Warhams-77 wrote: An overview of rumors regarding the new Marines with the important bits from the last months - in order of appearance
Spoiler:
4chan
Hastings - Disqus
Chikout wrote:
Hastings has popped up on the war of sigmar blog saying there will be completely new imperial units made by guillemot and Cawl that will include new types of marines and will feature in a new starter set later this year.
…I’m not suggesting anything gets squatted. I said clearly focus will be on new marines rather than existing chapters, but existing chapters will still get releases.
I don’t get it, people are happy they’re moving the story/timeline on but don’t want anything to change, they want just their chapter to get new toys yet complain SM have too much, 40k players should think themselves lucky that they didn’t get the same treatment that WFB fans did with the destruction of the setting and large parts of models/armies. What’s the point of the hobby for Bret or tomb kings players?
I see new marines as a chance to have the best of both worlds, SM originals don’t get endless variants and units but are still in the fight, new marines are like a new army to build up from scratch pretty much, I’m sure they’d happily ally so don’t really see what the problem is.
…The answer to that is simply I don’t know. I was told they new marines are different to current marines, [...]
I really doubt the iconic space marine kit will be retired so I wouldn’t worry too much about them becoming outdated. I guess fluffwise it would be no different than older armour classes still being around in 40k, sure the new marines would be out there, but a lot of existing marines are still out there too.”
Where was this taken from, could you link to the source? The new painting pic certainly looks legit to me, that's crazy big if the smaller old one is accurate, though. True scale marines as standard!
It's taken from the new page for 8th edition in the hobby section I believe.
Part of me thinks this will have to be some new proto-Marine as a separate entry from normal marines. That or GW is serious about re-designing the entire Space Marine range included every single special character (including the models they recently released for Custodes, the special characters from the recent triumvirate box etc.).
While "true scale" is a neat idea (if you were playing with marines who represented the fluff) the size of that army will be beyond monstrous (imagine the size needed for new Space Marine bikes). It will be a tremendously massive undertaking to change the whole range that way.
I expect a new "class" of Marine (the last thing the game needs) which also will allow gamers to run them as normal marines if they really want true-scale stuff for their games. Sadly this part of AoS is something I could do without. The size creep has been incredible lately and that will make a lot of armies/models suffer as a result.
I am really weirded out by the proportions. The top half looks like a standard marine but the bottom half looks like Terminator Legs, which makes their arms look really weedy and their legs into giant tree trunks.
Melissia wrote: That's not as big as people were making it out to be.
They're precisely as big as the picture showed. I'm not sure where you'd get some sort of idea they were bigger than the photographic evidence suggested?
Given these are in 3rd Company colours (red pad trim not 2nd Company gold), I can see them being rolled out as a wholesale refit of the Ultramarines. And that's BOUND to piss off some other Chapters' players...
The marine in the painting guide is literally the marine that was leaked with a helmet instead of a bare head.
Ho hum.
We'll get another set of rumours about the starter set on 22nd May, which is when the store managers have a big meeting at Nottingham which I believe will be to lovingly pet the new starter set. Anyone got anymore detail about it being numarines vs plague marines?
I'm a little nervous now. I like the aesthetic of the larger model but I don't like seeing the huge scale creep since i'm a little bit OCD and I for one couldn't afford to re do an entire army from scratch again when i'm investing in my current personal project and I couldn't happily add anything larger in my squads as it would look silly, I do realise that nothing is confirmed or set in stone, for all we know these could be the named Ultramarines that were mentioned for that Japanese GW release?
The bodies definitely match but it looks like the marines are just carrying an enlarged bolter, maybe the leaked marine is carrying some form of new special weapon?
Looks to me like some form of lmg maybe a halfway point between a full heavy bolter and the normal bolter?
Maybe its just that I've gotten so used to the current design, but these just look . . . off. Also, I would definitely say that the "leaked" marine was using a completely different type of bolter. Possibly a new special weapon?
Bigger sized marines would be fine if an army consisted of about 25 of them, plus a few tanks, for 2000 points. Straight swap for how the points are now - nope. Special unit amongst midget marines - nope.
EnTyme wrote: Maybe its just that I've gotten so used to the current design, but these just look . . . off. Also, I would definitely say that the "leaked" marine was using a completely different type of bolter. Possibly a new special weapon?
Again it's the legs. If you mentally have the marine's arms fold out to the side of him, you'll realize that it just barely reaches the waist. Normal Human proportions say your hand should reach past your groin.
Granted marines aren't "human" anymore, but the weird proportions are more noticeable here. It's also why most truescale conversions recommend using terminator arms and/or lengthening them with a disc of plasticard along with the legs.
Well well that pic is proof enough for me that those marines are one their way. I wonder if the first one was a prototype as the gun looks very different from the final version?
I'll wait till we have some decent pictures to decide if I like them or not. As of now they look decent but nothing exciting enough to warrant buying any...
So apologies in advance for the worlds worst photoshop but these look the same size as the deathwatch. Are we sure they are on 32mm bases?
Edit well I will just remove that monstrosity.
You've just compared a current mini to a current mini. The painting guide in that pic is not the NuMarines. Check the greaves in the pic in OP as the biggest telltale difference.
I'm pretty sure that the number of Space Marines in the current size is so big in the planet that we can put them in line and reach the Sun.
So I don't think anyone should be afraid of the fact that they in the future won't be capable of expanding their current marines armies without recurring to new scale marines.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Bigger sized marines would be fine if an army consisted of about 25 of them, plus a few tanks, for 2000 points. Straight swap for how the points are now - nope. Special unit amongst midget marines - nope.
Excellent points. I would actually push for fewer marines making up a force (with commensurate stats).
Of course, GW would charge much higher prices but they might actually match the fluff.
If this is or truescale, numarines..whatever.. if that's ever really a thing.. they don't have to just redo the Astartes.. that would also mean Chaos Marines would have to get a redo too.
Not disputing that, just saying that, as there's still some people determined to hang on to the leak being fake, there's an almost 1:1 analogue for the leak visible in the pic.
I was wondering if these guys might be an ultramarines only unit.
The ultramarines don't have any plastic sets except for their primarch, the honour guard and the tyrannic veterans are only in finecast.
This would allow them to do new figs without making regular marines obsolete.
Chikout wrote: I was wondering if these guys might be an ultramarines only unit.
The ultramarines don't have any plastic sets except for their primarch, the honour guard and the tyrannic veterans are only in finecast.
This would allow them to do new figs without making regular marines obsolete.
Ultramarines have a ton of plastic sets...it's called anything from Codex: Space Marines.
All honesty, it looks more and more like it is intended to be a new unit for Codex: Space Marines.
Blimey, in a day of knee jerk reactions, poorly informed rants and declarations that the sky will fall, Gamgee has still managed to make the needle wobble on the overreactionometer.
I think Scouts might definitely be one of them, but I would be shocked to see more than them and Finecast stuff.
I'll probably be wrong, but I really do think that whatever these new guys are is going to be something entirely different than just being "Tactical Marines Mark II". The whole point of GW adding the Stormcast with AoS is that they didn't have a really single "iconic" good guy to work with (or at least that seems to have been the impression they were under), not like Chaos had the Chaos Warriors or Marauders and the Undead had Skeletons/Vampires, etc.
Maybe, but what other time can they streamline the range and reduce SKUs in such a dramatic way? With all the perfectly-formed mini-factions of late the Marine range is looking decidedly bloated. Be interesting to see how it shakes out. I envisage a gradual phasing out of many kits, with new shinies introduced to replace some but not others.
JohnnyHell wrote: Maybe, but what other time can they streamline the range and reduce SKUs in such a dramatic way? With all the perfectly-formed mini-factions of late the Marine range is looking decidedly bloated. Be interesting to see how it shakes out. I envisage a gradual phasing out of many kits, with new shinies introduced to replace some but not others.
I could see something like the Veteran kits being discontinued/rolled together later.
Dreadnoughts definitely.
Terminators definitely.
Azreal13 wrote: Blimey, in a day of knee jerk reactions, poorly informed rants and declarations that the sky will fall, Gamgee has still managed to make the needle wobble on the overreactionometer.
Well I was planning on doing that anyways so teehee. Getting some combination or Kharadron Overlords, Beastclaw Raiders, Skaven, and/or cthulhu elfs depending on what is or is not released this year for AoS. My 40k budget will likely get slashed (or not slashed) proportionally based on how good nu 40k turns out. Still I've been feeling like going to AoS for awhile now. Just less drama in general and more chill player base.
It isn't 40K that's dramatic, you probably need to ease up a bit, bouncing around like that has to be exhausting.
GW have just spent thousands on a new Deathwatch range, and they've been established in lore for a long time, there's really no reason to think they'll be invalidated outside of personal angst.
My comment was clearly working off of how people prior to this thread described the potential miniature in question (assuming this even is it), and if you had any intent of good faith conversation it would have been obvious that was the intent.
Azreal13 wrote: What, because they weren't featured in SW:A?
It isn't 40K that's dramatic, you probably need to ease up a bit, bouncing around like that has to be exhausting.
GW have just spent thousands on a new Deathwatch range, and they've been established in lore for a long time, there's really no reason to think they'll be invalidated outside of personal angst.
Truth be told... nah not even slightly exhausting. I don't think they will remove factions, but I have a feeling a lot of them are going to get the SoB unsupported treatment outside of existing models. At the end of GS3 if I recall correctly guilliman kills some of the high lords which means changes are likely coming. In AoS they have released a ton of new AoS armies (new armies not old ones) and they haven't added new models to any of them except stormcast. So just because they invest an upfront amount in an army does not mean that army will get updated again. it could be considered a stand alone mini-army.
My comment was clearly working off of how people prior to this thread described the potential miniature in question (assuming this even is it), and if you had any intent of good faith conversation it would have been obvious that was the intent.
But there was a period of time of only days, perhaps even hours, (EDIT Thurs 9th - Sat 11th March specifically) between Hastings' rumours breaking and the original leaked pic. So basically your point was they differed from the mental impression you'd developed based on text only descriptions in a tiny period of time which you subsequently obviously hadn't revised because you were skeptical that an actual image was genuine.
It's a total non-argument and there's no conversation to be had, in good or bad faith, because there's nothing to be said beyond you got it wrong.
The marine in the painting guide is literally the marine that was leaked with a helmet instead of a bare head.
Ho hum.
We'll get another set of rumours about the starter set on 22nd May, which is when the store managers have a big meeting at Nottingham which I believe will be to lovingly pet the new starter set. Anyone got anymore detail about it being numarines vs plague marines?
Is it just me or is the unpainted grey marine in the book next to the "nu marine" look like standard marine proportions? It looks like it should be the same fig. I think a photoshopper is playing with us again.
If you're talking about the ones in the book, those are standard marines. It seems in this pic only the three painted marines and the blue basecoated one are nu-marines.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I just can't see them re-releasing the entire Marine range. Again.
I can't either, but I'd like them to.
Once the nu marines come out I don't see me buying any regular Space Marines again (granted I've only bought a handful in the past 5 years, but the desire has been there whereas it won't once nu marines hit the market).
The "original pic" was poor quality and was of questionable nature. There's been numerous examples of false rumors over the years. So I dismissed it. It still doesn't seem like it matches the scale of miniatures in the colored image here, for that matter.
I'm not interested in this crap you're trying to start.
JohnnyHell wrote: What's that? Is that the sound of many hats being eaten?
"His greaves are Procreate! I can tell because I've Procreated in my time!"
womp womp
"It's a conversion! I can identify all the components... well, some... well, a few BUT IT ISN'T REAL."
womp womp
"I could make that boltgun with Skitarii bits"
womp womp
(Looks like they've realised and switched out the hero banner now btw)
I do have an urge to go to that old thread and find quotes from all the people who were so certain it was a conversion just to laugh at them now
I always said it looked like a conversion but the complete inability to ID any of the parts stopped me from discarding it as a simple conversion, and no one skilled enough at sculpting to scratch build those parts would use those sculpting skills to make such a boring looking model.
But it was just a conversion. And it looks nothing like these "new marines", which may also be conversions. Even in those pics there's nothing on the printed box or the book to indicate these are official models. Plus didn't someone come out and basically say "this is my conversion model"?
Edit: Ok, I take it back... they do look like the unpainted "nu-marine" from before. Not convinced they're real, though
hotsauceman1 wrote: They recently released tongs of new marine kits that im sure they want to make money off with the molds
My bet is some special unit.
Perhaps. They do have relatively little bling for a 40k special unit though.
hotsauceman1 wrote: They recently released tongs of new marine kits that im sure they want to make money off with the molds
My bet is some special unit.
Perhaps. They do have relatively little bling for a 40k special unit though.
On the other hand the right amount for figures from a starter set....
Zachectomy wrote: And it looks nothing like these "new marines", which may also be conversions. Even in those pics there's nothing on the printed box or the book to indicate these are official models. Plus didn't someone come out and basically say "this is my conversion model"?
Edit: Ok, I take it back... they do look like the unpainted "nu-marine" from before. Not convinced they're real, though
Dude... they're in a painting guide. GW isn't about to release a painting guide containing a scratch-built/heavily converted Marine as a major example.
The unpainted one is even in blue plastic, the kinda stuff they'd do with a starter (blue for Marines, green for Nurgle).
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
I am actually ok with this (or rather it's the lesser of two evils, and one I can live with). If they are "special" Marines, then this is fine. I don't like the idea of them just replacing the existing Marines wholesale.
Zachectomy wrote: And it looks nothing like these "new marines", which may also be conversions. Even in those pics there's nothing on the printed box or the book to indicate these are official models. Plus didn't someone come out and basically say "this is my conversion model"?
Edit: Ok, I take it back... they do look like the unpainted "nu-marine" from before. Not convinced they're real, though
Dude... they're in a painting guide. GW isn't about to release a painting guide containing a scratch-built/heavily converted Marine as a major example.
The unpainted one is even in blue plastic, the kinda stuff they'd do with a starter (blue for Marines, green for Nurgle).
I mean... Blue plastic, or sprayed blue? I doubt they're going to cast a load of blue plastic bases. Not saying they're conversions, they're clearly not.
The "original pic" was poor quality and was of questionable nature. There's been numerous examples of false rumors over the years. So I dismissed it. It still doesn't seem like it matches the scale of miniatures in the colored image here, for that matter.
I'm not interested in this crap you're trying to start.
The ones in the coloured image here are current marines, it's the ones on the table that are the new ones.
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
I am actually ok with this (or rather it's the lesser of two evils, and one I can live with). If they are "special" Marines, then this is fine. I don't like the idea of them just replacing the existing Marines wholesale.
Oh they're still going to, like everything else with 8th I'm betting this is Boiling Frog Strategy - they're Spehsul Mahrinz for now, and then next year there will be a [fabulous]PLOOOOT TWIIIIST[/fabulous] about geneseed something something corruption something something oh noes regular Sphess Mahrinz are dying out! But don't worry, Mr Customer, we're not going to take away your existing army or anything, they'll still kinda exist in the fluff and their rules will remain kinda valid, and we won't totally discontinue the plastic kits for ages and ages(nb: however long it is until the next set of NuMarines releases), we're just never ever going to make new stuff for them.
The end result of all this is still Age of Guilliman and all NuMarines, all the time, but they'll do it gradually over, say, five years rather than blowing everything up, waiting six months, then dumping Hippyhammer on us with a whole new setting.
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
I am actually ok with this (or rather it's the lesser of two evils, and one I can live with). If they are "special" Marines, then this is fine. I don't like the idea of them just replacing the existing Marines wholesale.
Oh they're still going to, like everything else with 8th I'm betting this is Boiling Frog Strategy - they're Spehsul Mahrinz for now, and then next year there will be a [fabulous]PLOOOOT TWIIIIST[/fabulous] about geneseed something something corruption something something oh noes regular Sphess Mahrinz are dying out! But don't worry, Mr Customer, we're not going to take away your existing army or anything, they'll still kinda exist in the fluff and their rules will remain kinda valid, and we won't totally discontinue the plastic kits for ages and ages(nb: however long it is until the next set of NuMarines releases), we're just never ever going to make new stuff for them.
The end result of all this is still Age of Guilliman and all NuMarines, all the time, but they'll do it gradually over, say, five years rather than blowing everything up, waiting six months, then dumping Hippyhammer on us with a whole new setting.
If there is an absence of something to complain about, make up a scenario and complain about that. Good work.
It's certainly an...interesting solution to the problem of stumpy SM minis. Not the one I would've gone for, but I also woulsn't have brought back a loyalist Primarch.
But I will happily admit that I was WRONG to doubt the leaked pics. Maybe I'm wrong about people wanting nuer betterer nuMarines that your old stupid Marines are totally jealous of and Roboute totally loving them more.
first of all, does anybody have that guardmen model and compare it to recent marines, it seems to me that it is infact just a normal marine and that is a small guardsmen.
GW is worried that Minimarines have reached saturation point, but they are still there single biggest seller so they cannot afford to kill them off abruptly without an imediate almost the same replacement.
Given the way GW work they will look at sigmarines sales and put it down to there bigger size and not that it is the only real AoS army released in the last 2 years.
This combined with a vocal minority of TruScale fanatics gives them the idea of Bigger Marines. There positively salivating at the prospect of getting marine players to buy whole new armies of gulimarines and sadly I think it will work for every person who says feth this they will be 5 who drink deep and drop £1000's to replace there minimarines.
As for the fate of the Minimarines well I point to the 90% of fantasy armies still on get you by lists from 2 years ago.
froper98 wrote: first of all, does anybody have that guardmen model and compare it to recent marines, it seems to me that it is infact just a normal marine and that is a small guardsmen.
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
I am actually ok with this (or rather it's the lesser of two evils, and one I can live with). If they are "special" Marines, then this is fine. I don't like the idea of them just replacing the existing Marines wholesale.
Oh they're still going to, like everything else with 8th I'm betting this is Boiling Frog Strategy - they're Spehsul Mahrinz for now, and then next year there will be a [fabulous]PLOOOOT TWIIIIST[/fabulous] about geneseed something something corruption something something oh noes regular Sphess Mahrinz are dying out! But don't worry, Mr Customer, we're not going to take away your existing army or anything, they'll still kinda exist in the fluff and their rules will remain kinda valid, and we won't totally discontinue the plastic kits for ages and ages(nb: however long it is until the next set of NuMarines releases), we're just never ever going to make new stuff for them.
The end result of all this is still Age of Guilliman and all NuMarines, all the time, but they'll do it gradually over, say, five years rather than blowing everything up, waiting six months, then dumping Hippyhammer on us with a whole new setting.
If there is an absence of something to complain about, make up a scenario and complain about that. Good work.
All of what Yodhrin said has happened with AoS, I'd say that is quite a significant concern. But whatever, dismiss it as "whining" as per usual....
SeanDrake wrote: GW is worried that Minimarines have reached saturation point, but they are still there single biggest seller so they cannot afford to kill them off abruptly without an imediate almost the same replacement.
Given the way GW work they will look at sigmarines sales and put it down to there bigger size and not that it is the only real AoS army released in the last 2 years.
This combined with a vocal minority of TruScale fanatics gives them the idea of Bigger Marines. There positively salivating at the prospect of getting marine players to buy whole new armies of gulimarines and sadly I think it will work for every person who says feth this they will be 5 who drink deep and drop £1000's to replace there minimarines.
As for the fate of the Minimarines well I point to the 90% of fantasy armies still on get you by lists from 2 years ago.
Sigmarines got heavy price drops when repackaged, though, are the standard ones selling that well when that was done? HAD to be done, maybe?
I will get some nuMarines if it makes tru scaling easier - or to adjust my self-sculpted legs to their size, in case there will be nu-scale heroes I want to convert for my CSM. Especially if they're in a starter with Death Guard. But they really should've gone for chunkier legs, the thighs are still only as thick as the helmetless dudes' head.
Given how the GSC are some of the best looking and proportional humans GW has done and not huge, beefy monsters like Wrathmongers, Blight Kings or even all the plastic demons from YEARS ago, ehh. And they're half xenos, for crying out loud. Greyfax is tall, but she's wearing heels and a servo armour suit adds mass. So 40k humans should be safe - IF we ever get some more of those. I really hope we do.
The Silver Tower Sigmar priest has me worried for the Fantasy side, but he's supposedly a giant dude and the Bloodreavers have crap proportions but are not giants like the heroes.
JohnnyHell wrote: What's that? Is that the sound of many hats being eaten?
"His greaves are Procreate! I can tell because I've Procreated in my time!"
womp womp
"It's a conversion! I can identify all the components... well, some... well, a few BUT IT ISN'T REAL."
womp womp
"I could make that boltgun with Skitarii bits"
womp womp
(Looks like they've realised and switched out the hero banner now btw)
Don't see leakea model under painting though. So pic could still be conversion. Nothing so far actually proves anything one way or another.
Well no biggie either way. Won't be buying new marines anyway. If they are bigger replacement then too many old models who would look stupid alongside. If new unit i'm literally unable to use them ruje and fluff wise
Binabik15 wrote: Given how the GSC are some of the best looking and proportional humans GW has done and not huge, beefy monsters like Wrathmongers, Blight Kings or even all the plastic demons from YEARS ago, ehh. And they're half xenos, for crying out loud. Greyfax is tall, but she's wearing heels and a servo armour suit adds mass. So 40k humans should be safe - IF we ever get some more of those. I really hope we do.
The Silver Tower Sigmar priest has me worried for the Fantasy side, but he's supposedly a giant dude and the Bloodreavers have crap proportions but are not giants like the heroes.
Space Marines are some of the worst proportioned "humans" in all Wargaming. The armour is just bad in 2017
tneva82 wrote: Don't see leakea model under painting though. So pic could still be conversion. Nothing so far actually proves anything one way or another.
Well no biggie either way. Won't be buying new marines anyway. If they are bigger replacement then too many old models who would look stupid alongside. If new unit i'm literally unable to use them ruje and fluff wise
If it was a conversion it was by somebody who knew exactly what the new marines looked like. Details like the gorget, knees, and backpack match too closely to be a coincidence.
If they are some kind of uber marine, they're oddly plain, but I'd still be surprised if they're just a scale shift for all marines as it'll require them to eventually redo so much stuff to match up. I can see them doing it gradually over time because that's exactly what they're already doing, but making a sudden shift like that will make too many other kits, including some very new ones, look out of place.
JohnnyHell wrote: What's that? Is that the sound of many hats being eaten?
"His greaves are Procreate! I can tell because I've Procreated in my time!"
womp womp
"It's a conversion! I can identify all the components... well, some... well, a few BUT IT ISN'T REAL."
womp womp
"I could make that boltgun with Skitarii bits"
womp womp
(Looks like they've realised and switched out the hero banner now btw)
Don't see leakea model under painting though. So pic could still be conversion. Nothing so far actually proves anything one way or another.
Nothing so far... except the same chest plate design, the same longer bolter design, the same kneepad design, the same foot armour design, what appears to be the same head... yeah, nothing at all.
Speaking as the guy that started the truescale fad I eagerly await these guys knowing that I no longer have to spend a small fortune making more accurately scaled marines!
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
I am actually ok with this (or rather it's the lesser of two evils, and one I can live with). If they are "special" Marines, then this is fine. I don't like the idea of them just replacing the existing Marines wholesale.
Oh they're still going to, like everything else with 8th I'm betting this is Boiling Frog Strategy - they're Spehsul Mahrinz for now, and then next year there will be a [fabulous]PLOOOOT TWIIIIST[/fabulous] about geneseed something something corruption something something oh noes regular Sphess Mahrinz are dying out! But don't worry, Mr Customer, we're not going to take away your existing army or anything, they'll still kinda exist in the fluff and their rules will remain kinda valid, and we won't totally discontinue the plastic kits for ages and ages(nb: however long it is until the next set of NuMarines releases), we're just never ever going to make new stuff for them.
The end result of all this is still Age of Guilliman and all NuMarines, all the time, but they'll do it gradually over, say, five years rather than blowing everything up, waiting six months, then dumping Hippyhammer on us with a whole new setting.
If there is an absence of something to complain about, make up a scenario and complain about that. Good work.
I was positing what I consider a likely scenario, you're the one who chose to read a value judgement into it, but hey, if you get your jollies whining about other people having an opinion who am I to judge.
Zachectomy wrote: And it looks nothing like these "new marines", which may also be conversions. Even in those pics there's nothing on the printed box or the book to indicate these are official models. Plus didn't someone come out and basically say "this is my conversion model"?
Edit: Ok, I take it back... they do look like the unpainted "nu-marine" from before. Not convinced they're real, though
Dude... they're in a painting guide. GW isn't about to release a painting guide containing a scratch-built/heavily converted Marine as a major example.
The unpainted one is even in blue plastic, the kinda stuff they'd do with a starter (blue for Marines, green for Nurgle).
They're not in a painting guide. They're not in any official printed materials. And I don't see any unpainted ones. Just base coated and blue sprayed
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do you not see the painting guide that is in the picture with the NuMarines?
The pics in the painting guide itself look like old marines rathe than nu marines. Zoom in the chest plate, it doesn't have the moulding of the leaked pic and the neckline doesn't stick out as much as it appears to on all of the nu marines.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I just can't see them re-releasing the entire Marine range. Again.
Why not? I'm sure they are looking at all of the players who have already purchased all the Marines kits they will ever need. What does the secondary market on basic marine bodies and parts look like these days? What better way to stoke demand than to make new kits? Plus, it'd be a good way to stick it to the small secondary market companies who have been building models and bits that fit with the existing space marine ranges.
Totally agnostic on whether or not the nuMarines are actually a thing, but I can absolutely see why GW would want to push players to feel like they need to upgrade to the newest (incompatible) shiny. I would fully expect some "amazing deals" on start an army boxes with the new Marines. "Look at the savings on this box! " Never mind that going down that path basically locks you into a massive investment to rebuild your force to meet the new aesthetic…
Maybe, the pictures could be clearer, but to me it looks like they have different legs, weapons, heads and possibly arms, to those of the regular marines.
I guess it could be a new armour mark and different weapons, but they do look bigger than normal marines on those 32mm bases though.
I'll look back and fondly remember this post for some time. It took everything in me not to respond to it and point out the BS considering I have sculpted professionally off and on for years, and the things he was claiming to be procreate were laughable. I knew the truth would save me the effort though I feel like buying him a subscription to hat of the month club so never runs out of something fashionable to chew on
To everyone: please do NOT quote a huge block text with of multiple replies inside it to add a single, one line response. It's really cluttering up threads lately, and is very poor form etiquette.
If you do want to make such a post, either just hit "Reply" instead of "Quote", or add spoiler tags to keep the thread clean and readable.
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
So now we basically get the full gradient of armor size from tiny Scout Armor all the way up to Centurion? (and, if you want to count it, going through the Mark V Dreadnought to Contemptor and Leviathan).
I'll look back and fondly remember this post for some time. It took everything in me not to respond to it and point out the BS considering I have sculpted professionally off and on for years, and the things he was claiming to be procreate were laughable. I knew the truth would save me the effort though I feel like buying him a subscription to hat of the month club so never runs out of something fashionable to chew on
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
So now we basically get the full gradient of armor size from tiny Scout Armor all the way up to Centurion? (and, if you want to count it, going through the Mark V Dreadnought to Contemptor and Leviathan).
Yet my metal Terminators still look smaller than an average plastic marine. Nah, not scale creep (sigh). How long till GW put working joints in the new models and we call them Action Figures instead?
To be fair the metal terminators are horribly proportioned and looked ridiculous with their size. It was laughable to think that thats what was supposed to be some of the best armour in the IoM was supposed to look like.
Binabik15 wrote: Given how the GSC are some of the best looking and proportional humans GW has done and not huge, beefy monsters like Wrathmongers, Blight Kings or even all the plastic demons from YEARS ago, ehh. And they're half xenos, for crying out loud. Greyfax is tall, but she's wearing heels and a servo armour suit adds mass. So 40k humans should be safe - IF we ever get some more of those. I really hope we do.
The Silver Tower Sigmar priest has me worried for the Fantasy side, but he's supposedly a giant dude and the Bloodreavers have crap proportions but are not giants like the heroes.
Space Marines are some of the worst proportioned "humans" in all Wargaming. The armour is just bad in 2017
They were kinda bad when released I was just commenting on the pic that we'll soon playing with action figures if the scale keeps going up. But GSC and Skitarii are (somewhat) human and weren't turned into huge monsters, so that fear is unfounded - as long as GW actually does release humans and not just Marines and huge Orks.
I hope they eventually replace the existing marines, as the heroic anatomy on existing marines looks silly and seems to exist because of sculpting and casting capabilities, or lack thereof, in the past. GW isn't stuck in the past.
Their style is sufficiently similar that old marines or new marines still look like marines and are playable. The models could even be used side by side. I don't see the problem.
It isn't scale creep either. Marines are giants. The existing marine models were out of scale.
I can't wait to see the new terminators, because the old terminators look simply awful in terms of scale and anatomy.
I hope it's the pics, but the marines look like they are all legs and ate too much cake... with the weight going to their waist and legs. It looks like the conversions with terminator legs, where the legs dwarf the head, body, chest, etc.
I get they don't want to invalidate their other kits, but I wish the models increased size was more balanced. I know the deathwatch marines were a tad bigger (mainly due to pose), but they don't look all legs. That worked well and didn't look wierd.
I don't mind them increasing the size.
The things that annoy me about recent GW models are;
1. Too many in overdramatic diving / running poses.
2. Hovering on some kind of plastic piece tendril.
3. Those that are stood have their legs spread too far apart as if they're asking for a nut kicking.
And it goes without saying, all the rune/skull acne.
GW used to pride themselves that they'd made all the Marine kits interchangeable. How's that going to go now?
GW used to pride themselves that they'd made all the Marine kits interchangeable. How's that going to go now?
Probably about the same as before?
It's always been the case that Marine kits have certain swappable components within reason; like Terminator armor bits from the other Marine factions are swappable with Terminator armor bits that exist now--the Heresy marks excluded--and the bared heads are swappable among the various Marine kits in general.
I'm seriously starting to think that these "Giant Marines" are intended to be some kind of "Astartes Prime" or a "Raptor Redux" kind of thing. They're not intended to replace the Astartes that exist now, but they're intended to fulfill a specific role for now.
So it wouldn't really make a whole lot of sense for the stuff to be swappable with "generic" Marine kit, beyond maybe helmets or pouches and the like.
I don't mind the idea of more size appropriate Marines but on the other hand I have 60ish Power Armor marines that aren't embiggened (it is a word, just ask the Simpsons) and I'm not keen on Super Duper Uber Humans as opposed to the normal Super Humans.
Hoping that when things are more known the issues are mitigated or non-existent.
We have Super Duper Uber Humans in many forms. Grey Knights, Adeptus Custodes, etc... I find another type in the fluff and game redundant, but it isn't gonna be the end of the world.
What I'm most worried about is if they follow the Age of Sigmar formula of releasing new mini armies and not launching new kits to existing armys. But as 40k is still here I don't think that will happen here.
As a generic Greenskin player and Slaves to Darkness with Khorne Bloodbound in Age of Sigmar I'm totally aware that these armies are background armies, and I don't expect them to be supported with new kits. But I'm glad that my armies don't receive the Bretonnian and Tomb Kings treatment. They are leftovers of the Old World. The factions in 40k are styll the same.
I think I might collect an army of these new marines. The models look fantastic. Which chapter to do though? I had planned on doing a 30k Sons of Horus army but these are so tempting. Maybe Blood Angels to pay homage to my 10 year old self... But then Blood Angels are stuck in Imperium Nihilus and so won't have access to this new mark.
Bottle wrote: I think I might collect an army of these new marines. The models look fantastic. Which chapter to do though? I had planned on doing a 30k Sons of Horus army but these are so tempting. Maybe Blood Angels to pay homage to my 10 year old self... But then Blood Angels are stuck in Imperium Nihilus and so won't have access to this new mark.
Hmmmm, tough decisions!
Easy answer, Scythes of the Emperor. They have great fluff, easy colour scheme ( black and yellow bodies) plus they have been ravaged by the Hive fleets so tons of scope for survivors and salvation teams.
That will most likely be the chapter I do if I decide to come back to 40k.
Bottle wrote: I think I might collect an army of these new marines. The models look fantastic. Which chapter to do though? I had planned on doing a 30k Sons of Horus army but these are so tempting. Maybe Blood Angels to pay homage to my 10 year old self... But then Blood Angels are stuck in Imperium Nihilus and so won't have access to this new mark.
Hmmmm, tough decisions!
Personally, I'm hoping each of the Codex Chapters will get a unique variant of these big guys...
We have two flavours of 'super' dudes in the Grey Knights and dw. Why do we need bigger badder dudes? It just detracts from the coolness of marines imo.
I feel it muddies the waters and is a lame concept but I'm sure there are plenty who'll lap it up.
I would have preferred a straight aesthetic change as i do think the new models look proportionallybetter
Bottle wrote: I think I might collect an army of these new marines. The models look fantastic. Which chapter to do though? I had planned on doing a 30k Sons of Horus army but these are so tempting. Maybe Blood Angels to pay homage to my 10 year old self... But then Blood Angels are stuck in Imperium Nihilus and so won't have access to this new mark.
Hmmmm, tough decisions!
Easy answer, Scythes of the Emperor. They have great fluff, easy colour scheme ( black and yellow bodies) plus they have been ravaged by the Hive fleets so tons of scope for survivors and salvation teams.
That will most likely be the chapter I do if I decide to come back to 40k.
Hmm was never a fan of the black and yellow actually, but they're are cool army to do all the same. I hadn't thought about second founding, but it's only really Black Templars that appeal to me and I don't want to do black power armour particulary.
I bet those new marines would look cool in Space Wolf colours!
Kanluwen wrote:
Bottle wrote: I think I might collect an army of these new marines. The models look fantastic. Which chapter to do though? I had planned on doing a 30k Sons of Horus army but these are so tempting. Maybe Blood Angels to pay homage to my 10 year old self... But then Blood Angels are stuck in Imperium Nihilus and so won't have access to this new mark.
Hmmmm, tough decisions!
Personally, I'm hoping each of the Codex Chapters will get a unique variant of these big guys...
*cough* Mor Deythan *cough*
Sorry, had a bit of a tickle...
Bespoke units for each chapter would be very cool. Forgeworld has really shown what's possible with turning the first founding each into fully realised factions.
Hmm, thinking more I might actually do a de saturated Ultramarine army like the left side of the Ultra/Death Guard concept, or maybe a custom chapter in that blue/grey.
Thanks for drawing my attention to this. I am very excited to see whats coming in 8th now. I actually believe the Numarines are coming, but probably as an optional unit, not replacing the current models. Pretty slick, finally they fixed the weird proportions (IMHO)
CrudeLord wrote: We have two flavours of 'super' dudes in the Grey Knights and dw. Why do we need bigger badder dudes? It just detracts from the coolness of marines imo.
I feel it muddies the waters and is a lame concept but I'm sure there are plenty who'll lap it up.
There's nothing "super" about Deathwatch. They're specialized, not "super". Grey Knights are also highly specialized, being drawn from worlds cultivated for high proportions of Psykers. Beyond that there has been nothing really to suggest they're anything beyond an army of pseudo-Librarians.
We know nothing about whatever these new guys are. There's speculation right now, based off the way "Rise of the Primarch" ended that they are Guilliman creating new "super Marines".
CrudeLord wrote: We have two flavours of 'super' dudes in the Grey Knights and dw. Why do we need bigger badder dudes? It just detracts from the coolness of marines imo.
I feel it muddies the waters and is a lame concept but I'm sure there are plenty who'll lap it up.
There's nothing "super" about Deathwatch. They're specialized, not "super".
Grey Knights are also highly specialized, being drawn from worlds cultivated for high proportions of Psykers. Beyond that there has been nothing really to suggest they're anything beyond an army of pseudo-Librarians.
We know nothing about whatever these new guys are. There's speculation right now, based off the way "Rise of the Primarch" ended that they are Guilliman creating new "super Marines".
You are correct about Deathwatch but no, Grey Knights are form with the most purest humans in the galaxy, totally incorruptible, all of them have high psychic powers and are trained levels beyond the normal Astartes. They are too specialiced against daemon but even against a non demon enemy they are superior, generally speaking, to normal Astartes.
CrudeLord wrote: We have two flavours of 'super' dudes in the Grey Knights and dw. Why do we need bigger badder dudes? It just detracts from the coolness of marines imo.
I feel it muddies the waters and is a lame concept but I'm sure there are plenty who'll lap it up.
There's nothing "super" about Deathwatch. They're specialized, not "super".
Grey Knights are also highly specialized, being drawn from worlds cultivated for high proportions of Psykers. Beyond that there has been nothing really to suggest they're anything beyond an army of pseudo-Librarians.
We know nothing about whatever these new guys are. There's speculation right now, based off the way "Rise of the Primarch" ended that they are Guilliman creating new "super Marines".
You are correct about Deathwatch but no, Grey Knights are form with the most purest humans in the galaxy, totally incorruptible, all of them have high psychic powers and are trained levels beyond the normal Astartes.
Training != Superhuman
Assassins are trained to absurd levels, does that make them superhuman?
They are too specialiced against daemon but even against a non demon enemy they are superior, generally speaking, to normal Astartes.
Again, see the bit on training != superhuman.
Grey Knights don't detract from the "coolness" of Marines.
Deathwatch, if anything, enhance the coolness of Marines seeing as how y'know...they're just normal Marines seconded to an organization...
CrudeLord wrote: We have two flavours of 'super' dudes in the Grey Knights and dw. Why do we need bigger badder dudes? It just detracts from the coolness of marines imo.
I feel it muddies the waters and is a lame concept but I'm sure there are plenty who'll lap it up.
There's nothing "super" about Deathwatch. They're specialized, not "super".
Grey Knights are also highly specialized, being drawn from worlds cultivated for high proportions of Psykers. Beyond that there has been nothing really to suggest they're anything beyond an army of pseudo-Librarians.
We know nothing about whatever these new guys are. There's speculation right now, based off the way "Rise of the Primarch" ended that they are Guilliman creating new "super Marines".
You are correct about Deathwatch but no, Grey Knights are form with the most purest humans in the galaxy, totally incorruptible, all of them have high psychic powers and are trained levels beyond the normal Astartes.
Training != Superhuman
Assassins are trained to absurd levels, does that make them superhuman?
They are too specialiced against daemon but even against a non demon enemy they are superior, generally speaking, to normal Astartes.
Again, see the bit on training != superhuman.
Grey Knights don't detract from the "coolness" of Marines.
Deathwatch, if anything, enhance the coolness of Marines seeing as how y'know...they're just normal Marines seconded to an organization...
Okay so I agree. The Deathwatch or the Grey Knights aren't quite the same. They're like the SAS and the Vaticans Holy Army of marines. I've made a terrible mistake in canvasing them as just better.
Doesnt take away from the fact thess new guys seem to be just super'er super dudes.
I don't like the concept at all and I just don't think they should be addressing a scale adjustment with this contrived nonsense and would have preferred a new mark of armour or something as an explanation.
CrudeLord wrote: We have two flavours of 'super' dudes in the Grey Knights and dw. Why do we need bigger badder dudes? It just detracts from the coolness of marines imo.
I feel it muddies the waters and is a lame concept but I'm sure there are plenty who'll lap it up.
There's nothing "super" about Deathwatch. They're specialized, not "super".
Grey Knights are also highly specialized, being drawn from worlds cultivated for high proportions of Psykers. Beyond that there has been nothing really to suggest they're anything beyond an army of pseudo-Librarians.
We know nothing about whatever these new guys are. There's speculation right now, based off the way "Rise of the Primarch" ended that they are Guilliman creating new "super Marines".
You are correct about Deathwatch but no, Grey Knights are form with the most purest humans in the galaxy, totally incorruptible, all of them have high psychic powers and are trained levels beyond the normal Astartes.
Training != Superhuman
Assassins are trained to absurd levels, does that make them superhuman?
They are too specialiced against daemon but even against a non demon enemy they are superior, generally speaking, to normal Astartes.
Again, see the bit on training != superhuman.
Grey Knights don't detract from the "coolness" of Marines.
Deathwatch, if anything, enhance the coolness of Marines seeing as how y'know...they're just normal Marines seconded to an organization...
Well, to me, the fact that all of them are pyshics, and the rumours that their geneseed just like the one of the custodes comes from the Emperor themselve, put them as Super Duper Humans, but I think we just disagree in the definition of Superhuman.
And before anyone jump to conclusions, I too dislikes this "New super space marines", if they are introduced as a new generation of regular marines but superior, because it push down every other thing in the setting down in the feed chain of the universe. And if marines have "new super marines" then other factions will have too their "new super X". Personally I don't like that.
Okay so I agree. The Deathwatch or the Grey Knights aren't quite the same. They're like the SAS and the Vaticans Holy Army of marines. I've made a terrible mistake in canvasing them as just better.
Doesnt take away from the fact thess new guys seem to be just super'er super dudes.
I don't like the concept at all and I just don't think they should be addressing a scale adjustment with this contrived nonsense and would have preferred a new mark of armour or something as an explanation.
All we have right now is a picture of these new models.
There's nothing talking about "the concept" beyond rumors and speculation at this point.
Just makes normal marines seem... Well... Normal.
What, Chaos Marines didn't do that for you already?
CrudeLord wrote: We have two flavours of 'super' dudes in the Grey Knights and dw. Why do we need bigger badder dudes? It just detracts from the coolness of marines imo.
I feel it muddies the waters and is a lame concept but I'm sure there are plenty who'll lap it up.
There's nothing "super" about Deathwatch. They're specialized, not "super".
Grey Knights are also highly specialized, being drawn from worlds cultivated for high proportions of Psykers. Beyond that there has been nothing really to suggest they're anything beyond an army of pseudo-Librarians.
We know nothing about whatever these new guys are. There's speculation right now, based off the way "Rise of the Primarch" ended that they are Guilliman creating new "super Marines".
You are correct about Deathwatch but no, Grey Knights are form with the most purest humans in the galaxy, totally incorruptible, all of them have high psychic powers and are trained levels beyond the normal Astartes.
Training != Superhuman
Assassins are trained to absurd levels, does that make them superhuman?
They are too specialiced against daemon but even against a non demon enemy they are superior, generally speaking, to normal Astartes.
Again, see the bit on training != superhuman.
Grey Knights don't detract from the "coolness" of Marines.
Deathwatch, if anything, enhance the coolness of Marines seeing as how y'know...they're just normal Marines seconded to an organization...
Well, to me, the fact that all of them are pyshics, and the rumours that their geneseed just like the one of the custodes comes from the Emperor themselve, put them as Super Duper Humans, but I think we just disagree in the definition of Superhuman.
And before anyone jump to conclusions, I too dislikes this "New super space marines", if they are introduced as a new generation of regular marines but superior, because it push down every other thing in the setting down in the feed chain of the universe. And if marines have "new super marines" then other factions will have too their "new super X". Personally I don't like that.
There is no such thing as "the geneseed to custodes". Each Custode was crafted by the Emperor (and only the Emperor), but I'm sure GW can retcon that despite just releasing a HH book about it! Better Marines also make no sense since again only the Emperor can create new stable geneseed for Marines (there isn't some vial labled Primarch DNA)
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
It kind of gives some hope, doesn't it? If these nu-marines are going to be the new standard, then it will be one hell of a shakeup for a lot of people and how good they will end up being remains to be seen, but it is a hell of a lot better than if these new giant marines are just some new elite-elite-elite super-special Guilliman marines.
I prefer too if this new marines is just a re-scale to substitute the marines we have now. Yes, it will "suck" to many people because they will be out of scale with the rest of their army but:
1-I'm sure in Ebay anybody would find thousands of marines really, really cheap
2-You can mix them and have shorter and taller marines
The only thing that makes me sad about a re-scale in the marines range is that it will make beautiful Character sculps look very short in comparasion.
I kind of hope they aren't a new type of marine. As someone with limited resources who hid a bunch of the current Marines I still personally wouldn't mind replacing them entirely with more properly scaled figures. Personally this is in large part due to that I would hate to see current chapters and characters I like suddenly seeming "second rate"
Ahtman wrote: I don't mind the idea of more size appropriate Marines but on the other hand I have 60ish Power Armor marines that aren't embiggened (it is a word, just ask the Simpsons) and I'm not keen on Super Duper Uber Humans as opposed to the normal Super Humans.
it's a perfectly cromulent word.
Anyway, I do like quite a few things about the specific nu-marine - I like the rail on his bolter from the previous thread, some of the wrist detail. The scale creep also concerns me though, but my guess is also that these will be some kind of Guillemarines, Still, one thing GWS much have noticed is the little timmies love big robots and marines, and they've been delivering a lot of the former so I imagine it's time for more of the latters.
I wonder if these new "super-dooper" marines (which I'm still not convinced aren't conversions) might be starter-set exclusives, like the chaos chosen were from Dark Vengence. Or the Plastic Ork Warboss and Deff Koptas, or the crashed aquila, etc
They could even get their own datasheet to use in 40k (like the goff killmob) or whatever the 8th edition equivalent is, without actually being fully supported kits.
It's happened as recently as age of sigmar, where the only way (to my knowledge) to obtain a khorne bloodstoker or bloodsecrator is the starter box.
Even if they eventually get their own kit, it might be like the sisters of silence... one kit, and that's it
What if these aren't actually "marines" as such. Something to consider, what if they are something akin to the original Thunderwarriors, just the generic version.
Yeah, they'd put on chapter specific armor, but wouldn't be "marines" in a true sense. They'd live short, glorious, bloody lives and never live lone enough to be anything more than a sargent.
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Occums Razor - they're Tacticals
I agree 100%. If they were some special unit they'd be covered in all manner of arcane frippery to designate them as so.
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Occums Razor - they're Tacticals
It's not been 7 years. It's been however long ago the Centurions came out; they redid the Tactical Squad then.
I had hoped that this would be a new, super special marine unit and that was the end of it, but the fact that these appear to be in the starter set suggests otherwise. I think we are going to see a rolling replacement of SM kits, but with an in universe justification of new marines coming from Terra as replacements/reinforcements. The whole Imperium Nihilus then gives people an excuse if they're using the older kits, as they can say that their army is cut off from Terra.
The only fluff I can see working is that Primarch genetic material is required, which would also give a reason why the chapter-specific kits are still old marines, as I can't see Dark Angels, Space Wolves, etc. accepting marines with a different gene seed into their ranks. Allies, fine, brothers? No. I actually don't see this as a problem (slight spoilers for Deliverance Lost):
Spoiler:
Corax's "Raptor" project actually worked; the new, better, marines were stable and effective. It was only the Alpha legion throwing a warp virus into the mix that caused the problems. Interestingly Corax had to use unmodified gene seed, rather than his own, to make it work and that was stolen by the Alpha legion too. So either a) the Alpha legion (or some element of them) bring it back or b) somehow Guilliman can use his own.
A) raises the possibility that at leas part of the Alpha legion really are loyal. I've always wondered if the twins would split the legion, given the new fluff conflicts with their original status as traitors.
B) Raises an interesting question; what if Guilliman was created with the unmodified gene seed? In Deliverance Lost they talk about the Emperor deliberately making all his sons different to strengthen the Imperium, but that still means he could have left one with the original Primarch material and achieve that goal. This might also explain why Ultramarines gene seed is so stable and it would add an extra level of hubris to the Emperor's actions, if it was all the mucking about he did that caused the gene seed instabilities that, in part, led to the Horus Heresy.
The whole thing will end up with a late-44 Wehrmacht feel to it; some units equipped with the latest Panther main battle tanks and Stg.44 assault rifles and others running round with WWI era bolt-action rifles and converted Czech 38T tank destroyers.
I am definitely concerned about this new uber marine stuff. Like others said, it detracts from the legendary custodes, primarchs and makes any sisters models look even more insignificant.
I will say I do prefer the look of these to the older smaller marines. They remind me more of the proportions of this guy;
But man they better have a good explanation for this. Also, that artwork alone makes me hope we don't lose the gothicness and grit of the 40k imperium. I'm torn on Guilliman even being back, gives too much hope...and we can't have that.
so one of the pictures is a joke and the other simply looks like a new tactical squad in a same size as death watch. so basicly not larger marines, just the same size as death watch.
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
So now we basically get the full gradient of armor size from tiny Scout Armor all the way up to Centurion? (and, if you want to count it, going through the Mark V Dreadnought to Contemptor and Leviathan).
Yet my metal Terminators still look smaller than an average plastic marine. Nah, not scale creep (sigh). How long till GW put working joints in the new models and we call them Action Figures instead?
We're already there in places. Take a look at the Admech walker and the Tau flyer with their pop-up missiles.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
froper98 wrote: so one of the pictures is a joke and the other simply looks like a new tactical squad in a same size as death watch. so basicly not larger marines, just the same size as death watch.
people are getting worked up over nothing.
No. KK claimed responsibility for the pic as an April fool's joke. The pic is very much real.
Could simply be a matter of perspective? The photograph could be of a painter with dwarfish, Trump-like hands - against those, anything will seem big... well, nearly anything
Wulfmar wrote: Could simply be a matter of perspective? The photograph could be of a painter with dwarfish, Trump-like hands - against those, anything will seem big... well, nearly anything
Look at the Bolters they're holding. They're identical to the one in the leaked image. As are the gorgets and the kneepads.
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Occums Razor - they're Tacticals
It's not been 7 years. It's been however long ago the Centurions came out; they redid the Tactical Squad then.
Yeah, they redid the tactical squad box when they gave them the grav weapons in 2013.
Mordian2016 wrote: Upscaling SM would be a mammoth task and a massive annoyance for a considerably large part of the fanbase.
As much as GW are doing great things at the moment, I can't stand the scale creep with new releases.
I'm choosing to believe that it's not all marines being up-sized, but just a special new type of Gulliman's Heros Marines that cost +10 points each or something.
Maybe they are in the fluff only marginaly better than normal marines, so marginal that they could have the same stats. Maybe they just get better equipment. Their main advantage could be a way faster and more reliable production so they will slowly phase out the traditional marines in the fluff.
Hastings mentioned that at least Russ will also return, so non-smurfs might get their own models if their requirement is indeed a primachrs blood.
So do i, changing their most iconic miniature by this much as the new standard make no sense to me. Scaling them up is not such i big deal i think. But changing the armor design by so much i dont think is such a good idea.
Adjusting it a little bit and fine tuning yes. Or having the new one as a alternative.
But changing your classic best seller that everybody love? Would be like coca-cola changing their recipe.(its an example, i dont know if coca-cola ever changed their recipe and if it was successful or not so dont bash me)
Mordian2016 wrote: Upscaling SM would be a mammoth task and a massive annoyance for a considerably large part of the fanbase.
A massive annoyance? The fanbase will be all over the latest shiny. Replacing all their old models with the newest coolest toy. Denouncing anyone who has the inferior old models. I thought that was how a vast amount of the GW fanbase worked.
JohnnyHell wrote: You remember there are (at least) 8 marks of armour already, not counting bespoke variants and Terminator armour suits? There is no one standard.
And because Marines are the best seller, changing them guarantees most sales.
(Don't start everyone on the New Coke analogies again. We'll be off topic for days)
Coca-cola is Mark VII Aquila
Coca-cola light is Mark VI Corvus
Coca-cola life is Mark VIII Errant
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: So do i, changing their most iconic miniature by this much as the new standard make no sense to me. Scaling them up is not such i big deal i think. But changing the armor design by so much i dont think is such a good idea.
Adjusting it a little bit and fine tuning yes. Or having the new one as a alternative.
But changing your classic best seller that everybody love? Would be like coca-cola changing their recipe.(its an example, i dont know if coca-cola ever changed their recipe and if it was successful or not so dont bash me)
I was called New Coke and was a desaster, sometimes in the 90ies IIRC
The pics we have seen so far don't really look that much different from current marines. At a glance, you could easily think they are the same. I think one of those mixed ia current tactical squad will stand out even less than a Deathwatch marine.
I use mainly 2nd editions metals, but I mixed in many different plastics. you really have to look very closely to pick them out.
I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
JohnnyHell wrote: You remember there are (at least) 8 marks of armour already, not counting bespoke variants and Terminator armour suits? There is no one standard.
And because Marines are the best seller, changing them guarantees most sales.
Something being a new unit entirely also guarantees "most sales".
That's how the Fire Warriors box managed to be relevant, despite being stupid expensive, as it let Tau players add the Breacher Teams into the mix.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: But changing your classic best seller that everybody love? Would be like coca-cola changing their recipe.(its an example, i dont know if coca-cola ever changed their recipe and if it was successful or not so dont bash me)
They might be changing it up to appeal to newer customers as well as getting existing customers to buy up the new stock. Even though Space Marines are iconic and the most popular race.... they also have horrible proportions and I've been told by a few mates starting wargaming that their first impression of Space Marines wasn't "ohhhh, awesome!" it was "err, why do they look so derpy?".
Personally if the nu Marines look better than the squatting Marines we currently have, I'll be happy to buy some to replace my existing models. But that said I don't own a huge force, someone who owns a whole company or chapter's worth of Marines might be a little less happy.
Bull0 wrote: I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.
For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.
Bull0 wrote: I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.
For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.
In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.
Bull0 wrote: I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.
For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.
In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.
Out of interest do you have a space marine collection that you play games with?
My issue with upscaling is where does it end? Upscale all the vehicles as well? And then what about other races that are meant to be bigger than their current model size suggests?
I don't think mixing true scale and heroic scale is a good idea. It will not take long for the game system to become aesthetically incongruous on the tabletop.
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
Bull0 wrote: I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.
For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.
In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.
Out of interest do you have a space marine collection that you play games with?
I have a Space Puppy collection that I haven't played many games with in the past several years.
The main annoying thing for me will be wondering how long before they upscale the Space Pups and Terminators to match.
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robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.
The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.
Bull0 wrote: I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.
For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.
In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.
Out of interest do you have a space marine collection that you play games with?
I have a Space Puppy collection that I haven't played many games with in the past several years.
The main annoying thing for me will be wondering how long before they upscale the Space Pups and Terminators to match.
I think the Wolf Guard Terminators will be relatively safe.
Compare what you have to the new Wulfen models and make assumptions from there.
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.
The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.
I don't think the squatting criticism applies to the current marine kits anymore. I'd agree it was a problem with the previous 3rd edition Marines that came out in 1998, but the newer CAD designed stuff has much better variety of poses. None are standing bolt upright at their full height of course, but I wouldn't have though they would on the battlefield much anyway.
Marines have changed a massive amount since the 80's, better posing, better details, better models, they are nothing like the RTB01 kit anymore
These mysterious new 8th edition marines may be a bit bigger than the current ones, but it's unlikely they will be anymore detailed than the current stuff, bigger isn't always better, I would prefer marine models to stay as miniatures, rather than evolving into 6 inch action figures
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.
The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.
I don't think the squatting criticism applies to the current marine kits anymore. I'd agree it was a problem with the previous 3rd edition Marines that came out in 1998, but the newer CAD designed stuff has much better variety of poses. None are standing bolt upright at their full height of course, but I wouldn't have though they would on the battlefield much anyway.
Marines have changed a massive amount since the 80's, better posing, better details, better models, they are nothing like the RTB01 kit anymore
I'm looking at the pictures of the current Tacticals on the GW website right now and they mostly still look to have pretty crazy femur angles. They seem to all be standing with their feet about shoulder width apart (but we're talking the insanely wide SM shoulder pads here ) but the leg angles still look derpy 80's style to me (and that was the style back in the 80's due to the difficulty in casting legs that weren't spread wide).
Stand up and try and mimic the joint angles on most of the Space Marine legs and you end up looking pretty silly
I'm not a fan of scale creep in the slightest, however I see this more as "scale/proportion correction" than "scale creep".
Mordian2016 wrote: Upscaling SM would be a mammoth task and a massive annoyance for a considerably large part of the fanbase.
A massive annoyance? The fanbase will be all over the latest shiny. Replacing all their old models with the newest coolest toy. Denouncing anyone who has the inferior old models. I thought that was how a vast amount of the GW fanbase worked.
As much as GW are doing great things at the moment, I can't stand the scale creep with new releases.
And with this I totally agree.
Amen. They'll gradually phase out the old space marines by lack of support and wowing people with new releases until it comes to a retcon at some point in the future. People will be snubbing their noses at those who still use the old marines.
By that time, Space Wolves will be Wolf marines that look like wolves, Ultramarines will be the nu-marines as we see them, blood angels will be man-bat marines, Salamanders will be dragon-looking marines, Iron Hands will be robot marines and Raven Guard will be winged monstrosity marines.
Edit: Oh yeah, and the newly found primarchs will join to form a giant robot with robot armored Corax forming the body, the arms formed by robot armored Sanguinus and Vulkan, and the legs formed by robot armored Guilliman and Rogal Dorn. That robot will fight the tyranid monstrosities, chaos titans and entities from the warp.
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.
Also in agreement with these posts. While upping the size of Space Marines to resolve (some of) the significance divide between models and lore, where does that leave armies like Eldar and Orks? Moving regular humans to being smaller (i.e. like the Forgeworld guardsmen) seems more ideal. Plus while I can see GW re-doing the entire Space Marine range, I don't see that happening for all of the xenos races.
Although, I could see GW doing this for the following reasons: (a) it gives everyone's* favorite army the chance to be entirely re-purchased over a couple of years, functioning as a huge revenue source, and (b) it boosts marines to being more like their AoS Stormcast counterparts, which are far-and-away the biggest individual models in that game.
To me it's not a simple choice of either marines are too small or guardsmen are too big. It's both.
Cadians and marines are two of the most badly proportioned kits that GW currently produce. Using either as a basis by which to measure other kits is flawed.
In comparison, the skitarii and the genestealer neophytes are wonderful, gorgeously sculpted and beautifully proportioned. I'd love the see these being the new standard against which other kits are measured.
In an ideal world, I'd love to see Cadians replaced with a kit scaled more in line with the genestealer neophytes and I'm hoping the new marines are going to replace the crappy current marines.
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.
The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.
I don't think the squatting criticism applies to the current marine kits anymore. I'd agree it was a problem with the previous 3rd edition Marines that came out in 1998, but the newer CAD designed stuff has much better variety of poses. None are standing bolt upright at their full height of course, but I wouldn't have though they would on the battlefield much anyway.
Marines have changed a massive amount since the 80's, better posing, better details, better models, they are nothing like the RTB01 kit anymore
I'm looking at the pictures of the current Tacticals on the GW website right now and they mostly still look to have pretty crazy femur angles. They seem to all be standing with their feet about shoulder width apart (but we're talking the insanely wide SM shoulder pads here ) but the leg angles still look derpy 80's style to me (and that was the style back in the 80's due to the difficulty in casting legs that weren't spread wide).
Stand up and try and mimic the joint angles on most of the Space Marine legs and you end up looking pretty silly
I'm not a fan of scale creep in the slightest, however I see this more as "scale/proportion correction" than "scale creep".
Have to agree to disagree with you on all points there lol
Still, if these come out as Mark 9 armour marines or a new unit of marines that go alongside the current range, then both of us will be happy. People who prefer the current scale can stay with the current Marines, people who want bigger can have the new bigger stuff, and people who like both can have both
People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer
While I would like them to rescale the entire SM range to these Numarines (even if it meant redoing a few dozen plastic box sets), it would probably upset a lot of players. Still, rule of cool and all that, and these ARE cool!
Besides the Custodes being larger than regular marines, wasn't there a story in White Dwarf about 15 years ago about a research team (might have been inquisitor and retinue) on Mars finding an ancient abandoned laboratory and in it was a giant marine in stasis who woke up and escaped in their ship? I want to say it was something regarding the Cursed Founding, might have been the related fluff story for the Chapter Approved article or else a story about the same time,
Kalamadea wrote: People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer
While I would like them to rescale the entire SM range to these Numarines (even if it meant redoing a few dozen plastic box sets), it would probably upset a lot of players. Still, rule of cool and all that, and these ARE cool!
Besides the Custodes being larger than regular marines, wasn't there a story in White Dwarf about 15 years ago about a research team (might have been inquisitor and retinue) on Mars finding an ancient abandoned laboratory and in it was a giant marine in stasis who woke up and escaped in their ship? I want to say it was something regarding the Cursed Founding, might have been the related fluff story for the Chapter Approved article or else a story about the same time,
The story I think you mean was researchers found a mystery site, which may have been a chapters gene seed operation, but I think more likely it was a Fabius Bile lab. The larger sized marine broke free when a ship entered orbit and it escaped.
I have nearly a full chapter, chapter not company built of the current marines, I do not want new larger marines . I won't even buy centurions because.......stupid.
Kalamadea wrote: People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer
While I would like them to rescale the entire SM range to these Numarines (even if it meant redoing a few dozen plastic box sets), it would probably upset a lot of players. Still, rule of cool and all that, and these ARE cool!
Besides the Custodes being larger than regular marines, wasn't there a story in White Dwarf about 15 years ago about a research team (might have been inquisitor and retinue) on Mars finding an ancient abandoned laboratory and in it was a giant marine in stasis who woke up and escaped in their ship? I want to say it was something regarding the Cursed Founding, might have been the related fluff story for the Chapter Approved article or else a story about the same time,
Yeah, I think a lot of people don't consider that a Space Marine is basically the size of an Ogryn (just under).. but.. in power armor (at least that's my understanding). If you think about that in terms of miniatures and bases, the whole thing that we have is kinda funny with how undersized they actually are.
Not mine but used for illustrative purposes.
Spoiler:
I have a few Space Marine armies.. but I would most likely buy re-scaled marines. The cost of the vehicles might make me cry but at that point 1/32 military vehicles might be more acceptable.
I'm glad my hard stance of "I will never buy Space Marines until their models match their fluff" might finally be paying off. Even if these new marines are supposed to be their own thing that's not how I'm gonna do it.
Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines, especially if they have new rules that make them incredibly awesome (such as being multi-wound models)
judgedoug wrote: Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...
I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.
Kalamadea wrote: People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer
He isn't that much bigger than a Deathwatch Marine from the looks of it, and the pictures of them being painted have them situated next to a paint bot.
Put a 32 and 40 next to a paint pot to get an idea.
judgedoug wrote: Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...
I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.
yeah, my feeling is once we actually geta good look at these people expecting a dramatic resizing are gonna be dissappointed
judgedoug wrote: Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...
I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.
yeah, my feeling is once we actually geta good look at these people expecting a dramatic resizing are gonna be dissappointed
Not me.. because even a small resizing means that a conversion to "true scale" or whatever the cool kids are calling it these days will be scads easier. Would I prefer that they crank it to 11? Probably.. but I would understand why they would take a more conservative approach.
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.
Also in agreement with these posts. While upping the size of Space Marines to resolve (some of) the significance divide between models and lore, where does that leave armies like Eldar and Orks? Moving regular humans to being smaller (i.e. like the Forgeworld guardsmen) seems more ideal. Plus while I can see GW re-doing the entire Space Marine range, I don't see that happening for all of the xenos races.
Although, I could see GW doing this for the following reasons: (a) it gives everyone's* favorite army the chance to be entirely re-purchased over a couple of years, functioning as a huge revenue source, and (b) it boosts marines to being more like their AoS Stormcast counterparts, which are far-and-away the biggest individual models in that game.
*may not be a factual statement
Actually, Orks have grown substantially from their first incarnation. I've been actively collecting the various eras of greenskins and even though the standard boy box hasn't changed all that much over the years, they are in some cases 2x the size of RT era orks. The Nobz are also pretty well sized to be honest. Now.. Eldar.. I don't know nuthin about that..
judgedoug wrote: Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...
I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.
yeah, my feeling is once we actually geta good look at these people expecting a dramatic resizing are gonna be dissappointed
Not me.. because even a small resizing means that a conversion to "true scale" or whatever the cool kids are calling it these days will be scads easier. Would I prefer that they crank it to 11? Probably.. but I would understand why they would take a more conservative approach.
I'd rather see Cadians and Catachans be scaled down on par with the latest Chaos Cultists that have been included in the starter sets. That would do more to balance scale issues than more scale creep would. Bobbleheads... nnngh...
judgedoug wrote: Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...
I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.
yeah, my feeling is once we actually geta good look at these people expecting a dramatic resizing are gonna be dissappointed
Not me.. because even a small resizing means that a conversion to "true scale" or whatever the cool kids are calling it these days will be scads easier. Would I prefer that they crank it to 11? Probably.. but I would understand why they would take a more conservative approach.
I'd rather see Cadians and Catachans be scaled down on par with the latest Chaos Cultists that have been included in the starter sets. That would do more to balance scale issues than more scale creep would. Bobbleheads... nnngh...
I could see Cadians.. but honestly Catachans are supposed to be like.. bodybuilder type monsters of men. Granted, they're beefcake AF but I've never thought they were out of line with their fluff..
I'd like Orks to either be scaled down or have their strength boosted. Never made sense to me they were S3 but had arms twice the size of a catachan or marine.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I'd like Orks to either be scaled down or have their strength boosted. Never made sense to me they were S3 but had arms twice the size of a catachan or marine.
It's a problem that Orks are supposed to be big and buff but they're also supposed to be a horde. By rights you could probably make them S4, but the increase in points would take them further away from being a horde army. So they compromise by making them T4 but still only the same S as a guardsman.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I'd like Orks to either be scaled down or have their strength boosted. Never made sense to me they were S3 but had arms twice the size of a catachan or marine.
It's a problem that Orks are supposed to be big and buff but they're also supposed to be a horde. By rights you could probably make them S4, but the increase in points would take them further away from being a horde army. So they compromise by making them T4 but still only the same S as a guardsman.
It's also what happens when you have stats that range from 1-10 but only give 3-6 to the vast majority. That variance of 4 points across almost everything in the game makes it a lot more difficult to show smaller differences.
There was also background (the super whacky book about Xenobiology, maybe? An Index article in WD?) that Orks have "lower muscle density" compared to humans. Kroot have much higher, so those scrawny birds can still rip your arm off.
Granted, an Ork could -and would- do the same given the opportunity. Were they S4 back in third? My memory is hazy and I don't want to look for my codex.
I think the upper legs are extended and the chest is widened a bit and the pose is really raising the whole miniature higher. What this small gain in height and slightly changed proportions does, is give the impression of much greater size. So anyone who wants marines that look like they tower over marines will be getting what they want. They likely won't be getting ogre sized marines though.
In fact, I think the effect of these small but well chosen changes will be enough that having people speculate about them being so much bigger as a result of seeing a few pictures is inevitable. Like in this thread.
Also, there are factors of the human brain in interpreting form and the size of the head relative the rest of the body matters in terms of judging if someone or something looks tall when there's no other immediately intuitive frame of reference (or at least that's what graphic designers have told me ). These new marines, even if it is mostly the result of a small change of proportions and pose) have 1:6 head:height ratio and the current/previous tactical squad marines are closer to 1:5. As far as how our brain interprets things that's going to be huge. Normal humans in the real world tend to be a bit more than 1:7 with an idealized form at closer to 1:8 So it is a step in the right direction as far as looking more heroic.
I do hope that I'm wrong and when you get them in hand they are like 45mm to the top of the head, but it's probably not that much of a difference.
New marines are most likely real. IMO if you understand how GW makes their money you realize that they will do everything they can to sell more marines.
judgedoug wrote: Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...
I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.
The last Space Marine army I had was a mix of Rogue Trader through 3rd edition , so these guys are preeeeetttty much twice the size of my RTB1 Beakies.
I am glad to see this, as I have always thought the marines looked way too small for what they were supposed to represent. That, and I am a massive OCD for True-Scale stuff.
The new Mechanicus stuff is great, but even they suffers from the short torso, short biceps/forearms, short thighs/calves syndrome. At least their heads, hands and feet aren't also immensely massive like the seemingly gravity affected Cadians.
I think all of this is a holdover from the old sculpting days where the designers hand sculpted stuff, and the evolution of proper proportions never really came along. Back then it helped in the casting process, but now it just looks a bit archaic.
The other question, which I am sure has been brought up in the thread, is whether the vehicles will also be increased in size to compensate. If Marines wouldn't have fit 10 to a Rhino before when they were smaller, they sure as hell won't now. Maybe it might lead to a Renaissance amongst the Tech Marines who suddenly find out that you can improve tanks by giving them suspension tracks, rather than just do the one-piece-over-the-hull-side STC setup. I'd love that just as much, as it would help in its own small way to bring 40k into a new era. Same game functionality, just looks better.
nonono, they are not fake marines, the are alternative marines ;-) - all jokes aside, that probably will be the case at least for some time
I'm saying that they may not be that much larger than the current marines to be the rumoured numarines. They might be, but they might also just be a few mm larger and be normal tactical marines with revised proportions.
One side effect.. all the guys that are making "not-marines" will now have to weigh their options.. as this will invalidate a lot of stock for more than a few of these types of companies.
nonono, they are not fake marines, the are alternative marines ;-) - all jokes aside, that probably will be the case at least for some time
I'm saying that they may not be that much larger than the current marines to be the rumoured numarines. They might be, but they might also just be a few mm larger and be normal tactical marines with revised proportions.
I'm hoping for 45mm numarines
Yeah, I was assuming those were marines on 40mm bases based off the original leaked pic next to the Last Chancer, if those are just 32mm bases the Numarines are on then they really aren't that much bigger at all.
I think another good sign for gullimarines being real if still needed, is the pretty weedy stat line for minimarines they spiolered leaving room for gullimarines to be better(2w, ld8, +2 to hit). Add on potentially better equipment and I would guess that should give them the edge.
Binabik15 wrote: Granted, an Ork could -and would- do the same given the opportunity. Were they S4 back in third? My memory is hazy and I don't want to look for my codex.
Nope, Orks were basically T4 I2 Guard back in the day. It was actually weird when 3rd rolled around and they made them BS2.
Azreal13 wrote: The models ITT are not supposed to be regular Marines, so nobody knows their stats
How sure are you of that? It was pointed out that the pic at the beginning of the thread shows models with Tactical markings.
Because that's been the rumour since inception. By both Hastings and Sad Panda. It would be a very specific set of circumstances where both were right about new Marine armour but wrong about them representing a new sort of Marine.
They are, ultimately, still Marines though, so there's no reason to think them following similar organization (we've already maybe seen an assault variant, if you squint a bit) is that unusual. There's already Assault and Devastator Centurions and Tactical and Assault Termies, it isn't unreasonable (especially from THE Codex chapter) that we have new, different, Marines but the same structure.
Binabik15 wrote: Granted, an Ork could -and would- do the same given the opportunity. Were they S4 back in third? My memory is hazy and I don't want to look for my codex.
Nope, Orks were basically T4 I2 Guard back in the day. It was actually weird when 3rd rolled around and they made them BS2.
Keep in mind they also went from WS 3 to WS 4, and A 1 to A 2. Orks were given a very clear focus on CC for 3rd.
Azreal13 wrote: The models ITT are not supposed to be regular Marines, so nobody knows their stats
How sure are you of that? It was pointed out that the pic at the beginning of the thread shows models with Tactical markings.
Because that's been the rumour since inception. By both Hastings and Sad Panda. It would be a very specific set of circumstances where both were right about new Marine armour but wrong about them representing a new sort of Marine.
They are, ultimately, still Marines though, so there's no reason to think them following similar organization (we've already maybe seen an assault variant, if you squint a bit) is that unusual. There's already Assault and Devastator Centurions and Tactical and Assault Termies, it isn't unreasonable (especially from THE Codex chapter) that we have new, different, Marines but the same structure.
Like you say, it's still rumor. I'll believe it when I see it.
robbienw wrote: I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.
I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.
This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.
The answer to your question is, "Yes, eventually."
The progression of aesthetics in GW miniatures (and to some degree all miniatures) is fairly easy to follow. They started simplistic and ugly. They got more sophisticated and better looking with time and technology. The era from 4th edition through 7th edition saw the older "ugly" kits being replaced with nicer sculpts, increased dynamism/poseability, and multi-part options. The last major stylistic development was probably the dual-unit kits.
GW needs to keep making and selling models, but we're probably at or near "peak niceness" in terms of available detail and options. But they can't really keep adding new units to armies forever. You can look at a lot of contemporary kits and logically wonder if they will ever need to be replaced. If they don't need replacement and there's a limit to how many new units can reasonably be designed and sold, it's fairly obvious that one direction to go is "updating" armies by tweaking the relative scale of miniatures. It basically gives them a reason to redo every single kit if they want to.
Bull0 wrote: I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
Meh I have 3rd gen, DA Vengeance, and Codex current gen. The new marine looks damn good to me, so I welcome it. Just break the groups into their respective gen squads and let your paint job do the rest.
On a more positive note, did anyone else notice that the collarpiece for the space marines actually seems to act as a proper gorget now, which the art has depicted since friggin' third? That'll be nice.
I'm not exactly thrilled at the idea of 'Guillimarines', if indeed this is what these guys are gonna be, rather than just the new line of marines... it seems, I dunno, frivolous somehow. Is this what the 40k universe needs, a new breed of Space Marine? It's not a huge deal, but if it's true, it'll be 'meh' for a lot of fans I think.
Maybe others feel similar and just don't want to accept the mounting evidence...
The armour was probably redesigned by rowboat, and he's probably also done some clever stuff with the creation process, and from that we've got handwringing that these are now GUILLIMARINES that are one better than our old, gakky space marines, when in practise it's just a nice new marine kit with a little bit of in universe explanation for the scale creep. that's my bet. Won't know til we get some more info though. I really like the models though, not gonna lie.
Years ago in a WD article they had said that they were eventually going to a "True Scale" space marine scale.
This was the article that stated they wanted 40k games to be like epic with hoards of minis at the feet of giant war engines. I'll try to dig the issue up, but it was one of the old timers that was talking about all this. Chambers maybe?
True scale, giant marines, numarines... Whatever you want to call them, they were inevitable to arrive.
Jambles wrote: I'm not exactly thrilled at the idea of 'Guillimarines', if indeed this is what these guys are gonna be, rather than just the new line of marines... it seems, I dunno, frivolous somehow. Is this what the 40k universe needs, a new breed of Space Marine? It's not a huge deal, but if it's true, it'll be 'meh' for a lot of fans I think.
Maybe others feel similar and just don't want to accept the mounting evidence...
I'm sure others feel similar, but if I'm going to be honest?
I can get behind a new breed of Space Marine created by Guilliman and Cawl a lot easier than some sudden new Mark of superduper armor that makes Marines into Custodes out of nowhere.
Marines, in terms of the fluff, have always been a bit over the top...but so have the things they've been fighting. The Imperium has been on the back foot since the end of the Heresy, with Marines being figures of legend that can't be expended in wars of attrition. In the fluff Ork Boyz can bring Marines down from weight of numbers, Traitor Astartes can go toe to toe with their Loyalist counterparts, Tyranids can drown them in bodies, Tau can bring them down with pulse rifle volleys, etc.
Something has to change, in terms of the fluff, and Guilliman seemingly has seen that.
I kind of view it similar to the way Halo's canon evolved to introduce the Spartan III/IVprograms. The UNSC had a finite number of S-IIs(notably the Master Chief), and once the program became public? The S2s became a propaganda tool. The UNSC never marked Spartans as killed in action because they deemed(rightly) the confirmed loss of a Spartan as something that would have a huge impact on morale of the regular joes.
Enter the Spartan III program. They weren't as impressive as Chief and his breed, but they could be created quickly and used for suicide runs that nobody had to know about.
Not saying that's the route they're going to take, but I can see a way for a new breed of Marine to fit in easier than some amazing armor that boosts Astartes to Primarch or Custodes levels.
I can get behind a new breed of Space Marine created by Guilliman and Cawl a lot easier than some sudden new Mark of superduper armor that makes Marines into Custodes out of nowhere.
This is a fair point. I hope it's explained well like this in the lore.
Enter the Spartan III program. They weren't as impressive as Chief and his breed, but they could be created quickly and used for suicide runs that nobody had to know about.
Love the Spartan lore. If they actually made a Spartan III -style expendable Space Marine unit in 40k... that would be very cool to me.
Jambles wrote: I'm not exactly thrilled at the idea of 'Guillimarines', if indeed this is what these guys are gonna be, rather than just the new line of marines... it seems, I dunno, frivolous somehow. Is this what the 40k universe needs, a new breed of Space Marine? It's not a huge deal, but if it's true, it'll be 'meh' for a lot of fans I think.
Maybe others feel similar and just don't want to accept the mounting evidence...
I'm sure others feel similar, but if I'm going to be honest?
I can get behind a new breed of Space Marine created by Guilliman and Cawl a lot easier than some sudden new Mark of superduper armor that makes Marines into Custodes out of nowhere.
Marines, in terms of the fluff, have always been a bit over the top...but so have the things they've been fighting. The Imperium has been on the back foot since the end of the Heresy, with Marines being figures of legend that can't be expended in wars of attrition. In the fluff Ork Boyz can bring Marines down from weight of numbers, Traitor Astartes can go toe to toe with their Loyalist counterparts, Tyranids can drown them in bodies, Tau can bring them down with pulse rifle volleys, etc.
Something has to change, in terms of the fluff, and Guilliman seemingly has seen that.
I kind of view it similar to the way Halo's canon evolved to introduce the Spartan III/IVprograms. The UNSC had a finite number of S-IIs(notably the Master Chief), and once the program became public? The S2s became a propaganda tool. The UNSC never marked Spartans as killed in action because they deemed(rightly) the confirmed loss of a Spartan as something that would have a huge impact on morale of the regular joes.
Enter the Spartan III program. They weren't as impressive as Chief and his breed, but they could be created quickly and used for suicide runs that nobody had to know about.
Not saying that's the route they're going to take, but I can see a way for a new breed of Marine to fit in easier than some amazing armor that boosts Astartes to Primarch or Custodes levels.
Which would be great except fo a number of things.
1. The only reason these guys will exist is to re sell people whole armies of marines who all ready have whole armies of marines, thats it all fluff is secondary and was probably scribbled up by the Spirtual Leige himself.
2. I know the Imperium is a terrible bureaucratic nightmare, but seriously for 10k years of decline and loss they have had these gamechanging weapons and troops in a warehouse just a hop outside Terra.
3. Normal Marines are all that was need It's been hinted at a number of times that outside of a few genetic outliers(wolves,angels) the only reason there is not more marines is that the IG and High Lords saw it as a weaking of the cotrol/power.
4. Fluff is ultimately irrelevant it wll be either avarage and forgetable or terible and allways rembered. I lean towards the second option as parts of GS carried the stench of wardian fluff and I doubt he would miss the chance to replace all marines with Ultramarines MK2.
Which would be great except fo a number of things.
1. The only reason these guys will exist is to re sell people whole armies of marines who all ready have whole armies of marines, thats it all fluff is secondary and was probably scribbled up by the Spirtual Leige himself.
If that were true, we would be seeing a whole new army from day one. So far all we've seen is what looks like a jump pack variant and a tactical variant. No new Terminators, no new Devastators, no new Centurions, Dreadnoughts, etc.
One of the bits that we got, photowise, had the standard Devastator kit being built with the new whatevers in the background.
2. I know the Imperium is a terrible bureaucratic nightmare, but seriously for 10k years of decline and loss they have had these gamechanging weapons and troops in a warehouse just a hop outside Terra.
I think you're misunderstanding what I was getting across.
I, personally, can get more behind Cawl and Guilliman's secret project having been something that would let them create new Astartes or enhance the existing Astartes using weird science rather than just "new armor bros!".
3. Normal Marines are all that was need It's been hinted at a number of times that outside of a few genetic outliers(wolves,angels) the only reason there is not more marines is that the IG and High Lords saw it as a weaking of the cotrol/power.
The way the fluff has hinted/outright said it is that the High Lords didn't want more Astartes as the Astartes are effectively their own entities.
The IG don't get a say in the matter.
4. Fluff is ultimately irrelevant it wll be either avarage and forgetable or terible and allways rembered. I lean towards the second option as parts of GS carried the stench of wardian fluff and I doubt he would miss the chance to replace all marines with Ultramarines MK2.
Ward had nothing to do with this. He's said, repeatedly, that he was getting involved on something from the Black Library side of things.
From my perspective, I honestly don't care about the background of why Nu-Marines exist.
The fact that I'd get my hands on a Space Marine miniature that's better proportioned and scaled than the current lot is a boon to my sense of "reasonable," in as much as that term can be applied to a sci-fi game.
After I get my hands on them, I can paint them as any chapter I want.
It was in the photo of the two adults playing the game while standing there, not the other one with Tyranids and Ultramarines.
You couldn't see much, but there were a few models in blue with more dynamic jumpy poses and bulky backpacks that someone(I think Atia?) commented were jump pack troops.
Jambles wrote: I'm not exactly thrilled at the idea of 'Guillimarines', if indeed this is what these guys are gonna be, rather than just the new line of marines... it seems, I dunno, frivolous somehow. Is this what the 40k universe needs, a new breed of Space Marine? It's not a huge deal, but if it's true, it'll be 'meh' for a lot of fans I think.
Maybe others feel similar and just don't want to accept the mounting evidence...
Right? One of the greatest military strategists in the history of the Imperium, architect of the Codex Astartes, and returning High Lord of Terra in conversation with the Emperor of humankind reveals his grand idea is "bigger Marines"? Talk about anticlimactic.
I have trouble imagining this is the way it'll go. There are much better options, IMO. I'm still hoping that they up-tech the Guard instead. If Cawl can make some life-sustaining armor for Guilliman, he can design some sweet armor for the Guard that gets them in better shape for the wars ahead.
Azreal13 wrote: A lot of people said that, plenty of people kept saying it when the original pic leaked, some people are still saying it now.
It won't surprise me if some people are still saying it when the pre orders go up.
Which would be great except fo a number of things.
1. The only reason these guys will exist is to re sell people whole armies of marines who all ready have whole armies of marines, thats it all fluff is secondary and was probably scribbled up by the Spirtual Leige himself.
If that were true, we would be seeing a whole new army from day one. So far all we've seen is what looks like a jump pack variant and a tactical variant. No new Terminators, no new Devastators, no new Centurions, Dreadnoughts, etc.
One of the bits that we got, photowise, had the standard Devastator kit being built with the new whatevers in the background.
Well we haven't hit "day one" yet, all we've seen is 3 or 4 blurry pics. And I wouldn't expect them all from day one anyway, I expect basic infantry dudes released over the course of a month or so and then maaaaybe new Terminators down the line and probably no new Centurions at all and maaaaaaybe new Dreadnoughts down the line.
We may not even get that, we may get a starter set with upsized Marines and then the new separate infantry kits further down the line.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I am really weirded out by the proportions. The top half looks like a standard marine but the bottom half looks like Terminator Legs, which makes their arms look really weedy and their legs into giant tree trunks.
That's precisely how many people convert their truescale marines, actually.
I've no idea why so many people think GW won't be redoing the SM line. There's a new edition coming out so SM's get redone. We've already seen new tactical and assault marines and they've been bumping up the height for a while now. Given the size of the Stormcast bigger marines were a case of when rather than if.
It's nice to see they've changed the knee pads and boots on the new armour. The old design had too many undercuts.
I was in my local GW today and the staffer was telling me about the new Edition and I asked about the new marines and he said "yeah, apparently it's some kind of new mark" so, take that with a pinch of salt I suppose.
Sweet, looks like I don't have to worry about giving GW money ever again. Since there is no way i'm replacing all the HH models I just bought. And any new models won't look right next to them.
Justyn wrote: Sweet, looks like I don't have to worry about giving GW money ever again. Since there is no way i'm replacing all the HH models I just bought. And any new models won't look right next to them.
Why would you do any of that? There were no giant marines in the HH.
Justyn wrote: Sweet, looks like I don't have to worry about giving GW money ever again. Since there is no way i'm replacing all the HH models I just bought. And any new models won't look right next to them.
I'm gonna guess you weren't playing 40k when the 2nd ed Rhinos got replaced.. but more recently Tau watched the Broadsides get supersized in a big way. At one point the Avatar of Kaine was barely taller than a standard Eldar. Bloodthirsters have come in a few different sizes and shapes. Biovores for Tyranids have been redesigned I think 3 times now.. as far as I can tell getting larger every time. My second edition and Gorkamorka Orks look puny next to their current incarnation. Land Speeders, War Bikes, Land Raiders, Necron Destroyers, Carnifexes, Terminators.. the list goes on. The point is.. things have been doing this all along, you've just not been paying attention until now.
As long as these are a new thing and not just 'we decided the marines didn't look big enough' i can deal with this. I'm not a fan, as it seems like a dumb idea but I will just politely ignore it.
If however it's just decided that marines just weren't big enough so 'let's make them bigger' I'll be seriously unimpressed (given that I've bought into both deathwatch and ksons, which are both less than a year old)
Sirius42 wrote: As long as these are a new thing and not just 'we decided the marines didn't look big enough' i can deal with this. I'm not a fan, as it seems like a dumb idea but I will just politely ignore it.
If however it's just decided that marines just weren't big enough so 'let's make them bigger' I'll be seriously unimpressed (given that I've bought into both deathwatch and ksons, which are both less than a year old)
The Deathwatch are already larger than normal marine, well the kill teams are anyway. I don't expect them to be any taller than those.
The only thing that would impress me with the numarines is, if GW decided to make them THE marines now scraping or fading out the current line. Simply because that would take some really big balls. But honestly, that I can't see happening
I'm gonna guess you weren't playing 40k when the 2nd ed Rhinos got replaced.. but more recently Tau watched the Broadsides get supersized in a big way. At one point the Avatar of Kaine was barely taller than a standard Eldar. Bloodthirsters have come in a few different sizes and shapes. Biovores for Tyranids have been redesigned I think 3 times now.. as far as I can tell getting larger every time. My second edition and Gorkamorka Orks look puny next to their current incarnation. Land Speeders, War Bikes, Land Raiders, Necron Destroyers, Carnifexes, Terminators.. the list goes on. The point is.. things have been doing this all along, you've just not been paying attention until now.
Oh I was. I didn't own any original Land Raiders, they look stupid. Only two original Rhinos. and none of those other armies. Also you are talking about for the most part them replacing very very old models. Not models released within the last year. If they were replacing models from 1997, I wouldn't be bothered at all.
An overview of rumors regarding the new Marines with the important bits from the last months - in order of appearance
Spoiler:
4chan
Hastings - Disqus
Chikout wrote:
Hastings has popped up on the war of sigmar blog saying there will be completely new imperial units made by guillemot and Cawl that will include new types of marines and will feature in a new starter set later this year.
…I’m not suggesting anything gets squatted. I said clearly focus will be on new marines rather than existing chapters, but existing chapters will still get releases.
I don’t get it, people are happy they’re moving the story/timeline on but don’t want anything to change, they want just their chapter to get new toys yet complain SM have too much, 40k players should think themselves lucky that they didn’t get the same treatment that WFB fans did with the destruction of the setting and large parts of models/armies. What’s the point of the hobby for Bret or tomb kings players?
I see new marines as a chance to have the best of both worlds, SM originals don’t get endless variants and units but are still in the fight, new marines are like a new army to build up from scratch pretty much, I’m sure they’d happily ally so don’t really see what the problem is.
…The answer to that is simply I don’t know. I was told they new marines are different to current marines, [...]
I really doubt the iconic space marine kit will be retired so I wouldn’t worry too much about them becoming outdated. I guess fluffwise it would be no different than older armour classes still being around in 40k, sure the new marines would be out there, but a lot of existing marines are still out there too.”
JSG wrote: I do love that people are pretending that every space marine army made after this release won't be solely comprised of numarines though. ;p
Highly doubtful that wll be the case. Heresy players aren't really going to make their marine armies using this new armour from 10,000 years in the future are they?
Also it is reasonable to assume that there will still be people who prefer the look of mk7 and beakies who won't go for the newer armour...
Oh yeah and BA and SW players (and possibly DA) wont really want to use it until versions come out with their own specific chapter decoration on.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Could they be the new faction, along with death guard. To represent the gullimans hand chosen or something
If they were hand-chosen elites they probably wouldn't be wearing 3rd Company trim, unless GW are planning to completely reorganise the Ultramarines. And wouldn't it be a hilarious, hideous irony if the Ultras become one of the least Codex-compliant chapters after all the Wardian guff from the 5th & 6th Ed codices
JSG wrote: I do love that people are pretending that every space marine army made after this release won't be solely comprised of numarines though. ;p
Highly doubtful that wll be the case. Heresy players aren't really going to make their marine armies using this new armour from 10,000 years in the future are they?
Also it is reasonable to assume that there will still be people who prefer the look of mk7 and beakies who won't go for the newer armour...
Oh yeah and BA and SW players (and possibly DA) wont really want to use it until versions come out with their own specific chapter decoration on.
I was actually wondering if this might also have the benefit (from GW's pov) of helping to differentiate 30k and 40k. As for your other points... We will see.
JSG wrote: I do love that people are pretending that every space marine army made after this release won't be solely comprised of numarines though. ;p
Highly doubtful that wll be the case. Heresy players aren't really going to make their marine armies using this new armour from 10,000 years in the future are they?
Also it is reasonable to assume that there will still be people who prefer the look of mk7 and beakies who won't go for the newer armour...
Oh yeah and BA and SW players (and possibly DA) wont really want to use it until versions come out with their own specific chapter decoration on.
I was actually wondering if this might also have the benefit (from GW's pov) of helping to differentiate 30k and 40k. As for your other points... We will see.
Yeah we will haha
This could actually lead to 3 distinct looks of space marine army -
Heresy 30k - marks 2 to 5 and a little bit of 6.
Pre-Gathering storm 40k - Mark 7 with a lot of 6 and a smattering of 4, 5 and 8
Post Gathering storm 41k - Mark 9 (or 10) new hotness
it's just the 'leaked' pic's Dakka looks different. Could simply be a new gun or a different one though.
. I won't even buy centurions because.......stupid.
. Those are jump pack guys on Flight Stands on the Skyshield Landing Pad.
