Didn't see a thread for this, so decided to make one.
What are your current and upcoming Primaris tactics? By that, I mean just Primaris models, Primaris vehicles, and maybe some support vehicles.
One big thing for me is how does a Primaris army only deal with a lot of vehicles? Hellblasters can be a soft vehicle counter, but will be shot to all heck the first turn.
The redemptor plasma cannon seems good, but a little unpredictable.
Plasma Inceptors is a nice way to hit vehicles anywhere.
Seems allot of the units received a discount in the new Codex. Intercessors and Reivers actually seem worth taking.
The Repulser looks interesting I clocks in around 340 I think with all the big guns....seems pricey with on a 3+ save. However no othe choice for moving Primaris Marines I guess.
The Hellblasters will be good anti tank in a repulsor, get them in doubletap range, 20 shots overcharged will make anything disappear. Id wager it is just as strong as a squad of fire dragons in a Serpent, maybe stronger. Position the Repulsor sideways to block line of sight to your hellblasters. Next turn, get back in the Repulsor, rinse and repeat. Welcome to Eldar 101, only this time it applies to Primaris Space Marines.
Hellblasters are mandatory if you're playing Primaris. Get them a reroll 1s and they will destroy. I did some ebaying and got 3 squads of 5 hellblasters and 4 squads of 5 riflemen.
For my real anti-vehicle I plan on getting 2 repulsor tanks with the lascannon loadouts. Also 1 redemptor with the onslaught gatling guns.
What about reivers, en masse? 40-50 (or more) appearing 9 inches away turn 1 are going to cause problems. With black templar or raven guard tactics to help with the charge or ambush. That's 80-100 wounds wherever you want them. At 1500+ brackets it also leaves plenty of room for HQ's, ranged units, or just more melee. I think it could be strong with the right tweaking and list.
portugus wrote: Hellblasters are mandatory if you're playing Primaris. Get them a reroll 1s and they will destroy. I did some ebaying and got 3 squads of 5 hellblasters and 4 squads of 5 riflemen.
For my real anti-vehicle I plan on getting 2 repulsor tanks with the lascannon loadouts. Also 1 redemptor with the onslaught gatling guns.
I personally dislike the Repulsor kitted out with the Lascannon and Las-talon. Primarily because its clocking in at around 340-350 points. T8, 16W, 3+ Save, that's allot of points! It also paints a giant red bullseye on it.
For a fraction over 300 points you can have a Repulsor that shreds infantry and light vehicles. Then have your dedicated anti vehicle on other units which then forces the opposition to make tough choices when targeting their heavy weapons. I think this is why I like the LR Crusader over the regular LR, its cheaper, puts out good firepower and is hard to kill but not always the priority target. Typically, I have found the moment something has Lascannons or equivalent guns it becomes a high priority target. I would rather force my opponent to either shoot the Repulsor and risk getting blown up by Predators or trade leaving a big hard to deal with Repulsor flying around mulching infantry and getting objectives....when you make them one target it becomes to much of an easy choice.
I agree about the repulsor points cost, I already have a las pred I'll use but trying to stay just primaris doesn't give you many options for anti tank so far. Maybe keep them as cheap as possible and use the thing that gives -1 to hit if you don't shoot. Also it gets PotMS which lets it move and shoot without penalty. I'll end up using magnets and trying multiple types.
What about Nids turn 1 charging? Aggressors/reivers? Do reivers put out enough wounds to stop gaunts?
I was wondering what everyone thinks which Chapter Tactics would fit a Primaris only army? I'm leaning towards Slamanders, Raven Guard or Ultrasmurfs, but I'm having a hard time choosing.
I just took a long look at the codex and there's more AT than I realized right now.
Inceptors with Plasma Exterminators are mid-level AT stats, and the ability to drop anywhere makes them quite potent. Sadly, because they're dropping in they most likely won't get the benefit of rerolling 1s.
Likewise, Hellblasters with the heavy variant also do a similar amount of damage. They're more likely to have a captain behind them to reroll damage. However, because they're on the table, and people know how deadly they are compared to everything else, they get focused down hard.
I think repulsors probably are key to a primaris-only army. They are your only lascannons, and lascannons are great.
Fielding several redemptors is also a valid plan. Dreadnought ccws do good work. I personally prefer contemptors, but redemptors are good all-rounders.
Chapter Tactics and Strategems from my own experience so far, (testing them each week on our game nights - we are playing low 40 point matches to get good at the flow of 8th and that we only have 3 hours to play with 2 player teams):
Ultramarines =
Chapter Tactics: Situational for half of it. Leadership hasn't been an issue yet, but the +1 is always nice. Fallback and shoot at -1 is great......when it happens. I think I will see more use from this when I have both of my Aggressors.
Strategems:
I love the Ultramarine reroll 1's for and Infantry or Bike unit anywhere on the board. This has been my favorite use of 1 Command Point so far.
I am trying out Raven Guard next week. My Aggressors will love Strike from Shadows Strategem and all will love the -1 to hit Chapter Tactics.
I have played a solid 15 games now with primaris only. Supporting units have been Roboute, Fire Raptor and Sicarian. With more releases though ive moved away from Fire Raptor and Sicarian to get a better feel. Heres my thoughts so far on all the units...
First, over all statements.
1. They are mediocre overall. For the brand new army/sub army from GW and being their poster boys, very little stood out as amazing.
2. Currently, untramarines are really the only way to go if you do pure primaris. Roboute is to good not to have and the benefit he gives your army is worth every point. Its a major crutch, as all my games ive had ot use him to have a chance of winning. He wont be on the following list, simply, because everyone whos ever seen him knows hes an auto include.
3. Wish we got a named character. A little disappointed since dark Imperium Novel named a bunch. Maybe some day!
1. Primaris Captian - Cheap, but lackluster. Very support with his weapon. Ive never taken him ever as I don't think hes worth it
2. Gravis Armor Captian - Better then the previous. More frontlines and deadlier in CC. In small games hes my go to guy. Large games 2k+ never use him
3. Primaris Libarian - Solid. I always run 2 of these in my lists of 2k as I don't feel you get much for anymore then that and they help deal out buffs and smite. Plus you need anti psykers
4. Primaris Chaplain - Pure theory craft, but him with reivers in a repulsor is the only reason I see on taking him. That's my plan for this weekend. So will see how he does
5. Primaris Lieutenants - Again, good in small games. Also very cheap. Anything 2k I keep HQ to a min of 2 libarians, so I don't take these guys
6. Intercessors - Our only troop. Very solid. I run 3 10 mans and break them into combat squads. Helps with deployment activations on going first, and the grenade launcher is auto include. Best configuration is the Rifle. Stalker is bad once they get close or you need to move. They will need to move for objectives, and then they will most likely be in rapid fire range, making it just better then auto bolt rifle.
7. Primaris Ancient. for 69 points, hes great on ability alone. Hes always near my aggressors or hellblasters so I can be far more reckless and get every ounce out of them when they drop. I always take 2
8. Apothacary - again not released yet, but I plan to stick one near Hellblasters to make more when they blow themselves up. also very cheap unit
9 . Reivers - Personally, I find them to be the worst out of all the releases. They are pretty horrible. If they could shoot the grendade at a squad within 9 or have -1 ap on knives id say they are ok, but they are just worse intercessors. I will still try them with repulsor and chap to get a final verdict on my end
10. Aggressor - IMO the best thing they got. These little tubby murder men are great. and by great, I mean you should only ever take the bolters and missiles on them. The flamers are trash. Move advance no penalty and double shot if done move. Also 43 points each so pretty cheap for the amount of shots they bring. A must. I use 6
11. Redemptor - Meh. I see no reason for the plasma. Best config is dakka version. If it has T8 or 2+ or 2+ to hit it would be great. Its just a lot of heavy bolter shots at shorter range then a heavy bolter. Usually has a target on its back so doesent last long. I want to like it as I own 2 but only used just 1 as its been disappointing every time, even with rerolls.
12. Interceptors - Finally useable with the points decrease. HB is the only way to go. Plasma is insane expensive and not worth it, you loose a guy you become hugely less effective then HB. Best use I find is Drop em near roboute mid field and shoot away. If your opponent leaves say dark reapers unguarded or some other unit like that in the back, then go after them, otherwise they are better mid field.
13. Hellblasters - One of our only AT weapons. A must take. Lots of debate on what one is best. Ive seen the math but its very situational. This is again from a UM player with robby, but I feel the best is if you want a firebase, Heavy, or if you are moving take rapid fire. Assault doesent have the punch to make it 3s to wound, which makes a big difference when most things wont get a save.
14. Repulsor - I know las cannons are good, but this is a gunboat, or should I say a dakka boat. For 260 some points, it pumps out 24 heaby bolter shots and 5d6 bolt shots. Its a bad transport as its to expensive for that role, so I only see taking 1 ever. Best used with reivers I think with chap (not to beat that dead horse anymore). Anything else is fine not in a transport. It flys, so cant be locked down. Will always be shooting max dakka.
So like I said, over all mediocre. Nothing to write home about Some good units but mostly meh. A few improvements could have made them shine. Maybe will see a primaris codex one day. What they really need is a full on tank, transport, and a flyer.
I'll be using 2 troops and one of everything else, as focused on fast assault as possible. Auto boltguns, assault plasma incinerators, and definitely trying a captain in mkx and a 4 man aggressor squad in repulsor.
I like the Repulsor for 299 points - you get a las talon ( 4 pts more than the heavy onslaught so its a no brainer, we need anti tank ), twin heavy bolter, onslaught gatling, heavy stubber, 2 storm bolters, icarus rocket pod, and keep the auto launchers in case you need them.
Transporting 10 hellblasters with the rapid fire gun will be perfect. get them in 15 inch range and destroy a priority target or 2.
Crusaderobr wrote: I like the Repulsor for 299 points - you get a las talon ( 4 pts more than the heavy onslaught so its a no brainer, we need anti tank ), twin heavy bolter, onslaught gatling, heavy stubber, 2 storm bolters, icarus rocket pod, and keep the auto launchers in case you need them.
Transporting 10 hellblasters with the rapid fire gun will be perfect. get them in 15 inch range and destroy a priority target or 2.
If i was doing a pure primarus army id probably be using the repulsors as my anti tank.
anti heavy infantry can go to the hellblasters no issues. plasma inceptors though i dont like. they are far to pricy for a drop plasma. id stick them as the anti infantry dakka.
Can Primaris go foot slogging? I was thinking doing 2 battalions with 2 HQ's and three Intercessor squads, Roboute and trying to get some hellblasters in there?
I would like to squeeze in the repulsors, but the cost is limiting.
So I was thinking :
Captain w/auto, power sword
Primaris LT Auto
2x5 intercessors with Bolt rifles, aux grenades, power sword
1x5 intercessors with auto (mainly for rule of cool) aux grenade, power sword
Another of the same but change the Lt to the power sword load-out
Then I was thinking of throwing in a Primaris ancient and Primaris Librarian.
But I am not sure where to take the list, ultimately I would like to throw in Guilliam and some hellblasters. Just not sure which ones.
I was also thinking of holding off Guilliam for 2500 pat games and putting bare bones repulsors loaded up with 5 auto intercessors and 5 auto hellblasters? Move in, jump out within range and blast away??
Chaplain Pallantide wrote: Can Primaris go foot slogging? I was thinking doing 2 battalions with 2 HQ's and three Intercessor squads, Roboute and trying to get some hellblasters in there?
I would like to squeeze in the repulsors, but the cost is limiting.
So I was thinking :
Captain w/auto, power sword
Primaris LT Auto
2x5 intercessors with Bolt rifles, aux grenades, power sword
1x5 intercessors with auto (mainly for rule of cool) aux grenade, power sword
Another of the same but change the Lt to the power sword load-out
Then I was thinking of throwing in a Primaris ancient and Primaris Librarian.
But I am not sure where to take the list, ultimately I would like to throw in Guilliam and some hellblasters. Just not sure which ones.
I was also thinking of holding off Guilliam for 2500 pat games and putting bare bones repulsors loaded up with 5 auto intercessors and 5 auto hellblasters? Move in, jump out within range and blast away??
Thoughts?
Looks like a list with only 15 bodies for troops that foot slogs. If I were your opponent, I'd just shoot them down and claim some objectives with my own troops which will have a transport for better protection and mobility
Chaplain Pallantide wrote: 30 intercessors, I would be using 2 battalions each containing 15 intercessors
I don't know how you play, if ITC deployment rules where first done gets +1 or first done gets auto go first. Either way you have to many deployments. Why 2 Battalions? You really need that many command points? If you are using Roboute then you get CP back on a 5+. Should stick with 1 Battalion, and combat squad your guys when deploying. Also, while its nice to get the option, I see no reason to take power swords for sergeants. They are objective holders, not CC. If in CC by a dedicated unit, they are screwed anyways.
IMO, I think the best use for Repulsor is dakka boat. It as a dedicated anti tank makes it even a higher target. Hellblasters are AT. Few ways to do it. Can either have a firebase with Rob in the back with heavy hellblasters and perhaps a Sicarian/Fire Raptor or be more advancing with sticking 10 In a repulsor and driving it into double tap with his rerolls. You do need to keep an ancient around them though. If the Repulsor is a dakkaboat it can mulch a lot of infantry in the thick of the enemy to clear out threats like Las squads or melta squads.
Well it wouldnt be a Primaris army with girlyman in it would it
and the extra CP would be nice for non smurf armies.
Personally would limit down the troops and just go for more ranged dakka
this list is going to have major trouble with enemy tanks.
if you plan on doing only primarus then you will probably want at least one repulsive as las cannons are the only real anti tank choice that army has so far.
Gravis Captain - Average so far. I haven't been in a situation where he is better than a Lieutenant.
Primaris Captain - Same as above, (both have better to hit of course)
Primaris Lieutenant - My favorite so far. Perfect cost and abilities....can they swap for MC Stalker Rifle?
Intercessors - Love the models of course....I use only one or two squads as I am typically using a Vanguard Detachment. No complaints other than the standard fact that they must footslog.
Redemptor - is being delivered today....so looking forward to something that will be awesome in Casual, but understandably is not as good in Tourney play.
Aggressors - almost too OP, but once the others get used to it they will fallback to just "Very Good".
Hellblasters - My only punch you in the face unit, (I don't have the Repulsor and the Redemptor isn't here yet. Haven't tried an Ancient or Apothecary with them yet.
Inceptors - I love em and they are super effective in Casual. I don't use anything but the Assault Bolters on them.
CaptainSomas wrote: I was wondering what everyone thinks which Chapter Tactics would fit a Primaris only army? I'm leaning towards Slamanders, Raven Guard or Ultrasmurfs, but I'm having a hard time choosing.
IF Intercessors in cover (or set up behind an Imperial Defence Line) are really, really difficult to move if supported by that Warlord Trait. The Stratagem seems a little weak, but with a big unit of Aggressors it could be impactful.
Do you think power swords on intercessor sergeants are worth it? I'm really tight on point and would have to trim somewhere for it.
I feel like there'd be times you're really glad you have them, but not sure.
How often do your intercessors get into close combat with stuff that a power sword helps against?
With the Intercessor's great range, I don't think they'll need the sword. But if your opponent is keen on taking a lot of assault marines you might need it just for coverage.
It's probably worth more if you take the auto bolt rifles and move closer to the enemy.
Danny slag wrote: Do you think power swords on intercessor sergeants are worth it? I'm really tight on point and would have to trim somewhere for it.
I feel like there'd be times you're really glad you have them, but not sure.
the extra attack is more valuable vs say chucking it on a normal marine sarge. but its a situation where its not really that worth it depending on how you are using them. if they get into combat alot as mentioned than its worth it. otherwise its points that are sitting on the table doing nothing.
I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Powerswords are worthless on intercessors, regardless of points. It does add up and it may matter when list building. If your intercessors are in CC, its cause you got charged. They should never be charging as their double tap is vastly better.
10 Mans as a beatstick is also a terrible idea, as why not just take reivers for more CC ability. They are not beatsticks. All the "puny" enemies you listed have vastly better CC options to shred marines to nothing then primaris has...
Anyways here is my list I plan to do Friday for Konor Campaign. Not sure on mission as its currently being changed/uploaded but I plan to try out some new stuff
Game is 2k points
HQ:
Primaris Chaplain - Rides in Repulsor
Primaris Libarian - Might of Heroes, Physic Fortress - Rides in Repulsior
Idea (again might vastly change based on konor mission) is to be aggressive. Intercessors hold the flank , repulsor drives up, unloads hopefully with Robby in range for rerolls. Hellblasters follow him up, unloading on any heavy armor. Second turn, jump the libby, chap, and reivers out. Cast Might of heroes on Robby, Fortress on who's nearest to the physkers.. Grenade then charge with chap and hopefully murder the unit. I fully expect them to disappoint, but figure its worth a try to get a verdict on the reivers.
Vertrucio wrote: How often do your intercessors get into close combat with stuff that a power sword helps against?
With the Intercessor's great range, I don't think they'll need the sword. But if your opponent is keen on taking a lot of assault marines you might need it just for coverage.
It's probably worth more if you take the auto bolt rifles and move closer to the enemy.
Normally the enemy is charging me - and intercessors are actually decent in CC with 2 attacks each. Giving the sarge a power weapon really boost their potential in CC.
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Powerswords are worthless on intercessors, regardless of points. It does add up and it may matter when list building. If your intercessors are in CC, its cause you got charged. They should never be charging as their double tap is vastly better.
10 Mans as a beatstick is also a terrible idea, as why not just take reivers for more CC ability. They are not beatsticks. All the "puny" enemies you listed have vastly better CC options to shred marines to nothing then primaris has...
Anyways here is my list I plan to do Friday for Konor Campaign. Not sure on mission as its currently being changed/uploaded but I plan to try out some new stuff
Game is 2k points
HQ:
Primaris Chaplain - Rides in Repulsor
Primaris Libarian - Might of Heroes, Physic Fortress - Rides in Repulsior
Idea (again might vastly change based on konor mission) is to be aggressive. Intercessors hold the flank , repulsor drives up, unloads hopefully with Robby in range for rerolls. Hellblasters follow him up, unloading on any heavy armor. Second turn, jump the libby, chap, and reivers out. Cast Might of heroes on Robby, Fortress on who's nearest to the physkers.. Grenade then charge with chap and hopefully murder the unit. I fully expect them to disappoint, but figure its worth a try to get a verdict on the reivers.
I feel you may have trouble with heavy armour, but that's just a hunch. Where are your Aggressors during this? Just sitting back letting those power fists and that mobility go to waste? Lots of good dakka there, though.
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Reapers might do that a little bit better. Even if you give them carbines they are still cheaper - have better bolter pistols - and they have the same stat line.
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Powerswords are worthless on intercessors, regardless of points. It does add up and it may matter when list building. If your intercessors are in CC, its cause you got charged. They should never be charging as their double tap is vastly better.
10 Mans as a beatstick is also a terrible idea, as why not just take reivers for more CC ability. They are not beatsticks. All the "puny" enemies you listed have vastly better CC options to shred marines to nothing then primaris has...
Anyways here is my list I plan to do Friday for Konor Campaign. Not sure on mission as its currently being changed/uploaded but I plan to try out some new stuff
Game is 2k points
HQ:
Primaris Chaplain - Rides in Repulsor
Primaris Libarian - Might of Heroes, Physic Fortress - Rides in Repulsior
Idea (again might vastly change based on konor mission) is to be aggressive. Intercessors hold the flank , repulsor drives up, unloads hopefully with Robby in range for rerolls. Hellblasters follow him up, unloading on any heavy armor. Second turn, jump the libby, chap, and reivers out. Cast Might of heroes on Robby, Fortress on who's nearest to the physkers.. Grenade then charge with chap and hopefully murder the unit. I fully expect them to disappoint, but figure its worth a try to get a verdict on the reivers.
I feel you may have trouble with heavy armour, but that's just a hunch. Where are your Aggressors during this? Just sitting back letting those power fists and that mobility go to waste? Lots of good dakka there, though.
They are waddling up near robby aswell, advancing when they can til they get to around the enter of the table in cover then sitting for double dakka.
Usually yea a lot of armor might be an issue. Local meta though seems to be more in the take mass infantry as its more durable then a lot of tanks for the same thing and doesent degrade. My nurgle opponent for the next mission takes a lot of heavy weapon teams so hoping the mass amount of small arms can shred through anything to dangerous
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Reapers might do that a little bit better. Even if you give them carbines they are still cheaper - have better bolter pistols - and they have the same stat line.
...but no power swords. Otherwise, that's a very good point.
I'm not sure I agree that their weapons are better actually. Bolt rifles obviously outclass heavy bolt pistols at any range, and bolt carbines at most ranges.
Reivers with bolt carbines are clearly better than intercessors with assault bolters though. 3 points cheaper and several extra abilities. Carbine reivers look to me like a pretty good unit all-round, though I do like the -1AP of bolt rifles, and the auxiliary grenade launchers.
str00dles1 wrote: Powerswords are worthless on intercessors, regardless of points. It does add up and it may matter when list building. If your intercessors are in CC, its cause you got charged. They should never be charging as their double tap is vastly better.
10 Mans as a beatstick is also a terrible idea, as why not just take reivers for more CC ability. They are not beatsticks. All the "puny" enemies you listed have vastly better CC options to shred marines to nothing then primaris has...
Nope. If my intercessors are in combat and I charged, then it means that they charged something. Often, I'll do this to prevent them from charging me.
There's nothing at all stopping me double-tapping something with my bolt rifles and then charging it.
I deliberately listed a bunch of units that you'd expect to beat Primaris marines in combat, but which may well fail to do so. Consider bloodletters, for example. They do huge damage on the charge but have only T3, a 5++ and one wound. Do you wait and let them charge you, or do you shoot them, charge in, strike first with 21 S4 attacks and kill 6 of them before they attack? Bloodletters cost slightly under 50% of the price of primaris. If you get to rapid fire at 15" away, then again before you charge in, you'll have a decent chance of killing about two bloodletters for each primaris marine before they get to attack.
Chaos marines flat out lose to Primaris in cc, point for point, with the possible exception of berzerkers and other specialised assault units. Plague marines are a joke, costing more than intercessors. Charging rubric marines will prevent them from firing their horrible bolters (though is not advised against the ones with flamers, except from outside their range).
Often, after you fire at a unit there will only be a few guys left. But they will always tend to include the plasma gun, sergeant with combi-bolter and so on. By charging in you can finish those guys off, or at least lock them in combat so they can't shoot you in their turn.
Charging things with intercessors is not always going to be a good idea. Sometimes there will be scary things nearby that will counterattack. Sometimes you're on an objective... but sometimes the enemy are. The 10-man unit idea is just something I'm toying with. Arguably two 5-man squads would be better, not least because each would come with a sergeant with power sword. A unit of auto-bolter reivers does sound like something I ought to seriously consider taking.
If I'm reading this correctly, the Power Sword replaces the Sergeant's gun, right?
Reivers with combat knives are just brutal. I'm hoping GW gets around to creating those Warmachine style "weapon attachment" packs I suspect they'll be doing sooner than later.
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Reapers might do that a little bit better. Even if you give them carbines they are still cheaper - have better bolter pistols - and they have the same stat line.
My thinking on the power sword thing is mainly for facing off against the often played tau, but more broadly against any gun line match ups in a TAC list. Can't really out gun line some of them, might be better to play super aggressive at that point. Or when taking a charge to dish out a bit more damage.
This really only applies if you don't know who you're going to be up against ahead of time and just looking for a game. I haven't tried it, so wondering if it makes enough of a difference to kitbash my three half assembled intercessor squad sergeants swords.
Unfortunately in the case of the list I've been painting up those 12 points would mean having to drop a CCW/assault cannon dred to something like a plasma/missile dred. It's pleasantly surprising how tight the point values seem so far in 8th, usually different options add up to very similar points if not exactly so it's easier to make modular lists.
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Reapers might do that a little bit better. Even if you give them carbines they are still cheaper - have better bolter pistols - and they have the same stat line.
My thinking on the power sword thing is mainly for facing off against the often played tau, but more broadly against any gun line match ups in a TAC list. Can't really out gun line some of them, might be better to play super aggressive at that point. Or when taking a charge to dish out a bit more damage.
This really only applies if you don't know who you're going to be up against ahead of time and just looking for a game. I haven't tried it, so wondering if it makes enough of a difference to kitbash my three half assembled intercessor squad sergeants swords.
Unfortunately in the case of the list I've been painting up those 12 points would mean having to drop a CCW/assault cannon dred to something like a plasma/missile dred. It's pleasantly surprising how tight the point values seem so far in 8th, usually different options add up to very similar points if not exactly so it's easier to make modular lists.
Good to hear both of these opinions, thanks
First thing: I checked and the sergeant can definitely just take a power sword. It doesn't replace anything.
I play Tau as well, and honestly they are not who I was thinking of in relation to the intercessor power sword. If intercessors make contact with Tau then the Tau will be crushed, regardless of the sword. Or they'll be big suits that ignore anything less than power fists, then hop away and shoot you.
Instead, I'm talking about using Intercessors to beat up other people's infantry. My point is that intercessors' 2 S4 attacks are very like the 2 S4 attacks that an assault marine gets. By not using them, you lose out on a substantial part of the unit's value.
With or without the power sword, there will be times when it's a good idea to charge things with intercessors. My experience is that they do better than you'd think against many opponents, thanks to their durability and 2 attacks.
Finally, try and fit in a contemptor if you can instead of a normal dread. I realise neither is primaris, but contemtors are far superior to normal dreads, in my experience. That would require chopping your list around loads, so don't sweat if it's not possible.
Raven Guard are the best Chapter for Primaris. Despite their 2 wounds and sometimes T5 Primaris models still die quick. Lots of multi dmg weapons out there. Primaris marines need something to protect them and facilitate an alpha. The repulsor is super expensive and in an all Primaris list you wont be left with much else after a couple of those with a couple of full units.Raven Guard provide both.
**this detachment forms the fire base and hunker down in cover while benefiting from the raven guard chapter tactic. Depending on the enemy, lieutenant may run up to give the reroll benefit to the hellblasters when they come down**
Vanguard Detachment
Shrike
Primaris Ancient w/ Banner of the Emperor Ascendent
Primaris Apothecary
Primaris Apothecary
**this detachment is all about the alpha. Ancient and apothecaries deploy normally and when the hellblasters are ready to come down, they run up to lend assistance**
murph87 wrote: Raven Guard are the best Chapter for Primaris. Despite their 2 wounds and sometimes T5 Primaris models still die quick. Lots of multi dmg weapons out there. Primaris marines need something to protect them and facilitate an alpha. The repulsor is super expensive and in an all Primaris list you wont be left with much else after a couple of those with a couple of full units.Raven Guard provide both.
**this detachment forms the fire base and hunker down in cover while benefiting from the raven guard chapter tactic. Depending on the enemy, lieutenant may run up to give the reroll benefit to the hellblasters when they come down**
Vanguard Detachment
Shrike
Primaris Ancient w/ Banner of the Emperor Ascendent
Primaris Apothecary
Primaris Apothecary
**this detachment is all about the alpha. Ancient and apothecaries deploy normally and when the hellblasters are ready to come down, they run up to lend assistance**
I think you need another troops choice to hit the Battalion requirement, right?
I also want to bring up that an IF gunline is pretty resilient as well. They get the benefit of cover when others do not while the Warlord trait means you're stuck in there even deeper for anything that isn't relatively immobile. While you're plinking those units from range as if they're out in the open, you can drop some Reivers or challenge with some Aggressors to move the carnage upfield. Stick some Intercessors and Hellblasters next to that Ancient in an Imperial Defence Line and you're benefiting from +2 LD to basically eliminate morale issues if they do try and focus you down. Overcharge away - if you do end up blowing yourself up, the Ancient will help secure another extra shot. One of the Apothecaries keeps the show going. If they're trying to focus on shifting that core, they'll need to put a heavy focus on it, which means less hate for anything else.
Very similar to RGCT in strat, but I think a bit more resilient. -1 to hit on a slow firing weapon is a big deal, but less impactful for something that's designed to munch through infantry by firing a boatload of shots. While RG helps you for both, IF helps you by hard countering the stuff your Primaris marines are much more likely to be shot with, which means you now have a much wider array of threats and you're forcing your enemy to prioritize targets with weapons that they otherwise wouldn't use.
Mandragola wrote: I think the power sword on intercessors is an auto-take. I'd never leave home without it.
The cost is negligible and it makes a real difference. Intercessors are in fact a pretty decent assault unit. Having two attacks and two wounds mean they are actually able to hold their own against even some dedicated assault units. I recently had a squad of 5 and my librarian get charged by 9 of seekers of slaanesh, and it was my guys who were standing at the end. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and the seekers only having a 5++ meant that I did them quite a lot of wounds.
As it happens the power sword wouldn't have helped much there. It will do much more against people in power armour.
I'm actually thinking of running my intercessors in squads of 10. It would give me the option of using them as a beatstick against puny enemies, like eldar, daemons, chaos marines and the like. I suppose I'd have to steer clear of characters, or have my contemptors squish them.
Reapers might do that a little bit better. Even if you give them carbines they are still cheaper - have better bolter pistols - and they have the same stat line.
My thinking on the power sword thing is mainly for facing off against the often played tau, but more broadly against any gun line match ups in a TAC list. Can't really out gun line some of them, might be better to play super aggressive at that point. Or when taking a charge to dish out a bit more damage.
This really only applies if you don't know who you're going to be up against ahead of time and just looking for a game. I haven't tried it, so wondering if it makes enough of a difference to kitbash my three half assembled intercessor squad sergeants swords.
Unfortunately in the case of the list I've been painting up those 12 points would mean having to drop a CCW/assault cannon dred to something like a plasma/missile dred. It's pleasantly surprising how tight the point values seem so far in 8th, usually different options add up to very similar points if not exactly so it's easier to make modular lists.
Good to hear both of these opinions, thanks
First thing: I checked and the sergeant can definitely just take a power sword. It doesn't replace anything.
I play Tau as well, and honestly they are not who I was thinking of in relation to the intercessor power sword. If intercessors make contact with Tau then the Tau will be crushed, regardless of the sword. Or they'll be big suits that ignore anything less than power fists, then hop away and shoot you.
Instead, I'm talking about using Intercessors to beat up other people's infantry. My point is that intercessors' 2 S4 attacks are very like the 2 S4 attacks that an assault marine gets. By not using them, you lose out on a substantial part of the unit's value.
With or without the power sword, there will be times when it's a good idea to charge things with intercessors. My experience is that they do better than you'd think against many opponents, thanks to their durability and 2 attacks.
Finally, try and fit in a contemptor if you can instead of a normal dread. I realise neither is primaris, but contemtors are far superior to normal dreads, in my experience. That would require chopping your list around loads, so don't sweat if it's not possible.
Thank you for the advice. I hadn't really looked at the contemptor yet, but it does look juicy now. I feel like dreads don't look out of place in an all primaris army so I'm all good with that. They also seem to fill a needed AT role.
murph87 wrote: Raven Guard are the best Chapter for Primaris.
Best? No. They are good.
Ultramarines still hold that just because of Roboute. Til another primarch comes out, I don't see that changing.
On another note, I did try out my Repulsor with 8 Reivers CC with Libby and Chaplain in it.
Repulsor was smited to death pretty quickly. Got 2 turns of dakka before dead. It would have lasted a ton longer if I could make had the libby outside, casting Fortress and MoH on it. So was a learning lesson. Otherwise it did ok. Still 300 points for 24 HB shots and 5d6 bolter shots. It was near roboute so I guess that's only reason it did ok. Reivers charged, stunning a havoc squad with chaplain. 9 guys vs 5 havoc marines and didn't kill them. I get people say they are cheap objective takers with gravchutes, but id rather have intercessors for the bolt rifle, better gun and the -1 AP is really needed. Unless they somehow give reivers -1 AP on blades, I see no reason to ever bring them in a list again. After that though, the primaris chaplain kicked some butt and murdered a lot.
CT: Ravenguard, ultras don't really do much considering this is a very long range kitey army. The only other ones worth looking at are maaaaybeeee if. Also the ravenguard Strategem is the best way to use agressors.(Assumes no girlyman).
Units:
Hellblasters: mandatory
Repulsor: 1 mandatory, only use it as a transport to go first. Otherwise you're really just wasting time you could be shooting.
Redemptor: Solid, best with the ravenguard CT Intercessors: give em stalkers and pretend they're snipers, again best with RG.
Inceptors: meh, very pricey for a one and done. Depends on the list, benefit most from IF and least from UM.
Aggressors: brutal with low drops so you can use the RG strat to deepstrike. Otherwise pack them into repulsors. Probably always want to use the 18" range guns which is a bit sad.
Reivers: Yawn.
Lietenant: Solid bit boring, burning blade if you can spare it.
Gravis captain: Slow, pricey, armor indomitus if you can spare it.
Librarian: Nullzone is awesome for the -4 plasma, good luck actually getting it off somewhere it matters.
Apoth: great, synergizes with ancient.
Ancient: Almost mandatory, take standard every time.
Chaplain: Yeah right, no thanks, pass.
If you do ravenguard Shrike is amazing for inceptors, aggressors, or even you're gunline redemptors/repulsors.
I think salamanders are underrated. Their characters and dreadnoughts in particular are excellent. It's a good ct for plasma squads too.
I don't think the ravenguard ct does all that much for redemptprs, as they will usually want to be near the enemy.
I think there's a use for all of the CTs. The ravenguard one certainly seems best straight off, but it does very little against an assault rushing army. Ultramarines are kind of the opposite - perfect for the counter-punch. Salamanders and iron hands have great dreadnoughts, especially with the IH stratagem making the plasma option on the redemptor somewhat viable. White scar aggressors become as mobile as inceptors, and they can have very mobile infantry too. Black templars are all about the deep strike alpha charges.
I actually think that CTs are pretty successful as a piece of game design. They make you want to field infantry, not just predators and storm ravens.
One interesting thing. The intercessor kit doesn't actually include power swords - or at least I can't see any on the sprues and the description doesn't mention them. This is a break from the policy so far of only giving units options that are in their actual box.
murph87 wrote: Raven Guard are the best Chapter for Primaris.
Best? No. They are good.
Ultramarines still hold that just because of Roboute. Til another primarch comes out, I don't see that changing.
On another note, I did try out my Repulsor with 8 Reivers CC with Libby and Chaplain in it.
Repulsor was smited to death pretty quickly. Got 2 turns of dakka before dead. It would have lasted a ton longer if I could make had the libby outside, casting Fortress and MoH on it. So was a learning lesson. Otherwise it did ok. Still 300 points for 24 HB shots and 5d6 bolter shots. It was near roboute so I guess that's only reason it did ok. Reivers charged, stunning a havoc squad with chaplain. 9 guys vs 5 havoc marines and didn't kill them. I get people say they are cheap objective takers with gravchutes, but id rather have intercessors for the bolt rifle, better gun and the -1 AP is really needed. Unless they somehow give reivers -1 AP on blades, I see no reason to ever bring them in a list again. After that though, the primaris chaplain kicked some butt and murdered a lot.
Did you know it's almost 200pts for 8 devestators with HBs, it takes another 9 marines to average the bolters shots it outputs, So to just duplicate the exact firepower, it takes more points to standard marines, so basically you are getting everything else the repulsor brings, for free. I think it's a very viable. It's funny, it actually only has one less wounds then all those space marines as well, but double the toughness. I'm not quite a fan of the Quad-lascannon version, but hey, to each his own.
Mandragola wrote: I think salamanders are underrated. Their characters and dreadnoughts in particular are excellent. It's a good ct for plasma squads too.
I don't think the ravenguard ct does all that much for redemptprs, as they will usually want to be near the enemy.
I think there's a use for all of the CTs. The ravenguard one certainly seems best straight off, but it does very little against an assault rushing army. Ultramarines are kind of the opposite - perfect for the counter-punch. Salamanders and iron hands have great dreadnoughts, especially with the IH stratagem making the plasma option on the redemptor somewhat viable. White scar aggressors become as mobile as inceptors, and they can have very mobile infantry too. Black templars are all about the deep strike alpha charges.
I actually think that CTs are pretty successful as a piece of game design. They make you want to field infantry, not just predators and storm ravens.
One interesting thing. The intercessor kit doesn't actually include power swords - or at least I can't see any on the sprues and the description doesn't mention them. This is a break from the policy so far of only giving units options that are in their actual box.
Sallys are good for normal marines, where you can spam small squads with a las or melta. Since primaris don't have any of that in the form that's useful, well its not useful. The Redemptor is d6 shots so that's the only thing where it can get a minor bit of use. Everything else isn't to worth it
Mandragola wrote: I think salamanders are underrated. Their characters and dreadnoughts in particular are excellent. It's a good ct for plasma squads too.
I don't think the ravenguard ct does all that much for redemptprs, as they will usually want to be near the enemy.
I think there's a use for all of the CTs. The ravenguard one certainly seems best straight off, but it does very little against an assault rushing army. Ultramarines are kind of the opposite - perfect for the counter-punch. Salamanders and iron hands have great dreadnoughts, especially with the IH stratagem making the plasma option on the redemptor somewhat viable. White scar aggressors become as mobile as inceptors, and they can have very mobile infantry too. Black templars are all about the deep strike alpha charges.
I actually think that CTs are pretty successful as a piece of game design. They make you want to field infantry, not just predators and storm ravens.
One interesting thing. The intercessor kit doesn't actually include power swords - or at least I can't see any on the sprues and the description doesn't mention them. This is a break from the policy so far of only giving units options that are in their actual box.
Sallys are good for normal marines, where you can spam small squads with a las or melta. Since primaris don't have any of that in the form that's useful, well its not useful. The Redemptor is d6 shots so that's the only thing where it can get a minor bit of use. Everything else isn't to worth it
Sally Intercessor reroll would just end up being the nade launcher every time.
Well like I said, it's mainly good for characters and dreadnoughts. A primaris character with 4-5 attacks will probably miss with one and fail to wound with at least one.
It probably makes more sense to play librarians than captains or chaplains, as the rerolls are baked in already.
I think a repulsor full of salamander flamer aggressors would be pretty nasty. Maybe take 4 of them, a lieutenant and an apothecary or ancient.
The main thing I think of though are dreadnoughts. If running a contemptor it ought to result in roughly one more wounding hit for 3 damage every time it attacks. The same applies for a mortis dread (of either kind) with lascannon. The difference will quickly add up.
Mandragola wrote: Well like I said, it's mainly good for characters and dreadnoughts. A primaris character with 4-5 attacks will probably miss with one and fail to wound with at least one.
It probably makes more sense to play librarians than captains or chaplains, as the rerolls are baked in already.
I think a repulsor full of salamander flamer aggressors would be pretty nasty. Maybe take 4 of them, a lieutenant and an apothecary or ancient.
The main thing I think of though are dreadnoughts. If running a contemptor it ought to result in roughly one more wounding hit for 3 damage every time it attacks. The same applies for a mortis dread (of either kind) with lascannon. The difference will quickly add up.
That's a lot of points for no much effect really. Flame agressors are bad. Better to have the range, as it will let you sit and double shoot vastly more often then flamers
Flame aggressors definitely have issues, until primaris get a cheap transport. Even with the Salamander stratagem to make their flames or or gauntlets +1S it's situational.
A friend did point out that makes Aggressors punch a Leman Russ on 4s instead of 5s (or is it a 3?).
On defense however, flamethrower are amazing. Mixing these guys into a unit you expect to have charged is nasty.
8 Hellblasters with an Ancient and a Captain is probably optimal.
They pop out of the Repulsor and double tap. You're re-rolling 1's to hit, and any that do die due to overcharging get to shoot again (twice) on a 4+ before dying.
If you're ultramarines, bring a Lt instead for +1 to wound and use 1 CP for the strategem that lets them re-roll 1's to hit.
Managed to order myself the store birthday primaris captain this weekend - though I won't receive him till September when he's released.
This gives me the option of using the crimson fist... fist. It seems really good. I actually painted a couple of primaris guys as crimson fists and liked the result, so that might be what I go with.
The only fear is that he has special rules meaning his weapon counts as some other relic of some kind!
Mandragola wrote: Managed to order myself the store birthday primaris captain this weekend - though I won't receive him till September when he's released.
This gives me the option of using the crimson fist... fist. It seems really good. I actually painted a couple of primaris guys as crimson fists and liked the result, so that might be what I go with.
The only fear is that he has special rules meaning his weapon counts as some other relic of some kind!
I didn't even know the birthday captain was a thing. Good to know there will be rules for plasma pistol caps next month.
But what I think I might do in that case is a fluffy IF captain with one of those absolver bolt pistols to count as the Spartean. Run him with some Aggressors in a Repulsor and hit a flank super hard, sniping at an enemy character from within the inevitable melee.
Mandragola wrote: Managed to order myself the store birthday primaris captain this weekend - though I won't receive him till September when he's released.
This gives me the option of using the crimson fist... fist. It seems really good. I actually painted a couple of primaris guys as crimson fists and liked the result, so that might be what I go with.
The only fear is that he has special rules meaning his weapon counts as some other relic of some kind!
I didn't even know the birthday captain was a thing. Good to know there will be rules for plasma pistol caps next month.
But what I think I might do in that case is a fluffy IF captain with one of those absolver bolt pistols to count as the Spartean. Run him with some Aggressors in a Repulsor and hit a flank super hard, sniping at an enemy character from within the inevitable melee.
CC reivers are not worth it. I tried running them with chaplain for full reroll hits. Vs marines, they do hardly any wounds. Best as pointed above is hellblasters in repulsor for double tap over charge.
Mandragola wrote: Managed to order myself the store birthday primaris captain this weekend - though I won't receive him till September when he's released.
This gives me the option of using the crimson fist... fist. It seems really good. I actually painted a couple of primaris guys as crimson fists and liked the result, so that might be what I go with.
The only fear is that he has special rules meaning his weapon counts as some other relic of some kind!
I didn't even know the birthday captain was a thing. Good to know there will be rules for plasma pistol caps next month.
But what I think I might do in that case is a fluffy IF captain with one of those absolver bolt pistols to count as the Spartean. Run him with some Aggressors in a Repulsor and hit a flank super hard, sniping at an enemy character from within the inevitable melee.
CC reivers are not worth it. I tried running them with chaplain for full reroll hits. Vs marines, they do hardly any wounds. Best as pointed above is hellblasters in repulsor for double tap over charge.
Okay, good to know. Was planning on putting Aggressors in there, though, not Reivers.
Reivers I've found are super good at distraction, though. For gits and shiggles, I convinced a friend to give them both the grav chute and grapnel launchers and plopped them on top of a building in the opponent's deployment zone. They did really well plinking things from on high with carbines and were pretty well protected from charges because of their location. They took some shooting the following turn, but that didn't end them fully.
One thing I love about 8th so far is how cinematic things seem to be when they happen on the field. The Reivers then rappelled down the side of the building, advanced into a squad of devastators (blasting all along the away), and threw a nade at the closest tac squad to blind them for the inevitable charge from a deep strike Inceptors unit, who tied it up in combat (after blasting a ton of them) before falling back and blasting the rest off the table. The Reivers were later caught in an exploding land raider which was absolutely hilarious for other reasons, but still - CINEMATIC. Soooo badass.
Good to know CC Reivers aren't all that great. They always seemed to me to be more of a support squad that is super mobile, can kite, and is just as durable as all the other Primaris options.
Reivers are the cheapest wound/point that marines have access to. On that score they are pretty durable really. You could argue that it's odd auto-bolter intercessors cost 3 points more than reivers, who are identical apart from being a bit scary and having blind grenades. No obsec, I guess.
I think maybe my captain should just foot slog. He could buff some dakka aggressors, or maybe some hellblasters, and beat up things that came close.
A full squad of hellblasters is wasted if the only targets your transport can get to are squishies and hordes. You're also losing out on hellblaster long range fire while they're in the transport.
Admittedly, keeping the hellblasters inside the transport on turn 1 does mean you can keep them safe, drop then before moving so they can shoot.
A full squad of hellblasters is wasted if the only targets your transport can get to are squishies and hordes. You're also losing out on hellblaster long range fire while they're in the transport.
Admittedly, keeping the hellblasters inside the transport on turn 1 does mean you can keep them safe, drop then before moving so they can shoot.
That seems to be an awful lot of points for turn 1 protection, unless you're also thinking you'd then embark something in the transport before it moves again. I suppose could see hellblasters starting in a repulsor, if only to be protected for 1 turn, then disembark next turn while some aggressors or reivers jump in.
People need to stop thinking of the repulsor just as protection. I guarantee you don't realise how many guns there are on that thing. It's ridiculous.
That said, I do struggle to see what goes inside it. Hellblasters are ok, but if you're putting them in a repulsor you may as well just have inceptors. Of course the trouble with inceptors is that they blow themselves up, because it's difficult to have a captain nearby (especially for pure primaris) and at that point you may as well have scions.
I wonder if the assault version of hellblasters, running on the ground, might turn out to be the best option. They aren't all that expensive so you could have at least a couple of units. They probably wouldn't overcharge all that often, but they could seriously hurt MEQs either way, at good range. The lost strength does hurt their AT, though they are kind of never worse than the heavy guys - if in range.
Shame about the heavies. They should probably be heavy 2 and a bit more expensive, or a lot less expensive. Right now there's no way they are even worth considering.
Stuff dies pretty quickly in this edition, cover is easily mitigated. So yeah, more useful than you'd think, especially if he's near a hard hitting unit that will get focused.
And no one here is thinking of the Repulsor as just protection, everyone sees the large number of guns on it. However, if you don't consider its use as protection temporarily you miss out on that great function.
I'd be taking assault hellblasters against Necrons for sure. Probably a Primaris captain with power sword and plasma pistol to back them up.
Mandragola wrote: People need to stop thinking of the repulsor just as protection. I guarantee you don't realise how many guns there are on that thing. It's ridiculous.
That said, I do struggle to see what goes inside it. Hellblasters are ok, but if you're putting them in a repulsor you may as well just have inceptors. Of course the trouble with inceptors is that they blow themselves up, because it's difficult to have a captain nearby (especially for pure primaris) and at that point you may as well have scions.
I wonder if the assault version of hellblasters, running on the ground, might turn out to be the best option. They aren't all that expensive so you could have at least a couple of units. They probably wouldn't overcharge all that often, but they could seriously hurt MEQs either way, at good range. The lost strength does hurt their AT, though they are kind of never worse than the heavy guys - if in range.
Shame about the heavies. They should probably be heavy 2 and a bit more expensive, or a lot less expensive. Right now there's no way they are even worth considering.
Well, you want the repulsor transporting something, even if it's difficult to see why. Hellblasters starting in it early gain the benefit of protection, sure, but you'll want to use that gun boat to drop something eventually, right? Especially since you'll need to get close for those weapons to have much of an effect. I don't meant to imply its only a transport, but it's part of why it's costed as it is, so I can't see why it wouldn't be used that way.
I agree on the assault hellblasters being great MEQ, which means the repulsor would benefit from having the rapid fire version in there and use the Repulsor to get them into double tap range for some tank hunting. Not sure if 8-9 is enough to get the job done, though that lovely birthday captain with plasma pistol would help. Poor LT (if you include him) will just have to stand around firing his silly autobolter at something else entirely. Add the las talon for 4 points more on the Repulsor and it might be a great set of AT mixed with some pretty solid dakka from the rest of the Repulsor's armament.
I've had good luck parking a 10 man hellblaster squad with a gravis captain, lieutenant (power sword), and ancient in cover and letting them overcharge and wreck. Captain and Lieutenant help deal with any CC unit that makes it through wall of fire. Added an apothecary this weekend and most players just sigh and try to figure out to dislodge the unit. Its a good gunline cover for my repulsor with a full intercessor squad to move up and grab objectives.
At 1k points, I did a 5 man hellblaster squad backed by the characters inside the repulsor to minimize drops and park the combined unit wherever is convenient. Disembark the squad and keep the repulsor nearby for all the re-rolls. I fill out the points with an intercessor squad. Was quite effective in the games I played.
I think the rapid fire hell blasters are best. 30 inch range is excellent and just shooting at single wound meq across the table they usually do some nice damage. I start them in a repulsor ofc but you really don't need that - You really are doing it to minimize your drops. The heavies I really don't consider because to put them in the repulsor means a turn of weakend shooting and the assault ones are quite a bit more expensive and gain nothing over a rapid fire plasma incinerator once they are in 15 inch range.
In yesterdays game I ran 10 hell blasters with rapid fire guns.
Turn 1 they killed a breacher destroyer on standard mode without overcharge. Turn 2 they did 4 wounds to a tech preist dominius and turn 3 they rapid fired into an IK doing 18 wounds to it (I had guiliman bufs for that round and his knoight had a 4+ save cause it was a special knight) I lost 2 of them but I would have had a chance to save one of them with an apoth next turn. they did about 600 points of damage and weren't even targeted. These things are TRUELY underrated.
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portugus wrote: Hellblasters are mandatory if you're playing Primaris. Get them a reroll 1s and they will destroy. I did some ebaying and got 3 squads of 5 hellblasters and 4 squads of 5 riflemen.
For my real anti-vehicle I plan on getting 2 repulsor tanks with the lascannon loadouts. Also 1 redemptor with the onslaught gatling guns.
For the repulsor I think the twin las cannon is mandatory but after that take the cheapest options across the board. I go twin las with 3 stubbers 4 frag launchers and the heavy onslaught cannon.
For the repulsor I think the twin las cannon is mandatory but after that take the cheapest options across the board. I go twin las with 3 stubbers 4 frag launchers and the heavy onslaught cannon.
Wouldn't the las talon be a bit better since you need to get up close for all the secondary weapons anyway? It's also only 4 points more than the heavy onslaught cannon.
Replacing something with some AT firepower is a good idea in general, but certainly not the only option.
With how easy it is to alpha something and focus it down in this edition, I'm thinking spreading out the AT firepower at least a little is a good idea, even if we don't have dedicated AT anywhere else.
I really want to make a Primaris army, but it just feels like there is a distinct lack of variety right now. Hopefully, they will continue to fill out their options.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I really want to make a Primaris army, but it just feels like there is a distinct lack of variety right now. Hopefully, they will continue to fill out their options.
They will at some point. Next is splash releases for AoS, then Deathguard.
Primaris = Stormcast Eternals. Not a lot in the beginning, but enough to play. Very role defined. It might be a little while til new stuff, but they will circle back as its 40k, their cash cow, and its space marines, the poser boys.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I really want to make a Primaris army, but it just feels like there is a distinct lack of variety right now. Hopefully, they will continue to fill out their options.
They will at some point. Next is splash releases for AoS, then Deathguard.
Primaris = Stormcast Eternals. Not a lot in the beginning, but enough to play. Very role defined. It might be a little while til new stuff, but they will circle back as its 40k, their cash cow, and its space marines, the poster boys.
Yep. The benefit here is that Primaris are not a separate force and they can provide benefits to other Imperial armies prior to those armies receiving their Codex. I imagine any new codex would try and limit the Imperial soup, but for now, they don't.
For the repulsor I think the twin las cannon is mandatory but after that take the cheapest options across the board. I go twin las with 3 stubbers 4 frag launchers and the heavy onslaught cannon.
Wouldn't the las talon be a bit better since you need to get up close for all the secondary weapons anyway? It's also only 4 points more than the heavy onslaught cannon.
I like both but pinching pennies for efficiency here.
Having played a few games now with my Primaris stuff. The units I have found most effective are: Intercessors, Inceptors and Hellblasters.
Intercessors and fanatastic objective holders. The only downside is the lack of a cheap transport option.
Inceptors with the bolters are great at clearing out back units, playing mind games with your opponent. The points drop was needed though.
Hellblasters overcharging Plasma have been the standout unit for me. I only have 5 models and they have always done good work with a lieutenant. Multi wound infantry and light vehicles are all great targets.
Aggressors have been average. The flame fists just don't synergise very well with the shooting twice mechanic. And the Bolters just double up what the Primaris army is already good at. It's not that they are not good value it's just that I want Intercessors for the troops to get command points and I don't really want more Bolters in my elite spot. If you take a repulsor then there is even less reason to have Aggressors.
Building a bunch of my Primaris that I bought from the new releases. Is there anything particularly easy to magnetize that I should?
I'm trying to decide what to glue on weapon wise for my Redemptor, Repulsor, and Reivers.
1. Do I want the grenade launchers or the stormbolters on the Redemptor? Flamer or smaller Gatling? Plasma or Heavy Gatling?
2. I'm very tempted to go all Las on my Repulsor. Although I do have 10 Hellblasters with the incinerators. Will that be enough to just build Repulsor with dakka?
3. Reivers, combat knives and heavy bolt pistol or the smg looking guns (sorry brain fart)
Noctem wrote: Building a bunch of my Primaris that I bought from the new releases. Is there anything particularly easy to magnetize that I should?
I'm trying to decide what to glue on weapon wise for my Redemptor, Repulsor, and Reivers.
1. Do I want the grenade launchers or the stormbolters on the Redemptor? Flamer or smaller Gatling? Plasma or Heavy Gatling?
2. I'm very tempted to go all Las on my Repulsor. Although I do have 10 Hellblasters with the incinerators. Will that be enough to just build Repulsor with dakka?
3. Reivers, combat knives and heavy bolt pistol or the smg looking guns (sorry brain fart)
1. Since he doesn't move often storm bolters for the range. Small Gatling, flamer is useless. Heavy Gatling.
2. Las on the repulsor isn't worth it. Vastly over coasted. I left mine switchable in case in the future it's cheaper. You want max dakka
3. Best thing for reivers is to get your money back. They are useless in any configuration. Double tap with Grenade launcher is vastly better then these buckets of poop
Noctem wrote: Building a bunch of my Primaris that I bought from the new releases. Is there anything particularly easy to magnetize that I should?
I'm trying to decide what to glue on weapon wise for my Redemptor, Repulsor, and Reivers.
1. Do I want the grenade launchers or the stormbolters on the Redemptor? Flamer or smaller Gatling? Plasma or Heavy Gatling?
2. I'm very tempted to go all Las on my Repulsor. Although I do have 10 Hellblasters with the incinerators. Will that be enough to just build Repulsor with dakka?
3. Reivers, combat knives and heavy bolt pistol or the smg looking guns (sorry brain fart)
I don't have my Repuslor yet and I agree it is a real conundrum (been using a LR as a proxy). However, with all the expensive stuff it pays to Magnetize all the big guns. My Reivers are going on ebay haha, they have been the most useless unit I have played with in awhile. I have to admit though they looked good on paper!
Da-Rock wrote: Is the Primaris Ancient really that good? I have used him or an Apothecary yet.
An Apothecary and Ancient are solid when parked in cover with a Dev squad.
Something dies, it shoots its lascannon (ancient). Next turn it gets ressurected (apothecary). For just over a 100 points thats a great buff for a backfield shooty unit. With my Salamander tactics, that shot is made with a re-roll to hit and wound as well.
Makes for a good porcipine unit. Works the same on Centurion Devestators as well. They die and the fire their hurricane bolters (12 shots at 12") on the way down.
By RAW it looks like the Apothecary can ressurect the Armorium Cherub also which is rather hillarious.
With Primaris only they work best with Hellbasters over charging and double tapping. Roll a bucket of dice, and for every 1 you roll, one HB dies (and snaps off 2 more shots on the way down). Pair with an apothecary to bring them back to life.
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Gibs55 wrote: Aggressors have been average. The flame fists just don't synergise very well with the shooting twice mechanic.
I play Salamanders so these guys were a must have.
You really dont want to be charging a unit of 5 Agressors with flamestorm gauntlets. 20d6 auto hits at Strength 4. Parking Vulcan behind them for the lols (re-roll wounds) and using the Salamader flamecraft strategem is scary. Thats an average of 70 hits and works out to around 50 wounds vs T4 (and around 40 wounds v T 5-7) that need to be saved (v AP 0 mind you).
You'll find your opponents will never position himself closer than 8" when charging (meaning he always needs a 9+ on 2d6 to make the charge).
You get to move 5" and advance +1d6 freely, torching stuff.
Wth a Repulsor you can move them 10" then get out turn 2 with a +3", move +5" and advance +1d6" to set something on fire within 8".
Im considering assembling a Primaris only detachment for my Sallies.
And the Bolters just double up what the Primaris army is already good at. It's not that they are not good value it's just that I want Intercessors for the troops to get command points and I don't really want more Bolters in my elite spot. If you take a repulsor then there is even less reason to have Aggressors.
Raven Guard Agressors can deploy 9" away from the enemy (for the cost of 1 CP) and do not count as moving when doing so. Do the math what 6 of them can do to a unit (62 Bolter shots and a bucket load of d6 from the auto launchers). They'll delete most units from the board (make sure you deep strike Shrike near them on turn 1 for rerolls to hit)
If you dont get the first turn, they do the same number of shots for overwatch if you get charged.
IF/ CF Agressors are quite good options for Bolter drill. So are 6 deepstriking Inceptors with Assault Bolters (36 heavy bolter shots, with each 6 generating an extra shot).
I dropped 3 down on an Eldar army recently and wiped a large blob of Dire avengers off the board with some lucky rolls and 2 x bolter drill (I used one when they tried to charge me and I got obverwatch and rolled a lot of 6's).
Inceptors are really good distraction units when dropped, and can generally at least screw up a unit or two before getting got in return.
I feel Agressors could be equally nasty when played to their strengths.
Da-Rock wrote: Is the Primaris Ancient really that good? I have used him or an Apothecary yet.
An Apothecary and Ancient are solid when parked in cover with a Dev squad.
Something dies, it shoots its lascannon (ancient). Next turn it gets ressurected (apothecary). For just over a 100 points thats a great buff for a backfield shooty unit. With my Salamander tactics, that shot is made with a re-roll to hit and wound as well.
Makes for a good porcipine unit. Works the same on Centurion Devestators as well. They die and the fire their hurricane bolters (12 shots at 12") on the way down.
By RAW it looks like the Apothecary can ressurect the Armorium Cherub also which is rather hillarious.
With Primaris only they work best with Hellbasters over charging and double tapping. Roll a bucket of dice, and for every 1 you roll, one HB dies (and snaps off 2 more shots on the way down). Pair with an apothecary to bring them back to life.
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Gibs55 wrote: Aggressors have been average. The flame fists just don't synergise very well with the shooting twice mechanic.
I play Salamanders so these guys were a must have.
You really dont want to be charging a unit of 5 Agressors with flamestorm gauntlets. 20d6 auto hits at Strength 4. Parking Vulcan behind them for the lols (re-roll wounds) and using the Salamader flamecraft strategem is scary. Thats an average of 70 hits and works out to around 50 wounds vs T4 (and around 40 wounds v T 5-7) that need to be saved (v AP 0 mind you).
You'll find your opponents will never position himself closer than 8" when charging (meaning he always needs a 9+ on 2d6 to make the charge).
You get to move 5" and advance +1d6 freely, torching stuff.
Wth a Repulsor you can move them 10" then get out turn 2 with a +3", move +5" and advance +1d6" to set something on fire within 8".
Im considering assembling a Primaris only detachment for my Sallies.
And the Bolters just double up what the Primaris army is already good at. It's not that they are not good value it's just that I want Intercessors for the troops to get command points and I don't really want more Bolters in my elite spot. If you take a repulsor then there is even less reason to have Aggressors.
Raven Guard Agressors can deploy 9" away from the enemy (for the cost of 1 CP) and do not count as moving when doing so. Do the math what 6 of them can do to a unit (62 Bolter shots and a bucket load of d6 from the auto launchers). They'll delete most units from the board (make sure you deep strike Shrike near them on turn 1 for rerolls to hit)
If you dont get the first turn, they do the same number of shots for overwatch if you get charged.
IF/ CF Agressors are quite good options for Bolter drill. So are 6 deepstriking Inceptors with Assault Bolters (36 heavy bolter shots, with each 6 generating an extra shot).
I dropped 3 down on an Eldar army recently and wiped a large blob of Dire avengers off the board with some lucky rolls and 2 x bolter drill (I used one when they tried to charge me and I got obverwatch and rolled a lot of 6's).
Inceptors are really good distraction units when dropped, and can generally at least screw up a unit or two before getting got in return.
I feel Agressors could be equally nasty when played to their strengths.
Whoops - you can't Bolter Drill for overwatch. That's at least the only clear part of the rule since it needs to be declared before an infantry unit shoots in the shooting phase.
I used some Reivers the other day and boy were they enjoyable. After convincing a friend to take both grav and grapnel, I did it too. They dropped with carbines on the roof of a building and blasted at the enemy's backfield. Second turn advanced into another squad (vertical movement saved them from being charged), nades out, then had the inceptors charge something to tie it up. Kept doing this as both units moved around on the flank. Inceptors fell back and blasted the rest of the unit off there board. Reivers and Inceptors, man. Worked super all together.
Mandragola wrote: People need to stop thinking of the repulsor just as protection. I guarantee you don't realise how many guns there are on that thing. It's ridiculous.
That said, I do struggle to see what goes inside it. Hellblasters are ok, but if you're putting them in a repulsor you may as well just have inceptors. Of course the trouble with inceptors is that they blow themselves up, because it's difficult to have a captain nearby (especially for pure primaris) and at that point you may as well have scions.
I wonder if the assault version of hellblasters, running on the ground, might turn out to be the best option. They aren't all that expensive so you could have at least a couple of units. They probably wouldn't overcharge all that often, but they could seriously hurt MEQs either way, at good range. The lost strength does hurt their AT, though they are kind of never worse than the heavy guys - if in range.
Shame about the heavies. They should probably be heavy 2 and a bit more expensive, or a lot less expensive. Right now there's no way they are even worth considering.
Well, you want the repulsor transporting something, even if it's difficult to see why. Hellblasters starting in it early gain the benefit of protection, sure, but you'll want to use that gun boat to drop something eventually, right? Especially since you'll need to get close for those weapons to have much of an effect. I don't meant to imply its only a transport, but it's part of why it's costed as it is, so I can't see why it wouldn't be used that way.
I agree on the assault hellblasters being great MEQ, which means the repulsor would benefit from having the rapid fire version in there and use the Repulsor to get them into double tap range for some tank hunting. Not sure if 8-9 is enough to get the job done, though that lovely birthday captain with plasma pistol would help. Poor LT (if you include him) will just have to stand around firing his silly autobolter at something else entirely. Add the las talon for 4 points more on the Repulsor and it might be a great set of AT mixed with some pretty solid dakka from the rest of the Repulsor's armament.
The point I was trying to make is that the repulsor is way more than just a 340 point transport. It's also a huge pile of dakka.
To get the maximum value out of the thing you'll need to find a way to use it as both a useful transport and a gunboat. There's probably a good combination here but I don't yet see it. 10 rapid fire hellblasters might be a decent option, with characters jogging along behind. Just give your lieutenant a sword - or take advantage of the fact he can fire his auto bolt rifle while advancing.
A good use for repulsors is to bundle characters in there to reduce the number of drops you have. But it looks like GW are taking up the ITC rule for first turn (roll off, with whoever finished deploying first getting +1) and that changes things a lot.
Mandragola wrote: People need to stop thinking of the repulsor just as protection. I guarantee you don't realise how many guns there are on that thing. It's ridiculous.
That said, I do struggle to see what goes inside it. Hellblasters are ok, but if you're putting them in a repulsor you may as well just have inceptors. Of course the trouble with inceptors is that they blow themselves up, because it's difficult to have a captain nearby (especially for pure primaris) and at that point you may as well have scions.
I wonder if the assault version of hellblasters, running on the ground, might turn out to be the best option. They aren't all that expensive so you could have at least a couple of units. They probably wouldn't overcharge all that often, but they could seriously hurt MEQs either way, at good range. The lost strength does hurt their AT, though they are kind of never worse than the heavy guys - if in range.
Shame about the heavies. They should probably be heavy 2 and a bit more expensive, or a lot less expensive. Right now there's no way they are even worth considering.
Well, you want the repulsor transporting something, even if it's difficult to see why. Hellblasters starting in it early gain the benefit of protection, sure, but you'll want to use that gun boat to drop something eventually, right? Especially since you'll need to get close for those weapons to have much of an effect. I don't meant to imply its only a transport, but it's part of why it's costed as it is, so I can't see why it wouldn't be used that way.
I agree on the assault hellblasters being great MEQ, which means the repulsor would benefit from having the rapid fire version in there and use the Repulsor to get them into double tap range for some tank hunting. Not sure if 8-9 is enough to get the job done, though that lovely birthday captain with plasma pistol would help. Poor LT (if you include him) will just have to stand around firing his silly autobolter at something else entirely. Add the las talon for 4 points more on the Repulsor and it might be a great set of AT mixed with some pretty solid dakka from the rest of the Repulsor's armament.
The point I was trying to make is that the repulsor is way more than just a 340 point transport. It's also a huge pile of dakka.
To get the maximum value out of the thing you'll need to find a way to use it as both a useful transport and a gunboat. There's probably a good combination here but I don't yet see it. 10 rapid fire hellblasters might be a decent option, with characters jogging along behind. Just give your lieutenant a sword - or take advantage of the fact he can fire his auto bolt rifle while advancing.
A good use for repulsors is to bundle characters in there to reduce the number of drops you have. But it looks like GW are taking up the ITC rule for first turn (roll off, with whoever finished deploying first getting +1) and that changes things a lot.
For it to have some chance to make back its points, you need It near gulliman. It can do a ton of wounds, but you need to have the rerolls. Best thing would be 9 hellblasters and an ancient, move up, dakka, next turn they get out and double tap.
Our group has played ITC since 8th released pretty much so used to the chance of not going first. Balances the game more. Primaris will usually have +1 anyways. You combat squad most of your things, as you don't need a SGT for the leadership as its super rare moral will effect you
Noctem wrote: Building a bunch of my Primaris that I bought from the new releases. Is there anything particularly easy to magnetize that I should?
I'm trying to decide what to glue on weapon wise for my Redemptor, Repulsor, and Reivers.
1. Do I want the grenade launchers or the stormbolters on the Redemptor? Flamer or smaller Gatling? Plasma or Heavy Gatling?
2. I'm very tempted to go all Las on my Repulsor. Although I do have 10 Hellblasters with the incinerators. Will that be enough to just build Repulsor with dakka?
3. Reivers, combat knives and heavy bolt pistol or the smg looking guns (sorry brain fart)
I don't have my Repuslor yet and I agree it is a real conundrum (been using a LR as a proxy). However, with all the expensive stuff it pays to Magnetize all the big guns. My Reivers are going on ebay haha, they have been the most useless unit I have played with in awhile. I have to admit though they looked good on paper!
They should be troops. Why the heck are they elites?
Played my first game with my New Primaris Marines and they seem to be very durable. I picked up the repulsor and redemptor dread and I had some decent success with the repulsor. The Dreadnought got neutralized pretty badly in turn one sadly and I made the unfortunate decision to over charge his plasma incenerator and rolled a 3 on the d6 and rolled 3 1s leaving me at 3HP. Needless to say I feel the onslaught cannon might have been a better choice. However the big star of the game was the repulsor. This thing has SO many shots it's ridiculous. I only wish I had my captain walking on foot next to it to reroll one's. I was also very pleased with the performance of the hellblasters. Being able to over charge them and double tap them to delete a squad of enemy Primaris hiding in ruins was a testament of their potential. Definitely interested in filling these guys out.
I ran Iron Hands CT and found their main flesh is weak tactic to be pretty lackluster but the strategem that allowed a unit to move and fire heavy weapons really helped when my Dreadnought already suffered a significant loss and was firing at 2nd tier stats.
My recent experience with Primaris has been a good one.
* Intercessors have never done much, "work", but they do have a simple job.
* Lieutenants have been solid, but not spectacular....in fact, none of my HQs have stood out, (Haven't used a Librarian yet.
* Inceptors got Power pricey, but when I used them they were good. Playing as Raven Guard has put them in the same category as my Aggressors.
* Redemptor is a recent purchase, but he was great. Plasma was solid and helped out since I don't have a Repulsor. The other weapons are good for the little things in range.
* Hellblasters are always good, but I haven't tried over charging them yet. (can you reroll a 1 on over charge and not fry?)
* Repulsor - I do not own it
* Reivers have never been played as I only own 3.
I typically add in a Venerable Las/Auto Cannon Dread for puncvh until I can grab the Repulsor.
Da-Rock wrote: My recent experience with Primaris has been a good one.
* Intercessors have never done much, "work", but they do have a simple job.
* Lieutenants have been solid, but not spectacular....in fact, none of my HQs have stood out, (Haven't used a Librarian yet.
* Inceptors got Power pricey, but when I used them they were good. Playing as Raven Guard has put them in the same category as my Aggressors.
* Redemptor is a recent purchase, but he was great. Plasma was solid and helped out since I don't have a Repulsor. The other weapons are good for the little things in range.
* Hellblasters are always good, but I haven't tried over charging them yet. (can you reroll a 1 on over charge and not fry?)
* Repulsor - I do not own it
* Reivers have never been played as I only own 3.
I typically add in a Venerable Las/Auto Cannon Dread for puncvh until I can grab the Repulsor.
Do you forward deploy your Inceptors with the RG strat? Seems a waste of a perfectly good deep strike unit to me, but are you seeing a benefit over a normal deep strike?
As for Hellblasters, you can reroll that one if they're near something that grants that buff (like a Captain) and avoid blowing up (unless your reroll is also a 1).
Hopefully, you guys can give me some thoughts on something i'm struggling to choose between.
Aggressors, or TH/SS Termies?
Either way, these will probably be both deployed using the Raven Guard strat to ensure a 1st turn charge.
Currently my army doesn't really include a strong, survivable CC punch, so i've been thinking terminators - but, as the aggressors are similar in points for a unit of 6 i can't decide on whether or not to use them instead as they can add in a whole lot of extra firepower, and have similar abilities in CC. (i'd be going bolter aggressors, as, if i don't have first turn, i feel against most opponents they'd never be in range to use the flamers)
Things to consider, as the fact that terminators have some mobility with the teleport homer and are more survivable with a 2+ 3++, but zero shooting.
Aggressors have so much dakka with added powerfists.
I keep coming back to the aggressors, but, without first turn i don't think they'd survive with enough models to provide a decent threat.
I have been utilizing a Lt. Primaris, 2 units of 5 intercessors and 5 Hellblasters in my Dark Angels list and I must say they have been performing way better than I thought. They seem average on paper but they are very resilient (especially alongside Azrael) and work very well holding the line.
Hellblasters and my Company Vets make deepstriking lone units scary to my opponents. I really enjoy them. I think Inceptors got more playable since the point drop. Now that you could feasibly run 5 at 225 I think it is; this makes them way better and more worth taking.
Kdash wrote:Hopefully, you guys can give me some thoughts on something i'm struggling to choose between.
Aggressors, or TH/SS Termies?
Either way, these will probably be both deployed using the Raven Guard strat to ensure a 1st turn charge.
Currently my army doesn't really include a strong, survivable CC punch, so i've been thinking terminators - but, as the aggressors are similar in points for a unit of 6 i can't decide on whether or not to use them instead as they can add in a whole lot of extra firepower, and have similar abilities in CC. (i'd be going bolter aggressors, as, if i don't have first turn, i feel against most opponents they'd never be in range to use the flamers)
Things to consider, as the fact that terminators have some mobility with the teleport homer and are more survivable with a 2+ 3++, but zero shooting.
Aggressors have so much dakka with added powerfists.
I keep coming back to the aggressors, but, without first turn i don't think they'd survive with enough models to provide a decent threat.
I think this is somewhat dependent on your list. Do you have anything else to support the terminators? Or would they be a drop and forget kind of thing? If most of your list is foot-slogging it, then go aggressors. I haven't personally used them, but they seem like real winners for the points so far. Terminators are sturdy, but once they drop, they are sometimes left all alone. Lonely Terminators are dead terminators unless they can just constantly keep assaulting.
Widied wrote:I have been utilizing a Lt. Primaris, 2 units of 5 intercessors and 5 Hellblasters in my Dark Angels list and I must say they have been performing way better than I thought. They seem average on paper but they are very resilient (especially alongside Azrael) and work very well holding the line.
Hellblasters and my Company Vets make deepstriking lone units scary to my opponents. I really enjoy them. I think Inceptors got more playable since the point drop. Now that you could feasibly run 5 at 225 I think it is; this makes them way better and more worth taking.
I have been basically running a modified 500 point Primaris army using the contents of the starter set and I have been very impressed so far. They have fair quite well against other 500 point lists so far. Of course it was an objective game, but I have been moving them together as one giant mob and it has paid off. The buffs from the captain, lts, and ancient have been great!
Kdash wrote:Hopefully, you guys can give me some thoughts on something i'm struggling to choose between.
Aggressors, or TH/SS Termies?
Either way, these will probably be both deployed using the Raven Guard strat to ensure a 1st turn charge.
Currently my army doesn't really include a strong, survivable CC punch, so i've been thinking terminators - but, as the aggressors are similar in points for a unit of 6 i can't decide on whether or not to use them instead as they can add in a whole lot of extra firepower, and have similar abilities in CC. (i'd be going bolter aggressors, as, if i don't have first turn, i feel against most opponents they'd never be in range to use the flamers)
Things to consider, as the fact that terminators have some mobility with the teleport homer and are more survivable with a 2+ 3++, but zero shooting.
Aggressors have so much dakka with added powerfists.
I keep coming back to the aggressors, but, without first turn i don't think they'd survive with enough models to provide a decent threat.
I think this is somewhat dependent on your list. Do you have anything else to support the terminators? Or would they be a drop and forget kind of thing? If most of your list is foot-slogging it, then go aggressors. I haven't personally used them, but they seem like real winners for the points so far. Terminators are sturdy, but once they drop, they are sometimes left all alone. Lonely Terminators are dead terminators unless they can just constantly keep assaulting.
10 man squad of reivers that can/will be split into 2 5 man teams will be there with them, probably along with Shrike as well.
Then my force has a few units mid table, a couple back field and (likely) 3 stormtalons overhead, so the idea would be that the Terminators go in first turn and potentially hold up something big while the rest of the force lays down plenty of fire.
My concern is that, beyond the stormtalons (2 with lascannons) and the 2 backfield units i don't have a lot of high strength weaponry as pretty much everything is bolter/heavy bolter variants. The terminators would provide a solid backup in some cases to the high strength guns, whereas, the aggressors kinda do that whilst also having a lot of shots as well.
What do you guys think the best loadout for the smaller weapons on the Repulsor is? Decided to magnetize or place the larger weapons to be able to swap, but will probably glue on the smaller weapons.
Noctem wrote: What do you guys think the best loadout for the smaller weapons on the Repulsor is? Decided to magnetize or place the larger weapons to be able to swap, but will probably glue on the smaller weapons.
Had a conversation about this in the rumour thread a little while back. The conclusion was that it makes basically no difference. A storm bolter and fragstorm are basically the same. The fragstorm might reduce the time it takes to roll your shooting though, as it's one less type of weapon to consider. There's not much in it though. You might need to save the points though.
I have been running an all Primaris army sans transport. CT Lightning strike (White Scars). Intercessors and Hellblasters with assault guns, wrapped around Capt in Gravis, LT, ancient and Librarian. I just got Reivers, and haven't played them yet.
Lightning give +2" advance and charge after fall back. That means if I advance, I have a minimum 9" move on most foot sloggers and can still shoot (-1). 2 shots at 24" is proving more useful than 30/15, mostly because I can run and gun. Hellblasters with Captain means you only fail supercharges 1 in 36 (re-roll 1s), so I spam the supercharges.
Most times that I deep strike the Inceptors, they got charged and slaughtered. I'm still learning them but discovered something fascinating. I retreated a surviving squad behind my main attack blob. The Intercessors got mobbed by blobs of orks, and stood up well. On my turn, I had them fall back slaughtered the orks with the inceptors, then let the orcs take another overwatch next turn.
I plan on using the tactic with inceptors and reivers on a deep strike.
With an average advance of 11" or 12", there is really no need for transport, so the Repulsor would just be a tank. I'd rather have my marines shoot than hide in a tank. For the points, I can field 15 Intercessors or an Inceptor/reiver (3/5) deep strike unit.
The Primaris have some really strong mid-range capabilities. The addition of the aux. grenade launcher makes them even better! The core of my bubble wrap has become Intercessors because they are darn resilient. Especially with Azrael offering them a 4++ save. I only own two units otherwise I would run three. I don't think they would be fantastic at shifting units or making a huge difference but that's not how I personally use them. I use them to block access to my key toys. While they hold them in place, I use bigger hitters to help them out. And they have always shined in this role so far out of my testing.
Also, find a way to run the Primaris Lieutenant. For their points, they are fantastic.
Time of madness wrote: Just curious if anyone has had success with an all primaris army at the 2000pt level?
Would something like this work?
Battalion
- captain
- librarian
3 units of intercessors
Aggressors
Repulsor
10 hellblasters
Ancient
Obviously the captain and ancient would hang out with the hellblasters to buff them.
Is this a good core start to an army?
Time of madness
Currently running a 2k prime army.
grav cap
lib
1 10man interssor
2 5 man int
1 10 man rf hellblasters
1 5man with heavy hellblasters
2 5 man reivers with split options because i modeled them that way :/
banner
apothecary
las repulsive
and a 3 man inceptor
IIRC
played one game against a full Tsons army and got wrecked. all is dust is a pain in the ass.
Time of madness wrote: Just curious if anyone has had success with an all primaris army at the 2000pt level?
Would something like this work?
Battalion
- captain
- librarian
3 units of intercessors
Aggressors
Repulsor
10 hellblasters
Ancient
Obviously the captain and ancient would hang out with the hellblasters to buff them.
Is this a good core start to an army?
Time of madness
Currently running a 2k prime army.
grav cap
lib
1 10man interssor
2 5 man int
1 10 man rf hellblasters
1 5man with heavy hellblasters
2 5 man reivers with split options because i modeled them that way :/
banner
apothecary
las repulsive
and a 3 man inceptor
IIRC
played one game against a full Tsons army and got wrecked. all is dust is a pain in the ass.
My 2k all primaris(Almost) list is:
mkx captain
lib
3 5 man intercessor squads
4 man agressor w/ bolters
Redemptor with dakka loadout
1 Ancient (W/ Standard of the emperor's ascent)
8 man hellblaster
2 las repulsors
1 vindicare assassin.
Its great fun to play. I'm not sure if it's the most competitive, but the repulsors along with hellblasters captain and ancient are real great at deleting armour.
What's the consensus between reivers with carbines and combat knives? Jw since I had the ETB 3 man reivers and wanted to get a box because they look like fun to build. So far I'm thinking 7 knives and 6 carbines.
Also, I've been reading the heavy plasma incinerator isn't that great. But that's just on paper, right? I mean, a plasma gun is always good, and with extra range, strength and penetration how could it be bad?
And finally, is a las repulsor worth taking instead of 4 regular Hellblasters and 6 reivers? It seems like it is, but just wanted to be sure.
The Heavy Plasma Incinerator is no better than the Assault PI v. T7, and worse v. all other Toughness values. Things get worse if it moves. Being able to shoot in the run and have double the shots, even if they are at 24" makes the Assault version quite good. I still prefer the Rapid Fire version, myself, but the Assault version has a lot to offer.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Heavy Plasma Incinerator is no better than the Assault PI v. T7, and worse v. all other Toughness values. Things get worse if it moves. Being able to shoot in the run and have double the shots, even if they are at 24" makes the Assault version quite good. I still prefer the Rapid Fire version, myself, but the Assault version has a lot to offer.
The heavy does not really benifit against T7.only 8
But they do benifit at least against normal chump marines at T4. though hardly as much as shooting twice.
Reeeally wish the heavy was a 2/3 damage weapon instead.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Heavy Plasma Incinerator is no better than the Assault PI v. T7, and worse v. all other Toughness values. Things get worse if it moves. Being able to shoot in the run and have double the shots, even if they are at 24" makes the Assault version quite good. I still prefer the Rapid Fire version, myself, but the Assault version has a lot to offer.
The heavy does not really benifit against T7.only 8
But they do benifit at least against normal chump marines at T4. though hardly as much as shooting twice.
Reeeally wish the heavy was a 2/3 damage weapon instead.
I couldn't remember what Toughness it equaled the Assault PI, just that it was only one value and it was outclassed in all others. It should be Heavy 2.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Heavy Plasma Incinerator is no better than the Assault PI v. T7, and worse v. all other Toughness values. Things get worse if it moves. Being able to shoot in the run and have double the shots, even if they are at 24" makes the Assault version quite good. I still prefer the Rapid Fire version, myself, but the Assault version has a lot to offer.
The heavy does not really benifit against T7.only 8
But they do benifit at least against normal chump marines at T4. though hardly as much as shooting twice.
Reeeally wish the heavy was a 2/3 damage weapon instead.
I couldn't remember what Toughness it equaled the Assault PI, just that it was only one value and it was outclassed in all others. It should be Heavy 2.
The assault one is 6/7 str same ap same damage The RF is 7/8 str which is a sweet spot imho The Heavy is 8/9 which only helps against T8, but otherwise gets to shoot without risk against normal tactical type marines. More damage would make it diffrent from the other two and allow a unit of them to really threaten heavy vehicles since a full primarus army has nothing besides the repulsor.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Heavy Plasma Incinerator is no better than the Assault PI v. T7, and worse v. all other Toughness values. Things get worse if it moves. Being able to shoot in the run and have double the shots, even if they are at 24" makes the Assault version quite good. I still prefer the Rapid Fire version, myself, but the Assault version has a lot to offer.
The heavy does not really benifit against T7.only 8
But they do benifit at least against normal chump marines at T4. though hardly as much as shooting twice.
Reeeally wish the heavy was a 2/3 damage weapon instead.
I couldn't remember what Toughness it equaled the Assault PI, just that it was only one value and it was outclassed in all others. It should be Heavy 2.
The assault one is 6/7 str same ap same damage
The RF is 7/8 str which is a sweet spot imho The Heavy is 8/9 which only helps against T8, but otherwise gets to shoot without risk against normal tactical type marines. More damage would make it diffrent from the other two and allow a unit of them to really threaten heavy vehicles since a full primarus army has nothing besides the repulsor.
This is true for the Intercessor options as well. The heavy one isn't really ever worth it compared to the other two, which have just a small enough difference in role that there's benefits to using one over the other.
A quick errata could fix that for both, but until then...stay away.
I dunno the Stalker bolter at the least has ap-2 and a decent range. so its clear its meant to go after tougher armored units vs the normal -1 boltrifle. but then again its kinda overlaping the hell blasters which i find redundant.
Desubot wrote: I dunno the Stalker bolter at the least has ap-2 and a decent range. so its clear its meant to go after tougher armored units vs the normal -1 boltrifle. but then again its kinda overlaping the hell blasters which i find redundant.
It's clear that it's meant to go after targets with tougher armour, sure - but it doesn't really do much to them. Even against relatively low toughness units like Terminators, you'll only be doing about three quarters of a wound each turn in a 5 man squad... not much more than the other two weapons and actually less than the double tap bolt rifle. Now, that doesn't take into account the relative value of the extra 6 inch range, or the immobile nature of heavy weapons (to add a con), but we do know that stalkers kind of only work in a very specific role and they aren't even very good at that (same as heavy hellblasters). For their cost it'd be smarter to stick with either the rapid fire ones or use them in a more aggressive and mobile role with the assault ones. That's actually true for the Hellblasters as well, which makes me sad to think that they missed the mark for both these heavy options lol
Though, like I said, errata could fix both eventually.
Here is my 2k List. This is as about as optimal/most completive as primaris can get, when just using full primaris plus robby. Lots of success with it, but first few turns really hangs on robby's aura to kill as much as possible.
Battalion: 9 CP Total
2 Libby
3 10 man intercessor squads 2 launchers each. they deploy combat squaded so really 6 5 man units. (Makes it nearly impossible to fail moral)
6 Aggressors with dakka dakka
Ancient
6 Hell blasters
Dakka Repulsor
Robby G
Hellblasters/Ancient hide in Repulsor first turn. 2nd jump out and usually in double tap.
8 Units placed helps to get +1 to go first.
We usually play tac objs so 2 5 mans are on the flank near objectives, rest of the army drives up the center with rerolls.
Depending on what opponent brings, MoH casted on tank or agressors.
TBH I feel like Primaris really suffer from not having access to certain kinds of weapons. Like was said earlier, they seem pretty mediocre in anything but small games. I think instead of 'How can we make Primaris-only work' we should say 'What are the best things to add to a Primaris force?'
If you take the best from the Primaris additions and stick them in a normal Space Marine army, you'l get the Aggressors, Hellblasters, and maybe a dakka Redemptor Dread to help shore up what normal Space Marines have trouble with, which is dealing with certain kinds of horde.
Taking cheaper Librarians to save on points, taking more scouts to snipe out enemy characters and as troops, and then shore up your anti-tank with your preferred method. Sternguard, Devastators, las Predators, or whatever else. Adding Rhinos as transports for your smaller things and as LOS-blocking head-aches for your opponent helps your otherwise high-priority Hellblasters to stay around longer to do more damage.
All told, it may not look as nice as a Primaris-only force, but using the full flexibility of the Space Marine Codex is going to be where the Space Marines really shine.
drbored wrote: TBH I feel like Primaris really suffer from not having access to certain kinds of weapons. Like was said earlier, they seem pretty mediocre in anything but small games. I think instead of 'How can we make Primaris-only work' we should say 'What are the best things to add to a Primaris force?'
If you take the best from the Primaris additions and stick them in a normal Space Marine army, you'l get the Aggressors, Hellblasters, and maybe a dakka Redemptor Dread to help shore up what normal Space Marines have trouble with, which is dealing with certain kinds of horde.
Taking cheaper Librarians to save on points, taking more scouts to snipe out enemy characters and as troops, and then shore up your anti-tank with your preferred method. Sternguard, Devastators, las Predators, or whatever else. Adding Rhinos as transports for your smaller things and as LOS-blocking head-aches for your opponent helps your otherwise high-priority Hellblasters to stay around longer to do more damage.
All told, it may not look as nice as a Primaris-only force, but using the full flexibility of the Space Marine Codex is going to be where the Space Marines really shine.
The only real thing they are missing is affordable anti tank.
You can kinda get away with it with laspulsors but that takes up a ton of space.
Hellblasters really needed a legit good anti tank option.
i think the heavy is sort of ok but not with the damage or lack of shots. otherwise it competes with the rapid fire one and the rapid fire one is just better in the majority of cases.
otherwise we have all the dakka options for horde, normal marines and heavy infantry for days.
oh and special weapon punch town. we dont really have that outside of the aggressors which is kinda boring.
I suspect we'll see expensive weapon/unit attachment boxes added to Primaris stuff. A $35 las-cannon or promethium incinerators (flamer) seems like how they'll really try to gouge players.
I'm running a made up Salamanders successor that's all Primaris, so not having many flamers or melta weapons is little annoying.
Vertrucio wrote: I suspect we'll see expensive weapon/unit attachment boxes added to Primaris stuff. A $35 las-cannon or promethium incinerators (flamer) seems like how they'll really try to gouge players.
I'm running a made up Salamanders successor that's all Primaris, so not having many flamers or melta weapons is little annoying.
I know that feeling. I'm building White Scars. Not as bad since I can still advance an extra two but dammit I would like bikes.
I'm sure in a year when they come back to the new stormcast eternals, er I mean primaris, we will see a lot more special units to fill in the roles needed.
What still feels odd is the Repulsor. Primaris are very role focused and this tank is kinda all over. Transport but expensive, but can be anti tank or anti horde. They need a solid anti armor tank option and a solid transport option. Then a better close combat squad as reivers are hot garbage.
What would really shake it up is making them get some kind of "unit" ad-ons. such as an elite slot that was kind of like deviators, but you could add them to your intercessor unit. Trying not to wishlist, but an idea.
str00dles1 wrote: I'm sure in a year when they come back to the new stormcast eternals, er I mean primaris, we will see a lot more special units to fill in the roles needed.
What still feels odd is the Repulsor. Primaris are very role focused and this tank is kinda all over. Transport but expensive, but can be anti tank or anti horde. They need a solid anti armor tank option and a solid transport option. Then a better close combat squad as reivers are hot garbage.
What would really shake it up is making them get some kind of "unit" ad-ons. such as an elite slot that was kind of like deviators, but you could add them to your intercessor unit. Trying not to wishlist, but an idea.
You know, the best way to include a better close combat squad would be to adjust the Reiver's combat blades in an errata. Adding some AP should do the trick. Keep them focused on weaker enemies, though, and horde control. Then use the fact that the Inceptors have to pay per weapon to open up the option to start adding harder hitting melee options. All this without having to add a new unit.
But you're right, getting too close to wishlisting. What's clear is that Primaris are best at range and should play accordingly.
Zond wrote: Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?
for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.
yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes
Zond wrote: Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?
for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.
yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes
Huh? Ravenguard variant adds chapter tactics that allow for -1 to hit 12" on Primaris, STFS makes Aggressor Primaris incredible....I'd say that's a serious boost for no Chapter Tactics or Strategem Vanilla Primaris Marines...
Zond wrote: Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?
for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.
yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes
Huh? Ravenguard variant adds chapter tactics that allow for -1 to hit 12" on Primaris, STFS makes Aggressor Primaris incredible....I'd say that's a serious boost for no Chapter Tactics or Strategem Vanilla Primaris Marines...
The conversation is about codex primaris vs dark angel, blood angel or space wolves. Ravenguard are one kind of vanilla marines, in this context.
Zond wrote: Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?
for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.
yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes
Huh? Ravenguard variant adds chapter tactics that allow for -1 to hit 12" on Primaris, STFS makes Aggressor Primaris incredible....I'd say that's a serious boost for no Chapter Tactics or Strategem Vanilla Primaris Marines...
You're right, but Raven Guard are vanilla marines because they're codex compliant. The variants she or he was referring to were Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels, or Deathwatch. Codex Compliant vanilla marine Chapters like Raven Guard have a whole bunch of stratagems, warlord traits, and chapter tactics that those variant Chapters do not have (yet). At this time, there's no value to choosing them for a pure Primaris force over a Codex Chapter. There is value if you want a mixed force, but that depends on the army.
Reivers are suffering from mission creep. CC units don't need long range options. Take away the carbine, and equip them with a second knife. Give the option to trade out the heavy bolt pistol for 2 normal bolt pistols. If you want the carbine, grapnel or the grav-chute you have to trade out the heavy bolt pistol, or a knife. Finally, given their lighter armor, they should have a +1 advance and/or charge.
Reivers will get really nice with a suitable chapter tactic that enhance their mobility wich is imao their main weakness. If BA get advance and charge, i will glady get some 5 man squad of reivers.
My main experience with my Primaris is from the starter set in small games from 500-750; at that range they seem fairly versatile and durable. The intercessors and hellblasters are the standouts, but the lack of transports outside of the float raider is extremely disappointing and I suspect as I get more points together I'll face more weapons that does more damage and can wipe 2W infantry out more efficiently. That said, I can't imagine not fielding Primaris; the miniatures look excellent (well hellblasters and intercessors at least. I'm lukewarm on inceptors and aggressors and dislike the Reiver minis.). I'm excited to see how the line grows. In the small games I've played I've yet to lose an entire unit and they almost seem overpowered, but in larger, more diverse games I know that won't be the case.
For 516 points and 2 CP, 2x 6 man bolter aggressor squads puts out serious dakka T1, wherever you want on the board. Albeit they are left in the open if you don't support them with other units.
Just picked up around 1500 points of primaris the other day, Captain, luitenant, ancient, 20 intercessors, 6 inceptors and 10 hellblasters. Getting a repulsor, redemptor and 6 aggressors (minimum).
Would a standard devestator squad (if captain, lieutenant, Hellblasters and ancient nearby) be a good investment if running all bolters with the other options?
What are people's overall thoughts on Redemptor Dreads? I am seriously considering buying 2 or 3 of them to join my fledgling Primaris army. I absolutely love the models but much the the repulsor I am seriously unsure of what to fit them with and what roles they might fill. The army, like so many Primaris only forces is lacking heavily in anti tank right now. So in general how do people feel about the Redemptor and what roles can they fill?
shade3413 wrote: What are people's overall thoughts on Redemptor Dreads? I am seriously considering buying 2 or 3 of them to join my fledgling Primaris army. I absolutely love the models but much the the repulsor I am seriously unsure of what to fit them with and what roles they might fill. The army, like so many Primaris only forces is lacking heavily in anti tank right now. So in general how do people feel about the Redemptor and what roles can they fill?
The few times i've run mine I have thoroughly enjoyed it. While its not big on the anti-tank department outside of its plasma cannon you're going to have similar results with the Heavy onslaught cannons (and the reg cannon, never take the flamer since you will want to maximize your firepower for the investment in the platform that can only foot slog). It can put out A LOT of S5 AP-1 accurately and thats a gun statline that can effectively hurt anything. Additionally in my first foray into fighting Tau the damn thing took almost an entire armies worth of firepower and managed to survive (barely). Plus! its not slouch in close combat either and can smash up tanks reasonably well and disrupt deep strikers.
I plan on running him and maybe some of the other dreads (Venerable and Ironclad) in my primaris lists for some flavor and access to Lascannons. I also think theres nothing wrong with snagging some predators and whirlwinds in your primaris armies, since no one says they can't drive the old tanks =P
casvalremdeikun wrote: Is the Primaris Captain with Plasma Pistol and Power Fist going to be worth it over the other Captain types?
Well a stock Primaris captain (without wargear) is 87 points. If we add on the points of a plasma pistol and powerfist hes going to be 106 points. A primaris captain in gravis armor is 137. So for 31 more points you get a MCPS, 3 bolt pistol shots, and T5. Is that worth it? Ehhh T5 is a big deal, but the plasma pistol is going to be better I think and most of the time I find my gravis captain punching with the fist anyways. So yeah I could see a place for the powerfist primaris captain if you are looking to shave points, but not too many points. Conversely compared to a standard primaris captain with a stalker and power sword its only a 10 points difference to gain a gun thats probably better and a power fist which is better than a sword for sure.
I would be giving him the Fist of Vengeance so he would have an even better Power Fist. It takes away the weaknesses of the Power Fist (-1 to hit and variable damage), which really gives it a leg up on the Gravis Captain, who pays for his fist and his sword. It kinda sucks that the Fist of Vengeance can't replace the melee portion of a Boltstorm Gauntlet. Oh well.
The fist of vengeance is a seriously good weapon for a captain. Once you factor in the accuracy and better damage he hits almost twice as hard against multi-wound targets.
I'm going to paint my primaris as crimson fists. They are such a classic and quite fun to paint.
For a 1k force, whats the best thing to add to the Primaris from Dark Imperium? I bit the bullet today and ordered the boxed set.
I'm thinking I could use another intercessor squad and some hellblasters? Maybe the Aggressor? Should I just try and trade the nurgle for another DA primaris set?
I mostly play at 1k points, so the redemptor and repulsor are a bit too high in points for me.
argonak wrote: For a 1k force, whats the best thing to add to the Primaris from Dark Imperium? I bit the bullet today and ordered the boxed set.
I'm thinking I could use another intercessor squad and some hellblasters? Maybe the Aggressor? Should I just try and trade the nurgle for another DA primaris set?
I mostly play at 1k points, so the redemptor and repulsor are a bit too high in points for me.
I would recommend trading the Nurgle part for another primaris set. That gives you extra Intercessors and Hellblasters that you would want in a bigger list, plus extra characters you can convert to a non-gravis captain/Apothecary/Librarian or even a Techmarine if you need to and feel up to the job/have some useful bits.
If you switch around some arms and position the heads differently, you can make the Dark Imperium mono-pose marines different enough that they don't look like duplicates.
In terms of what you could do for a 1000pts army with the Dark Imperium primaris marines, I went for the Redemptor dreadnought. It looks awesome, is a very nice kit and has pretty nice stats. Only thing is that if you have any old dreadnoughts, they will look like midgets next to it. :-)
A 1000pts list could look like this:
HQ Primaris Captain +Master-crafted power sword + Boltstorm gauntlet gauntlet
Lieutenant (non-primaris)
TROOPS
Intercessor squad A +Bolt rifle
Intercessor squad B +Bolt rifle
ELITES
Redemptor Dreadnought +H. gatling cannon +Gatling cannon +Icarus + Stormbolterx2
Primaris Ancient
HEAVY
Hellblaster squad +Plasma incinerator x5
FAST
Inceptor squad +Assault bolterx2 x3
--998pts
Mind you the Lt. has to stand-in as a non primaris Lieutenant, as there is not enough points to buy a primaris one. But that uses what's in the box plus a dreadnought.
Unfortunately you'll have to use a Patrol detachment, since there is only two Intercessor squads in the box. Should you get the opportunity to trade for an extra set, you can consider bringing three squads and use a Battalion detachment instead.
argonak wrote: For a 1k force, whats the best thing to add to the Primaris from Dark Imperium? I bit the bullet today and ordered the boxed set.
I'm thinking I could use another intercessor squad and some hellblasters? Maybe the Aggressor? Should I just try and trade the nurgle for another DA primaris set?
I mostly play at 1k points, so the redemptor and repulsor are a bit too high in points for me.
I would recommend trading the Nurgle part for another primaris set. That gives you extra Intercessors and Hellblasters that you would want in a bigger list, plus extra characters you can convert to a non-gravis captain/Apothecary/Librarian or even a Techmarine if you need to and feel up to the job/have some useful bits.
If you switch around some arms and position the heads differently, you can make the Dark Imperium mono-pose marines different enough that they don't look like duplicates.
In terms of what you could do for a 1000pts army with the Dark Imperium primaris marines, I went for the Redemptor dreadnought. It looks awesome, is a very nice kit and has pretty nice stats. Only thing is that if you have any old dreadnoughts, they will look like midgets next to it. :-)
A 1000pts list could look like this:
HQ Primaris Captain +Master-crafted power sword + Boltstorm gauntlet gauntlet
Lieutenant (non-primaris)
TROOPS
Intercessor squad A +Bolt rifle
Intercessor squad B +Bolt rifle
ELITES
Redemptor Dreadnought +H. gatling cannon +Gatling cannon +Icarus + Stormbolterx2
Primaris Ancient
HEAVY
Hellblaster squad +Plasma incinerator x5
FAST
Inceptor squad +Assault bolterx2 x3
--998pts
Mind you the Lt. has to stand-in as a non primaris Lieutenant, as there is not enough points to buy a primaris one. But that uses what's in the box plus a dreadnought.
Unfortunately you'll have to use a Patrol detachment, since there is only two Intercessor squads in the box. Should you get the opportunity to trade for an extra set, you can consider bringing three squads and use a Battalion detachment instead.
Thanks for the advice. I've been back and forth on what to do with my old space marines, I never had many to begin with. Just Black Reach plus space hulk and a little more. I saw some Primaris in the flesh on the weekend though, and there just isn't any comparison between the two models, its night and day. I may just sell them off on ebay.
edit: Man, I only just ordered it and found someone on facebook nearby who wants to trade for the nurgle dudes. That was easy. So I should end up with two boxes of Primaris no sweat.
I actually find Hellblasters to be some of the best anti-tank/monster we have. I go for the Rhino Primaris buff over the captain generally, and run a ten man squad... But having both is easy. Against a Land Raider in RF range this will kill it in a single turn of shooting on average. That isn't bad. 6 Plasma Inceptors with a captain deep striking with them, or the Ultra Stratagem, will do really well for anti tank too. I am disappointed in the heavy version of Intercessors and Hellblasters, as well as the Reivers, but overall I really like the Primaris units. On topic of what to add to make them better I usually throw in Devastators, Contemptors, or Vanguard Vets to supplement them. Devastators just because I like diversity over just taking 25 Hellblasters. Really the characters are all I usually pass on. I go for the cheaper power armor variants.
Captain in Gravis Armour Primaris Lieutenant Primaris Lieutenant Primaris Librarian Primaris Ancient
5x Intercessors 5x Intercessors 5x Intercessors
10x Hellblasters 3x Inceptors 3x Inceptors
3x Aggressors 2x Lascannon Predators (yeah not pure Primaris but two of these are too good not to take)
The standouts were the Hellblasters and Predators. Both have an INSANE damage output when re-Rolling 1s both to Hit and Wound. The Preds took out a vehicle each a turn, and one turn one of them took out two... simply insane for the points.
The Captain and Lieutenants were invaluable buff machines. Both are auto-take IMO, especially for buffing Plasma and Lascannons (low-shot, high strength weapons). I forgot to ever use the Ancient's ability The Librarian killed Celestine twice so he's a hero in my book.
Intercessors are great objective holders, very durable especially in cover and can put out some very damaging fire and even hold their own when they get charged.
The Inceptors are ok but way too fragile for the points, same for the Aggressors. Probably won't be using either much in the future.
So in summary: Hellblasters and Predators are crazy. Characters are so good for buffing. Intercessors are great troops. Rest felt meh.
Had a silly game my self with full primarus against chaos.
had to fight a lord of skull. jesus the wounds.
key note was chaptermaster upgrade next to laspulsor and hell blasters. they ended up doing 20 odd wounds to it, followed by it charging my repulsor and dieing to overwatch. on turn one.
chapter master level power is dumb good. so is the hellblaster. repulsor just got lucky with all the plink shots.
At this point I'm thinking a Predator is going to be a requirement in Primaris armies for some time to come, or some other kind of dedicated AT. Stormtalons and Whirlwinds also come to mind, what with how powerful the manticore is.
I'm going to try using multiple small squads of Heavy Hellblasters as soft anti-vehicle too.
Captain in Gravis Armour
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Ancient
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
10x Hellblasters
3x Inceptors
3x Inceptors
3x Aggressors
2x Lascannon Predators (yeah not pure Primaris but two of these are too good not to take)
The standouts were the Hellblasters and Predators. Both have an INSANE damage output when re-Rolling 1s both to Hit and Wound. The Preds took out a vehicle each a turn, and one turn one of them took out two... simply insane for the points.
The Captain and Lieutenants were invaluable buff machines. Both are auto-take IMO, especially for buffing Plasma and Lascannons (low-shot, high strength weapons). I forgot to ever use the Ancient's ability The Librarian killed Celestine twice so he's a hero in my book.
Intercessors are great objective holders, very durable especially in cover and can put out some very damaging fire and even hold their own when they get charged.
The Inceptors are ok but way too fragile for the points, same for the Aggressors. Probably won't be using either much in the future.
So in summary: Hellblasters and Predators are crazy. Characters are so good for buffing. Intercessors are great troops. Rest felt meh.
I've been surprised by Intercessors as troops as well. They hold the line and require a good amount of resources to put them down, but not a broken amount of resources either.
Just wish their Aux Grenade Launcher didn't count as their grenade throwing though.
Captain in Gravis Armour
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Ancient
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
10x Hellblasters
3x Inceptors
3x Inceptors
3x Aggressors
2x Lascannon Predators (yeah not pure Primaris but two of these are too good not to take)
I run a 1500 point list minus the Aggressors, Inceptors, and Ancient; also I added one more squad of Intercessors. So far it has faired pretty well. My concern is the lack of bodies, but that is to be expected with elite of elite space marines. I have been pretty happy so far. Currently debating the usage of the librarian. The Librarian powers seem kind of just okay. They are usually great force multipliers. I am hoping the supplementary codexes (BA, SM, DA) add some better powers to choose from.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I've been surprised by Intercessors as troops as well. They hold the line and require a good amount of resources to put them down, but not a broken amount of resources either.
Just wish their Aux Grenade Launcher didn't count as their grenade throwing though.
They have been great, the two wounds and that -1 AP on their bolters have made them pretty awesome objective holders, definitely a bigger fan of them over a full tactical squad (although I would think a tactical squad would be more cost efficient). The trade off of the grenade launcher is definitely worth it IMHO. It basically is your grenade throw, just upped distance like crazy. The fact that it is a free upgrade is pretty awesome too. I have so far gone undefeated with my Primaris at under 1k (had a close game against an Ork Horde). This is also considering we play objectives not just a drag out deathmatch.
They have been great, the two wounds and that -1 AP on their bolters have made them pretty awesome objective holders, definitely a bigger fan of them over a full tactical squad (although I would think a tactical squad would be more cost efficient). The trade off of the grenade launcher is definitely worth it IMHO. It basically is your grenade throw, just upped distance like crazy. The fact that it is a free upgrade is pretty awesome too. I have so far gone undefeated with my Primaris at under 1k (had a close game against an Ork Horde). This is also considering we play objectives not just a drag out deathmatch.
Don't the Grenade Launchers cost 1pt? I know its not much, but they aren't free? unless I'm missing something.....
They have been great, the two wounds and that -1 AP on their bolters have made them pretty awesome objective holders, definitely a bigger fan of them over a full tactical squad (although I would think a tactical squad would be more cost efficient). The trade off of the grenade launcher is definitely worth it IMHO. It basically is your grenade throw, just upped distance like crazy. The fact that it is a free upgrade is pretty awesome too. I have so far gone undefeated with my Primaris at under 1k (had a close game against an Ork Horde). This is also considering we play objectives not just a drag out deathmatch.
Don't the Grenade Launchers cost 1pt? I know its not much, but they aren't free? unless I'm missing something.....
Yes, but it's not written in the codex - they forgot. You'd only know that you needed to pay a point for it if you bothered to read the online FAQ.
Good to see that everyone feels the same as I do about intercessors anyway. They really do precisely the job you want troops to do.
Interesting on the chapter master. I'm debating whether to put Pedro Kantor into my Crimson Fist list for an upcoming tournament. The difference he'd make to overwatch is immense, and it would be no bad thing to have all those rerolls handed out as well. I don't play 100% primaris, obviously, but I almost do!
I picked up a dreadnought, predator and Primaris librarian to add on to my DI starter force. So far intercessors have been fantastic for me. They’ve given both of my regular opponents fits because they are hard to shift, and actually fare reasonably well in melee if you don’t expect miracles. They also don’t get targeted as much as you might expect because things like plasma and exocrine etc. are focused on tougher nuts, like Hellblasters. I’m going to pickup another dread and some aggressors to try them out (bolters are the direction I’m leaning). I’m not sure what to do with the librarian as the powers don’t seem too great but I need more than santic halo for deny the witch. The ven dread is going to have twin autocannon and twin lascannon, the predator will have autocannon and las sponsons, my hope is to balance anti-tank and anti heavy infantry across two platforms rather than one target having 4 lascannons and my AT capability being crippled after the loss of a single model (keep in mind we are only currently playing 1k).
I'm questioning my librarian too. The main good thing about him is null zone, which can sometimes be game-winning. But the rest of the time he's actually kind of mediocre.
And even null zone is at its best against armies like GKs and daemons, which are pretty good at denying the witch and cancelling it. Plus you can't rely on casting it, even if you have CPs to burn for rerolls.
Too true; null zone seems reasonably good, might of heroes has situational benefits thanks to the new way S/T interact, and outside of those everything is average to bad. Veil of time is ok, but there are only so many units that are worthy of having it cast on them as many marine units hit like pillows. The mortal wound protection of psychic fortress is decent, while the morale aspect of it is completely unnecessary. Fury of the ancients is something I’d never take.
I like having more bodies at the lower points. If I am going against an elite heavy list, I typically trade in some Intercessors for more hellblasters, or trade in the hellblasters for another las predator.
Deathwatch101 wrote:
Don't the Grenade Launchers cost 1pt? I know its not much, but they aren't free? unless I'm missing something.....
I know it cost 1 point, I still refer to it as 'free' due to its' immense bonus versus cost.
I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).
Bremon wrote: I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).
Yeah venerable dreadnoughts are good. Personally I prefer the Contemptor Mortis as a gun platform. You get the 2+ BS but combined with CTs and 4 lascannons. In a RG army it's fantastic.
When predators are good is when you have 3 of them, a warlord with the trait that gives another -1ap on a 6 to wound, and you pop the kill shot stratagem. Suddenly you have autocannons doing 4 wounds, lascannons wounding everything on a 2+, better ap on a 5 or 6 to wound. Things die, fast. Downside is having to have all your big guns in one place - though actually they are somewhat mobile. My friend used this for his iron hands and found the only problem was that his warlord couldn't keep up.
Another interesting option is the Xiphon. I've recently painted mine up and only used it once, but on paper it's a beauty (or a piece of broken FW filth, depending on which side of the board you're on). It costs 20 points more than a predator but has another scary gun. It has the exact same profile as a predator - but then it piles on a ton of special rules. It flies, it gets +1 to hit other planes (with no penalty against ground targets), you can't charge it unless you can fly and even then it can fall back and still shoot - and for no reason at all it doesn't suffer a penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons.
I've given mine a pilot made out of a Hellblaster. He just about fits in the cockpit. So I get to claim that it's relevant to this discussion of primaris-only tactics
Bremon wrote: I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).
I agree. A single Las Predator at 1k is not optimal. I have rarely lost it though by turn 3 (played about 6 games, lost it twice in turn 2). Additionally, the direct fire that it can consume is usually split with the impending hellblaster doom. The only thing We have to be careful of is reserve/deep striking. One of the times I lost it was due to some DSing terminators in my back field (rookie mistake). Usually by the time I have lost it, it has inflicted enough pain to justify its' cost.
Good to know. I think my plan for 1k in the near term is to remove Hellblasters and run both the Ven Dread and Pred; the Pred autocannon and twin autocannon aren’t perfect substitutes for plasma by any means but force my opponent to require more anti tank, which helps my infantry stay alive, can touch things further away, and don’t fry themselves lol. I’ll let you guys know how it goes. Hellblasters have mostly been MVPs for me but they are a bit squishier than I’d like, and 3’ range means lots of mean things can slap them back.
Bremon wrote: I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).
I agree. A single Las Predator at 1k is not optimal. I have rarely lost it though by turn 3 (played about 6 games, lost it twice in turn 2). Additionally, the direct fire that it can consume is usually split with the impending hellblaster doom. The only thing We have to be careful of is reserve/deep striking. One of the times I lost it was due to some DSing terminators in my back field (rookie mistake). Usually by the time I have lost it, it has inflicted enough pain to justify its' cost.
That’s a fantastic point, and is a strong reason to retain Hellblasters in the list. The 1k I’m going to try a couple times in the near future that stratagem will likely be used by aggressors in most cases. We’ll see how things play out!
Bremon wrote: True; modifiers after rerolls really is a stinker where that’s concerned as the captain buff doesn’t help as much.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the modifiers after rerolls doesn't affect the reroll from a captain (reroll 1s). It does suck when the second roll results are 2's AND 1's counting as Gets Hot's model removal.
However, if you are simply looking at it from a Captian helping you avoid the first set of 1s, it's still good to have a captain/CM. The CM becomes slightly less effective since you can't reroll the 3s.
Edit for elaboration:
Spoiler:
While in Captain's aura:
First roll of 6 dice: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
Second roll (the reroll 1's): A single 4+
You rerolled the '1'. You get a 4+. The natural 3 (from the first set) is a miss due to modifiers. You have a total of 4 hits. It would only have been 3 hits if not for the captain.
While in Chapter Master's aura:
First roll of 6 dice: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
Second roll (the reroll ALL misses): ((To clarify the 3 in this situation is a hit and you reroll the '1' and '2')) 4 - 6
You rerolled the '1' and '2' since those are misses. You get a 4 and a 6. You have a total of 5 hits. It would only have been 3 hits if not for the Chapter Master.
The 2 examples are just scenario to display the modifier interaction with rerolls, not a means of averages.
Sorry if that made things more complicated but I hope that helps clear up the fact that the Captain is still loads better than nothing. Especially if he gets is Aura on 2 or more Hellblaster units.
CM is good; but with a captain any 2 in your first batch of rolls is not re-rolled; it isn’t a one until *after* rerolls are completed, unless I’ve misunderstood the way things work. So rapid fire: 10 shots, 2 1s, 2 2s, then 6 4-6, you’re guaranteed 2 dead models and can only reroll the 1s, each of which also has a 33% chance of killing someone.
Bremon wrote: CM is good; but with a captain any 2 in your first batch of rolls is not re-rolled; it isn’t a one until *after* rerolls are completed, unless I’ve misunderstood the way things work. So rapid fire: 10 shots, 2 1s, 2 2s, then 6 4-6, you’re guaranteed 2 dead models and can only reroll the 1s, each of which also has a 33% chance of killing someone.
Any 3s in the first patch are not rerolled** - I typed out an explanation in a spoiler to clarify.
I agree that the Captain doesn't help againt the natural 2's since he doesn't let you reroll them and will intern die from the Gets Hots, but the Captain still allows natural 1s to be rerolled. If your sole purpose is to keep Hellblasters alive (from a -1 to hit modifier) your best bet is to spend the 3 CPs to make him a Chapter Master as it will lessen the chances of them dying to 1's and 2's.
Yes, I believe we are in agreement on how things work, and I still think the captain is a great buff unit. I was simply lamenting the idea of any 2 in a captain aura with a -1 to hit not counting as a 1 until after re-rolls are completed. Following that logic every 2 rolled is actually a dead die, as it is not rerolled, and once rerolls are completed those natural 2s represent dead Hellblasters once the modifier is applied. A Chapter Master is far more helpful in those circumstances.
Bremon wrote: Yes, I believe we are in agreement on how things work, and I still think the captain is a great buff unit. I was simply lamenting the idea of any 2 in a captain aura with a -1 to hit not counting as a 1 until after re-rolls are completed. Following that logic every 2 rolled is actually a dead die, as it is not rerolled, and once rerolls are completed those natural 2s represent dead Hellblasters once the modifier is applied. A Chapter Master is far more helpful in those circumstances.
Throw in an ancient with a relic banner for extra fun and shots on a 3+ as you kill your own dude
@desubot lol! I’ve used the apothecary to reasonable success in a handful of games but have yet to use the ancient. Now the wheels are turning. Does the “victim” make a single shot, or shoot as normal with a single weapon? Can a Hellblaster rapid fire? Can an aggressor shoot 6 shots (each glove is technically a separate weapon, no?).
@desubot lol! I’ve used the apothecary to reasonable success in a handful of games but have yet to use the ancient. Now the wheels are turning. Does the “victim” make a single shot, or shoot as normal with a single weapon? Can a Hellblaster rapid fire? Can an aggressor shoot 6 shots (each glove is technically a separate weapon, no?).
Man, GW had a pretty good strategy if their plan was to subplant the regular Marines with Primaris Marines. I find my lists are becoming more and more composed of Primaris units. It will never be 100% as long as Pedro exists, and it'll be a cold day in hell before my Lascannon Devastators go anywhere either. However, I removed the Scouts that have been the cornerstone of my army going back to when I first started playing. If Primaris could ride in regular transports, I think I would be replacing my two Combi-Weapon Sternguard Squads with Hellblasters (basically would be performing the same job for the same amount of points and have twice the wounds). Honestly, I might end up doing that anyway (though it would increase my drops since the Sternguard start in Razorbacks and the Razorbacks would still be in the list), which is kind of a shame.
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
Agreed. I am not looking for a gunboat when it comes to SM transports. I would have liked a Repulsor with no turret and just the heavy Bolters on the front.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
Agreed. I am not looking for a gunboat when it comes to SM transports. I would have liked a Repulsor with no turret and just the heavy Bolters on the front.
REALLLLLYL wished the repulsor was a duel kit with an alterntive no top hatch. make it cheaper for the reduction in guns.
on a side note i REALLY hate using the repulsor. not because its bad but because it takes a good 5 minutes alone just trying to get through all the guns it has.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
Agreed. I am not looking for a gunboat when it comes to SM transports. I would have liked a Repulsor with no turret and just the heavy Bolters on the front.
REALLLLLYL wished the repulsor was a duel kit with an alterntive no top hatch. make it cheaper for the reduction in guns.
on a side note i REALLY hate using the repulsor. not because its bad but because it takes a good 5 minutes alone just trying to get through all the guns it has.
I like the general appearance (I HATE the asymmetry though). I agree on the gun count. And if it let a frickin' CHAPTER MASTER have the keys to it, I would be happy. Honestly, I would be running three of them if they allowed regular Marines to ride inside. Instead, I have zero purchased and it is staying that way.
In other news, I decided to go with the two Hellblaster Squads instead of the Combi-Weapon Sternguard. Much more versatile and much easier to paint (one of the major hangups for getting my army table-ready is how much of a pain in the ass Sternguard are to paint). That brings me to greater than half my army being Primaris Marines. I suppose it is fitting for the Crimson Fists.
Personally I feel the opposite way about the repulsor, in fluff terms at least. I've always felt that rhinos were a ridiculously awful vehicle for marines to travel around in.
The idea of having humanity's ultimate special forces carted around in a box on tracks with barely any armour or armament is absurd. Even the guard have always had a far superior vehicle in the chimera. Better armour, far more armament, and it's even amphibious. This is a culture that sticks a twin autocannon on a civilian truck - and sometimes a heavy stubber as well.
Land raiders, storm ravens, repulsors and land speeder storms for stealth approaches are appropriate transports for marines. A rhino does absolutely nothing that those others don't.
Anyway rant over. I definitely agree that actually firing the damn thing in a game is a pain. I've taken the approach of trying to lump together guns where I can - say for instance the onslaught gatling cannon and the ironhail stubber(s) if firing at MEQs, as they need the same rolls to hit and wound. Same with fragstorms and storm bolters. I actually came close to putting fragstorms on instead of storm bolters, so I could do all 5 of the things together, but ultimately I thought it was a waste of points. I wouldn't dream of giving it an icarus missile pod or ironhail on the back, forcing myself to find a flyer to fire at to no noticeable effect.
Agreed with you guys. The fact you need a cheat sheet for its damn weapons loadout is a joke. And it’s got so many guns you’ll inevitably forget to shoot some anyway lol. It just looks far too busy for my tastes. If it looked like a hybrid between a razorback and a land raider I’d be happy as a big in you-know-what. Instead I have a lot of infantry with some weapons platforms that look a touch small with Intercessors and Hellblasters standing near them lol.
I just have the fewer type of guns on Repulsor as possible, so for my tank I remember it this way: 24 S5 AP-1 shots, 6 or 12 plus 2D6 bolter shots, 3 bolt rifle shots, and 2 Krak Grenade shots. 4 types of weapons.
Actually I find it better than a LRC for almost the same points. With Guiliman buffing it nearby this dakka skimmer tank can easily one shot a Non-Nurgle Daemon Prince if positioned right.
Neophyte2012 wrote: I just have the fewer type of guns on Repulsor as possible, so for my tank I remember it this way: 24 S5 AP-1 shots, 6 or 12 plus 2D6 bolter shots, 3 bolt rifle shots, and 2 Krak Grenade shots. 4 types of weapons.
I think it’s possible to get it down to 3 different types of weapons (but I wouldn’t)
The HB/gatlings S5 AP-1 guns
The SB/fragstorm S4 ap - guns
The Krackstoms (that you can’t do anything about.)
Then it’s just about checking for range to see how many shots you get.
I do think it’s worth keeping the AA launcher, as there is probably something that flies in range that could use it. But as I’m in the process of building mine right now I decided against the co-ax stubber. Sure, it’s more firepower and doesn’t take a slot. But from a speed of play POV didn’t seem worth including. (Helped by the fact that IMHO marines should not be using stubbers, even fancy ones)
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
I've read the thread and I've seen pros and cons of the individual units.
I plan to build up a Primaris army.
But how about tactics? How do you play this army? Foot slogging a slow way to die.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.
While this is true, Stormravens can carry Centurions and Terminators, both of which are at least as bulky as Primaris, if not moreso.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.
While this is true, Stormravens can carry Centurions and Terminators, both of which are at least as bulky as Primaris, if not moreso.
Hey, you guys wanted your fears quelled about Primaris replacing regular Marines. You get what you want, and then they'd be slowly replaced.
They just need a cheaper option for transport is all.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.
While this is true, Stormravens can carry Centurions and Terminators, both of which are at least as bulky as Primaris, if not moreso.
Hey, you guys wanted your fears quelled about Primaris replacing regular Marines. You get what you want, and then they'd be slowly replaced.
They just need a cheaper option for transport is all.
I didn't get what I wanted, nor was I ever fearful of Primaris replacing regular Marines. That's actually what I wanted, personally. But I can see what you mean to say, even if the generalization missed the mark by a mile.
They do need a cheaper transport option, but in lieu of that, and without having to include a brand new model kit, wouldn't adding them to LR and Stormravens suffice, with whatever Primaris tax ends up being balanced?
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.
And yet, for reasons unknown, those magna grapnels on the back of the Stormraven BB can't stick to a Redemptor. Keep in mind, a Furioso with magna grapnels still gets a charge bonus against a Redemptor.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
Well, I wouldn't call it a flaw. The 40k universe is as it is. We have to live with it.
I'd like to get around this ''flaw'' and try to build a competitive army with Primaris Marines as part of my BA.
Any tips and hints there?
I'd like to get around this ''flaw'' and try to build a competitive army with Primaris Marines as part of my BA.
Any tips and hints there?
It seems to be that the best way to use Primaris is as to supplement your current army. Take their "stronger" units and add them as you see fit for your army. I am still playing at 1k and under, so my entire army is Primaris and has been doing pretty well for me. I rely heavily on hellblasters and intercessors along with the lts and captain to buff them. It becomes more of a foot-slog shooting army, but has done well, especially on 4x4 tables. Eventually plan on adding Guilliman (going to do a Sanguinius conversion though) to see how he fleshes out. I will also probably supplement the army with either Storm Ravens, terminators, and/or predators when I move to 1500 points.
Would love for the BA to get a buff when it comes to assault though so I could have a good CC unit to balance out the shooting, but I will have to wait until the codex drops for that.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.
And yet, for reasons unknown, those magna grapnels on the back of the Stormraven BB can't stick to a Redemptor. Keep in mind, a Furioso with magna grapnels still gets a charge bonus against a Redemptor.
Well to be fair, a redemptor is massive compared to other dreads. It's not that it isn't magnetic - just that it's too heavy.
That said, I definitely agree that primaris should be allowed in storm ravens and land raiders. Or else give them a new flying transport like the storm raven. Maybe even go nuts and make a lord of war flyer 1.5 or 2x a storm raven's size.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.
The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.
And yet, for reasons unknown, those magna grapnels on the back of the Stormraven BB can't stick to a Redemptor. Keep in mind, a Furioso with magna grapnels still gets a charge bonus against a Redemptor.
Well to be fair, a redemptor is massive compared to other dreads. It's not that it isn't magnetic - just that it's too heavy.
That said, I definitely agree that primaris should be allowed in storm ravens and land raiders. Or else give them a new flying transport like the storm raven. Maybe even go nuts and make a lord of war flyer 1.5 or 2x a storm raven's size.
Bremon wrote: Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.
Well, I wouldn't call it a flaw. The 40k universe is as it is. We have to live with it.
I'd like to get around this ''flaw'' and try to build a competitive army with Primaris Marines as part of my BA.
Any tips and hints there?
I’m currently playing 750-1k games and the DI box forms the basis of my army. Using cover, Capt. and Lt. re-rolls has been key for me. 4x4 table means you can usually get 2 objectives, potentially three by games end and have a bonus point or two such as Firsr Blood. Intercessors have been very durable for me, Hellblasters consistently put in work meaning they are a high priority target for my enemies. Inceptors have been underwhelming, so I leave them out most of the time. They are good for late game objective grabbing if you’ve sat on them for a bit, but leaving 180 points out of my army for 2 turns has been difficult. Once they land 10” move with jet packs isn’t as great as it could be. Aggressors I’m keen on currently, I’ve only used them once but seem like they have real potential. I have no interest in Reivers due to their models. A predator and dreadnoughts mean I haven’t stuck solely to Primaris, and I also have a Librarian I haven’t used yet.
Bremon wrote: Agreed with you guys. The fact you need a cheat sheet for its damn weapons loadout is a joke. And it’s got so many guns you’ll inevitably forget to shoot some anyway lol. It just looks far too busy for my tastes. If it looked like a hybrid between a razorback and a land raider I’d be happy as a big in you-know-what. Instead I have a lot of infantry with some weapons platforms that look a touch small with Intercessors and Hellblasters standing near them lol.
I forget to shoot the iron hail in roughly 2/3 of the games I've used it in
Well, I think that Primaris Marines are good close quarter fighters. They can excel especially at 4x4 tables.
I plan an add-on detachment to my BA army. Frankly, I dislike the Tactical Marines. BA Tacticals have access to the heavy flamer which is not something to overlook. But Intersessors have better guns and are more durable. One could use them to hold a flank or even the centre.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, I think that Primaris Marines are good close quarter fighters. They can excel especially at 4x4 tables.
I plan an add-on detachment to my BA army. Frankly, I dislike the Tactical Marines. BA Tacticals have access to the heavy flamer which is not something to overlook. But Intersessors have better guns and are more durable. One could use them to hold a flank or even the centre.
Yeah cant underestimate it
a 5man can have a surprising number of bolter swings in and the power sword is nice on the sarge.
I haven't got any games with my Primaris in yet (last couple games have been with my guard, still painting the marines up anyway), but is a Librarian worth bringing?
The Space Marine spell list seems a bit. . . meh.
Veil of Time and Might of Heroes look good, but that's about it. Thoughts?
I don't have a Repulsor yet, but I was thinking a Librarian in a Repulsor with some Aggressors might make a nasty (if extremely expensive) fist to punch someone with.
argonak wrote: I haven't got any games with my Primaris in yet (last couple games have been with my guard, still painting the marines up anyway), but is a Librarian worth bringing?
The Space Marine spell list seems a bit. . . meh.
Veil of Time and Might of Heroes look good, but that's about it. Thoughts?
I don't have a Repulsor yet, but I was thinking a Librarian in a Repulsor with some Aggressors might make a nasty (if extremely expensive) fist to punch someone with.
Depends
If fighting things that heavily depends on invul saves its REALLY nice to have and he is not a pushover in CC with that forcesword. Took out helbrecht in a single fight as i had nullzone on.
as well its really the only way besides black Templar to deny. take a null zone if fighting invul fighty type things, take what ever new jaws is called to cheese out special weapons (IIRC), might of heros is kinda meh. veil can be clutch. otherwise there is nothing bad about smooting out a few mortal wounds.
I haven't got any games with my Primaris in yet (last couple games have been with my guard, still painting the marines up anyway), but is a Librarian worth bringing?
A Librarian is always worth bringing.
Smite is always welcome and nullifying an enemy power is also worth it.
My Primaris Librarian more than earned his keep in my first Primaris battle. Might of Heroes was star of the show on several turns, keeping intercessors alive in the face of otherwise extremely strong threats.
I ran the following:
Gravis Captain
Primaris Librarian
3 5 man Intercessor Squads with Bolt Rifle and Auxiliary Grenade Launchers
1 Redemptor
1 5 man Hellblaster Squad.
My opponent was playing orks for the first time and his list wasn't remotely optimal, but we had a good time. The intercessors did solid work holding the battle line and fighting in melee.
I'm a bit at a loss at what to do about deep strikes. I simply didn't have remotely enough troops to create any kind of safety bubble. Any suggestions on how to deploy with that in mind?
I'm thinking about bringing 5 Primaris Reviers next time as just a counter-deep strike squad, to hit whoever my opponent jumps me with on my following turn. Or possibly inceptors for the same job.
argonak wrote: My Primaris Librarian more than earned his keep in my first Primaris battle. Might of Heroes was star of the show on several turns, keeping intercessors alive in the face of otherwise extremely strong threats.
I ran the following:
Gravis Captain
Primaris Librarian
3 5 man Intercessor Squads with Bolt Rifle and Auxiliary Grenade Launchers
1 Redemptor
1 5 man Hellblaster Squad.
My opponent was playing orks for the first time and his list wasn't remotely optimal, but we had a good time. The intercessors did solid work holding the battle line and fighting in melee.
I'm a bit at a loss at what to do about deep strikes. I simply didn't have remotely enough troops to create any kind of safety bubble. Any suggestions on how to deploy with that in mind?
I'm thinking about bringing 5 Primaris Reviers next time as just a counter-deep strike squad, to hit whoever my opponent jumps me with on my following turn. Or possibly inceptors for the same job.
Glad to hear you are enjoying the army. I usually try to not spread out too much for deep strike. I try to bait my opponent with one of my intercessor squads actually. I then fallback and have all my rapid fire go for it. This is proven pretty successful so far (had my hellblasters wipe 3 terminators in overwatch last game). I also play tactical objective games, so this usually leads to my opponent DSing near an objective sometimes. I would suggest against the inceptors and the Reviers, so far for their points, they suck for me. I have tried to make them work. The intercessors get a turn or two of good shooting, then die; they are just too expensive. The Reviers are just very lackluster. I believe SM still lack a good melee unit really. I think the backbone/solid core of Primaris is the Intercessor and Hellblasters, and honestly their weapons. How is the Redemptor going for you? I have yet to get one, they have peaked my curiosity, just don't like how much more expensive they are points wise vs a dreadnought.
argonak wrote: My Primaris Librarian more than earned his keep in my first Primaris battle. Might of Heroes was star of the show on several turns, keeping intercessors alive in the face of otherwise extremely strong threats.
I ran the following:
Gravis Captain
Primaris Librarian
3 5 man Intercessor Squads with Bolt Rifle and Auxiliary Grenade Launchers
1 Redemptor
1 5 man Hellblaster Squad.
My opponent was playing orks for the first time and his list wasn't remotely optimal, but we had a good time. The intercessors did solid work holding the battle line and fighting in melee.
I'm a bit at a loss at what to do about deep strikes. I simply didn't have remotely enough troops to create any kind of safety bubble. Any suggestions on how to deploy with that in mind?
I'm thinking about bringing 5 Primaris Reviers next time as just a counter-deep strike squad, to hit whoever my opponent jumps me with on my following turn. Or possibly inceptors for the same job.
Glad to hear you are enjoying the army. I usually try to not spread out too much for deep strike. I try to bait my opponent with one of my intercessor squads actually. I then fallback and have all my rapid fire go for it. This is proven pretty successful so far (had my hellblasters wipe 3 terminators in overwatch last game). I also play tactical objective games, so this usually leads to my opponent DSing near an objective sometimes. I would suggest against the inceptors and the Reviers, so far for their points, they suck for me. I have tried to make them work. The intercessors get a turn or two of good shooting, then die; they are just too expensive. The Reviers are just very lackluster. I believe SM still lack a good melee unit really. I think the backbone/solid core of Primaris is the Intercessor and Hellblasters, and honestly their weapons. How is the Redemptor going for you? I have yet to get one, they have peaked my curiosity, just don't like how much more expensive they are points wise vs a dreadnought.
The Redemptor was a bit disappointing, but I used him wrong. I deployed him forward, thinking to fire and fall back, but then realized I wouldn't be able to fall back fast enough so I stupidly charged his battlewagon. Not a good move at all. I wrecked the wagon, but it didn't matter, he was able to surround the Redemptor so it couldn't fall back and his warbosses chopped it to bits. The Redemptor did some damage, but once it started to get hurt it just degraded to the point of uselessness.
I think thats its real weakness, is that it degrades. Next time I'm going to deploy it to the rear as long range fire support with the Hellblasters, although I'll probably be facing Chaos or normal Space Marines in that game. We mostly play 1k games as anything larger just eats up too much time and we're all dads who don't get a lot of game time.
I’ve had some really good results with my repulsor. I’m planning to get a second – though not especially looking forward to having to build it! Cleaning the mould lines off all of those bits of track (or whatever you call them) takes an age.
Anyway, in game it’s a great unit. It’s just so useful to have a transport for hellblasters, and at the same time a big tough tank that can lock enemy shooting units in melee. My army has become a lot more dangerous since I’ve started using my repulsor and storm raven to lock up stuff.
This goes double against castled-up gunlines, where you can charge one unit and consolidate to lock one or more others. In my last game I faced a castle featuring 4 razorbacks, 6 rifleman dreads and a predator, with a darkshroud, Azrael and a lieutenant in the middle. On turn 1 I charged my stormraven into a razorback and predator, then consolidated to also lock up a 2nd razorback. Due to how castled up my opponent was, he couldn’t fall back with his tanks so he couldn’t even shoot my stormraven! The following turn my repulsor arrived to take over, while my storm raven zoomed back towards my lines to protect my captain – who was busy running away with the relic.
My opponent couldn’t do anything to stop this. He conceded before even taking his second turn – helped also by the fact that a big chunk of his army was dead by then. Azrael was killed by mortal wounds from three exploding vehicles – which is a definite downside of these kinds of castles!
The other good thing about the repulsor is the sheer amount of firepower that comes out of it. In turn two of that game it took out a dread with its lascannons, mowed down a mortar HWS with dakka and finished off a damaged razorback with krak grenades and its OGC. The dread exloded, starting off the carnage.
I have been thoroughly demotivated after the last few Codex releases at how poor Primaris seem in comparison, both in terms of synergy as well as variety and Stratagems.
Nevertheless, I have been playing them quite extensively since release, so here is what I have learned.
Intercessors are dead'ard. I prefer them over Tacs. The lack of a special weapon is a shame, but their -1AP Bolters do make up for it. I have only ever been running 10, even at 2k, but I was thinking about upgrading them to 20.
Hellblasters are beasts. I can not add to the praise they have been getting.
Aggressors... make me sad. They are such an excellent unit in terms of utility and output, but boy are they soft. 2D and D3 weapons seem to be very common and T5 3+ 2W does not live long. I tried them on multiple occasions and they always fell short. With the resurgence of IG and their AC and Plasma spam, I see no future for this unit. They really need 3W or a 2+.
Same goes for Inceptors.
Reivers are difficult to judge. I usually play an UM deathball with buff auras, so a unit that can deep strike on objectives and harass enemy scoring unit is good. In theory. In practice they always die way before their time. Still, I do like the Carbine + Deep Strike option. A slight drop in points and a less schizo gear loadout would make them very solid.
Repulsor is amazing. Love it. Sure, sometimes it dies prematurely, but most of the time I was to blame. The reason I like it so much is that it can hold a unit of Hellblasters as well as pretty much all characters, allowing me to go first most of the time.
Redemptor... Hm, many people do not rate it, but I really love it as a Dakka platform. Still, I have a hard time including it in my competitive lists.
The Ancient is very solid. The apothecary? Never found the point for it. I do not consider 4+ for an extra model to be worth jt. We need a Primaris Techmarine instead.
The HQs are alright. The lack of customization is horrible though, but they get the job done.
Units that I include from outside of the Primaris roster:
Scouts - Perfect to prevent deep strikes from getting close as well as making use of the Hellfire Stratagem.
Razorbacks - Unfortunately still among, of not the, most efficient heavy weapons platform. For the cost of 1 Dakkatemptor I can get 2 of those. They also allow me to get Scouts in there to lower the amount of drops.
Tigurius - For only 25pts over a Primaris Psyker I get -1 hit on a unit of choice, one more denial and far more reliable powers. Unfortunately, that is more efficient.
Techmarine - Cheap HQ that keep the Repulsor up and running as well solid model to carry the Primarch' Wrath.
Calgar - This guy is nuts...
Guilliman - See above.
I usually play in a rather cutthroat setting. Let me say that Primaris do well in a medium setting and are a solid T2 army. But when it comes to high end, it is tough. I played plenty against Ynnari Eldar and it has been tough. Hemlocks eat my Aggressors alive and Dark Reapers really punish 2W models. 10+ Jetbike Autarch Ynnari are a nightmare. Still, most games were very close, but I was losing more often than not.
What is the saving grace? Guilliman. With Guilliman, the army become highly efficient. If supplemented by regular Marines, it becomes downright nasty, to a point where Ynnari are not much of an issue.
But outside of Marine support and even Guilliman, what do they need? Well, Inceptors and Aggressors need a buff to survivability. Reivers need a tweak to their battlefield role and loadout. Intercessors and Hellblasters need more viable Heavy options. The army in general needs more AT, and for the love God, give us customizeable HQs as well as a melee beatstick unit. Primaris TDA would be a start. They could also use better synergy with Stratagems. SM Stratagems in general seem fairly poor compared to other books.
I also wanted to thank everyone here for an enjoyable read. Primaris have the right above all else to be disgruntled with their book, especially in light of Astra Militarum and DG. Your positivity definitely helps me. Here's to Chapter Approved giving Primaris a well needed buff
To add to the poster above, Contemptor Dreads are an excellent addition to a Primaris force. They are fast and punchy, and fill a role the Redemptor just can't seem to fill: that of the frontline beatstick. I have used two in every game since I got them and have never looked back.
Thanks for the feedback, Trade_Prince. My hope is that chapter approved has some tweaks to underperforming units, and I also hope it also nerfs Girlyman.
I think that the issue with Girlyman is actually a problem with auras in general. Girlyman is the biggest problem because he has the biggest aura.
The problem with auras is that they encourage you to put loads of stuff in the aura's radius, so as to benefit from it as much as possible. In a shooting game, that encourages you to stick loads of units in a blob and blaze away at each other, in a pure dice-rolling exercise. This is boring and doesn't make for good games.
Buffs like psychic powers and IG orders don't do that. So armies which work in that way are not incentivised to camp in one spot. They end up being more mobile.
So as broken as the IG codex is, I like its order system far more than stuff like the rites of battle order that marines get. I like the flexibility of being able to order your dudes to do different stuff, and I like how it plays out in practice.
I play without Guilliman, just using a captain with power fist, and it's ok. I like how not everything has to sit in one place to justify my captain's price. But Guilliman is clearly too good in that role and something needs to change.
Aye, I think that sums up Primaris fairly well, especially when played with Guilliman. Numerical efficiency. Re-rolls are strong, but they are not fun.
Having said that, LCs on the Repulsor and Hellblasters rely on those re-rolls to perform well. Outside of those re-rolls Marines in general and Primaris in particular give up their biggest strength when compared to AM, CSM and Eldar, which is effiency per shot fired.
Trade_Prince wrote: Aye, I think that sums up Primaris fairly well, especially when played with Guilliman. Numerical efficiency. Re-rolls are strong, but they are not fun.
Having said that, LCs on the Repulsor and Hellblasters rely on those re-rolls to perform well. Outside of those re-rolls Marines in general and Primaris in particular give up their biggest strength when compared to AM, CSM and Eldar, which is effiency per shot fired.
Agreed. If you change the rerolls you'd have to change a lot else. It's not easy to fix.
I think what I'd ask for is to have characters hand out bonuses to specific units, rather than have them just passively emit them. Maybe any hero could buff one unit, a captain two and a chapter master three - or a better version of the order.
Trade_Prince wrote: Aye, I think that sums up Primaris fairly well, especially when played with Guilliman. Numerical efficiency. Re-rolls are strong, but they are not fun.
Having said that, LCs on the Repulsor and Hellblasters rely on those re-rolls to perform well. Outside of those re-rolls Marines in general and Primaris in particular give up their biggest strength when compared to AM, CSM and Eldar, which is effiency per shot fired.
Agreed. If you change the rerolls you'd have to change a lot else. It's not easy to fix.
I think what I'd ask for is to have characters hand out bonuses to specific units, rather than have them just passively emit them. Maybe any hero could buff one unit, a captain two and a chapter master three - or a better version of the order.
I think there's no reason to throw out the auras. It just needs to not be the clear best or only way to go.
I also noticed that a lot of players play without sufficient terrain, particularly LoS blocking terrain. That severely increases the effective power of these clumps and castle parking lot armies when it's just a showdown at dawn outside the saloon.
The issue is that many stores only have that much big terrain and with GW terrain having a lot of holes and there being no restriction from what point on a model you can fire or aim at, hiding something as big as the Primaris models can be tough.
Then there is all those AM artillery pieces that need no LoS to begin with.
Let's take my bug bear, AM, as an example. Usually, Primaris will finish deploying first and chsnces are good that you go first. Will you risk deploying offensively to deal maximum damage and win, but risk being siezed on and lose? Or will you deploy defensively? You can mitigate a lot of damage when standing in cover. You may not be able to hide, but a 2+ Primaris or Tank will only be shifted by heavy ordnance. But if you hide and go first, chances are that you lose a lot of alpha strike potential, something that can cost you the game.
Like it or not, the is a first turn affair. Thus Primaris need to capitalise on their low drops and kicking the opponent hard, which will carry the risk of deploying offensively and not being able to afford hiding too far away.
Trade_Prince wrote: The issue is that many stores only have that much big terrain and with GW terrain having a lot of holes and there being no restriction from what point on a model you can fire or aim at, hiding something as big as the Primaris models can be tough.
Then there is all those AM artillery pieces that need no LoS to begin with.
Let's take my bug bear, AM, as an example. Usually, Primaris will finish deploying first and chsnces are good that you go first. Will you risk deploying offensively to deal maximum damage and win, but risk being siezed on and lose? Or will you deploy defensively? You can mitigate a lot of damage when standing in cover. You may not be able to hide, but a 2+ Primaris or Tank will only be shifted by heavy ordnance. But if you hide and go first, chances are that you lose a lot of alpha strike potential, something that can cost you the game.
Like it or not, the is a first turn affair. Thus Primaris need to capitalise on their low drops and kicking the opponent hard, which will carry the risk of deploying offensively and not being able to afford hiding too far away.
I agree, a lot of 8th edition's problems come down to terrain being such a variability. Our tables are packed with terrain generally, but then I'm the one who buys it and brings it in a big tub. I have hills, trees, bushes, barricades, and ruined buildings. I'd like to get some craters as well soon, but don't have any yet. As far as infantry go, in our games its more common than not that infantry are getting their +1 to cover. But a lot of the bigger terrain doesn't do a very good job of blocking LOS right now, because it was originally picked up for a game with better terrain rules. We've been tempted to houserule anything more than 75% obscured can't be shot, but we generally don't like house rules.
What's the general consensus on the Redemptor? I hear bad things about it when compared to a Venerable Dread, but it never performed so badly that I wanted to exclude it.
Trade_Prince wrote: What's the general consensus on the Redemptor? I hear bad things about it when compared to a Venerable Dread, but it never performed so badly that I wanted to exclude it.
I own 2, and it was a mistake to buy a second one. First is painted and just bought for completeness for the army.
It is garbage. Perhaps if it had a 2+ save or ignored moving and shooting heavy because of its size, id also consider it. Its best load out is as many heavy bolter shots as possible, which is still meh. Nothing special or unique as Primaris as a whole is a "heavy bolter" army. (As in most guns are heavy bolter stats EOD)
Rather take more marines or more hellblasters. Heck, Intercessors are vastly better then this big turd.
And to that point, while I feel they could drop in points, or all Tubby Primaris get 3W instead of 2W (aggressors/intercessors) Intercessors are pretty great. Lots of shots to kill hordes and even wound decently on vehicles. Using the reroll 1 start for UM ofcourse. Deepstriking down to do that into cover makes it a bit better.
Shame about the redemptors, wont stop me fielding my 2 when they're built though haha.
What (if any) stratagems do people find they are using the most with primaris? aside from the reroll etc. Any good synergies there?
Also, with the might of heroes psychic power, it states in the codex "model" not "unit" but people are mentioning using this power for squads, could someone clarify?
The redemptor hasnt really disappointed me so far. throw out a decent amount of anti infantry dakka, wait for them to get close then charge.
as for stratagems? 5-10 man hellblaster squad with auspex is really dumb. asides from that one i cant think of any generic ones that work well with them.
MoH is one model. unless there was an FAQ or something.
Auspex scan is good on aggressors or hellblasters. Only in Death does Duty End is very useful if people charge and kill your characters.
I tend to cast might of heroes on my repulsor on turn 1. T9 means it's much harder to hurt. Alternatively, making my storm raven T8 can be a big help against lots of armies.
I don't own a redemptor, because they look bad on paper and every report bears that out in practice. If they had potms they'd be usable. As it is, the fact that their stats degrade makes them objectively worse than just about any other dread. Contemptors and the FW ones degrade too, but starting from 2+ WS and BS means they are still viable.
Contemptors are far better beatsticks and there are ~50 different options for a dakka platform in the marine codex that outclass the redemptor.
I wouldn't say they were bad enough to mean you can't win with them. Like anything, they benefit enormously from being near Guilliman. An iron hand one that you used their stratagem on each turn would be ok, especially if there were many other vehicles for your opponent to fire at.
Desubot wrote: The redemptor hasnt really disappointed me so far. throw out a decent amount of anti infantry dakka, wait for them to get close then charge.
as for stratagems? 5-10 man hellblaster squad with auspex is really dumb. asides from that one i cant think of any generic ones that work well with them.
MoH is one model. unless there was an FAQ or something.
Yeah not sure why people dont like the Redemptor, I very much like its extra wounds, survives better than any Dread besides the Contemptor, and puts out great firepower. The trick with it is like you said, shoot with it and charge key targets. Having a squad of Hellblasters near it for auspex scan will save it if your using your Dread to protect a flank against deepstriking units.
Interesting to hear that people are getting good results with the redemptor. I'd definitely be prepared to give one of them a go in my crimson fist army. Those 18 heavy bolter shots ignoring cover would probably do some good.
It's a distinctive model. Maybe it has a place in my army. You can never have too much dakka.
He'd be a pretty good target for might of heroes, now that I think about it. The base strength of 7 is one of the things I like about the contemptor, so the redemptor is sort of almost as good in combat, while having vastly more firepower.
Process wrote: Shame about the redemptors, wont stop me fielding my 2 when they're built though haha.
What (if any) stratagems do people find they are using the most with primaris? aside from the reroll etc. Any good synergies there?
Also, with the might of heroes psychic power, it states in the codex "model" not "unit" but people are mentioning using this power for squads, could someone clarify?
Most Space Marine generic Stratagem are nothing but rubbish compare to other codex offers. The good choice that work for Primaris are even more limited. Maybe the good ones are "Chapter Master", and "Honor the Chapter". The "auspex" might be also ok when enemy deepstrike near your Hellblaster.
If going chapter specific ones, best one may the the "strike from shadow" to deploy your Hellblaster in 15 inches range early on. Or maybe the "bolter drill" if you have some 10 men Intercessor Squad.
Might of Hero is better cast on single model unit with strong combat ability such as Dreadnoughts, or is on one Captain. even better when it moved your toughness value from odd number to even numbers
Its expensive but Bolterdrill might be far better on a full 6man inceptor squad coming out of deep strike.
36 heavy bolters or a 10 man sqaud of terminators or vets with stormbolters for 40 normal bolters
ridiculously expensive but hilarious fun and shouldn't be bad at removing chaff units wholesale.
Auspex should only ever work once. its easy to play around once you know it only works within 12" though you will probably lose out on rapidfire on most things that drop in.
I was disappointed by the Plasma gun on the Redemptor, but the full dakka version has performed well in the games I took it. I need to try it some more though, as in most competitive games I do not risk taking it and instead bring two Razorbacks instead.
As for Stratagems, they make me sad. Compared to literally any other book they are sub-par. They even recycled those dumb three-tank stuff. Noone ever fields three Preds or a single Vindicator in any game I have heard or read about (apologies if there is someone) and noone will buy three of those tanks to to use them. Others are boring and almost none are usable with Primaris.
Most my CP go out on re-rolls. Seeing as I usually run the UM trait, I spam re-rolls on literally everything. Raises the efficiency qutite a bit. The ones from the book I use the Hellfire shot, because I run Scouts, Armour of Contempt in combination with Psychic Fortress against Smite spam, Combat Squad thingy in case I deployed ten men in one unit to finish before my opponent does, sometimes Scions of Guilliman when a unit is not in bubble range, Auspex when the opponent is dumb, the attack-when-hero-dies on Guilliman... and that is pretty much it. Sad but true. The whole book is just plain garbage. Still, no sense whining about it.
Trade_Prince wrote: I was disappointed by the Plasma gun on the Redemptor, but the full dakka version has performed well in the games I took it. I need to try it some more though, as in most competitive games I do not risk taking it and instead bring two Razorbacks instead.
As for Stratagems, they make me sad. Compared to literally any other book they are sub-par. They even recycled those dumb three-tank stuff. Noone ever fields three Preds or a single Vindicator in any game I have heard or read about (apologies if there is someone) and noone will buy three of those tanks to to use them. Others are boring and almost none are usable with Primaris.
Most my CP go out on re-rolls. Seeing as I usually run the UM trait, I spam re-rolls on literally everything. Raises the efficiency qutite a bit. The ones from the book I use the Hellfire shot, because I run Scouts, Armour of Contempt in combination with Psychic Fortress against Smite spam, Combat Squad thingy in case I deployed ten men in one unit to finish before my opponent does, sometimes Scions of Guilliman when a unit is not in bubble range, Auspex when the opponent is dumb, the attack-when-hero-dies on Guilliman... and that is pretty much it. Sad but true. The whole book is just plain garbage. Still, no sense whining about it.
:( I Did. i play imperial fists 3 Vinny is like required
I have gotten some games in with my almost pure primaris force (I use some guardsmen to buffer) and I must say I feel that they are hard carried by the Hellblasters. Those guys do so much work in every match up. Pure Primaris being as limited as it is really does narrow down what you can use if you are looking to be even semi-competitive.
I must say though I am in love with hellblaster, captain and relic banner though on top of salamander CT. Hellblasters overcharge and re-roll ones. If they die for any reason on a 3+ they shoot again with re-rolls.
Trade_Prince wrote: I was disappointed by the Plasma gun on the Redemptor, but the full dakka version has performed well in the games I took it. I need to try it some more though, as in most competitive games I do not risk taking it and instead bring two Razorbacks instead.
As for Stratagems, they make me sad. Compared to literally any other book they are sub-par. They even recycled those dumb three-tank stuff. Noone ever fields three Preds or a single Vindicator in any game I have heard or read about (apologies if there is someone) and noone will buy three of those tanks to to use them. Others are boring and almost none are usable with Primaris.
Most my CP go out on re-rolls. Seeing as I usually run the UM trait, I spam re-rolls on literally everything. Raises the efficiency qutite a bit. The ones from the book I use the Hellfire shot, because I run Scouts, Armour of Contempt in combination with Psychic Fortress against Smite spam, Combat Squad thingy in case I deployed ten men in one unit to finish before my opponent does, sometimes Scions of Guilliman when a unit is not in bubble range, Auspex when the opponent is dumb, the attack-when-hero-dies on Guilliman... and that is pretty much it. Sad but true. The whole book is just plain garbage. Still, no sense whining about it.
:( I Did. i play imperial fists 3 Vinny is like required
No worries, bud. Just trying to make a point that they could've made the Stratagems more flexible and more easily accessible. I can not blame anyone for trying to use what they can. In fact, kudos to those like you. I tend to dwell on negativity far too long and too often :/
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I have gotten some games in with my almost pure primaris force (I use some guardsmen to buffer) and I must say I feel that they are hard carried by the Hellblasters. Those guys do so much work in every match up. Pure Primaris being as limited as it is really does narrow down what you can use if you are looking to be even semi-competitive.
I must say though I am in love with hellblaster, captain and relic banner though on top of salamander CT. Hellblasters overcharge and re-roll ones. If they die for any reason on a 3+ they shoot again with re-rolls.
Do not underestimate the Repulsor and Intercessors though. The former puts out an enormous amoutn dakka while reducing drop count on deployment while the latter are very good at sitting on objectives. Those three units are staples that not even miniMarines can replace. Still working on ways to incorporate the other choices.
Trade_Prince wrote: I was disappointed by the Plasma gun on the Redemptor, but the full dakka version has performed well in the games I took it. I need to try it some more though, as in most competitive games I do not risk taking it and instead bring two Razorbacks instead.
As for Stratagems, they make me sad. Compared to literally any other book they are sub-par. They even recycled those dumb three-tank stuff. Noone ever fields three Preds or a single Vindicator in any game I have heard or read about (apologies if there is someone) and noone will buy three of those tanks to to use them. Others are boring and almost none are usable with Primaris.
Most my CP go out on re-rolls. Seeing as I usually run the UM trait, I spam re-rolls on literally everything. Raises the efficiency qutite a bit. The ones from the book I use the Hellfire shot, because I run Scouts, Armour of Contempt in combination with Psychic Fortress against Smite spam, Combat Squad thingy in case I deployed ten men in one unit to finish before my opponent does, sometimes Scions of Guilliman when a unit is not in bubble range, Auspex when the opponent is dumb, the attack-when-hero-dies on Guilliman... and that is pretty much it. Sad but true. The whole book is just plain garbage. Still, no sense whining about it.
:( I Did. i play imperial fists 3 Vinny is like required
No worries, bud. Just trying to make a point that they could've made the Stratagems more flexible and more easily accessible. I can not blame anyone for trying to use what they can. In fact, kudos to those like you. I tend to dwell on negativity far too long and too often :/
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I have gotten some games in with my almost pure primaris force (I use some guardsmen to buffer) and I must say I feel that they are hard carried by the Hellblasters. Those guys do so much work in every match up. Pure Primaris being as limited as it is really does narrow down what you can use if you are looking to be even semi-competitive.
I must say though I am in love with hellblaster, captain and relic banner though on top of salamander CT. Hellblasters overcharge and re-roll ones. If they die for any reason on a 3+ they shoot again with re-rolls.
Do not underestimate the Repulsor and Intercessors though. The former puts out an enormous amoutn dakka while reducing drop count on deployment while the latter are very good at sitting on objectives. Those three units are staples that not even miniMarines can replace. Still working on ways to incorporate the other choices.
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I use at least 3 intercessor squads per game just to not spam hellblasters and I like them, but from a competitive perspective for just 65 more points you get a very killy unit. You like the Repulsor? I have not tried it as it seems really expensive for the dakka it puts out.
its really expensive and i would of loved a turret less option for a discount but it will do stuff.
cant have enough lascannons amiright?
I was thinking the other day that what the Primaris really need is an upgraded Land Speeder that can carry a 5 man squad. It would fit with their high tech repulsor style. Also Land Speeders are just awesome and I always wanted a reason to use one. Giving them to only scouts always annoyed me.
A 5 Man Land speeder, with Fly and (if we're really greedy) deepstrike would just be such a cool way to move intercessors around the battlefield. Even if it didn't have the open topped rule it would still be a nice option for mobility.
its really expensive and i would of loved a turret less option for a discount but it will do stuff.
cant have enough lascannons amiright?
Not a massive fan of the model, its growing on me, but the lack of high damage options for primaris makes me want one. It'll take a beating and be a perfect delivery for the aggressors or even hellblasters.
I also play fists and wasn't overly stoked about their CT, but after playing a few games with my incredibly un-competitive list the removal of cover really ruins people's plans. It definitely increases the effectiveness of intercessors.
I rate the Repulsor. Highly. The dakka alone might be not worth it, as three Razorbacks can do more. The capacity alone will not do. But all of those combined in a T8 chassis is pretty good. It usually transports 5-7 Hellblasters and 2-3 characters, which is the reason I go first in most games. Next to Razorbacks and Predators it is another source of LCs. though I usually only run the TLC, not the Talon.
The drawback is that it gets targeted quite frequently, so before the big AT guns are silenced, it try to keep it in cover and buff it with Might of Heroes. This is also the reason I like the Tech Marine, apart from being cheap and being able to carry Primarch's Wrath.
Trade_Prince wrote: I rate the Repulsor. Highly. The dakka alone might be not worth it, as three Razorbacks can do more. The capacity alone will not do. But all of those combined in a T8 chassis is pretty good. It usually transports 5-7 Hellblasters and 2-3 characters, which is the reason I go first in most games. Next to Razorbacks and Predators it is another source of LCs. though I usually only run the TLC, not the Talon.
The drawback is that it gets targeted quite frequently, so before the big AT guns are silenced, it try to keep it in cover and buff it with Might of Heroes. This is also the reason I like the Tech Marine, apart from being cheap and being able to carry Primarch's Wrath.
YMMV though.
Why dont you use the talon? surely 2 las shots for 4pts are far more valuable than the 12 s5 shots?
Trade_Prince wrote: I rate the Repulsor. Highly. The dakka alone might be not worth it, as three Razorbacks can do more. The capacity alone will not do. But all of those combined in a T8 chassis is pretty good. It usually transports 5-7 Hellblasters and 2-3 characters, which is the reason I go first in most games. Next to Razorbacks and Predators it is another source of LCs. though I usually only run the TLC, not the Talon.
The drawback is that it gets targeted quite frequently, so before the big AT guns are silenced, it try to keep it in cover and buff it with Might of Heroes. This is also the reason I like the Tech Marine, apart from being cheap and being able to carry Primarch's Wrath.
YMMV though.
Why dont you use the talon? surely 2 las shots for 4pts are far more valuable than the 12 s5 shots?
I think this is up for debate. I do have a las talon on my first repulsor but am thinking of adding a Gatling cannon instead to the second.
The talon’s range is a problem on the repulsor. It isn’t fast and it often needs to be in one place, typically wherever it’s taking its passengers. This may then mean it can’t reach things. And sometimes people can just deploy out of its range.
The Gatling cannon is a very different gun. Being able to kill infantry far away can win games, especially in late game. It’s very hard to hide from a repulsor’s Gatling cannon.
A las talon does about 2.6 damage to a t7 3+ save vehicle. The Gatling cannon averages 1.33. So it’s about half as much damage, if there’s nothing else it can fire at. It’s not much but it’s not totally useless for the job.
There’s also a lot to be said for spreading your lascannons around your army, rather than putting them all on a couple of models. I like units like storm talons and repulsors that can do a bit of everything. You can build in redundancy across your army in this way. There’s no real penalty for doing so, as all your units can split fire.
Range being one factor for me and also spreading my anti-tank around a bit. Having that many LCs on one tank is rarely healthy. I suppose there are the Quad Las Preds, but lately I have been looking at TLC Razorbacks. I hate Razorbacks, but they are efficient. In a pure Primaris setup in a tank-heavy meta I'd definitely consider the Talon though.
Trade_Prince wrote: Range being one factor for me and also spreading my anti-tank around a bit. Having that many LCs on one tank is rarely healthy. I suppose there are the Quad Las Preds, but lately I have been looking at TLC Razorbacks. I hate Razorbacks, but they are efficient. In a pure Primaris setup in a tank-heavy meta I'd definitely consider the Talon though.
But asides from hammer and anvil it has decent movement, power of the machine meh and 24" which should easily reach anything asides from the most bunkered of bunkered players sitting behind terrain in the furthest of corners.
Trade_Prince wrote: I rate the Repulsor. Highly. The dakka alone might be not worth it, as three Razorbacks can do more. The capacity alone will not do. But all of those combined in a T8 chassis is pretty good. It usually transports 5-7 Hellblasters and 2-3 characters, which is the reason I go first in most games. Next to Razorbacks and Predators it is another source of LCs. though I usually only run the TLC, not the Talon.
The drawback is that it gets targeted quite frequently, so before the big AT guns are silenced, it try to keep it in cover and buff it with Might of Heroes. This is also the reason I like the Tech Marine, apart from being cheap and being able to carry Primarch's Wrath.
YMMV though.
Why dont you use the talon? surely 2 las shots for 4pts are far more valuable than the 12 s5 shots?
We NEED the anti-horde. It isn't hard to stock up on Lascannon shots or Grav shots or Plasma shots, but we need the high rate of fire. Conscripts are significantly less powerful now with the Commisar errata, but they have ways to get essentially the same benefit.
Its pretty handy that you can run a decent army out of DI, especially if you swap the nurgle half with a friend and pick up another box of Hellblasters, especially since the Rapid Fire version of the guns are the best version of the infantry guns.
Just pick up a Primaris Captain (Ive got one with a PFist) and maybe a Libby, and away you go!
Crazyterran wrote: Its pretty handy that you can run a decent army out of DI, especially if you swap the nurgle half with a friend and pick up another box of Hellblasters, especially since the Rapid Fire version of the guns are the best version of the infantry guns.
Just pick up a Primaris Captain (Ive got one with a PFist) and maybe a Libby, and away you go!
Basically the army I have been running since day one, minus the aggressors. Has been doing wonderfully, but we play objectives quite a bit.
Played against the new Ulthwe with Primaris, Guilliman, Scouts and a few Razorbacks. Got my arse handed to me. Thoroughly. The long ranged firepower is amazing, the Stratagems range from very useful to game defining, the psychic powers come cheap and are very strong. The defensive buffing is very powerful and the mobility can easily outmaneuver a Guilliman blob. In short, we're screwed Oo
Trade_Prince wrote: Aye, I think that sums up Primaris fairly well, especially when played with Guilliman. Numerical efficiency. Re-rolls are strong, but they are not fun.
Having said that, LCs on the Repulsor and Hellblasters rely on those re-rolls to perform well. Outside of those re-rolls Marines in general and Primaris in particular give up their biggest strength when compared to AM, CSM and Eldar, which is effiency per shot fired.
Agreed. If you change the rerolls you'd have to change a lot else. It's not easy to fix.
I think what I'd ask for is to have characters hand out bonuses to specific units, rather than have them just passively emit them. Maybe any hero could buff one unit, a captain two and a chapter master three - or a better version of the order.
Seems to work ok for the 6 non ultramarine chapters. I think people forget ultramarines aren't the only space marines.
Trade_Prince wrote: Aye, I think that sums up Primaris fairly well, especially when played with Guilliman. Numerical efficiency. Re-rolls are strong, but they are not fun.
Having said that, LCs on the Repulsor and Hellblasters rely on those re-rolls to perform well. Outside of those re-rolls Marines in general and Primaris in particular give up their biggest strength when compared to AM, CSM and Eldar, which is effiency per shot fired.
Agreed. If you change the rerolls you'd have to change a lot else. It's not easy to fix.
I think what I'd ask for is to have characters hand out bonuses to specific units, rather than have them just passively emit them. Maybe any hero could buff one unit, a captain two and a chapter master three - or a better version of the order.
Seems to work ok for the 6 non ultramarine chapters. I think people forget ultramarines aren't the only space marines.
Seems to? Not quite. Most folks treat Ultramarines as the only Space Marines because in a lot of cases they're the best and only answer. Rowboat Girlyman is that powerful.
He’s powerful, but forces you to play in a very predictable way. All of those razorbacks clumped together are really vulnerable to being locked down in melee and losing their shots.
I think other types of primaris army have a decent chance against Eldar. I’m actually glad that standing in a blob and rolling dice might not be a viable strategy any more.
Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
Danny slag wrote: Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
I've tried it a few times and failed. But I admit that many lists may not have been optimized and that Guilliman may have made me lazy.
Let's expand on that. In light of the new Eldar and IG as well as Chaos, how would a solid UM list function without Guilliman?
Danny slag wrote: Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
Except the fact that the only other HQ outside the 50 point one is stupidly expensive and that you need to camp because nothing has mobility unless you want to pay CP for it, so you might as well get the most bang for your buck and reroll everything?
You're right. It's a super functional army. Super functional.
Danny slag wrote: Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
For primarily Primaris, that's how it is, though. His aura is fantastic and makes otherwise mediocre units really good, and excellent units even better. That shouldn't be surprising.
But I agree, it's immensely less boring.
It's also less efficient, because it lowers the offensive punch of some Primaris units that were already forced to be immobile in the first place, like the Redemptor.
Danny slag wrote: Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
I've tried it a few times and failed. But I admit that many lists may not have been optimized and that Guilliman may have made me lazy.
Let's expand on that. In light of the new Eldar and IG as well as Chaos, how would a solid UM list function without Guilliman?
There is 0 reason to play ultra marines without Guilliman. Crimson fist and salamanders tactics are how you play marines without guilliman - or you can play dark angels. It's not a syndrome. Ultra marines suck massive chode without bobby G. It's kind of like playing any army without an army trait.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you that like to play primaris only like me. I'd invite you to play with infantry only and surround guilliman and an ancient with relic banner. It's a very tough list and a lot of times your opponent will beat himself - you are practically getting 2 shooting phases to his 1. You can keep your drops pretty low too by taking big units and you need not fear leadership because every unit is near the banner. It works best with primaris because they are naturally tougher than standard marines and get more power into a smaller area. Plus their close combat ability is practically double and this army moves towards the enemy every turn.
Danny slag wrote: Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
Except the fact that the only other HQ outside the 50 point one is stupidly expensive and that you need to camp because nothing has mobility unless you want to pay CP for it, so you might as well get the most bang for your buck and reroll everything?
You're right. It's a super functional army. Super functional.
Good points but their is also chronus - hes 35 points.
Crimson wrote: It is super lame that every marine army is led by the only existing loyalist Primarch. I refuse to use him.
I didn't write the rules - I just play by them. Marine units are pretty much terrible without rerolling everything. They pay for armor saves on every unit in a game that removes them with ease. Yet our high AP weapons are often ignored by invo saves which we have practically no access to. ESP not on our ranged units. Funny the only marine armies that are able to compete are those that bring guilliman which basically doubles your offensive output and azreal which doubles your defense (this...just to compete). Imagine if AM or elder had access to a unit like guilliman. Could any army survive for 1 turn?
Crimson wrote: It is super lame that every marine army is led by the only existing loyalist Primarch. I refuse to use him.
I didn't write the rules - I just play by them. Marine units are pretty much terrible without rerolling everything. They pay for armor saves on every unit in a game that removes them with ease. Yet our high AP weapons are often ignored by invo saves which we have practically no access to. ESP not on our ranged units. Funny the only marine armies that are able to compete are those that bring guilliman which basically doubles your offensive output and azreal which doubles your defense (this...just to compete). Imagine if AM or elder had access to a unit like guilliman. Could any army survive for 1 turn?
I feel the same, given the trend of what newly released army have, Marine is not a good / decent army in 8th Edition. The codex marine are actually in a situation as 7th edition Tyrainds, when their only competitive built is spamming Flyrants surrounding Malanthrope (maybe plus a Mawloc or two), now our maybe only strong build is spamming Razorbacks surrounding Guiliman (maybe plus a Stormraven).
Moreover, like what Nids player have complaint about their situation in 7th environment, most of marine staple units in 8th are overcosted and bad at accomplish their job in 8th. Such as Tactical marine, Assault marine, and Terminators, and most significant, the Droppod. While the high VoF hurts Nids horde in 7th, it hits Marine more (especially those AP-1/2) cos every lost in marine hurts. So how do we adapt the 8th environment, to have a chance of doing something before getting neutralized? Simplist answer is: Bring Guiliman.
Danny slag wrote: Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
I've tried it a few times and failed. But I admit that many lists may not have been optimized and that Guilliman may have made me lazy.
Let's expand on that. In light of the new Eldar and IG as well as Chaos, how would a solid UM list function without Guilliman?
There is 0 reason to play ultra marines without Guilliman. Crimson fist and salamanders tactics are how you play marines without guilliman - or you can play dark angels. It's not a syndrome. Ultra marines suck massive chode without bobby G. It's kind of like playing any army without an army trait.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you that like to play primaris only like me. I'd invite you to play with infantry only and surround guilliman and an ancient with relic banner. It's a very tough list and a lot of times your opponent will beat himself - you are practically getting 2 shooting phases to his 1. You can keep your drops pretty low too by taking big units and you need not fear leadership because every unit is near the banner. It works best with primaris because they are naturally tougher than standard marines and get more power into a smaller area. Plus their close combat ability is practically double and this army moves towards the enemy every turn.
Danny slag wrote: Rowboat is like cawl for the ad Mech,everyone thinks the army is "trash" without them because of silly wargamer syndrome. The armies work just fine without them, you just think they don't because those characters are so overpowered. If neither of them existed you wouldn't have any issue.
Try playing without them for a change, it'll be less boring.
Except the fact that the only other HQ outside the 50 point one is stupidly expensive and that you need to camp because nothing has mobility unless you want to pay CP for it, so you might as well get the most bang for your buck and reroll everything?
You're right. It's a super functional army. Super functional.
Good points but their is also chronus - hes 35 points.
Honestly I thought I was in the AdMech thread so I was talking to the guy as an AdMech player
This insistence that you need Guilliman is flat wrong. A friend and I took marine armies that were almost all Primaris to the recent GT heat and both qualified. He went 5:0 with a Primaris (apart from 4 dreadnoughts and a storm talon) Ravenguard army. I went 3:2 with crimson fists, and might have won the two games I lost if I knew what I was doing (and if repressors weren’t hideously broken).
Since the 8th ed codex dropped our combined tournament record with marines, and not using Guilliman, is 16:3. You can watch a video of my friend massacring a Guilliman army on Warhammer TV – if you can be bothered to pay £5. The guy concedes when Guilliman dies on turn 2 so it’s probably not worth the money.
Guilliman forces you to play badly – clumping all of your guys together in one place. He’s good enough that he makes that less of an awful idea, but it’s still very bad. The army can’t move or adapt so now that tank companies out-shoot them they have nowhere to go. To be fair, tank companies are ridiculous so hopefully something will change there.
If you play a mobile list built around intercessors, hellblasters and repulsors, plus the odd flyer or dreadnought, you ought to be fine. You can take on most armies and beat them.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: . Guilliman forces you to play badly
. Guilliman shows up in most of the topping lists for SM armies
Pick one.
Those are not mutually-exclusive. As I said, He’s good enough that he makes clumping all of your guys in one place less of an awful idea, but it’s still very bad.
Spamming razorbacks with Guilliman will win you games, and it's clearly a good list. It's just very limited in what it can do. A mobile list will tend to have less raw firepower, but far more options.
Mandragola wrote: This insistence that you need Guilliman is flat wrong. A friend and I took marine armies that were almost all Primaris to the recent GT heat and both qualified. He went 5:0 with a Primaris (apart from 4 dreadnoughts and a storm talon) Ravenguard army. I went 3:2 with crimson fists, and might have won the two games I lost if I knew what I was doing (and if repressors weren’t hideously broken).
Since the 8th ed codex dropped our combined tournament record with marines, and not using Guilliman, is 16:3. You can watch a video of my friend massacring a Guilliman army on Warhammer TV – if you can be bothered to pay £5. The guy concedes when Guilliman dies on turn 2 so it’s probably not worth the money.
Guilliman forces you to play badly – clumping all of your guys together in one place. He’s good enough that he makes that less of an awful idea, but it’s still very bad. The army can’t move or adapt so now that tank companies out-shoot them they have nowhere to go. To be fair, tank companies are ridiculous so hopefully something will change there.
If you play a mobile list built around intercessors, hellblasters and repulsors, plus the odd flyer or dreadnought, you ought to be fine. You can take on most armies and beat them.
In my experience, the Repulsor dies T1 as it is too big to hide in most cases or I deploy offensively and get seized on. I find it very hard to believe that this tank can hold up in an age of Eldar and IG battering down at it from 36" or more.
Mandragola wrote: This insistence that you need Guilliman is flat wrong. A friend and I took marine armies that were almost all Primaris to the recent GT heat and both qualified. He went 5:0 with a Primaris (apart from 4 dreadnoughts and a storm talon) Ravenguard army. I went 3:2 with crimson fists, and might have won the two games I lost if I knew what I was doing (and if repressors weren’t hideously broken).
Since the 8th ed codex dropped our combined tournament record with marines, and not using Guilliman, is 16:3. You can watch a video of my friend massacring a Guilliman army on Warhammer TV – if you can be bothered to pay £5. The guy concedes when Guilliman dies on turn 2 so it’s probably not worth the money.
Guilliman forces you to play badly – clumping all of your guys together in one place. He’s good enough that he makes that less of an awful idea, but it’s still very bad. The army can’t move or adapt so now that tank companies out-shoot them they have nowhere to go. To be fair, tank companies are ridiculous so hopefully something will change there.
If you play a mobile list built around intercessors, hellblasters and repulsors, plus the odd flyer or dreadnought, you ought to be fine. You can take on most armies and beat them.
In my experience, the Repulsor dies T1 as it is too big to hide in most cases or I deploy offensively and get seized on. I find it very hard to believe that this tank can hold up in an age of Eldar and IG battering down at it from 36" or more.
Martel732 wrote: It can't. The Repulsor is a floating pile of garbage. Quite literally.
Is there anything you like? Why do you even play this game or post on these boards other than to mope and whine? I'm asking honestly.
Certainly not a line of models that double downs on the problems marines already have. People need to know how poorly the Repulsor performs before they purchase it.
Martel732 wrote: It can't. The Repulsor is a floating pile of garbage. Quite literally.
Is there anything you like? Why do you even play this game or post on these boards other than to mope and whine? I'm asking honestly.
Certainly not a line of models that double downs on the problems marines already have. People need to know how poorly the Repulsor performs before they purchase it.
You really should put a caveat about your own personal play group and how ass to the glass competitive they are.
because quite frankly its fine outside of the most cheese of cheese lists. if nothing its just too bloated and wastes a bit of time when rolling for the dumb amount of anti infantry weapons it has.
Any scrub with some lascannons or dark lances can smoke this thing instantly. In some cases, BEFORE IT CAN MOVE. Cheaper and smaller and less liability is the key in 8th. Primaris does not work in the game that they themselves have made. I'm sorry, I didn't write it.
Also, models in dying transports are SLAIN on a "1". Not take a wound. Slain. So why would anyone put oompa loompa marines in a transport that's going to instantly get smoked and then potentially lose even more points in models, because even an average player can see that it's their ONLY mobility?
Certainly not a line of models that double downs on the problems marines already have. People need to know how poorly the Repulsor performs before they purchase it.
I mainly purchased it because it is pretty, but it would of course be nice if it was not just a fancy paperweight. I have not yet used it in a game, but its durability/cost ratio worries me; considering how fast Leman Russes go down, this thing is not gonna last long.
Martel732 wrote: Any scrub with some lascannons or dark lances can smoke this thing instantly. In some cases, BEFORE IT CAN MOVE. Cheaper and smaller and less liability is the key in 8th. Primaris does not work in the game that they themselves have made. I'm sorry, I didn't write it.
Iv yet to lose it first turn. certainly second turn but not first turn.
Certainly not a line of models that double downs on the problems marines already have. People need to know how poorly the Repulsor performs before they purchase it.
I mainly purchased it because it is pretty, but it would of course be nice if it was not just a fancy paperweight. I have not yet used it in a game, but its durability/cost ratio worries me; considering how fast Leman Russes go down, this thing is not gonna last long.
I've got a Repulsor on order, looking forward to seeing it in action. I think it might come today or tomorrow in fact. I'm just worried that its such a point sink, we mostly play 1000 or 1500, so I'll probably only be trying it in 1500 point games.
How has the different load outs worked for everyone?
Never had a Repulsor die first turn. I always pop it behind a hill, or building, and fly it right over on my turn. I'm usually able to still keep it out of los of the most dangerous things then as well, except for those castle deployments.
But then again we play with big los blocking terrain instead of these line em up and shoot games you guys do.
Lemondish wrote: Never had a Repulsor die first turn. I always pop it behind a hill, or building, and fly it right over on my turn. I'm usually able to still keep it out of los of the most dangerous things then as well, except for those castle deployments.
But then again we play with big los blocking terrain instead of these line em up and shoot games you guys do.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: . Guilliman forces you to play badly
. Guilliman shows up in most of the topping lists for SM armies
Pick one.
Those are not mutually-exclusive. As I said, He’s good enough that he makes clumping all of your guys in one place less of an awful idea, but it’s still very bad.
Spamming razorbacks with Guilliman will win you games, and it's clearly a good list. It's just very limited in what it can do. A mobile list will tend to have less raw firepower, but far more options.
Well it's clearly not a bad idea when Rowboat exists. You can't say it's a bad idea at all with him. It's limited in what it can do, which is kill things super quick. That's not a limiting factor at all.
Repulsor is quite big and is on a flight stand. It takes a rather large piece of terrain to completely block the line of sight.
The Repulsor is about 7-8 cm tall, 17 cm long and 10½ cm wide. The "flight stand" is 0,5 cm tall, or 1 cm tall if you use both on top of each other. I am not sure I would call it 'quite big' and it may give a bit of a distorted image if we call it a 'flight stand' because most would picture an actual flight stand for any of the current fliers.
In most circumstances it should be able to hide it relatively well, if the table have any amount of LoS blocking terrain in the deployment zone.
Repulsor is quite big and is on a flight stand. It takes a rather large piece of terrain to completely block the line of sight.
The Repulsor is about 7-8 cm tall, 17 cm long and 10½ cm wide. The "flight stand" is 0,5 cm tall, or 1 cm tall if you use both on top of each other. I am not sure I would call it 'quite big' and it may give a bit of a distorted image if we call it a 'flight stand' because most would picture an actual flight stand for any of the current fliers.
In most circumstances it should be able to hide it relatively well, if the table have any amount of LoS blocking terrain in the deployment zone.
I have not seen one in the flesh, could you post a pic comparing it to a rhino? Mine still hasn’t arrived.
Its quite a bit bigger than a rhino - closer to a land raider really. It isn’t easy to hide.
I used two last night for the first time and they did great work. I sent two repulsors and a storm raven and the raven attracted the early firepower instead of the repulsors. I took out the enemy AT and they were then free to gun down infantry for the rest of the game. Didn’t take too long.
Of course, it’s a little over 1k points for the 3 vehicles, so that’s quite a commitment. Not sure I’ve quite figured out what to put in the repulsors either. Last night I had 5 aggressors in one and 5 hellblasters, my captain and librarian in the other. It might be better to have 4 aggressors with 5he characters so I can have two hellblaster squads - or I could just have a squad of 8 hellblasters.
You also have to remember that in 8ed anything you see is a target, that also means if you attach the antenna to its turret, they will be used as target. Not as much of an issue in a casual environment, but definitely an issue in a WAAC crowd.
The Repulsor is a mixed bag. In 1000-1250 games it carried the whole game for me multiple times, even in tournaments. At 2000 points, where people usually have more tools to deal with it, it has been a liability more than anything else.
Like a lot of things, I think a repulsor needs to be in the right army to work well.
If you field one of them and it’s your only big vehicle, then of course it will have all your opponent’s lascannons fired at it. It will last a turn or two at best. But if you have several similar things, like storm ravens, repulsors, land raiders and the like, then your opponent will struggle to get rid of all of them.
f you focus down his AT troops, and protect your tanks from short-range killers with bubble wrap, then you can get into a position where your repulsors are safe. From that point on, they are really good for bullying smaller units back into your opponent’s case.
Depending on whether you’re using ITC rules or not, it may also be a pretty big help that you really bring down your drop count by setting up characters, hellblasters and maybe a couple of other units inside a repulsor. First turn matters so much at the moment that it’s worth a lot to get it.
I also find my repulsors really useful for charging stuff. I send mine into other people's (non-flying) shooting units all the time. It massively reduces the shooting that comes back at you. It's good if you want to soak up overwatch on behalf of a character too.
I have seen competitive list that did well and had one Storm Raven along with smaller stuff. How much difference is there between a Raven and a Repulsor? The Raven is only slightly cheaper with a similar loadout (around 10-20 points) and has more dakka due to the rockets, but it is squisher and MUCH harder to hide than a Repulsor. There is the -1 modifier, but some weapons and units ignore it. In short, slghtly better on the offense but slightly worse on the defense. Yet the one Raven seems to suffice in a lot of cases.
Trade_Prince wrote: You also have to remember that in 8ed anything you see is a target, that also means if you attach the antenna to its turret, they will be used as target. Not as much of an issue in a casual environment, but definitely an issue in a WAAC crowd.
The Repulsor is a mixed bag. In 1000-1250 games it carried the whole game for me multiple times, even in tournaments. At 2000 points, where people usually have more tools to deal with it, it has been a liability more than anything else.
Quite sure that GW said to ignore these type of elements on models when determining line of sight. Same rule we had in 7th.
Martel732 wrote: Raven is much faster, 3 X the long range dakka, and for me, is always empty. -1 to be hit is also much better than 1 T atm.
-1 hit is very marginal. S7 and S8 at BS4+ is exactly the same against the two targets. BS3+ pulls ahead by a very tiny amount (0.02% better chance to hit + wound). Only S9 pulls ahead for the Raven, but when Might of Heroes comes into play, then both are equal when shot by BS3+ and the Repulsor pulls ahead by 0.02% for hitting and wounding when shot by 4+. As such, the most prominent weapon combinations do around equally good. The Raven is more resistant to S10 weaponry that needs to hit, whereas the Repulsor is more resistant to units that ignore modifiers or hits altogether (like Reapers or any Flame weapons like Hemlocks or HF). The Repulsor is also more resistant to Mortal Wounds since it has slightly more Wounds. And the Repulsor can be hidden in cover or even out of line of sight far easier than the Raven. Plus, it can score.
This is why I said that the Repulsor is slightly tougher, whereas the Raven is slightly killier to due mobility and range advantage.
The raven and repulsor are not really doing the same thing, but they do have similarities. Both have a good mix of anti-tank and anti-personnel weaponry, and both should require a lot of effort to kill.
The raven isn’t so often useful as a transport. Its toughness comes from staying in flyer mode, but sometimes the most useful thing it can do is go into hover mode and charge something, to keep it from shooting. Trouble then is that it’s a very expensive model to risk in this way.
The repulsor is almost always going to actually be used as a transport. In fact I think it’s wrong to talk about repulsors without talking about the hellblasters you’ll have inside it, who will live longer and do more damage with its help.
Transports are really helpful in missions too. In kill point games you can have the last survivors of a beaten up unit fall back into a transport. In the relic, you can use the 3”+ base width to get a character most of the way to the middle of the board, then have the repulsor move up to prevent anyone from shooting them.
Anyway I’m not arguing between the raven and repulsor. I’m saying they work well together.
Mandragola wrote: The raven and repulsor are not really doing the same thing, but they do have similarities. Both have a good mix of anti-tank and anti-personnel weaponry, and both should require a lot of effort to kill.
The raven isn’t so often useful as a transport. Its toughness comes from staying in flyer mode, but sometimes the most useful thing it can do is go into hover mode and charge something, to keep it from shooting. Trouble then is that it’s a very expensive model to risk in this way.
The repulsor is almost always going to actually be used as a transport. In fact I think it’s wrong to talk about repulsors without talking about the hellblasters you’ll have inside it, who will live longer and do more damage with its help.
Transports are really helpful in missions too. In kill point games you can have the last survivors of a beaten up unit fall back into a transport. In the relic, you can use the 3”+ base width to get a character most of the way to the middle of the board, then have the repulsor move up to prevent anyone from shooting them.
Anyway I’m not arguing between the raven and repulsor. I’m saying they work well together.
A combination I've think about to make "Repulsor Death Star" based on what Mandragola discussed.
The Repulsor keep the auto launcher, carrying 10 Hellblasters, supported by Tigirius to get a further -1 to hit, then have Guiliman running up close behind the tank.
Now the tank can be buffed to T9 Sv3+ and -2 to hit (i.e. AM tanks or barrages now normally hit it on 6+, even Pask need 4+ to hit, only Longstrike still can hit on 3+) when needed rushing towards the enemy, so when deployed properly, the enemy may need to be very good luck to cripple it in one turn. When closed to enemy, unload the Hellblasters to fire 20 S8 AP-4 2D shots with reoll to hit and to wound, plus whatever guns you put on the Repulsor, it should be a "hellish" beta strike for the enemy.
Whichever you take though, Imperial Guard with 6 Primes, 6 LR tanks supported by Scions and Conscripts make a Repulsor or Raven look like a bit of a joke.
Also agreed. The only difference is that a typhoon/lascannon raven might be able to fire from a place where it can take less fire, sacrificing airborne mode to do it. However, I've leveraged this better vs Xenos with 36" guns.
Getting first turn against IG with a Repulsor as a Psyker generally gives you an advantage as you can buff the Repulsor to T9, neutering most of their guns as the current IG book typically does not run above S8, unless it is an artillery line.
