Mortarion is out, at 140USD.
So, a simple poll as to how it is being received.
Especially, for me, is the pricing - 140USD is simply too rich for my blood.
With 25% off from retailers, this will come down to just over 100USD.
Awesome model, too expensive, skipping it and would skip it if I collected Nurgle marines.
EDIT: Apologies if my after-initial post edit screwed up someone's early vote.
Wow, three votes in less than a minute! I was not prepared. Again, apologies...
It's just another example of GW trying to make everything out of plastic even if the economics probably dictate they're better suited to another medium.
Making a large, low volume (relative to something like a Rhino, I still expect it'll shift plenty) model in plastic means a) substantial time to design, which isn't a big deal when your studio is on salary, but it is still using a resource b) substantial cost in machining, even if GW pay below the market rate c) a burden on the sales to recoup those up front costs.
Plus I personally think plastic doesn't suit organic shapes very well, or maybe it's limitations of digital sculpting or the sculptors, but there's something..sanitized.. about the likes of Magnus and Mortarion that isn't to my taste.
Plus we've started to encounter an issue with some of the smaller low volume stuff having limited posing options, hell, even Morty has two poses, with his scythe in his left or his right hand!
I think GW could better serve us better by investing more into an alternative medium again, resin most likely, where the costs of riskier/lower volume models are more evenly spread, they can express better detail and while they're not inherently more posable than plastic, alternate parts, even expansion packs of extra bits, become more feasible.
They'd probably have to cut back on the swirly gak, as resin isn't well suited to that and would likely snap, but that wouldn't be a bad thing.
Probably wouldn't offer a significant saving on RRP for the customer, but would probably give better product and greater choice.
Um.. everything should be made out of plastic, if this thing was Finecast it would have broken pieces, 200$+ , utter crap filled with mold lines and small holes.
The new style of plastics are amazing. Its even better than FW Resin, i always has problems with FW models..... and they dont look any more organic than plastic, have you seen the Tervigon sac? thats pretty organic to me....
Amishprn86 wrote: Um.. everything should be made out of plastic, if this thing was Finecast it would have broken pieces, 200$+ , utter crap filled with mold lines and small holes.
Show me where I said Finecast? There's no reason a resin cast model need any more clean up or assembly effort than a plastic one, there's numerous companies doing it all the time, it's just people who are ignorant of those products judge resin by GW's cost and corner cutting standards where they used molds designed for metal spin casting to make Finecast models or FW where they're apparently under constant time pressure meaning casts are rushed and stuff comes out damaged or warped.
That's why I said they needed to invest in it, not just restart doing what they've done before.
The new style of plastics are amazing. Its even better than FW Resin, i always has problems with FW models..... and they dont look any more organic than plastic, have you seen the Tervigon sac? thats pretty organic to me....
Purely subjective, and doesn't really address the fact that plastic is a medium ill suited to low volume models.
Edit: Ill suited unless you've got a bunch of baby bird customers with their beaks agape for every £30 Space Marine with a new hat you can churn out I guess.
Amishprn86 wrote: Um.. everything should be made out of plastic, if this thing was Finecast it would have broken pieces, 200$+ , utter crap filled with mold lines and small holes.
Show me where I said Finecast? There's no reason a resin cast model need any more clean up or assembly effort than a plastic one, there's numerous companies doing it all the time, it's just people who are ignorant of those products judge resin by GW's cost and corner cutting standards where they used molds designed for metal spin casting to make Finecast models or FW where they're apparently under constant time pressure meaning casts are rushed and stuff comes out damaged or warped.
That's why I said they needed to invest in it, not just restart doing what they've done before.
The new style of plastics are amazing. Its even better than FW Resin, i always has problems with FW models..... and they dont look any more organic than plastic, have you seen the Tervigon sac? thats pretty organic to me....
Purely subjective, and doesn't really address the fact that plastic is a medium ill suited to low volume models.
Edit: Ill suited unless you've got a bunch of baby bird customers with their beaks agape for every £30 Space Marine with a new hat you can churn out I guess.
GW doesnt do Resin, FW does, GW does finecast, so.... how would it be resin?
I'll direct you again to the point where I already addressed your point in my initial post with "alternative medium" as in "different from what they currently do?"
Also "what they did or do" has absolutely zero bearing on "what I think might be a good idea for them to do in the future," I mean, GWdid metal, until they did Finecast.
You're quite right that FW does resin, and can you guess the reasons why? Equally that they do resin doesn't preclude another division also doing it, in fact overall investment in resin casting facilities could only be a boon for FW, who are just a brand name for GW like Citadel, so drawing any divide between them isn't really valid anyway, they can be as separate or integrated as best suits the overall company (GW PLC)
I'm not entirely sure you're quite getting what I mean about the "organic" stuff, irrespective of whether you agree or not, so I think that's better just left as a difference of opinion.
Azreal13 wrote: I'll direct you again to the point where I already addressed your point in my initial post with "alternative medium" as in "different from what they currently do?"
Also "what they did or do" has absolutely zero bearing on "what I think might be a good idea for them to do in the future," I mean, GWdid metal, until they did Finecast.
They are not going to change what they are doing, so it does matter
You're quite right that FW does resin, and can you guess the reasons why? Equally that they do resin doesn't preclude another division also doing it, in fact overall investment in resin casting facilities could only be a boon for FW, who are just a brand name for GW like Citadel, so drawing any divide between them isn't really valid anyway, they can be as separate or integrated as best suits the overall company (GW PLC)
GW isnt going to change their million dollar machines to run resin, so yes dividing them is fine b.c they are 2 different factories with different machines
I'm not entirely sure you're quite getting what I mean about the "organic" stuff, irrespective of whether you agree or not, so I think that's better just left as a difference of opinion.
I gave an example, do you mean wings? claws? hands? faces? what do you mean, b.c FW resin wings are trash compare to plastic GW stuff. Resin is also more brittle and breaks, having Mortarion wings as resin would be a nightmare
If you dont like the model or dont like Plastic fine, i dont care but you gave some really odd reasons.
No, I gave perfectly valid opinions where warranted because I'm entitled to hold any opinion I damn well like.
Where things aren't a matter of opinion, such as plastic models carry the burden of their production costs up front whereas resin models spread them more over their lifetime, I've explained it.
The fact that you're talking about changing HIPS machines to run resin suggests you've no real understanding of the differences in the tech or the economics at hand, so there's really not much point in carrying on this discussion is there?
Azreal13 wrote: No, I gave perfectly valid opinions where warranted because I'm entitled to hold any opinion I damn well like.
Where things aren't a matter of opinion, such as plastic models carry the burden of their production costs up front whereas resin models spread them more over their lifetime, I've explained it.
The fact that you're talking about changing HIPS machines to run resin suggests you've no real understanding of the differences in the tech or the economics at hand, so there's really not much point in carrying on this discussion is there?
Never said it wasnt valid, said it was odd, so i talked to you more about them...... the only thing i said wasnt valid (and didnt use tho words) was GW changing the way they make their models, they have their model making ways down and are not changing anytime soon, i know how the machines work and there are different types, not all types can you change a couple little things to make them interchangeable.....
Im not saying your wrong, i few times i even ask to clarify... i even ask what organic parts are you referring to, i gave a few examples to ones i think are better in plastic.
Sense me trying to understand seems to be arguing to you, we can just end it here.
Just because it doesn't chime with what you think doesn't make it odd.
There's a reason why near enough every other manufacturer who produces HIPS kits out there is still working in multiple media, GW appear to be the only ones pursuing the 100% plastic idea, and its contributing to what, at time of writing, is a model who ~70% of respondents won't be buying for various reasons.
The assumption that GW won't change their production methods is functionally irrelevant to my opinion that I believe they should, and back in the bad old Kirby days there's a bunch of stuff that I and many others said they should do that others told us they wouldn't, that, unsurprisingly, they are now doing. Because it made sense from a broader view. Plus there's the very obvious point that they have changed production, whether it be from pewter to white metal, or metal to Finecast, or Finecast to plastic, when it's made financial sense they've done it. I'm not even suggesting they change production methods they currently use, but add to and expand them to give them more options and flexibility.
I also, unsurprisingly for this little exchange, addressed the idea of using resin as offering a better service to the customer in my first post, so your assertion that they won't change isn't really a surprise, as I've already implicitly acknowledged they won't change, merely the belief that it would be better for us if they did.
As to organic, again, I've already covered this. You're looking for me to say "resin does teeth better" or something like that, when what I'm alluding to is a lot less tangible, it's not easily expressed, but if someone has handled good quality resin models alongside plastics they may well get it. I'm not sure you do, and I'm not sure I can explain it to you, hence why I've already suggested moving on.
I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.
He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.
I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️
GW doesnt do Resin, FW does, GW does finecast, so.... how would it be resin?
And what is this ? Made from FW, but sold by GW ?
"This pack contains four Masters of the Chapter - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in eighteen components, and is supplied with four Citadel 25mm Round bases."
There's nothing wrong with plastic, it gives food detail, it's easy to glue together, it has good weight, it's easy to paint, and easy to repair if needed. As for the Price point, $140 is about right considering the size of the model and the fact that you're only going to need the one. I have some issues with the design, Mortarion ha always been a gaunt Grim Reaper looking dude despite the rest of his legion getting all bloated and chunky. I liked that, I thought that design made him really stand out.
Overcosted as always, but this is becoming a trend with GW's bigger monstrosities. However I was hoping he was similar to Magnus in terms of price, not more expensive (especially since it looks like Morty is smaller than Maggie, in physical body if not in square volume). Costing just as much as a Knight Titan (whom I've already considered to be overcosted) is just not feasable for me.
However complaining about price is beating a dead horse at this point. The fandom knows they're overpriced (even with the numerous justifications), GW knows they're overpriced, stock holders know they're overpriced. At this point it's basically shouting at a hurricane, as even with the insane pricing, there's enough people with more money than sense to buy it to support GW, so they will continue to do it. The rest of us will probably pick one up second hand, when the comically rich get bored of it. The good thing is, with minimal options, there's no real downside to picking up a second hand one.
EDIT: If GW ever drops the price under 100 CAD, I will probably buy one. However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).
Lance845 wrote: Consider that a hive tyrant/Swarmlord kit is about 50-60 bucks and about the same physical size.
Just think about that.
Bet five dakka dollars Swarmie will get his own 'special' release in the future and be $160 or something similar. That or we get a Dominatrix.
On Topic, I like the model, but that price is really out there for him. I understand people are only ever going to buy one (barring someone who wants multiple or converters), but that still pretty steep.
I think he's an awesome model and as much as I'd like to have him in my Death Guard army, he's a bit pricey for my taste (230AUD, pricey, but what you'd expect for a one-off centrepiece huge model). I'm just adverse to special characters in my armies I'll be picking up the tallyman, marines and termies. Gonna gradually pick up the other stuff once I paint through the DG backlog.
A swarmlord is going to reliably move more units than a special character for a sub faction. For a plastic model volume of sales is key to determining the price as you have to amortise the setup costs across a number of units that you are damn sure you can sell.
Azreal's point is spot on. Models for which you forecast low sales would be better suited to resin where the setup costs are much lower. This is why the FW stuff is resin.
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MechaEmperor7000 wrote: However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).
Do you think morty is going to sell in anything like the volumes that valks did?
He's got half the sprues which means half the moulds so he'd have to sell half as well as valks to be the same price. Do you think that if he was the same price we'd see a morty sold for every two valks? Unless death guard players massively outnumber guard players I highly doubt it.
Scott-S6 wrote: A swarmlord is going to reliably move more units than a special character for a sub faction. For a plastic model volume of sales is key to determining the price as you have to amortise the setup costs across a number of units that you are damn sure you can sell.
Azreal's point is spot on. Models for which you forecast low sales would be better suited to resin where the setup costs are much lower. This is why the FW stuff is resin.
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MechaEmperor7000 wrote: However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).
Do you think morty is going to sell in anything like the volumes that valks did?
He's got half the sprues which means half the moulds so he'd have to sell half as well as valks to be the same price. Do you think that if he was the same price we'd see a morty sold for every two valks? Unless death guard players massively outnumber guard players I highly doubt it.
I bet that if he sold for 80USD he would sell twice as many.
Given that the sunk costs are really the only costs, with plastic being negligible and boxing - after design - for each additional unit also negligible, I think that it comes down to how rare GW wants the kit to remain, how they want people to feel about 100+USD characters (or for that matter common 30USD characters) going forward. In some ways, I am happy, as it keeps the collectible models collectible, as even older models hold value when modern replacements cost an arm and a kidney. In other ways, well, I do feel that they price some people out of the game. In the end, I suppose that - for me, in my position - there is more good than bad with models like this priced this way. It means that I will never have to worry about spending the two weeks I would spend on painting the model painting the model. 140USD is a LOT of beer money. So, bonus.
The per unit cost isn't negligible - the machine time is a significant expense. However, that cost is not volume dependent.
As to whether he would sell twice as many - that would depend on what the death guard / daemon primarch collector base looks like. This is a model that almost no one is going to buy in multiples for a sub faction. I would be very cautious with my sales forecasts as well.
A half price morty is the same price as a valkyrie but with half the sprues. Do you really think morty is going to sell half the units that valks have sold? Given that he's a one off purchase I don't think there are nearly enough death guard players to make that possible.
The old half the price to sell twice as many doesn't work when the total addressable market is very small.
The idea that the model only sells one per army to justify 3 times the price of a similar sized kit is nonsense. Judging by this thread alone the price point means they already lost sales. If they made the kit even 80 usd there are many who would be unhappy but willing to spend. At 70 most would probably consider it a fair price. 140? You've just sent a solid chunk of your customer base to the recasters/conversion work from cheaper models.
I'm not that impressed with the model itself, going by the GW site pictures. Ithink the pose (in either configuration) is pretty static, I think the style of wings are a weird choice, and the face... It doesn't look how I imagine Moratrion looks.
Part of that is down to the GW paintjob, which is way too pastel-light and colourful for my tastes. But going back to the face, I really dislike the stretchy-snot stuff around the rebreather - It's a focal point of the minature, and it's sculpted as if it's been miscast or melted. He looks a bit chubby too - while the disgusting fat guy aesthetic is a big theme for Nurgle, Moratrion was described as gaunt, skeletal - and this model doesn't have that imposing, sinister presence.
Really not a fan of the model at all, though I am open to changing that opinion - I think I might like it more with a different paintjob.
For Death Guard players its probably a welcome add-on and maybe a mandatory choice.
But for an non-DG player, its another immortal character with maybe rediculous rules to face.
I also think it's unreasonable considering SM get their Primarch and two additional characrters for £30 less.
Model looks cool, although it's highly dependent on paint scheme I find (which could be said for any model really, but with Mortarion it feels like grungy dark colours work best for it).
I think the price is absolutely outrageous and it completely turns me off from him. I am glad I do not play Death Guard so this is not really my problem, but even if I did I hope I would refuse to buy him out of pure spite due to the price. Its just crazy.
He looks awesome, I'll buy him eventually in a year or two. Right now I'm more interested in the other things, like new Plague Marines, all the power-armor characters, Bloat Drone and Termis. Part of that is because he's so expensive.
I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.
He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.
I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️
Good job Azreal13, you put that chump in his place.
I voted last option. Its a gak model, gak price and no one should ever buy it.
It doesn't seem like a particularly out-of-line price given how many points he costs. 3.35 points per dollar is pretty normal. He's not making Death Guard a particularly expensive army to buy into.
What's sort of offensive is that he just isn't that much plastic. Now, I don't know what all determines the cost of models to GW. Maybe all the little doodads he's got hanging off of him make him a particularly difficult one to make. But... mostly these aren't very appealing. I'd actually prefer something simpler, full stop. If something simpler would also cost half as much, then that's pretty disappointing.
Or maybe the price is just because they can't expect to sell very many of them -- it's a unique character for a single subfaction of Chaos. In that case it seems hard to complain.
Dionysodorus wrote: It doesn't seem like a particularly out-of-line price given how many points he costs. 3.35 points per dollar is pretty normal. He's not making Death Guard a particularly expensive army to buy into.
What's sort of offensive is that he just isn't that much plastic. Now, I don't know what all determines the cost of models to GW. Maybe all the little doodads he's got hanging off of him make him a particularly difficult one to make. But... mostly these aren't very appealing. I'd actually prefer something simpler, full stop. If something simpler would also cost half as much, then that's pretty disappointing.
Or maybe the price is just because they can't expect to sell very many of them -- it's a unique character for a single subfaction of Chaos. In that case it seems hard to complain.
Price is determined by how long it takes to insert the model into Nick Donaldsons bung shute in comparison with grade of pain.
I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.
He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.
I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️
Good job Azreal13, you put that chump in his place.
I voted last option. Its a gak model, gak price and no one should ever buy it.
Many find paying monthly for HBO a just cost for GOT i do not, many like MBW's and can justify the cost, i do not, everyone has points they are willing and not willing to pay for something.
I love models, i always have sense ive been 5, they give me joy, and having a model that takes days to make and weeks to paint for 160$, for me that 40hrs of enjoy meant is for sure worth it especially b.c i can display it, play with it for years to come.
You dont see value in this model, and that is Fully understandable
Not pointing you out, just using an example b.c i wanted to show a different view is all.
I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.
He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.
I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️
Good job Azreal13, you put that chump in his place.
I voted last option. Its a gak model, gak price and no one should ever buy it.
Many find paying monthly for HBO a just cost for GOT i do not, many like MBW's and can justify the cost, i do not, everyone has points they are willing and not willing to pay for something.
I love models, i always have sense ive been 5, they give me joy, and having a model that takes days to make and weeks to paint for 160$, for me that 40hrs of enjoy meant is for sure worth it especially b.c i can display it, play with it for years to come.
You dont see value in this model, and that is Fully understandable
Not pointing you out, just using an example b.c i wanted to show a different view is all.
You just described the favourite customer of any company, the person who lack objective thinking. Mortarion is a universally flawed creation, if you like it I am happy for you, but you can not use "I like it" as leverage when judging something so structurally complex and with so many dormant facets like a manifestation in 3d space.
I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.
He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.
I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️
Good job Azreal13, you put that chump in his place.
I voted last option. Its a gak model, gak price and no one should ever buy it.
Many find paying monthly for HBO a just cost for GOT i do not, many like MBW's and can justify the cost, i do not, everyone has points they are willing and not willing to pay for something.
I love models, i always have sense ive been 5, they give me joy, and having a model that takes days to make and weeks to paint for 160$, for me that 40hrs of enjoy meant is for sure worth it especially b.c i can display it, play with it for years to come.
You dont see value in this model, and that is Fully understandable
Not pointing you out, just using an example b.c i wanted to show a different view is all.
You just described the favourite customer of any company, the person who lack objective thinking. Mortarion is a universally flawed creation, if you like it I am happy for you, but you can not use "I like it" as leverage when judging something so structurally complex and with so many dormant facets like a manifestation in 3d space.
LOL WHAT? thats such a.. ok.... assuming a like all things GW (when i dont) and assume that b.c it is detail it has to have a flaw is backwards thinking. given your reason then EVERY model has flaws, and b.c you (from what i can tell) dont like flaws... why are you playing this game?
I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.
He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.
I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️
Good job Azreal13, you put that chump in his place.
I voted last option. Its a gak model, gak price and no one should ever buy it.
Many find paying monthly for HBO a just cost for GOT i do not, many like MBW's and can justify the cost, i do not, everyone has points they are willing and not willing to pay for something.
I love models, i always have sense ive been 5, they give me joy, and having a model that takes days to make and weeks to paint for 160$, for me that 40hrs of enjoy meant is for sure worth it especially b.c i can display it, play with it for years to come.
You dont see value in this model, and that is Fully understandable
Not pointing you out, just using an example b.c i wanted to show a different view is all.
You just described the favourite customer of any company, the person who lack objective thinking. Mortarion is a universally flawed creation, if you like it I am happy for you, but you can not use "I like it" as leverage when judging something so structurally complex and with so many dormant facets like a manifestation in 3d space.
LOL WHAT? thats such a.. ok.... assuming a like all things GW (when i dont) and assume that b.c it is detail it has to have a flaw is backwards thinking. given your reason then EVERY model has flaws, and b.c you (from what i can tell) dont like flaws... why are you playing this game?
Edit: Dont want to say bad things took them out.
Because this game can be great. Only thing holding it back is investors and satisfied customers.
The "how many Mortys will people buy" argument falls flat when you realize that Thanquol and Boneripper costs half the price (in fact, in CAD he costs almost the same as the Valk) and has the same amount of sprues. I doubt they projected that they would sell even more of Boneripper than, say, Nagash, the Glottkin, the generic Bloodthirster (this one especially, since THREE profiles for 40k was released for it), or the verminlords.
GW prices their models entirely based on what the current exchange rate is (and I do mean current, this has resulted in some items being more expensive in canadian than austrailia, while other items being the reverse, and sometimes items in canadian on par with US prices) and how much money they feel they can get away with, with almost zero attention to prior models (almost here, since the lord of change did get priced similarly to the BT instead of the more expensive Skarbrand).
You can try to rationalize it with all the business talk you want, but a cursory glance at GW's range can tell you that there is no real pattern to it. They have a monopoly on the game and can decide whatever price they want to set for it, and there's enough people with more money than sense to support them. As for people doing the whole "dollars to hours of enjoyment" comparison (or any of the sort really), my response is "If you need to make a justification at all, there's something wrong."
EDIT: In fact, I will take an oath now. If GW ever brings out a bundle that sets Mortarion/Magnus's price to be equal to or less than the current (as of this writing) price of Thanquol and Boneripper I will buy it/both no questions asked, even if it comes with a ton of crap that I either have or do not need (basically the bundle has a 45% discount).
If GW released a plastic Sanguinius as awesomely beautiful as Mortarion is ikky and charged £85 for him, I would curse GW for their price gouging and hand over the cash. I do tend to agree with earlier posts that Mortarion should look gaunt and skeletal in contrast to the rest of the bloated Nurgle faction.
Fortunately Mortarion is a cursed traitor so I don't need to work out how to afford him, just how to kill him.
The "if he was 80 bucks they'd sell double the amount" discussion annoys me. They're a business, I'm sure they have people calculating the price that yields the most sales versus the cost of production, correcting for the "you only need 1" argument. I'm sorry random internet guy, they know better than you. 140 is the price at which they'll sell enough to make a profit, apparantly.
Is it a lot?
Sure.
It's also my hobby, I set aside a small part of my income aside for it.
I've been playing for 20 years and the "it costs too much" discussion has been going on for as long as I've been in this game. It's become completely pointless to me. 8 wood elves for 15 guilders was considered too much.
It's always too much. Always has been, always will be.
I went to a seminar on Warhammer model design at warhammer world. The amount of time, love and thought that's poured into these models amazed me. I don't mind spending an amount of set aside money on these miniatures that artists spent months on to create.
I was turned off from GW a couple of years ago because of how I felt they were treating me as a loyal customer (last nidz codex which was missing half of the units). Now, while they're doing great, imho, as a company? I'm not too worried about it.
As for the model for Mortarion.. I had my doubts at first but it really grew on me. Can't wait to get mine next week.
I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.
He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.
I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️
Good job Azreal13, you put that chump in his place.
I voted last option. Its a gak model, gak price and no one should ever buy it.
Many find paying monthly for HBO a just cost for GOT i do not, many like MBW's and can justify the cost, i do not, everyone has points they are willing and not willing to pay for something.
I love models, i always have sense ive been 5, they give me joy, and having a model that takes days to make and weeks to paint for 160$, for me that 40hrs of enjoy meant is for sure worth it especially b.c i can display it, play with it for years to come.
You dont see value in this model, and that is Fully understandable
Not pointing you out, just using an example b.c i wanted to show a different view is all.
You just described the favourite customer of any company, the person who lack objective thinking. Mortarion is a universally flawed creation, if you like it I am happy for you, but you can not use "I like it" as leverage when judging something so structurally complex and with so many dormant facets like a manifestation in 3d space.
Universally flawed? With a different paintjob he looks spectacular. I personally won't buy it because it doesn't fit my personal aesthetics (I hate bling), but it really is not flawed for what it's supposed to be...
I'm also on board with leaving Mortarion as the last unit to pick up for my DG army.
Truth is, he's a centerpiece model and I don't really foresee using him in every game. It's gonna be annoying for opponents to have to face a primarch every time they play you, and of course he's not cheap so in smaller games it's not gonna be feasible to squeeze in the rest of the units you wanna play if you're bringing Morty along every time.I'm one of the people who's not a fan of big hero vs hero moments on the tabletop though, I prefer my home-brew chapter master/chaos lord leading the charge.
As far as the model is concerned I think he's pretty on point. The only thing I dislike is that he's floating on mist/miasma. Definitely would have preferred to have him perched on top of a rock on his own two feet. I am a huge far of them including the plumes of smoke rising from his back as an optional piece.
Price wise, he's about what I expected. The big monster heroes of each new faction over the last few years have been in the 120+/20$ range. It's hard to compare his size to other usits as a metric of cost. Look at Orks vs Harlequins: a box of 5 Harlequins costs $40, a box of 5 okr nobs costs $25. Arguably you get a lot more plastic for your money with nobz.
I look at it as a nice centerpiece model I may bring to the table on occasion. As such I'm in no hurry to pick him up; will do the rest of the army first.
The price talk is interesting. As an ork player I've mostly stayed on the lower end of the argument (I bought all 100 of my boyz on ebay for £20) but I have watched gw and how they are slowly inching their prices up again. Look at the prime marines (who are obviously going to replace normal marine models) they're all slightly more expensive to buy at £10 or so. Gw is like an ex boy friend who declared he has change but really he's just drinking and smoking behind your back.
Lance845 wrote: Consider that a hive tyrant/Swarmlord kit is about 50-60 bucks and about the same physical size.
Just think about that.
I can make arguments that this is a new Model and Game Workshop needs to 'recoup costs of development' but... the situation is always a lot more complicated then that. There really is no reason they couldn't sell this new Model at a far lower price, even half way between the current and your Stormlord example would be within the 'reasonably expected' range of most players. Selling it at a lower cost would likely lead to more Units being moved, which in turn leads to a greater profit margin. Moving more units at a cheaper price even addresses the 'development cost' equation better, as that cost is a fixed number and breaking it over more Units means it inflates the cost even less....
I, personally, view the excuse of 'development costs' to be a deflection away from the real reason they charge more for it - You Suckers are willing to pay our inflated price, so pay our inflated price!
lolman1c wrote: The price talk is interesting. As an ork player I've mostly stayed on the lower end of the argument (I bought all 100 of my boyz on ebay for £20) but I have watched gw and how they are slowly inching their prices up again. Look at the prime marines (who are obviously going to replace normal marine models) they're all slightly more expensive to buy at £10 or so. Gw is like an ex boy friend who declared he has change but really he's just drinking and smoking behind your back.
Not even. GW aren't hiding what they're doing, they're quite openly increasing prices, to the point where they discuss their approach in investor reports.
What GW do is increase the RRP of each band with each new release, hence Magnus is £80 and Mortarion is £85. They have now abandoned the annual across the board price rise, that used to breed so much ill feeling, in favour of incremental rises.
The average hobbyist doesn't seem to have quite realized this, hence we still get minor flashes of outrage with each new release, but I guess GW think that's better than a major outpouring of bile once a year. Plus there's the added bonus that a kit that's been out a year or two looks positively cheap in comparison to the latest releases!
Lance845 wrote: Consider that a hive tyrant/Swarmlord kit is about 50-60 bucks and about the same physical size.
Just think about that.
I can make arguments that this is a new Model and Game Workshop needs to 'recoup costs of development' but... the situation is always a lot more complicated then that. There really is no reason they couldn't sell this new Model at a far lower price, even half way between the current and your Stormlord example would be within the 'reasonably expected' range of most players. Selling it at a lower cost would likely lead to more Units being moved, which in turn leads to a greater profit margin. Moving more units at a cheaper price even addresses the 'development cost' equation better, as that cost is a fixed number and breaking it over more Units means it inflates the cost even less....
I, personally, view the excuse of 'development costs' to be a deflection away from the real reason they charge more for it - You Suckers are willing to pay our inflated price, so pay our inflated price!
I think you hit it right on the head. Mortarion presents a unique opportunity to ask any price because "you only need one", so most collectors will get one regardless of price if they're trying to complete their army.
The most gross example of over-the-top price inflation is the plague brethren kit: $40 for 3 marines and some paper.
On the other hand the codex is $40, which lets you get into the army for cheaper than an old codex costs and the DI sets gets you a small army for literally $60. It's a brilliant strategy; the buy in is not terrible, but as you commit you have to pay top dollar for the HQ and unique models. I mean; once you spend weeks painting your plague marines, pox walkers and characters, are you really gonna hold back over a $20-$40 inflation in cost? I consider myself pretty conservative with spending and even I am begrudgingly going to pay the price because it's a great model and I have no better/cheaper alternative to fileding him.
lolman1c wrote: The price talk is interesting. As an ork player I've mostly stayed on the lower end of the argument (I bought all 100 of my boyz on ebay for £20) but I have watched gw and how they are slowly inching their prices up again. Look at the prime marines (who are obviously going to replace normal marine models) they're all slightly more expensive to buy at £10 or so. Gw is like an ex boy friend who declared he has change but really he's just drinking and smoking behind your back.
Not even. GW aren't hiding what they're doing, they're quite openly increasing prices, to the point where they discuss their approach in investor reports.
What GW do is increase the RRP of each band with each new release, hence Magnus is £80 and Mortarion is £85. They have now abandoned the annual across the board price rise, that used to breed so much ill feeling, in favour of incremental rises.
The average hobbyist doesn't seem to have quite realized this, hence we still get minor flashes of outrage with each new release, but I guess GW think that's better than a major outpouring of bile once a year. Plus there's the added bonus that a kit that's been out a year or two looks positively cheap in comparison to the latest releases!
The main issue is, this tactic works. One of my friends deals in high end jewelry, and I mean really high end; this stuff makes Swarkovski diamonds look like costume jewelry (somewhere in the ballpark of 3000 for a pair of cufflinks. CUFFLINKS). He can not only sell this crap to people at insane prices, but actually manage to use the insane prices as a selling point. And yes, he's fully aware that the crap he's selling is crap; there is barely any difference in manufacturing his jewelry than a comparable, but far cheaper, version. But he knows how to bend his clientele through sales pitches, hype, and image, and managed to move about 4 million dollars worth of merch (which would be roughly a few thousand units) in under a month. And this was during the recession! (which he notes is an awesome time to move expensive junk for some reason; he actually did explain it to me but the intricacies of it made my brain crap out it's own brain.)
This is partially why I hate business people. Some of the tactics they use are downright dirty and diabolical; most consumers think they're smarter than the seller but the truth is far from it. The moment you think you're the smart one, you're doomed, since there's apparently whole essays (if not textbooks) written on how to exploit people thinking highly of themselves. This is why when I buy something, I always say which price I feel comfortable with (and hence, fair to me) rather than try to rationalize what would be an "ideal" price.
The above post says it as it is! Gw is as scummy as ever and you all let it happen. I've studied cults (even wrote theories about them) and how GW market and sell feels extremely cult like to me. You're not buying a game peice, you're buying the thing you need to be the top of your club, the crown of your collection, a good looking cult member! If this was about £30 it honestly would be still more expensive than I'd like to see but more ideal for a company selling a hobby game.
I'm just as bad as I love 40k but I play Ork and buy everything from Ebay so I geuss that's that... XD
One last story, I had a friend with an art degree who worked at GW and he left because they paid him peanuts! He went to work at a shopping centre as a janitor because they paid double! So obviously all this money we're pumping in isn't going towards production.
Honestly, I think that's as apocryphal as "the new kit always gets the best rules."
I think it's probably more closely matched with the hero units, elite units and big stuff have always tended to be the unit types to attract strong rules, and they're also the unit types that would be projected to sell in lower volumes than transports, troops etc.. so have been priced more highly.
For the UK Mortarion comes in at £85.00 which is comparable in price to Mangus who costs £80.00. I'll pick Mortarion up down the line but not until he would make a suitable addition to my Nurgle forces. Personally I think that the model looks to be incredibly high quality, it looks quite befitting for the character it represents and hopefully it maintains the high standards delivered so far with the 8th edition releases. It would be interesting to see some side by side comparisons of Mortarion and Magnus, as another point of consideration it would also be interesting to see a comparison with Guilliman.
Short version: I like the model, pricing is inline with comparable models but it's not purchase for me at this point in time as my current force size doesn't support it.
edit: Just in response to the proposed ideas of GW utilising resin/finecast for smaller production run models, this doesn't necessarily result in cheaper costs to the customer and based on past experience, the quality of product received by the customer is far less consistent with resin.
I won't be getting it because my Death Guard will likely never expand much further than the Dark Imperium set so I would never shell out £85, not to mention I have such a small amount of money to spend on models anyway (parents who take a dim view towards the hobby will do that to you, although you all seem like adults with jobs so it's hardly relevant) and I don't like how he looks, since I'm in the 'less bling and swirly bits' camp.
However, for a centrepiece model and something that would bring a lot of hobby enjoyment it doesn't seem too much? I dunno, I guess what I'm saying is if they released Corax for £85 I'd be straight on that for my Raven Guard successors, so I can see why DG players would buy a Mortarion. That said $140 does seem like a lot, but I there's shipping + driving it around the US + exchange rate.
It's a great model and I love how the face reminds me of 1980s Transformers art - especially Dan Reed and Andrew Wildman - and he has wings like a Zoanoid, but my Death Guard are only getting a few units other than DI as they are auxiliaries for my main Word Bearers army.
I absolutely love the model, although I am not happy at all about spending so much money on it. At least my FLGS knocks 5% off of GW's prices, although that's not much (but still better than nothing). Morty will make a great centerpiece in my up and coming Death Guard army.
FudgeDumper wrote: Mortarion is a universally flawed creation, if you like it I am happy for you, but you can not use "I like it" as leverage when judging something so structurally complex and with so many dormant facets like a manifestation in 3d space.
If a model is "universally flawed", then it would never sell because it would be flawed no matter how you looked at it.
The Mortarion model fits the Plague Marine concept pretty well, so it is not flawed there.
It's only a little more pricey than Magnus who is expected to be taller, but not necessarily bigger (i.e. volume, mass, etc), and since that has sold sufficiently well, it is not completely flawed there (though, I would have preferred a more Lord of Change/Bloodthirster price range, personally).
So, it isn't "universally flawed".
Now, you don't like it. You think that it is structurally unsound. That's fine. You obviously won't be buying it, and GW has obviously made it structurally sound (otherwise they would end up paying a LOT of shipping fees). There are plenty of people who will. The challenge is on them to not destroy the model when they build it.
Personally, it won't be on my radar, either. But that's because I'm not a Nurgle fan. I simply don't care for the aesthetics of the Plague Marines, and so Mortarion isn't my cup of tea. But I'm not under the assumption that it will be universally reviled because I don't like it.
You don't pay for the amount of plastic as much as you pay for the price of effort put into the model. Im sure all the design technology, the requirement and payment for the effort put into the model.
You do end up paying for quality because quality directly affects the amount GW pays for the employees to design the product.
Again any justifications for the price of this thing goes out the window when you realize that Thanquol and Boneripper exists. Or that Nagash exists. Or the Glottkin. And so forth.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Again any justifications for the price of this thing goes out the window when you realize that Thanquol and Boneripper exists. Or that Nagash exists. Or the Glottkin. And so forth.
For you, for many others that might not be the case.
I know friends that spend $30 a meal once or twice i week, i never spend more than $10 and if it is that high its only once a week.
Different people have different values in things, even if it was $250 someone would still find value in it.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Again any justifications for the price of this thing goes out the window when you realize that Thanquol and Boneripper exists. Or that Nagash exists. Or the Glottkin. And so forth.
For you, for many others that might not be the case.
I know friends that spend $30 a meal once or twice i week, i never spend more than $10 and if it is that high its only once a week.
Different people have different values in things, even if it was $250 someone would still find value in it.
I think you're mixing up "justification" with "perceived value".
Perceived value is whatever the consumer thinks it's worth, which is subjective depending on who's seeing it. If you have no problem blowing a few hundred dollars on one set that clearly has been marked up compared to another one, that is your perceived value. Trying to explain why the price is like that is Justification.
A set like Thanquol and Boneripper being priced at nearly half of the cost of Mortarion kills almost all of the arguments for why the price is what it is; Both are centerpiece models projected to only sell once per player of that army, both comes on two detailed large size sprues, and both are roughly of the same size. Yet one is 93CAD and the other is 170CAD. This also holds true for Nagash, the Glottkin and even Morty's own brother Magnus (the UK price seem to be more reasonable, but the Canadian price is a 30 dollar increase from Magnus, and last I checked 5 pounds is not worth 30 CAD). These are not opinions, these are the bare facts, and they don't change from person to person. If you're fine with paying for Morty, then by all means go for it. But it doesn't suddenly mean his sprues randomly doubled in cost to get produced.
He's small and extremely expensive. On top of that, he sports the ungainly "solid effects" parts GW is so fond of, and they never have nor ever will look good. A pass for me.
PS The rationalization put forth by some of the members here is just sad. Dollar per point ratio? Get out of here!
Well, 110€ for about 400pts (?). Idk, you'd need 60 Ork boyz to get similar points so that's 6 Boxes @ 23€ per box meaning 138€.
So buck for points he doesn't seem too far off and as a model it is absolutely bristling with detail and bits. But I'm not going to buy him since I don't collect DG (yet).
40k is not a cheap hobby, it baffles me how people "realize" this over and over again. If you can't afford it, you don't need to buy it. If you think GW is ripping you off, stop buying their product and stop whining about their prices. Just my 2 cents.
lolman1c wrote: The price talk is interesting. As an ork player I've mostly stayed on the lower end of the argument (I bought all 100 of my boyz on ebay for £20) but I have watched gw and how they are slowly inching their prices up again. Look at the prime marines (who are obviously going to replace normal marine models) they're all slightly more expensive to buy at £10 or so. Gw is like an ex boy friend who declared he has change but really he's just drinking and smoking behind your back.
Not even. GW aren't hiding what they're doing, they're quite openly increasing prices, to the point where they discuss their approach in investor reports.
What GW do is increase the RRP of each band with each new release, hence Magnus is £80 and Mortarion is £85. They have now abandoned the annual across the board price rise, that used to breed so much ill feeling, in favour of incremental rises.
The average hobbyist doesn't seem to have quite realized this, hence we still get minor flashes of outrage with each new release, but I guess GW think that's better than a major outpouring of bile once a year. Plus there's the added bonus that a kit that's been out a year or two looks positively cheap in comparison to the latest releases!
Yeah, i remember reading somewhere on the internet that someone in gw had the idea that you could price character models more expensive than normal models because of their importance. The rest is history. The annual price rise is gone, now every new model is more expensive than the last, leading to primus marines costing $60 australian for a single model. $60 bucks. I always justify my vices based around the cost of a pack of cigarettes. $60 is a few days worth of smoking on the black market, and it's one fricken dude. I can afford it, i just can't justify it.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote:I won't be getting it because my Death Guard will likely never expand much further than the Dark Imperium set so I would never shell out £85, not to mention I have such a small amount of money to spend on models anyway (parents who take a dim view towards the hobby will do that to you, although you all seem like adults with jobs so it's hardly relevant) and I don't like how he looks, since I'm in the 'less bling and swirly bits' camp.
However, for a centrepiece model and something that would bring a lot of hobby enjoyment it doesn't seem too much? I dunno, I guess what I'm saying is if they released Corax for £85 I'd be straight on that for my Raven Guard successors, so I can see why DG players would buy a Mortarion. That said $140 does seem like a lot, but I there's shipping + driving it around the US + exchange rate.
Are your sure they're taking a dim view towards the hobby itself, and not the prices per what you get? 85 pounds calculates to $140 australian dollars (i'm australian, so my world revolves around that). That's a lot of money for a small piece of plastic. I never understood why my parents laughed at me for spending money on "high quality plastic" but now i do. That's almost a week's rent. I guess it's just about priorities, but when something starts reaching that level of expense, it better have more intrinsic value to it than being a centrepiece for a game. As i said above, i could spend the money i just can't justify it......
They are both roughly the same size in proportion. GW Morty stands taller because he is in the air. Morty unofficial is easy enough to convert into a flying pose if you so choose.
Do you like the official weapons/wings more? I bet with the 93.00 you are saving you can buy the bits off ebay and still not be paying close to the official price. You could get the unofficial model and have a massive budget for bits to customize and kit bash with. I am sure many will be buying official Morty. Good on you.
For half the cost you could be building your own bad ass morty and at about 1/3rd the cost just have one thats good enough and by that I mean pretty great.
The problem with models with that price is the GW is going to make them very good, I'd say mandatory, in the game, which means every time you face the DG the primarch shows up. Just like the ultramarines, Gulliman is always there in any competitive list.
Who's gonna pay 110 euros for a model that is not essential? Just some collectors.
But I'm not interested in a game among two immortal superheroes and some other units that are there only to justify the clash of the two titans.
Unfortunately it seems that GW is going towards that direction, I really hope those silly big models won't generate enough profits to keep going with this politics.
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Weazel wrote: Well, 110€ for about 400pts (?). Idk, you'd need 60 Ork boyz to get similar points so that's 6 Boxes @ 23€ per box meaning 138€.
So buck for points he doesn't seem too far off and as a model it is absolutely bristling with detail and bits. But I'm not going to buy him since I don't collect DG (yet).
40k is not a cheap hobby, it baffles me how people "realize" this over and over again. If you can't afford it, you don't need to buy it. If you think GW is ripping you off, stop buying their product and stop whining about their prices. Just my 2 cents.
60 boyz, even if they are way smaller, cannot be compared to a single one model. 110 euros for ONE model is absurd, even if it's a huge one, it's still a single dude. And while 60 boyz should be a standard build for an ork army, the nurgle superhero should be something exceptional, not something that shows up everytime. But with a price like that, who's gonna buy the model and then keep it on the bench?
When they first started showing his stats, I felt like "well, he's really powerful, but at least you can focus him down with mass fire"
<GW> Oh, did we forget to tell you about Deathshroud?
The price is completely unreasonable. 60-70usd would be reasonable. The thing is, they've costed him like the size he is, and then they've added the character tax. The character tax is on every character that your army only ever needs one of. they always cost considerably more than anything you can use several of.
Weazel wrote: Well, 110€ for about 400pts (?). Idk, you'd need 60 Ork boyz to get similar points so that's 6 Boxes @ 23€ per box meaning 138€.
So buck for points he doesn't seem too far off and as a model it is absolutely bristling with detail and bits. But I'm not going to buy him since I don't collect DG (yet).
40k is not a cheap hobby, it baffles me how people "realize" this over and over again. If you can't afford it, you don't need to buy it. If you think GW is ripping you off, stop buying their product and stop whining about their prices. Just my 2 cents.
I hate people who say "just don't buy 40k" because they forget many of us got i to this game with friends and it's now a regular part of our life. If we leave we lose all those friends we see every Wednesday at the club. And GW knows this! It's why they push it as a hobby rather than a game! They can charge what ever they want because we won't risk losing our friends or we want to be on par with our friend who has girly man.... it's a sick tactic similar to what the mobile games use and honestly should be monitored more.
Weazel wrote: Well, 110€ for about 400pts (?). Idk, you'd need 60 Ork boyz to get similar points so that's 6 Boxes @ 23€ per box meaning 138€.
So buck for points he doesn't seem too far off and as a model it is absolutely bristling with detail and bits. But I'm not going to buy him since I don't collect DG (yet).
40k is not a cheap hobby, it baffles me how people "realize" this over and over again. If you can't afford it, you don't need to buy it. If you think GW is ripping you off, stop buying their product and stop whining about their prices. Just my 2 cents.
There is a strange juxtaposition between "GW is such a rip off" and "I have so much unpainted plastic I don't know what to with it".
I think the divide might be between people who buy armies all at once and those who accumulate over years. This is an expensive model, but if I bought this instead of three other kits over 3~ months? Not especially. As you say similar points, similar likelihood of getting on a table.
Its a bit on the nose but you wince and its done. Its far less upsetting to me than regular characters - for instance the new Primaris Captain, Librarian etc. If monopose wasn't the order of the day you could make thembfrom regular Primaris at a fraction of the cost.
I find the model to be incredibly boring. He is a daemon prince, but in reality looks like a big, slightly mutated (by chaos standard) marine. I realise that he has always been depicted in the artwork this way, but at least in the artwork he had angelic wings, so there was a fallen angel theme to it. But the model has fly wings, to make it more nurgle-y I guess, but that makes him lose his fallen angel theme, turning him into a big dude. Another, more important complaint I have, is that he is filled from top to bottom with all sorts of details. Not a single primarch, 30k or 40k has this mmuch stuff on it. This esentialy takes away most freedom of expresion from the artist, and I think proof of that is in the box art. The model is filled with som much crap on it that Mortarion, daemon primarch of nurgle doesn't have a single speck of rust, grime or puss on him!!! This is because the model is already so confusing that adding such detail would ultimatley have a negative effect on the paintjob. Compare that to 40k magnus for example. Sure he has a few runes and horns here and there, but for the most part, the model isn't very detailed. This allows you to express yourself and truly make the model your own, the centerpiece of your army. If you look for magnus paintjobs, the top ones are all different, I could write an essay on all the different types of wings I've seen. And Mortarion? You can, like pick a colour scheme and that's it. There isn't one surface on the entire model that can be interpreted in different ways, other than the wings maybe.
FudgeDumper wrote: Mortarion is a universally flawed creation, if you like it I am happy for you, but you can not use "I like it" as leverage when judging something so structurally complex and with so many dormant facets like a manifestation in 3d space.
If a model is "universally flawed", then it would never sell because it would be flawed no matter how you looked at it.
The Mortarion model fits the Plague Marine concept pretty well, so it is not flawed there.
It's only a little more pricey than Magnus who is expected to be taller, but not necessarily bigger (i.e. volume, mass, etc), and since that has sold sufficiently well, it is not completely flawed there (though, I would have preferred a more Lord of Change/Bloodthirster price range, personally).
So, it isn't "universally flawed".
Now, you don't like it. You think that it is structurally unsound. That's fine. You obviously won't be buying it, and GW has obviously made it structurally sound (otherwise they would end up paying a LOT of shipping fees). There are plenty of people who will. The challenge is on them to not destroy the model when they build it.
Personally, it won't be on my radar, either. But that's because I'm not a Nurgle fan. I simply don't care for the aesthetics of the Plague Marines, and so Mortarion isn't my cup of tea. But I'm not under the assumption that it will be universally reviled because I don't like it.
Unfortunately it will sell because the player base is flawed.
I really like Mortarion as a model, and the Price isn't that off to me. Take a look at the prices for other super-heavy units around that point value and he fits in quite well.
I won't buy him since I only play loyalist armies, but I'm looking forward to the next loyalist Primarch. I wasn't happy with Robby (and didn't buy him), but both Magnus and Mortarion look great.
Now if they would make a Sanguinius as good as Mortarion, including wings and stuff, I'd buy him even though I don't play BA and I don't think he should be revived. Just for the model.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Overcosted as always, but this is becoming a trend with GW's bigger monstrosities. However I was hoping he was similar to Magnus in terms of price, not more expensive (especially since it looks like Morty is smaller than Maggie, in physical body if not in square volume). Costing just as much as a Knight Titan (whom I've already considered to be overcosted) is just not feasable for me.
However complaining about price is beating a dead horse at this point. The fandom knows they're overpriced (even with the numerous justifications), GW knows they're overpriced, stock holders know they're overpriced. At this point it's basically shouting at a hurricane, as even with the insane pricing, there's enough people with more money than sense to buy it to support GW, so they will continue to do it. The rest of us will probably pick one up second hand, when the comically rich get bored of it. The good thing is, with minimal options, there's no real downside to picking up a second hand one.
EDIT: If GW ever drops the price under 100 CAD, I will probably buy one. However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).
Except that the Valkyrie is guaranteed to sell more, so doesn't require as much to recoup losses. The Valkyrie sculpt also didn't require nearly as much time sculpting and designing, so it was priced lower. The price of plastic is almost negligible when compared to these two points. Also, By that logic, all shoes should cost the exact same price, as they are of similar size and quantity of material. Is it overpriced? A bit. But I can't find any competitors that can provide me with better alternatives; they come close, but always fall short.
Purifier wrote:When they first started showing his stats, I felt like "well, he's really powerful, but at least you can focus him down with mass fire"
<GW> Oh, did we forget to tell you about Deathshroud?
The price is completely unreasonable. 60-70usd would be reasonable. The thing is, they've costed him like the size he is, and then they've added the character tax. The character tax is on every character that your army only ever needs one of. they always cost considerably more than anything you can use several of.
The Deathshroud is a little better because of the excess amounts of Lords of Contagion floating around. I'm willing to bet people can convert up entire units of Deathshroud at a quarter of the price just by buying second-hand Lords of contagions and adding a scythe.
cerberus_ wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Overcosted as always, but this is becoming a trend with GW's bigger monstrosities. However I was hoping he was similar to Magnus in terms of price, not more expensive (especially since it looks like Morty is smaller than Maggie, in physical body if not in square volume). Costing just as much as a Knight Titan (whom I've already considered to be overcosted) is just not feasable for me.
However complaining about price is beating a dead horse at this point. The fandom knows they're overpriced (even with the numerous justifications), GW knows they're overpriced, stock holders know they're overpriced. At this point it's basically shouting at a hurricane, as even with the insane pricing, there's enough people with more money than sense to buy it to support GW, so they will continue to do it. The rest of us will probably pick one up second hand, when the comically rich get bored of it. The good thing is, with minimal options, there's no real downside to picking up a second hand one.
EDIT: If GW ever drops the price under 100 CAD, I will probably buy one. However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).
Except that the Valkyrie is guaranteed to sell more, so doesn't require as much to recoup losses. The Valkyrie sculpt also didn't require nearly as much time sculpting and designing, so it was priced lower. The price of plastic is almost negligible when compared to these two points. Also, By that logic, all shoes should cost the exact same price, as they are of similar size and quantity of material. Is it overpriced? A bit. But I can't find any competitors that can provide me with better alternatives; they come close, but always fall short.
Might wanna read the rest of the thread first. Thanquol and Boneripper exists, has the same amount of detail, is roughly the same size (in fact I think Boneripper is bigger than morty's body) and has the same amount of sprues. But that costs closer to the valk. Morty has no excuse.
EDIT: The shoes analogy doesn't work. A pair of real leather shoes with metal accents will cost materially more than a pair of discount running shoes made out of nylon or whatever synthetics is poplar nowadays. Hell, even pleather shoes can be made to look exactly like the real leather shoes while the material only cost a fraction. And let's not even get into shoes made with rare materials. Not to mention a well-made pair of shoes can be cheap as well; I've worn no-name brand shoes that lasted longer and were more comfortable than the most expensive nike sneakers, despite the latter ostensibly being of a "higher quality".
Ah pricing complaints. A thing on every warhammer/40k forum since AOL was the primary ISP.
I still remember when the internet lost its **** when land raider came out in summer of 2000 and cost $45 and pages of threads comparing it to tamya M1-Abrams models and how GW was screwing people over with its costs and would go out of business any day now because its prices were too high.
Or the plastic skeleton kit. 20 plastic skeletons for $20. You'd have thought GW murdered everyone's mothers at that price point.
lolman1c wrote: The above post says it as it is! Gw is as scummy as ever and you all let it happen. I've studied cults (even wrote theories about them) and how GW market and sell feels extremely cult like to me. You're not buying a game peice, you're buying the thing you need to be the top of your club, the crown of your collection, a good looking cult member! If this was about £30 it honestly would be still more expensive than I'd like to see but more ideal for a company selling a hobby game.
I'm just as bad as I love 40k but I play Ork and buy everything from Ebay so I geuss that's that... XD
One last story, I had a friend with an art degree who worked at GW and he left because they paid him peanuts! He went to work at a shopping centre as a janitor because they paid double! So obviously all this money we're pumping in isn't going towards production.
lolman1c wrote: The above post says it as it is! Gw is as scummy as ever and you all let it happen. I've studied cults (even wrote theories about them) and how GW market and sell feels extremely cult like to me. You're not buying a game peice, you're buying the thing you need to be the top of your club, the crown of your collection, a good looking cult member! If this was about £30 it honestly would be still more expensive than I'd like to see but more ideal for a company selling a hobby game.
I'm just as bad as I love 40k but I play Ork and buy everything from Ebay so I geuss that's that... XD
One last story, I had a friend with an art degree who worked at GW and he left because they paid him peanuts! He went to work at a shopping centre as a janitor because they paid double! So obviously all this money we're pumping in isn't going towards production.
So.... consumerism is a cult? We postmodern now.
Not consumerism, GW. They have warriors defending them like a religion! If you can't see the difference between marketing from GW and a super market then no point having this discussion.
auticus wrote: Ah pricing complaints. A thing on every warhammer/40k forum since AOL was the primary ISP.
I still remember when the internet lost its **** when land raider came out in summer of 2000 and cost $45 and pages of threads comparing it to tamya M1-Abrams models and how GW was screwing people over with its costs and would go out of business any day now because its prices were too high.
Or the plastic skeleton kit. 20 plastic skeletons for $20. You'd have thought GW murdered everyone's mothers at that price point.
You must have missed the price hike of '12 (or was it '11? Can't remember). People treated like GW was denying humanitarian aid to flood victims. Petitions, boycotts, and in one case a drive-by-pieing happened.
They are both roughly the same size in proportion. GW Morty stands taller because he is in the air. Morty unofficial is easy enough to convert into a flying pose if you so choose.
Do you like the official weapons/wings more? I bet with the 93.00 you are saving you can buy the bits off ebay and still not be paying close to the official price. You could get the unofficial model and have a massive budget for bits to customize and kit bash with. I am sure many will be buying official Morty. Good on you.
For half the cost you could be building your own bad ass morty and at about 1/3rd the cost just have one thats good enough and by that I mean pretty great.
This dude is much cooler than the new gw Morty IMHO.
Wow.
I see no reason to stick with gw models anymore.
I am looking forward to a 41st age ruleset and counts as WYSIWYG models from third party sources becoming the community standard.
No reason not to.
I live in Notts, so sticking to GW sets makes a lot of sense for me, playing weekly on WW tables for free probably saves as much as I would by getting third party stuff. TBH as I look at the price hikes and the trends in quality, options, and inflation in general, I don't feel all that ripped off. Primaris Apothecary for £22, I'll draw the line there, but then I can easily kitbash a second hand Command Squad guy and Intercessor as an alternative if I ever want to pay for an extra wound on a support character. Big mark up on centrepiece models? If they made a big Lorgar, I'd happily throw £70 at my discounting FLGS for him. Still be far better value to me than a video game with preposterous amounts of content paywalled behind DLC and a subscription fee to boot. I looked at how much the full Smash Bros lot would cost when the basic game was on sale, and just unplugged my Wii U & headed off to Emporium to start my next detachment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Out of interest - how much profit do GW make on the boxed games? My FLGS discounts them 10% and even more than that on bulk/preorders, so the trade price must have some leeway. The minis in these sets work out even cheaper than the crappy monopose 1990s £10 tactical squad. What did you think this transnational corporation was doing, just writing off the opportunity cost of selling at that price? Or recouping it elsewhere with premium kits priced to compete with a limited edition release day videogame? When I was starting in the hobby, we were importing Chrono Trigger for £70 plus a new NTSC-PAL region adapter. If we'd had actual primarch kits, that didn't fall apart under their own weight due to being made of solid lumps of lead, that would have been the best main christmas present ever.
Capitalism wrings you for every drop. Prices are set at what they think the profit sweet spot will probably be. I'm a bloody commie, and I stopped complaining about GW prices when a friend asked me to price up her father-in-law's 56mm tin soldiers. HOLY CRAP do we get it good with warhammer kits that present countless creative possibilities. If your kid asks for a plastic monster that's more expensive than a larger Tamiya battleship, just be glad it's an actual thing that exists and not a pile of Monopoly money to feed the free-to-play racket.
FudgeDumper wrote:Unfortunately it will sell because the player base is flawed.
What an interesting way to insult the posters who have shown interest in the model.
It's Fudge. I can only imagine someone's secondary account made only to try and troll/seed dissent (as if that's needed on this forum.) Just look at the rest of his posts. Especially the threads he started.
lindsay40k wrote: I live in Notts, so sticking to GW sets makes a lot of sense for me, playing weekly on WW tables for free probably saves as much as I would by getting third party stuff. TBH as I look at the price hikes and the trends in quality, options, and inflation in general, I don't feel all that ripped off. Primaris Apothecary for £22, I'll draw the line there, but then I can easily kitbash a second hand Command Squad guy and Intercessor as an alternative if I ever want to pay for an extra wound on a support character. Big mark up on centrepiece models? If they made a big Lorgar, I'd happily throw £70 at my discounting FLGS for him. Still be far better value to me than a video game with preposterous amounts of content paywalled behind DLC and a subscription fee to boot. I looked at how much the full Smash Bros lot would cost when the basic game was on sale, and just unplugged my Wii U & headed off to Emporium to start my next detachment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Out of interest - how much profit do GW make on the boxed games? My FLGS discounts them 10% and even more than that on bulk/preorders, so the trade price must have some leeway. The minis in these sets work out even cheaper than the crappy monopose 1990s £10 tactical squad. What did you think this transnational corporation was doing, just writing off the opportunity cost of selling at that price? Or recouping it elsewhere with premium kits priced to compete with a limited edition release day videogame? When I was starting in the hobby, we were importing Chrono Trigger for £70 plus a new NTSC-PAL region adapter. If we'd had actual primarch kits, that didn't fall apart under their own weight due to being made of solid lumps of lead, that would have been the best main christmas present ever.
Capitalism wrings you for every drop. Prices are set at what they think the profit sweet spot will probably be. I'm a bloody commie, and I stopped complaining about GW prices when a friend asked me to price up her father-in-law's 56mm tin soldiers. HOLY CRAP do we get it good with warhammer kits that present countless creative possibilities. If your kid asks for a plastic monster that's more expensive than a larger Tamiya battleship, just be glad it's an actual thing that exists and not a pile of Monopoly money to feed the free-to-play racket.
I have no idea what the actual figures are but according to two separate FLGSs here, the boxed games sell far better than 40k stuff proper. In fact Bloodbowl has overtaken 40k in terms of sales (which is astounding considering it's made up of one big box game and several tiny sets) in one of the stores. So I would guess net profits are better on the boxed games.
They are both roughly the same size in proportion. GW Morty stands taller because he is in the air. Morty unofficial is easy enough to convert into a flying pose if you so choose.
Do you like the official weapons/wings more? I bet with the 93.00 you are saving you can buy the bits off ebay and still not be paying close to the official price. You could get the unofficial model and have a massive budget for bits to customize and kit bash with. I am sure many will be buying official Morty. Good on you.
For half the cost you could be building your own bad ass morty and at about 1/3rd the cost just have one thats good enough and by that I mean pretty great.
Honestly I find that model much uglier and somehow busier than the regular one, which doesn't make any sense.
They are both roughly the same size in proportion. GW Morty stands taller because he is in the air. Morty unofficial is easy enough to convert into a flying pose if you so choose.
Do you like the official weapons/wings more? I bet with the 93.00 you are saving you can buy the bits off ebay and still not be paying close to the official price. You could get the unofficial model and have a massive budget for bits to customize and kit bash with. I am sure many will be buying official Morty. Good on you.
For half the cost you could be building your own bad ass morty and at about 1/3rd the cost just have one thats good enough and by that I mean pretty great.
Honestly I find that model much uglier and somehow busier than the regular one, which doesn't make any sense.
+1
I find the GW model much superior, 50 times better
They are both roughly the same size in proportion. GW Morty stands taller because he is in the air. Morty unofficial is easy enough to convert into a flying pose if you so choose.
Do you like the official weapons/wings more? I bet with the 93.00 you are saving you can buy the bits off ebay and still not be paying close to the official price. You could get the unofficial model and have a massive budget for bits to customize and kit bash with. I am sure many will be buying official Morty. Good on you.
For half the cost you could be building your own bad ass morty and at about 1/3rd the cost just have one thats good enough and by that I mean pretty great.
Honestly I find that model much uglier and somehow busier than the regular one, which doesn't make any sense.
+1
I find the GW model much superior, 50 times better
I hate the wargamexclusive models, I'm sure there is a good, cheap 'not-Mortarion' but I'd never get it from them.
lolman1c wrote: The above post says it as it is! Gw is as scummy as ever and you all let it happen. I've studied cults (even wrote theories about them) and how GW market and sell feels extremely cult like to me. You're not buying a game peice, you're buying the thing you need to be the top of your club, the crown of your collection, a good looking cult member! If this was about £30 it honestly would be still more expensive than I'd like to see but more ideal for a company selling a hobby game.
I'm just as bad as I love 40k but I play Ork and buy everything from Ebay so I geuss that's that... XD
One last story, I had a friend with an art degree who worked at GW and he left because they paid him peanuts! He went to work at a shopping centre as a janitor because they paid double! So obviously all this money we're pumping in isn't going towards production.
So.... consumerism is a cult? We postmodern now.
Not consumerism, GW. They have warriors defending them like a religion! If you can't see the difference between marketing from GW and a super market then no point having this discussion.
So almost every video game franchise, television series, car manufacturer, etc. are cults for having fanboys defend them? Either you aren't elaborating your position to it's fullest, or this line of reasoning is faulty.
I'd definitely agree that the alternative given is not at all better than the GW one (in fact I find the GW considerably better,) and anyone that says the GW Mortarion looks too cartoony must bleed from the eyes when seeing that alternative. Everything bulges in comical ways on it.
That said, it's not a horrible model, and it is a fraction of the cost, so I can definitely see it being an alternative if you want to restrict your GW splurging.
The only really good Mortarion model in my opinion is the FW Mortarion, but he's much smaller. I imagine a nice huge scenic base for him would be an acceptable substitute though. I don't know if everyone realises this, but the new Morty is on a 100mm base. He's monstrously big.
FudgeDumper wrote:Unfortunately it will sell because the player base is flawed.
What an interesting way to insult the posters who have shown interest in the model.
Its only an insult if it isn't true.
Incorrect. An insult is an attack, it doesn't matter the truthfulness or not. You deliberately attacked everyone who wants to get Mortarion as flawed. You also deliberately attacked everyone who is currently purchasing, has purchased, or will purchase 40K, over this model. That would include yourself if the shoe fits.
Simply put, there is no need for this and is actually counter to the rules of this forum.
Purifier wrote: I'd definitely agree that the alternative given is not at all better than the GW one (in fact I find the GW considerably better,) and anyone that says the GW Mortarion looks too cartoony must bleed from the eyes when seeing that alternative. Everything bulges in comical ways on it.
That said, it's not a horrible model, and it is a fraction of the cost, so I can definitely see it being an alternative if you want to restrict your GW splurging.
The only really good Mortarion model in my opinion is the FW Mortarion, but he's much smaller. I imagine a nice huge scenic base for him would be an acceptable substitute though. I don't know if everyone realises this, but the new Morty is on a 100mm base. He's monstrously big.
Actually I think someone did a photoshop scale of the models and the FW mortarion's body isn't that much smaller than the GW one (like, the difference is basically the percentage between a tactical marine and a deathwatch marine). It's the random junk he has on and gigantic wings that makes him big.
Purifier wrote: I'd definitely agree that the alternative given is not at all better than the GW one (in fact I find the GW considerably better,) and anyone that says the GW Mortarion looks too cartoony must bleed from the eyes when seeing that alternative. Everything bulges in comical ways on it.
That said, it's not a horrible model, and it is a fraction of the cost, so I can definitely see it being an alternative if you want to restrict your GW splurging.
The only really good Mortarion model in my opinion is the FW Mortarion, but he's much smaller. I imagine a nice huge scenic base for him would be an acceptable substitute though. I don't know if everyone realises this, but the new Morty is on a 100mm base. He's monstrously big.
Actually I think someone did a photoshop scale of the models and the FW mortarion's body isn't that much smaller than the GW one (like, the difference is basically the percentage between a tactical marine and a deathwatch marine). It's the random junk he has on and gigantic wings that makes him big.
You sure they got it right?
Compare them, and remember that FW is on 60mm base, GW is on 100mm base.
FW mortarion even without the wings and all the other things GW's mortarion has, is noticiable smaller. The photo comparison MechaEMperor is talking about didn't taked in account how GW's Mortarion has his legs flexionated and his head is forward. He isn't in a straight pose.
Amishprn86 wrote: If thats a 60mm base compare to a 100mm, can you resize the 60mm base to fit the difference of the 100mm base?
I threw up a quick comparison with a rough measurement, but it's probably a little off and angles probably isn't helping, because while I maintain new Morty is huge, this one just looks way too much... but I mean.. feel free to measure it up. The ratios do check out, as far as that can help us here. Going by base size and that he's a little angled, it seems like he has a wing span of almost 20cm.
I think the pic I saw had FW morty repositioned in a more floaty pose with putty, but yeah now that I think about it the GW one was chunkier. Nurgle likes em EXTRA THICC.
However I think FW morty is a bit larger than that. That comparison photo would put FW morty roughly the same size as a normal Plague Marine
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I think the pic I saw had FW morty repositioned in a more floaty pose with putty, but yeah now that I think about it the GW one was chunkier. Nurgle likes em EXTRA THICC.
However I think FW morty is a bit larger than that. That comparison photo would put FW morty roughly the same size as a normal Plague Marine
The new Plague Marines are Primaris-sized. It's actually not far off. My friend just painted his FW Morty, and it doesn't look out of place among his Plague Marines. Slightly bigger in the way a minor character might be, but not monstrous in any way. If anything, your picture makes me believe my comparison is closer than I thought.
I like the model and have a small Death Guard force, but I won't be buying Mortarion. My main Chaos army is non-nurgle and it would seem weird to have Morty leading a massive undivided force.
That aside I think the price is unreasonable. He's only $10 AUD more than Magnus, which is fair enough (I expected more) but that still puts him at $230 AUD. I can give GW a pass on upping the price $10-20 over the US for infantry kits, tanks and whatnot but it is very hard to stomach over a $50 AU difference for no good reason.
He's not a tiny mini. They showed him next to Magnus and he's easily 90% of Magnus' size (losing out on sheer bulk, and larger wings).
I think he's overstyled, but I think a good modeler/painter could turn him into a gem. The colour scheme GW has done on all of their Death Guard stuff is pretty garbage (and ruins the aesthetic of the entire line even moreso). I wish he was much better styled/modeled, personally. I've always preferred a more creepy, less 3rd-grader styled Chaos aesthetic though.
At $140 he's in the stratosphere price range for miniatures...but it's what people pay, particularly for GW products (which, like it or not have a rather unique consumer base).
Rules-wise I think he's a friggin' boss, and in general find the entire Death Guard codex to look really damn strong - and I think it's the start of some serious codex creep as expected.
Also consider from a gameplay perspective, you're only going to buy one.
Sure, some gluttons may buy more for reselling because they are awesome painters who can make Midas jealous with all the golden touch they have, or whatever other reason some people buy more than one of a Unique model, but that is a point to its cost.
The average person would only ever buy one, so GW seeks to milk it as much as possible. Mortarion is not like a Vendetta which a person might buy enough to recreate the Ride of the Valkyries Age of Apocalypse scene with, so that is another reason for the price point. It sucks for you and me, but they do have to pay for those plastic molds somehow.
Found the image, I thought it was buried in a thread somewhere but turns out it was on the first page of the rumors, just way down there.
And him next to Magnus
in terms of pure height he's about the same as Magnus with his wingspan, but Magnus's body is considerably larger than Morty.
Also I think far more Mortarions will sell than Magnus, and I think this might actually be why he's more expensive; he's perfect as the basis for the conversion of a Daemon Prince with Wings (not even just nurgle). He's not comically huge like Magnus and comes with wings, and is one of the few DP-sized models with actual Power Armor (the current plastic DP set only has the upper chest, not the legs, which makes them look weird).
As I said, the first comparison picture with FW Mortarion isn't right. As you can see in the 360º pick in GW site, Mortarion head is inclined forward, he isn't straight. Plus, he has his legs flexed.
GW's Mortarion is notably bigger than FW one. (In the other hand, GW Guilliman is nearlly the same size as FW's Guilliman)
I don't think Magnus is much taller than Mortarion if Mortarion was straight like Magnus is, but Magnus is bigger in general, more taller and wide.
I was gonna do a comparison between Magnus's Thigh size and Morty's torso but when I clicked on Magnus I noticed his price is actaully 160. I think I complained Morty had a larger proportional price hike earlier? I take that back. Both of them are overcosted! (Magnus actually has three sprues compared to Morty's 2, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because his sprues are less cluttered than Morty's and Magnus is largely hollow)
But yeah if you look at the sprues, Magnus's one leg is anywhere from two and a half to three times the length of Morty's torso. And Magnus's leg isn't even outstretched fully (unlike Morty's leg).
However Magnus is always known as the biggest of the Primarchs, so i can understand why he suddenly hit Daemon Puberty when he ascended while Mortarion only gained an inch.
Why would anyone use a fw mortarion that has obviously been greenstuffed to be considerably taller than he actually is, in order to make a size comparison? Not to mention that he has been reposed to be fully stretchdd, while the new morty is curled in.
FudgeDumper wrote:Unfortunately it will sell because the player base is flawed.
What an interesting way to insult the posters who have shown interest in the model.
It's Fudge. I can only imagine someone's secondary account made only to try and troll/seed dissent (as if that's needed on this forum.) Just look at the rest of his posts. Especially the threads he started.
Yeah the username gives the likely intentions away...
GW prices is terrible but looking at the other retailers he costs around 75€. Its still expensive for a plastic figure but given that hes a big and cool centerpiece model you only buy one of and hopefully will get used on the table til and from for a couple of years I think I will get the value back. Just painting him will probably be 50+ hours with my speed..
Its still expensive for a plastic figure but given that hes a big and cool centerpiece model you only buy one of and hopefully will get used on the table til and from for a couple of years I think I will get the value back.
IMHO that's the real problem. GW is going towards the direction that those superheroes are needed and armies can't play without them unless being less competitive. Facing guilliman, mortarion, celestine, etc EVERY SINGLE GAME is boring. But if you pay a price like that for a single model, how can you bench it?
Every single model that I buy is part of the army, not the army itself, and I love using all the models in my collection, or at least the majority of them. Facing everytime the same list is boring and kills the game. If you include guilliman in a SM list you're forced to play a gunline with tanks, devastators and flyers, always the same list with few variations. And we're talking about an army with tons of options. Deathguard don't have the SM catalogue and I fear that this big superhero would show up everytime if you face his faction, always joined by the same units which would be the ones with the best synergies with the big guy.
FudgeDumper wrote:Unfortunately it will sell because the player base is flawed.
What an interesting way to insult the posters who have shown interest in the model.
It's Fudge. I can only imagine someone's secondary account made only to try and troll/seed dissent (as if that's needed on this forum.) Just look at the rest of his posts. Especially the threads he started.
Yeah the username gives the likely intentions away...
Who keeps deleting my posts, how come the original offender's posts didn't get deleted? This is my first and only account and I am 100% sincere. I always go by this username because I love fudge and I love dumpers. I'm sorry that I came in here and destroyed your little paradise, but one should never fear criticism. If everyone just keeps complimenting each other how great we are we will continue to lower our standards.
Its still expensive for a plastic figure but given that hes a big and cool centerpiece model you only buy one of and hopefully will get used on the table til and from for a couple of years I think I will get the value back.
IMHO that's the real problem. GW is going towards the direction that those superheroes are needed and armies can't play without them unless being less competitive. Facing guilliman, mortarion, celestine, etc EVERY SINGLE GAME is boring. But if you pay a price like that for a single model, how can you bench it?
Every single model that I buy is part of the army, not the army itself, and I love using all the models in my collection, or at least the majority of them. Facing everytime the same list is boring and kills the game. If you include guilliman in a SM list you're forced to play a gunline with tanks, devastators and flyers, always the same list with few variations. And we're talking about an army with tons of options. Deathguard don't have the SM catalogue and I fear that this big superhero would show up everytime if you face his faction, always joined by the same units which would be the ones with the best synergies with the big guy.
Its still expensive for a plastic figure but given that hes a big and cool centerpiece model you only buy one of and hopefully will get used on the table til and from for a couple of years I think I will get the value back.
IMHO that's the real problem. GW is going towards the direction that those superheroes are needed and armies can't play without them unless being less competitive. Facing guilliman, mortarion, celestine, etc EVERY SINGLE GAME is boring. But if you pay a price like that for a single model, how can you bench it?
Every single model that I buy is part of the army, not the army itself, and I love using all the models in my collection, or at least the majority of them. Facing everytime the same list is boring and kills the game. If you include guilliman in a SM list you're forced to play a gunline with tanks, devastators and flyers, always the same list with few variations. And we're talking about an army with tons of options. Deathguard don't have the SM catalogue and I fear that this big superhero would show up everytime if you face his faction, always joined by the same units which would be the ones with the best synergies with the big guy.
A valid concern, and one that is mostly remedied by the local meta or player base. Tournaments will always be taking the best options available, given that its a more competitive setting. I personally love fielding Guilliman at any time possible in my Primarily Primaris force, but I've had some rather unsubtle comments leveled at me by certain CAAC players in the area, and rather than lose out on having matches, I'll opt to not take him some times.
And the same will be for when I pick up Mortarion. I'll make an effort to bring strong lists without the big super-characters, but I will enjoy the game the post when I can put my big shiny toys on the table. It's definitely a matter of personal opinion when it comes down to the use of special characters or giant super-characters. The "Review Copies" of Morty and the Codex, the opinion thus far seems to be that he's a strong character, fun to use, but he's not overbearing and a must take every game. So, not like Guilliman. Hopefully.
I'm loving the model Mortarion has, and I can't wait to put a non-gakky paint scheme on him. Not that I'm the best painter around, but I hate the cartoonish green chosen for GW paint jobs. I can't wait to put muddy, filthy white colour and pestilent green accents all over it. Like a dirtier, mutated version of 30k Death Guard.
It could, honestly. It's more like the opposite of Win At All Costs, I've seen it thrown around on forums a little bit, and it's spread a bit in my local meta.
Casual At All Costs. Gimping yourself for perfect fluffy lore appropriate lists, to the point that the list is just trash. Mixed with complaining about more competitive/ tournament or stronger lists for not being fluffy.
You just described the favourite customer of any company, the person who lack objective thinking. Mortarion is a universally flawed creation, if you like it I am happy for you, but you can not use "I like it" as leverage when judging something so structurally complex and with so many dormant facets like a manifestation in 3d space.
You are trying way too hard to sound smart.
About the model: I like it and pre-ordered it despite it being a bit too pricey.
Unit1126PLL wrote: CAAC is like WAAC in that it is a term thrown around by people wishing to discredit the other side by namecalling rather than with an actual argument.
I'm curious why so many primarchs have wings. I would absolutely love Morty if he didn't have the swirly stuff and the wings and was able to be modeled standing.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I'm curious why so many primarchs have wings. I would absolutely love Morty if he didn't have the swirly stuff and the wings and was able to be modeled standing.
I would imagine neither Perturabo nor Angron to have wings.
I think all the images of Mortarion have wings once he ascended/ descended to Daemon Prince status. I think Angron is the same I've not seen pics of Perturabo or Lorgar. Not sure on Fulgrim I know he has 2 heads.
I'm hoping Ferrus Manus is just a head with wings if they resurrect him.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I'm curious why so many primarchs have wings. I would absolutely love Morty if he didn't have the swirly stuff and the wings and was able to be modeled standing.
I would imagine neither Perturabo nor Angron to have wings.
We will find out eventually I guess.
Actually Angron has wings
But probably they'll reimagine him like Mortarion, because he is basically a Bloodthirster but with power armour.
FudgeDumper wrote:Unfortunately it will sell because the player base is flawed.
What an interesting way to insult the posters who have shown interest in the model.
It's Fudge. I can only imagine someone's secondary account made only to try and troll/seed dissent (as if that's needed on this forum.) Just look at the rest of his posts. Especially the threads he started.
Yeah the username gives the likely intentions away...
Who keeps deleting my posts, how come the original offender's posts didn't get deleted? This is my first and only account and I am 100% sincere. I always go by this username because I love fudge and I love dumpers. I'm sorry that I came in here and destroyed your little paradise, but one should never fear criticism. If everyone just keeps complimenting each other how great we are we will continue to lower our standards.
I think you need a bit more of a carrot approach rather than the stick.
If you had said that you didn't like the design of Mort and he was far to expensive for your taste. Most other posters would have thought fair enough but to call everyone who buys the model flawed is naive to say the least
I suppose in the grand scheme of things we're all flawed along with our creations.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I'm curious why so many primarchs have wings. I would absolutely love Morty if he didn't have the swirly stuff and the wings and was able to be modeled standing.
I would imagine neither Perturabo nor Angron to have wings.
We will find out eventually I guess.
Actually Angron has wings
But probably they'll reimagine him like Mortarion, because he is basically a Bloodthirster but with power armour.
Angron and Fulgrim, should they arrive, have a better chance of resembling their canon ascended look, simply because they have both reached that stage in the HH series, consequently to depart too far from those would require a certain amount more retconning than Morty or Magnus did.
Rabbitholing here, but I build my lists and armies around narrative, with a few tweaks to make them competitive - for most of 7ed the core of my Word Bearers was a Possessed horde, and now I'm trying to field a model from every deity - and the games I've enjoyed most have been with a guy who fields what seems to be a very finely tuned T'au list that leaves me very little scope for error.
Since my Black Crusade is led by Lorgarians, Morty's not joining me except as a mural on a tank (well... I might get Angron - we do have history with him), but as long as someone's not going to get all Waluigi about a game then I'll happily play their Primarch-led minimaxed tournament list.
FudgeDumper wrote:Unfortunately it will sell because the player base is flawed.
What an interesting way to insult the posters who have shown interest in the model.
It's Fudge. I can only imagine someone's secondary account made only to try and troll/seed dissent (as if that's needed on this forum.) Just look at the rest of his posts. Especially the threads he started.
Yeah the username gives the likely intentions away...
Who keeps deleting my posts, how come the original offender's posts didn't get deleted? This is my first and only account and I am 100% sincere. I always go by this username because I love fudge and I love dumpers. I'm sorry that I came in here and destroyed your little paradise, but one should never fear criticism. If everyone just keeps complimenting each other how great we are we will continue to lower our standards.
There is criticism and then there is stating that you are the speaker of truth and all who fail to see it as devolving into simian beasts.
You don't need to compliment people. You just need to not insult them. And then, while your at it, you can offer criticism. Preferably with some kind of actual point.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I'm curious why so many primarchs have wings. I would absolutely love Morty if he didn't have the swirly stuff and the wings and was able to be modeled standing.
Ascending to daemonhood often brings wings.
As for Morty. Meh. More Meh. More Overpriced Meh. Such an exciting time. I miss the days of 'No Special Characters-hammer'
$140 for one model is a bit high. I wasn't going to buy it regardless, though. I find my games have become more enjoyable if we bring lists in good faith, rather than trying to make a really powerful army.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I'm curious why so many primarchs have wings. I would absolutely love Morty if he didn't have the swirly stuff and the wings and was able to be modeled standing.
Ascending to daemonhood often brings wings.
Indeed. Think about the options that the Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes have and you'll have a pretty good idea of that. As has been said, Portubo is unlikely to have wings, as he'd probably be closer to a Daemon Prince Obliterator.
Speaking of that, though. None of the living Loyal Primarchs will have actual wings ala the Daemon Primarchs. Corax is the closest, but his are mechanical, not organic. If they resurrect Sanguinius, that will be different, but he had them before the Great Crusade started, so long before Magnus or Mortarion would have had it.
SideshowLucifer wrote: I'm curious why so many primarchs have wings. I would absolutely love Morty if he didn't have the swirly stuff and the wings and was able to be modeled standing.
Ascending to daemonhood often brings wings.
Indeed. Think about the options that the Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes have and you'll have a pretty good idea of that. As has been said, Portubo is unlikely to have wings, as he'd probably be closer to a Daemon Prince Obliterator.
Speaking of that, though. None of the living Loyal Primarchs will have actual wings ala the Daemon Primarchs. Corax is the closest, but his are mechanical, not organic. If they resurrect Sanguinius, that will be different, but he had them before the Great Crusade started, so long before Magnus or Mortarion would have had it.
IF they do resurrect Sanguinius it would be symbolically interesting if his new body was missing the wings...
Its still expensive for a plastic figure but given that hes a big and cool centerpiece model you only buy one of and hopefully will get used on the table til and from for a couple of years I think I will get the value back.
IMHO that's the real problem. GW is going towards the direction that those superheroes are needed and armies can't play without them unless being less competitive. Facing guilliman, mortarion, celestine, etc EVERY SINGLE GAME is boring. But if you pay a price like that for a single model, how can you bench it?
Every single model that I buy is part of the army, not the army itself, and I love using all the models in my collection, or at least the majority of them. Facing everytime the same list is boring and kills the game. If you include guilliman in a SM list you're forced to play a gunline with tanks, devastators and flyers, always the same list with few variations. And we're talking about an army with tons of options. Deathguard don't have the SM catalogue and I fear that this big superhero would show up everytime if you face his faction, always joined by the same units which would be the ones with the best synergies with the big guy.
Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.
I think that the superhero model is where we are going with competitive 40k, for better or worse. But it's actually more than that. They been introducing big powerful models for that past few years, all of which have been lamented by the playerbase at one time or another - read Wraithknights, Stormsurges, etc. So it's not all that new.
I have a Stormsurge and an Y'Vahra from Forgeworld. I have always tailored my casual games to my opponent's availability of choices, for their army, to avoid any issues. I think that should be common sense if you have have a Gulliman, Magnus, or Mortarion, and your opponent is doesn't have anything to deal with them. To keep it simple, I just ask if they are running any Lords of War. If yes, my big cool, powerful model is coming in. If not, then my Lord of War stay sidelined. With some common sense, something like Mortarion should never be a problem to play.
Characters and Lords of War are turning out to be the most point efficient units in the game now, which makes not taking them, not a real choice in competitive play. If there are choices of taking units that are close in efficiency, then you'd see more of a variety of units fielded. But in this edition, characters/lords of war are just nuts (especially Imperium/Chaos) so we will continue seeing them in droves until they are given more appropriate point costs for what they do.
Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.
This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.
Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.
@Azreal13 - could you put the giant image behind spoiler tags, please? It kinda breaks the page
Automatically Appended Next Post: Scaled Mortarion and the PP Archangel to be in proportion.
So these two sets are at the same price point, right?
The resin & metal model that'll probably take some serious work to build and a young hobbyist will need supervision, and the plastic model that'll be way more user-friendly?
The bat wings with general cuts and the veined insect wings with organic holes?
The naked lizard - that does have interesting anatomy - and the intricately armoured warrior with dynamic chains?
One's bigger, ones got finer detail. One can have a preference for the visua style of either. But value? Bearing in mind how expensive plastic mounds are, and the low price of boxed games for what you get that you know is going to be made up with higher prices elsewhere, like an Xbox sold at a loss to get software sales?
I've said it before when I valued up my friend's late father in law's 56mm collection - toy soldiers is an expensive hobby, and for the level of detail, user friendliness, and creative use of elements to support dynamic poses, I don't feel any more ripped off by GW now than I did when I had the option of ten monopose tactical marines for £10 or £5 for three wonky lead bodies with bolters resting on open palms. Since then, a chocolate bar's gone from 25p to most of a pound - I'll bring an apple for lunch and keep the toys fund building up for my Kytan so I can bring a LOW to the next Black Crusade.
Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.
This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.
Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.
Normalized to the pricing? As if I should be getting large high quality models for much cheaper somewhere else? If not, what are you comparing their prices to? "Bullish" compared to what? The Privateer Press model you posted? I can only assume you were joking about about posting and comparing that Privateer Press model -because those models suck- I have a lot of them - yes they do - but seriously, please share on reasonably priced large models that are actually comparable as I would hate for GW to continue to rake me over the coals with their outlandish pricing just because I love the way their models look.
I like that pp model. On display i think it looks nicer. Morty has some fine details. Lotsa stuff to paint by the numbers. The pp model is more classic bone dragon. I like metal too. Especially big metal... Frankly I can't see explaining to my wife how I spent so much and the the two weeks to paint either so I will be buying neither but if I had to choose... Wouldn't be an easy decision.
They are both roughly the same size in proportion. GW Morty stands taller because he is in the air. Morty unofficial is easy enough to convert into a flying pose if you so choose.
Do you like the official weapons/wings more? I bet with the 93.00 you are saving you can buy the bits off ebay and still not be paying close to the official price. You could get the unofficial model and have a massive budget for bits to customize and kit bash with. I am sure many will be buying official Morty. Good on you.
For half the cost you could be building your own bad ass morty and at about 1/3rd the cost just have one thats good enough and by that I mean pretty great.
If I had to choose between the three of them I would go with the exclusive model.
I like it more than the new gw model ... And have no display case worthy of that pp model.
Plus I am relatively poor.
Gw draws more criticism for sharp pricing then it does white knights. Most people however seem to have accepted the pricing as high (like me, I'll freely admit) or moved to cheaper alternatives be they second hand or stuff like wargameexclusive.
lindsay40k wrote: @Azreal13 - could you put the giant image behind spoiler tags, please? It kinda breaks the page
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Scaled Mortarion and the PP Archangel to be in proportion.
So these two sets are at the same price point, right?
The resin & metal model that'll probably take some serious work to build and a young hobbyist will need supervision, and the plastic model that'll be way more user-friendly?
The bat wings with general cuts and the veined insect wings with organic holes?
The naked lizard - that does have interesting anatomy - and the intricately armoured warrior with dynamic chains?
One's bigger, ones got finer detail. One can have a preference for the visua style of either. But value? Bearing in mind how expensive plastic mounds are, and the low price of boxed games for what you get that you know is going to be made up with higher prices elsewhere, like an Xbox sold at a loss to get software sales?
I've said it before when I valued up my friend's late father in law's 56mm collection - toy soldiers is an expensive hobby, and for the level of detail, user friendliness, and creative use of elements to support dynamic poses, I don't feel any more ripped off by GW now than I did when I had the option of ten monopose tactical marines for £10 or £5 for three wonky lead bodies with bolters resting on open palms. Since then, a chocolate bar's gone from 25p to most of a pound - I'll bring an apple for lunch and keep the toys fund building up for my Kytan so I can bring a LOW to the next Black Crusade.
Yeah..
You've either scaled the two images with a 32mm base Death Guard and a 50mm base Angelius.... So an error of approaching an extra 50% difference in size from your comparison, or a 100mm GW and 120mm PP base, so 20% at best.
Value is subjective, there's zero point in discussing it because everyone has their own line in the sand, but there are facts that can be compared, and a company that also attracts criticism for its pricing turning out a substantially larger model made from a more expensive per unit production method for less than GW are facts that can be objectively compared.
I'll also point out that GWchoosing to make a model in plastic such that it dictates a certain price point means absolutely jack gak to me as a purchaser if that's price point is one I deem excessive. I'm familiar with the costing and production comparisons between the two methods, but at the end of the day if GW make the decision to use the production method that results in the increased RRP and that takes it beyond my desire/ability to pay, that's NMFP. I don't accept that I've got to pay extra elsewhere because some other product is cheaper (and, incidentally, still sold a total a profit by their own financials.)
As for "kids can assemble Mortarion more easily?" Like feth is a kid getting an £85 plastic kit if they're not a good enough modeller to tackle the Archangel unsupervised.
Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.
This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.
Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.
Normalized to the pricing? As if I should be getting large high quality models for much cheaper somewhere else? If not, what are you comparing their prices to? "Bullish" compared to what? The Privateer Press model you posted?
Their own models. As has already been pointed out, Thanquol and Boneripper is a plastic model of an equivalent number of sprues and size that's is sold for just a tad over half the RRP of the Daemon Primarchs and a good chunk less than the plastic GDs.
I can only assume you were joking about about posting and comparing that Privateer Press model -because those models suck- I have a lot of them - yes they do - but seriously, please share on reasonably priced large models that are actually comparable as I would hate for GW to continue to rake me over the coals with their outlandish pricing just because I love the way their models look.
Subjective opinion is subjective, I happen to love the Archangel, just like I happen to love and dislike some other PP and GW models. I have models from all sorts of companies the drawback being that when GW drop a "premium even for them" model one tends to see it as more egregious because of all the other wonderful things that other people are making.
But that's the best part of collecting minis right now, there's loads of choice, and we're all free to exercise that choice. This isn't the 90s and we aren't talking consoles, or, for people more my era, Amiga vs ST or C64 vs Speccie.
lindsay40k wrote: @Azreal13 - could you put the giant image behind spoiler tags, please? It kinda breaks the page
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Scaled Mortarion and the PP Archangel to be in proportion.
So these two sets are at the same price point, right?
The resin & metal model that'll probably take some serious work to build and a young hobbyist will need supervision, and the plastic model that'll be way more user-friendly?
The bat wings with general cuts and the veined insect wings with organic holes?
The naked lizard - that does have interesting anatomy - and the intricately armoured warrior with dynamic chains?
One's bigger, ones got finer detail. One can have a preference for the visua style of either. But value? Bearing in mind how expensive plastic mounds are, and the low price of boxed games for what you get that you know is going to be made up with higher prices elsewhere, like an Xbox sold at a loss to get software sales?
I've said it before when I valued up my friend's late father in law's 56mm collection - toy soldiers is an expensive hobby, and for the level of detail, user friendliness, and creative use of elements to support dynamic poses, I don't feel any more ripped off by GW now than I did when I had the option of ten monopose tactical marines for £10 or £5 for three wonky lead bodies with bolters resting on open palms. Since then, a chocolate bar's gone from 25p to most of a pound - I'll bring an apple for lunch and keep the toys fund building up for my Kytan so I can bring a LOW to the next Black Crusade.
Yeah..
You've either scaled the two images with a 32mm base Death Guard and a 50mm base Angelius.... So an error of approaching an extra 50% difference in size from your comparison, or a 100mm GW and 120mm PP base, so 20% at best.
Value is subjective, there's zero point in discussing it because everyone has their own line in the sand, but there are facts that can be compared, and a company that also attracts criticism for its pricing turning out a substantially larger model made from a more expensive per unit production method for less than GW are facts that can be objectively compared.
I'll also point out that GWchoosing to make a model in plastic such that it dictates a certain price point means absolutely jack gak to me as a purchaser if that's price point is one I deem excessive. I'm familiar with the costing and production comparisons between the two methods, but at the end of the day if GW make the decision to use the production method that results in the increased RRP and that takes it beyond my desire/ability to pay, that's NMFP. I don't accept that I've got to pay extra elsewhere because some other product is cheaper (and, incidentally, still sold a total a profit by their own financials.)
As for "kids can assemble Mortarion more easily?" Like feth is a kid getting an £85 plastic kit if they're not a good enough modeller to tackle the Archangel unsupervised.
Love the model and will buy, however, model wise, it does appears too expensive for what it is. The price should be closer to that of a Lord of Change or Bloodthirster.
This is a perfect illustration of the genius (such as it is) of GW's approach to pricing. A percentage of the customer base has become so normalized to the pricing that an already pretty substantially bullishly priced kit is used as frame of reference for what a large model should cost.
Just to illustrate, PP, a company who already attract a decent quantity of often justified criticism for sharp pricing, sell this model for $5 less than Mortarion.
Normalized to the pricing? As if I should be getting large high quality models for much cheaper somewhere else? If not, what are you comparing their prices to? "Bullish" compared to what? The Privateer Press model you posted?
Their own models. As has already been pointed out, Thanquol and Boneripper is a plastic model of an equivalent number of sprues and size that's is sold for just a tad over half the RRP of the Daemon Primarchs and a good chunk less than the plastic GDs.
Your comparable, if you are trying to use GW's own models, is off. Thanquol and Boneripper is a little larger than a helbrute which, although bulky, is considerably smaller than Mortarion or Bloodthirster/LoC, for that matter. See below -
That conversion uses Tau plasma guns, which are fairly small but knowing the size of the plasma gun, that base that the Thanquol is on is around a 60mm. I just got Mortarion today and judged the Tau plasma gun ( I have lots of Tau) to the new model - and the Tau plasma gun is around the same length as Morty's Lantern pistol. When you compare this Thanquol conversion and see the plasma guns (which are actually cut down to 3/4 length), and then know those plasma guns are around the same length as the Lantern from the Mortarion Model, it's obvious that Mortarion is much larger, meaning a Bloodthirster and /LoC are also larger than Thanqoul.
So why again are you trying to compare smaller models to larger ones when trying to say that the larger ones are too expensive? And it's not just about size either, as a fair argument can be made that the sculpts and intricacy of Mortarion/Bloodthirster/LoCs are substantially better than that of Thanquol. How important is sprue count when built models coming out of the same size sprues can vary in detail, size, and intricacy? I think we can agree that the expense to develop and market the Thanqoul model was probably less than the expense to develop and market Mortarion.
Unfortunately it's difficult to draw comparisons between models currently produced without side by side comparison shots. The scheme which Games Workshop use simply doesn't do Mortarion justice, the model strikes a balance with masses of detail without suffering overcrowding. No easy task.
Pricing is relative. It's clear that in the UK the price is somewhat more palatable to most than in other countries but (by the sounds of it) this isn't an exclusive issue with Mortarion but more GW in general. When it comes to pricing in relation to the actual contents of the box, any observations here are speculative at best without industry knowledge.
I've seen alternative production methods mentioned and while there are some absolutely incredible models/miniatures out there manufactured with resin and similar materials, this is simply not a strong point of GW based off their previous endeavours with resin (finecast). While Forge World specialise in resin this comes at a premium and the quality control is widely reported to vary dramatically.
So why again are you trying to compare smaller models to larger ones when trying to say that the larger ones are too expensive? And it's not just about size either, as a fair argument can be made that the sculpts and intricacy of Mortarion/Bloodthirster/LoCs are substantially better than that of Thanquol. How important is sprue count when built models coming out of the same size sprues can vary in detail, size, and intricacy? I think we can agree that the expense to develop and market the Thanqoul model was probably less than the expense to develop and market Mortarion.
The sprue count is everything, each sprue represents a die being designed and machined and is the biggest cost of plastic kit production. The detail, amount of plastic etc is all largely incidental, the cost of producing a sprue that consists of just the frame and one laden with parts isn't miles apart (there'd be increased time on the milling machine when creating the die, and a small increased raw material cost, that's about it.) Plastic costs very little, so including more plastic makes very little difference to the production costs and is only a tiny fraction of the RRP.
There's also extra time needed to design a more complex kit, but as GW design staff are all on salary, there's no actual material increase in money spent, only opportunity cost in the sense they can only work on one thing at a time.
So no, there was likely very little difference in £££ cost between making Thanquol and Boneripper or Mortarion, and the time spent, while a quantifiable "cost" won't have been hugely detrimental to GW's output (the real cost of time spent) as their studio is pretty well staffed.
But yes, I'll happily concede that Mortarion was the more expensive model to make, just by far, far less than the difference in RRP can justify.
That is a tiiiiiiiiny morty wierdjunson. You might want to get a 100mm base and build up a giant tower of skulls or something for him to stand on to get even close to the footprint of Morty.
The price is what they think the market will bear. That's it. Rationalising it by materials cost or which is more expensive to design is to miss the point. They pick a price point which will maximise the profit without reducing sales too much, like every other business on Earth.
wierdjunson wrote: I'm just planning to use this guy as Morty when i feel like i need him.
As the base is smaller than the official model, and as measurements are from/to the base, then yeah, you might want to put that on a larger base.
Otherwise, sure, I think that model is cool!
Costs the same as a Knight, looks cooler than a Knight.
I see no issue with this model. I don't care about the volume of plastic that went into making the model, it's a superheavy for my Nurgle stuff, and costs the same as a close sized superheavy for a different army. Also $10 off magnus price, and I think mortarion's pose and detail migh higher quality, making it worth it.
Knight titans used to be the go-to gotta have it in my army model. Now it is primarchs.
I'll be picking up the tallyman, marines and termies. Gonna gradually pick up the other stuff once I paint through the 
