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Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:07:15


Post by: Destrado


Update 28/04 - Psychic Phase

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/28/new-warhammer-40000-psychic-phase/

Spoiler:
The Psychic phase for the new Warhammer 40,000 has changed a fair bit.

Previously, each of your psykers would generate warp charge for your pool. This worked pretty well in most games, but in very psyker-heavy armies, it often meant that some psykers sat around not doing a whole bunch, while one or two mega-psykers (we’re looking at you, Magnus – you big warp charge hog) had all the fun.

In the new system, the Psychic phase has been re-worked from the ground up.

Each time you pick a psyker, you can cast as many spells as their datasheet states (which would previously be the same as their Mastery Level) and there’s a simpler, two-dice mechanic for casting, you just need to beat the warp charge value. The more potent the power, the harder it will be to cast.



Enemy psykers will then have a chance to block these powers if they are within 24″, and again, the mastery of the psyker will dictate how often they can block a power each turn.

The new system is much more scalable – meaning that the phase works well at any size of game, with any number of psykers running around.

Perils of the Warp is still there of course. It wouldn’t be Warhammer 40,000 without the chance of accidentally having your mind eaten by a Daemon and your soul sucked into the psychic oblivion of the Warp while your body exploded in a multifaceted explosion of etheric ichor…

Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers. In addition, every psyker knows the Smite power:



Mortal Wounds are a new mechanic too – these cannot be saved by any means and punch straight through thick armour and even invulnerable saves! Ouch.

That’s the basics on the Psychic phase.

We’ll be back tomorrow with news on one of the updated war zones from the new Warhammer 40,000, and on Sunday, we’ll be looking at the Shooting phase.





UPDATE/RUMOUR 27/04/2017 (if someone can confirm reliability...)

 Chief wrote:
From mini wars:

Begin to hear rumors about the launch of 8th edition in the comments section Sergio gives specific dates:
" Warhammer 40k 8th enters preorder on June 3 goes on sale on June 17 , the box for two typical players of all editions will be Ultramarines (new rescaled ) vs death guard ."

http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/04/rumores-8-edicion-40k.html


I think Deathguard vs. Ultra is pretty much a given, and that those marines(or some of them) will be the Nultramarines (but I think rescaled isn't correct)


UPDATE 25-04-2017 (in b4 Alpharius )

 KiloFiX wrote:
Foley answered some more questions on twitter regarding 8th today:

No D weapons.

No shooting into or out of combat (unlike AoS).

Fixed to hit (like AoS, unlike SWA).

Has Strength vs Toughness to Wound (unlike AoS).

No random Initiative turn (unlike AoS).

Core rules are about 14 pages not including narrative, matched play, battle forged stuff.



UPDATE FROM THE LIVE STREAM ON 04-24-2017:

 Latro_ wrote:
40k Live FAQ Summary as best i could do it!

- No more armour on vehicles. Vehicles have a damage table as they take damage (wounds) stats decrease, every vehicle has its own damage table. e.g. Bolters could hurt tanks.
- Specfically mentioned everyone can hurt everyone else owing to S and T in ref to vehicles.
- 14 force org charts in core rules, if you meet you generate command points one use only. re-roll dice, interupt chargers going first mentioned. Hints these force orgs tottally replace formations.
- Limited to 1cmd point perphase. Certain force orgs give you more or less points. Gives example of big brigate detachment which gives you 9 cms points.
- Codexes not going away, there will be books with their own army command points
- Templates going away confirmed!
- Every army gets rules day one. 5 books, rules for all armies split across these. (low price point mentioned, a lot less than a codex)
- Expansions will still be part of the game planet strike etc will be re-written
- 'Every unit playtestest a lot' after 'will riptides be nerfed' quetion. Mention of massive community playtesting in USA
- Annual rules updates like AoS generals handbook taking community feedback
- 40k rules will have free PDF digital + printed store copies
- No specific tournament rules but guidelines in matched play
- Top goals in dev: 1. game that worked for all three ways to play. 2. More balanced 3. More accessible
- Background focussed more Imperium vs Chaos, acknowledges chaos has slipped and want to bring that back to the main focus of the game
- Wont confirm a release date 'this year'
- Two points system 'Power level' narative play each unit has a general power level value. Full granular common points ssytem for matched play.
- All factions still in, new website missing ones is just a narative thing.
- There will be new factions (hinted at on launch)
- Big monsters will also loose stats like vehicles as they take damage
- Stats no longer capped at 10!
- Multiple damage e.g. wounds is in on weapons
- Matched play 1000pts to anything
- Allies still in works different though. Keywords system very specific on factions gives an example a marine with spec rules prob wont pass onto allies.
- Mentions close combat is viable.
- Background will move on but not radically change. Some on launch which will 'blow people away'
- Everyday from now on till launch will be a warhammer community article on new 40k - kinda hints its coming out sooner rather than later
- If you'v bought a book within 8 weeks of launch, you can email customer services and get a voucher for value of the book bought




Current state of the galaxy...






New marines / New starter box? ----> Discussion about the New Marines here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/724088.page


Given that two of them look exactly the same, I'm betting they will be part of the new starter.

Spoiler:








Surprised this isn't posted yet...



https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/22/breaking-news/

Over the last few months, it’s been pretty clear that something has been coming – we’ve seen the Baal System threatened by the Tyranids, war erupting across the Damocles Gulf, a Daemon Primarch return in the Fenris System and most recently, the events of the Gathering Storm, in which worlds fell, gods were born and a Primarch rose from his 10,000 year slumber.

The new Warhammer 40,000 will see the continuation of these epic events – this is the universe you know and love, but the story of the galaxy is advancing. Be prepared for some major and exciting developments in the story of the Dark Millennium.

We’ve taken this chance to make some major improvements to the game, and we really think this is going to be the best edition yet. We’ve worked with the community to forge these new rules – so if you’ve sent in suggestions or gotten involved in the FAQ process on our Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page over the past year, then you have helped shape this new edition – so thanks to all of you for your input!

This is the game you know, but improved, faster, bloodier and better. The rules team have gone to great lengths to make sure that every unit, weapon, vehicle and character has its role – everything will be useful, and every miniature will have a place in your army.

We know you’ll have questions. Hopefully you’ll find a few answers here, in our FAQ on the new edition.

We’re not stopping there, though – we’ll be bringing you more news every day here on the Warhammer Community site.

But wait, there’s more.

To celebrate the upcoming new edition, and to introduce any of you who may be new to Warhammer 40,000, we’ve created an all new website. Go here to explore this grim dark setting and discover the factions that battle for supremacy in the far future (plus a few hints at what may be to come…).

Check it out at warhammer40000.com:



Teaser



FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/22/the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-your-questions-answered/


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:10:07


Post by: Loremaster Of Awesomeness


Yeah, has a great video that gives away... NOTHING! Yeay!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:11:24


Post by: MarkNorfolk


...and the link to the FAQ gets a 404!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:13:26


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


They had one job to do.

Also - why not announce this live at Salute?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:15:31


Post by: Destrado


I admit I hadn't looked at the video yet, it is rather weak all things considered... But hey, it looks like a new marine helmet in the pic, possibly nu-marines? The other half is Death Guard. I wonder what's in store for the boxed set when it comes out...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:16:07


Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin


Aye FAQ seems to confirm codex books are being replaced is some form.. I'm good with that though, free rules online almost certainly indicates some kind of AOS effect though.. which I am also happy with.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:16:07


Post by: Loremaster Of Awesomeness


'Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.'

So, it's definately going down the Sigmar route? Ok then


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:17:01


Post by: Formosa


**A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.

Called it


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:18:05


Post by: Latro_


faq up

The New Edition of Warhammer 40,000 – Your
questions answered
A new edition of Warhammer 40,000 is on the way!
To many of you, this will be an awesome surprise. To others, an exciting confirmation of what
you already suspected. For all of you, we’re sure it heralds questions aplenty.
Here then is an FAQ* that answers a few of them. For more news and information over the
coming days and weeks, make sure you check out warhammer-community.com where we’ll be
running daily articles on all things Warhammer 40,000. There’ll be news, there’ll be rules
previews, there might even be some pictures of new models…

Is my army still valid?
Yes, it certainly is! You’ll still be able to use your army in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000.
All current armies will be supported with new rules.
Can I still use all my models?

Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of
Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available
from the get go in handy, low-cost books.

Even Forge World models?
Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models.

Wait, did you guys blow up the universe?
Nope. This is very much still the Warhammer 40,000 setting you know and love. Now, that’s not
to say we won’t see the story advance - there’s some pretty epic stuff ahead! You can certainly
expect to see the story arcs that began in the recent Gathering Storm campaign books continue
to unfold with plenty of exciting developments to look forward to…

How can I get the rules?
We’re going to make it easier than ever to get your hands on the rules and start playing.
The core rules for the game will be free, and you’ll have several options on how you get your
hands on the full rulebook. Watch this space for more.

Have you dumbed down 40K?
Not at all. We’ve made it easier for new people to enter and get to grips with the basics. At the
same time, we’ve made sure you can add as much depth and complexity as you like - there’s
some fantastic new gameplay elements coming. What we’ve done is reexamine every aspect of
the game, and made plenty of improvements, many based on the gaming community’s
feedback and suggestions. If you play today, this game is recognisably still Warhammer 40,000.

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo
n. If you do want to
pick any up, now’s the time - as all of the great hobby content and background information will
be as valid as ever.

What's in the new starter box?

A new starter box? That’d be exciting! I guess we’d fill it with some awesome new miniatures…
(come on, we can’t spoil all the surprises for you!)

Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play - one of three ways to play
covered in the rulebook.

What do you mean “3 ways to play”?
We realise that people like to play Warhammer 40,000 in different ways. 3 broad systems are
covered in the new edition: 1) Open play is the most flexible, and easiest to get started with,
allowing you to use any miniatures you like. 2) Narrative play is where you can refight the iconic
battles of the 41st Millennium, or create your own campaigns and sagas. 3) Matched play is
designed for more balanced and competitive games, ideal for gaming clubs, leagues and
tournaments. However you want to enjoy playing Warhammer 40,000, there will be rules for
that.

Why should I not just stick with current Warhammer 40,000?
This is the version of Warhammer 40,000 you've been asking for. We've listened to your
feedback, and we really believe that this is the best Warhammer 40,000 has ever been.

Will the rules be updated annually (ala, the General's Handbook)?
What a great idea! We've had such a fantastic response to our community-led approach with the
Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules updates that we're committed to doing the same for
Warhammer 40,000. You’ll be able to submit your questions and queries on the Warhammer
40,000 Facebook page and we'll make sure we continue to evolve the game as feedback rolls
in.
I haven’t played 40K in a while...
Welcome back! The new Warhammer 40,000 is easier to learn and quicker to play, but still has
all the tactical, strategic and narrative depth you could want from a game set in the incredibly
rich setting of the 41st Millennium. It’s going to be easier than ever to get started, and more fun
than ever to master.

Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™
Seriously though, everything we're talking about now is just an extension of all the community
engagement work we've been doing over this last year and a half. We've learned a lot from you
guys and gals, and we've tried really hard to make sure everything you've asked for is included.
And if we've missed something? Drop us a line on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and
let us know. We'll make sure your requests are given proper consideration.

Where can I find out more?
We’ll be running daily articles on the run up to release on warhammer-community.com. Every
aspect of the new edition will be covered, from rules, to new miniatures and advancements in
the setting.
I love it. I want it. When can I have it!
Really soon. You’ll be playing the new Warhammer 40,000 this year.
We’ll let you know when we have more news on an exact release date. Stay posted.
For the latest news, follow us on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page, or subscribe to our
newsletter.

What do I do now?
Now's the time to start getting your army ready.
With the addition of 3 ways to play, there are now more ways to build your collection than ever
before. Open play frees you from all constraints, so now's the time to just pick a model you've
always wanted and paint it up. For you narrative players, why not start theming your collection
around your favourite battle? Just like many of you, we want our armies to be fighting fit for
matched play in the new edition. That's why you'll be able to read daily articles on the
Warhammer Community site that will tell you all about the new rules, great units to include and
tactics for every army.
*The edition’s not even out and you guys have an FAQ - how times have changed!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:18:49


Post by: Formosa


 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
'Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.'

So, it's definately going down the Sigmar route? Ok then


which isnt a bad thing.

At the moment we have

A: Unbound, which is basically open play with points

B: Campaigns, which is campaign play with points

C: points play, which is non points play with points.

SO whats actually changing there, not much yet, we shall have to see.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:19:06


Post by: Earth127


Perfect.

They did say that would probably be the case if the next edition was vastly different at the last horus heresy weekenender. Nice to have confirmation.

Also the AoS-route , especially the 3 styles of play, sounds good to me and an answer to a lotof the common complaints. Yes army building and rules clutter, I am looking at you


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:20:03


Post by: Minijack


Forget that crap!

Im off to finger paint and color..


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:20:09


Post by: Destrado


Awesome

Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™

Seriously though, everything we’re talking about now is just an extension of all the community engagement work we’ve been doing over this last year and a half. We’ve learned a lot from you guys and gals, and we’ve tried really hard to make sure everything you’ve asked for is included. And if we’ve missed something? Drop us a line on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and let us know. We’ll make sure your requests are given proper consideration.


This does cheer me up, and I think also shows they do listen.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:21:26


Post by: Latro_


What happens to my codexes?
'The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n'.

This one is gonna cause a bit of rage! every 40k book you'v bought, codexs supplements, FW IA.... all kapoot


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:21:50


Post by: Minijack


 Formosa wrote:
 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
'Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.'

So, it's definately going down the Sigmar route? Ok then


which isnt a bad thing.

At the moment we have

A: Unbound, which is basically open play with points

B: Campaigns, which is campaign play with points

C: points play, which is non points play with points.


SO whats actually changing there, not much yet, we shall have to see.




Except that the old codex`s are no longer compatible with the new rules.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:24:44


Post by: Loremaster Of Awesomeness


So, can we say that the rules are going to go the AoS route (set hit and wound characteristics)?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:25:06


Post by: Hragged


So free rules, updated yearly, with community input - nice!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:25:25


Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin


Minijack wrote:




Except that the old codex`s are no longer compatible with the new rules.


As with AoS, expect temp codex's online to keep your army in the game.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:27:27


Post by: Mymearan


 Latro_ wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
'The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n'.

This one is gonna cause a bit of rage! every 40k book you'v bought, codexs supplements, FW IA.... all kapoot


It's harsh but it was needed to stop the spiral of crappy rules-upon-rules to patch a system that was being crushed under its own weight.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:27:29


Post by: Formosa


Minijack wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
'Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.'

So, it's definately going down the Sigmar route? Ok then


which isnt a bad thing.

At the moment we have

A: Unbound, which is basically open play with points

B: Campaigns, which is campaign play with points

C: points play, which is non points play with points.


SO whats actually changing there, not much yet, we shall have to see.




Except that the old codex`s are no longer compatible with the new rules.


Utterly irrelevant, i still own the old books and have pdfs etc. if/when this new ED sucks, i will carry on regardless.

Look people, dont fall into the hyperbole and overreact, the same happens every ED, if you dont like it, dont play it and carry on with the current ED.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:28:01


Post by: xttz


 Latro_ wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
'The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n'.

This one is gonna cause a bit of rage! every 40k book you'v bought, codexs supplements, FW IA.... all kapoot


But on the flipside... there is no need to purchase anymore codexes in future. No more £30 tax to use new models whenever your army is updated...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:30:19


Post by: Mymearan


 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
So, can we say that the rules are going to go the AoS route (set hit and wound characteristics)?


No


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:30:52


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 xttz wrote:
 Latro_ wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
'The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n'.

This one is gonna cause a bit of rage! every 40k book you'v bought, codexs supplements, FW IA.... all kapoot


But on the flipside... there is no need to purchase anymore codexes in future. No more £30 tax to use new models whenever your army is updated...


They say there's going to be new codexes, so I don't think that's right. Hopefully cheaper, but you never know


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:31:05


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Latro_ wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
'The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n'.

This one is gonna cause a bit of rage! every 40k book you'v bought, codexs supplements, FW IA.... all kapoot

It's a good thing I made sure to not buy any new 40k rule books for the past year and a bit in anticipation of this.

A bit surprised to see a whole new website though.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:31:35


Post by: Thud


The level of self-awareness in that FAQ is pretty impressive.

I'm quite optimistic.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:32:30


Post by: lliu


I think that this could really go both ways. Either they go straight, following fan feedback, and continue to expand their worlds of gaming, this could be the best edition of 40k. Or, if they were to convolute, and start trying to milk money again, by making excessive troops with half-assed crappy bases, this could kill 40k. Either way, I am happy with how Rountree has lead the company (start collecting, Horus Heresy boxes, Blood Bowl, Armageddon), and I think that this will probably change for the better.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:32:42


Post by: ERJAK


 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
So, can we say that the rules are going to go the AoS route (set hit and wound characteristics)?


No because that would be a stupid leap off a cliff of anti-logic. What you can say for sure is the stuff we saw at adepticon and the stuff available in the FAQ here. Anything else is speculation or tinfoil-hattery depending on the level of crazy.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:32:52


Post by: Mr Morden


 Thud wrote:
The level of self-awareness in that FAQ is pretty impressive.

I'm quite optimistic.


Agreed - I enjoy getting new updates and emails from them these days even just to raise a smile.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:33:02


Post by: lliu


 Thud wrote:
The level of self-awareness in that FAQ is pretty impressive.

I'm quite optimistic.
True. They basically said that they knew that they sucked during that period.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:33:15


Post by: 3orangewhips


The removal of codexes was a necessary step. Painful for those with a large investment in books/PDFs, and I recognize that.

But they had to change at some point. And this will stop years and years of weakness/domination of particularly cheesed-out combos (or so I hope).


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:35:44


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


I'm almost optimistic about this.

Lets hope they cut out the bloat, and stick to it, and not succumb to the siren call of adding in layers and layers of useless piffle over the lifespan of the edition. Which they always, always do.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:36:27


Post by: warboss


What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:37:27


Post by: ERJAK


 Mymearan wrote:
 Latro_ wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
'The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n'.

This one is gonna cause a bit of rage! every 40k book you'v bought, codexs supplements, FW IA.... all kapoot


It's harsh but it was needed to stop the spiral of crappy rules-upon-rules to patch a system that was being crushed under its own weight.


I will happily trade every penny I spent on rulebooks for not having to deal with the asinine crap that was in those books anymore.

Seriously, Chaos daemons' rulebooks of all shapes and sizes were a blight on humanity that proves there is no such thing as a benevolent god.

Also Eldar and Grav were OP.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:39:14


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


RazorEdge wrote:


New Marines


Are they? Just look like more marine to me. I confess to not being a rivet-counter in this matter though.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:39:22


Post by: warboss


Will the rules be updated annually (ala, the General's Handbook)?
What a great idea! We've had such a fantastic response to our community-led approach with the
Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules updates that we're committed to doing the same for
Warhammer 40,000. You’ll be able to submit your questions and queries on the Warhammer
40,000 Facebook page and we'll make sure we continue to evolve the game as feedback rolls
in.


For those who play AOS, are the annual updates (ala the General's Handbook) also free content albeit maybe in basic no art or fancy layout form? Or will the base game be free and then you must pay a yearly rules subscription fee to stay updated?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:40:14


Post by: Whirlwind


 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
'Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.'

So, it's definately going down the Sigmar route? Ok then


Yeah looks like it. Core rules are free and a 40K Compendium will be released at the same time. Though I note that there are 'books' going to be released to cover all the armies so you might need more than one book if you have multiple armies (I assume it will go like AoS though with lots of mini factions)

I'd also bet by last dollar that the core rules are pretty much going to be AoS and that the base unit stats will be included as part of the box (and in the same method, so no table comparisons, just 3+ to hit etc, 4+ to wound etc).

However I'd note that Codexes appear to already selling out so grab them while you can if you want them!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:40:50


Post by: warboss


Pistols at Dawn wrote:


Are they? Just look like more marine to me. I confess to not being a rivet-counter in this matter though.


Look at the legs and the overall height to width ratios. They resemble the truescale marine conversions more than 3rd edition marines.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:40:53


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:43:27


Post by: warboss


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:44:07


Post by: unmercifulconker


DG have their own selection when you choose chaos as your alliegience.

AND OOOHHHHH MA GAAAAAME THOSE TRUESCALE MARINES! THEY WERE REAL.

This is awesome? Truescale marines Vs DG in starter? Errrrrr YES YES YES!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:46:13


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:46:30


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


'Truescale' marines are just more marines though. I don't get why people get so excited over this.

Can't blame GW really - marines is what pays the bills.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:47:05


Post by: SeanDrake


 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:48:04


Post by: DarkBlack


ERJAK wrote:
Seriously, Chaos daemons' rulebooks of all shapes and sizes were a blight on humanity that proves there is no such thing as a benevolent god.


Chaos gods though...

On topic: I hope the rules availability is like in AoS (i.e. all rules required for open play are free).


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:49:20


Post by: warboss


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:49:30


Post by: CthuluIsSpy




Wait, did you guys blow up the universe?
Nope. This is very much still the Warhammer 40,000 setting you know and love. Now, that’s not to say we won’t see the story advance – there’s some pretty epic stuff ahead! You can certainly expect to see the story arcs that began in the recent Gathering Storm campaign books continue to unfold with plenty of exciting developments to look forward to…


THEY KNOW


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:49:33


Post by: kronk


 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
'Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.'

So, it's definately going down the Sigmar route? Ok then


They said exactly this at the AdeptiCon seminar in March.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:51:23


Post by: Whirlwind


 warboss wrote:
Pistols at Dawn wrote:


Are they? Just look like more marine to me. I confess to not being a rivet-counter in this matter though.


Look at the legs and the overall height to width ratios. They resemble the truescale marine conversions more than 3rd edition marines.


Yeah the poses are different for the tactical marines (the existing ones are much more flat footed). My guess these are from the new starter set... I don't also recognise the painting book in the background so I'm assuming this might also be included in the box set.

As for them being truescale marines, just a word of caution - there was a slight but perceptible size increase in the new AoS models too. They might just be rescaling everything and hence once other factions are released the overall relative scale might just be the same.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:51:30


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


It was real
Spoiler:


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:51:43


Post by: kronk


 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


100% agreement.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:52:20


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


Would Games workshop do a thing like that?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:52:22


Post by: ERJAK


SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:52:41


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.

I suppose we'll just see. It's possible the GH's digital version might just get a free update.

It would still leave the physical medium behind (which sucks for everyone who like me prefers a physical book and also doesn't want to buy/carry a tablet with them to play) and requiring repurchase, but it would be better.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:53:32


Post by: Kanluwen


 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.

The only thing that General's Handbook is required for is playing point matches. Same thing with the various army/campaign books and specific formations.

They've been learning, quite frankly, with the individual army books and making things much better. That's why we've gotten two Stormcast Eternal and Khorne books within a short timeframe.
The individual army books now contain much of the stuff that was in GHB.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:53:43


Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame


Pistols at Dawn wrote:
'Truescale' marines are just more marines though. I don't get why people get so excited over this.

Can't blame GW really - marines is what pays the bills.

I can see why people get excited. One reason is the current Space Marine looks small compared to IG and some other models. The other reason is that if they release a new, bigger marine it might make people's existing models look weird, especially if they are mixed and matched within the same army.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:54:46


Post by: Not-not-kenny


To be fair, the GHB is probably the cheapest book GW sells at that size.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:55:06


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.


Good to know you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. About the only thing you got right was the price cost and MAYBE the melting bit if you leave your models in a car in the sun at midday in the middle of summer while living in a tropical or sub-tropical region...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:55:12


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


ERJAK wrote:


30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower .


This is superb. Stealing.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:55:16


Post by: warboss


SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


That's why I said hopefully. In any case, the days of me preordering sight unseen 40k rules ended permanently with 7th edition as it was the second chance they blew after the crack in the door bs that they introduced 2 years earlier in 6th. Luckily, I get to sit back and wait to see what comes out the other end. If they maintain the game design ethos that gave us the last 5 years (and I personally include AOS in that), they won't make any money off of me. Even if I like 8th, they could still screw it up by not making followup all but mandatory rules free in some basic form.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:55:20


Post by: ERJAK


 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


The general's handbooks cost 18$ for the PDF, 25 for the paper copy. The full 40k rule book was what 80? That's 3-4 GHBs for each 40k rulebook and the GHB is better for the game.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:55:47


Post by: Minijack


Dropped 40k the day AoS released and have been playing that ever since...sold off 3 of my 7 40k armies,saving the other 4 just for this occasion.

Feeling good now!!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:56:06


Post by: Whirlwind


SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Yeah if you want everything in book format (so campaigns/rulebooks etc) then costs have gone up massively and they do all have unique bonuses that 'assists' the armies.

Be wary about 30k though because the FAQ states "Well, for the moment, it won’t!". That implies that changes might come in the future. Perhaps they are hedging their bets by having the two systems.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:56:11


Post by: NoggintheNog


So, those marines look bigger - very much like that leaked photo that people argued to death was fake.

Other than that, pretty much as expected, the AoS route of no points play if wanted, yearly rule updates and rather than codexes, various campaign books.

For me its all in the rules, I'm currently enjoying the warpath ruleset for bigger battles, its much better than current 40k, we will see what they come up with.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:56:38


Post by: Silentz


Interesting from the new site... this page: https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

The three groupings (possibly a clue to there being three battle time books that will come out) are Chaos, Imperial, Xenos

Also... Skitarii are not listed separately to Adeptus Mechanicus


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:56:59


Post by: kronk


 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


The General's handbook is 25$, dude. Calm down. Further, you don't need the campaign books. Go look at the AoS page on GW site. Free pdfs galore for the armies and inexpensive Generals Handbook.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:57:22


Post by: Mymearan


SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


- Battletomes rent bi-yearly. They've re-released two Battletomes, Stormcast and Bloodbound, because the Sylvaneth Battletome heralded a completely new format and they needed to be updated. This is a new game and they were scrambling to find a format that worked, don't expect this to happen again in the same way. Plus, you can buy all the rules content from the Battletomes piecemeal in the app for cheaper. Plus, the books are already cheap to begin with.
- Yearly GHB is a positive, and it's like $20, can't see how anyone would see that as a problem. There are no formations in the GHB and you can get all the points free on scrollbuilder.com anyway, so you don't really need more than one per playgroup.
- Campaign books don't have any matched play content in them, the battalions in there don't even get points cost. Other than that it's just fluff and narrative scenarios.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:57:37


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


Anyone who has been playing Workshops games for longer than 5 nanoseconds, should not be surprised AT ALL, that they want to figuratively hold nerds upside down by their ankles and shake them vigorously until all the money falls out.

Just get the base rules and stats, and gin up a scenario with yer mates. The slickest PR trick they've pulled is somehow convincing a large section of gamers that you need to buy umpteen books to get the 3 pages of rules.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:58:14


Post by: RyanAvx


 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
It was real
Spoiler:


I was just about to post this lol! Look at the marine being painted. The armour is the same as the one in the leak. Get wrecked naysayers!!!! I was right!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:58:48


Post by: sfshilo


 warboss wrote:
Will the rules be updated annually (ala, the General's Handbook)?
What a great idea! We've had such a fantastic response to our community-led approach with the
Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules updates that we're committed to doing the same for
Warhammer 40,000. You’ll be able to submit your questions and queries on the Warhammer
40,000 Facebook page and we'll make sure we continue to evolve the game as feedback rolls
in.


For those who play AOS, are the annual updates (ala the General's Handbook) also free content albeit maybe in basic no art or fancy layout form? Or will the base game be free and then you must pay a yearly rules subscription fee to stay updated?


You have three options for points.
Buy the monthly sub army builder. OR buy the digital book in their app. Or buy an ebook or hardback.

Rules are free, formations for new books are not.
Most armies got 2-3 free formations.
Formations and armies rules make it hugely advantagious to keep an army monofaction. IE if you take the random inquisitor you may not be able to field your normal troop choice.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 13:59:27


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Pistols at Dawn wrote:
'Truescale' marines are just more marines though. I don't get why people get so excited over this.

Can't blame GW really - marines is what pays the bills.

I can see why people get excited. One reason is the current Space Marine looks small compared to IG and some other models. The other reason is that if they release a new, bigger marine it might make people's existing models look weird, especially if they are mixed and matched within the same army.


That's sounding like a bad thing, having wonky scaled minis in the same army. Truescale has the air of fan service material about it.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:00:13


Post by: Loremaster Of Awesomeness


Obviously, it's difficult to say at this stage, does this look to be a Summer release?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:00:18


Post by: warboss


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Would Games workshop do a thing like that?


Answered in the FAQ. It's *NEW* Games Workshop. In any case, if there ever would be a change for the better, it would be now. Please note that the preceding statement doesn't comment on the probability of it happened but rather the appropriateness of this situation to a potential change for the better.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:00:20


Post by: Tsilber


I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:01:51


Post by: Rippy


Free rules? Lots of ways to play?! They bloody listened to us?! I am excited.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:02:04


Post by: crimsondave


 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


Looks like a big leap there. We don't know squat yet, but lets say that is 100% accurate. Is $40 a year really that big of a deal to play the game? I mean, if 40k actually got fixes to broken rules on a regular basis, wouldn't that be worth $40 (or 30 pounds) a year?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:02:47


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
Obviously, it's difficult to say at this stage, does this look to be a Summer release?


Would have thought so, going by their previous form.

Should imagine the freebie rules and accompanying releases in a month or so, then the new box in June/July.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:03:15


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.


Good to know you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. About the only thing you got right was the price cost and MAYBE the melting bit if you leave your models in a car in the sun at midday in the middle of summer while living in a tropical or sub-tropical region...


Or a reasonably warm English summers day. Finecast was a shoddy product foisted on the fanbase by a company aiming to extract money from the foolish. "Crisp" money.

8th edition has an air of the same thing, but people will dutifully queue up to buy, and then moan about, it.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:03:15


Post by: Mymearan


 sfshilo wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Will the rules be updated annually (ala, the General's Handbook)?
What a great idea! We've had such a fantastic response to our community-led approach with the
Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules updates that we're committed to doing the same for
Warhammer 40,000. You’ll be able to submit your questions and queries on the Warhammer
40,000 Facebook page and we'll make sure we continue to evolve the game as feedback rolls
in.


For those who play AOS, are the annual updates (ala the General's Handbook) also free content albeit maybe in basic no art or fancy layout form? Or will the base game be free and then you must pay a yearly rules subscription fee to stay updated?


You have three options for points.
Buy the monthly sub army builder. OR buy the digital book in their app. Or buy an ebook or hardback.

.


There is a fourth option, get the points free on GWs scrollbuilder.com.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:04:01


Post by: Kanluwen


Tsilber wrote:
I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...

Were you around for the Age of Sigmar launch?

They made the books non-compatible, but had "get you by" lists ready at launch.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:04:41


Post by: Rippy


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.


Good to know you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. About the only thing you got right was the price cost and MAYBE the melting bit if you leave your models in a car in the sun at midday in the middle of summer while living in a tropical or sub-tropical region...


Or a reasonably warm English summers day. Finecast was a shoddy product foisted on the fanbase by a company aiming to extract money from the foolish. "Crisp" money.

8th edition has an air of the same thing, but people will dutifully queue up to buy, and then moan about, it.

Buy? No, it is free.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:04:52


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


So these True-Scale chappies mean they'll have to re-do all the transports, bikes, assault marines, devastators, etc, etc to match up? Ie, sell players the exact same army over?

Sounds like GW.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:05:40


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 warboss wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Would Games workshop do a thing like that?


Answered in the FAQ. It's *NEW* Games Workshop. In any case, if there ever would be a change for the better, it would be now. Please note that the preceding statement doesn't comment on the probability of it happened but rather the appropriateness of this situation to a potential change for the better.


New Coke. Nuff said.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:06:25


Post by: warboss


ERJAK wrote:
The general's handbooks cost 18$ for the PDF, 25 for the paper copy. The full 40k rule book was what 80? That's 3-4 GHBs for each 40k rulebook and the GHB is better for the game.


Mini softcover rulebooks instead of the hardbound slipcase trio existed and were sold on the secondary market for half to 1/3 the price of the hardcover set. In any case, I don't think a $25 yearly rules update subscription free (if the rules are in effect mandatory and GW knows/counts on it) is an improvement. I experienced that in 3rd edition and it wasn't a better choice. Trial assault rules anyone? New vehicle rules? All yearly separate books/purchases that were in effect mandatory at least in my local area even if GW labelled them otherwise. If they go down the free living rules rabbithole they should just dive in instead of just poking their head in and having their ass sticking out the other end.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:06:51


Post by: Loremaster Of Awesomeness


Pistols at Dawn wrote:
So these True-Scale chappies mean they'll have to re-do all the transports, bikes, assault marines, devastators, etc, etc to match up? Ie, sell players the exact same army over?

Sounds like GW.


'Can I still use all my models?
Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available from the get go in handy, low-cost books.'

Apparently, you don't have to


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:07:02


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Rippy wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.


Good to know you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. About the only thing you got right was the price cost and MAYBE the melting bit if you leave your models in a car in the sun at midday in the middle of summer while living in a tropical or sub-tropical region...


Or a reasonably warm English summers day. Finecast was a shoddy product foisted on the fanbase by a company aiming to extract money from the foolish. "Crisp" money.

8th edition has an air of the same thing, but people will dutifully queue up to buy, and then moan about, it.

Buy? No, it is free.


Apart from new minis, new army books and the inevitable "upgrade handbook". £35 a go.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:07:59


Post by: Rippy


Full Legion rules incoming? Under choose your faction it currently lists Death Guard and Thousand Sons seperate from CSM


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:08:36


Post by: Nightlord1987


Does this mean all supplements (without points listed) are invalid already too?

Waited years for Traitor Legions.... Two month lifespan.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:08:59


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
Pistols at Dawn wrote:
So these True-Scale chappies mean they'll have to re-do all the transports, bikes, assault marines, devastators, etc, etc to match up? Ie, sell players the exact same army over?

Sounds like GW.


'Can I still use all my models?
Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available from the get go in handy, low-cost books.'

Apparently, you don't have to


Will existing armies have the same "neigh like a pony for a reroll" rules that they put in the AoS rules?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:11:03


Post by: Rippy


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does this mean all supplements (without points listed) are invalid already too?

Waited years for Traitor Legions.... Two month lifespan.

Look at my post before yours


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:12:02


Post by: ncshooter426


I love the salt flowing already over this. I'm amazed that folks actually don't like where this is going.

I am very happy -- I just want the damn rules and warscrolls for SIsters+DE available like NOW.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:13:13


Post by: Mymearan


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does this mean all supplements (without points listed) are invalid already too?

Waited years for Traitor Legions.... Two month lifespan.


Of course, the core rules are being completely revamped.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:13:57


Post by: Pythagoras


Another dumb reset button? That isn't what we needed. The current level of complexity wasn't complex. Just too many people who lack the will to put any effort into their hobby.

More than likely the people in our area will be playing 7th until there are enough new army books so that they don't have to play a bland stripped down faction from a list against an opponent that has the newer super-powered book. That is, if they don't just switch to any other of hundreds of games that are more fun than the 40k constant pit of despair that the company keeps making their new editions.

GW's half-truth marketing isn't much different than it used to be. If they are changing to the horrible AoS style rules, they are being more subtle than the first time they crapped them out in their Hobbit game.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:14:04


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Spoiler:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.


Good to know you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. About the only thing you got right was the price cost and MAYBE the melting bit if you leave your models in a car in the sun at midday in the middle of summer while living in a tropical or sub-tropical region...


Or a reasonably warm English summers day. Finecast was a shoddy product foisted on the fanbase by a company aiming to extract money from the foolish. "Crisp" money.

If you took the time to read it properly you would have noticed we were talking about FW resin, not Finecast.
Different products, different materials.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:14:24


Post by: NivlacSupreme


So I still have to buy a book if I want to play normally?

Well that's great.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:14:24


Post by: kronk


 ncshooter426 wrote:
I love the salt flowing already over this. I'm amazed that folks actually don't like where this is going.

I am very happy -- I just want the damn rules and warscrolls for SIsters+DE available like NOW.


I am with you. I am excited and hopeful about what I am hearing.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:14:55


Post by: ncshooter426


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:


Will existing armies have the same "neigh like a pony for a reroll" rules that they put in the AoS rules?


I think you need to actually read up on the state of AoS. None of that gak actually exists in play. Biggest problem with people that bitch about AoS is that they've never actually played it. It kicks WFB in the nuts (KoW if you want that rank&file experience) and is heads above 40K in every way -- hence the reason 40K is going that route.

If you want to grant an additional victory point for MLP references, you are free to do so... in your own setting, open play, and preferably while very intoxicated.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:15:02


Post by: warboss


Pistols at Dawn wrote:
So these True-Scale chappies mean they'll have to re-do all the transports, bikes, assault marines, devastators, etc, etc to match up? Ie, sell players the exact same army over?

Sounds like GW.


I don't think they will. The vehicles are all consistent visually with each other and going back to rogue trader have typically never been capable of actually "realistically" fitting what they were supposedly transporting along with the necessary internals (engines, transmission, sensors, weapons, ammo, etc) necessary to actually make the vehicle run in 40k. Yes, I'm aware of 3rd edition conversions fitting 10 marines into a rhino (usually sticking out the top and with no room inside for the internal vehicle components). That aspect has always been left to the imagination and I see no reason for it to change with truescale-ish marines. YMMV but that doesn't bother me.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:15:22


Post by: Whirlwind


ERJAK wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


The general's handbooks cost 18$ for the PDF, 25 for the paper copy. The full 40k rule book was what 80? That's 3-4 GHBs for each 40k rulebook and the GHB is better for the game.


You are not really looking at over everything though. In the 2.0 years that AoS has been out you've had 14 battletomes at £25 each (approx), some for relatively pointless things like scenery etc (and are generally only for sub-factions). You've had a campaign series that totals £170. Then there is a core rulebook they have released (£45) and generals compendium. So if you want everything that's about £600 over the two years. Compare this to the assumption of a £50 rulebook and 12 Codexes/campaign styles of about £30 each then you are looking at £410. If you settle on just the core rules and the 40k compendium then yes it is more cost effective, but all these tomes do include special formations and rules etc. It's just the cost is drip fed more. There's now a larger proliferation in total rules in AoS than WFB ever had and the likelihood the same will happen in 40k. It's just that you don't need to use them all the time and the core rules are fairly basic at best.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:16:34


Post by: Mymearan


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:
Pistols at Dawn wrote:
So these True-Scale chappies mean they'll have to re-do all the transports, bikes, assault marines, devastators, etc, etc to match up? Ie, sell players the exact same army over?

Sounds like GW.


'Can I still use all my models?
Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available from the get go in handy, low-cost books.'

Apparently, you don't have to


Will existing armies have the same "neigh like a pony for a reroll" rules that they put in the AoS rules?


Hello 2015


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:16:54


Post by: Not-not-kenny


Tsilber wrote:
I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...


I don't understand this, why is having the same codex in a new edition that's not entirely compatible until you have to buy the new one better than getting new rules for free that are 100% compatible with the new edition?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:17:37


Post by: Sheck2


Cautiously optimistic. And just when I almost sold all of my painted armies...so I would be forced to buy new...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:18:02


Post by: Mr Morden


Tsilber wrote:
I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...


I don't see how they could have fixed the current rules and truely horrible balance issues and kept the current codexes.

They may not have fixed stuff - I hope they have but keeping the old codexes meant it would have been impossible.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:18:15


Post by: warboss


 kronk wrote:
The General's handbook is 25$, dude. Calm down. Further, you don't need the campaign books. Go look at the AoS page on GW site. Free pdfs galore for the armies and inexpensive Generals Handbook.


I'm totally calm.. I'm just not optimistic. There is a difference. I was optimistic with the 6th and 7th ed rollouts and have since been taught not to be. It's up to GW to convince skeptical customers otherwise (and at least their humor i.e. the new GW comment indicates they're aware of that need).


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:18:52


Post by: Rippy


 Not-not-kenny wrote:
Tsilber wrote:
I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...


I don't understand this, why is having the same codex in a new edition that's not entirely compatible until you have to buy the new one better than getting new rules for free that are 100% compatible with the new edition?

It is the internet, people will whine about everything.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:19:00


Post by: The Shadow


Oh God they're Sigmar-ifying it.

3 factions, 3 ways to play, making it "easier for new players to enter" (i.e. less depth to the rules), invalidating codices...

I'm going to need to be proved wrong and seriously impressed to continue in the hobby here. I'll be graduating soon and looking for jobs and my own place, and could do with a convenient excuse to not spend money on wargaming.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:19:02


Post by: TheDraconicLord


I am SO excited for this! These are amazing news! I can't wait to see what hey have done to the rules, maybe I'll be able to return to 40k's gaming side instead of only devouring books!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:19:30


Post by: Umbros


 Whirlwind wrote:


The general's handbooks cost 18$ for the PDF, 25 for the paper copy. The full 40k rule book was what 80? That's 3-4 GHBs for each 40k rulebook and the GHB is better for the game.


You are not really looking at over everything though. In the 2.0 years that AoS has been out you've had 14 battletomes at £25 each (approx), some for relatively pointless things like scenery etc (and are generally only for sub-factions). You've had a campaign series that totals £170. Then there is a core rulebook they have released (£45) and generals compendium. So if you want everything that's about £600 over the two years. Compare this to the assumption of a £50 rulebook and 12 Codexes/campaign styles of about £30 each then you are looking at £410. If you settle on just the core rules and the 40k compendium then yes it is more cost effective, but all these tomes do include special formations and rules etc. It's just the cost is drip fed more. There's now a larger proliferation in total rules in AoS than WFB ever had and the likelihood the same will happen in 40k. It's just that you don't need to use them all the time and the core rules are fairly basic at best.


For AOS you don't need to buy anything except the models to play the game. Yes, the GHB has the points in it, but you can use Scroll Builder for points (free) and that will even be hosted on GW's site soon.

The rules are included in every single book (except KO for some reason) and are freely available. All models come with rules/are freely available.

To suggest that situation and 40k are remotely comparable is insane. Yes you can buy the campaign books and the battle tomes. But that is completely optional. Unlike 40k.

Invalidating codexes is a bit unfortunate, but given that they will be supplying free rules for all units that seems like a bit much to complain about.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:19:46


Post by: Mitochondria


text removed.

Reds8n




Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:20:03


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


NivlacSupreme wrote:So I still have to buy a book if I want to play normally?

Well that's great.
You'd have to for any new edition, and at a higher price most likely. At least this one allows for the ability to play the game freely, to a degree.

I don't understand why people are complaining about their codex and rules being irrelevant and having to pay for an update. It's not a new thing. Codexes get updated, rules get updated, new things are released. You'd have to anyway, so why complain, especially when the rules are being revamped? Would you prefer to be stuck in 7th constantly? If you want to, then stay in 7th, that's up to you.

I'm just happy that it seems to be being done for cheaper, and that the core rules for newcomers are free. It looks more newcomer friendly, and looks like GW are actually listening.

I'm optimistic. If I'm proven wrong, so be it.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:21:09


Post by: Mymearan


 Whirlwind wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


The general's handbooks cost 18$ for the PDF, 25 for the paper copy. The full 40k rule book was what 80? That's 3-4 GHBs for each 40k rulebook and the GHB is better for the game.


You are not really looking at over everything though. In the 2.0 years that AoS has been out you've had 14 battletomes at £25 each (approx), some for relatively pointless things like scenery etc (and are generally only for sub-factions). You've had a campaign series that totals £170. Then there is a core rulebook they have released (£45) and generals compendium. So if you want everything that's about £600 over the two years. Compare this to the assumption of a £50 rulebook and 12 Codexes/campaign styles of about £30 each then you are looking at £410. If you settle on just the core rules and the 40k compendium then yes it is more cost effective, but all these tomes do include special formations and rules etc. It's just the cost is drip fed more. There's now a larger proliferation in total rules in AoS than WFB ever had and the likelihood the same will happen in 40k. It's just that you don't need to use them all the time and the core rules are fairly basic at best.


Again, the campaign books don't have any content for Matched play. Only narrative scenarios and battalions without points cost. And there's is no "core rule book", what you're talking about is actually the first campaign book. So what you're actually looking at if you want all the Matched play content are the existing Battletomes for factions (12x £25 on average) and the Generals Handbook (£15). So that's £315. If you want to play one army like most players you're looking at £40.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:21:46


Post by: Nicky J


 Destrado wrote:
Surprised this isn't posted yet...



posted this in the other thread that got shut off, but thought i'd post it again here;

that head looks a lot like some of the FW blood angels ones:
(wrong colour obviously tho)
EDIT: well looking at the side by side, they are not exactly the same - slashes/vents are in wrong direction, and they dont have the 'brow' that the pic has, probably more like the regular mkiv helms tbh



Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:22:06


Post by: Pistols at Dawn


 The Shadow wrote:
Oh God they're Sigmar-ifying it.

3 factions, 3 ways to play, making it "easier for new players to enter" (i.e. less depth to the rules), invalidating codices...

I'm going to need to be proved wrong and seriously impressed to continue in the hobby here. I'll be graduating soon and looking for jobs and my own place, and could do with a convenient excuse to not spend money on wargaming.


TBH, there's no real depth to 40k currently. All the choices are made in the list-building. When it comes down to it, despite the million special rules/formations, etc, when your minis are on the board your choices are 'Who do I shoot at/charge next?'.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:23:05


Post by: ncshooter426


 Whirlwind wrote:

You are not really looking at over everything though. In the 2.0 years that AoS has been out you've had 14 battletomes at £25 each (approx), some for relatively pointless things like scenery etc (and are generally only for sub-factions). You've had a campaign series that totals £170.


These BT's are nothing more than background fluff, small painting guides, scenario and formations. The formations, and the actual scrolls, are available online. Anyone who wants to play one of the scenarios in a GW store just walks over and opens one of the books as needed, BT is not required. Most of the goodies come from the GHB these days anyway.


Then there is a core rulebook they have released (£45) and generals compendium.


Rulebook is also not required, and never really used. GHB is a whopping 25bones -- the cheapest printed doc you'll find - and it's actually USEFUL.


So if you want everything that's about £600 over the two years. Compare this to the assumption of a £50 rulebook and 12 Codexes/campaign styles of about £30 each then you are looking at £410. If you settle on just the core rules and the 40k compendium then yes it is more cost effective, but all these tomes do include special formations and rules etc. It's just the cost is drip fed more.


The flaw in your math: A Codex is required to play, a BT is not. Your effective comparison drops drastically. The special formations and rules (there are no additional special rules -- every special rule for a unit is spelled out on their warscroll, not the BT) are accessible online. There is maybe a single formation in the BT that isn't in the GHB, which I'm pretty sure in v2 they're collapsing those in there as well.


There's now a larger proliferation in total rules in AoS than WFB ever had and the likelihood the same will happen in 40k. It's just that you don't need to use them all the time and the core rules are fairly basic at best.


If they managed to cram in more rules in AoS than WFB, it sure as feth doesn't feel like it. They managed to make a faster game, with far less complexity, while (per you) adding even more rules.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:23:10


Post by: Starfarer


RazorEdge wrote:


New Marines



#TeamReal has been vindicated!!!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:23:41


Post by: Draccan



People seem to miss an important fact:
The promised free core rules, but full rules have to be purchased. Core rules probably doesn't get you far.
And more important, the codexes are going away and replaced with cheap ones, but no where does it state that army lists and rules will now be online for free.

So unless that happens and they haven't stated that yet, the usual codex regurgitation and bloat will continue on and on...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:24:15


Post by: Lord Kragan


 The Shadow wrote:
Oh God they're Sigmar-ifying it.

3 factions, 3 ways to play, making it "easier for new players to enter" (i.e. less depth to the rules), invalidating codices...

I'm going to need to be proved wrong and seriously impressed to continue in the hobby here. I'll be graduating soon and looking for jobs and my own place, and could do with a convenient excuse to not spend money on wargaming.


What? Of course frigging not. Those are the classisfications we've always had: it's always been imperium, chaos and xenos, not actual formal factions.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:25:19


Post by: Draccan


Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:26:55


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Whirlwind wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
No one knows as the 2nd General's Handbook hasn't been released yet. It could go either way.


What about the first one? Did they put up the rules (without fluff, art, explanations, etc) on their website for free after they released it?

Nope, you have to buy it (either physically or digitally).


Then in that case it is NOT an improvement. One purchase every five years vs a purchase at 2/3 the cost EVERY year for five years to keep updated is a step back in terms of actual barrier to playing. I hope they don't pull that gak and label it as somehow consumer friendly like they did with unbound and formations.


The general's handbooks cost 18$ for the PDF, 25 for the paper copy. The full 40k rule book was what 80? That's 3-4 GHBs for each 40k rulebook and the GHB is better for the game.


You are not really looking at over everything though. In the 2.0 years that AoS has been out you've had 14 battletomes at £25 each (approx), some for relatively pointless things like scenery etc (and are generally only for sub-factions). You've had a campaign series that totals £170. Then there is a core rulebook they have released (£45) and generals compendium. So if you want everything that's about £600 over the two years. Compare this to the assumption of a £50 rulebook and 12 Codexes/campaign styles of about £30 each then you are looking at £410. If you settle on just the core rules and the 40k compendium then yes it is more cost effective, but all these tomes do include special formations and rules etc. It's just the cost is drip fed more. There's now a larger proliferation in total rules in AoS than WFB ever had and the likelihood the same will happen in 40k. It's just that you don't need to use them all the time and the core rules are fairly basic at best.


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:27:02


Post by: warboss


Tsilber wrote:
I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...


I'm not sure how you would have come to this conclusion while at the same time hoping for a realistic change instead of just yet another minor tweak. The current rules environment in 40k is so bloated that it would make a Greater Daemon of Nurgle jealous. A clean slate is IMO the only hope for this game but it won't help if GW just keeps treading water in the muck pit of endless mandatory in all but name supplemental rules purchases. If they keep drip feeding formations (or whatever they'll call them) a few pages at a time in every book to every faction then it'll all be for nothing though. They need to return to a simple one rules plus one codex system for armies with anything beyond that updated to the core free rules but released as a truly optional deluxe full featured fluff purchase. If they update the rules every year, the core rules free pdf should be updated to reflect that; the same goes with the army codex and follow up formations. I'm not keeping my fingers crossed but it's at least theoretically possible since plenty of other companies do exactly that.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:28:02


Post by: ncshooter426


 Draccan wrote:

People seem to miss an important fact:
The promised free core rules, but full rules have to be purchased. Core rules probably doesn't get you far.
And more important, the codexes are going away and replaced with cheap ones, but no where does it state that army lists and rules will now be online for free.

So unless that happens and they haven't stated that yet, the usual codex regurgitation and bloat will continue on and on...


In AoS - core rules are free
Unit rules are on their warscrolls - which is also free. If a unit does something, it's spelled out there.

There are no super secret squirrel maneuvers that are outlined in a specific book that, if you didn't have it, would break the game. Codex will mirror AoS BT's -- it will be army background, a unique formation, and a reprint of the warscroll for the unit. You could argue that the unique formation would be advantageous reason for buying the book -- however I've yet to ever run across a GW store that says you have to have the book to run the formation. Just print the gak out as ref (so you oppt know whats up) and go play.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:28:27


Post by: Rippy


 Draccan wrote:
Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]

They are making them proper size. Just use your current ones instead if it bothers you that much.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:30:39


Post by: Kellevil


Im very happy about everything i read in the FAQ.

I also look forward to the 100 pages of crying and gnashing of teeth to come in this thread.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:31:13


Post by: NivlacSupreme


I'm probably going to start whatever army looks nicest in the starter box.

And keep going with my Death Guard.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:31:25


Post by: kodos


So what do we know by now?
From all the infos I get from the site I see this "facts"

- new Edi is about Nu-Marines VS Nurgle
- 3 Alliances, and "Factions" are those stuff with their own model range and rules
- Custodes, SoS and SoB are in
- 3 ways to play are Unbound without points, Scenario/Campaign without points and play with points
-30k will still use 7th edi rules
- free basic rules, and everything old is use able, the same we heard with AoS and now without the Handbook and the Battledome the game is crap

so lets hope that the free basic rules have a better quality than the free basic rules for AoS


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:31:26


Post by: ncshooter426


 Draccan wrote:
Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]



How in the feth do you make the leap from a picture that *all* the scale in 40K is changing?

Have you ever put 2nd edition model next to something current? Newsflash kiddo - the scale has been changing for years. Doesn't seem to stop anyone from buying and integrating things.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:32:24


Post by: flakpanzer


Are these large scale Marines the rumored next evolution of Marines that were mentioned some months back?

Didn't the rumor say that current Marines and the new Uber-Marines would be playable in the same army (regardless of how silly they might look side by side)?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:33:55


Post by: paqman




I can't beleive that the new administration and creative team actually have the balls to pull off something like that.
I've been hoping for a tabula rasa for more than a year (The time I stopped playing due to utter chaos of the rules eccosystem) and now its happening!

Thank you New Game Workshop!




Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:34:33


Post by: Necros


A little sad that the old codexes are gonna be invalid (just cuz I spent so much money on em), but everything else sounds good to me.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:35:24


Post by: kodos


 ncshooter426 wrote:

In AoS - core rules are free
Unit rules are on their warscrolls - which is also free. If a unit does something, it's spelled out there.

There are no super secret squirrel maneuvers that are outlined in a specific book that, if you didn't have it, would break the game.


without the Handbook and the Battledome you miss important parts of the game
there are no secret manoeuvres in the books, but a lot of special rules and an army playing with the special stuff from the BT is always superior than one just build of the free Scrolls

and without the Handbook we are talking about stuff like large modes cannot attack small models in melee because 1" weapon range makes them miss everything small


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:35:57


Post by: Morghot


 ncshooter426 wrote:
 Draccan wrote:
Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]



How in the feth do you make the leap from a picture that *all* the scale in 40K is changing?

Have you ever put 2nd edition model next to something current? Newsflash kiddo - the scale has been changing for years. Doesn't seem to stop anyone from buying and integrating things.

This , i have old marines and looks puppy next to the last. The world move up we cant pretend everythings remain the same through decades lol. and finally they seems right marine with mooooore better proportion than ever, love them


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:36:06


Post by: Whirlwind


Umbros wrote:

For AOS you don't need to buy anything except the models to play the game. Yes, the GHB has the points in it, but you can use Scroll Builder for points (free) and that will even be hosted on GW's site soon.

The rules are included in every single book (except KO for some reason) and are freely available. All models come with rules/are freely available.

To suggest that situation and 40k are remotely comparable is insane. Yes you can buy the campaign books and the battle tomes. But that is completely optional. Unlike 40k.

Invalidating codexes is a bit unfortunate, but given that they will be supplying free rules for all units that seems like a bit much to complain about.


It's more of a comparison if you want everything. The AoS books cost for everything is significantly more expensive than what 40k is at the moment. Yes you can get things free (including the points) apart from the models, but then that doesn't include formations and so on. GW are banking that enough people just go out and buy enough of the books anyway to offset that they are proving the rules for free. The actual cost per unit provided in the AoS books is a lot higher simply because there are relatively few units per book included.

Also I'm not sure I have read that the new rules for the units will be free anywhere yet? Just that the old units will be covered by a couple of books we will have to purchase?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:36:22


Post by: warboss


 ncshooter426 wrote:

These BT's are nothing more than background fluff, small painting guides, scenario and formations. The formations, and the actual scrolls, are available online. Anyone who wants to play one of the scenarios in a GW store just walks over and opens one of the books as needed, BT is not required. Most of the goodies come from the GHB these days anyway.


Then there is a core rulebook they have released (£45) and generals compendium.


Rulebook is also not required, and never really used. GHB is a whopping 25bones -- the cheapest printed doc you'll find - and it's actually USEFUL.


So all supplemental formations (the actual rules for factions/armies/whatever) are free online? That's not what was stated a few pages earlier when I asked about that. The answer was there are additional ways to buy the drip feed additions to your armies.

As for GHB being useful... I suppose the common reception to just how bad the core AOS army building rules were in random pick up game play sure helped in making a book that returned some semblance of common sense to the rules feel useful. That's not a high hurdle to jump over though.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:36:48


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


 flakpanzer wrote:
Are these large scale Marines the rumored next evolution of Marines that were mentioned some months back?

Didn't the rumor say that current Marines and the new Uber-Marines would be playable in the same army (regardless of how silly they might look side by side)?


I think it`ll be the same, as playing tactical marines and terminators in the same army.

@Necros can`t really change the rules, if all the codexes must stay.
Besides, that`s what happened every time a new codex came out.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:38:04


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


Love what I'm reading in the FAQ, and I actually hope they go all-out in Sigmar-fying 40k. 7e was an abomination that represented everything wrong with tabletop gaming, from overlong setup to rules bloat to needing a half dozen books per army.

I can't wait to see all the new army PDFs soon. I just hope the rules are more than 4 pages, though.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:39:04


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


Draccan wrote:
People seem to miss an important fact:
The promised free core rules, but full rules have to be purchased. Core rules probably doesn't get you far.
And more important, the codexes are going away and replaced with cheap ones, but no where does it state that army lists and rules will now be online for free.

So unless that happens and they haven't stated that yet, the usual codex regurgitation and bloat will continue on and on...
Free core rules gets you further than before. Before this, there was no way to play without buying a rulebook and a codex. Now, you can at least play with just a codex, which is apparently cheaper.

Again, it outright says the CORE rules will be online for free. That's more than before. It's better than any other edition change, where you'd ALSO need to buy a whole new codex and rulebook. Codexes are also cheaper, apparently, so at least the codex bloat will be cheaper than what it is now.

It's a straight upgrade, unless you didn't want 7th to change - in which case, stay in 7th.

Draccan wrote:Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]
You can still use your old models. They'll just be a bit shorter, but they are still Space Marines.

If you want old models and unit types, then this isn't a new problem. I can't get the same Assault Marines, Devastators or Tacticals as when I started - it's not new at all.

Tsilber wrote:
I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...
This has happened practically every edition. If the rules change, then of course they need to be redone.
If a move stat was added to the game, or weapons become fundamentally different (Rend mechanics) then it would be negligent not to redo them.

The game needs an overhaul, and if it's to be overhauled, the codexes would need to be modified to the new format. It's not new at all. Codexes had to be redone after 5th because of Hull Points and Psychic Powers becoming it's own phase. When were you in GW's corner - it must have been post-5th edition then, because all 5th codexes were incompatible after 6th.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:39:30


Post by: Daston


I am happy 30k is uneffected would be miffed that Inferno is obsolite after waiting for years!

I am happy 40k will be more streamlined I just hope they dont go down the route of fixed to hit and to wound rolls as that is easily the worst thing about AoS.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:41:12


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


Mitochondria wrote:The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.
It's my wallet, and I'll vote with it.
If I like what I see, then who is anyone to judge what I spend it on?

If you like or dislike it, vote with your wallet.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:41:50


Post by: Caederes


Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Cool. If you have nothing useful to contribute to this thread, get out.

I find it hilarious that pointing out the flaws in someone's insanely falsified pricing comparison makes one a fanboy white knight.



Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:42:05


Post by: The Shadow


Pistols at Dawn wrote:
 The Shadow wrote:
Oh God they're Sigmar-ifying it.

3 factions, 3 ways to play, making it "easier for new players to enter" (i.e. less depth to the rules), invalidating codices...

I'm going to need to be proved wrong and seriously impressed to continue in the hobby here. I'll be graduating soon and looking for jobs and my own place, and could do with a convenient excuse to not spend money on wargaming.


TBH, there's no real depth to 40k currently. All the choices are made in the list-building. When it comes down to it, despite the million special rules/formations, etc, when your minis are on the board your choices are 'Who do I shoot at/charge next?'.

Ok so, currently "who do I shoot at next" involves you taking into account several different saves; different types of weapons, and whether you moved them or not; whether you or the target is in combat; the armour save, AP, toughness and strength of various units which you need to take into account to judge which unit is best shot by which unit and numerous rules like Gets Hot, Pinning, Stealth, Ignores Cover. Under and AoS like system, your bolters will wound anything from a termagant to a carnifex on a 3+ and you can shoot at literally anything you can see and that's in range, regardless of combat (which is stupid) and regardless of whether you moved and what weapon you're carrying.

"Who do I charge next", you have to consider units that are in cover and the potential of hitting at I1; grenades; overwatch; how your shooting affects any charge you attempt; whether it would be better to run, do a jetpack move or whether you used your jump pack already this turn; multiple charges and their advantages and disadvantages and, again, multiple special rules like Hammer of Wrath, Furious Charge, Hit and Run. Under an AoS system you can charge whoever is in range regardless of moving/shooting and, apart from it being your turn and being able to activate a unit first, there's not really any advantage to getting the charge outside of select units.

Yes 40k is hardly the most in-depth game in existence, but I don't want it stooping to AoS' levels.

Lord Kragan wrote:
 The Shadow wrote:
Oh God they're Sigmar-ifying it.

3 factions, 3 ways to play, making it "easier for new players to enter" (i.e. less depth to the rules), invalidating codices...

I'm going to need to be proved wrong and seriously impressed to continue in the hobby here. I'll be graduating soon and looking for jobs and my own place, and could do with a convenient excuse to not spend money on wargaming.


What? Of course frigging not. Those are the classisfications we've always had: it's always been imperium, chaos and xenos, not actual formal factions.

So if I want to play Deathwatch I now have to buy a book for EVERY SINGLE imperial army and unit, and deal with having to lug that around or scroll through all the unnecessary pages. Codex: Deathwatch is a very slim, streamlined book, but no, now I would need to buy the equivalent of several codices to use them. And what's to distinguish them from any other imperial army? Gone are the individual background info, and, probably, army-wide special rules. We'll know have faction-wide rules and warlord traits. Until they release an over-expensive battletome for half an army that is.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:42:52


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha
It seems better than the other two editions. Free rules is a good start at least.
Nothing has changed, except that it appears to be cheaper, and more streamlined.

If that's a bad thing, then you don't need to take part in it. You may have fun on your own terms, and leave others to have theirs.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:43:38


Post by: Ohman


Pistols at Dawn wrote:
So these True-Scale chappies mean they'll have to re-do all the transports, bikes, assault marines, devastators, etc, etc to match up?


I'm curious about this myself. A complete upgrade of the marine-range seems unlikely, it's to big for that. So the new marines are probably a new unit rather than true-scale tacticals.

Except they don't really look "special" enough. They look exactly like true-scale tacticals and appear to be painted like that. So, yes I'm curious about what they really are and how they will impact the existing range.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:47:33


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha


Oh, I know you! You`re the FFG promoter dude Welcome! I hope you have a good time here, in a 40k thread proving to us, what idiots we are!

Anyway, I hope the New Starter is not just arines, but I might still be tempted, if minis are good: like the ones we`ve seen from Death Guard teaser (Assuming there are DG in th new strter box)

[Thumb - f73c9ad7.jpg]
[Thumb - a057f60e.jpg]
[Thumb - 41d6b14b.jpg]


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:47:39


Post by: His Master's Voice


They had me at

Come on! This is New Games Workshop™


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:48:35


Post by: DarkBlack


Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Will existing armies have the same "neigh like a pony for a reroll" rules that they put in the AoS rules?


Those have all been removed. Keep beating that dead horse though.

Pythagoras wrote:Another dumb reset button? That isn't what we needed. The current level of complexity wasn't complex. Just too many people who lack the will to put any effort into their hobby.


40k 7th edition is terrible, it desperately needs a reset. How cool Grimdark is (pretty sure this is why 40k is still popular, despite the terrible rules) isn't going to keep people interested forever.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:49:45


Post by: ERJAK


 Draccan wrote:
Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]


Your models from 20 years ago look like s**t. Your models from 4 years ago look like deformed midgets compared to deathwatch marines.

Tear that bandage off now.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:49:57


Post by: warboss


 ncshooter426 wrote:
You could argue that the unique formation would be advantageous reason for buying the book -- however I've yet to ever run across a GW store that says you have to have the book to run the formation. Just print the gak out as ref (so you oppt know whats up) and go play.


So if you're not buying the book, how are you to "just print the gak out as ref"? I don't think promoting piracy as the free GW in store rules option is the point.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:50:54


Post by: Caederes


 The Shadow wrote:

Ok so, currently "who do I shoot at next" involves you taking into account several different saves; different types of weapons, and whether you moved them or not; whether you or the target is in combat; the armour save, AP, toughness and strength of various units which you need to take into account to judge which unit is best shot by which unit and numerous rules like Gets Hot, Pinning, Stealth, Ignores Cover. Under and AoS like system, your bolters will wound anything from a termagant to a carnifex on a 3+ and you can shoot at literally anything you can see and that's in range, regardless of combat (which is stupid) and regardless of whether you moved and what weapon you're carrying.

"Who do I charge next", you have to consider units that are in cover and the potential of hitting at I1; grenades; overwatch; how your shooting affects any charge you attempt; whether it would be better to run, do a jetpack move or whether you used your jump pack already this turn; multiple charges and their advantages and disadvantages and, again, multiple special rules like Hammer of Wrath, Furious Charge, Hit and Run. Under an AoS system you can charge whoever is in range regardless of moving/shooting and, apart from it being your turn and being able to activate a unit first, there's not really any advantage to getting the charge outside of select units.

Yes 40k is hardly the most in-depth game in existence, but I don't want it stooping to AoS' levels.

So if I want to play Deathwatch I now have to buy a book for EVERY SINGLE imperial army and unit, and deal with having to lug that around or scroll through all the unnecessary pages. Codex: Deathwatch is a very slim, streamlined book, but no, now I would need to buy the equivalent of several codices to use them. And what's to distinguish them from any other imperial army? Gone are the individual background info, and, probably, army-wide special rules. We'll know have faction-wide rules and warlord traits. Until they release an over-expensive battletome for half an army that is.


I'm not going to argue over which game system has more depth but you are very clearly selling Age of Sigmar short. Don't believe me? Pay attention to high end play and you'll learn very quickly.

As to your second paragraph...what?
Why are you saying Deathwatch would be split up into different books when they are listed as their own faction on the new website?
Why are you saying you would need to now buy a book for "every single" Imperial army? Isn't that what the current situation is? You have to buy a book for Astra Militarum if you want to ally them to your Deathwatch (which you also have to buy a book for). That's CURRENT 40k. In what way would it be different now with the new system?
Why are you assuming the rules won't be free?
Why are you assuming there won't be an App that has all the rules for all the units on it, saving you the book-lugging that 40K GROSSLY suffers from which is NOT the case with Age of Sigmar?
Why would you need to buy several codices to use your Deathwatch army? The entire Khorne range is in one book. The entire Sylvaneth range is in one book. Hell, at the time of printing the entire Chaos range was in its own Grand Alliance book. What on earth are you going on about?
Why are you saying you'll need an over-expensive battletome just to get your faction wide rules, warlord traits, background, etc when YOU NEED TO BUY A CODEX IN 40K TO DO THE SAME THING!? Also, why are you saying the battletomes are over-expensive when they have oft been CHEAPER than the 40K codices?

You people honestly just confuse me and make me laugh.
Please, for the love of the Emperor, THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:51:58


Post by: Whirlwind


 Mymearan wrote:


Again, the campaign books don't have any content for Matched play. Only narrative scenarios and battalions without points cost. And there's is no "core rule book", what you're talking about is actually the first campaign book. So what you're actually looking at if you want all the Matched play content are the existing Battletomes for factions (12x £25 on average) and the Generals Handbook (£15). So that's £315. If you want to play one army like most players you're looking at £40.


This is the quote from the GW website.

Spoiler:
Continue the story of Sigmar’s strike against Chaos with this fantastic hardback book! Inside, you’ll find a huge selection of Battleplans - these are new ways to play Warhammer Age of Sigmar, scenarios that complement and add to the core ruleset to give you new and unique command abilities for your generals, differing victory conditions, objectives and goals for your armies to clash over and set-up/battlefield environment rules special to the story you’re recreating. The Age of Sigmar is a fraught and dangerous place, and the tales from the Realms are endless and exciting - this book throws you headfirst into the spectacular war of the Stormhosts, and adds depth, detail and insight into the struggles Sigmar and his alliances face.

Included are Warscrolls for the following featured forces - Stormcast Eternals, Khorne Bloodbound and Sylvaneth, and Warscroll Battalions which provide special abilities and conditions for groups of warriors.

This full-colour, hardback 264-page book also contains a treasure trove of stories from the Realms, incredible new artwork, gloriously photographed miniatures, colour schemes and heraldries - it’s a true must-have purchase for those who want to get the most out of their copy of Warhammer Age of Sigmar!"


This is not an argument of how you can play AoS or 40k and their comparison. If you want to compare minimalist cost comparisons then the comparisons have to be equal. People were comparing the costs overall of 40k for getting everything they need vs the minimalist AoS approach which is not balanced or reasonable.

The 40k rulebook provides both scenarios/background/rules combined. The AoS rules do not. You hence need to compare equally. That cost £50 or so. So to be fair comparison you also need to include the cost of the background and scenario information (which for the starter book is £45) if you just want to grab some models, plonk them on a table and roll some dice then yes it is cheaper books wise. But if you are interested in different scenarios/ and the background for the different factions (even if you don't want to play them) then you need to get all the books and that is vastly more expensive. So it depends on what you want from the game, whether it is just a wargame or a more encompassing hobby.



Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:52:26


Post by: NivlacSupreme


Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha


Oh, I know you! You`re the FFG promoter dude Welcome! I hope you have a good time here, in a 40k thread proving to us, what idiots we are!

Anyway, I hope the New Starter is not just arines, but I might still be tempted, if minis are good: like the ones we`ve seen from Death Guard teaser (Assuming there are DG in th new strter box)



Yeah, it really is a shame that GAMES WORKSHOP sucks at making games.

FFG does a better job.

Heading to a tournament today. Hopefully, I can steer somone onto the better path. Wish me luck.


No.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:52:51


Post by: ncshooter426


 warboss wrote:


So all supplemental formations (the actual rules for factions/armies/whatever) are free online? That's not what was stated a few pages earlier when I asked about that. The answer was there are additional ways to buy the drip feed additions to your armies.


Some formations are listed in the warscroll app from GW directly - free
There is one included in "Getting started" box - think GW has this one sitting on the site for each one also. I know my GW shop has all of these stacked up for ref
And usually a unique one in the book - The only one that isn't truely free I suppose, but easily accessible.

Warscroll builder has each one with their points value, and searching for the name yields the formation makeup. Battalions aren't required, but are useful (some of them anyway). In matched play they have a points cost associated with them, unlike 40k -- if you want the goodies it unlocks, you're going to pay for it.


As for GHB being useful... I suppose the common reception to just how bad the core AOS army building rules were in random pick up game play sure helped in making a book that returned some semblance of common sense to the rules feel useful. That's not a high hurdle to jump over though.


It's useful in the sense that yeah - it brought back points system - but it also expands on the scenarios in both open and narrative. Open play is still pretty fun though if you want to just throw models down and see who stomps who. Scenarios are where it's at for me -- hold the gate, kill the monster, king of the hill - a nice departure from just line-up-two-armies-and-fight methodology.

AoS w/o the GHB is still fine, but it's worth the paltry point of entry to get a book that's more than just fluff like most previous codexes.



Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:52:56


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


Mitochondria wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha
It seems better than the other two editions. Free rules is a good start at least.
Nothing has changed, except that it appears to be cheaper, and more streamlined.

If that's a bad thing, then you don't need to take part in it. You may have fun on your own terms, and leave others to have theirs.


Free rules means you will get to enjoy higher cost miniatures.
Got any evidence for that?

Do not full yourself for a minute, if you want to stay competitive and have any chance at winning you WILL buy those supplements again.
Have they mentioned anything about supplements? And I've not bought a supplement from GW in my life. I have no desire to play competitively - my idea of 40k is fun narrative play, and I think these rules will compliment that well.

Don't believe me? Try and take an AoS army built from the free rules up against someone using battletomes.
I'm actually working on doing exactly that with my Skaven from WHFB. I'll let you know how it goes, but from what I see, AoS seems pretty well balanced.

You are a white knight apologist if you think otherwise.
Again, I wasn't aware that pointing out the errors in people's pricing, and saying that "you do you" makes me a white knight. I think this discussion would go along a lot smoother without labelling people as such.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:53:17


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:53:39


Post by: Uriels_Flame


I'm pretty excited. Looks like they have really put a lot of effort into the redesign and we are finally moving forward.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:54:59


Post by: Caederes


 Whirlwind wrote:


This is the quote from the GW website.
This is not an argument of how you can play AoS or 40k and their comparison. If you want to compare minimalist cost comparisons then the comparisons have to be equal. People were comparing the costs overall of 40k for getting everything they need vs the minimalist AoS approach which is not balanced or reasonable.

The 40k rulebook provides both scenarios/background/rules combined. The AoS rules do not. You hence need to compare equally. That cost £50 or so. So to be fair comparison you also need to include the cost of the background and scenario information (which for the starter book is £45) if you just want to grab some models, plonk them on a table and roll some dice then yes it is cheaper books wise. But if you are interested in different scenarios/ and the background for the different factions (even if you don't want to play them) then you need to get all the books and that is vastly more expensive. So it depends on what you want from the game, whether it is just a wargame or a more encompassing hobby.



Oh for christ's sake, ALMOST NO-ONE WHO PLAYS MATCHED PLAY USES THE CAMPAIGN BOOKS. Formations from campaign books are usually ILLEGAL in Matched Play.

The APP gives you the CORE RULES for FREE. All you need then is the GENERAL'S HANDBOOK for the points and scenarios and your BATTLETOME for formations/traits. That is ALL you need.

How many freaking times do I have to correct people that know NOTHING about Age of Sigmar?

And before you even dare to say "but the scenarios in the campaign book..." NONE OF THEM ARE USED IN MATCHED PLAY. They are the exact same thing as Altar of War missions from supplements and campaign books found in 40K.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:55:03


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha


Oh, I know you! You`re the FFG promoter dude Welcome! I hope you have a good time here, in a 40k thread proving to us, what idiots we are!

Anyway, I hope the New Starter is not just arines, but I might still be tempted, if minis are good: like the ones we`ve seen from Death Guard teaser (Assuming there are DG in th new strter box)



Yeah, it really is a shame that GAMES WORKSHOP sucks at making games.

FFG does a better job.

Heading to a tournament today. Hopefully, I can steer somone onto the better path. Wish me luck.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure at this point you're trolling.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:55:13


Post by: ImAGeek


I'm very excited. Nothing here that I don't like the look/sound of really.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
They had me at

Come on! This is New Games Workshop™


Yup, I loved that!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:55:36


Post by: Mitochondria


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.


You are welcome!

Sincerely,

The New* Games Workshop


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:56:58


Post by: ncshooter426


 warboss wrote:
 ncshooter426 wrote:
You could argue that the unique formation would be advantageous reason for buying the book -- however I've yet to ever run across a GW store that says you have to have the book to run the formation. Just print the gak out as ref (so you oppt know whats up) and go play.


So if you're not buying the book, how are you to "just print the gak out as ref"? I don't think promoting piracy as the free GW in store rules option is the point.


Because the lions share of formations are in their own app. Or, walk over, open the book on the shelf and say "I think I'll try this, see how it works out". It's not complicated - it's a damn game.





Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:57:40


Post by: ERJAK


Mitochondria wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha
It seems better than the other two editions. Free rules is a good start at least.
Nothing has changed, except that it appears to be cheaper, and more streamlined.

If that's a bad thing, then you don't need to take part in it. You may have fun on your own terms, and leave others to have theirs.


Free rules means you will get to enjoy higher cost miniatures.

Do not full yourself for a minute, if you want to stay competitive and have any chance at winning you WILL buy those supplements again.

Don't believe me? Try and take an AoS army built from the free rules up against someone using battletomes.

You are a white knight apologist if you think otherwise.



Ending an argument with 'and if you don't agree with me you're a doody head!' is probably not the best way to make a point.

The miniatures in AoS are of comparable price, sometime cheaper, sometimes not but not radical overpriced anywhere(anymore at least). The free rules are totally valid and plenty of armies only need scrollbuilder.net to work(beast claw raiders/ANY non tzeentch chaos lists/Hell tomb kings don't even have a book). In fact, some battletomes are actively detrimental to their armies so no one has bought them. The battletomes are also cheaper, my last one was 20$ and if you don't care for the content you can just buy the 1-2 formations you like for 2-4$ total. Supplements after codexes haven't happened yet. Outside of campaign books which never have good rules in them.

(Side bar 7th has been out for 3 years, 6 lasted 2 so that's also wrong.)

You clearly have either a secondhand or misinformed knowledge of sigmar and using that to fear monger the new edition isn't likely to be the best use of your time.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:58:10


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


 ncshooter426 wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 ncshooter426 wrote:
You could argue that the unique formation would be advantageous reason for buying the book -- however I've yet to ever run across a GW store that says you have to have the book to run the formation. Just print the gak out as ref (so you oppt know whats up) and go play.


So if you're not buying the book, how are you to "just print the gak out as ref"? I don't think promoting piracy as the free GW in store rules option is the point.


Because the lions share of formations are in their own app. Or, walk over, open the book on the shelf and say "I think I'll try this, see how it works out". It's not complicated - it's a damn game.





Tell that to 7e.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:58:24


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.
Again, this is not new.
For reference, see:
2nd Edition.
3rd Edition
4th Edition
5th Edition
6th Edition
7th Edition
and all the various codexes that were made irrelevant with rule changes.


This is not a brand new revelation. What IS a new revelation is free core rules for 8th.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:58:26


Post by: Maréchal des Logis Walter


GG games workshop, thanks to three edition in as many years, not forgetting all codices and obviously supplements, you basically robbed several millions of people! Enjoy your daylight robbery!

Seriously, I'm glad i stuck with 6th anyway, otherwise i would have had to sell my house and family to follow up...

Let's hope they'll manage to change their behavor or at least produce something worthwhile.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:58:28


Post by: Whirlwind


Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:58:57


Post by: ncshooter426


Caederes wrote:

How many freaking times do I have to correct people that know NOTHING about Age of Sigmar?


Welcome to the party bro


Hey, don't know you know there is a rule that if you roll you have to hiss like a snek


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 14:59:51


Post by: Lord Kragan


Mitochondria wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha
It seems better than the other two editions. Free rules is a good start at least.
Nothing has changed, except that it appears to be cheaper, and more streamlined.

If that's a bad thing, then you don't need to take part in it. You may have fun on your own terms, and leave others to have theirs.


Don't believe me? Try and take an AoS army built from the free rules up against someone using battletomes.


HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Man, this strawman pops every so often and it cracks me up.

You know who won the first SCGT tournament for AoS? Rob Symes, he used no battletome because he went mixed alleigance. That same version of a list also won the first heat of the GT in february. You know the masters? Another free-rules army, a legacy one at that! Tomb kings are 100% in rules and are the strongest army in the meta alongside Mixed destruction, DoT (whose main source of power actually operates optimally even without the tome!), the Sayl-bomb, which requires no battletome again... the list goes on.

Adepticon's vanguard tournament on the morning was won by a stormcast army that barely made use of the factors of its battletome, too, using mainly just the units rules (like 99%) and tactics.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:00:43


Post by: kronk


 warboss wrote:
[
I'm totally calm.. I'm just not optimistic. There is a difference.


Fair enough.

I am not a fan of 6th or 7th edition, either. I like how AoS has ended up and look forward to General's Handbook style 40k. I am most excited about how FW will be included and curious if they also mean Horus Heresy.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:01:50


Post by: Not-not-kenny


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.


Ah, I take it you've never played Warhammer before, because if you had you'd probably know a bout how the editions change regularly which means you would have to buy new rulebooks and codexes as they updated, and that the scale of the models has kept changing over the years.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:01:51


Post by: ncshooter426


 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
GG games workshop, thanks to three edition in as many years, not forgetting all codices and obviously supplements, you basically robbed several millions of people! Enjoy your daylight robbery!

Seriously, I'm glad i stuck with 6th anyway, otherwise i would have had to sell my house and family to follow up...

Let's hope they'll manage to change their behavor or at least produce something worthwhile.



It's such a shame that you're being forced to play a new game, and that your old models and books spontaneously caught fire this morning. :(

This is the same mentality that makes developing new OS's fething impossible. "I REFUSE TO MOVE FROM XP BECAUSE I LIKE IT" -- Fine, then use it "OH NOEZ! I'VE BEEN HAXORED! MICRO$OFT SUX" ...sigh. I deal with that gak every god damn day.



Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:02:33


Post by: ERJAK


 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
GG games workshop, thanks to three edition in as many years, not forgetting all codices and obviously supplements, you basically robbed several millions of people! Enjoy your daylight robbery!

Seriously, I'm glad i stuck with 6th anyway, otherwise i would have had to sell my house and family to follow up...

Let's hope they'll manage to change their behavor or at least produce something worthwhile.


You're wrong in every word that you've said from the start of the post. Why waste your time writing this tripe? 7th by itself lasted 3 years, how many splatbooks and bestiaries and sh** has DnD invalidated over the years etc, etc ,etc, etc. Also 6 was exactly the same as 7th except...yunno...not as good.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:07:42


Post by: EmberlordofFire8


 Nicky J wrote:
 Destrado wrote:
Surprised this isn't posted yet...



posted this in the other thread that got shut off, but thought i'd post it again here;

that head looks a lot like some of the FW blood angels ones:
(wrong colour obviously tho)
EDIT: well looking at the side by side, they are not exactly the same - slashes/vents are in wrong direction, and they dont have the 'brow' that the pic has, probably more like the regular mkiv helms tbh



Im going with Alpha legion.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:07:55


Post by: casvalremdeikun


As long as all of my myriad factions remain valid and have cool ways to play, I will be happy. The fact that the Blood Angels page flat out says they favor jump packs and close combat has me very excited for them. If they return to the days of Jump Pack Troops, I will be very happy as that will differentiate them from my Crimson Fists quite a bit. I am really looking forward to what they do with Deathwatch, as they could really use a shot in the arm in terms of power. Hopefully everything I have assembled so far remains decently powered.

What I am really hoping for is for things like Chapter Tactics to exist, but be much more balanced. I want my Crimson Fists to be on level with White Scars and Iron Hands. Hopefully Pedro Kantor will still give me a reason to spam Sternguard as well.

All in all, I am excited for the reboot and look forward to the new rules for my armies and new rules. I am REALLY glad I decided against buying the Skitarii codex yesterday.

Who thinks that the allies matrix will remain in place the way it is? Or will the days of six different armies making one force be gone? I definitely want stuff like Tau running Culexus assassins to be gone.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:09:36


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.
Again, this is not new.
For reference, see:
2nd Edition.
3rd Edition
4th Edition
5th Edition
6th Edition
7th Edition
and all the various codexes that were made irrelevant with rule changes.


This is not a brand new revelation. What IS a new revelation is free core rules for 8th.


No, it says "new edition" so it must be new.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:09:39


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™


AHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

*falls off chair laughing*

Look guys! A Trademark Symbol!!! Even they're doing it now.

BYE™




Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:10:04


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:10:51


Post by: EmberlordofFire8


NO™! Come BACK!™


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:11:04


Post by: Carlovonsexron


The unhelmeted head there looks a bit like Peter Capaldi.

Who Marines confirmed!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*unhelmeted forgeworld blood angle heads*


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:11:41


Post by: ncshooter426


tl;dr: Frog in boiling water syndrome.


If you have played this game for any length of time, you have invested more money over the edition changes than you could possibly spend "updating" to 8th. You bleed slow, and thus didn't complain (well, you did - after every edition there is always anger yet people still spend $). You the band-aid gets ripped off now, and suddenly it's a personal assault on your vision of what 40K should be.


You cannot build upon ANY system over a span of time that does not deprecate a vast portion of it's previous infrastructure....unless you are the IRS (ie: Impossible but they refuse to admit it). In 40K terms, there was no way to integrate a drastic change of infrastructure with old rules -- unless they did it slowly over the course of 3-4 generations. NO ONE WANTED THAT. gak's broke. We all know it. Spending years slowly changing wasn't going to work - Incremental changes to a new core infrastructure are nearly impossible to implement without regressions.

Your "investment" in the hobby is irrelevant. Previous history does not predict future gains -- how something worked in the past doesn't mean that's how it will be in the future. You either accept, or you don't - either way, you have options.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:12:09


Post by: warboss


Caederes wrote:

The APP gives you the CORE RULES for FREE. All you need then is the GENERAL'S HANDBOOK for the points and scenarios and your BATTLETOME for formations/traits. That is ALL you need.

How many freaking times do I have to correct people that know NOTHING about Age of Sigmar?


Probably forever until something changes and it sounds better? I'd say it's an improvement over 6th/7th bloathammer 40k but your description is basically the equivalent of the core rulebook and codex so we're just back to 5th edition and the "free" part is a bit of an exaggeration in terms of what you need to buy/bring (whether physical or digital). What happens when GHB 2 comes out? And 3? And 4? It's apparently a yearly thing now so defeats the purpose after the first year. That's why I suggested the only real change that would be truly beneficial to the game and customers would be to update the core free rules (whether as a pdf or army building online program) with that annual content and offer it as a deluxe purchase option additionally.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:12:27


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Hi, thanks for your input!

Terribly sorry, that some of us (including myself) enjoy products by GW and are hopeful.
I hope you have a good weekend!


Hope is all you have because you are most certainly not getting quality gaming materials.

This will be the what...third new edition in four years? With new codexes and splat books every time?

Ha ha


Oh, I know you! You`re the FFG promoter dude Welcome! I hope you have a good time here, in a 40k thread proving to us, what idiots we are!

Anyway, I hope the New Starter is not just arines, but I might still be tempted, if minis are good: like the ones we`ve seen from Death Guard teaser (Assuming there are DG in th new strter box)



Yeah, it really is a shame that GAMES WORKSHOP sucks at making games.

FFG does a better job.

Heading to a tournament today. Hopefully, I can steer somone onto the better path. Wish me luck.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure at this point you're trolling.


"At this point"??!! You might want to check your detector for malfunctions, mine went nuts on his very first post.

I'm very optimistic about this release. It'll drag me back in after missing two editions of bloaty crap.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:13:02


Post by: ncshooter426


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™


AHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

*falls off chair laughing*

Look guys! A Trademark Symbol!!! Even they're doing it now.

BYE™




The stick has finally be removed from their collective asses


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:15:18


Post by: Melissia


The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:16:18


Post by: commander dante


*Sigh*
I REALLY dont know how to feel
Core Rules change? Ok, im fine with this
3 ways to play? (It could literally be summed up as Unbound, a Campaign list and Normal Play, so normal 40k)
Free Rules? A Suprise to be sure, but a welcome one
Removing existing books? Its both A. A welcome addition (I.E Remove Decurions) but B. A MASSIVE Slap in the face
3 Factions? Thats just dumb, keep each army dependent on an allies chart


But i feel GW is just going to slip into their old ways, and start making decurions in battletomes

Ill have a look at 8th, if i dont like it, ill play 30k...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:16:32


Post by: Caederes


@warboss

The thing is that unlike 40K you don't actually *need* the General's Handbook and a Battletome. You can play games with points thanks to the various army builder websites around which GW is actively encouraging, and all unit rules are free thanks to the app. Even if you do buy them, that's still better than 7th Edition 40K when you often need a supplement and possibly a FW or campaign book. Not to mention that some armies don't actually need their Battletome...you'd be surprised at how many Stormcast Eternal players skip the Battletome in favour of the Order Allegiance stuff they get from the Generals Handbook alone.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:17:24


Post by: vladicov


All I can say is.. RIP KDK. Fare thee well sweet prince.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:18:26


Post by: Dudeface


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.
Again, this is not new.
For reference, see:
2nd Edition.
3rd Edition
4th Edition
5th Edition
6th Edition
7th Edition
and all the various codexes that were made irrelevant with rule changes.


This is not a brand new revelation. What IS a new revelation is free core rules for 8th.


No, it says "new edition" so it must be new.


Does anyone expect to not buy any new books for a new edition? If you only want to use existing stuff with your existing rules then do that, it's daft to assume you'll get a new edition and new units with new rules etc. magically appear in your existing book.

Even if the new rules were 2 years away under the old release mantra, you'd expect to get a new codex for new toys.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:18:36


Post by: Minijack


So what I want to know is when is the "40k8th Age of Butthurt" fan project firing up?




Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:19:15


Post by: Whirlwind


Caederes wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:


This is the quote from the GW website.
This is not an argument of how you can play AoS or 40k and their comparison. If you want to compare minimalist cost comparisons then the comparisons have to be equal. People were comparing the costs overall of 40k for getting everything they need vs the minimalist AoS approach which is not balanced or reasonable.

The 40k rulebook provides both scenarios/background/rules combined. The AoS rules do not. You hence need to compare equally. That cost £50 or so. So to be fair comparison you also need to include the cost of the background and scenario information (which for the starter book is £45) if you just want to grab some models, plonk them on a table and roll some dice then yes it is cheaper books wise. But if you are interested in different scenarios/ and the background for the different factions (even if you don't want to play them) then you need to get all the books and that is vastly more expensive. So it depends on what you want from the game, whether it is just a wargame or a more encompassing hobby.



Oh for christ's sake, ALMOST NO-ONE WHO PLAYS MATCHED PLAY USES THE CAMPAIGN BOOKS. Formations from campaign books are usually ILLEGAL in Matched Play.

The APP gives you the CORE RULES for FREE. All you need then is the GENERAL'S HANDBOOK for the points and scenarios and your BATTLETOME for formations/traits. That is ALL you need.

How many freaking times do I have to correct people that know NOTHING about Age of Sigmar?

And before you even dare to say "but the scenarios in the campaign book..." NONE OF THEM ARE USED IN MATCHED PLAY. They are the exact same thing as Altar of War missions from supplements and campaign books found in 40K.


Erm... did you actually read what I said? Or are you just yelling because someone might be criticising GW? The quote you are referencing doesn't even mention matched play and formations as to whether they are illegal to use.

It's like you have focussed on matched play as the *only* way to play and that unless you want to be only competitive, ignoring background, different scenarios and so on then the rest doesn't matter. I have not once stated that if you want to go this 'minimalist' hobby route then it is not cheaper, but as I have previously stated that is not the only way to play and for some people much prefer a holistic wider gaming/hobby experience. Might I suggest that after such information passes through your visual cortex that you transfer such information to the neocortex rather than the archipallium in the future?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:19:42


Post by: Thommy H


The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:19:51


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure at this point you're trolling.


"At this point"??!! You might want to check your detector for malfunctions, mine went nuts on his very first post.

I'm very optimistic about this release. It'll drag me back in after missing two editions of bloaty crap.
Just being sure.
I've barely played much of 7th, so this will most likely pull me back in.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:19:55


Post by: Lord Kragan


Minijack wrote:
So what I want to know is when is the "40k8th Age of Butthurt" fan project firing up?



Send an email to the ninth-age. Maybe that way they'll stop the half-year long downfall of their forums.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:19:58


Post by: Caederes


 Melissia wrote:
The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.


Narrative play in Age of Sigmar is all player driven, it gives you a template to build up an army from a small warband (i.e. a single leader and two-three basic units) to a full on warhost based on your match results. I'm pretty sure it gives you character progression stuff but I might be wrong there. It gives you example battleplans but you're expected to make your own. It's pretty much tailor made for army builder challenges and is a nice simple system for those wanting to run campaigns.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:19:59


Post by: warboss


 ncshooter426 wrote:
The stick has finally be removed from their collective asses


If only to beat our wallets with over the next 5 years...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:21:59


Post by: Jambles


I actually called it! Three grand alliances, Imperium, Chaos, Xenos... TBF, maybe it's just for navigation purposes on the website, though? No clear indicator it's gonna be in the rules.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:22:02


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


Dudeface wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I would sincerely like to thank GW for the opportunity to rebuy the rules and to rebuy the army books again, so I can keep playing this great new game of theirs.

Also the chance to rebuy my army in lightly bigger true-scale versions of the same thing is an opportunity I relish getting to be able to take part in.

Thank you GW.
Again, this is not new.
For reference, see:
2nd Edition.
3rd Edition
4th Edition
5th Edition
6th Edition
7th Edition
and all the various codexes that were made irrelevant with rule changes.


This is not a brand new revelation. What IS a new revelation is free core rules for 8th.


No, it says "new edition" so it must be new.


Does anyone expect to not buy any new books for a new edition? If you only want to use existing stuff with your existing rules then do that, it's daft to assume you'll get a new edition and new units with new rules etc. magically appear in your existing book.

Even if the new rules were 2 years away under the old release mantra, you'd expect to get a new codex for new toys.


Read my post, I said I'm looking forward to buying it all again.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:24:49


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Melissia wrote:
The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.


A revamp like this is a perfect opportunity to remove the most legacy of legacy ranges, that being the Sisters of Battle. Remember they annihilated Bretonnia and the Tomb Kings. Your faction still exists. Be grateful.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:25:12


Post by: kronk


 Draccan wrote:
Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]


I have two words. Bull gak.

They have been steadily increasing for 20+ years. Where have you been?



Left to right:

1. Assault on Black Reach starter set (5th edition)
2. Space Marines vs Tyranid box set (3rd edition?)
3. Old metal marine (3rd edition)
4. Death Watch Marine (7th edition)
5. Space Marines vs Tyranid box set (3rd edition?)
6. Dark Vengeance Chaos Marine (7th edition)

Which one is the right and proper scale that is being "invalidated"? 3rd edition was invalidated with the 4th edition Tactical Squad box. That was "invalidated" with Death Watch. And so on.

Further:



Which Rhino is the proper scale?

There is much to complain about, I suppose. But this complaint is the silliest. The marines have not been steady state for 20 years, they have been INCREASING STEADILY for 20 years.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:25:24


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Jambles wrote:
I actually called it! Three grand alliances, Imperium, Chaos, Xenos... TBF, maybe it's just for navigation purposes on the website, though? No clear indicator it's gonna be in the rules.


It's for ease of navigation...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:26:07


Post by: paqman


Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.

Keep giving them your money and time, suckers.


Ho yeah mama! Opening the money barage soon


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:26:45


Post by: Caederes


 Whirlwind wrote:


Erm... did you actually read what I said? Or are you just yelling because someone might be criticising GW? The quote you are referencing doesn't even mention matched play and formations as to whether they are illegal to use.

It's like you have focussed on matched play as the *only* way to play and that unless you want to be only competitive, ignoring background, different scenarios and so on then the rest doesn't matter. I have not once stated that if you want to go this 'minimalist' hobby route then it is not cheaper, but as I have previously stated that is not the only way to play and for some people much prefer a holistic wider gaming/hobby experience. Might I suggest that after such information passes through your visual cortex that you transfer such information to the neocortex rather than the archipallium in the future?


I'm going off your earlier posts and that one, so you can consider it an overall response to the points you were making in this thread.

Which were false anyway. It costs way more to cover everything in Warhammer 40,000 when you account for all the FW books.

And yes, I know what you're talking about with background narrative stuff. Guess what? That's in the Battletome for the army you buy. You don't need an AoS campaign book any more than you need a 40K campaign book.

You also wrote this:

"If you settle on just the core rules and the 40k compendium then yes it is more cost effective, but all these tomes do include special formations and rules etc. It's just the cost is drip fed more. There's now a larger proliferation in total rules in AoS than WFB ever had and the likelihood the same will happen in 40k. It's just that you don't need to use them all the time and the core rules are fairly basic at best."

The cost is not drip fed more. To play a Stormcast Eternals army in Matched Play, you need the Battletome and the Generals Handbook. You cannot buy anything else to add on to a pure Stormcast Eternal army, all you have access to for Matched Play is in those two books. To play a World Eaters army, you need the Chaos Space Marine Codex, the Traitor Legion codex and the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. You can get optional - and crucial - rules support from Imperial Armor 13 and other sources like Imperial Armor: Apocalypse.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:30:01


Post by: amazingturtles


Thommy H wrote:
The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.


Can do!

*falls backwards out of frame like an old-timey comic character*


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:30:05


Post by: warboss


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
The only thing that bothers me about this is "narrative play", which sounds like code for "marinewank" the way GW writes their narratives these days. Otherwise 8th is looking good so far.


A revamp like this is a perfect opportunity to remove the most legacy of legacy ranges, that being the Sisters of Battle. Remember they annihilated Bretonnia and the Tomb Kings. Your faction still exists. Be grateful.


Or Bell Cawl turns his attention to his other 10,000 year old side project (diversifying the marine genome to accept a wider range of humans) and SOB are folded into their own space marine chapters to make femstartes just like some fans have wanted for decades (and others have abhored for equally as long).


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:30:17


Post by: Whirlwind


Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.


That's an unreasonable comparison. You are comparing 4-6 years (when was the last version released?) worth of material to less than two years of material for AoS. I did a rough tally of the costs over the *same* timescale and AoS is roughly 50% more expensive if you are into the background/campaign style of things.

As I've pointed out multiple times if the hobby for you is just rolling lots of dice and trying to smash the opponent with ultra combo then yes it can be cheaper, but if it is more than that then the cost is questionable. However there seems to be argument that 40k is really expensive with all the books etc but AoS style will be really cheap is a completely unrealistic comparison because you need to compare equally what you get across both regimes.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:31:06


Post by: Stevefamine


This just means I sit on unbuilt units and hold my breath until the next edition comes out


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:31:08


Post by: SeanDrake


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
 warboss wrote:
What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n.


About fething time and good riddance to 6th/7th style books. Hopefully the idea of formations that dole out free bonuses and models as long as you spend $$$ is gone for good.


Not even close, have you looked at AoS? There's bi-yearly codexs, yearly GHB, campaign books out the wazoo and all with formations with minimal point costs.

All current armies should be ok if you don't want to buy stuff as they will get rules at launch and then left to rot.

But at least unlike with whfb we will still have a game for older players in 30k.


Oh you mean that game with tri-yearly codexes, campaign books out the wazoo and rights of war that give wildly different power-levels of bonuses for free, all while costing between 2-5 time more per model than 40k? Models THAT MELT IN THE SUN btw.
30k is nice if you have infinite money and wear a fedora in the shower but it's not as good as sigmar for normal gamers.


Good to know you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. About the only thing you got right was the price cost and MAYBE the melting bit if you leave your models in a car in the sun at midday in the middle of summer while living in a tropical or sub-tropical region...


Or a reasonably warm English summers day. Finecast was a shoddy product foisted on the fanbase by a company aiming to extract money from the foolish. "Crisp" money.

8th edition has an air of the same thing, but people will dutifully queue up to buy, and then moan about, it.


Nah Ejak has a bad case of FW envy and was refering incorrectly about FW resin. As for the price in some cases FW are cheaper than GW, besides who really has more money to burn the person paying £40 for inferior mass produced plastics or paying £50 for a similar unit in nice crisp resin.





Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:32:29


Post by: ncshooter426


Thommy H wrote:
The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.



This. So much this.


I need to literally see tears here people! Come on!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:33:29


Post by: kronk


 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
GG games workshop, thanks to three edition in as many years,


3 in six years, but don't let facts ruin a good rant.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:34:43


Post by: Uriels_Flame


Starter box fall along the lines of the new pic?

Marines v New Plague Marines?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:34:48


Post by: RiTides


Well, I'm intrigued. Here's hoping they got it right!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:34:59


Post by: Draccan


 kronk wrote:
 Draccan wrote:
Oh and changing 40k scale is a dealbreaker in my book...
Sure you can play with your old miniatures, but what happens when you want new unit types and new models?

Changing the scale to invalidate 20+ years of space marine models is just............... [no words]


I have two words. Bull gak.

They have been steadily increasing for 20+ years. Where have you been?



Left to right:

1. Assault on Black Reach starter set (5th edition)
2. Space Marines vs Tyranid box set (3rd edition?)
3. Old metal marine (3rd edition)
4. Death Watch Marine (7th edition)
5. Space Marines vs Tyranid box set (3rd edition?)
6. Dark Vengeance Chaos Marine (7th edition)

Which one is the right and proper scale that is being "invalidated"? 3rd edition was invalidated with the 4th edition Tactical Squad box. That was "invalidated" with Death Watch. And so on.

Further:



Which Rhino is the proper scale?

There is much to complain about, I suppose. But this complaint is the silliest. The marines have not been steady state for 20 years, they have been INCREASING STEADILY for 20 years.


I agree that scale has been creeping up for years. That doesn't make it okay to give it a considerable notch up. You can't go to new "true scale" and expect vehicles not to change once again. With the amount of models produced and in people's possession by now it is a huge deal. Now if you just have static armies that is not a problem, but when new vehicles and units are needed or even whole new ones produced only in the true scale it undermines people's collections.

There is a huge difference between adding new scale upgrades to skirmish armies where people had 20-40 marines and a vehicle or two or three. Now many people have much larger arrays of vehicles and models and to change the scale on them is just ................................. [insert your favorite expletive here]


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:35:10


Post by: Caederes


 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.


That's an unreasonable comparison. You are comparing 4-6 years (when was the last version released?) worth of material to less than two years of material for AoS. I did a rough tally of the costs over the *same* timescale and AoS is roughly 50% more expensive if you are into the background/campaign style of things.

As I've pointed out multiple times if the hobby for you is just rolling lots of dice and trying to smash the opponent with ultra combo then yes it can be cheaper, but if it is more than that then the cost is questionable. However there seems to be argument that 40k is really expensive with all the books etc but AoS style will be really cheap is a completely unrealistic comparison because you need to compare equally what you get across both regimes.


Ok, my apologies as I was confusing you with someone on another forum I'm currently posting on. My bad.
However...

You *did* say that the rules are drip fed more which is categorically false as any Chaos Space Marine player will tell you.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:35:25


Post by: SeanDrake


 Kanluwen wrote:
Tsilber wrote:
I was in their corner for years, supported them for year. Making all current codexs non-compatible just breaks it for me.


Cmon GW, i thought you learned your lesson by now...

Were you around for the Age of Sigmar launch?

They made the books non-compatible, but had "get you by" lists ready at launch.



Would those be the get you by lists that 93% of armies are still using 2 years later?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:35:30


Post by: EmberlordofFire8


I cant wait to demonstrate the new DS rules. Maybe I'll offer to deep strike my friends pesky void raven...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:35:36


Post by: Jambles


 ncshooter426 wrote:
Thommy H wrote:
The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.



This. So much this.


I need to literally see tears here people! Come on!

I believe in Dakka!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:36:16


Post by: ListenToMeWarriors


Am interested to see how the latest edition goes....I do not believe that the sky is falling in but am aware that it is a possibility.

So the waiting game starts, I just hope it is more easily accessible and simpler to play with more internal balance. We shall see.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:36:28


Post by: Mr Morden


 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.


That's an unreasonable comparison. You are comparing 4-6 years (when was the last version released?) worth of material to less than two years of material for AoS. I did a rough tally of the costs over the *same* timescale and AoS is roughly 50% more expensive if you are into the background/campaign style of things.

As I've pointed out multiple times if the hobby for you is just rolling lots of dice and trying to smash the opponent with ultra combo then yes it can be cheaper, but if it is more than that then the cost is questionable. However there seems to be argument that 40k is really expensive with all the books etc but AoS style will be really cheap is a completely unrealistic comparison because you need to compare equally what you get across both regimes.


Depends massively on the Codex - there is only one Deathwatch Codex btu some have been released in quick succession like Codex Knights - others are complete trash - Guard, Dark Eldar, Orks. Why should those players have to wait another year or moer to have crap or wiat that long before the (over) power dexes are reworked.

There is a possibility that with all the army ruels coming out at the same time they might be vaguely balanced, If they had used the same crappy codexes that churned out over the last few years then there would have been zero possibility of a proper reset.

I used to collect the Codexes for the fluff and background but this has been increasingly diluted even as prices climbed. Hopefully I can now focuss on campaign books if the basic army books are covered cheaply


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:38:43


Post by: Draccan


 kronk wrote:
 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
GG games workshop, thanks to three edition in as many years,


3 in six years, but don't let facts ruin a good rant.


I think a new edition is welcome as I bailed on 7th. before it was even out. I think it is really needed. As long as the relaunch is the right one. As long as they get rid of the same old diseases of churning out supplement after supplement with rules that people need.
That said; GW shouldn't come with three editions in three years. We aren't just talking about replacing a book or two. Many people will have had a dozen book for each edition. I can understand the frustration even though I didn't jump on the 7th. train...

BTW. GW only promised free core rules, not army lists. Everyone assumes there will be AoS free army lists but they didn't say that. They said CHEAP not free army lists. So the paper mill will probably continue to churn and churn....


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:39:27


Post by: JohnnyHell


Only 8 pages of whining and speculating over exactly what the Mk IV armour half-and-half loyal/Chaos marine is other than just that?

C'maaaan guys, you're slipping.



Having spent several games trying to play 7th, I for one welcome a ground-up rewrite. Rebuying army books is naughty, mind, unless they mean free rules for all a la AOS launch then Battletome-esque Codex books going forward. Meh. Regardless, a reset was sorely needed.

Now, to echo others online and get into the spirit of the thread... FIX MY TYRANIDS.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:40:47


Post by: EmberlordofFire8


 Jambles wrote:
 ncshooter426 wrote:
Thommy H wrote:
The important thing is that we all freak out as much as possible now.



This. So much this.


I need to literally see tears here people! Come on!

I believe in Dakka!


I did a little "eighth edition dance" when I saw the Warhammer community page..


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:41:31


Post by: SeanDrake


The small amount of truscale fanatics are a god send to GW as there going to let them invalidate there best ever selling range while saying it is what people wanted.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:42:47


Post by: Melissia


 warboss wrote:
Or Bell Cawl turns his attention to his other 10,000 year old side project (diversifying the marine genome to accept a wider range of humans) and SOB are folded into their own space marine chapters to make femstartes just like some fans have wanted for decades (and others have abhored for equally as long).
Oh that's what HBMC said to me. I had him on ignore.

I would be simultaneously furious and laughing my ass off if that femstartes event happened tho.
Caederes wrote:
Narrative play in Age of Sigmar is all player driven, it gives you a template to build up an army from a small warband (i.e. a single leader and two-three basic units) to a full on warhost based on your match results. I'm pretty sure it gives you character progression stuff but I might be wrong there. It gives you example battleplans but you're expected to make your own. It's pretty much tailor made for army builder challenges and is a nice simple system for those wanting to run campaigns.

If that's all it is, fine, but GW's "campaigns" and narrative battles so far have been very marine-centric (assault on black reach, battle for macragge, and shadow war: armageddon all come to mind here), and I don't see much of a reason why this would be much different...


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:45:28


Post by: Draccan


SeanDrake wrote:
The small amount of truscale fanatics are a god send to GW as there going to let them invalidate there best ever selling range while saying it is what people wanted.


Let's face it: Who here hasn't dreamt of getting a new scale for your marines, rhinos, terminators, motorbikes, assault bikes, predators, land raiders and hell even drop pods?

Not to mention the joy of seeing this creep into 30k. I am sure all the people buying those cheap, discounted 30k armies will rejoice in a new scale....


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:45:51


Post by: ncshooter426


I got to say... Dark Eldar narrative play will be....interesting.

Do I score one extra VP if I bring my own BDSM gear to the store?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:45:52


Post by: SeanDrake


 Mr Morden wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.


That's an unreasonable comparison. You are comparing 4-6 years (when was the last version released?) worth of material to less than two years of material for AoS. I did a rough tally of the costs over the *same* timescale and AoS is roughly 50% more expensive if you are into the background/campaign style of things.

As I've pointed out multiple times if the hobby for you is just rolling lots of dice and trying to smash the opponent with ultra combo then yes it can be cheaper, but if it is more than that then the cost is questionable. However there seems to be argument that 40k is really expensive with all the books etc but AoS style will be really cheap is a completely unrealistic comparison because you need to compare equally what you get across both regimes.


Depends massively on the Codex - there is only one Deathwatch Codex btu some have been released in quick succession like Codex Knights - others are complete trash - Guard, Dark Eldar, Orks. Why should those players have to wait another year or moer to have crap or wiat that long before the (over) power dexes are reworked.

There is a possibility that with all the army ruels coming out at the same time they might be vaguely balanced, If they had used the same crappy codexes that churned out over the last few years then there would have been zero possibility of a proper reset.

I used to collect the Codexes for the fluff and background but this has been increasingly diluted even as prices climbed. Hopefully I can now focuss on campaign books if the basic army books are covered cheaply


Except that if they follow AoS then the only sure balance will be old armies are trash against new releases/armies.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:46:16


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Looks like I will be building tanks, drop pods, and dreadnoughts for the foreseeable future. And terrain. But I don't want to get screwed over by good options in 7th becoming bad options in 8th.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:48:55


Post by: ImAGeek


SeanDrake wrote:
Spoiler:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.


That's an unreasonable comparison. You are comparing 4-6 years (when was the last version released?) worth of material to less than two years of material for AoS. I did a rough tally of the costs over the *same* timescale and AoS is roughly 50% more expensive if you are into the background/campaign style of things.

As I've pointed out multiple times if the hobby for you is just rolling lots of dice and trying to smash the opponent with ultra combo then yes it can be cheaper, but if it is more than that then the cost is questionable. However there seems to be argument that 40k is really expensive with all the books etc but AoS style will be really cheap is a completely unrealistic comparison because you need to compare equally what you get across both regimes.


Depends massively on the Codex - there is only one Deathwatch Codex btu some have been released in quick succession like Codex Knights - others are complete trash - Guard, Dark Eldar, Orks. Why should those players have to wait another year or moer to have crap or wiat that long before the (over) power dexes are reworked.

There is a possibility that with all the army ruels coming out at the same time they might be vaguely balanced, If they had used the same crappy codexes that churned out over the last few years then there would have been zero possibility of a proper reset.

I used to collect the Codexes for the fluff and background but this has been increasingly diluted even as prices climbed. Hopefully I can now focuss on campaign books if the basic army books are covered cheaply


Except that if they follow AoS then the only sure balance will be old armies are trash against new releases/armies.


I'm pretty sure that's not true. Tomb Kings and Skaven are both really strong.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:50:11


Post by: The Shadow


My comments in red.

Caederes wrote:

As to your second paragraph...what?
Why are you saying Deathwatch would be split up into different books when they are listed as their own faction on the new website?

I'm not saying Deathwatch specifically would have this treatment - in fact I'm pretty sure they wouldn't because they're a relatively small faction - but I'm rather pointing out AoS' tendancy to split the traditional armies into several battletomes, e.g. Flesh Eater Courts. So if I wanted to play a Vampire Counts army like I could back before AoS, I'd have to buy several battletomes.

Why are you saying you would need to now buy a book for "every single" Imperial army? Isn't that what the current situation is? You have to buy a book for Astra Militarum if you want to ally them to your Deathwatch (which you also have to buy a book for). That's CURRENT 40k. In what way would it be different now with the new system?

Because if this new 40k is anything like AoS - and it looks like it - then there will be a single book for "Imperium" which will contain all the traditional imperial armies, Deathwatch, Astra Militarium, Blood Angels etc etc. So even though I may only be interested in the Deathwatch stuff, I still have to buy this massive book with all the armies and info I don't want.

Why are you assuming the rules won't be free?
Why are you assuming there won't be an App that has all the rules for all the units on it, saving you the book-lugging that 40K GROSSLY suffers from which is NOT the case with Age of Sigmar?

You're right, there probably will be an app. But if I go on my AoS app now I have under "my units", or whatever it's called, the entry for every single unit I'm likely to use in an AoS game, so it's very time consuming to find the different ones I'm using in any particular game. And yes I know you can print the basic rules out because they're free etc, but you still have to buy the better formations from the battletomes. It may be a minor gripe but to me there was nothing wrong with the codex system, especially the ones that made it to paperback so why fix it?

Why would you need to buy several codices to use your Deathwatch army? The entire Khorne range is in one book. The entire Sylvaneth range is in one book. Hell, at the time of printing the entire Chaos range was in its own Grand Alliance book. What on earth are you going on about?

See above for my clarification on buying several codices to use a Deathwatch army. It's also perhaps a bad example being a relatively small army. Orks are a much better example. If this turns out to be similar to AoS, it's not unlikely that there'll be a Speed Freeks Battletome (containing only stuff on bikes or in transports), a Bad Moonz Battletome (containing only meganobz, 'eavy armoured boyz, flash gitz) etc etc. If I want to use my entire ork army, or even just cherry pick certain units, I will likely have to buy several battletomes. And before you say I can use the free rules, the free rules are not going to be as powerful. Not a huge deal for some, but I personally feel I'm getting shafted.

And that's exactly my point. The entire Sylvaneth range IS in one book. But Sylvaneth aren't the entire traditional range. The old Wood Elf army book had loads more units that aren't included in the Sylvaneth book. If I had a Wood Elf army from pre-AoS and wanted to use it all in a game, I now need separate books.


Why are you saying you'll need an over-expensive battletome just to get your faction wide rules, warlord traits, background, etc when YOU NEED TO BUY A CODEX IN 40K TO DO THE SAME THING!? Also, why are you saying the battletomes are over-expensive when they have oft been CHEAPER than the 40K codices?

Yes but my point, as I've stated multiple times now, is that I now have to buy a battletome containing all units in that FACTION rather than the army. So yes, in 40k I needed, for example, my Ork Codex, but at least that Codex doesn't contain the entry for every single other xenos unit that I'm never going to use. And at least that Ork codex contains Ork-specific rules rather than just Xenos-specific rules, making the army much more tasteful and enjoyable. I could be proved wrong on that last point, but I think the army-specific rules and warlord traits won't be making a re-appearance until the battletomes start coming out

You people honestly just confuse me and make me laugh.
Please, for the love of the Emperor, THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:51:45


Post by: kronk


 Draccan wrote:


I agree that scale has been creeping up for years. That doesn't make it okay to give it a considerable notch up. You can't go to new "true scale" and expect vehicles not to change once again. With the amount of models produced and in people's possession by now it is a huge deal. Now if you just have static armies that is not a problem, but when new vehicles and units are needed or even whole new ones produced only in the true scale it undermines people's collections.

There is a huge difference between adding new scale upgrades to skirmish armies where people had 20-40 marines and a vehicle or two or three. Now many people have much larger arrays of vehicles and models and to change the scale on them is just ................................. [insert your favorite expletive here]


If you prefered the 5th edition SM sizes, I can respect that. I prefer the newer 7th edition sizes, though. I don't think they're terribly taller than the 5th edition ones.

I think we can all agree that, nostalgia aside, 3rd edition marines suck!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:51:46


Post by: Caederes


SeanDrake wrote:


Except that if they follow AoS then the only sure balance will be old armies are trash against new releases/armies.


Tomb Kings and Skaven are THE best solo factions in Matched Play, no Battletomes required (I'm dead serious too, Clan Pestilens isn't even a consideration in top Skaven lists). I dunno what you're on about.



Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:51:59


Post by: Azreal13


Mitochondria wrote:
The GW fanboy white knights are out in force today.


Hi, we've not been introduced!

My track record with matters GW is available for anyone to see in my post history, or feel free to ask around amongst some of the more regular posters for a brief summary.

I heartily endorse this move, its the best thing to happen to 40K in years, and I'm now revising my position from "wouldn't play 40K if you paid me" to "optimistic to try out the new rules."

If you'd like to try and call me a "white knight" then come at me.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:52:31


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


And how many people buy ALL battletomes? You generally have 1, 2 or 3 armies per player so again it's.

The fact that you mention Mighty Battles in the Age of Sigmar just goes to show how little you know, same going for the realmgate wars, which are fore the campaigns, narrative play, not actual matches play rules.


How many people buy all the Codexes or Army books?

It's more lack of understanding of what I am trying to say. I never once mentioned only matched play, that's your driver for a game. I'm looking at it from a much wider perspective. I'm less interested in playing just straight up equal match ups compared to having a wider hobby experience, so the campaigns etc and knowing the background and the story. If you want that to be included in your hobby then you need all the background books/campaign books and so on. Not everyone just plays/enjoys the game simply for showing how easily they can smash their opponent...


And not everyone is eager to know everything...

And those players that do will be happy to pay less. Deathwatch is one of the cheapest books and it costs 33 euros. AoS cheapest book? 20 euros, and there's quite a few of those. Currently all material for AoS is 650 euros, which is far less in pounds. And trust me, 40k almost doubles the cost in material currently.


That's an unreasonable comparison. You are comparing 4-6 years (when was the last version released?) worth of material to less than two years of material for AoS. I did a rough tally of the costs over the *same* timescale and AoS is roughly 50% more expensive if you are into the background/campaign style of things.

As I've pointed out multiple times if the hobby for you is just rolling lots of dice and trying to smash the opponent with ultra combo then yes it can be cheaper, but if it is more than that then the cost is questionable. However there seems to be argument that 40k is really expensive with all the books etc but AoS style will be really cheap is a completely unrealistic comparison because you need to compare equally what you get across both regimes.


So your argument is that you did the math wrong and/or didn't check google?

Warhammer 7th edition was published on may of 2014 (3 years). Since then ALL its publications, counting all books and the BRB, have been 1750 euros which is an average of 583 euros per year at, generally, the lowest cost possible.
Age of sigmar was released on July of 2015 (1.75 years). Since then ALL its publications, counting all books GHB and the namesake book, have amounted to 688.5 (forgot one book). That's 393,43 euros per year.

Age of Sigmar is 33% cheaper.

Please try again with a REAL argument.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:54:36


Post by: Morghot


Why whine about these new marine they are only the same marine a bit bigger and well proportion, through years it happens manytimes, no sense at all.

If they were super different and much bigger i understand but it's not like this lol and we don't know exactly what they are yet maybe they are only a sort of new kind of marine.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:55:03


Post by: Eumerin


 ImAGeek wrote:


I'm pretty sure that's not true. Tomb Kings and Skaven are both really strong.


Which is particularly amusing, since the Tomb Kings are one of the lines that they cancelled.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:56:42


Post by: doghouse


SeanDrake wrote:
The small amount of truscale fanatics are a god send to GW as there going to let them invalidate there best ever selling range while saying it is what people wanted.


That's utter nonsense!

These are not "truescale" marines, they are a new unit.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 15:56:46


Post by: ncshooter426


 Azreal13 wrote:

If you'd like to try and call me a "white knight" then come at me.


White Knight!



I make my charge


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:01:02


Post by: Lord Kragan


My comments in blue.

 The Shadow wrote:
My comments in red.

Caederes wrote:

As to your second paragraph...what?
Why are you saying Deathwatch would be split up into different books when they are listed as their own faction on the new website?

I'm not saying Deathwatch specifically would have this treatment - in fact I'm pretty sure they wouldn't because they're a relatively small faction - but I'm rather pointing out AoS' tendancy to split the traditional armies into several battletomes, e.g. Flesh Eater Courts. So if I wanted to play a Vampire Counts army like I could back before AoS, I'd have to buy several battletomes.

No you'd not. You'd just buy GHB and play generic death (because VC is half o that army), also. Splitting armies? You've heard of DoT and blades of khorne, haven't you? Those did the opposite while being cheaper than ANY 40k rulebook (20 and 25 euros).

Why are you saying you would need to now buy a book for "every single" Imperial army? Isn't that what the current situation is? You have to buy a book for Astra Militarum if you want to ally them to your Deathwatch (which you also have to buy a book for). That's CURRENT 40k. In what way would it be different now with the new system?

Because if this new 40k is anything like AoS - and it looks like it - then there will be a single book for "Imperium" which will contain all the traditional imperial armies, Deathwatch, Astra Militarium, Blood Angels etc etc. So even though I may only be interested in the Deathwatch stuff, I still have to buy this massive book with all the armies and info I don't want.

Why are you assuming the rules won't be free?
Why are you assuming there won't be an App that has all the rules for all the units on it, saving you the book-lugging that 40K GROSSLY suffers from which is NOT the case with Age of Sigmar?

You're right, there probably will be an app. But if I go on my AoS app now I have under "my units", or whatever it's called, the entry for every single unit I'm likely to use in an AoS game, so it's very time consuming to find the different ones I'm using in any particular game. And yes I know you can print the basic rules out because they're free etc, but you still have to buy the better formations from the battletomes. It may be a minor gripe but to me there was nothing wrong with the codex system, especially the ones that made it to paperback so why fix it?

Curiously enough, many of the top lists don't work on battallions.

Why would you need to buy several codices to use your Deathwatch army? The entire Khorne range is in one book. The entire Sylvaneth range is in one book. Hell, at the time of printing the entire Chaos range was in its own Grand Alliance book. What on earth are you going on about?

See above for my clarification on buying several codices to use a Deathwatch army. It's also perhaps a bad example being a relatively small army. Orks are a much better example. If this turns out to be similar to AoS, it's not unlikely that there'll be a Speed Freeks Battletome (containing only stuff on bikes or in transports), a Bad Moonz Battletome (containing only meganobz, 'eavy armoured boyz, flash gitz) etc etc. If I want to use my entire ork army, or even just cherry pick certain units, I will likely have to buy several battletomes. And before you say I can use the free rules, the free rules are not going to be as powerful. Not a huge deal for some, but I personally feel I'm getting shafted.

[color=blue] If it's going to be like AoS, you'll do fine with using just one battletome or just using the free rules.


And that's exactly my point. The entire Sylvaneth range IS in one book. But Sylvaneth aren't the entire traditional range. The old Wood Elf army book had loads more units that aren't included in the Sylvaneth book. If I had a Wood Elf army from pre-AoS and wanted to use it all in a game, I now need separate books. [/color]

Why are you saying you'll need an over-expensive battletome just to get your faction wide rules, warlord traits, background, etc when YOU NEED TO BUY A CODEX IN 40K TO DO THE SAME THING!? Also, why are you saying the battletomes are over-expensive when they have oft been CHEAPER than the 40K codices?

Yes but my point, as I've stated multiple times now, is that I now have to buy a battletome containing all units in that FACTION rather than the army. So yes, in 40k I needed, for example, my Ork Codex, but at least that Codex doesn't contain the entry for every single other xenos unit that I'm never going to use. And at least that Ork codex contains Ork-specific rules rather than just Xenos-specific rules, making the army much more tasteful and enjoyable. I could be proved wrong on that last point, but I think the army-specific rules and warlord traits won't be making a re-appearance until the battletomes start coming out

You people honestly just confuse me and make me laugh.
Please, for the love of the Emperor, THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:04:37


Post by: Youn


Well, this is good news.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:06:29


Post by: tyrannosaurus


Wait, does this mean that there will be Grand Alliances, so Tyranids/Necrons/Eldar marching of to war together? I'm out.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:06:45


Post by: Caederes


 The Shadow wrote:
My comments in red.

Caederes wrote:

As to your second paragraph...what?
Why are you saying Deathwatch would be split up into different books when they are listed as their own faction on the new website?

I'm not saying Deathwatch specifically would have this treatment - in fact I'm pretty sure they wouldn't because they're a relatively small faction - but I'm rather pointing out AoS' tendancy to split the traditional armies into several battletomes, e.g. Flesh Eater Courts. So if I wanted to play a Vampire Counts army like I could back before AoS, I'd have to buy several battletomes.

Why are you saying you would need to now buy a book for "every single" Imperial army? Isn't that what the current situation is? You have to buy a book for Astra Militarum if you want to ally them to your Deathwatch (which you also have to buy a book for). That's CURRENT 40k. In what way would it be different now with the new system?

Because if this new 40k is anything like AoS - and it looks like it - then there will be a single book for "Imperium" which will contain all the traditional imperial armies, Deathwatch, Astra Militarium, Blood Angels etc etc. So even though I may only be interested in the Deathwatch stuff, I still have to buy this massive book with all the armies and info I don't want.

Why are you assuming the rules won't be free?
Why are you assuming there won't be an App that has all the rules for all the units on it, saving you the book-lugging that 40K GROSSLY suffers from which is NOT the case with Age of Sigmar?

You're right, there probably will be an app. But if I go on my AoS app now I have under "my units", or whatever it's called, the entry for every single unit I'm likely to use in an AoS game, so it's very time consuming to find the different ones I'm using in any particular game. And yes I know you can print the basic rules out because they're free etc, but you still have to buy the better formations from the battletomes. It may be a minor gripe but to me there was nothing wrong with the codex system, especially the ones that made it to paperback so why fix it?

Why would you need to buy several codices to use your Deathwatch army? The entire Khorne range is in one book. The entire Sylvaneth range is in one book. Hell, at the time of printing the entire Chaos range was in its own Grand Alliance book. What on earth are you going on about?

See above for my clarification on buying several codices to use a Deathwatch army. It's also perhaps a bad example being a relatively small army. Orks are a much better example. If this turns out to be similar to AoS, it's not unlikely that there'll be a Speed Freeks Battletome (containing only stuff on bikes or in transports), a Bad Moonz Battletome (containing only meganobz, 'eavy armoured boyz, flash gitz) etc etc. If I want to use my entire ork army, or even just cherry pick certain units, I will likely have to buy several battletomes. And before you say I can use the free rules, the free rules are not going to be as powerful. Not a huge deal for some, but I personally feel I'm getting shafted.

And that's exactly my point. The entire Sylvaneth range IS in one book. But Sylvaneth aren't the entire traditional range. The old Wood Elf army book had loads more units that aren't included in the Sylvaneth book. If I had a Wood Elf army from pre-AoS and wanted to use it all in a game, I now need separate books.


Why are you saying you'll need an over-expensive battletome just to get your faction wide rules, warlord traits, background, etc when YOU NEED TO BUY A CODEX IN 40K TO DO THE SAME THING!? Also, why are you saying the battletomes are over-expensive when they have oft been CHEAPER than the 40K codices?

Yes but my point, as I've stated multiple times now, is that I now have to buy a battletome containing all units in that FACTION rather than the army. So yes, in 40k I needed, for example, my Ork Codex, but at least that Codex doesn't contain the entry for every single other xenos unit that I'm never going to use. And at least that Ork codex contains Ork-specific rules rather than just Xenos-specific rules, making the army much more tasteful and enjoyable. I could be proved wrong on that last point, but I think the army-specific rules and warlord traits won't be making a re-appearance until the battletomes start coming out

You people honestly just confuse me and make me laugh.
Please, for the love of the Emperor, THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE.


Please look at the Faction list on the Warhammer 40,000 website. Do you see any factions that didn't already exist in the game other than Death Guard? Are Deathwatch still there? They aren't completely resetting the lore, unlike Age of Sigmar. There's no reason to believe they will split any particular current faction up into more sub-factions.

Here's a truth bomb. Grand Alliance: Chaos and Grand Alliance: Order cost $56 AUD. Codex: Space Marines costs $90 AUD. It's cheaper to get the book that covers ALL the armies than it is to get the one focused specifically on one faction. Besides, if you just want Deathwatch stuff, the eventual "Battletome" will likely cost the same or less as the current codex.

The App has numerous filters and a Search function to find exactly what you need. Additionally, once you've got your army list written up, there's a function that lets you add the units you will use to a separate section - mind you, this is part of the free App and doesn't require the subscription version. That function means you can open the app and the only units you will see are the ones you need for that particular army list you are using. Phone/tablet functionality permitting, I've found it to be less cumbersome than flicking through a book to find the right pages that could be spread apart; it just takes a minute or two of work pre-game to set-up and your golden once the game starts where time actually does become precious.

Again, you're failing to understand that this is not a transition from Warhammer Fantasy to Age of Sigmar. This is a transition from Warhammer 40,000 to Warhammer 40,000. It's a new edition, not a new game system. The chances of them splitting up a faction like Orks are much smaller than it would have been for the Warhammer Fantasy factions because they don't need to pull new narrative out of their backsides to justify why certain units are together. Mind you, I'm not saying it's impossible they will do this for Orks, I just don't see it as being very likely.

Sylvaneth is realistically the best example of what you're trying to say. They are an army that gets more out of their Battletome than the Generals Handbook which is surprisingly rare in AoS (all the Destruction armies tend to skip their Battletome in favour of the GHB for instance) and an army that is supposed to operate independent of others. However, most other armies? The Generals Handbook is all you need because their own Allegiance abilities/relics/etc - if any - generally aren't worth taking over the generic grand alliance ones.

Also, as Lord Kragan pointed out, you get literally *everything* for a Tzeentch or Khorne army in a single book with Disciples of Tzeentch and Blades of Khorne respectively. When I say everything I mean *everything*. Points, formations, artefacts, traits, allegiance abilities, key warscrolls, etc.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:07:06


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Can't tell what the next generation of marines' scale is, but... eh... I'm actually more aware of trouble with bits compatibility than looking weird next to each other. I've had a few years to rebuild my collection, and won't be buying several kits to have a nice variety.

As someone who doesn't play CSM, the new edition timing sucks a lot for those who just saw the first nice book for their army in a few editions, and I think it's rude to have dropped a substantial single army expansion that right before a new edition. Not as bad as their AOS giant set of books, but still poor form, and anyone who's been jeering at them is, IMHO at best a cynic drinking the corporate kool aid.

As an astral claws fan, slight optimism that FW might finally make a version of Tyrant's Legion that isn't flat out terrible. Probably not.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:08:17


Post by: Morghot


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Wait, does this mean that there will be Grand Alliances, so Tyranids/Necrons/Eldar marching of to war together?.

No


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:09:24


Post by: Whirlwind


Caederes wrote:


I'm going off your earlier posts and that one, so you can consider it an overall response to the points you were making in this thread.

Which were false anyway. It costs way more to cover everything in Warhammer 40,000 when you account for all the FW books.


Jeez, then you really should read the posts in more detail. I have *never* said that to buy everything 40k related is cheaper than AoS, that's plainly ridiculous because 40k has been around much longer than AoS. What I did was *compare* the approximate costs of AoS to 40k over a two year period since AoS was released (and to be fair that's generous on AoS because it has been less than two years). Forgeworld have what released one/two books maybe in this period. That still makes 40k cheaper overall when comparing on a timeline basis.

And yes, I know what you're talking about with background narrative stuff. Guess what? That's in the Battletome for the army you buy. You don't need an AoS campaign book any more than you need a 40K campaign book.


But you would do if you wanted to play a campaign would you not and know about the background. I'll point out again for the god knows how many number of times. This is about comparing *like for like* not picking and choosing the element and then pointing out you don't need the rest

The cost is not drip fed more. To play a Stormcast Eternals army in Matched Play, you need the Battletome and the Generals Handbook. You cannot buy anything else to add on to a pure Stormcast Eternal army, all you have access to for Matched Play is in those two books. To play a World Eaters army, you need the Chaos Space Marine Codex, the Traitor Legion codex and the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. You can get optional - and crucial - rules support from Imperial Armor 13 and other sources like Imperial Armor: Apocalypse.


Yet you are completely ignoring that over these two years if you had been playing Sigmaries then there would have been three books released + the GH each one with a handful of units, hence over that time you have been drip fed the rules for them. With the Chaos Space Marines you are also unreasonably trying to select a weak army and saying this is what you need to play a game when in reality all you need to play a World Eaters Army is the rulebook and the 40k book. Whether that is an effective army is an entirely different question. This is not about picking an army to make a comparison because that is biased by the army being selected. Therefore you have to look holistically over the same time interval to come to a cost per month/year etc that provides the equal and equivalent experience.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:10:51


Post by: Mr Morden


 Melissia wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Or Bell Cawl turns his attention to his other 10,000 year old side project (diversifying the marine genome to accept a wider range of humans) and SOB are folded into their own space marine chapters to make femstartes just like some fans have wanted for decades (and others have abhored for equally as long).
Oh that's what HBMC said to me. I had him on ignore.

I would be simultaneously furious and laughing my ass off if that femstartes event happened tho.
Caederes wrote:
Narrative play in Age of Sigmar is all player driven, it gives you a template to build up an army from a small warband (i.e. a single leader and two-three basic units) to a full on warhost based on your match results. I'm pretty sure it gives you character progression stuff but I might be wrong there. It gives you example battleplans but you're expected to make your own. It's pretty much tailor made for army builder challenges and is a nice simple system for those wanting to run campaigns.

If that's all it is, fine, but GW's "campaigns" and narrative battles so far have been very marine-centric (assault on black reach, battle for macragge, and shadow war: armageddon all come to mind here), and I don't see much of a reason why this would be much different...


The Narrative in Shield Of Baal had tons of Sisters stuff - where they absolutely kicked ass, had new artwork and lore - sadly the rules writters could not be bothered or were told not to translate this into actual rules.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:17:32


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Whirlwind wrote:
Caederes wrote:


I'm going off your earlier posts and that one, so you can consider it an overall response to the points you were making in this thread.

Which were false anyway. It costs way more to cover everything in Warhammer 40,000 when you account for all the FW books.


Jeez, then you really should read the posts in more detail. I have *never* said that to buy everything 40k related is cheaper than AoS, that's plainly ridiculous because 40k has been around much longer than AoS. What I did was *compare* the approximate costs of AoS to 40k over a two year period since AoS was released (and to be fair that's generous on AoS because it has been less than two years). Forgeworld have what released one/two books maybe in this period. That still makes 40k cheaper overall when comparing on a timeline basis.

And yes, I know what you're talking about with background narrative stuff. Guess what? That's in the Battletome for the army you buy. You don't need an AoS campaign book any more than you need a 40K campaign book.


But you would do if you wanted to play a campaign would you not and know about the background. I'll point out again for the god knows how many number of times. This is about comparing *like for like* not picking and choosing the element and then pointing out you don't need the rest

The cost is not drip fed more. To play a Stormcast Eternals army in Matched Play, you need the Battletome and the Generals Handbook. You cannot buy anything else to add on to a pure Stormcast Eternal army, all you have access to for Matched Play is in those two books. To play a World Eaters army, you need the Chaos Space Marine Codex, the Traitor Legion codex and the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. You can get optional - and crucial - rules support from Imperial Armor 13 and other sources like Imperial Armor: Apocalypse.


Yet you are completely ignoring that over these two years if you had been playing Sigmaries then there would have been three books released + the GH each one with a handful of units, hence over that time you have been drip fed the rules for them. With the Chaos Space Marines you are also unreasonably trying to select a weak army and saying this is what you need to play a game when in reality all you need to play a World Eaters Army is the rulebook and the 40k book. Whether that is an effective army is an entirely different question. This is not about picking an army to make a comparison because that is biased by the army being selected. Therefore you have to look holistically over the same time interval to come to a cost per month/year etc that provides the equal and equivalent experience.


No, what you did was a poor comparison, you compared a timeframe where the bulk of AoS releases happened (around 20+) while 40k was more or less stagnant in releases (14 publications: 3 sets of 2 campaign books-Damocles, Fenris, Traitor's hate- 2 codexii, 3 supplements and a 3-book campaign).

Stormcasts got a third book to solve the issue. SCE MK II costs 25 euros and covers the other two books (and more). It wasn't meant to drip-feed rules, but to solve the drip-feeding.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:20:12


Post by: MaxT


 doghouse wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
The small amount of truscale fanatics are a god send to GW as there going to let them invalidate there best ever selling range while saying it is what people wanted.


That's utter nonsense!

These are not "truescale" marines, they are a new unit.


Source on that? Because they look like Tactical marines to me


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:21:58


Post by: Mitochondria


 RiTides wrote:
Well, I'm intrigued. Here's hoping they got it right!



Yes...here's hoping that they finally got it right after twenty plus years and eight editions.

Hint: They did not get it right.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:22:09


Post by: Genoside07


Maybe Shadow War Armageddon was the olive branch trying to be nice before kicking us in the gut.

It does sound a lot like AoS and it changed scale with the chaos right out of the gate.. now we have
huge models compared to old.. And you still can use the models from the abandoned armies..
Tomb Kings, Britonnia and Empire ..RIP


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:23:54


Post by: Azreal13


 ncshooter426 wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:

If you'd like to try and call me a "white knight" then come at me.


White Knight!



I make my charge


Sadly you died to my overwatch.

Good game!


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:24:03


Post by: Melissia


 Mr Morden wrote:
The Narrative in Shield Of Baal had tons of Sisters stuff - where they absolutely kicked ass, had new artwork and lore - sadly the rules writters could not be bothered or were told not to translate this into actual rules.
ANd yet this is par for the course here. Which is why I'm being wary about it.

Rest of it the release thus far looks good though.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:24:50


Post by: Alpharius


Having mostly skipped out on 40K for all of 6th and 7th, I'm cautiously optimistic here - and while I can sympathize with anyone who has bought a lot of army books for these editions, it really does feel as if 40K needs a hard reset.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:25:08


Post by: SeanDrake


I just hope it is as "succesfull" as AoS was straight away at launch.

Mind not sure GW could afford that


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:28:16


Post by: Caederes


 Whirlwind wrote:
Jeez, then you really should read the posts in more detail. I have *never* said that to buy everything 40k related is cheaper than AoS, that's plainly ridiculous because 40k has been around much longer than AoS. What I did was *compare* the approximate costs of AoS to 40k over a two year period since AoS was released (and to be fair that's generous on AoS because it has been less than two years). Forgeworld have what released one/two books maybe in this period. That still makes 40k cheaper overall when comparing on a timeline basis.

But you would do if you wanted to play a campaign would you not and know about the background. I'll point out again for the god knows how many number of times. This is about comparing *like for like* not picking and choosing the element and then pointing out you don't need the rest

Yet you are completely ignoring that over these two years if you had been playing Sigmaries then there would have been three books released + the GH each one with a handful of units, hence over that time you have been drip fed the rules for them. With the Chaos Space Marines you are also unreasonably trying to select a weak army and saying this is what you need to play a game when in reality all you need to play a World Eaters Army is the rulebook and the 40k book. Whether that is an effective army is an entirely different question. This is not about picking an army to make a comparison because that is biased by the army being selected. Therefore you have to look holistically over the same time interval to come to a cost per month/year etc that provides the equal and equivalent experience.


Lord Kragan emphatically proves your first and second paragraphs wrong anyway so your point isn't even valid. Ergo, we shouldn't even be having this discussion anymore

Erm. Here's the thing. Rules-wise....you've got it wrong. The original Stormcast Eternals Battletome and the Stormcast Extremis Battletome had essentially nothing that would make them worthwhile for Matched Play. Rules-wise, they only come with warscrolls. No Command Traits/Artefacts/Allegiance Abilities/etc. Just formations and warscrolls. Pre-Matched Play, there was no real reason to buy them other than for narrative. Now, the *new* Stormcast Eternal Battletome? Command Traits. Artefacts. Allegiance Abilities. I could go on but...neither of the first two Stormcast Battletomes were seen as proper gaming accessories. That's why all Sylvaneth and post Sylvaneth battletomes include things like Allegiance Abilities and the like and numerous formations rather than a token few so that they are actually worth getting for those interested in gaming.

Now, I think it obviously sucks if you bought the original one/two Battletomes which were pretty much invalidated by the new one, but....they haven't done that for any other army, and the original two weren't designed for gamers, they were for those looking for fluff/painting inspiration. So, if we're still talking about gamers here - which this particular paragraph is - then no, it's not really a valid concern because people didn't buy those two books for rules.

When it comes to 40K, yeah, you could say I'm cherry picking World Eaters. What you're ignoring though is that, like I said, ALL the rules you could possibly need for Stormcasts are in their Battletome, and the Generals Handbook is essentially the core rulebook because it has the Matched Play scenarios in it. If you want ALL the rules for World Eaters, you NEED the Chaos Marine codex, the Traitor Legion supplement and the rulebook at absolute minimum, and the list becomes bigger if you add in the Forge World book. If you want to run Ynnari Craftworld Eldar - and no, I don't mean a combined Aeldari force, I mean Craftworld Eldar alone using Ynnari rules - you need Codex: Craftworld Eldar, Fracture of Biel Tan and the 40K rulebook. There's also a Forge World book called Doom of Mymaera that I should probably mention...

So no, it's not at all the same. I can walk into a store and buy one Battletome and the Generals Handbook for Stormcasts and that is literally all I need book-wise to play every single possible permutation of Stormcast Eternals in Matched Play. I don't need to worry about buying other books because I want to add in a specific unit for the Stormcast faction, it's all in the one book. It's the same thing for Sylvaneth. I'm spending less to get everything I could need than I would if I was playing 40K. Fact.






Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:28:36


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


It good to see how this new edition has really brought the community together in joyous expectation.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:28:37


Post by: tyrannosaurus


Morghot wrote:
 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Wait, does this mean that there will be Grand Alliances, so Tyranids/Necrons/Eldar marching of to war together?.

No


Care to explain? AFAIK the way it works in AoS is that an army is selected from all of the units available to a particular Grand Alliance.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:29:08


Post by: davou


 Genoside07 wrote:
Maybe Shadow War Armageddon was the olive branch trying to be nice before kicking us in the gut.


free rules, new models, updated books for all the armies at once, listening to the community... Yeah, they sure twisted the knife


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:30:39


Post by: Imateria


MaxT wrote:
 doghouse wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
The small amount of truscale fanatics are a god send to GW as there going to let them invalidate there best ever selling range while saying it is what people wanted.


That's utter nonsense!

These are not "truescale" marines, they are a new unit.


Source on that? Because they look like Tactical marines to me

Hastings original rumour for them a couple months ago now.

I'm surprised at all the complaints about the "truescale marines", I thought it had already been made very clear that it's going to be a new unit/faction.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:32:18


Post by: ImAGeek


SeanDrake wrote:
I just hope it is as "succesfull" as AoS was straight away at launch.

Mind not sure GW could afford that


Well they seem to have all the things that have since made AoS much more successful built in at launch.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:33:35


Post by: Caederes


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Morghot wrote:
 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Wait, does this mean that there will be Grand Alliances, so Tyranids/Necrons/Eldar marching of to war together?.

No


Care to explain? AFAIK the way it works in AoS is that an army is selected from all of the units available to a particular Grand Alliance.


It's incredibly likely 40K won't follow that design. The races are grouped under Imperium/Chaos/Xenos then split into sub-factions basically just to reduce clutter. I'd assume there will be levels of alliance within the sub-factions, as I can't see them all of a sudden letting you run Tyranid units alongside Necron or Aeldari units with no penalty. Mind you, if they actually do that - and it *is* possible - I won't be happy.

Keep in mind that Warhammer Fantasy didn't really use proper ally rules for traditional games back in 8th Edition, the rules were there but they weren't really intended or even used for solo play. They released the combined factions in the End Times as a prelude to the Grand Alliances but that's about it. Of course, they've been doing the same thing with the Gathering Storm books, but 40K actually has a full allies system which I can't see them fully scrapping. The lore reset for Age of Sigmar lets them justify combining any of the various Destruction armies together, but they can't use that excuse in 40K with the established lore.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:35:41


Post by: Imateria


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Morghot wrote:
 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Wait, does this mean that there will be Grand Alliances, so Tyranids/Necrons/Eldar marching of to war together?.

No


Care to explain? AFAIK the way it works in AoS is that an army is selected from all of the units available to a particular Grand Alliance.

Actually you can pick models from any faction in the game, but the way abilities work means that you are far better off going mono faction so they all work together and getting the alliance benefit on top.

However, so far absolutely nobody has suggested this is what is going to happen for 40K beyond a few fear mongers on here who saw the new website navigation set up, put 2 and 2 together and got 4000.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:35:44


Post by: Bottle


I'm really excited for the new edition. I hope there's a really low barrier to entry rules-wise like there is in AoS. I've only spent £15 on AoS rules (I run a mixed Order army for matched play), so hopefully it won't be too much more for 40K.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:36:16


Post by: Whirlwind


Lord Kragan wrote:


Warhammer 7th edition was published on may of 2014 (3 years). Since then ALL its publications, counting all books and the BRB, have been 1750 euros which is an average of 583 euros per year at, generally, the lowest cost possible.
Age of sigmar was released on July of 2015 (1.75 years). Since then ALL its publications, counting all books GHB and the namesake book, have amounted to 688.5 (forgot one book). That's 393,43 euros per year.

Age of Sigmar is 33% cheaper.

Please try again with a REAL argument.


Tut, tut you are being naughty and comparing unequal things.. not a great method Firstly I compared approx. two years. The year before Kirby left was well known for the stinging price increases. You should only compare periods that are equivalent otherwise you are artificially biasing your selection to argue your case (I could simply include the last 25 years of 40k supplements and compare that to 1.75 years of AoS for example). AoS didn't have any sales pre -June 2015. To be more fair you'd have to include the costs for WFB in the same time period, but then even this is wonky because it is a completely different game/sales strategy then. Also I have a strong suspicion you are probably picking and choosing things to fit an argument. Simple maths shows me that you are that the average cost per book equates to about £50 per month on average (and lets assume 50% of these months were WFB/AoS focussed) then that's equivalent to each month £100 worth of rulebooks/campaign books/codexes every time GW releases a supplement which is way over what I would expect. My suspicion is that you are including non-comparable things here (especially if you are including FW), but as you've not listed the things that's difficult to ascertain.

So I very much doubt your argument.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:38:14


Post by: JohnnyHell


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Wait, does this mean that there will be Grand Alliances, so Tyranids/Necrons/Eldar marching of to war together? I'm out.


No. Conclusion: jumped to.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:39:30


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Indeed.

Plus, you can do that anyway with Allies rules. So nowt new even if you can.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:40:36


Post by: MaxT


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Wait, does this mean that there will be Grand Alliances, so Tyranids/Necrons/Eldar marching of to war together? I'm out.


Thats was and is fine in the current ruleset. It's called unbound.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:40:56


Post by: tyrannosaurus


 Imateria wrote:

Actually you can pick models from any faction in the game, but the way abilities work means that you are far better off going mono faction so they all work together and getting the alliance benefit on top.

However, so far absolutely nobody has suggested this is what is going to happen for 40K beyond a few fear mongers on here who saw the new website navigation set up, put 2 and 2 together and got 4000.


Wait, you can pick models from any faction in the game in AoS? Bahahaha, it's worse than I thought! It may be jumping to conclusions but it certainly is a strange way to group the different armies that is very reminiscent of Grand Alliances.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:43:39


Post by: JohnnyHell


No, it isn't. Loyalist human-y variants, Chaos human-y variants, aliens. As a basic grouping it's super logical and non-odd.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:43:40


Post by: Bottle


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
 Imateria wrote:

Actually you can pick models from any faction in the game, but the way abilities work means that you are far better off going mono faction so they all work together and getting the alliance benefit on top.

However, so far absolutely nobody has suggested this is what is going to happen for 40K beyond a few fear mongers on here who saw the new website navigation set up, put 2 and 2 together and got 4000.


Wait, you can pick models from any faction in the game in AoS? Bahahaha, it's worse than I thought! It may be jumping to conclusions but it certainly is a strange way to group the different armies that is very reminiscent of Grand Alliances.


No, in Matched Play all armies have to be from the same Grand alliance (GHB p.106)


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:44:36


Post by: SickSix


Excited.

So are they going to discount all current books?





LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLL


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:45:52


Post by: rollawaythestone


Massively excited. I'm glad they had the courage to break the Codex cycle and start fresh. There is no other way to achieve more reasonable balance between factions than design them all together in parallel. It's a painful bandaid to pull as we all have new books that won't be used for rules, but it's a potentially awesome step if it leads to more balance between armies.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:47:34


Post by: Carnikang


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
 Imateria wrote:

Actually you can pick models from any faction in the game, but the way abilities work means that you are far better off going mono faction so they all work together and getting the alliance benefit on top.

However, so far absolutely nobody has suggested this is what is going to happen for 40K beyond a few fear mongers on here who saw the new website navigation set up, put 2 and 2 together and got 4000.


Wait, you can pick models from any faction in the game in AoS? Bahahaha, it's worse than I thought! It may be jumping to conclusions but it certainly is a strange way to group the different armies that is very reminiscent of Grand Alliances.


It's the same in Unbound play for 40k. Then again, that's ONLY Open Play.

When you get into Campaign and Matched play, it tends to adhere to Grand Alliances.

On that note, they're not going to do that with 40K, as the Xenos are far too varied to allow for it.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:47:59


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


Warhammer 7th edition was published on may of 2014 (3 years). Since then ALL its publications, counting all books and the BRB, have been 1750 euros which is an average of 583 euros per year at, generally, the lowest cost possible.
Age of sigmar was released on July of 2015 (1.75 years). Since then ALL its publications, counting all books GHB and the namesake book, have amounted to 688.5 (forgot one book). That's 393,43 euros per year.

Age of Sigmar is 33% cheaper.

Please try again with a REAL argument.


Tut, tut you are being naughty and comparing unequal things.. not a great method Firstly I compared approx. two years. The year before Kirby left was well known for the stinging price increases. You should only compare periods that are equivalent otherwise you are artificially biasing your selection to argue your case (I could simply include the last 25 years of 40k supplements and compare that to 1.75 years of AoS for example). AoS didn't have any sales pre -June 2015. To be more fair you'd have to include the costs for WFB in the same time period, but then even this is wonky because it is a completely different game/sales strategy then. Also I have a strong suspicion you are probably picking and choosing things to fit an argument. Simple maths shows me that you are that the average cost per book equates to about £50 per month on average (and lets assume 50% of these months were WFB/AoS focussed) then that's equivalent to each month £100 worth of rulebooks/campaign books/codexes every time GW releases a supplement which is way over what I would expect. My suspicion is that you are including non-comparable things here (especially if you are including FW), but as you've not listed the things that's difficult to ascertain.

So I very much doubt your argument.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

Of course you could compare 25 years vs 2. IF you made the yearly average like I did and based my argument on. Which is why also I spoke of July where there were sales of AoS already.

And no, I didn't include forgeworld, which would make the balance even worse.

And I'm working on euros, by the way, I think stating it multiple times would have made it obvious.

But you seem to be using some strong mental gymnastics to convince yourself of your argument, since you seem to equate 25+ books as equals to 14 publications.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:50:51


Post by: streetsamurai


So far, there is nothing to dislike as current 40k turned into a joke with all the formations and additional rules. Unfortunately, I don't really have trust in the current rule writers and I expect a ridiculously shallow and boring game a la AOS (which is pretty much the checkers of wargaming, no matter what 3 or 4 delusionned fans spew). After all, while I really like SWA, it is pretty much a direct copy of Necromunda. The only difference is the campaign rules: they are terrible, and really shows the mentality of the design studio (lesser is better).

Still, I'll give a chance to the runner, as we say in french, and sincerly hope that GW will prove me wrong.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:51:44


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I think that in time we will come to live with the removal of all the Codices. Many of us went through this once before when 2nd Ed came out, and it sucked then, and it still kinda sucks now, but we moved on and kept playing (for the most part). Those of us who bought hard into 6th Ed also got experience the crushing realisation that 7th Edition was out before 6th Ed's corpse was even cold.

That sucked a little more, and a link in my sig covers my feelings there if you care to read them.

However, this post isn't about edition changes and whether the AoS'ing of 40K is an inherent bad or just plain bad. No. Rather this is instead a chance for us to look back at 7th Edition, a very curious edition that, for all it's many, many, many, many, many, many faults gave us quite a lot in terms of factions and new miniatures. In fact, I'd argue that 7th Ed was perhaps the best edition for the depth and breadth it added to the game as far as player choice is concerned. Terrible bloated rules and formations that utterly ruined the game, but the sheer amount of stuff that we got, including some factions that had either been long absent or missing altogether, stuff that some of us had been waiting decades for, simply cannot be ignored and, in fact, should be celebrated.

In that light this post is something akin to what we get at shows like the Oscars, or the Grammys, a brief In Memoriam for the Cocides that shone brightly for such a short space of time.

As with any In Memoriam, it requires music, but rather than dictate the feelings you should have with one particular piece, I'll give you all a choice of three:

1. Sad sorrow.
2. Quiet contemplation.
3. Pure snark.

And without further ado, let us take this journey together, as we test to see how many pictures Dakka's board software will let me attach to a single post... (click the spoilers to reveal each fallen friend):

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:


Ahh, the memories.



Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:52:19


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


The other advantage, if they're doing what they did with AoS and having Dataslates for each unit, is that it then becomes really easy to tweak and re-balance - as it can be done on a unit by unit basis, rather than having to do the entire book.

Colour me interested. I greatly enjoy AoS, as it's a straight forward game with good tactical depth (and anyone who says it's shallow is genuinely lying, or plain hasn't played the game), and all without mobbing us with rules.

I don't think 40k is going to be as Rules light (it's always had a greater variety of weapons, all with more specific roles than Warhammer did), but AoS has shown GW can create a more-or-less balanced game.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:52:20


Post by: Whirlwind


Lord Kragan wrote:


No, what you did was a poor comparison, you compared a timeframe where the bulk of AoS releases happened (around 20+) while 40k was more or less stagnant in releases (14 publications: 3 sets of 2 campaign books-Damocles, Fenris, Traitor's hate- 2 codexii, 3 supplements and a 3-book campaign).

Stormcasts got a third book to solve the issue. SCE MK II costs 25 euros and covers the other two books (and more). It wasn't meant to drip-feed rules, but to solve the drip-feeding.


Alternatively you've proved the point I was making. You have more supplements for AoS in the same period as 40k, ergo each book has a smaller amount of information in it requiring more of them so if you want to collect everything it costs more overall. Yes there are only 1.75 years worth of AoS releases and it is always preferable to have a larger sample set. But unfortunately I do not have a time machine (if I did then I could go and get 5 years of data and provide it). Yes there were a of AoS releases initially, however there have also been periods of lower AoS releases. However I can only work on 1.75 years of data because that is all we have.

The difference is you are conjecturing that the releases aren't equivalent because you *believe* 40k is stagnant (we don't know this we don't have sale figures). You can't also provide any evidence that this has made any difference to the release schedule (it may have been exactly the same if there was no 8th edition in the works or whether sales were better).


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:55:24


Post by: Manchu


 Azreal13 wrote:
I heartily endorse this move, its the best thing to happen to 40K in years, and I'm now revising my position from "wouldn't play 40K if you paid me" to "optimistic to try out the new rules."
This where I'm at, too. I was really excited when AoS came out and it's been a pleasure to see that game develop in what I consider the right direction. Applying those lessons to 40k is the right move.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:55:24


Post by: Caederes


 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ahh, the memories.


Exalted! Best post I've read this year so far.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 16:58:17


Post by: biggie_reg


I'm nervously excited for the new rules. Hopefully they keep the feel of the game and don't completely change the rules. I would just like to see some semblance of balance. My Orks can only believe in themselves so much.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:00:19


Post by: EmberlordofFire8


 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Spoiler:





Well, the Imperial Agents book was a pivotal moment in the history of the Warhammer fourty thousand codex, bringing us...

Who am I kidding, I have no idea what Imp Agents is either.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:01:02


Post by: Melissia


Imperial Agents was filler.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:03:04


Post by: Alpharius


 Manchu wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
I heartily endorse this move, its the best thing to happen to 40K in years, and I'm now revising my position from "wouldn't play 40K if you paid me" to "optimistic to try out the new rules."
This where I'm at, too. I was really excited when AoS came out and it's been a pleasure to see that game develop in what I consider the right direction. Applying those lessons to 40k is the right move.


Couldn't agree more - let's keep the positive hype train moving in the right direction!


(For now!)


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:03:59


Post by: Grimgold


So here is a guess, the new marines are custodes in ultramarine colors since Robute is now the new emp. Also given the image we saw of alpha legion in mark IV armor I can't help but think that that the cover art is alpha legion vs death guard, colors seem right though if alpha legion is rocking an imperial laurel things have changed.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:04:49


Post by: Future War Cultist


I'm cautiously optimistic about this. Actually, I'm quite happy. They're taking the lessons learnt from AoS and 40k's past and applying them. This could be the best thing to happen to it.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:05:50


Post by: Azreal13


 Manchu wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
I heartily endorse this move, its the best thing to happen to 40K in years, and I'm now revising my position from "wouldn't play 40K if you paid me" to "optimistic to try out the new rules."
This where I'm at, too. I was really excited when AoS came out and it's been a pleasure to see that game develop in what I consider the right direction. Applying those lessons to 40k is the right move.


I haven't had a personality transplant, so I'm still healthily cynical that they'll fluff it, but that's currently balanced with the distinct possibility that they upped all the feths getting AOS out of the delivery room and they'll have a better grip on what they're doing with 40K.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:06:49


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:


No, what you did was a poor comparison, you compared a timeframe where the bulk of AoS releases happened (around 20+) while 40k was more or less stagnant in releases (14 publications: 3 sets of 2 campaign books-Damocles, Fenris, Traitor's hate- 2 codexii, 3 supplements and a 3-book campaign).

Stormcasts got a third book to solve the issue. SCE MK II costs 25 euros and covers the other two books (and more). It wasn't meant to drip-feed rules, but to solve the drip-feeding.


Alternatively you've proved the point I was making. You have more supplements for AoS in the same period as 40k, ergo each book has a smaller amount of information in it requiring more of them so if you want to collect everything it costs more overall. Yes there are only 1.75 years worth of AoS releases and it is always preferable to have a larger sample set. But unfortunately I do not have a time machine (if I did then I could go and get 5 years of data and provide it). Yes there were a of AoS releases initially, however there have also been periods of lower AoS releases. However I can only work on 1.75 years of data because that is all we have.

The difference is you are conjecturing that the releases aren't equivalent because you *believe* 40k is stagnant (we don't know this we don't have sale figures). You can't also provide any evidence that this has made any difference to the release schedule (it may have been exactly the same if there was no 8th edition in the works or whether sales were better).


Stagnant in releases. Please don't put words in other people's mouths when arguing with them. I, in no way spoke of sales nor them affecting release schedule. I said that in the period you compared there were not as many releases as in the previous period. Nothing else. I believe and see that there were less releases in the period you mention for 40k than for AoS.

Genestealer cults had 104 pages and costed 33 euros on softback. Flesh-eater courts had 104 pages and costed 20 euros. Beastclaw raiders had 120 for 20 euros. Bonesplitters 110 for 20 too. So who exactly has less information?

All-gates had 305 pages and costed 46euros on softback (52 on hardback). Gathering storm books had 136 pages each and costed 40 euros each.. All gates offered a ratio information/cost almost twice that of the GS books.

Mont'ka/Kauyon books had similar prizes to AoS realmgate wars while they had 200 pages and the other clocked in around the 300.

The launch book costed 5 euros more than Wrath of magnus, a 9% more of cost... yet had 62 pages more, 30% more info.

I'm done with this.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:06:55


Post by: streetsamurai


if they scale up the marines, I sure hope the do the same to the CSM. Would be ridiculous to see the supposed biggest threats to the Imperium being dwarfed by the defenders of the Imperium


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:08:14


Post by: BrookM


I wonder if they'll also poke around with the fluff, give the Imperial Guard some of its teeth back instead of it being the joke of the setting it is right now.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:09:09


Post by: Yodhrin


Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Caederes wrote:


I'm going off your earlier posts and that one, so you can consider it an overall response to the points you were making in this thread.

Which were false anyway. It costs way more to cover everything in Warhammer 40,000 when you account for all the FW books.


Jeez, then you really should read the posts in more detail. I have *never* said that to buy everything 40k related is cheaper than AoS, that's plainly ridiculous because 40k has been around much longer than AoS. What I did was *compare* the approximate costs of AoS to 40k over a two year period since AoS was released (and to be fair that's generous on AoS because it has been less than two years). Forgeworld have what released one/two books maybe in this period. That still makes 40k cheaper overall when comparing on a timeline basis.

And yes, I know what you're talking about with background narrative stuff. Guess what? That's in the Battletome for the army you buy. You don't need an AoS campaign book any more than you need a 40K campaign book.


But you would do if you wanted to play a campaign would you not and know about the background. I'll point out again for the god knows how many number of times. This is about comparing *like for like* not picking and choosing the element and then pointing out you don't need the rest

The cost is not drip fed more. To play a Stormcast Eternals army in Matched Play, you need the Battletome and the Generals Handbook. You cannot buy anything else to add on to a pure Stormcast Eternal army, all you have access to for Matched Play is in those two books. To play a World Eaters army, you need the Chaos Space Marine Codex, the Traitor Legion codex and the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. You can get optional - and crucial - rules support from Imperial Armor 13 and other sources like Imperial Armor: Apocalypse.


Yet you are completely ignoring that over these two years if you had been playing Sigmaries then there would have been three books released + the GH each one with a handful of units, hence over that time you have been drip fed the rules for them. With the Chaos Space Marines you are also unreasonably trying to select a weak army and saying this is what you need to play a game when in reality all you need to play a World Eaters Army is the rulebook and the 40k book. Whether that is an effective army is an entirely different question. This is not about picking an army to make a comparison because that is biased by the army being selected. Therefore you have to look holistically over the same time interval to come to a cost per month/year etc that provides the equal and equivalent experience.


No, what you did was a poor comparison, you compared a timeframe where the bulk of AoS releases happened (around 20+) while 40k was more or less stagnant in releases (14 publications: 3 sets of 2 campaign books-Damocles, Fenris, Traitor's hate- 2 codexii, 3 supplements and a 3-book campaign).

Stormcasts got a third book to solve the issue. SCE MK II costs 25 euros and covers the other two books (and more). It wasn't meant to drip-feed rules, but to solve the drip-feeding.


Everything else aside, calling 14 books over two years "stagnant" is farcical. It wasn't that long ago that two or three books a year was considered breakneck speed for GW.

As to the topic - meh, the rules will probably be as functional as any 40K edition; some stuff will work great, some will be broken as hell, attempts to fix the broken stuff will break more stuff, oh look time for another edition/Handbook. Previously I didn't care that much because the rules were nothing more than a convenient way to interact with a setting I really liked, but in the wake of them choosing to change 40K from grimdark hopeless setting to herobright ongoing narrative everything will be judged strictly on its own merits and GW haven't produced a set of rules that could stand strictly on its own merits since the late 90's. I'll give the free version a go and who knows, maybe they'll have struck gold, but somehow I doubt it.

Ah well, I always planned to get serious about putting together a full set of 2nd and 3rd Edition books, now's as good a time as any to start.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:09:35


Post by: hotsauceman1


So 30K and 40K are separate systems. Sweet.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:11:48


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Yodhrin wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Caederes wrote:


I'm going off your earlier posts and that one, so you can consider it an overall response to the points you were making in this thread.

Which were false anyway. It costs way more to cover everything in Warhammer 40,000 when you account for all the FW books.


Jeez, then you really should read the posts in more detail. I have *never* said that to buy everything 40k related is cheaper than AoS, that's plainly ridiculous because 40k has been around much longer than AoS. What I did was *compare* the approximate costs of AoS to 40k over a two year period since AoS was released (and to be fair that's generous on AoS because it has been less than two years). Forgeworld have what released one/two books maybe in this period. That still makes 40k cheaper overall when comparing on a timeline basis.

And yes, I know what you're talking about with background narrative stuff. Guess what? That's in the Battletome for the army you buy. You don't need an AoS campaign book any more than you need a 40K campaign book.


But you would do if you wanted to play a campaign would you not and know about the background. I'll point out again for the god knows how many number of times. This is about comparing *like for like* not picking and choosing the element and then pointing out you don't need the rest

The cost is not drip fed more. To play a Stormcast Eternals army in Matched Play, you need the Battletome and the Generals Handbook. You cannot buy anything else to add on to a pure Stormcast Eternal army, all you have access to for Matched Play is in those two books. To play a World Eaters army, you need the Chaos Space Marine Codex, the Traitor Legion codex and the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. You can get optional - and crucial - rules support from Imperial Armor 13 and other sources like Imperial Armor: Apocalypse.


Yet you are completely ignoring that over these two years if you had been playing Sigmaries then there would have been three books released + the GH each one with a handful of units, hence over that time you have been drip fed the rules for them. With the Chaos Space Marines you are also unreasonably trying to select a weak army and saying this is what you need to play a game when in reality all you need to play a World Eaters Army is the rulebook and the 40k book. Whether that is an effective army is an entirely different question. This is not about picking an army to make a comparison because that is biased by the army being selected. Therefore you have to look holistically over the same time interval to come to a cost per month/year etc that provides the equal and equivalent experience.


No, what you did was a poor comparison, you compared a timeframe where the bulk of AoS releases happened (around 20+) while 40k was more or less stagnant in releases (14 publications: 3 sets of 2 campaign books-Damocles, Fenris, Traitor's hate- 2 codexii, 3 supplements and a 3-book campaign).

Stormcasts got a third book to solve the issue. SCE MK II costs 25 euros and covers the other two books (and more). It wasn't meant to drip-feed rules, but to solve the drip-feeding.


Everything else aside, calling 14 books over two years "stagnant" is farcical. It wasn't that long ago that two or three books a year was considered breakneck speed for GW.

As to the topic - meh, the rules will probably be as functional as any 40K edition; some stuff will work great, some will be broken as hell, attempts to fix the broken stuff will break more stuff, oh look time for another edition/Handbook. Previously I didn't care that much because the rules were nothing more than a convenient way to interact with a setting I really liked, but in the wake of them choosing to change 40K from grimdark hopeless setting to herobright ongoing narrative everything will be judged strictly on its own merits and GW haven't produced a set of rules that could stand strictly on its own merits since the late 90's. I'll give the free version a go and who knows, maybe they'll have struck gold, but somehow I doubt it.

Ah well, I always planned to get serious about putting together a full set of 2nd and 3rd Edition books, now's as good a time as any to start.


I should have added "comparatively". My bad, in retrospect.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:12:04


Post by: Caederes


I just wanna kinda apologize for my errant behaviour tonight, drinking can do that to people :(

I don't want to sound like an AoS apologist but I think those pessimistic about the new edition should ease up a bit.
Yeah, GW messed up big time with AoS initially but the reason AoS is booming now is because GW did what it rarely used to do and actually acknowledged and fixed their mistakes. Regardless of whether you like or dislike AoS now, it's undeniable that it's current state is incomparably superior to it's original incarnation.

Basically...give 8th Edition 40K a chance. Wait until we see rules before you consider selling your armies off. I've talked to more than a few Age of Sigmar converts that initially rejected the game and got rid of their nice armies only to come back with their tails between their legs wishing they had been more patient. In fact, I'm one of them

Like with any new edition, there's nothing stopping you from playing the old edition (maybe not in GW stores and most tournaments) if you don't like it, but at least give it a try. I've always taken issue with those that trash AoS without ever actually having given it a proper spin, and I don't want the same to happen with 8th Edition 40K.

The fact that we are getting the three ways to play at release is proof of GW having learned lessons from the AoS release. Stay positive


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:12:27


Post by: Azreal13


 streetsamurai wrote:
if they scale up the marines, I sure hope the do the same to the CSM. Would be ridiculous to see the supposed biggest threats to the Imperium being dwarfed by the defenders of the Imperium


The rumours are that these are a distinct new revision of the Marine blueprint instigated by Guilliman. To retroactively have 10000 year old veterans become bigger because something changed in the Loyalist production method in the 41st Millenium wouldn't make sense.

A new, chunkier, CSM kit wouldn't be worst thing, maybe with more evil and less topknots, but these new Marines are their own thing.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:14:24


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Apologies if already discussed, but thread is TL/DR...

That image. Clearly Deathguard on the right....but I'm having a hard time identifying the Chapter on the left. Doesn't seem blue enough for Ultramarines?


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:14:29


Post by: Whirlwind


Lord Kragan wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

Of course you could compare 25 years vs 2. IF you made the yearly average like I did and based my argument on. Which is why also I spoke of July where there were sales of AoS already.

And no, I didn't include forgeworld, which would make the balance even worse.

And I'm working on euros, by the way, I think stating it multiple times would have made it obvious.

But you seem to be using some strong mental gymnastics to convince yourself of your argument, since you seem to equate 25+ books as equals to 14 publications.


Wow, you can use wiki thanks for that, I never knew such a page existed.

However the fact that you've just pointed to a page and then stated that I could fairly use an average of 25 years compared to 2 shows that your understanding of the concept and statistics is weak at best. I did try and give an example that was hideously wrong, but it obviously was missed by some distance. You cannot compare effects over different timescales like that because you are including additional factors that cannot be adequately compensated for. For example 25 years ago the GW development/manufacturing team was almost certainly smaller and therefore the number and type of things they could release would be inevitably be smaller. This would artificially bias the average of 25 year 40k releases to being lower compared to the 1.75 years of AoS releases - it's a pre-selection bias on my part. That is why you should only compare equivalent timescales because it is one less factor to skew the results.

Yes I am aware you are working in Euros, I'm working £'s, it makes no fundamental difference. Both the Euro/£ rate is close enough to 1:1 that it's not really an issue and we are also comparing costs within the Euro/£ and not across them (so 100 Euro to 50 Euro is the same percentage wise as £50 to £25). That you needed to highlight this makes me wonder whether you are truly understanding the conversation because it makes no difference in a significant way

No mental gymnastics needed. 25+ books for AoS is more than 14+ books for 40k. Hence it only re-enforces the argument that to fully engage with the AoS hobby *like for like* (which is where this argument started) has been more expensive than the 40k one in the same period and if the new 40k follows the same path then that is almost certainly be the same (if you are only interested in the matched game, of which there seems to be some obsession with, aspect then it is likely to be cheaper if the rules are free)


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:15:31


Post by: streetsamurai


 Azreal13 wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
if they scale up the marines, I sure hope the do the same to the CSM. Would be ridiculous to see the supposed biggest threats to the Imperium being dwarfed by the defenders of the Imperium


The rumours are that these are a distinct new revision of the Marine blueprint instigated by Guilliman. To retroactively have 10000 year old veterans become bigger because something changed in the Loyalist production method in the 41st Millenium wouldn't make sense.

A new, chunkier, CSM kit wouldn't be worst thing, maybe with more evil and less topknots, but these new Marines are their own thing.


So it seems that the setting is indeed getting less and less grimdark, and more and more herobright. Such a same


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

Of course you could compare 25 years vs 2. IF you made the yearly average like I did and based my argument on. Which is why also I spoke of July where there were sales of AoS already.

And no, I didn't include forgeworld, which would make the balance even worse.

And I'm working on euros, by the way, I think stating it multiple times would have made it obvious.

But you seem to be using some strong mental gymnastics to convince yourself of your argument, since you seem to equate 25+ books as equals to 14 publications.


Wow, you can use wiki thanks for that, I never knew such a page existed.

However the fact that you've just pointed to a page and then stated that I could fairly use an average of 25 years compared to 2 shows that your understanding of the concept and statistics is weak at best. I did try and give an example that was hideously wrong, but it obviously was missed by some distance. You cannot compare effects over different timescales like that because you are including additional factors that cannot be adequately compensated for. For example 25 years ago the GW development/manufacturing team was almost certainly smaller and therefore the number and type of things they could release would be inevitably be smaller. This would artificially bias the average of 25 year 40k releases to being lower compared to the 1.75 years of AoS releases - it's a pre-selection bias on my part. That is why you should only compare equivalent timescales because it is one less factor to skew the results.

Yes I am aware you are working in Euros, I'm working £'s, it makes no fundamental difference. Both the Euro/£ rate is close enough to 1:1 that it's not really an issue and we are also comparing costs within the Euro/£ and not across them (so 100 Euro to 50 Euro is the same percentage wise as £50 to £25). That you needed to highlight this makes me wonder whether you are truly understanding the conversation because it makes no difference in a significant way

No mental gymnastics needed. 25+ books for AoS is more than 14+ books for 40k. Hence it only re-enforces the argument that to fully engage with the AoS hobby *like for like* (which is where this argument started) has been more expensive than the 40k one in the same period and if the new 40k follows the same path then that is almost certainly be the same (if you are only interested in the matched game, of which there seems to be some obsession with, aspect then it is likely to be cheaper if the rules are free)


yeah, using yearly average from such different era is farcial at best. Not to mention that you would also have to adjust for inflation.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:16:27


Post by: Lord Kragan


 Whirlwind wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

Of course you could compare 25 years vs 2. IF you made the yearly average like I did and based my argument on. Which is why also I spoke of July where there were sales of AoS already.

And no, I didn't include forgeworld, which would make the balance even worse.

And I'm working on euros, by the way, I think stating it multiple times would have made it obvious.

But you seem to be using some strong mental gymnastics to convince yourself of your argument, since you seem to equate 25+ books as equals to 14 publications.


Wow, you can use wiki thanks for that, I never knew such a page existed.

However the fact that you've just pointed to a page and then stated that I could fairly use an average of 25 years compared to 2 shows that your understanding of the concept and statistics is weak at best. I did try and give an example that was hideously wrong, but it obviously was missed by some distance. You cannot compare effects over different timescales like that because you are including additional factors that cannot be adequately compensated for. For example 25 years ago the GW development/manufacturing team was almost certainly smaller and therefore the number and type of things they could release would be inevitably be smaller. This would artificially bias the average of 25 year 40k releases to being lower compared to the 1.75 years of AoS releases - it's a pre-selection bias on my part. That is why you should only compare equivalent timescales because it is one less factor to skew the results.

Yes I am aware you are working in Euros, I'm working £'s, it makes no fundamental difference. Both the Euro/£ rate is close enough to 1:1 that it's not really an issue and we are also comparing costs within the Euro/£ and not across them (so 100 Euro to 50 Euro is the same percentage wise as £50 to £25). That you needed to highlight this makes me wonder whether you are truly understanding the conversation because it makes no difference in a significant way

No mental gymnastics needed. 25+ books for AoS is more than 14+ books for 40k. Hence it only re-enforces the argument that to fully engage with the AoS hobby *like for like* (which is where this argument started) has been more expensive than the 40k one in the same period and if the new 40k follows the same path then that is almost certainly be the same (if you are only interested in the matched game, of which there seems to be some obsession with, aspect then it is likely to be cheaper if the rules are free)


I was kidding, you know? Not too big periods of time, though, are more manageable. But you seem to go a few comments behind, so I'll leave the final response for the time you actually catch on with everything, specially the fact that you don't seem to understand that GW works on price brackets. A book is actually more expensive in euros than in pounds in quite a signifiant fashion.That you don't know shows YOU are the one with the weak grasp. And yes, 14+ has had less releases because it's been stagnant in that department. During the previous months to AoS kickstart it had a more intense release schedule, with months even going as far as releasing 2-3 books a month.


Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase @ 2017/04/22 17:18:42


Post by: Azreal13


 streetsamurai wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
if they scale up the marines, I sure hope the do the same to the CSM. Would be ridiculous to see the supposed biggest threats to the Imperium being dwarfed by the defenders of the Imperium


The rumours are that these are a distinct new revision of the Marine blueprint instigated by Guilliman. To retroactively have 10000 year old veterans become bigger because something changed in the Loyalist production method in the 41st Millenium wouldn't make sense.

A new, chunkier, CSM kit wouldn't be worst thing, maybe with more evil and less topknots, but these new Marines are their own thing.


So it seems that the setting is indeed getting less and less grimdark, and more and more herobright. Such a same


Too early to call. The last time the Emperor let a Primarch in on the Astartes production method wasn't exactly all sunshine and rainbows.