Our best HQ by far - giving rerolls to hit for all models within 6". Cawl is the core of our army, and an integral part of the "CawlStar" (Kastelans, Cawl, Datasmith, and a screening unit). Very much worth his pricetag for what he does.
His armament is hardly to be laughed at, but is very much secondary to his utility usage. The Solar Atomizer's short range makes it a semi-decent CC monster deterrent (it will generally do significant damage to Carnifex sized creatures), but it being in range signifies that you're in a dangerous position. Kastelans being locked in combat generally spells doom for our army, if we cannot resolve the situation quickly.
Now that we have Enginseers to serve as a cheap HQ, the Dominus isn't particularly useful. Unless you're unable to run Cawl (say, you're playing mono-Stygies or mono-Lucius), I would advise skipping him. The TPD is simply not effective enough for his high price.
Gambling unit. For 17pts per model you have a little bit overpriced glass cannon, but if you meet certain prerequisites you get underpriced murder machines. They have normal movement(6”) and decent WS(3+), okay LD(8) and two attacks with crazy good weapon.
They can give mortal wounds at rate making Death Guard jealous. First giving at charge on 6 per model, and then in combat on 6+to wound d3 mortal wounds instead of normal damage. That thing can drop any tough target down, even superheavy, and if you would need to, you can repeat this electropounding with 3cp.
But there is a catch. They are only T3 W1 with 6+/5++/5+++. It wouldn’t be bad if they were not so high in target priority of your opponent. And here comes twist. If you wipe unit in fighting phase, they get 3++ for the rest of the game. Suddenly you have quite sturdy unit that punches like hammer. You want to use stygies stratagem to place them in optimal range from your opponent (9”+from enemy if first, somewhere in midfield behind LOS blocking terrain if second). If you went first, GG they probably single handily won you the game, if second you need to use them carefully since they are probably in unit size of 10+ and you don't want them to evaporate under enemy fire and morale loss.
You can also use Lucius startagem, but I saw to many failed 9” charges to add even more gambling to this equation.
Hordes are their weakness, since they deal multi wound damage, but not so many hits. Also, 2+ wound damage, since it almost nullifies their fnp. Never aim their first charge at something that they couldn’t destroy in first take. If you multicharge, activate them first. Vehicles, monsters, MEQ and TEQ are their preferred target. They are in destructive potential probably on par with Kastellans, but much trickier to pull of. Once they are in SuperSayan mode, they force your opponent to dedicate tremendous power to stop them from rampaging through their back line, giving rest of your army easy time. High risk, high reward unit.
Corpuscarii are relatively cheap, not troop’s level cheap, but 14 pts/model isn’t much for power they offer and for role they are going to do. They aren’t super durable since 5+ inv and 5+ FNP is just barely better (55% vs 50%) than 4+ on 1D attacks. You can’t bump their defense by cover or Shroudpsalm, since their normal save is 6+, and T3 doesn’t help either in world where bolters are common. And you would need every bit of defense since their weapon range is only 12”.
Now, their weapon is 12” assault 3 shots s5 ap0 and D1 exploding 6+ on hit rolls giving you 3 instead 1 hit AND 2 attacks in melee with the same stats. That is a lot of daka averaging with 33,(3) hits of 10 man shooting. It’s bit better than storm bolter in rapid fire range. What they lack in range, they add up to their value in melee averaging on 17,(6) hits on 10 man unit. That’s 50 hits in one round.
Their role is to get in front of your gunline with vanguard, catch charges and deny your opponent from deepstriking and fast attack units, preferably holding objective at the same time. They want to do that on high power opponents, like TEQ with plasma, scions with plasma, harlequins etc bikes. Preferred unit size is 5-10, anything over that will suffer from morale rolls. Look for places with LOS blocking terrain and hold that. Only horde type troops can reliably reclaim objective from them, since other ones won't stand chance in 1v1.
You could also drop them in size of 20+ with Lucius stratagem delivering nasty amounts of daka, but that may quickly backfire with morale rolls. Use with caution to sweep enemy backline objective holders on turn 2 or 3 and lock or distract artilery.
Their best Dogmas are Sygies and Graia(boost defense), then Metallica. They don't benefit from Lucius. They lack serious synergy since we don't have any way to give them +1to hit. There are few stratagems that we can use them with, mainly Wrath of mars, Acquisition at any cost, Legio teleportarium, Clandestine Infiltration and Zealous Congregation, of which three are Forge World specific.
Not bad unit, but overshadowed by other that can do its job better(Sicarian Infiltrators, Dragoons) pushing priest to semi-vanguard role, even harder since codex came out.
6,5/10
Dragoons are the fastest unit in the Adeptus Mechanicus codex aside from Mechanicum Knights. Despite their speed, they are a surprisingly durable unit, due to T6, -1 to hit from Incense Cloud, cover in the open from possible Shroudpsalm, and no damage table. Dragoons should always be taken in a Stygies detachment, which grants it a monstrous -2 to hit past 12" making it impossible for Ork-level shooting to damage them, and causes supercharged plasma to explode 50% of the time. Stygies also grants a stratagem to allow Dragoons to infiltrate, which forces your opponent to adopt a more defensive posture--a situation in which you as a shooting army are clearly favored.
They have two weapon choices. The first is the Taser Lance, which allows AdMech to take a unit that is capable of fighting. It is the preferred option. Although 5 points cheaper, the Radium Jezzail suffers greatly from a lack of AP, is inferior to the Transuranic Arquebus, and is not recommended in any situation.
The primary role of Dragoons is to serve as a screening unit to prevent enemies from getting into close combat with your shooting units. They can also skirmish to tie up enemy screens and other shooting units in close combat, and grab objectives cleared by your artillery. Finally, they may act as shock cavalry to destroy T6-7 vehicles, especially transports and artillery. The size of a Dragoon unit dictates its usage, as the Dragoon's large 105x70mm base causes issues when piling-in--both for yourself and your opponent.
A unit of 1-2 is ideal for screening, as the unit can be deployed at maximum coherence without ever fearing being unable to pile-in correctly. The proper formation is a wall, with the Dragoons' sides facing the enemy. This wall should move sideways toward the enemy and should pile-in so that enemy models cannot fit in between the two Dragoons. Without any additional screening units, two units of 2 is considered ideal for a 2000 point army.
A unit of 3-4 is ideal for a shock cavalry role. With the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative stratagem, a unit of Dragoons becomes a battering ram. Normally mediocre Taser Lances explode on 4+, which in a unit of 4 translates to 24 S8 AP-1 D2 attacks that hit on 2+. A unit of 3 can be expected to consistently kill any T6 transport (such as Taurox Prime), and a unit of 4 any T7 transport (such as Razorback). A unit in this role should always be the last in your army to deploy, as you must position it as far to the opponent's flank and rear as possible. The proper formation for a unit of 3 is a wedge, with two Dragoons following a lead Dragoon facing the enemy, and the proper formation for a unit of 4 is a square, with two parallel lines facing the enemy.
When charging as a large unit, move your Dragoons together as far to the target's side as possible; the enemy should be on the immediate left or right of your Dragoons, a hair's breath under 1". After fighting, you may consolidate an addition 3". Use this to move further past and behind the enemy, being sure to end the consolidation move less than a hair's breadths under 1". The goal here is to get within 1" of as many shooting enemy units as possible. This "sliding" technique is essential for two reasons: 1) Tying up additional enemies without having to take Overwatch. 2) Allowing you to penetrate into the enemy rear by falling back past the enemy the following turn.
Forge Worlds:
Spoiler:
++PLACEHOLDER++
Relics:
Spoiler:
If your army is led by an Adeptus Mechanicus warlord, then you can give one relic to an Adeptus Mechanicus Character. Keep in mind named Characters like Belisarius Cawl can't have any relics, so I'll be giving advice based on the generic Characters. You have access to one free relic, and can buy a second one for 1 CP, or a third one for 3 CP (1 Relic = Free, 2 Relics = 1 CP, 3 Relics = 3 CP).
ARCANA MECHANICUM
Universal: Pater Cog-Tooth: Replaces an Omnissian Axe, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus or an Enginseer. It gives 1 more Strength and 1 more Damage than an ordinary axe. It would be a waste on an Enginseer with his poor CC skill, but a Dominus would hit at S6 with it. It's an odd statline, because you wouldn't face that much T6 models except against Xeno armies like Aeldari flavours or Tyranids. It would probably be best against the latter, as Tyranids are more likely to face you in CC than Drukhari Raiders for example. Could be useful on a Stygies VIII Warlord with the Xenarites Studies trait, as you'd add +1 to your Wound rolls and so wound T7 models on 4+. So it's a highly specific relic that could be useful in a Xeno-heavy meta, otherwise you'd be best to leave it in the reliquary.
Anzion's Pseudogenetor: Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1D6 additional attacks with this S4 AP-1 D1 weapon. Clearly meant to deal with hordes, you could use this on a backfield character, like a Datasmith or Tech-Priest, to deal with tarpits that reach your artillery so as to dispose of them faster and get back firing earlier. Otherwise, could be used offensively against horde armies with a Tech-Priest supported by Infiltrators with Tasers for clearing the area. There are more useful relics, but it's not terrible either.
Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land: The bearer regains 1W lost earlier each turn, and allows him to reroll the die for the number of Wounds repaired when repairing a friendly Adeptus Mechanicus unit. It's a great relic, best used on a Dominus dedicated to repairing your artillery like Onagers and Robots, as it greatly enhances the lifespan of those units. Best used with the Necromechanic Warlord trait, as you'll reliably heal between 2 and 4 Wounds per turn, maybe double that if used with the Tech-Adept stratagem. Your Onager ate a Lascannon shot ? There it's fixed. The regenerating 1W per turn in just the cherry on the cake, in case Snipers noticed you you just heal between 2 and 4 Wounds with your Dominus each turn. A must-have in any army that relies on its artillery.
Uncreator Gauntlet: Replaces a Power Fist, so usable only by your Datasmith. It's a regular Power Fist that deals a Mortal wound each time you successfully wound a Vehicle with it. Not worth wasting a slot for this most of the time, the only use I could see for it is to make your Datasmith useful when accompanying Punching Bots, but it's a highly situational/useless Relic otherwise.
Phosphoenix: Replaces a Phosphor Serpenta, so usable only by a Tech-Priest Dominus. It's a S5 AP-3 D1 Ignore Cover Assault weapon. I don't see the use of this to be honest, its statline being great against TEQ but you'd still need the 3 shots to hope to bring one down so that looks like an underperforming weapon to me. Could be used with the Xenarit Studies Warlord trait to wound Xeno T6 units on a 4+ but that's a lot of adjusting to do to make it usable. Not worth a Relic Slot.
Raiment of the Technomartyrs: Gives the bearer a 6+ FnP equivalent, and each time a friendly <Forge-World> model within 6" of the bearer shoots in Overwatch and obtains a 6 to Hit, this model can make a bonus attack with the same weapon (this bonus attack can't generate more bonus attacks). The only way I see to make this item useful barring the FnP is to use it near Corpuscarii Electro-Priests to try to trigger even more Tesla shots, otherwise hoping to have one or two more shots in Overwatch won't likely change the game. Congrats if you manage to get a bonus Neutron Laser attack with it, though. I'd not recommend it, but it's a way to add more survivability to a character otherwise.
The Skull of Elder Nikola: Once per game, in your Shooting phase, the bearer can use this to deal one Mortal Wound to each enemy Vehicle unit within 2D6" on a roll of 2+. Not worth it at all, keep away from this. One mortal Wound will never help you more than the other available relics we have access to.
Omniscient Mask: Allows you to reroll failed Hit rolls in CC for friendly Skitarii units within 6" of the bearer. The only Skitarii units that would benefit this are the Sicarians and Dragoons, and they'll both be faster and most likely far away from your relic bearer. Using the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative for 1 CP is costlier but far more effective than this relic, because they'll hit on a 2+ and their Taser weapons will proc on a 5+ for Infiltrators and 4+ for Dragoons. A way to use this would be if somehow you screened your backline with Sicarians near your relic bearer and artillery and want to defend against a charge more efficiently, but it's still a situational relic that'd be best left for another one.
Forge-World specific: Graia - The Cerebral Techno-Mite: Tech-Priest Dominus only, gives +1 CP at the start of the battle if your army is Battleforged. Don't buy another relic for this obviously. Could benefit a Graia Detachment if you're hungry for CPs, but as it will be your only relic you'll have to consider if it's absolutely necessary to have this bonus CP. I'd not recommend it, seeing how easier it is to grab CPs now that we have a 52 pts HQ.
Mars - The Red Axe: Replaces an Omnissian Axe to give it an AP-5 profile instead of AP-1. It's not great at all, as your Dominus/Enginseer won't have enough Strength to reliably wound the targets that have a 2+ armour save. Avoid !
Lucius - The Solar Flare: Once per game, at the end of any of your Movement phases, the bearer can teleport instead of moving normally. Remove him from the Battlefield and replace him anywhere within 30" of his previous position and 9" away from any enemy units. Could be useful when playing Maelstrom missions when you have a card that asks your Warlord to control a certain objective for example, given there's no enemy nearby. Could be useful to save your Warlord's backside from a tedious situation and deny your opponent the Slay the Warlord.
Metalica - Adamantine Arm: Gives a Melee S*3 AP-3 D3 weapon to the relic bearer. You can only hit once each time the bearer fights in CC with it though, so hitting at S12 might be tempting but for just 3 Damage you'd best leave it where it is. Not worth taking.
Stygies VIII - The Omnissiah's Hand: The bearer rolls a die at the end of each Fight phase for each enemy unit within 1" of him, on a 4+ that unit suffers a Mortal Wound. Could be useful if your bearer gets assaulted by Characters or something, but in that case he will probably die before fighting anyway so it's not worth picking this relic.
Ryza - Weapon XCIX: Replaces a Volkite Blaster, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus only. Changes the profile to a S7 AP-1 D2 weapon with the same Mortal wound on a 6+ to Wound ability. If you run Ryza and really want a powerful weapon for your Dominus this can be nice, as it's a nice anti-vehicle weapon, but keep in mind you have access to the First-hand Field Testing Warlord trait that gives +1S and +1D to a weapon of your choice barring a relic, so you just win a AP-1 with this. It's a choice between a relic slot and a Warlord trait.
Agrippina - Eye of Lexum: At the beginning of each of your Shooting phases, pick an enemy Vehicle unit within 18" of the bearer, and all friendly Agripinaa units can reroll 1s to Wound against that target until the end of the phase. If the target is a Chaos Vehicle, you can reroll all failed to Wound rolls against that target until the end of the phase instead. Can be great when used with Onagers, when you really need to destroy a Vehicle.
Strategy:
Spoiler:
Wrathbots
This strategy revolves around a specific combination of models, rules, and strategems. The concept is simple, but gives our already powerful Kastelan robots an added buff.
Forge World: Mars
Strategem(s): Wrath of Mars (2CP), Binharic Override (1CP)
Key Units: Belisarius Cawl
4-6 Dakkastelan Datasmith [Optional]
Overview: The “Dakkastelan” - or a Kastelan Robot configured with a trio of Heavy Phosphor blasters - is the lynchpin and ideally we want to take a larger squad for economy of CP. Each Robot puts out 9 shots in Aegis (the default) or 18 when in Protector Protocols.
Once your Robots and Cawl are in position, you either switch to Protector Protocols via a Datasmith or Binharic Override. The unit of Dakkastelans should be within Cawl’s Lord of Mars Aura. This allows all friendly Mars units to re-roll their to-hit rolls in the Shooting Phase. The volume of fire plus the increased number of hits via re-rolls means that when we use Wrath of Mars, we have a large pool of hits which will ideally translate to additional Mortal Wounds.
This simple strategy enables our already deadly Robot unit to deliver a staggering number of Mortal Wounds, giving us an answer to large threats like Magnus.
By-the-Numbers: Six Dakkastelans puts out 108 shots in Protector Protocols. On average rolls with Cawl’s Aura, this translates to roughly 80 hits. The likelihood of rolling a 6 to trigger a Mortal Wound via Wrath of Mars is 16%, meaning around 13 mortal wounds in a single round of shooting in addition to our standard damage. This is why Wrathbots will be a staple of all AdMech lists, because being able to one-round extremely tough units is an asset. It also increases our overall damage pool, meaning we can wipe out additional models from units, making this a solid strategy for knocking out must-kill horde units in addition to tough single-model units.
Goondozer
This strategy is a general formation of models utilizing specific buffs. Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances under Conqueror Doctrina Imperative and the Chant of the Remorseless Fist Canticle. Due to the addition of -1 AP to the Taser Lance and the new strategem, this unit becomes our premier close-combat unit.
Forge World: Stygies VIII
Stategem(s): Conqueror Doctrina Imperative (1CP), Clandestine Infiltration (1CP), Machine Spirit's Revenge (1 CP) [Optional]
Canticle(s): Chant of the Remorseless Fist
Key Units: 4+ Sydonian Dragoons w/ Taser Lances
Overview: This strategy is straight-forward and powerful. Forge World Stygies adds an additional layer of protection from shooting, adding to our innate -1 to-hit via Incense Cloud, for a total of -2 to-hit from shooting outside of 12”. This is a major boon to keep our unit alive so it can close in and start getting locked into combat(s). Via Clandestine Infiltration, we can position our Dragoons as close as we dare to the opponent’s units - given that we can make our normal movement of 10” and declare out charge, we do not need to be so close as to allow the enemy to move up and shoot within 12”, though. Position just where you think best via pre-measuring movements/ranges to enable a likely charge.
Each Dragoon has a Broad Spectrum Data-tether, which is a prerequisite for the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative to provide its maximum benefit, which is +2 to-hit in the Fight phase. The reason this is impressive is due to the Taser Lance triggering on a 6+, meaning under this strategem it will trigger on a 4+, leading to significantly improved chances to get the three hits instead of just one.
In addition to the strategem, we should strive to get the Chant of the Remorseless Fist activated, to allow us to maximize our hit potential via re-rolling 1’s in the Fight Phase. This gives us more chances to roll 4+ and have our single miss turn into three hits instead. With the addition of -1 AP on our weapons and the high strength of the attacks translating our increased volume of attacks into a high volume of wounds, we should be able to put out a solid amount of damage in a single round. Given the nature of our army, having a solid close-combat element can be vital for locking into place units while we address others via our artillery.
By-the-Numbers: A unit of six Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances will start with three attacks each, for a total of eighteen initial attacks. Half of these will result in a 4+, meaning 27 attacks from our exploding hits. Of the 2 or 3 misses we get via 1’s, when we re-roll via Chant, we will get an additional 1 or 2 hits - for additional chances to explode. This translates into about 30ish hits or more, meaning against most enemies we are wound on 2+, for a total of about 25 wounds at -1 AP. Even against toughness 8 models, we are doing 15 wounds. Those are the two most common scenarios for our Goondozer unit to encounter. Given our high toughness, modest wounds, and somewhat mediocre save (4+), it would likely not be prudent to engage dedicated melee units, especially those with weapons that do d3 and d6 damage. That being said, we can always do a last resort Machine Spirit's Revenge when one of our Dragoons inevitably dies - exploding automatically and causing 1 mortal wound to each unit within 3”. Not particularly deadly, but in some instances it might prove useful.
Don't forget a placeholder for Forge Worlds as well. That'll be mildly important.
Now should we have a separate section for allies? After all that garbage thrown in the last thread by that one poster, it would be immoral for us not to help new players understand why Grey Knight Terminators are not a good idea as an allied screen haha!
I’m not pleased about how GW only made those beautiful unit headers for half of our units, now I have to figure out how to make some of my own to finish the set. May be hard to do in MS Paint. I may even have to (shock horror) use a more advanced image editing software.
Let’s be nice and civil in this thread, we do not need more schisms.
I simply don't want misinformation being posted in the thread. What you want to do in your games is whatever you want to do, but I want facts, statistics, and common sense in a Tactica thread.
Dragoons are Skitarii vehicles that stand out as the fastest unit in the Adeptus Mechanicus codex aside from Mechanicum Knights. Despite their speed, they are a surprisingly durable unit for their relatively cheap price of 68 points. They have T6, -1 to hit from Incense Cloud, cover in the open from possible Shroudpsalm, and no damage table. Dragoons should always be taken in a Stygies detachment, which grants it a monstrous -2 to hit past 12", making it impossible for Ork-level shooting to damage them, and causes supercharged plasma to explode 50% of the time. Stygies also grants a stratagem to allow Dragoons to infiltrate, which forces your opponent to adopt a more defensive posture--a situation in which you as a shooting army are clearly favored.
They have two weapon choices. The first is the Taser Lance, which allows AdMech to take a unit that is capable of fighting. It is the preferred option. Although 5 points cheaper, the Radium Jezzail suffers greatly from a lack of AP, is inferior to the Transuranic Arquebus, and is not recommended in any situation.
The primary role of Dragoons is to serve as a screening unit to prevent enemies from getting into close combat with your shooting units. They can also skirmish to tie up enemy screens and other shooting units in close combat, and grab objectives cleared by your artillery. Finally, they may act as shock cavalry to destroy T6-7 vehicles, especially transports and artillery.
The size of a Dragoon unit dictates its usage, as the Dragoon's large 105x70mm base causes issues when piling-in--both for yourself and your opponent.
A unit of 1-2 is ideal for screening, as the unit can be deployed at maximum coherence without ever fearing being unable to pile-in correctly. The proper formation is a wall, with the Dragoons' sides facing the enemy. This wall should move sideways toward the enemy and should pile-in so that enemy models cannot fit in between the two Dragoons. Without any additional screening units, two units of 2 is considered ideal for a 2000 point army.
A unit of 3-4 is ideal for a shock cavalry role. With the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative stratagem, a unit of Dragoons becomes a battering ram. Normally mediocre Taser Lances explode on 4+, which in a unit of 4 translates to 24 S8 AP-1 D2 attacks that hit on 2+. A unit of 3 can be expected to consistently kill any T6 transport (such as Taurox Prime), and a unit of 4 any T7 transport (such as Razorback). A unit in this role should always be the last in your army to deploy, as you must position it as far to the opponent's flank and rear as possible. The proper formation for a unit of 3 is a wedge, with two Dragoons following a lead Dragoon facing the enemy, and the proper formation for a unit of 4 is a square, with two parallel lines facing the enemy.
When charging as a large unit, move your Dragoons together as far to the target's side as possible; the enemy should be on the immediate left or right of your Dragoons, a hair's breath under 1". After fighting, you may consolidate an addition 3". Use this to move further past and behind the enemy, being sure to end the consolidation move less than a hair's breadths under 1". The goal here is to get within 1" of as many shooting enemy units as possible. This "sliding" technique is essential for two reasons: 1) Tying up additional enemies without having to take Overwatch. 2) Allowing you to penetrate into the enemy rear by falling back past the enemy the following turn.
If you want me to cut it down, I can. I also plan to do the Knights tomorrow. All of them. These are the units that I probably differed on the most with people in the past. >_>
Most interested in the Allies section. Many to chose from and will keep changing over next year. Astra Millitarum fills a lot of niches better than AdMech. Scions, Primaris Psykers, fodder, mechanized fodder, tools.
I'm gonna try skirmishing Space Marine bikers. No clue how good it'll be but I wanna mix Ravenwing. Playing them as Raven Guard until codex.
There is a simple prologue you can use in 1d4chan page that many have contributed there for that result. You can start with those and we can build on them. Suzuteo has made a thesis on Dragoons hahahahah
axisofentropy wrote: Most interested in the Allies section. Many to chose from and will keep changing over next year. Astra Millitarum fills a lot of niches better than AdMech. Scions, Primaris Psykers, fodder, mechanized fodder, tools.
I'm gonna try skirmishing Space Marine bikers. No clue how good it'll be but I wanna mix Ravenwing. Playing them as Raven Guard until codex.
I can help give tips on good units to ally in if you're that interested.
The auto blow up strategem can be nice if used correctly.
Agrapinaa + bots is a nasty combo
Surrounding and encircling might be a good strategy. Once I have more games in with different armies I'll write a bit up on this.
A definitive changes list would be a good idea in these early days, to help people who might overlook things.
Also, do Breachers have a better role now that they're 10 points cheaper and have an extra attack? It seems you'd still not really want them in combat, and they still have worse firepower than destroyers for little payoff.
WEAPON XCIX might be good if it wasn't a ryza only model. it's not damage 1 as previously thought it's damage 2. GW what the hell were you thinking with ryza....
I'll write a summary about the different relics and stratagems, in competitive and non-competitive settings, just give me a little time to write about it. Thinking about writing a summary about the Dominus too, but be warned that I tend to write really lengthy texts
tpogs wrote: Are Grav-Cannon Destroyers as great as I think they are?
210 points of grav destroyers produces 15 str5, -3, D3 against 3+ shots. 220 points of phosphorbots produces 18 str6, -2, ignore cover, d1 shots without double shoot mode.
The grav destroyers have 9 wounds at T5 with a 4+/6++ The phosphorbots have 12 wounds at T7 with a default 2+/4++
Until there is a FAQ, Robots in defense mode are outshot by the grav destroyers against 3+ save targets, but the Robots are dramatically tougher in either mode with the double shoot mode being double the firepower of the grav destroyers.
TLDR: grav destroyers outshoot defensive mode robots against very specific targets (terminators, primaris, T4/3+), but are always flimsier and put out significantly worse firepower than double shooting robots.
tpogs wrote: Are Grav-Cannon Destroyers as great as I think they are?
210 points of grav destroyers produces 15 str5, -3, D3 against 3+ shots.
220 points of phosphorbots produces 18 str6, -2, ignore cover, d1 shots without double shoot mode.
The grav destroyers have 9 wounds at T5 with a 4+/6++
The phosphorbots have 12 wounds at T7 with a default 2+/4++
Until there is a FAQ, Robots in defense mode are outshot by the grav destroyers against 3+ save targets, but the Robots are dramatically tougher in either mode with the double shoot mode being double the firepower of the grav destroyers.
TLDR: grav destroyers outshoot defensive mode robots against very specific targets (terminators, primaris, T4/3+), but are always flimsier and put out significantly worse firepower than double shooting robots.
But GW won't sell me Robots and also I can't paint their guns glowy-green. =(
tpogs wrote: Are Grav-Cannon Destroyers as great as I think they are?
210 points of grav destroyers produces 15 str5, -3, D3 against 3+ shots.
220 points of phosphorbots produces 18 str6, -2, ignore cover, d1 shots without double shoot mode.
The grav destroyers have 9 wounds at T5 with a 4+/6++
The phosphorbots have 12 wounds at T7 with a default 2+/4++
Until there is a FAQ, Robots in defense mode are outshot by the grav destroyers against 3+ save targets, but the Robots are dramatically tougher in either mode with the double shoot mode being double the firepower of the grav destroyers.
TLDR: grav destroyers outshoot defensive mode robots against very specific targets (terminators, primaris, T4/3+), but are always flimsier and put out significantly worse firepower than double shooting robots.
But GW won't sell me Robots and also I can't paint their guns glowy-green. =(
Yeah, I was looking at ways to convert my old destroyers into robots somehow. I couldn't figure a way that wouldn't look stupid so they are rotting on the shelf. Some of my favorite models.
If by melee you mean Dragoons and nothing else as our melee is terrible when it doesn't deepstrike/infiltrate. Then it can be good. Still Dragoons are probably better in a stygies detachment. Mars is mostly for artilery.
So Kataphrons both have a extra attack and Breachers are a Power level cheaper
Infiltrators lost an attack
Onager and Ruststalkers went up a power level
Technically the infiltrators lost that attack in the index faq.
I'm really curious to see what the consensus for mixing Mars and stygies ends up as. I can see all Mars and all stygies both being possible choices, as well as mixing the two in different ways. I basically know what I want my army to be at this point, now it's just figuring where to a lot everything.
Speaking as someone who just has one Cawl (from back during that three month stretch where he was useful to my Iron Hands) and three Imperial Knights....
How much does this effect me?
LexOdin9 wrote: Is it possible to build a competitive list with a Mars brigade detachment and a Lucius Vanguard detachment in under 2000 points?
No. But you could run a Lucius Auxilliary detachment at the -1 CP and put 20 priests in that single unit. Unlike space marine chapter tactics, there is no requirement that a forge world be a non-auxiliary detachment. So an aux detachment of a single unit can get the full benefits of a forgeworld dogma. It is kind of odd and feels like an oversight.
EDIT: or even better, run a Stygies auxiliary detachment of a single unit of 3 dragoons. Infiltrate it every game and if you get first turn then you get a first turn dragoon charge. Lols
LexOdin9 wrote: Is it possible to build a competitive list with a Mars brigade detachment and a Lucius Vanguard detachment in under 2000 points?
No. But you could run a Lucius Auxilliary detachment at the -1 CP and put 20 priests in that single unit. Unlike space marine chapter tactics, there is no requirement that a forge world be a non-auxiliary detachment. So an aux detachment of a single unit can get the full benefits of a forgeworld dogma. It is kind of odd and feels like an oversight.
EDIT: or even better, run a Stygies auxiliary detachment of a single unit of 3 dragoons. Infiltrate it every game and if you get first turn then you get a first turn dragoon charge. Lols
I love this idea. Thanks! I think I'll try it out...
SilverAlien wrote: Technically the infiltrators lost that attack in the index faq.
I'm really curious to see what the consensus for mixing Mars and stygies ends up as. I can see all Mars and all stygies both being possible choices, as well as mixing the two in different ways. I basically know what I want my army to be at this point, now it's just figuring where to a lot everything.
Also, are people still trying Lucius?
I'm thinking a Mars Spearhead with a Lucius Brigade/Battallion is how I plan to to try and do things. I haven't experimented yet but the price drop on Vanguard and Rangers help the idea.
STRATAGEMS
If your army is Battle-forged and includes any ADEPTUS MECHANICUS Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support
Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown below, meaning you can spend Command Points to activate them.
Thesehelp to reflect the unique tactics and strategies used by the Adeptus Mechanicus on the battlefield.
So as i read it wont be able to use gems with Aux.
So minimum you ll need a detachment.
I would not mix all detachments. So far as i try to make some lists the demand in points the tax and our non existent options would suggest focus in a plan.
Stygia and lucius?? Why would you do that? You got effective outrider 3* fast slots? Got a second spewrhead out of mars you want to deep strike? Battalions?
What you gonna make 2* vanguard one stygia one lucius for???. There is no point. You ll need to decide a clear plan and execute it. Wint be enough to in infiltrate 2* dragoons. No you need 3+ in one unit to get results worth sepnd cps and be point result effective. Mars has inflitrators for deep strike you can take 10 you can wrath of mars or +1 hit bla bla. No need lucius for more. Thats what i believe . If you plan to become guardmtake guard.
Mars is not just a dakka line its an expensive heavy support line. And you cant let your tanks etc 1000 points get locked. So it requires even more points for screener etc. How would you make also effective 2* dogmas more? The tax is above effective results.
So far for me my personal opinion again not trying to convince none. Working so far.
Mars brigade. Somewhat effective. Same goes for lucius prefered bigger with a plan.
2* battalions most likely Mars stygia or mars Graia. Stygia ,Graia best surviving dogmas to support mars.
2* batt 1* spearhead. Obviously mars spearhead. Batt i use for graia stygia putting inside cheap units and some i need like dragoons big unit in stygia. Lucius batt meaning lucius troops i care not.
For lucious batt i d have to take breachers etc at least 2 groups since it would be a more agressive play and simple troops wont survive it.
I think its saying if you want access you have to have more then just a Aux Detachment.
I don't think that having an aux detachment in addition to the various other types stops the model(s) in it from benefiting as long as one of those other non aux detachments is also Ad Mech.
If your army is led by an ADEPTUS MECHANICUS Warlord,
then before the battle you may give one of the following Arcana
Mechanicum to an ADEPTUS MECHANICUS CHARACTER
Battlescribe lets us take only one relic in army list? I read we can give one ewch char? Thoughts?
Quick question: Would a Stygies Dragoon fighting at night be at -3 to hit? Because thats lol-worthy. Puts an Onager at -2 as well but we can use scryer skull strategm to ignore night fighting rules or doctrina for skitarii units.
Octovol wrote: Quick question: Would a Stygies Dragoon fighting at night be at -3 to hit? Because thats lol-worthy. Puts an Onager at -2 as well but we can use scryer skull strategm to ignore night fighting rules or doctrina for skitarii units.
Nothing that I recall says they don't stack, so yea. Basically untouchable Dragoons outside of 12".
Should be yes but getting within 12" isn't going to be that hard for a screening unit. Or one moving forward to take objectives. And once your in that range you can be charged. So be careful if your enemy has powerfists or equivalents. Countercharge if you get the chance.
I played my first game with the codex rules yesterday, and my takeaway was:
1) The Datasmith is basically a waste of space at this point. I ran a unit of punchbots and used their flamers twice during the battle before using the Override stratagem as they charged in and they were perfectly happy like that the whole battle. The only thing the datasmith accomplished was to repair 2hp on one bot and whiff at plaguebearers with his powerfist the whole game.
2) Dragoons, between the -1AP buff and the amazing synergy with the Conqueror stratagem are serious business at this point.
3) I played Forgeworld Lucius (my powergamer-fu is not strong enough to stomach running multiple detachments to maximise my forgeworld benefits, I just went with the one my army's paint scheme is closest to) and I found the trait to be underwhelming due to how unpopular -1AP weaponry is at this point. 99% of weapons used by troops now are at 0AP, and it seems like when people go for heavier stuff in 8th it's almost invariably about the -3/-2AP range because that means you can hurt tanks. The stratagem and relic however allowed for some serious power plays. As expected, Corpuscarii rule the roost in that regard, but I also dropped a large 10-man of vanguard just to see what would happen and they also fared quite nicely. The relic basically just lets you bring along a TPD to your drop party for free, with the added benefit of having him on the board turn 1 to buff your backfield if you decide to wait on your big strike.
4) Between the troop buffs and the hugely increased value of CPs, I think we'll be seeing a lot more Skitarii troops in lists. the basic "five rangers and a rifle" alongside scrappier vanguard squads with plasma are what I'm mostly looking at.
Gambling unit. For 17pts per model you have a little bit overpriced glass cannon, but if you meet certain prerequisites you get underpriced murder machines. They have normal movement(6”) and decent WS(3+), okay LD(8) and two attacks with crazy good weapon. They can give mortal wounds at rate making Death Guard jealous. First giving at charge on 6 per model, and then in combat on 6+to wound d3 mortal wounds instead of normal damage. That thing can drop any tough target down, even superheavy, and if you would need to, you can repeat this electropounding with 3cp. But there is a catch. They are only T3 W1 with 6+/5++/5+++. It wouldn’t be bad if they were not so high in target priority of your opponent. And here comes twist. If you wipe unit in fighting phase, they get 3++ for the rest of the game. Suddenly you have quite sturdy unit that punches like hammer. You want to use stygies stratagem to place them in optimal range from your opponent (9”+from enemy if first, somewhere in midfield behind LOS blocking terrain if second). If you went first, GG they probably single handily won you the game, if second you need to use them carefully since they are probably in unit size of 10+ and you don't want them to evaporate under enemy fire and morale loss. You can also use Lucius startagem, but I saw to many failed 9” charges to add even more gambling to this equation.
Hordes are their weakness, since they deal multi wound damage, but not so many hits. Also, 2+ wound damage, since it almost nullifies their fnp. Never aim their first charge at something that they couldn’t destroy in first take. If you multicharge, activate them first. Vehicles, monsters, MEQ and TEQ are their preferred target. They are in destructive potential probably on par with Kastellans, but much trickier to pull of. Once they are in SuperSayan mode, they force your opponent to dedicate tremendous power to stop them from rampaging through their back line, giving rest of your army easy time. High risk, high reward unit.
So here's my view on the new relics from the Codex, I'll be expressing my advice with each of them both in a competitive and non-competitive environment. Warning, this will be really lengthy.
Spoiler:
If your army is led by an Adeptus Mechanicus warlord, then you can give one relic to an Adeptus Mechanicus Character. Keep in mind named Characters like Belisarius Cawl can't have any relics, so I'll be giving advice based on the generic Characters. You have access to one free relic, and can buy a second one for 1 CP, or a third one for 3 CP (1 Relic = Free, 2 Relics = 1 CP, 3 Relics = 3 CP).
ARCANA MECHANICUM
Universal: Pater Cog-Tooth: Replaces an Omnissian Axe, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus or an Enginseer. It gives 1 more Strength and 1 more Damage than an ordinary axe. It would be a waste on an Enginseer with his poor CC skill, but a Dominus would hit at S6 with it. It's an odd statline, because you wouldn't face that much T6 models except against Xeno armies like Aeldari flavours or Tyranids. It would probably be best against the latter, as Tyranids are more likely to face you in CC than Drukhari Raiders for example. Could be useful on a Stygies VIII Warlord with the Xenarites Studies trait, as you'd add +1 to your Wound rolls and so wound T7 models on 4+. So it's a highly specific relic that could be useful in a Xeno-heavy meta, otherwise you'd be best to leave it in the reliquary.
Anzion's Pseudogenetor: Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1D6 additional attacks with this S4 AP-1 D1 weapon. Clearly meant to deal with hordes, you could use this on a backfield character, like a Datasmith or Tech-Priest, to deal with tarpits that reach your artillery so as to dispose of them faster and get back firing earlier. Otherwise, could be used offensively against horde armies with a Tech-Priest supported by Infiltrators with Tasers for clearing the area. There are more useful relics, but it's not terrible either.
Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land: The bearer regains 1W lost earlier each turn, and allows him to reroll the die for the number of Wounds repaired when repairing a friendly Adeptus Mechanicus unit. It's a great relic, best used on a Dominus dedicated to repairing your artillery like Onagers and Robots, as it greatly enhances the lifespan of those units. Best used with the Necromechanic Warlord trait, as you'll reliably heal between 2 and 4 Wounds per turn, maybe double that if used with the Tech-Adept stratagem. Your Onager ate a Lascannon shot ? There it's fixed. The regenerating 1W per turn in just the cherry on the cake, in case Snipers noticed you you just heal between 2 and 4 Wounds with your Dominus each turn. A must-have in any army that relies on its artillery.
Uncreator Gauntlet: Replaces a Power Fist, so usable only by your Datasmith. It's a regular Power Fist that deals a Mortal wound each time you successfully wound a Vehicle with it. Not worth wasting a slot for this most of the time, the only use I could see for it is to make your Datasmith useful when accompanying Punching Bots, but it's a highly situational/useless Relic otherwise.
Phosphoenix: Replaces a Phosphor Serpenta, so usable only by a Tech-Priest Dominus. It's a S5 AP-3 D1 Ignore Cover Assault weapon. I don't see the use of this to be honest, its statline being great against TEQ but you'd still need the 3 shots to hope to bring one down so that looks like an underperforming weapon to me. Could be used with the Xenarit Studies Warlord trait to wound Xeno T6 units on a 4+ but that's a lot of adjusting to do to make it usable. Not worth a Relic Slot.
Raiment of the Technomartyrs: Gives the bearer a 6+ FnP equivalent, and each time a friendly <Forge-World> model within 6" of the bearer shoots in Overwatch and obtains a 6 to Hit, this model can make a bonus attack with the same weapon (this bonus attack can't generate more bonus attacks). The only way I see to make this item useful barring the FnP is to use it near Corpuscarii Electro-Priests to try to trigger even more Tesla shots, otherwise hoping to have one or two more shots in Overwatch won't likely change the game. Congrats if you manage to get a bonus Neutron Laser attack with it, though. I'd not recommend it, but it's a way to add more survivability to a character otherwise.
The Skull of Elder Nikola: Once per game, in your Shooting phase, the bearer can use this to deal one Mortal Wound to each enemy Vehicle unit within 2D6" on a roll of 2+. Not worth it at all, keep away from this. One mortal Wound will never help you more than the other available relics we have access to.
Omniscient Mask: Allows you to reroll failed Hit rolls in CC for friendly Skitarii units within 6" of the bearer. The only Skitarii units that would benefit this are the Sicarians and Dragoons, and they'll both be faster and most likely far away from your relic bearer. Using the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative for 1 CP is costlier but far more effective than this relic, because they'll hit on a 2+ and their Taser weapons will proc on a 5+ for Infiltrators and 4+ for Dragoons. A way to use this would be if somehow you screened your backline with Sicarians near your relic bearer and artillery and want to defend against a charge more efficiently, but it's still a situational relic that'd be best left for another one.
Forge-World specific: Graia - The Cerebral Techno-Mite: Tech-Priest Dominus only, gives +1 CP at the start of the battle if your army is Battleforged. Don't buy another relic for this obviously. Could benefit a Graia Detachment if you're hungry for CPs, but as it will be your only relic you'll have to consider if it's absolutely necessary to have this bonus CP. I'd not recommend it, seeing how easier it is to grab CPs now that we have a 52 pts HQ.
Mars - The Red Axe: Replaces an Omnissian Axe to give it an AP-5 profile instead of AP-1. It's not great at all, as your Dominus/Enginseer won't have enough Strength to reliably wound the targets that have a 2+ armour save. Avoid !
Lucius - The Solar Flare: Once per game, at the end of any of your Movement phases, the bearer can teleport instead of moving normally. Remove him from the Battlefield and replace him anywhere within 30" of his previous position and 9" away from any enemy units. Could be useful when playing Maelstrom missions when you have a card that asks your Warlord to control a certain objective for example, given there's no enemy nearby. Could be useful to save your Warlord's backside from a tedious situation and deny your opponent the Slay the Warlord.
Metalica - Adamantine Arm: Gives a Melee S*3 AP-3 D3 weapon to the relic bearer. You can only hit once each time the bearer fights in CC with it though, so hitting at S12 might be tempting but for just 3 Damage you'd best leave it where it is. Not worth taking.
Stygies VIII - The Omnissiah's Hand: The bearer rolls a die at the end of each Fight phase for each enemy unit within 1" of him, on a 4+ that unit suffers a Mortal Wound. Could be useful if your bearer gets assaulted by Characters or something, but in that case he will probably die before fighting anyway so it's not worth picking this relic.
Ryza - Weapon XCIX: Replaces a Volkite Blaster, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus only. Changes the profile to a S7 AP-1 D2 weapon with the same Mortal wound on a 6+ to Wound ability. If you run Ryza and really want a powerful weapon for your Dominus this can be nice, as it's a nice anti-vehicle weapon, but keep in mind you have access to the First-hand Field Testing Warlord trait that gives +1S and +1D to a weapon of your choice barring a relic, so you just win a AP-1 with this. It's a choice between a relic slot and a Warlord trait.
Agrippina - Eye of Lexum: At the beginning of each of your Shooting phases, pick an enemy Vehicle unit within 18" of the bearer, and all friendly Agripinaa units can reroll 1s to Wound against that target until the end of the phase. If the target is a Chaos Vehicle, you can reroll all failed to Wound rolls against that target until the end of the phase instead. Can be great when used with Onagers, when you really need to destroy a Vehicle.
Phew, there it is. Feel free to correct me if needed or offer other tactical uses for Relics. Don't hesitate to shorten it if you want to have this in the 1st post too
Aaranis wrote: So here's my view on the new relics from the Codex, I'll be expressing my advice with each of them both in a competitive and non-competitive environment. Warning, this will be really lengthy.
Spoiler:
If your army is led by an Adeptus Mechanicus warlord, then you can give one relic to an Adeptus Mechanicus Character. Keep in mind named Characters like Belisarius Cawl can't have any relics, so I'll be giving advice based on the generic Characters. You have access to one free relic, and can buy a second one for 1 CP, or a third one for 3 CP (1 Relic = Free, 2 Relics = 1 CP, 3 Relics = 3 CP).
ARCANA MECHANICUM
Universal: Pater Cog-Tooth: Replaces an Omnissian Axe, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus or an Enginseer. It gives 1 more Strength and 1 more Damage than an ordinary axe. It would be a waste on an Enginseer with his poor CC skill, but a Dominus would hit at S6 with it. It's an odd statline, because you wouldn't face that much T6 models except against Xeno armies like Aeldari flavours or Tyranids. It would probably be best against the latter, as Tyranids are more likely to face you in CC than Drukhari Raiders for example. Could be useful on a Stygies VIII Warlord with the Xenarites Studies trait, as you'd add +1 to your Wound rolls and so wound T7 models on 4+. So it's a highly specific relic that could be useful in a Xeno-heavy meta, otherwise you'd be best to leave it in the reliquary.
Anzion's Pseudogenetor: Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1D6 additional attacks with this S4 AP-1 D1 weapon. Clearly meant to deal with hordes, you could use this on a backfield character, like a Datasmith or Tech-Priest, to deal with tarpits that reach your artillery so as to dispose of them faster and get back firing earlier. Otherwise, could be used offensively against horde armies with a Tech-Priest supported by Infiltrators with Tasers for clearing the area. There are more useful relics, but it's not terrible either.
Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land: The bearer regains 1W lost earlier each turn, and allows him to reroll the die for the number of Wounds repaired when repairing a friendly Adeptus Mechanicus unit. It's a great relic, best used on a Dominus dedicated to repairing your artillery like Onagers and Robots, as it greatly enhances the lifespan of those units. Best used with the Necromechanic Warlord trait, as you'll reliably heal between 2 and 4 Wounds per turn, maybe double that if used with the Tech-Adept stratagem. Your Onager ate a Lascannon shot ? There it's fixed. The regenerating 1W per turn in just the cherry on the cake, in case Snipers noticed you you just heal between 2 and 4 Wounds with your Dominus each turn. A must-have in any army that relies on its artillery.
Uncreator Gauntlet: Replaces a Power Fist, so usable only by your Datasmith. It's a regular Power Fist that deals a Mortal wound each time you successfully wound a Vehicle with it. Not worth wasting a slot for this most of the time, the only use I could see for it is to make your Datasmith useful when accompanying Punching Bots, but it's a highly situational/useless Relic otherwise.
Phosphoenix: Replaces a Phosphor Serpenta, so usable only by a Tech-Priest Dominus. It's a S5 AP-3 D1 Ignore Cover Assault weapon. I don't see the use of this to be honest, its statline being great against TEQ but you'd still need the 3 shots to hope to bring one down so that looks like an underperforming weapon to me. Could be used with the Xenarit Studies Warlord trait to wound Xeno T6 units on a 4+ but that's a lot of adjusting to do to make it usable. Not worth a Relic Slot.
Raiment of the Technomartyrs: Gives the bearer a 6+ FnP equivalent, and each time a friendly <Forge-World> model within 6" of the bearer shoots in Overwatch and obtains a 6 to Hit, this model can make a bonus attack with the same weapon (this bonus attack can't generate more bonus attacks). The only way I see to make this item useful barring the FnP is to use it near Corpuscarii Electro-Priests to try to trigger even more Tesla shots, otherwise hoping to have one or two more shots in Overwatch won't likely change the game. Congrats if you manage to get a bonus Neutron Laser attack with it, though. I'd not recommend it, but it's a way to add more survivability to a character otherwise.
The Skull of Elder Nikola: Once per game, in your Shooting phase, the bearer can use this to deal one Mortal Wound to each enemy Vehicle unit within 2D6" on a roll of 2+. Not worth it at all, keep away from this. One mortal Wound will never help you more than the other available relics we have access to.
Omniscient Mask: Allows you to reroll failed Hit rolls in CC for friendly Skitarii units within 6" of the bearer. The only Skitarii units that would benefit this are the Sicarians and Dragoons, and they'll both be faster and most likely far away from your relic bearer. Using the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative for 1 CP is costlier but far more effective than this relic, because they'll hit on a 2+ and their Taser weapons will proc on a 5+ for Infiltrators and 4+ for Dragoons. A way to use this would be if somehow you screened your backline with Sicarians near your relic bearer and artillery and want to defend against a charge more efficiently, but it's still a situational relic that'd be best left for another one.
Forge-World specific: Graia - The Cerebral Techno-Mite: Tech-Priest Dominus only, gives +1 CP at the start of the battle if your army is Battleforged. Don't buy another relic for this obviously. Could benefit a Graia Detachment if you're hungry for CPs, but as it will be your only relic you'll have to consider if it's absolutely necessary to have this bonus CP. I'd not recommend it, seeing how easier it is to grab CPs now that we have a 52 pts HQ.
Mars - The Red Axe: Replaces an Omnissian Axe to give it an AP-5 profile instead of AP-1. It's not great at all, as your Dominus/Enginseer won't have enough Strength to reliably wound the targets that have a 2+ armour save. Avoid !
Lucius - The Solar Flare: Once per game, at the end of any of your Movement phases, the bearer can teleport instead of moving normally. Remove him from the Battlefield and replace him anywhere within 30" of his previous position and 9" away from any enemy units. Could be useful when playing Maelstrom missions when you have a card that asks your Warlord to control a certain objective for example, given there's no enemy nearby. Could be useful to save your Warlord's backside from a tedious situation and deny your opponent the Slay the Warlord.
Metalica - Adamantine Arm: Gives a Melee S*3 AP-3 D3 weapon to the relic bearer. You can only hit once each time the bearer fights in CC with it though, so hitting at S12 might be tempting but for just 3 Damage you'd best leave it where it is. Not worth taking.
Stygies VIII - The Omnissiah's Hand: The bearer rolls a die at the end of each Fight phase for each enemy unit within 1" of him, on a 4+ that unit suffers a Mortal Wound. Could be useful if your bearer gets assaulted by Characters or something, but in that case he will probably die before fighting anyway so it's not worth picking this relic.
Ryza - Weapon XCIX: Replaces a Volkite Blaster, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus only. Changes the profile to a S7 AP-1 D2 weapon with the same Mortal wound on a 6+ to Wound ability. If you run Ryza and really want a powerful weapon for your Dominus this can be nice, as it's a nice anti-vehicle weapon, but keep in mind you have access to the First-hand Field Testing Warlord trait that gives +1S and +1D to a weapon of your choice barring a relic, so you just win a AP-1 with this. It's a choice between a relic slot and a Warlord trait.
Agrippina - Eye of Lexum: At the beginning of each of your Shooting phases, pick an enemy Vehicle unit within 18" of the bearer, and all friendly Agripinaa units can reroll 1s to Wound against that target until the end of the phase. If the target is a Chaos Vehicle, you can reroll all failed to Wound rolls against that target until the end of the phase instead. Can be great when used with Onagers, when you really need to destroy a Vehicle.
Phew, there it is. Feel free to correct me if needed or offer other tactical uses for Relics. Don't hesitate to shorten it if you want to have this in the 1st post too
What the Solar Flare really allows you to do is point-drop a TPD in with your Lucius alpha strike without using a CP. Put him in his standard spot in the beginning of the battle near your onagers/shootstelans and when your Corpuscarii/Vanguard/whatever are going to drop in, scoop him up and bolster their lines with rerolls of 1 to hit.
Gitsplitta wrote: @Aaranid: By your reckoning then... there's really only one good relic... the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land. Everything else is at best... situational.
the_scotsman wrote:What the Solar Flare really allows you to do is point-drop a TPD in with your Lucius alpha strike without using a CP. Put him in his standard spot in the beginning of the battle near your onagers/shootstelans and when your Corpuscarii/Vanguard/whatever are going to drop in, scoop him up and bolster their lines with rerolls of 1 to hit.
Very true, can be used to catch up your forces without exposing your Warlord through the footslogging across the board.
Gitsplitta wrote:@Aaranid: By your reckoning then... there's really only one good relic... the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land. Everything else is at best... situational.
Reading this I was kind of triggered at first, but then I read my summary again and I have to say... Yes, there's only the Autocaduceus that strikes me as a must-have. Then there are options that benefit different playstyles and different lists, and then there are the nigh useless relics. So yes, that's my opinion on our relics. Give me another relic that is a must-have, barring the Forge-World specific ones, because they're limited by your dogmas and so can't be considered invaluable under all circumstances. I'm not saying this in a challenging way, I'm genuinely interested to see those relics under another angle. I didn't play a single game since I got my codex and I'll most likely only play Stygies VIII so all those musings are from my own theories. That's why we have this thread, to put our opinions and knowledge in common
The only other relic that comes close is reignment of the technomartyr. And even its situational, and really useless without agrapinaa as your forge world
Yeah, IMHO there are a couple half decent forgeworld specific relics. I'll very often be using my Solar Flare because my TPD has been a hit-buffer first and a repairer second. Plus, the ability to just show up 9" away does more for his damage potential than any number of +1D -1AP +1shot relic shenanigans can do! Say hello to my little friend the Eradication ray!
But unless you're playing Graia, Agripinaa, or Lucius, I don't see anything to supplant the Autocadeus.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So it seems like the lowdown is:
-Do you want to play tournaments? Pick mars. Cawl+shootbots still can't be beat.
-Do you still want a good gunline army but you still want people to play with you, and do you occasionally want to pretend you're using Tactics with the special stratagem? Stygies VII might be for you.
-Do you want to use the short-ranged shooting units to some effectiveness? You might want to try Lucius.
-Do you want to use all skitarii? Graia might be a good pick. Their relic is just as good on a simple enginseer and they have a decent trait for lots of bodies. Plenty of CPs for Doctrina Imperatives stratagems.
-Do you have a battle servitor focused list from 7th you want to just keep playing without having to spend oodles of money on the new hotness? Agripinaa is actually not that bad if you take advantage of all their stuff. none of their individual traits really stands out, but most forgeworlds between trait, stratagem, warlord and relic have one or more stinkers, and agripinaa everything is nicely usable.
Here are two first drafts of some general strategies I think all AdMech players should be aware of.
Wrathbots
Spoiler:
This strategy revolves around a specific combination of models, rules, and strategems. The concept is simple, but gives our already powerful Kastelan robots an added buff.
Forge World: Mars
Strategem(s): Wrath of Mars (2CP), Binharic Override (1CP)
Key Units:
Belisarius Cawl
4-6 Dakkastelan Datasmith [Optional]
Overview:
The “Dakkastelan” - or a Kastelan Robot configured with a trio of Heavy Phosphor blasters - is the lynchpin and ideally we want to take a larger squad for economy of CP. Each Robot puts out 9 shots in Aegis (the default) or 18 when in Protector Protocols.
Once your Robots and Cawl are in position, you either switch to Protector Protocols via a Datasmith or Binharic Override. The unit of Dakkastelans should be within Cawl’s Lord of Mars Aura. This allows all friendly Mars units to re-roll their to-hit rolls in the Shooting Phase. The volume of fire plus the increased number of hits via re-rolls means that when we use Wrath of Mars, we have a large pool of hits which will ideally translate to additional Mortal Wounds.
This simple strategy enables our already deadly Robot unit to deliver a staggering number of Mortal Wounds, giving us an answer to large threats like Magnus.
By-the-Numbers
Six Dakkastelans puts out 108 shots in Protector Protocols. On average rolls with Cawl’s Aura, this translates to roughly 80 hits. The likelihood of rolling a 6 to trigger a Mortal Wound via Wrath of Mars is 16%, meaning around 13 mortal wounds in a single round of shooting in addition to our standard damage. This is why Wrathbots will be a staple of all AdMech lists, because being able to one-round extremely tough units is an asset. It also increases our overall damage pool, meaning we can wipe out additional models from units, making this a solid strategy for knocking out must-kill horde units in addition to tough single-model units.
Goondozer
Spoiler:
This strategy is a general formation of models utilizing specific buffs. Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances under Conqueror Doctrina Imperative and the Chant of the Remorseless Fist Canticle. Due to the addition of -1 AP to the Taser Lance and the new strategem, this unit becomes our premier close-combat unit.
Overview:
This strategy is straight-forward and powerful. Forge World Stygies adds an additional layer of protection from shooting, adding to our innate -1 to-hit via Incense Cloud, for a total of -2 to-hit from shooting outside of 12”. This is a major boon to keep our unit alive so it can close in and start getting locked into combat(s). Via Clandestine Infiltration, we can position our Dragoons as close as we dare to the opponent’s units - given that we can make our normal movement of 10” and declare out charge, we do not need to be so close as to allow the enemy to move up and shoot within 12”, though. Position just where you think best via pre-measuring movements/ranges to enable a likely charge.
Each Dragoon has a Broad Spectrum Data-tether, which is a prerequisite for the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative to provide its maximum benefit, which is +2 to-hit in the Fight phase. The reason this is impressive is due to the Taser Lance triggering on a 6+, meaning under this strategem it will trigger on a 4+, leading to significantly improved chances to get the three hits instead of just one.
In addition to the strategem, we should strive to get the Chant of the Remorseless Fist activated, to allow us to maximize our hit potential via re-rolling 1’s in the Fight Phase. This gives us more chances to roll 4+ and have our single miss turn into three hits instead. With the addition of -1 AP on our weapons and the high strength of the attacks translating our increased volume of attacks into a high volume of wounds, we should be able to put out a solid amount of damage in a single round. Given the nature of our army, having a solid close-combat element can be vital for locking into place units while we address others via our artillery.
By-the-Numbers
A unit of six Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances will start with three attacks each, for a total of eighteen initial attacks. Half of these will result in a 4+, meaning 27 attacks from our exploding hits. Of the 2 or 3 misses we get via 1’s, when we re-roll via Chant, we will get an additional 1 or 2 hits - for additional chances to explode. This translates into about 30ish hits or more, meaning against most enemies we are wound on 2+, for a total of about 25 wounds at -1 AP. Even against toughness 8 models, we are doing 15 wounds. Those are the two most common scenarios for our Goondozer unit to encounter. Given our high toughness, modest wounds, and somewhat mediocre save (4+), it would likely not be prudent to engage dedicated melee units, especially those with weapons that do d3 and d6 damage. That being said, we can always do a last resort Machine Spirit's Revenge when one of our Dragoons inevitably dies - exploding automatically and causing 1 mortal wound to each unit within 3”. Not particularly deadly, but in some instances it might prove useful.
Let me know if I missed anything or if I mucked up the math or anything (because as has been established, I am awful at it).
I am currently working on getting my last Robot done and starting additional Dragoons (UGH!), plus looking to grab some more Snipetarii, just because I expect to see a load of Soup lists and I am curious to see how six Martian Snipers handle them,
rvd1ofakind wrote: If by melee you mean Dragoons and nothing else as our melee is terrible when it doesn't deepstrike/infiltrate. Then it can be good. Still Dragoons are probably better in a stygies detachment. Mars is mostly for artilery.
Not true, I've found great value in a unit of fulgurites hanging back as a counter/anti charge on stuff trying to get to my bots.
Spoiler:
ph34r wrote: Here's a quick 2000 point report from the field. Mission was 'No Mercy' which is plain kill points:
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Here are two first drafts of some general strategies I think all AdMech players should be aware of.
Wrathbots
Spoiler:
This strategy revolves around a specific combination of models, rules, and strategems. The concept is simple, but gives our already powerful Kastelan robots an added buff.
Forge World: Mars
Strategem(s): Wrath of Mars (2CP), Binharic Override (1CP)
Key Units:
Belisarius Cawl
4-6 Dakkastelan Datasmith [Optional]
Overview:
The “Dakkastelan” - or a Kastelan Robot configured with a trio of Heavy Phosphor blasters - is the lynchpin and ideally we want to take a larger squad for economy of CP. Each Robot puts out 9 shots in Aegis (the default) or 18 when in Protector Protocols.
Once your Robots and Cawl are in position, you either switch to Protector Protocols via a Datasmith or Binharic Override. The unit of Dakkastelans should be within Cawl’s Lord of Mars Aura. This allows all friendly Mars units to re-roll their to-hit rolls in the Shooting Phase. The volume of fire plus the increased number of hits via re-rolls means that when we use Wrath of Mars, we have a large pool of hits which will ideally translate to additional Mortal Wounds.
This simple strategy enables our already deadly Robot unit to deliver a staggering number of Mortal Wounds, giving us an answer to large threats like Magnus.
By-the-Numbers
Six Dakkastelans puts out 108 shots in Protector Protocols. On average rolls with Cawl’s Aura, this translates to roughly 80 hits. The likelihood of rolling a 6 to trigger a Mortal Wound via Wrath of Mars is 16%, meaning around 13 mortal wounds in a single round of shooting in addition to our standard damage. This is why Wrathbots will be a staple of all AdMech lists, because being able to one-round extremely tough units is an asset. It also increases our overall damage pool, meaning we can wipe out additional models from units, making this a solid strategy for knocking out must-kill horde units in addition to tough single-model units.
Goondozer
Spoiler:
This strategy is a general formation of models utilizing specific buffs. Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances under Conqueror Doctrina Imperative and the Chant of the Remorseless Fist Canticle. Due to the addition of -1 AP to the Taser Lance and the new strategem, this unit becomes our premier close-combat unit.
Overview:
This strategy is straight-forward and powerful. Forge World Stygies adds an additional layer of protection from shooting, adding to our innate -1 to-hit via Incense Cloud, for a total of -2 to-hit from shooting outside of 12”. This is a major boon to keep our unit alive so it can close in and start getting locked into combat(s). Via Clandestine Infiltration, we can position our Dragoons as close as we dare to the opponent’s units - given that we can make our normal movement of 10” and declare out charge, we do not need to be so close as to allow the enemy to move up and shoot within 12”, though. Position just where you think best via pre-measuring movements/ranges to enable a likely charge.
Each Dragoon has a Broad Spectrum Data-tether, which is a prerequisite for the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative to provide its maximum benefit, which is +2 to-hit in the Fight phase. The reason this is impressive is due to the Taser Lance triggering on a 6+, meaning under this strategem it will trigger on a 4+, leading to significantly improved chances to get the three hits instead of just one.
In addition to the strategem, we should strive to get the Chant of the Remorseless Fist activated, to allow us to maximize our hit potential via re-rolling 1’s in the Fight Phase. This gives us more chances to roll 4+ and have our single miss turn into three hits instead. With the addition of -1 AP on our weapons and the high strength of the attacks translating our increased volume of attacks into a high volume of wounds, we should be able to put out a solid amount of damage in a single round. Given the nature of our army, having a solid close-combat element can be vital for locking into place units while we address others via our artillery.
By-the-Numbers
A unit of six Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances will start with three attacks each, for a total of eighteen initial attacks. Half of these will result in a 4+, meaning 27 attacks from our exploding hits. Of the 2 or 3 misses we get via 1’s, when we re-roll via Chant, we will get an additional 1 or 2 hits - for additional chances to explode. This translates into about 30ish hits or more, meaning against most enemies we are wound on 2+, for a total of about 25 wounds at -1 AP. Even against toughness 8 models, we are doing 15 wounds. Those are the two most common scenarios for our Goondozer unit to encounter. Given our high toughness, modest wounds, and somewhat mediocre save (4+), it would likely not be prudent to engage dedicated melee units, especially those with weapons that do d3 and d6 damage. That being said, we can always do a last resort Machine Spirit's Revenge when one of our Dragoons inevitably dies - exploding automatically and causing 1 mortal wound to each unit within 3”. Not particularly deadly, but in some instances it might prove useful.
Let me know if I missed anything or if I mucked up the math or anything (because as has been established, I am awful at it).
I am currently working on getting my last Robot done and starting additional Dragoons (UGH!), plus looking to grab some more Snipetarii, just because I expect to see a load of Soup lists and I am curious to see how six Martian Snipers handle them,
Well-written and informative, nice work I get it that you like to invent monickers for our units but I think "Goondozer" is a horrible word, just my opinion Don't have any other ideas for a name right now though...
Well-written and informative, nice work I get it that you like to invent monickers for our units but I think "Goondozer" is a horrible word, just my opinion Don't have any other ideas for a name right now though...
Thanks!
And yea, the naming thing is a holdover from my MtG days.
Haven't been able to play with it yet, but I was messing around with the idea of running WrathBots and the Conquerors Dragoons in the same list. This is where I'm currently at.
So post-codex, how are Kataphron Destroyers looking? I still have 6 that I never put together, and they are really cool looking models.
Also, which Knight (if any) is worth including in a Superheavy Aux detachment? What I would have comes to just under 1500 points, so a Knight would nicely take me to 2k and provide a cool centerpiece model for the army.
So this is the list I'll be using tonight against orks:
Spoiler:
GREY KNIGHTS PATROL
HQ Grand master 162
Troops
10x strike squad 210
10x strike squad 210
Heavy Support
5x purgation squad (daemon hammer, 4 psilencer) 124
Spearhead mechanicus
HQ Tech priest 52
Heavy Support
4x kastelans 440
Neutronager 145
Neutronager 145
Total 1488
Agrapinaa for forge world and gate of infantry for psychic powers. Idea is deploy the onagers and kastelans apart deep strike strike squads to the enemy's rear and force them to split forces and use gate to flit around to take objectives ect. Basically it takes the strengths of both armie the weakness of grey knights being a lack of decent long range heavy options or so I'm told being supplemented by the awesome firepower of the mechanicus
Monp, slayer ect idaf... just letting you know ahead of time
If you're set on the knight the crusader is a no brainer. I've noticed there is little point in having the big CC weapon when you have the feet. More shooting the better. Better overwatch and if you get locked up simply move away and shoot, then charge.
Aaranis wrote: So here's my view on the new relics from the Codex, I'll be expressing my advice with each of them both in a competitive and non-competitive environment. Warning, this will be really lengthy.
Spoiler:
If your army is led by an Adeptus Mechanicus warlord, then you can give one relic to an Adeptus Mechanicus Character. Keep in mind named Characters like Belisarius Cawl can't have any relics, so I'll be giving advice based on the generic Characters. You have access to one free relic, and can buy a second one for 1 CP, or a third one for 3 CP (1 Relic = Free, 2 Relics = 1 CP, 3 Relics = 3 CP).
ARCANA MECHANICUM
Universal: Pater Cog-Tooth: Replaces an Omnissian Axe, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus or an Enginseer. It gives 1 more Strength and 1 more Damage than an ordinary axe. It would be a waste on an Enginseer with his poor CC skill, but a Dominus would hit at S6 with it. It's an odd statline, because you wouldn't face that much T6 models except against Xeno armies like Aeldari flavours or Tyranids. It would probably be best against the latter, as Tyranids are more likely to face you in CC than Drukhari Raiders for example. Could be useful on a Stygies VIII Warlord with the Xenarites Studies trait, as you'd add +1 to your Wound rolls and so wound T7 models on 4+. So it's a highly specific relic that could be useful in a Xeno-heavy meta, otherwise you'd be best to leave it in the reliquary.
Anzion's Pseudogenetor: Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1D6 additional attacks with this S4 AP-1 D1 weapon. Clearly meant to deal with hordes, you could use this on a backfield character, like a Datasmith or Tech-Priest, to deal with tarpits that reach your artillery so as to dispose of them faster and get back firing earlier. Otherwise, could be used offensively against horde armies with a Tech-Priest supported by Infiltrators with Tasers for clearing the area. There are more useful relics, but it's not terrible either.
Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land: The bearer regains 1W lost earlier each turn, and allows him to reroll the die for the number of Wounds repaired when repairing a friendly Adeptus Mechanicus unit. It's a great relic, best used on a Dominus dedicated to repairing your artillery like Onagers and Robots, as it greatly enhances the lifespan of those units. Best used with the Necromechanic Warlord trait, as you'll reliably heal between 2 and 4 Wounds per turn, maybe double that if used with the Tech-Adept stratagem. Your Onager ate a Lascannon shot ? There it's fixed. The regenerating 1W per turn in just the cherry on the cake, in case Snipers noticed you you just heal between 2 and 4 Wounds with your Dominus each turn. A must-have in any army that relies on its artillery.
Uncreator Gauntlet: Replaces a Power Fist, so usable only by your Datasmith. It's a regular Power Fist that deals a Mortal wound each time you successfully wound a Vehicle with it. Not worth wasting a slot for this most of the time, the only use I could see for it is to make your Datasmith useful when accompanying Punching Bots, but it's a highly situational/useless Relic otherwise.
Phosphoenix: Replaces a Phosphor Serpenta, so usable only by a Tech-Priest Dominus. It's a S5 AP-3 D1 Ignore Cover Assault weapon. I don't see the use of this to be honest, its statline being great against TEQ but you'd still need the 3 shots to hope to bring one down so that looks like an underperforming weapon to me. Could be used with the Xenarit Studies Warlord trait to wound Xeno T6 units on a 4+ but that's a lot of adjusting to do to make it usable. Not worth a Relic Slot.
Raiment of the Technomartyrs: Gives the bearer a 6+ FnP equivalent, and each time a friendly <Forge-World> model within 6" of the bearer shoots in Overwatch and obtains a 6 to Hit, this model can make a bonus attack with the same weapon (this bonus attack can't generate more bonus attacks). The only way I see to make this item useful barring the FnP is to use it near Corpuscarii Electro-Priests to try to trigger even more Tesla shots, otherwise hoping to have one or two more shots in Overwatch won't likely change the game. Congrats if you manage to get a bonus Neutron Laser attack with it, though. I'd not recommend it, but it's a way to add more survivability to a character otherwise.
The Skull of Elder Nikola: Once per game, in your Shooting phase, the bearer can use this to deal one Mortal Wound to each enemy Vehicle unit within 2D6" on a roll of 2+. Not worth it at all, keep away from this. One mortal Wound will never help you more than the other available relics we have access to.
Omniscient Mask: Allows you to reroll failed Hit rolls in CC for friendly Skitarii units within 6" of the bearer. The only Skitarii units that would benefit this are the Sicarians and Dragoons, and they'll both be faster and most likely far away from your relic bearer. Using the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative for 1 CP is costlier but far more effective than this relic, because they'll hit on a 2+ and their Taser weapons will proc on a 5+ for Infiltrators and 4+ for Dragoons. A way to use this would be if somehow you screened your backline with Sicarians near your relic bearer and artillery and want to defend against a charge more efficiently, but it's still a situational relic that'd be best left for another one.
Forge-World specific: Graia - The Cerebral Techno-Mite: Tech-Priest Dominus only, gives +1 CP at the start of the battle if your army is Battleforged. Don't buy another relic for this obviously. Could benefit a Graia Detachment if you're hungry for CPs, but as it will be your only relic you'll have to consider if it's absolutely necessary to have this bonus CP. I'd not recommend it, seeing how easier it is to grab CPs now that we have a 52 pts HQ.
Mars - The Red Axe: Replaces an Omnissian Axe to give it an AP-5 profile instead of AP-1. It's not great at all, as your Dominus/Enginseer won't have enough Strength to reliably wound the targets that have a 2+ armour save. Avoid !
Lucius - The Solar Flare: Once per game, at the end of any of your Movement phases, the bearer can teleport instead of moving normally. Remove him from the Battlefield and replace him anywhere within 30" of his previous position and 9" away from any enemy units. Could be useful when playing Maelstrom missions when you have a card that asks your Warlord to control a certain objective for example, given there's no enemy nearby. Could be useful to save your Warlord's backside from a tedious situation and deny your opponent the Slay the Warlord.
Metalica - Adamantine Arm: Gives a Melee S*3 AP-3 D3 weapon to the relic bearer. You can only hit once each time the bearer fights in CC with it though, so hitting at S12 might be tempting but for just 3 Damage you'd best leave it where it is. Not worth taking.
Stygies VIII - The Omnissiah's Hand: The bearer rolls a die at the end of each Fight phase for each enemy unit within 1" of him, on a 4+ that unit suffers a Mortal Wound. Could be useful if your bearer gets assaulted by Characters or something, but in that case he will probably die before fighting anyway so it's not worth picking this relic.
Ryza - Weapon XCIX: Replaces a Volkite Blaster, so usable by a Tech-Priest Dominus only. Changes the profile to a S7 AP-1 D2 weapon with the same Mortal wound on a 6+ to Wound ability. If you run Ryza and really want a powerful weapon for your Dominus this can be nice, as it's a nice anti-vehicle weapon, but keep in mind you have access to the First-hand Field Testing Warlord trait that gives +1S and +1D to a weapon of your choice barring a relic, so you just win a AP-1 with this. It's a choice between a relic slot and a Warlord trait.
Agrippina - Eye of Lexum: At the beginning of each of your Shooting phases, pick an enemy Vehicle unit within 18" of the bearer, and all friendly Agripinaa units can reroll 1s to Wound against that target until the end of the phase. If the target is a Chaos Vehicle, you can reroll all failed to Wound rolls against that target until the end of the phase instead. Can be great when used with Onagers, when you really need to destroy a Vehicle.
Phew, there it is. Feel free to correct me if needed or offer other tactical uses for Relics. Don't hesitate to shorten it if you want to have this in the 1st post too
I don't agree with Weapon X being usable. It loses two shots for not much of a better profile.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Here are two first drafts of some general strategies I think all AdMech players should be aware of.
Wrathbots
Spoiler:
This strategy revolves around a specific combination of models, rules, and strategems. The concept is simple, but gives our already powerful Kastelan robots an added buff.
Forge World: Mars
Strategem(s): Wrath of Mars (2CP), Binharic Override (1CP)
Key Units:
Belisarius Cawl
4-6 Dakkastelan Datasmith [Optional]
Overview:
The “Dakkastelan” - or a Kastelan Robot configured with a trio of Heavy Phosphor blasters - is the lynchpin and ideally we want to take a larger squad for economy of CP. Each Robot puts out 9 shots in Aegis (the default) or 18 when in Protector Protocols.
Once your Robots and Cawl are in position, you either switch to Protector Protocols via a Datasmith or Binharic Override. The unit of Dakkastelans should be within Cawl’s Lord of Mars Aura. This allows all friendly Mars units to re-roll their to-hit rolls in the Shooting Phase. The volume of fire plus the increased number of hits via re-rolls means that when we use Wrath of Mars, we have a large pool of hits which will ideally translate to additional Mortal Wounds.
This simple strategy enables our already deadly Robot unit to deliver a staggering number of Mortal Wounds, giving us an answer to large threats like Magnus.
By-the-Numbers
Six Dakkastelans puts out 108 shots in Protector Protocols. On average rolls with Cawl’s Aura, this translates to roughly 80 hits. The likelihood of rolling a 6 to trigger a Mortal Wound via Wrath of Mars is 16%, meaning around 13 mortal wounds in a single round of shooting in addition to our standard damage. This is why Wrathbots will be a staple of all AdMech lists, because being able to one-round extremely tough units is an asset. It also increases our overall damage pool, meaning we can wipe out additional models from units, making this a solid strategy for knocking out must-kill horde units in addition to tough single-model units.
Goondozer
Spoiler:
This strategy is a general formation of models utilizing specific buffs. Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances under Conqueror Doctrina Imperative and the Chant of the Remorseless Fist Canticle. Due to the addition of -1 AP to the Taser Lance and the new strategem, this unit becomes our premier close-combat unit.
Overview:
This strategy is straight-forward and powerful. Forge World Stygies adds an additional layer of protection from shooting, adding to our innate -1 to-hit via Incense Cloud, for a total of -2 to-hit from shooting outside of 12”. This is a major boon to keep our unit alive so it can close in and start getting locked into combat(s). Via Clandestine Infiltration, we can position our Dragoons as close as we dare to the opponent’s units - given that we can make our normal movement of 10” and declare out charge, we do not need to be so close as to allow the enemy to move up and shoot within 12”, though. Position just where you think best via pre-measuring movements/ranges to enable a likely charge.
Each Dragoon has a Broad Spectrum Data-tether, which is a prerequisite for the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative to provide its maximum benefit, which is +2 to-hit in the Fight phase. The reason this is impressive is due to the Taser Lance triggering on a 6+, meaning under this strategem it will trigger on a 4+, leading to significantly improved chances to get the three hits instead of just one.
In addition to the strategem, we should strive to get the Chant of the Remorseless Fist activated, to allow us to maximize our hit potential via re-rolling 1’s in the Fight Phase. This gives us more chances to roll 4+ and have our single miss turn into three hits instead. With the addition of -1 AP on our weapons and the high strength of the attacks translating our increased volume of attacks into a high volume of wounds, we should be able to put out a solid amount of damage in a single round. Given the nature of our army, having a solid close-combat element can be vital for locking into place units while we address others via our artillery.
By-the-Numbers
A unit of six Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances will start with three attacks each, for a total of eighteen initial attacks. Half of these will result in a 4+, meaning 27 attacks from our exploding hits. Of the 2 or 3 misses we get via 1’s, when we re-roll via Chant, we will get an additional 1 or 2 hits - for additional chances to explode. This translates into about 30ish hits or more, meaning against most enemies we are wound on 2+, for a total of about 25 wounds at -1 AP. Even against toughness 8 models, we are doing 15 wounds. Those are the two most common scenarios for our Goondozer unit to encounter. Given our high toughness, modest wounds, and somewhat mediocre save (4+), it would likely not be prudent to engage dedicated melee units, especially those with weapons that do d3 and d6 damage. That being said, we can always do a last resort Machine Spirit's Revenge when one of our Dragoons inevitably dies - exploding automatically and causing 1 mortal wound to each unit within 3”. Not particularly deadly, but in some instances it might prove useful.
Let me know if I missed anything or if I mucked up the math or anything (because as has been established, I am awful at it).
I am currently working on getting my last Robot done and starting additional Dragoons (UGH!), plus looking to grab some more Snipetarii, just because I expect to see a load of Soup lists and I am curious to see how six Martian Snipers handle them,
I would like to add a line to the goondozer strategy indicating that it can be taken as an auxiliary detachment to a Mars battalion to enable infilitration/deepstriking. This costs 2CP, but it gives a list that has 1100 points of Mars battalion a way to sneak in a Stygies 3-dragoon unit into the list without paying any HQ or troop taxes. Even if you don't infiltrate the goondozer, spending just 1 CP to bring it as an auxiliary gets it that sweet -2 to hit bonus from Stygies.
Wayniac wrote: So post-codex, how are Kataphron Destroyers looking? I still have 6 that I never put together, and they are really cool looking models.
Also, which Knight (if any) is worth including in a Superheavy Aux detachment? What I would have comes to just under 1500 points, so a Knight would nicely take me to 2k and provide a cool centerpiece model for the army.
Kataphrons still suck. Even their single gimmick strategem is mediocre, imo.
As for Knights, Crusader. Avenger/Thermal/Stormspear loadout. It is actually much improved now that the TC has gone to d6 shots.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Here are two first drafts of some general strategies I think all AdMech players should be aware of.
Wrathbots
Spoiler:
This strategy revolves around a specific combination of models, rules, and strategems. The concept is simple, but gives our already powerful Kastelan robots an added buff.
Forge World: Mars
Strategem(s): Wrath of Mars (2CP), Binharic Override (1CP)
Key Units:
Belisarius Cawl
4-6 Dakkastelan Datasmith [Optional]
Overview:
The “Dakkastelan” - or a Kastelan Robot configured with a trio of Heavy Phosphor blasters - is the lynchpin and ideally we want to take a larger squad for economy of CP. Each Robot puts out 9 shots in Aegis (the default) or 18 when in Protector Protocols.
Once your Robots and Cawl are in position, you either switch to Protector Protocols via a Datasmith or Binharic Override. The unit of Dakkastelans should be within Cawl’s Lord of Mars Aura. This allows all friendly Mars units to re-roll their to-hit rolls in the Shooting Phase. The volume of fire plus the increased number of hits via re-rolls means that when we use Wrath of Mars, we have a large pool of hits which will ideally translate to additional Mortal Wounds.
This simple strategy enables our already deadly Robot unit to deliver a staggering number of Mortal Wounds, giving us an answer to large threats like Magnus.
By-the-Numbers
Six Dakkastelans puts out 108 shots in Protector Protocols. On average rolls with Cawl’s Aura, this translates to roughly 80 hits. The likelihood of rolling a 6 to trigger a Mortal Wound via Wrath of Mars is 16%, meaning around 13 mortal wounds in a single round of shooting in addition to our standard damage. This is why Wrathbots will be a staple of all AdMech lists, because being able to one-round extremely tough units is an asset. It also increases our overall damage pool, meaning we can wipe out additional models from units, making this a solid strategy for knocking out must-kill horde units in addition to tough single-model units.
Goondozer
Spoiler:
This strategy is a general formation of models utilizing specific buffs. Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances under Conqueror Doctrina Imperative and the Chant of the Remorseless Fist Canticle. Due to the addition of -1 AP to the Taser Lance and the new strategem, this unit becomes our premier close-combat unit.
Overview:
This strategy is straight-forward and powerful. Forge World Stygies adds an additional layer of protection from shooting, adding to our innate -1 to-hit via Incense Cloud, for a total of -2 to-hit from shooting outside of 12”. This is a major boon to keep our unit alive so it can close in and start getting locked into combat(s). Via Clandestine Infiltration, we can position our Dragoons as close as we dare to the opponent’s units - given that we can make our normal movement of 10” and declare out charge, we do not need to be so close as to allow the enemy to move up and shoot within 12”, though. Position just where you think best via pre-measuring movements/ranges to enable a likely charge.
Each Dragoon has a Broad Spectrum Data-tether, which is a prerequisite for the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative to provide its maximum benefit, which is +2 to-hit in the Fight phase. The reason this is impressive is due to the Taser Lance triggering on a 6+, meaning under this strategem it will trigger on a 4+, leading to significantly improved chances to get the three hits instead of just one.
In addition to the strategem, we should strive to get the Chant of the Remorseless Fist activated, to allow us to maximize our hit potential via re-rolling 1’s in the Fight Phase. This gives us more chances to roll 4+ and have our single miss turn into three hits instead. With the addition of -1 AP on our weapons and the high strength of the attacks translating our increased volume of attacks into a high volume of wounds, we should be able to put out a solid amount of damage in a single round. Given the nature of our army, having a solid close-combat element can be vital for locking into place units while we address others via our artillery.
By-the-Numbers
A unit of six Sydonian Dragoons with Taser Lances will start with three attacks each, for a total of eighteen initial attacks. Half of these will result in a 4+, meaning 27 attacks from our exploding hits. Of the 2 or 3 misses we get via 1’s, when we re-roll via Chant, we will get an additional 1 or 2 hits - for additional chances to explode. This translates into about 30ish hits or more, meaning against most enemies we are wound on 2+, for a total of about 25 wounds at -1 AP. Even against toughness 8 models, we are doing 15 wounds. Those are the two most common scenarios for our Goondozer unit to encounter. Given our high toughness, modest wounds, and somewhat mediocre save (4+), it would likely not be prudent to engage dedicated melee units, especially those with weapons that do d3 and d6 damage. That being said, we can always do a last resort Machine Spirit's Revenge when one of our Dragoons inevitably dies - exploding automatically and causing 1 mortal wound to each unit within 3”. Not particularly deadly, but in some instances it might prove useful.
Let me know if I missed anything or if I mucked up the math or anything (because as has been established, I am awful at it).
I am currently working on getting my last Robot done and starting additional Dragoons (UGH!), plus looking to grab some more Snipetarii, just because I expect to see a load of Soup lists and I am curious to see how six Martian Snipers handle them,
I would like to add a line to the goondozer strategy indicating that it can be taken as an auxiliary detachment to a Mars battalion to enable infilitration/deepstriking. This costs 2CP, but it gives a list that has 1100 points of Mars battalion a way to sneak in a Stygies 3-dragoon unit into the list without paying any HQ or troop taxes. Even if you don't infiltrate the goondozer, spending just 1 CP to bring it as an auxiliary gets it that sweet -2 to hit bonus from Stygies.
Problem is that you can't use stratagems on auxiliary detachment. It is in the book. Basically you need patrol with HQ and rangers/vanguard at least, or outraraider with two other balistarii.
Wulfey wrote: I would like to add a line to the goondozer strategy indicating that it can be taken as an auxiliary detachment to a Mars battalion to enable infilitration/deepstriking. This costs 2CP, but it gives a list that has 1100 points of Mars battalion a way to sneak in a Stygies 3-dragoon unit into the list without paying any HQ or troop taxes. Even if you don't infiltrate the goondozer, spending just 1 CP to bring it as an auxiliary gets it that sweet -2 to hit bonus from Stygies.
Well.... now I see p96 makes it clear we can't drop Strategems on Aux Detachments. So... crap.
I've found plasma destroyers to be a significant threat unit especially when combined with robots for the Elimination Volley. My opponents typically hear D6 plasma shots that overcharge without any risk of gets hot.
Believe me, when you see your robots, and those guys hitting on 3+ and you see the difference in the number of hits you get, you'll be sold on at least one squad.
Wayniac wrote: So post-codex, how are Kataphron Destroyers looking? I still have 6 that I never put together, and they are really cool looking models.
Also, which Knight (if any) is worth including in a Superheavy Aux detachment? What I would have comes to just under 1500 points, so a Knight would nicely take me to 2k and provide a cool centerpiece model for the army.
Kataphrons still suck. Even their single gimmick strategem is mediocre, imo.
As for Knights, Crusader. Avenger/Thermal/Stormspear loadout. It is actually much improved now that the TC has gone to d6 shots.
That's a lot of points, may need to rework some stuff. Shame about the Kataphrons though, I think I'll still use them if only because I got 6 in a deal, and have no Kastelans, so since AdMech is kinda a side army I'm trying to do it relatively cheaply (but still want a knight as a centerpiece)
Wayniac wrote: So post-codex, how are Kataphron Destroyers looking? I still have 6 that I never put together, and they are really cool looking models.
Also, which Knight (if any) is worth including in a Superheavy Aux detachment? What I would have comes to just under 1500 points, so a Knight would nicely take me to 2k and provide a cool centerpiece model for the army.
Kataphrons still suck. Even their single gimmick strategem is mediocre, imo.
As for Knights, Crusader. Avenger/Thermal/Stormspear loadout. It is actually much improved now that the TC has gone to d6 shots.
That's a lot of points, may need to rework some stuff. Shame about the Kataphrons though, I think I'll still use them if only because I got 6 in a deal, and have no Kastelans, so since AdMech is kinda a side army I'm trying to do it relatively cheaply (but still want a knight as a centerpiece)
It is a lot of points, yes, but it is really the only worthwhile configuration (imo). Otherwise, you are spending like 30pt for the chainsword that might never get used, since the Feet are so good at what we need. So for 46pt more we get that TC love.
Wayniac wrote: So post-codex, how are Kataphron Destroyers looking? I still have 6 that I never put together, and they are really cool looking models.
Also, which Knight (if any) is worth including in a Superheavy Aux detachment? What I would have comes to just under 1500 points, so a Knight would nicely take me to 2k and provide a cool centerpiece model for the army.
Kataphrons still suck. Even their single gimmick strategem is mediocre, imo.
As for Knights, Crusader. Avenger/Thermal/Stormspear loadout. It is actually much improved now that the TC has gone to d6 shots.
That's a lot of points, may need to rework some stuff. Shame about the Kataphrons though, I think I'll still use them if only because I got 6 in a deal, and have no Kastelans, so since AdMech is kinda a side army I'm trying to do it relatively cheaply (but still want a knight as a centerpiece)
It is a lot of points, yes, but it is really the only worthwhile configuration (imo). Otherwise, you are spending like 30pt for the chainsword that might never get used, since the Feet are so good at what we need. So for 46pt more we get that TC love.
True. the Knight Crusader looks cool too.
What options should I give Rangers/Vanguard? My list right now was having one 5x Ranger with Arquebus and two 5x Vanguard with Plasma, not sure of what upgrades to give to the Alphas. I guess the min/max answer is "none" but I don't want to be like that.
Without the Knight Crusader I have (assuming Battlescribe is accurate):
++ ELITES
5x Infiltrators (130)
- Flechette Blaster and Taser
++ HEAVY SUPPORT
Onager Dunecrawler (140)
- Neutron Laser & Heavy Stubbre
Onager Dunecrawler (140)
- Neutron Laser & Heavy Stubber
Onager Dunecrawler (130)
- Icarus Array
By my calculations this is just under 1400 points, so I'd have enough for a Crusader and then have like 50 points left for I'm not sure what else (few more guys in the Vanguard/Ranger unit?).
Wayniac wrote: True. the Knight Crusader looks cool too.
What options should I give Rangers/Vanguard? My list right now was having one 5x Ranger with Arquebus and two 5x Vanguard with Plasma, not sure of what upgrades to give to the Alphas. I guess the min/max answer is "none" but I don't want to be like that.
Without the Knight Crusader I have (assuming Battlescribe is accurate):
++ ELITES
5x Infiltrators (130)
- Flechette Blaster and Taser
++ HEAVY SUPPORT
Onager Dunecrawler (140)
- Neutron Laser & Heavy Stubbre
Onager Dunecrawler (140)
- Neutron Laser & Heavy Stubber
Onager Dunecrawler (130)
- Icarus Array
By my calculations this is just under 1400 points, so I'd have enough for a Crusader and then have like 50 points left for I'm not sure what else (few more guys in the Vanguard/Ranger unit?).
If you don't want to be min/maxing and want to give a cool look to your Alphas the Taser goad and Arc Maul are great weapons, as in CC with Vanguards you'll be wounding T3 on 2+ so if the Tesla procs you'll be happy at your little dude bashing so many skulls by himself (happened a few times with mine). Arc pistols are great pistols too, I myself have an Alpha with Arc pistol and Arc maul (the famous Sith lord) and another with Taser Goad + Phosphor blast pistol. They're not the most efficient gear but I built them that way back in 7th and I still like them for the looks of it.
6 Robots in protector and wrath of mars with cawl neaby can take care of those Primarchs. In the event they just can't do it a dunecrawler could hopefully finish it off.
Frontline streamed Ad Mech w/ 6 Wrathbots vs Death Guard w/ Morty. I tuned in about 10 minutes after they started playing and Morty was already toast. You will have 0 problems handling them, just need to hope you play first so you can get Magnus before he charges you.
2) one arquebus is not enough either 4+ or no need. 8th is build Round focusing on a plan. So if you really want sniper 2*5 with 2 each and omnispex or dont take
3) lucius dogma not competitive if you decide not to make no other plan. Its nice you decided to play a brigade and i like it but you got no reall plan.
So either ditch the destroyers and max out in big vanguard plasma units fooslogng and obj secude or deep strike some etc. And get a plan with lots of bodies mobility shooting plasma while sniper spread all o er killing variou issues. + take breachers to increase survival and get something till the end of the fight alive.
Dont forget onagers need to be moving and get a screener as well.
Or make a plan to get at least two robots for elimination volley gem. Both with so many troops will just make an army expensive with eqch death taking chunk of points. Dont need to have tasez and pistols and special weapons to all. Some can take special wepon some vanguard alpha only taser. You investing points in units that die from even the cheapest of gums.
4) lucius dogma does not need expensive infiltrators. 130 points when you got lucius better drop a vanguard with plasma . Or a melee unit. Or even better range priests.
No robots full of destroyers and 5 man troops is the worse survival list you can make. Knight is also dakka. Yes it can push forth but atm vs a heavy cc elite army you ll be wiped round two. Nothing can hold even the knight. Either get a focus mars extreme firepower or get stygia batt. Or even graia something needs to stay alive. Some plan must co exists with knight. If enemy focus your destroyers you will loose a knight in points from round one. Knight drops gg. Two rounds 1000 points nothing else can deliver.
So to make it clear. Either str in mass many bodies all over with larger grous etc 3 x batt etc etc. Or at least elite army two knights of points worth. Destroyers no. Better take 5 onagers and move 2 troops with 2 onagers all over the place. Take 2 knights. Etc. Whatever you decide you need to increase your plan from two rounds on 4-5 and you can with more wounds or more elite options.
As always this i what i think since you really going againt any competitive talk we got in here with Mars robots dragoons priests etc .
If you are to go with a footslogging army make it so. Max units max special wepons invest in some stronger surviving untis like onagers or breachers ....
gendoikari87 wrote: Not with dragoons you aren't they both fly right over the goon squad
When screening against flying units, you have to screen just right. Leaving the right amount of space and adding the right amount of roadblocks. Force them to make at least one stop before they get to you and make sure they can never consolidate into your Robots.
That is a tight road to walk though. How big is the base on the primarchs? Also don't have the books near me what's the defensive stats on both? I know they're at least 10 wounds and have some stupid lolnope bs defenses
gendoikari87 wrote: That is a tight road to walk though. How big is the base on the primarchs? Also don't have the books near me what's the defensive stats on both? I know they're at least 10 wounds and have some stupid lolnope bs defenses
Magnus is 18W T7, he'll normally have a 3++ reroll 1's with a 6+++.
Here is the text from page 96. I think this is more ambiguous than it seems. Assume an army of 1 Mars Battalion and 1 Aux detachment.
Reading 1: if you have ANY admech detachments, then you get the strategem. I have 1 Mars Battalion, so I get the strategems and can use them on any of my models. Thus the rule exists to prevent an aux detachment by itself giving the strategems.
Reading 2: these strategems only apply to admech detachments except Aux detachment. Thus no faction strategems on units in any aux detachments ever.
If your army is Battle-forged and includes any ADEPTUS MECHANICUS Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown below, meaning you can spend Command Points to activate them. These help to reflect the unique tactics and strategies used by the Adeptus Mechanicus on the battlefield.
Wulfey wrote: Here is the text from page 96. I think this is more ambiguous than it seems. Assume an army of 1 Mars Battalion and 1 Aux detachment.
Reading 1: if you have ANY admech detachments, then you get the strategem. I have 1 Mars Battalion, so I get the strategems and can use them on any of my models. Thus the rule exists to prevent an aux detachment by itself giving the strategems.
Reading 2: these strategems only apply to admech detachments except Aux detachment. Thus no faction strategems on units in any aux detachments ever.
If your army is Battle-forged and includes any ADEPTUS MECHANICUS Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support
Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown below, meaning you can spend Command Points to activate them.
These help to reflect the unique tactics and strategies used by the Adeptus Mechanicus on the battlefield.
#1 is my reading as well. If you have any AdMech detachment, you gain access to all AdMech stratagems. However, you may only use the <Forge World> stratagems on <Forge World> units. (It is important to realize that Auxiliary Detachments do not contain any rules property that strips a unit of its <Forge World> keyword that the stratagem interacts with.)
gendoikari87 wrote: Forgot about warptime. gak. So we expecting dual primarchs for meta after guard gets hit with the nerf bat so hard they smile crooked?
They can only Warptime one of them, so just shoot that one dead.
Wulfey wrote: Here is the text from page 96. I think this is more ambiguous than it seems. Assume an army of 1 Mars Battalion and 1 Aux detachment.
Reading 1: if you have ANY admech detachments, then you get the strategem. I have 1 Mars Battalion, so I get the strategems and can use them on any of my models. Thus the rule exists to prevent an aux detachment by itself giving the strategems.
Reading 2: these strategems only apply to admech detachments except Aux detachment. Thus no faction strategems on units in any aux detachments ever.
If your army is Battle-forged and includes any ADEPTUS MECHANICUS Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support
Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown below, meaning you can spend Command Points to activate them.
These help to reflect the unique tactics and strategies used by the Adeptus Mechanicus on the battlefield.
#1 is my reading as well. If you have any AdMech detachment, you gain access to all AdMech stratagems. However, you may only use the <Forge World> stratagems on <Forge World> units. (It is important to realize that Auxiliary Detachments do not contain any rules property that strips a unit of its <Forge World> keyword that the stratagem interacts with.)
Huh. Good point. I re-read it and yea, that seems to be right. Good for those who want to do Priest Bombs.
gendoikari87 wrote: Really hope that doesn't become common it'd basically mean mars with cawl + 6+ kastelans is the only list to run
It already is the only list to run. The rest of the army is much more flexible, but the Cawl core is not. Wrathbots are our single answer to problem models like Magnus.
I only have a small ad mech force, for now, but I have allied them in with my guard base force and let me tell you something. It's such a beautiful match.
I used Stygies VIII FW rules against Tau. I had a dominus, a squad of rangers, 2 dakkastans, a datasmith, and a Icarus onager all in a ruin. I had a squad of guard bubble wrapping them. My opponent dropped in a Commander and 3 crisis suits with a total of 9 fusion blasters and 8 gun drones. Because they couldn't drop within 12" I ended up only losing 1 robot and almost the other one. But then I repaired twice with my warlord and proceeded to wipe out the entire death star. My guard tanks would have never survived ap-4 weapons. Definitely looking forward to getting my hands on some more Onagers.
Ad mech + guard is going to be like peanut butter and jelly. I'm telling you now!
Elite
Ruststalkers - Blades and Claw on Princeps, Claw and Razor on the rest
Fast Attack
Dragoon - Lance and Phosphor Serpenta
Dragoon - Lance and Phosphor Serpenta
Heavy Support
Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
Dunecrawler - Icarus Array
Lord of War
Knight Warden - Avenger Gatling, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod, Thunderstrike Gauntlet
Per Battlescribe this puts me at 1893 pts. One fairly obvious choice would be to add a unit of Fulgerites, but I am trying to cleave closer to Skitarii only. I could double the size of the Sicarians or add a second unit. The Sicarians work well with the deployment Strategem of Stygies (not as well as Fulgerites, but that's a whole different story). I have quite a bit of long range fire power, so I don't really think adding an Iron strider is all that necessary. I could fit two Enginseers and have them follow the Knight around or camp near the Onagers (which would allow me to turn the Onagers and one of the Dominus into a Spearhead).
Yea, adding the best parts of AdMech to better armies can be a net positive. I think Wrathbots really gives any Imperial army a stupid amount of Dakka.
So the frontlinegaming guys insist that the Transuranic Arquebus is not bad. I remain extremely skeptical. The only thing keeping me interested in those stinkers is Cawl's new 9" aura which makes it plausible they get their rerolls without moving. What do you guys think?
EDIT: yes, my conscript lists are dead. I guess I bring more rangers. Which is why I am bringing up the arquebuses. No idea what will happen with the rules, but a scions or elysian plasma battalion should still fill in the admech gaps.
Enough with the GK talk and the bad advice, I have GK, they're still not all that good
Which is a shame because they are gorgeous models.
Everyone noticed the mention that Conscripts are getting a change right? It's now a when and what, not an if. That is good news for us, if we have to spend less resources killing chaff units.
Enough with the GK talk and the bad advice, I have GK, they're still not all that good
Which is a shame because they are gorgeous models.
Everyone noticed the mention that Conscripts are getting a change right? It's now a when and what, not an if. That is good news for us, if we have to spend less resources killing chaff units.
They are gorgeous models Anyway, that was a good game. I'm going to get a battle report up this weekend with this list. let my buddy have time to adjust to it so it's not just a gimmick and see how it fares then. so far the mobility of the knights and the long range firepower of the admech are proving to be a potent combination. sat I lost by a few victory points because two orks were left on the table. tonight ended in victory by tabling. we'll see how it goes this weekend and report back. Gonna try to get a game with deathguard in somewhere too.
I meet this interpretation few times already and I'm wondering which one is proper.
Litany of electromancer activates at the beginning of battle round. Does that mean that it only activates once, or does it come in effect whenever something gets >=1" from my units(my unit is already in combat, someone charged me, I charged somebody, my character intervened, someone piled in to my unit, I piled in to the enemy.)
This is neither clear nor consistent with other canticles. Depending on interpretation this is either garbage or god-situational tier(for more cc focused armies.)
Wulfey, I'm bringing some. We need to take out threats like Changeling, Weirdboys and Commissars and whatnot. I am trying to fit six into a list just to ensure we can hurt characters.
Enough with the GK talk and the bad advice, I have GK, they're still not all that good
Which is a shame because they are gorgeous models.
Everyone noticed the mention that Conscripts are getting a change right? It's now a when and what, not an if. That is good news for us, if we have to spend less resources killing chaff units.
Depends the model itself. Strike Squads and Paladins are decent enough, and Purifiers cam work if you focus on them (which is why they don't work in an allied force, so we won't bring them up).
Yeah the strike squads so far have be freaking amazing. Terminators and paladins kind of acted like a giant grinding wheel but the strike squads are so nice because you get more dakka per point and you can stay mobile.
Wulfey wrote: So the frontlinegaming guys insist that the Transuranic Arquebus is not bad. I remain extremely skeptical. The only thing keeping me interested in those stinkers is Cawl's new 9" aura which makes it plausible they get their rerolls without moving. What do you guys think?
EDIT: yes, my conscript lists are dead. I guess I bring more rangers. Which is why I am bringing up the arquebuses.
No idea what will happen with the rules, but a scions or elysian plasma battalion should still fill in the admech gaps.
Honestly I still see the Arq getting good use when the new Guard codex drops. Each world is getting special orders, and more officers are going to be taken to get more orders out.
If the main fear is tanks, we still got our Onagers, and the Arqs can get their job done trying to hit the HQ.
I think the benefit of the are is that it's more reliable damage than a standard sniper rifle. Plus it can actually damage light vehicles or tougher infantry. So your enemy has to be aware. I've marched my commissars and company commanders upfield while eating 10 Ratling shots per turn without fear. But I would certainly hesitate with 2+ arqs.
Alright, so my instinct on the snipers is this. I guess there is a critical mass concern that 3 aren't really enough to guarantee a character dies, but I don't like stacking special weapons on squishy troops.
Painting up a agripinaa army, (working on getting a nice black leather effect is time comsuming), and I'm hell bent on using bog standard servitors, mine are looking great, tech thralls with converted plasma cannons bited up.
My question for all you experienced players, being new myself is how can I make it work. I KNOW it will NEVER be competive but I like 40k for fun and fluff and laughs.
So, any advice or just fun ideas welcome.
(please no "your stupid, use mars, cawl, and 50 shooty bots", I like fluffy and I like my bots punchy.)
That's neat. Not sure how all the wargear is really represented but it looks cool at least.
A lot of fine detail modeling to go, he will need the mechadendrite hive, some sort of large eradication beamer for the solar atomizer, the arc scourge whatever that actually is.
That's neat. Not sure how all the wargear is really represented but it looks cool at least.
A lot of fine detail modeling to go, he will need the mechadendrite hive, some sort of large eradication beamer for the solar atomizer, the arc scourge whatever that actually is.
I think the Arc Scourge is that main metal claw on the ground at his front. That's my guess anyway. Definitely give us the end product in this thread though!
Magos-Macrotek-Danny wrote: Painting up a agripinaa army, (working on getting a nice black leather effect is time comsuming), and I'm hell bent on using bog standard servitors, mine are looking great, tech thralls with converted plasma cannons bited up.
My question for all you experienced players, being new myself is how can I make it work. I KNOW it will NEVER be competive but I like 40k for fun and fluff and laughs.
So, any advice or just fun ideas welcome.
(please no "your stupid, use mars, cawl, and 50 shooty bots", I like fluffy and I like my bots punchy.)
The only thing strategically interesting about Agripinna is the Fresh Converts stratagem. though I'd use it with Kataphron Destroyers over the... less than ideal regular Servitors. Bringing back 3 servitors for 1 CP is weak. I'm not sure what advice I can give, the model you want to use is in the running for worst in the entire game.
I know :( I just love the lore for them and yes I do play on running 1 6 katphron squad for the 3 cp reboot servitor for the 1, I like the normal for bodyguards plasma can super everyturn reroll 1s and 4+ cuz near priest
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW ABOUT MAGNUS AND MORTARION!?!?(Well, their stats and abilities). They're the best superheavies in the entire game(super chicken likes getting banned). Every tournament is filled to the brim with them. Pretty much every chaos list has one or the other.
Lack of knowledge like that is why you cannot say that you're right and everyone else is wrong about Dragoons. That's like not knowing what conscripts/brimstones are. How about instead you give them a shot...
Triggered. I won't say anything about this anymore.
Anywho. There was a GT recently where an AdMech got 7th without Cawl and the other 2 AdMech lists with Cawl and concscripts got 20th and 24th. How's that possible.
The guy who got 7th had this list:
Trait: (OPG re-roll hit, wuond, dmg 6+ gain CPS)
Relic: (6+ ignore wounds. Additional overwatch on 6) - commented that this was terrible and did nothing
Mars Spearhead:
Dominus
4 DakKastelans 2 Icarus Dunecrawlers
528 Cheapo Knight Crusader(termal, ironstorm) - my favourite build.
Ok, so this list is all over the place weird. I don't even know where to begin. HOW DID THIS WORK. (to an extent. Still didn't get close to first place)
Spera wrote: I meet this interpretation few times already and I'm wondering which one is proper.
Litany of electromancer activates at the beginning of battle round. Does that mean that it only activates once, or does it come in effect whenever something gets >=1" from my units(my unit is already in combat, someone charged me, I charged somebody, my character intervened, someone piled in to my unit, I piled in to the enemy.)
This is neither clear nor consistent with other canticles. Depending on interpretation this is either garbage or god-situational tier(for more cc focused armies.)
I really have no clue how else to interpret the Electromancer other than "it happens when you activate it". Start it when you have a lot of dudes in combat at the start of battle round. Roll some D6s, fail to roll any 6s and cry
Ok, so this list is all over the place weird. I don't even know where to begin. HOW DID THIS WORK. (to an extent. Still didn't get close to first place)
I'm not surprised it worked. It looks just like my old army.
Basically, the strategy was to shoot out everything that could seriously threaten the Knight Crusader, then just go to town with him. Cheapo Crusader is the best Crusader. I wouldn't even bring the Ironstorm, but if he could find the points, more power to him.
My point on Snipers is to take them by pairs in a min squad with an Omnispex, always. I'd never run them any other way. And I'm considering building a second squad like that for my 2500 pts Brigade list to cover the battlefield adequately.
I think it's never a loss to bring them because contrary to regular Sniper rifles, these ones are S7 AP-2 D3 with a 60" range. If there's no character to aim for you still have long range anti-monster/tank guns. The +1 BS stratagem will prove useful as I tend to roll 2s most of the time
I really like this sniper squad, especially seeing the last glimmer of hope fading away from my opponent's eyes when I tell him his character can't have his cover save.
Lot of adoration on dakkarobots here. But in my opinion they are not competetive viable in pure AM army. You need conscripts to protects them againts alfa strike. If you touch them, they do not have fly wording = no shooting next round. They also have mediocre range (36" is not enough to control board) - combine with protector protocol, nerly no mobility. AM have no chance to protects them properly without allies (scouts, conscripts or similar units).
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW ABOUT MAGNUS AND MORTARION!?!?(Well, their stats and abilities). They're the best superheavies in the entire game(super chicken likes getting banned). Every tournament is filled to the brim with them. Pretty much every chaos list has one or the other.
Lack of knowledge like that is why you cannot say that you're right and everyone else is wrong about Dragoons. That's like not knowing what conscripts/brimstones are. How about instead you give them a shot...
Triggered. I won't say anything about this anymore.
Anywho. There was a GT recently where an AdMech got 7th without Cawl and the other 2 AdMech lists with Cawl and concscripts got 20th and 24th. How's that possible.
The guy who got 7th had this list:
Trait: (OPG re-roll hit, wuond, dmg 6+ gain CPS)
Relic: (6+ ignore wounds. Additional overwatch on 6) - commented that this was terrible and did nothing
Mars Spearhead:
Dominus
4 DakKastelans 2 Icarus Dunecrawlers
528 Cheapo Knight Crusader(termal, ironstorm) - my favourite build.
Ok, so this list is all over the place weird. I don't even know where to begin. HOW DID THIS WORK. (to an extent. Still didn't get close to first place)
I think it may be working because of two things.
1) It splits instead castling up around Cawl, so it is harder to shut down.
2) It distracts with knight, but play for points. Codex is new so people may not remember about trick with using full stats on damaged knight. It's easy to miss durning heat of tournament.
Otherwise its really hard to tell, depends greatly on what did it meet on the tables and what meta were there.
Rezolut wrote: Lot of adoration on dakkarobots here. But in my opinion they are not competetive viable in pure AM army. You need conscripts to protects them againts alfa strike. If you touch them, they do not have fly wording = no shooting next round. They also have mediocre range (36" is not enough to control board) - combine with protector protocol, nerly no mobility. AM have no chance to protects them properly without allies (scouts, conscripts or similar units).
Uh... every army in this thread has screening units to protect Kastelans. Pages upon pages of the 2.0 thread were dedicated to this.
Indeed, your list is nothing new. We discussed and tried Conscripts + Sisters/Scions/Infiltrators + Crawlers. They are a bit difficult to use, since you sort of have to commit to tabling opponents in many matchups.
Anyhow, while I have long cautioned against taking too many Kastelans, Binharic Override changes everything. The ability to kill 300-400 points in one turn of shooting is incredible. And yes, it is true that 36" is not too long. Fortunately, we have one of the best 48" anti-tank guns in the game. Of course, I still only take 4 Kastelans because I dislike putting all my eggs in one basket.
Aaranis wrote: My point on Snipers is to take them by pairs in a min squad with an Omnispex, always. I'd never run them any other way. And I'm considering building a second squad like that for my 2500 pts Brigade list to cover the battlefield adequately.
I think it's never a loss to bring them because contrary to regular Sniper rifles, these ones are S7 AP-2 D3 with a 60" range. If there's no character to aim for you still have long range anti-monster/tank guns. The +1 BS stratagem will prove useful as I tend to roll 2s most of the time
I really like this sniper squad, especially seeing the last glimmer of hope fading away from my opponent's eyes when I tell him his character can't have his cover save.
In my opinion, I don't think Arquebuses are worth running. Each pair is 57 points that could go into another HQ. Two pairs make another Kastelan. Three make another Crawler or pair of Dragoons. And I would never use a CP on two Arquebuses...
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW ABOUT MAGNUS AND MORTARION!?!?(Well, their stats and abilities). They're the best superheavies in the entire game(super chicken likes getting banned). Every tournament is filled to the brim with them. Pretty much every chaos list has one or the other.
Lack of knowledge like that is why you cannot say that you're right and everyone else is wrong about Dragoons. That's like not knowing what conscripts/brimstones are. How about instead you give them a shot...
Triggered. I won't say anything about this anymore.
Anywho. There was a GT recently where an AdMech got 7th without Cawl and the other 2 AdMech lists with Cawl and concscripts got 20th and 24th. How's that possible.
The guy who got 7th had this list:
Trait: (OPG re-roll hit, wuond, dmg 6+ gain CPS)
Relic: (6+ ignore wounds. Additional overwatch on 6) - commented that this was terrible and did nothing
Mars Spearhead:
Dominus
4 DakKastelans 2 Icarus Dunecrawlers
528 Cheapo Knight Crusader(termal, ironstorm) - my favourite build.
Ok, so this list is all over the place weird. I don't even know where to begin. HOW DID THIS WORK. (to an extent. Still didn't get close to first place)
I think it may be working because of two things.
1) It splits instead castling up around Cawl, so it is harder to shut down.
2) It distracts with knight, but play for points. Codex is new so people may not remember about trick with using full stats on damaged knight. It's easy to miss durning heat of tournament.
Otherwise its really hard to tell, depends greatly on what did it meet on the tables and what meta were there.
that'd be my guess. putting all your eggs in one corner of the map is a bad idea f however you place around the entire board (even more so with deepstrikers) you force the opponent to move away from at least some portion of your army.
Aaranis wrote: My point on Snipers is to take them by pairs in a min squad with an Omnispex, always. I'd never run them any other way. And I'm considering building a second squad like that for my 2500 pts Brigade list to cover the battlefield adequately.
I think it's never a loss to bring them because contrary to regular Sniper rifles, these ones are S7 AP-2 D3 with a 60" range. If there's no character to aim for you still have long range anti-monster/tank guns. The +1 BS stratagem will prove useful as I tend to roll 2s most of the time
I really like this sniper squad, especially seeing the last glimmer of hope fading away from my opponent's eyes when I tell him his character can't have his cover save.
In my opinion, I don't think Arquebuses are worth running. Each pair is 57 points that could go into another HQ. Two pairs make another Kastelan. Three make another Crawler or pair of Dragoons. And I would never use a CP on two Arquebuses...
I can agree on a level, i don't think arq are worth it if you are spamming them, 2 in 2*5 man squads is probably as far as I would go due to reasons stated above, however those 4 arq shots give you character hunting options at pretty long range that those extra dragoons, robots, dunecrawler cannot. The arq value is situational depending on what your opponent is using. lots of aura characters? fantastic. If not they do loose their value hard.
My view on Transuranic Arquebii are that they work on a psychological level as well as a practical level. Mathhammer isn't everything - sometimes you play the opponent. Having 2 or 3 of them with a view across the board can cause your opponent to deploy and/or play his characters suboptimally, with fear in their hearts.
In my first game with AdMech against one opponent, his Warboss was almost immediately vaporised by my sniper unit, and the next turn I put a bunch of wounds on a secondary character. Above average rolls on both... but the opponent just remembers how deadly they are. Now every time we play he feels his characters need to hide behind LOS blocking stuff or run between cover, meaning his auras aren't placed perfectly.
Pure win.
I am going to trial 5 rangers with 2 arquebii, and 10 rangers with 3 arquebii and the enhanced data-tether to give ablative wounds and help with morale issues. In Cawl's 9" buff aura. I just wish there was something that could give wound rerolls or +1 to wound.
When number of drops was critical to going first, I actually started paying 100pts for an Imperial Bunker to start a 5-man sniper unit with and 2 hq's inside, so they were incredibly hard to kill and to make 3 drops into 1. Wouldn't do that with the new Chapter Approved +1 to rolls though.
Silentz wrote: My view on Transuranic Arquebii are that they work on a psychological level as well as a practical level. Mathhammer isn't everything - sometimes you play the opponent. Having 2 or 3 of them with a view across the board can cause your opponent to deploy and/or play his characters suboptimally, with fear in their hearts.
In my first game with AdMech against one opponent, his Warboss was almost immediately vaporised by my sniper unit, and the next turn I put a bunch of wounds on a secondary character. Above average rolls on both... but the opponent just remembers how deadly they are. Now every time we play he feels his characters need to hide behind LOS blocking stuff or run between cover, meaning his auras aren't placed perfectly.
Pure win.
I am going to trial 5 rangers with 2 arquebii, and 10 rangers with 3 arquebii and the enhanced data-tether to give ablative wounds and help with morale issues. In Cawl's 9" buff aura. I just wish there was something that could give wound rerolls or +1 to wound.
When number of drops was critical to going first, I actually started paying 100pts for an Imperial Bunker to start a 5-man sniper unit with and 2 hq's inside, so they were incredibly hard to kill and to make 3 drops into 1. Wouldn't do that with the new Chapter Approved +1 to rolls though.
No experienced player will significantly change deployment if you take pot shots at his characters. Practically your entire army is artillery to begin with, so they know their best chance at winning is to bum rush you. That means most of them will be hiding in transports until they pop out to fry you anyway.
It can help to kill Weirdboyz, but you're better off with more Kastelans and Icarus Crawlers when fighting Orks.
Honestly though, if you want shock value, bring a unit of 4x Dragoons and deploy them last. That or a Knight Warden with Gauntlet and Stormspear. Or Crusader with Thermal. Anything that can threaten their backline or flank will cause them to not deploy as aggressively, which benefits you. (And once you do get your Dragoons or Knights on the field, constantly attempt to break into the rear line to clean out their artillery.)
No experienced player will significantly change deployment if you take pot shots at his characters.
Come off it. People are people not robots - they make decisions based on a wild range of emotions as well as cold logic. Otherwise the entire game of Poker wouldn't work.
Honestly though, if you want shock value, bring a unit of 4x Dragoons and deploy them last. That or a Knight Warden with Gauntlet and Stormspear. Or Crusader with Thermal.
So instead of bringing 100 pts of snipers, bring 272 points of Dragoons or 500+ points of Knight? I mean you're not wrong, but... a) you need troops for a batallion and b) you have a points limit.
Rezolut wrote: Lot of adoration on dakkarobots here. But in my opinion they are not competetive viable in pure AM army. You need conscripts to protects them againts alfa strike. If you touch them, they do not have fly wording = no shooting next round. They also have mediocre range (36" is not enough to control board) - combine with protector protocol, nerly no mobility. AM have no chance to protects them properly without allies (scouts, conscripts or similar units).
While I don't doubt that, to be competitive at the highest levels we need something better than rangers and dragoons, I think we aren't in a and position compared to other single faction armies. Stygies dragoons in particular are tough to take down at range and few armies these days pack loads of short range and melee anti tank, largely because the dominant meta involves screening units which largely negate their usage. Have a tank type unit that's almost untouchable with long range firepower act as our screen gives us a pretty decent meta advantage. If you widen your screen enough to allow for dragoons at the edge and rangers behind them, spaced to prevent an enemy consolidating from one to the other, you should be fine. That's 2-3 turns minimum.
I do think people over rely on the kastalens a bit as well, but put that on their innate fragility.
Magos-Macrotek-Danny wrote: Painting up a agripinaa army, (working on getting a nice black leather effect is time comsuming), and I'm hell bent on using bog standard servitors, mine are looking great, tech thralls with converted plasma cannons bited up.
My question for all you experienced players, being new myself is how can I make it work. I KNOW it will NEVER be competive but I like 40k for fun and fluff and laughs.
So, any advice or just fun ideas welcome.
(please no "your stupid, use mars, cawl, and 50 shooty bots", I like fluffy and I like my bots punchy.)
I m working on writting a tactic for Agripnaa and Ryza since i see many of our fellow ad mech player like it at least color/fluff wise.
I know you dont want pure competitive but i ll try to offer some depth to working strategy.
Agripnaa battalion
Dominus
Engiseer
1*3 breachers
1*3 breachers
1*3 breachers or 6 destoyers if solo agripinaa.
Or
3-6 breachers
1*10 rangers arc
1*10 arc
Good defenders obj capping and using fresh converters gem can make them immortal.
Now the list varies since the plan seem more valid if Ryza and agripinaa team up.
Use plasma specialists always on destroyers on vanguards where need. 6-9 d6 plasma shots with +1 woundroll and +1 damage. With elimination volley +1 bs and dominus reroll ones you got one of the most effective guns in game.
Both battalions could use a unit of robots. Melee robots for Ryza range for Agripinaa. To take advantage of elimination volley.
The plan here is to use both dogmas for teaming up 9 breachers(immortals) as screener to a group of destroyers and vanguard(plasma dakka) that can become one of the most effective gun with plasma specialists gem. Robots for elimination gem to be able to incrase bs when facing -1 hit enemies or if you need something really dead.
Robots can use exploding gem especially fistelans. There is also acquisition at any cost gem for breachers near obj to become immortals (relic holders). Dont forget if the entire unit does not die you can resummon it within your deplyoment zone again with agripinna gem.
This army can move all turns with no penatly.
Other valuable units for making your list.
Fortifictions this will help deploy safer and give extra options for your troops if you still want to be a static gun line.
Knights obvious take for a complete roaming army. Extreme mobility.
Neutronagers 2* can cover heavy slots if need to take solo dogmas as brigades. And always good to make them icarus if you aiming to play ryza plasma speciallists. Since plasma will be like str 9 on wounding.
Infiltrators deep strike if you go static survivng agripinaa
Snipers
Rustalker for extra +1 wound roll for extra mortals.Ryza can help melee units and you could use a good counter unit that can move and benefot from extra wounding. Can move 8 and mortal in 5+.
Thanks for reading its still wip so welcome any advice or any mitakes you spot.
It can help to kill Weirdboyz, but you're better off with more Kastelans and Icarus Crawlers when fighting Orks.
I somewhat disagree. Potshotting a Weirdboy to stop Da Jump is very important for us.
I am looking to try a list with about 4 TAs, but I am short right now and have to get them built and stuff. I am going to be behind because I won't play with unpainted models, but I will try to get them tested soon. I think they are a major asset in this character heavy edition.
Anywho. There was a GT recently where an AdMech got 7th without Cawl and the other 2 AdMech lists with Cawl and concscripts got 20th and 24th. How's that possible.
The guy who got 7th had this list:
Trait: (OPG re-roll hit, wuond, dmg 6+ gain CPS)
Relic: (6+ ignore wounds. Additional overwatch on 6) - commented that this was terrible and did nothing
So giving it more thought and talking with a friend, I may have to try something like the below. How "dirty" would this be? I play in a relaxed environment (we have no tournaments at all) so I can't go too heavy on the competitive cheese or I'll risk being labeled TFG and denied games.
I thought you were only allowed to run one odd sized squad per detachment or is that just for power level games
For Matched Play, you can take as many as you pay for and the only limit on squad size is on understrength squads (does not meet minimum required), of which you can only have one.
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Wayniac wrote: So giving it more thought and talking with a friend, I may have to try something like the below. How "dirty" would this be? I play in a relaxed environment (we have no tournaments at all) so I can't go too heavy on the competitive cheese or I'll risk being labeled TFG and denied games.
You can ditch one Datasmith. You don't even need both at this point, but one isn't bad. You don't have a good screen, so most armies that can get you locked up early will. That plus bringing subpar Kataphrons should keep you from being labelled TFG, I would hope.
Also, if you are going Mars, consider combining those Robots into one squad to maximize CP economy for Wrath of Mars use.
Good list. Though you don't have much of an anti charge mechanism. I'd run those kastelans as a single unit or units of three. Helps with overwatch which you'll need without proper screeens. Consider agrapinaa heavily for the overwatch bonus and kataphron recycling if needed. Though hat might get you labeled as tfg
Regarding Transuranic Arquebii, I've found them relatively useful for a few reasons (though I wish they were 5-10 points cheaper):
1. In a character heavy meta, managing to snipe the Changeling or a vital commissar is very helpful. TA are much stronger than other sniper rifles for this role.
2. Smart opponents will hide their characters, and some lists don't bring any at all. With S7 and -2 AP, TA double as reasonable anti-tank to take the last few wounds of that razorback your Onager didn't quite finish off.
3. The TA gives rangers a clear role - sitting on backfield objectives and adding to the artillery base. Sitting on objectives is useful in several of my match-ups where I often find myself in turns 3-5 using Cawl and Dunecrawlers more aggressively to clean up my opponent's backfield and claim midfield objectives.
If you're facing a lot of very aggressive armies, they're probably not the best use of points. But against other shooting armies like guard and most Imperial lists, they turn rangers into fodder that can actually contribute in any situation.
Adeptus mechanicus got best sniper rifle in the game par with the assasin. You cant spamm allmday about robots andmonagers howmcool they are bla bla and not take snipers. You only anti psych option versatile vs infantry and vehicles. As always the only issue is cost. 97 points for 2 arq when tou need at least 2 groups its 200 point to begin with. Thats about it. And yes they are back field deny enemy deep strike and their range of 30 support screeners. What else for a basic troop choise. The best.
Ryza's Green Stuff:
Setup
Battalion
Dominus
Enginseer
1x6-9 destroyers plasma flamer.
1x10 vanguard 3*plasma data-tether
1x10 vanguard 3* plasma data-tether
1x2 Robots.
Dakkastelans for multi dogma lists (if got other screener). Fists flamers +1 wound. For single Ryza dogma
Use overcharged plasma for destroyers side by the dominus for a 5 round plasma overcharge.Use elimination volley gem for both destroyers and dakkastelans to receive +1 hit rolls . Use plasma specialists for extreme usage of plasma both on destroyers and vanguard.
The squad of 10 Vanguard, give them an Enhanced Data-tether, and 3 Plasma Calivers. Activate the Protector Doctrina Imperative Stratagem to hit with almost all of your shots, overcharge your Plasma Calivers to S8 D2, then activate Ryza's Plasma Specialists Stratagem to give +1 to To Wound rolls and +1 damage per shot.
Finish up the list with Rustalkers to benefit from +1 wound fishing mortal wounds and icarus onager for the heavy slots.
Can work in brigade solo Ryza lists teamed up with agripinaa dogma for immortal screener breachers-high survivng units.
+
Extreme mobility. High damage
Synergy with all units.
-
High cost units making each death important.
Low survivability,
Automatically Appended Next Post: Agripinna endless Tractors
Battalion
Dominus
Enginseer
1x3-7 breachers
1x3 breachers or 1x10 vanguard arc rifles
1x3 breachers or 1x10 vanguard arc rifles or 3-6 destroyers
1x2 robots if you bring destroyers for elimination volley.
Breachers will provide an extreme screener high surviving and obj holder units.
Prefer Agripinaa as a support detachment
Using the dogma for 5+ over watch while gaining one extra attack in new codex these tractors became an overall good unit. Combined with reduced cost you can use them effectively in almost any army to provide cheap solution for high surviving unit.
Fresh converts can be used to resummons a fresh brand new unit on your deploy zone. Spending cp s according to the unit you want to bring back to full strength you can decide in each battle what you need to get back on the board from kataprhons. It’s an extreme combination with healing as you most likely won’t lose all your models inside a unit at once.
Save one last wound on your last breacher and see your enemy cry as you bring the whole unit back alive in full strength.
Acquisition at any cost gem will make your “relic” holder breachers an immortal unit. Put them in cover near an objective or use shroudpsalm with the use of the gem and you got a 1+ 5+ t5 9 wound unit holding an obj with 4 att each. Combined with any other army will provide a good screener, good range and good survival detachment. Combined with Ryza plasma spam could be good combination list.
+
Surviving
Low cost/ effectiveness
-
Low damage
Can’t stand alone
Will face issues with vs horde armies if not teamed with other dogmas
Hey all. Finally have my Admech painted and ready to rock and test out the new Codex. So far I have a limited army but have had great fun with the following list. Basically I have a little bit of everything, not committing whole heartedly to castling, but still with a gun line and some imperial guard soup for screening and psychic defence.
I know everyone is hating on the destroyers, so I suspect I should get rid of those, but I do find them to be a good troop killer.
The crusader with the TC being D6 also puts out a lot of hurt and i find much more durable with a 4+ invuln which can be consistently used having 9CPs.
Curious where you all think I should go from here! As I am nearly ready to invest in some more models. Thinking either dragoons or electro priests maybe?
LexOdin9 wrote: Here we are, the most depressing post in the thread. Depressing but true.
Yea, I am not tickled with that either. I feel GW absolutely dropped the ball on our Codex. So many rules are just all over the place in power and use that we wound up with clear winners (ex. Mars, Stygies) and losers (ex/ Metalica).
So for those of us going for pure AdMech, the diversity isn't much improved over our Index lists. A few new tricks and no one can deny Wrath is incredibly powerful, but not a major change really.
As for Allies, seems like the new Astra Militarum might prove useful. Adding to our artillery potential and maybe some new infantry screen options beyond Conscripts (which are getting nerfed, no doubt) will be good for those of us who want non-AdMech options. Curious to see if they change anything with Scions, because right now those are a nasty addition to our gunline, giving us a gnarly One-Two punch with strong artillery and precision plasma.
Competitive AdMech has really only a few gems. It limits army builds quite a bit as we struggle to pack in all the tools we need.
Most other options are either fluffy or semi-competitive at best. So really, pure AdMech will wind up being:
Wrathbots
Snipetarii (Mars) and/or Bare Rangers (Stygies)
Double or Triple Onagers
Enginseers Tax
Goondozer (Stygies)
that's a p good summary. maybe somebody will make electro-priests work, but I'm not counting on it.
I'm trying right now with Colpuscarii since they are 14pts/model they may be good infantry support. Graia and Stygies dogma push their survivability enough that they may be able to actually wander to midfield and do something. Stygies looks best so far, since gives you this much-needed flexibility. It is worth mentioning that Acquisition at any cost gives them 4++/4+++. Not bad if you ask me, and if by any chance it would drop to 1cp per use that would solidify their position.
I'm quite salty about wrathbots. On one hand its awesome that we can drop Primarchs and super heavies like they weren't even there. On other hand it is so powerful that it kills any diversity in competitive environment. I know that there will always be cookie cutter builds, but this is too much.
Reading the previews for the Mordian Iron Guard - I'm keen on adding at least a cheap Mordian batallian for extra CPs and Screening, and have the rest as Lucius for deep striking either priests or Lascannon Balistarii for board control/ensuring you can get a great anti-armour volley without having to worry about losing Balistarii to an Alpha
LexOdin9 wrote: Here we are, the most depressing post in the thread. Depressing but true.
Yea, I am not tickled with that either. I feel GW absolutely dropped the ball on our Codex. So many rules are just all over the place in power and use that we wound up with clear winners (ex. Mars, Stygies) and losers (ex/ Metalica).
So for those of us going for pure AdMech, the diversity isn't much improved over our Index lists. A few new tricks and no one can deny Wrath is incredibly powerful, but not a major change really.
As for Allies, seems like the new Astra Militarum might prove useful. Adding to our artillery potential and maybe some new infantry screen options beyond Conscripts (which are getting nerfed, no doubt) will be good for those of us who want non-AdMech options. Curious to see if they change anything with Scions, because right now those are a nasty addition to our gunline, giving us a gnarly One-Two punch with strong artillery and precision plasma.
So the thing about scions. If they nerf scions by making them less point efficient, we could run our scions as Elysian drop troopers. The plastic book isn't going to kill or affect the Resin rules for Elysians. Elysians are actually more point efficient as they are 7 points base for a 3+ BS but have 5+ armor with the same 7 point plasma rifles. I preparing for this as a possibility.
EDIT: I second the comments above on using AM as our screen. But I want to caution against Mordians since their good overawtch requires all the models to be base to base, and that makes for a short screen. Good screens are thin and long.
EDIT2: none of my IRL friends paint models. The only way I get games is monthly ITC tournaments at Game Empire and bi-annual ITC GTs. This is why I always push for hardcore strats in this thread because every game I play is hardcore.
How does Ad Mech fair in the local meta and how hard core are most of your opponents.
I think only a small percentage of people likely play in tournaments and even then a small percentage of those in tournaments are really concerned with TAC winning.
And an even smaller percentage of the percent of a percent also expect to do so while remaining in an Ad Mech pure fluff bubble vs are going to do whatever they can to win because they are competitive.
Let's be honest most of us would prefer to be pure Ad Mech because we like the lore/history/appearance/uniqueness of Ad Mech vs the other options and even tho our 4x4 truck may never see off road or a trail we still want to know it looks the part and theoretically COULD compete out there vs other options. I'm excited to see what the FAQ brings for updates. I would have liked to see more changes/new units but am happy we at least got some variety and attention. If your measuring stick for the success/appeal of Ad Mech is purely from a competitive standpoint then yes you are only going to use a handful of the tools available to us. However many other armies also only have a few options that people generally claim are "viable" if people only built those armies or were constantly chasing the meta it would be a pretty boring hobby
No experienced player will significantly change deployment if you take pot shots at his characters.
Come off it. People are people not robots - they make decisions based on a wild range of emotions as well as cold logic. Otherwise the entire game of Poker wouldn't work.
Honestly though, if you want shock value, bring a unit of 4x Dragoons and deploy them last. That or a Knight Warden with Gauntlet and Stormspear. Or Crusader with Thermal.
So instead of bringing 100 pts of snipers, bring 272 points of Dragoons or 500+ points of Knight? I mean you're not wrong, but... a) you need troops for a batallion and b) you have a points limit.
Poker is game with incomplete information. They see your hand in this game. They know their strategy. The only thing that varies is tactics, and the presence of snipers does not change the dominant tactic used against us: rush us and tie us up in CC.
Well, if you're talking about 2x5 Rangers with 2x Arquebus, it's 194 points. But to belabor the point, this is a matter of opportunity cost. Will you take snipers that probably won't make a huge difference unless you get lucky, or invest in something that will make your opponent change his entire game plan into one that you have a better chance at winning against?
It can help to kill Weirdboyz, but you're better off with more Kastelans and Icarus Crawlers when fighting Orks.
I somewhat disagree. Potshotting a Weirdboy to stop Da Jump is very important for us.
I am looking to try a list with about 4 TAs, but I am short right now and have to get them built and stuff. I am going to be behind because I won't play with unpainted models, but I will try to get them tested soon. I think they are a major asset in this character heavy edition.
I agree, but given the number of points to consistently kill Weirdboyz, on top of the fact that they can easily be hidden out of LOS and that you aren't guaranteed to go first, I feel like you miss out on a lot when the Orks actually do make Da Jump.
gendoikari87 wrote: Not sure I'd say on par with assassin. Maybe a close facsimile
In the 2.0 thread, I did the math. Rangers shoot better than Vindicares with rerolls, but are definitely less durable.
In the 2.0 thread, I did the math. Rangers shoot better than Vindicares with rerolls, but are definitely less durable.
you did factor in that the vindicares rifle always wounds on 2+ has higher AP and while does not give an automatic extra wound on a 6 it goes to a D6 instead of D3 right? also it ignores invuln saves.
or do you mean per point? per point if you're just counting the rifle and a single ranger the arq is a better buy.
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How does Ad Mech fair in the local meta and how hard core are most of your opponents.
moderate, we definately don't have any twin primarch lists going around. handful of guard a smattering of orks and and ben and jerrys 52 flavors of marine.
Let's be honest most of us would prefer to be pure Ad Mech because we like the lore/history/appearance/uniqueness of Ad Mech vs the other options
to each their own. i like the grey knights, the guard and admech, admech is my favorite but I'm more on the techpriest side than skitarii and if i can't have my warrior tech priest monks (secutors of the auxillia myrmidon) i'll add grey knights because admech of phobos are just that freaking cool.
Don't forget that the vindicare can move and fire on a 3+. The transarquebus straight up can't shoot if you move. If they could shoot on the move I could see them working in a Cawl herd. But I just can't get over that no-shoot-if-move weakness. It means that a target out of LOS is just never targetable.
Wulfey wrote: Don't forget that the vindicare can move and fire on a 3+. The transarquebus straight up can't shoot if you move. If they could shoot on the move I could see them working in a Cawl herd. But I just can't get over that no-shoot-if-move weakness. It means that a target out of LOS is just never targetable.
also the vindicare in cover is a -2 to hit. so you can't really dislodge them easy. the rifle itself will just straight up outclass the arq in everything but cost. you get 1 vindicare and 1 shot for 70 points but the arq is like 33 now with dude. but you can't just buy one guy with a rifle you have to take the squad, and calculating that gets complicated. But if you just want to compare the dudes and their guns the arq is more point efficient it's just not as reliable.
They don't have to stay in one place, they aren't rooted to their location like Dakkastelans can be, and repositioning always was a thing. We have troops that can double as snipers and semi heavy support. That is something not much other armies have.
Lets be real, you won't stop da jump with them, or any other sniper. Weird boyz will be hidden behind LOS blocking until they will send enough boyz and have to follow green tide. But you can stop them after that from casting warpath again and smites.
Sniperangers are one of the best if not The best unit of this type.
Competitive AdMech has really only a few gems. It limits army builds quite a bit as we struggle to pack in all the tools we need.
Most other options are either fluffy or semi-competitive at best. So really, pure AdMech will wind up being:
Wrathbots
Snipetarii (Mars) and/or Bare Rangers (Stygies)
Double or Triple Onagers
Enginseers Tax
Goondozer (Stygies)
Toxic kid. Your insight of the game is still to critisize others. Your answer to my opinion is what. Your epiphany of contribution once more in the forums. If we all talked like you and bulloed every single post we would be at stone age.
Inside a forums we got you acting like you own the forums and know it all. Harashed 3 people talking back personal critiseze post.
Did you even read what i wrote. You knew about datasmith?? Does even in control know? Did you knew about dragoons that suzuteo spend his time from day one about their usage? Did you knew about snipers?? And left us talking 5 pages. Or maybe you didnt see me talking about neutronagers after codex leak. Did you even saw me and suzuteo opening a talk about less Robots since they can be out played? Bla bla know nothing little parrot.wrathbots learned a word and spam clueless.snipetarii and you just wrote a word and be happy.
You know everything spam and harash forums only to say once more nothing. Answer nothing . You cqnt even contribute when the rest try to open a conversation we gotta follow your pesimishm and know it all. Why so you come around after 5 pages and tell us you knew it all. Toxic kid wont waste more time and since you already have insulted 3 people in here and you still get only a warning. Well you can have it. I care no more. Ignored already didnt talk to you no more but you just plain toxic kid. Rest already know where to find me and i will continue asnwering personal messages . I will not waste more time with this toxic em_en_oh_pee and his parrots. Had enough.if you know it all dont talk in forums.
Though these where forums and i still see people trying to talk and about statinary robots and snipers and all issues. Didnt see anyone talking like you nor pretend to know it all. You are not inside forums you are in you own little small world of know nothing. Lets all stop talking since ad mech is Competitive AdMech has really only a few gems. It limits army builds quite a bit as we struggle to pack in all the tools we need.
Most other options are either fluffy or semi-competitive at best. So really, pure AdMech will wind up being:
Wrathbots
Snipetarii (Mars) and/or Bare Rangers (Stygies)
Double or Triple Onagers
Enginseers Tax
Goondozer (Stygies)
Clueless two or triple onagers you havent even read onagers text boy. Their invu working in same forge. Just had enough. Didnt realise gotta apologise for writting my opinion. Sorry no my competitive with 4 robots not 6 with 4 neutron not 2 icarus with 4 sniper omnispex not none and for my group or 4 dragoons or even my graia vang vs your bare rangers . Not to mention detachments where i got enginseers or dominus for proper healing duties since they are forge dependant same as the rest of co-op. No kid we are far from same competitive nand no i dont have to see you harashing none no more.
In the 2.0 thread, I did the math. Rangers shoot better than Vindicares with rerolls, but are definitely less durable.
you did factor in that the vindicares rifle always wounds on 2+ has higher AP and while does not give an automatic extra wound on a 6 it goes to a D6 instead of D3 right? also it ignores invuln saves.
or do you mean per point? per point if you're just counting the rifle and a single ranger the arq is a better buy.
I compared a Vindicare to 2 Arquebuses in a 5-man Ranger squad. And yes, I did factor the auto-wound and AP, but the targets in question were Commissar and Lord Commissar. Arquebus are probably even better against the T4 6+ Weirdboyz. (But they won't be in LOS, so I doubt that's helpful.)
In the 2.0 thread, I did the math. Rangers shoot better than Vindicares with rerolls, but are definitely less durable.
you did factor in that the vindicares rifle always wounds on 2+ has higher AP and while does not give an automatic extra wound on a 6 it goes to a D6 instead of D3 right? also it ignores invuln saves.
or do you mean per point? per point if you're just counting the rifle and a single ranger the arq is a better buy.
I compared a Vindicare to 2 Arquebuses in a 5-man Ranger squad. And yes, I did factor the auto-wound and AP, but the targets in question were Commissar and Lord Commissar. Arquebus are probably even better against the T4 6+ Weirdboyz.
oh 2 arqs, yeah. What about SM characters with 4+ invulns. that's why i take the vindicares over pretty much any sniper is that invuln negation. That and they always wound and hit on a 2 so it's pretty much an auto D3 wounds a turn almost.
Run 6 as Dakka, 2 as melee. The unit can only go up to 6 and wrath of mars only affects 1 unit. That leaves the extra 2 as just kind on the side. Running 2 groups of 4 dakkabots is just less efficient than 1 unit of 6. You can some resistance to getting tied up, but even then you would have to screen them even further apart. 2 melee bots might do some damage if you pick the right targets and they can distract from the shoot bots. They aren't as point efficient as dragoons, but they are tougher.
Rejoice? Two units of four? One unit of six and give me two? find someone who runs magnus go mars and laugh as they cry.
1.If you have powergammer with Magnus in your local meta find him.
2. Let him buff his winged friend.
3. Look on all of that happening with dead face.
4. Drop anchors with castellans, drop with of mars.
5. Delete Magnus from existence
6. Drink his tears.
thats what they are for, on other hand in more friendly game environment divide them in two unit of 4- they will be harder to lock in combat, and less op.
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote: Quick Q - With the Lucius deep strike strategm, are you still confined to deep striking by the 3rd turn, or can you do so at any turn?
Yes. All reserves are destroyed at the end of round 3 regardless of where they came from.
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote: Quick Q - With the Lucius deep strike strategm, are you still confined to deep striking by the 3rd turn, or can you do so at any turn?
Yes. All reserves are destroyed at the end of round 3 regardless of where they came from.
man i remember the days when you had to roll for reserves and any deepstrikers only came in on turn 1 on a 6 or was it 5? it's been a while. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN! *waves cane about*
Wrathbots
Snipetarii (Mars) and/or Bare Rangers (Stygies)
Double or Triple Onagers
Enginseers Tax
Goondozer (Stygies)
To be fair - this is quite a few units given the tiny roster. I suspect Fulgurites have a place - but you probably have to go all in, which means you can't put 50%~ of your points into Cawl, Dakkastellans and a screen, which is heresy of the worst kind.
My main question mark with the thread is this "Goonzoder (Stygies)". Its not the Dragoons - which I think are good with the strategem - its the Stygies bit. The -2 is great, but its only out of 12" and more importantly relies on them shooting your dragoons. Which they almost certainly won't prioritise because killing Dakkastelans is more important (and easier - unless you make everything Stygies but Mars is more common).
If you do it for the infiltration that makes more sense.
Then again to be fair none of the forgeworlds really help - but I have this weird idea that Ryza's rerolling 1s to wounds in assault might be worth it (16% damage buff on 3s to wound) although that is probably just be wishful thinking.
Also I am torn on the snipers. On paper I think they are too expensive for what they do. At the same time as Codexes are released we are probably going to see more and more buffing characters, elite single model units which are basically characters and so on. I don't know about player psychology - but killing them rather than having them immune until everything else is dead is potentially valuable.
My main question mark with the thread is this "Goonzoder (Stygies)". Its not the Dragoons - which I think are good with the strategem - its the Stygies bit. The -2 is great, but its only out of 12" and more importantly relies on them shooting your dragoons. Which they almost certainly won't prioritise because killing Dakkastelans is more important (and easier - unless you make everything Stygies but Mars is more common).
If you do it for the infiltration that makes more sense.
Then again to be fair none of the forgeworlds really help - but I have this weird idea that Ryza's rerolling 1s to wounds in assault might be worth it (16% damage buff on 3s to wound) although that is probably just be wishful thinking.
Also I am torn on the snipers. On paper I think they are too expensive for what they do. At the same time as Codexes are released we are probably going to see more and more buffing characters, elite single model units which are basically characters and so on. I don't know about player psychology - but killing them rather than having them immune until everything else is dead is potentially valuable.
Stygies is clearly superior, not only due to the dogma, but especially due to the ability to infiltrate. Putting a Dragoon 9" from any unit forces your opponent to hold units in reserve or to deploy defensively, which means less units rushing your Kastelans. I mean, it is SUPER hard to contain Dragoons. Good luck screening them.
The_Savior wrote: So I guess there isn't a viable way to have all 8 Dakkastelans on the field?
I don't see why not. 8 dakkastellans will be all your anti-infantry, and then you need some amount of anti-tank and mobility. I have 4 robots but if/when I go up to 8 I would take this:
So, that's some fat firepower and some fat points sinks, the remaining piece of the puzzle is putting bodies on the field and being able to move them around, for which I nominate:
Leaves you with a scant 14 points remaining, but I think this list could be good. The list I field currently is the same as above minus 5 robots, and plus a knight and 2 earthshaker platforms (and a tarantula).
Look bud, I play the faction and have been brainstorming and formulating strategies for AdMech since 8th dropped. You can see me espousing all those strategies organically or at the recommendation of another proven player from this forum. I get you think I am rude or whatever, but that is what ignore is for. Don't gum up the discussion with posts attacking me, thanks.
The_Savior wrote: So I guess there isn't a viable way to have all 8 Dakkastelans on the field?
I don't see why not. 8 dakkastellans will be all your anti-infantry, and then you need some amount of anti-tank and mobility. I have 4 robots but if/when I go up to 8 I would take this:
So, that's some fat firepower and some fat points sinks, the remaining piece of the puzzle is putting bodies on the field and being able to move them around, for which I nominate:
Leaves you with a scant 14 points remaining, but I think this list could be good. The list I field currently is the same as above minus 5 robots, and plus a knight and 2 earthshaker platforms (and a tarantula).
That's super solid, but might not be functioning after the new Guard codex.
The_Savior wrote: So I guess there isn't a viable way to have all 8 Dakkastelans on the field?
I don't see why not. 8 dakkastellans will be all your anti-infantry, and then you need some amount of anti-tank and mobility. I have 4 robots but if/when I go up to 8 I would take this:
So, that's some fat firepower and some fat points sinks, the remaining piece of the puzzle is putting bodies on the field and being able to move them around, for which I nominate:
Leaves you with a scant 14 points remaining, but I think this list could be good. The list I field currently is the same as above minus 5 robots, and plus a knight and 2 earthshaker platforms (and a tarantula).
super solid list. That much plasma deep striking on to the board is bound to daze and confuse.
That's super solid, but might not be functioning after the new Guard codex.
The only issue the lack of screen. And one of those plasma squads is not getting the re-roll order, but that is negligible.
when you deploy high value targets to the rear you don't need the screens as much because you're literally forcing people to move away from the robots. From there protect against turn one charges blast what does come to you, stay mobile. if they do close in on the bots, you grab objectives win by victory points because they've now moved half way across the board and will have to move back under plasmagun fire. and you get to choose where the scions go, which gives you the advantage to choose optimal range
gendoikari87 wrote: when you deploy high value targets to the rear you don't need the screens as much because you're literally forcing people to move away from the robots. From there protect against turn one charges blast what does come to you, stay mobile. if they do close in on the bots, you grab objectives win by victory points because they've now moved half way across the board and will have to move back under plasmagun fire. and you get to choose where the scions go, which gives you the advantage to choose optimal range
25 Scions is not hard to kill when they are plopping down in front of your opponent's entire army. Yes, they are a great asset, but don't oversell it. We always need a screen. We never want our gunline to get assaulted. That is why the Scion list I posted prior brought Conscripts, since why not when we are already dabbling in the Imperium stuff.
gendoikari87 wrote: when you deploy high value targets to the rear you don't need the screens as much because you're literally forcing people to move away from the robots. From there protect against turn one charges blast what does come to you, stay mobile. if they do close in on the bots, you grab objectives win by victory points because they've now moved half way across the board and will have to move back under plasmagun fire. and you get to choose where the scions go, which gives you the advantage to choose optimal range
Er... no, you definitely still do need screens. Also, let's be honest, most of your plasma squads will be dead by turn 3. They're great for alpha striking, but they're not exactly known for being durable, especially given Imperium Soup matchups routinely show dozens of GEQs being cleared every turn with all the mortar and lasgun fire.
25 Scions is not hard to kill when they are plopping down in front of your opponent's entire army. Yes, they are a great asset, but don't oversell it. We always need a screen. We never want our gunline to get assaulted. That is why the Scion list I posted prior brought Conscripts, since why not when we are already dabbling in the Imperium stuff.
LexOdin9 wrote: So, does anyone know if anything related to Fires of Cyraxus has come out yet?
I hope that gives admech more competitive options against Primarch spam.
I just want the Vorax, i don't even care how good it is. models sweet
Er... no, you definitely still do need screens. Also, let's be honest, most of your plasma squads will be dead by turn 3. They're great for alpha striking, but they're not exactly known for being durable, especially given Imperium Soup matchups routinely show dozens of GEQs being cleared every turn with all the mortar and lasgun fire.
like i said, you need the AS much. and yeah scions are fragile. that's why i bring 3+ and T4 also 2 shots 24" doesn't hurt. But some conscripts never hurt anyone. at least until the nerf. then who knows what'll be best. still probably conscripts. maybe basic guard. but some deep strike always helps. and can reach the back field objectives/HVT
also seriously consider running agrapinaa, try it at least once. plot a reignment of the technomartyr behind them and you'll be hard pressed to find a more troll unit. "oh really your going to charge my robots, have fun with that" two games so far and they've eaten multiple squads in overwatch alone. just gotta make sure the transports are popped turn one.
Think the opening post is a little harsh on the dominus, but understandable if taking cawl walls or really competative lists. he still buffs our guys, though not to the godly levels of cawl... wish we had an archmagos stratagem.
Only played one game so far with the codex (lucius) and I must have had super good luck with the dice turn 1, as I managed to delete a brass scorpion and a predator in one volley with some fire to spare. (helps both blew up and took out more guys on his side... he had bad dice rolls.)
Gotta say I'm loving lucius so far. being able to protect my vanguard if i'm going second and being able to get them in effective range just makes them shine, and the extra +1 to hit rolls can be brutal when dropping plasma. the ignoring -1 to armor with shroud psalm up? amazing.
The ignore damage stratagem is great too. Cinematic, and truly game changing to have your knight have one final turn to go out in a blaze of glory.
the breachers surprised me when I played them too. again, one game and good dice rolls, but so far I got a box and hope they do well again. having just a little more anti-tank is always helpful.
Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I tried the plasma kataphrons in a fun game against tyranids:
Killed 2 carnifexes, old one eye, and a swarmlord on OVERWATCH. Did nothing in the real shooting phases. Overcharged every time and killed 5/6 myself, but it was great fun. The +1 to their hit rolls was completely useless with Cawl around though
Sledgio wrote: Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.
Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.
So anyone know what the deal is with GW removing kastelans from the online store? My friendly third party retailer has also removed them from their store...
Sledgio wrote: Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.
Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.
tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table. Even without agrapinaa a modest 4 dakkastelens nearly kills 3 suits in overwatch so unless they're throwing a six man strong unit at you they won't survive to tie anyone down
Silentz wrote: GW have been struggling to meet demand since 8th dropped. When something gets popular and people go and buy it, it quickly goes out of stock.
More will be made, but for now you probably need to shop around.
i know but they add temporarily out of stock to other items, these are just flat removed, not even there.
Sledgio wrote: Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.
Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.
tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table
No one will take subpar Kastelans with Fists in a normal list. Tailoring a a jerk move, too. So this isn't particularly good advice.
Plus, they are moving in, blasting them with Fusion, getting into combat and then bouncing out and shooting again. And don't get me started on Coldstars with their ridiculous movement.
We need to layer up just like Suzuteo said, to make sure they have as little room to get in and lock down our shooting assets as possible.
Sledgio wrote: Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.
Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.
tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table
No one will take subpar Kastelans with Fists in a normal list. Tailoring a a jerk move, too. So this isn't particularly good advice.
Plus, they are moving in, blasting them with Fusion, getting into combat and then bouncing out and shooting again. And don't get me started on Coldstars with their ridiculous movement.
We need to layer up just like Suzuteo said, to make sure they have as little room to get in and lock down our shooting assets as possible.
only the cold star and riptide can do that and at great cost. And each time they charge they're giving you a free shooting phase. 6+ to hit but that will kill crisis suits dead. Xv104s risk being brought down a profile easily in the attempt.
Need to read up on the rules cause a ghostkeel might could do it. But I need to refresh myself on how the ghosts -1 to hit thing works
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit riptide and large units of crisis suits. But your still losing a lot doing that. And if you go agrapinaa like I do crisis suits evaporate.
Though if the riptide pulls out their 3++ that turns into another story
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the Cold star needs to have them locked down or it gets eaten too. That or drones. Ablative wounds basically.
So to recap the only thing surviving kastelans overwatch is the riptide and large crisis suit units or battle suits with multiple multiple ablative wound maybe ghostkeel but I'd have to check
Sledgio wrote: Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.
Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.
tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table
No one will take subpar Kastelans with Fists in a normal list. Tailoring a a jerk move, too. So this isn't particularly good advice.
Plus, they are moving in, blasting them with Fusion, getting into combat and then bouncing out and shooting again. And don't get me started on Coldstars with their ridiculous movement.
We need to layer up just like Suzuteo said, to make sure they have as little room to get in and lock down our shooting assets as possible.
only the cold star and riptide can do that and at great cost. And each time they charge they're giving you a free shooting phase. 6+ to hit but that will kill crisis suits dead. Xv104s risk being brought down a profile easily in the attempt.
Need to read up on the rules cause a ghostkeel might could do it. But I need to refresh myself on how the ghosts -1 to hit thing works
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit riptide and large units of crisis suits. But your still losing a lot doing that. And if you go agrapinaa like I do crisis suits evaporate.
Though if the riptide pulls out their 3++ that turns into another story
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the Cold star needs to have them locked down or it gets eaten too. That or drones. Ablative wounds basically
There are a lot of variables - such as do we have LoS on that Coldstar before he bounces into our 'Bots or did they jump that Coldstar with Tac Drones in first, who can actually eat our Overwatch, or did we eat a round of Tau shooting meaning we have only four 'Bots left, making our Overwatch less ideal, etc.
That doesn't mean your original advice was good - it wasn't. Which was the point. All of us who actually play know what Tau can do - that is why Suzuteo posted his sound strategy that I concur with. We need to deny them a place to even put their models, because we don't want them bouncing around our lines locking up our shooting units. Period. We want to play the game our way, not theirs.
Also, no one is going Agripinaa. Stop trying to make fetch happen. Mars is so significantly better, most folks aren't going to bother with such a sub-par option outside of casual games.
gendoikari87 wrote: Have you played agrapinaa yet? No so the you don't know anything and can't speak about it.
No, I haven't played the sub-par option. With my limited table time, I am focused on getting a grip on the stuff worth playing, especially since my area is extremely competitive.
gendoikari87 wrote: Have you played agrapinaa yet? No so the you don't know anything and can't speak about it.
No, I haven't played the sub-par option. With my limited table time, I am focused on getting a grip on the stuff worth playing, especially since my area is extremely competitive.
understandable but you won't find new effective tactics like that. My meta is semi-competitive (with a damn arms race going on between me and this one guy that will probably end in triple knight lists) but I get At least two games in a week. Gives me chances to try things out I normally wouldn't. I really would suggest one game with agrapinaa. What do you have to lose? You win you found something new. You lose you get to come back here and yell and scream about how dumb it was
gendoikari87 wrote: Have you played agrapinaa yet? No so the you don't know anything and can't speak about it.
No, I haven't played the sub-par option. With my limited table time, I am focused on getting a grip on the stuff worth playing, especially since my area is extremely competitive.
understandable but you won't find new effective tactics like that. My meta is semi-competitive but I get At least two games in a week. Gives me chances to try things out I normally wouldn't. I really would suggest one game with agrapinaa. What do you have to lose? You win you found something new. You lose you get to come back here and yell and scream about how dumb it was
Simply put, I can evaluate it based on a decade of 40k game experience and 25 years of wargaming experience. It just isn't worth putting myself at a disadvantage, when I know that without Cawl and Wrath, I am not going to be able to do what our army does best - shoot stuff off the table. The singular benefit of Agripinaa is the FW trait of 5+ on Overwatch. The Warlord trait is bad, the Relic is bad. The strategem locks me into more subpar options because I need to run Kataphrons. So really, I am giving up offense for defense and forcing myself into bad choices to make it worthwhile. No bueno.
Cawl is too strong as a force multiplier. Wrath is too good at enabling us to stop threats long before they get to us and necessitate Overwatch. Agripinaa just doesn't do what Mars does to support our army.
You are comparing a +1 bonus to Overwatch, and an insufficient buff to a subpar unit to the following.
• -1 to hit past 12” (astoundingly good) AND deep strike.
• 2 canticles and Cawl (also astoundingly good)
• The ability to deep strike, and a token armor save buff.
• 6+ FNP on the last wound (even though this isn’t exactly a strong buff, it’s better than Agripinaa’s +1 Overwatch.
This isn't about "fun". I always have fun when I play, because I enjoy the game and my fellow gamers.
This is a Tactica thread - where we focus on tactics and strategy. When something doesn't seem viable, why talk about it beyond the original evaluation and subsequent dismissal? Nothing has changed the appeal of Agripinaa since the 'Dex hit, so why push for it when it is inferior?
When you see the previews for the upcoming Astra Militarum codex you can already see they've put way more efforts in writing it then our codex, at least that's how I feel. Just two regiments published and you can already tell how powerful the Guard will be. Glad to see conscripts getting a nerf, they should've never been able to receive orders and the Commissar aura shouldn't work on undisciplined rabble that will sooner shoot him upon seeing him blasting random people than regaining morale.
I'll finally have my first game (barring the Apocalypse) post-Codex next week (maybe even Friday) at 1850 pts, against IG most likely. Can't wait to try out the stratagems, my new Dunecrawler Icarus and such. Problem is, he'll have his codex too by the time we play so I hope it isn't THAT powerful...
gak. So I'll be running bots with 2 phosphor and incinerator or just three bots. I have been been banned from larger size units of kastelans, maximum 9 blasters
Corpuscarii are relatively cheap, not troop’s level cheap, but 14 pts/model isn’t much for power they offer and for role they are going to do. They aren’t super durable since 5+ inv and 5+ FNP is just barely better (55% vs 50%) than 4+ on 1D attacks. You can’t bump their defense by cover or Shroudpsalm, since their normal save is 6+, and T3 doesn’t help either in world where bolters are common. And you would need every bit of defense since their weapon range is only 12”. Now, their weapon is 12” assault 3 shots s5 ap0 and D1 exploding 6+ on hit rolls giving you 3 instead 1 hit AND 2 attacks in melee with the same stats. That is a lot of daka averaging with 33,(3) hits of 10 man shooting. It’s bit better than storm bolter in rapid fire range. What they lack in range, they add up to their value in melee averaging on 17,(6) hits on 10 man unit. That’s 50 hits in one round. Their role is to get in front of your gunline with vanguard, catch charges and deny your opponent from deepstriking and fast attack units, preferably holding objective at the same time. They want to do that on high power opponents, like TEQ with plasma, scions with plasma, harlequins etc bikes. Preferred unit size is 5-10, anything over that will suffer from morale rolls. Look for places with LOS blocking terrain and hold that. Only horde type troops can reliably reclaim objective from them, since other ones won't stand chance in 1v1. You could also drop them in size of 20+ with Lucius stratagem delivering nasty amounts of daka, but that may quickly backfire with morale rolls. Use with caution to sweep enemy backline objective holders on turn 2 or 3 and lock or distract artilery.
Their best Dogmas are Sygies and Graia(boost defense), then Metallica. They don't benefit from Lucius. They lack serious synergy since we don't have any way to give them +1to hit. There are few stratagems that we can use them with, mainly Wrath of mars, Acquisition at any cost, Legio teleportarium, Clandestine Infiltration and Zealous Congregation, of which three are Forge World specific. Not bad unit, but overshadowed by other that can do its job better(Sicarian Infiltrators, Dragoons) pushing priest to semi-vanguard role, even harder since codex came out. 6,5/10
Another entry from me, this time other priests. I would really like suggestions and opinions on this one. Came to my mind that we could rate every unit form 1 to 10 (1=servitors level bad, 5=Vanguard level middle ground, 10=Dakkastelans)
gendoikari87 wrote: gak. So I'll be running bots with 2 phosphor and incinerator or just three bots. I have been been banned from larger size units of kastelans, maximum 9 blasters
You've been BANNED ? What kind of lists are running around in your store that they ban a few easy-to-counter bots ? Banning a specific loadout in LGS will never work because it's possible to abuse everything and so on from every Index/Codex. Sounds like an unfun place to play D:
gendoikari87 wrote: Have you played agrapinaa yet? No so the you don't know anything and can't speak about it.
No, I haven't played the sub-par option. With my limited table time, I am focused on getting a grip on the stuff worth playing, especially since my area is extremely competitive.
understandable but you won't find new effective tactics like that. My meta is semi-competitive but I get At least two games in a week. Gives me chances to try things out I normally wouldn't. I really would suggest one game with agrapinaa. What do you have to lose? You win you found something new. You lose you get to come back here and yell and scream about how dumb it was
Simply put, I can evaluate it based on a decade of 40k game experience and 25 years of wargaming experience. It just isn't worth putting myself at a disadvantage, when I know that without Cawl and Wrath, I am not going to be able to do what our army does best - shoot stuff off the table. The singular benefit of Agripinaa is the FW trait of 5+ on Overwatch. The Warlord trait is bad, the Relic is bad. The strategem locks me into more subpar options because I need to run Kataphrons. So really, I am giving up offense for defense and forcing myself into bad choices to make it worthwhile. No bueno.
Cawl is too strong as a force multiplier. Wrath is too good at enabling us to stop threats long before they get to us and necessitate Overwatch. Agripinaa just doesn't do what Mars does to support our army.
Well how about this? I'm someone with a good amount of playtime (though maybe less than an 1/8th of the models) that has tested and concluded that the Overwatch bonus is stupid limited until Daemons and Orks get their Codices. How does that help?
Also I love Guard get their bonus and a stupid LD on top of it for Mordians. Because reasons.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also I love Guard get their bonus and a stupid LD on top of it for Mordians. Because reasons.
I feel the same, like they're spitting on us by releasing what seems to be a good codex with overpowered doctrines and orders... Like the Vostroyan one from today, they have an order that ables them to fire normally while locked in CC. And we have to use a Warlord trait to get this, and its toast if the Warlord dies.
Well how about this? I'm someone with a good amount of playtime (though maybe less than an 1/8th of the models) that has tested and concluded that the Overwatch bonus is stupid limited until Daemons and Orks get their Codices. How does that help?
Also I love Guard get their bonus and a stupid LD on top of it for Mordians. Because reasons.
Thanks, Slayer. I really expected my hunch wouldn't be far off. It is just such a non-argument. Mars and Stygies are so incredibly strong compared to the others.
And to everyone mentioning the new Guard stuff... yea. I have a feeling AdMech is going to be majorly salty after they get released, because so far nothing I have seen has been terribly bad. Well, maybe the Sentinel strategem from today, but still the Catachans seem disgusting and the Russ got a nice bump in power. C'est la vie. Our army looks way cooler!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also I love Guard get their bonus and a stupid LD on top of it for Mordians. Because reasons.
I feel the same, like they're spitting on us by releasing what seems to be a good codex with overpowered doctrines and orders... Like the Vostroyan one from today, they have an order that ables them to fire normally while locked in CC. And we have to use a Warlord trait to get this, and its toast if the Warlord dies.
maybe this is all because foc is going to be stupid powerful? Maybe? If it ever appears
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also I love Guard get their bonus and a stupid LD on top of it for Mordians. Because reasons.
I feel the same, like they're spitting on us by releasing what seems to be a good codex with overpowered doctrines and orders... Like the Vostroyan one from today, they have an order that ables them to fire normally while locked in CC. And we have to use a Warlord trait to get this, and its toast if the Warlord dies.
maybe this is all because foc is going to be stupid powerful? Maybe? If it ever appears
We'll definitely get it before I get my Vyronii decals! But that isn't saying anything at all!
I'm curious to see the changes to Tempestus, I run the contents of their Start Collecting barring the Commissars as a Vanguard Detachment with Sisters of Silence and I suppose they'll change their points values or something, there's been a massive wave of complaints against Scions so I guess if they've changed Conscripts they've changed Scions.
gendoikari87 wrote: Can you just let me dream of vorax battle automata? Just a dream?
Trust me, I want any and all reasons to field a Macrocarid and some Thanatars. But FW just keeps pushing it back (or saying nothing). Hopefully, we will get some news at the next event. And also, maybe the FW in that book will give us something new to mess with that isn't junk (like Metalica).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WrentheFaceless wrote: So settled on a 2k list I think will be a good starting point to see what does/doesnt do well with our dex
2000 (1991) points
Mars Spearhead
Cawl
Dakkabots x5
Icarus crawler x 2
Neutron crawler X1
Stygies Bat
Enginseer X2
Rangers X5 (2 arquebus, omnispex
Vangaurd X5
Vanguard X5
Fulgurite x10
Infil x 5 with stub/taser
Dragoon X3
I still believe that Fulgurites make a fantastic countercharge unit hanging around in the backfield.
I like it! And you always do have the option to put the Fulgurites out front via Infiltration if you want to diversify your T1 threats.
Corpuscarii are relatively cheap, not troop’s level cheap, but 14 pts/model isn’t much for power they offer and for role they are going to do. They aren’t super durable since 5+ inv and 5+ FNP is just barely better (55% vs 50%) than 4+ on 1D attacks. You can’t bump their defense by cover or Shroudpsalm, since their normal save is 6+, and T3 doesn’t help either in world where bolters are common. And you would need every bit of defense since their weapon range is only 12”.
Now, their weapon is 12” assault 3 s5 ap0 and D1 exploding 6+ on hit rolls giving you 3 instead 1 hit AND melee with the same stats. That is a lot of daka averaging with 33,(3) hits of 10 man shooting. It’s bit better than storm bolter in rapid fire range. What they lack in range, they add up to their value in melee averaging on 17,(6) hits on 10 man unit. That’s 50 hits in one round.
Their role is to get in front of your gunline with vanguard, catch charges and deny your opponent from deepstriking and fast attack units, preferably holding objective at the same time. They want to do that on high power opponents, like TEQ with plasma, scions with plasma, harlequins etc bikes. Preferred unit size is 5-10, anything over that will suffer from morale rolls. Look for places with LOS blocking terrain and hold that. Only horde type troops can reliably reclaim objective from them, since other ones won't stand chance in 1v1.
You could also drop them in size of 20+ with Lucius stratagem delivering nasty amounts of daka, but that may quickly backfire with morale rolls. Use with caution to sweep enemy backline objective holders on turn 2 or 3 and lock or distract artilery.
Their best Dogmas are Sygies and Graia(boost defense), then Metallica. They don't benefit from Lucius. They lack serious synergy since we don't have any way to give them +1to hit. There are few stratagems that we can use them with, mainly Wrath of mars, Acquisition at any cost, Legio teleportarium, Clandestine Infiltration and Zealous Congregation, of which three are Forge World specific.
Not bad unit, but overshadowed by other that can do its job better(Sicarian Infiltrators, Dragoons) pushing priest to semi-vanguard role, even harder since codex came out.
6/10
Another entry from me, this time other priests. I would really like suggestions and opinions on this one. Came to my mind that we could rate every unit form 1 to 10 (1=servitors level bad, 5=Vanguard level middle ground, 10=Dakkastelans)
Priests only get 2 attacks in melee, 1 less than shooting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aaranis wrote: When you see the previews for the upcoming Astra Militarum codex you can already see they've put way more efforts in writing it then our codex, at least that's how I feel. Just two regiments published and you can already tell how powerful the Guard will be. Glad to see conscripts getting a nerf, they should've never been able to receive orders and the Commissar aura shouldn't work on undisciplined rabble that will sooner shoot him upon seeing him blasting random people than regaining morale.
I'll finally have my first game (barring the Apocalypse) post-Codex next week (maybe even Friday) at 1850 pts, against IG most likely. Can't wait to try out the stratagems, my new Dunecrawler Icarus and such. Problem is, he'll have his codex too by the time we play so I hope it isn't THAT powerful...
I missed all that, have you got a source for the conscript nerf?
Corpuscarii are relatively cheap, not troop’s level cheap, but 14 pts/model isn’t much for power they offer and for role they are going to do. They aren’t super durable since 5+ inv and 5+ FNP is just barely better (55% vs 50%) than 4+ on 1D attacks. You can’t bump their defense by cover or Shroudpsalm, since their normal save is 6+, and T3 doesn’t help either in world where bolters are common. And you would need every bit of defense since their weapon range is only 12”.
Now, their weapon is 12” assault 3 s5 ap0 and D1 exploding 6+ on hit rolls giving you 3 instead 1 hit AND melee with the same stats. That is a lot of daka averaging with 33,(3) hits of 10 man shooting. It’s bit better than storm bolter in rapid fire range. What they lack in range, they add up to their value in melee averaging on 17,(6) hits on 10 man unit. That’s 50 hits in one round.
Their role is to get in front of your gunline with vanguard, catch charges and deny your opponent from deepstriking and fast attack units, preferably holding objective at the same time. They want to do that on high power opponents, like TEQ with plasma, scions with plasma, harlequins etc bikes. Preferred unit size is 5-10, anything over that will suffer from morale rolls. Look for places with LOS blocking terrain and hold that. Only horde type troops can reliably reclaim objective from them, since other ones won't stand chance in 1v1.
You could also drop them in size of 20+ with Lucius stratagem delivering nasty amounts of daka, but that may quickly backfire with morale rolls. Use with caution to sweep enemy backline objective holders on turn 2 or 3 and lock or distract artilery.
Their best Dogmas are Sygies and Graia(boost defense), then Metallica. They don't benefit from Lucius. They lack serious synergy since we don't have any way to give them +1to hit. There are few stratagems that we can use them with, mainly Wrath of mars, Acquisition at any cost, Legio teleportarium, Clandestine Infiltration and Zealous Congregation, of which three are Forge World specific.
Not bad unit, but overshadowed by other that can do its job better(Sicarian Infiltrators, Dragoons) pushing priest to semi-vanguard role, even harder since codex came out.
6/10
Another entry from me, this time other priests. I would really like suggestions and opinions on this one. Came to my mind that we could rate every unit form 1 to 10 (1=servitors level bad, 5=Vanguard level middle ground, 10=Dakkastelans)
Priests only get 2 attacks in melee, 1 less than shooting.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also I love Guard get their bonus and a stupid LD on top of it for Mordians. Because reasons.
I feel the same, like they're spitting on us by releasing what seems to be a good codex with overpowered doctrines and orders... Like the Vostroyan one from today, they have an order that ables them to fire normally while locked in CC. And we have to use a Warlord trait to get this, and its toast if the Warlord dies.
I think their infantry are all getting point increases so that's gonna help us at least.
I am more concerned with Catachan vehicles getting to rerolling their random shots. That is going to make Catachan forgeworld artillery batteries even more overpowered than they are. 80 points for a basilisk platform that does d6 shots str9, -2, d3 damage shots already gets to roll two dice and pick the highest for the d6. A future catachen one will get to reroll one of the two dice. That is 3 bites at the d6 apple.
Wulfey wrote: I am more concerned with Catachan vehicles getting to rerolling their random shots. That is going to make Catachan forgeworld artillery batteries even more overpowered than they are. 80 points for a basilisk platform that does d6 shots str9, -2, d3 damage shots already gets to roll two dice and pick the highest for the d6. A future catachen one will get to reroll one of the two dice. That is 3 bites at the d6 apple.
We do anti-infantry well. Maybe we can add that sort of thing to our gunline and toss some cheap Catachans in front of our lines. Who knows. I likely won't branch out unless I do a custom Guard army akin to the ones they showed the other day. I did sell my Cadians a while ago, because I had no want to paint them, but some of those FW pieces are really rad and might get me interested.
Wulfey wrote: I am more concerned with Catachan vehicles getting to rerolling their random shots. That is going to make Catachan forgeworld artillery batteries even more overpowered than they are. 80 points for a basilisk platform that does d6 shots str9, -2, d3 damage shots already gets to roll two dice and pick the highest for the d6. A future catachen one will get to reroll one of the two dice. That is 3 bites at the d6 apple.
We do anti-infantry well. Maybe we can add that sort of thing to our gunline and toss some cheap Catachans in front of our lines. Who knows. I likely won't branch out unless I do a custom Guard army akin to the ones they showed the other day. I did sell my Cadians a while ago, because I had no want to paint them, but some of those FW pieces are really rad and might get me interested.
Someone at my FLGS has like 6-9 Long Tom Toys from Ebay (they aren't even models and there is zero paint). He passes these things around to his friends to serve as proxies for the 6-9 forgeworld basilisks. It is complete cancer. They get put down out of LOS behind a piece of terrain and throw out the most point efficient str9 shooting in the game while at the same time being completely post-Hobby stand ins.
EDIT: I get why they use the toys. The forgeworld basilisk platforms aren't even made and the carriage batterys are like $100 for an 80 point model. But using toys as proxies and having absolutely insane rules always gets my goat.
Wulfey wrote: I am more concerned with Catachan vehicles getting to rerolling their random shots. That is going to make Catachan forgeworld artillery batteries even more overpowered than they are. 80 points for a basilisk platform that does d6 shots str9, -2, d3 damage shots already gets to roll two dice and pick the highest for the d6. A future catachen one will get to reroll one of the two dice. That is 3 bites at the d6 apple.
We do anti-infantry well. Maybe we can add that sort of thing to our gunline and toss some cheap Catachans in front of our lines. Who knows. I likely won't branch out unless I do a custom Guard army akin to the ones they showed the other day. I did sell my Cadians a while ago, because I had no want to paint them, but some of those FW pieces are really rad and might get me interested.
Someone at my FLGS has like 6-9 Long Tom Toys from Ebay (they aren't even models and there is zero paint). He passes these things around to his friends to serve as proxies for the 6-9 forgeworld basilisks. It is complete cancer. They get put down out of LOS behind a piece of terrain and throw out the most point efficient str9 shooting in the game while at the same time being completely post-Hobby stand ins.
EDIT: I get why they use the toys. The forgeworld basilisk platforms aren't even made and the carriage batterys are like $100 for an 80 point model. But using toys as proxies and having absolutely insane rules always gets my goat.
The Imperial FW stuff never really bothered me all that much. The biggest offender (IMO) was Traitor Guard back in 7th ed. I don't know if they're still painful to fight in this edition.
I was checking out the front page for updated tactics. Are we sure Wrath of Mars lasts for whole phase? Its not 2x shots per profile, its the unit gets to shoot again, meaning they do their round of shooting, and then they do it again. The strat doesent really say just for that attack though but it doesent say they get that bonus til end of the phase?
str00dles1 wrote: I was checking out the front page for updated tactics. Are we sure Wrath of Mars lasts for whole phase? Its not 2x shots per profile, its the unit gets to shoot again, meaning they do their round of shooting, and then they do it again. The strat doesent really say just for that attack though but it doesent say they get that bonus til end of the phase?
They fixed the wording on the Protector Protocols. It is now 2x shots.
EDIT (for citation):
pg82, AdMech Codex "..you can double the number of shots it makes with each of its ranged weapons - i.e., the heavy phosphor blaster's Type becomes Heavy 6..."
str00dles1 wrote: I was checking out the front page for updated tactics. Are we sure Wrath of Mars lasts for whole phase? Its not 2x shots per profile, its the unit gets to shoot again, meaning they do their round of shooting, and then they do it again. The strat doesent really say just for that attack though but it doesent say they get that bonus til end of the phase?
They fixed the wording on the Protector Protocols. It is now 2x shots.
EDIT (for citation):
pg82, AdMech Codex
"..you can double the number of shots it makes with each of its ranged weapons - i.e., the heavy phosphor blaster's Type becomes Heavy 6..."
Hmm. Seems BattleScribe is lying to me. I'll have to look into the codex tonight and fix my list up. Thank you for the heads up!
So I added the second stubbers to the onagers, and the freed up points let me give omnispex to my rangers. There's probably a better use for 21 points, but I don't know what it is. Sitting at 1497/1500
gendoikari87 wrote: tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table. Even without agrapinaa a modest 4 dakkastelens nearly kills 3 suits in overwatch so unless they're throwing a six man strong unit at you they won't survive to tie anyone down
You still seem to underestimate the importance of denying an enemy the best usage of their units.
Kastelans have a crushing weakness in that once you root them, they cannot move. Any decent Tau player knows how to exploit it. Move Commanders in, shoot whatever guns they have, and charge the Kastelans. Sure, there's overwatch, but doing 6 wounds to a T5 3+ on a natural 6 roll is tough. Anyhow, they will eventually get into CC. Once this happens, you're screwed. You cannot shoot with your Kastelans. You cannot fall back with your Kastelans. You cannot shoot the Commander tying your Kastelan up in CC. The next turn, they fall back and shoot. Another Commander charges your Kastelans.
I actually don't see more than a few Fusion Blasters on the table in a Tau matchup, and those guns are going to be going after your Icarus Crawlers, which burst Battlesuits like pinatas. Most Battlesuits are packing Burst Cannons because of the prevalence of horde armies.
I got robots numbers 5 and 6 in the mail today. I bought them in bits from ebay. Came out to $35 shipped for both (torsos, legs, arms, guns). I omitted the rear reactor and gun bits since I can recycle my knight's stubbers and other pieces to convert those.
Working on a 75 PL list for an impromptu game tomorrow, I have the option of 4 Robots, 2 Dragoons, and 2 Dunecrawlers, or 2 Robots, 4 Dragoons, and 3 Dunecrawlers. Playing vs Tau. What do you guys think?
I ran four melee robots today. And on turn two I was able to get them into the charge. They were on Ageis as I was being pelted by Lazcannons and 1ks. All four got into melee, and I gak you not, everyone one of them missed. Twice. They killed about 4 1ks before being blown off.
Tsol wrote: I ran four melee robots today. And on turn two I was able to get them into the charge. They were on Ageis as I was being pelted by Lazcannons and 1ks. All four got into melee, and I gak you not, everyone one of them missed. Twice. They killed about 4 1ks before being blown off.
Why do the dice gods hate me?
did you administer the proper unguents and recite the canticle of rolling?
Tsol wrote: I ran four melee robots today. And on turn two I was able to get them into the charge. They were on Ageis as I was being pelted by Lazcannons and 1ks. All four got into melee, and I gak you not, everyone one of them missed. Twice. They killed about 4 1ks before being blown off.
Why do the dice gods hate me?
My biggest beef with fistelans is the lack of invulnerable save in CC. I'd otherwise consider giving them a go. The threat they posess is significant, both psychological and otherwise. I mean points wise they're not efficient at all, both fulgurites and infiltrators would probably be better melee options and certainly dragoons. But people are scared of robots, they're not worried about the others; Not as much anyway. I mean they SHOULD be worried about fulgurites if they have any sense but i think Fistelans are a decent distracifex if ineficient. 3 dragoons may do the job though they're big enough.
Tsol wrote: I ran four melee robots today. And on turn two I was able to get them into the charge. They were on Ageis as I was being pelted by Lazcannons and 1ks. All four got into melee, and I gak you not, everyone one of them missed. Twice. They killed about 4 1ks before being blown off.
Why do the dice gods hate me?
My biggest beef with fistelans is the lack of invulnerable save in CC. I'd otherwise consider giving them a go. The threat they posess is significant, both psychological and otherwise. I mean points wise they're not efficient at all, both fulgurites and infiltrators would probably be better melee options and certainly dragoons. But people are scared of robots, they're not worried about the others; Not as much anyway. I mean they SHOULD be worried about fulgurites if they have any sense but i think Fistelans are a decent distracifex if ineficient. 3 dragoons may do the job though they're big enough.
most power weapons are -3 giving you effectively a terminator invuln save under most situations if you stay in aegis... not the best option though. *shrug*
Rolsheen wrote: Would a Spearhead detachment of an Enginseer and multiple units of Servitors (1 HB per unit) be a viable artillery screen?
No. The only reason you would take Servitors are as Elite filler for a Brigade or Vanguard detachment. They are overcosted for what they do.
Which is a shame, since they would have been okay if you could take 4 Heavy Bolters (48 points for 12 S5 AP-1 D1 shots). It's also just too bad that Agripinaa didn't get the FNP or some dogma that would synergize with the stratagem or Servitors and Kataphrons in general.
It's funny to me that the servo arm costs more than a heavy bolter.
Anyways, I'd like to report I've had a fair bit of luck using my Stygies brigade. I've noticed you aren't paying that much more for a brigade over two battalions as well, given it's either an additional tech priest or 3 elite slots. That's 100 points more tax, but a unit of servitors does more than your third enginseer would do its kinda a wash. Assuming you aren't running a mars battalion separately.
I'm going to again recommend dominus+plasma destroyers+their stratagem as an alternative way of buffing kastalens compared to Cawl. It's solid for anyone who doesn't want to use mars. You don't get the mars stratagem is the downside, so probably not as good for competitive, but your robots are noticeably more resistant to damage.
I think what I like about going all Stygies is I finally feel like I can play a game that doesn't devolve into who can alpha strike the hardest/first. It's far more fun for me than previously. It's not tournament level I'm sure, but it's excellent for my local group.
SilverAlien wrote: It's funny to me that the servo arm costs more than a heavy bolter.
Anyways, I'd like to report I've had a fair bit of luck using my Stygies brigade. I've noticed you aren't paying that much more for a brigade over two battalions as well, given it's either an additional tech priest or 3 elite slots. That's 100 points more tax, but a unit of servitors does more than your third enginseer would do its kinda a wash. Assuming you aren't running a mars battalion separately.
I'm going to again recommend dominus+plasma destroyers+their stratagem as an alternative way of buffing kastalens compared to Cawl. It's solid for anyone who doesn't want to use mars. You don't get the mars stratagem is the downside, so probably not as good for competitive, but your robots are noticeably more resistant to damage.
I think what I like about going all Stygies is I finally feel like I can play a game that doesn't devolve into who can alpha strike the hardest/first. It's far more fun for me than previously. It's not tournament level I'm sure, but it's excellent for my local group.
This the elimination volley strategm? I'd consider that if i were taking destroyers anyway, but destroyers are just as expensive as 3 balistarii with twin auto cannons. And i know it doesn't help the robots but the protector doctrine for skitarii units both allows them to advance and fire on a 3+ at no penalty and hit through cover and hard to hit at 2+ for 1cp instead of the 2cp for other strats. If I had a squad of 6 balistarii that efficiency only increases. I'm just not sure on the durability and fire power the kataphron tax brings with it, just to make robots 3+ to hit. I guess kataphrons lined up in front of robots are probably big enough to provide them with cover, that seems like a good idea.
I know robots are good, but i feel better spreading my fire power over my force. especially with the options the ironstrider platform gives. I'm also on board with not pandering to the alpha strike. We have ways of mitigating that now with stygies and lucius. Hide all your crawlers behind terrain because they can still move out and fire without penalty and infiltrate/deep strike your robots or balistarii to save them from the alpha. Hell for 1cp you can still hide (hide...yeah right lol) your balistarii from the alpha, move them and fire at 2+. It makes me uncomfortable relying on a big clump of robots and onagers all bumming cawl/tpd for re-rolls. Just reminds me of death stars all over again and having everything just sat at the back firing game after game gets pretty tiresome for me.
Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
yup. And the strategem is beyond op if it works like it used to
Automatically Appended Next Post: Idk maybe it being 2cp will balance it
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
yup. And the strategem is beyond op if it works like it used to
Automatically Appended Next Post: Idk maybe it being 2cp will balance it
Horde armies are the number 2 reason why 6 cawl/mars robots is now standard. Magnus being number 1. If I run up against an infantry spamming guard player ... that sounds like fun. Going to be a lot of dice. What worries me are those damned forge world artillery platforms and the manticore with those beast mode missiles.
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
I am legitimately curious if they got other nerfs to make them so much less obviously good.
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
As a screen they're mildly less effective, but not getting orders so easily was definitely the biggest issue with getting close with Vanguard for me
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
I am legitimately curious if they got other nerfs to make them so much less obviously good.
I am guessing Scions get a point hike for sure.
Yeah, it is kind of killing me. I have two options as I see it. The STYGIES one certainly is fluffier, but the damage output just sucks. I think it is comparably durable due to superior armor and -1 to hit. But infiltrating at the cost of CP seems like junk compared to the plasmacide squads. If they nerf scions ... my boys are suddenly going to turn into elysians that run the Resin rules.
STYGIES battalion 25 vanguard at -1 to hit + 2 purely tax enginseers 2 dragoons with superior -1 to hit instead of mars double canticles
AM/SCIONS battalion with current rules 26 plasma shots that deepstrike (if in rapid fire) 40 conscripts with commisar morale resistance
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
I am legitimately curious if they got other nerfs to make them so much less obviously good.
I am guessing Scions get a point hike for sure.
Yeah, it is kind of killing me. I have two options as I see it. The STYGIES one certainly is fluffier, but the damage output just sucks. I think it is comparably durable due to superior armor and -1 to hit. But infiltrating at the cost of CP seems like junk compared to the plasmacide squads. If they nerf scions ... my boys are suddenly going to turn into elysians that run the Resin rules.
STYGIES battalion
25 vanguard at -1 to hit + 2 purely tax enginseers
2 dragoons with superior -1 to hit instead of mars double canticles
AM/SCIONS battalion with current rules
26 plasma shots that deepstrike (if in rapid fire)
40 conscripts with commisar morale resistance
Yep. Waiting to pull the trigger on my end too, because pure AdMech - as much as I love the idea - won't get me far in a tourney setting and my area is stupidly competitive (NC is nuts for some reason).
On a total random aside, what is the deal with FW and our Hoplites and Peltasts?! It has been months of waiting for updates. Jeez.
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
I am legitimately curious if they got other nerfs to make them so much less obviously good.
I am guessing Scions get a point hike for sure.
Yeah, it is kind of killing me. I have two options as I see it. The STYGIES one certainly is fluffier, but the damage output just sucks. I think it is comparably durable due to superior armor and -1 to hit. But infiltrating at the cost of CP seems like junk compared to the plasmacide squads. If they nerf scions ... my boys are suddenly going to turn into elysians that run the Resin rules.
STYGIES battalion
25 vanguard at -1 to hit + 2 purely tax enginseers
2 dragoons with superior -1 to hit instead of mars double canticles
AM/SCIONS battalion with current rules
26 plasma shots that deepstrike (if in rapid fire)
40 conscripts with commisar morale resistance
Yep. Waiting to pull the trigger on my end too, because pure AdMech - as much as I love the idea - won't get me far in a tourney setting and my area is stupidly competitive (NC is nuts for some reason).
On a total random aside, what is the deal with FW and our Hoplites and Peltasts?! It has been months of waiting for updates. Jeez.
Yeah what the hell? I saw an email someone got two months ago saying FW would release a PDF so those models could be played. I magnetized the arms on my Peltasts so they could swap their guns and aim and move and stuff. I love those models. But they are straight up unplayable in 8th. My hoplites are never going to get their paint job finished if they don't have rules to justify bringing them to the table.
Hoplites and Peltasts will be released in Fires Of Cyraxus. According to FW emails, the CS team requested the design team to put up Peltast/Hoplite datasheets a few months ago.
Current timer is 502 days, or 1.37 years, since Fires Of Cyraxus was announced.
Verviedi wrote: Hoplites and Peltasts will be released in Fires Of Cyraxus. According to FW emails, the CS team requested the design team to put up Peltast/Hoplite datasheets a few months ago.
Current timer is 502 days, or 1.37 years, since Fires Of Cyraxus was announced.
Still not as long as I have been waiting for my transfers.
Verviedi wrote: Hoplites and Peltasts will be released in Fires Of Cyraxus. According to FW emails, the CS team requested the design team to put up Peltast/Hoplite datasheets a few months ago.
Current timer is 502 days, or 1.37 years, since Fires Of Cyraxus was announced.
Still not as long as I have been waiting for my transfers.
you do know you can make your own transfers right? All you need is an inkjet printer
Verviedi wrote: Hoplites and Peltasts will be released in Fires Of Cyraxus. According to FW emails, the CS team requested the design team to put up Peltast/Hoplite datasheets a few months ago.
Current timer is 502 days, or 1.37 years, since Fires Of Cyraxus was announced.
Still not as long as I have been waiting for my transfers.
you do know you can make your own transfers right? All you need is an inkjet printer
Naw man, can't print white. My House has mostly white heraldry. Plus, I don't have nearly the high-res images needed to do a good sheet. Why half-ass it when I know that someday I will get real ones?
SilverAlien wrote: It's funny to me that the servo arm costs more than a heavy bolter.
Anyways, I'd like to report I've had a fair bit of luck using my Stygies brigade. I've noticed you aren't paying that much more for a brigade over two battalions as well, given it's either an additional tech priest or 3 elite slots. That's 100 points more tax, but a unit of servitors does more than your third enginseer would do its kinda a wash. Assuming you aren't running a mars battalion separately.
I'm going to again recommend dominus+plasma destroyers+their stratagem as an alternative way of buffing kastalens compared to Cawl. It's solid for anyone who doesn't want to use mars. You don't get the mars stratagem is the downside, so probably not as good for competitive, but your robots are noticeably more resistant to damage.
I think what I like about going all Stygies is I finally feel like I can play a game that doesn't devolve into who can alpha strike the hardest/first. It's far more fun for me than previously. It's not tournament level I'm sure, but it's excellent for my local group.
I am glad to hear it. I think the two viable approaches are a Brigade and maybe an Axuiliary detachment or a Battalion and a Spearhead or Outrider detachment.
Ah man... why does Valhalla get such cool rules? *Trying and failing to not be salty*
Wulfey wrote: Conscripts were not nerfed for admech purposes. They now only run in units of 20-30 and require a 4+ to receive orders. That means they are still an A+ screen. Big question now is whether scions get the nerf bat.
6 robots + screen + deepstrike for days fellas
If anything, they're even more annoying now that there are more units of them. I hope that they go to 6+ Sv or all Guard infantry just gets +1 point cost.
Horde armies are the number 2 reason why 6 cawl/mars robots is now standard. Magnus being number 1. If I run up against an infantry spamming guard player ... that sounds like fun. Going to be a lot of dice. What worries me are those damned forge world artillery platforms and the manticore with those beast mode missiles.
This is why we have Neutron Crawlers and infiltrating Dragoons.
gendoikari87 wrote: You can do white...well depending on your printer. High res images might require bribing an artsy friend. Don't have one of those you might be sol.
I am actually an artist. The resolution on the stuff I want is just way too low to yield a good product.
I have made decal sheets before and used them. Not a fan. They are usually too thick.
Also, you can do white, but not white only. The sheets you get are solid white, so you would have to print out your image with a black outline and cut the thing out and that is just a crazy amount of work on something potentially highly detailed and the sizes needed. Not worth it when I know I will get a quality product from FW in the nearish future. Their sheets are top notch and I can never recommend them enough!
Thats the real issue with this codex. All new videos i see gw parrots saying what a cool codex value bla bla and is crap. Yes they gave options but nothing in synergy.
Wrath of mars ok. And ?? Broken Robots that got nerfed. Double nerfed. Lost 5+ return mortal and they now double shoot not shoot twice less split fire forcing bigger unit for wrarh of mars and easy to get around. I dont have an issue it was at least a serious change they gave a 2 point broken wrath of mars but do not be mistaken they nerfed and made weak our Robots from what they where.
Its not funny to lock you Robots first round or not have a datasmith if you really play competitive. And i dont believe you gonna take 6 robots with Cawl and wrath of mars for fun games. That said
Codex mademore units viable playable and i can see why they got all those studios parroting how good it is. The fact though is they did nothing for our codex. It has nothing new. Nothing. We didnt want to heal one wound on the knight or force to take warlord trait relic dominus to follow 6" move on our knights to be able to heal him. Certainly not.
We wanted adeptus mechanicus to be an army an army serious enough to have versatile competitive options. Ok i agree the codex gems design was heading towards the right direction making this army verstile as it was almost in 7th. Somewhat stayed inside the fluff but the result is not playable.
Gotta say its clear in cntrol was trying to say some of the issue. If you sit down and not read the codex page by page you ll realise you cant have any combination from this codex. You just cant combine nothing.
We pay so much tax so much and the ability to be versatile with cp s is so limited you cant even effectively play a third round. Go try i provoke you to go play any plan in competitive enviroment and you d soon realise your juice runs out in two turns.
We talking for so many days to even try and fit inside a list 2 dogmas and 2 plans . Robots and dragoons. Robots are easily overcomed from many strats even a first turn alpha he lost 3 robots from a mere 500 poins deep strike and he was lucky. Soyou ll do what robots and cry?
In ordermto have a second chance we try to get a group of dragoons. Inflitrate use gems for 2+ hit 4+ explode. Two rounds maybe a wrath of mars maybe inf dragoons maybe +2 one reroll etc. Thats it. No screener no transport no mobility nothing. You wont have anything.
So might be nice to have breachers now or check sniper or test inflitrators or whatever you found nice in this book but you wo t see it in tabletop. There is no way you can make an effective competitive list vs serious enemies. They balanced the Robots and they did good i dont like broken things. They balanced the army wkth gems and dogmas but we cant play it competitive.
Dogmas dont co exist. So you need to take cp s from where? Battalion with troops?? What troops 5 man ? Wanna see how many guns can kill those 5 rangervangs all guns just sneeze. I wont start with mortars and other competitive lists. So far we keep it logical.
What can i get destrouers robots a d Cawl? No and maybe i should not .
Dominus robot destroyers is for no Cawl combos like ryza. With plasma vang etc. Again even if you decide to take a ryza brigade for 9 cp with all plasma options still it will be a fun game not competitive since there is none co petitive player out there that will not shoot all his stubber guns towards your 76 point destroyer for an amazing low cost gun kill. While you cry for you lost 76 poimts even if you shoot once 76 d6 shots are so random that if you dare take . 1*3 destroyers and 1*2 robots twice you invest 230*4 900+ poimts for? Paper damage situational in most cases. New lemman rush csn shoot twice if moving half . That where deastroyers last edition expensivembut grav was a non brainer. Youd play them with screener and knew some result. You can pay so much for a random result. Ryza will make this even worse if you spend the cp s and roll lowmon d6 is a game lost.
Lets try what all other armies got cheap options. 52 enginserr 40 rangers. No mobility no transport . Ok smaller units die easy. Bigger units with special weapons even easier with out spending again cp s to a oid moral issues while your gun options are extreme in cost once more. No melee hq aura unit.none.
Mobility if you dont pay cp s you cant do it. Ok how hard was to give dunestrider of 7th editio . Some scout or some relentless. I vet we dont lime transport for fluff reason we are the endless march. Im with you but scout?? Where is scout wny i gotta be obj secure have bionic feet and no dunestrider no scout no +1+2+3 on advance or charge. We dont even have gem for run charge. Whats up with that? Where is ghe problem. Why can rustalkers have the rule to pop behimd enemy deploy zone like cavarly? We gotta pay for everythjng
We all exited and we like the rules ok thats one. We like the options and some of the flavor returned but we ll never see anything on the table top toghether. 20 priest nice bb cps bb points . I can write for hours. Nerf our superb units if that s the case but give back some 5 turn option and not two round cp. Cant give lower cost ok then give some options default. Like the rest of the armies. Bigger troop unit tht can be screener. Dont ljke kt we getting strong ok then we pay for transport. Dont like it make it air transport its in fluff so we got mobility still dont loke it its broken? Ok dunetrider. Dont have to be and scout and relentless and +3 run charge move. Be something so we can at least use this great infantry.
Was not aiming to tire none but i just had enough with review codex videos reading pge fter page of how superb this codex is. Its heading towards a good direction but its far from it.
Go try make detachments . Battalions we gotta pay 52 extra for enginseer that is crap and 3 * troops doing nothing. Can move cant survive cant take 20 cant morale cant use sniper extreme cost. We gott take them bare bones doing nothing 172 points of nothing.
Breachers i like i ll take .... how with so much tax . Elimination volley not working???? Why so we dont arc rifle 6 strbs 3 weapon for real 140 points after codex??destroyers already said.
What vanguard? With what? Datasmith only healing forge word robots. How would you not pay tax. You want to take inflitrators as mars for not even paying more tax with a new lucius detachm . Ok so we got inf. Datasmith and priest? And its the best possible so far.
Oh dont forgeg you ned also robots inside. Gotta be all same dogma to work any of the bilities gems etc.
Heavys. Now listen to this. Not o only you payed for the rest of tax now we getti g even better. Onagers meed to be same forge world to count as friendly for reroll inv. Tadaaaaa. Same goes for hq.
So let me explain this. You busting your head to make cp s. You eventually saw 2* batt in control used ok lets have one option . 2* batt. Now to fit Cawl Robots having point to use Cawl or decide to use -1 for onagers means what? You either need 4 onagers two/ dogma or go for rerolls or go for -1. Ok but how woould you combine again datasith robots with onagers and if not and take them stygia Cawl rerolls only for Robots? And troops and datasmith and enginseers that will be 3 of them not able to heal only dogms based and your troop are 1 wound so only healable robot or onager. And w8 you still got 9 cp s that is a joke you ll not make a second round.
You got only robots effective unit if you get alpha strike your toast but you got value and options. Dominus works the same his aura nd heal only for dogma so the nice combo of healer relic bla bla is crap. As Cawl will not worth taking if you dont get all mars . Same goes for dominus etc.
So what did the codex bring.
I played pre codex 3-4 robos datasmith mobile.5 onagers priests. And ig brigadefor 12 cp. With 40 bodies screener and a dakkaline all healble and all buffed.
What a valuable codex take a look of guard codex thats value. Options you got default units able to do their job and gems for options.we got nothing from this codex and you can spam videos all day long.
gendoikari87 wrote: Do they not make transfer paper in off white? Seems like a business opportunity.
A printer does not print in white ink, which is what you need for decals. Otherwise, you are printing an outline on white paper (which they make) and having to cut out the design perfectly to apply. This is extremely hard and again those transfers tend to run thick and not look as good. Printer quality is an issue, especially with already low res images.
Trust me, this is a topic I have thoroughly researched.
Thats the real issue with this codex. All new videos i see gw parrots saying what a cool codex value bla bla and is crap. Yes they gave options but nothing in synergy.
Wrath of mars ok. And ?? Broken Robots that got nerfed. Double nerfed. Lost 5+ return mortal and they now double shoot not shoot twice less split fire forcing bigger unit for wrarh of mars and easy to get around. I dont have an issue it was at least a serious change they gave a 2 point broken wrath of mars but do not be mistaken they nerfed and made weak our Robots from what they where.
Its not funny to lock you Robots first round or not have a datasmith if you really play competitive. And i dont believe you gonna take 6 robots with Cawl and wrath of mars for fun games. That said
Codex mademore units viable playable and i can see why they got all those studios parroting how good it is. The fact though is they did nothing for our codex. It has nothing new. Nothing. We didnt want to heal one wound on the knight or force to take warlord trait relic dominus to follow 6" move on our knights to be able to heal him. Certainly not.
We wanted adeptus mechanicus to be an army an army serious enough to have versatile competitive options. Ok i agree the codex gems design was heading towards the right direction making this army verstile as it was almost in 7th. Somewhat stayed inside the fluff but the result is not playable.
Gotta say its clear in cntrol was trying to say some of the issue. If you sit down and not read the codex page by page you ll realise you cant have any combination from this codex. You just cant combine nothing.
We pay so much tax so much and the ability to be versatile with cp s is so limited you cant even effectively play a third round. Go try i provoke you to go play any plan in competitive enviroment and you d soon realise your juice runs out in two turns.
We talking for so many days to even try and fit inside a list 2 dogmas and 2 plans . Robots and dragoons. Robots are easily overcomed from many strats even a first turn alpha he lost 3 robots from a mere 500 poins deep strike and he was lucky. Soyou ll do what robots and cry?
In ordermto have a second chance we try to get a group of dragoons. Inflitrate use gems for 2+ hit 4+ explode. Two rounds maybe a wrath of mars maybe inf dragoons maybe +2 one reroll etc. Thats it. No screener no transport no mobility nothing. You wont have anything.
So might be nice to have breachers now or check sniper or test inflitrators or whatever you found nice in this book but you wo t see it in tabletop. There is no way you can make an effective competitive list vs serious enemies. They balanced the Robots and they did good i dont like broken things. They balanced the army wkth gems and dogmas but we cant play it competitive.
Dogmas dont co exist. So you need to take cp s from where? Battalion with troops?? What troops 5 man ? Wanna see how many guns can kill those 5 rangervangs all guns just sneeze. I wont start with mortars and other competitive lists. So far we keep it logical.
What can i get destrouers robots a d Cawl? No and maybe i should not .
Dominus robot destroyers is for no Cawl combos like ryza. With plasma vang etc. Again even if you decide to take a ryza brigade for 9 cp with all plasma options still it will be a fun game not competitive since there is none co petitive player out there that will not shoot all his stubber guns towards your 76 point destroyer for an amazing low cost gun kill. While you cry for you lost 76 poimts even if you shoot once 76 d6 shots are so random that if you dare take . 1*3 destroyers and 1*2 robots twice you invest 230*4 900+ poimts for? Paper damage situational in most cases. New lemman rush csn shoot twice if moving half . That where deastroyers last edition expensivembut grav was a non brainer. Youd play them with screener and knew some result. You can pay so much for a random result. Ryza will make this even worse if you spend the cp s and roll lowmon d6 is a game lost.
Lets try what all other armies got cheap options. 52 enginserr 40 rangers. No mobility no transport . Ok smaller units die easy. Bigger units with special weapons even easier with out spending again cp s to a oid moral issues while your gun options are extreme in cost once more. No melee hq aura unit.none.
Mobility if you dont pay cp s you cant do it. Ok how hard was to give dunestrider of 7th editio . Some scout or some relentless. I vet we dont lime transport for fluff reason we are the endless march. Im with you but scout?? Where is scout wny i gotta be obj secure have bionic feet and no dunestrider no scout no +1+2+3 on advance or charge. We dont even have gem for run charge. Whats up with that? Where is ghe problem. Why can rustalkers have the rule to pop behimd enemy deploy zone like cavarly? We gotta pay for everythjng
We all exited and we like the rules ok thats one. We like the options and some of the flavor returned but we ll never see anything on the table top toghether. 20 priest nice bb cps bb points . I can write for hours. Nerf our superb units if that s the case but give back some 5 turn option and not two round cp. Cant give lower cost ok then give some options default. Like the rest of the armies. Bigger troop unit tht can be screener. Dont ljke kt we getting strong ok then we pay for transport. Dont like it make it air transport its in fluff so we got mobility still dont loke it its broken? Ok dunetrider. Dont have to be and scout and relentless and +3 run charge move. Be something so we can at least use this great infantry.
Was not aiming to tire none but i just had enough with review codex videos reading pge fter page of how superb this codex is. Its heading towards a good direction but its far from it.
Go try make detachments . Battalions we gotta pay 52 extra for enginseer that is crap and 3 * troops doing nothing. Can move cant survive cant take 20 cant morale cant use sniper extreme cost. We gott take them bare bones doing nothing 172 points of nothing.
Breachers i like i ll take .... how with so much tax . Elimination volley not working???? Why so we dont arc rifle 6 strbs 3 weapon for real 140 points after codex??destroyers already said.
What vanguard? With what? Datasmith only healing forge word robots. How would you not pay tax. You want to take inflitrators as mars for not even paying more tax with a new lucius detachm . Ok so we got inf. Datasmith and priest? And its the best possible so far.
Oh dont forgeg you ned also robots inside. Gotta be all same dogma to work any of the bilities gems etc.
Heavys. Now listen to this. Not o only you payed for the rest of tax now we getti g even better. Onagers meed to be same forge world to count as friendly for reroll inv. Tadaaaaa. Same goes for hq.
So let me explain this. You busting your head to make cp s. You eventually saw 2* batt in control used ok lets have one option . 2* batt. Now to fit Cawl Robots having point to use Cawl or decide to use -1 for onagers means what? You either need 4 onagers two/ dogma or go for rerolls or go for -1. Ok but how woould you combine again datasith robots with onagers and if not and take them stygia Cawl rerolls only for Robots? And troops and datasmith and enginseers that will be 3 of them not able to heal only dogms based and your troop are 1 wound so only healable robot or onager. And w8 you still got 9 cp s that is a joke you ll not make a second round.
You got only robots effective unit if you get alpha strike your toast but you got value and options. Dominus works the same his aura nd heal only for dogma so the nice combo of healer relic bla bla is crap. As Cawl will not worth taking if you dont get all mars . Same goes for dominus etc.
So what did the codex bring.
I played pre codex 3-4 robos datasmith mobile.5 onagers priests. And ig brigadefor 12 cp. With 40 bodies screener and a dakkaline all healble and all buffed.
What a valuable codex take a look of guard codex thats value. Options you got default units able to do their job and gems for options.we got nothing from this codex and you can spam videos all day long.
Man, i can't imagine how salty you would be if you would play sisters xD. Our main problem is limited amount of models. Codex was written without enough testing, thats clear, but since it haven't been written after 8ed came but before, we can hope that errata will fix many things. Bummer that they sold us codex that have to be supplemented so hard with faq. My advice for you: "Embrace dark humor and laugh from this." xD
Such reaching nonsense. It does not say one thing about making an out-of-sequence attack, just stipulating that when it does make a shooting attack, it does so without penalty.
Such reaching nonsense. It does not say one thing about making an out-of-sequence attack, just stipulating that when it does make a shooting attack, it does so without penalty.
No it doesn't. By all rules of logic and sentence building it means that A) you can use this stratagem at any time B) to shoot, and c) ignore specific penalties while doing that.
Yes, it was intended for only shooting phase, but raw you can start shooting your opponent even in deployment
Verviedi wrote: Hoplites and Peltasts will be released in Fires Of Cyraxus. According to FW emails, the CS team requested the design team to put up Peltast/Hoplite datasheets a few months ago.
Current timer is 502 days, or 1.37 years, since Fires Of Cyraxus was announced.
Such reaching nonsense. It does not say one thing about making an out-of-sequence attack, just stipulating that when it does make a shooting attack, it does so without penalty.
No it doesn't. By all rules of logic and sentence building it means that A) you can use this stratagem at any time B) to shoot, and c) ignore specific penalties while doing that.
Yes, it was intended for only shooting phase, but raw you can start shooting your opponent even in deployment
it is not even worth arguing who's right. If it goes in errata it's currently raw, FAQ it's not currently raw. Either way any opponent will rightly slap you for doing it.
Such reaching nonsense. It does not say one thing about making an out-of-sequence attack, just stipulating that when it does make a shooting attack, it does so without penalty.
No it doesn't. By all rules of logic and sentence building it means that A) you can use this stratagem at any time B) to shoot, and c) ignore specific penalties while doing that.
Yes, it was intended for only shooting phase, but raw you can start shooting your opponent even in deployment
It does not say "may make a shooting attack" or anything of that nature. It says it shoots without penalty. That is not the same thing as make a shooting attack. Even still, RAI is obvious and even attempting to play it as able to shoot is just dumb, unless you want to make everyone hate you for being TFG. And no TO in their right mind will allow it either, so its a non-issue all around.
Such reaching nonsense. It does not say one thing about making an out-of-sequence attack, just stipulating that when it does make a shooting attack, it does so without penalty.
No it doesn't. By all rules of logic and sentence building it means that A) you can use this stratagem at any time B) to shoot, and c) ignore specific penalties while doing that.
Yes, it was intended for only shooting phase, but raw you can start shooting your opponent even in deployment
It does not say "may make a shooting attack" or anything of that nature. It says it shoots without penalty. That is not the same thing as make a shooting attack. Even still, RAI is obvious and even attempting to play it as able to shoot is just dumb, unless you want to make everyone hate you for being TFG. And no TO in their right mind will allow it either, so its a non-issue all around.
It should have ben written either like this ", unit from your army may ignore Dawn Raid, Low Visibility or Cover of darkness rules." or " [...]durning Shooting phase[...]. Because "It may shoot" is on other places used instead of making shooting attack. Your interpretation would meant that in other scenarios by this wording something couldn't shoot, wen rules intended them to.
I agree, any TO worth his name would kick your ass out of his Tourney, casual players would flip the table and you would be That Guy(or just simply Dick). I just find this mistake incredibly funny and wanted share my reason to laugh with you guys.
There is language about shooting out of phase in Auspex Scan. That should highlight the difference. "Shoot with an AdMech unit from your army without the penalties..." is not the same as "Your unit can immediately shoot..."
Big difference. The language here is clearly indicating that you shoot without penalties. Sloppy wording, but still takes some reaching to interpret that as shooting.
And Auspex Scan is 2CP and has a penalty to-hit, so all things together, it is obvious what it is meant to do no matter how hard the language is twisted.
I am waiting on RAGE OF THE MACHINES and BEVEVOLENCE OF THE OMNISSIAH to be FAQd. Do they only affect 1 VEHICLE? Or do they affect a whole UNIT of vehicles? RAW it says 1 vehicle. Which is super lame for a 6 vehicle unit of dakkastelons.
Use this Stratagem before an ADEPTUS MECHANICUS VEHICLE from your army attacks in the Shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, that vehicle can ignore all penalties for moving and firing a Heavy weapon, for Advancing and firing an Assault weapon, and for Advancing and firing a cognis weapon. For the purposes of this Stratagem, a cognis weapon is any weapon profile whose name includes the word ‘cognis’ (e.g. twin cognis autocannon, twin cognis lascannon).
EDIT: on the SCRYERSKULL strategem. RAW it is plainly a total screw up and does allow you to shoot at any time. This is an obvious and game breaking oversight. I would never play this RAW and trying to force it RAW in a tournament would get you overruled by the judge.
It says "Use this Stratagem at any time to do one of the follow: ....; or shoot with an ADMECH unit from your army without the penalties to your hit rolls from the Dawn Raid, Low Visibility or Cover of Darkness rules."
They blew it by writing 'at any time'. It should be "...; or, <during the shooting phase> shoot with an ADMECH unit ... "
em_en_oh_pee wrote: There is language about shooting out of phase in Auspex Scan. That should highlight the difference. "Shoot with an AdMech unit from your army without the penalties..." is not the same as "Your unit can immediately shoot..."
Big difference. The language here is clearly indicating that you shoot without penalties. Sloppy wording, but still takes some reaching to interpret that as shooting.
And Auspex Scan is 2CP and has a penalty to-hit, so all things together, it is obvious what it is meant to do no matter how hard the language is twisted.
OK, i see no point for arguing since neither of us can convince the other one and this isn't really important matter. Lets move along and just wait to see if GW will errate that or explain how to interpret that in FAQ.
WrentheFaceless wrote: The rule is obviously not intended to let us shoot whenever we want without any penalties.
Yes, it wasn't intended, but sloppy wording made it this way anyway. It's serious bug, if Tournament Judges were not humans but computers strictly interpreting RAW, gamebreakinig one. Lets hope there won't be any Jerk who would try to actually pull that of.
Move along, entry on Balistarii this time. I must say that I'm surprised that my entires aren't discussed that much so far. No-one disagree or have different opinions?
Spoiler:
This is good unit. Durable, mobile and brings firepower. Priced either 75pts/model with Twin Cognis Autocannon or 95pts/model with Twin Cognis Lascannon which is good price.
They lack -1 to hit them of their Dragoons brothers but that isn’t big deal. Solid in every way.
The real question is how do they compare to other similar units form Ad mech army.
Vs Dunecrawlers;
They bring higher density of high power daka vs Neutronager and Similar vs Icarus Aray and Eradication Beam per point, as three Lascannon Balistarii cost more or less same points as two Onagers depending on equipment. Less durable, but don’t have damage chart and won’t lose power with accumulated wounds.
Vs Kastelans;
Significantly less power with a bit less durability. Have slightly higher range but can buff Leadership of friendly nearby <FORGE WORLD> models and again have superior mobility.
Both Kataphrons are overshadowed by them: better durability, mobility with comparable power.
Take them if you need flexible unit that can fit in different play style, maneuver on battlefield to utilize LOS blocking and hunt appropriate targets. Utilizing LOS is clue of this unit so if table don’t have appropriate terrain you won’t be able to utilize them to their full potential. If you don’t want to just castle up they are for you. They will be good screen and area denial unit vs DS, although Dragoons are better for that. Very good in Mono Stygies and Lucius armies, since Cawll is not factor there. Less favorable for Mars but still good. Occasionally you can explode them for 1cp when they die if 1MW would make difference.
Swiss Knife type that will be useful in every game, just not as good at certain tasks as dedicated units.
Sprinkle units of one to fill up brigade fast attack slots or get little more anti armour and area covering.
Bring unit of 3+ to fill gap in your list, gaining durable daka, freeing your robots. It is also worth of mentioning that for 1 cp they bring way to shoot Culexus assassins on 4+ if Assassin lists prevail in meta, being one of few ways in Army to deal with character shenanigans.
7.5/10
Balistarii are not that good. Atm i would take two vs one onager even more expensive just to fill an outrider for those superb dragoons. 95 poimts lascannon is worse than neutro in every way. Still a valod choise for smaller games extra anti tank if for some reason cant field onagers? With stygia -1 and the need to fill fast slot i could see 1-2 backfield screeners.
Onager have datatether get skitarii buff and thats why i prefer neutronagers. 1 cp for +2 hit if need can target even air units. Could use a big unit of 3+ balistarii for the gem but its of no use atm. As always with this codex we need bigger units for the gems but we cant pay for them? 3* balostsrii just one unit costs 300. Its 2 onagers wth better gun better hp better defence shoot an move . Its by far better if no need to cover for detwchment slots.
Just to be fair. If you wanted to actually be the best in details then if you somehow where to get one unit balistarii one big then the gap starts to close.
If you remain stationary and get 3+ balostarii their 2 shots become more consistent. Since onager is d3 . So 290 average points give 2d3 onager shots or 6 lascn shots . Still onager 3-6 damage need even bigger unit to close the difference. That said as you bring numbers and since the buff works on units then balistarii can now close and eventually be more consitent. Str 9 vs str 10 etc also counts we talking details. Hf
Yup as i said, they are there to be versatile, not specialized. They are good, just not as good as other specialized options. I rated them 7,5/10 when Onagers are 8,5/10 and Dakkastelans are 10/10 in my opinion.
I'll work on that entry to clarify that. Thank you on your insights and opinions.
Yeah i wouldn't call the Ballistari truly higher density of shots. 95 vs 140 for the same number of shots but neutronager is much better shots.
point for point they end up being extraordinarily close. average anti vehicle wounds figuring a 3+ are 7.77 for three lascannon balistariii and 7.11 for the neutronager. that's within a wound, almost half a wound. 4.55 for the icarus
so the balistarii technically does very marginally more wound per point compared to the neutronager. but it has it's disadvantages. of course it also has it's advantages.
and the icarus without improving it's BS is just horrible by comparison.... except against flying units. that's a completely different story. and of course the icarus could be said to be better anti infantry too.
overall i'd agree the balistarii are 7.5 and the neutronager is 8.5
It is now 2x shots. 
