Here are unit descriptions and opinions by Dakka users. PM me if you have a write up you want me to add and I will add it.

For another take check out the 1d4chan tactica page.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Tyranids(8E)

Special Rules

Synapse:
You automatically pass all morale tests if you are within Synapse range (typically 8" but 12" for certain models)

Instinctive Behaviour:
If a unit is not in Synapse range, they can only shoot the nearest enemy unit and can only charge the nearest enemy unit.

Shadow In The Warp:
Enemy psykers who attempt to manifest a power while within 8" of a Tyranid unit with this ability subtract 1 from the result of their psychic test.

Psychic Powers:
Tyranids have access to a number of psychic powers. They can use Smite to dish out mortal wounds, Catalyst to give FNP to a unit, cast The Horror to provide -1 to hit on an enemy unit (in both CC and shooting) or Onslaught to allow a unit to advance and charge in the same turn. They can also use GSC units, which give them an additional psychic tree with benefits such as Mind Control, allowing you to shoot an enemy model as if it were your own. Mass Hypnosis is the same thing as The Horror from Kids but it also forces the target unit to fight last and stops them from firing overwatch. Lastly, Might From Beyond (the alliteration is real) gives +1 str and +1 attack to a unit. Crazy!

HQ


Broodlord: (by Unyielding Hunger)


Old One Eye: (by Unyielding Hunger)


Hive Tyrant: (by Unyielding Hunger)


Tervigon: (by Unyielding Hunger)


Tyranid Prime: (by Unyielding Hunger)
Changes

The Swarmlord: (by Unyielding Hunger)


Malanthrope: (by luke1705)


TROOPS


Genestealers: (by luke1705)


Hormagants: (by luke1705)


Ripper Swarms: (by luke1705)


Termagants: (by)


Tyranid Warrior: (by Astmeister)
Changes
Summary

ELITES


Deathleaper: (by luke1705)


Haruspex: (by)


Hive Guard: (by luke1705)


Lictor: (by luke1705)


Maleceptor: (by Astmeister)
[spoilerThe Maleceptor is also in the row of one of the most improved units of all Tyranids.
Is it viable: Yes!
Is it necessary: No!

The Maleceptor is suprisingly one of the most durable MCs in the Tyranid arsenal. It gained a 3+ Save and T7 and still has its 5++. This can actually be a big deal, since most anti Monster/Tank weapons will wound models with T7/8 equally well, but will get pissed about the 3+/5++ combination.
The speed is en par with the other MCs from Tyranids and it can almost always advance, since it is just using Psi most of the time. This makes it reasonably fast and slightly faster than the rest of the MCs.
With lucky dice rolls you can even do stuff in melee with it! You could kill a medium tank in a single round of combat with S7 and D6 Wounds.
The only real reason to take the Maleceptor is its Psi abilities. The Nova ability is imho a bit underwhelming, just doing 1 Mortal Wound to mostly everything in range. It has several problems:
- very low range
- just 1 wound
- you cannot use psi in the same turn
It will not be very game changing and is very hard to apply to more than one unit at a time.

Maybe the hidden jewel of the Maleceptor is its ability to use psi powers with +1 to cast! This means that you have roughly a 27% chance of doing D6 Mortal wounds on the nearest enemy, which you can probably choose since the Maleceptor is quite fast. When you then use a CP to reroll the wound dice, this can be downright brutal. Remember that it is of course also very hard to dispell a high result on smite.
I think that they can really be major damage dealer if you bring them in pairs or even 3 Maleceptors. However, you have to remember that Psi can always be dispelled and is quite unreliable. Couple this with the high cost of the Maleceptor and you have a unit which can be a bit of a gamble.
Unfortunately the Maleceptor does not contribute too much to the army, which we absolutely need. He can be nice, if you have to take down flyers e.g. but it is not clear to me if he would perform better than 4+ Zoanthropes. And these I would also not consider really necessary in most lists. [/spoiler]

Pyrovore: (by Astmeister)


The Red Terror: (by)


Tyrant Guard: (by luke1705)


Venomthrope: (by)


Zoanthrope & Neurothrope: (by)


FAST ATTACKS


Dimachaeron: (by luke1705)


Gargoyles: (by)


Harpy: (by)


Hive Crone: (by Astmeister)


Mieotic Spore Mines: (by Astmeister)


Mucolid Spore Pods: (by)


Ravener: (by)


Tyranid Shrikes: (by)


Sky-slasher Swarm: (by)


Spore Mine Clusters: (by)


HEAVY SUPPORTS


Biovore: (by Astmeister)


Carnifex: (by Astmeister)


Exocrine: (by luke1705)


Mawloc: (by)



Stone Crusher Carnifex (by luke1705)


Trygon/Trygon Prime: (by luke1705)


Tyrannofex (by)


TRANSPORTS


Tyrannocyte: (by)


FORTIFICATIONS


Sporocyst: (by)


LORDS OF WAR


Barbed Hierodule: (by)


Harridan: (by)


Hierophant: (by)


Scythed Hierodule: (by)



For all those wishing to add to certain parts of this tactica, please PM me the review and I will go ahead and put it in.

-added by request. Will update as requests come in.-

I like firing heavy 40 on a hive out of the Tyrannofex. Also, Carnifexes are beautiful.

CQC Tyranids are MUCH better than their shooting counterpart

So I have a rules question already. I think I know how I'd play it (not in my favor, sadly), but I'm curious what others think.

Mawloc's Terror From the Deep rule says he can't charge the same turn he uses it. The Onslaught psychic power says that among other effects, the target unit can also charge this turn. So which is it?

Onslaught would specifically refer to charging after you have advanced, not charging after you Terror from the Deep. So a unit with Onslaught active can move and advance, shoot, and charge (whereas normally if you advance you can't shoot or charge). Since the Mawloc is ineligible to charge from a rule saying he can't the turn he arrived (not ineligible because he advanced), Onslaught will do nothing to him.

Am I missing something or do Biovores now require line of sight to their target?

 Telly wrote:
Am I missing something or do Biovores now require line of sight to their target?

They do, but they just hand out mortal wounds from 4 feet away so im pretty cool with it.


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A trygon tunnel can bring a single unit with it. 3 canifex in a brood can pop out of a tunnel with a trygon. Good fething luck everybody else.

It would be cool if into worked that way, but it doesn't....

 Lance845 wrote:

A trygon tunnel can bring a single unit with it. 3 canifex in a brood can pop out of a tunnel with a trygon. Good fething luck everybody else.

Sweet baby Jesus if it worked like that, that is literally all I would take. But no - only troops choices.

But since our genestealers lost the ability to infiltrate, they need to go along for the ride. I need to make sure that you can ACTUALLY fit 20 stealers somewhere around the Trygon....but if you can...oh my the things that will occur. Only shame is that someone had the foresight not to allow them to buy adrenal glands.....what a loser

I think Lictors are still strong harassment units, also with the potential to DS and charge turn one

Old One Eye is so much better than he used to be, and his two closest friends, carnifex #1 and carnifex #2, both greatly benefit from his +1 to hit roll. I think I'll be running my Carnifexen as melee monsters, just scytal, crab claws and adrenal glands. And of course, I won't run them without OOE (he says literally moments after inserting a random carnifex into his 2k list to be played tomorrow or Friday)

Random sidenote, is there such a thing that is the OPPOSITE of a distraction carnifex? I have 6 Tyrant guard, the swarmlord and 2 melee flying hive tyrants all standing right next to my lone Carnifex (more or less) for my 2k list (and that is actually all that I'll deploy on the table). What do you think people will shoot lmao?

So this goes without saying, but genestealers in a Trygon tunnel (regardless of the final unit size) is a brutal combo. Both have the opportunity for a turn 1 charge, and both are bad news bears. The only thing I can't figure out is how to bring the Broodlord along for the ride (so despite me having 40 stealers in my 2k list, I have zero broodlords because I don't want to take a third trygon to use exclusively for a broodlord taxi). I know he's good on his own but it just felt like too much.

Something that I think a lot of people are going to be doing (whether their tyrants are walking or not) is doubling down on tyrant guard protection duties. Unlike in 7th, a single unit of tyrant guard can protect multiple hive tyrants. In that vein, one thing that we will have to figure out is how wound allocation works if two units of tyrant guard are protecting the same hive tyrant (also a possibility). I think we can actually do a little bit of wound shenanigans in this case, having one unit take the attacks from one enemy unit, and another taking attacks from a second unit. Finally, on the note of tyrant guard, they are a great unit to cast catalyst on (assuming you have more than one tyrant to protect). That way, they can take their save vs the mortal wound they receive, and all tyrants receive effective added durability.

Tervigon Spam looks like it will be a legit thing again..

It looks like they can pump out 10 termis a turn at no extra cost

With the Trygon, it does say Troop Unit, but them 20 Genestealers, that pop up 9" away run then charge (because they can) will be great


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Okay playing with mock lists.. based on what I have painted

When doing matched points do you need to pay for the model and listed weapon they come with? or only if you are swapping the weapon?


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I also notice the leaked rules don't have what tox sacs and Adreanal glands actually do

People are assuming that you need points to spawn new termagaunt squads but RAW I dont see anything indicating that. Summoning may require points spent premptively but nowhere in the description of the terma spawning ability does it say that it is a summon.

On an unrelated note, I love that onsalught basically makes the 9" DS requirement meaningless. Pretty much any DS unit we have can advance and then charge with onslaught. Hell even the trygon itself can advance and then charge since subterrainian assault doesnt say it cant charge the turn it arrives. Put genestealers inside the tunnel, cast onslaught on the trygon, advance and charge with the genestealers and then advance and charge with the trygon for a 1-2 punch.


Adrenal glands give +1" to advance and charge rolls, toxin sacks inflict a mortal wound when an attack rolls a 6 to wound.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
People are assuming that you need pointd to spawn new termagaunt squads but RAW I dont see anything indicating that. Summoning may require points spent premptively but nowhere in the description of the terma spawning ability does it say that it is a summon.

It's under Reinforcements in the Matched Play sections. Abilities that add units to your army must be paid for by points you've set aside.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
People are assuming that you need points to spawn new termagaunt squads but RAW I dont see anything indicating that. Summoning may require points spent premptively but nowhere in the description of the terma spawning ability does it say that it is a summon.

On an unrelated note, I love that onsalught basically makes the 9" DS requirement meaningless. Pretty much any DS unit we have can advance and then charge with onslaught. Hell even the trygon itself can advance and then charge since subterrainian assault doesnt say it cant charge the turn it arrives. Put genestealers inside the tunnel, cast onslaught on the trygon, advance and charge with the genestealers and then advance and charge with the trygon for a 1-2 punch.


Adrenal glands give +1" to advance and charge rolls, toxin sacks inflict a mortal wound when an attack rolls a 6 to wound.

Does onslaught override the restrictions DS has on moving and advancing? DS says you are not allowed to move or advance that turn, but continue as normal otherwise, so can shoot/charge etc.

Does the biovores spore mines count as a new unit? Will that have to be taken into account in reinforcement points?

Spawning new units of termagaunts will require reinforcement points, but replenishing lost models in existing units will be free.

Crons had a similar conundrum with RP, but since we aren't making new units, just replacing models we have already paid for, it doesnt require reinforcement points.

It also seems to me like the Haruspex is also really good now? Am I taking Crazy Pills?

Trygons don't DS, tho. They Subterranean Assault. They can freely charge up out their hole.

The Mucolids specifically don't count for Reinforcement points. Odd if the normal spores did.


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Spores both say they don't use reinforcement points.

Am I reading this right that a Carnifex gets 4 Deathspitters with slimer maggots, for 114 points total?

114 points gets T7 W8 AS3+, fights reasonably well against hordes in close combat with the thresher, and shoots 12 times at S7 AP-1.

It doesn't degrade when taking damage.

Someone will field a dozen of those guys. They even operate independently even when you take them in units of 3.

The only thing I'm wondering is if the key to points efficiency is actually only taking 1 wound models. That way you deny all of your opponents' weapons the power that he paid points for. Likewise, blast and template weapons do a lot less hits than they could've potentially done before. 1 wound infantry hordes with untargetable characters hiding between might be the most competitive choice.

 Therion wrote:
Am I reading this right that a Carnifex gets 4 Deathspitters with slimer maggots, for 114 points total?

114 points gets T7 W8 AS3+, fights reasonably well against hordes in close combat with the thresher, and shoots 12 times at S7 AP-1.

It doesn't degrade when taking damage.

Someone will field a dozen of those guys. They even operate independently even when you take them in units of 3.

The only thing I'm wondering is if the key to points efficiency is actually only taking 1 wound models. That way you deny all of your opponents' weapons the power that he paid points for. Likewise, blast and template weapons do a lot less hits than they could've potentially done before. 1 wound infantry hordes with untargetable characters hiding between might be the most competitive choice.

Cheaper to take the Bone Mace if you're only wanting the dakkafex build totaling 109
Also bio-plasma's another decent additional 'gun' for it's cost, 118 with Mace, 123 with Thresher

Wow Most Everything looks playable. Even a Tyranid Prime with Twin Bone sabers might be a usable unit. I know I will be running some Bio Plasma puking Twin Scythe Carnifexen for old times sake, and I can expect them to make some contact.

Now I need to read up on the new detachments to see how to build a force..Battalion? Allies? (GSC/ Astra Militari?) might be fun to have a Russ popping off or an Earthshaker...

How are you all getting 4 Bio gun options for the Tyrant / Carnifex?

Deshkar wrote:
How are you all getting 4 Bio gun options for the Tyrant / Carnifex?

Tyrant and Fex both have 'two pairs of monstrous scything talons' (a.k.a four ScyTal arms on the model)
You can replace a pair of monstrous scything talons with an item from the Monstrous Bio-cannons list
As a single option under that you have 'Two deathspitters w/ slimer maggots' or 'Two devourers w/ brainleech worms'
You can swap out both pairs of ScyTal for these dual guns so in total 4, 1 for each arm
You have to pay for each of these guns separately though (or at least that's what is assumed so far), so rather than paying the cost of a pair of ScyTals you have to pay 2x a gun cost to swap out just 1

Invul wrote:
Trygons don't DS, tho. They Subterranean Assault. They can freely charge up out their hole.

Wouldn't matter even if they did. You can freely charge from deep strike reserves, although usually you're looking at a 9" charge

You can't advance and move though, even with catalyst

Oh boy. A blank slate.

At first glance;

20 genestealers popping out of a Trygon hole and being supported with psychic abilities looks absolutely insane. upwards of 80 attacks means they are looking at a TON of damage. Not to mention the Trygon looks like it can lay the smackdown too.

Swarmlord looks like the better Hive Tyrant these days. Not really sure how he's going to stack up survivabilty wise though. I can't really gauge how much multi-wound damage is going to be out there yet. His force move thing looks amazing, and he's probably the best fighter 1v1 in our codex.

Biovores. First impression. "WTF! I need LOS now!? Only 1 kill per turn!? GARBAGE". Second Impression. "Oh, 24 points.....72 for a unit of three for 1.5 mortal wounds per turn seems pretty solid actually, you just need the right target!" These aren't the long range AOE biovores of old, these are our snipers now.

Exocrine. S7, D2, AP-3, 4+ to hit and Heavy 6?. First impression was MEH, until I read all the rules together. +1BS and double-tap for standing still? Sweet baby jesus. This might be the heavy infantry/medium vehicle killer of our army. It feels like a triple lascannon predator to me almost.

Tyrannofex. Extremely high potential damage, but...needing both those hits really removes a lot of consistency.

Tervigon. If you need to spend reinforcement points = garbage. Free termigants? Then it's really good. By the spirit of the reinforcement rules, I think we have to pay, therefore, garbage.

That brings me to psychic powers. The rule of one SUCKS SO HARD. Basically, more than 1 or 2 psykers is going to be pointless unless you just want to spam smite all day.

Which brings me to Zoanthropes. Dead. Why would you ever take a unit of more than one? Better to take 3 units of 1 and get 3 smites off than 1 unit of 3 and only get 1 power off. Smite being limited range and crap against vehicles also sucks. Having to go to a 4 man unit to get D3 more mortal wounds is just not worth it IMO.

Termigants....devourers....8 points each, 3 S4 shots at 18". That's insane right? 240 points gets upwards of 90 boltgun shots with an effective 24" reach. Hell, with the new wound tables and vehicles you can reliably chip 4-5 wounds off of T7 3+ save vehicles with this unit....screw lascannons! We Orks now guys.

Raveners. That's a lot of attacks with twin-scything talons, and T4 W3, 12" move is pretty solid with psychic support.

Haruspex. Best melee creature for Nids now? Pricey, and I'm not 100% sure how the maw attacks work (D3 to hit for each attack with it, but can it score more than 1 hit? So 12 hits at most, or 4, but 4 really likely to hit?), generates extra attacks, hits hard.....damn, not bad over all.

Trygon. Most of the reason to take this guy is the tunnel IMO. I mean, he's a monster himself, but that tunnel....phew.

I'll look over the rest of the units later and do some reading, but that's just my initial impressions.

 Carnage43 wrote:
Biovores. First impression. "WTF! I need LOS now!? Only 1 kill per turn!? GARBAGE". Second Impression. "Oh, 24 points.....72 for a unit of three for 1.5 mortal wounds per turn seems pretty solid actually, you just need the right target!" These aren't the long range AOE biovores of old, these are our snipers now.

Tervigon. If you need to spend reinforcement points = garbage. Free termigants? Then it's really good. By the spirit of the reinforcement rules, I think we have to pay, therefore, garbage.

Which brings me to Zoanthropes. Dead. Why would you ever take a unit of more than one? Better to take 3 units of 1 and get 3 smites off than 1 unit of 3 and only get 1 power off. Smite being limited range and crap against vehicles also sucks. Having to go to a 4 man unit to get D3 more mortal wounds is just not worth it IMO.

Termigants....devourers....8 points each, 3 S4 shots at 18". That's insane right? 240 points gets upwards of 90 boltgun shots with an effective 24" reach. Hell, with the new wound tables and vehicles you can reliably chip 4-5 wounds off of T7 3+ save vehicles with this unit....screw lascannons! We Orks now guys.

'Fraid the biovores are 36 each as they have to pay for the gun
From what we gather creating new units costs reinforcement points, however if we're replenishing lost gaunts already in a unit there's nothing saying that costs
Zoanthrope now have a unit limit of 3, same as Venoms, so its more a case of why not take 4
The devilgaunts (devourers) hasn't changed, though the Hail of Living Ammunition rule will be a boost

opu wrote:

From what we gather creating new units costs reinforcement points, however if we're replenishing lost gaunts already in a unit there's nothing saying that costs
The devilgaunts (devourers) hasn't changed, though the Hail of Living Ammunition rule will be a boost

I'm excited to try a 30 strong squad with 20 Devilgants, 10 stock Termagants, and Tervigon support. 60 shots (discounting the Termagants), reroll 1s to hit and to wound, and each turn you can regenerate the 10 Termagants if the unit comes under fire. It's probably too many points to justify, but is sure sounds fun.

I'm curious if Hormagaunts are going to be the way to go as a Trygon partner. They can take AG, in a unit over 20 will have reroll 1s on both hits and wounds, and can pile in 6" meaning they can pile into other units much easier.

I also like the potential of a brood of 9 raveners all with spinefists although I'm not sure if the rending claws are better than the extra attack with two scything talons.

Its too bad tyrant guard units are a minimum of three units. At 35 points each and 3 wounds taking just one would have been really economical for protecting Swarmy. Im not sure if 105 points on top of the 300 youre already paying is worth it. Straying into death star mode at that point.

Regarding the carnifex with four guns, it states in the wargear list that a model cannot be armed with more then one bio-cannon. So you could swap one set of talons for a bio-cannon pair but the other set could only be swapped with a melee bio weapon.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Its too bad tyrant guard units are a minimum of three units. At 35 points each and 3 wounds taking just one would have been really economical for protecting Swarmy. Im not sure if 105 points on top of the 300 youre already paying is worth it. Straying into death star mode at that point.

Regarding the carnifex with four guns, it states in the wargear list that a model cannot be armed with more then one bio-cannon. So you could swap one set of talons for a bio-cannon pair but the other set could only be swapped with a melee bio weapon.

You can give the Carnifex any number (well, 2 or 4) of Devourers and Deathspitters. The verbiage on the rule is odd, but you'll notice the * next to the rule you're referencing only applies to Stranglethorn and Heavy Venom cannons, not the other two bio-cannons. The old Dakkafex configuration costs 97pts for 12 s6 ap0 shots. Not bad. You can get 4x Deathspitters for just a bit more, but I'd have to do some math to see if that pays off. S7 doesn't add much benefit, but ap-1 might. Either way, now that Devourers have lost twin linked Meleefexes seem to be the way to go.

If you cast the horror on a unit and then charge it, do they automatically fail their OW rolls?

6 -1 = 7? Or is a 6 always a hit?

 Telly wrote:

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Its too bad tyrant guard units are a minimum of three units. At 35 points each and 3 wounds taking just one would have been really economical for protecting Swarmy. Im not sure if 105 points on top of the 300 youre already paying is worth it. Straying into death star mode at that point.

Regarding the carnifex with four guns, it states in the wargear list that a model cannot be armed with more then one bio-cannon. So you could swap one set of talons for a bio-cannon pair but the other set could only be swapped with a melee bio weapon.

You can give the Carnifex any number (well, 2 or 4) of Devourers and Deathspitters. The verbiage on the rule is odd, but you'll notice the * next to the rule you're referencing only applies to Stranglethorn and Heavy Venom cannons, not the other two bio-cannons. The old Dakkafex configuration costs 97pts for 12 s6 ap0 shots. Not bad. You can get 4x Deathspitters for just a bit more, but I'd have to do some math to see if that pays off. S7 doesn't add much benefit, but ap-1 might. Either way, now that Devourers have lost twin linked Meleefexes seem to be the way to go.

Oh okay. The resolution of my leaked copy is so bad the asterick is barely visible.

Some quick Carnifex configuration napkin math:
vs. MEQ

Devourers:
12shots 6hits 4wounds
1.3 Damage
Deathspitters:
12s 6h 4w
2 D
Scything Talons:
.5 how+ 5a 2.5h 1.6w
2.1D
Talons w/ Old One Eye:
.5 how+ 5a 3.3h 2.2w
2.7D
Claws and Talons:
.5 how+ 4a 1.3h 1.1w
1.6D
Claws and Talons W/ Old One Eye:
.5how+ 4a 2h 1.6w
2.1D

The results are pretty comparable against infantry, but this is best-case-scenario for Shooty Fexes. Melee will pull ahead against anything multi-wound and the Claws specifically will pull ahead against tougher targets.

I was looking at Deathleaper. Gee his its after me rule is quite darn nice.
Setup anywhere WITHIN 6" of an enemy character and attack any turn he likes.
Sure, hes not going to wipe out Ghaz or Abby but incredibly useful for stalking apoths, bigmeks, crypteks et al.

I'm not too sure of the Claw on a Carnifex due to the -1 to hit.
The damage is high but you are only hitting on a 5+

Having OOE with you mitigates it somewhat.

Biovores deal up to d3 mortal wounds to a unit. The spore Mine rule allows it to kill multiple models because it's not a normal gun. You don't allocate a wound to a model and then roll damage. You just hand out the mortal wounds.

Go to love we can give Genestealers scything talons for free. they are borderline useless compared to rending claws, but there are a few scenarios in which they are better.

An odd way you get your Broodlord up with your Tunnel Stealers is to simply take a spore pod. Add in another 19 stealers to join him on the trip and vioala! Give the pod venom cannons because they're only a point more, then charge with your Tyranid Dirt Torpedoe (TM) after shooting 5d3 s8 ap-1 shots at the closest target of opportunity.

Is anyone else really liking Deathleaper as a true character assassin? Placed WITHIN 6" and can then charge, 4 attacks either at 2D each or rending. Also his Chameleonic skin doesn't only apply to shooting so outside extra bonuses people hit him on a 4+, throw in some Horror and it's a 5+ at best. Fill in some Lictors and a BroodLord or two and you've got a full Vanguard detachment.

StarHunter25 wrote:
An odd way you get your Broodlord up with your Tunnel Stealers is to simply take a spore pod. Add in another 19 stealers to join him on the trip and vioala! Give the pod venom cannons because they're only a point more, then charge with your Tyranid Dirt Torpedoe (TM) after shooting 5d3 s8 ap-1 shots at the closest target of opportunity.

Not sure that works - the T-Cyte rules specifically say "a Hive Fleet infantry unit of up to 20 models". Nothing about a specific transport capacity (indeed, it doesn't have any transport keywords at all). The disembark rule also says "as if they were disembarking from a transport". So I don't think this is possible, sadly. Guess we have to hide our Broodlords in big blobs of Hormas instead to get them up to the genes - which is fine by me, seems they're a better Synapse HQ than Primes for only slightly more points!

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned Hive Guard yet..

With the shock gun they become a pretty strong antitank weapon (while only 24") their shock gun does +1 Mortal wound on any wound roll of 4+ So even if you needed a 5+ or higher to cause a wound normally (in which they get a save).. you are guaranteed to cause one on a 4+ which gets better on a 6+


Plus impailer can still doesn't need LOS


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wizerdree wrote:
Is anyone else really liking Deathleaper as a true character assassin? Placed WITHIN 6" and can then charge, 4 attacks either at 2D each or rending. Also his Chameleonic skin doesn't only apply to shooting so outside extra bonuses people hit him on a 4+, throw in some Horror and it's a 5+ at best. Fill in some Lictors and a BroodLord or two and you've got a full Vanguard detachment.

I use to use Deathleaper Assassin Brood a fair chunk (until they made it so you couldn't add Broodlords to Manafactorium Stealers) So yeah was happy to see Deathleapers rules

I am a little Disappointed that he isn't a HQ choice.. Just because there are so many HQ's needed for dem command points

Atm my abut 2k points my List of Painted Tyranids pulls in 7 Command Points

Actually got a lot to paint... and now Tyranids are looking good again and not just a mono build.. I will likely get to painting again


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I am actually thinking it is worth taking a Sporcyst as well for that extra command point as it is now a fortification

 Carnage43 wrote:

That brings me to psychic powers. The rule of one SUCKS SO HARD. Basically, more than 1 or 2 psykers is going to be pointless unless you just want to spam smite all day.

What is the rule of one you're referring to? Why can't you have multiple psykers all casting onslaught or something like that?

 Zimko wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

That brings me to psychic powers. The rule of one SUCKS SO HARD. Basically, more than 1 or 2 psykers is going to be pointless unless you just want to spam smite all day.

What is the rule of one you're referring to? Why can't you have multiple psykers all casting onslaught or something like that?

In Matched Play games, you can only ever cast any particular spell once (with the exception of Smite). So, only one Catalyst per turn, etc.

See Psychic Focus here:


This provides an interesting choice I think. Do you double down on certain powers so that you have back-ups, or can cast from a Psyker that is outside the range of an enemy Psyker who can deny, or do you take all the spells and spread them out so that you can cast all the powers each turn.

What are your thoughts on melee Hive Tyrant load outs at this point? The option to swap out both sets of Monstrous Scything Talons for two sets of Monstrous Rending Claws seems really tempting to me right now because the rending claws cost a whopping *zero* points.

Assuming wings (because why not) you're looking at:

2x Talons (212 pts):
5 attacks, S6 AP-3 3 damage, reroll 1s to hit

2x Claws (171 pts):
4 attacks, S6 AP-3 D3 damage, reroll to wound, 6s to wound resolved at AP-6(!) and 3 damage.

Haven't math hammered it out yet but I'm leaning towards the cheapo option just because it's so damn cheap for a decent beat stick/psyker/synapse model. I imagine they're about the same against 1-2W targets and that the Talons pull ahead against bigger targets. Might even consider splitting the difference and rolling with a 2x Deathspitter and Rending claw version since the claws don't stack like the Talons do.

That is an awesome idea..

Note to self.. when repairing a CC flyrant.. instead of reattaching lashwhip and bonesword.. add rending claws

wizerdree wrote:
Is anyone else really liking Deathleaper as a true character assassin? Placed WITHIN 6" and can then charge, 4 attacks either at 2D each or rending. Also his Chameleonic skin doesn't only apply to shooting so outside extra bonuses people hit him on a 4+, throw in some Horror and it's a 5+ at best. Fill in some Lictors and a BroodLord or two and you've got a full Vanguard detachment.

I like him but he seems like a liability in match play. Far as I can tell he has to be placed within 6" of the character when coming from reserve. so opponent bubble wraps and you may never get a chance to place him before turn 3. Two turns may not be enough against some armies. Just something to consider.

As far as carnifex is concerned I think 1 scythe 1 set of guns is better. They are kinda trash in cc now without dedicated weapons and losing a single attack for 6 S7 shots makes sense to me. And now that you can shoot one thing and assault another mixed role like that ain't bad.

Synapse is also more of a thing then people are assuming. Biovores are great but need a babysitter. Same deal with exocrines and tfexes. Charge it's less an issue but still a concern.

They need significantly less of a baby sitter. Worst case scenerio you shoot the nearest target. Its not like ib now where you loose total control of the model and si gle model units dont need to worry about moral.

 winterman wrote:

wizerdree wrote:
Is anyone else really liking Deathleaper as a true character assassin? Placed WITHIN 6" and can then charge, 4 attacks either at 2D each or rending. Also his Chameleonic skin doesn't only apply to shooting so outside extra bonuses people hit him on a 4+, throw in some Horror and it's a 5+ at best. Fill in some Lictors and a BroodLord or two and you've got a full Vanguard detachment.

I like him but he seems like a liability in match play. Far as I can tell he has to be placed within 6" of the character when coming from reserve. so opponent bubble wraps and you may never get a chance to place him before turn 3. Two turns may not be enough against some armies. Just something to consider.

That is true.. But it just has to land within 6" and no closer than 1" from the enemy.. So yeah it can be denied by smart play

But the other thing about him is that he doesn't actually have to attack the chosen character so you can place him and then go jump onto something else so a pretty much guaranteed charge

I'm excited about this, ill be dusting off my old nids.

Devourer gaunt bombs seem to have gotten better. 20 termagants in a pod gets the reroll 1's bonus from living ammunition. If your not worried about getting the charge from the Trygon, a 30 model squad can pop out of the tunnel.

It is also not unreasonable to get a tervigon it range to give the reroll 1 to hit.

Alright so here's a question for the Hive: How important have you found command points to be? I played my first game with a Brigade, for a total of 12 Command Points. Found them to be very useful, I used 11 of the 12 in a 6 turn game. Mostly used it on high probability rerolls. Rolled a 1 and 4 to cast a power, passed it on reroll. Same thing to deny. Used it to turn a damge of 3 into a 4 to finish off a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf after he passed way too many saves. Ended up losing a close game to a SW/DA list but we found out after the game his list wasnt correct. No hard feelings in the first game of the edition though!

So, I guess the question is, are 12 command points much better than say, 8 or 9? Its fairly Tax heavy and I definitely could use the points better if I wasnt maxing out my slots. My 2k list, for example, had 5 units of 3 Rippers to fill out the 6 slots as cheap as possible, and I was only able to fit two single Biovores. Obviously I would add more given the option! I think I could easily drop the Brigade for a Battalion and a Spearhead or Vanguard for 7-8 command points and have a little more efficient unit selection.

Have not had a chance to play yet, but I suspect command points will become much more useful as codexes are released and faction specific stratagems are released.

For nids, I imagine we will be able to respawn a eliminated troops unit or some such.

I did some Ravener numbers because I've been dying to get them into play and here's what I found for their melee kits. I'm less confident in how to quantify the guns vs each other.
9 Raveners
2x scytals
45 attacks
first hits(3+): 30 hits
reroll hits(3+): 35 hits
wound(4+): 17.5 wounds
Save(3+): 5.83...

rending:
36 attacks
hits: 24
wound(4+): 8 + 4 rending
save(4+): 4 + 4 rending

W/Red Terror (+1 to hit rolls)
2x scytals
45 attacks
first hits(2+): 37.5 hits
reroll hits(2+): 43.75 hits
wound(4+): 21.875 wounds
Save(3+): 7.292 damage

rending:
36 attacks
hits(2+): 30
wound(4+): 10 + 5 rending
save(4+): 5 + 5 rending

So, does anyone see a use for tyranid warriors? It seems to me without the character keyword to hide, their just going to get shot off the table. There's tons of awesome stuff to be excited about here, but I'm bummed that our synapse unit is about as resilient as Ork nobs...

Am I missing something? or why would I want warriors, when I can take a single prime for the hiding behind units?

 GreaterGood? wrote:
So, does anyone see a use for tyranid warriors? It seems to me without the character keyword to hide, their just going to get shot off the table. There's tons of awesome stuff to be excited about here, but I'm bummed that our synapse unit is about as resilient as Ork nobs...

Am I missing something? or why would I want warriors, when I can take a single prime for the hiding behind units?

I imagine to a degree it will matter on how you build the rest of your army. There is no more instant death, although there are multi wound weapons, now. If you have a brood of warriors babysitting a herd of carnifex as they run up the board they are less likely to see those big guns focus them down compared to being surrounded by hormagaunts and gargoyles. Being a troops choice they can pop out of Trygon holes for a lot of synapse up very close very fast. In either case they are a 3W, 4T model that is a synapse creature so it is ALWAYS immune to morale. A max sized unit without catalyst needs to absorb 27 wounds to be knocked down. If you equip a brood with up to 3 bio-cannons you can lay out 3d3 S8 attacks or 3d6 S5 attacks at 36". Will they be the codex star this edition? time will tell as all the armies finish getting unpacked and we see how things shake out. Are they playable and no longer a liability to field? It definitely looks that way.

Sadly Tervigons and Tyrannofexes are now the worst choices in the army I think.

250 is too much for returning maybe 50 termagants over a game, if you are lucky. 50 termagants is 200pts, might as well just take more to start with.

Tyrannofexes are worse than Exocrines if you give them a Rupture Cannon, for 15pts more.

Tyrannofexes with hives are the same price as 53 termagants so you lose out on 13 shots or 33 shots if it moves, compared to just taking more Gants.

Tyrannofexes with Acid Spray could be useful I guess, not sure what they compete with, though you pay for the no movement penalty rule and don't use it.

The value i find in the Tervigon is that it can help keep those termigant units over the 20 model threshhold. Also in the replenishment action they need to be within 6" from the tervigon and more than 1" from any enemy models. This does not specify that the unit they add to cannot have other models within 1" so you can continue to pile in and tarpit a combat.

Alternatively depending on unit placement you can add a few extra inches to a units movement by adding them to the front of the unit so long as they comply with other placement rules. Move 6" and get another 3" of Gant placement and then charge.

Edit: Re-reading the rules for the replacement section is says you can only replace models equiped with a fleshborer. If I read that right it means a mixed unit of 20 devourers and 10 fleshborers can only ever have the 10 fleshborers replaced. I would hole that any of the models can get replaced only with a fleshborer but that's not how it appears to read.

Let's also not forget the buff Tervigons provide to Termegaunts, as well as their ability to cast/deny a psychic power. They're a force multiplier, and for that reason you can't just compare their points value directly with the amount of Termagaunts they can spit out.

Anyone consider running a Synapse-less army?

I dont really see much of a downside to IB now, barring your opponent parking something really really tough infront of your gants and forcing them to chip chip chip away at it for 6 turns.
But with some smart movement and positioning you could avoid this.

Am I missing something?

 Ratius wrote:
Anyone consider running a Synapse-less army?

I dont really see much of a downside to IB now, barring your opponent parking something really really tough infront of your gants and forcing them to chip chip chip away at it for 6 turns.
But with some smart movement and positioning you could avoid this.

Am I missing something?

gak LD means loosing droves of hordes to moral. Otherwise nope.

wizerdree wrote:


Edit: Re-reading the rules for the replacement section is says you can only replace models equiped with a fleshborer. If I read that right it means a mixed unit of 20 devourers and 10 fleshborers can only ever have the 10 fleshborers replaced. I would hole that any of the models can get replaced only with a fleshborer but that's not how it appears to read.

Correct. But since you can choose which models die first, you can put the fleshborer gaunts in the back and remove them first. That way your devgaunts stay in range and your Tervigon can replace the dead ones. I'm personally going to run 2 units of Termagaunts and give 15 devgaunts in each unit. That gives them a 15 wound buffer before they lose the devgaunts and allows the Tervigon to buff both units. In total we're looking at 60 gaunts, half with devourers, that refill 1s to hit and wound, and a Tervigon to replace up to 10 per turn and provide onslaught or maybe just a smite. That's quite a bit of area denial. The cost would be 600 points for all of that.

gak LD means loosing droves of hordes to moral.

Very true, had forgotten that

 Ratius wrote:
Anyone consider running a Synapse-less army?

I dont really see much of a downside to IB now, barring your opponent parking something really really tough infront of your gants and forcing them to chip chip chip away at it for 6 turns.
But with some smart movement and positioning you could avoid this.

Am I missing something?

Synapse biggest benefit this edition is immunity to morale. Without that, it'll be really easy to kill gaunts in droves.

Edit: sorry someone already answered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
4 Zoanthropes (1 being Neuro cause it's free?) for 160. Their smite deal d3+d3 or d6+d3 mortal wounds. They still provide synapse and are now much harder to kill without instant death. And they can always cast a different power if needed. I think this is still decent. Especially since mortal wounds are automatic. With command points, you can ensure the power works each time. These aren't as bad as some are thinking imo.

 Zimko wrote:
4 Zoanthropes (1 being Neuro cause it's free?) for 160. Their smite deal d3+d3 or d6+d3 mortal wounds. They still provide synapse and are now much harder to kill without instant death. And they can always cast a different power if needed. I think this is still decent. Especially since mortal wounds are automatic. With command points, you can ensure the power works each time. These aren't as bad as some are thinking imo.

I think the 'Once per turn' clause on Psychic powers not called smite ruins Zoanthropes. A Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord/Tervigon can grant Catalyst and Onslaught, so once you have 2 Psychers, the 3rd doesn't add much benefit outside of a bit of redundancy. This means in most cases Zoanthropes will just be a mediocre shooting unit with an 8" synapse bubble.

So Gargoyles can charge enemy aircraft... that's interesting! You would need a lot to inflict a kill, but often you only need to chip off a few wounds before effectiveness starts to drop. Big Gargoyle swarms might create additional no go read for enemy aircraft, who already seem a little vulnerable because they cannot fly off the table.

 Telly wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
4 Zoanthropes (1 being Neuro cause it's free?) for 160. Their smite deal d3+d3 or d6+d3 mortal wounds. They still provide synapse and are now much harder to kill without instant death. And they can always cast a different power if needed. I think this is still decent. Especially since mortal wounds are automatic. With command points, you can ensure the power works each time. These aren't as bad as some are thinking imo.

I think the 'Once per turn' clause on Psychic powers not called smite ruins Zoanthropes. A Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord/Tervigon can grant Catalyst and Onslaught, so once you have 2 Psychers, the 3rd doesn't add much benefit outside of a bit of redundancy. This means in most cases Zoanthropes will just be a mediocre shooting unit with an 8" synapse bubble.

I haven't had a chance to read up on how many armies get to ignore morale but it seems a lot of people are underestimating The Horror. -1 to hit in shooting and melee (but not negating overwatch?) and a -1 to leadership could be huge. Three zoans plus a neuro with the horror could reliably throw out effectively 5 wounds and heal 2 wounds a turn. Early game that 5 could be a pretty scary swing on some morale checks and late game that 4 mortals could be deadly to characters who've lost blocks of their bubblewrap.

wizerdree wrote:

I haven't had a chance to read up on how many armies get to ignore morale but it seems a lot of people are underestimating The Horror. -1 to hit in shooting and melee (but not negating overwatch?) and a -1 to leadership could be huge. Three zoans plus a neuro with the horror could reliably throw out effectively 5 wounds and heal 2 wounds a turn. Early game that 5 could be a pretty scary swing on some morale checks and late game that 4 mortals could be deadly to characters who've lost blocks of their bubblewrap.

That sounds fine and dandy on paper, but:
-Smite can't be aimed, it targets the closest model in LOS.
-The way LD works now, -1LD is, at best, going to be equal to killing one model
-A unit of 4 Zoanthropes loses 50% of its damage output after one Zoan dies
-A unit of 4 Zoanthropes is 160pts. For just over 100 you can take a full squad of Biovores, who can dish out mortal wounds more consistently (and accurately) from 4ft away. If you need synapse or a Psyker, a basic shooty Hive Tyrant is only 184pts.

To me, it seems that Zoanthropes are simply outclassed this edition.

 Telly wrote:

wizerdree wrote:

I haven't had a chance to read up on how many armies get to ignore morale but it seems a lot of people are underestimating The Horror. -1 to hit in shooting and melee (but not negating overwatch?) and a -1 to leadership could be huge. Three zoans plus a neuro with the horror could reliably throw out effectively 5 wounds and heal 2 wounds a turn. Early game that 5 could be a pretty scary swing on some morale checks and late game that 4 mortals could be deadly to characters who've lost blocks of their bubblewrap.

That sounds fine and dandy on paper, but:
-Smite can't be aimed, it targets the closest model in LOS.
-The way LD works now, -1LD is, at best, going to be equal to killing one model
-A unit of 4 Zoanthropes loses 50% of its damage output after one Zoan dies
-A unit of 4 Zoanthropes is 160pts. For just over 100 you can take a full squad of Biovores, who can dish out mortal wounds more consistently (and accurately) from 4ft away. If you need synapse or a Psyker, a basic shooty Hive Tyrant is only 184pts.

To me, it seems that Zoanthropes are simply outclassed this edition.

Nailed it.

This is a by product of generic psychic powers I think. Once the codex proper appears in a year or two, they will get a real warp blast back I imagine.

Although....the rule of one will continue to exist......so it would have to be a new smite-esque power, in that it can be cast as many times per turn as you'd like.

I'm just disappointed they didn't do something smarter as a hold over. Just give them a "weapon" called warp blast. S8, AP-3, D3 damage 24" range....whatever. They'd be a side-graded hive guard at least.

What about venomthrope?

Reduced range on venomthropes is a little bit of a bummer but -1 to hit is real nice especially if its coupled with the horror.

With most good shooters then hitting on a 5+ and even the best in class 2+ guys hitting on a 50/50 chance. The abundance of elite slots makes me think its a good idea to grab a bunch of 1 or 2 model units and just spread them out all over the place.

So one thing I have noticed is we have a gak load of mortal wound sources due to lots of psykers and our spore mines.

Hows this for a tactic. Take the mid sized detachment x2. 4 hqs tervigons stock. 6 termagant units with 10 devourer 20 fleshborer each. Spend any remaining points on venomthropes and carnifexes.

You get 30+ 20 shots from guns + 30 from having 30 models rerolling 1s to wound per unit of gaunts. Add venom sacs for 2 dmg devourers if you like.

Place the tervigons behind and between your blobs to spread around and over lap their aura and keep the units regenerating. Btw 40 gants a turn. Just the hq and troops cost less than 2000 points.

Another possible gem is the Hive Guard, who are back to BS 3+ and have improvements in both range and AP.

Anyone have any good thoughts on smashing vehicles at range? If we have to put down a Knight or a couple predators, there aren't a ton of options.

Hive Guard have solid range and decent damage, averaging around 1 wound per turn on a T7 or T8 vehicle.

The Exocrine, With 12 shots, doing 2 damage each at 3+ to hit seems good, but might have a rough time with T8 stuff.

Melee. Well, CATCHING them is the first problem, the second is getting your face stomped in.

Any other thoughts?

It will be like any Nid thing, weight of dice. We will get them through volume of shot. The Biovores handing out the Mortal Wounds will help a bit too.


I just realized that Zoanthropes and Venomthropes have the fly keyword. Can you imagine charging a dakkajet with a venomthrope?

 Carnage43 wrote:
Anyone have any good thoughts on smashing vehicles at range? If we have to put down a Knight or a couple predators, there aren't a ton of options.

Hive Guard have solid range and decent damage, averaging around 1 wound per turn on a T7 or T8 vehicle.

The Exocrine, With 12 shots, doing 2 damage each at 3+ to hit seems good, but might have a rough time with T8 stuff.

Melee. Well, CATCHING them is the first problem, the second is getting your face stomped in.

Any other thoughts?

Huge targets like that are probably one of the times the Rupture Cannon will outclass the Bioplasmic Cannon. The Tfex could put 24 wounds on the Knight on a good day, at great range. It won't, but it looks like it will be a bit more successful than the Exocrine none the less, especially if you throw in a couple of re-rolls (which have way bigger impact on high damage low volume of fire weapons than high volume weapons).

I'm going to dust off my Tfex and see how it does alongside an Exocrine for a bit at least. Those, plus three Hive Guard and a brood of Warriors with a Barbed Strangler fill out my ranged component nicely (any maybe HVCs on Tyrants and Harpies, but those are advance units rather than fortress units and shooting is an extra rather than their purpose).

I'm seeing a lot of misinformation in this thread, so after a good reading of the index I would like to help correcting some stuff.

Lance845 wrote:Reduced range on venomthropes is a little bit of a bummer but -1 to hit is real nice especially if its coupled with the horror.

With most good shooters then hitting on a 5+ and even the best in class 2+ guys hitting on a 50/50 chance. The abundance of elite slots makes me think its a good idea to grab a bunch of 1 or 2 model units and just spread them out all over the place.

Venoms miminum unit size is 3 models.

Lance845 wrote:Hows this for a tactic. Take the mid sized detachment x2. 4 hqs tervigons stock. 6 termagant units with 10 devourer 20 fleshborer each. Spend any remaining points on venomthropes and carnifexes.

You get 30+ 20 shots from guns + 30 from having 30 models rerolling 1s to wound per unit of gaunts. Add venom sacs for 2 dmg devourers if you like.

Place the tervigons behind and between your blobs to spread around and over lap their aura and keep the units regenerating. Btw 40 gants a turn. Just the hq and troops cost less than 2000 points.

Venom sacs only work in the fight phase.

Zimko wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Anyone consider running a Synapse-less army?

I dont really see much of a downside to IB now, barring your opponent parking something really really tough infront of your gants and forcing them to chip chip chip away at it for 6 turns.
But with some smart movement and positioning you could avoid this.

Am I missing something?

Synapse biggest benefit this edition is immunity to morale. Without that, it'll be really easy to kill gaunts in droves.

Edit: sorry someone already answered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
4 Zoanthropes (1 being Neuro cause it's free?) for 160. Their smite deal d3+d3 or d6+d3 mortal wounds. They still provide synapse and are now much harder to kill without instant death. And they can always cast a different power if needed. I think this is still decent. Especially since mortal wounds are automatic. With command points, you can ensure the power works each time. These aren't as bad as some are thinking imo.

Neurothrope is probably not free, it's just a missing entry, we have a lot of those actually. Try to understand how much a spinefist costs on a warrior.

astro_nomicon wrote:What are your thoughts on melee Hive Tyrant load outs at this point? The option to swap out both sets of Monstrous Scything Talons for two sets of Monstrous Rending Claws seems really tempting to me right now because the rending claws cost a whopping *zero* points.

Assuming wings (because why not) you're looking at:

2x Talons (212 pts):
5 attacks, S6 AP-3 3 damage, reroll 1s to hit

2x Claws (171 pts):
4 attacks, S6 AP-3 D3 damage, reroll to wound, 6s to wound resolved at AP-6(!) and 3 damage.

Haven't math hammered it out yet but I'm leaning towards the cheapo option just because it's so damn cheap for a decent beat stick/psyker/synapse model. I imagine they're about the same against 1-2W targets and that the Talons pull ahead against bigger targets. Might even consider splitting the difference and rolling with a 2x Deathspitter and Rending claw version since the claws don't stack like the Talons do.

Monstrous rending claws being listed in the monstrous bio weapons is probably a missprint that will get corrected, i wouldn't count on it lasting. Monstrous rending claws exist only on the broodlord afterall.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Its too bad tyrant guard units are a minimum of three units. At 35 points each and 3 wounds taking just one would have been really economical for protecting Swarmy. Im not sure if 105 points on top of the 300 youre already paying is worth it. Straying into death star mode at that point.

Regarding the carnifex with four guns, it states in the wargear list that a model cannot be armed with more then one bio-cannon. So you could swap one set of talons for a bio-cannon pair but the other set could only be swapped with a melee bio weapon.

Tyrant guard minimum unit size in matched play is 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GreaterGood? wrote:
So, does anyone see a use for tyranid warriors? It seems to me without the character keyword to hide, their just going to get shot off the table. There's tons of awesome stuff to be excited about here, but I'm bummed that our synapse unit is about as resilient as Ork nobs...

Am I missing something? or why would I want warriors, when I can take a single prime for the hiding behind units?

Why would you need to hide them? They are a troop choice that comes at the cheaper at 60 points for 9W T4 4+ immune to morale that holds out well in CQC and nerfs enemy psykers while providing synapse!! Those guys are a steal as they are!

 Carnage43 wrote:
Anyone have any good thoughts on smashing vehicles at range? If we have to put down a Knight or a couple predators, there aren't a ton of options.

Hive Guard have solid range and decent damage, averaging around 1 wound per turn on a T7 or T8 vehicle.

The Exocrine, With 12 shots, doing 2 damage each at 3+ to hit seems good, but might have a rough time with T8 stuff.

Melee. Well, CATCHING them is the first problem, the second is getting your face stomped in.

Any other thoughts?

Thinking about this list (2000P):

FORMATION 1:

HQ- Swarmlord (no profile for sabres???? don't know the cost)
-Tyrannocyte transport

TROOPS -20 hormagaunts + adrenal glands
TROOPS -20 genestealers

ELITE -Lictor
ELITE -Lictor
ELITE -Lictor

HEAVY SUPPORT-Trygon (adrenal glands)
HEAVY SUPPORT-Trygon (adrenal glands)
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore

FAST ATTACK- spore bomb
FAST ATTACK- spore bomb
FAST ATTACK- spore bomb

FORMATION 2 (heavy support focus):


HQ: -Hive tyrant (talons)
-Tyrannocyte transport

HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore

FAST ATTACK- spore bomb

I expect that I need to deploy half the army (matched play) in the deployment phase and that would be the biovores and spore bombs (probably going to switch the bombs for ripper swarms if I need to hold objectives).

Start of the movement phase I deploy the rest 9 inch away (tyrannocyte transport + trygon tunnel) and use the swarmlord's free move to get the genestealers closer. All units try to assault. Strategem reroll's can also be used to reroll charge dice. Worst case scenario I only got 20 genestealers in close combat (before overwatch). Very likely the can also get a 5+ feel no pain from the hive tyrant/swarmlord.

Spoletta wrote:


Neurothrope is probably not free, it's just a missing entry, we have a lot of those actually. Try to understand how much a spinefist costs on a warrior.

Monstrous rending claws being listed in the monstrous bio weapons is probably a missprint that will get corrected, i wouldn't count on it lasting. Monstrous rending claws exist only on the broodlord afterall.

For the Neurothrope it may be a case of it's just missing, but apparently a lot of units now don't pay for upgrading a model to a leader, don't have any examples on hand this is just what I've heard, I'll have a look.
The Warrior Spinefist is definitely a good enough example to not assume anything though.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Monstrous Rending Claws stay, the Hive Tyrant has always been able to get rending claws as an option, there not being any for the irl model likely is why it's always glanced over. May end up with a price cost for them instead though, to balance them with the MonScyTals

Swarlord cost is listed in it's own table. Named chars have no options, so you only pay for the models, without counting additional weapons.

Guys remember that Tyranids powers can now be cast on Genestealer Cult units, and that is awesome

Carnage43 wrote:Anyone have any good thoughts on smashing vehicles at range? If we have to put down a Knight or a couple predators, there aren't a ton of options.

Hive Guard have solid range and decent damage, averaging around 1 wound per turn on a T7 or T8 vehicle.

The Exocrine, With 12 shots, doing 2 damage each at 3+ to hit seems good, but might have a rough time with T8 stuff.

Melee. Well, CATCHING them is the first problem, the second is getting your face stomped in.

Any other thoughts?

With Fex at speed 7, adrenal glands being dirty cheap, command points to reroll charges and vehicles being stuck in melee, catching them will no longer be that hard.
If you expect problems with Imperial knights, take a look at OOE.

Carnage43 wrote:

 Telly wrote:

wizerdree wrote:

I haven't had a chance to read up on how many armies get to ignore morale but it seems a lot of people are underestimating The Horror. -1 to hit in shooting and melee (but not negating overwatch?) and a -1 to leadership could be huge. Three zoans plus a neuro with the horror could reliably throw out effectively 5 wounds and heal 2 wounds a turn. Early game that 5 could be a pretty scary swing on some morale checks and late game that 4 mortals could be deadly to characters who've lost blocks of their bubblewrap.

That sounds fine and dandy on paper, but:
-Smite can't be aimed, it targets the closest model in LOS.
-The way LD works now, -1LD is, at best, going to be equal to killing one model
-A unit of 4 Zoanthropes loses 50% of its damage output after one Zoan dies
-A unit of 4 Zoanthropes is 160pts. For just over 100 you can take a full squad of Biovores, who can dish out mortal wounds more consistently (and accurately) from 4ft away. If you need synapse or a Psyker, a basic shooty Hive Tyrant is only 184pts.

To me, it seems that Zoanthropes are simply outclassed this edition.

Nailed it.

This is a by product of generic psychic powers I think. Once the codex proper appears in a year or two, they will get a real warp blast back I imagine.

Although....the rule of one will continue to exist......so it would have to be a new smite-esque power, in that it can be cast as many times per turn as you'd like.

I'm just disappointed they didn't do something smarter as a hold over. Just give them a "weapon" called warp blast. S8, AP-3, D3 damage 24" range....whatever. They'd be a side-graded hive guard at least.

I wouldn't be so quick in condemning our zoans. Consider the following:

1) 3 biovores average 25% less mortal wounds of a succesful smite (classic version, not empowered version)
2) Zoans have a lot less range and have limited target selection. On the other hand though they are self sufficient, while also providing a synapse and in some cases hampering enemy casting. They also are really good as advanced psykers to disperse enemy casts, coming from AoS i can tell you that this is huge. On the other hand biovores while having a lot of range, absolutely need a synapse babysitting, or they will always shoot at the wrong targets.
3) Biovores have 4 wounds, against the 3 of zoans, and 48" is a protection in itself, but we now have a lot of reliable deepstrike, so beware. Zoans sport a 3++ save, which is extremely good on a 3W platform! You want to target them with high damage weapons, but all of these also have high AP which gets wasted on these guys. They are not good targets for any weapon, while having the same cost per wound ratio of a vanilla marine. 4 wounds are surely better than 3, but not by a lot, since many weapons in the game are damage 2 and d3, perfect to take on 4 wounds targets and not so efficient on 3 wound targets. There are some Damage 4 weapons, but are mostly melee and again with no less than AP -3.
4) Tyranids powers are awesome.

All in all i see both of them as viable choices, with the biovores being the less obvious ones and taken only if you also have a tervigon.

 Carnage43 wrote:
Anyone have any good thoughts on smashing vehicles at range? If we have to put down a Knight or a couple predators, there aren't a ton of options.

Hive Guard have solid range and decent damage, averaging around 1 wound per turn on a T7 or T8 vehicle.

The Exocrine, With 12 shots, doing 2 damage each at 3+ to hit seems good, but might have a rough time with T8 stuff.

Melee. Well, CATCHING them is the first problem, the second is getting your face stomped in.

Any other thoughts?

Harpies are cheap, have 4 ranged weapons + 3 AP-2 D3 attacks in melee and they WILL charge due to 30" speed!

Compared to other factions our flyers are really good, but don't forget that they have istinctive behaviour, and good like keeping them in synapse range.

For the Hive Tyrant, I can't see the equivilent option for twin-linked devourers. Has that option been removed?

Would it be two standard devourers for 6 shots total?

Might be time to remove an arm if that's the case (yes, I know, magnets...)

 ShaneTB wrote:
For the Hive Tyrant, I can't see the equivilent option for twin-linked devourers. Has that option been removed?

Would it be two standard devourers for 6 shots total?

Might be time to remove an arm if that's the case (yes, I know, magnets...)

Devourers w/ brainleech have been plain nerfed, with Twin-linked not being a thing like it was.
When you can swap out a pair of Scything Talons you can get 'Two devourers with brainleech worms' - as in they're now separate guns on each arm.
So if you swap out all your arms for devourers you'll get 4 guns.
You have to pay for each one though and they're 7pts each, so 14 for one pair, 28 for all.
Not super pricey but they're only Assault 3 each, meaning each pair will deal the 6 shots like before but now with no re-rolls. S6, no AP and 1 Dmg.
For 3pts extra on each gun (10) you can get Deathspitters w/ Slimer Maggots instead which are Assault 3, S7, AP-1, Dmg1.
So for that small point increase you're getting an extra strength and an AP value.
Devourers aren't really worth taking over Deathspitters if you're after the dakka build.
A tonne of people are gonna be in riot over how they've constructed their models.

Thanks. Didn't click it was swapping pairs. But yes, I thought why not pay a few points more for +s/-ap.
Normal wounds not spilling over is also hard to wrap my head around for fun builds. Need to play some low scale games before I remodel anything.

Spoletta wrote:

 GreaterGood? wrote:
So, does anyone see a use for tyranid warriors? It seems to me without the character keyword to hide, their just going to get shot off the table. There's tons of awesome stuff to be excited about here, but I'm bummed that our synapse unit is about as resilient as Ork nobs...

Am I missing something? or why would I want warriors, when I can take a single prime for the hiding behind units?

Why would you need to hide them? They are a troop choice that comes at the cheaper at 60 points for 9W T4 4+ immune to morale that holds out well in CQC and nerfs enemy psykers while providing synapse!! Those guys are a steal as they are!

So, I missed that they were troops, and that's in thier favor for sure. But they are still overcosted for thier wounds. One warrior is 24 points with his devourer, and a termagaunt is 4 points. so gaunts get 6 wounds to every three for warriors. Genestealers are 12 points now, so you could get 2 genestealers for every warrior, and get an invulnerable save.. etc..

Additionally, with basicly all of the weapons people will be taking having multiple damage, it seems to me that multiple wounds isn't an advantage, it's a liability. Basicly shooting has gotten better, and Warriors are still T4 and 4+ save... I just see no place for them. Everything they can do I can think of another unit that seems to do it better in Tyranids. I'll bring a single Prime to babysit my gaunt hordes because he'll be safe.

As it's one of my favourite models, does anyone see a use behind the maleceptor? It's rules seem underwhelming but I would love to get it to work and may be missing some obvious use for it.

GreaterGood? wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 GreaterGood? wrote:
So, does anyone see a use for tyranid warriors? It seems to me without the character keyword to hide, their just going to get shot off the table. There's tons of awesome stuff to be excited about here, but I'm bummed that our synapse unit is about as resilient as Ork nobs...

Am I missing something? or why would I want warriors, when I can take a single prime for the hiding behind units?

Why would you need to hide them? They are a troop choice that comes at the cheaper at 60 points for 9W T4 4+ immune to morale that holds out well in CQC and nerfs enemy psykers while providing synapse!! Those guys are a steal as they are!

So, I missed that they were troops, and that's in thier favor for sure. But they are still overcosted for thier wounds. One warrior is 24 points with his devourer, and a termagaunt is 4 points. so gaunts get 6 wounds to every three for warriors. Genestealers are 12 points now, so you could get 2 genestealers for every warrior, and get an invulnerable save.. etc..

Additionally, with basicly all of the weapons people will be taking having multiple damage, it seems to me that multiple wounds isn't an advantage, it's a liability. Basicly shooting has gotten better, and Warriors are still T4 and 4+ save... I just see no place for them. Everything they can do I can think of another unit that seems to do it better in Tyranids. I'll bring a single Prime to babysit my gaunt hordes because he'll be safe.

I don't remember genestealers and termagants giving synapse though, so why are you comparing apples to oranges? And a double scythe warrior is 20 points. They cost 6.6 points per wound, at T4 and 4+ armor. Marine scouts pay almost double for the same stats.
The synapse range of a prime is 8", compared to the range of 3 warriors which is close to 17".
Also, why do you think that people will prefer multi damage weapons? They cost really a lot usually, for limited efficency against many targets. Don't expect to see a lot of those around (except in melee).

Qwerty2jam wrote:As it's one of my favourite models, does anyone see a use behind the maleceptor? It's rules seem underwhelming but I would love to get it to work and may be missing some obvious use for it.

He does have a role now, compared to 7th were his only role was to cause a good laugh to your opponent. His cost is a bit high for a T7 12 W monster, but he has the added bonus of bringing one psy level that can be converted in up to 6 mortal wounds. Thanks to his +1 he is a reliable source of a buff for the first turn and then if he is not surrounded enough, he can opt to smite with almost guaranted success. That said, his melee stats are not good, and is really easily tarpitted. The 5++ is nice on multiwound models though.
What he has going for him, is that his preferred role (punishing MSU) is not hampered by wounds, so you need to remove all 12 of those wounds to remove the threath. His role IMHO is to be the centerpiece of an assault, right in the middle of the board where he can get the greatest number of units (remember that now chars count for separated units), provide Synapse, DtW and SitW, while being a credible threat to high wound targets. If he scores 7-8 mortal wounds, denys one power and provide synapse to gribblis during the initial impact before going down around the bottom of turn 3 or top of turn 4, then he paid for his price.

opu wrote:

 ShaneTB wrote:
For the Hive Tyrant, I can't see the equivilent option for twin-linked devourers. Has that option been removed?

Would it be two standard devourers for 6 shots total?

Might be time to remove an arm if that's the case (yes, I know, magnets...)

Devourers w/ brainleech have been plain nerfed, with Twin-linked not being a thing like it was.
When you can swap out a pair of Scything Talons you can get 'Two devourers with brainleech worms' - as in they're now separate guns on each arm.
So if you swap out all your arms for devourers you'll get 4 guns.
You have to pay for each one though and they're 7pts each, so 14 for one pair, 28 for all.
Not super pricey but they're only Assault 3 each, meaning each pair will deal the 6 shots like before but now with no re-rolls. S6, no AP and 1 Dmg.
For 3pts extra on each gun (10) you can get Deathspitters w/ Slimer Maggots instead which are Assault 3, S7, AP-1, Dmg1.
So for that small point increase you're getting an extra strength and an AP value.
Devourers aren't really worth taking over Deathspitters if you're after the dakka build.
A tonne of people are gonna be in riot over how they've constructed their models.

Yep. Reeeaally wishing I had taken the time to magnetize mine after I painstakingly converted custom devourer arms

Guess that's what I get for being an excited powergamer adding Dakka Flyrants to my Daemons at the beginning of 7th

To be fair that was kind of the only way to Run them at the time

All things considered I'm looking at running Melee Tyrants now. With no benefit to being airborne, but having more wounds and faster base movement they look pretty good on paper. The most interesting builds to me right now are 2x Rending Claw (super cheap) or Rending Claws and 2 Death Spitters (seems like a pretty good budget, Jack of all trades)

 astro_nomicon wrote:


All things considered I'm looking at running Melee Tyrants now. With no benefit to being airborne, but having more wounds and faster base movement they look pretty good on paper. The most interesting builds to me right now are 2x Rending Claw (super cheap) or Rending Claws and 2 Death Spitters (seems like a pretty good budget, Jack of all trades)

Mon. Rending Claws are certainly pretty nice.

It'll hopefully be FAQ'd or solved in some way to clarify but I know there's some belief that Mon. Scything Talons provide +1 attacks per pair, so combined with the fact you can split attacks; on the Hive Tyrant you have your 5 attacks, 1 gets used by the tail, but if you've got all MonScyTals and divvy up 2 attacks with 1 pair and 2 attacks with the other pair, the effect goes off twice, so you're generating an extra 2 attacks (1 from each), making that 6 attacks with the ScyTals.
I think this has stemmed from people going 'well why bother telling us the trygon or mawloc have 3 pairs of ScyTals then if you can't do stuff like this'.
So if this is the case then MonScyTals may just be worth the extra points over Mon. Rending Claws.

Would be nice to see the Tyrant getting a Rending Claw arm set for the model, don't think the warrior's would cut it justice.

 Ratius wrote:
Anyone consider running a Synapse-less army?

I dont really see much of a downside to IB now, barring your opponent parking something really really tough infront of your gants and forcing them to chip chip chip away at it for 6 turns.
But with some smart movement and positioning you could avoid this.

Am I missing something?

I'm actually considering running the opposite: A Pure Synapse army with no IB units.

HQ: Anything but OOE

Elites: Zoans and Maleceptor

Troops: Warriors

Fast Attack: Shrikes

Heavy Support: Trygon Primes.

Yeah it goes against Nid fluff completely and probably isn't really viable with how few bodies I'll have, but not having to worry about morale at all will be a nice buff.

opu wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:


All things considered I'm looking at running Melee Tyrants now. With no benefit to being airborne, but having more wounds and faster base movement they look pretty good on paper. The most interesting builds to me right now are 2x Rending Claw (super cheap) or Rending Claws and 2 Death Spitters (seems like a pretty good budget, Jack of all trades)

Mon. Rending Claws are certainly pretty nice.

It'll hopefully be FAQ'd or solved in some way to clarify but I know there's some belief that Mon. Scything Talons provide +1 attacks per pair, so combined with the fact you can split attacks; on the Hive Tyrant you have your 5 attacks, 1 gets used by the tail, but if you've got all MonScyTals and divvy up 2 attacks with 1 pair and 2 attacks with the other pair, the effect goes off twice, so you're generating an extra 2 attacks (1 from each), making that 6 attacks with the ScyTals.
I think this has stemmed from people going 'well why bother telling us the trygon or mawloc have 3 pairs of ScyTals then if you can't do stuff like this'.
So if this is the case then MonScyTals may just be worth the extra points over Mon. Rending Claws.

Would be nice to see the Tyrant getting a Rending Claw arm set for the model, don't think the warrior's would cut it justice.

However the Scything Talons ruling pans out will certainly be a deciding factor. If it's a flat +1 attack then I feel like the points saved and the reroll to wound of the Rending Claws win out. If it is indeed ruled that 2 sets of Scything Talons grant +2 attacks then it will be worth considering for the points.

Either way, it's all magnets from here on once I get around to mangling the devourers off of my Hive Tyrants

Also remember that Genestealer Cult units are Tyranids, so we can use them in our detachment (but they lose Cult Ambush).

Or we can use them in another detachement and even use them as a way to have an Astra militarum detachement.

shogun wrote:


Thinking about this list (2000P):

FORMATION 1:

HQ- Swarmlord
-Tyrannocyte transport

TROOPS -20 hormagaunts + adrenal glands
TROOPS -20 genestealers

ELITE -Lictor
ELITE -Lictor
ELITE -Lictor

HEAVY SUPPORT-Trygon (adrenal glands)
HEAVY SUPPORT-Trygon (adrenal glands)
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore

FAST ATTACK- spore bomb
FAST ATTACK- spore bomb
FAST ATTACK- spore bomb

FORMATION 2 (heavy support focus):

HQ: -Hive tyrant (deathspitters)
-Tyrannocyte transport

HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT-1x biovore

FAST ATTACK- spore bomb

Dit a test setup with this armylist-tactic.

In this armylist I assume I'am forced to deploy half the army.

So thats 4 sporebombs + 7 biovores in the backfield (pokerchips represent some enemy units:


The biovores try to stay out of line of sight and If the enemy goes first I just take in the shooting.

First turn Tyranids:

3 lictors deploy at a flank in cover:


Midfield I deploy the hive tyrant + swarmlord out of their tyrannocyte + 2x trygons with 20 hormaguants and 20 genestealers coming out of their tunnels. Biovores advance forward.


psychic phase: Hive tyrants try to cast catalyst on the genestealers and more powers after that.
shooting phase: swarmlord pushes genestealers 6 inch + d6 advance forward


All shooting units try to take down the most important enemy units.

Assault phase:
- Genestealers can assault without a problem.
- 3 lictors get a reroll assault and a 3+ save for standing in cover.
- Hormagaunts, trygons and hive tyrant got adrenal glance so need a 8 to get into assault.
- If I can only use the same strategem once in a single turn, I use one to reroll a single assault d6 charge.

I almost always got 2/3 extra units in close combat apart from the genestealers.

I really want to test this against other armies. I think I could struggle against lascannon/plasmagun Astra M because the got the cheap bubble wrap to sacrifice and fall back and come back gun's blazing. But I do think its possible to take a full round of shooting as long as the remaining force is capable of taking down the rest in close combat. I do think that the biovores are great. With all these other units in the enemies face its possible for them to keep on shooting and mortal wounds are piling up against the big targets. If the big targets are locked in close combat its possible to shoot at units nearby and possible charge with drifting bombs the next turn.

Potential?

The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

@ warrior chat, they have to have one ranged, one melee weapon (same with shrikes) so min cost is 24. Makes dual boneswords actually worth it for the bonus attack.

@ biovore and spore null deploy, the biovores are gonna be useless with a foe who uses bubblewrap due to instictive behaviour.

I think there are a few big winners in this set of rules, but i still really can't see myself using a lot of units. Fexes are just so damn cheap (99pts for melee, 114 for dakka), don't depreciate with wounds taken, and can be taken 3 to a slot, that I really can't see a lot of other big bugs being worth it. Haruspex clocks in at 278, way too much. Maleceptor might have a niche with its mortal wound dishing a synapse. Mawlocs seem pretty lacklustre now to be honest, 3pts less than 3 biovores and very likely to dish out less mortal wounds unless you can somehow catch 3+ units (and even then only every other turn twice per game, and it takes up those valuable reserve slots). Trygons are reasonably priced at 180/219 for prime and the tunnel is super useful, so they have a place. Exocrines spit out a hell of a lot of fire and thus might be worth it solely as they're one of our only sources of ranged high AP fire - but for the price of 2 dakkafexes you get half (1/4 if you move) the str7 shots. A lot of vehicles being t8 is the main issue with them i feel. T-fexes I just don't feel are at all worth it, more pricey than an exocrine with RC and outclassed. The toxicrene at 165 is cheap enough to be potentially worthwhile, though the WS depreciation sucks. And as the poster above points out, tervis will be pretty worthless if you pay for respawned gaunts as well as created units.

In any case, dont take that as a big moan, we have a lot to be happy about! I am hyped to try fex spam, tunneling stuff and for hierodule rules so i can throw one in the enemy's face with swarmy 8D

Spoletta wrote:
Compared to other factions our flyers are really good, but don't forget that they have istinctive behaviour, and good like keeping them in synapse range.

I don't think keeping them in synapse is going to be a big problem. Warriors, Zoanthropes, and Trygon Primes all have options to deep strike, Winged Hive Tyrants seem solid, and careful movement can mitigate the shoot at the nearest target problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@weapon arms, my reading is that Warriors (and the Prime) have to take one set of cc arms and one gun.

Right now I'm looking at an army core of:

Swarmlord
3 squads of 3 Warriors with rending, devourers, and a venom cannon
2 Trygons with adrenal glands
3 Harpies with venom cannons

This comes out to 1414. I can bump it to 1500 with an extra squad of Warriors, or add stealers and gaunts for higher point games.

Benlisted wrote:
@ warrior chat, they have to have one ranged, one melee weapon (same with shrikes) so min cost is 24. Makes dual boneswords actually worth it for the bonus attack.

Spoletta wrote:
@weapon arms, my reading is that Warriors (and the Prime) have to take one set of cc arms and one gun.

Just clarifying, Warriors can take two sets of Scything Talons if they want to, as Scything Talons are a Basic Bio-weapon, so bare min cost would be a flat 20.

Benlisted wrote:
@ warrior chat, they have to have one ranged, one melee weapon (same with shrikes) so min cost is 24. Makes dual boneswords actually worth it for the bonus attack.

@ biovore and spore null deploy, the biovores are gonna be useless with a foe who uses bubblewrap due to instictive behaviour.

I think there are a few big winners in this set of rules, but i still really can't see myself using a lot of units. Fexes are just so damn cheap (99pts for melee, 114 for dakka), don't depreciate with wounds taken, and can be taken 3 to a slot, that I really can't see a lot of other big bugs being worth it. Haruspex clocks in at 278, way too much. Maleceptor might have a niche with its mortal wound dishing a synapse. Mawlocs seem pretty lacklustre now to be honest, 3pts less than 3 biovores and very likely to dish out less mortal wounds unless you can somehow catch 3+ units (and even then only every other turn twice per game, and it takes up those valuable reserve slots). Trygons are reasonably priced at 180/219 for prime and the tunnel is super useful, so they have a place. Exocrines spit out a hell of a lot of fire and thus might be worth it solely as they're one of our only sources of ranged high AP fire - but for the price of 2 dakkafexes you get half (1/4 if you move) the str7 shots. A lot of vehicles being t8 is the main issue with them i feel. T-fexes I just don't feel are at all worth it, more pricey than an exocrine with RC and outclassed. The toxicrene at 165 is cheap enough to be potentially worthwhile, though the WS depreciation sucks. And as the poster above points out, tervis will be pretty worthless if you pay for respawned gaunts as well as created units.

In any case, dont take that as a big moan, we have a lot to be happy about! I am hyped to try fex spam, tunneling stuff and for hierodule rules so i can throw one in the enemy's face with swarmy 8D

The big winner is the Swarmlord. Giving a unit free movement in the shooting phase is golden and a must have. Genestealers moving 8 inch + d6 advance then doing this again in the shooting phase + 2xd6 charge= average 30 inch assault!!!

I've only looked at the Tyranids for an hour or two, but I did some math on them with my friend because he's playing Nids, and currently to me an army with something like:

-Swarmlord
-2 Trygon Primes
-2 maxed blobs of Stealers
-Couple units of Raveners
-Red Terror
-Lots of Hive Guard
-2-3 units of Termagants (don't need to be that big) for objectives in safe areas

Should work decently enough. Hive Guard beat Carnifexes (and everything else) pretty easily point by point in killing vehicles, while having the advantage of range and line of sight too, and the rest is the stuff that does the most damage for the buck in combat.

Swarmlord moves forward in the middle, advances, he'll be in range of the deep strike factions to provide synapse. He can Hive Commander one unit into guaranteed charge ranges, and and he can Catalyst a blob of Stealers. The Hive Guard move with him, or they don't move at all. Everything else is the assault element that is in your face immediately. All of it can theoretically get the jump already turn one, but turn two the latest isn't bad at all. You'll also get to deep strike such that you'll guarantee multicharges against tons of units. Just making the charges might win you the game since you reduce the enemy shooting next turn to a fraction of the original. The only way, in my mind, to deal with this (as the enemy) is to have solid units that can actually fight the Tyranids in close combat. By far the toughest opponent would be footslogging all-assault Orks. Against them, the Tyranids will get a lot of the charges, so you'll have to do damage when you make your move, and somehow isolate (or hope that the enemy makes a mistake) half of the enemy army. If 150 Boyz charge the Tyranids, it's over.

What people overestimate about the Orks, is their Mob Rule. Large units of Boyz aren't immune to losing guys to morale at all. The AM Commissar rule is much, much stronger than the Mob Rule. Against units of 30 Ork Boyz, the break point to destroy them is at 19 kills. You kill 19 models in one turn (shooting and fighting combined), and the rest will explode. The average D6 roll is 3.5. 3.5+19 deaths=22.5. The unit has 11 guys alive, so their LD is 11. 22.5-11=11.5 more dead. The unit is dead.

That's how you kill them. You kill 19 guys from one unit, and then you start shooting the next one.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

 D6Damager wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.

Necrons bring back dead models with RP, Sisters bring back the dead with Hospitalers. Bringing back dead models is more like undoing a failed save, since it can't bring an army above it's starting total points, which it looks like 8E is fine with.

opu wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
@ warrior chat, they have to have one ranged, one melee weapon (same with shrikes) so min cost is 24. Makes dual boneswords actually worth it for the bonus attack.

Spoletta wrote:
@weapon arms, my reading is that Warriors (and the Prime) have to take one set of cc arms and one gun.

Just clarifying, Warriors can take two sets of Scything Talons if they want to, as Scything Talons are a Basic Bio-weapon, so bare min cost would be a flat 20.

Oh good catch. Still, probably only worth it for the bargain basement 2xscytal build, unless you wanna keep your melee warriors a little cheaper.

Also I agree that from the matched play rules frontline have it wrong (they made a few mistakes) - replenishing looks like you don't have to pay for it, which means tervis might be good.

I'm looking forward to the Malanthrope rules, as since venoms now are min 3, I can see a similarly priced -1 to hit bubble with built in synapse being really solid. A shooty Nid list could easily have a solid base of biovores and hive guard babysat by malanthropes, with tervigons replenishing big units of half devilgaunts further up. Add dakkafexes and maybe an exocrine or some harpies to taste.

So a hideous tactic exists now. Combine Deathleaper, venomthropes, a psycher with horror. Charge a unit. Laugh as they get a -4 total hit modifier. Bonus troll if youy bring some GSC for mass hypnosis. Laugh more as no one but Khârne can hit you.

 Therion wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.

That's how it reads ("units"). And that would also match how it works in AoS.

You can replace models that have been slain in a unit that exists. A total new unit = reinforcement points.

I'm going to have to agree with Shane here. Otherwise apothecary type units would need to set aside points in matched play to bring back fallen dudes, and necrons points to use reanimation. And yes, the two rules have the same function returning lost points to play.

nidzilla still a thing for a newbie just starting tyranids?

I'm not super familiar but things I like the look of:

Like swarmlord
2x CC Flyrants
deathleaper
Mawloc
trygon

And some cheap troops and living artillery to balance it out

 Ratius wrote:
I was looking at Deathleaper. Gee his its after me rule is quite darn nice.
Setup anywhere WITHIN 6" of an enemy character and attack any turn he likes.
Sure, hes not going to wipe out Ghaz or Abby but incredibly useful for stalking apoths, bigmeks, crypteks et al.

Maybe it's just me, but this just screams out "Hunt the Psycher!"

Some medium-length battle reports for my first 4 games of 8th with Nids, and plenty of on the spot thoughts on the units I used

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727641.page#9408301

 Therion wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.

Your argument basically comes down to them saying units and not models. RAI "replace models that have been destroyed" obviously falls under the category of "replace units that have been destroyed". Did you unironically think that wasnt the case?

 SeraphimXIX wrote:


Your argument basically comes down to them saying units and not models. RAI "replace models that have been destroyed" obviously falls under the category of "replace units that have been destroyed". Did you unironically think that wasnt the case?

That makes no sense. Unless you are talking about a one model unit, which doesn't apply in this situation. Replacing models in a unit is not the same thing as replacing a destroyed unit or creating new units.

Benlisted wrote:

opu wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
@ warrior chat, they have to have one ranged, one melee weapon (same with shrikes) so min cost is 24. Makes dual boneswords actually worth it for the bonus attack.

Spoletta wrote:
@weapon arms, my reading is that Warriors (and the Prime) have to take one set of cc arms and one gun.

Just clarifying, Warriors can take two sets of Scything Talons if they want to, as Scything Talons are a Basic Bio-weapon, so bare min cost would be a flat 20.

Oh good catch. Still, probably only worth it for the bargain basement 2xscytal build, unless you wanna keep your melee warriors a little cheaper.

Does this enable builds like Bone Sword/Lash Whip + Rending Claws? Trade the devourer for scything talons, then trade both sets of talons for other melee weapons.

I don't see it as being super OP due to the abilities not stacking, but having the option for sword or rending as the situation demands isn't bad, and with the cost being so low it could be useful.

Benlisted wrote:



I'm looking forward to the Malanthrope rules, as since venoms now are min 3, I can see a similarly priced -1 to hit bubble with built in synapse being really solid. A shooty Nid list could easily have a solid base of biovores and hive guard babysat by malanthropes, with tervigons replenishing big units of half devilgaunts further up. Add dakkafexes and maybe an exocrine or some harpies to taste.

I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines hand out mortal wounds. Three HVC Harpies is just short of 400 points, has 6d3 S9 AP-1 D3 damage shots, and gets an extra command point from the Flyer Wing.

Yeah I think the BS + LW and rending claws is definitely the best bargain build for warriors (but every time someone says "try warriors out" I just take the same number of hive tyrants instead )

Edit: For what it's worth, the lack of instant death, plus str 6 and str 7 wounding them on 3's instead of 2's is pretty huge. And the prime is much better now too. I just love all of our other options more, but if you like the warriors, they're viable and do a lot of work for the points.

babelfish wrote:

Benlisted wrote:

opu wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
@ warrior chat, they have to have one ranged, one melee weapon (same with shrikes) so min cost is 24. Makes dual boneswords actually worth it for the bonus attack.

Spoletta wrote:
@weapon arms, my reading is that Warriors (and the Prime) have to take one set of cc arms and one gun.

Just clarifying, Warriors can take two sets of Scything Talons if they want to, as Scything Talons are a Basic Bio-weapon, so bare min cost would be a flat 20.

Oh good catch. Still, probably only worth it for the bargain basement 2xscytal build, unless you wanna keep your melee warriors a little cheaper.

Does this enable builds like Bone Sword/Lash Whip + Rending Claws? Trade the devourer for scything talons, then trade both sets of talons for other melee weapons.

I don't see it as being super OP due to the abilities not stacking, but having the option for sword or rending as the situation demands isn't bad, and with the cost being so low it could be useful.

Benlisted wrote:



I'm looking forward to the Malanthrope rules, as since venoms now are min 3, I can see a similarly priced -1 to hit bubble with built in synapse being really solid. A shooty Nid list could easily have a solid base of biovores and hive guard babysat by malanthropes, with tervigons replenishing big units of half devilgaunts further up. Add dakkafexes and maybe an exocrine or some harpies to taste.

I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines ot from the Flyer Wing.

You know I'm really unsure - wording is trade "its" x for another item. RAW yes but feels a little weird, maybe one for YMDC. Anyway that combo is quite nice - you get the benefit of LWBS even if you don't fight with it, so a couple to soak the hits of charging units may not be crazy!

I agree that harpies are solid - point for point cheapest HVC/STC in the dex, since it has 2, but I see str 9 as super valuable since it wounds t4 MEQs on 2s and tanks on 3s. (I also think normal VCs for only 9pts is a steal, my warriors will be maxxing them out). And a load of other utility with salvo, spores and the shriek. That said, it is FA not flier, so just use em to work towards your brigade 9cps

Also, don't know if people realise but advancing is done during movement, so those genes popping out of that trygon hole won't get to do it before you charge. Also, as the tcyte isnt a real transport, theres no way to propel a broodlord up there to buff trygon hole stealers. Onslaught and hive commander seem the only options, though giving the foe a turn to deal with 3 trygons and 60 stealers whilst avoiding t1 fire certainly isnt a terrible option either!

I think biggest thing to think about with Tyranids and GSC

Is that unless you are going a Monster/vehicle list you are most likely going to be going 2nd.

babelfish wrote:

I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines hand out mortal wounds. Three HVC Harpies is just short of 400 points, has 6d3 S9 AP-1 D3 damage shots, and gets an extra command point from the Flyer Wing.

Just short of 500 points don't you mean? You have to pay for both of the venom cannons.
They're still really good though.

Arson Fire wrote:

babelfish wrote:

I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines hand out mortal wounds. Three HVC Harpies is just short of 400 points, has 6d3 S9 AP-1 D3 damage shots, and gets an extra command point from the Flyer Wing.

Just short of 500 points don't you mean? You have to pay for both of the venom cannons.
They're still really good though.

Yes, my bad. Knew I had to pay for both venom cannons, didn't actually add the second one in. 149 per Harpy, 447 for 3, assuming "can also shoot stinger salvos " means they have to pay for stinger salvos as a mandatory upgrade. If that phrasing means they get to shoot stinger salvos but don't have to pay for the gun then it is 11 points less per model, so 416 for three of them.

How about this for a tactic? Edit:(I see someone else thought of this, oh well)

Trygon delivers 20 Genestealers. Swarmlord uses his Hive Commander ability to allow the Genestealers to Move AND Advance in the shooting phase and then charge on turn 1.

It's a lot less risky then relying on them to make a 9" charge. The Swarmlord's ability requires the Genestealers be within 6" but the Swarmlord has a movement of 9" and the Trygon has a large enough base that the Swarmlord should be able to move up far enough for this to work.

I made an army list with this strat in it. It also combines Carnifexes, Old One Eye, Biovores and a Termagaunt/Tervigon element.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727658.page

Battalion Detachment
HQ
Tervigon w/ Massive Scything Talons and Stinger Salvo - 250
Swarmlord - 300
Troops
3 Tyranid Warriors w/ V. Cannon, 2 death spitters and scy. talons - 85
27 Termagaunts w/ 15 Devourers and 12 Fleshborers - 168
28 Termagaunts w/ 15 Devourers and 13 Fleshborers - 172
20 Genestealers w/ Rending Claws and Scything Talons - 240 (Or 30 Hormagaunts w/ Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs for 240, By the math though, Genestealers seem better)
Spearhead Detachment
HQ
Old One Eye - 140
Heavy Support
Trygon Prime w/ 3 Pairs of Massive Scything Talons, Biostatic Rattle, Adrenal Glands and Bio-electric pulse with containment spines - 219
3 Carnifexes w/ 2 pairs of Monstrous Scything Talons and a Thresher Scythe - 282
3 Biovores - 72
3 Biovores - 72

Total: 2000

The swarmy tactic works well for a guaranteed turn 1 charge but I like just bringing a second Trygon with another bunch of 20 stealers. Remember also that the trygon is able to make an 8" charge attempt if you give it adrenal glands (and why would you not). That's 2 8" turn 1 charges and 2 9" turn 1 charges. Plus you have a command re-roll, granting them pseudo fleet, and because you usually have multiple failed charge options, you can pick the one where you have a good chance of making it with the use of the re-roll. (66% - 86% I've seen much of the time).

The reason why I tend not to use the Swarmlord ability on the stealers is because if I use it on a flyrant, that's a 32" turn 1 move, giving me a pretty good chance at 3 turn 1 charges. The average mathematically is between 2 and 3, but it tops out higher because 5 charges could succeed turn 1. I even once had a flyrant make a charge turn 1 without Swarmy's ability (onslaught and 16" base move is really nice )

And this is all without a Hive Crone or a Harpy, which I've really been meaning to try out....but I would have to drop the Exocrine, and he has been an absolute monster. Loving all of the options we have, and none of them are awful

babelfish wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:

babelfish wrote:

I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines hand out mortal wounds. Three HVC Harpies is just short of 400 points, has 6d3 S9 AP-1 D3 damage shots, and gets an extra command point from the Flyer Wing.

Just short of 500 points don't you mean? You have to pay for both of the venom cannons.
They're still really good though.

Yes, my bad. Knew I had to pay for both venom cannons, didn't actually add the second one in. 149 per Harpy, 447 for 3, assuming "can also shoot stinger salvos " means they have to pay for stinger salvos as a mandatory upgrade. If that phrasing means they get to shoot stinger salvos but don't have to pay for the gun then it is 11 points less per model, so 416 for three of them.

Hmm? Still doesn't quite seem to add up to my number.
Harpy
2x Heavy Venom Cannon
Scything Wings
Stinger Salvoes

That adds up to 162 points each. Or 486 for three of them.
I'm assuming the stinger salvoes are mandatory, as they're not mentioned in the Wargear Options section.

Arson Fire wrote:

babelfish wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:

babelfish wrote:

I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines hand out mortal wounds. Three HVC Harpies is just short of 400 points, has 6d3 S9 AP-1 D3 damage shots, and gets an extra command point from the Flyer Wing.

Just short of 500 points don't you mean? You have to pay for both of the venom cannons.
They're still really good though.

Yes, my bad. Knew I had to pay for both venom cannons, didn't actually add the second one in. 149 per Harpy, 447 for 3, assuming "can also shoot stinger salvos " means they have to pay for stinger salvos as a mandatory upgrade. If that phrasing means they get to shoot stinger salvos but don't have to pay for the gun then it is 11 points less per model, so 416 for three of them.

Hmm? Still doesn't quite seem to add up to my number.
Harpy
2x Heavy Venom Cannon
Scything Wings
Stinger Salvoes

That adds up to 162 points each. Or 486 for three of them.
I'm assuming the stinger salvoes are mandatory, as they're not mentioned in the Wargear Options section.

I managed to leave out the wings this time around. I can't math today.

 Zimko wrote:
How about this for a tactic? Edit:(I see someone else thought of this, oh well)

Trygon delivers 20 Genestealers. Swarmlord uses his Hive Commander ability to allow the Genestealers to Move AND Advance in the shooting phase and then charge on turn 1.

Seems like a waste of the Trygon, in Turn 1. You would need to come out 9" from the enemy, all models have to be within 3" of the Trygon AND 9" from the enemy, 9"+6"+1d6" gives the Swarmlord 18" forward "aura range" on average. Given Standard deployment range of 24" between the front lines, means the Genestealers need to come out within 6" of the near side of the frontline and still be 9" away from enemy units.

For Turn 1, wouldn't it be easier to have 20 Genestealers move 8"+1d6+1" advance, Swarmlord Hive Commands, same unit now moves another 8"+1d6", and then gets a 2d6" charge. 11.5"+11.5"+7" leaves you 6" short of what your maximum would be while leaving the Swarmlord not right out in front. Trygon would be better used coming in at the back of their formation and having the Genestealers risk the 2d6" charge to get to an unit 9" away, with a reroll if needed on Turn 1. Course, using the Trygon/Hive Command combo on Turn 2 becomes very nasty, and your Swarmlord is 5-9" closer, does require another unit of Genestealers though...

Just my opinion/food for thought...

OK, still trying to "grok" this new way of doing things...

First Wave: 1902 points, I left some spare in case I messed up costs someplace...

Command points: 3+ 9 (Brigade)

HQ: Tyrant: Wings, Lash+Bone, Monster Scythes, Pincer Tail....226
HQ: Broodlord
HQ: Broodlord 162?

Troops: Stealer Brood, x10
Troops: Steal as above
Troops: as above
Trp: Rippers, spinemaws, x3
Trp: as above
Troop: as above

Venothrope Brood (Choking spores, venom lash) x3 132?

Lictor
Lictor

Gargoyles x 10 x3

Trygon (Bio electrics)
Trygon
Carnifex, Bio plasma, Two sets of Monster Scythes
Carnifex, as above
Carnifex, as above

Does this look "correct"? It looks like it could really mess up a lot of foes...

Deploying Genestealers (or whatever unit floats your boat like Hormagants) inside a Trygon tunnel does 5 important things:

1) It allows you to "deploy" that unit first, and then see what your opponent does with one of their units before you put your guys down, giving you an informational edge
2) It increases your average point value for a deployed unit (420 is like almost Imperial Knight neighborhood), meaning that you are more likely to go first, barring a seize
3) Since you deploy at the end of any of your first movement phases, it gives you a TON of tactical flexibility. I see most people coming in turn 1 because why not, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 if it helps you win the mission. Especially if it's eternal war, you have the perfect amount of immunity to being tabled if you go second.
4) Since you deploy during your turn, even if your opponent went first, you have zero alpha strike liability for these units. They go before your opponent shoots at them, period
5) Since you deploy during your turn with no scatter, all of your opponent's models will stay stationary from the time your guys hit the table until they make their charge rolls, and you have a perfect degree of control over their battlefield positioning. This alone can win games

In case all of that isn't enough, the Trygon is no slouch himself. I have no problem paying 180 points just for a guy who can pop up turn 1 and have an 8" assault. Every. Single. Time. Mine rolled extremely poorly and still almost sliced the Yncarne in half in one round of combat (it survived with 1 wound). Not the greatest vs tanks, but it can still get things done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:
OK, still trying to "grok" this new way of doing things...

Spoiler:

First Wave: 1902 points, I left some spare in case I messed up costs someplace...

Command points: 3+ 9 (Brigade)

HQ: Tyrant: Wings, Lash+Bone, Monster Scythes, Pincer Tail....226
HQ: Broodlord
HQ: Broodlord 162?

Troops: Stealer Brood, x10
Troops: Steal as above
Troops: as above
Trp: Rippers, spinemaws, x3
Trp: as above
Troop: as above

Venothrope Brood (Choking spores, venom lash) x3 132?

Lictor
Lictor

Gargoyles x 10 x3

Trygon (Bio electrics)
Trygon
Carnifex, Bio plasma, Two sets of Monster Scythes
Carnifex, as above
Carnifex, as above

Does this look "correct"? It looks like it could really mess up a lot of foes...

 luke1705 wrote:
Deploying Genestealers (or whatever unit floats your boat like Hormagants) inside a Trygon tunnel does 5 important things:

1) It allows you to "deploy" that unit first, and then see what your opponent does with one of their units before you put your guys down, giving you an informational edge
2) It increases your average point value for a deployed unit (420 is like almost Imperial Knight neighborhood), meaning that you are more likely to go first, barring a seize
3) Since you deploy at the end of any of your first movement phases, it gives you a TON of tactical flexibility. I see most people coming in turn 1 because why not, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 if it helps you win the mission. Especially if it's eternal war, you have the perfect amount of immunity to being tabled if you go second.
4) Since you deploy during your turn, even if your opponent went first, you have zero alpha strike liability for these units. They go before your opponent shoots at them, period
5) Since you deploy during your turn with no scatter, all of your opponent's models will stay stationary from the time your guys hit the table until they make their charge rolls, and you have a perfect degree of control over their battlefield positioning. This alone can win games

In case all of that isn't enough, the Trygon is no slouch himself. I have no problem paying 180 points just for a guy who can pop up turn 1 and have an 8" assault. Every. Single. Time. Mine rolled extremely poorly and still almost sliced the Yncarne in half in one round of combat (it survived with 1 wound). Not the greatest vs tanks, but it can still get things done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:
OK, still trying to "grok" this new way of doing things...

Spoiler:

First Wave: 1902 points, I left some spare in case I messed up costs someplace...

Command points: 3+ 9 (Brigade)

HQ: Tyrant: Wings, Lash+Bone, Monster Scythes, Pincer Tail....226
HQ: Broodlord
HQ: Broodlord 162?

Troops: Stealer Brood, x10
Troops: Steal as above
Troops: as above
Trp: Rippers, spinemaws, x3
Trp: as above
Troop: as above

Venothrope Brood (Choking spores, venom lash) x3 132?

Lictor
Lictor

Gargoyles x 10 x3

Trygon (Bio electrics)
Trygon
Carnifex, Bio plasma, Two sets of Monster Scythes
Carnifex, as above
Carnifex, as above

Does this look "correct"? It looks like it could really mess up a lot of foes...

 astro_nomicon wrote:


.......What do y'all think of this 2k list? Probably split between a brigade detachment and a spearhead for 7 CPs total.


3x Tyrant: Wings, Rending Claws, Adrenal glands

Broodlord

20x Stealers
10x Stealers
10x Stealers
10x Stealers
26x Hormagaunts
10x Hormagaunts
10x Hormagaunts

Trygon: Adrenal glands

3x Melee Fex: 2x Scything Talons, Tail, Adrenal Glands
Trygon: Adrenal glands


So with 3 Tyrants and the Trygon that's 4 Big Bugs and 20 'Stealers in the opponents deployment zone on Turn 1. Closely followed by another 76 gribblies and 4 additional CC beatsticks. Is it nuanced? Not really. Will the great devourer feast again? I certainly hope so.

Lose the broodlord/hive tyrant and 1 carnifex and get the Swarmlord. This free movement bonus it gives is just to good no to have and could slingshot units hormagaunts or genestealers another 8inch + d6 forward. In combination with catalyst (and onslaught) psychic power it is better to field bigger units so I would combine the small squads together. Its also nice to field single biovores because they're so cheap and can still shoot while moving and are easy to hide. Even two of these are a nice addition to claim backfield objectives.

Don't have any biovores so I'll leave em at home for now but yeah dropping 1 Tyrant, 1 Fex, and a few gaunts for the swarmlord seems like a good idea. Keeps in line with idea of a threat overload list.

How do yall feel about the following units? Havent seen many reviews for em

Raveners

HiveCrone/Harpy

Hive guard (both forms)



I do think Venoms will have their use, maybe not zoans...

I also feel Warriors will be excellent coming out of trygons with adrenals and a bonesword.

basically anything is pretty much good out of a trygon hole

even shooty units

Predictions on which FW models will be good? Just curious!

I created a Battlescribe data file for Tyranids, I don't promise it is free of errors but it is better than manual.

Here's an example, basically copied from Luke's list (and trashed a Crimson Fist list on Vassal).

+++ Tyranids (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [1998 Points, 110 Power Levels] +++

++ Battalion (Tyranids) [1110 Points, 68 Power Levels] ++

+ HQ [392 Points, 20 Power Levels] +

Hive Tyrant with Wings [196 Points, 10 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Monstrous rending claws, Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points], Two deathspitters with slimer maggots [20 Points]

Hive Tyrant with Wings [196 Points, 10 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Monstrous rending claws, Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points], Two deathspitters with slimer maggots [20 Points]

+ Elites [205 Points, 14 Power Levels] +

Tyrant Guard [205 Points, 14 Power Levels]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]

+ Troops [513 Points, 34 Power Levels] +

Genestealers [240 Points, 16 Power Levels]
. 20x Genestealer [240 Points]: 20x Rending claws [40 Points]

Genestealers [240 Points, 16 Power Levels]
. 20x Genestealer [240 Points]: 20x Rending claws [40 Points]

Ripper Swarm [33 Points, 2 Power Levels]: 3x Ripper Swarm [33 Points]

++ Spearhead (Tyranids) [888 Points, 42 Power Levels] ++

+ HQ [300 Points, 15 Power Levels] +

The Swarmlord [300 Points, 15 Power Levels]

+ Heavy Support [588 Points, 27 Power Levels] +

Exocrine [228 Points, 11 Power Levels]: Bio-plasmic cannon [66 Points], Powerful limbs [12 Points]

Trygon [180 Points, 8 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Bio-electric pulse [11 Points], Massive scything talons (two or more pairs) (Trygon and Trygon Prime) [60 Points], Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points]

Trygon [180 Points, 8 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Bio-electric pulse [11 Points], Massive scything talons (two or more pairs) (Trygon and Trygon Prime) [60 Points], Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points]

Created with BattleScribe

Tyran wrote:I created a Battlescribe data file for Tyranids, I don't promise it is free of errors but it is better than manual.

Spoiler:

Here's an example, basically copied from Luke's list (and trashed a Crimson Fist list on Vassal).

+++ Tyranids (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [1998 Points, 110 Power Levels] +++

++ Battalion (Tyranids) [1110 Points, 68 Power Levels] ++

+ HQ [392 Points, 20 Power Levels] +

Hive Tyrant with Wings [196 Points, 10 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Monstrous rending claws, Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points], Two deathspitters with slimer maggots [20 Points]

Hive Tyrant with Wings [196 Points, 10 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Monstrous rending claws, Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points], Two deathspitters with slimer maggots [20 Points]

+ Elites [205 Points, 14 Power Levels] +

Tyrant Guard [205 Points, 14 Power Levels]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]
. Tyrant Guard [41 Points]: Adrenal glands (other units) [1 Points], Lash whip and bonesword [2 Points], Rending claws [2 Points], Toxin sacs (Hive Guard, Gargoyle, Mawloc, Termagant, Tervigon and Tyrant guard) [1 Points]

+ Troops [513 Points, 34 Power Levels] +

Genestealers [240 Points, 16 Power Levels]
. 20x Genestealer [240 Points]: 20x Rending claws [40 Points]

Genestealers [240 Points, 16 Power Levels]
. 20x Genestealer [240 Points]: 20x Rending claws [40 Points]

Ripper Swarm [33 Points, 2 Power Levels]: 3x Ripper Swarm [33 Points]

++ Spearhead (Tyranids) [888 Points, 42 Power Levels] ++

+ HQ [300 Points, 15 Power Levels] +

The Swarmlord [300 Points, 15 Power Levels]

+ Heavy Support [588 Points, 27 Power Levels] +

Exocrine [228 Points, 11 Power Levels]: Bio-plasmic cannon [66 Points], Powerful limbs [12 Points]

Trygon [180 Points, 8 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Bio-electric pulse [11 Points], Massive scything talons (two or more pairs) (Trygon and Trygon Prime) [60 Points], Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points]

Trygon [180 Points, 8 Power Levels]: Adrenal glands (Monsters) [5 Points], Bio-electric pulse [11 Points], Massive scything talons (two or more pairs) (Trygon and Trygon Prime) [60 Points], Prehensile pincer tail [1 Points]

Created with BattleScribe

I think once the FW rules come out, swapping that Exocrine and some TG for a Dima (or indeed a Haruspex) might be a very solid option for a melee focused build. Alternatively: 3 Flyrants (that build), 3 Trygons, 3x20 Genes, 3 TG and 2 Mucolids just fits in 2k as well. One more drop so a tad less likely to get first turn, but also no rippers for that very easy first blood.

Arkengate wrote:Predictions on which FW models will be good? Just curious!

If malanthropes are a similar/cheaper points cost than Venoms, then they will be excellent imo. Venoms for -1 to hit are looking great for infantry lists, but if you can get that same rule with built in synapse? Winner. I am intruiged to see the Stonecrusher Fex stats, as normal fexes are fantastic so they could well follow suit. Dimachaerons I expect to be decent if they are 300 points or less with decent speed - the fast melee walking melee monster the codex lacks. Meiotics might be a nice substitute for Mucolids depending on points. Am also hyped for the Hierodule rules - fully expect them to be beasts if Knights are anything to go by. A good target for Swarmy's double walk I suspect...

Arkengate wrote:How do yall feel about the following units? Havent seen many reviews for em

Raveners

HiveCrone/Harpy

Hive guard (both forms)

Part of the issue with Raveners (and indeed melee Warriors and Shrikes) is that they have far far fewer rending attacks than Genes for the same points. That said, they do have some nice benefits - they have their own inbuilt deep strike, so you can get them up close without having to spend 150-180pts on a Pod/Trygon, so good to fill out points. If you add the Red Terror they get substantially better en masse. And of course they do have that 12" base move so they are one of the fastest things in the dex. In general though I think I would live by the principle of more genes... Warriors/Shrikes at least give synapse.

Harpies I think are solid as our cheapest Str9 platform, with tons of utility and mobility to boot. Crones I'm a little less sure of.

Hive Guard someone noted were the most points efficient armour killer in the codex, and some quick maths proves them right! I think they are a steal for the points with Impalers - ShockCannons I'm less enthused by.

Literally cannot wait for the Dimachaeron to come out. Definitely a prime target for swarmy's double move. Cast onslaught on that bad boy and he is very likely to make combat turn 1 if you don't mind using a re-roll for his charge distance. If he can "leap" 10-12 inches, that's 38-44" turn 1 on average, including charge roll, and 24-28' minimum move (assuming you roll a 1 on both of your advance rolls, snake eyes on your charge and your CP re-roll). Not too shabby

Benlisted wrote:

Arkengate wrote:How do yall feel about the following units? Havent seen many reviews for em

Raveners

HiveCrone/Harpy

Hive guard (both forms)

Part of the issue with Raveners (and indeed melee Warriors and Shrikes) is that they have far far fewer rending attacks than Genes for the same points. That said, they do have some nice benefits - they have their own inbuilt deep strike, so you can get them up close without having to spend 150-180pts on a Pod/Trygon, so good to fill out points. If you add the Red Terror they get substantially better en masse. And of course they do have that 12" base move so they are one of the fastest things in the dex. In general though I think I would live by the principle of more genes... Warriors/Shrikes at least give synapse.

Harpies I think are solid as our cheapest Str9 platform, with tons of utility and mobility to boot. Crones I'm a little less sure of.

Hive Guard someone noted were the most points efficient armour killer in the codex, and some quick maths proves them right! I think they are a steal for the points with Impalers - ShockCannons I'm less enthused by.

Raveners. I don't think they hit hard enough, compared to the same cost of Genestealers, and they don't bring anything else to the table. As much as I like the model, I think you want to take 'stealers for the fast assaulty role (how many editions has it been since someone said that?!)

Hive Guard. The problem with Hive Guard was weak BS, too short ranged, and not being a dakka Flyrant. BS improved, range improved, and dakka Flyrants are no longer a thing. They bring large volumes of high strength fire at reasonable cost.

I like Warriors. I think multiple squads of cheap warriors with venom cannons will work well as an anchor for the backfield. They are not punchy enough to be up front killing everything that moves, but nids have other tools for that. If you are going to run a meaningful backfield (Biovores, Exocrines), Warriors are a solid choice. If your running a fast, assulty build, less so.

Strikes provide fast mobile synapse, but not all that much else. Gargoyles, Hormagaunts, and Genstealers are all really quick: Shrikes role is to keep them in synapse. Thing is, Tyrants with wings are fast as well, Tyrgon Primes can deep strike, Tervigons can take a pod, and trailing models back to
Swarmy (who isn't slow) is simple enough. I think Shrikes, like Raveners, are outclassed in their preferred role by other options.

Harpies. Harpies bring lots of S9 shooting, (the venom cannon is an auto upgrade) which nids lack, on a platform with plenty of wounds, and get to hand out mortal wounds when they fly over things. This could easily be used as a character sniper tool-roll that six for multiple mortal wounds and watch people cry like you brought a D weapon. Three of them net you an extra command point from the Air Wing and fill in most of your anti tank.

StarHunter25 wrote:

Spoiler:

 ShaneTB wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.

That's how it reads ("units"). And that would also match how it works in AoS.

You can replace models that have been slain in a unit that exists. A total new unit = reinforcement points.

I'm going to have to agree with Shane here. Otherwise apothecary type units would need to set aside points in matched play to bring back fallen dudes, and necrons points to use reanimation. And yes, the two rules have the same function returning lost points to play.

Clearly states add or replace. Pg. 214 main rulebook. In matched play, nothing is free.

It says add or replace units. A termagant by itself isn't an unit.

Incidentally, to those going hard on Trygons in lists. Do remember that you really need one less than you suspect.

I've been starting one unit of 20 Stealers on the board. In most deployments that means an 8" move + d6 advance, + Swarmlord doing it for them again. On average dice for the advances you need a 3" charge to reach anything deployed right on the line.

I then have a 2nd unit of Stealers with a Trygon or T-cyte who can, if the first unit multi-charged, try for the long-bomb charge safely enough.

Oh also, the Toxin Sac tech is real, and will be competitive. Genestealer volume of dice is soooo high that fishing for sixes against even the hardest targets, yields a LOT of them with massive -4 rend, and now 2 damage thanks to the Sacs. In one of my games a unit of 20 Stealers (17 actually due to overwatch losses), one-shotted an Imperial Knight on fairly average dice.

 D6Damager wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:

Spoiler:

 ShaneTB wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.

That's how it reads ("units"). And that would also match how it works in AoS.

You can replace models that have been slain in a unit that exists. A total new unit = reinforcement points.

I'm going to have to agree with Shane here. Otherwise apothecary type units would need to set aside points in matched play to bring back fallen dudes, and necrons points to use reanimation. And yes, the two rules have the same function returning lost points to play.

Clearly states add or replace. Pg. 214 main rulebook. In matched play, nothing is free.

I agree with Shane and Tyran. Units are not equal to models. If you want to summon gaunts, you have to set aside points for them. If you want to add models to a gaunt unit that has taken casualties, you do not have to set aside points.

Summoning 10 gaunts doesn't feel worth 40 points, but having 10 gaunts pop out on an objective turn 5, in a system where claiming objectives is based on model count, does.

Lets say you run 3 Tervigons supporting 3 big squads of Termigants. 120 points of summoning reserves gives you 3 10 man units that can pop out to screen/last turn claim objectives, and you can spend the entire game healing the big squads.

AoS went out of its way to clarify this point in FAQs post General's Handbook, and the Tervigon entry even calls attention to the point.

I can't believe we're still having this discussion when it really is abundantly clear that reserving points is exclusively for the purpose of summoning new entire units.

 luke1705 wrote:
Deploying Genestealers (or whatever unit floats your boat like Hormagants) inside a Trygon tunnel does 5 important things:

1) It allows you to "deploy" that unit first, and then see what your opponent does with one of their units before you put your guys down, giving you an informational edge
2) It increases your average point value for a deployed unit (420 is like almost Imperial Knight neighborhood), meaning that you are more likely to go first, barring a seize
3) Since you deploy at the end of any of your first movement phases, it gives you a TON of tactical flexibility. I see most people coming in turn 1 because why not, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 if it helps you win the mission. Especially if it's eternal war, you have the perfect amount of immunity to being tabled if you go second.
4) Since you deploy during your turn, even if your opponent went first, you have zero alpha strike liability for these units. They go before your opponent shoots at them, period
5) Since you deploy during your turn with no scatter, all of your opponent's models will stay stationary from the time your guys hit the table until they make their charge rolls, and you have a perfect degree of control over their battlefield positioning. This alone can win games

In case all of that isn't enough, the Trygon is no slouch himself. I have no problem paying 180 points just for a guy who can pop up turn 1 and have an 8" assault. Every. Single. Time. Mine rolled extremely poorly and still almost sliced the Yncarne in half in one round of combat (it survived with 1 wound). Not the greatest vs tanks, but it can still get things done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:
OK, still trying to "grok" this new way of doing things...

Spoiler:

First Wave: 1902 points, I left some spare in case I messed up costs someplace...

Command points: 3+ 9 (Brigade)

HQ: Tyrant: Wings, Lash+Bone, Monster Scythes, Pincer Tail....226
HQ: Broodlord
HQ: Broodlord 162?

Troops: Stealer Brood, x10
Troops: Steal as above
Troops: as above
Trp: Rippers, spinemaws, x3
Trp: as above
Troop: as above

Venothrope Brood (Choking spores, venom lash) x3 132?

Lictor
Lictor

Gargoyles x 10 x3

Trygon (Bio electrics)
Trygon
Carnifex, Bio plasma, Two sets of Monster Scythes
Carnifex, as above
Carnifex, as above

Does this look "correct"? It looks like it could really mess up a lot of foes...

I may try to free up 40-points to get toxin sacs....would probably mean that I'd have to downgrade my exocrine to a harpy though

Actually, i'd say only go with 15 Toxin Sacs per. I've gotten quite a few games so far, and against most things Genestealers will want to multi-assault... they're too much over-kill otherwise.

As a result super-overwatch from 8th Ed means I was tending to lose 3-4 Stealers per Turn 1 Assault. Might as well make those ablative wounds be a little bit cheaper. ;-)

I worked something out I am hoping to test on a friend soon. Sticking with PPs until I get the feel of certain things, but overall it seems promising.

Broodlord
2x 20 Hormagaunts
Red Terror
6x Raveners
Trygon Prime
9x Rippers

Plan is for Brood to start on the field with the Hormagaunts, while Trygon Prime brings in Rippers on the turn. Red Terror and Raveners go for juicy targets from the side.

I'm on the fence on how to equip Tyrants right now.

Scything Talons look like the best melee weapon: hitting on 2+ rerolling 1's is no joke. I don't like the Lash Whip/Bone Sword because the number of situations where a Tyrant gets killed before swinging is pretty limited. Rending Claws are ok but Tyrants lack the volume of attacks that it takes to get value from rending.

My questions are: wings or no wings, gun or 2nd scything talons. My thoughts:

Tyrants have a reasonable movement. In a build focused around walking monsters such as Carnifexes, a walking Tyrant makes sense. Put a bunch of monsters on the table, screen with 'stealers, gargoyles or 'gaunts to taste, and look for T2 and T3 charges. A heavy venom cannon makes sense on this guy. He has the time to use it.

A Tyrant with wings is going to be getting T1 and T2 charges, so he needs to be in a faster list. The extra attack from the second scything talon jumps out to me more on the winged Tyrant. A gun gives him utility, but I don't think he ever gets the chance to use it.

Of the actual gun options, the heavy venom cannon or a pair of deathspitters look best. Deathspitters are flat better than devourers. The stranglethorn canon is meh. I think 'nids will be killing massed infantry by slamming massed infantry or monsters into them, not by plinking with guns.

babelfish wrote:I'm on the fence on how to equip Tyrants right now.

Imo 2 builds - 2x Scytal for volume of attacks, or RC+2x DS for value. Value would be 2x RCs but for 20pts 6 str7 ap-1 shots is too good to pass up (and is still cheaper than any other build). LWBS and 2xBS don't seem worth it, similarly the HVC and STC are too pricey for what you get when you can get a Harpy with 2 for cheaper than a tyrant with one.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Actually, i'd say only go with 15 Toxin Sacs per.

You have to take them for the whole unit or none at all. And whilst they do sound good, 4pts per model is 80 for the unit - 3 units of that and you coulda got another 20 genes.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Incidentally, to those going hard on Trygons in lists. Do remember that you really need one less than you suspect.

I've been starting one unit of 20 Stealers on the board. In most deployments that means an 8" move + d6 advance, + Swarmlord doing it for them again. On average dice for the advances you need a 3" charge to reach anything deployed right on the line.

I then have a 2nd unit of Stealers with a Trygon or T-cyte who can, if the first unit multi-charged, try for the long-bomb charge safely enough.

Personally I'd rather save Swarmy for something big and scary that usually wouldn't be able to make a charge (ie. by popping out of a hole or pod) - like himself or a Hive Tyrant, in absence of anything else!

I also think that overall, the pod is quite lacklustre when a trygon is only 32pts more, is a massive melee threat itself and occupies a HS slot to get yourself more CPs. Sure, 5 VCs is neat, but I'd rather push another melee threat down the enemy's throat. Main reason to use it is for the MC holding ability really.

babelfish wrote:Three of them net you an extra command point from the Air Wing and fill in most of your anti tank.

It would, but both Crones and Harpies are FA, alas

Can one replace both set of Monstrous scything talons for a Hive Tyrant with two sets of two brain leech worm devourers?

Because in the unit description, it lists two devourers with brain leech worms as a single item.

Just checking, sorry if this has come up before!

Razerous wrote:
Can one replace both set of Monstrous scything talons for a Hive Tyrant with two sets of two brain leech worm devourers?

Because in the unit description, it lists two devourers with brain leech worms as a single item.

Just checking, sorry if this has come up before!

Yup - you replace a Pair of Scytals with 2x Brainleech Devourers (but do Slimer Deathspitters instead, for slightly more they're worth it!). You can do so twice for 4 total Devs/DSes if you choose.

Benlisted wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Can one replace both set of Monstrous scything talons for a Hive Tyrant with two sets of two brain leech worm devourers?

Because in the unit description, it lists two devourers with brain leech worms as a single item.

Just checking, sorry if this has come up before!

Yup - you replace a Pair of Scytals with 2x Brainleech Devourers (but do Slimer Deathspitters instead, for slightly more they're worth it!). You can do so twice for 4 total Devs/DSes if you choose.

Fair doos! I guess the issue is you loose out on any melee biomorphs (besides the 1A tail) and a hive tyrant is a beatstick in melee.. but will just be AP0 Str user?

Razerous wrote:

Benlisted wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Can one replace both set of Monstrous scything talons for a Hive Tyrant with two sets of two brain leech worm devourers?

Because in the unit description, it lists two devourers with brain leech worms as a single item.

Just checking, sorry if this has come up before!

Yup - you replace a Pair of Scytals with 2x Brainleech Devourers (but do Slimer Deathspitters instead, for slightly more they're worth it!). You can do so twice for 4 total Devs/DSes if you choose.

Fair doos! I guess the issue is you loose out on any melee biomorphs (besides the 1A tail) and a hive tyrant is a beatstick in melee.. but will just be AP0 Str user?

Correct, without any melee weapons you attack at Str user and AP0.

I'm struck by just how much S8 and S9 shooting we have access to now.

3 Warriors with a venom cannon is around 90 points. A Prime is a bit over 100. Rounding up, 9 Warriors with 3 cannons at 300, x 3 squads, plus a Prime-27 Warrior bodies, 9 cannons, all hitting on 3's for less than 1000 points. Might not be tournament winning, but could be fun try out.

babelfish wrote:
I'm struck by just how much S8 and S9 shooting we have access to now.

3 Warriors with a venom cannon is around 90 points. A Prime is a bit over 100. Rounding up, 9 Warriors with 3 cannons at 300, x 3 squads, plus a Prime-27 Warrior bodies, 9 cannons, all hitting on 3's for less than 1000 points. Might not be tournament winning, but could be fun try out.

Shoot, you can build a Patrol and get a +1 Command point, HQ Prime, Warrior Brood+ Cannon, x3 Lots of Dakka, and Synapse.

Right now I am pondering a Spearhead: HQ Old One Eye, Carnifex; twin Scythes x2 Adrenal, x3 +1 CP

I'm thinking for carnifex the classic screamer-killer is a huge winner for us. 2x scytal, bone mace, bio plasma and adrenal glands is 103 points. That gets you 6 s6 ap-3 dam3 attacks in combat (4 base plus bonus attack from each set of talons... they are going to need to FAQ that wording) that reroll 1 to hits. They aren't the anti vehicle wrecking balls they once were. Now they are more for mulching enemy elite units like Primaris marines, banners, apothecary/painboy/techmarine type units. The bio plasma helps to soften targets a bit, but not much else. I'm not sure on bone mace or scythe tail, I just went for the budget option.

Go for the slightly more expensive tail option. It allows you to attack with all of your attacks instead of having to waste one on the bone mace, plus the thresher scythe is great vs big units

I second using Thresher Scythe. If you're fighting a unit like ork boyz with a lot of weak models, then I think the extra attack potential from the Thresher Scythe will be worthwhile. You can divide 1 attack to each set of Talons (giving you 4 attacks) and then use the other 2 attacks with the Thresher Scythe. Giving you a total of 4 + 2d3 attacks.

Funny thing I realized.

In 7th we payed 150 points for a dakkafex, which basically was 16.67 points per hit (9 hits).

Now the same build cost around 100 points for 6 hits, which means we still have around same amount of points per hit.

GodDamUser wrote:
I think biggest thing to think about with Tyranids and GSC

Is that unless you are going a Monster/vehicle list you are most likely going to be going 2nd.

A lot of armies will be going MSU. Guard are going to have a ton of drops.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.

Your argument basically comes down to them saying units and not models. RAI "replace models that have been destroyed" obviously falls under the category of "replace units that have been destroyed". Did you unironically think that wasnt the case?

Not sure if this has been beaten to death but, Necrons says that you cannot replace models if the whole unit is dead. Wording wise that would make sense because it would in effect be placing a new unit on the table. I agree that Tervigons can replace at no extra cost.

xmbk wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
I think biggest thing to think about with Tyranids and GSC

Is that unless you are going a Monster/vehicle list you are most likely going to be going 2nd.

A lot of armies will be going MSU. Guard are going to have a ton of drops.

I wonder if a lot of armies will really be going MSU. Sure, it gets you extra command point re-rolls (like probably in the 12-15 range) and knowing the value of Fateweaver's re-rolls, I can't state enough that this is important.

However, my "monster mash" list with 6-7 MC still can easily get 7 command points (thank you lictors and Rippers ) and having the ability to choose to go second 100% of the time and go first 86% of the time, unless I'm against an even more big guy focused list, plus having decent first blood protection, I think is absolutely worth sacrificing 5-7 command points.

Would I feel that way if I had 2 command points and they had 9? No definitely not. But I think I have enough and the benefits outweigh the costs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other two reasons why MSU isn't super OP:

1) kill point missions (obviously)
2) you can shoot one thing and charge another. Previously, MSU was excellent because it wasted turns by only letting the opponent kill one unit with each of theirs. Now that it's more of a 2 for 1 special, I don't see MSU being quite as beneficial

 luke1705 wrote:

2) you can shoot one thing and charge another. Previously, MSU was excellent because it wasted turns by only letting the opponent kill one unit with each of theirs. Now that it's more of a 2 for 1 special, I don't see MSU being quite as beneficial

Also split fire. A 30 Termagant blob in 7th fired every shot into a single unit whether that enemy unit had 10 models or 1. Now I can shoot 5 at the unit of 1 guy and 25 at another. Larger units have becomes significantly more flexible.

One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

I can say 1 blob of Termagants with 1 Tervigon is underwhelming. But get 2 Tervigons with 3 30 man blobs of gants and they become a nightmare. Stick that in front of a living artillery node (biovores and exocrine with Warriors to act as back field synapse and fire off their cannons) and I think a shooty Nid list would be down right vicious.

 Lance845 wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

I can say 1 blob of Termagants with 1 Tervigon is underwhelming. But get 2 Tervigons with 3 30 man blobs of gants and they become a nightmare. Stick that in front of a living artillery node (biovores and exocrine with Warriors to act as back field synapse and fire off their cannons) and I think a shooty Nid list would be down right vicious.

Oooh, tempting! I mean, happily retreating your wall 'o Gants from any combats they absorb, replenishing them, and letting your shooters continue to work those targets, does sound very fun.

Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

You're not adding the 4 points from flesh hooks and rending claws

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

You're not adding the 4 points from flesh hooks and rending claws

Gotcha OK cheers, what do you choose?

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

You're not adding the 4 points from flesh hooks and rending claws

Gotcha OK cheers, what do you choose?

Deathleaper is just perfect as an annoyance and tying up a shooting unit for a turn. His character "teleport homer" allows him to practically reach every unit in the enemy army.
Lictors are good as well but still need to do 9" on 2D6", albeit re-rolling the dice (one or both, your choice) and are even less resistant to shooting

Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

My new starter list I am painting up is 1k. Swarm lord 30 hormagants and a carnifex with adrenal/double scytal for melee hammer and a tervigon, 30 termagants (or two squads of 15) and a squad of Tyranid Warriors with a venom cannon and deathspitters for the backfield. I know it's not spamhammer but seems fun and very much in the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Considering we will play 4x4 tables for 1k points as well

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

 luke1705 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

Retreating isn't a problem with Genestealers. Any unit they hit is already dead .

I've played a few games, and stealers are just really really good. I can imagine a few armies that would do well against them (Man spam guard could speed bump and then shoot them a lot pretty well), but for certain armies I'm having trouble thinking what could be done. Space marines have costlier models, and not many SM players are rocking like 30 or 40 scouts just to run enough bubble wrap.

stratigo wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

Retreating isn't a problem with Genestealers. Any unit they hit is already dead .

I've played a few games, and stealers are just really really good. I can imagine a few armies that would do well against them (Man spam guard could speed bump and then shoot them a lot pretty well), but for certain armies I'm having trouble thinking what could be done. Space marines have costlier models, and not many SM players are rocking like 30 or 40 scouts just to run enough bubble wrap.

Genestealers are really good. Give them 'Catalyst' and they're hard to stop even for guard. Lasguns need a 4+ to hit, 5+ to wound, genestealers get 5+ inv save, 5+ feel no pain. I like to combine them with hormagaunts so that the Guard player got to focus at shooting genestealers and get assaulted with hormagaunts that use a 6 inch pile in/consolidate followed by a few MC's.

So I'm returning to 40k for 8th and new to the thread, but has anyone mentioned monstrous rending claws on a hive tyrant? It seems like the best melee option by far considering it's free and has the rending/toxin synergy going on with 6s to wound. Coming from AoS, Biovores and Spore mines seem awesome because of reliable mortal wounds (even if a small number), messing with deep strike deployments when you miss (the enemy won't be able to shoot the mines until after their movement phase) and because they are an extremely cheap way to fill in a brigade detachment for +9 command; just 162 points to fill the 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support slots required.

Also count me in among those who think Genestealer/Hormagaunt combo is very powerful. Though the cult genestealers seem pretty bad; a hive fleet 'stealer is 16 points with toxin sacs while a purestrain is 18 without and I find cult ambush to be resoundingly meh with them (unless you get a 6).

xmbk wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
I think biggest thing to think about with Tyranids and GSC

Is that unless you are going a Monster/vehicle list you are most likely going to be going 2nd.

A lot of armies will be going MSU. Guard are going to have a ton of drops.

Actually disagree, my list only has 8 drops. Not the lowest but there is a good chance I will get to go first.


My biggest take-away from having played two games against an IG tank list (1 baneblade & 5 Russes) & a Tau Crisis Suit list, is that Tyranid's advantage is from being able to have multiple attack vectors.

Mix of Cult Ambush, Onslaught , Hive Commander, Trygon/Tyrannocyte delivery, flying mc turn 1-2 assault, coupled with superb artillery support. I did not find myself overly dependent on any of the above, but it was the mix and flexibility of the threat vectors that gave me a multiplying advantage during the game. .


tldr, love Tyranids even harder now, everything does something.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So I'm returning to 40k for 8th and new to the thread, but has anyone mentioned monstrous rending claws on a hive tyrant? It seems like the best melee option by far considering it's free and has the rending/toxin synergy going on with 6s to wound. Coming from AoS, Biovores and Spore mines seem awesome because of reliable mortal wounds (even if a small number), messing with deep strike deployments when you miss (the enemy won't be able to shoot the mines until after their movement phase) and because they are an extremely cheap way to fill in a brigade detachment for +9 command; just 162 points to fill the 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support slots required.

Also count me in among those who think Genestealer/Hormagaunt combo is very powerful. Though the cult genestealers seem pretty bad; a hive fleet 'stealer is 16 points with toxin sacs while a purestrain is 18 without and I find cult ambush to be resoundingly meh with them (unless you get a 6).

I would wait for a FAQ confirming that the Rending claw on HT for free is not a misprint. Weapons at 0 points are either base troop weapons (fleshborers, boltguns and such) or strong weapons that are available to a single model and for that they are already included in the cost of that mode (like all the weapons of the haruspex).
Since in 7th the only model with those claws was the broodlord, i think there is a misprint in the monstrous bio weapon list. Rending claws shouldn't be there.

Spoletta wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So I'm returning to 40k for 8th and new to the thread, but has anyone mentioned monstrous rending claws on a hive tyrant? It seems like the best melee option by far considering it's free and has the rending/toxin synergy going on with 6s to wound. Coming from AoS, Biovores and Spore mines seem awesome because of reliable mortal wounds (even if a small number), messing with deep strike deployments when you miss (the enemy won't be able to shoot the mines until after their movement phase) and because they are an extremely cheap way to fill in a brigade detachment for +9 command; just 162 points to fill the 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support slots required.

Also count me in among those who think Genestealer/Hormagaunt combo is very powerful. Though the cult genestealers seem pretty bad; a hive fleet 'stealer is 16 points with toxin sacs while a purestrain is 18 without and I find cult ambush to be resoundingly meh with them (unless you get a 6).

I would wait for a FAQ confirming that the Rending claw on HT for free is not a misprint. Weapons at 0 points are either base troop weapons (fleshborers, boltguns and such) or strong weapons that are available to a single model and for that they are already included in the cost of that mode (like all the weapons of the haruspex).
Since in 7th the only model with those claws was the broodlord, i think there is a misprint in the monstrous bio weapon list. Rending claws shouldn't be there.

It definitely seems like an oversight, but until they FAQ it to say otherwise...

Maybe already addressed:

Also weird that Tyrant guard got a minimum of 3(-6) models in their stats but in the point-stats the can have only 1-3. Also don't no how to deploy the deathleaper if the character is completely blocked within 6 inch. Gw -> FAQ please...

What do you guys think of gargoyls and the flying tyranids in general?

Also made a list using a brigade detachment:

4x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands
5x3 Ripper Swarms
5 Genstealers
3x Liktors
2x Harpies with Stranglethorn Cannon
1x Drude with Flamer
20x Gargoyles (or maybe 2x10 Gargs)
3x Mawlocs

Should be near 2000 points, if i haven't forgot something.

Hope i don't miscalculated something here^^. What do you think of it? Decent list or more crap?


Update: Forget it messed up by adding the points, as i forgot to add all the options to the models.

But made a new list and i hope this time it's right

Supreme Command Detachment
3x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Talons
1x Lictor with Rending Claws, Talons

Outrider Detachment
1x Hivetyrant with Wings, double Talons
3x Lictors with Rending Claws, Talons each
1 Hivecrone with Tentaclids, Winged Talons, Droolcannon
2x Harpies with Sporeminecluster, Stranglethorn Cannon, Winged Talons
30x Gargoyles with Fleshborer Guns (could also split them in 3 groups of 10 if it's more effective)
2x Mawloc with Tailweapon and tripple Scything Talons

Should be around 1820 points. Hope this time i got it right =). What do you think of it?

 Lance845 wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

I can say 1 blob of Termagants with 1 Tervigon is underwhelming. But get 2 Tervigons with 3 30 man blobs of gants and they become a nightmare. Stick that in front of a living artillery node (biovores and exocrine with Warriors to act as back field synapse and fire off their cannons) and I think a shooty Nid list would be down right vicious.

I would also consider Hive Guard. Impaler Cannons are a great source of S8 at range, and would nicely synergize with the shooty build.

Thinking of starting Tyranids. Here's the first 1,00 points I'm considering:

Battalion Detachment =3 Command Points
1 Broodlord
19 Genestealers,w/rending claws
1 Tyrannocyte, 5 Venom Cannons
1 Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
3 Biovores

(993 Points)

To bring it up to 2,000 I would add:

1 Flying Hive Tyrant, Monstrous Boneswords, 2 Deathspitters w/Slimer Maggots
1 Deathleaper
1 Harpy, Stinger Salvo, 2 Hvy Venom Cannons
1 Exocrine
1 Exocrine
Add toxin sacs to the previous list Genestealers to make the remaining points

(1,999 Points)

 Darksider wrote:
What do you guys think of gargoyls and the flying tyranids in general?

Also made a list using a brigade detachment:

4x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands
5x3 Ripper Swarms
5 Genstealers
3x Liktors
2x Harpies with Stranglethorn Cannon
1x Drude with Flamer
20x Gargoyles (or maybe 2x10 Gargs)
3x Mawlocs

Should be near 2000 points, if i haven't forgot something.

I like the concept and may run something close to it due to having more Tyrants with wings than is appropriate. I have a few things I might change.

I would consider running the Tyrants as single talon with a pair of deathspitters. You give up the extra CC attack to gain some decent shooting. Remeber that you don't have to shoot at the same target as you charge anymore, so you could in theory cripple/kill two squads a turn. Most units that can survive a Tyrant in CC are not worried about the extra single swing-a double talon Tyrant kills the same things a single talon Tyrant does, and gets munched by the same things a single talon Tyrant gets munched by.

5 Genestealers isn't going to do much by themselves, especially as you don't have a delivery mechanism for them. 3 Warriors with a cannon costs about the same amount of points, and will be more useful due to being able to plink while camping an objective. Alteratly, 6x Rippers fills the Troops slots cheaply.

I assume Drude with flamer = Pyrovore, in which case the same applies: in order to be useful you need more of them and a way to get them to their targets (I.e. a pod). If you mean Hive Crone, Crones are mev, a Harpy would be better.

The Stranglethorn cannon on Harpies is not good. Venom Cannons are better.

Trygons/Mawlocs are some of my favorite models in the game. Trygons look superior to Mawlocs so far. I would be very interested in hearing how the triple Mawloc works out for you on the table.

The 2x10 vs 1x20 Gargs feels like a toss up to me. 2x10 can engage more targets, but 10 Gargs only hit so hard. The new split fire rules mean that it is harder to force a unit to overkill small squads, so that advantage doesn't apply. Big squads can be chained back to bubbles like synapse or Venomthrope, but your synapse is fast and you don't have venom. Try both and see which works better?

 Darksider wrote:


Hope i don't miscalculated something here^^. What do you think of it? Decent list or more crap?


Update: Forget it messed up by adding the points, as i forgot to add all the options to the models.

But made a new list and i hope this time it's right

Supreme Command Detachment
3x Hivetyrants with Wings, double Talons
1x Lictor with Rending Claws, Talons

Outrider Detachment
1x Hivetyrant with Wings, double Talons
3x Lictors with Rending Claws, Talons each
1 Hivecrone with Tentaclids, Winged Talons, Droolcannon
2x Harpies with Sporeminecluster, Stranglethorn Cannon, Winged Talons
30x Gargoyles with Fleshborer Guns (could also split them in 3 groups of 10 if it's more effective)
2x Mawloc with Tailweapon and tripple Scything Talons

Should be around 1820 points. Hope this time i got it right =). What do you think of it?

Same comments as above on Tyrants, Harpy/Crone, Mawlocs, Gargoyle unit size. Harpies are 2x on the Stranglethorn/Venom Cannon. I don't think you can take only one cannon, and you have to pay for both.

Gaming groups are going to vary, but it looks like the standard game size is going up. Might be worth your time to bump the list to 2000.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 D6Damager wrote:
Thinking of starting Tyranids. Here's the first 1,00 points I'm considering:

Battalion Detachment =3 Command Points
1 Broodlord
19 Genestealers,w/rending claws
1 Tyrannocyte, 5 Venom Cannons
1 Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 Venom Cannon, 3 Deathspitters, all w/rending claws
3 Biovores

(993 Points)

To bring it up to 2,000 I would add:

1 Flying Hive Tyrant, Monstrous Boneswords, 2 Deathspitters w/Slimer Maggots
1 Deathleaper
1 Harpy, Stinger Salvo, 2 Hvy Venom Cannons
1 Exocrine
1 Exocrine
Add toxin sacs to the previous list Genestealers to make the remaining points

(1,999 Points)

I like scything talons on the tyrant more than I like the boneswords. Conversely, I like boneswords on the prime more than I like rending.

The Tyrant benefits from rerolling ones more than he does the extra attack-with how hard he hits protecting yourself from wiffing with a bad roll is more valuable than a extra swing. The Prime doesn't put out enough attacks to make rending worth it, and I am not super excited about lash/sword. That opinion may change as the edition goes on, depending on how many things get to hit out of sequence.

Instead of toxin on the 'stealers at 2k, I suggest dropping the pod for a Trygon. If you can make it work at 1k, I would drop the pod for a Trygon there as well. The Trygon is jjust as good at delivering 'stealers and is a much bigger threat.

Regular Boneswords > Regular Talons

Monstrous Talons > Monstrous Boneswords


Also, is anyone planning to use lictor bodyguards to their venomthropes? At -2 to hit from range they'd be pretty hard to move but I'm not sure about the tactical benefits of using a lictor like that.

Spoletta wrote:

I would wait for a FAQ confirming that the Rending claw on HT for free is not a misprint. Weapons at 0 points are either base troop weapons (fleshborers, boltguns and such) or strong weapons that are available to a single model and for that they are already included in the cost of that mode (like all the weapons of the haruspex).
Since in 7th the only model with those claws was the broodlord, i think there is a misprint in the monstrous bio weapon list. Rending claws shouldn't be there.

Hive Tyrants shipped with plastic rending claws on the monstrous creature sprue (eg the one the previous warrior kit had until last edition) for 3 editions and have had the option for them in every edition I have played in, including 7th (relic talons are an option). I don't think the list is the typo, but the points probably weren't calculated with that in mind. Easy enough for GW to add a (Broodlord) 0 point listing and (Everyone else) X points like they do for many Tyranid upgrades. That's how I suspect this will play out, but either way worth knowing before gluing things.

Aside, I actually built custom hands with claws, just as arm filler on my magnetized hive tyrant. Happy accident they are now 0 point awesome sauce.

stratigo wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

Retreating isn't a problem with Genestealers. Any unit they hit is already dead .

I've played a few games, and stealers are just really really good. I can imagine a few armies that would do well against them (Man spam guard could speed bump and then shoot them a lot pretty well), but for certain armies I'm having trouble thinking what could be done. Space marines have costlier models, and not many SM players are rocking like 30 or 40 scouts just to run enough bubble wrap.

True, but remember this a new set of rules I don't any reason a Speez Mahreenz playa can't toss SoBs or AM into his formation. They all have "Imperium" someplace so they gotz the Wordz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even moreso I expect to see Guard Brigades tossing in a Spearhead, or Vanguard of SMs being a "thing". Or just adding in a unit using Wordz, Orders won't help them, but it is both "fluffy" and competative.

Are Biovores very very good?

If the can't move within 1" of an enemy model is a thing, then yes, I feel they are.

Damage wise... 2+ to mortal wound, i.e. no save.

So as an average, 10 hits, 8 wounds (6's are D3 so winner is you but rare, ofc.). That's more like 16 hits for an equivalent weapon (or 60% better?) vs the most likely situation where Str = Toughness, i.e. 4+ to wound.

The missing though, is where it really starts to shine. You get to place it, within a 3-6" halo around the target, which can really impact units that don't have the Fly keyword or similar.

(Edit: Looking at the rules, I feel the turn you setup a Spore mine from a missed Biovore shot, I believe you cannot advance.. due to fairness/RAI/RAW but if you could, technically Biovores will virtually never 'miss', as the placed Spore mine uses an advance move in the shooting phase to D6" move into within 3" of an enemy unit > exploding on that coming fight phase.)

Razerous wrote:

(Edit: Looking at the rules, I feel the turn you setup a Spore mine from a missed Biovore shot, I believe you cannot advance.. due to fairness/RAI/RAW but if you could, technically Biovores will virtually never 'miss', as the placed Spore mine uses an advance move in the shooting phase to D6" move into within 3" of an enemy unit > exploding on that coming fight phase.)

Advance happens in the movement phase, so no they cannot

Yes you can still waste turns with spore mines, but now they don't restrict shooting, movement and assault. Now, they would only restrict moving plus shooting or moving plus assault

They restrict deep strike. Clever placement of missed spore mines can seriously screw up deep strikers because they now have to be more than 9" away from it. Also at 24 points per biovore... they really don't need to be very effective to be worth more than their points.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They restrict deep strike. Clever placement of missed spore mines can seriously screw up deep strikers because they now have to be more than 9" away from it. Also at 24 points per biovore... they really don't need to be very effective to be worth more than their points.

Don't forget to add the spore mine launcher. So they're 36 points each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Razerous wrote:
Are Biovores very very good?

They're very good for shooting mortal wounds on the big targets and after a few turns it really starts to add up. But the best thing about them is the fact that they're cheap units to keep in the backfield for babysitting objectives, and when using them as single models you can keep them hidden first turn and got the right amount of units deployed so that you can let the other half of your army come out of reserves (matched play). If the enemy get's first turn then the got nothing to shoot at, maybe a single fat one sticking out his butt behind a tree if the terrain sucks. Small price to pay.