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Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/02 21:46:48


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Hello, I've been posting a lot of my Battle Reports on here and getting good feedback, thanks to everyone who has checked out my stuff and dropped by with a comment. Typically I get 1-2 games in per week and do Battle Reports for each one, because of that I thought I'd make a thread and catalog all my games. This way I can keep everything in one place and pollute the Forums a bit less.

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Format: Written Battle Reports on a Semi-Weekly Basis
Game Type: Warhammer 40K Kill Teams Matched Play
Armies: Undecided
Focus: Mid-High Level Competitive Play
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Please feel free to comment, let me know if I screwed something up, what you like/dislike, and so on. I do this because it's a way for me to improve at the game and people seem to enjoy the content so thanks to everyone that takes a peek!

Episode 83: The Big FAQ 2 (and Kill Teams FAQ) Breakdown | My Retirement from Competitive Warhammer 40K
Episode 82: Decisions Are Being Made (Kill Teams - Heretic Astartes vs Thousand Sons)
Episode 81: Is it November Yet? [Tournament Report - Pictures/Detail Light]
Episode 80: See That Knight? Imma Kick It (Imperium vs. Imperium)
Episode 79: Yay More Tournaments! (Abridged Reports and Meta Discussion)
Episode 78: The Hero Dies In This One
Episode 77: Beep Boop
Episode 76: Tournament Games Lead to the Best Conclusions
Episode 75: Riptides are F****** Broken [Not As Many Pictures As Normal]
Episode 74: You Know What's Fun to Play Against? Anything but Space Marines
Episode 73: Friendship with Chaos Ended, Now Imperium Is My New Friend
Episode 72: Oh Yeah, I Play In Tournaments Sometimes
Episode 71: He's FULL of Black Rage...FULL.
Episode 70: Two Reports For the Price of Five (No Pictures)
Episode 69: Plagueburst Crawlers Make 40K a Worse Game [Not A Battle Report]
Episode 68: Is It March Yet? Let Me Know When It's March (Chaos vs. Tyranids) - NEWEST 2/4/18
Episode 67: A Change of Pace (Chaos vs. Eldar)
Episode 66: A Re-Rack in 40K? Well.....Alright! (Chaos vs. Ultramarines)
Episode 65: Dawn of a New Day (Chaos vs. Salamanders)
Episode 64: More Tournaments? Why Not? (3 Round RTT Tournament)
Episode 63: Another Day At The Office (3 Round RTT Report)
Battle Report Catchup and Some Upcoming Content
40K in 30ish Minutes Episode 62: Obliterators Are Indeed a Verb
40K in 30ish Minutes Episode 61: Where Were You When The Malefic Lord Died?
40K in 30ish Minutes Episode 60: Chaos Vs. The World (Warhammer Grand Tournament Report)
40K in 30 Minutes (Or Less!) Episode 59: Who's The Real Swarm? (Chaos vs. Tyranids)
Episode 58: More Tournament Testery (Chaos Space Marines vs. Salamanders 2000 Points)
Episode 57: Video Killed the Radio Star (Orks vs. Ravenguard 2000 Points)
Episode 56: TOURNAMENT TIME (Chaos vs. The World) [Audio Only, Slightly Rambly]
Episode 55: Tournaments They Are A Coming (Chaos vs. Ultramarines 2000 Points) [Tournament Prep - Gross List]
Episode 53: The Testing Before the Storm (Chaos vs. Sisters of Battle) [Tournament Testing - Gross List]
Episode 51: Super Best Friends! (Chaos vs. Space Wolves 2000 Points)
Episode 50: Well That Was Tilting (Chaos vs. Death Korps 2000 Points)
Episode 49: Kind of a Battle Report But Mostly Me Talking About My Cool Army List (Chaos vs. Nurgle Demons 2000 Points)
Episode 48: Sometimes You Get Got (Tau vs. Raven Guard 2000 Points)
Episode 47: And Now For Something Completely Different (Orks vs. Ultramarines 2000 Points)
Episode 46: This Seems Familiar (Orks vs. Death Guard 2000 Points)
Episode 45: Green Skins vs. The World (Orks vs. Tournament 2000 Points)
Episode 44: It's Like Deja Vu All Over Again (Orks vs. Salamanders 2000 Points)
Episode 43: Don't Call It a Comeback... (Orks vs. Salamanders 2000 Points)
Episode 40: Give Me Somethin' To Shoot (Tau vs. Chaos 2000 Points)
Episode 39: Let's Have a Talk (Orks vs. Imperial Guard 1500 Points) [League Game]
Episode 38: So THAT'S Why People Hate Tau (Tau vs Death Guard 2000 Points)
Episode 37: Shooting Is Pretty Fun! (Tau vs. Tyranids 1500 Points) [League Game]
Episode 36: We're Not So Different...You and I (Orks vs. Dark Eldar 1000 Points) [League Game]
Episode 35: I Wouldn't Advise Touching That... (Orks vs. Death Guard 2000 Points)
Episode 34: A Tale of Dice and Bugs (Orks vs. Tyranids 1000 Points) [League Game/No Commentary]
Episode 33: Slap Fight! (Orks vs. Chaos 2000 Points)
Episode 32: The Dark Re-Vengeance (Orks vs. Dark Angels 2000 Points)
Episode 31: A Series of Very Unfortunate Events (Tau vs Tyranids 2000 Points)
Episode 30: No Pictures, Some Text (Orks vs. Imperium 2000 Points) [No Pictures, Super Rambly]
Episode 29: The Red Games Go Faster (Orks vs. Dark Eldar 2000 Points)
Episode 28: All Your Tomb Worlds Are Belong To Da Boyz (Orks vs. Necrons 2000 Points)
Episode 27: The Classic (Orks vs. Dark Angels 2000 Points)
Episode 26: The Mummies Return (Orks vs. Necrons 1000 Points)
Episode 25: Roaches Check In...But They Don't Check Out (Orks vs. Tyranids 1000 Points)
Episode 24: In the Future, Orks Don't Suck in Combat! (Orks vs Orks 1000pts)


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/03 16:30:20


Post by: Funzeez


Thanks for the consolidation of the battle reports. Always a good read! I'm going to have to try the warboss on bikes,


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/04 14:15:49


Post by: iGuy91


Episode 28...ouch...that was painful to watch. Necrons really can't do anything about lists like that unless they list build to counter them.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/04 17:46:20


Post by: jy2


Good choice. You should also put a link to this thread in your Signature. That's what I did with my reports.



Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/05 22:52:51


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Updated with two new games over the Fourth of July "weekend", Orks versus both Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines. I hope you enjoy.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/06 12:54:21


Post by: gungo


 jy2 wrote:
Good choice. You should also put a link to this thread in your Signature. That's what I did with my reports.

and when can we expect your reports. They were awesome.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/06 16:00:58


Post by: jy2


gungo wrote:
 jy2 wrote:
Good choice. You should also put a link to this thread in your Signature. That's what I did with my reports.

and when can we expect your reports. They were awesome.

I've got 2 new batreps out already. They should both still be on p.1 of the Battle Reports thread currently.



Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/06 16:05:52


Post by: Gorfang


How do you do your movement trays? They seem essential with your army and it's looking (at least until the Ork Codex comes out) as if horde orks is the optimal line so far.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/06 16:14:53


Post by: jy2


Gorfang wrote:
How do you do your movement trays? They seem essential with your army and it's looking (at least until the Ork Codex comes out) as if horde orks is the optimal line so far.

Psst.....I'll let you in on a little secret.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Movement-Trays-for-Infantry-25mm-Bases-LOTR-HOBBIT-Warhammer-/322554857470?epid=548056182&hash=item4b19c487fe:g:ZukAAOSwVJhZQZti



Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/06 21:02:18


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I just bought the trays from a random retailer I found online but a bunch of places sell them. I just went with the cheapest I could find that would be a good material. Plastic doesn't do as well here....


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/06 22:39:56


Post by: jy2


The orks are formidable indeed. I hope to get some practice against them one of these days. I've got a very good Ork player in my area who always does well in the ITC.

How long does it normally take for you to finish your game with your horde orks? Can you reasonably finish a game (or get to Turn 4 at least ) in about 2 hours? The reason I am asking is because I plan on running a horde list myself but in my practice game, it took a while.



Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/07 00:13:48


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 jy2 wrote:
The orks are formidable indeed. I hope to get some practice against them one of these days. I've got a very good Ork player in my area who always does well in the ITC.

How long does it normally take for you to finish your game with your horde orks? Can you reasonably finish a game (or get to Turn 4 at least ) in about 2 hours? The reason I am asking is because I plan on running a horde list myself but in my practice game, it took a while.



I haven't timed myself much yet, I typically play casual games with a lot of chit chat and all that. I'm also someone who knows the rules pretty well, in my area, so I get asked a lot/have to explain a lot since it's still early days. But I have been finishing games, in total, in abour 3 hours and that includes unpacking my army which takes forever. In a more competitive environment I think this would go a bit faster since I'd likely be losing more models to more stronger armies. The trays do help a lot as the first two Turns are the slowest part of the game. Ork Hordes seem to play much faster than say an IG Horde because I just Advance in the early game and then Combats get very bloody.

I'm confident I could take the army to an event with 2 1/2 or 3 hour rounds.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/15 09:35:12


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Updated with a game vs. Death Guard, quite a popular faction in my area. Ended up being a bit of a surprising game but I did have a lot to say about it. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/15 20:39:48


Post by: stratigo


I am theory crafting how my standard TAC list fair against this. From experience, I can kill roughly 30 boys a turn, but man that is a lot of boyz and even if I chunk through them, your still pooping smites out all over me


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/16 04:10:25


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Yup that's kind of the one thing Orks have. It won't be enough long term but it is a solid gimmick. Orks do a lot in the list building phase which can be good or bad depending on your preference.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/16 08:09:57


Post by: stratigo


it's the smites that get me, like, I can maybe manage 180 orks, but 180 orks plus like one turn of 21 mortal wounds? Nah, I'm screwed.

Albeit, I mean, I could make an obvious counter army that would kill around 60ish orks a turn, but I don't own that many razorbacks or missile launchers. XD


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/16 16:23:01


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Just spam Storm Ravens, it beats pretty much everything else while you're at it!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/16 23:17:09


Post by: stratigo


XD I don't find the idea of 4 to 6 storm ravens to be any fun. The guilliman razorback list is top competetive, fluffy, and I'd imagine fun to play.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/16 23:53:31


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I'd say they're both not fluffy at all and boring to play but that's my sensibilities. No arguing with their effectiveness though and I've never considered theme when going for pure competition. Fun to play does help though, otherwise games can be a grind.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/18 07:58:15


Post by: stratigo


Space marines have never been shown to rely on heavy air support, but there are plenty of instances of a firing line. I mean, what is more thematic in 40k than a horde of orks rushing an entrenched marine line through a rain of fire?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/19 08:17:19


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Updated with a game with my Slow Grow League versus Dark Eldar, ended up being a very fun game with a nice opponent. Went a bit more in-depth on my post-game thoughts per his request.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/20 09:05:21


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another slow grow game, this time with Tau. The Tyranid players in my meta never end!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/23 07:51:44


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another game with Tau, really liking them. Likely that my build will be taken away by comp within a month or so but oh well, good positioning practice for the time being. Post-Game is a bit all over the place. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/23 08:07:21


Post by: Razerous


Excellent battle reports!

OP exalted


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/07/28 07:48:39


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another Ork game, going to be slightly switching things up for my "videos" based on some things in the games. Let me know if you like it. Or if you don't care that's cool too.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/05 06:15:19


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Got in a Tournament Prep game against Chaos / Nurgle, as well as a bonus Battle Report in the Post-Game video for those interested.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/06 20:29:18


Post by: Razerous


Why shield drones over gun drones?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/06 20:37:55


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Razerous wrote:
Why shield drones over gun drones?


After the newest FAQ they have a 5+ FNP, this makes them hilariously resilient. They can either tank Charges, much like Gun Drones could before, or they can hangout in the back of the Commanders as you put Lascannon shots onto them which they only have to make 1 FNP roll for. They're also significantly harder to remove for all guns than Gun Drones, which is great for blocking Charges. Small arms fire is almost as effective as it would be against other Drones, but you do get the 5+ FNP on top.

Basically it almost ensures my Commanders will be safe, so I get two turns of them firing at nearly full strength. And that's enough to devastate most armies.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/26 09:35:21


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Back with two games against Salamanders. Different players oddly enough. I know it's been awhile and I missed some games that I only did written reports without pictures for, if you're interested they're on the blog.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/28 09:54:57


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Local RTT Report up, took Orks after doing a lot of theorycrafting and getting reps in. See how it went. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/28 16:22:15


Post by: JohnU


Nice work. Maelstrom really does make a big difference.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/30 08:37:17


Post by: stratigo


that 2 hour limit bothers me.

Big army that goes slow and gets points early until they are thinned out? Doesn't seem fair to play against in a tournament setting when the game gets cut off on turn 3


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/30 13:31:09


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
that 2 hour limit bothers me.

Big army that goes slow and gets points early until they are thinned out? Doesn't seem fair to play against in a tournament setting when the game gets cut off on turn 3


I can see that, I would have played them regardless of time limit. I was certainly hustling to get through my turns, as I said I think with some better terrain on some tables I'd have been able to squeeze another in for both my and my opponent. First time I've heard of a big army being unfair though.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/30 22:01:27


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
stratigo wrote:
that 2 hour limit bothers me.

Big army that goes slow and gets points early until they are thinned out? Doesn't seem fair to play against in a tournament setting when the game gets cut off on turn 3


I can see that, I would have played them regardless of time limit. I was certainly hustling to get through my turns, as I said I think with some better terrain on some tables I'd have been able to squeeze another in for both my and my opponent. First time I've heard of a big army being unfair though.


Yeah I'm not blaming you. It's just a bummer. And I guarantee some people are looking to abuse this.

Tournies should probably have turn clocks.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/30 22:19:45


Post by: pismakron


So, do you think that the seven weirdboys was worth it, or would another 60 shoota-boyz have been just as good?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/08/30 22:41:56


Post by: The Prince of Excess


@stratigo | 40K needs to embrace that it's 2017 and use Death Clock like Warmachine does. Literally no excuse not to, tired of hearing whining about how devices might die. Almost every game has two smart phones between players and maybe laptops/tablets in addition. It's a superior system for the player, full stop.

@pismakron | Yes, I would have had a very tough road without them. Smite Spam works very well with Orks and when we get a Codex the expanded powers might make them better. They're the only realistic answer Orks have to big targets other than Tankbustas in a Squiggoth which I do not favor.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/05 07:18:30


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Update with a Casual Game against Death Guard. Certainly some things to be learned if you're new to ITC Missions. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/05 10:04:09


Post by: AaronWilson


Episode 46.. That Ork list was mega gross.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Casual game" Takes THE ork list?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/05 12:35:57


Post by: Cult of My Boy Blue


Love the write ups on your games! You give great insight on why you do things and what you see your opponent doing which makes for very great reading!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/05 17:07:37


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 AaronWilson wrote:
Episode 46.. That Ork list was mega gross.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Casual game" Takes THE ork list?


If you think that's mega gross I'd advise you don't look at tournament results, not for the faint of heart.

Yes, it is my tournament list but unfortunately I don't tend to buy much outside of what I want to take for tournament purposes. Also I have some transport issues which I'm trying to rectify, then I could also bring along some of my more fun pieces. But for casual I more meant tone, as I said I did some things I wouldn't usually do just in the spirit of fun. :]


@Cult of My Boy Blue - Thanks for the feedback, I try to walk through what I was thinking at the time and mix that with a nice dose of hindsight.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/06 12:25:32


Post by: AaronWilson


Oh I know Orks aren't doing well AT ALL in the scheme of things, the Ork list you play is THE ork list. Green Tide backed by KMK / Weirdboys.

I felt sorry for your opponent on reading the lists


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/13 01:44:36


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Got a game against Ultramarines with a very...unique Ork list. Post-game video goes more in depth on the list and where I'd like to take it moving forward.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/13 13:13:42


Post by: Cult of My Boy Blue


Interesting you went the giant squiggith route as I read your thoughts on using them or not and then ba'am you run two! Do you have any unique ideas for your tau list as well? Nice write up and it is always good to see girlyman die!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/13 13:32:45


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Interesting you went the giant squiggith route as I read your thoughts on using them or not and then ba'am you run two! Do you have any unique ideas for your tau list as well? Nice write up and it is always good to see girlyman die!


My thoughts on them still pretty much stand, their shooting is bad for a few reasons and they don't live forever. But right now Orks only have so many options and if you need to do something besides Green Tide, Squigs are the way to go.

Unfortunately my Tau list is Commander Spam, I have tried to look over that book and find something else but Tau is a wasteland right now. To say I'm looking forward to Chapter Approved would be an understatement.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/15 08:19:01


Post by: The Prince of Excess


New game with Tau against Raven Guard. Very one-sided as full disclosure but a lot of things to be learned about how to face Commander Spam and improving your game overall.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/16 00:14:54


Post by: stratigo


I did manage to just beat a green tide list in my own league tournament. Main difference is he prefers choppas and he took tankbusta truks in place of more wierdboyz (he had 2)


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/16 00:28:37


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
I did manage to just beat a green tide list in my own league tournament. Main difference is he prefers choppas and he took tankbusta truks in place of more wierdboyz (he had 2)


I'm likely to move towards a Choppa/Shoota mix in each unit except one in my Green Tide games. Let's me pull casualties based on what I'm up against, for example Choppa Boyz are great against MEQ but Shootas are great against T3 armies. Tankbustas are great though, just not loving the Trukks. :[


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/16 10:15:17


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
stratigo wrote:
I did manage to just beat a green tide list in my own league tournament. Main difference is he prefers choppas and he took tankbusta truks in place of more wierdboyz (he had 2)


I'm likely to move towards a Choppa/Shoota mix in each unit except one in my Green Tide games. Let's me pull casualties based on what I'm up against, for example Choppa Boyz are great against MEQ but Shootas are great against T3 armies. Tankbustas are great though, just not loving the Trukks. :[


Tankbustas were a dead weight against my style of army, which was mostly on foot with only a couple rhinos. The wierdboyz would 100 percent had a better time of it. I mean, he blew up the rhinos eventually, but otherwise only killed a couple of other marines with rockets considering I nuked down the majority of one unit the first turn having run out of targets after killling off one jumping boyz unit through tacticals with flamers (we were using NOVA terrain. If you watched the warhammer TV NOVA coverage, that's the board we used. The actual board, the warhammer tv guys grabbed it from my local shop XD).

His first jumping boyz failed their charge and were nuked off the table before anyone else could get into my lines. two of my tacticals that were pushed up aggressively to flame the jumping boyz and were murdered, but were an easy sacrifice to make, another squad jumped in in support of them and made it in, but only killed a few hellblasters, and the rest of his boyz couldn't manage a charge. And then I just... shot them all down, and charged the last unit of boyz.

It really impressed upon me that missile launchers are great for take all comers lists. If I had equipped my two dev squads with lascannons, I would have been stuck, but between the frags, my devs killed 60 plus orks in two turns with Guilliman reroll support.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/16 16:10:31


Post by: Cult of My Boy Blue


So if you had to pick an army to run for competitiveness right now, which one would you choose? (Orcs or Tau) Do you feel that you should have some more marklight support?

On the orcs, which list do you think is more competitive right now? Giant squigs or weirdboys galore?

(sorry lots of questions)

Lastly, what do you consider hard counters to both armies you are playing currently?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/16 17:49:10


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
So if you had to pick an army to run for competitiveness right now, which one would you choose? (Orcs or Tau) Do you feel that you should have some more marklight support?

On the orcs, which list do you think is more competitive right now? Giant squigs or weirdboys galore?

(sorry lots of questions)

Lastly, what do you consider hard counters to both armies you are playing currently?


I don't mind the questions, all I can give are my opinions of course.

Right now it's close and unfortunately both armies keep getting worse as new books come out. Death Guard are a problem for Tau with their cannot be shot Strategem and buffs to the zombies. AdMech is also looking problematic for Orks unless Kastelen Robots got a decent price increase as that much S6 Shooting with re-rolls will kill entire units and can also drop a Gargantuan Squig in one turn with ease. For the moment I'd say Tau with a slight edge, then the Garg Squig list, then Green Tide. They're all pretty close when I examine my meta and I'd say the same order if I were to go to a big event.

I actually reworked my list to have more Markerlight support. The problem with Markerlights on regular guys is they hit on 5's which is a complete nightmare. I'd really like to see them moved to Assault Weapons on the Codex. Generally three a turn is plenty and they're only a must have when Overcharging, although they're of course nice to have all the time. The other issue with Pathfinders/Fire Warriors is they're just not at all resilient so the moment they pop their head out it's trivial to remove them. That's why I'm transitioning toward another Cadre Fireblade.

Hard Counters to both armies, well Imperial Soup shuts both down but that's the best list going and I'm playing Xenos armies without books. For Orks it's anything that can handle the skew I take, typically a Guilliman gunline can do that well but some of the other lists like Azrael and Dreadnoughts do the same thing. For Tau screens are essential, which are in vogue right now, as I have to chew through the screen and then take a punch. Commanders aren't that resilient if you can hit them with heavy weapons from multiple sources. Also Smite Spam hurts Tau badly so Malefic Lords and Primaris Psykers are bad news.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/19 13:43:50


Post by: Boss Salvage


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Got a game against Ultramarines with a very...unique Ork list.
Caught up on your reports yesterday, and this one was definitely my favorite. Partially because of Girlyman's fate, but I also find that squig list more interesting to read about than the Tide or CommanderSpam (in which cases I'll admit I'm mostly waiting for you to come up against something equally tuned to see how the lists really perform ).

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/19 14:05:00


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Got a game against Ultramarines with a very...unique Ork list.
Caught up on your reports yesterday, and this one was definitely my favorite. Partially because of Girlyman's fate, but I also find that squig list more interesting to read about than the Tide or CommanderSpam (in which cases I'll admit I'm mostly waiting for you to come up against something equally tuned to see how the lists really perform ).

- Salvage


Yeah unfortunately I'm one of the more competitively minded players in my state so finding even matches can be hard. That's why I tried to transition the Battle Reports towards more of what I think could be done against me should I lose as that might be more valuable/useful to people. I do like the Squiggoth list, just don't know if I want to buy a second Baneblade to flesh it out!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/19 22:55:36


Post by: pismakron


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
 Boss Salvage wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Got a game against Ultramarines with a very...unique Ork list.
Caught up on your reports yesterday, and this one was definitely my favorite. Partially because of Girlyman's fate, but I also find that squig list more interesting to read about than the Tide or CommanderSpam (in which cases I'll admit I'm mostly waiting for you to come up against something equally tuned to see how the lists really perform ).

- Salvage


Yeah unfortunately I'm one of the more competitively minded players in my state so finding even matches can be hard. That's why I tried to transition the Battle Reports towards more of what I think could be done against me should I lose as that might be more valuable/useful to people. I do like the Squiggoth list, just don't know if I want to buy a second Baneblade to flesh it out!


Squiggoths are very easy to put together. You just need a toy dinosaur of appropriate size and some kind of container. And glue. Try out the regular squiggoths also. They are only T7 but they have the advantage of not needing to buy useless guns.

Personally I look forward to using the squigs with a raven guard/alpha legion style infiltrate stratagem, if we get one in the codex. I wonder what can be done about nerfing first turn advantage with such shenanigans in play.

I like the batreps. Regards


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/19 23:00:03


Post by: The Prince of Excess


pismakron wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
 Boss Salvage wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Got a game against Ultramarines with a very...unique Ork list.
Caught up on your reports yesterday, and this one was definitely my favorite. Partially because of Girlyman's fate, but I also find that squig list more interesting to read about than the Tide or CommanderSpam (in which cases I'll admit I'm mostly waiting for you to come up against something equally tuned to see how the lists really perform ).

- Salvage


Yeah unfortunately I'm one of the more competitively minded players in my state so finding even matches can be hard. That's why I tried to transition the Battle Reports towards more of what I think could be done against me should I lose as that might be more valuable/useful to people. I do like the Squiggoth list, just don't know if I want to buy a second Baneblade to flesh it out!


Squiggoths are very easy to put together. You just need a toy dinosaur of appropriate size and some kind of container. And glue. Try out the regular squiggoths also. They are only T7 but they have the advantage of not needing to buy useless guns.

Personally I look forward to using the squigs with a raven guard/alpha legion style infiltrate stratagem, if we get one in the codex. I wonder what can be done about nerfing first turn advantage with such shenanigans in play.

I like the batreps. Regards


Yes I've been told that but I think it looks horrible and kind of....goes against the spirit of the game. But that is a personal opinion only. I'd be surprised if Squiggoths got to sneak around though, but it would be hilarious.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/21 13:01:19


Post by: stratigo


your deathguard army makes me a bit sad. It's death guard led by magnus. That just feels gross to me. You could make a competitive list that doesn't tap dance over the fluff like that


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/21 19:49:49


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
your deathguard army makes me a bit sad. It's death guard led by magnus. That just feels gross to me. You could make a competitive list that doesn't tap dance over the fluff like that


The fluff isn't one of the reasons I care about or like the game so it's not important to me if it's honored or not. I know it is to some and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not on my list of things a list or army needs to have. For what it's worth the army will all be visually tied together, that is something I try to do because it's weird when nothing in an army matches. But that's of course all subjective.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/25 00:11:22


Post by: The Prince of Excess


New game against Death Korps, running my Chaos list against a very artillery heavy army. I also did a spoken word report that I did not update the thread for but it is on the list, Episode 49. I'm learning a lot about Chaos and it's fun to have an army that's very different from my Tau and Orks. Now I just need to get the models together.....


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/09/25 11:18:18


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
stratigo wrote:
your deathguard army makes me a bit sad. It's death guard led by magnus. That just feels gross to me. You could make a competitive list that doesn't tap dance over the fluff like that


The fluff isn't one of the reasons I care about or like the game so it's not important to me if it's honored or not. I know it is to some and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not on my list of things a list or army needs to have. For what it's worth the army will all be visually tied together, that is something I try to do because it's weird when nothing in an army matches. But that's of course all subjective.


I never get people who disregard the fluff. It's not like 40k is the best balanced and most competitive wargame around. If you aren't into the setting, what draws you to 40k over it's competitors?

Albeit the new army is fine, i could see Magnus rocking support of abbadon.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/13 23:20:52


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Back from a bit of an absence with Chaos vs. Space Wolves. Ended up as a very enjoyable game and it's been fun to evolve my Chaos list.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/17 10:29:23


Post by: stratigo


*Checks the new game. Sees 7 malefic lords. Dies a little inside*

Malefic lord nerf cannot come soon enough!

That battle could not have gone any other way. If I were the SW player, I'd take a look at the list and hold out my hand. Small model count army against THAT many smites? There's just no way.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/17 23:49:20


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
*Checks the new game. Sees 7 malefic lords. Dies a little inside*

Malefic lord nerf cannot come soon enough!

That battle could not have gone any other way. If I were the SW player, I'd take a look at the list and hold out my hand. Small model count army against THAT many smites? There's just no way.


I mean I think it could have gone another way but some luck would be needed. Fliers are actually quite good against Smite Spam, it was the Cultists he couldn't chew through that were the problem. Storm Wolves just don't seem to have great armament. At least not for taking multiples, Heavy Bolters fall off so hard compared to Hurricane Bolters and HFCs are junk.

Total agreement about Malefic Lords though, they're the most broken model in the game pound for pound. There's some very large competitive events coming up in my area that I need to test for but I do look forward to not using them anymore.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/19 10:12:10


Post by: stratigo


That much smite power would seem, to me at least, easily capable of ripping a flyer out of the sky in a turn and then the demon primarchs are just all over it. And you can't even kite. You're not outrunning magnus or morty with a warptime on them.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/19 12:55:05


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
That much smite power would seem, to me at least, easily capable of ripping a flyer out of the sky in a turn and then the demon primarchs are just all over it. And you can't even kite. You're not outrunning magnus or morty with a warptime on them.


Yes all those things can certainly kill Fliers, no doubt. My guess is that they can kite unless I have a centered position but I'd have to put that on the table and check. With a lot of Fliers the turns could be tight so you might very well be right. Mostly I'd be worried about a bunch of Fliers just nuking my big guys, which is very possible.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/23 03:18:43


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another tournament testing game against Sisters of Battle. If you hate armies with Malefic Lords, I would recommend skipping the writeup. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/23 10:36:14


Post by: stratigo


XD why didn't the FAQ nerf malefic looooords!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/10/23 14:05:36


Post by: pismakron


stratigo wrote:
XD why didn't the FAQ nerf malefic looooords!


The Faq only made changes to Imperial Guard and GSC. Malefic Lords will get nerfed soon enough.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/03 07:37:02


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another game up versus a netdeck Ultramarines list for tournament prep this week. Didn't go quite how I expected, hopefully worth a read. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/05 18:03:14


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Went to the first of my three Tournaments and put up an audio only report. Unfortunately I wasn't able to snap any pictures which is something I will work on in the future.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/06 03:44:06


Post by: Zid


Great reports, yeah, a sound bite reports not exactly... entertaining. Look forward to more


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/13 00:32:05


Post by: pismakron


So, do you think your index Ork list could even make a dent in your chaos list? I don't see the obliterators being excellent against boy blobs, but fearless skaven-cultists is another matter entirely. Regards


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/13 00:37:27


Post by: The Prince of Excess


My actual competitive Ork list....maybe. It would depend on a lot of things but having a nearly equal amount of Deny the Witch to Smite for both is a big deal. Orks are also super good at the ITC Scenarios but the Chaos list is way more powerful. One of the reasons I think Obliterators are so good is they're actually fine against Hordes whereas Lascannons and such aren't. Four shots per guy, still can get re-rolls, 66% chance to Wound on 2's, they're also tough enough to speedbump smaller units. Cultists would get shot/stabbed up but do just as much damage back and Death Hex on an Ork unit makes them disappear.

I think Chaos wins most of the time but it's not as bad as many other armies and a lot of that is due to how I build my Orks. When they get a Codex I would be surprised if Orks aren't top tier, their stats are just insane for the cost and they're godly at Scenarios.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/15 00:54:48


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Making some changes to my reports! I'm going back to videos for a myriad of reasons and attempting to do all my content in 30 Minutes or less. Will I succeed? Does anyone care? All these questions and more will be answered.....


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/15 09:01:19


Post by: pismakron


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Making some changes to my reports! I'm going back to videos for a myriad of reasons and attempting to do all my content in 30 Minutes or less. Will I succeed? Does anyone care? All these questions and more will be answered.....


Great game against the Tyranids.

I like the widely spaced second line of horrors in your screen. They are an excellent way of eating the consolidate, should the first screen get charged. Or the pile-in, should the first screen be killed before all the stealers got to fight. I see too many put up a single screen with 3.1" of spacing behind it, thinking they are in the clear.

But don't you think the spacing on the first line of horrors was too wide? Is it not possible to charge the horrors and use any excess charge move to move behind the screen? I know the game never came to that, but still?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/15 13:25:58


Post by: The Prince of Excess


pismakron wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Making some changes to my reports! I'm going back to videos for a myriad of reasons and attempting to do all my content in 30 Minutes or less. Will I succeed? Does anyone care? All these questions and more will be answered.....


Great game against the Tyranids.

I like the widely spaced second line of horrors in your screen. They are an excellent way of eating the consolidate, should the first screen get charged. Or the pile-in, should the first screen be killed before all the stealers got to fight. I see too many put up a single screen with 3.1" of spacing behind it, thinking they are in the clear.

But don't you think the spacing on the first line of horrors was too wide? Is it not possible to charge the horrors and use any excess charge move to move behind the screen? I know the game never came to that, but still?


No you're totally right, the spacing was wide. I was trying to accomplish a lot with them, pushing Deep Strike back and covering the Flanks against the Hive Tyrants. Getting long charged by one of them into the Cultists would be equally disastrous so I felt I had to kind of go for everything but not do it all perfectly. I believe even with a Consolidate the Genestealers would not have made it to the Cultists but I'd have to go back and look.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/22 03:59:44


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Over the most recent weekend I attended my first GT ever for Warhammer 40K, which is weird considering how long I've been playing. Was an extremely fun and smooth event where I learned a lot. Frankly it revved up my engines for continuing to improve, it's nice to see how much better you can get. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/26 05:31:19


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Two new games up with lists in the post Malefic Lord world. Haters of Smite Spam rejoice!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/27 20:26:27


Post by: stratigo


Woo!!!

I must admit, I miss the text a lot. It made your reports. Accessible in the stolen minutes of the day between projects, out on lunch, or on the toilet even. Now they’re competing with all my leisure activities available from a computer, and are thus getting sort of relegated to super late night, and I fall asleep during them


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/27 21:07:28


Post by: Boss Salvage


stratigo wrote:
I must admit, I miss the text a lot. It made your reports.
Same, written reports especially for 40k are rare, and I do love me some written reports, particularly when I'm supposed to be working. On the flipside, there are a ton of 40k video reports, along with all that other YouTube content competing for my video time out of the office.

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/27 23:15:23


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
stratigo wrote:
I must admit, I miss the text a lot. It made your reports.
Same, written reports especially for 40k are rare, and I do love me some written reports, particularly when I'm supposed to be working. On the flipside, there are a ton of 40k video reports, along with all that other YouTube content competing for my video time out of the office.

- Salvage


I understand, very few written reports out there to be sure. I just don't think the format is very good for it but I'm certainly not the strongest writer out there either. I just do this for fun and to help myself get better, maybe to help others as well, and it's so much faster to do a video than to write everything up. Especially when you aren't the strongest writer.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/11/28 15:58:44


Post by: stratigo


it’s what you do for a hobby, so I’d never demand ya to spend your free time in any way, and I’ll still follow your stuff since I really enjoy your insights. With chapter approved coming, I might look to play 40k more often, I’ve been on a bit of a low burn since I feel like I know how a game will go the second I put my army onto the table, and have been actually playing age of Sigmar, which has a more competetive minded community in my local store


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/01 14:42:04


Post by: MaLiKAR


Just gonna (unfairly) jump on the bandwagon and share that I really miss the written reports. Used to follow them keenly.

Appreciate they might take a lot more time, so obviously grateful, and can’t demand otherwise, but thought you would want to know.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/01 19:07:44


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I actually did not expect to get any reaction to the format change. I'm going to consider doing one written report a week along with the videos since I have gotten those down and have a very quick turn around. I'll only do "good games" in a written format, I think those will make for a better read and give me more to talk about. It's difficult to write about one-sided games in a way that's entertaining.

Thank you to who of you who like my content. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/15 16:31:09


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I'm not dead! Posted a catchup with VERY brief Battle Reports and an explanation for a content slow down. I'm also taking suggestions for non-Battle Report content so if you care about the things I say....feel free to suggest something.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/18 01:53:37


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Updated with a Tournament Report, I only played 2 Rounds but it was fun. Lots of Deployment commentary and it's all in written format for the reading fans.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/18 10:08:03


Post by: pismakron


Nice write up. As you seem to enjoy your Obliterators, you should try to include som Kustom Mega Kannons in your Ork list. They are not very flexible, but at 42 points after CA they have pretty good damage output for their points. Better than Obliterators. Buggies are still pretty mediocre.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/18 14:42:07


Post by: The Prince of Excess


pismakron wrote:
Nice write up. As you seem to enjoy your Obliterators, you should try to include som Kustom Mega Kannons in your Ork list. They are not very flexible, but at 42 points after CA they have pretty good damage output for their points. Better than Obliterators. Buggies are still pretty mediocre.


How much were KMKs before? I remember their math being super mediocre at best. Also the not really being able to move and requiring LoS for something that's not durable makes me hesitent. I don't expect Buggies to do much shooting wise, I just wanted something to tie stuff up. Then I remembered they have the worst Outflank in the game and have to touch a table edge so that dream appears to be shattered.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/18 15:50:39


Post by: pismakron


KMKs were 48 points before, now they are 42. BS4+,D6 shots, S8, AP-3, DD3. They are T5, W6, Sv 5+. Their price includes 5 unarmed grots with the character rule, which means that they cannot easily be shot off of objectives.

Next time you play with your green tide, try and proxy 6-8 teacups as kmks. Regards


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/18 18:54:17


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I may play an Ork game this week just for fun and I may test them out. I'm aware of their stats it's just how static and vulnerable they are. T5 means the big guns are wounding on 3's, sometimes 2's, and 6 Wounds means 2-3 shots will take one down, usually without a Save of any kind. It could be a bit better with a KFF Mek. I'll probably go down to 2 Weirdboys with the Beta Rule change to Smite, I think Orks can still make it work since it's pretty easy to get a +4-6 bonus but it's probably no longer worth it. But part of me is having a really hard time caring about armies without Strategems, it's really the have and have nots right now. Orks didn't even get any good ones from Chapter Approved. *sigh*


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/18 19:42:10


Post by: Boss Salvage


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Updated with a Tournament Report, I only played 2 Rounds but it was fun. Lots of Deployment commentary and it's all in written format for the reading fans.
Yessssssss thanks for the write-ups Brutal Chaos list is still brutal, if not more so

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/27 23:32:50


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another Tournament roundup, unfortunately I didn't get to it until half a week later and I wasn't able to take as many pictures as I wanted. Just kind of a nice, high level Battle Report of my games.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/28 00:30:27


Post by: MaLiKAR


Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)



Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/28 01:24:04


Post by: The Prince of Excess


MaLiKAR wrote:
Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)


Glad you enjoyed it, I keep meaning to do both but I haven't gotten a decent non-Tournament game in weeks! Hopefully I can get one this week with the holiday.

I have not played against 35 Reapers, it would probably do very well against me. I think it has plenty of counters, it's hard to hide that many Reapers unless you're also taking Webway Strike or Wave Serpents but it would be a very powerful army. Reapers are probably.....a bit under-priced right now so I don't blame Eldar players for spamming them. The always hits on a 3+ is just such a powerful rule, there's not counter. They can even move if you play the LoS game, doesn't matter, and they synergize with all the best Eldar Psychic Powers. If I played Eldar I'd abuse the hell out of Wave Serpents and Dark Reapers, they have the best Transport in the game but I usually don't see more than two in a list.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/28 10:38:02


Post by: MaLiKAR


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
MaLiKAR wrote:
Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)


Glad you enjoyed it, I keep meaning to do both but I haven't gotten a decent non-Tournament game in weeks! Hopefully I can get one this week with the holiday.

I have not played against 35 Reapers, it would probably do very well against me. I think it has plenty of counters, it's hard to hide that many Reapers unless you're also taking Webway Strike or Wave Serpents but it would be a very powerful army. Reapers are probably.....a bit under-priced right now so I don't blame Eldar players for spamming them. The always hits on a 3+ is just such a powerful rule, there's not counter. They can even move if you play the LoS game, doesn't matter, and they synergize with all the best Eldar Psychic Powers. If I played Eldar I'd abuse the hell out of Wave Serpents and Dark Reapers, they have the best Transport in the game but I usually don't see more than two in a list.


Interesting. What makes you find the wave serpent so good?. Totally agree with its durability etc but not sure offensively it’s as efficient as other choices.

Interested on your thoughts regarding first turn. What is roughly the average number of drops you’re finding you’re up against in the more competitive games.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/28 18:27:31


Post by: The Prince of Excess


MaLiKAR wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
MaLiKAR wrote:
Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)


Glad you enjoyed it, I keep meaning to do both but I haven't gotten a decent non-Tournament game in weeks! Hopefully I can get one this week with the holiday.

I have not played against 35 Reapers, it would probably do very well against me. I think it has plenty of counters, it's hard to hide that many Reapers unless you're also taking Webway Strike or Wave Serpents but it would be a very powerful army. Reapers are probably.....a bit under-priced right now so I don't blame Eldar players for spamming them. The always hits on a 3+ is just such a powerful rule, there's not counter. They can even move if you play the LoS game, doesn't matter, and they synergize with all the best Eldar Psychic Powers. If I played Eldar I'd abuse the hell out of Wave Serpents and Dark Reapers, they have the best Transport in the game but I usually don't see more than two in a list.


Interesting. What makes you find the wave serpent so good?. Totally agree with its durability etc but not sure offensively it’s as efficient as other choices.

Interested on your thoughts regarding first turn. What is roughly the average number of drops you’re finding you’re up against in the more competitive games.


It's so good because of the durability. I'd never take a Transport for offense unless it's a pure gunboat i.e. pre-nerf Razorbacks. Wave Serpents are a pure transport, they can have guns and all kinds of upgrades but I find them pointless. Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Catapault, go go go. They chew up some Infantry but their real strength is denying the alpha, it is so hard to remove a Wave Serpent in one turn for some armies. It not being a gunboat also makes you not care when it takes damage, it can still tie things up in melee. It still has FLY so it can go over screens, it can Fall Back and shoot, and you can target Mortal Wounds onto things when it gets low or you feel like it. Wave Serpents are just insane in the things they can do for an army.

Number of drops varies widely. 12 seems to be the median, elite armies are usually in the 10 range and elite armies with Transports are in the 8 range. Mostly it depends on how good Characters are, Malefic Lords and Primaris Psykers being nerfed has dropped the average. The powerful meta armies are also Eldar, Chaos, and IG right now, IG has a ton of drops, Chaos is medium, and Eldar is medium to low.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2017/12/29 00:20:26


Post by: r_squared


Thoroughly enjoying your Batreps, great photos and write ups.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/08 14:53:38


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another game up after a bit of a dry spell, played against one of my more regular opponents and his Salamanders. Turned out to be a good learning game with some emphasis on early game mistakes, I'm also testing a list with some of the new Codex: Demons stuff.

I should have another game or two up within a few days as I'm helping a friend test for LVO and I may play in a GT this weekend, unfortunately I need two of the new Demon models which release on the same day.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/11 18:33:14


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Played not one but two games against Ultramarines this week as I'm testing a VERY different Chaos army and my buddy is preparing for LVO. I also have a few matches this weekend so the drought is over!

Please bear with me while I get some of these models and figure the list out, both of the recent games are HEAVILY proxied on my side.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/12 19:11:25


Post by: stratigo


Always have to root for the ultramarines whenever they come up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a note, outside of truly non statistical rolls, I don’t think your army can lose to a full space marine list honestly


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/12 20:37:51


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
Always have to root for the ultramarines whenever they come up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a note, outside of truly non statistical rolls, I don’t think your army can lose to a full space marine list honestly


It can but they have to be built well. I'm super advantaged though, it's probably 70-30 or 75-25. I'm working on another list that is probably 90-10 though, for Space Marines. Should have a Report up soon.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/14 10:58:21


Post by: stratigo


Space marines are simply a non competitive option at this point in my opinion. If you are trying to take a pure space marine list to a tourney, be prepared to lose.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/19 03:40:01


Post by: Primark G


I disagree with your sentiment. If you are having problems winning with them that does not equate to everyone else.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/19 07:56:26


Post by: stratigo


 Primark G wrote:
I disagree with your sentiment. If you are having problems winning with them that does not equate to everyone else.


I'm sure you do, but it's pretty well established that you have little clue what you are talking about, and indeed it's also clear that the primary reason you even posted here is that I hurt your feelings in another thread and are further hurt that I haven't promptly responded to you there. I'm sorry, that thread just isn't that important to me.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/19 11:09:35


Post by: tneva82


 Primark G wrote:
I disagree with your sentiment. If you are having problems winning with them that does not equate to everyone else.


So since you seem to be only person in the world without troubles winning feel free to show that by clearing several big competive tournaments. Deal?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/19 19:13:43


Post by: Primark G


If you sponsor me sure thing.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/21 00:14:36


Post by: The Prince of Excess


No need to bicker everyone, I put up another game.

Played against Ulthwe Eldar for my League, also testing out my army still after getting a nice punch in the face from Codex Demons. I think I'm narrowing in on "The Build", let me know what you think.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/21 01:20:16


Post by: Primark G


Orks are a sleeper army. You do them justice.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/21 22:04:51


Post by: pismakron


Ooohh, you have really changed up that army. Interesting...,

Nice game against Ulthwe, allthough I fail to see how it is possible to build an eldar army without a single wave serpent. Your rokkit armed skaven obliterators are not a perfect matchup for Wave Seperpents I think.

How do you feel your new army will stack up to Hive Tyrant spam?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/21 23:01:52


Post by: The Prince of Excess


pismakron wrote:
Ooohh, you have really changed up that army. Interesting...,

Nice game against Ulthwe, allthough I fail to see how it is possible to build an eldar army without a single wave serpent. Your rokkit armed skaven obliterators are not a perfect matchup for Wave Seperpents I think.

How do you feel your new army will stack up to Hive Tyrant spam?


Yeah killing Wave Serpents is a problem, although it's generally not required. Most people run them with limited guns and just as a basket for the Dark Reapers. After that they'll just charge me but now I can walk out, prior to that they were a major problem. The Warpsmith helps a little.

Is Hive Tyrant spam even good? Hive Tyrants have been consistently awful every time I've faced them, they die like nothing and they do very little. Never had a problem killing them and I've faced 2-3 several times. I'm more interested in going against Biovore spam backed by a good Objective focused army.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 00:11:26


Post by: pismakron


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
pismakron wrote:
Ooohh, you have really changed up that army. Interesting...,

Nice game against Ulthwe, allthough I fail to see how it is possible to build an eldar army without a single wave serpent. Your rokkit armed skaven obliterators are not a perfect matchup for Wave Seperpents I think.

How do you feel your new army will stack up to Hive Tyrant spam?


Yeah killing Wave Serpents is a problem, although it's generally not required. Most people run them with limited guns and just as a basket for the Dark Reapers. After that they'll just charge me but now I can walk out, prior to that they were a major problem. The Warpsmith helps a little.

Is Hive Tyrant spam even good? Hive Tyrants have been consistently awful every time I've faced them, they die like nothing and they do very little. Never had a problem killing them and I've faced 2-3 several times. I'm more interested in going against Biovore spam backed by a good Objective focused army.


One of the larger tournaments in the UK just ended. The top lists were Hive Tyrant spam + ripper swarms + mucolid spores, then Howling Banshees in serpents + other stuff, then more Hive Tyrant spam + mucolid spores, then dark talon spam, and number five was big cultist blobs with abbadon, typhus, poxwalkers, Ahriman and about a dozen Obliterators. In general there were LOTS of hive tyrants and lots of Alaitoc. Not many Plagueburst Crawlers and not many Orks, haha.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 00:25:37


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I pretty much dismiss all UK Events, their meta always seems way behind what is top tier. No idea why, I don't live in the UK, but it was that way when I played AoS, that way when I played Warmachine, and it seems that way for 40K. Maybe that's arrogant but I've never seen anything from the UK that made me regret it. It also depends what Mission Pack they play with, a lot of events don't use ITC Missions which really changes what's good. For example I used to play the Cultist and Abaddon army, it has HUGE problems in ITC Missions.

Explain why Hive Tyrants are good, don't point to results. I explain, in detail, why I think things are good. I explain why I think things are bad, just my opinions and game theory. Orks are awful so I don't know why they would be doing well, they've gotten worse and worse as 8th Edition has continued, that's why I sold them. I have no faith they'll be good even with a Codex, the bones of the army aren't powerful. None of the Codexes have re-written an army from the ground up, I doubt Orks will be the first. Also Howling Banshees in Serpents, why? What do Banshees do that's worth anything compared to so many other units you can run in Eldar? I need some British players to break down their meta for me because I do not understand but I want to. It's like they just play stuff that's fine instead of what's broken. Maybe they're more honorable.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 14:37:12


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I pretty much dismiss all UK Events, their meta always seems way behind what is top tier. No idea why, I don't live in the UK, but it was that way when I played AoS, that way when I played Warmachine, and it seems that way for 40K. Maybe that's arrogant but I've never seen anything from the UK that made me regret it. It also depends what Mission Pack they play with, a lot of events don't use ITC Missions which really changes what's good. For example I used to play the Cultist and Abaddon army, it has HUGE problems in ITC Missions.

Explain why Hive Tyrants are good, don't point to results. I explain, in detail, why I think things are good. I explain why I think things are bad, just my opinions and game theory. Orks are awful so I don't know why they would be doing well, they've gotten worse and worse as 8th Edition has continued, that's why I sold them. I have no faith they'll be good even with a Codex, the bones of the army aren't powerful. None of the Codexes have re-written an army from the ground up, I doubt Orks will be the first. Also Howling Banshees in Serpents, why? What do Banshees do that's worth anything compared to so many other units you can run in Eldar? I need some British players to break down their meta for me because I do not understand but I want to. It's like they just play stuff that's fine instead of what's broken. Maybe they're more honorable.


The UK meta for AoS is far and away superior to the US AoS meta I've found. The UK, and Europe in general, accepted and accepts AoS more readily than the US does.

The US does 40k better.

I don't know, hive tyrants seem best when utilized like you utilize your obliterators, but I don't remotely know the math behind their cost effectiveness verse an obliterators, but if it's close, it may come down to who dropped last. And you sold your orks? That bums me out. I'd think a codex could make them quite strong. They had a fairly effective base I think, you'd just need to tweak cost effectiveness.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 18:05:20


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I pretty much dismiss all UK Events, their meta always seems way behind what is top tier. No idea why, I don't live in the UK, but it was that way when I played AoS, that way when I played Warmachine, and it seems that way for 40K. Maybe that's arrogant but I've never seen anything from the UK that made me regret it. It also depends what Mission Pack they play with, a lot of events don't use ITC Missions which really changes what's good. For example I used to play the Cultist and Abaddon army, it has HUGE problems in ITC Missions.

Explain why Hive Tyrants are good, don't point to results. I explain, in detail, why I think things are good. I explain why I think things are bad, just my opinions and game theory. Orks are awful so I don't know why they would be doing well, they've gotten worse and worse as 8th Edition has continued, that's why I sold them. I have no faith they'll be good even with a Codex, the bones of the army aren't powerful. None of the Codexes have re-written an army from the ground up, I doubt Orks will be the first. Also Howling Banshees in Serpents, why? What do Banshees do that's worth anything compared to so many other units you can run in Eldar? I need some British players to break down their meta for me because I do not understand but I want to. It's like they just play stuff that's fine instead of what's broken. Maybe they're more honorable.


The UK meta for AoS is far and away superior to the US AoS meta I've found. The UK, and Europe in general, accepted and accepts AoS more readily than the US does.

The US does 40k better.

I don't know, hive tyrants seem best when utilized like you utilize your obliterators, but I don't remotely know the math behind their cost effectiveness verse an obliterators, but if it's close, it may come down to who dropped last. And you sold your orks? That bums me out. I'd think a codex could make them quite strong. They had a fairly effective base I think, you'd just need to tweak cost effectiveness.


Maybe the UK has changed for AoS since I got out of that game when 8th dropped but I never saw top lists in their premier events. No Kunnin' Rukk, no Skyfire Spam, no SCE Bunker, none of that. I haven't touched AoS since before the new GHB even came out though so I do not know the meta at all anymore, I also haven't touched Warmachine in years.

I have no faith Orks will be good. They're built on top of BS5 in a game where minus to hit is all over the place. Even if Lootas/Tankbustas and so on are set to correct prices they still hit on 5's, at best! KMKs and so on hit on 4's but can't do anything to help with their LoS on correctly built tables. Right now Orks are living and dying off Garg Squigs, they still pay way too much for PKs which are not even good, Big Choppas aren't good, Smite has been nerfed, etc. I just don't see the bones as working, Orks have no shooting that's worth a damn and can survive. Even if the Mechanized options get buffed it's not like cracking a Battlewagon and then gunning down 15 T4 models is hard for any army. I firmly believe GW thinks Orks are for fun only and will not fix any of their issues. I'd love to be wrong though, I just see the army as in the same vein as Dark Eldar where they fundamentally do not work in the actual game.

I can see the power of Hive Tyrants since they're basically vehicles with a 4++, depending on how you equip them. They're just also easy to blow away, like vehicles, and you can only get like 8-9? I haven't seen any of the lists but I assume some of them don't have Wings or they have to run a lot of Rippers to be able to Deep Strike them all. Seems like a fun list to play against though, I should ask one of my locals to proxy it.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 20:46:19


Post by: pismakron


It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 21:18:53


Post by: The Prince of Excess


pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.


America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 21:43:19


Post by: pismakron


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.


America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".


Just of what I have heard, my mate was there, I wasn't. I found this on their facebook page. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlxq0a45bbk18/Uprising18lists.pdf?dl=0


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/22 22:39:04


Post by: The Prince of Excess


pismakron wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.


America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".


Just of what I have heard, my mate was there, I wasn't. I found this on their facebook page. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlxq0a45bbk18/Uprising18lists.pdf?dl=0


Already so many Magnus+Morty+LoSk Deep Strike lists, I can't believe the TO's allowed that when it's obvious it was going to be FAQ'd and has been.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/23 01:08:02


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
pismakron wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.


America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".


Just of what I have heard, my mate was there, I wasn't. I found this on their facebook page. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlxq0a45bbk18/Uprising18lists.pdf?dl=0


Already so many Magnus+Morty+LoSk Deep Strike lists, I can't believe the TO's allowed that when it's obvious it was going to be FAQ'd and has been.


It was a glorious... week? I think that combo lasted a week


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/23 15:56:10


Post by: shakul


Just interested in your last battle report, you said that the Path of Command ability can't be used in conjunction with the Webway Strike stratagem.

I must have missed this somewhere, would you be able to point out why this is? As I understood it if the Autarch had been deployed, and was the Warlord then you could use the Path of Command on the stratagem. Same as the Imperial Guard Relic "Kurovs Aquilla", which we play as affecting even your opponents choice to use a Relic - as you're still using a Stratagem to do so.

I know the stratagems that are used "before the battle" etc can be used multiple times but didn't realise they would be exempt from these abilities.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/23 16:39:43


Post by: The Prince of Excess


shakul wrote:
Just interested in your last battle report, you said that the Path of Command ability can't be used in conjunction with the Webway Strike stratagem.

I must have missed this somewhere, would you be able to point out why this is? As I understood it if the Autarch had been deployed, and was the Warlord then you could use the Path of Command on the stratagem. Same as the Imperial Guard Relic "Kurovs Aquilla", which we play as affecting even your opponents choice to use a Relic - as you're still using a Stratagem to do so.

I know the stratagems that are used "before the battle" etc can be used multiple times but didn't realise they would be exempt from these abilities.


My apologies, the Autarch had not been deployed, the Webway Strike was the first thing done. If the Autarch had been deployed then absolutely you can try to get the Command Points back. This was a mistake on my opponent's part, if I were playing the list I'd deploy the Autarch then do my Deep Strike. It gives some information on your deployment but the guy is on a Jetbike so he can zoom over to wherever and you could fake them out.

I'll update my report to clarify.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/24 10:13:18


Post by: shakul


Ah brilliant, thanks for clarifying! Nice reports btw


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/25 23:53:27


Post by: stratigo


One thing I've noticed that you never seem to have a match against Imperial Guard.

With Guard dominated soup armies being so common on top tables in tournaments, you have to have some thoughts about them


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/26 14:38:50


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
One thing I've noticed that you never seem to have a match against Imperial Guard.

With Guard dominated soup armies being so common on top tables in tournaments, you have to have some thoughts about them


There's not a log of IG in my meta, I believe there's one good player for them in the state, there's another guy who runs the 3 Baneblade list, and there's another who was running a Catachan Artillery line but I haven't spoken to him in a bit and his list was heavily nerfed in Chapter Approved, I think it went up by like 200 Points total (lots of Forge World stuff). I think if ITC Missions weren't a thing there'd be no point to playing anything but Guard or Guard with some soup elements, they have extremely undercosted vehicles still, some of the best Stratgegems while being one of the best armies for getting and recurring Command Points, and they have some of the best Relics. Guard is all about cheap, overlapping Auras that turn zeroes into heroes which has very little counterplay right now, they are vulnerable to Snipers because of T3 and generally bad Armor Saves/Wound values but Snipers are still very overpriced and not every Faction has them. They'd also be more oppressive if it weren't for the proliferation of Minus to Hit in the meta, most Chaos/Eldar/Tyranids/Marines are crutching on that hard in the Guard matchup and they don't have much of an answer to it. The faction is also really bad at progressive scoring missions as I mentioned, they don't want to move since it either incurs shooting penalties or puts their support nearer to the front. The repeated Conscript nerfs means you either have to put Infantry Squads on an Objective as the cheap chaff but they die/run very easily or you have to dedicate with something like Bullgryn who cannot be everywhere at once. This isn't in all ITC MIssions but it comes up in like 4/6 which means over the course of even a 3 Round Tournament you're going to be walking uphill at least once.

Guard are an army I've thought about playing but the meta is unkind to them and frankly I consider them boring. They're one of my least favorite armies to play against because they just don't move and you watch your opponent roll dice forever. The Baneblade Spam build seems popular, I think because it's easy to get together, paint, and play but it's pretty awful since it has no Scenario game and is among the most Alpha-Strike weak armies in the game.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/26 16:38:08


Post by: stratigo


I dunno, guard seem to have some really strong mobile elements if they really need them, but often even under ITC, just shooting your enemy to death fast seems to work out.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/26 17:36:06


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
I dunno, guard seem to have some really strong mobile elements if they really need them, but often even under ITC, just shooting your enemy to death fast seems to work out.


My intention was not to say they're weak, I was commenting that without those two big obstacles they'd likely be the only meaningful competitive faction in the game because they're that good. My opinion is that's bad design because it further incentivizes the -1 to Hit Meta which really keeps some armies down (Orks!) and it makes Guard oppressive when you do not have that tool available to you. Guard walks over armies without -1 to Hit, as you said shooting them off the table fast is completely viable under those circumstances. They also don't take nearly enough punishment for having to use Fall Back because of their composition so melee armies are heavily punished for playing into them, even if they're fast i.e. Dark Eldar/Blood Angels.

I would disagree that they have fast Objective holders. Rough Riders have too many stipulations on their Deep Strike and their profile makes it hard to hide them, they also have Morale issues in larger groups. Bullgryn are slow and have other roles. Sentinels are a possiblity but they die very quickly and might be a drawback depending on composition, they also can't hide easily. Beyond that you have Elysians/Scions but those can be denied unless they come down early and Scions are also a damage unit. Tanks don't make good Objective holders for a variety of reasons, Fliers can't hold Objectives. So it's probably Elysian Infantry, which can harm composition, or regular Infantry units with Move, Move, Move. I wouldn't rate either of those as anything past average.

You see Guard struggle against the top armies now because of the -1 to Hit stacking, if they hit that on top of a bad Scenario then it's extremely hard to win. So most people are just putting them in the soup as backline support and grabbing Marines, Krey Knights, etc. to do the upfront work. I wish soup armies didn't exist but that's an entirely different discussion.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/26 21:18:18


Post by: pismakron


I think the problem here is simply that the -1 to hit traits is objectively better than any of the alternatives in 9 out of 10 cases. You definitely see a significant over-representation of Alpha Legion, Raven Guard and Alaitoc. And why wouldn't you?

But then again, if your Gnarlmaw build becomes the new cool thing, then I fully expect a lot people to enter tournaments with their blue-painted Guilliman-buffed Imperial Fist lascannon devastators. And why wouldn't you?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/26 21:38:28


Post by: The Prince of Excess


pismakron wrote:
I think the problem here is simply that the -1 to hit traits is objectively better than any of the alternatives in 9 out of 10 cases. You definitely see a significant over-representation of Alpha Legion, Raven Guard and Alaitoc. And why wouldn't you?

But then again, if your Gnarlmaw build becomes the new cool thing, then I fully expect a lot people to enter tournaments with their blue-painted Guilliman-buffed Imperial Fist lascannon devastators. And why wouldn't you?


No you're 100% correct, -1 to Hit stacking is going to have to be addressed longterm because it's so oppressive in the meta. Eldar is the worst by far, Chaos used to be but The Changeling took a hammer to the face. I think Eldar shouldn't get Craftworld Traits on Vehicles but what do I know? really confusing why SM/CSM gets it on certain things and then every army started getting it on every model. I prefer it to be Infantry only with a few additions here and there i.e. Dreadnoughts.

I doubt my build will catch on, I'm already probably dropping the Gnarlmaw. Making it a Fortification makes it soooooo hard to include in Matched Play, armies don't work with two Detachments in many cases. And Slimux is so horrifically overpriced that I can't bring myself to use him, he does nothing. I was hoping he'd make a free tree in Matched Play or something but nope.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/27 19:29:05


Post by: stratigo


the tree's a fortification? whut? Why?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/27 19:48:14


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
the tree's a fortification? whut? Why?


Because GW doesn't like selling cool and interesting models I guess.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/27 20:01:03


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
stratigo wrote:
the tree's a fortification? whut? Why?


Because GW doesn't like selling cool and interesting models I guess.


More they have trouble thinking outside the box.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/01/27 20:10:30


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
stratigo wrote:
the tree's a fortification? whut? Why?


Because GW doesn't like selling cool and interesting models I guess.


More they have trouble thinking outside the box.


My honest answer is that I think they believed the model is better than it is. It's nearly useless for a Nurgle Demon army, the Cover is extremely hard to get with units in the size they take and no one cares about a 4+ vs. a 5++ when you have to jump through so many hoops to get it. Being able to Advance and Charge is good but you have to plan ahead and your opponent will see it coming. It's really only useful for Vehicles and Obliterators at this point since you can avoid the tie up strategy but that strategy is very hard to make use of when you play down an entire Detachment or have to pay a 165pt tax that doesn't help your army in other ways.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/02/04 22:16:05


Post by: The Prince of Excess


New Report against Tyranids with me using kind of a hodge-podge army before the Thousand Sons Codex dropped. Come check out my frustration with having to use Plagueburst Crawlers because GW says so.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/02/04 23:11:21


Post by: Zid


While I hate PBC spam, I love the end where you basically echo that... you only play it because it wins, lol. I hope they do stomp soup armies into the ground, maybe then we will see more... varience.. in builds. Seeing the same few units is boring!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/02/04 23:51:41


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Zid wrote:
While I hate PBC spam, I love the end where you basically echo that... you only play it because it wins, lol. I hope they do stomp soup armies into the ground, maybe then we will see more... varience.. in builds. Seeing the same few units is boring!


Yeah I'm really not going to pretend it's an interesting army. I was digging playing 3-5 with some other things but then you look at the list and you say "Wait....why isn't all of this just more Crawlers?" I tried so hard to find something else in Chaos but they're so underpriced it bends the faction. They're two points LESS than a Blight-Hauler! How is that allowed? 10pts less than a Decimator Dreadnought with Butchers, they're cheaper than everything. Ugh. At least the OP Ynaari armies have variety to them.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/02/05 00:27:34


Post by: Zid


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
 Zid wrote:
While I hate PBC spam, I love the end where you basically echo that... you only play it because it wins, lol. I hope they do stomp soup armies into the ground, maybe then we will see more... varience.. in builds. Seeing the same few units is boring!


Yeah I'm really not going to pretend it's an interesting army. I was digging playing 3-5 with some other things but then you look at the list and you say "Wait....why isn't all of this just more Crawlers?" I tried so hard to find something else in Chaos but they're so underpriced it bends the faction. They're two points LESS than a Blight-Hauler! How is that allowed? 10pts less than a Decimator Dreadnought with Butchers, they're cheaper than everything. Ugh. At least the OP Ynaari armies have variety to them.


Thats because they can make many units work in various roles; Chaos, like Marines, is very pigeonholed. Even with Demon detachments most of the detachments become "blob of 30 basic troops, herald, demon prince". GW really should have removed the ability to soup with 8th; pick a faction and maybe get a few options outside, but thats it. Its really weird seeing people field 3 different detachments from 3 different armies and only have 1-2 models from 2 factions, and the bulk of the "army" from the other. Most players are guilty of this, myself included, because options outside your basic codex are so good (warptime... sole reason I have a CSM detachment). Part of the beauty of 5th was finding things within your own codex to address various threats; people could find their own answers, which meant more variety in builds.

By allowing you to basically mix and match between factions creates the abuse we see.... plus low cost solutions you can spam. They really ought to have a "max allowed" tacked to specialist units; this wound also bring some flavor to some armies. For example, for Death Guard they can bring 2 Terminator squads, but Deathwing can have unlimited terminators.

Theres really a lot of directions they can take the game and make it infinitely better. I just hate that chaos comp lists have devolved into a billion PBC's, a billion Obliterators, or some variation therein.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/02/05 01:29:18


Post by: The Prince of Excess


You're 100% right, I only play Chaos because under the current rules they will always be good and I didn't want to buy into Imperium since that's too expansive. Ynaari turns anything on because the benefits are too big, the game isn't made to have units act multiple times and Eldar ignores the rules of the game like no other army. I think they need to admit Soul Burst is a failure and try something else, give them a Codex with Harlequins at some point and just start over.

Soup really does need to go, there was a post from FLG, I think today, that insinuated GW will be making changes to soup armies in March. I really hope that's the case, Detachments are too permissive with that stuff. If they said, which a guy in one of my Facebook Groups suggested, you can take an "allied" Patrol Detachment overnight a lot of these armies are gone. No more Battle Forged Chaos/Imperium/Aeldari but you can sneak some Demons in a Patrol or some Guardsmen. That seems very fair and elegant to me.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/02/05 14:38:14


Post by: Zid


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
You're 100% right, I only play Chaos because under the current rules they will always be good and I didn't want to buy into Imperium since that's too expansive. Ynaari turns anything on because the benefits are too big, the game isn't made to have units act multiple times and Eldar ignores the rules of the game like no other army. I think they need to admit Soul Burst is a failure and try something else, give them a Codex with Harlequins at some point and just start over.

Soup really does need to go, there was a post from FLG, I think today, that insinuated GW will be making changes to soup armies in March. I really hope that's the case, Detachments are too permissive with that stuff. If they said, which a guy in one of my Facebook Groups suggested, you can take an "allied" Patrol Detachment overnight a lot of these armies are gone. No more Battle Forged Chaos/Imperium/Aeldari but you can sneak some Demons in a Patrol or some Guardsmen. That seems very fair and elegant to me.


I definitely like that idea, I'd love for them to go back to a version of the old FOC for smaller games (say, 2,500 or less). Its just kind of stupid allowing people to essentially run whatever they want... I get they want the game to be expansive and living, but in a competitive environment, people will purposely try to bend and break the rules when they can to win. Restrictions need to be placed to keep the game as fair and objective as possible when you want it to be competitive. At the same point, you want the games to be interesting; to me its pretty sad that the armies that need to be ran as a "pure" list, like Tyranids, can't see the top 8 because they can't game the system.

I love Chaos, they were my second army in 5th, and one I'll probably stick with now. I'm happy my first games have been against more varied lists that try to be competitive, but still be an actual "army". I do hope they nerf detachments to make armies more like... ya know, an army.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/02/08 19:22:50


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
You're 100% right, I only play Chaos because under the current rules they will always be good and I didn't want to buy into Imperium since that's too expansive. Ynaari turns anything on because the benefits are too big, the game isn't made to have units act multiple times and Eldar ignores the rules of the game like no other army. I think they need to admit Soul Burst is a failure and try something else, give them a Codex with Harlequins at some point and just start over.

Soup really does need to go, there was a post from FLG, I think today, that insinuated GW will be making changes to soup armies in March. I really hope that's the case, Detachments are too permissive with that stuff. If they said, which a guy in one of my Facebook Groups suggested, you can take an "allied" Patrol Detachment overnight a lot of these armies are gone. No more Battle Forged Chaos/Imperium/Aeldari but you can sneak some Demons in a Patrol or some Guardsmen. That seems very fair and elegant to me.


Be bummer for me since I just grabbed a lot of custodes bikers and I love to slot them in to my ultramarines.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/11 23:40:00


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Back after way too long with two very abridged reports, I explain why in the post. I'll be getting back to my regular posting schedule now that I no longer hate playing 40K.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/12 13:54:53


Post by: Boss Salvage


Skullreaver putting in work

Glad to have you back, looking forward to the full reports, well stomped in these lil' ones.

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/14 16:12:05


Post by: The Prince of Excess


New, Full Battle Report up against Blood Angels. I'm trying to get really in-depth with both my mistakes and my opponent's mistakes, which was the original point of these anyways.

Still figuring out some of the pieces with the list but this is the most complete game I've played with it. Hoping to get more games in this weekend, let me know what you think.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/14 19:54:21


Post by: Zid


Loving the new list question, whats the point of abaddon in it? Also, 200 cultists will be hard for many lists to crack; its a classic death by 1000 cuts style of gameplay


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/14 20:19:52


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Zid wrote:
Loving the new list question, whats the point of abaddon in it? Also, 200 cultists will be hard for many lists to crack; its a classic death by 1000 cuts style of gameplay


Abaddon keeps them from running away as he makes Heretic Astartes Fearless, not just Black Legion. He's a very expensive tax but he's also a great fighter and a very hard Warlord to kill for ITC purposes. I think he needs a points reduction but I'll run him as is.

You're correct, the list is extremely attrition based. That works with my playstyle very well, I'm very much a slow and methodical kind of guy. I also take some pleasure in watching people's faces when they don't quite finish off a unit of Cultists, knowing they'll come back shiny and new.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/15 12:40:35


Post by: Zid


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
 Zid wrote:
Loving the new list question, whats the point of abaddon in it? Also, 200 cultists will be hard for many lists to crack; its a classic death by 1000 cuts style of gameplay


Abaddon keeps them from running away as he makes Heretic Astartes Fearless, not just Black Legion. He's a very expensive tax but he's also a great fighter and a very hard Warlord to kill for ITC purposes. I think he needs a points reduction but I'll run him as is.

You're correct, the list is extremely attrition based. That works with my playstyle very well, I'm very much a slow and methodical kind of guy. I also take some pleasure in watching people's faces when they don't quite finish off a unit of Cultists, knowing they'll come back shiny and new.


Ahhh nice catch with Abaddon! I was a huge fan of his back in 5th, the dude was a beat stick. He can easily kill units, monsters, or vehicles. Even now, I love his rules, but as you said, for the cost I've been avoiding going with him (plus hes not... nurgly... nurgle is best!)

I really like the new list, though. I feel many opponents come loaded for bear but forget about the mice; you need to be able to tackle the large stuff, yes, but in 8th the small stuff en-masse is even more deadly, which is a huge change from previous editions where low strength, high fire weaponry could be ineffective against high toughness. I think you will find a lot of success; I'd be interested in seeing it facing something like a great Tyranid army, or maybe the PBC list you hate to run, haha. Orcs would be an equally interesting matchup; a billion boyz versus a billion cultists.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/15 13:16:19


Post by: Boss Salvage


FWIW I like the new list as well. It's got some crazy kill strength thanks to cheap cultists + good psychics + great strats, but it doesn't feel as boring as typical chaos netlists that triple down on oblits or spam daemon princes (or PBC ). It helps that I like horde armies ... and also helps that these blobs are hella good at objectives. Also I'm tickled by the warpsmith spam, including the random World Eater one

So anyway, it's a smart, strong, biiiig army that I enjoy hearing about, which I can't say for most high end 48k armies, which tend to be obvious, strong, small and kind of boring to see in action

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/15 15:09:07


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Thanks for the votes of confidence. I also think the list will do well, although I wouldn't put it at Tier 1. I kind of go by the old TCG Metrics (my early competitive days) where Tier 2 can often beat Tier 1 since they don't load up against it but it can also lose to random jank. Most high end armies wouldn't be unhappy to see someone new to the game bringing 9 Inceptors to the table, but I sure would.

I hope to play against the PBC army sometime soon, I might even just give one of my buddies my list and have them play it against me. I think the list does very well against it, that army has zero offense against me Turn 1 and I have all the Scenario game. Math averages out to killing ~3 of them per turn once inside Meltagun range but there's of course hiccups in that, meanwhile the Crawlers kill 7 Cultists on average each and their other guns are very hard to get value out of. But we'll see how that translates in game.

I really think more Chaos Players should get on the Warpsmith bandwagon, even if they never repair/curse something they're still so good for their points. I'm foaming at the mouth to play against Ynaari/Eldar with a lot of Psychic and use the Brass Collar + Demon Strategem, losing Warlocks is really bad for that list if you can get there. I'll take the Mortal Wounds against other lists too, very rare right now to see armies without Psykers and I don't think Tau/Necrons/Dark Eldar are going to carve out a big swathe of the player base.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/03/15 19:21:08


Post by: Zid


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Thanks for the votes of confidence. I also think the list will do well, although I wouldn't put it at Tier 1. I kind of go by the old TCG Metrics (my early competitive days) where Tier 2 can often beat Tier 1 since they don't load up against it but it can also lose to random jank. Most high end armies wouldn't be unhappy to see someone new to the game bringing 9 Inceptors to the table, but I sure would.

I hope to play against the PBC army sometime soon, I might even just give one of my buddies my list and have them play it against me. I think the list does very well against it, that army has zero offense against me Turn 1 and I have all the Scenario game. Math averages out to killing ~3 of them per turn once inside Meltagun range but there's of course hiccups in that, meanwhile the Crawlers kill 7 Cultists on average each and their other guns are very hard to get value out of. But we'll see how that translates in game.

I really think more Chaos Players should get on the Warpsmith bandwagon, even if they never repair/curse something they're still so good for their points. I'm foaming at the mouth to play against Ynaari/Eldar with a lot of Psychic and use the Brass Collar + Demon Strategem, losing Warlocks is really bad for that list if you can get there. I'll take the Mortal Wounds against other lists too, very rare right now to see armies without Psykers and I don't think Tau/Necrons/Dark Eldar are going to carve out a big swathe of the player base.


I think I may look into some Warpsmiths in the future, and I can see your point on PBC spam; it doesn't really have volume of fire. Max is 12 shots per PBC, so unless they get extremely lucky.... How do you think you'd fare against something like massed Zerkers or Bloodletter bombs?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/05 23:46:30


Post by: stratigo


As an aside, have you considered touching Necromunda?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/15 21:48:27


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Back with a Tournament Report, 3 Round RTT. Mostly game overviews as it's very hard to do exact writeups of tournament games, at least for me. I also took what pictures I could so I hope it's worth a read. :]


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/16 16:12:18


Post by: stratigo


Herb's the reason I have no interest in tournaments. One of those dudes would ruin my day. It's easier to just play with the tournament goers in my region. Albeit, I gather that I am graced for the area I play in as it's one of the most active in the country.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/18 14:21:25


Post by: Boss Salvage


Cheers for the tourny report, though admittedly I read it all with the new FAQ in mind, which took all the wind out of the PCB ship

Speaking of the FAQ, I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts, and I almost universally agree that all the changes are for the better, particularly the blunting of Alpha Strike. The Rule of Three thing makes me legitimately sad though, as it invalidates all of the armies I've been building on the side for years now - Wraith-spam Necrons, Reaver-spam Wych Cult, Skull Cannon-spam Khorne Daemons (which were juuuust about to get painted as this FAQ dropped) - as well as most of the other skew lists I've been scheming (Rockgrinder-spam GSC being the newest). I really like skew lists and building theme through composition (ain't nobody going to argue that skull cannons are particularly great, and reavers have only very recently become worth the points), but that doesn't look like it'll be a thing in 40k, not like I've been doing it.

So for different reasons than other people, the new FAQ is definitely going to limit my interest in 40k, assuming the adoption of the datasheet limits. At this point if I want to do a new army, I have to start at the troops and ask if I'm prepared to build an army based around them. Which for me and many armies is not the case - though I do have an Immortal-based Necron itch I've been wanting to scratch for some years now ... Anyway, my point is that the datasheet limit feels good for the game, if not good for weird hobbyists like me (and obviously the cut-n-pasters who were abusing GW's inability to internally balance their armies).

PS: Your new list seems cool? Catachan-rats is a working concept (S4!), plus 17 CP seems pretty crazy

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/18 15:23:37


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
Cheers for the tourny report, though admittedly I read it all with the new FAQ in mind, which took all the wind out of the PCB ship

Speaking of the FAQ, I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts, and I almost universally agree that all the changes are for the better, particularly the blunting of Alpha Strike. The Rule of Three thing makes me legitimately sad though, as it invalidates all of the armies I've been building on the side for years now - Wraith-spam Necrons, Reaver-spam Wych Cult, Skull Cannon-spam Khorne Daemons (which were juuuust about to get painted as this FAQ dropped) - as well as most of the other skew lists I've been scheming (Rockgrinder-spam GSC being the newest). I really like skew lists and building theme through composition (ain't nobody going to argue that skull cannons are particularly great, and reavers have only very recently become worth the points), but that doesn't look like it'll be a thing in 40k, not like I've been doing it.

So for different reasons than other people, the new FAQ is definitely going to limit my interest in 40k, assuming the adoption of the datasheet limits. At this point if I want to do a new army, I have to start at the troops and ask if I'm prepared to build an army based around them. Which for me and many armies is not the case - though I do have an Immortal-based Necron itch I've been wanting to scratch for some years now ... Anyway, my point is that the datasheet limit feels good for the game, if not good for weird hobbyists like me (and obviously the cut-n-pasters who were abusing GW's inability to internally balance their armies).

PS: Your new list seems cool? Catachan-rats is a working concept (S4!), plus 17 CP seems pretty crazy

- Salvage


Yeah me and my great timing on tournaments, oh well. I'd much rather have the FAQ than not as it's gotten me back into the game. I can totally see your complaint about the Rule of Three, it does impact a lot of armies that weren't abusive in terms of power level. Personally I still love it but there's going to be collateral damage. My hope is that even if more casual armies get swept up by the change it will promote more variety. There are armies which can skirt the rule, as I'm working on, overall I think it will be a positive change though.

From a game design perspective it just had to happen. Games Workshop can't continue to be behind the ball as top players find models that are a bit too good and exploit them. The Rule of Three will absolutely not stop min-maxing but I think it contains severe problems until the next update. Imagine if no one had found the Flyrant List until AFTER the Spring FAQ and there was no Rule of Three Ugh.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/18 18:07:09


Post by: Zid


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
 Boss Salvage wrote:
Cheers for the tourny report, though admittedly I read it all with the new FAQ in mind, which took all the wind out of the PCB ship

Speaking of the FAQ, I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts, and I almost universally agree that all the changes are for the better, particularly the blunting of Alpha Strike. The Rule of Three thing makes me legitimately sad though, as it invalidates all of the armies I've been building on the side for years now - Wraith-spam Necrons, Reaver-spam Wych Cult, Skull Cannon-spam Khorne Daemons (which were juuuust about to get painted as this FAQ dropped) - as well as most of the other skew lists I've been scheming (Rockgrinder-spam GSC being the newest). I really like skew lists and building theme through composition (ain't nobody going to argue that skull cannons are particularly great, and reavers have only very recently become worth the points), but that doesn't look like it'll be a thing in 40k, not like I've been doing it.

So for different reasons than other people, the new FAQ is definitely going to limit my interest in 40k, assuming the adoption of the datasheet limits. At this point if I want to do a new army, I have to start at the troops and ask if I'm prepared to build an army based around them. Which for me and many armies is not the case - though I do have an Immortal-based Necron itch I've been wanting to scratch for some years now ... Anyway, my point is that the datasheet limit feels good for the game, if not good for weird hobbyists like me (and obviously the cut-n-pasters who were abusing GW's inability to internally balance their armies).

PS: Your new list seems cool? Catachan-rats is a working concept (S4!), plus 17 CP seems pretty crazy

- Salvage


Yeah me and my great timing on tournaments, oh well. I'd much rather have the FAQ than not as it's gotten me back into the game. I can totally see your complaint about the Rule of Three, it does impact a lot of armies that weren't abusive in terms of power level. Personally I still love it but there's going to be collateral damage. My hope is that even if more casual armies get swept up by the change it will promote more variety. There are armies which can skirt the rule, as I'm working on, overall I think it will be a positive change though.

From a game design perspective it just had to happen. Games Workshop can't continue to be behind the ball as top players find models that are a bit too good and exploit them. The Rule of Three will absolutely not stop min-maxing but I think it contains severe problems until the next update. Imagine if no one had found the Flyrant List until AFTER the Spring FAQ and there was no Rule of Three Ugh.


Bingo. There was bound to be armies hurt by the FAQ, no matter what.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/24 13:14:50


Post by: Spoletta


Your article on the FAQ changes was interesting, but i think that you should check the Chapter Approved. GW already made the jump to progressive scoring, with 9 of the 12 new missions using that instead of end game scoring.

I also consider CA missions better than ITC missions, but that's a personal opinion.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/24 15:16:47


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Spoletta wrote:
Your article on the FAQ changes was interesting, but i think that you should check the Chapter Approved. GW already made the jump to progressive scoring, with 9 of the 12 new missions using that instead of end game scoring.

I also consider CA missions better than ITC missions, but that's a personal opinion.


Those Missions have other competitive problems but yes, some are progressive scoring. If I had the book with me at work I could speak to that more authoritatively, perhaps I'll write an article about it. :] To each their own on Missions, I just want GW to keep improving and invalidate the ITC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New Battle Report up with me playing a mixed Imperial army. Went up against Raven Guard and had a pretty fun game, looking forward to testing this list in the brave new meta. Reports of Blood Angels demise have been GREATLY exaggerated.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/04/28 20:42:52


Post by: stratigo


I'm not sure that you'll be able to run 5 captains much longer. I've been hearing some rumbles that GW is gonna fold similar index datasheets into counting for the max 3 of any sheet rule.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/03 19:07:40


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I'm back with another game, sporting a much more optimized Imperium list. I had two games prior to this that I did not report for reasons I go over but I should have another in the barrel soon.

Highly recommend Blood Angels, this is easily the most fun list I've played in 8th Edition.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/25 20:40:12


Post by: Thantos Kalev


I am loving your batreps and in-depth analysis of both your lists and competitive play in general. Please keep them coming.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/27 23:28:17


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Thantos Kalev wrote:
I am loving your batreps and in-depth analysis of both your lists and competitive play in general. Please keep them coming.


Thank you very much for the kind words. I have a new report up, trying to get back in the swing of things but all these proxies are killing me. Played a very tight game against Tau!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/29 15:41:12


Post by: Boss Salvage


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Thank you very much for the kind words. I have a new report up, trying to get back in the swing of things but all these proxies are killing me. Played a very tight game against Tau!
w00t!

Related, I recently read through your non-game wall o' text post on list dev, enjoyed with the caveat that I wanted to see where the list ended up! So particularly enthused to have a new report so I can find out

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/29 16:02:30


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Thank you very much for the kind words. I have a new report up, trying to get back in the swing of things but all these proxies are killing me. Played a very tight game against Tau!
w00t!

Related, I recently read through your non-game wall o' text post on list dev, enjoyed with the caveat that I wanted to see where the list ended up! So particularly enthused to have a new report so I can find out

- Salvage


Thank you! The list will not end up as I posted in the most recent game, that solidified my changing some things I was on the fence about. I may get another game in this week before my RTT, I got one on Monday but it was a huge stomp (in my favor) so I didn't want to do a write-up for it. I still have so much conversion work to do which is not really my forte. ><


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/29 16:21:08


Post by: Boss Salvage


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
The list will not end up as I posted in the most recent game, that solidified my changing some things I was on the fence about.
Following your comments at the end, something like this?
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment - Imperial Guard (Cadia)

Company Commander w/ Shotgun, Karov's Aquila [Warlord w/ Grand Strategist]
Primaris Psyker [Psychic Malestrom, Terrifying Visions]
Primaris Psyker [Psychic Malestrom, Terrifying Visions]

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Mortar Squad
Mortar Squad

Battalion Detachment - Blood Angels

Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield [The Angel's Wings]

5 Scouts w/ Bolters
5 Scouts w/ Bolters
5 Scouts w/ Bolters

Battalion Detachment - Deathwatch

Librarian [Null Zone, Might of Heroes] w/ Jump Pack
Watch Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Watch Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

5 Intercessors, 3 Hell Blasters, 1 Inceptor
5 Intercessors, 3 Hell Blasters, 1 Inceptor
5 Intercessors, 3 Hell Blasters, 1 Inceptor
FWIW the symmetry alone appeals to me, but +1 to downgrading / ditching some infantry squads, I kept wondering what those dudes were going to do for you, beyond their board placement abilities. Also means less rats to give rifles to!

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/29 16:57:41


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
The list will not end up as I posted in the most recent game, that solidified my changing some things I was on the fence about.
Following your comments at the end, something like this?
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment - Imperial Guard (Cadia)

Company Commander w/ Shotgun, Karov's Aquila [Warlord w/ Grand Strategist]
Primaris Psyker [Psychic Malestrom, Terrifying Visions]
Primaris Psyker [Psychic Malestrom, Terrifying Visions]

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Mortar Squad
Mortar Squad

Battalion Detachment - Blood Angels

Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield [The Angel's Wings]

5 Scouts w/ Bolters
5 Scouts w/ Bolters
5 Scouts w/ Bolters

Battalion Detachment - Deathwatch

Librarian [Null Zone, Might of Heroes] w/ Jump Pack
Watch Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Watch Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

5 Intercessors, 3 Hell Blasters, 1 Inceptor
5 Intercessors, 3 Hell Blasters, 1 Inceptor
5 Intercessors, 3 Hell Blasters, 1 Inceptor
FWIW the symmetry alone appeals to me, but +1 to downgrading / ditching some infantry squads, I kept wondering what those dudes were going to do for you, beyond their board placement abilities. Also means less rats to give rifles to!

- Salvage


Yup you have it almost exactly, just missing a dropped Infantry Mortar and a Stormbolter/Force Axe on the Librarian now that the FAQ dropped.. With the Inceptor addition I need less anti-Infantry so I moved back to the HWS which I like much better. The Guardsmen were for some board control but you really need to run a lot of them to make that work, I've played between 30-60 and 100 in many games to finally settle on what feels like the right amount. My weekend event will probably be the trial by fire for the Hellblasters, they do not help me in problem matchups but they are very good in pretty much everything else. Death Company is the other route to go but they also aren't the biggest help against poor matchups, what I'd really love is something that kills Venoms/Starweavers at range but Imperium has access to almost nothing that does that job well when you start running damage vs. points.

Scouts are also pretty useless but any of the Blood Angels Troops will be so there's little point in freaking out about that. The Librarian is quickly becoming the most important model in the army for some games as Null Zone is amazing against DE/'Quins/Tau, I wish I could put him on a Bike. If I can brainstorm a suitable replacement the Hellblasters are most likely gone, they haven't one much yet but to be fair I have also played them into bad matchups.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/30 20:49:00


Post by: stratigo


I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight. Every game boils down to “well I’m just going to not engage with your army at all and grab objectives”. I like my battles to involve actual fighting


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/30 20:52:16


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight. Every game boils down to “well I’m just going to not engage with your army at all and grab objectives”. I like my battles to involve actual fighting


Yeah I can see it being quite boring. They're the least interactive model in the game, you can't do anything to them except just hope to get through the save. Putting out enough Mortal Wounds to drop one isn't viable and most armies do not have access to Invulnerable stripping, even those that do are hard pressed to apply it. But according to many I'm an idiot for saying they need to be toned down because Tau haven't won a major yet. I guess people will just have to work on their ability to get Turn 1, that's counter-play right?


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/31 22:09:26


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
stratigo wrote:
I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight. Every game boils down to “well I’m just going to not engage with your army at all and grab objectives”. I like my battles to involve actual fighting


Yeah I can see it being quite boring. They're the least interactive model in the game, you can't do anything to them except just hope to get through the save. Putting out enough Mortal Wounds to drop one isn't viable and most armies do not have access to Invulnerable stripping, even those that do are hard pressed to apply it. But according to many I'm an idiot for saying they need to be toned down because Tau haven't won a major yet. I guess people will just have to work on their ability to get Turn 1, that's counter-play right?


That's the problem. Tau aren't unbeatable. Heck, even in tournies, very skilled players with tau pretty much sit in a castle and shoot. They don't really do the objective game well (Their obsec units are all paper fragile and a riptide is still only one model). And so it's easy (Relatively) to get objectives and beat them. But it is so boring to play against.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/05/31 22:12:44


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
 The Prince of Excess wrote:
stratigo wrote:
I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight. Every game boils down to “well I’m just going to not engage with your army at all and grab objectives”. I like my battles to involve actual fighting


Yeah I can see it being quite boring. They're the least interactive model in the game, you can't do anything to them except just hope to get through the save. Putting out enough Mortal Wounds to drop one isn't viable and most armies do not have access to Invulnerable stripping, even those that do are hard pressed to apply it. But according to many I'm an idiot for saying they need to be toned down because Tau haven't won a major yet. I guess people will just have to work on their ability to get Turn 1, that's counter-play right?


That's the problem. Tau aren't unbeatable. Heck, even in tournies, very skilled players with tau pretty much sit in a castle and shoot. They don't really do the objective game well (Their obsec units are all paper fragile and a riptide is still only one model). And so it's easy (Relatively) to get objectives and beat them. But it is so boring to play against.


No they're not unbeatable, they are very strong though. It would be good for Games Workshop to incentivize taking their more active pieces, like Crisis Suits and Fliers. Tau will always be kind of a castle army but if you give them the ability to not play like that then maybe they'll take it and run.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/01 14:00:34


Post by: Boss Salvage


stratigo wrote:
I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight.
I got the feeling pre-codex that riptides were pretty toned down in 8E? Or a combination of being really upcosted and/or losing abilities. Regardless, I remember being relieved that 7E's riptide-agogo was over when the new edition dropped, bit sad to hear that's not necessarily true

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/01 15:26:21


Post by: Spoletta


 Boss Salvage wrote:
stratigo wrote:
I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight.
I got the feeling pre-codex that riptides were pretty toned down in 8E? Or a combination of being really upcosted and/or losing abilities. Regardless, I remember being relieved that 7E's riptide-agogo was over when the new edition dropped, bit sad to hear that's not necessarily true

- Salvage


Don't worry, they are nowhere near 7E level. They are quite strong and mostly unfun now, but not broken.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/01 15:55:19


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Yes I would hesitate to say they're broken but it's close. I think Vaults are actually broken, I've been trying very hard to find someone with that list or who can proxy it so I can get a better feel but there's very little Necrons in my area. I think the only thing holding them back is that Necrons are pretty terrible outside of that model, very poor Codex overall. Tau have a very strong Codex which is further propping up a problematic model, there's other builds waiting in the wings if Riptides get a nerf or a points increase.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/03 03:25:17


Post by: stratigo


 Boss Salvage wrote:
stratigo wrote:
I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight.
I got the feeling pre-codex that riptides were pretty toned down in 8E? Or a combination of being really upcosted and/or losing abilities. Regardless, I remember being relieved that 7E's riptide-agogo was over when the new edition dropped, bit sad to hear that's not necessarily true

- Salvage


They don't get to drop in and murder everyone in endless torrents of firepower, with a plus of being invisible if you are a total cheesing spanker, but they are very very strong. Albeit, I play custodes right now, so their strengths are all hitting my weaknesses and it's just not fun to play. Having a three up invul on a toughness seven chassis, with the amount of quality shooting (that is in the perfect anti custodes configuration), that has the fly keyword, that can do mega overwatches on a 5+ (the tau players I have played see custodes and go "I'm totally t'au sept), have the ability to heal, and other strategum options, just gets frustrating. For slightly more points, a squad of 3 bikers WITH reroll support will do.... 6 damage on average, provided there are no drones nearby. And then it can fly away and it deals more damage back.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/03 04:14:58


Post by: The Prince of Excess


stratigo wrote:
 Boss Salvage wrote:
stratigo wrote:
I’ve stopped playing against tau because riptides are so boring to fight.
I got the feeling pre-codex that riptides were pretty toned down in 8E? Or a combination of being really upcosted and/or losing abilities. Regardless, I remember being relieved that 7E's riptide-agogo was over when the new edition dropped, bit sad to hear that's not necessarily true

- Salvage


They don't get to drop in and murder everyone in endless torrents of firepower, with a plus of being invisible if you are a total cheesing spanker, but they are very very strong. Albeit, I play custodes right now, so their strengths are all hitting my weaknesses and it's just not fun to play. Having a three up invul on a toughness seven chassis, with the amount of quality shooting (that is in the perfect anti custodes configuration), that has the fly keyword, that can do mega overwatches on a 5+ (the tau players I have played see custodes and go "I'm totally t'au sept), have the ability to heal, and other strategum options, just gets frustrating. For slightly more points, a squad of 3 bikers WITH reroll support will do.... 6 damage on average, provided there are no drones nearby. And then it can fly away and it deals more damage back.


Yeah you're raising pretty much all the problems. The only counter-play that Riptides have are to either go first, clear the Drones AND be able to Charge or put big guns into them, or down them in attacks that wound on 4's/5's, or strip their Invulnerable which barely anything can do and is almost impossible when you consider positioning. They take Mortal Wounds but no army puts out enough to matter. You can't tag them in Combat, you can't make them worse by forcing them to move, you can't hide from them unless it's in your deployment zone. Their damage output is not as high as other models in the game but it's the fact you cannot kill them and they just keep blowing a unit a turn away. Any Tau list that doesn't start with 3 Riptides is sub-optimal regardless of meta, Missions, etc. and that means they're a huge problem for the game. A guy just won my local RTT by only playing two of them, although he did have a fairly easy path by dodging the 3/10 players who would probably have given him a game.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/04 00:03:31


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Put up my newest game, which was actually an RTT I attended over the weekend. Sadly I didn't do as well as I was hoping but many things were learned which is all you can ask for.

The reports are MUCH looser than my normal ones because I can't remember all the small details of three games, pictures are at the end of each round. Hope you enjoy!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/22 00:25:54


Post by: stratigo


Again, Herb, the reason I tend to avoid tournaments


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/25 17:07:43


Post by: The Prince of Excess


New Battle Report up after a drought of being able to play. This game was not the most competitive, full disclosure, but I wanted to post something and I think there's some valuable information for players looking to get more into the competitive side of things.

Gonna try to do 1-2 Reports this week as well as a Tournament so hopefully people still care.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/26 14:07:30


Post by: Boss Salvage


I've been reading, even the non-report posts (madness!) Although I am sort of cycling away from 40k with AOS 2.0 releasing, trying to get my head back into games I actually play competitively (KOW) and games I am purposely not playing competitively (AOS + MFX). Hoping I can twist some AOS people to avoid the WAAC-train of 40k and just embrace the carnage (since AOS is still a startlingly bad candidate for competitive gaming - also here's hoping it continues to borrow things from 40k to make itself better).

Anyhoo, thanks for posting, look forward to the next reports + tournament

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/26 21:02:50


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
I've been reading, even the non-report posts (madness!) Although I am sort of cycling away from 40k with AOS 2.0 releasing, trying to get my head back into games I actually play competitively (KOW) and games I am purposely not playing competitively (AOS + MFX). Hoping I can twist some AOS people to avoid the WAAC-train of 40k and just embrace the carnage (since AOS is still a startlingly bad candidate for competitive gaming - also here's hoping it continues to borrow things from 40k to make itself better).

Anyhoo, thanks for posting, look forward to the next reports + tournament

- Salvage


Thanks a lot for the kind words, and yeah you are crazy to read my rambling posts! I am working on a sponsored review of AoS 2.0, should be up this week. I agree that AoS looks like it has a long way to go to be a competitive game, they idn't change enough in the new GHB and I'm really not feeling the addition of Summoning. Even if it's not overpowered they've had to do so many rewrites for a game that's already so broken. That Design Teams only focus should be pumping out two Battle Tomes a month ala 40K until everything they want to keep is done. They can always go back and add models and update the Battle Tome later. The game just feels so fractured whereas the 40K Team has been killing it in almost every possible way.

In other news I put up another game, me versus another Mixed Imperium army. Enjoy.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/26 23:11:05


Post by: stratigo


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
 Boss Salvage wrote:
I've been reading, even the non-report posts (madness!) Although I am sort of cycling away from 40k with AOS 2.0 releasing, trying to get my head back into games I actually play competitively (KOW) and games I am purposely not playing competitively (AOS + MFX). Hoping I can twist some AOS people to avoid the WAAC-train of 40k and just embrace the carnage (since AOS is still a startlingly bad candidate for competitive gaming - also here's hoping it continues to borrow things from 40k to make itself better).

Anyhoo, thanks for posting, look forward to the next reports + tournament

- Salvage


Thanks a lot for the kind words, and yeah you are crazy to read my rambling posts! I am working on a sponsored review of AoS 2.0, should be up this week. I agree that AoS looks like it has a long way to go to be a competitive game, they idn't change enough in the new GHB and I'm really not feeling the addition of Summoning. Even if it's not overpowered they've had to do so many rewrites for a game that's already so broken. That Design Teams only focus should be pumping out two Battle Tomes a month ala 40K until everything they want to keep is done. They can always go back and add models and update the Battle Tome later. The game just feels so fractured whereas the 40K Team has been killing it in almost every possible way.

In other news I put up another game, me versus another Mixed Imperium army. Enjoy.


Summoning is going to be ridiculous. Not for all armies that have it, but for some of them. And the armies getting summoning... most of them are ALREADY armies that are at the top tier. Tzeentch obviously. But Nurgle is the standout for me. They get summoning with no nerfs, and have been tearing up the competitive sigmar scene for a while. Seraphon are going to be wild too. They had a few competitive builds, and this just makes them overwhelmingly stronger.

Sylvaneth are going to be back in a big way too.

AoS changed practically nothing except nerfing shooting and free summons and the ability to fire off command abilities multiple times a turn (Nurgle has a whole bunch of amazing command abilities). Few armies got any meaningful point adjustment except tzeentch. My KO stayed within 20 points for all my lists I've used.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/06/27 13:30:44


Post by: Boss Salvage


stratigo wrote:
Tzeentch obviously.
I actually have a big Tizz Daemons army that's wandered from WHFB to AOS to 40k and now back to AOS, but I've found it pretty hard to make lists with the new points and my existing models, as pinks (my only battleline) are so astronomically priced now - I mean, I get why, but I also don't have any splits nor want to build them. So while I can now field like 3000+ points I'm not sure it's very good vs even points! I'll be curious to see how Tizz lists work now, and how great fate pool summoning goes, but I may sit Tizz out until I can get my Omniscient Oracles list off the ground

But yea, early winners to my somewhat untrained eye are Seraphon + Nurgle. Sylvaneth have always intimidated me - I feel like they and Bloodbound were the first armies to get heavy synergy, but in Sylvaneth's case they also have magic and synergy that isn't based solely on snipeable heroes. While I'm excited to see what my Khorne Daemons can do, and what ruckus a free late game 'thirster can get up to, it really feels like you want some wizards to play this edition, as that's where most of the effort went from the design end.

OT: Another report, sweet!

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/04 20:34:57


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Updated Battle Reports of me kind of playing in a tournament (had to step in for someone when I was TO'ing). Also a good amount of discussion on Knights for those of you looking to combat the big stompies. I will touch on that more sometime this week.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/06 18:49:17


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Another Battle Report, this time against a very competitive Knight list. I've been badly wanting to test against Knights as they're the new hotness and they back it up. Not as many pictures as usual although I think I got most of the relevant action.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/06 20:04:50


Post by: Boss Salvage


Cheers for more reports. Not many game comments, this is a bit too high level for me, but I do appreciate the librarian dread making your list. It's a cool and distinctive unit, nice to see him swooping around a competitive match.

I had no idea the gallant was a competitive thing, seemed to my view from the bleachers that knights with 1 ccw weren't seen much, let alone 2! I've seen a couple Chaos gallants but I assumed that was a rule of cool / Chaos-is-craaazy modeling thing, not actually functional. Or is this because they're like 100+ points cheaper with that loadout?

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/06 20:12:21


Post by: stratigo


The Gallent was made cheaper, it gained another attack, its ws went to 2 plus, and there is a lot of strategums and traits that benefit it. The gallent is the most improved unit in the codex, and it shows. It is a solid knight now


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/06 20:17:18


Post by: The Prince of Excess


The Gallant is arguably the best Knight, as stratigo alluded to. WS2 is a huge deal, as is another Attack when you look at their weapons. The fist used to be laughably worthless but now it has one of the best Stratagems in the book so you can either kill Characters or Vehicles or Hordes with ease.

You can also deliver them as they're naturally fast but can get bonuses to Advance and Charges (one of which is an Aura), they can Advance and Charge, and their survivability can be tailored.

One of the biggest strengths of Knights, at least in ITC Play, is you can choose the Trait/Relic before each game. Opponent has a lot of melee? Take anti-Melee stuff. A lot of guns? Bolster their Saves.

The Librarian Dreadnought is pretty cool, he's not the most competitive choice but most competitive =/= the best inclusion for a list. By himself he can render a Knight less effective, particularly great for going against Crusaders. He's very likely to stick around until the next round of changes to the game, now I just need to convert one!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/06 20:24:59


Post by: Boss Salvage


Well then! I assumed the extra attak (helbrutes and stuff get similar), but not all the other buffs. Death Grip is pretty cool, bit of an AOS mechanic (i.e. fluffy and involves a roll off with your opponent) however the dividends against high invulns seem legit.

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/06 20:30:20


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Right now in Competitive play high survivability models are huge. Shield-Captains, Smash Captains, various Eldar options. The Stratagem kills almost all of those without even rolling dice if you get your hands on them. And of course you can try your luck against many other things that see table time.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/07 14:07:33


Post by: Zid


Hey there Prince,

I liked your Meta review in that last report, but I have to disagree with the assessment that Chaos isn't in a good spot (besides PB spam). I feel that Nurgle is overall the strongest, but others still have their place; for example, a bloodletter bomb can (arguably) wreck a Knight with the help of a prince w/ crown. Skullreaver is seeing a lot of play now because it can easily tear down a knight. Death Hex means CSM gunlines can be equipped to take out knights from range. I will say that PBC spam may not be as strong now, but its still a great option. Overall I think Chaos (as a whole) is mid tier, with a few options being top tier. I've been reading a lot of good things about 1k sons mixed with Nurgle Demons for smite spam.

I will say Imperium is definitely the strongest overall at the moment, theres a LOT of options. IK did swing the meta, but with Space Wolves and Orks following up... perhaps Orks will be the perfect foil to Knights because Knights have a hard matchup versus hordes, and with a meta swing toward large stuff, a horde army could certainly even the playing field once again.

I'm extremely interested to see whats coming down after the last few codices. I really hope this years CA sees a lot of rebalancing across the board. Interested in your thoughts!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/08 05:54:11


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Thank you for the kind words.

Chaos certainly has the tools to work with Knights. Obliterators, PBCs, Bloodletter Bomb, Khornite DP, and FW Dreadnoughts are all viable counters. The issue with Chaos is they have no good TAC builds.

You're right that Nurgle is the best, shocking since GW just....forgot to do anything for the other three gods for the most part in the Demons Codex. But you can't build any great armies with what Chaos has to offer.

Nurgle Demons Vehicles? Not enough offense and gets whooped on by Knights now, in addition to the various counter-Knight strategies.

Bloodletter Bomb? Still countered by screens and backed by an army that has issues removing them. Also has to wait longer now.

Obliterator Spam? Lost Changeling and hurt by the FAQ. Cultists Spam? Wrecked by the FAQ. Fire Raptors? Gutted by the FAQ.

Really all I see still standing is Alpha Legion tricks with Cultists, Noise Marines, and Berzerkers but that's 100% reliant on going first. Plaguebearer Spam is also a thing but it's a very one trick pony. What lists have you seen doing well? :]


Orks are definitely a wildcard. I don't see them being good, BS5 is too much of a drawback and I don't know if GW realizes the flaws in the Faction. But they could surprised me and I'd love a viable horde army in competitive play.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/08 21:02:35


Post by: Zid


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
Thank you for the kind words.

Chaos certainly has the tools to work with Knights. Obliterators, PBCs, Bloodletter Bomb, Khornite DP, and FW Dreadnoughts are all viable counters. The issue with Chaos is they have no good TAC builds.

You're right that Nurgle is the best, shocking since GW just....forgot to do anything for the other three gods for the most part in the Demons Codex. But you can't build any great armies with what Chaos has to offer.

Nurgle Demons Vehicles? Not enough offense and gets whooped on by Knights now, in addition to the various counter-Knight strategies.

Bloodletter Bomb? Still countered by screens and backed by an army that has issues removing them. Also has to wait longer now.

Obliterator Spam? Lost Changeling and hurt by the FAQ. Cultists Spam? Wrecked by the FAQ. Fire Raptors? Gutted by the FAQ.

Really all I see still standing is Alpha Legion tricks with Cultists, Noise Marines, and Berzerkers but that's 100% reliant on going first. Plaguebearer Spam is also a thing but it's a very one trick pony. What lists have you seen doing well? :]


Orks are definitely a wildcard. I don't see them being good, BS5 is too much of a drawback and I don't know if GW realizes the flaws in the Faction. But they could surprised me and I'd love a viable horde army in competitive play.


TAC lists are relative to the meta; we haven't had any major tourneys yet to "measure" the IK's impact quite yet. I agree, overall Imperium as a whole is much stronger than Chaos or Xenos (besides Eldar), because they can pull from so many factions with their own strengths. Even so, national tourney meta doesn't mirror local metas. Generally local scenes see the "niche" lists that tend to knock certain lists out. For example, my last tourney saw the only IK player pitted against aMechanized IG list with 3 valyries, and like a bazillion tanks, scions, etc.; which was a perfect foil to a few knights.

That said, seems like I've been reading a lot of different Chaos varients doing reasonably well through ITC or ETC formats, but generally the lists revolve around Nurgle Demons with 1k Sons support (for smite spam), lots of Demon Princes with talons, and Diabolic Strength. A demon prince under DS with talons can do a LOT of damage to a knight... if you pop virulent blessing on one as well, its GG knight. I'm just interested to hear your thoughts, I'm stuck in with Chaos for the long haul so regardless of how they do I'll keep playing em


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/08 21:51:59


Post by: The Prince of Excess


You're absolutely right that small scale FLGS Metas can be very different than the national stage. People also have a hard time keeping things straight, for example the ETC is a horrible event to even look at lists because the format is SO unique and heavily favors the biggest skews possible. Luckily BAO is coming up soon which will be the first big tests for Knights. I would be surprised to see a Knight heavy army win it all, I don't think that's their role competitively. Knights are the ultimate Gatekeepers, they punish you the hardest of any Faction if you show up without the tools to handle them but they crumble to lists that keep them in mind. You can check out my Tournament "Report" to see how that went, a guy with two Shadowswords got 2nd Place because he made a hard read on what people would show up with. At a larger event with more diversity that would have backfired badly.

You actually touched on one of my gripes with the game in that it's so competitively fractured. ITC, Book Missions, Adepticon Missions, ETC, ATC, the list goes on of these hyper-specific tournament packets that vastly change how the game is played and how armies have to be built. I come from Warmachine competitively where there was one format and it was regularly balanced. This made everything easier for TO's, Players, and the publisher. Imagine what a nightmare it must be for Games Workshop to fix problems with all those considerations! Of course they're a bit at fault for refusing to print competitive Missions in Chapter Approved or the Core Rulebook, despite being amazing with AoS Missions.

I agree with you that Chaos has the tools to handle Knights, they can handle anything because they have so many options. The issue I continue to mention is their TAC lists, which is all I care about. A big issue is Chaos lacks valuable Troops compared to Eldar and Imperium. Cultists were hit hard and to make them work now you're either looking at the Alpha Legion Bomb or an Abaddon build, both shadows of what they once were and they weren't setting the world on fire. You can fill out Battalions without issue in Chaos but now Cultists are in the "tax" category where as Guardsmen, Rangers, Scouts, Kabalites, etc. all have actual uses. Valuable Troops like Nurglings force a Demon Detachment which may not work with your ideal composition. Armies that don't pay points tax have consistently done well, even smaller Factions like Tyranids, Orks, and Tau.

I also see a lot of people casually mention "You do x and y and z and goodbye Knight!" but a lot of the time either the math doesn't work out or you're creating a Rube Goldberg machine to kill a model. For example your Demon Prince plan is pretty straight-forward, take a DP with Wings and put one Psychic Power on it. That's not much to ask. It does have to be a Nurgle DP which isn't bad but more options would be nice. One obstacle is delivery, how are we getting that model into melee? If we run at the Knights we're likely dying on the way there so we also need some stuff to screen. This makes the strategy more board dependent, you can use Nurglings but if Terrain is bad they might die before they can deliver the DP. If we Deep Strike then we're hoping on that 50/50 and we may need to remove screens. Even on delivery the average damage output is going to be roughly 6 Wounds (with the Psychic Power only), nowhere near killing a Knight. Demonic Strength pumps it up to ~10-12 Wounds. Now you're dumping all these resources into being able to one-round a Knight and by the time you're done the list is 1000 Points down! (Slight exaggeration). What's going to become quickly apparent is that Knights don't work well alone but when you start adding in Primaris Psykers for Deny the Witch, Custodes or Deathwatch for anti-Infantry, and so on a lot of the compositions people are taking to beat the big boys get a lot rockier.

Right now Imperium and Eldar are both running off multiple over-powered units and abilities, all of which I hope get hit with a bat. Chaos was in the same position, they just happened to get the bat first and worst while running out of Codexes in the pipe. Without Dark Eldar you'd see MUCH less Ynaari/Craftworlds and without Knights/BA/Custodes/Guard shenanigans you'd see MUCH less Imperium. That's my sincere hope for the game by the end of the year, we're so close to a game with great parity and a wide array of options.

Similar to you I'll be sticking to Imperium as they play more the way I want an army to play. I like very hard hitting melee stuff, which Chaos can do but it was requiring too many synergies for my taste. I also love Deathwatch and think they'll come back into the limelight if the meta gets corrected. Eldar has never appealed to me as it's all shooting, even more so with Shining Spears being forced out in the wake of Knights.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/09 19:46:38


Post by: Zid


 The Prince of Excess wrote:
You're absolutely right that small scale FLGS Metas can be very different than the national stage. People also have a hard time keeping things straight, for example the ETC is a horrible event to even look at lists because the format is SO unique and heavily favors the biggest skews possible. Luckily BAO is coming up soon which will be the first big tests for Knights. I would be surprised to see a Knight heavy army win it all, I don't think that's their role competitively. Knights are the ultimate Gatekeepers, they punish you the hardest of any Faction if you show up without the tools to handle them but they crumble to lists that keep them in mind. You can check out my Tournament "Report" to see how that went, a guy with two Shadowswords got 2nd Place because he made a hard read on what people would show up with. At a larger event with more diversity that would have backfired badly.

You actually touched on one of my gripes with the game in that it's so competitively fractured. ITC, Book Missions, Adepticon Missions, ETC, ATC, the list goes on of these hyper-specific tournament packets that vastly change how the game is played and how armies have to be built. I come from Warmachine competitively where there was one format and it was regularly balanced. This made everything easier for TO's, Players, and the publisher. Imagine what a nightmare it must be for Games Workshop to fix problems with all those considerations! Of course they're a bit at fault for refusing to print competitive Missions in Chapter Approved or the Core Rulebook, despite being amazing with AoS Missions.

I agree with you that Chaos has the tools to handle Knights, they can handle anything because they have so many options. The issue I continue to mention is their TAC lists, which is all I care about. A big issue is Chaos lacks valuable Troops compared to Eldar and Imperium. Cultists were hit hard and to make them work now you're either looking at the Alpha Legion Bomb or an Abaddon build, both shadows of what they once were and they weren't setting the world on fire. You can fill out Battalions without issue in Chaos but now Cultists are in the "tax" category where as Guardsmen, Rangers, Scouts, Kabalites, etc. all have actual uses. Valuable Troops like Nurglings force a Demon Detachment which may not work with your ideal composition. Armies that don't pay points tax have consistently done well, even smaller Factions like Tyranids, Orks, and Tau.

I also see a lot of people casually mention "You do x and y and z and goodbye Knight!" but a lot of the time either the math doesn't work out or you're creating a Rube Goldberg machine to kill a model. For example your Demon Prince plan is pretty straight-forward, take a DP with Wings and put one Psychic Power on it. That's not much to ask. It does have to be a Nurgle DP which isn't bad but more options would be nice. One obstacle is delivery, how are we getting that model into melee? If we run at the Knights we're likely dying on the way there so we also need some stuff to screen. This makes the strategy more board dependent, you can use Nurglings but if Terrain is bad they might die before they can deliver the DP. If we Deep Strike then we're hoping on that 50/50 and we may need to remove screens. Even on delivery the average damage output is going to be roughly 6 Wounds (with the Psychic Power only), nowhere near killing a Knight. Demonic Strength pumps it up to ~10-12 Wounds. Now you're dumping all these resources into being able to one-round a Knight and by the time you're done the list is 1000 Points down! (Slight exaggeration). What's going to become quickly apparent is that Knights don't work well alone but when you start adding in Primaris Psykers for Deny the Witch, Custodes or Deathwatch for anti-Infantry, and so on a lot of the compositions people are taking to beat the big boys get a lot rockier.

Right now Imperium and Eldar are both running off multiple over-powered units and abilities, all of which I hope get hit with a bat. Chaos was in the same position, they just happened to get the bat first and worst while running out of Codexes in the pipe. Without Dark Eldar you'd see MUCH less Ynaari/Craftworlds and without Knights/BA/Custodes/Guard shenanigans you'd see MUCH less Imperium. That's my sincere hope for the game by the end of the year, we're so close to a game with great parity and a wide array of options.

Similar to you I'll be sticking to Imperium as they play more the way I want an army to play. I like very hard hitting melee stuff, which Chaos can do but it was requiring too many synergies for my taste. I also love Deathwatch and think they'll come back into the limelight if the meta gets corrected. Eldar has never appealed to me as it's all shooting, even more so with Shining Spears being forced out in the wake of Knights.


All great points. I too played Warmachine for a time (about 2 years post quitting 40k after 6th), warmahordes tourneys though had a habit of bringing the WAAC out of guys; arguing over tenths of an inch for a throw, or someone measuring their control area for too long so they are "pre-measuring". I called Warmahordes quit when I lost a tourney because my opponent, literally, cheesed his way through half turn 2 to get a lock kill; when I caught it called the TO, dude said "Oh well, should have caught it earlier.".... would it have been too much to move 2 models back and replay the turn?

Anyways, I definitely agree we are closest to parity than I have ever seen with 40k, which is nice. Theres a lot more viable builds running around, and its hard to predict. I've also seen some players using a "Mortyzilla" list (GUO's, Morty, Nurglings, more spells and FNP than you can shake a stick at) which seems a lot of fun. I always read your reps because its nice to see others reporting on competitive builds!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/30 20:09:41


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Back from the dead again with a Tournament Battle Report. As per usual I'm a bit details light/pictures light but I try to give an overview of what happened. A bit rough after not playing for two weeks.

Expect more Kill Teams stuff if you're into that, if you aren't then you should be.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/31 13:23:33


Post by: stratigo


you're way underselling tau I think. Stealth suits are gonna be ridiculous with drones. Harleys and maybe deathwatch are stonger, but harleys and deathwatch are, in my estimation, the two strongest kill teams.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/31 15:39:43


Post by: The Prince of Excess


I don't think anyone knows what the strongest is, people are very quick to make predictions (including myself!)

I'm just voicing my first impressions. But no I don't think Tau will be as good as some of the other Factions. Stealth Suits are very good defensively but BS4 Elite Armies feel bad.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/07/31 20:23:39


Post by: stratigo


The combination of maneuverability and the ability to buff shooting through a variety of tactics makes tau very strong.

Harleys just are so maneuverable it is legit insane, and they have universal access to really strong melee and shooting tools and they all charge 3d6, which allows them to dodge what is normally their counter in flamers

Deathwatch just has solid tools all around and the fray cannon is very very strong in the format


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/08/01 16:49:50


Post by: Boss Salvage


Will dive into the new stuff shortly, interested as always in your reports

Annnnd legitimately excited for KT, doing up cultist-heavy Chaos because modeling reasons, but also have a handful of stealth suits in the closet that may be my Filthy Xenos KT. Interested to see how the game picks up locally, plenty of 40k players around these parts, along with Shadespirers and AOS weirdos.

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/08/01 17:19:47


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
Will dive into the new stuff shortly, interested as always in your reports

Annnnd legitimately excited for KT, doing up cultist-heavy Chaos because modeling reasons, but also have a handful of stealth suits in the closet that may be my Filthy Xenos KT. Interested to see how the game picks up locally, plenty of 40k players around these parts, along with Shadespirers and AOS weirdos.

- Salvage


Yup, I'm much more excited for KT than 40K right now. I have a ton of teams available to me but I'm going to try Chaos today, should have a report up of it at some point.

I think keeping KT around means treating it like 40K. I'll be running a League for my local shop and also try to setup monthly tournaments. I hope they push the game that way, which could be happening with Organized Play announcements, as it's just so perfect for competitive play. I haven't delved in enough to be rock-solid on my balance predictions or to find any issues but I have a feeling it's much less than 40K. If anything I haven't seen any models that feel useless, Tau is the closest to that.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/08/03 16:12:59


Post by: stratigo


I am eagerly awaiting kill team reports


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/14 21:05:25


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Oh yeah I should probably come out of my Infinity-induced coma and play some 40K. But 40K sucks right now.....Kill Teams it is!


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/17 13:47:34


Post by: Boss Salvage


Two thoughts as I head into read the KT report:

1) Surprised you're playing Chaos, I sort of believe the chatter about them being weak, though frankly I'm more put off by the lack of options and the lack of 1 CP tactics. Hoping the Chaos team box has some minis / terrain I can use, to justify buying it just for the new tactic cards. Currently playing a CSM-centric crew as I work on a cultist-focused list with new minis.

2) You can't take 2 CSM gunners with special weapons, 1 gunner can have a heavy bolter (or nothing), the other can have a plasma (or melta, flamer). Yep, it's dumb.

- Salvage


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/17 15:19:48


Post by: The Prince of Excess


 Boss Salvage wrote:
Two thoughts as I head into read the KT report:

1) Surprised you're playing Chaos, I sort of believe the chatter about them being weak, though frankly I'm more put off by the lack of options and the lack of 1 CP tactics. Hoping the Chaos team box has some minis / terrain I can use, to justify buying it just for the new tactic cards. Currently playing a CSM-centric crew as I work on a cultist-focused list with new minis.

2) You can't take 2 CSM gunners with special weapons, 1 gunner can have a heavy bolter (or nothing), the other can have a plasma (or melta, flamer). Yep, it's dumb.

- Salvage



*sadface* I was just playing them because I have reasonably close models, I've played a lot of other Factions as well. Not being able to have two Plasma is a bummer though. I don't think Chaos is as bad as they look on paper but they probably aren't great either. Hopefully I'll learn more as I give the system more time. I don't have much desire to play the normal extreme Plasma-spam lists and they're fairly one-dimensional.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/17 15:25:23


Post by: stratigo


You can play the new rogue traders they're *snrk* great. Not a plasma gun in sight. (Actually they're pretty trash, but those models sure are pretty).

Death guard and harlies are less reliant on plasma, and death guard are your super defensive option, while harlies are the super finesse option.

Deathwatch makes good jack of all trades with good shooting and good combat.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/28 19:07:28


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Newest and likely last pure piece of Warhammer 40K content is up. As described I will be quitting Competitive 40K for the foreseeable future, if you care why I detail that at the end.

Otherwise you can see my thoughts on the FAQ, and the Kill Team FAQ. From now now on I will be doing Kill Team content and continuing with Infinity for those who enjoy that game.

Thanks for all the support everyone. Hopefully it was an enjoyable read.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/29 02:10:18


Post by: Lord of Nonsensical Crap


I read your post, and agree with the vast majority of your points-- primarily that GW took heavy-handed approach to the issue of Smash Captains. As far as I see it, assault armies in general have been hurt simply because of the transgressions/cheese factor of one unit now. And I agree, quite often I wonder what, if any, playtesting GW for each FAQ, and how that aligns with how experienced players will use/abuse the rules.

As much as it saddens me to see you drift further away from 40k, I am excited by the prospect of more Kill Team and Infinity content-- I personally have usually tried to steer away from the competitive/tourney side of 40k for similar reasons. I wonder, though, you specifically stated you're staying away from competitive 40k: does that mean you remain open to the possibility of games with casual lists against players you know? (Your definition of a 'casual' list may vary from mine)


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/29 03:32:36


Post by: Thantos Kalev


I greatly enjoyed your 40k content over the past year, and will miss reading it....for at least the near future, I would wager, as this game has a funny way of sucking one back in. Until then, I will drop in and keep up on your Kill Team posts, so please keep them coming.


Tides of Destruction Battle Reports | Matched Play Kill Teams | Updated as of 9/28/18 @ 2018/09/29 05:48:09


Post by: The Prince of Excess


Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
I read your post, and agree with the vast majority of your points-- primarily that GW took heavy-handed approach to the issue of Smash Captains. As far as I see it, assault armies in general have been hurt simply because of the transgressions/cheese factor of one unit now. And I agree, quite often I wonder what, if any, playtesting GW for each FAQ, and how that aligns with how experienced players will use/abuse the rules.

As much as it saddens me to see you drift further away from 40k, I am excited by the prospect of more Kill Team and Infinity content-- I personally have usually tried to steer away from the competitive/tourney side of 40k for similar reasons. I wonder, though, you specifically stated you're staying away from competitive 40k: does that mean you remain open to the possibility of games with casual lists against players you know? (Your definition of a 'casual' list may vary from mine)


As I said, GW seems like a superhero just learning their powers. They hit super hard when a delicate touch would do, and vice versa. I know they playtest with at least the ITC Guys and some other top players, they've spoken about this before, but those players have hinted that feedback is often ignored. I'm assuming they're under very strong NDAs and in some cases have business dealings with GW so they can't say as much as they want but that's neither here nor there.It's just the fact that I no longer have faith in a design team to make a game that is fit for me to enjoy and I do not see any direction for the game that gives me positive vibes. I've never enjoyed gunlines, I think it's boring in any game. There are so many obstacles to avoiding that style besides the actual core mechanics, Missions usually favor shooting armies, and many stores and players have no idea what a proper table should look like even if they have access to the right terrain.

It's also disheartening when people try to discuss these issues online, or even in person. Blind fandom is not remotely new but it has never made anything better. Even among my locals whenever I have negative things to say about the game, which is about as often as I praise it, I'm told to go play something else or that the game isn't for me. Some of that stuff is personal but it adds onto the pile.

I've been pushing Kill Teams very hard in my area and our meta for other games is strong. I have noticed a drastic drop off in 40K players though, it seems like a lot more younger people are playing it but a lot of the competitive players have drifted away except the guys who are extremely hardcore. No idea if that's caused by anything or not but it's another knock against the game. At the end of the day it is what it is though. To answer your question, yes I'm open to casual games. Most of my army is converted from Skaven models so it would be very hard to offload anyways and I really do think 40K should just be left as a friendly, beer and pretzels kind of experience this Edition. There would just have to be so many changes to the game to suck me back in for this edition that I will put it in the unlikely category.