Definitely better than it could have been, Bill is far less irritating than expected, Capaldi continues to just own the script and screen and I can forgive a pretty unoriginal monster in what amounts to an intro episode.
I still hold the last series (bar Sleep No More which is just terrible) as the high point, 11/12 fantastic episodes, but I'm definitely on board for this one. Lots to look forward to; old-school Cybermen, Ice Warriors, The Master(s)!
Though next week's is written by the guy who did In The Forest Of The Night, which isn't exactly encouraging...
Bill was a nice surprise. From the talk and clips beforehand I was expecting a hyper-cringeworthy "down with da kidz"(middle class middle aged TV writers trying to write young, usually working class slang dialogue rarely turns out well) affair but it came together quite well.
I also quite liked Matt Lucas' character, such as it was, which is a phrase I never thought I would utter in any circumstances.
Capaldi continues to be brilliant and it will be a shame to see him go, doubly so if the rumoured replacement Boring McAveragebore of the Boretown McAveragebores is right.
I'm a fan of Matt Lucas, and have been ever since I saw him performing Sir Bernard Chumley's Gangshow at the Edinburgh Fringe. But, I wasn't sure he was right for Doctor Who.
Yeah, he was River's assistant in The Husbands of River Song, where he has his head removed. He pops up again in the latest Christmas Special, where they mention that the Doctor 'reassembled' him. From the bit at the start of this episode, it looks like he might be a cyborg.
Thoroughly enjoyed this episode. It's a very different tone to last season, and I like Bill far more than I expected to.
So apparently the Tardis is less special if there are other ships that can travel thru time just as fast and far while also shape shifting? That wasn't even the whole other ship, just part of it.
While we're here, something is bugging me about the Season 9 closer (demi-closer?) Heaven Sent.
So every room in the castle resets itself to the state it was in when the Doctor arrived. OK, fine. That in fact is a key point in the whole thing.
So... how does he ever get through the wall? Wouldn't whatever damage he did be reset as well?
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS glad to see I'm not the only one who didn't like Clara, it's a shame, the actress was good but other than her Mary Sue moment at the end of Matt Smith's run they never convinced me she was at all interesting. The whole Impossible Girl thing made it worse since she now had to live up to being the Most Important Companion of All Time.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: While we're here, something is bugging me about the Season 9 closer (demi-closer?) Heaven Sent.
So every room in the castle resets itself to the state it was in when the Doctor arrived. OK, fine. That in fact is a key point in the whole thing.
So... how does he ever get through the wall? Wouldn't whatever damage he did be reset as well?
Not everything resets. For example, the (his) skulls keep piling up at thw bottom of the lake. The painting of Clara is a little older each time. The clothes he leaves to dry are always there for the next time. The wall must be another of those elements that doesn't revert when he hits the teleport.
Works for me. Course then that raises the issue that this was a very bad trap, if he keeps reliving the same few days how do they ever expect to get a confession out of him since he'll do the same thing every time...
ARG! Such a good episode till I start to overthink it.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Works for me. Course then that raises the issue that this was a very bad trap, if he keeps reliving the same few days how do they ever expect to get a confession out of him since he'll do the same thing every time...
ARG! Such a good episode till I start to overthink it.
Because not many people are prepared to spend longer than the lifetime of the universe to batter their way through a solid diamond wall 10 feet thick with their bare hands, one punch at a time, getting killed each time and having to work out the whole puzzle again in order to repeat it.
But he didn't! He relived the same few days x billion times but subjectively he only remembers being in there a few days.
It's actually an interesting free will question, make the same person live the same day will they do the same things? And if so, why expect a different result on the billionth take...
It doesn't really explain why, but the episode,is pretty clear that when he finds the wall, he remembers all the previous cycles, hence he understands that he needs to punch through so each 'life' gets a little further. If he didn't understand it was a loop, there'd be no point in trying that.
I thought by then he didn't so much remember the cycles as figure it out from the clues (the skulls, the painting etc) and of course after a few million tries there'd be a visible dent in the wall.
Anyway, damn good science fictioning in there. Damn good.
Bit concerned about the 'Emojibots' in next week's episode. For my money, Dr Who has never done contemporary particularly well.
Too reminiscent of the Handbots, Smilers and that crap one with the Cat Nurses (not to be confused with the Cat People from 'Survival', which is a fantastic story)
Survival was trying to do "contemporary" too, though.
Mind you, there's a discussion on Charles Stross' blog about what'll happen in the next 100 years; one thread of discussion was the technologically-mediated evolution of English - a written language of emojis was one suggestion. a sort of modern hieroglyphic text.
The robots actually remind me a little bit of Paradise Towers, although the new series has had a fair few dystopia stories already too.
I got a very "Weeping Angels" vibe from it, but I liked it! This is my first experience of the new series, but I like this companion - young, questioning, yet more than ready to put the Doctor in his place.
I think my main issue with this was just the massive oversight of
Spoiler:
the initial landing party. Like, they didn't consider the effects of death? They didn't allow for some "master reprogramming switch" in case the robots got out of hand? I think they really didn't consider the laws of robotics when they made them.
Definitely enjoyed that second episode. Maybe didn't go as far with some themes as it could have done, but still good fun, nicely resolved and with some well-written dialogue. I'm liking the lack of a sledgehammer-subtle plot arc, just the odd hints at the Vault* and Bill continues to be surprisingly likeable.
*My guess, The Master's TARDIS is in there, prompting the two Masters we're getting this series to team up and nick it back...
AduroT wrote: So apparently the Tardis is less special if there are other ships that can travel thru time just as fast and far while also shape shifting? That wasn't even the whole other ship, just part of it.
But did it travel in time? After all time is just relevant. The Doctor traveled to the future across the far universe. The other ship only has to know where it will be and when, then travel the distance. Where the Tardis took 1 second to travel to the future across the universe. The other ship could have taken 1000 years (or however far they traveled into the future) to actually get to that destination. So it gives the illusion that it time traveled, hence it didn't actually time travel.
Gordon Shumway wrote: What is Nardole? Was it mentioned in one of the xmas specials in some way that I missed?
Nardole was a former employee of River Song. After River and the Doctor spent 24 years on Darillium...
Spoiler:
...when River went to hear death in the Library, the Doctor reassembled Nardole because he was afraid to be alone. The Doctor and Nardole then spent about 70 years at St Luke's University in Bristol watching the vault.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I think my main issue with this was just the massive oversight of
Spoiler:
the initial landing party. Like, they didn't consider the effects of death? They didn't allow for some "master reprogramming switch" in case the robots got out of hand? I think they really didn't consider the laws of robotics when they made them.
Not really an oversight. I mean do you worry about the TV or Toaster being effected by your absence? They are machines, they are tools, why would someone think that would change when it isn't in the programming.
AduroT wrote: So apparently the Tardis is less special if there are other ships that can travel thru time just as fast and far while also shape shifting? That wasn't even the whole other ship, just part of it.
But did it travel in time? After all time is just relevant. The Doctor traveled to the future across the far universe. The other ship only has to know where it will be and when, then travel the distance. Where the Tardis took 1 second to travel to the future across the universe. The other ship could have taken 1000 years (or however far they traveled into the future) to actually get to that destination. So it gives the illusion that it time traveled, hence it didn't actually time travel. .
Except that it then followed them back to the Time War.
insaniak wrote: Except that it then followed them back to the Time War.
Ay, there's the rub. The real question is what year in Earth time did the time war occur? They haven't identified where in relation with Earth's history, past or future the time war technically took place. The time war itself takes place throughout time and technically is multiple wars.
According to canon the first war was 30,000 years ahead of Earth's future (which I think is the only indicator of where in relation to Earth's history things were), that was when the Order of the Black Sun launched attack to stop Gallifrey from gaining time travel. The second war which lasted 30,000 years took place a generation after the time of Rassilon, when the Time Lords were fighting the other races that developed time travel. Then the Deindum war fought across time against Braxiatel. Then there was the war between the Time Lords and Enemy (never given any other name), which resulted in the Gallifrey being destroyed because the 8th Doctor tried to prevent it. Then the time lords fought the Daleks in the Last Great Time War where all 13 incarnations of the Doctor froze Gallifrey in the pocket universe. Then there was the 900 years stalemate on Trenzalore that eventually resulted in averting a new Time War.
Although figuratively speaking they traveled to each place which was in the Doctor's past, it was not in relation to Earths timeline at the time. Due to quantum mechanics the ship only had to theorize or see where she was going to be and travel there. From what I can tell from when Bill interfaced with it, she could see the universe almost instantly. It didn't appear to see the past, as more it saw futures... or as the Doctors lecture said, what if you could see all your futures at the same time. It did travel fast though, since there was a delay on it arriving to to where they were in Time War as well as the end of the universe, although that seemed to be about the speed it was showing Bill the whole universe for those brief moments.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Was that the Time War they went to? Those were Movellans getting blown up by Daleks there.
That is true it could have been the Dalek-Movellan War, which it probably was. I don't recall them mentioning it was the time war... but I'll have to go back and re-watch the episode again. Either way that is still far in the future of Earth's timeline, not technically the past from when they left.
IIRC, they went from the basement to the Dorctor's office to ... didn't he say something like "the end of the universe"? and then to the Movellan-Dalek War. So the future from Bill's point of view, but the past compared to where they'd been immediately before.
AndrewGPaul wrote: IIRC, they went from the basement to the Dorctor's office to ... didn't he say something like "the end of the universe"? and then to the Movellan-Dalek War. So the future from Bill's point of view, but the past compared to where they'd been immediately before.
I see what you are saying. That is one way to look at it but this is where time is timey-wimey. Remember David Tennant established that time isn't a non-linear, non-subjective viewport, it is a big ball of wibbly-wobbly. It is how they demonstrate that "something in the past" sometimes doesn't directly relate to changing something in the future. Where we look at it from a linear point, so we see it for example as 2017 -> 60,000 -> 30,000. The Tardis however changes how they effect in their bubble so they don't directly get effect by the effects where they have hinted through various episodes. Technically from our point that would create a Paradox, until they established by and large they tend to sort themselves out and they don't create paradoxes like we normally think.
I guess I could see how it could be theorized that it is time travel. Although they didn't really hint at that or imply it so it is hard to say. From the perspective of the 'ship', I still hold the viewpoint it waited. Then traveled once they appeared to the end of the world. When they went back in time from that point, the ship just traveled to them (thus the other thing technically was undone and didn't happen). Since it was in the past it just didn't happen.
It can also be said that the "end of the universe" isn't the end of time but represents a distance.
The only time they treated time in a linear fashion was when the doctor was trapped in the Pandorica. When they did the comedic (which I hated) routine of turning the episode into Bill and Teds, he popped back and forth to the past as he remembered to do things, so his future would have the necessary things... like a fez.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I think my main issue with this was just the massive oversight of
Spoiler:
the initial landing party. Like, they didn't consider the effects of death? They didn't allow for some "master reprogramming switch" in case the robots got out of hand? I think they really didn't consider the laws of robotics when they made them.
Not really an oversight. I mean do you worry about the TV or Toaster being effected by your absence? They are machines, they are tools, why would someone think that would change when it isn't in the programming.
Normally, I wouldn't build my toaster or TV to recognise and combat my grief. I'd certainly want to programme the Laws of Robotics when dealing with them, so they at least don't kill anyone.
reds8n wrote: Indeed.
...
Spoiler:
..so do you think the female master will release the Sims Master then ?
Yeah, but outside of Aliens (Bishop has some of them encoded) or Data (ST:TNG), pretty much no-one in SF uses Asimov's laws (so they aren't even at the status of "guidelines" anymore).
We got the SJA boxset a while ago. We try to rewatch the new-Who series when a new doctor starts, with Torchwood and now this.
We're into the first few of series 2, and haven't ditched it yet. Some get a bit cringy at times, but there's a lot of that about these days.
This is just me and the wife.
If anyone's not seen it, the newest spin-off, Class, is well worth a look (I think it's all still on Iplayer). Definitely more on the Torchwood side of things rather than SJO, never quite as dark but I reckon a lot better for it. It's barely got any connection to the Whoniverse bar Capaldi's amazing cameo scene in the first episode, but it's still a cracking series.
Slightly disappointed by last night's episode. It felt rushed and lightweight. I would have liked it to be built up into a two-part story with more character development, gradually creeping horror, etc.
I enjoyed it, though I do feel the pacing was a bit off- the kids got killed off too quickly for the spookiness to really ramp up and the big reveal finale, while very good, felt a little dragged out. I also have to wonder why
Spoiler:
if the Dryad bugs made the choice to release this lot of victims before it died, why did it not release the others that the last 30 minutes had made clear were still in the house in some form? A minor point, but it feels like a bit of an oversight to me.
Next week's looks cracking though. Can't usually go wrong with the Space Base Under Siege type episodes.
The logic as I saw it is that by consuming the life force of the victims, they are able to sustain themselves and the wood lady for 20 years, during which time the life force must get used up. Thus while the previous victims might exist as memories, they cannot be reconstituted into full life.
The logic as I saw it is that by consuming the life force of the victims, they are able to sustain themselves and the wood lady for 20 years, during which time the life force must get used up. Thus while the previous victims might exist as memories, they cannot be reconstituted into full life.
Absolute stunner of an episode tonight. Fantastic script, wonderful performances all round, great concepts and a great ending. Pretty much an instant classic.
I think tonights was my favourite of the series so far. Fantastic plot, acting and surprises all made it pretty much perfect (not that I didn't like the other episodes, they were still great)
Agreed, a top episode, although frankly I'm surprised it got past the BBC high heid'yins; the Doctor was practically reading aloud from Das Kapital at several points, I thought he was going to start belting out a rendition of The Red Flag there in the reactor room, was brilliant
I get the feeling the writer was kind of a Trekkie, given the opening line and the whole thing of a space-faring humanity throwing off capitalism and all that. But it definitely added something sinister to the episode, beyond just 'it's a malfunction with the suits' or 'someone hacked them'.
Much like Thin Ice, I like the fact that the real 'monster' wasn't some alien mastermind or evil genius, just a human looking to make a quick buck. Half the time in Old Who there'd be a human bad guy siding with the monsters for his own selfish ends and they were always the best kind of villain, so it's nice to see that back.
Yep, another great one. As soon as the 'twist' became apparent I started waiting for a ludicrous 'Moffat Moment' that would bring the whole thing crashing down, but there wasn't one! Damn good episode and a great setup for what's coming next.
So I was thinking about the last episode and I have to wonder, what did the doctor borrow from his future self?
I'd like to think this how he started down the path to become the valeyard. He was an incarnation between his 12th and last regeneration. Did the doctor just take away his compassion from his future self and create "the beast"
but odds are it will be some random thing attributed to the next doctor.
sirlynchmob wrote: So I was thinking about the last episode and I have to wonder, what did the doctor borrow from his future self?
I'd like to think this how he started down the path to become the valeyard. He was an incarnation between his 12th and last regeneration. Did the doctor just take away his compassion from his future self and create "the beast"
but odds are it will be some random thing attributed to the next doctor.
Does it even matter since it was only a simulation and his current real self never did the thing?
Just started on this season and had to give up and turn it off as an old problem reared it's head.
Why the hell is the background music so loud? Is it just a BBC America thing? Half the time if the voices are pitched low, I can't even hear what they are saying.
The future’s looking bright for Doctor Who, with the sci-fi drama apparently headed for at least five more series on the BBC.
The news comes in a press release about a new deal the corporation has made with Chinese company SMG (Shanghai Media Group) Pictures, intending to expand the Doctor Who brand and increase the fanbase in China by making the entire Doctor Who catalogue (including spin-offs Torchwood and Class) available on Chinese TV channels and On-Demand services.
Interestingly, the deal doesn’t just include the eras of former and outgoing showrunners Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat.
The release states that the deal includes new Who boss Chris Chibnall’s series 11 (which has yet to be filmed) as well as "a first look for Series 12-15" (basically giving SMG Pictures first refusal before they try to sell them to other Chinese broadcasters).
This would suggest that the BBC are hoping to continue Doctor Who for at least four more series after Chibnall’s debut run, even if such a plan isn’t exactly set in stone yet.
In other words, it’s a good day to be a Doctor Who fan – especially if you live in China.
Compel wrote: "So Bill, there's this thing called regeneration..."
To be fair, I doubt he would be in a position to regenerate from an explosion/fire of that magnitude; it was set with the intent of basically sterilising the room, so would probably kill him faster than he could repair; there has to be at least something left alive to regenerate from. It's even been mentioned before a few times that burning is the most efficient way to make a Time Lord stay dead.
All in all, another great episode, I reckon. This 3-parter is shaping up to be up there with the best, barring any plot disasters next week.
I liked the ending to empress of mars. tying the ice warriors back into alpha centari and their alliance was a nice touch. the rest of the episode was pretty much meh up until the end.
and they never seem to be able to explain why it's happening (my guess is they replaced some old tech that monitored sound levels with something new and the kit doesn't provide similar results so while the sound track sounds ok through headphones to the recording bod it no longer translates as well to the sound off the TV).
(I've seen claims its down to modern TV speakers not being as good as there's a lot less space in flat screens, but programs with problems still sound terrible via my ancient CRT TV)
Glad it's not me. I've stopped watching since the first couple of Capaldi episodes because I can't read lips it's so bad, and this is the only show on all of cable that I watch with this problem.
Most if not all BBC series have subtitles made for them, but no idea if that's also shipped with the programmes?
I know it's not ideal, but may make the difference
And sound issues aside, I think this has been the best season in a long time in terms of sheer consistency. Even it's slightly meh episodes (Monk story finale) are still better than the more middling episodes of all the other seasons.
And again, I think Pearl Mackie is a major part of that. Matt Lucas as well. They've gelled beautifully as characters and actors with Capaldi, and they certainly make Clara a distant and honestly not very pleasant memory.
Haven't noticed. Maybe thought it was quieter overall but I just turned the volume up, but even then it's within general range of where my volume gauge roams.
That Monks episode with the lab accident got somebody I know a job She said she wrote an essay about all the things wrong with the way that lab was set up, and pointed out how everything should have been done instead.
With the regeneration tease at the start of todays episode it gave me a (most likely totally wrong)idea about who could be the next Doctor.
*drum roll*
The next Doctor is Michelle gomez Missy has actually been the Doctor all along but something happens with the Master during the regeneration that scrambles his/her memory. So Missy thinks she is the next Master instead of the Doctor.
Absolute stunner of an episode. The pacing ramping up and up, the slow, ever-more-horrifying reveal as the nature of the situation became apparent and damn, that closing scene!
Spoiler:
'A genesis of the Cybermen'... ing brilliant! Simm's grand reveal was fantastically over the top without being comedic, Gomez as 'Doctor Who' was hilarious and the script was excellent.
Can't wait for next week's, to finally see exactly how the Cybermen evolved. Biggest question is will we get the next Doctor reveal at the end of the episode, or have to wait until Christmas? If it is next week though, I hope they save the reveal for the episode itself rather than an announcement show like Capaldi got, that'd be a great way to close the series.
Had I not known less going into the episode, I think I would have enjoyed it far more than I did. Knowing the big reveals ahead of the episode made it feel a bit meh
I did get a bit of a Zathras vibe from that character...
A great episode - we knew it was coming but the slow 'body horror' build up worked as the bandaged patients became the first iteration of the cybermen. Some easter eggs too - the Master actually calling it 'Genesis of the Cybermen' and the tear drop....
It was a good episode. I really do wonder what was the point in watching any of it at all though, considering last weeks preview and the earlier previews pretty much revealed the entire thing.
Yeah, I totally thought of Zathras while watching the episode, though I had forgotten his name. Had deduced where they were going with it before seeing the headgear, though that definitely cinched it for me.
AduroT wrote: Yeah, I totally thought of Zathras while watching the episode, though I had forgotten his name. Had deduced where they were going with it before seeing the headgear, though that definitely cinched it for me.
It seemed pretty obvious when they came to pick her up on the bridge. The only surprise I found was 'Zathras' at the end. I'm not sure how that twist makes sense, but it definitely was a surprise.
Definitely the best episode of a pretty mediocre season (though not as awful as the last one).
GoatboyBeta wrote: With the regeneration tease at the start of todays episode it gave me a (most likely totally wrong)idea about who could be the next Doctor.
*drum roll*
The next Doctor is Michelle gomez Missy has actually been the Doctor all along but something happens with the Master during the regeneration that scrambles his/her memory. So Missy thinks she is the next Master instead of the Doctor.
My personal theory is (and I'm not spoiled on the next Doctor and don't want to be), they're either going to go with a female Doctor so they can once again pointlessly chase romantic_companion storylines (but this time with lesbians!) or a male Doctor to make Time Babies with Missy. One or the other is the driving force behind the selection of the next doctor.
GoatboyBeta wrote: With the regeneration tease at the start of todays episode it gave me a (most likely totally wrong)idea about who could be the next Doctor.
*drum roll*
The next Doctor is Michelle gomez Missy has actually been the Doctor all along but something happens with the Master during the regeneration that scrambles his/her memory. So Missy thinks she is the next Master instead of the Doctor.
My personal theory is (and I'm not spoiled on the next Doctor and don't want to be), they're either going to go with a female Doctor so they can once again pointlessly chase romantic_companion storylines (but this time with lesbians!) or a male Doctor to make Time Babies with Missy. One or the other is the driving force behind the selection of the next doctor.
Isn't this season also meant ti be Pearl Mackie's only season as Bill?
I'd half expect her to stay as the first Cyberman or something similarly tragic by the end that leaves the Doctor distraught or something.
I'm looking forward to it, the end of the not so grand Moff's reign of increasingly smug self satisfied ham fisted efforts, both Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi deserved so much better, I think Moff could write passable one offs but big arcs of wackadoodle muddled bobbins he defended by somehow implying the critics didn't 'get' it was just tiring, likewise the latter Sherlocks which he arguably mangled worst than Who
That was quite simply fantastic. Hit all the right notes for a finale. Epic but personal, tragic yet hopeful, satisfying as a conclusion and excellent as a story in its own right.
Bring on Christmas, and a 6-month lockdown on any Who-related rumours as I cannot wait to see where that ending is going...
Yeah, The Master is only ever gone until a story calls for him not to be. Much like how the Daleks have been 'wiped out' over and over This version (and what a version, Simm's equal in every respect) might be over, but there'll be another eventually, possibly sooner rather than later.
I will admit, I'm not generally too experienced with Old-Who, nor an expert on much of new-Who at all.
Specifically saying, essentially,
Spoiler:
"nope, no regeneration for you" as a line of dialogue, does seem more... permanent than usual.
Of course, this is Doctor Who, so timey wimeyness and retcons apply more than anything short of the last decade of DC comics.
But still, there's a chance I feel each time a retcon is done that it can break an audiences investment in the drama. - After all, is it still dramatic, if there's no consequences?
Not a bad finale for an overall decent season. Even if the power of love did kinda save the day again, it was nice to see a good ending for Bill and puddle girl. But I'm really gonna miss the excellent cast they had this year
I found Bill to be the most interesting sidekick since Dr Who returned.
We didn't know her for long, but she felt well rounded. Never in awe of the Doctor. Never trying to be him. Never trying to shag him. She simply was.
And Nardole was an unexpected joy. Now, I like Matt Lucas. Have done ever since I caught Sir Bernard Chumley's Gangshow at the Edinburgh fringe over 20 years ago. But I do get he can be a bit much for some.
But Nardole was pitch perfect in my opinion. He'd stand up to The Doctor. He'd call bullpoop when he needed to. But most of all. He proved his competence Time and time again. He wasn't your typically Whovian 'but.....why?' second fiddle. He worked, and he was great!
I agree. I had concerns about Bill and, especially Nardole from when they were announced and the original trailers. And my concerns were proved completely wrong.
Yes, it has been a very good series. I am sorry to see Missy and The Master die, but probably they will be resurrected in some way. He already survived the heat death of the entire cosmos, after all.
Compel wrote: I will admit, I'm not generally too experienced with Old-Who, nor an expert on much of new-Who at all.
Specifically saying, essentially,
Spoiler:
"nope, no regeneration for you" as a line of dialogue, does seem more... permanent than usual.
Of course, this is Doctor Who, so timey wimeyness and retcons apply more than anything short of the last decade of DC comics.
But still, there's a chance I feel each time a retcon is done that it can break an audiences investment in the drama. - After all, is it still dramatic, if there's no consequences?
The master spent a large part of Old Who with no regenerations left, cheating death by transferring his essence into other beings.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I found Bill to be the most interesting sidekick since Dr Who returned.
We didn't know her for long, but she felt well rounded. Never in awe of the Doctor. Never trying to be him. Never trying to shag him. She simply was.
And Nardole was an unexpected joy. Now, I like Matt Lucas. Have done ever since I caught Sir Bernard Chumley's Gangshow at the Edinburgh fringe over 20 years ago. But I do get he can be a bit much for some.
But Nardole was pitch perfect in my opinion. He'd stand up to The Doctor. He'd call bullpoop when he needed to. But most of all. He proved his competence Time and time again. He wasn't your typically Whovian 'but.....why?' second fiddle. He worked, and he was great!
Agree with all of this. I enjoyed Nardole far more than I expected to, and Bill was a fantastic companion. I think my favourite part of that finale was that I had no idea right up until the end if Bill was actually going to make it out... It could easily have gone either way, depending on what sort of tone they wanted to finish the season on, and it was going to be a shame to see her go in any case.
It's a bit of a shame that they left it for his last season to give Capaldi such a consistently good run of stories. He really shone this season in a way he didn't quite get to for most of his earlier episodes. Minimising the appearance of the sunglasses and guitar certainly didn't hurt.
And is it just me, or was he looking steadily more like John Pertwee as this season went on?
Definitely -I think it was the lining of his Crombie.
Bill can yet reappear of course.
As for Capaldi's stories? I rather fear he was hamstrung more by Clara, a character I couldn't take to at all. So awful in my opinion, I couldn't tell you if its the actress, writing, direction, or some jumble of the three.
Wasn't a fan of Bill. I thought she'd grow on me as the series progressed, but found her just as dull by the end of the series as I did in the advert for her. Loved Nardole though and would have appreciated him having some more screen time.
The finale was largely good in my opinion with the ending, hopefully, setting up for a really interesting Christmas special exploring regeneration
I absolutely loved that final scene. Not just the reveal, but Capaldi's final lines calling back to the previous Doctors as well.
As for the reveal itself
Spoiler:
I'm 100% on board! Ever since David Bradley did such a sensitive and captivating job as Hartnell himself in An Adventure in Space And Time I've been hoping he'd get the chance to play the First Doctor proper at some point, and I think he'll do splendidly.
Though I'm still waiting for them to find some way to shoehorn Paul McGann's Doctor back in to the show somewhere!
Oh, and for added old-school awesomeness, I came across this yesterday. DO NOT WATCH if you haven't seen last week's episode yet, but it's really rather cool.
I think some of them are red herrings. The next Doctor probably will be black or female. I will almost be disappointed if he/she isn't, with the amount of build-up...
Just read that! Good choice I think, going at the magic number 13, could be messy! She was very serious in Broadchurch but she a brill actor. Hopefully Matt Lucas comes back but I doubt it. In the minority probably but I'm not a fan of Bill.
I'm really surprised how close she's ended up looking to an online RPG version of the Doctor I've been watching for the past few months. Not identical, of course, but all things considered, I'm really surprised.
The DW Facebook page has a number of "OMG you ruined DW!" type rants.
Majority of folks are pleased and the remainder are of the 'wait and see camp'
I think they had so much signposting for a female DW in the last series that it was almost inevitable.
I'm not familiar with the actor's work...and she obviously wont' be as good as Michelle Gomez as Missy...but I think a change of something in the formula is somewhat overdue.
Just read that! Good choice I think, going at the magic number 13, could be messy! She was very serious in Broadchurch but she a brill actor. Hopefully Matt Lucas comes back but I doubt it. In the minority probably but I'm not a fan of Bill.
I've never seen Broadchurch, but someone pointed out she was in "Attack the Block" with John Boyega.
Kind of torn on this, whilst a female Doctor is fine part of me thinks its a churlish parting shot from the Moff to make Chibnalls job an uphilll battle, although its not like the show can't get much worse
I imagine Moffat probably had a fair bit of input, in so far as he was probably part of the decision to cast a woman, even if it was Chibnall who got to actually make the final choice.
As for the casting itself, it, and by extension the show's next season, lives and dies on the writing. If they can write her as The Doctor then I'm all for it, the moment they start writing her as The Female Doctor then that runs the risk of being crass and heavy-handed. If they can pull off a Missy and capture the essence of the character and its history in a new performance then it'll go well.
Still annoyed they couldn't keep it under wraps until Christmas though. I was looking forward to a genuine surprise. I considered trying to avoid the news but figured that'd be all but impossible.
I honestly lost interest in Doctor Who in the middle of the Matt Smith era and maintain the opinion that it's sucked ever since then. (Except one or two episodes with Capaldi, who was a good doctor with mostly gak writing)
That being said, I despised the idea of Female Master and don't like the whole female doctor thing. To me it just feels too... tokenish. Like they're only doing it to appease all the feminist fans who cry out for a female doctor. I dunno, if she does a good job then fine, but it just feels too much like someone trying to fill a social agenda and appease feminists everywhere.
That's my input on the whole she-bang. Used to be a big fan of Tennant, but that's been about it for me.
I'm hopeful that this will work. I'm sure it will, excluding Capaldi I've been doubtful about the other doctors and in my opinion they've all worked fairly well. My fear is that this casting has been done for the publicity rather than because it was considered a good idea
Overlord Thraka wrote: I honestly lost interest in Doctor Who in the middle of the Matt Smith era and maintain the opinion that it's sucked ever since then. (Except one or two episodes with Capaldi, who was a good doctor with mostly gak writing)
That being said, I despised the idea of Female Master and don't like the whole female doctor thing. To me it just feels too... tokenish. Like they're only doing it to appease all the feminist fans who cry out for a female doctor. I dunno, if she does a good job then fine, but it just feels too much like someone trying to fill a social agenda and appease feminists everywhere.
That's my input on the whole she-bang. Used to be a big fan of Tennant, but that's been about it for me.
Tenant's era was for the most part bloody awful.
Not the actor, but the stories. The whole Rose thing wasn't The Doctor. It featured the worst ever take on Daleks, Cybermen and The Master. None were convincing threats.
Moffat has his flaws, sure, but nothing, nothing on RTD.
She's a great actress, at least she was in broadchurch. My first reaction was she's too pretty and young the be the doctor. The doctor is attractive but in an unconventional way not super pretty like Jodie.
But on reflection I still think it's a great choice, it had to be different and a strange and oddly attractive female would be too much of a mimic of past male ones.
Its a shame this sort of thing cant be kept under wraps these days. If the BBC had not announced it themselves, some one would have leaked it. It would have been so cool to have the reveal in the first episode of the next series.
The sad thing is so are the other side of the aisle. If I have to read one more "yeah, OK, so it's a woman, but it's not a trans PoC woman so this show is still a tool of the patriarchy" hot take I might actually IRL scream.
She's a good actor and last time I checked you don't need a cock to be whimsical, so I'm happy, the reality is it's the writing that will make or break her as a Doctor so lets hope the new showrunner and the scripts they pick are solid, and that she gets a good companion.
Not familiar with her work (I think I've seen about 10minutes of Broadchurch), but she looks vaguely like a female David Tennant, so that works...
She's going to have to be bloody good to get over not just the usual 'new Doctor' hump but also the stigma of being the first female. Will be really interesting to see what they do with her.
Tamereth wrote:
I'm all for a strong female protagonist, but how about coming up with a new character instead of just making existing characters female.
Because then you lose the opportunity to explore what this character would bring to the table as a woman?
Or because if there is no intrinsic reason for the character to be a man, then what reason is there for them to not be a woman?
Or because we've explored a pretty wide range of different male archetypes in the last 50 years, and this is an opportunity to do something new?
Capaldi appealed to me because he channelled my favourite aspects of previous Doctors at different times.
Tom Baker's irreverence here, Troughton's clownishness there, and occasional glimpses of McCoy's manipulative streak.
Now, it's more of a blank slate. Previously The Doctor has (when not badly written....RTD) been avuncular in his approach. Will a female Doctor bring a more mothering feel to the relationship with companions?
Because it's the companions that lift the show. They're the lens through which we see The Doctor. When it's good, it's frankly superb (Ace, Perry in Caves of Androzani, Donna, Bill). When it's offkey (Mel, the absolutely god awful Clara) the show seriously suffers.
Capaldi for me was hamstrung by Clara, desperately trying to be the Doctor, and failing miserably. As I've said before, I don't know if it was the writing, the actress or the direction - possibly various combinations at different times, but she was a serious drag on the show. Mel likewise served no useful function other than to repeatedly get herself into scrapes and then scweam and scweam and scweam until my heads falls orf.
Rose? Bad writing gave us a bad Rose. Good writing improved it greatly. The whole love story thing just didn't work for me. But when she and The Doctor were written as equals, that relationship shone.
As a massive fan of Capaldi, I've been really disappointed by his Doctor - though I think it's the stories that have been lacking rather than him. I'm all for a major change to freshen it up.
Bit sad I can't say the Doctor lives round the corner from me anymore, though.
I think the key thing will be consistency. For all the talk of a fresh start and a new dynamic, The Doctor still has to act and interact like The Doctor. As stated in the S10 finale, Time Lords exist beyond gender, and as such, the fact she's a woman now shouldn't come up in the script at all. The new Doctor's persona should be driven by what Whittaker can bring to the table as an actress, rather than as a woman.
Again, Missy is what they need to aim for; 90% of her lines would work just as well for Simm, and vice versa, I'm confident Gomez could pull off the script for Last of the Time Lords or End of Time more than adequately. The moment the script and tone start treating The Doctor differently because she's a woman, it'll struggle.
In any case, the next series will end up coming under so much scrutiny that the writing has to be absolutely stellar; if they can handle that then we're in for a great series, but if it's as patchy and inconsistent as, say, series 8, but with so much more attention being paid to it and more of a burden to be exceptional, it could be in serious trouble.
privateer4hire wrote:Joanna Lumley was the first, wasn't she?
Knockagh wrote:Doctor Donna, was actually the first female doctor. Two beating hearts and everything! Loved Donna, doktor Donna, doktor Donna, doktor Donna
Yeah, Joanna Lumley was the first, albeit in The Curse of Fatal Death. Counting that, and the two people who've stood in for William Hartnell, she's the 21st actor to play the Doctor on TV.
privateer4hire wrote:Joanna Lumley was the first, wasn't she?
Knockagh wrote:Doctor Donna, was actually the first female doctor. Two beating hearts and everything! Loved Donna, doktor Donna, doktor Donna, doktor Donna
Yeah, Joanna Lumley was the first, albeit in The Curse of Fatal Death. Counting that, and the two people who've stood in for William Hartnell, she's the 21st actor to play the Doctor on TV.
Pah, I'd say it definitely counts - The Curse of Fatal Death was written by Moffat after all .
Capaldi appealed to me because he channelled my favourite aspects of previous Doctors at different times.
Tom Baker's irreverence here, Troughton's clownishness there, and occasional glimpses of McCoy's manipulative streak.
Now, it's more of a blank slate. Previously The Doctor has (when not badly written....RTD) been avuncular in his approach. Will a female Doctor bring a more mothering feel to the relationship with companions?
Because it's the companions that lift the show. They're the lens through which we see The Doctor. When it's good, it's frankly superb (Ace, Perry in Caves of Androzani, Donna, Bill). When it's offkey (Mel, the absolutely god awful Clara) the show seriously suffers.
Capaldi for me was hamstrung by Clara, desperately trying to be the Doctor, and failing miserably. As I've said before, I don't know if it was the writing, the actress or the direction - possibly various combinations at different times, but she was a serious drag on the show. Mel likewise served no useful function other than to repeatedly get herself into scrapes and then scweam and scweam and scweam until my heads falls orf.
Rose? Bad writing gave us a bad Rose. Good writing improved it greatly. The whole love story thing just didn't work for me. But when she and The Doctor were written as equals, that relationship shone.
For what it's worth, my daughter who is 17 says a lot of young people hate Capaldi for being old, but all of them hated Clara for being Clara. (I hated the Clara character too.)
That said my daughter isn't really a fan and hasn't watched a single episode of this year's series.
I was thinking about what I would have liked 13's first lines to be, (for those interested I figure 'well this is going to take some getting used to' or similar would work quite well), which led me into wondering if they are going to use the fact the doctor changes sex during regeneration as a plot point in the Christmas special. 12 was going on about not wanting to change, so what if the only way he can deal with regeneration is to completely change every physical aspect of himself beyond the limits of his previous regeneration
statu wrote: I was thinking about what I would have liked 13's first lines to be, (for those interested I figure 'well this is going to take some getting used to' or similar would work quite well), which led me into wondering if they are going to use the fact the doctor changes sex during regeneration as a plot point in the Christmas special. 12 was going on about not wanting to change, so what if the only way he can deal with regeneration is to completely change every physical aspect of himself beyond the limits of his previous regeneration
I think the best way to handle it naturally and try to smooth over some of the backlash would be to simply not acknowledge it, as that reinforces that this is something The Doctor is perfectly comfortable with. Do the usual 'ooh, [insert feature here] is different', like Tennant's 'New teeth! That's weird!' or Capaldi's 'Kidneys! I've got new kidneys!', but avoid the obvious ones. Then, whoever else happens to be there can comment on the change in gender itself, and the Doctor can shrug it off like it's a perfectly normal thing.
For example (crap script is crap, but it's a 3-minute sketch to illustrate)
Spoiler:
Doctor: Huh... new hair! Shiny. Long. Saves me dying it, though. And ooh, the eyebrows are much less scary. Come back, small children and animals, the scary face is gone!
Other character: Err.. Doctor? Is that the most obvious... I mean... erm...
Doctor: What? Have I got 3 heads? You're looking at me like I've got 3 heads... I had a friend with 3 heads once, but then, regeneration is a lottery, as they say. [Checks mirror] No, no, no. Only the one.
Character: No, Doctor, you're...
Doctor: Still not ginger! I know, but you can't have everything. Come along.
Character: No, Doctor! You're... You're a woman now!
Doctor: Am I? Oh yes, so I am. That's nice, I suppose. Let's go save the world.
I don't think it's a coincidence that there won't be a companion across the regeneration. Not only does it create a clean slate creatively, like the Smith/Amy/Moffat setup did, but it means that whoever comes next, The Doctor will always have been a woman as far as they're concerned. The closest they need come to knowing is a throwaway gag about why she has a wardrobe full of men's clothes!
Also having old enemies immediately recognize the Doctor without having to be introduced would get the point across.
As I've been out of regular watching for several years, does this incarnation start off an entirely new regen cycle or is she the last of the first cycle.
Matt Smith was the last of the initial regeneration group. Due to apparently Tennant regenerating into himself once plus the war doctor.
Capaldi is the first of an unspecified number of a new cycle of regenerations with this being the first time he has regenerated.
Skinnereal wrote: Or that 12 concludes that Missy was ready to change because she became female.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy wrote: For what it's worth, my daughter who is 17 says a lot of young people hate Capaldi for being old,
Capaldi is hardly old, compared to some of them.
He was just preceded by the youngest so far.
Hartnell was 49 when he started, Patrick Troughton was 46, Jon Pertwee was 51, so Capaldi at 54 actually has been the oldest person in the role (excpting John Hurt's cameo). In the modern era, though, we had three very young actors followed by the oldest. I think that created an expectation in a young audience who probably never saw any of the old series.
Skinnereal wrote: Capaldi is hardly old, compared to some of them.
He was just preceded by the youngest so far.
Hartnell was 49 when he started, Patrick Troughton was 46, Jon Pertwee was 51, so Capaldi at 54 actually has been the oldest person in the role (excpting John Hurt's cameo). In the modern era, though, we had three very young actors followed by the oldest. I think that created an expectation in a young audience who probably never saw any of the old series.
They just looked older, then.
He played it very much like a mid-life crisis, though. Shades, guitar, etc.
As I've been out of regular watching for several years, does this incarnation start off an entirely new regen cycle or is she the last of the first cycle.
There was a mention a while back (possibly during Tennant's run, I don't recall for sure) that with the Time Lords gone all the old rules went out the window, and that he wasn't entirely sure what that meant for his regenerations.
So, basically, they set it up so that they weren't going to be hamstrung by a rule that was made by writers who probably never envisaged that it would ever actually be a problem...
Kilkrazy wrote: Apparently there is a major new villain species coming next year, The Misogynoids.
They'll be easily defeated though when they refuse to acknowledge the Doctor at all and keep assuming her male companion is the one in charge, allowing her to carry out he devilishly clever plan unopposed.
He would be an interesting choice. But just like the 13 casting I'm not going to put too much faith in the tabloid rumours until there's something official.
Personally, I'm not a fan. - I kinda preferred the "noir detective" sorta look in the teaser.
I know there's all sorts of Whovian nerding out about the outfit and so on. Personally, it just makes me think of a nursery age childrens TV presenter.
"Right kids, lets do some fingerpainting before we get exterminated by daleks."
"Yay....!"
Yeah not really sold on the outfit from this photo. Maybe it will look better in motion? I've seen some really dynamic fan art already where it looks pretty good.
I instantly tried to convince myself I didn't dislike it, I"m sorry to say, which means I disllike it.
It was hard to say why, but thinking about it more, it's because it looks like the kind of outfit a styling team would come up with for Doctor Who as a woman after thinking really hard for a long time with lots of mood boards and stuff about how to come up with a cool kind of outfit for Doctor Who as a woman.
Trouble is, it doesn't say anything about the character of this Doctor. With Smith's tweed jackets, braces and bow tie you get 'eccentric professor'. With Tennant's sharp suits, you get 'suave action hero'. Ecclestone's jacket is cliched, but conveys a sense of toughness and roughness that characterised his Doctor. Capaldi's attire often called back to that of Pertwee and Hartnell, a gentleman adventurer/wise old man combo.
This new look says nothing. It looks like a collection of clothes pulled from a charity shop sale with no thought as to how they act as visual touchstones for character traits. It's lazy design. I'm genuinely surprised at some of the positive reaction to it I've seen elsewhere online.
Paradigm wrote: Trouble is, it doesn't say anything about the character of this Doctor. With Smith's tweed jackets, braces and bow tie you get 'eccentric professor'. With Tennant's sharp suits, you get 'suave action hero'. Ecclestone's jacket is cliched, but conveys a sense of toughness and roughness that characterised his Doctor. Capaldi's attire often called back to that of Pertwee and Hartnell, a gentleman adventurer/wise old man combo.
This new look says nothing. It looks like a collection of clothes pulled from a charity shop sale with no thought as to how they act as visual touchstones for character traits. It's lazy design. I'm genuinely surprised at some of the positive reaction to it I've seen elsewhere online.
I think this is more a callback to some of the more whimsical, thrown together Old Who costumes. Think anyone between 4 and 7. It wasn't until 8 and the reboot that they got back into 'serious' outfits again.
Also, for me, it has the feeling of a man trying to put together a female outfit from his closet. Which is, come to think of it, exactly what is happening in universe.
How is it, they managed to dress Missy in a way which was considered female dress, while being consistent with the character, yet they can’t do the same for the doctor. This photo makes it feel more like a reboot of the show, rather than a continuation
Kilkrazy wrote: I instantly tried to convince myself I didn't dislike it, I"m sorry to say, which means I disllike it.
It was hard to say why, but thinking about it more, it's because it looks like the kind of outfit a styling team would come up with for Doctor Who as a woman after thinking really hard for a long time with lots of mood boards and stuff about how to come up with a cool kind of outfit for Doctor Who as a woman.
Does that make any kind of sense?
Not really.
It just looks like they're trying to blend several elements of previous doctors (suspenders; shirt; overcoat and incongruous shoes) into a single outfit and it doesn't mesh well.
'as a woman, as a woman' doesn't seem relevant, it's just too much nostalgia wrapped together in a single outfit that just looks weird to modern eyes.
The one thing that does kinda spring to mind is "Blue Peter presenter".
The funny thing is I'm now seeing a lot of the other "side" being outraged by that. So the Mentwits are outraged by a female Doctor, and the Femtwits are outraged she looks like a children's telly presenter(something about it either being infantilising or pigeonholing based on gender roles or both tbh I drifted off). And the "Serious Whovians" are annoyed they're casting soap stars.
I mean it's not a cast iron guarantee but usually when something falls into the middle of a Venn diagram of hatred from groups like that I end up liking it, so yay?
I like it, though my initial impression is that I preferred the look in the teaser from a while back.
Definitely more reminiscent of some of the looks in the old Who (without being as ott), which is probably why a lot of new-Who fans are having issues with it.
Also I must say, I'm really sick of seeing all the stupid posts of people getting 'offended' and outraged that the Doctor is now a woman whenever a new announcement or whatever comes up, especially with much of the vitriol they're spewing.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Also I must say, I'm really sick of seeing all the stupid posts of people getting 'offended' and outraged that the Doctor is now a woman whenever a new announcement or whatever comes up, especially with much of the vitriol they're spewing.
I was a little surprised that someone reposted it on this page of the thread.
Clothes. Stuff we wear to keep us warm, and sometimes express tribal inclinations and membership.
Clothes.
Not a script. Not a story arc. Not a snippet of acting demonstrated.
Clothes.
It's not clothes, it's production design. It's an important part, a central part of the look and feel of the Doctor Who "universe". Clothes maketh the woman.
I think it might work better when we see it in movement.
Clothes. Stuff we wear to keep us warm, and sometimes express tribal inclinations and membership.
Clothes.
Not a script. Not a story arc. Not a snippet of acting demonstrated.
Clothes.
But these clothes, like any in any piece of drama/theatre/media are always chosen. They're not just thrown together, especially now.
They're used as a method of storytelling, telling us something about the character - something this really doesn't either paint a good picture of, or simply fails in that respect.
Sure, it's not part of their acting, or their story, but it IS part of their character - even day-to-day people in real life.
Personally I think the outfit looks a little daft.
Good thing the doctor has never been known to dress a little daft:
Spoiler:
Except that's silly. Not daft. It actually fits well together and despite being flamboyant, it makes sense.
This one just looks like she was rummaging through the Tardis's wardrobe and discovered none of her clothes for anymore because she has a smaller body than her predecessor, so she had to use a pair of Matt Smith's Braces to hold her trousers up.
It doesn't flow dammit! It's half "serious 80's padded shoulder strong independent woman" and half "clown pants."
welshhoppo wrote: Except that's silly. Not daft. It actually fits well together and despite being flamboyant, it makes sense.
This one just looks like she was rummaging through the Tardis's wardrobe and discovered none of her clothes for anymore because she has a smaller body than her predecessor, so she had to use a pair of Matt Smith's Braces to hold her trousers up.
It doesn't flow dammit! It's half "serious 80's padded shoulder strong independent woman" and half "clown pants."
The line between silly and daft is unclear.
Also, I think that the second sentence is just about exactly what happened. She has a dude's wardrobe and tried to come up with a feminine outfit out of it.
They are over at Rhaglan Barracks in south wales at the moment I think, saw them when I was taking a wander across the car park and snapped a pic, they just turned up over night a few days ago.
welshhoppo wrote: Except that's silly. Not daft. It actually fits well together and despite being flamboyant, it makes sense.
This one just looks like she was rummaging through the Tardis's wardrobe and discovered none of her clothes for anymore because she has a smaller body than her predecessor, so she had to use a pair of Matt Smith's Braces to hold her trousers up.
It doesn't flow dammit! It's half "serious 80's padded shoulder strong independent woman" and half "clown pants."
The line between silly and daft is unclear.
Also, I think that the second sentence is just about exactly what happened. She has a dude's wardrobe and tried to come up with a feminine outfit out of it.
Well in my eyes daft is when something makes no logical sense, silly can have logical sense. Daft does not. Seeing as she has the ability to travel through space and time and can't find the time to buy new clothes.
It's all a moot point, the show will not be made or broken over the outfit of the Doctor.
welshhoppo wrote:Well in my eyes daft is when something makes no logical sense, silly can have logical sense. Daft does not. Seeing as she has the ability to travel through space and time and can't find the time to buy new clothes.
Fair enough. I can see the first point. That being said, the doctor has previously not done a lot of clothes shopping and relied on the things nearby when regenerating to inform initial decisions.
It's all a moot point, the show will not be made or broken over the outfit of the Doctor.
Agreed.
statu wrote:The Doctor has previously given clothes to female companions, I think it’s safe to assume there’s female clothing in the wardrobe
Yeah, but those aren't her clothes, those are for guests.
In terms of actual female ‘fashion’, the only companion I can think of to be a declared fashionista (as opposed to women just sort of wearing clothes) would be Tegan.
She was incredibly 80’s (as well as incredibly annoying), so that could’ve rubbed off/be a frame of reference.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: In terms of actual female ‘fashion’, the only companion I can think of to be a declared fashionista (as opposed to women just sort of wearing clothes) would be Tegan.
She was incredibly 80’s (as well as incredibly annoying), so that could’ve rubbed off/be a frame of reference.
So the special has just aired. What are your thoughts?
It was a mneh from me, okay I suppose. Don't think it actually needed the first doctor at all.
Also meh, but it definitely needed the first Doctor. There wasn't really a story there otherwise, as the Captain was just left in the TARDIS and just trotted out to be confused for a few seconds every 15 minutes or so.
It felt like a sanitized version of Capaldi (or rather, the writers for the Capaldi seasons) getting sent off. No pathetic confusion, no weirdness about being 'a good man' (especially after the revelation that he wasn't some kind of war criminal after all), no bizarrely virulent hatred of the military and every soldier. Just the noble bits were remembered to get a send off, everything else was edited out.
I do think the emotional content relied too heavily on the historical event and not the characters. Without that it would have felt a bit 'Well, see ya, I guess.' Instead the scene trappings (and music) worked the whole thing up to an emotional moment, and then thrust the characters in. And that was almost entirely undone by jamming Miss Horrible and Whats-his-name into the scene.
@Souleater- I really don't agree with that. The final bit especially was more than a little heavy handed in NOT blank slating the Doctor. A bit dodgy for avoiding the bad bits, but Capaldi went out reciting a list of what makes a proper Doctor, and the whole thing was one gigantic call back.
I meant the last five minutes - the goodbyes to the companions, the Doctor losing her wedding ring, blowing the TARDIS up.
That smacked of hurriedly tidying up for new sets, writer and actors.
One of the things I took issue with was that The old Doctor shared the Captain's early twentieth century views of women's roles in society. Should he have been a wiser more advanced alien or were they right to keep with attitudes that may have been prevelant when that original Doctor aired?
So the special has just aired. What are your thoughts?
It was a mneh from me, okay I suppose. Don't think it actually needed the first doctor at all.
...no bizarrely virulent hatred of the military and every soldier. Just the noble bits were remembered to get a send off, everything else was edited out.
I think this may be a "side of the pond" thing, but his dislike of the military didn't seem particularly virulent or bizarre, and quite a fair few folk over here would consider it entirely noble - they picked that day in WW1 for a reason.
The only part I didn’t really care for was the Doctor losing their wedding ring at regeneration. I’d rather they kept to the marriage if nothing else as a buffer from companion romance stories.
At various times the Doctor seemed to use the ring to do things like opening the TARDIS and so on.
The ring was discarded when Pat Troughton became the Doctor. It slipped off the Doctor's finger when he was incarnated as the Second Doctor. Whatever use it may have had for the First Doctor the Second Doctor seemed to have moved on and no longer used it.
So the special has just aired. What are your thoughts?
It was a mneh from me, okay I suppose. Don't think it actually needed the first doctor at all.
...no bizarrely virulent hatred of the military and every soldier. Just the noble bits were remembered to get a send off, everything else was edited out.
I think this may be a "side of the pond" thing, but his dislike of the military didn't seem particularly virulent or bizarre, and quite a fair few folk over here would consider it entirely noble - they picked that day in WW1 for a reason.
Well, obviously they picked that day- it was an easy emotional trigger to prop up the lacking emotional content of the story
But I wasn't referring to this Christmas Special, but during the general run of the Clara/Capaldi seasons, especially when she had the ex-military boyfriend. And the weird Dalek episode. Both the Doctor and Clara were way out of line a great deal in their basic interactions with another person, solely because they were military or ex-military. Which never really tracked with Doctor Who in general, unless they were characters explicitly subbing guns for brains.
My statement of 'Just the noble bits' was referring to Capaldi's Doctor, not the war. The entire list of flaws (his initial confusion, weirdness about being ' a good man,' being anti-military) was simply excluded from this retrospective episode. And unfortunately, thanks to the writers, those are traits that I really associate with Capaldi's Doctor. Not the 'servant of humanity' or whatever that is supposed to be about.
Broadly speaking, us Brits aren't fans of the whole 'guns' thing. - There might be a bit of projecting American values onto British television there.
As for 12 being grumpy about the military, I think that DOES tie into his experiences as the War Doctor (which he only really properly confronted, instead of running away from at the end of 11)as well as maybe Trenzalore and is something he only finally came to terms with in this episode with the discussion about being a "Doctor of War."
So the special has just aired. What are your thoughts?
It was a mneh from me, okay I suppose. Don't think it actually needed the first doctor at all.
...no bizarrely virulent hatred of the military and every soldier. Just the noble bits were remembered to get a send off, everything else was edited out.
I think this may be a "side of the pond" thing, but his dislike of the military didn't seem particularly virulent or bizarre, and quite a fair few folk over here would consider it entirely noble - they picked that day in WW1 for a reason.
Well, obviously they picked that day- it was an easy emotional trigger to prop up the lacking emotional content of the story
But I wasn't referring to this Christmas Special, but during the general run of the Clara/Capaldi seasons, especially when she had the ex-military boyfriend. And the weird Dalek episode. Both the Doctor and Clara were way out of line a great deal in their basic interactions with another person, solely because they were military or ex-military. Which never really tracked with Doctor Who in general, unless they were characters explicitly subbing guns for brains.
My statement of 'Just the noble bits' was referring to Capaldi's Doctor, not the war. The entire list of flaws (his initial confusion, weirdness about being ' a good man,' being anti-military) was simply excluded from this retrospective episode. And unfortunately, thanks to the writers, those are traits that I really associate with Capaldi's Doctor. Not the 'servant of humanity' or whatever that is supposed to be about.
I understood what you meant fine - I'm saying that plenty of people over here consider being "anti-military"(ie, anti-war) entirely noble and exactly the sort of moral lesson that's appropriate for a family show broadcast on Saturday evenings, and that's one of the reasons they picked that day in that war for this Doctor's retrospective. Oh I'm sure there are some out there particularly these days who think it's the highest affront ever perpetrated by a television show, but broadly speaking even here in the UK at the more militaristic and vacuously nostalgic end of European sentiment war is still seen as a sorrowful affair to be avoided and military service a sad necessity resulting from a failure to do things the right way, not some heroic affair that needs glorification and pat "thank you for your service" sentiment. The tabloid rags and the Daily Mail might give the impression we're all flag-waving poppy-bedecked Imperialists marching around singing Britannia Rules The Waves 24/7, but that's very much still a vocal minority.
EDIT: Also, when did taking the time on occasion to reflect on your own actions and whether or not they were ethical and just become a negative thing?
I’m glad to see the back of Steven Moffat on this series. His last episode was yet another opportunity to make himself look clever and progressive with some viewers, at the expense of the programme, this time the characterisation of an older doctor.
Hartnell’s Doctor just wasn’t like that, over the last year or two I’ve watched every surviving episode of 60s Who and only on odd occasion does he say things like those in this story. If you asked a dr who fan what aspects of his speech stood out, they’d likely mention the way he fluffed his lines which they worked into the script as him getting people’s names wrong, especially his companion Ian. They wouldn’t likely talk about what a massive sexist he was, yet the Xmas story would leave you with the impression he was dropping these things every five minutes.
Maybe he could have said one thing a bit off and Capaldi’s Doctor could have done an eye roll, keep it subtle. Instead there were about half a dozen occasions when the 1st Doctor said something a bit old fashioned and Capaldi’s Doctor has to shame the character by shouting ‘you can’t say that!’ Moffat knows it wasn’t actually like that in 60s Who, but for laughs or to score points, it’s a disservice to the early years of the series which pioneered by a female producer and indian director was never going to be crude and thoughtless. If you took the sum of all the dubious things Hartnell’s Doctor said over his three year span you’d barely amount the total of the moments crammed into this story. It was much better handled in the Five Doctors, where his attitude was recognised, but you weren’t beaten over the head about it.
Thinking it over, the episode seemed to me to be a slightly self-congratulatory swan song for Moffat from Moffat.
There's no doubt he's achieved a lot, but IMO he had outstayed his welcome a few years ago.
I enjoyed the ending with the sudden appearance of Jodie Whittaker. (After giving it a lot of thought, I hate the new outfit that has been shown in publicity stlls.)
To be fair, I was rather sozzled when I watched this episode.
I understood what you meant fine - I'm saying that plenty of people over here consider being "anti-military"(ie, anti-war)
You obviously did not if you consider those to be the same thing. Being anti-war is a perfectly reasonable position. Being anti-military, deliberately and specifically targeting individuals and treating them like crap because they served in the military is an entirely different thing, and pretty much a constant of the Capaldi/Clara seasons, especially with the boyfriend. The stark difference was made pretty clear in this special, given the worshipful attitude that appears once the Captain's identity was made clear. Given the way this Doctor had been written during his run, I completely expected a sneer. Hence why I think they're glossing over the negatives for this send off.
EDIT: Also, when did taking the time on occasion to reflect on your own actions and whether or not they were ethical and just become a negative thing?
Never. But then, Capaldi's Doctor never did that. He simply didn't remember much of himself and was constantly demanding quick and easy answers out of Clara for the first season. That's what 'am I good man?' was about. Not self-reflection, but a needy whine for assurance.
Frankly I think you're projecting far more emotion and malice onto this Doctor than was actually present, and that your determination to see him as "anti-military"(and again, I got your point just fine, there's a reason for those quotation marks) is causing you to treat war-weary cynicism and pointed humour as something more than that.
Again - the level of reverence for the military you're used to simply isn't a thing for most folk over here, hell I've known ex-squaddies who talk about the service with the same cynical tone and lack of superficial respect this Doctor displays.
but its a nu-Who tradition to drag back companions that have forgotten or cant be arsed to relearn the accent, and whilst Jenna's wasn't as Van Dyke as Billie's it was erring on Queeny V rather than Clara of t'North (Pond gets a pass cos reasons)
I hate the ad. Only because of the music choice, it’s so in who that it actively disinterests me. Take it out and add a more suitable musical choice and I’m certain I’d be getting excited for the new series
statu wrote: I hate the ad. Only because of the music choice, it’s so in who that it actively disinterests me. Take it out and add a more suitable musical choice and I’m certain I’d be getting excited for the new series
I was just going to post a very similar thing, the music was very 'yoof' targeted and I really hope there's a lot less of it in the actual show
Interested to at least see the first few (before they start re-using the new special effects ad nausieum)
I wasn't particularly interested in the new series until I saw this clip. She has really nailed the role from what I can see, I can see quite a bit of Tennant (fun loving) and Eccelston ("smart boy!") in her performance as well which is cool!
The ad at the end (to click the link below) is a bit jarring, just for highlighting her actual accent vs. her character accent. It seemed overly thick as a first impression (Tongue!), but then afterwards it just draws attention to the fact that, yeah, it was.
The Guardian pre-retrospectivises the Jodie Whittaker Doctor favourably and does a nice roundup of the preceding modern era in "The modern-era Doctors, rated"
The plot is annoying me. If they're going to introduce things as a mystery, don't bring honking great plot holes along.
Those two scrawny guys couldn't haul a (too-cold-to-touch) pod with that thing inside through a forest even assuming they could find it in the first place (which is a hard ask from 'weather patterns')
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But the characters seem workable stereotypes that can be fleshed out over time (the Doubter, the Healer, and the Overachieving Protector stymied by inexperience and the system).
Except Ryan, who seems in danger of being a recurring disability plot point and the one who feths up by touching things. And opens web pages. >.>
Jodie seems good, but she is perhaps channelling Tennant at his most manic a bit too much.
That was fun The Doctor feels a bit generic, but then they always are with a fresh actor in the role. Looking forward to Whittaker putting her own stamp on the character. Seeing Sheffield(especially parts I recognized) on Who was equal parts great and really odd though
Watching it now - thought I would give it a try and see if the shows become watchable.
Seems.....ok - well at least the cast and tone.
Spoiler:
Truely laughable "warrior" race - thats what they call a challange - kill a random human - at least Predators went after people with weapons. What else does it have to do to prove itself. fight off a baby rabbit with its superpowers and armoured suit
First one always gets a pass as it has to set up so much new stuff. Stenza warrior seemed awful. Teeth thing was weird. The 'challenge' was laughable. No matter, they won't be seen again.
Ryan seems uniquely useless... "I can check social media!" Wow, good skills there guy. I get he's got a disability but watching a grown man fail to ride a bike is too comic a sight to get the heart strings going, they should have picked something else.
Yaz was underused. Was so keen to do more at the start then sort of just stood in the group for the rest of the episode.
Bradley Walsh was... Bradley Walsh.
By the end we're all going to wish Grace survived because she seemed like the person who could best get things done.
The new arrangement for the theme is interesting, they've moved away from the bombastic recent versions and it feels a little more like the older 60s/70s trippy style. Not sure I prefer it but it's not bad.
Mr Morden wrote: Watching it now - thought I would give it a try and see if the shows become watchable.
Seems.....ok - well at least the cast and tone.
Spoiler:
Truely laughable "warrior" race - thats what they call a challange - kill a random human - at least Predators went after people with weapons. What else does it have to do to prove itself. fight off a baby rabbit with its superpowers and armoured suit
Spoiler:
I feel the whole point was the finding of the quarry, where this guy totally cheated. I may have got the wrong end of the stick, but that’s where I saw the challenge being, and indeed, can understand why such skill would make for a good leader (deductive reasoning and that)
But even if I’m wrong on that count (needs a second watch, which is no bad thing), the show certainly seems to be offering a new breath of life. Now that works for me, YMMV Dear Reader. But the focus on the drama and characters over ‘ahhh, sod it. Sonic or Psychic Paper’ is getting back to what I like most about the show.
I mean here, we see more of The Doctor taking control, because that’s what The Doctor does. Always has done. Over reliance on the Sonic and psychic sodding paper massively detracted from the ‘walk like you’re meant to be there, act like you’re in charge, and people just won’t question it’ that served for so, so many years. Because ultimately it’s true, though Dr Who has always pushed it that little bit further :p
Baddie I felt was decent in terms of design and execution and portrayal. May be a one show wonder, but in terms of the plot, could be adapted and revisited to different degrees in subsequent stories.
Most definitely a very, very strong start.
Whittaker is particularly excellent. And loved seeing The Doctor get all clever with what’s around them. Another welcome string to proceedings.
Voss wrote: The plot is annoying me. If they're going to introduce things as a mystery, don't bring honking great plot holes along.
Those two scrawny guys couldn't haul a (too-cold-to-touch) pod with that thing inside through a forest even assuming they could find it in the first place (which is a hard ask from 'weather patterns')
Spoiler:
That, and the whole "the complete transference was physical as well, so somehow you also transferred all the bombs I put in that thing, but that thing still obviously has all its faculties and is indeed trying to help you out at this moment in time, and you've not started sprouting bionic electro-tendrils, so how exactly that complete transference was also physical, except to conveniently end the episode when the writers forgot to put an ending in until the last night before script submission, is anyone's guess."
IMO, it was a poor episode saved by a solid cast. I'd hope the writing gets better later on, because I want to see these characters in their primes supported by the script, rather than being bogged down in it and having to put all their efforts into carrying it. As season-openers go, especially fresh cast openers, it was passable and far from the worst. I'll have to see how it develops.
Kilkrazy wrote: The blue-skinned tooth-face bad-guy was instantly forgettable, IMO.
What was his name, Ian Staines? If he never comes back, he won't be missed.
However you don't waste a major villain on the introductory episode.
The individual? Yes, totally disposable, and again no bad thing for a first opening episode.
But in terms of future stories, what little we gleaned of their culture is definitely interesting, and stands up to further investigation.
Consider the first Weeping Angels episode. If you’ll excuse the pun, too much was set in stone. So every time they reappeared, the threat diminished.
The new aliens? Not presented as ‘all powerful’. Instead, we get a glimpse into their culture. And no more. Narratively, they could, if they wish, develop in any number of ways.
There never should have been any more weeping angels episodes after the first one. Just because an episode is great, doesn't mean there's any mileage in the monsters.
Kilkrazy wrote: The blue-skinned tooth-face bad-guy was instantly forgettable, IMO.
What was his name, Ian Staines? If he never comes back, he won't be missed.
However you don't waste a major villain on the introductory episode.
The individual? Yes, totally disposable, and again no bad thing for a first opening episode.
But in terms of future stories, what little we gleaned of their culture is definitely interesting, and stands up to further investigation.
No it doesn't. What we're explicitly told about their culture is they select their leaders by
Spoiler:
kidnapping rando, everyday humans, selected by lottery. Apparently ones in their late teens/early twenties who are extraordinarily helpless. And that determines Supreme Leadership of a 'Warrior Race' that considers itself relevant, and they have to cheat to accomplish that little.
Also they take trophies of the helpless victims they happen across and murder for no reason. Not trophies of worthy adversaries or impressive kills, but drunks and old men. Physically and culturally, they're the Ice Warriors of Mars, Take Two, but less impressive and with far less to be proud of.
This is the kind of one-off race that you shove behind the cupboard and pretend you never thought of.
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Riquende wrote:Ryan seems uniquely useless... "I can check social media!" Wow, good skills there guy. I get he's got a disability but watching a grown man fail to ride a bike is too comic a sight to get the heart strings going, they should have picked something else.
For me it kicked me off with contempt for Grandma and Granddad. They start off by treating a grown twenty something like he's six. 'Ride to Grandpa, Ryan, Ride to Grandpa. Oh, you tried so hard.'
But yeah, carrying on, his function in the episode was pretty bare bones computer use.
Everyone else seems like a well-fleshed out character in an pen and paper RPG, with contacts, resources, motivations, complex backstories. He's... this guy that showed up late and forgot his character sheet. The only thing he remembers is his Flaw. And I'm left with the terrible impression it will be the only thing the writers remember, going forward.
Yaz was underused. Was so keen to do more at the start then sort of just stood in the group for the rest of the episode.
As Khan, she has the most potential. Eager and motivated and wants to help, but simultaneously inexperienced and with little idea of how to meaningfully help (the sort of person who, at the moment, would give a fish rather than teach fishing), and burdened with bureaucracy.
All sorts of possibilities to unwrap there with what motivations and problems are driving her.
Bradley Walsh was... Bradley Walsh.
Supporting cast is fine. Dragging him along for the whole season seems potentially tedious. Someone to explain and pontificate at, I guess.
By the end we're all going to wish Grace
Eh. The problem with her character is she's already everything the Doctor wants her companions to be... always ready to be caring, compassionate and proactive. There really isn't a show there. it'd be like watching Martha Jones, but starting at the end of her season when she's learned all the lessons (and prior to going crazy with UNIT during Donna's run).
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Mad Doc wrote:But the focus on the drama and characters over ‘ahhh, sod it. Sonic or Psychic Paper’ is getting back to what I like most about the show.
Except, you know, new Sonic, and solving everything (both on and off camera) with it.
Making it was kind of neat, but it rather easily hoovered up every problem she couldn't deal with.
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I do think it was better than Capaldi's opener, but for all the PR and marketing about a new era of Who and brand new reveals, it was rather... standard. Not bad, but solidly average modern Who. With a terrible monster of the week.
TBH, that's kind of why I enjoyed it. They managed to almost entirely sidestep any preachy stuff and just made a fairly average episode of Doctor Who, which is what I want out of, you know, Doctor Who.
The main time travel show I've been watching recently is "Legends of Tomorrow" and since it's been a while since I last saw Who that was my main points of reference.
The good. The cast was absolutely great, Jodie and the companions. I like that Bradley Walsh got his own mini heroes journey during the episode.
You are right that Ryan felt a bit useless but he should have potential there where he was talking about wanting to be a mechanic. It was a out they didn't use that during the 'Doctor builds stuff' scenes.
The bad.
Doctor Who does "Predator" in a really overly complex and unneeded way. So many irrelevant and unused plot angles. - the guys sister, the "suspended between life and death" trophies. The dumb plot resolution.
I can't help but think they were seeing things up for a future episode or a two pattern, then went 'nah, screw it' and left it in like an abandoned KOTOR2 questline.
And I will say that, if the show was Legends, they would have had far more fun with the Predator angle. I was very disappointed that we didn't get a scene of:
Walsh: "You are one ugly motherf..."
Doctor: "Language! There's children watching. *Points to Has and Ryan* And don't judge aliens on their appearance."
Alien: *Growls*
Doctor: "But... This time you might be right."
*Everyone runs*
Those two scrawny guys couldn't haul a (too-cold-to-touch) pod with that thing inside through a forest even assuming they could find it in the first place (which is a hard ask from 'weather patterns') .
Really? How much does an alien transport pod weigh?
I enjoyed it. JW nailed the role, IMO, and I'm looking forward to seeing where she goes with it.
Also curious to see if the pacing stays the same going forwards. It's noticeably less go-go-go than has been the norm for the last however many years...
Just going to echo what most people seem to think; Jodie great, rest of cast good, episode meh. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
I think it was a smart move to give the companions pre-existing relationships, so they don't have to get diverted on setting those up and I was quite pleased with how Bradley Walsh worked out (that was the casting choice I was really worried about). Was also nice to see Dr Who in the north!
Those two scrawny guys couldn't haul a (too-cold-to-touch) pod with that thing inside through a forest even assuming they could find it in the first place (which is a hard ask from 'weather patterns') .
Really? How much does an alien transport pod weigh?
Given all the stuff in the workshop, I just assumed they had used a winch or a trolley or similar.
True. But there at least needs to be some description of it.
Consider Remebrance of the Daleks, and The Doctor’s scrambler device. It’s effective in terms of use, and plot.
That’s all I ask of the script. I just don’t want to see it reduced ‘oh FFS don’t lock them in tool shed, haven’t you read up!’ A-Team type get out clauses. Fun as they are, it’s a trope for a reason
Otherwise, it’s just waving the Sonic by any other description. Show us the smarts and thought behind it, even if it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny (that we can put down to The Doctor not having the time or possibly inclination to really explain it). For instance, in The Dalek Invasion Of Earth. Using a plastic comb to overcome a magnetic lock. It’s utter bunkum when you stop and think (spesh as such things are commonplace nowadays, and an effective security measure). But there it worked, because it wasn’t just handwavium. There was a logic and explanation behind it, and in that specific example even a reason why something that shouldn’t have worked actually worked.
Compare to the ‘you didn’t even try the door, did you’ from the otherwise superb Day of the Doctor. Looking back, that was a self-critique that Moffat identifies, but doesn’t really address later on. Which was a waste.
But she totally does just end up waving the Sonic about. Her theories are wacky and wrong til she starts sonic-ing things, and she never bothers to put it down afterwards, to the point that the immediate problem (their collarbones) is just handwvaved out of existence.
Those two scrawny guys couldn't haul a (too-cold-to-touch) pod with that thing inside through a forest even assuming they could find it in the first place (which is a hard ask from 'weather patterns') .
Really? How much does an alien transport pod weigh?...
Well, it has a humanoid inside, so 150 pounds minimum (reasonably more, given his size), plus his full body armor with refrigeration and gadgets, plus whatever the pod is made out of. If we're being kind about super space age plastics, probably still about 300 at the very least, and that's being overly nice about it.
And that's dragging the thing around trees, roots and rocks and things in the dark (Ryan doesn't leave til sundown), and what he's walking through isn't conducive to trolleys, winches or carts.
Plus it was 'too cold to touch,' and the guy was getting cold just watching it from several feet away.
Loved it. Jodie is a superb actress I loved her in broadchurch. Obviously this is a massively different role for her and she is carrying it off superbly. It also looks like she is having fun doing it.
Voss wrote: But she totally does just end up waving the Sonic about. Her theories are wacky and wrong til she starts sonic-ing things, and she never bothers to put it down afterwards, to the point that the immediate problem (their collarbones) is just handwvaved out of existence.
Those two scrawny guys couldn't haul a (too-cold-to-touch) pod with that thing inside through a forest even assuming they could find it in the first place (which is a hard ask from 'weather patterns') .
Really? How much does an alien transport pod weigh?...
Well, it has a humanoid inside, so 150 pounds minimum (reasonably more, given his size), plus his full body armor with refrigeration and gadgets, plus whatever the pod is made out of. If we're being kind about super space age plastics, probably still about 300 at the very least, and that's being overly nice about it.
And that's dragging the thing around trees, roots and rocks and things in the dark (Ryan doesn't leave til sundown), and what he's walking through isn't conducive to trolleys, winches or carts.
Plus it was 'too cold to touch,' and the guy was getting cold just watching it from several feet away.
Insulated gloves. And it had some form of suspensor for fuel efficiency on the journey.
The Doctor still hand crafted a Sonic out of junk. In about an hour, tops.
Your next whine?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Knockagh wrote: Loved it. Jodie is a superb actress I loved her in broadchurch. Obviously this is a massively different role for her and she is carrying it off superbly. It also looks like she is having fun doing it.
As I think I mentioned, she’s got the authority thing down. Crashes through a roof, takes control of the situation to the point that nobody ever stops or even thinks ‘who put you in charge?’.
Confidence and charm. That’s what it takes. And she’s got it in spades
Honest Trailers have put up a couple of TV ones for Who (both classic and modern) to go with the new series. Highlight for me is the description of the Doctor as a 'Spatial Justice Warrior'.
Riquende wrote: Honest Trailers have put up a couple of TV ones for Who (both classic and modern) to go with the new series. Highlight for me is the description of the Doctor as a 'Spatial Justice Warrior'.
It's blink-and-you'll-miss-it, but it is great!
As for the new episode; I liked it; she's got some real potential, and did a good job of mixing in some bits and pieces of past doctors into her performance. Looking forward to more.
I didn't expect the (what's their names again? I'm calling them the Shaws) Shaws to be recurring baddies, but I can't say it's a bad choice. We have an idea about their culture. Martial Pride, but not necessarily Warriors. They seem like the kind of race who seek to prove themselves over other races, but not necessarily through warfare exactly. The impression I got from Tim Shaw was that his goal wasn't to necessarily kill and defeat this prey, but to hunt him and find him. The location was the challenge, and it seemed like they didn't really care if the planet they hunted on was home to more hostile creatures. They were accepted on the world, and that's enough for them.
It would have made a bit more sense, in my opinion, if it had been Ryan who was the prey, or if Carl had been the one to press the floaty space button "allowing" Tim Shaw to hunt on Earth, but I'm ultimately not that bothered.
We have an alien race with a decent look to them (blue skinned wrinklies with teeth embedded and cold attacks), and we have enough about their culture in the last two episodes to set them up as adversaries to the Doctor. We don't necessarily need anything related to the Doctor's past, just an opponent who can challenge the Doctor's idealogies.
As far as this latest episode goes, I only struggled once, and that was towards the end, with the "the Doctor and her companions are stranded!" fakeout. I would have suggested fixing this by having the games master guy either only take one of the competitors (against both of their will), or taking neither. Then, the Doctor can take the survivors to their home planets, or wherever they want to go, and then, we get the establishing shot of Earth as the next location for dropping the gang off.
Having the Doctor figuring out stuff as we do is nice. We don't have a Doctor who knows EVERYTHING, but we have one who is clearly competent and has their own agency. They are still challenged by encounters, but can figure out solutions without resorting to unknown facts. The cigar, for example, is foreshadowed. The gas, I'm not sure if it was shown it was flammable, but by saying it was lighter than air was good writing. Combining those facts the audience knew makes for a good problem solving sequence.
Like the Doctor's new look, love the Sheffield Swiss Screwdriver (made with Sheffield Steel!) and the new TARDIS is cool. A little dark for my liking, but I like the hourglass and the food dispenser!
She's doing well, although she seems to channel Tennant's energy a bit at times for me. I'm still not a fan of Ryan, but Graham's growing on me (he really shouldn't be pushing the 'grandpa' thing though. Ryan is a grown man, it's stupid). Yaz struggling to find her spot in the ensemble, I think 3 companions is a bit of a squeeze. I know it was done historically but those stories were serialised over 4, 6 or sometimes 10 episodes, moved slower and gave more opportunities for a bigger cast to split up and do stuff. We'll see how it pans out.
The episode itself was... okay, I guess. They were walking fairly leisurely for it being a 'race' and being on a desert planet with no drinkable water or food of any kind wasn't deemed worth a mention somehow (a bag of jelly babies wouldn't have gone amiss). The floating paper monsters were hard to take seriously but I guess they've laid the seed of the season arc. As someone who didn't like the concept of the Stenza I'm not happy to have their name crop up again.
"What is that?"
"...it's a tent."
Next week's already looked to me like an episode of Quantum Leap, and then they went and mentioned fixing the timelines! At the end of the episode they'll be hoping their next leap will be the leap... home.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Ryan is 19, I thought - he's still not fully a man yet.
19 is still well old enough to be able to choose to not ever call a step-grandparent "grandpa" though; I'd think any teenager would balk at it to be honest. Graham just comes across as a bit weird for trying to force the issue is all.
I called my grandpa, grandpa until he died, when I was in my mid 20's. It wouldn't seem odd that, considering everything that's happened, Graham is trying to foster and keep that feeling of a family unit.
Ugh jeebus, made the mistake of reading the DoG review - apparently a two sentence exchange between Ryan and Graham means the show is making a "timely" attempt to "tackle toxic masculinity in young men"
So is that the new "mansplaining" now then - a term that had a useful meaning but ends up so diluted by over- and mis-use it just comes to mean whatever any given woke thinkpiece author wants it to mean.
You can't even have a basic moment of character establishing dialogue now without it being picked apart through the lens of gender studies, christ just let them actually show us who these people are for more than one episode before deciding they're going to become avatars of your political bugbears.
Anyway, the episode itself was solid if a little...lightweight? Bradley Walsh surprises me by continuing to not make me want to punch him over and over in his big gormless face, which is a nice change from every other character he's played that I've seen. Not a huge fan of the new TARDIS design, it's a bit unwelcoming and sterile compared to the last few versions, like a weird alien ship that the gang has a one-off adventure in rather than the Doctor's home. Points for the biscuit dispenser though, hah.
I called my grandpa, grandpa until he died, when I was in my mid 20's.
Same for me with both my grandmothers, who were always 'gran' and 'grandma'. But they had been since I was a baby, and here I'm specifically talking about step-relatives who join the family when someone is an adult (or near it). If my gran when I was 16 had suddenly got married to a guy from her choir called Cuthbert then he'd have never been 'grandpa' to me. And if he'd kept badgering me about it then it could end up a problem.
Bradley Walsh surprises me by continuing to not make me want to punch him over and over in his big gormless face, which is a nice change from every other character he's played that I've seen. [/i]
Aside from my whiny griping about the above I agree with this, and it reminds me of Catherine Tate (who I intensely dislike) and her portrayal of Donna (who was by far my favourite Tennant companion).
Good concept overall but the Stenza (blue face tooth pulling aliens) already failed as a monster in my eyes so I'm not pleased to see them flagged as a major villain.
The visuals were great. The colour treatment made the alien planet look great.
A bit too much sonic screwdriver. For example, couldn't the hatch to the underground simply have been opened by its wheel?
Didn't much like the new Tardis but I'm hoping if we spend a bit more time looking at it, it will become less of a high concept and more of a real place.
Good concept overall but the Stenza (blue face tooth pulling aliens) already failed as a monster in my eyes so I'm not pleased to see them flagged as a major villain.
The visuals were great. The colour treatment made the alien planet look great.
A bit too much sonic screwdriver. For example, couldn't the hatch to the underground simply have been opened by its wheel?
Didn't much like the new Tardis but I'm hoping if we spend a bit more time looking at it, it will become less of a high concept and more of a real place.
I'd agree with most of this (especially the big bads and the sonic), except the tardis. I'm a little puzzled by the crystal formations, but I don't think I saw a wide enough shot to really have much of opinion on how the whole interior looks.
I did find the change to the entrance really interesting. Previously, we go that th sense that the tardis was wholly within the police box shell. Now however, there is an entrance space that is the police box, and the tardis proper is a separate space beyond it and simply attached to the back. It probably doesn't mean anything and likely won't get addressed, but to me it visually feels like a different take on the 'dimensional engineering' involved. And a different use of and conceptualization of space.
A bit too much sonic screwdriver. For example, couldn't the hatch to the underground simply have been opened by its wheel?
Yes. Yes it could. And it also probably could have been closed after them to avoid the "oh no they've found the hatch" moment.
Oh, I also didn't like the "Call of Duty" bit.
That got a legitimate chuckle out of me. It's exactly what I'd expect a 19 year old to do, only let down was the lack of anything resembling consequences.
What amazed me is they managed to make me despise the writing on the bad villains even more. They could have written off Tim as a bad egg from a race with daft and bad leadership practices, but instead we get mustache twirling evil with genocide, making WMDs and Dementors. Really, this lacks any sense of depth or nuance, and I have no idea how they're going to work it out into something meaningful.
The plots are very weak so far - Crappy Predator for Ep 1 and Hunger Games on easy mode for Ep 2.
The teeth "Warrior race" people are a major bad guy - oh dear thats poor.
The cast are doing there best with some lazy writing. Give it a couple more episodes.
I know the Doc hates guns - but Yeah Call of Duy was fun - wish it had worked rather than having to resort to bombs and explosives ....which are apparently totally different and fine
I liked that she admits she is wrong now and again - something thats been needed for a long time, just hope they tone down the bloody Screwdriver and don;t have start whining about "oh no I only have partially immortality" like the rescent ones.
The group dynamic is also feeling more collaborative.
Ryan and Graham are really growing on me. Yaz needs more work. But, looking at synopses for the next four episodes, that’s rectified in due course. More info on DenofGeek.
As for the possible season baddies? I’m hoping we might see some Times-Wimey problem solving.
We don’t know the time setting for Episode 2. It could be after Episode 1, or before it. If it’s after, The Doctor may want to see why they went from Single Hunts to Genocide, try to skip them onto a different path. If it’s before? Perhaps The Doctor set the rules for them?
There’s a lot we could see - or it could be an entirely throwaway lined there to provoke chatter online.
I didn't get a sense that there was a time component to her teleport at the end of episode 1. But you never really know with Who.
And I'd expect most 19 years olds to just literally wet themselves going from using a controller to a live-fire life or death situation. Ryan hasn't seemed the most confident type at most things but he was just chomping at the bit to go shoot guns at things trying to shoot him back?
Also, when the ship crashed, why did none of them think to run sideways out of the way, rather than just directly away in the direction of travel? I get that the sides were sloped, but it was was shallow incline...
Also, when the ship crashed, why did none of them think to run sideways out of the way, rather than just directly away in the direction of travel? I get that the sides were sloped, but it was was shallow incline...
That seems to be a trope. I don't know how or why, but it also shows up in that weird Alien prequel(ish) movie thing amongst others.. The only time I can think of it where it was acceptable was Raiders of the Lost Ark, simply because there was no 'sideways' to run to.
AegisGrimm wrote: I wonder if the Timeless Child will end up being the Doctor's daughter. I always lamented how that was too great a concept for a one-off.
I really, really hope not. "We have a lady Doctor now, better stick a kiddywink in there" is also something of a mixed message.
AegisGrimm wrote: I wonder if the Timeless Child will end up being the Doctor's daughter. I always lamented how that was too great a concept for a one-off.
I really, really hope not. "We have a lady Doctor now, better stick a kiddywink in there" is also something of a mixed message.
The Doctor's daughter presumably being the "clone" made of David Tennant. Georgia Moffet.
Didn't they also throw Toby Jones in there as some malevolent powerful entity (dreams, nightmares etc) and then never use him again?
An alternative I thought, was maybe Yas doing it, stating that, instead of it being a CoD reference, she mentions that she had taken Fire training (as part of her aspect of being unsatisfied in her junior police role) and she was considering joining the Firearms Unit.
Then, her action is more precise, as she returns to fetch the rest.
Then the robots rise up, The Doctor lectures.
And Yas nods in understanding, taking the lesson on board.
I think Ryan’s spot of big dakka worked. So far, we know Yaz has a heroic nature, because she’s a Copper. You don’t get into that for particularly selfish reasons (not in the U.K. anyways).
Graham? He’s showing strengths elsewhere.
Ryan works for it. He’s still blown away at being on another planet. Perhaps the reality of the situation has been pushed to one side by the awe of the experience.
We made living cloth that hunts you down and strangles you.
Ok that’s cool.
And it can read your mind and know your past and your fears.
Uh, ok, sure why not.
And it uses that information to flutter around and taunt you for awhile before it kills you.
Wait what? Why?
ing brilliant! Simm's grand reveal was fantastically over the top without being comedic, Gomez as 'Doctor Who' was hilarious and the script was excellent.
