thing is, skitarii and cult has no purpouse to be in the same book, it is two completely different armies. it is as if SM and IG was placed in the same codex.

I... What? I'm really going to need an explanation for how those who serve the Cult Mechanicus as both their personal Forgeworld armies and on the missions in service are two completely different armies.

I'd love it if they simply added in the Enginseer and normal servitors. That would be an HQ and an elite choice.

An Enginseer is a very, very low ranking Cult Mechanicus Member, they would be weird as some sort of HQ choice. Enginseers are actually kinda looked down upon because they are generally part of the routine maintenance part of Mechanicus rather then one of the higher tiers.

What we need is specialised Magos. We already have the Dominus (generic leader type) but none of the major divisions of the Adeptus Mechanicus are represented. Like where’s my Magos Biologis who gives re-rolls to wound and/or poison type effects, and can heal non-Mechanicus allies?
Or a Magos Logis who has standard bearer type abilities due to his mad organisational skillz?

The forgeworld rules are going to be in a really weird place, as Cawl is Mars and so good that either the Mars specific rules have to be terrible to even bother considering the other 6 forgeworlds, they need to do a few modelless chars for the other forgeworlds (lol right) or there's no point in doing the other ones

Or nerf Cawl, I mean they already sold a bunch of those box sets, so nerf him and get ready for the new hotness to come out.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
An Enginseer is a very, very low ranking Cult Mechanicus Member, they would be weird as some sort of HQ choice. Enginseers are actually kinda looked down upon because they are generally part of the routine maintenance part of Mechanicus rather then one of the higher tiers.

It doesn't have to be an Enginseer. You can call him a Tech-Priest.

Just seems weird to have a Cult/Adeptus Mechanicus army that doesn't have any actual Tech-Priests in it, just a Magos, a giant special character, and whatever this guy is meant to be.

Since the Enginseer is an elite choice in the Admech Index, chansens are they will stay the same, along with Servitors.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Or nerf Cawl, I mean they already sold a bunch of those box sets, so nerf him and get ready for the new hotness to come out.

Nerf him how? He is already pretty mediocre for his cost.

Not sure if they'll do it but Could Dark Mechanicus be one of the "forge worlds"? Maybe one of the abilities is to change the Imperium keyword to Chaos

 davethe13th wrote:
Not sure if they'll do it but Could Dark Mechanicus be one of the "forge worlds"? Maybe one of the abilities is to change the Imperium keyword to Chaos

Probably not. That seems like something that would get its own release.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
An Enginseer is a very, very low ranking Cult Mechanicus Member, they would be weird as some sort of HQ choice. Enginseers are actually kinda looked down upon because they are generally part of the routine maintenance part of Mechanicus rather then one of the higher tiers.

It doesn't have to be an Enginseer. You can call him a Tech-Priest.

Just seems weird to have a Cult/Adeptus Mechanicus army that doesn't have any actual Tech-Priests in it, just a Magos, a giant special character, and whatever this guy is meant to be.

Oh I'm not against any other HQ's being added in or actual engineer.. For note you have Magos that are actually the class sort you'd want, the main issue is that there's no differentiating the different Magos types, for example a Genator Magos Biologis who works with sculpting flesh, a Magos Technicus for working with machines.. (Or was that Magos Fabricator).

Unless you mean what is called a Tech Priest, which the Magos are.

I wouldn't mind a Skitarii leader however personally, or at least one that would be considered high enough rank to lead such a force from afar.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


I wouldn't mind a Skitarii leader however personally, or at least one that would be considered high enough rank to lead such a force from afar.

Kinda like what they do with the Tempestus Scion kit. The Sergeant dude can be a Prime, right? That would work for Skitarii, since they have the stuff needed to differentiate them (helmets, robe markings, etc).

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


I wouldn't mind a Skitarii leader however personally, or at least one that would be considered high enough rank to lead such a force from afar.

Kinda like what they do with the Tempestus Scion kit. The Sergeant dude can be a Prime, right? That would work for Skitarii, since they have the stuff needed to differentiate them (helmets, robe markings, etc).

Honestly, we'd be better off with an actual Skitarii <Fancy Name Here> kit.

Would be an interesting way to add an HQ option to their collection of stuff. Could be a cool blend of a Skitarii and Sicarian with some weird science-y weapons. Volkite arm maybe?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
What we need is specialised Magos. We already have the Dominus (generic leader type) but none of the major divisions of the Adeptus Mechanicus are represented. Like where’s my Magos Biologis who gives re-rolls to wound and/or poison type effects, and can heal non-Mechanicus allies?
Or a Magos Logis who has standard bearer type abilities due to his mad organisational skillz?

This. Just, all of this. There is so much potential there, not to mention an excellent opportunity to release a multipart kit that lets you build up a Magos of your choice.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Glad to see that yet another deplorable habit of 6th/7th edition, the concept of MSU (minimum sellable unit) codex books, seems to be going away.

Funny how you say that just as the DeathGuard codex is coming

GW givith and GW taketh away.

Death Guard is gonna have much more unique units than Blood Angels, Grey Knights and Dark Angels, so... they deserve their own Codex. They are gonna have more units than some factions... I don't think is a bad thing that GW is giving the cult-legions his own "special snowflake chapter" threatment. Of course people is gonna come to cry about "space marines are everywere!" but at this point I think we just need to accept and embrace it.

+1 for the super modular Magos idea. The 30k Magos has a TON of options, most of which are useful, and anything that makes a theoretical 40k Magos like that has my approval.

The Adeptus Mechanicus are being re-armed for the new edition with their best codex ever

If we're all set on there being no new units, how do we interpret this statement in yesterday's announcement? Re adding some flavour to some of the neutered units?

I can't believe that people are reacting to Ad Mech and Skitarri being combined into one book with another faction (Questor Mechanicus) by saying that they should have included all these into a "wider Imperium" book.

That's... exactly what they did? Last edition all these were or would have been separate books. Now they combined three of them into one book and you're mad that it's not... less books?

Some people will never be happy...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MaxT wrote:
The forgeworld rules are going to be in a really weird place, as Cawl is Mars and so good that either the Mars specific rules have to be terrible to even bother considering the other 6 forgeworlds, they need to do a few modelless chars for the other forgeworlds (lol right) or there's no point in doing the other ones

This could be easily solved with really useful relics that Cawl can't take.

Qlanth wrote:
I can't believe that people are reacting to Ad Mech and Skitarri being combined into one book with another faction (Questor Mechanicus) by saying that they should have included all these into a "wider Imperium" book.

That's... exactly what they did? Last edition all these were or would have been separate books. Now they combined three of them into one book and you're mad that it's not... less books?

Some people will never be happy...

This is the internet, people will only be happy when their army has 2000 viable choices all for dirt cheap and easily OP. Then the other half will start complaining.

Octovol wrote:

The Adeptus Mechanicus are being re-armed for the new edition with their best codex ever

If we're all set on there being no new units, how do we interpret this statement in yesterday's announcement? Re adding some flavour to some of the neutered units?

In regards to that specific statement, it's not hard to have your best ever codex when you've never had a codex before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Qlanth wrote:
I can't believe that people are reacting to Ad Mech and Skitarri being combined into one book with another faction (Questor Mechanicus) by saying that they should have included all these into a "wider Imperium" book.

That's... exactly what they did? Last edition all these were or would have been separate books. Now they combined three of them into one book and you're mad that it's not... less books?

Some people will never be happy...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MaxT wrote:
The forgeworld rules are going to be in a really weird place, as Cawl is Mars and so good that either the Mars specific rules have to be terrible to even bother considering the other 6 forgeworlds, they need to do a few modelless chars for the other forgeworlds (lol right) or there's no point in doing the other ones

This could be easily solved with really useful relics that Cawl can't take.

Lets be fair, exactly 1 person was complaining that Imperiel Soup is not a codex for everything none Spez Mehreen related.

Lack of HQ choices that aren't Cawl is still going to be a problem for Ad Mech unless GW surprises us.

I'd just like a transport, just givem a rhino, land raider or chimera.

Also some ha choice that isn't an auto include like Cawl. Would be great to not have to use crutch named characters. Besides an abbeyant would be a cool model to have for the hq...

I dream of more HQ, fast attack

and mostly a TRANSPORT, like serious WE MAKE the transports for the rest of the imperium. I would be happy with a damn Mechanicus upgrade spruce for a Rhino at this point.

I want some Skitarii HQs, Cult Mech Fast Attack, and some cool Transports that are Walkers like the Onager Dunecrawler. An upgrade sprue for the Tech-Priest Dominus that gives it more weapon options would be nice.

I'm actually not all that bothered about a transport. I kinda like the relentless, methodical pursuit for knowledge admech has going. I'd rather have them be slightly faster, as some of the models are, but harder to take out and hard to handle when a beneficial situation presents itself than it just be another army that shoves everything in transports.

I'm expecting them to make minor adjustments to a lot of units to give them back their fluffy. I dunno I mean one or two new models would be nice, there are plenty in 30k to choose from that's for sure. Hell forgeworld already has a generic arch magos model. We definitely need some hq alternatives more than anything.

We definitely dont need another unit that shoots lol

Neat! I look forward to seeing what they do with it.

I'm thinking AM needs a flier, but that's just me.

Nothing in 40K needs or needed fliers.

there's one flyer that's written in the lore which is a scryrship, something that tech-priests fly around in looking at the battles. Not sure how they would put this into lore tho

 kastelen wrote:
there's one flyer that's written in the lore which is a scryrship, something that tech-priests fly around in looking at the battles. Not sure how they would put this into lore tho

Instead of making it a model, they could always make it a rule "Data Oversight" or something like that. What the rule would do I haven't a clue.

Of course that doesn't really bring in bucks like a brand new flier model....

The rule could be a re-roll to hit but we have cawl for that and the model could be a flying re-roll bubble. Since it holds tech-priests it could always be a flying transport

If we're getting a transport, I'd very much like a plastic Triaros kit. Sure it's huge and expensive but it's a steampunk land-yacht with extra skullz with a hugely ornate ramming spike reinforced with force shields because physical armour is passé – it's possibly the most 40K a single object can be without distorting spacetime just by existing.

 kastelen wrote:
there's one flyer that's written in the lore which is a scryrship, something that tech-priests fly around in looking at the battles. Not sure how they would put this into lore tho

Back in the day Serpantor had his flying chariot thing, I can kind of see that working for the Mech.



Flying pulpit/chariot with short range weapons and a buff bubble.

 kastelen wrote:
there's one flyer that's written in the lore which is a scryrship, something that tech-priests fly around in looking at the battles. Not sure how they would put this into lore tho

I would love something like this. Shooty stuff that removes enemy models from the table is all well and good, but I want more support units! Mechanicum in 30k is exactly how I want my Admech to play, with many support choices that synergizes beautifully with the rest of the army.

In my Reductor list my Archmagos is much more of a support unit than anything else, buffing nearby units instead of shooting etc. He also takes 4 Cyber Occularis with him, one of my favourite upgrades ever. They deploy with the Archmagos, then split up and become individual units. They act as spotters for artillery, as well as letting the Archmagos buff units from them as well as himself, with the correct upgrades.

Stuff like this is awesome, and it really cements for me the idea of Admech fighting a war. Sure, they blow stuff up (especially Reductor..) but they do it in a calculated way, with so much information flying between them that no other force could keep up. A flyer, or even a bigger drone type of model, that scans the battlefield, buffing other models shooting or movement, that is what I want.

So basically I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum in 40k as well. Fires of Cyraxus, please? It might not add all the models though, that's hihgly unlikely, but still. A man can dream.

I was going to post that I hope for more robots, and look up the name of the one I was most hoping for - the Crusader/Vorax - on the Forgeworld site ... and I can't seem to find them.

Did the robots not sell well and were dropped or perhaps GW is going to redo them in plastic?

Oh no please keep flyers away from my army, we never needed flyers they have nothing to do at the scale of the game we're playing. Maybe for Apocalypse games with a boosted speed, but Gw decided long ago that Apocalypse could be played at any points level and now we're forced to play loads of heavy weapons because everyone at my store plays at least one super-heavy at 2000 pts.

Either we have a transport or we get the Scout rule back, with our 6+ FNP. Right now it's hard to play a mobile firing line when all my units get shot in once or die to morale. This form of gameplay is simply discouraged by our actual rules. I'd love to play my Kastelan Robots on Aegis mode so that their flamers can hit something but the penalty for moving with heavy weapons makes it just impossible to play without Cawl, and still.

Speaking of Cawl, oh yes please a generic Archmagos model, I can't stand seing Cawl in every list because he's just a no-brainer. We better have some really nice rules for Forge Worlds other than Mars to motivate people not to play Mars.

Or yeah, go crazy and release the 30k Mechanicum in 40k. It'd be expensive but honestly if the rules are good I'll never have to complain again about my army.

I´m with yodhrin with this in 40k there is no real need for flyers.

The flying chariots/discs should be more a thing of drukhari (hellions).

@Stromonu: the vorax are still available at Forgeworld.

I wouldn't mind if admech got one flyer, it's just mainly about unit diversity and more possible detachments for me

Firefox1 wrote:
I´m with yodhrin with this in 40k there is no real need for flyers.

The flying chariots/discs should be more a thing of drukhari (hellions).

@Stromonu: the vorax are still available at Forgeworld.

Ah, thanks!

I also agree with no flyers - though an ornithopter sort of jump unit would be interesting. Some sort of armored transport would be really nice.

I don't disagree that we can have stuff that flies, just not Flyers in the sense of Stormravens or Corvus Blackstars. Why not include the Vultarax ?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-BE/Mechanicum-Vultarax-Stratos-Automata

Yes that would fit. As fast attack choice?
My first thought looking at it was "bloat drone".

 Stormonu wrote:
I was going to post that I hope for more robots, and look up the name of the one I was most hoping for - the Crusader/Vorax - on the Forgeworld site ... and I can't seem to find them.

Did the robots not sell well and were dropped or perhaps GW is going to redo them in plastic?

They haven't gone anywhere.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Mechanicum-Vorax-Battle-Automata

It would be nice to see an AdMech upgrade sprue to make several other vehicles into Admech versions, like some icons, a servitor/skitarii cupola model, and some mech specific pintle mounts.

'Fires of Cyraxus' has some of the FW units in it, and will be released once the AdMech & Tau codex are out (so hopefully Tau is after Admech)

I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

If they do blend in units from 30k the possibilities for list-building will be endless, I could finally consider running a Brigade with other fast attack choices than Dragoons.

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

If they do blend in units from 30k the possibilities for list-building will be endless, I could finally consider running a Brigade with other fast attack choices than Dragoons.

Using 30k Mechanicum in 40k would be great. I would give 40k another try if I could use my Mechanicum models as Ad-Mech. But as it stands, its Horus Heresy for me.

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
Using 30k Mechanicum in 40k would be great. I would give 40k another try if I could use my Mechanicum models as Ad-Mech. But as it stands, its Horus Heresy for me.

Ah understandable, you have loads of beautiful models already, you'd need to re-buy a whole army to play in 40k. Patience my friend ! I always loved the 30k Mechanicum models (especially the Thallax, Domitar and Thanatar) and wanted to buy some. I love big robots.

Also can't wait for the rules for the Secutarii and hopefully a model for the Secutarii Axiarch.

 Aaranis wrote:

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
Using 30k Mechanicum in 40k would be great. I would give 40k another try if I could use my Mechanicum models as Ad-Mech. But as it stands, its Horus Heresy for me.

Ah understandable, you have loads of beautiful models already, you'd need to re-buy a whole army to play in 40k. Patience my friend ! I always loved the 30k Mechanicum models (especially the Thallax, Domitar and Thanatar) and wanted to buy some. I love big robots.

Also can't wait for the rules for the Secutarii and hopefully a model for the Secutarii Axiarch.

I'm in the same boat. I would never buy an Admech army, however much I want to play them, since I have around 3500 points of 30k Mechanicum. If I need to get some models that's fine, since I doubt the whole 30k line up will be in Fires of Cyraxus.

However many units do get a 40k variant, I will just be playing 30k until Fires comes out. Then I might give 8th edition som more attention.

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

None of the current vehicle kits are 30 years old. But don't let that stop you from exaggerating wildly while unrealistically wishlisting!

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

It would be nice to see an AdMech upgrade sprue to make several other vehicles into Admech versions, like some icons, a servitor/skitarii cupola model, and some mech specific pintle mounts.

Along with standalone-Cawl, this is the best that we can hope for right now. Like CSM and GK, this is a re-release codex. Once all the codices are released, we might see some revisitation, but I'd actually hope for more of a RT-era style of releases where quite a lot of different factions could get new releases at any time without needing a book. Rules for the new released in WD as in the old days - and in the box, downloadable and reprinted in the annual CA.

A little add-on sprue. Just like the GS Cult one, or the DW one, or the DA one and access to either the Rhino or Chimera. The Rhino fits with the (older) fluff better, but they went to a lot of effort over the years stripping it back from other factions and making it SM-only, and have only just slightly relaxed that with the Custodes and SoS (because they had no plastic kits.) Maybe the Chimera would fit better in that context.

Skitarii use Rhinos & Chimeras (and Valkyries) in the fluff, so an upgrade sprue is a good idea.

They also have their own variants: "Accompanied by a cluster of servitor scribes, skitarii guildmasters and apprentice magi, Dahan made his way through the safe zone in the centre of the deck on the back of an open-topped variant of the Rhino chassis with a quad-mounted battery of heavy bolters fitted to its glacis. Known as an Iron Fist, it had been developed from a scrap of STC data uncovered on forge world Porphetus prior to its loss to the bio-horrors of the Great Devourer. It had yet to achieve full Mechanicus ratification, but Dahan liked its blunt profile and the single-mindedness of its purpose enough to employ it regardless of its unofficial status"

 Azazelx wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

None of the current vehicle kits are 30 years old. But don't let that stop you from exaggerating wildly while unrealistically wishlisting!

My mother always told me to follow my dreams ! They're not 30 years old but how old are the Rhinos and Land Raider kits ? Plus, people dislike assembling the Land Raider for some reason, I hate assembling so I'd rather have a clean new sprue. Rhino is okay if they want to add it in, I'm just sick of Rhinos in every faction.

 Aaranis wrote:
They're not 30 years old but how old are the Rhinos and Land Raider kits?

Not 30 years old either.

40K is 30 years old. The current Leman Russ kit and current Land Raider kit didn't come 'til much later.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
They're not 30 years old but how old are the Rhinos and Land Raider kits?

Not 30 years old either.

40K is 30 years old. The current Leman Russ kit and current Land Raider kit didn't come 'til much later.

The Rhino came out in 2002, so he was half right

beast_gts wrote:
Skitarii use Rhinos & Chimeras (and Valkyries) in the fluff, so an upgrade sprue is a good idea.

They also have their own variants: "Accompanied by a cluster of servitor scribes, skitarii guildmasters and apprentice magi, Dahan made his way through the safe zone in the centre of the deck on the back of an open-topped variant of the Rhino chassis with a quad-mounted battery of heavy bolters fitted to its glacis. Known as an Iron Fist, it had been developed from a scrap of STC data uncovered on forge world Porphetus prior to its loss to the bio-horrors of the Great Devourer. It had yet to achieve full Mechanicus ratification, but Dahan liked its blunt profile and the single-mindedness of its purpose enough to employ it regardless of its unofficial status"

Variants are fine, but if we're being realistic, we're not getting those (right now, at least). We may get a single, small-box-size sprue. I'd love to have more, but being realistic...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aaranis wrote:

My mother always told me to follow my dreams ! They're not 30 years old but how old are the Rhinos and Land Raider kits ? Plus, people dislike assembling the Land Raider for some reason, I hate assembling so I'd rather have a clean new sprue. Rhino is okay if they want to add it in, I'm just sick of Rhinos in every faction.

By every faction, you mean all the flavours of Space Marines and also Sisters of Silence, I presume? Unless there's more I don't know about? Looted Ork stuff, I guess. Didn't notice the Tau or Necron Rhinos.

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
They're not 30 years old but how old are the Rhinos and Land Raider kits?

Not 30 years old either.

40K is 30 years old. The current Leman Russ kit and current Land Raider kit didn't come 'til much later.

The Rhino came out in 2002, so he was half right

Land Raider was 2000, Rhino 2002, Leman Russ 2009?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
They're not 30 years old but how old are the Rhinos and Land Raider kits?

Not 30 years old either.

40K is 30 years old. The current Leman Russ kit and current Land Raider kit didn't come 'til much later.

Land Raiders were a gaping hole in the 40k catalogue for a hell of a long time after the RT kit was discontinued. Stuff of Legends has some big holes in it around the early 2000s, but the Old Rhino was still in service in 1998, with no Land Raider available at all. Checking the sprue of a couple of old kits I have (still) unbuilt, the Land Raider says 1999 and the Rhino says 2001. Sometimes they're not released in the same year that the sprues are machined, so 1999-2000 for the LR and 2001-2 for the Rhino.

Not new kits by any means, but nowhere near 30 years old.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

beast_gts wrote:

Land Raider was 2000, Rhino 2002, Leman Russ 2009?

Like I said!

 Azazelx wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Skitarii use Rhinos & Chimeras (and Valkyries) in the fluff, so an upgrade sprue is a good idea.

They also have their own variants: "Accompanied by a cluster of servitor scribes, skitarii guildmasters and apprentice magi, Dahan made his way through the safe zone in the centre of the deck on the back of an open-topped variant of the Rhino chassis with a quad-mounted battery of heavy bolters fitted to its glacis. Known as an Iron Fist, it had been developed from a scrap of STC data uncovered on forge world Porphetus prior to its loss to the bio-horrors of the Great Devourer. It had yet to achieve full Mechanicus ratification, but Dahan liked its blunt profile and the single-mindedness of its purpose enough to employ it regardless of its unofficial status"

Variants are fine, but if we're being realistic, we're not getting those (right now, at least). We may get a single, small-box-size sprue. I'd love to have more, but being realistic...
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aaranis wrote:

My mother always told me to follow my dreams ! They're not 30 years old but how old are the Rhinos and Land Raider kits ? Plus, people dislike assembling the Land Raider for some reason, I hate assembling so I'd rather have a clean new sprue. Rhino is okay if they want to add it in, I'm just sick of Rhinos in every faction.

By every faction, you mean all the flavours of Space Marines and also Sisters of Silence, I presume? Unless there's more I don't know about? Looted Ork stuff, I guess. Didn't notice the Tau or Necron Rhinos.

Every flavour of Space Marines, which make up a big part of the game, Deathwatch, Sisters of Battle, Sisters of Silence, Inquisition. Chaos Space Marines. Add AdMech and yes that would be a consequent part of the factions filled with Rhinos.

Now can we stop being snarky at each other because I didn't state the exact informations in my posts ? Exaggeration must not be a thing where you're from, no problem, I just tend to exaggerate a lot.

Yes they're not 30 years old, they're still over a decade old and showing signs of weariness. Rhinos are totally out of scale with the current models and having a transport not shaped like a brick would be nice for once.

Deathwatch and CSM are both flavours of SM. I did forget the SoB, I don't see Rhinos or Chimeras in the current Inquisition list, but they're more of an add-on to other things that keeps getting married to and decoupled from other related factions than an actual faction. Like the Assassins.

I love the way you ask me to stop being snarky because you got your facts wrong and then make a snarky point about exaggeration not being a thing where I'm from. No, there are stupid people everywhere. As for your ways of trying to make a point, it depends on whether you're just talking gak to people or if you're trying to make an argument that you want taken seriously. If you want to be taken seriously and not picked apart, then it helps to be accurate or at least reasonable rather than exaggerate wildly for effect... because the actual effect it has is to make your arguments weaker by association. It's one thing to say "older" and very much another to say "30 years old". Then again, Trump got voted in so clearly ridiculous exaggeration works much more effectively for some audiences.

But OK, we'll stop being snarky. Let's deal in cold, hard facts:
Aside from the fact that they're in the fluff as AdMech machines (see above poster) the fact is that we're simply not going to get a new vehicle kit with this codex release. Maybe later, but not now. Based on that, I'd like to have some (or at least one) transports/vehicles available to the AdMech.

Given these facts, and the precedent that GW seems to be ok with making a single, small-sized sprue for new factions to slot new models into them or even for added bling as with some of the SM sprues. Then the best we can expect is the codex-addition of 1-2 existing vehicle kits, one being a Rhino or Chimera, and the little sprue to make it so. Maybe some parts on it to make a HQ from existing Skirarii kits.

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

I never get this tbh. Skitarii use Rhinos in the fluff, and that actually made them special because the once-ubiquitous vehicle has passed into the honoured relic category thanks to the Mechanicus' creeping decline into ignorance, but the Skitarii were still able to use them like the Space Marines. If we keep adding newshiny in for every single minifaction even when there's no actual background justification for it beyond "it's kewl tho" or "GW gotta sell dem models" it's just another nail in the coffin of 40K's supposed status as a terminally declining dystopia setting. You can get away with adding newshiny for stuff like GSC because they're getting something genuinely new that we hadn't seen before in an official kit - reclaimed and refitted civilian vehicles - but the Rhino/Chimera/Russ STC hull triad for Imperial military vehicles is supposed to be the basis for almost all such vehicles. The last thing we need is for them to follow the same model for all other vehicles that they have done for fliers where every single Imperial faction gets multiple special snowflake fliers of their very own even when they have to throw out existing lore to jam them in there.

As I say, if they absolutely have to sell a new kit, draw from the existing background and do a variant Rhino like the Advancer, and if people want esoteric, wierd, rare stuff that doesn't fit with the rest of the 40K tone(whatever's left of it these days) they can have all the deco-gothic beatle-backed madness they like when FW put out FoC and give us the 30K units.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

I never get this tbh. Skitarii use Rhinos in the fluff, and that actually made them special because the once-ubiquitous vehicle has passed into the honoured relic category thanks to the Mechanicus' creeping decline into ignorance, but the Skitarii were still able to use them like the Space Marines. If we keep adding newshiny in for every single minifaction even when there's no actual background justification for it beyond "it's kewl tho" or "GW gotta sell dem models" it's just another nail in the coffin of 40K's supposed status as a terminally declining dystopia setting. You can get away with adding newshiny for stuff like GSC because they're getting something genuinely new that we hadn't seen before in an official kit - reclaimed and refitted civilian vehicles - but the Rhino/Chimera/Russ STC hull triad for Imperial military vehicles is supposed to be the basis for almost all such vehicles. The last thing we need is for them to follow the same model for all other vehicles that they have done for fliers where every single Imperial faction gets multiple special snowflake fliers of their very own even when they have to throw out existing lore to jam them in there.

As I say, if they absolutely have to sell a new kit, draw from the existing background and do a variant Rhino like the Advancer, and if people want esoteric, wierd, rare stuff that doesn't fit with the rest of the 40K tone(whatever's left of it these days) they can have all the deco-gothic beatle-backed madness they like when FW put out FoC and give us the 30K units.

While I don't mind the odd variant vehicle for the Ravenwing/Deathwatch/etc, everything else you say here is totally on point.

Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

 Kirasu wrote:
Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

Which is just a Land Raider and a Land Speeder mashed together with the grace and finesse of a Great Unclean One.

I wish we would at least get the Land Raider. I kinda might paint my MkIIB one in Metalica colors anyhow at this point, because it is just too rad.

To be fair, I think the Repulsor is fitting with how I think Cawl operates. He just wants to build things and in an age of ignorance, he wouldn't know aesthetics. He's like a child with Lego blocks kinda.

 Kirasu wrote:
Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

Well it's been hinted half his stuff is stolen alien tech. He just changes the paint job on it and claims it was a rediscovered stc fragment. Most of the primaris genetic modifications and weapons appear to be simplified and easier to construct versions of custodes equivalents, supplemented by again some alien tech here and there. Nothing Cawl has done was that unreasonable, he's managed to merely dial back the regression of technology in an extremely limited way for a particularly small subset of warriors.

 alleus wrote:
So basically I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum in 40k as well. Fires of Cyraxus, please? It might not add all the models though, that's hihgly unlikely, but still. A man can dream.

Is Fires of Cyraxus confirmed to be 7th or 8th edition? Or is it confirmed at all? With all the delays and the publishing of a new edition, I'd guess it would be the first 8th edition FW book.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
To be fair, I think the Repulsor is fitting with how I think Cawl operates. He just wants to build things and in an age of ignorance, he wouldn't know aesthetics. He's like a child with Lego blocks kinda.

What? He's been around for TEN THOUSAND!!!! Years.. Pretty sure he knows how things operate, look, etc. It doesn't matter if he kitbashes it, they have no way to mass produce the vehicle because it's not a STC. IE why his entire storyline is one big fluff failure but GW doesn't care about that as all characters are written to only sell the new models.

 warboss wrote:

 alleus wrote:
So basically I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum in 40k as well. Fires of Cyraxus, please? It might not add all the models though, that's hihgly unlikely, but still. A man can dream.

Is Fires of Cyraxus confirmed to be 7th or 8th edition? Or is it confirmed at all? With all the delays and the publishing of a new edition, I'd guess it would be the first 8th edition FW book.

Confirmed for 8th, rumoured to be 99% finished and to be released once 'Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes are out'.

beast_gts wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 alleus wrote:
So basically I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum in 40k as well. Fires of Cyraxus, please? It might not add all the models though, that's hihgly unlikely, but still. A man can dream.

Is Fires of Cyraxus confirmed to be 7th or 8th edition? Or is it confirmed at all? With all the delays and the publishing of a new edition, I'd guess it would be the first 8th edition FW book.

Confirmed for 8th, rumoured to be 99% finished and to be released once 'Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes are out'.

Thanks. That makes sense so I give FW about a 50/50 chance of actually doing it according to that timeframe.

 warboss wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Confirmed for 8th, rumoured to be 99% finished and to be released once 'Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes are out'.

Thanks. That makes sense so I give FW about a 50/50 chance of actually doing it according to that timeframe.

It was repeated at the FW & Specialist Games Open Day on 13/08/17, so I'm hoping it's still on track...

Its confirmed, but i hear its on hold since the guy who was apparently doing all the work at FW died, and FW is kindof losing its mind now regarding books and rules

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Its confirmed, but i hear its on hold since the guy who was apparently doing all the work at FW died, and FW is kindof losing its mind now regarding books and rules

Alan Bligh (who wrote the HH stuff) died, and some of the other rules writers have been moved over to Specialist Games (Andy Hoare, for example). They're recruiting more rules writers.

The fluff side of Fires of Cyraxus is apparently finished, and the rules side was waiting on the Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes - so we're two-thirds of the way there!

Personally I absolutely loathe the rhino and land raider models. I didn't choose admech for my army because i wanted another imperium variant. Fluff wise, as I recall, they pretty much only agreed to build stuff for the imperium to save their own backsides. It's not how they roll.

Octovol wrote:
Personally I absolutely loathe the rhino and land raider models. I didn't choose admech for my army because i wanted another imperium variant. Fluff wise, as I recall, they pretty much only agreed to build stuff for the imperium to save their own backsides. It's not how they roll.

They used Land Raiders in the Heresy, so that would be a useful justification. I want other stuff, but I will settle for that if I have to.

Would be neat to see a Skitarii HQ choice, along the lines of the main character from that awful tie-in novel that was released alongside the codex back then. IIRC he had an extra set of arms and dual wielded pistols and arc mauls.

Well to be fair the fluff is not always a reliable source of future models, in the very codex of Skitarii in 7th Edition and in the novels "Skitarii" and "Tech-Priest" they use the damn Dunecrawlers as open-topped transports from page 1. I'd love myself some open-topped transports too, just bash a new rule on the Dunecrawler and there you go.

I admit I didn't read much novels so my informations are not up to date, but as I remember the AdMech always had their own stuff, and some they don't share with the Imperium. They still keep the best stuff for themselves as the greedy madmen they are.

Although with the abomination that is Belisarius Cawl we might as well get antigrav Kastelan Robots as far as we know it. I don't remember any mention of a Tech-Priest that lived TEN THOUSAND YEARS. Hundreds at most. And now here he is, pumping out inventions from nowhere. I'll be glad if we can get rid of him somewhat on tabletop. I want to play a regular greedy and insane Tech-Priest.

 Kirasu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
To be fair, I think the Repulsor is fitting with how I think Cawl operates. He just wants to build things and in an age of ignorance, he wouldn't know aesthetics. He's like a child with Lego blocks kinda.

What? He's been around for TEN THOUSAND!!!! Years.. Pretty sure he knows how things operate, look, etc. It doesn't matter if he kitbashes it, they have no way to mass produce the vehicle because it's not a STC. IE why his entire storyline is one big fluff failure but GW doesn't care about that as all characters are written to only sell the new models.

Knowing how things operate isn't the same as knowing what looks good. At all.

Striker pronounced by a old as shot tech priest boss, STRIKER UNIT.

 Kirasu wrote:
Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

Uh, yeah. That might happen later, but it's not going to happen in September. Which has been my entire point.

I can see an admech repulsor to happen. Because it would just fit to admech but more important GW want to sell new models and that way they could boost the sales of it.

Either way if they want Forge World to do more sales they should totally mix up 30k and 40k units. I don't believe they'll be in this codex because as far as I know they never had FW products in a GW book, so Fires of Cyraxus it is then.

 Kirasu wrote:
It doesn't matter if he kitbashes it, they have no way to mass produce the vehicle because it's not a STC. IE why his entire storyline is one big fluff failure but GW doesn't care about that as all characters are written to only sell the new models.

STCs have nothing to do with the ability to mass produce items.

Octovol wrote:
Personally I absolutely loathe the rhino and land raider models. I didn't choose admech for my army because i wanted another imperium variant. Fluff wise, as I recall, they pretty much only agreed to build stuff for the imperium to save their own backsides. It's not how they roll.

You may not like it, but yourself and Aaranis are misremembering - the Mechanicus had strange and esoteric tech denied to the rest of the Imperium in addition to the standard STC patterns available to other Imperial forces, but their main benefit was in being able to fully equip whole armies with gear that's reserved for elite formations in the wider Imperium(like, for example, Rhinos), and not an insignificant amount of those extra goodies would be variants of standard STC patterns; for example, a Ryzian Cataphractoi division might be fully equipped with the extremely rare Leman Russ Executioner and their versions might even have some additional bit of tech meaning there's no risk of overload. A Martian division might even have a full roster of Deimos Predators. Up until the frankly ridiculous guff in the Skitarii codex("nah brah, they just walk everywhere, and if it's far away they start walking sooner, lulz" ) the easiest way to think of how the Skitarii were presented was to think of the tech level of the Imperial Army during the Great Crusade-era. For the wider Imperium, the once-ubiquitous equipment like Rhinos and Land Raiders became reserved for elite troops and the less common gear became priceless and irreplaceable relics; for the Mechanicus they had to downgrade to "only" the tech level of the old Imperial Army, and the really crazy stuff bristling with neutron lasers and darkfire cannons etc became their equivalent of a Relic Contemptor.

As to why they work with the Imperium, again you misremember - there were three broad lines of thought in the old Mechanicum. The first held that the Emperor was the Omnissiah, the incarnate Machine God, and so the Mechanicum should serve his Imperium; the second held that the Emperor was a powerful mortal genius and the Mechanicum should ally with him for as long as that proved beneficial; the third(much smaller) faction considered the Emperor a usurper adopting the mantle of their god to manipulate and control them. The third group mostly allied with Horus and became the Dark Mechanicum, the second group were forced into a binary choice(aha ) by the circumstances and drifted over to the third or the first, and the first ended up as the utterly dominant majority in what would become the Adeptus Mechanicus. An interesting way to think of the relationship is in terms of the United Kingdom - you could draw a parallel between the pre-Heresy situation and how Scotland and England became "related" but not yet conjoined after the Union of the Crowns(distinct entities with own governments but the same royal head of state), and between the post-Heresy situation and the conception of how the United Kingdom was "sold"(a single composite state comprised of multiple nations with a unified government and single royal head of state), though not with how it actually ended up/was intended(the absorbsion of the smaller entity into a unitary state that was, functionally, an extention of the larger entity).

The whole concept of STC's is an idea I wouldn't mind seeing retconned out of existence. I'm sure that back when GW only made 2 vehicle kits, the rhino and the landraider, the whole idea of STC was invented to justify why every army used exactly the same vehicles, i.e. to sell more models.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The whole concept of STC's is an idea I wouldn't mind seeing retconned out of existence. I'm sure that back when GW only made 2 vehicle kits, the rhino and the landraider, the whole idea of STC was invented to justify why every army used exactly the same vehicles, i.e. to sell more models.

Not really - STC was there from the start as a example of how the Imperium works (or rather doesn't) - originally they had not even intended to sell actual vehicles - at most bikes - they had a huge section in Rogue Trader to tell you have to make vehicles from odds and ends

but eventually they brought out a Land Raider kit but it was a big thing.

I like the STC aspect and it means there are plenty of story hooks for the Ad Mech and their exploratory as well as politicizing between Imperium powers.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The whole concept of STC's is an idea I wouldn't mind seeing retconned out of existence. I'm sure that back when GW only made 2 vehicle kits, the rhino and the landraider, the whole idea of STC was invented to justify why every army used exactly the same vehicles, i.e. to sell more models.

Not really - STC was there from the start as a example of how the Imperium works (or rather doesn't) - originally they had not even intended to sell actual vehicles - at most bikes - they had a huge section in Rogue Trader to tell you have to make vehicles from odds and ends

but eventually they brought out a Land Raider kit but it was a big thing.

I like the STC aspect and it means there are plenty of story hooks for the Ad Mech and their exploratory as well as politicizing between Imperium powers.

STC's were mentioned in Rogue Trader? I had forgotten that.

I think the idea of STCs is fine as a concept and it provides an explanation as to why all Imperial vehicles, from every part of the Imperium follow the same design. What I don't like though, is when some people try to use it to straightjacket the designers. I've heard people basically arguing that if it isn't already in the background, then GW are going against their own fluff when they come out with something new.

I'm excited for ths, I had bought an Admech lot as my second army after Death Guard. I just hope that it removes the "need" to take Cawl; I ordered him off eBay but I don't like being forced to take a character.

As far as transports go i wouldn't mind seeing a rhino or a variant like the already mentioned advancer, or the iron fist from the forge of mars series. IF we were to get a land raider variant I would hope we get the Proteus since it was the original design from the STC discovered by Arkhan Land, or even the armored proteus, both with some admech flair. All just remains to be seen i guess, I'll be happy if we just get the automata and triaros.

As for the actual codex I wonder what will get nerfed & buffed. I suspect kastelans will get nerfed (I hope they don't) I wouldn't mind a slight movement increase for electro priest.

Personally, I think it would be cool if Ad Mech got their own, new model as a transport or a flyer.

Much more than playing the game I found that I enjoy modeling, painting, and seeing how things look on the table.

Anything that differentiates armies on the table better is fine by me. Would love to see a totally weird crawler-style transport to match the Onager Dunecrawlers or maybe a flying transport like a Chinook helicopter with more skulls and spindly wires

Or, y'know, the unique and characterful transport they already have, but in plastic?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Or, y'know, the unique and characterful transport they already have, but in plastic?

I'd like the Forgeworld vehicles in plastic - they are gorgeous PLUS Ad Mechh Rhinos and Land Raiders

What's wrong with having them in resin ? Genuine question, I never worked with FW resin. I too love the Triaros, and if it can transport 20 models like it does actually (if I remember right) there's no need to buy four of them at least.

 Aaranis wrote:
What's wrong with having them in resin ? Genuine question, I never worked with FW resin. I too love the Triaros, and if it can transport 20 models like it does actually (if I remember right) there's no need to buy four of them at least.

Nothing really against resin but I really hoping for 40k versions and plastic is easier to be honest.

Speaking for personal experience, as a person who is rather new to everything in the hobby, working with resin is a huge pain in the ass for several reason.

First, the model will come covered in a fine coating of some chemical that is apparently used to seperate the resin from the mold. That coating makes it so glue and paint won't stick. You'll need to wash all the pieces prior to gluing. If you missed a spot its going to be a pain in the ass to get glue to stick when assembling.

Second, there are a lot errors/bubbles/voids that need to be fixed with green stuff which isn't easy if you're inexperienced.

Third, anything large and straight is probably going to be warped and will need to be fixed. This isn't actually that hard. I run water through the coffee maker and submerge the pieces and they usually fix themselves.

Fourth, I find that the flash on FW casts are way bigger and way harder to remove compared to plastic which just flakes off with a little scraper. You'll want a good pair of clipper and maybe even a saw to get good looking models.

Finally, and this might be a personal issue, I find that resin breaks extremely easily. it feels softer and more pliable but with even a little too much force it will snap right apart. I am clumsy and oafish and it just doesn't work great for me.

I hate all the resin stuff. A lot of the Forgeworld models look incredible but the thought of building any more vehicles is just completely daunting for me right now. Even characters can be a humungous pain in the ass sometimes if you didn't clean them well enough and the fething arm wont stick no matter what you do melon-fether why wont you stick just stick why the feth isnt it sticking god damnit its been 5 minutes and im still pressing this arm on

 Aaranis wrote:
What's wrong with having them in resin ? Genuine question, I never worked with FW resin. I too love the Triaros, and if it can transport 20 models like it does actually (if I remember right) there's no need to buy four of them at least.

Plastic is cheeper and much easier to work with


What I want is more info on the knights are they just rolling them into the codex or are these new

Qlanth wrote:Speaking for personal experience, as a person who is rather new to everything in the hobby, working with resin is a huge pain in the ass for several reason.

First, the model will come covered in a fine coating of some chemical that is apparently used to seperate the resin from the mold. That coating makes it so glue and paint won't stick. You'll need to wash all the pieces prior to gluing. If you missed a spot its going to be a pain in the ass to get glue to stick when assembling.

Second, there are a lot errors/bubbles/voids that need to be fixed with green stuff which isn't easy if you're inexperienced.

Third, anything large and straight is probably going to be warped and will need to be fixed. This isn't actually that hard. I run water through the coffee maker and submerge the pieces and they usually fix themselves.

Fourth, I find that the flash on FW casts are way bigger and way harder to remove compared to plastic which just flakes off with a little scraper. You'll want a good pair of clipper and maybe even a saw to get good looking models.

Finally, and this might be a personal issue, I find that resin breaks extremely easily. it feels softer and more pliable but with even a little too much force it will snap right apart. I am clumsy and oafish and it just doesn't work great for me.

I hate all the resin stuff. A lot of the Forgeworld models look incredible but the thought of building any more vehicles is just completely daunting for me right now. Even characters can be a humungous pain in the ass sometimes if you didn't clean them well enough and the fething arm wont stick no matter what you do melon-fether why wont you stick just stick why the feth isnt it sticking god damnit its been 5 minutes and im still pressing this arm on

Woah woah okay I think I got it Have courage, you know you want these FW models and you'll fight for it and win !

Oldmike wrote:Plastic is cheeper and much easier to work with


What I want is more info on the knights are they just rolling them into the codex or are these new

I believe they'll just fit in the actual knights with the ability to be affected by Mechanicus abilities. I think it makes sense they're in this book and not another, they're more played by AdMech players than IG players as far as I know.

Being able to repair your Knights with Mechanicus HQ's and the like would be neat enough as is.

If they allow that maybe there will be a change in rules some way to counter-balance that ? Or not, after all Chaos Knights can be repaired as far as I know.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The whole concept of STC's is an idea I wouldn't mind seeing retconned out of existence. I'm sure that back when GW only made 2 vehicle kits, the rhino and the landraider, the whole idea of STC was invented to justify why every army used exactly the same vehicles, i.e. to sell more models.

Not really - STC was there from the start as a example of how the Imperium works (or rather doesn't) - originally they had not even intended to sell actual vehicles - at most bikes - they had a huge section in Rogue Trader to tell you have to make vehicles from odds and ends

but eventually they brought out a Land Raider kit but it was a big thing.

I like the STC aspect and it means there are plenty of story hooks for the Ad Mech and their exploratory as well as politicizing between Imperium powers.

STC's were mentioned in Rogue Trader? I had forgotten that.

I think the idea of STCs is fine as a concept and it provides an explanation as to why all Imperial vehicles, from every part of the Imperium follow the same design. What I don't like though, is when some people try to use it to straightjacket the designers. I've heard people basically arguing that if it isn't already in the background, then GW are going against their own fluff when they come out with something new.

Sometimes designers should be "straightjacketed" - they're working on a major IP not their own little personal projects, and maintaining the integrity of that IP through respecting its established material wherever possible should be a consideration for GW when they produce new product. It often isn't, evidently, but it should be.

As to that argument at the end there, eh, that depends on what the fluff is and what the new thing is. Skitarii(nee Tech Guard) were specifically called out as using esoteric variants of STC vehicles for decades, so yeah, the more recent material that expressly states the opposite is definitely going against their own fluff. They did the same thing when producing the various new fighter craft for Space Marines, who had previously been explicitly banned from fielding dedicated air superiority craft in the same way they were prohibited from fielding "ship of the line" starships rather than vessels designed to facilitate and support planetary assaults. There are other instances where they made additions that weren't against existing fluff per se but were simply unnecessary(ie they served no real purpose that wasn't adequately served already by another model or by a concept in the fluff they didn't bother using). Adding a newshiny transport("relic" Triaros don't count because regardless of how often they show up on the table, like Relic dreadnoughts they'll be rare as all bugger in the fluff FW puts out) for Skitarii fits the latter scenario as well, since there are also existing, well described Rhino variants to make if they want to give Skitarii a transport that reflects the fluff but is also different to the normal Rhino.

In the end though it's not adding random wierd nonsense like Ironstriders and Onagers and Chibihawks etc I object to per se - hell sometimes the wierd additions end up being great - it's the fact that adding them comes at the expense of giving us the choice to build armies based on the existing fluff. Because we have Ironstriders, we're not allowed Sentinels. Because we have Onagers, we're not allowed Russes. And you can be damn sure that if they come out with some bizarro ten-legged spidertank transport thingie they'll double-down on preventing us from using Rhinos, Chimeras etc. It's the naked, cynical sales tactics of it all that really biles my piss.

 Aaranis wrote:
What's wrong with having them in resin ? Genuine question, I never worked with FW resin. I too love the Triaros, and if it can transport 20 models like it does actually (if I remember right) there's no need to buy four of them at least.

Two words: Super Glue

Hate it. Hate using it. Much prefer plastic cement.

But do we need an army that uses all the same things we already have? I didn't start collecting Admech because I wanted to use those godawful box looking vehicles, I liked the Admech asthetic. Anyone who wants to play guard or space marines already can, I'd just as soon Admech stayed focused on new releases, not just give us old handmedowns.

If the old fluff has to go away, so be it. New necrons are more fun than old necrons. Primaris don't bother me. Sometimes getting rid of old boring fluff has to happen to make room for something better.

The Macrocarid Exploritor could provide a nice mid point. Until recently it was even called the Mechanicum Land Raider and it does look similar to the Land Raider whilst maintaining a distinct Mechanicum flair.

Well, Onagers Dunecrawlers are 100 times better and more fitting to the Ad Mech aesthetics that just Leman Russes. As Silveralien said, if all Imperial Armies need to be all of the already existing vehicles and units with some new sparkling and colours to be "fluffy", I'm be very glad that they just abandon that fluff.
Personally I fully understand why a universe like this needs to add constant new things that they pull out of the end of their backs.

This kind of constant expansive universe can't be all made since the first day, guys. Haven't you add a work of yours that has been running from maybe 5 or10 or 15 years, and after some years you see your first versions of that work and tought "Well, this is crap, I can do it much better now".

This is why I find so annoying the "But this hasn't been mentioned since the beginning of this universe 30 years ago, why are you doing it now!".

DC, Marvel, Warhammer, Warcraft with every new expansion of the universe. They all add new things, and many times they are great (Like how in WoTLK they added the Vrykul race and made them the Ancestors of the humans, making the origin of warcraft's humans titanic), and other times is just crap that goes agains't well stablised fluff.
But that isn't about the "fact" of adding new things to an universe. Is how you do it.

This isn't a "Complete and done" universe like the Lord of the Rings one of Tolkien. They need to add new things to stay in business. And made changes, and retcon things, etc...

SilverAlien wrote:
But do we need an army that uses all the same things we already have? I didn't start collecting Admech because I wanted to use those godawful box looking vehicles, I liked the Admech asthetic. Anyone who wants to play guard or space marines already can, I'd just as soon Admech stayed focused on new releases, not just give us old handmedowns.

If the old fluff has to go away, so be it. New necrons are more fun than old necrons. Primaris don't bother me. Sometimes getting rid of old boring fluff has to happen to make room for something better.

Boring for you. Don't bother you. Appealing for you. Better for you.

Some of us actually quite like 40K.

 Yodhrin wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
But do we need an army that uses all the same things we already have? I didn't start collecting Admech because I wanted to use those godawful box looking vehicles, I liked the Admech asthetic. Anyone who wants to play guard or space marines already can, I'd just as soon Admech stayed focused on new releases, not just give us old handmedowns.

If the old fluff has to go away, so be it. New necrons are more fun than old necrons. Primaris don't bother me. Sometimes getting rid of old boring fluff has to happen to make room for something better.

Boring for you. Don't bother you. Appealing for you. Better for you.

Some of us actually quite like 40K.

Oh no, not this "Not true 40k-fan" again.

I totally agree that sometimes people just doesn't like 40k and they should look for another universe (Like when they say that the Imperium is stupid being this oppresive and totally xenophobic regime). But this isn't the case. Is about making factions unique, and not having all of the universe anchored to the foundatins done 25 years ago.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I've heard people basically arguing that if it isn't already in the background, then GW are going against their own fluff when they come out with something new.

This is clearly not true in the slightest.

GW can, and does, do whatever they want. They've been inventing new units that have 'always been there' forever. Even the Primaris Marines have "always been there... just in stasis!".

Those working with GW's licenses, well that's a different story.

 Yodhrin wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
But do we need an army that uses all the same things we already have? I didn't start collecting Admech because I wanted to use those godawful box looking vehicles, I liked the Admech asthetic. Anyone who wants to play guard or space marines already can, I'd just as soon Admech stayed focused on new releases, not just give us old handmedowns.

If the old fluff has to go away, so be it. New necrons are more fun than old necrons. Primaris don't bother me. Sometimes getting rid of old boring fluff has to happen to make room for something better.

Boring for you. Don't bother you. Appealing for you. Better for you.

Some of us actually quite like 40K.

Which 40k? The rogue trader silly 40k? 2nd edition, back with squats? 6th/7th, before the various new fluff such as Admech retcons, end times events, and primaris?

Your idea of 40k is just a very specific snap shot in time, no more true than the ones preceding it or following it.

AdMech retcons?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
AdMech retcons?

The army list basically having no bearing on how they were previously portrayed.

Yeah, people needs to understand that no canon rules forever, my son... I mean. Just look at Star Wars with the Disney era and totally decanonization of the Expanded Universe..

The 3rd-7th edition Canon of 40k lasted a very LONG time, but now they have entered a new era for the lore of the universe. People just need to accept that.
And I remark "accept". Accepting that something has changed doesn't mean liking it. But being in negation mode is like being a Creationist. It only gives mental anguish.

Considering how long humans where out in the galaxy during the golden age of technology, would it not be conceivable that the STC databases used in the initial colonizations be somewhat different than STCs used in later colonies. The version 1.0 only being able to produce template for very basic versions of rhinos and russes and STC Prime v45.2 being able to build, say, a uber obital defence russ
Also local needs would likely have dictated what manufacturing infrastucture was built. What we see in the imperium today is most likely the most commonly manufactured items of the day.

The galaxy is pretty big and i think its possible to fit a large number of wildly different toys for the imperium with out betraying the (machine) spirit of the fluff. Even it contradicts certain specific details

For myself i wouldn't mind some 'hand me downs' to get us by until they can supply us with something new. As stated above the Macrocarid is basicaly a souped up land raider

SilverAlien wrote:
The army list basically having no bearing on how they were previously portrayed.

I'd argue that AdMech were never portrayed in any specific way. Really, they were left undefined.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
The army list basically having no bearing on how they were previously portrayed.

I'd argue that AdMech were never portrayed in any specific way. Really, they were left undefined.

I seem to recall certain things (like skitarii having hellguns) being fairly consistent, but that may have not be "canon". Same with rhinos etc.

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, people needs to understand that no canon rules forever, my son... I mean. Just look at Star Wars with the Disney era and totally decanonization of the Expanded Universe..

The 3rd-7th edition Canon of 40k lasted a very LONG time, but now they have entered a new era for the lore of the universe. People just need to accept that.
And I remark "accept". Accepting that something has changed doesn't mean liking it. But being in negation mode is like being a Creationist. It only gives mental anguish.

I view it the way I view comic books: Since it's a 30 year long collaborative fictional setting that constantly contradicts itself, canon is a fuzzy, nebulous concept even when the IP holder tries to pretend otherwise. Just use the lore you like and ignore the rest, just as you don't try to reconcile the ever-shifting canon of a superhero setting.

I'm glad the fluff advances as long as it stays true to its roots. It's easier for newer players to say that new fluff is needed to avoid stagnation (and I think so too), but you have to remember the older players who are here from the start. Advancing or changing the fluff without much consideration for its basis can ruin some people's ideas about their own fluff, like you built an entire badass Space Wolves force full of lore about Scandinavian culture with historical names for everyone, because they were like that in the beginning (as I have heard, don't shoot me if I'm wrong), and now you must witness the horror that are Wolfus Wolfborn the Wolflord and his flock of weird wolf worshippers. All I'm saying is that it's a thing to move up the fluff, you just need to at least keep it's foundations running, because in a game like 40k where some people represent the fluff with their models they can be out of fashion with too much drastic changes. I believe that a background is not good just because it's old and the first, and sometimes in my D&D campaign I figure out I wrote something badly and I'd like to change it if my players are okay, so that the whole setting can be on the same page, and so overall better than before. Retconning is a ugly method in my opinion and is to be avoided most of the time, but other times it ought to be used for the sake of the present days needs.

Concerning the Mechanicus, they went from "they use pimped up Rhinos and Land Raider" through "they use Dunecrawlers and flying transports (Rob Sanders novels) to "they walk to the battlefield everytime lol" in a short amount of time. So I believe if GW wants to change its fluff once more, listening to the outcry of many AdMech players about their lack of transports, currently forcing people to play AdMech as an immobile artillery force while picking up better models from the whole Imperium range to fill other roles, they'll disregard their old fluff if that means selling new models by droves, and I'm okay with that. I'd like to play a complete AdMech force and that's very hard to do against serious players without using the Kastelan/Onager spam supported by Cawl.

So bring forth new fluff if needs be, we already have the Cawl abomination so what's popping some new vehicles besides that ?

The Imperium has ten thousand years of history give or take and spans the entire galaxy. Plenty of room for changes and variations in its armed forces. Especially given the "current" events of the setting.

Cawl could just come along and use the mystical powers of common sense to give his troops transports. It'd not even be too much of a stretch in fluff I think.

SilverAlien wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
The army list basically having no bearing on how they were previously portrayed.

I'd argue that AdMech were never portrayed in any specific way. Really, they were left undefined.

I seem to recall certain things (like skitarii having hellguns) being fairly consistent, but that may have not be "canon". Same with rhinos etc.

Skitarii vary from forgeworld to forgeworld - from Tech-Guard (Imperial Guard++), to their description in Priests of Mars:



and things in Titanicus that are mistaken for Chaos:


The 7th Codex dealt with Mars-type Skitarii.

(They also have armour in Titanicus - "A three kilometre-long convoy of skitarii armour had led the procession: tanks and guntracks and mobile Hydra platforms. Vultures and, higher up, Thunderbolts, had skimmed down the line of the convoy like dense flocks of migrating birds.").

 kastelen wrote:
Cawl could just come along and use the mystical powers of common sense to give his troops transports. It'd not even be too much of a stretch in fluff I think.

like this exists in forge world they're call triarios ...seriously gw just give us the forge world stuff

From a fluff perspective I like the idea that AdMech should be using a bunch of Rhinos. It makes sense, and it adds verisimilitude to the setting.

From a modelling and collecting perspective... Eh. I have at least eight Rhino-chassis vehicles for my Dark Angels. I haven't finished painting all of them yet. When I start collecting AdMech, which I do plan to, I don't really fancy having to acquire more Rhinos too. Give me more ridiculous Martian walkers please.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 kastelen wrote:
Cawl could just come along and use the mystical powers of common sense to give his troops transports. It'd not even be too much of a stretch in fluff I think.

like this exists in forge world they're call triarios ...seriously gw just give us the forge world stuff

Well fw has said that they're waiting on Admech and Tau dexes to drop before the release FoC with all its wonderful new (old) toys in it for us. Dex release order rumors are saying Admech will drop followed by Tau so here's hoping that's because they're waiting to push FoC out the door after them.

Not ruling out the addition of existing model transports like the Rhino or Chimera, but based on WD, it looks like the new codex is a Triumvirate Mini only release like Grey Knights. Hopefully there is a repurposed mini as an HQ (Enginseer perhaps?).

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not ruling out the addition of existing model transports like the Rhino or Chimera, but based on WD, it looks like the new codex is a Triumvirate Mini only release like Grey Knights. Hopefully there is a repurposed mini as an HQ (Enginseer perhaps?).

No thanks. Enginseers are Elites.

I really don't understand this obsession with transports. AdMech don't really need to be closing the gap; they're shooting you off objectives (theoretically) with weird deployment/movement values on their few assault units(Sicarian and Dragoons) or the assault unit is just bad(Electropriests) and transports aren't going to make a difference.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not ruling out the addition of existing model transports like the Rhino or Chimera, but based on WD, it looks like the new codex is a Triumvirate Mini only release like Grey Knights. Hopefully there is a repurposed mini as an HQ (Enginseer perhaps?).

No thanks. Enginseers are Elites.

I really don't understand this obsession with transports. AdMech don't really need to be closing the gap; they're shooting you off objectives (theoretically) with weird deployment/movement values on their few assault units(Sicarian and Dragoons) or the assault unit is just bad(Electropriests) and transports aren't going to make a difference.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that the weird deployment rules (scout moves and dunestrider) were lost in the Index release. This makes the assault units really weak. If the scout moves and whatnot were returned in the Codex there probably wouldn't be as many people wishing for transports.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not ruling out the addition of existing model transports like the Rhino or Chimera, but based on WD, it looks like the new codex is a Triumvirate Mini only release like Grey Knights. Hopefully there is a repurposed mini as an HQ (Enginseer perhaps?).

No thanks. Enginseers are Elites.

I really don't understand this obsession with transports. AdMech don't really need to be closing the gap; they're shooting you off objectives (theoretically) with weird deployment/movement values on their few assault units(Sicarian and Dragoons) or the assault unit is just bad(Electropriests) and transports aren't going to make a difference.

I am saying that maybe they could use the Enginseer model, but make it something different for an HQ the way they did with the Dreadknight for GK. Just a theory.

I agree with the transport issue. I like my Skitarii advancing up the field on foot. I hope they get a boost so they move faster though. That was one of my favorite things about them, that they were so mobile just on foot. I hope the Forge World abilities are pretty good. I get the feeling everyone will use Mars so they can use Cawl, but my custom Forge World Tarn (as in Tarnished) will use whatever fits the best. My Imperial Knights aren't painted yet, but I will probably be painting one as a Knight from Tarn.

Electropriests are bad? I though the fulgerites atleast were lauded as pretty darn lethal for their points when the index dropped and were actually worth running now?

Qlanth wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not ruling out the addition of existing model transports like the Rhino or Chimera, but based on WD, it looks like the new codex is a Triumvirate Mini only release like Grey Knights. Hopefully there is a repurposed mini as an HQ (Enginseer perhaps?).

No thanks. Enginseers are Elites.

I really don't understand this obsession with transports. AdMech don't really need to be closing the gap; they're shooting you off objectives (theoretically) with weird deployment/movement values on their few assault units(Sicarian and Dragoons) or the assault unit is just bad(Electropriests) and transports aren't going to make a difference.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that the weird deployment rules (scout moves and dunestrider) were lost in the Index release. This makes the assault units really weak. If the scout moves and whatnot were returned in the Codex there probably wouldn't be as many people wishing for transports.

You were here for the AdMech release?

They would be clamoring for transports even if we started right in the enemy's face with every enemy model being at -3 Toughness.

 Ir0njack wrote:
Electropriests are bad? I though the fulgerites atleast were lauded as pretty darn lethal for their points when the index dropped and were actually worth running now?

Eh, they looked okay at first but as people got more familiar with how our army worked enthusiasm died. Current morale rules means we don't have a good way to get them close, taking them at 20 isn't that much harder to shoot off the table, and other units can put out as much hurt while getting into combat easier. They also don't benefit from the cover blessing which hurts.

So a vehicle might help them somewhat, though I've yet to compare them pound for pound to ruststalkers in just damage.

Belisarius is coming out on his own apparently . £32.50 so about the same as you would have paid for a carnifex on its own.

The Collector's edition is only $80?!
And I was getting ready to pay $150.... that's a nice surprise!

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Belisarius is coming out on his own apparently . £32.50 so about the same as you would have paid for a carnifex on its own.

Spoiler:

Hah.

I paid $30 for him, split boxed.

Skitarii really vary. Like the Guard. Also like the Guard GW only cares about the most boring and "best" version.

I can't see the spoiler so can someone tell me what's on it?

If we bother them enough about the vehicles they may FAQ them in.

But the whole idea of them not having or using vehicles doesn't make sense, considering they make everything, and in fluff use them whether for combat or retrieval of lost technology

Double the cost of the regular edition Codex. Does it have double the rules?

 kastelen wrote:
I can't see the spoiler so can someone tell me what's on it?

Do these work?

Yep, thanks. That VP objective seems a BIT too strong though. Along with cawl that could means extremely easy wins for martian admech which is sad because it only further reinforces the fact that mars will be the go to FW

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not ruling out the addition of existing model transports like the Rhino or Chimera, but based on WD, it looks like the new codex is a Triumvirate Mini only release like Grey Knights. Hopefully there is a repurposed mini as an HQ (Enginseer perhaps?).

I really don't understand this obsession with transports. AdMech don't really need to be closing the gap; they're shooting you off objectives (theoretically) with weird deployment/movement values on their few assault units(Sicarian and Dragoons) or the assault unit is just bad(Electropriests) and transports aren't going to make a difference.

People often like the fluff to be represented on the table - the Ad Mech are highly mechanised.

I'd be OK to not have transports. But the army really needs something to cope with (in my experience at least) never getting first turn as a lot of our options are single drops. A scout move on vanguard or rangers to create a bit of deep strike exclusion before turn 1 would be a huge boost. I think rust stalkers need something better movement wise too, then they might actually offer something.

Yellabelly wrote:
I'd be OK to not have transports. But the army really needs something to cope with (in my experience at least) never getting first turn as a lot of our options are single drops. A scout move on vanguard or rangers to create a bit of deep strike exclusion before turn 1 would be a huge boost. I think rust stalkers need something better movement wise too, then they might actually offer something.

pppppft lol wut I always get turn 1 tech priest two onagers datasmith one unit of four kastelans at 1000 five units. Takes first turn the. Chews meq up and spits them out

gendoikari87 wrote:

Yellabelly wrote:
I'd be OK to not have transports. But the army really needs something to cope with (in my experience at least) never getting first turn as a lot of our options are single drops. A scout move on vanguard or rangers to create a bit of deep strike exclusion before turn 1 would be a huge boost. I think rust stalkers need something better movement wise too, then they might actually offer something.

pppppft lol wut I always get turn 1 tech priest two onagers datasmith one unit of four kastelans at 1000 five units. Takes first turn the. Chews meq up and spits them out

Talk to us when you play 2k. Then you will know the pain of going second more often than not.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Yellabelly wrote:
I'd be OK to not have transports. But the army really needs something to cope with (in my experience at least) never getting first turn as a lot of our options are single drops. A scout move on vanguard or rangers to create a bit of deep strike exclusion before turn 1 would be a huge boost. I think rust stalkers need something better movement wise too, then they might actually offer something.

pppppft lol wut I always get turn 1 tech priest two onagers datasmith one unit of four kastelans at 1000 five units. Takes first turn the. Chews meq up and spits them out

Talk to us when you play 2k. Then you will know the pain of going second more often than not.

at 2000 I'd add two units another onager and another kastelan squad after the first fills up....

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Yellabelly wrote:
I'd be OK to not have transports. But the army really needs something to cope with (in my experience at least) never getting first turn as a lot of our options are single drops. A scout move on vanguard or rangers to create a bit of deep strike exclusion before turn 1 would be a huge boost. I think rust stalkers need something better movement wise too, then they might actually offer something.

pppppft lol wut I always get turn 1 tech priest two onagers datasmith one unit of four kastelans at 1000 five units. Takes first turn the. Chews meq up and spits them out

Talk to us when you play 2k. Then you will know the pain of going second more often than not.

at 2000 I'd add two units another onager and another kastelan squad after the first fills up....

As an AdMech player, if you have less than 10 drops at 2k, I would be shocked. Especially since Onagers are singles and so is the Datasmith.

At 2000 I have 7 drops

Hq
Data smith
Onager
Onager
Onager
5x kastelans
6x kastelans

gendoikari87 wrote:
At 2000 I have 7 drops

Hq
Data smith
Onager
Onager
Onager
5x kastelans
6x kastelans

Wow... that is a terrible list. All I have to do is lock those two over-sized Kastelan units in combat and your army falls apart, which will be easy given your lack of any screening units.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
At 2000 I have 7 drops

Hq
Data smith
Onager
Onager
Onager
5x kastelans
6x kastelans

Wow... that is a terrible list. All I have to do is lock those two over-sized Kastelan units in combat and your army falls apart, which will be easy given your lack of any screening units.

sure ... try that and realize how bad an idea that really is between the kastelans str 6 and three attacks each and oh 152 shots on overwatch


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Oh and possibly a few hidden kastelan fists to mop up anyone that makes it through the hail of gunfire


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Oh AND it will take at least two turns to pull off a charge if you aren't deep striking which means I get a minimum of 2 turns shooting..... hope those charging units your talking about are huge units and you have multiple backups


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Sorry 108 shots on overwatch 152 turn one 198 turn two so 350 str 6 bs 4 rerolling 1 ap - shots before you can declare a charge and I will be targeting the Meele units


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That's on average 9 dead full tac squads before you can say charge

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
At 2000 I have 7 drops

Hq
Data smith
Onager
Onager
Onager
5x kastelans
6x kastelans

Wow... that is a terrible list. All I have to do is lock those two over-sized Kastelan units in combat and your army falls apart, which will be easy given your lack of any screening units.

sure ... try that and realize how bad an idea that really is between the kastelans str 6 and three attacks each and oh 152 shots on overwatch


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and possibly a few hidden kastelan fists to mop up anyone that makes it through the hail of gunfire


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Oh AND it will take at least two turns to pull off a charge if you aren't deep striking which means I get a minimum of 2 turns shooting..... hope those charging units your talking about are huge units and you have multiple backups

Do you actually play? I am leaning towards no. Not only has this sort of list failed miserably at tournaments, but pretty much everyone on the Tactica agrees this is bad. Also, you don't get 152 Overwatch shots. You get what one unit shoots. You don't get re-rolls, so you are on 6's.

I am guessing you haven't been on the receiving end of Da Jump, for starters. And so you know, if they do this T1 you are only in Aegis, so not getting that precious double-tap.

Even if you do get Protector before they arrive, you are doing 90 shots or 108 shots. Which is only 14-17 hits or so. Maybe you do 15 wounds to Orks - that will hurt. The other 15 will get there and lock you down. Now if it is a Hive Tyrant or something tough with a decent save, it won't make a major dent.

Also, "hidden fists"? That means less Phosphor shots, which is the entire point of your list.

Again, I am not sure you actually play and only have some mathhammer under your belt. Because while the idea just sounds great on paper, it rarely works.

You get rerolls from the tech priest and it's 108 shots on overwatch with the data smith on a full unit of six kastelans

Also 7 units so you go first.and tournaments only allow two units to deepstrike around here (maybe that's different in your area by both my local stores limit deep strikes to two units)

Finally yes I play and yes this works, you simply don't know what your talking about


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The only drawback is massive hoard armies, luckily meq reigns supreme here


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And most meq squads are 10 wounds max 108 shots hitting on 6 is average of 8 dead meq so you stand decent chance of wiping out any unit with a 3+ that tries to charge. Terminators or full ten man primaris is a different story

No, you don't. Cawl gives you rerolls, the TPD gives you rerolling ones. Pretty much any army you think of has a way of getting a turn one charge - you vastly underestimate the effectiveness of armies like Orks, Tau commanders, and Tyranids.

It seems to me like that that list is only being kept viable by your local tournament rules shutting down its hard counters. The data (from larger tournaments and the tactics thread) shows that Kastelan spam is a massive trap, and you get diminishing returns after 4 Kastelans in a list. 11 is "just no" territory, unless you're playing someone who doesn't understand how to abuse your lack of screening units.

Also don't forget kastelans are t7 a3 str 6 with a 3+ save that's not something you really want to charge a unit of 6 of without a lot of power fists. If and that is not guaranteed, if you can get to charge them you still have to fight them


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And then you have to hope to god the mech player was stupid enough to pile in the data smith so you can kill it because next turn those kastelans go to six attacks each


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 Verviedi wrote:
No, you don't. Cawl gives you rerolls, the TPD gives you rerolling ones. Pretty much any army you think of has a way of getting a turn one charge - you vastly underestimate the effectiveness of armies like Orks, Tau commanders, and Tyranids.

It seems to me like that that list is only being kept viable by your local tournament rules shutting down its hard counters. The data (from larger tournaments and the tactics thread) shows that Kastelan spam is a massive trap, and you get diminishing returns after 4 Kastelans in a list. 11 is "just no" territory, unless you're playing someone who doesn't understand how to abuse your lack of screening units.

rerolling 1s is what I meant. In any case I run this it works, all you have to say it doesn't is theory and buthurt "but but but what this" benchhammer

Going to confirm that that kastellan list is a terrible list

Also what data? Are people even trying kastelans spam do you have the data to show? Yes against conscripts spam with heavy tank support or fire warriors spam that might be a problem but I don't have to worry about that

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
No, you don't. Cawl gives you rerolls, the TPD gives you rerolling ones. Pretty much any army you think of has a way of getting a turn one charge - you vastly underestimate the effectiveness of armies like Orks, Tau commanders, and Tyranids.

It seems to me like that that list is only being kept viable by your local tournament rules shutting down its hard counters. The data (from larger tournaments and the tactics thread) shows that Kastelan spam is a massive trap, and you get diminishing returns after 4 Kastelans in a list. 11 is "just no" territory, unless you're playing someone who doesn't understand how to abuse your lack of screening units.

rerolling 1s is what I meant. In any case I run this it works, all you have to say it doesn't is theory and buthurt "but but but what this" benchhammer

"Butthurt"

gendoikari87 wrote:
Also what data? Are people even trying kastelans spam do you have the data to show? Yes against conscripts spam with heavy tank support or fire warriors spam that might be a problem but I don't have to worry about that

Yes. There are no winning kastelan spam Mechanicus lists in any major tournament that I can find.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Going to confirm that that kastellan list is a terrible list

*eyeroll* internet know it alls

Kastellan spam =/= conscript spam or any infantry, they dont have the footprint or the board presence, and there is not even a close to cost comparison

Large units are a giant point sink and easy to tie up, sure they hit reasonably hard in combat with punching but still on 4s for 1 damage and no AP, they can be tied up by anything and there goes half your list.

The list needs something to screen and something to capture objectives. Its a bad list.