This is just my First Impressions and possible usage of the Space Wolves Army in no particular order. i will try to post a different unit each day. I am placing it under Tactics as there will be Tactical Usage Discussions going on with each unit and will get mote in depth as time goes on.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 8th Edition Space Wolf First Impressions (Canis Wolfborn) Name: Canis Wolfborn
FOC:HQ KEYWORDS: Imperium, Adeptus Astartes, Space Wolves
FACTION KEYWORDS: Cavalry, Character, Thunderwolf, Wolf Guard, Canis Wolfborn.
UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
Movement: 10”
Weapon Skill: 2+
Ballistic Skill: 5+
Strength: 4
Toughness: 5
Wounds: 6
Attacks: 4 (5)
Leadership: 8
Save: 3+
WARGEAR: >2 Wolf Claws: (Melee, Hits on a 2+, S5, AP-2, Damage 1, May Re-Roll Failed Rolls to Wound and Gain +1 Attack because he has two)
>Bolt Pistol: (12” Pistol-1, Hits on a 5+, S4, AP-0, Damage-1)
>Frag Grenades: (6” Grenade-d6, Hits on a 5+, S3, AP-0, Damage-1)
>Krak Grenades: (6” Grenade-1, Hits on a 5+, S6, AP-1, Damage 1d3
>Thunderwolf: Crushing Claws and Teeth (Melee, Hits on a 2+, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Makes 3 Attacks after Canis Wolfborn makes his)
Abilities: >Alpha Predator: Can Re-Roll Failed Charges with Canis Wolfborn.
>ATSKNF: May Re-Roll Moral Checks
>Born of Wolves: Thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves can make one Additional Attack if withing 6” of Canis Wolfborn.
>Champion of the Deathwolves: Friendly Space Wolves can Re-Roll Wound Rolls of 1.
>You may only have 1 Canis Wolfborn in your Army.
What does all of this mean? From what I have seen he is a Melee Death Machine. He and his Thunderwolf will rarely miss in Melee and have a good chance of wounding anything with all the Re-Rolls. If you can get withing I would say 5”-7” of an Enemy unit he will more likely make a successful charge.
However he does have two failing I can see, he could not shoot his way out of a burlap sack and does not have an invulnerable save. He needs to be supported by other units.
What he does for everyone else? While he helps all of his fellow Space Wolves only two truly benefit from him, Fenrisian Wolves and Thunderwolves.
What do others do for him? A Wolf Priest on a Bike would do him a lot of good
A Rune Priest on a Bike with the Storm Caller and Tempest Wrath will help him survive Shooting.
Harald Deathwolf would only be good if he was with Canis Wolfborn and a Pack of Fenrisian Wolves and/or Thunderwolf Cavalry for his leadership. Though his Re-Roll 1s To-Hit would almost guarantee all your Melee Attacks would hit.
Uses and Abuses: If you noticed I did not talk about any of the other type of Space Wolf Units other than Fenrisian Wolves, Thunderwolf Cavalry and the Wolf Priest and Rune Priest on Bikes. The reason is he does little for any of the other units and even then only the Thunderwolves of the Thunderwolf Cavalry.
>Fluffy: Take with one or more Packs of Fenrisian Wolves to hide in. With him in their mitts the Fuzzballs with Teeth will not only have 4 Attacks with Re-Rolls for Damage (and if you work in a Wolf Lord To-Hits).
>Thunderwolf Cavalry: Another Good choice as a body Guard as you could toss in a few Storm Shield to take those Las-Cannon Shots, but Wolf Lord would be a better choice I think.
>Grenades: If you are withing 6” of an Infantry Unit, toss the Grenade. While it has a lower Strength than the Bolt Pistol, it give you more chances to hit. Not that shooting is going to be a big thing as you are most likely going to be surrounded by Fenrisian Wolves and unless someone have figured out how to mount Frekin’ Las-Guns to there heads there is not going to be any other Shooting going on.
Soo is this going to be a thread for introducing a unit per day or more open to discussion about 8th edition tactics?
If the latter, are power armor Wolf Guard still a bit meh? I don't see much difference to 7th except slightly cheaper equipment (SS for 5pts is nice).. Always wanted to build a pack of them but I don't know it's still worth it. Opinions?
Weazel wrote: Soo is this going to be a thread for introducing a unit per day or more open to discussion about 8th edition tactics?
If the latter, are power armor Wolf Guard still a bit meh? I don't see much difference to 7th except slightly cheaper equipment (SS for 5pts is nice).. Always wanted to build a pack of them but I don't know it's still worth it. Opinions?
How would you kit out a pack of 8-10 models?
It will be a day by day thing for the most part.
As for how to lit out a pack...you will have to see.
Name: Power Armored Wolf Guard
FOC: Elite
KEYWORDS: Imperium, Adeptus Astartes, Space Wolves
FACTION KEYWORDS: Infantry, Wolf Guard
UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Wolf Guard Pack Leader and 4-9 Basic Wolf Guard
Basic Wolf Guard: Movement: 6”
Weapon Skill: 3+
Ballistic Skill: 3+
Strength: 4
Toughness: 4
Wounds: 1
Attacks: 2
Leadership: 8
Save: 3+
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Movement: 6”
Weapon Skill: 3+
Ballistic Skill: 3+
Strength: 4
Toughness: 4
Wounds: 1
Attacks: 2
Leadership: 8
Save: 3+
WARGEAR: All start with a Bolt Gun, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades and Krak Grenades.
>Bolt Gun: (24” Rapid Fire-1, Hits on a 3+, S4, AP-0, Damage-1)
>Bolt Pistol: (12” Pistol-1, Hits on a 3+, S4, AP-0, Damage-1)
>Flamer:
>Frag Grenades: (6” Grenade-d6, Hits on a 3+, S3, AP-0, Damage-1)
>Krak Grenades: (6” Grenade-1, Hits on a 3+, S6, AP-1, Damage 1d3
>Melta Gun:
>Plasma Gun:
>Plasma Pistol:
>Storm Bolter: (24” Rapid Fire-2, Hit on a 3+, S4, AP-0, Damage-1)
Melee Weapons: >Chainsword: (Melee, Hits on a 3+, S4, AP-0, Damage-1, Each time the wielder fights he may make an extra Attack)
>Frost Axe: (Melee, Hits on a 3+, S6, AP-2, Damage-1)
>Frost Sword: (Melee, Hits on a 3+, S5, AP-3, Damage-1)
>Lighting Claw: (Melee, Hits on a 3+, S4, AP-2, Damage-1, You can Re-Roll failed Attempts to wound, If you are armed with 2 you can make an extra attack)
>Power Axe: (Melee, Hits on a 3+, S5, AP-2, Damage-1)
>Power Fist: (Melee, Hits on a 4+, S8, AP-3, Damage-1d3
>Power Maul: (Melee, Hits on a 3+, S6, AP-1, Damage-1)
>Power Sword: (Melee, Hits on a 3+, S4, AP-3, Damage-1)
>Thunder Hammer: (Melee, Hits on a 4+, S8, AP-3, Damage-3)
>Wolf Claws: (Melee, S5, AP-2, Damage-1, May make 1 Additional Attack and Re-Roll failed Damage Rolls)
WARGEAR Options: >Any Model may Replace their Bolt Gun with a Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire-2, Hit on a 3+, S4, AP-0, Damage-1), Combi-Flamer, Combi-Melta, Combi-Plasma.
>Any Model may Take and Item from the Space Wolf Melee List (Chain Sword.
>Any Model may replace his Bolt Pistol with a Storm Shield (3++ Save) or Plasma Pistol.
>The entire unit may take Jump Packs giving them a 12” move and the Jump and Fly Keywords.
Abilities:
>ATSKNF: May Re-Roll Moral Checks
>Jump Pack Assault: May start in Reserves and Deep Strike.
What does all of this mean? Wolf Guard can take up a few Roles on the Battlefield, Take on All Comers (TAC), Close Assault, Gunline.
What does others do for them? >Arjac Rockfist: Can give you Re-Rolls on any 1s rolled for Wounds if within 6”.
>Bjorn The Fell Handed: Last of the Company of Russ: Re-Roll 1s To Hit.
>Krom Dragongaze: Jarl of Fenris: Re-Roll 1s To Hit, The Fierce -Eye: Enemies are at -1 Leadership.
>Logan Grimnar: Chapter Maser: Re-Roll Failed To Hits, High King of Fenris: Immune to Moral
>Lukas The Trickster: Master of Mischief: All units within 3” must subtract 1 from their leadership. (This could be real good for low Leadership Units)
>Njal Stormcaller and Rune Priest: Help Defend against Psychic Attacks, Storm Caller can give them a 2+ Save, Tempest Wrath can make it harder to be hit.
>Ragnar Blackmane: War Howl: Re-Roll Failed Charges, Jarl of Fenris: Re-Roll 1s To Hit.
>Ulrik The Slayer: Healing Balms can return Wounds, Slayer’s Oath: Re-Roll Failed to Hits and possibly Re-Rolls of 1 on Rolls to Wound, Wolf Helm of Russ: Use his Leadership of 9.
>Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Huskarl to the Jarl: Re-Roll 1s To Hit.
>Wolf Lord: Jarl of Fenris: Re-Roll 1s To Hit
>Wolf Priest: Healing Balms can return Wounds, Oath of War: Re-Roll Failed to Hits in the Fight Phase. Spiritual Leader: Use his Leadership of 9.
Transports >Drop Pod: A way to Deep Strike 10 (1-2 Packs) of your Wolf Guard without taking Jump-Packs. If you have someone like Ragnar with you consider charging anyways, with the Re-Roll you have decent chance of making it.
>Land Raider (God-Hammer): A Tank to take your 10 (1-2 Packs) Wolf Guard into Battle.
>Land Raider Crusader: A Very Shooty Tank to take up to 16 Wolf Guard (1-3 Packs + Extras?) into Battle.
>Land Raider Excelsior: Can take 10 Wolf Guard (1-2 Packs?) into battle with a few Special Abilities.
>Land Raider Redeemer: Transports up to 12 Wolf Guard (1-2 Packs?) while dishing out a mix of hot death and fiery death.
>Razorback: Can hold 6 Wolf Guard and give you some firepower while you are at it.
>Rhino Primaris: Transport up to 6 Wolf Guard and some special Abilities.
>Rhino: Simple and basic way to Transport up to 10 (1-2 Packs) Wolf Guard.
>Stormfang Gunship: A flier that can transport 6 Models. A good way to get your Wolf Guard across the Battlefield Quickly.
>Stormwolf: A flier that can transport 16 (1-3 Packs with extras?) Models. A good way to get your Wolf Guard across the Battlefield Quickly.
Uses and Abuses: I think it depends on what you want to do with them.
>TAC Simple and Cheap: Don’t add any Wargear or very little. Maybe a few Combi-Weapons and a Frost Axe, Power Fist or Thunder Hammer for the tough targets, but since everything can be wounded on a 6...just don’t expect them to take down anything tougher than a Dreadnaught.
>TAC Simple Mix and Match: Give each one a ‘Special Weapon’, but only one per model except for maybe Chainswords. A couple of Combi-Plasmas or Combi-Meltas, A Power Weapon here and there and a few Storm Shields to Tank Shots.
>TAC Super Fluffy Damn the points we are using Power Levels Anyway: Give each one two of everything as a mix. One has a Thunder Hammer and Combi-Flamer and another a Wolf Claw and a Plasma Pistol. You just want to make sure each has a ranged weapons of some kind and a Melee Weapon.
>Assault Simple and Cheep: Just give each a Chainsword with a Frost/Power Sword or a Power Fist or thunder Hammer thrown in, if that. Toss them in a Flier or Drop Pod and get them close as fast as you can. If you can toss in a Wolf Priest, Wolf Guard Battle Leader or named Character to give them a boost.
>Assault Mix and Match: Give each a Chain Sword or Power Weapon. Toss in a Storm Shield here and there. Maybe a couple of Combi-Flamers, add a Drop Pods or a Stormwolf.
>Assault Super Fluffy Damn the points we are using Power Levels Anyway: Just go for it, take what ever you want. Just make sure each one if different in some way and you should be able to deal with most things.
>Gunline Simple and Cheep: Don’t buy them anything, they don’t need it. You will most likely be starting in some sort of cover giving you a 2+ save.
>Gunline Mix and Match: Take about half with Combi-Weapons of some sort as they are amazingly good now. I personally would go with 2 of each. This could also work well with a Drop Pod Assault especially with Combi-Meltas and Combi-Plasmas.
>Gunline Super Fluffy Damn the points we are using Power Levels Anyway: Combi-Weapons for everyone or at least Storm Bolters. You could either hide in Cover and wait for the enemy to come to you and let them have it or step out of the Pod and give them 20 Bolter Shots followed up by 20
Plasma Shots, I would even consider Over-Charging them based on how the Bolters did.
Do it think they are worth it, Yes! I had started using a Pack of 10 armed with just Bolt Pistols and Chainswords with Ragnar and a Wolf Priest out of a Stormwolf at the end of 6th and I could do some quick and devastating damage to Soft Targets, I even killed a few tanks with just Krak Grenades.
While some of the dynamics have changed they have a lot of attacks (20-30) especially if armed with Chain Swords. A 3+ save also means something now vs special/heavy weapons. It might take a bit to figure out how they work best for you (That is one of the biggest things I think) and how you play.
What I think they bring is a hard hitting force to your army, but only if you use them right. If you tool them up for Anti-Monster/Vehicle work they will still function vs hordes still, just not as well.
I have toyed with the thought of making an All Wolf Guard Army mixing the tree types of builds. It would be a smaller more Elite army than Space Wolves already are, but the combinations that each one could be built with makes them an unpredictable one which I see as a strong point.
You'd wind up with something akin to Deathwatch or Grey Knights. Maybe a few more models, less varied firepower, more varied melee weaponry.
What you can do that neither DW or GK can is pack cheap bodies in the form of Fenrisian Wolves.
Dakka Wolf wrote: You'd wind up with something akin to Deathwatch or Grey Knights. Maybe a few more models, less varied firepower, more varied melee weaponry.
What you can do that neither DW or GK can is pack cheap bodies in the form of Fenrisian Wolves.
I will get to them after doing Lukas Tomorrow.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Stuff came up. I will get to Lukas tonight or tomorrow.
The way you are writing everything out makes it really hard to read. I would probably just highlight the few things that makes each unit interesting / useful. Most people will have the rules and can look the unit up and read along.
Also, it is hard to look at units in vacuum the way you are doing.
A unit is only good if another unit can't do what it does better. In my opinion most of the load-outs you list for Wolf Guard are frankly not good at all. Just because a load-out is possible doesn't mean you should try to make it look good if its not, as new players might take your advice and end up regretting it. I don't think many people will be playing with the Power levels, so i would gear most strategic thoughts towards points, and stress that most units are better off with the minimum effective upgrades.
All that being said, it seems to me that the main reasons to take Wolf Guard are the below:
1. They are good at assault (like grey hunters, they get free chainswords that don't replace anything. They also get 1 more attack than grey hunters, so they get 3 attacks on the charge.
2. They can take a lot of Combi-Weapons
3. They can take a lot of power weapons (which are cheap now)
4. They can take jump packs (100% better than a drop pod)
So i really only see 2 reasonable loadouts for them. Anything else either costs too much, or grey hunters/Blood claws can do it about as well.
1. Jump pack Combi-Suicide unit: Melta/Plasma suicide units got worse this edition, but 5 meltas should kill most tanks, and 5 plasma will really mess up most units. This unit can also charge if it wants to, thought without anyway except Ragnar to reroll charge ranges, its not something to count on since you need to roll a 9+ on a 2d6 or somehow have Ragnar nearby, which is why i don't love the idea of assaulty jump pack WG.
2. Assaulting out of a vehicle (land raider, probably, but rhinos could also work) with some power swords / maybe a couple fists. You can also throw in Ragnar here to help them and anything other nearby units out on that charge roll, or (this is probably better) a wolf priest to let them re-roll their hits. This unit should really tear a lot of things apart, I could see this variant being useful in some kind of 40-50 marines in rhinos list, or in a land raider with TWC or Wulfen etc.
The problem with the wolf guard units in general are that it is temping to load them up with points that do not really make them any harder to kill, so i think it is important to either just take a few combi's, or just take a few power weapons. If you want more assault units, or more shooty units, you can buy them seperately, which has almost always been the better choice in 40k.
Canis seems scary, but not having an invul save kinda sucks, and the extra attacks are just for the Crushing teeth and Claws, so really mostly only benifit a unit of Fen Wolves. Not amazing, but not terrible if you plan on taking a lot of Fen Wolves. Otherwise I think Harald Deathwolf or just a Wolf Lord or WGBL on a wolf would be better.
Anyway those are my thoughts and keep up the good work!
Wolf Scouts are finally unique and elite!!!
Just like the normal Scout Marine but lacking Combat Squad and the 9' from enemy deployment zone abilities.
Instead they get Behind Enemy Lines enabling the Wolf Scouts to deploy at the end of the movement phase an inch from any board edge as long as they're at least 9' from any enemy unit.
I just wanted to make a quick note on the three levels of play. I am trying not to discuss it as it is a hot blooded talking points for a lot of people. I am going to be vague for the most part using terms like cheap and expensive. My group plans on just using Power Levels for the most part.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jcd386 wrote: Lots of good info here, but a couple comments:
The way you are writing everything out makes it really hard to read. I would probably just highlight the few things that makes each unit interesting / useful. Most people will have the rules and can look the unit up and read along.
Well I am trying to put out everything...I will try something Different with Lukas, not worry about the Mechanical and just talk about what he can do.
Also, it is hard to look at units in vacuum the way you are doing.
I had this the first time I did this, but as time went on and I got more familiar with each Unit and what they could do, they got more inclusive.
A unit is only good if another unit can't do what it does better. In my opinion most of the load-outs you list for Wolf Guard are frankly not good at all. Just because a load-out is possible doesn't mean you should try to make it look good if its not, as new players might take your advice and end up regretting it. I don't think many people will be playing with the Power levels, so i would gear most strategic thoughts towards points, and stress that most units are better off with the minimum effective upgrades.
Again I was being deliberately vague. Myself I tool them up for Assault with mostly nothing but Bolt Pistols and Chainswords or just go for it and make my decisions based on how cool the model would look with a particular load-out. (Again I am part of a Competitive environment where the Rule of Cool overrides everything. I am though thinking of adding a Gunline PAWG unit loaded up with Combi-Weapons for use with Drop Pods.
All that being said, it seems to me that the main reasons to take Wolf Guard are the below:
1. They are good at assault (like grey hunters, they get free chainswords that don't replace anything. They also get 1 more attack than grey hunters, so they get 3 attacks on the charge.
2. They can take a lot of Combi-Weapons
3. They can take a lot of power weapons (which are cheap now)
4. They can take jump packs (100% better than a drop pod)
So i really only see 2 reasonable loadouts for them. Anything else either costs too much, or grey hunters/Blood claws can do it about as well.
1. Jump pack Combi-Suicide unit: Melta/Plasma suicide units got worse this edition, but 5 meltas should kill most tanks, and 5 plasma will really mess up most units. This unit can also charge if it wants to, thought without anyway except Ragnar to reroll charge ranges, its not something to count on since you need to roll a 9+ on a 2d6 or somehow have Ragnar nearby, which is why i don't love the idea of assaulty jump pack WG.
I don't either, but it has more to do with Fluffy Reasons. The Same thing with Teleporting, we as a group may house rule something, but we don't know quite yet.
Never a fan of Suicide units, but a Plasmaside unit can be real nasty especially if you add someone who can let you Re-Roll 1s like a Wolf Lord or WGBL.
2. Assaulting out of a vehicle (land raider, probably, but rhinos could also work) with some power swords / maybe a couple fists. You can also throw in Ragnar here to help them and anything other nearby units out on that charge roll, or (this is probably better) a wolf priest to let them re-roll their hits. This unit should really tear a lot of things apart, I could see this variant being useful in some kind of 40-50 marines in rhinos list, or in a land raider with TWC or Wulfen etc.
<Insert Evil Wolf Toothy Grin>
My favorite is a Stormwolf.
The problem with the wolf guard units in general are that it is temping to load them up with points that do not really make them any harder to kill, so i think it is important to either just take a few combi's, or just take a few power weapons. If you want more assault units, or more shooty units, you can buy them seperately, which has almost always been the better choice in 40k.
F
Yes, how I keep myself under control it be loading them out like I would Grey Hunters. 1-2 with Special Weapons (Combi-Plasma is my favorite) and 1-2 with Power Weapons. For the most part then I can use my Grey Hunters as PAWG Proxies.
Canis seems scary, but not having an invul save kinda sucks, and the extra attacks are just for the Crushing teeth and Claws, so really mostly only benifit a unit of Fen Wolves. Not amazing, but not terrible if you plan on taking a lot of Fen Wolves. Otherwise I think Harald Deathwolf or just a Wolf Lord or WGBL on a wolf would be better.
Yes the lack of an Invulnerably save is an issue, but that is why I wither used him with either Wolves or Thunderwolves.
Anyway those are my thoughts and keep up the good work!
My initial takeaways (haven't played any games yet)
- Blood Claws continue to be inferior to grey hunters, especially now units can fire rapid fire and charge, grey hunters can have more accurate shooting (especially with special weapons) before the charge, as well as more accurate pistol shooting in the following round of combat
- Wulfens and thunderwolves are super toned down as expected but still very durable and damaging. Wulfens are strangely slightly more durable now because they can take FnP saves on wounds that will previously instant kill them (force weapons, battlecannons, monsters). Wulfens can still wipe the floor with anything short of a greater daemon, and the new wound allocation means the enemy must always churn through those stormshields first. But they are much much more expensive for the same load out
- The glorious return of the missile launcher long fangs: much more accurate shots and D6 damage makes them invaluable in damaging big monsters and vehicles. Stick them in cover to enjoy a healthy 2+ armour save. Or if you're feeling generous, give them a WG terminator with stormshield to tank everything that comes their way (it's only 38 points)
- Storm Caller is an excellent spell when playing aggressive rhino rush, have all the rhinos move forward and pop smoke, then cast Storm Caller, now you've got a wall of super durable rhinos full of very angry grey hunters.
- 43 points gives you a WG terminator with stormshield and frost sword, pretty good all things considered
- Bjorn is an absolute beast, our best option to take down big monsters and vehicles in close combat
I agree with Cont above. It's slightly depressing how much they've changed the wulfen and twolves. Our wolf lords can no longer take runic armor. We've also lost counter attack which was always a huge bonus as well. I have noticed though or at least I can't find anywhere that says wulfen cannot embark in a rhino. They are tagged infantry. The wolves fliers state that they count as two for transport but that's all I can find.
KillaCam wrote: I agree with Cont above. It's slightly depressing how much they've changed the wulfen and twolves. Our wolf lords can no longer take runic armor. We've also lost counter attack which was always a huge bonus as well. I have noticed though or at least I can't find anywhere that says wulfen cannot embark in a rhino. They are tagged infantry. The wolves fliers state that they count as two for transport but that's all I can find.
Not overly worried about Runic Armour, difficult terrain is gone meaning a trip through cover nabs you a 2+ save with no risk to wounds, armour penetration is such a different thing your Storm Shield or Belt of Russ will usually be your save of choice anyway.
The loss of strength ten attacks hurts more.
Lukas the Trickster Ok, now that I got my brain working again and the realization I don’t need to put every piece of information out there because it will be available to everyone, it is onto Loki...sorry Lukas the Trickster.
He looks so much better now.
Here is the good as I see it: He had a 3+ save and 4 wounds making him reasonably resilient if he has Blood Claws near him.
>Plasma Pistol (3+ to Hit): His Plasma Pistol give him a good shot at hurting on at least a 5+ on most things and if you are willing to risk killing yourself wounding T4 Models on a 2+. You will also have a punch during Close Combat.
>Claw of the Jackal-Wolf (2+ to Hit): Unlike the last editions, you are not wasting a second attack by not having a second claw. With the 2+ WS he is not going to miss much in Close Combat with his 4 attacks with his S5 and Re-Rolls for wounding he should be able to wound a lot of models.
>Blood Claws Hero: He basically makes Blood Claw Units near him WS 2+ too making him a good choice as a ‘Nearby Leader’.
>The Last Laugh: With a more than 50% chance of inflicting 1d6 Mortal Wounds, get him into a Close Combat as quick as you can.
>Pelt of the Doppelganger: Here is another reason to get him into to a Fight, other models are -1 to hit him. This will make all of the difference in the world vs some targets (and hours of amusement vs T’au.)
>Master of Mischief (Not as bad as it could be though): Everyone within 3” is now Leadership 8...everyone Friend or Foe...think about it...that 30 model Ork mob with its Leadership 30 is now an 8 (I know this will end up in YMYC), that pack of Frensian Wolves L8 and with ATSKNF your Blood Claws are L8 with a re-roll...not bad.
The Bad as I see it: In the fluff Lukas has been known to use as Jump Pack or Bike (and the occasional Thunderhawk). It would have been nice to give those options too.
No invulnerable save...Well this is what the nearby WGPL with his Storm Shield is for.
Were in the past I could never find the want to use him, now I want to take him, Ragnar, 30 Blood Claws and two Stormwolves and...well hide the children’s eyes...
I wonder if there's a reason so many characters lost their ability to take Fen Wolf bodyguards.
Nice article on Lukas. I've had pretty much identical conclusions - funny thing is I wrote about Lukas when they announced 8th, saying I would pay twenty five points to equip him with a jump pack. He costs nearly fourty points more, has no jump pack and I can't wait to use him.
Dakka Wolf wrote: I wonder if there's a reason so many characters lost their ability to take Fen Wolf bodyguards.
Nice article on Lukas. I've had pretty much identical conclusions - funny thing is I wrote about Lukas when they announced 8th, saying I would pay twenty five points to equip him with a jump pack. He costs nearly fourty points more, has no jump pack and I can't wait to use him.
I think to keep them in line with the while 'Characters' and 'independent Characters' now can not join units, so others can not join them...then I look at the Ork Ammo Runts and wonder.
i think my plan will be to just buy 5 model packs and stick them with Characters who do not already hanging around other units like Lone Wolves and Iron Priest.
Nidzrule! wrote: What do we feel about lone wolves? Feels overcosted to me but happy to hear other opinions.
Can't buy extra wounds - I mean Fen Wolves.
Terminator Armour is the only way of getting them anywhere quickly and that's a one-shot deal.
I think the only thing they're really good for is capturing one objective and Linebreaker.
Plant that bad boy in cover and your opponent is going to have to commit power to forcing him out.
Grey Hunters are your Core of Your Space Wolf Army UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Wolf Guard Pack Leader and 4-9 Basic Wolf Guard. You can also Add a Wolf Guard Pack Leader.
WARGEAR: All start with a Bolt Gun, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades and Krak Grenades.
Loading them up should tell you their job: Basic simple Load Out of just the Bolt Gun and Bolt Pistol makes the descent med range unit. Toss in Chain Swords and you can also be a good Counter Charge unit (will get into that a little farther down). Toss them in a Transport they can take and hold objectives.
Anti-Infantry Work: Take Chainswords and toss in a Flamer or Two. Make sure your Pack Leader takes some sort of Powered Melee Weapon (Myself, I am fond of Power Fist and Combi-Flamers).
Anti-Armor/Anti-MC: Take Chainswords and a pair of Combi-Meltas and have the Pack Leader take a Power Fist and Combi-Melta. Either Drop Pod or Rhino them near your target as quick as you can.
Anti-Most Everything: Chainswords and Plasmas. Have the Pack Leader take the Combi-Plasma. Other options depends on what you are doing with them.
Special Weapons and Combi-Weapons: Keep them all the same, You want Melta, great take all Melta. It might seem to add flexibility to take 2 Melta-Guns and a Combi-Flamer, but then they loose focus. Yes you can shoot the Combi-Flamer at the pesky little Grots that are next to the Truck, but you then loose a potential 1d6 2d6 Damage to the Truck. The Grots get the Bolt Guns. You also do not have to worry about tossing in the Melta-Gun if you need to take on something big, Everything now hurts Everything. Have a Bolt Gun toss a Krak Grenade and the rest light it up. If you chose your target right you will not be in this situation.
Rhino or Drop Pod: Go for 10 Models. If you take the WGPL give him a Combi-Weapon that matches the rest of your Grey Hunter Pack.
Storm Wolf: Take the WGPL and tool him up to match the rest of the Pack.
Razorback: Take the 5 Model Pack and a WGPL. This will still give you Three Special Weapons, well two will be Combi-Weapons.
Wargear you cant leave home without: >Chainswords: I have not found a reason not to take one yet unless you are OCD with your WYSIWYG.
>Wolf Standard: Once more this is another item I see no reason not to take. With it you will not be Charging Less than 4” most of the time.
A number of different ways of using them: >Gunline: Put them in a piece of Terrain for that 2+ save and wait for them to come to you. Take Plasma and your WGPL. Give both Pack Leaders Combi-Plasmas. This will give you a 24” Bubble of S7 attacks.
>Mechanized: The good old Rhino Rush. Multiple Packs in Rhinos look to be hard to counter right now. Also once you disembark you have a large brick to hide behind and follow in like a SWAT team. Let it take the Overwatch Fire and if it has both Storm Bolters it can do some punishment itself.
>Pod Wolves: I think this will be very viable. Sure you have to be more than 9” away when you land, but that is still within Rapid Fire Range. Again a good choice for Plasma-Hunters.
>Assault Focused Hunters: I would say the same applies as most other things I have focused on. Again Chainswords and I would say Flamers. I would not take a Power Fist for the Pack Leader unless you are taking the WBPL.
Notes on the WGPL: I always take one when not being Mechanized or Podding. He gives you an extra wound and gun.
>Combi-Weapon: With the new way they operate, there is no reason not to take one for your WGPL unless you are are looking to take a Storm Shield.
>Terminator Armor: This is a tricky one, but can be put into simple terms, if you want to be Mobile-NO!. He will slow you down either by denying you some Transports, but also by being only a 5” move. If you are going Gunline, sure what the heck.
Couter-Charge: While we lost the ability to truly counter any charge, if you set them up right you can easily set up units to be charged. I when using my Gunline Wolves always place two of mine (Usually my Plasma-Hunters within 6”-8” of my Long Fangs. This gives me a very short range if I want to Assault whoever and give supporting fire. If I need to I can even Assault with my Long Fangs. There is also a Command Point Option I believe that you can use.
Counter-Charge Emphasise your Space Wolfishnes. If you're expecting to recieve charges take a WGPL with Termie armour and a Power Sword, banner the Hunters up, keep some Wulfen close by and welcome those charges with open arms. I'm thinking bubble wrap the Wulfen with Grey Hunters, the Wulfen will be close enough to consolidate into combat but too far away to charge directly.
With their low LD, FenWolves will melt like a snowman in summer. If 4 get killed, you lose automatically 1-6 more models, potentially exterminating a complete 10 model unit.
For this to work you need a babysitter like a Wolf Priest to give them a decent LD or be prepared to throw in 2 CP. And they are not really that cheap with 9 points each.
IG won't benefit from the Wulfen.
Grey Hunters on the other hand, granted they cost a lot more but they also have good armour saves, they have solid shooting and they have the ability to stand up to more threatening assaults.
Fenrisian Wolves UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-15 Models + 1 Cyberwolf
WARGEAR: Teeth And Claws
Cyberwolves UNIT COMPOSITION: 1-5 Models
WARGEAR: Teeth And Claws
Since the 1st Leman Russ figure came out Wolves have been part of the Space Wolf Army. Now with the ‘New WH40k’ they are still here. I am combining the two because almost everything is the same for the most part.
What they got going for them: >They are cheap
>They can come in large numbers, in fact the more there are the Higher their Leadership is. (Except for Cyberwolves)
>They are fast.
>Two Wounds (Cyberwolves Only)
Problems: >Low Armor Save
>Low Leadership
It looks like the best way to use them is as cheap ‘Bubble-Wrap/Meat Shields’ though personally I don’t like using any unit that way.
Characters that help offset their weaknesses: >Wolf Priest: They will give them a Leadership of 9 and can revive 1-3 lost Models each Turn. With the Oath of War you can Re-Roll To Hit Rolls.
>Ulrik The Slayer: He will give them a Leadership of 9 and can revive 1-3 lost Models each Turn. With the Slayer’s Oath there is a chance of Re-Rolling Wounds.
>Herald Deathwolf: He will give them a Leadership of 9. Also Re-Roll To Hit Rolls of 1
>Logan Grimnar: He makes it so you do not need to make Moral Saves. You can also Re-Roll To Hit Rolls.
Other Characters that can help them: >Wolf Lord: Re-Roll To Hit Rolls of 1
>Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Re-Roll Wound Rolls of 1.
>Bjorn The Fell Handed: Re-Roll To Hit Rolls of 1
How I would use them: >Lone Wolf Bodyguard: Take a Pack of 5 (Either) just to give your Lone Wolf a few extra Wounds. 5 For Fenrisian Wolves, 10 for Cyberwolves. Their Low leadership will be an issue, but odds are they will absorb one or two turns and possibly an Overwatch.
>Thunderwolf (or Bike Mounted) Bodyguard: Similar to the Lone Wolf they are there to absorb some of the damage that comes your way or take up an Overwatch. With their speed they can keep up with each other, though they will slow down the Bikes.
>Wolf Priest/Ulrik the Slayer Bodyguard: This will give them a decent Leadership and give you 5-15 wounds to work with that can Regenerate 1d3 wounds a turn.
>Herald Deathwolf: They seemed to be made to go with him. Use your CPs to Give the Wolves the ability to Out-Flank and you could have a nasty surprise and Edge of the board Charge.
>Logan: I just think it would be cool to see Logan standing on a hill overlooking the battle giving commands surrounded by a Mix of Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves.
>Logan Claws: While Logan can be targeted as he rides his Sleigh of Death giving all that deserve it The Axe Morkai to the face it could make for an impressive sight, What the Wolves do is keep Logan from being charged till he is ready to Charge himself.
Overall I don’t expect to see them much in the Competitive Scene other than Fur Covered Meat Shields, for ‘Just For Fun’ games I would use them all the time if I had the models.
Probably just use Fen Wolves when I have points to spare.
They are fast and they do have a respectable melee statline, and five to fifteen models they'll probably be handy for surrounding models and locking them in combat.
Great analysis! I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the Thunderwolves; pricey but I'm really tempted to keep taking them as line-breakers. Also torn on what HQ to bring to the table.
I heard something a while back about spending command points to buy special rules but since I haven't had a full rulebook to browse through so I'm not sure if that's a thing or not.
I heard something a while back about spending command points to buy special rules but since I haven't had a full rulebook to browse through so I'm not sure if that's a thing or not.
I haven't seen anything specifically allowing a unit to outflank...
I heard something a while back about spending command points to buy special rules but since I haven't had a full rulebook to browse through so I'm not sure if that's a thing or not.
I haven't seen anything specifically allowing a unit to outflank...
I think it's only possible in specific missions. But maybe SW will get it as a special strategum in their codex. It's agood candidate, as well as something with Counter Attack
Thunderwolf Cavalry UNIT COMPOSITION: 3-6 Models
WARGEAR: Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Teeth And Claws
1st lets get the bias part out of the way, I love Thunderwolf Cavalry!!!
Ok now that that is out of the way onto the review. They look to be a tough hard hitting melee force at first glance and they fit that role well. With a good move (Bikes are still faster), good save and multiple wounds. With a wide mix of weapons they can take there is not much that can encounter them and not feel their punch.
Keeping them Cheap...ish they will still have an insane number of attacks between their 3 Attacks with their Chain Sword and 3 Attacks from Teeth and Claws.
Options: I will go over these in some detail. >Chain Sword: Good, with the extra Attack you will chew through most basic infantry quickly.
>Frost Axe: Gives you S6, AP-2 Attacks, a good choice for most things, unless it has a T13+ you will be wounding on at least a 5+ and T3 armies on a 2+. It has good armor Penetration too so it is also good for most Monsters and Vehicles.
>Frost Sword: A S5, AP-3 weapon, while not as good at wounding as the Frost Axe, the Penetration is what you are looking for.
>Lighting Claw: Cool a Re-Roll...just get a Wolf Claw.
>Power Axe: Just use a Frost Axe, you are a Space Wolf
>Power Fist: S8, AP-3, 1d3 Damage Weapon. It takes you to a 50/50 chance of hitting, but it might be worth it.
>Power Maul: S6, AP-1...sort of good. I would have to think twice about using one, but if done right would look cool.
>Power Sword: Just use a Frost Sword
>Storm Shield: For a 3++, good to have a few to take those Las-Cannons that Thunderwolves tend to attract.
>Thunder Hammer: S8, AP-3, Damage 3. I would just take these over a Power Fist if you are planing on Monster or Vehicle Hunting. They will hit hard.
>Wolf Claw: S1, AP-2, Re-Roll for wounds...but you would loose any extra attack from not being able to a second one.
Note: I know a lot are feeling dissed that we lost the base S5 from last edition, but it is not necessary. With ID being a relic of the past and the fact that Thunder Hammers now wound 99.9999999% of the things out there on a 5+ I don’t think we are going to miss it a lot.
Bodyguards: I think Thunderwolves will make a great bodyguard for most any model, especially those on Thunderwolves and Bikes, though they will slow down the bike. There are some Characters who will be really good to be near.
>Canis Wolfborn: He gives you an Additional Attack with Teeth and Claws. A few Storm Shields will give Canis that Invulnerable Save he Needs.
>Logan Claws: Stormrider can keep up with the Thunderwolves and give them Re-Rolls, though they will nor be able to take shots for him this will give your an opponent the choice of the Pimped out Sleigh of death or the Thunderwolf Cavalry.
>Herald Deathwolf: Giving you both Re-Rolls and Leadership 9 can make a bid difference.
>Wolf Priest on a Bike: He can keep up with you, give you Re-Rolls, Leadership 9 and can heal you up. (I personally think this is the best choice).
>Bjorn The Fell-Handed: Now here you have a tough model to be a bodyguard for. He can mostly keep up and give you that heavy weapon you are missing.
>Murderfang: You will really be his bodyguard as he gives you nothing but you give him a better chance of making it into Melee.
As for me I will keep mine mostly tooled up the way I always have, everyone with a Storm Shield and most with Chainswords. One with a Thunder Hammer and one with a Frost Sword.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Wulfen already get up the field fast. I'd leave the Drop Pods to Grey Hunters and Long Fangs.
Nothing likes it when five Heavy Bolters land nearby.
100 points for like 500 points to first turn charge, I will take it.
Now I'm kicking myself that I modelled two of my TWC models with bolt pistols instead of chainswords. Oh well, at least I didn't pain them yet so I can still fix them. While we're on the subject of weapons, what weapons would be really good on a Thunderwolf Lord? In 7th, I was thinking Wolf Claw/Powerfist, but now, perhaps a Thunder Hammer and Shield?
ZergSmasher wrote: Now I'm kicking myself that I modelled two of my TWC models with bolt pistols instead of chainswords. Oh well, at least I didn't pain them yet so I can still fix them. While we're on the subject of weapons, what weapons would be really good on a Thunderwolf Lord? In 7th, I was thinking Wolf Claw/Powerfist, but now, perhaps a Thunder Hammer and Shield?
Th/ss is still good on a thunderlord. With the re-rolls it will offset the 3+ to hit. If you want to keep the 2+ to hit go for a frost weapon depending on if you want high strength or AP decides which one.
ZergSmasher wrote: Now I'm kicking myself that I modelled two of my TWC models with bolt pistols instead of chainswords. Oh well, at least I didn't pain them yet so I can still fix them. While we're on the subject of weapons, what weapons would be really good on a Thunderwolf Lord? In 7th, I was thinking Wolf Claw/Powerfist, but now, perhaps a Thunder Hammer and Shield?
Same.
Mine got Storm Shields and Bolt Pistols, wish I'd given them Chainswords.
ZergSmasher wrote: Now I'm kicking myself that I modelled two of my TWC models with bolt pistols instead of chainswords. Oh well, at least I didn't pain them yet so I can still fix them. While we're on the subject of weapons, what weapons would be really good on a Thunderwolf Lord? In 7th, I was thinking Wolf Claw/Powerfist, but now, perhaps a Thunder Hammer and Shield?
Same.
Mine got Storm Shields and Bolt Pistols, wish I'd given them Chainswords.
Sounds like you need to perform a Below the Elbow Amputation on your Marines.
Magnetize everything, guys! Then you can change TWC loadouts as much as you want.
I think the best TWC basic loadout / combo is a Wolf Priest with a bike or jump pack, 3-6 TWC with Wolf Claws, and some (at least half, i'd say) Storm Shields.
The Wolf Claws give them S5 (important for wounding things on 3s) and lets them re-roll wounds, so they don't need to have a WGBL around to buff them. Since the Priest lets them reroll hits, this makes them more deadly than any other loadout I know of, except having 2 Wolf Claws, but i don't know if 4 more points is worth the 1 additional attack.
One interesting thing i noticed that i will probably try out, is that the normal Space Marine Psychis Powers can effect any Adeptus Astartes unit, meaning that it's not hard to throw in a SM lib and get access to a somewhat reliable re-rollable charge with their first power. It's probably not something you need if you have Wulfen in the list, though even then you could use the power and Curse of the Wulfen (Kill) on one of the units.
Drop podding a unit of Wulfen could be fun if you also have Terminators or Skyclaws arriving with them, as that is potentially a lot of re-rolling charges.
4 points is definately worth the points for the attack. Considering how much each model costs a 25% damage output increase for 4 points is a no brained.
Personally I am digging the iron priest on T wolf still. For the 115 or so he costs it's not bad for what he does. The repair is just a bonus.
Leth wrote: 4 points is definately worth the points for the attack. Considering how much each model costs a 25% damage output increase for 4 points is a no brained.
Personally I am digging the iron priest on T wolf still. For the 115 or so he costs it's not bad for what he does. The repair is just a bonus.
Well, you also have to consider that if you take 2, you can't take a shield. Also in my experience points are tight in this edition, and there is such a thing as a unit being "good enough," which i feel 1 wolf claw is most of the time.
That being said, I could see taking 6 TWC, three with WC/SS, and 3 with double WC, so it seems like it would be worth trying out.
I think the iron priests are decent cheap beat-stick units, but they dont really add that much as far as synergy like a wolf priest does. If you like them, i'd also think about taking them on a bike since they are faster, cheaper, and the TWC are no longer S5.
I am still out of the loop with them as RL got in the way and I never got to get any or play with them, so this is a real first impression.
Well they are a dedicated Melee unit with some standard 3+ to hit and S5, AP-1 Attacks. This almost puts them up there with Thunderwolves (without rider)
I like the Frost Claws with their 4 (5) 3+ to hit and S6, AP-2 Attacks.
Storm-Frag Assault Launcher: ...ok, this can give you a lot of Attacks before you get into Melee, better than Bolt Pistols till the Melee starts, so we are looking firing them once or twice a game.
The Great Frost Axe: I wish I could get these in the hands of other units like Thunderwolf Cavalry, still with 3 (4 on a Charge) S8, AP-3 and inflicting 1d3 wounds...Wow who needs Power Fist and/ Thunder Hammers and you still hit on a 3+. I would be willing to forgo the 3++ save for theses over a Thunder Hammer. These will do horrible things to MC/Vehicles.
Storm Shield/Thunder Hammer: S10 Attacks are nothing to laugh at, but I do not know if it is worth going to 4+ to hit with. The 3++ save is what would get me to take one out of every three just to tank wounds.
Bounding Leap: Re-Roll on the Charge is always good. This will get those Great Frost Axes into Melee quicker and more reliably.
Death Frenzy: Cool Ability, it almost wants me to loose big in a Melee now and again just to put out extra Attacks. Mortal Wounds can benefit you on a 5+.
Curse of the Wolfen (Hunt): This can help so many units, especially Blood Claws of all flavors.
Curse of the Wolfen (Kill): Wow, Blood Claws and Thunderwolves getting more Attacks.
Bodyguards: They would make good Bodyguards for most Characters and some Units. Some will benefit more than others.
Murderfang: Though he will not benefit from Curse of the Wolfen, they can mostly keep up with him by Advancing. Their 2 Wounds will absorb a good number of wounds.
Lone Wolves: See Murderfang, but add the fact that the Curse of the Wolfen will affect them. A thought I had was a 10 Model Pack of Wulfen with Murderfang and a Pair of Lone Wolves armed with Storm Shields and Frost Weapons...now I need a pack of Wulfen…
Wolf Priest (On a bike): Wulfen with Re-Rolls and the ability to Regenerate.
Most of the other Characters will not be bad choices.
My thoughts on uses besides a Screening Force: >Drop Pod, Rhino, Razorback: As much as it would be cool, if you look on Space Wolf Army List Page it is not an Option...to bad. It looks like they will be walking for the most part.
>Land Raider (Any Flavor), Stormwolf: With them taking up 2 Spaces you will only get a limited number.
>Stormwolf: Well it would be nice, but a base unit will not fit, you need to be down to two models to use it.
How I would load them out: 10 Models, Wulfen Pack Leader with Frost Claws, 3x Models with no Upgrades, 3 Models with Great Frost Axe, 3 Models with Storm Shield/Thunder Hammer and as many Storm-Frag Assault Launcher that came with the models.
I think the most general use of Wulfen will be 5 man squads with some upgrades, used to buff the rest of a melee oriented force.
If you just want a powerful melee unit, i prefer TWC, but if you want a force multiplier for your army, Wulfen are some of the best units in the game.
For example, 30 or so blood claws and 6 TWC are pretty scary. The wulfen making sure they get their charges off or giving you up to 36 extra attacks is worth hundreds of points worth of additional models. Add in the obvious auto includes of a wolf priest and/or WGBL for rerolls to hit and 1s to wound, and your units become something like twice as effective.
Wolf Scouts UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-10 Models + 0-1 Wolf Guard Pack Leader
WARGEAR: Bolt Gun, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
Wargear Options: >Camo-Cloaks: Pulling off a 2+ save while in cover is great.
>Astrartes Shotgun: S5 at 6” with two shots, Better than a Bolt Pistol if you are going to Assault. Though once you are in the Mêlée it looses its effectiveness.
>Chainsword/Combat Knife: If you are going Assaulty, no better choice for you normal Wolf Scout.
>Heavy Bolter: When mixed with Sniper Rifles it gives you a 36” zone of control. With Bolt Guns a lot of shots.
>Missile Launcher: Again probably best with Sniper Wolves.
>Plasma Pistol: Hard to beat for those high T Models. I would also team it up with the Melta-Gun.
>Plasma Gun: Once more hard to beat. This is great for dealing with high T Targets, but I would only take it if you are going with the Bolt Gun Scouts, maybe with Sniper Wolves.
>Flamer: If you are going Assault Focused it would put this an option. Best for dealing with large infantry count armies.
>Melta-Gun: You want to go Tank/MC hunting this is your choice, should mix well with the shotgun.
>Storm Bolter: Gives you a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) to work with, take one for your WGPL, Pack Leader and a Heavy Bolter you will have a very large Rate of Fire.
>Combi-Weapons: Just have them match the rest of the Pack.
>Power/Frost Weapons: Unless you are going for an Assault Based Anti-Tank/MC list, stick with Frost Weapons or a Wolf Claw. For your WGPL I would consider even a pair of Wolf Claws, he can always just toss grenades.
Your Wolf Scout Pack Leader: Keep him tooled up to match the rest of the Scouts. If you feel you need a Frost Weapon take one, but for the most part he is just an extra Wolf Scout with better Wargear and an extra attack.
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Just take him, there is no need not to. He gives you a better Leadership and can add to your Fire Power/Close Combat ability, if not both.
Behind Enemy Lines: Here is where they shine. Your enemies will fear the edges of the board while they sit on the side board.
Characters: It depends on how you use them. A Wolf Priest, Wolf Lord, WGBL and such will help some, but only one truly will be good with them.
>Herald Deathwolf: Kind of odd, but he also has ‘Behind Enemy Lines’. If you are going to take him and Would Scouts team them up. They may hold him back a little with Expert Hunter having a 12” ‘Bubble’ compared to the Scouts 6”, but the scouts can come with him.
How I would use them: >Bolter Scouts: Keep them with their Bolt Guns, take either a Plasma Gun or Heavy Bolter and have the WGPL take either a Combi-Plasma or Storm Bolter. Camo-Cloaks are an option, but not necessary. Flank them in and take an objective or good piece of terrain and hold it.
>Tank Hunters: Load up on Melta and/or Plasma. With Plasma keep the Bolt Guns, Shotguns for Melta. Add a Power Fist, Thunder Hammer and/or Frost Sword. (The Frost Sword over the Axe just for the AP)
>Sniper Scouts: Camo-Cloaks and Sniper Rifles. Then a Missile Launcher or Heavy Bolter. Find a good Piece of Terrain and Character Hunt from Range. A Buffing Character nearby will also be good.
>Assault Scouts: There are so many options, but one of the best is drop the Bolt Guns for Chainswords. Maybe toss them in a pod or team them up with Herald Deathwolf to get in close to your enemies HQ.
The best way to use them overall is with Focus. You do have the Wolf Scout Pack Leader and Wolf Guard Pack Leader to add some back up gear, but make sure you don’t make them useless. That WGPL with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield may work great with an Assault focused Wolf Scout Pack, but with a Bolter or Sniper Scout Pack he will not do much.
Continuity wrote: Or if you're feeling generous, give them a WG terminator with stormshield to tank everything that comes their way (it's only 38 points)
Continuity wrote: Or if you're feeling generous, give them a WG terminator with stormshield to tank everything that comes their way (it's only 38 points)
46, 71 w/missile and shield
Actually, Long Fangs Terminator Pack Leader cannot take a Storm Shield at all. Had to check and double check but Storm shield is not available. Also Storm Shields cost only 5 points now (except TWC and characters).
Drop Pods Ok, I am dropping out of the Pure Space Wolf Units and delving into Drop Pods.
UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Drop Pod
WARGEAR: Storm Bolter
Drop Pod Assault: This is where they got better, much better, they land Where you Want! So it is over 9” away, still no more falling off the edge of the world.
Immobile: One you place it, there it is for good or bad.
Transport: Carries 10 Models
It is Reasonably Tough and has a good save like most Vehicles. With 8 Wounds it should hang around for a few turns.
Storm Bolter: Rapid Fire-2 is not going to excite anyone, but with the ability to hurt anything the Drop Pod will have to be delft with at some point take shot away from other units.
Deathwind Launcher: Shorter range than the Storm Bolters, it has the chance of making 6 S5 Attacks. Once more it will have to be dealt with at some point drawing fire.
I know they got expensive, but they are a lot better in some ways. Simple no Scatter Drops, the ability to take a good amount of punishment. I know you can’t put your Dreads and Terminators in them, but...you don’t have to pay of Pods for your Wolf Guard Terminators anymore.
The First Rule of Drop Pods: GO BIG OR DON”T BOTHER! The Second Rule of Drop Pods: GO BIG OR DON”T BOTHER! The The Third Rule of Drop Pods: GO BIG OR DON”T BOTHER!
The Fourth Rule of Drop Pods: Wolf Guard Terminators go well with Drop Pods and lessen the Number you need.
How I would use them: >Never in smaller numbers of three: Never have them more than 9” each from each other. Have one what the job is of what is inside. I do this with the Deathwind Launchers, with a 3-18 possible S5 attacks I personally think it is worth it.
>There is also only two Units I would put in a Drop Pod, Power Armored Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters.
>Blood Claws and Wulfen sound like they could be good, but you end up with not enough Special Weapons to do the Job or not enough Models.
>Bolter Wolves: This goes for both Power Armored Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters, Take Bolt Guns, Special Weapons and Combi-Weapons. Most likely you are doing this to capture an early game Objective (Tactical or Not). If you can put three Drop Pods in a Triangular Formation so they can support each other and the Infantry you dropped off, it can act as an instant Fortification of sorts.
>Character/Tank/MC Hunters: Load up with Plasma/Melta and go to town on your Target. Some people think the safest place for their Character is Behind their Meat-Shields, show them how wrong they are. As for Tanks/MCs, well with enough AP-3/AP-4 you should be able to take it down quick. If you set things up you may be able to kill off One Really Big Threat or Three Smaller ones.
>Assault Force: Bolt Pistols, Flamer and Chainswords. Take a Character that gives you a Re-Roll on Charge and go for it.
Pack Layout: >Power Armor Wolf Guard: Take only 9 + a Character (Ragnar with out Fangy and Bitey works good) and hope for the long charge to work out. You will be within 12” so you should be able to soften your target up (or soften up one and the Charge another).
>Grey Hunters: A Pack of 10 without the WGPL should do the job. It depends on if you are planning on Assaulting or not. If you are planning on going with Bolter Wolves, I would go for the second Special Weapon and two Comb-Weapons. If you are planing on Assaulting take the extra Frost Blade, though I would not take two of the same..
Mixing them with Wolf Guard Terminators: >Think about your opponent now having to deal with NINE Targets in their backfield. The Wolf Guard Terminators will probably take the brunt of the Attacks so I would keep them simple, add a Heavy Flamer or an Assault Cannon, maybe a chain fist, that is about it unless you wanted to take a bunch of Combi-Plasma or Combi-Meltas.
A Note:I did not mention Wolf Scouts, but add in a Wolf Scout Pack into the Drop Pod Assault and now he had 10 Targets in his face.
Continuity wrote: Or if you're feeling generous, give them a WG terminator with stormshield to tank everything that comes their way (it's only 38 points)
46, 71 w/missile and shield
So the OP was right, WG termie is 38 w/Shield and Storm Bolter.
Actually, Long Fangs Terminator Pack Leader cannot take a Storm Shield at all. Had to check and double check but Storm shield is not available. Also Storm Shields cost only 5 points now (except TWC and characters).
Anpu42 wrote: Drop Pods -SNIP-
>Grey Hunters: A Pack of 10 without the WGPL should do the job, though you could go with 9 + the WGPL and loose out on the second Special Weapon. It is a tough call. It depends on if you are planning on Assaulting or not. If you ar planning on going with Bolter Wolves, I would go for the second Special Weapon and one Comb-Weapon. If you are planing on Assaulting take the WGPL for a few extra Frost Blade Attacks.
-SNIP-
Actually it says for every five MODELS in the unit (not for every five Grey Hunters in the unit) you can take a special weapon. 9 Grey Hunters and WGPL is 10 models, so you're eligible for 2 special weapons and a combi for Pack Leader. RAW.
Anpu42 wrote: Drop Pods -SNIP-
>Grey Hunters: A Pack of 10 without the WGPL should do the job, though you could go with 9 + the WGPL and loose out on the second Special Weapon. It is a tough call. It depends on if you are planning on Assaulting or not. If you ar planning on going with Bolter Wolves, I would go for the second Special Weapon and one Comb-Weapon. If you are planing on Assaulting take the WGPL for a few extra Frost Blade Attacks.
-SNIP-
Actually it says for every five MODELS in the unit (not for every five Grey Hunters in the unit) you can take a special weapon. 9 Grey Hunters and WGPL is 10 models, so you're eligible for 2 special weapons and a combi for Pack Leader. RAW.
Fortifications.
I like that idea - 450 points or 730 points to own the midfield really sounds good, especially if your opponent sets up terrain to hide at the forward edge of their deployment zone.
Plant your Pods so your opponent is forced to move or deal with 2+ armour saves on the Pods and unload Sniper rounds into any unit with high AP, force your opponent to come out and play while you use high mobility Space Wolves to bag objectives in "your" 2/3 of the battlefield.
Long Fangs UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-6 Models + 0-1 Wolf Guard Pack Leader
WARGEAR: Bolt Gun, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
Fire Discipline: Pick One Target Re-Roll 1’s to hit. Simple and good, though it goes away from what I loved about the 5th Edition Long Fangs where they can Split Fire, now you will tend to Focus on one target, this will change how they are used.
Wargear Options: You may take a Wolf Guard Pack Leader to go along with your Long Fang Pack Leader and even one in Terminator Armor. Will get to that in a Moment.
Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 3, S5, AP-1, Damage 1): This looks to be a good solid weapon that will be good for a lot of Targets as most Infantry will be wounded on a 3+ and Vehicles on a 5+.
Las-Cannon (48” Heavy 1, S, AP-3, Damage 1d6):This is your big Gun, It wounds most enemy on a 2+ and most Vehicles on a 3+ and with its 1d6 Wounds can take down most things quickly, especially if you have more than one.
Missile Launcher: You have two types of Ammunition
>Frag (48” Heavy 1d6, S4, AP-0, Damage 1): Good long Range Weapons good for a lot of targets good to up to T7. Multiple Missiles have good chance of hurting most large units.
>Krak (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1): This is your Tank/MC weapon hurting most on a 4+ or 5+.
Multi-Melta: (24” Heavy 1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, with best of two at 12”): This is your big Monster/Vehicle Killer…mostly. A Las-Cannon has better at range and wounds better, you have a chance of more wounds if you can get close enough.
Plasma Cannon: Like the Missile Launcher, it has two Profiles
>Safe (36” Heavy d3, S7, AP-3, Damage 1): Good and Solid TAC Weapon like the Missile Launcher. It can wound most Infantry on a 2+/3+ and Vehicles/MCs on a 4+/5+.
>Not-So Safe (36” Heavy 1d3, S8, AP-3, Damage 2, Roll a 1 and die): This option take it up to the next level making it a big threat to TEQs. Sure you can blow yourself up, but it is worth the risk at times.
[b]Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor:[/b] You mat take one and put him in Terminator Armor.
>Power Sword: Replace his Power Weapon with something from the Space Wolf Terminator Melee Weapon List. Cool, but other than going to an Axe or a Maul, I don’t think that is necessary.
>Storm Bolter: You may replace the Storm Bolter with either something from the Space Wolf Combi-Weapon or something from the TERMINATOR HEAVY WEAPONS LIST. Wow, just Wow.
>Assault Cannon (24” Heavy 6, S6, AP-1, Damage 1): One of our favorites, though I don’t think it fits well with Long Fangs unless you are going with Melta-Fangs.
>Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Bolter: Again two profiles, and if you are going to take a Terminator Heavy Weapon this should be the one even though it has a shorter range than the Missile Launcher.
>>Frag (36” Heavy 2d3, S4, AP-0, Damage 1): As the Missile Launcher Frags, a Good Anti-Infantry Weapon.
>Krak (36” Heavy 2, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6): Same as the Missile Launcher Krak.
>Heavy Flamer (8” Assault 1d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Auto Hits): I would have a hard time justifying taking one with Long Fangs, maybe as a deterrent against Charges...I would not bother.
Characters: Wolf Lord, and flavor and Bjorn: Re-Rolls of 1, not bad, but you can already do that.
Rune Priest: With Tempest Wrath he can cut down on the number of attacks that hit the Long Fangs, I would add Storm Caller, but you should already be in cover.
Logan Grimnar: No Leadership Rolls and Re-Rolls to hit, never a bad thing, though this will keep him out of what he does best, kicking...well you know.
Wolf Priest: He can get models back in the fight and give you a Leadership of 9.
Wolf Guard Battle Leader/Primaris Lieutenant: This is who you want close as he lets you Re-Roll Wound Rolls of 1. This in my opinion is the best choice, with or without Re-Rolls.
How I would use them: Story Time: I will start with my tale of two Long Fang Packs. I had sold off my Long Fangs long ago when the 5th Edition Space Wolf Codex dropped. So I dived into my pits box and came out with 7 Missile Launchers (one was a Scout Missile Launcher), 2 Las-Cannons and a Scout Heavy Bolter. So I went with it crating two Long Fang Packs, the first was 5 Missile Launchers (That I thought was going to be the better one) and one with 2 Missile Launchers, the Two Las-Cannons and the Heavy Bolter (which I did not think much of at the time). Well over the next 3-5 game the 5xML Pack was….Meh...while the other one just cleaned up on the table, they seemed to put the right shot off to finish off something or blunt a charge. Once between that one Pack and three Land speeders with Heavy Bolters and Typhoons they killed off 5 Razorbacks in two Turns.
Mixed Fangs: Take what is in your bits box and see what you come up with. I don’t think there is a wrong way to build Long Fangs. I would only have one Pack this way, but you might be surprised what they can pull off.
MLRS Fangs: Missile Launchers and Cyclones. Just rain Missiles down on your enemy and let them deal with 5d6+2d3 frag Missiles or 7 Krak Missiles, just do us all a favor, don’t SPAM them, that is what gives a bad reputation. Mix it up some.
Melta-Fangs: 5 Multi-Meltas, an Assault Cannon and either a Combi-Plasma or CombiMelta in a Pod. Add in a WGBL in Terminator Armor for those Re-Roll to wounds.
Bolter-Fangs: Similar to the Melta-Fangs, but with Heavy Bolters. That will be 15 S5 Shots with Re-Rolls.
Plasma-Fangs: Same Principle as the MLRS Fangs. You will be putting out 5d3 {Average around 10-12) S7 or S8 shots with Re-Rolls to help with the Exploding Problem.
Bjorn UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Assault Cannon (24” Heavy 6, S6, AP-1, Damage 1): Hard to beat this weapon as the Default Weapon. It has a short range though, I would upgrade it unless your plan is to get in close.
>Heavy Flamer (8” Heavy 1d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Always hit): Unless you are planning on getting in close it will probably not see much action.
>True Claw (Melee, S12, AP-4, Damage 1d6, Re-Roll Wounds): With his 5 Attacks he will be brutal vs Everything. With him wounding 99% of the things you will encounter on at least a 3+, with a Re-Roll you are looking at more times than not inflicting 5d6 Wounds a Turn in Melee!
Options: Heavy Plasma Cannon: I would call this a good choice for Medium Range TAC work. As much as a love plasma though the other two options are better in my opinion.
>Safe Mode (36” Heavy 1d3, S7, AP-3, Damage 1): Simple and Safe, it is not going to be spectacular.
>Not-So-Safe Mode: 36” Heavy 1d3, S8, AP-3, Damage 2, Rolls of one Take a Mortal Wound): Wile it does better damage and wounds more models on a 2+, it just does not have the...umf that the other two options have.
Hellfrost Cannon: A good alternative to the Assault Cannon if you are not taking on a Horde Army. I would general take it over the Assault Cannon because it is a unique Space Wolf Weapon on TAC Armies where I plan on turning the game into a Brawl.
>Dispersed Beam (24” Heavy 1d3, S6, AP-2, Damage 1, If you don’t kill the model , but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.) A good alternative to the Assault Cannon vs Multi-Wound Models. With its short range though I would only take it if you are planing on getting close.
>Focused Beam: (Heavy 1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, If you don’t kill the model , but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.): This gives you a change at doing 1d6+1 Wounds. A good short range weapon.
Twin Las-Cannon (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-4, Damage 1d6): Probably the best choice for killing big things. With his Re-Roll of 1’s you are going to be inflicting 2d6 Damage to that one Target you think should die.
Special Abilities: Ancient Tactician: +1 Command Point just for showing up, always good and he does not even need to be the Warlord.
Last Company of Russ: Re-Rolls of one on To-Hit Rolls. This makes him as good at a Wolf Lord.
Legendary Tenacity: Ignores Wound on a 5+, this will help a lot.
8 Wound Character: Can take Bodyguards!
How I would use Him: >Brawler: Take the Assault Cannon or Hellfrost Cannon and get in close with just about anything. Hang around Wolf Guard or Thunderwolves to boost them in combat. I included Thunderwolves because he can almost keep up with them.
>Long Range Fire Support: Take the Plasma Cannon or the Twin Las-Cannon and just sit back. Give him some Grey Hunters as a Bodyguard and he should do fine for taking out specific targets.
>Iron Priest: Take one on a Thunderwolf and just keep him close to keep casting Cure Light Wounds with him as a Brawler or Long Range Fire Support.
Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Either in Terminator Armor if you are planing on using the Old Guy as Fire Support or Thunderwolf if you are Brawling for those wonderful Re-Roll of Wounds.
Anpu42 wrote: Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor: You mat take one and put him in Terminator Armor.
>Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Bolter: Again two profiles, and if you are going to take a Terminator Heavy Weapon this should be the one even though it has a shorter range than the Missile Launcher.
>>Frag (36” Heavy 2d3, S4, AP-0, Damage 1): As the Missile Launcher Frags, a Good Anti-Infantry Weapon.
>Krak (36” Heavy 2, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6): Same as the Missile Launcher Krak.
Hooray! My converted model can be used again! I was so disappointed when the previous Space Wolf book got rid of the Terminator Long Fang leader with HW options. Even at shorter range, it's still awesome to have it back. Woo!
Leth wrote: My problem is that the cyclone is strictly worse than two missile launchers but costs the same amount of points.
If it was part of a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack it might not be as good as the Assault Cannon (I will get to them soon), however as part of a Long Fang Back it is a way to ad two more Missile Launchers, lesser Missile Launchers yes, but how often is your Target going to be more than 36" away.
Leth wrote: My problem is that the cyclone is strictly worse than two missile launchers but costs the same amount of points.
If it was part of a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack it might not be as good as the Assault Cannon (I will get to them soon), however as part of a Long Fang Back it is a way to ad two more Missile Launchers, lesser Missile Launchers yes, but how often is your Target going to be more than 36" away.
It also is worse in the frag configuration. But its more about the additional cost of the platform as well. Terminator WG is 37 + 50 for Cyclone. Two extra marines is 30 + 50. So he is more durable but with multi wound weapons its a tough call for those extra 7 points. If he is tanking then its a waste of points as he is likely to die. I just dont know if it is worth concentrating all of those weapons into one squad. If terminators ignored the heavy weapon modifier I could see it. However they dont and so its ehhhh.
However, I am a fan of taking him as a basic terminator with minimal upgrades. In that case the increased survivability against small arms/non multi wound weapons more than compensates for his points.
Leth wrote: My problem is that the cyclone is strictly worse than two missile launchers but costs the same amount of points.
If it was part of a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack it might not be as good as the Assault Cannon (I will get to them soon), however as part of a Long Fang Back it is a way to ad two more Missile Launchers, lesser Missile Launchers yes, but how often is your Target going to be more than 36" away.
It also is worse in the frag configuration. But its more about the additional cost of the platform as well. Terminator WG is 37 + 50 for Cyclone. Two extra marines is 30 + 50. So he is more durable but with multi wound weapons its a tough call for those extra 7 points. If he is tanking then its a waste of points as he is likely to die. I just dont know if it is worth concentrating all of those weapons into one squad. If terminators ignored the heavy weapon modifier I could see it. However they dont and so its ehhhh.
However, I am a fan of taking him as a basic terminator with minimal upgrades. In that case the increased survivability against small arms/non multi wound weapons more than compensates for his points.
True, where I found adding the Cyclone the best was my Mixed Long Fangs. With the current Profile I think the Twin-Frag Missile will mix well with the Heavy Bolter for Infantry.
As for the Krak, one could quickly take down something big with the potential of 6d6 damage.
As for the points...well if you noticed I have been avoiding talking about points, my group is primarily planning on going with Power Levels so I have not thought about it much and avoiding the whole discussion here.
Blood Claws UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-15 +1 Wolf Guard Pack Leader
WARGEAR: Bolt Pistol and Chain Sword
The Wolf Guard Pack Leader can take Terminator Armor with a Power Sword and Chain Sword.
Options: >At 5 Models may take a Special Weapon in place of their Chain Sword, at 15 models may take a second Special Weapon.
>One may take a Plasma Pistol
>The Blood Claw Pack Leader may take a Power Sword
>The Wolf Guard Pack Leader may take any Space Wolf Melee Weapon and a Plasma Pistol or Combi-Weapon
The Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor may take a Space Wolf Terminator Melee Weapon and Replace his Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon or Storm Shield.
Special Abilities: >Berserk Charge: +1 Attack on the Charge
>Headstrong: If not near a Wolf Guard they must try to Charge and yes the Wolf Guard Pack Leader Counts.
How I would use them: >Full Unit Size: I know they cost less than Grey Hunters, but just take them in full 15 model packs and adding in the Wolf Guard Pack Leader. This gives you a lot of Wounds and two Special Weapons and they can still fit in a Stormwolf or Land Raider Crusader. The Plasma Pistol is also very worth it now.
>Anti-Infantry: This is probably the best use of them. Take 2 Flamers, 2 Combi-Flamers and a Power Weapon and or Frost weapon. With their size of you can get all of them into the Fight it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 40+ Attacks on the Charge and this is after the 4d6 attacks from the Flamers.
>Anti-Vehicle/Monster: Take the 2 Melta-Guns, 2 Combi-Meltas, a power Fist and Thunder Hammer. Not my choice for such a role, but it can be done.
Characters of Choice: >Lukas the Trickster to make them WS 2+, I think it is worth the Leadership of 7.
>Any Wolf Lord/Wolf Priest just for the Re-Rolls and improved Leadership. This includes Krom, Herald, Bjorn
>Logan will solve the Leadership issue even with Lukas around. Stormrider could be an interesting choice as now your opponent will ave the choice of Logan Claws or the 16 Screaming Blood Claws.
>Ragnar is Fluffy and gives you Re-Rolls both To-Hit and Charges.
>Wulfen (I know they are not a Character) Will give you the chance to Re-Roll Charges or More Attacks (Close to 60 now)
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are great just for their ability to Re-Roll Wounds.
>Ulrik is once more fluffy and can give Bonus to Wounding Rolls (Especially if mixed with a Wolf Guard Battle Leader).
Note on Terminator Armor: I see no reason not to take it, I also see no reason to take it. I know the idea of the 2++ or Storm Shield to tank wounds sounds good, but it is a quick may to get your Wolf Guard Pack Leader Killed. Now taking one for the Combi-Melta and Chain Fist for Tank/Monster Hunting might be good. Though remember in the long run they will slow down the Blood Claws Pack.
There is a Fluff reason for me to take one from the old 2nd Edition Space Wolf Codex where a Pack of Blood Claws are being lead by an old Wolf Guard who ends up being stepped on by a Titan. The Blood Claws vow Vengeance for their slain Mentor when the Titan moves on and the Wolf Guard climes out of the foot print...it is even funnier if you have seen Wizards
Terminators with Heavy Weapons, Storm Shields and a Wolf Priest, maybe more might be amazing Wound Soakers - personally I'm leaning towards it as a mobile wall.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Terminators with Heavy Weapons, Storm Shields and a Wolf Priest, maybe more might be amazing Wound Soakers - personally I'm leaning towards it as a mobile wall.
I have found that 8-9 or so blood claws in a rhino with a Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Battle Leader work really well.
Rhinos are surprisingly hard to kill when they pop smoke, and 12"+D6 advance really moves them across the board.
I ran two squads of 8, 1 flamer and 1 combi-flamer. Points were tight in my list, so I did not give them any kind of melee power weapons, and they still performed really well, with one squad eating most of a tac squad in one turn, and then helping the other squad kill a 5 man terminator squad the next turn. 3 attacks on the charge really helps just drown things in combat, and fighting first on the charge is so strong this edition.
That said i will definitely try and rejig my list to give them a weapon, probably a wolf claw on the WGPL and maybe a power sword on the BCs too if i can as it will increase the damage output significantly.
jcd386 wrote: I have found that 8-9 or so blood claws in a rhino with a Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Battle Leader work really well.
Rhinos are surprisingly hard to kill when they pop smoke, and 12"+D6 advance really moves them across the board.
I ran two squads of 8, 1 flamer and 1 combi-flamer. Points were tight in my list, so I did not give them any kind of melee power weapons, and they still performed really well, with one squad eating most of a tac squad in one turn, and then helping the other squad kill a 5 man terminator squad the next turn. 3 attacks on the charge really helps just drown things in combat, and fighting first on the charge is so strong this edition.
That said i will definitely try and rejig my list to give them a weapon, probably a wolf claw on the WGPL and maybe a power sword on the BCs too if i can as it will increase the damage output significantly.
I do have to admit I tend to run a lit of foot list so my point of view might be a little skewed.
As for the Rhinos, wow I love the new ones, that might be my next focus.
I don't think id say i think foot lists are not viable... but im not sure they are ideal. Being on foot is pretty slow, and might mean having to take an extra turn of shooting in an edition where marines die faster than ever. Also the Rhino is basically a monstrous creature that can charge things right before the blood claws do to save them from overwatch. They are definitely worth the 72 points imo.
That being said i think foot lists could be doable with wulfen and TWC to help get things started and soak up some fire. They also speed things up a tad with the advance and charge rerolls.
jcd386 wrote: I don't think id say i think foot lists are not viable... but im not sure they are ideal. Being on foot is pretty slow, and might mean having to take an extra turn of shooting in an edition where marines die faster than ever. Also the Rhino is basically a monstrous creature that can charge things right before the blood claws do to save them from overwatch. They are definitely worth the 72 points imo.
That being said i think foot lists could be doable with wulfen and TWC to help get things started and soak up some fire. They also speed things up a tad with the advance and charge rerolls.
It is not as much me not wanting to take them, it is after some RL stuff I don't have any right now.
jcd386 wrote: I don't think id say i think foot lists are not viable... but im not sure they are ideal. Being on foot is pretty slow, and might mean having to take an extra turn of shooting in an edition where marines die faster than ever. Also the Rhino is basically a monstrous creature that can charge things right before the blood claws do to save them from overwatch. They are definitely worth the 72 points imo.
That being said i think foot lists could be doable with wulfen and TWC to help get things started and soak up some fire. They also speed things up a tad with the advance and charge rerolls.
If you want a foot list you have to think a bit outside the proverbial square.
Landed a beating on a Nids list today, quick as they are they aren't quicker than reserves and he was expecting me to meet him with TWC, surprised him to find out Harold was the only model with more than two legs.
Scouts and a pair of Stormwolf flyers had him constantly turning around and eventually hunkered down in the middle.
Wolf Scouts have become something amazing - would pull the same stunt on any army except T'au. If they still have EWO they'd laugh at the tactic.
Rhino UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire-2, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
Options: >May (Should) take a second Storm Bolter.
>May take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). This my not seem like a lot, but think of 3-5 of them hitting the same target.
Special Abilities: >Self Repair: 1 in 6 chance Chance of Cure Minor Wounds each turn.
>Smoke Launchers: Once per Game make your self harder to hit.
>Explodes: Not Good, but if you only have a few wounds left charge that Chaos Lord, you might get lucky.
>Transport: You can take up to 10 Powered Armor or Scout Armored Space Wolves with you.
How I would use them: >Rhino Rush: Take the second Storm Bolter and HK Missile, load them up and head across the battle as quick as you can. A Herd of Charging Rhinos will cause many armies to second guess their reason to be there. The first Turn you might want to have half of them Advance while the others Pop Smoke. If you are feeling gutsy do the same thing next Turn, but revers who Pops Smoke and who advances. This will give you a good Screening force for any units behind them.
>Rhino Assault: When you are close enough to Charge unload your cargo, Then during the Charge Phase, does what come natural to Rhinos, be the first to Charge! This will cause Overwatch Fire that might hurt, but if you pull off the Charge the Pack you had inside will not have to deal with the Overwatch. You also will have 1-3 S6 Attacks to add to the Melee.
>Just a Battle Taxi: While the most efficacy of being a Taxi Service can be called into question, some games you might be able to go from one place to another. Remember you can take 10 Models that do not have to be all from the same unit. So that Gray Hunter Pack with 3 Models and be shoved into the same Rhino as the 5 Blood Claws, 1 Scout and your Wolf Lord.
>Iron Priest: Well he better be on a Bike or Thunderwolf just to keep up. I would not dedicate a single Iron Priest to a Rhino, but one or two to a Rhino Rush might be a good thing. They can also get into to Melee if needed or Just because they can as the Repair Ability is based on Movement, not what else they were doing. Remember though they can only do Repair if they moved 6” or less and they have to be within 1”.
Notes: I know a lot are going ‘Rhinos Are Now Too Expensive Now!’ Don't listen To Them. I think they are worth every point. They are fast and durable, with a pair of Storm Bolters they have a lot of Firepower (8 Shots) and keep your models inside alive long enough to get close. The Rhino Self Parking lots of the past are long gone.
Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-10 Models
WARGEAR: >Terminator Armor (2+/5++ Save)
>Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire-2, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Power Sword (Melee, Hit on 3+, S4, AP-3, Damage 1) [Wolf Guard Pack Leader]
>Power Fist (Mêlée, Hit on a 4+, S8, AP-3, Damage 1d3) [Normal Wolf Guard]
Options: >Any model may replace their Power Sword or Power Fist with a weapon from the Space Wolf Terminator Mêlée Weapons list.
>Any model may replace their Storm Bolter with a weapon from the Space Wolf Terminator Mêlée Weapons list, Space Wolf Combi-Weapon list or Storm Shield.
>Every 5th Model may take a Cyclone Missile Launcher or replace their Storm Bolter with a Assault Cannon or Heavy Flamer.
Special Abilities: >Teleport Strike: Place on the table more than 9” from an enemy at the end of the Movement Phase. (Had to add in the More Than or some people would just loose it)
How I would use them: >Wolf Guard Bodyguards: Tool them up how you see fit and stick them near a Character. Take a few Storm Shields to Tank Shots. I feel that they are best suited for other Terminator Models, but I would not keep it as a rule.
>Make them Individuals: These are supposed to be century old veterans who have found what works for them. I would just make each one be armed different except for the Heavy Weapon. This keeps them Fluffy.
>Close in Fighting: Besides Melee weapons go with Heavy Flamers and maybe Combi-Flamers. This makes a good choice for Horde Armies.
>Medium Range Fighting: These are the best for Deep Strikes, Keep them with Storm Bolter or take Combi-Plasmas and Assault Cannons. It keeps the range the same for anything and on a Deep Strike you will be looking at a lot of Shots, even more with Combi-Plasmas. A 5 Model Pack with Storm Bolters can put out 16 Bolter Shots and 4 Assault Cannon Shots. A 10 Model Pack with Combi-Plasmas can put out 16 Bolter Shots, 16 Plasma-Shots and 12 Assault Cannon Shots. So they will only hit on a 4+, but if Logan is there along with a Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Terminator Armor you will get Re-Rolls with both To Hits and To Wounds.
>Tank/MC Hunting: The same principle as the Medium Range Wolf Guard Terminators, but you are taking Comb-Meltas, Thunder Hammers and Chain Fist. Take Cyclones, armed with Storm Shields to tank wounds.
>Arjac’s Bodyguard: Nothing wrong with a bunch of Wolf Guard Terminators with Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers. Arjac will also give you +1 Attack in Melee. Just use a Land Raider Redeemer or Crusader or a Storm Wolf to get them to what you want to die.
Transports: >Land Raider (God-Hammer): Nothing beats old reliable, though it only hold 5 Wolf Guard. It will get you to the fight and soften up if not take down what you want to remove from the table.
>Land Raider Crusader: You can get up to 8 Wolf Guard Terminators in it, though Arjac, a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, a Wolf Priest and 5 Wolf Guard make a good team up too.
>Land Raider Excelsior: Similar to the ‘God-Hammer’ it gives you bonuses and a 5++ save for your Transport, just have a Rhino Primaris tag along, with some more Wolf Guard in Power Armor and an Iron Priest.
>Land Raider Redeemer: It looks good for Horde Hunting. You can get 6 Models into it like...Logan and a 5 Close in Fighting Wolf Guard Terminators.
>Storm Wolf: A flying Land Raider Crusader...I do not know what more I can say about it.
Anpu42 wrote: Rhino UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire-2, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
Options: >May (Should) take a second Storm Bolter.
>May take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). This my not seem like a lot, but think of 3-5 of them hitting the same target.
Special Abilities: >Self Repair: 1 in 6 chance Chance of Cure Minor Wounds each turn.
>Smoke Launchers: Once per Game make your self harder to hit.
>Explodes: Not Good, but if you only have a few wounds left charge that Chaos Lord, you might get lucky.
>Transport: You can take up to 10 Powered Armor or Scout Armored Space Wolves with you.
How I would use them: >Rhino Rush: Take the second Storm Bolter and HK Missile, load them up and head across the battle as quick as you can. A Herd of Charging Rhinos will cause many armies to second guess their reason to be there. The first Turn you might want to have half of them Advance while the others Pop Smoke. If you are feeling gutsy do the same thing next Turn, but revers who Pops Smoke and who advances. This will give you a good Screening force for any units behind them.
>Rhino Assault: When you are close enough to Charge unload your cargo, Then during the Charge Phase, does what come natural to Rhinos, be the first to Charge! This will cause Overwatch Fire that might hurt, but if you pull off the Charge the Pack you had inside will not have to deal with the Overwatch. You also will have 1-3 S6 Attacks to add to the Melee.
>Just a Battle Taxi: While the most efficacy of being a Taxi Service can be called into question, some games you might be able to go from one place to another. Remember you can take 10 Models that do not have to be all from the same unit. So that Gray Hunter Pack with 3 Models and be shoved into the same Rhino as the 5 Blood Claws, 1 Scout and your Wolf Lord.
>Iron Priest: Well he better be on a Bike or Thunderwolf just to keep up. I would not dedicate a single Iron Priest to a Rhino, but one or two to a Rhino Rush might be a good thing. They can also get into to Melee if needed or Just because they can as the Repair Ability is based on Movement, not what else they were doing. Remember though they can only do Repair if they moved 6” or less and they have to be within 1”.
Notes: I know a lot are going ‘Rhinos Are Now Too Expensive Now!’ Don't listen To Them. I think they are worth every point. They are fast and durable, with a pair of Storm Bolters they have a lot of Firepower (8 Shots) and keep your models inside alive long enough to get close. The Rhino Self Parking lots of the past are long gone.
When did we stop playing Space Wolves?
Personally I wouldn't bother with more than two Rhinos, I'd be nabbing Razorbacks, after all, how often do we have units bigger than five or six models and how often do those units not have personal mobility?
I think the only real need I'll have for the Rhino chassis is grabbing Wolf Scouts.
Anpu42 wrote: Rhino UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire-2, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
Options: >May (Should) take a second Storm Bolter.
>May take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). This my not seem like a lot, but think of 3-5 of them hitting the same target.
Special Abilities: >Self Repair: 1 in 6 chance Chance of Cure Minor Wounds each turn.
>Smoke Launchers: Once per Game make your self harder to hit.
>Explodes: Not Good, but if you only have a few wounds left charge that Chaos Lord, you might get lucky.
>Transport: You can take up to 10 Powered Armor or Scout Armored Space Wolves with you.
How I would use them: >Rhino Rush: Take the second Storm Bolter and HK Missile, load them up and head across the battle as quick as you can. A Herd of Charging Rhinos will cause many armies to second guess their reason to be there. The first Turn you might want to have half of them Advance while the others Pop Smoke. If you are feeling gutsy do the same thing next Turn, but revers who Pops Smoke and who advances. This will give you a good Screening force for any units behind them.
>Rhino Assault: When you are close enough to Charge unload your cargo, Then during the Charge Phase, does what come natural to Rhinos, be the first to Charge! This will cause Overwatch Fire that might hurt, but if you pull off the Charge the Pack you had inside will not have to deal with the Overwatch. You also will have 1-3 S6 Attacks to add to the Melee.
>Just a Battle Taxi: While the most efficacy of being a Taxi Service can be called into question, some games you might be able to go from one place to another. Remember you can take 10 Models that do not have to be all from the same unit. So that Gray Hunter Pack with 3 Models and be shoved into the same Rhino as the 5 Blood Claws, 1 Scout and your Wolf Lord.
>Iron Priest: Well he better be on a Bike or Thunderwolf just to keep up. I would not dedicate a single Iron Priest to a Rhino, but one or two to a Rhino Rush might be a good thing. They can also get into to Melee if needed or Just because they can as the Repair Ability is based on Movement, not what else they were doing. Remember though they can only do Repair if they moved 6” or less and they have to be within 1”.
Notes: I know a lot are going ‘Rhinos Are Now Too Expensive Now!’ Don't listen To Them. I think they are worth every point. They are fast and durable, with a pair of Storm Bolters they have a lot of Firepower (8 Shots) and keep your models inside alive long enough to get close. The Rhino Self Parking lots of the past are long gone.
When did we stop playing Space Wolves?
Personally I wouldn't bother with more than two Rhinos, I'd be nabbing Razorbacks, after all, how often do we have units bigger than five or six models and how often do those units not have personal mobility?
I think the only real need I'll have for the Rhino chassis is grabbing Wolf Scouts.
I have not gotten to Razorbacks yet...give me time
Storm Wolf UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: 2 Las-Cannons, 2 Twin Heavy Bolters, Twin-Hellfrost Cannons
Options: >Replace the Twin-Heavy Bolters for 2x Twin Multi-Melta or Skyhammer Missiles
Weapons: 2 Las-Cannons (48” Heavy-1, S9, AP -3, Damage 1d6): You have two, not a twin so if you wanted to you could fire at two different targets.
2 Twin Heavy Bolters (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1): Good for taking down Infantry, when fired at the same target that is 12 Shots.
Twin Hellfrost Cannon:
>Dispersed Beam (24” Heavy 2d3, S6, AP-2, Damage 1, If you don’t kill the model , but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.)
>Focused Beam: (Heavy 2, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, If you don’t kill the model, but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.): This gives you a chance at doing 1d6+1 Wounds. A good short range weapon.
Skyhammer Missiles (60” Heavy 3, S7, AP-1, Damage 1d3, +1 to Hit Fliers, -1 to hit everything else): If you are expecting Fliers this is the weapon of Choice!)
2x Twin Multi-Melta (24” Heavy 2, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 and choose the best): If after dropping off your passengers and planing on Tank/MC hunting this is a good mix for the Las-Cannons and Hellfrost Cannons
Special Abilities: >Airborne: Can Not Charge and con only be attacked by Fliers in Melee.
>Hard to Hit: Opponents are -1 to Hit you.
>Super-Sonic: Move 20”-50”, but can only make 1 90* turn.
\
>Hover-Jets: Move 0”-20, but losses Airborne, Hard to Hit and Supersonic.
>Power of the Machine Spirits: No Penalty for moving and Firing.
>Transport: You can take up to 16 Models, Terminators, Jump and Wolfen Count as two.
How I would use them: >Flying Crusader: Just put 16 Blood Claws and a Character (Ragnar is always good) in it and find something to turn into Wolf Kibble. You can put yourself next to just about anything on the board on turn one and gave a good chance of not being hit by much. Drop in a Rune Priest in Terminator Armor or in a Drop Pod near by to cast Storm Caller on it and/or Tempest Wrath on something that might be able to hurt it and shrug off a lot of potential damage.
>Wolf Guard Delivery System: Just as it says, fill it with Wolf Guard in either Power Armor or Terminator Armor and use the Flying Crusader Approach. Something like Logan, Arjac, Njal and 5 Wolf Guard terminators should do the job.
>Tank/Monster Hunting: Go with the Multi-Meltas to inflict a possible 8d6 +2 Wounds to anything that you get close to.
>Air Combat: Take the Skyhammers, maybe add a few Jump Pack Models for that nasty surprise when you get close to another Flier.
I would treat the Stormwolf as LandRaider Crusader with heavy Weapons.
If you are not going to use the full transport capacity, the standard Raider or the Gunship is the better option.
The other thing is that I don't see the Melta load out being worth the points.
Of course it is easier to get in 12" with the Stormwolf than with Long Fangs, but than it is still just a transport and spending the points on Laser or Meltas somewhere else is more useful
Bah! Now that more models have more wounds Helfrost has a lot more charm than it did in 7th, so they change it from removal to an extra wound.
At least the Wolf and Fang are fairly cheap for flyers.
Wolf priest got a huge nerf, whit the new rules. Now they're useless around 1W models and they have synergy only with wulfen, thunderwolves and terminators.
But footslogging priests are slow and can actually buff only terminators, maybe wulfen.
Ulrik + blood claws was one of my fav combos in 7th edition, I'm quite disappointed about that.
Wolf Priest UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: Crozius Arcanum, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
Options: You can take him in the Base Power Armor, You can take him in Terminator Armor, You can take him with a Jump Pack, You can take him on a Bike, You can...wait you can not take him on a Thunderwolf...I don’t know why, it wold look cool...Screw That I am going make one on a Thunderwolf and just say he is going to be a count as on a bike.
Weapons: >Crozius Arcanum (Mêlée, S5, AP-1, Damage 2)
> Bolt Pistol (12” Pistol, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Storm Bolter {Terminator Armor} (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Twin Bolt Gun {On a Bike} (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
Wolf Amulet: 4++ Save
Options: >Can replace his Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol (My Default choice) or Combi-Weapon.
>Can take a Jump Pack
>Can Replace his Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon (Terminator Armor)
Special Abilities: >Oath of War: Other Space Wolves can Re-Roll failed to hit rolls during the Fight Phase.
>Spiritual Leader: 6” Leadership 9 Bubble
>Healing Balms: Return 1d3 Wounds to 1 Model at the end of Movement.
How I would use them: >Blood Claws Leader (All Flavors): He will give them a boost in melee and if you have the WGPL in Terminator Armor still up you can heal him if needed. Tack on a Wolf Guard Battle Leader and the whole unit gets Re-Rolls to Hit and To Wound.
>Wolf Guard Leader (All Flavors): Similar to the Blood Claws, just make sure you take the same options as the Wolf Guard Pack, though Terminator Armor is not necessary unless you are Deep Striking him with a group of Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor.
>Wolf Priest in Terminator Armor: This gives him an extra Wound and a 2+/3++ Save so it is not a bad option most of the time, though it will slow him down a little. Unless you are Deep Striking him I would consider taking either a Combi-Flamer or Combi-Melta. If you are Deep Striking go for the Storm Bolter or Combi-Plasma.
Wolf Priest on a Bike: This is a good option 90% of the time just for he extra wound and 3+/4++ save and 14” move letting you bounce from one unit to another quite easily. You could even Advance to get that extra 6” inches to cast Cure Light Wounds on your Wolf Lord. Weirdly enough I would tend to upgrade to a Storm Bolter for a ridicules number of Bolter Shots as you are going to spend most of the battle within 12” of enemy units.
Note on the Healing Balms:[/b] There are two big restrictions on it, one you have to be within 3” and it happens at the End of the Movement Phase. This means you have to plan where he is going to be.
Note on the Crozius Arcanum: It has a S5, so it will be wounding most non-Tank/MC models on a 3+ and most vehicles on a 5+. The -1 Save is...ok, but the Damage of 2 makes it great for multi-wound models.
Wolf Priests lost a lot of punch in the attacking phase but give them the right mobility and they make up for it if they buzz from biggie to biggie, can't wait until Bran Redmaw makes a return.
I am going off the ‘Reservation’ so to speak and talking about the first Primaris Unit.
Inceptor Squad UNIT COMPOSITION: 3 Models
WARGEAR: Two Assault-Bolters (18” Assault 3, S5, AP-1, Damage 1)
Options: None
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Crushing Charge: 1 in 6 chance on a charge of inflicting a Mortal Wound.
>Meteoric Descent: Deep Strike
Overview/How I would use them: They are Mobile (10” Move), reasonably tough (3+ Save, T5 and 2 Wounds) and have a good amount of Firepower (Full Squad can make 18 Heavy Bolter Shots).
They look to be set up to Deep Strike in and let loose with a barrage of Heavy Bolter shots at a target (Remember that on the Deep Strike they will still be hitting on a 3+) and then Assault a unit with a 50/50 of inflicting a Mortal Wound.
This is not how I would use them, I think of them as more of a Mid-Ranged Shooting Unit.
Deep Strike in, yes at about 13”-16” Inches away (out of Rapid Fire Range for most Units) and stay there if possible. Use them as a harassing force. When you find yourself a unit that looks like you can take down quickly, Advance and then Charge.
Stick a Wolf Priest and/or Wolf Guard Battle Leader with a Jump Pack near them for the Re-Rolls.
With their range and quick movement they may also make a good Counter Charge/Backfield unit.
Are Wolf Guard Terminators the shootiest TDA units for any Space Marine army? I really like Terminators and would like to make them a part of my (soon to be) Marine army, and it looks to me that TDA Wolf Guards taking all combi-weapons (maybe one with Assault Cannon) and dropping in with Logan in TDA could potentially drop nearly any unit in the game in a brutal alpha strike, then also be really powerful melee combatants with their Power Fists.
Are there any other TDA units in the game that can provide that level of surprise firepower and not die immediately afterwards? Or even Jump Pack units (not really a fan of Drop Pods, interested in units that can appear on their own)?
Requizen wrote: Are Wolf Guard Terminators the shootiest TDA units for any Space Marine army? I really like Terminators and would like to make them a part of my (soon to be) Marine army, and it looks to me that TDA Wolf Guards taking all combi-weapons (maybe one with Assault Cannon) and dropping in with Logan in TDA could potentially drop nearly any unit in the game in a brutal alpha strike, then also be really powerful melee combatants with their Power Fists.
Are there any other TDA units in the game that can provide that level of surprise firepower and not die immediately afterwards? Or even Jump Pack units (not really a fan of Drop Pods, interested in units that can appear on their own)?
Not that have seen, but the Inceptor Squad could do that.
Grey Knight maybe, but the Pergatation and Purifier Squads can not Deep Strike. Paladins with maxed out Psilencers possibly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And tomorrow will be Razorbacks.
Death watch termies can take 3 heavy weapons and a mix of close combat weapons. 3 assault cannons and all power swords for 247 could be pretty okay. 3 cyclones seems really expensive but is a lot of fire power.
Gererally though i think i like Wolf Guard termies better since they can take combis and wolf claws.
Anpu42 wrote: I am going off the ‘Reservation’ so to speak and talking about the first Primaris Unit.
Inceptor Squad UNIT COMPOSITION: 3 Models
WARGEAR: Two Assault-Bolters (18” Assault 3, S5, AP-1, Damage 1)
Options: None
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Crushing Charge: 1 in 6 chance on a charge of inflicting a Mortal Wound.
>Meteoric Descent: Deep Strike
Overview/How I would use them: They are Mobile (10” Move), reasonably tough (3+ Save, T5 and 2 Wounds) and have a good amount of Firepower (Full Squad can make 18 Heavy Bolter Shots).
They look to be set up to Deep Strike in and let loose with a barrage of Heavy Bolter shots at a target (Remember that on the Deep Strike they will still be hitting on a 3+) and then Assault a unit with a 50/50 of inflicting a Mortal Wound.
This is not how I would use them, I think of them as more of a Mid-Ranged Shooting Unit.
Deep Strike in, yes at about 13”-16” Inches away (out of Rapid Fire Range for most Units) and stay there if possible. Use them as a harassing force. When you find yourself a unit that looks like you can take down quickly, Advance and then Charge.
Stick a Wolf Priest and/or Wolf Guard Battle Leader with a Jump Pack near them for the Re-Rolls.
With their range and quick movement they may also make a good Counter Charge/Backfield unit.
I'd put them at the seventeen inch range unless they have to be put closer due to enemy models - they honestly suck as an assault unit so the best place for them to be is at the higher end of the charge range.
The best place for the Inceptors is behind enemy lines against an assault army, being sacrificed in an attempt to remove long ranged units to force the enemy to move forward or evaporate MCs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote: Are Wolf Guard Terminators the shootiest TDA units for any Space Marine army? I really like Terminators and would like to make them a part of my (soon to be) Marine army, and it looks to me that TDA Wolf Guards taking all combi-weapons (maybe one with Assault Cannon) and dropping in with Logan in TDA could potentially drop nearly any unit in the game in a brutal alpha strike, then also be really powerful melee combatants with their Power Fists.
Are there any other TDA units in the game that can provide that level of surprise firepower and not die immediately afterwards? Or even Jump Pack units (not really a fan of Drop Pods, interested in units that can appear on their own)?
Even if they are they can kind of afford to be - they share their force org slot with a lot of the Space Wolves "essential" units.
Razorback UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: Twin Heavy Bolters (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1)
Options: Replace the Twin Heavy Bolters with:
>Twin Las-Cannon: (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6): Great for Tank/MC Hunting.
>Twin Assault-Cannon: (24”, Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1): Sort of turns the Razorback into a tracked version of its Namesake. Great for Anti-Horde Work.
>Las-Cannon and a Twin Plasma Gun: Gives it a good mix for both Anti-Tank and Anti-Heavy Infantry.
>Twin Heavy Flamers (8”, Assault 2d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Always Hits): Assault 2d6, this means you can Advance and fire making the threat range 20+1d6”.
>Take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot): An ok Anti-Tank/MC weapon, great in groups.
>Take a Storm Bolter: Good for Anti-Infantry Work.
Special Abilities: >Smoke Launchers: If you are not shooting a good way to avoid being hit.
>Transport: Take 6 Normal Infantry Models
How I would use them: >Razorback SPAM: 3+ Razorbacks and imitate a Rhino while filled with MSU Grey Hunters. A basic pack of 5 + a Character for buffing or just the Wolf Guard Pack Leader. This can give you 2 Special Weapons (Ok, a Special Weapon and a Combi-Weapon) and a few Power Weapons. It is also not bad in a fight, 3 extra S6 Attacks are always good.
>Anti-Horde or M113 ACCV: Leave it with the Twin Heavy-Bolters or take the Twin Assault-Cannons or Twin Heavy Flamers. Take the Storm Bolter too.
>Anti-Tank/MC or The M18 Hellcat: Take the HK Missile and then either the Twin Las-Cannon or Las-Cannon/Twin-Plasma Gun combo. Infantry is not necessary to bring along. Find some sort of cover and sit behind it for the cover save or find a friendly Rune Priest with Storm Caller and/or Tempest Wrath. Concentrate Fire on big things, especially with the HK Missiles. A Razorback with the Twin Las-Cannon and a HK Missile can inflict 3d6 Damage each. The storm Bolter is not necessary, but I would bring it just in case.
>Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf or a Bike: This would be a good choice to hang around them.
I personally would only mix and mach based on what unit they are to be attached too. The M113 ACCV version with the Grey Hunter, Wolf Guard and Blood Claws, the M18 Hellcat with Long Fangs.
I think the heavy bolter is pretty terrible. I'd almost always take the twin assault cannon option instead.
Alternatively i also think the las/plas got a big boost from the change to twin linked. 1 las shot and 4 plasma at 12" is pretty scary. The plasma also don't get their BS reduced by moving which i think is big.
Double las seems good too, but is more expensive, and i really don't like using las without some kind of re-rolls around as i always seem to miss with them.
It might be a bit on the slow side but a Shield Dread, an Iron Priest and two Razorbacks would make a neat mobile turret objective sitter - plant them in cover and use the Dread's Smoke Launchers to keep them safer from being targeted.
One with Assault Canons, one with the twin Las.
Njal Stormcaller UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Runic Armor: 2+/5++ Save
>Bolt Pistol (12” Pistol, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Nightwing the Bird Wonder: (12” Assault 1d6, S3, AP-, Damage 1)
>Frag Grenades (6” Grenade 1d6, S3, AP-, Damage 1)
>Krak Grenades (6” Grenade 1, S6, AP-2, Damage 1d3)
>Staff of the Storm Caller (Mêlée 3, S6, AP-1, Damage 1d3)
Options: >Replace the Runic Armor for Runic Terminator Armor: 2+/4++ Save (You loose the Grenades, but not the Bolt Pistol…)
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Lord of Tempest: +1 to Psychic Test
>Psychic Hood: +1 to Deny the Witch.
>Staff Stormcaller: Re-Roll ONE Failed Deny the Witch roll.
Psychic Powers: Lord of Tempest already included >Smite: Manifest on a 4+ inflict against the closest unit within 18” for 1d3 Mortal Wounds and on a 9+ inflict 1d6 Mortal Wounds.
>Stormcaller; On a 5+ give one unit within 6” a Cover Save.
>Tempest Wrath: On a 5+ make on Enemy Unit within 18” -1 To Hit.
>Jaws of the World Wolf: On a 6+ Have a leadership Roll off and if the enemy looses they take Mortal Wound of the Difference.
>Deny the Witch Twice a Turn
Overview/How I would use him: >Overview: He is a strong Psychic with the ability to Deny enemy Psychic relatively well I am sure there is better, but not many.
>Runic Armor Njal: Stick him with someone who could benefit from the cover save and he can keep up with like Power Armored Wolf Guard or the Advancing 15 model Blood Claws Pack.
>Runic Terminator Armor: Put him with Wolf Guard Terminators, really a good choice for Deep Striking Wolf Guard. Once everyone is there Start with Storm Caller on the Terminators for that 1+ Save and then pick a the most dangerous unit and make them -1 to hit. Then Smite the what will be the focus of the Terminators Wrath, if you need to spend the Command Re-Roll to inflict more wounds.
>Njal in Mêlée vs Hordes: Oddly enough I think he will do good in Mêlée against hordes, make sure you have a Wolf Guard Battle Leader nearby and someone who will give him re-rolls before the Assault. Before the Assault toss a Frag Grenade and with Nighwing you can inflict 2d6 wounds before the Charge, mixed with JotWW on a good roll that could be 3d6 wounds. One he is locked in he still gets his Bolt Pistol shot before anything else.
>Njal in Mêlée vs Multi-Wound Models: Again he might need a little help from a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, but his JotWW and S6 1d3 Wounds per attack could quickly run through some wounds. You should looking at inflicting 4d3 Wounds of which 1d3 are Mortal, possibly 3d3+1d6
>Get Lukas near something before using JotWW, but not near you for a possible extra Mortal Wound.
Dreadnaughts UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Just being tough (T7, 3+ Save)
>Assault Cannon (24” Heavy 6, S6, AP-1, Damage 1): Good Mid Range Firepower.
>Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1): See Above
>Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapon (Mêlée 4, S12, AP-3, Damage 3): Wounds most things on a 2+, Most Vehicles on a 3+.
Options: Replace Assault Cannon with one of the Following >Heavy Plasma Cannon
>>Safe Mode: 36”, Heavy 1d3, S7, AP-3, Damage 1
>>Not so Safe Mode: 36” Heavy 1d3, S8, AP-3, Damage 2, Roll a one Kill Yourself) If you are willing to take that Mortal Wound Go for it.
>Hellfrost Cannon: A good alternative to the Assault Cannon if you are not taking on a Horde Army. I would general take it over the Assault Cannon because it is a unique Space Wolf Weapon on TAC Armies where I plan on turning the game into a Brawl.
>>Dispersed Beam (24” Heavy 1d3, S6, AP-2, Damage 1, If you don’t kill the model , but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.) A good alternative to the Assault Cannon vs Multi-Wound Models. With its short range though I would only take it if you are planing on getting close.
>>Focused Beam: (Heavy 1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, If you don’t kill the model, but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.): This gives you a change at doing 1d6+1 Wounds. A good short range weapon.
>Twin Autocannon (48” Heavy 4, S7, AP-1, Damage 2): Unless you feel you need to Wound Toughness 4 on a 2+ while playing Fire Support this is the my choice of the Long Range Weapons.
>Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1): A cheaper Alternative for the Assault Cannon. Good Range, Rate of fire and Strength. If you feel you need to Wound T3 on a 2+ go for the Assault Cannon, but otherwise I think it is a good choice.
>Twin Heavy Flamer (8” Assault 2d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Always Hits) A Good up close weapon, especially mixed with a Heavy Flamer and great Wolf Claw.
>Twin Las-Cannon (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6): Great Long Range Anti-Vehicle/MC Weapon.
Replace the Storm Bolter and DCCW with a Missile Launcher or Twin Autocannon.
>Missile Launcher:
>>Frag (Heavy 1d6, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>>Krak (Heavy 1 S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6)
>Twin Autocannon (48” Heavy 4, S7, AP-1, Damage 2): Unless you feel you need to Wound Toughness 4 on a 2+ while playing Fire Support this is the my choice of the Long Range Weapons.
Replace the DCCW with a Great Wolf Claw.
>Great Wolf Claw (Mêlée 4, S10, AP-2, Damage 1d6, Re-Roll Failed to Wound Rolls.
Replace the Storm Bolter with a Heavy Flamer (8” Assault 1d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1) A nice alternative for a close up fighter nd mixes well with the Twin-Heavy Flamers.
Replace Everything with a Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield. (Venerable Dreadnoughts Only)
>Fenrisian Great Axe (Mêlée 4, S10, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Blizzard Shield: 3++ Save
Special Abilities: >Smoke Launcher: Reduce the chance of being hit at the Expense of Shooting.
>Explodes: Well...
Overview/How I would use Them: I know there are a lot of options, though I will focus on the Traditional and Fluffy.
>Rifleman Dread (Traditional): It is call this because of an old BattleTech Mech (As the Joker says: Worth the Google). Either take two sets of Twin Autocannons or Twin-Autocannons and Twin Las-Cannons. This gives you a lot of long range firepower. Set in the backfield with your Long Fangs and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader and someone who gives you Re-Rolls to hit.
>Triple Flamer(Traditional): Take the Twin Heavy-Flamer and a Heavy Flamer for 3d6 Attacks. I know we lost our ability to Pod them, but I don’t think that that is the end of the world for them. Just follow the Grey Hunter/Blood Claw Packs in. You opponent will have to focus on one of the you. They are also tough so don’t be afraid of being in front. Also makes a good Counter Charge Unit.
>Axe and Board (Fluffy): Lets be serious, you built it just because it looks cool, but it is effective too. These make great Bodyguards for any character including Murderfang and Bjorn. Don’t be afraid of Popping Smoke and as the RAW looks it will make you immune to Overwatch, but that is a debate for another thread.
>Great Wolf Claw (Fluffy): Considering they are cheaper (by 15 Points) than a Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapon why would you take anything else. Just mix it with anything else but the Axe and Board or Rifleman Dreadnaughts and you are good to go, especially with the Re-Rolls. For Real Fluffiness mix it with the Hellfrost Cannon.
Venerable Dreadnaught:Mostly what the Venerable Dreadnaught gives you is a WS 2+, BS 2+, FNP 6+. So everything should be the same as the Regular Dreadnaught, but just covered in more stuff from your Space Wolves Bits Box.
Wolf Guard Bikers UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-10 Models
WARGEAR: >Space Marine Bike: 14” Move and Twin Bolt Guns (24” Rapid Fire-2, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Bolt Pistol (12” Pistol 1, S4, AP1, Damage 1)
>Chain Sword (Mêlée 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1, may make an extra Attack during the Fight Phase)
>Frag and Krak Grenades.
Options: >Any Model may Take a Bolt Gun, Storm Bolter or Combi-Weapon.
>Any Model may trade their Chainsword for a weapon of the Space Wolf Melee Weapon List.
>Any Model may trade in their Bolt Pistol for a Storm Shield, Plasma Pistol or a weapon of the Space Wolf Melee Weapon List.
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Turbo-Boost: Always Advance Maximum Distance (20”).
Overview/How I would use Them: >Sons of Loki: Make the true Space Wolf Bikers, just keep them basic with the Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. Use the Hairiest heads you can you can find and model them with tire-irons and chains. Maybe toss in a Power Weapon here and there. You could also go for the Mad Max look too by tossing in some Razorbacks and/or Predators.
>Tank/Monster Hunters: Take Plasma Pistols, Combi-Meltas and Combi-Plasmas. Load up on High Strength/High AP Mêlée weapons.
>Dakka Bikers: Replace that Bolt Pistol with a Storm Bolter for enough Bolter Shots to impress Orks. With the Turbo Bust it will not be hard to get within 12” and lets loos with 40 Bolter Shots for a 10 Model Pack.
>Heck Puppies: Have everyone take a Combi-Flamer and a Mêlée Weapon of Choice and Turbo-Boost 20” Across the Board (That should bit you within 8” of your chosen BBQ Choice) and let go with the Flamers for 10d6 possible Hits for a 10 model Pack.
>The Usual: A Wolf Guard Battle Leader and something like a Wolf Priest or Wolf Lord with them would be great for the re-Rolls.
>Spearhead Detachment: A great way for an All Biker Army...or mix with Wolf Guard Terminators, Wolf Guard Jump Packs or Wolf Guard in Pods is a good way to just have everything in their Face Quickly.
Shield Wall Bikers - Toughness five, Strength four, two attacks, two wounds, high mobility - just short the Strength of Thunderwolves last edition.
34 points per model, five points for a shield, four points for a power weapon or seven points for a frost sword or just leave them with chainswords for the extra attacks. Use them to cover the TWCs advance, they're faster than the TWC with a fourteen inch movement and with Wulfen backing can re-roll failed charges, on the right field setups they have a damn good chance of tangling, locking down or even wrecking enemy front lines on their first turn.
Meaning the TWC can be lightly loaded for defense and heavily equipped to deal damage - one model with a Shield and pistol, two models with paired Wolf Claws, not many things are going to double out Strength five to be wounded on sixes.
Anpu, your math seems off. You say a ten model pack can get 40 Bolter Shots, but it should actually be 80 shots - 4 per model from the Storm Bolter, plus another 4 per model from the Twin Boltgun on their bike.
Waaaghpower wrote: Anpu, your math seems off. You say a ten model pack can get 40 Bolter Shots, but it should actually be 80 shots - 4 per model from the Storm Bolter, plus another 4 per model from the Twin Boltgun on their bike.
And this is the antidote to unbreakable conscript blobs. You simply turn them into red mist.
Even a 5-man pack gets 40 shots and only costs 180 points.
Wolf Guard Battle Leader UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Powered Armored: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades.
>Biker: Space Marine Bike, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades.
>Thunderwolf: Thunderwolf Mount, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades.
>Terminator: Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Power Sword.
Options: >Replace Chainsword for one item Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon List.
>Replace Bolt Pistol for one item Bolt Gun, Plasma Pistol, Storm Shield, Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon List or Combi-Weapon List.
>May take a Jump Pack
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Huskarl of the Jarl: 6” Re-Roll 1s on Damage Bubble
Overview/How I would use Them: This is one of the few Models I would Spam. I am not going to run through the normal list of how to load one out as you should all have the idea of what they can take and why.
However he does make a great force multiplier no mater how you look at him with any Unit just make sure he is set up to mix with them, Terminators with Terminators, Jump Packs with Jump Packs, you get idea. The only exception might be the Biker as he would mix well with the Thunderwolves, though he would be loosing out on three attacks.
I know I have a bunch of models that I used to use as Wolf Guard to pass out when we could do that and will still do when it comes to my Space Wolves still even though I will still be adding a Wolf Guard Pack Leader to each Grey Hunter and Blood Claw Units. I figure one Wolf Guard Battle Leader and probably a Wolf Priest for every two Packs just to add bonuses and off set the Over Charged Plasma. I will also probably make sure there is one near my Long Fangs and Rifleman Dreads.
Final Note: I sort of feel that the Wolf Guard Battle Leader will Synergize better than a Wolf Lord.
I agree, WGBL works well in situations where you already have a reroll to hit for some reason. He is also a good choice to carry a SS since he does not have a built-in invulnerable save. Buying a Wolf Lord a SS always feels like a waste of points since he comes with a stock 4++.
Good luck sir.
Love what I can see of the paint job - got better photos?
As for the WGBL I give them Jump Packs and paired Wolf Claws, then drop them to shore up Grey Hunters or Wolf Scouts who are under performing.
Sounds like an odd combination but usually they benefit from re-rolling ones to hit or the arrival of a close combat specialist.
jy2 wrote: Just played my first game of 8th. Used space wovles. My list:
<Snip>
I thought only venerable dreads could take axe shield? If not normal dreads are likely better for the greater numbers
Pretty clear in the index Axe/Shield is a venerable only option.
Oops! I missed that! Thanks for pointing it out.
I most likely would have dropped the Wolf Scouts and Blood Claws or a rifleman dread in order to fit in the Venerables.
Anpu42 wrote: Dreadnaughts UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
Spoiler:
WARGEAR: >Just being tough (T7, 3+ Save)
>Assault Cannon (24” Heavy 6, S6, AP-1, Damage 1): Good Mid Range Firepower.
>Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1): See Above
>Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapon (Mêlée 4, S12, AP-3, Damage 3): Wounds most things on a 2+, Most Vehicles on a 3+.
Options: Replace Assault Cannon with one of the Following >Heavy Plasma Cannon
>>Safe Mode: 36”, Heavy 1d3, S7, AP-3, Damage 1
>>Not so Safe Mode: 36” Heavy 1d3, S8, AP-3, Damage 2, Roll a one Kill Yourself) If you are willing to take that Mortal Wound Go for it.
>Hellfrost Cannon: A good alternative to the Assault Cannon if you are not taking on a Horde Army. I would general take it over the Assault Cannon because it is a unique Space Wolf Weapon on TAC Armies where I plan on turning the game into a Brawl.
>>Dispersed Beam (24” Heavy 1d3, S6, AP-2, Damage 1, If you don’t kill the model , but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.) A good alternative to the Assault Cannon vs Multi-Wound Models. With its short range though I would only take it if you are planing on getting close.
>>Focused Beam: (Heavy 1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, If you don’t kill the model, but still inflicted a wound roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict a Mortal Wound.): This gives you a change at doing 1d6+1 Wounds. A good short range weapon.
>Twin Autocannon (48” Heavy 4, S7, AP-1, Damage 2): Unless you feel you need to Wound Toughness 4 on a 2+ while playing Fire Support this is the my choice of the Long Range Weapons.
>Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1): A cheaper Alternative for the Assault Cannon. Good Range, Rate of fire and Strength. If you feel you need to Wound T3 on a 2+ go for the Assault Cannon, but otherwise I think it is a good choice.
>Twin Heavy Flamer (8” Assault 2d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Always Hits) A Good up close weapon, especially mixed with a Heavy Flamer and great Wolf Claw.
>Twin Las-Cannon (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6): Great Long Range Anti-Vehicle/MC Weapon.
Replace the Storm Bolter and DCCW with a Missile Launcher or Twin Autocannon.
>Missile Launcher:
>>Frag (Heavy 1d6, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>>Krak (Heavy 1 S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6)
>Twin Autocannon (48” Heavy 4, S7, AP-1, Damage 2): Unless you feel you need to Wound Toughness 4 on a 2+ while playing Fire Support this is the my choice of the Long Range Weapons.
Replace the DCCW with a Great Wolf Claw.
>Great Wolf Claw (Mêlée 4, S10, AP-2, Damage 1d6, Re-Roll Failed to Wound Rolls.
Replace the Storm Bolter with a Heavy Flamer (8” Assault 1d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1) A nice alternative for a close up fighter nd mixes well with the Twin-Heavy Flamers.
Replace Everything with a Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield.
>Fenrisian Great Axe (Mêlée 4, S10, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Blizzard Shield: 3++ Save
Special Abilities: >Smoke Launcher: Reduce the chance of being hit at the Expense of Shooting.
>Explodes: Well...
Overview/How I would use Them: I know there are a lot of options, though I will focus on the Traditional and Fluffy.
>Rifleman Dread (Traditional): It is call this because of an old BattleTech Mech (As the Joker says: Worth the Google). Either take two sets of Twin Autocannons or Twin-Autocannons and Twin Las-Cannons. This gives you a lot of long range firepower. Set in the backfield with your Long Fangs and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader and someone who gives you Re-Rolls to hit.
>Triple Flamer(Traditional): Take the Twin Heavy-Flamer and a Heavy Flamer for 3d6 Attacks. I know we lost our ability to Pod them, but I don’t think that that is the end of the world for them. Just follow the Grey Hunter/Blood Claw Packs in. You opponent will have to focus on one of the you. They are also tough so don’t be afraid of being in front. Also makes a good Counter Charge Unit.
>Axe and Board (Fluffy): Lets be serious, you built it just because it looks cool, but it is effective too. These make great Bodyguards for any character including Murderfang and Bjorn. Don’t be afraid of Popping Smoke and as the RAW looks it will make you immune to Overwatch, but that is a debate for another thread.
>Great Wolf Claw (Fluffy): Considering they are cheaper (by 15 Points) than a Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapon why would you take anything else. Just mix it with anything else but the Axe and Board or Rifleman Dreadnaughts and you are good to go, especially with the Re-Rolls. For Real Fluffiness mix it with the Hellfrost Cannon.
Venerable Dreadnaught:Mostly what the Venerable Dreadnaught gives you is a WS 2+, BS 2+, FNP 6+. So everything should be the same as the Regular Dreadnaught, but just covered in more stuff from your Space Wolves Bits Box.
This review needs to be modified also to reflect that fact that only Venerables can take the Axe & Board option.
Swiftclaws UNIT COMPOSITION: 3-10+1-2 Models
WARGEAR: Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades and Bike with Twin Bolter
>Attack Bike: Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Twin Bolter and Heavy Bolter.
Options: >Each Model may replace their Bolt Pistol with a Chainsword
>One model may replace their Bolt Pistol with a Space Wolf Special Weapon.
>May take an Attack Bike
>The Attack Bike may replace their Heavy Bolter with a Multi-Melta
>May include a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
>The Wolf Guard Pack Leader may Replace his Bolt pistol with one item from the Space Wolf Mêlée List or Space Wolf Combi-Weapon List
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>If there is No Wolf Guard nearby they must attempt to charge when within 12” of an enemy.
>Berserk Charge: On a Turn they Charge they get one Additional Attack.
>Turbo-Boost: Advance is 20”
Overview/How I would use Them: Again it depends on how you plan on using them.
>Anti-Infantry: Take the Chainswords and go with either a Flamer or Plasma Gun, the same with the Wolf Guard Battle Leader and stick with the Heavy Bolter for the Attack Bike.
>Anti-Tank/MC: Go for the Plasma or Melta-Gun, though I tend to go with the Plasma Gun for more chances to hit and range wise mixes well with the Multi-Melta you stuff on the Attack Bike. Chainswords are also another good option.
>Again a Wolf Guard Battle Leader and/or a Wolf Priest is always a good idea.
I have 1 Pack that is 10 Models with a Heavy Bolter Attack Bike, Plasma Gun and a Wolf Guard Pack Leader with a Frost Sword. I normally team it up with a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Paired Wolf Claws. My only problem is I used to no mater how I did things ended up in Mêlée with a Dreadnaught and get stuck there for the rest of the game. Now with the Wound anything in a 6+ I think that problem has gone away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
This review needs to be modified also to reflect that fact that only Venerables can take the Axe & Board option.
And thanks for taking the time to do all these reviews.
Your Welcome, I enjoy doing them and it helps me get a better understanding of what each unit can do. I am also open to what to do next, though tight now I am looking at either the Wolf Lord in all of its Flavors or a Land Raider next.
Only customisable Wolf Lords I'm liking are the combi-weapon and chainsword and the paired close combat weapons - I'm partial to paired Wolf Claws and its gotta be on a Thunderwolf mount, the greatest offensive potential you can muster, we lost the Runic Armour and Armour of Russ, the shield was always a waste of time and points so it's not going to be your spear-head.
It's buff can be replecated by the WGBL at a cheaper price or bettered by the unique character Wolf Lords.
Wolf Lord UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Basic Wolf Lord: Power Armor/Belt of Russ (3+/4++, T4, W5), Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades.
>Biker Lord: Power Armor/Belt of Russ (3+/4++, T5, W7), Space Marine Bike, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades.
>Gravis Lord: Gravis Armor/Belt of Russ (3+/4++, T5, W6), Mastercrafted Power Sword (Mêlée 3, Hit on a 2+, S4, AP-3, Damage 2), Bladestorm Gauntlet (Pistol 3, Hits on a 2+, S4, AP-, Damage 1 or Mêlée 5, Hit on a 3+, S8, AP-3, Damage 1d3)
>Terminator Lord: Terminator Armor/Belt of Russ (2+/4++, T4, W6), Storm Bolter, Power Sword.
>Thunder Lord: Power Armor/Belt of Russ (3+/4++, T5, W7), Thunderwolf Mount, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades.
Options: >Weapon Trade Outs: All but the Gravis Lord can trade out their Weapons for other weapons or a Storm Shield.
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Jarl of Fenris: 6” Re-Roll 1s on To Hit Bubble
>Basic Wolf Lord: Can take a Jump Pack
Overview/How I would use Them: Fluff Wise I would only take them if you are going with a Battalion, Brigade, Supreme Command or Vanguard Detachment. On the Power Weapon Front, just go with things with the Words ‘Wolf’, ‘Thunder’ or ‘Frost’ in them.
>Basic Wolf Lord: Just about any Power Weapon combination, though if you are looking at taking a Sword and/or Bolt Pistol combo, just go with the Gravis Lord. For a lot of Attacks go with the Paired Wolf Claws. If you are planning on having him sit back and Lead from a vantage point, go for a Combi-Weapon, but his strength is in Mêlée. A Jump Pack will give him some mobility, but I think a bike is a better choice if you are going to play ‘Fire Brigade’ with him most of the time.
>Biker Lord: It is hard to beat a Wolf Lord on a Bike’s maneuverability. Give him at least a Frost Weapon and I would go with a Combi-Plasma or Storm Bolter for some Dakka.
>Gravis Lord: The Gravis Lord looks to be a good up close choice for a Foot list...but that is where he will stay as he can not get on any of the Transports. He can probably be a good choice to sit with your Long Fangs And Rifleman Dreads and then act as a counter charge unit. I personally like him.
>Terminator Lord: A Deep Striking Wolf Lord should scare a lot of people. I would keep him simple, upgrade to a Frost Axe or Frost Sword, maybe even take a Thunder Hammer or Chain Fist. Paired Wolf Claws are another good option for 5 Attacks.
>Thunder Lord: Now here is what a lot are thinking when they think of a Wolf Lord. Here is one of the few places I think a Storm Shield should go unless you want the 5 Attacks for the Paired Wolf Claws (and don’t forget about the three extra attacks from Bity McBites A lot). Don’t worry about not having a ranged weapon, that is what Grenades are for.
Note on the Storm Shield: I am sort of starting to agree with many of the others out there that is is not a great choice for a Wolf Lord as all you are buying is a +1++ to your save. Now for Fluff reasons there is not much cooler than a Thunder Lord on his Thunderwolf with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield.
As for the WGBL I give them Jump Packs and paired Wolf Claws, then drop them to shore up Grey Hunters or Wolf Scouts who are under performing.
Wolf Claws seem like a poor choice for the WGBL since he can natively reroll 1s to wound anyway. I would prefer a SS and TH or Frost weapon.
Wolf Claws work better on a Wolf Lord IMHO as he can then reroll 1s to hit and any failed wound rolls while still getting his 4++ from the Belt of Russ.
I'd also go with SS/TH on a WGBL and a pair of claws for the lord or even only a TH for the lord, without the shield.
In 7th edition I always gave a shield to the lord because with only 3 wounds that +1 to the invuln was useful, but now he has a lot of wounds and the biker wolfpriest can even restore wounds that were lost in previous turns. No more shield for the lord
As far as i can tell, you can't upgrade a Wolf Lords that use the Captain entry with Space Wolves wargear, though i would love to shown otherwise.
I think a Frost Sword is the way to go for the WGBL for sure. The better AP makes up for the rerolls on the Wolf Claw.
On other units the wolf claws do more damage most of the time, but the swords are more efficient on a wounds to points ratio, and just better if there is a wgbl around.
I've also been giving a 2 point storm bolter to most of my HQs with any scrap points i have left in most of my lists.
As for the WGBL I give them Jump Packs and paired Wolf Claws, then drop them to shore up Grey Hunters or Wolf Scouts who are under performing.
Wolf Claws seem like a poor choice for the WGBL since he can natively reroll 1s to wound anyway. I would prefer a SS and TH or Frost weapon.
Wolf Claws work better on a Wolf Lord IMHO as he can then reroll 1s to hit and any failed wound rolls while still getting his 4++ from the Belt of Russ.
For the extra attack, extra strength and ap-2.
If you're backing up Hunters or Scouts like that something is closing with them and re-rolling any failed to-wound for everybody is going to be the bigger help than re-rolling ones to hit.
My Wolf Lord gets Thunderwolfed near models with BS2 or WS2 and he carries the paired Wolf Claws as well.
UNIT COMPOSITION: 5 Models
WARGEAR: Mark X Power Armor (Save 3+, T4, W2), Plasma Incinerator and Bolt Pistol
Plasma Incinerator: >Safe Mode: (30’ Rapid Fire 1, S7, AP-4, Damage 2)
>Not-So-Safe-Mode: (30” Rapid Fire 1, S8, AP-4, Damage-2, Roll a one and Die)
Special Rules: >ATSKNF
Overview/How I would use them: >Well 1st there are no options to take any more models or change up their Wargear, but I am good with that.
>Transports: Since you have nothing to transport them in...they have to hoof it.
>Point Defense Weapon: I think is what they will be best at, sort of like a Long Fang Pack. Place them someplace with a good field of fire and vaporize anything that gets within line of sight.
>Walking Fire: Move 6” every Movement Phase behind either Grey Hunters or Powered Armor Wolf Guard loaded with Combi-Weapons finish off what they did not.
>Character: Logan, Ragnar, Krom, Bjorn and Wolf Lords are good choices to take care of those pesky 1s when firing in ‘Not-So-Safe-Mode’ allowing you to put off some serious damage, a Wolf Lord with a Bolt Gun or Comb-Weapon would be the best choice. Logan could be good, but you really want him in close combat.
>Primaris Lieutenant, Wolf Priest and/or Wolf Guard Battle Leader: All all good choices as normal for either the Healing or Re-Rolls to wound.
>I will probably add them to my “Core” as I call it ...ok I admit it I have an addiction to Plasma… I will be placing them in my second line of defense just behind my Grey Hunters and in front of my Long Fangs along with either a Wolf Guard Battle Leader (With a Combi-Plasma and Wolf Claw) and a Wolf Priest nearby. This should give me a 30” wide control of my Backfield that I can put out safely 10 S8, AP-3, Damage 2 Fire.
Tomorrow with be the Primaris Lieutenant, one of the few ‘HQ Units’ I think are maybe as good as a Wolf Guard Battle Leader.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also want an opinion, should I do all the Land Raiders as one or each individual?
I am thinking each individual as there are now 4 to choose from.
I would say you can safely lump them all together. They are mostly the same except for their weapons, and don't have a lot of options.
I am interested in why you think the Primaris Lieutenant is any good for SW, as I see them as a more expensive WGBL with less options. I see them as good for normal SM, but thats about it.
The idea of leaving something with that much firepower behind has merit in hammer and anvil and for holding objectives.
I wonder how they'd stand up to the Relic?
Plasma incinerators are AP-4. I like them a lot and they pair well with Bjorn. Hellblasters provide volume of fire while Bjorn buffs them and handles anything trying to threaten them in melee.
Primaris Lieutenant (This extra one is for missing yesterday)
UNIT COMPOSITION: 1-2 Models that can be split up.
WARGEAR: Mark X Power Armor (Save 3+, T4, W2), Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle (24” Assault 2, S4, AP-, Damage 2), Bolt Pistol.
Options: May Replace the Master Craft Auto Bolt Rifle with a Power Sword.
Special Rules: >ATSKNF
>Tactical Precision: Essentially is the same as Huskarl of the Jarl: 6” Re-Roll 1s on Damage Bubble
Overview/How I would use them: They are practically the same as a Wolf Guard Battle Leader and possibly if I had the choice equipped the same way from time to time.
What they have to offer that the WGBL does not: >Well basically two things, first is the ability to take two for one HQ Slot.
>The second is the Master Crafted Auto Bolt Riffle. This gives you a 24” two shot weapon that you can fire on the mover that inflicts two wounds. This would make him a good choice for Gunline Grey Hunters or sitting back with the Long Fangs or even the Hellblasters.
>Give him the Power Sword and he looks good to hang with Mêlée Focused Packs like Wolf Guard or Grey Hunters.
Note: You noticed I Left out Blood Claws, well they do not get the Wolf Guard Keyword so they will not be able to control them.
Note: Since you can not put them on any Transport this will relegate them to Foot Slogging, hence my suggestion of sticking them near Gunline Grey Hunters, Long Fangs and Hellblasters.
Where I think they may be better than a Wolf Guard Battle Leader is when you are pressed for HQ Slots
(Remember I am not taking any Unit’s cost into my First Impressions, this is just how I see them and how they can be used, only you can decide if they are worth the price)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
crouching lictor wrote: Plasma incinerators are AP-4. I like them a lot and they pair well with Bjorn. Hellblasters provide volume of fire while Bjorn buffs them and handles anything trying to threaten them in melee.
Has someone tried the dread characters in this edition? I'm obviously referring to murderfang and bjorn.
They're footslogging now but they have decent movement and since they're characters they can be targeted by normal shooting. This combined to the new profile system that makes walkers more durable, they finally have the chance to do their stuff for a significant part of the game.
Murderfang in 7th edition was basically a bullet magnet and most of the times it didn't cause a single wound as it was gunned down all the time before having the chance to charge. The axe/shield dreads at least had a nice invuln. But now murderfang can really kick asses At last
Land Raiders UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1), Two Twin-Las-Cannons (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Land Raider Crusader: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin Hurricane Bolters (24” Rapid Fire 6, S4, AP-, Damage 1), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
>Land Raider Redeemer: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin FlameStorm Cannons (8” Have 1d6, S6, AP-2, Damage 2, Automatically Hits), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
Options: >Take a Multi-Melta (24” Heavy-1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 and take the Best Damage). I see very little reason not to take it.
>Take a Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1). Just take it, something you will never regret.
>Take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). If you have more than one Vehicle that can take it, it is so worth the Turn One Missile Barrage from 3-5 Vehicles.
Special Abilities: >Power of the Machine Spirit: Never take a Movement Penalty for Moving
>Smoke Launchers: Once per game -1 to be hit.
>Explodes: Well...
Transport Capacity: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: 10 Models
>Land Raider Crusader: 16 Models.
>Land Raider Redeemer: 12 Models
Overview/How I would use Them: Well off of them are tough models requiring a lot of Firepower focused at them to take down. Each one has a role they play on the Battlefield.
>Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Still lightly Bi-Polar, but not as bad. I think it works bast at what it is meant to be, a Merkava, a tough tank with infantry support. The only unit I think that would go poorly in it is Long Fangs and that is because they won’t be able to fire till they get out. Everything else should go good in it and you should be able to get them in close. As far as the Anti-Tank/MC role, toss on the Mulit-Melta and the HK Missile and not much will stand up to it for long.
>Land Raider Crusader: This is a Wall of Bolter Fire (40 Shots at 12” with the Storm Bolter, you took that right) at 12”. It should be doing horrible things to any Infantry Units and this is what you should be going after. The main goal is to get in close and let out the 15 Model Blood Claw Pack Led by a Wolf Priest or 5 Model Wolf Guard Terminator Pack led by Arjac, A Wolf Priest and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader after shooting the <Censored> at anything to close. Put this on an Objective and let them come to you with an insane amount Overwatch Fire and a chance of 1d3 Mortal Wounds.
>Land Raider Redeemer: While different to the Crusader it serves the same basic role of getting in close. Between the Twin Assault Cannons and the Two Hellstorm Cannons you will be putting off 12+2d6 S6 Attacks. I would use this as a Wolf Guard Trasport as you can get 10 Wolf Guard + 1-2 Charcter or a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack with someone like Arjac. Most units will probably thing twice before Assualting it. This looks to be a good Heavy Infantry, Light Vehicle Hunter.
Note: You can see I left off the Land Raider Excelsior, that is so I can do one covering it and the Rhinos Primaris as one...
Blackie wrote: Has someone tried the dread characters in this edition? I'm obviously referring to murderfang and bjorn.
They're footslogging now but they have decent movement and since they're characters they can be targeted by normal shooting. This combined to the new profile system that makes walkers more durable, they finally have the chance to do their stuff for a significant part of the game.
Murderfang in 7th edition was basically a bullet magnet and most of the times it didn't cause a single wound as it was gunned down all the time before having the chance to charge. The axe/shield dreads at least had a nice invuln. But now murderfang can really kick asses At last
I've found the opposite.
Murderfang used to arrive in a Lucius Pod or normal pod, from the normal pod he'd remove a unit with his Heavy Flamer and Storm Bolter along with the Drop Pod's Storm Bolter then get evaporated in my opponent's shooting phase - from the Lucius Pod he'd thin a unit, the Pod would absorb the fire and blow during my and he'd start wrecking enemy units, higher initiative MCs and other Dreads with power-fists were his weak points, as long as he kept picking on more than he could kill on the charge he kept covered and kept killing.
Now Murderfang needs bodyguards because my opponents want his scalp and can bail from melee to take it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anpu42 wrote: Land Raiders UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1), Two Twin-Las-Cannons (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Land Raider Crusader: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin Hurricane Bolters (24” Rapid Fire 6, S4, AP-, Damage 1), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
>Land Raider Redeemer: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin FlameStorm Cannons (8” Have 1d6, S6, AP-2, Damage 2, Automatically Hits), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
Options: >Take a Multi-Melta (24” Heavy-1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 and take the Best Damage). I see very little reason not to take it.
>Take a Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1). Just take it, something you will never regret.
>Take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). If you have more than one Vehicle that can take it, it is so worth the Turn One Missile Barrage from 3-5 Vehicles.
Special Abilities: >Power of the Machine Spirit: Never take a Movement Penalty for Moving
>Smoke Launchers: Once per game -1 to be hit.
>Explodes: Well...
Transport Capacity: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: 10 Models
>Land Raider Crusader: 16 Models.
>Land Raider Redeemer: 12 Models
Overview/How I would use Them: Well off of them are tough models requiring a lot of Firepower focused at them to take down. Each one has a role they play on the Battlefield.
>Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Still lightly Bi-Polar, but not as bad. I think it works bast at what it is meant to be, a Merkava, a tough tank with infantry support. The only unit I think that would go poorly in it is Long Fangs and that is because they won’t be able to fire till they get out. Everything else should go good in it and you should be able to get them in close. As far as the Anti-Tank/MC role, toss on the Mulit-Melta and the HK Missile and not much will stand up to it for long.
>Land Raider Crusader: This is a Wall of Bolter Fire (40 Shots at 12” with the Storm Bolter, you took that right) at 12”. It should be doing horrible things to any Infantry Units and this is what you should be going after. The main goal is to get in close and let out the 15 Model Blood Claw Pack Led by a Wolf Priest or 5 Model Wolf Guard Terminator Pack led by Arjac, A Wolf Priest and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader after shooting the <Censored> at anything to close. Put this on an Objective and let them come to you with an insane amount Overwatch Fire and a chance of 1d3 Mortal Wounds.
>Land Raider Redeemer: While different to the Crusader it serves the same basic role of getting in close. Between the Twin Assault Cannons and the Two Hellstorm Cannons you will be putting off 12+2d6 S6 Attacks. I would use this as a Wolf Guard Trasport as you can get 10 Wolf Guard + 1-2 Charcter or a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack with someone like Arjac. Most units will probably thing twice before Assualting it. This looks to be a good Heavy Infantry, Light Vehicle Hunter.
Note: You can see I left off the Land Raider Excelsior, that is so I can do one covering it and the Rhinos Primaris as one...
It's always been so hard to choose your Land Raider, last edition I went for the Redeemer in the Ironwolves formation, start the Wolf Guard that it's dedicated to on the field, grab the Wulfen bonus, load the Wulfen in and burn rubber - well, scuff metal tracks - into the enemy frontlines and fire as many weapons as possible. The Landraider goes boom during my opponent's turn, my Wulfen step out of the wreckage and unleash hell during my turn.
This edition...I think my Deathwatch will be using the Land Raider.
Anpu42 wrote: Land Raiders UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1), Two Twin-Las-Cannons (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Land Raider Crusader: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin Hurricane Bolters (24” Rapid Fire 6, S4, AP-, Damage 1), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
>Land Raider Redeemer: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin FlameStorm Cannons (8” Have 1d6, S6, AP-2, Damage 2, Automatically Hits), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
Options: >Take a Multi-Melta (24” Heavy-1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 and take the Best Damage). I see very little reason not to take it.
>Take a Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1). Just take it, something you will never regret.
>Take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). If you have more than one Vehicle that can take it, it is so worth the Turn One Missile Barrage from 3-5 Vehicles.
Special Abilities: >Power of the Machine Spirit: Never take a Movement Penalty for Moving
>Smoke Launchers: Once per game -1 to be hit.
>Explodes: Well...
Transport Capacity: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: 10 Models
>Land Raider Crusader: 16 Models.
>Land Raider Redeemer: 12 Models
Overview/How I would use Them: Well off of them are tough models requiring a lot of Firepower focused at them to take down. Each one has a role they play on the Battlefield.
>Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Still lightly Bi-Polar, but not as bad. I think it works bast at what it is meant to be, a Merkava, a tough tank with infantry support. The only unit I think that would go poorly in it is Long Fangs and that is because they won’t be able to fire till they get out. Everything else should go good in it and you should be able to get them in close. As far as the Anti-Tank/MC role, toss on the Mulit-Melta and the HK Missile and not much will stand up to it for long.
>Land Raider Crusader: This is a Wall of Bolter Fire (40 Shots at 12” with the Storm Bolter, you took that right) at 12”. It should be doing horrible things to any Infantry Units and this is what you should be going after. The main goal is to get in close and let out the 15 Model Blood Claw Pack Led by a Wolf Priest or 5 Model Wolf Guard Terminator Pack led by Arjac, A Wolf Priest and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader after shooting the <Censored> at anything to close. Put this on an Objective and let them come to you with an insane amount Overwatch Fire and a chance of 1d3 Mortal Wounds.
>Land Raider Redeemer: While different to the Crusader it serves the same basic role of getting in close. Between the Twin Assault Cannons and the Two Hellstorm Cannons you will be putting off 12+2d6 S6 Attacks. I would use this as a Wolf Guard Trasport as you can get 10 Wolf Guard + 1-2 Charcter or a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack with someone like Arjac. Most units will probably thing twice before Assualting it. This looks to be a good Heavy Infantry, Light Vehicle Hunter.
Note: You can see I left off the Land Raider Excelsior, that is so I can do one covering it and the Rhinos Primaris as one...
It's always been so hard to choose your Land Raider, last edition I went for the Redeemer in the Ironwolves formation, start the Wolf Guard that it's dedicated to on the field, grab the Wulfen bonus, load the Wulfen in and burn rubber - well, scuff metal tracks - into the enemy frontlines and fire as many weapons as possible. The Landraider goes boom during my opponent's turn, my Wulfen step out of the wreckage and unleash hell during my turn.
This edition...I think my Deathwatch will be using the Land Raider.
I had (I think I still have one, but not sure which one...long story), but it was a God Hammer, a Crusader and Redeemer and used them every so often, though when I did it was usually in pairs, the Crusader and Redeemer. Usually loaded up with Wolf Guard Terminators, Njal in Terminator Armor, Arjac and Logan (at 2,000 points it was 15 Models ). To make it work with 8th I had to make a few changes.
Anpu42 wrote: Land Raiders UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1), Two Twin-Las-Cannons (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Land Raider Crusader: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin Hurricane Bolters (24” Rapid Fire 6, S4, AP-, Damage 1), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
>Land Raider Redeemer: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin FlameStorm Cannons (8” Have 1d6, S6, AP-2, Damage 2, Automatically Hits), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
Options: >Take a Multi-Melta (24” Heavy-1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 and take the Best Damage). I see very little reason not to take it.
>Take a Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1). Just take it, something you will never regret.
>Take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). If you have more than one Vehicle that can take it, it is so worth the Turn One Missile Barrage from 3-5 Vehicles.
Special Abilities: >Power of the Machine Spirit: Never take a Movement Penalty for Moving
>Smoke Launchers: Once per game -1 to be hit.
>Explodes: Well...
Transport Capacity: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: 10 Models
>Land Raider Crusader: 16 Models.
>Land Raider Redeemer: 12 Models
Overview/How I would use Them: Well off of them are tough models requiring a lot of Firepower focused at them to take down. Each one has a role they play on the Battlefield.
>Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Still lightly Bi-Polar, but not as bad. I think it works bast at what it is meant to be, a Merkava, a tough tank with infantry support. The only unit I think that would go poorly in it is Long Fangs and that is because they won’t be able to fire till they get out. Everything else should go good in it and you should be able to get them in close. As far as the Anti-Tank/MC role, toss on the Mulit-Melta and the HK Missile and not much will stand up to it for long.
>Land Raider Crusader: This is a Wall of Bolter Fire (40 Shots at 12” with the Storm Bolter, you took that right) at 12”. It should be doing horrible things to any Infantry Units and this is what you should be going after. The main goal is to get in close and let out the 15 Model Blood Claw Pack Led by a Wolf Priest or 5 Model Wolf Guard Terminator Pack led by Arjac, A Wolf Priest and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader after shooting the <Censored> at anything to close. Put this on an Objective and let them come to you with an insane amount Overwatch Fire and a chance of 1d3 Mortal Wounds.
>Land Raider Redeemer: While different to the Crusader it serves the same basic role of getting in close. Between the Twin Assault Cannons and the Two Hellstorm Cannons you will be putting off 12+2d6 S6 Attacks. I would use this as a Wolf Guard Trasport as you can get 10 Wolf Guard + 1-2 Charcter or a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack with someone like Arjac. Most units will probably thing twice before Assualting it. This looks to be a good Heavy Infantry, Light Vehicle Hunter.
Note: You can see I left off the Land Raider Excelsior, that is so I can do one covering it and the Rhinos Primaris as one...
It's always been so hard to choose your Land Raider, last edition I went for the Redeemer in the Ironwolves formation, start the Wolf Guard that it's dedicated to on the field, grab the Wulfen bonus, load the Wulfen in and burn rubber - well, scuff metal tracks - into the enemy frontlines and fire as many weapons as possible. The Landraider goes boom during my opponent's turn, my Wulfen step out of the wreckage and unleash hell during my turn.
This edition...I think my Deathwatch will be using the Land Raider.
I had (I think I still have one, but not sure which one...long story), but it was a God Hammer, a Crusader and Redeemer and used them every so often, though when I did it was usually in pairs, the Crusader and Redeemer. Usually loaded up with Wolf Guard Terminators, Njal in Terminator Armor, Arjac and Logan (at 2,000 points it was 15 Models ). To make it work with 8th I had to make a few changes.
Anpu42 wrote: Land Raiders UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1), Two Twin-Las-Cannons (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Land Raider Crusader: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin Hurricane Bolters (24” Rapid Fire 6, S4, AP-, Damage 1), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
>Land Raider Redeemer: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin FlameStorm Cannons (8” Have 1d6, S6, AP-2, Damage 2, Automatically Hits), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
Options: >Take a Multi-Melta (24” Heavy-1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 and take the Best Damage). I see very little reason not to take it.
>Take a Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1). Just take it, something you will never regret.
>Take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). If you have more than one Vehicle that can take it, it is so worth the Turn One Missile Barrage from 3-5 Vehicles.
Special Abilities: >Power of the Machine Spirit: Never take a Movement Penalty for Moving
>Smoke Launchers: Once per game -1 to be hit.
>Explodes: Well...
Transport Capacity: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: 10 Models
>Land Raider Crusader: 16 Models.
>Land Raider Redeemer: 12 Models
Overview/How I would use Them: Well off of them are tough models requiring a lot of Firepower focused at them to take down. Each one has a role they play on the Battlefield.
>Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Still lightly Bi-Polar, but not as bad. I think it works bast at what it is meant to be, a Merkava, a tough tank with infantry support. The only unit I think that would go poorly in it is Long Fangs and that is because they won’t be able to fire till they get out. Everything else should go good in it and you should be able to get them in close. As far as the Anti-Tank/MC role, toss on the Mulit-Melta and the HK Missile and not much will stand up to it for long.
>Land Raider Crusader: This is a Wall of Bolter Fire (40 Shots at 12” with the Storm Bolter, you took that right) at 12”. It should be doing horrible things to any Infantry Units and this is what you should be going after. The main goal is to get in close and let out the 15 Model Blood Claw Pack Led by a Wolf Priest or 5 Model Wolf Guard Terminator Pack led by Arjac, A Wolf Priest and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader after shooting the <Censored> at anything to close. Put this on an Objective and let them come to you with an insane amount Overwatch Fire and a chance of 1d3 Mortal Wounds.
>Land Raider Redeemer: While different to the Crusader it serves the same basic role of getting in close. Between the Twin Assault Cannons and the Two Hellstorm Cannons you will be putting off 12+2d6 S6 Attacks. I would use this as a Wolf Guard Trasport as you can get 10 Wolf Guard + 1-2 Charcter or a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack with someone like Arjac. Most units will probably thing twice before Assualting it. This looks to be a good Heavy Infantry, Light Vehicle Hunter.
Note: You can see I left off the Land Raider Excelsior, that is so I can do one covering it and the Rhinos Primaris as one...
It's always been so hard to choose your Land Raider, last edition I went for the Redeemer in the Ironwolves formation, start the Wolf Guard that it's dedicated to on the field, grab the Wulfen bonus, load the Wulfen in and burn rubber - well, scuff metal tracks - into the enemy frontlines and fire as many weapons as possible. The Landraider goes boom during my opponent's turn, my Wulfen step out of the wreckage and unleash hell during my turn.
This edition...I think my Deathwatch will be using the Land Raider.
I had (I think I still have one, but not sure which one...long story), but it was a God Hammer, a Crusader and Redeemer and used them every so often, though when I did it was usually in pairs, the Crusader and Redeemer. Usually loaded up with Wolf Guard Terminators, Njal in Terminator Armor, Arjac and Logan (at 2,000 points it was 15 Models ). To make it work with 8th I had to make a few changes.
That's a really elite list, how have matches turned out for you?
Well first we are very casual Cheezy Poof and Dr. Pepper type players, but in 5th and 6th I never lost a match (And I still don't know how), never got to play it in 7th.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is the original:
Space Wolf 13 Model 1500 Point List
Here is a list I came up with for a 1500 point game. Like some others I just want to see what a low model count Space Wolf Army would do. For another 500 points I can add 2 Land Raiders.
Bjorn the Fell-Handed [Assault Cannon]
Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf
Logan’s Wolf Guard
-Arjac Rockfist, The Anvil of Fenris
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Frost Axe, Melta-Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Frost Axe Storm Shield, Melta Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Assault Cannon, Chain Fist]
Njal Stormcaller, Lord of Tempests [Runic Terminator Amour]
-Wolf Guard x4 [Paired Wolf Claws]
-Wolf Guard [Heavy Flamer, Chain Fist]
Anpu42 wrote: Land Raiders UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Twin Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1), Two Twin-Las-Cannons (48” Heavy 2, S9, AP-3, Damage 1d6)
>Land Raider Crusader: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin Hurricane Bolters (24” Rapid Fire 6, S4, AP-, Damage 1), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
>Land Raider Redeemer: Twin Assault Cannons (24” Heavy Heavy 12, S6, AP-1, Damage 1), Twin FlameStorm Cannons (8” Have 1d6, S6, AP-2, Damage 2, Automatically Hits), Frag Assault Launcher (50%/50% chance any Unit that gets close takes 1d3 Mortal Wounds)
Options: >Take a Multi-Melta (24” Heavy-1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 and take the Best Damage). I see very little reason not to take it.
>Take a Storm Bolter (24” Rapid Fire 2, S4, AP-, Damage 1). Just take it, something you will never regret.
>Take a Hunter Killer Missile (48” Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6, One Shot). If you have more than one Vehicle that can take it, it is so worth the Turn One Missile Barrage from 3-5 Vehicles.
Special Abilities: >Power of the Machine Spirit: Never take a Movement Penalty for Moving
>Smoke Launchers: Once per game -1 to be hit.
>Explodes: Well...
Transport Capacity: >Land Raider [God-Hammer]: 10 Models
>Land Raider Crusader: 16 Models.
>Land Raider Redeemer: 12 Models
Overview/How I would use Them: Well off of them are tough models requiring a lot of Firepower focused at them to take down. Each one has a role they play on the Battlefield.
>Land Raider [God-Hammer]: Still lightly Bi-Polar, but not as bad. I think it works bast at what it is meant to be, a Merkava, a tough tank with infantry support. The only unit I think that would go poorly in it is Long Fangs and that is because they won’t be able to fire till they get out. Everything else should go good in it and you should be able to get them in close. As far as the Anti-Tank/MC role, toss on the Mulit-Melta and the HK Missile and not much will stand up to it for long.
>Land Raider Crusader: This is a Wall of Bolter Fire (40 Shots at 12” with the Storm Bolter, you took that right) at 12”. It should be doing horrible things to any Infantry Units and this is what you should be going after. The main goal is to get in close and let out the 15 Model Blood Claw Pack Led by a Wolf Priest or 5 Model Wolf Guard Terminator Pack led by Arjac, A Wolf Priest and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader after shooting the <Censored> at anything to close. Put this on an Objective and let them come to you with an insane amount Overwatch Fire and a chance of 1d3 Mortal Wounds.
>Land Raider Redeemer: While different to the Crusader it serves the same basic role of getting in close. Between the Twin Assault Cannons and the Two Hellstorm Cannons you will be putting off 12+2d6 S6 Attacks. I would use this as a Wolf Guard Trasport as you can get 10 Wolf Guard + 1-2 Charcter or a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack with someone like Arjac. Most units will probably thing twice before Assualting it. This looks to be a good Heavy Infantry, Light Vehicle Hunter.
Note: You can see I left off the Land Raider Excelsior, that is so I can do one covering it and the Rhinos Primaris as one...
It's always been so hard to choose your Land Raider, last edition I went for the Redeemer in the Ironwolves formation, start the Wolf Guard that it's dedicated to on the field, grab the Wulfen bonus, load the Wulfen in and burn rubber - well, scuff metal tracks - into the enemy frontlines and fire as many weapons as possible. The Landraider goes boom during my opponent's turn, my Wulfen step out of the wreckage and unleash hell during my turn.
This edition...I think my Deathwatch will be using the Land Raider.
I had (I think I still have one, but not sure which one...long story), but it was a God Hammer, a Crusader and Redeemer and used them every so often, though when I did it was usually in pairs, the Crusader and Redeemer. Usually loaded up with Wolf Guard Terminators, Njal in Terminator Armor, Arjac and Logan (at 2,000 points it was 15 Models ). To make it work with 8th I had to make a few changes.
That's a really elite list, how have matches turned out for you?
Well first we are very casual Cheezy Poof and Dr. Pepper type players, but in 5th and 6th I never lost a match (And I still don't know how), never got to play it in 7th.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is the original:
Space Wolf 13 Model 1500 Point List
Here is a list I came up with for a 1500 point game. Like some others I just want to see what a low model count Space Wolf Army would do. For another 500 points I can add 2 Land Raiders.
Bjorn the Fell-Handed [Assault Cannon]
Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf
Logan’s Wolf Guard
-Arjac Rockfist, The Anvil of Fenris
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Frost Axe, Melta-Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Frost Axe Storm Shield, Melta Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Assault Cannon, Chain Fist]
Njal Stormcaller, Lord of Tempests [Runic Terminator Amour]
-Wolf Guard x4 [Paired Wolf Claws]
-Wolf Guard [Heavy Flamer, Chain Fist]
No real tactics, just barreled into my opponent (Usually Orks) either on foot or in the Land Raiders when I had them. I also had insane luck with all of them each time I pulled them out. Oddly enough it was Arjac who usually had the most kills, more than once I threw the hammer and Exploded the Transport killing 90% of what was in it. Njal was the other big winner and I only use JotWW like twice. Once challenges came around...it was Arjac Blows up the Truck with a hammer toss, then charges the Ork Mob, Arjac kills the War Boss and any surviving Orks run off the table, rinse, repeat.
Like I said and have to many people, I don't know why this list Wins, it just does. Now I will admit when the game is over the total wounds on my side left on the table could be counted on one hand.
Now Murderfang needs bodyguards because my opponents want his scalp and can bail from melee to take it.
Of course, but I don't play SW without at least 4 grounded melee units among wulfen, thunderwolves or a blob of blood claws, while in the future I'll probably add the wolf guard bikers and maybe even terminators. I may run one single full unit of thunderwolves, blood claws, murderfang and a squad of wulfen. Basically the dread is going to replace the second unit of wulfen or thunderwolves.
Not that it's going to be the way to go, since I hate playing with less than 10 wulfen but it can be a nice alternative
No real tactics, just barreled into my opponent (Usually Orks) either on foot or in the Land Raiders when I had them. I also had insane luck with all of them each time I pulled them out. Oddly enough it was Arjac who usually had the most kills, more than once I threw the hammer and Exploded the Transport killing 90% of what was in it. Njal was the other big winner and I only use JotWW like twice. Once challenges came around...it was Arjac Blows up the Truck with a hammer toss, then charges the Ork Mob, Arjac kills the War Boss and any surviving Orks run off the table, rinse, repeat.
Like I said and have to many people, I don't know why this list Wins, it just does. Now I will admit when the game is over the total wounds on my side left on the table could be counted on one hand.
Killing 90% of the embarked unit is extremely lucky. I can't see how a list with only 13 bodies is going to defeat orks. It's probably a matter of that specific ork list or style of playing. With land raiders maybe, but with a footslogging unit, some characters and a deep strike squad a list with 150-300 wounds should be able to wipe out the elite army or at least win for the objective.
Now Murderfang needs bodyguards because my opponents want his scalp and can bail from melee to take it.
Of course, but I don't play SW without at least 4 grounded melee units among wulfen, thunderwolves or a blob of blood claws, while in the future I'll probably add the wolf guard bikers and maybe even terminators. I may run one single full unit of thunderwolves, blood claws, murderfang and a squad of wulfen. Basically the dread is going to replace the second unit of wulfen or thunderwolves.
Not that it's going to be the way to go, since I hate playing with less than 10 wulfen but it can be a nice alternative
Yeah...some Storm Shields might be an idea, especially when they can move as fast as or faster than Murderfang.
No real tactics, just barreled into my opponent (Usually Orks) either on foot or in the Land Raiders when I had them. I also had insane luck with all of them each time I pulled them out. Oddly enough it was Arjac who usually had the most kills, more than once I threw the hammer and Exploded the Transport killing 90% of what was in it. Njal was the other big winner and I only use JotWW like twice. Once challenges came around...it was Arjac Blows up the Truck with a hammer toss, then charges the Ork Mob, Arjac kills the War Boss and any surviving Orks run off the table, rinse, repeat.
Like I said and have to many people, I don't know why this list Wins, it just does. Now I will admit when the game is over the total wounds on my side left on the table could be counted on one hand.
Killing 90% of the embarked unit is extremely lucky. I can't see how a list with only 13 bodies is going to defeat orks. It's probably a matter of that specific ork list or style of playing. With land raiders maybe, but with a footslogging unit, some characters and a deep strike squad a list with 150-300 wounds should be able to wipe out the elite army or at least win for the objective.
Nova blasts? The thirteen bodies hang on long enough that the Orks surround Njal and he Thunder Claps to force so many save checks that the tide can't hold together but is forced to pile in and cop another Clap anyway?
It's a stretch but it's all I can think of
Killing 90% of the embarked unit is extremely lucky. I can't see how a list with only 13 bodies is going to defeat orks. It's probably a matter of that specific ork list or style of playing. With land raiders maybe, but with a footslogging unit, some characters and a deep strike squad a list with 150-300 wounds should be able to wipe out the elite army or at least win for the objective.
Well remember he said he ran this list back in 5th and 6th when Orks were still struggling and one good round of combat from one of the elites could wipe the ENTIRE Ork squad with initiative test results. >.>
jcd386 wrote: As far as i can tell, you can't upgrade a Wolf Lords that use the Captain entry with Space Wolves wargear, though i would love to shown otherwise.
They've FAQ'ed it to say they anything in that list can take wolf stuff, which is how I'd figured it worked anyway but it's nice to have it in writing I guess.
jcd386 wrote: As far as i can tell, you can't upgrade a Wolf Lords that use the Captain entry with Space Wolves wargear, though i would love to shown otherwise.
They've FAQ'ed it to say they anything in that list can take wolf stuff, which is how I'd figured it worked anyway but it's nice to have it in writing I guess.
No, you can't.
If you are an unscrupulous git you could rules-lawyer that you could put 10 Wulfen in a Drop Pod, but you wouldn't make any friends with that kind of WAAC behavior.
Ragnar69 wrote: No, you can't.
If you are an unscrupulous git you could rules-lawyer that you could put 10 Wulfen in a Drop Pod, but you wouldn't make any friends with that kind of WAAC behavior.
What's wrong with transporting Wulfen? There is nothing in the Transport rules or the Wulfen rules to imply you cannot.
There is a list with all units from the normal SMs that SWs can use (i.e. the tanks, the primaris stuff, the captain,...). Some, like the Land Raiders, have an asterix. This means those units can transport Wulfen and they count as 2 models.
Drop Pods, Rhinos and Razorbacks don't have that asterix. So it is very clear to any decent human being that those are not supposed to transport Wulfen. But some cut-throat investment banker types could argue that Wulfen are Astartes infantry and thus you could cram 10 in a Rhino/Drop Pod.
In the first page of the SW codex is clearly stated that land raiders can also transport wulfen and that they count as two models.
In the stormwolf's profile there's also the statement that wulfen count as two models.
Drop pods, rhinos and razorbacks can't carry wulfen, only land raiders and the stormwolf can, and of course, they count as two models.
The stormfang gunship doesn't have enough seats as it can carry only 6 models and min squads of wulfen count as 10 in terms of trasnport capacity, but if you lose some models in battle that flyer can carry wulfen too.
Yea, 10 wulfen in pod or rhino kinda ridiculous. I just want to make sure lol. Even im playing with 10 wulfen squad with 4 shield, they melt everything and my enemy spend the whole shooting phase on them.
Btw Arjac is a badass
Skyclaws UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-10+1 Models (4-9 Skyclaws, 1 Skyclaw Pack Leader and may add a Wolf Guard Sky Leader)
WARGEAR: Powered Armor: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades, Jump Pack
Options: >Up to two models may replace their Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol or a Space Wolf Special Weapon.
>The Skyclaw Pack Leader may replace their Chainsword with a weapon from the Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon list
>The Wolf Guard Sky Leader may replace their Chainsword with a weapon from the Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon list and/or Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol or a Space Wolf Combi-Weapon.
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Jump Pack Assault: May start in Reserves and Deep Strike and has the Fly Keyword.
>Berserk Charge: +1 Attack on the Charge
>Headstrong: If not near a Wolf Guard they must try to Charge and yes the Wolf Guard Sky Leader Counts.
Overview/How I would use Them: While not as good as the Powered Armored Wolf Guard with Jump Lacks they can be good themselves. They would also mix well with Powered Armored Wolf Guard with Jump Packs as they are Wolf Guard and can keep the Headstrong under check.
>Pure Assault Force: Take either the Pair of Plasma Pistols or either a Melta-Gun or Flamer. Give the Skyclaw Pack Leader a Power/Frost Weapon. The Wolf Guard Sky Leader should take the same with the addition of either a Plasma Pistol or Combi-Flamer/Combi-Melta. I would tend to go with the Plasma Pistol.
>Hit and Run: Go with the Plasma Guns/Combi-Plasma and Disengage a lot. Remember you have the Fly Rule. Just fall back 10” and Fire during the Shooting Phase and most likely Overwatch when they charge you.
Falling Back Units starting the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or Fall Back. If you choose to Fall Back, the unit must end its move more than 1" away from all enemy units. If a unit Falls Back, it cannot Advance, or charge later that turn. A unit that Falls Back also cannot shoot later that turn unless it can Fly.
>Wolf Priest: Something I just noticed...Wolf Priest do no have the Wolf Guard Keyword...So it is another reason to take a Wolf Guard Battle Leader.
Yeah Pretty Clear, Wolf Guard in the Headstrong rule is a keyword (thats why it is bolt) and the unit regardless of its name need the keyword to count (thats why we have the keywords in the first place)
the same reason why a unit with Terminator WGPL could use a Rhino, it was missing the Terminator keyword (the name alone does not count) before the FAQ added it.
As long as no Errata adds the Wolf Guard keyword to the Wolf Guard Pack Leader.
So RAW it is 100% clear, the WG Pack Leader does not count for the Headstrong rule
and the reason why he is not just called Pack Leader, because there is already another model for every unit that is a simple Pack Leader.
I wouldnt have run a WGPL in termie armour in a rhino, as every man and his dog know that. Regardless of keywords!
As for the rules, its a bit messed up so far. As we have so much customisation in our units, they really should have thought on before putting evertyhing down...
As for the pack leader thing, i was being sarcastic. Doesnt come across in text.
The Headstrong rule is pretty clear. Either the squad has to have a Wolf Guard Pack Leader in it, or it has to be within 6" of something with the Wolf Guard keyword.
The Wolf Guard Pack Leaders do no have the Wolf Guard keyword, so they don't effect other squads, just their own.
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword, however, and do count for the headstrong rule.
with the last FAQ it is impossible to say what is really intended and what is a mistake
I would have never thought about using stuff instead of shooting if the unit is not allowed to shoot in the first place
the FAQ say it is and therefore, if GW would have not added the Terminator keyword, I would have believed that it is intended
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword,
I was surprised by how little I cared about the Headstrong rule in my last game.
There were very few turns where I didn't have every intention of charging anyway.
kodos wrote: with the last FAQ it is impossible to say what is really intended and what is a mistake
I would have never thought about using stuff instead of shooting if the unit is not allowed to shoot in the first place
the FAQ say it is and therefore, if GW would have not added the Terminator keyword, I would have believed that it is intended
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword,
no, WGPL don't have the keyword
The Wolf Guard Pack Leader does not need the Keyword.
Blood Claws
Headstrong: Unless the unit contains a Wolf Guard Pack Leader or Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor or is within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard, it must declare a charge if possible to do so.
Skyclaws
Headstrong: Unless the unit contains a Skyclaw Pack Leader or is within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard, it must declare a charge if possible to do so.
Swiftclaws
Headstrong: Unless the unit contains a Wolf Guard Bike Leader or is within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard, it must declare a charge if possible to do so.
kodos wrote: with the last FAQ it is impossible to say what is really intended and what is a mistake
I would have never thought about using stuff instead of shooting if the unit is not allowed to shoot in the first place
the FAQ say it is and therefore, if GW would have not added the Terminator keyword, I would have believed that it is intended
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword,
no, WGPL don't have the keyword
You'll notice that's why i left them out of that list.
I agree you don't care much about having to charge, especially of you aren't footslogging. However, unless you are taking 5 man squads or 3 man bikes, you'll almost never have a reason not to take the pack leader in order to get a combi-weapon and/or melee weapon on him.
The Wolf Guard Pack Leader does not need the Keyword.
ok, my Index only mention Wolf Guard and not the Pack Leaders for the rule.
(was there something in the FAQ or are the different language version missing stuff?)
Lone Wolves UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Lone Wolf in Power Armor (6”, 3+, T4, W3): Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades.
>Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor (5”, 2+/5++, T4, W4): Power Sword and Storm Bolter
Options: Lone Wolf in Power Armor:
>May Replace his Chainsword with one weapon from the Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon List
>May Replace his Bolt Pistol with a Storm Shield (3++), Plasma Pistol or an item on the Space Wolf Combi-Weapon List
Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor: Power Sword and Storm Bolter
>May Replace his Power Sword with any Weapon on the Space Wolf Terminator Mêlée List
>May Replace his Storm Bolter with a Storm Shield (3++) or an item on the Space Wolf Combi-Weapon List.
Special Abilities: >A Glorious Death...: Feel No Pain on a 4+ when you take your final wound. Basically then if you die in a Mêlée you get one more set of attacks against the Target that killed you.
>...Worthy of a Saga: Re-Roll Failed 1s to Wound during the Fight Phase vs Characters and/or Monsters.
>Army of one: Can never be the Warlord.
>Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor: Teleport Strike
How I would use them: Nostalgia Time, I miss just taking a pair of Lone Wolves with his Chainsword, Storm Shield, Mark of the Wulfen and two Furry Meat Shields. 1D6+1 Rending Attacks made him a beast. My other one was in Terminator Armor with a Wolf Claws and a Chain Fist. It is a shame that they can not take a second Wolf Claw.
>Lone Wolf in Power Armor: I would go with my old stand by, a Storm Shield and a Frost Sword. That keeps them simple and strait forward. A Frost Axe or Thunder Hammer could also work out well. I would use a Wulfen Pack as the Bodyguard to give them the Re-Roll on the Charge or the Extra Attack. You can also shove them in any transport with an open slot if you have one to get them across the board. One Lone Wolf with 9 Power Armored Wolf Wolf Guard would work good.
>Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor:...I am not sure completely as now my old option is not viable. Take a Storm Shield, they are cheep and for the most part you want the Lone Wolf in Mêlée as much as possible. Most Weapon Choices are good, but I think the Thunder Hammer and Chain Fist are most likely the best choices as they will still be hitting on a 3+. Teleport him in with a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack for some extra Punch.
The Wolf Guard Pack Leader does not need the Keyword.
ok, my Index only mention Wolf Guard and not the Pack Leaders for the rule.
(was there something in the FAQ or are the different language version missing stuff?)
Print vs Digital index differ here, even in English. The digital copy includes the WGPL and the print index left it out.
Print vs Digital index differ here, even in English. The digital copy includes the WGPL and the print index left it out.
I'd go with the Digital as correct.
ok, than to everyone here, please accept my apologies for making troubles, I was wrong
I quite like the idea of multiple TDA Lone Wolves and a pack of Wulfen. Run the Wulfen up to the enemy on T1 and teleport the Lone Wolves 9" away. With several models attempting to charge and all getting a reroll, you have good odds that a couple of them will make contact with the enemy.
I feel like you almost always might as well take a tooled out WGBL or Wolf Lord instead and get the sweet re-roll auras and very similar stats.
Overpriced is the word I'd used.
It's been overpriced because it's a smallish easily placed single model unit with a personal deployment system. It's very versatile, it's just not 121 points versatile.
Murderfang UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Storm Bolter: (24” Rapid Fire 2, Hit on 3+, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Heavy Flamer: (8” Heavy 1d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Always Hits)
>The Murderclaws (Mêlée 5, Hit on a 2+, S12, AP-3, Damage 3, Re-Roll Failed to Wound Rolls)
Options: None
Special Abilities: >Murderlust: Re-Roll Failed Charges
Overview/How I would use Him: Well there is not much to say about his that his name does not tell you. He is sort of a Lone Wolf in Dreadnaught form...and I kind of wish they built him that way…He is tough, but does not have an Invulnerable save which I think is his one true weakness, but he is a character.
>Mêlée: With is hitting on a 2+ and Re-Rolls of failed Wounds he will be inflicting a lot of wounds very quickly and if you can get a Wolf Priest or Wolf Lord near him he will be Re-Rolling to hits also. With his 5 S12, Damage 3 Attacks he can quickly tear into any Monster or Vehicle possibility inflicting 15 Wounds.
>Shooting: He has the potential to put out 4+1d6 Shots before he gets to plow into a unit giving him a potential to kill 9+1d6 Models.
>Blood Claws: These would make a good Bodyguard for him, just for the large number you can field.
>Grey Hunters: Only if you are going for the more Close Combat version of them. Though tossing him into the middle of a Rhino Rush to deal with anything that Assaults the Rhinos.
Wolf Guard: Another good choice as a Counter Charge Unit (Counter Charge Units do have to be in just your backfield.
>Thunderwolves: Make your opponent sweat it out as the Pack of Thunderwolves charge them knowing that in a few moments a Half...mostly crazed Dreadnaught is behind them. Murderfang will have to advance to keep up, but this combo is not going to be doing a lot of shooting anyways.
>Herald Deathwolf and a bunch of Wolves: Here is another good mix that is fast. Murderfang will have to advance to keep up, but this combo is not going to be doing a lot of shooting anyways.
>Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf: You might want to keep one close to heal him up as after the first time he impacts and kills 5 models Murderfang will become a Bullet Magnet.
>Other Dreads: If you are fielding a Heavy Dreadnaught force, especially with the Axe/Board Dreads along with Bjorn what is one more in the mix.
Overall I think he can make a great alternative to your normal Dreadnaught Force.
Late last edition Murderfang was an absolute workhorse for me.
190 points when put in a Lucius Pod - Murderfang demanded attention, he had six attacks base, d3 extra attacks on the charge and d3 extra attacks for being outnumbered, the only things that could tangle with him and expect to win were the MCs that nobody was taking.
Mass murderer, vehicle buster and badass.
This edition - Murderfang is more expensive and less murder than he was, delivery is more expensive and that Heavy Flamer attention getter is out of range on entry.
...the only things that could tangle with him and expect to win were the MCs that nobody was taking.
Like what? 7th edition was dominated by MCs. Armies that could have them always abused the spam of MCs.
Most of the MCs being taken were low initiative, shootie beasties.
I happily murdered Wraithknights and Riptides with Murderfang.
Daemon Princes were where Murderfang fell short.
Also tyranids beasts and dark eldar talos were effective against murdefang. Both pretty common if not mandatory if you played those armies.
Yeah tau big robots were (and still are) crappy in close combat but it's wasn't that easy to assault them with a dread, they were shielded by drones, warriors, pathfinders or terrain and had a long range movement. Not to mention than tau could wreck the pod and then the dread with their average shooting.
I've never achieved anything with murderfang, or any other dread, in 7th edition, but I haven't tried the Lucius pod as in my group FW is basically banned
I prefer SW dreads in this edition, footslogging, and safe from normal shooting. They're just too expensive for what they do, though.
Actually, I never faced Dark Eldar late in seventh.
That was a big disappointment since I got absolutely scalped by them in one of my first tournaments back in 2014.
Nids on the other hand I never had much trouble with - luck was on my side or just really against the Nid player in shooting down Flyrants.
In 6th and 7th that was laughable, some of the things GW was giving Tau and CW Eldar...most Forgeworld stuff was pretty humble in comparison.
In actual use against Eldar and Tau the Lucius Pod delivery service was stupidly good, my favourite memory is still putting a pod down beside those jump when you target them for shooting...Striking Scorpions? I'm strugglng to remember their name and aiming three Heavy Flamer templates at a vehicle behind them "Oh, your jumpy dudes got caught in the crossfire? Oh, oops."
In actual use against Eldar and Tau the Lucius Pod delivery service was stupidly good, my favourite memory is still putting a pod down beside those jump when you target them for shooting...Striking Scorpions? I'm strugglng to remember their name and aiming three Heavy Flamer templates at a vehicle behind them "Oh, your jumpy dudes got caught in the crossfire? Oh, oops."
They're Warp Spiders, the most annoying unit in the history of 40k
just play 2 games got destroyed by tau and primaris. any suggestion against shooty army?
i play with
Arjac
5 termies (2shield/th,1assault cannon, 1 wolf claws, 1 combi melta chain fist)
5 wulfen ( 2th/ss 2 axe and 1 leader)
rhino carrying:
Ragnar
rune priest
5 melta long fang
turn 2 most of my army gone, 2 termies, 2 wulfen, ragnar and all long fangs left
Huskar123 wrote: just play 2 games got destroyed by tau and primaris. any suggestion against shooty army?
i play with
Arjac
5 termies (2shield/th,1assault cannon, 1 wolf claws, 1 combi melta chain fist)
5 wulfen ( 2th/ss 2 axe and 1 leader)
rhino carrying:
Ragnar
rune priest
5 melta long fang
turn 2 most of my army gone, 2 termies, 2 wulfen, ragnar and all long fangs left
In actual use against Eldar and Tau the Lucius Pod delivery service was stupidly good, my favourite memory is still putting a pod down beside those jump when you target them for shooting...Striking Scorpions? I'm strugglng to remember their name and aiming three Heavy Flamer templates at a vehicle behind them "Oh, your jumpy dudes got caught in the crossfire? Oh, oops."
They're Warp Spiders, the most annoying unit in the history of 40k
Huskar123 wrote: just play 2 games got destroyed by tau and primaris. any suggestion against shooty army?
i play with
Arjac
5 termies (2shield/th,1assault cannon, 1 wolf claws, 1 combi melta chain fist)
5 wulfen ( 2th/ss 2 axe and 1 leader)
rhino carrying:
Ragnar
rune priest
5 melta long fang
turn 2 most of my army gone, 2 termies, 2 wulfen, ragnar and all long fangs left
I see 3 HQs listed but only a few units in total. Maybe you can try to make use of fast units like wolf guard bikers and TWC dropping ragnar and the priest. Keep arjac and take the second HQ with a thunderwolf mount, bike or jump pack. Scouts can be useful against static shooty armies as they can be deployed quite far from your deployment zone and have access to some nice weapons. Long fangs are great if positioned in cover and equipped with lascannons, plasma cannons or missile launchers, multi meltas have a short range.
the primaris basically from dark imperium set, the tau take some stormsurge, fire warrior in devilfish alot of drones. re roll 1 really hurts, and they can all overwatch when i charge their mate.
I see 3 HQs listed but only a few units in total. Maybe you can try to make use of fast units like wolf guard bikers and TWC dropping ragnar and the priest. Keep arjac and take the second HQ with a thunderwolf mount, bike or jump pack. Scouts can be useful against static shooty armies as they can be deployed quite far from your deployment zone and have access to some nice weapons. Long fangs are great if positioned in cover and equipped with lascannons, plasma cannons or missile launchers, multi meltas have a short range.
yeah want to add scout to my army, is 10 sniper scout enough? or i need to equip them differently?
Arjac Rockfist UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: Terminator Armor (T4, W5, 2+/5++)
Foe Hammer
>Mêlée 4, Hits on a 2+, S10, AP-3, Damage 1d3, When Attacking a Character or Monster Damage is 3.
>12” Assault 1, Hits on a 3+, S10, AP-3, Damage 1d3, When Attacking a Character or Monster Damage is 3.
Anvil Shield: Save 2+/3++ and all Damage taken by Arjac is reduced to 1, minimum of 1.
Options: None
Special Abilities: Champion of the Kingsguard
>Re-Roll failed Rolls to to hit vs Characters.
>Any Wolf Guard unit within 6” Gains 1 Attack...this includes Arjac.
Teleport Strike...what needs to be said.
Thane to the Thane High King: Re-Roll Wounds for any Space Wolf unit within 6”
Overview/How I would use them: Thor...sorry Arjac is a brutal beast. With his 12” range with Mjölnir...sorry again, Foe Hammer having a range of 12” he can even attack with a Teleport Strike. His ability to take his are...amazing with the damage absorption and 3++ save.
Wolf Guard: Any are great when they are near him, though Wolf Guard Terminators are the Wolf Guard of choice. A mix of Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers and paired Wolf Claws should make short work of most things.[i]
Wolf Priest in Terminator Armor: I would see about how to get one with him if you are doing a Deep Strike, just to take care of those little big bites.
Logan: I would only try to team him up with the Footslogging Logan either out of a Land Raider or Deep Strike.
The most successful use I ever had with him was in a Land Raider Crusader with 5 Wolf Guard Terminators, Logan, a Wolf Priest and Njal in Terminator Armor. They alone took down 3 Chimeras and their Squads, a Leman Russ, and a Hydra. Arjac took down most of the vehicles and survived 3 in the face Vehicle Explosions. I sort of expect his to be the same in 8th.
Arjac is a beast. I run him, a wolf priest, and a melee focused Wolf Guard terminator pack in a stormwolf and they absolutely destroy large swathes of the enemy.
I'm really not a fan of sniper scouts. They output very little damage and you can't really rely on rolling 6s. I'd tool the scouts up with short range shooting / melee and a pack leader and pop then behind enemeny lines, ideally in cover, to shoot and attempt to assault an anemy backline unit. That being said, in not sure scouts really solve any of the problems you're been having.
Anytime you make a list, you nee to make sure you have the tools to handle the variety of threats you are likely to encounter. This edition, ive found those things to as follows:
1. Heavy infantry (anything with 2 wounds or more, and tsons)
2. T7 and T8 vehicles.
3. Mass infantry.
There isn't one right way to handle these things, really, but some solutions may generally work better than others depending on what your list is made up of.
For killing heavy infantry, such as terminators, primaris, tsons, or tau suits, you really want a way to deal 2+ damage to them, at ideally a high rate of fire. I've found overcharged plasma on grey hunters, wolf guard, and wolf scouts to be very effective. A dreadnought with twin autocannons also works well. In close combat, thunder hammers and dreadnoughts are the most reliable solution here. Heavy weapons like las, missiles, and meltas work too, but have a lower number of shots so are not very reliable. The alternative solution is to simply drown them in armor saves, making storm bolters, assault cannons, blood claws, and wolf guard pretty decent at it, however i would be hesatant to fully rely on these methods since it is not very efficient to kill heavy infantry one wound at a time.
Against vehicle heavy lists, such as 6+ razorbacks, you need to be able to either kill 1-2 in shooting each turn, or quickly be able to assault them. Las cannons and missiles are the most obvious solution, making long fangs, predators, and razorbacks good choices here, but assault units like blood claws, TWC, or wolf scouts work too, though i feel like assault might be the harder solution. You just need to get past whatever bubble wrap is protecting the vehicles, and make sure you take full advantage of the assault move and consolidation rules to lock up as many units as you can. Things like not declaring a charge against a unit, but still moving within 1" during your assault move or consolation to just lock it up works well. You really don't even have to kill the vehicles outright, as forcing a 100+ point vehicle to fall back and not shoot for a turn is usually good enough while you actually throw attacks againts units that can hurt you. I also feel like rhinos are important in an assault oriented list, as they are basically big overwatch soaking monstrous creatures and are great for throwing into armies like tau to shrug off overwatch and lock as many units as possible into assault with them. Probably the only vehicles this doesn't work great against are Knights, which really do need d6 damage shooting, mortal wounds, thunderhammers, or at the very least lots of s5 attacks (twc with wolf claws or frost blades will do some damage, and although it's not ideal by any means, its better than s4 attacks wounding on 6s).
Infantry are handled with lots of weak shots, making storm bolters, frag missiles, and flamers good shooting options, and blood claws, power armor wolf guard with chainswords, and twc all good choices. Arjac and wulfen also notably buff these units to be even better at killing infantry. Some fun anti infantry units that come to mind for me are wolf guard bikes with storm bolters and chainswords (8 shots and 3 melee attacks each!), landspeeders with double heavy flamers (also great for locking a unit that has a hard time killing it in close combat), and double chainsword wolf guard.
To me the hard but also fun part of building a list is figuring out how to handle all three of these things at once, and finding units that are good at 2+ of them at once, such as Long fangs with missile launchers are good vs tanks and infantry, dreadnoughts with autocannons being good vs heavy infantry, light vehicles, and decent at killing infantry, or grey hunters being good at killing heavy infantry with plasma and decent at killing infantry in assault with their chainswords.
So far I've had success bringing what i consider to be a redundant variety of units, usually with at least 2 solutions to each unit type so losing one unit doesn't mean i can't handle something anymore. The easiest way to do this is to take x2 or x3 of a unit, but i think it's also possible to take even more variety as long as they are similarly hard to kill (you don't want any obvious targets in a list, if possible) and output good damage for their points.
My last list had 2 rhinos to soak overwatch and tie things up, 3 grey hunter units to plasma things, 2 razorbacks with twin assault cannons to kill infantry, 3 long fangs with missiles as anti armor/infantry, 2 twin autocannon dreads as anti heavy infantry/light vehicles, 5 shooty wolf guard terminators to mess up the enemy back line, a rune priest to give my tanks a cover bubble, a wolf lord to let my tanks and grey hunters reroll 1s to hit, and 2 wolf guard battle leaders to let my army reroll 1s to wound (I've found these rerolls to be worth taking so many HQs, and smite is worth taking the rune priest imo). I think the main thing i'd have trouble with is 3-4 knights, but i think i can handle most other things pretty well.
I think there are tons of different ways to make a good list (mine is no where near perfect, I'm sure) but i think the core principles stay pretty much the same no matter what kind of list you want to make, be it shooty, assaulty, deep striking, or whatever. Then it's just playing the game smartly, and getting used to the nuances of 8th (mostly involving the assault phase, i think), but that's a different post lol as this one is already too long as it is.
Yea, in this edition you need vehicle. My plan for my army is to use least vehicle, 2 tanks(rhino,razorback or land riders) and 1 stormwolf or stormfang. But I need more than that.
After you state we have to handle 3 problems, long fangs are really good they can handle all 3. Just bring 3 squad, 1 with all plasma, 1 all melta, 1 missile launcher/ bolter, put them in 3 razorback. You can put character each. What do you think?
And 15 bloodclaws is very good against mass model(ork boys or pox walker) you run them with lucas and/or wolf priest. I want to try bring them inside stormwolf
Oh yea model inside vehicles counted as in the battlefield right? For the purpose of deployment.
Btw I played with power so far, not with point. May be this effect the game outcome.
Huskar123 wrote: just play 2 games got destroyed by tau and primaris. any suggestion against shooty army?
i play with
Arjac
5 termies (2shield/th,1assault cannon, 1 wolf claws, 1 combi melta chain fist)
5 wulfen ( 2th/ss 2 axe and 1 leader)
rhino carrying:
Ragnar
rune priest
5 melta long fang
turn 2 most of my army gone, 2 termies, 2 wulfen, ragnar and all long fangs left
Me I'd swap Ragnar for an Iron Priest, change the Long Fangs from Melta to a combination of Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters and get some mobility and Storm Caller for the Rune Priest. Then I'd trade the Wulfen in for Wolf Guard on Bikes with Combi-Bolter Boltguns, Chainswords and Storm Shields.
Crazy as it sounds keep your distance and do what you can to keep the Long Fangs and Iron Priest behind the Rhino and the Rhino in cover until after you've picked off his longer ranged weaponry or the drones, although both would be nice.
Be patient, Tau just fly away from combat and Primaris Marines are no slouches at it either - use Arjak and the Termies and later the Bikers to force your opponent to turn away from the Rhino as often as possible so the Iron Priest gets a chance to repair it.
Same story with the Termies and Bikers, keep them in cover as often as possible, use the Rune Priest to keep the cover on the Bikers if there isn't enough natural protection.
And 15 bloodclaws is very good against mass model(ork boys or pox walker) you run them with lucas and/or wolf priest. I want to try bring them inside stormwolf
One of my fav combo Just take ulrik instead of a normal wolf priest, he's much better. But 16 blood claws or 15 blood claws + lukas are solid either. 14 blood claws + lukas + ulrik/priest is too expensive though, remember that also the flyer (or eventually the land raider crusader) is a huge point sink.
I don't really see Flyers/LRC as being point sinks. They ensure your blender unit gets where it is going safely. After that is can contribute significant firepower and will require focussed effort by your enemy to bring it down.
Overview/How I would use them: At first they seem underwhelming, but I think that has to more with their static build. I think they can fill a small niche as a long range fire support unit. The fact that they are troops make them easy to SPAM Light them. Take 2-3 Intercessor Squad to act as a buffer for your Long Fangs or Bjorn with the Las-Cannon/Plasma Cannon. Sitting them about 6”-12” from the edge of the deployment zone still lets them fire at most units for most of the game. They may not be spectacular especially with all the other more Flashy Units like Grey Hunters or Storm Bolter/Combi-Weapon Wolf Guard, but they look to be solid. We may have wait till the Marine book or Space Wolf book to get them some real options. I think if you keep them in cover they should be more durable depending on who your opponent thinks is the biggest threat. Odds are the Wolf Guard (Any Flavor) is going to be the focus for most of the game letting the Intercessor Squad be still there at the end of the game holding the Objective you put them on in the early part of the game.
Dakka Wolf wrote: They'd probably be more tempting for us if Terminators or Wulfen didn't fill their jobs much better.
I don't really see Termies or Wulfen overlapping with Intercessors as they Elites while Intercessors are Troops. Intercessors want to be hunkering down on an objective and whittling down the enemy at range while Termies and Wulfen both want to close with the enemy quickly to maximise the killing.
Now Hellblasters walking up the field with Bjorn is a combo I am looking forward to running.
Dakka Wolf wrote: They'd probably be more tempting for us if Terminators or Wulfen didn't fill their jobs much better.
I don't really see Termies or Wulfen overlapping with Intercessors as they Elites while Intercessors are Troops. Intercessors want to be hunkering down on an objective and whittling down the enemy at range while Termies and Wulfen both want to close with the enemy quickly to maximise the killing.
Now Hellblasters walking up the field with Bjorn is a combo I am looking forward to running.
It's not a case of what slot they fill, it's what they do. They don't do anything particularly special.
If you're making an extremely balanced list that's mostly troops they'd probably fit in well, me I'd rather spend my troops on Grey Hunters or even Bloodclaws and take dedicated units for bashing, sponging or shooting.
Land Speeders UNIT COMPOSITION: 1-3 Models
WARGEAR: Heavy Bolter (36” Heavy 2, S5, AP-1, Damage 1)
Options: Replace heavy Bolter with:
>Heavy Flamer (8” Heavy 1d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1)
>Multi-Melta (24”, Heavy 1, S8, AP-4, Damage 1d6, at 12” Roll 2d6 for damage, take the best.
The Land Speeder can take a: >Assault Cannon (24” Heavy 4, S6, AP-1, Damage 1)
>Heavy Flamer
>Heavy Bolter
>Multi-Melta
>Typhoon Launcher
>>Frag (48” Heavy 2d6, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>>Krak (48”, Heavy 2, S8, AP-2, Damage 1d6)
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Anti-Grav Upwash: If you have three Land Speeders your speed goes from 16” to 20”
>Explodes: ...
Overview/How I would use them: These are a great flanking unit. With their 16” or 20” Move you can get there where you need them most quickly. Not quite as good in the Anti-Transport role as they used to be without side or rear armor they still have a punch.
>Anti-Infantry: Twin-Heavy Flamers are probably the way to go. Don’t be afraid to get in close, something you need to do. With 2d6 Auto-Hits and Fly close combat should not be a problem to deter. Run Up, give 2d6 Attack worth of Flaming Death, Get Assaulted, 2d6 Fire on the Overwatch and then just run away. Unless they are set up to take you down they should only try to do this once or twice. As a Squadron of three that become 6d6 Fire.
>Anti-Tank/MC: Go with the Multi-Meltas and use the same tactic, Rush up, fire both the big guns and then move on to the next target, that should net you 1-3+ hits depending on the squadron size.
>Fire Brigade: This is how I use them, give each a Typhoon to go with the Heavy Bolter and just flit around in your backfield, this works best with a Full Squadron. With 36” Split Fire you can target just about everything. If I have a horde of bugs, feed them 9 Heavy Bolter Shots and 6d6 Frag Missiles. A Boyz mob backed up by a Killer Can, the Boyz get the Heavy Bolters and the Killer Can gets the Krak. Turn one you feed the Guard Blob the Heavy Bolters and Frag and then run across the board to deal with the Chimera filled with Vets before heading back on turn three to finish off the Blob.
>The Assault Cannon: I don’t know why, but to me it sort of...I don’t know, it just does not seem to fit with Land Speeders, especially now that rending is gone as we know it. It has the same range as the Multi-Melta, but not the Punch. It has three times the range of the Heavy Flamers, but if you are going with the Heavy Flamer you are going to use your speed to get in close anyways so you might be better off with the second flamer. With the Typhoon it has half the range and if you are going for ranged combat more than half the time out of Assault-Cannon Range.
>Multi-Melta/Typhoon: This is a range discrepancy mix I am ok with. You have the Multi-Melta that is going to be doing 1×1d6 Damage Shot...that will miss half the time, but you will also have 2×1d6 Damage shots, something is going to hit. If you find yourself being Assaulted by infantry you will have 2d6+1 Overwatch Attacks before you just flit away to a safer distance.
Cheaper weapons like Heavy bolter and Assault Cannon work out cheaper if the "Twin" variant (on platforms that can access it like the Razorback). This leaves the single version a little anaemic on things like the Landspeeder so I can see why MMs and the like are more appealing. Use your speed to get into Melta Range.
Karhedron wrote: Cheaper weapons like Heavy bolter and Assault Cannon work out cheaper if the "Twin" variant (on platforms that can access it like the Razorback). This leaves the single version a little anaemic on things like the Landspeeder so I can see why MMs and the like are more appealing. Use your speed to get into Melta Range.
The only issue I have with the Duel Multi-Melta is the 4+ to hit. You used to have a good chance to hit with both, now you have a good a chance at hitting with both as missing with both.
A Squadron could do a lot, but you are looking at an average of 3d6 damage...I just don't know about that combo yet.
Land Speeders were great in the Ironwolves detachment, Multi-melta and Typhoon Missile Launchers for free! I've been list punching and Land Speeders with Heavy Bolters make a good stop-gap for trying to nab the Brigade Detachment and still have good units, long ranged easily put into cover and highly mobile to get from cover to cover.
I would go with double flamers, that is very scary on the flanks especially with their great speed. You just have to either be careful with them or accept them as a sacrificial unit to slow down the enemy because of how close you need to be. The other options are really expensive (the double heavy flamers is still pretty expensive) for a unit that is pretty easy to kill. Easy to kill, but still very useful if used right.
biggie_reg wrote: I would go with double flamers, that is very scary on the flanks especially with their great speed. You just have to either be careful with them or accept them as a sacrificial unit to slow down the enemy because of how close you need to be. The other options are really expensive (the double heavy flamers is still pretty expensive) for a unit that is pretty easy to kill. Easy to kill, but still very useful if used right.
Yes they are fragile, but they are also usually a low priority target most of The time. Who would fire their big guns at the little speeders while the TWC is in their face. That is how mine usually survive till the end of the game as they snipe choice targets or now suddenly dump 6d6+9 shots on the infantry unit that got to close to your Long Fangs.
Karhedron wrote: Cheaper weapons like Heavy bolter and Assault Cannon work out cheaper if the "Twin" variant (on platforms that can access it like the Razorback). This leaves the single version a little anaemic on things like the Landspeeder so I can see why MMs and the like are more appealing. Use your speed to get into Melta Range.
I think you are also paying for the ability to split fire. Is it great? No...but it is a thing that is useful sometimes.
That being said I think double flamer is the main good landspeeder weapon option, but it is still very expensive, and if the enemy is scared of it, it will die. It is good at flaming and locking a unit in combat, though, so I think taking 1 is somewhat viable to just be annoying and go after enemy shooty infantry.
I wouldn't limit it to shootie infantry, bugs can still field enough fast models to tarpit regardless of abilities to withdraw, no reason not to trim them back a bit with some Heavy Flamers.
>War Howl: Friendly Space Wolves within 6” can Re-Roll failed Charges.
>Jarl of Fenris: 6” Re-Roll 1s to Hit
>Insane Bravado: 6” Heroic Intervention.
Overview/How I would use him: He is the only one who really got a personal Bodyguard with Fangy and Bites-A-Lot. However I can not find any rules that let you take them on a transport...I would love to find I am wrong. With Frostfang he can make short work of any 2+ saves and Mulit-Wound Models as with his 2+ to hit with Re-Rolls you can expect 6-10 Wounds on anything of T4 or Less. Great for killing off other Characters.
> Blood Claws: Ragnar makes a good leader for Blood Claws giving them the Re-Rolls to hit. With is Heroic Intervention he can also protect them from anything to big for them to handle. He also Fluff wise hangs around them. Him and 15 Blood Claws in a LRC or Stormwolf could prove to be nasty and gets them into Mêlée where you want him/them anyways.
>Grey Hunters: Of the three Infantry choices I put this one at the bottom, but not in a bad way, more like while Grey hunters can fill the role of Assault Troops they fit better in the fire support roll. Now saying that Him, a Wolf Guard Battle Leader in a Redeemer with a Grey Hunter Pack could be amazing. If you want to footslog him with some Grey Hunters that will work too.
>Wolf Guard. My second favorite choice. Put him with a Wolf Guard Battle Leader and 8 Powered Armored Wolf Guard in a Pod (Along with two other Pods full of Power Armored Wolf Guard) and/or Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor. With the Re-Roll on the Charge you have a good chance of someone making it. The same things works with a Rhino, but will not have the same impact.
>Storm Guard: I was taking Ragnar with Fangy and Bites-A-Lot and a 10 Model Power Armored Wolf Guard Pack with only the Wolf Guard Pack Leader having a Frost Axe and leaving the rest with just a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword. I had great success with this combination, it hit like a ton of bricks, especially with using the Skyshield Landing Pad to get the Stormwolf on to the table for turn 1. Now it looks like Fangy and Bites-A-Lot can’t come along for the ride, but this now leaves room for a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, a Rune Priest, Wolf Priest, some of them you could even put one or two in Terminator Armor.
Dakka Wolf wrote: I wouldn't limit it to shootie infantry, bugs can still field enough fast models to tarpit regardless of abilities to withdraw, no reason not to trim them back a bit with some Heavy Flamers.
Any Daemons got an immunity to flamer weapons?
Sure, I guess anything you want to tie up for a turn. I say shooty because most shooty units can't kill a landspeeder in one or 2 turns of melee, whereas more assault oriented units might be able to do so.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for Ragnar, I see his main benefit being the re-roll to charge. Otherwise you might as well take a normal Wolf Lord.
Thus it would make sense to take him in an army with either a lot of melee units, or a few units that you really want to make a charge roll like deep-strikers.
His wolves are relatively useless in my opinion, so i would either put him in a rhino with a mech assault list, or in a drop-pod with a number of other units also deep-striking in. Fliers seem okay, but i have a hard time seeming them last that long once they get close enough to unload and charge the next turn, and I don't think Ragnar is worth taking unless he is benefiting multiple units with his charge re-roll which can be tricky if he is far ahead of anyone.
After you've given them a round or two of Heavy Flamer a Gaunt unit has about the same punching power as your average Guard unit.
Admittedly any Nid player who tried their bugs in 7th is quite used to leaving units to their fate but that FLY keyword means if the bugs don't off the Speeder it's going to zip off and put the Flamers on something else.
jcd386 wrote: Fliers seem okay, but i have a hard time seeming them last that long once they get close enough to unload and charge the next turn.
Take a Rune Priest in TDA or with Jump Pack and have him Deep Strike just behind a couple of Fliers after they have moved, then cast "Storm Caller". Both fliers now have a 2+ save, that should keep them around a bit longer.
Skyshield Landing Pad UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: T8, W20, 4+
Options: None
Special Abilities: Landing Pad Configuration: If a model is within 1” and there are no enemies models within you can change its configuration at the Start of the Turn.
>Shielded: All Models on it have a 5++ save, this does not count the landing Pad.
>Unfurled: Any unit with the Battlefield Flier Role that spends a turn regains 1d3 Wounds.
>Immobile: Just as it says, once placed there it stays.
Overview/How I would use it: Towards the end of 6th I always took one of these. It proved to be to useful. (As a note I can not find the Keyword ‘Building’ so if this makes some of what I am writing about invalid, then it is...)
>Stormwolf/Stormfang: This is the perfect place to start the game on if you are going second. With the ‘Shields up it adds a 5++ to your save. You could go with the Long range weapons and never move if you want, but I would save this for the Stormfang.
>Land Speeders: I had great success with my Heavy Bolter/Typhoon Land Speeders parking on it after my Stormwolf left it. It will give you some height advantage and a 5++ Save.
>Long Fangs/Rifleman Dreads: Do you know how many Long Fangs you can fit on one of these, a lot...it gives you a 5++ save and height advantage. Put a Wolf Lord (I will probably be going with the Wolf Lord in Gravis Armor) and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader or Primaris Lieutenant (I would probably go with the Primaris Lieutenant myself) and you have a good fire-base to work with.
Note: This will probably be the only piece of Terrain I am going to talk about, but I thought I should get it out there as a lot of players are talking about how their fliers are getting shot off the table on turn one and this is how would deal with it.
Krom Dragongaze UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Wyrmclaw (Mêlée 5, S6, AP-2, Damage 1d3)
>Bolt Pistol (12” Pistol 1, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Frag and Krak Grenades
>Belt of Russ (3+/4++ Save)
Options: None
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Jarl of Fenris: 6” Re-Roll 1 Bubble
>The Fierce-Eye: 3” Enemy -1 Leadership Bubble
Overview/How I would use him: He looks to be a good Wolf Lord choice with his Fierce-Eye Special Ability you want him in Mêlée either at the front of an Assault or as a Counter Charge Unit. Though with the number of ways to make Moral a mute point. Where he does stand out is the chance to do 3 wounds per hit and mixed with his Jarl of Fenris he is not going to miss often.
>Blood Claws: He does not have the Wolf Guard Keyword so he can not keep their Headstrong under control.
>Grey Hunters: I think this would be a good choice for the more aggressive Grey Hunters, especially Flamer or Melta Hunters.
>Wolf Guard: Will make a great Bodyguard for Krom when tolled up for Assault either or as a Counter Charge Unit.
>Wulfen: They could mix well with him giving him a good distance on a charge or the Extra Attack.
>Wolf Guard Battle Leader or Primaris Lieutenant: Again someone you want near Krom and the other Units.
jcd386 wrote: Yeah Krom seems okay, but not good enough to really care that much about or cheap enough to take over a normal wolf lord imo.
24 points for an extra attack and the angry stare... (Going off a Cap' with a Relic blade as almost identical and bolt pistol).
I have his model primed and he may be a stand-in wolf lord for now.
Yes he is a little bland...maybe if they gave him Runic Armor (2+/4++) or a Mastercrafted Bolt Pistol...maybe team him up with Lukas for a -2 to leadership...maybe...
jcd386 wrote: Yeah Krom seems okay, but not good enough to really care that much about or cheap enough to take over a normal wolf lord imo.
24 points for an extra attack and the angry stare... (Going off a Cap' with a Relic blade as almost identical and bolt pistol).
I have his model primed and he may be a stand-in wolf lord for now.
Yes he is a little bland...maybe if they gave him Runic Armor (2+/4++) or a Mastercrafted Bolt Pistol...maybe team him up with Lukas for a -2 to leadership...maybe...
See, I'm comparing him to a > 80 point wolf lord with a power weapon and maybe a storm storm bolter that mostly exists to give things rerolls as I've tended to get my damage elsewhere. If you are going to take one loaded out then yeah Krom probably isn't bad.
Krom + Lukas + Wolf Scouts might do the trick.
Just need something to dish up enough damage to continually force the morale check.
I'm thinking a Razorback with Twin Assault Cannons - reminder to self, Twin does not mean two it means Twin - to transport Lukas and Krom about, nab Krom's re-roll 1s aura and dish up some good damage.
The Wolf Scouts might be able to pick off HQs that could change the result.
The thing about -1 ld is...it's not that great. It just means one more model dies of they fail a morale check, which is something half the armies rarely do. It's not bad, but idk if it's worth taking him over, say, ragnar or just a wolf lord.
Would you really take sniper wolf scouts? They seem pretty lackluster to me. I played a game recently where the other guy had 2 squads of scouts shooting at my rune priest for like two turns and did like 2 wounds to him. Relying on 6s for good damage hurts them a lot imo.
I want to try a list with 3 units of tooled out scouts coming in from behind enemy lines and see what that is like...but I'm afraid without a reroll to charge it won't be that reliable, but they are pretty cheap so that might still be okay? Idk we'll see how it goes i guess.
Harald Deathwolf UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Glacius (Mêlée 4, S6, AP-2, Damage 2, If you do not kill the model roll 1d6, on a 6 inflict 1 mortal wound)
>Bolt Pistol (12” Pistol 1, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Frag and Krak Grenades
>Crushing Teeth and Claws (Mêlée 3, S5, AP-1, Damage 1)
>Storm Shield (3+/3++ Save)
Options: None
Special Abilities: >ATSKNF
>Expert Hunter: Outflank 12” deep, 9” from an Enemy.
>Jarl of Fenris: 6” Re-Roll 1 Bubble
>Lord of the Wolfkin: Thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves within 6” use his Leadership 9.
>Mantle of the Troll King: 2+ Save vs Shooting.
Overview/How I would use him: I like him, he can be brutal in combat with a few 6s you could be doing 3-12 points a turn though most likely 8-9 before saves.
>Cyberwolves: Bodyguard unit that works even if you are tagging along with other units.
>Fenrisian Wolves: This can be a fun unit and with Lord of the Wolfkin most of their Leadership problems and with their re-roll on the charge they can take the Overwatch fire for him.
>Thunderwolf Cavalry: Now this is a good choice as a bodyguard, with being nearby and the Re-Rolls make them Brutal in Mêlée.
>Wulfen: Try to keep one of these nearby for the Re-Roll on the Charge or +1 to the Attack.
>Wolf Scouts: Oddly enough another good choice for Harald to team up with another Outflanker. Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun combination with the Jarl of Fenris.
Harold is a monster when combined with a Jumpin' WGBL.
Both pop up where something needs re-enforcing and you're piling re-roll ones to hit and re-rolls to wound.
Vindicator UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR: >Demolisher Cannon (24” Heavy 1d3, S10, AP—3, 1d6, If the target is 5+ Models becomes Heavy 1d6)
Options: >May take a Hunter Killer Missile.
>May take a Storm Bolter
Special Abilities:
>Smoke Launchers
>Explodes...
Overview/How I would use it: It is a close support weapon much like a Sturmpanzer (Brummbär). It looks like it would make a good Infantry support vehicle, though it could work in the Anti-Armor/MC hunter. Though I think it would work best is on Multi-Wound High Save units like like Terminators or Tyranid Warriors. Most will come in numbers greater than 4 so you should get the 1d6 most of the time.
>Bare Bones: Don’t bother with any upgrades. This a simple built, but not the best way to play them any more.
>With Everything: For 8 Points (This is the one of the few time I will be talking about points) more you can add the Hunter Killer Missile and Storm Bolter. One CP to the number of Shots taken could make all of the difference in the world vs Large Units when mixed with the Storm Bolter.
>Cavalry Support: It does suffer from a short range. With their 10” Move they keep up with Thunderbolt Cavalry giving your Opponent a choice between the Thunderwolves or the thing dumping 1-6 S10 Shots at them. Tossing in an Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf to heal damage. This could also work with a Rhino/Razorback Rush.
Overview/How I would use them: Well...they are essentially a bare bones 5 man Tactical squad with 2 Wounds and a better Gun. Put them on an objective on your side of the board or one nearby because they cant ride in any transport at this time. With their 15” Rapid Fire Range they can threaten units farther away with a good rate of fire. I think this will relegate them to Gunline Status for now or as a waking Firing Line. It looks like they would be good at both especially with the Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Battle Leader nearby. The once thing you do want to avoid with them is Mêlée...
Note: While think they are an ‘Ok’ unit for Space Wolves, I don’t believe they fit well with them, Now other Chapters I believe they fit very well, especially the Raven Guard.
Overview/How I would use them: Well...they are essentially a bare bones 5 man Tactical squad with 2 Wounds and a better Gun. Put them on an objective on your side of the board or one nearby because they cant ride in any transport at this time. With their 15” Rapid Fire Range they can threaten units farther away with a good rate of fire. I think this will relegate them to Gunline Status for now or as a waking Firing Line. It looks like they would be good at both especially with the Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Battle Leader nearby. The once thing you do want to avoid with them is Mêlée...
Note: While think they are an ‘Ok’ unit for Space Wolves, I don’t believe they fit well with them, Now other Chapters I believe they fit very well, especially the Raven Guard.
Would it be worth adjusting this now for the Codex rules since we know what they are?
Overview/How I would use them: Well...they are essentially a bare bones 5 man Tactical squad with 2 Wounds and a better Gun. Put them on an objective on your side of the board or one nearby because they cant ride in any transport at this time. With their 15” Rapid Fire Range they can threaten units farther away with a good rate of fire. I think this will relegate them to Gunline Status for now or as a waking Firing Line. It looks like they would be good at both especially with the Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Battle Leader nearby. The once thing you do want to avoid with them is Mêlée...
Note: While think they are an ‘Ok’ unit for Space Wolves, I don’t believe they fit well with them, Now other Chapters I believe they fit very well, especially the Raven Guard.
Would it be worth adjusting this now for the Codex rules since we know what they are?
All I have is the faq, but that another thing I will be doing, going back and making adjustments.
ZergSmasher wrote: You should post this stuff in an article if you aren't already. As an up-and-coming Space Wolves player I'm enjoying seeing your take on these units.
I would love to, but unless they made it simpler to use in the fast few years it is so much above my computer skills to do an article. I know just enough about computers to know I do not know what I am doing.
Anpu42 wrote: Sorry for the late reply, I was getting ready for a con, give me a few days and I will get back to posting.
Hello Anpu42,
I'm (kind of) new to Warhammer 40k and the space wolves and wanted to echo comments from other people here. I'm really enjoying this thread and the review of the space wolves units. Thanks for taking the time to do that. It's providing insightful and practical tips on top of the (somewhat dry) codex.
I’m trying to build an army from this post (which some readers might want to do too) and I wanted to ask a few questions:
Notes:
* I'm optimising this army to take on multiple threats as per JCD386 post)
* I started buying a getting started Space Wolves box * I’m saying "kind of new" because I started Warhammer 40k 16 years ago (I think it was the third edition back then) and bought a space wolves battle force and long fangs back then but didn’t finish these. They’re still at my parents overseas (and hopefully to be shipped home soon).
Here are my summarised notes & questions
* Grey hunters (great all rounder troops) * Boltguns and chain swords. Take wolf standard. 2x plasma for every 10 GH * WGPL (combo plasma + chainsword)
1) When would you hit diminishing returns with GH units? Eg would 3 x 10 GH units be optimal? Or 4*10 GH units starts to be too many?
2) Do you need to have a transport for all units?
3) Why do you NOT take a WGPL when mechanized? Is it worth to take one all the time?
* Thunderwolf cavalry * Most with SS and Chainswords
* Best synergy seems to be with Wolf priest on bike.
6) You get 3 in the getting started pack, is that enough to run or realistically you’d get more?
7) Would you run them with a Wolf lord on Thunderwolf over a Wolf priest on bike or would you get both <insert cheesy Old El Paso tacos meme>?
8) Any reason you run yours with SS + chainswords and 1 TH and 1 frost sword? Why not all with CS or all with TH? Is it because of points?
* Wolf lord * You get a pedestrian one in the getting started box vs. one on thunderwolf (which would be best seeing you get 3 TWC in the box...)
* Was thinking of going with a TH +SS (looks great too) but it seems like SS is not worth it as you get a 4+ invulnerable save. Then that frees up both his hands.
* Double claws seem to be the go then.
9) I was wondering why not get Canis Wolfborn then as they’re roughly the same cost once you’ve equipped your wolf lord on TW with double claws? You seem to say he’s inferior to the wolf lord? Is that because Jarl of Fenris >> to Born of Wolves & Champion of the Deathwolves?
* Switfclaws (bikes) * Chainswords and one plasma gun
* Wolf Priest get one on bike with a storm bolter
10) Is 3x bikes enough?
11) How would you decide if you need to add an attack bike and/or a WGBL? Any reason you equip your WGBL with a first sword vs the other options?
* Venerable dreadnought * It looks like they are a very targeted unit, e.g. you equip them depending on the threat you’re addressing and it probably would not make senses to have them be a mix of close combat and long range fire support
* Melee => fenrisian axe and shield or triple flamer (go well with TWC or GH))
* Long range fire support = 2x twin ACs or 2x twin las cannons or twin las cannon and twin AC (go well with long fangs)
12) How would you choose over Axe & board vs triple flamer? Is one dread enough?
13) Is the choice over twin las cannons vs twin AC for versatility on long range fire support based on whether you want to deal purely with heavy vehicles or heavy vehicles and infantry (as the twin AC will give you more shots but less powerful)? Is one dread enough?
14) Re Bjorn would it be fair that he’s probably best used in close combat? Eg what you describe as “brawler”?
* Long fangs * 4x Missile launchers +1 terminator with cyclone missile and storm bolter
15) Do you need a pack leader / sergeant?
16) Reading the codex it looks like the lascannons and missile launchers are fairly similar, is that correct or I am missing something? Why would you use one vs the other?
17) They strike me as the guys that sit back tight and rain missiles on the enemy. Do you need transport for them at all or not? If so, it seems like your recommendation is to get a Razorback w Twin Las-Cannon and a HK Missile to inflict 3d6 Damage each. The storm Bolter is not necessary, but take it just in case
18) Is one unit enough or would you get two?
* Stormwolf * consider this a flying land raider. It’s a super sick vehicle
* probably best to magnetise the weapons. Replace twin-heavy bolters with missile against flyers or with twin multi-meltas to go tank/monster hunting
Posting that now, I'm realizing it's a lot of questions :/ See that as being super eager
In a previous post you also mentioned you wanted to hear about which units we'd like to have reviewed in the future, If I may, would it be possible to get a review on:
* Predator and how/when to use it vs long fangs
* Rune priest.
For grey hunters, i think the best loadout is 5 + wolf guard, for 6 guys, with a plasma gun, combi plasma, and plasma pistol. And i would always start them in a rhino / razorback.
You can go up to 10 for the extra plasma and still fit in the rhino, but it's not as points efficent on a points per damage ratio. I did the math at one point but difnt save it lol.
Power weapons on them aren't great, but are okay if you have extra points. The standard seems pretty meh to me as well.
Once they get out of their box they are likely to die right away, so i don't see the point in putting more points into them than you have to.
I think you should take 3 units tops to fill out the detachment. And 2 units with a blood claw unit seems fine too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For long fangs, i think you should take 4 or 5 normal guys with missiles and leave out the terminator, as he costs too much per missile.
I also think 2x5 guys with 4 missiles/las with a rhino is worth considering. I've played games vs people with enough long range anti infantry shooting to kill 2 squads of long fangs in one turn, and i can tell you really sucks if they go first and you can't hide the long fans. The rhino can be useful later on so it's not much of a tax, and hitting on 4s is better than not shooting because you are dead.
Buying the 2 squads and the rhino is more expensive than 2 predators, but the rhino has to die completely in order to hurt the guys, whereas the predator would just be dead.
I see predators as basically more durable long fans. They can't reroll 1s to hit without a wolf lord, though, which is sad, so i think the long fangs are generally better.
Grey Hunters 1) When would you hit diminishing returns with GH units? Eg would 3 x 10 GH units be optimal? Or 4*10 GH units starts to be too many?
I don't think Diminishing Returns is an issue unless you take all of them loaded up with the same. 6x Plasma Hunters will do great vs most Armies, but not as well vs Tank/MC List and struggle with Hordes. When I field 6 Grey Hunters it is 2x Plasma-Hunters, 2x Melta-Hunters, 2x Flamer-Hunters. For the most part this would give me a mix that can deal with a lot of Armies. When I build a Troop Based List it is usually 2x Plasma Hunters and 2x Blood Claws with Flamers.
2) Do you need to have a transport for all units?
Not Really unless you are planing on being very Mobile, I would go with Rhinos/Drop Pods with Melta-Hunters and Flamer-Hunters.
3) Why do you NOT take a WGPL when mechanized? Is it worth to take one all the time?
I Always take a WGPL for the extra Combi-Weapon and to give you a Power Weapon.
Transports 4) Do you really need to run them in threes? Drop pods seem really expensive vs. rhinos
I found the more Drop Pods the better, three seems to be the sweet spot for me. On thing to remember is that one Drop Pod is just a pain for your opponent, the will be a problems. One Storm Bolter or Missile Launcher can almost be ignored, but not three. Multiple Drop Pods also have a physiological affect just by being there. They will have to be dealt with and take up resources to eliminate them.
5) Would you get one for each 10x GH unit? How do you decide to go with drop pods vs rhinos?
Depends on how I was going to play the game. A frontal Attack go with the Rhinos though for Hammer and Anvil Drop Pods and Thunderwolves.
Thunderwolf Cavalry
6) You get 3 in the getting started pack, is that enough to run or realistically you’d get more?
I would start with getting 4-6 of them, One for your Wolf Lord and/or Wolf Guard Battle Leader, one to make an Iron Priest and the rest for the Pack.
7) Would you run them with a Wolf lord on Thunderwolf over a Wolf priest on bike or would you get both?
Tough Choice, but I would go with the Wolf Lord (Re-Roll 1's to hit) and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader (Re-Roll wounds of 1) if I got two, the Wolf Priest would be good to heal wounds.
8) Any reason you run yours with SS + chainswords and 1 TH and 1 frost sword? Why not all with CS or all with TH? Is it because of points?
If you are concerned about points, yes a mix. I have my Pack Leader with a Frost Sword, 1 with the Thunder Hammer and the rest with Chain Sword (Well modeled with Lances), but I gave all of them Storm Shields. Remember Thunderwolves will attract Anti-Tank Weapons in their direction.
9) I was wondering why not get then as they’re roughly the same cost once you’ve equipped your wolf lord on TW with double claws? You seem to say he’s inferior to the wolf lord? Is that because Jarl of Fenris; to Born of Wolves & Champion of the Deathwolves?
Where his is inferior is he is not as durable as a Wolf Lord without the Belt of Russ or a Storm Shield. He is a good choice for Thunderwolves though with the Re-Rolls on charges and the additional Attacks.
Switfclaws (bikes): Chainswords and one plasma gun Wolf Priest get one on bike with a storm bolter
10) Is 3x bikes enough?
Not to me, but I tend to like larger units. If you are going to take them with a Wolf Priest the more models that can benefit from him the better.
11) How would you decide if you need to add an attack bike and/or a WGBL? Any reason you equip your WGBL with a first sword vs the other options?
I have mine with paired Wolf Claws though if you are going with the Plasma Gun why not take a Combi-Plasma and a Power Sword, take a Combi-Plasma for the Wolf Priest too.
Venerable dreadnought 12) How would you choose over Axe & board vs triple flamer? Is one dread enough?
The Axe and Board Dread should be taken as part of a group of Dreads or a Bodyguard for someone. Triple Flamers can be vicious, but as a lone Dread I think would struggle.
13) Is the choice over twin las cannons vs twin AC for versatility on long range fire support based on whether you want to deal purely with heavy vehicles or heavy vehicles and infantry (as the twin AC will give you more shots but less powerful)? Is one dread enough?
In this mode if you are going to hang back as fire support you only need 1. The True Rifleman Dread (Twin-Las-Cannon, Twin-Auto-Cannon) should do the job you need it to do. Though I think the x2 Twin-Auto-Cannon would be a good for Air-Defense just from the rate of fire.
14) Bjorn would it be fair that he’s probably best used in close combat? Eg what you describe as “brawler”?
Hard to say, where he becomes a great brawler is when you take him with a pair of Axe and Shield Dreads.
Long fangs * 4x Missile launchers +1 terminator with cyclone missile and storm bolter
15) Do you need a pack leader / sergeant?
Well you get the Long Fang Pack Leader by default. Either leave him as is or get him a Plasma Gun.
16) Reading the codex it looks like the lascannons and missile launchers are fairly similar, is that correct or I am missing something? Why would you use one vs the other?
Las Cannons do a little better vs Tanks and some MCs. Missile Launchers have flexibility, both are good. Cost I think is the deciding factor.
17) They strike me as the guys that sit back tight and rain missiles on the enemy. Do you need transport for them at all or not? If so, it seems like your recommendation is to get a Razorback w Twin Las-Cannon and a HK Missile to inflict 3d6 Damage each. The storm Bolter is not necessary, but take it just in case
That is what they do best, sit back and kill from afar. A Razorback with Las-Cannons makes a good support Vehicle. Oddly enough the only Transport I take for them is a Drop Pod with all Heavy Bolters and Combi-Plasmas.
18) Is one unit enough or would you get two?
I have found such, though when I have pulled out a second one is has only performed so-so.
Stormwolf A Stormwolf is always a good choice in my opinion.
Also it's worth mentioning that so much of what is good depends on what the rest of the army has.
If you drop 30 marines in someone's face, it's probably okay to have your long fangs outside of a transport, as their anti infantry firepower will likely be busy.
If you have an army with 6+ T7 vehicles and 15 long fangs on foot, then they are likely to die pretty quick.
It's also hard to say a unit is good or bad, as there is probably a good list that can use most units effectively. When i say a unit is good or bad, i mean it is good or bad in most lists. I consider drop pods to be generally terrible, but I'm sure you could male a good list built around them.
Redundancy and threat priority are important concepts your list needs. Some units are just much better at making them work than others.
My preference is to run marines all in transports with dreads and tanks, presenting the enemy with nothing but t7 to shoot at until i decide to discembark.
Others might prefer other list styles, and different units and loadouts may be better or more useful in those lists than they would be in mine.
jcd386 wrote: I see predators as basically more durable long fans. They can't reroll 1s to hit without a wolf lord, though, which is sad, so i think the long fangs are generally better.
Predators are not necessarily more durable than Long Fangs, it depends what is shooting at them. A single lascannon can only kill 1 Fang per turn but can wipe half the wounds off a Predator. Infantry are more durable than vehicles/monsters against multi-wound weapons since any excess wounds are wasted.
jcd386 wrote: I see predators as basically more durable long fans. They can't reroll 1s to hit without a wolf lord, though, which is sad, so i think the long fangs are generally better.
Predators are not necessarily more durable than Long Fangs, it depends what is shooting at them. A single lascannon can only kill 1 Fang per turn but can wipe half the wounds off a Predator. Infantry are more durable than vehicles/monsters against multi-wound weapons since any excess wounds are wasted.
Of course, and this is where redundancy comes into list building. A good list is going to have ways to handle light infantry, heavy infantry, and tanks, but only so much of each, so it can be a good idea to pick one of those three and spam it. A list with all t7 vehicles is going to mostly laugh at the anti infantry guns the enemy has. Likewise an army of all 1 wound infantry don't really care how many Las cannons you have.
Additionally, it's better to take 2-3 of a unit or similar units, as it is much easier to kill 1 predator and 1 unit of long fangs than it is 2 of either.
This is why i like taking rhinos for my long fangs in mech lists, because every las cannon they shoot at it is one less they shot at my dreads, bloodclaw rhinos, razor backs, etc.
In a list with 50 blood claws, wulfen, and TWC running up the table i would not bit them a rhino, or use a predator, as it would then become the obvious target for anti tank fire.
The more hard choices you make for your enemy, and the more of their firepower you make them shoot at inefficient targets (heavy bolters at rhinos, las cannons at blood claws, etc) the better chance you have of wining.
Reivers yeah or neigh!! seems most likely in a space wolves list as harassers but wolf scouts almost do it better for cheaper depending on loadout!!!
Redemptor? anti horde/flyer and bullet magnet?
Repulsor? great anti horde/flyer imo, maybe for Aggressors only really as a transport.
Aggressors? seems severly limited in space wolf list!
Im thinking of buying the death watch battleforce as a good way to grab some nice mini's to add to my space wolves and im starting to think that primaris look alot better in a death watch list than wolves!
Might paint the death watch as space wolves with silver arms to signify there xenos slaying call up.
I don't really see any of the primaris really being all that worthwhile for SW at this time. Depending on what chapter tactic(s) they get in their codex, they might become more useful in the future. The same goes for deathwatch.
The intercessors get stalker pattern bolters now right so they can fire deathwatch munitions. Somewhat of a shame the primaris dont fit with wolves and may never!
I have been having great results with my Hellblasters. I walk them up the field with Bjorn and he takes care of the rerolls. The firepower they put out is fantastic and they sit comfortably between GKs and LFs.
). To make it work with 8th I had to make a few changes.
