this thread is for all the faithful, who serve the righteous and almighty Inquisition. Several units that were part of the Inquisitional formation (Imperial agents) are know part of the Ministorum (Sisters of Battle). In respect to the new Index book, the Inquisition is limited to following units
- Inquisitor Greyfax
- Inquisitor Karamazov
- Inquisitor Coteaz
- Inquisitor (ordo XXX)
- Inquisitor in terminator armor
- Acolytes
- Deamonhost
- Jokaero
- ALL imperial transports
But they removed the ability to make a unit out of different models. My converted henchman unit of Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders is just gone, together with my even more painstakingly converted Land Raider! Just gone!
The jokaeros do take one slot per model, and the only good targets for their abilities and honestly, themselves, and possibly Karamazov. So if you take jokaeros, take them in at least pairs to buff themselves.
Agusto wrote: But they removed the ability to make a unit out of different models. My converted henchman unit of Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders is just gone, together with my even more painstakingly converted Land Raider! Just gone!
The inquisition can use every transport from the imperium. The thing that bugs me the most is the loss of storm shields on acolytes. Now I've got 12 acolytes that I can't use anymore
The breaking apart the henchmen bodyguard really does hurt, those crusaders did a splended job keeping my DCA alive to butcher terminators. No my DCA have to ride in SoB transports and get shot to pieces by bolters.
Nope, they can't use any transport. They can EMBARK upon any transport. My Inquisitor and her (old) inducted IG-regiment does not have access to Land Raiders. So if I want that, I have to ally in even more than before. Not to mention that my Inquisitor was also a radical (actually a fully fledged Slaanesh worshiper to be honest) who used to summon daemonettes... Now that is gone as well.
I also agree about the DCA/Crusader/Priest combo... Now we just have Acolytes. What is the point of a close combat Inq if she/he has no back up. I am not very likely to play an entire unit of either DCA:s or Crusaders, am I?
I really fail to see what the Inquisition will bring to the table in 8th. Or how they even will fit into new detachment system. Does this mean that I have to "get" a Vanguard Detachment and buy three seperate one-man units of Acolytes simply in order to not loose command points?
Agusto wrote: Nope, they can't use any transport. They can EMBARK upon any transport. My Inquisitor and her (old) inducted IG-regiment does not have access to Land Raiders.
Exactly, when I first started playing INQ, it was 4th ed, I could put my henchmen in a land raider, why did I lose access to my landraider!
I already posted this to the main rumour thread, but I'll repost it here as well:
Well feth, inquisitors no longer can get power armour or hellrifles... That's all my inquisitor models invalidated then...
I hate when they completely remove options. It sucks if thing you liked to use get nerfed and is not as good as it used to be, but it sucks way more if you just simply cannot use your models any more. Aren't there several official models of inquisitors in power armour, why it is not included?
I am still trying to figure out the whole "faction" thing from the rulebook. If I have understood the wording correctly, as long as they are "Imperium", I can happily mix... say an Inquisitor, a Commisar Lord and a Primaris Psyker in a Supreme Command Detachment. Right?
Agusto wrote: I am still trying to figure out the whole "faction" thing from the rulebook. If I have understood the wording correctly, as long as they are "Imperium", I can happily mix... say an Inquisitor, a Commisar Lord and a Primaris Psyker in a Supreme Command Detachment. Right?
I just realised that the inquisitor weapon options are even more terrible than I though. You need to replace the chainsword for ranged weapon, so any combination of (non-pistol) ranged weapon and melee weapon is illegal...
Agusto wrote: I am just visioning an army consisting of 187 units of 1 single Acolyte as 187 Auxiliary Support Detachments in a 1500p game.
if playing matchplay, you are limited to 3 detachments at 1500pts.
You can use Vanguard detachments and field one inquisitor for every 6 Acolyte units.
Nobody has mentioned that Acolytes have 3 Wounds each for only 8 points per model, and their Look Out Sir is great because you can use your inquisitor's armor save first. So a unit of 6 Acolytes very effectively adds about 15 wounds to your Inquisitor for 48 points, plus bolters!
tournaments will set their own limits, but I expect 2000 to be more popular.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm thinking for my inquisition detachment:
1-2 inquisitors
4-5 crusaders (probably boltguns, shotguns, or chainswords)
4-5 acolytes
1 Ministorum rhino so the crusaders can ride in it
Well, even more wargear and options are gone this time around, and all my conversions are now illegal/invalid. We don't even get power armour anymore. We've had access to power armour for over 20 years.
Inquisitors themselves suck, the toys are gone, and everything is so limited.
I think it's time to just put the Inquisition stuff away for now.
While the loss of several loadout options suck, I think that the Inquisition really lends itself as HQ options for a mixed force detachment at the moment. Meaning that you should use them in combination with any other Imperium army to fill out a detachment for them and since they can effectively ride any vehicle (the HQ and the acolytes atleast) you can put them with pretty much every imperial army.
They have become more of an alternative HQ choice for imperium armies then a standalone army. Even more so then in the last editions.
Arlen wrote: While the loss of several loadout options suck, I think that the Inquisition really lends itself as HQ options for a mixed force detachment at the moment. Meaning that you should use them in combination with any other Imperium army to fill out a detachment for them and since they can effectively ride any vehicle (the HQ and the acolytes atleast) you can put them with pretty much every imperial army.
They have become more of an alternative HQ choice for imperium armies then a standalone army. Even more so then in the last editions.
But can i take for example Inquisitor Greyfax as one of my HQ choices in a Bigrade detachment while the rest of the units are from Astra Militarum. Is the "Imperium" keyword sufficient?
But can i take for example Inquisitor Greyfax as one of my HQ choices in a Bigrade detachment while the rest of the units are from Astra Militarum. Is the "Imperium" keyword sufficient?
Arlen wrote: While the loss of several loadout options suck, I think that the Inquisition really lends itself as HQ options for a mixed force detachment at the moment. Meaning that you should use them in combination with any other Imperium army to fill out a detachment for them and since they can effectively ride any vehicle (the HQ and the acolytes atleast) you can put them with pretty much every imperial army.
They have become more of an alternative HQ choice for imperium armies then a standalone army. Even more so then in the last editions.
But can i take for example Inquisitor Greyfax as one of my HQ choices in a Bigrade detachment while the rest of the units are from Astra Militarum. Is the "Imperium" keyword sufficient?
Yup that is all you need for a detachment. The rules state that when everything has to be from one faction that this implies that this could mean Imperium or any subfaction.
The big difference is that a lot of vehicles and buffs say stuff like, you may only put Adeptus Astartes in this vehicle or buffs all nearby Astra Militarum models, so if you mix a lot of subfactions from one big faction they they might not have great synergy,
since their benefits only work for their subfaction and not for the main one like Imperium.
.
The cool part of the new Inquisition is that the inquisitors and acolytes can embark on any Imperium Vehicle, so you can put them in droppods, valkyries, chimera and what not, as long as it is a Imperium transport vehicle.
They also add a leadership buff aura that works on all friendly Imperium units, have good psychic powers and bring a very cheap 3 wound model unit to the table.
Have you guys already considered putting two units of 5 acolytes with storm bolters in a droppod? That is 10pt per acolyte in a 103 pt vehicle that delivers them within 12'' of an enemy unit. Meaning that for 203pt or so, you got two deepstriking units of 15 wounds each and 20 shots each right were you want them.
Arlen wrote: While the loss of several loadout options suck, I think that the Inquisition really lends itself as HQ options for a mixed force detachment at the moment. Meaning that you should use them in combination with any other Imperium army to fill out a detachment for them and since they can effectively ride any vehicle (the HQ and the acolytes atleast) you can put them with pretty much every imperial army.
They have become more of an alternative HQ choice for imperium armies then a standalone army. Even more so then in the last editions.
But can i take for example Inquisitor Greyfax as one of my HQ choices in a Bigrade detachment while the rest of the units are from Astra Militarum. Is the "Imperium" keyword sufficient?
Yup that is all you need for a detachment. The rules state that when everything has to be from one faction that this implies that this could mean Imperium or any subfaction.
The big difference is that a lot of vehicles and buffs say stuff like, you may only put Adeptus Astartes in this vehicle or buffs all nearby Astra Militarum models, so if you mix a lot of subfactions from one big faction they they might not have great synergy,
since their benefits only work for their subfaction and not for the main one like Imperium.
.
The cool part of the new Inquisition is that the inquisitors and acolytes can embark on any Imperium Vehicle, so you can put them in droppods, valkyries, chimera and what not, as long as it is a Imperium transport vehicle.
They also add a leadership buff aura that works on all friendly Imperium units, have good psychic powers and bring a very cheap 3 wound model unit to the table.
Have you guys already considered putting two units of 5 acolytes with storm bolters in a droppod? That is 10pt per acolyte in a 103 pt vehicle that delivers them within 12'' of an enemy unit. Meaning that for 203pt or so, you got two deepstriking units of 15 wounds each and 20 shots each right were you want them.
yes....YES! omg. 6 acolytes, all with plasma in a droppod and give them the ordo hereticus keyword. I play against many chaos players, so i can reroll failed hit and wound rolls. jeeez that hurts. If i understand the character rule right, Inquisitors can join the acolytes in the droppod as well
I've been playing around with some ideas and come up with a list as follows, based on an inquisitor requisitioning stuff from everywhere. Fits into a battalion for 9 Command Points. The inquisitor and acolytes without hotshots ride in the land raider, 2 units of hotshot acolytes ride in each Razorback, the Crusaders and priest ride the immolator.
HQ Ordo Xenos Inquisitor 61 Pts
Force Sword
Needle Pistol
Troops
3 Acolytes with Hotshots 36
3 Acolytes with Hotshots 36
Razorback with Twin Assault Cannon 100
3 Acolytes with Hotshots 36
3 Acolytes with Hotshots 36
Razorback with Twin Assault Cannon 100
4 Acolytes with needle pistol and power maul 56
3 Acolytes 24
Elites
Cybernetica Datasmith 52
4 Crusaders 60
Ministorum Priest Power Maul and Bolt Pistol 39
Immolator, Twin Heavy Bolter 85
Fast Attack
3 Deathwing Bikers with Power Swords 120
Scout Sentinel with Multilaser and Chainsaw 47
Scout Sentinel with Multilaser and Chainsaw 47
Heavy Support
2 Kastellan Robots with 3 Heavy Phsophor Blasters 220
2 Kastellan Robots with 3 Heavy Phsophor Blasters 220
Land Raider Crusader 287
Flyers
Stormtalon with Twin Assault Cannon and Skyhammer 169
Stormtalon with Twin Assault Cannon and Skyhammer 169
If you want to take the fluffy route, Tempestus Scions are now troops, making an Inquisition-only themed army possible (though the faction keywords don't match beyond the "Imperium" one).
so they are! I managed to totally miss that. OK looks like it needs to be moved around to fit into other detachments. Will have to swap some stuff for 1 more HQ I guess. Can drop the Sentinels to start. Switch the Datasmith to a Tech Priest Dominus. Hmm. I can then fit this in... 2 Vanguard detachments. Drops to 5 CP, but I still think it should be fun.
Is it just me, or do acolytes look really trolltastic? I mean, 3 wounds per model for just 8 points looks really good. They seem like they can soak an inordinate amount of firepower before going down. Granted, their weapon options aren't great, but I would think they would make a really annoying distraction unit. If a smallish squad of them (maybe 5 or 6) charges a Space Marine tactical squad, they will lock that squad down for a turn, as they will have to fall back out of combat. The acolytes won't lose too many models if each one has 3 wounds. I'm just spitballing here, but acolytes, especially if supported by a Jokaero, look like they could be useful for, well, something.
Their weapon options are actually pretty good I think.
For 12 points they get hotshot lasguns, S3 Rapid Fire AP -2 is quite nice on 3 wound models. 3/27 shots kills a marine, whilst the bolters firing in return do 8/27 wounds. This means that on average to kill a marine they need 9 shots. In return bolter marines need 10 shots to kill an acolyte, so it's fairly even without buffs. They also perform much better against terminators and similar hard targets than marines do thanks to the AP and for a similar points cost.
If you kit them out for combat with, say, power mauls and needle pistols they are 14 points with one pistol shot that wounds on a 2+ and 2 S5 Ap-1 attacks. For about the same price as a marine and now they wound Wriath Knights and Imperial Knights on 5s!
Also, they can take Razorbacks and Immolators as transports. Both of which are solid.
Just running with that to the extreme you can get 10 squads with a 50/50 mix of assault (in Immolators) and shooty (in Razorbakcs) and 2 inquisitors with force swords for 2000pts. thats 60 S6 AP -1 shots per turn from the Razorbacks and 10 Multimelta shots from the immolators. Then you have the Acolytey goodness inside. Is this the best list? No, but it's not terrible either and the units seem to have a lot of viable uses.
Drager wrote: Their weapon options are actually pretty good I think.
For 12 points they get hotshot lasguns, S3 Rapid Fire AP -2 is quite nice on 3 wound models. 3/27 shots kills a marine, whilst the bolters firing in return do 8/27 wounds. This means that on average to kill a marine they need 9 shots. In return bolter marines need 10 shots to kill an acolyte, so it's fairly even without buffs. They also perform much better against terminators and similar hard targets than marines do thanks to the AP and for a similar points cost.
If you kit them out for combat with, say, power mauls and needle pistols they are 14 points with one pistol shot that wounds on a 2+ and 2 S5 Ap-1 attacks. For about the same price as a marine and now they wound Wriath Knights and Imperial Knights on 5s!
Also, they can take Razorbacks and Immolators as transports. Both of which are solid.
Hotshot Lasguns was what I had in mind as far as weapons. I've got 6 old-school Imperial Guard Stormtroopers that I was planning to use as Acolytes, and that's the weapons they have. Maybe grav-chute them in from a Valkyrie or something. Valkyries themselves look solid, especially with the hellstrike missiles. Hellstrike missiles and a Lascannon would make a good, if expensive, anti-armor loadout, so after you drop the troops you can go tank-hunting with the flyer.
I have a whole inquisition force (Ordo Xenos) that I used to partner with my Eldar (heretical Ordo Xenos, obvs). Sadly that ability is gone, but the force itself now fits in 2k. I have a whole bunch of converted Imperial Guard from a range of different regiments (some forgeworld, some standard) with hotshots. I also have about 6 Warhammer Priest models that I used to use as Ministorum Priests. Might make them Acolytes instead, not sure.
Valkyries look nice. Stormraven is pretty nice too. Landraiders are fine now. I think my Ordo Land Raider Crusader may be getting more play. Inquisition is the only Imperial faction I like. I have a bunch of things from other factions, but all painted black with (where available) the forgewrold Inquisition replacement parts and such. Or at the very least nice big I iconography everywhere.
thatssoeffingcool wrote: Can we still get acroflagelents in our units? i feel like they cut away over half our stuff when they said the units would all still be useable.
arcoflagelents are Ministorium units now. You can take them in any "Imperium" detachment, but there's no synergy with "Inquisition" units except sharing the Inquisitor's leadership.
I do think I'll pack a Sisters Rhino with some crusaders, acolytes, and Inquisitor.
I have 3 servitors with plasma cannons that are now stuck with space marines. Why oh why are the priest in the Astra Ministrotum and Astra Militarum units and not the crusdaers/DCA/Arcos. They strip them away from the INQ bodyguard and basically gave them 0 buffs from other sources.
I think something along the lines of a inquisitor withaybe a maul tops in a rhino with 3 acolytes and 5 acro flagellents and maybe a jokero or a 6th acro would be incredibly strong. you can upgrade an acoloyte but i dont think you need to. just an incredibly effective and hard hitting unit. even just a miniatorum priest giving them all +1 atk. the acros would be on 3d3 attacks each. So if the acolytes keep them alive they will monster through some people.
Automatically Appended Next Post: or you dont even need that what about 3 units of 3 accolytes with meltas or plasmas in a drop pod with a jokero or SM captain. its expensive but drop down and demolish a key target then they are 18 wounds to plow through. its expensive but effective
Never played 40k but planning to start playing when 8th drops.
So if what i say is totally wrong apologies in advance.
Seems to me you can take a vanguard detachment with 2 5-man squads and 1 4-man squad of acolytes with storm bolters.
3 5-man squads of acolytes with power mauls and bolt pistols.
Coteaz or another inquisitor.
Put them in 3 taurox primes with 2x autocannons and a taurox gattling cannon.
And have a very decent amount of anti infantry for about 750p.
Coteaz and the melee acolytes can put a dent in most things in melee with 30 S5 AP-1 and 4 S6 AP-3 D3 attacks.
While the Ranged acolytes and the Tauroxes put out 116 S4 and 12 S7 AP-1 shots in Rapid fire range.
And the acolytes can take wounds for Coteaz on a 2+.
thatssoeffingcool wrote: Can we still get acroflagelents in our units? i feel like they cut away over half our stuff when they said the units would all still be useable.
arcoflagelents are Ministorium units now. You can take them in any "Imperium" detachment, but there's no synergy with "Inquisition" units except sharing the Inquisitor's leadership.
I do think I'll pack a Sisters Rhino with some crusaders, acolytes, and Inquisitor.
I dont know i might still do acolytes instead of crusaders. i think 3 wounds is more valuable than a 3 invuln but thats just because my rolls are always garbage.
I've been thinking about running 2 or 3 units of acolytes with storm bolters as screen for the rest of my army (SM). Storm Bolters got buffed and 10 points a model is great.
Drager wrote: The priest doesn't boost the inquisitor or acolytes and the jokaero can't mount the transport.
Jokaero can't use ANY transport, near as I can tell. Making them nigh useless unless you want a fairly static firebase. >.<
Take a single Grey Knight unit of anything (maybe Interceptors since they're cheap and mobile) and use Gate of Infinity on the Jokaero. Best solution I can think of.
I'm looking at rebuilding the old Witch Hunters army from back in the day. Filling the requirements for a Brigade, the following comes in right around 2000. It is far from optimized, but it reflects the models I've got or could easily build. Eventually I'd like to do the hazardous environment Cadians from Forge World to go all plasma on the Scions. Basically I fill my Troops with Scions, my Fast and Heavy with Sisters, and my HQ and Elites with assorted buffs. Fluffwise it's Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (I'll use Inquisitor models as Primes) backed by fast movers and heavy hitters from the Adepta Sororitas.
Tactically: The Dominions scout up the middle to melt something shiny. The Exos, HB Rets, Imagifier, and Canoness hold the back line and use all the Acts of Faith for extra shooting phases. The Scions and Primes drop and exploit special weapons and orders. Celestine and friends go character hunting. The Priest+ Acolytes in a Chimera form a cheap mobile harassment unit that can both swamp the enemy with wounds and force quite a few saves.
HQ: Celestine, 2 Gemina
HQ: Canoness
HQ: Tempestor Prime w/Rod
HQ: Tempestor Prime w/Rod
HQ: Tempestor Prime w/Rod
I'm loving what I'm seeing so far, like, I'm super stoked to get my inquisition forces back on the battlefield for the first time since 6th ed.
So it seems like a bit of a push/pull mechanic at play in 8th ed is the benefits and drawbacks to using a lot or a few units. Lots of units = lots of precious re-rolls. Few units = go first.
Inquisition might be THE best faction for giving you lots of units without making you deploy many. An inquisitor, 3 acolytes and a transport either pads the heck out of your brigade detachment if that's what you're going for or single handedly gives you a vanguard detachment and it's essentially ONE unit you have to deploy. Rad.
Also let's not ignore how awesome running someone like Coteaz with acolytes will be. If your opponent even tries to attack him every time he fails his 2+ save you just direct the wound to one of your acolytes. If you opponent focuses on the acolytes, well they actually take a decent pounding for their cost and Coteaz will be swinging away the entire time. Make your acolytes the ordo that will guarantee them re-rolls vs your opponent. Fire those plasmas at high strength every time.
I'm probably going to be running my coteaz in his inquisitorial chimera with a single acolyte to man the lasgun array, a couple of crusaders for melee backup, and 8 more acolytes with plasmas or combi plasmas and maybe one or two bolters to soak wounds.
I feel like Acolytes with Storm Bolters are the way to go. They are dirt cheap, and but out a ton of fire now. I don't want to make them too expensive by getting overpriced plasma (It's actually fairly priced, but AM get them for 7pts a piece).
Yes, on average, a unit of six acolytes effectively adds 18 Wounds to nearby inquisitors for only 48 points. I don't think any other unit has Wounds so cheap. I'm thinking Storm bolters and Chainswords for most, but maybe some plasma for Coteaz. Or maybe flamers? Depends on their role.
The Taurox prime with a 20 shot gatling gun is a nice little dakka boat, but the only units that can ride inside of it are storm troopers that already have deep strike and no need of a transport or acolytes.
I think one can even be purchased without any storm troopers.
The one big weakness of acolytes is that 48 to 60 point drops will increase the drop count too much. The only way to negate that is by sticking 120 points of them in a transport.
schadenfreude wrote: The Taurox prime with a 20 shot gatling gun is a nice little dakka boat, but the only units that can ride inside of it are storm troopers that already have deep strike and no need of a transport or acolytes.
I think one can even be purchased without any storm troopers.
The one big weakness of acolytes is that 48 to 60 point drops will increase the drop count too much. The only way to negate that is by sticking 120 points of them in a transport.
I thought about this as well, perhaps grabbing a Valkyrie would work, since you can drop off units of 3 acolytes as it moves using gravchutes. This could be effective for taking objectives. You can take 3 elite choices of acolytes for 90pts (to cover your brigade requirements.
Don't forget guys, these are plasmas with built in re-rolls, which is WAY more important for plasma than any other weapon. That's worth paying the extra two points over some scrubby AM guy who you'd need to use command points or some kind of HQ dude with an aura to give a re-roll to.
Acolytes are awesome and I can't wait to start catching opponents totally off-guard with them!
Do legit like the idea of using a few with chainswords and storm bolters just to act as ablative wounds though.
I am still so sad that Inquisitors lost their own Land Raiders :( Yes, we could always take an allied Space Marine one, but it doesn't feel right! I guess this one will spend a lot of time on the shelf in 8th.
ps: If anyone wonders why there is a pinup girl lounging on the Frag Launchers, the answer is that my entire army are (not so) secret Slaanesh worshipers.
jim300 wrote: Is there anybody who are considering Karamazov? I can't find any reason to take him.
I've debated him. The big thing about him I see as potentially very useful is that he has a cheap and long range multimelta on a fairly survivable platform.
Rezyn wrote: Why cant jokero ride in transports? what am I missing?
all transports have rules that say they can only transport models from their own faction. Inquisitors and acolytes get around this with the "authority of the inquisition" rule that lets them ride any imperial transport. Jokaero and daemonhosts don't have this rule for some reason.
It seems rediculous acolytes have 3 wounds.. I mean seriously how does a t3 human have more wounds than a freaking space marine. lol
I honestly can't tell if it's a misprint or if it's supposed to be a "power of unshakeable faith" thing. If their faith drives them to fight on even after being horribly maimed, why do they still have ld7? They gladly throw themselves in front of their inquisitors to shield them from bullets, they don't bat an eyelash when you blow them up twice in a row, but they're still just as likely to run away as a guardsman.
Even if it turned out to be a misprint they'd be pretty useful at 1 wound. Since my all-deep-strike grey knight army doesn't work in 8th edition, I'll probably take some of these for the necessary boots on the ground.
jim300 wrote: Is there anybody who are considering Karamazov? I can't find any reason to take him.
I've debated him. The big thing about him I see as potentially very useful is that he has a cheap and long range multimelta on a fairly survivable platform.
He has long-range melta, but he is slow. He has only 5' movement. I can't think it will make some big diffrence he should shoot it 4+ if he moved. And cheap...? 150pt...? for 1 multi-melta...? really...?
It seems rediculous acolytes have 3 wounds.. I mean seriously how does a t3 human have more wounds than a freaking space marine. lol
I honestly can't tell if it's a misprint or if it's supposed to be a "power of unshakeable faith" thing. If their faith drives them to fight on even after being horribly maimed, why do they still have ld7? They gladly throw themselves in front of their inquisitors to shield them from bullets, they don't bat an eyelash when you blow them up twice in a row, but they're still just as likely to run away as a guardsman.
Even if it turned out to be a misprint they'd be pretty useful at 1 wound. Since my all-deep-strike grey knight army doesn't work in 8th edition, I'll probably take some of these for the necessary boots on the ground.
Because after they took away all the flavour and wargear options because they don't have any models that come with any wargear and GW hates conversions, they realized that they needed to give them something, so they just slapped three wounds on them and called it a day.
It seems rediculous acolytes have 3 wounds.. I mean seriously how does a t3 human have more wounds than a freaking space marine. lol
I honestly can't tell if it's a misprint or if it's supposed to be a "power of unshakeable faith" thing. If their faith drives them to fight on even after being horribly maimed, why do they still have ld7? They gladly throw themselves in front of their inquisitors to shield them from bullets, they don't bat an eyelash when you blow them up twice in a row, but they're still just as likely to run away as a guardsman.
Even if it turned out to be a misprint they'd be pretty useful at 1 wound. Since my all-deep-strike grey knight army doesn't work in 8th edition, I'll probably take some of these for the necessary boots on the ground.
Because after they took away all the flavour and wargear options because they don't have any models that come with any wargear and GW hates conversions, they realized that they needed to give them something, so they just slapped three wounds on them and called it a day.
Dan Abnett's Inquisitorial henchmen are all kinds of awesome. I don't think extra wounds is a terrible fit.
jim300 wrote: Is there anybody who are considering Karamazov? I can't find any reason to take him.
I've debated him. The big thing about him I see as potentially very useful is that he has a cheap and long range multimelta on a fairly survivable platform.
He has long-range melta, but he is slow. He has only 5' movement. I can't think it will make some big diffrence he should shoot it 4+ if he moved. And cheap...? 150pt...? for 1 multi-melta...? really...?
What? It's Assault. Not only does he not shoot at 4+ after moving, but he can Advance and Shoot. If he Advances and Shoots THEN he gets -1, but then he moved 5+1D6", not 5.
The mulimelta is cheap because you're not paying 150 just for it. You're also getting T5, S5, 8W and a mini-Culexus aura. The mulimelta is basically free when you factor in the cost of the rest of his platform
jim300 wrote: Is there anybody who are considering Karamazov? I can't find any reason to take him.
I've debated him. The big thing about him I see as potentially very useful is that he has a cheap and long range multimelta on a fairly survivable platform.
He has long-range melta, but he is slow. He has only 5' movement. I can't think it will make some big diffrence he should shoot it 4+ if he moved. And cheap...? 150pt...? for 1 multi-melta...? really...?
What? It's Assault. Not only does he not shoot at 4+ after moving, but he can Advance and Shoot. If he Advances and Shoots THEN he gets -1, but then he moved 5+1D6", not 5.
The mulimelta is cheap because you're not paying 150 just for it. You're also getting T5, S5, 8W and a mini-Culexus aura. The mulimelta is basically free when you factor in the cost of the rest of his platform
I still have so many Inquisitor moedles to paint (even FW ones), but I will purchase him one day as well. Probably just for the look.
Does someone have tactics with the named Inquisitos?
The three named inquisitors seem pretty unremarkable to me. They are not bad, but do not provide as much synergy as most other army's HQ choices, especially Greyfax and Karamazov. Coteaz can cast two powers a turn, which makes him stand out some in my opinion, and the powers are fairly decent, and flexible in that the Mental Fortitude power can be cast on any Imperium unit, and the other two are cast on the enemy. His Spy Network is cool, but probably only worth taking him for is you have footslogging plasma acolytes around...which i don't think i ever would. Additionally, all three of the named inquisitors also give their LD10 to everyone around them, which is actually really good, especially for the lower Ld, non-space marine armies. Generally though, if you want to take them for fluff reasons, I do not think they are bad, but I don't see any other reason to take them.
The basic Inquisitors seem pretty decent to me. They are cheap, give a Ld9 aura, cast cast powers, and are pretty decent in close combat. All around I actually like them as a cheap HQ and to Ld buff the acolytes etc. I don't think smite spam is a great idea, but if you wanted to they might not be bad for it.
Acolytes seem good for the obvious reason: they have 3 wounds and are super cheap. Storm Bolters seem like the best choice to me, since they out preform hotshot lasguns, and everything else costs too much for BS4, with flamers possibly being a 2nd option in my mind, but still very expensive. I see taking 3-6 acolytes with storm bolters as a good option in lists were you want cheap anti-infantry. I see them particularly good in vehicle spam lists like Razorback and Toaurox spam lists to either side inside, or to act as screens for the vehicles as needed. I suppose it would be possible to make a list with footslogging acolytes with inquisitors to keep their Ld up and cast smite and whatnot, but i don't see that option being that great.
Demonhost seem...okay, but i dont like how random their stuff is. They seem like a "take these for fun" sort of unit.
Jokaero seem okay if you have footslogging acolytes to buff...but otherwise not so much.
So in general, i think the basic use of the Inquisition is to provide cheap psykers, Ld buffs, and durable bodies in other Imperium armies. Could you run a pure Inquisition army? Maybe...especially if you throw in vehicles from other armies (which I guess isn't pure) but probably not with a ton of success as it seems fairly one dimensional.
Maximumbob wrote: Isn't there and inquisitorial land raider promethius for inquisition armies?
Yes, and it's awesome! It's expensive, but fires off 24 heavy bolter shots a turn, has Quarry, ignores enemy cover, and if your Warlord is inside (which means it would have to be an INQ model, since it only transports <ordo> infantry), one strategem per turn is -1 CP to use, to a minimum of 1. That's really brutal, letting you use Counter-Offensive for 1 point, or auto-passing morale.
Even if it turned out to be a misprint they'd be pretty useful at 1 wound.....
For 8 points... 3W is quite OP, 2W would be good, 1W would be rubbish (since we would be paying double for an AM infantryman).
So what if it is a misprint and they actually have just 2W, like mini-Inquisitors (what they actually are).??
At 2W why would you take them? when I can take 3 AM conscripts at 9 and with the conscripts get much larger squads and squads that benefit from character buffs and synergise much better (easily +2 attacks each plus leadership immunity(lose 1 guy only).
Per squad you'll also get equivalent wounds 50W conscripts 150pts vs 3 acolyte squads 144pts 54 wounds. (If they were at 2 wound this would be only 36)
+ acolytes are vulnerable to multi damage weapons where as conscripts are happy to take a lascannon for the team
Arguably AM conscripts work out much better (although much higher model/£count.)
Acolytes don't benefit from character buffs except from the inquisitors and leadership buff is largely unnecessary in such small squads. Can only be fielded in tiny squads which are not bad at min spec but quickly become very expensive if you add some better guns to them. They no longer have access to the power Armour they had access to before and since the monkeys no longer combo to give them effective terminator Armour (Power armour +1save, 5++) thats a big loss. + no storm shields
It should also be pointed out that acolytes cant even get there own transports without taking allies which means you are taking allies which now have no synergy (and since the acolytes are stealing the transports your allies better not want them).
Inquisitors have 3W so what if they are trainee Inquisitors and have 3 wounds makes sense to me.
Seems balanced given their significant drawbacks at 3w they are a worthwhile choice at 2 you would not see them (in a good army.
At 2W why would you take them? when I can take 3 AM conscripts at 9 and with the conscripts get much larger squads and squads that benefit from character buffs and synergise much better (easily +2 attacks each plus leadership immunity(lose 1 guy only).
You also have to buy a commissar to get the leadership immunity. Not very expensive, but what if the commissar dies?
It should also be pointed out that acolytes cant even get there own transports without taking allies which means you are taking allies which now have no synergy (and since the acolytes are stealing the transports your allies better not want them).
I can't find any rule that says you need a squad with all-matching faction keywords in order to take a transport. Using this transport is a different matter. According to the FOC you technically could take a marine squad or character, then buy a chimera for him. The marines couldn't ride in it because they aren't part of <REGIMENT> but acolytes don't have to worry about that. So as far as I can tell you can just grab any transport with the Imperium keyword, whether you have any other allies from that subfaction or not.
I'm not saying acolytes are unfair, they just seem self-contradictory from a fluff perspective. Insanely self-sacrificing and fanatical, yet they have the morale of a guardsman. Part of the points cost is the quarry rule, 2 attacks, the ability to ride in any imperial transport, the ability to bubble-wrap inquisitors (even against assassins, psykers and cc) and the unusually flexible wargear options.
Inquisition is clearly not designed to be used without allies in any case. You'd only be able to run vanguard detachments.
Real News wrote: Insanely self-sacrificing and fanatical, yet they have the morale of a guardsman.
I dunno, seems to fit the fluff well. Insanely self-sacrificing and fanatical... towards the Inquisitor. They get Ld9 when within range of the Inquisitor. If they leave sight of the inquisitor they lose that self-sacrificing and fanatical nature and begin fighting for themselves... for a chance to get back to the Inquisitor.
jim300 wrote: Is there anybody who are considering Karamazov? I can't find any reason to take him.
I've debated him. The big thing about him I see as potentially very useful is that he has a cheap and long range multimelta on a fairly survivable platform.
He has long-range melta, but he is slow. He has only 5' movement. I can't think it will make some big diffrence he should shoot it 4+ if he moved. And cheap...? 150pt...? for 1 multi-melta...? really...?
What? It's Assault. Not only does he not shoot at 4+ after moving, but he can Advance and Shoot. If he Advances and Shoots THEN he gets -1, but then he moved 5+1D6", not 5.
The mulimelta is cheap because you're not paying 150 just for it. You're also getting T5, S5, 8W and a mini-Culexus aura. The mulimelta is basically free when you factor in the cost of the rest of his platform
I still have so many Inquisitor moedles to paint (even FW ones), but I will purchase him one day as well. Probably just for the look.
Does someone have tactics with the named Inquisitos?
So Greyfax is actually really good for her point cost. At 85 points, she gets you two deny the witches as opposed to the regular 1. Her weapons are master-crafted. Unlike a normal Inquisitor she has a non-pistol ranged weapon and a melee weapon and she can target Characters who are Psykers or Daemons.
I'd say she'd work well in an Inquisition band with Callidus and Vindicare Assassins. Your power to just delete enemy characters off the map should be pretty spectacular.
At 2W why would you take them? when I can take 3 AM conscripts at 9 and with the conscripts get much larger squads and squads that benefit from character buffs and synergise much better (easily +2 attacks each plus leadership immunity(lose 1 guy only).
You also have to buy a commissar to get the leadership immunity. Not very expensive, but what if the commissar dies?
It should also be pointed out that acolytes cant even get there own transports without taking allies which means you are taking allies which now have no synergy (and since the acolytes are stealing the transports your allies better not want them).
I can't find any rule that says you need a squad with all-matching faction keywords in order to take a transport. Using this transport is a different matter. According to the FOC you technically could take a marine squad or character, then buy a chimera for him. The marines couldn't ride in it because they aren't part of <REGIMENT> but acolytes don't have to worry about that. So as far as I can tell you can just grab any transport with the Imperium keyword, whether you have any other allies from that subfaction or not.
I'm not saying acolytes are unfair, they just seem self-contradictory from a fluff perspective. Insanely self-sacrificing and fanatical, yet they have the morale of a guardsman. Part of the points cost is the quarry rule, 2 attacks, the ability to ride in any imperial transport, the ability to bubble-wrap inquisitors (even against assassins, psykers and cc) and the unusually flexible wargear options.
Inquisition is clearly not designed to be used without allies in any case. You'd only be able to run vanguard detachments.
I'm not that keen on the inquisitors myself now that there's no daemonblade/hellrifle/rad grenade. Most of the time primaris psyker is just as good at a cheaper price. SInce acolytes can't bubble wrap any other character it's an ability that might as well do nothing.
If I take acolytes it will be mixed in a single foc with other imperium units what I meant was since the foc only gets one transport for every other unit if your useing them for the acolytes units you then don't have slots for your troop choices to take them as well
I'm not that keen on the inquisitors myself now that there's no daemonblade/hellrifle/rad grenade. Most of the time primaris psyker is just as good at a cheaper price. SInce acolytes can't bubble wrap any other character it's an ability that might as well do nothing.
If I take acolytes it will be mixed in a single foc with other imperium units what I meant was since the foc only gets one transport for every other unit if your useing them for the acolytes units you then don't have slots for your troop choices to take them as well
It's not "every other choice", it's "each other choice". Meaning each unit that is not a dedicated transport. You can literally take one transport for every unit in your army if you have the points.
But yeah, there's no reason to use acolytes if you're not using an inquisitor. That would be cheesy anyway.
Well there is always the I need a cheap way of filling out my elite choices in a brigade so I have pts to spend on what I want to run which could help some elite builds.
Or in competitive who cares about cheese its about what's strong and they seem to fulfill a troop based role but in an elite slot.
3 one 1 acolyte squads or even 3 6 man squads are cheap compared to alternatives
Way too big of a list to post here, but I compiled all the non-LOW transports that we have access to, along with their point costs for a few different equipment load outs.
We actually have access to a ton of transports that I wouldn't have otherwise considered, such as the Landspeeder Storm with heavy flamer loaded up with 5 flamer toting acolytes. Drop pods are also something I hadn't previously considered.
The land speeder storm is a really cool option. Acolytes can have way more firepower than the scouts it's intended for, and cost less. This is especially good news as I've got a land speeder storm with no crew, since I used them for something else. I feel a conversion coming on.
Someone said earlier that there's no point putting scions in a transport, as they can just deep strike. This is wrong, as their range means they can't deep strike and rapid fire. 10 hot shot scions are cheaper than hot shot acolytes, have better bs, and can be ordered to have rapid fire 2. I know there's a lot of chat about plasma scion command squads (and rightly so!) but the ability to spit out 40 shots with -2 ap is also interesting.
So yeah - acolytes in a storm - scions in something else.
Best not to put acolytes in a drop pod though. For the same price you could have a 10 man gk strike squad - who can deep strike already. Loads of stuff can deep strike without help, making pods largely pointless.
One potential trick is to make one of the special inquisitors your warlord, give them +1ld, then have some gks with them. The inquisitor can terrify something and then the gks can purge its soul. Lots of mortal wounds.
The one reason it might be fun to put Acolytes in a pod (to me) is because each Acolyte can take a plasma weapon. You can also take multiple units in a pod I believe. Fill that thing up with plasma, drop it and watch a heavy weapon burn.
Audustum wrote: The one reason it might be fun to put Acolytes in a pod (to me) is because each Acolyte can take a plasma weapon. You can also take multiple units in a pod I believe. Fill that thing up with plasma, drop it and watch a heavy weapon burn.
Yeah but this is just the kind of thing I'm talking about. Plasma scion command squads are so ridiculously cheap in comparison. 168 buys two units of 4, plus a guy who can order both units to reroll 1s to hit.
I agree it could be fun, and it's a cool image. I just don't think it's all that efficient, relative to other options.
Audustum wrote: The one reason it might be fun to put Acolytes in a pod (to me) is because each Acolyte can take a plasma weapon. You can also take multiple units in a pod I believe. Fill that thing up with plasma, drop it and watch a heavy weapon burn.
Yeah but this is just the kind of thing I'm talking about. Plasma scion command squads are so ridiculously cheap in comparison. 168 buys two units of 4, plus a guy who can order both units to reroll 1s to hit.
I agree it could be fun, and it's a cool image. I just don't think it's all that efficient, relative to other options.
Oh yeah, if we're gonna bring in allies than sure. Sadly, besides the odd Inquisitor there's really no reason to take any Inquisition.
Audustum wrote: The one reason it might be fun to put Acolytes in a pod (to me) is because each Acolyte can take a plasma weapon. You can also take multiple units in a pod I believe. Fill that thing up with plasma, drop it and watch a heavy weapon burn.
Yeah but this is just the kind of thing I'm talking about. Plasma scion command squads are so ridiculously cheap in comparison. 168 buys two units of 4, plus a guy who can order both units to reroll 1s to hit.
I agree it could be fun, and it's a cool image. I just don't think it's all that efficient, relative to other options.
Oh yeah, if we're gonna bring in allies than sure. Sadly, besides the odd Inquisitor there's really no reason to take any Inquisition.
I'm not too sure about that, Acolytes can take 6 flamers and cruise around in an immolator, lets see Tempestus dish out 8D6 auto hits, not to mention sitting on 18 wounds.
Audustum wrote: The one reason it might be fun to put Acolytes in a pod (to me) is because each Acolyte can take a plasma weapon. You can also take multiple units in a pod I believe. Fill that thing up with plasma, drop it and watch a heavy weapon burn.
Yeah but this is just the kind of thing I'm talking about. Plasma scion command squads are so ridiculously cheap in comparison. 168 buys two units of 4, plus a guy who can order both units to reroll 1s to hit.
I agree it could be fun, and it's a cool image. I just don't think it's all that efficient, relative to other options.
Oh yeah, if we're gonna bring in allies than sure. Sadly, besides the odd Inquisitor there's really no reason to take any Inquisition.
I'm not saying there's no point in inquisition stuff. But it does have to earn its place in a list. I think storm bolter acolytes are decent, especially against their quarry. Greyfax and Cotaez both seem useful and either might benefit from melee-equipped acolytes to babysit them.
As for allies, you've got options for how you want the fluff to work. First, you just say your inquisitor waved his/her rosette around and brought whoever they wanted along. Alternatively you could convert stuff, paint =I= on it a lot, and just say that it's an inquisitorial land raider - or whatever.
Is is a pain that stuff like death cult assassins lack the ability to get in every transport, but on the other hand sisters rhinos and repressors are decent - so it's not a total loss.
Maximumbob wrote: Isn't there and inquisitorial land raider promethius for inquisition armies?
Yes, and it's awesome! It's expensive, but fires off 24 heavy bolter shots a turn, has Quarry, ignores enemy cover, and if your Warlord is inside (which means it would have to be an INQ model, since it only transports <ordo> infantry), one strategem per turn is -1 CP to use, to a minimum of 1. That's really brutal, letting you use Counter-Offensive for 1 point, or auto-passing morale.
Maximumbob wrote: Isn't there and inquisitorial land raider promethius for inquisition armies?
Yes, and it's awesome! It's expensive, but fires off 24 heavy bolter shots a turn, has Quarry, ignores enemy cover, and if your Warlord is inside (which means it would have to be an INQ model, since it only transports <ordo> infantry), one strategem per turn is -1 CP to use, to a minimum of 1. That's really brutal, letting you use Counter-Offensive for 1 point, or auto-passing morale.
RabbitMaster wrote: He sure got my attention now =)
24 heavy bolter shots is quite nice, with reroll hit and wound it becomes scary !
And slap your warlord in there to do insane bravery and counter offensive for only 1 CP... I really am liking it a lot, I've had the FW bits to make it for years now, maybe I'll finally get around to making one.
I don't see why you wouldn't just use Scions over anything in the Inquisition section. If you understand the fluff of the Inquisition and the Scions then it makes perfect sense for them to be the backbone of an army.
Acolytes just seem god-awful compared to a lot of units. 12 pts for a BS 4+ Hot Shot lasgun when a Scion is 10pts for BS 3+, better armor and the ability to deploy anywhere.
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
The Inquisition maintains a number of fortresses throughout the galaxy, both secret and known to the inhabitants of the Imperium. The Inquisitorial Storm Troopers have the duty to protect and provide security to these fortresses and the Inquisitorial Black Ships, they can also be called upon to assist an Inquisitor on active assignment. They are recruited from the Schola Progenium as well as certain families with a tradition of service to the Inquisition. Their training and equipment is equal to the Scions and Storm Troopers found throughout the Imperial Guard, furthermore they undergo rigorous purity and incorruptibility tests prior to their induction.
Agusto wrote: I am still so sad that Inquisitors lost their own Land Raiders :( Yes, we could always take an allied Space Marine one, but it doesn't feel right! I guess this one will spend a lot of time on the shelf in 8th.
ps: If anyone wonders why there is a pinup girl lounging on the Frag Launchers, the answer is that my entire army are (not so) secret Slaanesh worshipers.
You Agusto, your mobile cottage is awesome, and look considering Inquisitors have to jack ANY transport they use from another faction (case in point, my lovingly converted inquisitorial chimera that has been serving me for three editions is now an astra militarum chim), you better keep using this thing in games son!
Kirasu wrote: I don't see why you wouldn't just use Scions over anything in the Inquisition section. If you understand the fluff of the Inquisition and the Scions then it makes perfect sense for them to be the backbone of an army.
Acolytes just seem god-awful compared to a lot of units. 12 pts for a BS 4+ Hot Shot lasgun when a Scion is 10pts for BS 3+, better armor and the ability to deploy anywhere.
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
The Inquisition maintains a number of fortresses throughout the galaxy, both secret and known to the inhabitants of the Imperium. The Inquisitorial Storm Troopers have the duty to protect and provide security to these fortresses and the Inquisitorial Black Ships, they can also be called upon to assist an Inquisitor on active assignment. They are recruited from the Schola Progenium as well as certain families with a tradition of service to the Inquisition. Their training and equipment is equal to the Scions and Storm Troopers found throughout the Imperial Guard, furthermore they undergo rigorous purity and incorruptibility tests prior to their induction.
With acolytes you're paying for 3 wounds and 2 attacks, they're basically mini characters. Totally feel free to use Scions, I will be as my INQ storm troopers, but I'll also be using my Acolytes as resilient flamer platforms.
Kirasu wrote: I don't see why you wouldn't just use Scions over anything in the Inquisition section. If you understand the fluff of the Inquisition and the Scions then it makes perfect sense for them to be the backbone of an army.
Acolytes just seem god-awful compared to a lot of units. 12 pts for a BS 4+ Hot Shot lasgun when a Scion is 10pts for BS 3+, better armor and the ability to deploy anywhere.
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
The Inquisition maintains a number of fortresses throughout the galaxy, both secret and known to the inhabitants of the Imperium. The Inquisitorial Storm Troopers have the duty to protect and provide security to these fortresses and the Inquisitorial Black Ships, they can also be called upon to assist an Inquisitor on active assignment. They are recruited from the Schola Progenium as well as certain families with a tradition of service to the Inquisition. Their training and equipment is equal to the Scions and Storm Troopers found throughout the Imperial Guard, furthermore they undergo rigorous purity and incorruptibility tests prior to their induction.
Having your inquisitor lead a bunch of 'tempestus scions' and counting them as inquisitorial storm troopers makes all the sense in the world.
Comparing them to acolytes though, just in terms of stats on paper, 3 wounds, 2 attacks, rerolls to hit, able to hop in ANY transport, plasma and storm bolters up the wazooo, shoot, I'd take that over one better armor and BS and deep strike almost 100% of the time.
Acolytes are only 10p with storm bolters, which are just plain better than hot-shot lasguns unless you get within 9" and use FRFSRF. The problem with a scion at the same price is he can't deep strike close enough to rapid-fire his hotshot gun. So deep-striking scions are best used to deliver plasma and melta. For example, drop a command squad with 4 plasma and a tempestor prime, supercharge your 8 shots and use orders to reroll 1s.
Or you could use a valkyrie to drop off a bunch of lasgun scions and move them within 9", and send an inquisitor and some acolytes along with them to tie up units in cc so the scions don't get killed right away.
Acolytes are more like a cheap source of storm bolters and ablative armor for an inquisitor. Inquisitors seem like more of a flavor unit than an optimal one at this point, but the way the Imperium is set up now you could say the same thing about all space marines. Why bother with marines when you can field conscript blobs? So you can just cherry pick the best things from every imperial subfaction, or you can go with some kind of theme.
minionboy wrote: Way too big of a list to post here, but I compiled all the non-LOW transports that we have access to, along with their point costs for a few different equipment load outs.
We actually have access to a ton of transports that I wouldn't have otherwise considered, such as the Landspeeder Storm with heavy flamer loaded up with 5 flamer toting acolytes. Drop pods are also something I hadn't previously considered.
Sadly the land speeder storm can only transport units with the Scout Infantry keyword.
minionboy wrote: Way too big of a list to post here, but I compiled all the non-LOW transports that we have access to, along with their point costs for a few different equipment load outs.
We actually have access to a ton of transports that I wouldn't have otherwise considered, such as the Landspeeder Storm with heavy flamer loaded up with 5 flamer toting acolytes. Drop pods are also something I hadn't previously considered.
Sadly the land speeder storm can only transport units with the Scout Infantry keyword.
The Authority of the Inquisition rule allows models to embark on transports normally restricted by keywords. So yeah, you inquisitor or Acolytes can rock a LS Storm if that's what props your tent.
Is is a pain that stuff like death cult assassins lack the ability to get in every transport, but on the other hand sisters rhinos and repressors are decent - so it's not a total loss.
Repressors can unfortunately only transport actual SoB, so DCAs, along with Crusaders and Arco-Flagellants, are restricted to Immolators and Rhinos.
Fenris-77 wrote: The Authority of the Inquisition rule allows models to embark on transports normally restricted by keywords. So yeah, you inquisitor or Acolytes can rock a LS Storm if that's what props your tent.
Only Faction keywords are ignored, not other keywords such as Terminator ... and presumably also Scout.
Is is a pain that stuff like death cult assassins lack the ability to get in every transport, but on the other hand sisters rhinos and repressors are decent - so it's not a total loss.
Repressors can unfortunately only transport actual SoB, so DCAs, along with Crusaders and Arco-Flagellants, are restricted to Immolators and Rhinos.
Fenris-77 wrote: The Authority of the Inquisition rule allows models to embark on transports normally restricted by keywords. So yeah, you inquisitor or Acolytes can rock a LS Storm if that's what props your tent.
Only Faction keywords are ignored, not other keywords such as Terminator ... and presumably also Scout.
Oh snap! So then i cannot take the cool BS 2+ Landraider from the Custodes right? Well normal LR is still pretty cool
Is is a pain that stuff like death cult assassins lack the ability to get in every transport, but on the other hand sisters rhinos and repressors are decent - so it's not a total loss.
Repressors can unfortunately only transport actual SoB, so DCAs, along with Crusaders and Arco-Flagellants, are restricted to Immolators and Rhinos.
Fenris-77 wrote: The Authority of the Inquisition rule allows models to embark on transports normally restricted by keywords. So yeah, you inquisitor or Acolytes can rock a LS Storm if that's what props your tent.
Only Faction keywords are ignored, not other keywords such as Terminator ... and presumably also Scout.
Oh snap! So then i cannot take the cool BS 2+ Landraider from the Custodes right? Well normal LR is still pretty cool
Nah, you still can, "Adeptus Custodes" is a faction keyword, it can however only transport 5 models. We cannot use the Land Speeder Storm because it includes a non-faction keyword in it's list of restrictions, "SCOUT".
minionboy wrote: We cannot use the Land Speeder Storm because it includes a non-faction keyword in it's list of restrictions, "SCOUT".
I think I disagree here, but I'm open to the notion. Restrictions are the lists of "cannot transport" limitations... no jump troops, no Terminators, etc. The LSStorm just says "can transport" Scouts, not "cannot transport non-Scouts." I'd say that's a permission, not a restriction, even though it keeps Space Marines from hitching a ride. Certainly Authority of the Inquisition ignores the "can transport <Chapter> Infantry" on a Rhino, so why not "can transport Scout Infantry" on an LSStorm?
minionboy wrote: We cannot use the Land Speeder Storm because it includes a non-faction keyword in it's list of restrictions, "SCOUT".
I think I disagree here, but I'm open to the notion. Restrictions are the lists of "cannot transport" limitations... no jump troops, no Terminators, etc. The LSStorm just says "can transport" Scouts, not "cannot transport non-Scouts." I'd say that's a permission, not a restriction, even though it keeps Space Marines from hitching a ride. Certainly Authority of the Inquisition ignores the "can transport <Chapter> Infantry" on a Rhino, so why not "can transport Scout Infantry" on an LSStorm?
It's not ignoring the "INFANTRY" keyword, since that is not a faction keyword, it is ignoring the "<Chapter>" keyword, as it is a faction keyword. I agree that it's silly that the only transport in the entire Imperium that they cannot ride in is a scout's speeder, but it's at least questionable enough in the rules to not warrant the financial investment in land speeder storms until FAQ'd.
minionboy wrote: We cannot use the Land Speeder Storm because it includes a non-faction keyword in it's list of restrictions, "SCOUT".
I think I disagree here, but I'm open to the notion. Restrictions are the lists of "cannot transport" limitations... no jump troops, no Terminators, etc. The LSStorm just says "can transport" Scouts, not "cannot transport non-Scouts." I'd say that's a permission, not a restriction, even though it keeps Space Marines from hitching a ride. Certainly Authority of the Inquisition ignores the "can transport <Chapter> Infantry" on a Rhino, so why not "can transport Scout Infantry" on an LSStorm?
It's not ignoring the "INFANTRY" keyword, since that is not a faction keyword, it is ignoring the "<Chapter>" keyword, as it is a faction keyword. I agree that it's silly that the only transport in the entire Imperium that they cannot ride in is a scout's speeder, but it's at least questionable enough in the rules to not warrant the financial investment in land speeder storms until FAQ'd.
That I do agree with... enough changes are coming down the line before the end of the year that holding back on purchases makes sense.
Wait, why am I wasting my time with Immolators and Land Speeders when you can take dual heavy flamer repressors, and still fire 6 flamers out of it! Looks like I found my ideal INQ transport.
Heya might be im wrong as i dont have the actual rulebook but... i cant find any rule preventing us from taking 6acolytes with 6psykannons and that is pretty decent firepower...
Under acolytes it states they may take anything from the ranged weapons inquisition has on offer so that includes the dreaded psykannon as i read this..
Unfortunately not. The way the books/lists are arranged is a bit confusing and at first glance it's easy to miss where you have to look, which is the dark grey "Wargear" box on the page that says "...Army List" at the beginning of each section (for the Inquisition that'd be page 117).
Otherwise Acolytes would be able to for example take Karamazov's multimelta, for 0 points no less.
I was thinking about gearing my Inquisitors as multi-damage dealers, since the rest of my army lacks that kind of weaponry (just plasma guns on Acolytes, and the Hellhound gun, the rest is stormbolter Acolytes, Crusaders and Acr-Flagellants...).
So should I go full Psykers + Force weapons?? Are force weapons worth the huge extra cost over normal melee weapons??
SU-152 wrote: I was thinking about gearing my Inquisitors as multi-damage dealers, since the rest of my army lacks that kind of weaponry (just plasma guns on Acolytes, and the Hellhound gun, the rest is stormbolter Acolytes, Crusaders and Acr-Flagellants...).
So should I go full Psykers + Force weapons?? Are force weapons worth the huge extra cost over normal melee weapons??
Well Cotaez has a Nemisis Daemon hammer that deals straight 3 damage and doesn't suffer -1 to hit.. For standard Inquisitors, getting -1 to hit and starting at 3+ kind of sucks.
Chimera with dual h. flamers is 109, Repressor with dual h. flamers is 107, and allows 6 models to shoot out, while the chimera effectively has the 6 lasguns. The Immolator is 103, and has longer range (though smaller capacity and no extra guns).
Chimera with dual h. bolters is 91, while a Taurox with dual autocannons is 85, or a Taurox with gatling and volley guns is only 96...
Generally speaking, I can't find much reason to run a transport that isn't a Repressor or Taurox, or Immolator. What do you think?
I've contemplated running a Valkyrie, that grav-chute rule is rather good. You can drop guys off after moving, which nothing else in the game that isn't a variant of the Valkyrie can do that. (I think)
Coyote81 wrote: I've contemplated running a Valkyrie, that grav-chute rule is rather good. You can drop guys off after moving, which nothing else in the game that isn't a variant of the Valkyrie can do that. (I think)
Yeah, I was thinking how you could put 2x6 acolytes flamers in one of those, haha. Sadly though, the weaponry on the Valkyrie seems pretty underwhelming once you factor in -1 BS for moving. Same issue with the Vendetta, 240 points for 6 lascannons sounds rad, but they're only hitting on 5's... If INQ had a good dedicated assault unit, that would be one thing, but acolytes with power mauls don't really seem up to the task.
Running down the list of transports, I'm thinking the best options are:
Repressor with double heavy flamers
Taurox or Taurox Prime (with anything)
Razorback with Assault Cannon
I don't really rate drop pods, nothing in INQ wants to get that close, except flamers, and then they cannot deploy out of the pod in range, and they're pretty expensive for what you get. If you want to get a flying transport, the Corvus Blackstar is by far the coolest looking, but you can get more dakka out of a Storm Raven, though you do pay out the nose for it.
Heres an idea. 5 plasma Acolytes and a Canoness with combi plas, in a Repressor.
6 plasmaguns (rerolling 1s from the Canoness), 2 hvy flamers and a stormbolter. 20 wounds for the unit, 12 for the transport. Comes to 293pts. Awesome but pricey.
With stormbolters instead of plasma its 216pts.
EDIT: Canoness aura doesnt work on acolytes. Ignore me.
this last Sunday I played my first 8th game. As I have a very huge Imperium army I thinked that a Inquisitor would match perfectly with me.
We played at 600pts matched game, and made my list before know who were my rival.
I used Vanguard Detachment with <IMPERIUM> key, so, this was my army:
· Inquisitor - Psyker with Bolter Condemnor and Force Sword. Ordo Hereticus
· 2 x 5 acolytes, with Storm bolter
· Acolyte (just one acolyte - named Gregor)
· Acolyte with needle pistol and power sword
· 1 x Eversor Assasin
· 1 x Vindicare Assasin
· 2 x Taurox Prime with Taurox Gatling and Autoccannon
My plan was to deploy the Vindicare in one side, with the cover of two units of one Acolyte. In this way no shoot were abailable onto vindicare until the acolytes die.
In the other side, two Taurox Prime with five acolytes inside could down any enemy they face (I thought that). In one of the Taurox I embarqued the Inquisitor.
The eversor will deploy on reserve to help where I needed.
---------------------------
I fought againts Khorne Berzerkers: one Dark Apostle, ten Space Marine, 6-7 Khorne Berzerkes, Rhino and Vindicator
I must say Acolytes are overpowered. I deployed one squad in front of a Vindicator. They resisted up to three turns of Vindicator fire (after that a perfect shoot of the Vindicator ripe off my unit... it get a 6 on shoot dice, impact with the 6, get damage with the 6 (5 plus a repeat with command points) and get enough damage to destroy all acolytes).
The Vindicare is not useful after all. He can shoot only one time, and only get any adventage when a character is on table, if the character is on a transport, you waste Vindicare shoots.
Eversor is a bad ass guy. He appeared in third turn, charge 3D6" against berserks and kill almost all them (only paladin rest). But Berzerkers are better, they fight twice each turn, and their paladin, with the apostle and lightning claws, can repeat all. Eversor died at last.
Taurox shoot a lot, but, without the Ordo rules, they are less effective than the acolytie storm bolter unit -> Taurox 20 S4 shoots Hp3+ against 5 Acolytes Storm Bolter Rapid Fire 2, 20 S4 shoots at 12" Hp 4+ with repetition to hit and damage.
No antitank in my army, and vehicles are too strong. I needed to use my inquisitor with the smite power to destroy vindicator (with the help of two Taurox and one storm bolter acolytes). After the destruction of the vindicator, I swich my objetive to the tactical space marine, one of my Taurox was destroyed with their firepower, but, the other Taurox and the other acolytes unit was too much for the tactical space marines.
After the battle, my Inquisitor, one Taurox and a full acolyte unit was over the table agains a damaged Rhino, a dark apostle and a Berserker Paladin.
--------------------------
I really don't know what to do next. We are talking to play a next battle at 1000 points.
· I really like Eversor assasin, probably I retire my vindicare and add another Eversor.
· Psyker are strong, probably I added another Inquisitor and his retinue (another 5 acolytes) with combat equipment (needle pistol and power sword and mauls)
· I don't know if still have Storm Bolter acolytes or change them with hot-laser Scyons
· What antitank can I use? I thinked about a retinue of three Plasma gun acolytes... but maybe Razorback Lascannon work better.
With the restriction on number of command squads, Acolytes are still the way to get the most number of special weapons. For melee though, they are now pretty worthless.
I was about to decide if I'd take Acolytes or Ministorum infantry... no doubt now. Acolytes are totally worthless for 8 points...gosh I was going to convert 20 next week!!!!!
SU-152 wrote: I was about to decide if I'd take Acolytes or Ministorum infantry... no doubt now. Acolytes are totally worthless for 8 points...gosh I was going to convert 20 next week!!!!!
They're worthless in large numbers, but again, for spamming special weapons they are the only option with the loss of command squads.
It definitely settles the debate between Acolytes with mauls vs Arco Flagellants.
Regular squads still get a solid saturation of guns. And at BS3+, you're already doing 33% more damage with each shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regular squads still get a solid saturation of guns. And at BS3+, you're already doing 33% more damage with each shot.
I have drafted a set of house rules to allow people to create Inquisitorial Warbands. These are intended to be used in groups of friends rather than tournaments, and so they do have gaps which can be abused if people aren't playing "fluffily".
Any feedback would be welcome. I, like many here, missed the opportunity to field the fun and interesting ragtag warbands!
Right, so Inquisitors wargear has been slashed. (rad and psychotroke grenades, hellrifle, daemonsword, digital weapons, terminator armor for hereticus and xenos, conversion beamer, hvy weapon servitors and bloody power armour) all gone.
Jokeros and Daemon hosts can no longer enter transports for some bloody reason.
Arco/DCA/Crusaders cant be taken in the same squad, if you want to have some of each, and a priest in a transport (like i used to) they can be targeted seperately, and thats 5 kill points please. Oh and it HAS to be a sisters rhino.
And now the cherry on top. The only unit that I was remotely interested in, the only saving grace of the Inq list, the Acolyte, has been dropped from 3W to 1W with no reduction in points. Negating any uniqueness it had. Surely 3W on T3 5+ models isnt OP.
Someone answer me this, whats the point in taking Acolytes over Scions or AM Vets? Sure they can catch bullets for a nearby inquisitor, but is that superior to accessing orders?
I'm thinking back to when GW was spinning thier bull about us being able to use all of our models, that everything we have will be viable in game. My pure Inquisition army and my Hellrifle Inquisitor in power armour say otherwise.
Sorry for the rant but the Jakman is salty. He's very salty.
the_Jakman wrote: Right, so Inquisitors wargear has been slashed. (rad and psychotroke grenades, hellrifle, daemonsword, digital weapons, terminator armor for hereticus and xenos, conversion beamer, hvy weapon servitors and bloody power armour) all gone.
Jokeros and Daemon hosts can no longer enter transports for some bloody reason.
Arco/DCA/Crusaders cant be taken in the same squad, if you want to have some of each, and a priest in a transport (like i used to) they can be targeted seperately, and thats 5 kill points please. Oh and it HAS to be a sisters rhino.
And now the cherry on top. The only unit that I was remotely interested in, the only saving grace of the Inq list, the Acolyte, has been dropped from 3W to 1W with no reduction in points. Negating any uniqueness it had. Surely 3W on T3 5+ models isnt OP.
Someone answer me this, whats the point in taking Acolytes over Scions or AM Vets? Sure they can catch bullets for a nearby inquisitor, but is that superior to accessing orders?
I'm thinking back to when GW was spinning thier bull about us being able to use all of our models, that everything we have will be viable in game. My pure Inquisition army and my Hellrifle Inquisitor in power armour say otherwise.
Sorry for the rant but the Jakman is salty. He's very salty.
GW did say you could use all your models, just that you could use all your models that they are selling. Don't get me wrong, a large part of my army is unusable as inquisition at the moment so I to am a bit salty about the inquisition list
GW said you could use all your models (current or not, I think - but, regardless).
What they did NOT say - and which is causing the saltiness - is that you could continue to use them in the same way. You can certainly use any Inquisition model in your army. Their effectiveness will vary a great deal.
With regard to the Acolytes; a 3 W model for 8pts (which can catch bullets for an Inquisitor) was rather too good. I don't know why you would take them over a whole slew of Elite Infantry in the IMPERIUM Faction (because, after all, if you are running an Inquisition force, you are using IMPERIUM as your Faction Keyword) except for that rule. They are designed to be bodyguards for the Inquisitor, first and foremost.
Acolytes have gone down to 1 wound in the FAQ. They are now 8 point guardsmen. Move along, nothing to see here.
I'm AFB at the moment I think psycannons are there in the inquisition ranged weapons list. But they've got a little mark on to say that only inquisitors can have them. That could be causing some confusion above.
Darknight wrote: GW said you could use all your models (current or not, I think - but, regardless).
What they did NOT say - and which is causing the saltiness - is that you could continue to use them in the same way. You can certainly use any Inquisition model in your army. Their effectiveness will vary a great deal.
You can't because many of them have illegal gear now.
They have actually said different things. The wording I've seen is that the indexes cover every model that they sell, not everything you might own. They never made a model with a daemon sword or hellrifle.
On the other hand they do make inquisitors with power armour, so it's weird that option's gone. And they still let you have psycannons on your inquisitors, despote them never having a model.
Mandragola wrote: They have actually said different things. The wording I've seen is that the indexes cover every model that they sell, not everything you might own. They never made a model with a daemon sword or hellrifle.
On the other hand they do make inquisitors with power armour, so it's weird that option's gone. And they still let you have psycannons on your inquisitors, despote them never having a model.
I've given up trying to make sense of why they did what they did with wargear and units in the Indices - just look at the gakshow they made of Deathwatch again with no rhyme or reason I can discern.
I was looking at the Sororitas Repressor with Acolytes. It has 2 Heavy Flamers and 6 'Firing Ports' which let 6 models inside fire from any point on the model. Plasma acolytes?
Drager wrote: I was looking at the Sororitas Repressor with Acolytes. It has 2 Heavy Flamers and 6 'Firing Ports' which let 6 models inside fire from any point on the model. Plasma acolytes?
Not at 21pts a model for guardsmen BS of 4+. At best I'd do sotrm bolters, but with the change to 1wound each, they are way overcosted.
When in a vehicle you are effectively paying 21 points to add it to the gun because the repressor has fire points. Thus you are increasing the survivability of the model. That's why I brought up the repressor, without multiple wounds it doesn't matter too much if they are inside the transport and you can't do the same thing with guardsmen.
But at that point, why not just throw sisters in there? Only 1 or 2 points more per model (depending on whether you use regular sisters or Dominions), and they come with BS3+, better armour for when they have to get out, as well as access to acts of faith.
Fafnir wrote: But at that point, why not just throw sisters in there? Only 1 or 2 points more per model (depending on whether you use regular sisters or Dominions), and they come with BS3+, better armour for when they have to get out, as well as access to acts of faith.
this. There's just nothing that acolytes do that other Imperial soup units can't do better.
I still like flamer acolytes in a Repressor, that's 8D6 auto hits within 8". Additionally, they are the only models that you can use with the any transport rule, and the only models that can get inside the Inquisitorial Land Raider Prometheus (which is amazing).
Generally though, I agree that sisters do a better job than acolytes in most situations.
Inquisition really is supposed to be an Imperial Soup faction though, they have total authority to commandeer any resources they want. My personal INQ also consists of Ministorum units and Militarum Tempestus (as Inquisitorial storm troopers). It's all still very fluffy and works well together. Arco Flagellants are amazing counter-attack units, and when you put them inside of Sororitas Rhinos, even better. I don't have a unit of crusaders yet, but I don't think I'd take them over Death Cult Assassins or Arco Flagellants. Oh, and Penitent Engines are amazing.
If you are playing a proper Imperial Soup inquisition army, definitely consider a single squad of Retributors though, the Act of Faith they generate really cranks up their damage output.
Fafnir wrote: But at that point, why not just throw sisters in there? Only 1 or 2 points more per model (depending on whether you use regular sisters or Dominions), and they come with BS3+, better armour for when they have to get out, as well as access to acts of faith.
Sisters don't get reroll can't take 6 models with 6 special weapons and can't use acts of faith whilst embarked (I think) so are way more expensive for the same guns.
Fafnir wrote: But at that point, why not just throw sisters in there? Only 1 or 2 points more per model (depending on whether you use regular sisters or Dominions), and they come with BS3+, better armour for when they have to get out, as well as access to acts of faith.
Sisters don't get reroll can't take 6 models with 6 special weapons and can't use acts of faith whilst embarked (I think) so are way more expensive for the same guns.
No, but they can get four special weapons in a Dominion Squad (plus a Storm Bolter), and then also get a scout move for themselves and the Repressor. It's not that far off IMO.
Fafnir wrote: But at that point, why not just throw sisters in there? Only 1 or 2 points more per model (depending on whether you use regular sisters or Dominions), and they come with BS3+, better armour for when they have to get out, as well as access to acts of faith.
Sisters don't get reroll can't take 6 models with 6 special weapons and can't use acts of faith whilst embarked (I think) so are way more expensive for the same guns.
Sisters hit 33% more often, can take 5-man squads with 5 special weapons (Dominions), and their guns cost the same. And unlike Acolytes, which are pretty much instantly dead the moment they are out on their own, Dominions have a solid 3+ save which makes them decently resilient on the table, and allows them to tie up non-dedicated CC units (they also get acts of faith and Canoness rerolls once unembarked). Moreover, Dominions get a vanguard movement, which means you can get them into firing position sooner.
With Dominions, that's 2 points more per man. Not even close to "way more" expensive.
Fafnir wrote: But at that point, why not just throw sisters in there? Only 1 or 2 points more per model (depending on whether you use regular sisters or Dominions), and they come with BS3+, better armour for when they have to get out, as well as access to acts of faith.
Sisters don't get reroll can't take 6 models with 6 special weapons and can't use acts of faith whilst embarked (I think) so are way more expensive for the same guns.
Sisters hit 33% more often, can take 5-man squads with 5 special weapons (Dominions), and their guns cost the same. And unlike Acolytes, which are pretty much instantly dead the moment they are out on their own, Dominions have a solid 3+ save which makes them decently resilient on the table, and allows them to tie up non-dedicated CC units (they also get acts of faith and Canoness rerolls once unembarked). Moreover, Dominions get a vanguard movement, which means you can get them into firing position sooner.
With Dominions, that's 2 points more per man. Not even close to "way more" expensive.
We weren't talking about sisters in drop pods. We were talking about putting sisters and acolytes into repressors. A role that Sisters do considerably better.
If you're looking for a deepstriking special weapon squad, Tempestus Scions do the same role as a drop podding acolyte squad, but with much better performance and efficiency and without the need to pay for the pod (further improving that efficiency). Better yet, they can take a Tempestor prime for access to command squads and orders (a Temestus command squad with plasma guns and a tempestor prime with plasma pistol costs 17 points less than an Acolyte Squad with plasma guns while doing more hits with their shooting and being more survivable thanks to the better save).
There is not a single role in the game where Acolytes can be considered a competitive choice.
I think the poor old Inquisition has mostly fallen out of my list for the moment. Once there's room in the budget and in the paint queue, I'll try 3 Bullgryns with maul and slabshield, an Inquisitor with maul (and Terrify), and a Priest with Eviscerator (and +1A buff) riding in a dual-heavy-flamer Chimera for somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 points.
Or maybe just wait for a codex that fixes some of these playability issues!
Inquisition are a really nice way to boost your leadership remember.
I've been using mine as a HQ detachment for Leadership and Smite/Terrify support for my sisters armies to pretty good effect.
As far as acolytes....the nerf really hurt but they are still somewhere between Scions and Guard Infantry.
Better Leadership, more attacks, can be taken as a unit of one, can ride in any transport, and can be given an ordos that gives them a reroll on a 1 for various targets. Saying they have no role is a bit misleading. Anyone thought of using them with power mauls? A cheap S5 melee unit is not a bad support unit for an inquisitor. (2 swings each at S5 for 12 points...) Same could be said for a cheap storm bolter or needle pistol delivery to take down large wound non vehicle units.
Also with Ld 7 and min size of 1 model you can effectively eliminate moral from these units by just taking 2 models per unit.
GAdvance wrote: Why use a drop Pod when you could just use Scions doing the same hting without paying over 100 extra pts for it.
Unless the aim is to drop pod in the inquisitor himself aswell, if that's the plan then WHY?
Well, primarily for fun.
I have a list with 3x inquisitors (plasma guns) and 6x plasma gun Acolytes in a drop pod. +3x 5x Interceptors and two vindicare.
That's at 1000 points.
For 68 pts you can get an Inq with a plasma gun and smite.
Pretty viable DS unit in my eyes.
If you have fun with it, great (seriously, that's a good thing. I myself can't find any fun in the Inquisitional list because it's been so robbed of life and flavour, but if you can get some of your money's worth out of it, that's awesome). But it's not viable. Everything those Acolytes are going to do to compete with scions/guard, Scions are going to end up doing better and with much greater point efficiency.
sfshilo wrote:Inquisition are a really nice way to boost your leadership remember.
I've been using mine as a HQ detachment for Leadership and Smite/Terrify support for my sisters armies to pretty good effect.
As far as acolytes....the nerf really hurt but they are still somewhere between Scions and Guard Infantry.
They're between scions and guardsmen, sure, but far closer on the side to the standard guardsman. Moreover, they still cost more than both once you outfit them with similar weaponry.
As far as Inquisitors providing a leadership buff, remember that you're spending a minimum of 55 points for that buff. For most of the units that might make use of that buff, you're only getting 1 extra point of leadership. If you're not running them as multiple small units (in which case, their leadership will never be a problem anyway), then you'll often get more value just buying an additional model for that unit. And Astra Telepathica gets Terrifying Visions, which is better than the Inquisition's Terrify for messing with enemy morale checks as well.
In order to make Inquisitors fill a role, you have to intentionally make a gap in your forces just to fit them in, pretty much. To the point where it's generally going to be easier and more effective to ignore them entirely and fill that gap with more competent list building strategies.
Better Leadership, more attacks, can be taken as a unit of one, can ride in any transport, and can be given an ordos that gives them a reroll on a 1 for various targets. Saying they have no role is a bit misleading. Anyone thought of using them with power mauls? A cheap S5 melee unit is not a bad support unit for an inquisitor. (2 swings each at S5 for 12 points...) Same could be said for a cheap storm bolter or needle pistol delivery to take down large wound non vehicle units.
Also with Ld 7 and min size of 1 model you can effectively eliminate moral from these units by just taking 2 models per unit.
Arco Flagellants hit on 3s with rerolls (Zealot), get more attacks (and way more out of a Priest buff, should you take one), a better save, have two wounds instead of one, better movement, and are only 15 points per model. They used to have a role in melee with W3, but since the nerf, they're massively outclassed.
sfshilo wrote: Inquisition are a really nice way to boost your leadership remember.
I've been using mine as a HQ detachment for Leadership and Smite/Terrify support for my sisters armies to pretty good effect.
As far as acolytes....the nerf really hurt but they are still somewhere between Scions and Guard Infantry.
Better Leadership, more attacks, can be taken as a unit of one, can ride in any transport, and can be given an ordos that gives them a reroll on a 1 for various targets. Saying they have no role is a bit misleading. Anyone thought of using them with power mauls? A cheap S5 melee unit is not a bad support unit for an inquisitor. (2 swings each at S5 for 12 points...) Same could be said for a cheap storm bolter or needle pistol delivery to take down large wound non vehicle units.
Also with Ld 7 and min size of 1 model you can effectively eliminate moral from these units by just taking 2 models per unit.
Problem is they're having to borrow another Imperium armies transport to put his melee unit in combat and for pretty much the entire rest of the Imperium there is something tha could go in that transport with the inquisitor that would do the same job but better
Inquisitors, I've been granted access to the armies attending the upcoming ATC tournament. Several top players DO believe Acolytes have a competitive niche!
I'll be throwing death cult in even if they can't hide in transports. If you run them carefully they will either draw all the firr or get in to combat. Psyker inquisitors are underated.
In the era of conscript spams, reducing leadership and stopping overwatch fire then piling in some death cult (5 attacks each with priest) a unit of 10 (excuse math hammer) shpuld be killing 30 guardsmen in a round of combat.
My list will feature guardsmen for the heavy weapon teams and chimeras and just basic acolytes with bolt guns. 48 points for an objective claiming unit with maneuverability is a win for me.
We will see how that goes of course and this'll be happening because I only have acolytes with bolters. ..
I think you're greatly overestimating the Vindicare's potential, especially if your opponent ever decides to take more than one Commissar (or, hell, even just a Lord Commissar). You're going to find that the Vindicare, at least alone, is going to disappoint you more often than not. And if you do start paying for multiple, your opponent is already winning with you spending a considerably large amount of points on a pretty mediocre unit with limited utility.
And even if you do manage to get really lucky with the Vindicare, and your opponent is stupid enough not to supply adequate Commissar redundancies, he can still just command point his way through any morale losses.
Your problem is that you're assuming your opponent is an idiot. Don't. You should always assume your opponent is at least smarter than yourself when making such comparisons.
Even if you invest in multiples, a Commissar costs 30 points. That's an arms race that you can never win, just to focus down a model that's going to cost a third of a single Vindicare. It's in no way a viable counter.
Fafnir wrote: I think you're greatly overestimating the Vindicare's potential, especially if your opponent ever decides to take more than one Commissar (or, hell, even just a Lord Commissar). You're going to find that the Vindicare, at least alone, is going to disappoint you more often than not. And if you do start paying for multiple, your opponent is already winning with you spending a considerably large amount of points on a pretty mediocre unit with limited utility.
And even if you do manage to get really lucky with the Vindicare, and your opponent is stupid enough not to supply adequate Commissar redundancies, he can still just command point his way through any morale losses.
Your problem is that you're assuming your opponent is an idiot. Don't. You should always assume your opponent is at least smarter than yourself when making such comparisons.
You anticipate Commissar spam? They're an elite choice with 3 wounds. The Vindicare exists to force positioning and punish if they stray too far away from the 4x or 6x commissars. Either way, thats a hefty Force Org investment in a conscript blob. You might be right. The lord commissar gets an extra wound and is an HQ. How many HQs/Elites are you expecting to see dedicated to conscript morale?
What are these conscripts even protecting at this point? Could I take 6x Vindicare to try to remove the Commissars? Sure. Could I also spend over 500 points on things to kill the conscripts? Sure. Could I spend 500 points on killing whatever they're trying to bubble-wrap? Sure.
Trying to do up an Inquisition list on Battlescribe but it doesn't seem right: the Inquisition selection is missing loads of options and the acolytes have 1 wound not the fabled 3.
Is it just not done yet or are you guys finding it somewhere else?
Otto Weston wrote: Trying to do up an Inquisition list on Battlescribe but it doesn't seem right: the Inquisition selection is missing loads of options and the acolytes have 1 wound not the fabled 3.
Is it just not done yet or are you guys finding it somewhere else?
Thanks
As of the FAQ, Acolytes no longer have 3 wounds. They only have 1. Can't really answer the other stuff as I haven't even tried to make an Inquisition detachment in Battlescribe yet.
Otto Weston wrote: Trying to do up an Inquisition list on Battlescribe but it doesn't seem right: the Inquisition selection is missing loads of options and the acolytes have 1 wound not the fabled 3.
Is it just not done yet or are you guys finding it somewhere else?
Thanks
As of the FAQ, Acolytes no longer have 3 wounds. They only have 1. Can't really answer the other stuff as I haven't even tried to make an Inquisition detachment in Battlescribe yet.
Oh okay. Thought 3 was high but I was expecting 2 wounds for 'plot armour' after an FAQ but it seems like they gutted them.
I also have an Inquisition Land Raider but they only have access to the Prometheus now or are the other variants being accepted later?
I find Plasma Acolytes to be pretty cool; if you can get the correct Ordo (e.g. Playing against Xenos or GK) you get re-rolls to hit and wound. That puts them at significantly higher % throughput than marine equivalents.
I think the special weapons might be overcosted; especially with all the power gaming shenanigans going on, but they're not #unplayable as a lot of people seem to suggest. Increase the max unit size to 10 and I'd be more comfortable using them.
As it stands, they're the only decent thing I have to try to balance against DS alpha strike with Coteaz's intercept rule.
Otto Weston wrote: I also have an Inquisition Land Raider but they only have access to the Prometheus now or are the other variants being accepted later?
The Inquisitorial Prometheus is just the only Land Raider with Ordo keyword. Other Land Raiders can still be part of your army and be boarded by Inquisitors and Acolytes as per the "Authority ..." rule.
Page 120 – Inquisitor, Wargear Options
Change the first and second bullet points to read:
‘• This model may replace its bolt pistol with an item
from the Inquisition Pistol Weapons or Inquisition Ranged
Weapons lists.
• This model may replace its chainsword with one item
from the Inquisition Melee Weapons list.’
Page 122 – Acolytes
Change the Wounds characteristic to read ‘1’.
Page 123 – Jokaero Weaponsmith, Abilities
Add the following ability to this datasheet:
‘Authority of the Inquisition (pg 117)’
Jokaero being able to sit in transports is nice (what about Daemonhosts?), but Inquisition is still hot garbage. We're in need of a major rewrite to be playable, tiny alterations here and there just aren't going to cut it.
Fafnir wrote: Jokaero being able to sit in transports is nice (what about Daemonhosts?), but Inquisition is still hot garbage. We're in need of a major rewrite to be playable, tiny alterations here and there just aren't going to cut it.
Yes, I'm glad I can put some of my inquisitor models back on the board With wysiwyg weapons, but we still have a problem. For me it's the loss of the cool mixed squads of crusaders/DCA/ acolytes. Etc.
Also I'm really torn between keeping my plasma acolytes (to get the quarry rule) or dropping one them them and calling it a scion command squad - to get deep strike, better bs better armour and still re rolling 1s with the right order from a tempest or prime.
( four plasma scions + 1 prime = 104 points vs 5 plasma acolytes for 105 points)
ALSO - what is the deal with jokaero? Great that they can go in the transport, but the only work on ordo units, who already have the quarry rule, so the chance of getting re-roll hit and re-roll wounds is kind of meh. (Although I guess could come in handy if you are often playing imperial armies or a tournament where you have to keep the same Ordo for all your games (good luck!)
Page 120 – Inquisitor, Wargear Options
Change the first and second bullet points to read:
‘• This model may replace its bolt pistol with an item
from the Inquisition Pistol Weapons or Inquisition Ranged
Weapons lists.
• This model may replace its chainsword with one item
from the Inquisition Melee Weapons list.’
Page 122 – Acolytes
Change the Wounds characteristic to read ‘1’.
Page 123 – Jokaero Weaponsmith, Abilities
Add the following ability to this datasheet:
‘Authority of the Inquisition (pg 117)’
They should have done the first point for accolytes as well, now I still can't use most of my accolytes
Take Acolytes as Malleus with Coteaz to get free shots at Deep-Struck units. That's why I run a Jokaero.
I've been enjoying my Inquisition Drop Pod.
Coteaz, an Inferno Pistol psyker (Xenos) Inquisitor (would be a plasma gun if I didn't love the witch hunter model so much), 6x Plasma Acolytes, and a Jokaero.
I run it in a list with some GK. A Squad of Interceptors shunts to meet the drop pod; Coteaz casts Terrify, 12x re-rolling something plasma shots from the Acolytes (I always take Malleus for the intercept, so its from the Jokaero), the Monkey Lascannon, 2x Smites, and a boosted (11ld : -1 ld debuff) Purge Soul.
Sad about the Drop Pod tax; if there was an Inquisition version that cost 70 points but could only take Inquisition Models I'd be so happy. Still have room for 1 model, maybe I'll take a Librarian someday. Not enough points at 1k.
Its kind of a goofy list, but Acolytes are actually pretty decent. Scions are known to be a little imbalanced (closest comparison). Acolytes can get free re-rolls via Quarry (all Xenos or Psykers) if you don't mind flip-flopping them.
It's a little weird to me that they're 21 points with a Plasma Gun (Primaris is only 20?), but they clearly aren't getting much attention. If they Plasma price dropped to 7 I think they'd actually be in a really decent place.
I wish Daemonhosts got Authority of the Inquisition and sure wouldn't mind the acolyte squad size increasing. (As I think I've said before in this thread, sorry)
Outside of running in GK, I can't imagine much use for them though.
Page 120 – Inquisitor, Wargear Options
Change the first and second bullet points to read:
‘• This model may replace its bolt pistol with an item
from the Inquisition Pistol Weapons or Inquisition Ranged
Weapons lists.
• This model may replace its chainsword with one item
from the Inquisition Melee Weapons list.’
Page 122 – Acolytes
Change the Wounds characteristic to read ‘1’.
Page 123 – Jokaero Weaponsmith, Abilities
Add the following ability to this datasheet:
‘Authority of the Inquisition (pg 117)’
Where is this from? Official FAQ on gw site seems to still be on version 1.0
Where should I be looking?
Thanks
Edit: ok found it on the warhammer community site. Frustrating that the main GW site is not uptodate.
So I have an interesting idea, what do you guys think of this. You take a Inquisition Prometheus Land Raider, and Inquisitor Coteaz. No if your opponent bring on anything after the game has started with 36" and LOS, it gets 24 Heavy Bolter shots at it, albeit 6s, unless it's chaos or daemon, then I get rerolls to hit and wound. in the standard shooting phase, you use a Jokero Weaponsmith to give it rerolls to hit/wound.
Coyote81 wrote: So I have an interesting idea, what do you guys think of this. You take a Inquisition Prometheus Land Raider, and Inquisitor Coteaz. No if your opponent bring on anything after the game has started with 36" and LOS, it gets 24 Heavy Bolter shots at it, albeit 6s, unless it's chaos or daemon, then I get rerolls to hit and wound. in the standard shooting phase, you use a Jokero Weaponsmith to give it rerolls to hit/wound.
That's a huge amount of points for a system that'll kill an average of 1.7 Militarum Tempestus Scions when they land. It's a neat idea, but I think it's just too expensive for the firepower it provides. Changing Coteaz's Spy Network from standard shooting to Overwatch removed all the teeth from the ability.
Has anyone come up with a 2000pt list that works? To me inquisitors are still a good way to get solid LD and smite for a decent price. Acolytes have access to transports and lots of special weapons and now weaponsmiths can join them in transports now as well.
I have yet to see a 2000pt Inquisition list that didn't rely entirely on another army (usually IG) to do the actual fighting for it. Inquisition will always be awesome to me, but now with inquisitors being 30 points more expensive (because they are required to ALWAYS be pskerys/anti-psykers), half the Inquisitorial special equipment (including carapace and power armor) missing, Acolytes with over-priced BS 4+ special weapons and jokaero that have gotten a point increase, a weapon nerf AND lost the ability to hide in squads... Inquisition is not what it used to be, and it wasn't exactly game-breaking before. If you want a significant Inquisition list, wait until the codex drops (Imperial Agents, because Squats are coming back before the Inquisition gets it's own codex) after all the other real armies get a codex or take Tempestus Scions, call them Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and don't take too many actual Inquisition units, 'cause they're pretty garbage.
AdmiralHalsey wrote: They serve a roll in filling up Vanguard detachments, or giving you a stupidly cheap drop to maximise the amount of points spent on deepstrikers.
Don't expect those tiny units to ever do anything though, except maybe deny a bit of deepstrike on T1.
How about riding in a repressor with 6 melta/plasma guns? 4 spaces left over for cc madness to unload next turn, if that suicide flamer bomb squad survives. Perhaps ur Inquisitor could ride in there next with death-cult assassins and a priest. I'd take a quarry over a dominion squad. Helps a bit a while.
At the moment I can't see much use for Daemonhosts or Space Monkeys but looking at points it feels like GW's intent was to make Alcolytes into slightly beefed Veteran Guardsmen (+2 points for Quarry (which is solid in the right circumstances) and the ability to board potentially any vehicle (pending GW telling us we're dumb and to knock off stuff like running hinting packs of Land Speeders full of Hot Shots).
Which would be fine if we paid the same points for upgrades that the codexes did. Scions pay a point for Hotshot Lasguns while we pay 4. Hardly fair to be more expensive than a unit with a better save than us for the same gear.
And that is a real shame too because for TAC purposes the Hot Shot is the better choice over the cheaper bolter (only coming out to being equivilant against Space Marine Scouts in terms of models killed on average assuming no rerolls).
Right now the army feels weak due to missing options, but based on how GW seems intent to branch out stuff like the Custodes into a more stand alone force, I could see the Inquisition getting more options with a full codex later. For now though it feels like borrowing requisitioning resources from other armies will be the standard by which the army functions, which is a shame because there is a lot of potential for some really cool armies that is being squandered by the lack of options. The army has been a converter's paradise for some time now and not just getting the option to do whatever we want like we used to is a slap in the face I'm not excited about.
That said I've gravitated towards starting an Inqusititorial warband anyways just so I can spend far too much time converting and kitbashing models with needlessly detailed backstories though I'm loathe to get too far out since we're missing so many options at the moment.
AdmiralHalsey wrote: They serve a roll in filling up Vanguard detachments, or giving you a stupidly cheap drop to maximise the amount of points spent on deepstrikers.
Don't expect those tiny units to ever do anything though, except maybe deny a bit of deepstrike on T1.
How about riding in a repressor with 6 melta/plasma guns? 4 spaces left over for cc madness to unload next turn, if that suicide flamer bomb squad survives. Perhaps ur Inquisitor could ride in there next with death-cult assassins and a priest. I'd take a quarry over a dominion squad. Helps a bit a while.
At the moment the only way you're moving DCA up the field with a Priests is in a Sororias Rhino or a Repressor. Authority of the Inquisition doesn't transfer to the rest of the army so only the Inquisitors, Alcolytes, Jokareo and Daemonhost can ride in any vehicle you stick into an army list.
That said, a Repulsor is about the right level of over the top for the Inquisition and can be an okay support vehicle/transport for them, though I'm a little partial to Land Raider Crusaders or the FW Inquisitiorial Landrader with the Quad Heavy Bolters and <Quarry> (24 Heavy Bolter shots that can reroll wounds and misses against Quarry targets? YES PLEASE!).
I've been doing a little conversion on an Enginseer to make him an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a needle gun and power sword, and accompanied by two Acolytes to fill the Vanguard detachment. They'll be accompanied by a Deathwatch Watch captain with jetpack, and 5 Vanguard Veterans with THs/SS. I'll have the Inquisitor and his friends run around in a Taurox Prime with maybe 5 Scions in it to fill it up a little.
But man, I didn't realise Inquisition got slapped THAT hard in the Index. It was painfully difficult to find reasonably priced (and useful) wargear to put on 3 models. I've settled with a flamer and a bolt pistol for the first acolyte, and a chainsword/bolt pistol for the other. I don't feel like paying extra points (even the flamer is 9 pts when almost everyone else has it for 7 pts) for a weapon with a poor BS (4+ is poor to me), same for the CC weapons. Paying extra for 2 attacks is dumb considering the guy is T3 S3 with a 5+.
I really hope we'll get more options and a reasonable pricing in the future. And that they don't just say "screw this faction" and forget Inquisition forever. It's still worth it just for the psychic power that prevents Overwatch, that thing is pure gold. The sole reason I'm having an Inquisitor (and a little bit for fun with the fluff). I'm just waiting for the opportunity to cast it on a Baneblade to charge with the Deathwatch and blow it up (yeah I know Baneblades aren't Xenos).
Aaranis wrote: I've been doing a little conversion on an Enginseer to make him an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a needle gun and power sword, and accompanied by two Acolytes to fill the Vanguard detachment. They'll be accompanied by a Deathwatch Watch captain with jetpack, and 5 Vanguard Veterans with THs/SS. I'll have the Inquisitor and his friends run around in a Taurox Prime with maybe 5 Scions in it to fill it up a little.
But man, I didn't realise Inquisition got slapped THAT hard in the Index. It was painfully difficult to find reasonably priced (and useful) wargear to put on 3 models. I've settled with a flamer and a bolt pistol for the first acolyte, and a chainsword/bolt pistol for the other. I don't feel like paying extra points (even the flamer is 9 pts when almost everyone else has it for 7 pts) for a weapon with a poor BS (4+ is poor to me), same for the CC weapons. Paying extra for 2 attacks is dumb considering the guy is T3 S3 with a 5+.
Yeah, currently the army is rather...lacking. I blame GW rolling back to "only stuff we made models for" meaning all the options date back to the old metal models, and maybe some Necromunda stuff. Basically we're hurting due to a policy to discourage 3rd party stuff like Chapter House from cropping up again.
It sucks, but that's modern 40k for you.
Aaranis wrote: I really hope we'll get more options and a reasonable pricing in the future. And that they don't just say "screw this faction" and forget Inquisition forever. It's still worth it just for the psychic power that prevents Overwatch, that thing is pure gold. The sole reason I'm having an Inquisitor (and a little bit for fun with the fluff). I'm just waiting for the opportunity to cast it on a Baneblade to charge with the Deathwatch and blow it up (yeah I know Baneblades aren't Xenos).
I don't see us getting Zoatted. I do see that we may get a more official kit in the future (for better or worse) and with it we'll have more dedicated options (though I could see some gimmicks like Transports staying wide open since it lets them give us flavor at little extra work. Maybe give us a Inquistor vehicle upgrade kit (ala GSC) and put datasheets for all the transport options we can take into the book and let us go nuts).
The big problem with GW's "no models, no rules" policy facing the Inquisition is that they had always been built from the ground up as being the faction meant for individual expression above all else. They were built from the ground up to rely heavily on converted models, since every Inquisitor is meant to be unique and eccentric. They've been on the losing end of this policy for years, getting options constantly cut. There is no way that they could have come out of this on top, not through GW's lens. They simply will never be able to pump out enough variety of models to fill the scope of the Inquisition, because the Inquisition's scope is infinite.
What needs to happen for the Inquisition to ever be a remotely fun or remotely viable faction is for GW to step back on their policy. Properly acknowledge that certain factions, most namely the Inquisition, should be made with advanced modellers with an eye for customization in mind. Make some core kits, but market them as a basis for converting and combining with other GW products. You could even twist it as a throwback to earlier eras to draw on the nostalgia factor.
Given that they were a few examples of conversion encouraged by GW lately (Grand Master in Nemesis armour and the custom Guard regiments come to my mind) I wouldn't say that they are abandoning conversion as a whole, just that they are contradictory with themselves. They're removing entries because "no models = no rules" but in the same time encourage conversions. There's also a few things that are buggering me, like the Cognis Manipulator for the Onager Dunecrawler, that was an option in 7th and still have a part in the kit to use it, but doesn't have rules anymore. This is frustrating because who knows what GW wants in the end ? They could surprise us positively or negatively, or both at the same time at this rate.
The big difference I see between the conversions in the books and the Inquisition is that the book conversions don't add wargear options not normally found in kits (and one of them is Peachy's Guard army, not an official studio army but an employee's one). The Inquisition almost requires you to add stuff not normally found in a kit, and while an Alcolyte box similar to the Deathwatch one will take us far, it does mean that we may lose some of our expected options in favor of new ones that other armies don't have.
That's a large part of why I'm taking the time to convert up models with weapons that can be fluffed as a number of options: it means even if the core options change, my army will stay valid.
That said, I feel like we'll be one of the few armies (other than Sisters of Silence) to see a major release in this first wave of 8th edition. A number of stuff will likely come back with such a kit (like Storm Shields) but until then the shields will just have to serve as a cool piece of kit that doesn't do anything game wise.
Fafnir wrote: The big problem with GW's "no models, no rules" policy facing the Inquisition is that they had always been built from the ground up as being the faction meant for individual expression above all else. They were built from the ground up to rely heavily on converted models, since every Inquisitor is meant to be unique and eccentric. They've been on the losing end of this policy for years, getting options constantly cut. There is no way that they could have come out of this on top, not through GW's lens. They simply will never be able to pump out enough variety of models to fill the scope of the Inquisition, because the Inquisition's scope is infinite.
What needs to happen for the Inquisition to ever be a remotely fun or remotely viable faction is for GW to step back on their policy. Properly acknowledge that certain factions, most namely the Inquisition, should be made with advanced modellers with an eye for customization in mind. Make some core kits, but market them as a basis for converting and combining with other GW products. You could even twist it as a throwback to earlier eras to draw on the nostalgia factor.
There is a set of kits now that work well for acolytes, and would work exceptionally well with a "DW kill team style" acolyte box: Necromunda gangers.
Having realised my error of overlooking the Storm Bolter in the ranged weapons list, I went back and crunched numbers versus the Hotshot Lasgun. To put it short it out performs the Hotshot against almost anything, matches it against T5 3+ models (as well as T8+ 3+ models meaning they're both about the same for trying to strip that last wound off a vehicle). The only place that the Hotshot does better is against T5 2+ models (Blightlords, Deathshroud) and models with T8+ 2+ (Land Raiders namely). Against TEQ both weapons work the same, meaning that either is an alright method (a full squad of 6 of either only does .67 wounds for a full round of shooting) for dealing with those.
Factor in that the Storm Bolter is only 2 points and it's definitely the best choice of gun for the base Alcolyte. Due to pricing I'm not entirely sure that combi-weapons are good choices on anyone (I almost wonder if they set the prices based on the Inquisitor's stats and forgot to give the Alcolytes a cheaper cost), and as always Plasma is still the great TAC weapon this edition due to having decent range and good punch. 13 points isn't too heavy for them, but I'm not planning on running an Inquisition style Hellblaster squad of them anytime soon.
Eisenhorn's Daemonhost upgrade is how they should have been by default, honestly.
The duo are a step in a better direction, the fact that it relies on interaction with the Inquisitor alone is a good move. But the Inquisition still needs a huge amount of love and consideration before it works.
Eisenhorn looks pretty decent. Not great, but decent. I really wish we had some more options in terms of hitting things in the face better, but maybe that's being reserved for the codex and more play testing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thinking of things I feel like we're missing: Interrogators. Read Carrion Throne a couple days ago (and excluding the awesomeness of a human bashing heretics with an Astartes Crozius Arcanum aside) it really pushed a kind of dual leadership thing between the two. Kind of like an Astartes Captain and Lieutenant kind of deal. I hope we get rules to represent that in the codex.
Fafnir wrote: The big problem with GW's "no models, no rules" policy facing the Inquisition is that they had always been built from the ground up as being the faction meant for individual expression above all else. They were built from the ground up to rely heavily on converted models, since every Inquisitor is meant to be unique and eccentric. They've been on the losing end of this policy for years, getting options constantly cut. There is no way that they could have come out of this on top, not through GW's lens. They simply will never be able to pump out enough variety of models to fill the scope of the Inquisition, because the Inquisition's scope is infinite.
What needs to happen for the Inquisition to ever be a remotely fun or remotely viable faction is for GW to step back on their policy. Properly acknowledge that certain factions, most namely the Inquisition, should be made with advanced modellers with an eye for customization in mind. Make some core kits, but market them as a basis for converting and combining with other GW products. You could even twist it as a throwback to earlier eras to draw on the nostalgia factor.
I feel like this would be easily covered by a special rule. Give Acolytes a mid range PPM, a human stat line, a laspistol, the freedom to be modeled with any equipment, and a rule like "In each turn the Acolyte may enhance the hit roll, wound roll, armor save, damage, range, number of attacks, etc by a total of plus whatever. This represents the flexibility of the Inquisition's elite training and esoteric arsenal." One turn they could all produce vibroblades, the next turn magnetic breaching charges, the next some ridiculous hand cannon, and so on. You might need BS2+ to hit some infiltrators one turn and S5 melee to beat down a monster the next. The player (and the Inquisitor) has a true jack of all trades warband and we can all use our funkiest models.
I have always loved the Inquisition for 40k, one of the best backgrounds and model ranges...(includes all of the armies you can use with them of course).
As all of you know, playing them has been much tougher. I don't think I have ever beat anyone with them, (this is of course because I play more casual and I build for theme over power).
Right now, I am playing a 2000 point list:
x2 Blackstars with x3 Inquisitors in Terminator armor in each Blackstar (Theme build)
Greyfax with x6 Acolytes
Vindicare & Culexus Assassin
Palidin Knight Lord of War
I am seriously looking at replacing the Knight with a Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight armor. Group is currently playing a lot of big stuff: Knights, Magnus, Lord of Change, Blood Thirsters and Rouboute etc
Is there anything you can suggest that can be added like a Grey Knight, Space Marine........DeathWatch, Chaos model that can be played that fits into an Inquisitor theme and makes it a little more competitive?
Codex released not as a standalone thing, but something close to imperial agents. HOWEVER:
Rules wishlisting:
Not expanded units, but simply a rule similar to "authority of the inquisition" that allows inquisitorial units to not count against other factions for the purposes of battle forging. This would make embedding inqusitors and specialist acolyte units easy to integrate with other imperial armies as it should be.
Unit wishlisting:
Inqusitors regain power armor and a wider weapon selection, make the 'default' wargear match the currently sold inquisitor model to satisfy the "codex matches model" clause.
Acolytes get a much wider arsenal, and the ability to take carapace and PA back, but the "default" wargear matches the kit (preferably some new DW style box) edit: bonus points here if there are rules for some of the more exotic stuff in the necromunda boxes, like combi-needlers
retain quarry and the ability to jack transports, and the army would be in the best place it's been since 2nd ed.
Codex released not as a standalone thing, but something close to imperial agents. HOWEVER:
Rules wishlisting:
Not expanded units, but simply a rule similar to "authority of the inquisition" that allows inquisitorial units to not count against other factions for the purposes of battle forging. This would make embedding inqusitors and specialist acolyte units easy to integrate with other imperial armies as it should be.
Unit wishlisting:
Inqusitors regain power armor and a wider weapon selection, make the 'default' wargear match the currently sold inquisitor model to satisfy the "codex matches model" clause.
Acolytes get a much wider arsenal, and the ability to take carapace and PA back, but the "default" wargear matches the kit (preferably some new DW style box) edit: bonus points here if there are rules for some of the more exotic stuff in the necromunda boxes, like combi-needlers
retain quarry and the ability to jack transports, and the army would be in the best place it's been since 2nd ed.
I do wish they would expand the rule, to make it so that dedicated transports don't break the inquisition faction
Inquisitor detachments can take Tempestus Scions as troops, they gain the ordo re-roll bonuses and authority of the inquisition but lose the tempestus doctrine and the AM orders. Would this be cool?
What do people think of the Inquisitorial Land Raider Proteus?
I've built an Ordo Hereticus conclave list (that probably should be a lot smaller) around an Inquisitor Lord of my own fluff (but using Katerina Greyfax's rules & model), and I want her to ride around in a Land Raider Proteus. Is it any good? Should I run it with a Storm Trooper Battalion for fluff? What's the story with it?
I'm going to leave the Land Raider question alone, because I don't have my book handy to look at it right now.
That said, since we're talking updates I'm going to say that I'm not going to be shocked if GW gives us Tempestus Scions as our troop choice. The Telepathica got entries in the Guard codex, and with us lacking a troop choice of our own, I could see them giving us the in-lore go-to for Inquisitorial personal armies. That could put Acolytes as the personal retinue/bodyguards of our Inquisitor.
Hopefully this means the Tempestus guys would get <Quarry> as well, but who knows what they'll do exactly.
Regardless how they do it, I rather hope the extensive list of transport options gets datasheets in the book proper so I don't need every Imperium book just to field my army due to mixing and matching transports.
In the meantime though I'm going to work on how to turn Yvrainne into an Order Famulous themed Interregator for my Hereticus Inquisitor and figure out how I'm going to do my Inquisitor.
WRT Inquisition and wishlisting in general, it would be cool if they released some kind of "generic human character upgrade" kit that had varied little stuff in it like bionics, doodads, shoulderboards, and weapons that you could use to make more unique IG/AM/AM (Seriously, how did they let there be three factions now named AM?) characters and inquisitors out of. Might even be able to get some use out of such a thing for Stealer Cults/R&H/Chaos Cultists even. That's, like, 6 factions it would be useful for.
As it stands, I have a bunch of the old metal inquisitors, but I recently just scratchbuilt myself one out of a Scion kit, a Dark Angels upgrade sprue for the robed body, a GK force staff, and a singular Kasrkin backpack I just happened to have laying around for some reason. It looks cool, and I have enough crap just laying around that this isn't a problem for me, but for the new or even average player, that's quite inaccessible.
Some kind of proper kit is basically a must at this point. While the army has always been about conversions, without a DW style kit for newer players (or those who want to play the army but don't want to bother with conversions) the army will remain inaccessible to too many people, something I don't think GW ultimately wants. Mostly because if they're going to spend time (and money) working on books for armies I have the feeling they're going to do something to try and support said armies. Because support means more money.
Da-Rock wrote: Would it be possible to run a Demon Host army and if so, would you want to? :-)
Einsenhorn + Demon Host
Arco-flails (three of them in a squad)
Acolyte with plasmas/stormbolters (six)
all cruising around in a repressor.
look! here comes the eversor.
The point is the throw the daemon host and the evesor on a suicide run to tie up whatever valuable. Charge in with the repressor, spill out the arco-flails and maybe a penitent engine for toots.
Fall back with repressor and have acolytes shoot.
I would try to combine it with a Tallern ambush punisher leman russ variant. That way I'd have a small number of models tying up a chunk of his troops while I at least get one round of shooting to clear some chaff.
Always enjoyed them daemonhosts from 4th edition stormtrooper codex days. The radical Inquisition has always been underrated.
Da-Rock wrote: Would it be possible to run a Demon Host army and if so, would you want to? :-)
Not really. They're simply awful in all respects as units, and offer nothing of value in a way that you can cogently build a list around. Eisenhorn's Daemonhost is a step in the right direction, but it's not something you can build an army around, especially since it lacks a turn-1 delivery system that assault based units need.
I like the idea of the host being tied to the Inquisitor, but it does present some serious vulnerabilities. Daemonhosts should be able to pull a Morathi when things start to go pear shaped.
...You know, it's really sad thinking about all the options that should be available to the Inquisition, because so much of it has potential for some really interesting, fluffy, and fun gameplay mechanics that no other faction really gets to work with. With every other faction moving more and more towards "here are our characters, here's how to use them how we want you to," the Inquisition is the perfect canvas to coexist in that sphere while allowing others to satisfy the urge to make weird and wonderful armies of "your dudes." A real character centred army developed around more than just tossing out reroll auras, but defining entire playstyles... a man can dream, I guess.
I'm still fiddling around with how I plan to build my army but I'm thinking of something like this (local meta uses PL so I'm not too stressed about points for upgrades):
Hereticus Inquisitor w/ Dominate Power ? on Wargear atm (he's getting a Grynix companion on his base nicked from Yvrainne)
Hereticus Interregator (using Inquisitior rules) converted from Yvrainne to be an Order Famulous Sororitas (thinking Sister of Silence head and sword, and no idea about what to put in her other hand)
1 Squad of 6 Hereticus Alcolytes (almost want to go full plasma to run them like a mini-Hellblaster unit because if they have Quarry they can potentially murder their target in a single turn)
1 Monkey (to support the Alcolytes for when they don't have Quarry to support their shooting)
3 Ogryn (to be converted up from other models to represent Chrono Gladiators, might make these guys Bullgryns with Shields and Power Mauls instead, but I rather like the amount of shooting these guys have too, opinons very much welcome)
10 man Scion Squad (not committed on load out)
10 man Scion Squad (again, still debating load out)
10 man Scion Squad (you guessed it, load out)
Salamander Tanks (for horde control) (up to 3, likely run individually)
I'm considering putting the Alcolytes into a Valkriye or perhaps a Land Speeder, but I haven't committed yet. Also up for consideration is taking a Repressor because it's a big tank that looks like it'd make a nice Inquisitorial vehicle. The Ogryn will loaded up into a Valkryie for sure, just because they need the extra hustle a transport brings and the Valkryie does a good job of providing that.
Now, obviously I've left a fair amount of room for other stuff (and opinions on how to field some things since I'm still getting back into the swing of things), so any opinions would be great! I'm just going to run this as a single detachment of Imperium so I can have more play mixing things up.
So I guess no input about the Land Raider Prometheus then, damn.
I'm not sure how I want my list to be, honestly. Yours sounds solid, Clockwork Zion, but I don't know how big mine should be, if I should include the Land Raider or Valkyrie or Chimera, or really anything...
...it's so disappointing to lack options. I'd make a decision already if any of the options already stood out to me.
I haven't ever played the Prometheus so no input for me unfortunately.
I am using the two Blackstars that have been sitting on my self with a tribunal of Inquisitors in Terminator armor.
I also love the Assassins so I use them a lot. What I need are ideas on a single big man to battle my groups Magnus, Lord of Change, Roboute and Knights. (I am thinking of converting a Wargame Exclusive Chaos lord exclusive mini that is in the chaotic image of Roboute....who I would run as Roboute since they are similar size).
I have considered:
Roboute
Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight armor
Voldus
Kaldor Draigo
The new Custodes HQ
The problem I've seen with the Land Raider is it's <Ordos> models only....which at the moment isn't exactly a massive list of options. Add in that it only holds 10 models (meaning for PL players, like me, you have to pay for models you're not taking to fit two units or Alcolytes, or you're running 1 unit of Alcolytes and up to 4 of the other options) and basically it just doesn't do enough to justify it's points (or power) cost. Paired with a full codex with more options (and a dedicated melee unit that could benefit from bussing up the board, like Crusaders or Death Cult Assassins) it'll likely do well, but right now it's currently being hampered by a lack of good options to run in it.
Which actually brought another thing to my attention: anti-tank. How is everyone currently approaching that since Melta is basically a crapshoot for our Alcolytes?
ClockworkZion wrote: The problem I've seen with the Land Raider is it's <Ordos> models only....which at the moment isn't exactly a massive list of options. Add in that it only holds 10 models (meaning for PL players, like me, you have to pay for models you're not taking to fit two units or Alcolytes, or you're running 1 unit of Alcolytes and up to 4 of the other options) and basically it just doesn't do enough to justify it's points (or power) cost. Paired with a full codex with more options (and a dedicated melee unit that could benefit from bussing up the board, like Crusaders or Death Cult Assassins) it'll likely do well, but right now it's currently being hampered by a lack of good options to run in it.
Which actually brought another thing to my attention: anti-tank. How is everyone currently approaching that since Melta is basically a crapshoot for our Alcolytes?
Alright, good point on the Land Raider, I'll set it aside for now.
And yes, I'm struggling with the same question. Smite spam is about the best we can do, with "interrogators" just being Inquisitor-rule stand ins (since, of course, they don't have their own unit entry ).
Looking at my book last night (and proving I shouldn't post ANYTHING rules related without source material on hand when I do) I noticed I made a mistake: Alcolytes are 1PL per, so 5 costs 5 PL and throwing two squads into a Land Raider is doable, but I'm still not sure how I'd kit them out for the task. Mostly because it's too expensive to use like a drop plasma unit (and a Drop Pod would be better (and a little more hilarious for use of fear, surprise and our many other weapons ) for that task). It practically BEGS for some kind of assault oriented unit, but if we want something in there that could do the task (like Assault Terminators) we have to lose the Ordos rules for the generic Marine LR.
I mean, I'm still getting one (eventually at least), but I'm struggling to see how to make it work.
That said, I'm looking at 10 Astra Militarum Crusaders and a Astra Militarum Priest in a Valkyrie as a fun tool. They can't lay down enough chops to match the DCA, but 30 attacks with power swords can still blender up stuff reasonably well (assuming they get into charge range, since sadly we can't use their AoF to move them into range after disembarking due to the way the rules work (AoF at the start of the movement phase, disembark is either during or at the end of the phase which basically means we can't Grav Chute in and then move and then charge :()). I'm still playing with ideas though. I know I'm ignoring the obvious choices of Marine sourced choppy units but honestly I want to stick to a more mortal list.
*sigh* if Repentia were good, or even halfway decent I'd be putting some Sisters into my army (well ones who have actual rules unlike my Order Famulous conversion project), but they're painfully bad.
Bullgryns still look like a nice choice, but I'm lacking a means to properly get something into melee when it hits the table unless I shove them into a tank and drive it pell-mell towards the enemy lines and hope the dice gods smile favorably. Then again I'm pretty anti-gunline in terms of playstyle and will likely end up playing my Inquisition as a short range shooty army that is supported by melee units (like my Sisters, only squishier).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thinking of Smite Spam, if we really want to be "that guy" we could spam Astra Militarum Primaris Psykers. They're cheaper than Inquisitors. Honestly I wouldn't really go that route, but it's something we can do.
I'll likely have to look at options like bringing in some tanks for my anti-tank. Leman Russes look okay, but I'm kind of thinking that Predators could be okay for the job.
So what I've been stuffing in the Land Raider are:
3 Inquisitors (well, 2 + 1 "interrogator") a Jokaero, for the Land Raider itself (since this actually is 24 shots that benefits and is large enough to hide behind), and Acolytes to taste. Sometimes, if detachment limits are a concern, I'll drop the Interrogator and bring another Acolyte or something, not really sure.
The neato thing about the Land Raider is not only does it get Ordo (meaning Jokaero work on it), but also it gets Quarry, meaning it can re-roll to hit and to wound against Chaos, with the bonus that it ignores cover, so that -1 rend on the heavy bolters is always always doing work.
The issue I am struggling with for anti-tank is I am loathe to bring Leman Russes or any battle tanks. The vision I have for my inquisition is very very character driven, meaning the Warlord's Land Raider is about the only big scary tank that I want. I have a Valkyrie ready to go.
One anti-tank solution I've bought but not tried yet is a Marauder Destroyer from Forge World. It's an aircraft, so it's easy to fluff as the Inquisitor calling in air support from the Imperial Navy using his unquestionable authority, and has 8 Hellstrike missiles (72" range melta weapons), 6 autocannons, and an assault cannon (IIRC, don't have the plans right here in front of me).
The problem with it is: 1) it's a Lord of War, so people get scurred 2) it's 540 points for a T7 vehicle with only 20 wounds (essentially Shoot Me bait) that can't be put in reserve 3) Did I mention it's an easily-killed fire magnet?
I'm in the same boat about putting a lot of stuff into the army actually. I feel like a good Inquisitorial war band has a story behind it which gives it some kind of theme. In my case I'm going with heavy conversions to tap into the less military side of the Imperium and try and get that "undercover" feel for the army. At the same time though, I don't want to completely shoot my own legs off just for the sake of theme, so while theme is important, the underlying focus is still a TAC list I can put down and have a reasonably good time with and not worry about being tabled with constantly.
ClockworkZion wrote: I'm in the same boat about putting a lot of stuff into the army actually. I feel like a good Inquisitorial war band has a story behind it which gives it some kind of theme. In my case I'm going with heavy conversions to tap into the less military side of the Imperium and try and get that "undercover" feel for the army. At the same time though, I don't want to completely shoot my own legs off just for the sake of theme, so while theme is important, the underlying focus is still a TAC list I can put down and have a reasonably good time with and not worry about being tabled with constantly.
For sure.
I do think improved ORDO rules could do this (why do Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus match so much? I'd make Ordo Hereticus specialize against units with the Imperium keyword, since they usually hunt heretics / fallen marines / fallen guard who have recently turned and still probably use Imperial doctrines and equipment...) and Psyker.)
I also think Warlord Traits could help, especially if they do the late-7th edition version where an Inquisitor could be a sort of mini-Warlord.
Stratagems would be the army's strong-suite, if I had my 'druthers, since they don't really scale with the army's components (so a small Inquisition detachment could unlock all kinds of whacky stratagems). An example might be The Authority of the Rosette: Use this stratagem before the battle; any Imperium detachment of your choice becomes an Inquisition detachment and gains the Ordo and Quarry rules. Or something.
ClockworkZion wrote: I'm in the same boat about putting a lot of stuff into the army actually. I feel like a good Inquisitorial war band has a story behind it which gives it some kind of theme. In my case I'm going with heavy conversions to tap into the less military side of the Imperium and try and get that "undercover" feel for the army. At the same time though, I don't want to completely shoot my own legs off just for the sake of theme, so while theme is important, the underlying focus is still a TAC list I can put down and have a reasonably good time with and not worry about being tabled with constantly.
For sure.
I do think improved ORDO rules could do this (why do Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus match so much? I'd make Ordo Hereticus specialize against units with the Imperium keyword, since they usually hunt heretics / fallen marines / fallen guard who have recently turned and still probably use Imperial doctrines and equipment...) and Psyker.)
I also think Warlord Traits could help, especially if they do the late-7th edition version where an Inquisitor could be a sort of mini-Warlord.
Stratagems would be the army's strong-suite, if I had my 'druthers, since they don't really scale with the army's components (so a small Inquisition detachment could unlock all kinds of whacky stratagems). An example might be The Authority of the Rosette: Use this stratagem before the battle; any Imperium detachment of your choice becomes an Inquisition detachment and gains the Ordo and Quarry rules. Or something.
I definitely agree that we have a problem right now. We lack options, relics, strategems, and even warlord traits to call our own (I know we got skipped during CA but I feel like that's because they hadn't started working on our stuff yet so we didn't get any beta rules mixed in there). It's hard to make the army feel properly Inquisitorial.
That said, since we're missing so much right now I don't feel too bad about running a Vanguard detachment and only getting 4 CP for my Imperium keyword army. I mean I'm basically only spending it on potential rerolls, so why worry about being greedy for CP? That approach has made things better in terms of options.
That said, I've been kind of stuck on a mental Alcolyte vs Scion thing. Scions run cheaper in CP than Alcolytes and hit with shooting on a 3+ and have grav chute insertion. Alcolytes can run a dakka block for 5 CP (which I want to say is the same cost as the Scions for 5 guys) with all Storm Bolters, which basically (I'm admittedly mentally fudging the math for re-rolls to hit and wound in terms of effective ballistic skill) hit on a 3+ against quarry targets, but basically against anything you don't have quarry against you're worse. Basically it's a tough call to make and I'm probably going to build squads of both kinds to run but having some kind of idea which way I want to take the army would probably help a lot.
This would be a lot easier if Alcolytes were troops (or had a troop equiv) because then I'd just take them and enough dakka to make a Flash Git jealous.
I'm still back and forth on the mini-Hellblaster squad of Alcolytes. On one hand they could potentially delete a <Quarry> target thanks to the re-rolls, they're fairly situational and I'm not 100% sold on plasma (blame my years of running melta I guess) and I'm concerned that there may be a nerf incoming for plasma that'd make such a unit a lot less effective in actual play.
It depends which Ordo you are. Ordo Xenos Quarry is not nearly as good as Ordo Hereticus quarry, which is also better than Ordo Malleus quarry.
Scions are better than every iteration of Acolyte except Ordo Malleus and Ordo Hereticus specifically against their quarry, in which case the Acolytes dramatically outperform scions.
The problem with plasma (or special-weapon-other-than-storm-bolter) acolytes in general is overpayment. 8PPM is already a lot, plus paying BS3+ weapon prices on a BS4+ model is never worth it.
They're only mediocre when firing at Quarry targets, and fairly atrocious firing at anything else. It's awful. It's why I look at options like the Land Raider that at least have tons of bullets and don't pay so much for the Quarry rule (free, for the Inquisition land raider versus its counterpart in the Astartes).
I use Scions for the rank and file normally and usually refer to them as "Inquisitorial Stormtroopers" just a bit more loudly than needed.
Honestly, I don't really have a use-case for Acolytes other than 1 man squads to backfill my deployment zone so that enemies cannot deep strike in it. I had 6 with my GK in the last game I played that I measured out to cover everything that my GK and Taurox weren't already blocking off. Kept some Harlequin bikes from getting the drop on me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, now that I'm thinking more about it, I think the best use of Acolytes are to fill empty spots on vehicles for OTHER armies. It's not five space marines in a razorback, it's five of the Emperor's vaunted and chosen angels of death with their one guy with a special weapon... and Steve the Acolyte. Just a couple more points than a plain space marine would be with weapon in hand.
daedalus wrote: I use Scions for the rank and file normally and usually refer to them as "Inquisitorial Stormtroopers" just a bit more loudly than needed.
Honestly, I don't really have a use-case for Acolytes other than 1 man squads to backfill my deployment zone so that enemies cannot deep strike in it. I had 6 with my GK in the last game I played that I measured out to cover everything that my GK and Taurox weren't already blocking off. Kept some Harlequin bikes from getting the drop on me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, now that I'm thinking more about it, I think the best use of Acolytes are to fill empty spots on vehicles for OTHER armies. It's not five space marines in a razorback, it's five of the Emperor's vaunted and chosen angels of death with their one guy with a special weapon... and Steve the Acolyte. Just a couple more points than a plain space marine would be with weapon in hand.
This makes me very sad though, as I'd like acolytes to be a useful core or at least useful as Inquisitorial bodyguards - meaning someone running a character focused army like mine would benefit.
I'm secretly hoping they take down the 1 wound FAQ during the March FAQ cycle.
Unit1126PLL wrote:It depends which Ordo you are. Ordo Xenos Quarry is not nearly as good as Ordo Hereticus quarry, which is also better than Ordo Malleus quarry.
Scions are better than every iteration of Acolyte except Ordo Malleus and Ordo Hereticus specifically against their quarry, in which case the Acolytes dramatically outperform scions.
The problem with plasma (or special-weapon-other-than-storm-bolter) acolytes in general is overpayment. 8PPM is already a lot, plus paying BS3+ weapon prices on a BS4+ model is never worth it.
They're only mediocre when firing at Quarry targets, and fairly atrocious firing at anything else. It's awful. It's why I look at options like the Land Raider that at least have tons of bullets and don't pay so much for the Quarry rule (free, for the Inquisition land raider versus its counterpart in the Astartes).
Currently my focus is a Hereticus Inquisitor, but if Xenos make an upswing locally I may need to build a second army (maybe one that has the forces a little more military to give it a different feel from my Hereticus one).
daedalus wrote:I use Scions for the rank and file normally and usually refer to them as "Inquisitorial Stormtroopers" just a bit more loudly than needed.
Honestly, I don't really have a use-case for Acolytes other than 1 man squads to backfill my deployment zone so that enemies cannot deep strike in it. I had 6 with my GK in the last game I played that I measured out to cover everything that my GK and Taurox weren't already blocking off. Kept some Harlequin bikes from getting the drop on me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, now that I'm thinking more about it, I think the best use of Acolytes are to fill empty spots on vehicles for OTHER armies. It's not five space marines in a razorback, it's five of the Emperor's vaunted and chosen angels of death with their one guy with a special weapon... and Steve the Acolyte. Just a couple more points than a plain space marine would be with weapon in hand.
I disagree, but mostly because it seems like a cumbersome way to use them unless you're just trying to fill Elite slots cheaply for a Brigade detachment. I feel like they have a use, even if it's just a dedicated character hunter. I'm still in the planning stages though so my opinion is theoretical at most.
Unit1126PLL wrote:This makes me very sad though, as I'd like acolytes to be a useful core or at least useful as Inquisitorial bodyguards - meaning someone running a character focused army like mine would benefit.
I'm secretly hoping they take down the 1 wound FAQ during the March FAQ cycle.
I don't think we're getting any buffs in the FAQ honestly. I'm just hoping we don't get restrictions to our transport vehicles options. But that's the Sisters player in me speaking.
This makes me very sad though, as I'd like acolytes to be a useful core or at least useful as Inquisitorial bodyguards - meaning someone running a character focused army like mine would benefit.
I'm secretly hoping they take down the 1 wound FAQ during the March FAQ cycle.
Yeah, that would make me happy.
I have mixed feelings about acolytes thematically. I felt like they were much more characterful back in 3rd when they were the Inquisitor-in-training that went in the Inquisitor's freakshow retinue. Then 5th came along and, while they got awesome in terms of flexibility and whatnot, I felt like they just became squads of highly configurable guardsmen, and that kind of lost some of that character feel to me. Not to mention that the only builds I ever saw of them even then was flak armor and maybe a bolter.
If I was 100% wishlisting, I'd make inquisitors more expensive, make their stats significantly better (+1 to hit in either melee or shooting would go a long way), and give them their power armor option back. Then I'd turn acolytes into an elite character that has the same level of customization as the inq with maybe a bodyguard rule for when they're standing near the inq. Maybe they even get a stat boost from being next to the inq too in exchange for being a bit more expensive or something. I don't know. Then I'd bring scions in as troops without the doctrine, but they get the Inquisition rules. It's characterful, and then you can at least make a detachment that's not only Vanguard.
I disagree, but mostly because it seems like a cumbersome way to use them unless you're just trying to fill Elite slots cheaply for a Brigade detachment. I feel like they have a use, even if it's just a dedicated character hunter. I'm still in the planning stages though so my opinion is theoretical at most.
I guess character hunting is a use. I was picturing them with an Inquisitor in a separate Vanguard. 87-119 points + whatever loadout for three to six extra special weapons tucked away in vehicles AND a character with real smite AND +1 CP is really not the worst choice you could make for a marine army.
Da-Rock wrote: I would like to see them give incentive to field a variety of Inquisitors - just to avoid the inevitable everyone playing Power Armor Inquisitors.
Maybe give plain clothes Inquisitors more Psychic abilities vs Power armor and Terminator armor.
That or perhaps a relic that swaps for the basic armour so you have to choose between it and more durability of a better save.
That said, more options all around would be good. So many potential things wasted at the moment because of the nature on the Index armies.
I disagree, but mostly because it seems like a cumbersome way to use them unless you're just trying to fill Elite slots cheaply for a Brigade detachment. I feel like they have a use, even if it's just a dedicated character hunter. I'm still in the planning stages though so my opinion is theoretical at most.
I guess character hunting is a use. I was picturing them with an Inquisitor in a separate Vanguard. 87-119 points + whatever loadout for three to six extra special weapons tucked away in vehicles AND a character with real smite AND +1 CP is really not the worst choice you could make for a marine army.
While true, I'm not building a Marine army.
Though if I did, Red Hunters would likely be at the top of my list. Nice bright red colour and good fluff to pair with an Inquisitor.
I need help with selecting my armies Leader. I need a big figure head with enough power to compensate for the rest of my army's lack of killing power....(I run more for theme).
Can anyone help me with ideas and or comments on my current choices?
Primarch Roboute Guilliman - An over cost in points for getting use of of his 12" Imperial reroll of 1s, but he is a Melee force that can contend with our gaming groups Knights, Magnus and other big dogs.
Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight armor - Better cost and has some cool Psychic abilities. Strong shooty and melee abilities.
The others were Lord Draigo, Voldus and the Custodes HQ. I was also looking at using a chaos looking model for Roboute and play it as my Inquisitors experimenting with an advanced Daemaonhost.
* I guess I should add Inquisitor Karamazov as an option because I can modify a custom version of him. His powers are just ok.
There was an Inquisition/Custodes team-up in Carrion Throne and with the Custodes running around the galaxy I could see them teaming up occasionally with the Inquisition since they have the same level of authority (answering only to the Emperor himself).
What should I run with my Inquisitors? Crusaders? Acolytes? Daemonhosts are bad... and I actually have really awesome primaris psyker and tech priest models.
What should I run with my Inquisitors? Crusaders? Acolytes? Daemonhosts are bad... and I actually have really awesome primaris psyker and tech priest models.
Crusaders can ride in Astra Militarum vehicles now, which makes them more attractive than DCA in terms of keeping your points down (plus, you know, 3++ is still pretty good even on T3). Plus the Taurox looks like a better gun platform for support than the Sororitas Rhino (which DCA can ride in). Alternatively you can put them in a Valkryie.
I like Alcolytes as wound soakers (plus they can be relatively cheap dakka), so I'd probably look at something like 5 Crusaders, 5 Alcolytes with Storm Bolters, Inquisitor and Priest in a Valkyrie or some varient of that mix, and basically drop them in as a block near something I want dead.
EDIT: Anyone else feel like Inquisitors have to be fairly aggressive? All of their weapon options are 24" or less and the psychic powers don't have long ranges if you go that route.
Eisenhorn looks interesting but not too beatsticky, I was more interested in a little bit later in the article when they were talking about open and narrative play:
Of the many soldiers who’ve served alongside Eisenhorn, Godwyn Fischig and Harlon Nayl are among the most memorable and skilled. Fischig is an Adeptus Arbites officer recruited from the same world as Bequin, while Nayl was a bounty hunter, skilled at tracking and taking down prey. Both could be well represented by the datasheet for a Tempestor Prime, though perhaps swapping out weapons for a sturdy combat shotgun for Fischig, and a heavy stubber for Nayl, to represent the kind of high-calibre weapons he prefers.
Shotguns and Heavy Stubbers are DEFINITELY not Tempestor Prime options so it was interesting to see that offered up for casual play. Perchance a hint at some build-your-own-alcolyte rules for the future ala the CA special Land Raider Open Play rules?
Da-Rock wrote: Eisenhorn seems a little too much like the other standard Inquisitors minus the Daemonhost.
Maybe it's just the lack of Psychic spells we have at the moment.
It's likely partly due to psychic powers, and partly to do with the fact no one seems to be allowed to have a 2+ for BS or WS. I guess they feel <Quarry> would be too strong with a 2+?
Which is silly, since most other factions have (far more potent) characters who can easily get 2+/rerolling 1s with little issue and less conditionally.
He’s ok... he’s basically a 2 power psyker for 100pts (but his power choices kinda suck)
His str3 ap-3 dam 1, 4x atk, 2+ to hit sword isn’t going to scare anyone and while his 4+ mortal wound to vehicles grenade is cool it’s 6in isn’t going to be reliable. He does have his quarry which allows reroll a of 1 for hit and wound vs xenos. But he’s overall blah...
The only reason to take him is to have him follow around his demonhost who you also have to pay for (25pts) but is competitively priced.
At str6 toughness 6 wound 5, 4 atk, and +1 to hit (3+), +1 to wound, +1 invul (4++)
Doing 4x str6 -3ap dam1 and a str8 assault 1 -1ap shooting atk that does 3 dam on 5/6 to wound roll. Plus the random demonhost effect. It’s a nice demonhost rules for the cost however If Eisenhorn dies so does the demonhost and Eisenhorn desperately needs an invuln save to not die so easily. If Eisenhorn had a better selection of psychic powers I’d say it’s a decent 125 pt unit with Eisenhorn buffing the demonhost. As he is now he is only useful for narrative games. I don’t see a roll for these 2 models in most armies especially since the demonhost model isn’t even sold anymore.
Fafnir wrote: Which is silly, since most other factions have (far more potent) characters who can easily get 2+/rerolling 1s with little issue and less conditionally.
While true, I still wouldn't be shocked if that was the mentality against it. That or they forget there are other humans in the game with 2+ WS or BS that aren't Marines or Celestine.
Oh, thinking of things: were is my option to have my Inquisitor glanding drugs to keep himself functioning in day to day life and hitting like a truck in combat?
So I am thinking of the following in a list somehow:
Valkyrie w/ lascannon, MRP Chimera w/ 2 Heavy Flamers Inquisitorial Land Raider
Then: At least 3 Inquisitors (a conclave), plus at least one Interrogator each I want some acolytes for theme A jokaero, because I think I can do a neato stand-in one, possibly maybe. Is a proxy-jokaero okay? As some kind of tech priest or something?
I haven't settled on anything else, but there's certainly room in the list. Any thoughts on what I should do? As with everyone, I am struggling a bit with Anti-Tank, and could try my Marauder Bomber or could not. I just wish there was a way to keep it in reserve.
Personally I'm looking at the AoS line to build a "Squat Mechanic" out of (or maybe even several) to stand in for my monkeys.
Conversions on my first squad are coming along, but I did run into a hiccup with what I had planned. I wanted to use the Vanguard arms with Guard legs and the GSC torso. Weeeeelll.... GSC torsos are too thin for those wide Cadian hips (there is a meme there, I'm almost certain of it) so I went with Skitarri legs which fit with some shaving on the front and back. BUUUUT the arms don't fit the wide upper torso so I'm now using the hot shot lasguns from the Scion box (after shaving the shoulder connection so the pads end up flush with the upper bodies). At least the Chaos Warrior helmets (minus horns) fit the GSC torso to give them a neat bucket helmet look.
I can already tell this is going to be an army of freaks (I recall there was a term for an army of basically all penitent nutters for the Ministorum, but I can't recall it because that was years ago, but yes, basically every unit is going to have some kind of weird theme going on like they were drawn from different places and brought together for the sake of killing heretics) and while some of it is just trying to make kits I already have work, it's kind of neat.
I'm thinking of trying to salvage the Vanguard rifles with Empire Greatsword torsos since they might be thin enough (and maybe wide enough for those Cadian legs, if not GSC cult legs it is).
Gladiator Crusaders are on hold while I await shields (need round shields from the Sigmarine kits, getting the ones with the kind of a sunburst pattern because sun rays should be eaiser to remove than some of the other symbols) and Wracks (for heads and vials) which have been out of stock for a while. I'm going to use some bits from Ad Mech as well, mixed with Grey Knight swords (because they have nice one handed swords with an =I= thing going on).
My Inquisitor is built as well, armed with the Death Watch Master's halbred and a cut down arc pistol (took off the top glowy box bit leaving the revolver bottom half) I'm looking at running him as counting as having a Force Halberd and a Combi-melta. It's not the most powerful build possible (I'm sure combi-plasma is better) but the pistol seems more like it'd fire something more akin to melta than plasma in my head, so that's what he's getting pending future option changes. He was kind of an interesting mix of parts by having the Watch Master's head and halberd (which was cut off of the watch master's hand and attached to a Arc Maul hand from the Skitarri box, with pinning), the arc pistol and upper body also being Skitarri (I replaced the Ad Mech symbol with a pressure gauge bit cut off of a Ruststalker backpack so he has a set of gauges in the middle of his chest now), his legs are GSC, as is the backpack he has (which is the GSC one with the antennae and speaker) and he has the Scion Servo Skull (the tail of which is wrapped around the back of the speaker to give it a solid attachment point). I put him on the staircase hero base to make him look a little more imposing (kind of important since he's got a kind of hunched old man look going on) plus it leaves me room to add the Grynix when my Yvrainne order comes in.
After looking at the Sisters of Silence again I'm not sure if I'm really going to use their heads to replace Yvrainne's. I'm still considering options but basically I'm looking at either Dark Eldar (because they have some nice options for choices with hair) or Sigmar Elves (mostly the Wood Elves whose new name I can never spell without looking up so I won't bother trying). Still working out how I'm going to deal with that triangle bit on the front of her torso. Thankfully most of the other stuff I can shave/sand off (I'm likely going to leave the pattern section alone, but I'm also thinking of filling it in with liquid green stuff, smoothing it out and then painting it a different color than the rest of the dress so it looks more like some kind of train).
So yeah....if I do a second army (like, say with Eisenhorn so I can run Ordo Xenos and his cool model) I'm definitely going with less conversions. For one this is a pricy way to build an army (even if I went with bits sites which have gotten stupid expensive and while it definitely gives a very unique feel to the army, it's not a method that's going to make it easy for people to get into this army for sure.
Dear GW: please give us some kind of alcolyte kit in the future!
ClockworkZion wrote: Dear GW: please give us some kind of alcolyte kit in the future!
They have! House Orlock, Esher, and Goliath.
We just need to wait for Arbites now.
While true, I've been finding it harder to convert models with rifles since GW wants to put both hands on the guns instead of just the pistol grip hand. It makes it harder to pair them with different torsos than the standard kit.
Speaking of conversions for the Inquisition.......
I have always disliked Karamazov's model, but I have always liked him. In trying to build a fun list that had big models in it. The best way to fit into a 1500 point army where a Knight Gallant was just too expensive, I did this:
The scaling with a lot of their models doesn't match and it's all I had to use.......I have seen some really cool stuff that is better scaled. I am playing with this because we play heavy on theme in our group.
That's the point though. More power to you if you like it, but it doesn't look at all like anything I would sub Karamazov for, nor something that even tries to attempt to match the faction's aesthetic. If you're going to insist on running that in a 40k game, why not just use it as a Knight?
I did. That's what I wrote above. It was too hard to fit 405 points in my lists.
Karamazov's model is so horrible that this one makes me smile. I like the fact that it is over the top. It fits his lore about Fear etc. I haven't even got half way nor painted it....you must really despise Warmachine.
Yeah, I kinda struggle to manifest ANY emotion about Warmachine whatsoever, and it looks like you just glued a couple 40k bits and a somewhat commissarish looking miniature on top of a vague Mechwarrior rip-off.
AdmiralHalsey wrote: I'm just gonna say that none of the above posts have anything to do with Inquisition Tactics.
I think there's a modelling forum or something, though.
Sorry, my fault for starting this mess. I was just frustrated by how limited newer GW model designs have made conversions (without some SERIOUS work that is).
Moving on, I'm having trouble with Scion special weapon choices. I know plasma is the current hotness (no puns intended), but I keep feeling like GW is going to give it some kind of change to make it less of an automatic choice and thus make other options look better.
Moving on, I'm having trouble with Scion special weapon choices. I know plasma is the current hotness (no puns intended), but I keep feeling like GW is going to give it some kind of change to make it less of an automatic choice and thus make other options look better.
Barring some meta-destroying thing were they make grenade launchers (which marines don't get), flamers (which would basically require a total rewrite), or meltaguns (which need a massive point drop) actually ever worth taking, I don't see this being a thing unless they just double the points on plasma or something to make it that bad by comparison.
The current second-best for Scions is probably the volley gun. It has good range and the S4 is useful without being game-breaking, and on Scions heavy isn't that much of a showstopper in 8th.
GW: the volley gun is how you make a reasonable and well balanced weapon. Do more of that.
Plus the volley gun is a pretty straightforward green stuff conversion to supplement what's in the box. Easier to go big on those than some of the more iconic special weapons.
This might be a little offtopic, but I'm thinking I might finally be ready to try to tackle a Land Raider Prometheus conversion. Anyone have any thoughts on the easiest way to do the heavy bolters?
Looking at one I see:
- Land Raider Crusader sponson
- Razorback gun shroud
- 2 sets of Razorback heavy bolters cut up
That's the fastest/easiest but it's a little expensive and it doesn't include the sensor array and doodads on the actual hull. Anyone think of a cheaper way to do it?
Hey y'all, I'm looking for some ideas on Acolytes. I'm tinkering with adding an Inquisition detachment to my 2k "Sisters + Scions" list to make it a true Witchhunters army. My biggest remaining questions is around Acolyte loadout. Here's the list:
As an addition to the Sisters and Scions, who mostly do their own thing, the Inquisition detachment is intended to provide some denial in the Psychic phase and to increase the punch of the Bullgryns who will run with the Inquisitor (Terrify), the Priest (+1 A), and try to keep up with Celestine (Invulnerable save). I brought the Acolytes to bag an extra CP, but I'm not sure how to use them. With the points I have (not quite 50) I can run 3 pairs without wargear, 3 singles with wargear, or some combination. Should I use them stock as cheap Deep Strike defense, load them with plasma and try to stash them in cover, give them all flamers and sit them on an objective... or ditch them altogether, spend 50 points on something else, and give up the extra CP?
Also, what's Greyfax good at in the Psychic phase? She's mostly for defense, but what can she do from a relatively safe spot in the backfield, probably hanging out with a Canoness, some Retributers, and maybe a handful of Acolytes?
daedalus wrote:This might be a little offtopic, but I'm thinking I might finally be ready to try to tackle a Land Raider Prometheus conversion. Anyone have any thoughts on the easiest way to do the heavy bolters?
Looking at one I see:
- Land Raider Crusader sponson
- Razorback gun shroud
- 2 sets of Razorback heavy bolters cut up
That's the fastest/easiest but it's a little expensive and it doesn't include the sensor array and doodads on the actual hull. Anyone think of a cheaper way to do it?
What I did was use stuff from my bits box.
-The heavy bolters are from Sororitas Immolators (look cool because of the ammo-containers being external).
-Onager Dunecrawler sensor array pods and radar dishes and whatnot, as well as a light, replacing the turreted hull-gun on the Land Raider.
So I'm bringing Greyfax and a generic Inquisitor with power maul plus 3 Acolytes for a cheap little Vanguard alongside Sisters and Scions.
For psychic powers I'm going with Terrify for the Inquisitor to run up with 3 Bullgryns, 2 Acolytes, and a Priest. They're looking for high T or multi wound targets to smash with their mauls so Terrify might occasionally be more useful than Smite vs. Tau shenanigans or big guns.
Greyfax is less obvious. She'll be camping the back line and maybe lining up shots on advancing psykers when I play TSons or similar. Mostly she's there to deny, but she might get off an offensive power here and there. Should I take Terrify again in case Celestine or the Bullgryns make a late game charge within 18 inches, or should I take Dominate on case I can blow up somebody's plasma pistol or have to fight a character tank? Both are range 18, but I feel like a friendly charge is more reliably going to happen in that range. Is anyone getting anything out of Dominate?
daedalus wrote: This might be a little offtopic, but I'm thinking I might finally be ready to try to tackle a Land Raider Prometheus conversion. Anyone have any thoughts on the easiest way to do the heavy bolters?
Looking at one I see:
- Land Raider Crusader sponson
- Razorback gun shroud
- 2 sets of Razorback heavy bolters cut up
That's the fastest/easiest but it's a little expensive and it doesn't include the sensor array and doodads on the actual hull. Anyone think of a cheaper way to do it?
You might want to look for the Twin Heavy Bolters from the Immolator kit instead.
They are sized a little better for what you are trying to do, and no one uses them (so you can find the bits cheap.)
MacPhail wrote: So I'm bringing Greyfax and a generic Inquisitor with power maul plus 3 Acolytes for a cheap little Vanguard alongside Sisters and Scions.
For psychic powers I'm going with Terrify for the Inquisitor to run up with 3 Bullgryns, 2 Acolytes, and a Priest. They're looking for high T or multi wound targets to smash with their mauls so Terrify might occasionally be more useful than Smite vs. Tau shenanigans or big guns.
Greyfax is less obvious. She'll be camping the back line and maybe lining up shots on advancing psykers when I play TSons or similar. Mostly she's there to deny, but she might get off an offensive power here and there. Should I take Terrify again in case Celestine or the Bullgryns make a late game charge within 18 inches, or should I take Dominate on case I can blow up somebody's plasma pistol or have to fight a character tank? Both are range 18, but I feel like a friendly charge is more reliably going to happen in that range. Is anyone getting anything out of Dominate?
Dominate is terrible. It sounds good on paper, but then you need to remember that it requires moving a T3 character with no invulnerable save within a chargeable 18" of the enemy character (who'll likely have their own bodyguard in front), all for what usually amounts to little more than a single plasma pistol shot, as most characters with notable weapons tend to be close-combat beatsticks anyway, and one attack melee attack is rarely going to do much spectacular.
I'm at the point where I'm thinking GW should just squat the Inquisition and other soup-based factions (Ynnari) as an army, and bring them back when they actually have a well thought out idea for how they want them to work as factions. Because it's pretty clear that GW hasn't really put a lot of thought into how they should be working, and the treatment we have been getting feels like a constant kick in the head. I'd rather they admit that they're in a bad place, and remove them from the game than to pretend like everything's okay.
Hopefully we get a fix whenever they do an Imperial Agents codex. I hope that happens, as I did recently pick up Eisenhorn and would love to be able to use him.
I'm experimenting with a low commitment Vanguard... Greyfax, Inquisitor with Maul, and three Acolytes. Greyfax hangs back to deny, and the other Inquisitor runs with a Bullgryn bomb. It isn't game breakingly good, but it's fun, and a reasonable way to get some Smite and Deny in my list.
I run a supreme command detachment of 3 Inquisitors, one of which is Eisenhorn. The other two I typically leave base inquisitors and take combi-plasma/maul
It’s a shame the stats are currently so bad because modeling wise with all the Necromunda plastics, Admech and Scions, there has never been a better time to create acolytes, servitors, demonhosts, etc. Acolytes should be 4-5 points and all weapons need to be made at AM prices. The base Inquisitor should get a Commissar-type price adjustment also…
).
) for that task). It practically BEGS for some kind of assault oriented unit, but if we want something in there that could do the task (like Assault Terminators) we have to lose the Ordos rules for the generic Marine 
