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Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 14:57:40


Post by: Mythantor


I just thought it would be cleaner to start a new thred for 8th edition considering the old one is 243 pages.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 15:58:47


Post by: RoninXiC


I agree, this is a good idea.

Well... whats the point of the rhino again? The Repressor is just better... the additonal point costs are almost exclusive for its heavy flamer..


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 16:59:44


Post by: pretre


For reference:
https://i.4cdn.org/tg/1497657055488.jpg




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So 90 points for a stock repressor that's better than an immo?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This changes my list for 1500.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just having fire points again is huge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's my tentative list with the changes from Immo to Repressor:
6 Command Points at 1500

Spearhead 1

Canoness -45
5 Ret with 4 HB and SB - 89
5 Ret with 4 HB and SB - 89
5 Ret with 4 HB and SB - 89

Vanguard

Lord Commissar with PW/BP - 55
42 Conscripts - 126
Ministorum Priest with Chainsword/BP- 35
Imagifer - 40
Imagifer - 40
Imagifer - 40

Outrider Detachment

St C&2G - 250
6 Seraphim with 2 HF, Chainsword - 90
6 Seraphim with 2 HF, Chainsword - 90
5 Doms with 4 Melta, Chainsword - 118
Repressor with HF, 2xSB - 92
5 Doms with 4 Melta, Chainsword - 118
Repressor with HF, 2xSB - 92

1498



Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 17:38:42


Post by: Amishprn86


B.c Repressors are so dang good and i only have Rhinos and Immolators..

Anyone have a Paper Craft of the Repressor so i can make the top parts just as a Cap for my Rhinos?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 17:44:43


Post by: Mavnas


To continue the discussion, I think there are still places you might take flamers over SB (also, particularly if you have a lot of them already painted). For example 4 flamer doms + Combi-Flamer is an example where the minor advantage over the SB x 5 becomes very noticeable. I don't have many flamers painted up (and I think I have 0 SB).

Flamers are also assault weapons which makes them more mobile, but SB make up for this with greater range. I imagine there might be situations where the extra mobility matters more and I imagine there are situations where staying further away from the enemy and shooting from a safe distance is better.

Conversely, I didn't see any rule about passengers firing overwatch when their vehicle is charged, so there isn't as much benefit to loading up a repressor with a lot of flamers. Although if you're planning to charge with it, the unit inside will end up at the range where flamers are useful.

My biggest problem with points changes in this edition is the change to melta though. I used to spam melta guns on every model that could take one. This was partly because we didn't have access to high RoF low AP shots and partly because I expected to lose a lot of those melta guns while delivering them into range of enemy vehicles. So essentially, I was fielding a lot of small, expendable squads that had enough melta to make them dangerous enough that they messed with my opponent's target prioritization. The new points costs make me feel that I can't treat melta guns as expendable anymore.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 17:47:33


Post by: RoninXiC


The passengers cannot fire overwatch. They are not the target of the charge, the transport is.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 17:48:04


Post by: Amishprn86


Well you can now put your Melts up front and take a body from the back, you keep your Melta until the last model int he unit now.

So in a way its more survivable.

If you take a Repressor you can have them even more survivable.

PS: About flamers, having a unit dedicated to flamers IMO is a good thing, b.c we can AoF, Move and Advance we can go pretty far and still shoot auto hits, or just move and advance with dbl tapping.
Tho I think im just going to take a squad of Penitent Engines and do this with them sense i have them and they are playable now


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 17:53:51


Post by: Mavnas


RoninXiC wrote:
The passengers cannot fire overwatch. They are not the target of the charge, the transport is.


Yeah, they used to be able to do that. So this is new and unfortunate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Well you can now put your Melts up front and take a body from the back, you keep your Melta until the last model int he unit now.

So in a way its more survivable.

If you take a Repressor you can have them even more survivable.

PS: About flamers, having a unit dedicated to flamers IMO is a good thing, b.c we can AoF, Move and Advance we can go pretty far and still shoot auto hits, or just move and advance with dbl tapping.
Tho I think im just going to take a squad of Penitent Engines and do this with them sense i have them and they are playable now


Yeah, but in that case, why not a unit of Heavy Flamers. If you're going to invest your AoF and transport capacity in it, might as well go all in. Consider, flamers have a 1/2 chance to wound MEQ and a 1/3 chance to get through their save. Heavy flamers have 2/3 and 1/2. They are literally twice as a good as regular flamers against marines.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 18:00:04


Post by: Drider


I had been thinking about something like this for a 2k list.

Outrider:
Big C with 2 Little Gs -250
10 Seraphim with 2x2 Hand Flamers -134
5 Dom with 4 Melta -118
5 Dom with 4 Melta -118
5 Dom with 4 Melta -118
Immolator with Immolation Flamer -103
Immolator with Immolation Flamer -103
Immolator with Immolation Flamer -103

Spearhead:
Canoness with Combi-Plasma -60
3 Penitent Engines -387
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters -85
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters -85

Battalion:
Canoness with Combi-Plasma, Power Sword -64
Canoness with Combi-Plasma, Power Sword -64
5 Battle Sisters with 1 Heavy Bolter. Condemnor Boltgun -56
5 Battle Sisters with 1 Heavy Bolter, Condemnor Boltgun -56
5 Battle Sisters with 1 Heavy Bolter, Condemnor Boltgun -56
Imagifier -40

Total: 2000 Points, 106 PL, 8 CP

Rush forward with Big C, Seraphim, Dominions and Immolators and hope that's a big enough distraction for the penitent engines to make it up the table and into combat. I'm not completely set with the wargear though, I keep thinking about cutting down on the combi-plas, power swords and condemnors to try to fit in a hospitaller.

But with the repressor rules looking like this i think it i may just have to finally get round to designing and 3D printing a conversion kit for a couple of my, now surplus, rhinos.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 18:40:02


Post by: Mythantor


Penitent engines dont have AoF much sadness or i would run them for sure.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 18:46:40


Post by: MrFlutterPie


Ahh new edition new thread

I am still trying to absorb all of the changes and figure things out from all over again. I am lucky though as I have a very large collection so I am not wanting for much. I did start painting 2 imagfiers though lol.

I do like the idea of a conscript blob modeled as Frateris Militia and would like to work on that at some point.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 18:48:50


Post by: Drider


Yeah... if only they could AoF and if only priests could give them +1 attack and if only canonesses could give them reroll 1s.

They still look crazy dangerous in CC, a squad of 3 ripping gak apart and then getting a second attack phase. went for a squad of 3 so that I could reroll that one dice roll 4+ rather than splitting them into singles and banking on breaking even on multiple rolls.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:11:37


Post by: dracpanzer


Repressors are an easy conversion from a basic rhino. Couple of pieces of city of death terrain and a heavy flamer and you are all set. Though what Sisters army doesn't love just a bit more bling?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:15:36


Post by: pretre


I've posted my Repressor conversions from Immos, PE Drivers and IG Dozer blades before. It's super easy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drider wrote:
I had been thinking about something like this for a 2k list.

Outrider:
Big C with 2 Little Gs -250
10 Seraphim with 2x2 Hand Flamers -134
5 Dom with 4 Melta -118
5 Dom with 4 Melta -118
5 Dom with 4 Melta -118
Immolator with Immolation Flamer -103
Immolator with Immolation Flamer -103
Immolator with Immolation Flamer -103

Spearhead:
Canoness with Combi-Plasma -60
3 Penitent Engines -387
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters -85
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters -85

Battalion:
Canoness with Combi-Plasma, Power Sword -64
Canoness with Combi-Plasma, Power Sword -64
5 Battle Sisters with 1 Heavy Bolter. Condemnor Boltgun -56
5 Battle Sisters with 1 Heavy Bolter, Condemnor Boltgun -56
5 Battle Sisters with 1 Heavy Bolter, Condemnor Boltgun -56
Imagifier -40

Total: 2000 Points, 106 PL, 8 CP

Rush forward with Big C, Seraphim, Dominions and Immolators and hope that's a big enough distraction for the penitent engines to make it up the table and into combat. I'm not completely set with the wargear though, I keep thinking about cutting down on the combi-plas, power swords and condemnors to try to fit in a hospitaller.

But with the repressor rules looking like this i think it i may just have to finally get round to designing and 3D printing a conversion kit for a couple of my, now surplus, rhinos.

You definitely need to swap the Immos for Repressors. Also, I'm not sold on the points in the Battalion being well spent.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:31:09


Post by: Amishprn86


Can you post again?

I have an Idea to use some extra Rhino parts.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:31:49


Post by: Drider


I suppose it depends on how much you value the command points, In my test games at 1000 points I found that 4 or 5 points was to few and i'd be running out before the end of the game. That reroll is just to good. So I figured that adding in the battalion for less than 300 points tax was a good way to get a few more CPs for larger games.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:34:01


Post by: jim300


I'm sorry but I can't find out Repressor from our index. Can you tell me what page number is it?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:35:34


Post by: Amishprn86


jim300 wrote:
I'm sorry but I can't find out Repressor from our index. Can you tell me what page number is it?


Its in FW, some leaks are out for them, 3rd posts in there is a link.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:37:25


Post by: pretre


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Can you post again?

Yeah so.

Immolator
Magnetized PE Driver to the front for the 'extra armor/wounds'
Magnetized IG Dozer Blade
Magnetized Cupola SB with Immolator HF

All of it is removable so I can swap between Immo/Repressor.

Here's the original of the three I made :

and here's a more recent one after I swapped for more hardy dozers:


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:39:02


Post by: Fixed2bbroken


Looks like a lot of initial lists are leaving Exorcists out. Are they that much worse in 8th or are H.Bolter sisters just better?

Also what happened to Canoness Veridyan?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:41:33


Post by: pretre


Fixed2bbroken wrote:
Looks like a lot of initial lists are leaving Exorcists out. Are they that much worse in 8th or are H.Bolter sisters just better?

Also what happened to Canoness Veridyan?

I take Exorcists at 2000. Basically, I just add 3 of them to my existing list. At 1500, they take up too many points.

Canoness Veridyan basically gave her cool bubble to the normal canoness.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:41:44


Post by: Mavnas


 dracpanzer wrote:
Repressors are an easy conversion from a basic rhino. Couple of pieces of city of death terrain and a heavy flamer and you are all set. Though what Sisters army doesn't love just a bit more bling?


That doesn't add the top bit with the firepoints, does it? I imagine that's the most relevant thing (even though you don't draw LoS from them, they are what makes the vehicle distinctive).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:43:08


Post by: pretre


Mavnas wrote:
 dracpanzer wrote:
Repressors are an easy conversion from a basic rhino. Couple of pieces of city of death terrain and a heavy flamer and you are all set. Though what Sisters army doesn't love just a bit more bling?


That doesn't add the top bit with the firepoints, does it? I imagine that's the most relevant thing (even though you don't draw LoS from them, they are what makes the vehicle distinctive).

My thought on this is that the Immolator/Sister Rhino already has the top bit with the little stain glass windows. For the immolator, they can't reach the firepoints because they are blocked by all the gunnery stuff. For my Rhinos, I use stock rhinos without the top bit to distinguish. It has worked well for years for me.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:44:49


Post by: Amishprn86


Ah, I meant the "look" of the back with the extra high/firing ports.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:50:42


Post by: Shandara


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Ah, I meant the "look" of the back with the extra high/firing ports.


I think they are easily distinguished from normal rhinos if you use those next to the 'raised' immo-Repressors.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:55:00


Post by: pretre


 Shandara wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Ah, I meant the "look" of the back with the extra high/firing ports.


I think they are easily distinguished from normal rhinos if you use those next to the 'raised' immo-Repressors.


Yeah, I've never had a problem with an opponent being able to easily distinguish them.




Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 19:58:07


Post by: Hoitash


On the subject of Forgeworld: are Avenger Strike Fighters still a thing we can take? It's taking me forever to finish painting mine and I'm just curious if there's a point (I'll still finish it of course but figured I'd ask.)


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 20:03:46


Post by: pretre


You can take it in a detachment, but it won't have the Ordo keyword.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 20:43:46


Post by: Amishprn86


Its the look that i wanted tho.




Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 20:51:39


Post by: Mavnas


 pretre wrote:
Mavnas wrote:
 dracpanzer wrote:
Repressors are an easy conversion from a basic rhino. Couple of pieces of city of death terrain and a heavy flamer and you are all set. Though what Sisters army doesn't love just a bit more bling?


That doesn't add the top bit with the firepoints, does it? I imagine that's the most relevant thing (even though you don't draw LoS from them, they are what makes the vehicle distinctive).

My thought on this is that the Immolator/Sister Rhino already has the top bit with the little stain glass windows. For the immolator, they can't reach the firepoints because they are blocked by all the gunnery stuff. For my Rhinos, I use stock rhinos without the top bit to distinguish. It has worked well for years for me.


I mainly bring this up because of a complaint I got one time one time I was fielding an inquisition razorback with TL assault cannon and psybolt ammo. I had modeled it using the GK Psycannon bits since at the time the two weapons had a the same stats. My opponent complainted that it looked too much like a heavy bolter. So I feel like we should definitely be trying hard to make unique stuff distinguishable.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 21:03:05


Post by: pretre


Mavnas wrote:
I mainly bring this up because of a complaint I got one time one time I was fielding an inquisition razorback with TL assault cannon and psybolt ammo. I had modeled it using the GK Psycannon bits since at the time the two weapons had a the same stats. My opponent complainted that it looked too much like a heavy bolter. So I feel like we should definitely be trying hard to make unique stuff distinguishable.

I totally agree. Counts-as/conversions should always be cool, clear and consistent. As long as it meets those three criteria, you should be good to go.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 21:10:50


Post by: Mavnas


I mean I guess on my end, I'd be helped by the fact that I'd be running only one type of vehicle.

I can kind of see running immolators in some scenarios, but rhinos are totally pointless now.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 21:24:28


Post by: jim300


I think Exorcist is still good. T8 W12 is same with RLBT now. And D6 S8 AP-4 is still useful to kill Multiwound model, like terminater. Maybe you can add Hunter-killer if you want to add little anti-tank.

I like HB sister either, but 8th edition is very easy to make spearhead-detachment. Maybe you can take both of it


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/17 21:40:19


Post by: Drider


 pretre wrote:
Mavnas wrote:
I mainly bring this up because of a complaint I got one time one time I was fielding an inquisition razorback with TL assault cannon and psybolt ammo. I had modeled it using the GK Psycannon bits since at the time the two weapons had a the same stats. My opponent complainted that it looked too much like a heavy bolter. So I feel like we should definitely be trying hard to make unique stuff distinguishable.

I totally agree. Counts-as/conversions should always be cool, clear and consistent. As long as it meets those three criteria, you should be good to go.


I second this statement! The rule of cool is the most important rule. It should fit you're army, not be a distraction or an eyesore and at the very least be tabletop quality (i.e. looks fine from 3 foot away).

These are some of mine

Converted 'Sisters' Iron clad Dread I put together to run in a Castellan's but also works well as a counts-as Penitent engine. It's passed the test because of the number of people who've asked if i'm going to roll a shield of faith saves for it.
Spoiler:

Same again, side angle.
Spoiler:

Immolator turret 3D printed conversion part taking inspiration from the MK1 Immolator and making use of the 'spare' hatch from the vehicle sprue
Spoiler:

3D printed top plate which after painting is very hard to tell from the original.
Spoiler:


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 01:03:15


Post by: dracpanzer


Mavnas wrote:
 dracpanzer wrote:
Repressors are an easy conversion from a basic rhino. Couple of pieces of city of death terrain and a heavy flamer and you are all set. Though what Sisters army doesn't love just a bit more bling?


That doesn't add the top bit with the firepoints, does it? I imagine that's the most relevant thing (even though you don't draw LoS from them, they are what makes the vehicle distinctive).


I think this fits the bill. Rule of cool says bling up your Sisters vehicles, but even if you strip down the armor plating, it looks like a repressor.





Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 01:21:12


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Yeah, I'm thinking of printing out a top "bunker" for my Rhinos, and using the recoil spades that came with my Basilisks to make Repressors. I'm going to need many, one for every Dominion team!

 dracpanzer wrote:

I think this fits the bill. Rule of cool says bling up your Sisters vehicles, but even if you strip down the armor plating, it looks like a repressor.

Spoiler:




Nice! Using the Exorcist panels is a nice touch. I might have to go ahead and do that.

Also, I went down the to store, where they were running an event at 500 points. I can't call it a tournament, since it wasn't, there was no ranking, and there was nothing on the line, but it started out pretty organized with everyone handing in a list, the organizer shuffling them up, then dealing us out in random pairs to tables. There were a lot of us. I'm not sure if I was fortunate enough to get 2 games or unfortunate enough to only get 2 games, considering how many more people there were and how little comparative table space there was. I think there was like 3 or 4 times the number of pairs as there were tables.

I was playing my Imperial Guard tanks, which I haven't actually played in a year, not my Sisters though. I couldn't put together a 500 point Sisters list I was legitimately happy with. I felt like, no matter what permutation I tried, I couldn't strike a satisfying balance of antitank, anti-elite infantry, and anti-horde.

The other Sisters player was there, running Celestine +2 Geminae, 5x Seraphim, and 5x Sisters w/ 2 Flamers in a Immolation Flamer Immolator. I'm not sure how well it did.

Anyway, my battle reports, re-posted from the IG thread, if anyone's interested.
Spoiler:

Battle Reports, on the subject of Leman Russes:

I played 2 games today, 500 points.

My List:
1x Pask Battle Tank, Multimeltas, Lascannon, Storm Bolter
1x Leman Russ Punisher, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolter
5x Stormtroopers, Volleygun

First Game, vs. Space Marines
Enemy List:
10x Tac Marines, Plasmagun, Lascannon
6x Tac Marines, Missile Launcher
3x Bikers, I forgot what their upgrades were, and it didn't matter
1x Company Captain

The board: We had a big chaos fortress on my opponents side, a contiguous wall that basically spanned his entire deployment region, and a Wall of Martyrs line anchored by Imperial Bastions on mine. It was pretty cool. Smack in the middle of the Chaos fortress, between two watchtowers, was a gate that in the open position. In between the lines was a big field of craters.

I set up around one of the Bastions, using it as cover for the tanks. He sets up his big squad on the battlements of the fortress, small squad behind the wall, and bikes in the open gate. The Captain is hiding behind the small Tactical team.

I went first because I had fewer drops. Straightforward that way, he didn't seize.
IG1: Tanks advance a bit into Multimelta range. Pask rolls crap on the Battle Cannon, but between the Multimeltas, Lascannon, and the 1 Battle Cannon shot I did make, I erase the bikes. They fail their saves and cease to exist.Punisher opens up on the Tac Squad with Lascannon and Plasmagun, who are hiding on the battlements for a 2+, and kills 3. Stormies stay in reserve.
SM1: Shoot at Pask with the Lascannon. No effect. Small tac squad moves into the open gate of the big chaos fortress. Shoot at Pask with the missile launcher, causes 3 wounds.
IG2: I drop in the scions to assassinate his Warlord, but have no effect. The Pask takes a chunk out of the little squad, and the Punisher dramatically overkills what's left of it. I should have fired the gatling cannon at the guys on the battlements and let battleshock finish the guys in the gate, but no loss, no foul.
SM2: The Tac squad climbs down from the battlements. The Captain charges the Scions, flubs and kills 2.
IG3: As the remaining tac squad is hiding out of LoS behind the battlements, I'll have to go through the gate, the only way onto his side of the board, with my tanks, so they move up to midfield. The scions fall back, and the Captain, who is the only visible model, gets turned into bloody giblets by Pask and his Battle Cannon.
SM3: His remaining tac guys execute my stormtroopers.
IG4: Tanks move into the gate.
SM4: Marines climb back up onto the battlements, then fire and overcharge their plasmagun, taking a huge chunk out of Pask, dropping him to 3 wounds. I burn a command point to re-roll his save, but it doesn't do anything.
IG5: Tanks move to get a better line of fire. I burn a CP to re-roll the number of Battle Cannon shots, and do okay, killing one. The Punisher rips up even more of them, and there's 2 of them left. He passes battleshock though.
SM5: He fires his last Lascannon and Plasmagun on overcharge, and kills Pask's tank.
IG6: Punisher tank kills remaining Space Marines.

IG Victory.

Debrief: Punisher was less effective than I liked, and he messed up by not charging my tanks when they came through the gate. Hitting on 5's with the Punisher's secondaries was nasty, though. Stormies were useless.


Second Game, vs. Orks
Enemy List
30x Boyz, 3x Big Shootas.
1x Wierdboy
1x Warboss
1x Painboy
1x Bubblechucka
5x Tankbustaz

I ended up assigned to the same table, so it looks about the same. The deployment pattern changed to having the rectangles at diagonal to each other, and we moved around the bastions, trench, and giant chaos fortress pieces [it was made out of like 4 sections of curtain wall, 2 tall watchtowers, 2 gates, and another section of big section of wall with an angle in it and a staircase on the back. It was so damn massive, I wish I had a Manticore and Wyvern so badly.], but it was pretty much the same sort of thing. We made a second hole in the chaos fortress wall, because that thing was obnoxiously big and the one gate was annoying.

Again, I set up clustered behind a Bastion, and set up my Stormtroopers on the Bastion parapet to shield the tanks from "Da Jump". He put his tankbustaz and bubblechucka on the battlements, and hid the rest of his big mob out of LoS behind the Chaos curtain wall.

I went first again:
IG1: Pask shoots the Bubblechucka, rolls crap on the Battle Cannon, I burn a CP and still get a 2. He kills 2 grots manning the gun. Punisher annihilates the Tankbustaz entirely with the gatling gun. Again, I should have targeted something else with the Heavy Bolters.
Orks1: Da-Jump happens, bringing the big mob in front of my tanks. He shoots the tanks with the Bubblechucka, and manages 2 wounds on Pask. He charges the Punisher with his big mob, fails the charge, re-rolls, and still fails. He loses 5 guys to my total overwatch. The Wierdboy charges, takes 2 wounds from overwatch, and then whiffs at the tank.
IG2: Punisher falls back. Stormies kill the Wierdboy. Pask rolls crap on the Battle Cannon again, and I burn a CP to get a 4. He kills a few Boyz.
Orks2: The boyz kill 3 Stormies, and the remaining 2 are removed by battleshock. They fail a 7" charge to get to Pask, spend a CP to re-roll, and still fail. Warboss and his attendant come out of the gate on the Chaos fortress. Bubblechucka fails to do anything.
IG3: Punisher, feeling better, erases the orkz. When it didn't move, and wasn't hitting on 5's with the Heavy Bolters and Storm Bolter, it was absolutely terrifying. It killed so many of them, and dropped the squad to a half-dozen models. Pask splits fire, using his Storm Bolter and Multimeltas on the Boyz and his Lascannon and Battle Cannon on the Mek Gun. The Boys are dropped to 3 models, and the Mek gun loses a single grot, because the Battle Cannon rolls crappy again. Boyz fail battleshock and are wiped.
Orks3: Mek Gun rolls well, sticks a hard hit on the Punisher because Pask is out of LoS behind the Bastion, but that's it.

Orks concede, IG Victory.

Debrief: Punisher was amazing. It shredded the orks. Pask's battle cannon was less so. Stormies were slightly less useless, but still useless.




More on Tanks, from the battle going on next to me during the second round of matches, IG vs. Deathwatch
I wasn't paying particularly close attention, but the IG player's list looked somewhat similar to mine. He had a Pask Vanquisher with all the trappings, some Stormtroopers, and some rough riders. The Deathwatch guy had a Razorback, a Dreadnought, and the guys in the Razorback.

Their board didn't have a giant goddamn wall across it blocking Line of Sight, and was instead populated by promethium pipes and tall, but very thin, towers with decks at the top.

The IG guy seized the initiative and cracked open the razorback on turn 1. The Stormies annihilated the guys who got out.
The Deathwatch Dreadnought went after the Rough Riders, and the Watch Captain went after the stormies. The rough riders got their ass handed to them
There was a bit of melee through turn 2, but nothing much
Pask demolished the Dreadnought on turn 3, when it got out of combat with the rough riders.

The Deathwatch conceded.



One more, from the table next to me, in the first round of matches, on transports. Orks vs. Black Templar
The Ork list had Ghazskull, a big mob of boyz, and some Lootaz. The BT had Helbrecht and a squad inside a Rhino, and a Dreadnought.

The BT went first, and rushed the Rhino up the board at all-ahead full.
The Orks ran up and charged the Rhino, completely surrounding it. They exploded it right there with a metric crap-ton of dice, and a big argument ensued about what happened to the guys inside it. In the end, only Helbrecht and one of his buddies survived, because the Orks were surrounding it so thoroughly. The Lootas took a chunk off the Dreadnought.
The Dready ran in to save Helbrecht, and the two killed some Orks. Ghazskull ripped the Dready apart, then, Ghazskull ripped Helbrecht apart, and that was game.

Moral of the story: Circle up your wagons!



Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 01:39:03


Post by: Twoshoes23


Anyone notice you cant put hospilaters, imaginfiers, or any of the Ministorum troops, i.e: Arco-flaggelents, death cults, crusaders in a Repressor because none of them have the <order> key word. Possible benefit to rhinos, most of those things can't shoot out firing points anyway. I am bummed I cant stick my hospitaller in with my retributors and cannonness though


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 01:55:41


Post by: Amishprn86


Yep, I have a Rhino with that 1st game i'm going to play with 7 Repentia, Mistress, Imagifier, Priest. B.c that will be fun (not really the best, but fun). And i have like 15 of those model i've never played with before lol


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 02:51:46


Post by: pretre


Anyone notice that Repressors can take two heavy flamers now? So for 107, you truly are better than an immolator in every respect for 1 point less.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 02:56:52


Post by: Amishprn86


Yeah I saw that, im using my Immolators as Repressors for now lol.... no reason not to take Repressors.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 03:01:06


Post by: Twoshoes23


Shhhhhh or they will nerf it


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 03:08:18


Post by: Amishprn86


They might :(


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 03:09:57


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 pretre wrote:
Anyone notice that Repressors can take two heavy flamers now? So for 107, you truly are better than an immolator in every respect for 1 point less.


Wait, what?

Oh yeah, sweet. Going to see about fitting those dozer blades onto my Immolators, then! I may have to remove the hedgerow plows.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 03:12:07


Post by: Mavnas


Immolation flamer has better range, doesn't it?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 03:33:49


Post by: Amishprn86


Mavnas wrote:
Immolation flamer has better range, doesn't it?


12" vs 8"


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 03:41:55


Post by: Twoshoes23


As someone who just played a game of 4inches can make a difference (obligatory that's what she said joke)


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 03:50:30


Post by: ERJAK


 pretre wrote:
Anyone notice that Repressors can take two heavy flamers now? So for 107, you truly are better than an immolator in every respect for 1 point less.


You're paying 1 point less to be slightly worse. The immolation flamer is both Assault and 12" range making it significantly better than 2 heavy flamers and neither the SB or the Dozer blade really make up for it.

The power of the repressor is what you put inside of it which means heavy flamers or standard meltaguns because multi-meltas would make it huge, juicy target while not being significantly superior to regular melta. The repressor here is pretty goddam powerful but it's also very 'eggs in one basket' and suffers from the same issue it's always had where you get wrapped up by a big melee squad and get the troops inside killed which the immolator doesn't have to deal with.

I'd say 1 to 1 the repressor is probably better than the immo but I think it has some pretty big diminishing returns in an edition where huge hordes wrapping up a transport before killing it AND the girls inside is more prevelant.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 04:11:19


Post by: Twoshoes23


Maybe they will bring the model kit back? Keep the faith, this edition has delivered us to a new promised land. Anything possible!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 05:06:03


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


With regards to not being encircled and destroyed, circle the wagons.

Form up the transports into a ring, so that the assaulting enemies can't move into the middle region, which forms a safe place to unload all their troops when the transports are destroyed.

Also, since troops can fire out of the Repressor, flamers on board might be able to help it torch its way out of CQC if it absolutely has to. I'd still be careful, though.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 06:34:10


Post by: MacPhail


Just played my third game of 8th... 1000 points vs Orks. He was down to a single Boss Nob by the end of Turn 2. Everything impressed me. Canoness + HB Rets + Exorcist is a brutal long-range hammer. Vanguard melta Doms still wreck a target of your choice (in this case, a Deff Dred). Seraphim force a ton of saves for their points. Three vehicle hulls on the table at 1000 points is a lot. His warbikes were awesome and would have torn apart my flank, but holy smokes, Sky Striking plasma Scions are absolutely devastating.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 06:37:57


Post by: Fafnir


Coming from my first two 8th edition games, both against nids at 850 points (the Tyranid player used different lists for each game), I have to say that I'm pretty happy with sisters. My list was as follows:

(Outrider Detachment, 827 points)
HQ

Celestine (Geminae Superia*2)
Canoness (Eviscerator, Combi-Plasma)

Elites
Vindicare Assassin

Fast Attack
Dominions*5 (Melta*4, Combi-Melta)
Dominions*5 (Flamers*2, Stormbolters*2, Combi-Flamer)
Dominions*5 (Stormbolters*5)

Transports
Repressor (Heavy Flamers*2, Stormbolter)

A few points:

-Flamers are mediocre, stormbolters are the new hotness. With flamers throwing out 3.5 hits on average at 8" or less, stormbolters do comparable damage (they actually do more within 8" if a Canoness is giving rerolling 1s) while being potent all the way up to 24". Flamers are only really useful for overwatch, but even that goes up in smoke if the chargers are coming from beyond 8". And all of this is before you even consider that stormbolters cost less than half as much as flamers. Meltas, especially in the hands of 5 Dominions are everything you would expect of them; expensive, but worth every point and then some when you need something dead NOW.

-Repressors are potent, but not as ridiculous as some people may have feared. The ability to use fire points is really nice, but it does come at the cost of losing access to acts of faith, overwatch, and synergy buffs. It's a tradeoff of the raw power and range of the individual sisters and Immolator respectively in favour of a more versatile all-rounder. In both of the games I played, I have a strong feeling that an Immolator would have performed better, although the Repressor still ended up working out quite well. While I still think that I'll need to play around with it a bit more before I get a really good idea of its value, I don't think that it's particularly OP by any regard.

-Celestine is ridiculously good. It's nice to have a unit as capable as she is, but she's pretty much necessary for any Sisters list to be considered remotely competitive, and I'm not a fan of units being auto-include.

-Canoness is a solid buff giver, but she needs access to a jump pack. Its ridiculous that GW took this away in the first place, and it really hurts her niche in 8th edition. She's already playing a pretty distant second fiddle to Celestine, the lack of mobility is just a kick in the head.

-Dominions are really good. Their role changes entirely with their loadout, and they do it all pretty well. Between them and Retributors, I don't see much of a point of ever taking the standard sister. Celestians also look to just be a costlier version of the standard sister. With no dedicated close combat tools and a standard S3/T3 statline, the increased WS and attacks values are put entirely to waste, and the bodyguard ability isn't anything to cry home about, especially in an army as offensively focused as the Sisters are.

-I didn't get to use Seraphim, but they look like they could be pretty good. Using the same slot as Dominions means that there's some pretty healthy competition for those FOC slots. I can't see myself using Seraphim as the core of an army, but one or two units acting as interference could be effective.

-While not an SoB model himself, the Vindicare proved to be pretty underwhelming. Even when you discount bad rolling (he never actually managed to hit a single model that wasn't a gaunt after everything was wiped out anyway with shooting in both games I played him, even burning command points for every shot), he doesn't strike me as being particularly potent. D3 damage per turn just does not strike me as being enough damage to get the job done properly, and it's entirely without a role if your opponent can find a way to deny you shots at their characters. Surprisingly good in close combat, however. It feels like the best assassins are going to be the Eversor for just killing things dead, and the Culexus for tying things up with that sweet, sweet Etherium.

-Without relying on units outside the faction, Ministorum psychic defenses are pathetic. You're going to want to look outside your comfort zone for this, some powers out there are straight up vicious (this goes right back to reinforcing the value of the above-mentioned Culexus).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 13:52:41


Post by: Amishprn86


From reading and seeing other so far.

Storm Bolters on BSS
HB's on Rets
Dom either Flamer or Melta depending what you want
Exorcist are still good

Repressors and Immolators are both good and most likely should take each.

Canoness are good as well, but put these with Doms/Rets


@Fafnir FoC are easy to get now, we can take the 6 FA one and another FoC if we need too.

I have a friend that played the Vindicare Assassin for 3-4 games and we both agree it doesnt really do much, its very hit or miss.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 14:10:37


Post by: ncshooter426


For those with 3d printers, i am making the repressor top piece now in cad. will release on thingiverse when done, should make your conversions a little nicer


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 14:21:29


Post by: pretre


ERJAK wrote:
 pretre wrote:
Anyone notice that Repressors can take two heavy flamers now? So for 107, you truly are better than an immolator in every respect for 1 point less.


You're paying 1 point less to be slightly worse. The immolation flamer is both Assault and 12" range making it significantly better than 2 heavy flamers and neither the SB or the Dozer blade really make up for it.

The power of the repressor is what you put inside of it which means heavy flamers or standard meltaguns because multi-meltas would make it huge, juicy target while not being significantly superior to regular melta. The repressor here is pretty goddam powerful but it's also very 'eggs in one basket' and suffers from the same issue it's always had where you get wrapped up by a big melee squad and get the troops inside killed which the immolator doesn't have to deal with.

I'd say 1 to 1 the repressor is probably better than the immo but I think it has some pretty big diminishing returns in an edition where huge hordes wrapping up a transport before killing it AND the girls inside is more prevelant.

Wait, wait wait.

1 point less, heavy and 4" less range. That's the difference, and fair enough for the parts I missed. You gain more wounds, better dozer/WS, fire points, etc.

Your second paragraph is true of pretty much any transport that you shoot out of. That being said, I'd rather try for the survivability. And here's my secret... If you're going to get wrapped and killed? Disembark or move to somewhere where that won't happen. But for most of the rest of the time, use your nice mobile bunker.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 14:33:06


Post by: Amishprn86


 ncshooter426 wrote:
For those with 3d printers, i am making the repressor top piece now in cad. will release on thingiverse when done, should make your conversions a little nicer


OH!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 15:43:52


Post by: ncshooter426


RoninXiC wrote:
The passengers cannot fire overwatch. They are not the target of the charge, the transport is.


That makes no sense. When embarked, they are treated as one unit. Movement of the transport impacts the shooting phase of troops, explosions damage troops etc. They only unbind after disembarking.

If there are firing points, the unit inside IS the transport, and can fire. If its enclosed, then they would have no idea and would not fire. Same for open top, the sure as hell would shoot.

If gw changed that rule, that is beyond stupid.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 15:55:19


Post by: pretre


The more I look at it, the more I think that the Repressor and Immolator are pretty balanced to each other.

Immo can move a bit faster and still shoot. Repressor is tougher but slower and people can shoot out.

The fact that I'm torn between the two is good design.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 16:28:41


Post by: RabbitMaster


To me the repressor is vastly better than the immolator. So far I did not find that either the ability to advance+shoot or the extra 4" range to be that big of a deal. Also the 2 games I played them I actually went first, so there is some bias here.
And sure I can't AoF the dominions themselves while embarked, but my AoF usually go elsewhere anyway (Rets, Seraphims, etc...).

On the other hand:
- shooting without needing to disembark is huge.
- the extra 2W is pretty good.
- the dozer blade is amazing. I use to charge with tanks to absorb overwatch or force unit to fall back, dealing 9 attacks S6 AP-1 to an infantry unit is actually something. Specially against T3 when you wound on 2+;
- having the repressor being able to fall back while the unit inside can still shoot is huge.
- the extra stormbolter (when taking 2 HF) is a small bonus too.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 16:36:09


Post by: pretre


I thought it was just roll three times for each attack and pick the best. 3 times the number of attacks is pretty awesome.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 17:03:52


Post by: RoninXiC


Nono
For each attack roll 3 attack die. 3*3 = 9 attacks.
So the repressor is "okay" in melee. At least a lot better than any of our other tanks.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 17:44:51


Post by: Fafnir


 Amishprn86 wrote:

@Fafnir FoC are easy to get now, we can take the 6 FA one and another FoC if we need too.


While I'm aware of this part, since I feel Sisters are the type of army that's really going to want to get the most out of MSU, slot competition is something that might actually be possible, depending on the detachments you're using.

I have a friend that played the Vindicare Assassin for 3-4 games and we both agree it doesnt really do much, its very hit or miss.


It feels like you need at least two on the table in order to get their job done with how fast the game moves now, but at that investment, Assassins stop being such a good deal and other options look so much more appealing.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 18:59:38


Post by: Melissia


I'm probably alone here, but I still feel footslogging Sisters are much more viable than they have been in over a decade. Not sure I'd argue they're better than MSU sisters, but with battle sisters being fairly cheap and arguably more durable (with the AP system's revamp and the addition of hospitallers and dialogous) and the buff aura of the canoness, I feel they can accomplish more than they have been able to in a long time.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 19:11:05


Post by: pretre


They are more viable, but I don't know that a wholly footslogging force is very good.

I'm using a mix of foot and mech and I think that will be in a good place.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 19:18:05


Post by: Melissia


 pretre wrote:
They are more viable, but I don't know that a wholly footslogging force is very good.

I'm using a mix of foot and mech and I think that will be in a good place.

Well yeah, not wholly footslogging. You still want dominions and seraphim for example, and crusaders or repentia in transports as a counter-charge unit perhaps (more leaning towards crusaders atm).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 19:28:02


Post by: Voldrak


Played against Necrons this weekend.

I setup a gunline with my retributors flanked by my seraphims and Celestine. All my dominions moved to the center of table.

What he did was use the Deceiver to pop himself and two Nightscythes right behind me (he rolled a 2 for his units to redeploy). He had turn one so he then dropped two big units of lychguards right behind my lines and managed to assault me turn 1.

I managed to table him in the end, but it was luck and bad play on his part. Both of his Nightscythes had to move up at least 20 inches and that put them right behind my Dominions. I disembarked them and then took the 2 scythers down with the help of the immolators. That meant 400 ish points of his army automatically died since they were in some sort of tomb world reserve and no longer could arrive via the flyers.

I ended up kiting him for the rest of the game as I fed small units to his lychguards, deceiver and overlords in my backline. The immolators 12 inche range meant I could keep them far from each other, to prevent multi charges, and still shoot them.

Highlight was Celestine dying turn 2 to the Deceiver and Overlord charging her, failing her 2+ miraculous intervention and rolling a second 1 after using a command point.


I don't think there is a better tank between the Immolator or Repressor. They provide totally different styles of play where you're either very aggressive or very defensive. I will probably be playing two of each in my games, for my dominion squads, to make up my mind.

Oh and please don't make the mistake of thinking the Repressor is good in assault. It's better than the wet noodles that the Immolators and Rhinos are for sure, but it should only ever be in assault if you are going to survive the round of combat your opponent gets on it and you absolutely need to tie down the unit it charges of a turn. Having to fall back on the next turn means his heavy flamer(s) go to waste and if there was a unit inside it might end up doing nothing for a turn. Disembarking, when there are enemy models around your tank, leaves little room for the tank to fallback after.





Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 19:29:25


Post by: Amishprn86


What units would work best do you think in Immolators and Repressors?

Between
BBS: SB and/or 2 Meltas or 2 Flamers
Dom's: Melta and/or SB
Ret: HFs and/or HB


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 20:51:40


Post by: pretre


BSS in immos.
Doms in repressors.
Rets walking or with repressors.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 20:52:54


Post by: Mavnas


 Amishprn86 wrote:
What units would work best do you think in Immolators and Repressors?

Between
BBS: SB and/or 2 Meltas or 2 Flamers
Dom's: Melta and/or SB
Ret: HFs and/or HB


Remember, with combi weapons being a thing BSS can effectively take 3 specials for only 2 points more. (You don't have to fire the bolt gun part so you can avoid the -1 for firing both. Or if it's a flamer... fire away.)


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 20:59:28


Post by: Melissia


Yeah, combiflamer there's no reason not to fire the boltgun part.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/18 21:46:42


Post by: Amishprn86


AH yeah, honestly forgot they can do that, i do have 5 combi models


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 07:41:46


Post by: ERJAK


A 5 melta domi squad in a repressor is probably the nastiest driveby in the game, don't get too close to hordes though, that's a lot of points to lose if you get wrapped up.

Rets with HF would be pretty beastly too but again, getting that close to infantry makes me nervous.

SB...you're probably better off just jumping them out of an immo.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 07:54:27


Post by: Mavnas


ERJAK wrote:
A 5 melta domi squad in a repressor is probably the nastiest driveby in the game, don't get too close to hordes though, that's a lot of points to lose if you get wrapped up.

Rets with HF would be pretty beastly too but again, getting that close to infantry makes me nervous.

SB...you're probably better off just jumping them out of an immo.


I'm still not sold on melta this edition. It's barely better than a lascannon against heavy vehicles at 6" worse further out. Consider that for 64 points you can ally in a Scion command squad with 4 plasma guns and deep strike them anywhere. For the 200ish points you'd pay for 5 melta guns you could have 8 plasma guns along with an officer to give them rerolls. I mean those guys will die the turn after, but their firepower is so much more impressive :(


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 09:12:41


Post by: Fafnir


Depends on what you're fighting. If you're going after terminators or other elite infantry, sure, Plasma will get that job done just fine and with greater efficiency. But if someone drops a Flyrant or Trygon right outside your deployment zone, nothing is going to deal with it as efficiently or definitely as a melta fusilade. And no one does melta like Sisters do melta.

In slower moving editions, you could afford to plink away at big scary monsters over time. But with the rate that things move and are moved off of the table in 8th, the ability to put an immediate stop to such monsters is huge, especially since you're bound to have multiple knocking on your door at any given time.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 10:02:08


Post by: Amishprn86


Yep with Nids, tau and others that can Drop large wound models on your back door, you need to deal with it asap otherwise it will just run amuk around hurting you.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 10:35:31


Post by: Mavnas


Yeah... so overcharged plasma puts more wounds on them than melta. Especially if you're bringing twice the number of guns for the points.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 11:02:18


Post by: ERJAK


Mavnas wrote:
Yeah... so overcharged plasma puts more wounds on them than melta. Especially if you're bringing twice the number of guns for the points.



A plasmagun in rapid fire range does .92 wounds on average to a T4 3+ model melta gun does 1.94 without the roll 2d6. Also, are scion's Plasma guns really only 7-8 points?

Plasma's better at killing 1-2 wound infantry, Melta does way more to anything with 4 wounds or more. Melta gun also benefits more from Command Points.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 11:18:49


Post by: Mavnas


ERJAK wrote:
Mavnas wrote:
Yeah... so overcharged plasma puts more wounds on them than melta. Especially if you're bringing twice the number of guns for the points.



A plasmagun in rapid fire range does .92 wounds on average to a T4 3+ model melta gun does 1.94 without the roll 2d6. Also, are scion's Plasma guns really only 7-8 points?

Plasma's better at killing 1-2 wound infantry, Melta does way more to anything with 4 wounds or more. Melta gun also benefits more from Command Points.


We're talking about big targets here. Overcharged they're both S8. The only difference is plasma allows 3+ things a 6+ (a difference that goes away if they have invuln saves) and then it does 2 damage vs. d6 (3.5), but once you go to 2 shots for every melta shot, that's 4 vs 3.5 or 5/6 * 4 vs 3.5 (given the tiny differences, I'm not sure how you're seeing such a big discrepancy). The 2d6, drop lowest only bumps average damage to 4.5.

And yes, guard only pay 7 points per plasma gun... and 12 for meltas. SM only pay 2 points for stormbolters to our 4, inquisition does too (but I think both pay the same for plasma/melta). Plasma is nuts if you overcharge it, but that does really require expendable models or rerolls as plasma just now kills the user with no save on a 1 (and really, really messes up some vehicles too).

Here's the crazy thing, if you roll up to a tank and shoot it with 4 melta guns, in the old days you had a decent chance of exploding it. Now, you get 4 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3.5 = 4.666. Even with the combi melta for a 5th shot, you shouldn't expect to more than halfway kill it. 5 shots, at 6" or less will do 10 wounds on average to a rhino (or other T7 3+) but anything heavier will probably survive unless you roll well and you can only reroll one die per phase.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 13:55:50


Post by: pretre


I agree that there are proper cheaper options for imperials, but we're talking the SOB thread here. So what do we have that is cheaper? Also, we could start adding Combi-Plasma to our Dom squads.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 14:19:27


Post by: MacPhail


 pretre wrote:
I agree that there are proper cheaper options for imperials, but we're talking the SOB thread here. So what do we have that is cheaper? Also, we could start adding Combi-Plasma to our Dom squads.


It's sad to say, but I'll have a hard time fielding Sisters as Troops now that I've seen how other Factions perform in that role. I do like that the BSS is most of the way to a Dom squad minus the Vanguard move now that combis fire every turn. That might earn them a spot on my roster. If I were to go anti-horde MSU gunline, then yes, the BSS F/HF/CF wall o' fire would be clutch. Other than that, my Troops slots will likely go to "Inquisitorial" plasma Scion spam.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 14:29:00


Post by: Melissia


I won't. Battle Sisters Squads became cheaper and, with the addition of a canoness and dialogous giving their buffs, are quite durable for their points. And you should seriously never doubt the power of packing boltguns over lasguns like you were some kind of space marine player. They're quite solid troops choices for killing 1-wound infantry (which IMO is all the more reason to go wtih meltaguns, since Sisters don't really have a problem killing 1-wound infantry anyway, and unlike plasmaguns, you don't need to risk overcharge on meltaguns to get the effect). Battle Sisters aren't the omgwtfbbq bets unti evar, but they're a solid choice now that they're cheaper and get more passive buffs from the characters in the army.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 14:55:17


Post by: MacPhail


 Melissia wrote:
I won't. Battle Sisters Squads became cheaper and, with the addition of a canoness and dialogous giving their buffs, are quite durable for their points. And you should seriously never doubt the power of packing boltguns over lasguns like you were some kind of space marine player. They're quite solid troops choices for killing 1-wound infantry (which IMO is all the more reason to go wtih meltaguns, since Sisters don't really have a problem killing 1-wound infantry anyway, and unlike plasmaguns, you don't need to risk overcharge on meltaguns to get the effect). Battle Sisters aren't the omgwtfbbq bets unti evar, but they're a solid choice now that they're cheaper and get more passive buffs from the characters in the army.


Yeah, I definitely want to try to 15-strong footslogging squad, the 3x storm bolter squad, and the double BSS squads with F/HF/CF packed liked sardines into a single Rhino option. Boltguns are awesome this edition, especially vs. 1-wound infantry. I haven't tried boosting them with a Canoness, as she's been awesome standing in the back between HB Rets and an Exorcist. So yeah, don't write off the BSS, but they've got competition if you aren't a Sororitas purist... I was very glad to have some plasma guns rapid firing, re-rolling ones, dishing out overcharged 2-damage hits when I suddenly had two squads of T5 2-wound Ork warbikers on my flank.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 15:20:00


Post by: deviantduck


 Hoitash wrote:
On the subject of Forgeworld: are Avenger Strike Fighters still a thing we can take? It's taking me forever to finish painting mine and I'm just curious if there's a point (I'll still finish it of course but figured I'd ask.)


It will be in the FW: Astra Militarum Index that drops Saturday.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Index-Astra-Militarum-2017

As Pretre said, it will most likely not have any valuable keywords for us other than <Imperial>. We don't have any of its rules yet.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 15:45:09


Post by: pretre


 MacPhail wrote:
now that combis fire every turn.

Holy crap, combis fire every turn? How did I miss that?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 15:52:10


Post by: Melissia


Yeah they aren't limited to one use any more. They're basically another special weapon for the squad, that can also fire a boltgun if the user takes a -1 to-hit modifier.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 15:53:21


Post by: deviantduck


 pretre wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:
now that combis fire every turn.

Holy crap, combis fire every turn? How did I miss that?


Not only every turn, but both weapons if you take a -1 to hit on them both. So combi flamers get to fire the flamer and the bolter at -1 every turn.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 15:56:39


Post by: Melissia


Yep. Combiweapons are a no-brainer upgrade for Sisters right now IMO. The debate isn't whether or not to have one, it's which one to take XD


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 16:13:55


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Mavnas wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
A 5 melta domi squad in a repressor is probably the nastiest driveby in the game, don't get too close to hordes though, that's a lot of points to lose if you get wrapped up.

Rets with HF would be pretty beastly too but again, getting that close to infantry makes me nervous.

SB...you're probably better off just jumping them out of an immo.


I'm still not sold on melta this edition. It's barely better than a lascannon against heavy vehicles at 6" worse further out. Consider that for 64 points you can ally in a Scion command squad with 4 plasma guns and deep strike them anywhere. For the 200ish points you'd pay for 5 melta guns you could have 8 plasma guns along with an officer to give them rerolls. I mean those guys will die the turn after, but their firepower is so much more impressive :(


Me neither. But I'm really not sold on shooting tanks with bolters and flamers, after my first few games, so I think I'm still going to have to bring a ton of Meltaguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, on Combi-Plas, keep in mind die roll modifiers occur before the determination of whether or not you blow up. Therefore, if you fire it and the boltgun and you roll a 2, you blow up. Be careful.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 17:01:51


Post by: Drider


Also anything that gives you a -1 to hit, 2s become 1s after the reroll.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 17:06:47


Post by: MacPhail


Totally agreed on the no-brainer combi-weapon upgrade. Props to the OG combi-flamer battle sister.



Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 17:07:44


Post by: Rynner


I had a chance to play in a 12 man RTT this Sunday. I decided to take my sisters.

I would up going 2-1, only losing because I didn’t realize I couldn’t vanguard move my Immolaters if anyone without that rule was in that tank and that you couldn’t drop the relic once you had it.

Anyway my list was:

Battalion:
Celestine + 2 Gemni
1x Canoness, Flamer, Power Maul
3x 5 Women BSS, Heavy Flamer, Melta, Combi Melta, Immolaters w/flamers
2x Imgafiers
1x 5 Woman Ret Squad with 4x Heavy Bolters, Immolater w/flamers

Spearhead:
1x Cannoness, Combi Melta, Power Maul
1x 5 Woman Dom Squad, 4x Melta, 1x Combi Melta, Repressor
1x 5 Woman Dom Squad, 4x Melta, 1x Combi Melta, Immolater w/flammers
1x 5 Woman Dom Squad, 4x Flamers, 1x Combi Flamer, Immolater w/flammers
1x 5 Woman Seraphim Squad w/2x hand flamers

The Immolaters performed amazingly. 2d6 shots with a minimum 25" threat range is amazing. They can kill anything and with St. Celestine near by to give them a 5++ they are quite durable.

The BSS squads almost never got out unless they had to or where shot out. They just weren’t needed. The tanks and Celestine did most of the damage.

Seraphim are great as a counter assault or pile in unit. Being able to shoot 4d6 hand flamers in combat can really help to break critical units out of combat so they don’t have to fall back and can still fire.

Celestine is awesome as always. She never gave up warlord.

The Retibutors were garbage. They almost never did anything worth while. They were too static for the list and almost always died to reserves or a stiff breeze.

Acts of faith are great but kind of annoying to play because you have to start out side your right and because you basically have a turn before a turn.




Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 17:20:01


Post by: sfshilo


Playing around with this:
Brigade (+9 CP)

HQ:
2x cannonesses with combi-melta and power mauls
1x cannoness with bolt pistol and power sword

Troops:
3x Battlesisters with flamer and storm bolter, squad leaders with plasma pistols and chainswords
1x Squad with 2x flamers and squad leader with combi flamer
1x squads with heavy bolter (backline unit)
1x squad basic (backline again)

Elite:
3x Imagifiers

Fast Attack
Dominion squad with melta melta melta melta combi-melta
2x serapham with power sword and hand flamer (Min squad)

Heavy support
1x Exorcist
2x penitant engines

Dedicated transports:
3x immolators with twin melta
1x immolator with immolation flamer

The repressor looks good, not sure I like the range of heavy flamers since they are heavy.... Immolation flamer at least can advance and has 4 extra inches, so you are looking at 5-10 inches more range out of the immolator compared to the repressor.

Repressor seems like more of a heavy weapons or special weapons platform? With special weapons though you still have the range issue, I'd probably not spend points on the second heavy flamer since you could put in 2 normal flamers inside the tank or just take Retributers with heavy bolters and use an act of faith to move them at the start of the turn.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 17:42:29


Post by: Drider


My club also had a bit of a launch party on Sunday. I got a couple of games in playing.

First game was vs admech at 1000 points, but I missread my list and only brought 856 points worth of stuff and i'm looking at it on the table thinking i know i've fethed something up because this isn't a legal detatchment but just went for it with no command points. Took him to a draw on points and he had 1 model left at the end of the game.

Second game Vs CSM at 1000 points and i actually brought 1000 points with me this time. Tabled him.

Both games the tactic was turn 1 double move Big C and seraphim, BBQ/shoot any screening unit then use the seraphim to lock as many of the shooty things in combat as possible while Big C just goes beast mode and kills litterally everything.

The Admech game i managed to fail my 2+ AoF and didn't have command points for rerolls, so i got doubled moved the seraphim and locked up as much as i could. big C got in on turn 2 and by the end of turn 3 double assaults from celestine and double shooting from the seraphim, Big C had ripped Cawl a new one and cleaned up everything that didn't fall back.

The CSM game i didn't fail my turn 1 2+ AoF, double moved, WTFBBQed the cultists screening and smashed a CSM tac squad and a heavy weapon squad. she then Double moved back to my deployment to take care of a squad of obliteraters and terminators. the last terminator managed to kill her and trigger her respawn who then got promptly cleaned up by HB Rets. Big C respawned at the other side of the table next to a forgefiend who she then promptly cleaved in half then got charged by the deamon prince who was the last model on the table for the Chaos guy, which then got turned into a fething kebab.

My take away from the day:
In small games Big C and 10 seraphim is border line OP. although i'm interested to see how she will cope with larger games.
Penitents are scary looking enough to the point where they are bullet magnets and can't make it across the table. Both games they just got derped on before they could do anything.
HBs are decent, not overwhelming but a solidly reliable option if they're left alone to do their thing. Double shooting them is 100% legit.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 18:07:18


Post by: Mavnas


 pretre wrote:
I agree that there are proper cheaper options for imperials, but we're talking the SOB thread here. So what do we have that is cheaper? Also, we could start adding Combi-Plasma to our Dom squads.


I thought about that, but inside a repressor or really far forward, they won't be getting re-rolls.

At any rate the points cost for all our special weapons (other than SB) have gone up and they really, really didn't need to. Plasma got cheaper and better, melta is worse at its job now that vehicles are tougher and it's also more expensive. I get that they may have wanted to combat melta spam, but that's about all my sisters were doing. I really have trouble seeing myself fielding a pure SoB force, it still doesn't feel like a complete army although it helps that flyers aren't so hard to hit/counter now.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 18:09:15


Post by: pretre


So far, my only not pure part is that I took conscripts for bubble wrap/redemptionists.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 18:36:48


Post by: RabbitMaster


There's an interesting thing that needs to be clarified: does the vanguard ability takes place before or after the attempt to seize?

The way it is worded is suggesting that it occurs after seizing: we need to know who has the first turn when applying it (in case both have the rule), and seizing happen immediately when the player who finished deployment first chose to go first. So it makes little sense to interrupt that process in the middle to do the vanguard moves.

What do you think ? If vanguard happens effectively after seizing, depending on the outcome we can either move offensively or defensively. Which is awesome because we won't be in a situation were we rush forward, got seized and crushed right away.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 18:56:00


Post by: pretre


It looks like after seize 'before the first player takes their turn'.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 20:00:55


Post by: Melissia


Yeah I think Pretre's right.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 20:11:16


Post by: Mavnas


If so that ability is way better than the old scout move. Nothing quite like scouting forward only to get get charged when opponent seizes.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 20:19:08


Post by: RabbitMaster


 pretre wrote:
It looks like after seize 'before the first player takes their turn'.

It's also my reading.
For what it's worth I had the opportunity to ask one of the LVO judge about it and he agrees too.

If so that ability is way better than the old scout move. Nothing quite like scouting forward only to get get charged when opponent seizes.

Yeah, a dominion squad in repressor got a little bit more expensive compared with 7th, but a *lot* more flexible.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 20:19:21


Post by: deviantduck


Interesting... When we read the vanguard rule drunk friday night at 1am we were certain is was before you attempt to seize. Now it seem more ambiguous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Am I reading the repressor rules correctly, is it saying you get 9 attacks again infanty? That can cause 9 wounds that deal 9 damage to 9 models? Or is it just more dice for the same 3 attacks pretty much guaranteeing 3 hits that can cause 3 wounds and 3 damage?

I'm leaning toward crowd plowing rampage.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 20:35:47


Post by: pretre


9 Attacks when charging.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 20:40:04


Post by: RabbitMaster


Yep, 9 attack and it even got AP-1, just in case. The repressor is just stupidly good in this edition.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 20:51:51


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Our store had its absolutely gigantic launch party Saturday, and it was surreal for the first time in years, seeing my wife NOT be the only Sisters player. Three Sisters armies among the thirty or so players was awesome to see.

She told me to pass along that Dominion Repressors were the truth. :-p She took four, two with Flamer Doms and two Melta Doms, and she said they were definitively causting catastrophic harm to opponents all day. They also helped her get a few 1st turns, as she started games with Imagifiers and the Doms embarked, meaning far fewer drops than a good many armies we saw.

Also, she said the one woman who ran her Sisters with a Vanguard Detachment of three Tempestus Command Squads, and a Tempestor Prime, was tearing people a new one all day long.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 21:32:52


Post by: pretre


Yeah, I totally am tempted by TCS.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:14:11


Post by: Melissia


Bear in mind that 9 attacks on the charge is only against infantry. Important distinction; it's an anti-horde ability.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:17:45


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


I'm wondering: How many Exorcists do I want?

With 1, I can guarantee the availability of a Command Point to use to re-roll it's rocket count. Beyond that, I can't. 2 is probably viable, but I'm questioning of there's a place for 3 or more in lists.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:20:21


Post by: pretre


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm wondering: How many Exorcists do I want?

With 1, I can guarantee the availability of a Command Point to use to re-roll it's rocket count. Beyond that, I can't. 2 is probably viable, but I'm questioning of there's a place for 3 or more in lists.

At 2000, I had 3. This was with Canoness for reroll 1's and Imagifers for Faith. I'm not sure how much I would reroll their shots unless it was clutch.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:28:08


Post by: Rynner


 pretre wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm wondering: How many Exorcists do I want?

With 1, I can guarantee the availability of a Command Point to use to re-roll it's rocket count. Beyond that, I can't. 2 is probably viable, but I'm questioning of there's a place for 3 or more in lists.

At 2000, I had 3. This was with Canoness for reroll 1's and Imagifers for Faith. I'm not sure how much I would reroll their shots unless it was clutch.


Faith for Exorcists? They don't have that rule.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:31:24


Post by: RabbitMaster


 Melissia wrote:
Bear in mind that 9 attacks on the charge is only against infantry. Important distinction; it's an anti-horde ability.

That's why you have those sweet meltagun inside ;-) Dominions kills the heavy stuff, repressor burn/dozer the light stuff.

Also, she said the one woman who ran her Sisters with a Vanguard Detachment of three Tempestus Command Squads, and a Tempestor Prime, was tearing people a new one all day long.

Wow I didnt realize how cheap the TCS were...


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:31:49


Post by: Bionid


Rynner wrote:


Faith for Exorcists? They don't have that rule.


Exorcists have the <Order> keyword, meaning they are affected by Imagifiers. They also have the <Adepta Sororitas> keyword, so they work with Celestine too. Just not the armywide one.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:38:17


Post by: MacPhail


Rynner wrote:
 pretre wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm wondering: How many Exorcists do I want?

With 1, I can guarantee the availability of a Command Point to use to re-roll it's rocket count. Beyond that, I can't. 2 is probably viable, but I'm questioning of there's a place for 3 or more in lists.

At 2000, I had 3. This was with Canoness for reroll 1's and Imagifers for Faith. I'm not sure how much I would reroll their shots unless it was clutch.


Faith for Exorcists? They don't have that rule.


Only the 2+ AoF that comes with the army has that problem. Celestine's affects any AS unit, and the Imagifier's affects and unit from your <Order>. The Exorcist is both of those. You just need an AoF that isn't the initial one.

EDIT: Oops, ninja'd by Bionid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


Also, she said the one woman who ran her Sisters with a Vanguard Detachment of three Tempestus Command Squads, and a Tempestor Prime, was tearing people a new one all day long.


Scions are incredible for their points. Even if they get erratta'd with a few more ppms, I'll probably still run them to fill my Troops requirement for a Brigade. I just ordered three more squads from Forge World. They are a great complement to the Adepta Sororitas.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:45:14


Post by: Rynner


 MacPhail wrote:
Rynner wrote:
 pretre wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm wondering: How many Exorcists do I want?

With 1, I can guarantee the availability of a Command Point to use to re-roll it's rocket count. Beyond that, I can't. 2 is probably viable, but I'm questioning of there's a place for 3 or more in lists.

At 2000, I had 3. This was with Canoness for reroll 1's and Imagifers for Faith. I'm not sure how much I would reroll their shots unless it was clutch.


Faith for Exorcists? They don't have that rule.


Only the 2+ AoF that comes with the army has that problem. Celestine's affects any AS unit, and the Imagifier's affects and unit from your <Order>. The Exorcist is both of those. You just need an AoF that isn't the initial one.

EDIT: Oops, ninja'd by Bionid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


Also, she said the one woman who ran her Sisters with a Vanguard Detachment of three Tempestus Command Squads, and a Tempestor Prime, was tearing people a new one all day long.


Scions are incredible for their points. Even if they get erratta'd with a few more ppms, I'll probably still run them to fill my Troops requirement for a Brigade. I just ordered three more squads from Forge World. They are a great complement to the Adepta Sororitas.


Oh. I missed that. Good catch!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 22:59:21


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


They really are incredible. I suspect they'll see a point increase very quickly, but even at twice the points for the model itself, they would be a pretty terrific deal, and a perfect compliment to Sisters.

BTW. There was some Repressor debate Saturday about the Sisters being able to contribute to over-watch, or firing even if it retreated. How are people justifying ruling for or against either of those?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 23:04:32


Post by: Drider


This pretty much does it for me.

Core Rules
Page 8
Charge Phase

3. Overwatch Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker. A target unit can potentially fire Overwatch several times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy models within 1" of it. Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

The Transport is the target of the charge, not the embarked unit.


Core Rules
Page 9
Transports

Embark: If all models in a unit end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark within it. Remove the unit from the battlefield and place it to one side – it is now embarked inside the transport.
Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked.
If a transport is destroyed, any units embarked within it immediately disembark (see below) before the transport model is removed, but you must then roll one dice for each model you just set up on the battlefield. For each roll of 1, a model that disembarked (your choice) is slain.

The embarked unit cannot do anything unless specifically stated.

Sororitas Repressor Data slate
Abilities

Firing Ports: Up to six models being transported by a Sororitas Repressor can shoot in their shooting phase, measuring and drawing line of sight from any point on the vehicle. Units that shoot in this manner count as having moved if they or the Sororitas Repressor Moved in the preceding Movement phase.

The Data slate states that embarked units can shoot in their shooting phase. it does not mention overwatch.

Units embarked in a Repressor cannot fire overwatch.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/19 23:09:18


Post by: RabbitMaster


Another trick I found out with our favorite FW transport: the dominion can still fire if you use the repressor's smoke launcher ! This is actually a very nice option, makes the repressor quite tanky.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 00:39:33


Post by: Amishprn86


Hmm can you pop smoke but still overwatch?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 01:19:27


Post by: Btothefnrock


so can they shoot out of it if its in combat? (into other units)


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 01:44:00


Post by: Amishprn86


You can with Pistols.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 02:22:13


Post by: Melissia


That rule also means that even if the repressor is in combat, the passengers aren't-- they're not effected by anything unless specifically stated, and the firing ports rule does not say they're effected by it-- and can fire out as normal. So the repressor can tie up an enemy unit and force htem to fall back or stay in melee with a vehicle, even as the passengers continue to fire as long as it's not at the unit the repressor is in melee with (due to not being able to fire into a melee).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 04:19:21


Post by: Mavnas


Before I noticed Scion command squads, I was thinking of running rough riders with 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol and outflanking them, but they cost pretty much the same and 5 shots at BS 4+ outflanking from the sides isn't nearly as good as deep striking anywhere with 8 BS 3+ shots. Although, I guess they would fill FA slots in a brigade.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 06:35:06


Post by: Fafnir


 Melissia wrote:
That rule also means that even if the repressor is in combat, the passengers aren't-- they're not effected by anything unless specifically stated, and the firing ports rule does not say they're effected by it-- and can fire out as normal. So the repressor can tie up an enemy unit and force htem to fall back or stay in melee with a vehicle, even as the passengers continue to fire as long as it's not at the unit the repressor is in melee with (due to not being able to fire into a melee).


Definitely going to want to see some official clarification drop on the Repressor and the nature of its firepoints. Stuff like that just feels all kinds of dirty.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 09:37:27


Post by: Hoboanarki


Yeah, open topped transports usually have a clarification that units can't shoot anything other than pistols if the enemy is within 1", and that they can't shoot if the transport falls back, so I'd imagine an FAQ adding that in relatively soon.

That said, as a riot control vehicle is is kind of fluffy to imagine the unit inside blazing away with their guns into an angry mob.

The forgeworld rules in general do seem a little more rushed than the main indexes unfortunately, which is a shame as the internal balance for each army is far better in this edition than I've ever seen before.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 10:05:26


Post by: Mavnas


 Hoboanarki wrote:
Yeah, open topped transports usually have a clarification that units can't shoot anything other than pistols if the enemy is within 1", and that they can't shoot if the transport falls back, so I'd imagine an FAQ adding that in relatively soon.

That said, as a riot control vehicle is is kind of fluffy to imagine the unit inside blazing away with their guns into an angry mob.

The forgeworld rules in general do seem a little more rushed than the main indexes unfortunately, which is a shame as the internal balance for each army is far better in this edition than I've ever seen before.


The Stormlord doesn't have that language either... of course the base vehicle can fire while in combat. Are there any non-open-topped, non-super heavies that still have fire points?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 12:05:28


Post by: the_Jakman


Hey guys, here's my first 8th Sisters list. C&C appreciated. It's a pretty standard sisters list I think.
I did try to fit 2x5 Battle Sister squads in each Rhino with full specials and heavies, but couldnt fit it into 2000pts.
I wanted to fit another Geminae and Repressors, but I dont have Repressors and again, points were tight.
I'm trying to figure out if I want the Seraphim squad to have a plas pistol and p sword, or an extra model.

Spoiler:
HQ
Big C
1x Geminae
Canoness w/ combi plas, chainsword

ELITE
Imagifier
Hospitaller

TROOPS
3x (10) Battle Sister squads w/ combi flamer, hvy flamer, melta
3x Rhinos w/ 2 stormbolter

FAST
2x (5) Dominions w/ combi melta, 4x melta
2x Immolators w/ Immolation flamer
(5) Seraphim w/ 4x hand flamers, plas pistol, p sword

HEAVY
(10) Retributors w/ 4x heavy bolters
2x Exorcists

1998 pts.


Tactics are pretty obvious. Big C and the Seraphim bounce around burning stuff. Canoness, Imagifier, Hospitaller camp with the Retributors and Exorcists, getting extra AoF, heals and re roll 1s.
We have 11 meltaguns, 12 various flamers, 4 heavy bolters and 2 Exorcists.

So what do you think? And thanks for your time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also something I posted on the old thread, that i'd noticed.

Sister Superiors for BSS, Doms, Seraphim, Celestians all get +1 Ld. Retributers Superiors only have 7 Ld.

Seems strange to me, can anyone explain this?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 14:03:08


Post by: pretre


 Amishprn86 wrote:
You can with Pistols.

That's a good catch!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 15:55:07


Post by: PanzerLeader


FYI, if you are going to ATC they have ruled that Imagifers don't work on vehicles. They only work on units that have the Act of Faith ability


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 15:57:44


Post by: pretre


PanzerLeader wrote:
FYI, if you are going to ATC they have ruled that Imagifers don't work on vehicles. They only work on units that have the Act of Faith ability

Lame! What about Celestine? she still works on vehicles?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 16:10:14


Post by: Melissia


 Fafnir wrote:
Definitely going to want to see some official clarification drop on the Repressor and the nature of its firepoints. Stuff like that just feels all kinds of dirty.

I wouldn't surprised to see it errata'd. But how I described it is how it works as written.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 16:23:38


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


PanzerLeader wrote:
FYI, if you are going to ATC they have ruled that Imagifers don't work on vehicles. They only work on units that have the Act of Faith ability


I HATE it when the tournament bodies make panic/snap decisions before a game is even old enough to warrant them. Its like the one LVO where they panic-nerfed Ghost-Keel's Mirror ability to one use per unit... when it wouldn't have made one ounce of impact, because the entire meta was abusing Space Marine cheese that they allowed unhindered.

Nerfing anything Sisters that might elevate them to "not bad" status, is a kick in the dick kind of move. :-p

But, 64pt Scion Command Plasma Squads will be on every table, and that's cool, right? :-p


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 16:25:03


Post by: pretre


Nm


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 16:32:41


Post by: PanzerLeader


Pretre, I didn't ask about Celestine yet. I'm going to assume they rule similarly as I continue planning.

NewTruth- it wasn't a snap decision per say. One of my team mates brought up a good rules argument about why it shouldn't work on vehicles and so we asked for a decision up front rather than waiting until July and risking a snap ruling mid tournament


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 16:38:07


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


No, no... I mean "snap" decision in the sense that no one has even seen where Sisters stack up in a tournament setting, meaning making calls against or for anything, in any army, outside of deeply exploitative stuff, is premature in my eyes.

I mean... we've been playing it that Imagifiers do work on vehicles locally, with a big competitive player-base, and it hasn't once yet made Sisters feel "OMG TOO GOOD!!!".


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 19:43:35


Post by: deviantduck


Well, that's good to know. That changes my ATC list a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PanzerLeader wrote:
FYI, if you are going to ATC they have ruled that Imagifers don't work on vehicles. They only work on units that have the Act of Faith ability


Where did you see/hear/read this?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 21:52:26


Post by: MacPhail


That's garbage. Play the rules as written and wait for a FAQ.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 22:14:07


Post by: pretre


 MacPhail wrote:
That's garbage. Play the rules as written and wait for a FAQ.

Except for Celestine. That one deserves and insta-nerf.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/20 22:22:40


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I think there's a world of difference between a maybe its meant to be played x or y, wording, versus an obvious error/omission. Celestine not expressly being listed as one-per-army is so obvious that only a troll would try to get away with it, whereas the Imagifier one, I sincerely think they're biffing.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 00:54:31


Post by: PanzerLeader


 deviantduck wrote:
Well, that's good to know. That changes my ATC list a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PanzerLeader wrote:
FYI, if you are going to ATC they have ruled that Imagifers don't work on vehicles. They only work on units that have the Act of Faith ability


Where did you see/hear/read this?


We asked their lead judge Alexis for a ruling.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 01:09:16


Post by: Mavnas


Imagifiers seem horribly overcosted if they don't work on Exorcists or transports. At only 50% to give you an extra AoF, the base unit would have to be worth well over 80 points (since the extra bodies would be better) or really safe from being removed. Since the unit would have to be outside their transport at the start of a turn more or less the only unit that seems like this would good on would be a large BSS blob and it would be OK on HB rets.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 02:21:54


Post by: MacPhail


It seems to me that all three AoF options are accompanied by clear, specific language that appears elsewhere in various army indices. Nothing looks like text from an early draft was left in place after a purge of a broken rule or an awkward phrasing. For example, auras that affect <Regiment> are all over the Astra Militarum index, but there plenty of auras that are more or less restrictive. Commissars affect all AM units within 6", Tank Commanders only affect <Regiment> Leman Russes, etc. Our Priests only affect Infantry from Astra Militarum and Adeptus Ministorum, but not Adeptus Mechanicus. The keyword mechanic has been used all over the place to limit the scope of auras.

It isn't as though a restriction was left off, leaving something far too powerful (as with Celestine). All of the text is present, is playable as written, and appears to be deliberate barring some detail known only to the design team. Why are TOs questioning it?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 02:38:43


Post by: KestrelM1


PanzerLeader wrote:
We asked their lead judge Alexis for a ruling.


I would be interested to hear his reasoning, because I don't think his ruling is correct. Perhaps that would be a discussion best had in another thread, though.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 03:03:29


Post by: Rubenite


The restriction is right there in the Acts of Faith special rule:

...one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn...


You can't just ignore these sentences when using the Imagifier or Celestine. Their abilities do not specifically override the need to have the Acts of Faith ability, as is stated in the Acts of Faith ability which they are allowing you to access (in addition to your once per turn 2+).

Is it worded poorly? Absolutely. But the intent is there.

For a precedent, consider Ynnari Soulburst actions that were later clarified to not work on vehicles using similar 'loopholes', as they did not possess the Strength from Death special rule. There are no 'vehicles' anymore, but there are models that specifically do not have the Acts of Faith ability in the same vein. If you're building lists around using Acts of Faith on Exorcists, then IMO you are wasting your time.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 03:38:10


Post by: Mavnas


 MacPhail wrote:
It seems to me that all three AoF options are accompanied by clear, specific language that appears elsewhere in various army indices. Nothing looks like text from an early draft was left in place after a purge of a broken rule or an awkward phrasing. For example, auras that affect <Regiment> are all over the Astra Militarum index, but there plenty of auras that are more or less restrictive. Commissars affect all AM units within 6", Tank Commanders only affect <Regiment> Leman Russes, etc. Our Priests only affect Infantry from Astra Militarum and Adeptus Ministorum, but not Adeptus Mechanicus. The keyword mechanic has been used all over the place to limit the scope of auras.

It isn't as though a restriction was left off, leaving something far too powerful (as with Celestine). All of the text is present, is playable as written, and appears to be deliberate barring some detail known only to the design team. Why are TOs questioning it?


I mean, I think they assumed that the requirement that the unit has the rule is implied, although RAW it probably isn't. Vehicles are clearly not meant to have the rule, otherwise, they'd have the rule or Celestine and the imagifier would call this out explicitly. That said, I don't think the book is free of oversights. Consider that the Jokaero Weaponsmith from the Inquisition can't board any transports (except I think FW has an inquisition one)?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 03:56:38


Post by: MacPhail


 Rubenite wrote:
The restriction is right there in the Acts of Faith special rule:

...one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn...


You can't just ignore these sentences when using the Imagifier or Celestine. Their abilities do not specifically override the need to have the Acts of Faith ability, as is stated in the Acts of Faith ability which they are allowing you to access (in addition to your once per turn 2+).


But those abilities clearly override the "one unit from your army" part of the rule, just like it says they might. The paragraph you quote from describes the core AoF, anticipates a potential abuse of it (using multiple AoFs on the same unit), and imposes a restriction to eliminate to potential for abuse. I dont think you can get much more than that from the paragraph. Anything more is reading between the lines if you ask me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mavnas wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:
Why are TOs questioning it?


I mean, I think they assumed that the requirement that the unit has the rule is implied, although RAW it probably isn't. Vehicles are clearly not meant to have the rule, otherwise, they'd have the rule or Celestine and the imagifier would call this out explicitly. That said, I don't think the book is free of oversights. Consider that the Jokaero Weaponsmith from the Inquisition can't board any transports (except I think FW has an inquisition one)?


Interesting point on the Jokaero... this seems at least potentially likely to be an oversight, since it's the absence of Authority the Inquisition as opposed to something written into the unit abilities. I guess my point is just that... that we're not talking about an absence or oversight, but some actual present language that seems retry explicit to me. That's why I'm inclined to play it as written until GW says otherwise, but that's just me.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 04:49:44


Post by: davidgr33n


@Rubenite - St Celestine can use her Saintly Blessings rule to allow one Adepta Sororitas unit to perform an Act of Faith, it doesn't state that the unit has to be a unit with the AoF special rule.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 04:55:22


Post by: Mavnas


 MacPhail wrote:

Interesting point on the Jokaero... this seems at least potentially likely to be an oversight, since it's the absence of Authority the Inquisition as opposed to something written into the unit abilities. I guess my point is just that... that we're not talking about an absence or oversight, but some actual present language that seems retry explicit to me. That's why I'm inclined to play it as written until GW says otherwise, but that's just me.


My point is that the absence of Authority of the Inquisition is probably intentional, but since the inquisition has no vehicles of its own this edition... A rule can be both intentionally worded one way and also have unintended consequences.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 11:38:10


Post by: frgsinwntr


 Rubenite wrote:
The restriction is right there in the Acts of Faith special rule:

...one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn...


You can't just ignore these sentences when using the Imagifier or Celestine. Their abilities do not specifically override the need to have the Acts of Faith ability, as is stated in the Acts of Faith ability which they are allowing you to access (in addition to your once per turn 2+).

Is it worded poorly? Absolutely. But the intent is there.

For a precedent, consider Ynnari Soulburst actions that were later clarified to not work on vehicles using similar 'loopholes', as they did not possess the Strength from Death special rule. There are no 'vehicles' anymore, but there are models that specifically do not have the Acts of Faith ability in the same vein. If you're building lists around using Acts of Faith on Exorcists, then IMO you are wasting your time.


Uh... this is a new edition and the Ynnari thing is not valid since it was from 7th. In fact you can soul burst ynnari vehicles this edtion if you use the psyker power by raw. They just can't do it without this special case/power.

The Specific wording of the Celestine Ability as well as the imagrifier make it very clear who can use an act of faith and are specific that Sororitas units can use an act of faith. You are confusing keywords for special rules. Key words ARE NOT special rules.

also, if you are saying you can't skip that paragraph, celestines rules and the imagrifiers rules make zero sense in context... since they say pick a unit before rolling the 4+ (or just pick in celestines case) and they may perform ..etc. If we follow your logic, we get to pick a unit within 6 inches to use the act of faith but then... roll a 4+ to roll a 2+ to pick another unit anywhere on the table... and that makes zero sense...

Again, the Special rule for celestine says a unit with the sororitas keyword can use an act of faith. Thats explicitly clear and specific would overide the general anyways.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 13:47:44


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


What's weird is... if this judge Alexis is the same woman I am thinking of (we're relatively local to the ATC event coming up), she is not only a SoB player, but was playing it with us Saturday using Imagifiers in the exact opposite way as she would apparently have ruled.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 14:46:46


Post by: KestrelM1


 Rubenite wrote:
The restriction is right there in the Acts of Faith special rule:

...one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn...


That isn't the actual Acts of Faith, those are the four special abilities listed below. That rule is telling you which units are eligible to perform that particular Act if you roll the 2+ at the start of your turn. The way it seems to me, there are three different ways to perform an Act of Faith:

1. Roll a 2+ at the start of your turn. Only units with the Acts of Faith ability may perform this Act of Faith.
2. Be within 6" of Celestine. Only units with the Adepta Sororitas keyword can perform this Act of Faith (this excludes Crusaders).
3. Roll a 4+, and be within 6" of an Imagifier. Only units with the same <Order> keyword as the Imagifier can perform this Act of Faith (this excludes Celestine, Crusaders, and anything from a different <Order> )

I agree completely that #1 on that list is restricted to units with Acts of Faith, as it explicitly says so. But if the latter two are intended to be restricted to units with the Acts of Faith ability, they currently lack the verbiage to effect that restriction.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 15:00:09


Post by: RoninXiC


I think we can all agree that a Designers FAQ should clear this up. Doesnt matter if you think it is clear this or that way. Games suck if you can even come to two different conclusions. Doesnt matter if one is a bit "more true"than the other.

GW should just clear it up.


I have 8 Penitent Engine Proxies... should I ever use that man in a 1500-2000 point game? :(


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 15:03:48


Post by: PanzerLeader


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
What's weird is... if this judge Alexis is the same woman I am thinking of (we're relatively local to the ATC event coming up), she is not only a SoB player, but was playing it with us Saturday using Imagifiers in the exact opposite way as she would apparently have ruled.


She could have misunderstood my captains question I guess. Just reporting what I was told.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 18:16:11


Post by: Mandragola


Whatever the rules are, acts of faith seem better for armies with fewer sisters in. Basically if you've only got a few units of sisters, each one is more likely to get acts of faith used on it each turn. This effectively makes them more efficient.

I'm seriously thinking that a "crusade" type army might be the best way to play at the moment. Maybe bring a detachment of mechs for robots, snipers and onagers and a mixed detachment with things like retributors, plasma scions and so on. Maybe bring a knight. It seems like a way to turn several small (and arguably incomplete) lists into one complete one.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 18:33:09


Post by: Melissia


Larger units also benefit more from AoFs than smaller ones. Fifteen sisters firing their boltguns twice does three times the attacks as an MSU of five.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 19:16:35


Post by: ERJAK


 Rubenite wrote:
The restriction is right there in the Acts of Faith special rule:

...one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn...


You can't just ignore these sentences when using the Imagifier or Celestine. Their abilities do not specifically override the need to have the Acts of Faith ability, as is stated in the Acts of Faith ability which they are allowing you to access (in addition to your once per turn 2+).

Is it worded poorly? Absolutely. But the intent is there.

For a precedent, consider Ynnari Soulburst actions that were later clarified to not work on vehicles using similar 'loopholes', as they did not possess the Strength from Death special rule. There are no 'vehicles' anymore, but there are models that specifically do not have the Acts of Faith ability in the same vein. If you're building lists around using Acts of Faith on Exorcists, then IMO you are wasting your time.


Intent is largely irrelevant unless there's ambiguity; and the big issue with this is that there isn't ambiguity in the rule, it just feels weird for units without AoF to use AoF and GW's history of poor rules writing reinforces that. As written it's very clear that Celestine and Imagifiers can put AoFs on Vehicles. In fact, with the more permissive ruling the whole system seems to be nuanced and elegant, whereas the more restrictive reading makes it seem a lot like the shield of faith Deny the Witch; i.e. something incredibly cool and fluffy that they didn't put a whole lot of time and effort into making sure actually worked on the tabletop.

I personally do think that they meant to only allow AoFs to work on Sisters infantry(and motherfething crusaders for some goddam stupid fething reason) and they just forgot to say that. I just think that's pretty lame because it makes taking more than 1 imagifier in Sisters lists that don't revolve around multiple units of retributors and/or seraphim and/or blob infantry wasteful. Sisters of Battle are arguably the most mechanized army in the game now(Guard put a lot of points into conscripts and HWTs these days) and we have an army wide special rule that doesn't work on vehicles.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 19:42:00


Post by: Melissia


They should just make an elite unit that is a cross between crusaders and Celestians. Better yet, let Celestians take power swords and combat shields fairly cheaply, so there's a reason to take Celestians other than as throwaway wounds for characters.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 19:46:52


Post by: Rubenite


I appreciate the discussion here and I'll be submitting to the GW Facebook page to try and get this addressed.

I'll also be suggesting that they move the activation of the Acts of Faith ability to the start of the shooting phase - just like Imperial Guard Orders. This would mean:

- Extra movement works the same (just after movement rather than before)
- Disembarking followed by an Act of Faith
- Deep Striking Seraphim allowed an Act of Faith
- Extra shooting more maneuverable but heavy weapons now susceptible to -1 if they previously moved
- Extra combat works the same (as still prior to pistol shots)
- Healing works the same (other than now being after Hospitaller)

Would this break the game? Seems like this would allow them to be used in the way in which they were intended.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 19:56:08


Post by: Mandragola


I agree it would work better that way, but I think it's this way on purpose. Dominions that could fire their meltas twice on turn one would arguably be twice as good, making them very hard to put a price on. What imperial player wouldn't take them?

There are some small advantages to having faith at the start of the turn. You might get to kill a unit in melee, then charge another. You might shoot, then embark and run away. It's mainly worse of course, but in some ways it's better. It's clearly intended to be this way.

My suggestion is to always take a unit of heavy bolter rets. They will almost always have something to fire at. Alternatively Seraphim will always want to move, shoot or hit people (or rather, shoot them with their pistols).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 20:08:06


Post by: Mavnas


Start of turn allows you to shoot a unit, see thr outcome then change your move accordingly. I think a smaller, but still useful tweak would be to allow embarked units to use the move AoF to disemark.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 20:27:02


Post by: pretre


Mavnas wrote:
Start of turn allows you to shoot a unit, see thr outcome then change your move accordingly. I think a smaller, but still useful tweak would be to allow embarked units to use the move AoF to disemark.

I think an even smaller, but still useful, tweak would be to just allow embarked units to use AoF.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 21:14:48


Post by: Rubenite


Mandragola wrote:
Dominions that could fire their meltas twice on turn one would arguably be twice as good, making them very hard to put a price on. What imperial player wouldn't take them?


True this would be somewhat OP to say the least. That's a 60 wound potential right there!


Mavnas null wrote: Start of turn allows you to shoot a unit, see thr outcome then change your move accordingly. I think a smaller, but still useful tweak would be to allow embarked units to use the move AoF to disemark.


I'm intrigued - how would this be useful? I must be missing something as you can disembark in the movement phase and act normally so I can't see what you gain? Other than disembarking an Imagifier to then use her ability on a nearby unit - which would be costly, risky, but potentially awesome.


Here's the list of FAQ items I just drafted. Keen for feedback and any additional items that I may have missed. My goal is to have this stand out from the poorly formatted and horribly phrased waffle they get posted on their wall so that it definitely gets passed along to the design team:


Hi team, just wanted to submit a compliation of 'Index: Imperium 2' Adeptus Ministorum / Adepta Sororitas rules queries to please pass to the studio for a future FAQ:

- Units that DO NOT possess the 'Acts of Faith' ability but still have the <ORDER> or <ADEPTA SORORITAS> keywords - can they perform an Act of Faith as a result of the Imagifier's 'Simulacrum Imperialis' ability or Celestine's 'Saintly Blessings' ability? The wording of these abilities does not make it clear if the target unit also requires the Acts of Faith ability to be able to perform the Act of Faith.

- Acts of Faith do not seem to occur during a phase, as defined by the phases listed in the Core Rules. As such, in Matched Play, is there any restriction on using the same stratagem (such as the Command Reroll) multiple times whilst testing for Act of Faiths and while resolving their effects?

- The Retributor Superior has a leadership characteristic of 7, whereas every other unit's Superiors have a leadership of at least 8. Is this a typo?

- Celestine seems to be missing the unique model restriction.

- If Celestine has died a second time (after being revived the first time using her Miraculous Intervention ability) and there are still Geminae Superia alive, can she be further revived by using a 'Spirit of the Martyr' Act of Faith or the Hospitaller's 'Healer' ability? (On a side note, if an additional ability was added to her datasheet to allow for wounds to always be allocated to the Geminae first, even if Celestine is wounded and they are not, this would mitigate this possibility for a cheeky further revival).

- Should Seraphim's 'Angelic Visage' ability read "you *CAN* reroll failed Shield of Faith invulnerable saves for this unit"? Presently if they are affected by Celestine's Beacon of Faith ability they are forced to reroll rolls of 5 when making a Shield of Faith Invulnerable save, as modifiers are applied after rerolls. Adding the word 'can' would allow the player to choose not to reroll the 5s and then make the save.

- The Seraphim Hand Flamer has D6 hits instead of D3 as seen on a weapon with the same name in Index Imperium 1. Please do not change this, but to avoid confusion could these weapons be renamed to a 'Sororitas Hand Flamer'?

- The Adeptus Ministorum Storm Bolter costs are listed at 4pts - this is inconsistent with every other imperial army receiving them for only 2pts (including Sisters of Silence and the Sororitas Repressor). Is this a mistake?

- The last wargear option on the Canoness is unclear as to whether she can trade both weapons for Pistols/Ranged Weapons or just one. Whilst of course two combi-weapons would be silly, a Canoness with two plasma pistols was previously possible and a very popular (and awesome!) conversion.

- Similary, it is not currently possible for a Superior in any unit to take a Boltgun and a Power Weapon, which a lot of the available models actually have on them.

- If the Penitent Engine's 'Desperate for Redemption' ability successfully activates, can your opponent activate the 'Counter Offensive' stratagem to attack with one of their own units before the second lot of attacks resolves?

- In the Adeptus Ministorum ranged weapons summary, the Twin Multi-Melta is missing its ability as seen on the Immolator datasheet.


FORGEWORLD

Some small quick questions for the forgeworld team for 'Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Adeptus Astartes'.

- If the Sororitas Repressor uses its smoke launchers ability, can the embarked unit still shoot using the Firing Ports ability?

- Is the wargear option for an additional Heavy Flamer or Storm Bolter intended to replace any of Repressor's standard weapons?

- If the Repressor is within 1" of an enemy unit, can the embarked unit still fire during the shooting phase using the Firing Ports ability? If so, what restrictions (if any) are in place for this shooting attack?

- As the Repressor can only carry <ORDER> infantry, it may not carry the Hospitaller and Dialogus. Was this intended? Why not restrict it to <ADEPTA SORORITAS> infantry instead?






Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 21:17:32


Post by: Bionid


Hi all, going to a 2000 point major next weekend, 100 man tournament at element, with most of the UK's top competitive players. I'm going to be taking pure sisters, and wondering how is best to run them. I've gotten a fair few practice games in, and having a few issues.
This is the list I've got right now but thinking of changing it up. The premise is that one repressor contains 10 meltas, two have five+canoness, and then two repressors with HFs in (10 and 5), using the imagifiers to get the turn one bomb.
Detachment 1 – Vanguard
Celestine + Geminae - 250
Imagifier x3 – 120

Detachment 2 – Outrider
Canoness, Meltagun – 62
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Seraphimx5, 2x2HF – 79
Seraphimx5, 2x2HF – 79

Detachment 3 – Spearhead
Canoness, Meltagun – 62
Retributorsx5, HFx4 – 113
Retributorsx5, HFx4 - 113
Retributorsx5, HFx4 - 113
Repressor – 90
Repressor - 90

1992 total

I've played a four knight list however the other day, and 15 meltaguns turn one did sweet feth all to a knight, not even reducing it past half wounds. How are you guys dealing with knights? Can't even take penitents since I'm sticking to the Sisters of Battle keyword in the hopes I can snag best sisters.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 21:20:58


Post by: Amishprn86


Yeah b.c of the "at the start of the game" i'm using a Aegis Define Line.

I was going to place an Excorist, Ret-HB unit and an Imagifier behind the line.

I also was just going to keep my girls in vehicles and if a vehicle dies then on my turn i can cast my AoF on that unit (albeit if they live lol)


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 22:53:06


Post by: Rubenite


Bionid wrote:
Spoiler:
Hi all, going to a 2000 point major next weekend, 100 man tournament at element, with most of the UK's top competitive players. I'm going to be taking pure sisters, and wondering how is best to run them. I've gotten a fair few practice games in, and having a few issues.
This is the list I've got right now but thinking of changing it up. The premise is that one repressor contains 10 meltas, two have five+canoness, and then two repressors with HFs in (10 and 5), using the imagifiers to get the turn one bomb.
Detachment 1 – Vanguard
Celestine + Geminae - 250
Imagifier x3 – 120

Detachment 2 – Outrider
Canoness, Meltagun – 62
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Seraphimx5, 2x2HF – 79
Seraphimx5, 2x2HF – 79

Detachment 3 – Spearhead
Canoness, Meltagun – 62
Retributorsx5, HFx4 – 113
Retributorsx5, HFx4 - 113
Retributorsx5, HFx4 - 113
Repressor – 90
Repressor - 90

1992 total

I've played a four knight list however the other day, and 15 meltaguns turn one did sweet feth all to a knight, not even reducing it past half wounds. How are you guys dealing with knights? Can't even take penitents since I'm sticking to the Sisters of Battle keyword in the hopes I can snag best sisters.



The Repressors that have 5 Doms + Canoness - you realise they can't use the Vanguard move at the start of the game or benefit from the Canoness' buff whilst embarked, right? Also check with the TO about what Imagifier ruling their going with if you're planning on using it on the Rets full of Heavy Flamers.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 23:10:53


Post by: Amishprn86


Knights are hard to deal with if you take a TAC list, you will have to out play for objectives, i'd suggest paying maelstrom against them.

You can ally in Command Tempest squads for really cheap DSing, Dbl tapping Plasma with supercharge, thats 8 S8 shots for 73pts that is -3ap and 2 damage.
Thats 6 damage average, you can take a Tempest PRimet to re-rolls as well, tho i would rather just take another one of these units for like 30pts more.

Is 150pts worth killing 1/2 a knight to you? When you add everything else from your army you will kill a knight turn 1, if they are playing 5 knights then 2 of them wont be very good at shooting, kill the Crusader 1st ASASP and you should be able to win easily


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 23:22:32


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


So, I played my first game of 8e as Sisters yesterday. [And was victorious, but it was kind of like kicking puppies.]

I think Faith works just fine at the start of the turn.

I do think that units inside of transports should be able to make use of the ability to move their transport, fire from it's fire points, or resurrect dead comrades.

I also wish there was some superior scaling to Acts of Faith. We basically get 2 for every game, no matter how big it is. Imagifiers are by no means worth 40 points.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 23:29:57


Post by: RabbitMaster


They're worth 40pts if we can AoF vehicles with them (double taping an exorcist is fine).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/21 23:45:08


Post by: Melissia


Even then they're really not worth it. 50% is far too variable for what is basically just a multiwound celestian with such a minor buff.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 00:56:46


Post by: Mavnas


I would add to the FAQ a question about the price of stormbolters. Both Marines and inquisition that generally pay the same price for other special weapons as us get them for 2, whereas they cost us 4?₩


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 01:46:33


Post by: Rubenite


Good idea - updated. I think this was a mistake, we're the only imperial army to have it. Sisters of Silence even only pay 2pts. And on the Sororitas Repressor it only costs 2pts.

Plus, a Sororitas Rhino at 73pts base makes much more sense rounding out at 75 than 77.

I've already been including tons of them in my lists, even at 4pts. If they are reduced to just 2, then that will be the final nail in the flamer coffin IMO. 8" of overwatch just isn't reliable enough when units are deepstriking 9" away and charging.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 02:51:25


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Rubenite wrote:
Good idea - updated. I think this was a mistake, we're the only imperial army to have it. Sisters of Silence even only pay 2pts. And on the Sororitas Repressor it only costs 2pts.

Plus, a Sororitas Rhino at 73pts base makes much more sense rounding out at 75 than 77.

I've already been including tons of them in my lists, even at 4pts. If they are reduced to just 2, then that will be the final nail in the flamer coffin IMO. 8" of overwatch just isn't reliable enough when units are deepstriking 9" away and charging.


That might be why they're 4 points?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 04:04:56


Post by: jim300


In last game, I just noticed we finally got the Anti-Air unit. All hail the Holy Celestine


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 04:44:17


Post by: Mmmpi


The Seraphim too, if you think you can get sixes.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 05:35:18


Post by: ERJAK


Bionid wrote:
Hi all, going to a 2000 point major next weekend, 100 man tournament at element, with most of the UK's top competitive players. I'm going to be taking pure sisters, and wondering how is best to run them. I've gotten a fair few practice games in, and having a few issues.
This is the list I've got right now but thinking of changing it up. The premise is that one repressor contains 10 meltas, two have five+canoness, and then two repressors with HFs in (10 and 5), using the imagifiers to get the turn one bomb.
Detachment 1 – Vanguard
Celestine + Geminae - 250
Imagifier x3 – 120

Detachment 2 – Outrider
Canoness, Meltagun – 62
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Seraphimx5, 2x2HF – 79
Seraphimx5, 2x2HF – 79

Detachment 3 – Spearhead
Canoness, Meltagun – 62
Retributorsx5, HFx4 – 113
Retributorsx5, HFx4 - 113
Retributorsx5, HFx4 - 113
Repressor – 90
Repressor - 90

1992 total

I've played a four knight list however the other day, and 15 meltaguns turn one did sweet feth all to a knight, not even reducing it past half wounds. How are you guys dealing with knights? Can't even take penitents since I'm sticking to the Sisters of Battle keyword in the hopes I can snag best sisters.


You should change out 3 repressors to immolators. You don't have much in the way of screening and 9" deepstrikers will eat the repressors alive (especially if they're nids) and you won't be able to overwatch (people inside transports can't overwatch) and only the immolation flamer has a 12" range.

Then you have all the other issues like: Canonesses stop you from vanguarding and don't buff the units inside; putting 10 meltas or 10 hfs in the same tranports means that if you don't get first turn you just gave your opponent a giant neon sign that says 'Kill this first!' AND you're wasting points on 2 HFs and 4 Meltaguns even though they won't be able to shoot until the transport dies and would be more useful as wound soaks for when their ride blows up.

And with 11 drops You basically can't beat a knight list because they'll just pop the scariest transports before they move.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 08:05:45


Post by: Fafnir


At 4 points, they're still a bargain. If you run a Dominion-based MSU force, they're basically your standard firearm. 4 points per model is a small price to pay to effectively double your damage output.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 18:14:28


Post by: Twoshoes23


Could you add this to your FAQ rubenite? Note the fact that hospitaller and imagifier don't have the <order> keyword so therefore can't ride in repressors. Is this intentional or is the repressor supposed to include adepta sororitas keyword in its keyword abilities?





Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 20:58:55


Post by: Rubenite


 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Could you add this to your FAQ rubenite? Note the fact that hospitaller and imagifier don't have the <order> keyword so therefore can't ride in repressors. Is this intentional or is the repressor supposed to include adepta sororitas keyword in its keyword abilities?





Thanks - I've added this to the Forgeworld section. Assuming you meant Dialogus rather than Imagifier as she does have the <ORDER> keyword.

It's definitely right that the Hospitaller and Dialogus don't have the <ORDER> keyword as of course they hail from the Orders Hospitaller and Orders Dialogus, but it's definitely worth asking why the Repressor is limited to <ORDER> infantry and not <ADEPTA SORORITAS>.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm going to leave my questions up over the weekend and then send them to GW on Monday. So great that we have a new GW that let you do this. Reminds me of the good old days when you'd email the mail order trolls for rules clarifications


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 21:17:10


Post by: Bionid


ERJAK wrote:


You should change out 3 repressors to immolators. You don't have much in the way of screening and 9" deepstrikers will eat the repressors alive (especially if they're nids) and you won't be able to overwatch (people inside transports can't overwatch) and only the immolation flamer has a 12" range.

Then you have all the other issues like: Canonesses stop you from vanguarding and don't buff the units inside; putting 10 meltas or 10 hfs in the same tranports means that if you don't get first turn you just gave your opponent a giant neon sign that says 'Kill this first!' AND you're wasting points on 2 HFs and 4 Meltaguns even though they won't be able to shoot until the transport dies and would be more useful as wound soaks for when their ride blows up.

And with 11 drops You basically can't beat a knight list because they'll just pop the scariest transports before they move.


Immolators are a good idea, I'll probably end up with the 3 heavy flamer units in an Immolator each.
The Canoness stops vanguard, but it gives the compulsory HQ a use by bringing the 6th Meltagun into the transport. Since the 10 man would be further up than the rest, armywide AoF goes on Celestine who jumps up and uses her AoF on the Repressor thats pushed up. Then the imagifiers use it on the other Meltas if possible.
The compulsory canoness is an awkward point due to the mission type. Gunline is discouraged by each mission having Maelstrom, Eternal War as well as the tertiary elements. Can't have a heavy bolter back line as that will do nothing towards the mission for me except hold one objective in my own deployment zone.
Yeah I'll never get less drops than a knight army so they'll be going first, but the place has very good LoS terrain on each table.

Adjusted list:
Detachment 1 – Vanguard
Celestine + Geminae - 250
Imagifier x5 – 200

Detachment 2 – Outrider
Canoness, combi-melta – 64
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Dominionsx5, Meltagunx4, Combi-Melta – 137
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Repressor – 90
Seraphimx5, 2x2HF – 79

Detachment 3 – Spearhead
Canoness, combi-melta – 64
Retributorsx5, HFx5 – 113
Retributorsx5, HFx5 - 113
Retributorsx5, HFx5 - 113
Immolator: IF – 103
Immolator: IF – 103
Immolator: IF - 103
total: 1986
Obviously having the extra command points is worth the point tax for them but I'm still not really sure what to do with the canoness'.
edit: meltaguns to combi on canoness'


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 21:21:05


Post by: pretre


Canoness can't take meltaguns. Do you mean Combi-Melta? if so, you need to pay 19 for those.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 21:54:16


Post by: RabbitMaster


Speaking of Canoness, in the old times they loved having an eviscerator and I have to say that I quite like paying for it in 8th.
4 attacks S6 ap-3 D3 damage hitting on 3s reroll 1 is actually quite nice.

She usually hangs out by the rets and exos, but when stuff comes this way, I often either charge a small thing bothering me or use the counter-charge stratagem with her to soften up the ennemy's punch.

We're paying for that 2+ WS and 4 attack, at least it makes the best out of it for a cheap-ish investment.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/22 22:56:44


Post by: Fafnir


The only problem I have with the Canoness is that Celestine is just too damn good. She'll tear through half an army before our poor ground-pounding Canoness gets to touch a damned thing.

At the very least, she makes for a solid bodyguard for your shooting units. But she really needs access to a jump pack.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 02:45:13


Post by: Paimon


So I've been thinking about the list I want to run, and Basilisks look almost identical to Excorcists, with higher strength, higher range, extra shots, and no need for line of sight. For this they lose two points of armor penetration, and Shield of Faith. Also, they cost 50 points less.

Am I crazy to take the standard Outrider Detatchment of Sisters, and then shore them up with a Spearhead detachment of guard? The list would look like:

Outrider (1348)
Celestine and Friends
Melta Doms X3
Full Squad of Seraphim With Flamers
1x Squad of 15 Regular Sisters with 3 Storm Bolters
MM Immos x3
Imagifier

Spearhead (651 pts)
Lord Commissar
Platoon Commander
48 Conscripts (Can't afford the full 50 under 2000 pts)
4 Basilisks

This list comes in at 1999 points, and seems to check all of the important boxes for 8th. Long range high strength, High Rate of Fire blobs of dudes. Melta, Flying Flamers.

As a TAC list, I think I'm pretty set?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 03:05:23


Post by: pretre


Why the 15 blob of sisters and imagifer?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 04:06:42


Post by: Paimon


The Imagifier would sit with the BSS.

With Acts, the Battle Sisters do a decent impression of the Conscripts, while also having a bit more ability to move around (again thanks to the acts). If the dominions and Seraphim are running around the enemy deployment zone, a fireteam midfield that can sit on objectives, while laying down decent amounts of covering fire seems reasonable.

I'm also considering splitting the Basilisks, pairing two to the one blob, and to to the other. Because Conscripts are so scary if they are left alone, I anticipate that they will be targeted first by various opposing fast things, leaving the sisters to shoot anything that manages to charge the Conscripts.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 05:56:37


Post by: Mavnas


 Paimon wrote:
So I've been thinking about the list I want to run, and Basilisks look almost identical to Excorcists, with higher strength, higher range, extra shots, and no need for line of sight. For this they lose two points of armor penetration, and Shield of Faith. Also, they cost 50 points less.

Am I crazy to take the standard Outrider Detatchment of Sisters, and then shore them up with a Spearhead detachment of guard? The list would look like:

Outrider (1348)
Celestine and Friends
Melta Doms X3
Full Squad of Seraphim With Flamers
1x Squad of 15 Regular Sisters with 3 Storm Bolters
MM Immos x3
Imagifier

Spearhead (651 pts)
Lord Commissar
Platoon Commander
48 Conscripts (Can't afford the full 50 under 2000 pts)
4 Basilisks

This list comes in at 1999 points, and seems to check all of the important boxes for 8th. Long range high strength, High Rate of Fire blobs of dudes. Melta, Flying Flamers.

As a TAC list, I think I'm pretty set?


You've stumbled onto the secret that Exorcists are yet again over-costed for their firepower. This is true of a lot of our choices, which is why paying double for a SB as other armies still is a great deal (although in all fairness the base sister may be a slightly undercosted now at least compared to basic marines).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 07:24:06


Post by: jim300


Is there anyone who are considering Hunter-Killer? I think it is one of the most valuable wargears in 8th edition. Especially who can fire it in BS 3+


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 07:54:01


Post by: Rubenite


Hunter Killer is decent on an Exorcist with Canoness buff. Any other tank you'll likely be moving and therefore at a -1 to hit with it.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 09:41:47


Post by: Mandragola


With the exorcist you're paying for the ap. it's good, except when it isn't - like say at knights with their invulnerable save. But against targets with a 2+ save and no invulnerable you're doing significantly more damage.

You don't necessarily need to take another detachment. You might go with an exorcist, some hb rets and 3 basilisks as your 3 heavy support choices. Sisters don't lose anything for mixing in other imperials (only admech do, with canticles) so it might even be good to go for a brigade.

I don't know if this is OT for this thread though. I think it's likely that any optimised imperial list will borrow from across both indexes. Maybe we need a tactica for the indominatus crusade.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 10:19:18


Post by: Mavnas


I mean the main problem with the exorcist is that it's comparable in cost to the 4 lascannon predator (well, 80% of the price), but the predator gets to do d6 damage instead of d3 and gets a guaranteed 4 shots instead of d6 shots.

The exorcist needs to either stay cheaper, be able to fire without LoS, or do d6 damage. (I'd honestly prefer either of the first two because then the vehicles are different. I don't really want to play re-skinned marines.)

And yes to the optimized lists pulling across the whole Imperium! But in that context, the exorcist really needs to do something the Pred can't to differentiate it. I thought I had a list, but I realized I forgot to carry a 1 somewhere and it's actually a 2100 pt list :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQs
St. Celestine 150
Cannoness 45
Tempestor Prime w/Command Rod 40

Elites
Scion Command Squad w/4 Plasma 64
Scion Command Squad w/4 Plasma 64
Sgt. Harker 50
Commissar 31

Heavy Support
Retributors w/4 Heavy Bolters 85
Retributors w/4 Heavy Bolters 85
Retributors w/4 Heavy Bolters 85

Fast Attack
Rough Riders w/2 Plasma Guns + Pistol 65
Rough Riders w/2 Plasma Guns + Pistol 65
Seraphim + 2x2 Hand Flamers 79

Troops
BSS w/3 SB 57
BSS w/3 SB 57
BSS w/3 SB 57
BSS w/3 SB 57
Conscripts 60
Scions w/No upgrades 50

Dedicated Transports
Repressor w/2 SB + HF 92
Repressor w/2 SB + HF 92

Lords of War
Shadowsword 570

2000

Ok, if I cut out the Geminae, I can make it fit (alternatively drop the 2x Rough Riders for 2x single cyberwolf to still have a Brigade) but that feels cheesy in a way that using just Sisters and Guard doesn't.

This list was mainly designed to answer the question of can Celestine, a Brigade, and a super-heavy tank (I've had the box for three years now and never had a reason to assemble it) fit into a 2000 point list?

There are some things I would potentially change if I had more of this stuff painted like: dropping the handflamers from the seraphim (but I only have 5 and they have the flamers painted) or dropping the Rough Riders to Cyberwolves and replacing the guard troops with another repressor with 2 BSS with 6 stormbolters between them (although at that point I'd need to paint 18 sisters with SB). I'm not thrilled I can't afford the Geminae, but I feel like in this list Celestine is more there to give the Retributors another AoF and counter-charge things at least until I've punched a hole in the enemy.

The army as it stands has a Volcano cannon and 4 lascannons with 1s rerolled for long range anti-vehicle, 12 plasma guns and 4 plasma pistols that can deep strike/outflank for extra AV or anti-heavy infantry, 20 Heavy Bolters (8 of which will fire twice) all of which will reroll 1s and 16 Storm Bolters for anti-horde. My biggest concern is the lack of melee power other than Celestine. It's also a bit light on the vehicles and I could easily see myself lacking the power to take objectives on the opponent's side. Earlier versions had an exorcist instead of one of the HB squads, but the points are just so tight.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 16:40:48


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Mavnas wrote:


You've stumbled onto the secret that Exorcists are yet again over-costed for their firepower. This is true of a lot of our choices, which is why paying double for a SB as other armies still is a great deal (although in all fairness the base sister may be a slightly undercosted now at least compared to basic marines).


Yep. I'm not sure why we don't at least do D6 damage, considering all the other missile launchers in the Imperium do D6 damage.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 18:12:16


Post by: Melissia


Yeh I'm having a hard time finding a reason to take exorcists over retributors now too, but at least I feel like there's now a reason to bother with foot sloggers


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 18:55:13


Post by: Rynner


Exorcists cost too much and have too much variation to be worth their points cost. Lascannon Predators or Riflemen Dreadnoughts are a better buy.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 18:56:20


Post by: Melissia


Not if you want to play a Sisters army instead of a Space Marine army. For a pure Sisters army, I'd recommend more Sisters instead.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/23 23:23:19


Post by: Amishprn86


I played a game last night, BA vs SOB 2k

I didnt take a strong list at all, but more of a test to try different things out.

SOB
Canoness x2
St, Celestine x2 Geminae
Imgaifier x2
Troops x3, x3 storm bolters each
Mistress, x6 Repentia
Dom x4 metas
Dom x4 flamers
Dom x4 flamers
Seraphim 2sets of hand flamers
Ret x4 HB's
Penitent Engine
Exorcist
x3 Immolators
x3 Repressors

BA:
2 Storm Ravens
Dante
Priest
3x Devastators x4 ML's
10 Sang Guard? (jump terminators basically).

BatRep

BA 1st turn, Take and hold Objective

BA set up: 3 ML units in cover up high and 2 Storms ravens just on either side, the S-Guard on the table

SOB Set up: Ret+imagifier+canoness in cover, tanks in front and turn to block LoS of my Pent Engine and Ret units, everything in Vehicles, the BSS dbl up in 1 vehicle (repress, trying out 6 SB out of the top, Melta/Flamer in the other 2 Repress) Seraphim/St Celestine in the skies

Turn 1:
Basically his turn one was shoot as many tanks as he couple, he did kill 2 and some BSS along with the Repentia unit (he was scared of them)

SoB 1st turn was move up and shoot everything at the storm ravens (I killed 1 and the other down to 3 wounds), the Ret Dbl tap (was my only AOF that turn) a ML unit and killed it, some SB, and Exorcist killed a couple more from a different unit. Seraphim and St Celestine drop down near the ML's units but out of LoS (st Celestine went close to the Storm raven a bit i wanted to charge it if i could but it died)

Turn 2:
BA turn 2 was to move up the S-gaurds and Hq's even closer, the remaining ML's killed 2 more tanks (he didnt attack the squads inside), he charged and melee 2 more tanks, all tanks are now gone other than Exorcist, He consolidated into 2 BSS quads and a Flamer squad

SOB turn 2, Cast AoF on Rets again, AoF the the Melta Dom to kill the Storm Raven and St, Celestine to move. I fell back with the 3 units in CC. My flamers and Pent Engine all moved and shot the S-guard and killed 1/2 of them, the Seraphim shot the ML uit that was at full and killed 2, they also charged them. St Celestine charge the Priest and just wreck it lol.

Turn 3 final
BA player charged and killed the Pent Engine and Melta guns, after seeing what was left on the table he conceded.

Over all i liked St Celestine alot, i like the AoF with the Rets in the back (I forgot my ADL i wanted them behind that). The Flamers did better than i though and they AOF at the start of the turn was a problem but i see why its that way.

My Friend the BA player is a very good player (used to do tournaments) he is still trying to figure out what he likes in 8th with me, i hope to fight him again next week with a better list.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/25 23:11:25


Post by: Rubenite


Today I've been playing around with various transport ideas, and I've come up with a modular system which I think could be pretty strong in its flexibility vs. various opponent types. Consider this:

5 Doms - 3 Meltaguns
5 Doms - 3 Meltaguns
5 Doms - 3 Meltaguns
5 Doms - 3 Meltaguns
5 Battle Sisters - 3 Storm Bolters
5 Battle Sisters - 3 Storm Bolters

Repressor - HF, 2xSB
Repressor - HF, 2xSB
Immolator - Immolation Flamer
Immolator - Immolation Flamer

The six fire points on the Repressor and three special weapons in each squad are a great synergy:

Maximum Melta charge - 2 Dom Squads in each Repressor. BSS in Immolators.

Maximum Vanguard - Dom squad in each transport, BSS foot slog. (For when you need those Immolators to burn something right in the back field.)

Mixed Bag One - 2 BSS squads in one Repressor (dakka bus). 2 Dom squads in another (melta bus). One Dom Squad in each Immo.

Mixed Bag Two - 1 BSS and 1 Dom squad in each Repressor. One Dom Squad in each Immo.

The idea is that you tailor your transport load-out depending on what type of list you're up against. And multiple units in transports reduces your deployment unit count, possibly clinching you the first turn.

If that's too many meltaguns for your taste, swap out 1-2 dom units with Flamers/Storm Bolters.

Or even take 2 Ret squads with 3 Heavy Flamers and add the potential for a burny bus into the mix.

Granted it doesn't work so well with Acts of Faith as you'll get less bang for your buck using one on a squad with just three special weapons. So AoF are best used elsewhere on Celestine/Seraphim and a Heavy Bolter Gunline in the back.



Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/25 23:41:37


Post by: ERJAK


Played a game against ynnari eldar.

I had Celestine, 2 5 melta domi squads one in an immo one in a repressor, 1 BSS squad with double flamer(both immos had immo flamers), 2 exorcists, a ret squad with HB, 1 imagifier, 1 Canoness, and a unit of seraphim with double handflamer, pp, ps.

He had 2 units of dire avengers, 2 wave serpents, yvraine, jetbike fireseer, Crimson Hunter exarc, wraithlord, rangers, and some other smatterings I don't remember.

He got first turn and moved the two waveserpents and the crimson hunter to get the immo I had vanguarded out of LoS (putting him in melta range) he popped the immo with almost all of his firepower and didn't really hurt anything else. My turn I AoFd Celestine to move 12 and the dominions to shoot the wave serpent, imag failed hers. Failed utterly to hurt the wraithlord with the repressor. Killed some DAs and popped the wave serpent with the second round of melta and the exorcists took a few points off the crimson hunter. Celestine made it into the farseer, and both squads of DA took the farseer down to one wound in exchange for a gemini.


Turn 2 lost Celestine to a baller psychic phase but she popped back up in cover near the wraithlord. Crimson hunter put a few wounds on an immo, dire avengers and bikes shot at the seraphim in cover and killed 2-3 wave serpent whiffed of the dominions, wraithlord took the repressor down to 1.

My turn Seraphim AoF to snipe the farseer, Celestine moves to charge the wraithlord, meltas go after things meltas should go after, exorcists take down the plane immo charges and roasts 3 rangers, HBs AoF to take out most of the bikes. Seraphim wipe up both units of DA, Celestine kills the wraithlord. It was basically over after that.

Sisters are CRAZY good and super fun even with the weaker AoF interpretation.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/26 02:26:17


Post by: deviantduck


Erjak, your writeup of Sisters trouncing Eldar just made me go from six to midnight.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/26 06:52:20


Post by: Twoshoes23


ERJAK wrote:
Played a game against ynnari eldar.

I had Celestine, 2 5 melta domi squads one in an immo one in a repressor, 1 BSS squad with double flamer(both immos had immo flamers), 2 exorcists, a ret squad with HB, 1 imagifier, 1 Canoness, and a unit of seraphim with double handflamer, pp, ps.

He had 2 units of dire avengers, 2 wave serpents, yvraine, jetbike fireseer, Crimson Hunter exarc, wraithlord, rangers, and some other smatterings I don't remember.

He got first turn and moved the two waveserpents and the crimson hunter to get the immo I had vanguarded out of LoS (putting him in melta range) he popped the immo with almost all of his firepower and didn't really hurt anything else. My turn I AoFd Celestine to move 12 and the dominions to shoot the wave serpent, imag failed hers. Failed utterly to hurt the wraithlord with the repressor. Killed some DAs and popped the wave serpent with the second round of melta and the exorcists took a few points off the crimson hunter. Celestine made it into the farseer, and both squads of DA took the farseer down to one wound in exchange for a gemini.


Turn 2 lost Celestine to a baller psychic phase but she popped back up in cover near the wraithlord. Crimson hunter put a few wounds on an immo, dire avengers and bikes shot at the seraphim in cover and killed 2-3 wave serpent whiffed of the dominions, wraithlord took the repressor down to 1.


My turn Seraphim AoF to snipe the farseer, Celestine moves to charge the wraithlord, meltas go after things meltas should go after, exorcists take down the plane immo charges and roasts 3 rangers, HBs AoF to take out most of the bikes. Seraphim wipe up both units of DA, Celestine kills the wraithlord. It was basically over after that.

Sisters are CRAZY good and super fun even with the weaker AoF interpretation.


*Makes the sign of the Aquilla and bows in deference


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/27 23:34:38


Post by: pretre


Okay, I'm finally starting to settle into a list. I'll still take any feedback or tweaks anyone wants to suggest though. This will be for a competitive ITC event at the end of July (my first 8th edition event!)

6 Command Points at 1500

Spearhead -
HQ - Canoness with Eviscerator/BP - 67
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB  - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB  - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB  - 85
Elite - Imagifer - 40
Elite - Imagifer - 40

Vanguard -
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
Troop - 34 Conscripts - 102
Elite - Commissar with BP/CS - 31
Elite - 4 MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma - 64
Elite - 4 MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma - 64

Outrider Detachment
HQ - St C&1G - 200
Fast - 5 Seraphim with 2 x dual HF, Power Sword/BP- 83
Fast - 5 Seraphim with 2 x dual HF, Power Sword/BP- 83
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 133
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 5 Doms with 3 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 116
DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 00:22:07


Post by: Fafnir


So... Running the numbers, the Canoness just looks bad. Rerolling 1s to hit seems pretty decent at face value, but for most sister profiles, you're looking at an improvement of 11% damage output. The same amount of points invested into Dominion or Retributor squads nets so much more firepower, to the point where the Canoness isn't really justifying her value until she's buffing over 400 points worth of firepower at any given time.

If you spend the points to kit her out for combat, she'll have a hard time justifying that cost too. As a counter-assault unit, her T3 and 3+ save don't give her the durability to act as a meaningful deterrent. As an assault character, her inability to take a jump pack leaves her slowly and helplessly ground-pounding, making it impossible for her to act as the high mobility shock-unit/assassin that her eviscerator would be best at (it doesn't help that the Eviscerator itself is just... okay).

She just has so much trouble filling an important roll in a list, and with Celestine being such a ridiculous no-brainer, there's really no reason to take a Canoness. You're better off just saving the points and loading up a Sisters squad instead.

Thoughts?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 00:32:37


Post by: Kingsley


I'm really surprised to see so many people disparaging the Exorcist. It might just be a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the hill, but as an SM player I'm thinking "wow, las preds are awful, I wish we had Exorcists instead".


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 01:49:13


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Kingsley wrote:
I'm really surprised to see so many people disparaging the Exorcist. It might just be a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the hill, but as an SM player I'm thinking "wow, las preds are awful, I wish we had Exorcists instead".


Are they?

Pask Battle Tank is basically a Predator Annihilator +1, and is doing wonderfully. A Vanquisher TC was run by another guy and it did wonderful too. Both are expensive, though.

The Exorcist turned into an equivalent of a stock Leman Russ Battle Tank, which is problematic because the stock Leman Russ Battle Tank is crap. I'm not sure why every other missile launcher does D6 damage while ours does D3.

Worth mention: Basilisk, 2d6b1 shots, D3 damage, S9. Weaker AP and Ballistic skill, but only 108 points. 50 points less than the Exorcist for a better gun.

Also weird because the Exorcist got the defensive and offensive stats of a Leman Russ, when it used to have the defensive and offensive characteristics of a Predator.


That's the short of it though. It's not a big deal, because we've got other, extremely good units to carry the weight.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 01:54:18


Post by: deviantduck


 pretre wrote:

Vanguard -
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
Troop - 34 Conscripts - 102
Elite - Commissar with BP/CS - 31
Elite - 4 MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma - 64
Elite - 4 MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma - 64


Did you price these with Elysian drop troops? They're cheaper and the plasma guns do 3 damage instead of 2 when overcharged. I'm currently working on 4x command squads.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 02:21:34


Post by: Mavnas


 Fafnir wrote:
So... Running the numbers, the Canoness just looks bad. Rerolling 1s to hit seems pretty decent at face value, but for most sister profiles, you're looking at an improvement of 11% damage output. The same amount of points invested into Dominion or Retributor squads nets so much more firepower, to the point where the Canoness isn't really justifying her value until she's buffing over 400 points worth of firepower at any given time.

If you spend the points to kit her out for combat, she'll have a hard time justifying that cost too. As a counter-assault unit, her T3 and 3+ save don't give her the durability to act as a meaningful deterrent. As an assault character, her inability to take a jump pack leaves her slowly and helplessly ground-pounding, making it impossible for her to act as the high mobility shock-unit/assassin that her eviscerator would be best at (it doesn't help that the Eviscerator itself is just... okay).

She just has so much trouble filling an important roll in a list, and with Celestine being such a ridiculous no-brainer, there's really no reason to take a Canoness. You're better off just saving the points and loading up a Sisters squad instead.

Thoughts?


Your math is off a bit. She's a 16.6% buff meaning she needs to buff 6 × 45 = 260 points of Sisters, which is more managable. Also if one of those units fires twice due to AoF that free set of shots is better where an extra squad wouldn't improve the original squad's AoF. Mainly though she's an extra 45 point HQ for when you need more than 1 like for a Brigade.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 02:45:40


Post by: Melissia


Also, 260 points of sisters is fairly easy to do for a ground pounder list. Not so easy for an MSU list, but if all you're ever considering are MSU lists of COURSE you're going to limit yourself in what is valuable to take.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 03:26:34


Post by: IandI


I am currently running 2 Canoness', one cheap to buff Retributors and Exorcists, the other with Eviscerator and Combi Melta to hold the line with a priest and a bunch of BSS. My first game I only had one and she didn't really do much other than provide rerolls, but I wanted to reorganize my list for another CP and needed another HQ. I'm hell bent on pure ministorum, so I'll have to make due with Exorcists and no Scions for now. We'll see how it goes.

My experience so far with SoB in 8th was good, smashed an ork horde army. Celestine and Faith are legit, so are flamer Immolators and HB Retributors. I'm not sold on Exorcists, imagifiers, or the Dialogus yet.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 04:12:06


Post by: Mmmpi


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The Exorcist turned into an equivalent of a stock Leman Russ Battle Tank, which is problematic because the stock Leman Russ Battle Tank is crap. I'm not sure why every other missile launcher does D6 damage while ours does D3.


My guess is because every other missile system I remember the stats for is only AP:-2, not -4. That and BS 3+.

Just my $.02


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 05:11:06


Post by: pretre


 deviantduck wrote:
 pretre wrote:

Vanguard -
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
Troop - 34 Conscripts - 102
Elite - Commissar with BP/CS - 31
Elite - 4 MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma - 64
Elite - 4 MT Command Squad with 4 Plasma - 64


Did you price these with Elysian drop troops? They're cheaper and the plasma guns do 3 damage instead of 2 when overcharged. I'm currently working on 4x command squads.

No I did not! I'll take a look.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Canoness are also needed to fill HQ slots.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 05:41:45


Post by: Mavnas


 Mmmpi wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The Exorcist turned into an equivalent of a stock Leman Russ Battle Tank, which is problematic because the stock Leman Russ Battle Tank is crap. I'm not sure why every other missile launcher does D6 damage while ours does D3.


My guess is because every other missile system I remember the stats for is only AP:-2, not -4. That and BS 3+.

Just my $.02


Yeah, but missiles in general aren't as good as lascannons, which are d6 and higher S. Against T8 3+, S9 AP-3 is better than S8 AP-4 and against T7, the d6 outweighs the advantages of one more AP. The most comparable vehicle the 4 lascannon predator is much more effective and reliable for only 40 more points.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 06:10:37


Post by: ERJAK


Mavnas wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
So... Running the numbers, the Canoness just looks bad. Rerolling 1s to hit seems pretty decent at face value, but for most sister profiles, you're looking at an improvement of 11% damage output. The same amount of points invested into Dominion or Retributor squads nets so much more firepower, to the point where the Canoness isn't really justifying her value until she's buffing over 400 points worth of firepower at any given time.

If you spend the points to kit her out for combat, she'll have a hard time justifying that cost too. As a counter-assault unit, her T3 and 3+ save don't give her the durability to act as a meaningful deterrent. As an assault character, her inability to take a jump pack leaves her slowly and helplessly ground-pounding, making it impossible for her to act as the high mobility shock-unit/assassin that her eviscerator would be best at (it doesn't help that the Eviscerator itself is just... okay).

She just has so much trouble filling an important roll in a list, and with Celestine being such a ridiculous no-brainer, there's really no reason to take a Canoness. You're better off just saving the points and loading up a Sisters squad instead.

Thoughts?


Your math is off a bit. She's a 16.6% buff meaning she needs to buff 6 × 45 = 260 points of Sisters, which is more managable. Also if one of those units fires twice due to AoF that free set of shots is better where an extra squad wouldn't improve the original squad's AoF. Mainly though she's an extra 45 point HQ for when you need more than 1 like for a Brigade.


His math is right, you only get 66.67% of the 16.67% of shots you reroll ones on.

That said, I really think he's underestimating the canonesses abilities. She's not a deterrant in the backlines, she's a punishment. With either an eviscerator or an infernus pistol+power axe, she's pretty scary for plenty of things that would come after the backlines and is great for situations where, for example, a ravager trundles up and you blow it to bits and kill the guys who come out. S3 is way better than it used to be and cover combined with her free 4+ invul make her 3+ save not nearly as problematic as it was.

And she's just so cheap, a canoness with poweraxe, infernus pistol is only 62pts. She kills one terminator or warptalon and her buff becomes essentially free. Even combi-melta eviscerator doesn't push her over 100 points and she'll make a trigon regret every decision it ever made (and wouldn't that be a hoot?).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mavnas wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The Exorcist turned into an equivalent of a stock Leman Russ Battle Tank, which is problematic because the stock Leman Russ Battle Tank is crap. I'm not sure why every other missile launcher does D6 damage while ours does D3.


My guess is because every other missile system I remember the stats for is only AP:-2, not -4. That and BS 3+.

Just my $.02


Yeah, but missiles in general aren't as good as lascannons, which are d6 and higher S. Against T8 3+, S9 AP-3 is better than S8 AP-4 and against T7, the d6 outweighs the advantages of one more AP. The most comparable vehicle the 4 lascannon predator is much more effective and reliable for only 40 more points.


The extra wound and toughness shouldn't be discounted. And if the exorcist can get AoF, then it's the clear winner as taking 2 with 2 imagifiers gets you effectively 3 Exorcists for the price of 2 predators and lets them reposition without penalty.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 06:34:51


Post by: Mavnas


ERJAK wrote:
Mavnas wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
So... Running the numbers, the Canoness just looks bad. Rerolling 1s to hit seems pretty decent at face value, but for most sister profiles, you're looking at an improvement of 11% damage output. The same amount of points invested into Dominion or Retributor squads nets so much more firepower, to the point where the Canoness isn't really justifying her value until she's buffing over 400 points worth of firepower at any given time.

If you spend the points to kit her out for combat, she'll have a hard time justifying that cost too. As a counter-assault unit, her T3 and 3+ save don't give her the durability to act as a meaningful deterrent. As an assault character, her inability to take a jump pack leaves her slowly and helplessly ground-pounding, making it impossible for her to act as the high mobility shock-unit/assassin that her eviscerator would be best at (it doesn't help that the Eviscerator itself is just... okay).

She just has so much trouble filling an important roll in a list, and with Celestine being such a ridiculous no-brainer, there's really no reason to take a Canoness. You're better off just saving the points and loading up a Sisters squad instead.

Thoughts?


Your math is off a bit. She's a 16.6% buff meaning she needs to buff 6 × 45 = 260 points of Sisters, which is more managable. Also if one of those units fires twice due to AoF that free set of shots is better where an extra squad wouldn't improve the original squad's AoF. Mainly though she's an extra 45 point HQ for when you need more than 1 like for a Brigade.


His math is right, you only get 66.67% of the 16.67% of shots you reroll ones on.


Yeah, but going from 66.67% -> 77.777% is 77.777/66.67 = 1.166666x more hits. Rerolling 1s always yields 7/6 the number of hits/wounds you would otherwise have gotten, which means all other things being equal a 1s reroll needs to buff 6x its value in points. Obviously avoiding 1s with plasma or boosting a unit that shoots twice with AoF makes this even more effective than just adding more bodies.

The extra wound and toughness shouldn't be discounted. And if the exorcist can get AoF, then it's the clear winner as taking 2 with 2 imagifiers gets you effectively 3 Exorcists for the price of 2 predators and lets them reposition without penalty.


Only if you believe exorcists can use AoF. I believe that will be fixed at least in competitive settings... and outside, who cares about small differences in efficiency.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 07:30:42


Post by: Amishprn86


I like the Canones i take one each game and place her in the back with Ret HB unit behind a wall, she is good as a counter Charge and as others said Re-roll1's when shooting 2x is pretty good, especially over 2-3 turns.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 12:43:08


Post by: deviantduck


New rumored release schedule for Codices is out. Sisters slated for September. Spikey bits, Bols, and and 4chan can't all be wrong can they? Oh, wait. Yes. Yes they can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mavnas wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The Exorcist turned into an equivalent of a stock Leman Russ Battle Tank, which is problematic because the stock Leman Russ Battle Tank is crap. I'm not sure why every other missile launcher does D6 damage while ours does D3.


My guess is because every other missile system I remember the stats for is only AP:-2, not -4. That and BS 3+.

Just my $.02


Yeah, but missiles in general aren't as good as lascannons, which are d6 and higher S. Against T8 3+, S9 AP-3 is better than S8 AP-4 and against T7, the d6 outweighs the advantages of one more AP. The most comparable vehicle the 4 lascannon predator is much more effective and reliable for only 40 more points.


The best argument against the pred is right there. Pay 25% more than an exorcist and get a better unit! Well, I sure hope so. I wouldn't want to pay more and get the same power level. also, two las predators cost the same as two exorcists and a squad of heavy bolter rets. Preds look a lot less appealing in that comparison. However, my biggest reason for not taking laspreds is because they're laspreds. In the current meta of willy nilly wild west pre-codex unbound detachments, I would like to hope that the single faction bonuses promised long ago in the soon to be released codices might outweigh the potential power of our current mix and match meta. If I have comparable choices betwen a sisters unit and a non-stisters unit, i'll take the sisters unit every time. It is, after all, my chosen faction. Furthermore, that's a nice traditional tank you have there, wait a minute, what's this? Is that a weaponized pipe organ?!?!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 13:33:39


Post by: MrFlutterPie


Saw this on Facebook.



Looks like GW might be addressing these things sooner rather then later.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 13:40:42


Post by: pretre


Nice!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 14:57:38


Post by: Fafnir


 deviantduck wrote:
New rumored release schedule for Codices is out. Sisters slated for September. Spikey bits, Bols, and and 4chan can't all be wrong can they? Oh, wait. Yes. Yes they can.


That would be an update that comes 9 years and 9 months sooner than I would expect.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 17:19:42


Post by: RabbitMaster


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Worth mention: Basilisk, 2d6 shots, D3 damage, S9. Weaker AP and Ballistic skill, but only 108 points. 50 points less than the Exorcist for a better gun.

Don't look into the FW books then because you'll find the earthshaker battery that cost exactly half the price of an exorcist. And two earthshaker simply outperform a single exorcist missile launcher in every way.

My exorcists feels like a mixed bag. They are globally useful, but the randomness really gets them. So I want to get rid of them, but not really.
I whish they had a less random number of shots, something like roll 2D6 pick the highest for the number of shots or even just 2D3 shots.

The AP-4 is fantastic though. being able to straight out ignore 3+ saves (which are everywhere) or significantly diminish the cover or the few 2+ units is wonderful.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Saw this on Facebook.



Looks like GW might be addressing these things sooner rather then later.

Let's hope they also spotted the 2pts hurricane bolter for SM. I had hard time to believe it was the same price as a stormbolter but as effective as 3.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 17:33:44


Post by: Mavnas


 deviantduck wrote:
New rumored release schedule for Codices is out. Sisters slated for September. Spikey bits, Bols, and and 4chan can't all be wrong can they? Oh, wait. Yes. Yes they can.


Ah, but did they say September of which year?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 18:06:22


Post by: Melissia


I'd be surprised if it was this year. Pleasantly so I mean. I really hope it doesn't mean it's rushed...


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 18:10:33


Post by: pretre


This is really not news, folks. The 'source' is 4chan which is basically the bathroom wall of the internet. They have a miserable track record for rumors.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 18:11:11


Post by: Melissia


True, I'm pretty sure their "rumors" are closer to "trolling attempts".


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 18:33:18


Post by: Taikishi


That said, since mid-May I've been hearing rumors that Codexes will launch (sans-models) at a rate of about 2-3 a month starting in July.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 18:35:12


Post by: Melissia


Eurgh, I really hope we don't get a book without models again... I know we will, but goddamnit can't I hope for more?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 18:43:40


Post by: pretre


Taikishi wrote:
That said, since mid-May I've been hearing rumors that Codexes will launch (sans-models) at a rate of about 2-3 a month starting in July.

Source?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 20:13:41


Post by: Voldrak


Been watching a few battle reports that involve penitent engines and I want to give them another go in my next list.


Every report I have been watching however puts them at 3 Engines in a single unit.

I have been thinking that a Canoness and 3 single Engines would be an easy way to fullfill the spearhead requirements.

Pros of running them separate:

1. Can stick together to defend a spot, or go do their own stuff on their own
2. Opponent cannot simply put all of a units firepower into your unit without thinking about it first. A Pen Engine on 1 wound is still 100% functionnal. If he concentrates all firepower on one to kill it, he might end up overkilling it preventing damage on the rest of the unit. If he split fires, he might up end killing neither.
3. You miss a charge, you have two more that can attempt the charge assuming you ran them together.
4. Easy Command point gain through a spearhead detachment


Cons:

1. In combat, you're only selecting one Engine to fight with. If you opponent interrupts you, he could kill one of your engine before it swings.
2. Heavy Flamer hits from one Engine could put the target unit out of range of other Engines if you opponent picks casualties carefully.
3. Using a command point to re-roll a charge dices affects only one engine.

The pros seem to outweight the cons for me. Can anyone think of any better reasons to run them as a unit of three?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 20:24:43


Post by: pretre


I really want to try them. This is a good breakdown.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 20:55:27


Post by: Amishprn86


Why not run them in a squad? Personally i think i will be running 2 in a squad (ive ran them as 1) and i think it would work better as a squad after playing it.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 21:04:15


Post by: deviantduck


Voldrak wrote:
Cons:

1. In combat, you're only selecting one Engine to fight with. If you opponent interrupts you, he could kill one of your engine before it swings.


Keep in mind though, this is only if you charge with multiple units. If you charge with 1 unit they can't use the CP ability.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 21:05:43


Post by: pretre


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Why not run them in a squad? Personally i think i will be running 2 in a squad (ive ran them as 1) and i think it would work better as a squad after playing it.

He kind of listed the pros and cons.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/28 23:13:32


Post by: Drider


Voldrak wrote:
Been watching a few battle reports that involve penitent engines and I want to give them another go in my next list.


Every report I have been watching however puts them at 3 Engines in a single unit.

I have been thinking that a Canoness and 3 single Engines would be an easy way to fullfill the spearhead requirements.

Pros of running them separate:

1. Can stick together to defend a spot, or go do their own stuff on their own
2. Opponent cannot simply put all of a units firepower into your unit without thinking about it first. A Pen Engine on 1 wound is still 100% functionnal. If he concentrates all firepower on one to kill it, he might end up overkilling it preventing damage on the rest of the unit. If he split fires, he might up end killing neither.
3. You miss a charge, you have two more that can attempt the charge assuming you ran them together.
4. Easy Command point gain through a spearhead detachment


Cons:

1. In combat, you're only selecting one Engine to fight with. If you opponent interrupts you, he could kill one of your engine before it swings.
2. Heavy Flamer hits from one Engine could put the target unit out of range of other Engines if you opponent picks casualties carefully.
3. Using a command point to re-roll a charge dices affects only one engine.

The pros seem to outweight the cons for me. Can anyone think of any better reasons to run them as a unit of three?


Add to this,

Pro, Individual rolls for Desperate for redemption, more likely to hit a natural average.

Con, devalues a command point reroll. you 1 roll for desperate for redemption for a squad, even if you fail you can command point to reroll and all 3 get to attack again.
Con, if they stick together and one explodes then it puts d3 mortal wounds onto each of the other penitents rather than 1d3 for the unit.

I've played a few games now with a squad of three and what i've found is they've got a very high threat presence on the table. People know they have to be taken care of before they can go to work and at t6 w7 sv4+ it's not exactly hard to deal with them. I it makes them a good distraction carnifex but it's still 387 points, you're not far off bringing a knight for that many points... If you're not using them as distraction then you really have to cut you're back line and front load threat if you want them to get in., Domions in immolators vanguard moving, Big C with seraphim double moving, all to screen on turn 1 while the penitents move up and at best only start to make an impact on turn 2. They're good at what they do but if you seriously want to use them for anything other than a distraction then they require you to build you're whole list around how you're going to keep them alive long enough to get them into combat.

It's really bad to say this about them but i honestly think they've only got one viable use, a distraction. They're still a glass cannon and still die to easily. I'd say they are a trap unit. you're neutering you're back line to much if you want to build a list around them.

With all that being said though. they are incredibly fun to play with if they make it to where they need to be. Running Big C, Seraphim, 9 penitent engines and a knight at 2k might be fun though. like an imperial version of the Ork killakan/morkanaught list.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/29 18:13:13


Post by: Taikishi


 pretre wrote:
Taikishi wrote:
That said, since mid-May I've been hearing rumors that Codexes will launch (sans-models) at a rate of about 2-3 a month starting in July.

Source?


An unreliable one - one of the guys at my FLGS. I can ask him where he's getting his info but I won't see him before Saturday EST at the earliest. He's been repeating it just about every weekend line gospel and, tbh, here and B&C are the only places I get my 40K news and rumors.

As for Penitent Engines, try two squads of two if you have the points/models for it. Has strengths of being a unit with the flexibility units of one would bring.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/29 18:19:27


Post by: pretre


No biggie. That's basically not a source.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/29 20:31:02


Post by: jim300


Is Celestine's additional Act of Faith is One use only? Or she can use it every turns? I thought she can use every turns, but my friend's rule interpretation makes me little confuse..


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/29 20:40:15


Post by: ERJAK


jim300 wrote:
Is Celestine's additional Act of Faith is One use only? Or she can use it every turns? I thought she can use every turns, but my friend's rule interpretation makes me little confuse..


The wording is a bit odd now that I look at it but it's every turn, your friend's wrong.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 05:22:18


Post by: Fafnir


Very definitely every turn. With that wording, it would only be once per game if it were very specifically implied (see Hunter Killer Missiles).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 10:53:30


Post by: Rubenite


Spoiler:
Hi team, just wanted to submit a compliation of 'Index: Imperium 2' Adeptus Ministorum / Adepta Sororitas rules queries to please pass to the studio for a future FAQ:

- Units that DO NOT possess the 'Acts of Faith' ability but still have the <ORDER> or <ADEPTA SORORITAS> keywords - can they perform an Act of Faith as a result of the Imagifier's 'Simulacrum Imperialis' ability or Celestine's 'Saintly Blessings' ability? The wording of these abilities does not make it clear if the target unit also requires the Acts of Faith ability to be able to perform the Act of Faith.

- Acts of Faith do not seem to occur during a phase, as defined by the phases listed in the Core Rules. As such, in Matched Play, is there any restriction on using the same stratagem (such as the Command Reroll) multiple times whilst testing for Act of Faiths and while resolving their effects?

- The Retributor Superior has a leadership characteristic of 7, whereas every other unit's Superiors have a leadership of at least 8. Is this a typo?

- Celestine seems to be missing the unique model restriction.

- If Celestine has died a second time (after being revived the first time using her Miraculous Intervention ability) and there are still Geminae Superia alive, can she be further revived by using a 'Spirit of the Martyr' Act of Faith or the Hospitaller's 'Healer' ability? (On a side note, if an additional ability was added to her datasheet to allow for wounds to always be allocated to the Geminae first, even if Celestine is wounded and they are not, this would mitigate this possibility for a cheeky further revival).

- Should Seraphim's 'Angelic Visage' ability read "you *CAN* reroll failed Shield of Faith invulnerable saves for this unit"? Presently if they are affected by Celestine's Beacon of Faith ability they are forced to reroll rolls of 5 when making a Shield of Faith Invulnerable save, as modifiers are applied after rerolls. Adding the word 'can' would allow the player to choose not to reroll the 5s and then make the save.

- The Seraphim Hand Flamer has D6 hits instead of D3 as seen on a weapon with the same name in Index Imperium 1. Please do not change this, but to avoid confusion could these weapons be renamed to a 'Sororitas Hand Flamer'?

- The Adeptus Ministorum Storm Bolter costs are listed at 4pts - this is inconsistent with every other imperial army receiving them for only 2pts (including Sisters of Silence and the Sororitas Repressor). Is this a mistake?

- The last wargear option on the Canoness is unclear as to whether she can trade both weapons for Pistols/Ranged Weapons or just one. Whilst of course two combi-weapons would be silly, a Canoness with two plasma pistols was previously possible and a very popular (and awesome!) conversion.

- Similary, it is not currently possible for a Superior in any unit to take a Boltgun and a Power Weapon, which a lot of the available models actually have on them.

- If the Penitent Engine's 'Desperate for Redemption' ability successfully activates, can your opponent activate the 'Counter Offensive' stratagem to attack with one of their own units before the second lot of attacks resolves?

- In the Adeptus Ministorum ranged weapons summary, the Twin Multi-Melta is missing its ability as seen on the Immolator datasheet.


FORGEWORLD

Some small quick questions for the forgeworld team for 'Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Adeptus Astartes'.

- If the Sororitas Repressor uses its smoke launchers ability, can the embarked unit still shoot using the Firing Ports ability?

- Is the wargear option for an additional Heavy Flamer or Storm Bolter intended to replace any of Repressor's standard weapons?

- If the Repressor is within 1" of an enemy unit, can the embarked unit still fire during the shooting phase using the Firing Ports ability? If so, what restrictions (if any) are in place for this shooting attack?

- As the Repressor can only carry <ORDER> infantry, it may not carry the Hospitaller and Dialogus. Was this intended? Why not restrict it to <ADEPTA SORORITAS> infantry instead?


Added a couple of items to the list, submitted via Facebook on Wednesday night, and got this reply:



Love the new GW. It'll be great when they get their new FAQ submission/voting page up on the community website (previewed at Adepticon).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 12:02:50


Post by: Shandara


The communication is nice, but the proof is in the pudding and the type of pudding.

Let's hope they are quick at actually putting out FAQs for all indices.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 12:34:58


Post by: deviantduck


I played a 4 knight list last night with my list I posted pages ago.
celestine/seraphim/doms/repressors/rets/exos/imagifer/canoness/hospital/vindicare.

He had 99 total wounds starting the game. Did 50 wounds bottom of 1. Killed his warden, did 12 to the gallant, did 14 to the atrapos. His crusader was untouched. Tabled him bottom of 7.

Heroes of the game:
Hospitaler - I had 2 and they brought back a few rets and healed a single exorcist 4 times for a total of 9 wounds. He just couldn't kill it. It hovered around 3-5 wounds for most of the game.
Celestine - Killed the softened up warden in assault dealing 8 damage. The AoF that lets her swing before the movement is crazy good. She stripped a ton of wounds off the gallant too.
Vindicare - Rolled triple 6s to strip 3 points off the crusader bottom of 6.
His Atrapos - The chump probably made 50 4+ saves on me. Turns 3 - 5 he soaked everything up with his 4++.

Zeroes of the game:
Seraphim - dropped in to hold the only backfield objective. Died. (as expected)

Take away: Ignore the atrapos. Its scary up close, but the crusader has a weaker save so it dies faster and puts out way more damage.

Everything else did what it was supposed to do. This was my 2nd 8th game and I'm digging our current army.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 13:37:35


Post by: IandI


I am mystified how you did that much damage in one turn! I have a similar list (Celestine, Dom's, Exos, HB Retributors, Etc) and I played a game Wednesday against a land raider for the first time. I jumped him with 2 Dominion squads and 2 Exorcists turn 1 and only managed to take like 10 or 11 wounds down. My rolls weren't great, but I would've thought 8 close range meltas and 2 Exos with rerollable 1's would do more.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 14:28:30


Post by: KestrelM1


 deviantduck wrote:

Heroes of the game:
Hospitaler - I had 2 and they brought back a few rets and healed a single exorcist 4 times for a total of 9 wounds. He just couldn't kill it. It hovered around 3-5 wounds for most of the game.


Just FYI for next time, Hospitalers can only heal Adepta Sororitas Infantry. Sounds like it was a fun game, though!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 14:37:19


Post by: deviantduck


KestrelM1 wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:

Heroes of the game:
Hospitaler - I had 2 and they brought back a few rets and healed a single exorcist 4 times for a total of 9 wounds. He just couldn't kill it. It hovered around 3-5 wounds for most of the game.


Just FYI for next time, Hospitalers can only heal Adepta Sororitas Infantry. Sounds like it was a fun game, though!


Oh snap. I'm a cheating scumbag. Thanks for pointing it out. I owe my buddy a beer now.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 15:28:05


Post by: Melissia


At least it's better to owe them a beer than a bear.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 15:33:55


Post by: deviantduck


 Melissia wrote:
At least it's better to owe them a beer than a bear.




Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 15:51:07


Post by: Melissia


You're welcome


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 16:02:07


Post by: pretre


Which brings up the point that there should be a Sister Vehicular.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 16:12:19


Post by: deviantduck


Adepta Ministorum Techsister? Techabbess? Techprioress. Techpostulant.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 16:36:47


Post by: Melissia


Maybe Sororitas Mechaniplomat or some other less ridiculous name-- a religious diplomat between the ecclesiarchy and mechanicus to try to ensure mechanicus loyalty through preaching the Omnissiah doctrine and denouncing other doctrines that don't encourage worship of the Emperor.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 17:25:46


Post by: deviantduck


or.... Wrench Wench?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 17:26:53


Post by: Melissia


I'd rather the official in-universe title sound respectful as opposed to sexist.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 17:33:47


Post by: pretre


 Melissia wrote:
I'd rather the official in-universe title sound respectful as opposed to sexist.
\
Far be it for me to agree with M, but yeah...


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 18:50:02


Post by: Captain Joystick


I was under the impression that the Mechanicus quietly resents having to support the Sororitas. In fact, I recall someone telling me they were so sore over the Fornosian Accords that they slapped together the immolator and quietly concealed the real STC designs that were recovered and released them later as the hellhound...

I don't think either organization is ready to acknowledge the other's claim of divine right.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 19:26:08


Post by: Mr Morden


 deviantduck wrote:
Adepta Ministorum Techsister? Techabbess? Techprioress. Techpostulant.


in my old fandex I had:

Apparatus Guardianus
The Adepta Sororitas maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for the powerful and arcane machinery
at their disposal. Years of training go towards achieving this respected position and aspirants must learn how to
divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgy of maintenance and constantly study the routines of service. It is a
position of great honour to care for this sacred technology and the Sororitas were granted this concession from the
Adeptus Mechancius following the Icara Crusade. Apparatus gaurdianus are seldom risked din battle for they are
invaluable in not merely maintaining the Orders weaponry and vehicles but passing that knowledge to their aspirants.


Unlike the Astartes, the Sororitas do not send those they choose to learn the arcane art of technomancy to the metal
worlds of the Mechanicus, but are allowed by ancient treaty to pass on their knowledge within their orders. Aspirants are
few in number and seldom risked in battle if it can be avoided.


Be nice to have something that discusses how the Sororitas maintain their Tech.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 20:11:14


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Melissia wrote:
I'd rather the official in-universe title sound respectful as opposed to sexist.


I agree. Fake latin is good.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 20:24:42


Post by: Mmmpi


I've been using AoF to repair tanks.

Spirit heals 1d3 to a unit, doesn't specify infantry.

Granted, I'm in the Imagifers and Celestine works on anything sisters camp, so grain of salt I guess?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 20:33:38


Post by: pretre


 Mmmpi wrote:
I've been using AoF to repair tanks.

Spirit heals 1d3 to a unit, doesn't specify infantry.

Granted, I'm in the Imagifers and Celestine works on anything sisters camp, so grain of salt I guess?

That does bring up a good point though. Why would you ever take a Hospitaller?
A Hospitaller restores wounds within 3" to infantry on a 4+
An imagifer can restore wounds to any Order unit on a 4+ and if you don't want to do that, can trigger other acts of faith.
For 10 points, you get a lot more utility.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 20:42:56


Post by: IandI


Agreed. I don't see any value in the Hospitalier unless you just really love the model or need another Elite choice and have run out of Imagifier models. Speaking of which, I've been running two Imagifiers and a Dialogus but I'm not convinced that they're worth the points. If I drop them and a few random girls I can get another Rhino. How many Imagifiers are you guys running at 2k?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 20:44:13


Post by: Melissia


The main reason I got excited about hospitallers over imagifiers in the other thread was before I read the fine print of their rules. If imagifiers healed every squad within that 3" aura they'd be very much a valid option to take instead of imagifiers. But they only heal one :(


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 20:57:23


Post by: deviantduck


 Melissia wrote:
I'd rather the official in-universe title sound respectful as opposed to sexist.


Good point. Instead... Spanner Wench


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 21:01:57


Post by: Melissia


No.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 21:04:23


Post by: pretre


IandI wrote:
Agreed. I don't see any value in the Hospitalier unless you just really love the model or need another Elite choice and have run out of Imagifier models. Speaking of which, I've been running two Imagifiers and a Dialogus but I'm not convinced that they're worth the points. If I drop them and a few random girls I can get another Rhino. How many Imagifiers are you guys running at 2k?

I have a banner bearer for pretty much every one of my squads, so I just converted them to Imagifers.
I'm running 2 at 1500 and probably 3-4 at 2k.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 21:37:30


Post by: Mmmpi


IandI wrote:
Agreed. I don't see any value in the Hospitalier unless you just really love the model or need another Elite choice and have run out of Imagifier models. Speaking of which, I've been running two Imagifiers and a Dialogus but I'm not convinced that they're worth the points. If I drop them and a few random girls I can get another Rhino. How many Imagifiers are you guys running at 2k?


My 2k list has 5.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 21:44:36


Post by: BlackTalos


 Mythantor wrote:
I just thought it would be cleaner to start a new thred for 8th edition considering the old one is 243 pages.


New thread to herald my return! LoL

Been a few year(s) without posting, but i still get the very best info from this thread.
8th Ed. Sisters are looking good, especially with a few Repressors in the mix. They will have to do until Rhinos / Immolators get Fire points back...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 deviantduck wrote:
 Hoitash wrote:
On the subject of Forgeworld: are Avenger Strike Fighters still a thing we can take? It's taking me forever to finish painting mine and I'm just curious if there's a point (I'll still finish it of course but figured I'd ask.)


It will be in the FW: Astra Militarum Index that drops Saturday.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Index-Astra-Militarum-2017

As Pretre said, it will most likely not have any valuable keywords for us other than <Imperial>. We don't have any of its rules yet.


Dragging back an old subject, possibly, but these rules are out:
Faction Keywords seem to be: Imperium, Astra Militarum, Aeronautica Imperialis.

Been out of the hobby / loop for too long, but how did we ever get this plane into our Lists in the past?

I vaguely remember some wording in the FW book that they could be Adepta Sororitas Heavy supports, but i've now come to doubt myself as i did not have that book?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 22:43:08


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


IandI wrote:
Agreed. I don't see any value in the Hospitalier unless you just really love the model or need another Elite choice and have run out of Imagifier models. Speaking of which, I've been running two Imagifiers and a Dialogus but I'm not convinced that they're worth the points. If I drop them and a few random girls I can get another Rhino. How many Imagifiers are you guys running at 2k?


That depends on how many Seraphim and Retributors I end up using. Right now, none, because Celestine services the only unit I brought more than adequately, and because Seraphim are insanely expensive, I'm at a shortage for them.

If I can get 2 more [full] Seraphim units, I might go with 3 Imagifiers to launch them forwards, and 2 Retributor units for them to support every turn thereafter.


That's the real question. Right now, my list brings with a Shadowsword for exploding knights and other big things, and reducing the total number of drops I have. The only other things in my backfield are an Exorcist and a Canoness, everything else is Dominions, or Celestine and her Seraphim. Do I want to swap the Shadowsword for 2x additional Seraphim units, 2x Retributor units, and a few Imagifiers? They're a lot of drops, and I don't think they're quite as good as the Shadowsword. The Seraphim and Rets would net me 2 extra CP, though, and I don't feel the 4 I have is quite enough.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/06/30 23:43:21


Post by: Mavnas


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
IandI wrote:
Agreed. I don't see any value in the Hospitalier unless you just really love the model or need another Elite choice and have run out of Imagifier models. Speaking of which, I've been running two Imagifiers and a Dialogus but I'm not convinced that they're worth the points. If I drop them and a few random girls I can get another Rhino. How many Imagifiers are you guys running at 2k?


That depends on how many Seraphim and Retributors I end up using. Right now, none, because Celestine services the only unit I brought more than adequately, and because Seraphim are insanely expensive, I'm at a shortage for them.

If I can get 2 more [full] Seraphim units, I might go with 3 Imagifiers to launch them forwards, and 2 Retributor units for them to support every turn thereafter.


That's the real question. Right now, my list brings with a Shadowsword for exploding knights and other big things, and reducing the total number of drops I have. The only other things in my backfield are an Exorcist and a Canoness, everything else is Dominions, or Celestine and her Seraphim. Do I want to swap the Shadowsword for 2x additional Seraphim units, 2x Retributor units, and a few Imagifiers? They're a lot of drops, and I don't think they're quite as good as the Shadowsword. The Seraphim and Rets would net me 2 extra CP, though, and I don't feel the 4 I have is quite enough.


I built a Shadowsword + Brigade list, but it also relies on guard with cheap plasma to make it all fit and also makes some questionable choices based on what I have already painted (does a list really need 20 HB? Handflamers seem overpriced especially in a list that is super tight on points) and trying to limit the cheesiness (No Elysian drop troops instead of scions even though the 2 ppm savings is badly needed, no filling FA slots with a single Cyberwolf and keeping the list to just Sisters and Guard in general).


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 00:00:39


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


Mavnas wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
IandI wrote:
Agreed. I don't see any value in the Hospitalier unless you just really love the model or need another Elite choice and have run out of Imagifier models. Speaking of which, I've been running two Imagifiers and a Dialogus but I'm not convinced that they're worth the points. If I drop them and a few random girls I can get another Rhino. How many Imagifiers are you guys running at 2k?


That depends on how many Seraphim and Retributors I end up using. Right now, none, because Celestine services the only unit I brought more than adequately, and because Seraphim are insanely expensive, I'm at a shortage for them.

If I can get 2 more [full] Seraphim units, I might go with 3 Imagifiers to launch them forwards, and 2 Retributor units for them to support every turn thereafter.


That's the real question. Right now, my list brings with a Shadowsword for exploding knights and other big things, and reducing the total number of drops I have. The only other things in my backfield are an Exorcist and a Canoness, everything else is Dominions, or Celestine and her Seraphim. Do I want to swap the Shadowsword for 2x additional Seraphim units, 2x Retributor units, and a few Imagifiers? They're a lot of drops, and I don't think they're quite as good as the Shadowsword. The Seraphim and Rets would net me 2 extra CP, though, and I don't feel the 4 I have is quite enough.


I built a Shadowsword + Brigade list, but it also relies on guard with cheap plasma to make it all fit and also makes some questionable choices based on what I have already painted (does a list really need 20 HB? Handflamers seem overpriced especially in a list that is super tight on points) and trying to limit the cheesiness (No Elysian drop troops instead of scions even though the 2 ppm savings is badly needed, no filling FA slots with a single Cyberwolf and keeping the list to just Sisters and Guard in general).


I don't think I'll be aiming for a full Brigade at 2000, but the 4 I have is fairly, well, thin. I have 1 for seizing the initiative, and 1 reserved for Celestine, which leaves only 2 re-rolls for the Volcano Cannon to get, and no opportunity to break charges or anything of the sort.

Even as is, it has 9 drops, which is bordering on too many, because the other lists in this points level I've seen have about the same amount, and because I can't take charges and am generally capitalizing on Dominions' Vanguard move for an alpha-strike, I can't really afford to go second.

I could drop the Exorcist and add in yet another squad of Dominions, making them share a Repressor with another squad, but then I would be very short on units to secure my backfield and forward natural objectives.

I'm considering switching out more Immolators for Repressors, and taking more Dominions with Meltaguns to make up the difference in antitank power, so I can double-up in transports to further reduce drops.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 01:42:21


Post by: Mavnas


Yeah, I think that list ends up haviing 18 drops.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 05:31:48


Post by: IandI


I've been taking lists with lots of support units and a bunch of drops so I haven't even come close to going first yet, and it doesn't seem like a big disadvantage, because by the time my opponent has fully deployed I haven't put many meaningful units down. It allows me to carefully counter deploy and put my heavy hitters where they can absorb the opening salvos, and respond in kind. My deployment looks about like this: Support Canoness, Dialogus, Imagifier, Exorcist, priest, HB Retributors, Exorcist, 10 Sisters, Canoness, 5 BSS in Immolator, 10 Sisters, Seraphim, Celestine, Dominions, Dominions. By the time I put down the priest, I have a pretty good idea of what the other guy will be trying to do and act accordingly. With how tough tanks are and easy 2+ saves for ground pounders, I haven't seen much of a serious alpha strike yet ( but I'm sure it'll come) and what has happened so far is my enemies have obligingly driven directly into melta, flamer, and Celestine range. Granted, my first few games have been against assault heavy armies (Ork horde, Wolves in Rhinos, Marines in land raider and Rhinos, Mechanized Death Company) It helps that we play with a lot of terrain, and having 10-12 tall buildings on our tables is very common.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I haven't even used the Dominions Vanguard rule yet. They've been hiding out and ambushing approaching tank columns-to somewhat mixed results. I've found flamer Immolators to be excellent roadblocks, and have thrown them out to be charge bait. With 3, it's hard to tie up all of them, so she'll fall back and let the others create a rolling volley of auto hit AP -1 fire.

Its an Australian Peel but with flamer thrower tanks and a few chicks with meltaguns...


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 06:55:18


Post by: Voldrak


2000 point game tonight.

Went for a double outrider along with a single spearhead at 2000.

Played a Deathwing list that had a Land Raider Crusader, Belial and all terminators.

My opponent had turn first turn so I null deployed him so he would have to deepstrike in front of my lines (no room behind me or to my side). I failed to seize

He went on to concede at the end of my second turn. All he had left were Belial, an apothecary and a chaplain. I had lost two seraphims and three dominions so a little over 60 points.

We spoke about the game after the fact and he really lost when he decided to keep things in reserve for turn two and dropped units on different flanks. He would have needed to all drop in the same spot to make proper use of Belial and crush one of my flanks. instead he allowed me to pick all of his units apart and was unable to generate enough firepower to open my tanks.

SIsters are in a very good spot this edition. We have mobility and very good weapons to chose from. I have never been this happy to be a sister player




Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 06:55:36


Post by: Mr Morden


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 deviantduck wrote:
 Hoitash wrote:
On the subject of Forgeworld: are Avenger Strike Fighters still a thing we can take? It's taking me forever to finish painting mine and I'm just curious if there's a point (I'll still finish it of course but figured I'd ask.)


Dragging back an old subject, possibly, but these rules are out:
Faction Keywords seem to be: Imperium, Astra Militarum, Aeronautica Imperialis.

Been out of the hobby / loop for too long, but how did we ever get this plane into our Lists in the past?

I vaguely remember some wording in the FW book that they could be Adepta Sororitas Heavy supports, but i've now come to doubt myself as i did not have that book?


You just add it as a Flyer choice as both AS and AA are Imperium Keywords. It just won't receive any bonuses from anything that enhances "Adepta Sororitas" units but that's the only issue.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 10:29:40


Post by: the_Jakman


Has anyone tried this idea?

6 Doms or 6 BSS with stormbolters in a Repressor. Add 4 Arco flaggelants or DCAs. The arcos jump out and charge when the opportunity is right, while the squad utilises the fire points. You could charge with the Repressor first to absorb the overwatch. 4 arcos do 8d6 S5 attacks, or 4 DCAs 16 -2AP attacks. Doms won't be able to use vanguard though. A BSS unit like this comes out to 252pts.

A group of 3 of these units seems to be a recent starting point for an army.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 12:02:56


Post by: ERJAK


the_Jakman wrote:
Has anyone tried this idea?

6 Doms or 6 BSS with stormbolters in a Repressor. Add 4 Arco flaggelants or DCAs. The arcos jump out and charge when the opportunity is right, while the squad utilises the fire points. You could charge with the Repressor first to absorb the overwatch. 4 arcos do 8d6 S5 attacks, or 4 DCAs 16 -2AP attacks. Doms won't be able to use vanguard though. A BSS unit like this comes out to 252pts.

A group of 3 of these units seems to be a decent starting point for an army.


16 DCA attacks only kill 4 tactical marines and you'd lose them to pretty much any counter attack, even the remaining 6 tactical marines should swing and kill 3-4 and 4 arcos is wildly unreliable. Then you're combining different range bands, adding unnecessary bodies, gimping one or both units, and there are just so many better options.

Take the points from the 4 DCA and buy 5 seraphim with a hand flamer girl, increases mobility, increases target saturation, excellent for crippling thing like dev squads, honor guards celestine, etc. Trying to cram CQC and shooting into a repressor is just putting too many hats on too many hats.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 12:05:30


Post by: Mandragola


I do think there's a case for putting DCAs or arcos in a rhino or repressor. It may as well be with battle sisters for the cps I think. Note that actually only <order> infantry are allowed in a repressor. FW may FAQ that at some point.

Obviously you can just buy them their own transport if you like. You don't need the sisters.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 15:02:34


Post by: ncshooter426


Whats the verdict on doms w/ flamers in represors? I really have the urge to burninate all the things


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 15:12:24


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 ncshooter426 wrote:
Whats the verdict on doms w/ flamers in represors? I really have the urge to burninate all the things


They're amazing. Probably the definitive horde-buster I have seen so far. My wife brings two to every full-size game we play, and my Stealers, etc... live in fear of them.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 15:33:04


Post by: Retrogamer0001


Just checking out the prices for Sisters on GW's webstore...oh lordy, frikkin' insane. Hard to believe people are paying these prices!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 15:40:12


Post by: ncshooter426


 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Just checking out the prices for Sisters on GW's webstore...oh lordy, frikkin' insane. Hard to believe people are paying these prices!


Cruise minimarket/dakka/bartertown. They will pop up.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 15:50:15


Post by: Twoshoes23


Im waiting to run my 4x heavy flamer retributors, supieror w/ combi weapon of choice, inferno pistol cannoness 3 arco flaggelents, priest repressor of pain.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 16:10:34


Post by: RabbitMaster


Mandragola wrote:
I do think there's a case for putting DCAs or arcos in a rhino or repressor. It may as well be with battle sisters for the cps I think. Note that actually only <order> infantry are allowed in a repressor. FW may FAQ that at some point.

Obviously you can just buy them their own transport if you like. You don't need the sisters.

Arcos and Deathcult are actually pretty good in a rhino. I routinely play a squad of 9-10 and they always had good results so far.
One nice trick is to have Celestine (or an imagifier) hanging around the rhino so you can move it with AoF, then disembark and charge. It gives them the reach they need if the enemy is not coming your way.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 17:14:43


Post by: ncshooter426


So yeaahhh... aside from the cheeky cannoness+imagifier trick on exorsist shots, I can't really convince myself to take them. I keep eyeballing my fliers (which are doing *EPIC* on dark eldar) and thinking that is the way to go.

- Avenger - seems kinda meh right now...maybe I'm missing it, but it doesn't feel right.

- Lightning - still one of my fav models, but it feels a little out of place for the same reason the avenger does - the lack of heavy negation rule. Not bad, but I think it's outshined by marine fliers

- Xiphon appears to be a solid anti tank choice with a bit of anti-
infantry thrown it. Plays similar to the Razorwing fighters

- Vendetta - I guess tripple darklance -er, lascanons work.

- Vulture - LOL infantry splatter. It's an A10 in 40K, I love it.

- Fire Raptor -- bringing the dakka to your doortstep!


I'm thinking the twin Xiphons @ 22 PP is more reliable than the 2 Exorcists at 24 (for them + support)


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 17:32:58


Post by: Engio


9 arcos in a rhino with a priest is baller against proper targets. It's ~54 attacks from the arco's with that buff and 20 wounds for ~165 points (excluding the rhino).

 ncshooter426 wrote:
So yeaahhh... aside from the cheeky cannoness+imagifier trick on exorsist shots, I can't really convince myself to take them. I keep eyeballing my fliers (which are doing *EPIC* on dark eldar) and thinking that is the way to go.

...

I'm thinking the twin Xiphons @ 22 PP is more reliable than the 2 Exorcists at 24 (for them + support)


I like to use LSM flyers. Stormtalons and the Stormraven are both phenomenal. The exorcist isn't worth its own points and I think babysitting it with an imagifier or celestine is a waste. People might call it cheesy but for vehicle based AV you really are better off just taking advantage of imperial soup.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 17:42:27


Post by: ncshooter426


Engio wrote:
9 arcos in a rhino with a priest is baller against proper targets. It's ~54 attacks from the arco's with that buff and 20 wounds for ~165 points (excluding the rhino).

 ncshooter426 wrote:
So yeaahhh... aside from the cheeky cannoness+imagifier trick on exorsist shots, I can't really convince myself to take them. I keep eyeballing my fliers (which are doing *EPIC* on dark eldar) and thinking that is the way to go.

...

I'm thinking the twin Xiphons @ 22 PP is more reliable than the 2 Exorcists at 24 (for them + support)


I like to use LSM flyers. Stormtalons and the Stormraven are both phenomenal. The exorcist isn't worth its own points and I don't think babysitting it with an imagifier or celestine is a waste. People might call it cheesy but for vehicle based AV you really are better off just taking advantage of imperial soup.


I can technically cram 1 Avenger and 2 Xiphon in my list by taking the air wing detachment. A pure balls-out speed force...kinda like my Drukhari LOL


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 20:04:56


Post by: Mavnas


 pretre wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
I've been using AoF to repair tanks.

Spirit heals 1d3 to a unit, doesn't specify infantry.

Granted, I'm in the Imagifers and Celestine works on anything sisters camp, so grain of salt I guess?

That does bring up a good point though. Why would you ever take a Hospitaller?
A Hospitaller restores wounds within 3" to infantry on a 4+
An imagifer can restore wounds to any Order unit on a 4+ and if you don't want to do that, can trigger other acts of faith.
For 10 points, you get a lot more utility.


The only situation that is better is if you want to heal a unit quicker, or you need that unit to keep firing twice with AoFs but still want to heal it. You could also raise Celestine back up with an AoF then heal her for d3. (Or actually, I just realized if Celestine and both geminae are dead the first time, you could raise her up near a hospitaller and give her a 50/50 chance of getting both geminae back next turn.)

On the other hand, this all does seem situational.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/01 20:19:59


Post by: pretre


Yeah, it just seems like the tactical flexibility of the Imagifer is just better.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 03:00:58


Post by: MacPhail


I just noticed that the Immolator doesn't come with a Storm Bolter, and the unit description says we can add one. Between the lines, I read "only one" which means the cool double Storm Bolter loadout is a Rhino only thing. Am I right on this?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 03:17:55


Post by: pretre


 MacPhail wrote:
I just noticed that the Immolator doesn't come with a Storm Bolter, and the unit description says we can add one. Between the lines, I read "only one" which means the cool double Storm Bolter loadout is a Rhino only thing. Am I right on this?

Repressor can do double SB as well, but yes.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 13:00:13


Post by: Voldrak


Looking forward to a 2500 points game now. That used to be my prefered point level in 7th.

Attempting to do a brigade and fit as many immolators since you can get one for every other choices selected in the army.


Came up with this list where everything is barebone.

Canoness x 3

Battle Sisters x 6

Dialogus x 3

Dominions x 3

Retributors x 3

Immolators x 17

Not sure how competitve it would be, but I sure am looking forward to seeing my opponent's face once you drop 17 Immolators on the table.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 16:46:18


Post by: BlackTalos


 Mr Morden wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 deviantduck wrote:
 Hoitash wrote:
On the subject of Forgeworld: are Avenger Strike Fighters still a thing we can take? It's taking me forever to finish painting mine and I'm just curious if there's a point (I'll still finish it of course but figured I'd ask.)


Dragging back an old subject, possibly, but these rules are out:
Faction Keywords seem to be: Imperium, Astra Militarum, Aeronautica Imperialis.

Been out of the hobby / loop for too long, but how did we ever get this plane into our Lists in the past?

I vaguely remember some wording in the FW book that they could be Adepta Sororitas Heavy supports, but i've now come to doubt myself as i did not have that book?


You just add it as a Flyer choice as both AS and AA are Imperium Keywords. It just won't receive any bonuses from anything that enhances "Adepta Sororitas" units but that's the only issue.


Yeah, but that's kind of how it always was, though right?

The Avenger never had a Shield of Faith or other Sister-related upgrades?
The "inspiring Markings" or the correct name of that item, was something that a lot of Astra Militarum units could have.

So using one in our lists now is pretty much the same as it used to be.
Question is: is it any good now?
It seemed rather decent to me, especially since now you can shoot all of the weapons, and Hellfury Missiles are no longer single-shot


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 17:43:19


Post by: pretre


Page 96 – Celestine
Add the following to the end of the unit description:
‘Only one of this unit may be included in your army.’
Change the first sentence of the Saintly Blessings ability
to read:
‘At the start of each of your turns, you can pick a
friendly Adepta Sororitas unit within 6" of Celestine
that has the Acts of Faith ability and perform an Act of
Faith with it.’
Page 98 – Imagifier, Simulacrum Imperialis
Change the first sentence of this ability to read:
‘Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns; on a 4+ you
can pick a friendly <Order> unit within 6" of this model
that has the Acts of Faith ability and perform an Act of
Faith with it.’

Pages 99 and 157 – Hand flamer
Change the Type to read ‘Pistol D3’.
Page 99 – Battle Sisters Squad, Wargear Options
Add the following wargear option:
‘• The Sister Superior may take a weapon from the Melee
Weapons list.’
Page 100 – Celestian Squad, Wargear Options
Add the following wargear option:
‘• The Celestian Superior may take a weapon from the
Melee Weapons list.’
Page 101 – Retributor Squad
Change the Retributor Superior’s Leadership
characteristic to read ‘8’.

Page 101 – Retributor Squad, Wargear Options
Add the following wargear option:
‘• The Retributor Superior may take a weapon from the
Melee Weapons list.’
Page 102 – Dominion Squad, Wargear Options
Add the following wargear option:
‘• The Dominion Superior may take a weapon from the
Melee Weapons list.’
Page 102 – Dominion Squad, Vanguard
Add the following sentence in between the first and
second sentences of this ability:
‘This unit cannot end this move within 9" of any
enemy models.’


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nerfs to Doms, Faith and Hand Flamers. Lame.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 17:55:50


Post by: Fafnir


I was already not feeling flamer weapons to begin with (heavy flamers aren't entirely terrible, I guess), but Seraphim hand flamers just went from being passable to being hot garbage.

Also a real shame that we saw no adjustment to the armoury values too.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 18:12:57


Post by: MacPhail


Crap. Should've seen it coming. So are Seraphim still viable on their own, as a buffed bodyguard for Celestine, or not at all?

Vanguard change doesn't bother me too much. The nerf to AoFs makes sense, but doesn't seem necessary. They obviously did want Celestine's to be better and the Imagifier's to be worse... they had achieved that RAW and could easily left it alone.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 18:26:20


Post by: Melissia


Yeah, I'm seeing more and more reason to just have seraphim have two bolt pistols and spend your points on something else.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 18:33:09


Post by: Engio


Seraphim are dirt cheap deep strikers (not as good as tempestus scions, but we can't all border on cheese). And they have that nifty ability to shoot into a melee because of their pistols. They aren't mindblowing but they are nice to have as a min squad of fast deepstriking bros.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 18:33:54


Post by: Melissia


Sisters you mean. Not bros.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 18:49:37


Post by: pretre


Engio wrote:
Seraphim are dirt cheap deep strikers (not as good as tempestus scions, but we can't all border on cheese). And they have that nifty ability to shoot into a melee because of their pistols. They aren't mindblowing but they are nice to have as a min squad of fast deepstriking bros.

Yeah, I'm thinking 5 girls (55) plus Power Sword (to add to that Bolt Pistol action) is a good deal at 59 points. Fast linebreaker, if nothing else and dirt cheap.

If you're really feeling saucy, add a PP for 7 points.

Still good, but the lack of HF is just annoying. The HF were pretty okay before and now I just won't take them.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 18:58:09


Post by: Fafnir


I'm very glad that I didn't buy or begin converting some Seraphim. I like the idea of the unit, and had been playing with the idea for a bit, but they're garbage now, not even worth considering.

You can try to shoe-horn them into a list, but why wouldn't you just take more Dominions?


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 19:00:58


Post by: Dionysodorus


Really? I mean, yeah, the hand flamers were really good, but you couldn't even use them after deep striking. They're still hugely better than Assault Marines, being cheaper than even regular tactical marines and having a rerollable 6++. I actually even like the inferno pistol option since you can use an Act to move them 24" to get in range.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 19:11:23


Post by: Fafnir


Between their two close range pistols, I'd rather just deploy them normally and faith them forward regardless. But now those twin hand flamers are even less effective than a single normal one, and those weren't actually good to begin with.

Inferno pistols are pretty much entirely outclassed by Dominions as turn 1 blitzers, who can get up that table pretty much just as fast on turn one while being able to pack enough firepower to actually be able to reliably put down a threat.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 19:12:59


Post by: pretre


 Fafnir wrote:
Between their two close range pistols, I'd rather just deploy them normally and faith them forward regardless. But now those twin hand flamers are even less effective than a single normal one, and those weren't actually good to begin with.

Inferno pistols are pretty much entirely outclassed by Dominions as turn 1 blitzers, who can get up that table pretty much just as fast on turn one while being able to pack enough firepower to actually be able to reliably put down a threat.

Agreed. I wasn't planning on DS'ing the HF Seraphim.

Now they are just super cheap for what they do and probably ignored in favor of other stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, this forced me to change my list since it was illegal with the change to MT Command Squads. I ended up dropping the Hand Flamers as well and moving to a Battalion:

7 Command Points at 1500

Battalion Detachment -
HQ - Canoness with Eviscerator/BP - 67
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB  - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB  - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB  - 85
Troop - 32 Conscripts - 102
Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma - 59
Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma - 59
Elite - 4 Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma - 64
Elite - Commissar with BP/CS - 31

Outrider Detachment
HQ - St C&1G - 200
Elite - Imagifer - 40
Elite - Imagifer - 40
Fast - 5 Seraphim, Power Sword/BP- 59
Fast - 5 Seraphim, Power Sword/BP- 59
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 133
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 5 Doms with 3 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 116
DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92



Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 19:20:49


Post by: Dionysodorus


 Fafnir wrote:
Between their two close range pistols, I'd rather just deploy them normally and faith them forward regardless. But now those twin hand flamers are even less effective than a single normal one, and those weren't actually good to begin with.

Inferno pistols are pretty much entirely outclassed by Dominions as turn 1 blitzers, who can get up that table pretty much just as fast on turn one while being able to pack enough firepower to actually be able to reliably put down a threat.

I think I'm missing something -- I've been toying with a Seraphim unit in a Guard list, but I don't really play Sisters. A 5-woman Dominion squad with 4 meltas is more expensive than Seraphim with 4 inferno pistols, and the Seraphim still have 6 bolt pistols, are faster, and are more durable. The Dominion squad has 6" more range but the Seraphim move 6" further. I can see how if you're very likely to go first there are going to be occasions where you can have the Dominions start in a transport which scout moves forward into range where they can use their Act to shoot (can a unit use an Act inside a transport?). And even if you can't shoot with your Act you have a longer threat range with a transport. But of course if you don't get first turn then this doesn't work.

You can give the Dominion sergeant a better weapon than the Seraphim one, but you're getting about the same per point and now the Dominions can't lose a single model or they lose significant firepower, whereas the Seraphim have a buffer of 3.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 19:41:39


Post by: BlackTalos


 pretre wrote:

Change the first sentence of the Saintly Blessings ability
to read:
‘that has the Acts of Faith ability and perform an Act of
Faith with it.’
Page 98 – Imagifier, Simulacrum Imperialis
Change the first sentence of this ability to read:
‘that has the Acts of Faith ability'.


So, who's still playing exorcists?

They still get the canoness buff but that's about it... no more double shooting for them.

Quite a big Nerf for sisters this FAQ!


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 19:58:38


Post by: Drider


@Dionysodorus One of the primary reasons you'd take dominions is to vanguard an immolator or repressor.


Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica @ 2017/07/02 19:59:42


Post by: pretre


 BlackTalos wrote:
So, who's still playing exorcists?

They still get the canoness buff but that's about it... no more double shooting for them.

Quite a big Nerf for sisters this FAQ!

Yeah, exorcists were pretty okay with Imagifers and Canoness. Now? I don't know if they'll ever see the table.