Newest Information in red below with an asterisk in front, use ctrl+F to search * for the most recently added information
Please make a new thread in General Discussion about Land Raiders Vs Lasguns, New Marines, individual faction discussion, and other individual topics, this is about News and Rumours
A special message from Rippy at the end of this post
June 3rd – mark your calendars folks, because that’s the day you’ll be able to pre-order your copy of the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. You’ll then be among the first to get your hands on it come release day on June 17th.
Incredible stuff! Here in the Warhammer Community Team, we think that the models alone make this the best Warhammer 40,000 box set ever made. Discussion has already begun about who’s buying two sets in order to bulk out their forces and, as is a time-honoured tradition, there are plenty of pledges of swapsies as the team vie to gain either more Space Marines or Death Guard.
And yet, Dark Imperium is really just the beginning. The launch lineup for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 is the most extensive we’ve had for any game we’ve ever released. So brace yourself, and let’s dive on in!
This is an awesome box set. Inside, you get two armies of brand new miniatures, the full hardback Warhammer 40,000 book, dice and range rulers. Even the outside is covered in gorgeous artwork, and the sight of all those goodies as you open the box for the first time is very satisfying… but a bit more on that later…
Fresh from the forges of Mars, and ready to bleed in defence of the Imperium, the Primaris Space Marines have come tooled for war. The bolt rifle-wielding Intercessors are the mainstay of the force. Alongside them march plasma-toting Hellblasters, providing deadly fire-support. And dropping in from orbit are Inceptors with the short range fury of their twin assault bolters.
Leading these new warriors are the champions of the Primaris Space Marines: the inspiring presence of the Lieutenants, the banner-carrying Ancients, and the commander of the force, a Captain clad in new Gravis armour.
The Death Guard are equally impressive. First up, a unit of Plague Marines. The archetypal unit of the XIV Legion swollen with the raw power of decay, these form of the core of any Death Guard force. Nurgle fans will also be pleased to see a shambling plague host represented by the repugnant and varied Poxwalkers, each draped in scraps of clothing from their former lives. There is a new vehicle on offer too – the Foetid Bloat-drone, a floating Daemon Engine that hunts its prey with a malign intelligence.
Rounding off the Death Guard are their own leaders, including a huge new Lord of Contagion, clad in warped Cataphractii Terminator plate and wielding one of the most brutal looking axes we’ve ever seen. Alongside him is the Noxious Blightbringer, a dark reflection of the noble Legion banner bearers of old, who carries a cursed plague bell that tolls with the death knell of his victims. Last but not least is the Malignant Plaguecaster – one of the pestilent sorcerers of this pox-ridden Legion.
A complete set of datasheets to field both these Death Guard and Primaris Space Marines armies are included in two separate booklets inside the box. You’ll also find a host of new background information on the two forces and on the Plague Wars being fought in Ultramar.
And of course, there’s the new Warhammer 40,000 book itself. This 280-page, hardback tome is included in the Dark Imperium box and is also available separately. This book is your guide to the new edition and contains an extensive exploration of the Warhammer 40,000 setting. This includes some pretty major advancements in the story for every faction in the galaxy, not least of which are the arrival of the Great Rift, the rise of Chaos, and the launching of the Indomitus Crusade.
And rules. Lots of rules. All the rules you need to wage the bloodiest of wars in the far future. Alongside the core rules for the game, there are missions, full guidelines for the 3 ways to play (open, narrative and matched) and advanced rules to represent the myriad war zones of the far future, including all the rules you need to play games of Cities of Death, Planetstrike, Stronghold Assault and Death from the Skies.
Rumored repulsive Repulsor stats on Faeit212 (apparently from "good sources" ) :
Power level 14
S7 T8 W13 Sv3+
Turret - Heavy Lascannon, Heavy Stubber
*Resolve shots with Heavy Stubber first, if the Heavy Lascannon targets a unit hit by the Stubber, it may reroll misses
Hull-mounted Twin Lascannon, swivels up/down and left/right
Rotor cannon is a pintle mounted upgrade
Missiles: Roll a D6 at the start of each fight phase for each enemy unit within 1", on a 4+ it takes D3 mortal wounds (slightly better Frag Assault Launchers)
Transport Capacity 7, can only transport Primaris Marines
Decays its Movement/BS/Attacks as it loses wounds
Movement 10" BS 3+ Attacks 3 base
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:Hi, I'm not sure if these got posted in your rumors thread (which moves too fast for me to keep up with) but over in the Ork Tactics thread some pictures of Ork stuff in English got leaked.
Aenar wrote: Nothing new for now, I will post here a collection of all the recent leaks I translated:
Adeptus Mechanicus: Forge Worlds keywords, Cawl has Mars keyword and buffs Mars FW units
Adeptus Mechanicus keyword is shared, Cult Mechanicus kw and Skitarii kw are present to differentiate. Bonuses target AM keyword
Canticles are chosen at the start of each Battle Round and last that much, cannot be chosen twice. Among the effects they allow for rerolling 1s to same FW kw units within 6"
Astra Militarum: Regiment keywords
Orders are given automatically to same Regiment keyword unit within 6"
Blood Angels: Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character
Eldars: Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0
Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump goves -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
Wraithknight W24 S8 R8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds
D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4
Banshees M8" A2 Save 4+. Always attack first with the mask, add 3" to Advance and Charge rolls, Exarch gives a -1 penalty to hit in melee to enemy models. Executioner Blade is WS-1 S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3
Inquisition, Grey Knights and Sisters: Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)
Sisters are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
Necrons: Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire Ap-2, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.
Orks: Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2
Space Marines: Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds
Storm Shields still provide 3+ Invuln save
ATSKNF rerolls failed Morale tests
Space Wolves: Thunderwolves Cavalry M10" W3 S4 T5 Save 3+, same equip as before and they cost nine melta bombs without equipments
Lord on Wolf has W7
Frost weapons add a mortal wound on a 6 (not clear on what dice roll)
Runic Armours give 5+ Invuln Save (4+ if Terminator).
Tau: (from ATT also)
Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds on a to-wound roll of 6
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 penalty to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12"
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors
Crisis Suits minimum squad size is 3
Tyranids: Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb
Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 fleshborer Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them) OR re-add fleshborer Termagaunt models to an existing unit
I'll try to add anything new in a few hours. I'll write here again that I am not the one with the Indices but I am translating the leaks as best as I can. I may do some mistakes and the leaks may not be accurate at 100%, but until we get some pictures it is all we have.
Bless you all!
Twitter/Facebook posts (let me know if you want any added)
"Grand Alliance" question:
Spoiler:
Summoning:
Spoiler:
Fight Phase hint:
Spoiler:
Unwieldy weapons hint:
Spoiler:
Nightlord1987 wrote: Some FB comments already asked if P. Fists and T. hammers are unwieldy, and GW says they will reveal soon for using such "cumbersome heavy" weapons. So there must still be some sort of penalty.
Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Make it 100%... models cannot advance and charge. unless they have some rule giving them an exception to that.
Warhammer 40,000 wrote:There is a standard 1" range of weapons, but with the 3" pile in before you attack, just about every model should be able to fight.
Early on Facebook questions: Credit to Ragnar Blackmane
Q: Will there be faction-exclusive detachments in addition to the general ones, though?
A:Hey Yannik- well, we haven't seen any yet if there are. That would be pretty cool, though!
Q:Currently focused on building a Night Lords detachment using the Raptor Talon formation and a formation of Fallen.
A: Hey Schuyler - you will absolutely be able to use your army, all is good. The Chaos Marines and Fallen will have rules on release, so you can happily use your force. (Also Knights still in).
A: Hey Anon; There will be a Cult focus article on the way soon, so hold out for that!
A: Ha! We love memes! But we cannot leak stuff before it's announced... kinda the point of announcements! Good try, though...
A: Hey Alex- no need to worry at all. You will 100% be able to use your Custodes in the new edition.
A:Hey Mindy - remember, these are just 3 of the 9 detachments, so it doesn't 'mean' anything! Suffice to say, you will 100% be able to use your Harlequin army in the new edition.
A:Will, it's all good dude - Deathwing armies are very much a thing and totally playable.
A: Turn that frown upside down, John.... Dark Eldar are soul-stealing murderous gits in the new edition... trust us!
Q: Do you still pay for dedicated transports or is it free? Not clear in the article.
A: Hey Mark; This is all about the organisation of the unit, not about points as such. No points are mentioned anywhere here, so it's safe to assume you pay points for things if you are in a matched play game.
A: Guys, it's all good- we are not about to take to take away models or not let you use your armies. We can 100% guaruntee you can use any models you can use now in the new edition.
Q: What happens with armies with no HQ? (Harlequins)
A: Hey Carlos - well, we haven't got that information yet... but you will definitely be able to use a pure Harlequins army in the new rules.
A: There are 12 game-wide detachments in the new rules. If there are any more, we haven't seen anything about them yet...
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #1 Credit to ClockworkZion
Little Guys update: Q: Hmm, I've always run my guard squads with lasguns only and kept tthe heavy weapons in seperate heavy weapons squads to not waste shots firing lasguns at tanks and so forth, looks like I might be putting the heavy weapons behind some meatshields, I mean squadmates, again.
A:It's a short but merry* life in the Imperial Guard! Heroism guaranteed**!
*Merriness not confirmed.
** Your experiences may differ.
Q: Dose this mean that each weapon type effectively has split fire or is it for the entire squad? Ie, can I fire 4 Lasguns at one unit and another 4 at another.
A: You can indeed! It's done by models, not by weapon type.
Q: Are we getting anymore faction updates? Yesterday's chaos space marines left me hungry for more
A: We we will indeed see more, Astra Militarum next!
Q: I guess with most vehicles having armour saves which won't really be affected by small arms fire, they should survive.
But isn't there a chance that poisened weapons will ignore that table?
Or that someone tripe firing lasguns could easily roll enough 6's to take out a dreadnought in one volley?
A: I mean.... you have to fire a a lot of lasguns to do it! I just had a game at lunchtime today.. a Tactical Squad firing at a Rhinofor three turns barely scratched it....
Q: Woah, does that mean Strength 7 only wounds T4 on a 3+ instead of 2+?
A: That's right. Conversely, S: 4 now wounds anything up to T:7 on just a 5+...
Q: Will FW chapters be in the update?
A: Indeed, yes, FW have committed to getting rules out for all of their Warhammer 40,000 models on launch.
Q: Little guys? Squats confirmed?!?
A: Haha! Not *that* little, I'm afraid!
Q: So a plasmagun wounds a marine on a 3+? Do I get that right?
A: That's right... but now a bolt gun wounds Toughness 7 on a 5+...
Big Models: Q: The Hivemind thanks you New Games Workshop! Best news yet!
A: Thanks, Hivemind!
Say, what's this bug on the back of my he...... WE LOVE THE HIVEMIND.
Q: Is there any plans for GW to release an easy to use countdown wound counter? It's now usable for AoS and 40k. They could be sold in different sizes for each model level. 0-10, 10-20, 20+
A: We do indeed! Check these out: https://www.games-workshop.com/Citadel-Wound-Trackers
Q: How will that work for Vehicles that had such differences in AV? E.g. a Leman Russ being 14 front 10 rear. Is the squishy rear no longer reflected?
A: Hey Thomas- Tanks have one Toughness value and wound count, just like other large models.
Q: The real question is will I be able to take an army of flayed ones?
A: Absolutely, yes! What a terrifying army that would be...!
Warzone Cadia: Q: Will there be an article about what is the new situation of Fenris, after the whole war with Magnus, the great losses of Fenrisians lives (due to both Chaos and the Inquisition) and the fact that now they are almost in the middle of the Rift?
A: Hey Giacomo- There very well could be. Keep your eye on this page!
Q: Is there actually anything left of Cadia to reclaim? I thought the planet blew up.
A: Hey Kevin - it didn't blow up as such... there is still a planet left...not much of it, but it still stands!
Q: What will happen with the Apocalypse? Will it be playable in 8th, or will you release a new rulebook?
A: Hey Pablo; great to hear you enjoy Apocalypse! What we know right now is that current expansions and the like will not be compatible with the new edition of the game. We're very early days at the moment, so we haven't released any information about specific rules sets in the new edition. Watch this space on what's coming in the future!
Q: Didn't the planet explode?
A: Hey Richard - the smoking remains of Cadia still stand!
Chaos Marine Focus: Q: I think we all want to know if the original Traitor Legions will have their specific personality, rules and play styles that were partially restored by the Traitor Legions supplement, or if we will be back to "Generic Chaos" at launch.
A: Hey guys - the Traitor Legions will indeed be getting rules to distinguish them from each other. More news on what that looks like in the future.
Q: It's like christmas in.. May? when is the next faction focus article? Will it be Tyranids? If not, why would you anger the great devourer so?
FUTHER Q IN RESPONSE TO OTHER POSTERS: All they have to say is "you can use something other than flying hive tyrant and have fun"
A: You can indeed use something other than the flying hive tyrant and have an absolute bawl!
EDIT: errr, of course, we mean "ball", of course! There will be no bawling, we promise!
Q: Warhammer 40,000 - its been suggested that I ask if my Imperial Knights will be viable and able to be used in "Matched Play" since implying that I want to be able to do so is not clear enough. Basically I'm not going to play "Open play" and I won't play "narrative play" very often, all I will play 99% of the time is "matched play" as I normally play at tournaments. So again the question is will I be able to use an entire army of imperial knights in matched play? Also since Deathwing was completely screwed in the last Dark Angel Codex, (which invalidated how I used to run them as a pure Deathwing army), can I please ask again, will I be able to dust them off from their 2 year imprisonment in boxes and run them in matched play as a pure Deathwing Army once again?
A: Hey Matt - pretty sure we've answered this elsewhere too... but yes! Knights and Deathwing will be a viable matched play army in the new edition.
Q: Thank goodness for that; I'm getting tired of playing the good guys! I can finally play my Ultramarines the way they were intended Fingers crossed for new CSM models too, or at least a conversion kit for use with Calth and Prospero squads.
A: Are you suggesting the Ultramarines are the bad guys?! I demand satisfaction, sir! *slaps face with glove*
Q: What about the forge world special minotaurs models? Like Asterion Moloc will he have rules?
A: Hey Murray - a good question, sir! Well, Forge World have said that every model we sell right now will be getting rules. Moloc is on sale right now... so look out for new rules for him incoming!
Q: I'd rather know if my full imperial knight army will be able to be used as an army in the new edition without being unbound or if my all Deathwing army will be useable also without being unbound (or without being whatever the new unbound is)...
A: Hey Matt - absolutely,- both Knights and Deathwing will 100% be able to be used in the new edition. No armies are being made obsolete.
Q: Will Chaos Marines finally gain access to drop pods?
A: Hey Lee - that's a great question. On release, we will be covering all of the models we currently see, which means, no, there will not be a Chaos Space Marine Drop Pod. But who knows what the future brings! Keep your eye on this page for all the latest news on releases.
Q: Or you could just release 8th edition already....
A: Hey Andrew - the release date is set, but we thought we would let you guys know what's going on in advance, so you can get prepared for the release. As such, when the new game drops, it's not a huge surprise, or a load of information is having to be taken in at once.
Q: So what about us legions?
A: Hey Nathan; The Traitor Legions will have rules that distinguish themselves from each other, so your identity as a Legion is not lost. More on that coming later!
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #2 and 3
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Characters Q: > Guilliman standing further away than a single guardsman.
> Enemy cannot target the huge dude that towers over vehicles, because single Guardsman is closer.
Makes sense.
A: If your army can't kill that one Guardsman first, what exactly were you going to shoot at Guilliman that was going to worry him?
Q: So how about tanky IC's, will they be able to soak fire in lieu of their units still? Or can you bypass an IC to shoot up a unit behind them?
A: Nope.
If you want something "tanky" in Warhammer 40,000, you should put your units in a tank.
No more independent characters magically intercepting an entire armies shooting on their tiny stormshield.
Q: to avoid indipendent character to join a nearby unit it's an idiocy... a very bad rules and poor design. my character should led his comrades to the victory fighting in first line, and not hiding himself behind his comrades to avoid being targeted from enemy fire. very poor decision gw... there are countless sistem to avoid death star and this is the worst. welcome to the era of coward heroes in 41k millenium
A: Hey Gisberto,
We suggest you give it a try first. It really does work. Even in the current rules these heroes tend to deploy at the back of units.
In the new Warhammer 40,000, we tend to find characters used to accompanying units, advancing alongside the main battleline, possibly flanked on either side by squads, which looks great on the tabletop.
Q: Does that mean a Commissar can stiffen the backs of more than one unit of glorious Astra Militarum!? The Commissar union will have them on strike after this blatant downsizing and cost cutting venture from Terra!
A: We're pretty sure that going on strike is against the Commissariat guidelines.
Q: Will there be weapon types such as the sniper rifle that will avoid the closest target rule and be able to pick out characters?
A: Wouldn't that be something...
Q: I like this!! I am just wondering how the wording will be for the command benefits from some characters. I can see people trying to fin the loop hole and mix matching characters around a unit to beef them up with out having the characters join the unit.
I am hopeful the just canceled the deathstars for the most part!!!
A: Hey Allan,
It's certainly still beneficial to have your units accompanied by Characters, but the days of units benefitting from special abilities from heroes outside their faction is gone, and generally, it is harder to keep both the unit, and character totally safe from harm, which has been an issue in the past.
Q: How will this effect deployment in transports like drop pod lists etc? Will the character need to buy a pod for himself or can he still hitch a ride with another squad and separate once he's landed?
A: Hey Kevin,
Good question. We'll be looking at transports in detail in an article soon.
Q: Warhammer 40,000 but there's still a big part of characters I'm dying to know...challenges! Do challenges still exist for characters? Or is that gone from this edition?
A: Hey Clinton,
challenge rules are gone from the fight phase, but the restriction on hitting lone characters is only in the shooting phase, so expect to still see mighty heroes taking chunks out of each other in the fight phase.
Q: I'm intrigued as this would appear to mean no more command squads/ honored guards etc but you've also stated that everything will still be usable. Any clues how this is going to work?
A: Why would that mean you can't have Command Squads? You can totally still have Command Squads.
Q: Girlyman is just too shy so he hide behind his smurfs while my man, Magnus who is a sorcerer need to fight like a man. Good job!
A: Also, he's as big as a house.
You ever tried to hide a flying red cyclops the size of a house? Not so easy.
Q: The shooting rule makes sense since there would have been a wall of rage over hero's being sniped.
Is magic similarly effected or can characters still be sniped with long range psyker spells?
Any chance of getting this in AoS? Would be awesome to protect my Savage Maniak Weirdnobs as they move up behind boarboys
A: We saw already that "Smite" (your default killy-power) targets the closest unit only. Some other powers might be different though.
Q: Greatly disliking this change- now my Company Master can't join up with his COMMAND SQUAD, and is essentially reduced to just a passive buff-bot following his troops around and leading from the rear. There must have been a better way to fix deathstars, like more accurate point costs, or doing away with allies or something.
A: Hey Peter, There is nothing stopping you having your commander advance to battle with his Command Squad.
Q: What about when characters are in combat? Can they be targeted if they are the closest model? (e.g. A tactical square with a chaplain is charged by a unit of assault terminators. If one of the terminators is "base to base" with the chaplain, can he be targeted by that terminator?)
A: Indeed, you can't hide in Melee.
Q: Really disappointed with this, though at least it seems to only apply to independent characters.
I get why but yet again it feels like a sledgehammer approach over a scalpel.
Yeah,Guilliman will be fine with his crazy stats or the Chaplin type hero where they have good T and armour stat along with an inv save and the wargear options to make them good at close range shooting and cc but what about the ones that don't?.
Guard commissars and colonels,pretty much every type of Eldar,Dark eldar and quin character, necron cryptek and mini lords etc.
It's ok being "safe " when outside 12" or behind a unit but many races have podding unit's or deep strike capable of getting in that range easily,or flyers that are quick enough to get behind them. With many of those "support " characters having only a 4/5 save before modifiers they feel horribly exposed.
I know we haven't seen full rules yet but that feels so unbalanced towards Sm level hqs who were the worst offenders for deathstars
A: Hey Kaibong,
Jeremy's right about being able to hide a little either in, or between units. Also, we've yet to cover how things like Drop Pods work in the new game (we will, don't worry.)
In practice, all armies will have ways to protect their characters.
Q: please reconsider this change. I fully understand nerfing death stars, but banning chericters from joining any unit is one of the worst rules in aos and has no place in 40k. it would have been much better to limit chericters to joining units of their own faction. i was really looking forward to 8th, but this has just killed all of my enthusiasm for it. I guess I'll stick to 7th and hope you reverse this terrible decision with 9th ed.
A: Hey Andrew,
Thanks for your thoughts.
It is still pretty hard to kill a character with shooting here - they have to be the closest model to be targeted, unlike in Warhammer Age of Sigmar. So you still find characters advancing into battle alongside their squads, much as many of them do today. What's been removed, are the more extreme examples of multiple-character mega-units.
Q: So with area effects, why can't you just keep 3+ hqs huddled together behind an infantry blog or two, keeping them alive and adding cumulative buffs (possibly to each other)?
A: Hey Aaron,
Lots of reasons - like getting all those units dragged into a combat with a single unit, and not being able to shoot next turn. Or being so packed together, you can't take objectives easily.
Q: Will currently legal conversions such as Chaos Lords on Bikes or jump pack sorcerers that do not have current models still have rules in 8th?
Also will characters be able to jump in with a squad in there dedicated transport (if there's room)?
A: Hey Tim,
Good questions.
We're well aware loads of you out there have converted up characters for your armies with the current options - you'll be glad to hear that both of those units you mentioned are covered in the new rules.
We'll deal with transport units in an article soon.
Q: So Magnus can be shot on while girlyman the immortal can't. Makes sense. Also in a 1v1 girlyman best Magnus with his crazy sword and resurrection steroids
A: Hey Kim,
Both brothers get new rules in the new edition - who's to say that's even the case anymore?
Magnus is going to do just fine, don't worry.
Q: So are Tyrant Guard obsolete? Or are they possibly an upgrade option for a Hive Tyrant? Not like they could ever join any other kind of unit anyway...
A: Hey Robert,
Like all Warhammer 40,000 units, Tyrant Guard will get new rules, including some that might just help them keep the big guy alive if he's nearby...
Q: How will this affect the hive tyrant when he has tyrant guard that are suppose to take wounds for him?
A: Hey Jonathan,All units, including Tyranids get new rules to go along with this new edition. They will work as you imagine they should, don't worry.
Q: Really curious how Astra Militarum Command Squad will work? Should I be building up some Flag Sergeant to lead them?
A: Hey Bradley,
Good question - we know there are a lot of questions raised here.
We'll have more on specific units in articles soon, don't worry.
Q: So how does models that grant FNP work? Does FNP even exist outside of AoS Nurgle Demons any more?
A: Hey Ryan,
Good question.
Every single model has new rules in the new edition, so don't assume your character's rules will work in the same way. It may well be a bonus to certain units within range to make them more durable.
Q: How will this work with units that are "meant" to accompany an HQ? Like the Court of the Archon or Tyrant Guard?
A: Hey John,
They can totally still accompany them to battle.
All will get new rules, some to help protect their character, others will further bolster the units around them.
Q: So i built and painted my blood angel honour guard for nothing? Cheers guys.
A: Hey Christopher,
You can absolutely use your Blood Angels Honour Guard in the new edition. Why would you not be able to?
Q: Wait, are Kroot Shapers now an HQ? Are there even HQ in this edition anymore? As a Kroot Fanatic I must know.
A: Hey Hunter,
HQ's are certainly still a thing, but there are plenty of Characters aren't HQ's. The Kroot Shaper is one of these.
Q: So shadowsun cant have stealthsuit bodyguards anymore?? Her bloody rules revolved around that!!
A: Maybe she has new rules.
(She totally has new rules.)
Q: How will Drop pods work? Can they carry multiple units or do you need a separate drop pod for the character?
A: Hey Paul,
thanks for the question.
We'll cover transports in detail soon, don't worry.
Q: this will be a great change IF you can put multiple units in transports. otherwise characters will be stranded
A: Hey Jonathan,
Glad you like the changes.
We'll cover transport vehicles in detail in an article soon.
Q: will techpriest engineseers still have attached servitors? how will commissars and priests work. actually i like the idea of a comissar scaring ever unit around him into holding the line and him pulling the trigger at any unit that fails
A: Hey Lilia,
We like that image too!
You'll have to wait a little longer for full details on each unit's exact rules though.
Q: What happens to command squads now?
A: Hey Robert,
Command Squads work as they always have - a great unit to accompany your commander to battle.
All will get new rules, some to help protect their character, others will further bolster the units around them.
Q: So no more command squads?
A: There are absolutely still Command Squads.
Astra Militarum Imperial Guard Focus Q: When can we expect a Dark Eldar preview? Need to know how my favourite pointy eared friends will play
A: we'll have a Dark Eldar preview soon - we're going to run through all the factions.
Q: Can the chaos article be rewritten to include some juicy details as well?
A: Ace. The Chaos article was a little light compared to this one on the juicy details, so we'll use Rubric Marines when we look at Datasheets later in the week. How's that?
Q: Automatic win with Sly Marbo now, right?
A: we think it's a 2+ with re-roll.
Q: I wouldnt call a las gun trusty
A: That is why it fails you.
b]Q:[/b] MUCH better than the pointless Chaos article, though could still do with rule tidbits rather than just HYPE for the first half!
A: But you guys love hype...
Q: Go back to calling them Imperial Guard. Please. What's funny is that even the writer had a freudian slip near the end and called them guard.
A: Call them the Guard if you like. It's just the High Gothic name for them, like Space Marines being called Adeptus Astartes. The infantry are still called Guardsmen after all.
Q: Will there be articles like this for all the factions of the game, even minor ones like the Harlequins?
A: Yes and yes.
Q: Is every vehicle going to have a 3+ save or is this just a coincidence?
A: Hey Stuart,
They certainly don't all have a 3+ save.
Q: GET ON THE HYPE TRAIN FOR ROUGH RIDERS
A: The Hype Cart, surely.
Q: please show some love for nids
A: Tyranids, being an intergalactic galaxy-eating predator, are incapable of love, and feel only hunger...
(But we will have an article on them soon, if that's what you mean.)
Weapons Part 2: Dakka Boogaloo Q: I love the new template-less world of 40k. No more worrying about spacing everyone out because they all get hit the same anyway now. Though the term Pie Plate of Doom will be missed
A: The Pie and the Mega-Pie will live on in our hearts.
Q: Looking through the comments, It's incredible how blatantly communicated information can be misinterpreted so easily. I don't envy whoever has to answer the same question about twinlinked heavy bolters over and over again.
I'm scared to see what the Spartan assault tank can do now that God hammer landraiders get 4 lascannon shots. Not to mention the other insane arms forgeworld models have access too. Gonna be a lot of info to process on day 1. very excited none the less.
A: Answering the same question over and over again in new and exciting ways is pretty much half our life...!
Q: How much does this "heavy d6" weigh? Does this mean I cant my old plastic dice?
A: HAHA! Best comment of the day....
Q: From the bottom of my humble imperial guardsmen heart, thank you, just thank you gw ❤ Now back to the frontline, those filthy traitors won't die by themselves!
A: *sheds a tear of Imperial pride*
Q: I'm really looking forward for the new 40k.
but when do we see some close combat weapons and rules?
A: Real soon! There is a focus article on the way for melee weapons.
Q: So a number of guns got even better. Is there no love for melee weapons?
As an asside at some point will there be an article discussing how (or possibly if at all) Shooting and Melee have been balanced against one another because at the moment from what has been shown the already dominant shooting phase seems to have gained even more and the major weakness of melee, namely getting into melee before being shot to peices, has not really been addressed?
A: We haven't seen many melee weapons yet, but trust us when we say some of them are.. well...rancid. Just wait until you see what Kharn the Betrayer's axe does...
It's...graphic.
Q: So just to make sure he difference now between a Stormbolter and a Twin-linked bolted is that at long range they both fire 2 shots and at half range the two linked has 4 and the stormbolter is an assault weapon?
Spelling mistakes fixed- Storm Bolger, twin linked bolted
A: Hey Samuel - we haven't seen the stats for a stormbolter yet! We reckon they will do oh, so many shots...
Q: I am a bit confused on the big guns. Do multiple wounds spill over to other troopers? If not a battlecannons looks underwhelming due to rng?
I have to look at the point cost of a leman russ and its option to have a clear picture i think
A: No, they don't spill over. If Trooper Jenkins takes 6 wounds, he dies real bad. He doesn't die so hard that 5 of his mates die from sympathy pains...
Q: Will weapons with multiple damage (such as D6) cause wounds the same way Destroyer weapons currently do, ie if a model in a unit is hit, and the model dies, any excess wounds won't be carried over?
A: Hey Tara-. A weapon hits a target and saves are made. For each save failed, the model that failed the save takes the damage indicated. That means, against a Battle Cannon, D6 models will take D3 wounds each. That could be D6 really, really dead Chaos Cultists. It DOESN'T mean possibly 18 dead Cultists.
Q: Another big up for shooting armies...I see why now the game is fast paced. Everything will die very fast, i do not believe that we will see a lot of things coming in melee tho for now.
A: Assault isn't toast at all, guys... hang on for the melee weapons focus coming soon...
Q: Quick question on the Damage characteristic. Does a damage characteristic of 3 kill 3 one wound models? Or does it inflict 3 wounds to a single model that don't carry over to other models in the unit?
A: It does 3 wounds to one model. No carrying over onto other members of the unit.
Q: Wow! Looks intense! Double shots for Twin-Linked weapons at half range? That is pretty crazy! The twin linked heavy bolter says its Heavy 6, so it gets 12 shots at Half range? Wow!
A: Have a look again, Horton! The profile is for a twin linked Heavy Bolter. Standard is 3 shots, twin linked is 6, at all ranges.
Q: Will there be positive AP modifiers? For example would an AP 6 weapon in 7th edition concert into AP +1 in 8th one?
A: Not that we have seen yet, no.
Q: I'm really liking what I'm hearing so far. Can't wait for the new edition!! When?? When?? When??
A: Real soon....
Q: So is the new twin linked heavy bolter up to 6 shots, 12 at 18"?
A: Hey Matt - nope - it's heavy 3 for a standard gun, and heavy 6 for the twin-linked gun. It's range makes no difference on how many shots it gets.
Q: May I please ask what is the difference between rapid fire and twin-linked for 8th edition?
A: Hey Lian - sure thing. Rapid fire lets you double your shots at half range. Twin-linked gives you double shots at all ranges. Range makes no difference to twin-linked shots.
Q: Does this mean my Elysian Vulture now shoot 40 shots?! :O *drops jaw*
A: If a Punisher cannonstill has 20 shots... then..yes!
Q: Thats 6 shots at half range yes? Not 6 shots in total and 12 shots at half range.
A: It's 6 shots in total. This is not a rapid fire weapons, so no doubling the number on the profile as you do with rapid-fire.
Q: Battle Cannon is A1 steak sauce! Question I have now is: Will vehicles have the ability to target multiple units? Example: Leman Russ Battle Tank fires Battle Cannon at big Tyranid monster, fire the Heavy Bolters at the Genestealers.
A: Haha! Actually made us laugh, this!
EDIT: Tanks can split their weapons fire between different targets.
Q: So...Battlecannon has Heavy D6...does this mean up to 6 shots or up to 6 Auto-Hits like the Flamer...?
A: It's a random number of hits. If it was always 6 hits, it would be Heavy 6.
Q: Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.
A: That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....
Q: Question from yesterday, did all that apply to sgts?
A: No - Sgts are part of the unit.
Q: Wow, that means a lot of dakka!
A: It reeeeally is!
Q: What is Gauss going to do for Necrons? Tesla?
A: Wait for the Necron Faction Focus....
Q: Wow! Now a Land Raider Crusader can do 18 shoots
A: We count 24 on the twin-linked boltguns at half range...
Q: What about plasma pistols ?
A: They get so, so good.... just you wait and see!
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #5
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Facebook Q&A round-up for May 11th, 2017:
Datasheets Q: Warhammer 40,000 How many of you man this page? Or is did some poor guardsmen just get locked up in a room to field the unending wave of questions?
A: Just one of us... One soul standing against the tide. Much like Sly Marbo, but somewhat less heroic and chiseled.
Q: Warhammer 40,000 hey can we have the slightest hint of necron stuff in the next teaser please? the red harvest must begin!
A: *This message has been formatted so only true Necrontyr can read it.
Q: Hey guys @Warhammer 40,000, would you consider doing deep strike rules preview ?
A: We can consider it...
Q: You guys are savage and have no chill when it comes to absolutely destroying people, how can I become a member of the community team?
A: You should have seen the quadra-savage reply we typed out... but then thought better of it...!
Q: will weapons have point value's?
also if an aspiring sorcerer can move 6" and the rest of hits unit can move 5" doesn't that mean the sorcerer can only move 5"?
A: It means he can move slightly faster, so long as he stays with his unit.
Q: Give me the new protocols for my Necron minions or you will be harvested.
A: Errrr.....sure thing! We'll get right on it!
Q: Hey GW, will you release a datasheet for khorne berzerkers anytime soon?? (Hopefully before 8th hits) Ever since the CSM faction focus, i am super hyped to see what you have in mind with those lobotomised nutjobs
A: We haven't released anything yet.... but by Jimminy.... they are just as good in combat as you hope them to be....
Q: Well.. definitely will take some getting used too. I do like the effort to balance out the game.
A: It's just not the same without your Marbo memes.
Q: Love all the articles! We would love you to throw us a little more Xenos examples. We have heard a ton about the factions of Man, and just a splash about Orks. Can we please have more splashs of Xenos? <3
A: We like splashing Xenos.... all over the wall with a boltgun.
More Xenos bits on the way REAL soon...
Q: I have only one burning question for 8th -
Will Shadow Captain Shrike's new datasheet reflect his ascension to Chapter Master of the Raven Guard?
A: If that's your only question, we're doing something right. Not sure on that specific detail right now - we will have wait for the rules to appear.
Q: So given that the Rubric Marines have no special ability that allows them to charge after using Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons in the shooting phase, am I correct to assume all units can do that now?
A: Assumptions are a dangerous thing, Oliver...!
Q: That is a seriously better format than how it was handled in the past, very well done.
BUT, are the point costs cropped out of the datasheet or are there going to be multiple versions? Might get bloaty..
A: No bloaty-ness here. Loads more on points coming tomorrow.
Q: I didn't get to post this in time yesterday to be relevant but here we go. First, I'd like to say the new rules are cool. But, I do have a concern. As a chaos player who favors his dinobots and dragons, I'm concerned that the weapon loadouts for the forgefiends (2 hadesautocannons and plasma cannon at +25pts) and heldrakes (with either a baleflamer, whos profile no longer works in 8th, or a single hadesautocannon) were somewhat wanting for the 175 point costs but now units that are cheaper with more weapon sets and/or twinlinked weapons will not only be better (as they kinda were with upgrade capabilities) but completely outshine them or render them useless?
A: Fair comment, James. Chances are that our exstensive group of playtesters will have looked at this and a new, appropriate points value assigned. We aren't just about to change how good a model is without changing it's points value.
Q: Hello new(tm) games workshop, i'd like to ask a badly worded question about whether you'll answer this question and if you do do so will this question be answered? Also if you're doing an article on points values could you tell us how many points my personal favourite, the haruspex, will cost. (How can you not love that face?)
A: Hello, Peter - we'd like to provide a suitably vague yet teasing response about being more than happy to answer your question.
The Haruspex definitely has a points value, but we haven't revealed it yet. As such,we can't mention it yet, despite your obviously adorable face.
Q: This all looks great!!! *Oliver Twist-style pleading request* Adeptus sororitas faction feature/teaser?? cough cough 'obligatory plastic sisters comment' cough cough
A: The Faction Focus article is on it's way for sure.
Q: Love the articles!
Can we expect to see some info on the inquisition? Really want to know how they will be in 8th, like are they a full force on their own, or are they more of an add-on to other armies?
A: Indeed - there will be a focus article on the Imperial Agents for sure.
Q: I assume that point costs is kept separate from unit profiles in order to facilitate easier updates in the future, without invalidating the entire book, or are points supposed to be kept completely outside the codices, in a dedicated book?
A: Assuming is a dangerous past time, Marcin! Check out tomorrow's article on points for more.
Q: On the data sheet it doesn't say what an icon of flame does (unless I missed it), will there be a section of banners and such that all armies have access to?
A: Maybe! It wouldn't be a teaser if we just flat our told you everything, now would it?!
Q: I feel like the page is very busy. And I'm curious about the power rating.... Are the matched play points cost going to be a big list like in AoS's General's Handbook?
A: You will find out loads more in tomorrow's points article.
Q: Nice. So much info on one sheet. Loving it.
First look at melee weapons too. No range - so who gets to fight in cc?
A: More on that real soon.
Q: Will there be a points version of these data sheets for more balanced games?
A: Sounds like you need to tune in to tomorrow's article all about points!
Q: Nice. So the aspiring champion only knows smite? Or will there be another table / sheet for what powers he has access to ?
A: We haven't covered that yet; more on psychic powers coming later.
Q: But GW, where oh where will the points values be listed for matched play?
A: There's every chance that will be covered by tomorrow's "points and power levels" article...
Q: DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION ALERT
I'm assuming that psychic powers will be assigned from a book via keyword as I see no other reference there?
A: DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION DETECTED
Fear not, Assumptee... loads more information will be coming. Enlightenment is coming to these dark times.
Q: the lack of points scares the bejesus out of me... and i'm still not happy about losing templates!... going to need a lot more detail before i'm sold
A: What up, Leigh; Guildford represent! Points are still a thing, my fellow Baboon Samurai. Watch out for more on those tomorrow in the "points and power level" article.
Q: Power ranking besides points? Ohhh no.... "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up!"
A: There will be both! Tune in to the article all about points tomorrow.
Q: Rubrics! Huzzah! I have to wonder... what does the Icon of Flame do...?
A: Looks like you'll have to wait to find out that one!
Q: Awesome job! Any chance you'll go over the difference between Force weapons & Power weapons in a future article?
A: Of course we can. More articles planned in the future about melee weapons.
Q: Will these sheets be available in cards similar to Psychic Power cards?
A: No news on that right now. .
Q: What exactly is power rating? Is it the same thing as power level that you wrote later in the article?
A: All will be covered in tomorrow's article, fear not.
Q: If the Matched play points aren't going to be on the sheets where will they be? Will we need another book to view these?
A: Tune in tomorrow for the points and power level article and all will be revealed...
Q: Will there be another Datasheet for competitive game?
A: If you mean a points value, then looks like you need to tune into tomorrow's article entitled "points and power levels"....
Q: You tell us what... Death to the False Emperor does? **cheeky grin
A: Not yet...
Q: Will we have a look at the real points system before the release ?
A: Hey Quentin - sure thing - watch out tomorrow for an article all about points.
Q: Great article!!! Will you make an article about Renegades ?
A: You mean the Forge World models? We are focusing on the main Citadel factions for the articles.
Q: I thought invulnerable saves were gone?
A: Not at all - they are right there!
Q: Great stuff but why not call them "dataslates"
A: ...because they are on a sheet. We wanted to put them on slate but it made the rules too heavy...
Q: Can we get a look at Ork boyz?? Please!!
A: There are literally hundreds of units in the game and we wish we had the time to sho...*SMACK*.
"Give us da roolz,you puny 'umie! Don't make 'im ask again else I'll krump yer good"
Eldar Faction Focus Q: If you say Banshees will be one of the fastest troops in the game then i really wonder what you guys have in store for Harlequins!
Can i expect my fellow clowns to be at the same speed or even faster?!
A: We shall but see!
Q: Are we going to be seeing Aspect Warriors in plastic any time soon, or are we still going to be relegated to Finecast?
A: We have no news on models right now, Andrew - if we ever do hear anything, you will see it here first!
Q: Wait, didn't Fulgrim kill an Avatar by putting it in a headlock and strangling it to death? If so, Guilliman shouldn't fear anything.
A: Besides... Guillian kills three Avatars every day before breakfast. For fun. With a butter knife.
Or so we heard.
Q: You guys better release a skitarii or cult mech (or maybe both) faction focus or the might of the Omnissiah shall make all your computer's unbearably slow.
A: We were wondering why the internet was dropping like a Guardsman in a trench. Now we know.
Q: I'm hoping the Wraithseer will get a datasheet and awesome rules.
A: Guys -with models like that, we are not sure about what is coming yet as FW haven't released information on their rules. As soon as we have it, we will be able to let you know.
Q: When we will have some love for the Custodian Guard?
Soon™, Really Soon™...?
And also, will we have this articles until release? Or will they continue after 8th is available?
A: There will indeed be some more articles coming Real, Real Soon!™
Q: I think Warhammer 40,000 is holding off on the Ork faction preview trying to build up the Waaagh...
A: Savin' da best fer later!
Q: Isn't Reece Robbins the Frontline gaming guy with them awesome Youtube batrep videos?
A: It is indeed him. He has the coolest voice!
Q: This information is completely wrong ... please see the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer for correct info on the Eldar. If you see anyone reading this info please report them to your Commisar!
A: That's how you get promoted around here, trooper!
Q1: Any chance of seeing a Necron profile soon?
A1: You mean.... like this? Q2: Oh...
Games Workshop.
A2: I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "These guys are better than that, right?!".
But we're not. If there is a pun to be had, we will take it.
Q: Will Ynnari remain or have that army just been discarded?
A: You will 100% be able to use that army.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #6
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Have some more Facebook Q&A stuffs!
Points and Power Q: Essentially 8th edition means no more free stuff. You want that daemon, you are paying for that daemon. I love it. I also notice that GW isn't trying to have games with fewer models, but rather have more dynamic things happen to models more quickly to keep play to 2 hours. It's a pretty sly move to make sure model sales stay high. I see it being a successful strategy. If I can play 3000pts in 3 hours, I'd better buy a few new tanks...
A: "You want that Demon? You gotta pay for that demon". I want that on a T-shirt.
Q: Seems reasonable enough. STOP BEING SO REASONABLE, HOW ARE PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS?
A: Ed, we profusely apologise for being so reasonable.
Q: So that's a big ol Tyranid nerf then.
And GSC too
Sad bois
A: Joel, you should know we have alerted the Inquisition of your latent psychic powers, as demonstrated by your ability to see the future before it has been revealed.
The Black Ships are on the way...
Q: Here's a summary for anyone that doesn't have time to read the article.
Points. They exist.
A: We need you in our editing dept.
Q: I wish this piece had a real example of how points would be formatted. It's not too complicated to look for points in a different part of the book in AoS, because they're broad like power levels, but I can't fathom a clean way to do granular points of each upgrade in a different part of the book. Would have been nice to see an example.
A: Fair feedback - we will see what we can do in the future.
Q: "The points for units don’t appear on the datasheet but will be elsewhere in the same book."
Why? The less a player has to flick through a book the better.
A: So we can alter points in the future without having to alter the whole data sheet. Also, the data sheet it valid for open and matched play too, which tend not to use points as much.
Q: I actually like the idea of power levels for narrative or quick games. I understand why points are seperate from datasheets for updating and balance reasons, but it seems weird to have to look at multiple pages/books just to put together one unit for a list.
A: It's entirely so we can update and tweak points without changing the entire datasheet. It's a good thing for a fluid game.
Q: So you just committed on balance. Thanks a lot that was the one thing I was missing in 7th edition! That and the ability to transport Kill kanz in Pikk Upp Trucks.
A: Killa Kans in Trukks? I'm seeing them falling through the floor of the Trukk in a Flintstones-esque situation...
Q: I like the ideas about changing points but what about when the team misses the mark on something and it is not an issue of points but rules. Will we see the team willing to consider changing data sheets too and not just points?
A: Great question. In the brave new world of New Games Workshop™, I reckon that would be a high priority.
Q: Very cool! Love how summoning will work now! Never summoned myself, but been on the receiving end... hopefully i'll be able to walk straight after playing demon lists now!
A: Bad images.
Q: The more I read the more I like the coming of the 8th edition. Despite my initial scepticism and I really liked 7th. Now I can't wait to get it on my hands. GWs really doing a good job! For the emperor
A: That kinda talk will get you promoted, trooper!
Q: This is great I think. Best of all worlds. Being able to adjust points when units start to dominate tournaments is a masterstroke. really REALLY like this.
A: We thought it made sense.
Q: I would assume Tervigons would also have to pay points for spawning termagantes since it is similar to summoning albeit with some key differences, any chance you guys can correct my assumptions before they're turned into reckless uncertainties?
A: We hate it when wild assumptions spawn into reckless uncertainty! We haven't seen the rules yet, but it's a pretty safe bet there will be no "free" models in the game going forwards.
Q: Speaking of summoning. Will my Bearers of the Word still be able to call upon daemonic allies? How does summing work exactly? Let's say it's turn 3 and I have 150 points set aside for summoning, do I just buy a daemon unit for that many points that turn and they auto come in? Will it be similar to a pyschic test?
A: More on that to come later; you'll see...
Q: This looks fantastic! Will the books be a little better laid out then the current codexes? I feel as if I need to flip through 4 sections just to find the wording on a rule with the currents books.
A: We have tried to tackle that in the new edition for sure. The datasheets are a great step forwards for that.
Q: So, now my big hope is for a faction spotlight on the Sororitas. Cmon Warhammer 40,000, show a little faith!
A: It's happening. Have faith, Brother Devon!
Q: Love that you guys are thinking to the future! Love everything so far about 8th. Hesitant about character rules, but more than that just wish I had 8th to play right NOW! Super excited!
A: We want this game to be around a long time.
Q: Does this mean Tervigons could possibly become troop transports instead of Brood Mothers?
A: We don't know until we see the Tyranid Focus! Coming soon...
Q: Wait a second... GW is actually going to be doing active changes to the point values of certain units/gears? Active tweaking to the game beyond that of FAQ's?
Well hot damn.
A: That's the plan...
Q: How long GW's? How long must we sit in anticipation for this epic goodness?
A: It's coming soon.. real, real soon™...
Q: Will Tervigon's spawned Termagants count as "summoning"? Will you need to keep some points apart for them?
A: Well, we reckon you want to hold out and wait for the Tyranid Faction Focus, which is burrowing it's way here quicker than a claustrophobic Trygon.
Q: This is great stuff! So am I reading this right that summoning will be different from deep striking in 8th edition?
A: It could well do. More information on that coming in the future.
Q: "each of those Tactical Marines would cost 13 points each, " Fresh in from the Derpartment of Redundancy Dept.
I. LOVE. The change to summoned units counting towards overall army point cost. This'll nerf Tervigon and Daemon-summoning armies to manageable levels.
Also, can I beg a Tyranid faction focus article?
A: Of course you can, Pete. It will be with you once the Tervigon has belched it from it's burgeoning belly.
Q: Actual relatively sensbile quiestion: When the app comes out with army builders in it, any chance of a Windows version for those of us with laptops rather than tablets?
A: No word on the app yet, Ed, but we can but hope! Watch this space for news when we get it.
Q: Will there be printed "codexes" in this new format? I'm less concerned about the rules and more concerned about all the new fluff. For example my Space Wolf codex is WAY behind on lore and I would be curious to learn what the Sons of Russ have been up to since Cadia.
A: That would be very cool. We haven't heard about what books are coming yet or how, but we do know codexes in a format similar to the current one are being planned. Watch this space for more!
Q: Can we, potentially, be given an example of summoning and it's respective costs in a future article? Perhaps tying that in to however you write up regarding Daemons?
While being vague is fine, it would be helpful to have something to actually read directly.
A: We will see what we can do.
Q: Hi GW - do we have any idea how often balances passes will be made for points costs? Obviously anything more often than "once per 2-5 years with each codex release" is great, but will it be a thing of regular online patch notes, or still hinge on a less frequent release of a physical product - I.e., an annual re-release of the 40k General's Handbook?
A: No idea at the moment, Alex - we will have to see when it happens. Watch this space for more as and when we get it.
Q: Cool. Glad to see the demise of "free stuff". So will other forces be able to "spawn" new units if they have the points - thinking Tyranid Tervigon, Necron Canoptek Spyder, Genestealer Cult Summons?
A: Great question, Martin; I guess we will just have to wait and see!
Q: Would also love to see if Tyranids get upgrades that even then out against other armies like how they adapt in the books and like 4th ed.
A: Truly terrifying monsters? Huge combat attacks? Devastating shooting... Tyranids will be juuust fine.
Q: Would love some more info on necrons on how they will work and reanimation protocols
A: Hey Ellis - look out for the Necron Faction Focus article, coming soon...
Q: Hey GW, will be see a blood angels faction focus? I ask because my..eh... friend, whos in hospital, really wants to know
A: Tell your friend that they won't have long to wait! For the article, we mean... not for treatment. We hope. Get better soon!
Q: 27 pts for a multi melta? Oh my. That is not cheap! lol A: You pay for what it's worth... and yup , it's worth it.
Q: Just asking,you wrote ordinary points will come in another book.
I hope you are not planning of releasing it after 1 year as you did for age of sigmar with the General Compendium.
A: Not at all. Full points on release for all units.
Q: So using power points you can equip whatever you want to your squads, how does that not stop imbalance?
A: That's right. The Power Level assumes you are taking a pretty souped up version of that unit. You should feel free to take anything you like on that unit if you are playing Power Levels.
Q: 27 points for a multi-melta? Damn, they must be nasty now!
A: Ooooooh yes.
Q: Sounds cool! Love the power levels for quick fun play.
Thanks for the cost for tact marines. Could we see a similar breakdown for Rubrics to see how power levels and points scale? Curious to see how my beloved Rubrics stand up point wise. Thanks!
A: Tell you what, Scott.. we will write all the rules for all the Chaos models down and make them available to you on the launch!
We wish we had room to show you every unit in the game, but alas, it is not so.
Q: But what if their power level is ALREADY 9000!?!?!?
A: OVER 9000?!?!
Q1: You were 33 minutes late!
A1: We're sorry! Did we make up for it with an awesome article?
Q2: No orks info. So no.
A2: Ork info, huh? Ok... they're super awesome in combat now. More on that later!
Q: I am so excited and I just can't hide it.
A: We're about to to balance the game and I think I like it.
Q: How does a Tervigon work? Do I need to set points aside?
A: I guess we will see more on that in the Tyranid Focus article, winging this way faster than an impatient Haruspex.
Q: Veeery curious how my daemonkin are going to survive
A: By collecting lots of skulls...
Q: wow you guys were late today, I almost gave up
A: Sorry! Technical issues.... not us being divas and arriving late, we promise...
Q: How many models do you need for a power level of over 9000?
A: ....OVER 9000?!
*resists meme*
Q: Sorry when I see the phrase "power level" I think DBZ
A: Yeah, that joke's been mentioned OVER 9000 times.
Q: 27 points? 7 points?! MY OCD. WHY YOU DO DIS
A: Ha! TI's because that's exactly what it's worth!
Q: Hey GW will we see any dark eldar articles?
A: Of course we will, loyal citizen of Commorragh.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #7
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Off work now, so let's round up the Q&As for the day:
Damocles Gulf
Q: When you decide to show a battle report of the new 40k, could you have Tau vs Daemons, as these are the two of the most extreme armies, it would be good to see how the balance actually works.
A: Great idea! Chaos vs Xenos... whoever loses, the Imperium wins.
Q: That picture of Chaos ripping Tau to shreds... that's the best thing I've ever seen. Do daemons like the taste of fish?
A: Tau sushi is a delicacy in the Warp.
Q: DUNT CARE BOUT DESE FISH EADS! SHOW US SOME ORKS!!!! WAAAAAGGHHH!!!!!
A: OI! Keep da noize daan! I has a bangin' 'eadache after 'eadbuttin' that Ogryn da ovva day!
Q: Speaking of Tau, how do you pronounce it properly? btw even my gf laughed with the profile joke. hehehehe
A: Glad you liked it! We pronounce as if it rhymes with Cow. NOT so it rhymes with roar.
Q: Show me a rail gun profile !!! Need to know !! Who is the new leader ??? Farsight with shadowsun or new figure
A: We couldn't resist.
Q: DUNT CARE BOUT DESE FISH EADS! SHOW US SOME ORKS!!!! WAAAAAGGHHH!!!!!
A: OI! Keep da noize daan! I has a bangin' 'eadache after 'eadbuttin' that Ogryn da ovva day!
Q: did I miss last day's army focus or where there none to be found?
Will there be one today? ...
....Maybe two?
A: We're not doing one EVERY day...! You haven't missed one today
Q: Can we see an army showcase for Squats?
A: Sure thing. I think there's at least a couple in this picture...
Q: Dead Tau is good Tau
A: You know it.
Daemon Faction Focus Q: Whoever took over the handling of social media and the new approach needs a raise that's for sure.
A: Would we tease you guys?! Would we?!*
THE VERY NEXT POST: *yes.
Q: To be entirely honest, I am only following this post for more comedy-gold comments by Warhammer 40,000 admins
A: Thanks- we're here all week! Try the steak!*
Next Post: *Actually, don't.. The Commissar's cat went missing yesterday...
Q: I know this will come off as fanboy-ing, but I really like the new community engagement from Games Workshop. Keep up the good work!
A: Thank you! Wanna know a secret... we're all massive Warhammer 40,000 fanboys too....
Q: Nick Brown this is for you.
Can we see a faction focus on adeptus sororitas next please?
much love if so
A: They are certainly getting one, have faith!
Q: so basically every 2 days there is going to be a Faction Focus? ok, I can candle that, just can't wait till you get to space wolves soon
A: Maaaaaybe....!
Q1: As someone who has only started the game about 2 weeks ago and selected the army i like. When will we be seeing the trynaid faction focus? I want to see what to what changes/focus of the nids so i can feel more confident in buying new models before the release of 8th ed
A1: The Tyranid Faction Focus is on the way, lumbering it's way towards us like a grumpy Tyrannofex.
Q2: Warhammer 40,000 You're going to use all the "adjective/tyranid unit name" at some point, You'd better release the tyranid article next so you don't have to think of new ones every day
A2: We aren't going to run out of Tyranid metaphors; we just keep em' coming... like an overly-productive Tervigon.
Q: Interesting, on a side note what amout the huge explosion templates that we used to use with the knight titan, will they still be needed in 8th ?
A: Hey Matt - templates have gone from the new edition- it is a template-free zone!
Q: Great news everyone, the rumors of Slaanesh down fall were false.
Can we finally get a starter box for Slaanesh daemons like the other three?
Please Warhammer 40,000. We all want that great deal all three other gods already have at GWs.
A: Great point. We will pass this on to the chaps in the studio.
Q: Why don't your packaging peanuts taste like real peanuts?
A: Ummmm...Trent... we...we need to talk.
Q: Still waiting for the Deathwatch Faction Focus
A: Warhammer TV's Dan has been raving about how good Deathwatch are in the new edition. There will be a Faction Focus article on them... soon!
Q: FAN-TABULOUS!
Love it!!!
A: Whole new words from Horton
Q: Are khorne daemonkin still playable?
A: Yes, absolutely. We don't wanna make Khorne players angry... we value our skulls.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #8
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:So GW must be trying to test to see if I'll keep this up since we got 1 Q&A session on Facebook's comments on Sunday and three on Monday.
Well, it's not dark, I'm not wearing sunglasses, but let's hit it.
Strategems
Q: 'If your army was Battle-Forged'....
What about those that were collections of Formations? My GKs are going to miss their Conclave friends!
A: You can absolutely use the exact models contained in any of the formations right now in the new edition. They won't have any formation rules, but a Conclave can remain a Conclave (in terms of narrative).. just not get any free rules.
Q: Sounds cool. So those are the three everyone gets? Then there's different ones for missions. Do specific models or units give you some too?
A: Everyone has access to these three... but there are so, so many of them more coming.
Q: Can command points be used to make sure my flan is perfectly cooked?
A: Yes it can. Thanks for the flantastic question.
Q: Looking really good.. Counter Offence seems a great one. Really hoping that there will be racial/army ones.. Ork ones could be brutal.. or Kunnin.. either is good.
A: That would be cool and pretty good, wouldn't it?
Q: Whejdofjsjwjwkanfnkdfnksjwnsnfjeiwkdnntngkenwndjjebajxifkwnkaoxkcnwnzjcnsnannjfjfjwjsnxjjsbwbsndjsjnsnxjxjsjsnsjjxjsjsnejwowoksfjiwjwjwjwj. I can't take it anymore I'm so ready for 8th I'm speaking gibberish
A: Strong reaction there!
Q: Things are looking good for 8th edition. Will all factions get a focus article before release? Also if you're taking requests, the Emperor's first Legion needs an article soon. Maybe even show us the datasheet for the Ravenwing Black Knights.
A: Yes, they will indeed. Dark Angels is on the list, so all good!
Q: Absolutely awesome! Loving everything you guys are doing for 8th!
Any chance you could give a loyal servant of The Emperor a bit of info on the Talons of The Emperor? I am wondering how such warriors will fit in the new edition!
A: Info? Sure thing.. they are still very much a viable army and you can absolutely use them in the new edition.
Q: This is huge! These effekts might be the coolest you have showed us yet?! Not only will it give a whole new dept of tactical to the game. It will also make planning really essential!
A: They are huge, aren't they? Your ability to use Command Points will be the true test of a good player in the new edition.
Q: Can we get an article on chapter tactics and how sub-factions are handled?
A: Great idea! We will see what we can do.
Q: My only complaint is just the click bait part "Biggest change ever" but we've had stratagems, not all of them like these particular examples but command points and stratagems have been around since 3rd, from expansion books and campaign books. Otherwise, I'm all for this, I like it and want to see the other options we have.
A: We almost wrote "The 10 biggest Changes to 40k ever! Number 5 will blow your mind!" but we're not those guys...
Q: Would I be horribly greedy to ask for one stratagem for each faction? One typical of Smurfs, daemons, eldar, DE, Chaos, etc. Probably. I shall ask anyway.
A: Well, if you don't ask, you don't get! We can't show anything right now, but there is loads more to come.
Q: I've just got to sa, you guys are doing an amazing job with the 8th edition news. Giving us little hints and info, the faction focus, and the crazy amount of social media presence. I'm super hype to see what comes of 8th edition, my friends and I can't wait!
A: Thanks for the support, David! We hope your and your friends love the game as much as we do.
Q: Command points is a great idea because it gives me the option of maintaining the moral high ground when I lose a game.
You win? That's nice. Whos got the higher commander score son?!
A: Finally, Nick can have some sort of victory in a game.
Q: Will certain characters have their own stratagems that they can bring to the table? Also, will there be scenarios that will grant additional command points during play, like capturing objectives?
A: Those are both really cool ideas. We will have to wait and see
Q: Any chance for getting like Cards for these stratagems? Like those Tactical Objective for keeping nearby and activate car....stratagems
A: Great idea!
Q: @Warhammer Dan So how many command point does it take to cook a Flan?
A: So many. So many Command Points....
Q: Can you use a CP to reroll something that has already been rerolled?
A: Not sure on that one; standard gaming convention would say no, but we haven't seen the rules in full yet.
Q: My worry is. Will I still be able to field my Talos army? Consisting of the corpsetheif and 3 dark artisan formations... A: Every army from the current edition is good to field in the new edition
Q: Just trying to comment so I can get some sweet sweet sassy Warhammer Community love
A: Beware the Sassquatch.
Q: Will Ynnarri Soulburst be treated as a command point if it wants to be used?
A: Maybe? We haven't seen the Ynnari rules yet, so perhaps!
Q: Love the strategems! Did I hear that factions will be getting specific ones for themselves, too?
A: You didn't yet no! More on stratagems in the future...
Q: Are the command points a limited resources or will they refresh at some point?
A: The[y] are limited. You earn them from taking the detachments we previewed earlier.
Q: Guuuuh, please, I want a release date for 8th so badly. A: Real soon...!
Q: Are the command points a set amount for the game or is it a pool you get each turn
A: They are set, and the number you have depends on the detachments you have fulfilled pre-game.
Q: What else can command points be used for. I belive it was said you can spend them to try to go first..? Is that true?
A: Maybe? We haven't revealed any more of these yet... so watch our for more!
Q: Will out of production models like the bonesinger be getting rules in 8th?
A: That's a great question and we're not sure right now until we see the rules.
Q: Hey, Warhammer 40,000:
This question is a little late, probably should have been back on the infantry reveal....BUT this is a very important question!!!
It involves the new rule allowing infantry to act as if they have split fire.
Say a Devestator squad has 4 Lascannons. Say there are two badly hurt land raiders - When do I determine how many cannons to fire at each?
Can I fire them one at a time at the target of my choice each shot?
Do I declare 1 shot against the first, and 3 against the second?
A: Haneef - that's now quite right. In the new edition, you can elect to shoot every gun at a different target if you like. Eg- four lascannons? You can shoot four different tanks.
You elect before you shoot anything where all the shots will be going, then roll to hit.
Q: Can someone spell out the counter offensive one for me, trying to wrap my head around it
A: Sure thing.. it's like this.
So, Nick's Ultramarines are playing Dom's Orks. It's Dom's turn.
Dom has charged 2 units into combat this turn;
A) Ork Boys into some Tactical marines
B) Nobz into some Scouts.
There are also 2 combats already taking place:
C) Assault Marines vs Burna Boyz
D) Command Squad vs Gretchin.
It's the combat phase. Dom will be attacking with the Boyz from A) and the Nobz from B) first (before anything else) as they charged this turn.
Dom activates The Nobz in combat B) to fight; they kill some scouts.
Normally, Dom would automatically go next with the Boyz in combat A) because they also charged.
But Nick calls Counter-Offensive, costing him 2 Command Points. He now gets to activate the Tactical Squad in Combat A), before the Boyz in Combat A) fight. The Marines kill 8 of the Orks (coz Ultramarines are amazing).
Now, Dom activates the Boyz in Combat A).. there are only two of them left!
Now it goes to units that have not charged. It's Dom's turn, so he activates the Burna Boyz in combat C).
Then, Nick activates a remaining unit. The players then alternate activating units unit every unit has fought in the combat phase.
I hope that helps!
Q: With each passing day and article my anticipation for 8th grows. But tell me oh great scribes, what will come of my god machines of the Omnissiah? Will the Collegia Titanica still walk in the 41st millenium? Or will they be containted to the Age of Darkness?
A: So much more information coming soon, loyal servant of Mars!
Q: Will there be Stratagems that add passive effects to an army? (for example maybe giving it a bonus to leadership value or a +1 to shoot with certain weapons?)
A: If there are any passive ones, we haven't seen them yet!
Q: Do these command points replenish, or are these what you get for the enitre game?
A: No, you get a set amount based on the detachments you have taken.
Q: Nick must hold back the flood gates alone now.
A: I got this. Really. Which way do I point the lasgun?
Q: Are we going to see a faction focus Black Templars?
A: There will most certainly be a Space Marines Faction Focus.
Q1: How do you cook a flan?
A1: I'm going to kill Rob. With a flan.
Q2: That seems violent and unbecoming of dessert...
A2: What can I say. I'm a Flanatic.
Q3: It's Flan-tastic puns like this that keep me going.
A3: Is this life? Or is this just flantasy?
Q: Blood Angel faction focus A: They are all coming, guys, all good'!
Primaris Marine Teaser Video Responses by WarhammerTV Q: First off, I'm totally on board and can't wait for 8th.
Fluff-wise, how can this (creation and implementation of primaris marines) NOT cause another HERESY? Even their name, PRIMARIS, you'd be telling marine vets of hundreds of wars that they are secondary. The PRIMARIS would surely look down on their "cousins" and thus be even FURTHER removed from empathy with baseline humanity. (Which is the core reason for the Heresy IE why should lesser beings rule) All in all , I'm effing stoked.
A: We're sure they learned their lesson the first time, right? RIGHT?
Q: They look rather imposing, and it's good that you're not marketing them as a replacement, but an addition. Would it be possible to see a comparison photo with regular Astartes and Custodes?
A: We'll see what we can do, Marcin.
Q: Are these the new Marines RG was making?!
A: Gulliman makes his own rules.
...Then writes them down in a book, and calls it the Codex Astartes.
Q: Looking great! Imposing as a Marine should be.
I hope, like other of my traitor brethren, that the warp will fuel our bodies to fight these new arrivals on an equal ground with new troops without having to be one of the awesome new Deathguard Marines~
A: The Traitors already get their cult troops (as and you say, there are more on the way). These guys can match them in battle
Martian technology and gene science matched against ancient warriors powered by the dark gods - doesn't get much more Warhammer 40,000 than that!
Q: GW, are my normal Blood Angels going to be fairly useless next to these guys or will the Primaris fill more or an elite role?
I only ask because of the information saying that there are now whole Chapters consisting solely of these new marines. As a competitive player (mostly), will I be replacing my normal Astartes with these dudes to keep my edge or will they indeed fill more of a terminator-like role?
A: Hey Elliot,
Good question. We think players will be able to make a competitive force using either their existing models, a mixed force, or a pure Primaris Space Marines army. We'll have an article on how they fit into your games on the way really soon (as in, today)
Q: They look nice but do we really need more marine stuff ? We have armies that haven't been uptade in years, models that look ridiculous by today's standards (ork buggy, I'm looking at you...)
A: Hey,
We'll get to everyone in good time, don't you worry.
Everyone will get news toys, you just have to be patient.
Q: These look amazing, and the sheer amount of salt that is being produced by some people has seasoned my chips to perfection. Thanks GW. A double victory for me.
A: To much salt can be dangerous. It will be handy for stopping beast of Nurgle though, if these Primaris Space Marines ever face the Death Guard.
Q: That looks pretty good, but will armies that are not related to the imperium get new stuff too ? Like Taus, Necrons, Eldars... I mean, I guess they gotta face the horrors coming from the chaos rift, right ?
A: Hey Nicolas,
We'll get to all the armies again in time, don't worry. We only have so many sculptors, and we already canceled all their tea breaks.
Q: Dear GW, are Primaris only Ultramarines locked, or can be used in other chapters? I suppose Guilman want to help all the chapters to be ready for the next threat right?
A: Not just Ultramarines: Loads of Chapters can have them. [LINK TO THE PRIMARIS FAQ]
Q: By the looks of the videos they will have access to regular marine vehicles (Vindicator, Land Raider) right? Obviously there's going to be new primaris only vehicles too...
A: Maybe...
Q: Not a fan of the true scale look. The comic style scale was a major reason the 40k models look great.
Genuinely kind of bummed you guys are taking this route after everything else looked so promising for 8th.
A: Hey Mark,
No worries, you can of course continue to use the existing Space Marines range - the massive variety is one reason Warhammer 40,000 is so fun. It would be boring if everyone had the same army.
Q: I wonder if the Alpha Legion knew about this and planned for these guys to come out. Or maybe tampered with the Gene-seed? So many options.
A: What? You want us to believe the Alpha Legion would ever tamper with the geneseed of a loyalist Space Marine Chapter?
You must be raven mad.
Q: Was expecting more of a change (advancement) in the aesthetics.
Look like just a slightly larger scale Marine. Would like to see more
A: You've only seen one guy so far...
Trust us, we're just getting warmed up.
Q: Will we get to see some of these guys painted up in some other chapters? Or is it just gonna be an ultramarine thing for ages?
A: Hey Ally,
They are certainly not just for Ultramarines: [LINK TO PRIMARIS FAQ]
Q: These will make everyones current marine armies look so naff :/ not cool.
A: Hey Ben,
You can absolutely use these guys alongside your existing Space Marines and they look just fine marching to battle alongside their brothers.
Q: Do you think the Blood Ravens would have stole a few?
A: We reckon we can spare a few for you.
Q: Hi GW. Will the upgrade packs for space marines be compatible with these new models! . I'm just asking because I love making my Ultramarines look like Romans.
A: Hey Oscar,
Good question,
This question is covered in our FAQ on the new Space Marines.
Q: very nice! I wonder if these marines are just Ultramarines or will there be Blood Angel versions too?
A: Loads of Chapters can have them.
Based on what we know with Baal being on the menu for Hive Fleet Leviathan, they could do with some reinforcing...
Q: D: D: D: maybe I'll hold off on even getting into Age of Sigmar so I can save up for these guys A: Or... both?
Q: maybe all the chapters and legions should get some kind of equivalent? and then these cojld set the stamdard fpr the next 40,0000 years
A: Hey Adrian,
They don't just come in blue: [LINK TOFAQ]
Q1: Is everyone getting them or are my wolves yet again missing out
Q2: They said everyone... go check out the article & FAQ A: What Price said^ [LINK TOFAQ]
Q: Was hoping for a animated video :(
Can't wait to add them to my imperial fists
A: We'll have more animated videos soon. don't worry.
(Warhammer TV's Laura makes them - she does a great job.)
Q: They look fantastic, now this makes my choice of which new 40k army to start even harder! A: Sorry for making the choice hard, Amy. The next army will be rubbish, don't worry.*
*We're lying, they look amazing also.
Q: So who is the chap with the veteran sergeant markings on a larger base?
And where are the special/heavy weapons?
A: Hey Jamie,
He'll be a commander of some sort.
And as for more weapons? we have plenty more to show you.
You ain't seen nothing yet.
Q: So these new Space Marines, can they be Chaplains, Librarians or join specialist units like the Ravenwing and Deathwing?
A: We just don't know yet.
But we dare say we'll find out.
So far, we've seen only one type of Primaris Marine. He's not the only one...
Q: Why the hell do the ultramarines get yet another force...
A: We reckon mars probably have a lot of paint colours for different Chapters (they certainly have red...)
Q: So, the Space Wolves getting a few of these guys?
A: We dare say a few might find their way to Fenris. [LINK TOFAQ]
Q: Will this bring an end to all heretics?
A: That's Gulliman's plan.
the "Heretics" probably have other ideas though...
Q: Will there be books about them?
A: What do you think?
Q: Okay....but why though?
A: Because we can, George.
Because we can.
Q: Will the Dark Eldar be playable in the new edition?
A: They certainly are!
We know they have been a bit tricky to play with of late, but very soon, the prey races will once again fear the night.
Q: So is our big boy vulkan coming back?
A: No news on Vulkan at the moment.
Maybe he's really dead this time?
Q: http://i.imgur.com/WlEGd1b.jpg
A: Thanks Big E.
Primaris FAQ Q: Quick, everyone overreact! I love the new background for the Imperium and SM models and I play Thousand Sons.. They literally say that you don't have to use the new Primaris marines or models... This isn't Bell of Lost Souls, you don't have to do the Sky-falling.
A: The sky's not falling folks.
Those are drop pods carrying in them 10,000 years of imperial retribution!
Q: I can just imagine the dark angels interrogator chaplain welcoming speech for these marines
"yes at times we will be whispering suspiciously with the chapter masters and people of the first company, no you are not invited to these conversations... We're discussing... Non-heretical... Fashion... Yes fashion" so disregard these whispers and if you see any chaos marines just send them to me and disregard any mentions of them being from caliban, as you know they are all liars"
A: Those guys give quite the pep talk.
Q: It really feels like your trying to invalidate regular marines. I mean come on. "From a background point of view, some Chapters, especially those decimated in the events of the Gathering Storm, now have entire companies of these new warriors." Entire companies of what basically seem like post-astartes astartes. They really should only be fielded as highly elite units of Astartes that can really kick ass, but are really rare, so are only fielded in small numbers. It would have been better to say, "Here said decimated Chapters, we have rapid gene-seed replacement now, have more standard marines!"
A: Hey Rovaan,
Current Space Marines are going nowhere.
You can absolutely use them (and we think a lot of people will) as elite support for existing Space Marine and imperial armies.
Q: Black Templars took a huge hit in gathering Storm. Seems like they might enjoy having them around. So they get a company of them?
A1: Just one company? What about a whole crusade?
A2: This just in!
Warhammer TV's Duncan is currently painting some up in Black Templars colours for his personal army. We'll see if we can get you some photos. As you'd expect, they look amazing.
Q: Fluff wise it's very odd. Vlka Fenryka will all of the sudden take such new Astartes only because Big Boy from 500 Worlds will say so? "Yeah, we were keeping them for 10 000 years in broom closet on Mars. And here they were, thousands upon thousand new uber Marines, for each 500 into your chapter you will have Primaris Dread for free A: Hey Michał,
Certainly not every Space Marine Chapter in the galaxy is 100% sold on these new Space Marines. We'll have to wait and see what the Wolves make of them.
Q: While I'm all for increasing the scale of the Marines range, I can't help but feel like these "Primaris" marines undermine the concept of the Space Marines as a whole. For the last 30 years Space Marines in this game have been the pinnacle, humanity's finest warriors and the standard against which all others are measured. Everything about the Space Marines - from their silhouette to their standing as the Galaxy's finest fighting force is central to their image and the history of the Warhammer 40,000 universe. They have been an iconic part of the game, and I can't help but feel like this dilutes and undermines their standing in the game. To suddenly produce these "Primaris" marines who are better than a normal marine, for me, damages an intrinsic part of the fluff.
A: Now you know how the Thunder Warriors felt...
Don't worry though Euan, no one is getting replaced. These Warriors can battle alongside you existing army, no problem. The noble history of the Chapters is undiminished.
Q: Come on guys. The story had to move on, and most of the Chapters need reinforcements (Blood Angles and Space Wolf's particularly have taken a beating recently and must to be down to bare bones). What's the other option, refuse mass recruitment of reinforcements and let the Chapters die out? How mental would the fan base go if 2 founding Chapters / factions got wiped off the face of the 40k universe?
Plus cool new toys to play with - what's wrong with that?
One question though - Last time I checked the sequence was 8, 9, 10... So where is the MKIX armour, and why have we gone straight to MKX?
A: Where indeed.
Maybe there's some prototype armour somewhere we haven't seen?
Q: Oh look, yet another spaz marine chapter, like this strategy hasn't been applied yet. Yawn.... I'm going to be thoroughly disappointed if the xenos factions (with the exception of eldar) are underpowered. For example, Tyranids could use a little attention.
A: Hey Blake,
Everyone has had attention.
Every single model in Warhammer 40,000 is getting new rules and has been re-balanced against each other with new points. Your Xenos armies are going to do just fine.
Q: we had our super-humans (reg marines), our psichic-super-humans (GK) and our super-super-humans (custodes), and this is just a batch of another super-super-humans-not custodes-but-better-than-marines-thing, i dont know what to think
A: Just go with it, Santiago.
Q: Just because it's worth a shot, are these Marines able to be produced on chapter worlds from normal recruits? Or are they solely imports from Mars/Cawls-super- secret-mega-bunker-of-secret-R&D? Just because I'll be a little disappointed if I want to use these guys in my custom chapter and they're nor really like my guys at all because they didn't grow up on the same homeworld and experience the same trials and will just be whatever base personality they have in my guy colours. Also if you could respond to this. Even just a "we'll have more info about this soon!" would be cool
A: Hey Deejay,
We don't have any news on recruitment yet, but we're sure we'll get more details soon.
You can absolutely use them in your custom Chapter though.
Q: So..
How about that Dark Eldar, huh?
Dear Warhammer 40,000, Citadel, and particularly you, yes you Jes Goodwin, you amazing man you.
Let's talk about the dark kin for a minute here! And no, not those traitorous Ynnari scumbags that ruined everything. I'm talking about the real denizens of the Dark City! The Dark Eldar! Y'know, those gaunt faced, pale skinned, sadistic pirate elves that herald terror and pain!
So far we've seen a lot of great updates regarding the new changes for Warhammer 40k, and I've got to admit, a lot of it looks pretty exciting! But I have to wonder, how will the Dark Eldar (once again, the real ones, not those do'good'er heathens) fare in this next edition? The 7th edition codex release wasn't all too bad in the start of 7th edition, and I enjoyed a good number of games with them! But alas, as more and more codices were released and formations became more and more absurd, it was clear that we became outclassed. And with the release of the Gathering Storm 2 book, we saw Commorragh get invaded by Daemons, Mandrakes, and even the prompt disappearance of our glorious overlord, Vect! (Where has he been hiding anyway?)
That being said, how will Dark Eldar fit into this new edition? So far we've seen that everything will have a toughness value, which has me almost jumping in glee, seeing as how almost the entirety of the Dark Eldar utilizes poison weapons. But of course, it doesn't make much sense for my Kabalite Warriors with their splinter rifles to be hurting Leman Russ battle tanks. But what about the other special rules that Dark Eldar enjoy, and both live and die on?
Open-topped: Probably the bane, and love of every Dark Eldar player around. We loved getting those charges off after dismounting from our vehicles in 7th ed, but now everyone can! But of course at the same time.. We really hated losing an entire boat from massed pulse rifle fire, courtesy of those blue-skinned hippies. How will this rule be converted to 8th Edition? Or will it be at all? Will our troops still be able to zoom across the battlefield hanging off the sides of their transports while shooting everything they fly past? And will there be any benefit to assaulting from vehicles that are/were open-topped?
Jink: Oh how we love you jink, savior of our jetbikes, raiders, venoms, and pretty much our entire army. After all without it, Dark Eldar are pretty much flying around wearing the contents and attire from a questionably safe internet site. We've seen the extensive changes to the cover system, but what about jink? Will it affect the enemy to hit roll instead? Or will it simply add further modifiers for the vehicle's armor save? (Please tell me it'll make them harder to hit)
Flat out: Speed? Yes please. Another fun thing with playing Dark Eldar, is that look you get when your entire armada of plastic boats and bikes zoom halfway across the table and wind up sitting right on top of the enemy line. While we've seen that every unit in the game will have it's own movement distance, will Dark Eldar vehicles just absurdly fast normally? Or will they have an opportunity (like they do now) to forgo shooting to travel even further, and hopefully get those troops they're carrying into combat sooner? (I want to go fast.)
Poison: We've given it a taste and want some more! Just like open-topped, this rule is absolutely pivotal to the Dark Eldar. Heck, besides punching Space Marines in the face (Ill advised), it's all our Kabalite Warriors have going for them with their splinter rifles! Will poison be able to would vehicles as well? Or will there be some type of keyword system in place to prevent this? (Oh and y'know, those spikey bits all over those splinter rifles would be really cool if they worked like melee weapons!)
Haywire: Well heck, if we can't kill it with poison, this should do the trick. With armor value being replaced by toughness, how will haywire work? Will these weapons still be just as dangerous and effective?
Lance: Nothing's quite as fun as telling a friend that their armor 14 Leman Russ is actually armor 12. Or well.. it was fun anyway! Can we assume that lance weaponry will cause additional wounds like Lascannons? Or will lance cause even more carnage in someway?
Power From Pain (PFP!): Probably one of the funnest rules in the game for us Dark Eldar players. Previously it was all token based, encouraging commanders to hunt out and prey upon weak, isolated units to get those early game pain tokens. And then translated to an (almost) army wide, turn based bonus in 7th edition, providing a strong benefit to patient commanders willing to wait a few turns before exposing their forces. Will things stay the same as they are now? Or should I crack out some spare bases and get back to making those pretty little tokens again? Or will it remain at all for that matter?
Fleet: Definitely in the lower rung of useful tricks that the Dark Eldar have up their sleeve, but certainly nasty to help get the most out of those run moves and failed charges. Since Craftworld Eldar, Harlequins, and dare I say it.. Ynnari, benefit from this rule, I'm sure it'll be returning to 8th edition in some form or the other, but can you give us any hint what it'll be like?
Combat drugs: Those Wyches are always chasing their fix! Will this make a return as well to give cult units a random edge against their opponents?
Dodge (Wyches 4++): So we now know that units can fire their pistols in their shooting phase, even while locked in close combat. What will this mean for wyches, who currently only have a 4+ invuln save during the fight subphase? While it's definitely a lot harder to dodge bullets (ask me how I know), will they still be able to use this ability and keep their opponents tied up in combat longer?
Thanks again for taking the time to read this lengthy post. I hope you at least found it entertaining to some degree, and I hope I brought up some interesting questions! I'd really love to see how you guys answer, and even more so if there was a special little "Faction Focus" on the Dark Eldar!
Thanks for reading
Respectfully,
Doc
A: Hey David,
We'll have a faction focus on the warriors of Commorragh very soon, where we hope a lot of your questions will be answered.
Remember a lot of the rules for the game have changed, and every unit is getting a new warscroll. We think Dark Eldar will work very well in the new Warhammer 40,000.
Q: Will Primaris Chapters have comparable structure to a marine one?
Primaris Librarians? Primaris Terminators?
A: Hey Cerri,
No details yet on company or unit structure. You'll find out details on that soon enough though.
Q: Please tell us you are cranking out enough of the starter boxes. I don't want to miss out because resellers buy a dozen each.
A: We're quite sure we don't know what you mean.
but hypothetically speaking, were there a new starter set on the way, we would have made loads.
Q: Awesome news. The Scythes of the Emperor have a couple of vacancies, so I hear...
A: Oh wow, there's some of you left?
We guess Gulliman can spare a few for the orphans of Sotha, for old times sake.
Q: If allied to Blood Angels, will they be affected by blood angel specific rules and keywords?
A: Allied? They can straight up be Blood Angels if you like.
We haven't seen any details yet on how the Blood Angels special rules will work, but we might soon...
Q: (VOMITTING EMOTICON)
A: Clearly a follower of Nurgle, worried at the prospect of facing these new warriors of the Emperor.
Q: Will these be compatible with the existing Chapter upgrade sprues?
A: Hey John,
Good question. There are some details on compatibility between kist in the Primaris Space Marines FAQ.
Q: Are these guys replacing centurions?
A: Nope.
There are still Centurions of you want them in your army.
Q: What about The news from the Indomitus Crusade.
A: These guys are the Indomitus Crusade.
Q: Stormcast Eternals for 40K...
A: Hang on, we thought you said Stormcast Eternals were Space Marines for the Age of Sigmar?
Which is it?
Primaris Space Marine: Gaming Q: It means that I'm still waiting for an update to all the finecast miniatures in the Eldar range whilst marine collectors get yet another variation on a tactical marine.
A: You guys did just get a god.
Q: So finally you make 2 wound marines, but only for space marines, and not only that but they are cheaper than rubric marines?
A: Hey Michael,
We've seen the stats for Rubric marines already. Thanks to the armour piecing on their guns, their increased survivability from damage 1 weapons, and the fact they can have accompanying heavy weapons, they do pretty well in a shootout with even Primaris Marines, while their invulnerable saves make them more survivable against a lot of heavy weapons too.
Thousand Sons are going to be just fine.
Q: Will we see similiar super units for the alien races? What about Prime Orks or specific Ynnead aligned super-eldar. I'm a die hard ork player and I want new models damnit. I've been stuck with the same buggy kit since Gorkamorka came out!
A: Hey David,
We'll get to the other races, don't you worry. We haven't forgotten about the greenskins.
Also, The Space Marine Bike is as old as the buggy... just sayin'...
Q: You have created movie-marines. This is a bit underwhelming. I have been collecting marines for almost 19 years now. I have been a fan of you lore just as long. This feels forced, especially lore wise.
Plus it might be my conspiracy nerve tingling, but this feels like a beginning to the end of traditional space marines. I am sorry but I am very much disappointed as a collector and fan here. If they were elites it would've at least made some sense. This just feels forced, misplaced, and unfortunately a tad bit greedy.
A: Heh Bartosz,
Have no fear, your current Space Marines are no going anywhere. The origin of these guys traces it's origins to the heart of the Warhammer 40,000 universe. We do hope you like the full story of them when you get it.
Q: You say these new Marines won't replace regular Astartes on the tabletop, but what about the lore implications this brings? If they were a stand alone faction (i.e. Grey Knights, Custodes) then that would be great, but incorporating these super marines into existing Chapters creates all sorts of unpleasantness in the Command structure.
Suddenly our favorite Captains and even Chapter Masters who have forged 10,000 years of glory, and that we've grown to love are now going to be playing second fiddle in their own Chapters. Who cares about Dante when Super-Dante just joined the party?
And you can't use their lack of experience as a factor, that will only be the case for so long. Once these Primaris Marines become experienced and battle forged there is no logical reason for them to not feel like they should be the ones in charge, and take over the roles of Captains and possibly even Chapter Masters given enough time.
Now your going to either have inferior marines giving orders to those that are by all counts superior to themselves(lets see how long that lasts), or these superior marines are going to take over command of the chapters.
While that may be the logical endgame for Gulliman and the Imperium, from the standpoint of fans who have grown attached to these legendary characters, it's a real concern.
A: Hey Matt,
You're quite right. It remains to be seen how the existing Space Marine Chapters accept these new brothers. Some surely will, endorsed as they are by Gulliman, and some companies and chapters will be more hesitant.
It's up to you, which one of those forces you want to collect.
Q: In the new edition will there still be the current upgrades? And will you incorporate older upgrades that got removed but are still in the boxes?
Example:
Breacher team pulse pistols
Carnifex kit with different variations of carnifex
It would be great to see additional upgrades for older units
Also grenades one use only? Maybe everyone can throw one once.
I would love to see guardsmen grenedier squads.
Your reply will mean alot to me
A: Hey John,
As far as upgrades go for those units, if the model comes with it, there will almost certainly be rules for it in the new warhammer 40,000.
As for grenades, we'll be covering how they work in a future article.
Q: Great more marine stuff. It seems like most of these new rules make Tyranid incredibly weak.
Why games workshop, why you keep makings Nids worse. Whhhyyyyyy
A: ey Leium,
would this make Tyranids worse?
We can promise you the armies of the Hive Fleets are VERY scary in the new Warhammer 40,000 - the imperium will need all the help it can to stay off the menu.
Q: Sweet, and Blood Angels can take them. Now if Guilliman could do us a solid and get those reinforcements to Baal before the first part of Sanguinius' prophecy happens, that would be awesome. As much as I love to think of the Angel as perfect, even he admitted his visions were just potential futures that don't always happen.
A: We're sure Guilliman will do his best to get you off the menu.
Q: Cool stuff- Intercessors, meet All is Dust in cover and Inferno Boltguns!
A: Yup, Thousand Sons are almost impossible to shift without heavy weapons, just as they should be.
Q: Will it be possible for a Primaris sm to be dropped into an ordinary tactical squad as a specialist or special weapon marine?
A: Hey Andy,
For the moment, we don't think there are mixed squads, but you can certainly have squads of both in your army.
Q: Three posts in single day?! Looks lile you guys just switched to MAXIMAL HYPE!!!
Keep up the good work!
A: The Hype Train has no breaks!
Q: Joël Walter Please tell me there will be be beakies for the new marines, Raven Guard really needs it reinforcements
A: Hey Joël,
An army of any Chapter can use these Primaris Space Marines if they want to. We're sure there are some on the way to Deliverance.
Q: Let me sum up these comments for you GW.
" WHY ARE YOU REPLACING THINGS"
"WHY NO LOVE FOR CHAOS "
A: Short. Succinct. To the point.
Got it.
Q: One d6 for both battlecanon and frag grenade? Why?
A: Hey Dalibor,
We take it you mean, as currently they have different sizes blasts?
A lot of weapons have been re-aligned in this edition.
The rest of the stats on those weapons are quite different.
Battlecannons also do multiple damage per hit, making them very useful against tough foes, where the frag grenade lacks stopping power, but is good for clearing light infantry - which is what it should do.
You'll have the rules for all guns soon enough, and you can compare the s[t]ats with full context.
Q: OOOO! Key thing.... grenades have a range!
A: Good spot.
Q: so just marines on steroids ok..
A: We're pretty sure even basic Space Marines, are on far more than steroids.
Q: But how much will they cost in £££s???
A: Hey Ash,
No news on pricing or how many come in a box at the moment. We'll have news on this closer to the release.
Q: Will be Primaris for Grey Knights?
A: No news from Titan at the moment.
They have their own very particular recruitment process, and Gulliman likely didn't know of their existence 10,000 years ago, but who knows?
Q: I know you have said in the q&a that Primaris space marines being added to any space marine chapter is cool but what about ones that are prohibited from recruiting as penitence? Such as the Lamenters? I'm guessing that would be a no until that time is spent?
I know there is nothing stopping me from getting some but would rather keep my small lamenters force fluff compliant.
A: Hey Andy,
A lot of Chapters will be covered specifically, and how they are incorporating the new Space Marines. In almost almost cases, they will be availabe to the Chapter, and you, the player, will get to choose if you want to include them, based on the army you want to build.
T'au Faction Focus Q: Will Tyranids be getting some love soon? I love all my galaxy-devouring bugs but I am most curious of all to know what has been done to units like the Trygon and Tervigon, especially with the new Reserve system 8th edition proposes
A: Tyranids are terrifying in the new Warhammer 40,000. We'll cover them in article soon, don't worry.
Q: So in 8th, there is no point in assaulting tau (their only "weakness") because they can use infinite supporting fire and wipe you out and then just move out of combat from the 2 models that make it in and blast you off the table.
A: Cheer up, sad Chaos Space Marine.
You guys rock in the new Warhammer 40,000, you'll see.
Q: The right question should be "are tau still kings of everything and impossible to defeat with a normal and not combined army?" I guess the answer is still "yes"
A: Hey Azrael,
T'au will need to work just as hard as everyone else to win in the new Warhammer 40,000, but they certainly have some good options in their army.
Q: After reading this T'au article, I hope they give some of the combat heavy armies (i.e. Tyranids, Khorne Daemons, Orks, etc...) a 'bullet time dodging' rule that allows them to avoid a certain amount of fired shots automatically, LOL!!
A: Combat armies will be totally devastating, don't worry, Alan.
Q: Can we get some imput on most used MC in game Riptides i mean all this is nice sniper drons and crisis but no love for big guys really? I wonder if we will be able to use them in game, more then 1,2 i mean?
A: You can totally still use Riptides.
They're giant battlesuits with cannons the size of a tank - of course they will be good.
That said, there will be plenty of other stuff now to compete with them for a place in your army, more so than previously.
Q: So what happens to the Firesight Marksman? If every model is still playable, and he's not in a sniper drone team, then...?
Also, at a 5+ to-hit, I don't imagine the sniper drones are going to have anyone quaking in their boots.
A: What if there's something in the army that helps them hit on a better roll?
Q: Considering the article focused on only robots, I'm guessing the idea of indoctrinating aliens races into their forces has gone away? Don't get me wrong, I like giant robots, but part of what made T'au interesting in 40k was the whole "Greater good" concept and trying to bring everyone under their banner. A stark contrast to the other armies who only seem to want to kill each other.
A: "War is the continuation of politics by other means."
- Some famous T'au Ethereal, probably
Q: Will Kroot return as close combat champions or remain a cheap ranged unit?
A: Hey Joshua,
Kroot are a very handy auxiliary in the new Warhammer 40,000.
We're not sure about "close combat champions" but they will certainly have a place in your army.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #9
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:A short one today:
How the Imperium is probably totally boned
Q: So...would the blood angels be getting a big fly swatter to deal with this bug menace?
A: New Dreadnought combat weapon confirmed.
Q: nothing wrong with new scale marines, just don't bend fluff for it. Here bigger marines, now change collection or have smaller ones and it's fine, why that ... with cawl smarter than emperor. guilman should be called heretic for his 30k believes by 40k terra
A: Can we just agree that everyone is a Heretic and move on?
Q: God damn it. My beloved Sons of Sanguinius are on the way to squat town. Thanks GW. Looks like its snakes and ladders again for me
A: Hey David,
No one is going to Squat Town.
No need for Snakes and ladders, when you can play Leviathans and Jump packs.
Q: Dear Games Workshop Community manager, i know you certainly won't answer my question. But as i see the Lord of the XIIIth coming back and leading the armies of our God-Emperor, i want to ask, are other sons of the Emperor coming back too ? In these dark times, the sons of the First Legion really need their Primarch to guide them in theses ages of Darkness. And i'm not speaking only for the Ist Legion, are other still alive Primarchs planned to be brought back ?
A: Hey Steven,
Thanks for your question.
All we know at the moment, is that Guilliman is a the head of a new Crusade, and Magnus is once more out and about in the Galaxy.
Will we see any more primarchs return? Maybe, there are certainly some that are "lost" rather than confirmed dead, but we don't have any news on their return at the moment.
Q: Greeting GW PR team,
This has been the best PR campaigns in wargaming I have ever seen so well done. It does have a downside as we only see small elements at a time and it is a very hard system balance of point, counter point to keep everyone happy with what articles are released and what concerns are alleviated.
So far between the factions focuses and preview articles the game is feeling even more weighted in favor of shooting than what we have seen in 6th and 7th. We have had the Fight Phase preview but that article really just let us know it will play similar to AoS giving the community a more strategic improvement to the close combat phase. Between the PR replies and the article we keep getting the "get excited because close combat is great" reply. Unfortunately we have not gotten a solid preview how this is true.
The example that was used is Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers but most of the time the Guardsman win this fight in the last few editions. This was due to three game elements Area of Influence, Combat Effectiveness and pointing of models being made without taking into account of the last two elements.
Area of Influence - the area that takes into account the mobility and weapon's range of engagement. This is obviously in favor of fast units and ranged focused units.
Combat Effectiveness - This is the threshold of a unit to still make a meaningful impact related to combat on the battlefield. It takes into account many factors including Area of Influence. Again ranged units normally maintain combat effectiveness longer than non deathstar close combat specialist.
Non deathstar units normally take damage on their approach as well as in the close combat phase. Leaving a unit like Khorne Berserkers at reduced strength by the time they are able the are able to engage an enemy. If the close combat specialist win their combat now they repeat this process but generally reach the threshold of combat ineffective at a faster rate then most ranged units.
The community would really like to see a some articles on how close combat has improved. Try to cover these items and more if possible.
- The Pistol information was nice but do they still offer a plus 1 attack in close combat, as I'm not sure if that was covered?
- The moral check system is going to be very rough for close combat units taking tests on the way in and most likely from close combat. Is there a rule that helps protect the victor of close combat from taking a moral test? YAY we just won this fight but Bob died so more of us get to die.
- How fast can units get into combat from reserves and disembarking transports? PS: Please include this info in tomorrow's post.
- A more extensive look at weapons and abilities close combat specialist have to help turn the tide of battle.
- Give us some detailed examples on match ups example Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers. How have things changed for close combat specialist and are Guardsman and their equivalent now hitting in melee on something like a 5+?
- Has there been anything done to help out melee infantry advancing across the battlefield? Currently it is better to take units that will fit inside transports over running a 20 man Khorne Berserkers or Crusader squads. Cheap horde units are nice looking at you Ork boys but in games that are time bound horde armies are not reasonable. I do miss my 230 model green tide but it just takes to long to play.
Thanks for your hard work and the community would love to know why and how close combat had improved with 8th.
A: Hey Matthew,
We'll certainly get you some nice juicy rules on Combat very soon covering some, if not all the things you mentioned.
Q: Blasphemy !! Baal will never fall !
Baal will become the new guiding light of the" Dark Imperium" with Sanguinius acting as the Astronomicon of Imperium Nihilus just as the Emperor is the Astronomicon on Terra for the rest of the Imperium....
I repeat Baal can not and Will not FALL !
Js..
A: That the spirit.
Q: I dont actually expect a response here but...could we just get on with it?
Ive played 40k for 17 years. Ive seen every rules evolution since 3rd ed. Ive never seen so much hype with no release date.
It really does seem like the game could be brought back to my glory day standards from 3rd and 4th, but this is just dragging out too long.
Take my money!!! Just get every damn thing rolling already!!!!!
A: You don't HAVE to read the articles.
We just thought you'd like to know stuff ahead of time.
Q: My Iron Warriors are certainly not happy to hear about Imperial Fists running around, but this does mean more opportunity to get trophies from killing our most hated foes!
A: We bet it does.
Q: So what's happened to the Dark Angels and their 'successors' *cough* Legion *cough* whilst this has been going on , will Cypher's friends slowly vanish off to the Rock, or will they tag on to the Crusade(s)?
A: We don't know yet, Tom.
Cypher and his buddies have proven pretty hard to catch in the past...
Q: Dear @Warhammer 40,000 I'm wondering... with all this Daemonic Prescence... Where are the Grey Knights?... as a one purpose made Chapter... I don't see them in this lore.
A: The Grey Knights are very much still around.
They do their own thing though, and don't even answer to a Primarch.
Q: Wouldnt Primaris space marines look down on the original space marines? true, they are of the same gene seed, on the same side, brothers and all that, but the original version had a part of them fall to chaos (went traitor) while the new version didnt - unspoiled versus the ones that got eventually spoiled, even a part of them (they had defects).
A: Or would the older ones look down on the untested recruits?
Q: So suddenly Cawl is smarter then the Emperor? It is so dumb I can't find words for it. Just stop changing and retconing old fluff.
A: Well, it took him 10,000 years to "improve" on a Marine with all the resources of Mars, where the Emperor made them from scratch in a few years in his basement.
Q: Hello GW ! All of this is very cool (specially your pre launch news each days) Can we have some news about the grey knights soon ?
A: We'll see what we can do.
Q: Oh. I get it. No need to replace Dante with a primaris when you can just kill all the top brass and then replace them after contact is reestablished! Ha!
A: He's survived 1,000 years of battle. This is just another day in the office right?
Q: So does this mean chapters on the far side, like the Blood Angels don't have Primaris Marines? Kinda sad for Blood Angel players.
A: Hey David,
Guilliman will certainly be trying to get his new reinforcements to Baal, and we're sure Dante will be glad of the help if they can make it.
Q: Newmarines have skitarii pattern galvanic rifles, sans precision shot? Cawl's giving away all our cool stuff!
A: We bet he saved Mars some good stuff too.
Q: will we be getting any more details soon about the blood angels/baal/tyranids?p.s....BRING BACK CORAX!! (please)
A: Nevermore.
Q: So will blood angels have access to Primaris marines? They don't have access to the imperium anymore.
A: If any can reach them in time, we bet they'd happily paint them red and throw them into the jaws of the devourer.
Q: Why the blopd angels always looking like a damsel in distress? Theres a big change coming for them
A: A damsel with a power sword who hunts dragons!
Q: can i join the crusade whit my old marines?, i have many bolter rounds to "gift" to heretics and xenos alike
A: You totally can.
Many non Primaris Marines are on the Crusade too.
Q: first you killed my brets. now you will kill off my angels......why gw why?
A: The angels aren't dead yet, Brad.
Q: The black Templars better have a crusade or I will crusade into your HQ myself
A: We don't think we could stop them crusading if we tried.
Q: Can we possibly have some news of the grey knight ?
A: We'll get you a faction focus article soon, don't worry.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #10
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:New day, so new Q&A.
Tactical Reserves Q: Can reserved units enter the game whenever the owning player wants them to? For example, the subterrainian assault doesn't say if the units can remain underground to come up later or does it have to arrive first turn since it doesn't say it can wait?
A: Have a look at the Trygon; it's rules simply say "end of any of your movement phases". Now, that rule is specifically for the Trygon; other units may require a roll, but it will be noted on their datasheet if it is.
Q: err... did i read that correctly.... assaulting from deepstrike?? in that Bloodletters can now actually do what they were made to!!! ok i may have just been sold on this edition
A: You did read that! Of course, they will be over 9" away, so that's a hard charge on 2D6. That, of course is where your Command Points for re-rolling dice might be useful...
Q: I do hope every genestealer cult unit has the option to perform an ambush of some kind. Needing a certain amount of units starting on the table is fair enough, but i think every cult unit woukd get the option of ambushing.
Can't wait now. Hurry up already A: There will be so much ambushing. So much. Watch this space for the Cult Faction Focus coming soon.
Q: I think Tyranid players will like that the Tryon tunnels will actually function properly (instead of whatever unit the player intended on coming through the tunnel arriving first)
And Charge from reserve (even a long one) is better than the units having to twiddle their thumbs if they aren't a shooty unit
A: It's a 9" charge.. so, a risky roll... but certainly doable! Trygons arriving is now a truly terrifying prospect...
Q: Will all Daemons still be able to deep strike or whatever their new rule will be called? Will any of them have abilities to increase their charge distance? Thinking hounds or some of the faster moving Slaanesh stuff here.
A: We haven't seen those rules yet, Phillip; watch this page for more news when we get it.
Q: What about the special rule Hunters from Hyperspace for Necron Deathmarks ? And give us a faction focus : Necrons today please instead of those sadistic pansy Dark Eldar A: You've waited for millennia under the sands... what's a little more waiting to a Necron...
Q: Question, for non-competitive games, would an all drop pod army still be allowed? I've been working on an Ultramarines 2nd company with all drop pods.
A: If you're playing an Open or Narrative game and you agree something with an opponent before the game.. then do as you wish!
Q: So genestealer cult needs to deploy half the army during deployment? Is infiltrate a part of deployment in 8th? (maybe it is in 7th as well don't have the rulebook at hand) Do they still arrive with infiltrate?... So many questions and not enough answers :O
Keep up the awesome work
A: There is a sneaky Genestealer Cult Faction Focus article working it's way through the shadows to jump us from behind any time soon...
Q: I'm also really interested how it will work for deepstrike army like for example deathwatch. Striking precisly into heart of enemy force was something iconic for them.
A: There is a Deathwatch Faction Focus on it's way soon.
Q: So any hints on how daemons will appear on the battlefield?
A: With a big zzzap, a puff of smoke and a "ta-daa!". Those daemons love their dramatic entrances.
Q: So...assault from the-deployment-type-formally-known-as-deep-strike? Yes, please. Looks like I'll finally have to change my saying: "Deep striking is for suckers."
A: *EDIT: "winners"
Q: Klopp Question: How do the new Primaris Marines taste? My Trygon is asking for a friend. Is it like a Coke vs Coke Zero thing?
A: We asked the Lictor which hangs around in the office. He said they taste like blue cheese, blueberries and blue candies. But then, they were Ultramarines that he noshed on.
Q: Will there be rules for my Dreadnought to surf on top of my Land Raider?
A: Pics or it didn't happen.
Q: Will an Autarch's Path of Command still function as it's current form?
A: All the rules are being re-done from bottom up.... so, perhaps! We'll have to wait until we see the Autarch rules...
Q: So is it confirmed we can charge from deep striking in 8th? Will Warp Talons do something useful the turn they rip out of the warp?
A: Remember, there is no such thing as the special rule "Deep Strike" any more. Each unit's rules will be noted on it's data sheet. Perhaps the Warp Talons one is the same.. perhaps it's different.. .we don't know until we see it!
Q: Are we going to see a Skitarii preview in the near future?
A: Absolutely, yes.
Q: Will Black Templars keep their Vows when arriving from reserves?
A: Maybe? We'll have to see when the Space Marine Focus hits!
Q: This is great! So if I have a pool of points to summon daemons in matched play, do they all have to be summoned before the end of the third battle round?
A: That's a great question, Robert; we just don't know right now! There's loads more coming soon, all is good.
Q: NICE! Assault from Deepstrike!
I hope my Khornis can advance and charge or get additional inches... Booom that will be powerful! No more walking around and hoping for reserves. They just come when I need them! SOOOOOO good!!!!!!
I want to dance and sing!
A: Dance and sing?
Sounds like Noise Marines might be more up your street.
Q: Weren't we supposed to get a dark eldar article? Just asking, not trying to badger.
A: Maybe you get both today...
Q: The new Trygon rules sound awesome. Bringing a buddy with him really opens up tactical options. 30x termagants popping up across the board to claim an objective while the Trygon terrorizes some fancy new marines sounds great.
A: By "great", you mean "truly terrifying", right?!
Q: Showing up in a silent storm of steel and shuriken fire the Harlequins burst forth from the Webway!
Can i expect this to be a tactic for the Harlequins in 8th?
I mean Harlequins showing up, killing stuff before disapearing back into the webway! How cool would that be right?!
A: That sounds ace! Watch out for the Harlequin Faction Focus, coming soon.
Q: I've asked questions before and didn't get answered but I gotta try again: how does this work for drop pods? In matched play if you take pods for everyone, half start on the field? Thx in advance for the reply gw A: Hey Eryk,
We'll transports, and drop pods specifically in an article soon.
Q: Does that mean that deep striking no longer scatters. As someone whose has to red faced explain how I lost Kaldor Draigo himself to a deep strike mishap on far too many occasions, that's awesome
A: Hey Steven,
"Deep strike" no longer exists. Units all have their own deployment rules. The trygon we can see here, certainly doesn't scatter.
Q: Is it only specific units that can charge from reserve? And will character like Abaddon be deep striking solo then? Or will he get his bringers of despair
A: Hey Christopher,
There is no "Deep Strike" as such.
Whether a unit can charge or not after deploying using an unusual mechanism will be specified on it's own datasheet. Most Terminators will get this in some capacity.
Q: Hey Warhammer 40,000, these new rules look great, but can you clarify if an 8 roll with the dice is enough to assault ? thanks
A: Hmm, we don't think so.
If you are more than 9" away, then moving 8" puts you by definition more than 1" away.
Q: So will tyranids get different rules for which hive fleet they belong to??? That's awesome!!
Any limits from tactical reserves arriving all on turn 1? Even in matched play?
A: It would certainly imply that in that Trygon article, wouldn't it? We'll just have to wait for the Tyranid Faction Focus and see, won't we...
Q: Will drop pods need to land 9" away too? I'm hoping no so I can land on some heretics and make them pulp. You know, like the rules studio guys where doing...
A: There will be loads more on transports, including Drop Pods soon.
Q: So this reads that they arrive when you want, no rolling, but if you forget em in matched play till turn 4 they are destroyed? Assuming I got that right, love it.
A: That's certainly what it says on that Trygon profile...
Q: So drop pod armies are dead then, guess i'll have to start selling some off as i wont be able to use my full drop company.
That sucks.
A: We haven't covered Drop Pods yet, so it will be worth waiting and seeing. There's a transports article incoming at Combat Speed any time now...
Q: Are we going to see an update on taking saves for units with mixed armor values? Inquiring Deathwatch and Black Templar players want to know!
A: Hey Patrick,
Saves change quite a lot with the new AP rules.
We'll see if we can cover mixed units specifically in the future.
Q: Well I was going to build a Mawloc but now I just might have to make him a Trygon
A: Both Good, but Trygons certainly get a boost in the new Warhammer 40,000.
Q: now the question is how you get your reserve units out of reserve. do you roll or do you automatically say when they come in ?
A: Hey William,
The unit's datasheet will specify.
On the Trygon, we've seen so far, there is no roll.
Dark Eldar Faction Focus Q: Any chance of some faction names we can pronounce?
Please don't change Orks
A: You mean, the green Oorookiagoths?
Q: so instead of a whole new faction they just gave the Dark Eldar a new name and a fresh coat of paint.... i am not impressed
A: Why would they be a whole new Faction?
What they got was some awesome new rules so that you guys with Dark Eldar minitures can kick face on the tabletop.
Q: Hello. Thank you very much for all this teasing on the new edition. It is going to be awesome. Could we have a focus on the Space Wolves, the Fenris Warzone and the primaris for the Space Wolves, please ? My wolves want to tear heretic throats, especially some made of dust.
A: I bet we can.
Q: It still doesn't solve the basic problem of getting Wytches into close combat though. Or Incubi for that matter.
A: If only Raiders were better.
Oh wait! They are.
Q: Necrons next please. Or you shall be deemed heretics
A: We think they overthrew and imprisoned their gods. So, would that make all Necrons Heretic by definition?
Q: Afternoon... I it's quite specific will the warhammer world command tanks get rules for 8th?
A: They will, yes.
Q: How do poison weapons interact with Vehicles? Do Splinter Rifles really wound Land Raiders on a 4+?
A: We haven't seen what splinter rifles do yet.
Q: so, what's going to be Friday's faction focus?
A: You'll find out on Friday.
Q: Are we going to hear about orks!?
A: Yes,
We'll have a new Faction Focus for you guys every other day, and Orks will certainly be one.
Q: The Drunk hairys???
A: Sure.
Q: Why Drukhari and not Dark Eldar ?
A: Drukhari is what they call themselves.
Q: Who da faq are Drukhari?!
A: That's Eldar for Commorites.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #11
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Vehicles Q: I'd love to see a little more on Necrons overall please? This is the first mention we've gotten yet and it's barely anything. Gauss, reanimation, quantum shielding info would be very welcome because I'm super excited for 8th.
A: [REDACTED] you guys have been waiting under the sands of Tomb Worlds for millennia... this wait must be comparatively easy...
Q1: So since assault from vehicles is a thing, could a transport charge and soak up overwatch, and then have the troops inside charge out into the same target?
A1: We have an article on transports coming soon.... we promise.
Q2 (Marneus Calgar): When you say soon where would that fall on the scale of say a Nid invasion? Are we talking genestealer cults praying in the basement or the "sky is raining teeth"? level of soon?
A2: Marneus Calgar The fact you judge times in Tyranid invasions makes us very happy.
Q: How does this work if a transport, let's say a Trukk carrying a squad of 12 Boyz, charges another vehicle or infantry squadron? At what point will the Boyz be able to disembark and contribute to the melee?
A: Hey Alex - watch out for the transport-specific article, coming soon.
Q: So in the case of open topped vehicle passengers fighting in the combat phase. Will both passengers and vehicle fight at once or will they count as separate units for the "you go I go" purposes? Neuro shredder harlequins are going to be hard to shift I'm hoping
A: Hey Andrew - watch out for the transport article, coming soon.
Q: any hints on how units transport , especially characters - now that they are lone units. will i need to take a vehicle as a lone transport for say my ork warboss.?
A: We have loads more on transports coming soon in their own article.
Q: Still want to know with the new character rules how transports work. Do characters need to have their own or can they ride with the rank and file?
Also this give me high hopes for grabba claws and wrecking balls actually getting to do things. I can't wait to glue and paint them onto my truckk fleet.
A: All will be revealed when the transport article hits...
Q: I can't wait to run a Leman Russ with three heavy flamers and a dozer blade to keep the bodies from piling up and blocking the vision slits!
A: Big yes to this!
Q: Will Adeptus Mechanicus recieve some nice vehicles?
We are the only faction that has no dedicated flyers or transports.
Ignoring the Imperial Knights as unit because every faction can pick them up and they are still not ad mech specific.
Will Ad mech plasma weapons lose the gets hot rule?
What about Belisarius Cawl?
Will we get GW Titans (with decent plastic)
Or Overly Compensating Tanks.
What about grav? how it is going to influence the vehicles?
A: We have no news on new releases, I'm afraid. As soon as we know anything, we will let folks know here.
Q: Wow! Those are huge changes and will make 40k so much quicker to learn. Cant wait for fielding my Deffrolla-Burnaboyz Battlewagon! Some hints on the release date?
A: No hints to be had... but we can say Burna Boyz are monstrous in the new edition.
Q: Harlquin preview image got my hopes up... but wouldn't it be cool if the guys on the transports can fight off them in melee without disembarking (Would make sense with the sculpts!) and make open topped vehicles like them way better.
A: Hey Andrew - there is very much both a Harlequin-specific article and a transports article on the way.
Q: Warhammer 40,000, great stuff! Love the tidbits...but...the article doesn't say what's coming up tomorrow. Keeping it a secret, or is today the last of the bread crumbs?
A: Plenty of breadcrumbs.....
Oh, ok, tomorrow's article is on Close Combat Weapons...
Q: Can you give us any info on how a vehicle’s firing arc will work in 8th now, since they “shoot just like everyone else”? Can my ShadowSword shoot backwards?
A: No information as of yet; for the rules on the Shadowsword, you'll need to wait and see the data sheet.
Q: I beg of you, might Warhammer 40,000, reveal if we can charge when we disembark or have to wait a turn.
A: There's a transports article on the way, we promise!
Q: What happens when Land Raiders come charging? Are the troops inside charging as well?
A: Watch out for the transports article, coming soon.
Q: This sounds great! You guys have done a lot of hard work. What's the release date?
A: Real Soon!
Q1: Speaking of vehicles can you share any information on how drop pods will function in the matched play setting? Will we be able to keep our full pod armies?
A1: Hey guys- well, we haven't covered transports yet - they get their own article soon.
Q2: Well we have a good theme going here why not keeping it going with the transport article tomorrow? I note that you dont have anything queued up
A2: Marneus Calgar My Lord Macragge.... ummm....we're sorry to have displeased you! But my Lord, we have that other article lined up tomorrow... you know the one.... the one we spoke about?
Do you really want them to miss that one?
Q: First of all THANK YOU for giving us at least a tidbit for Necrons, I will no longer complain about not getting anything =D
Second, so an annihilation barge has 8 W the same as a dreadnought which severely weakens it in comparison. Since there is no universal rules for armies can you just tell me there will be something (Anything doesn't need to be a specific example) Necronish to help our vehicles stay alive? Otherwise we just got nerfed harcdcore.
A: Hey Sam -Thank you for reading! it's worth waiting to see the full rules for the Annihilation Barge before dropping the "nerf" bomb. Perhaps they have other rules? Perhaps they are cheaper in points? (Note: we're not sure, but it's fun to speculate!)
Q: Thank the Emperor I can now safely reverse my Leman Russ squadrons into combat!
A: We hear Heavy Flamer sponsons on Leman Russ is the way forwards....
Q: Nothing on transportation rules?? #sadface
A: There is a whole new article coming for the transports real soon!
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #12
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Close Combat Weapons Q: Now I am crying like a baby because you did an article on close combat weapons and didn't mention Orcs at all, no claw no Death Rolla.
A: All you need to know is that Orkz is da best and da most choppy.
Q: Could we see the profile for CSM Chain Axes? I'm really curious about Khorne Berserkers, and if you're going to bring Berserkers, you know they have to bring Chain Axes!
A: Holy Terra. Khorne Bezerkers are utterly, utterly terrifying. Perhaps the best combat unit in the game...
Q: power swords -3 ap, that seems a tad ridiculous in comparison to the power axe.
Also when comparing weapons, can we PLEASE see something that isn't space marine. i'd like to see some ork weapons. And especially if we are getting any new ones
A: Hey Shaun - we tend to show weapons that everyone knows and which most armies get the use out of. That way, it's the most easy example to relate to. While they are da best and da most choppy... not everyone knows what an 'uge choppa is like, compared, say, to a power sword.
Q: Warhammer 40,000, do pistols still give an extra attack for being an off-hand weapon, or are they now just getting the Shooting phase attacks? Still an extra attack in the turn that you charge, or does that go away, as well?
A: Well, we have shown a pistol stat line already in the Datasheet article (linked below). The pistol stat line does not say "you receive an extra attack in combat" like the chainsword does, so it is safe to assume that a bolt pistol does not give you +1 attack in combat.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/new-warhammer-40000-datasheetsgw-homepage-post-4/
Q: Do you still get a bonus Attack when wielding an extra close combat weapon? And if so, do Pistols still count as a CCW now that you can actually use them even when locked in CC?
A: It looks like you get an extra attack when using a chainsword, but doesn't mention it anywhere else...
Q: When using the chainsword and another, different CCW (lets say a power sword), does the wielder get to make an additional attack with the power sword, or just an additional attack with the chainsword?
A: Have a read of the chainsword's special rule again...
Knight Faction Focus Q: I just scrolled down to see if the next article would be Sisters of Battle. Seriously. We've been asking for decades for an update and plastic kits and new models. Can't we get any idea if they're getting attention in the new edition? Or does gw still hate the bolter girls?
A: No hate here, Christopher! We haven't forgotten about the Sisters of Battle at all. They will be receiving new rules support in the new edition and there will be a Faction Focus article too.
Q: So, I'd like a clarification on the heavy D* weapons.
Would they resolve like this: roll d6 to see if you hit, then roll d6 to see how many hits you get or is it roll D6 'shots' then resolve to hit for each shot?
A: It's D6 shots. You roll a D6 and then make that many "to hit" rolls.
Q: Will there be special named knights still? Obsidian Knight and such? Maybe Household rules?
A: Perhaps! We haven't seen anything about them yet... but watch this space!
Q: Superheavy detachment? I can field a Stormblade, Shadowsword and Stormlord all at the same time? In a regular game? I'm going to be so unpopular... Might need to buy a couple of Baneblades to round that off!
A: You can indeed.... they are a lot of points, of course...
Q: Will Khorne Daemonkin be getting their own faction focus article or are they lumped in with Chaos Marines and Daemons articles?
A: Michael Ryan you can absolutely use that army in the new rules. Detachments have to be made up of units that share one keyword. "Chaos" and "Khorne" are one keyword.. so you can fill your boots with making detachments of mixed Khorne stuff!
Q: So imperial knights before orks or tyranids really? You forgot those major factions?
A: The Tyranids and Orks are on the way, guys - they are not coming in the order we think they are most important, but rather the order they are written in!
Q: Can Knights be used together with imperial forces? E.g. with astartes, or astra militarum?
A: They absolutely can, yes!
Q: So What Is The Next?
A: We will have to wait and see...
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #13
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Lucky(?) 13!
Stronghold Assault Q1: I feel like it's been Christmas eve for the last month you're killing me here guys...
A1: The Emperor will be bringing you lots of lovely presents very soon... but only if you've been good.
Q2: what if we have been more than good..... greater good, if you will?
A2: If you have have been all about the Greater Good, the Emperor has a special gift just for you. He's having it hand-delivered by three companies of Flesh Tearers real soon!
Q: Nice! Now we just need more Xeno fortifications and terrain. As an Imperial player I would like a chance at ruining Xenos worlds!
A: As a fellow Imperial player... I would hope that all those buildings have been flattened already!
But great shout - we will pass this one on to the guys in the scenery team.
Q1: I would like to know how these models are made. Out of curiosity.
A1: Most of our models these days are sculpted digitally and the molds produced on site here at Games Workshop. It's a fascinating process!
Q2: Will we ever get a behind the scenes doco/movie of the design through to production?
A2: While the methods of production of our models is a closely guarded secret, watched over by a shadowy cabal of Plastimancers, a documentary on how your models are made is a great, great idea. We'll put it to our video team and see what can be done.
Q: Can we have an article discussing flyers, maybe a couple different ones, like the Storm Raven, Tyranid Hive Tyrant, and Eldar hemlock wraith fighter? I think flyers is the one thing that hasnt really been touched on at all. But over all very happy with whats been coming out
A: Hey Heath - that's a great shout. We'll have a Flyer article zooming it;s way to you real soon.
Q: Will we still be able to use Fortifications in a Detachment that isn't a Stronghold Assault missions? I always wanted to get an Aquila Strongpoint, but 7th ed Rules made it almost useless (a single penetrating hit and the gun is out of comission for example) and so far the rules seem to make it an actual choice for my Army now.
A: If you mean "is there a way of using fortifications in a matched play game?" then the answer is yes... but we will reveal more on that in the future.
Q: Really wana see how deathwatch kill teams are gonna work, without formations unless unit entries are changed the army really won't feel like it should.
A: Hey Luke - we will get round to every faction eventually. Watch out for the Deathwatch Faction Focus article, coming this way quicker than a factory-fresh Corvus Blackstar.
Q: In an unrelated topic: Congrats on achieving a 150k subscriber milestone on youtube !
A: Why, thank you!
Q: Gonna be fun watching my Trygons take apart buildings, and my Carnifexes destroy that Fortress
A: Oh, yes you are!
Q: Good to know but, a bit of a damp squib for a saturday afternoon GW. Guessing no faction focus today either.
A: We try to do one every other day, so we'll have one for you tomorrow.
Q: Is that gonna be in a separate book or will it come as part of the core rule book?
A: All will be revealed very soon!
Q: Will the various terrain pieces made by GW for 40k continue to have specific rules?
A: Yes they will indeed. Every terrain piece will have rules you can choose to use if you want to.
Q: Are buildings going to have degenerative stats as well? losing weapons as you damage them?
A: Hey Dennis - great question, sir! We haven't seen a datasheet for a building yet, so we cannot say. We'll see about releasing more on buildings in the near future. Sounds like a cool idea, mind.
Q: Any chance you guys will be releasing more terrain pieces for other factions? We've seen mostly Imperial stuff, but Necron or Ork buildings would be awesome!
Also, Finecast - is this going away, as it should (forgive me, but the quality is seriously bad)?
Also2.0, Start Collecting - Grey Knights pretty please!
A: Hey Tomek - well, non- Imperial scenery is something the guys are looking into.We have already had the Deathworld Forest kit, which saw some Eldar elements in there; who know what the future brings?
Q: I'm just happy a Howling Griffins pic was used in the article
A: That's one of my favourite pieces of Warhammer 40,000 art; the scale it gives is incredible - Nick
Q: Hey GW, show us the Assault Primaris Marines! Also, question- will there be Primaris HQ units? Captains, Techmarines, Chaplains etc?
A: Hey Matt - well, in the Q&A ion Warhammer TV the other night (linked below), Pete Foley said there will be more Primaris Space Marines incoming, and that all of them are very specialised in the role they do. What those look like and who they are... well, only time will tell!
https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/379597632435221/?hc_location=ufi
Q: Are we going to get a Zone Mortalis ruleset too? Please?
A: If we see those, they will be coming from Forge World, who make that kit. There is every chance we will; watch this space for all the latest news as we get it.
Q: Will you make bigger buildings for bigger marines?
A: Primaris Space Marines don't need cover... they walk into battle wearing it.
Q: Will you make how to play video tutorials with newhammer?
A: That sounds like a very sensible idea!
Q: We gunna hear about the Necron Dynasties anytime soon?
A: Of course! There is a Faction Focus article planned for every race, Necrons included. Keep watching this space.
Q: PLeASe B0Ss
A: Ha! It's on the way! We wold have thought the Nercontyr would be good at waiting patiently by now... as that's all you've been doing for some 25,000 years.
Chainswords are awesome Q: I've modded many of my assault marines to dual wield chainswords (with the pistol holstered on their hip). It was a CC Counts As visual drama thing. So, I'm happy to see the chainsword come into its own.
A: Only thing better than a petrol-driven chain-belt Xenos killing-bat? Two of them.
Q: NOW YOU POST IT???!?!?! Today i was assembling my new chaos army and i was wondering "hmmm...maybe some chainswords for them instead of bolters? Nah bolters will do"
Now i have to cut them and assemble them again....
A: Our apologies!
Q1: Will this rule be identical for chainaxes, too?
A1: We'll have to wait and see!
Q2: is a chainaxe the same as a chainsword?
A2: But considerably more axe-y in it's design.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #14
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Sunday and Monday Facebook Q&As:
Transports Q: I know you guys or person managing warhammers facebook must be sick of it but... We've been asking for necron faction focus loads of time too but... You dont understand b0ss I NEEDS THE NECRON FOCUS B0SS PLEASE B0SS EVEN SOME NEW PICTURES OF NECRONS WILL DO B0SS PLS A: Ha! Arda, you ask about this after every article, and once again, I will reassure you that there is one on the way! We haven't forgotten about the Necrons, we promise!
Epic levels of perseverance, though!
Q: Dayum, a Land Raider as a taxi? That would be rad indeed! Traffic wouldn't be a problem at all!
A: I ran a Death Guard Land Raider taxi service once. It was a nightmare. Had to get it cleaned,like, twice a day.
Q: Warhammer 40,000 great news for my Rhinos Are we gonna see some new transport vehicle for Primaris Space Marines?
A: That would be super cool! Watch this space for any news if and when we get it.
Q: Warhammer 40,000 Will we see a Black Templars focus one day?
A: We will look at the Black Templars and indeed, all Space Marines in the future.
Q: When a transport "dies" do the embarked models get placed in its footprint, or is there a disembarkation move?
A: More details on the specifics coming later, [REDACTED]
Q: Warhammer 40,000 please tell me how Dark Eldar Raiders are going to work!!!!! Want that Incubi assault to be devastating!
A: [REDACTED] - there is more to come. But let us tell you this. Raiders are AMAZING on a charge.
Q: Looks good (for armies that like transports, unlike my poor, poor Nids), but I do have one question. Why is it that a model only has a 1 in 6 chance to die if they're inside an exploding transport? That seems very unrealistic and like a way to make sure that you sell a ton of transports at the expense of game balance. Even if I vaporize that Land Raider, five out of six Marines are still coming at me from the point at which they stopped...There's basically nothing I can do to hurt them until they disembark or I force them to by destroying their transport. What am I supposed to do when some tournament player puts all his Marines inside transports and just blitzes for all my important models?
A: That's fair feedback, [REDACTED]. I'm afraid we can't comment on the realism of this as we have never actually witnessed the real effect that an exploding 80-tonne battle tank has on real Space Marines.
But, we can say that's it's worth trying playing with transports in the new edition to really see how they play. Don't forget, everything will be pointed appropriately now too. If our playtesters thought they are immense, they will cost a lot more points.
Q: This didn't really answer much... will assault vehicles (ie the landraider) still allow the vehicle to move and have the troops assault out of it and into combat?
The rule of exiting at the start of the movement phase would seem to make it stupidly easy for the other side to simply kite away...
A: It's a fair enough comment. Well, the enemy can indeed walk away, but then you will get out of the transport, move towards them. and then have your 2D6 charge move. There's not many units that can simply walk away that far...
Q: You said multiple units can fit in a transport. Are we going to be able to purchase say 9 tactical marines and put an IC with them in the rhino for matched play? Your example of the rubric marines had us purchasing them in groups of 5.
A: Hey guys - so, let's say a Rhino has a transport capacity of ten models. It can carry any number of units,so long as that capacity is not breached. You could, for example, carry:
- 1 unit of 10 Tactical Marines
- 1 unit of 5 Tactical Marines and 1 unit of5 Devastators
- A Space Marine Captain and his Command Squad of 5 models.
- 10 Individual heroes!
Q: So if limitations are different, does that mean I can put Terminators in a Rhino like in 2nd ed?
A: You will have to wait and see! While there is no unversal "Bulky" rule, it will say on the Terminators datasheet if there are any restrictions on going into Transports.
Q: Can multiple units sit inside a transport? It was mentioned in an earlier article that only transport capacity is acknowledged for what can embark, but does that mean two squads of Havocs can sit inside a Chaos Rhino?
A: Yes indeed you can.
Q: Sounds like you no longer really want to put shooting units in transports, because you can no longer drive up, jump out, rapid fire. Bad news for the Imperial Guard Armoured fist squads and the like.
On the other hand, transports are now far more useful for things that actually want to get into combat.
A: It just means you have to think a little more about it now. You can still get out of the tank and rapid fire,just not after you have bombed it forwards. Shooting units in transports will very much have a place going forwards.
Q: Faction Focus Ultramarines incoming? Does that mean, there might also be a chance for more infos on the Black Templars? And do they get back some more personal treatment?
A: THERE SHOULD BE! While I imagine that people only want to hear about Ultramarines, given as they are the best Chapter and all, perhaps we might have to be a bit more subtle and call it "Faction Focus Space Marines" instead. - Nick
Q1: So, Warhammer 40,000 how many people can go in a Starwevaer? It doesn't say?
A1: Well, it wouldn't be a teaser if we just showed you everything, would it now...
Q2: Warhammer 40,000 damn you! But but, there is so much unknown about harlies as it is, surely dropping 1 number won't hurt :p
It's not like you're telling us if we're getting a HQ, or how a Death jesters abilities will work, or how much more potent our assault phase will be, or whether our Voidweaver will be something to fear and not just a slot filler :p
Pretty please?
How about I bribe you with a kitten? (picture)
A2: Ok, seeing as it's you and there is a kitten involved, we will present this as a Harlequin would understand:
"My number is less that on hundred and more than one;
We would tell you now, but then that's no fun.
Count all the stars and subtract the sand granules on a beach,
Once you have done this, my number you will reach".
I think that's about as clear as we can be on that one.
Q: Dark Eldar are seeming better and better now!
A: Oh yes. Have the Raider charge in before the Wyches do and soak up the over watch? Yes please...
Q: Ultramar....yawn
A: Ooh... Oh, I see.... you're... you're one of the bad guys? Dude, I'm sorry for you. It must be lame to keep losing in all the background? - Nick
*LET ME BELIEVE*
Q: And what about drop pods?
A: What about them? They are transport vehicles like any other, except they arrive on the table in a different way.
Q: Is "jink" still a thing in #NewHammer?
A: Remember, Ryan, there are no universal special rules in the new edition. If a unit can do anything that resembled the jink move of old, it will be specifically written on it's datasheet.
Faction Focus Tyranids Q: The only good bug is a dead bug! (So excited to see bugs on the table again, then kill them, and actually be terrified by them!) THANKS GW A: Drop a Deathstrike missile down a 'Nid hole, you got a lot of dead 'Nids
Q: Dear God... The Swarmlord was always one of my fav models in 40K. With those stats how does anyone stand a chance? And the Genestealers! Ouch! My poor Blood Angels... I think Baal is done for...
A: Never! Baal will stand eternal! What are you on about, heretic?!
*checks Swarmlord's stats again*
Ooooooooooh.
Q: I only read this to see inevitable Pyrovore mention. I'm somewhat impressed with the sheer dogged determination it takes to justify what is (was?) the worst unit in the game.
A: But everything has changed now.... and... and just wow.
Q: Thank you GW for the Nids article! Your continuous feedback has been great! A question: any idea how Nids will deal with the big vehicles and wraith knights? Will carnifex be able to get into combat quick enough and eat some nommies? Very excited about the Nids changes!
A: We would love to reveal everything all at once... but we just can't! More on it's way soon!
Q: why in the name of all that is holy did you buff the pyrovore. Now we can't make silly memes about how it is the worst unit in the game xD
A: We're expecting all new Pyrovore memes. Don't let us down, now...
Q: Immunity to moral is great for the Great Devorer. The inhabitants of our galaxy will face fear itself Also good point on improving their mobility.
Will Tyranids get Pistol weapons (I am looking at you Spinefists)?
A: Perhaps? All will be revealed in time...
Q: And the beast?? What about the beast?? Come on faction focus Orks Mork damn you!!
A: We's savin da best fer later....
Q: So with an average deployment zone gap of 18", and some missions having a maximum potential enemy distance of 18", that means that Tyranids are going to have Turn 1 charges as standard (assuming they can roll a 1 on two dice).
A: That's some fast bugs for sure....
Q: Remember Guardsman Perkins, after you have shot the eyes out of the 'Swarmlord' with your Titan-Killing Lasgun you are to affix bayonets and stab the completely ineffectual 'Genestealer' until it stops moving.
A: Sounds like another segment taken from the beloved Infantryman's Uplifting Primer. Such glory.
Q: So with the Synapse rule, are there any negatives for beimg out of Synapse range or only positives when your inside of it? Because if it is only positives being inside of it that might cause me to get a Tyranid army again.
A: Well, not being inside it is negative enough! But more on this coming in the future.
Q: We have seen our beloved parents (genestealers) how much do their children need to wait to see our rules?
The cult will rise!
A: The Faction Focus article for Genstealer Cult is ready... it's just hiding in the shadows somewhere. As soon as we find it, it's yours!
Q1: A1: I would like to know more.
Q2: I love this New company. Look how much fun everyone is having with GW engaged with the community. This should be one the greatest business turn around failure into blooming sucess stories. This should be in Forbes, top 500, and everything else
A2: Wasn't "Forbes' 500" that famous Rough Rider company who were wiped out to a man at the Siege of Thrankx IV?
Q1: Cant you stop being so goddamn awesome GW! [APPLAUSE EMOJIS]
A1: We tried once. It didn't go so well...
Q2: Warhammer 40,000 I have no idea how to get your attention, but i guess persistence is worth a shot can you pls look at the issue with Tyranid warriors? You have previously given a very certain statement that they (tyranid warriors) would have more than the current 3 wounds. Is there an error in todays faction focus?
A2: Hmmm - we will look into that for you.
Q: Will the Silent King be coming to stop them?
A: Well, we tried asking him. But he just wouldn't answer a single question. So rude. It's always the quiet ones...
Q: will you guys be doing any demo videos of the new rules please?
A: Sounds like a great idea! Watch this space.
Q: A: *consults Uplifting Primer*
"There.... there is no training for this!"
Q1: You've realling dragging this out. Interest waning
A1: Sorry to hear that; we can stop telling you guys stuff if you'd prefer?!
Q2: How about some real reveals, instead of the most mundane parts of the new edition broken out piecemeal? Oh boy can’t wait until tomorrow to learn how grot blasters work in the new 40k A2: Wooah, spoiler alert! How did you know that was tomorrow's article?! It was going to be the first of a week-long series of segments entitled "Grot Blasters and You: The Real Warhammer 40,000".
Looks like we'll have to cancel that now and replace it with it with something else...
Q: Genestealer units in the 8th edition..
A: That awkward moment when your remember you left that Tyranid egg-sac in your regulation wash-kit.
Q: Space Wolves next please!
A: Not like a Fenrisian to be impatient! It's bounding it's this way with all the speed of a Thunderwolf on feeding day. Not long to wait!
Cities of Death Q: Warhammer 40,000, will we get a teaser article for Artillery and barrage weapons? Any chance it might include a taste of what's to come for the conceptually-most-awesome-gun-platform-in-the-galaxy?*
*AKA The Vibro Cannon, former Wrecker of Tanks and Ranks.
A: That's a great suggestion, Warren - we will see what we can do,
Q: LOVE the new cover rules - now can we PLEASE just get the new rules? Please? Or at least a release date? Or a date WHEN you are going to announce a release date? Please. Anything. A clue. A little clue. A riddle. Something....
A: A riddle, you say? We do like riddles...
Q: don't tell me we are keeping the bloody stupid terrain rules from 7th... It bogged down to game to no end needing to have special rules for every bloody ruin
A: These are optional rules for your game - you don't have to play with them if you don't want to!
Q: So all the expansion rules are going to be part of the 8th Edition core rules now?
A: Expansions are are optional cool rules, and will be up to players if they want to use them in their games.
Q: The 500 worlds had better be high on his to do list. If he calls one more staff meeting with out letting us go do work I am going to let Tiggy melt his brain.
A: We LOVE your posts, Lord Macragge!
Q: Commissar-kun, Commissar-kun, notice me sempai! Nyaa~ commit heresy with me please?
Is there ANY hope of getting a Renegades rule-set with the new edition OR the Imperial Guard book being functional with Chaos? Need to level these cities for Nurgle.
A: We notice you! Forge World have committed to releasing rules for all of the models they currently have on sale, so the Renegades will indeed get rules. What they look like, and how they function... well, we haven't seen that yet...
Q: Can we have the necron spotlight? They like to fight in cities
A: It's on the way, [REDACTED]!
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #15
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Round up time!
Edition Release Announcement Q: Interesting? Ground breaking, more like it. I cannot wait to get my hands on the Primaris. Since you're sitting on piles of multipart guys already, perhaps someday you'd consider my idea and make an advanced Marine armor kit, with all parts of the suit separate for an infinite amount of poses. Not that I'm complaining, seeing how good your new releases are! Also, since you're resurrecting cool old concepts, perhaps you'd be willing to do a new edition of the Vehicle - and now Monster - Design Rules? It's been fun building crazy war machines back in the 3rd Edition times.
Oh, and Nick, you know what I'm going to ask about, do you?
A: *sigh* I do,yeah.... but go on.. I know you like asking!
Q: Will the Primaris Marines function as elite choices in a regular Space Marine army? I'm trying to figure out how this would sit together with my new Betrayal at Calth box.
A: You can absolutely use these together with standard Space Marines; they work well together in one army.
Q1: Is the music in GW's videos custom recorded for GW? It's absolutely fantastic, completely fits the mood!!!
Q2: Much of the music I've heard in their videos is normally from licensed computer games, like the Dawn of War series, or Warhammer Online (the recent Kharadron release used some of the Dwarf music from Warhammer Online, for example).
Not sure where the track in the above video is from, though.
A: What [REDACTED] said! The music in this particular video is from the Warhammer Quest IOS game.
Q: What book has the Militarum Tempestus army list? I don't see it on the cover of the indexes shown.
A: They will be covered in the Imperium 2 book.
Q: Have you folks just made a post that is a repost of the last one you made?
A: We have indeed, as many people around the world may have been asleep when we posted it the first time!
Q: I hear they are snapfit? is that true? Hopefully stuff in the future wont be?
A: Sorry for the confusion on this one! These models are single-pose miniatures. They still need gluing together. As they are designed in a certain way, the sculptors Aly and Maxime have really gone to town on these and they look just superb.
Q: [REDACTED] .... prove your love for me woman !!!! Xxx
A: Well, that's the gauntlet thrown down, then?!
Q: A: Love this!
Q: Do we know if Primaris/DG are multipart or snap-fit single pose?
A: The Dark Imperium models are single-pose, but boy, are they brimming with character!
Q: Is the book the big rule book?
A: 280 pages of hardbacked glory!
Forge World's Post about 8th Edition Rules Q: Forge World, when these books are released can we please get a table of contents/list of what is contained in each book?
A: sounds like a great idea. We will get on it.
Q: Will you release army rules for eldar corsairs etc in the forthcoming books in June as well?
A: We will indeed- they are on the way.
Q: I know you guys mentioned that you will announce what's going on with Horus Heresy at warhammer fest, but I wish you could just spit it out already as Gw have been open with what there doing why not.
I've seen a lot of people selling the Heresy books thinking wear changing either way it's damaging the Heresy community with this delay
A: That's fair feedback, Harry. We will have all the latest about Horus Heresy at Warhammer Fest this weekend.
Q: So, index astartes is just marines? We will have to wait for Knights?
A: The book we have shown the Space Marines book and the article says
"Rules for all the rest of the Warhammer 40,000 Forge World range, including the myriad xenos races of the galaxy and the massed forces of the Astra Militarum and their accompanying Imperial Agents, will all be appearing in additional Index books that set to be released before the end of June."
Sounds like the Knights are on the way!
Q: Can you confirm whether or not Titans will be included with the index Astartes?
Having recently purchased the warlord to complete the trinity, I'm eager to be able to use him in more than just my local GW goodbye 7th apoc game.
A: Hey Drew- the first book covers forces of the Space Marines only. There will be more Imperial forces on the way soon.
Q: How much are these going to cost?
A: No word on that yet - watch this space for all the news.
Q: FORGE WORLD GOT US FAM
A: We sure have.
Faction Focus Death Guard Q: I know we have seen more models in the previews than the snap fit versions of DG in the start. This includes a picture of a DG termi that is not the same one found here. Will we be getting boxes in the near future that are to the full standard of model making vs the snap fit? Dark Vengeance never for CSM chosen or cultist non snap fit models. What are the plans to avoid the same lack of releases we had tied to Dark Vengeance?
A: We couldn't possibly say! Besides, if we say either way, it stops all the speculation fun!
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #16
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Went back to yesterday's Faction Focus Death Guard Article to start with since it seemed like they'd taken off for a tea break. So we'll pick up from there before today's FW one:
Faction Focus Death Guard Q: Can GW please make sure there are enough copies of the new box available for pre-order so we don't get a repeat of what happened with Shadow War Armageddon?
A: Sure thing Keith; we got this.
Q: If I play a death guard army does it have to be all plague marines? Can I still as now have generic chaos marines and havocs which have death guard rules? I would be very very disappointed if not
A: O course - you can mix these guys in with any number of other Chaos models.
Q: My poor bank account is going to be taking a battering. Absolutely phenomenal models, plus the rules look fantastic.
A: Our apologies to your Bank Manager in advance...
Q: I take it Duncan will be showing everyone how to paint these?
A: Indeed he will. He's all over it like a fly on...errr... a Death Guard.
Q: Can they take dreadnoughts still? I have the Forgeworld one and the plastic kit.
A: All will be revealed!
Q: This article talks about Poxwalkers and Plague Marines, as the only available troop choices. I really hope that standard CSMs can be still used as troops. After all, the simple marines should be the backbone of any CSM army, and the Death Guard, while the poster-villains of the new edition, is still a CSM legion.
A: You can indeed use Death Guard with other Chaos models, all is good!
Q: Would you guys at the Warhammer Community Team please tell us Dark Angels players about Gets Hot. A lot of our units have twin linked plasma, and given the current nature of gets hot combined with the new twin linked rules, we would simply be killing ourselves twice as often. I would hate to have a lot of my models simply sit on my shelf and collect dust out of sheer uselessness in the new edition
A: Hey Justin - we haven't revealed too much about the plasma guns yet; all to come!
Q: A plague walkers kills a necron warrior and it becomes an infected zombie. Logic.
A: Necrons are pretty susceptible to rust...
Q: You should like have a faction focus on genestealer cult
A: Ok! We'll do just that!
Forge World Datasheet Teaser Q: Hey Warhammer 40,000. Can you just verify that str is not capped at 10, meaning this bad boy will be hitting at str 16.
A: Have a looks at this article where it says "With the stats going above 10, the system is now an increasing scale,".... https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/
Q: Any news from Forge world about Dark Mechanicum being bought into 40k as this mysterious new faction? Come on GW hype team I need to know.
A: No news on these guys right now, but if any surfaces,we will let you know on the Forge World page.
Q: Hot damn, nice big dredd... My question is this for you gw, when the new Dex's come out will they have both the forge world beasties and gw beasties in them for my nids? Also a massive thanks for being an awesome company!
A: The standard codex books are unlikely to cover Forge World models as they are not part of the Citadel range.
Q: So any hints you can give regarding whether warhound, reaver and warlord titans will be in the new indexes? I've got a titan maniple I'd rather not leave sitting on the shelf.
A: No word yet; as soon as we know, we will divulge all here!
Q: Will there be a faction focus on Eldar Corsairs? I know what most of my armies are going to be like in 8th now, but Corsairs are my favourite.
A: Not specifically on Corsairs - that would be super-specific. But they will be getting covered with rules in the new edition.
Q: Any chance the FW books or datasheets will be available digitally?
A: We are looking to make that happen, but no word right now
Q: QUESTION! Since we were told that characteristics such as Strength, Wounds etc, don't cap out at 10 anymore... does that mean that a Leviathan gets S16 on his siege Claws??????
A: Sounds like it! 8 x 2 is 16 after all!
Q: So are the new IA index books going to be sold through Forge World or are they going to be a standard GW product? Not a huge deal but it does take some consideration for those of us outside the UK.
A: Have a read of the article below; the books from Forge World will be being sold by Forge World. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/forge-world-and-the-new-warhammer-40000/
Forge World Datasheet Teaser PART DUEX Q: Is there any chance of a AOS type warscrolls being available for free? Having recently bought IA:V2 that isn't a cheap book to replace for only 3 models that I own. It really hurts for those of us across the pond.
A: Hey Nathan - as you say, we are looking into whether we can make digital versions of this.More news when we get it.
ClockworkZion wrote:Okay, so from here on I'm skipping duplicate of the same questions and "My Faction Next!" posts for the sake of brevity.
Missions Q: That stratagem for discarding cards and new objectives is interesting as we have a house rule that lets us discard the card if it is completely impossible to complete with the starting armies e.g. Scout the skies when the opponent has no flyers or Destroying a building/fortification when there are none.
A: That's a very popular house rule in a number of gaming groups, Charles. But now, there is a stratagem for those folks who don't use that house rule as standard.
Q: This looks awesome!
Just a question, Warhammer 40,000-
It says: "This mission will be available as part of the free rules in the Warhammer 40,000 Battle Primer and, of course, in the new book itself. "
Am I reading into it too much, or will there be some rules that are not free. ie: Core vs Advanced?
A: Hey [REDACTED] - the core rules, as in, how you move, shoot fight and the basic mission will be free to download online.
Q: Keeping the same cards or do we need to buy new ones?
A: Hey [REDACTED] - well, the article says "The objective deck has been re-done from the ground up while keeping the feel of that type of game, with its constantly changing and updated orders."
That means the current cards are no longer compatible.
Q: Can I ask something pretty important. Are we still taking turns as per current 40k or the role off at the end of game turns like aos. May I point out if its the second of these im gonna cry... alot
A: Not sure we have made any mention of any roll off at the start of the turn in any of the articles yet..
Q: Unrelated question. Will the existence of primaris marines mean we won't be seeing any more new models for old marines?
A: We haven't got any news about releases that we haven't revealed yet, Mike. Keep your eyes on this page for all the latest news when we get it.
Q: Are the points for match play in the index books?
A: Yes indeed they are.
ORK FACTION FOCUS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH Q: You didn't answer the single most important thing all Ork's wanted to know!
DO RED ONEZ GO FASTA ???
A: OF COURSE DEY DO! BUT ONLY IF YOU BELIEVE 'ARD ENOUGH!
Q: My warboss highly approoves new thingies...
Warhammer 40,000 Will MEgaBosses be on 60mm bases like in AoS ?
A: No word on any new models right now... but watch this space for all da latest when we get it!
Q: Any confirmation on whether nobz bases will change in the new edition?
A: Not that we know of? Watch dis space for all da latest when we get it!
Q: So pumped for this!? Is it worth taking Ghaz now!?
A: He is so, so good!
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-Up #18:
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Primaris Space Marines 2: Heretical Boogaloo Q: Nice new info Warhammer 40,000, but there is still one question: how would the primaris marines fit into the (more or less rigid) structure of a codex chapter? Will there be an additional company for the primaris? Or will they replace battle casualties in the existing companies? And what about the command structure (Primaris Captains and Command squads)?
A: All will be revealed! The Chapter structure has been looked at and these guys fit in... but we can't quite say how yet...
These have gotten shorter lately, even without me cutting out the "MY FACTION NEXT PLEASE" comments.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #19:
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Replies by Warhammer 40,000 Q: Hey, Warhammer 40,000 I have a question about Power Levels. The Q&A that was released early on said that power levels are based on the unit with no upgrades, but there was a comment on this page that said they were based on the unit having all the upgrades they can take.
So which is it? I only ask because I'm watching people nerd fight on the internet over this issue and just want to give the argument the Emperor's Mercy. Thanks!
A: Hey [REDACTED] - a great question. We had a word with Simon from the rules team about this and he said:
"The Power Level represents an average somewhere in between the basic unit with the most basic loadout and the most tooled up unit of doom with all the upgrades. Basically, it's a mid-range average."
Q: Warhammer 40,000, could we have a break down how to deal with multi-damage weapons on multi-wound models, to include if any of the models have been wounded already?
A: We reckon a video on this might be the best thing to do. Watch the Warhammer TV page; we will see what we can do. e
Genestealer Cults Q: Wow, awesome.
The most isteresting part is possibly the allies section.
Will Chaos have the possibility to do this too (aka Traitor Guard)? It would be most wellcome and pretty cool.
Amazing job keeping the hype up, as allways
A: Perhaps - but not that we have seen yet...
Q: Anything on the Militarum Tempestus? We where our own faction in 7th and with that gone (outside of the start collecting box), we don't know where we stand. Will we have this question addressed before 8th is released? All we have been told is that our "armies" are still playable. Are we guardsman in carapace armor or are we scions?
A: You are definitely Scions. They are not going any where. More updates when we can give them!
Q: YES HELLO FELLOW WORSHIPPERS OF THE *cough* four-armed EMPEROR MAY I INTRODUCE YOU TO MY GOOD MENTOR GENE, PATRIARCH OF OUR ORDO? HE HAS THE MOST ENCHANTING EYES, YOU WILL FIND. *clicks claws hungrily*
A:
Morty Teaser Q: Siiiiiicccck
A: Yes, he probably is and has been for a very long time...
Q: A:WE KNOW, RITE?!
Rick Teaser (Actually it's the Primaris Dread Teaser) Q: Please don't let all the ultramarines convert to primaris marines.... I would still like my normal smurfs to stay relevant in the game
A: Not at all; there will always be a place for every noble Son of Macragge. - Nick
Q: I've already signed over my wallet to the staff of GW Aberdeen to pay for 8th ed. Will you accept the parts of my soul I haven't given you yet and my next pay cheque?
A: Hmmm... we have a lot of souls already...
Q: The images on the live blog are too small to ready any of the text, just a heads up.
A: Great feedback - we will look at this
Q: ... is it just me or does anyone else think with each new dreadnought or terminator released, it takes away some of their identity. Makes them less then what they were?
A1: What if we told you that inside every Dreadnought is a Sly Marbo clone*?
A2: *I mean, that's not true. But... imagine.
Q1: Now that we have a leak of the core rules, when we getting the PDF!?
A1: On release day; the 17th June
Q2: but who KNOWS what can happen between now and then?!
A2: Haha! Who knows indeed...
Q: *cough*Timberwolf*cough*
A: Nasty cough you got there. I suspect Nurgle infection. Inquisition called.
ClockworkZion's Facebook Round-up #20
Spoiler:
ClockworkZion wrote:Let's get caught up on these round ups, even if they may be a little useless in the wake of mass leaks...
Faction Focus Space Marines Q: You got to be kidding me. Like we haven't had enough articles on the space marines already? EVEN MORE OF THEM? It's like it will never end and be an infinite loop of MORE MARINES in new 40K. When are we going to get something about Sisters of Battle?
A: But we will bring you an Adepta Sororitas article in the next few days too.
Q: Eagerly waiting to see what the new chapter tactics are like for Raven Guard. Also can you give us a hint about the land raider redeemer's flamestorm cannons? My Grey Knights are very keen to incinerate some heretics
A: Here in the Warhammer Community office, we think flamestorm cannons might just be the best Land Raider option in the new edition...
You heard it here first.
Q: The Omnissiah demands focus upon his blessed warriors or his holy protection upon thy machines may disappear and leave you open to infectious scrapcode!
A: Have you performed the correct rituals?
No faction focus for you, until you perform the correct rituals.
Q: Would have been nice to have some comments on how the new Primaris Space Marines fit into the list. The early look at their points and their comparison to the tactical squad suggests that the new units were not playtested. Warhammer 40,000 Did the playtesters get to test the Primaris space marines with the new rules?
A: [REDACTED] - they did, yes.
All the units across the entire game have been given lots of attention at the playtest stage.
Q: Warhammer 40,000, this sounds really nice for the non-Primaris Spacies... but what about other Chapters? Chapter Tactics? What about the Black Templars that (in principle) least follow the Codex Astartes? Crusader Squads anyone?
Will there be Chapter specific Faction Focus articles?
A: Hi [REDACTED],
Crusader Squads are certainly still a thing.
We'll see if we can cover specific Chapters after we've done at least an overview of all the main armies first.
Q: So the over powered Triumvirate characters are still over powered? He gets back up on a 4+ after soaking up a lot of fire power thanks to his armour. Celestine is bad enough.
A: If anything deserves to be awesome, it's a Primarch.
We haven't seen his points yet though.
Q: Well, Grav Cannons are not worth taking over TL Heavy Bolters on Centurions anymore. Grav Amps do literally nothing now. How disappointing.
The worst part about this article is it rehashed Guiliman and the Dreadnought. We already knew 90% of what was said about them.
I wanted to know what Chapter Tactics do.
A: Hey [REDACTED],
The Grav Amps bonus is incorporated into the statline of the weapon, rather than being a re-roll.
Q: Hasn't virtually everything already been a focus on space marines, like 90% of the statlines and such
A: Hey [REDACTED],
We're not sure that's true. We've had a good look at the new box set Dark Imperium in the last few days, but we hope you can forgive us that. Otherwise, we've seen stats, rules and showcases for almost every army in 40k, and what's not been covered soon will be.
Q: NIce. Can you guys answer one thing? Will vehicles with sponson weapons be able to fire then at different targets of the main weapon or other sponsons?
A: Hey [REDACTED],
Every weapon can fire at a different unit if you like.
This works really well on sponsons, but also on units with a mix of weapons like devastators and havocs.
Q: I want to start a marine army but worried they are going to get phased out with these new marines. Lots of observations supporting that, can GW relieve the anxiety of useless models?
A: Hi [REDACTED],
As [PURGED BY ORDER OF THE INQUISITION] says, we are not getting rid of the current Space Marines.
And also, if you think the new ones look better, and you want to start a new army, why don't you just get those?
Q: My centurions are coming out to play again. But can you still have the sergeant armed with different weapons ie TL lascannons while the other 2 have TL heavy bolters?
A: Yes, and now that works really well, as they can all shoot different stuff!
Q: what about Calgar is he gonna be playable alongside Guilliman?
A: Why would he not be?
Choosing your army Q: What do you guys think would be a normal sized army in the new points system? Like, is 1500 still a standard or should we mentally readjust?
A: We're not sure yet - we haven't worked it out.. but we will!
Q: Hey Warhammer 40000, can a single detachment (say, a battalion) combine different armys? For example, could a single Imperial battalion contain both Space Marines, Skitari and Sisters?
A: They must simply contain the same keyword. That can be as all-encompassing as "Imperium" or be really specific like "Ultramarines". The more specific you make it, the more army bonuses you will get...
Q: I love the idea of power levels to quickly teach someone (like my kids or brand new players) without bogging them down with customization
A: Bingo - it's exactly for that. Cool, isn't it?
Q: Do weapons the unit starts with in its description have to be purchased separately for matched play, or are the points included in the cost of the model?
A: All models come with a standard weapon, and those are covered in the points cost of the base model.
Q: Hey guys, just wondering if the indexes and rulebooks will be available to purchase on iBooks. I imagine so, but just wanted to be sure. Cheers!
A: Hey Chris - indeed, that's the plan!
Q: Up until now I thought this was all pointless.
A: Hey... we make the puns around here!
Q: "How do I choose the right army for me"
"How about undead egyptian pharaoh metal robot space zombies"
"I'll take 15"
A: You're going to want to take so many more than that...
Q: A little late today Warhammer 40,000 I was getting worried! Thanks for the info on battleforged armies!!
A: Sorry about that...Grots in the system again...
Q: Will there be an official list building app, like Azyr for Sigmar? Or a 40k companion app in general?
A: We have one being planned- it won't be available for release but we will have it ASAP.
Q: Any news about artillery? Weapons not requiring line of sight?
A simple confirmation that they'll be in 8th Edition is a I ask
A: Artillery weapons re most certainly still in the game - we make models of them after all! But as to how they work in-game.. well, we haven't revealed that yet...
Q: Are Chapter Tactics involved in picking my army? Or have those been done away with?
A: Well, we haven't seen the Space Marine codex yet... so we cannot say...
Q: The army roster sheets look cool- will they be available for download so we can print them at our own convenience?
A: That's a great idea. We're on it.
Q: With all the leaks I was wondering if you had forsaken us to wander without official news to guide us.
A: Would we do that to you?!
OOPFW Models
Spoiler:
"We're still waiting for official confirmation on 8ed rules coverage on OOP miniatures. All decisions have to be made not only by FW management but also approved by GW, so the process can take a little longer to get to an official state we can confirm. So I'm afraid the answer there is 'we don't know *yet*'.
With specific regard to the Plague Hulk, it was a very popular kit and was withdrawn from sale when the moulds broke. We are waiting to hear back from the FW Studio (and a GW confirmation) on if they're going to remake the mould or even sculpt a new master model, it is being talked about but I suspect the final decision will be kept close to their chest until a release is imminent. But obviously if it is rereleased it will have 8ed rules."
No Troop FoC speculation:
Spoiler:
casvalremdeikun wrote: I asked Pete Foley on Twitter if there were going to be FOCs with no Troops and, while he didn't respond directly, he did like the tweet. So...maybe?
GW are listening to feedback:
Spoiler:
Live QA Summaries
Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary: Credit JohnU
Spoiler:
JohnU wrote: Ok, I took notes on Frankie and Reece's gameplay opinions. They also did a rules overview but you guys can read the books yourselves. The stream was like 6 hours so I'm sure I missed a few things, but here you go. Good stuff list is just some of the units/rules they called out. Absence from the list does not imply unit is bad. Very few units/armies were called out as being actually bad.
Long post is long.
General Stuff Snipers will generally need a couple turns to kill a character. 3 Vindicares is about the level to kill a character a turn. Hit or miss depending on the army you're playing against.
60-90 minute games once you're used to rules and playing quickly. Game shouldn't go longer than 2.5 hours. (2k points)
If a unit has a default weapon on their datasheet, but can replace it with something else, you don't need to buy that default weapon. FLG will put out a spreadsheet for list building.
Screening units are going to be important. First turn charges are possible.
Tanks are a lot harder to kill.
Shooting pistols in combat is just ok in practice, combat is usually over before they can be used.
Weapons were pointed for their specific army, not cross-compared
Ballistari are awesome (both shooting and cc)
Reroll was most used CP
Abilities that prevent falling back are very good
Smite is a solid power for most armies. Smite spam can be pretty strong.
Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Tau overwatch is even better than 7th
Averaging around 6 CPs with most armies. Build towards a better army, not to spam CP.
Imperial Knights always go first
LOS blocking terrain really important, recommend 2-4 pieces at least.
Top 5 factions (Not in order, subject to change): Frankie (Marines, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Orks, Nids) Reece (Harlequins, Scions, Nids, Orks, Marines)
Bottom 5 (Eldar, Inquisition, Demons, Legion of the Damned)
Favorite Rule Change: ICs can't join units
Least Favorite: Exploding Vehicles
Reece: "Open Topped vehicles that can fly are the best vehicles in the game"
Harlequins one of the best armies in the game. Big on Dark Eldar too.
VSG is still really good
Marines
Reece: "Missile Launchers are probably the best ranged weapon in the game"
Lascannon Centurions w/ an Apothecary is a strong unit
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Grey Knights fragile but hit hard. Recommend Paladins
Jump Pack BA are good. Dante + Sanguinor beats your face.
Aura buffs and their interactions are the big part of list building.
Good Space Wolves stuff: Blood/Swift Claws, Wulfen, Rune Priest, Wolf Guard w/ Combis
Get more mileage out of bigger units in general (Blood Claws, 6 Centurions, etc)
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Super expensive units are usually resilient enough to still do some work.
Drop reserves first during deployment.
Dark Angels better then they have ever been. Deathwing Knights, Azrael, Black Knights
Land Speeders w/ 2 heavy flamers is secret sauce.
Don't need anti-air weapons
Flyers are hit and miss. They don't use them that much
Grav is still good, just not auto take.
BA one of the best CC armies
Vindicator sucks
Rowboat is so stronk.
Guard
Manticore probably best Guard artillery. Basilisks and Wyverns good too.
Need to be cognizant of all your Guard characters not being part of a unit now.
Good Guard stuff: Bullgryn w/ Primaris, Rough riders, Scout Sentinels w/ heavy flamer, Scions, Yarrick one of best HQs in game, Taurox Prime OP, Astropaths
Executioner plasma is bad. Battlecannons is good. Double battlecannons on Knights one of the best loadouts.
Stormlord is best superheavy
Index Imperial 2 other stuff
Mechanicus good stuff: Cawl, Electro Priests (shooty and choppy), Iron Striders, Dragoons.
Rangers lackluster, but overall Mechanics units are solid
Knights are one of the stronger armies. 3-4 Knights tough to deal with.
Shooty Knights are better. Stomps better than the sword.
Sisters good stuff: Acts, Celestine (must take), heavy flamers, Repentia, Penitents, Full mech, Priests
Sisters of Silence flamers are best, swords are meh.
Plasma Acolytes + Coteaz
Custodes play pretty much the same.
Orks
Orks good stuff: Jumping Shoota Boys, Meganobz or Gitz, Bosses, Big Meks, Nauts, Burnas, Tankbustas, Big Choppas, Stormboyz, Rokkits, Lootas.
Boyz do a lot more damage. Trukks and sloggers both work. Nobs way better
Dakkajet one of the best flyers.
Stompa is worth the points.
Buggies/Skorchas way better.
Wagon w/ rolla good in combat, hard to kill even w/o 'ard case.
Put skorchas on your walkers. Put wrecking balls on your trukks.
Meganobs good for soaking overwatch
Likes Lootas over Bustas because of range
Tau
Tau good stuff: Crisis Suit armies, Missile pods, Commanders, Stormsurge, Kroot w/ aura buffs, Savior protocols, Sniper drones.
Didn't miss JsJ
Regular Commander > Coldstar
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Fish of Fury is decent. Frankie big on suit armies.
HRR and HYMP both good choices for Broadsides.
Vespids are decent
Tyranids
Tyranids good stuff: Psychic powers, Swarmlord, Swarmlord, Swarmlord, Broodlord (best HQ), genestealers, Prime (2nd best HQ), adrenal glands on all the things, Rippers, Hive Guard, Venomthropes (auto include), Biovores, Damn near everything apparently.
Flyrants still good, but not like 7th.
Tervigon is just ok. Warriors a lot better than before. Termagaunts just ok, Hormaguants awesome. Zoanthropes meh. Pyrovores in a pod are pretty good. Harpy/Crone ok. T-fex not very good
Reece: "Tyrannocyte one of the best transports in the game"
Tyranids can put out lots of mortal wounds from different sources
Lots of deployment options. All medium bugs build is probably hardest to pull off. Nidzalla is really good.
Genestealer cults
Cult good stuff: Ambush, Unquestioned loyalty, Patriarch, psychic powers, Magus, Primus, Acolyte hybrids, the good Guard stuff, the good Nid stuff, Standard Bearer, Goliath
Psychic powers some of the best in game. Unquestioned loyalty one of the strongest rules
MSU is a good strategy. Glass cannon army. Spamming demo charges is good
Eldar
Eldar good stuff: Phoenix Lords except Baharroth, Noobdrad, Avatar, Farseers, Warlocks, Storm Guardians, Wraiths, Dire Avengers, Scorpions, Wave Serpents, Shining Spears, Distort
Eldar got the bat, the world rejoices.
Shuri Cannon > Scatter laser
Wraithlords way better. Banshees super fast, Hawks are ok. Warp Spiders not as good as before. Playstyle is pretty similar to 7th
Fire Prisms are ok. Low damage output
Sun Cannon + Shield is best Knight loadout
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Dark Eldar
Good DE Stuff: Power from Pain, Transports, Drugs, Lillith, No Escape, Drazor + Incubi, Kabalite Warriors, Mandrakes, Reaver jetbikes, Hellions, Flyers, Heat Lance
Archons not that good
No rerollable 2++
MSU not as good. Take 10 man squads
Best flyers
Raiders are hard to kill. Reece "Best transport in the game"
Probably most improved army. One of the best.
Blood Brides > Wyches
Harlequins
Reece and Frankie: "One of the best armies in the game"
Good Harle Stuffs: Psychic powers, Rising Crescendo, Star Weaver, Fusion pistols, Solitaire, Shadow Seer (Best HQ)
Faster than you, shoot better than you, fight better than you.
Just bumrush with Star Weavers and win.
Necrons
Good Necron Stuff: RP, Overlord + Lord + Cryptek, Named Characters, Immortals, Big warrior bricks, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones, Quantum Shielding
Character auras are really powerful and important
Heavy Destros and Warriors for anti-vehicle
Heavy Destros > Doomsday Ark
Wraiths not as good as before
Illuminor is key
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Very resilient army
CSM
Chaos Marines good stuff: Abbadon, Predators, Havocs, Dark Apostle, Warp smith, Marine troops, Cultists, Chosen, Terminators w/ Warp Time, Berserkers, Warp Talons, Raptors, Maulerfiends, Defilers, Kharne, Magnus,Typhus, Nurglings
Huron not that great. Cypher is ok. Possessed are meh. Mutilators are not that good. Forge Fiends are better but still just ok
Chaos Knights > Lord of Skulls
Magnus is beast
Cultists probably best troops especially w/ Abbadon
Berserker hype is real
Hide in MEHTAL BAWKSES
Demons
Demon good stuff: Princes hiding like little girls, Skarbrand, Khorne and Slaanesh, Tzeentch heralds on discs, Epidermus
Fatey not as good as before. LoC is ok.
Blue Horror split is still good
Reece: "Nurglings are one of the best units in the game"
Summary of changes from live stream QA 1: Credit to Latro!
Spoiler:
- No more armour on vehicles. Vehicles have a damage table as they take damage (wounds) stats decrease, every vehicle has its own damage table. e.g. Bolters could hurt tanks.
- Specfically mentioned everyone can hurt everyone else owing to S and T in ref to vehicles.
- 14 force org charts in core rules, if you meet you generate command points one use only. re-roll dice, interupt chargers going first mentioned. Hints these force orgs tottally replace formations.
- Limited to 1cmd point perphase. Certain force orgs give you more or less points. Gives example of big brigate detachment which gives you 9 cms points.
- Codexes not going away, there will be books with their own army command points
- Templates going away confirmed!
- Every army gets rules day one. 5 books, rules for all armies split across these. (low price point mentioned, a lot less than a codex)
- Expansions will still be part of the game planet strike etc will be re-written
- 'Every unit playtestest a lot' after 'will riptides be nerfed' quetion. Mention of massive community playtesting in USA
- Annual rules updates like AoS generals handbook taking community feedback
- 40k rules will have free PDF digital + printed store copies
- No specific tournament rules but guidelines in matched play
- Top goals in dev: 1. game that worked for all three ways to play. 2. More balanced 3. More accessible
- Background focussed more Imperium vs Chaos, acknowledges chaos has slipped and want to bring that back to the main focus of the game
- Wont confirm a release date 'this year'
- Two points system 'Power level' narative play each unit has a general power level value. Full granular common points ssytem for matched play.
- All factions still in, new website missing ones is just a narative thing.
- There will be new factions (hinted at on launch)
- Big monsters will also loose stats like vehicles as they take damage
- Stats no longer capped at 10!
- Multiple damage e.g. wounds is in on weapons
- Matched play 1000pts to anything
- Allies still in works different though. Keywords system very specific on factions gives an example a marine with spec rules prob wont pass onto allies.
- Mentions close combat is viable.
- Background will move on but not radically change. Some on launch which will 'blow people away'
- Everyday from now on till launch will be a warhammer community article on new 40k - kinda hints its coming out sooner rather than later
- If you'v bought a book within 8 weeks of launch, you can email customer services and get a voucher for value of the book bought
Q&A Summary
Was the info released at Adepticon about Movement Stats coming back, Chargers striking first and Morale Tests real?
Yes. Armor save modifiers are coming back, Movement stats are back, chargers will strike first (more on that later), and Morale tests are going to work in a similar manner as AoS.
Vehicles & Armor Values?
No more Armor Value for Vehicles. All models will basically have the same stat line. That means Vehicles will have a Damage Table tailored to each vehicle. As the vehicles take damage they loose effectiveness – possibly lower BS, attacks, etc.
Everyone can hurt Everyone!
Will army play styles change?
They have tried to keep the play styles of armies similar and used this edition change to help reset and refocus those archetypes in a re-inforcing manner.
Is the Game still a D6 system?
Yes.
What’s the typical Game length (time wise)?
For a 1500 point game, shooting for a 90 minute game.
Narrative gaming support? How?
Yes – lots of support. 3 ways to play in mind – New warzones, campaigns, supplements will “have a home” in 8th.
Will every model currently out will have rules?
Yes! “All In” with model rules, including scenery, monsters, etc.
Command Points – how will we generate them?
They will help reflect the army selection & play style. In matched play, EVERY army will be battle-forged. 14 different Force Org charts for army composition. The way you build your army impacts how many you can end-up with.
Command Points – what do they do?
On a very high-level, they do things like give you re-rolls. There are “Generic” abilities and there will be army specific rules when the new codexes come out. One of the Generic abilities will allow you to interrupt charge phase of your opponent.
New Codexes?
Yes! Codexes are not going away, but they will come at a later date.
Army Construction – How will that work?
Here is an example of 3 Force Org Charts – there will be 14 at the start and they (GW) think that no matter what type of army you have you’ll be able to build one that matches a Force Org Chart.
Templates?
Templates are going away!
How often can we use Command Points?
One per phase. They will be a limited resource.
How did you test this edition?
GW reached out to several groups, notably they spoke with several of the big Tournament Organizers in the US for testing and feedback. That includes our buddies at Frontline Gaming, Adepticon, and NOVA. They said, “Most thoroughly we’ve ever tested.” And they have also taken in lots of community feedback though all the various forums, social media, etc.
How will we get the rules?
Day 1 New Rules! Five books on Day One – rules for everyone with Points, too! Digital and Physical. Everything you need to start playing will be out day one for all armies.
Expansions like Cities of Death?
Yes, will be part of the game. More ideas on the way way – more narrative supplements.
How about Broken Units (a la Riptide)?
Most balanced edition with the most robust testing. Hopefully their won’t be any “broken” units.
Match Play regular updates?
Yes! Much like the General’s Handbook, annual update for rules/points.
Fan Interaction?
Interactive Forum Coming as well social media feedback.
Free Rules? How will we get them?
Digital copies available and printed verisons at FLGS and Games Workshop Stores.
Warhammer 40k App for list building?
Working on it, not available for launch but it’s on the way!
Specific Tournament Rules?
No, but core rules have guidance for folks who want to run tournaments – “just suggestions.”
Unit Rebalancing?
Everything is now a legitimate choice. Even pyrovores. Everything can hurt everything else because of the new types of profiles.
How long was this game edition in development?
“A Long Time.”
What were your Top 3 goals for this edition?
1 – Make a game that works for all 3 ways to play
2 – Make sure the game holds-up to a competitive play
3 – Make it more accessible to everyone from new players, to fans of the lore, to hard core hobbyists.
They really wanted to take in as much feedback as possible and incorporate the feed back to what everyone was asking for.
Release Date?
“This Year.” More news on that later – just not today.
More cool stuff at Warhammer Fest?
Yes.
Will you cut down the number of models that are available and “streamline” the armies?
No – All models are sticking around!
How will points work?
Two different types of points!
1 – Powerlevel points – this is a basic, very broad brush gauge for a unit. It’s designed for Narrative play so you can have an idea of how powerful your army is and play in a more relaxed way.
2 – Matched Play Points – this is the very granular option. Weapons, options, etc. all have points costs – like the current system.
What about the factions? Noticed on the new 40k site that Astra Militarum was missing – what gives?
The website is more narrative focused – it’s an intro site for new players and a “getting started” place. Astra Militarum is still around and so are the Skitarii, they aren’t going anywhere.
Will there be new factions?
Yes. and possibly some new ones at launch…
What about Monstrous Creatures?
Yep, they are moving to the Damage Table like vehicles!
How will stats work? Str, Toughness, Wounds?
Again, everything can hurt everything! Stats are NOT capped at 10 anymore. Andy commented that when he played his first game, he really felt like the weapons did what they were supposed to – everything felt “right” when he played (in terms of how weapons worked).
What sized games are supported?
Both Match and Narrative games – 1000 points up to what every you want.
What’s the Highest Wound Count Model?
“The Knights are up there, but I don’t want to say and be wrong later…”
What about Allies?
Yes, allies are still around. But they work slightly different. Because the game is moving to the “Keyword” system the typical Death Star units/combos are not going to work. Your special abilities will only transfer to the units with the correct Keywords. This should cut down on the shenanigans.
The Force Org still supports allies but that will cut into command points…
Will Close-Combat be viable?
“Absolutely” – due to the change with chargers striking first and everyone being able to hurt everyone close combat should be a viable part of the game.
Is Medusa Gone? It wasn’t on the new map!
It’s not gone! The map was just really crowded.
What about Forge World Rules?
Those will be available in the same way.
What about the folks that just purchased books and codexes? Those are all invalidated!
Yes – if you still have your proof of purchase, you can contact GW Customer support for vouchers (time limit of 8 weeks).
2nd Warhammer Live Q&A wrote:> Primaris Marines can be made from preexisting Marines.
> Blood Angel Primaris Marines are still affected by Red Thirst (and potentially Black Rage).
> Mk IX Armour is a mystery. What happened to it? They aren't telling us (yet).
> Guilliman *might* make some changes to the Codex Astartes.
> Primaris Marines are more resilient to Chaos, but can potentially be corrupted by chaos still .
> More Primarchs will return (a cowled one, so Mortarion most likely).
> Consolidating into Combat.
> Power Fists and the like are -1 To Hit.
> You can either pick psychic powers from the chart or roll (like in Age of Sigmar).
> Perils of the Warp cuases Mortal Wounds.
> There's no amry specific Detachments - only army specific stratagems. Basic Detachments apparently cover everything already.
> Imperial Fist stratagem can make them better at shooting. White Scars can us a stratgem to Hit & Run.
> Factions can also use their Command Points before deployment to change how their army is constructed (?).
> Unqiue Strategems are based on main Keywords in your Detachments.
> Tactical Reserves is NOT supersceded by any army rules.
> Characters can still travel in tranports with other units.
> Transports can carry multiple units.
> What can be transported is based on Keywords (like Infantry).
> How to keep characters safe: Almost all Command Squads have rules that allows them to intercept wounds from characters.
> Drop Pods: they and the units they contain must be over 9" away from enemies when deployed.
> Grav hasn't neccerssarily be toned down, but it should still be balanced.
> Invulnerable saves work basically the same as they do now.
> Many armies have abilities that allows them to save wounds after Armour or Invulnerable saves (Dark Eldar get Power From Pain, Disgustingly Resilient for Nurgle Daemons). These saves occur after damage, so if an attack causes 5 damage you need to make 5 seperate secondary saves.
> Defender decides casualties - no longer directional.
> Primaris Marines and normal Marines tend to have different functions (Tacticals vs Intercessor are used as an example).
> Mix between totally new psychic powers and adaptation of pre-existing and classic powers (though they may function differently).
> Terminators are going to feel like Terminators.
> Many close combat units are now faster and deadlier than before, apparently.
> They will collect feedback through Facebook and eventually through the Warhammer Community site where everyone can vote on it. Also feedback through events and Twitch.tv.
> GW will still be involved with the tournament scene, especially with major tournaments. Apparently they're going to be involved more.
> They will continue to playtest the game post-release, both for Matched and Narrative standpoints.
> Pete Foley does, indeed, thin his paints.
Misc rumors
Leaked Mortarion pic Credit to Kharne the Befriender (I had completely forgotten to add this in!)
Spoiler:
REMINDER THIS IS A DEATH GUARD RUMOR: Credit to Rippy
Spoiler:
Rumored upcoming BA campaign: Credit to Warhams-77
"After a brutal campaign in the Cryptus System fighting the alien tyranids, Lord Dante returns to Baal to marshal the entire Blood Angels Chapter and their Successors against Hive Fleet Leviathan. Thus begins the greatest conflict in the history of the sons of Sanguinius. Despite a valiant battle in the void around Baal, the Blood Angels are unable to stop the tyranids drawing ever closer, but their petitions for reinforcements are met with dread news. The Cadian Gate, the Imperium’s most stalwart bastion against Chaos, has fallen. In their darkest hour, no help will reach the beleaguered Dante and his warriors. Is this truly then the Time of Ending?"
- The hot topic is the Great Rift, dividing the galaxy in two. One side can't see the Astronomican's light anymore. Half of the space marines chapters are unaccounted for and a few of them got destroyed.
- Assault on Terra, Emperor's palace was assaulted by a Khorne army, but RowBowTee took charge of the defense with Primaris + Cutodes + Sister of Silence.
- During the darkest hour, when all communication where cut, multiple sightings of the Legion of the Damned, (Baal, Armageddon...and hundreds more planets)
- Indomitus Crusade: Lots of different strike forces, lead by Guilliman. Imperial Fists are mentioned.
- Armageddon: Mega Warp storms transform half the planet into a daemon world, Khorne and Tzeentch fight each other so much, that orcs and human fought side by side (briefly). Note: Salamanders prevented a ritual to summon Angron back to the planet !
-Baal: Blood Angels nearly wiped by Leviathan's fleet, saved by the rift and Guilliman. Expect a Khorne vs Blood Angels thing in the future.
- Plague of plagues: Mortarion besieges Ultramar - there's even a mention of a fight between the two brothers.
- An intermittent passage through the Great Rift was discovered near the Eye of Terror. Revealing a sector owned by Chaos Imperial Knights!
*Message from Rippy Warning, corny post ahead:
I am overwhelmed with how amazing this community truly is. In the last few months that this thread has been up and running I have been receiving at least roughly 3-5 personal messages a day. Messages of thanks, formatting suggestions, and most importantly, news and rumors I hadn't added. This shows how fantastic this community really is, so many people came together to make this super thread happen, and I will unashamedly say that it is the greatest compendium of 8th news and rumors I have seen on the internet.
With over a million views, over sixteen thousand replies (most of which were on topic ) and entering the most exalted of all time list, it has been a blast keeping the OP up to date.
So thank you to everyone who has helped me, for those who wrote summaries of information found in videos and those who brought us news and rumors in the thread and through PMs. I tried to credit everyone as I went in the OP (apologies to those who I didn't credit, some days were hectic for updating)
I want to say a special thank you to ClockworkZion who brought us 20 Facebook round-ups, following what GW was saying on their facebook (especially handy for those who don't have a facebook).
Also another special thank you to all of the Moderators who worked super hard at keeping everyone on topic and polite (some times with 50+ pages of chat a day, and still managing to keep it in check!).
So although this is potentially the last edition 40k ever has (depending on it's success), hopefully I will have the privilege of doing the next edition news and rumors thread if there ever is one!
I will try and get in first for the upcoming Death Guard codex news and rumors thread if information starts coming in
I must say after seeing the shooting rules I'm both eager (if cautiously) anticipating 8th while also feeling overly worried for my Slaanesh Daemons. No Initiative, Pistols being able to Shoot in CC, Fall Back & Space Marines having WS3+ are all pointing to my squishy Daemons becoming even more likely to die.
Now of course we don't have the full picture yet, and Slaanesh Daemons could very well have their own bespoke special rules to help them out (or becoming even more cheaper in pts compared to marines). It doesn't really change how I'm still a bit worried.
Let's keep this thread on topic, everyone - we're all eager to read and discuss rumors of the new edition. Don't ruin it for the rest of us by going OT!
Can I make a simple request? Every other post in the last one seemed to use the word "bespoke". After reading through that thread, I have never hated a word as much as that; it felt like every poster using it was treating it like a slur against the game. Can we kick the word "bespoke" for a little while? It just got ridiculous. Never expected to gnash my teeth so hard over a word that wasn't a racial slur, but yeah. Purge it with fire, please? Danke!!
Also, I'm JONESING to see what happens to my daemons, especially my mountain of Slaanesh chariots (seriously, I have like 9 chariots).
I find the concept of bespoke limitations on word choice for this thread to be silly. Bespoke is a useful word with a particular meaning, and is in fact the word used by GW. Suggesting we not use it here because it grates on you is not appropriate for the sort of discussion this forum is intended for, IMO.
EnTyme wrote: Definitely ready to see what happens with summoning.
We have this from twitter
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unusual Suspect wrote: I find the concept of bespoke limitations on word choice for this thread to be silly. Bespoke is a useful word with a particular meaning, and is in fact the word used by GW. Suggesting we not use it here because it grates on you is not appropriate for the sort of discussion this forum is intended for, IMO.
Really guys? First page and off topic, keep it on topic so we don't have another closed thread.
Did they say if the new "codex" books will be hardcover or softcover? Hoping hardcover because I really like hardcover over the softcover a but I do understand the cost associated with hardcover might not work
Also in the first post they say each army will get its own books with army commands in it....did they confirm if that means the books released on day 1 will be filler until they release codex style for each faction?
chiefbigredman wrote: Did they say if the new "codex" books will be hardcover or softcover? Hoping hardcover because I really like hardcover over the softcover a but I do understand the cost associated with hardcover might not work
Also in the first post they say each army will get its own books with army commands in it....did they confirm if that means the books released on day 1 will be filler until they release codex style for each faction?
They did mention in the Q&A that the individual books would have the special command point actions and more specific, unique army-wide rules, which would imply the Day 1 books won't for the most part.
30K is going to continue using the 7th Ed ruleset? But doesn't that require the 7th ed core rulebook, or is there a bespoke Horus Heresy core rulebook?
I'm guessing they either think they've got enough to plug the gap until 30K makes the leap, that anyone getting into 30K is a 40K player who has a book, they'll expect people to buy digital, or even give it away for free!
chiefbigredman wrote: Did they say if the new "codex" books will be hardcover or softcover? Hoping hardcover because I really like hardcover over the softcover a but I do understand the cost associated with hardcover might not work
Also in the first post they say each army will get its own books with army commands in it....did they confirm if that means the books released on day 1 will be filler until they release codex style for each faction?
They did mention in the Q&A that the individual books would have the special command point actions and more specific, unique army-wide rules, which would imply the Day 1 books won't for the most part.
Okay! So I guess the day 1 rules will still be valid but you get some extras with the individual books. That's a good thing for people undecided on armies if each combo book has ~5 factions in each then as you build up an army you can get the individual books for some added special rules.
I can't wait for preorders though I haven't been play 40k for a number of years now (fantasy and Kings of war mostly now) but this is getting me very excited it seems like a perfect time to get back into the game with a "clean slate" type approach!
Do we know HOW Forgeworld will be incorporated? Or is that still an unknown?
I'm sitting here terrified that IA13 style renegades will be pushed to the side and just be told "be cultists in a CSM list."
They said every Forge World model is going to get rules. They haven't clarified if OOP models will get rules, and they haven't said if FW and GW rules will be rolled in together, though I suspect they will be separate (speculation though).
A promise of day 1 get-you-by rules for everything 40K, 30K continues in the vein of 7th.
Whether they choose to exclude units for some reason is possible, but not likely enough to worry about.
Also..
Spoiler:
Bespoke.
Pardon my ignorance but what exactly does a "bespoke" rule entail? I see it referenced on their initial murmurs of the new edition and I see the dictionary definition of it as well. Explain if you will? If it's OT, PM it to me.
Do we know HOW Forgeworld will be incorporated? Or is that still an unknown?
I'm sitting here terrified that IA13 style renegades will be pushed to the side and just be told "be cultists in a CSM list."
They said every Forge World model is going to get rules. They haven't clarified if OOP models will get rules, and they haven't said if FW and GW rules will be rolled in together, though I suspect they will be separate (speculation though).
I worry simply because I have a ton of Chaos Renegades. I don't want to suddenly be forced to proxy Imperial Guard again. I'm terrified they are going to go "Yeah just use CSM cultists and here is this bog-standard leman russ... what you wanted renegade Ogryn's you paid a mint for? No lol, that is ONLY for Siege of Vraks! You can't take them for a generic lost and the damned army!"
I'm sure it'll work out, but you can understand my unease... that said I've been wanting to start Ultramarines and add to my Deathguard so this is a positive. The rules look fun so far, especially the ability to retreat from close combat...will make guard more viable.
A promise of day 1 get-you-by rules for everything 40K, 30K continues in the vein of 7th.
Whether they choose to exclude units for some reason is possible, but not likely enough to worry about.
Also..
Spoiler:
Bespoke.
Pardon my ignorance but what exactly does a "bespoke" rule entail? I see it referenced on their initial murmurs of the new edition and I see the dictionary definition of it as well. Explain if you will? If it's OT, PM it to me.
Well, I think you probably need to read the thread to get the joke.
But all bespoke means in this context is one-off rules written specifically for a unit or collection of units. Just a "special" rule in 7th Ed speak.
Well, I think you probably need to read the thread to get the joke.
But all bespoke means in this context is one-off rules written specifically for a unit or collection of units. Just a "special" rule in 7th Ed speak.
Ah, thank you. So in short, any units lacking rules in a release will essentially get them as customers demand them. If I'm to read into the use of the word + their statements about rules for "everything."
It's more a case of "everything has its own rules", and that's what everything having "bespoke" rules means. Means aside from the basic rules that govern the function of the game (movement, shooting, etc.), all the unit's rules will be on its sheet.
The idea behind the "bespoke" rules is that instead of universal special rules, each unit will have unique and interesting rules specific to that unit. It makes things feel more special, apparently. So, instead of Khorne Bezerkers having Counterattack and Rage, they wlll have KHORNES FURY! that does something unique to that unit, for example.
Insectum7 wrote: Heavy weapons only having a -1 to hit while moving seems very generous to me.
In the context of a game that has traditionally required heavy weapons to stand still, it does seem generous. I like it, though... potentially makes for a more mobile game, and more use out of heavies, as you don't waste turns getting them into position or waiting for something to walk in front of them. There's not really any inherent reason that heavy weapons should require models to not move that turn... that was just the abstraction that was previously built into the system.
Having said that, it also goes one more step towards this edition being about killing things even faster than ever before... which I'm less fond of.
Still nervous to see what they do with Artillery and Iron Warriors! Hoping for an excuse to buy some Chaos-y stuff and make my Iron Watriors 30k and 40k Compatible.
Insectum7 wrote: Heavy weapons only having a -1 to hit while moving seems very generous to me.
Having said that, it also goes one more step towards this edition being about killing things even faster than ever before... which I'm less fond of.
This could be true, however, it also means things like Centurions, Riptides, and other deadlier 7th Ed. shooters get -1 to Hit if they move (depending on how things shake out in the end), which could be good at mitigating some overall damage output. I think it'll balance out in the end. Heavy Weapons look like they will be pretty useful this edition. I haven't seen a Lascannon on the table in last two years, or big blasty tanks like the leman russ with battlecannon, so I am fine if heavy weapons get a boost.
FireSkullz2 wrote: Still nervous to see what they do with Artillery and Iron Warriors! Hoping for an excuse to buy some Chaos-y stuff and make my Iron Watriors 30k and 40k Compatible.
I honestly don't think you will see much change to begin with in this regard, from what we have seen rumours wise. Wait to see if Iron Warriors to become a new faction hopefully.
This could be true, however, it also means things like Centurions, Riptides, and other deadlier 7th Ed. shooters get -1 to Hit if they move (depending on how things shake out in the end), which could be good at mitigating some overall damage output..
I doubt it... I would guess that anything that can currently move and fire heavy weapons will have a rule ignoring the -1 penalty.
This could be true, however, it also means things like Centurions, Riptides, and other deadlier 7th Ed. shooters get -1 to Hit if they move (depending on how things shake out in the end), which could be good at mitigating some overall damage output..
I doubt it... I would guess that anything that can currently move and fire heavy weapons will have a rule ignoring the -1 penalty.
This will certainly be true of some models with some previously "heavy weapons", however they did say specifically that vehicles would not be exempt from this rule. So I expect to see quite a few models that previously totted heavy weapons getting penalties, and lots of models potentially having these penalties waived. Hard to say what might happen.
Heavy weapons are worth talking about too. These no longer snap fire if you move, and instead they have a flat -1 to hit modifier for moving units. This applies to all models with heavy weapons, vehicles included.
For vehicles, I would expect that this will replace the current rules limiting how many weapons they can fire on the move. So now they'll be able to fire everything, but with the -1 penalty.
If the 'Heavy' class for vehicles remains, that will probably remove the -1.
This could be true, however, it also means things like Centurions, Riptides, and other deadlier 7th Ed. shooters get -1 to Hit if they move (depending on how things shake out in the end), which could be good at mitigating some overall damage output..
I doubt it... I would guess that anything that can currently move and fire heavy weapons will have a rule ignoring the -1 penalty.
This will certainly be true of some models with some previously "heavy weapons", however they did say specifically that vehicles would not be exempt from this rule. So I expect to see quite a few models that previously totted heavy weapons getting penalties, and lots of models potentially having these penalties waived. Hard to say what might happen.
Heavy weapons are worth talking about too. These no longer snap fire if you move, and instead they have a flat -1 to hit modifier for moving units. This applies to all models with heavy weapons, vehicles included.
Yeah, so that applies to all models. Though they may then have a special rule that negates it, so certain heavy tanks may only be able to move 3", but then can fire at full ballistic skill.
insaniak wrote: For vehicles, I would expect that this will replace the current rules limiting how many weapons they can fire on the move. So now they'll be able to fire everything, but with the -1 penalty.
If the 'Heavy' class for vehicles remains, that will probably remove the -1.
I just don't see them using vehicles types (or additional rules )as a way to figure out which model does or doesn't get the movement penalty. I betcha those won't even exist, and it will just be built into the weapon profile for that model. So a Heavy Bolter on a Razorback will be listed and won't be heavy whereas a Heavy Bolter on a marine will be heavy and it will specify on that unit's profile.
It will allow them model-by-model to decide which units get particular penalties, and not be stuck with a blanket penalty/bonus for being a particular type of unit.
I think the relatively light penalty (-1 instead of BS 1) might give GW more incentive to allow some of the previously relentless units (vehicles explicitly mentioned, but others might also qualify) to end up without a way to compensate.
As a Tau player, I'm hoping that doesn't include battlesuits, because I'm petty like that. Terminators really ought to also be exempt as well. Most MCs and heavier tanks, too.
insaniak wrote: For vehicles, I would expect that this will replace the current rules limiting how many weapons they can fire on the move. So now they'll be able to fire everything, but with the -1 penalty.
If the 'Heavy' class for vehicles remains, that will probably remove the -1.
I just don't see them using vehicles types (or additional rules )as a way to figure out which model does or doesn't get the movement penalty. I betcha those won't even exist, and it will just be built into the weapon profile for that model. So a Heavy Bolter on a Razorback will be listed and won't be heavy whereas a Heavy Bolter on a marine will be heavy and it will specify on that unit's profile.
It will allow them model-by-model to decide which units get particular penalties, and not be stuck with a blanket penalty/bonus for being a particular type of unit.
Given how it's looking like they're going to go by a Sigmar-ish style of unit card, this makes a great deal of sense.
Also, with the do-away of a great deal of special rules, does anyone think they'll do something special for Plasma Weapons again like Gets Hot!?
OK, I am down with unit specific bespoken rules.
How will unit upgrades be handled, then?
Purely in the bespoken fashion, i.e. per the war scroll for the unit in question, add X points for A upgrade, Y points for B and so on?
jeff white wrote: OK, I am down with unit specific bespoken rules.
How will unit upgrades be handled, then?
Purely in the bespoken fashion, i.e. per the war scroll for the unit in question, add X points for A upgrade, Y points for B and so on?
Given that points only exist in one of the three game modes, probably from an armoury in the relevant book.
In the non-points-costed game modes, it will either be 'as per the scenario' or 'put all your models on the table and have at it'.
thats a good guess about how they may deal with the heavy vehicle type... Im super curious to see how they will deal with the 'fast' type. You think it would be as basic as just adding movement?
So the cover system may negate the negative of being able to leave combat.
Unit ends up with 1+ save (cannot fail, like in AOS) a melee unit will be the most efficient way to drive them out. Then they leave and you have ork boyz with a 4+ save instead of a 6+. Sounds clean if that happens to be the way it works...
Unit ends up with 1+ save (cannot fail, like in AOS) a melee unit will be the most efficient way to drive them out. Then they leave and you have ork boyz with a 4+ save instead of a 6+. Sounds clean if that happens to be the way it works...
Man I am really liking the rules so far. As an AoS player its good to see them taking certain aspects from there that work well while deviating on areas that were a bit rough, like shooting into & out of combat.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: 30K is going to continue using the 7th Ed ruleset? But doesn't that require the 7th ed core rulebook, or is there a bespoke Horus Heresy core rulebook?
Take this with as much salt as you like. The Owner of my FLGS was told by his GW Rep he will be able to order core rule books for 30k in the near future. June 17th was the release date given.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Man I am really liking the rules so far. As an AoS player its good to see them taking certain aspects from there that work well while deviating on areas that were a bit rough, like shooting into & out of combat.
I wonder if there's a negative for shooting out of combat though - something they didn't delve into maybe? I imagine you can't shoot out of combat at another unit and then deploy fisticuffs with the unit you're lock in combat with at the same level of effectiveness?
NinthMusketeer wrote: Man I am really liking the rules so far. As an AoS player its good to see them taking certain aspects from there that work well while deviating on areas that were a bit rough, like shooting into & out of combat.
I wonder if there's a negative for shooting out of combat though - something they didn't delve into maybe? I imagine you can't shoot out of combat at another unit and then deploy fisticuffs with the unit you're lock in combat with at the same level of effectiveness?
News stated that you can't shoot in to or out of combat, unlike AOS
I wonder if there's a negative for shooting out of combat though - something they didn't delve into maybe? I imagine you can't shoot out of combat at another unit and then deploy fisticuffs with the unit you're lock in combat with at the same level of effectiveness?
You can't shoot at all if there is an enemy unit within an inch, unless you have a pistol... and even then it looks like you can only shoot at the nearby unit, not someone else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cryonicleech wrote: Slight tangent but does the demonic infestation of Armageddon imply that the conflict there is going to shift towards Imperials vs Chaos?
Or to put it another way, are the Orks taking a back seat, or is this sort of an "enter player 3" type deal?
Chaos were there first
So yes, sort of. With the Ork invasion beaten off, the influence of Chaos is presumably resurgent.
Cryonicleech wrote: Slight tangent but does the demonic infestation of Armageddon imply that the conflict there is going to shift towards Imperials vs Chaos?
Or to put it another way, are the Orks taking a back seat, or is this sort of an "enter player 3" type deal?
I think they are building it up as Imperials Vs. Chaos Vs. Orks royal rumble.
jeff white wrote: OK, I am down with unit specific bespoken rules.
How will unit upgrades be handled, then?
Purely in the bespoken fashion, i.e. per the war scroll for the unit in question, add X points for A upgrade, Y points for B and so on?
As long as it's more structured than those horrific sorta-rules/sorta-prose first paragraphs on the AoS Warscrolls:
"A Space Marine Tactical Squad consists of between 4 and 9 Space Marines who blast the enemy with Boltguns, slice at them with combat knives, lob frag grenades to annihilate their foes, and use their bolt pistols up close. They are led by a heroic Sergeant who has a boltpistol of his own, and a whirring chainsword."
And then somehow you put all a Tac Squads weapon options into that mess. Just list numbers and weapons please. I beg of you GW.
I would be beyond disappointed if they used the same system for upgrades as AoS. Or in other words, no system at all. A given AoS warscroll has one cost regardless of options, which means any player not running the optimum configuration is being punished. This would be one thing if various options were close to each other in effectiveness but that is far from the case, there are weapon options that might as well not exist because they are so significantly worse for the same cost.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I would be beyond disappointed if they used the same system for upgrades as AoS. Or in other words, no system at all. A given AoS warscroll has one cost regardless of options, which means any player not running the optimum configuration is being punished. This would be one thing if various options were close to each other in effectiveness but that is far from the case, there are weapon options that might as well not exist because they are so significantly worse for the same cost.
From their "Three Ways to Play" article, it looks like your worries won't be realized.
jeff white wrote: OK, I am down with unit specific bespoken rules. How will unit upgrades be handled, then? Purely in the bespoken fashion, i.e. per the war scroll for the unit in question, add X points for A upgrade, Y points for B and so on?
As long as it's more structured than those horrific sorta-rules/sorta-prose first paragraphs on the AoS Warscrolls:
"A Space Marine Tactical Squad consists of between 4 and 9 Space Marines who blast the enemy with Boltguns, slice at them with combat knives, lob frag grenades to annihilate their foes, and use their bolt pistols up close. They are led by a heroic Sergeant who has a boltpistol of his own, and a whirring chainsword."
And then somehow you put all a Tac Squads weapon options into that mess. Just list numbers and weapons please. I beg of you GW.
"One Space Marine can be armed with a special weapon instead of a boltgun. He could bring the flame of the Emperor to his foes with a Flamer, crush his foes with the force of a Grav Gun, turn the vehicles of his foul foes to slag with a Meltagun or strike the foes with a shot that contains the power of a miniature star with a Plasma Gun." Furthermore, one additional Space Marine can take to battle with a Heavy Weapon rather than a boltgun. With a fist-sized ammunition of a Heavy Bolter he can obliterate his foes. The immense power of the Grav Cannon will turn his foes to a fine paste under the weight of their own armour. The venerable Lascannon can pierce even the greatest of tanks armoured hide while the Multi-Melta can turn even the hull of Land Raider into a molten mess. If versatility is what is needed on the battlefield, then the Marine will take up a Missile Launcher as his heavy weapon of choice, turning his foes into a light red mist with Frag Missiles, hunting the iron bird of the sky with Flakk Missiles and blowing great hole in the side of vehicles and monsters alike with Krak Missiles.
Frankenberry wrote: I wonder if there's a negative for shooting out of combat though - something they didn't delve into maybe? I imagine you can't shoot out of combat at another unit and then deploy fisticuffs with the unit you're lock in combat with at the same level of effectiveness?
It seems that if you're within 1" of an enemy model you cannot shoot anything at all. However, IF you have pistol weaponry, you can fire your pistols in the shooting phase, but it must be the closest model(s) to the firing unit that is targeted.
It covers shooting out of combat. You HAVE to shoot the closest model or models which, if you're locked in combat, will be the models you're locked in combat with. You won't be able to shoot a squad of Ork Boyz advancing toward the ongoing scrum consisting of a squad of Assault Marines and Gretchin led by a Runtherd. You'd have to fire your pistols at the Gretchin and their Runtherd as they're the closest models to you (Base to Base contact) and then attack them in your assault phase (or assault activation) and hope another unit can deal with the on-rushing Boyz squad.
That's how I read it, anyway.
I like it personally. As an aside, Hand Flamers in a Blood Angels army will get a definite boost, auto hit, with anywhere from D3 to D6 hits per Hand Flamer even when in assault sounds pretty nice in my opinion. I may try and incorporate more more into my army as I continue to build it up, especially in my Death Company. Replace a few Bolt Pistols with Hand Flamers, give them some added offensive power in the shooting phase after getting stuck in on the Assault.
What does the term "bespoken" mean in the new rules? I keep hearing it being used, but can't find it anyway on the GW website. Is it a new class or type of rule? Mez
Mezmaron wrote: What does the term "bespoken" mean in the new rules? I keep hearing it being used, but can't find it anyway on the GW website. Is it a new class or type of rule? Mez
It's not a GW term. It just means that units have rules crafted specifically for them on their unit cards rather than having special rules covered by USRs.
A promise of day 1 get-you-by rules for everything 40K, 30K continues in the vein of 7th.
Whether they choose to exclude units for some reason is possible, but not likely enough to worry about.
Also..
Spoiler:
Bespoke.
Pardon my ignorance but what exactly does a "bespoke" rule entail? I see it referenced on their initial murmurs of the new edition and I see the dictionary definition of it as well. Explain if you will? If it's OT, PM it to me.
Well, I think you probably need to read the thread to get the joke.
But all bespoke means in this context is one-off rules written specifically for a unit or collection of units. Just a "special" rule in 7th Ed speak.
Mezmaron wrote: What does the term "bespoken" mean in the new rules? I keep hearing it being used, but can't find it anyway on the GW website. Is it a new class or type of rule? Mez
it means the rules for the unit are on the datasheet for the unit, instead of being in the BRB.
Going with the Kharadron approach to how a tac squad could easily be written below. Assuming they'll use a General's Handbook approach that would give a unit's max size, too.
A tactical squad has 5 or more models. The marines are armed with boltguns. For every 5 models in the squad, 1 can be instead armed with a flamer, meltagun or missile launcher as a special weapon. A tactical squad may not have duplicate it's specific special weapon choice (e.g., you may not take two flamers or two missile launchers for a 10 marine squad).
Random thing that popped into my head: now that characteristics are no longer capped at ten, do you think they'll change how characteristic tests are taken? E.G. On 2D6?
It covers shooting out of combat. You HAVE to shoot the closest model or models which, if you're locked in combat, will be the models you're locked in combat with. You won't be able to shoot a squad of Ork Boyz advancing toward the ongoing scrum consisting of a squad of Assault Marines and Gretchin led by a Runtherd. You'd have to fire your pistols at the Gretchin and their Runtherd as they're the closest models to you (Base to Base contact) and then attack them in your assault phase (or assault activation) and hope another unit can deal with the on-rushing Boyz squad.
That's how I read it, anyway.
Personally, Red, I took it the other way. The wording is:
"Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat!"
I just think that if they meant you got an extra shot (ahem) at hurting the unit you're locked with, they'd have put it more like "...even the enemy you're fighting!". So effectively it's an anti-bubble wrap/tarpit measure. We'll see in a few weeks, anyway!
Mr_Rose wrote: Random thing that popped into my head: now that characteristics are no longer capped at ten, do you think they'll change how characteristic tests are taken? E.G. On 2D6?
If AoS is an indicator then characteristic tests will no longer exist.
jeff white wrote: OK, I am down with unit specific bespoken rules.
How will unit upgrades be handled, then?
Purely in the bespoken fashion, i.e. per the war scroll for the unit in question, add X points for A upgrade, Y points for B and so on?
Given that points only exist in one of the three game modes, probably from an armoury in the relevant book.
In the non-points-costed game modes, it will either be 'as per the scenario' or 'put all your models on the table and have at it'.
Actually no, there are regular points, just like current 40k, for Matched play, and a second, simpler points system (a la AoS) for narrative play, where you don't pay for unit upgrades etc.
Mr_Rose wrote: Random thing that popped into my head: now that characteristics are no longer capped at ten, do you think they'll change how characteristic tests are taken? E.G. On 2D6?
If AoS is an indicator then characteristic tests will no longer exist.
That would be a poor indicator, given that WH40k is confirmed to have the sort of characteristics subject to characteristic tests (S & T) that AoS lacks by virtue of its more limited statline.
(No Leadership tests in AoS? I don't play, so I don't have good knowledge one way or the other...)
Right before the last thread was closed I noticed something concerning cover. As it is just a save modifier, could there be negative (bad) cover? Standing in a river or near some kind of radioactive material could hurt your armor. Marines could go from a 3+ save to a 4+ save.
Mr_Rose wrote: Random thing that popped into my head: now that characteristics are no longer capped at ten, do you think they'll change how characteristic tests are taken? E.G. On 2D6?
If AoS is an indicator then characteristic tests will no longer exist.
That would be a poor indicator, given that WH40k is confirmed to have the sort of characteristics subject to characteristic tests (S & T) that AoS lacks by virtue of its more limited statline.
(No Leadership tests in AoS? I don't play, so I don't have good knowledge one way or the other...)
Indeed; while Initiative is gone, strength and toughness are staying and hose were the big three that got tested generally.
As for leadership and AoS; they have 'bravery' which is equivalent but morale is not a binary pass/fail test; you roll dice and compare casualties vs the characteristic to determine how many dudes run away. This is apparently being ported wholesale to 8th edition 40k though.
I should have worded that more clearly; I meant to convey some uncertainty with that statement due to reasons mentioned above. I would say there's decent odds of them being eliminated but far from certain.
cuda1179 wrote: Right before the last thread was closed I noticed something concerning cover. As it is just a save modifier, could there be negative (bad) cover? Standing in a river or near some kind of radioactive material could hurt your armor. Marines could go from a 3+ save to a 4+ save.
cuda1179 wrote: Right before the last thread was closed I noticed something concerning cover. As it is just a save modifier, could there be negative (bad) cover? Standing in a river or near some kind of radioactive material could hurt your armor. Marines could go from a 3+ save to a 4+ save.
There has been nothing to hint that terrain will lower your save.
What I am getting at is that the mechanic for it is actually there, something that was impossible before. Even if rules for such terrain aren't in the core rules it would be super easy describe terrain as having that effect. And honestly, I think some terrain would definitely warrant it. This kind of thing has shown up in the Dawn of War games.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: "One Space Marine can be armed with a special weapon instead of a boltgun. He could bring the flame of the Emperor to his foes with a Flamer, crush his foes with the force of a Grav Gun, turn the vehicles of his foul foes to slag with a Meltagun or strike the foes with a shot that contains the power of a miniature star with a Plasma Gun." Furthermore, one additional Space Marine can take to battle with a Heavy Weapon rather than a boltgun. With a fist-sized ammunition of a Heavy Bolter he can obliterate his foes. The immense power of the Grav Cannon will turn his foes to a fine paste under the weight of their own armour. The venerable Lascannon can pierce even the greatest of tanks armoured hide while the Multi-Melta can turn even the hull of Land Raider into a molten mess. If versatility is what is needed on the battlefield, then the Marine will take up a Missile Launcher as his heavy weapon of choice, turning his foes into a light red mist with Frag Missiles, hunting the iron bird of the sky with Flakk Missiles and blowing great hole in the side of vehicles and monsters alike with Krak Missiles.
I think I threw up a little in my mouth.
Uhh... none of this please. Keep fluff and crunch separate please.
I like everything shown so far but I may be biased being one of people who liked AoS ruleset from the start (I still cannot like its fluff though). Hopefully Tyranid swarm armies with few bigger creatures/MCs and walking Tyrants (even without TG wall) will be seen again.
Mezmaron wrote: What does the term "bespoken" mean in the new rules? I keep hearing it being used, but can't find it anyway on the GW website. Is it a new class or type of rule? Mez
The word bespoke specifically means "made to order". It tends to refer to any goods (especially clothes) that are made to order (i.e. they are unique one-offs).
Basically in 40k terms, they are the opposite of a USR.
And in general, this can work, so long as the basic profile and rules interactions provide you ways to make things unique without making a special rule or exception.
In the 3rd-7th paradigm, if you wanted to make a unit faster than average then you'd use the Fleet USR to make them speedier. In RT, 2nd, and now 8th you can do that simply by muddling about with the move value.
In the 3rd-7th paradigm, if you wanted a weapon that was conditionally more effective against armour without ignoring it 100% of the time, you would use a universal rule like Rend to make it less all-or-nothing. In RT, 2nd, and now 8th you simply increase or decrease the save modifier based on the needs.
3rd-7th required a lot of universal rules because after the morass of rules 3rd created to describe things the rules simply couldn't handle within its own basic concepts. Its movement system had no fine-grained way of making some infantry (or what have you) faster than others, all-or-nothing armour meant that for something to be effective against armour without ignoring every save in the game you needed to make exceptions (Rend for the Nids, the special Choppa rule in the 3rd Edition Ork dex). By removing the concept of modifiers and other fine-graded ways of altering effects, they made it impossible to tweak things in certain ways without creating exceptions. So 3rd Edition was a big, messy mass of "bespoke" rules as each codex was left to solve system limitations on its own.
4th came along and tried to fix this with its so-called Universal Special Rules. This was great because there was no longer the issue of a ton of similar but different rules muddying the waters, but the reason it was needed in the first place was because 40k's base system didn't do a lot of heavy lifting on its own like Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition did. But despite this, it never really stopped the proliferation of special rules in armies and what we ended up with by 6th and 7th was a system that had a poor model for basic system interactions that needed a litany of universal rules to subtly modify it while also piling on a bunch of specific special rules to then further differentiate things.
This is part of what I love about 8th and why it feels like a return to RT and 2nd Edition. The statline really can perform a lot of heavy lifting that USR's and even full unit types used to handle in 3rd-7th. By internalizing these interactions and making them part of the basic rules rather than an additional layer of universally applicable exceptions on top of the base system you are now free to basically just use special rules to actual do exceptional things, whereas before special rules were being used to model quite mundane interactions without supplanting and replacing the need for unique special rules to distinguish units further.
40k already had a ton of "bespoke" special rules in addition to the USRs and this piling of exceptions on exceptions is what made it feel cluttered. So cleaning away the layer of USRs and creating a more robust, dynamic system that can handle more nuanced rules interactions means that we can have special rules that feel exceptional rather than like a list of rules fudges to try and bang the system in to the right shape to in order to handle a thing it can't just do by tweaking a couple of stat numbers.
So. After taking time to muse over the news about the shooting phase well at work some thoughts.
For starters the ability for pistol to shoot in CC in the shooting phase means any troop units with pistols got a decent buff in a extra attack they get to make if they survived your opponent's turn. This might actully make Slugga Boys more appealing then Shoota boys for once for some players. A Tac squad have abit more punch now in the 2nd round of CC if they choose to stay stuck in.
It's interesting that Smoke is a "to hit" modifier, but cover is a Armour Modifier. In Necromunda/SWA/2nd ed it was also a To hit modifier. The Snap Fire being replaced by a -1 to hit on the move is also very interesting. The Question now I guess is how these changes effect Jinx and Overwatch, if these are even still rules in the system.
Back in the day, I started a Slaaneshi CSM army because I found it cool. Eventually, I found out that was a bad idea. Sure enough, I kept losing to my best friend's Flying Tyrant-led army all the time and getting obliterated at local tournaments. Primarily owing to the horrible, unbalanced post-5th-yet-not-quite-6th rules and points costs hampering me from building a strong thematic army for a few years. Over and over again, even after switching to the somewhat better-off DE, trounced by Gundam IK armies, Frankensteinian deathstars, unkillable Necrons and "game format + 300 pts. of free units" formations. Knowing that a brand new edition is coming with all the more or less positive changes so far described, I'm actually quite hopeful. Enough of Eldar plug-ins and shelving units that are subpar, time for thematic armies to become viable again!
jeff white wrote: OK, I am down with unit specific bespoken rules.
How will unit upgrades be handled, then?
Purely in the bespoken fashion, i.e. per the war scroll for the unit in question, add X points for A upgrade, Y points for B and so on?
Given that points only exist in one of the three game modes, probably from an armoury in the relevant book.
In the non-points-costed game modes, it will either be 'as per the scenario' or 'put all your models on the table and have at it'.
There's two points modes: narrative's powerlevel and matched play's.
When they are talking about bespoke rules remember that they are talking about the keyword system from AoS. It let's them be very specific about what rules interact with what units. AoS is able to be very peticulur about who benafits from what.
You don't seem to get the unintentional combos like you do in current 40k where you start stacking the difference bonuses from formations, special characters, and allies.
I feel this is a very good move on the part of GW.
Also all this talk of bespoke keeps making me think of this.
Mr_Rose wrote: Random thing that popped into my head: now that characteristics are no longer capped at ten, do you think they'll change how characteristic tests are taken? E.G. On 2D6?
If AoS is an indicator then characteristic tests will no longer exist.
That would be a poor indicator, given that WH40k is confirmed to have the sort of characteristics subject to characteristic tests (S & T) that AoS lacks by virtue of its more limited statline.
(No Leadership tests in AoS? I don't play, so I don't have good knowledge one way or the other...)
AoS does sorta have characteristics tests, but it usually the attacker rolling for it, not the target. Like psychic scream in 40K.
They go on the "bravery" "to hit" and "to wound" stats, like the bladewind spell of the sorceress on black dragon. Throw 6 blades at the target, he rolls to hit with a melee weapon on each of these 6, for each miss he suffers a mortal wound.
Concerning pistols now being able to shoot in CC probably resulting in the rule for pistols counting as an extra CCW going away...except for Orks that is actually better than getting another CCW attack (methinks Orks will get another base attack to compensate), as shooting still happens before the close combat phase... so in multi-turn combat you can thin out your opponent's squad before they even get to hit you, in many cases with a better to-hit chance to boot. Especially potent if you are using plasma/flamer/melta pistols. Also a big buff to powerfist/claw models with a gun who didn't get any bonus attack to begin with.
With the new activation instead of initiative that's a pretty big deal, especially if your opponent then picks that fight and his troops swing first.
Also makes for an interesting tactical choice: Pull out of a melee combat and forgo shooting and melee or stay in the fight to deal extra shooting damage before the enemy gets to swing again?
Great buff for pistols in general and the new edition already looks so much better than the last one. They are sorting out problems and issues that have been with 40k since the launch of the 3rd Edition if not earlier.
Lockark wrote: It's interesting that Smoke is a "to hit" modifier, but cover is a Armour Modifier. In Necromunda/SWA/2nd ed it was also a To hit modifier. The Snap Fire being replaced by a -1 to hit on the move is also very interesting. The Question now I guess is how these changes effect Jinx and Overwatch, if these are even still rules in the system.
It definitely seems as though they're adding a distinction between the different origins of a traditional cover save. Physical obstacles that protect troops (like ruins and trees) can be overcome by sufficiently strong firepower, so it makes sense for them to modify the usual saving throw while also being negated by very strong weapons. However situations that make units much harder to hit (like smoke, holofields, moving very quickly, etc) ideally should have always been reflected in the To Hit roll, and it seems that now they will. This means that particularly well-trained marksmen will be more effective here.
I wouldn't be surprised to see units like Harlequins and Venomthropes benefit from a negative To Hit modifier rather than a better saving throw, while units like snipers and Vindicares get special rules allowing them to ignore a certain number of To Hit modifiers.
xttz wrote: It definitely seems as though they're adding a distinction between the different origins of a traditional cover save. Physical obstacles that protect troops (like ruins and trees) can be overcome by sufficiently strong firepower, so it makes sense for them to modify the usual saving throw while also being negated by very strong weapons. However situations that make units much harder to hit (like smoke, holofields, moving very quickly, etc) ideally should have always been reflected in the To Hit roll, and it seems that now they will. This means that particularly well-trained marksmen will be more effective here.
I wouldn't be surprised to see units like Harlequins and Venomthropes benefit from a negative To Hit modifier rather than a better saving throw, while units like snipers and Vindicares get special rules allowing them to ignore a certain number of To Hit modifiers.
I would love seeing snipers that are actually better at shooting than some normal troops and elites (Eldar Rangers vs all other Eldar troops and elites), great if the new edition will make this possible.
xttz wrote: It definitely seems as though they're adding a distinction between the different origins of a traditional cover save. Physical obstacles that protect troops (like ruins and trees) can be overcome by sufficiently strong firepower, so it makes sense for them to modify the usual saving throw while also being negated by very strong weapons. However situations that make units much harder to hit (like smoke, holofields, moving very quickly, etc) ideally should have always been reflected in the To Hit roll, and it seems that now they will. This means that particularly well-trained marksmen will be more effective here.
I wouldn't be surprised to see units like Harlequins and Venomthropes benefit from a negative To Hit modifier rather than a better saving throw, while units like snipers and Vindicares get special rules allowing them to ignore a certain number of To Hit modifiers.
I would love seeing snipers that are actually better at shooting than some normal troops and elites (Eldar Rangers vs all other Eldar troops and elites), great if the new edition will make this possible.
Welcome to DakkaDakka I agree, this is a great chance to separate weapons properly, and give them all a good role that is points appropriate.
Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
I thought it was just that you can use them in combat, not use them to shoot at a different unit out of combat.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
Isn't that supposed to be shooting into combat? Like, a Space Marine shoots one enemy in the head with a bolt pistol then tears apart the other with a chainsword? At least that's the way I interpreted the description.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
The restrictions mean that they can only shoot enemies they are in CC with (closest enemies). So they can't shoot out.
xttz wrote: It definitely seems as though they're adding a distinction between the different origins of a traditional cover save. Physical obstacles that protect troops (like ruins and trees) can be overcome by sufficiently strong firepower, so it makes sense for them to modify the usual saving throw while also being negated by very strong weapons. However situations that make units much harder to hit (like smoke, holofields, moving very quickly, etc) ideally should have always been reflected in the To Hit roll, and it seems that now they will. This means that particularly well-trained marksmen will be more effective here.
I wouldn't be surprised to see units like Harlequins and Venomthropes benefit from a negative To Hit modifier rather than a better saving throw, while units like snipers and Vindicares get special rules allowing them to ignore a certain number of To Hit modifiers.
I would love seeing snipers that are actually better at shooting than some normal troops and elites (Eldar Rangers vs all other Eldar troops and elites), great if the new edition will make this possible.
Indeed, it will be nice to have a distinction between being hard to hit because you're very quick, or being hard to hit because you're hiding behind a hedge. The latter was the justification for Destroyer weapons ignoring cover saves, but made no sense for the former.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
It pretty obviously says you can only shoot the unit you're in combat with per the 1" and "closest unit" stuff.
What this does is make Plasma Pistols/Grav Pistols/Inferno Pistols/Hand Flamers/etc actually worthwhile, particularly the first two which you almost never see. It would be great for Plasma Pistols in particular given how common they used to be.
It's a pretty notable buff to Space Marines who almost always come equipped with Bolt Pistols, whereas the basic units of many other armies - i.e. Fire Warriors, Guardians/Dire Avengers, Imperial Guardsmen, Kabalite Warriors, Termagants, Shoota Boyz, etc - don't have pistols. This also really helps Slugga Boyz and Storm Guardians.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
It pretty obviously says you can only shoot the unit you're in combat with per the 1" and "closest unit" stuff.
What this does is make Plasma Pistols/Grav Pistols/Inferno Pistols/Hand Flamers/etc actually worthwhile, particularly the first two which you almost never see. It would be great for Plasma Pistols in particular given how common they used to be.
It's a pretty notable buff to Space Marines who almost always come equipped with Bolt Pistols, whereas the basic units of many other armies - i.e. Fire Warriors, Guardians/Dire Avengers, Imperial Guardsmen, Kabalite Warriors, Termagants, Shoota Boyz, etc - don't have pistols. This also really helps Slugga Boyz and Storm Guardians.
Yes, it's also interesting how it actually makes Tac. Marines.... more tactical. But at the same time I wonder if True Grit is going to make a comeback, with GK having native high rend I can see the codex moving to a wipe them out in one phase style. It's actually interesting thinking where this will lead.
I would love seeing snipers that are actually better at shooting than some normal troops and elites (Eldar Rangers vs all other Eldar troops and elites), great if the new edition will make this possible.
Yeah, Sniper Rifles was one thing old editions didn't do well. "Now here you have this scoped, accurized rifle you are trained to use. You have 50% chance of hitting that house-sized creature."
In related subject, I wonder if this is going to be Heavy Weapons edition. Monstrous Creatures will have double the wounds. Probably IC's will have also more wounds than in current edition. Terminators have 2 wounds. It doesn't sound like small arms fire is going to be very effective? Sure thing, they have that odd chance of taking a wound from a Tank which they did not have before. But in the past, one was at least little bit cautious going next to Tactical Squad with a Daemon Prince or Carnifex because you might easily lose 1-2 Wounds to Rapid fire and become an easy kill even if you don't die. Now, it's going to be much less scary.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I guess I didn't consider the unit you're in HTH with to be the one you can shoot, given you're in HTH with them.
Yeah I understand what you are saying, though there is alot of examples in the fluff of dudes using their pistols in close combat. Infact, I was reading Flight of the Eisenstein again today (building up that DG hype), both Grulgor and Kaleb use their pistols while fighting.
It isn't exactly honourable, though it is up to you if you want your force to show honour or not
All of a sudden the plasma pistol is just 1 strength shy of a power fist upgrade plus it has range! I always wanted to actually use a plasma pistol upgrade on a CSM champion or berzerker. Also I always wanted to use berserkers.
macluvin wrote: All of a sudden the plasma pistol is just 1 strength shy of a power fist upgrade plus it has range! I always wanted to actually use a plasma pistol upgrade on a CSM champion or berzerker. Also I always wanted to use berserkers.
I would love seeing snipers that are actually better at shooting than some normal troops and elites (Eldar Rangers vs all other Eldar troops and elites), great if the new edition will make this possible.
Yeah, Sniper Rifles was one thing old editions didn't do well. "Now here you have this scoped, accurized rifle you are trained to use. You have 50% chance of hitting that house-sized creature."
In related subject, I wonder if this is going to be Heavy Weapons edition. Monstrous Creatures will have double the wounds. Probably IC's will have also more wounds than in current edition. Terminators have 2 wounds. It doesn't sound like small arms fire is going to be very effective? Sure thing, they have that odd chance of taking a wound from a Tank which they did not have before. But in the past, one was at least little bit cautious going next to Tactical Squad with a Daemon Prince or Carnifex because you might easily lose 1-2 Wounds to Rapid fire and become an easy kill even if you don't die. Now, it's going to be much less scary.
Didn't sniper rifles use to hit on 2+ in 4th ed? I remember them being much more accurate than now.
In related subject, I wonder if this is going to be Heavy Weapons edition. Monstrous Creatures will have double the wounds. Probably IC's will have also more wounds than in current edition. Terminators have 2 wounds. It doesn't sound like small arms fire is going to be very effective? Sure thing, they have that odd chance of taking a wound from a Tank which they did not have before. But in the past, one was at least little bit cautious going next to Tactical Squad with a Daemon Prince or Carnifex because you might easily lose 1-2 Wounds to Rapid fire and become an easy kill even if you don't die. Now, it's going to be much less scary.
The thing with dedicated heavy anti tank weapons is that they are either have quite a premium cost (Lascannons) or serious drawbacks such as range (Meltas) or being a middle of the road, master of none kinda deal that suffers against the heaviest 'vehicles' (missile launchers, if I guess right and they will be D3 wounds and AP/rend -2 with krak). Also one thing they have in common: they are very ineffective against horde armies.
If expensive heavy weapons become the meta for a while, there will be an easy counter-meta in the form of high model count horde armies, keeping the situation balanced. Meanwhile now much tougher vehicles and MCs (which are basically getting unified) and other rules such as saves reduce the effectiveness of high-volume hybrid weapons that are also good at dealing with infantry such autocannons or other S6/S7 weapons against them big time if they don't have a serious AP/rend value or inflict multiple wounds, preventing them from dominating like they are now or becoming to established. Balance looks good so far from what we have seen.
Vulkan_He'stan wrote: The new pistol rule will be interesting, especially if units like the death company can still all take an inferno pistol
There is an Inferno Pistol in each Death Company kit, so I can guarantee that they will. Whether or not Blood Angels Assault Squads will be able to take them is not for sure though. Regardless, I am thinking I will make a squad with three Plasma Pistols (I don't like gunslingers so the Sergeant won't have two). Should be fun. But if Assault Squads can still take an Inferno Pistol, I am making a squad with three or four of them. My Captain with a Power Sword and Plasma Pistol probably got a little boost.
I really do doubt that the +1 Attack for having a Pistol will remain in place. If it does, assault units are going to be nuts.
Today we are just getting the Charge phase. That it is called out as its own phase makes me think Overwatch is staying in the game.
The thing with dedicated heavy anti tank weapons is that they are either have quite a premium cost (Lascannons) or serious drawbacks such as range (Meltas) or being a middle of the road, master of none kinda deal that suffers against the heaviest 'vehicles' (missile launchers, if I guess right and they will be D3 wounds and AP/rend -2 with krak). Also one thing they have in common: they are very ineffective against horde armies.
If expensive heavy weapons become the meta for a while, there will be an easy counter-meta in the form of high model count horde armies, keeping the situation balanced. Meanwhile now much tougher vehicles and MCs (which are basically getting unified) and other rules such as saves reduce the effectiveness of high-volume hybrid weapons that are also good at dealing with infantry such autocannons or other S6/S7 weapons against them big time if they don't have a serious AP/rend value or inflict multiple wounds, preventing them from dominating like they are now or becoming to established. Balance looks good so far from what we have seen.
I was not talking about unit balance or factional balance which we have very little idea of. I was wondering whether infantry basic weapons are going to be useful in this edition or are the squads going to be defined by their special/heavy weapons? It seems like none of the Small Arms will have any Rend, so their effectiveness even against other Infantry are reduced since even 6+ saves will always work.
But obviously there are still many unknowns.
Oh if I can field it, my Assault Squad Sergeant is getting an Inferno Pistol, and several of my Death Company minis are getting hand flamers. That's happening.
So happy I went with a Hand Flamer on my Captain now. I expect he will be able get D3 (or maybe D6, but I doubt it) automatic hits while in melee. Yes please.
In related subject, I wonder if this is going to be Heavy Weapons edition. Monstrous Creatures will have double the wounds. Probably IC's will have also more wounds than in current edition. Terminators have 2 wounds. It doesn't sound like small arms fire is going to be very effective? Sure thing, they have that odd chance of taking a wound from a Tank which they did not have before. But in the past, one was at least little bit cautious going next to Tactical Squad with a Daemon Prince or Carnifex because you might easily lose 1-2 Wounds to Rapid fire and become an easy kill even if you don't die. Now, it's going to be much less scary.
The thing with dedicated heavy anti tank weapons is that they are either have quite a premium cost (Lascannons) or serious drawbacks such as range (Meltas) or being a middle of the road, master of none kinda deal that suffers against the heaviest 'vehicles' (missile launchers, if I guess right and they will be D3 wounds and AP/rend -2 with krak). Also one thing they have in common: they are very ineffective against horde armies.
If expensive heavy weapons become the meta for a while, there will be an easy counter-meta in the form of high model count horde armies, keeping the situation balanced. Meanwhile now much tougher vehicles and MCs (which are basically getting unified) and other rules such as saves reduce the effectiveness of high-volume hybrid weapons that are also good at dealing with infantry such autocannons or other S6/S7 weapons against them big time if they don't have a serious AP/rend value or inflict multiple wounds, preventing them from dominating like they are now or becoming to established. Balance looks good so far from what we have seen.
I'm beginning to think Genestealer Cults are going to be really powerful, their horde MSU style means they can easily fill out the larger FOC's and get lots of Command Points, if the restrictions on charging are removed like it looks like they are then there's no need for the D6 table for Cult Ambush, it'll always be powerful, and every Acolyte can take a Hand Flamer. Heavy weapons wont mean mcu hto them since they don't take much in the way of vehicles and MC's as it is.
The thing with dedicated heavy anti tank weapons is that they are either have quite a premium cost (Lascannons) or serious drawbacks such as range (Meltas) or being a middle of the road, master of none kinda deal that suffers against the heaviest 'vehicles' (missile launchers, if I guess right and they will be D3 wounds and AP/rend -2 with krak). Also one thing they have in common: they are very ineffective against horde armies.
If expensive heavy weapons become the meta for a while, there will be an easy counter-meta in the form of high model count horde armies, keeping the situation balanced. Meanwhile now much tougher vehicles and MCs (which are basically getting unified) and other rules such as saves reduce the effectiveness of high-volume hybrid weapons that are also good at dealing with infantry such autocannons or other S6/S7 weapons against them big time if they don't have a serious AP/rend value or inflict multiple wounds, preventing them from dominating like they are now or becoming to established. Balance looks good so far from what we have seen.
I was not talking about unit balance or factional balance which we have very little idea of. I was wondering whether infantry basic weapons are going to be useful in this edition or are the squads going to be defined by their special/heavy weapons? It seems like none of the Small Arms will have any Rend, so their effectiveness even against other Infantry are reduced since even 6+ saves will always work.
But obviously there are still many unknowns.
I wouldn't be so worried, Marine players might like whining abotu the bolter being useless but Guard, Eldar and Tau basic infantry just die in droves to them (hell, as a Dark Eldar player I've lost more vehicles to standard bolters than almost anything else). If Pulse rifles are still S5, Shurican with AP-3 on 6's, Splinter wounds anything not a vehicle on a 4+ then they'll still have their use.
I've put a lot of thought into this. It's still way to early to get any specifics, but I think there are a few definite possibilities.
Pistol to the Face It means that units with pistols can be a lot more effective in 'getting in peoples' faces.
Orks with sluggas, for example. Seraphim with Twin Hand Flamers will be extremely deadly. Plasma pistols might actually become a thing again, especially if they are STR 7, AV -2
Units that cannot stand in assault I expect will usually want to fall back. 10 guard in a line will break and run. If there is no way to 'catch them' and prevent them from running, this perk might not be the bee's knees.
I'm not sure how often only being able to shoot pistols if a unit is 1" away will come up. Will that negate overwatch? If the move phase is before the shooting phase, you can just take a step back and unload.
Heavy Metal Heavy weapons are undergoing a massive change. Being -1 to hit for moving increases their value with tactical squads, and decreases their value on armor.
This means scat bikes will be hitting on a 4+ if they move, which significantly lowers the amount of damage a scat bike army can do.
It also means ork rokkits on dreads are not a bad thing at all. At least they are not being knocked down to hitting on a 6+. Imperial dreads and hellbrutes with dual gun configurations are now less desirable than one with a power fist and weapon.
It also means we will see more heavy weapons deployed in tactical squads. That multi-melta suddenly becomes a much better weapon. A combat-squadded devastator squad with 4 of them rolling around in 2 rhinos shooting out the hatch becomes a bit more scary.
If Vulcan can still twin-link that Multi-Meltas, they would be hitting 75% of the time, making them extremely nasty.
This change is also a kick in the pants to soulgrinders. Their harvester cannon will not be nearly as effective hitting on a 5+. If they still get a flame template option, that will probably be the 'go-to'.
If the grinders have a 5+ save, they will be autocannon bait. If AC's don't have a save modifier, they will inflict twice the amount of damage on grinders than dreads.
Again, we will have to wait and see....
Life After the Cover Save There seem to be two types of cover, the kind that obscures and the kind you hide behind. It seems they can be combined for extremely durable units.
Will it be just 'smoke' that causes a unit to impose negatives on the 'to-hit' of enemy shots? Will a darkshroud now give a -2 to enemy shots? Will daemons of nurgle be -1 or -2 to hit? We will have to see what the rules for shrouding and stealth are.
If 'shrouded', combined with the -1 for moving heavy weapons, it means that that daemon prince of nurgle might be extremely hard to pluck out of the air with a lascannon.
Cover adding to armor saves also has dramatic effects on units. Due to the way the d6 dice work, the effect is more dramatic as you go to the edge boundary. IE, power armored troops in cover double their resistance of incoming attacks by going from a 3+ save to a 2+ save. IG in cover are a ~50% more durable.
Combining them double dips unit durability. A unit with camo-cloaks (-1 to hit) in cover (4+ save to a 3+ save) double their durability to small arms fire -- just like power armored troops.
(10 bolter shots would kill .833~ scouts instead of killing 1.66~)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
insaniak wrote: I doubt it... I would guess that anything that can currently move and fire heavy weapons will have a rule ignoring the -1 penalty.
Why would the post have said "This applies to all models with heavy weapons, vehicles included." Vehicles being specifically included suggests otherwise. While I expect the 'heavy' rule on vehicles will ignore than penalty (LRBT), but most vehicles they will have to stand still.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
thenewgozoku wrote: Monstrous creatures had a serious limit on how many weapons they could fire. Also I can't remember now how many of those are heavy.
Riptides come to mind.... If they want to be fully effective, they will need to sit in one spot and not move around.
They might still be able to jump after shooting though and not effect their following turn.
I really, REALLY hope Vulkan He'stan still TL's all your meltas. For once an army I have already built will actually be super effective. (I usually go for the underdogs lol)
If I get back into 40K (I've only ever played 5th Ed), I'll want to houserule templates back into the game.
This has been a weird one for me too.
The removal of templates makes for faster play. If I want to run blocks of 30 orks, I can now use a movement tray and push a group of 30 of them across the board. If I want to bring 100 daemonettes I can do the same in 20 woman blocks. The idea here is that now horde armies can be a LOT faster to play. Bringing 150 orks to the table is not longer 'crazy talk' for competitive, timed play. You are only moving 5 trays per turn.
In games where my opponent had a lot of blast templates, much of my turn would be spent using my 2" spacer to edge out all of my models to ensure I had maximum coherency between my units. It was a burdensome time-sink that did not add to the pleasure of either person's game.
I don't have to use movement trays. If I want to maximize coverage, I can still spread out my models across the board. The idea is that it gives the OPTION to play horde armies quickly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nintura wrote: I really, REALLY hope Vulkan He'stan still TL's all your meltas. For once an army I have already built will actually be super effective. (I usually go for the underdogs lol)
TL melta's when you are hitting on a 3+ is good, but not super. You go from hitting 2/3 of the time to 8/9 of the time.
Going from hitting 1/2 of the time to 75% of the time is a much better jump. Vulcan melta-flamer heavy armies might actually become a thing again.
Think of the way tanks are going to work. They are going to be like a mini-MC. Instead of AV11 with 3HPs, the rhino will have a T6 or T7 with 6 or 7 wounds and a 3+ save. (I'm making a guess here). This is a huge boost for durability of the units inside, and using the rhino as a shooting platform seems completely viable. While the idea of fire points might be removed, my guess if that 2 units will still be able to shoot out the hatch.
In order to balance out the save modifiers (as well as high wound count), I would expect- I also really, really hope- that rerollable saves will no longer exist, or at least become much rarer and/or the 2nd save is weaker than the 1st. As far as I'm concerned, if those Tzeentch/Ravenwing armies and super special Mary-Sue HQ characters take one to the butt, it will be much better for the other armies and the game in general, as a ~2-3% chance of failing saves on a D6 system is pretty unfair against armies that are lucky to reduce that chance of failure to 17%.
On a separate note, I wonder if bikers will lose their +1T buff and instead get an extra wound or two, much like many other units are receiving. Perhaps, dare I say it, the poor IG Rough Riders will become relevant with 2 or 3 wounds!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
They are quite possibly moving the usage of the pistol from "Extra close combat weapon" to shooting phase. I guess they no longer want a simple pistol to provide, for example, an extra power weapon or power fist CC attack.
Its probably just a simple shift of pistols in the abstraction of CC and Shooting phase.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
They are quite possibly moving the usage of the pistol from "Extra close combat weapon" to shooting phase. I guess they no longer want a simple pistol to provide, for example, an extra power weapon or power fist CC attack.
Its probably just a simple shift of pistols in the abstraction of CC and Shooting phase.
It makes the game easier to learn. "You make a number of attacks equal to your attack characteristic."
Done. No need for pistols that sometimes add an attack and sometimes not, no need for the +1A for charging (striking first is enough of a bonus).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone explain why pistols can shoot out of combat, during combat?
Does the wild melee of bloody HTH combat pause for a moment to let those with pistols pop off a few shots nearby. Do the Hormagaunts or Bloodletters wait patiently for the Marines to send off a volley at a different (and likely not as pressing) unit of their kinsmen?
As far as abstractions go, this is a weird 'un.
No, because it specifically says you can fire only at the closest unit. So let's list the number of times that the closest unit would not also be the unit you're in combat with?
...........
Anyone?
Bueller?
The biggest problem with this rule I can see is (unless they change charging to happen in the Movement phase, I dont remember if Sigmar does that or not) you'll almost never use it.
Turn you charge in - you're shooting normally. Your opponents turn - you don't get a shooting phase. Until you get all the way around to your turn, provided the combat is still going on AND your opponent hasn't opted to just stroll casually out AND you've got enough pistols to make a difference...you get a few pistol shots.
Will pistols in melee be the "soulblaze" of 8th edition 40k? Or will there be some kind of change in place to allow you to make use of the rule? Only time will tell.
KommissarKiln wrote: In order to balance out the save modifiers (as well as high wound count), I would expect- I also really, really hope- that rerollable saves will no longer exist, or at least become much rarer and/or the 2nd save is weaker than the 1st. As far as I'm concerned, if those Tzeentch/Ravenwing armies and super special Mary-Sue HQ characters take one to the butt, it will be much better for the other armies and the game in general, as a ~2-3% chance of failing saves on a D6 system is pretty unfair against armies that are lucky to reduce that chance of failure to 17%.
Going the AOS route the Mary Sues will not have boatloads of saves, just a bunch of wounds. Most heroes have 5 wounds in AOS so can take a light beating.
KommissarKiln wrote: In order to balance out the save modifiers (as well as high wound count), I would expect- I also really, really hope- that rerollable saves will no longer exist, or at least become much rarer and/or the 2nd save is weaker than the 1st. As far as I'm concerned, if those Tzeentch/Ravenwing armies and super special Mary-Sue HQ characters take one to the butt, it will be much better for the other armies and the game in general, as a ~2-3% chance of failing saves on a D6 system is pretty unfair against armies that are lucky to reduce that chance of failure to 17%.
On a separate note, I wonder if bikers will lose their +1T buff and instead get an extra wound or two, much like many other units are receiving. Perhaps, dare I say it, the poor IG Rough Riders will become relevant with 2 or 3 wounds!
#MakeRoughRidersGreatForOnce
Rerollable saves were game-breakers. Since GW got many of the competitive players actively involved in the playtesting, I expect them to be extremely rare or removed altogether. Fortune might be a 9+ power to cast.
After reading the rules again, I don't see the big deal about pistols. Those get to shoot during the shooting phase even if in combat. Now let's take an example of a Seraphim unit with two pairs of inferno pistols. First case: the Seraphim get the charge. - Currently: I do 4 inferno shots. Then I charge, and we resolve close combat. Then, supposing everyone stays alive and in combat, it's my opponent turn. We do close combat again. If once again both units are still alive and none flee, I will try to use Hit and Run to disengage. If I manage to do it, I can shoot my inferno pistols again. If not, I can't. - With the new rules: I do 4 inferno shots. Then I charge, and we resolve close combat. Then, supposing everyone stays alive and in combat, it's my opponent turn. We do close combat again. If once again both units are still alive and none flee, I will try to use Hit and Run to disengage. But even if I fail I can shoot my inferno pistols again.
Yeah, it's definitely better, but it seems to be only marginally so.
labmouse42 wrote: I've put a lot of thought into this. It's still way to early to get any specifics, but I think there are a few definite possibilities.
Pistol to the Face It means that units with pistols can be a lot more effective in 'getting in peoples' faces.
Orks with sluggas, for example. Seraphim with Twin Hand Flamers will be extremely deadly. Plasma pistols might actually become a thing again, especially if they are STR 7, AV -2
Units that cannot stand in assault I expect will usually want to fall back. 10 guard in a line will break and run. If there is no way to 'catch them' and prevent them from running, this perk might not be the bee's knees.
I'm not sure how often only being able to shoot pistols if a unit is 1" away will come up. Will that negate overwatch? If the move phase is before the shooting phase, you can just take a step back and unload.
What do you mean? You'll be able to shoot pistols in close combat, as simple as that. You can't take a step back and unload because if you retreat you can't shoot or charge.
Mymearan wrote: What do you mean? You'll be able to shoot pistols in close combat, as simple as that. You can't take a step back and unload because if you retreat you can't shoot or charge.
- Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat!
- When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units, much like the current edition.
Unless there is an exception that lets you shoot the unit you are locked in CC with, pistols will be used to shoot the next closest unit (not the one you are currently engaged in)
The idea here is that a unit with twin-linked hand flamers would be able to do d6 hits per model to the NEXT closest unit. 5 Seraphim would be 4d6 hand flamer hits + 6 bolt pistols shot. If TL still lets you re-roll to wounds, that would be a ~14 TL hits, and 4 STR 4 hits.
Edit : I might be misreading these rules. It would not be the first time. Edit : Correction on the number of TL flamers Seraphim can use.
So after sifting through a lot of opinions, Warhammer Community posts, screen-capped Twitter posts by Foley and enough salty tears to make me thinks I was floating in the Dead Sea while reading I felt it a good time to sit down, sift through it all and share my thoughts. Plus the Astropath Choir at home was down so I didn't have anything better to do at the time.
Stat Line Changes So, at least initially it seemed like the most contention fell imto this category. People didn't see a point in giving everyone the same statline to work with, and the idea that a lasgun had the (very faint potential) of hurting a Land Raider was a more heretical notion than a Black Templar Librarian.
As I see it the simplification to a single statline does a few things:
+ balance between MC and vehicles is easier to achieve
+ no more arguements on if something "should" be a vehicle or MC
+ improved durability to most weapons for vehicles (someone did some math and said comparing the old Dread statline to the new one the new one took 111 Scatterlaser shots to the 40 it'd take to kill one on average now assuming the old one was standing in cover)
+ movement stats rid the need for special rules just to make armies like Eldar and Tyranids "feel" faster, streamlining te game
+ removal of initiative simplifies combat order and ensures formally slow weapons have more potential to be used in combat (welcome back Power Fist Sergeants!)
+ removal of the to-hit and WS charts streamline combat in favor of telling you what you need to roll to hit while shooting/punching while also allowing for modifiers (say, as a possible example, a Nurgle unit having a thick cloud of flies in melee that makes it harder for you to hit because you can't see your target in melee) this makes it easier for new players to get intoe game and removes clutter most veteran players didn't need anyways because we'd memorized the charts.
+ two-hit rolls for melee replacing WS honestly makes me feel like we're representing the abilities of the model more than we were before. It's still an abstraction, but not getting hit in a large melee is harder than hitting something and this feels like it reflectsthat.
All in all the changes feel largely positive, and it really feels like The move is to make things easier to learn while leaving a lot of room for nuances in how different units interact in combat through modifiers instead of needing to have charts handy all the time.
The change to assault makes weapon choices feel a lot like "never take this" will be a lot less common with options like the trusty Powerfist being more likely to swing as long as you time your unit activations/Command Point usage well during tha Assault Phase.
Shooting As a Sisters player for the most part it is safe to say I am someone who is pretty keen on the Shooting phase. And what little we've learned so far has me interested as it feels like the move is towards a faster playing, more mobile shooting game than before:
+/- Templates are gone. RIP little plastic buddies. By buddies I of course mean my collection of flamer templates because not even my Avenger Strike Fighters got equipped with blast weapons. Seriously though, the removal means one less thing to keep track of (or lose) and to purchase. Sure they're iconic, but so was the red whippy stick and that died several editions ago. I am on the fence to see how Blast weapons work but in the mean time what I saw from Flamers works just fine for me. I suspect Hand Flamers will turn into D3 weapons though. Heavy Flamers however may see a boost in range and potential damage over the D6 (perhaps 2D3?) which would fit weapon better.
+ Heavy Weapons only suffer a -1 to shoot after you move (even for vehicles). This right here opens up massive amounts of mobility into the game. Sure Orks don't care because they either Snap Fired at BS1 or had an Assault Weapon, but for your average armies this means repositioning is less of a question and more open to do. Ditching blast templates means that these weapons will likely ditch the "move or fire" option that held a lot of weapons back too. Overall this is a great change.
+ Pistols (and only pistols) can shoot units within 1" during the shooting phases (this means you can shoot someone in the face the turn after they charged you) This may be A change that benefits Sisters of Battle the most, but I feel it can go a long way for a lot of units. For Sisters the benefit is pretty obvious: the army gains a big counter-charge punch because nearly every model in the army has a bolt pistol. Hit on 3+ at S4 is way better than (I assume) punch on 4+ at S3. This means a Battle Sisers unit that is charged can choose to disenae (losing all other actions for the turn) to let another unit take shots at the unit that charged the turn before OR shoot said enemy unit in the face before pummeling them in the face with their tiny ceramite-clad lady-fists. Or the random Powe Weapon/Eviscerator. For pretty much most armies this means a lot more damage done over less turns making assaults last for fewer turns, while also allowing for more generalist units (like Tactical Marines or Battle Sisters) get a chance to stand up to melee-focused units like Genestealers who ignore the shooting phase but can deal out a fair number of wounds in melee. Plus Bolt Pistol/Chainsword becomes a power combination in some rights as it can shoot and then chop making armies like Black Templars or (people who have weird fetishes for Assault Marines) very happy.
+ Cover modifies the saving trough directly. Not only does this add a touch of thematic element to the game where super lasers, acid beetles and explosive mini rockets are more likely to be shot at you through the wall rather than over it, but it streamlines the saving system as this means increasing tour save by the cover modifier then subtracting the rend value (if their is one) giving you an easier to learn mechanic that still benfits from good tactics. Plus putting a wall between you and oncoming bullets is generally seen as a sound tactical choice anyways so rewarding tactical thinking (and nice, densely packed boards full of terrain instead of the barren moonscape of so many tables) is always a good thing in my book. Then aain my favorite game type int he past was City Fight so I am aware of my biases on this.
+ Rend values can drop armour saves. I love this because it brings a sense of granularity to the game that the old "all your save or nothing" lacked without really making the game complex. Especially since most basic weapons seem like they will hae a rend value of 0 (I will laugh if the lasgun actually gives your armour save a +1 though). It's a mechanics I emember in WHFB that I always felt would work in 40k and I am glad to see it make it's way over finally.
All around the shooting phase changes look good, with things like the ability to actually move units more with less punishment for doing so, modifiers to saves coming into play (something that'll carry over into the Assault Phase as well), pistols being more useful than purchasing for just +1 attack or using them just so you can charge after you take a couple small pot shots, and generally a move to quicker gameplay by removing templates and scatter die in favor for variable rolls on how many wounds are dealt (to a unit or individual model) mean that the game will move quicker and with less arguements on how many models are under a given template while also making blast and template weapons more deadly against lone models.
Psychic Phase I don't have a lot to cover here as there isn't a lot for me, a player who only plays armies that hunt Witches instead of fielding them, but what there is has prompted some reaction in my tiny little witch hating heart:
+ No more Daemon summoning circus nonsense. Not only has this been shut down by not putting Warp Charges into a single pool but each Pysker only uses two dice to test to use a power and rolls to hit a target number. So no more throwing large numbers of dice to force through Daemon summoning or Invisibility (looking at you Farseer on a bike). This means more psykers will see use per turn as well since each can use as many powers as their mastery level.
+ Less of a plus for me, but all Witches know Smite as a power now. Wich does either D3 or D6 mortal wounds (which don't allow ANY kind of saving throw, to include invulnerable saves). While this means anyone who likes to field their witchkin will see more use out of their models since they will all have a base offensive power, apparently this isn't even the limit as rumors have stated the ability to roll or choose your powers as you see fit. So good on you. You bunch of heretics.
+++++ Summoned units aren't free. Even Foley took shots at people on Twitter over their "thousands of points of free daemons" and how the Tzeentch players should "love change". Thank the Emperor because this goes a LOOOOOOOOONG way to balancing lists that use summoned units as a tactic. Plus the studio even put the whole idea of dummoning a free army on blast which means we shouldn't be seeing it as an option going forward.
Frankly the thing I liked out of this was balancing out the psykers more. Limiting power usage to Mastery level is old hat that worked and it's good to have it back, while the removal of the warp charge pool. Summoned units costing points against your army's total is good as well and sold help eliminate the free upgrades they used to be run with (when playing in Matched Play at least).
Assault Phase My other favorite phase as seen by my strange desire to run close combat units in my Sisters army, and a preference for Bolt Pistol/Chainsword Black Templars over the Bolter weilding ones. Not a LOT here yet, but we can make a couple of inferences based on some other information we've gotten so far:
+ Charging units attack first. Now this isn't clarified in how it works with Alternate Activation in the assault phase, but I assume that without spendin a Command Point to gain the initive over a given unit the defending player can't choose to attack units that just charged that turn until after they've swung. This gives assaulting units the ability to give a good bloody lip prior to losing models to the alternating activation.
+ You aren't locked into combat. Now while breaking from combat does cost the unit at ran away to lose the ability to do anything else (pending any special rules) it does make it easier for armies to act more like they do in the lore with Guardsmen and Tau breaking from combat to allow their allies to drown the attacker in bright flashes of energy.
+ Generalist units can make up their lack if combat punch by having pistols (and in many armies they already do have pistols) making close combat less one sided for the defending player and offering more options for both players in how they construct their army (shoota boyz versus choppa boyz for example)
+ Alternating Activation engages both players during the assault phase while also giving tactical choice in the order you activate your units to attack. The removal of inititive means your side completes all their attacks at once too, which helps speed how combat rolls along, and ensures weapons that were commonly left on the shelf can see new life again.
+ Rend values add more options to how close combat weapons can be statted for the game over how the old AP values, making choices more useful all around (for example the Power Maul and Chainaxe which were seen as largely useless in the old system)
Overall there is a definite push to make the assault phase more engaging instead of waiting to see if you can roll dice or just scoop a unit this turn, weapon options are definitely looking up from the current game with the removal of initive making it so that heavier weapons aren't made useless just because they're slow but rather based on when you use a unit to ensure that they get to swing. Rend values working on everything make less loved weapons more useful in the game, as they work on everything and not just some lightly armoured units.
General Stuff I left some changes out of the above because they come from speculation or don't fit into a particular slot above:
+ Destoryer weapons are gone. The weapon type will instead be replaced with weapons that do high amount of damage but don't have to rely on special charts to determine e effects of. I assume they'll all rely on dealing Mortal Wounds over regular wounds to ensure they have the right amount of thematic punch, but that's just speculation at the moment.
+ Army/unit rules being locked by keywords. This alone goes a long way to eliminating a lot of the BS in the game in terms of the nigh-unkillable deathstars. With unit specific keywords (example: Berserker for Khorne Berserkers) this can even eliminate the sharing of rules that shouldn't carry over for the purposes of balance.
+Speaking of balance: this is a living edition. That means we can see more frequent tweaks to individual units to correct problems quicker as well as the yearly compendium update that gives us hardcopies for all the rules. The downside is needing to spend more time making sure you have the most current rules but the plus is a more balanced game that is more fun to play.
+ Three game modes: campaign (with unit level point costs to allow you to quickly assemble two different armies for story games that are roughly the same strength without needing to worry about fine details), open play (which lets you basically pour your collection on the table in a points-free slugfest of your own design), and match play (which follows current list building rules, has 14 generic FOCs to start with at launch with more coming with army codex releases, and starts at 1,000 points meaning they set a marker for balanced matches between armies and it starts at the 1k level)
+ 1.5k games are only around 90 minutes long. Great news for tournament organizers and players alike. This means the rules are easier to follow, games follow a more streamlined approach and you can play more games in a day. Like you used to in 5th.
+ Core rules are only 12 pages not counting game type rules, add in 2 pages per game type and the whole ruleset for the core mechanics is under 20 pages total. Less to memorize, less to learn to start playing while not being so stripped back that we need a second rulebook to play the game (lookingnat you GHB)
+ Datasheets will have all unit specific rules and weapon listed meaning less flipping around the codex to find specific rules that only one or two units in the whole book have.
+ No races are being squatted. For those of us who play Sisters this is nice to know because that is the ever present fan theory that we're all tired of.
+ Command Points add interrupts, die rerolls and army flavor. Generated by the FOC you use a set number of non-regenerating points become accessible for you to use up to one time per phase (with no restriction on whose turn you use them on). Example uses given so far include rerolling a die or attacking a unit that just charged that turn before it attacks, but otheroptions were promised to be available based on which army you're fielding.
+ Allies are still a thing but puritan armies get bonuses for not mixing about. Not too much to say as most of this tied into Command Points so we don't know much yet, but with the keyword restriction for special rules and bonuses for not fielding allies mixed into your army it really helps tone down the premise that you need allies to win with certain armies.
+ Chapter/Legion Tactics will still exist. Play with or against marines? Good news! Those fancy paint jobs will still mean something making it so that when you play against a bunch of power armour all the time it will feel different since there will be different rules for different factions. I expect to see changes on how some of these rules work, but the fact that they will continue to exist will remain a bonus for me as fighting the same army all the time is boring as heck.
Overall I see a lot to like from what we've got so far. There isn't enough to really make a call either way (especially to the lore and if the Imperium (especially the Inquisition and some of the more hard line Marine chapters) freaks out like it should that a Primarch is building a massive legion of Marines that don't perfectly follow the template set for the by the God Emperor).
Having to sit through drip releases through all of May will be painful if we don't get a full copy of the core rules to start looking over and studying. The army specific releases can wait until launch but if we have four weeks of drip fed core rules my interest in this release will likely die down to a simmer instead of the full boil GW expects from us.
Pricing information would be nice to see as well. Not to mention a break down of the five books we're getting at launch (and if there will be free PDFs at launch forspecific armies sans lore stuff like they did with AoS). It seems like it'll be broken into the three factions (Imperium, Chaos and Xenos) with perhaps the Imperium split into Astartes and Agents of the Imperium for the sake of size and the core rules, but if the Imperium doesn't get split in twian for the book release I'm not sure what book five will be so a clear cut list would be nice to see. Word on where this new fifth army will fall into the mix would be nice too.
Basically my only grievances at the moment can be summed up as "more information so I can decide how to feel already!" while I currently maintain enough hope to tempt Tzeentch into ruining my day.
Maybe if GW starts teasing specific armies soon I'll be able to maintain my excitement but if the next four weeks are tiny teasers on the core rules I'll likely lose all drive to work on a MkIV Black Templar army.
- Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat!
- When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units, much like the current edition.
Unless there is an exception that lets you shoot the unit you are locked in CC with, pistols will be used to shoot the next closest unit (not the one you are currently engaged in)
You might want to rephrase your statement. It sounds like you're saying that if unit A is locked in combat but has pistols, they'd never be able to fire them even against the unit they themselves are locked into combat with. Which your first point claims they can.
Mymearan wrote: What do you mean? You'll be able to shoot pistols in close combat, as simple as that. You can't take a step back and unload because if you retreat you can't shoot or charge.
- Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat!
- When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units, much like the current edition.
Unless there is an exception that lets you shoot the unit you are locked in CC with, pistols will be used to shoot the next closest unit (not the one you are currently engaged in)
The idea here is that a unit with twin-linked hand flamers would be able to do d6 hits per model to the NEXT closest unit. 5 Seraphim would be doing 5d6 flamer hits, and if TL still lets you re-roll to wounds, that would be a pretty 18.5 hits re-rolling wounds on another target. Owch!
I don't follow your logic but it's quite obvious that pistol are an exception to the rule of not being able to use ranged weapons in melee. Are you actually suggesting models with pistols will be able to shoot in combat, but not at the unit they're engaged with? That's the most absurd thing I've heard today
Mymearan wrote: What do you mean? You'll be able to shoot pistols in close combat, as simple as that. You can't take a step back and unload because if you retreat you can't shoot or charge.
- Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat!
- When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units, much like the current edition.
Unless there is an exception that lets you shoot the unit you are locked in CC with, pistols will be used to shoot the next closest unit (not the one you are currently engaged in)
The idea here is that a unit with twin-linked hand flamers would be able to do d6 hits per model to the NEXT closest unit. 5 Seraphim would be doing 5d6 flamer hits, and if TL still lets you re-roll to wounds, that would be a pretty 18.5 hits re-rolling wounds on another target. Owch!
why would you need an exception. The unit you are locked in combat with is not of necessity locked in combat with other units, just you. It might be also locked in combat with others of course, that is situational.
nintura wrote: 35 points (guessing) for an extra 6-7 wounds on that TL Multi-Melta Squad while giving them much needed movement? #Worth
Even if it goes up to 50 points, I see it worth it.
Personally, I really like this. One of the things I like about GW that Warmachine does not have are an army of tanks. I've always thought that was a good visualization.
"The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit with 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.
Enemy units still have a chance to hit the charging unit with overwatch, provided that they are not already in combat. Just as in the current edition, overwatch is a hit on a flat 6 – all pretty familiar so far.
In the current Warhammer 40,000, you need to reach base contact. In the new edition, though, you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch.
You also can’t move within 1″ of an enemy you didn’t declare as the target of your charge, so if you want to engage multiple units, you’ll need to brave the overwatch fire of all of them. Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back."
ClockworkZion wrote: + removal of initiative simplifies combat order and ensures formally slow weapons have more potential to be used in combat (welcome back Power Fist Sergeants!)
One thing I noticed is that it sees you still move even if you'd fail to become locked in combat.
Not sure if that's good or not, but at least it makes some sense (I remember back when I was first starting years ago wondering why my unit didn't move if it turned out I wasn't in charge range).
ClockworkZion wrote: So after sifting through a lot of opinions, Warhammer Community posts, screen-capped Twitter posts by Foley and enough salty tears to make me thinks I was floating in the Dead Sea while reading I felt it a good time to sit down, sift through it all and share my thoughts. Plus the Astropath Choir at home was down so I didn't have anything better to do at the time.
Stat Line Changes
So, at least initially it seemed like the most contention fell into this category. People didn't see a point in giving everyone the same statline to work with, and the idea that a lasgun had the (very faint potential) of hurting a Land Raider was a more heretical notion than a Black Templar Librarian.
As I see it the simplification to a single statline does a few things:
+ balance between MC and vehicles is easier to achieve
+ no more arguments on if something "should" be a vehicle or MC
+ improved durability to most weapons for vehicles (someone did some math and said comparing the old Dread statline to the new one the new one took 111 Scatterlaser shots to the 40 it'd take to kill one on average now assuming the old one was standing in cover)
+ movement stats rid the need for special rules just to make armies like Eldar and Tyranids "feel" faster, streamlining te game
+ removal of initiative simplifies combat order and ensures formally slow weapons have more potential to be used in combat (welcome back Power Fist Sergeants!)
+ removal of the to-hit and WS charts streamline combat in favor of telling you what you need to roll to hit while shooting/punching while also allowing for modifiers (say, as a possible example, a Nurgle unit having a thick cloud of flies in melee that makes it harder for you to hit because you can't see your target in melee) this makes it easier for new players to get into game and removes clutter most veteran players didn't need anyways because we'd memorized the charts.
+ two-hit rolls for melee replacing WS honestly makes me feel like we're representing the abilities of the model more than we were before. It's still an abstraction, but not getting hit in a large melee is harder than hitting something and this feels like it reflects that.
All in all the changes feel largely positive, and it really feels like The move is to make things easier to learn while leaving a lot of room for nuances in how different units interact in combat through modifiers instead of needing to have charts handy all the time.
The change to assault makes weapon choices feel a lot like "never take this" will be a lot less common with options like the trusty Powerfist being more likely to swing as long as you time your unit activations/Command Point usage well during the Assault Phase.
Shooting
As a Sisters player for the most part it is safe to say I am someone who is pretty keen on the Shooting phase. And what little we've learned so far has me interested as it feels like the move is towards a faster playing, more mobile shooting game than before:
+/- Templates are gone. RIP little plastic buddies. By buddies I of course mean my collection of flamer templates because not even my Avenger Strike Fighters got equipped with blast weapons. Seriously though, the removal means one less thing to keep track of (or lose) and to purchase. Sure they're iconic, but so was the red whippy stick and that died several editions ago. I am on the fence to see how Blast weapons work but in the mean time what I saw from Flamers works just fine for me. I suspect Hand Flamers will turn into D3 weapons though. Heavy Flamers however may see a boost in range and potential damage over the D6 (perhaps 2D3?) which would fit weapon better.
+ Heavy Weapons only suffer a -1 to shoot after you move (even for vehicles). This right here opens up massive amounts of mobility into the game. Sure Orks don't care because they either Snap Fired at BS1 or had an Assault Weapon, but for your average armies this means re-positioning is less of a question and more open to do. Ditching blast templates means that these weapons will likely ditch the "move or fire" option that held a lot of weapons back too. Overall this is a great change.
+ Pistols (and only pistols) can shoot units within 1" during the shooting phases (this means you can shoot someone in the face the turn after they charged you) This may be A change that benefits Sisters of Battle the most, but I feel it can go a long way for a lot of units. For Sisters the benefit is pretty obvious: the army gains a big counter-charge punch because nearly every model in the army has a bolt pistol. Hit on 3+ at S4 is way better than (I assume) punch on 4+ at S3. This means a Battle Sisters unit that is charged can choose to disengage (losing all other actions for the turn) to let another unit take shots at the unit that charged the turn before OR shoot said enemy unit in the face before pummeling them in the face with their tiny ceramite-clad lady-fists. Or the random Power Weapon/Eviscerator. For pretty much most armies this means a lot more damage done over less turns making assaults last for fewer turns, while also allowing for more generalist units (like Tactical Marines or Battle Sisters) get a chance to stand up to melee-focused units like Genestealers who ignore the shooting phase but can deal out a fair number of wounds in melee. Plus Bolt Pistol/Chainsword becomes a power combination in some rights as it can shoot and then chop making armies like Black Templars or (people who have weird fetishes for Assault Marines) very happy.
+ Cover modifies the saving trough directly. Not only does this add a touch of thematic element to the game where super lasers, acid beetles and explosive mini rockets are more likely to be shot at you through the wall rather than over it, but it streamlines the saving system as this means increasing tour save by the cover modifier then subtracting the rend value (if there is one) giving you an easier to learn mechanics that still benefits from good tactics. Plus putting a wall between you and oncoming bullets is generally seen as a sound tactical choice anyways so rewarding tactical thinking (and nice, densely packed boards full of terrain instead of the barren moonscape of so many tables) is always a good thing in my book. Then again my favorite game type int he past was City Fight so I am aware of my biases on this.
+ Rend values can drop armour saves. I love this because it brings a sense of granularity to the game that the old "all your save or nothing" lacked without really making the game complex. Especially since most basic weapons seem like they will have a rend value of 0 (I will laugh if the lasgun actually gives your armour save a +1 though). It's a mechanic I remember in WHFB that I always felt would work in 40k and I am glad to see it make it's way over finally.
All around the shooting phase changes look good, with things like the ability to actually move units more with less punishment for doing so, modifiers to saves coming into play (something that'll carry over into the Assault Phase as well), pistols being more useful than purchasing for just +1 attack or using them just so you can charge after you take a couple small pot shots, and generally a move to quicker gameplay by removing templates and scatter die in favor for variable rolls on how many wounds are dealt (to a unit or individual model) mean that the game will move quicker and with less arguments on how many models are under a given template while also making blast and template weapons more deadly against lone models.
Psychic Phase
I don't have a lot to cover here as there isn't a lot for me, a player who only plays armies that hunt Witches instead of fielding them, but what there is has prompted some reaction in my tiny little witch hating heart:
+ No more Daemon summoning circus nonsense. Not only has this been shut down by not putting Warp Charges into a single pool but each Pysker only uses two dice to test to use a power and rolls to hit a target number. So no more throwing large numbers of dice to force through Daemon summoning or Invisibility (looking at you Farseer on a bike). This means more psykers will see use per turn as well since each can use as many powers as their mastery level.
+ Less of a plus for me, but all Witches know Smite as a power now. Which does either D3 or D6 mortal wounds (which don't allow ANY kind of saving throw, to include invulnerable saves). While this means anyone who likes to field their witchkin will see more use out of their models since they will all have a base offensive power, apparently this isn't even the limit as rumors have stated the ability to roll or choose your powers as you see fit. So good on you. You bunch of heretics.
+++++ Summoned units aren't free. Even Foley took shots at people on Twitter over their "thousands of points of free daemons" and how the Tzeentch players should "love change". Thank the Emperor because this goes a LOOOOOOOOONG way to balancing lists that use summoned units as a tactic. Plus the studio even put the whole idea of summoning a free army on blast which means we shouldn't be seeing it as an option going forward.
Frankly the thing I liked out of this was balancing out the psykers more. Limiting power usage to Mastery level is old hat that worked and it's good to have it back, while the removal of the warp charge pool. Summoned units costing points against your army's total is good as well and sold help eliminate the free upgrades they used to be run with (when playing in Matched Play at least).
Assault Phase
My other favorite phase as seen by my strange desire to run close combat units in my Sisters army, and a preference for Bolt Pistol/Chainsword Black Templars over the Bolter wielding ones. Not a LOT here yet, but we can make a couple of inferences based on some other information we've gotten so far:
+ Charging units attack first. Now this isn't clarified in how it works with Alternate Activation in the assault phase, but I assume that without spending a Command Point to gain the initiative over a given unit the defending player can't choose to attack units that just charged that turn until after they've swung. This gives assaulting units the ability to give a good bloody lip prior to losing models to the alternating activation.
+ You aren't locked into combat. Now while breaking from combat does cost the unit at ran away to lose the ability to do anything else (pending any special rules) it does make it easier for armies to act more like they do in the lore with Guardsmen and Tau breaking from combat to allow their allies to drown the attacker in bright flashes of energy.
+ Generalist units can make up their lack of combat punch by having pistols (and in many armies they already do have pistols) making close combat less one sided for the defending player and offering more options for both players in how they construct their army (shoota boyz versus choppa boyz for example)
+ Alternating Activation engages both players during the assault phase while also giving tactical choice in the order you activate your units to attack. The removal of initiative means your side completes all their attacks at once too, which helps speed how combat rolls along, and ensures weapons that were commonly left on the shelf can see new life again.
+ Rend values add more options to how close combat weapons can be stat'd for the game over how the old AP values, making choices more useful all around (for example the Power Maul and Chainaxe which were seen as largely useless in the old system)
Overall there is a definite push to make the assault phase more engaging instead of waiting to see if you can roll dice or just scoop a unit this turn, weapon options are definitely looking up from the current game with the removal of initiative making it so that heavier weapons aren't made useless just because they're slow but rather based on when you use a unit to ensure that they get to swing. Rend values working on everything make less loved weapons more useful in the game, as they work on everything and not just some lightly armoured units.
General Stuff
I left some changes out of the above because they come from speculation or don't fit into a particular slot above:
+ Destroyer weapons are gone. The weapon type will instead be replaced with weapons that do high amount of damage but don't have to rely on special charts to determine e effects of. I assume they'll all rely on dealing Mortal Wounds over regular wounds to ensure they have the right amount of thematic punch, but that's just speculation at the moment.
+ Army/unit rules being locked by keywords. This alone goes a long way to eliminating a lot of the BS in the game in terms of the nigh-unkillable deathstars. With unit specific keywords (example: Berserker for Khorne Berserkers) this can even eliminate the sharing of rules that shouldn't carry over for the purposes of balance.
+Speaking of balance: this is a living edition. That means we can see more frequent tweaks to individual units to correct problems quicker as well as the yearly compendium update that gives us hard copies for all the rules. The downside is needing to spend more time making sure you have the most current rules but the plus is a more balanced game that is more fun to play.
+ Three game modes: campaign (with unit level point costs to allow you to quickly assemble two different armies for story games that are roughly the same strength without needing to worry about fine details), open play (which lets you basically pour your collection on the table in a points-free slugfest of your own design), and match play (which follows current list building rules, has 14 generic FOCs to start with at launch with more coming with army codex releases, and starts at 1,000 points meaning they set a marker for balanced matches between armies and it starts at the 1k level)
+ 1.5k games are only around 90 minutes long. Great news for tournament organizers and players alike. This means the rules are easier to follow, games follow a more streamlined approach and you can play more games in a day. Like you used to in 5th.
+ Core rules are only 12 pages not counting game type rules, add in 2 pages per game type and the whole ruleset for the core mechanics is under 20 pages total. Less to memorize, less to learn to start playing while not being so stripped back that we need a second rulebook to play the game (looking at you GHB)
+ Datasheets will have all unit specific rules and weapon listed meaning less flipping around the codex to find specific rules that only one or two units in the whole book have.
+ No races are being squatted. For those of us who play Sisters this is nice to know because that is the ever present fan theory that we're all tired of.
+ Command Points add interrupts, die rerolls and army flavor. Generated by the FOC you use a set number of non-regenerating points become accessible for you to use up to one time per phase (with no restriction on whose turn you use them on). Example uses given so far include rerolling a die or attacking a unit that just charged that turn before it attacks, but other options were promised to be available based on which army you're fielding.
+ Allies are still a thing but puritan armies get bonuses for not mixing about. Not too much to say as most of this tied into Command Points so we don't know much yet, but with the keyword restriction for special rules and bonuses for not fielding allies mixed into your army it really helps tone down the premise that you need allies to win with certain armies.
+ Chapter/Legion Tactics will still exist. Play with or against marines? Good news! Those fancy paint jobs will still mean something making it so that when you play against a bunch of power armour all the time it will feel different since there will be different rules for different factions. I expect to see changes on how some of these rules work, but the fact that they will continue to exist will remain a bonus for me as fighting the same army all the time is boring as heck.
Overall I see a lot to like from what we've got so far. There isn't enough to really make a call either way (especially to the lore and if the Imperium (especially the Inquisition and some of the more hard line Marine chapters) freaks out like it should that a Primarch is building a massive legion of Marines that don't perfectly follow the template set for the by the God Emperor).
Having to sit through drip releases through all of May will be painful if we don't get a full copy of the core rules to start looking over and studying. The army specific releases can wait until launch but if we have four weeks of drip fed core rules my interest in this release will likely die down to a simmer instead of the full boil GW expects from us.
Pricing information would be nice to see as well. Not to mention a break down of the five books we're getting at launch (and if there will be free PDFs at launch for specific armies sans lore stuff like they did with AoS). It seems like it'll be broken into the three factions (Imperium, Chaos and Xenos) with perhaps the Imperium split into Astartes and Agents of the Imperium for the sake of size and the core rules, but if the Imperium doesn't get split in twain for the book release I'm not sure what book five will be so a clear cut list would be nice to see. Word on where this new fifth army will fall into the mix would be nice too.
Basically my only grievances at the moment can be summed up as "more information so I can decide how to feel already!" while I currently maintain enough hope to tempt Tzeentch into ruining my day.
Maybe if GW starts teasing specific armies soon I'll be able to maintain my excitement but if the next four weeks are tiny teasers on the core rules I'll likely lose all drive to work on a MkIV Black Templar army.
Figured since you went through so much trouble to write this up, as awesome as it is, I cleaned it up some for you This way people don't get distracted or break concentration while reading this post.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: One thing I noticed is that it sees you still move even if you'd fail to become locked in combat.
Not sure if that's good or not, but at least it makes some sense (I remember back when I was first starting years ago wondering why my unit didn't move if it turned out I wasn't in charge range).
Oh great pick up!! You move towards them 2D6, this is massive!! It means you can at least get closer.
Mymearan wrote: What do you mean? You'll be able to shoot pistols in close combat, as simple as that. You can't take a step back and unload because if you retreat you can't shoot or charge.
- Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat!
- When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units, much like the current edition.
Unless there is an exception that lets you shoot the unit you are locked in CC with, pistols will be used to shoot the next closest unit (not the one you are currently engaged in)
The idea here is that a unit with twin-linked hand flamers would be able to do d6 hits per model to the NEXT closest unit. 5 Seraphim would be doing 5d6 flamer hits, and if TL still lets you re-roll to wounds, that would be a pretty 18.5 hits re-rolling wounds on another target. Owch!
why would you need an exception. The unit you are locked in combat with is not of necessity locked in combat with other units, just you. It might be also locked in combat with others of course, that is situational.
I see what you are saying. The phrase 'other units' is key here. You are reading 'you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units' as 'I can shoot the unit I am engaged with with pistols'
The term other would apply to 'units not in the assault'.
I read 'other units' as 'Any unit that is not the unit in question'. Therefore any time you are in assault, you cannot be shot - even by the unit you are in assault with.
Honestly it makes more sense to be able to shoot the unit you are engaged in with pistols, so the first definition makes more sense.
I don't like that both Overwatch and Fall Back exist at the same time. Really puts a damper on combat armies vs shooting armies, given what we know so far.
However, that could change if a bunch of stuff prevents Fall Back or reduces the impact of Overwatch.
Rippy wrote: Oh great pick up!! You move towards them 2D6, this is massive!! It means you can at least closer.
Yep. It means that even if you are 12" away, and you can handle the overwatch fire, it's worth the move just to get another ~7" forward. It's a nice boost to slower moving assault armies (orks)
KommissarKiln wrote: In order to balance out the save modifiers (as well as high wound count), I would expect- I also really, really hope- that rerollable saves will no longer exist, or at least become much rarer and/or the 2nd save is weaker than the 1st. As far as I'm concerned, if those Tzeentch/Ravenwing armies and super special Mary-Sue HQ characters take one to the butt, it will be much better for the other armies and the game in general, as a ~2-3% chance of failing saves on a D6 system is pretty unfair against armies that are lucky to reduce that chance of failure to 17%.
On a separate note, I wonder if bikers will lose their +1T buff and instead get an extra wound or two, much like many other units are receiving. Perhaps, dare I say it, the poor IG Rough Riders will become relevant with 2 or 3 wounds!
#MakeRoughRidersGreatForOnce
Rerollable saves were game-breakers. Since GW got many of the competitive players actively involved in the playtesting, I expect them to be extremely rare or removed altogether. Fortune might be a 9+ power to cast.
Expect something like "Reroll failed saves of 1 or 2" rather than "Reroll failed saves".
Zatsuku wrote: I can live with 2d6" charges, but I really wish we didn't have to. Only a minor disappointment though.
I can live and even agree with some variability/randomness like 1d6+6 but to have charge values swing 83% from one roll to the next potentially is a change in 7th that I'm not happy they're keeping. If it were over for instance difficult terrain or some other in game reason (heavy grav field) then I'd be fine with it but a unit's charge range should IMO vary so substantially over open ground with nothing impeding them. YMMV. On a similar note, I'm not particularly happy about the flat overwatch hit on 6 value being kept either. An overwatching ork should fire with a different accuracy than a space marine with hundreds of years experience or an eldar exarch with thousands cummulatively. Both IMO are randomness for randomness' sake.
Zatsuku wrote: I can live with 2d6" charges, but I really wish we didn't have to. Only a minor disappointment though.
I can live and even agree with some variability/randomness like 1d6+6 but to have charge values swing 83% from one roll to the next potentially is a change in 7th that I'm not happy they're keeping. If it were over for instance difficult terrain or some other in game reason (heavy grav field) then I'd be fine with it but a unit's charge range should IMO vary so substantially over open ground with nothing impeding them. YMMV. On a similar note, I'm not particularly happy about the flat overwatch hit on 6 value being kept either. An overwatching ork should fire with a different accuracy than a space marine with hundreds of years experience or an eldar exarch with thousands cummulatively. Both IMO are randomness for randomness' sake.
There is always the chance that special rules may help charge distance.
Kanluwen wrote: Expect something like "Reroll failed saves of 1 or 2" rather than "Reroll failed saves".
That's the same as just a reroll if you have a save of a 3+.
Even the 7th ed daemons of Tzeench. They were getting rerolls on a 1, but was often a 35/36 save because people would grimoire/cursed earth down to a 2+ save.
Today's post left more questions than it answered. Can we charge after running (or advancing, whatever it's called now)? Do you move 2d6" regardless of whether the charge is successful? What sense does it make that one unit can magically fire half a dozen times in the charge phase, but only once in the shooting phase? Which blistering idiot kept 2d6" charges in the game when there's a perfectly good movement stat now? Random charges, random run distance and mortal wounds are the things I'm most disappointed in so far; I'm relatively surprised that the playtesters were fine with all this - the variance is utterly insane if you can charge after running. One unit might make a 1" run and a 2" charge, going only 3" total, while an identical unit next to them might sprint 6" then gallop another 12" into combat for a total of 18". One covers a third of the width of board, the other barely shuffles half the movement of a Space Marine. That's just poor design IMO. It's kinda surprising too when cover changed to something more reasonable, withdrawing from combat got added as a failsafe if assault is too strong, etc, yet we're still lumbered with all the random garbage which was half the problem in the first place? If random psychic powers are in the game too, my optimism might be all about spent.
That's not how Seraphims work.
You can have up to 2 models using a pair of hand flamers. The rest of the models are pairs of bolt pistols. So here, it's 4d6 hand flamer hits + 6 bolt pistols shot.
Rippy wrote: "The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit with 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.
Enemy units still have a chance to hit the charging unit with overwatch, provided that they are not already in combat. Just as in the current edition, overwatch is a hit on a flat 6 – all pretty familiar so far.
In the current Warhammer 40,000, you need to reach base contact. In the new edition, though, you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch.
You also can’t move within 1″ of an enemy you didn’t declare as the target of your charge, so if you want to engage multiple units, you’ll need to brave the overwatch fire of all of them. Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back."
Pretty much unchanged
How so? Even if you fail your charge, it sounds like they are saying you STILL move your units closer. That's a huge change.
Zatsuku wrote: I can live with 2d6" charges, but I really wish we didn't have to. Only a minor disappointment though.
I can live and even agree with some variability/randomness like 1d6+6 but to have charge values swing 83% from one roll to the next potentially is a change in 7th that I'm not happy they're keeping. If it were over for instance difficult terrain or some other in game reason (heavy grav field) then I'd be fine with it but a unit's charge range should IMO vary so substantially over open ground with nothing impeding them. YMMV. On a similar note, I'm not particularly happy about the flat overwatch hit on 6 value being kept either. An overwatching ork should fire with a different accuracy than a space marine with hundreds of years experience or an eldar exarch with thousands cummulatively. Both IMO are randomness for randomness' sake.
There is always the chance that special rules may help charge distance.
True but I believe the default should be a more predictable number instead of completely random in the basic ideal situation instead of the exception. Heck, I'd even be willing to grudgingly accept that overwatching makes you roll instead of charging a flat number because you're trying to avoid incoming fire somewhat... but even that isn't the justification here. Simply running over a well maintained concrete surface with nothing to impede or distract you (for instance in the case of charging a unit with no shooting attacks so no overwatch) will vary 83% (from 12 to 2) potentially. That's just odd to me. Randomness =/= excitement automatically for me nor does it "forge the narrative". It just turns running across an empty field into a comical grimdark version of clumsy future supersoldiers competing in American Ninja Warrior's obstacle course and being thwarted by tiny pebbles or blades of grass or perhaps a gentle breeze.
Kanluwen wrote: Expect something like "Reroll failed saves of 1 or 2" rather than "Reroll failed saves".
That's the same as just a reroll if you have a save of a 3+.
Even the 7th ed daemons of Tzeench. They were getting rerolls on a 1, but was often a 35/36 save because people would grimoire/cursed earth down to a 2+ save.
It's effectively the same, sure--but you'd be surprised how rare it is to have both 1 and 2. Most of the time it's just reroll failed saves of 1.
We’ve heard about movement, psychic powers, and shooting. Today we look at the Charge phase.
Charging in Warhammer 40,000 is how you get your units into close combat to use all those awesome looking exotic combat weapons to hack, slash and otherwise obliterate enemy units.
The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit with 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.
Enemy units still have a chance to hit the charging unit with overwatch, provided that they are not already in combat. Just as in the current edition, overwatch is a hit on a flat 6 – all pretty familiar so far.
In the current Warhammer 40,000, you need to reach base contact. In the new edition, though, you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch.
You also can’t move within 1″ of an enemy you didn’t declare as the target of your charge, so if you want to engage multiple units, you’ll need to brave the overwatch fire of all of them. Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back.
So, the Charge phase keeps most of its current mechanics, with only minor amends.
Tomorrow, we’ll check in on the Fight phase, where we look at the bloody melee in the 41st Millennium.
Kanluwen wrote: It's effectively the same, sure--but you'd be surprised how rare it is to have both 1 and 2. Most of the time it's just reroll failed saves of 1.
I'd be happy if rerolls are never better than a 4+. Power armor rerolls become 5/6 chance of success. Terminator armor rerolls become 11/12 chance of success.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote: Social experiment question: Are you a tournament player?
I have a pet theory the reason templates are out is because they had tourney guys do the playtesting, in the environment where fun goes to die.
Why is it where fun goes to die? Because the people there play to win? They use the rules to build the best armies possible?
I'm equally a competitive tournament player and a casual beer-n-pretzels player. They are both equally fun, just in different ways. Just because you don't like the competitive fun, does not mean it's not fun for others.
What it means is that there is less likely to be wacky-out-of-balance units. How is that a bad thing?
It means games will be lowered from 3 hours to play to 90 minutes. How is that a bad thing?
So moving a failed charge, only need to get into 1" (and then likely consolidate into b2b later), and multiple overwatches?
While I like that you can potentially shrink the board for slower armies, and that charges are effectively 3"-13" on 2d6, the ability to overwatch near endlessly (unless you become successfully charged) just makes gunline armies that much more annoying. The only way this change can ultimately be pallatable in my book is if Overwatch is locked to a flat 'hit on a 6' and not something that can be buffed to hit on lower nmbers.
Regardless it looks like charging with cheaper screening units, or just chaffe in general before engaging you beatstick 3.0 unit in combat is still a thing and while more tactics based it basically did nothing to shift up the meta for us so far in regards to Overwatch. We'll need to wait and see I guess if more stuff will balance it out laer.
changemod wrote: Social experiment question: Are you a tournament player?
I have a pet theory the reason templates are out is because they had tourney guys do the playtesting, in the environment where fun goes to die.
Why is it where fun goes to die? Because the people there play to win? They use the rules to build the best armies possible?
I'm equally a competitive tournament player and a casual beer-n-pretzels player. They are both equally fun, just in different ways. Just because you don't like the competitive fun, does not mean it's not fun for others.
What it means is that there is less likely to be wacky-out-of-balance units. How is that a bad thing?
It means games will be lowered from 3 hours to play to 90 minutes. How is that a bad thing?
Don't read too much into it, in this particular case because it's extremely rare outside a tournament environment to see someone obsessively space their horde unit for fraction of an inch perfect anti-template spacing instead of just shuffling if forwards in roughly 2 inch apart formation.
Putting down a flame template or an apocalyptic blast is an immensely satisfying part of the game.
"It doesn't work quite like that, as you only have to get within 1" of the unit your charging, and you'll see tomorow, why "conga line" gunlines are going to be a really bad idea.
Like · Reply · "
This nearly confirms sweeping into other units after combat? I feel they are buffing overwatch because assault is going to be far more deadly.
Eyjio wrote: What sense does it make that one unit can magically fire half a dozen times in the charge phase, but only once in the shooting phase? Which blistering idiot kept 2d6" charges in the game when there's a perfectly good movement stat now? ... That's just poor design IMO. It's kinda surprising too when cover changed to something more reasonable, withdrawing from combat got added as a failsafe if assault is too strong, etc, yet we're still lumbered with all the random garbage which was half the problem in the first place? If random psychic powers are in the game too, my optimism might be all about spent.
Ditto.
Charge should have been 2x movement modified by terrain.
Overwatch should have gone back to 2nd ed style - place a marker and wait for some idjit to come into your line of fire, and fire.
If psychic powers, warlord traits and so on remain random as well, and numarines end up Wardmarines, then what a shame is all that is left to say.
Regardless it looks like charging with cheaper screening units, or just chaffe in general before engaging you beatstick 3.0 unit in combat is still a thing.
not really
you need to get as many units in contact with your charge as possible, and your screening units need to survive this
because if you just get one unit, it will be removed from compat and the other units around will shoot you
if the screening unit gets killed in Overwatch, your main unit also takes Overwatch damage and get shot the next turn
only if all units in weapon range and LOS are engaged in CC, your unit is save in the opponents phase
Zatsuku wrote: I can live with 2d6" charges, but I really wish we didn't have to. Only a minor disappointment though.
It's not though. As long as you are within 12" from your target you basically get 1+2D6 inches for the charge. That's a 3" charge range even if you roll snake eyes which is really unlikely to happen. That's still a big step up from what we have right now (heck, even 5th Edition with it's standardized 6" charge range, if you roll a 5 with 2D6 you have that already, roll a 6 or more and it's even more than that!), especially if you factor in the likely 7" movement for Eldar and 8" for Gaunts and other small tyranids and the ability to assault after disembarking from transports right away, getting into charging range and combat will be alot easier now, especially if they handle wound allocation like AoS (the controlling player decides which models get removed, so you as the melee unit player get to remove guys in the back again rather than having to artifically kill your front men and putting more distance between you and the enemy, not to mention the whole mess with overwatch casualties and resulting failing charges).
Really glad about that 1" rule, it was always extremely annoying when some extremely petty opponent started an argument how the charge was supposedly 1-2 milimeters from their models base. Worst thing that happened to me in a tournament was one of them even pushing the closest figure in the assaulted squad further away while gesturing with the finger and before calling the judge, I had to control myself from charging and hitting...that guy... with the heaviest rulebook in reach.
Also regarding the news post, the following bit
You also can’t move within 1″ of an enemy you didn’t declare as the target of your charge, so if you want to engage multiple units, you’ll need to brave the overwatch fire of all of them. Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back.
Seems to strongly imply that it is possible to assault multible units with one of yours if you declare a charge against all of them (even if you only make it into combat with one of them because of insufficient charge rolls - the obvious drawback of course being that for every additional unit you declare against you have to eat more overwatch fire), which would be quite a boon for assault armies and help deal with the whole "the one charged unit can just fall back and the attackers get shot to pieces" issue. If all units that could shoot at the now disengaged attackers aren't allowed to shoot anything because they are retreating themselves...
Didn't expect overwatch to still be in, but it might be needed to balance out the big buffs for (fast) assault units and particularly close combat horde armies against gunlines like Tau or IG.
"We haven't got to assault yet. Stuff is gonna die, don't you worry."
"Hey Steve,We haven't gotten to assault yet - don't worry. Your crusaders are going to have a great time in the new edition."
"Hey Michael Ryan, Assault armies are going to do just fine. Remember, points and rules for every unit are being adjusted and, you haven't seen what combat look like yet. (Which we'll have tomorow)"
" There's far more to combat than charging, Blane. We'll see a bit more of it tomorow. People will fear the assault army, you'll see."
RoboDragon wrote: "It doesn't work quite like that, as you only have to get within 1" of the unit your charging, and you'll see tomorow, why "conga line" gunlines are going to be a really bad idea.
Like · Reply · "
This nearly confirms sweeping into other units after combat? I feel they are buffing overwatch because assault is going to be far more deadly.
I guess I need to invest in a bigger shovel to remove my Guard casualties with, now....
paqman wrote: Some comments from GW on the face book page:
"We haven't got to assault yet. Stuff is gonna die, don't you worry."
"Hey Steve,We haven't gotten to assault yet - don't worry. Your crusaders are going to have a great time in the new edition."
"Hey Michael Ryan, Assault armies are going to do just fine. Remember, points and rules for every unit are being adjusted and, you haven't seen what combat look like yet. (Which we'll have tomorow)"
" There's far more to combat than charging, Blane. We'll see a bit more of it tomorow. People will fear the assault army, you'll see."
Quite excited for tomorow's update.
I definately wouldn't read anything either way there, that's their standard format for assurances nowadays that applies whether the thing the person is worried about is going to happen or not.
Regardless it looks like charging with cheaper screening units, or just chaffe in general before engaging you beatstick 3.0 unit in combat is still a thing.
not really
you need to get as many units in contact with your charge as possible, and your screening units need to survive this
because if you just get one unit, it will be removed from compat and the other units around will shoot you
if the screening unit gets killed in Overwatch, your main unit also takes Overwatch damage and get shot the next turn
only if all units in weapon range and LOS are engaged in CC, your unit is save in the opponents phase
Hordes seem to be looking good with the changes so far, so taking large groups of flack units seems to be a good way to help tie up enemy units, perhaps even through multi-charging so that the more melee oriented units can engage safely.
While double move for charge range, or movement plus a die roll would make sense for different charge ranges I can see why they ultimately stuck with the 2d6 method: lower threshold to understanding making the game less about blindly memorizing every stat block to judge charge ranges and allowing people to focus less on needing to calculate charge distances and ultimately slow gameplay down, especially with newer players. I can see some units having bonuses and/or rerolls to charge distances though so it's not like faster units will be less likely to get into combat.
For now I'm loving all the changes. If they port the 'one stance of the same spell cast per army' from AoS, not even the Psychic Phase will be that dread for my Tau.
And the last article just tells me Longstrike teached the entire universe the joy of unlimited Overwatch, lol
Insectum7 wrote: Heavy weapons only having a -1 to hit while moving seems very generous to me.
In the context of a game that has traditionally required heavy weapons to stand still, it does seem generous. I like it, though... potentially makes for a more mobile game, and more use out of heavies, as you don't waste turns getting them into position or waiting for something to walk in front of them. There's not really any inherent reason that heavy weapons should require models to not move that turn... that was just the abstraction that was previously built into the system.
Having said that, it also goes one more step towards this edition being about killing things even faster than ever before... which I'm less fond of.
Well, if they're not going to bring down the scale of the game in terms of the number of models on the table(they're not) and they're not going to simplify the rules to an almost comical extent(they're not), hugely ramping up the lethality is really the only way to make the game play quicker.
Don't worry though, I'm sure GW will soon have a branded, high quality Miniature Management System(dustpan & brush and a big ol' bucket) for sale to help horde army players shovel their casualties
The best use of randomness in a thematic game is to simulate the unpredictability of the real-life scenarios that fit the theme of that game. The keyword here is 'simulate'. It is important for the random outcome to mimic the probability of that outcome in the real-life scenario that is being simulated. Here, the properties of the mechanism used to generate the random outcomes need to be considered carefully.
When a simulation is successful, the game is satisfying, because it manages to replicate realistic situations. When it fails, we become aware of the shortcomings of the mechanism used in generating the random outcome.
When you hear people shouting with glee at a tournament it's because they nailed that extremely close random result.
Ragnar69 wrote: how often do several units declare a charge on the same enemy unit? I don't think unlimited overwatch will be an issue at all.
Maybe for Tau, if they can still overwatch even whwn not directrly charged.
I have a feeling you can basically activate charging units independently instead of making the choice all at once which ones will charge, making it so you don't have to potentially accidentally sacrifice your stronger units if the others fail their charges.
docdoom77 wrote: My overall impressions is still very positive, but this is deffo the most disappointing update yet.
I was really hoping they'd ditch overwatch. Such a time-consuming and random mechanic that might do nothing and might decimate a unit. Sigh.
I was really hoping for a less random charge, but I can live with that too.
My rolling is so bad that I can count on both hands how many times a model died to my overwatch. I've only ever seen it make a big impact with that psychic power that I can't remember the name of at the moment....forewarning?
docdoom77 wrote: My overall impressions is still very positive, but this is deffo the most disappointing update yet.
I was really hoping they'd ditch overwatch. Such a time-consuming and random mechanic that might do nothing and might decimate a unit. Sigh.
I was really hoping for a less random charge, but I can live with that too.
Command points to Overwatch or needing to set aside an action to Overwatch would have been better in my opinion than this, but the good news if it turns out to be as bad as we fear there is a solid change that it's something that can change. Living rules definitely have an advantage here when it comes to things like this so I'll be waiting to see if it's as bad as it seems to be and submit feedback as needed.
I'm actually looking forwards to this, the final realisation that you can modify dice rolls without only one roll getting the modifiers is wonderful.
e.g. stuff that makes you harder to hit, modify the 'to hit' roll, stuff that you can actually hide behind, modify the 'to save' roll, the further option I've not heard of but hope to see is toughness modifiers - e.g. a tank being tougher on the front.
Could also be used for stuff like MkIII marines, tougher from the front - so powerful stuff won't care but its good against small arms.
Templates going? not crying over that, I welcome the ability to use movement trays, even the bolt action simple ones for three models (the new round ones from Warlord as well), if there is a rule that a blast or template type weapon doing a random number of hit to a unit cannot do more than one hit to any individual model I'd be even happier.
A units rules on its stat sheet.. by gork yes, removing the need to look up a special rule, that when you find it turns out to simply grant one or two other special rules, that when you find them simply note "+1 attack" or similar... yes not crying over that.
Dare say the stat sheets we get on day one will be a bit basic and bland, don't care if they get replaced over time.
Movement Stat coming back, glad to see you old friend, and goodby all the special rules that were brought in to compensate...
Chargers hitting first? meah, preferred initiative personally - with initiative modifiers for weapons and situations but will take the abstraction - just wonder how long before "Always Strikes First" will appear..
Pistols useful in close combat, finally...
Happy so far, indeed so far not seeing anything I don't actually like
This seems like it might make Striking Scorpions somewhat powerful again. If Mantiblasters become first strike las pistols again as per 2nd edition. And Shuriken pistols have bladestorm (-1 additional rend). This means they work as follows:
Shoot opponent with pistol, Charge your opponent, Strike them with Mantiblasters, then swing chainsword at opponent.
Next turn, Shoot with pistol, Strike with Mantiblaster, Swing with chainsword.
If people are worried about a unit shooting at their chargers with overwatch, wouldn't it make sense to soften that unit up a bit with er, shooting, before you charged it, and thus make your charge less likely to be affected by overwatch?
I will vomit if Tau's overwatch assist rules go unchanged into 8th edition with the new multiple overwatch per unit rule.
"Okay, my Orks are going to charge that Fire Warrior unit."
"Sure, I'll overwatch, and my Riptide, Stealth Suits and Broadsides are all going to shoot at you too."
"Okay, I succeeded my charge, so my second mob will charge the Broadsides."
"Sure, so the Riptide, Suits and Broadsides get to shoot at this unit too."
"Okay, my second mob failed their charge, but the third mob is declaring the same charge."
"Sure, now all three of my Tau units are firing a *third* time during your turn! My 4 units shot 10 times during your charge phase!"
Emperor help us if overwatch BS modifiers carry over into 8th too.
Damn... I can't wait to see the rules change that they promised that makes assault viable in 8th edition.
Currently, if you want your army to do the majority of its damage by punching things rather than shooting them, you must do one of two things.
1) blob everything together with 6,000 interlocking layers of special rules and a handful of broken psychic powers making it all but invincible and then multi-charge everything
2) spam a handful of broken units like GSC metamorphs, Flesh Hounds, etc that are so overtuned they can run the gauntlet of shooting-favoring rules that is 7th ed and still win.
Everything else, the dozens of units that would love to get into assault, is basically DOA. And what are we doing to fix that with 8th so far? Well, let's see:
-Sweep is gone, replaced with battleshock, which affects both the winner and the loser in combat. Might be good, might be bad, but in general it'll probably just be a couple extra casualties your assault units will take.
-Chargers strike first. This helps some factions, like Orks and Necrons, who would take extra casualties charging into marines and the like who strike before them, but will royally feth factions like Deldar and Harlequins who can now just be charged by guardsmen, fire warriors, whatever, and they won't be hard at all to wipe out because
-Weapon Skill can no longer make you harder to hit, it just makes it easier to hit opponents.
-Unless some unforseen rule appears, Vehicles are much, much, much harder to kill in assault, and now get to Overwatch. Oh joy, one of the few edge cases where an assault unit was more effective than a shooting unit is gone, because we no longer hit vehicles in the rear and now they have basic saves vs assaults. Even if it got only T6 and a 4+ save, a unit of ork boyz that would previously be able to glance out a Rhino is now not going to have a prayer.
-Units can just walk out of melee with you, allowing you to get shot by other units. This one is a real nail in the coffin, as if there isn't some kind of powerful sweeping advance/catchup mechanic allowing you to get back into combat, fragile assault armies might be well and truly screwed (combined of course with how garbage cover is with low armor values or units that rely on invulns like Daemons and Harlequins, where it won't do anything)
-Special weapons cause more wounds, and everything seems to be getting more wounds across the board to compensate, while the number of base attacks looks to be the same in everything we've seen so far. This means special weapons vs statlines is about the same (if more random....yaaaay....random for the sake of random...) but the power of average dudes striking with basic attacks goes way down.
-If you fail a charge, the unit you tried to charge gets to overwatch again. More of an insult to injury change than anything, but still. did we really need this?
But don't worry, it'll all be OK! Because if you get through your assault phase, then the enemy's assault phase (provided they didn't just walk away in the movement phase), then in your shooting phase you might get to fire your pistols!
Assault is saved!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: If people are worried about a unit shooting at their chargers with overwatch, wouldn't it make sense to soften that unit up a bit with er, shooting, before you charged it, and thus make your charge less likely to be affected by overwatch?
To me the 2d6 is disappointing because we went from everything moves the same distance to a move stat that allows distinction between faster and slower units..... Except when they charge then we are all the same again. Understandable but disappointing
I'm not worried about assault armies, I would welcome it. I don't play 40k anymore (still have a passing interest) but in days past, gunning down hordes of Orks was always a favourite aspect of playing 40k.
keltikhoa wrote: To me the 2d6 is disappointing because we went from everything moves the same distance to a move stat that allows distinction between faster and slower units..... Except when they charge then we are all the same again. Understandable but disappointing
I can see where you're coming from. The superhuman space marine charges 3 inches, whilst the average joe guard trooper could charge 12 inches.
I was never a fan of infantry footslogging across the battlefield, preferring mechanised warfare and transports for the troops so they wouldn't have to worry about charge distances.
It didn't always work, but that's how I played it.
guys, wait for the whole picture; or more ideally, a game or two played before naysaying. Things literally couldn't have gotten worse for assault. Even with malice intent, there's no further down they could have dug for orks and nids.
Sorry if this was established already but Overwatch won't be such a terrible problem for assault armies as long as they don't make wound allocation come from the closest models anymore.
While double move for charge range, or movement plus a die roll would make sense for different charge ranges I can see why they ultimately stuck with the 2d6 method: lower threshold to understanding making the game less about blindly memorizing every stat block to judge charge ranges and allowing people to focus less on needing to calculate charge distances and ultimately slow gameplay down,.
really?
I dont see why remembering the basic movement you used 1 minute ago and measuring the double should be slowing the game more down than rolling a dice for a random movement each time
Remember, not only would you need to track your movement phase, but your opponent would too. Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
And much like Overwatch being something that I am hesitant about, this is a living ruleset so if changing charge rules makes the game better the community can push for it (likely movement + D6" if we use movement to deermine charge ranges) .
keltikhoa wrote: To me the 2d6 is disappointing because we went from everything moves the same distance to a move stat that allows distinction between faster and slower units..... Except when they charge then we are all the same again. Understandable but disappointing
I can see where you're coming from. The superhuman space marine charges 3 inches, whilst the average joe guard trooper could charge 12 inches.
I was never a fan of infantry footslogging across the battlefield, preferring mechanised warfare and transports for the troops so they wouldn't have to worry about charge distances.
It didn't always work, but that's how I played it.
Maybe 1D6 and add your Move stat for a charge, instead of 2d6?
the_scotsman wrote: 1) blob everything together with 6,000 interlocking layers of special rules and a handful of broken psychic powers making it all but invincible and then multi-charge everything
2) spam a handful of broken units like GSC metamorphs, Flesh Hounds, etc that are so overtuned they can run the gauntlet of shooting-favoring rules that is 7th ed and still win.
This.
Charging is broken. I cannot see why they wouldn't change it.
The 2d6 system doesn't work. It makes about as much sense as saying every unit should have to roll a certain number of dice to determine the range on their guns.
Overwatch has become far too lethal. Points changes, gun profiles, all of this might change. As it stands now however assault armies are either crap (most of them) or massive skews (Hi Space Wolves) where you might as well roll a dice at the start of the game. On a 5/6 you win in a tedious fashion, on a 1-4 you were shot off the table in three turns having accomplished next to nothing.
I really don't see the point in bringing back the movement stat if most movement ignores it. So if the basic movement value for normal infantry is between 4-7 and then you get d6 running(forgot the new name for it) and the randomness kills the small differences in movements between the units. And then when you charge your movement value again doesn't matter you just roll 2 d6. I really don't understand the reasoning in bringing MV back. Fixed charge range like double movement would have added value to positioning. Keeping your units out of charge range of the enemy and getting the charge yourself. Clever positioning would have been rewarded.
This seems like a half assed aproach. Yea, the fans want the movement value back, so we are giving it back but without much thought.
keltikhoa wrote: To me the 2d6 is disappointing because we went from everything moves the same distance to a move stat that allows distinction between faster and slower units..... Except when they charge then we are all the same again. Understandable but disappointing
I can see where you're coming from. The superhuman space marine charges 3 inches, whilst the average joe guard trooper could charge 12 inches.
I was never a fan of infantry footslogging across the battlefield, preferring mechanised warfare and transports for the troops so they wouldn't have to worry about charge distances.
It didn't always work, but that's how I played it.
Maybe 1D6 and add your Move stat for a charge, instead of 2d6?
That's what I was expecting. I'm disappointed with retaining 2d6.
ClockworkZion wrote: Remember, not only would you need to track your movement phase, but your opponent would too. Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
And much like Overwatch being something that I am hesitant about, this is a living ruleset so if changing charge rules makes the game better the community can push for it (likely movement + D6" if we use movement to deermine charge ranges) .
You know the random charge still has an upper 12" range you can just as easily skirt right?
Please explain how armies in 40k being able to skirt a guaranteed 12" was solved by making a charge likely to be less than 12"?
keltikhoa wrote: To me the 2d6 is disappointing because we went from everything moves the same distance to a move stat that allows distinction between faster and slower units..... Except when they charge then we are all the same again. Understandable but disappointing
I can see where you're coming from. The superhuman space marine charges 3 inches, whilst the average joe guard trooper could charge 12 inches.
I was never a fan of infantry footslogging across the battlefield, preferring mechanised warfare and transports for the troops so they wouldn't have to worry about charge distances.
It didn't always work, but that's how I played it.
Maybe 1D6 and add your Move stat for a charge, instead of 2d6?
Meaning that there's almost never a reason to take any unit with a slow move speed? Move + d6" doesn't really scale between units and makse slower melee units even less viable then they are already.
Besides, would you really want to see Necron Wraiths charging 18" on turn 1? No, no you would not.
Simply put, I think the Fight Phase is going to really have to favor assaulty/charging units to really keep CC armies relevant. And while I hope they don't overdo it either, GW seems to be hinting at such things on Facebook and Twitter comments, so perhaps there will be a higher risk/higher reward element to assault...?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: If people are worried about a unit shooting at their chargers with overwatch, wouldn't it make sense to soften that unit up a bit with er, shooting, before you charged it, and thus make your charge less likely to be affected by overwatch?
You do understand the issue with overwatch for assault armies isn't the volume of damage it inflicts, but the possibility that the front model or two gets picked off, making the roll for random assault distance more difficult?
And do you understand that 'softening up' a unit with shooting before assault can mean picking off front enemy models, again making the assault roll more difficult?
I'm guessing the answer is 'no' to both questions.
As others have said, it's possible that 8th addresses the issues in other ways. I'm not dusting off my sizable Tyranid army just yet, however.
I have to say, not impressed with the charge phase.
Why is overwatch still hit on 6s? Why not a hit modifier like moving with heavy weapons?
What do you mean a squad can overwatch multiple times per phase?
Why is it still 2d6 charge range? Why not double movement stat? Or at least movement + 2d6, if you are worried about them playing keep away. What's even the point of introducing a move stat if you don't even use it for something that clearly involves movement?
ClockworkZion wrote: Remember, not only would you need to track your movement phase, but your opponent would too. Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
And much like Overwatch being something that I am hesitant about, this is a living ruleset so if changing charge rules makes the game better the community can push for it (likely movement + D6" if we use movement to deermine charge ranges) .
You know the random charge still has an upper 12" range you can just as easily skirt right?
Please explain how armies in 40k being able to skirt a guaranteed 12" was solved by making a charge likely to be less than 12"?
Well now it's a max of 13", but you have a fair point. The point I was trying to say was that a flat double movement charge distance had problems too. The best method (and the one I see the community pushing for over the course of the next year) is movement + d6".
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
and staying away 11" from a unit with 10" charge move is now different from staying away 13" to be save?
the only difference is you need always the same distance instead of adjusting it to the opponents units
much simpler and easier to keep you save from being charged that way
ClockworkZion wrote: Remember, not only would you need to track your movement phase, but your opponent would too. Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
And much like Overwatch being something that I am hesitant about, this is a living ruleset so if changing charge rules makes the game better the community can push for it (likely movement + D6" if we use movement to deermine charge ranges) .
Oh god the arguments from that, too..."NO! That is 8.1 inches! Not 8.0!"
keltikhoa wrote: To me the 2d6 is disappointing because we went from everything moves the same distance to a move stat that allows distinction between faster and slower units..... Except when they charge then we are all the same again. Understandable but disappointing
I can see where you're coming from. The superhuman space marine charges 3 inches, whilst the average joe guard trooper could charge 12 inches.
I was never a fan of infantry footslogging across the battlefield, preferring mechanised warfare and transports for the troops so they wouldn't have to worry about charge distances.
It didn't always work, but that's how I played it.
Maybe 1D6 and add your Move stat for a charge, instead of 2d6?
Meaning that there's almost never a reason to take any unit with a slow move speed? Move + d6" doesn't really scale between units and makse slower melee units even less viable then they are already.
Besides, would you really want to see Necron Wraiths charging 18" on turn 1? No, no you would not.
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
and staying away 11" from a unit with 10" charge move is now different from staying away 13" to be save?
the only difference is you need always the same distance instead of adjusting it to the opponents units
much simpler and easier to keep you save from being charged that way
No, you make a choice of whether you stay just out of the average die roll for 2D6 away or further depending on options available to you and whether or not you think a counter charge would be helpful.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I have to say, not impressed with the charge phase.
Why is overwatch still hit on 6s? Why not a hit modifier like moving with heavy weapons?
What do you mean a squad can overwatch multiple times per phase?
Why is it still 2d6 charge range? Why not double movement stat? Or at least movement + 2d6, if you are worried about them playing keep away. What's even the point of introducing a move stat if you don't even use it for something that clearly involves movement?
I agree, I'm just not a fan of randomizing things that don't need to be randomized. It's the same with running. Why not just make run an additional move and charge double move? This'll make super fast units get into combat at a much easier rate. If we're going to give shooting units overwatch and the the ability to fall back, CC units should be given some advantages to balance that out.
Maybe 1D6 and add your Move stat for a charge, instead of 2d6?
That makes more sense to me. I would fully expect my necron warriors to have less of a charge threat range than my daemonettes.
Why do you not think they won't? If daemonettes have a bigger move stat then they probably will have a larger threat range, everything I'm reading so far so to be pointing at AoS style move phase then charge phase, so your threat range is Move + 2D6.
This is the first change where I thought they've dropped the ball, the change to always move is good, but what about movement 12"+ units? Or even if say a Hormagaunt is move 8, why would the charge less than their move 50% of the time? Move +d6 makes far more sense and uses the new stats to full potential.
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
and staying away 11" from a unit with 10" charge move is now different from staying away 13" to be save?
the only difference is you need always the same distance instead of adjusting it to the opponents units
much simpler and easier to keep you save from being charged that way
I'm not saying that it's not an issue with the current rules, I'm saying that the double movement charge was ultimately a poor design choice that was replaced and it has no real reason to be brought back when the movement + d6" was a better mechanic to use as it helped reduce the charge skirting that WHFB saw. Can you still potentially charge skirt with that? Yes, but it's still a better mechanic than 2d6" or double movement charges.
Plus it represents charging as what it is: a second move + run to get into combat. If run distances were fixed to be a double move like they were in WHFB then I could see a double move charge, but as is, I feel this works better.
On a side note, Space Marines move 6". Non-augmented humans will likely move 5". Eldar are likely to move 7". Hormagaunts are probably going to move 8". And while I like the humble Hormagaunt, giving it a 8" move + 16" charge (if we adopt a double move) would be insane. 24" charge range would hit most armies turn 1. Likewise bikes may have a high movement value as well, which would also give them turn one charge ranges.
So, yeah, double move charging actually opens another slew of problems since charging in 40k isn't done as part of the movement phase. I for one do not want to see alpha striking being the new go to meta, and this is coming from someone who actually likes the assault phase.
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
and staying away 11" from a unit with 10" charge move is now different from staying away 13" to be save?
the only difference is you need always the same distance instead of adjusting it to the opponents units
much simpler and easier to keep you save from being charged that way
On a side note, Space Marines move 6". Non-augmented humans will likely move 5". Eldar are likely to move 7". Hormagaunts are probably going to move 8". And while I like the humble Hormagaunt, giving it a 8" move + 16" charge (if we adopt a double move) would be insane. 24" charge range would hit most armies turn 1. Likewise bikes may have a high movement value as well, which would also give them turn one charge ranges.
wouldn't be so sure on guard moving 5", terminators have 5" move i'd expect guard will be 6" too.
Mixed feelings on this update. Dislike the random charge distances, at least given such a gaping range. Dislike multiple Overwatches (shouldn't it just be one Overwatch per Overwatching model?). Do like the POTENTIAL of a 10-12" charge (even tho I'd still prefer a static distance bonus). Do like the 1" combat range.
Maybe a better "random" charge mechanic would be 2D6 and discard the lowest die roll and add 3"? I dunno, I'm not a game designer. But while I have mixed feelings on the new Charge Phase, I'm still holding overall judgment til final rules are released. I'm too out of touch w/ 6th-7th Ed that I'm not sure how these changes/non-changes really affect units and gameplay, so I'm still gonna hold out til it's all released and I get a better understanding.
Few people thinking you get to move even if you don't make contact, why?
n the current Warhammer 40,000, you need to reach base contact. In the new edition, though, you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch.
Sounds to me that you do have to make 'contact' to charge? Sounds AoS style again to me, in that failed charge = no move. You already moved in the move phase.
Latro_ wrote: wouldn't be so sure on guard moving 5", terminators have 5" move i'd expect guard will be 6" too.
Guard aren't three meter tall posthuman supermen in power armour. Being a touch slower when walking would be appropriate. I'd be more surprised if they moved 6" to be honest.
So some random thoughts on possible rules we might see:
- If the attack strength is double or more the target's toughness the attack will do Mortal Wounds instead of normal wounds
- Attack strength might play into rend values (-1 to save if S>T for example)
- Consolidating into combat (as potentially hinted by the congaline comment on FB)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
puree wrote: Few people thinking you get to move even if you don't make contact, why?
n the current Warhammer 40,000, you need to reach base contact. In the new edition, though, you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch.
Sounds to me that you do have to make 'contact' to charge? Sounds AoS style again to me, in that failed charge = no move. You already moved in the move phase.
Because of this line:
The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit within 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.
Since it doesn't say you move only if you succeed the charge the assumption is you always move.
The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit within 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.
Since it doesn't say you move only if you succeed the charge the assumption is you always move.
So taking a teaser line out of context, and ignoring the other line that still has the words 'need' in it. Why?
The same teaser line could well have been applied to AoS, you roll 2D6 and move your unit towards any target in that range. BUT your first model still 'needs' to make 'contact' else it is failed charge. What they said here sounds exactly like that to me. Could be wrong, but the always move 2D6 seems like ignoring half of what was said in the teaser.
The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit within 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.
Since it doesn't say you move only if you succeed the charge the assumption is you always move.
So taking a teaser line out of context, and ignoring the other line that still has the words 'need' in it. Why?
Nothing about not being 'engaged in combat if not in 1"' is overruled by the "you charge, move the distance you roll". This don't have to be contradictory rules, just look at the old WHFB for an example of this being used.
Nothing about not being 'engaged in combat if not in 1"' is overruled by the "you charge, move the distance you roll". This don't have to be contradictory rules, just look at the old WHFB for an example of this being used.
I'd be more tempted to look at what they replaced WFB with. Bear in mind you have already moved, at least from the last edition of WHFB I played you charged OR move, so a failed charge still gave you some move. Not the same sequencing here.
Nothing about not being 'engaged in combat if not in 1"' is overruled by the "you charge, move the distance you roll". This don't have to be contradictory rules, just look at the old WHFB for an example of this being used.
I'd be more tempted to look at what they replaced WFB with.
Because GW has never cribbed off their old stuff for inspiration of mechanics, rules or concepts?
I'm going to dodge all the rampant speculation on if H2H is going to be good or not and just wait for the full rules before passing judgement. However, I play Orks, and though I'd love to be able to run them as a CC army, it's been so long since I could, that I just don't care anymore.
Hell, it's been so long since I could play them without getting tabled immediately, that I don't care about anything much anymore, so any improvement will be a big [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius] deal to me.
ClockworkZion wrote: Guard aren't three meter tall posthuman supermen in power armour. Being a touch slower when walking would be appropriate. I'd be more surprised if they moved 6" to be honest.
I'd be disappointed and I have a guard army amongst others. A complete reboot of the rules and the addition of a movement stat is exactly the time I'd expect for them to differentiate IG from SOB from SM from Terminators from Numarines (and those are just the "humans"). Keeping the normal human with sandals movement the same as a steroid supersoldier whose already impressive physique is additionally augmented by power armor is for me beyond surprising and fully into disappointing territory. Now's the time to differentiate orks from various humans from eldar from space marines. I don't expect RPG levels of granularity but movement should definitely be included in that spectrum IMO. Having a one size fits all charge also defeats that purpose although obviously I'd have to see the final unit rules to see if they differentiate them further there as standard. For instance, I could see orks having substandard movement like 4-5" (they're lazy, easily distracted, and lumbering typically) but the full charge value. Tau could be the opposite (shorter charge due to an inherent social look before you leap trend but full movement value) . With the marine statline staying mostly the same, I don't see GW rocking the boat like that though. :(
ClockworkZion wrote: Guard aren't three meter tall posthuman supermen in power armour. Being a touch slower when walking would be appropriate. I'd be more surprised if they moved 6" to be honest.
I'd be disappointed and I have a guard army amongst others. A complete reboot of the rules and the addition of a movement stat is exactly the time I'd expect for them to differentiate IG from SOB from SM from Terminators from Numarines. Keeping the normal human with sandals movement the same as a steroid supersoldier whose already impressive physique is additionally augmented by power armor is for me beyond surprising and fully into disappointing territory. Now's the time to differentiate orks from humans from eldar from space marines. I don't expect RPG levels of granularity but movement should definitely be included in that spectrum IMO.
Sisters wear power armour that doesn't add to their physical abilities, only reinforces them, so I'd expect them and their normal human-sized frames to move 5" as well. Now on the flipside, Assassins will likely move 7" (or more) as some of them they are faster than even Astartes.
ClockworkZion wrote: Remember, not only would you need to track your movement phase, but your opponent would too. Plus with a flat double movement charge WHFB had issues with games runniing slow thanks to people skirting charges through maintaining a fixed distance between them and the charging unit that they knew was the opposing unit's charge range. Randomness actually eliminated this issue.
And much like Overwatch being something that I am hesitant about, this is a living ruleset so if changing charge rules makes the game better the community can push for it (likely movement + D6" if we use movement to deermine charge ranges) .
You know the random charge still has an upper 12" range you can just as easily skirt right?
Please explain how armies in 40k being able to skirt a guaranteed 12" was solved by making a charge likely to be less than 12"?
Well now it's a max of 13", but you have a fair point. The point I was trying to say was that a flat double movement charge distance had problems too. The best method (and the one I see the community pushing for over the course of the next year) is movement + d6".
Says the target unit has to be within 12" just as before. 11" makes the charge. They just very slightly increased the odds of a auto success on charge rolls.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
The problem is, only some of the right units that should have the ability to bypass that flat 6 would be the ones that get it.
ClockworkZion wrote: Sisters wear power armour that doesn't add to their physical abilities, only reinforces them, so I'd expect them and their normal human-sized frames to move 5" as well. Now on the flipside, Assassins will likely move 7" (or more) as some of them they are faster than even Astartes.
In the limited sources where they care to elaborate (the novels and the defunct RPG), I could have sworn that SOB armor had some sort of movement benefit. I'll have to check that tonight.
v0iddrgn wrote: CC has been buffed in this edition based on these five elements that have been confirmed or hinted at by the designers.
1. No longer removing closest models as casualties mean Overwatch less damaging to charges.
2. Effectively adding an extra inch of charge ranges.
3. Still being able to move charging models even of they fail to engage enemy.
4. Charging units strike first (barring unforeseen special unit rules).
5. Being able to consolidate into another combat.
All of these are HUGE for the maligned assault armies of 40K. I just hope the hinted at rules come to fruition.
And how is 3 a buff for CC armies? So you close in on the enemy, making it easier to shoot you (weapon ranges) or assault you. So failing the charge and having to move just leaves you vulnerable.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
Then we would have to point up everything even more with a higher BS, because their overwatch potential would be so much higher. Stop thinking about fluff and start thinking balance.
ClockworkZion wrote: Sisters wear power armour that doesn't add to their physical abilities, only reinforces them, so I'd expect them and their normal human-sized frames to move 5" as well. Now on the flipside, Assassins will likely move 7" (or more) as some of them they are faster than even Astartes.
In the limited sources where they care to elaborate (the novels and the defunct RPG), I could have sworn that SOB armor had some sort of movement benefit. I'll have to check that tonight.
The only one I can think of from the codex stuff was that it supports its own weight.
Skullhammer wrote: Only 2+4 are confirmed by articals all the others are guess work and wishful thinking at this time.
Then they're making gak up and should be ashamed of themselves. At least with 3 it's a reasonable interpretation of the sentence from the article.
They were quite clear you need to reach 1", rather than base contact as now. It is wishful thinking by those hanging onto another sentence out of context.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
The problem is, only some of the right units that should have the ability to bypass that flat 6 would be the ones that get it.
Agreed. That's why I've always thought it should be a function of BS instead (in the past two editions) with special rules to differentiate truly capable or incapable overwatching units within the general lists. Something like a -2 to BS so that the standard human IG guardsman for instance gets a 6+ overwatch but an eldar shooty aspect warrior gets a 5+... and orks get diddly as they're two disorganized to overwatch properly (but instead should have gotten something like counterattack to make up for it or have their cost adjusted accordingly). The lazy way it was shoehorned into 7th (and possibly 6th... I don't recall at this point) should not be the template for how its done in 8th IMO.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
Then we would have to point up everything even more with a higher BS, because their overwatch potential would be so much higher. Stop thinking about fluff and start thinking balance.
The two aren't mutually exclusive unless you're lazily trying to shoehorn in a mechanic into a decade old ruleset without rocking the boat. That shouldn't be the case with this edition unlike the previous two. There is nothing inherently unbalanced with differentiating units in a points based system as long as you actually charge points for benefits (unlike with greedhammer 7th edition's formations mechanic).
The two aren't mutually exclusive unless you're lazily trying to shoehorn in a mechanic into a decade old ruleset without rocking the boat. That shouldn't be the case with this edition unlike the previous two. There is nothing inherently unbalanced with differentiating units in a points based system as long as you actually charge points for benefits (unlike with greedhammer 7th edition's formations mechanic).
Do you want armies that take the biggest guns with the best ballistic skill? Because that's how you get there. Either that or you overcost ranged units as to not be useful without taking overwatch shots.
The two aren't mutually exclusive unless you're lazily trying to shoehorn in a mechanic into a decade old ruleset without rocking the boat. That shouldn't be the case with this edition unlike the previous two. There is nothing inherently unbalanced with differentiating units in a points based system as long as you actually charge points for benefits (unlike with greedhammer 7th edition's formations mechanic).
Do you want armies that take the biggest guns with the best ballistic skill? Because that's how you get there. Either that or you overcost ranged units as to not be useful without taking overwatch shots.
Or you don't remove models from the front rank but leave it instead to the defender like in previous editions for casualties to simulate models moving up to fill the ranks . Or you limit the range of overwatch shots or prevent certain weapons from using it as they're not intended for snap fire. Or you only allow the charged unit to do it barring the occasional rare special rule. When you're desiging a new mechanic, you're not limited to one or two binary choices. It just requires much more effort and a bit of imagination compared with a galaxy wide 6 to hit regardless whether your a millenia old expert alien marksmen with nigh mythical tech or a nearsighted grandma with one eye inducted into the civilian militia during a crisis firing with a rusty iron sight. Invalidating every codex and the entire ruleset and then taking the lazy way out in rules writing isn't the road I'm hoping that GW took.
Consider the following. In AoS there are units (cavalry) with 14" move. We could safely assume there will be units that are as fast in 40k. Let's say charge = move x2. Do you really want units moving 14" and then charging 28"? Didn't think so. What about charge = move+1D6"? That's still a 14" move followed by a 15"-20" charge. At a minimum that's a 29" threat range, meaning these fast units can charge clear into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1.
Trust me, you don't want charges to involve the Movement stat in any way.
Random charge is still a thing? Can't wait for the optimism police to try and spin that one. [MODE EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]
I still don't get where people find their faith in gw being different now. [MODE EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]
They just torched 3000$ worth of rules instead of fixing them they "started fresh"... this is gw guys, fixing one thing and breaking two others is the business model.
The nail in the coffin for me is if fire arcs for vehicles are gone. I really don't want every vehicles shooting to work like a unit in an open topped transport, that's total garbage, if the game has indeed gone that brainless route it's a bridge too far.
Trust me, you don't want charges to involve the Movement stat in any way.
Why? What's wrong with movement stat plus 6 or d6? Hell I'd take guaranteed charge based off movement stat alone at this point, that or choice between guranteed move and random charge salad/
They haven't said anything about how grenades will be implemented yet, right? Maybe grenades can be used by an attacking unit to negate a defending unit's overwatch, and by a defending unit to negate an attacking unit's ability to strike first?
I mean, it's never been my favorite mechanic in the game, but I've never heard this many people whine about 2d6" charges until they were confirmed to be left in.
Mymearan wrote: To those people saying 2D6 charges are stupid:
Consider the following. In AoS there are units (cavalry) with 14" move. We could safely assume there will be units that are as fast in 40k. Let's say charge = move x2. Do you really want units moving 14" and then charging 28"? Didn't think so. What about charge = move+1D6"? That's still a 14" move followed by a 15"-20" charge. At a minimum that's a 29" threat range, meaning these fast units can charge clear into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1.
How about charge distance = movement stat? Or even charge distance = movement stat +D3 ? Or charge distance = movement stat - 3" +d6 ? Or any of the other possible combination that makes them less random?
Skullhammer wrote: Only 2+4 are confirmed by articals all the others are guess work and wishful thinking at this time.
Not specifically.
On A FB post when someone bemoaned how hard it will be to make a charge especially after removing the front models after overwatch their response was something like "We never said anything about where you remove the models from"
The poster then immediately posted back with what sounded like a defensive "That's why I said Theoretical" instead of "Cool" or "Oh, OK we will have to wait and see."
I believe in an earlier article they also hinted or implies that wound allocating is back, which also negates the need for Look Out Sir.
I am disappointed with the 2d6 charge and the existence of overwatch. They missed an opportunity, but at least it's no worse than how it used to be. In fact, it is measurably better than 7th Ed. (charge within 1"). There are still unknowns as well - whether we can Advance and then Charge, whether you still move after Charge, and whether you may consolidate into further Combats.
Mymearan wrote: To those people saying 2D6 charges are stupid:
Consider the following. In AoS there are units (cavalry) with 14" move. We could safely assume there will be units that are as fast in 40k. Let's say charge = move x2. Do you really want units moving 14" and then charging 28"? Didn't think so. What about charge = move+1D6"? That's still a 14" move followed by a 15"-20" charge. At a minimum that's a 29" threat range, meaning these fast units can charge clear into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1.
Trust me, you don't want charges to involve the Movement stat in any way.
Well, unless we combine charges with the movement phase at least. But yes, in 40k the movement stat + charge could be game breaking.
Requizen wrote: I mean, it's never been my favorite mechanic in the game, but I've never heard this many people whine about 2d6" charges until they were confirmed to be left in.
I've consistently disliked them since their introduction. It's just randomness for randomness's sake. On the flip side, I've never seen anyone in real life praise them ever either.
I believe in an earlier article they also hinted or implies that wound allocating is back, which also negates the need for Look Out Sir.
I am crossing my fingers that characters can't join units like in AoS. Instead, I hope they can just Look Out Sir wounds to nearby units - functionally equivalent to joining the unit, except they can still be targeted and you can try to put wounds on them through the LOS.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: They haven't said anything about how grenades will be implemented yet, right? Maybe grenades can be used by an attacking unit to negate a defending unit's overwatch, and by a defending unit to negate an attacking unit's ability to strike first?
We can bet on them being used as shooting and assault attack options, but no idea for other rules. I mean no initiative means it won't affect charging the way it used to.
Mymearan wrote: To those people saying 2D6 charges are stupid:
Consider the following. In AoS there are units (cavalry) with 14" move. We could safely assume there will be units that are as fast in 40k. Let's say charge = move x2. Do you really want units moving 14" and then charging 28"? Didn't think so. What about charge = move+1D6"? That's still a 14" move followed by a 15"-20" charge. At a minimum that's a 29" threat range, meaning these fast units can charge clear into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1.
Trust me, you don't want charges to involve the Movement stat in any way.
I agree full on running up the field may not be the same as charging a foe. At face value it seems the same but in the back and forth of semi-real and abstract the guy in the lead of a charge might slip in mud or trip over a branch bringing the whole group to a grinding halt after 2 inches.
For the movement plus d6 camp, it does not sound so bad though no more rolling a 2 inch if that was the case. For termies, you would be looking at 5+d6 plus the 1 inch within for an auto 7 inch threat range on charging. Not sure I am against that though rolling 2d6 is not a shoe in as we all have experienced.
I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Since you can move in the movement phase and then charge in the assault phase, your charge range is effectively your Move+2d6. The movement value is already part of your charge range, it's just split into two phases.
Personally I rather have run be a flat number and charge stay 2d6 (plus the extra 1in range increase).
The reason being making that crucial charge range is more exciting then the run move which is used to just get into charge range in most cases. I feel run move should be half your movement stat rounded up. So high movement units benefit from thier higher value. Charging and assault is already much more powerful considering chargers get to always attack first and still use thier pistols and still move even if they fail the charge.
The extra 1 in range removes some variability and allows short charges to still get off with a bad roll.
Requizen wrote: I mean, it's never been my favorite mechanic in the game, but I've never heard this many people whine about 2d6" charges until they were confirmed to be left in.
It was a major gripe people had with the change from 7th to 8th WHFB - but that seems a life time ago and I guess isn't all that relevant.
The issue is that to get around the 2d6 charge GW has felt it necessary to bulk out special rules. Mainly because it was obvious to everyone that assault units coudn't do their jobs effectively.
So everyone gets fleet, probably a buff to go further than usual, or the ability to run and charge. Often they get some forward deployment rule to get nearer to the action.
Its like the charge into cover rules. Which then had to be countered by giving almost everything that counts assault grenades (except Incubi, because no one likes Dark Eldar).
If a rule needs to be countered by another rule almost universally it probably wasn't a good rule in the first place.
Maybe 1D6 and add your Move stat for a charge, instead of 2d6?
That makes more sense to me. I would fully expect my necron warriors to have less of a charge threat range than my daemonettes.
Why do you not think they won't? If daemonettes have a bigger move stat then they probably will have a larger threat range, everything I'm reading so far so to be pointing at AoS style move phase then charge phase, so your threat range is Move + 2D6.
Maybe, but only if those Daemonettes better have at least 9" movement (6"+ their current 3" run bonus). Otherwise, if they just move 6" like AOS, they'll need to be able to run and then charge like they can in AOS. Being fragile and then loosing their high initiative and high weapon skill to avoid hits is going to be painful. Especially, with not having any ranged weapons. Daemons better get some AP modifying melee weapons to compensate.
Let's say I have 10 havocs and 4 HBs - I only really care about the HBs. Assume they are S5 / -1 / Heavy 3 / 1 damage.
Normal shooting: 5.3 wounds
Overwatch on 6s: 1.3 wounds
Overwatch on -1: 4 wounds
Those havocs get almost a full free 'round' of shooting if it's only -1.
So either heavy bolters are the cost of :
1) An average round of shooting
or
2) An average round of shooting plus the expectation of overwatch
If it's #1 then you're vastly under-pointed the effectiveness of these weapons.
If it's #2 then you have to increase the cost enough while not tripping over yourself if these weapons don't make an overwatch shot.
Mymearan wrote: To those people saying 2D6 charges are stupid:
Consider the following. In AoS there are units (cavalry) with 14" move. We could safely assume there will be units that are as fast in 40k. Let's say charge = move x2. Do you really want units moving 14" and then charging 28"? Didn't think so. What about charge = move+1D6"? That's still a 14" move followed by a 15"-20" charge. At a minimum that's a 29" threat range, meaning these fast units can charge clear into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1.
How about charge distance = movement stat? Or even charge distance = movement stat +D3 ? Or charge distance = movement stat - 3" +d6 ? Or any of the other possible combination that makes them less random?
Charge = movement would still give even 12" move units (most likely pretty common, it's the normal cavalry movement in AoS) a 24" guaranteed threat range, which could easily give you turn one charges combined with even a small amount of added movement shenanigans from abilities, spells etc. What's more, it would mean normal infantry would move 6" and charge 6"... making for example close combat Orks on foot even more unviable. The rest of your suggestions share the same problems. Basically, by basing charges on movement, you either make fast units way too fast or slow units way too slow. The only solution is to make charges similar (if not necessarily the same) regardless of unit movement. Thus, you don't want movement stat to affect charges. That doesn't mean it needs to be completely random though, I'd be fine with for example 6"+D6".
I don't even know why they have a separate charge move phase. Just make the run 2D6" instead of D6", and the run can be your assault move. Otherwise it seems odd that one unit runs and goes M+D6", another unit charges and goes M + 2D6" with plenty of time left over to fight a combat. Do people really run that much faster when they're running towards people trying to kill them?
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
This might be a bad example because a grot uses a blunderbuss which is basically a shotgun and a vindicate uses a sniper rifle. So yes the shotgun should actually be much better in short range than the sniper rifle have you ever played call of duty?
Mymearan wrote: To those people saying 2D6 charges are stupid:
Consider the following. In AoS there are units (cavalry) with 14" move. We could safely assume there will be units that are as fast in 40k. Let's say charge = move x2. Do you really want units moving 14" and then charging 28"? Didn't think so. What about charge = move+1D6"? That's still a 14" move followed by a 15"-20" charge. At a minimum that's a 29" threat range, meaning these fast units can charge clear into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1.
Trust me, you don't want charges to involve the Movement stat in any way.
There is figurately and literally a hell of alot of room between something that potentially charges 2" and a guaranteed 28". It's not an either/or binary situation of extremes. Not everything that moves fast should also charge fast and vice versa for instance. Total movement of course should be kept close watch on as well. Just for the record, the only fantasy/historical system I played with any regularity had 24"+ charges for light cav and they were brutal... but they also happened at the top of the turn and replaced normal movement. There are plenty of options available to potential rules writers if they're breaking significantly from tradition like this ruleset is.
Let's say I have 10 havocs and 4 HBs - I only really care about the HBs. Assume they are S5 / -1 / Heavy 3 / 1 damage.
Normal shooting: 5.3 wounds
Overwatch on 6s: 1.3 wounds
Overwatch on -1: 4 wounds
Those havocs get almost a full free 'round' of shooting if it's only -1.
So either heavy bolters are the cost of :
1) An average round of shooting
or
2) An average round of shooting plus the expectation of overwatch
If it's #1 then you're vastly under-pointed the effectiveness of these weapons.
If it's #2 then you have to increase the cost enough while not tripping over yourself if these weapons don't make an overwatch shot.
I assume this is directed at me since we chatted about it despite the lack of a quote. Could you try the numbers again at the -2 that I specifically mentioned? Also, in this current system, movement penalties and cover would also apply in overwatch as well. You don't shoot that heavy bolter on the move through a forest on overwatch as well as you would dug in over clear ground at a unit charging you. There is more nuance to the situation than your post implies.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
This might be a bad example because a grot uses a blunderbuss which is basically a shotgun and a vindicate uses a sniper rifle. So yes the shotgun should actually be much better in short range than the sniper rifle have you ever played call of duty?
Indeed. Sniper rifles are not hip-fire weapons. Though, for reasons unknown, the Vindicare has a pistol. Now he might actually make use of it.
v0iddrgn wrote:CC has been buffed in this edition based on these five elements that have been confirmed or hinted at by the designers.
1. No longer removing closest models as casualties mean Overwatch less damaging to charges.
2. Effectively adding an extra inch of charge ranges.
3. Still being able to move charging models even of they fail to engage enemy.
4. Charging units strike first (barring unforeseen special unit rules).
5. Being able to consolidate into another combat.
All of these are HUGE for the maligned assault armies of 40K. I just hope the hinted at rules come to fruition.
1) We have absolutely no idea what wound resolution looks like; this is blind faith.
2) Technically correct but doesn't seem massively meaningful.
3) Not actually confirmed. This could also be a bad thing - units could start declaring 12" charges with the expectation of failing to slingshot forwards and abuse the mechanics; overwatch is rarely meaningful anyway.
4) This is actually often detrimental with random charges. Whereas if charges had been fixed, it would have been a tactical game of cat and mouse to get the charge, the randomness now means that the chaff you charge to stop an assault unit now strikes first. It's effectively a punishment for aggressively pushing forwards, which I dislike. This is pretty much only exclusively good for orks - it's good and bad for all others.
5) We have no idea if consolidation even exists, let alone whether we can consolidate into combat.
Only one of the confirmed things is actually good for assault so far. That's not ideal.
Mymearan wrote:To those people saying 2D6 charges are stupid:
Consider the following. In AoS there are units (cavalry) with 14" move. We could safely assume there will be units that are as fast in 40k. Let's say charge = move x2. Do you really want units moving 14" and then charging 28"? Didn't think so. What about charge = move+1D6"? That's still a 14" move followed by a 15"-20" charge. At a minimum that's a 29" threat range, meaning these fast units can charge clear into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1.
Trust me, you don't want charges to involve the Movement stat in any way.
No, what I'd want is a 14" move, then a 14" charge, not a 28" charge. You know, to actually use the movement stat instead of relying on a totally random roll? Those units also might not have a 14" move in the world where charge was equal to movement, as they wouldn't need it so it's not a fair comparison. All random charges do is make getting into combat a total farce; you have a 30% chance to fail a 6" charge for goodness sake, that's ridiculously game defining! Why should people playing dedicated assault units have them penalised before they can do anything? It's like if you had to do a 2d6 ammo check every time you fired a gun. Rolled under 6? Too bad, you can't fire this turn. Does that sound fun? That's the situation assault is in. I would rather have people move a fixed distance away to prevent assaults and therefore be giving up ground in a game where you often need to control objective in the middle of the board than have this "well, who knoooows" nonsense. It's like fixing a papercut by cauterising it with a blowtorch - the situation is worse for it. There are many areas in a wargame where I'm happy to accept randomness; knowing where my units can actually go in a turn is absolutely not one of those.
I have no problem with the 2D6 charge if they restricted overwatch a bit, maybe just pistols and assault weapons? These tend to be small enough weapons to manoeuvre with in a short space of time, showing that you're firing on an advancing unit is pretty much your shooting in the shooting phase.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really hope that absolutely nothing in the game allows an army to influence the flat 6 they need in Overwatch to hit.
Because a grot should overwatch the same as a vindicar assassin, right? I hope the exact opposite. They should have made overwatch a function of your normal ballistic skill with a penalty to overwatch (and repriced units accordingly). Just having it be a flat one size fits the galaxy 6 is just plain lazy rules writing.
This might be a bad example because a grot uses a blunderbuss which is basically a shotgun and a vindicate uses a sniper rifle. So yes the shotgun should actually be much better in short range than the sniper rifle have you ever played call of duty?
I don't think Call of Duty is a suitable analogy... There's a reason why COD popularized the term "Quickscoping".
A space marine devastator squad has a 2+ save in cover, can move 6" (possibly more than orks and ordinary humans, though we don't know that) and still shoot at a 25% reduction in effect, can fall back from combat on their turn, and still shoot (sort of) overwatch, may not be slowed by the cover they are hiding in. Good times, good times.
An Ork Loota has a 5+ ARMOR save in cover, hits on a 6+ when moving (50% reduction in effect). They may benefit somewhat from battleshock moral rules, though we don't know for sure.
All can be balanced with careful design, of course. I'll keep an open mind.
The mentioned in the first Q&A video that you could only spend a maximum of 1 Command Point per phase.
They may have a separate Charge phase for Command Point purposes...Allowing certain armies to benefit from special command options during the Charge Phase and during the Fight Phase to set up some effective combos.
I assume this is directed at me since we chatted about it despite the lack of a quote. Could you try the numbers again at the -2 that I specifically mentioned? Also, in this current system, movement penalties and cover would also apply in overwatch as well. You don't shoot that heavy bolter on the move through a forest on overwatch as well as you would dug in over clear ground at a unit charging you. There is more nuance to the situation than your post implies.
Then what happens to units that hit on 5+ that get a -2? Cover is somewhat irrelevant in #New40K, because these numbers are before saves to keep it agnostic of armor types (which add yet another layer of complexity).
Not gonna lie - this one sours me a bit. I know we don't have all the information yet, so we don't have a full picture of everything, but I am greatly disappointed to see they kept 2D6 charge and Overwatch. They hint that CC is going to be more viable, yet keep two of the basic rules that made it non-viable in the first place. When they re-introduced Overwatch in 6th ed, I was hoping they kept to the way it was in 2nd, where you had to forego your shooting and set yourself up to be reactionary, but they just turned it in to an add'l shooting phase. Even worse that you can attempt it multiple times a turn if the initial charges were failed.
It doesn't kill my enthusiasm, but it does dull it a bit.
Requizen wrote: I mean, it's never been my favorite mechanic in the game, but I've never heard this many people whine about 2d6" charges until they were confirmed to be left in.
It was a major gripe people had with the change from 7th to 8th WHFB - but that seems a life time ago and I guess isn't all that relevant.
All the people I know that played WFB hated that random charge distance. I'm sure at the time it was wildly disliked by forum users too.
I'm surprised GW are using anything in new40k that went into the trainwreck that was WFB8 - the ruleset that killed 20+ years of gaming history. I thought they would have learnt.
I was stoked for this new edition from the rules I was hearing but this latest info is turning my nose away again. The random charge is a pretty major part of the game. :-(
kestral wrote: A space marine devastator squad has a 2+ save in cover, can move 6" (possibly more than orks and ordinary humans, though we don't know that) and still shoot at a 25% reduction in effect, can fall back from combat on their turn, and still shoot (sort of) overwatch, may not be slowed by the cover they are hiding in. Good times, good times.
An Ork Loota has a 5+ ARMOR save in cover, hits on a 6+ when moving (50% reduction in effect). They may benefit somewhat from battleshock moral rules, though we don't know for sure.
All can be balanced with careful design, of course. I'll keep an open mind.
Well, they will definitely differ in terms of point cost - an ork loota might be weaker, but there should be more of them than space marines.
When speaking of percentage reductions, one must not forget that to lose an elite warrior hurts more than in case of a cheap expendable grunt. I.e. any killed devastator weakens its squad more as opposed to an ork 'equivalent'.
I am still positive about the new edition, today's news on charge phase only made me think how fun it will be to plan the advance of my future Waaaagh!
CC oriented armies should never just advance towards the gun line - you need feints, back-up units, softening the targets first works as well. I really like the how the overwatch rules force players to do just that.
I assume this is directed at me since we chatted about it despite the lack of a quote. Could you try the numbers again at the -2 that I specifically mentioned? Also, in this current system, movement penalties and cover would also apply in overwatch as well. You don't shoot that heavy bolter on the move through a forest on overwatch as well as you would dug in over clear ground at a unit charging you. There is more nuance to the situation than your post implies.
Then what happens to units that hit on 5+ that get a -2? Cover is somewhat irrelevant in #New40K, because these numbers are before saves to keep it agnostic of armor types (which add yet another layer of complexity).
Then don't get overwatch unless there is some sort of positive bonus to their shooting.. you can't roll a 7 on a 6 sided die. I actually covered that when I elaborated on the idea. Whether it's an ork that is too undisciplined to maintain some semblance of aiming when faced with an incoming charge or a Tau drone whose cpu can't process the data fast enough to get off a viable shot. or a scared shitless IG conscript shaking too hard to aim.. they just lose out on overwatch in that situation. Overwatch IMO shouldn't be a 40k inalienable (pun intended) right but a scalable privilege. Units that don't get it should either reflect that in their points cost or have some sort of alternate ability based on their fluff (like counterattack for the orks... and if an ork has say a 4+ to shoot for some reason like a squig then it has to choose to either overwatch OR counterattack).
For those reading this, the above are just my own ideas that I spitballed a few years back when overwatch was introduced and I didn't like its implementation. They're not rumors nor do I have any insider knowledge at all regarding what hasn't been previewed already.
I was stoked for this new edition from the rules I was hearing but this latest info is turning my nose away again. The random charge is a pretty major part of the game. :-(
Personally, nowadays I dislike random charge lengths. I can see some of the reasons it was introduced in WFB, but it was a fix for a stagnant game. Why it carried over to AoS and new 40k when they could've mitigated the issue by introducing a new ruleset is beyond me. Warhammer in general is a game of inches right? Then why bother differentiating the unit's moves by only an inch or two when you're throwing a pretty sizeable 2d6 charge range? The difference in movement is lost in the charge range.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Was it ever answered if Flamers still hit automatically in Overwatch?
I fail to see how they wouldn't since they always hit automatically now wthout needing a template.
so another straight buff to Flamer weapons? Sweet. BA Tactical Squads FTW. Furioso Dreadnoughts are going to be killer if Frag Cannons stay as a Flamer type weapon.
That would be ridiculously broken. Why should shooting units get free attacks at all? Combat armies don't get free swings when other armies shoot at them.
That would be ridiculously broken. Why should shooting units get free attacks at all? Combat armies don't get free swings when other armies shoot at them.
I'd rather overwatch didn't exist but if must exist then that's what I would perfer it to be.
Then don't get overwatch unless there is some sort of positive bonus to their shooting.. you can't roll a 7 on a 6 sided die. I actually covered that when I elaborated on the idea. Whether it's an ork that is too undisciplined to maintain some semblance of aiming when faced with an incoming charge or a Tau drone whose cpu can't process the data fast enough to get off a viable shot. or a scared shitless IG conscript shaking too hard to aim.. they just lose out on overwatch in that situation. Overwatch IMO shouldn't be a 40k inalienable (pun intended) right but a scalable privilege. Units that don't get it should either reflect that in their points cost or have some sort of alternate ability based on their fluff (like counterattack for the orks... and if an ork has say a 4+ to shoot for some reason like a squig then it has to choose to either overwatch OR counterattack).
For those reading this, the above are just my own ideas that I spitballed a few years back when overwatch was introduced and I didn't like its implementation. They're not rumors nor do I have any insider knowledge at all regarding what hasn't been previewed already.
Then we're circling back to point costs.
If overwatch is considered part of the cost of the gun then:
A big shoota will be pointed very low (comparatively). A heavy bolter will need to be more points on guardsmen and even more on marines. So now marines have heavy bolters that cost too many points if they don't use them in overwatch and orks don't give one damn about any of it and field more big shootas as a result.
If overwatch is not part of the cost:
Then marines have some ridiculously effective heavy bolters well beyond anyone else and more are fielded as a result.
One way or another you have to deal with the consequences. A flat 6 means the user's abilities doesn't matter in regards to the overall cost of the weapon - it cuts out a potential factor of imbalance.
Requizen wrote: I mean, it's never been my favorite mechanic in the game, but I've never heard this many people whine about 2d6" charges until they were confirmed to be left in.
Really? Outside of army creation silliness, 2D6 charges are one of the more common complaints about the current system.
Disappointed that they haven't changed this for 8th... and it's another mark against the 'giving players what they have been asking for' claim.
v0iddrgn wrote: CC has been buffed in this edition based on these five elements that have been confirmed or hinted at by the designers.
1. No longer removing closest models as casualties mean Overwatch less damaging to charges.
2. Effectively adding an extra inch of charge ranges.
3. Still being able to move charging models even of they fail to engage enemy.
4. Charging units strike first (barring unforeseen special unit rules).
5. Being able to consolidate into another combat.
All of these are HUGE for the maligned assault armies of 40K. I just hope the hinted at rules come to fruition.
Um... 1 of these items have actually been confirmed. I don't know where you got the rest of that list from, but they most certainly have -not- been confirmed.
VS UM 
):
) :
Fingers crossed for new 
