Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/20 18:57:05


Post by: Azreal13


No thread for this that shows up on a search, so I figured with the first full trailer landing, now's the time.




Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/20 19:06:29


Post by: Wyrmalla


Another run at that IP I guess.

Not my thing if the trailer's anything to go by, the music's off putting. Though The Punisher never really appealed to me as a series. I do remember his cameo in that old Spider-Man game.




Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/20 19:13:40


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


Had to watch it twice, missed half of it the first time because I was head banging!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/20 19:18:42


Post by: Kanluwen


 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Had to watch it twice, missed half of it the first time because I was head banging!

Hell yeah!

I'm excited for this. It might be the first Marvel Netflix show I binge.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/20 19:49:13


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


I've been looking forward to this since they announced he was getting a stand alone. The Punisher parts of DD season 2 were the best.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/20 20:28:41


Post by: Dreadwinter


Well, that is how a Punisher trailer should be.....


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/21 00:12:49


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Dakka dakka dakka dakka dakka!

*deep breath*

Dakka dakka dakka dakka dakka!


Looks cool. Best parts of DD Season 2 were Punisher related, so this is good.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/21 02:14:54


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


Just finished Defenders after slogging through The Whiniest Billionaire in the World (aka Iron Fist).

I'm ready for Punisher!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/21 17:01:03


Post by: NenkotaMoon


I thought it is going to be damn fantastic. I hope they keep it a more metal soundtrack. Cage had traditional hip hop and rap beats that made it for me watching it. Metal is Punisher, especially if they make it Gerard style.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/22 20:03:52


Post by: Trondheim


Oh by Odins beard! I think I may need to lay down, label me hyped! Only thing that could have made that trailer was if they used Amon Amarth or Venom


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/22 20:05:23


Post by: Ratius


Aye good trailer with One playing away!
Wasnt a big fan of the Punisher movies but this could be darn good.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/22 20:48:15


Post by: Kap'n Krump


I still feel like the punisher could easily kill both the hand AND the defenders.

And I really liked how they spliced in gun cocking and gunfire with the drumbeat of the song.

I can't wait!

Though.......it does seem like he's mostly killing FBI/CIA guys? I'm not such a big fan of that.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/22 21:34:12


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I still feel like the punisher could easily kill both the hand AND the defenders.

And I really liked how they spliced in gun cocking and gunfire with the drumbeat of the song.

I can't wait!

Though.......it does seem like he's mostly killing FBI/CIA guys? I'm not such a big fan of that.


It seems more like they are trying to kill him.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/22 21:34:36


Post by: Hulksmash


Corrupt CIA/FBI or something. Either way it looks amazing. By far my favorite netflix "hero" so far.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/23 02:38:31


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Hulksmash wrote:
Corrupt CIA/FBI or something. Either way it looks amazing. By far my favorite netflix "hero" so far.


Yeah, I got a very Jason Borne vibe from where they are going with it. Except the Punisher really* wants to kill them.

*Text changed for emphasis


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/24 05:02:45


Post by: Spinner


 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I still feel like the punisher could easily kill both the hand AND the defenders.


Frank's superpower is lots of bullets. Putting him up against Luke Cage seems like it'd be like a deathmatch between Superman and Krypt-O-Nite, the magically animated chunk of radioactive rock.

Definitely looking forward to this, though! Jon Bernthal's a perfect Punisher and it's something to tide me over until more Jones!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/24 05:13:59


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Spinner wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I still feel like the punisher could easily kill both the hand AND the defenders.


Frank's superpower is lots of bullets. Putting him up against Luke Cage seems like it'd be like a deathmatch between Superman and Krypt-O-Nite, the magically animated chunk of radioactive rock.

Definitely looking forward to this, though! Jon Bernthal's a perfect Punisher and it's something to tide me over until more Jones!


I disagree. He uses a lot of bullets, but he is supposed to be a tactical genius. It is very rare that anybody gets the drop on him and he almost always has the upper hand. He strikes out of nowhere and he tries to know as much about the person he is killing as he can. He doesn't like to halfass a job. If he is going to kill somebody, he is going to do it right.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/24 09:58:35


Post by: KingCracker


 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I've been looking forward to this since they announced he was getting a stand alone. The Punisher parts of DD season 2 were the best.



You and me both buddy! I was blown away at his Punisher and wanted more. Thats how the Punisher should be, ice cold, totally off his rocker but yet totally understandable as well. And brutally violent


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Spinner wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I still feel like the punisher could easily kill both the hand AND the defenders.


Frank's superpower is lots of bullets. Putting him up against Luke Cage seems like it'd be like a deathmatch between Superman and Krypt-O-Nite, the magically animated chunk of radioactive rock.

Definitely looking forward to this, though! Jon Bernthal's a perfect Punisher and it's something to tide me over until more Jones!


I disagree. He uses a lot of bullets, but he is supposed to be a tactical genius. It is very rare that anybody gets the drop on him and he almost always has the upper hand. He strikes out of nowhere and he tries to know as much about the person he is killing as he can. He doesn't like to halfass a job. If he is going to kill somebody, he is going to do it right.



I agree. I personally think he would wipe the floor with the Defenders. He killed all of Marvel that one time so really....


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/25 00:53:00


Post by: Alpharius


This is starting to smell a little too fan-boi-ish in here!

The fact that the Punisher exists/continues to operate at all in the Marvel Universe is probably one of the biggest unexplained mysteries/biggest goof ups going...!

Having said that, I'm sure this series will be excellent - expecially in the more 'grounded' setting that Marvel Netflix seems to exist in.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/25 00:56:50


Post by: Spinner


This version of Frank had trouble with one Defender, and his big contribution to the fight at the end was, what, shooting three ninjas?



Which isn't to say I'm not ridiculously excited for the series. The more Marvel Netflix, the better, I say!...even more Iron Fist...


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/25 01:54:02


Post by: Alpharius


 Spinner wrote:
This version of Frank had trouble with one Defender, and his big contribution to the fight at the end was, what, shooting three ninjas?



Which isn't to say I'm not ridiculously excited for the series. The more Marvel Netflix, the better, I say!...even more Iron Fist...


On that we can all agree!

(OK, probably not, but still!)


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/26 22:38:32


Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl


 Spinner wrote:
Frank's superpower is lots of bullets.

Lots of military weapons. That include stuff like C4 and rocket launcher when the plots require it. Like when he blew away most of Wolverines body.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/27 04:37:45


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Alpharius wrote:
This is starting to smell a little too fan-boi-ish in here!


I get where you are coming from here. I think I probably would fanboy on him pretty hard if I had access to his comics. Most of what I know is from Wikipedia though.

I am really interested in the Netflix show though. I thought Berenthal did a phenomenal job portraying him in DD S2. I didn't really like Berenthal in TWD at all, but he killed it as the Punisher. Really excited about it. Seems like Netflix has the right idea for how to portray him. I would like to see him get out of New York though. Maybe travel to some other cities to cause mayhem. They could introduce new street level heroes through run-ins with The Punisher.

I am just really excited about what could be here.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/27 06:21:52


Post by: sebster


I'm a little on the fence about this. The guy playing the Punisher did a great job in DD, and I was really enjoying that series and his subplot, but it really dragged by the end, when it got in to the part about the government conspiracy. I'm not sure if that's because there was something inherently uninteresting about Castly switching his murder from generic street scum to generic corrupt government dudes, or if its because that plot didn't do well set against the more fantastical ninja element of DD.

There's also an issue that the Punisher like a lot of anti-heroes tends to do better as a character in someone else's story.

But Marvel has done a good job with its Netflix shows so far, so I guess they should get the benefit of the doubt.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/28 03:11:56


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 sebster wrote:
But Marvel has done a good job with its Netflix shows so far...


Have they though?

DDS1 and JJ were basically fine, with only a few pacing issues. DDS2 went off the rails by the end, even if it started stronger than any of the other shows did. Luke Cage committed the cardinal sin of being boring, no matter how polished it was. Iron Fist was awful, if entertaining in parts. And Defenders was... fine. I liked it. Lots of people did. Lots of people didn't. Lots of people thought it lost the plot.

Really I think Netflix are at 50/50 with their shows.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/28 03:22:29


Post by: sebster


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Have they though?

DDS1 and JJ were basically fine, with only a few pacing issues. DDS2 went off the rails by the end, even if it started stronger than any of the other shows did. Luke Cage committed the cardinal sin of being boring, no matter how polished it was. Iron Fist was awful, if entertaining in parts. And Defenders was... fine. I liked it. Lots of people did. Lots of people didn't. Lots of people thought it lost the plot.

Really I think Netflix are at 50/50 with their shows.


I agree about DD, good show with pacing issues. JJ I thought was pretty good. On Cage I think our views are similar, I'd say it was a slick productiont that tended to be a bit, you appear to say the same with the opposite emphasis. I agree Iron Fist was awful, I haven't finished it. I haven't watched Defenders yet.

It may be that we see the same shows, score them the same, but a grading on a different curve. I see these shows as something to watch when I've got a spare hour. They work well on that level.

If you expect something more than that, I can see how you'd score them much more harshly.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/28 03:28:28


Post by: LordofHats


I think Dare Devil is actually most entertaining the second time though when you start noticing that the villains would get away with a lot if they didn't do stupidly unnecessary things.

I never finished Jessica Jones myself. Luke Cage and Iron Fist I think both suffered from arc drag. There was lots of cool and interesting stuff, but Luke Cage I think wasted a more interesting villain too early in its run and replaced him with a far more mediocre one (one with a way too cheesy and coincidental connection to the main character imo). Iron Fist just dragged for the first half, maybe 2/3s of its season, and then quit right as things started to get interesting.

Look forward to the Punisher. I think the guy they picked to play Castle puts on the perfect air of unhinged and scary as feth


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/28 13:24:19


Post by: H.B.M.C.


All of them suffer from arc drag. Each series is 3 episodes too long (never more exemplified than in DDS2). Hell they probably could'a done Defenders in 6 episodes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to Punisher, but I think it's another 13 episode series, so we're likely going to see the same issue with it dragging either in the middle (like JJ did), or just flat out going haywire by the end (like DDS2).

On the bright side folks, at least it's not Inhumans.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/28 15:01:30


Post by: Easy E


Did I spy Karen Page in that trailer?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/28 18:04:22


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


 Easy E wrote:
Did I spy Karen Page in that trailer?


Yes, she's going to be one of Frank's supporting characters it seems.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/29 03:14:20


Post by: H.B.M.C.


A voice of reason no doubt.

(She murdered Wesley in DDS1 and no one ever called her on it)

Oh right...


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/29 04:20:15


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


Alas poor Wesley, you had to die so Karen could have like 2 minutes of character development, which she instantly forgets, and so Fisk can go more unhinged?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/29 10:48:15


Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy


Yeah that was bizarre and seemed out of character for someone as careful as Wesley. Although I can't remember if anyone found out what happened to call her out on it.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/29 11:54:45


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


Can we really call that "murder"?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/29 17:23:25


Post by: whembly


 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Can we really call that "murder"?

Remind me what happened again?

...vaguely I thought it was more self-defense...


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/29 19:48:11


Post by: Easy E


They have continually be hinting at some 'dark Secret" karen has in her past via dialogue. Ben the Reporter mentions it, Karen references it as why she came to New York, and Karen even says to Wesley something about ....

"What makes you think I haven't killed/shot anyone before?"

By the way, Karen didn't just forget about it. She still has issues with it and the fact that Fisk will find out and come after her. She just didn't get to talk about it too much in the second half of DD Season 2, or Defenders but it is still there.

You could argue that the whole reason she is such a "crusader" for Frank and the Irish Thug is BECAUSE she is feeling guilty about her past actions with Wesley and her "Dark Secret!".


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/09/29 22:59:24


Post by: Ahtman


Karen is the real villain of the Netflix Marvel series and maybe someone, in this case Punisher, figured that out and will save the audience from her horribleness.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/01 19:18:27


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 whembly wrote:
 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Can we really call that "murder"?

Remind me what happened again?

...vaguely I thought it was more self-defense...


Drugged and kidnapped her and then threatened to kill everyone she cares about. He puts a loaded gun on the table to intimidate her, which Karen grabs when he's distracted by his phone ringing.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/01 20:06:52


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


Not guilty, by reason of totally asking for it.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/01 21:10:00


Post by: Deadnight


Oh hell yes.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 02:14:10


Post by: Dreadwinter




How do you even question whether that was self defense or not? The enforcer of a crime syndicate just threatened to kill you and everybody you love after kidnapping you.

Self defense. Without a doubt.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 02:21:52


Post by: Alpharius


I...wasn't?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 03:27:58


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Alpharius wrote:
I...wasn't?


Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. I was questioning the article. It did seem that I was though.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 03:34:18


Post by: Ahtman


 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I...wasn't?


Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. I was questioning the article. It did seem that I was though.


Possibly but we still shouldn't forget the awfulness of Alpharius.

I just wanted to say "awfulness of Alpharius".


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 05:19:43


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Ahtman wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I...wasn't?


Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. I was questioning the article. It did seem that I was though.


Possibly but we still shouldn't forget the awfulness of Alpharius.

I just wanted to say "awfulness of Alpharius".


Are we sure this is Alpharius?

Probably his brother. Just sayin'.....


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 12:43:53


Post by: Turnip Jedi


SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Yeah that was bizarre and seemed out of character for someone as careful as Wesley. Although I can't remember if anyone found out what happened to call her out on it.


but why be careful when you've got what appears to be a helpless, easily intimidated victim in front of you, not his fault he didn't know she's a top-notch murderess from (insert shady Marvel black ops set-up here)


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 13:31:01


Post by: Alpharius


I think Karen's problems are more related to:

1) Dealing with killing someone - provided that her "Dark Secret"™®© isn't already something like that?

2) If Fisk finds out...


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 13:53:16


Post by: Bran Dawri


Karen's the bitchy lawyer, right?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 14:58:27


Post by: Alpharius


Technically, she's not a lawyer, but yes, I suppose you have the right character in mind?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 15:32:18


Post by: Ahtman


She also keeps trying to Daredevil from being Daredevil because she is selfish and terrible. Don't forget she tricked Ben Urich into seeing Kingpin's mother which directly led to Kingpin killing Urich so Karen could take his office and job.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 17:00:45


Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy


 Turnip Jedi wrote:

but why be careful when you've got what appears to be a helpless, easily intimidated victim in front of you, not his fault he didn't know she's a top-notch murderess from (insert shady Marvel black ops set-up here)

Because he was a careful person and you never know how somebody will react when you put them in that sort of situation. Just because someone is easily intimidated doesn't mean they'd be unwilling to kill in those circumstances. It was ridiculous and forced.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 17:25:30


Post by: Grimskul


Count me aboard the Karen hate train. I already disliked her from the beginning from her abrasive and somewhat needy personality. Killing Wesley (and getting away with it!) was the final nail in the coffin for my low opinion of her. She acts so self-righteous despite her status as a murderer. Her inclusion in the Defenders (I know why, but I basically skipped it whenever she came in) IMO was basically unnecessary.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 17:52:37


Post by: Alpharius


You do realize that Wesley was a horrible person, who regularly did horrible things, right?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 18:01:24


Post by: Turnip Jedi


Isn't self righteous murder the new hotness amongst the heroes community these days ?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 18:56:06


Post by: Spinner


I wouldn't even call it self-righteous; it's not like she's out there bragging about it, and she seemed pretty freaked out after the fact.

Wesley talked about how he was going to have everyone she cared about murdered, then left a loaded gun on the table. Karen's the Queen of Bad Decisions, and thus has far more experience with their consequences than Wesley; he didn't stand a chance


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 18:57:05


Post by: Alpharius


I think - in that setting - Karen's actions were...justified?

More or less.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 19:11:19


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Grimskul wrote:
Count me aboard the Karen hate train. I already disliked her from the beginning from her abrasive and somewhat needy personality. Killing Wesley (and getting away with it!) was the final nail in the coffin for my low opinion of her. She acts so self-righteous despite her status as a murderer. Her inclusion in the Defenders (I know why, but I basically skipped it whenever she came in) IMO was basically unnecessary.


Listen, I will be the first person to step in and say that there was a bad shoot or there was a way out of this without violence. But when a known murderer kidnaps you, then explains how he is going to kill everybody you know and love. You can't take that chance.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/02 21:07:33


Post by: Ahtman


People seem stuck on her shooting Wesley and then lying about it and obfuscating the truth when she did other terrible things. One act isn't what makes her terrible person; there is so much more to her that makes her offensive.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/04 13:49:31


Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy


 Alpharius wrote:
I think - in that setting - Karen's actions were...justified?

More or less.

Oh absolutely.

I dislike the scene because Wesley was a moron and died and I liked him (as a villain not in some he's-not-that-bad-really way).

Karen does do other morally dubious things though and in general I found her character slightly grating. She wasn't anywhere near as bad as Elektra though.


Back to the Punisher, I'm not too keen on him hosing down US soldiers but I guess they're going to be super-evil ones? I remember a Punisher comic in which shady government officials sent special forces (I think) after the Punisher and he couldn't kill them due to his code. He'd break arms but would never actually kill (or permanently cripple) them. It was pretty interesting and exposed a vulnerability for him.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/04 14:12:09


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


From what I understand from the Trailers, the Punisher is a former member of some CIA Black Ops type unit. Something went bad, maybe the unit is corrupt, and an assassination attempt was made against his life. Now the Punisher is out for revenge against the people who betrayed them.

So yeah, the soldiers are probably villains of some sort.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/04 15:31:25


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I think - in that setting - Karen's actions were...justified?

More or less.

Oh absolutely.

I dislike the scene because Wesley was a moron and died and I liked him (as a villain not in some he's-not-that-bad-really way).

Karen does do other morally dubious things though and in general I found her character slightly grating. She wasn't anywhere near as bad as Elektra though.


Back to the Punisher, I'm not too keen on him hosing down US soldiers but I guess they're going to be super-evil ones? I remember a Punisher comic in which shady government officials sent special forces (I think) after the Punisher and he couldn't kill them due to his code. He'd break arms but would never actually kill (or permanently cripple) them. It was pretty interesting and exposed a vulnerability for him.


They are likely corrupt, like his former CO was in Season 2 of DD or they are members of the PMC this universe's Jigsaw is supposed to run.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/05 00:14:05


Post by: Yodhrin


They have to be corrupt/bad apples, that's a condition of featuring any kind of US serviceperson as a villain if your show wants to rent out the military vehicles and get the military technical advisors.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/05 02:17:36


Post by: H.B.M.C.


And Marvel pulled the Punisher panel from NYCC.

It sucks, as I really wanted to find out more about the show, but I totally get why they did it.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/05 19:01:27


Post by: Alpharius


Is this a Las Vegas fallout thing?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 01:30:36


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaand now they're talking about delaying the show completely.

Scrapping the panel, sure, that makes sense. But not airing the show when they said they would? Come on...


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 02:53:25


Post by: Dreadwinter


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand now they're talking about delaying the show completely.

Scrapping the panel, sure, that makes sense. But not airing the show when they said they would? Come on...


Wait, what? Why?

I need links! Sources I tell you!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 04:17:04


Post by: Ahtman


 Alpharius wrote:
Is this a Las Vegas fallout thing?


Yes


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 04:19:31


Post by: LordofHats


 Ahtman wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Is this a Las Vegas fallout thing?


Yes


Damn violent video games ruin everything.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 11:49:56


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 LordofHats wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Is this a Las Vegas fallout thing?


Yes


Damn violent video games ruin everything.


War...War never changes.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 13:20:56


Post by: Easy E


Back to Karen.... yeah.... her inclusion in the Defenders was necessary as a foil against Matt Murdock's intentions and to force him to make a *dramtic* decision about what he wanted from life.

Karen is interesting as she is a totally flawed person who tries to make up for it, but is really really bad at it.

I was upset when Leeland Owlsley left the show. That was a fun villain.

OT- Was Punisher and that Black Ops outfit from Jessica Jones omehow connected? You know, the one hyping up the soldiers?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 17:27:32


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


If we don't have the Punisher then the crazy old millionaires win!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 17:53:34


Post by: Ahtman


 Easy E wrote:
Karen is interesting


I've seen people say flat out lies on the internet that were less wrong than this statement. Only the greatest monster in history would type such a deceitful thing just to rile up the good people in this thread.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 22:20:36


Post by: Easy E


 Ahtman wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Karen is interesting


I've seen people say flat out lies on the internet that were less wrong than this statement. Only the greatest monster in history would type such a deceitful thing just to rile up the good people in this thread.


You have unmasked me. I am in fact, history's greatest monster.

Spoiler:


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/06 23:24:38


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


THANKS, EASY E!!!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/09 05:38:53


Post by: Laemos


This sucks.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/09 17:09:37


Post by: Easy E


I can see why people maybe a bit squeamish about putting this out right now.

He worked as an anti-hero and a foil of DD in Season 2; but they will hve to work really hard to get past the nihilism in his own series. That seems like it could be a heavy lift.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/19 16:35:38


Post by: Azreal13





Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/19 16:58:15


Post by: BrookM


17th of November, looks like it's not delayed as mentioned earlier.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/19 17:15:59


Post by: Ratius


I only ever lightlly dabbled in the Punisher. In the originals his family was killed by gangs/cartels?

This seems to have a more him VS the government/shadow OPs angle. Correct?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/19 18:37:50


Post by: Alpharius


Yes to both questions!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/21 05:12:39


Post by: NenkotaMoon


Feels boring, would've liked a more Mitch Gerard style Punisher story.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/21 06:15:29


Post by: Ouze


 Ratius wrote:
I only ever lightlly dabbled in the Punisher. In the originals his family was killed by gangs/cartels?

This seems to have a more him VS the government/shadow OPs angle. Correct?


As Alpharius said, yes, but they were already going to have to make at least some changes. In the comics he was a Vietnam veteran which would make him around 70.



Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/21 14:42:21


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 BrookM wrote:
17th of November, looks like it's not delayed as mentioned earlier.
Given the rumour was it was going to dropped at Comic-Con NY, as a big surprise at the panel, yeah, it's delayed.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/24 17:01:58


Post by: Easy E


One is a great soundtrack for the Punisher. It was used well in both Trailers, and I am interested to see the soundtrack for the show.

Luke Cage and Jessica Jones also made good use of the soundtrack IIRC.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/27 17:06:00


Post by: NenkotaMoon


I think he is still a vietnam vet if I am not mistaken. New book called platoon is just his first tour as LT. in nam. Of course still love the Gerard Punisher.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/27 17:14:06


Post by: Alpharius


If it is set 'today' (and it is) then there's no way this version of the Punisher is a veteran of the Vietnam War.

Gulf War, Afghanistan, some sort of Black Ops, etc. sure!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/27 20:12:28


Post by: KamikazeCanuck


He's an Afghan vet iirc.

Amazing Trailer!


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/10/27 21:41:32


Post by: Easy E


The talk a lot about his service in DD Season 2, especially at the trial. However, I do not recall if it was Iraq or Afghanistan.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/17 21:21:00


Post by: Hulksmash


5 episodes in and enjoying it. Not much punishing so far but solid.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/17 21:57:38


Post by: Easy E


The real questionis, how does it stand up to the classic.....



Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/18 17:37:29


Post by: Yodhrin


Well that was certainly a thing that happened 0_o

I'm not going to say it's bad or that I regret watching it, but I enjoyed it the least out of the Netflix shows so far. Which I actually feel bad about, because it should get credit for just presenting Frank as he is - a murdering nutter who likes killing regardless of what justification he purports to have - but the end result just confirms my initial suspicion that Castle makes a much better sympathetic sort-of-antagonist than he does a protagonist.

WARNING: the following contains both spoilers and some maybe-kinda-sorta-political stuff, which is unavoidable given the subjects discussed in the show so you know, don't @ me.

Spoiler:
The occasional forays into gun politics was also a touch unintentionally comic to someone from outside the US, as they solemnly present a "rational middle-ground" view that to most of the rest of the developed world seems very nearly as bizarre as the full on "Sic Semper Tyrannis" kid, while the guy presented as the loony bleeding-heart/hypocritical sleazeball was just articulating the completely normal status quo for most of us(I mean really, the whole "an actual nutter who bombed multiple places has made direct threats to your life and now you want armed protection - haha, checkmate libs!" shtick was so bizarre; I almost want to believe its clumsiness was the result of trying to insert artificial "balance" because of the whole crazy 2nd-ammendment civilian-murdering guy thing, but who knows).

Micro and Marzani were occasionally sympathetic, but almost everyone on the show is one degree or another of arsehole, which again feels like it was intentional so on the one hand I don't feel fair criticising for it, but on the other results in a cast of characters I didn't really like much and so didn't particularly care what happened to.

Overall, unless there's some tie-in to the other shows, I'll probably give the doubtless inevitable season 2 a miss.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/19 02:50:34


Post by: Compel


I couldn't resist reading the spoiler, despite not having netflix right now...

A comment you made there reminded me a lot of a thought I had on Iron Fist.

"It's like Season 1 of Arrow, but every single character in the show is an arsehole."


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/19 09:19:09


Post by: Yodhrin


 Compel wrote:
I couldn't resist reading the spoiler, despite not having netflix right now...

A comment you made there reminded me a lot of a thought I had on Iron Fist.

"It's like Season 1 of Arrow, but every single character in the show is an arsehole."


So it's like Season 1 of Arrow then? Seriously though, I must be odd since I quite enjoyed Iron Fist and don't get the hate for Danny - he was a whiny spoilt brat, sure, but he's supposed to be, him shedding his selfishness and becoming the hero he already pompously claims to be is a big part of his character arc. Which is, as I said, a reason I don't really feel "right" criticising Punisher for treating Frank in exactly the same way, but for some reason it just doesn't work for me here. Maybe it's because Iron Fist presented Danny sort of as a hugely annoying arse right then, but a fundamentally well-meaning person and someone who will grow into a proper hero eventually, while Punisher keeps hammering home that there really isn't anything redeemable about Frank, that he's not motivated by much of anything except his own love of killing and even his original semi-sympathetic revenge motivation was really just another excuse to indulge his inherently violent personality. The issue that brings up for me is that the only way you could really get an audience to cheer for Punisher once you've laid him so bare is to make whoever he's fighting an even worse monster then him, but even that doesn't really work when he exists as part of a reality that contains actual heroes who would be just as capable of defeating the bad guys without joyously slaughtering everything that stands in their way.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/19 12:35:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah... Iron Fist was terribad. Entertaining in spots, certainly more so than the (far better) Luke Cage, but still awful.



Anyway...


For the first 6 episodes of The Punisher I did not know where it was going. I could see the beginnings of a plot but it felt a bit listless, adrift and, well, not very Punisher-y.

That changed pretty quickly though, and by the end I thought it was fantastic. The 10th, I believe, episode, where we see a lot of the same event from different angles, was fantastic. The fights were brutal (haven't seen that much blood since Ransom*!).

Very much enjoyed it, and I do hope there second season especially after what happens to Billy.




*In the sense that Ransom had a very bloody last act. Obviously more gory things like, say, Spartacus, had more blood, but that's ultra-violence. It's stylised. This? This was just brutal.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/19 16:07:11


Post by: paulson games


I don't think he qualifies as murder crazy, he certainly has no qualms about killing enemies and wants them dead to satisfy his desire for revenge but his rage is directed specifically at his targets and he takes strides not to involve innocent people or bystanders, repeatedly endangering or disarming himself in order to protect hostages. He has a very clear set of rules of engagement and a sense of honor although it's a very dark one. The are some noble actions in his deeds and a number of the other characters try to get him on a heroic path but he's very much an antihero and doesn't want to change from that path "I am home" was pretty much a perfect expression his character who only feels pain and loss and is incapable of ever having happiness again, even when it's within reach he walks away from it.

He's very much like John Rambo in first blood a man who's pushed to his limit and snaps with very violent results, it's a war being waged against the establishment and corruption not simply a fight. Fighting an enemy forces defeat on them with the goal of allowing the wrongdoers to change and vindicate themselves even if it's a small and unlikely chance, Frank has given up all hopes of redemption both within himself and others and can only pursue total destruction, which is war.


Spoiler:
I liked the series pretty well but I do feel feel that he's approached in a bit different fashion than he was in Daredevil, I would have preferred for the gang war elements to have remained an ongoing part of the story rather than kicking off the series by ending the gangwar. Beyond just the flashbacks to his family's murder I think the PTSD elements were fairly well done as it's the other side to the giant mountain that causes his break. It was part of the core story in the Daredevil arc but we didn't see the finer details at the time and going more in depth in Punisher was good. I liked the way it tied them all together and also drove the the unit apart.

I did find some of the characters a bit flat but as a TV series not every character will always have great material. I was hoping to see a bit more of Kingpin since he does such a stellar performance in DD, but maybe that'll be material for season 2. The firefights in the later episodes were pretty awesome, but it felt like things were fairly idle for the first half the season. I get that they were working on the backstories and relationship building with Micro but coming from the intense gang war action to having to ramp back up seemed like it lost a lot of steam in between. DD he was dealing with the big picture elements, then the first half season he goes back to small stuff of interactions with Micro and Curtis, then back to big picture which was a bit disruptive in the flow as the narrative and pacing is different and so may create a hurdle for a lot of viewers. I enjoyed the character building but I wonder if they could have framed it a bit differently so that it felt like it was flowing along with the big picture events rather than being a spacer in between.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/19 16:32:48


Post by: Yodhrin


 paulson games wrote:
I don't think he qualifies as murder crazy, he certainly has no qualms about killing enemies and wants them dead to satisfy his desire for revenge but his rage is directed specifically at his targets and he takes strides not to involve innocent people or bystanders, repeatedly endangering or disarming himself in order to protect hostages. He has a very clear set of rules of engagement and a sense of honor although it's a very dark one. The are some noble actions in his deeds and a number of the other characters try to get him on a heroic path but he's very much an antihero and doesn't want to change from that path "I am home" was pretty much a perfect expression his character who only feels pain and loss and is incapable of ever having happiness again, even when it's within reach he walks away from it.


I disagree, I think the "I am home" moment was him finally acknowledging what the show was dancing around and implying all season - he fights and kills because he wants to, because he likes it, because it gives him a thrill. The Marines, Cerberus(this one in particular is key, his actions as part of that unit have no justification and he obvious knew as much at the time and simply didn't care), the death of his family, they're all just ways he gives himself permission to indulge his inner darkness without having to admit that's what he was doing. Plenty of villains have a "code", the issue is the motivation - Frank is essentially Dexter with guns, he's found a way to control and direct his impulses but it's still his impulses that drive him, and like I said I can't really get behind a character like that as a protagonist because their occasional, situational concessions to conventional morality are completely overshadowed by the fact that any good outcomes of their actions are incidental, their core objectives are selfish and only their choice of target mitigates them to the point they can't really be considered "evil" per se, and even that mitigation is lessened by the presence of other actual heroes who could deal with the same problems without indulging in a murder spree.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/20 00:10:28


Post by: paulson games


Spoiler:
Except at the point he says "I'm home" he's being beaten and tortured to the point of death so it's him accepting that the only state he feels anything is when it's pain and suffering which in turn generates the rage. He wasn't actively killing anyone during that sequence, but only once he accepts the fact he's completely lost does the switch flip back on and he's able to resist and fight again as that's what empowers him not simply the drive to kill.

The torture is intermixed with scenes of him having sex with his wife indicating that he has some wires crossed with enduring pain bringing him pleasure, there's never any scenes where he expresses joy or pleasure in killing anybody, or even feels a sense of relief or satisfaction because it's always simply part of the job "you gotta do what you gotta do". Even when he wastes his targets he never expresses any happiness in their death and never so much as cracks a smile, but Dexter lives for both the hunt and kill, the kill is a sacred and final act that he's highly ritualized and takes great enjoyment and pride in it, Punisher is performing a soldiers duty that he's sworn to uphold and in turn only feels more emptiness and loss as he gets darker and further away from the man Frank was before the war.

Frank Castle and the Punisher are two different personalities that overlap, Frank Castle is his pre-war humanity and compassion that still manages to peek out sometimes and is the force that keeps him alive but is slowly being crushed by the Punisher. The Punisher is the forlorn soldier consumed by emptiness, pain, and rage created from guilt and a life of war from which there's no return.

Punisher is seeking his own death and destruction so that his misery ends, but killing himself would be weakness especially when his revenge oath isn't finished. He's fully prepared to die in pursuit of vengeance, however what's left of Frank seeks to endure the loss of his family along with all the other pain and suffering as his act of atonement for all the past (and current) wrongdoing which denies the Punisher of the destructive final end he's seeking.



Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/20 17:17:16


Post by: Gen. Lee Losing


I feel that if this was just a stand alone series without the name Punisher, I would have really enjoyed it. The camera work was solid, the acting was good, the plot line moved along... but it did not feel like the Punisher.

He was not actually punishing anyone. Sure, there was violence. But it was directed mostly at grunts doing their job. (sure, they were bad guys, but military contractors are not bad by default and Frank didn't see them doing bad guy stuff... so just grunts.)

And the greatest offense of all...
Spoiler:
The show ended with "the Punisher" going to group therapy... That is the least Punisher thing I can imagine.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/20 21:47:37


Post by: H.B.M.C.


The show ended with Frank having his fingerprints and DNA wiped off the system. If that isn't a blank cheque to have him be the Punisher more freely, then I don't know what is.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/21 20:36:20


Post by: nfe


 Yodhrin wrote:

Spoiler:
The occasional forays into gun politics was also a touch unintentionally comic to someone from outside the US, as they solemnly present a "rational middle-ground" view that to most of the rest of the developed world seems very nearly as bizarre as the full on "Sic Semper Tyrannis" kid, while the guy presented as the loony bleeding-heart/hypocritical sleazeball was just articulating the completely normal status quo for most of us(I mean really, the whole "an actual nutter who bombed multiple places has made direct threats to your life and now you want armed protection - haha, checkmate libs!" shtick was so bizarre; I almost want to believe its clumsiness was the result of trying to insert artificial "balance" because of the whole crazy 2nd-ammendment civilian-murdering guy thing, but who knows).


Spoiler:
It's very reminiscent of the way 24 presented a senator that thought that Jack Bauer should tone down the torture and try and avoid shooting innocent people to encourage their friends to talk as insane villains.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/21 21:01:56


Post by: Spinner


 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
I feel that if this was just a stand alone series without the name Punisher, I would have really enjoyed it. The camera work was solid, the acting was good, the plot line moved along... but it did not feel like the Punisher.

He was not actually punishing anyone. Sure, there was violence. But it was directed mostly at grunts doing their job. (sure, they were bad guys, but military contractors are not bad by default and Frank didn't see them doing bad guy stuff... so just grunts.)


I'm pretty sure all the people that ended up on the wrong end of Frank's gun were actively trying to kill him or someone else when he shot them - and not just because they saw the guy who's been running all over New York shooting people, because they'd taken a job to assassinate someone.

Spoiler:
Compare the way he handled the guys hired to guard the Senator to the guys sent after his old army buddy.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/25 21:41:12


Post by: Luciferian


I think it's weird how someone could watch that show and come away with the impression that Castle is some kind of amoral serial killer who is motivated by sensation. He frequently prioritizes the lives of innocents and those he cares about above even his own mission for vengeance, and if faced with the choice to risk his life for someone else he will choose to do so every time, even if that person is a complete stranger. He even goes out of his way not to kill people like enlisted U.S. soldiers who are simply doing their job and have no awareness of the part they're playing in Agent Orange's plot. The targets of his vengeance are all clearly defined and he has absolutely no interest in hurting anyone who is not a threat to someone he cares about.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/29 02:43:32


Post by: Breotan


 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
I feel that if this was just a stand alone series without the name Punisher, I would have really enjoyed it. The camera work was solid, the acting was good, the plot line moved along... but it did not feel like the Punisher.

I'm watching it now and I feel the same way. This is a good character driven show but that character is not The Punisher, nor is it really Frank Castle.



Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/29 07:39:41


Post by: sebster


I'm four, maybe five episodes in. It's entirely okay. Slickly made, particularly the action, and it's well written - nothing ground breaking but the plot moves nicely. And I really like the guy playing the Punisher.

I've got one problem though, and its big enough that I can't really engage in the show- I really just could not give a gak about the government conspiracy nonsense. I know its a core Punisher story, but its one I've never really engaged with because it just isn't that interesting. Part of it is that the secret evil government man is a pretty worn out cliche by now, but mostly its because its what takes away the Punisher's most interesting dynamic. There's a million stories of psychos getting revenge on the people who wronged, Punisher is the guy who's tragedy drove him to start slaughtering thugs and low lifes of any stripe, despite them having no connection to him personally.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/30 06:43:00


Post by: LordofHats


I still haven't watched it in part because of the same reason Sebster hasn't engaged with it. After seeing the trailer I saw that the bad guys were going to be soldiers/army types, probably corrupt like we saw in DD season 2. To me that's just not what makes the Punisher an enjoyable catharsis. I'm sick and tired of government conspiracy tv shows. It's so damn cliche at this point, especially when it just keeps ruining things I liked (Blacklist being another recent show that I really liked until it disappeared up the global/government conspiracy poop hole).


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/11/30 20:06:17


Post by: Luciferian


The government conspiracy in this show isn't necessarily far reaching, but a government conspiracy it is, and it takes the focal point during the whole thing. So if that's not your cup of tea then this one probably won't dazzle you.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/01 06:01:51


Post by: Breotan


Finished it. It's one of the tighter stories they've done however... it isn't the comic book Punisher. You could easily swap out Frank Castle with a generic character played by Jason Statham and it would still be the same show. Other than that, the show was really good at what it wanted to be and I'd recommend it on its own merits. Just don't go in expecting to get more of what Daredevil's Punisher gave us.




Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/04 17:30:01


Post by: Shadow Walker


Finished it and must say that I liked it as much as Daredevil season 1 which so far I judged highest from all Marvel's heroes TV adaptations.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/05 12:35:23


Post by: LordofHats


So I did watch it and it was okay. Definitely not what I wanted out of a Punisher TV series though but it was okay. Actually one of the better government conspiracy plots in that it didn't try to over complicate itself, save for most of the villains being way to brain dead dumb to have ever gotten as far as they did.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/06 08:45:00


Post by: AduroT


 LordofHats wrote:
I still haven't watched it in part because of the same reason Sebster hasn't engaged with it. After seeing the trailer I saw that the bad guys were going to be soldiers/army types, probably corrupt like we saw in DD season 2. To me that's just not what makes the Punisher an enjoyable catharsis. I'm sick and tired of government conspiracy tv shows. It's so damn cliche at this point, especially when it just keeps ruining things I liked (Blacklist being another recent show that I really liked until it disappeared up the global/government conspiracy poop hole).


Maybe spoilery, but not super spoilery, but

Spoiler:
The bad guys aren’t US Military. It’s more a single rogue CIA dude who’s less corrupt, and more “ends justify the means” I do really bad stuff type, and a bunch of mercs.


There’s a bit more finer details than that, but that’s a brief synopsis of the villains.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/06 12:21:31


Post by: LordofHats


 AduroT wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
I still haven't watched it in part because of the same reason Sebster hasn't engaged with it. After seeing the trailer I saw that the bad guys were going to be soldiers/army types, probably corrupt like we saw in DD season 2. To me that's just not what makes the Punisher an enjoyable catharsis. I'm sick and tired of government conspiracy tv shows. It's so damn cliche at this point, especially when it just keeps ruining things I liked (Blacklist being another recent show that I really liked until it disappeared up the global/government conspiracy poop hole).


Maybe spoilery, but not super spoilery, but

Spoiler:
The bad guys aren’t US Military. It’s more a single rogue CIA dude who’s less corrupt, and more “ends justify the means” I do really bad stuff type, and a bunch of mercs.


There’s a bit more finer details than that, but that’s a brief synopsis of the villains.


Spoiler:
Meh. All the mercs who were that just walking corpses were ex-military and the the second main villain was a soldier who went mercenary. So army/soldier types, and corrupt. It was better than I expected, but it's still what it is. I honestly think Jon Bernthal is what really made the show work. The guy is easily my favorite actor to portray Frank Castle on screen/monitor. There's just this undercurrent of rage that he manages to convey so effortlessly, and it's that rage that makes Frank so human even as he's brutally murdering people. He's angry. Angry as feth at the world and how broken it seems to be. The previous two guys just didn't have that. They were too stoic.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/06 13:07:17


Post by: Hanskrampf


 LordofHats wrote:
He's angry. Angry as feth at the world and how broken it seems to be. The previous two guys just didn't have that. They were too stoic.


That's my exact problem with the Punisher series.
The intro shows him hunting down and murdering everyone involved in his family's murder. So he's not DD S2 Punisher anymore, he's got experience.
I expected his rage to have cooled down and him becoming more stoic, because that's what the Punisher is.
But he didn't.
He was careless and reckless most of the time.

Ray Stevenson in War Zone was imo a pretty good actor for a grizzled Punisher after years of fighting.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/06 16:12:58


Post by: Easy E


I have two episodes left, and I can't help but compare this show to USA's Shooter series. It tackles many of the same themes and plot points.

I will have to think about it a bit more if anyone wants me to elaborate.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/06 20:34:15


Post by: LordofHats


Yeah but Shooter made the plot really fething stupid. The movie was great. One of the few of its kind I really enjoyed, but damn did the series go dumb.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/07 16:57:07


Post by: Easy E




****Pretension ALert!****

Thinking about the show a bit more, I think Frank Castle (in this series) can be summed up in this paraphrased quote he says to Micro to get him to go on a two man job with him.

"Oh, are you pissed off now. Good. Being pissed off beats being scared every time."

That incapsulated THIS Frank Castle. He is always pissed off and angry, because if he stopped and thought about his life he would be scared instead, scared of the consequences and scared off what he would find within himself.

<shrug>


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 17:47:56


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Hanskrampf wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
He's angry. Angry as feth at the world and how broken it seems to be. The previous two guys just didn't have that. They were too stoic.


That's my exact problem with the Punisher series.
The intro shows him hunting down and murdering everyone involved in his family's murder. So he's not DD S2 Punisher anymore, he's got experience.
I expected his rage to have cooled down and him becoming more stoic, because that's what the Punisher is.
But he didn't.
He was careless and reckless most of the time.

Ray Stevenson in War Zone was imo a pretty good actor for a grizzled Punisher after years of fighting.


I thought that intro montage was a flashforward. He's not wearing his trademark Punisher Skull outfit yet (I'm up to ep 6 now), so I assummed that intro was jumping forward to some point towards the end of the season.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 18:24:53


Post by: Azreal13


IIRC He was already wearing it at the end of DD S2. The burning of the vest in that montage is intended as an indicator he's done being the Punisher, and the events of the opening few episodes are what bring him back. Donning the skull is clearly some outward sign of his mental state, when he stops being Frank and starts being the Punisher, whether that's purely intended as a visual cue for the audience or an actual part of this Punisher's mental process I don't know.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 18:29:24


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Azreal13 wrote:
IIRC He was already wearing it at the end of DD S2. The burning of the vest in that montage is intended as an indicator he's done being the Punisher, and the events of the opening few episodes are what bring him back. Donning the skull is clearly some outward sign of his mental state, when he stops being Frank and starts being the Punisher, whether that's purely intended as a visual cue for the audience or an actual part of this Punisher's mental process I don't know.


Ah, completely missed that. Who was it that killed his family then? The mafia? Or the dirty Black Ops guys?



Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 18:35:15


Post by: Easy E


The Mob guys physically killed them in the crossfire of a bad heroine deal, but they were set-up by the Blacksmith and his crew who were part of the Black Ops conspiracy.

Yes, it gets a bit strained.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 18:37:31


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Easy E wrote:
The Mob guys physically killed them in the crossfire of a bad heroine deal, but they were set-up by the Blacksmith and his crew who were part of the Black Ops conspiracy.

Yes, it gets a bit strained.


And the scene where his wife gets shot in their bedroom by a masked intruder is a ret-con? Or is he just having some sort of mental break or confusing his memories etc?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 18:44:10


Post by: ChargerIIC


It's part of his mental condition. He often has dreams in which the perfect life turns into a bloody mess and everyone gets killed while he watches.

I was disappointed that the CIA was the enemy. Again. Marvel can't seem to stop casting the same three government agencies as the bad guys. It should have been the mafia or some kind of large gang. That's punisher territory - not this international spy crap.

Still happy with the actor they picked. He doesn't look like frank castle, but he really sounds and feels like him. Constantly angry, avoiding the complicated ethical arguments and using violence as his first resort.

Still annoyed that all the veterans in the show are depicted as not being trustryworthy with guns. I get it's hollywood, but I really didn't need all the preaching about the need to ban firearms from vets.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 19:23:10


Post by: Dreadwinter


 ChargerIIC wrote:
It's part of his mental condition. He often has dreams in which the perfect life turns into a bloody mess and everyone gets killed while he watches.

I was disappointed that the CIA was the enemy. Again. Marvel can't seem to stop casting the same three government agencies as the bad guys. It should have been the mafia or some kind of large gang. That's punisher territory - not this international spy crap.

Still happy with the actor they picked. He doesn't look like frank castle, but he really sounds and feels like him. Constantly angry, avoiding the complicated ethical arguments and using violence as his first resort.

Still annoyed that all the veterans in the show are depicted as not being trustryworthy with guns. I get it's hollywood, but I really didn't need all the preaching about the need to ban firearms from vets.


The CIA was not the enemy, it was an agent who had gone rogue. Remember, when his boss found out what he had been doing she dropped him pretty quick. It was clear she was adamantly against what he had done.



Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 21:12:22


Post by: Easy E


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
The Mob guys physically killed them in the crossfire of a bad heroine deal, but they were set-up by the Blacksmith and his crew who were part of the Black Ops conspiracy.

Yes, it gets a bit strained.


And the scene where his wife gets shot in their bedroom by a masked intruder is a ret-con? Or is he just having some sort of mental break or confusing his memories etc?


Those scenes were his sunconcious telling him that he was ultimately responsible for his families death because of his involvement with the Death Squad. If he hadn't gotten roped in and followed orders, she would not be dead. Basically, he is so angry all the time because he ultimtely feels responsible for his families death, not the bad guys. Plus, he would rather be angry, than feeling guiltya nd sad about what he had done.

Edit: I still have 2 episodes left, but I was kind of hoping that the Black Ops guys would lead back to the mysterious group of soldiers/doctors juicing up soldiers in Jessica Jones.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/08 21:16:47


Post by: ChargerIIC


 Dreadwinter wrote:
 ChargerIIC wrote:
It's part of his mental condition. He often has dreams in which the perfect life turns into a bloody mess and everyone gets killed while he watches.

I was disappointed that the CIA was the enemy. Again. Marvel can't seem to stop casting the same three government agencies as the bad guys. It should have been the mafia or some kind of large gang. That's punisher territory - not this international spy crap.

Still happy with the actor they picked. He doesn't look like frank castle, but he really sounds and feels like him. Constantly angry, avoiding the complicated ethical arguments and using violence as his first resort.

Still annoyed that all the veterans in the show are depicted as not being trustryworthy with guns. I get it's hollywood, but I really didn't need all the preaching about the need to ban firearms from vets.


The CIA was not the enemy, it was an agent who had gone rogue. Remember, when his boss found out what he had been doing she dropped him pretty quick. It was clear she was adamantly against what he had done.



That's always the excuse in Marvel media. It is never the entire agency but its clearly some part of the agency with power that needs a rogue agent to prove the evil they committed in warzone X. I mean, you could have swapped Punisher for Captain America and most of the series would have been the same. It's a plot tempalte that marvel uses a lot outside of its comic books and its getting tired.

The whole point of these less popular heroes getting series is that many of them have non-traditional enemies (ninjas, street gangs, mafia). After seeing Luke Cage really get engaged on some street level justice I was hoping the same for Punisher, but instead for the Corrupt Government Agent subplot again


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/09 17:20:41


Post by: KingCracker




Ray Stevenson in War Zone was imo a pretty good actor for a grizzled Punisher after years of fighting.



Hes hands down my favorite Punisher*


*he has the look and his personality is great. The problem is the movie was just SO gakky. If he was in a remake where it was more Nerflix in feel then Id be on board. But I reallllllly like Netflixs version


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/13 21:40:49


Post by: Azreal13


So S2 on Netflix is confirmed, with Barracuda as the main rumoured antagonist.

Shame Michael Clarke Duncan is no longer with us.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/17 15:42:27


Post by: NenkotaMoon


Hopefully Punisher PUNISHES more people. That subplot with the PTSD veteran that was not Frank was a mess, as well, we could have shortened this show to maybe 9-10, far better. Instead it was rather okay. About Daredevil level. To me bad is Jessica Jones and Iron Fist.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/17 20:27:19


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 Azreal13 wrote:
So S2 on Netflix is confirmed, with Barracuda as the main rumoured antagonist.

Shame Michael Clarke Duncan is no longer with us.


That could be fun, but we're going to need a bigger actor (the chap from Lucifer and Buffy ?)


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/17 22:48:17


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
So S2 on Netflix is confirmed, with Barracuda as the main rumoured antagonist.

Shame Michael Clarke Duncan is no longer with us.


That could be fun, but we're going to need a bigger actor (the chap from Lucifer and Buffy ?)


Now I am upset that Ving Rhames is already in the MCU. :(


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/17 23:15:45


Post by: KingCracker


 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Hopefully Punisher PUNISHES more people. That subplot with the PTSD veteran that was not Frank was a mess, as well, we could have shortened this show to maybe 9-10, far better. Instead it was rather okay. About Daredevil level. To me bad is Jessica Jones and Iron Fist.



I agree on Iron Fist, never even finished it. Jessica Jones however Id disagree with, that is probably 2nd or 3rd best for me


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/18 22:03:01


Post by: Easy E


Finished the last episode last night. 1 episode too many.

Spoiler:

Is Billy (after having his face mangled by Castle, the same guy tha is the main baddie in Punisher: Warzone? Is his name Puzzleface/Jigsaw or something?


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/19 01:20:34


Post by: redleger


 ChargerIIC wrote:
It's part of his mental condition. He often has dreams in which the perfect life turns into a bloody mess and everyone gets killed while he watches.

I was disappointed that the CIA was the enemy. Again. Marvel can't seem to stop casting the same three government agencies as the bad guys. It should have been the mafia or some kind of large gang. That's punisher territory - not this international spy crap.

Still happy with the actor they picked. He doesn't look like frank castle, but he really sounds and feels like him. Constantly angry, avoiding the complicated ethical arguments and using violence as his first resort.

Still annoyed that all the veterans in the show are depicted as not being trustryworthy with guns. I get it's hollywood, but I really didn't need all the preaching about the need to ban firearms from vets.


I agree with this. Its getting old. Makes us all look like broken burdens on society which is far from the truth. I did however take a different view on how the young marine was easily brought in with rhetoric. I've seen a few fall in with the wrong people based on disenfranchisement. The best part of the series, strictly from a Frank Castle perspective, was when he shoved the guy in the freezer and closed the door, then looked through the glass with that sick fething broken veteran look in his eye and said, yea kids, thats right, you can do it.

Over all great show, looked like it tried to shine a light on veteran social issues but failed horribly as to lead one to believe they were doing the opposite. Actor who plays Punisher nails it.


Netflix's The Punisher @ 2017/12/20 00:31:46


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 Easy E wrote:
Finished the last episode last night. 1 episode too many.

Spoiler:

Is Billy (after having his face mangled by Castle, the same guy tha is the main baddie in Punisher: Warzone? Is his name Puzzleface/Jigsaw or something?


Spoiler:
Yep, Jigsaw. Though, Puzzleface is a pretty awesome super viillan name.