid taking damage from enemy fire.
In short, the Eldar don't build things that lumber, no matter how big the thing in question is.
Although both the Wraithguard and the Wraithlord in DOW2 were slow and steady units.
I like the idea of Wraith Constructs marching very slowly most of the time, only to surprise the enemy from time to time with incredibly agile (and scary) manoeuvres for things of their size.
General Annoyance wrote: I get very worried about games coming out that seemingly vanish from gaming news
They didn't. It was only a couple months-- and even then, it was only a couple months between big high profile trailers, not between publicity releases as a whole. They've released unit spotlights on a not-quite-weekly schedule in the intervening time-- Deffkopta on feb 9th, nobz on jan 26th, etc. Again, a week of dev time is basically nothing in the overall scheme of the game's development cycle.
Melissia wrote: They didn't. It was only a couple months-- and even then, it was only a couple months between big high profile trailers, not between publicity releases as a whole. They've released unit spotlights on a not-quite-weekly schedule in the intervening time-- Deffkopta on feb 9th, nobz on jan 26th, etc. Again, a week of dev time is basically nothing in the overall scheme of the game's development cycle.
I guess you are right. To personally disclose, I don't actively go looking for information on games; the only game in recent memory that I have followed news for directly before it was released was Overwatch.
The last time I saw DOW3 in any games media that passes by was early/mid December. Not even the unit spotlights popped up anywhere other than their official website. It's a little confusing for a game franchise that is very well known, even amongst non Warhammer 40k fans, hence why it has me concerned.
Well, I was concerned even before that, mainly because they're bringing back base building, a mechanic that really should have been left out like it was in DOW2.
War Kitten wrote: Well. I'm looking forward to this game now. Grapple hook Ork away!
One thing I'll like about the games, they've been more inventive with Ork Tech then GW has, Eternal Crusade gave them Electrified Choppas and the like to make up for their lack of power weapons and all they amount to is weapons basically hooked up to a large car battery.
I don't know what to make of DOWIII yet, I admit I have never played DOWII, but I thought DOW1 and expansions were awesome! I hope DOW3 isn't just a hero mash-up with a few supporting units and the odd ultra deathstar unit, I also hope it isn't just open map spaces with different ways of getting to the same objective. I would like it to have tight confined battlefields which really push you with big losses on a large scale. Hopefully it will live up to most of our expectations.
In this trailer, what really bugs me is that Orks mega arm. Yes it looks robotic but it is completely disproportionate to the body. In reality if the arm lifted up it would just pivot the Ork up and down in the air! Its too heavy to look sensible imo. The trailers also seem very Eldar orientated as if the story is 'Those Raven Guard bumble around on a planet they know nothing about, Eldar do sneaky stuff, Space Marines catch on and mess it up, Eldar fight back, suddenly Orks and both fight to stop the Waaagh etc etc'
Still no mention of traditional Chaos, guess if they make an appearance it will be in DLC. I think it would be great if they ever did a 'Sindri's Revenge' bouncing back out of the warp on the tide of the 13th Black Crusade heading for Terra. A sort of 'Blood Ravens- No not after all those years! Sindri- Well for me in the warp it was yesterday, I'm not Alpharius but I have brought his legion back for round 2!'
Well, I was concerned even before that, mainly because they're bringing back base building, a mechanic that really should have been left out like it was in DOW2.
Whats wrong with base building? Yes it can get repetitive but I enjoy games in particular where you can build a solid defence line and watch the AI pathetically fail to breach it (where missions apply) or when you have to breach AI defences.
Sentinel1 wrote: Whats wrong with base building? Yes it can get repetitive but I enjoy games in particular where you can build a solid defence line and watch the AI pathetically fail to breach it (where missions apply) or when you have to breach AI defences.
Repetitive, lore breaking and takes your attention away from the actual meat of a strategy game - fighting your opponent's units.
It's fine in my classic C&C games where I can expect it, but DOW was taking a step in the right direction by removing it in the second instalment.
Base building might work well in a planetary campaign based game featuring the imperial guard or some such. It never fit quite right with space marines
Meanwhile, Orks build ramshackle buildings everywhere, and Eldar either hide their webway gates or fortify around them during times of war depending on the craftworld in question.
While the trailer certainly presents DoW3 in a better light (grappling hook orks ftw), I'm still not a fan of the Eldar energy shields or the...'meh' feeling I get when I see Space Marines in combat.
I imagine this is in SUPER Alpha at this point so that could mean months before release (lets hope), so we might see some pretty big changes before the big day.
Melissia wrote:Meanwhile, Orks build ramshackle buildings everywhere, and Eldar either hide their webway gates or fortify around them during times of war depending on the craftworld in question.
Out of interest, where can I find information saying that Orks have set up FOBS in the past that are capable of supporting and rallying their infantry and vehicles?
Large scale Tellyportas delivered by Roks are all that I'm aware of in regular lore.
War Kitten wrote:I may have missed it, but have we gotten a potential release date for this yet?
General Annoyance wrote: Out of interest, where can I find information saying that Orks have set up FOBS in the past that are capable of supporting and rallying their infantry and vehicles?
Orks don't have anything standardized enough to call a "forward operating base" to begin with. However, their Meks go anywhere the green tide goes, and they work on the vehicles and build more as the horde grows, even as the horde continues moving. That necessitates the ability to set up quick bases for the purpose, usually set up by grots and mekboyz.
The closest I can think of off the top of my head is Deff Skwadron, which showed an Ork frontline camp where a fighta-bomma squadron and some bike squads were based (the titular Deff Skwadron).
I can see a Big Mek or a bunch of Meks setting up their workshop close to the frontlines to keep as close to the fighting as possible. Thank you for clarifying.
It makes base building (for the Orks at least) potentially plausible, although I still think the mechanic is very aged and worn out.
The game mechanic can be done right. See: Supreme Commander as an example of this. But the thing is, it needs to be a key part of the gameplay, and not just thrown in because tradition demands it (like in DoW1).
From the very little information that has been divulged on DOW3's base building, it doesn't look like they've done anything to breathe new life into it. I still think they should have gone down the Ground Control route, which would be far more lore friendly as well as a breath of fresh air mechanically.
Hell, even making DOW like Wargame would be better; a Wargame mechanic styled 40kRTS would make a proper apocalypse scale 40k game possible.
Taldeer threatens rebellion in the video. While we don't know the circumstances, that's an unusual move for an Eldar.
Correction. While the prophecy at the beginning of the video is supposed to be from Taldeer, the official website claims that Macha is the one leading the Eldar in the video.
Makes sense given that the last time we saw Taldeer was as a soulstone in the Eldar DoW2: Retribution campaign. I suppose it's possible that she still makes an appearance of sorts in DoW3's story, assuming that the Eldar were able to recover her soulstone during the Retribution campaign.
Makes sense given that the last time we saw Taldeer was as a soulstone in the Eldar DoW2: Retribution campaign. I suppose it's possible that she still makes an appearance of sorts in DoW3's story, assuming that the Eldar were able to recover her soulstone during the Retribution campaign.
She's in the Wraithknight with Rohnan.
But yes it seems several things were picked from Retributions canon, Taldeers soulstone was recovered, Gabriel survived.. I wonder if Da Kaptain got his fancy cap.
Limited Edition: 5 bucks over retail (65 USD)
-- Premium Disc Book
-- Official game soundtrack with 18 epic tracks composed by Paul-Leonard Morgan
-- Lenticular Art Card which rotates between the 3 race masks (5.7” x 6.7”)
Collector's Edition: 70 bucks(!!!) over retail (130 USD)
-- All of the previous, plus:
-- Gabriel Angelos’s iconic “Godsplitter Daemon Hammer” replica (14.2” x 4.2”)
-- 3 cloth faction banners mounted on wooden poles with custom artwork and slogans (25” x 15.2”)
-- “Master of War” bonus digital content pack with exclusive skins; Solaria’s “Dark Queen”, Taldeer’s “Ghost Seer” and the Morkanauts “Big Kustom” sets.
I'd definitely argue for Angelos to be an iconic character, possibly in the 40k universe at large too.
That's still not real video game iconic - iconic is characters like Mario, Master Chief, the Doom Marine etc. Gabriel doesn't even come close to that, let alone his damn hammer (which even I probably wouldn't be able to tell apart from another ornate Thunder Hammer)
Was hoping for something more interesting for the special editions, oh well, can't win 'em all. I'll pre-order the regular edition at the end of the month, do want to tool around with them Knights.
Not going to preorder, for all the reasons that have accumulated over the years on why you shouldn't preorder videogames.
The only time I might be swayed to buy a game before it is released is if I can get access to a Beta/early version of the game, much like how Wildlands gave out Beta keys to people about a month before the release.
Mind you, Ubisoft cocked that up too, since I couldn't even log into Uplay to activate my Beta key. Thanks guys
The characters / units all seem too athletic to me.
I understand the fluff behind the Wraithknight and why it might be doing Townsend-style power slides, but leaping Terminators and Warbosses with shooty anchor arms is too far divorced from one of the stylistic mainstays of the world of 40k: hyperbolic mass.
Bolters are huge. Dakkaguns are huge. Armor is tank-like. Assault squads strap jets to their backs that barely carry them over half the field. Tanks are gigantic. The things that do fly are mostly aero-adynamic. Heavy weapons are things that should be mounted onto a trailer, not something that walks on two legs.
The models presented in the game so far should be far too heavy to be leaping, bouncing and scampering about like a hyperactive March Hare. Such dynamics would not ruin a game for me but would certainly take some adjustment to accept. I could see myself never learning the special abilities of some units because they offend my knowledge of canon.
General Annoyance wrote: Not going to preorder, for all the reasons that have accumulated over the years on why you shouldn't preorder videogames.
I'm not big on pre-ordering, but if there's a discount involved, I'll gladly take it. It's 25% off for Dawn of War III and I know for certain that I want to play the game, if not for the Knights, then for completion sake. I also pre-ordered Wildlands after partaking in the open beta, though again, at a discount: about 33% off for on gold edition.
I don't like some things - most notably gabe's ninja flip and gorgutz spinning his klaw-on-a-chain in a circle like a cartoon character.
But on the whole, I think the unit models and animations are quite good. I especially like the ork walkers and their animations.
Overall, I think it looks like a good blend of DOW1 & 2 - the larger armies of the former but the hero units of the latter.
I don't pre-order games, and this is no exception, but I'm going to keep a ear to the ground about reviews in the coming month. And unless this gets just abysmal reviews, I'll be getting this probably release day.
Does anyone know if they're still doing the 3-way campaign mode? I remember hearing that the campaign was going to take turns playing as each race, rather than having 3 campaigns for each, or a map like, say, dark crusade.
If so, I didn't think that sounded like a good or workable idea, but I'm not sure if they abandoned it.
I am going to pre order all three only open the basic one tho of course.
I am so happy they brought back base building and units that can move. The c3pos where very upsetting before like in dow2 those poor burgers greatest weakness was a strong breeze get knocked over and they helpless. Unless they have the canes of the emperor to help them.
Soooo looking forward to this first game I bought since Warcraft 3 for the computer..... Well I guess warhammer fantasy off steam or what ever the name is.
Wait did soul storm come out before or after Warcraft 3?
OgreChubbs wrote: Wait did soul storm come out before or after Warcraft 3?
Soulstorm came out a bit after Warcraft 3 did.
As for DoW3, it looks...Okay, I guess. The dev's seemed less concerned with making a game that adhered to the various rules set by it's predecessors and more interested in creating their own version of the game. There are certainly some pretty silly things (Gorgutz's spinning fist attack, ugh) more at home in a different style of game, but I think that's only a minor issue.
I'll pick it up after I read some Steam reviews, or it goes on sale. Sadly, I'm not as hyped about this one as I was for the other two.
OgreChubbs wrote: Wait did soul storm come out before or after Warcraft 3?
Soulstorm came out a bit after Warcraft 3 did.
As for DoW3, it looks...Okay, I guess. The dev's seemed less concerned with making a game that adhered to the various rules set by it's predecessors and more interested in creating their own version of the game. There are certainly some pretty silly things (Gorgutz's spinning fist attack, ugh) more at home in a different style of game, but I think that's only a minor issue.
I'll pick it up after I read some Steam reviews, or it goes on sale. Sadly, I'm not as hyped about this one as I was for the other two.
Really not feeling gorguts?
I love the feel they give the ork in Dow games, I think it is the best part and GW should de-evolve them some like they use to be. They where tech heavy but badly advanced. Now GW make them a gakky space marine army of green guys who suck at everything and copy the space marines best they can.
Old ork where so much better why does their tech work because they think it can, their stuff is crappy as hell but it works lol. Like in Dow where you had the ability for the storm boys to launch, then one of their back packs freaked out and rammed him into the spot you clicked. The Dow franchise made orks for me big time. The warboss obsessed with hats, gorguts being slippy but Killy, the armoured nobs dyeing when they get a speed boost ext. they where their own race of tech not a space marine copy that forgot how to shoot and melee.
Does anyone know if they're still doing the 3-way campaign mode? I remember hearing that the campaign was going to take turns playing as each race, rather than having 3 campaigns for each, or a map like, say, dark crusade.
If so, I didn't think that sounded like a good or workable idea, but I'm not sure if they abandoned it.
No idea but it's not bad a way of doing it. Total Annihilation Kingdoms had it that way. Starcraft and Warcraft III had the storyline split between each faction's campaign (so each one continued where another left off). It's a great way of telling the story from multiple perspectives and it means people know which version is canon.
You realize that TA:K was a bomb that utterly destroyed Cavedog, and was panned by critics and fans alike, right? Prooobably not a good example to use. Not that I'm disagreeing with you that this is a method that can be used for storytelling, but...
Melissia wrote: You realize that TA:K was a bomb that utterly destroyed Cavedog, and was panned by critics and fans alike, right? Prooobably not a good example to use. Not that I'm disagreeing with you that this is a method that can be used for storytelling, but...
It wasn't a bad game. It just didn't live up to Total Annihilation. I didn't read that many negative reviews. Seemed to regarded as average to quite good.
Melissia wrote: You realize that TA:K was a bomb that utterly destroyed Cavedog, and was panned by critics and fans alike, right? Prooobably not a good example to use. Not that I'm disagreeing with you that this is a method that can be used for storytelling, but...
It wasn't a bad game. It just didn't live up to Total Annihilation. I didn't read that many negative reviews. Seemed to regarded as average to quite good.
Additionally the game had to compete with other giants of the time; Starcraft, Warcraft, Command and Conquer and a slew of others. Just because it lost the war doesn't mean that it was a bad game, just outdone by its competition.
I'm more than a little surprised by the negative reactions so far to the multiplayer, basically everyone's yelling 'it's a MOBA'.
And, in fairness ,the multiplayer mode is very MOBA-looking. But it's still a RTS, and you fight over objective points, gain requisition, build your base and army, try to take the enemy's listening posts, just like old DOW1. Just with a new map, which frankly, I think has promise. You can't be zerg rushed, for example, and you have to actually build an army and push the enemy's back.
I did learn that the morale system is gone, which is quite a disappointment.
But on the whole, I think there's a lot of fun to be had, if the core gameplay is good. And I'm not so worried about the one multiplayer mode, more can be added or modded without much trouble, I suspect.
Kap'n Krump wrote: And, in fairness ,the multiplayer mode is very MOBA-looking. But it's still a RTS, and you fight over objective points, gain requisition, build your base and army, try to take the enemy's listening posts, just like old DOW1. Just with a new map, which frankly, I think has promise. You can't be zerg rushed, for example, and you have to actually build an army and push the enemy's back.
I don't think it's a MOBA, but you have essentially described the biggest problem I have with this; it practically is DOW1 with a fancier paintjob, to the point where even most of the buildings have the same name and function as those in DOW1.
DOW1 is one of the worst aged RTS "classics" imo too, with severe balancing issues and flawed mechanics. Pretty much every RTS has those problems too, but not in the abundance that DOW1 had them in. It's no Command and Conquer, that's for sure.
I loved DOW2 because it stripped out most of the gak that was in DOW1 in favour of ability focused play and a more balanced lineup of units (sometimes less is better); a lot of people have the opinion that DOW2 is more of an Action RPG than a RTS, and to an extent they are right. However, I'd much prefer the more focused gameplay I got in DOW2 than what I got in DOW1, and what I expect to get in DOW3 thanks to the glaring similarities to the first game.
Yeah, that's my fear. That they're really just taking far too much from DoW1. But DoW1 was, honestly, nothing really all that special compared to other games of the time. It was carried by the setting itself, more than anything.
This is looking amazing so hyped. They almost killed it with that pos dawn of war 2 one of the worse games I think I ever played, my god it was horrible.
Now that they brought back planning, strats and macro.micro and not just the single hero click bait combat crap it will be great again.
Like seriously wtf was with the retreat button and planet size wars of 5 people? god I hated dow2 so much lol.
Well incoming dlc fest that is going to cripple it like CoH 2. High end PC gaming has all but forsaken us for the last few years. We need a savior PC seller game soon like WItcher 3. PS4 has already gotten a huge lineup of exclusive killer games. Meanwhile we get this game... great. My gaming PC is starting to gather dust from lack of use.
OgreChubbs wrote:Like seriously wtf was with the retreat button and planet size wars of 5 people? god I hated dow2 so much lol.
Quality over quantity is what DOW2 focused on, unlike DOW1, and probably this next instalment.
Gamgee wrote:Well incoming dlc fest that is going to cripple it like CoH 2. High end PC gaming has all but forsaken us for the last few years. We need a savior PC seller game soon like WItcher 3. PS4 has already gotten a huge lineup of exclusive killer games. Meanwhile we get this game... great. My gaming PC is starting to gather dust from lack of use.
Just because consoles have had some good exclusives doesn't mean the PC is out of the running. Hell, the PS4 and Xbox One still don't even come close to the competitiveness of a good PC, and all the benefits that offers. The lead is getting even bigger now with the consoles throwing away most of the advantages of having a console over a PC to become gakkier versions of a computer.
The PS4 may have some great games worth taking some time to play if you can, but I'd still take my PC over that any day of the week.
OgreChubbs wrote:Like seriously wtf was with the retreat button and planet size wars of 5 people? god I hated dow2 so much lol.
Quality over quantity is what DOW2 focused on, unlike DOW1, and probably this next instalment.
Gamgee wrote:Well incoming dlc fest that is going to cripple it like CoH 2. High end PC gaming has all but forsaken us for the last few years. We need a savior PC seller game soon like WItcher 3. PS4 has already gotten a huge lineup of exclusive killer games. Meanwhile we get this game... great. My gaming PC is starting to gather dust from lack of use.
Just because consoles have had some good exclusives doesn't mean the PC is out of the running. Hell, the PS4 and Xbox One still don't even come close to the competitiveness of a good PC, and all the benefits that offers. The lead is getting even bigger now with the consoles throwing away most of the advantages of having a console over a PC to become gakkier versions of a computer.
The PS4 may have some great games worth taking some time to play if you can, but I'd still take my PC over that any day of the week.
What quality? they copy pasted command and conquor with poorly rendered skins of gamesworkshop.
The units would de-group and run around randomly. 1 unit would get stuck in a corner and the whole unit would become unresponsive.
The cover system was a joke at best.
The supression system made no sense. "We are being shot at quick everyone "WALK REALLY SLOW" Should of had a moral break and flee or something.
The heroes at level 6+ where game ending.
There was only 1 usefull hero per army in solo.
There was no race distinction. They all played the same had the same rough caps income generating ect.
1 main core base is just dumb.
ect ect.
OgreChubbs wrote: What quality? they copy pasted command and conquor with poorly rendered skins of gamesworkshop.
You could at least try to spell it right. And no, DOW2 is nothing like any C&C game; Tiberium Wars 3 is the only one with even a hint of squad mechanics, and all C&C games have base building. If anything, DOW1 and 3 tried to take base building straight from C&C to make it work, and failed miserably.
The units would de-group and run around randomly. 1 unit would get stuck in a corner and the whole unit would become unresponsive.
Never heard of this
The cover system was a joke at best.
Explain
The supression system made no sense. "We are being shot at quick everyone "WALK REALLY SLOW" Should of had a moral break and flee or something.
They're ducking their heads and sticking to the ground. Why would anyone in their right mind run away from gunfire out in the open?
The heroes at level 6+ where game ending.
Much like how a Steamroller in any other RTS is game ending, plus those heroes can only ever compliment your forces - they can never run down an enemy fort on their own, as much as I've tried to do that.
There was only 1 usefull hero per army in solo.
If you only play an RTS one way, that would be what you would think.
Also, Eldar Warlock, Eldar Warp Spider Exarch
There was no race distinction. They all played the same had the same rough caps income generating ect.
That's not really an argument with no context. Besides, you don't need some big central faction mechanic to make a faction play differently; IG only have 1 melee unit other than their heroes for a start; Orks have little effective ranged firepower; Eldar rely heavily on triggering abilities and keeping momentum.
1 main core base is just dumb.
Again, not an argument without anything behind it. I believe quite a few people here would agree that base building is mostly a tired game mechanic with little merit; just because it's classic doesn't mean it's compulsory. DOW2 was a breath of fresh air for chucking that out of the window and allowing you focus on fighting battles rather than wasting time plopping down lore breaking structures from thin air and tabbing up units and base upgrades.
I think you misunderstand a invalid argument and one you do not agree with.
Invalid argument is bees cant fly "because they can"
A argument you disagree with is dow 2 sucks because, Then you disagree with the reasons listed.
Also if you play tyranid and used hornygaunts and they hopped into a tree the whole unit would not retreat or do anything but fall back to that same postion stand there til shot to death.
Ignoring OgreChubbs' off-topic rambling for a bit, it looks like the game allows for a very large number of "line" units but only a limited number of "elites". Wonder how that'll play out in actual practice.
OgreChubbs wrote: I think you misunderstand a invalid argument and one you do not agree with.
Nope - an argument with validity is one that actually provides some kind of explanation other than a valueless statement.
Making a point to counter mine is fine and dandy, except there's no point to go on, or at least no context for it.
Also if you play tyranid and used hornygaunts and they hopped into a tree the whole unit would not retreat or do anything but fall back to that same postion stand there til shot to death.
Into a tree? That sounds like an incredibly specific incident.
Melissia wrote: Ignoring OgreChubbs' off-topic rambling for a bit, it looks like the game allows for a very large number of "line" units but only a limited number of "elites". Wonder how that'll play out in actual practice.
It could be a positive - sometimes a few basic units complimented by specialised elite choices is a lot better than a "regular" RTS' roster that has a bit of everything thrown in there, but nothing that could motivate the player to change their tactics up. Sounds like these elite choices will let players augment how they play - sounds like a nice idea to me.
Watching AJ stream the game. Wow it looks like crap like I suspected. He and the others with him didn't seem to be having too much fun.
I wish they used the card based system from Wargame Red Dragon. Instant balance since you can only take so much of any one thing and once your out you can't call in anymore for the duration of the battle.
In that game you build a "deck" of cards to make an army. If your familiar with the tabletop 40k you will be very familiar with the system. It's basically a more complex (because computers) combined arms chart.
So you have a set amount of slots, but at the same time every unit still has its cost to call it in the battlefield. At the same time if you run out of stuff your screwed. Each card in Wargame also gives you a fixed amount of call ins so you can take the same thing multiple times, but there are limits to how much a card can be taken depending on what it is and what type of deck.
In Wargame they have different types of "CAD's" so you can specialize your deck into any number of types form marines to support decks. This could allow for fluffy army compositions and bonuses in a video game using this system.
The Eldar I've watched seem better than orks at everything even melee. I seen an ork titan basically being soloed by an Eldar hero which is pathetic. And the disappointing PC releases roll on.
The Eldar I've watched seem better than orks at everything even melee. I seen an ork titan basically being soloed by an Eldar hero which is pathetic. And the disappointing PC releases roll on.
That's not a titan thats the Gorkanaut (or Morkanaut)
If the Eldar hero can solo the Gorkanaut which is the ork superunit for the game imagine how much their super unit wrecked. It wasn't uncommon for a decently microed Wraithknight to kill two titans, a good chunk of an army, and still have enough health to escape and heal up for a return in a few mins. Company of Heroes 2 launch balancing it seems. Gawd that game was so disappointing. Last digital collectors edition I ever preordered.
Right but this is Relic. They are worse at balancing a game than GW is. Why do you think I stopped playing games for just over two years and stopped buying games in the dark times of gaming 2015 and 2016 were horrible years for games with like one or two exceptions for the two years. Even 2014 and 13 weren't all that great.
PC gaming and gaming in general was in a great decline. PC gaming still going down hill but at least the consoles are back to delivering solid games again. I haven't had time to paint basically in forever which is a good thing. I picked up 40k as a side hobby because of how crap the industry got.
Now however new GW seems to understand balance a lot better from what I've seen of AoS. Better than micro-transactionfest Relic does. However I can't entirely blame Relic, Sega is a big part of the greed influencing them.
It took them like 2 years to get CoH 2 into a slightly more balanced and working state than at launch. Then they mess it up by adding random drops, micro-transactions, and pay to win elements.
No faith in them. They also messed up DoW2 pretty bad. Even though it looked good the singleplayer and multiplayer was pretty bland. It was such a wasted opportunity bringing in CoH style tactics which would bring it more in line with a 40k low points game. However the gameplay was ultimately marred heavily in singleplayer by dumb boss fights, dumb AI, and a weird loot rpg system. It's skirmish mode with the idiot AI was little more than ring around the rosie. Against players they often report the same thing for a long time before combat starts. It had one great thing though. Last Stand mode. Great inspiration.
So as you can see Relics track record has been getting shoddier and shoddier over the years. DoW2 was fun enough but definitely two steps backwards for everyone one good thing it did right. This basically sums up everything they've done since CoH topped getting expansions.
When DoW3 was first announced I was really excited. They claimed they were taking the best worlds of both DoW 1 and 2 and putting them into a game. The DoW community (myself included) imagined large scale battles of DoW 1 and the tactical features of DoW2 which would have fixed many complaints. We also imagined the better story of DoW2 but a unique one for each race. Instead they merged all the races into one cheap ass campaign. So instead we got the worst aspects of all the games back. We get base building, a lack of tactical options, moba influence, super high health bars on everything hero fighter mode thing with destroying the nexus gameplay. Oh and even LESS starting content than either game and they going to put more and more dlc in.
Yaaay. Faith in Relic at this point is 0/10.
If it wasn't for the PS4 being super hot this year with games I would probably still just be painting stuff and talking about 40k and AoS. Thankfully someone in the video game industry understands how to make good games still.
Edit
To top it all of they gave DoW3 the dumbest most kiddie looking graphics ever and despite using a style that should be easy to read fethed it up with all the glowing effects making it too hard to see.
I'm so done with PC gaming until I see improvement or a really must have game. It's been so long my PC is gathering dust. Oh I still play Total War Warhammer that was one of the few good games released for PC.
The Eldar I've watched seem better than orks at everything even melee. I seen an ork titan basically being soloed by an Eldar hero which is pathetic. And the disappointing PC releases roll on.
That's not a titan thats the Gorkanaut (or Morkanaut)
Eldar overpowered? Orks underpowered? Where is my fainting couch!!!
Oh I forgot to mention. I was in the Company of Heroes 2 beta before launch. Like a few weeks since I preordered the big mega edition. Despite having a beta a good chunk of problems remained on launch and new ones popped up balance was atrocious. It was terrible for a long long loooong time too.
I forgot to add that above. No rts developer in recent history can feth up as much as Relic.
Gamgee wrote: PC gaming and gaming in general was in a great decline. PC gaming still going down hill but at least the consoles are back to delivering solid games again. I haven't had time to paint basically in forever which is a good thing. I picked up 40k as a side hobby because of how crap the industry got.
Wut.
Almost everything you can find on a console, the PC will have a better port for it, or will offer something of equal or greater value. With a few exceptions here and there (primarily The Last of Us) there are very few reasons these days to have a console over a PC, and none of those reasons hold much weight against the advantages of a computer.
I always hated the PC Master Race meme, but honestly that's getting more and more accurate the more consoles try to be crappier versions of PCs.
No faith in them. They also messed up DoW2 pretty bad. Even though it looked good the singleplayer and multiplayer was pretty bland. It was such a wasted opportunity bringing in CoH style tactics which would bring it more in line with a 40k low points game. However the gameplay was ultimately marred heavily in singleplayer by dumb boss fights, dumb AI, and a weird loot rpg system. It's skirmish mode with the idiot AI was little more than ring around the rosie. Against players they often report the same thing for a long time before combat starts. It had one great thing though. Last Stand mode. Great inspiration.
Multiplayer was probably the best part of that game. Last Stand and the Campaign, while fun, were pretty throwaway; Multiplayer achieved that perfect balance of moving battlelines and tactical table turning which made it so enjoyable. Well, at least when you play control point maps - Annihilation was a pretty bad mode for me, since it's unlikely that a team will lose once they have built momentum.
So as you can see Relics track record has been getting shoddier and shoddier over the years. DoW2 was fun enough but definitely two steps backwards for everyone one good thing it did right. This basically sums up everything they've done since CoH topped getting expansions.
I don't see how it was two steps back - it was just different.
Perhaps this is the problem with RTS fans; anything other than a classic or classic inspired setup is total heresy apparently.
When DoW3 was first announced I was really excited. They claimed they were taking the best worlds of both DoW 1 and 2 and putting them into a game. The DoW community (myself included) imagined large scale battles of DoW 1 and the tactical features of DoW2 which would have fixed many complaints. We also imagined the better story of DoW2 but a unique one for each race. Instead they merged all the races into one cheap ass campaign. So instead we got the worst aspects of all the games back. We get base building, a lack of tactical options, moba influence, super high health bars on everything hero fighter mode thing with destroying the nexus gameplay. Oh and even LESS starting content than either game and they going to put more and more dlc in.
Sounds like you set your expectations way past what we were given honestly...
To top it all of they gave DoW3 the dumbest most kiddie looking graphics ever and despite using a style that should be easy to read fethed it up with all the glowing effects making it too hard to see.
Flat shading's not a bad thing; RTS games have never been well known for graphical fidelity, so it makes a lot of sense to go with an art style that is more forgiving in that department, but still looks pretty great.
The animations are what bug me - they're a little too Starcraft/Blizzardy for my liking.
I'm so done with PC gaming until I see improvement or a really must have game. It's been so long my PC is gathering dust. Oh I still play Total War Warhammer that was one of the few good games released for PC.
XCOM 2, Vermintide, Mirage, Overwatch, Guns of Icarus to name a few off the top of my head. Perhaps none of those are "must haves" but the idea of a must have is totally subjective anyway, so I don't really buy that line of argument.
I'd call Xcom and Xcom2 as "must have" games myself.
Honestly though the PC gaming industry is enormous now, putting anything console to shame in terms of sheer size and variety it offers. You can quibble about quality if you want, but there's more new releases or updates of old releases every month on the PC than consoles have in a year.
But I have to ask what this has to do with the topic?
Melissia wrote: Honestly though the PC gaming industry is enormous now, putting anything console to shame in terms of sheer size and variety it offers. You can quibble about quality if you want, but there's more new releases or updates of old releases every month on the PC than consoles have in a year.
This
But I have to ask what this has to do with the topic?
War Kitten wrote: I'm honestly still looking forward to this. Got to watch the Yogscast play a little bit of it and I liked what I saw, so I'm excited personally
I got to see that as well, it actually looked quite well good! Sure it's not going to match the previous games but it looks like a pretty decent game in its own right.
OgreChubbs wrote: I honestly didnt think you would of put your name in for the beta you never said one thing nice about the game yet.
You have a very narrow viewpoint on game critique. Just because I think the game will be garbage doesn't mean I shouldn't play it and put my money where my mouth is.
Besides, I've complimented the art style of the game. Nice to see someone's paying attention...
Not much these days; to me, Space Marine was their last great game they made.
Ugghh that game was sadly the last thing that had any sliver of decentness in it, but yes. Relic took a solid nosedive after that game indeed. Hopefully DoW3 puts the nails in their coffin
Not much these days; to me, Space Marine was their last great game they made.
Ugghh that game was sadly the last thing that had any sliver of decentness in it, but yes. Relic took a solid nosedive after that game indeed. Hopefully DoW3 puts the nails in their coffin
Well, which games beside CoH2 did they release since Space Marine?
I didn't play CoH2, but one failed project is acceptable as DoW 1+2 and CoH1 were fantastic.
Kopy wrote:Well, which games beside CoH2 did they release since Space Marine?
I didn't play CoH2, but one failed project is acceptable as DoW 1+2 and CoH1 were fantastic.
Sometimes one failure is enough for people to lose faith. Considering that Relic also tried to sell a character for a spin off game mode that's nearly 6 years old for nearly $10, I'd also doubt their practices.
Rayvon wrote:I got a key this morning, cannot wait until tomorow !!
Knowing my luck it will be a massive disappointment.
Still no key here; at least I won't be able to be disappointed.
And some people are just bitter to the point of no return.
No key here, I've adopted a wait and see stance myself, having decided not to pre-order. Worst case scenario, I'll get my Knight fix when the game goes on sale around Summer or Christmas this year.
BrookM wrote: And some people are just bitter to the point of no return.
I'm not trying to be bitter for the sake of being bitter if you were referring to me; I still try to look at this as objectively as possible each time I think about it and still have a problem with it.
If Relic could just give me a damn key we could put this to rest, one way or the other.
BrookM wrote: And some people are just bitter to the point of no return.
No key here, I've adopted a wait and see stance myself, having decided not to pre-order. Worst case scenario, I'll get my Knight fix when the game goes on sale around Summer or Christmas this year.
Its far better to aquier the game via alternative sources than waiting for a sale.
The art style, layout and somewhat odd choices as far as gameplay goes alongside Relics much tarnised record that has poisioned my mind when it comes to anything they put out
With no more Command and Conquer series planned, Relic is pretty much the only remaining top tier big-budget RTS game development company out there aside from Eugen. DoW2 and CoH2 were highly successful games, and now that the dust of THQ's death has settled they're making another one. Most RTSdevs are small time companies that have yet to establish themselves.
FFS at least they're not Blizzard, producing a sequel to a 20 year old mediocre game that wouldn't have been up to snuff for RTS genre quality standards 10 years ago, never mind now.
I'm being a bit reserved myself and not buying in to all the hype, and I don't blame you for not buying in to any of it-- but that's no reason to try to do some revisionist history.
I honestly didnt think you would of put your name in for the beta you never said one thing nice about the game yet.
Kinda gotta agree with you there man. GA is reminding me of how much hate AngryJoe gave the Total War: Warhammer game and the dude still got to test the game out. I wonder just how much damage Joe did to that game and it still succeeded no thanks to him. Can't say how much his shenanigans ****ed me off as an old WHF fan. I mean yeah the DLC prices were crazy but it's the last time i get to re-live WHF and i paid infinitely more when i was into the tabletop so it's a non-issue. Seriously i've had a TT buddy complain about it even though he impulse buys. Sometimes he's a strange guy.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Kinda gotta agree with you there man. GA is reminding me of how much hate AngryJoe gave the Total War: Warhammer game and the dude still got to test the game out. I wonder just how much damage Joe did to that game and it still succeeded no thanks to him. Can't say how much his shenanigans ****ed me off as an old WHF fan. I mean yeah the DLC prices were crazy but it's the last time i get to re-live WHF and i paid infinitely more when i was into the tabletop so it's a non-issue. Seriously i've had a TT buddy complain about it even though he impulse buys. Sometimes he's a strange guy.
IOW: don't have an opinion that's different to mine on a subject I know you like.
Why is someone bound to like a game from a franchise they like? Surely they'd be even more critical of a game from a franchise that they love; hell, even in AJ's own words "know that you critique a game because you love a game"
Just because it's the only way you can relive the WH Fantasy universe off the tabletop doesn't excuse it from poor business practice either.
Also just because I think the game will be crap doesn't mean that A. I will play it this weekend and still hate it afterwards, and B. that everyone else can't enjoy it. My opinion is not gospel, nor will I ever claim it to be, just like anyone who wants to be a critic should do. If anything I lose out if I hate DOW3, since I won't be able to enjoy it with people who will end up enjoying it.
Now let's stop with this ridiculous tangent of discussion; anyone can PM me if they think I'm being unreasonable or want to ask why I feel this way, but stop trying to make me look bad here just because I'm not willing to jump onto a hype wagon to sing praise for the game before I've even played it.
G.A
@Melissia - I did try that a few days ago, but it said I was already signed up. Luckily the problem has been resolved this morning, as the key turned up in my spam folder after I made breakfast. Hopefully it will be ready to play after work today, although chances are I will be playing the game tomorrow and on Sunday.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Kinda gotta agree with you there man. GA is reminding me of how much hate AngryJoe gave the Total War: Warhammer game and the dude still got to test the game out. I wonder just how much damage Joe did to that game and it still succeeded no thanks to him. Can't say how much his shenanigans ****ed me off as an old WHF fan. I mean yeah the DLC prices were crazy but it's the last time i get to re-live WHF and i paid infinitely more when i was into the tabletop so it's a non-issue. Seriously i've had a TT buddy complain about it even though he impulse buys. Sometimes he's a strange guy.
IOW: don't have an opinion that's different to mine on a subject I know you like.
Why is someone bound to like a game from a franchise they like? Surely they'd be even more critical of a game from a franchise that they love; hell, even in AJ's own words "know that you critique a game because you love a game"
Just because it's the only way you can relive the WH Fantasy universe off the tabletop doesn't excuse it from poor business practice either.
Also just because I think the game will be crap doesn't mean that A. I will play it this weekend and still hate it afterwards, and B. that everyone else can't enjoy it. My opinion is not gospel, nor will I ever claim it to be, just like anyone who wants to be a critic should do. If anything I lose out if I hate DOW3, since I won't be able to enjoy it with people who will end up enjoying it.
Now let's stop with this ridiculous tangent of discussion; anyone can PM me if they think I'm being unreasonable or want to ask why I feel this way, but stop trying to make me look bad here just because I'm not willing to jump onto a hype wagon to sing praise for the game before I've even played it.
G.A
@Melissia - I did try that a few days ago, but it said I was already signed up. Luckily the problem has been resolved this morning, as the key turned up in my spam folder after I made breakfast. Hopefully it will be ready to play after work today, although chances are I will be playing the game tomorrow and on Sunday.
Not saying you can't have your opinions. The only thing i'm saying is reserve your opinions until you play the actual game. On the case of your opinions i just get annoyed hearing them sometimes and your user name seems to make a little more sense. Course i'm a general annoyance too so i can't talk there .
Only in telling you to reserve your opinion. In the case of WHF maybe but i was mad at AJ for being mad before getting the actual game and crossing my fingers it'd be good. In a sense i was probably mad in that case because i mean come on it's the last time i'd ever get to re-live my hobby. Yeah i didn't want it to suck but DLC costs are nothing to a WHFTT player. The only real issue is if they do it to get buys for a crappy game but they did compromise at the end with the chaos warriors dlc. Also i don't get the complaints i played skaven on the TT and we're only just now getting something for them (we all know the hidden faction in the 2nd game is them ).
I just suppose i can't care about video gamer issues when i got so screwed by GW and had their own players crap on me for WHF. The bad guy here isn't CA or Sega so much as GW. If you want to crap on them go right ahead. They've set me back at least a thousand dollars in one game and then said i can no longer play it and if i don't wish to then i'm no longer wanted in their stores. If you want bad business practices CA and Sega hold nothing to that.
Well, pardon me in thinking that the whole point of threads like these is to give pre play opinions...
In the case of WHF maybe but i was mad at AJ for being mad before getting the actual game and crossing my fingers it'd be good. In a sense i was probably mad in that case because i mean come on it's the last time i'd ever get to re-live my hobby.
Again, that's not a reason to pardon anything that he may have picked up on. Personally I haven't seen his review of it since I was only interested in Fantasy after playing Vermintide a month or so ago, but even if it was full of unreasonable judgement, so what? It's his opinion, which you're welcome to disagree with; even if he's being contrarion, why should that affect your own judgement if you have one already on the game?
Yeah i didn't want it to suck but DLC costs are nothing to a WHFTT player.
I don't know about you, but I know I'm not made of money, even with a decent paying job for my age. Thus, charging nearly $10 to let me play a Necron Overlord with no dialogue in a minigame nearly 6 years after the game's release is pretty insulting to both wallet and brain. Let's not get started on some other DLC that 40k/Fantasy games have offered in the past too (*cough*SpaceMarineElitePass*cough*)
The only real issue is if they do it to get buys for a crappy game but they did compromise at the end with the chaos warriors dlc. Also i don't get the complaints i played skaven on the TT and we're only just now getting something for them (we all know the hidden faction in the 2nd game is them ).
Ah yes, the Chaos Warriors DLC - the one that they were going to/did lock off to preorders, right?
I just suppose i can't care about video gamer issues when i got so screwed by GW and had their own players crap on me for WHF. The bad guy here isn't CA or Sega so much as GW. If you want to crap on them go right ahead. They've set me back at least a thousand dollars in one game and then said i can no longer play it and if i don't wish to then i'm no longer wanted in their stores. If you want bad business practices CA and Sega hold nothing to that.
There's nothing wrong with GW's IP though - you can't really argue that the IP is problematic to work with when there are plenty of examples in gaming history to prove otherwise, both for Fantasy and 40k. This is just a problem with GW selling its licence out to companies that either don't have the talent or the respect to work the universes into games that will go to a very critical audience
Irishpeacockz wrote: Very disappointed with this game, the open beta just reassured me of my hesitation towards this game.
It simply doesn't feel like dawn of war.
How so I find it feels very much like dawn of war. Constant battle monstrous mechs ripping and killing. The hero is well placed and not overly powered. The abilities are easily avoided and used. Orks attack in mass marines in few eldar are ment to be fast. Everything I expected of dow
The art style/graphics, the simplified (and downright pointless) base building, the multiplayer game mode ain't to my taste, the stealth and cover mechanics irk me.
A combination of the above put me off this game, shame really as I wanted to like this game but I dont.
GA where do i give my opinion about the game? I merely said reserve judgment. You can whine as much as you want when you have played it. That's all. My opinion isn't on the game it's on how you react to a trailer. As far as the game's considered i'm mixed. The art direction wasn't fully to my liking but until i test the beta or play the actual game i will reserve judgment.
flamingkillamajig wrote: GA where do i give my opinion about the game? I merely said reserve judgment. You can whine as much as you want when you have played it. That's all. My opinion isn't on the game it's on how you react to a trailer. As far as the game's considered i'm mixed. The art direction wasn't fully to my liking but until i test the beta or play the actual game i will reserve judgment.
The fact that you're here telling me to reserve judgement indicates that your opinion with DOW3 is either neutral or positive. You may not have said it directly, but by challenging my opinion you've essentially revealed your own, especially considering that you haven't told anyone on this thread who is looking forward to the game to reserve their opinions.
Plus, this thread wouldn't exist if we all just reserved our opinions, nor would any rumour thread exist for that matter.
I really am not a fan, just dosn't feel like a 40k game and in fact you could replace the units with any other skin and they would be just as good.
Graphics are a joke in this day and age this should not pass for a PC game, hell my phone could probably run it! They should have let creative assembly have a go at the title.
I mean at least give them a wash and some edge highlights!
flamingkillamajig wrote: GA where do i give my opinion about the game? I merely said reserve judgment. You can whine as much as you want when you have played it. That's all. My opinion isn't on the game it's on how you react to a trailer. As far as the game's considered i'm mixed. The art direction wasn't fully to my liking but until i test the beta or play the actual game i will reserve judgment.
The fact that you're here telling me to reserve judgement indicates that your opinion with DOW3 is either neutral or positive. You may not have said it directly, but by challenging my opinion you've essentially revealed your own, especially considering that you haven't told anyone on this thread who is looking forward to the game to reserve their opinions.
Plus, this thread wouldn't exist if we all just reserved our opinions, nor would any rumour thread exist for that matter.
Nobody else has made as big of a stink about it as you. That's the only reason why i specified you. It's just like with AJ. He endlessly made a stink about total war warhammer and caused a ton of people to downvote it constantly. I don't agree fully with the DLC but the amount of whine was a bit much. If you don't like something then don't play it. Making an endless stink about something before it's even released is ridiculous.
Irish and daston get to complain because they played the game and dislike it. When you play the game your opinion will have infinitely more weight. Course i am reserving my opinion till i play so i'm pretty neutral. I just hate endless complainers before something is out. I even told you the art style isn't entirely to my liking. It's a little too cartoony but that said it reminds me of the over the top goofy and campy gameplay of dow 1 so it's not all bad. I mean i feel like i'm the only one that remembers in dow 1 that some enemies would launch foot soldiers 50 feet in the air only for them to get back up on their feet like it was a minor inconvenience rather than a fall that'd kill any normal person (esp. a guardsman).
So what? Why does my opinion have to be singled out simply because it is mostly negative? If anything, all the unreasonable judgement has come from the mostly positive arguments, and all the I've had to take from them because they've rubbed themselves up into a hype frenzy. At least I have some weight behind my argument other than "this game will be great/terrible"
If you don't like something then don't play it
Daft rule. Does that mean people who don't like something can't voice their opinion?
Irish and daston get to complain because they played the game and dislike it.
I've played the game, so does my argument have some arbitrary value to it now?
I even told you the art style isn't entirely to my liking.
Also admitting that you have provided pre play opinion.
It's a little too cartoony but that said it reminds me of the over the top goofy and campy gameplay of dow 1 so it's not all bad.
I don't see people's problem with flat shading - it actually looks quite nice for an RTS. The problem lies with the terrible animation that doesn't even work right.
I'll admit i have a bit of a pre-play opinion but i'm reserving most judgment till i get to play. I did however get to see gameplay on youtube of people doing multiplayer a bit and it looked sorta cool to me. I suppose my biggest issue is how much hate you seemed to give towards the game even during it's first gameplay reveal and a lot of your reasons in that thread kinda fell flat to most people including me. I don't even mind if you dislike it but you almost seemed obsessed on how much you disliked where it was going and saying it'd suck. I'll even admit the art style has me unconvinced about it being good. I just don't spew hate everywhere about it.
Eh i dunno i think my favored art style for DoW is still dawn of war 1. It looks a bit ridiculous but it didn't get super realistic. This one is sort of the opposite and very cartoony. Dawn of War 1 was a mix and that was a good thing to me. Course maybe it's nostalgia goggles. I barely played any multiplayer for Dawn of War 2 and Dawn of War 1 i played endlessly.
I've only played a game or two online - I'm not ready to give my final judgement on it yet.
I'll admit i have a bit of a pre-play opinion but i'm reserving most judgment till i get to play.
So the whole basis of your challenge to me has nothing to stand on?
Well, at least we cleared that up.
I suppose my biggest issue is how much hate you seemed to give towards the game even during it's first gameplay reveal and a lot of your reasons in that thread kinda fell flat to most people including me. I don't even mind if you dislike it but you almost seemed obsessed on how much you disliked where it was going and saying it'd suck. I'll even admit the art style has me unconvinced about it being good. I just don't spew hate everywhere about it.
There's a huge difference between hate and critique. If you can't distinguish the two, that's your problem, not mine.
Good to also see that you didn't take away any of the positive stuff I suggested could be possible in DOW3. Just like the people before you, you've cherry picked all the more extreme parts of my arguments to make me look like someone who's being unreasonable.
I'll refer you again to my own posts on that thread. Read them and tell me if that smacks of someone who's just hating on the game.
Eh i dunno i think my favored art style for DoW is still dawn of war 1. It looks a bit ridiculous but it didn't get super realistic. This one is sort of the opposite and very cartoony. Dawn of War 1 was a mix and that was a good thing to me. Course maybe it's nostalgia goggles. I barely played any multiplayer for Dawn of War 2 and Dawn of War 1 i played endlessly.
Again I ask why flat shading is such a big problem, and why nobody is levelling any of the cartoonish effect at the poor animation work rather than the well executed art style.
I think that this game has receive a lot of hate from the most toxic crown of "hardcore fanboys" out there. As the days go on, I'm more realizing that we fans can be the worst thing to happens to anything out there.
I have see people saying that this game was an "INSULT" to the "hardcore fans" because Gabriel Angelos shouldn't jump 5 meters in a Terminatour armour, because thats an "Insult to the lore" and they did it to try to appeal to "mainstream public" and not the "loyal and hardcore fans"
That entitlement, like videogames or in general, things should be done to our own vision of that thing is so annoying.
I'm totally onboard with rational critizism based in facts and arguments, but when the hate comes with a "I'm a big fan and things aren't how I like them because they are different now" is so... get a life!
This is the universe where BloodAngels brofist Necrons to kill Tyranids. If anyone takes the Lore so seriously as to be actually mad or angry about people ignoring it, has a serious problem. And I say this being a lore-freak of Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k.
Just like ME:Andromeda. "Fans" hated it from the first minute because stupid reasons. And then all of the "hardcore-fans" of how 90% didn't even played the game go ahead talking trash about how animations ruined the game when they where anecdotical and just a meme, when the worst part of the game was the weak narrative and in general weak companions characters, the best point of all of ME games.
Galas wrote: I think that this game has receive a lot of hate from the most toxic crown of "hardcore fanboys" out there. As the days go on, I'm more realizing that we fans can be the worst thing to happens to anything out there.
I have see people saying that this game was an "INSULT" to the "hardcore fans" because Gabriel Angelos shouldn't jump 5 meters in a Terminatour armour, because thats an "Insult to the lore" and they did it to try to appeal to "mainstream public" and not the "loyal and hardcore fans"
That entitlement, like videogames or in general, things should be done to our own vision of that thing is so annoying.
I'm totally onboard with rational critizism based in facts and arguments, but when the hate comes with a "I'm a big fan and things aren't how I like them because they are different now" is so... get a life!
This is the universe where BloodAngels brofist Necrons to kill Tyranids. If anyone takes the Lore so seriously as to be actually mad or angry about people ignoring it, has a serious problem. And I say this being a lore-freak of Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k.
Just like ME:Andromeda. "Fans" hated it from the first minute because stupid reasons. And then all of the "hardcore-fans" of how 90% didn't even played the game go ahead talking trash about how animations ruined the game when they where anecdotical and just a meme, when the worst part of the game was the weak narrative and in general weak companions characters, the best point of all of ME games.
Lore Nazi's not withstanding - the bulk of the arguments made about the quality of the gameplay are (from what I've seen) based entirely around it looking beyond silly. And before you come back with something about 40k being fiction already and the various 'silly' things already present, that isn't my point. It isn't just over the top violence or ridiculous powers...it's how they interact with the game as a whole. A flying terminator doing WWE wrestling attacks on a Guardian squad just looks stupid, in my opinion.
Make no mistake though, I'm entirely OK with over-the-top action and violence in a 40k game - if it's done right. This doesn't look like it's done right, again, just my opinion.
I'd considered trying the beta but my schedule wouldn't allow for any extra game time, sadly. From what I've heard though, it isn't all that pretty. I'll reserve my judgement for when I buy it on a sale later - no way am I buying any more 60 dollar games day one, the industry has proven so unreliable that even if I wasn't already worried about DOW3 as a whole, there'd still be a good chance it'd ship incomplete.
Galas wrote: I think that this game has receive a lot of hate from the most toxic crown of "hardcore fanboys" out there. As the days go on, I'm more realizing that we fans can be the worst thing to happens to anything out there.
Yup, gamers are terrible people most of the time. But that also extends to people who try to play on the positive side of things, and shut down people who have voiced good criticism.
I have see people saying that this game was an "INSULT" to the "hardcore fans" because Gabriel Angelos shouldn't jump 5 meters in a Terminatour armour, because thats an "Insult to the lore" and they did it to try to appeal to "mainstream public" and not the "loyal and hardcore fans"
I struggle to see how that point is invalid; the issue you have when you make a 40k/Fantasy game is that you have to take into consideration how rich and historic the lore for each universe has become, and the massive amount of fans who may play TT versions of the game, other videogames of the universe or who just know about the lore and love a lot of things about it. The question that devs should probably be asking when they make a game with a universe as learned as 40k/Fantasy is "are we doing something with our game that necessitates this universe to make it a good game?". The problem I've found with DOW3 is that it could be just as good a game without the Warhammer 40k universe; it doesn't compliment the universe, nor does the universe compliment the game. That's probably why people are angry.
Let's not forget that the licence has been dragged through the dirt in recent years with terrible mobile games and games that didn't live up to expectations by a long shot. That's likely to make people even more critical than usual.
That entitlement, like videogames or in general, things should be done to our own vision of that thing is so annoying.
Less their own vision, but how they know 40k to be. DOW3 doesn't scream like 40k like both DOW1 and 2 did, and that's where the problem lies. Entitlement is different to pointing out that kind of observation.
I'm totally onboard with rational critizism based in facts and arguments, but when the hate comes with a "I'm a big fan and things aren't how I like them because they are different now" is so... get a life!
And right there you show the other side of the spectrum of irrationality. That kind of logic could be used to shut down anyone who has raised concerns about how a historic franchise is being changed, when the changes are fairly nonsensical/unnecessary.
This is the universe where BloodAngels brofist Necrons to kill Tyranids. If anyone takes the Lore so seriously as to be actually mad or angry about people ignoring it, has a serious problem. And I say this being a lore-freak of Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k.
IOW: I don't take the universe seriously and I like it, so STFU.
Just like ME:Andromeda. "Fans" hated it from the first minute because stupid reasons. And then all of the "hardcore-fans" of how 90% didn't even played the game go ahead talking trash about how animations ruined the game when they where anecdotical and just a meme, when the worst part of the game was the weak narrative and in general weak companions characters, the best point of all of ME games.
Again, learned universes can't be toyed with, and that's what makes people angry when they are. People have played the last instalment for what it offered, as well as for the universe, and if you change that, then you risk losing them because of it.
Had the misfortune of playing several games of DoW3 today at a friends house, and bad designe options, sub par animations and the lack of any chance to withdrawing your forces if need be. Then there is the whole lore question whom I do not inded to loose any more hair over I also found the pace and challenge of the game somewhat missing left me feeling robbed of several hours of time.
I hope for the sake of those whom decide to pay for this game that some of these errors are corrected before launch but I would not bet on it
Daston wrote: Graphics are a joke in this day and age this should not pass for a PC game
I put graphics on max and I'm okay with it. I'd rather this than have to buy a new computer just to play.
After playing some, for me this will be a "wait for the steam sale" type of purchase. I just don't know enough about the campaign to want to toss 60 bucks at it at the moment, and the multi isn't good enough (especially being unable to play against AI to figure out how much fun that might be) to buy it on that alone. I still want to get it eventually, though, as even as it is it's still better than 90% of RTS games that have come out the past few years.
Were it 40 I'd get it in a heartbeat. Were it 50 I'd hesitate but probably get it anyway. But sixty it feels like is asking for a bit much given the game's state.
Galas wrote: II have see people saying that this game was an "INSULT" to the "hardcore fans" because Gabriel Angelos shouldn't jump 5 meters in a Terminatour armour, because thats an "Insult to the lore" and they did it to try to appeal to "mainstream public" and not the "loyal and hardcore fans"
That entitlement, like videogames or in general, things should be done to our own vision of that thing is so annoying.
Well, to quote Relic from their interview in White Dwarf (March 2017, pg.34):
'We wanted to make sure even the tiniest details of the maps and animations felt like they’d be at home in the Warhammer 40,000 universe’
So that was either a lie or they have no idea that Cataphractii armour doesn't allow you to jump metres into the air...
Galas wrote: II have see people saying that this game was an "INSULT" to the "hardcore fans" because Gabriel Angelos shouldn't jump 5 meters in a Terminatour armour, because thats an "Insult to the lore" and they did it to try to appeal to "mainstream public" and not the "loyal and hardcore fans"
That entitlement, like videogames or in general, things should be done to our own vision of that thing is so annoying.
Well, to quote Relic from their interview in White Dwarf (March 2017, pg.34):
'We wanted to make sure even the tiniest details of the maps and animations felt like they’d be at home in the Warhammer 40,000 universe’
So that was either a lie or they have no idea that Cataphractii armour doesn't allow you to jump metres into the air...
Either way; not a great impression.
Didn't CS:GOTO write the original DOW accompaniment books?
Galas wrote: II have see people saying that this game was an "INSULT" to the "hardcore fans" because Gabriel Angelos shouldn't jump 5 meters in a Terminatour armour, because thats an "Insult to the lore" and they did it to try to appeal to "mainstream public" and not the "loyal and hardcore fans"
That entitlement, like videogames or in general, things should be done to our own vision of that thing is so annoying.
Well, to quote Relic from their interview in White Dwarf (March 2017, pg.34):
'We wanted to make sure even the tiniest details of the maps and animations felt like they’d be at home in the Warhammer 40,000 universe’
So that was either a lie or they have no idea that Cataphractii armour doesn't allow you to jump metres into the air...
Either way; not a great impression.
Didn't CS:GOTO write the original DOW accompaniment books?
I just had a dreadfull feeling... I think we have uncoverd why the game is sub par
ZebioLizard2 wrote: I've played a bit.. I think it's a good Warhammer game in general (Aside from a few weird design decisions).
But I don't think it's a good Dawn of War game, does that sound odd?
Kinda. I'd say that it's a fairly decent RTS (although certainly not a good one), but not a Dawn of War game at all, and not a game that needed/deserved the 40k universe.
I'd always been wary of a deal such as that, since it typically means that the keys have been stolen. G2A and it's subsidiaries are known for doing this, and there are probably plenty of other key sites that do the same.
I've purchased from them before quite a few times now, fast and reliable. I've stumbled across them via Dakka Dakka no less back when the Mad Max game was released.
Ok i only played one multiplayer match so far in the open beta that lasts for like a day and i actually enjoyed it. At first during the tutorials it felt iffy but when i fixed the graphics it looked decent enough rather than minimum graphics ugliness. Regular tactical marines feel a bit weak somehow and a lot of the eldar units seem more durable than they should. We won the match though even though both sides were like infants stumbling over in our first steps.
As far as aggression goes i was by far the most aggressive though my teammate did a bit as well. Gonna give the game a chance. It seems decent enough but only one game isn't a decider. The wait for match was a little while though.
In the same boat, managed to play a game with my brother and his coworker yesterday, them versus me, ouch. The tutorials are decent (but could do with a better voice over) and very basic, but seeing the game in action has certainly helped quite a bit. That I wound up winning somehow was purely coincidental.
We didn't really play seriously at first, we just tooled around and I told them that as long as I could drop in Solaria I'd be pleased as punch. But then the coworker decided to muscle in on my points and it escalated from there, first with me using drop pods filled with Tacticals to assault him as he capped those points, but swiftly turning to drop pods with Dreadnoughts instead, which was way more satisfying to see happen! I did notice that a single squad of Tacticals entrenched in one of those defensive points, armed with plasma guns, can and will mince three squads of shootas just passing by. It was also fun to see a sea of orks try and stop three Dreads, only to be quite effortlessly torn to shreds by them. However, they kept my Dreads busy long enough for my brother to send in the special hero Deffdredd and several regular ones, which still turned into quite a melee before my units died.
Most satisfying though was being able to drop in Solaria and killing whatever she came across. Especially when backed by that Deathwatch Kill Team, who were armed with a missile launcher, she tore through the Solaria of the coworker and its Predator escorts without too much hassle.
All in all, while none of us were the sort of scrotum dippers who play games online, we did enjoy it and there were several moments of us cheering at cool moves or laughing out loud at the funny stuff.
My biggest quibble so far is that Solaria is so damned slow when on the move. Just because the Knight is a big stompy robot does not mean that its a slow machine! Also, repairing her took the best part of the game for me, meaning she had a lot of downtime.
However, this impression has been good enough for me to get the game. That it runs smoothly at a steady rate on high detail also helps. And joy of joys, the 27th is a National Holiday, so a day off!
Played about 5 games in total while the Beta played out. People probably aren't interested in my opinion by now, nor would they be surprised. Much like how Arch Warhammer said, DOW3 is incredibly similar to how Starcraft plays, and even features MOBA like play in both the game mode and the elite units. Personally I'm not a fan of either of those, and that's fine; the question I would have which I debated with my friend after we played DOW3 together is "why would you want to play DOW3 over Starcraft 2?". We couldn't think of a good answer other than the universe.
My biggest bug with the game is how little control you really have over the fighting. Other than triggering abilities, there's very little you can do to alter the course of a battle; nothing gains levels, so it doesn't matter much when they die and you have a float of resources (which you probably will have), and there's no cover other than the heavy cover to give you an advantage over other units. Basically blob your forces and keep spamming infantry and tanks and you can't go far wrong.
I won't be buying this one. DOW2 is really the last Dawn of War game, and I will enjoy playing that instead while it still has a community.
Interestingly, there's a new filter for Dawn of War III on the GW website. Looks like Jain Zar will be making an appearance, as well as the Deathwatch...
angelofvengeance wrote: Interestingly, there's a new filter for Dawn of War III on the GW website. Looks like Jain Zar will be making an appearance, as well as the Deathwatch...
So you mean they finally started advertising their video games characters as models or similar? That took them what only 30 years?! 30 years to understand maybe the gamers would want to buy the actual GW minis of what game they played and possibly as a way to get them into the tabletop hobby.
Well, they may be a bit reluctant after the whole Fire Warrior debacle.
I remember when they hyped that one up quite a bit, only for the game to turn out to be super gak. I can't even call it a guilty pleasure, that's how bad it is.
But this is how GW rolls. They may support the game, but in limited quantity. Freeblade got support in form of a decal sheet, which is something I suppose.
Maybe GW is waiting for the reviews to pour in before really getting into things?
BrookM wrote: Well, they may be a bit reluctant after the whole Fire Warrior debacle.
I remember when they hyped that one up quite a bit, only for the game to turn out to be super gak. I can't even call it a guilty pleasure, that's how bad it is.
But this is how GW rolls. They may support the game, but in limited quantity. Freeblade got support in form of a decal sheet, which is something I suppose.
Maybe GW is waiting for the reviews to pour in before really getting into things?
Just saying even if it took 6 months it'd be something. I mean Total War: Warhammer hyped GW more than GW hyped its total war game. GW just didn't do anything to really advertise their game. Well i mean i think that was CA and Sega doing the advertising.
BrookM wrote: Well, they may be a bit reluctant after the whole Fire Warrior debacle.
I remember when they hyped that one up quite a bit, only for the game to turn out to be super gak. I can't even call it a guilty pleasure, that's how bad it is.
But this is how GW rolls. They may support the game, but in limited quantity. Freeblade got support in form of a decal sheet, which is something I suppose.
Maybe GW is waiting for the reviews to pour in before really getting into things?
It wasn't that bad, it was just very, very average.
I played the PC version, so I may have been cursed with a poor port. It was certainly prone to crashing and having the player character getting stuck in awkward places.
About the only good thing from that game was the voice acting. Tom Baker, BRIAN BLESSED, Burt Kwouk, Peter Serafinowicz and Sean Pertwee.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Back on topic, got my key just now and entered it into Steam, so that's sorted then. I wonder if they'll let us pre-load the game a day in advance or not.
I'm not much of a multiplayer RTS player, but I actually enjoyed the open beta.
Stuff I liked:
I really enjoyed fighting over contestable resource points. I haven't played much StarCraft, honestly, but I think it's more interesting to fight over a resource point in the center of the map than basically have the same income for most of the game.
I liked the unit selections and how they worked, generally.
I really like the elites mechanic. It's pretty exciting to summon in an elite to turn the tide of a close fight.
Though, I will admit it is far more fun to be on the delivering, rather than receiving, end of this tactic.
Stuff I didn't like:
Base building exists, but is honestly somewhat limited. Unlike SC or DOW1, there's not really a tech tree. At least for orks, there's only about 6 constructible buildings, and they only seem limited by how many waaaagh towers you have.
So, it's not very complex.
Zoomed in graphics of individual units don't seem great for basic infantry, though big stuff looks good. I honestly don't know how that compares to, say, SC. I'm not sure how SC marines stack up to DOW3 marines graphically, but it's not a deal breaker to me.
While I like struggling over contestable resource points, it seems that whoever manages to grab them first gains pretty much unstoppable momentum.
Lastly, what concerns me most is that I've heard the campaign is a glorified tutorial, around 14 missions spread over all 3 races. It seems they put all their eggs in the multiplayer/e-sports basket, and didn't leave much for the single player, and that's all I've ever really played of DoW and RTS games in general.
Overall, I thought it was fun, though. I will probably get it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
General Annoyance wrote: Played about 5 games in total while the Beta played out. People probably aren't interested in my opinion by now, nor would they be surprised. Much like how Arch Warhammer said, DOW3 is incredibly similar to how Starcraft plays, and even features MOBA like play in both the game mode and the elite units. Personally I'm not a fan of either of those, and that's fine; the question I would have which I debated with my friend after we played DOW3 together is "why would you want to play DOW3 over Starcraft 2?". We couldn't think of a good answer other than the universe.
My biggest bug with the game is how little control you really have over the fighting. Other than triggering abilities, there's very little you can do to alter the course of a battle; nothing gains levels, so it doesn't matter much when they die and you have a float of resources (which you probably will have), and there's no cover other than the heavy cover to give you an advantage over other units. Basically blob your forces and keep spamming infantry and tanks and you can't go far wrong.
I'm honestly not trying to pick an internet fight, but I am curious. I've played a bit of SC2 and of DoW3 now, and how do they compare?
In your criticisms you mention that there's little control over fighting other than triggering abilities. How is SC2 different in this regard? As I recall, SC2 has about the same, or fewer, triggered abilities, in general. In what ways does SC2 control the fight better than DoW3?
For cover - does SC2 have a cover mechanic at all? I know DoW1 did, but DoW3 does, a bit, but it's hard to criticize DoW3 for having some when SC2 has none. At least, that I can recall.
As far as blobbing forces and spamming infantry and tanks - isn't that basically how all RTS games play, more or less?
Perhaps I'm betraying my ignorance of SC2, it's been a while since I've played.
Kap'n Krump wrote: I'm honestly not trying to pick an internet fight, but I am curious. I've played a bit of SC2 and of DoW3 now, and how do they compare?
The point there I was making is why would you play DOW3 over SC2, when they have such similar playstyles and mechanics?
Don't forget that Wings of Liberty is free to play now either. I'm not personally a fan of Starcraft, but I respect the game nonetheless. To call DOW3 a heavily inspired Starcraft game would not be far from the truth, apart from a few elements here and there.
Regarding that Blood Ravens painting video... Y'all know Karak Stone is closer to the unique bone colour of the Blood Ravens, right?
BrookM wrote: Who knows, maybe they'll do decals again for a set amount of time, like they did with Freeblade.
Considering the effort it took to get my BR decal sheet, I hope not
For me it's all about the setting. I like Wings of Liberty, but if there's a 40k game out there, my choice is made. I may or may not be a slave to it, as to date I have played most of the games put out with "40K" in the title, even a lot of the bad ones.
I honestly think this game is a mixture of the art style of starcraft 2, tower defense (heroes, units and important key buildings to destroy and protect) and a bit of Dawn of War 1 (the base building part). That's actually the best way to describe it.
I played 2vs2 orks (us) vs marines earlier when the open beta was still around and it was tough. We did lose. It was only my first game with orks and if i get this right the loot you can salvage (your dead vehicles and buildings or the enemies as well as timed drops from waaagh! banners) with your boyz improve their armor or hp and it seems at least the mekboy can do something with the salvage (turn them into turrets for a timed period making him defensive unless you wreck a lot of enemy buildings).
Perhaps this is weird but waaagh! banners esp. with loot and a mekboy can make the orks a disgustingly potent defensive force which doesn't make much sense. You can construct waaagh! banners anywhere just like all buildings but it takes time and would be best if you do so to secure ground. In most cases you still need an army to defend but Waaagh! banners also work up ork units into a frenzy.
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If i had to give my opinion i'd say eldar are surprisingly resilient (more than they should be with those shields) and are pretty powerful. Marines are also fairly powerful. Orks are probably the least powerful but honestly i think it needs more synergy with the loot and waaagh! banners which is strange to me. Lootaz also seemed really good and could handle marines in droves.
Orks being defensive somewhat, basic marines kinda sucking and eldar being fairly resilient makes no sense to me. Orks can be spammy but most of the basic troops suck. Oddly the only resilient ones may be eldar and that just blows my mind.
Oh yes, Orks need some special attention to really shine. Just throwing mobs at something is not going to work, as my brother discovered when he fed several mobs into a grinder made up of three Dreadnoughts.
Yeah, I played a few games with orks, and I think they really have to make good use of scrap.
And that mek's scrap turret ability can be amazing. I built waaagh banners, which spawn scrap at my outlying req points, and when they came under attack 5-6 scrap turrets put out some big damage. Almost killed gabe in like 15 seconds, though he was the only target.
Hero units are powerful, but not overly so thankfully. My Gabriel got taken out like a bitch by several mobs of orks. Funny death though, I made him leap towards a mob with his hammer held high, he landed, did his thing and then dropped dead.
The Gorkanaut is a tough fether though, my brother threw his against my Solaria and he, through the sneaky use of its abilities, effortlessly managed to destroy her.
BrookM wrote: For me it's all about the setting. I like Wings of Liberty, but if there's a 40k game out there, my choice is made. I may or may not be a slave to it, as to date I have played most of the games put out with "40K" in the title, even a lot of the bad ones.
Obviously we all understand the pull of 40k here (hopefully). Still, I'd rather go to a game that pays a level of respect to either 40k or Fantasy. Hell, Vermintide was so well done in that regard that I'm now interested in Fantasy, where before I remained far away from it for years and years.
DOW3 doesn't really pay any homage to 40k like the last 2 DOW's did, and that's what probably bugs me most. It doesn't help that there's such a stash of 40k/30k shovelware out there too; Carnage, Storm of Vengeance, Drop Pod Assault to name a few, as well as plenty of disappointments (Deathwing, Eternal Crusade).
Relic were pretty much the only devs with the 40k licence who looked like they cared about the universe just as much as players. I see little of that care in DOW3. In fact, the only lore-y thing I enjoyed in DOW3 is the notifications from other faction commanders on your side when they take points or send you pings.
angelofvengeance wrote: Interestingly, there's a new filter for Dawn of War III on the GW website. Looks like Jain Zar will be making an appearance, as well as the Deathwatch...
So you mean they finally started advertising their video games characters as models or similar? That took them what only 30 years?! 30 years to understand maybe the gamers would want to buy the actual GW minis of what game they played and possibly as a way to get them into the tabletop hobby.
Congratulations, you've found out that the CEO changed. Also, GW is actually not that big and thus isn't really able to do any publicity close to what CA/Sega did, so there's that too.
Nice tutorial - gotta love that blue-grey colour scheme
The ironic bit for me in that video is DOW2's "To Battle Brothers" at the start. Goes to show how nondescript the soundtrack for DOW3 is compared to it.
GW will no doubt raid audio assets from the game at a later date. Black Library uses a lot of the stock audio from the first game for their audio dramas.
It's still early days, we've only scratched the surface of what is in the game so far.
Though I will admit that I very much doubt the upcoming game will have something music wise as epic as Angels of Death, my personal favourite from the second game.
Well, considering that by the point of the beta there would have been nothing left outstanding for the dev team to do other than fix bugs/possibly do extra artwork for skins (the latter being a very common thing for art teams to do, hence why you see so much preorder skin bonus content across the gaming industry/day 1 skin packs), I'm pretty sure DOW3 has demonstrated most of what it has to offer for soundtrack.
To be honest, I barely noticed it most of the time.
There may be a gem hidden in there, but as you say, I sincerely doubt even that will beat anything DOW2 had to offer from Doyle Donehoo. His Eldar soundtrack alone whipped me up into a space elf loving frenzy after all:
Checked Steam just now and I was allowed to pre-load the game, which is good. Though chances are it probably won't unlock for me until tomorrow evening or the like.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's not a Rhino, but it will have to do..
Oh please all the other DoW soundtracks pale in comparison to the soundtrack of DoW 1 done by none other than jeremy soule (he did the music for 'skyrim'). Listen and weep tears at its endless beauty. Seriously it works so well with the atmosphere.
DOW1 had some pretty great themes going on there, but they do sound kinda dated; DOW2's tracks to me represented a better idea of the 40k universe combined with the voice acting. Not to say DOW1 doesn't, but DOW2 has the edge in most places, especially in capturing the universe.
Mind you, Inon Zur did a pretty fantastic job with the Necrons:
I agree with GA as much as I love DoW1 more than DoW 2 I liked 2's soundtrack better. There are some good ones in DoW1 but overall I feel DoW2 has the superior sound and art direction. It had good gameplay, but not the scale I was hoping for. The singleplayer was bad with the bullet sponge bosses.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Oh please all the other DoW soundtracks pale in comparison to the soundtrack of DoW 1 done by none other than jeremy soule (he did the music for 'skyrim'). Listen and weep tears at its endless beauty. Seriously it works so well with the atmosphere.
As good as Jeremy Soule is, his work on DoW 1 can not hold a candle to the music of DoW 2. Now his best work was on the Forgotten realms games, that is game music whom all others should have been compared to
As far as soundtrack goes, My favourite DoW track remains the Gregorian chant Jeremy Soule composed for the very first game, Also I like the Metamap themes from Dark crusade very much:
There are also regular Cadians in the game, though they are equipped with Forge World's hostile environment kit, which seem to double as space suits in the game.
So far, really enjoying it, aside from the semi-puzzle maps, though fail conditions thankfully do not translate into auto-losses.
On the bright side, elites can be levelled through the single player campaign, so for those who dislike multiplayer, but still want to faff about with their elites in skirmish (where for some reason you can't level them), there's that option.
Really, really hating the Eldar maps, which have a higher fail quota than others. Also isn't cool that the game doesn't auto-save at certain points. Bleh.
But at least I finally got to use Solaria in the campaign. I may have used her too much and had her solo everything but the final part of that mission, as she went from level 1 to level 7 in one go, being even higher levelled than Gabriel right now!
Her ability to give Whirlwinds something akin to phosphex rounds is amazing by the way, the best way to clear out shooty units stuck in that forcefield cover. Don't need to crack the shield, just drop some missiles on them and watch the fire eat them alive.
Also bonus points to them for having the orks at least once calling the space marines "beakies" again, like they used to.
Trondheim wrote: As good as Jeremy Soule is, his work on DoW 1 can not hold a candle to the music of DoW 2. Now his best work was on the Forgotten realms games, that is game music whom all others should have been compared to
You misspelled Guild Wars.
But I can see where he might not be considered to be the best choice for a 40K game - aside from maybe the Eldar. IMO his stuff is perfect for the fading space elves.
Trondheim wrote: As good as Jeremy Soule is, his work on DoW 1 can not hold a candle to the music of DoW 2. Now his best work was on the Forgotten realms games, that is game music whom all others should have been compared to
Trondheim wrote: As good as Jeremy Soule is, his work on DoW 1 can not hold a candle to the music of DoW 2. Now his best work was on the Forgotten realms games, that is game music whom all others should have been compared to
You misspelled Guild Wars.
But I can see where he might not be considered to be the best choice for a 40K game - aside from maybe the Eldar. IMO his stuff is perfect for the fading space elves.
No I dont waste my time on such games as Guild Wars
Anybody else see how negative the fan reviews are on steam? I only played the open beta at the end but sheesh so much hate on all the visible reviews. It says it's about 50/50 but yeesh.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: After reading a fair amount of the negative reviews. It would be generous to call them anything close to actual criticism.
The scummy ones are most likely going to float to the top of the pool, like they always do. Sometimes even those may have a glimmer of truth to them though. Credibility is a combination of both the opinion you're presenting and the way you're presenting it. Seems like a lot of people believe that only one of those is needed to judge the validity of criticism.
EDIT: Checked the top 3 reviews on the Steam page for the game. Do these sound like invalid criticism?
All in all my Conclusion about this game is:
Pro:
+ Atmosphere (Especially Orks are done amazing)
+ Nice graphics / animations
+ Every race is more or less unique (Marines rather standart/ Eldar weired)
+ Game speed (You dont generate too many resources and build big blob in 5 minutes)
+ Some levels are really challenging, especially on hard
Contra:
- Very sloppy campaign, I mean there is a story but after the first 3 missions its like (oh s**t we got 3 weeks left till release)
- Micromanagement in this game is INSANE, you got like 10 unit types with 15 abilities summed up. Without having like 5-7 overlapping groups you can forget the word efficiency
- Super stupid cover system, you enter a circle wait 7 seconds and then you get cover shield.....thats like dear god oO
- The elite menu is very dumb you dont know what you can click and when to click
- There is no defensive structure in the game so you always have to leave like 1/3 of you army in base -____- Also the listening post on resource is so strong that the constructor units are the only units struggling to destroy it.
- The End of the campaign is like "ehmm what, thats it ?"
- Almost NO unit customization, mean you buy specialized squads instead of equipping specialized equipment on your units eg. Space marines
- WRAITH KNIGHT CAN HIDE IN BUSHES(Its the 200 meter tall eldar guy) ...... YEAH RIGHT ?
- DENUVO
So all in all I absolutely DONT recommend to buy it for the actual price. I feel i wasted like 30 bucks because right now this game isnt worth more. A lot of DOW III feels as it was made in a hurry after reveal, the campaign, the menus,. etc. Again the hype has gotten stomped by simplification of very good designs like the mentioned cover system.
I really wanted to like this game. I own every dawn of war game and played the hell out of them. But I couldn't enjoy this one. The graphics are fine. The units are okay (it should be noted that I did like the addition of the Titans Solaria and the Knights, even the ork and eldar). But it was the lack of good campaign and the League of Legends play style that turned me away from this game. I can't even stress how much I wanted to like it. I had hope that it was going to be great until I played it. They should have stayed with their original play style it was so much better. I cannot give it my recommendation.
While the game is pretty, i feel like its a game of who can amass a larger army and over run your enemy. I feel there is no flanking, no actual strategy., cover system is garbage. The animations are meh... No kill syncs, a good example of meh....the IG shooting animations looks aweful... I think this game was rushed. Dont let the hours in game fool you, i also took part in the closed testing.
This is not a good successor of dow1 or 2....
Extra 10 bucks for only 3 armies too....
There are some cool ideas put in like the orks picking up scraps to upgrade weapons or armor.
The idea of large armies is nice, but more can be done to make thise more unique that something akin to starcraft.
Yes those are pretty good, though the third one seems a bit more limited considering that amassing a larger army and over-running tends to be heavily punished by nuker heroes.
I have yet to purchase the game so I am unsure how IG shooting animations and the Campaign are.
played for just over and hour, jesus this game sucks hard, i honestly think the good reviews are basically a load of total BS (gaming mags and sites specifically).
Got a refund, and now im thinking that there is a trend when it comes to AAA GW titles, no one cares about the game or the lore enough to make a good game anymore, RIP good GW games.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Yes those are pretty good, though the third one seems a bit more limited considering that amassing a larger army and over-running tends to be heavily punished by nuker heroes.
I have yet to purchase the game so I am unsure how IG shooting animations and the Campaign are.
They certainly aren't perfect, no, but I do think it is unfair to brand negative criticism of this game as lacking any value when stuff like that is at the top of board.
Watched a campaign playthrough and it looked fun. Cheesy writing, characters ruined via stupid design choices, but overall looked like something I could see myself playing.
Not for 60 bucks though. feth that. The fact that the dev's even thought to make this game 60 bucks is a joke in itself. Although given how AAA games are produced and launched these days, I can't say I'm surprised.
Frankenberry wrote: Watched a campaign playthrough and it looked fun. Cheesy writing, characters ruined via stupid design choices, but overall looked like something I could see myself playing.
Not for 60 bucks though. feth that. The fact that the dev's even thought to make this game 60 bucks is a joke in itself. Although given how AAA games are produced and launched these days, I can't say I'm surprised.
This is Sega right? That means they'll probably have hundreds of dollars worth of DLC content cut out of the game or to fix it and to be sold off at a later date .
I'm unsure about the AAA GW title example. I think Total War Warhammer was really good. It was just so unexpectedly massive. If i wasn't playing xcom 2 non-stop i'd probably play that instead. Also i've never been that into Total War games even if Warhammer Fantasy is one of my favorite series ever (shame it died though).
I'm mixed about the issue as it mostly seems the negative reviews are saying 'If you don't like starcraft or MOBA you will hate this game otherwise you'll love it". I really liked Dawn of War 1 myself as massed units and base building seemed preferred. The only faction i liked in Dawn of War 2 was imperial guard and they only added that in the last expansion. Dem leman russ executioners though (so sexy). Really wishing they'd get all the factions added again like dawn of war 1 mostly had. Sadly we'll probably never see dark eldar again though if they do show off nids maybe genestealer cults will be added in even if they add them as an NPC faction like guard tends to be before they're playable.
Frankenberry wrote: Watched a campaign playthrough and it looked fun. Cheesy writing, characters ruined via stupid design choices, but overall looked like something I could see myself playing.
Not for 60 bucks though. feth that. The fact that the dev's even thought to make this game 60 bucks is a joke in itself. Although given how AAA games are produced and launched these days, I can't say I'm surprised.
This is Sega right? That means they'll probably have hundreds of dollars worth of DLC content cut out of the game or to fix it and to be sold off at a later date .
I'm unsure about the AAA GW title example. I think Total War Warhammer was really good. It was just so unexpectedly massive. If i wasn't playing xcom 2 non-stop i'd probably play that instead. Also i've never been that into Total War games even if Warhammer Fantasy is one of my favorite series ever (shame it died though).
I'm mixed about the issue as it mostly seems the negative reviews are saying 'If you don't like starcraft or MOBA you will hate this game otherwise you'll love it". I really liked Dawn of War 1 myself as massed units and base building seemed preferred. The only faction i liked in Dawn of War 2 was imperial guard and they only added that in the last expansion. Dem leman russ executioners though (so sexy). Really wishing they'd get all the factions added again like dawn of war 1 mostly had. Sadly we'll probably never see dark eldar again though if they do show off nids maybe genestealer cults will be added in even if they add them as an NPC faction like guard tends to be before they're playable.
Oh, I figured any content would be released in massive waves of DLC that nickle and dime players. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they released a 'dlc' with an army editor or something down the line - given the love it got in the previous titles, it makes sense.
And maybe not every AAA title was launched poorly, I'll admit that. But of the last five years or so, the number of AAA titles released with massive issues and obvious cash-grab schemes has certainly risen. I'm surprised that there wasn't some Day 1 DLC for DOW3 honestly, some sort of 'hey you can buy the Chaos faction at launch! Only 14.99!'.
A lot of the reviews are pointing at the MOBA bits present; like tall grass to hide units (not a MOBA invention, but hey, people never remember that)that shouldn't be able to be hidden, like the fething Wraithknight. The campaign struck me as an attempt to mesh DoW1 and DoW2 without doing either very well. The abilities that characters have are so...cartoony and over the top. At least in the previous games, characters weren't these comic-style heroes with magic 'win all scenario' skills - if anything they were force multipliers, units meant to handle a specific set of circumstances - not a catch all for a lack of army.
I dunno, I think the idea that the game feels rushed and poorly planned is the best descriptor right now. It's a shame too because I was super excited about it.
Did not expect it, there was a hint dropped in the game as to the partial origins of the McGuffin everybody is fighting over, but it was a good unveil and a good sequel / DLC hook.
Whether or not it will deliver though..
My final thoughts after having played through the game quite a bit: It's okay, but not really mind blowing in terms of story, mechanics or delivery. The micromanagement is tedious to say the least, something that really doesn't work with the larger armies the game is promoting. In Dawn of War 2 I didn't mind the micromanaging, as there you've only got three or so squads to look out for, this on the other hand.. gah.
At least the Orks are Orky, the characters are all deliciously British and the Knights are so damned hot I'm playing this game without a shirt.
The good. Most of the voice acting is well done, aside from one (see below) and so full of epic British! One can only get so full of glee when Solaria belts out "Where kings lead, knights follow!" with those regal tones. Rowrrrrrrr.
Orks in particular have a fun feel and vibe to them, bringing back some of the laughs usually associated with them. Simple things like calling Ronahn "Ronnie" all the time, or building a super gun whose secondary fire does nothing but shriek out amusing insults towards the enemy in an attempt to demoralise them. WAAAGH!!! banners play loud rock music on activation, WAAAGH!!! abilities, when properly triggered are accompanied by fireworks (it works in context ) and the scrap mechanic is a fun one that means that Orks can crank out units almost anywhere on the map. They are still serious business, but at least they have some of their humour and colour back again. Now if only we could get Kaptin Bluddflag in this game as well..
Some of the themed single player maps, like Varlock Keep and the space stations look neat, have a constant loop of PA's in the background ("Warning: plasma exhausts are NOT meant to charge lasguns") and really look like they belong in 40k. Beats the usual "brown desert world" or "grey ruined city" scapes of the previous games.
Also, did I mention I really like Imperial Knights? This game has two in them! While a bit on the slow side movement wise, they certainly look and feel the part, plus handle completely differently from one another, making them not feel like they are rehashes of each other. There is also something very pleasing about spawning one in a multiplayer game, having it move up to the enemy and have your opponent remark "I hear these large thuds headings towards me, what's going on?"
There are bits of the story that are good and it all fits together with all of the previous games, including that really gakky one, to craft the bigger picture we have now.
The doctrine and elite ability system is an interesting one that gives some neat bonuses to your units. Not stuff like "+0,4% damage increase to ranged attacks" but stuff like "Whirlwind rockets now spray napalm upon detonation" or "Ork units heal upon gathering scrap" which while not completely game breaking, can make quite the difference in some instances. There are some gakky ones in there for sure, but overall these are handy tools that can buff certain units beyond their regular capability. Best of all, the system is also available for use in the single player campaign.
The bad. As said before, the amount of micro-management in this game is tedious! It was an aspect I did not mind when playing Dawn of War 2, when you only several four three man squads to faff about with, but with larger armies it just doesn't work as well. Especially not against the AI, which will sometimes ruthlessly exploit its ability to move units out of the way of triggered abilities, because these take time to activate. Selecting everything and sending it over in a single zerg rush certainly doesn't help either, unless you lack imagination like me and just build one unit over and over again, pair that with the right doctrines and send those off in an attack move at the enemy. Nothing that cannot be fixed with say, a large blob of souped-up Deff Dredds or a gakload of Wraithguard led by a Wraithlord.
With regards to the campaign, as I said before, I hate puzzle maps, or ones that require a very specific way of resolving them or suffering the consequences. So feth you Eldar missions, feth you and your fething "disable the alarms" conditions. You witches. Also feth you for having to build a mission around teleporting your base from plateau to plateau as you progress, with your base dying without warning (and thus getting a hard game over) because I ported it somewhere it was supposed to go, but you didn't fething telegraph to me that I was supposed to move it again.
There is also the lack of greatness with the campaign. Maybe I'm spoiled by the system hopping of Dawn of War 2, but this game tries hard to be epic, but ends up feeling rather small and contained. Less space opera and more monster of the week, which may be due to this all taking place on two planets and then some, instead of a small, but diverse system like in Dawn of War 2. Granted, that game did recycle the gak out of its limited palette of maps, but hopping from planet to planet with your small band of Marines rushing to contain the situation felt a lot more epic than what this game tried to pull off.
There's also the final mission.. bit of a groaner the way they went with the story, but I guess this appeals more to the non-die-hard fans of the franchise who don't know any better. I guess it's also something of a homage to the Last Stand mode from the second game. It does make me wonder who the writer for the campaign of this game is.
The current Gabriel Angelos is a rather large ham, with extra brick in his teeth on the side. I'd also love to hear why they made him the size of a Primarch. I know he got squashed in the previous game and had to be rebuilt, but this is a bit more than that, he's almost the same size as a Dreadnought now! And for those wondering, no, you cannot unlock the Deathwatch skin as of yet, the only thing Relic had to say about it was, it would be a future reward. So either on disc DLC orrrrrr hopefully, a free something extra.
The skulls system as a whole. Rather annoying and for me feels off on way too many levels, plus I'm sure certain members of these forums here are beating their meat raw to this, if only because of what is used as the currency to unlock everything. You only earn it through the play of multiplayer games and the odd levelling of elites, so if you want that shiny doctrine or unlock a certain unit for multiplayer games, better start saving up and not waste it on junk doctrines or the like.
The ugly? This is something quite a few Relic RTS games tend to do, which is take away all control from the game to show you something cinematic or story related going on. Other games do it as well, but for some reason I get really pissed off whenever one of their games does it, probably because it will also rearrange your units, or forcibly move them to another point when done.
The fixed camera angle (unless I missed out how to fiddle with the camera) is also annoying, as some maps have overhangs and the like under which enemy units can sometimes end up "hiding" and they are a bugger to get out of there. Some of these models look great, so the ability to zoom in while ingame and pan around is sorely missed.
As for what lies further down the road.. there's no season pass strangely enough, though with this game I would've passed up on it, as the core of the game is most certainly geared towards multiplayer sadly. There was mention somewhere of more multiplayer modes, so there's that at least and well.. there's still the chance that they'll just release other factions as multiplayer add-ons like they did with Company of Heroes 2. Or maybe they'll start selling skulls through an online store as well (unless this is already an option somewhere). The spoilered teaser a few posts up did surprise me, but it makes me wonder what it might entail. Another "full" campaign, or just a quickie made up of puzzle maps and rehashed skirmish maps.
For those interested in the achievements, of which there are 81, sorry to say, but they really half-assed ones..
* 18 for completing the campaign on casual difficulty (which is bugged for casual right now, the achievement for mission 17 displays the wrong text and for some reason upon completion it did not trigger the "Great job! You completed the entire campaign on Casual difficulty." achievement)
* 18 for completing the campaign on normal difficulty
* 18 for completing the campaign on hard difficulty
* 27 for pumping your various elites to level 10 (which all contain the same text "Level-up Elite to the max. Great job!")
My personal conclusion is that all in all, it's an okay game, certainly not the pile of gak some make it out to be, but certainly not as great as my personal favourite from the series, Dawn of War 2. However, for me personally it's a fun 40k game whose release coincided for me nicely with the hype of the upcoming 8th edition, which should keep me busy until that hits. There are certainly more worse games with the 40k IP out there at the moment, looking at you.. Deathwing and Inquisitor - Martyr. Ugh.
flamingkillamajig wrote: That's an odd choice for the next faction but sure why not. Not like the previous games so it's appreciated.
I don't think so because
Spoiler:
They were the main reason Dark Crusade sold so well, IIRC Dark Crusade is the largest selling game in the franchise. In addition, ever since their revamp in the Codex, they have been an Army just waiting to be put into an RTS. I am SUPER excited for them!
I don't know about everyone else, but I actually like DoW3 quite a bit.
It's not perfect, but if you liked DoW1, I expect you'd like DoW3.
The campaign is a bit predictable, and I would have preferred one campaign for each race, rather than one that involved all 3. But I guess multiple RTS campaigns are uncommon anymore (SC2 took 3 games to get 3 campaigns).
But the campaign is fun, and about as long as DoW1/2.
MP is also quite fun. The MOBA elements are honestly extremely minor, and I think are absolutely a positive improvement. They just serve as rally points and to prevent you from being zerg rushed or crushed after losing an early skirmish.
Basically, the MP games all but have to escalate until the point where both sides are rolling out big, heavy units and massive armies, and it just becomes a gigantic slug fest. Which I think is great.
The 3v3 MP is a blast. A bit of a mess, but fun.
The elite system is pretty good too, and has a fair amount of depth. My biggest complaint is that some elites seem not-that elite. Meganobz, terminators, stormboyz, deathwatch, warp spyders, striking scorpions, all take up 1 of 3 elite slots, and can't be built otherwise.
Overall, I like it. I'm not going to get as much out of it as I did from TW:Warhammer, but it's a solid game, and I'm hoping it gets some expansions.
Kap'n Krump wrote: It's not perfect, but if you liked DoW1, I expect you'd like DoW3.
This is a line of argument I see a lot, but just don't understand. I think DOW1 has aged poorly, but I'd still take it over what DOW3 is offering any day of the week. Why? Because while the base building is far more intrusive than in DOW3, it offers real battlefield control with squad mechanics and loadouts, a morale system, cover and terrain advantages that are far more in depth than DOW3's high ground mechanic, heavy cover and hiding spots. In general it's just a better 40k experience which feels a lot more tied in with the universe it's trying to recreate rather than a fairly core and simplistic game with a veneer of paint over it.
DOW3's an absolutely fine game, but that's about it. It's pretty hard to cock up an RTS though, unless there are serious bugs or balancing issues, which DOW3 has neither of (outside of arguably cheap Elite units). That's what's more disappointing to me than anything else in DOW3 - that it's so painfully average and so rarely shows flickers of promise, with only a few really interesting mechanics, which are also not fleshed out enough to make a difference.
Again, the question that buries DOW3 in my eyes is "why would you play it over Starcraft if you like that type of strategy game, and why would you play it over DOW1/2 if you like the universe?"
There are a few things in DoW1 that still bug me to this day.. I still Abhor what they did to firing on the move in Dark Crusade by dropping it from 50% to 10%. Thus making assault cannons on Dreadnoughts pointless and allowing Eldar a massive benefit to their Fleet of Foot ability.
Eldar in general was absolutely broken. Dawn of Eldar jokes aside they really needed a nerf and it seemed like the developers enjoyed buffing them while destroying counters (Why did you ruin my Basalisks and other artillery! ) Also the move to make a tech tree rather then DoW1's original method of allowing hard counters in every tier, as well as destroying the CSM's ability to get all four weapons for some strange reason.
I still enjoy DoW1 in some measure, but the balance team was abysmal.
Friend of mine told me about this new Steam workshop mod that allows you to take control of heroes in game and battle it out! This looks like the beginning of Last Stand, something I wanted in this game which wasn't added. This mod is in the early stages but I think it's on the correct path to greatness, plus you can have it as PVP! Hope you enjoy the video.
I only jumped to the conclusion since I didn't have 50 minutes when I first saw it. Not sure if there is a "TB gets it slightly wrong with 40k" episode in there, but will check later.
He can be quite off about the fluff from time to time, really giving a vibe of "WHAT IS THIS, I DON'T EVEN" of someone who claims to know a lot, but has been out of it for quite some time now.
BrookM wrote: He can be quite off about the fluff from time to time, really giving a vibe of "WHAT IS THIS, I DON'T EVEN" of someone who claims to know a lot, but has been out of it for quite some time now.
Any examples?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Wait... He has a massive Sega Boycott, why is he reviewing DoW3? Can't exactly view it right yet.
He addresses that in the video, basically he said Sega's had quite a few interesting releases as of late and that it would be unfair to the consumer to not to report on them so he's removing the ban. Plus he's come to terms with the idea that Sega is probably never going to apologise or
acknowledge the copyright abuse they've done to him, that he's just going to have to accept that.
This is a line of argument I see a lot, but just don't understand. I think DOW1 has aged poorly, but I'd still take it over what DOW3 is offering any day of the week. Why? Because while the base building is far more intrusive than in DOW3, it offers real battlefield control with squad mechanics and loadouts, a morale system, cover and terrain advantages that are far more in depth than DOW3's high ground mechanic, heavy cover and hiding spots. In general it's just a better 40k experience which feels a lot more tied in with the universe it's trying to recreate rather than a fairly core and simplistic game with a veneer of paint over it.
DOW3's an absolutely fine game, but that's about it. It's pretty hard to cock up an RTS though, unless there are serious bugs or balancing issues, which DOW3 has neither of (outside of arguably cheap Elite units). That's what's more disappointing to me than anything else in DOW3 - that it's so painfully average and so rarely shows flickers of promise, with only a few really interesting mechanics, which are also not fleshed out enough to make a difference.
Again, the question that buries DOW3 in my eyes is "why would you play it over Starcraft if you like that type of strategy game, and why would you play it over DOW1/2 if you like the universe?"
I'll warrant that there aren't many unit upgrades in 3, like there were in 1, but just about every single unit has an ability you can use for greater battlefield control. Grenades, dashes, buffs, debuffs of all kind.
Morale is something I really liked about DoW1, and I am a bit sorry to see it go. But cover and terrain, IIRC, in DoW1 had a somewhat limited effect.
And I'm not sure I'd agree that DoW is a simplistic game. There's a lot of flexibility and nuances with the elite choices, and a lot of mastery to be had by managing your unit's abilities more effectively. If anything, I'd probably call it over complicated, mostly due to the amount of micromanagement needed over your units to be effective. Especially as orks, with their scrap mechanic.
But to answer your last question regarding why would you play it over starcraft - do you ask yourself of any RTS that comes out, "why would I play a new RTS when I can play starcraft?" - the answer is, I suppose, because it's a different game? Same goes for playing it over DoW1/2, though it really does play very similarly to DoW1.
I mean, don't get me wrong. DoW3 isn't GOTY 10/10 best game EVAR, but I feel as if too many aren't even giving it a fair consideration. It's decent. Is it better than DoW1? Eh, maybe not, but it's new, and fun, and worth a look. Least in my opinion.
I have a large number of complaints about this game but I think one of the key issues is that it is too... arcade-y. It has a ton of flashy FX and high polycount models (even if I dislike the new less gritty artstyle), but it lacks substance (only one game mode to DoW2's 3 and DoW1's who knows how many, low map count, low faction count...)
It can be expanded, sure, but the other games were too. DoW3 is weaker right out of the gate. As a fervent modder I pay a lot of attention to what lies beneath the shiny special effects and wacky Ork voice acting, and I don't like what I see - animations that look over a decade old, for example, and overall really a worrying focus on breadth over depth (not actually dissimilar to the tragic downfall of Spore).
The game relies too much on its spices and forgets to have proper meat. For this reason I strongly worry for the game's longevity.
The game will not last long and the blip on the radar will soon be gone again, especially not with such a hard focus on a very limited multiplayer mode that feels unfinished. As TB pointed out, this seems very much geared towards competitive eSports, but chances of this being the next big thing for it are laughably small.
It remains to be seen what Relic has planned for the game to keep it in the spotlight. DLC, both paid and unpaid, will be the deal breaker in the long run. One would hope for more of the latter, given the retail price of the game and a severe lack of content thus far..
At least two things are planned right now, one involving the teaser shown post credits, the other being something involving the Deathwatch, as Gabriel's model has a third, as of yet locked away skin, showing him in Deathwatch livery. Or maybe the two are part of the same thing, who knows?
Oh, I'll definitely say DoW3 is better than DoW1, myself. It's not as obnoxiously clunky, base building was more intuitive and less intrusive, units don't march in tragically perfect square formations, and so on and so forth.
I just don't think it's better than DoW2.
But I say that with a caveat of course-- I haven't played the single player campaign yet for DoW3, I have only played the multiplayer beta, which was incredibly limited. Yet even that alone was better than DoW1. DoW1 was a decent enough game for its time, but games have moved on and gotten better since then.
Kap'n Krump wrote: I'll warrant that there aren't many unit upgrades in 3, like there were in 1, but just about every single unit has an ability you can use for greater battlefield control. Grenades, dashes, buffs, debuffs of all kind.
Perhaps that is so, but it certainly doesn't feel like positioning of your troops matters outside of heavy cover. You could argue for high ground advantages too, but I couldn't find many places in my time on the Beta where that helped turn the tide of combat.
Morale is something I really liked about DoW1, and I am a bit sorry to see it go. But cover and terrain, IIRC, in DoW1 had a somewhat limited effect.
It did, yes. At least it was there though, in proper, and certainly had more practicality than heavy cover in DOW3
And I'm not sure I'd agree that DoW is a simplistic game. There's a lot of flexibility and nuances with the elite choices, and a lot of mastery to be had by managing your unit's abilities more effectively. If anything, I'd probably call it over complicated, mostly due to the amount of micromanagement needed over your units to be effective. Especially as orks, with their scrap mechanic.
So a deckbuilding micromanagement RTS then, aka. simplistic in all the wrong areas, complicated in all the wrong areas. Much like the TT game.
But to answer your last question regarding why would you play it over starcraft - do you ask yourself of any RTS that comes out, "why would I play a new RTS when I can play starcraft?" - the answer is, I suppose, because it's a different game? Same goes for playing it over DoW1/2, though it really does play very similarly to DoW1.
I do not, no, but put two and two together and you have that kind of question. I'm personally not a fan of Starcraft type RTS, which should be blatantly obvious by now, but it must have some merit to be loved by so many. As we have determined before, comparing DOW3 to Starcraft positively or negatively is not far from the truth, hence why I ask "why play it over Starcraft?" - the game that is cheaper to pick up, has a bigger community, plenty of mod support already and a fairly similar premise to combat. The only reason you'd say no is because you love 40k, but DOW3 doesn't even get that right; lackluster voice acting and direction compared to the last instalment, lazy cutscenes and story buildup, and far too many lore breakers to ignore for the sake of gameplay.
That's the biggest point there that I'm trying to stress; the guys behind DOW3 wanted to make a Starcraft-esc strategy game combined with COH2's doctrines and a new Elite system. Sounds great, I guess. But why did they have to use the 40k licence to achieve that?
I mean, don't get me wrong. DoW3 isn't GOTY 10/10 best game EVAR, but I feel as if too many aren't even giving it a fair consideration. It's decent. Is it better than DoW1? Eh, maybe not, but it's new, and fun, and worth a look. Least in my opinion.
I've given it fair consideration, in the face of people who'd rather have me shut up for no good reason at all because apparently I hate this game. I don't; it's absolutely fine. But that hurts much more than the idea of a new DOW game being complete crap if you ask me.
Perhaps it does beat DOW1, but the fact that there's doubt that it could beat a clunky and rusty RTS that's over a decade old is pretty telling of its overall value to strategy gamers and 40k fans. Keep in mind that the RTS genre is a stagnant genre, perhaps with more "classics" than any other genre out there in gaming, reason being it's hard to innovate properly in the RTS genre without either doing more of the same or screwing it up. DOW3 seems to fall into the former, unfortunately.
Melissia wrote: Oh, I'll definitely say DoW3 is better than DoW1, myself. It's not as obnoxiously clunky, base building was more intuitive and less intrusive, units don't march in tragically perfect square formations, and so on and so forth.
I just don't think it's better than DoW2.
But I say that with a caveat of course-- I haven't played the single player campaign yet for DoW3, I have only played the multiplayer beta, which was incredibly limited. Yet even that alone was better than DoW1. DoW1 was a decent enough game for its time, but games have moved on and gotten better since then.
I can see your point in terms of mechanics, which are well over dated in DOW1. However, DOW1 carried the charm and atmosphere of the 40k universe to a greater extent than DOW3, and that is very important for a 40k based game to do; if you can't nail the universe like DOW2 or at least get fairly close with DOW1 (we'll forget about Boreale's Metal Boxes for a minute) why do you need the 40k licence to make your game into something worth playing?
From what Ive seen, heard and read here I think I will skip DoW3. Sadly Relic seems to only have survived in name. Its been quite downhill since CoH and DoW2.
Disciple of Fate wrote: From what Ive seen, heard and read here I think I will skip DoW3. Sadly Relic seems to only have survived in name. Its been quite downhill since CoH and DoW2.
Quite is an understatement if I ever heard one, but yes. Relic of old is long, long gone and instead we get games like DoW 3
I hate the overly colourful almost cartoonist art style of the game. I Much preferred Dow 2.
In fact I quite liked Dow 2, being able to level up and customise squads skills and loadouts, almost like tabletop 40k. The only thing I truly disliked was how they scaled the size of the units down to combat squad size.
A scaled up Dow 2 would have been awesome, but with more focus on macro management rather than micro.
That said , its on my wishlist and I might get it in a year when the price drops by half to £20, even if just out of nostalgia and a desire to play more 40k.
Disciple of Fate wrote: From what Ive seen, heard and read here I think I will skip DoW3. Sadly Relic seems to only have survived in name. Its been quite downhill since CoH and DoW2.
Quite is an understatement if I ever heard one, but yes. Relic of old is long, long gone and instead we get games like DoW 3
Lets not be too harsh, no sense in beating a dead horse
Disciple of Fate wrote: From what Ive seen, heard and read here I think I will skip DoW3. Sadly Relic seems to only have survived in name. Its been quite downhill since CoH and DoW2.
Quite is an understatement if I ever heard one, but yes. Relic of old is long, long gone and instead we get games like DoW 3
Lets not be too harsh, no sense in beating a dead horse
No. You turn it into a servitor and put it to work. Something something *insert 40k joke here*. I don't even know what I'm saying but the idea of a horse servitor makes me laugh.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I hate the overly colourful almost cartoonist art style of the game. I Much preferred Dow 2.
In fact I quite liked Dow 2, being able to level up and customise squads skills and loadouts, almost like tabletop 40k. The only thing I truly disliked was how they scaled the size of the units down to combat squad size.
A scaled up Dow 2 would have been awesome, but with more focus on macro management rather than micro.
That said , its on my wishlist and I might get it in a year when the price drops by half to £20, even if just out of nostalgia and a desire to play more 40k.
I have similar feelings towards the graphics. DoW 2 on the scale of the first CoH would have been the best for me. That was the dream and I really like that DoW 2 took a step in that direction with cover and vehicles and such, but it never got the scale right. DoW 3 with upgraded graphics from 2 in the game play style of the CoH Blitzkrieg mod would have been my fantasy 40K game!
Disciple of Fate wrote: From what Ive seen, heard and read here I think I will skip DoW3. Sadly Relic seems to only have survived in name. Its been quite downhill since CoH and DoW2.
Quite is an understatement if I ever heard one, but yes. Relic of old is long, long gone and instead we get games like DoW 3
Lets not be too harsh, no sense in beating a dead horse
No. You turn it into a servitor and put it to work. Something something *insert 40k joke here*. I don't even know what I'm saying but the idea of a horse servitor makes me laugh.
The only thing I'm imagining now is a regular servitor with one of those ridiculous horse masks on
Yes, that's exactly what I want. A reskinned Company of Heroes (1).
Company of Heroes had a much improved cover system over Dow. Pinning & morale. Artillery. Aircraft (as special abilities). Large unit sizes. Tech trees. Destructible terrain.
Exactly, the modding community also improved on it so much. It really felt epic to fight over a city that started off undamaged and slowly just watch it being bombed and shelled into ruins to fight over. The mods for crazier AI and no pop cap were sooo good, nothing like fighting off AI hordes of tanks and infantry while slowly advancing or getting pushed back. Pop cap really holds back a lot of these games, CoH already had diminishing incomes for army size, never got the pop limit on top.
DoW 2 just had a few desert dwellings or a city parking lot to fight over, while DoW 1 was ridiculously blobby and didn't feel realistic at all.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Exactly, the modding community also improved on it so much. It really felt epic to fight over a city that started off undamaged and slowly just watch it being bombed and shelled into ruins to fight over. The mods for crazier AI and no pop cap were sooo good, nothing like fighting off AI hordes of tanks and infantry while slowly advancing or getting pushed back. Pop cap really holds back a lot of these games, CoH already had diminishing incomes for army size, never got the pop limit on top.
DoW 2 just had a few desert dwellings or a city parking lot to fight over, while DoW 1 was ridiculously blobby and didn't feel realistic at all.
No please noting like CoH1. I would much rather have a game that had a similar line of progress as DoW2, drop the basebuilding and endless hordes of troops and vehicels. A game where you get rewarded for conserving your squads and leveling them are much better and feels a lot more rewarding that just a grindfest as DoW1 was.
I will agree after a couple hours of play I miss the campaign from dawn of war soul. It was fun and easy to play when on hard could give a good challange.
But this game lacks a few things bigger maps, unit formations and lack of diverse buildings.
It is not on par with dawn of war, the mass troops and the epic long battles. It is almost like they took dawn of war and mixed it with that crap CoH dawn of war reskin that basically killed the genre and company a couple years back.
If they shrink the units, increase the number of buildings, add formations and nerf down the elites remove the global abilites and add more points then add a single player campaign like in soul it can be a great sequel to dawn of war genre and we can all get the horrible taste of the remake of CoH reskin out of our mouth.
But this one is more popular so there is a chance. They perfected dawn of war when soul came out if they could remake that with better graphics and add more to that game it would be perfect. There is still 100+ online at night.....
Trondheim wrote: No please noting like CoH1. I would much rather have a game that had a similar line of progress as DoW2, drop the basebuilding and endless hordes of troops and vehicels. A game where you get rewarded for conserving your squads and leveling them are much better and feels a lot more rewarding that just a grindfest as DoW1 was.
Perhaps, but I'd prefer the unit scale of Dow 1. I didn't like the tiny squads of 3 space marines in Dow 2.
Dawn of War 1 and Dawn of War 3 are a company / Chapter at war experience, whereas Dawn of War 2 for the most part very much felt like a demi-company or even a special strike force operating under extreme circumstances.
BrookM wrote: Dawn of War 1 and Dawn of War 3 are a company / Chapter at war experience, whereas Dawn of War 2 for the most part very much felt like a demi-company or even a special strike force operating under extreme circumstances.
DoW1 was a butcherious (that is a word now) meat grinder of a game, which feels completely absurd to involve Space Marines in.
It was a decent enough game if it was just IG vs Orks, but Space Marines do not do the 'throw more reinforcements at it until it's gone' thing at all. DoW1 was immersionbreaking because it just wasn't functional from an in-universe perspective.
Even DoW2 had you usually take unsustainably high losses as Marine players even when you win, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to DoW1. Seriously, fire warriors were more expensive than space marines in that game. It's just comedy at that point.
BrookM wrote: Dawn of War 1 and Dawn of War 3 are a company / Chapter at war experience, whereas Dawn of War 2 for the most part very much felt like a demi-company or even a special strike force operating under extreme circumstances.
DoW1 was a butcherious (that is a word now) meat grinder of a game, which feels completely absurd to involve Space Marines in.
It was a decent enough game if it was just IG vs Orks, but Space Marines do not do the 'throw more reinforcements at it until it's gone' thing at all. DoW1 was immersionbreaking because it just wasn't functional from an in-universe perspective.
Even DoW2 had you usually take unsustainably high losses as Marine players even when you win, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to DoW1. Seriously, fire warriors were more expensive than space marines in that game. It's just comedy at that point.
Seriously
Blood Ravens[edit]
Main article: Blood Ravens
Its a long story, see the main article.
Celestial Lions[edit]
Main article: Celestial Lions
Get their gak handled to them by *cough* ork snipers *cough*, for having the balls to tell the Inquisition to feth off. Currently lost all their officers and apothecaries, and rely on Black Templar apothecaries to rebuild their numbers.
Crimson Fists[edit]
Main article: Crimson Fists
Perhaps the most famous chapter on the brink, these guys were famously messed up when their Chapter's fortress monastery's ammunition supply was detonated by a stray shell that somehow passed through its shields during an assault by Waaagh Snagrod. Over half the chapter was annihilated excluding its chapter master, Pedro Kantor. Despite this the chapter regrouped under its still living leader and proceeded to kick the Orks off their planet.
Emperor's Scythes[edit]
Main article: Emperor's Scythes
This chapter currently only consists on 2 companies; "the battle company" and a growing scout company. This chapter was nommed by Hive Fleet Kraken, giving these guys a serious hard on for dead nids. The 6th edition Space marine codex suggests they actually know more about killing bugs than the Ultramarines.
Invaders[edit]
Main article: Invaders
Lost like half of their chapter when they (successfully) tried to solo an entire fething craftworld. Well, a damaged and partially nommed craftworld, but still, impressive. Then the other Eldar invaded and purged their homeworld, wiping half of the remaining chapter. Few years later Invaders engaged in the World Engine conflict and lost two full terminator squads and probably few ships. While some other chapter might get the message fate keeps slapping them with and try to rebuild their numbers for a decade or two, the Invaders continued to jump into trouble like they heard the universe was handing out asses and they've known nothing but years of bitter ass-famine. They would continue to charge into danger and get their butts handed to them until they eventually walked into a trap set by none other than Ahriman himself. Only thirteen or so Invaders got out alive, and even then only thanks to some help from the Grey Knights.
Lamenters[edit]
Main article: Lamenters
These guys had the misfortune on joining the rebels in the Badab war. After the war, their homeworld was forfeited and the Emperor's Scythes were tasked with making sure they didn't do anything else heretical while they were on their century long penitent crusade during which they can't train new marines. However they became friends with the Emperor's Scythes meaning they also got nommed by Hive Fleet Kraken.
Marines Errant[edit]
Main article: Marines Errant
Although their chapter isn't far from full strength all their geneseed got stolen Blud Rahvens style by the Red Corsairs. Huron, leader of the corsairs, distracted them with shiny ships forcing them out onto patrol and then attacked their chapter fortress. So now they are doomed to slowly die from excessive power-facepalming.
Thats just googling almost wiped out chapters lol. There is a few in dark angles that mention they have to call it off for a while because they almost wiped out their own chapter by refusing to ever back down.
Here are some more
Astral Knights killed themselves off fighting necron to the last man
Crimson Consuls died fighting alpha legion
Dark Paladins fell fighting mech xeno
Emperor's Swords (Bellicas) necrons again
Emperor's Swords (Ghorstangrad) alpha legion again
I don't get the point. Those are extreme cases of Space Marines desperately defending their homeworlds, trapped by Tyranids, or otherwise victims to unusual circumstances.
Any such extreme circumstances are not at all portrayed in the DoW1 MP game superstructure itself; they are just skirmishes.
If the third game is anything to go by, the Blood Ravens should be all but extinct by now, but then again, the events of Soulstorm (half the chapter wiped out) and Retribution have also steered the Chapter towards total annihilation, only for them to somehow rebound in no time at all.
Hard capped numbers would get in the way of an enjoyable game though. Sure, it is an affront to the background and the fluff, but sometimes compromises must be made for the sake of gameplay.
"Oh I'm sorry, you've spent your 100 Marines, so your company is wiped out now, thus it is game over for you scrub! GG."
Ashiraya wrote: I don't get the point. Those are extreme cases of Space Marines desperately defending their homeworlds, trapped by Tyranids, or otherwise victims to unusual circumstances.
Any such extreme circumstances are not at all portrayed in the DoW1 MP game superstructure itself; they are just skirmishes.
Thats not true in the first one there was blood angle relcis needing to be found then then later on their was info if found could show the blood angles past and make them heresy style "which is why the witch hunters showed up" So it does fall in line, why they risk everything.
As for the reason in dow2 who knows what the story was in that train wreck. They had a 5 man crusade to conquer the galaxy or some gak then the hive swarm of 7 showed up.... Then the orks wanted a hat... ok that is awesom.
Ashiraya wrote: I don't get the point. Those are extreme cases of Space Marines desperately defending their homeworlds, trapped by Tyranids, or otherwise victims to unusual circumstances.
Any such extreme circumstances are not at all portrayed in the DoW1 MP game superstructure itself; they are just skirmishes.
Thats not true in the first one there was blood angle relcis needing to be found then then later on their was info if found could show the blood angles past and make them heresy style "which is why the witch hunters showed up" So it does fall in line, why they risk everything.
As for the reason in dow2 who knows what the story was in that train wreck. They had a 5 man crusade to conquer the galaxy or some gak then the hive swarm of 7 showed up.... Then the orks wanted a hat... ok that is awesom.
Ashiraya wrote: I don't get the point. Those are extreme cases of Space Marines desperately defending their homeworlds, trapped by Tyranids, or otherwise victims to unusual circumstances.
Any such extreme circumstances are not at all portrayed in the DoW1 MP game superstructure itself; they are just skirmishes.
So, instead of admitting that he has a point, you just ignore the evidence. Sounds like quality Dakka posting to me.
Also, on topic, @BrooKM did you pre-order and get the skin for...Solaria? Or whoever the knight is?
Frankenberry wrote: So, instead of admitting that he has a point, you just ignore the evidence.
I said that his evidence is too anecdotal, which is not the same as ignoring it.
DoW1 depicts completely standard pitched, matched battles between two forces of similar numbers that have ample time to retreat, advance or construct fortifications. Why is a Chapter being slowly assassinated by inquisitorial snipers used as a comparison? Why is a chapter landing on a planet-sized starcraft, blowing it up, and getting blown up in the process used as a comparison? Why is a chapter almost literally drowning in a million times their number in Tyranids used as a comparison? Those are all extreme situations, situations that are all exceptions to the very standard battes that are DoW1.
This is about DoW1, but DoW3 has a lot of the same problems.
So, instead of admitting that I have a point, you just ignore the evidence. Sounds like quality Dakka posting to me.
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.
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That was a bit of a joke.
On a more serious note you really have to understand the actual role of the Space Marines. A deployment against a predictable enemy detachment of about equal numbers is almost the perfect situation for their battlefield role (the only thing that would have been better would be dropping right on top of the enemy). The point of their superior speed, firepower, resilience, training and equipment is so that they can quickly and efficiently eliminate a target enemy force and then move on to their next mission. The really small IG force (and yes, high dozens to low hundreds is really tiny as far as IG armies go), for example, depicted in a DoW1 game is just the kind of opponent the SM can sweep aside really quickly and then move on. SM don't want even battles. They are too few and their recruitment too slow and awkward to deal with attrition well.
So what should they have done? Make the average DoW1 (or 2, or 3...) battle depict a setup gone wrong for the marines. Reduce their squad size and leave the stats per squad the same. Now you have a matchup that works both in lore and for balance. DoW2 did this, which is great, though they could have gone further than they did (I made a mod for that but that's another story).
Frankenberry wrote: Also, on topic, @BrooKM did you pre-order and get the skin for...Solaria? Or whoever the knight is?
I did not get the special skins, which are locked away with a separate code I think? A day before release I only received my serial for the core game itself, which was from a German physical copy, so maybe the Germans didn't get them pre-order bonuses, or they forgot about it. Bit miffed, as while the Dark Queen skin is naff, the other two, especially Beauty with its engine head, look especially nice. Though it would not surprise me if these became available as DLC or part of a GOTY edition later down the road, they did the same with the equipment packs for the commanders of Dawn of War II - Retribution and certain bits and bobs from Space Marine IIRC.
Really, really back on topic, they rolled out a small patch yesterday with a load of fixes and quite eerily, as something TB mentioned being a massive factor in multiplayer games, the ability to surrender, because that's what this game really needed.
New You can now surrender in multiplayer matches
Improved Ronahn’s Long Shot now shows a line on the minimap when aiming
Improved presentation in Player Profile screen
Bug Fixes Fixed assorted rare crashes
Fixed issue where a chat command (/leave) could cause a crash
Fixed broken link to modding wiki in Steam Workshop page
Fixed flow issues with quick-matching versus AI when in a party
Fixed potential progression blocker in Mission 17
Fixed issue with knockback in water
Fixed additional instances of ability usage visible through the fog of war
Fixed extra scrap being generated by drop pods after their wrecks were looted
Fixed text display issues in Steam Workshop
Fixed issue with Gorkanaut Rokkit Fist if you issued a move order immediately after using it
Disabled incorrectly active buttons during quick match countdown
Fixed issue with melee tie up of ranged units placed in melee stance
Jain Zar now has visual FX for her scream passive
Fixed issue where Bonesinger could become invisible if its Warp ability was canceled
Fixed occasional animation issues with Land Speeder crew
Eldritch Storm conduit can no longer capture heavy cover
Fixed shared cooldown on Bomb Squig and Rokkit Barrage abilities on Tankbustas
Fixed missing decor upgrades on Space Marine Stronghold building when player tiers up
Fixed missing visual FX on Jonah Orion’s Fury of the Ancients when inside the Stonewall created by Plant the Standard
Fixed issue where Elites could get trapped behind the colossus gate in Mission 13
Fixed issue where certain doctrines had no effect on units deployed via drop pod
Fixed issue where “Hide In-World UI” option applied to some campaign objects, causing progression blockers in Mission 7 and difficulty elsewhere
Fixed issue with certain missions reporting 0 XP earned
Fixed issue in which Shield Generator shields could be repaired by builder units
Fixed issue where Kill Team Ironmaw’s respawn time was not properly increasing when killed in multiplayer games
Fixed missing tooltips for Elites on post-match screen
Removed non-functional play button in Steam Workshop
Fixed issue where Macha’s mastery skin would permanently leave elements in the world after she was killed
Fixed issue where Campaign Map button on rewards screen had to be pressed twice to access that screen
Fixed issue where connected Webway Gates would not display FX
Fixed assorted camera stutters when skipping NISes
Fixed non-functional secondary highlight in Doctrine Selector in Elites screen
Fixed issue where Venerable Dreadnought Toss ability was not stunning infantry
So, instead of admitting that I have a point, you just ignore the evidence. Sounds like quality Dakka posting to me.
.
.
.
That was a bit of a joke.
On a more serious note you really have to understand the actual role of the Space Marines. A deployment against a predictable enemy detachment of about equal numbers is almost the perfect situation for their battlefield role (the only thing that would have been better would be dropping right on top of the enemy). The point of their superior speed, firepower, resilience, training and equipment is so that they can quickly and efficiently eliminate a target enemy force and then move on to their next mission. The really small IG force (and yes, high dozens to low hundreds is really tiny as far as IG armies go), for example, depicted in a DoW1 game is just the kind of opponent the SM can sweep aside really quickly and then move on. SM don't want even battles. They are too few and their recruitment too slow and awkward to deal with attrition well.
So what should they have done? Make the average DoW1 (or 2, or 3...) battle depict a setup gone wrong for the marines. Reduce their squad size and leave the stats per squad the same. Now you have a matchup that works both in lore and for balance. DoW2 did this, which is great, though they could have gone further than they did (I made a mod for that but that's another story).
You do not have a point, you are just blatantly or inadvertently ignoring others points, with your own anecdotal evidence. So the thought that comes to the for front when you believe "think" you are winning an argument or portraying your point of view is that people believe you are not worth the time, do not understand a counter argument or are too self righteous to admit you make mistakes.
BrookM wrote: Hard capped numbers would get in the way of an enjoyable game though. Sure, it is an affront to the background and the fluff, but sometimes compromises must be made for the sake of gameplay.
"Oh I'm sorry, you've spent your 100 Marines, so your company is wiped out now, thus it is game over for you scrub! GG."
That sounds like a brilliant idea for a self forged campaign if you ask me
Oh yeah, a different game entirely, but that would be such a great 40k game if the concept was well executed.
It could probably work within DOW2's framework as an RTS, just on a bigger campaign scale with no particular narrative other than to attempt to save a world in the name of the God Emperor.
Would also be an opportunity to ditch the Blood Ravens. As much as I love them, they are hogging the limelight in 40k videogames a little too much.
The Blood Ravens are damaged beyond repair by now, but ingame and outside of it at this point, but using a non-GW created chapter is the best thing to do really with that sort of stuff.
What I'd love to see is a mode centred around the super-heavies, akin to that tank mode from the second Company of Heroes expansion.
Check out Wargame Red dragon or Steel Division: Normandy 44 for how to do a limited numbers army game. If your not familiar with them already. They both involve building your armies which are made of limited components. So if you are bad and get all your infantry in one blob and die from a big artillery attack you won't have anymore left.
So you need to really plan your method of attack. Also there is supply lines as well. You need to think about where your off map resupply is coming from and where you want to put your resupply trucks and vehicles.
I so want them do to a 40k version of Wargame/Normady 44. I suspect they would take out supply lines though since that might be too complicated for an average 40kDoW player.
So, instead of admitting that I have a point, you just ignore the evidence. Sounds like quality Dakka posting to me.
.
.
.
That was a bit of a joke.
On a more serious note you really have to understand the actual role of the Space Marines. A deployment against a predictable enemy detachment of about equal numbers is almost the perfect situation for their battlefield role (the only thing that would have been better would be dropping right on top of the enemy). The point of their superior speed, firepower, resilience, training and equipment is so that they can quickly and efficiently eliminate a target enemy force and then move on to their next mission. The really small IG force (and yes, high dozens to low hundreds is really tiny as far as IG armies go), for example, depicted in a DoW1 game is just the kind of opponent the SM can sweep aside really quickly and then move on. SM don't want even battles. They are too few and their recruitment too slow and awkward to deal with attrition well.
So what should they have done? Make the average DoW1 (or 2, or 3...) battle depict a setup gone wrong for the marines. Reduce their squad size and leave the stats per squad the same. Now you have a matchup that works both in lore and for balance. DoW2 did this, which is great, though they could have gone further than they did (I made a mod for that but that's another story).
Wasn't interested in the inevitable back and forth with no resolution argument that was to follow. But still, touche.
And I understand perfectly well how Marines operate - they're effectively special forces. Limited in number but required to take on objectives that are massive in scope. And as for the point regarding fair fights, Space Marines never drop into fair fights. That's their whole thing they drop into what is almost certain death for any other army and are victorious anyway.
That all having been said, I get that there will never be an accurate way of depicting how certain armies work in ANY 40k game. You'll never command tens of thousands of Guard, super-human Space Marines, or Mustache-twirling terribad Chaos. The games are made entirely from a standpoint of: How do we include all these awesome bits of the universe without destroying the game?
And I never thought I'd say this, but DoW 2 is probably one of the better representations of what a Space Marine strikeforce might be. Although, I think DoW1 showed what a company-level deployment would be like better than anything else.
And as for the point regarding fair fights, Space Marines never drop into fair fights. That's their whole thing they drop into what is almost certain death for any other army and are victorious anyway.
While your general sentiment is correct, keep in mind that when Space Marines are involved an equal numbers fight it is often neither fair nor equal.
BrookM wrote: Such restrictions may work better with a slightly different game maybe, like a tactics game or the like, akin to X-COM or Jagged Alliance 2.
The original Ground Control would probably work as the best template.
BrookM wrote: Such restrictions may work better with a slightly different game maybe, like a tactics game or the like, akin to X-COM or Jagged Alliance 2.
The original Ground Control would probably work as the best template.
Good call, kinda forgot about that one, as the first one is indeed a great game that could work perfectly with something like that in mind.
I still feel like the best way to have Space Marines in an RTS would be as elite forces for a larger whole. Like you choose Imperial Guard (or just Imperial forces) and then can call in small quantities Space Marine (Sisters of Battle or Adeptus Mechanicus etc) reinforcements. Either using a doctrine system like Company of Heroes or just further up the tech tree (potentially exclusive like the Tau Mont'ka and Kauyon choices in Dawn of War). This would let Space Marines be treated as the high elite and expensive troops they should be rather than needing to be matched against standard enemy squads. I don't really see any balanced way of having Space Marines being as powerful as they are in the fluff otherwise.
In the Soulstorm Titanium Mod you could play as the Adminstratum, starting with Arbites forces and working up to heavier units. Near the end of the tech tree you could call rely on more PDF forces, Space Marine or Inquisitorial reinforcements or turn traitor and gain access to certain Chaos or Tau units. I found that really entertaining too.
This weekend, treat yourself to that Elite you've been eyeing.
Dawn of War III launched three weeks ago, and we all know what the three week anniversary is; SKULLS!!
This weekend, all skulls earned by competing in A.I. skirmishes and multiplayer matches will be doubled, getting you that much closer to the Elites and Doctrines you've had your eye on! Be sure to act quick, the promotion will run from May 19 at 10AM PDT until May 23 at 10AM PDT.
For those who still play, they rolled out a patch today with a lot of tweaks, nerfs and buffs to all units, along with a leaderboard:
New
Leaderboards have been added
Improved
Opponent AI
The Codex now includes all Elite units
Balance update (multiplayer only, balance changes do not apply to the campaign)
GENERAL
Gameplay
Cooldown of all Super Abilities (Orbital Bombardment, Eldritch Storm, and Rokks) increased from 5 minutes to 7.5 minutes
Base Requisition rate increased from 260 per minute to 340 per minute
Base Turret damage reduced from 50 to 12.5 with each player in the game increasing that damage by 12.5 (i.e. 1v1 = 25 damage; 2v2 = 37.5 damage; 3v3 = 50 damage)
Turret primary weapon damage reduced from 40 to 15 with each player in the game increasing that damage by 6.25 (1v1 = 21.25 damage; 2v2 = 27.5 damage; 3v3 = 33.75 damage)
Escalation Phases
Phase 1: Increased refund on unit loss from 25% to 35%
Phase 2: Increased refund on unit loss from 15% to 25%
Phase 4: Decreased resource rate bonus from 50% to 25%
SPACE MARINES
Servitor
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where Servitors could see over some sight blockers
Tactical Marine
Reinforcement cost of Tactical Marine upgrades reduced from 75% of upgrade cost to 25%
Ranged damage increased from 2.85 to 4
Melee damage increased from 4.6 to 5.5
Flamer upgrade reinforcement cost decreased from 71 Requisition / 7 Power to 63 Requisition / 2 Power
Plasma Gun upgrade reinforcement cost changed from 75 Requisition / 9 Power to 65 Requisition / 3 Power
Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug that doubled the reinforcement cost of Tactical Marines when they were Overcharged
Fixed a bug that caused Tactical Marines to gain resources when Overcharged
Fixed a bug that prevented Tactical Marines from being able to melee when Overheated
Fixed a bug that caused Tactical Marine squads with Tireless to get spread out after being reinforced, or to not benefit from the doctrine when deployed from a Drop Pod
Fixed an issue where Tactical Marines could get both Plasma and Flamer upgrades if they were triggered simultaneously
Scout Sniper
Scout Snipers no longer need to wait for a short time before being able to move after having fired their weapons
Doctrines
Hidden: Now gains a 10-second speed boost after firing
Assault Marine
Power Sword upgrade is now available at Tier 2
Power Sword upgrade cost changed from 75 Requisition / 75 Power to 125 Requisition / 125 Power
Jump charge generation time increased from 65 seconds to 90 seconds
Doctrines
Assault Leap: Damage reduced from 75 to 20
Lascannon Devastator
Added a resource bar to display three tiers of beam intensity
Beam intensity will no longer decay when switching targets
Beam intensity will decay slowly when out of combat
Beam intensity will reset when stunned, knocked back, or placed into stasis
Beam intensity 1 damage increased from 1.5 to 1.875
Beam intensity 2 damage increased from 3 to 3.75
Beam intensity 3 damage increased from 5.5 to 6.5
Whirlwind
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where Whirlwinds using the Thunderhawk Redeployment doctrine would move back to their starting points
Predator Destructor
Health increased from 2250 to 2750
Area of effect increased from 3 to 5
Visual effects have been updated to match the new area of effect
Kill Team Ironmaw
Ranged damage increased from 4 to 5
Melee damage increased from 6 to 8
Bug Fixes
Fixed a missing asset spawning when Kill Team Ironmaw was killed during teleport
Jonah Orion
Max number of units hit per squad decreased from unlimited to 5
Gabriel Angelos
Removed knockback from Critical Strike
Critical Strike (passive) damage increased from 80 to 85
Terminators
Added knockback on Teleport arrival
Decreased the speed it takes to fire a full volley of Cyclone Missile Barrage from 8 seconds to 4 seconds
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where the Terminator's Devastation doctrine was not applied to units deployed via Drop Pod
Venerable Dreadnought
Maximal Charge can no longer be intercepted by enemy units in-between the Venerable Dreadnought and its target
Ranged damage increased from 240 to 350
Imperial Knight Solaria
Removed the slow from Gets Hot!
Attack range increased from 40 to 45
Gatling Barrage knockback increased from 8 to 12
Gatling Barrage range increased from 45 to 55
Additional Changes
Increased shields granted by Plant The Standard from 350 to 450
Drop pod damage versus buildings currently under construction from 1750 to 350
Tip of the Spear: Units must be out of combat for 20 seconds before being able to reinforce from a Listening Post
Population
Servitor: Decreased from 2 to 1
Assault Marines: Increased from 10 to 13
Scout Snipers: Decreased from 10 to 9
Heavy Bolter Devastators: Increased from 9 to 11
Lascannon Devastators: Increased from 9 to 10
Landspeeders: Increased from 10 to 13
Dreadnought: Decreased from 18 to 17
Predator Annihilator: Decreased from 18 to 17
Predator Destructor: Decreased from 18 to 17
Whirlwind: Increased from 10 to 12
ELDAR
Bonesinger
Warp now starts on cooldown when the unit is first spawned in
Warp range decreased from 100 to 70
Dire Avenger
Ranged damage reduced from 40 to 30
Shields reduced from 20% to 10%
Howling Banshee
Quick Strike cost changed from 100 Requisition / 60 Power to 75 Requisition / 50 Power
Quick Strike damage reduced from 65 to 30
Doctrines
Hunt: When in stealth, Quick Strike will reveal you in the casting phase
Hunt: Speed bonus no longer stacks with Fleet of Foot
Hunt: Damage bonus reduced from 100% to 25%
Reflective Strike: Instead of being invulnerable, Howling Banshees take half damage
Ranger
Cost changed from 330 Requisition / 15 Power to 330 Requisition / 20 Power
Cost to unlock changed from 100 Requisition to 125 Requisition / 25 Power
Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug where additional firing would not reset their stealth revert timer
Fire Prism
Cost changed from 100 Requisition / 375 Power to 100 Requisition / 325 Power
Ranged damage increased from 275 to 320
Superheated damage type changed from Normal to True
Superheated damage increased from 100 to 150
Superheated activation time reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
Removed knockback from Superheated
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where units could not teleport out of a Fire Prism attack
Striking Scorpions
Hunt damage bonus reduced from 100% to 25%
Speed bonus from Hunt only stacks with Fleet of Foot up to 33%, down from 100%
Hunt tooltip now displays speed and damage bonuses
Critical Strike (passive) damage type changed from True to Normal
Farseer Macha
Psyker Blast damage decreased from 150 to 125
Psyker Blast damage mitigation increased from 50% to 75%
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where Macha's Last Chance doctrine would not affect Elite squad members who spawn through healing
Jain Zar
Silent Death initial damage reduced from 100 to 75
Silent Death return damage increased from 250 to 275
Changed the visual effects when Silent Death is on its return path
Silent Death tooltip now displays the difference in damage when Jain Zar's triskele is returning
Warp Spiders
Slow mines activation time decreased from 7 seconds to 3 seconds
Wraithlord
Wraith Recall tooltip now displays the number of squads that will be teleported during its casting phase
Doctrines
Wraith Recall: Range reduced from global to 100
Wraith Recall: Can now only teleport up to 10 units, instead of an unlimited amount
Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug where the Wraithlord's Ethereal Wall would not always block projectiles
Additional Changes
Edlritch Storm: True damage per tick reduced from 5 to 2.5
Eldritch Storm: Lightning bolt delay decreased from 0.75 to 0.25 in Conduit form
Webway Gates health decreased from 700 to 600
Fixed an issue where destroying a connected Webway while it relocates could prevent any further Webways from being connected
Improved Webways: No longer allows Webway Gates to relocate in Tier 1
Improved Webways: Health regeneration can now only occur after 10 seconds of being out of combat
Improved Webways: Relocation cast time increased from 4 seconds to 10 seconds
Population
Dire Avengers: Increased from 6 to 8
Howling Banshees: Increased from 10 to 11
Dark Reapers: Increased from 8 to 11
Rangers: Increased from 8 to 9
Shadow Spectres: Increased from 9 to 12
Wraithblades: Increased from 12 to 16
Vyper: Increased from 5 to 9
Falcon: Increased from 12 to 17
Fire Prism: Increased from 15 to 19
ORKS
Gretchin
Doctrines
Find the Goods: Places a single mine on top of the Scrap pile that you teleport to
Find the Goods: Now stealths for 15 seconds, or until detected
Boy
Doctrines
Get 'Em Boyz: Decreased Shout speed bonus stacking with WAAAGH! from 100% to 50%
Trukk
Doctrines
Suicide Bomma: Damage reduced from 350 to 200
Suicide Bomma: Damage versus objectives reduced from 350 to 100
Suicide Bomma: Max number of units hit per squad decreased from unlimited to 5
Deffkopta
Increased health from 450 to 550
Killa Kan
Doctrines
Long Range Rokkit: The number of rokkits remains visible on the health bar under more cases
Long Range Rokkits: Rokkits should only travel a certain distance and expire after a duration
Deff Dread
Doctrines
Bigga Scrap Shield: Shields increased from 300 to 500
Bigga Scrap Shield: Duration increased from 5 to 10 seconds
Big Trakk
Cost changed from 100 Requisition / 350 Power to 100 Requisition / 325 Power
Salvage cost changed from 50 Requisition / 175 Power to 50 Requisition / 165 Power
Kill 'Em Far now applies a slow to vehicles, instead of a stun
Stormboyz
Suicide Bomma's damage versus objectives reduced from 350 to 175
Max number of units hit per squad decreased from unlimited to 5
When upgraded with scrap, Suicide Bomma's damage versus objectives reduced by 50%
Doctrines
Kamakazee: Changed hotkey from Q to X
Weirdboy Zappnoggin
Damage type changed from Normal to True
Area of effect damage removed from ranged attack
Scrap Blast shields increased from 200 to 225
Max number of units hit per squad by Scrap Blast decreased from unlimited to 5
Ere We Go no longer does damage
Fist of Gork travel time used to be varied, is now a flat rate of 3.5 seconds
Mad Dread
Health increased from 4250 to 4750
Tunnel cooldown decreased from 45 seconds to 30 seconds
Gorkanaut
Ranged damage increased from 15 to 20
All Da Dakka damage increased from 80 to 100
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where All Da Dakka did no damage to Shield Generators
Fixed an issue with cancelling the Gorkanaut's Rokkit Fist ability
Additional Changes
Fixed an issue where Roks could become unresponsive if picked up and dropped
Population
Boyz: Decreased from 8 to 7
Shoota Boyz: Increased from 8 to 9
Nobz: Decreased from 25 to 16
Deffgun Lootas: Increased from 8 to 9
Tankbustas: Increased from 6 to 10
Trukks: Increased from 8 to 9
Deffkoptas: Increased from 5 to 7
Killa Kans: Increased from 10 to 11
Deff Dreads: Increased from 12 to 15
Big Trakks: Increased from 18 to 19
BUG FIXES
Achievements
Fixed assorted issues with achievements not being awarded when completing the campaign
Audio
Fixed several issues with odd audio bursts when restarting missions or progressing to certain post-mission screens
Fixed incorrect sound effects on Sky Portal death
Fixed missing sound effects on Ork Shoota Boyz
Fixed an issue with the level up sound effects playing on repeat
Fixed an issue where setting Voice volume to zero was not silencing unit barks
Campaign
Fixed an issue where mission progress wasn't properly carried over between PCs Fixed an issue where Assault Marines could bypass a gate in Mission 1
Fixed an issue when respawning Gorgutz in an unplayable space in Mission 2
Fixed an issue with Eldar attackers not assaulting the player's base in Mission 4
Fixed missing animation on a bridge in Mission 4
Fixed missing dialogue at the end of Mission 4
Fixed a rare bug that would block progression when defending your base in Mission 5
Fixed issues with deck gun effects and sound effects when loading a save in Mission 7
Tuned Diomedes' health in Mission 8
Fixed an issue where units joining the player could become hostile in Mission 11
Fixed an issue with Wazmakka's behaviour when attacked from range in Mission 12
Fixed an issue with debrief imagery in Mission 12
Fixed an issue with stacking Webway Gates in Mission 13
Fixed a rare crash when destroying the first Webway Gate in Mission 14
Fixed an issue with missing health bars on some units in Mission 16
Fixed an issue with missing objective indicators in Mission 16
Fixed an issue where Elites would not gain experience at the end of Mission 16
Fixed issues with damage from Mission 17's boss's swipe attacks
Fixed issues with boss behaviour in Mission 17
Save & Load
Fixed an issue where incorrect Elites could appear in some save games
Fixed an issue where Jonah Orion's Stonewall ability would become invisible when loading into a game saved while the ability was active
Multiplayer
Fixed an exploit where follow camera (') could be used to track enemy stealth units and units hidden in the fog of war
Fixed an issue where paused AI games were not actually paused
Units & Abilities
Fixed a broken interaction between Wazmakka's Traktor Beam and Stormboyz' Suicide Bomma
Fixed an animation glitch on the Striking Scorpions
Fixed an issue where players could force units out of a Falcon transport ship over a chasm, instantly killing them
Fixed an issue where Kyre's Eldritch Winds could move Deathstorm Drop Pods
Fixed an overly large hit box on the Doctrine Chapel
User Interface
Fixed stacking debuff icons caused by Gorgutz' melee attacks
Fixed inconsistencies with audio and video options and forced restarts
Adjusted several incorrect ability and upgrade icons
Fixed an issue where some tooltips would be missing text for non-deployed Elites
Fixed incorrect behaviour on several gameplay UI options
Updated the reticule for the Imperial Knight Paladin's Reaper Chainsword Sweep
Art
Fixed additional instances of effects seen through the fog of war
Fixed an issue where Shadow Spectre's beam animation would not pause when the game paused
Fixed missing effects on Kill Team Ironmaw squad member with the missile launcher
Fixed missing effects on the Temporal Mine ability
Fixed missing effects when the Venereable Dreadnought is destroyed
Fixed timing issues on destruction effects for resource add-ons
Fixed an issue where the effects and sound effects for Pin did not end
Fixed an issue with persistent teleport effects when the target building is destroyed
Offline Play
Fixed assorted crashes and soft locks caused by losing internet connection during various screen transitions
Performance
Improved performance on 4K monitors in various option and info screens
Improved performance when using the Roks ability
Anybody see Arch Warhammer's video on the sales of dawn of war 3 yet? It's sort of a 2nd review and the game is basically dead and it only took a month. Rather unfortunate as dawn of war was an otherwise good franchise.
I think Relic is well aware of this, upon uninstalling the game I was taken to a survey set up by them where they asked me what I liked the least, why I uninstalled the game and what I'd like to see changed.
Please don't shoot / threaten / otherwise harm the messenger..
It's been over a month since Dawn of War III launched, and we wanted to give you a quick update of what we've been up to! We're dropping a big update next week with a bunch of cool stuff that fans have been asking for.
Annihilation mode! The classic mode returns in Dawn of War III, playable across all maps. If you're looking for a bread and butter "take down my opponent's base" mode, this one's for you!
New Map: Mortis Vale! Get your feet wet with the new Annihilation mode with a new battleground to play in!
Free Engines of Annihilation skin pack! The House Raven Skin for Imperial Knight Paladin, the Exalted skin for the Wraithknight, and the Deathskulls skin for the Gorkanaut will be granted to you for free, right when you log in, once the update drops!
The Annihilation update will hit on Tuesday, June 20. For more details, please head to DawnOfWar.com to check out our Community Update.
For all updated on Dawn of War, make sure to head to DawnOfWar.com, and follow us on social!
Also from the update, the ability to build turrets:
And those fancy new turrets? You won’t need to hand in your hard-earned Skulls for them. We’ll release them unlocked, for all players, for use across all multiplayer modes. Turtlers rejoice! You’ll have new defensive strategies to play with, and against, in no time. Here’s your first look at one of them in action!
The turret doctrines won’t be available in campaign mode, but it is something we’re going to take a look at. No promises, but we’ll see what’s possible and get back to you.
And this:
We know this is just a start, but it’s an important one. And it helps us say thanks to each and every one of you for playing, posting, and yes – even some of the yelling. It hasn’t fallen on deaf ears.
We’ll start with the Annihilation Update, we’ll keep listening, and together, we’ll keep moving forward.
When having instant access to turrets is a selling point for updating your dead game, you know it's beyond helping
Dawn of War III was meant to reunite our Dawn of War and Dawn of War II fans with a bombastic, action-RTS packed with incredible heroes, giant space lasers, and whole, new planets made of things that go BOOM. While we’ve checked those boxes, it’s clear that those weren’t the only things that you were looking for.
Yeah, we were looking for an actual Dawn of War game, you fething tools.
Eldar missions have an annoyingly high degree of puzzle map syndrome involved, most annoying, especially when paired with instant failure conditions some have.
I did manage to get my brother to give it a go with me in some good old compstomp. He liked it, but like me came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be entertaining for too long, as there's too few maps right now and the AI, no matter what difficulty or setting, will aggressively pursue you.
I do hope to play him at least once on 1 vs 1, though I may scour the workshop for a proper map first.
We'll this game was doomed as soon as they tried to copy dawn of war 2 style. Only reason that game lasted longer then 3 months was due to last stand.
But Dow 2 was more suited to a rpg then anything else. They tried to keep that rpg style in Dow 3 while making armies, and people hate it.
Also the campaign is crap I do not want a story telling mission, I want a Dow soul storm campaign where you choose a path and objectives and so on. With failed rpgDow 2 gameplay bad campaign story telling it was an abortion waiting to happen.
OgreChubbs wrote: We'll this game was doomed as soon as they tried to copy dawn of war 2 style. Only reason that game lasted longer then 3 months was due
... to people liking it. DoW2 was immensely popular and successful.
Melissia wrote: ... to people liking it. DoW2 was immensely popular and successful.
Still is. In fact, according to Steam Charts, DOW2 players match and outnumber those playing DOW3 (if we count the expansions, which I will because frankly it's pathetic that a 8 year old game + expansions matches a brand new game in terms of player count).
OgreChubbs wrote: We'll this game was doomed as soon as they tried to copy dawn of war 2 style. Only reason that game lasted longer then 3 months was due to last stand.
feth the wuuuuuuuuut? If anything, this game is more of a copy of the first game than the second one. Aaaaaaaand the Last Stand was released October 2009, while the core game was released in February 2009, so a wee bit more than those three months.
OgreChubbs wrote: But Dow 2 was more suited to a rpg then anything else. They tried to keep that rpg style in Dow 3 while making armies, and people hate it.
I think you need to do some more research, as there is no "RPG style" in the third game. Unless gaining XP with which you can unlock things like paints for your army, ingame currency and cosmetic changes to the unit fall under role playing games these days. Or are you referring to the many abilities that every unit has these days? Again, not really "RPG style" or the like.
OgreChubbs wrote: Also the campaign is crap I do not want a story telling mission, I want a Dow soul storm campaign where you choose a path and objectives and so on. With failed rpgDow 2 gameplay bad campaign story telling it was an abortion waiting to happen.
So, you want to play skirmish games ad nauseum then? With some special missions sprinkled in for diversity just to keep things fresh?
Personally I do prefer story, why buy the fething game otherwise? If I want skirmish I'll do compstomp and switch off my mind there.
And I'd rather settle for Dark Crusade, which at least works and wasn't shipped broken.
.
I've had to take from them because they've rubbed themselves up into a hype frenzy. At least I have some weight behind my argument other than "this game will be great/terrible"
) Also the move to make a tech tree rather then DoW1's original method of allowing hard counters in every tier, as well as destroying the 
