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What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/03 18:47:23


Post by: the_scotsman


I wanted to make this post because the discovery of a bunch of my old miniatures while cleaning my parents' place took me down a long trip down memory lane thinking about the games that have come and gone over the years. The ones that were amazing, and that I wish would come back, the ones whose ideas I still look at in the rulebook and go "nobody has quite done anything like this since" and the ones that I look at in the dustbin and think "yeah, you pretty much deserve to be there, in retrospect."

To keep things mostly positive, I want to focus on the good, the games that evoke that feeling of nostalgia, where you look at your old collection and go "man, if I could just get a group of people excited about this we'd have the best time." Why did you love it? Why would you still play it, and why should people nab a set on ebay if they get the chance?

I'd also be curious to know, about your pet old game love, what caused it to fall from grace? Was there a disastrous edition, an ill-advised marketing strategy, a gameplay flaw that caused the game to fail?

For me, that beloved game will always be Privateer Press' Monsterpocalypse. It was a Kaiju-style combat game, where each player controlled one giant building-sized monster, and a small assortment of expendable tiny supporting units which would get easily swatted away, eaten etc and then respawn. For most of its lifespan, the game featured 6 factions: Godzilla-esque Dinosaurs, Cthulu Elder Monsters, Martian invaders, Transformers styled Human Mechas, Giant Power-Ranger ninjas, and alien Comet-monsters.

Players would take their turn either as the monster, or the supporting units, both of which would fight towards different goals that would frequently overlap through the course of the game. The units could somewhat slightly hurt the monsters, especially if they combined their attacks (think a whole company of tanks opening fire on Godzilla, it'd probably make him roar and reel back a bit), and of course the monster could use his precious actions to easily stomp out the puny support troops, but principally it was monster v monster, troops v troops. The game only ended when one monster went down, and the player's whole roster of troops would generally die several times over, respawning on spawn points on the game grid that were one objective to fight over.

The biggest success of the game was the way it really captured the feel of an epic monster fight movie, and how it drove its players to creatively smash up their opponents. Most of the time, any basic attack could only cause a single point of damage to the monster, in order to gain an edge over an opponent, you needed to cause collateral damage by smashing the opposing monster through buildings, hurling them into radiation, or ramming them catastrophically through whole city blocks. Nearly every monster had access to an arsenal of special attacks - a charging ram, a throw, an area of effect stomp, a swinging slam - which they could use to displace the opposing monster and smash them into the buildings, which were also represented by miniatures and were set up prior to the game. This meant that battles tended to range through the city as each player sought to use all the terrain to their advantage, and gleefully demolishing the map was half the fun of the game.

Despite its somewhat silly theme, however, it was an incredibly tactically deep game. Every attack had very specific model positioning requirements. If you wanted to ram an opposing monster, for instance, you had to start your move directly aligned with them (monsters took up four squares on the grid map, units only one) and then move directly towards them, then the opposing monster would move a number of spaces back equal to the distance you charged, and smash through any buildings they moved through for an extra point of damage each. You could also gain a clutch ranged attack as a melee-focused monster by nabbing a nearby enemy unit and flinging it, dealing a point of damage and removing an enemy unit that was causing you trouble.

The game failed for two primary reasons. First, it was released at the wrong time, before the discovery of the joys of known Expansion Sets made popular through today's LCGs and expansion based miniature games. Instead it was released during the dark age of miniature gaming: The Blind Booster Era. Not only did you not know what was in each pack, the monsters were sold separately from the units and buildings, so you could spend 14 bucks on a monster box and (very, very frequently) get a duplicate, completely wasting your money. If it were marketed like modern miniature games, with each monster packaged with a ready-built team of minions all of the same faction, its sales would have been FAR more successful. Personally, I blame Mage Knight.

Secondly, the complexity of the game really clashed with the theme. This was a game that could've appealed very strongly to a younger audience as well as adults if it had dialed back the complexity just a little bit. Each monster boasted a full 8.5x11 page's worth of special effects and abilities, which of course due to the time it was released were displayed Mage Knight style as little tiny symbols all over its base with a single massive Key Card that players had to navigate to figure out what each one did. Until you memorized the abilities of your monster, it was a nightmare. There was also a convoluted double-dice as resource management aspect of the gameplay that could quickly overwhelm younger players. And as much as the laundry list of special attacks your monster could perform were awesome, it made explaining the game very difficult when you say "ok, now you can Slam, Ram, Throw, Toss, Double Hand Throw, Fling, Headbutt, Stomp, Shoot, or Attack."

Nonetheless, Monsterpocalypse is one of those few gems of game systems that both capture their source material flawlessly, and at the same time have incredibly creative mechanics that (mostly) I haven't seen used since. I adore it greatly, and will definitely be keeping this big plastic bin of miniatures, maps, dice, and books, to play with anyone who's willing for years to come.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/03 19:23:05


Post by: Alex Kolodotschko


I've kept hold of the big plastic bin of miniatures, maps, dice, and books, to play with anyone who's willing for years to come for the last 5 years, never had a game as it's just too complex for a pick up or break out game even for experienced gamers. There's a level of list building that really needs to be explored in depth that stops it being casual.
I'd happily sell it now for the right price as it really is just gathering dust these days.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/03 19:30:27


Post by: Stormonu


Agreed on Monsterpocalypse, both the good and the bad (especially the random packaging).

For me, it's Car Wars. While the game recently came back into print, this is a game that screams for some slick redesigning with actual miniature cars instead of paper counters.

If you're not familiar with it, the game is set in a quasi-Mad Max future (and I'm talking the first Mad Max movie, not Fury Road), where everyone has put military-grade weapons on their cars, and gladitorial-like car duels are common.

Turns are broken down into 1/5 or 1/10th of second, depending on the version you are using, and while there's lots of shooting, movement is the real key to the game. Most of the game rules revolve around maneuvering - and failing to do so. Best wording in the entire game - "Car turns sideways and rolls, catching fire on a 1 or 2". So sweet when it happens to the car you just shot, so facepalmingly funny when you're on the receiving end.

Further, the allowable customization on vehicles - ranging from motorcycles, through cars and trucks, up to buses, semi's and even helicopters - is incredible. There's so many ways to evicerate your opponent that the game's big problem is also the best aspect of the game - designing your own vehicles.

With what I've learned from other games over the years, if I could get folks back into this game I'd highly recommend using prebuilt cars (via Combat Showcase) for this game, instead of building them yourselves. While the latter is great fun, as one of my friends best put it "two hours of design to watch the vehicle go up in smoke in less than two seconds in game" wasn't worth it. The game is truly best with grabbing a couple cars, and going right at it as quickly as possible.

Also, one of the best aspects of this game is it has a campaign mode, allowing you to improve and upgrade your car & crew. And if you don't want to go the autodueling route, there is enough background material to create a RPG sort of campaign, as you and your crew face the deadly roads outside the walled communities and armored truck stops of the post-gas crisis world.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/03 21:31:59


Post by: DarkTraveler777


Crimson Skies. It was an air combat game set in an alternate 1930's America which had split into smaller countries after the American Civil War. Lots of air pirates, goggles and scarves, and heroic pilots battling it out from floating zeppelin-based air fields. The game had a really wonderful setting with lots of gaming potential, but it came out in the last years of FASA's operations and didn't get "off the ground" so to speak.

I know the later Wizkids clicky-game gained some popularity, but I long for the older, FASA-era game that used metal models and hex maps. An updated version with plastic planes would be killer.

The metal minis can still be found at Iron Wind Metals, but the game has been dead for almost 2 decades except for some video game iterations that came out in the 2000's.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/03 22:36:53


Post by: Davout


Battlefleet Gothic. I see fully painted fleets on various forums and I just wish I had spent an irresponsible amount of money on the game back in the day. I downloaded the Battlefleet Gothic: Leviathan app which plays exactly like the table top game but all that does is make me wish I had the real thing to push around an awesome star mat.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 07:47:07


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crimson Skies. It was an air combat game set in an alternate 1930's America which had split into smaller countries after the American Civil War. Lots of air pirates, goggles and scarves, and heroic pilots battling it out from floating zeppelin-based air fields. The game had a really wonderful setting with lots of gaming potential, but it came out in the last years of FASA's operations and didn't get "off the ground" so to speak.

I know the later Wizkids clicky-game gained some popularity, but I long for the older, FASA-era game that used metal models and hex maps. An updated version with plastic planes would be killer.

The metal minis can still be found at Iron Wind Metals, but the game has been dead for almost 2 decades except for some video game iterations that came out in the 2000's.


A new edition using the Wings of Glory system would be the business, I think. Plus, the Wings of Glory WW2 planes are the right size to be used alongside. I say "size", because the original Crimson Skies models were never in "scale" (or even correctly proportioned, if you compare the published dimensions with the actual miniatures). The planes added in Behind the Crimson Veil and the Aircraft Recognition Manual could do with being redesigned so they better match the style of the original 14, IMO. The Pride of the Republic and Airman's Gazeteer add what are basically upgunned, rear-winged versions of the Mustang and Spitfire, so there's scope for some conversion work there.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 08:43:31


Post by: Vertrucio


Vor

It's the game that brought me into miniature gaming, and also why I'm still trying to make a miniature game now.

Although it's honestly very 90s in a way that I'm not entirely sure I can recreate today with any success.

Monsterpocalypse is sadly dead by way of legal stupidity. In signing away the movie rights, they basically signed away their ability to make their own game since they can't make merchandise for it. I actually think MonPoc could make a comeback once the license expires as a non-collectible game.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 09:15:48


Post by: master of ordinance


Sisters of Battle.
They are so far out of style that it has been over 20 years since they last got a basic update. They are still solid one piece monopose casts in an age of multipose multipart plastics.
They need the update.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 09:18:48


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I was going to say Vor: The Maelstrom, as it had some good ideas. The setting was good, although I remember that the politics of the Earth in the game were a bit ... retro (the game itself is very 90s, but the Union-Neo Soviet antagonism is very 80s) and US-centric, which was a bit hard for me to get past. The alien races were mostly well described, although the artwork was generally vastly superior to the miniatures.

The "design your own units" was hyped as the USP of the game, but it never really worked all that well; the system in the rulebook was quite basic and rather unbalanced and open to abuse (saving points by giving melee-oriented models a shooting skill of 0 for example, which made such models cheaper than equivalents in the official army lists).

I still have a large Zykhee army and a mostly-converted Pharon army buried at the bottom of the leadpile. I ended up copying Agis Neugebauer's idea for a Pharon AMP Suit, using legs and weapons from the equally OOP Ronin from Cell Entertainment. I also managed to get about a dozen unique poses from the two Anubis Warriors hat were all that got released, and added some of the contemporary Tomb Kings models as priests and the like.

I know Mike Nelson tried to revive the game after FASA decided to shut down, but FASA had ownership of all the art assets, and nothing came of it.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 09:54:45


Post by: chromedog


I'd say urban war, but it's neither OOP or out of production.

(Scotia Grendel have many of the moulds and stock of the books - if not the pdf versions) still available.

Many of the miniature games I used to play didn't have "official" miniatures for them, and though the rules have gone OOP, they are still available on the net for download - and there's no shortage of SF miniatures makers nowadays.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 10:06:37


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Following that thread back a bit further, I'd quite like an updated Kryomek. As with Vor, some of the miniatures don't quite live up to the artwork, and the Hivestone supplement book is literally broken - missing stats and rules for some new unit types and army lists that I find very hard to decipher.

There was also apparently a draft of a second supplement that would move the timeline on further, introduce new human and alien factions and hopefully fix the cockups in Hivestone. I was friends with a guy who was involved with the development of the game and had a copy of said draft, but he sadly passed away before I could persuade him to dig it out of storage.

Kryomek was probably the game that inspired me to look outside of GW; the Virgin Megastore in Glasgow used to have a wargames / RPG section on the mezzanine floor, and had a few Kryomek minis in a display cabinet.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 18:18:49


Post by: supreme overlord


Davout wrote:
Battlefleet Gothic. I see fully painted fleets on various forums and I just wish I had spent an irresponsible amount of money on the game back in the day. I downloaded the Battlefleet Gothic: Leviathan app which plays exactly like the table top game but all that does is make me wish I had the real thing to push around an awesome star mat.



this.... so much this.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 18:37:30


Post by: Hanskrampf


 master of ordinance wrote:
Sisters of Battle.
They are so far out of style that it has been over 20 years since they last got a basic update. They are still solid one piece monopose casts in an age of multipose multipart plastics.
They need the update.

Can SoB players not just shut up for one second?


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 21:27:10


Post by: Ruin


 AndrewGPaul wrote:


I know Mike Nelson tried to revive the game after FASA decided to shut down, but FASA had ownership of all the art assets, and nothing came of it.


I remember backing the KS for this, but it was just so badly timed and I don't know why they have not tried again. It was done just before wargame stuff on KS exploded was a licence to print money.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 21:33:59


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crimson Skies. It was an air combat game set in an alternate 1930's America which had split into smaller countries after the American Civil War. Lots of air pirates, goggles and scarves, and heroic pilots battling it out from floating zeppelin-based air fields. The game had a really wonderful setting with lots of gaming potential, but it came out in the last years of FASA's operations and didn't get "off the ground" so to speak.

I know the later Wizkids clicky-game gained some popularity, but I long for the older, FASA-era game that used metal models and hex maps. An updated version with plastic planes would be killer.

The metal minis can still be found at Iron Wind Metals, but the game has been dead for almost 2 decades except for some video game iterations that came out in the 2000's.


A new edition using the Wings of Glory system would be the business, I think. Plus, the Wings of Glory WW2 planes are the right size to be used alongside. I say "size", because the original Crimson Skies models were never in "scale" (or even correctly proportioned, if you compare the published dimensions with the actual miniatures). The planes added in Behind the Crimson Veil and the Aircraft Recognition Manual could do with being redesigned so they better match the style of the original 14, IMO. The Pride of the Republic and Airman's Gazeteer add what are basically upgunned, rear-winged versions of the Mustang and Spitfire, so there's scope for some conversion work there.


I could definitely get involved with a Crimson Skies games that utilized the WoG system.

Agree too on the plane designs. The originals are still my favorite, with the later designs too cartoony for my tastes. Early 2000's FASA was generally a bit crap in the art department, in my opinion. A few artists aside (Plog being one of them) the artwork used in their various games during the last few years of operations was awful.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/04 22:33:01


Post by: thekingofkings


Gotta upvote on the Vor, Urban War (Void 1.?) and honorable mention to Celtos.....But I want most of all for Confrontation to come back *(followed by a very close second by Chronopia) I too have MonPoc collecting dust. But for me the story behind both confrontation and Chronopia really did it. Chronopia had a great set of rules, a great setting, some pretty ok minis and some great fluff to go with the setting. IT hurts my soul to see a trashpile like aos alive and relatively well while Chronopia is dead.
Confrontation I love every aspect of, from Cadwallon to the video games!


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/06 13:09:40


Post by: Freddy Kruger


Hero Quest.

A fantastic game, and sadly the copy my uncle had which was left in my grandparents for me to find when I was 12 was destroyed by water when they had a boiler leak.
Great board, great cards, great artwork, everything was, and still is great. The minis? Very nicely done, even if they were all mono pose ones. The gargoyle has for a long time been one of the most recognizable miniatures from the late 80's early 90's.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/06 16:26:34


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Blind buys killed Monsterpocalypse for me. I was super psyched for that game and told everyone about it and how much the world needed a kaiju battle game. Bought a starter and three boxes and didn't get any of the monsters I wanted. Gave away what I had and never looked back. What a waste of potential.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/06 17:59:05


Post by: Floris


AT-43
The core rules for that game are almost perfect, there is no rules set that come close.

Legions of Steel (think Space Hulk) and its tabletop version Planet Storm also have a special place in my heart.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/06 18:50:14


Post by: ScarletRose


AT-43
The core rules for that game are almost perfect, there is no rules set that come close.


AT-43 was good, it had some interesting ideas and even now the terrain that came with some of the sets is highly sought after. I think what let it down was the pre-painted infantry - they were bendy and not great. The pre-painted vehicles were nice though since they used actual hard plastic.



What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/06 18:55:33


Post by: Galas


Heroscape. Yeah, the miniatures weren't that good, but the gameplay was very straitforward, and everyone of the children I have introduce to wargaming with that game have stayed.

Is just a perfect game to introduce new-comers to wargames/boardgames!


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/06 21:50:52


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 master of ordinance wrote:
Sisters of Battle.
They are so far out of style that it has been over 20 years since they last got a basic update. They are still solid one piece monopose casts in an age of multipose multipart plastics.
They need the update.


Over 20 years? So they last got an update in 1996?

U sure about that?


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/06 22:24:43


Post by: Davout


The basic sister models today are the same models that appear in the 3rd edition rule book. The army got an update when the Witch Hunters codex came out but the basic sisters stayed the same.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 01:30:38


Post by: AegisGrimm


A second vote for AT-43. I have the 4 main factions, and the game plays great. I love the mechanic of a Universal Table of Resolution. And I don't care who hates me for it, but I love the rules for Confrontation: Age of Ragnorok. If it wouldn't have been for the earlier editions of Confrontation, I think lots more people would have a positive image of it, for the same reasons as AT-43. Same solid rules, with some improvements (though the command system of AT-43 was great but not a part of Confrontation.)


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 01:49:37


Post by: ZergSmasher


I used to play the daylights out of the Wizards of the Coast Star Wars Miniatures game. I've still got all my minis, like over 2000 of them. The game was somewhat simplistic, being aimed at least partly at kids, but I found it enjoyable anyway. I think the basic game could be expanded on and made into a viable tabletop wargame kind of like Warhammer 40k. The rules need to be fleshed out some is all. At one point I started brainstorming ideas to at least convert it to measured movement instead of being stuck on a map grid, but I never even got to the playtesting phase of that. I think there is a potential market for a Star Wars ground combat game like that if it was done right. The Star Wars name and IP should be enough to make it popular, if X-wing is anything to go by (of course X-wing is also a very well-designed game).


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 02:03:11


Post by: Genoside07


I am going to say Shadow War because my FLGS said today the reprint was a one and done release again...
Why does Games Workshop like to throw away money??


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 08:16:42


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


Davout wrote:
The basic sister models today are the same models that appear in the 3rd edition rule book. The army got an update when the Witch Hunters codex came out but the basic sisters stayed the same.


So the army hasn't had an update, except when it got updated. Seems legit. After that long with the same model, I think it's a clue that they aren't a main line.

Overlooked games - can I suggest LOTR?


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 11:23:06


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Freddy Kruger wrote:
Hero Quest.

A fantastic game, and sadly the copy my uncle had which was left in my grandparents for me to find when I was 12 was destroyed by water when they had a boiler leak.
Great board, great cards, great artwork, everything was, and still is great. The minis? Very nicely done, even if they were all mono pose ones. The gargoyle has for a long time been one of the most recognizable miniatures from the late 80's early 90's.


Heroquest is a game better remembered than played, I think. The worst aspect is that monsters only have 1 Body Point (even the Gargoyle) and there's only 1 evil Shield icon on the combat dice. Advanced Heroquest, on the other hand ...


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 11:31:54


Post by: Necro


I would like to see a DUNE table minature game. I am sure somone would have made one at some point.

Would also like to see Gothic come back


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 18:35:49


Post by: leopard


Battle Rider/Brilliant Lances from GDW, though with the acceleration mechanic corrected to assume constant acceleration not instantaneous acceleration.

Oh and for Battle Rider the realisation that printing the stats on a bit of paper makes more sense than the back of the counter.

Once of the best scenario systems I've ever seen.


Would also like 'Harpoon' to come back


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2022/11/04 06:43:23


Post by: paulson games


 master of ordinance wrote:
Sisters of Battle.


My Rogue Trader era Squats play the world's smallest violin for you. SOB models may be very dated but they've still gotten updated rules and have remained available with more love than other ranges that were completely dropped. If I want Squats or Zoats I need a time machine.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/07 20:41:17


Post by: leopard


Did used to love the 1st edition Squat models, managed to pick up a range of them in a GW January sale (which dates that), all metal, had about four squads of foot troops, two of bikes and about six trikes to go with them.

Beautiful models, dropped by a company who ran out of ideas - personally in that case would have just folded them into the Imperial Guard as an alternative as a parking place.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/08 13:43:46


Post by: JMMelo


B5 - A Call to Arms

Mongoose lost the rights to Babylon 5 and the miniatures are pretty much impossible to find. There were fleets for pretty much every race covered in the TV show, and the minis were great. Rules were good too!


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/08 21:15:46


Post by: thekingofkings


 AegisGrimm wrote:
A second vote for AT-43. I have the 4 main factions, and the game plays great. I love the mechanic of a Universal Table of Resolution. And I don't care who hates me for it, but I love the rules for Confrontation: Age of Ragnorok. If it wouldn't have been for the earlier editions of Confrontation, I think lots more people would have a positive image of it, for the same reasons as AT-43. Same solid rules, with some improvements (though the command system of AT-43 was great but not a part of Confrontation.)


You will hear no hate from me on Confrontation, Love the game and have been adding to my already huge forces. Actually have a solid group of players here still giving it a go, 4 of us


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/09 08:03:29


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I liked the rules for Confrontation: The Age of Rag'Narok (I take it you mean the unit-based game with the pre-painted plastic miniatures on round bases, as opposed to the one released previously which was an expansion to Confrontation and used the metal miniatures on square bases?). The main problem was the slow release schedule and poor availability of products - a lack of sufficient capital to expand properly, I think.

The starter set was also a problem; it worked well enough, but the combinations of units included meant that everyone hit on a 4+, wounded on a 4+. Unlike the AT-43 starter, there was no variation.

I've still got the bags of round bases I ordered to re-base my metal Confrontation models, and my collection is now a motley mix of square and round-based models.

Hybrid was also a good idea, crippled by a rulebook that was badly translated, and as far as I can tell, badly written and laied out in the original French.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/09 16:26:54


Post by: leopard


JMMelo wrote:
B5 - A Call to Arms

Mongoose lost the rights to Babylon 5 and the miniatures are pretty much impossible to find. There were fleets for pretty much every race covered in the TV show, and the minis were great. Rules were good too!


They had the rights for the Star Fleet Battles models as well for a while, which were pulled for reasons unknown and now essentially hard to get here, a pity as I wanted some of them.

They did a nice WW2 navy game "Victory at Sea" which is worth a look in its 1st edition, which was more or less killed by a very long gestation of its 2nd edition and a terrible release rate for models..


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/09 20:49:54


Post by: Vertrucio


GWAR was just the Shock Force rules, which have been revived as generic rules somewhere already.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/09 21:56:39


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/10 18:51:35


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


Do what? Necro has one of the strongest player bases and creative impetus communities out there! That game builds fans for life.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/10 18:52:27


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


Do what? Necro has one of the strongest player bases and creative impetus communities out there! That game builds fans for life.


I know but it would be nice to have an official miniature line again.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/10 18:58:27


Post by: Genestealer Jesse


I would like to see Warhammer Ancient Battles become more mainstream. 2nd ED D&D Battlesystem is quite nice and I still have my copy. Is anyone still playing Johnny Reb?


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/10 20:31:02


Post by: Brian2112


Robo Rally.

Nothing will ruin a friendship faster than Robo Rally (well, possibly Xanth, Family Business, Cosmic Encounter or Junta).

If I knew how much the original expansions would be selling for, I would have purchased every one I found and I could have retired by now. I know you can find the Hasbro/AH reprint cheap, but this game really needs expansion boards.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/10 20:53:52


Post by: ProfViolence


WoTC's Chainmail game; the one released with 3rd edition. Great looking minis (dual purpose if you played tabletop). Tight rules that gave a fun, not too long game. You could also easily add to the models playable once you figured out the way stats were translated from 3rd edition D&D.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/11 03:36:59


Post by: Mattlov


 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crimson Skies. It was an air combat game set in an alternate 1930's America which had split into smaller countries after the American Civil War. Lots of air pirates, goggles and scarves, and heroic pilots battling it out from floating zeppelin-based air fields. The game had a really wonderful setting with lots of gaming potential, but it came out in the last years of FASA's operations and didn't get "off the ground" so to speak.

I know the later Wizkids clicky-game gained some popularity, but I long for the older, FASA-era game that used metal models and hex maps. An updated version with plastic planes would be killer.

The metal minis can still be found at Iron Wind Metals, but the game has been dead for almost 2 decades except for some video game iterations that came out in the 2000's.


I still have a ton of Crimson Skies stuff. It's a great game.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 18:41:32


Post by: StygianBeach


 thekingofkings wrote:
Gotta upvote on the Vor, Urban War (Void 1.?) and honorable mention to Celtos.....But I want most of all for Confrontation to come back *(followed by a very close second by Chronopia) I too have MonPoc collecting dust. But for me the story behind both confrontation and Chronopia really did it. Chronopia had a great set of rules, a great setting, some pretty ok minis and some great fluff to go with the setting. IT hurts my soul to see a trashpile like aos alive and relatively well while Chronopia is dead.
Confrontation I love every aspect of, from Cadwallon to the video games!


I would hope that someone sporting a Repulsar Knight as an avatar would be supportive of Chronopia. I am just sad that Prince August dropped all its Chronopia stuff before I could finish my Blackbloods and I still feel like I did not get enough Stygian in the end.
If Chronopia got relaunched I would like it merged with Leviathan, combining the fluff, but using Chronopia rules. Leviathan has the second best Wargaming fluff I have read, the gaming rules are not so good.

Celtos is basically D10 Warhammer FB skirmish, which should have been an easy sell at the time. It is still up and running at Brigade models. I love many of the designs, but the executions are not quite as good as they should be.

The best fluff belongs to Clan War, the wargame rules for the Legend of the Five Rings setting, the game rules are a mess and now that Fantasy Flight have bought the IP I am less interested in a relaunch than previously.

So I would love to see Clan War return, but under AEG not FF.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 18:45:53


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


Do what? Necro has one of the strongest player bases and creative impetus communities out there! That game builds fans for life.


I know but it would be nice to have an official miniature line again.


Why? There's an infinite amount of choice and models out there. Get creative!


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 19:10:38


Post by: infinite_array


 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


Do what? Necro has one of the strongest player bases and creative impetus communities out there! That game builds fans for life.


I know but it would be nice to have an official miniature line again.


Why? There's an infinite amount of choice and models out there. Get creative!


Playing Necromunda in the UK is basically an excuse to buy the whole Gang deal from Heresy Miniatures.
Spoiler:


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 19:12:20


Post by: Stevefamine


 Mattlov wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crimson Skies. It was an air combat game set in an alternate 1930's America which had split into smaller countries after the American Civil War. Lots of air pirates, goggles and scarves, and heroic pilots battling it out from floating zeppelin-based air fields. The game had a really wonderful setting with lots of gaming potential, but it came out in the last years of FASA's operations and didn't get "off the ground" so to speak.

I know the later Wizkids clicky-game gained some popularity, but I long for the older, FASA-era game that used metal models and hex maps. An updated version with plastic planes would be killer.

The metal minis can still be found at Iron Wind Metals, but the game has been dead for almost 2 decades except for some video game iterations that came out in the 2000's.


I still have a ton of Crimson Skies stuff. It's a great game.



I play tested Crimson Skies - the 2003 one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson_Skies





Loved it - and enjoyed the flight cards and way it played


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 20:05:25


Post by: badguyshaveallthefun


8th edition Warhammer Fantasy.

The game easily could have coexisted alongside AoS as one is a skirmish game (something done better by other game systems, among them LoTR, something GW already owns) and the other is a mass-combat blocks of units type of game, which is what I'm after.

9th screwed everything up by nerfing everything that was good and taking away the randomness and the fun/uniqueness of the individual armies in order to make the game "balanced". And good luck trying to talk to them about it on their forums, as you're immediately shouted down by all the nerd-raging fanboys of the system.

Kings of War I hear is good but around my area exactly 0 people play it so that's out.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 21:18:14


Post by: thekingofkings


 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
8th edition Warhammer Fantasy.

The game easily could have coexisted alongside AoS as one is a skirmish game (something done better by other game systems, among them LoTR, something GW already owns) and the other is a mass-combat blocks of units type of game, which is what I'm after.

9th screwed everything up by nerfing everything that was good and taking away the randomness and the fun/uniqueness of the individual armies in order to make the game "balanced". And good luck trying to talk to them about it on their forums, as you're immediately shouted down by all the nerd-raging fanboys of the system.

Kings of War I hear is good but around my area exactly 0 people play it so that's out.


A common source of the hate for AoS, it is not a spiritual successor in any way to warhammer but an entirely different game (and IMO an incredibly terrible one, especially compared to its competition) but GW could not have competing interests like that sadly. Fixing warhammer would likely have made AoS unsustainable, once you get outside its "home turf" sites, it is almost universally reviled. I realize that game has its true fans, but I have seen no real improvement with the generals handbooks, the same core "4" pages of rules (which IMO are really not good at all) have not changed to fixed what is essentially a "mob of dice" game.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 21:30:54


Post by: badguyshaveallthefun


Sadly around my part AoS and WH40k/30k are the games to be playing. Anything else and you're doing it wrong.

Warmahordes does have a following here, it's about the size of our AoS following but the AoS guys are a lot more vocal about their events.

I WANT to like AoS I really do, but I just DON'T want a skirmish game. I want blocks of infantry. I LOVE the movement phase and being able to redirect/avoid charge LoS. AoS and 40k both neglect that very important aspect (to me) of tabletop gaming.

Fortunately there's a small group around here that still plays 8th (4 people that I know of) so I can still get a game in every couple of weeks.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 22:57:14


Post by: Tamereth


WHFB, 8th had it's issues but could have been made great with a few changes. The idea in the end times books to have characters on mounts as one entity for instance was wonderful.

The biggest drawback of the game had for a long time been the cost, making units of 40 men when a box of ten was £25, and realising you needed half a dozen units like that for a good sized army was too much of a barrier for entry. Better value core unit boxes were needed.

I'll also give a shout out to the old B5 call to arms game. Only ever played 2 - 3 games of it but what a lovely model range. Probably helps that I loved the show.



What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/12 23:48:55


Post by: TheAuldGrump


 infinite_array wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


Do what? Necro has one of the strongest player bases and creative impetus communities out there! That game builds fans for life.


I know but it would be nice to have an official miniature line again.


Why? There's an infinite amount of choice and models out there. Get creative!


Playing Necromunda in the UK is basically an excuse to buy the whole Gang deal from Heresy Miniatures.
Spoiler:
Or, if you want Escher - the Raging Hero Jail Birds -


The Auld Grump - lords and ladies, I hate the Raging Heroes website....


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/13 03:40:49


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Does any place States side sell Raging Heroes?


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/13 06:42:19


Post by: thekingofkings


 StygianBeach wrote:
 thekingofkings wrote:
Gotta upvote on the Vor, Urban War (Void 1.?) and honorable mention to Celtos.....But I want most of all for Confrontation to come back *(followed by a very close second by Chronopia) I too have MonPoc collecting dust. But for me the story behind both confrontation and Chronopia really did it. Chronopia had a great set of rules, a great setting, some pretty ok minis and some great fluff to go with the setting. IT hurts my soul to see a trashpile like aos alive and relatively well while Chronopia is dead.
Confrontation I love every aspect of, from Cadwallon to the video games!


I would hope that someone sporting a Repulsar Knight as an avatar would be supportive of Chronopia. I am just sad that Prince August dropped all its Chronopia stuff before I could finish my Blackbloods and I still feel like I did not get enough Stygian in the end.
If Chronopia got relaunched I would like it merged with Leviathan, combining the fluff, but using Chronopia rules. Leviathan has the second best Wargaming fluff I have read, the gaming rules are not so good.

Celtos is basically D10 Warhammer FB skirmish, which should have been an easy sell at the time. It is still up and running at Brigade models. I love many of the designs, but the executions are not quite as good as they should be.

The best fluff belongs to Clan War, the wargame rules for the Legend of the Five Rings setting, the game rules are a mess and now that Fantasy Flight have bought the IP I am less interested in a relaunch than previously.

So I would love to see Clan War return, but under AEG not FF.


1) you can never have ENOUGH stygian
2) yeah I have leviathan too
3) I command the firstborn obviously


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/13 11:30:13


Post by: Nevelon


Silent Death. Decent fighter game that was easy to play, had simple enough damage rules that your could have respectably sized armies, and a very cool one roll to hit/damage mechanic that made for a interesting assortment of weapons.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/13 13:41:40


Post by: Eilif


I come back to Necromunda every time though hopefully soon it might no longer be OOP, It's a testament to the awesomeness of the game that a decade after it was abandoned by GW it has a dedicated fan base and even an excellent fan update of the rules that had real traction.

It feels like a game that is perfectly suited to the rules, it's got a great campaign system that is both flavorful and just random enough to be really fun. The setting is great and a good portion of the minis still hold up today.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/13 15:44:14


Post by: ZergSmasher


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does any place States side sell Raging Heroes?

My FLGS has some of the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy models for sale. I bought one to use as an Inquisitor for 40k.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/13 22:32:32


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Nevelon wrote:
Silent Death. Decent fighter game that was easy to play, had simple enough damage rules that your could have respectably sized armies, and a very cool one roll to hit/damage mechanic that made for a interesting assortment of weapons.


I've got the official Star Wars conversion (published by Wizards of the Coast when they had the Star Wars game licence) on ODF somewhere. Never did get around to trying it out.

Those Roginshirroz Jailbirds are pretty nice minis, but Escher? Nah. The look's all wrong. They're pretty good Orlocks, from what I can figure out in that picture. To be Escher they need more animal print, leather, hairspray and general 80s glam hair metal.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/14 15:36:51


Post by: TheAuldGrump


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does any place States side sell Raging Heroes?
FRPGames.Com has some, but could really do with a restock.

Likewise, Coolminiornot.Com has some - but needs a restock.

The Auld Grump



What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/14 19:29:08


Post by: LuciusAR


I'd say the LOTR:SBG. It's still available but sadly out of style. There is a niche group of hardcore gamers in my area thankfully, but on the whole one of the most common complaints for many is that is next to impossible to find an opponent.

Honestly I think it's one of the best games GW ever did. It was balanced, clean, flexible and I hardly heard a single rules based argument in any game I played or witnessed.

Sadly it never did quite as well as it deserved as it was unfairly perceived to be aimed at kids and thus beneath real gamers or to be detrimental to GWs other core games.

I'd like to see it make a comeback, and perhaps under forgeworld it might remain afloat but it'll never be as big as it once was.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/14 20:38:46


Post by: thekingofkings


 LuciusAR wrote:
I'd say the LOTR:SBG. It's still available but sadly out of style. There is a niche group of hardcore gamers in my area thankfully, but on the whole one of the most common complaints for many is that is next to impossible to find an opponent.

Honestly I think it's one of the best games GW ever did. It was balanced, clean, flexible and I hardly heard a single rules based argument in any game I played or witnessed.

Sadly it never did quite as well as it deserved as it was unfairly perceived to be aimed at kids and thus beneath real gamers or to be detrimental to GWs other core games.

I'd like to see it make a comeback, and perhaps under forgeworld it might remain afloat but it'll never be as big as it once was.


LOTR was what I was hoping AoS would have been rules wise.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/15 08:05:09


Post by: Stormonu


 Stevefamine wrote:
 Mattlov wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crimson Skies. It was an air combat game set in an alternate 1930's America which had split into smaller countries after the American Civil War. Lots of air pirates, goggles and scarves, and heroic pilots battling it out from floating zeppelin-based air fields. The game had a really wonderful setting with lots of gaming potential, but it came out in the last years of FASA's operations and didn't get "off the ground" so to speak.

I know the later Wizkids clicky-game gained some popularity, but I long for the older, FASA-era game that used metal models and hex maps. An updated version with plastic planes would be killer.

The metal minis can still be found at Iron Wind Metals, but the game has been dead for almost 2 decades except for some video game iterations that came out in the 2000's.


I still have a ton of Crimson Skies stuff. It's a great game.



I play tested Crimson Skies - the 2003 one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson_Skies





Loved it - and enjoyed the flight cards and way it played


I had the original Crimson Skies game (and as many add-ons as I could find), and picked up the cliks game too. But I could never get anyone interested in playing it. Then, along comes X-Wing.... :(

Same thing happened with Silent Death. Ditto for Renegade Legion: Interceptor

And Noble Armada (for the Fading Suns game).

And Leviathans

But the space combat game I wish had taken off and had a lot of design space for fun expansions was Battleship: Galaxies. I wish I'd bought 2 or 3 copies of that base game alone.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/15 11:10:30


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I spent more money than is probably healthy getting the last few sets of the Clicky Skies models after they went out of production. A fun game, but plotting out the moves with the octagons was fiddly (and if you set up your planes at an angle to the board edges, it really confused the opponent).

Also, I really love that Sanderson FB14 Vampire. Slow as a week in the jail, but it looks the business.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/15 13:00:26


Post by: the_scotsman


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


Do you realize that the two systems actually aren't incompatible with one another? You can easily play Shadow War by the Necromunda campaign rules (the skills are basically all the same) and you can play Necromunda gangs in Shadow War.

If people playing Shadow War aren't interested in letting you just port over your Necromunda Gang, the Genestealer Cult faction essentially has every single weapon option that Necromunda had, if not more. Flamers, Webbers, Stubbers, Autoguns, Shotguns, Pistols, they're pretty much all in there.

Other than pistols being usable in close combat and a very slight Parry nerf, there aren't many actual rules changes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I've kept hold of the big plastic bin of miniatures, maps, dice, and books, to play with anyone who's willing for years to come for the last 5 years, never had a game as it's just too complex for a pick up or break out game even for experienced gamers. There's a level of list building that really needs to be explored in depth that stops it being casual.
I'd happily sell it now for the right price as it really is just gathering dust these days.


I've actually found that it's not that hard to run a pickup game/league if you build preset lists for a set of monsters and make some better visual aids to help understand the various attacks than the game originally offered. Set up two pages, one on either side of the board, that say "here's what you can do with your monster" and "Here's what you can do with your units" and people generally have a great time trying to pull off the various special attacks and then set up for them with their units. The biggest thing people have difficulty grasping in my experience are the white "action dice" and the red "super dice" that you get and can spend in two different ways.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/15 19:32:45


Post by: Eilif


the_scotsman wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Necromunda.

SW:A is great and all, but its not Necromunda. Its a Kill Team themed Necromunda-lite without the Hive Gang theme that gave Necromunda a lot of its appeal. And I say that as someone who never even played Necromunda, I just enjoyed reading White Dwarf battle reports back in the early 2000's.

Bringing back Hive Gangs as warbands PDFs for SW:A (or at least one Hive Gang warband PDF with special rules and variants for the different gangs) and a more in-depth campaign system akin to the old Necromunda campaigns would be a good ad hoc solution.


Do you realize that the two systems actually aren't incompatible with one another? You can easily play Shadow War by the Necromunda campaign rules (the skills are basically all the same) and you can play Necromunda gangs in Shadow War.

If people playing Shadow War aren't interested in letting you just port over your Necromunda Gang, the Genestealer Cult faction essentially has every single weapon option that Necromunda had, if not more. Flamers, Webbers, Stubbers, Autoguns, Shotguns, Pistols, they're pretty much all in there.

Other than pistols being usable in close combat and a very slight Parry nerf, there aren't many actual rules changes.


You're both right. However, compatibility doesn't bring the accessibility that most gamers need and which would require a new rulebook and production of minis.

I still play Necromunda and I have some friends who do also. We're lucky enough to have plenty of necromunda minis, but that's far from the norm. Despite the rules being free, if you want to use the minis that match the fluff, it can be an expensive and time-consuming proposition. There are some good proxy and conversion options, but until GW brings out a new version, it will remain on the margins.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/16 13:53:37


Post by: KTG17


Wow I am surprised no one has mentioned Epic. Granted I know new Adeptus Titanicus is on the way, but honestly if they just re-released SM2/TL just as it was all over again, I am sure it would be popular.

Some peeps have mentioned Vor, and I will agree. Vor has a couple of silly factions, but some of them are really cool, and the game is really gritty and interesting to play. Most of the minis suck tho, and I prefer really nice official minis.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/16 15:17:20


Post by: TheAuldGrump


Warhammer Fantasy Battle 3rd edition. (Still my favorite edition of the game.)

The Auld Grump


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/16 15:19:44


Post by: Mattlov


 Stevefamine wrote:
 Mattlov wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crimson Skies. It was an air combat game set in an alternate 1930's America which had split into smaller countries after the American Civil War. Lots of air pirates, goggles and scarves, and heroic pilots battling it out from floating zeppelin-based air fields. The game had a really wonderful setting with lots of gaming potential, but it came out in the last years of FASA's operations and didn't get "off the ground" so to speak.

I know the later Wizkids clicky-game gained some popularity, but I long for the older, FASA-era game that used metal models and hex maps. An updated version with plastic planes would be killer.

The metal minis can still be found at Iron Wind Metals, but the game has been dead for almost 2 decades except for some video game iterations that came out in the 2000's.


I still have a ton of Crimson Skies stuff. It's a great game.



I play tested Crimson Skies - the 2003 one

Loved it - and enjoyed the flight cards and way it played


Yeah, I was referring to the original version. The clix version just didn't do as much for me. The minis were nice though, and a great way to expand your squadrons.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/16 21:39:21


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I went as far as doing a nice colour laminated version of the movement chart for Crimson Skies, to make it easier to see which turns were too difficult for my plane (and so I could use a whiteboard pen to mark the hexes containing pointy rocks, so I didn't crash so much!)


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/17 11:41:53


Post by: Taarnak


Ruin wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:


I know Mike Nelson tried to revive the game after FASA decided to shut down, but FASA had ownership of all the art assets, and nothing came of it.


I remember backing the KS for this, but it was just so badly timed and I don't know why they have not tried again. It was done just before wargame stuff on KS exploded was a licence to print money.

Dude disappeared into the wilds of Canada never to be heard from again...

Seriously though, he moved to Canada and then communication about the possible re-launch just tapered into nothing. The website eventually stopped working and then that was it.

I'm not sure how far he would have gotten with this anyway since he flat out refused to try to get new miniatures made for the game. Insisted that the existing stuff was great and people would still buy plenty. I loved VOR. It was ahead of it's time in rules, and at the same time interestingly quaint in some of the setting, but, the models ranged from ok to straight up bad. No way was that dog gonna hunt, especially when put up against the likes of Infinity.

 thekingofkings wrote:
Gotta upvote on the Vor, Urban War (Void 1.?) and honorable mention to Celtos.....But I want most of all for Confrontation to come back *(followed by a very close second by Chronopia) I too have MonPoc collecting dust. But for me the story behind both confrontation and Chronopia really did it. Chronopia had a great set of rules, a great setting, some pretty ok minis and some great fluff to go with the setting. IT hurts my soul to see a trashpile like aos alive and relatively well while Chronopia is dead.
Confrontation I love every aspect of, from Cadwallon to the video games!

Oh man would I ever love a Chronopia reboot. Unfortunately, that would probably involve Prodos, so major no go for me.

If someone got the rights who wasn't Prodos, then there would be some potential for joy. For me it would need to involve modern sculpting and production. The art was mostly decent, but I'd love to see some other artists in addition to Adrian Smith work on it.

I've even started trying to figure out a way to work the Sons of Kronos into AoS. I'm thinking some Kairic Acolytes converted to warriors, Tree Revenants to be Viridian Lords, maybe Shieldwolf Shieldmaidens to be Maidens of the Blade. Add in some Mantic Zombies to support the Shadow Tribe. Hmmm...

~Eric


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 0021/05/17 13:18:41


Post by: Turnip Jedi


Brian2112 wrote:
Robo Rally.

Nothing will ruin a friendship faster than Robo Rally (well, possibly Xanth, Family Business, Cosmic Encounter or Junta).

If I knew how much the original expansions would be selling for, I would have purchased every one I found and I could have retired by now. I know you can find the Hasbro/AH reprint cheap, but this game really needs expansion boards.


I love Robo-Rally, seeing people doing 'the shuffle' in their chairs trying to figure out turns, I still unleash it a couple of times a year at my gaming club

I also have a soft spot for Dark Future, it's fluff was joyfully silly and a trawl of charity shops for die-cast cars could net you a new agency/gang for next to nowt, still wish they 'finished' the story


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/17 13:57:55


Post by: Praxus


I saw the thread title, and came here to say Monsterpocalypse, but the OP already covered it quite well!

I will never get rid of that game, no matter how long it sits unplayed. That was the perfect 2-player skirmish game for me.

That said, I never got to play games like Necromunda or Mordheim. I just picked up the Shadow War: Armageddon book, and am working to get a group going for that. I doubt it will supplant Monsterpocalypse for me, but it might end up as a close second


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/17 14:00:58


Post by: nwns


A second shout for Car Wars but then I own it and still play it with my son. Great Game


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/17 22:24:03


Post by: Nevelon


 nwns wrote:
A second shout for Car Wars but then I own it and still play it with my son. Great Game


I killed a lot of time in high school playing Car Wars. Tons of fond memories. But after the Ogre KS, I started to follow SJG’s update of it and realized that I’d moved on. As had, IMHO, the gameing world. I’d love spending weeknights tweaking car designs. Trying to balance cost/weight/space to make the most lethal thing in the arena. And then spend all weekend duking it out with my friends.

Ain’t nobody got time for that anymore.

I don’t see people interested in that depth of number crunching. Do people play all-day games anymore? If you are just using pre-builts in a 2 person duel, it would probably work. But we never played that way.

I thought the direction that they were going while I was still reading updates was great. More streamlined, still a decent chunk of customization, but not as fidgety. Game play seemed smoother as well. But it was not Car Wars to me. And there is a limet of how much time and effort I am willing to invest in getting people to try a old/new game. My hobby time is already less then I’d like.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/17 22:29:51


Post by: ShaneCR


Car wars!
We converted it to miniatures using micro machines.
Uncle Albert's Auto Stop and Gunnery Shop!


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/17 23:45:11


Post by: Nevelon


ShaneCR wrote:
Car wars!
We converted it to miniatures using micro machines.
Uncle Albert's Auto Stop and Gunnery Shop!


We made a 3x sized arena out of foam core and up-gunned some matchbox cars. Much better as a mini’s game. Less likely to scatter everything if a breeze hits the table.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/18 14:00:17


Post by: oni


Dreadfleet.

Seriously, I really enjoy the game. I wish people would have given it a play and not written it off so quickly.

...and Epic 40,000. I would love to play this game again.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/18 23:07:56


Post by: TheAuldGrump


They gave up on Dreadfleet because the rules, well, sucked, and were way too random. (Even for a GW game.)

That said, some of the miniatures were really quite nice - and if they had come out with a complete replacement for the rules set, they might have been able to salvage the minis, at least.

Heck, if they had just come out with rules to use the Dreadfleet minis with Man O' War.

The Auld Grump


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/27 19:50:42


Post by: Shrapnelsmile


AT - 43. I wish someone would purchase the rights and molds. I was a Sentinel for years and they were some of the best gaming sessions of my life.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/28 13:30:22


Post by: Eilif


 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
AT - 43. I wish someone would purchase the rights and molds. I was a Sentinel for years and they were some of the best gaming sessions of my life.


I heard that the molds had rusted and been destroyed. I wish someone had at least acquired the molds for the shipping containers. They remain just about the best wargaming cans ever made.

To say nothing of the figures and vehicles that surely could have been repurposed by another indie game company. Making the molds is the expensive part, imagine what a creative indie team could do with that line if they picked them up cheap enough to jumpright into production...


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/29 07:17:05


Post by: Dysartes


 oni wrote:
...and Epic 40,000. I would love to play this game again.


Epic 40,000 is an interesting choice - isn't it usually seen as the worst version of Epic, due to how abstract things became?


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/29 08:46:03


Post by: AndrewGPaul


It is, but most people are wrong.

It's a great game. Release it on its own as a set of regiment-level sci-fi rules and it's be well accepted. It's just that it removed all the details that 1st and 2nd edition Epic had. A good thing, in my opinion, but a lot of people like that.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/29 12:39:59


Post by: Commodus Leitdorf


I really wish GW would just release a reprint of the old Mordheim rules. AoS Skirmish is all well and good but a book just for collectors with all the compendium rules would be great. It would take all my effort to stop throwing my money at them.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/30 13:38:48


Post by: Zenithfleet


 AndrewGPaul wrote:


Heroquest is a game better remembered than played, I think. The worst aspect is that monsters only have 1 Body Point (even the Gargoyle) and there's only 1 evil Shield icon on the combat dice. Advanced Heroquest, on the other hand ...


Dammit AndrewGPaul... you've finally forced me to register on Dakka to rant about HeroQuest! SERIOUS BIZNIZ, I tell you.

I agree HeroQuest isn't much good for grown-up gamers, or even teens, but it was meant as a mass-market family game. At least, the UK/European version (there were two editions of it) with the 1-hit-point monsters. The North American edition seems to have upped the complexity and challenge a bit, and gone for a slightly older pre-D&D audience.

I've tried both versions in a highly scientific peer-reviewed manner (ahem) and found the following:

-If your players are old enough to work as a careful team (or you only have one player controlling all the Heroes), the North American version provides a better challenge.

-If your players are along the lines of "twelve-year-old and his nine-year-old brother and their mate from school and their mate's six-year-old cousin and Mum", the UK version is superior. The reason (IMO) is that the UK maps are balanced on the assumption that the heroes will all race off in different directions to beat their siblings and friends to the loot. Monsters with more than one Body Point would be too tough for a lone Hero to handle. Same with the traps. Easy to avoid if you work together, but if your motivation is to get to that treasure chest so you can buy the precious Crossbow card before your brother, you might just take the risk. (Note that the UK version allows you to attack other players or prevent them moving through your square, which IIRC the American one forbids.)

The most entertaining games of HeroQuest I ever played were the ones where the Wizard would be like "screw you guys, I'm going to walk through this wall and leave you to deal with the Zombies so I can snag the Spirit Bla--GARGOYLE!!!"

Also, 1BP for monsters requires zero bookkeeping--good for kids. One hit, one kill!

I do wish the UK version had multiple Body Points for boss monsters, though. They introduced that in the later expansions, so clearly they eventually came around to the same conclusion. Luckily the base game is so simple you can add whatever extra rules you like.

Anyway, HeroQuest is the game I'd most like to see return in its classic form, Gary Chalk art and all. It was THE gateway game in its day. I like that quote from (I think) John Stallard about having games of HeroQuest with people who would never, ever touch a miniatures game under any other circumstances. Gets my vote.



Re: Epic 40,000:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

It is, but most people are wrong.

It's a great game. Release it on its own as a set of regiment-level sci-fi rules and it's be well accepted. It's just that it removed all the details that 1st and 2nd edition Epic had. A good thing, in my opinion, but a lot of people like that.


I can attest to this, having come to Epic many years after that controversy had died down (more or less). Bought the starter box intending to use the minis for Epic Armageddon. Read the Epic 40K rulebooks. Thought "huh, this doesn't seem half as bad as I've heard". Tried it. Realised it was pretty much the same ruleset as Battlefleet Gothic (which didn't have the baggage of previous Epic editions to tarnish its appeal). Played it. Still playing it five years later. Is good.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/30 17:02:20


Post by: infinite_array




I still think it was a massive mistake that Catalyst didn't cash in on the MW:O popularity by getting permission to make miniatures of the new mech designs. They might have even gotten sales from the video game community that didn't play the tabletop game.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/30 22:51:35


Post by: thekingofkings




not sure battletech qualifies, it has the largest organized playgroup in my state and is still in print.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/31 01:58:11


Post by: Nevelon


 thekingofkings wrote:


not sure battletech qualifies, it has the largest organized playgroup in my state and is still in print.


I the modern version recognizable to those of use who played back in the 80s? I played from the start(ish) up until a bit after the clans returned. I think I have the second tech manual with their stuff. Took a break, experimented with the Click system, seemed mildly entertaining, but never caught on (not a fan of the collectable nature). I keep hearing the name batted about, but after the Click dud, I’ve never paid that much attention to it.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/31 02:22:35


Post by: -Loki-


 infinite_array wrote:


I still think it was a massive mistake that Catalyst didn't cash in on the MW:O popularity by getting permission to make miniatures of the new mech designs. They might have even gotten sales from the video game community that didn't play the tabletop game.


I've been so close to starting Battletech many times, and I'm always turned off by the awful miniatures. When I started playing MW:O, saw someone making lances out of MW:O mechas and asked how he got them. Some Russian guy was selling them based on the MW:O assets. I inquired but the prices were just too steep.

A shame, because when I saw those mechs as miniatures, wow. So close.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/05/31 10:55:50


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Zenithfleet wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:


Heroquest is a game better remembered than played, I think. The worst aspect is that monsters only have 1 Body Point (even the Gargoyle) and there's only 1 evil Shield icon on the combat dice. Advanced Heroquest, on the other hand ...


Dammit AndrewGPaul... you've finally forced me to register on Dakka to rant about HeroQuest! SERIOUS BIZNIZ, I tell you.


Good man.

I take your point about family playability (the original UK TV advert featured a load of kids who looked about 10; "Fire of Wrath" is one of those cathphrases that was compulsory in our games). From my point of view, I think I first played it after having played Advanced Heroquest, during a rainy summer holiday. The exploits of Grungni fimir-flattener, Legless the Elf and a Barbarian and wizard with forgettable names are legendary, although I, as Morcar spent a fortnight watching my minions get repeatedly butchered. Perhaps if we'd played Heroquest first, it would have been OK.

That's why I say it's best left as nostalgia - it [is a great game when you're a kid, but now that you're an adult, don't sully those memories by actually playing it again.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/06/01 13:32:33


Post by: Eilif


 thekingofkings wrote:


not sure battletech qualifies, it has the largest organized playgroup in my state and is still in print.


Battletech is a wierd one. It's never been anywhere where it was near as popular as the "big" games, but in some places it seems to have a truly enduring community, often supported by folks who have been playing for decades and usually at least one semi-official Catalyst games promoter. However, in others it's viewed with roughtly the same vintage/unplayed status as Rogue Trader or Starfleet Commander.

There's a reasonably active BT scene in the Chicago Suburbs.


What Out of Print/Out of Style miniature game do you think deserves a second look?  @ 2017/06/02 13:57:03


Post by: Easy E


I am always amazed at the wide array of people I run into who have played BT even if they have never played another wargame and seem to have little or no interest in other gaming.