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Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/08 05:00:53


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


So I see a thread about first impressions of our units and some other threads about how we, the wolfy viking people are, feel about our new data sheets. However I do not see a tactics thread! So I thought I would get it started. Let's hear your ideas my wolf kin!

Currently I'm trying to figure out how to fit the stuff I like into my list and how to play them. I have Bjorn and 2 more CC venerable dreads that seem too much fun to pass up.

I am also thinking of making multiple units of Skyclaws that will come in with podded grey hunters, with TWC and others bringing up the rear. I like the idea of a rushing, in your face space wolf list.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/08 23:15:51


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


So I've finally really being digging into the rules I was able to find for our wolves. I'm not sure I've seen it discussed before but it appears with the new wording that our TWC and other can take upgraded versions of our powered frost weapons. Unless I am mistaken? So Instead of a Frost Axe, they could take the Great Frost Axe it appears. That would only be an extra 7 points. Sure it would be pricey but it might be worth it.

Anyone else find anything new and interesting with kitting out our Wolves? I don't remember that being an option in the old codex. Though I could be wrong! I was somewhat new to the Wolves.

*edit - Nevermind, I looked at the front of the SW entry and see the list divided up properly. Oh well!



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 01:00:53


Post by: Aetare


I'm gonna be running my PA as a gun line and kind of just holding down the middle of the board from cover while my Thumderwolves maraud around.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 01:48:15


Post by: Requizen


Been eyeing these guys up for a slow-grow league. How are they looking in 8th?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 02:17:54


Post by: jcd386


I think SW will be pretty good this edition.

They have a lot of good CC units, and CC is quite viable this edition so that works in their favor. Their HQ auras are quite good, so i think it will be common to see 4 or so HQ units in the army.

Now that grav is rebalanced they don't hurt so much by not having it, and their long fangs get free 1s rerolls to hit which is cool.

I expect see a lot of TWC, wulfen, blood claws, and long fangs, and everything else is solid because they are marines. Which is pretty much exactly how i think SW should play, so im pretty happy.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 17:03:53


Post by: Ragnar69


I have made a 2000 points list (batailion):

the Hammer (to get into the enemy deployment zone):
Wolf priest on bike with plasma pistol, warlord (+1LD)
8 Fenrisian Wolves)
5 Wulfen (2xclaws, 2x hammers,axe)
3 TWC (2 shields, hammer, claw, chainsword)
5 Scouts (melter, plasma pistol) +WG PL (frost sword, combi-plasma)

the Blade (to secure the mid-field):
ven. dread (assault cannon, great wolf claw, hv. flamer)
rune priest (runic armor, stormbolter, rune axe)
9 GH (2 melter, power axe) + WG PL (sormbolter, frost sword)
9 GH (2 plasma, power axe) + WG PL (sormbolter, frost sword)

the Arrow (camp backfield objectives):
Whirlwind (castellan)
5 Long Fangs (4 missile launcher)

the Spear (to plug holes or attack targets of opportunity):
Land speeder (2x hv bolter)
Razorback(twin assault cannon, storm bolter)
5 GH (1 plasma, power axe) + WG PL (sormbolter, frost sword)


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 20:16:36


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Ragnar69 wrote:
I have made a 2000 points list (batailion):

the Hammer (to get into the enemy deployment zone):
Wolf priest on bike with plasma pistol, warlord (+1LD)
8 Fenrisian Wolves)
5 Wulfen (2xclaws, 2x hammers,axe)
3 TWC (2 shields, hammer, claw, chainsword)
5 Scouts (melter, plasma pistol) +WG PL (frost sword, combi-plasma)

the Blade (to secure the mid-field):
ven. dread (assault cannon, great wolf claw, hv. flamer)
rune priest (runic armor, stormbolter, rune axe)
9 GH (2 melter, power axe) + WG PL (sormbolter, frost sword)
9 GH (2 plasma, power axe) + WG PL (sormbolter, frost sword)

the Arrow (camp backfield objectives):
Whirlwind (castellan)
5 Long Fangs (4 missile launcher)

the Spear (to plug holes or attack targets of opportunity):
Land speeder (2x hv bolter)
Razorback(twin assault cannon, storm bolter)
5 GH (1 plasma, power axe) + WG PL (sormbolter, frost sword)


I am just a little confused, are these all separate detachments or part of the battalion detachment? Or whatever it's called haha. I think it's awesome as you can see below that we're coming up with really different lists/ideas!



I made a 2k point list as well, anticipating that will be the new point limit. I put it in the army list section but I think it's decent for tactics discussions too so I'll copy/pasta it.

So this is my first attempt to make a list with points in 8th edition. My main goal here is to have a force that will rush the enemy as fast as possible with heavy hitters while infantry trudge forward and secure the rear. I thought about cutting the Grey Hunter squads down in size to fit in a named character possibly but I thought massed bolter fire might not be a bad thing. The infantry will move in a line formation up the middle with the two dreadnoughts, iron priests following behind, leading the charge. The TWC will each take a flank and charge up that way. Wulfen will follow the TWC but be a little more inside the playing area.

That's the initial plan anyway, depending on my opponents deployment of course! So here is the list.

First List Attempt - Total: 1994

HQ -
Iron Priests -
servo-arm
thunderhammer
bolt gun

Iron Priests -
servo-arm
thunderhammer
bolt gun

Troops -
Grey Hunters - x10
Grey Hunters - x10
Grey Hunters - x10

Elites -
Ven Dreadnaught -
Axe -
Shield -
Ven Dreadnaught -
Axe -
Shield -
Wulfen -
TH/SS - 2x
GFA - 2x
Frost Claws - 1x
Wulfen -
TH/SS - 2x
GFA - 2x
Frost Claws - 1x

Fast Attack -
Thunderwolf Cav x4
Stormshields - x4 -
Thunderhammer - x1
Frost Sword - x3 - 21
Thunderwolf Cav x4
Stormshields - x4
Thunderhammer - x1
Frost Sword - x3


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 20:22:58


Post by: andysonic1


OwO what's this?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 20:55:37


Post by: Ragnar69


 andysonic1 wrote:
OwO what's this?


I think thats supposed to be a wolf's howl


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 21:23:56


Post by: Aetare


Ragnar69 wrote:
 andysonic1 wrote:
OwO what's this?


I think thats supposed to be a wolf's howl


I prefer to have my wolves release a blood-curdling 'bork' or two in the face of the enemy, but to each his own.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 21:35:51


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


To avoid that question I googled how to type out a wolf howl. It was actually mildly contentious.. lol. It came up anyway!


 Aetare wrote:
Ragnar69 wrote:
 andysonic1 wrote:
OwO what's this?


I think thats supposed to be a wolf's howl


I prefer to have my wolves release a blood-curdling 'bork' or two in the face of the enemy, but to each his own.


Hah! When I charge with my TWC or Wulfen I'm known in my group for howling so partially why I put it in. I have no idea what a "bork" is?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 21:53:58


Post by: Aetare


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
To avoid that question I googled how to type out a wolf howl. It was actually mildly contentious.. lol. It came up anyway!


 Aetare wrote:
Ragnar69 wrote:
 andysonic1 wrote:
OwO what's this?


I think thats supposed to be a wolf's howl


I prefer to have my wolves release a blood-curdling 'bork' or two in the face of the enemy, but to each his own.


Hah! When I charge with my TWC or Wulfen I'm known in my group for howling so partially why I put it in. I have no idea what a "bork" is?


Think the cancerous plague that is internet meme culture. The things I would do to this forum if I was a man of weaker spirit. So much doge....


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 22:03:28


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Just imagining that has frightened me greatly!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 22:09:52


Post by: Aetare


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Just imagining that has frightened me greatly!


Apologies friend. I'll get back to the topic at hand: I'm really interested in seeing how our wolves play out in close combat. I already know I'll be running my thunder-wolves, but has anyone really looked into Wulfen and can tell me the pros and cons of taking them? I love the fluff they add to the army and am really considering investing in some if they have any value on the tabletop.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 23:10:42


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Aetare wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Just imagining that has frightened me greatly!


Apologies friend. I'll get back to the topic at hand: I'm really interested in seeing how our wolves play out in close combat. I already know I'll be running my thunder-wolves, but has anyone really looked into Wulfen and can tell me the pros and cons of taking them? I love the fluff they add to the army and am really considering investing in some if they have any value on the tabletop.


No need to apologize! Was just playing along, it's was a hilarious imagery you painted.

Onto business though... Last edition they were awesome and from what I can see, my two squads of 5 will be seeing action again in this addition. They took the best rules from the hunt/kill table and just made them aura(buff) rules to units instead of a table to roll on. Plenty of abilities and access to bad ass weaponry, they're quick and even when they die they still strike back even if they've already hit! And they can move+advance+charge.

The main issue is that they are very expensive now, whereas in 7th they were undercosted. The squads in the list I posted above is something like 240-280 points for each squad.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/09 23:21:43


Post by: Aetare


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Just imagining that has frightened me greatly!


Apologies friend. I'll get back to the topic at hand: I'm really interested in seeing how our wolves play out in close combat. I already know I'll be running my thunder-wolves, but has anyone really looked into Wulfen and can tell me the pros and cons of taking them? I love the fluff they add to the army and am really considering investing in some if they have any value on the tabletop.


No need to apologize! Was just playing along, it's was a hilarious imagery you painted.

Onto business though... Last edition they were awesome and from what I can see, my two squads of 5 will be seeing action again in this addition. They took the best rules from the hunt/kill table and just made them aura(buff) rules to units instead of a table to roll on. Plenty of abilities and access to bad ass weaponry, they're quick and even when they die they still strike back even if they've already hit! And they can move+advance+charge.

The main issue is that they are very expensive now, whereas in 7th they were undercosted. The squads in the list I posted above is something like 240-280 points for each squad.


Thanks for the analysis! I'll do some more research and try to determine how they would fit into my current collection.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/11 05:10:45


Post by: jcd386


Wulfen seem as solid as they were in 7th. The re-rolls to charge from (hunt) are obviously great, and any units that don't need the re-roll can then use the (kill) attack boost.

The fact that the range is boosted to 12" for blood claws is cool as well, and makes large numbers of blood claws as the backbone to a list more appealing and quite scary.

I think the key to them will be going somewhat easy on the upgrades and relying on them more to buff the army around them than to kill everything by themselves.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 07:01:01


Post by: lonewolf81


my 2 cents about the wolves:

1.wolf scouts are great , you can give them 2xplasma pistols, 1xplasma gun and a WG pack leader with combi plasma + frost sword and "deep strike" them for 108 points (which is very cheap for that many shots and a potential charge)

2. Arjack is maybe the best HQ choice for his points cause he gives 2 buffs intead of one (reroll ones to wound for all spacewolves and +1 attack to wolfguard which affects also thunderwolves) and he is very killy in melee, durable and can deep strike.

3. long fangs are great cause they dont need a character for rerolls

4. Thunderwolves next to a lord on wolf and arjack are super killy each chainsword guy gets 4 regular + 3 mount attacks and the leader with a hammer gets 4 attacks + 3 mount attacks all with reroll 1s to hit and wound.

5. wulfen are great also and their buff is even better now.


In my list i drop 5 termies (mixed combis and th/ss) with arjack and i advance up the board 5 thunderwolves (all shields ,1 hammer on the leader) with a wolf lord . Also i use scouts to harass one flank. Long fangs provide long range fire support. Pretty killy stuff

all in all, i really like the new edition


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 07:49:41


Post by: Ragnar69


I think Wulfen with mostly TH/SS are our best bet to kill large models like Wraithknights/IK and other scary melee units. But it's important that we get the charge, so a screen of Fenrisian Wolves helps greatly. Add in a Wolf Priest on Bike to migitate the 4+ to hit for hammers and to keep the wolves from running.

You could also keep a unit of TWC and/or Skyclaws nearby to profit from the buffs.

The named characters are pretty good to. No reason not to take Arjac, Njal or Grimnar over regular HQs if you want a similiar loadout.

A WG PL in TDA (maybe with SS) is a great tank for your Long Fangs


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 08:58:28


Post by: kodos


Too many possibility's now for making a list
my 5th Edi list with 2 units of Swiftclaws, Priests on Bikes and two full melee scouts squads is viable again, the same as the storm of chaos wulfen+blood claw spam.

I really like the new Plasma Scouts, I would prefer a melee squad but with 9" this is too risky while it is perfectly fine for rapid fire weapons

my only real problem is, I have a full Squad of Skyclaws with 2 Bolt Pistols, don't know what to do with them know

from all the stuff I have, I would like to use 2 units of Blood Claws, 2 units of Scouts, 2 units Swiftclaws or WG on Bike, 2 units of Wulfen, 2 units of Long Fangs, 2 of each Priest, 2-4 Dreads, TWC and 2 Lords on Wolf.
And get everything in 1850 points.....


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 09:18:45


Post by: Blackie


Are drop pods gone with the new edition's style? I haven't seen a single one in several 2000 points SW lists.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 09:44:31


Post by: lonewolf81


yes they are definately gone due to their cost , 105 points for a "deep strike" vessel is too much and they dont even carry dreads any more. They should definately recost them or they ll stay in "the way of the dodo" zone


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 10:35:28


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I have actually been planning on trying to use them. It's just not in a list I've currently made.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 10:48:04


Post by: Nidzrule!


Maybe I missed it - how do our venerable dreadnoughts get Storm Shields under 8th edition?

I thought we had to pull our ven dreads from the space marine list?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 10:52:18


Post by: kodos


 Blackie wrote:
Are drop pods gone with the new edition's style? I haven't seen a single one in several 2000 points SW lists.


Question is what do you want to use the Pod for?
the only good reason is a Dread, which is not possible (maybe with FW) or Long Fangs

Nidzrule! wrote:

I thought we had to pull our ven dreads from the space marine list?


and the first page list the options a standard dread has if used in a SW list


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 11:42:02


Post by: Ragnar69


 Blackie wrote:
Are drop pods gone with the new edition's style? I haven't seen a single one in several 2000 points SW lists.


For the cost of the pod + unit inside you could as well get a unit of terminators that probably do the intended job better and are more survivable.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 11:53:15


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Drop Pods lost the only reason I cared to use them.
No Dread transportation no real reason to use them.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 14:05:04


Post by: Weazel


I would probably just take a Rhino over a Drop Pod now. Pods are too expensive to sacrifice one for a suicide squad and I don't think Wolves bring enough dakka or survivability to really drop into other armies face with impunity. Also no Dreads in Pods any more, sad face. :(

Maybe now that you can actually take ablative wounds on Long Fangs and moving doesn't cause snap shots anymore, a unit of 4-5 multimeltas and fiveish bolter guys might make for a feasible threat against vehicles or monsters. Make it two of those packs and screen them with teleporting terminators and you might actually cause a proper hassle.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 18:53:23


Post by: Lupus Mortem


I'm new to 40k, starting out with 8E and will be playing Space Wolves. I've already started my buying spree and work began on some Grey Hunters yesterday.

This thread has been informative and I'm glad you guys took up the topic. I've been reading SW internet posts for a while and buying drop pods was almost a knee-jerk reaction. I did not buy any because I read about the increased point cost. With 8th edition which transports will be crucial to SW and which units should have them? I almost bought Razorbacks because they look so cool but held off until I knew more.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 19:07:26


Post by: Anpu42


Lupus Mortem wrote:
I'm new to 40k, starting out with 8E and will be playing Space Wolves. I've already started my buying spree and work began on some Grey Hunters yesterday.

This thread has been informative and I'm glad you guys took up the topic. I've been reading SW internet posts for a while and buying drop pods was almost a knee-jerk reaction. I did not buy any because I read about the increased point cost. With 8th edition which transports will be crucial to SW and which units should have them? I almost bought Razorbacks because they look so cool but held off until I knew more.

Don't know about drop pods, have not gone over them.

On Razorbacks, Rhino's are the backbone of any Mechanized Space Wolf List, just get the Razorback and do not glue down the Turrets, instant Rhino.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 19:29:36


Post by: kodos


First of all, if you are new to the Wolves, get yourself the old Codex books to read thru the background to get a feeling for the army.
they are sold of cheap now and 5th edition codex or the "Wulfen Edition" would be best option.

for transport, Rhinos will be the most used variant in a armoured company
and because the Razorback kit has just 2 weapon options I would buy Rhinos and 3rd party turrets (were you can also easier swap weapons)


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/12 20:54:20


Post by: Lupus Mortem


 Anpu42 wrote:


On Razorbacks, Rhino's are the backbone of any Mechanized Space Wolf List, just get the Razorback and do not glue down the Turrets, instant Rhino.


Two models in one. hmmm...


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/13 01:36:51


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Can't wait to see what happens with the Lucius Pod.
Apparently Forge World has released a new index.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/13 08:02:23


Post by: Ragnar69


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Can't wait to see what happens with the Lucius Pod.
Apparently Forge World has released a new index.


They don't sell it anymore, so there might not be any rules for it...


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/13 09:53:47


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Ragnar69 wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Can't wait to see what happens with the Lucius Pod.
Apparently Forge World has released a new index.


They don't sell it anymore, so there might not be any rules for it...


Aren't you the same sod who told me the new Primaris Space Wolves are called the "Wolf Spear"?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/13 10:52:06


Post by: Ragnar69


No, I'm not. But I think thats the name of the new Primaris SW successor chapter from that new Dark Imperium novel.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/13 23:05:46


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Lucky, I was about to accuse you of being a bearer of bad news.
I hope you're wrong but the way things are panning out it doesn't seem likely.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 01:18:00


Post by: crouching lictor


Here's a list of been tinkering with. It hits pretty hard in melee.

Outrider Detachment (+1CP)
Arjac
Wolf Priest with Jump Pack, plasma pistol

4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
5 Wulfen, 2TH/SS, 1 frost claws, 1 great frost axe
5 Wolf Guard, jump packs, 5 SS, 5 combiplasma, 1 frost axe, 4 chainswords
3 Swiftclaws +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
3 Swiftclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
8 Skyclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH, combiplasma
15 Fenrisian Wolves​



1990


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 01:49:31


Post by: lessthanjeff


Figured I'd ask you guys in case you've noticed something I haven't and it's driving me crazy.

Power level for Wolf Scouts vs generic Space Marine Scouts seems way off. Our wolf scouts have more gear options, the same stat line, and cost 2 less power points. I feel like I have to be missing something simple but I can't figure out what it is.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 02:03:10


Post by: Aetare


That list looks very fast and very choppy.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 04:27:03


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


crouching lictor wrote:
Here's a list of been tinkering with. It hits pretty hard in melee.

Outrider Detachment (+1CP)
Arjac
Wolf Priest with Jump Pack, plasma pistol

4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
5 Wulfen, 2TH/SS, 1 frost claws, 1 great frost axe
5 Wolf Guard, jump packs, 5 SS, 5 combiplasma, 1 frost axe, 4 chainswords
3 Swiftclaws +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
3 Swiftclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
8 Skyclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH, combiplasma
15 Fenrisian Wolves​



1990


Besides being personally not a fan of fen wolves and bikes, that's a pretty choppy list! You could potentially get beat up for your lower model count but... looks good to me! I think it's awesome that so far all our lists have been really different!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 08:59:55


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 lessthanjeff wrote:
Figured I'd ask you guys in case you've noticed something I haven't and it's driving me crazy.

Power level for Wolf Scouts vs generic Space Marine Scouts seems way off. Our wolf scouts have more gear options, the same stat line, and cost 2 less power points. I feel like I have to be missing something simple but I can't figure out what it is.


Behind Enemy Lines.
Vanilla Scouts can Combat Squad and Scout deep into no-man's land on the first turn.
Wolf Scouts arrive from any board edge their controlling player chooses at any point in the game their controlling player chooses to bring them in.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 12:34:19


Post by: lessthanjeff


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 lessthanjeff wrote:
Figured I'd ask you guys in case you've noticed something I haven't and it's driving me crazy.

Power level for Wolf Scouts vs generic Space Marine Scouts seems way off. Our wolf scouts have more gear options, the same stat line, and cost 2 less power points. I feel like I have to be missing something simple but I can't figure out what it is.


Behind Enemy Lines.
Vanilla Scouts can Combat Squad and Scout deep into no-man's land on the first turn.
Wolf Scouts arrive from any board edge their controlling player chooses at any point in the game their controlling player chooses to bring them in.



Ah, I did miss the concealed position difference. Thanks. Something just seems off to me about space marine scouts costing more than regular tacticals, other scout variants, or even specialist units like assault squads, but maybe that's all it is.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 16:53:12


Post by: D6Damager


Bjorn gets work done. An excellent Warlord in 1,000 point games.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 21:48:01


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Bjorn and Murderfang make a fun tag-team.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/14 22:23:21


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I'm just too big a fan of the shield and axe on a venerable to use murderfang. Bjorn I definitely want to try out, he looks like a beast!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 00:50:21


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Murderfang lost a lot of his fire when they canned the Dread in a Pod delivery system.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 01:14:02


Post by: crouching lictor


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
crouching lictor wrote:
Here's a list of been tinkering with. It hits pretty hard in melee.

Outrider Detachment (+1CP)
Arjac
Wolf Priest with Jump Pack, plasma pistol

4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
5 Wulfen, 2TH/SS, 1 frost claws, 1 great frost axe
5 Wolf Guard, jump packs, 5 SS, 5 combiplasma, 1 frost axe, 4 chainswords
3 Swiftclaws +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
3 Swiftclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
8 Skyclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH, combiplasma
15 Fenrisian Wolves​



1990


Besides being personally not a fan of fen wolves and bikes, that's a pretty choppy list! You could potentially get beat up for your lower model count but... looks good to me! I think it's awesome that so far all our lists have been really different!

Yeah, I agree with you about the fen wolves. I think they're too fragile and will give the enemy an easy first blood/kill point. I included them for use as a screening force to protect against T1 charges or to help lock enemy units in close combat. I might have to rethink that. I envision the Swiftclaws being used to kill enemy troop units who are camping objectives or to use their speed to score far objectives since my assault force is likely to be in contact early on. The list as is lacks any sort of supporting fire which is a concern. Dropping the Swiftclaws and fen wolves would free up 515 points which could be used on a couple of small GH/BC packs in Razorbacks. I'll have to play around with it a bit.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 05:45:57


Post by: Dakka Wolf


crouching lictor wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
crouching lictor wrote:
Here's a list of been tinkering with. It hits pretty hard in melee.

Outrider Detachment (+1CP)
Arjac
Wolf Priest with Jump Pack, plasma pistol

4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
4 TWC, 4SS, 1 TH, 1 frost sword
5 Wulfen, 2TH/SS, 1 frost claws, 1 great frost axe
5 Wolf Guard, jump packs, 5 SS, 5 combiplasma, 1 frost axe, 4 chainswords
3 Swiftclaws +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
3 Swiftclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH
8 Skyclaws, +PL, power axe, +WG, TH, combiplasma
15 Fenrisian Wolves​



1990


Besides being personally not a fan of fen wolves and bikes, that's a pretty choppy list! You could potentially get beat up for your lower model count but... looks good to me! I think it's awesome that so far all our lists have been really different!

Yeah, I agree with you about the fen wolves. I think they're too fragile and will give the enemy an easy first blood/kill point. I included them for use as a screening force to protect against T1 charges or to help lock enemy units in close combat. I might have to rethink that. I envision the Swiftclaws being used to kill enemy troop units who are camping objectives or to use their speed to score far objectives since my assault force is likely to be in contact early on. The list as is lacks any sort of supporting fire which is a concern. Dropping the Swiftclaws and fen wolves would free up 515 points which could be used on a couple of small GH/BC packs in Razorbacks. I'll have to play around with it a bit.


I'd have to double check the Wulfen Hunt curse but if it adds the extra inches into charging I'd trade the 515 points for Skyclaws, Wulfen and a Drop Pod.
Headstrong? Who gives a damn, you'll be charging the nearest enemy unit anyway.
Low BS? Your opponent is going to take anything you kill off the front lines so you have to charge further anyway.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 06:22:00


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I'd have to double check the Wulfen Hunt curse but if it adds the extra inches into charging I'd trade the 515 points for Skyclaws, Wulfen and a Drop Pod.
Headstrong? Who gives a damn, you'll be charging the nearest enemy unit anyway.
Low BS? Your opponent is going to take anything you kill off the front lines so you have to charge further anyway.


The sheet I have says the Hunt table lets you re-roll the charge, not add inches. Which is EXTRA good when you add in the idea of CP allowing you to reroll any dice for a phase or whatever. However it's a 6" range unless you're Blood Claws, which are 12". Sadly it seems Skyclaws no longer have the 12" benefit.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 06:32:31


Post by: Aetare


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I'd have to double check the Wulfen Hunt curse but if it adds the extra inches into charging I'd trade the 515 points for Skyclaws, Wulfen and a Drop Pod.
Headstrong? Who gives a damn, you'll be charging the nearest enemy unit anyway.
Low BS? Your opponent is going to take anything you kill off the front lines so you have to charge further anyway.


The sheet I have says the Hunt table lets you re-roll the charge, not add inches. Which is EXTRA good when you add in the idea of CP allowing you to reroll any dice for a phase or whatever. However it's a 6" range unless you're Blood Claws, which are 12". Sadly it seems Skyclaws no longer have the 12" benefit.


It seems odd they would not include other variations of 'young' Space wolves like the Skyclaws or Swiftclaws....


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 06:52:30


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Aetare wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I'd have to double check the Wulfen Hunt curse but if it adds the extra inches into charging I'd trade the 515 points for Skyclaws, Wulfen and a Drop Pod.
Headstrong? Who gives a damn, you'll be charging the nearest enemy unit anyway.
Low BS? Your opponent is going to take anything you kill off the front lines so you have to charge further anyway.


The sheet I have says the Hunt table lets you re-roll the charge, not add inches. Which is EXTRA good when you add in the idea of CP allowing you to reroll any dice for a phase or whatever. However it's a 6" range unless you're Blood Claws, which are 12". Sadly it seems Skyclaws no longer have the 12" benefit.


It seems odd they would not include other variations of 'young' Space wolves like the Skyclaws or Swiftclaws....


I believe this is because of the Skyclaws being able to deep strike now so accurately. So just a little balancing tweak.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 06:58:46


Post by: AesSedai


Trying to get a handle on how to run my wolves in 8th. Slowly familiarizing myself with the various indices for the armies i have. This thread has already given me some good guidence. I think our auras are going to be critical. I made my first SW list, thoughts appreciated.

HQ:

Wolf Priest w/ Jump Pack @ 112

Wolf Priest w/ Jump Pack @ 112

Elite:

Lucas the Trickster @ 118

5x Wulfen w/ 2x TH/SS @ 235

Troops:

14 Blood Claws @ 238
Blood Claw pack leader w/ Power Fist
Wolf Guard pack leader w/ Power Fist

15 Blood Claws @ 251
Blood Claw pack leader w/ Power Fist
Wolf Guard pack leader w/ Power Fist

Fast Attack:

4x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ 4x Storm Shield, 3x Wolf Claw @ 267

Flyers:

Stormwolf @ 279

Stormwolf @ 279

Transport:

Drop Pod w/ deathwind launcher @ 107

Total: 1999


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 07:27:54


Post by: Aetare


Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 07:41:51


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Aetare wrote:
Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...


Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.

 AesSedai wrote:
Trying to get a handle on how to run my wolves in 8th. Slowly familiarizing myself with the various indices for the armies i have. This thread has already given me some good guidence. I think our auras are going to be critical. I made my first SW list, thoughts appreciated.

HQ:

Wolf Priest w/ Jump Pack @ 112

Wolf Priest w/ Jump Pack @ 112

Elite:

Lucas the Trickster @ 118

5x Wulfen w/ 2x TH/SS @ 235

Troops:

14 Blood Claws @ 238
Blood Claw pack leader w/ Power Fist
Wolf Guard pack leader w/ Power Fist

15 Blood Claws @ 251
Blood Claw pack leader w/ Power Fist
Wolf Guard pack leader w/ Power Fist

Fast Attack:

4x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ 4x Storm Shield, 3x Wolf Claw @ 267

Flyers:

Stormwolf @ 279

Stormwolf @ 279

Transport:

Drop Pod w/ deathwind launcher @ 107

Total: 1999


Another completely different list. again I'm liking the variety and I like your list! I'm not sure what your drop pod is for though, as Wulfen cannot take them sadly. They can only be transported in Land Raiders from what I've seen. What detachment are you using as well? I think you may be a little sparse on the ground but with the range of flyers now you should get a second turn charge fairly easily. However without the drop pod your Wulfen will lag behind severely.. though with the 12" buff range maybe that won't matter as much. Also I don't think power fists are worth taking on your guys unless they're a character. For non character models the power fist costs the same as a Thunderhammer but the Thunderhammer has 3 damage instead of D3 damage. I'll take the assured 3 damage over D3 anytime, especially since it's the same points cost.

I do like your list though! looks fun!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 07:48:09


Post by: Weazel


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...


Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.


The notation is a bit odd. Land Raider is specifically mentioned to be able to carry Wulfen, however nowhere else can I see a restriction for Wulfen and what transport they can occupy. Drop Pods allow Infantry and Wulfen are infantry... The restriction is pretty implicit if you ask me.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 07:50:29


Post by: Aetare


 Weazel wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...


Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.


The notation is a bit odd. Land Raider is specifically mentioned to be able to carry Wulfen, however nowhere else can I see a restriction for Wulfen and what transport they can occupy. Drop Pods allow Infantry and Wulfen are infantry... The restriction is pretty implicit if you ask me.


I'm perplexed; does it clearly say that Wulfen cannot be taken in drop pods? And would they be better suited in the flyers in this list anyway?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 07:56:54


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Weazel wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...


Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.


The notation is a bit odd. Land Raider is specifically mentioned to be able to carry Wulfen, however nowhere else can I see a restriction for Wulfen and what transport they can occupy. Drop Pods allow Infantry and Wulfen are infantry... The restriction is pretty implicit if you ask me.


I viewed it as listing the only things that can carry Wulfen from the regular Space Marines entry. It's listing what we can use from the regular SM armory, then lists what from that armory may transport Wulfen. As that key word won't show up in regular SM data sheets. Especially since they're treated like Terminators for the Land Raider and you can't take Terminators in a drop pod. So while it doesn't explicitly stop you from taking them in a Dpod... I think RAI would say you can't take one. Otherwise you could take them in a Rhino or Razorback.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 08:10:20


Post by: Weazel


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I'd have to double check the Wulfen Hunt curse but if it adds the extra inches into charging I'd trade the 515 points for Skyclaws, Wulfen and a Drop Pod.
Headstrong? Who gives a damn, you'll be charging the nearest enemy unit anyway.
Low BS? Your opponent is going to take anything you kill off the front lines so you have to charge further anyway.


The sheet I have says the Hunt table lets you re-roll the charge, not add inches. Which is EXTRA good when you add in the idea of CP allowing you to reroll any dice for a phase or whatever. However it's a 6" range unless you're Blood Claws, which are 12". Sadly it seems Skyclaws no longer have the 12" benefit.


It seems odd they would not include other variations of 'young' Space wolves like the Skyclaws or Swiftclaws....


I believe this is because of the Skyclaws being able to deep strike now so accurately. So just a little balancing tweak.
¨

Might want to recheck keywords for Skyclaws and Swiftclaws. They are Blood Claws for the purposes of Wulfen rules.

E: Lukas's aura also affects Skyclaws and Swiftclaws while we are at it.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 08:13:30


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Weazel wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I'd have to double check the Wulfen Hunt curse but if it adds the extra inches into charging I'd trade the 515 points for Skyclaws, Wulfen and a Drop Pod.
Headstrong? Who gives a damn, you'll be charging the nearest enemy unit anyway.
Low BS? Your opponent is going to take anything you kill off the front lines so you have to charge further anyway.


The sheet I have says the Hunt table lets you re-roll the charge, not add inches. Which is EXTRA good when you add in the idea of CP allowing you to reroll any dice for a phase or whatever. However it's a 6" range unless you're Blood Claws, which are 12". Sadly it seems Skyclaws no longer have the 12" benefit.


It seems odd they would not include other variations of 'young' Space wolves like the Skyclaws or Swiftclaws....


I believe this is because of the Skyclaws being able to deep strike now so accurately. So just a little balancing tweak.
¨

Might want to recheck keywords for Skyclaws and Swiftclaws. They are Blood Claws for the purposes of Wulfen rules.

E: Lukas's aura also affects Skyclaws and Swiftclaws while we are at it.


Oh wow... I did not notice that!! That's awesome!! Thank you! I need to pay better attention to these key words. I just assumed it was the unit of blood claws haha.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 09:06:55


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I'd have to double check the Wulfen Hunt curse but if it adds the extra inches into charging I'd trade the 515 points for Skyclaws, Wulfen and a Drop Pod.
Headstrong? Who gives a damn, you'll be charging the nearest enemy unit anyway.
Low BS? Your opponent is going to take anything you kill off the front lines so you have to charge further anyway.


The sheet I have says the Hunt table lets you re-roll the charge, not add inches. Which is EXTRA good when you add in the idea of CP allowing you to reroll any dice for a phase or whatever. However it's a 6" range unless you're Blood Claws, which are 12". Sadly it seems Skyclaws no longer have the 12" benefit.


It seems odd they would not include other variations of 'young' Space wolves like the Skyclaws or Swiftclaws....


I believe this is because of the Skyclaws being able to deep strike now so accurately. So just a little balancing tweak.
¨

Might want to recheck keywords for Skyclaws and Swiftclaws. They are Blood Claws for the purposes of Wulfen rules.

E: Lukas's aura also affects Skyclaws and Swiftclaws while we are at it.


Oh wow... I did not notice that!! That's awesome!! Thank you! I need to pay better attention to these key words. I just assumed it was the unit of blood claws haha.


Lukas is something I really want to make use of, only problem is he's still so slow.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 17:14:01


Post by: Anpu42


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Murderfang lost a lot of his fire when they canned the Dread in a Pod delivery system.

However he is a Character with less than 10 wounds so you can take something like Blood Claws or Wulfen to act as a screen.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 17:59:47


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


How do we feel about Thunder hammers on TWC? I have all my pack leaders with thunder hammers but I am thinking of ripping their arms off for axes or swords. They only get 3 attacks now.. with the -1 to hit, I'd rather make sure I'm hitting with an axe more (that will likely hit on a 3 the same as a TH on a TWC) for 10 less points. Even with the hammers being damage 3. Also thinking, since frost swords are so cheap, just putting frost swords on the TWC instead of chain swords.

After reviewing my list I'm thinking of dropping a lot of the storm shields as well. I normally had SS on every TWC but... 15 pts per model now. Maybe I'll just put them on a few main axe/TH guys. You can give them ALL plasma pistols for just 7 points a pop now! So a Frost sword + plasma pistol costs the 1 point less than a single storm shield on them.

Decisions...
'
I'm having the same internal discussion for my terminators running around with arjac. However the storm shields are only 5 points instead of 15! So that makes the storm shield worth it... the debate is still over the axe or thunder hammer! I really do not like that -1 to hit. But I suppose it would be useful against multi-wound targets.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 18:05:15


Post by: Anpu42


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
How do we feel about Thunder hammers on TWC? I have all my pack leaders with thunder hammers but I am thinking of ripping their arms off for axes or swords. They only get 3 attacks now.. with the -1 to hit, I'd rather make sure I'm hitting with an axe more (that will likely hit on a 3 the same as a TH on a TWC) for 10 less points. Even with the hammers being damage 3. Also thinking, since frost swords are so cheap, just putting frost swords on the TWC instead of chain swords.

After reviewing my list I'm thinking of dropping a lot of the storm shields as well. I normally had SS on every TWC but... 15 pts per model now. Maybe I'll just put them on a few main axe/TH guys. You can give them ALL plasma pistols for just 7 points a pop now! So a Frost sword + plasma pistol costs the 1 point less than a single storm shield on them.

Decisions...

I think they are still viable, just not an auto-take now. They are still S8 wounding most everything on a 2+/3+ and inflicting 3 wounds, Toss in a Wolf Lord, Wolf Priest (On a Bike) and the -1 to hit will not mater as much.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 18:08:33


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Anpu42 wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
How do we feel about Thunder hammers on TWC? I have all my pack leaders with thunder hammers but I am thinking of ripping their arms off for axes or swords. They only get 3 attacks now.. with the -1 to hit, I'd rather make sure I'm hitting with an axe more (that will likely hit on a 3 the same as a TH on a TWC) for 10 less points. Even with the hammers being damage 3. Also thinking, since frost swords are so cheap, just putting frost swords on the TWC instead of chain swords.

After reviewing my list I'm thinking of dropping a lot of the storm shields as well. I normally had SS on every TWC but... 15 pts per model now. Maybe I'll just put them on a few main axe/TH guys. You can give them ALL plasma pistols for just 7 points a pop now! So a Frost sword + plasma pistol costs the 1 point less than a single storm shield on them.

Decisions...

I think they are still viable, just not an auto-take now. They are still S8 wounding most everything on a 2+/3+ and inflicting 3 wounds, Toss in a Wolf Lord, Wolf Priest (On a Bike) and the -1 to hit will not mater as much.


Well since I run multiple dreads I have 2 Iron Priests on TWC running around. I feel like that's where my hammers are if I need them, especially since as you said they're not an autotake. How do you feel about the stormshields though? Especially since I intend to bring Wulfen as well. I'd put two thunder hammers with them. 15 points on the TWC for one is harsh... for termies it's only 5 points! I feel like I might get more bang for my buck with a plasma pistol on everyone.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 18:14:34


Post by: Anpu42


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Anpu42 wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
How do we feel about Thunder hammers on TWC? I have all my pack leaders with thunder hammers but I am thinking of ripping their arms off for axes or swords. They only get 3 attacks now.. with the -1 to hit, I'd rather make sure I'm hitting with an axe more (that will likely hit on a 3 the same as a TH on a TWC) for 10 less points. Even with the hammers being damage 3. Also thinking, since frost swords are so cheap, just putting frost swords on the TWC instead of chain swords.

After reviewing my list I'm thinking of dropping a lot of the storm shields as well. I normally had SS on every TWC but... 15 pts per model now. Maybe I'll just put them on a few main axe/TH guys. You can give them ALL plasma pistols for just 7 points a pop now! So a Frost sword + plasma pistol costs the 1 point less than a single storm shield on them.

Decisions...

I think they are still viable, just not an auto-take now. They are still S8 wounding most everything on a 2+/3+ and inflicting 3 wounds, Toss in a Wolf Lord, Wolf Priest (On a Bike) and the -1 to hit will not mater as much.


Well since I run multiple dreads I have 2 Iron Priests on TWC running around. I feel like that's where my hammers are if I need them, especially since as you said they're not an autotake. How do you feel about the stormshields though? Especially since I intend to bring Wulfen as well. I'd put two thunder hammers with them. 15 points on the TWC for one is harsh... for termies it's only 5 points! I feel like I might get more bang for my buck with a plasma pistol on everyone.

Currently I think they are good, but possibly something Thunderwolves need. They are big and Scary and have three Wounds. This will make them the target of Anti-Tank Weapons and most do horrible things to Armor saves. I would take at least half of them with Storm Shields, me personally I am sticking with one on each.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 18:27:46


Post by: crouching lictor


I think it depends on what role you want them to fill. If you're using them to hunt infantry then swords and axes are fine. If you want to hunt vehicles or monstrous creatures then hammers and maybe axes are the go to weapons imo.

I think storm shields are essential to protect against enemy shooting. 8th edition still favors shooting and a 3+ alone will not hold up.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 19:26:37


Post by: kodos


What would you guys put into a 1850 point list to go against that "deathstar"

Spoiler:

5x CSM daemon prince
Belakor
Changeling
12x 8 Brimestone + 2 Blue Horrors
6 exalted Flamers

the 100 Horrors are "swarming" around the other Princes so you can't shoot them and blocking charges


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 19:44:55


Post by: Weazel


So which weapon for Bjorn? Good Old Assault Cannon seems alright but Lascannons are pretty awesome now. 2+ to hit with a reroll seems like two autohits and 2+/3+ to wound almost anything with D6 damage to boot... Thoughts?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 19:51:29


Post by: kodos


heavy Plasmacannon for Bjorn because of his re-roll


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 20:00:39


Post by: Northern85Star


Just decided to start a SW army after a 20 year hiatus from 40K. Did play some fantasy in between for a couple of years, but now friends startet a gaming group again, so here i am. Was no other choice for me than SW, since i look like one with beard and long hair.

I've spend a lot of time trying to create 2000 pts lists from the new rules. Especially since i'm looking to invest in an entire army - so i really want to be sure on what i want, and how it works.

These are the tactics i've come up with so far.

1) Dreadnought deathstar with iron priests shielding them. 3 dreads with blizzard shields.
Pros: unkillable, very strong offense, not too expensive.
Con: slow moving.
Use: Move forward and kill on contact.

2) Lone Wolves with frost sword and thundershield.
Pros: Cheapest elite choice (for CP). Very good defense (3+/3++/4+FNP).
Cons: Weak offensive power (3A at 1 dmg).
Use: Keeps expensive enemy models busy.

3) Termicide. We have the rare opportunity to kit every Wolf Guard TDA with combi-weapons.
Pros: Dmg output. Terminators.
Con: Expensive. Low mobility after deep strike (if kitted with low range meltas).
Use: Deep strike for one-turn kill of tanks, characters, heavy weapon units (basically: kill whatever can kill the termies before they get to).

4) Wolf Guard TDA with storm shield in GH/BC/LF units.
Pros: Great defensive boost, since you get to allocate wounds to a 2+/3++ model with 2 wounds. Good all around melee model.
Cons: Cost, less mobility for the unit.
Use: Stick them in blood claw units in transports. Embark, shoot, charge and let the WGBL soak up the wounds.

I'm unsure about the Stormfang and the Stormwolf. They are very strong and a huge benefit for the mobility of the army - but they might be too weak defensivly to hold up.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 20:57:11


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 kodos wrote:
What would you guys put into a 1850 point list to go against that "deathstar"

Spoiler:

5x CSM daemon prince
Belakor
Changeling
12x 8 Brimestone + 2 Blue Horrors
6 exalted Flamers

the 100 Horrors are "swarming" around the other Princes so you can't shoot them and blocking charges


Ouch... My initial opinion is lots of flamers. Are horrors immune to morale? Their save is already bad so a volume of fire/wounds would be go to. Bloodclaws in numbers to "match" the horrors maybe and some elite/monster hunters like Wulfen could do the job. Alternatively if you want to shoot... Space Wolf scouts with sniper rifles = you can target the characters. Our scouts are awesome too. Just my initial thoughts.

 Weazel wrote:
So which weapon for Bjorn? Good Old Assault Cannon seems alright but Lascannons are pretty awesome now. 2+ to hit with a reroll seems like two autohits and 2+/3+ to wound almost anything with D6 damage to boot... Thoughts?


If you want to put a Lascannon on Bjorn just use the hellfrost cannon instead. Same thing basically with more options. And it looks cool!



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/15 23:18:10


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Anpu42 wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Anpu42 wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
How do we feel about Thunder hammers on TWC? I have all my pack leaders with thunder hammers but I am thinking of ripping their arms off for axes or swords. They only get 3 attacks now.. with the -1 to hit, I'd rather make sure I'm hitting with an axe more (that will likely hit on a 3 the same as a TH on a TWC) for 10 less points. Even with the hammers being damage 3. Also thinking, since frost swords are so cheap, just putting frost swords on the TWC instead of chain swords.

After reviewing my list I'm thinking of dropping a lot of the storm shields as well. I normally had SS on every TWC but... 15 pts per model now. Maybe I'll just put them on a few main axe/TH guys. You can give them ALL plasma pistols for just 7 points a pop now! So a Frost sword + plasma pistol costs the 1 point less than a single storm shield on them.

Decisions...

I think they are still viable, just not an auto-take now. They are still S8 wounding most everything on a 2+/3+ and inflicting 3 wounds, Toss in a Wolf Lord, Wolf Priest (On a Bike) and the -1 to hit will not mater as much.


Well since I run multiple dreads I have 2 Iron Priests on TWC running around. I feel like that's where my hammers are if I need them, especially since as you said they're not an autotake. How do you feel about the stormshields though? Especially since I intend to bring Wulfen as well. I'd put two thunder hammers with them. 15 points on the TWC for one is harsh... for termies it's only 5 points! I feel like I might get more bang for my buck with a plasma pistol on everyone.

Currently I think they are good, but possibly something Thunderwolves need. They are big and Scary and have three Wounds. This will make them the target of Anti-Tank Weapons and most do horrible things to Armor saves. I would take at least half of them with Storm Shields, me personally I am sticking with one on each.


My TWC have always been a majority Storm Shield thing.
3x TWC means two Storm Shields and one model with a pair of Wolf Claws, the Wolf Claws have lost a lot of their bite with the reduction of TWCs base power but they're still extra attacks at higher strength and ap, meaning they can potentially cut wounds off anything. Pack Leader gets a pair of claws and he's swinging eight s5 attacks, five with higher ap, three with a bit lower - nasty.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 01:38:21


Post by: Ulfhednar_42


 kodos wrote:
What would you guys put into a 1850 point list to go against that "deathstar"

Isn't the counter for any spam list MSU with twin AssCan razorbacks?



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 04:02:53


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


So I made another list just trying to think of how else I'd like to play my Space Wolves. My initial list was very rush and melee based so I was trying to strike a better balance. I believe I've found it but... let's see what you all think! Battlescribe, though it took some digging, is functional for a number of armies in 8th now. Made it much easier to toy around with lists!


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++

+ HQ +

Arjac Rockfist: Foehammer
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Frost axe, Jump Packs
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun

Grey Hunters
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun

Grey Hunters
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought
. Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe

Venerable Dreadnought
. Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe

Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armour: Frost sword, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Skyclaws
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

Skyclaws
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider Crusader: Hunter-killer missile, 2x Hurricane bolter, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

Predator: Twin lascannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback: Twin heavy bolter

Razorback: Twin heavy bolter

Razorback: Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [113 PL, 2000pts] ++

++ Selection Rules ++

. And They Shall Know No Fear: You can re-roll failed Morale tests for this unit.

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 05:30:30


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Very nice - looks like it can pump out a lot of different types of damage.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 06:38:29


Post by: kodos


Ulfhednar_42 wrote:
 kodos wrote:
What would you guys put into a 1850 point list to go against that "deathstar"

Isn't the counter for any spam list MSU with twin AssCan razorbacks?


I hoped someone has a better idea than fight spam with spam
however, invest a 100-150 Points to kill of 25 Points is not the best but I guess AC and Heavy Flamer spam ist best we have in a SW list.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 07:35:06


Post by: Weazel


I don't know, for Bjorn feels like the Plasma Cannon and Helfrost are kinda mediocre. Against hordes the Assault Cannon feels superior and against tough targets the Twin Lascannon feels superior. Need to playtest a few options then.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 07:59:35


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Weazel wrote:
I don't know, for Bjorn feels like the Plasma Cannon and Helfrost are kinda mediocre. Against hordes the Assault Cannon feels superior and against tough targets the Twin Lascannon feels superior. Need to playtest a few options then.


Oh right it's a twin lascannon now.... that does make a difference! Always forgetting little things like that. :(


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 08:19:26


Post by: kodos


the twin Laser and Plasma cannon do the same average damage
with the Laser having advantage on range and against single models while the Plasma is better against units and cheaper in points.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 13:14:53


Post by: crouching lictor


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
So I made another list just trying to think of how else I'd like to play my Space Wolves. My initial list was very rush and melee based so I was trying to strike a better balance. I believe I've found it but... let's see what you all think! Battlescribe, though it took some digging, is functional for a number of armies in 8th now. Made it much easier to toy around with lists!


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++

+ HQ +

Arjac Rockfist: Foehammer
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Frost axe, Jump Packs
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun

Grey Hunters
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun

Grey Hunters
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought
. Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe

Venerable Dreadnought
. Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe

Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Frost axe, Storm shield
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armour: Frost sword, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Skyclaws
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

Skyclaws
. Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack
. Skyclaw Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider Crusader: Hunter-killer missile, 2x Hurricane bolter, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

Predator: Twin lascannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback: Twin heavy bolter

Razorback: Twin heavy bolter

Razorback: Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [113 PL, 2000pts] ++

++ Selection Rules ++

. And They Shall Know No Fear: You can re-roll failed Morale tests for this unit.

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

This list looks pretty good. I'd suggest adding a power sword or axe to your sky claws for a little more cc punch but it's not a necessity. I'd be careful of having the skyclaws kited away too since they'll have to charge the closest unit without a wolf guard in the pack.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 13:35:53


Post by: lessthanjeff


Am I missing how much the wolf guard pack leader costs for units like grey hunters? I wanted to get a frost sword in the unit but the grey hunter pack leader can only take a power sword and I don't need him to have terminator armor if it's a good bit cheaper.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 13:43:22


Post by: Anpu42


Just to let all of you know I am taking inspiration from this thread for my First Impressions Thread...btw today in Bjorn.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 14:42:18


Post by: Ragnar69


 lessthanjeff wrote:
Am I missing how much the wolf guard pack leader costs for units like grey hunters? I wanted to get a frost sword in the unit but the grey hunter pack leader can only take a power sword and I don't need him to have terminator armor if it's a good bit cheaper.

WG PL cost the same as a normal Model of the unit


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 16:12:11


Post by: Weazel


So Long Fangs. I have 10 guys with Missile Launchers so it would be so very convenient to run 5+5 Fangs. However for the same points I could get Lascannons which are strictly better against T8+ (and arguably better against any toughness because of better AP) and for a few points less I could get Plasma Cannons which seem to be better than Frag Missiles against anything with a decent save really.

So should I stick with the utility of Missile Launchers or specialize and go 5 Plasma Cannons and 5 Lascannons instead? Or even 5 Lascannons and 5 Heavy Bolters?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 18:32:23


Post by: crouching lictor


 Weazel wrote:
So Long Fangs. I have 10 guys with Missile Launchers so it would be so very convenient to run 5+5 Fangs. However for the same points I could get Lascannons which are strictly better against T8+ (and arguably better against any toughness because of better AP) and for a few points less I could get Plasma Cannons which seem to be better than Frag Missiles against anything with a decent save really.

So should I stick with the utility of Missile Launchers or specialize and go 5 Plasma Cannons and 5 Lascannons instead? Or even 5 Lascannons and 5 Heavy Bolters?

Like all units, it depends on what role you want them to fill and what the rest of your army consists of. Missile launchers are good all around weapons that can take on light to medium vehicles and hordes. Lascannons are better for going after super heavies and monstrous creatures. Plasma cannons are also good for big game hunting, especially using long fangs with the built in re roll. Heavy bolters are also great for taking out light vehicles and troops.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 19:41:20


Post by: lessthanjeff


Ragnar69 wrote:
 lessthanjeff wrote:
Am I missing how much the wolf guard pack leader costs for units like grey hunters? I wanted to get a frost sword in the unit but the grey hunter pack leader can only take a power sword and I don't need him to have terminator armor if it's a good bit cheaper.

WG PL cost the same as a normal Model of the unit


How sure are you about that? I'm not talking about the Grey Hunter Pack Leader for the squad, I'm talking about the Wolf Guard Pack Leader which is an optional second character you can add to the unit. He has an additional Power Level cost that is more than what you pay for each other model in the unit.

I was guessing he was going to be the cost of a regular Wolf Guard model since the Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor is the same as the regular members of a wolf guard unit in terminator armor.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 20:28:53


Post by: kodos


Wolf Guard Pack Leaders have no points for now
we are also missing the points for Ragnars wolves and Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leaders are missing the Terminator keyword

I would go with the Wolf Guard points for now


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/16 22:10:29


Post by: Ragnar69


PL in TDA have a cost Listed. PA Not, just like SM vet sergeants.
They cost extra power because they are additional Models contrary to vet sergeants.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 06:09:28


Post by: kodos


the SM Sergeant is the equivalent of the standard Pack Leader (there is no veteran sergeant upgrade for vanilla marines)
yes, a Blood Claw Pack Leader cost the same points as a normal Blood Claw

the problem with Wolfguard Pack Leader is:
if they cost like regular models of the unit and have not their own entry, they also have the same keywords as the unit
which makes no sense that a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has the Bloodclaw keyword instead of Wolfguard (and would not count as WG for the BC forst assault special rule)

if they count as Wolfguard and have the Wolfguard keyword from the WG entry, you cannot use the Bloodclaw points as WG have their own.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 14:07:06


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 kodos wrote:
the SM Sergeant is the equivalent of the standard Pack Leader (there is no veteran sergeant upgrade for vanilla marines)
yes, a Blood Claw Pack Leader cost the same points as a normal Blood Claw

the problem with Wolfguard Pack Leader is:
if they cost like regular models of the unit and have not their own entry, they also have the same keywords as the unit
which makes no sense that a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has the Bloodclaw keyword instead of Wolfguard (and would not count as WG for the BC forst assault special rule)

if they count as Wolfguard and have the Wolfguard keyword from the WG entry, you cannot use the Bloodclaw points as WG have their own.


Its so they don't stop the unit getting Blood Claw specific things like Wulfen auras at 12 inches and Lukas' bonuses.
If one model of the squad doesn't get re-rolls on their charges, none of them do. As for the cost I'd just cough up standard Wolf Guard costs to keep myself feeling honest.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 15:06:54


Post by: kodos


I expect it that way
a Wolf Guard in the unit prevents them from "silly" charging everything in 12", but therefore also have them under control regarding the influence of Wulfen or Lukas.

The same it is for Wolf Scouts, the WGPL does not have his own keywords, but is also not allowed to get a camo cloak.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 16:22:38


Post by: Weazel


It's the same in every codex, unless the sergeant is explicitly stated (e.g. WGPL in TDA), he costs as much as a standard member of the squad. It's only a 2-3 point difference with Wolves though. Orks get a Boss Nob for the price of a Boy and there's a 11 point difference. Go figure. Guess they'll FAQ it soon enough because it's a bit confusing.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 16:30:59


Post by: Northern85Star


Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How are we going to beat Tau? They seem really OP.

Consider this:

Wolf lord is 74 points: M6, WS 2+, BS 2+, S4, T4, W5, A4, LD9, +3 save, aura.

Tau Commander is 76 points: M8, WS 2+, BS 3+, S5, T5, W6, A4, LD9, +3 save, adaptable aura AND deepstrike. Possible loadout includes 4 meltaguns with 18" range for a total of 160 points. This means they get improved dmg roll on the turn they deepstrike (2 dices, highest roll counts), with re-rollable to hit.

When charging them, they can overwatch with two units if they're within 6".

They're going to annihilate every vehicle on turn 1, bringing 3+ Tau Commanders.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 19:44:15


Post by: kodos


Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 19:58:37


Post by: Mavnas


Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How are we going to beat Tau? They seem really OP.

Consider this:

Wolf lord is 74 points: M6, WS 2+, BS 2+, S4, T4, W5, A4, LD9, +3 save, aura.

Tau Commander is 76 points: M8, WS 2+, BS 3+, S5, T5, W6, A4, LD9, +3 save, adaptable aura AND deepstrike. Possible loadout includes 4 meltaguns with 18" range for a total of 160 points. This means they get improved dmg roll on the turn they deepstrike (2 dices, highest roll counts), with re-rollable to hit.

When charging them, they can overwatch with two units if they're within 6".

They're going to annihilate every vehicle on turn 1, bringing 3+ Tau Commanders.


How are they getting the improved damage. They have to set up more than 9" away and half range is than 9" or less. The 9" restriction is there for everyone in order to mess with flamers, charges, weapons that shoot better from half range, etc. Furthermore, even with the improved role, a melta shot only has a 50% chance to wound a T8 vehicle and does an average of 4.5 damage with the improved role. An average of 4.5 (I'm treating them as auto hit even though they're 97% only.) isn't wiping out any tanks. Heck, their average damage to a Rhino (or other T7) in that situation is still only 6 points (or 4.6666 if you didn't let them cheat). It's not that different from any other army that can deep-strike melta, though I guess somewhat cheaper and more accurate.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 20:10:06


Post by: Northern85Star


 kodos wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword


P198 in my rulebook is the "ambush" scenario? Maybe i'm missing something, i don't have a physical copy yet. Anyway, if that's the case, then WG are a must in a BC unit. +1 BS, +1 A, +1 LD with better wargear options and making the headstrong. All for the price of your regular BC! Seems like he does have similar keywords as the units, in any case - the ruling for the BC 1+ on charge is "all models in this unit", so he does get the bonus.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 20:17:14


Post by: kodos


Northern85Star wrote:
 kodos wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword


P198 in my rulebook is the "ambush" scenario? .


should have been more clear that Index 1 is Index: Imperium 1, not the rulebook


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 20:49:39


Post by: Northern85Star


Mavnas wrote:

How are they getting the improved damage. They have to set up more than 9" away and half range is than 9" or less. The 9" restriction is there for everyone in order to mess with flamers, charges, weapons that shoot better from half range, etc. Furthermore, even with the improved role, a melta shot only has a 50% chance to wound a T8 vehicle and does an average of 4.5 damage with the improved role. An average of 4.5 (I'm treating them as auto hit even though they're 97% only.) isn't wiping out any tanks. Heck, their average damage to a Rhino (or other T7) in that situation is still only 6 points (or 4.6666 if you didn't let them cheat). It's not that different from any other army that can deep-strike melta, though I guess somewhat cheaper and more accurate.


You're correct, they don't get the improved damage roll. Still, consider 4 tau commanders with 4 multimeltas (about 650 pts). Add in a longstrike with BS 2+, Str10 with +1 mod, -4 ap and D6 dmg. That's +2/+2 for D6 dmg to your land raider. That's an average of 21.5 wounds on T8 tanks on turn one. And unlike terminators, they have a 26"+D6 range on their meltas (movement + advance + shooting range, no penalties to hit due to aura), so deepstriking on a single target is viable, without the risk of leaving them useless in coming turns. That's about 900 pts of Tau with the longstrike.

Maybe i'm being dramatic, but it seems insanely powerful against everything due to the fall back rule, and that each commander is his own unit (charge one model, 2 models fire overwatch - next turn, Tau falls back and fires with remaining 3 models).


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 21:03:44


Post by: Mavnas


I mean sure, but that's half their army being dedicated to anti-tank. How many lascannons could you field for 900 points; they would make a mess of a land-raider too?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 22:13:50


Post by: xmbk


Sooo. Last night, Bjorn killed 2 of my hive tyrants and 2 carnifex. A) Very different edition. B) Bjorn is a beast.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/17 22:36:29


Post by: kodos


what weapons were used?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/18 01:57:51


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Northern85Star wrote:
Mavnas wrote:

How are they getting the improved damage. They have to set up more than 9" away and half range is than 9" or less. The 9" restriction is there for everyone in order to mess with flamers, charges, weapons that shoot better from half range, etc. Furthermore, even with the improved role, a melta shot only has a 50% chance to wound a T8 vehicle and does an average of 4.5 damage with the improved role. An average of 4.5 (I'm treating them as auto hit even though they're 97% only.) isn't wiping out any tanks. Heck, their average damage to a Rhino (or other T7) in that situation is still only 6 points (or 4.6666 if you didn't let them cheat). It's not that different from any other army that can deep-strike melta, though I guess somewhat cheaper and more accurate.


You're correct, they don't get the improved damage roll. Still, consider 4 tau commanders with 4 multimeltas (about 650 pts). Add in a longstrike with BS 2+, Str10 with +1 mod, -4 ap and D6 dmg. That's +2/+2 for D6 dmg to your land raider. That's an average of 21.5 wounds on T8 tanks on turn one. And unlike terminators, they have a 26"+D6 range on their meltas (movement + advance + shooting range, no penalties to hit due to aura), so deepstriking on a single target is viable, without the risk of leaving them useless in coming turns. That's about 900 pts of Tau with the longstrike.

Maybe i'm being dramatic, but it seems insanely powerful against everything due to the fall back rule, and that each commander is his own unit (charge one model, 2 models fire overwatch - next turn, Tau falls back and fires with remaining 3 models).


Try telling the Tyrannids that the nine inch rule matters, there's nice big MCs lovingly referred to as Pyrovores that can be monster dropped just outside of nine inches and drop a ten inch flamer round on the enemy.

As for T'au I think Guard and Nid armies will change them - the loss of template and shot for shot efficiency means T'au players can't just invest in marker drones and MCs anymore, they gotta balance those things against what hoard armies bring to the table in a newer way. I haven't had more than a browse over the Xenos bookies but personally I'm expecting successful T'au lists to be more aggressive on deepstrike tactics rather than sit back and shoot gunline style.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/18 04:10:45


Post by: jcd386


 kodos wrote:
the SM Sergeant is the equivalent of the standard Pack Leader (there is no veteran sergeant upgrade for vanilla marines)
yes, a Blood Claw Pack Leader cost the same points as a normal Blood Claw

the problem with Wolfguard Pack Leader is:
if they cost like regular models of the unit and have not their own entry, they also have the same keywords as the unit
which makes no sense that a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has the Bloodclaw keyword instead of Wolfguard (and would not count as WG for the BC forst assault special rule)

if they count as Wolfguard and have the Wolfguard keyword from the WG entry, you cannot use the Bloodclaw points as WG have their own.


I think you could consider it to make sense in that the other WGPLs are busy commanding their own squads, so only the non pack leader ones can control other squads of blood claws.

And in actual gameplay it works fine. Just always take a WGPL since he doesn't cost more than a regular blood claw. The only time this really effects anything is if you wanted to take 5 man squads, as it forces you to bring a 6th guy as the WGPL. I see this as more of an issue for grey hunters than blood claws, since GH tend to want smaller combi-weapon + special weapon units and BC like larger melee focused units.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/18 10:58:19


Post by: Northern85Star


This is my take so far on a 2000 pts list.

Battalion detachment, +3 CP:

WGBL on thunderwolf: SS, thunderhammer

Wof priest on bike: plasmapistol

3 x 5 BC + WGPL w/ frost sword and plasma pistol.
BCPL w/ powersword

3 x TWC: frost sword, SS

2 x razorback w/ twin-las
1 x razorback w/ twin-assault cannon


Vanguard detachment, +1 CP:

WL w/ TDA: chainfist, combi-plasma

WGBL w/ TDA: SS, thunderhammer

7 x WG w/ TDA.
WGPL with thunderhammer and SS.
1 x frost sword and SS ("meat shield").
4 x combi-plasma and frost sword.
1 x assault cannon and frost sword.

Venerable dreadnought w/ FGA and Blizz shield.

5 wolf scouts w/ meltagun + WGBL w/ combi-melta.


Strat:

Razorbacks with BCs go with the dread.

Thunderwolfs with WGBL and wolf priest tries to absorb firepower, since the enemy must kill a model or have it restore its wounds.

Wolf scouts to take on heavy artillery that's placed far from other models, alternatively help our terminators.

Terminators with WL and WGBL for a heavy hit, preferably on the opposite flank of the TWC. With this setup they get to re-roll 1s on both to hit and to wound, while the enemy has to go through four 2+/3++ wounds before taking down it's firepower. They don't have meltas to take advantage of the re-roll, and to give them range of fire - i excect to take down, or tie up, heavy vehicles in CC, since i have 3 attempts to get the 9" charge after deepstriking.


Doubts:

Wolf scouts. Are the meltas worth it in such a squishy unit? Should they be geared towards anti-infantry instead? Maybe they're better used tieing up heavy artillery in CC?

Terminators. Should they have meltas instead or are the range too poor for them?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/18 13:32:35


Post by: Anpu42


Northern85Star wrote:
This is my take so far on a 2000 pts list.Doubts:

Wolf scouts. Are the meltas worth it in such a squishy unit? Should they be geared towards anti-infantry instead? Maybe they're better used tieing up heavy artillery in CC?

Terminators. Should they have meltas instead or are the range too poor for them?

Yes Melta is a good choice, especially with the Combi-Melta. It is the load out of the rest of the Pack you need to look at.
You can take 2 (3 if you want to give one to the Wolf Guard Pack Leader) Plasma Pistols
Take Shotguns, with the Melta you don't need range and if you can get the Shotguns to 6" (Like what you want with the Melta) You are now wounding most vehicles on a 5+ and that is also the optimal range for Krak Grenades.

A quick rundown, Come out from the edge of the table, pop your target with Two Melta Shots, 2 Plasma Pistols (Possibly on Not-So-Safe-Mode) and 12 Shotgun Blast. Then when you get the chance get within 2"-6" with the Melta, now S5 Shotgun Blast, Plasma Pistols and a Krak Grenade. You can also Advance if you need to as the Shot Guns and Melta are all Assault Weapons.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/18 15:27:14


Post by: kodos


If I made no mistake a Plasma and Melta load out do the same amount of damage (with overcharged Plasma)

2 Plasma Pistols + 1 Plasma Gun and 1 KombiPlasma VS 2 PP+ Melter + Kombimelter
bot are about the same damge, Melter cost 8 points more and Plasma is better against units with 2 wounds


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/18 16:48:48


Post by: lessthanjeff


 kodos wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword


Awesome catch! Thanks! Still gotta figure out the cost of Ragnar's wolves in there somewhere too.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/19 12:49:33


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Ragnar can take furry bodyguards?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/19 16:00:03


Post by: kodos


yes


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/19 22:44:26


Post by: crouching lictor


So, to talk actual tactics, what are the opinions on force composition fir a tournament environment? To me, it looks like we need to prepare for mass razorback spam, Taurox Prime/scion spam, tyranid/ork/IG hordes (likely immune to battle shock), 3+ Knights, khorne berserker rhino rush, and tau commander spam.

It seems like a tall order to prepare a list that can counter all of that. I'm thinking one, maybe two packs of long fangs with missile launchers for versatility, one or two dedicated assault units, mobility for objective grabs, and some screening units to absorb T1 charges. I've played a couple of games against Orks with 180+ boyz and 4 Knights and it isn't pretty.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/19 23:48:53


Post by: jcd386


crouching lictor wrote:
So, to talk actual tactics, what are the opinions on force composition fir a tournament environment? To me, it looks like we need to prepare for mass razorback spam, Taurox Prime/scion spam, tyranid/ork/IG hordes (likely immune to battle shock), 3+ Knights, khorne berserker rhino rush, and tau commander spam.

It seems like a tall order to prepare a list that can counter all of that. I'm thinking one, maybe two packs of long fangs with missile launchers for versatility, one or two dedicated assault units, mobility for objective grabs, and some screening units to absorb T1 charges. I've played a couple of games against Orks with 180+ boyz and 4 Knights and it isn't pretty.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.


I think the answer, if there is one, has to be found in the things that make space wolves different than regular / other marines. It's definitely possible that without a codex space wolves aren't top tier right now, but I still have hope for them looking at their options so far. The things that have stuck out to me so far are:

Wolf Priests: An interesting combination of Chaplain and Apothecary, these seem like a good choice if you are bringing TWC, Wulfen, or any other multi-wound melee focused unit (Wolf guard terminators or bikes, i suppose). They can't bring models back, but they can help mitigate some damage and give melee units in 6" a significant damage boost.
Wolf Claws: for the same cost as a Lightning Claw, the Wolf Claw is simply better (it has +1S). This makes Space Wolves the ability to be better in combat than other marines for the same price. For a slightly higher price, the frost axe and frost sword are also better than the Non-Space Wolves power weapons. These weapons are all fairly cheap and shouldn't be overlooked.
Rune Priests: Although they can only know one Space Wolf power, our Psykers are cheaper than normal space marines, and out powers are all very good. A 6" bubble of cover (+1 to armor save) is great, and so is making an enemy unit subtract 1 from their hit rolls.
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders: These are probably my favorite Space Wolf HQ, since they are very cheap, provide a great aura (re-roll 1s to wound), and have lots of options for how to run them (jump pack, bike, TWC, etc), unlike the Primaris Lieutenant for the Space Marines, or the terminator anchient for the blood angels (their sources of re-rolling wounds). You can either keep them cheap at 60 points and keep them with your long fangs and other fire support, or give them a wolf claw etc and have them go out with your forward troops. Pairing this with a Wolf Lord gives everything in 6" rerolls of 1 to hit and wound, which is pretty strong.
Blood Claws: 13 points per model and 3 attacks on the charge make these some of the cheapest and hardest hitting melee marines in the game. I think the way to run them is in Rhinos. If you have Wulfen around them, they get even scarier. They definitely have some weaknesses, namely their bad BS4+, but giving them flamers can mostly fix this.
TWC: Pretty good beatstick units, and reasonably fast. I think Wolf Claws and storm shields are probably the way to go on them.
Wulfen: Pretty scary by themselves, and they make blood claws terrifying.
Long Fangs: their ability to re-roll 1s to hit vs one target in shooting is pretty great. I plan to combo them with a WGBL to give them rerolling 1s to wound too. I think i like missile launchers on them the most as they are very versatile.
Wolf Guard Bikes: I think these can be good with storm bolters (4-8 shots is pretty fun for 4 points), and a few power weapons and combi-weapons.
Wolf Guard Terminators: These can be cheaper than SM terminators if you take a mix of power weapons, and hit pretty hard. Again i like them with some storm bolters for tons of shots.
Wolf Scouts: Cheap, and their behind enemy lines lets them force the enemy to deploy to avoid them, or hit something valuable with a few special weapons.

Then of course we also get the good things that all marines get:

Pedators (las cannons i think are best)
Landspeeders (probably with heavy flamers)
Dreads (we have shooty and better melee ones)
Razorbacks (i like assault cannon and las/plas, personally)

I think that using the cool space wolves things we have, plus the classic SM options, we will be able to do okay this edition, and hopefully it wont be long before we get a codex to help boost us some more.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 01:53:36


Post by: crouching lictor


I agree with pretty much everything you stated. I don't know that we can build a true TAC style list in 8th. This edition is very Rock-paper-scissors like.

I might try something like bjorn, 2 blood claw packs, supported by missile toting long fangs and some wolf guard bikers. If I take an imperial soup approach I'd add in some conscripts with commissar and junior officer and a vindicaire.

I also agree that it's early on in the life of this edition and that hopefully our codex gives us a boost. For now though, our damage output does not seem sufficient nor points efficient.

Here's the base of what I'm considering...

SW Battalion (+3CP)

HQ
Bjorn, helfrost cannon (+1CP)

Elite
Lukas the Trickster
5 Wolf Guard Bikers, 5 storm bolters, 5 storm shields, 1 thunder hammer, 4 chainswords

Troops
13 Blood Claws, 2 flamers, +BCPL w/power axe, +WGPL w/wolf claw, combi-plasma
13 Blood Claws, 2 flamers, +BCPL w/power axe, +WGPL w/wolf claw, combi-plasma
5 Grey Hunters, plasma gun, plasma pistol, +GHPL w/power sword, Razorback w/twin assault cannons

Heavy Support
5 Long Fangs, 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers
5 Long Fangs, 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers

This leaves me with 353 points to spend. I'm thinking of three options: (1) a combi plasma wolf guard bike pack; (2) a combi plasma wolf guard jump pack; (3) wulfen kitted out for heavy melee. I'd probably have enough points left over for a wolf scout pack or a vindicaire as well.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 03:46:42


Post by: jcd386


crouching lictor wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything you stated. I don't know that we can build a true TAC style list in 8th. This edition is very Rock-paper-scissors like.

I might try something like bjorn, 2 blood claw packs, supported by missile toting long fangs and some wolf guard bikers. If I take an imperial soup approach I'd add in some conscripts with commissar and junior officer and a vindicaire.

I also agree that it's early on in the life of this edition and that hopefully our codex gives us a boost. For now though, our damage output does not seem sufficient nor points efficient.


Typically lists are very rock paper scissorsy at first, but then people have to start balancing their lists more of they don't want to auto lose 1/3 of the time, and some kind of meta evolves. It's probably too early to see what that is yet. Hopefully the codexes are released quickly and close together so we can have a good idea what is going on without the constant new releases confusing things.

I think 2-3 squads of blood claws in rhinos backed by shooting elements and maybe accompanied by Wulfen or TWC will fair well against most typical lists. SW can also do razor back spam pretty well with cheap scouts and acolytes inside, with some points left over for either an assault element or more shooting. If the goal is a gunline, SW can actually do it quite well with dreads, long fangs, and razorbacks, with WGBLs and Wolf Lords giving them cheap rerolls.

I'd also be interested in seeing how a list with 60 or so blood claws in rhinos plus some anti tank shooting would do. In my experience 10 charging blood claws with flamers and a wolf claw and power sword kill pretty much any infantry unit so it's mostly a matter of getting close and getting the charges off first.

I think SW can fight vehicle spam and hordes pretty well. I'm not too sure how great they are vs knights, but im also not too sure we'll see much of that after the first few months, as i think there will be hard counters for it, and they will have a hard time holding objectives etc so we'll just have to play the missions.

Either way i am optimistic that SW will at least be middle of the pack when it comes to being a good army, codexes should help a lot, and ideally GW will care and tweak things as needed if they are not strong enough.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 07:13:38


Post by: kodos


Already hoping for a Codex is not a good idea
maybe we are in the new Marine Codex or just a Supplement for it or our Codex takes 4 years until it arrives.

Regarding a tournament list, I see more than one (more like 3-4) concept being viable.
I just don't see it working if you take one from everything that looks good on paper, like 1 unit of Wulfen with 1 unit of Claws, 1 Dread, etc.
the one thing I need to figure out now is what unit is best for which weapon per point cost.
Like Heavy Flamers in Speeders or AC on Razorbacks, but it comes to Jump Packs in Guard VS Sky Claws, Guard in Bikes with Combi-Melta VS Long Fangs with MultiMelta.

Some "extreme" concepts I want to test (that I see working in theory).

Blood Claw Spam: MMU (multiple max. units), 3+ units of Claws, 2 units of Wulfen, 2 of both Priests, WGBL, 2xScouts, fill the points with Landspeeder (flamer) and Laser (Long Fangs or Preds)

Dread Spam:
Bjorn (Plasma), Iron Priest, Murderfang, 2+ Dreds with Axe, 2+ Dreads with 2 Autocannons, 2 Dreads with Laser+Wolf Claw


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 10:08:17


Post by: Dakka Wolf


My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 10:12:04


Post by: BlaxicanX


I really enjoy how much plasma you can pack into a list. Grey Hunters having access to up to four plasma weapons is pretty nice, especially if you can get them in range of a reroll for the dank overcharge.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 11:22:00


Post by: Blackie


How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 13:38:49


Post by: crouching lictor


 Blackie wrote:
How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.


Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.

Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.


How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 21:05:23


Post by: jcd386


Spoiler:
crouching lictor wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.


Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.

Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.


How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.


I can't imagine a stormwolf with Ulric and Lukas plus blood claws surviving long enough to move forward and then unload the next turn. It is just too dangerous not to focus on and kill. I would probably put them in separate 9 man squads in 2 different rhinos so it not as simple to shut them both down. A landraider might also work since they are much harder to kill, but they also cost a ton, so idk, but i tend to prefer to give the enemy 3-3 equal targets instead of 1 big one.

As for taking the characters in the first place, I would probably only take Lukas in a list with 20-30 blood claws, as he is just a little bit better than having a lord or a WGBL around, costs more, and only effects the blood claws so its not really worth it to have much else nearby compared to a lord or battle leader. Ulric seems decent, but it's probably not that easy to actually unlock his re-rolls to wound buff., meaning he might as well just be a normal footslogging wolf priest in most games. In general I think that Blood Claws are "good enough" without much more than a WGBL, and I don't want to spend a bunch of points on buffing a unit that charges in, blows something up, and then dies as easily as any other marines.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/20 23:38:00


Post by: Dakka Wolf


crouching lictor wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.


Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.

Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.


How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.


So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/21 00:04:37


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Dakka Wolf wrote:

So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.


What's your dreadstar consist of again? I had bjorn and two axe noughts and they were all quite tanky. However I realized bjorn has no invulnerable save!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/21 00:40:01


Post by: Anpu42


jcd386 wrote:
Spoiler:
crouching lictor wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.


Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.

Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.


How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.


I can't imagine a stormwolf with Ulric and Lukas plus blood claws surviving long enough to move forward and then unload the next turn. It is just too dangerous not to focus on and kill. I would probably put them in separate 9 man squads in 2 different rhinos so it not as simple to shut them both down. A landraider might also work since they are much harder to kill, but they also cost a ton, so idk, but i tend to prefer to give the enemy 3-3 equal targets instead of 1 big one.

As for taking the characters in the first place, I would probably only take Lukas in a list with 20-30 blood claws, as he is just a little bit better than having a lord or a WGBL around, costs more, and only effects the blood claws so its not really worth it to have much else nearby compared to a lord or battle leader. Ulric seems decent, but it's probably not that easy to actually unlock his re-rolls to wound buff., meaning he might as well just be a normal footslogging wolf priest in most games. In general I think that Blood Claws are "good enough" without much more than a WGBL, and I don't want to spend a bunch of points on buffing a unit that charges in, blows something up, and then dies as easily as any other marines.

This is 8th Edition so it is a lot tougher than it was. With 14 Wounds and 3+ Save it should survive a few turns unless they have some real dedicated AAA and then they will be leaving a lot of other things alone to kill it off.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/21 05:47:31


Post by: pesce5279


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...


Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.


The notation is a bit odd. Land Raider is specifically mentioned to be able to carry Wulfen, however nowhere else can I see a restriction for Wulfen and what transport they can occupy. Drop Pods allow Infantry and Wulfen are infantry... The restriction is pretty implicit if you ask me.


I viewed it as listing the only things that can carry Wulfen from the regular Space Marines entry. It's listing what we can use from the regular SM armory, then lists what from that armory may transport Wulfen. As that key word won't show up in regular SM data sheets. Especially since they're treated like Terminators for the Land Raider and you can't take Terminators in a drop pod. So while it doesn't explicitly stop you from taking them in a Dpod... I think RAI would say you can't take one. Otherwise you could take them in a Rhino or Razorback.


So the blurb about the LR in the beginning of the SW section states "These vehicles can also transport Wulfen. Each Wulfen model takes the space of two other models". I think this is meant to be added onto the regular LR ruling of "...each Jump Pack or Terminator model takes the space of two other models..." to make it become "...each Jump Pack, Terminator, or Wulfen model takes the space of two other models..."

Even though they are listed as Infantry, I'm pretty sure you can't take drop pods or rhinos because, for example with the Stormfang, it explicitly states it can transport wulfen but it's still slightly unclear. Why wouldn't they just list wulfen with the "can not transport" portion if you couldn't? We can just chalk this up to good ole' GW writing.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/21 09:37:03


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:

So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.


What's your dreadstar consist of again? I had bjorn and two axe noughts and they were all quite tanky. However I realized bjorn has no invulnerable save!


Three Shield Dreads in a triangle with loaded Long Fangs and an Iron Priest or two between them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
pesce5279 wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Aetare wrote:
Are you having the wulfen start in the drop pod? Even with the re-roll buff on the charge they may not make it in their first turn, and they don't have any shooting options unfortunately. Otherwise drop pods got very expensive this edition...


Wulfen, sadly, cannot be taken in a drop pod. Least that's what I'm seeing.


The notation is a bit odd. Land Raider is specifically mentioned to be able to carry Wulfen, however nowhere else can I see a restriction for Wulfen and what transport they can occupy. Drop Pods allow Infantry and Wulfen are infantry... The restriction is pretty implicit if you ask me.


I viewed it as listing the only things that can carry Wulfen from the regular Space Marines entry. It's listing what we can use from the regular SM armory, then lists what from that armory may transport Wulfen. As that key word won't show up in regular SM data sheets. Especially since they're treated like Terminators for the Land Raider and you can't take Terminators in a drop pod. So while it doesn't explicitly stop you from taking them in a Dpod... I think RAI would say you can't take one. Otherwise you could take them in a Rhino or Razorback.


So the blurb about the LR in the beginning of the SW section states "These vehicles can also transport Wulfen. Each Wulfen model takes the space of two other models". I think this is meant to be added onto the regular LR ruling of "...each Jump Pack or Terminator model takes the space of two other models..." to make it become "...each Jump Pack, Terminator, or Wulfen model takes the space of two other models..."

Even though they are listed as Infantry, I'm pretty sure you can't take drop pods or rhinos because, for example with the Stormfang, it explicitly states it can transport wulfen but it's still slightly unclear. Why wouldn't they just list wulfen with the "can not transport" portion if you couldn't? We can just chalk this up to good ole' GW writing.


Can't we always - check out some of the unit photos for the Space Wolves in Index: Imperium 1, complete with no longer legal loadouts.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/21 11:28:17


Post by: Blackie


 Dakka Wolf wrote:


So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.


Main problem with my army is that I don't have any other vehicle than a stormwolf and 3 pods. I hate SM vehicles and no way I would use them With the new codex I'm focussed around a list with 10 thunderwolves (eventually promoting one of them as an HQ), a rune priest on bike, 15 wulfen and 5 long fangs. In order to have more CP I need to field some troops and I'm oriented in min grey hunters squads as I don't have many points left. Basically the same list that I used to play in 7th without the grey hunters in drop pods joined by the wyrdstorm brotherhood, but only with fewer troop models which are footslogging now.

Alternatively I'd like to play a list with all my infantries models, 15 blood claws and 3x10 grey hunters other than long fangs. This way I wouldn't have enough points for both TWC and wulfen, and I guess I will be forced to ditch the thunderwolves. In fact with 15 wulfen, ulrik and a rune priest on bike I'm already at 1995 points, without lukas though. Looks like a 100% fluffy list, no chance to compete against any decent list.

I'm also considering to add a second unit of long fangs, lascannons this time, and a couple of dreads, which looks way better now. Maybe a land raider crusader to deliver the big blob but I'm not fond of the model and I would buy it only with a significant price cut.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/21 13:38:50


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Blackie wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:


So so.
People usually focus on the toys like TWC, Wulfen, Characters.
All of my opponents to date have been FLGS buddies so some of them know me well enough to see what I emphasise before it hits the field.


Main problem with my army is that I don't have any other vehicle than a stormwolf and 3 pods. I hate SM vehicles and no way I would use them With the new codex I'm focussed around a list with 10 thunderwolves (eventually promoting one of them as an HQ), a rune priest on bike, 15 wulfen and 5 long fangs. In order to have more CP I need to field some troops and I'm oriented in min grey hunters squads as I don't have many points left. Basically the same list that I used to play in 7th without the grey hunters in drop pods joined by the wyrdstorm brotherhood, but only with fewer troop models which are footslogging now.

Alternatively I'd like to play a list with all my infantries models, 15 blood claws and 3x10 grey hunters other than long fangs. This way I wouldn't have enough points for both TWC and wulfen, and I guess I will be forced to ditch the thunderwolves. In fact with 15 wulfen, ulrik and a rune priest on bike I'm already at 1995 points, without lukas though. Looks like a 100% fluffy list, no chance to compete against any decent list.

I'm also considering to add a second unit of long fangs, lascannons this time, and a couple of dreads, which looks way better now. Maybe a land raider crusader to deliver the big blob but I'm not fond of the model and I would buy it only with a significant price cut.


Wolf Scouts mate.
Wolf Scouts can pseudo fill the role of both Long Fangs and Grey Hunters - they don't need Drop Pods and they cost less than either.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/22 02:48:40


Post by: KillaCam


Has anyone noticed who in our army can take melta bombs? I can't seem to find them even mentioned it the space wolves section. I want to run a very combat oriented army and was hoping my pack leaders could take them.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/22 03:25:47


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Trying to squeeze a battalion detachment
So far I have
HQ
- 3x WGBL 180pts
Troops
- 3x Blood Claws 195
- 3x Grey Hunters 210
Elites
- 3x Wolf Scouts 165
Heavy Support
- 3x Long Fangs 225
Fast Attack
- 3x Sky Claws 240

Grand total of 1215 points
Any ideas for fleshing it out to a 2000 point list?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 11:45:27


Post by: Northern85Star


I think i've got it. An unfluffy, dishonourable approach, but this is the cheapest, most points effective way to bring fiery death IMO.

5 x WG w/ jumpacks, combi-melta, SS and chainsaw. 225 pts. 5 x melta on deepstrike, 3+ invul on all, 3 attacks in melee, 12" move (12"+12"+D6" effective range).

50 pts cheaper than 5 x WG w/ TDA combi-melta, powersword for: -1 W, +1 A, no -3 rend, +7" move, 1 less armor, and 3+ invul instead of 5+. Can also disengage and shoot in the same round.

Seems like to way to go to maximize loadout. Strictly better specialized for the job of hunting tanks.

Pretty crazy that WG can exchange their pistol for a 5 pts 3+ invul save in the SS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is probably an error, since WGBL can't select a similar loadout.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 12:42:51


Post by: kodos


For the unfluffy stuff, add Wolfguard on Bikes with Kombimelter and Stormshield
5 x = 290 points, 14+6+12 effective Range and if needed can do 15 Bolter shots (or 10 on a different target)

But I always wanted to build a unit of WolfGuard with Jump Packs using the BA Wings


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 12:58:41


Post by: Northern85Star


Kind of a failure on GWs side to give space wolves the best assault marine unit, fluff considered xD


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 13:22:01


Post by: kodos


It was already the best in 7th but using a Drop Pod was just the better option for it.

Now it is more like the question using Jump Packs to get fly or Bikes for more speed (I would gor for WG with jump packs and Swiftclaws instead of WG on Bikes and Skyclaws)


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 15:16:41


Post by: ryzouken


Anybody got an opinion on a max dreadnought list? Something like 2 vanguard detachments at 2000 points with HQs of Bjorn and an iron priest and the rest consisting of 11 dreadnoughts. My preliminary build is 10 with heavy plasma cannons, wolf claws, and storm bolters with the 11th carrying an assault cannon. I'm thinking of changing things up a bit, wanted to see your opinions.

My thought is to run them in a loose block formation with Bjorn in the middle, keeping 3" separation in case of exploding dreadnoughts with the iron priest running around and repairing when he can. Gave him a thunderwolf to let him keep up with the dreadblock's 8" move.

The loose block means I'll only get Bjorn's aura for 8 dreads, so I'm considering changing the armaments for the remainder for long range.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 15:50:35


Post by: LeeAsh


Hi guys. I've been playing wolves for years semi competitive but mainly friendly.
After reading through here is my two pence worth

All dred list / Thunderwolves heavy list. - Your opponent sits up in ruins or buildings and you can't get to them. I had this the other night and the bystanders thought it was hilarious as my wolves just ran round chasing their tails getting picked off by shooting.

Wulfen heavy - 1 bad turn of armour saves ruins the game. Seems obvious but it can so easily happen. I had two units move forward supported by TWC. Only two models made it to combat and my game was over turn 2

I've had the best success with a balanced list.

5 Wulfen - 2 th/ss, 2axes +leader
3 TWC with th/ss

These are buffed by

Wolf priest jump pack
WGBL with jump pack
Rune priest with jump pack for cover spell

Between them they take out anything

2 units of skyclaws run round grabbing objectives/supporting Wulfen. I keep another WGBL with a jump nearby pack to buff.
Each has a powerfist. So far one of these is a hero taking down an Archeon and Sammiel by himself!

Ven Dred with tl autocannon and assualt cannon
Predator with autocannon and lascannons
Long fangs - 2las/2missile

These sit back and hit the big stuf. Wiith combined fire I have so far been reliably taking down a 10 wound model per turn and stripping wounds from others depending on how well my D6 damage rolls go

A unit of scouts with sniper have been stripping a wound or two where needed

Finally a landraider crusader gives me the option to run my Wulfen forward. However this paints a big X on it and doesn't get far. But I keep it for the option depending on terrain, enemy and mission etc. And of course it's gonna mess up a horde unit before getting bogged down in combat

Most importantly it's a fun list to play with something to do in each phase

I appreciate any thoughts


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 16:57:04


Post by: kodos


ryzouken wrote:
Anybody got an opinion on a max dreadnought list?

You want Björn, at least 2 Dreads with Axe and Shield and 2+ Dreads with 2 twin Autocannons.
Laser or Plasma with Wolfclaws against heavy targets.

1-2 Wolfpriest on Thunderwolf for support and 1-2 Runepriest for Cover would be good support

Also adding a Knight Crusader is an option at 2k


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/24 17:55:32


Post by: Karhedron


ArmchairArbiter wrote:

What's your dreadstar consist of again? I had bjorn and two axe noughts and they were all quite tanky. However I realized bjorn has no invulnerable save!

That is a lot less important than it used to be. Bjorn is a character and so he cannot be shot at unless he is the closest target. Keep the shield Dreads slightly in front and they can cover for Bjorn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally I am liking the Long Fangs rerolling 1s when they focus fire without a Character nearby. I plan to abuse this with 5 plasma cannons and overcharge them anytime they fire at anything tougher than basic infantry.

I have always had an unhealthy fondness for plasma!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/25 01:12:54


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Northern85Star wrote:
I think i've got it. An unfluffy, dishonourable approach, but this is the cheapest, most points effective way to bring fiery death IMO.

5 x WG w/ jumpacks, combi-melta, SS and chainsaw. 225 pts. 5 x melta on deepstrike, 3+ invul on all, 3 attacks in melee, 12" move (12"+12"+D6" effective range).

50 pts cheaper than 5 x WG w/ TDA combi-melta, powersword for: -1 W, +1 A, no -3 rend, +7" move, 1 less armor, and 3+ invul instead of 5+. Can also disengage and shoot in the same round.

Seems like to way to go to maximize loadout. Strictly better specialized for the job of hunting tanks.

Pretty crazy that WG can exchange their pistol for a 5 pts 3+ invul save in the SS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is probably an error, since WGBL can't select a similar loadout.


There is reason, models with one wound often can't get maximum benefit from save bonuses, look at Terminators in the last edition - cough up twenty points for a 2+ and 5++ save, roll a one and lose it all to a single las pistol shot.
With Command Points freak accidents like that are less likely but there's still that one time you lose both the model and the Command Point.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/25 22:56:19


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I picked up the new Forgeworld index for Astartes and the Lucius Drop pod still in! With no model it's another "use the regular pod" I guess.

So.. that changes my Dreadnought usage. Instead of covering for Bjorn I think i'd prefer to pod them in.

Haven't checked in on the thread in a couple days. A lot of good ideas coming up... the WG with jump packs especially seems nice.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/26 01:02:23


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
I picked up the new Forgeworld index for Astartes and the Lucius Drop pod still in! With no model it's another "use the regular pod" I guess.

So.. that changes my Dreadnought usage. Instead of covering for Bjorn I think i'd prefer to pod them in.

Haven't checked in on the thread in a couple days. A lot of good ideas coming up... the WG with jump packs especially seems nice.


Murderfang is back in the game!
How's the Lucius work in this edition? Auto Disembark or still an extra lot of Wounds?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/26 01:43:06


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
I picked up the new Forgeworld index for Astartes and the Lucius Drop pod still in! With no model it's another "use the regular pod" I guess.

So.. that changes my Dreadnought usage. Instead of covering for Bjorn I think i'd prefer to pod them in.

Haven't checked in on the thread in a couple days. A lot of good ideas coming up... the WG with jump packs especially seems nice.


Murderfang is back in the game!
How's the Lucius work in this edition? Auto Disembark or still an extra lot of Wounds?


The dreadnought inside must immediately disembark like a normal pod. It can also only carry 1 dreadnought unit. It actually specifies that it may only carry a dreadnought now as well. It doesn't come with any weapons or anything either. It costs 120 points.

I feel like 120 points isn't a terrible investment for slamming a couple axe and board dreads into someones face.



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/26 07:00:42


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
I picked up the new Forgeworld index for Astartes and the Lucius Drop pod still in! With no model it's another "use the regular pod" I guess.

So.. that changes my Dreadnought usage. Instead of covering for Bjorn I think i'd prefer to pod them in.

Haven't checked in on the thread in a couple days. A lot of good ideas coming up... the WG with jump packs especially seems nice.


Murderfang is back in the game!
How's the Lucius work in this edition? Auto Disembark or still an extra lot of Wounds?


The dreadnought inside must immediately disembark like a normal pod. It can also only carry 1 dreadnought unit. It actually specifies that it may only carry a dreadnought now as well. It doesn't come with any weapons or anything either. It costs 120 points.

I feel like 120 points isn't a terrible investment for slamming a couple axe and board dreads into someones face.



The Lucius only ever carried Dreads, you don't use them for slamming the Dread in their face in this edition - since they arrive when you want them to between turns one and the end of your turn three movement phase you have a lot more flexibility to put them down where they present the most threat, and since Heavy Flamers fall an inch short of the enemy you're putting them down differently too, now you drop them in response to your opponent's movements - forcing them to keep bunched until the Dread lands or suffering it tearing into their loose ends.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 00:11:52


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Ah that's right they did.

On a secondary note, I know anpu did a review of the wolf guard terminators but how does everyone feel about running them? I'm currently torn between pure stormshield thunderhammer or having al the regular guys use frost axes while the squad leader uses a thunderhammer and pairing them with arjac.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 04:33:24


Post by: Gibs55


What loadout is best for Wulfen and do you transport in a land-raider or something or just on foot?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 05:13:11


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I suppose both of the last two questions are difficult because they're subjective.

I personally run my wulfen with 2 th/ss, 2 great axes and the pack leader. I also run them on foot. I'm looking at putting them into a landraider but... not sure.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 06:54:31


Post by: Blackie


I run 2th/ss, 2 axes and a leader, always on foot, too. I've magnetized the guys with the axes in order to have the possibility to equip them with th/ss or claws. At least two with th/ss are mandatory for the invuln, and you must include a pack leader with claws, the remaining ones are optional.

About land raiders, I think I will keep my wulfen footsloggers, if I have to buy a big transport it will be a crusader carrying a blob of blood claws, which are quite improved now.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 07:32:00


Post by: Dakka Wolf


My Wulfen take two TH/SS and one to three Frost Claws, never much cared for the Axe - Never faced the right models I guess.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 09:16:28


Post by: Karhedron


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
On a secondary note, I know anpu did a review of the wolf guard terminators but how does everyone feel about running them? I'm currently torn between pure stormshield thunderhammer or having al the regular guys use frost axes while the squad leader uses a thunderhammer and pairing them with arjac.

Still making up my mind. Probably 2 TH/SS and 3 with SS and either a single Wolf Claw or a frost weapon. Saves quite a few points and just as effective against infantry while only losing a bit vs tough targets.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 13:52:30


Post by: Northern85Star


I would save points by taking wolf claws. It's already an expensive unit, instead focusing on utilizing their aura instead of making a strong unit even stronger.

And something entirely different: wolf priest and lone wolves with storm shield sounds fun. If they're killed and get back up, you heal them. Not sure they do enough damage though, but if the wolf priest doesnt die they're nearly unkillable in TDA (2+/3++/4+revive). Expensive though.

Assassins are really cheap characters for what they do! Consider allying. They can wreak havoc while the wolves close in.

Iron priests: ALWAYS on bike. For 9 pts you get +1 W, +1 T, 14" move and twin bolters. A bargain. Thunderwolf is nice due to the iron priests 2+ WS, but i think the points are better spend elsewhere, especially since the iron priest is best used against vehicles (certainly not against models with high rend).

Wolf Lord: Always gear your wolf lord with combi weapon to use his 2+ BS. If you want all melee character, a WGBL is stronger in melee with SS (SS on Lord is a waste due to Belt of Russ).

Wolf priest with thunderwolves is a must? Real strong combo.

Jet packs are cheap ways to give characters with default invul save mobility and deepstrike.

That's all i could come up with for now This is based on mathhammering.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/27 15:35:32


Post by: Ragnar Blackmane


Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:

- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.

- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.

- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.

- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).

- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below

- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.

- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.

- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.

- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.

- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...

- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.

- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---

Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter

or

2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter


Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 00:47:16


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Spoiler:
Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:

- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.

- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.

- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.

- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).

- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below

- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.

- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.

- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.

- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.

- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...

- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.

- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---

Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter

or

2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter



Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .



I think you did good.
Storm Bolters are beyond amazing in this edition, they give us firepower that makes Tau and Imperial Guard re-think their purpose in life.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 02:04:33


Post by: Comely


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Spoiler:
Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:

- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.

- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.

- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.

- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).

- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below

- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.

- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.

- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.

- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.

- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...

- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.

- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---

Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter

or

2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter



Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .



I think you did good.
Storm Bolters are beyond amazing in this edition, they give us firepower that makes Tau and Imperial Guard re-think their purpose in life.


Im currently wondering the best way to utilize them. I keep thinking wolfguard bikers with storm bolters and shields are deadly. 41 points a head, 8 shots each at 12 inches and the move to get there. If they get charged they still have thier chain swords so they are still 3 attacks each.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 03:33:52


Post by: ZergSmasher


How do people feel about Swiftclaws in 8th? I recently purchased some bike models from the used bin at my FLGS. The bikes themselves are built already, but not the riders. I was debating using them as Swiftclaws, making one of them a Wolf Guard Bike Leader to bring a frost weapon (the squad was going to be tooled for melee). Are they any good?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 03:35:20


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Comely wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Spoiler:
Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:

- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.

- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.

- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.

- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).

- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below

- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.

- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.

- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.

- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.

- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...

- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.

- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---

Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter

or

2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter



Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .



I think you did good.
Storm Bolters are beyond amazing in this edition, they give us firepower that makes Tau and Imperial Guard re-think their purpose in life.


Im currently wondering the best way to utilize them. I keep thinking wolfguard bikers with storm bolters and shields are deadly. 41 points a head, 8 shots each at 12 inches and the move to get there. If they get charged they still have thier chain swords so they are still 3 attacks each.


Depends on the opponent - WGBikers are amazing all-rounders, they throw down enormous amounts of dice.
They aren't heavy hitters though - I'd be hunting Infantry and hoards early game then using them to throw more dice at MCs and Vehicles in the late game.
I think Razerbacks with Assault Cannons and Storm Bolters will be my dedicated big game hunters.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 06:26:05


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Looks like Wolves placed high in the first GT! Anyone know what his list is?

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/30xgpw4c


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 08:43:32


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Looks like Wolves placed high in the first GT! Anyone know what his list is?

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/30xgpw4c


One out of two, the other nabbed the wooden spoon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
How do people feel about Swiftclaws in 8th? I recently purchased some bike models from the used bin at my FLGS. The bikes themselves are built already, but not the riders. I was debating using them as Swiftclaws, making one of them a Wolf Guard Bike Leader to bring a frost weapon (the squad was going to be tooled for melee). Are they any good?


Swiftclaws aren't bad there are just better things in the same roll. If you're looking to save a hundred points I'd grab some Swiftclaws.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 08:56:57


Post by: Karhedron


 ZergSmasher wrote:
How do people feel about Swiftclaws in 8th? I recently purchased some bike models from the used bin at my FLGS. The bikes themselves are built already, but not the riders. I was debating using them as Swiftclaws, making one of them a Wolf Guard Bike Leader to bring a frost weapon (the squad was going to be tooled for melee). Are they any good?

Swiftclaws are OK but I would rather build them as Wolf Guard bikers. Either build them with storm bolters for massed horde-clearance or tool them up with frost weapons and a few TH/SS. Add a Wolf Priest on bike to patch them up and lead them and voila!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 09:10:48


Post by: Blackie


Stormbolters are amazing, I agree, they're way undercosted. But how can you spam them?

Other than bikers, which I'm not going to buy.

I'd like to give those stormbolters to all pack leaders but they are 3-6 at most. And a wolf guard unit on foot (or embarked in some vehicles) isn't cheap, having more grey hunters is better IMHO.

I also agree with ragnar about thunderwolves but I also think that a single thunder hammer in each squad should find a room. It's quite cheap and extreme deadly.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 09:18:47


Post by: Karhedron


 Blackie wrote:
And a wolf guard unit on foot (or embarked in some vehicles) isn't cheap, having more grey hunters is better IMHO.

For 2 points more than a Grey Hunter you can get a PAWG who has an extra attack and an extra point of Ld (meaning that you no longer have to worry about keeping a Pack Leader alive).

But more importantly you can now customise the squad however you want. A squad of plasma gunners to accompany Bjorn or a WL for rerolling 1s. some frost weapons and TH/SS in a Rhino or Land Raider hit hard. Spam storm bolters for dakka.

I agree that if you are just running bolter, BP and chainsword then the advantage is modest (although 2 points for +1A is not bad) but the real advantage is the opportunity to tool up a squad for whatever role you want. And with access to the Vanguard Detachment, we no longer have to run 3+ Troops unless you specifically want those extra CPs.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 10:58:58


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Blackie wrote:
Stormbolters are amazing, I agree, they're way undercosted. But how can you spam them?

Other than bikers, which I'm not going to buy.

I'd like to give those stormbolters to all pack leaders but they are 3-6 at most. And a wolf guard unit on foot (or embarked in some vehicles) isn't cheap, having more grey hunters is better IMHO.

I also agree with ragnar about thunderwolves but I also think that a single thunder hammer in each squad should find a room. It's quite cheap and extreme deadly.


Wolf Guard Terminators?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 11:15:56


Post by: biggie_reg


Wolf Guard Termies aren't a unit that you can cheaply spam, though we have better reason to have them equipped with storm bolsters now that they doubled in firepower


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 11:33:43


Post by: baastex


How about wolfguard bikers with stormshields and stormbolters ?

For 10 men 80 schots in 12 inches and are still scary in ccb for geq/meq units


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 13:20:43


Post by: crouching lictor


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Looks like Wolves placed high in the first GT! Anyone know what his list is?

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/30xgpw4c


The list is cut off on Best Coast Pairing but it looks like he used a battalion and vanguard detachment with blood claws, a wolf priest, rune priest, two las/missile dreads, storm wolf, lukas, wulfen, and a Land Raider Crusader. The other wolf player didn't have a list posted.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 13:28:28


Post by: jcd386


I think putting extra storm bolters on razorbacks, HQs, Rhinos, terminators, and possibly bikes is the way to go.

I'm not 100% that PAWG are worth putting too many points into because of how easily they die, even with storm shields 1 wound means losing a lot of points per failed save. Once they get out of a transport they need to blow up enough things to be worth it, or tie up enough enemy units in close combat to limit the shooting back next turn. And my issue with them is they don't assault much better than the same points worth of blood claws.



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/28 13:38:39


Post by: Weazel


Never been much of a fan of bikers, but after reading more recent posts here I'm convinced I need two 5man WG bike squads with storm bolters and storm shields. The amount of dakka is just insane. And they can easily be tooled with a power weapon or two so they're no slouches in CC either.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/29 02:36:26


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 biggie_reg wrote:
Wolf Guard Termies aren't a unit that you can cheaply spam, though we have better reason to have them equipped with storm bolsters now that they doubled in firepower


Not truly cheaply but at 185 points for five with Storm Bolters and Power Swords they aren't bad value either and they're stupidly flexible - like Wolf Guard with Jump-Packs and Skyclaws they can be dropped in Rapid-Fire range, unlike Jump-Guard and Skyclaws they are likely to survive EWO triggers to hammer their twenty shots into the enemy, admittedly, once you have dropped them they are limited to 5" movement but they're still not Immobile, plant them between units you want to shoot and objectives that will force your opponent to divert forces to defend then march over, sit on them and bunker down. Ten ap-3 melee attacks aren't to be laughed off either, anyyhing that wants to dislodge them will have to have the bollocks to pass through Storm Bolters and Power Swords to contest that objective, easing pressure off your lines.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/29 04:06:43


Post by: jy2


Battle report completed. I ran a list consisting of Space Wolves Dreadnoughts. Thought I'd share the tactics of the army with you.


2K 8th ITC Battle - The Walking Dread Space Wolves vs Admech


Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/29 22:20:50


Post by: Northern85Star


 jy2 wrote:
Battle report completed. I ran a list consisting of Space Wolves Dreadnoughts. Thought I'd share the tactics of the army with you.


2K 8th ITC Battle - The Walking Dread Space Wolves vs Admech


Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.



Been thinking of dread heavy list too, but with 2-3 ironpriests on foot to heal the dreads, while the wolf priest heals the iron priests if they take damage. Do you think iron priests would benefit your army? Or is the D3 heal per model too little?

My idea was to let blizz shield dreads encircle the iron priests and wolf priest in a 6" radius from the wolf priest. Venerable dreads have 6+ regen on every unsaved wound, so they should get atleast 1 W back from that, then D3 from the iron priests which again benefits from the blizz shield and regen, if not killed in one turn, of course.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/29 23:10:51


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Northern85Star wrote:
 jy2 wrote:
Battle report completed. I ran a list consisting of Space Wolves Dreadnoughts. Thought I'd share the tactics of the army with you.


2K 8th ITC Battle - The Walking Dread Space Wolves vs Admech


Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.



Been thinking of dread heavy list too, but with 2-3 ironpriests on foot to heal the dreads, while the wolf priest heals the iron priests if they take damage. Do you think iron priests would benefit your army? Or is the D3 heal per model too little?

My idea was to let blizz shield dreads encircle the iron priests and wolf priest in a 6" radius from the wolf priest. Venerable dreads have 6+ regen on every unsaved wound, so they should get atleast 1 W back from that, then D3 from the iron priests which again benefits from the blizz shield and regen, if not killed in one turn, of course.


Iron Priests are amazing, it's worth keeping something quick and melee focused nearby, most opponents will try to cut the priest away from the dreads, you'll need to cut it or the Dread free every turn or two.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/29 23:21:56


Post by: Northern85Star


Thanks! With 6 dreads encircling the HQ, there's still lots of points left. Maybe run a couple of the WG bike squat that's been talked about, screened by the deathstar, to take off when enemies are near to get directly into haf range and fire 40 bolt shots at whatever is trying to cut the formation. Alternatively to fill gaps in the formation. Wolf priest can heal the bikers too.

Im interested in hearing what people think is generally strongest between 5 WG bikes and 3 TWC (both with SS on every model), as these units are roughly the same points cost.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/30 02:11:29


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Northern85Star wrote:
Thanks! With 6 dreads encircling the HQ, there's still lots of points left. Maybe run a couple of the WG bike squat that's been talked about, screened by the deathstar, to take off when enemies are near to get directly into haf range and fire 40 bolt shots at whatever is trying to cut the formation. Alternatively to fill gaps in the formation. Wolf priest can heal the bikers too.

Im interested in hearing what people think is generally strongest between 5 WG bikes and 3 TWC (both with SS on every model), as these units are roughly the same points cost.


In my opinion Wolf Guard Bikers are more flexible but TWC respond better to buff auras - Having three wounds each means a Wolf Priest has more chance of saving models, they can chew through blob units and wound most big things naturally on a 5+, a little bit on the costly side but more than capable.
WGB on the other hand are stupidly mobile bolter platforms, capable in melee but nothing special - I use them for thinning MSU that don't recover numbers.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/30 02:36:37


Post by: cegorach


Hey folks, as this seems to be one of the best collection of people who know their SW, I've got a few questions I hope you can help with. I'm coming back to 40k after being away more than 20 years and picked up a bunch of SW second hand. I'm hoping you folks could suggest ways to tool out my forces, expand them, and then some ideas of what to do with them

What I have:

x10 BC/GH on sprue
5 x PAWG - 2x Claws, 1 x TH/SS, 2 x BP/CS
TWC SS + Claws
TWC SS + TH
TWC SS + TH
TWC SS + Claws
TDA Wolf Lord SB/PS
4 longfangs + ancient - 2x lascannon, 1x Missile launcher, 1 x plasma cannon, 1 x plasma gun
5x TDA WG (or lone wolves I guess) - SB Chainfist, Flamer Pfist, TH Stormbolter, SB Pfist, SB chainfist
5x PAWG - SS + TH, Frost Axe, 2x claws, TH + SS, 2x claws
Ulrik
Iron priest
17 GH/BC assembled.
Land Raider Crusader
Drop pod
3 x Rhinos


I'm thinking of picking up a pair of Ven Dreads with axe/shield, Bjorn, some scouts, Arjac, Bikes (for rune/wolf/iron priests), runepriest and then I'm a bit lost. Maybe Wulfen to put in the Landraider (unless that's too many eggs in one basket)

The thinking is to be able to construct multiple lists that have BC/GH in Rhinos as objective runners, Bjorn/dreads or TWC as roving beatsticks/fire magnets, and then WG as deep strikers.

But I really have no idea, as it's been a while. Any feedback welcome


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/06/30 03:06:16


Post by: jy2


Northern85Star wrote:
 jy2 wrote:
Battle report completed. I ran a list consisting of Space Wolves Dreadnoughts. Thought I'd share the tactics of the army with you.


2K 8th ITC Battle - The Walking Dread Space Wolves vs Admech


Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.



Been thinking of dread heavy list too, but with 2-3 ironpriests on foot to heal the dreads, while the wolf priest heals the iron priests if they take damage. Do you think iron priests would benefit your army? Or is the D3 heal per model too little?

My idea was to let blizz shield dreads encircle the iron priests and wolf priest in a 6" radius from the wolf priest. Venerable dreads have 6+ regen on every unsaved wound, so they should get atleast 1 W back from that, then D3 from the iron priests which again benefits from the blizz shield and regen, if not killed in one turn, of course.

Iron Priests can only buff 1 unit. I much prefer characters that can buff multiple units. Buffing multiple units > buffing 1 unit. You can run Iron Priests but don't overdo it by running several. Instead, look at HQ's that have "bubble-buffs" (i.e. force-multiplier units that buff multiple other units).

Also, experienced generals will have the tendency to focus down enemy units. Say you have 3 dreads and 3 iron priests. In your opponent's turn, he focus-fires and wipes out one of your dreads. Now you have 3 iron priests and only 2 dreads. The extra iron priest just became deadweight! Smart players will just focus down 1 dread at a time so that you either have nothing to heal or very minimal units that can be healed.



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/01 06:39:20


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I played two games tonight with my grey knights buddy. Decided on smaller 1500 point games. I thought I'd just make a 7th style murder list (twc, wulfen, WGBL on TWC and longfangs) to see how it does in 8th since I've only played one game of 8th so far.

I absolutely murdered him... twice. I rocked his LR Crusader with Longfang lascannon fire(just 2 of them) and then surrounded it with fully intact TWC and Wulfen and beat it to death with hammers and great axes. Since I had it surrounded Draigo, the Paladin 5 man squad and the apothecary all died because they couldn't be placed anywhere and not be within 1" of me @.@.

I know the list isn't viable as an all comers list but I found the Wulfen to be absolutely BRUTAL and survivable beyond anything I imagined. The storm shield spam on my TWC was more effective than ever as well with hot dice rolls and 3 wounds on the TWC now. Frost swords are so cheap I was able to put them on all of them. They killed a dreadnight after dying too.

Just wanted to share my surprise with TWC and Wulfen still being so brutal, I felt they weren't going to be as good. With higher point games and heavy support raining fire to support them I'm thinking of using them more again.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/01 08:16:17


Post by: Weazel


Sad to hear Wulfen are so great, since I don't particularly love the models. Are they notably better than TWC? Or is it the buff bubble that makes them so valuable?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/01 18:54:06


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Weazel wrote:
Sad to hear Wulfen are so great, since I don't particularly love the models. Are they notably better than TWC? Or is it the buff bubble that makes them so valuable?


I felt the same until I thought of the Wulfen as the (fantasized) version of the "berserker rage" that Odin would bestow upon particular warriors during a battle and it kind of grew on me for some reason lol. I like them now.

I don't think they're notably better than TWC. Part of what happened was they synergized so well together still. The TWC with frost swords was only a little more expensive then I'd like because I gave the pack leader a thunder hammer. With good advance rolls though.. Wulfen are just as fast and just as deadly, if not more deadly, than the TWC. Least that's how it felt. The extra attacks + reroll wounds from the WGBL was a big factor as well though.

I'm fairly sure the murder list I ran would struggle against someone who brought a more balanced list (possibly). I only had the longfangs and skyclaws to deal with something like flyers.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/01 19:35:20


Post by: Ragnar69


A WGBL with jump pack costs only 3 points more than without! That's surely an error, but we should enjoy it while it lasts )

I am thinking about packing 2 small squads of BCs with WGPLs and a WGBL in a Crusader.

Another good combo is a fast Wolf Priest with 1 or 2 units of Fenrisian Wolves. You can use them to shield your TWC, Wulfen or transports from unwanted charges and buff them at the same time.

It's also worth noting that there are some serious differences between building a list with points or with power.
I.e. 10 GHs incl. WGPL is the same cost as without in points, but in power there is a difference of 2. Crusaders cost about the same in points as a Stormwolf, but noticably more in power.
10 BCs in a Rhino cost way more points than 10 GHs on foot, but only 1 power more.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/01 22:39:10


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Weazel wrote:
Sad to hear Wulfen are so great, since I don't particularly love the models. Are they notably better than TWC? Or is it the buff bubble that makes them so valuable?


I find paint jobs matter a great deal.
I know three people who run Wulfen and two of them constantly get mocked for their Wulfen looking like monkeys - oh, and the Karate-kid pose of their leader.
My leader sits on the FLGS owner's shelf along with MC and A, they won me a modelling/painting competition.
Anyway, back to business. The models on the box look like monkeys or apes and most people paint theirs like the ones on the box.
Paint your Wulfen the same way you paint your TWC with the face and hands being the same or very similar to the rest of the furry parts, the classic wolfman job doesn't work because he looks like a monkey too, you gotta nab your inspiration from the Howling, Van Helsing and Underworld.

As for the Wulfen on the battlefield their best place is alongside the TWC not replacing them. Wulfen are beasts in their own right, they have access to S10 attacks that the TWC can no longer get, the shields cost them a puny five poins a model while TWC cough up three times that plus they let any non-wulfen or non-wolf Space Wolves model nearby re-roll charges or give them an extra attack.
Admittedly, they make beasts out of Wolf Guard Bikers.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/02 01:15:37


Post by: Gibs55


Is it worth putting Wulfen in a Land Raider?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/02 02:29:38


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Gibs55 wrote:
Is it worth putting Wulfen in a Land Raider?


Depends on what your opponent has to shoot with.
If they're packing squads of bolters or can dish up masses of mortal wounds load up the Land Raider, if they're packing a small number of single wound, multi-damage weaponry or are too close to get a solid round of shooting foot slog those bad boys and reap the aura benifits.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/02 12:01:39


Post by: kodos


I don't like the new Wulfen too
bad thing I just have 3 models of the original ones.

Questions is should I convert Marine size Wulfen or the new sized Wulfen.
Would either use the Puppets War bodies for Marines size or Mantics Werewolfs for the large version


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/02 19:52:45


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Out of question... on Games Workshop site there is no stand alone Logan model. Do you have to buy him on his sleigh.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/02 20:50:28


Post by: kodos


yes, or get the old metal one on ebay


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/02 23:18:55


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 kodos wrote:
I don't like the new Wulfen too
bad thing I just have 3 models of the original ones.

Questions is should I convert Marine size Wulfen or the new sized Wulfen.
Would either use the Puppets War bodies for Marines size or Mantics Werewolfs for the large version


The Wulfen curse affects anyone and everyone so there's no reason not to have mixed sizes, you just have to get some extra 40mm bases.
Terminators work best for looks if you have Wulfen sprues.
I got two Wulfen kits and two Terminator kits and kit-bashed five Wulfen packs that I'm happy with.
If you dislike the Wulfen models so much that that is still not an option I'd suggest looking into AoS Chaos ranges like Chaos Blood Reavers and Kairic Acolytes, I've used Chaos Warriors and Ultramarine conversions to make my Space Wolves look a bit more "Viking" than "Wolfity Wolf" for a while, the rest of the kit gets converted to Wolf Scouts so nothing goes to waste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w95riiy9vwqtjwi/20170703_093121.jpg?dl=0
Regular Wulfen

https://www.dropbox.com/s/32cn10t9fdh4375/20170703_093149.jpg?dl=0
Vanilla Terminator Wulfen

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p6l3wccbtzs5bet/20170703_093233.jpg?dl=0
D&D Gnoll


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 06:28:30


Post by: kodos


My problem with the Wulfen kit is more with the legs/poses.

I think of them more like Berserker Rage Marines instead of Chaos Spawns.
A classic Werewolf is something different and I would go for that one with the Wulfen of the 13th.
But the Karate Kid style is a no go.
And just for Bits it is too expensive for my taste


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 07:04:22


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 kodos wrote:
My problem with the Wulfen kit is more with the legs/poses.

I think of them more like Berserker Rage Marines instead of Chaos Spawns.
A classic Werewolf is something different and I would go for that one with the Wulfen of the 13th.
But the Karate Kid style is a no go.
And just for Bits it is too expensive for my taste


Chaos Blood Reavers and Kairic Acolytes are human.
Google Kairic Acolytes.
They're the same kit price as Wulfen, you get ten in a kit rather than five, they come with shields and axes, you can change some axe heads to hammer heads and your Space Wolves' bits box should have enough left over dangly stuff to Fenrisianise them - personally I'd change their heads too but those helmets look badass, maybe you can just stick some greenstuff braids or flying hair on to make them look wilder or give them wolf ears.
Wish I needed more Wulfen - I'd love to kit-bash the Acolytes in particular..


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 07:12:44


Post by: kodos


I just know the stuff from the starter set and there were too many not so easy to remove mutations
if the regular Box is better I will take a closer look


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 07:46:19


Post by: Dakka Wolf


What starter set?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 08:33:16


Post by: Blackie


The old metal wulfen need to be converted though as they have different wargear. And they're typically more expensive than the most recent models.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 08:39:10


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


The only one I don't like as much is as everyone else put it the "karate kid" pack leader. Even that one I've kind of grown to like... I just view him as jumping into the middle of the enemy/pouncing without fear or care for his own well being.

But as my GF says... I am an obnoxiously glass half-full person. @.@


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 10:04:20


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
The only one I don't like as much is as everyone else put it the "karate kid" pack leader. Even that one I've kind of grown to like... I just view him as jumping into the middle of the enemy/pouncing without fear or care for his own well being.

But as my GF says... I am an obnoxiously glass half-full person. @.@


The Sun shines out your arse.
The leader in an option anyway.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 10:58:15


Post by: kodos


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
What starter set?

The first AoS one


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 11:34:00


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Ahh, I was about to say, Wulfen never came in a starter set.
You can get the Acolytes in a kit of ten.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 12:18:32


Post by: Ragnar69


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
ArmchairArbiter wrote:
The only one I don't like as much is as everyone else put it the "karate kid" pack leader. Even that one I've kind of grown to like... I just view him as jumping into the middle of the enemy/pouncing without fear or care for his own well being.

But as my GF says... I am an obnoxiously glass half-full person. @.@


The Sun shines out your arse.
The leader in an option anyway.


1) the leaders pose is not supposed to be karate kid, it's supposed to be landing from a jump
2) there are alternate arms and legs for that model included to give it a completely different pose

Mixing Wulfen bits with he new Reivers could also be an idea


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 16:21:12


Post by: kodos


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ahh, I was about to say, Wulfen never came in a starter set.
You can get the Acolytes in a kit of ten.


I meant I know the Blood Reavers from the AoS starter set but there were too many models with mutations or Khorne Marks that were too complicated to remove.
So if the regular kit is better I will have a closer look.

But for now I prefer this bodies here as base for a conversion:
https://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=588


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/03 21:47:06


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 kodos wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ahh, I was about to say, Wulfen never came in a starter set.
You can get the Acolytes in a kit of ten.


I meant I know the Blood Reavers from the AoS starter set but there were too many models with mutations or Khorne Marks that were too complicated to remove.
So if the regular kit is better I will have a closer look.

But for now I prefer this bodies here as base for a conversion:
https://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=588


I never bothered removing a lot of them - I either filled them in with green-stuff or just covered them with dangly bits.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/04 12:17:41


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Anybody had much luck with the flyers?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/04 18:39:35


Post by: kodos


not really
Melter makes them too expensive and without they are no suitable gunships (not better than anything you get cheaper) while the Gunship itself can work but I did not find a unit 6 man unit worth transporting


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/04 19:04:09


Post by: crouching lictor


Six Wolf Guard in power armor with storm bolters puts out a decent amount of dakka within 12". You could use them to thin out infantry hordes before a charge or to sit on an objective.

The flyers themselves are ok, nothing special and expensive. I'd rather use a land raider.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/04 19:19:35


Post by: kodos


and what is the advantage to transport them with the flyer into 12" instead of a Razorback with AC or taking WG on Bike?

I see no unit that can take an advantage out of the up to 50" move of the Gunship
Even for a 6 Melter Squad it is better to just take Long Fangs with MM in a Pod (take it 2 times for the same prize as 1 squad with the gunship for similar firepower)


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/04 20:57:09


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I think the transport flyer seems to be worth it. Dropping a 8 man wulfen squad on someone's head is pretty brutal. And it has plenty of dakka.

It also can't get surrounded by the enemy like a land raider can if you're facing a fellow assault army.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/04 22:37:25


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Being able to "Drop" heavily armed units like Terminators, Wolf Scouts and Inceptors into enemy territory is kind of making me re-think every transport's viability.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/04 23:58:21


Post by: LegendaryEgo05


I am contemplating wolf guard terminators with a cheap load out of storm bolted/power sword deepstriking in with arjac. I feel like this unit is a good jack of all trades unit that can strike in shoot and be good at combat when dealing with hordes. Is this a good idea or is it better to take Ss/th?

2k list for reference

Arjac
WGBL on thunderwolf SS/frost axe

2 units of 10 GH with plasma gun (1 in Rhino)1
5 man blood claws

5 wolf guard storm bolted/sword

3 Thunderwolf cav 1ss/chain sword 2 with wolf claws

Las predator

Knight with Gatling cannon/battle cannon and middles on top


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 00:10:13


Post by: Dakka Wolf


LegendaryEgo05 wrote:
I am contemplating wolf guard terminators with a cheap load out of storm bolted/power sword deepstriking in with arjac. I feel like this unit is a good jack of all trades unit that can strike in shoot and be good at combat when dealing with hordes. Is this a good idea or is it better to take Ss/th?

2k list for reference

Arjac
WGBL on thunderwolf SS/frost axe

2 units of 10 GH with plasma gun (1 in Rhino)1
5 man blood claws

5 wolf guard storm bolted/sword

3 Thunderwolf cav 1ss/chain sword 2 with wolf claws

Las predator

Knight with Gatling cannon/battle cannon and middles on top


That is some heavy, HEAVY firepower.
Have you played many games with it yet? Looks like you'd be protecting the Knight and Pred an awful lot.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 00:58:37


Post by: LegendaryEgo05


Only two games, the predator has died both times. The goal is deepstrike termies and t wolves fly up the board so they have to choose to kill heavies or have elites up in their face. The problem is the knight isn't enough by itself if you run into spam so I feel the pred is needed.

I like the knight, the pred is good too but I'd like more points for another rhino or GH unit. However, with a knight you can't have everything. I was just curious about termies specifically because I like them as a TAC choice but wasn't sure if they were better optimized to guard arjac.

Nids got me for the loss, those monstrous creatures and gene stealers tore through the elites and the knight wasn't enough alone.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 01:58:44


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I personally am leaning towards two terminator units. A tax varient like you mentioned and a thunder hammer and atorm shield group to go with arjac. I feel like they'd be elite hunters with him and the rest could take on everything else.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 02:12:48


Post by: jcd386


For me the strength of arjac doesnt mesh too well with the unreliability of deep striking 9" assaults. He is expensive if it doesn't work.

I'd almost want to either make sure ragnar is around to help that charge roll (perhaps in a pod, or moved up in a rhino and drop the termies turn 2?), or maybe have arjac drop in to buff some wolf guard that just got out of a transport? Idk i just dont love them all deep striking in.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 05:51:13


Post by: Dakka Wolf


jcd386 wrote:
For me the strength of arjac doesnt mesh too well with the unreliability of deep striking 9" assaults. He is expensive if it doesn't work.

I'd almost want to either make sure ragnar is around to help that charge roll (perhaps in a pod, or moved up in a rhino and drop the termies turn 2?), or maybe have arjac drop in to buff some wolf guard that just got out of a transport? Idk i just dont love them all deep striking in.


If you don't mind deepstriking him into their faces rather than on their asses Wulfen could be your answer. Over a twenty four inch no man's land you have a seven inch move, one to six inch advance and a six inch bubble gives you thirteen to eighteen inches to tag the back of Arjac and his boys, effectively a two inch possible failure range if the advance roll doesn't go your way and that can be negged out by a conga-line.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 06:35:16


Post by: Weazel


Now that people have a few games under their belt, do we have a good idea what our winning combos are? Do we have any must picks or are all units truly viable?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 07:28:59


Post by: kodos


most units are viable, but it is more about the concept of list than about the some must pick stuff

eg Blood/Swift Claws work well with WG Battle Leader, Priest and Wulfen, TWC with Wolf Claws and Lord, Rune Priest are a must have if you are in need for Cover (eg using large Units)


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 08:19:11


Post by: Weazel


BTW looking at Win-Loss ratios we seem to be in a very very good place at the moment. Nice! Hopefully the nerfbat doesn't hit too hard

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730601.page


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 09:13:47


Post by: Karhedron


LegendaryEgo05 wrote:
I am contemplating wolf guard terminators with a cheap load out of storm bolted/power sword deepstriking in with arjac. I feel like this unit is a good jack of all trades unit that can strike in shoot and be good at combat when dealing with hordes. Is this a good idea or is it better to take Ss/th?

I like the cheap Terminators although I would probably throw 1 AC/PF dude in there for a little extra punch and firepower.

I am not so sure about Arjac though. He is absolutely rock hard and costs only about 10 points more than a similarly equipped WGBL for which you get his +1A bubble and a TH that can be thrown and does not have the -1 to Hit. However because his boost work best in assault, he really needs to get there reliably with a squad that will benefit from the extra punch.

I would use the cheap tactical TDA squad to drop in and hose targets. With Arjac I would run a full TH/SS squad in a Land Raider Crusader with a Wolf Priest to reroll misses and heal injured models. This is a ton of points but a Land Raider is almost guaranteed to get the squad where they are going and Arjac and his Shield Brothers can easily demolish a Knight in a single round of combat while the LRC can blast through hordes faster than a vindaloo through a short granny.

You could switch to a Vanguard Detachment and a Supreme Command Detachment as that should give you adequate Elite and HQ slots as well as a Superheavy slot for your knight. Then you have 2 heavy slots for the LRC and Predator, 2 FA slots for the TWC and a few Troop slots if you want some cheap Claws/Hunters to make up the numbers.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 11:26:03


Post by: LegendaryEgo05


I should've stated my internet. I do want to deep strike them but I am not intending to go straight for the charge. Just stand back and shoot until I have a high success charge roll. They have the attacks to chew through bodies if needed, and if they get charged. (Autocannon prob belongs in the squad)

I like the idea of two units but only have one at the moment, the LRC also worries me. If it gets charged and gummed up you spend a turn fleeing to get to attack next turn and that's an expensive model if it gets negated. I still need to try one this ed. I was high on the redeemer but found it wasn't as good as I thought.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 11:46:59


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Sounds like you need to keep a high mobility, high survivability unit nearby to act as a sacrificial/bodyguard unit.

Something that you can attack the offending unit with after it's backed out of combat and expect to survive until your opponent's melee phase - my recommendation would be offing the Predator for another unit of TWC or Wolf Guard Bikers - melee/shootie Dreads could be the answer as well.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 13:58:34


Post by: jcd386


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
For me the strength of arjac doesnt mesh too well with the unreliability of deep striking 9" assaults. He is expensive if it doesn't work.

I'd almost want to either make sure ragnar is around to help that charge roll (perhaps in a pod, or moved up in a rhino and drop the termies turn 2?), or maybe have arjac drop in to buff some wolf guard that just got out of a transport? Idk i just dont love them all deep striking in.


If you don't mind deepstriking him into their faces rather than on their asses Wulfen could be your answer. Over a twenty four inch no man's land you have a seven inch move, one to six inch advance and a six inch bubble gives you thirteen to eighteen inches to tag the back of Arjac and his boys, effectively a two inch possible failure range if the advance roll doesn't go your way and that can be negged out by a conga-line.


Ah yes, this is clearly the best way to make this happen.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 14:20:23


Post by: Karhedron


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
For me the strength of arjac doesnt mesh too well with the unreliability of deep striking 9" assaults. He is expensive if it doesn't work.


If you don't mind deepstriking him into their faces rather than on their asses Wulfen could be your answer. Over a twenty four inch no man's land you have a seven inch move, one to six inch advance and a six inch bubble gives you thirteen to eighteen inches to tag the back of Arjac and his boys, effectively a two inch possible failure range if the advance roll doesn't go your way and that can be negged out by a conga-line.


Even with a reroll, that is only just over a 50% chance of making the charge. If I were using Wulfen in this way, I would probably want to do it with several cheap squads rather than one expensive unit. Am I right in thinking that characters make their charge roll separately from the unit now? That could be awkward.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 17:50:17


Post by: ooberallen


 Karhedron wrote:
LegendaryEgo05 wrote:
I am contemplating wolf guard terminators with a cheap load out of storm bolted/power sword deepstriking in with arjac. I feel like this unit is a good jack of all trades unit that can strike in shoot and be good at combat when dealing with hordes. Is this a good idea or is it better to take Ss/th?

I like the cheap Terminators although I would probably throw 1 AC/PF dude in there for a little extra punch and firepower.


I'd go with thunder hammers over fists, same points cost for a guaranteed 3 damage vs d3.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 17:56:32


Post by: Weazel


Just played a couple of games at 1500, a few observations (or rather notes to self):

1) The LRC is a beast, the amount of dakka is just epic. However don't let your LRC get charged by anything, that's a lot of dakka shut down for at least one shooting phase (because the LRC is not going to kill anything in CC)
2) Shield dreads are awesome if your 3++ throwing arm is well developed. However mortal wounds are very much a thing and they are a prime target. Psychic defense might help but I don't think the odds of denying any spells are that high tbh.
3) Terminators are more durable than they used to be, but they are still not super tanky. Volume of fire/hits are still taking them down easy enough. Arjac is a beast though.
4) Don't focus too much on CC units, you need some good dakka to go with it. A mobile army like Eldar are just going to kite you all day long and every turn spent outside of CC is just zero damage. Bring Lascannons.
5) Kill all Hemlock Wraithfighters QUICKLY with said Lascannons.
6) Oh, and never ever use supercharged plasma unless you can reroll ones. It's not worth it.

My list was very elite, 3 Venerable Dreads (2 sword+board, 1 dakka variant), Bjorn and and LRC with an assortment of Terminators including Arjac. Definitely going to work on the list.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 19:41:20


Post by: Karhedron


 Weazel wrote:
6) Oh, and never ever use supercharged plasma unless you can reroll ones. It's not worth it.

Long Fangs can reroll 1s vs 1 target per turn. Most other units require a Captain-equiv babysitter to do this. Long Fangs with plasma cannons rock!

A unit of Hellblasters marching up the board with Bjorn can also reroll 1s to hit. Add a cheap WGBL and they can reroll 1s to wound as well. Very tasty!


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/05 22:05:13


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Karhedron wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
For me the strength of arjac doesnt mesh too well with the unreliability of deep striking 9" assaults. He is expensive if it doesn't work.


If you don't mind deepstriking him into their faces rather than on their asses Wulfen could be your answer. Over a twenty four inch no man's land you have a seven inch move, one to six inch advance and a six inch bubble gives you thirteen to eighteen inches to tag the back of Arjac and his boys, effectively a two inch possible failure range if the advance roll doesn't go your way and that can be negged out by a conga-line.


Even with a reroll, that is only just over a 50% chance of making the charge. If I were using Wulfen in this way, I would probably want to do it with several cheap squads rather than one expensive unit. Am I right in thinking that characters make their charge roll separately from the unit now? That could be awkward.


I'm afraid I got nothing else I can think of.
Best I can offer is if you've got Command Points to burn it ups your chances because you can choose between the Wulfen boost of rolling both dice and the Command Point to roll just the single lower dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Weazel wrote:
Just played a couple of games at 1500, a few observations (or rather notes to self):

1) The LRC is a beast, the amount of dakka is just epic. However don't let your LRC get charged by anything, that's a lot of dakka shut down for at least one shooting phase (because the LRC is not going to kill anything in CC)

Babysit them.
Babysit the Land-Raider with Bjorn.
Actually I'm going to be an idiot and say babysit them with Santa Clawz on his sleigh, he travels at the same pace, is a monster in melee and lets the Land Raider re-roll failed to hits in shooting and melee.

2) Shield dreads are awesome if your 3++ throwing arm is well developed. However mortal wounds are very much a thing and they are a prime target. Psychic defense might help but I don't think the odds of denying any spells are that high tbh.

Iron Priests. If you're packing three Dreads to make a wall pack two Iron Priests on Bikes. Don't bother with psychic defences, fix those Dreads!

3) Terminators are more durable than they used to be, but they are still not super tanky. Volume of fire/hits are still taking them down easy enough. Arjac is a beast though.

I don't use mine for tanking as such, when I use Termies I save them for an opening and drop them on enemy objectives.

4) Don't focus too much on CC units, you need some good dakka to go with it. A mobile army like Eldar are just going to kite you all day long and every turn spent outside of CC is just zero damage. Bring Lascannons.

You've got Termies, Bikes or fully-loaded Land-Raiders you're already carrying enough to deal with Eldar. No matter how agile they are Eldar hate Storm Bolters. Further, put the Termies behind their lines as soon as they launch farward.

5) Kill all Hemlock Wraithfighters QUICKLY with said Lascannons.

Ah, vehicle hate. They still won't appreciate having the Termies behind them. "There's no replacement for displacement". Yeah, yeah. I know that quote is about cubic capacity but it's a good tactical point too.

6) Oh, and never ever use supercharged plasma unless you can reroll ones. It's not worth it.

No comment - I never liked Plasma in 7th but for some reason I insist on taking it and finding reasons to overcharge it in 8th .

My list was very elite, 3 Venerable Dreads (2 sword+board, 1 dakka variant), Bjorn and and LRC with an assortment of Terminators including Arjac. Definitely going to work on the list.


At 1500 points I really don't have much to offer on the list, maybe swapping Bjorn for Grimnar on Stormrider they're both epic in their own way...but stepping that list up to 2000 there's definitely room to implement the additional Iron Priests and Santa Clawz.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/06 13:27:48


Post by: More Dakka


Need clarification on Arjac's Champion of the Kingsguard rule. Is the bonus attack rule part of fighting in a challenge or does he just get +1A for every WG model within 6" of him? If that's the case he can easily go over 10 attacks in most combats. Even if it doesn't he should be able to kill basically anything with the CHARACTER tag on the charge with a squad of regular wolf guard or TDAWG


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/06 13:53:47


Post by: crouching lictor


 More Dakka wrote:
Need clarification on Arjac's Champion of the Kingsguard rule. Is the bonus attack rule part of fighting in a challenge or does he just get +1A for every WG model within 6" of him? If that's the case he can easily go over 10 attacks in most combats. Even if it doesn't he should be able to kill basically anything with the CHARACTER tag on the charge with a squad of regular wolf guard or TDAWG


The FAQ clarified this to state that Arjac adds 1 to the Attack characteristic of each Wolf Guard unit within six inches. Arjac himself does not get +1 Attack for each Wolf Guard model. He would get +1 Attack for being a Wolf Guard model.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/06 13:54:23


Post by: Ulfhednar_42


 More Dakka wrote:
Need clarification on Arjac's Champion of the Kingsguard rule. Is the bonus attack rule part of fighting in a challenge or does he just get +1A for every WG model within 6" of him? If that's the case he can easily go over 10 attacks in most combats. Even if it doesn't he should be able to kill basically anything with the CHARACTER tag on the charge with a squad of regular wolf guard or TDAWG


Neither. The FAQ clarifies the intent. Wolf Guard units within 6" of Arjac have +1A added to their profile. (That includes Arjac as he's Wolf Guard and his Aura doesn't explicitly deny him the effect)



Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/06 13:56:22


Post by: More Dakka


Oh they FAQ'd to units not models, gotcha. Seemed too good to be true (working off Battlescribe too since they've been sold out of the index for a while near me)


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 02:13:26


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Ulfhednar_42 wrote:
 More Dakka wrote:
Need clarification on Arjac's Champion of the Kingsguard rule. Is the bonus attack rule part of fighting in a challenge or does he just get +1A for every WG model within 6" of him? If that's the case he can easily go over 10 attacks in most combats. Even if it doesn't he should be able to kill basically anything with the CHARACTER tag on the charge with a squad of regular wolf guard or TDAWG


Neither. The FAQ clarifies the intent. Wolf Guard units within 6" of Arjac have +1A added to their profile. (That includes Arjac as he's Wolf Guard and his Aura doesn't explicitly deny him the effect)



Need Arjak and Wulfen in aura range.
Stack those extra attacks like your models depend on them!!!

By the by.
Who else was mortified by the Wolf Standard's new profile?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 03:21:52


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ulfhednar_42 wrote:
 More Dakka wrote:
Need clarification on Arjac's Champion of the Kingsguard rule. Is the bonus attack rule part of fighting in a challenge or does he just get +1A for every WG model within 6" of him? If that's the case he can easily go over 10 attacks in most combats. Even if it doesn't he should be able to kill basically anything with the CHARACTER tag on the charge with a squad of regular wolf guard or TDAWG


Neither. The FAQ clarifies the intent. Wolf Guard units within 6" of Arjac have +1A added to their profile. (That includes Arjac as he's Wolf Guard and his Aura doesn't explicitly deny him the effect)



Need Arjak and Wulfen in aura range.
Stack those extra attacks like your models depend on them!!!

By the by.
Who else was mortified by the Wolf Standard's new profile?


Why are you mortified by it?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 05:30:54


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ulfhednar_42 wrote:
 More Dakka wrote:
Need clarification on Arjac's Champion of the Kingsguard rule. Is the bonus attack rule part of fighting in a challenge or does he just get +1A for every WG model within 6" of him? If that's the case he can easily go over 10 attacks in most combats. Even if it doesn't he should be able to kill basically anything with the CHARACTER tag on the charge with a squad of regular wolf guard or TDAWG


Neither. The FAQ clarifies the intent. Wolf Guard units within 6" of Arjac have +1A added to their profile. (That includes Arjac as he's Wolf Guard and his Aura doesn't explicitly deny him the effect)



Need Arjak and Wulfen in aura range.
Stack those extra attacks like your models depend on them!!!

By the by.
Who else was mortified by the Wolf Standard's new profile?


Why are you mortified by it?


Ten points to re-roll one dice in a failed charge and only for the unit carrying it? I want my six inch bubble of extra attacks.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 05:46:40


Post by: kodos


I did not used it last edition and now it is the same/similar like it was in 5th
Let the Grey Hunters be more a unit on their own that need not to stick near Wulfen for 10 points.
I take it


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 08:57:29


Post by: Karhedron


It's not a bad upgrade. 10 points of insurance in case your whiff your charge rolls sounds OK to me.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 09:53:04


Post by: Weazel


Only lets you re-roll ones, mind you. It's not bad for 10 points but probably not a must pick either.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 10:57:36


Post by: Dakka Wolf


The last edition only one could be taken per army and cost twenty five points but it granted one extra attack to any friendly Space Wolves model within a unit twelve inches or less from the bearer.
I'd rather the standard grants extra attacks, even if they were just within the unit.
Extra attacks are worth their weight in gold.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 11:32:27


Post by: kodos


what do the extra attack help if fail your Charge because of a double 1?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 11:35:00


Post by: Weazel


Well it would probably be a must pick (and way OP) if it remained the same as before. Orks have a +1A bubble but it's only 6" and costs like 50 points or so.

Not saying that I would mind having a +1A bubble but even at 25 points per pack it might be verging on a must pick.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 11:54:33


Post by: jcd386


It's not great, but it's not terrible either. You can't really compare it to older editions, and if we are, i prefer 5th ed where every squad could take one and it let them reroll 1s when they fought or whatever.

That being said, it still makes them better at charging than x % of the other units in the game, so that's something. It's too bad it's basically a cappy khorne icon for the same price, though.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 11:58:30


Post by: Blackie


 Weazel wrote:
Well it would probably be a must pick (and way OP) if it remained the same as before. Orks have a +1A bubble but it's only 6" and costs like 50 points or so.

Not saying that I would mind having a +1A bubble but even at 25 points per pack it might be verging on a must pick.


The waaagh banner nob costs 79 points stock and can't be upgraded with other stuff. But the 6'' bubble means that even 3 mobs of 30 can be easily in range to get the benefit. +1A to 90 orks is huge (a mob of 30 boyz gets 120 attacks hitting on 3s this way, granting an average of 90 hits, and with a weirdboy and ghaz they can even get 2 other more attacks per model eventually), even if one of the mobs must stay behind the other two units. Not to mention that it can affect characters with p.klaws too.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 12:51:15


Post by: crouching lictor


What have you guys been using for anti-flyer duties? Originally, I was thinking of using one of our own flyers but then I noticed that they're not any better at shooting at flyers than ground units are.

Possibilities are including allies to gain access to stalkers or stormhawks. What solutions does our own list have? Maybe a unit of jump pack wolf guard with a thunder hammer and frost swords?

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 15:01:32


Post by: Ragnar69


I don't think that you need dedicated AA. Sure, less of your Long Fangs/predators hit them, but you usually wound on 3+ and deny them their save, so who cares.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 19:18:42


Post by: jcd386


Ragnar69 wrote:
I don't think that you need dedicated AA. Sure, less of your Long Fangs/predators hit them, but you usually wound on 3+ and deny them their save, so who cares.


Agreed. Just shoot them down with long fangs/predators/razorbacks.

If you don't have any of those units you are probably screwed.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/07 22:28:10


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 kodos wrote:
what do the extra attack help if fail your Charge because of a double 1?


If you roll a double one chances are good a single dice re-roll isn't going to help you much either.
However, if something else gets a successful charge the extra attacks aura might help them, the current Standard is not an aura and has minimal use.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/18 08:34:21


Post by: Gibs55


Can anyone provide some tactical advice on this list?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733106.page

Thinking about buying some Space Wolves models this weekend.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/18 12:27:09


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Reply in the list thread.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/18 19:42:25


Post by: Gibs55


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Reply in the list thread.


Thanks, I have answered the questions. Keen to buy some SW models just need to get a viable list first haha.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/23 23:38:42


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


So with the new errata and FAQ out today I feel like we almost got a buff. If I'm reading it wrong someone inform me but it looks out wolf guard pack leaders can dual wield plasma pistols now and all the pack leaders wg and standard have access to the space wolves melee weapons instead of limiting us to the regular power weapons. It looks like our terminators can now carry stormshields as well as a combi bolter! So that's sweet! Again I may have read something wrong but some of this is pretty helpful and will end up changing my list building a little.

I haven't been able to check my book for comparison but they did something to ragnars points as well.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/23 23:58:42


Post by: ZergSmasher


Looks like TWC can take bolt pistols and storm shields again, but I'm still thinking I need to adjust my existing models because a chainsword is better on TWC than a stupid pistol.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 01:28:46


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Yep! So basically back to how it was.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 02:48:36


Post by: ZergSmasher


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
So with the new errata and FAQ out today I feel like we almost got a buff. If I'm reading it wrong someone inform me but it looks out wolf guard pack leaders can dual wield plasma pistols now and all the pack leaders wg and standard have access to the space wolves melee weapons instead of limiting us to the regular power weapons. It looks like our terminators can now carry stormshields as well as a combi bolter! So that's sweet! Again I may have read something wrong but some of this is pretty helpful and will end up changing my list building a little.

I haven't been able to check my book for comparison but they did something to ragnars points as well.

I think you're right about WGPLs being able to dual-wield Plasma pistols, but I didn't see anything related to regular non-WG pack leaders being able to take anything special beyond what they already could.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 05:05:50


Post by: Weazel


Wolf guard bikers got a HUGE nerf. No more SB/SS and a melee weapon. If you take a SS you have to take either a melee weapon or a combi.

What this means is that after getting to rapid fire range you really dont want to charge because the offensive output in melee is crippled. And if you dont charge you are very vulnerable to getting charged and essentially shut down for at least one shooting phase.

Thinking of dropping a few shields and taking power weapons to still offer a viable melee threat. Still keeping Storm bolters for all. I have a unit of 7 currently.

Cant say the nerf couldnt be seen miles away and I'm all for balance. However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 07:18:25


Post by: ryzouken


 Weazel wrote:
However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

I'm interested in how you opted to manage the four armed wolf guard conundrum. Specifically, how you chose to model a guy who wants an arm for his bike, an arm for a storm/combi bolter, an arm for a melee weapon, and an arm for a shield. Assuming you stick the shield to the bike frame or arm or backpack of the guy, that still leaves three arms worth of stuff. Did you forgo the handlebars? Stick a sheathed melee weapon on the model somewhere? Put a stowed combi/storm bolter on the bike? Grab Grey Knight storm bolters and mount them to the forearm of the arm reaching for the handlebars (what I'm leaning toward.)

I'm curious how you chose to model your dudes, even if the specific load outs are no longer legal.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 07:26:36


Post by: Blackie


It's fair. The possibility of bringing that many weapons was clearly a mistake. You can still have two weapons plus the bike which is a lot. One less attack at S4 with no AP shouldn't change that much for a unit of 5-7 dudes.

I've not bought them yet but I was planning to stick in that unit just a single shield anyway since I consider them basically a shooty anti-infantries unit.

Expensive models that can have a large choice of options may be magnetized. It worths the effort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ryzouken wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

I'm interested in how you opted to manage the four armed wolf guard conundrum. Specifically, how you chose to model a guy who wants an arm for his bike, an arm for a storm/combi bolter, an arm for a melee weapon, and an arm for a shield. Assuming you stick the shield to the bike frame or arm or backpack of the guy, that still leaves three arms worth of stuff. Did you forgo the handlebars? Stick a sheathed melee weapon on the model somewhere? Put a stowed combi/storm bolter on the bike? Grab Grey Knight storm bolters and mount them to the forearm of the arm reaching for the handlebars (what I'm leaning toward.)

I'm curious how you chose to model your dudes, even if the specific load outs are no longer legal.


You model the bikes with 2 weapons, none of their arms touching the handlebars.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 07:33:49


Post by: Weazel


Sheathed weapons easily count as chainswords (couple have them out as well), Storm Bolter in one hand (or hanging on the waist or even mounted between the bolters on the bike) and storm shields either on hand or attached to the front plate of the bike for ease of access. Not like they are wielding them all at the same time anyway...

Might have to remove a few shields now or replace the melee weapon arms though. Need to playtest a few different loadouts first. Might just keep them as they are because we are not super zealous on WYSIWYG, just as long as you know and tell your opponent what everything is and what the models are carrying. It's either going to be everyone with SS/SB or 1-3 guys with SB and a melee weapon (without the shield). Need to try which loadout works best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah magnetizing is nice, however I seldom do it for infantry since the arms or weapons are so small they tend to get lost in what is called da-pile-of-models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I don't think SS is solely for CC, on the contrary I think it's more valuable when doing ranged battle. Without any shields the bikes would just be picked off by a salvo of overcharged plasma or any medium to high strength high AP weapons that do multiple damage. Shields ramp up the survivability considerably.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 09:08:10


Post by: Blackie


 Weazel wrote:

Also I don't think SS is solely for CC, on the contrary I think it's more valuable when doing ranged battle. Without any shields the bikes would just be picked off by a salvo of overcharged plasma or any medium to high strength high AP weapons that do multiple damage. Shields ramp up the survivability considerably.


I agree, shields are quite useful to save bikers from enemy shooting, however there should be in the SW list several other targrets that are more appropriate than bikers for anti tank weapons. Things like wulfen, thunderwolves, terminator, razorback or the flyer should soak all the high strength and AP shots. Especially if you keep the WG bikers quite cheap and mostly a shooty unit, they will only attract the S4-5 firepower since everyting else is embarked, out of range (long fangs) or way more killy. One or two shields should be enough in unit with only stormbolters and chainswords.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 09:23:20


Post by: Weazel


 Blackie wrote:
 Weazel wrote:

Also I don't think SS is solely for CC, on the contrary I think it's more valuable when doing ranged battle. Without any shields the bikes would just be picked off by a salvo of overcharged plasma or any medium to high strength high AP weapons that do multiple damage. Shields ramp up the survivability considerably.


I agree, shields are quite useful to save bikers from enemy shooting, however there should be in the SW list several other targrets that are more appropriate than bikers for anti tank weapons. Things like wulfen, thunderwolves, terminator, razorback or the flyer should soak all the high strength and AP shots. Especially if you keep the WG bikers quite cheap and mostly a shooty unit, they will only attract the S4-5 firepower since everyting else is embarked, out of range (long fangs) or way more killy. One or two shields should be enough in unit with only stormbolters and chainswords.


Valid points, and I have targets for Lascannons and other true Anti-tank weapons but for plasma weapons the bikes are a prime target. I wouldn't waste plasma firepower trying to get a few wounds off of tanks when I can actually kill a couple of models and considerably hamper another unit's firepower. I don't run TWC or Wulfen and my terminators are in a Land Raider so there isn't much else to shoot at at least on the first turn, so a few Storm Shields is absolutely mandatory. I'm thinking of 4 shields at the moment in a unit of 7.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 10:22:19


Post by: Dakka Wolf


ryzouken wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

I'm interested in how you opted to manage the four armed wolf guard conundrum. Specifically, how you chose to model a guy who wants an arm for his bike, an arm for a storm/combi bolter, an arm for a melee weapon, and an arm for a shield. Assuming you stick the shield to the bike frame or arm or backpack of the guy, that still leaves three arms worth of stuff. Did you forgo the handlebars? Stick a sheathed melee weapon on the model somewhere? Put a stowed combi/storm bolter on the bike? Grab Grey Knight storm bolters and mount them to the forearm of the arm reaching for the handlebars (what I'm leaning toward.)

I'm curious how you chose to model your dudes, even if the specific load outs are no longer legal.


Sheathed chainsword/sword/axe/maul.
Storm Shield slung over the backpack.
One hand steering.
One hand blazing away with the Storm Bolter/Combi-weapon.

Sheathed chainsword/sword/axe/maul.
Sheathed Stormbolter.
One hand steering.
One hand holding the Storm Shield.

I've never much cared for the dual wielding on Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard, all open, howling and wanting to get shot.
Looks epic on Champions and Bloodclaws but I prefer my more experienced guys to look a bit more organised so I've been using kneedable epoxy to make sheaths and holsters for weapons for a while.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 14:12:30


Post by: jcd386


Nvm i misread that.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 14:31:30


Post by: kodos


Just add all additional not-melee weapons to the Bike model
There is enough space to put special weapons and stormbolters
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-216-13949107495278.jpg


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 15:41:54


Post by: More Dakka


Not sure if this was discussed yet, but I took 2 single Cyberwolves to flesh out an Outrider detachment in a game on Saturday. They were surprisingly effective, providing 2 trash drops on deployment. I went 2nd and my opponent went offensive with a LRC carrying TH/SS Termies. I managed to charge it with 1 Cyberwolf and survive his overwatch and then hold up the LRC for 2 turns. The other also held up a razorback for a turn before eating a round of shots from an Ass-Razor. Thinking there might be something to taking these guys in the future.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 17:18:43


Post by: jcd386


Maybe, but it doesn't sound like something you fall for twice.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 17:43:33


Post by: More Dakka


Nothing really to fall for, he had to devote a decent amount of fire to them to take them out as well, not just a storm bolter off the top of a vehicle.

They're also easy to hide behind other units like Razorbacks, and can charge without having LOS, but Overwatch still requires LOS as well.

I'm going to keep experimenting with them to see. At the very least they can grab objectives and provide trash-drops for deployment shenanigans.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 21:33:56


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 kodos wrote:
Just add all additional not-melee weapons to the Bike model
There is enough space to put special weapons and stormbolters
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-216-13949107495278.jpg


Hey, you kit-bashed Dork Angels bikes too!

"Hey, aren't those Ravenwing Bikes?"

"Repurposed for a more deserving army. The Machine Spirits approve."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you make the mutt-head mudguard yourself or is it off something?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 22:01:29


Post by: jcd386


 More Dakka wrote:
Nothing really to fall for, he had to devote a decent amount of fire to them to take them out as well, not just a storm bolter off the top of a vehicle.

They're also easy to hide behind other units like Razorbacks, and can charge without having LOS, but Overwatch still requires LOS as well.

I'm going to keep experimenting with them to see. At the very least they can grab objectives and provide trash-drops for deployment shenanigans.


Yeah makes sense. It is unfortunate to pretty much always go 2nd because of that, though, too.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/24 23:48:49


Post by: ZergSmasher


 Weazel wrote:
Wolf guard bikers got a HUGE nerf. No more SB/SS and a melee weapon. If you take a SS you have to take either a melee weapon or a combi.

What this means is that after getting to rapid fire range you really dont want to charge because the offensive output in melee is crippled. And if you dont charge you are very vulnerable to getting charged and essentially shut down for at least one shooting phase.

Thinking of dropping a few shields and taking power weapons to still offer a viable melee threat. Still keeping Storm bolters for all. I have a unit of 7 currently.

Cant say the nerf couldnt be seen miles away and I'm all for balance. However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

Are Storm Shields really necessary on Wolf Guard bikers? I ask because I haven't built mine yet. You say that you can't take both a chainsword and a storm bolter with a shield, but what if I just leave out the shield? Saves points, but is the reduced durability that awful? They don't cost that much more than standard bikers in other SM armies, after all.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 00:50:41


Post by: Lupus Mortem


I'm wondering how people will be playing the WG bikers after the errata and kind of had the same question about the storm shields as well. I bought everything I needed to build 5 of them with 4 weapons but held off on assembly and assumed there would be an errata on them pretty quick. Chainsword, combi weapon, and the bike's twin boltgun seem like an ok loadout. But I'm new to the game and could be wrong.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 03:53:10


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 ZergSmasher wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Wolf guard bikers got a HUGE nerf. No more SB/SS and a melee weapon. If you take a SS you have to take either a melee weapon or a combi.

What this means is that after getting to rapid fire range you really dont want to charge because the offensive output in melee is crippled. And if you dont charge you are very vulnerable to getting charged and essentially shut down for at least one shooting phase.

Thinking of dropping a few shields and taking power weapons to still offer a viable melee threat. Still keeping Storm bolters for all. I have a unit of 7 currently.

Cant say the nerf couldnt be seen miles away and I'm all for balance. However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

Are Storm Shields really necessary on Wolf Guard bikers? I ask because I haven't built mine yet. You say that you can't take both a chainsword and a storm bolter with a shield, but what if I just leave out the shield? Saves points, but is the reduced durability that awful? They don't cost that much more than standard bikers in other SM armies, after all.


Anything with two or more wounds and decent output is worth coughing up five points a Storm Shield to have two chances at saving.
If the shields were ten or fifteen points a pop I would reconsider but at five points grab those shields!

If you want combat viability have a character cruise nearby ready to Glorius Intervention and bring the power weapons.
Otherwise I'd drop the Shield on the squad leader for a Power Weapon.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 06:07:23


Post by: Waaaghpower


I'm especially annoyed by the nerf to Wolf Guard because it makes us explicitly worse than Company Veterans. Pre-nerf, for the same points cost, we lost the Bodyguard rule but gained an extra weapon. Now, it's just... Nada. Nothing. You get nothing.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 06:31:52


Post by: Weazel


Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm especially annoyed by the nerf to Wolf Guard because it makes us explicitly worse than Company Veterans. Pre-nerf, for the same points cost, we lost the Bodyguard rule but gained an extra weapon. Now, it's just... Nada. Nothing. You get nothing.


Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters. Maybe we'll get something related to bodyguard whenever the Codex hits. A straight up 2+ Look Out Sir would be more convenient than the constant bubblewrapping of characters. Not as an universal rule of course but for select units.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 06:44:47


Post by: Waaaghpower


 Weazel wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm especially annoyed by the nerf to Wolf Guard because it makes us explicitly worse than Company Veterans. Pre-nerf, for the same points cost, we lost the Bodyguard rule but gained an extra weapon. Now, it's just... Nada. Nothing. You get nothing.


Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters. Maybe we'll get something related to bodyguard whenever the Codex hits. A straight up 2+ Look Out Sir would be more convenient than the constant bubblewrapping of characters. Not as an universal rule of course but for select units.

Not to mention, it would fix the problem that Logan Grimnar has, where his chariot makes him more fragile than being on foot, because he can't be shielded. It would add some nice synergy, too - He buffs Wolf Guard, but the Wolf Guard protect him as well.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 15:35:27


Post by: Ragnar69


Anyone else concerned about the cut of options in the SM dex? We might easily lose IPs on wolves and IPs/WPs/RPs on bike...


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 15:58:54


Post by: kodos


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 kodos wrote:
Just add all additional not-melee weapons to the Bike model
There is enough space to put special weapons and stormbolters
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-216-13949107495278.jpg


Hey, you kit-bashed Dork Angels bikes too!

"Hey, aren't those Ravenwing Bikes?"

"Repurposed for a more deserving army. The Machine Spirits approve."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you make the mutt-head mudguard yourself or is it off something?


Odin's Ravens
and the head is from the old GW plastic wolves (sold with Goblins, Undead and SW)

 Weazel wrote:

Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters.


Because Wolf Guard act as troop leaders or second in command
it is correct and "fluffy" that they don't have that rule


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 16:53:44


Post by: Waaaghpower


 kodos wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters.


Because Wolf Guard act as troop leaders or second in command
it is correct and "fluffy" that they don't have that rule

Don't care if it's fluffy. It makes Wolf Guard explicitly worse than their equivalent Space Marine unit, for the same points cost.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 17:05:33


Post by: pm713


Waaaghpower wrote:
 kodos wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters.


Because Wolf Guard act as troop leaders or second in command
it is correct and "fluffy" that they don't have that rule

Don't care if it's fluffy. It makes Wolf Guard explicitly worse than their equivalent Space Marine unit, for the same points cost.

The whole point of a Wolf Guard is to protect their Lord so how is it fluffy not to have a guard rule. The only reason is that Space Marines must be the best at all costs.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 21:59:26


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Weazel wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm especially annoyed by the nerf to Wolf Guard because it makes us explicitly worse than Company Veterans. Pre-nerf, for the same points cost, we lost the Bodyguard rule but gained an extra weapon. Now, it's just... Nada. Nothing. You get nothing.


Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters. Maybe we'll get something related to bodyguard whenever the Codex hits. A straight up 2+ Look Out Sir would be more convenient than the constant bubblewrapping of characters. Not as an universal rule of course but for select units.


Depending on the fluff the term Wolf Guard could be the oversight.
Outside the codex they're referred to as Shield Brothers, Iron Brothers and Huskjarl.
Still, we do cough up an extra point for the ability to take an extra "free" weapon just like the Grey Hunters do.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/25 22:42:00


Post by: ZergSmasher


Ragnar69 wrote:
Anyone else concerned about the cut of options in the SM dex? We might easily lose IPs on wolves and IPs/WPs/RPs on bike...

I think GW explicitly said that some units will continue to use their Index entries if they aren't in the actual codex. I assume that applies to Space Wolves and other armies as well when their respective dexes drop.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/26 04:03:48


Post by: jcd386


Yeah, if it is in the index it is still usable. Also, I think the SW codex is far enough out they will want to release a unit or two with it, so maybe we will get a few of the missing models...but in general yes, from now on GW is mostly going to have the options in the codex be the options in the plastic kits. We'll be able to use the models for a while though, at least until the next time they redo the indexes, i imagine.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/26 04:59:54


Post by: ZergSmasher


I posted a list in the Army Lists subforum: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/734036.page
I'm open to any helpful advice with it, as most of the models are not yet built.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/26 05:49:21


Post by: Weazel


jcd386 wrote:
Yeah, if it is in the index it is still usable. Also, I think the SW codex is far enough out they will want to release a unit or two with it, so maybe we will get a few of the missing models...but in general yes, from now on GW is mostly going to have the options in the codex be the options in the plastic kits. We'll be able to use the models for a while though, at least until the next time they redo the indexes, i imagine.


It's sad. On one hand it's some times annoying that they don't have certain characters on bikes as official models, but on the other hand it's nice to convert those how you see fit. Overall character and unit customization is one of 40k's and especially one of Space Wolves' strengths so it will be really sad if for example Krom Dragongaze kit or some other kit becomes the default Wolf Lord kit with only those options available that are on the sprue.

Fortunately there are a lot of wolfy bits on the "default" sprues and even an upgrade sprue available so I don't really feel that they would drastically limit the options... but we'll see.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/26 06:59:42


Post by: BaconCatBug


GW operates on a strict No Model, No Rule policy due to the Chapter House lawsuits. We're lucky we got ANY legacy options in the indexes to begin with. All we can hope is that they release official boxes for things like Veteran Bikers and have a datasheet included.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/26 09:51:12


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Weazel wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Yeah, if it is in the index it is still usable. Also, I think the SW codex is far enough out they will want to release a unit or two with it, so maybe we will get a few of the missing models...but in general yes, from now on GW is mostly going to have the options in the codex be the options in the plastic kits. We'll be able to use the models for a while though, at least until the next time they redo the indexes, i imagine.


It's sad. On one hand it's some times annoying that they don't have certain characters on bikes as official models, but on the other hand it's nice to convert those how you see fit. Overall character and unit customization is one of 40k's and especially one of Space Wolves' strengths so it will be really sad if for example Krom Dragongaze kit or some other kit becomes the default Wolf Lord kit with only those options available that are on the sprue.

Fortunately there are a lot of wolfy bits on the "default" sprues and even an upgrade sprue available so I don't really feel that they would drastically limit the options... but we'll see.


They offed the named bike/jump Wolf Lord on Cadia. Never even got a model, and his sacrifice was effectively irrelevant.
Me, I want to see Lukas with a Jump Pack.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 05:48:45


Post by: Weazel


So, I got my arse handed to me by my friend's Nurgle Daemons. Incidentally I have usually beaten him more often than not but his current list is hard.

Basically he has TWO identical contingents:
1 Great Unclean One
2 Deamon Princes of Nurgle
1 Herald
20 Plaguebearers as bubblewrap

He also runs 20 Furies (fast) and a small group of Nurglings.

Everything in his army has 5++/5+++ so statistically about the equivalent of Storm Shields across the board and he rolls saves like a fething GOD I swear.

Bringing tough elites is not going to cut it because 8 characters throwing Smite around are just going to melt anything that comes too close. Add to that the Princes and GUOs are formidable CC combatants that blow anything I bring out of the water in melee.

Kinda out of ideas. I was thinking of going full horde mode and feed "cheap" marines to his Smites instead of Terminators, but don't know if I have enough firepower to bring enough of his army down before he touches my lines. You might think that 20 Plaguebearers and maybe even one GUO is easy to take down in a turn of shooting but man, you would be so wrong.

What would you bring if you tailored a list against that?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 09:56:39


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Weazel wrote:
So, I got my arse handed to me by my friend's Nurgle Daemons. Incidentally I have usually beaten him more often than not but his current list is hard.

Basically he has TWO identical contingents:
1 Great Unclean One
2 Deamon Princes of Nurgle
1 Herald
20 Plaguebearers as bubblewrap

He also runs 20 Furies (fast) and a small group of Nurglings.

Everything in his army has 5++/5+++ so statistically about the equivalent of Storm Shields across the board and he rolls saves like a fething GOD I swear.

Bringing tough elites is not going to cut it because 8 characters throwing Smite around are just going to melt anything that comes too close. Add to that the Princes and GUOs are formidable CC combatants that blow anything I bring out of the water in melee.

Kinda out of ideas. I was thinking of going full horde mode and feed "cheap" marines to his Smites instead of Terminators, but don't know if I have enough firepower to bring enough of his army down before he touches my lines. You might think that 20 Plaguebearers and maybe even one GUO is easy to take down in a turn of shooting but man, you would be so wrong.

What would you bring if you tailored a list against that?


Grab some black spray paint and a pot of silver - Deathwatch Wolves.
Patrol of Kill team and Bikers would be my suggestion.
Spray those Daemons with SIAmmo to wound any non vehicle on a 2+. He likes to roll saves? Make him roll more.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 10:02:14


Post by: Weazel


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
So, I got my arse handed to me by my friend's Nurgle Daemons. Incidentally I have usually beaten him more often than not but his current list is hard.

Basically he has TWO identical contingents:
1 Great Unclean One
2 Deamon Princes of Nurgle
1 Herald
20 Plaguebearers as bubblewrap

He also runs 20 Furies (fast) and a small group of Nurglings.

Everything in his army has 5++/5+++ so statistically about the equivalent of Storm Shields across the board and he rolls saves like a fething GOD I swear.

Bringing tough elites is not going to cut it because 8 characters throwing Smite around are just going to melt anything that comes too close. Add to that the Princes and GUOs are formidable CC combatants that blow anything I bring out of the water in melee.

Kinda out of ideas. I was thinking of going full horde mode and feed "cheap" marines to his Smites instead of Terminators, but don't know if I have enough firepower to bring enough of his army down before he touches my lines. You might think that 20 Plaguebearers and maybe even one GUO is easy to take down in a turn of shooting but man, you would be so wrong.

What would you bring if you tailored a list against that?


Grab some black spray paint and a pot of silver - Deathwatch Wolves.
Patrol of Kill team and Bikers would be my suggestion.
Spray those Daemons with SIAmmo to wound any non vehicle on a 2+. He likes to roll saves? Make him roll more.


Well if you would have to do it purely SW style? I have almost anything available that's in the SW index outside of Wulfen.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 10:44:07


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Pure Wolves.

Nurgle are mid-ranged and slow in comparison to other Chaos armies, the more you can keep him travelling around for priority targets the less damage he can actually do.

My option would be WGBLs and Wolf Scouts to pop up in different directions taking his back and flanks and harassing his characters with Sniper rounds re-rolling to wounds, even if you can't get his back directly just forcing him to focus in different directions should minimise his ability to attack as effectively.
Deck the WGBLs out for melee to face the furies, TDA and claws would be my suggestion.

No idea about your current list or what might work better for you but I know mid-ranged armies don't like travel time.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 10:59:36


Post by: Weazel


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Pure Wolves.

Nurgle are mid-ranged and slow in comparison to other Chaos armies, the more you can keep him travelling around for priority targets the less damage he can actually do.

My option would be WGBLs and Wolf Scouts to pop up in different directions taking his back and flanks and harassing his characters with Sniper rounds re-rolling to wounds, even if you can't get his back directly just forcing him to focus in different directions should minimise his ability to attack as effectively.
Deck the WGBLs out for melee to face the furies, TDA and claws would be my suggestion.

No idea about your current list or what might work better for you but I know mid-ranged armies don't like travel time.


Well my plan is to bring as much dakka I can and sit back and try to whittle him down while he slogs along the board and hope that is enough before he hits my lines. Taking a lot of dakka means there aren't too many points left to spend on anything that can take a real beating in CC...

Currently sitting at 8 Lascannons, 10 Missile launchers, 5 Assault Cannons, 2 heavy flamers, 3 plasmaguns and 48 Boltguns. Trying to incorporate rerolling of ones both hitting and wounding as much as possible.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 11:54:04


Post by: jcd386


Is that 2k points? Also what does the last look like? Are those all razorbacks?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 12:23:05


Post by: Weazel


jcd386 wrote:
Is that 2k points? Also what does the last look like? Are those all razorbacks?


There you go:
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [113 PL, 1998pts] ++

+ HQ +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [14 PL, 277pts]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon

Wolf Guard Battle Leader [5 PL, 65pts]: Bolt pistol, Power axe

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]
. . Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. . 3x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. . Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]
. . Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. . 3x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. . Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]
. . Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. . 3x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. . Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 153pts]: Assault cannon
. . Great Wolf Claw w/Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer

Wolf Guard on Bikes [28 PL, 301pts]
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike Pack Leader: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Long Fangs [8 PL, 215pts]
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

Long Fangs [8 PL, 215pts]
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

Predator [9 PL, 202pts]: Twin lascannon
. . Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

Razorback [5 PL, 117pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon

++ Total: [113 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 15:19:57


Post by: jcd386


I think the grey hunters need some more oomph. Specifically combi plasma and plasma pistol for 6 guys with 5 plasma shots so you can actually put the hurt on things.

I think you have enough anti tank, but lack high rate of fire 2 damage shooting. Id think about finding room for some autocannon dreadnoughts. These will help rip up daemons without wasting too many wounds. Even on the 1w guys, if he fails the first 5+, he'll have to make 2 more to not lose the guy. Plasma are good for thee same reason.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 16:24:37


Post by: Weazel


I don't have any autocannon dreads and word is they are not in the newest SM codex so they are slowly being phased out I suppose. So not a good time to buy new ones.

The Grey Hunters are a screen to eat some Smite and if some are still left standing maybe catch a charge as well. Their "oomph" is secondary in this list. Besides I would have to figure out where to steal the points. Also I have a rep of killing my own guys with overcharged plasma even with rerolls, so I don't really like overcharging them for the very same reason. Not bad suggestions though, thanks.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 16:53:02


Post by: Comely


 Weazel wrote:
I don't have any autocannon dreads and word is they are not in the newest SM codex so they are slowly being phased out I suppose. So not a good time to buy new ones.

The Grey Hunters are a screen to eat some Smite and if some are still left standing maybe catch a charge as well. Their "oomph" is secondary in this list. Besides I would have to figure out where to steal the points. Also I have a rep of killing my own guys with overcharged plasma even with rerolls, so I don't really like overcharging them for the very same reason. Not bad suggestions though, thanks.


Vanilla Marines couldnt take rifle dreads last edition either. It was a space wolf thing (and maybe some other chapters) So just because they arent in the new codex doesnt necessarily mean anything.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 17:00:20


Post by: jcd386


If you don't want to use the grey hunters efficiently, i would take something cheaper, so i guess blood claws? That being said i think it's a mistake to pay 250ish points on fairly useless units when you could pay 350ish for really good ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the dreads, you can use the index version instead of the codex one per GW.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 18:18:15


Post by: Weazel


jcd386 wrote:
If you don't want to use the grey hunters efficiently, i would take something cheaper, so i guess blood claws? That being said i think it's a mistake to pay 250ish points on fairly useless units when you could pay 350ish for really good ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the dreads, you can use the index version instead of the codex one per GW.


Idk, 3 combi plasma for the GH and what else? Powerweapons and AP values mean next to nothing against daemons... And what would you drop out of the list to put some meat on the GH?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/27 20:28:56


Post by: jcd386


Probably 2 of the missile guys in long fang squads.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 01:31:35


Post by: labmouse42


 Weazel wrote:
Everything in his army has 5++/5+++ so statistically about the equivalent of Storm Shields across the board and he rolls saves like a fething GOD I swear.
It comes out to be a 55.55% chance of saving. He will save 1/3 of the wounds. Then out of the 2/3 of the wounds that get through, he will save 1/3 of those.
The forumula winds up looking like this.... (2/3 failed save) * (2/3 failed DR) = 4/9 = ~44.444 chance of failed save.
It's damn annoying. I know. It's why I play this...as my main army.


So what do I hate?
* Stuff that has lots of attacks. 30 plaguebearers don't care about a 5 lychguard. On average that kind of a unit will do this...
(1/2 to hit) * (2/3 to wound) * (2/3 failed save) * (2/3 failed FNP) = 4/27 Those 10 attacks the lynchguard get will kill between 1 and 2 plaguebearers.
Now, in comparison harlequins are a PITA because of the number of attacks they get. Bezerkers are just downright killy
* Lots of bodies. My army has enough smite to handle the current meta well. Someone shoves Magnus down my throat, and I light him up with 9 smites. When I face 120 conscripts I say ... "Well...crap"
* Melta into my GUO. Any weapons that do multiple damage really cause me pain, as the DR is much less effective. Having my GUO hit by a LC or ML is a big bummer.
* Fast moving armies. Just can't get to them. I played a DE player last night who was a real pain as he just sat back and shot me.

What are my tricks?
* I'll trick you into sitting on the other side of the board and shooting me. I don't care if you are killing 8 point plauge bearers. You won't kill enough to wipe them off an objective, and I'll win the game.
* I'll trick you into wasting your shots on the wrong targets. My Plague drones are there as a distraction to force you to look at them while I camp objectives to win.

How to beat me?
* Don't be afraid to advance. Who cares if you are in combat with 30 plague bearers. They are pillowfighting.
* Bring some psykers. A few deny's can really tip the balance
* Bring multi-wound weapons. Even powerfists can be a pain. 2 wound weapons are the worst, like autocannons.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 05:15:15


Post by: Weazel


 labmouse42 wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Everything in his army has 5++/5+++ so statistically about the equivalent of Storm Shields across the board and he rolls saves like a fething GOD I swear.
It comes out to be a 55.55% chance of saving. He will save 1/3 of the wounds. Then out of the 2/3 of the wounds that get through, he will save 1/3 of those.
The forumula winds up looking like this.... (2/3 failed save) * (2/3 failed DR) = 4/9 = ~44.444 chance of failed save.
It's damn annoying. I know. It's why I play this...as my main army.


So what do I hate?
* Stuff that has lots of attacks. 30 plaguebearers don't care about a 5 lychguard. On average that kind of a unit will do this...
(1/2 to hit) * (2/3 to wound) * (2/3 failed save) * (2/3 failed FNP) = 4/27 Those 10 attacks the lynchguard get will kill between 1 and 2 plaguebearers.
Now, in comparison harlequins are a PITA because of the number of attacks they get. Bezerkers are just downright killy
* Lots of bodies. My army has enough smite to handle the current meta well. Someone shoves Magnus down my throat, and I light him up with 9 smites. When I face 120 conscripts I say ... "Well...crap"
* Melta into my GUO. Any weapons that do multiple damage really cause me pain, as the DR is much less effective. Having my GUO hit by a LC or ML is a big bummer.
* Fast moving armies. Just can't get to them. I played a DE player last night who was a real pain as he just sat back and shot me.

What are my tricks?
* I'll trick you into sitting on the other side of the board and shooting me. I don't care if you are killing 8 point plauge bearers. You won't kill enough to wipe them off an objective, and I'll win the game.
* I'll trick you into wasting your shots on the wrong targets. My Plague drones are there as a distraction to force you to look at them while I camp objectives to win.

How to beat me?
* Don't be afraid to advance. Who cares if you are in combat with 30 plague bearers. They are pillowfighting.
* Bring some psykers. A few deny's can really tip the balance
* Bring multi-wound weapons. Even powerfists can be a pain. 2 wound weapons are the worst, like autocannons.


Thanks, this was helpful. Granted I had made some of these conclusions myself already.

About psykers, bringing 2 Rune priests cost a lot of point for just two measly denies, and their spells are downright useless against the particular list I'm facing. Cover save against an army that does not shoot? Yeah. Or -1 to hit.. well very very situational and again, he does not shoot at all... Finally Jaws is only really usable against Plaguebearers, everything else has a movement value of 8" or more, so it is more or less wasted on 8 pt models. So you're basically left with 2 Smites. And to be honest when you're smiting you should go full ham. I'd rather use the points to get 5 ML/LC to do some work.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 15:07:38


Post by: More Dakka


Anyone tried the TDAWGPL in a squad of Long Fangs?

I'm debating taking one either barebones as a tank, or spending the 80+ pts to run the Cyclone ML in a ML squad.

What loadouts are people running their LFs with btw? I'm liking 5x LC, or 5x ML, sacrificing a bit of hitting power for the versatility of horde killing. Then Plasma would be a good compromise between those 2 as well, especially with the re-rolls of 1's


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 16:17:42


Post by: Weazel


 More Dakka wrote:
Anyone tried the TDAWGPL in a squad of Long Fangs?

I'm debating taking one either barebones as a tank, or spending the 80+ pts to run the Cyclone ML in a ML squad.

What loadouts are people running their LFs with btw? I'm liking 5x LC, or 5x ML, sacrificing a bit of hitting power for the versatility of horde killing. Then Plasma would be a good compromise between those 2 as well, especially with the re-rolls of 1's


Depends. I really like LCs if you know you're facing tanks and especially T8. Missiles are versatile but pay through the nose if you're facing the aforementioned T8. Depends how many bolters you bring whether those frag missiles are necessary. Against horde lists ML is obviously better hands down. If you're facing Primaris or Terminators Plasma Cannons can really shine especially since you have a natural reroll of 1's.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 16:55:53


Post by: More Dakka


Yeah that's the problem, all of the loadouts are good but it depends what you're facing.

Any thoughts on taking a TDAWG leader?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 18:28:40


Post by: jcd386


I'd only take him if i had already taken 3 squads of 5 heavy weapons long fangs and wanted to pay a premium for more missiles.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 18:30:54


Post by: BaconCatBug


Drop Pod Long Fangs are not worth it anymore, right? I'd be better off just taking Tempestus Scions with Plasma?


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 19:27:38


Post by: Weazel


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Drop Pod Long Fangs are not worth it anymore, right? I'd be better off just taking Tempestus Scions with Plasma?


IMO no way. 100pts tax for the pod and with 4-5 MM you're just going to hit twice or maybe thrice (on 4+), wound once or twice and cause maybe 4-5 damage on average per wound with the reroll. And they are going to get wiped out the next turn guaranteed. That's just too little work done for 300 pts. MAYBE if you drop 1-2 packs of terminators with them as a screen and as an even bigger threat... but that's not a cheap little detachment any more.

I might suggest dropping 5 cheap HB guys on a remote objective.. they're not threatening enough to warrant priority elimination but you are still going to have to commit some firepower to remove them. And they can still dish out 15 S5 AP-1 shots so not completely useless either.


Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.  @ 2017/07/28 19:32:29


Post by: jcd386


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Drop Pod Long Fangs are not worth it anymore, right? I'd be better off just taking Tempestus Scions with Plasma?


Yes, though MMs are not terrible, and for normal marines grav can do some work with 16 shots. The issue is just how much the drop pod costs and the likelyhood of doing worthwhile damage, as well as the possibility of being in 12" range of a good target vs an enemy that is screening their valuable units correctly.