Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/01 17:25:15


Post by: oldzoggy


I played the game today and it was fun. There must be more who have played this game locally what do you guys think about it ?
The rules set in general felt familiar and includes a lot of cool rules such as hitting your own guys, jumping falling and fast simple combats that still has a cool and friendly injury system, you almost want you guys to roll on the wounded table.
The only thing I missed where multi lv terrain rules, it seems kinda odd that they aren't included in the rules.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/01 20:52:38


Post by: Fafnir


I really want to play it, but without an Inquisitional detachment (seriously GW, what the hell? This game is practically made for them!), I'm feeling very left out.

It's just pretty disappointing that they've kept things limited almost entirely to single boxes. Hopefully in the future they'll release rules for more varied squads. In the meantime, I could try writing up some of my own, but that's a task in its own with its own hurdles.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/01 23:26:06


Post by: vyse.04


I played my first full game today (of either WH40k or Shadow Wars) and had fun, but I have been following WH40k for almost a year and am familiar with the rules. The initial army composition seems streamlined if you ignore some of the additional ammo/upgrade purchases, and the ongoing campaign progression helps push the narrative campaign angle. I was bummed to see that I had to pay for each Force Weapon on my Grey Knights (30 point minimum), but being swords they paid dividends on two of my assaults by forcing rerolls.

The modifiers (cover, running etc.) are a bit cumbersome to track during the shooting phase with all of the other to hit/wound rolls, but it made more sense towards the end. Negative Save modifiers were really the only consistent benefit provided on either side, and that was only when it was an extreme like -3. Assault seemed random with the stats that are tracked, as well as the attacker and defender essentially starting on equal footing (+1 for Assaulters)... I think assaulters should have a better modifier (D3 maybe) given that it is not the easiest position to get into.

All in all it was a fun game. Things started to drag towards the end when the bunker door was destroyed, but much of the wasted time was spent reading over the rules. The single objective kept the action moving towards an area and combat was fairly quick. These rule checks would go away as familiarity increases, and I could see this being a fun game to start a league off of.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/01 23:36:46


Post by: iamshirtacus


Found a local game shop who got sw:a and sold it early. Game is fun. Rule book is nice and concise, with roo for expansion for other factions. Overall a good book and game.

Proof of purchase didnt upload first time

[Thumb - IMG_20170401_151337.jpg]


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 02:47:56


Post by: oldzoggy


 Fafnir wrote:
I really want to play it, but without an Inquisitional detachment (seriously GW, what the hell? This game is practically made for them!), I'm feeling very left out.

It's just pretty disappointing that they've kept things limited almost entirely to single boxes. Hopefully in the future they'll release rules for more varied squads. In the meantime, I could try writing up some of my own, but that's a task in its own with its own hurdles.



There is no real need to feel left out it would not be that hard to play your henchmen as count as genestealer or guard kill teams. Not all of your models could join, and you lose a ton of customisation options but this is the case for armies.
This game feels like it could use some serious supplements. All of the factions could use some more love in the equipment and hiring department but the core rules and the levelling up system are both great.
Glad these 2nd edition like rule become mainstream now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
vyse.04 wrote:

All in all it was a fun game. Things started to drag towards the end when the bunker door was destroyed,


Wait you guys actually found the rules for bunker doors ? There are rules for hitting and attacking terrain but we found non for the terrain themselves.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 04:14:18


Post by: Gobbla


 Fafnir wrote:
I really want to play it, but without an Inquisitional detachment (seriously GW, what the hell? This game is practically made for them!), I'm feeling very left out.

It's just pretty disappointing that they've kept things limited almost entirely to single boxes. Hopefully in the future they'll release rules for more varied squads. In the meantime, I could try writing up some of my own, but that's a task in its own with its own hurdles.

The game seems to be pretty much basic troop types. They confined the game to squads and Sgt. equivalents. Maybe that aced out the Inquisitor? I get the reluctance to freelance, but it should not be difficult to port over other 40K models. Or, do some counts as. Gotta believe once they recover from having sold out in seconds, GW will add more fun stuff. And, then, balance goes out the window.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 05:19:43


Post by: Fafnir


 Gobbla wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
I really want to play it, but without an Inquisitional detachment (seriously GW, what the hell? This game is practically made for them!), I'm feeling very left out.

It's just pretty disappointing that they've kept things limited almost entirely to single boxes. Hopefully in the future they'll release rules for more varied squads. In the meantime, I could try writing up some of my own, but that's a task in its own with its own hurdles.


The game seems to be pretty much basic troop types. They confined the game to squads and Sgt. equivalents. Maybe that aced out the Inquisitor?


The thing is that your average Inquisitor isn't much better a fighter than most Sgt. equivalents anyway. They have access to a more esoteric and less uniform armoury, but as far as reflections of their combative abilities in the fluff are concerned, they're not particularly special in the greater scheme of things. The only real limitation that they face right now is that there's no plastic unit box for them (and rightfully so, considering how unique each individual one is meant to be).

It's the same reason why Sisters don't have a detachment, despite being one of the forces present at Armageddon and having a basic troop type. They don't have a plastic box.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 05:22:58


Post by: vyse.04


We found the rules for the door (3 HP), but we ended up counting any one of the four entrances to the bunker we were using. It didn't help my cause during deployment as I had to cover four entrances, and the attackers came in on a side with ruins so three were essentially in full cover with a view of the door the entire game. In hindsight I should have called one door, but it was the first game at the store and my first game ever at that. It still ended up being a good game, and we got a chance to go through each phase which was the main purpose anyway. At least the alarm was sounded on turn one so my movement wasn't nerfed, but it ended up being a no win situation. Again the game was fun so I can't complain.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 06:08:28


Post by: Grimgold


I've seen the two MWG batreps, and it looks like a blast. It's different enough from 40k to be diverting but similar enough to be comfortable. They really succeeded in making the forces different from each other, with fairly minimal rules bloat. Excited for the leagues to start and replace Blood bowl as the FotM.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 06:12:23


Post by: Bobthehero


I though MWG only had 1 Batrep out.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 06:34:14


Post by: Grimgold


One on youtube and one is in the members only vault. The one in the vault was Astra militarum vs Orks and no spoilers, I really like it because of the way it ended. It was a fitting "well that's Necromunda for you" way to bring the match to a close.

*Edit* People are already starting to post others, I expect by the end of the week we will be swimming in SW: A batreps


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 06:37:23


Post by: Bobthehero


Bah, PM me the spoilers, at least? I am curious to see how the IG fares.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 10:28:18


Post by: casvalremdeikun


This game is probably going to trick me into buying a Xenos army or two. Or at least a kit or two from a Xenos army. But it at least gives me a reason to give my Skitarii Vanguards the Ranger Heads (Rangers can take Radium Carbines in SWA).


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 11:32:04


Post by: Roknar


What do I think? I think GW can go feth themselves for making it a limited release...... seriously. I was looking forward to preordering it, aaaaaand it's gone -_-

*rant over*


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 11:34:48


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


I've tried to find it on the GW website, but it's saying sold out - is that permanent?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 11:55:58


Post by: master of ordinance


Has anyone seen the IG rules? I have my bods ready but I need to see them first.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 12:30:08


Post by: oldzoggy


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've tried to find it on the GW website, but it's saying sold out - is that permanent?


The box might be but no sane company would keep an entire game OOP if they clearly have ways to produce it and make money from it. My guess is that it is just a supply issue cover up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 master of ordinance wrote:
Has anyone seen the IG rules? I have my bods ready but I need to see them first.


yes I have. They are quite simple, but I might have remembered some wrong.
All point costs are the same as the ones on the genestealer online lists for troopers, leaders heavies (70 not 10 10 was a misprint) and juvs, but theiir stats are worse.

Leader regular vet stats has voice of command gives re roll 1's to hit within 12".
tooper regular vet stats
juv regular guardsmen stats
Guards can take up to 3 of these heavy *vet stats ? not sure if vet of guard stats ) these are the only ones who can take special weapons
Max squad size was 10 perhaps 12

weapon options.

Special weapons: grenade launcher krak, frak or both, flamer, plasmagun. No acces to heavy stubbers like the genestealers have
basic, lasgun option to give them hot shot also others forgot those since they are kinda inferior might be auto gun and shotgun
pistols: plasma, las, bolt
close comabat weapons and power or chain sword. No heavy close combat stuff
all the guard armour is available

Other options I remember extra hand weapons, cammo gear ( - 4 shooting distance for those shooting at you ), hooks for safely jumping of buildings, red dot laser (+1 hit), telescopic sight ( extra range), photo vision (-1 cover), and some grenades not sure what ones




[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 13:44:27


Post by: BomBomHotdog


Got to play a test game at my local GW yesterday. It's a fun quick game and easy to pick up with lots of subtly. I played Skitarii vs his Khorne marked CSM. He had numbers (cultists) and hard hitting melee (CSM) vs my more specialized and higher costing team. I rolled poorly when it mattered and lost my leader as my first causality. It went down from there. Moral victory, I killed his Aspiring Champion while my Alpha was just out for a game.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf

PDF for the armies not listed in the main book. Which I assume are SM, Ork, and AM

And yes this is a limited splash release.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 14:11:41


Post by: DarkStarSabre


I look forward to it and appreciate the other factions getting a free download...but sorta awkward when you don't have the core Kill Team rules to look at (so how many Specialists can we have, eh?) and some of the weapon profiles are in the core book too.

Limited seems like a really bad move on GW's part. They did state something on the GW FB page so maybe we'll see reprints - would be stupid not to keep this around as it's clearly that popular.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 14:14:26


Post by: Wayniac


I find it funny that there's no way to play actual Space Marines, but Chaos can get Marines in the sheets I saw (there were Grey Knights, but I didn't see any way to do a team of like Tactical Marines, just the Scouts). Playstyle wise I saw a demo and paged through the rules, it was not too bad but seems like it's easily abused (like anything else) if you jump right into min-maxing a team.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 14:35:32


Post by: Kanluwen


Wayniac wrote:
I find it funny that there's no way to play actual Space Marines, but Chaos can get Marines in the sheets I saw (there were Grey Knights, but I didn't see any way to do a team of like Tactical Marines, just the Scouts). Playstyle wise I saw a demo and paged through the rules, it was not too bad but seems like it's easily abused (like anything else) if you jump right into min-maxing a team.

You can't do a team of Tactical Marines, but Scout Kill Teams get 1st Company Veterans as Specialist Operatives.


A Chaos Marine Kill Team that isn't going heavy on Cultists is going to be extremely small, just like the Grey Knights one(which caps you out at 6 models total).

League play is apparently aimed at 1k points for a campaign, so factor in that you need to build a bit of leeway in case someone dies/gets downed and has to miss out on a game. The Scout list I built yesterday ended up being more or less about what an all CSM Kill Team would be. It's small, it's heavy hitting but if you lose even one guy you are boned for the next game unless you had some way to keep them safe.

Also for those who are interested, they have parted out the PDF that was posted yesterday so you can find the factions you want easier.
Here is the Community Post with all the links


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 14:52:36


Post by: oldzoggy


 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I look forward to it and appreciate the other factions getting a free download...but sorta awkward when you don't have the core Kill Team rules to look at (so how many Specialists can we have, eh?) and some of the weapon profiles are in the core book too.

Limited seems like a really bad move on GW's part. They did state something on the GW FB page so maybe we'll see reprints - would be stupid not to keep this around as it's clearly that popular.


You have 2 specialists unless it is noted on your faction lists. Guards get 3.
But yeah not being able to read the core rules and learn them at home is quite sucky.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 15:08:32


Post by: NivlacSupreme


So does anybody have a picture of the rules?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 15:45:56


Post by: stewe128


Yeah based on the MWG video it seems like Genestealers will be insanely strong since they can all start in hiding which basically forces your opponent to move forward while you wait for the best opportune time to blast them.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 17:02:45


Post by: Kanluwen


 NivlacSupreme wrote:
So does anybody have a picture of the rules?

If they did, they probably couldn't be posting them since it's published material rather than PDFs.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 17:15:01


Post by: Grimgold


Spikey bits has some pictures, but they are for the rules everyone would know from watching a batrep. I'm pretty sure we are going to see a digital release of the main rulebook, Which is the reason I'm not worried about the box set selling out.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 17:26:12


Post by: timetowaste85


I heard I can't use my daemons! So no reason to pick it up. I'm sure my local has a copy. But I'm not snagging it.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 18:16:37


Post by: Ir0njack


I'm excited to play a game of it. I definitely want to try making a Skitarii Alpha with dual Phosphor blasters. Why? because it sounds awesome. Sad that the fletchet blaster is only for infiltrators I would have loved to see a Alpha dual wielding them. Also a Sniper with the Arquebus paired with a buddy carrying a Omnispex seems nasty off the top of my head " I'm just going to sit back here and camp for headshots "


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 18:20:37


Post by: Jambles


I can't wait to try it, hopefully it won't be long before they release another wave.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 18:31:06


Post by: Freddy Kruger


I'm really excited for this! My first taste of warning was a few clunky games of Necromunda. This will be nostalgia heaven!

Right, I'm off to eBay some metal Necron warriors/immortals, as I feel that they will cause retro overload!


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 19:36:02


Post by: master of ordinance


 oldzoggy wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've tried to find it on the GW website, but it's saying sold out - is that permanent?


The box might be but no sane company would keep an entire game OOP if they clearly have ways to produce it and make money from it. My guess is that it is just a supply issue cover up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 master of ordinance wrote:
Has anyone seen the IG rules? I have my bods ready but I need to see them first.


yes I have. They are quite simple, but I might have remembered some wrong.
All point costs are the same as the ones on the genestealer online lists for troopers, leaders heavies (70 not 10 10 was a misprint) and juvs, but theiir stats are worse.

Leader regular vet stats has voice of command gives re roll 1's to hit within 12".
tooper regular vet stats
juv regular guardsmen stats
Guards can take up to 3 of these heavy *vet stats ? not sure if vet of guard stats ) these are the only ones who can take special weapons
Max squad size was 10 perhaps 12

weapon options.

Special weapons: grenade launcher krak, frak or both, flamer, plasmagun. No acces to heavy stubbers like the genestealers have
basic, lasgun option to give them hot shot also others forgot those since they are kinda inferior might be auto gun and shotgun
pistols: plasma, las, bolt
close comabat weapons and power or chain sword. No heavy close combat stuff
all the guard armour is available

Other options I remember extra hand weapons, cammo gear ( - 4 shooting distance for those shooting at you ), hooks for safely jumping of buildings, red dot laser (+1 hit), telescopic sight ( extra range), photo vision (-1 cover), and some grenades not sure what ones




Well, that is a pity, I wanted to use a Heavy Stubber.
Any chance of getting the army list for them?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 20:42:14


Post by: Kanluwen


Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 20:47:17


Post by: Elbows


One of my friends is picking up the boxed set, so I'll probably give it a whirl eventually (have all the models).

The Eldar list is pretty anemic. It also has some errors (the Avenger shuriken catapult is 5 points more for 2" of range...but loses its +1 modifier at short range, making it essentially worse, etc.). They also have the stupid BS4/WS4 guardian nonsense which makes the gap almost non-existent between them and Dire Avengers, etc.

It'd be exceptionally easy to whip up an entire codex worth of options for any of the armies on that PDF though, so the sky's the limit, really. I'm not sure how I feel about the longevity of the game - and I think the elevated combat abilities/weapons will create a markedly different game environment (I suspect you could do an entire 15-cache "campaign" over a weekend, etc.).

Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 21:46:50


Post by: master of ordinance


 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.


So, we will never see them then as GW made this a limited run thing.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 21:48:52


Post by: Kanluwen


 master of ordinance wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.


So, we will never see them then as GW made this a limited run thing.

I would suggest paying attention to the Community page. Atia made a comment today that it seems like we'll be seeing more but keep an eye out.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 21:51:30


Post by: master of ordinance


 Kanluwen wrote:
 master of ordinance wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably not. It's in the book.

The Guard don't have access to Photo Visors from what I remember. They were fairly cheap though.

Also, the Lasgun is king for reliability. Most guns are a 4+/5+ for Ammo rolls.

Lasgun is 3+.

Ogryn, as Specialist Operatives, can take any of the Ogryn options. They start with Ripper Guns and Flak Armor but can be given Carapace Armor, Grenadier Gauntlets+Slabshields, Mauls+Bucklers.

Scions are Specialist Operatives and can basically take whatever you can dream of from their lists.

Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.


So, we will never see them then as GW made this a limited run thing.

I would suggest paying attention to the Community page. Atia made a comment today that it seems like we'll be seeing more but keep an eye out.

This requires me to have faith in GW


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 22:01:01


Post by: Kanluwen


Whatever. Complain all you want, I guess.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/02 22:11:33


Post by: oldzoggy


 Elbows wrote:

Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.


Jup this game appears to be more fun if you play it with the lower power gangs such as guards if you ask me. But this might just be my personal preference, and it doesn't really mater since GW gives us the option to start with them if we want to : )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 master of ordinance wrote:

This requires me to have faith in GW


lol do you really think that they would pass on a good chance to make money by investing in a proven popular product.
You can count on those rules to be released sometime in the near future, but you might have to buy the book ; )


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 15:16:12


Post by: Gobbla


 Elbows wrote:
Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.

Necromunda gangs were organic to their "environment." The entire game was build around advancing the gangs from pups to Top Dogs. Actual fighting was something done between licking wounds, working territories, advancing stats and skills, and buying goodies. Lot's of lifestyle stuff between games. Some loved it. Others, not so much.

SW:A is focused on a kill team. A military or quasi-military unit in battle.

How that plays out, I don't know. I will say one thing for it. I can make a Genestealer Cult kill team within minutes. With a rule book and six pages of team info. And, I would know what I have and how to use it. I think it would take me a lot longer to make a Genestealer Cult Army with the codex, data faxes, rule book, and psychic cards and Formations, etc. The only time I tried (using the GSC Deathwatch: Overkill formation), it took 30 minutes for three of us to figure out how to add another 100 pts. to the formation (ended up needing the AM codex). C'mon, Man!


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 15:30:24


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 Kanluwen wrote:
Whatever. Complain all you want, I guess.
Knowing the posting patterns of the particular nmposter, they will. About everything.

At this point, I am considering selling off the book for half the price of the boxed set. But I really want to make small kill teams out of my Skitarii and Space Marines. Have we seen anything about the non-Codex Space Marines?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 15:31:01


Post by: AnomanderRake


I've been trying to write up a project not unlike Shadow Wars (though more based on Mordheim than Necromunda, so simpler ranged stats, hero/trooper divide, non-random skills, etc.), and to my mind the basic issue is that GW is trying to stick too closely to normal 40k in models/stats/etc.

Starting with models that would be absurdly high-quality for Necromunda is sort of essential if you're going to allow basically anything non-human, but the beauty of using a smaller, more constrained system is that you can use more of the stat range since you aren't trying to simulate such a wide range of things. In 40k a 'human' or an 'Eldar' is always S/T3, and a 'Space Marine' or a 'Necron Warrior' is always S/T4, but that's because once you get to S/T5 that's a Daemon Prince, S/T6 is a Greater Daemon or an XV-10 suit, and S/T8 is pushing towards Gargantuan Creature territory. Without the really big things clogging up the top of the scale you can make different assumptions about the 'normal' range of stats, let more things have multiple wounds, let higher stats exist, etc.

That said it does open the simple/straightforward doors to the RPG-campaign small-unit mechanism very quickly and with extra detail on top of what KT and HoR would offer, and less bookkeeping than my approach, so I'm not going to casually dismiss it without a chance to play it first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
...Have we seen anything about the non-Codex Space Marines?


Don't they just have variant skill list distribution?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 16:19:15


Post by: Crablezworth


Cautiously optimistic



The problem for me is still that, at the end of the day bodies with a decent ranged gun seems to be the way to go, it's more detailed than kill team but shooting still seems to come before combat in relevance. There's a lot of weaponry that is -2 or -3 to armour, so much that elite lists don't benefit too much from their armour IMO, just their choice of weaponry. Chaos space marines will likely see everyone going tzeentch for the 5+ inv, The other issue for me is there isn't a tonne of incentive's for unique builds. Some lists feel more finished or well rounded than others. Even tau seemed sorta short on wargear. The movement stuff from the sounds of it isn't really complete (as in vertical movement). I like the idea of campaign but randomizing mission seems kinda lame. Even subplots can't really save a terrible mission. If they actually support it and tweak factions it might enjoyable.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 19:13:34


Post by: Elbows


 Gobbla wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Part of the draw of Necromunda was the intentional piss poor nature of a starting gang. Most weapons were Strength 3 with poor save modifiers, most BS were 2 or 3, etc. Leadership was poor on most characters etc. I don't think I can see the same "character" applied to a generic Dire Avenger. I think the draw for SWA is going to lean more toward fun pick-up games with less real attention to developing a long-term gang. I know some folks who played Necromunda campaigns for months or years - I'll be curious if people do the same with SWA. I'm hopeful, but I think the consumers will be creating the real content for this game if future releases don't add to it.

Necromunda gangs were organic to their "environment." The entire game was build around advancing the gangs from pups to Top Dogs. Actual fighting was something done between licking wounds, working territories, advancing stats and skills, and buying goodies. Lot's of lifestyle stuff between games. Some loved it. Others, not so much.

SW:A is focused on a kill team. A military or quasi-military unit in battle.

How that plays out, I don't know. I will say one thing for it. I can make a Genestealer Cult kill team within minutes. With a rule book and six pages of team info. And, I would know what I have and how to use it. I think it would take me a lot longer to make a Genestealer Cult Army with the codex, data faxes, rule book, and psychic cards and Formations, etc. The only time I tried (using the GSC Deathwatch: Overkill formation), it took 30 minutes for three of us to figure out how to add another 100 pts. to the formation (ended up needing the AM codex). C'mon, Man!


Yep, precisely my point. The aim of the game is quite different - despite rules being shared between the two. I think as long as you don't expect it to be Necromunda, you'll enjoy it. It's definitely going to be hugely different with 40K models/Kill teams involved. For good or for worse? Who knows. I think it's a brilliant starter product. I have some issues with some design decisions but I think GW is being careful here - not make the intro game so good that no one ever wants to go into 40K. That can be a double edged sword. There were loads of people back in the day who played Warhammer Quest or Necromunda, or Mordheim...and didn't play any of the "army" games.

With a really good skirmish game...I've little to no interest in army games. I enjoy the occasional WW2 game or 40K game...but really you can get heavily into/enjoying a skirmish game, to the exclusion of everything else. GW needs to avoid that somehow. Perhaps they hope that people who don't collect armies will at least collect 4-5-6 killteams (and spend around the same cash - or buy terrain, etc.). Much as you see a lot of people who went to Kill team games or Combat Patrol games, I think this kind of game scale suits a LOT of players far more than a 4 hour grind of 40K as it is now. You could see a whole load of people ditching 40K and concentrating on SWA if it's supported (and available...).


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 19:15:57


Post by: the_scotsman


I played half a dozen games during my normal game time on Sunday, and I have to say I'm incredibly impressed.

We used the quick-reference sheets, leaks and the new PDF as well as the old necromunda missions and skills (i'm told they're slightly modified, but they can't be by that much) and I got a chance to take GSC, Dark Eldar and Harlequins for a spin while my opponent played with Chaos Marines and IG Vets (though he bought them all carapace and hotshot packs and used Stormtrooper rules)

A couple tips: DO play with normal Necromunda levels of terrain. The game turns into an incredibly boring shoot-fest if you don't have decent amounts of terrain to use the Overwatch/Hide mechanic, which we learned when we played GSC vs IG and just had a normal 40k level of terrain scattered around.

That said, melee is definitely not unviable. by the last couple games, after I'd had a chance to get used to how melee armies worked I was able to really go to town with Harlequins and Dark Eldar. In particular I adore how Wyches work in this system, they are night and day from how they feel in 40k - deadly and relatively numerous and packing a huge variety of crazy weaponry. For reference, a basic wych with a pistol added on costs only 5 points more than a GSC neophyte with a lasgun. Melee power being more reliably impacted by Weapon Skill than attacks, and charge range being a set 12" move made a huge difference in the relative power of wyches. And easy access to weapons that boost my strength? Actual armor piercing options? Oh mama. The wyches totally tore the Tempestus apart and fought an incredibly close game with the Chaos Marines, winning by basically hiding from the marines and tearing up the cultists until they failed bottle.



[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 19:20:32


Post by: gummyofallbears


I played it and I really didn't like it. It felt clunky and ridiculous, might have been my opponent though. Basically my 5 chaos space marines were constantly pinned, and when they weren't pinned they were trying to contribute but failing as whenever they exposed themselves to shoot they would do nothing and then fall to the ground, either pinned or dead.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 19:22:48


Post by: Bobthehero


Well its like 40k, if you put terrain all over the place, you favor melee army, if you don't, you favor ranged armies. You have to find a balance.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 20:50:58


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 AnomanderRake wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
...Have we seen anything about the non-Codex Space Marines?


Don't they just have variant skill list distribution?
Maybe? I haven't seen any leaks for SM. I have kits from basically every SM group (BA, DW, SW, C:SM, GK). Being able to use them all would be really fun for me.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 21:00:27


Post by: oldzoggy


 Bobthehero wrote:
Well its like 40k, if you put terrain all over the place, you favor melee army, if you don't, you favor ranged armies. You have to find a balance.


Its not as simple as that. M values and I values also impact the effect of terrain a lot. Just spamming normal 40k ruins will not give you a fun game, due to the heavy cost of continuously having to move up and down.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/03 22:54:36


Post by: TheIronCrow


 Bobthehero wrote:
Well its like 40k, if you put terrain all over the place, you favor melee army, if you don't, you favor ranged armies. You have to find a balance.


Not really, you need ladders to climb up anything so you just overwatch a guy pointing at the ladder and the combat monsters like harlequins get knocked down before you rush him with plebs and do some Scottish karate.

And really if you're playing a dink who tries to game the system you just auto bottle out, take your cache and tell him to sod off. Our store came off with the simple system of DBAF. Don't be a and its worked great.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 15:21:51


Post by: ThisUsernameIsRandom


Ignore This:


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 16:24:18


Post by: McGibs


Also, remember that hiding is a thing. Creep forward and hide. Helps you not get shot.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 16:27:28


Post by: G00fySmiley


I was planning to use this as an excuse to start a small tzeench or nurgle demon army.... but they apparently are not there. might get some admech instead but a bit disappointed at lack of chaos


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 19:05:21


Post by: Crablezworth


I have a few major issues



1. The bottle test seems to pretty much ensure that games that are going well for you will be often cut short by your opponent bottling or choosing to fail.



2. Without much incentive to spread out and take ground, the psychology stuff doesn't work too well. So with few focal points, the need to spread out is sorta muted. The missions aren't great.



3. Terrain rules for verticality, c'mon guys.


The reality is, the game would actually work better in with corridor fighting ala zone mortalis. Playing it on old necormunda terrain actually made it worse, it was hard to check los and overwatch. So in theory if I'm enjoying myself and working towards my ultimate tactical takedown of my opponents kill team it can all be cut short, which honestly just makes me not want to play. Conversely the incentive to actually play or finish any battle is gone, if it's my interest to flee. At the end of the day, both players are playing from a gods eye view of the battlefield, so the psychology stuff like hiding only works so so.


I hated bottling in kill team, because more often than not I'd win games I should have lost and lost games I should have won.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 19:10:43


Post by: gnome_idea_what


Just a question from someone who's waiting on their copy of the rule book: how do orks play? Are they decent at melee? Can they spam hordes? Do their guns run out of ammo constantly?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 19:23:39


Post by: Elbows


Just from watching the few battle reports up, Orks benefit from numbers (able to take up to 20 models I believe) and are affected by ammo just like anyone else --- this is more dependent on the weapon itself than the race; everyone stands the same chance to roll a natural '6' when rolling to hit).

Melee, not so sure about...but more bodies is more bodies.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 19:54:09


Post by: Ruin


 Roknar wrote:
What do I think? I think GW can go feth themselves for making it a limited release...... seriously. I was looking forward to preordering it, aaaaaand it's gone -_-

*rant over*


It's like they're allergic to money or something...


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 21:30:26


Post by: Lord Bingo


 Crablezworth wrote:
I have a few major issues



1. The bottle test seems to pretty much ensure that games that are going well for you will be often cut short by your opponent bottling or choosing to fail.






I hated bottling in kill team, because more often than not I'd win games I should have lost and lost games I should have won.


I think the bottling is fine, it's there so you can bug out if you start taking a pounding. It's not fun in a campaign to be crippled from one bad game.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/04 22:46:21


Post by: GodDamUser


 Crablezworth wrote:
I have a few major issues



1. The bottle test seems to pretty much ensure that games that are going well for you will be often cut short by your opponent bottling or choosing to fail.



2. Without much incentive to spread out and take ground, the psychology stuff doesn't work too well. So with few focal points, the need to spread out is sorta muted. The missions aren't great.



3. Terrain rules for verticality, c'mon guys.



You obviously never played Necromunda.

But there is nothing stopping you setting up a zone mortis Style table and playing a game on this on there... (I am actually thinking of doing some games this way)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am so excite..

Have so many options to pick from..

Actually Tempted to do a Chaos Space marine list, but use the Deathwatch minis from Overkill (just wont use and cultists)


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 00:33:40


Post by: TheIronCrow


Bottling is there for people in campaigns. I'm on game 10 now and if you couldn't choose to bottle I would have had an entire team rolling on the serious injuries table.

Also sometimes your limping for a game after and you just need the 200pts to get yourself back up and running, so playing careful is required.

The game is meant for campaign play and I'm really enjoying it. You just have to get used to the idea of not throwing models to die and getting used to good models dying and you needing a few games to get them back.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 00:41:29


Post by: GodDamUser


One thing I did notice off about the CSM is some of their wargear options.. e.g.

Ammunition
Inferno bolts*..........................................................25 points
* Can be purchased for bolt pistols or boltguns only. Fighters
with the Mark of Tzeentch only.

The only models that can get marks are Specialists.. seems a bit pricey for a duder you are already using Cache for


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 09:14:37


Post by: nurgle5


GodDamUser wrote:One thing I did notice off about the CSM is some of their wargear options.. e.g.

Ammunition
Inferno bolts*..........................................................25 points
* Can be purchased for bolt pistols or boltguns only. Fighters
with the Mark of Tzeentch only.

The only models that can get marks are Specialists.. seems a bit pricey for a duder you are already using Cache for


Just FYI everyone on the Chaos Kill Team except for cultists get marks when you recruit them,

"The following special rule applies to all members of a Chaos Space Marines kill team, other than Chaos Cultists"


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 09:27:56


Post by: NivlacSupreme


GodDamUser wrote:
One thing I did notice off about the CSM is some of their wargear options.. e.g.

Ammunition
Inferno bolts*..........................................................25 points
* Can be purchased for bolt pistols or boltguns only. Fighters
with the Mark of Tzeentch only.

The only models that can get marks are Specialists.. seems a bit pricey for a duder you are already using Cache for


Can't everybody that isn't a cultist get a mark?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 10:44:40


Post by: GodDamUser


 nurgle5 wrote:
GodDamUser wrote:One thing I did notice off about the CSM is some of their wargear options.. e.g.

Ammunition
Inferno bolts*..........................................................25 points
* Can be purchased for bolt pistols or boltguns only. Fighters
with the Mark of Tzeentch only.

The only models that can get marks are Specialists.. seems a bit pricey for a duder you are already using Cache for


Just FYI everyone on the Chaos Kill Team except for cultists get marks when you recruit them,

"The following special rule applies to all members of a Chaos Space Marines kill team, other than Chaos Cultists"


technically not with how it is written

it is RAI that they do, but is worded bafly


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 11:00:48


Post by: nurgle5


GodDamUser wrote:


technically not with how it is written

it is RAI that they do, but is worded bafly


Perhaps the wording could have been clearer as there seems to be a surprising amount of confusion around it. But even RAW it looks apparent to me -- Every member of the Kill Team has the Marks of Chaos rule except cultists, every model with this rule picks a mark when you recruit them.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 15:38:13


Post by: Grimgold


Good news everybody, per this post it seems like we will get a digital version of the rules for sale today or tomorrow.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 19:25:48


Post by: supreme overlord


why cant I play as kabalite warriors? only wyches? *sad panda*


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 20:08:24


Post by: Grimgold


They said they are adding more armies, so I'd expect kabalites, Kroot, sisters of battle, to all be easy factions to crank out. They seem legitimately surprised at how well it's selling, Hell the faction bundles are selling out, and those are just boxes of models grouped together without a discount.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 20:43:12


Post by: master of ordinance


 Grimgold wrote:
They said they are adding more armies, so I'd expect kabalites, Kroot, sisters of battle, to all be easy factions to crank out. They seem legitimately surprised at how well it's selling, Hell the faction bundles are selling out, and those are just boxes of models grouped together without a discount.

Gamesworkshop being surprised that a product line is doing well does not equate Gamesworkshop doing something to promote/expand/update that line. We all remember how surprised they where with Cannoness Veridyan selling out in under a day and yet we have yet to see any Sisters of Battle releases, or even a hint or teaser.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 21:16:06


Post by: Grimgold


Models are harder than rules, even if they hopped on plastic sisters after Cannoness Veridyan sold out it may be years before they see shelf space in stores.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/05 21:39:59


Post by: Grot 6


The game is a beginning....

It is not a limited release, per say. That is probably only the boxed set. I expect them to crank out a couple hundred thousand more units when they see it take off like a wildfire.

As with all things GW, they take a good idea and step on their Johnson. I honestly can't give them gaff about it, now in that they are actually making attempts and not trying to honestly !@#t on their customer base, as they have in the past couple of years. Knowing what I know about decision making, someone undershot the mark, and it was the "Safe call".

THIS game has so much potential that I am honestly feeling like I did when I bought my first box of 2d edition 40K, popped open the box and wet myself in the sheer number of things that came in it. THIS box- looks like the same feeling, but not as much stuff.

I have been waiting for this game since GW pulled that crap with the Inquisitor game.

As an addition to playing Only War, Black Crusade, Deathwatch, Rogue Trader- it is much the same as D and D figures does, and gives you an interesting modeling option for your RPG teams.

The future of this game is bright by the way, don't be discouraged with the stutter step beginnings.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 08:46:43


Post by: koooaei


That's basically necromundula. Which was fun.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 14:03:36


Post by: Roknar


Looks like I have to pick up my rant from earlier. I had preordered from Wayland Games and I just received an email that they had to cancel my pre-order. Apparently not even they were aware the this was a limited release. So I guess I won't be giving GW any money then.

I still can't believe they thought it was a good idea to make a dedicated 40k skirmish game a limited release. Guess it was too much common sense for GW to handle.
They also said that GW told them "No more box sets will be produced". So much for those hoping they would produce more.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 15:09:52


Post by: zerosignal


Me too Roknar, what a pain in the bum.

I can't even reserve a copy at my local GW, because Reasons.

It's complete clowncar.

Why in the name of the Emp can they not do some basic market research?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 15:17:04


Post by: Roknar


That doesn't even require market research imho lol. Smaller games (ie quicker), cheaper , same minis as 40k thus setting you up for that over time and better ability to forge the narrative. What DOESN'T make sense about setting up shadow war as a permanent addition to their line-up? Never mind their dipping into their competitors markets.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 15:21:39


Post by: Melissia


No Sisters of Battle, so it feels really lazy.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 15:24:32


Post by: Tactical_Spam


 Melissia wrote:
No Sisters of Battle, so it feels really lazy.


I don't think they are done adding armies in, but I don't expect Sisters to make it in soon because a metal model line and all.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 15:25:00


Post by: Melissia


 Grimgold wrote:
Models are harder than rules, even if they hopped on plastic sisters after Cannoness Veridyan sold out it may be years before they see shelf space in stores.

Or never. We've had rumors of plastic Sisters for longer than some of the posters here have been alive, and we've gotten nothing.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I don't think they are done adding armies in, but I don't expect Sisters to make it in soon because a metal model line and all.

That wouldn't stop a competent company from making rules to use in the mean time.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 15:45:43


Post by: Tactical_Spam


 Melissia wrote:
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I don't think they are done adding armies in, but I don't expect Sisters to make it in soon because a metal model line and all.

That wouldn't stop a competent company from making rules to use in the mean time.


Assuming they aren't doing just that right now.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 16:23:49


Post by: nurgle5


Tactical_Spam wrote:

Assuming they aren't doing just that right now.


And they did say their rules team are looking to expand the number of playable factions.

Roknar wrote:That doesn't even require market research imho lol. Smaller games (ie quicker), cheaper , same minis as 40k thus setting you up for that over time and better ability to forge the narrative. What DOESN'T make sense about setting up shadow war as a permanent addition to their line-up? Never mind their dipping into their competitors markets.


Gee Dubz definitely hedged their bets wrong on this one. I find it somewhat understandable give what Dreadfleet sales were like here - nearly 6 years on and that "limited edition" is still piled up in local games shops gathering (two thin) coats of dust.

But as a plan B they should have had a digital version of the core rules ready to go at the very least.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 16:53:40


Post by: master of ordinance


 Melissia wrote:
 Grimgold wrote:
Models are harder than rules, even if they hopped on plastic sisters after Cannoness Veridyan sold out it may be years before they see shelf space in stores.

Or never. We've had rumors of plastic Sisters for longer than some of the posters here have been alive, and we've gotten nothing.

But hey, we had some random sprue shown to us mid last year, not to mention the limited edition Cannoness and Celestine, and that must mean something right? ..... Right?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I don't think they are done adding armies in, but I don't expect Sisters to make it in soon because a metal model line and all.

That wouldn't stop a competent company from making rules to use in the mean time.

>Competent company
>Gamesworkshop

You can only choose one.

In all honesty as much as I love the SoB fluff and as much as I want them to be available in multi part plastic for something less than £5.55 a model I have reached the point where I doubt it will ever happen. After all, why update Sisters when Marines sell so well. People are obviously not interested in that extremely expensive faction that we do not promote or advertise at all, otherwise they would head to our web store instead of our brick stores and click on the obscure links that would allow them to spend £55+ on ten model units consisting of worn 1990's sculpts.
Clearly they have no fans unlike our heavily promoted, shoehorned into every bit of fluff, mary sue marines who are available in cheap multi part plastic with sculpts less than two years old and available in brick stores.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 17:17:13


Post by: Melissia


 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Assuming they aren't doing just that right now.
I'll believe they are when I can see the rules in front of my face after an official GW release. GW has a longer history of not giving a feth about Sisters than the length of time most posters on there have even collected at all; there's no reason to think they'll change that now. The new management hasn't given us anything that wasn't also given to every other Imperial army and there is zero reason to think that this will change any more than there was reason to think that after Jes Goodwin said seven years ago that the new plastic Sisters of Battle miniatures are "almost done!" that Jes wasn't lying out his ass. He was lying out his ass just like GW has done to us several other times, and instead we got nothing. So I'll wait and see instead of getting hyped up over nothing.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 17:39:09


Post by: oldzoggy


Could we steer away from sisters please. Feel free to make your own thread about how unfair things are for them but please do not hijack this thread.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 17:42:46


Post by: Melissia


No.

It's relevant to this game, since this game is apparently lacking them and there's no reason they should be excluded.

The OP asked for my opinion of the game so I'm gonna freaking give it, and this strongly impacts my opinion of the game.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 17:48:25


Post by: Grimgold


Just watched MWG latest batrep for SW:A, Grey knights vs. genestealer cult, more excited than ever to play this game. Matt from MWG said he is not a fan of the campaign rules, but I actually like simple. The system in place in SW:A there are competing priorities, hoard your promethium to win the league or spend it to be more dangerous in the game. Especially with leagues with a buy in I expect there to be quite a few hoarders, trying to get the payout.

**Edit** SoB (an amusingly on point acronym) aren't in the game. Clogging page after page of this thread with them would be like discussing "the bears" in a thread about Manchester united


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 17:54:59


Post by: G00fySmiley


take it with a grain of salt, but rumour is stand alone rulbook in digital form will be released this weekend, keep an eye out on blacklibrary or app stores for the ebook


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 18:57:28


Post by: Manchu


We know further Shadow Wars lists will be available - here's hoping Sister will be among them, along with Chaos Daemons, Storm Scions, the Inquisition, Kroot, Cult Mechanicum, Thousand Sons, Deathwatch, etc, etc, etc - even including full-fledged Space Marines for crying out loud!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.
wait what

Why?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 19:45:47


Post by: Kanluwen


Manchu wrote:
We know further Shadow Wars lists will be available - here's hoping Sister will be among them, along with Chaos Daemons, Storm Scions, the Inquisition, Kroot, Cult Mechanicum, Thousand Sons, Deathwatch, etc, etc, etc - even including full-fledged Space Marines for crying out loud!

I really hope Daemons never get lists.

Daemons are a pain in the butt for normal games, much less this setup.


 Kanluwen wrote:
Commissars were something I glossed over. Hate 'em, don't care about 'em.
wait what

Why?

Because I don't feel like Commissars really belong these days?
GW has written themselves into a corner, fluff and crunchwise, where they for whatever reason act like Commissars are better than proper officers.

Look at the Scions and their book/collections. You can field ZERO formations of these guys who are purportedly highly loyal, highly motivated, and damn near fanatical to the Imperial Creed without a Commissar babysitter.
Look at Guard and their stuff. Commissars get peddled in the Start Collecting sets for both Scions and Guard proper. Commissars get put into this instead of a Veteran Sergeant as a standalone Specialist Operative--or hell, a "Marbo"-esque Veteran could have taken the place of the dumb Commissar.

When you're talking about all the variety of Regiments and the like, I'm sure some will need Commissars and have loyalty issues or whatever. But really it boils down to Commissars are an outmoded concept given what we've had added fluffwise for Guard themselves.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 19:57:33


Post by: Manchu


 Kanluwen wrote:
I really hope Daemons never get lists.
Agree to disagree. The more the merrier.
 Kanluwen wrote:
You can field ZERO formations of these guys who are purportedly highly loyal, highly motivated, and damn near fanatical to the Imperial Creed without a Commissar babysitter..
I see where you are coming from but I don't think the presence of Commissars is strictly tied to some special suspicion about a formation's loyalty. Of course, the Imperium is endlessly paranoid so yes every single subject's loyalty is constantly in question. But I don't think Commissars hang out with Storm Scions because Storm Scions are just as likely to have morale/loyalty issues as say, Catachans or whoever. My impression is, Commissars are just part and parcel of the bureaucratic/logistical nightmare of overriding and undercutting authority that seems to plague every Imperial institution. I figure Storm Scions look at Commissars more like how SM look at Chaplains, as opposed to how dirtbag regiments often fear and hate their Commissars. After all, Storm Scions and Commissars are cut from the same cloth, ideologically.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 20:01:29


Post by: Kanluwen


Then Commissars should be "0-1", like Chaplains are.

They're not. They're mandatory, in addition to a Scion Command Squad.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 20:05:30


Post by: Manchu


 Kanluwen wrote:
Then Commissars should be "0-1", like Chaplains are.

They're not. They're mandatory, in addition to a Scion Command Squad.
Nah, I didn't say that Commissars serve the same purpose for Storm Scions as Chaplains do for SM - I said, Storm Scions probably look at Commissars more like SM look at Chaplains, as opposed to fearing and hating them like scummier regiments do. Makes perfect sense to me that they are mandatory for Storm Scion lists - after all, who do you think keeps the Storm Scion's morale so high and constantly feeds the fires of their zealotry?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 22:07:07


Post by: Tactical_Spam


How am I supposed to use my Ciaphus Cain (Hero of the Imperium) model if they didn't include Commissars?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 22:30:48


Post by: master of ordinance


As an offshoot:
How exactly do Commissars work in Shadow wars?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/06 22:33:16


Post by: NivlacSupreme


 master of ordinance wrote:
As an offshoot:
How exactly do Commissars work in Shadow wars?


If somebody is pinned, the entire team is executed.



[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/07 00:56:55


Post by: Kanluwen


 Tactical_Spam wrote:
How am I supposed to use my Ciaphus Cain (Hero of the Imperium) model if they didn't include Commissars?

The same way Cain actually works:

Running the other way?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 master of ordinance wrote:
As an offshoot:
How exactly do Commissars work in Shadow wars?

In what regard?

You "buy" them with Promethium Caches. But Scions or Ogryn are far better choices.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/07 02:01:14


Post by: oldzoggy


 NivlacSupreme wrote:
 master of ordinance wrote:
As an offshoot:
How exactly do Commissars work in Shadow wars?


If somebody is pinned, the entire team is executed.



You just made my day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are kinda bad in the game. Since you do not buy them but hire them for 1 match with a Promethium Caches so they are really expensive and they are kinda sucky / a waste of resources. For comparison eldar can get an fully kitted autarg for the same cost and others can get a Terminator


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/07 02:10:47


Post by: GodDamUser


Just use the Cain model as the squad leader =D


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/07 02:41:27


Post by: Grimgold


So Just got a couple of games in, it's fun and super chaotic. My first game was with Necrons against guard, everybody had red dots, so it was weird being outshot by guardsman, but it happened. Fortunately, my death mark took out his commander, before getting merced himself, and I ground out the win by being tougher and hitting harder when I did hit. The second fight was my chaos vs orks, some ineffective shooting. The battle was decided with a Nob and Aspiring champion duel, with the charge going to aspiring champion who put the nob down.This earned an immediate advancement, which turned out to be the assault one that removed the bonus for multiple enemies taking him on, which was exactly what Khorne ordered since I immediately got into combat with two other orks, and put them down as well.

Fun and very chaotic, after seeing the kit other factions could get I kind of wish the necrons had more interesting stuff.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 04:38:16


Post by: Tsol


Gosh Darnit why have the rules not been posted!? I had to work today and couldn't wait outside my local GW to nab one. Heck, I even called on my lunch to see if one could be set aside, be he told me they sold out as there was 7 people lined up before opening to buy the darn things.

The first thing I was going to do with my is take pictures of the rulebook and put them up on 4chan, BOLS and here. Yet no one has done it*. What's the hold up? Its not violating anything as GW has stated on their website they're going to put up the rules in about a week or so.

*Still looking, may have missed it.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 04:48:54


Post by: Manchu


 Tsol wrote:
Its not violating anything as GW has stated on their website they're going to put up the rules in about a week or so.
First, that's not how copyright works. Second, the digital rules will be posted for sale. Third, you can find some preview pics from the rulebook throughout the news & rumors thread.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 05:11:15


Post by: gummyofallbears


Played more today and I love it.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 05:16:00


Post by: Grimgold


Yeah, I was also expecting that they would release the digital rulebook for sale this weekend, but I'm guessing they didn't want to risk sandbagging the physical box sales. Not much of a risk considering things have been sold out for over a week now, but still a small kindness to brick and mortar stores. Also next week people can start selling GW products online again, which will be pretty crazy, so expect this to be the quiet before the storm.

*edit* my bad it's in may so a month to go.
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/games-workshop?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Games+Workshop+Coming+Soon+Mar-2017


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 06:32:02


Post by: Manchu


Local WH store manager told me that digital rules will be available next week.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 11:22:37


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 oldzoggy wrote:
Wait you guys actually found the rules for bunker doors ? There are rules for hitting and attacking terrain but we found non for the terrain themselves.


Page 49:
Note that the following rules can only be used as described in the missions or under special conditions if agreed by both players"


The Hit and Run scenario (p92) and the Raid scenario (p94) both specify a terrain piece that can be targeted as part of the mission. Outside of those, it's up to you to define which pieces of terrain can be targeted and what their characteristics should be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Examples could include having barrels be filled with volatile toxic waste (T6, 1 Wound, centre a Frag Grenade explosion on the barrel if destroyed), specify some walkways as fragile (T6, 1 Wound per 1" of length), allow locked doors to be targeted (T4, 2W, perhaps?), etc. It depends on your terrain collection, so it's impossible to specify in the rules.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 21:25:16


Post by: Blacksails


The Guard rules are only available in the box set, correct?

Why didn't they just throw them in with the free (and awesome) PDF on their website?

Does anyone know of somewhere I can peruse the Guard rules?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/09 22:22:06


Post by: Manchu


Some of the rules have been posted in photos in the N&R thread.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 00:04:21


Post by: BomBomHotdog


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/09/shadow-war-armageddon-the-rules-available-soon/

GW is going to release the main book on its own. Pre-orders start next week and will go for at least 2.

Not content just to make the book a copy of the one that appears in the boxed game, though, they have also added in all the extra content too: all the factions that have had their rules published as PDFs will be included. And, following numerous requests we’ve received from the community (that’s you), we’ll be adding in two new factions – the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas and warbands from the Inquisition.


The fact the PDFs will be printed into the book annoys me as I had pre-ordered the main set. (new terrain is awesome btw)


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 03:25:08


Post by: Grimgold


They are also adding Sisters of Battle and inquisition kill teams. I'm excited that the sisters of battle will get some love and hopeful that it might cool some of the ire on the board regarding the game. I hope we see more campaigns in the future, maybe a Damocles gulf campaign, or Octarius War, with less generic campaign rules.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 06:14:35


Post by: Stormonu


I just picked up my copy earlier today, spend the time getting it all put together, hoping for a basic game on Monday.

I was a bit surprised to see that 99% of the game is a cut-and-paste of the Necromunda rules with "Space Marine Scouts" replacing Orlocks, and "Orks" replacing Goliaths. I noticed it when I was doing a word-for-word comparison of the "Getting started" sheet that comes with SW:A.

Funny thing is, I have an original copy of Necromunda and never got to actually play it. I'm curious to see how it goes down, but I am concerned about GW's penchant for "Roll a 1 and die!" that is in an awful lot of the rules.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 06:44:58


Post by: Fafnir


 Grimgold wrote:
They are also adding Sisters of Battle and inquisition kill teams. I'm excited that the sisters of battle will get some love and hopeful that it might cool some of the ire on the board regarding the game. I hope we see more campaigns in the future, maybe a Damocles gulf campaign, or Octarius War, with less generic campaign rules.


I just hope the rules for Inquisitional warbands are not as awful their rules in Codex: Imperial Agents.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 06:54:37


Post by: nateprati


Muh dudes, muh Bros
Sisters will be added. The real question is how will you model upgrades on those beautiful vintage metal models of ours?

Also commissars are tight. We are talking about billions of people in an age where it is mandatory to die for a corpse on a throne on a planet far far away. Of course we need military police to strike fear in to mere humans. The fanatics are higher up, us foot soldiers need a nazi looking officer to hold it all together.

Shadow wars looks really good for campaign. Most 40k games are pick up and so was kill team. This is the first time I really felt like getting to know my own minis individually. I want all factions in specially demons. Who would my space nuns be without demons to kill?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 07:09:39


Post by: Gargantuan


I can't find any printable roster sheets. Has anyone made one or is there an official one I haven't found?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 07:19:51


Post by: 455_PWR


It's awesome, especially for those of us who love conversions. Rules are pretty simple, games are quick, storyline driven, wounds matter, and it's nice to see each mini matter, rather than rolling dice and romoving models like their death didnt matter in a large battle.

Now I can break out my imperial guard, tau, eldar, de, chaos, necron, etc minis and bits I had bought but never made armies for. I can cut, chop, and convert away until I have an awesome unique kill team of less than 10 models.

Kudos gw... kudos. I have found my 40k replacement.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 14:02:05


Post by: master of ordinance


Well, I just dug out my Rogue Trader era Eldar. Time to make a kill team.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 14:43:00


Post by: nurgle5


455_PWR wrote:Now I can break out my imperial guard, tau, eldar, de, chaos, necron, etc minis and bits I had bought but never made armies for. I can cut, chop, and convert away until I have an awesome unique kill team of less than 10 models.


It is really gratifying to work on such a small amount of miniatures, to have each one put a bit of personality on display.

Because of this I'm really tempted to put my GS Cultist Kill Team on the 32mm sector imperialis bases because they suit Hive scum perfectly imho, and since there's only going to be about 15 of them I can afford to a bit extra scenic with the bases.

On the flipside, I might eventually like to expand the gang into a small 40k IG/GSC army, in which case the 32mm bases are probably too big.

Gargantuan wrote:I can't find any printable roster sheets. Has anyone made one or is there an official one I haven't found?


There's one at the back of the SW:A rulebook, but I don't think it is available online (yet). Necromunda roster sheets should be fine in the meantime


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 15:16:35


Post by: Stormonu


I miss the days when you use to get a pad of roster sheets with a game.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 15:31:54


Post by: AndrewGPaul


[img]https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2017/4/9/c37d588b4a4fb761fed481d8f8e07771_62705.jpg
[/img]

Here you go.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/10 15:35:15


Post by: Jambles


Got together with a couple of friends yesterday to try out the game and we had a blast.

The rules are great, lots of flavour. They are just detailed enough to hold your interest while being just succinct enough not to get boring. As has been mentioned before, the games themselves play out quickly and cleanly. The campaign rules are lightweight but it does add a sense of grand strategy and consequence to each game.

I love how much character they've added to things you wouldn't expect. For example, my friend who plays Imperial Guard is very happy about the rules for lasguns - despite still being relatively weak, they have the distinction of being the most reliable gun in the game by a long shot. How cool is that? Even Bolters have a low chance to fail or run out of ammo - lasguns will pretty much always get to keep shooting, just like they're supposed to! Meanwhile, Ork guns don't just have a much higher chance to run out of ammo than most guns, but they might even explode in your face! I love little flavourful things like that, especially when it's married to mechanics that actually make the game more interesting, like having a purpose for every weapon beyond just being weaker or stronger.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/11 09:00:25


Post by: danyboy


I love how BoltPistols and Heavy Bolters are useful again! (compared to standard 40k game). And Chainswords now smashing throughg armour! That is simply amazing!


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/11 15:04:01


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


After getting Shadow War early my group has had tons of games now, and I will only say here what I say elsewhere...

IF your group wants to make this a really fun, long-term campaign, do yourselves a favor and bolt on the Necromunda campaign.

We've been playing the Shadow-War rules as they're the most tweaked/perfected Necromunda incarnation yet, but we added back in their entirety the Territories/EXP/Rare Trade/Injury mechanics and they slotted in PERFECTLY.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/11 15:17:36


Post by: RooT


 Gargantuan wrote:
I can't find any printable roster sheets. Has anyone made one or is there an official one I haven't found?


If you're looking for an easy way to build lists and get overviews of items and character, BattleScribe just released their Shadow Wars: Armageddon data files, you just need to get them manually since it's not on automatic download

Pretty decent with only a few holes at the moment (such as the eldar heavy weapon platform options for a specialist gunner)


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/11 17:56:15


Post by: the_scotsman


 Tsol wrote:
Gosh Darnit why have the rules not been posted!? I had to work today and couldn't wait outside my local GW to nab one. Heck, I even called on my lunch to see if one could be set aside, be he told me they sold out as there was 7 people lined up before opening to buy the darn things.

The first thing I was going to do with my is take pictures of the rulebook and put them up on 4chan, BOLS and here. Yet no one has done it*. What's the hold up? Its not violating anything as GW has stated on their website they're going to put up the rules in about a week or so.

*Still looking, may have missed it.


Get Necromunda 2nd Ed Rulebook

Read up on the 3-4 rules changes between that and SWA

????

Profit.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/11 18:13:02


Post by: Turmo


I have played a lot of Necromunda and now a couple of SWA games. Rules work generally well, but there seem to be some problems as written.

* Red-dot laser sight gives a 6+ invulnerable save, and in SWA you can only roll armor save or invulnerable save. This of course makes red-dot must have for everyone as it usually just gives +1 to hit. We played it like in Necro, it's an extra save.

* Plasma weapons don't seem to have any drawbacks on full power, only double ones in ammo roll does something bad (0,46% chance).

* Some results in Hunt in Prometheum Sprawl are way too common as both players roll it.

* Injury table is a joke, you get bonuses half of the time from it.

Of course we can just use the Necromunda rules and patch this thing up. But it's a shame that you have to do something like that to get a working game.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/11 19:23:13


Post by: Bobthehero


Well the red dot rule is kinda stupid, considering red dot sights don't put little lasers on their targets, nor would the laser be really obvious.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/11 22:26:48


Post by: GodDamUser


Turmo wrote:
I have played a lot of Necromunda and now a couple of SWA games. Rules work generally well, but there seem to be some problems as written.

* Red-dot laser sight gives a 6+ invulnerable save, and in SWA you can only roll armor save or invulnerable save. This of course makes red-dot must have for everyone as it usually just gives +1 to hit. We played it like in Necro, it's an extra save.

* Plasma weapons don't seem to have any drawbacks on full power, only double ones in ammo roll does something bad (0,46% chance).

* Some results in Hunt in Prometheum Sprawl are way too common as both players roll it.

* Injury table is a joke, you get bonuses half of the time from it.

Of course we can just use the Necromunda rules and patch this thing up. But it's a shame that you have to do something like that to get a working game.


yeah fair enough on the red sight giving an extra save.. but with the amount of higher saves in this incarnation.. I think a extra save can be a bit much for when you managed to hurt that CSM

The Injury table is small for two reasons... 1 'Streamlines' the game, 2 they removed all the long term neg stats and once you do that from the Necro table there isn't a lot left so I think the 6 works fine..


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 01:53:39


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


My assessment of this, after playing 2-3 dry runs.

1- The whole rule about not being able to spend more than 100 points on a new member of the unit is dumb- because of this, Grey Knights can't put another member of their squad into their team. We got around this by dictating that if you burn a Promethium cache for the extra 100, you can buy someone that costs more than 100 points.

2- Quite a few of the rules need to be clarified, and I hope the next rulebook is more clear. Especially things like the HVT mission where you must designate a member of the enemy team, but you can't do this without letting your enemy know. (We got around this by letting people know if you drew this mission, you had to nominate the HVT, whether it was the objective or not). Also, only Orks and Space Marine scouts have 'caps' on the number of people that can be on their kill-team- I see nothing for Chaos Marines on this.

3- The terrain is very cool, but you are gonna want a lot more. A LOT more. If this is anything like Necromunda, you will want to make it damned near claustrophobic. Without a good chunk of cover to move around, your dudes are going to get splattered.

4- Seems like the Imperial Guard is OP. The handful of guard players we have aren't really much in the way of 'elite' players, but they managed to dominate the board pretty quickly. Plus, I kind of draw the line at a regular lasgun shot knocking down a Space Marine (or an autopistol, for that matter).

5- It IS a lot of fun, and it gets pretty hot pretty quick. You have to be cunning and dirty. I really love playing the game.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Well the red dot rule is kinda stupid, considering red dot sights don't put little lasers on their targets, nor would the laser be really obvious.


Yeah, if it were a floating red dot sight- that's what it'd do. If it's an actual laser- then I'd say it should only grant this bonus at close range and only then offer that bonus to the target.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:06:25


Post by: GodDamUser


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

1- The whole rule about not being able to spend more than 100 points on a new member of the unit is dumb- because of this, Grey Knights can't put another member of their squad into their team. We got around this by dictating that if you burn a Promethium cache for the extra 100, you can buy someone that costs more than 100 points.

2- Quite a few of the rules need to be clarified, and I hope the next rulebook is more clear. Especially things like the HVT mission where you must designate a member of the enemy team, but you can't do this without letting your enemy know. (We got around this by letting people know if you drew this mission, you had to nominate the HVT, whether it was the objective or not). Also, only Orks and Space Marine scouts have 'caps' on the number of people that can be on their kill-team- I see nothing for Chaos Marines on this.

3- The terrain is very cool, but you are gonna want a lot more. A LOT more. If this is anything like Necromunda, you will want to make it damned near claustrophobic. Without a good chunk of cover to move around, your dudes are going to get splattered.

4- Seems like the Imperial Guard is OP. The handful of guard players we have aren't really much in the way of 'elite' players, but they managed to dominate the board pretty quickly. Plus, I kind of draw the line at a regular lasgun shot knocking down a Space Marine (or an autopistol, for that matter).

5- It IS a lot of fun, and it gets pretty hot pretty quick. You have to be cunning and dirty. I really love playing the game.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Well the red dot rule is kinda stupid, considering red dot sights don't put little lasers on their targets, nor would the laser be really obvious.


Yeah, if it were a floating red dot sight- that's what it'd do. If it's an actual laser- then I'd say it should only grant this bonus at close range and only then offer that bonus to the target.


So..

1. That is the risk you run by having stronger guys like Grey Knights, Also note you can dump more than 1 Cache into recruitment.. i.e. running Warriors you have 3 duders win first game, get a lucky and 4 Caches.. dump them all be at max unit size for rest of the campaign (on the basis no one dies)

2. This is also partly why you are meant to name your duders, then you can write down on a piece of paper the duder you wanted to target

3. Yes that is true.. do remember the Necro box didn't come with enough on its own as well

4. Not really.. they are weak and break easily. They do have the number advantage though.



But yes Red Dot Sight is poorly named.. but it is actually a laser sight, the idea of the save is that the target noticed the Red Dot at the last moment and ducks


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:12:14


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


GodDamUser wrote:
1. That is the risk you run by having stronger guys like Grey Knights, Also not you can dump more than 1 Cache into recruitment.. i.e. running Warriors you have 3 duders win first game, get a lucky and 4 Caches.. dump them all be at max unit size for rest of the campaign (on the basis no one dies)


Yeah, sorry this is dumb.

Miniwargaming even gamed around this. Because of this rule, Scouts are just going to dominate the campaigns. More GW Space Marine fanboyism.

There IS a way for you to get 150 points to spend at a time, but it's 'random'.

Either way, I stacked my list with 5 Legionnaires for the campaign's first game. Just in case someone whines.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:20:42


Post by: GodDamUser


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Yeah, sorry this is dumb.

Miniwargaming even gamed around this. Because of this rule, Scouts are just going to dominate the campaigns. More GW Space Marine fanboyism.

There IS a way for you to get 150 points to spend at a time, but it's 'random'.

Either way, I stacked my list with 5 Legionnaires for the campaign's first game. Just in case someone whines.


I meant to say 'Note' not 'Not' before and edited but obviously not before you saw it.

But in the Campaign at my flgs there was 1 person running Scouts out of 12 people

it was actually a decent mix going on



[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:24:27


Post by: Wolf_in_Human_Shape


Fugly looking models may help keep the player count down for scouts.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:25:59


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


GodDamUser wrote:
I meant to say 'Note' not 'Not' before and edited but obviously not before you saw it.

But in the Campaign at my flgs there was 1 person running Scouts out of 12 people

it was actually a decent mix going on



Ah, yeah- I see that. I'm looking at page 115 in the rule book now. Basically you get your 'supply drop' of 100 points, your 'recruitment funds' of 100 points, and if you need to buy more stuff you burn a Promethium cache and you have 100 'bonus points'.

The other issue people are having is that you can't have a 'storage' for gear you're not fielding. We figured a way around this one- if you have a 'storage' for your gear, you go into the pot to be raided. Teams without a 'gear cache' can't be raided. We thought that would be a fun way to shake things up.

Edit: And our IG guys are laying waste to everything. TBH, I kind of wish they'd have taken the opportunity to make Scions a full-fledged troop type that you could use, and make lasguns and autoguns unable to knock certain units down.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Fugly looking models may help keep the player count down for scouts.


LOL

Seriously, every scout looks like he's passing a kidney stone or passing a deuce in his fatigues.

I haven't messed with scout models for a bit- can you plop regular marine heads on them? If so, I think Black Templar scouts would look good with these dozens of Deathwatch hooded heads I've got.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:37:02


Post by: GodDamUser


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

And our IG guys are laying waste to everything. TBH, I kind of wish they'd have taken the opportunity to make Scions a full-fledged troop type that you could use, and make lasguns and autoguns unable to knock certain units down.


I haven't messed with scout models for a bit- can you plop regular marine heads on them? If so, I think Black Templar scouts would look good with these dozens of Deathwatch hooded heads I've got.


What has he taken for his guard?


Also Yes you can on scouts and they look awesome.. know a guy who just got a 10th company army.. all with marines helments


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:45:05


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


GodDamUser wrote:

What has he taken for his guard?


A couple of snipers (our boards tend to have a couple of good crows' nests) and a grenadier tends to be the majority of what I see.

One of our 'competitive' players tends to use the snipers and keep everything back and force you to come to him, by laying his entire squad in overwatch and refusing to move. On the missions where your objective is to drive off the other team, this is his preferred tactic.



[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 02:53:58


Post by: GodDamUser


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
GodDamUser wrote:

What has he taken for his guard?


A couple of snipers (our boards tend to have a couple of good crows' nests) and a grenadier tends to be the majority of what I see.

One of our 'competitive' players tends to use the snipers and keep everything back and force you to come to him, by laying his entire squad in overwatch and refusing to move. On the missions where your objective is to drive off the other team, this is his preferred tactic.



So sounds like you guys are not playing with enough terrain to start with.

But if they are grouped, just pop a duder to force ld checks fro his duders close by.. remember broken units count towards bottle numbers

What are you using for your list?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 03:01:02


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


GodDamUser wrote:


What are you using for your list?


For this list? If I can remember off the top of my head... (i've made a few edits and don't have my book handy- so this may not be 100%)

Chaos Space Marines.

Leader: "Alpharius" - Undivided Mark, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, frag grenades, combat blade.

Trooper: "Alpharius" - Undivided Mark, Bolter, Combat Blade, frag grenades, laser sight

Gunner: "Alpharius" - Undivided Mark, Heavy Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Combat Blade, Camo Gear.

Cultist Mook #1 with autogun and combat blade

Cultist Mook #2 with autogun and combat blade

Cultist Mook #3 with Autogun and Combat blade


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 03:14:32


Post by: GodDamUser


What really hurts CSM the most is that you cant have more cultists then Marines.. at the start

But once they have played 3 games... then the first thing you do is buy bulk cultists (can get two with in 100pts) drop a cache then that's 4 cultist with fails use them as meat shields to either get a charge in or just soak up overwatches

you can buy them guns at a latter date if you so choose


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 03:14:49


Post by: Fafnir


Yeah, just sounds like you need more terrain. You basically want enough terrain on the board that a model can reach decent cover starting from anywhere else on the board. Essentially, if you can go 6" or more (heaven forbid) without being able to reach some form of cover that blocks line of sight, you need more.

Basically, fill that board until you think there's way too much terrain, and then double it.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 06:58:59


Post by: Grimgold


In most armies, recruits are an investment that will collect dividends in the long term. After three missions they basically are upgraded for free to the stat line of your regular trooper, It's not a huge savings for most, but every little bit helps and the difference between a basic trooper and the recruit version is small. the two armies where that is not the case (Necrons and Chaos) have very different approaches to recruits.

Chaos is interesting, with the mix of cultist and Marines, It's like playing two separate forces on one list. No other faction really has that level of a dichotomy between their recruits and their troopers. The cultist aren't flashy, but are very efficeint points wise, which is a good compliment to the less efficent but overall much more capable Chaos marines.

Necrons on the other hand don't really like their recruits, warriors are stuck with inferior guns, inferior armor, and the inability to take wargear for three missions. Even after that they only have one set of skills. The 40 points of savings (130 vs 170) just doesn't seem to justify those downsides. Also Thanks to the all or nothing nature of recruitment (can't save leftover points) a new warrior with no gear has the same opportunity cost as a kitted out immortal. So It makes no sense to recruit them after the game starts. In my list I have three immortals, a death mark, and a single warrior because 5 is a magic number for bottle test and I wanted some gear to start with for my immortals.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 08:26:40


Post by: westiebestie


How many missions/scenarios are there in the book? (I'm buying it as soon as GW releases it separately) How are they and how much variation is there?

What's the playing time for 1000p?

Sounds like a fun game, gives me reason to paint up a few cultists for my CSMs.



[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 13:21:55


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 westiebestie wrote:
How many missions/scenarios are there in the book? (I'm buying it as soon as GW releases it separately) How are they and how much variation is there?

What's the playing time for 1000p?

Sounds like a fun game, gives me reason to paint up a few cultists for my CSMs.



6 missions total, one is more a consequence of having a guy go down and get captured.

But you also have 10 'sub-plots', which are sort of like Wild Cards that can affect the mission.

All the missions play a bit differently and will force you to get out of your element. For example, if you're relying on long-range firepower and sniping people, a couple of these missions will make you weep. They kind of force you to have a flexible, mobile team.

A word of advice on your cultists- at least paint their coats or something a different color. And be sure you invest in the rifle.

And how long do the games take? A game can end in turn 1 for the first player. There is no set amount of turns. You just go at it until someone bottles out or the mission is completed. A typical game for me is about 30 minutes.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 20:14:36


Post by: master of ordinance


Okay, so a couple of thoughts:
1) Eldar are, unsurprisingly, strong. Maybe not broken, but still very strong. In a game against Genestealer Cult I managed to wipe the floor with my opponent, despite not knowing my army very well, and my heavy spending half the game out of range because of that.
2) Melee is a high-risk high-reward gamble. On the one hand you have to be clever or you will be shot to hell before you make it in, on the other hand if you do make it in with a dedicated melee unit.... Lets just say my Exarch got me a lot of kills.
3) Unlike in Necromunda, there is a genuine reason to bring the big high powered guns. A Lascannon was overkill against most things you faced in Necromunda, but against a Marine, or a Terminator, you desperately need that extra punch to get through the armour.
4) Why the hell can Guard not take a Heavy Stubber? Or for that matter ANY Heavy Weapons?!


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 21:50:27


Post by: Manchu


Mind posting your Eldar list and, if possible, your buddy's GSC list? FYI - there have been complaints about GSC being weak.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 22:25:59


Post by: AndrewGPaul


My first game tonight. I used Guard - a Leader and a Veteran with shotguns, two fungs with lasguns and three specialists with plasma gun, grenade launcher (frags) and meltagun, against Harlequins. Mission was The Raid. He had all four Harlequins attacking, I had two defenders - my sergeant and my veteran guardsman. The sergeant was charged by a Harlequin, failed his fear test and ran away (only 5" or so, as he was on the upper level of a building. That put him into LOS of a second harlequin, who downed him with a burst of shuriken pistol fire. He was wounded, and then fell off the building, taking a second wound, leaving him Down on the ground.

In my first turn, a guardsman and plasma gunner arrived - on the edge opposite the Harlequins. They were out of range, so advanced towards the enemy. My sergeant lay bleeding, and the veteran went on to Overwatch.

The Harlequins advanced. The Overwatching guardsman fired, missed and was shot down. the Harlequin leader attempted to damage the Entrance, but failed to wound.

Next Guard turn, no reinforcements arrived. plasma gunner took out a Harlequin, the Down veteran recovered.

Next Harlequin turn 3. Harlequin leader causes a wound on the entrance, another Harlequin takes out the veteran. the others move into position.

Still no more guard reinforcements. Plasma gunner pins a Harlequin.

The leader is beaten up in melee by a Harlequin, while another one shoots down the plasma gunner. The Leader finally destroys the entrance.

Finally, more guard reinforcements; a new recruit and a meltagunner. The meltagunner avenges his plasma gun-wielding colleague. In their next turn, the Harlequins fail their Bottle test.

In the post-mission sequence, both sides gained 1 promethium cache and ended up with one model gaining Frenzy and another gaining Hatred. My sergeant gained What doesn't kill you ....

The Harlequin leader is now WS 7, and the meltagunner has Hipshooting. And I just now remembered I forgot to roll the sergeant's free advance...

In two editions of Necromunda I've never played The Raid. The Harlequins were lucky that they managed to outnumber the defenders at the beginning, but the increasing number of reinforcements finally turned the tide. You just need to keep pouring on fire. shotguns using blastshot are much better than they ever were in Necromunda (although I didn't actually hit anything with them in this game ... )


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 23:49:33


Post by: Gobbla


Manchu wrote:
Mind posting your Eldar list and, if possible, your buddy's GSC list? FYI - there have been complaints about GSC being weak.

Waited over 2 decades for official GSC gang/team rules. All I have to show for it is a Delaque gang in Flak Armor with no Juves, but some GSC Acolytes and Purestrain "Hired Guns." OK weapons, limited gear. NOT complaining, but not overwhelmed, either. Especially in a War with teams that are specialized, well armed, and well armored. Maybe the cheap replacement and recruit costs will come into play decisively over time. But, I can see how GSC would struggle out of the gate.

Gonna go against Astra Militarium tomorrow. My best guess:

Leader with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol (yes, he's overly armed, but I gotta field one Rule of Cool model).
4 x Initiates with Autoguns (I know, Spam...But, I need bodies, and there ain't much to choose from).
3x Heavy with Flamer, Heavy Stubber w. Photo Visor, Grenade Launcher w. frag (a little more than a starting Necro House Gang gang could get ).
Trooper Hybrid with Autogun (one more body, can't add another Neophyte due to "half team" rule).

If I was dressed for success, I'd need some better anti-armor, higher strength weapons to fight all comers. I'll surely fall off that bridge when I come to it.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/12 23:56:07


Post by: GodDamUser


 Gobbla wrote:

Gonna go against Astra Militarium tomorrow. My best guess:

Leader with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol (yes, he's overly armed, but I gotta field one Rule of Cool model).
4 x Initiates with Autoguns (I know, Spam...But, I need bodies, and there ain't much to choose from).
3x Heavy with Flamer, Heavy Stubber w. Photo Visor, Grenade Launcher w. frag (a little more than a starting Necro House Gang gang could get ).
Trooper Hybrid with Autogun (one more body, can't add another Neophyte due to "half team" rule).

If I was dressed for success, I'd need some better anti-armor, higher strength weapons to fight all comers. I'll surely fall off that bridge when I come to it.


Pretty much very similar to my GSC cult list..

I personally left off the 3rd spec with launcher as a latter purchase in favor of more numbers.. so I went

Leader with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol
4 x Initiates with 2xAutoguns 2xAutopistol
2x Heavy with Flamer, Heavy Stubber w. Photo Visor
3x Trooper Hybrid 2xShotgun, 1x Lasgun


The biggest issue I have seen people playing GSC cult, is that they are not using enough terrain, and/or haven't played Necromunda in the past so don't know how to effectively use the table for their advantage


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/13 05:39:08


Post by: westiebestie


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 westiebestie wrote:
How many missions/scenarios are there in the book? (I'm buying it as soon as GW releases it separately) How are they and how much variation is there?

What's the playing time for 1000p?

Sounds like a fun game, gives me reason to paint up a few cultists for my CSMs.



6 missions total, one is more a consequence of having a guy go down and get captured.

But you also have 10 'sub-plots', which are sort of like Wild Cards that can affect the mission.

All the missions play a bit differently and will force you to get out of your element. For example, if you're relying on long-range firepower and sniping people, a couple of these missions will make you weep. They kind of force you to have a flexible, mobile team.

A word of advice on your cultists- at least paint their coats or something a different color. And be sure you invest in the rifle.

And how long do the games take? A game can end in turn 1 for the first player. There is no set amount of turns. You just go at it until someone bottles out or the mission is completed. A typical game for me is about 30 minutes.


Thank you. <1H playing time and plenty of variation on missions all sound good to me.

Buying the book once it is available!


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/13 19:02:16


Post by: master of ordinance


 Manchu wrote:
Mind posting your Eldar list and, if possible, your buddy's GSC list? FYI - there have been complaints about GSC being weak.

He had:
Leader with an Autopistol (I think)
2 troopers with Autoguns
2 Troopers with Lasguns
1 Specialist with a Grenade Launcher (Frag)
1 Specialist with a Mining Laser
2 more troopers that had Autoguns (I think)

All in all it was that accursed Mining Laser that did all the damage.

I have (currently, this is going to change - I have spare points)

Exarch with a Avenger Shuriken Catapult and a Power Glaive

Avenger with Avenger Shuriken catapult

Heavy with a Shuriken Cannon

Guardian with Shuriken catapult

Guardian with Shuriken Catapult

The game we where playing was a practice/tester game and so it didnt count - I casualties dont happen, we dont get promethium, you can jig your list about afterwards, etc.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/14 23:39:41


Post by: Gobbla


GodDamUser wrote:
 Gobbla wrote:

Gonna go against Astra Militarium tomorrow. My best guess:

Leader with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol (yes, he's overly armed, but I gotta field one Rule of Cool model).
4 x Initiates with Autoguns (I know, Spam...But, I need bodies, and there ain't much to choose from).
3x Heavy with Flamer, Heavy Stubber w. Photo Visor, Grenade Launcher w. frag (a little more than a starting Necro House Gang gang could get ).
Trooper Hybrid with Autogun (one more body, can't add another Neophyte due to "half team" rule).

If I was dressed for success, I'd need some better anti-armor, higher strength weapons to fight all comers. I'll surely fall off that bridge when I come to it.


Pretty much very similar to my GSC cult list..

I personally left off the 3rd spec with launcher as a latter purchase in favor of more numbers.. so I went

Leader with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol
4 x Initiates with 2xAutoguns 2xAutopistol
2x Heavy with Flamer, Heavy Stubber w. Photo Visor
3x Trooper Hybrid 2xShotgun, 1x Lasgun


The biggest issue I have seen people playing GSC cult, is that they are not using enough terrain, and/or haven't played Necromunda in the past so don't know how to effectively use the table for their advantage

We're both Necro players from way back. We did use lots of terrain. You gots too. So much more fun, so much more challenging. I didn't notice Astra Militarium were BS4. But, they don't do much else really well. We had a great game. He ran his guys on their own. I kept mine in teams of 2 or three. I didn't hit as often, but Pining gave him trouble. He hit more often, but, with a buddy nearby, my guys recovered from Pinning more better.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 05:51:13


Post by: str00dles1


Played a few games in total of this. Skitarrii Rangers vs tyranid Warriors. So heres my thoughts on all of it.

1. Its stupid you play as warriors and not horma/termagaunts in a swarm like orks. You can take 4 models, and that's 12 wounds to chew though, and they don't get pinned unless high impact/str 7 weapons.

2. The missions are horribly imbalanced in everyway. The one mission I'm the defender, I get D6 guys. I roll a 2 and have 2 guys. My opponent is attacker, he has 4 warriors. Literally no way to win. Most of the missions is turn 1 someone can easily loose. Somehow, GW hasn't figured out that skirmish games (and most games) work better with UGOIGO

3. Love the terrain, got two sets and the new set with walkways. Its a good amount, but yea, youd need at least 5-6 sets to really build a good table with it.

I don't mind or care that I lost so bad, its just the balance of it all. No game is good mechanically if you can loose turn one. Plus there is very little tactical situations that come up. Its purpose is to get people slowly into 40k and have a game to play right before 8th comes out, but its just not a good game over all. It will succeed at its goal in large, but after a few games, I'm sure people that have played other skirmish games will realize how bad this one is put together. I don't recommend this one to anyone. You want 40k skirmish, play Heralds of Ruin kill team. Better balance, better system on activations, etc.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 08:56:12


Post by: aka_mythos


The reason you play as Tyranid Warriors is because besides Genestealers they're the most basic synapse creature and Termagaunts would move with instinctive behavior


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 13:37:22


Post by: AndrewGPaul


str00dles1 wrote:
2. The missions are horribly imbalanced in everyway. The one mission I'm the defender, I get D6 guys. I roll a 2 and have 2 guys. My opponent is attacker, he has 4 warriors. Literally no way to win. Most of the missions is turn 1 someone can easily loose. Somehow, GW hasn't figured out that skirmish games (and most games) work better with UGOIGO


Necromunda was never balanced; that was the good thing about it.

Anyway, your statement is factually incorrect; I played The Raid using Astra Militarum Veterans as defender, starting with two sentries., while the attacker was Harlequins with four models. He managed to take down the sentries, but not before the alarm was raised*. Both sentries subsequently got back up, and as reinforcements arrived, the increasing numbers meant I could start to pour on enough fire to force a Bottle roll. So I won the scenario you claim there is "literally no way to win".

*one sentry was charged by a Harlequin, failed his Fear test and fled. We assumed that counted as raising the alarm. IN any case, he fled, was fired on, wounded and fell off a ledge, going Down in the process; the alarm was raised by that point anyway.

Warmachine is held up as the acme of a balanced game, and it's full of stories of first-turn wins. It's also possible with Infinity and probably Malifaux too. It's not ideal, but it happens. In that case, you've got plenty of time to carry out the post-battle sequence and play again.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 13:43:04


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


Well, we did dry runs at my FLGS all day yesterday.

We keep having problems where you get the basic Mission 1, and the Tau, Skit, and IG players just move their guys into elevated cover and overwatch for the whole game.

I'm not kidding. We had guys just saying 'My turn? OK my whole team overwatches'.

Eventually when they started doing this, we just told them to get off the table.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 18:01:58


Post by: str00dles1


 aka_mythos wrote:
The reason you play as Tyranid Warriors is because besides Genestealers they're the most basic synapse creature and Termagaunts would move with instinctive behavior


But they could have easily made it so they get 1 warrior as the leader, the rest gaunts. Added a sentence to say they ignore the synapse rule for this. A million things they could have done but they didn't care to.


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
str00dles1 wrote:
2. The missions are horribly imbalanced in everyway. The one mission I'm the defender, I get D6 guys. I roll a 2 and have 2 guys. My opponent is attacker, he has 4 warriors. Literally no way to win. Most of the missions is turn 1 someone can easily loose. Somehow, GW hasn't figured out that skirmish games (and most games) work better with UGOIGO


Necromunda was never balanced; that was the good thing about it.

Anyway, your statement is factually incorrect; I played The Raid using Astra Militarum Veterans as defender, starting with two sentries., while the attacker was Harlequins with four models. He managed to take down the sentries, but not before the alarm was raised*. Both sentries subsequently got back up, and as reinforcements arrived, the increasing numbers meant I could start to pour on enough fire to force a Bottle roll. So I won the scenario you claim there is "literally no way to win".

*one sentry was charged by a Harlequin, failed his Fear test and fled. We assumed that counted as raising the alarm. IN any case, he fled, was fired on, wounded and fell off a ledge, going Down in the process; the alarm was raised by that point anyway.

Warmachine is held up as the acme of a balanced game, and it's full of stories of first-turn wins. It's also possible with Infinity and probably Malifaux too. It's not ideal, but it happens. In that case, you've got plenty of time to carry out the post-battle sequence and play again.


Incorrect. I played Hit and Run. I was the defender. I got D6 guys, I rolled a 2 and got 2 guys. I played vs Nids he had 4 warriors. The min amount of guys he can get is 4. So he got all 4 regardless of his roll. That is literally impossible to win.

Any game that is a first turn win isn't designed with giving the enjoyment of playing a miniatures game in mind. It gives no good play experience. At that point you might as both roll a d6, see who gets higher and declare that the winner.

Like I said, this is literally a stop gap to acquire new players and have them slowly build up a force right before the release of 8th. This worked, so GW accomplished their goal. The longevity/support/fun of this game is going to be per usual of GWs boxed games, a flash in the pan and on to the next.

The terrain is great, I plan to get more, but as for a game system, there are tons and tons of much better options out there. Take it as you will


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 21:52:23


Post by: Grimgold


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Well, we did dry runs at my FLGS all day yesterday.

We keep having problems where you get the basic Mission 1, and the Tau, Skit, and IG players just move their guys into elevated cover and overwatch for the whole game.

I'm not kidding. We had guys just saying 'My turn? OK my whole team overwatches'.

Eventually when they started doing this, we just told them to get off the table.


If he wanted his whole table to overwatch he should have played infinity seriously though, I'd love for an opponent to do that because they are effectively saying "I want you to choose my targets and knock a point off of my ballistic skill".


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 22:00:17


Post by: aka_mythos


str00dles1 wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
The reason you play as Tyranid Warriors is because besides Genestealers they're the most basic synapse creature and Termagaunts would move with instinctive behavior


But they could have easily made it so they get 1 warrior as the leader, the rest gaunts. Added a sentence to say they ignore the synapse rule for this. A million things they could have done but they didn't care to.

Thematically Shadow War is framed as kill team fighting kill team which is a bit different from the actual game "Kill Team" where even though that was a possibility in general it was expected that some players would play swarmy goon squads of fodder... This isn't that. While I believe there is a place for the type of list and force you are talking about a brood of Warriors is more consistent with what they were trying to achieve. Almost all the lists are built around a single 40k troop squad outfitted for the kill team role... generally following the paradigm of veteran sergeant, basic troop, gunner, new recruit... the main departure from this is the CSM who include cultists just to underscore that there aren't "newly recruit" CSM. Warriors are able to fulfill this without the need for gaunts.

Warriors don't really operate solitary. Despite being a synapse creature they operate in broods and a single Warrior leading a pack of gaunts would be a departure from that.

I think there is also a game balance component... Warriors tend to build out as a more elite teams, on the same order as Grey Knights... and if you could give either a screen of fodder they would nearly never die. The risk vs reward would quickly become all reward.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 22:42:12


Post by: Gobbla


str00dles1 wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
The reason you play as Tyranid Warriors is because besides Genestealers they're the most basic synapse creature and Termagaunts would move with instinctive behavior


But they could have easily made it so they get 1 warrior as the leader, the rest gaunts. Added a sentence to say they ignore the synapse rule for this. A million things they could have done but they didn't care to.


They designed the teams to be built from one troop box. Or, the same box, twice. Tyranid Warriors are the most basic troop type with a variety of weapons. And, a plausible independent team psychology, compared to lesser Hive Mind creatures. All teams have similar "limitations," to one degree or another. That said, Tyranids Warriors is a team with basic members that are better than most team's Special Operatives. They stretch the envelope. I played them and tabled CSM, which are no slackers. Don't judge the game by Tyranids. And, how well Tyranids perform in a campaign is the real test. You can't even replace a specialist or a trooper. You have to spend a Promethium Cache to buy a New Recruit with the cheapest weapons. Or, spend a PC to buy a decent weapon.


str00dles1 wrote:
2. The missions are horribly imbalanced in every way. The one mission I'm the defender, I get D6 guys. I roll a 2 and have 2 guys. My opponent is attacker, he has 4 warriors. Literally no way to win. Most of the missions is turn 1 someone can easily loose. Somehow, GW hasn't figured out that skirmish games (and most games) work better with UGOIGO


I get you are frustrated by a bad outing. But, c'mon now, we're talking about a game system that flourished for years in its second version (and Necromunda), and is still around 5 versions for a total of 30 years. The missions were not designed like balanced one-off games. They come from Necro. There, they told stories, and put gangs in difficult situations. No gang was supposed to win every game. This isn't a tournament, or even a ladder league. Survival and climbing the"corporate" ladder were the goals. There is still enough randomness after a battle to snatch victory from defeat, and defeat from victory. I wont say they got it right with 12 different factions, cause I don't know. But, I bet you the three factions that came with the game box are closely matched. I know my Genestealer Cult matches up well with Astra Militarum.

Anyway, I've already had two great games (Tyranids vs CSM, GSC vs AM). Don't know how much you have invested in the game, but I hope you give it a second chance. Just pick on somebody your own size, this time.

Oh, and for you folks lamenting the "Everyone is on Overwatch," BS. You need a lot more terrain. You need to make sure you know your Hit modifiers and Fleeting Target rules. And, keep your eyes on the prize (Victory Conditions).


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/15 23:53:18


Post by: KiloFiX


Btw, in Hit and Run Tyranids roll D6 then subtract 2 from the stated number of models.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/16 01:11:31


Post by: Gobbla


 KiloFiX wrote:
Btw, in Hit and Run Tyranids roll D6 then subtract 2 from the stated number of models.

We'll just put an asterisks next to that "W."

What if you roll a 1 or 2? Game over, thanks for playing?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/16 01:38:32


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 Gobbla wrote:
 KiloFiX wrote:
Btw, in Hit and Run Tyranids roll D6 then subtract 2 from the stated number of models.

We'll just put an asterisks next to that "W."

What if you roll a 1 or 2? Game over, thanks for playing?


..You end up with one.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/16 03:35:29


Post by: ddogwood


In addition to the bit where attacking Tyranids should have had a MAXIMUM of four models, not a minimum, you have the option to just run away if you're facing a totally unbalanced match.

This isn't designed to be a perfectly balanced, competitive game. If that's what you want, there are better choices than pretty much anything that GW makes.

It's a narrative game that is supposed to let you throw down some minis and cool terrain and have a fun game that lasts less than an hour.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/16 13:19:03


Post by: AndrewGPaul


str00dles1 wrote:
I played Hit and Run. I was the defender. I got D6 guys, I rolled a 2 and got 2 guys. I played vs Nids he had 4 warriors. The min amount of guys he can get is 4. So he got all 4 regardless of his roll. That is literally impossible to win.

In that instance, you don't even need to worry about raising the alarm. Hunker down for a couple of turns and then your reinforcements can hopefully turn the tide. Unlikely? Of course. That's what makes it all the better when you pull it off.

At least the game didn't last very long, you only had to worry about two potential injuries and then you get a Promethium Cache, 100 points of reinforcements and on to the next game.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/16 15:23:57


Post by: Gobbla


Deleted.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/16 15:51:24


Post by: Bobthehero


I for one am really shocked that armies with logistic support behind them can get gear more easily than gangers in the deep pit of nowhere. Shocked, I tell you.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/16 16:56:32


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


If you guys want more missions, I heartily suggest download the Necromunda Compilations from Yaktribe. Between them there are maybe... 25 new scenarios/missions, most of which work with ZERO alterations.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/17 15:50:26


Post by: Time 2 Roll


Am I playing something wrong or are Orks more likely to run out of ammo than actually knock an opponent out of the game?

We played with a lot of terrain and it wasn't hard to force the Orks at BS 2 to need a 6, 7 or 8 to hit. I.e. you need to roll a six to hit and then reroll (if a 7 or 8 is required). From there you roll to wound, which could fail, be stopped by armor/invul or result in a wound, of which you only have a 1/6 chance of knocking them out of the game.

However, upon rolling the six to hit you need to roll a 5+ to avoid running out of bullets, i.e. you have a 1/6 chance of running out of bullets.

Is this all correct?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/17 18:03:23


Post by: KiloFiX


The can still pin. Then finish off a downed opponent in melee.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/17 18:15:16


Post by: Time 2 Roll


But pinned opponents stand up if charged right?


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/17 18:25:17


Post by: Manchu


Right - unlike a downed fighter, a pinned fighter stands up as soon as the charging fighter is B2B.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/17 18:58:42


Post by: Time 2 Roll


Thank you both. I just wanted to make sure I was understanding it correctly.

I was fighting harlequins and they didn't seem to be the most appealing combatants to enter into melee against.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/17 19:51:21


Post by: Zwan1One


str00dles1 wrote:
1. Its stupid you play as warriors and not horma/termagaunts in a swarm like orks. You can take 4 models, and that's 12 wounds to chew though, and they don't get pinned unless high impact/str 7 weapons.


I think gaunts require the presence of the hive mind control from a bigger tyrant or some such creature. In a small game like this you want you gangers to be independent. Gives more tactical flexibility then have everyone in a single lump. But the warriors do sound tough!
Basically the warriors are more trust worthy then the gaunts to act independently!


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/18 07:20:10


Post by: danyboy


Time 2 Roll wrote:
Am I playing something wrong or are Orks more likely to run out of ammo than actually knock an opponent out of the game?

We played with a lot of terrain and it wasn't hard to force the Orks at BS 2 to need a 6, 7 or 8 to hit. I.e. you need to roll a six to hit and then reroll (if a 7 or 8 is required). From there you roll to wound, which could fail, be stopped by armor/invul or result in a wound, of which you only have a 1/6 chance of knocking them out of the game.

However, upon rolling the six to hit you need to roll a 5+ to avoid running out of bullets, i.e. you have a 1/6 chance of running out of bullets.

Is this all correct?

I think that if ToHit roll of 7 is required it is not possible to actually Hit. That rerolll works only if you have BS7 and rolled "1" the first time.
Actually "Knocking Out-of-the-game" is quite difficult in this game, and that's the beauty of it!

After rolling "6" To Hit you must pass Ammo Roll on 2d6! That makes it easier


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/18 07:36:50


Post by: Manchu


Not quite. It's possible to "roll" a 7 - roll a 6 then roll again and get a 4+. You need a 5+ on the second die to "roll" an 8 and a 6 on the second die for a 9. You can't hit if you'd need a 10 or more.

And he knows the ammo test is on 2d6 - that's what he was referring to by citing a 1/6 chance of running out of ammo.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/18 08:00:51


Post by: danyboy


 Manchu wrote:
Not quite. It's possible to "roll" a 7 - roll a 6 then roll again and get a 4+. You need a 5+ on the second die to "roll" an 8 and a 6 on the second die for a 9. You can't hit if you'd need a 10 or more.

And he knows the ammo test is on 2d6 - that's what he was referring to by citing a 1/6 chance of running out of ammo.

Ok, thanks, found it in my RB.


[SWA] what do you think ? @ 2017/04/19 04:08:33


Post by: NH Gunsmith


Has anyone tried the Wyche Cults team yet? I have oodles of the models I have been trying to find a reason to use, and this seems like a pretty fun little game.