We have Magnus back bombing around the Imperium, and Roboute doing his thing trying to salvage the Imperium.
It occurs to me that we have a rather interesting option, especially based on the rumors that Blood Angels are about to have some storyline focus once again.
I know, I know, BoLS. Don't click it if you don't want to (I didn't like linking it either), but it essentially points to the possibility of Blood Angels fighting desperately to save the Baal system from a rather massive Tyranid Hive Fleet in the near future.
Most of this I'm sure people are well aware of. Now let me introduce a wrinkle.
Roboute in fact died in Gathering Storm 3 after the stasis field closed/turned off, prompting the eldar to resurrect him with the aid of his new armor. This prompts me to start thinking about other fluff and possibilities that might warrant a second look.
What if, with the possibility of the Blood Angels taking more central stage in the gathering storm narrative, the eldar show up in the Baal system and are able to resurrect a second primarch from beyond the grave. Namely, Sanguinius. The Blood Angels still have his body, and it too is in stasis deep underneath the fortress monastery of the Blood Angels on Baal.
I of course don't expect to see this happen, but there is precedent for it with what occurred in Gathering Storm 3, and the Eldar were last seen parting company with Guilliman for parts unknown.
It would certainly be a curve ball that NOBODY would see coming I expect. Sanguinius would pair nicely with Guilliman I think.
That being said, there are multiple other primarchs more likely to make a return to the stage at this point. The Lion, Leman Russ, Fulgrim, Morarion, Khan, and even Rogal Dorn are possibilities that each hold merit and various degrees of rumor mill support and leaks showing possible models in Mortarion's case.
Still, the possibility is there and worth at least mentioning I think.
Just random thoughts I figured I'd share to see what people think. Take it easy for now folks.
could be and I'd love to see him back. problem is Sanguinis is too good a guy, from a story POV I'd go with Russ or the Lion or something. someone whom would leave Gulliman in charge, but constantly bash heads with him
BrianDavion wrote: could be and I'd love to see him back. problem is Sanguinis is too good a guy, from a story POV I'd go with Russ or the Lion or something. someone whom would leave Gulliman in charge, but constantly bash heads with him
I see Sanguinius as being something of a foil to Guilliman, with another of the loyalist brother primarchs perhaps coming in to provide some angst but not at the risk of causing a rift by countermanding Guilliman whole-sale. Queue the Lion, or Russ (the obvious choice) for this role.
I suspect to see at least three primarchs from both sides of the coin (Loyalist and Chaos) eventually, if not more, and all tentative signs point to Magnus (obviously...), Mortarion, and with the mention of a snake like monster being seen in the Gathering Storm side blurbs in the book, Fulgrim being the three for Chaos. With Guilliman leading the Loyalist side, we can only speculate on what other primarchs will be joining him in the fight. Obvious front runners are the Lion, and Russ, with Khan being another possible option, and Rogal Dorn yet another. With how the story is developing, I wouldn't put it past the writers in this instance. It would certainly be an unexpected twist for sure, and I can't think of a better 'good guy' foil for Guilliman and the Imperium than Sanguinius, or Vulkan of course.
Like I said, it's little more than wishing at this point, but there is some logic to the wishing at least.
That's an interesting hypothesis. Is there an instance where Ynnead brings back someone who died a long time ago? I've only read the summaries of the Gathering Storm books, but from what I've seen it seems to require the death to happen in front of Yvraine.
At least that's what I've taken from it; could be wrong.
Frstwlf wrote: That's an interesting hypothesis. Is there an instance where Ynnead brings back someone who died a long time ago? I've only read the summaries of the Gathering Storm books, but from what I've seen it seems to require the death to happen in front of Yvraine.
At least that's what I've taken from it; could be wrong.
I don't know, it's very possible that is a requirement for Yvraine to have her power over death to come into play. I haven't read everything yet either (Just picked up Gathering Storm 3 here, will be reading through the story soon I hope once I can sit down with the book).
I'd be very curious to see if there's more substance to the possibility or if it's just me taking wishful thinking to an unhealthy level.
Once I get some reading done, I'll add in if her presence when death occurs is a requirement for Yvraine to bring someone back.
I sorta have a hard time seeing that as I consider Sanguinius as one of the top 10 most dead people who aren't coming back of the galaxy. Maybe even top 5. I don't know the lore well enough though.
I have nothing against him or even the Blood Angels getting something cool. It just doesn't right bringing Sanguinius back. This 40K, not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Some people have got to stay dead for death mean anything story wise.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: I sorta have a hard time seeing that as I consider Sanguinius as one of the top 10 most dead people who aren't coming back of the galaxy. Maybe even top 5. I don't know the lore well enough though.
I have nothing against him or even the Blood Angels getting something cool. It just doesn't right bringing Sanguinius back. This 40K, not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Some people have got to stay dead for death mean anything story wise.
you mention marvel and I feel it's worth noting that after being dead for 60 years (real time) marvel brought Bucky back...
Didn't rowboat still have constant pain from his injury, given the need of a life support suit I'd say there's a limit to the powers and while it was enough to spark him back to life it wasn't enough to get him fully going. Sanguinius may be too far gone.
Gamgee wrote: People are truly naive if they don't think every last primarch will eventually return when they print buckets of money.
It's that point the game should be well and truly dead needing to cash in on such a thing but people will still buy it anyway.
eh you say that but on the other hand GW's just giving the market what it wants. which is why they've added some of the stuff they've added of late, ad mech, GSCs, death watch, Primarchs these are all things the player base wants.
Gamgee wrote: People are truly naive if they don't think every last primarch will eventually return when they print buckets of money.
It's that point the game should be well and truly dead needing to cash in on such a thing but people will still buy it anyway.
eh you say that but on the other hand GW's just giving the market what it wants. which is why they've added some of the stuff they've added of late, ad mech, GSCs, death watch, Primarchs these are all things the player base wants.
Doubtfull players really want such a fluff rape that horus back would require. He wasn't just killed but oblitared body and soul so that even chaos couldn't bring him back.
God I hope not, bringing back people like Guilliman (basically dead) and Sanguinius (VERY dead) just seems like a blatent middle finger to all the 40k players who's primarchs are still alive.
Gamgee wrote: People are truly naive if they don't think every last primarch will eventually return when they print buckets of money.
It's that point the game should be well and truly dead needing to cash in on such a thing but people will still buy it anyway.
eh you say that but on the other hand GW's just giving the market what it wants. which is why they've added some of the stuff they've added of late, ad mech, GSCs, death watch, Primarchs these are all things the player base wants.
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong, can you tell me which thing is not like the other by the time I finish my song?
Ad Mech
gsc death watch
harlequins
primarchs
Did you guess which thing was not like the others? Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong? If you guessed this one is not like the others, then you're absolutely right.
Primarchs
Specifically the loyalist primarchs, how they don't belong is those other things that had been added were existing forces within the game that for some reason didn't have their own rules. As for the primarch situation you have the big 4 mostly, then the loyalists at best have/had the lion, russ and perhaps vulkan. In all fairness though if they did bring the big 4 into the game then it would only be fair to consider bringing the loyalists ones in too, however it's still a slippery slope; one with rockets likely strapped to it's ass to help it speed along to the glorylands of power creep. Primarchs fit more into 30k than they do to 40k.
mrhappyface wrote: God I hope not, bringing back people like Guilliman (basically dead) and Sanguinius (VERY dead) just seems like a blatent middle finger to all the 40k players who's primarchs are still alive.
I know, it would be much easier for the Khan to come roaring into realspace on a bitchin' motorcycle adorned in skulls or for the Salamanders to find relics to bring Vulkan back. It would be easier for Corax or Dorn to come back than for the Imperium to cut a deal with Eldar (who are likely doing this for their own reasons) to bring Guilliman back, imo.
Who knows what's to come, but it does warrant some thought regarding the possibility, all-be-it unlikely.
I fully expect to see a fair portion of the Primarchs return in the game at some point or another over the ensuing years.
We have Magnus, and now Guilliman.
Strong rumors point to Mortarion, and the Lion being 'on deck' for upcoming releases. With mentions of Fulgrim as well.
After that you've got numerous 'missing' or otherwise mostly accounted for but unseen Primarchs scattered around Realspace, the warp and the webway.
I can see it happening, and as I said it would be a complete curve ball, a moment that causes folks to pause in surprise, much like the initial reaction to the Magnus reveal was for me, personally.
We shall see, as we're all riding this wave together.
mrhappyface wrote: God I hope not, bringing back people like Guilliman (basically dead) and Sanguinius (VERY dead) just seems like a blatent middle finger to all the 40k players who's primarchs are still alive.
^This. They're still several primarchs that could be very much alive. As much as we all love Sanguinius he is about as dead as anyone in the 40k setting gets. If they bring him back...well why not just bring back the Emperor himself?
Red__Thirst wrote: Strong rumors point to Mortarion, and the Lion being 'on deck' for upcoming releases. With mentions of Fulgrim as well.
Next ones out are Mortarion, Angron and Russ.
After that who knows. That will likely take us well into 2018 as it is so any further primarches would be still far off.
I heard Mortarian, FULGRIM and Russ. I tend to be more inclined to belive that as Fulgrim, Mortarian and Magnus where the only primarchs mentioned by name in GS3which suggests toi me they're next
Personally I feel like bringing back any primarchs is a giant middle finger to all those that died.
As for Sanguinius, one of the theories for the Sanguinor is that he's Sanguinius's spirit. So perhaps they find a way to mate his spirit to his body if they want to bring him back.
Red__Thirst wrote: Strong rumors point to Mortarion, and the Lion being 'on deck' for upcoming releases. With mentions of Fulgrim as well.
Next ones out are Mortarion, Angron and Russ.
After that who knows. That will likely take us well into 2018 as it is so any further primarches would be still far off.
I heard Mortarian, FULGRIM and Russ. I tend to be more inclined to belive that as Fulgrim, Mortarian and Magnus where the only primarchs mentioned by name in GS3which suggests toi me they're next
Hastings says Mortarion, Angron and Russ and Hastings is generally pretty damn spot on. Where you heard Fulgrim? What's his/her track record?
I wouldn't like to see Sanguinius return. It would ruin the drama of the closing moments of the Heresy and cheapen the background. Guilliman isn't bad because the door was left open for him returning
Red__Thirst wrote: Strong rumors point to Mortarion, and the Lion being 'on deck' for upcoming releases. With mentions of Fulgrim as well.
Next ones out are Mortarion, Angron and Russ.
After that who knows. That will likely take us well into 2018 as it is so any further primarches would be still far off.
I heard Mortarian, FULGRIM and Russ. I tend to be more inclined to belive that as Fulgrim, Mortarian and Magnus where the only primarchs mentioned by name in GS3which suggests toi me they're next
Hastings says Mortarion, Angron and Russ and Hastings is generally pretty damn spot on. Where you heard Fulgrim? What's his/her track record?
In the Gathering Storm series there's a small paragraph about a giant serpentine creature laying waste to pretty much everything. People tend to feel this is Fulgrim. Fulgrim was also mentioned by name in GS3. This is where a lot of people seem to get Fulgrim being one of the next ones with Mortarion who was also mentioned in GS3 combined with the leaked pics.
On another note, I can completely see them bringing Sanguinius back. He may be very dead but I don't think it will stop Yvraine if that's what GW wants to do, that added with the approaching Tyranid threat and the fact that the BA are pretty much on their own seems to be some pretty blatant forshadowing that a miracle of some kind will take place to get them out of this. Also see theories about the Sanguinor possibly being the primarchs spirit and the visions Dante has about fighting during the end of days or whatever with a golden figure. IIRC that's kinda whats kept Dante going for about 1000 years, that vision. I also wouldn't be surprised if the next 2 loyalist where Sanguinius and The Lion. Kind of a like a shout out to Imperium Secundus during the Heresy and it has a kind of continuity to it. I'm also a little biased as I play both factions...so....add salt haha. That's just my theories on it.
I also think that if they leave a primarch dead on each side it would be Horus and Ferrus. I'm not sure Ferrus has a body to bring back per se, and even if they have the body they'd need his head (attached? dunno?). That doesn't account for the rumors though. I can easily see them bringing back all of them with a clone for Ferrus. Maybe all these leaks about Abbadon dying are right...i can see some warp tomfoolery where he some how turns into Horus or even ascends some how to take Horus' place. At the end of the day GW does want to make money and people playing Iron Hands and Black Legion will probably feel a little slighted if they're the only ones without a primarch in the end. Maybe especially the Black Legion players as Abbadon has been a pretty big joke table top wise for so long.
If Horus comes back, I'm quitting 40k altogether. He was obliterated, body and soul, by Big E. I doubt the Chaos gods have any say in bringing him back from the dead.
I think of all the primarchs Horus is the only one wear GW doesn't even have a hair to stand on, let alone a leg. He got annilated body and soul.
Ferrus would need a few contortions to do.
Maybe Abbadon just ascends to daemon-primarch levels in reward for all of his success?
Perhaps as a reward for taking the fight to Terra and killing The Emperor? Or maybe nearly killing the The Emperor is revived?
I'd hate anything involving a proper end game, but I hate the way the fluff is being catapulted anyways.
Oh I think Horus coming back would be the dumpest thing ever. Doesn't mean GW won't try to make it make sense. I'd be ok with Abbadon turning into a Demon Prince. Poor guy has been working his ass off for 10k years, he could do with a pat on the back.
kirotheavenger wrote: I think of all the primarchs Horus is the only one wear GW doesn't even have a hair to stand on, let alone a leg. He got annilated body and soul.
Ferrus would need a few contortions to do.
Maybe Abbadon just ascends to daemon-primarch levels in reward for all of his success?
Perhaps as a reward for taking the fight to Terra and killing The Emperor? Or maybe nearly killing the The Emperor is revived?
I'd hate anything involving a proper end game, but I hate the way the fluff is being catapulted anyways.
Fulgrim has spent a lot of time cloning and murdering Ferrus. Perhaps that's where Russ has been all this time in the Eye of Terror, looking for Fulgrim's planet so he can rescue the latest Ferrus clone.
(Sanguinius is also pretty dead, but I'm half expecting the Blood Angels' psychic flaw to be a chunk of Sanguinius' psyche re-assembling itself. Mephiston is S/T5 because ghost-Sanguinius is in the process of preparing his chosen vessel for his resurrection.)
ILegion wrote: Oh I think Horus coming back would be the dumpest thing ever. Doesn't mean GW won't try to make it make sense. I'd be ok with Abbadon turning into a Demon Prince. Poor guy has been working his ass off for 10k years, he could do with a pat on the back.
Nah. Abby has enough as it is with the Talon of Horus and Drach'nyen. It'd be way too cliche if he ascended now.
ILegion wrote: Oh I think Horus coming back would be the dumpest thing ever. Doesn't mean GW won't try to make it make sense. I'd be ok with Abbadon turning into a Demon Prince. Poor guy has been working his ass off for 10k years, he could do with a pat on the back.
Nah. Abby has enough as it is with the Talon of Horus and Drach'nyen. It'd be way too cliche if he ascended now.
kirotheavenger wrote: I think of all the primarchs Horus is the only one wear GW doesn't even have a hair to stand on, let alone a leg. He got annilated body and soul.
Ferrus would need a few contortions to do.
Maybe Abbadon just ascends to daemon-primarch levels in reward for all of his success?
Perhaps as a reward for taking the fight to Terra and killing The Emperor? Or maybe nearly killing the The Emperor is revived?
I'd hate anything involving a proper end game, but I hate the way the fluff is being catapulted anyways.
Fulgrim has spent a lot of time cloning and murdering Ferrus. Perhaps that's where Russ has been all this time in the Eye of Terror, looking for Fulgrim's planet so he can rescue the latest Ferrus clone.
Where is this from?
I've seen it referenced now and then, but don't know where it comes from!
As for Primarch, there are some that cannot come back, IMO:
Horus
Alpharius (BUT, Omegon can fill in!)
Night Haunter
Ferrus (But...apparently that's not true anymore?)
Sanguinius
But with the whole Eldar Resurrection Power and Clone 'Em If You've Got 'Em...
...maybe anyone can come back now?
Plus, the Alpha Legion do have the Primarch Super Marine recipe somewhere too...
AnomanderRake wrote: (Sanguinius is also pretty dead, but I'm half expecting the Blood Angels' psychic flaw to be a chunk of Sanguinius' psyche re-assembling itself. Mephiston is S/T5 because ghost-Sanguinius is in the process of preparing his chosen vessel for his resurrection.)
Follow-on question: If Sanguinius came back, would that affect the Black Rage?
Tactical_Spam wrote: Making Abby a daemon prince would only continue the trend that he's a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
Also, Alpharius and Omegon are heckin dead. Dorn McCut Alphabro's face in half and Reboot Goatman killed Omebro.
Actually, he didn't.
Back when there was 'only' Alpharius, it was pretty clear that the event in question never actually happened.
Now that there's Alpharius and Omegon, we're pretty sure that it still isn't going to happen, especially with O being strongly rumored to have helped out with founding the Grey Knights too...
Tactical_Spam wrote: Also, Alpharius and Omegon are heckin dead. Dorn McCut Alphabro's face in half and Reboot Goatman killed Omebro.
What makes you think Alpharius didn't disguise himself as Dorn and kill Dorn who was disguised as Alpharius? Alpharius may be infiltrating the Imperial Fists base as we speak; disguised as large glove! And what makes you think Guilliman didn't kill Alpharius posing as Omegon who himself was posing as Alpharius disguised as Dorn's glove? In fact if you look carefully, whilst Guilliman and Omegon/Alpharius/Glove are fighting, there is a flash where everyone changes possitions and suddenly the entire Ultramarine legion has been replaced by Gloves! It is my firm belief that Dorn, through his Glove has been posing as Alpharius who is in fact Guilliman, has been orchastrating all events of the imperium for the last 10k years whilst Omegon switched places with Alpharius, infiltrating the Imperial Fists, so that he could change the course of history by becoming a mod on forum in an alternate reality where 40k isn't real but is instead made up by a group of lads in Nottingham and played by bitter sarcastic gamers throughout the world.
Tactical_Spam wrote: Also, Alpharius and Omegon are heckin dead. Dorn McCut Alphabro's face in half and Reboot Goatman killed Omebro.
What makes you think Alpharius didn't disguise himself as Dorn and kill Dorn who was disguised as Alpharius? Alpharius may be infiltrating the Imperial Fists base as we speak; disguised as large glove! And what makes you think Guilliman didn't kill Alpharius posing as Omegon who himself was posing as Alpharius disguised as Dorn's glove? In fact if you look carefully, whilst Guilliman and Omegon/Alpharius/Glove are fighting, there is a flash where everyone changes possitions and suddenly the entire Ultramarine legion has been replaced by Gloves! It is my firm belief that Dorn, through his Glove has been posing as Alpharius who is in fact Guilliman, has been orchastrating all events of the imperium for the last 10k years whilst Omegon switched places with Alpharius, infiltrating the Imperial Fists, so that he could change the course of history by becoming a mod on forum in an alternate reality where 40k isn't real but is instead made up by a group of lads in Nottingham and played by bitter sarcastic gamers throughout the world.
TL;DR - I am Glove, watchya gonna do Loyalist!?
I have the feeling that if I could comprehend this I would declare this to be brilliant.
Frstwlf wrote: That's an interesting hypothesis. Is there an instance where Ynnead brings back someone who died a long time ago? I've only read the summaries of the Gathering Storm books, but from what I've seen it seems to require the death to happen in front of Yvraine.
At least that's what I've taken from it; could be wrong.
Just remembered that Yvraine brings back a rubric marine. Pretty sure it was GS2 while they were running through the webway. May have been GS3. Either way I think she could probably bring back about anyone if she can turn dust into a breathing person again.
Sanguinius is the only primarch I'd actually care about if he returns. I don't see it happening. But it would pique my interest. To me, his personality is the best one to contrast against the darkness of the 41st millennium-- a shining hero of the people struggling against the darkness, doomed to fail and die in a glorious battle. But he must still fight on knowing that will happen anyway.
It seems the Imperium will need all the heros it can muster, whether that means the eldar keep aiding that process or not is anyone's guess.
Once we get past the admittedly awesome necromunda reboot in April I hope to see more on this next Blood Angels story Arc set in the Gathering Storm series. I am also excited to see if it provides some much needed updates to Tyranids, alongside Blood Angels.
A Blood Angels Triumverate with Sanguinius, flanked by re-sculpted plastic Dante and Mephiston would be so fething awesome I would literally leave flaming tire tracks as I drove to my FLGS to go pick the box up on the day of release.
If Space Jesus himself has to come back in any iteration, I'd rather see that the Sanguinor is actually the spiritual/psychic/plot-device manifestation of Sanguinius than anything. Im firmly on the "Sanguinius is super dead" train.
Everyone else looks to have a secret trap door back in...
everyone seems a bit much given that the only Primarch to return so far was Gulliman and he was basicly put into stasis on the chance he could be healed so..
everyone seems a bit much given that the only Primarch to return so far was Gulliman and he was basicly put into stasis on the chance he could be healed so..
That's true.. Gulliman didn't actually die until they did the ritual
Everyone else looks to have a secret trap door back in...
Manus ain't coming back without a noggin and I don't think anyone has his head or his body.
You missed this bit:
AnomanderRake wrote:
kirotheavenger wrote: I think of all the primarchs Horus is the only one wear GW doesn't even have a hair to stand on, let alone a leg. He got annilated body and soul.
Ferrus would need a few contortions to do.
Maybe Abbadon just ascends to daemon-primarch levels in reward for all of his success?
Perhaps as a reward for taking the fight to Terra and killing The Emperor? Or maybe nearly killing the The Emperor is revived?
I'd hate anything involving a proper end game, but I hate the way the fluff is being catapulted anyways.
Fulgrim has spent a lot of time cloning and murdering Ferrus. Perhaps that's where Russ has been all this time in the Eye of Terror, looking for Fulgrim's planet so he can rescue the latest Ferrus clone.
(Sanguinius is also pretty dead, but I'm half expecting the Blood Angels' psychic flaw to be a chunk of Sanguinius' psyche re-assembling itself. Mephiston is S/T5 because ghost-Sanguinius is in the process of preparing his chosen vessel for his resurrection.)
Apparently, Fulgrim is continually cloning Ferrus, trying to convince him to sign up to be a Baddie, failing, killing him, then rinsing and repeating.
So...basically, what I'm saying is that...there's a chance!
Red__Thirst wrote: A Blood Angels Triumverate with Sanguinius, flanked by re-sculpted plastic Dante and Mephiston would be so fething awesome I would literally leave flaming tire tracks as I drove to my FLGS to go pick the box up on the day of release.
Been a long time reader/non poster on this forum but had to sign up just to 110% agree with this.
Living in Aus, I get all my models from infinitely cheaper overseas sellers, but I would glady spend the full rrp here for that set on release day!
Souljet wrote: Been a long time reader/non poster on this forum but had to sign up just to 110% agree with this.
Living in Aus, I get all my models from infinitely cheaper overseas sellers, but I would glady spend the full rrp here for that set on release day!
Glad to have you here, Souljet. Welcome to Dakka!
I think most everyone would jump at the chance to have another plastic Primarch to paint up, be it Sanguinius, or Russ, or the Lion.
Of course, I selfishly want it to be Sanguinius, being a LONG time (14+ years) Blood Angels player, and looking at some of the current standard models GW is producng in plastic (Specifically Magnus, and Guilliman) a plastic Sanguinius done to that standard would no nothing short of show stopping.
It's unlikely, but a man can dream. A man can dream.
I think most everyone would jump at the chance to have another plastic Primarch to paint up, be it Sanguinius, or Russ, or the Lion.
Of course, I selfishly want it to be Sanguinius, being a LONG time (14+ years) Blood Angels player, and looking at some of the current standard models GW is producng in plastic (Specifically Magnus, and Guilliman) a plastic Sanguinius done to that standard would no nothing short of show stopping.
It's unlikely, but a man can dream. A man can dream.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Thanks mate
I will definitely be getting the forgeworld version so I could live with that if GW have no plans to resurrect him.
Dante and Mephiston, on the other hand, are so desperate for a re-sculpt. It baffles me they didn't get done in the last codex.
Plot twist. Let the Tyranids take Baal and consume it, including all the Biomass of the long dead brothers who suffered the black rage and also Sangy's DNA/biomass.
I'm mostly against bringing back Sanguinius, but I might be okay with it if the story was interesting and clever.
One thing that concerns me is if they do focus on the Blood Angels in an upcoming book. It might not be to the BA's benefit. If GW really wanted to shake up the setting, killing off a prominent chapter and it's successors would fit the bill. The best way to do it would be to put them all in the path of a Hive fleet.
So far 2017 has been a bad year for me and I don't trust it not to get worse.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Plot twist. Let the Tyranids take Baal and consume it, including all the Biomass of the long dead brothers who suffered the black rage and also Sangy's DNA/biomass.
Tyranids with Primarch DNA....
Instead of rippers you have RIPPED Tyranids. Who defeat the enemies of the Hive Mind by suplexing them in between taking their supplements and making massive GAINZ.
Crimson Devil wrote: I'm mostly against bringing back Sanguinius, but I might be okay with it if the story was interesting and clever.
One thing that concerns me is if they do focus on the Blood Angels in an upcoming book. It might not be to the BA's benefit. If GW really wanted to shake up the setting, killing off a prominent chapter and it's successors would fit the bill. The best way to do it would be to put them all in the path of a Hive fleet.
So far 2017 has been a bad year for me and I don't trust it not to get worse.
Aye, I'm a Flesh Tearer player and I'm concerned about how well 400 of the original angry marines would shape up against a hive fleet.
Crimson Devil wrote: I'm mostly against bringing back Sanguinius, but I might be okay with it if the story was interesting and clever.
One thing that concerns me is if they do focus on the Blood Angels in an upcoming book. It might not be to the BA's benefit. If GW really wanted to shake up the setting, killing off a prominent chapter and it's successors would fit the bill. The best way to do it would be to put them all in the path of a Hive fleet.
So far 2017 has been a bad year for me and I don't trust it not to get worse.
I think they know that adding more stuff for people to buy is a better marketing tool than invalidating people's entire armies, though.
And on that, what's the deal with Biel-Tan exactly?
Fulgrim has spent a lot of time cloning and murdering Ferrus. Perhaps that's where Russ has been all this time in the Eye of Terror, looking for Fulgrim's planet so he can rescue the latest Ferrus clone.
You wondered where it came from, might have been one of those xmas things they do. They play regicide, Fully keeps killing them because they dont have his spirit, Looking around at all the Ferrus corpses, he starts blaming Fabulous.
Melissia wrote: Sanguinius is the only primarch I'd actually care about if he returns. I don't see it happening. But it would pique my interest. To me, his personality is the best one to contrast against the darkness of the 41st millennium-- a shining hero of the people struggling against the darkness, doomed to fail and die in a glorious battle. But he must still fight on knowing that will happen anyway.
Well that and hes a blood thisty mf, when no ones looking. This guys is what having long flowing Fabio hair can do.
So the Ferrus cloning thing is from the short story Imperfect and it appears in Death and Defiance and also in War without end
I guess it could make kinda sense for Sanguinius to come back to life if the Lion is going to as well as you then have the trio who ruled Imperium Secundus. Maybe the 500 worlds are a lost cause and they decide to move to worlds around Terra and have Sanguinius as a proxy Emperor.
Bringing back dead primarchs would be heresy of the highest order.
The more likely scenario would be to bring them back in a non-literal way. For example:
- Instead of Sanguinus, we might see the incarnation of the Black Rage. It's not like the Eldar don't have avatars, great spirits can be manifested and what not. It's not like we don't already have Eldar assisting with the resurrection of Primarchs.
- Instead of Ferrus Magnus, they might bring in some manifestation of the machine god (which is supposed to be a C'Tan buried in a volcano on Mars.) It's part of the fluff and would create a welcome opportunity for Space Marines to get another OP D weapon wielding superheavy LOW.
- Instead of Horus, we already have Abbadon. Perhaps he finally ascends to Daemonhood only to come out looking more like Horus. Gets stats equal to those of a Primarch, only costing twice as many points, no eternal warrior, and with ear and soul blaze.
- Alpharius / Omegeon would be hard to explain if they were anything but Alpha Legion. You know they are not dead. It will probably turn out that they have both been around for a long time and plan to come back once something else is revealed. All part of a master plan.
Pilau Rice wrote: So the Ferrus cloning thing is from the short story Imperfect and it appears in Death and Defiance and also in War without end
I guess it could make kinda sense for Sanguinius to come back to life if the Lion is going to as well as you then have the trio who ruled Imperium Secundus. Maybe the 500 worlds are a lost cause and they decide to move to worlds around Terra and have Sanguinius as a proxy Emperor.
Except Lion wasn't killed. Sanguinius was. "Slight" difference.
Not to mention Lion isn't waking up in close timeframe anyway if ever.
techsoldaten wrote: Bringing back dead primarchs would be heresy of the highest order.
The more likely scenario would be to bring them back in a non-literal way. For example:
- Instead of Sanguinus, we might see the incarnation of the Black Rage. It's not like the Eldar don't have avatars, great spirits can be manifested and what not. It's not like we don't already have Eldar assisting with the resurrection of Primarchs.
- Instead of Ferrus Magnus, they might bring in some manifestation of the machine god (which is supposed to be a C'Tan buried in a volcano on Mars.) It's part of the fluff and would create a welcome opportunity for Space Marines to get another OP D weapon wielding superheavy LOW.
- Instead of Horus, we already have Abbadon. Perhaps he finally ascends to Daemonhood only to come out looking more like Horus. Gets stats equal to those of a Primarch, only costing twice as many points, no eternal warrior, and with ear and soul blaze.
- Alpharius / Omegeon would be hard to explain if they were anything but Alpha Legion. You know they are not dead. It will probably turn out that they have both been around for a long time and plan to come back once something else is revealed. All part of a master plan.
Abaddon explicitly refuses to ascend to daemonhood or accept any Daemonic gifts because he actually hates the Chaos Gods and plans to betray them so he can crown himself emperor. Accepting power from the Chaos Gods would make him dependent on them, and Ezekyle doesn't want to be dependent on or subservient to anyone.
Do we know what happened to 'little Horus' Aximand?
I don't think primarch avatars would end well. An incarnation of the red thirst already exists, The Red Angel (used to be Meros, not Angron). He naturally became a Khorne follower and I believe took part on some assaults against BA strongholds during the heresy, not sure how he/it ended up though.
And Ferrus being a god-machine is just no, he's a primarch not a god of the Mechanicum.
Maybe the Sanguinor will just get buffed to primarch levels and the ''he's Sanguinius' spirit'' theory gets heavily leant on? Or even flat out stated, they seem to be filling in some of the blank pages of the fluff, for better or for worse.
Pilau Rice wrote: So the Ferrus cloning thing is from the short story Imperfect and it appears in Death and Defiance and also in War without end
I guess it could make kinda sense for Sanguinius to come back to life if the Lion is going to as well as you then have the trio who ruled Imperium Secundus. Maybe the 500 worlds are a lost cause and they decide to move to worlds around Terra and have Sanguinius as a proxy Emperor.
Except Lion wasn't killed. Sanguinius was. "Slight" difference.
I know that, where did I say that he wasn't killed. The OP was saying about Sanguinius coming back to life and I was going with that. Rumours have said that the Lion might be coming back, whether they are true or not I don't know. I was just rolling off an idea and trying to give the OPs possible bit of extra credence and a reason why they maybe would bring back Sanguinius from the dead if the Lion were to as well. The Lion might not be Dead, but he's not exactly up and playing poker is he.
tneva82 wrote: Not to mention Lion isn't waking up in close timeframe anyway if ever.
I'm pretty sure GW has ways to resurrect every single Primarch and even reveal the two missing Primarchs if they believe it will make them more Pounds sterling.
Sanguinius returning would be bad fluff . he sacrificed himself for the emperor and unlike the other primarchs who were mostly questionably dead (Manus also being among their number beheaded is hard to come back from) the only one more unlikely than those 2 is Horus who mind body and soul is just plain gone, capital D dead and gone. It would also sort of cheapen that sacrifice to... oops no he back...
that said it is said the sanguinary may be him and the elder have been using soul stones for longer than Humanity has existed so maybe mechanically Blood andels fight alongside the elder, the new elder death gods see the sanguinary in a desperate moment, trap the soul and force it back into the body like a sort of human wraith construct (essentially how I see guilliman working as he does)
G00fySmiley wrote: Sanguinius returning would be bad fluff . he sacrificed himself for the emperor and unlike the other primarchs who were mostly questionably dead (Manus also being among their number beheaded is hard to come back from) the only one more unlikely than those 2 is Horus who mind body and soul is just plain gone, capital D dead and gone. It would also sort of cheapen that sacrifice to... oops no he back...
that said it is said the sanguinary may be him and the elder have been using soul stones for longer than Humanity has existed so maybe mechanically Blood andels fight alongside the elder, the new elder death gods see the sanguinary in a desperate moment, trap the soul and force it back into the body like a sort of human wraith construct (essentially how I see guilliman working as he does)
I'll make one minor quibble correction on this.
Sanguinius didn't sacrifice himself for the Emperor. That may have been an underlying reason, the mission being to stop Horus and being willing to sacrifice himself for that end and stop the heresy. There's more to it than that, though.
He tried to save Horus, despite knowing what was most assuredly going to happen if he tried. Sanguinius, and the others that went on the mission, teleported to Horus's battle barge to try and stop him, to end the Heresy once and for all. However, Sanguinius's motives were more personal. He viewed Horus as not only his brother primarch, but as his true blood brother and closest friend. He, even foreseeing the likelihood of his likely failure in this errand and his own death, he still went to try and get through to Horus. He did this because he could see there was a small, nearly impossible, chance to save Horus and to bring him back from damnation or, failing that, kill him. Of course the mission was to kill Horus, but Sanguinius still had to try to save his brother no matter the odds.
That's why the Black Rage came to be. Horus's final act of betrayal to Sanguinus, the pain and rage at Horus abandoning their brotherhood, a brotherhood that Sanguinius was willing to die for, coupled with the pain of their titanic battle and his own death at Horus's hands. The last thought that crossed through Sanguinius's mind was despair, hurt, and seething anger. Anger that he had been betrayed and anger that he had failed to save his brother. That emotion, the anger and pain, seared into his very genetic code, cursing his progeny for 10,000 years. Had the surviving Angels only known not to use Sanginius's fallen form to rebuild the Blood Angels forces from decimation after the heresy ended, there would have never been a Black Rage to contend with. Still, had they not, the Blood Angels would have disappeared into nothing at the end of the heresy, having been well and truly devastated by the conflict, with almost the entire legion left shattered after the dust settled.
This is why Sanginius is, and will always be, my favorite primarch. He was willing to face almost certain death on what had to be a less than one percent chance to save his brother.
Crimson Devil wrote: I'm mostly against bringing back Sanguinius, but I might be okay with it if the story was interesting and clever.
One thing that concerns me is if they do focus on the Blood Angels in an upcoming book. It might not be to the BA's benefit. If GW really wanted to shake up the setting, killing off a prominent chapter and it's successors would fit the bill. The best way to do it would be to put them all in the path of a Hive fleet.
So far 2017 has been a bad year for me and I don't trust it not to get worse.
I think they know that adding more stuff for people to buy is a better marketing tool than invalidating people's entire armies, though.
And on that, what's the deal with Biel-Tan exactly?
Biel Tan still exists, their craft world was effectivly disabled, and is in nasty shape but they'll be able to get it back online, but it will take "Decades if not centuries"
On that note... How many space Wolves are left? they took a real licking at Fenris, and a sizeable chunk of the survivors go to Cadia? the Space Wolves must be in horriable shape right now
G00fySmiley wrote: Sanguinius returning would be bad fluff . he sacrificed himself for the emperor and unlike the other primarchs who were mostly questionably dead (Manus also being among their number beheaded is hard to come back from) the only one more unlikely than those 2 is Horus who mind body and soul is just plain gone, capital D dead and gone. It would also sort of cheapen that sacrifice to... oops no he back...
that said it is said the sanguinary may be him and the elder have been using soul stones for longer than Humanity has existed so maybe mechanically Blood andels fight alongside the elder, the new elder death gods see the sanguinary in a desperate moment, trap the soul and force it back into the body like a sort of human wraith construct (essentially how I see guilliman working as he does)
I don't think it cheapens it all that much. I mean being brutally murdered, and I mean so brutal that it makes your progeny go insane 10,000 years later, plus being dead for 10,000 years is still a pretty big sacrifice. Just my personal opinion though so take with some salt.
I always thought that the Black Rage would have settled even if they didn't use Sanguinius' genes.
We know Sanguinius had a certain psychic link to his sons, and I thought the Black Rage just travelled back down that, and imprinted it that way.
On Signis Prime Sanguinius was brought low by the sudden deaths of his sons, I can see his sons being brought low by the sudden death of their father in the same way.
Pilau Rice wrote: I know that, where did I say that he wasn't killed. The OP was saying about Sanguinius coming back to life and I was going with that. Rumours have said that the Lion might be coming back, whether they are true or not I don't know. I was just rolling off an idea and trying to give the OPs possible bit of extra credence and a reason why they maybe would bring back Sanguinius from the dead if the Lion were to as well. The Lion might not be Dead, but he's not exactly up and playing poker is he.
But Lion coming back doesn't make Sanquinius's return make sense. Lion didn't die. He can come back. Sanquinius died. Takes much more handwaving to have him back.
Just because it can make sense for Lion to come back doesn't make Sanquinius return make sense.
Guilliman wasn't either. See what happened there.
Yes but still. We have no reliable rumours of Lion coming back. Therefore at most he's still way off. Next ones are Mortarion, Angron and Russ. After that who knows. Those 3 will already take time to release. Don't expect Lion in the rush.
As for the Alpharius/Omegon situation making either or both still alive because the 'Alpharius' killed by Dorn and the 'Omegon' killed by Guilliman were impostors is the easiest retcon in the world.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zustiur wrote: However many primarchs come back, my bet is that the lion will be last. Because dark angels players can't have nice things.
They can, they just get them in 30k. (No, seriously, go read Ravenwing Protocol and be prepared to say "What the f***?" quite loudly. Half-price Rad Grenades (that was supposed to be my shtick over in Death Guard), Sky Hunters and Outriders in Troops, the power to teleport great distances (move off the table into Ongoing Reserves and re-enter via Outflank on the next turn)...)
But Lion coming back doesn't make Sanquinius's return make sense. Lion didn't die. He can come back. Sanquinius died. Takes much more handwaving to have him back.
Just because it can make sense for Lion to come back doesn't make Sanquinius return make sense.
For the purpose of this thread I was going with what the OP had suggested whether it makes sense or not. If you don't like the idea of it fair enough. I'm not too crazy on the idea myself but if it could happen then maybe that would be a reason why he could, along with what other reasons they possibly could come up with.
Sanguinius, after GWs current releases, would probably look amazing on the tabletop.
Late to the party but I'm chuck a dollar on Fulgrim coming back due to the line in GS3. Plus, I'm going to throw it out there than Fulgrim, Daemon Prince of the god of perfection with a boner for getting things perfect, was the one who killed Guilliman. I don't think he'd like the Eldar, the space elves who create said God that Fulgrim serves, bringing him back from the dead.
I could totally see Fulgrim returning to wreak full on crazy ex-wife levels of rage on the Imperium in a bid to put Guilliman down once and for all. After all, Fulgrim would loves killing his brothers (Guilliman and Manus) and the chance to kill one a second time would be too juicy to pass up. Cue Fulgrim vs Guilliman Grudge Match
Deadshot wrote: Late to the party but I'm chuck a dollar on Fulgrim coming back due to the line in GS3. Plus, I'm going to throw it out there than Fulgrim, Daemon Prince of the god of perfection with a boner for getting things perfect, was the one who killed Guilliman. I don't think he'd like the Eldar, the space elves who create said God that Fulgrim serves, bringing him back from the dead.
I could totally see Fulgrim returning to wreak full on crazy ex-wife levels of rage on the Imperium in a bid to put Guilliman down once and for all. After all, Fulgrim would loves killing his brothers (Guilliman and Manus) and the chance to kill one a second time would be too juicy to pass up. Cue Fulgrim vs Guilliman Grudge Match
I'm stoked for Morti but Fulgrim is the one I am waiting for.
I'm patiently waiting for all of the Primarchs to slowly be revealed one at a time in the coming months.
Mortarion will be revealed in short order I'm sure (teased in the most current Death Guard video that was posted yesterday or early this morning, his massive man reaper being visible at the very end of the video). Then we will likely get a second loyalist primarch, then Fulgrim I expect, then last but not least a third loyalist primarch.
Past that, it's anyone's guess. I still hold some quiet hope that Sanguinius will make another appearance in 40k, but I don't expect it. Likely we'll see The Lion and Russ, or Dorn, or Vulkan, or Khan. Those are the most probable candidates for a grand return in 40k, with the Lion being what I would consider the obvious next choice with the presence of Cypher as a Dramatist Persona in Gathering Storm 3 and the foreshadowing of the blade he's carrying with him.
I suppose we'll see the 'Big Four' Chaos primarchs first, with Magnus (Tzneetch), Mortarion (Nurgle), Fulgrim (Slannesh) and Angron (Khorne) on the traitor side.
I would look to their foils on the loyalist side for likely releases beyond Guilliman.
So Guilliman, foil being Fulgrim
Russ (Obviously), foil being Magnus
Unknown (Lion?, Maybe Vulkan?), foil being Mortarion
Unknown (Sanguinius, Khan??), foil being Angron
Guess we'll see what happens. Can't wait to get a better look at Mortarion in the mean time.
Deadshot wrote: Late to the party but I'm chuck a dollar on Fulgrim coming back due to the line in GS3. Plus, I'm going to throw it out there than Fulgrim, Daemon Prince of the god of perfection with a boner for getting things perfect, was the one who killed Guilliman. I don't think he'd like the Eldar, the space elves who create said God that Fulgrim serves, bringing him back from the dead.
But he didn't kill Gulliman, just mortally wounded him.
Gulliman didn't die until his life support was turned off
Deadshot wrote: Late to the party but I'm chuck a dollar on Fulgrim coming back due to the line in GS3. Plus, I'm going to throw it out there than Fulgrim, Daemon Prince of the god of perfection with a boner for getting things perfect, was the one who killed Guilliman. I don't think he'd like the Eldar, the space elves who create said God that Fulgrim serves, bringing him back from the dead.
I could totally see Fulgrim returning to wreak full on crazy ex-wife levels of rage on the Imperium in a bid to put Guilliman down once and for all. After all, Fulgrim would loves killing his brothers (Guilliman and Manus) and the chance to kill one a second time would be too juicy to pass up. Cue Fulgrim vs Guilliman Grudge Match
I figured Fulgrim would be next since there was a note in one of the GS books (I think it was one of those) of a snakelike creature fighting Imperials.
Yvraine also brought back a rubric marine in front of Ahriman who had been dead/turned to dust for who knows how long. So until we are given some kind of definitive proof of her power or the limits of it, we can only assume she has complete mastery over death and can bring any single being back, provided there's any of them left to be brought back.
Of course that opens up "what if she brought the emperor back" but I somehow doubt she would do that as it would spell trouble for the Eldar, more than any (or all) of the primarchs would.
Deadshot wrote: Late to the party but I'm chuck a dollar on Fulgrim coming back due to the line in GS3. Plus, I'm going to throw it out there than Fulgrim, Daemon Prince of the god of perfection with a boner for getting things perfect, was the one who killed Guilliman. I don't think he'd like the Eldar, the space elves who create said God that Fulgrim serves, bringing him back from the dead.
But he didn't kill Gulliman, just mortally wounded him.
Gulliman didn't die until his life support was turned off
Until this latest turn of events he was at he brink of death, so practically dead. Fulgrim lefthim to suffer. Either way, Fulgrim still killed him, he inflicted the mortal wound.
Abbadon turning into a Daemon prince would be a big break with his character though, he uses Chaos as a tool for his own ends rather than giving himself to it like the Primarchs.
That is presumably why he has not allowed himself to be mutated or ascended before now.
I believe that his theory as to why Horus failed was that the Warmaster gave in to easily to the whims of the Chaos gods.
Going off this theory I can easily see Sanguinius being Angron's opposite. They tried real damn hard to get the Blood Angels to come over to the Khorne Side during the HH and they seem like natural counters to each other. Once you factor in the Black Rage/Red Thirst, they're pretty much two different sides to the same coin. One's just loyal/not corrupted and the other completely gave in to their blood lust/turned traitor.
Going off this theory I can easily see Sanguinius being Angron's opposite. They tried real damn hard to get the Blood Angels to come over to the Khorne Side during the HH and they seem like natural counters to each other. Once you factor in the Black Rage/Red Thirst, they're pretty much two different sides to the same coin. One's just loyal/not corrupted and the other completely gave in to their blood lust/turned traitor.
If we're doing pair-ups, the big 4 will definitely come back for Chaos, and I don't see Lorgar sitting out a conflict on this scale, particularly if Guilliman is kicking. And if they bring out 5 they'll bring out 6 Daemon Primarchs. Assuming for a second that the dead ones are dead dead deader than dead,
So six for Imperium would be
Guilliman
Russ
Dorn
Vulkan
Khan
Corax
Lion.
Out of those, Guilliman was the only one dead and Lorgar vs Guilliman would be a great option for money making.
Likewise, Perturabo vs Dorn would rake in sales, as would Magnus vs Russ, so those I'd say are guarenteed. Vulkan doesn't really have a couterpart in the Chaos side, but Khan (master duelist) vs Fulgrim would be nice to see, and Lion vs Mortarion as well. That would leave Corax and maybe, just maybe, Alpharius pops up finally? A shadow war in the background between those two would be epic to see. That would leave Vulkan to fight Angron, which doesn't make sense, but it does. Angron is a battle-hungry super-Bloodthirster, who can kill anyone and everyone. But not the big black guy who comes back to life. It would be the perfect foil for him.
As I mentioned before, I could totally see Fulgrim going after Guilliman to kill him again due to Eldar interferance and need for the perfect kill, so maybe Fulgrim adds Khan to his tally and sets off after Papa Smurf?
Nids are on the brink of taking out BAAL. Rescue fleet arrives with and Guilman. Blood Angels are almost wiped out. The sanguinor is there and getting stronger with every blood angel death.
The necrons arrive with a c'tan and illuminor Szeras. They parlay with the marine force after it becomes EVIDENT that the Sanguinor is infact the spirit of Sanguinius. The necron's say they can merge the spirit of the sanguinor and rebuild the body of Sanguinius using their technology.
It's the 11th hour and they make the deal. Sanguinius is reborn and he's basically ARCHANGEL! The psykic shockwave of Sanguinius's spirit merging with his rebuilt and improved metal body devistates half the hive fleet that shrinks back to the fringes of the galaxy. Thus giving time for more the the story to unfold and for the blood angels to rebuild etc.. etc..
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post: It ties back in the partnership seen between blood angels and necrons. it ties in the recent partnership between marines and xenos species.
It also can show more insight into what Tranzyn was up to on Cadia
Going off this theory I can easily see Sanguinius being Angron's opposite. They tried real damn hard to get the Blood Angels to come over to the Khorne Side during the HH and they seem like natural counters to each other. Once you factor in the Black Rage/Red Thirst, they're pretty much two different sides to the same coin. One's just loyal/not corrupted and the other completely gave in to their blood lust/turned traitor.
If we're doing pair-ups, the big 4 will definitely come back for Chaos, and I don't see Lorgar sitting out a conflict on this scale, particularly if Guilliman is kicking. And if they bring out 5 they'll bring out 6 Daemon Primarchs. Assuming for a second that the dead ones are dead dead deader than dead,
So six for Imperium would be
Guilliman
Russ
Dorn
Vulkan
Khan
Corax
Lion.
Out of those, Guilliman was the only one dead and Lorgar vs Guilliman would be a great option for money making.
Likewise, Perturabo vs Dorn would rake in sales, as would Magnus vs Russ, so those I'd say are guarenteed. Vulkan doesn't really have a couterpart in the Chaos side, but Khan (master duelist) vs Fulgrim would be nice to see, and Lion vs Mortarion as well. That would leave Corax and maybe, just maybe, Alpharius pops up finally? A shadow war in the background between those two would be epic to see. That would leave Vulkan to fight Angron, which doesn't make sense, but it does. Angron is a battle-hungry super-Bloodthirster, who can kill anyone and everyone. But not the big black guy who comes back to life. It would be the perfect foil for him.
As I mentioned before, I could totally see Fulgrim going after Guilliman to kill him again due to Eldar interferance and need for the perfect kill, so maybe Fulgrim adds Khan to his tally and sets off after Papa Smurf?
Just rambly speculation.
I like all of this except the part where Sangunius doesn't come back haha. I'm biased though. Hadn't even thought about a shadow war between Corax and Alpharius. That would be awesome. Which lead me to another thought....and just throwing this out there...and correct me if I'm wrong...but everyone assumes the Curze is dead but the vid link cut out right before the killing blow was struck. Anyone see any chance of Curze coming back specifically to fight with the Lion when get wakes up? I feel like Curze coming back would definitely be out of left field. The only other time I've read anything else about his death was in the Beast Arises 12 - vangorich mentions the story of the death of Curze but never tells it...so it could have actually have been how he wasn't killed.
He doesn't even have to get a death mask back from Dante as his face metallic. he can still be sad and moody and conflicted because he doesn't look like a young robert plant. It would be deep and compelling.
You can't have a metal Sanguinius!
His body is still mostly okay *mostly.
But that's kind of how I imagine it going except Eldar rather than Necrons.
I wouldn't say the BA-Necrons had a previous alliance, it was more of a 'neither of us will shoot each other until these guys are dead'.
I dunno about bringing back Sanguinius....I mean, the Black Rage, the BA and their successors' defining flaw, is all about his anger at his brother as he died. I feel like bringing him back to life would cheapen that. I'd rather have a pimped out Sanguinor and BA commanders as a triumvirate.
Then again, I grumble about bringing primarchs back at all, so GWdef won't listen to me
At present, this is little more than conjecture on a hypothesis (Sanguinius being resurrected) and the ensuing discussion of that.
Primarchs are coming back. Not en-masse, but slowly and surely as we have seen. Magnus led the charge, and Guilliman followed suit a few months later. Now, Mortarion is poised to make an appearance next, and beyond that is little more than rumor and speculation, though most people are putting their bets on the Lion as far as I can tell.
That being said, the Blood Angels vampire theme is fairly pronounced and it's obvious where those influences are drawn from, at least classically, paired mostly equally with the angelic/biblical influence. I wouldn't put it past GW to dip into that and bring the Angel back as resurrection is a rather pronounced theme in both spheres of influence.
Also at least two of the major lore characters are distinctly about returning from or staving off what is universally viiewed (at least in the Blood Angels anyway) as a death sentence; the Black Rage. Specifically, Mephiston, who straight up beat the Black Rage and came back from it, and Lemartes, who fell to the rage but is able to, through sheer force of will alone, keep it at bay and not succumb to it completely.
I think having Sanguinius return, to save his gene sons from near-certain annihilation at the hands (claws? talons?) of the Tyranids and the ensuing realization that his progeny have suffered and endured with the flaw born from the gene memory from his death would be an amazing opportunity for fluff and storytelling within the setting of Gathering Storm. Wrestling with his choice to try and save Horus, now seeing how deeply that choice would run and it's effect on what would become of his Legion in the ensuig 10,000 years.
It's a dim hope, I know, thinking Sanguinius would return, but man I would love to see it and read that story. That's for sure.
Red__Thirst wrote: At present, this is little more than conjecture on a hypothesis (Sanguinius being resurrected) and the ensuing discussion of that.
Primarchs are coming back. Not en-masse, but slowly and surely as we have seen. Magnus led the charge, and Guilliman followed suit a few months later. Now, Mortarion is poised to make an appearance next, and beyond that is little more than rumor and speculation, though most people are putting their bets on the Lion as far as I can tell.
That being said, the Blood Angels vampire theme is fairly pronounced and it's obvious where those influences are drawn from, at least classically, paired mostly equally with the angelic/biblical influence. I wouldn't put it past GW to dip into that and bring the Angel back as resurrection is a rather pronounced theme in both spheres of influence.
Also at least two of the major lore characters are distinctly about returning from or staving off what is universally viiewed (at least in the Blood Angels anyway) as a death sentence; the Black Rage. Specifically, Mephiston, who straight up beat the Black Rage and came back from it, and Lemartes, who fell to the rage but is able to, through sheer force of will alone, keep it at bay and not succumb to it completely.
I think having Sanguinius return, to save his gene sons from near-certain annihilation at the hands (claws? talons?) of the Tyranids and the ensuing realization that his progeny have suffered and endured with the flaw born from the gene memory from his death would be an amazing opportunity for fluff and storytelling within the setting of Gathering Storm. Wrestling with his choice to try and save Horus, now seeing how deeply that choice would run and it's effect on what would become of his Legion in the ensuig 10,000 years.
It's a dim hope, I know, thinking Sanguinius would return, but man I would love to see it and read that story. That's for sure.
Thoughts to ponder. Take it easy for now folks.
-Red__Thirst-
That's a good way to put it and if it were told that way, I'd be down. That would be a compelling story. However, I don't think GW would tell it that well.
I really enjoyed the portrayal of Guilliman in Gathering Storm 3, and the internal struggles of coming to grips with what the Imperium has become. I would love to see that explored from other primarch's perspectives personally, be they loyal or traitor.
The Sanguinor being merged with Sanguinius?
But that would mean non of us could ever use the Sanguinor on the tabletop ag... oh wait a minute... never mind.
I think the Lion is the most likely to come. They're still on the front of the starter box, the Primarch is in a known stasis state similar to what Gulliman was, and Cipher being front and center.
So let's say they slowly bring back the 4 CSM primarchs of the 4 gods and 4 good primarchs. What if they're bringing them back to kill a few of them off? Guilliman avenging his mortal wound from Fulgrim? Russ suplexing Magnus again?
One of the rumors is that one loyalist primarch will turn traitor and one traitor primarch will return to being Loyal.
I'm curious to see if this comes to fruition. Especially if the idea of the four chaos primarchs being represented are aligned with the four major chaos deities (Magnus, Fulgrim, Mortarion, and Angron) comes to be in-game.
Of those options, I doubt any would return to the fold as it were. But, obviously we shall see if the rumor holds any merit. Maybe Magnus? Not sure.
Not knowing which primarchs are coming on the loyalist side of the table, it's anyone's guess on that.
I'm surely interested in seeing whats to come, that's for sure.
Alpharius/Omegron will return as loyal. It is pretty much explained in the 30K fluf that the Alpha legion only went renegade because Uldrad turned up and told them that if they sided with the emperor then the universe was doomed, but if they pretended to turn traitor then there would be a chance.
master of ordinance wrote: Alpharius/Omegron will return as loyal. It is pretty much explained in the 30K fluf that the Alpha legion only went renegade because Uldrad turned up and told them that if they sided with the emperor then the universe was doomed, but if they pretended to turn traitor then there would be a chance.
Spoiler:
Point of clarification, but it was the Cabal, not Eldrad who told them that. Although, they've sided with Horus and what they were supposed to stop (millennia of war between Chaos and Humanity) is what came about, so who knows. It's been 10k years and the reasoning behind why they went Chaos was to eradicate it since Horus would wipe out humanity if he won. So it may be that not even the AL is pro-Imperium, but anti-Chaos, and the Imperium and humanity are expendable, if that makes sense. We'll see! If a Chaos primarch does go loyal, I think it'll be Alpharius/Omegon.
Alpharius wrote: It won't be "Alpharius" but it might be "Alpharius".
(F'n PRAETORIAN OF DORN gak storm fether of a book)
Pretty sure that Omegon was 'always' loyal - at least to The Emperor, if not the Imperium.
Anyway, I'm not sure the whole "One Traitor Turns Loyal, One Loyalist Turns Traitor" rumor anyway.
Where did that one start?
Maybe Alpharius was pretending to be the loyal Omegon this whole time and will reveal himself as a traitor, and Omegon has REALLY been pretending to be the traitorous Alpharius this whole time and reveals himself to be the real Omegon.
I don't put much stock in the primarchs flipping sides rumor personally speaking.
It's a fun idea in conjecture, but in actual practice I can't see it. There are too many people with armies that would suddenly be Chaos or Loyalist where once they were the opposite.
My prediction for loyalist primarchs after Guilliman are the Lion, Dorn, and Russ. Maybe substitute Khan, or Vulkan for Dorn, but I see Dorn coming back in like a golden hurricane.
Of course, I selfishly want to see Sanguinius rise again, but we'll see if GW decides to pull that one off or not once we get more rumors of the BA vs. Tyranids story arc coming soon.
After that, I'm calling Fulgrim being next after Morarion. As educated a guess as I can come up with.
I'd love to see Vulkan come back and seems logical since he is a perpetual anyway (and likely in one of Trayzn's vaults).
But my bets are for loyals:
Guilliman
Russ
Lion
Sanguinus
Each are from the big four chapters.
Chaos
Magnus
Mortarion
Angron
Fulgrim
Each represents one of the four major chaos factions.
I believe Hastings confirmed Russ and Magnus, Guilliman and Mortarian are going to be made.
That said, I think chaos primarchs make sense but the loyalists should be:
Guilliman
Russ
Vulkan
Lion
Giving the Blood Angels Sanguinus back is just too much. The black rage is at heart due to his demise at the hands of Horus.
I also hope that GW doesn't make them too cartoony.
Some of the newer stuff, the grey knight baby holder thing, wolf riders and dark angel skimmer with the fountain on the back are just too power rangers and not grim dark enough.
Tactical_Spam wrote: If Horus comes back, I'm quitting 40k altogether. He was obliterated, body and soul, by Big E. I doubt the Chaos gods have any say in bringing him back from the dead.
Bad news, Fabius Bile actually did bring back a Horus, complete with some memory. This was something that happened a few hundred years after the HH though, IIRC.
Tactical_Spam wrote: If Horus comes back, I'm quitting 40k altogether. He was obliterated, body and soul, by Big E. I doubt the Chaos gods have any say in bringing him back from the dead.
Bad news, Fabius Bile actually did bring back a Horus, complete with some memory. This was something that happened a few hundred years after the HH though, IIRC.
Could you imagine peoples reactions if Horus were brought back through this? I hope not but a dark part of me wants this to happen just to see the fall out.
Tactical_Spam wrote: If Horus comes back, I'm quitting 40k altogether. He was obliterated, body and soul, by Big E. I doubt the Chaos gods have any say in bringing him back from the dead.
Bad news, Fabius Bile actually did bring back a Horus, complete with some memory. This was something that happened a few hundred years after the HH though, IIRC.
Could you imagine peoples reactions if Horus were brought back through this? I hope not but a dark part of me wants this to happen just to see the fall out.
Bringing Horus back would be even worse than bringing back Sanguinus or even Ferrus for that matter. Geez that means they can replicate Dorn from the hand that was left.
Gets me thinking that maybe Guilliman's new crusade with the new super space mahreens will be to find his brothers just like the Emperor went to find his sons. The new super mahreens are happening though I'm pretty sure, with what Hastings said, hints in the book (Guilliman and Cawls secret glances and whisperings and Cawl's departure to Mars) and the March WD article mentioning Cawl's work on Mars for Guillman all the way back to just after the HH.
Tactical_Spam wrote: If Horus comes back, I'm quitting 40k altogether. He was obliterated, body and soul, by Big E. I doubt the Chaos gods have any say in bringing him back from the dead.
Bad news, Fabius Bile actually did bring back a Horus, complete with some memory. This was something that happened a few hundred years after the HH though, IIRC.
Could you imagine peoples reactions if Horus were brought back through this? I hope not but a dark part of me wants this to happen just to see the fall out.
Its okay, Abaddon did the right thing and re-unalived him. Horus never should have been de-unalived though, which is basically what gw did by having Fabius create an functional clone with memories.
Moving on from that, I agree that Sanguinius is easy to bring back if GW wanted to. He's a Vampire theme Primarch, and everyone knows vampires will re-alive themselves at the most (in)opportune moment. Also, the reasoning for the mechanics of bringing him back in the OP seems sound too. That's 2 mechanics by which he could return.
I've not seen anyone mention the return of Konrad Curze, the Night Lords primarch. Could he return by vampire magic too? What if his death had been faked all along and he has actually been drinking scotch for the past 10k years with Alphogus in the moustache twirling club?
Tactical_Spam wrote: If Horus comes back, I'm quitting 40k altogether. He was obliterated, body and soul, by Big E. I doubt the Chaos gods have any say in bringing him back from the dead.
Bad news, Fabius Bile actually did bring back a Horus, complete with some memory. This was something that happened a few hundred years after the HH though, IIRC.
Could you imagine peoples reactions if Horus were brought back through this? I hope not but a dark part of me wants this to happen just to see the fall out.
Its okay, Abaddon did the right thing and re-unalived him. Horus never should have been de-unalived though, which is basically what gw did by having Fabius create an functional clone with memories.
Moving on from that, I agree that Sanguinius is easy to bring back if GW wanted to. He's a Vampire theme Primarch, and everyone knows vampires will re-alive themselves at the most (in)opportune moment. Also, the reasoning for the mechanics of bringing him back in the OP seems sound too. That's 2 mechanics by which he could return.
I've not seen anyone mention the return of Konrad Curze, the Night Lords primarch. Could he return by vampire magic too? What I his death had been faked all along and he has actually been drinking scotch for the past 10k years with Alphogus in the moustache twirling club?
Haha I mentioned this in either this thread or another one. I mean, the vid link cut out before Curze was actually killed, and he's assumed dead. In the Beast Arises book 12 Vangorich mentions he knows the real story of Curze death (maybe he wasn't actually killed) but never tells the story. He could still be alive doing Curze stuff. Like coming up with a new plan to terrorize The Lion.
Any number of dead primarchs could be brought back in any number of ways depending on how much they (GW) want to contort the fluff to suit the narrative.
All that said, obvious primarchs returning being what they are, I also wanted to cast an eye to the less likely options with this thread. Konrad Kurze could very likely resurface, as has been pointed out. The video cut out before the blow was struck. The possibility exists he faked his death and has been full bore night haunter doing night haunterish things all this time. Nobody would report it, because he likely kills any and all witnesses that see him.
I don't expect to see Horus return, as Abaddon has become the 'big baddie' face of chaos. Whether he remains such, or is cast down eventually by a daemon primarch is anyone's guess. As the clock ticks ever closer to midnight, we'll see where GW goes and how far they take it with the new edition of the game.
I'm genuinely excited to see what comes though, personally speaking here. I hope to see more info soon.
Red__Thirst wrote: Any number of dead primarchs could be brought back in any number of ways depending on how much they (GW) want to contort the fluff to suit the narrative.
All that said, obvious primarchs returning being what they are, I also wanted to cast an eye to the less likely options with this thread. Konrad Kurze could very likely resurface, as has been pointed out. The video cut out before the blow was struck. The possibility exists he faked his death and has been full bore night haunter doing night haunterish things all this time. Nobody would report it, because he likely kills any and all witnesses that see him.
Yes, but didn't the NL trilogy by ADB talk specifically about his execution and Talos hunting down the Callidus who has his head in a to-go bag?
Yes, but didn't the NL trilogy by ADB talk specifically about his execution and Talos hunting down the Callidus who has his head in a to-go bag?
Not read the book, sadly, so I can't comment on that I'm afraid. If that's the case and it really is Night Haunter's head the Callidus had, then there's one who is likely truly gone along side Horus and Ferrus (Ferrus being at least known to have been killed, etc).
We shall see. I'm just looking forward to seeing Mortarion in all his nurgly glory (gory?) in the near future I hope. I can't wait to see him compared to Magnus, and the effects that each of their respective chaos dieties has had on their physical forms in the sculpting. I love the Tzneetchy influence so obvious on Magnus. I can't wait to see what they've done with 'ol Morty.
I could see Dorn turning rogue, reason being The Beast Arises event
Spoiler:
In Beast Arises, the Imperial Fists are completely and utterly wiped out, the Imperial Fists and Dorn's genetic line are utterly dead and then brought back through geneseed stores, but I could see Dorn seeing this as a betrayal, as if these current IF were not actually his sons. He might also see this as a result of the Codex Astartes, which split up his Legion and left only 1000 boys in yelllow. You know who came up with that idea? The big boy in blue. Who currently runs the Imperium after having been brought back to life by a Xenos ritual.
Haha there is. That rumor originally came out, then it was fake, then this book hit and its not fake, now they're saying its a fake again. I have no idea what to believe.
This just fits into what I really want since I play Dark Angels
ILegion wrote: Haha there is. That rumor originally came out, then it was fake, then this book hit and its not fake, now they're saying its a fake again. I have no idea what to believe.
This just fits into what I really want since I play Dark Angels
I was surprised to see this (DA book) teased earlier today and equally surprised it was revealed to be a hoax.
I'm rather curious to see if anything similar to it is coming soon though, as the Lion has been teased quite a lot and a DA themed release seems likely to accompany the Lion's release.
GodDamUser wrote: Thought the next one out was a BA release (well a novel at least on the after math of Rising Leviathan) With the Tyranids now making it to Baal
That was my understanding as well, here. I'm extremely interested in seeing if this BA vs. Tyranids campaign is going to be released before, after, or concurrent with any new edition release. I suspect April will see the new Death Guard and Mortarion released with the recent teaser video we've seen. After that, it's anyone's guess really.
GodDamUser wrote: Thought the next one out was a BA release (well a novel at least on the after math of Rising Leviathan) With the Tyranids now making it to Baal
That was my understanding as well, here. I'm extremely interested in seeing if this BA vs. Tyranids campaign is going to be released before, after, or concurrent with any new edition release. I suspect April will see the new Death Guard and Mortarion released with the recent teaser video we've seen. After that, it's anyone's guess really.
Yay rampant speculation ahoy.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
I would reeeeaaally love to see the Baal narrative finish out. Throw some love at the BA and Nids, both of whom need it. Say, a triumvirate of BA characters and big Nid that can compete with primarchs/knights?
That being said, I hope the new BA wouldn't be Sanguinius (which we've already discussed).
BA will probably have a release soon, but the Lion is probably the next loyalist primarch. The Fallen, and Cypher, are right at Big E's doorstep, with what is potentially the Lion sword. If the threat of that won't wake up Jonny boy, I have no clue what will.
I fully expect to see that sword Cypher is carrying come into play at some point sooner rather than later.
Whether it's the Lion who winds up carrying it, or some other DA hero of yore, is anyone's guess. There's certainly some intrigue afoot though that's for sure.
In the mean time, I just want to see this Nurgle release come on out, as I REALLY want to see the full range of Death Guard models and of course Mortarion. Both the model, and the rules too.
Hopefully this isn't considered threadromancy, as this thread isn't too terribly old, but I felt this would be a good chance to offer up a point that has been making the rounds since last week. Let's jump right in shall we?
Firstly, the revamped 40k universe map has some new additions.... Namely the giant warp scar across it's center:
Notice that Baal, as well as several prominent Imperial Guard Regimental worlds are stranded on the far side of the scar, labeled Imperium Nihilus (ominous, that).
Some speculate that this spells doom for the Blood Angels, as a recent BoLS article suggests. I have one thing to say to that: It sounds like six different kinds of heresy with a seventh kind liberally sprinkled on top, just for giggles. I digress, for now.
I've seen a few other threads discussing the possibility of Sanguinius's return in various level of theory and detail recently, and with the recent reveal of the new galaxy map I felt it might add some credence to the possibility that somehow, some way, Sanguinius might be brought back to defend the Imperium Nihilus while his Brother Guilliman organizes things down South of the Scar.
That'd certainly be interesting, but that leaves me wondering how they'll retcon Sanguinius back into existence. Someone gonna Robby G him with a new suit of armor? Pretty dead for that right now unfortunately. But all in all, I doubt Baal and the BA will just fall, maybe a mass relocation though.
I really want to see the Salamanders find all of the Artifacts of Vulkan and their Primarch return. Vulkan is the most human of all the Primarchs and I think would be as inspiring a presence as Guilliman. Being that he's functionally immortal it's super easy story-wise to return him into the current story arc.
Vulkan would be a boon for sure. After Sanguinius, he's my second favorite primarch, and the Salamanders are my second favorite marine chapter after Blood Angels. I love their humanity and humility, and doing up a squad of Firedrake terminators sounds like a TON of fun. Nice change of pace to painting Red, for sure. I wonder where Nocturn wound up with the great warp storm spanning the Imperium? Would be curious to see if the Salamanders were also in the Dark Imperium with the Blood Angels, or if any other first founding or second founding chapters are bombing around up north of the scar.
Red__Thirst wrote: Vulkan would be a boon for sure. After Sanguinius, he's my second favorite primarch, and the Salamanders are my second favorite marine chapter after Blood Angels. I love their humanity and humility, and doing up a squad of Firedrake terminators sounds like a TON of fun. Nice change of pace to painting Red, for sure. I wonder where Nocturn wound up with the great warp storm spanning the Imperium? Would be curious to see if the Salamanders were also in the Dark Imperium with the Blood Angels, or if any other first founding or second founding chapters are bombing around up north of the scar.
We shall see. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
They wound up in the Imperium side of the galactic map.
