https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

It's up. What do you guys think?

OP as usual

Too many "mortal wounds" there.

That should be hyper limited. If it's spammable easily basically all that rely on T and/or armour save will be in serious trouble as those ignore both. Hit and it's wound through.

Glaive looks nasty but remains to be seen does he get to use it. Killiness or lack of it has never been problem with h2h. Ability to actually get to use it has been. So far apart from rumoured can charge from transport(how? what drawbacks?) there's been scarily little help for that compared to new drawbacks.

Not a lot of info as per these preview faction articles.
Confirms army wide special rules, the Avatar should be a beatstick and unloved units ala scorps and banshees might be usable now.
Ho hum for me until we get the full details.

I do not like this article.

1. Mortal wounds are un-savable! Boom, Eldar can save them.

2. Charging unit strikes first! ...Unless you're charging Eldar! Which is insane because:

3. Eldar move much faster! which means they have a much easier time getting into position and controlling the fight.

*squees at mention of the Phoenix Lords getting re-costed and re-statted*

I literally do not care what else they do as long as the Phoenix Lords become the demigods of war they should be.

Hopefully all other units have been brought up to the Eldar level and they have not been increased in power even more than they are already.

Be a shame if they have not addressed known issues - they acknowledge Scat bikes in the post - but have they done anything to mitigate them? We they still be armour 3+ for no good reason for instance.

I guess this is where the tournament playtesters came in and hopefully pointed out and tried to fix the "Eldar issue" (if they were listened to)

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not like this article.

1. Mortal wounds are un-savable! Boom, Eldar can save them.

2. Charging unit strikes first! ...Unless you're charging Eldar! Which is insane because:

3. Eldar move much faster! which means they have a much easier time getting into position and controlling the fight.

AoS has mortal-wound ignoring mechanics through many armies, generally they are 5+ or 6+, I would expect much the same across the new 40k. For example, I could see the Sisters' Shield of Faith being a 6+ 'ignore mortal wound' roll. Deep breaths, this is not some fantastic new territory.

I laughed at the bit where the Avatar of Khaine would 'make Roboute Guilliman tread carefully' given that it already stomps him flat in the current edition thanks to him being completely unable to hurt it in melee.

It makes me look forward to have him explain all the other factions to us. However I also doubt if eldar become less broken now after reading this ; )

 Robin5t wrote:
I laughed at the bit where the Avatar of Khaine would 'make Roboute Guilliman tread carefully' given that it already stomps him flat in the current edition thanks to him being completely unable to hurt it in melee.

Well it doesn't "stomp him flat" because of Guilliman's insane defences.
"It slowly beats him to a pulp while laughing at his sword" would be more accurate

 Robin5t wrote:
I laughed at the bit where the Avatar of Khaine would 'make Roboute Guilliman tread carefully' given that it already stomps him flat in the current edition thanks to him being completely unable to hurt it in melee.

Eh, my interpretation is that strength D no longer uses the weapon's profile when inflicting wounds.

For instance, strength D doesn't benefit from armourbane, so why would it benefit from soul blaze.

Not enough information!

Also, Mortal Wounds... Only for Mortals it seems

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not like this article.

1. Mortal wounds are un-savable! Boom, Eldar can save them.

2. Charging unit strikes first! ...Unless you're charging Eldar! Which is insane because:

3. Eldar move much faster! which means they have a much easier time getting into position and controlling the fight.

1. Didn't article say just Avatar ignores them and Asurman has a (likely small/limited) bubble for it?
2. Didn't article say just Banshees ASF?
3. Didn't article say just Banshees are faster? Didn't the article only say re: Eldar as a whole that it maintains its mobility?

So generalize less, maybe?

Anyway, I'm kind of excited b/c i'm a prospective Eldar player (committed to buying a local guy's lot he's selling) who will probably go w/ a Biel-Tan theme. And the improved PL's are nice w/ my fluff.

not much info in that article. I'm more curios to see how Ynnari now fit into the system. I have small collections of Iyanden, harlequins, wych cult and some corsairs led by Yrilel......which made the Fracture of Biel Tan book look like it was written for my collection. I would like to add some more aspects though, I've had an idea how to do them for a long, long time.

 oldzoggy wrote:
It makes me look forward to have him explain all the other factions to us. However I also doubt if eldar become less broken now after reading this ; )

I met Reece like 7 years ago very briefly (he wouldn't remember me, but he's obviously big in the local community). Dude is very enthusiastic about 40k and actually really kind. I didn't read his AM article, but now may just to see how colorful his writing style is

These focuses have really not been worth more than skimming so far.

Mortal wound Mandiblasters that hit before anyone actually swings in the fight sounds like too much. That's the only thing that really bugs me.

Didn't all Phoenix Lords already have 2+ armor saves?

 Talamare wrote:
Not enough information!

Also, Mortal Wounds... Only for Mortals it seems

Nice. That was funny. Loved it.

Yeah, I think too many people are falsely calling cheese too early. The Eldar should be about disrupting your opponent's plans because they move about and strike faster than you. I just hope that the Eldar are a bit "squishier" than they currently are. I like the Harlequins because they're fast and hit hard, but they have practically no defensive ability. I hope to see Eldar more like THAT. These, so found, sound like that. Fast, hard-hitting, fast, but if you catch them they go pop. And hell yeah Banshees should go first. They got the Banshee Mask! Sounded like, outside the Banshees, not a lot of "go first" stuff here.

Didn't all Phoenix Lords already have 2+ armor saves?

Yup they did =/

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Didn't all Phoenix Lords already have 2+ armor saves?

Yep.

If all factions don't have some way of generating mortal wounds they will become bottom tier much like in AoS. That's a big part of the meta there.

So when all I see is mortal wounds and the ability to ignore them all I can think of is OP.

However that is probably a premature assessment. I hope.

 Yarium wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Not enough information!

Also, Mortal Wounds... Only for Mortals it seems

Nice. That was funny. Loved it.

Yeah, I think too many people are falsely calling cheese too early. The Eldar should be about disrupting your opponent's plans because they move about and strike faster than you. I just hope that the Eldar are a bit "squishier" than they currently are. I like the Harlequins because they're fast and hit hard, but they have practically no defensive ability. I hope to see Eldar more like THAT. These, so found, sound like that. Fast, hard-hitting, fast, but if you catch them they go pop. And hell yeah Banshees should go first. They got the Banshee Mask! Sounded like, outside the Banshees, not a lot of "go first" stuff here.

The thing is that eldar already have rule evading rules even before their codex is released.We can't know if they are OP, but its no good news for the balance in the game if a faction has an exception to most rules to start with : \

 oldzoggy wrote:
The thing is that eldar already have rule evading rules even before their codex is released, its not good news for the balance in the game if a faction has an exception to most rules to start with : \

Ehhh.... I don't think I agree. To me, this was a clear as day "some things are going to do this" from the moment I heard that charging units strike first. It's why, when that was spoiled, I said that I hope Harlequins and maybe Genestealers get this kind of rule, because that's "their thing". The fact that it's only on the Howling Banshees (as far as well know) kind of cements that as something they're willing to do when it's a unit's "special thing". Even for Harlequins (who are at LEAST Initiative 6, but often even initiative 7), they may only choose to give that rule to the Solitaire (who is Initiative 10). But there will certainly be more people who will have that rule.

As for the Mortal Wound ignoring thing? Someone already stated that this exists in AoS already, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it here to. The Avatar definitely seems like the kind of creature that might have that. If it can ignore Mortal Wounds some of the time, I bet we'll see that same thing on Necrons (at least the C'Tan and Monolith), Primarchs, and maybe Assassins (not sure what else).

Practically information-free, save for a few meaningless tidbits.

I'm not demanding GW spoil all of the rules and I don't care if they don't release any information at all. But why waste our time with these previews that are 99% worthless? Do people really like reading advertising? Baffling.

Yep, not really much of anything given away in that preview. It's odd that Striking Scorpions may be dealing an ultra-devastating attack with their mandiblasters (it was never "that" powerful).

Banshees striking first and moving fast...as they should.

Avatar should be powerful and pointed to represent that. Phoenix Lords should also be powerful. Maybe not Primarch powerful, but a very reasonable level. Overall, meh. Not much there to really inform players.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not like this article.

1. Mortal wounds are un-savable! Boom, Eldar can save them.

2. Charging unit strikes first! ...Unless you're charging Eldar! Which is insane because:

3. Eldar move much faster! which means they have a much easier time getting into position and controlling the fight.

Amen. I pretty fething sick of eldar and I PLAY THEM. Or well I splash into them since I still like friends.
I really hope this edition isn't geared to keep the same armies on top of the pile. I would have preferred "eldar have great rules ignoring stuff but now they cost appropriately and have rules to represent their dying race" and "scatbikes are still strong, in spite of the nerfs we needed to give them".

It is actually quite informative it tells the players that they can most likely build the army they really want to build without having to fear that it doesn't work.

tneva82 wrote:
Too many "mortal wounds" there.

That should be hyper limited. If it's spammable easily basically all that rely on T and/or armour save will be in serious trouble as those ignore both. Hit and it's wound through.

Glaive looks nasty but remains to be seen does he get to use it. Killiness or lack of it has never been problem with h2h. Ability to actually get to use it has been. So far apart from rumoured can charge from transport(how? what drawbacks?) there's been scarily little help for that compared to new drawbacks.

Well, in sigmar a faction focusses on mortal wounds... to be fair they are probably the most OP faction out there, but its balance-able.

You’ll also be happy to see multiple playstyles available to you. From infantry (and you all know I love my “Footdar” army!) to mechanised, to psyker heavy to totally psyker absent. You won’t feel shoehorned into a single build style but can exercise your creativity and field the army you desire.

They really are raising expectations here. I hope 8th ed can hold up to them.

Since Initiative is a thing of the past, and WS only applies to you (not your opponent hitting you), some Eldar have to have rules that bypass the norm. Banshees hitting first is very fluffy.....that's what the mask is for. They are mostly unarmoured and fragile.....they need speed and shock to kill their enemies, and the rule highlights that. Otherwise, you would need to drop the points substantially in comparison to a basic marine.
I also wonder how Harlequins will stack up, god knows they are as fragile as hell, but they had better be demons in assault as they should be.

I don't want OP Eldar, I want specialized, elite Eldar. You pay the points for being really good, but if you don't use them well, you get penalized for it. Banshees getting caught in open, etc.

 bullyboy wrote:
Since Initiative is a thing of the past, and WS only applies to you (not your opponent hitting you), some Eldar have to have rules that bypass the norm. Banshees hitting first is very fluffy.....that's what the mask is for. They are mostly unarmoured and fragile.....they need speed and shock to kill their enemies, and the rule highlights that. Otherwise, you would need to drop the points substantially in comparison to a basic marine.
I also wonder how Harlequins will stack up, god knows they are as fragile as hell, but they had better be demons in assault as they should be.

I don't want OP Eldar, I want specialized, elite Eldar. You pay the points for being really good, but if you don't use them well, you get penalized for it. Banshees getting caught in open, etc.

Yep exactly.
I am looking forwad to play an Aspect Warrior heavy army lead by an Avatar

nordsturmking wrote:

You’ll also be happy to see multiple playstyles available to you. From infantry (and you all know I love my “Footdar” army!) to mechanised, to psyker heavy to totally psyker absent. You won’t feel shoehorned into a single build style but can exercise your creativity and field the army you desire.

They really are raising expectations here. I hope 8th ed can hold up to them.

Reece is a great guy but now that he's been doing these news things I'm starting to feel wary.

He sounds like a salesman, and salesmen always exaggerate.

Yeah on I think 9th age was it Pablo? The guy with the fuzzy hair he said Reece tends to get too excited and overestimate tons of things.

The two of them greatly disagree on Kharadron Overlords tournament viability. Reece thinks they will be super powerful part of the main meta of factions and many others think they will be good but are over costed for a lot of stuff.

He also thought Genestealer cults would be super powerful. Also Deathwatch.

Yeah I don't take anything this guys says is powerful anymore seriously. He is a nice guy, but he is not very good at looking at things unbiased and the greater whole of the meta. I think only the most obviously bad of bad things do I ever recall him saying would not be viable. I think it was one of the chaos legion rules they got and like one other thing, but mostly his track record is 77% saying stuff will be good and super OP. He was right about Magnus being OP, but hey a broken clock is right twice a day.

 oldzoggy wrote:
It is actually quite informative it tells the players that they can most likely build the army they really want to build without having to fear that it doesn't work.

Based on...what? Marketing speech? GW has been claiming that for years.

They don't give any reasons why things work. Striking scorpions are great...why? They are killy? Lack of killiness has never been their problem.

Howling bansheesh? Not striking first hasn't been their problem. Okay so at least they are fast but again speedyness hasn't been their biggest problem either.

Howling Banshees are swift and athletic troops who are most deadly in hand-to-hand fighting. Their banshee masks contain psychosonic amplifiers that magnify their keening battle screams into mind-destroying shockwaves. While their foes lie crippled and paralysed, the Banshees lay into them with precision and efficiency, their power swords cutting a blazing arc through the air around them as they sever heads from necks and limbs from torsos.

Sounds familiar...

Wish GW didn't just hype strenght of cc weapons all the time in their h2h rocks hype. Weak attacks has never been problem. Now maybe if 7th ed scorpions had STR weapons they might have been super h2h but frankly even that would be ignored by most armies...

This article said "Guys, I want to assure you of two things. One, we know about Warp Spiders, Scatterbikes, and Wraithknights. Two, we're not dumb enough to fix them by stomping the entire Eldar codex flat, so eldar players can chill."

Just like the Guard and Chaos one said "Guys, we know Guard and Chaos are bad. We're working on it. Here's a few things we specifically know are bad, so you know they're on the radar."

Literally the biggest news we've had out of these faction articles is the fact that Rough Riders will still exist. I had a bit of a chuckle seeing their name as the only non-hyperlink on the page...

 bullyboy wrote:
Since Initiative is a thing of the past, and WS only applies to you (not your opponent hitting you), some Eldar have to have rules that bypass the norm. Banshees hitting first is very fluffy.....that's what the mask is for. They are mostly unarmoured and fragile.....they need speed and shock to kill their enemies, and the rule highlights that. Otherwise, you would need to drop the points substantially in comparison to a basic marine.
I also wonder how Harlequins will stack up, god knows they are as fragile as hell, but they had better be demons in assault as they should be.

I don't want OP Eldar, I want specialized, elite Eldar. You pay the points for being really good, but if you don't use them well, you get penalized for it. Banshees getting caught in open, etc.

Bashees are not unarmoured - they have a 4+ save, unarmoured - you are thinking about Wyches....Hopefully now those with decades of experience in the arena are better at hitting than say an Eldar Guardian

Oh man, the rules aren't even out yet and people are crying OP for Eldar. Looks like finding a game in 8th with my Biel Tan won't get any easier, lol.

Do people not think that Space Marines will get any special rules? They literally worded it that Guilliman still should have the upper hand on the Avatar.

I'm just glad with wave serpents being assault vehicles that melee eldar units will actually be plausible. I love Striking Scorpions.

Gw has a long history of making eldar way too effective for their cost.

I didn't see it mentioned, but the Rubric Marine shows Force Swords as AP -3. If that stays true for Power Swords, combined with Str3 not being so crappy in 8th, Banshees are looking really good.

I may have to pick up a box of DE Wyches to convert (cuz I'm not doin finecast)

 Galef wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned, but the Rubric Marine shows Force Swords as AP -3. If that stays true for Power Swords, combined with Str3 not being so crappy in 8th, Banshees are looking really good.

I may have to pick up a box of DE Wyches to convert (cuz I'm not doin finecast)

So, force swords > power swords. My *guess* is that the force psychic power is gone, and they're representing the extra potency with a d3. I am like 90% on this one.

 Marmatag wrote:

So, force swords > power swords. My *guess* is that the force psychic power is gone, and they're representing the extra potency with a d3. I am like 90% on this one.

I agree. I think "Force" is no longer a psychic power, but Force weapons will be exactly like their Power weapon equivalents, but be damage D3
This is great news for GKs. I'm really curious what Witchblades will do.

Even at 1 damage, having power swords that are S3 AP-3 counts as "not tea bag", in my book. Banshees may actually be able to get stuff done. Good, I want them to be good again.

Give me a reason to use the units that have been languishing. Give me a reason not to feel like a complete jackwagon when I pull out a unit of Warp Spiders, and not to feel like a complete dufus when I pull out a Fire Prism or a Wraithlord.

jade_angel wrote:
Even at 1 damage, having power swords that are S3 AP-3 counts as "not tea bag", in my book. Banshees may actually be able to get stuff done. Good, I want them to be good again.

Give me a reason to use the units that have been languishing. Give me a reason not to feel like a complete jackwagon when I pull out a unit of Warp Spiders, and not to feel like a complete dufus when I pull out a Fire Prism or a Wraithlord.

Hopefully banshees have something that makes them actually reach the combat then. Better weapons good but if you don\t make into combat having S20 weapon with very good AP and 2d6 damage isn\t much of a help.

That transport thing would be nice to know...That comes and biggest thing left to be seen is probably command points. But you could play smallish open style game with decent idea how it plays in practice.

 Galef wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

So, force swords > power swords. My *guess* is that the force psychic power is gone, and they're representing the extra potency with a d3. I am like 90% on this one.

I agree. I think "Force" is no longer a psychic power, but Force weapons will be exactly like their Power weapon equivalents, but be damage D3
This is great news for GKs. I'm really curious what Witchblades will do.

I am not the most experienced GK player, but being able to get instant death on high toughness models was pretty hot.

What GK will get, though, is a solid chance to strip wounds off of tanks and other vehicles.

If Nemesis Daemon Hammer is D6 wounds, that means each hit is a Lasgun, and each GK terminator with a Daemon Hammer will be swinging 3 times on the charge.

Just further reinforcing this is the melee edition, not the shooting edition.

 Marmatag wrote:
If Nemesis Daemon Hammer is D6 wounds, that means each hit is a Lasgun, and each GK terminator with a Daemon Hammer will be swinging 3 times on the charge.

Just further reinforcing this is the melee edition, not the shooting edition.

Of course lack of killing power has never been h2h\s problem...You could most h2h units in 7th ed STR>D weapons and they would still suck. Problem was always getting to combat which is why worthwhile units were generally stuff that moved at bike speed or better or was deathstar that was ridiculously invulnerable with stuff like rerollable 2+ saves, rerollable invulnerable saves, FNP's and invisibility or combo like that.

There are ultimately two possibilities:

Either Eldar will either be average or below average...

...or I will happily spend another edition refusing to play against people who play Eldar armies.

Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

 Galas wrote:
Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

 Traditio wrote:
There are ultimately two possibilities:

Either Eldar will either be average or below average...

...or I will happily spend another edition refusing to play against people who play Eldar armies.

Or a third possibility: Eldar are just as good in 8th as they are in 7th and you start having discussions with Eldar players to bring a balanced list rather than spam the same 3-4 power units.

In a game built for fun, you are supposed to be able to have those mature conversations with your opponent.
If the Eldar player refuses to slightly change up his list, he is TFG. But all out refusing to play them without even giving them the chance to play makes YOU TFG.

At any rate, I would be glad to see bikes, spiders and wraith stuff get nerfed. I am tired of the stigma. I didn't earn it, nor do I have to put up with it. I play bikes for fun and have never run all Scatterbikes in casual play, nor do even own more than 1 Spider unit.
in my local area I never once had issues getting games. This because I have built a reputation for being fun to play against and am always willing to discuss my list and make recommended changes prior to a game.

-

 oldzoggy wrote:
It is actually quite informative it tells the players that they can most likely build the army they really want to build without having to fear that it doesn't work.

GW regularly makes that claim. While it may be true on paper, different army builds are rarely of equal table-top viability.

tneva82 wrote:
Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

No, this remains an unsubstantiated rumour. Given how shooting has been buffed, I hope it is true as otherwise we might as well call 8th edition gun-hammer.

tneva82 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

I swear I had read it in some Warhammer Community post. But I can't find it now, so, just forget it. I suppose someone has mentioned that and I just have assumed it was official.

 Galas wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

I swear I had read it in some Warhammer Community post. But I can't find it now, so, just forget it. I suppose someone has mentioned that and I just have assumed it was official.

Ok well I think it\s fairly likely but there\s still several ways that could be done that affect how good it actually is. Which is why I hope they put out that teaser soon. I think they are holding that out just to make us twitch some more because they know how anticipiated that info is!

Galef wrote:Or a third possibility: Eldar are just as good in 8th as they are in 7th and you start having discussions with Eldar players to bring a balanced list rather than spam the same 3-4 power units.

In a game built for fun, you are supposed to be able to have those mature conversations with your opponent.

I think that this will ultimately be what determines whether or not 8th lives up to expectations.

"Mature conversations" about army building shouldn't have to occur.

GW has told us that they are doing extensive play-testing to ensure balance.

If they were successful, then I should be able to show up with my army, my opponent should be able to show up with his, and, assuming equal skill level, each of us should have a decent chance at winning.

I am inclined to think that this will happen, given that they are getting lots of input from TOs.

On the other hand: the simple fact is that Eldar have pretty much always been completely OP.

And it's not just the main game. From what I understand, the Dawn of War video games may as well be called "Dawn of Eldar."

Because for some reason, GW can't seem to bring themselves to make Eldar simply average.

At this rate, what I suspect will happen is that the vast majority of armies will basically be balanced, and Eldar will, as almost always, be completely OP.

Except, based on the article, it won't just be a few units. Everything in the codex will be ridiculously overpowered.

All of which would still result in a better state of affairs as far as balance goes than we have now.

Because then instead of having to have a "mature conversation," we'll be able to streamline the process:

"Are you playing eldar?"

"Yes."

"Can you play something else instead?"

"No."

"Is there anyone in the FLGS who isn't using eldar?"

"I'm using IG!"

"Great! Game on!"

There will always be units that are just a bit better than others, tuning isn't a precise art. The hope is that you can take the units you like without losing too much effectiveness. For instance taking a Deathwing army in 7th ed was an invitation for a butt kicking, hopefully, in 8th ed it can be a fun fluffy army that stands a decent chance.

Outside of that, I don't mind the Eldar having cool toys as long as they are appropriately priced, and the changes mentioned seem very fluffy, like striking scorpions mandible blasters being cool, and howling banshee's being fast to strike. I also haven't seen a phoenix lord on the table since third ed so it will be a treat. Guess I'll have to continue to wait to see a Necron faction focus.

I will say this, though:

Even if Eldar are completely OP, eldar players should have no difficulty getting games.

Simply proxy as DE.

The rules will be easily available.

Just to point somethings out here.

It's very likely mandiblasters is not a mortal wound per a model or if it's is it's on a 6+. More likely it's every unit within say 1" of a scorpion takes a mortal wound or d3. This also will be from a melee unit that has most likely s3/4 best case and has no ap. So instead of 10 s4 attacks you may get d3 mortal wounds it's not a huge amount.

Banshees going first sure they do t follow the normal rules same will probably go for Slanesh stuff some other aeldari mixes and other very fast things in this edition. It's not game breaking remember if they charge you they get that anyways so maybe don't charge units with bad saves in which is already what you should be doing as they are a dedicated combat unit.

And mortal wound saves exist all over aos such as the entire death faction gets a save if their general is alive. Every chaos warrior shield gives a save among many other things including basically every special character out there.

 Grimgold wrote:
There will always be units that are just a bit better than others, tuning isn't a precise art. The hope is that you can take the units you like without losing too much effectiveness. For instance taking a Deathwing army in 7th ed was an invitation for a butt kicking, hopefully, in 8th ed it can be a fun fluffy army that stands a decent chance.

Outside of that, I don't mind the Eldar having cool toys as long as they are appropriately priced, and the changes mentioned seem very fluffy, like striking scorpions mandible blasters being cool, and howling banshee's being fast to strike. I also haven't seen a phoenix lord on the table since third ed so it will be a treat. Guess I'll have to continue to wait to see a Necron faction focus.

The good thing about the new system is it should be easy to regularly update rules and points to adjust for anything playtesting missed (and I'm sure they missed something).

The charge thing was mentioned in the live Q&A I think.

 Traditio wrote:
There are ultimately two possibilities:

Either Eldar will either be average or below average...

...or I will happily spend another edition refusing to play against people who play Eldar armies.

this was actually a big reason I DID NOT want to play Eldar as I return to 8th (it was 4th out of 4 candidates on my list, but a distant 4th). I didn't want to be just another Sheepdar player. But I mean...dude was offering $900 of Eldar product for, fully painted (his own scheme) for $500. Who says know to that if they want to play Eldar???

But as others discussed above, I am willing - if not prefer - to not take netlists, spam lists, etc. I try to honor fluff as much as possible and my lists will all be mostly adherent to whatever Craftworld I decide to go with (if i even stay w/ Eldar).

 Traditio wrote:
I will say this, though:

Even if Eldar are completely OP, eldar players should have no difficulty getting games.

Simply proxy as DE.

The rules will be easily available.

Coincidentally, DE is actually my #1 desired faction. But see offer I couldn't refuse above... Perhaps I'll proxy.

I hope that adding scatter lasers to jetbikes costs as much as the bike or that the gun is needed to the ground. Own bikes and refuse to put a single scatter laser on any of them silly op nonsense.

 jeff white wrote:
I hope that adding scatter lasers to jetbikes costs as much as the bike or that the gun is needed to the ground. Own bikes and refuse to put a single scatter laser on any of them silly op nonsense.

But we don't know if Scatter lasers will be that good. We already know they'll likely wound T4 on 3+ (not 2+ as in 7th). We also know that HP stripping isn't a thing Scatters can do anymore, since everything has (plenty of) wounds and armour saves (that Scatters won't affect as they are likely AP 0)
It is also very likely that "Relentless" isn't a thing anymore and that means Bikes will have to choice to either stay still or suffer -1 to hit for the Scatter being Heavy
I am also hoping the Jump-shoot-jump and the 36" turboboost is gone. Make WIndrider have a 14-18" move and/or 2d6 Advance move at max.

All of those things should balance Scatterbike to an "acceptable" level. A points increase after that would just be egregious.
I am hoping that the weapon upgrades for bikes only increase the overall cost by 1/3. So a 20ppm bike could buy a Scatter laser or Shuricannon for 10ppm.
Also, lets hope for 4+ armour on WIndriders. That would further help nerf (but not over-nerf) them. It is also more fluffy

What would really be funny (in a bad way) is if the Scatter laser became crap on bikes, but the Shuricannon becomes the new "best weapon ever".

There is a rumour that Jink is +2 armour at the cost of -1 to hit. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Flying Terminators are the last thing Windriders need to be.

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Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:Perhaps I'll proxy.

I don't think it would be that difficult. Literally every vehicle you own counts as a raider. Literally every infantry you own counts as a kabalite warrior.

Pick an eldar HQ. Counts as a random dark eldar HQ.

Call it a day.

 jeff white wrote:
I hope that adding scatter lasers to jetbikes costs as much as the bike or that the gun is needed to the ground. Own bikes and refuse to put a single scatter laser on any of them silly op nonsense.

Remains to be seen for the matched play points but the power level points it's actually going to be free upgrade most likely.

I'd be happy if underutilized units become more viable. Jes Goodwin has designed so many great models, but it gets harder and harder to justify my dwindling painting free time for models that will rarely, if ever, get used. I had a Jain Zar model I painted in 1996 that I can count on one hand how many times I used that model.

And, I hope to see some new plastics when GW releases an Aeldari book. Warp Spiders are still from the early/mid 1990s.

People already crying cheese and we havn't even seen the points values yet lmao. They seem to be doing a decent job playtesting and listening to the community now and I would bet that the points will be increased across the board or they will die super easily.

 DO IT TO IT wrote:
Mortal wound Mandiblasters that hit before anyone actually swings in the fight sounds like too much. That's the only thing that really bugs me.

Makes no sense if you consider how mandiblasters have been treated in the past.
What we see now is the tip of an iceberg. I guess that there will be a lot more OP rules and units.

Mortal wound Mandiblasters that hit before anyone actually swings in the fight sounds like too much. That's the only thing that really bugs me.

Agreed, its nonsense. Mandis in the past were an annoyance at best, pretty useless at worst. Jacking them to this level is beyond strange. Unless its something like d3 mortal wounds per unit or somesuch.

If it's anything like the various AoS units that do similar things, it'll be something like "roll a d6 for each unit engaged in combat with this unit. On a 4+, that unit suffers a mortal wound. If the Exarch is alive, deal d3 mortal wounds instead."

That would be useful for whittling through strong defenses, but isn't going to mulch hordes or wreck knights.

Agreed.

 wuestenfux wrote:

What we see now is the tip of an iceberg. I guess that there will be a lot more OP rules and units.

Agreed. But in a way, I am excited for this. if everything is OP, nothing actually is.

Lets take a look as 2 of the units we have seen so far: the Dreadnought and Rubric Marines. It isn't a stretch now to think that Bolter armed Rubrics can take out a Dread, which was not possible before.
Now they will wound on 5+ and only allow the Dread to make 5+ saves.
Likewise, the durability of the Dread actually went up a bit against high str weapons. Do to having 8 wounds, a single Lascannon can no longer 1-shot a Dread.

Overall, I think this lower end weapons have been brought up significantly, while the durability of other units has also been brought up. We cannot assume that a change that would be OP in 7th will be OP in 8th. So a unit causing a few Mortal Wounds in melee can't really be compared to rolling D-weapons, for example.

Currently, Mandiblasters cause a single automatic hit per Scorpion that wounds on 4+. In 8th, it is likely only 1 per Scorpion and it may just be a str3 hit, so it will only cause a Mortal Wound on a 5+ or 6.
Considering that's only an average of 1-2 wounds per unit of 5 or so AND that this edition will have TONS of wounds, I'd hardly consider that OP.

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Personally, I don't mind Eldar units getting Always Strike First. They're supposed to be fast, it makes sense.

What will annoy me is if the same isn't also applied to Dark Eldar. Especially since they're supposed to be more melee-focused than regular Eldar.

 vipoid wrote:
Personally, I don't mind Eldar units getting Always Strike First. They're supposed to be fast, it makes sense.

What will annoy me is if the same isn't also applied to Dark Eldar. Especially since they're supposed to be more melee-focused than regular Eldar.

well, to be fair, the article just stated Banshees have ASF. Perhaps they give it as a faction-wide rule for DE (especially since they have no Psykers?).

It would be nice if the True Kin stopped feeling like the poor relative to CWE in terms of ability. I feel that DE were seen as less elite and more towards the horde end of the spectrum by GW.

(Not an actual horde army.)

My impression of Dark Eldar was that we were supposed to be even more fragile than CWE but commensurately faster in return. That was true to an extent but when I gave up 40k a couple of years ago there were Marine units zipping about being just as fast.

The Ynnari are another factor. GW have listed them as a distinct faction. That could mean they get dedicated models. Which definitely takes up release slots and *may* poach abilities from their Eldar cousins.

Worse, new, fresh mechanics may end up being given to the Ynnari over DE or CWE.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
well, to be fair, the article just stated Banshees have ASF. Perhaps they give it as a faction-wide rule for DE (especially since they have no Psykers?).

It's possible that DE will get ASF as a faction-wide rule, but the history of 40k is not on our side.

Typically, Eldar get all the power and cool special rules, whilst DE get to eat gak.

 vipoid wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
well, to be fair, the article just stated Banshees have ASF. Perhaps they give it as a faction-wide rule for DE (especially since they have no Psykers?).

It's possible that DE will get ASF as a faction-wide rule, but the history of 40k is not on our side.

Typically, Eldar get all the power and cool special rules, whilst DE get to eat gak.

WHFB backs this to some degree. ASF was the High Elf trick for several editions while the Dark Elves didn't get it and left their great weapons behind as a result.

Banshees are a good candidate for ASF - but Eldar are no faster than many other species such as Genestealers.

Dark Eldar are a better candidate as they actually live lives on the edge filled with violence, but they keep boosting Eldar - see Guardians being as skilled in combat as Elite versions of the Wyches FFS

 Mr Morden wrote:
Banshees are a good candidate for ASF - but Eldar are no faster than many other species such as Genestealers.

Dark Eldar are a better candidate as they actually live lives on the edge filled with violence, but they keep boosting Eldar - see Guardians being as skilled in combat as Elite versions of the Wyches FFS

See, this is why you don't delete the Initiative stat to replace it with special rules. I know people find numbers scary but if you reduce Initiative to a binary ASF stat you have to start asking "Wait, why is (unit X) fast enough to have a 1 instead of a 0 but (unit Y) isn't?".

 Mr Morden wrote:
Banshees are a good candidate for ASF - but Eldar are no faster than many other species such as Genestealers.

But they are faster than gaunts, guardsman, SMs, Skitarii etc.

Where do you draw the line exactly?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Dark Eldar are a better candidate as they actually live lives on the edge filled with violence, but they keep boosting Eldar - see Guardians being as skilled in combat as Elite versions of the Wyches FFS

Yeah, I'm certainly not optimistic about DE getting good things in 8th.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
WHFB backs this to some degree. ASF was the High Elf trick for several editions while the Dark Elves didn't get it and left their great weapons behind as a result.

It might be worth noting that both Dark Elves and (IIRC) Wood Elves did get ASF in 8th edition. And then all 3 elf races lost it in Age of Sigmar.

With that in mind, I'd be very surprised if Age of 40k gave any race ASF as an army-wide rule. Hell, I'd be surprised if a single DE unit got ASF.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
See, this is why you don't delete the Initiative stat to replace it with special rules. I know people find numbers scary but if you reduce Initiative to a binary ASF stat you have to start asking "Wait, why is (unit X) fast enough to have a 1 instead of a 0 but (unit Y) isn't?".

Agreed. The removal of initiative is one of the things I find most off-putting about 9th so far.

The thing is, even if you think speed is a good replacement, the inclusion of Bikes, Jump Packs and the like make it pointless. What's the use in an Archon having his speed represented by an extra inch or so of movement over a Space Marine, when a SM Captain with a Thunderhammer can just take a bike and be faster than both?

It seems like any melee unit that relied on high initiative will either need a slew of special rules to compensate or else will just end up being garbage.

I am torn as I have been wanting to start Eldar, but I don't want to be lumped into all the cheesedar players (especially since I didn't want to spam bikes, although I do really love how the Wraith units look).

I'm looking forward to 8th letting me field a proper balanced craftworld army, with some Dire Avengers, some Scorpions/Dragons/Banshees, some guardians, some wraiths, etc.

Wayniac wrote:
I am torn as I have been wanting to start Eldar, but I don't want to be lumped into all the cheesedar players (especially since I didn't want to spam bikes, although I do really love how the Wraith units look).

I'm looking forward to 8th letting me field a proper balanced craftworld army, with some Dire Avengers, some Scorpions/Dragons/Banshees, some guardians, some wraiths, etc.

Believe it or not Traditio and Martel are a noisy vocal minority on the Internet. Most real people aren't going to condemn you the instant you tell them which Codex you're using.

It's when the twenty Scatterbikes/two Wraithknights come out of the bag that the cheesedar-lumping begins.

banshees with ASF is a given, but not other CWE. Harlequins are in a strange position as they should be hitting first too, but don't know if they'll get it. DE could get the rule as a easy sub for Combat Drugs, but not sure. I seriously doubt that it will be an army-wide rule, that would be wrong.

 bullyboy wrote:
banshees with ASF is a given, but not other CWE. Harlequins are in a strange position as they should be hitting first too, but don't know if they'll get it. DE could get the rule as a easy sub for Combat Drugs, but not sure. I seriously doubt that it will be an army-wide rule, that would be wrong.

I would expect Harlequins to have a hit penalty and DE would have ASF on some units. I doubt anyone will have army wide ASF. It was pretty hated in Fantasy with Elves from what I remember.

 bullyboy wrote:
banshees with ASF is a given, but not other CWE. Harlequins are in a strange position as they should be hitting first too, but don't know if they'll get it. DE could get the rule as a easy sub for Combat Drugs, but not sure. I seriously doubt that it will be an army-wide rule, that would be wrong.

...Kind of funny considering that Banshees are I5 and Harlequins are I6 right now...

pm713 wrote:
I doubt anyone will have army wide ASF. It was pretty hated in Fantasy with Elves from what I remember.

I think the issue in Fantasy was that Fantasy already had an Initiative stat.

They could have just given Elves high initiative values, but instead chose to give them their own special rule.

Amongst other things, this created a weird disconnect as to what Initiative was supposed to represent, as you'd have elves supposedly being so fast that they struck first against everything, and yet only having I5.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
banshees with ASF is a given, but not other CWE. Harlequins are in a strange position as they should be hitting first too, but don't know if they'll get it. DE could get the rule as a easy sub for Combat Drugs, but not sure. I seriously doubt that it will be an army-wide rule, that would be wrong.

...Kind of funny considering that Banshees are I5 and Harlequins are I6 right now...

Probably more to do with their masks. The ones that make Harlequins I1.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I doubt anyone will have army wide ASF. It was pretty hated in Fantasy with Elves from what I remember.

I think the issue in Fantasy was that Fantasy already had an Initiative stat.

They could have just given Elves high initiative values, but instead chose to give them their own special rule.

Amongst other things, this created a weird disconnect as to what Initiative was supposed to represent, as you'd have elves supposedly being so fast that they struck first against everything, and yet only having I5.

Or the fact that the rule was broken. I think that was the worse part. I still doubt something viewed that badly would be brought back.

Or the fact that the rule was broken. I think that was the worse part. I still doubt something viewed that badly would be brought back.

It was broken because it worked with any weapon.. Swordmasters were a pain as a result.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I am torn as I have been wanting to start Eldar, but I don't want to be lumped into all the cheesedar players (especially since I didn't want to spam bikes, although I do really love how the Wraith units look).

I'm looking forward to 8th letting me field a proper balanced craftworld army, with some Dire Avengers, some Scorpions/Dragons/Banshees, some guardians, some wraiths, etc.

Believe it or not Traditio and Martel are a noisy vocal minority on the Internet. Most real people aren't going to condemn you the instant you tell them which Codex you're using.

It's when the twenty Scatterbikes/two Wraithknights come out of the bag that the cheesedar-lumping begins.

I don't condemn the player, I condemn GW.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Or the fact that the rule was broken. I think that was the worse part. I still doubt something viewed that badly would be brought back.

It was broken because it worked with any weapon.. Swordmasters were a pain as a result.

Well the fact it gave Elves rerolls to hit against so many armies was the problem. Followed by largely negating the downside of great weapons.At least that was my experience.

pm713 wrote:
Well the fact it gave Elves rerolls to hit against so many armies was the problem. Followed by largely negating the downside of great weapons.At least that was my experience.

Pretty much.
- It let Elves strike first against models/units with higher initiative values.
- Against units with lower or equal initiative values (which was most of them) it was also Hatred +1, as it gave them rerolls every turn.
- It let them ignore the downside of Great Weapons, as well as cancelling any other effect that would normally slow them.

For an army-wide special rule it was pretty insane.

 vipoid wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Well the fact it gave Elves rerolls to hit against so many armies was the problem. Followed by largely negating the downside of great weapons.At least that was my experience.

Pretty much.
- It let Elves strike first against models/units with higher initiative values.
- Against units with lower or equal initiative values (which was most of them) it was also Hatred +1, as it gave them rerolls every turn.
- It let them ignore the downside of Great Weapons, as well as cancelling any other effect that would normally slow them.

For an army-wide special rule it was pretty insane.

Good old Fantasy balance. So very very many losses (mainly because I was bad).

Yeah and that wasn't the only universal rule of any elven army.

Banshees always striking first makes sense because of the Mask.
But I can see arguments for DE Wyches and Harlies getting different rules.
Wyches should get more evasion-type rues. Dodge should be -1/2 to hit AND a 4++ in melee or something like that. Going first would be nice, but they don't have any kind of wargear to reinforce that idea.
Harlies are different because they do have special wargear that could provide ASF. But the Flip Belt makes sense as a movement bonus, the Holo-field as a ++ save and their masks should cause Fear (which would be awesome if that causes -2 Morale)

But aside from Banshees, Wyches and Harlies, I really don't see any other Aeldari units merit having ASF.
Daemonettes apparently also have this rule.

On a DE side note, I wonder if Trueborn or Bloodbrdies are still going to be palyable. They currently do not have their own unique models and are part of the Kabalite/Wych datasheets. If GW did not include them in 8th, they wouldn't technically be lying when they said all units currently fieldable will be so in 8th
You can still filed them, just as Kabalite/Wyches. If they do this, hopefully they'll add a few extra weapon options per unit to bridge that gap.

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 Galef wrote:
Banshees always striking first makes sense because of the Mask.

DE striking first makes sense because of their speed/reflexes.

 Galef wrote:

Wyches should get more evasion-type rues. Dodge should be -1/2 to hit AND a 4++ in melee or something like that.

In other words, they'll stay confined to the shelf.

 Galef wrote:
Going first would be nice, but they don't have any kind of wargear to reinforce that idea.

Why do they need wargear? They're supposed to be incredibly fast and agile. Why must they stand around picking their noses while the enemy leisurely smashes them to paste?

8th edition is reintroducing the M stat. Aeldari in general are likely to have high M, with DE having probably 1-2" more than their CW cousins. That is how GW will likely represent that "speed and reflexes".
DE will likely go first often because they'll make charges more often then their foes. I am not saying this is adequate, I'm just saying that's probably what GW will do. I'd like to be wrong.

One thing I would really like for Wyches to get is for all wyches to have "wych weapons" like they used to. This weapons should have at least AP -1 if not AP -2. Wyches are supposed to be adapt at sticking those knives in the weak parts of an enemy's armour after all. Combine this with a better kind of Dodge save (better that just 4++ in melee) and they wouldn't need to have ASF to be a good unit. ASF at this point would make them broken.

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Yeah, I'd prefer some actual hitting power on witches compared to ASF.

Probably some negatives to hit, an invuln, and some rend and really scary weapons and my dream wych army might come to fruition.