It seems now that Runewars has dropped that a good chunk of our tournament scene has snatched it up. Kings of War really has no presence here, but it looks like Runewars could be posed to overtake pretty much any fantasy-based game where I am due to FFG having a world championship title and tournament series for their games.

How is your community reacting to it?

Not much traction around me, as far as I can tell. I think it looks good but it will suffer from the typical problems of new FFG games for a while yet:

1. Limited options at launch with only 2 factions
2. Delay in getting new factions/units to market

Those 2 things seem to have left a lot of people in the "wait and see" camp as the tournament types don't want to get into a game with so few options at this stage. That might change once more of those options are available.

It's worth noting it's pretty similar to how Armada was received around here (Scotland, UK). Quite a bit of enthusiasm but not a huge number of people willing to spend the money...yet.

Zero.

Haven't seen any reaction yet, but I really don't pay much attention to hype, buzz or what FFG do.

My 9th age/KoW army is just my repurposed old 8th ed WHFB High Elf army and I don't need to add more to it for the one tourney a year I play it.

It's been very well received. Lots of people are trying it out. My one local store sold something like 20 core boxes within a day or two. Another local store sold another 20 or so. Multiple reasons why.

#1 - FFG makes solid games. X-Wing isn't the number one game just because it has TIE Fighters. It's well designed, easy to learn and fun to play. Runewars is also well designed, easy to learn and fun to play. As more people try it, I think more people will be sold on it.

#2 - It's comparatively cheap. Sure, the models aren't nearly as elaborate as some of the GW options, but the cost is so little. Find a friend, each buy a core set and swap faction models. That gives you roughly enough models to build a full, tournament legal list. You'll probably want to buy model later to have more options, but $100 less whatever discounts you find gives you a full, tournament legal army. I spent $80. I'll probably end up spending another $50-100 maybe 2-3 times per year.

Even the places near me that are packed with FFG (mainly xwing) players don't seem to have any interest

the perception seems to be the game is expensive (the pound to dollar conversion is not favourable, especially with how badly pound is doing post brexit)

Nobody's terribly exited about the minis, the folk who paint don't like them much (too toylike or Warcraft like) the folk who like xwings prepaints are sad this needs painting

there has been some interest in the elves though so once the new factions are out

and people see if FFG really is avoiding the Xwing 'buy all the things even if you don';t play that faction you'll need the cards' (not so bad with xwing as the ships display well even if you don't play them)

it might start getting some traction

Haven't seen much take up yet - none of the local gaming stores are doing much to promote it (whereas they all push their X-Wing, Magic and AoS nights).

In all fairness, the game has only been out in the wild for less than a week. Tomorrow marks day 7. I'm not really surprised that there aren't leagues and dedicated game nights at stores yet. There hasn't been time.

I do get the Brexit comment though. The GBP's value dropping is going to make everything made outside the UK feel more expensive. When your money is worth less to the rest of the world, you have to use more of it to buy the same things if they're not made at home.

The two local stores that do tons of X-Wing and FFG board games and LCGs have...

... not stocked it or talked about it or took preorders or showed any promo stuff at all. As far as the local retailers go, it seems to not exist.

I haven't heard anything myself. I personally don't care for the way X-Wing/Armada play, and I'm not a big fan of the models for Runewars either. I'm also way too into AoS

Destiny Star Wars sold out... :/

ced1106 wrote:
Destiny Star Wars sold out... :/

Color me confused. How is this relevant to how Runewars is doing?

Who makes Destiny Star Wars (er, Star Wars: Destiny)?

It's got one demo at my LGS and a bit of buzz but in so far it's got little going on. Tbh the current bloodbowl tournament and preparation for it, combined with our AoS campaign are sucking too much manpower.

ced1106 wrote:
Who makes Destiny Star Wars (er, Star Wars: Destiny)?

That doesn't really answer the question. Obviously, FFG makes Star Wars Destiny. FFG also makes a ton of other games. How does Star Wars Destiny selling out offer insight as to how well Runewars is doing in your area? Are you hinting that Runewars also sold out? Is that because it's super popular or because there aren't enough boxes to go around? Elaborate, my friend.

 Kriswall wrote:
Elaborate, my friend.

FFG does indeed publish many other games -- and that's the problem. If, like Frostgrave or Kings of War, RW was FFG's "flagship" game, perhaps they'd have more of an incentive to support it longer than they would. FFG has dropped game lines in the past (eg. Silver Line brand, Battlelore, Call of Cthulhu LCG, GW-licensed games), meaning that, if RW doesn't sell as well as its other game lines, it may be chopped, too.

Asmodee has acquired many game companies, and, while this may be selective bias, the tendency of the acquired game companies is to sell their "evergreen" games (eg. Mayfair's Settlers franchise, Days of Wonder's Small World and Ticket to Ride games), rather than publish new games that appeal to a smaller audience. FFG, then, looks like it's publishing more "lifestyle" games, such as Star Wars Destiny, Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Arkham Horror LCG, Android LCG, etc., I think, on the theory that, once they hook a player into a "lifestyle" game line, it will be easier to make money on FFG products than, say, if FFG releases multiple different games, like it did in the Silver Line and coffin box days. (BTW, FFG also will revise a boardgame (eg. Eldritch Horror, Descent 2nd edition, Runebound 3rd edition, Battlelore 2nd edition, Drakon 2nd edition)).

What this pretty much all adds up to is that not only is RW competing against other "rank and file" wargames, it's competing against other "lifestyle" games FFG already publishes. FFG, unlike many game companies, such as Steve Jackson Games, doesn't seem to keep around games that may not bring in as much money as their other games, but still appeals to a small niche (eg. with SJG, they bring in the money with Munchkin, but still support Ogre, Illuminati, and Car Wars). Dropping your less successful lines is what businesses do, but it results in customers reluctant to spend hundreds of dollars in a product line that customers want to have new product or events in years to come.

Despite what BGG'ers say about mechanics, I think IP is a stronger pull than game mechanics. I should look closer at the BGG Star Wars Destiny forum, but, on both BGG and Dakka, there're threads of gamers reluctant to pick up RW. That's not a good sign, when you're looking at new games right and left on BGG, and the usual threads of hype and excitement. The FFG Star Wars X-Wing forum reiterates the concerns raised on other BGG and Dakka threads about RW : https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/246907-rune-wing/ EDIT: Meanwhile, on the SWD forum, threads are posting of BGG'ers who are unhappy they can't get the game. To me, that shows Star Wars Destiny has a greater demand than RW. : https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/205359/star-wars-destiny/forums/0

If you like a game, support it. Many of use fence-sitters are waiting for more dedicated players to spend the hundreds of dollars to support the game, as well as run and participate in events to know there's sufficient community interest in the game. Don't ask how your community is reacting. Build that community if you want other games to play RW.

Me and 2 other people have picked up the game at the FLGS. That's about it. We have a feeling we will be the only 3 playing it for awhile too unless some of the big x-wing crowd decides to try it out. Which isn't very likely.

My local group of disgruntled former Warhammer players are interested in it. I'm the only one who put an order in, but I have not got it yet. For our group, the long term prospects of the game probably depend on how FFG handles things. Several of the guys are frustrated with FFG's handling of X-wing and have given up on that, but that is a little different since as a group, we never played X-Wing much. They just played in a local competitive scene for a while.

Both copies of the base game we got in are (or were yesterday) still sitting on the new release shelf.

Some of the guys that went to Adepticon brought (free) Boxes home and have shown off the minis and are going to start playing some games to see how it goes. No one around here seemed impressed by the starter box, though the wurm skelllies were noted with curious intentions for Necropolis Knights.

Other than having two base factions that can fit into other games, it doesn't really have a whole lot of a appeal to many in my area... I assume from what I've observed.

Hard pass from everyone I know, though suddenly everyone is buzzing about Age of Sigmar, so we got that going for us I guess.

There's already a local FB group in my area and eyeing the Elves. FFG's announcement of 12 soon to be released expansions I think sealed the deal for several potential players.

I'm not sure what we can meaningfully glean from one week. Some areas are going to have more early adopters than others, that's no surprise. To try and predict the health of a game over say the next few years before launch or shortly after launch is a little ludicrous. Liquidity and success can not be predicted. So the extreme predictions I see in some of these threads (primarily it was in the pre-release thread) make me laugh. Having said that we've had quite a few early adopters around my way, I was one, and one the What Would Patton Do podcast gentleman was one as well. Our Community Facebook page has about 20 members with maybe 70 to 80% of them actually owning the game. There is also a skirmish tournament planned for next month. So I suppose it's doing well here.

On a side note the LGS itself is often a barrier, I say this because in my experience most LGS operate under the assumption that a game should sell itself, rather than the staff of the store should run demo's and have sales staff suggest the game to the appropriate customer. Then they will throw their hands up in the air and proclaim the game is terrible because it doesn't sell in their store. This endeavor may be a foolish one but it seems to be the attitude of many LGS stores.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:
There's already a local FB group in my area and eyeing the Elves. FFG's announcement of 12 soon to be released expansions I think sealed the deal for several potential players.

15 Expansions actually before the end of the year, with the furthest out being given a rough eta of third quarter.

I've never heard of this game - both FLGS's do not have it

I'll look it up now I guess

I haven't tried it. It looks interesting, and I'm curious what happens since FFG is known for highly tuned, competitive rules and Runewars seems like it could also be that way.

I don't know anyone who has jumped onto it though. I do want to try it out, but don't want to buy the box set.

The local store is getting invested. They've got an assembled starter box on display, with plans to start a league in the near future.

To me it just looks pretty bland.

Without Maelstrom or objective based missions I would have little to no interest in 40k.

To me there needs to be more depth and tactical decision making than running at your opponent, locking into melee, and resolving the game.

It could be that Rune Wars is far more tactical than what i've seen. I honestly don't know. But i'm not going out of my way to learn if it is or not, because my first impression was unfavorable.

Additionally, launching with 2 factions didn't seem wise. The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Finally, they don't offer any other gameplay modes besides 1v1. If they had a game mode that supported something NEW, like a true free-for-all style gameplay where you could have 1v1v1v1, or something, i'd be more inclined to look at it. Just seems like more of the same in a diminished capacity.

Call it what you will. This is how I reacted.

 Marmatag wrote:
The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Yes why on earth would a skeleton ride a CARRION crawler?

Because carrion is meat?

Wayniac wrote:
I haven't tried it. It looks interesting, and I'm curious what happens since FFG is known for highly tuned, competitive rules and Runewars seems like it could also be that way.

More known for power creep and annoyingly packaged upgrade cards around here.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Because carrion is meat?

To be clear, I was being a bit sarcastic. I mean it's literally a giant dangerous worm that likes to roam underground especially in tombs. It honestly makes perfect sense that Undead would put them to use and have access to lots of the things.

Ah, emphasizing the word carrion as you did seemed to suggest they'd get eaten, being dead and that, when they'd be the creatures with the least to fear from something that exclusively ate carrion.

Text not always the best conveyor of humor.

 Azreal13 wrote:
being dead and that, when they'd be the creatures with the least to fear from something that exclusively ate carrion.

Not to mention if you get some gunk on your skellie body during battle the crawler can clean you off leaving you feel like a new set bones.

We're enjoying it. On shelves at all three stores, but one prime FFG supporter is where we are playing it. Only 3 games under my belt, but about 7 starters sold.

 DrNo172000 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Yes why on earth would a skeleton ride a CARRION crawler?

I don't know. What does the Runewars fluff say about this? What's the justification? I can see how a giant maggot would be loosely correlated with the undead. Seems weird to have a combination of living creatures and dead creatures traveling together, though. All this powerful magic to raise an undead army and you have them riding big maggots.

My gaming buddies and I have gone in for six boxed sets (among five guys) and so far I've only painted... But two of 'em got to play last weekend and the report was good. They liked it.

Not much traction here in Minneapolis, so far. There are the FFG fanboys at the FFG event center which are seemingly all in, but half of those people are the same ones who gobbled up previous FFG war game entries such as Dust tactics, Warzone CMG, etc.

Most people I've talked to here had cursory interest, but are ambivalent. They want to see how it plays, yet have no interest in currently buying in. But then again, they are already heavily invested in other games.

It may be awhile before we know any definitive status on interest, as the current local sentiment in the air is "Wait and see".

Without tastemakers proclaiming it the next gaming revolution, I'm pretty skeptical of its longevity, considering precedence of how FFG handles a lot of games that aren't making money hand over fist immediately.

 Marmatag wrote:

 DrNo172000 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Yes why on earth would a skeleton ride a CARRION crawler?

I don't know. What does the Runewars fluff say about this? What's the justification? I can see how a giant maggot would be loosely correlated with the undead. Seems weird to have a combination of living creatures and dead creatures traveling together, though. All this powerful magic to raise an undead army and you have them riding big maggots.

Actually interesting enough Waiqar the Undying was never a wizard nor do I think he is now. Instead he was a great warrior and general and for all intents and purposes a good guy. He made some vow that turned him and his legion into undead. His forces do include necromancers now and according to the lore book they take the bones of fallen undead turn them into dust and use that to raise more. What corpses aren't reanimated are fed to carrion worms that live at the edges of thier camps. They do it to grow them fat and large so they can train them for riding. Their saliva is acid so I suppose that's why they are used.

It also does mention that some necromancers are powerful enough to raise dragons so I suppose that's coming eventually.

My FLGS sold a bunch of copies but I'm still busy painting my own and such. Got a few games in on release day and a few more at home, but no way to really gauge how it's doing. It's so new I'm not sure anyone could though.

I'll say that it's better than I thought it would be, especially the miniatures themselves. It plays really fast, and is more importantly simply fun.

Two things though that is going to make this an uphill struggle: had it released a year ago before AoS finally started picking up steam it would have had more immediate success, and with only the core set released there's not much here to really get into yet.

With Imperial Assault and X-Wing both on clearance racks at the two FGSs within an hour of me, I'd say it's got minimal chance. They're not even carrying the game at either store. Having Battlelore 2nd edition stuff untouched on their shelves probably isn't much inspiration to back another one of their games.

I don't think the FFG players in my store even know.

My buddy and I got the boxed sets at adepticon. We traded armies so I've got 2 core's of the human "Daqan" almost finished painting. Only played one game, but it was enough to make me decide to paint the army and then play some more games.

I don't spend much time at the FLGS, but I was at "Greenfire Games" with some friends the other day and the shop is pushing it. They live streamed the games from the introductory campaign which is basically a 3 scenario game tree that was given on the release day. The manager said they play Armada and/or Runewars on Wed and Thursday of each week. This is a store that plays alot of X-Wing and Armada.

The store is a bit far away from me, but I may head down there to get some games in. The biggest store in the area "Games Plus" has an "after hours" event scheduled for May.

I'm cataloging my Runewars Odyssey here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/722712.page

Quite well, really.

My FLGS ordered 18 copies, sold all 18 within the first three days.

We have 22 players, with about 10 active all week, filling out two organized game days.

This weekend marks our first narrative event, and on the 7th we have a tournament scheduled.

Pretty much everyone who gets their hands on it agrees that it's an incredibly fun game, and those of us who've been playing it thoroughly are astonished at how much depth the game has.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:

 DrNo172000 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Yes why on earth would a skeleton ride a CARRION crawler?

I don't know. What does the Runewars fluff say about this? What's the justification? I can see how a giant maggot would be loosely correlated with the undead. Seems weird to have a combination of living creatures and dead creatures traveling together, though. All this powerful magic to raise an undead army and you have them riding big maggots.

Waiqar's legions don't consist only of skeletons, or even just undead.

He has living necromancers who experiment with fleshcrafting.

The lore book talks about how their tendency to discard bits of failed experiments to the edges of an encampment results in carrion worms thriving around Waiqar camps, which are then tamed and used for their corrosive fluids that can eat away both metal and flesh.

What size are the bases? I only ask because I wonder if you could simply use your own miniatures (of your preferred aesthetic) in place of the somewhat...less than attractive models in the starter box?

Are the bases pretty standard sizes? It'd be easy enough to create rules for Warhammer armies, etc.

 Elbows wrote:
What size are the bases? I only ask because I wonder if you could simply use your own miniatures (of your preferred aesthetic) in place of the somewhat...less than attractive models in the starter box?

Are the bases pretty standard sizes? It'd be easy enough to create rules for Warhammer armies, etc.

Unfortunately the bases are a bit different than standard sizes. I measured them earlier and didn't record but I think it's 23mm for the rounds The trays are 2.5 inches (62mm) across not counting the puzzle pieces part sticking out.

The models are actually pretty good. Proxying would be expensive as the only way to get new dials and cards is to buy unit boxes. Unless of course you make your own, but that wouldn't be valid for event play.

 Marmatag wrote:
To me it just looks pretty bland.

Without Maelstrom or objective based missions I would have little to no interest in 40k.

To me there needs to be more depth and tactical decision making than running at your opponent, locking into melee, and resolving the game.

It could be that Rune Wars is far more tactical than what i've seen. I honestly don't know. But i'm not going out of my way to learn if it is or not, because my first impression was unfavorable.

Additionally, launching with 2 factions didn't seem wise. The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Finally, they don't offer any other gameplay modes besides 1v1. If they had a game mode that supported something NEW, like a true free-for-all style gameplay where you could have 1v1v1v1, or something, i'd be more inclined to look at it. Just seems like more of the same in a diminished capacity.

Call it what you will. This is how I reacted.

There are six different Objective based scenarios, and six different deployment types, all with their own handy reference card in the Core Set. More being released with the expansions.

You could easily play Runewars with more than two people. The initiative system lends itself well to it.


You're first impression is incredibly wrong and misguided. But you do you

WUWU wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
To me it just looks pretty bland.

Without Maelstrom or objective based missions I would have little to no interest in 40k.

To me there needs to be more depth and tactical decision making than running at your opponent, locking into melee, and resolving the game.

It could be that Rune Wars is far more tactical than what i've seen. I honestly don't know. But i'm not going out of my way to learn if it is or not, because my first impression was unfavorable.

Additionally, launching with 2 factions didn't seem wise. The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Finally, they don't offer any other gameplay modes besides 1v1. If they had a game mode that supported something NEW, like a true free-for-all style gameplay where you could have 1v1v1v1, or something, i'd be more inclined to look at it. Just seems like more of the same in a diminished capacity.

Call it what you will. This is how I reacted.

There are six different Objective based scenarios, and six different deployment types, all with their own handy reference card in the Core Set. More being released with the expansions.

You could easily play Runewars with more than two people. The initiative system lends itself well to it.


You're first impression is incredibly wrong and misguided. But you do you

I agree. The core box has 36 objective/deployment combinations. I've played numerous games at this point and none of them have involved running at each other to see who can kill the most. If you don't play to the mission, you'll likely lose. Also, the core rules come with rules for 3 and 4 player games. So... it's not just 1v1. Rules are included for 1v2 and 2v2. I do agree with the above comment that 1v1v1 could easily be supported. The game dictates who first player is. You'd just need to decide 2nd and 3rd players... I'd suggest going clockwise around the table.

Complaining about model aesthetics is one thing, but complaining that a magically animated skeleton is riding on the wrong sort of imaginary creature seems a little weird. I didn't realize that magic skellingtons had a preferred mount.

I think the mechanics of the game are solid and the game is a lot of fun. I don't necessarily dig how the terrain is dictated by the cards, but I'll build a bridge and get over it.

THe model aesthetics are less than GW but not ugly like mantic. The only complaint I had about the models are that whoever designed the skeleton archers needs slapped. Gluing their arms resulted in gluing my fingers together three times with super glue.

But I'm spoiled with plastic glue and prefer it.

 auticus wrote:
I think the mechanics of the game are solid and the game is a lot of fun. I don't necessarily dig how the terrain is dictated by the cards, but I'll build a bridge and get over it.

THe model aesthetics are less than GW but not ugly like mantic. The only complaint I had about the models are that whoever designed the skeleton archers needs slapped. Gluing their arms resulted in gluing my fingers together three times with super glue.

But I'm spoiled with plastic glue and prefer it.

I hear you on the terrain cards, but I actually like the randomized nature of the terrain. Randomly pick X (usually 3) pieces and then take turns placing them with whoever picked the deployment card taking first pick. Having said that, I don't think there's anything preventing you from making your own terrain and either agreeing on table layout or making your own cards for randomized placement. A guy on the official forum has already put together a template and made cards using his own terrain.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/247359-custom-terrain-cards/

I think you just need more practice with super glue.

zilch, nada, nothing

the fantasy in my area is KoW or AoS. Nobody has even gleaned the slightest interest in this game.

Saw a game played at my buddy's place using KOW models (their stuff is still in the box).

It was "okay". it may have helped if we drank a bit. Seems to be nicer than KOW 1.0 ruleset though

Had a look at the minis for the first time today in the flesh. Nice level of detail and the aesthetic across both factions holds together well, it was interesting that they look a lot less 'cartoony' in person and when not close up on a monitor.

Cost seems pretty reasonable for that number of mins, and the card components seemed of a good quality.

Subjectively I quite like the style of the minis (definitely have a look of World of Warcraft about them). I'm not going to invest in it yet as have too many other projects on the go (which may be where FFG run into difficulty, wargamers have limited time available for investment and there are just so many quality games around these days) but if they do a greenskin/orc or some other faction that appeals I might seriously consider it.

WUWU wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
To me it just looks pretty bland.

Without Maelstrom or objective based missions I would have little to no interest in 40k.

To me there needs to be more depth and tactical decision making than running at your opponent, locking into melee, and resolving the game.

It could be that Rune Wars is far more tactical than what i've seen. I honestly don't know. But i'm not going out of my way to learn if it is or not, because my first impression was unfavorable.

Additionally, launching with 2 factions didn't seem wise. The aesthetic of both armies didn't grab me, either. I do not like the look of the vomit slug, for instance, and that's one of the flagship units of the game. It doesn't make sense. Why would a skeleton ride a vomit slug? Put him on a dragon, come on!

Finally, they don't offer any other gameplay modes besides 1v1. If they had a game mode that supported something NEW, like a true free-for-all style gameplay where you could have 1v1v1v1, or something, i'd be more inclined to look at it. Just seems like more of the same in a diminished capacity.

Call it what you will. This is how I reacted.

There are six different Objective based scenarios, and six different deployment types, all with their own handy reference card in the Core Set. More being released with the expansions.

You could easily play Runewars with more than two people. The initiative system lends itself well to it.


You're first impression is incredibly wrong and misguided. But you do you

Well that's all fine and well. I am just sharing my reaction based on what I saw.

Some people are upset that I commented on the aesthetic, but I don't play warhammer with 3d printed poop emojis for a reason. Maybe if they release a faction that grabs me, i'll play it. But the collecting side of any game is important to me, too.

I'm in NC and so far not much excitement, except from me! I purchased 2 core sets and have them 75% assembled. I mostly play AOS and it won't replace that but I really like this game. I like that the miniature's are rather simple and I like the trays and if it tanks I can still use the figs for AOS or Dragon Rampant but I hope it's successful.

Two, possibly three boxes have been bought by our group. I'm still waiting to play a game at this point, and am in wait mode for the elf army.

The two who have played it so far have been really hyping it up, but they were also stoked to try WHFB & AoS, so i'm being very cautious about investing in the game.

Oddly enough, I just bought a Seraphon SC box tonight - with the intent to use it as replacement models for a human army. (I just loved the look of the models and couldn't resist the idea of having a bunch of lizardmen riding dinosaurs. Don't expect I'll ever actually use them AoS).

I have a friend who got the starter box- he has been super excited about the game for a while.

He told me that the game from the starter is really boring, but that's something that might be fixed as the game expands, so he'll wait and see.


Basically, he was a day one must buy it kind of a guy, and the starter box has turned him into a fence sitter.


By the way- Age of Sigmar hasn't gone super well locally (Warmachine, X-Wing, 40k, Malifaux and Infinity all remain strong).

We've had really high interest. I think the store has sold something like 20 core sets. I've played a half dozen full games at this point and they all felt very different. The variable deployment, terrain and mission cards really give a ton of variety to the game. In comparison, Age of Sigmar's Matched Play always felt like a game of 'run at each other and fight'. Runewars has a far more strategic feel where there isn't necessarily a correct choice and you really need to guess what your opponent is going to do.

No interest in my area that I know of. There is a copy of Star Wars Armada and X-wing and those haven't been touched either. I guess my FLGS is Magic and 40K/AoS only for now. I haven't seen nothing else played except that.

Local store did get them in, but does not seem to be a lot of interest as of yet. I looked the boxes over, and was not terribly impressed so far. Wait and see....the store used to be a heavy FFG stocker, but has cut back quite a bit since the ending of the licensing deal with GW.

Our local store did a mini-tournament it seems - there was at least three (rounds of?) games.

I just received a base copy of the game as a birthday present. I don't think anyone realizes yet that I'm going to replace my human models with sauruses though.

A local-ish shop was running demos at a wargames show the other weekend, and they looked to be pretty busy. How that translates to actual sales I've no idea. certainly there's been no interest at our club.

Rune-who?

Zero impact here.

What is Runewars? All crickets in my area, my flgs did not sell a single copy, last I saw they had it on clearance and it still did not move.

Completely sold out at my two closest FLGS. :/ had to order from minimarket and some were sold out there too. I guess the first real measure will come when the organized play comes around later this year.

I got my copy at adepticon. About 10 boxes sold here in Central california, but it has already slowed down visibly on the tables at local shops.

I must admit my painting time is going to the new 40K and my love of the models. I've decided to just spray my Rune Wars starter two separate colors -- bone and gold respectively.

I simply have too much on my painting table, as I also play Age of Sigmar (my #1 game) and a host of other systems like the emerging Konflikt '47.

We all agree, even if some locals don't paint their forces at all, we enjoy the game. it is a solid system but currently shadowed by the competition. I'm not sure I can keep up with it financially however. It will depend on the pace and interest of other players how much I invest.

 primalexile wrote:
What is Runewars? All crickets in my area, my flgs did not sell a single copy, last I saw they had it on clearance and it still did not move.

They put Runewars on clearance? The one that's been out less than a month and a half...?

Or are you thinking of the board game?

 pancakeonions wrote:

 primalexile wrote:
What is Runewars? All crickets in my area, my flgs did not sell a single copy, last I saw they had it on clearance and it still did not move.

They put Runewars on clearance? The one that's been out less than a month and a half...?

Or are you thinking of the board game?

Yeah, good question.

I wonder if his store does mail order

I have a feeling primalexile may have been looking at a box of Runebound - or more likely, Battlelore.

Oddly enough, this game has me curious to pull out the Battlelore game I bought a few years back and give it a go. I've had it for a while, but never pushed any of my group to try and play it.

I don't know about take-up, but I do know I can't wait to see what Angel Giraldez makes of the minis. From an 'unachievable ideal' perspective

Good Lord that's beautiful!

Finally got to an FLGS on the south side of Chicago "Greenfire Games" to play Runewars. I ended up playing one of the employees, but before I had left I had met two other runewars players. Seems like there's a small but interested group. Hopefully it'll grow. There's no official Runewars day, but the owners say some folks play it and Armada on Wed and Thursday

After painting the first two sets of Daqan I just picked up two more starter-box Daqan forces! Also bought the infantry upgrade set. I'm building a more than I need with an eye to using them in Kings of War.

 Eilif wrote:
Good Lord that's beautiful!

Finally got to an FLGS on the south side of Chicago "Greenfire Games" to play Runewars. I ended up playing one of the employees, but before I had left I had met two other runewars players. Seems like there's a small but interested group. Hopefully it'll grow. There's no official Runewars day, but the owners say some folks play it and Armada on Wed and Thursday

After painting the first two sets of Daqan I just picked up two more starter-box Daqan forces! Also bought the infantry upgrade set. I'm building a more than I need with an eye to using them in Kings of War.

I have the option of selling my undead or beefing up my humans with another half starter in trade. Do you feel the infantry command expansion alone gives you enough tactical versatility? It's a difficult choice -- I really want those other cards in the basic expansions.
Familiar story I know.

with everything in front of you, how do you feel about not having other expansions?

Now that is what Stormcast Eternals for Age of Sigmar should have been. Beautiful job in painting them.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Good Lord that's beautiful!

Finally got to an FLGS on the south side of Chicago "Greenfire Games" to play Runewars. I ended up playing one of the employees, but before I had left I had met two other runewars players. Seems like there's a small but interested group. Hopefully it'll grow. There's no official Runewars day, but the owners say some folks play it and Armada on Wed and Thursday

After painting the first two sets of Daqan I just picked up two more starter-box Daqan forces! Also bought the infantry upgrade set. I'm building a more than I need with an eye to using them in Kings of War.

I have the option of selling my undead or beefing up my humans with another half starter in trade. Do you feel the infantry command expansion alone gives you enough tactical versatility? It's a difficult choice -- I really want those other cards in the basic expansions.
Familiar story I know.

with everything in front of you, how do you feel about not having other expansions?

I've only played one game with the infantry expansion. I've not painted mine up but the shop owner broke one out for our game. However, as far as I can tell it adds a TON of versatility, though ONLY to infantry units. Each of the 4 charachters has essentially 3 entirely different ways in which he can be used and though not all modes are great, there's plenty of useable variety. Also, you can put more than one in a unit so it's a useful addition even when you only have a few units..

If you only have one starter of Daqan, I'd definitely trade the undead half starter for more Daqan. You will want more of these basic troops to make bigger units and you won't have a chance to get more-for-less again. That said, eventually you may want the cards. I hate that I'm saying this, but I'll probably eventually pick up the basic expansions for the cards, but I might end up selling off the figs. Do I really need more than 8 trays of Cav, 16 trays of infantry and 4 rune golems?...

Pretty much zero amongst my small gaming club, most likely a general lack of interest in the genre rather than the merits or otherwise for Rune Wars, the dials and upgrade cards were mentioned as a barrier to using existing mini's but its mostly the genre

No one has even heard of it as far as I can tell. No interest in rank and file here, it's 100% X-Wing and GW (AoS and 40k), with some people (me included) doing some alternative smaller games like Infinity or Dropfleet.

Yeah, I just can't get into it. The models don't really appeal to me for whatever reason, I guess. I've seen the starter box on sale here but I dunno if anyone bought it.

RuneWars on sale for $70 at CSI:
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/page/2663

Wait until it hits the FFG Christmas sales. It may take a year or two but they really slice the prices when they drop a game.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Wait until it hits the FFG Christmas sales. It may take a year or two but they really slice the prices when they drop a game.

Nah, I just think it needs a bit of time to take off, that's it. There's obviously people playing it in a decent volume. The thing is whether or not FFG maintain their compromise beyond the planned releases with those decent numbers. They've left for dead plenty games in the past (the fact that they did twice the with the games of the Runewars' is another thing too):

Lord Kragan wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Wait until it hits the FFG Christmas sales. It may take a year or two but they really slice the prices when they drop a game.

Nah, I just think it needs a bit of time to take off, that's it. There's obviously people playing it in a decent volume. The thing is whether or not FFG maintain their compromise beyond the planned releases with those decent numbers. They've left for dead plenty games in the past (the fact that they did twice the with the games of the Runewars' is another thing too):

They are sinking a lot of money into promoting this game, they gave away copies at Adepticon, they gave away copies to youtubers. I think they even set up some promotional deals with youtubers for sponsored content. Still waiting for Twitch painters to start shilling it.
I see them giving it till mid 2018 at the earliest if not 2019.

 Digclaw wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Wait until it hits the FFG Christmas sales. It may take a year or two but they really slice the prices when they drop a game.

Nah, I just think it needs a bit of time to take off, that's it. There's obviously people playing it in a decent volume. The thing is whether or not FFG maintain their compromise beyond the planned releases with those decent numbers. They've left for dead plenty games in the past (the fact that they did twice the with the games of the Runewars' is another thing too):

They are sinking a lot of money into promoting this game, they gave away copies at Adepticon, they gave away copies to youtubers. I think they even set up some promotional deals with youtubers for sponsored content. Still waiting for Twitch painters to start shilling it.
I see them giving it till mid 2018 at the earliest if not 2019.

I'm seeing march 2019. 2 years for the player base starting to set in. 5 to start a robust following. Which I think it CAN manage.

Except for the demo game from a friend - nothing in FLGSs

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Digclaw wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Wait until it hits the FFG Christmas sales. It may take a year or two but they really slice the prices when they drop a game.

Nah, I just think it needs a bit of time to take off, that's it. There's obviously people playing it in a decent volume. The thing is whether or not FFG maintain their compromise beyond the planned releases with those decent numbers. They've left for dead plenty games in the past (the fact that they did twice the with the games of the Runewars' is another thing too):

They are sinking a lot of money into promoting this game, they gave away copies at Adepticon, they gave away copies to youtubers. I think they even set up some promotional deals with youtubers for sponsored content. Still waiting for Twitch painters to start shilling it.
I see them giving it till mid 2018 at the earliest if not 2019.

I'm seeing march 2019. 2 years for the player base starting to set in. 5 to start a robust following. Which I think it CAN manage.

FFG won't give it 5 years. 2-2.5 then They cut their losses. It is still better than their 7-10 months they usually give things.

In my area, we have two gaming stores - the one that supports GW games, and the other one that practically kicked out GW games and players. I refer to them as the FLGS and the "other store".

At our FLGS, they got in a few starter sets and some other kits to expand armies, but I have no clue as to how they are selling or what. I don't make it out near as much as I used to, but I don't see it outselling anything anytime soon.

I don't frequent the other store anymore after being criticized for making a purchase from them by one of their employees as I was checking out. I have no clue how that store is doing at all anymore.

In our area, all of our Warhammer Fantasy players tried out Kings of War and 9th Age, and stayed with Fantasy. A bunch of them played Dark Age for a little bit, but all that did was encourage our FLGS to stock a bunch of Dark Age stuff that hasn't sold off yet. So aside from Dark Age (and some mentioning of Drop Zone/Drop Fleet), it is pretty much Fantasy, AoS, 40K, and Blood Bowl are the main wargames getting played in our FLGS. I don't know if Runewars will catch on at any point.

I got the starter set free in my Adepticon Swag Bag. Sold it on eBay a week later for $90.

I was happy with that.

I think FFG missed a trick here. I know that I would have been slightly interested if the minis were pre-painted. I have enough GW stuff to paint without adding a fantasy mass battle game on top.

I think that Runewars Miniatures going to be a big deal. I’ve played 4-5 games.

Pros-

It’s a quick game. A full tournament play is 200 points. A 200 point game between two plays is around 1.5 hours. After you learn how to get deployment and started down, it its about 1 hour to play. That is huge. There is a bigger group of people that are looking for a shorter game play. Newer players are looking for that quicker play experience. I’ll admit as an older gamer, it’s much easier to fit in that 1.5 hour game and not be still trying to get a die roll as they are turning out the lights to go home.

It’s engaging and difficult to master. Just the simple mechanic of the dial deciding Initiative order is a huge deal for the complexity. Add in that you then also have to factor in if your player 1, or player 2 in a turn adds to the games attractiveness.

The models aren’t top notch, but neither are 40K’s, but they are cheaper in the terms of cost. The new 40K box is $136 with the standard discount, and comes with all rules, and 54ish mini’s. The Runewars comes with 48 mini’s all the stuff needed to play, and cost $80. That $50+ is a big deal, but more than that, If you and a buddy purchase a Runewars box, and swap so each has the “other” side you each have around 180 points, for a 200 point game. You are 90% of the way to playing a tournament game. Dark Millennium leaves you maybe 50% of the way to a tourney force to play. Your outlay for playing it far higher.

Further expansions are also cheaper. The Lord Hawthorne expansion gives you a new terrain piece, new mission, new a Figure on horse, a figure on foot, and cost $20. A new Marine captain in 40K is $25 with the standard discount.

An established sane tournament system with a proven play tested results, and substantial rewards. If you win worlds in other games you get to help design a card that is going to affect all future game play. Store Championships move naturally to Regionals, that move to Nationals, that move to Worlds. It is world class.

Cons-
Cardboard Terrain. Why it does lower the cost, it also lowers the look. Nuff said.
FFG upgrade card issue. Right now if you want the Dawnblade your buying the Lord Hawthorne expansion. That hurts some people’s soul.

I absolutely understand that there are going to be the people that are clear that Xwing butt hurt them once so bad they can’t play FFG anymore, but that’s going to be a minority over time. Xwing is the most popular Mini game in the world. Add in Imperial Assault, Armada, Runewars Mini’s at the end of the year I’d expect there market percentage to just continue to grow.

My local FLGS is having trouble selling any of it. Even the people who love the game were telling me to wait and see how 8th Ed 40k drops before spending anything on Runewars.


Frankly, I can't see how a newcomer to a crowded field littered with the corpses of stronger rivals decides to lash themselves to $25 boxes containing two PVC heroes or 8 PVC mooks. Did Asmodee buy stock in Reaper Bones? Why are they trying so hard to sell me on the competition? I'm certainly not going to learn the rules before spending any money, and I refuse to spend premium money for barely par minis just because they come with highly-regarded rules.

Given FFG's abysmal history with miniatures games (X-Wing notwithstanding), and how many times I've been burnt when they drop product lines, I'm waiting a good long time to see if they're actually committed this time.

And I don't think I'm the only one.

I've been to FFG's Event Center many times in the past two months - playing AoS, ironically. I've seen RuneWars played exactly one time by two people, with unpainted models. This is not a meaningful sample size, at all, but this is in FFG's own store.

I don't know what this means, but as a customer I still wish they would have continued pushing out new factions for BattleLore and been happy with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My local FLGS is having trouble selling any of it. Even the people who love the game were telling me to wait and see how 8th Ed 40k drops before spending anything on Runewars.


Frankly, I can't see how a newcomer to a crowded field littered with the corpses of stronger rivals decides to lash themselves to $25 boxes containing two PVC heroes or 8 PVC mooks. Did Asmodee buy stock in Reaper Bones? Why are they trying so hard to sell me on the competition? I'm certainly not going to learn the rules before spending any money, and I refuse to spend premium money for barely par minis just because they come with highly-regarded rules.

It's the same material they've been using to make models for their board games for years. It's what they know.

Its 100% dead here. Which annoys me because I invested in it and now I have another dead game to sit on my shelf.

 auticus wrote:
Its 100% dead here. Which annoys me because I invested in it and now I have another dead game to sit on my shelf.

Didn't it rule back two months ago in your meta? Whow. Talk about people being fickle.

Reemule wrote:

The models aren’t top notch, but neither are 40K’s, but they are cheaper in the terms of cost. The new 40K box is $136 with the standard discount, and comes with all rules, and 54ish mini’s. The Runewars comes with 48 mini’s all the stuff needed to play, and cost $80. That $50+ is a big deal, but more than that, If you and a buddy purchase a Runewars box, and swap so each has the “other” side you each have around 180 points, for a 200 point game. You are 90% of the way to playing a tournament game. Dark Millennium leaves you maybe 50% of the way to a tourney force to play. Your outlay for playing it far higher.

Further expansions are also cheaper. The Lord Hawthorne expansion gives you a new terrain piece, new mission, new a Figure on horse, a figure on foot, and cost $20. A new Marine captain in 40K is $25 with the standard discount.

I'm not sure this is apples to oranges comparison though. The new 40K box comes with a 280 page hardback rule book, and the models are considerably better made. I have no problem with the material the RW models are made from, but I still had to do some assembly, which is the most irritating part of the process for me.

Which brings back the original point of discussion: who is the customer for this? If the customer is a miniatures enthusiast, the models are lacking due to the detail of the sculpts, the material used, and their modeling potential. If the customer is a board gamer, this is becoming too much work just to get the first game on the table.

The Rune Wars box is $99.95, not $80.

But the bigger question is - will you find opponents, and will the game still be here in five years? Miniatures games are investments that you expect to pay back over time, and GW has a much better track record in this respect than FFG has ever had. This makes me especially weary.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 auticus wrote:
Its 100% dead here. Which annoys me because I invested in it and now I have another dead game to sit on my shelf.

Didn't it rule back two months ago in your meta? Whow. Talk about people being fickle.

They rotate through games fast. It never ruled, but the tournament guys snatched it up. However with 40k being re-released, there is no interest in FFG right now.

The XWing guys don't play anything else but XWing. (they are the largest club in the city)

rmeister0 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My local FLGS is having trouble selling any of it. Even the people who love the game were telling me to wait and see how 8th Ed 40k drops before spending anything on Runewars.


Frankly, I can't see how a newcomer to a crowded field littered with the corpses of stronger rivals decides to lash themselves to $25 boxes containing two PVC heroes or 8 PVC mooks. Did Asmodee buy stock in Reaper Bones? Why are they trying so hard to sell me on the competition? I'm certainly not going to learn the rules before spending any money, and I refuse to spend premium money for barely par minis just because they come with highly-regarded rules.

It's the same material they've been using to make models for their board games for years. It's what they know.

Which would be fine if they were priced accordingly, like 20 for $25, or even 12 mooks for $25, and $25 should buy four heroes of great stature (two mounted). Board game plastic has flooded the market these last 5 years, giving us a staggering number of options at impulse-happy prices. And that's not mentioning how many of Runewars' dead competitors are now selling at blowout prices to serve as both a temptation and a warning.

I live in Minneapolis where FFG is headquartered and have their store. There isn't a peep in our local discussion groups and I've never seen it played. I did sell my box for $80 to a local so there is that

I was at Origins Game Fair this weekend, FFG was demoing it, but not selling it. And They were actually selling stuff this year, used to be the only con they sold stuff at was GenCon.

its still ruling the roost here. I had considered it just for the minis. I like the material and that they are pretty much assembled,. the one thing I really hate about gw and to a greater degree malifaux is all the tiny pieces or superfluous crap to glue together.

 thekingofkings wrote:
its still ruling the roost here. I had considered it just for the minis. I like the material and that they are pretty much assembled,. the one thing I really hate about gw and to a greater degree malifaux is all the tiny pieces or superfluous crap to glue together.

Have a look at The Other Side later this year from Wyrd. Same sort of material and fully built models.

At my FLGS (Concord CA) it's selling "steadily" and no one has stepped up to start a gaming group. I think it's hit the table a few times, but not regularly.

I think it's brilliant. I sure do hope it takes off.

Our FLGS is about to start an escalation-style league for Runewars. Been sort of waiting for the elves, but might jump into this since I have the base game.

I really think it's going to take another year or two before this game starts taking flight (if it can survive until then). There just isn't enough variety in the types of armies or units just yet.

I've been wanting to get into it but so far I just can't justify it since I'm not playing anything often enough and there's been so many other things coming out lately that have taken up all my gaming cash. Hoping to get back to playing a lot more regularly this summer and I'll see if I can get one of the fellas to split a starter with me. Most of my club is playing 9th age though, and we're all old and set in our ways, it's tough to get em to into something new.

I think what ever they release or announce for it at GenCon will be a big deciding factor for Rune Wars.

They have put a lot behind the game just from the number of free copies they gave out. So I expect them to at least try One more big push at GenCon going into next Year.

They won't wait and see since they are not that good at giving games time anyway, and also Song of Ice and Fire is coming.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I live in Minneapolis where FFG is headquartered and have their store. There isn't a peep in our local discussion groups and I've never seen it played. I did sell my box for $80 to a local so there is that

I saw it played all of once. I ended up selling my box too, as there was far more Age of Sigmar going on. Oh yeah and that new 40k thingie.

A couple of us are playing on a weekly basis in my group. Great Game, I hope it picks up when their are more factions.

I still like a lot of the game mechanics ideas and concepts. I mean I was considering buying it for just that alone.

But, I'm super tired of rigid fantasy movement and watching these blocks awkwardly move around. Yeah, moving blocks of men is difficult, but this isn't Rectangle Wars.

Whatever happens to the game, it's worth mining some concepts from it.

 Vertrucio wrote:
I still like a lot of the game mechanics ideas and concepts. I mean I was considering buying it for just that alone.

But, I'm super tired of rigid fantasy movement and watching these blocks awkwardly move around. Yeah, moving blocks of men is difficult, but this isn't Rectangle Wars.

Whatever happens to the game, it's worth mining some concepts from it.

Similarly awkward to moving individual batches of circles all 1" spaced. It isn't Circle Wars.

As for the game... I was tempted, but another massive set of cards put me off. I already have X-Wing and it feels more like MtG these days. Sorry FFG.

That statement only shows you can make absurd retorts without understanding the whole.

Instead, try using rigid X-Wing templates with 9th Age/WHFB 7th.

There's a difference, it may be of degrees, but it's there.

Saw two more players at my FLGS (proabbly up to around 6 regulars now) yesterday. They had big armies, but nothing painted.

still going strong here. but this is definately not GW turf.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

As for the game... I was tempted, but another massive set of cards put me off. I already have X-Wing and it feels more like MtG these days. Sorry FFG.

FFG has a serious problem with counters, markers, tokens, custom dice, cardboard range rulers, cards, other cards, more cards....

They seriously just can't let all the board game pieces thing go. It is just too firmly lodged into their design philosophy. But it's a lot of crap to keep track of, sort and store.

And keep up with as new expansions up the power level by adding new cards. Which, or course, is part of the business plan.

 Vertrucio wrote:
That statement only shows you can make absurd retorts without understanding the whole.

Instead, try using rigid X-Wing templates with 9th Age/WHFB 7th.

There's a difference, it may be of degrees, but it's there.

Sorry. I guess I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were having some kind of AoS fanboy attack against rectangular blocks.

After your clarification, I'm in agreement. I'm trying to picture playing KoW, limiting movement to my X-Wing templates and it makes me shudder.
Not sure if that's worse than turning them into a MtG combo fest - which seems to be the trend these days in games.

Since I live in the backwoods when it comes to wargaming, there hasn't been a peep about it at all.

rmeister0 wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

As for the game... I was tempted, but another massive set of cards put me off. I already have X-Wing and it feels more like MtG these days. Sorry FFG.

FFG has a serious problem with counters, markers, tokens, custom dice, cardboard range rulers, cards, other cards, more cards....

They seriously just can't let all the board game pieces thing go. It is just too firmly lodged into their design philosophy. But it's a lot of crap to keep track of, sort and store.

And keep up with as new expansions up the power level by adding new cards. Which, or course, is part of the business plan.

You mean supplying the components required for playing the game with the actual product you are buying? How dare they

It seems more and more companies have learned a few things from the board game industry, by supplying the tools necessary to get a game started right out of the box, and I'll welcome that with open arms.

I get that having to buy product for a specific card upgrade is a gakky business model, but it's not much different than buying another box of space marines for the extra power fist you need to meet the oppressive WYSIWYG mentality.

Redacted post.

Gimgamgoo wrote:
After your clarification, I'm in agreement. I'm trying to picture playing KoW, limiting movement to my X-Wing templates and it makes me shudder.

Shudder if you want, but have you played Runewars? It's a very different game than KoW (A game I love) but it works really well and deserves to be played on it's own merits. It may seem counter-intuitive, but having more limited options for movement actually makes it seem a bit more realistic and creates a very different -but no less effective- kind of strategy.

WUWU wrote:

You mean supplying the components required for playing the game with the actual product you are buying? How dare they

It seems more and more companies have learned a few things from the board game industry, by supplying the tools necessary to get a game started right out of the box, and I'll welcome that with open arms.

I get that having to buy product for a specific card upgrade is a gakky business model, but it's not much different than buying another box of space marines for the extra power fist you need to meet the oppressive WYSIWYG mentality.

FFG has promised to put all cards (except faction specific cards) into each factions units so you at least won't have the X-wing problem of buying units outside your faction in order to get the cards you want.

 Eilif wrote:
It's a very different game than KoW (A game I love) but it works really well and deserves to be played on it's own merits. It may seem counter-intuitive, but having more limited options for movement actually makes it seem a bit more realistic and creates a very different -but no less effective- kind of strategy.

It definitely would be more realistic. Troops had to drill even the most basic maneuvers for hours and days. To do anything complicated was often a nightmare for the officers in charge of a given unit. They developed all sorts of tricks and techniques to get formed soldiers to move how they want, but even with all of those, their options were limited. During many times in history all a poorly trained unit could do is advance and form up on the unit directly to their right or left and that's it. If they tried to pivot or reform in the face of the enemy, they'd be disorganized and easily broken.

There were many wars where the only thing the officers and leaders actually near the units ever did was redress the lines and never got to ever make any decisions other than to advance or halt. And often even that decision wasn't available to them as they had to keep the right of their formation attached to the left of the next unit (or vise versa) and when that unit moved they just had to yell advance and when it stopped they had to yell to have everyone stop. Or sometimes not even that as the guys on the right would see the unit next to them stopped and would just stop when they matched up with them and the unit would sort of ripple out. In that case, one of the officers better get to the far corner to make sure by the time everyone halted it wasn't slowly curving forward (which would then throw the next unit attached to them out of whack).

In most rank and flank games the player is free to place their units exactly how they want and pivot them to stick their corners just so to apply their zone of control and limit enemy movement in ways that would never, ever be available to actual officers. Sometime tells me with the templates and overlapping and all that, that's probably an issue here as well. But at least you'll be limited to certain templates so the level of control won't be as fine.

And just now, FFG has announced the new demon, Uthuk Y'llan, faction.

So humans, undead, elves and demon barbarians. I may skip the elves, but the barbarian dudes look very cool!

I'm a dwarves kind of guy, myself. But at least this quick turnaround on faction releases means Runewars has hit the 4-faction minimum most games need to survive.

I really like the dogs. They'll be beautifull Flesh Hounds for my bloodbound!

Hey look its Skorne!!!!!

They must have started production on these before PP posted the fix for Skorne.

Is FFG just making this to catch disgruntled players from other games instead of making it its own game?

 infinite_array wrote:

Now these, I like.
Hopefully they won't cost too much with all the cards, tokens, etc they'll come with.

Tyranid dogs.

Besides the hounds, and possibly the Skornepion, those demons are superbly bland. Someone would have had to take classes, apprentice, and then defend a dissertation in Boring Studies to crelate that range. I applaud their work ethic.

Never been a fan of demon factions, that'll be a pass for me (though the fleshhounds remind me of alien's xenomorphs ).

Our escalation group got together this last Saturday and I watched a game being played (left my stupid cards at home...). The one thing that worried me is that this game is going to become Herohammer, and be all about the Hero units. That is, unfortunately, drove me away from WHFB and why I won't play with characters in 40K. If Runewars becomes get a powerful character or GTFO, I'll be shortly dropping the game.

Herohammer is pretty much what the culture loves.

 auticus wrote:
Herohammer is pretty much what the culture loves.

Maybe that's just an aspect of rank-and-file fantasy games in 28mm?

Maybe. that could be. I've never seen a wargame since the mid 90s where the players didn't enjoy hero hammer though and any non-28mm games simply aren't played here and haven't been seen since Bill Clinton was in office.

Maybe that's why?

 auticus wrote:
Maybe. that could be. I've never seen a wargame since the mid 90s where the players didn't enjoy hero hammer though and any non-28mm games simply aren't played here and haven't been seen since Bill Clinton was in office.

Maybe that's why?

the bigger the scale gets, the more Hero centric they get. Look at the few 54mm or 75mm that exist, they are all pure hero games.

 Digclaw wrote:
Hey look its Skorne!!!!!

They must have started production on these before PP posted the fix for Skorne.

Is FFG just making this to catch disgruntled players from other games instead of making it its own game?

Are you under the impression that the Uthuk Y'llan are *new*?

They've been a faction in every single Runebound universe game for several years.

 Stormonu wrote:
Never been a fan of demon factions, that'll be a pass for me (though the fleshhounds remind me of alien's xenomorphs ).

Our escalation group got together this last Saturday and I watched a game being played (left my stupid cards at home...). The one thing that worried me is that this game is going to become Herohammer, and be all about the Hero units. That is, unfortunately, drove me away from WHFB and why I won't play with characters in 40K. If Runewars becomes get a powerful character or GTFO, I'll be shortly dropping the game.

I wouldn't worry.

Play the game more. Heroes drop like flies if they try to go toe-to-toe with infantry formations. They're mostly support/specialist units.

Tvayumat wrote:

 Digclaw wrote:
Hey look its Skorne!!!!!

They must have started production on these before PP posted the fix for Skorne.

Is FFG just making this to catch disgruntled players from other games instead of making it its own game?

Are you under the impression that the Uthuk Y'llan are *new*?

They've been a faction in every single Runebound universe game for several years.

 Stormonu wrote:
Never been a fan of demon factions, that'll be a pass for me (though the fleshhounds remind me of alien's xenomorphs ).

Our escalation group got together this last Saturday and I watched a game being played (left my stupid cards at home...). The one thing that worried me is that this game is going to become Herohammer, and be all about the Hero units. That is, unfortunately, drove me away from WHFB and why I won't play with characters in 40K. If Runewars becomes get a powerful character or GTFO, I'll be shortly dropping the game.

I wouldn't worry.

Play the game more. Heroes drop like flies if they try to go toe-to-toe with infantry formations. They're mostly support/specialist units.

Honestly, I don't really see the skorne comparison either. If anything, they remind me of the Inferno faction from Heroes of Might & Magic 6... or should it be the Inferno that reminds me of the Uthuk?

Tvayumat wrote:

 Digclaw wrote:
Hey look its Skorne!!!!!

They must have started production on these before PP posted the fix for Skorne.

Is FFG just making this to catch disgruntled players from other games instead of making it its own game?

Are you under the impression that the Uthuk Y'llan are *new*?

They've been a faction in every single Runebound universe game for several years.

 Stormonu wrote:
Never been a fan of demon factions, that'll be a pass for me (though the fleshhounds remind me of alien's xenomorphs ).

Our escalation group got together this last Saturday and I watched a game being played (left my stupid cards at home...). The one thing that worried me is that this game is going to become Herohammer, and be all about the Hero units. That is, unfortunately, drove me away from WHFB and why I won't play with characters in 40K. If Runewars becomes get a powerful character or GTFO, I'll be shortly dropping the game.

I wouldn't worry.

Play the game more. Heroes drop like flies if they try to go toe-to-toe with infantry formations. They're mostly support/specialist units.

Their release schedule does come off opportunistic. First a rank and flank game using X-Wing Mechanics hoping to take advantage of the hole created by the end of WHFB (I still think they are too late to the party to do that). Then the First expansion race is Elves (which many in the AOS community are demanding get revamped and released since they are being ignored). Then they release a very Skorne like faction in the wake of Mrk III hordes complete nerfing of the faction (And it doesn't matter how old the fation is, they are still desert demons just like skorne).

Also, Skorne first appeared in 2001 as part of the Witchfire trilogy, predating Runebound by 4 years. And finally nobody cares about the universe, they only care about specific games set in that universe. I still think FFG are trying to snipe disgruntled players of other systems rather than making it its own thing.

 Digclaw wrote:

Tvayumat wrote:

 Digclaw wrote:
Hey look its Skorne!!!!!

They must have started production on these before PP posted the fix for Skorne.

Is FFG just making this to catch disgruntled players from other games instead of making it its own game?

Are you under the impression that the Uthuk Y'llan are *new*?

They've been a faction in every single Runebound universe game for several years.

 Stormonu wrote:
Never been a fan of demon factions, that'll be a pass for me (though the fleshhounds remind me of alien's xenomorphs ).

Our escalation group got together this last Saturday and I watched a game being played (left my stupid cards at home...). The one thing that worried me is that this game is going to become Herohammer, and be all about the Hero units. That is, unfortunately, drove me away from WHFB and why I won't play with characters in 40K. If Runewars becomes get a powerful character or GTFO, I'll be shortly dropping the game.

I wouldn't worry.

Play the game more. Heroes drop like flies if they try to go toe-to-toe with infantry formations. They're mostly support/specialist units.

Their release schedule does come off opportunistic. First a rank and flank game using X-Wing Mechanics hoping to take advantage of the hole created by the end of WHFB (I still think they are too late to the party to do that). Then the First expansion race is Elves (which many in the AOS community are demanding get revamped and released since they are being ignored). Then they release a very Skorne like faction in the wake of Mrk III hordes complete nerfing of the faction (And it doesn't matter how old the fation is, they are still desert demons just like skorne).

Also, Skorne first appeared in 2001 as part of the Witchfire trilogy, predating Runebound by 4 years. And finally nobody cares about the universe, they only care about specific games set in that universe. I still think FFG are trying to snipe disgruntled players of other systems rather than making it its own thing.

Well, since we are establishing a timeline, the Uthuk Y'llan originate in Disk Wars, released in 1999. (Runebound UNIVERSE, not Runebound: The board game)

I guess it's a good thing FFG isn't too worried about PP copying them two years later, since they are apparently so similar.

I'm not even sure what the complaint is about the timing. They made a game, they released it, they want it to sell. Why would they NOT try and time that to pick up fall-offs from similarly themed games? How is that a bad thing?

 Mangod wrote:

Honestly, I don't really see the skorne comparison either. If anything, they remind me of the Inferno faction from Heroes of Might & Magic 6... or should it be the Inferno that reminds me of the Uthuk?

This, more than anything. Also... Inferno was awesome. Where are my Gogs?

Every time I see the "X faction from Y game is copying Z faction from XY game" all I really hear is "I haven't really delved into enough fantasy to know how basically everything is a slight modification of everything else"

There's nothing new under the sun, and the most popular game company out there (GW) is basically one big monetized ripoff machine.

This isn't a *bad* thing. It's the reality of the genre.

Tvayumat wrote:

Well, since we are establishing a timeline, the Uthuk Y'llan originate in Disk Wars, released in 1999. (Runebound UNIVERSE, not Runebound: The board game)

I guess it's a good thing FFG isn't too worried about PP copying them two years later, since they are apparently so similar.

I'm not even sure what the complaint is about the timing. They made a game, they released it, they want it to sell. Why would they NOT try and time that to pick up fall-offs from similarly themed games? How is that a bad thing?

Timing is an important factor, because they announced it after the Rank and Flank hole had already started to seal itself, like they took too long developing Rune Wars.

Honestly in the long run, I have no idea how well this game will do.
FFG's history with miniatures games is bad.
FFG's history of supporting games is bad.
The choice of setting is odd because most of their miniatures successes have been Star Wars.
FFG does have a loyal fan base that will buy up almost anything new they release.
FFG gave out many of copies of the core set to Youtubers and at Adepticon. (And I don't just mean Dice Tower, they gave copies to Miniature Channels as well)
They have done a lot to support and promote this game.
Other than Adepticon and the initial release right after, I really haven't seen much buzz for this game.

GenCon will probably bring the next big announcement for it. We'll see how things go

Wait - Disk Wars was set in the Runebound universe?

I have some of those boxed sets, I need to go back and look at them...

I saw the new faction announced and my first thought was "that's...brave".

Is there any public info on whether or not this game is a complete flop or not?

It's been out for two months. Hard to flop in such a short amount of time

I'm sure FFG already has content in the pipeline for the next year or so.

This whole talk of FFG dropping support for products by Digclaw is really blown out of proportion. I think he just hates the company for some reason.

FFG does tend to drop things suddenly and without warning before they are completed when they aren't getting their money back. Which leads to people hesitating to see if things go off before purchasing leading to stuff being pulled prior to generating steam. It has happened quite a bit. That said this is probably going to be supported for at least a year before they review if they are keeping it.

Remains D.O.A. round my neck of the woods.

Our community may not be exactly massive (smol town), but it's not GW dominated either (Infinity is popular, as is X-Wing to a lesser degree).

Not sure what, if anything that says about the game's overall health. Probably nowt!

All we have are anecdotes but... here in San Antonio, we have a pretty lively scene with a good number of players excited about new releases.

It's a great game. Fun, well balanced, competitive, thematic, and easy to get into painting with.

 Stormonu wrote:
Wait - Disk Wars was set in the Runebound universe?

I have some of those boxed sets, I need to go back and look at them...

As I recall, it's sort of the "way back when" for the current Runewars storyline. Waiqar is a hero character in Disk Wars, these days he is Waiqar the Undying.

Those demon things look cool, but I've seen like zero interest in the game here. The figures look neat, but I'm not spending money on it since I haven't seen anyone play, I think once I saw someone say they bought it, and had the box, but that was it. I have not seen a game of it played, it has no night (maybe board game night? I'm not sure), and there is no Runewars community.

 Hulksmash wrote:
FFG does tend to drop things suddenly and without warning before they are completed when they aren't getting their money back. Which leads to people hesitating to see if things go off before purchasing leading to stuff being pulled prior to generating steam. It has happened quite a bit. That said this is probably going to be supported for at least a year before they review if they are keeping it.

What games are you specifically referring to? Dust? Wasn't that a very long time ago, and FFG taking on another company's IP? The GW stuff? Well that's the big workshop pulling their IP from FFG.

I've heard this same criticism a lot in this thread and it's never really been substantiated.

BL2 might be a possible consideration/example?
Came out in 2013 and was on clearance by 2016.
FFG refused to do any organized play in order to focus on Star Wars stuff.

They apparently also think it's the dials, templates and cards that made X-Wing such a hit instead of it having Star Wars on the box cover (yes, the game is good but doesn't mean it adapts to every setting).

The same one copy of Runewars is sitting on the shelf at one FGS. X-Wing has been clearanced as has Imperial Assault and the capital ship game from SW, can't remember the name.The 40k release has gotten everyone's attention locally.

To be fair, the same basic system has worked for space fighters, big starships, biplanes, Spitfires and Messerschmits, 18th-century warships and sparrows; as a planning and order mechanism for moving blocks of troops around, it seems to work fine. Visually, though, the game doesn't appeal to me - there's not enough models in the units for my taste (a dozen guys - not even taking a flag for a walk! - shouldn't have that much trouble moving around, and the thick sabot bases and all the dials and counters are too obtrusive on the tabletop for me.

Maybe in the future something will come along that changes my mind, but at the moment, no thanks. I won't even be picking up a hero here and there to use in Frostgrave, because all the extra material in the package pushes the price up too high to be worth paying for just the miniature.

WUWU wrote:
I've heard this same criticism a lot in this thread and it's never really been substantiated.

FFG didn't release the last three monsters of their Arkham Horror miniatures line.

The 54mm Mutant Chronicles didn't get past the first set.

FFG also regularly replaces their boardgames (Runebound, Descent, Mansions of Madness, Arkham Horror Drakon) with later revisions being incompatible with earlier ones.

AFAIK, FFG was the US distributor for Dust, Confrontation, and AF-43 (?), and stopped distributing these line, sending product to their holiday clearance sales.

FFG has also stopped putting out games under its Silver Line titles and ended its Call of Cthulhu LCG (which had quite a few releases).

It doesn't make any difference to me if you or anyone else does or does not pick up the RuneWars Miniatures game. But I think it's reasonable to expect that, if a game line doesn't sell as well as other game lines a company has, it will no longer be supported by the company.

ced1106 wrote:

WUWU wrote:
I've heard this same criticism a lot in this thread and it's never really been substantiated.

FFG didn't release the last three monsters of their Arkham Horror miniatures line.

The 54mm Mutant Chronicles didn't get past the first set.

FFG also regularly replaces their boardgames (Runebound, Descent, Mansions of Madness, Arkham Horror Drakon) with later revisions being incompatible with earlier ones.

AFAIK, FFG was the US distributor for Dust, Confrontation, and AF-43 (?), and stopped distributing these line, sending product to their holiday clearance sales.

FFG has also stopped putting out games under its Silver Line titles and ended its Call of Cthulhu LCG (which had quite a few releases).

It doesn't make any difference to me if you or anyone else does or does not pick up the RuneWars Miniatures game. But I think it's reasonable to expect that, if a game line doesn't sell as well as other game lines a company has, it will no longer be supported by the company.

48 Investigators and four waves of monsters for the Arkham Horror miniature line. So over 120 different miniatures is pulling the plug too soon?

I know for a fact that Mansions of Madness and Descent 2nd edition both have conversion kits for 1st edition product, so you point is not accurate. They also just announced a new Runebound expansion a few days ago. Descent has a million expansions, so again, I'm not really seeing how this proves your point.

FFG did end Call of Cthulhu LCG. After 8 years and a crap ton of expansions.

The Silver Line titles are almost entirely light weight board games so what would you expect them to do?

Basically, if FFG was strictly the distributor of game, and had nothing to do with development of the product then yes, maybe you should be worried about it's shelf life ending too soon. But that's not the case with Runewars TMG. I'd bet they easily have a years worth of expansions in the pipe already, if not two years worth.

A few things.

1- As for FFG discontinuing things. Yes, it happens. It's a business. If it doesn't sell, it gets dropped. Interestingly BL2 hasn't been announced as discontinued. It just hasn't seen a release in a good while.

2-As for FFG not doing their own thing with Runewars, that's hogwash. They didn't invent the hidden dials system, but at this point it's pretty much one of their flagship mechanics. Not only that, but they doubled down on the system and the result is a fantasy game completely unlike anything else out there. Further, they're locating the game in their own created universe. Pretty much sounds like the definition of doing one's own thing.

3-Regarding Terrinoth. Yep, it's got some derrivative elements and isn't very deeply developed. Still, it's pretty clear that it's not a copy of any (the Skorne argument doesn't stand up to a timeline) particular gaming universe.

4-Concerning "Opportunistic release schedule". I don't buy it, but even if it were true, how is that even a problem? If a game is to succeed (which I assume is the hope) shouldn't it be released at a time that takes advantage of a company's strengths and competitor's weakness?

Really though, I just come back to the game. Yes, it's entirely valid to look at FFG's history with games, but they at least last longer and are usually better designed and playtested than the dozens of 1-and-done miniature games that come out each year and for the time that they do last, it's usually possible to find a group of gamers who play them.

My encouragement is to at least try the game out if it seems to be gaining any traction in your area. Some will disagree, but it really is an innovative game that plays like no other fantasy wargame.

I think it missed it's window.

Had it been waiting in the wings when AOS first launched to such negative response, I think it would have been a contender, but with the General's Handbook and now with 40k 8th getting a very positive release, I don't see this game lasting.

It's background and minis are really bland/generic and the game becomes so ugly so quickly, with the table festooned with cards and counters and dials and tokens everywhere, combined with the really ugly locking bases.

Swing and a miss for me. Which is a shame, because I have a lot of time for FFG as a company.

WUWU wrote:
48 Investigators and four waves of monsters for the Arkham Horror miniature line. So over 120 different miniatures is pulling the plug too soon?

YES. It's still incomplete. Go ahead and ask this question to BGG'ers for Arkham Horror. Might as well ask if BL customers think the game line is, in their opinion, incomplete.

Look. I don't care about arguing about this. That this argument even exists for FFG and not other companies shows FFG has to prove they won't drop the game line in a few years.

You can type all you want, but you're going to have to convince posters not only here but also on the BGG forums and other customers for FFG's discontinued lines.

I'm not going to stop you or anyone from buying RW. If you and anyone who believes the game will be around in a few years continue to support this game, FFG will continue to put out product, and give others the confidence they need before committing money to the game.

EDIT: And for all you Descent players, there's *this* news. : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1805223/fate-descent-2nd-edition

Was at the flgs today and they are promoting the heck out of it.saw 5 folks play demos and a few of them were talking about buying the game.

ced1106 wrote:

WUWU wrote:
48 Investigators and four waves of monsters for the Arkham Horror miniature line. So over 120 different miniatures is pulling the plug too soon?

YES. It's still incomplete. Go ahead and ask this question to BGG'ers for Arkham Horror. Might as well ask if BL customers think the game line is, in their opinion, incomplete.

Look. I don't care about arguing about this. That this argument even exists for FFG and not other companies shows FFG has to prove they won't drop the game line in a few years.

You can type all you want, but you're going to have to convince posters not only here but also on the BGG forums and other customers for FFG's discontinued lines.

I'm not going to stop you or anyone from buying RW. If you and anyone who believes the game will be around in a few years continue to support this game, FFG will continue to put out product, and give others the confidence they need before committing money to the game.

EDIT: And for all you Descent players, there's *this* news. : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1805223/fate-descent-2nd-edition

You obviously care because you are making up an argument where it doesn't exist. What you said above was not accurate.

Other companies don't do what you accuse FFG of, really? GW? Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorkamorka, Hero Quest, Epic, Space Hulk, WHFB, and on and on

Go ahead and support RuneWars Miniatures, then.

We've come to separate conclusions based on FFG's history with its products. If you want to buy RuneWars Miniatures and find out they drop the game line before it's "complete", it won't matter to me. If I wait until RuneWars is "complete" and has local community support, I can always pick it up later.

My own miniatures skirmish wargame of choice is Song of Blades and Heroes, in part because they have a dungeon variant, but also because the game company is dedicated to supporting the product, and they do not require proprietary miniatures.

So, after a couple of months now, there is a dedicated but small group that plays at the club. I've only played there once since release, as I usually just play at home. I still think this game will take a while before gaining real momentum, if it does. The Organized Play that FFG supports for their games is legit, and the first two seasons will really show If this game is a thing.

It's probably never going to get huge, but as long as FFG supports it I'm down. It's very fun to play, and a welcome break from the more traditional ones like GW, KoW, etc...

Just managed to finally get in my first two games.

As I had feared, individual characters are far too powerful for my taste - and people reach for them as fast and as hard as they can. They can be killed, but fully equipped they hit like a ton of bricks, and thresh through the basic units a little too well. Personally, I'd like to see that you get 1/2 their points once you drop them to half wounds or so.

Beyond that, the game is rather quick and enjoyable. Maneuvering is huge, and if you can properly guess the rock-paper-scissors of the command dials, you can really turn the tide of battle. (I managed to maneuver in such a way that in both games, my opponent didn't get his hero character into the fight until about the 6th or 7th turn - out of 8).

I think in about a year or two years time, this game will be mature enough it will really start to draw in more attention. The current release has a good variety of options even at this moment, but it's still Humans vs. Undead. When there's more armies, and more unit types available, then the game should drawing more folks in.

 Stormonu wrote:
Just managed to finally get in my first two games.

As I had feared, individual characters are far too powerful for my taste - and people reach for them as fast and as hard as they can. They can be killed, but fully equipped they hit like a ton of bricks, and thresh through the basic units a little too well. Personally, I'd like to see that you get 1/2 their points once you drop them to half wounds or so.

Beyond that, the game is rather quick and enjoyable. Maneuvering is huge, and if you can properly guess the rock-paper-scissors of the command dials, you can really turn the tide of battle. (I managed to maneuver in such a way that in both games, my opponent didn't get his hero character into the fight until about the 6th or 7th turn - out of 8).

I think in about a year or two years time, this game will be mature enough it will really start to draw in more attention. The current release has a good variety of options even at this moment, but it's still Humans vs. Undead. When there's more armies, and more unit types available, then the game should drawing more folks in.

Individual characters are powerful, but they also cost as much as a whole unit, and even the most heavily armored ones die in 1-2 rounds of combat if caught in a less-than-ideal engagement. Particularly if you're playing against Waiqar. Their Executioner figure upgrade can literally remove a hero from the game if it has even a single wound on it. I did this just the other day, my opponent's Lord Hawthorne vanishing from the table in the first round of engagement.

Locally we have had multiple 200 pt tournaments, and I've played upwards of 20 games, and we are finding that lists without heroes in them at all are just as viable as hero lists, or even lists with two heroes. Heroes as attachments, too.

Heroes are obvious. Try some less obvious configurations. The game might surprise you.

WUWU wrote:

rmeister0 wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

As for the game... I was tempted, but another massive set of cards put me off. I already have X-Wing and it feels more like MtG these days. Sorry FFG.

FFG has a serious problem with counters, markers, tokens, custom dice, cardboard range rulers, cards, other cards, more cards....

They seriously just can't let all the board game pieces thing go. It is just too firmly lodged into their design philosophy. But it's a lot of crap to keep track of, sort and store.

And keep up with as new expansions up the power level by adding new cards. Which, or course, is part of the business plan.

You mean supplying the components required for playing the game with the actual product you are buying? How dare they

It seems more and more companies have learned a few things from the board game industry, by supplying the tools necessary to get a game started right out of the box, and I'll welcome that with open arms.

I get that having to buy product for a specific card upgrade is a gakky business model, but it's not much different than buying another box of space marines for the extra power fist you need to meet the oppressive WYSIWYG mentality.

Thanks for the snark that completely misses my point.

The only reason those components are required is because FFG designs the games that way. They are genetically incapable of creating a game without a ridiculous amount of book keeping involved. Their designers have a single hammer - the board game - and are using it on miniatures games, role playing games, and anything else they can squish flat with it.

It has nothing to do with expansions or buying a big box of stuff to get one thing - I am not even talking about that.

I've played many, many miniatures games where the only things I needed were a sheet of paper with my selected forces, the tape measure, and the dice. Not counters, tokens, markers, command wheels, order dice, or any other components.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WUWU wrote:
It's been out for two months. Hard to flop in such a short amount of time

I'm sure FFG already has content in the pipeline for the next year or so.

This whole talk of FFG dropping support for products by Digclaw is really blown out of proportion. I think he just hates the company for some reason.

Blown out of proportion? Depends on your point of view, and which games you bought. Let's just say there are quite a few BattleLore 2nd ed and BattleLore Westeros players who are not happy with FFG.

Arguably, their hammer doesn't even work on board games. I can recall at least two Christmasses where FFG's over complex rules and book keeping turned elation into frustration. (Arkham Horror, which my wife was excited to play until we attempted to set it up, and Starcraft, which didn't make it past the rule book reading stage and the "what are all these chits for?" conundrum.). I have literally wasted an entire boardgame night just setting up a FFG game and explaining the rules. With so many games on the market that focus on quick set up and play, there's no reason to invest in another FFG blizzard o' board ballast.


True fact: Ancient Hebrew had two verb tenses, one to describe a completed action and one to describe an action in the process of completion. A quorum of scholars had to devise a third verb tense, an action initiated that can never be completed, to describe FFG board games.

Tvayumat wrote:

...

Every time I see the "X faction from Y game is copying Z faction from XY game" all I really hear is "I haven't really delved into enough fantasy to know how basically everything is a slight modification of everything else"

There's nothing new under the sun, and the most popular game company out there (GW) is basically one big monetized ripoff machine.

This isn't a *bad* thing. It's the reality of the genre.

LOL. So true! Now ancient Hebrew scholars need to invent a verb tense to describe when in the past do variant fantasy tropes modify and/or mutate to become other fantasy tropes, with a subtle declension to indicate which source of the fantasy trope came FIRST!

rmeister0 wrote:

The only reason those components are required is because FFG designs the games that way. They are genetically incapable of creating a game without a ridiculous amount of book keeping involved. Their designers have a single hammer - the board game - and are using it on miniatures games, role playing games, and anything else they can squish flat with it.

It has nothing to do with expansions or buying a big box of stuff to get one thing - I am not even talking about that.

I've played many, many miniatures games where the only things I needed were a sheet of paper with my selected forces, the tape measure, and the dice. Not counters, tokens, markers, command wheels, order dice, or any other components.

Have you played Runewars? I've played games that have alot of book keeping and Runewars is simply not a game like that.

The counters are a bit more than I'm used to (I'm a fan of SoBH and KoW), but 5 kinds of counters (of which you usually only use 3 or so) is not at all unusual in wargaming today. As for the dial, it's just a clever and streamlined version of the old method of writing down your orders. No doubt there is a fair amount of parapanalia involved, but I'd advise folks to keep an open mind. The surprising result is a very smooth playing game. It's just as easy and fast to play as Kings of War and almost as easy as games like Song of Blades and Dragon Rampant.

FFG's "upcoming" page just listed RWM as awaiting reprint. So from April 13 to July 3 (the date this was posted), they've sold through their initial print run. Less than three months.

Is that fast? Was their initial print run small? Maybe it's just a publicity stunt to get nerds like us buzzing about it?

But it seems pretty cool that in about 80 days they sold through the first printing.

Tvayumat wrote:


Heroes are obvious. Try some less obvious configurations. The game might surprise you.

Actually, I played my two starting games (100 pts. And 150), without a character in the army. Managed to win both times, but still don't much like unattached characters. Heroes can be hurt, no doubt, but as my brother puts it, it's like putting a 3X3 unit on the board crammed into a 1x1 square. My dislike stems from being on the recieving end in WHFB herohammer days, I guess, so apply saly as necessary.

And what is this Executioner upgrade? Sounds like really bad juju...

 Eilif wrote:


Have you played Runewars? I've played games that have alot of book keeping and Runewars is simply not a game like that.

The counters are a bit more than I'm used to (I'm a fan of SoBH and KoW), but 5 kinds of counters (of which you usually only use 3 or so) is not at all unusual in wargaming today. As for the dial, it's just a clever and streamlined version of the old method of writing down your orders. No doubt there is a fair amount of parapanalia involved, but I'd advise folks to keep an open mind. The surprising result is a very smooth playing game. It's just as easy and fast to play as Kings of War and almost as easy as games like Song of Blades and Dragon Rampant.

Owned it, nobody cared to play it.

Song of Blades and Heroes plays with practically no book keeping at all.

It may play smooth, but I just don't want extraneous crap to keep track of. Its just more stuff to lose.

 pancakeonions wrote:
FFG's "upcoming" page just listed RWM as awaiting reprint. So from April 13 to July 3 (the date this was posted), they've sold through their initial print run. Less than three months.

Is that fast? Was their initial print run small? Maybe it's just a publicity stunt to get nerds like us buzzing about it?

But it seems pretty cool that in about 80 days they sold through the first printing.

Didn't they also give away free copies to quite a lot of people at adepticon?

Methinks the lady doth try too hard to justify her hatred.

It's highly likely they sold/shipped through their initial batch to stores and other distributors. This is not uncommon for big games with a lot of production behind it.

At this point, it doesn't mean much either way.

Despite the Asmodee pricing policy, various OLGS's have had the core game on sale for as much as 30% to 40% off (FunAgain's current summer sale). So FFG's strategy may be to get the core game into the market ASAP, and make up sales with the expansion sets. Seems like a reasonable move to the "wait until there's enough support" response I've seen here and BGG. (On the FFG forum, there's a thread about how expensive the game is.)

Local store Greenfire Games took one more giant step towards support of the game. They're offering to paint the boxed set for the cost of the boxed set for those who buy the game from them. Just 3-4 colors and a dip, but it's a pretty good deal. They just jumped into miniature gaming with Runewars and 8th edition and there seems to be a full court press to both get folks playing and make painted figs the norm.

Pretty cool.

 Eilif wrote:
Local store Greenfire Games took one more giant step towards support of the game. They're offering to paint the boxed set for the cost of the boxed set for those who buy the game from them. Just 3-4 colors and a dip, but it's a pretty good deal. They just jumped into miniature gaming with Runewars and 8th edition and there seems to be a full court press to both get folks playing and make painted figs the norm.

Pretty cool.

Holy moly, that's a great deal for that many minis painted, even if only to a basic table top standard!

I owuld consider that deal and I probably wouldn't even play Rune Wars with it!

Finally ordered the core set. A couple of factors held me back until now: hideous, gimmicky jigsaw bases and relatively uninspiring miniatures representing "who cares" level IP. But these factors are powerfully outweighed by others. First, it is such a short trip from the box to the tabletop. (For whatever reason not painting these guys before playing does not bother me as much as with other mini games.) Second, the gameplay really shines in batreps - lots of familiar (in a good way) mechanics from X-Wing. Third, even of thegame were to get no further support beyond rounding out the current four factions to the level of the first two, this would already be a fairly "complete" game.

Looking forward to GenCon announcements about RW!

dosiere wrote:
It's probably never going to get huge, but as long as FFG supports it I'm down

Unfortunately, that right there is what some of us are afraid of: it won't be big, therefore it won't be supported. Yes I know, they're beating it pretty heavily out of the gate. But where will it be six months from now, or twelve?

More power to them, I hope they do well. But FFG is certainly willing to throw it down the dustbin if they don't get the numbers they want.

meister0, we should get a pretty good idea of what to expect from GenCon