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Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 08:33:39


Post by: Nykolo


I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 08:44:46


Post by: Corrode


Over the years they've regularly been one of the best armies in the game, and usually their strong builds have been extremely unpleasant to play against.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 08:47:16


Post by: Flood


Consistently being one of the best armies in terms of competitiveness since 6th.
Ynnari.
Elf smugness.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 09:05:53


Post by: Tyel


 Flood wrote:
Consistently being one of the best armies in terms of competitiveness since 6th.
Ynnari.
Elf smugness.


Barring a bit of a weak period in 5th they have been a top army going back to 2nd edition.
Pure Craftworld Eldar is probably the weakest its been in twenty years.

Really though the hatred mainly comes from being comically overpowered through 7th.



Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 09:19:50


Post by: Earth127


Given for some weird reason the most commically OP faction wide rule ever (Strength from death).

I thought that rule was bonkers OP and I played Eldar.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 09:26:52


Post by: koooaei


The only time they haven't been op is in 5-th and start of 8-th. Before 5-th they used to have overpowered skimmer rules. In fact, you could steam-roll your opponents with nothing but falcon tanks and some other random op units here and there.
In 6-th they recieved a top-tier codex that, like most things back than, featured a bunch of crappy units that noone ever fielded, a bunch of ok and good units that still noone fielded and a bunch of overpowered and extremely annoying units that flooded the table. You could now steamroll everything with wave serpents and new huge-ass overpowered underpriced wraithknights.
In early 7-th GW took a step back from power creep of 6-th. We got CSM, Orks, Inquisition and a coupe more - all ok books with no particularly overpowered combos, with some variety and even character to it. That brought hope to a suffering and dwinding 40k community that got shot in the foot by how bad 6-th was. But than eldar came out and turned the tables once again. 7-th eldar were so rediculously overpowered, they competely invalidated what good early 7-th brought. To be fair, it was officially started with decurion-style formations that necrons brought to the table, however, necrons were only mildly powerful. Eldar, on the other hand, could field an army of doom with no particular disadvantages. They had best troops in the game - windrider jetbikes - each of them could take an underpriced scatter laser, could shoot and move away, could move 12" - 48", had 3+ armor save, could jink and costed so few points, they could counter 80% lists out there on their own. Wraithknights that now became even more powerful but didn't increase in cost appropriately. Not even close. And most enemies didn't even have weapons fit to fight them. Anti-tank weapons didn't work too good because they were monstrous creatures. And being monstous creatures, they also recieved a bunch of free bonuses like getting cover for having a toe in terrain. Than there were warp spiders that could ignore enemy fire if placed correctly. And a lot of other 'neat' perks like farseers that basically ignored perils, vehicles that basically ignored terrain and in some cases damage table...and eldar ended up with an army that could ignore it's opponents. A person who's played 40k tabletop (not even eldar) for at least a couple times could pick an eldar army and dominate most games.

In 8-th all this stuff got fixed for now. But it's hard to forget how bad it was to get a pickup game with your mishmash forces and than suddenly find out the enemy plays eldar.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 10:28:25


Post by: Crispy78


What CSM did we get in early 7th? CSM codex dated from the very start of 6th.

But yes, until recently Eldar were ludicrously overpowered and tended to attract obnoxious players.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 10:33:02


Post by: Gamgee


Cheese, but mostly I think their lore is dumb. Great models though.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 10:37:05


Post by: Torga_DW


Eldar spent a great deal of time having rules that exceeded those of 'everyone else'. Especially marine players (damn you starcannons!).

For various reasons, people hated that.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/09/30 11:38:33


Post by: Turnip Jedi


part of it is that for quite a while now the top tier of Eldar units were so far ahead of everything else in the Eldar Codex that those units just got spammed over and over, making 'competitive' Eldar really frustrating / boring to fight, SfD didn't help either


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 00:42:22


Post by: Nykolo


Yikes! Sorry about all that. Despite them being the army I decided on, and still am going to play, I do hope they have been nerfed in 8th edition. I haven't read the index yet, as I am actually waiting until the codex comes out.
I mostly chose them because I am a D&D player, and elves are my favorite race. So I figured "I like elves, Eldar are space elves. Win-win situation!"
Still, I do like their lore (sorry Gamgee), and I think their models are gorgeous. Plus, I enjoy their mobile/specialist playstyle.

P.S: If I am using any terms wrong, please correct me. Lol


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 00:49:04


Post by: Galas


Rules come and go. Models stay forever. If you like Eldars models and lore, play them! People hated them for being "OP" but really only 3-4 unist where really OP. Even in their most OP times, you could play viable armies that wheren't OP.

But people likes to hate a full faction/army when they have some combo that is OP. Normally is pure internet hyperbole, in real life if people see that you are using a normal army they aren't gonna have problems. And if they have, they don't are worth it.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 01:01:38


Post by: SilverAlien


 Nykolo wrote:
Yikes! Sorry about all that. Despite them being the army I decided on, and still am going to play, I do hope they have been nerfed in 8th edition. I haven't read the index yet, as I am actually waiting until the codex comes out.
I mostly chose them because I am a D&D player, and elves are my favorite race. So I figured "I like elves, Eldar are space elves. Win-win situation!"
Still, I do like their lore (sorry Gamgee), and I think their models are gorgeous. Plus, I enjoy their mobile/specialist playstyle.

P.S: If I am using any terms wrong, please correct me. Lol


Amusingly eldar as a whole aren't very good this edition, at least not craftworld eldar which is what most of us assume plain eldar refers to. They do have a codex coming soon though so that could change.

I wouldn't worry too much, irl it won't be an issue. Online everyone is a but they are about everything, eldar just have it a little bit worse for now.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 01:19:20


Post by: Elbows


Keep in mind that there is a large percentage of the Warhammer gaming community to which the army/painting/hobbying is more or less irrelevant. Seriously competitive gamers will often flock to whatever the current "power" list is. In many editions Eldar have had a powerful option to take - it may be a narrow options list (i.e. biker spam, powerhouse wraithknights etc.). This edition the most broken thing is perhaps Wave Serpents etc.

So people don't often arbitrarily hate Eldar, but if you show up with a min-maxed power list...they're likely not going to enjoy playing you, regardless of army. If you show up with a nice fluffy army which isn't spammed to death no one is likely to raise a fuss.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 01:24:22


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Eldar have been upper middle tier or above for the entire life of the game. For several editions, they have been the undisputed top army. Generally, when they are at their lowest, they are still better than more than half of the armies.

As a whole though, it isn't Eldar playersthat are hated, just the army itself. That said, players that did Serpent Spam in 6e/7e or Scatbike Spam in 7e paired with Wraithknight usage (widely regarded as the most broken unit in all of 7e) earned a special level of hatred.

Anymore though, Eldar just aren't that great (their incoming codex could change that drastically though...).


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 01:45:00


Post by: Hoodwink


People hate it for the same reason many hate Grey Knights. They've been blatantly OP for a time and regardless if they are now (which they aren't), some people will just hate them.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 01:48:03


Post by: MechaEmperor7000


Eldar, in theory, are suppose to be an army that required some skill to play, in that their units are highly specialized for one purpose, and their general low armor and toughness means that they get shredded if you tried playing them like, say, Marines and Guard. The old saying goes that if you pit 10 eldar (different units) against 10 marines, the marines will kill 9 of the eldar, while the last one singlehandedly kills all of the marines.

In practice, they have basically been anything but that for the past 2 editions. I forgot what specifically made them awesome in 6th but I do remember something about wave serpents, Eldrad shenanigans and so forth. They also got the Wraithknight at this point, although this wasn't an issue because the Tau Riptide was by far considered a stronger, cheaper version.

Things got bad in 7th edition for the following reasons:

1.) All of their Distort Weapons became D-weapons, which basically let them auto-wound anything and have a chance to Instant Death multi-wound models. This is a problem because they also had a Distort Flamer (basically auto-hit), although the rules for D-Weapons was toned back for that. However it still didn't sit well with people because it was available on Wraithguard, a very cheap (relative) platform for a weapon that was once in the realm of Titans (basically imagine if every 3-point grot could have a 10 point lascannon. It doesn't matter if it's comically overcosted; the sheer volume meant they could do ridiculous damage).

2.) Scatbikes. This is specifically the Jetbikes (which were Troops at the time) gaining the ability to take Scatter Lasers on each bike. This became an issue because each Jetbike was basically a slightly more costly Assault Marine, while they could still fire the Scatter Lasers on the move. Being eldar jetbikes meant they had much more manouverability than other types of bikes and the Scatter lasers had both volume of fire, range and strength to deal damage to infantry, tanks and monsters alike. And being troops meant that there was no drawback to taking them since they fulfilled the troop tax (something that a lot of armies struggle with at the time).

3.) The Wraithknight. This guy was ok in 6th, nothing really remarkable. But 7th edition saw him being upgraded to Gargantuan Creature status for almost no increase in points. This became a problem because gargantuan creatures at the time often came at a very high cost; hence your enemies could often field enough troops to counter them with massed firepower (they were basically immune to poison and ID weapons, two methods traditionally used to take down high wound, high toughness enemies). But for a meager 300 or so points you could have a Wraithknight, which meant that it started showing up in low points games where most people don't stand a whiff of a chance of taking one down. What's worse, the only real limiter to the Wraithknight was the lone Lord of War slot FoCs get....but you can get more if you fulfilled the troops tax (see above why this became an issue).

The three problems above basically made Eldar into a "point and click" army, where you basically just set your units down, advance forward and kill everything, then double back to cap objectives (sometimes this could even be done in the same turn). It didn't help that a lot of Eldar players became eldar players specifically to abuse these, all the while claiming it to be "fair". This actually lasted far longer than it should, as a lot of Eldar players still, to this day, insist that these were "balanced" and that GW had some kind of vendetta against them when the Eldar's power were toned back.

Note that at the time, the Eldar codex as a whole wasn't unbalanced, but those three stood so far above the rest that they were basically all that was remembered. For example no one remembers how much Eldar Rangers sucked during all of this, and Banshees and Scorpions became the butt of all jokes on par with the Pyrovore.

As for the present, apart from a few nerfed units (most notable is the Dire Avengers), Eldar are relatively balanced. People will tell you they suck, but that's only because the all-elf faction (the Ynnari) has a rule that replaces the Craftworld Eldar rule with a superior one. Taken on their own, they don't suck, but with the Ynnari rule in place there's basically no reason to play *just* craftworld (especially since, on top of the rules, it also opens up you allying with the Dark Eldar and Harlequins with no drawbacks).


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 01:56:20


Post by: Hollow


 Galas wrote:
Rules come and go. Models stay forever. If you like Eldars models and lore, play them!


Great advice!


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 03:39:19


Post by: Niiru


MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

As for the present, apart from a few nerfed units (most notable is the Dire Avengers), Eldar are relatively balanced. People will tell you they suck, but that's only because the all-elf faction (the Ynnari) has a rule that replaces the Craftworld Eldar rule with a superior one. Taken on their own, they don't suck, but with the Ynnari rule in place there's basically no reason to play *just* craftworld (especially since, on top of the rules, it also opens up you allying with the Dark Eldar and Harlequins with no drawbacks).


Even if you only play *just* craftworld units, the Ynnari special rule is just better. However, this may (hopefully) change in the codex, where craftworlds will actually get rules/traits/doctrines of their own. I suspect the Ynnari "trait" will be the one they already have (which is fine).

Unfortunately, at present a lot of Eldar units are heavily overpriced (a problem that the orks currently have too, for some reason), which makes only a very few units actually viable/efficient to use competitively. I didn't play 40k at all in 7th, so I can only assume this is in retaliation to Eldar being a competitive army, which is apparently only allowed these days if you worship the Emperor. They also have some rules that are essentially broken (in the bad way) that makes several of the more iconic units unplayable. This isn't unique to Eldar though, I know Orks are in the same situation, as are Tau (and maybe Necrons, but they always seem to have issues). Next months codex release will tell us a lot about how GW are planning to deal with codices as time goes on.

Maybe it sounds bad that an Eldar player is complaining about this, but then I didn't play any spam lists (never do) and didn't take advantage of any Eldar "power builds" (I didn't actually play any games in 7th edition at all) so I'm totally happy to be annoyed by unnecessary nerfs.


Nykolo wrote:Yikes! Sorry about all that. Despite them being the army I decided on, and still am going to play, I do hope they have been nerfed in 8th edition. I haven't read the index yet, as I am actually waiting until the codex comes out.
I mostly chose them because I am a D&D player, and elves are my favorite race. So I figured "I like elves, Eldar are space elves. Win-win situation!"
Still, I do like their lore (sorry Gamgee), and I think their models are gorgeous. Plus, I enjoy their mobile/specialist playstyle.

P.S: If I am using any terms wrong, please correct me. Lol



Dont be sorry, Imperium players are the ones who get all the best toys, models, and rules. As a filthy Xenos player you have to make do with the leftovers, so you should keep your chin up and enjoy it! Just cross your fingers that GW decide to release some models for Eldar sometime... I think the melee wraithguard are the only new model we've had in like 10 years (craftworld I mean, not counting ynnari), and far too many of the models are still old-school metal I think. (Edit: Actually looking at it, it seems that they replaced a lot of the metal aspect warriors with identical versions in *mild vomit* "finecast", which is... well, was, terrible. They may have improved their finecast over the years, but I'd still prefer to see plastic aspect warrior kits). I've always had a soft spot for wraithlords, though the kit is getting very dated now compared to all the new imperium dreadnoughts (like 10 different variants and still growing). The wraithlord does have a nice ability to be converted and improved on though, if you wish to get into converting models.


Which lore do you like? It might help you to pick a craftworld, and then a paint scheme, and also which models to pick up first. Though I'd recommend not buying too many new models yet, until the codex comes out. The craftworld traits might effect what you can field.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 04:28:57


Post by: Enigma of the Absolute


I think it's more that Elves are a marmite faction to begin with and there's possibly a tendency for Eldar players to match the personality of their army - a bit reserved and superior.

The 'cheese' accusation might hold some weight but I think they also a reputation which has stuck and has been sustained through confirmation bias. 2nd and 7th are really the only periods during which Eldar were pure OP. 3rd-4th Eldar has some strong builds but the internal balance was very poor and many units had perpetually crap rules. As formidable as the star cannon army of doom may have been, it relied on only a small selection from the codex. Same during the holo falcon days - an incredibly effective choice and annoying as hell to play against but nothing else in the codex was especially OP.

 Gamgee wrote:
Cheese, but mostly I think their lore is dumb. Great models though.


What do you find dumb about the Eldar lore? Given that they play a central role in the history of the primary narrative, how would you change it?


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 04:47:18


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


I just hate Elves in general but the army itself has been massively imbalanced for most of its existence. Outside a small time in 5th where they were decent and the current index iteration, they've always been at the near top or actual top.

Then you got the silly myth that they're a hard army to play because everything is specialized...specialization actually makes it easier to play.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 05:06:48


Post by: HuskyWarhammer


I picked up Eldar in 6th (my first army) because I love the lore and idea behind the aspects. Spent a lot of time on forums, trying to learn both what was good and how to play in a balanced way in friendly settings because I, too, saw all of that bitching. Regardless, it still resulted in untold bitching at my "unfair" rules for battle focus by a SM player who charged me from deepstrike in the same game.

Some people will bitch regardless of what army you play - your OP Necron reanimation rules, your free Khorne blood tithe units in 7th, your massive quantity of new Imperium toys and models. Long story short, don't let it bother you. Play what you want to play, have fun, stay away from those jerks, and be a good person to play against. That's what matters.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 05:24:48


Post by: Niiru


You'll find in this game that imperium players will always complain the loudest about other armies having units that kill them. They'll also be the ones saying that units like gallivanting gulliman and scions are perfectly balanced, even though noone else has anything even vaguely equivalent.

It has always been this way in 40k, a side effect of imperium armies being the default/average choice, particularly among less mature players.

Not saying all players are like this, as that's not true, but there's definitely a large community that gives a bad impression.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 08:42:41


Post by: Enigma of the Absolute


Niiru wrote:
You'll find in this game that imperium players will always complain the loudest about other armies having units that kill them. They'll also be the ones saying that units like gallivanting gulliman and scions are perfectly balanced, even though noone else has anything even vaguely equivalent.

It has always been this way in 40k, a side effect of imperium armies being the default/average choice, particularly among less mature players.

Not saying all players are like this, as that's not true, but there's definitely a large community that gives a bad impression.


This does, to some extent, explain why Eldar were considered OP in 3rd ed. They had all the tools to thrive in the MEQ dominated meta. Most MEQ players tooled to face other MEQs whereas less favoured options such as Heavy Bolters were far more effective against T3 4+ save Eldar.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 09:43:36


Post by: hobojebus


Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 10:52:21


Post by: pm713


It doesn't help that historically a few Eldar units are really OP and then these get spammed by TFG's and people who are only into winning so all Eldar are treated as being OP. So if you don't play OP Eldar you get the short end of the stick.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 14:25:57


Post by: Niiru


hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You mean like how the imperium has been treated in every edition ever? And is currently being treated, except doubly so?

Imperium armies, especially space marines, have always been on the receiving end of all the best things, particularly when it comes to new models.

Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.

So we get our current situation, where all of elders moves and abilities that helped them kill space marines have been removed,and the imperium is by a large margin the strongest faction.

I don't recall any ork or tyranid players particularly hating Eldar (I played tyranid back in those days and didn't notice any particular problems playing them), it's mainly just marines. But as has been said before, because marines make up a large share of the player base, anything that kills marines is screamed and cried and tantrumed about until it is eventually removed from the game. And because it gets brought up and complained about so often, other people get used to seeing it and get bored of the complaints, and so the hate multiplies. Internet 101.

Edit: I meant weapons, not moves. I was thinking of Pokemon at the time. Eldar are were super effective against space marines.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 14:48:04


Post by: Azuza001


See, and hear I always thought people didn't like us eldar because of ear envy. :p

Seriously though, at the moment eldar have issues. Dark eldar on the other hand are incredibly powerful and scary to face. I hope the new eldar codexes put us with our dark eldar brothers in terms or competitive ability.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 15:02:27


Post by: Rihgu


Erm, Ork players were not pleased with 7th edition Eldar at all. Plenty of Ork players were not entirely overjoyed that their one good formation (Green Tide) was effectively hard countered by scatbikes, and that they may as well not even put the models on the table because of the foregone conclusion.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 15:08:45


Post by: Niiru


Rihgu wrote:
Erm, Ork players were not pleased with 7th edition Eldar at all. Plenty of Ork players were not entirely overjoyed that their one good formation (Green Tide) was effectively hard countered by scatbikes, and that they may as well not even put the models on the table because of the foregone conclusion.


I was talking about in the previous editions. I took a break from 40k in 7th so I didn't comment on it either way.

It must have taken a lot of bikes on the table to single-handedly wipe out a green tide within the first couple turns though. Wouldn't it take 10 bikes (with a 100% hit and wound success rate, so actually more like 30 or 40 bikes) to just take out one boyz mob?


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 15:21:54


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


As others have said, they've been pretty damned good for yonks now.

And that means their players are like Motorcyclists. You only really notice the idiots, which gives the common perception they only attract powergaming morons.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 15:25:18


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:
Niiru wrote:
You'll find in this game that imperium players will always complain the loudest about other armies having units that kill them. They'll also be the ones saying that units like gallivanting gulliman and scions are perfectly balanced, even though noone else has anything even vaguely equivalent.

It has always been this way in 40k, a side effect of imperium armies being the default/average choice, particularly among less mature players.

Not saying all players are like this, as that's not true, but there's definitely a large community that gives a bad impression.


This does, to some extent, explain why Eldar were considered OP in 3rd ed. They had all the tools to thrive in the MEQ dominated meta. Most MEQ players tooled to face other MEQs whereas less favoured options such as Heavy Bolters were far more effective against T3 4+ save Eldar.


Not like Eldar really took their T3 4+ save units anyways. That was the edition they mostly spammed Suncannons and Altoic lists.


Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.
Hoo boy this is the biggest case of revisionism I've ever seen! I suppose that's why Eldar Suncannons and their fancy Altoic rules in 3rd countered everyone, including the other xenos. And then back further in 2nd where a properly tooled up Exarch could dominate an entire table and made Power Armor useless with even the most basic gun. Oh and then we've got 4th edition skimmerspam which took "Cheese" to new heights along with cheap falcons and good heavy weaponry.

Space Marines have mostly been a middling of the road option when it comes to basic. If your going to include the cheese for the entire faction based upon such I'll separate it out for you because not every Imperium list is the same somehow.

3.5: Blood Angels (Those Baal vehicle rules and overboosts for them allowed them to assault with impunity), CSM combination cheese (typically a siren lord, IW lists.. quite a few!)
4E: I can't remember any dominant SM faction, I mostly remember Fish of Fury, Falcons, and Nids. IG guard lists took hunter-killers on everything though when they were 5 points apiece.
5E: Grey Knights, Necrons before then.
6E: Eldar, deathstars got their start here with Screamerstar.
7E: Pick a faction, this age was terrible. You either had Barkstar, Eldar (pure eldar was the one who thrived), CSM screamerstars.. 7E was terrible

Eldar has consistently been one of the most powerful lists when they get updated, and even then they never dropped to the lowest tier even in 5E for example. They don't just dominate Imperium lists, they dominated every other Xenos as well.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 15:45:31


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, I play Eldar since the 3rd edition.
Eldar has been a very good army over all these editions.
In the 7th ed, they were a bit over the top with all those Windrider Jetbikers and whatnot.
This edition, however, Eldar seems not to be top tier.
So dont worry. Your friends will find out.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 15:53:23


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I play Eldar since the 3rd edition.
Eldar has been a very good army over all these editions.
In the 7th ed, they were a bit over the top with all those Windrider Jetbikers and whatnot.
This edition, however, Eldar seems not to be top tier.
So dont worry. Your friends will find out.

This is literally the lowest they've ever been in their entire existence.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 16:33:41


Post by: hobojebus


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:
Niiru wrote:
You'll find in this game that imperium players will always complain the loudest about other armies having units that kill them. They'll also be the ones saying that units like gallivanting gulliman and scions are perfectly balanced, even though noone else has anything even vaguely equivalent.

It has always been this way in 40k, a side effect of imperium armies being the default/average choice, particularly among less mature players.

Not saying all players are like this, as that's not true, but there's definitely a large community that gives a bad impression.


This does, to some extent, explain why Eldar were considered OP in 3rd ed. They had all the tools to thrive in the MEQ dominated meta. Most MEQ players tooled to face other MEQs whereas less favoured options such as Heavy Bolters were far more effective against T3 4+ save Eldar.


Not like Eldar really took their T3 4+ save units anyways. That was the edition they mostly spammed Suncannons and Altoic lists.


Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.
Hoo boy this is the biggest case of revisionism I've ever seen! I suppose that's why Eldar Suncannons and their fancy Altoic rules in 3rd countered everyone, including the other xenos. And then back further in 2nd where a properly tooled up Exarch could dominate an entire table and made Power Armor useless with even the most basic gun. Oh and then we've got 4th edition skimmerspam which took "Cheese" to new heights along with cheap falcons and good heavy weaponry.

Space Marines have mostly been a middling of the road option when it comes to basic. If your going to include the cheese for the entire faction based upon such I'll separate it out for you because not every Imperium list is the same somehow.

3.5: Blood Angels (Those Baal vehicle rules and overboosts for them allowed them to assault with impunity), CSM combination cheese (typically a siren lord, IW lists.. quite a few!)
4E: I can't remember any dominant SM faction, I mostly remember Fish of Fury, Falcons, and Nids. IG guard lists took hunter-killers on everything though when they were 5 points apiece.
5E: Grey Knights, Necrons before then.
6E: Eldar, deathstars got their start here with Screamerstar.
7E: Pick a faction, this age was terrible. You either had Barkstar, Eldar (pure eldar was the one who thrived), CSM screamerstars.. 7E was terrible

Eldar has consistently been one of the most powerful lists when they get updated, and even then they never dropped to the lowest tier even in 5E for example. They don't just dominate Imperium lists, they dominated every other Xenos as well.


Very well put and saved me from replying in a manner much less elegantly.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 18:09:03


Post by: TheCustomLime


Niiru wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You mean like how the imperium has been treated in every edition ever? And is currently being treated, except doubly so?

Imperium armies, especially space marines, have always been on the receiving end of all the best things, particularly when it comes to new models.

Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.

So we get our current situation, where all of elders moves and abilities that helped them kill space marines have been removed,and the imperium is by a large margin the strongest faction.

I don't recall any ork or tyranid players particularly hating Eldar (I played tyranid back in those days and didn't notice any particular problems playing them), it's mainly just marines. But as has been said before, because marines make up a large share of the player base, anything that kills marines is screamed and cried and tantrumed about until it is eventually removed from the game. And because it gets brought up and complained about so often, other people get used to seeing it and get bored of the complaints, and so the hate multiplies. Internet 101.

Edit: I meant weapons, not moves. I was thinking of Pokemon at the time. Eldar are were super effective against space marines.


This is blatant historical revisionism. Eldar weren't hated just because they countered marines. They were hated because they countered -everything-. I played Imperial Guard in 6e and I could tell you that Eldar were a right pain to play against. Leman Russ shells bouncing off their stupid wave serpent shields. Their Wraithknight spam mowing through platoons of guardsman. Then there was the TauDar shenanigans that made two already OP factions even more overpowered through shared buffs.

Also, during 6th/7th ed Eldar did get straight up better rules than a lot of Imperial armies did. Otherwise Games Workshop would've let Imperial Players take grav-cannons on every bike and made Leman Russ be monstrous creatures with S battle cannons.

OP, if you're set on playing Eldar just play Eldar. You're the one who has to look at the army on the shelf all the time. Make sure it's one you can look at with pride!


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 18:26:05


Post by: Jbz`


 TheCustomLime wrote:
Spoiler:
Niiru wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You mean like how the imperium has been treated in every edition ever? And is currently being treated, except doubly so?

Imperium armies, especially space marines, have always been on the receiving end of all the best things, particularly when it comes to new models.

Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.

So we get our current situation, where all of elders moves and abilities that helped them kill space marines have been removed,and the imperium is by a large margin the strongest faction.

I don't recall any ork or tyranid players particularly hating Eldar (I played tyranid back in those days and didn't notice any particular problems playing them), it's mainly just marines. But as has been said before, because marines make up a large share of the player base, anything that kills marines is screamed and cried and tantrumed about until it is eventually removed from the game. And because it gets brought up and complained about so often, other people get used to seeing it and get bored of the complaints, and so the hate multiplies. Internet 101.

Edit: I meant weapons, not moves. I was thinking of Pokemon at the time. Eldar are were super effective against space marines.


This is blatant historical revisionism. Eldar weren't hated just because they countered marines. They were hated because they countered -everything-. I played Imperial Guard in 6e and I could tell you that Eldar were a right pain to play against. Leman Russ shells bouncing off their stupid wave serpent shields. Their Wraithknight spam mowing through platoons of guardsman. Then there was the TauDar shenanigans that made two already OP factions even more overpowered through shared buffs.

Also, during 6th/7th ed Eldar did get straight up better rules than a lot of Imperial armies did. Otherwise Games Workshop would've let Imperial Players take grav-cannons on every bike and made Leman Russ be monstrous creatures with S battle cannons.

OP, if you're set on playing Eldar just play Eldar. You're the one who has to look at the army on the shelf all the time. Make sure it's one you can look at with pride!


And he was referring to 4th edition where the serpent shield did pretty much nothing,
Wraithknights didn't exist,
Taudar wasn't a thing then either.

6th and 7th Edition Eldar were crazy powerful- but in 4th/5th they really weren't all that

And I'd still rate them lower than Space marines in 6th/7th edition who had all the tools they needed to easily destroy the "problem units" ridiculously easily.
(I am not a craftworld player either- Dark Eldar are my #1 army)


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 18:38:56


Post by: TheCustomLime


Jbz` wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:
Spoiler:
Niiru wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You mean like how the imperium has been treated in every edition ever? And is currently being treated, except doubly so?

Imperium armies, especially space marines, have always been on the receiving end of all the best things, particularly when it comes to new models.

Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.

So we get our current situation, where all of elders moves and abilities that helped them kill space marines have been removed,and the imperium is by a large margin the strongest faction.

I don't recall any ork or tyranid players particularly hating Eldar (I played tyranid back in those days and didn't notice any particular problems playing them), it's mainly just marines. But as has been said before, because marines make up a large share of the player base, anything that kills marines is screamed and cried and tantrumed about until it is eventually removed from the game. And because it gets brought up and complained about so often, other people get used to seeing it and get bored of the complaints, and so the hate multiplies. Internet 101.

Edit: I meant weapons, not moves. I was thinking of Pokemon at the time. Eldar are were super effective against space marines.


This is blatant historical revisionism. Eldar weren't hated just because they countered marines. They were hated because they countered -everything-. I played Imperial Guard in 6e and I could tell you that Eldar were a right pain to play against. Leman Russ shells bouncing off their stupid wave serpent shields. Their Wraithknight spam mowing through platoons of guardsman. Then there was the TauDar shenanigans that made two already OP factions even more overpowered through shared buffs.

Also, during 6th/7th ed Eldar did get straight up better rules than a lot of Imperial armies did. Otherwise Games Workshop would've let Imperial Players take grav-cannons on every bike and made Leman Russ be monstrous creatures with S battle cannons.

OP, if you're set on playing Eldar just play Eldar. You're the one who has to look at the army on the shelf all the time. Make sure it's one you can look at with pride!


And he was referring to 4th edition where the serpent shield did pretty much nothing,
Wraithknights didn't exist,
Taudar wasn't a thing then either.

6th and 7th Edition Eldar were crazy powerful- but in 4th/5th they really weren't all that

And I'd still rate them lower than Space marines in 6th/7th edition who had all the tools they needed to easily destroy the "problem units" ridiculously easily.
(I am not a craftworld player either- Dark Eldar are my #1 army)


It's hard to tell what edition he is referring to in his argument when he makes statement like "every edition ever" and "Always". And even so my last point still stands. I remember 7th ed well. Eldar still got better rules than pretty much everyone else. D-weapons on regular infantry? 10 point assault cannons on jetbikes? The only thing that made Space Marine lists even viable were a very few specific builds.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 18:48:57


Post by: Insectum7


Niiru wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You mean like how the imperium has been treated in every edition ever? And is currently being treated, except doubly so?

Imperium armies, especially space marines, have always been on the receiving end of all the best things, particularly when it comes to new models.

Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.

So we get our current situation, where all of elders moves and abilities that helped them kill space marines have been removed,and the imperium is by a large margin the strongest faction.

I don't recall any ork or tyranid players particularly hating Eldar (I played tyranid back in those days and didn't notice any particular problems playing them), it's mainly just marines. But as has been said before, because marines make up a large share of the player base, anything that kills marines is screamed and cried and tantrumed about until it is eventually removed from the game. And because it gets brought up and complained about so often, other people get used to seeing it and get bored of the complaints, and so the hate multiplies. Internet 101.

Edit: I meant weapons, not moves. I was thinking of Pokemon at the time. Eldar are were super effective against space marines.


I mostly agree with this. Non marine players were pretty ok with Eldar for the most part. In 3rd Starcannons were rough but really they just needed to be 15 or 20 points instead of 10 on most platforms and they would have been fine. In 2nd Eldar were nasty but Marines had their own nastiness to bring. In 4th Eldar had very tough vehicles, but could still be outplayed.

Scatterbikes in 7th were off the rails though, and Warp Spiders had incredibly frustrating mechanics.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 19:00:53


Post by: Niiru


 TheCustomLime wrote:
Jbz` wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:
Spoiler:
Niiru wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You mean like how the imperium has been treated in every edition ever? And is currently being treated, except doubly so?

Imperium armies, especially space marines, have always been on the receiving end of all the best things, particularly when it comes to new models.

Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.

So we get our current situation, where all of elders moves and abilities that helped them kill space marines have been removed,and the imperium is by a large margin the strongest faction.

I don't recall any ork or tyranid players particularly hating Eldar (I played tyranid back in those days and didn't notice any particular problems playing them), it's mainly just marines. But as has been said before, because marines make up a large share of the player base, anything that kills marines is screamed and cried and tantrumed about until it is eventually removed from the game. And because it gets brought up and complained about so often, other people get used to seeing it and get bored of the complaints, and so the hate multiplies. Internet 101.

Edit: I meant weapons, not moves. I was thinking of Pokemon at the time. Eldar are were super effective against space marines.


This is blatant historical revisionism. Eldar weren't hated just because they countered marines. They were hated because they countered -everything-. I played Imperial Guard in 6e and I could tell you that Eldar were a right pain to play against. Leman Russ shells bouncing off their stupid wave serpent shields. Their Wraithknight spam mowing through platoons of guardsman. Then there was the TauDar shenanigans that made two already OP factions even more overpowered through shared buffs.

Also, during 6th/7th ed Eldar did get straight up better rules than a lot of Imperial armies did. Otherwise Games Workshop would've let Imperial Players take grav-cannons on every bike and made Leman Russ be monstrous creatures with S battle cannons.

OP, if you're set on playing Eldar just play Eldar. You're the one who has to look at the army on the shelf all the time. Make sure it's one you can look at with pride!


And he was referring to 4th edition where the serpent shield did pretty much nothing,
Wraithknights didn't exist,
Taudar wasn't a thing then either.

6th and 7th Edition Eldar were crazy powerful- but in 4th/5th they really weren't all that

And I'd still rate them lower than Space marines in 6th/7th edition who had all the tools they needed to easily destroy the "problem units" ridiculously easily.
(I am not a craftworld player either- Dark Eldar are my #1 army)


It's hard to tell what edition he is referring to in his argument when he makes statement like "every edition ever" and "Always". And even so my last point still stands. I remember 7th ed well. Eldar still got better rules than pretty much everyone else. D-weapons on regular infantry? 10 point assault cannons on jetbikes? The only thing that made Space Marine lists even viable were a very few specific builds.



That's because my arguement covered both models and rules, as this is a modelling hobby as much as a gaming one, and the imperium has often (if not always) been given the largest selection of units and updated models. This is even more the case nowadays, where the imperium has a huge selection of infantry, tank and walker options and models, doubly so if you include forgeworld and horus heresy models.



Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 19:05:45


Post by: TheCustomLime


I agree with you on that. Imperium gets too many model releases. I think the entire reason they made Primaris Space Marines is so that they could give Space Marine players new models and they were already scraping the bottom of the barrel with the Stormhawk/Centurions. I would love to see plastic aspects.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 19:15:18


Post by: hobojebus


Imperium gets more because people can empathize with humans easily but getting into the mind frame of xenos is harder.

Anyone can picture themselves as a space marine or a guardsman, only certain deviants can imagine themself with knife ears or as a souless skeleton




Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 19:20:37


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Insectum7 wrote:
Niiru wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You mean like how the imperium has been treated in every edition ever? And is currently being treated, except doubly so?

Imperium armies, especially space marines, have always been on the receiving end of all the best things, particularly when it comes to new models.

Eldar shine because they used to be the paper to space marines rock. They are the army that were the hard counter to space marines. Which is why marine players hated them, and cried that they couldnt face roll over Eldar like they could other armies.

So we get our current situation, where all of elders moves and abilities that helped them kill space marines have been removed,and the imperium is by a large margin the strongest faction.

I don't recall any ork or tyranid players particularly hating Eldar (I played tyranid back in those days and didn't notice any particular problems playing them), it's mainly just marines. But as has been said before, because marines make up a large share of the player base, anything that kills marines is screamed and cried and tantrumed about until it is eventually removed from the game. And because it gets brought up and complained about so often, other people get used to seeing it and get bored of the complaints, and so the hate multiplies. Internet 101.

Edit: I meant weapons, not moves. I was thinking of Pokemon at the time. Eldar are were super effective against space marines.


I mostly agree with this. Non marine players were pretty ok with Eldar for the most part. In 3rd Starcannons were rough but really they just needed to be 15 or 20 points instead of 10 on most platforms and they would have been fine. In 2nd Eldar were nasty but Marines had their own nastiness to bring. In 4th Eldar had very tough vehicles, but could still be outplayed.

Scatterbikes in 7th were off the rails though, and Warp Spiders had incredibly frustrating mechanics.

More blatant revisionism. I started with Necrons in 4th and can tell you that Eldar were stupid strong for almost all their existence.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 19:21:07


Post by: koooaei


hobojebus wrote:
Imperium gets more because people can empathize with humans easily but getting into the mind frame of xenos is harder.
Anyone can picture themselves as a space marine or a guardsman, only certain deviants can imagine themself with knife ears or as a souless skeleton
Or a hooligan mushroom.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 19:42:29


Post by: hobojebus


No the english are quite good at hooligan mushroom we do that every saturday.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 20:22:40


Post by: pismakron


As others has pointed out, it is because of 6th edition waveserpent+serpenshield spam, closely folowed by the 7th edition wraithknight insta-win button.

But that wasn't enough. Many players would then ally their eldar army with tau, so they could bring a rip-tide or two. Or get a couple of farseers on jetbikes both rolling for invisibility. The jetseers could stay in reserves, pop in and get their buffs, and you could do nothing about it. It was ridiculous.

Everytime people complain about 8th edition, everyone should think for a few minutes about how awfully broken 7th edition had become.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 22:00:35


Post by: lolman1c


This would explain why the one eldar player in our coub seems so sad all thd time. I never played him in 7th but looks way different to everyone else who is having fun. (I got told he powered game a lot so karma I geuss...)


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 22:52:43


Post by: ZebioLizard2



And he was referring to 4th edition where the serpent shield did pretty much nothing,
Wraithknights didn't exist,
Taudar wasn't a thing then either.


4th edition didn't need that. It had Skimmerspam, but more specifically it had Falcons and Wave Serpents under 4th edition's absurd powerful skimmer rules.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 23:04:09


Post by: MechaEmperor7000


No one really remembered Eldar Skimmer spam in 4th cuz Tau had fish of fury and Space Marines had the absurdly cheap and annoying Landspeeders. Eldar skimmers, while kinda annoying, were "ok" because if you did kit them out they became absurdly expensive.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 23:40:48


Post by: Enigma of the Absolute


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Not like Eldar really took their T3 4+ save units anyways. That was the edition they mostly spammed Suncannons and Altoic lists.


Of course Eldar players took those units. Some of them (Banshees, Reapers, Dragons) were decent, others (Avengers, Hawks) not so much. If we judge Eldar by the handful of spam units that make up a competitive tourney list then yes, they were top tier in 3rd and 4th. The lists as a whole were hardly brimming with cheese.

I can honestly say I never saw Alaitoc outside of tourneys. Rolling on a disruption table isn't tabletop wargaming and I don't know anyone who is prepared to play that way or to play against it for more than a handful of (non-competitive) games.

The list I used to see often was Ulthwe with a large seer council, min maxed guardians with star cannons and wraithlords. This was a powerful list but hardly unbeatable. The main problem with the star cannon was the sheer number of platforms available in every FOC slot. You could max out your Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy with nothing but Starcannon platforms. I played mechanised Biel Tan so in my 3rd ed list they were limited to Wave Serpents.

4th - remove the holo-field and you have a pretty middling codex overall. 5th ed showed just how middling it was as Eldar were close to the bottom tier for most of that edition. Don't get me started on those horrid DAVU lists that players took to try and play Eldar competitively.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/01 23:46:29


Post by: Insectum7


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

More blatant revisionism. I started with Necrons in 4th and can tell you that Eldar were stupid strong for almost all their existence.


I also played Necrons in 3rd/4th and never had a problem with them.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 00:13:37


Post by: Enigma of the Absolute


The disparity between the perception held by Eldar players and their opponents in 4th ed brings to mind the 4th ed CSM codex. It was bland and poorly balanced but it contained a handful of very strong choices which made it a 'top tier' codex in late 4th/early 5th notwithstanding that CSM players were not especially fond of it.

The Eldar 7th ed codex is a good example of an OP codex in that it was difficult to build a weak list from a wide selection of units within the codex. 5th ed GK or 3.5 CSM both fall into this category. 3rd and 4th ed Eldar certainly do not.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 01:41:01


Post by: TangoTwoBravo


We hate Eldar because they were really really powerful in 2nd Ed and Nottingham decided to change the game instead of just the Eldar. All they had to do was reel in their Psychic powers a little, but they threw out the baby with the bathwater and we lost the best set of rules ever!


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 03:51:09


Post by: MechaEmperor7000


 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:
The disparity between the perception held by Eldar players and their opponents in 4th ed brings to mind the 4th ed CSM codex. It was bland and poorly balanced but it contained a handful of very strong choices which made it a 'top tier' codex in late 4th/early 5th notwithstanding that CSM players were not especially fond of it.

The Eldar 7th ed codex is a good example of an OP codex in that it was difficult to build a weak list from a wide selection of units within the codex. 5th ed GK or 3.5 CSM both fall into this category. 3rd and 4th ed Eldar certainly do not.


I'd argue that Eldar 7th was more like CSM 4th rather than 3.5, as it had basically one extremely set of OP units (Wraithguard, Warp Spiders, Scatbike, Wraithknight) while the rest of the army ranged from "meh" to "unusable". Again, how many people you saw were running autarch-led Banshees/Scorpions or people complaining about Falcons and Vaul's Wrath Support batteries being broken? (or even just used). My Alaitoc Ranger army is basically a joke at this point.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 04:27:34


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Not like Eldar really took their T3 4+ save units anyways. That was the edition they mostly spammed Suncannons and Altoic lists.


Of course Eldar players took those units. Some of them (Banshees, Reapers, Dragons) were decent, others (Avengers, Hawks) not so much. If we judge Eldar by the handful of spam units that make up a competitive tourney list then yes, they were top tier in 3rd and 4th. The lists as a whole were hardly brimming with cheese.

I can honestly say I never saw Alaitoc outside of tourneys. Rolling on a disruption table isn't tabletop wargaming and I don't know anyone who is prepared to play that way or to play against it for more than a handful of (non-competitive) games.

The list I used to see often was Ulthwe with a large seer council, min maxed guardians with star cannons and wraithlords. This was a powerful list but hardly unbeatable. The main problem with the star cannon was the sheer number of platforms available in every FOC slot. You could max out your Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy with nothing but Starcannon platforms. I played mechanised Biel Tan so in my 3rd ed list they were limited to Wave Serpents.

4th - remove the holo-field and you have a pretty middling codex overall. 5th ed showed just how middling it was as Eldar were close to the bottom tier for most of that edition. Don't get me started on those horrid DAVU lists that players took to try and play Eldar competitively.


We are talking about why. Most of the Eldar I saw were taking those sorts of list and as a result that's what colored the perception of them.

Also 5th edition also took away alot of the massive benefits to Skimmers which nerfed much of the bite to Eldar


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 04:39:54


Post by: JimOnMars


GW is about to release the Eldar codex.

I am hopeful that they have learned their lesson, but I have a nagging fear that the much loved balance of 8E is about to get tossed.

You miiiight just wait a bit until the codex comes out, if you don't want to play an army that gets overbuffed and undercosted. I wouldn't put it past them.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 08:23:32


Post by: craftworld_uk


Everyone else hates the guys at the top.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 08:28:23


Post by: wuestenfux


6th and 7th Edition Eldar were crazy powerful- but in 4th/5th they really weren't all that

I remember a German GT in the 5th edition.
From the top 7 players, 5 were Eldar including me. The rest had nothing to do with the outcome of the tournament.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 08:35:19


Post by: Apple fox


It is rather sad how players will react, I got the reaction that i must be TFG since i mention i had a elder army.

By someone trying to get players back into 40 after it had died out, I was sort of amazed. It was at the point where we had maybe 4 players and he was already implying he didn't want me playing.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 09:17:09


Post by: wuestenfux


Apple fox wrote:
It is rather sad how players will react, I got the reaction that i must be TFG since i mention i had a elder army.

By someone trying to get players back into 40 after it had died out, I was sort of amazed. It was at the point where we had maybe 4 players and he was already implying he didn't want me playing.

This is certainly an overreaction.
Eldar is still strong but lost an edge when compared with the previous editions.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/02 11:05:46


Post by: hobojebus


You can't say that until the dex is out.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 02:37:18


Post by: ClassicCarraway


Seems like every battle report I watch on YouTube that says it has Eldar is really just a farseer and wraith units, with no actual Eldar beyond the farseer.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 02:57:23


Post by: admironheart


Eldar are strong with so much to choose from and so much diversity...rivaling the Imperial forces.

For the most part the other strong armies like Orks, Nids, Crons and Tau all are pretty limited to one style of play. Sure lots of unit variations....but still when you see Tau you see lots of long range shooting, Orks and Nids will outnumber you and Crons seem to have the most limited choices....like a pared down Marine list with fun rules.

Eldar has always been able to play ok as an infantry list, mobile tech list, psychic list, jetbike list, warpjumping list and some others depending on the edition. They are just a different army than most.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 03:03:55


Post by: Niiru


 admironheart wrote:
Eldar are strong with so much to choose from and so much diversity...rivaling the Imperial forces.

For the most part the other strong armies like Orks, Nids, Crons and Tau all are pretty limited to one style of play. Sure lots of unit variations....but still when you see Tau you see lots of long range shooting, Orks and Nids will outnumber you and Crons seem to have the most limited choices....like a pared down Marine list with fun rules.

Eldar has always been able to play ok as an infantry list, mobile tech list, psychic list, jetbike list, warpjumping list and some others depending on the edition. They are just a different army than most.



Hmm... not so sure about infantry lists, eldar infantry is expensive and fragile (not a good combination). Footdar is a thing, but it generally seems to involve extremely careful play, along with a bunch of units like jetbikes to take the heat from your footsoldiers. Mobile tech and jetbikes are the same thing really.

Eldar can pretty much do Mobile tech, and mobile tech with psychic support. Which is fine, it's what Eldar should be good at. Just saying it's not like Eldar are all that diverse - its not like you can run a dreadnought/MC list (like SM and nids can) or an armoured company (like IG) or a horde list (also like IG, and orks and nids).


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 03:20:49


Post by: Mantle


I've played eldar since 3rd edition and like you I am an elf fan in games like D&D so space elves and I really like their lore, 7th edition was horrible, I hated the formations from the beginning because it made so many armies miles better than others, I just refused to buy in to the scatter laser jetbike spam (I have 6 with shuriken cannons that worked out quite well this edition) and warp spider spam (hoping for plastic aspect warriors some time soon). My gaming group tend to play strong lists but nothing stupid apart from one player who decided to go for dark angels ravenwing so I'd use ynnari against him. You'll see a lot of hate online because of the power players that flocked to eldar when they realised how easily things could be abused, now I'm hoping the codex brings craftworlds up to power to compete with death guard or at least be viable to take rather than ynnari being a straight up free upgrade, I'm hoping for individual craftworld traits that are fairly powerful but only benefit rather select units such as ulth'wei guardians getting a decent buff, maybe alaitoc rangers cause mortal wounds on a wound of 5+ instead of 6 (similar to an old rule they had) and maybe saim Hannah jetbikes ignoring the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons. All in all you've picked one of the best armies aesthetically in my opinion and only time will tell on the codex, they just need to update the range!


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 04:13:31


Post by: NurglesR0T


 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Seems like every battle report I watch on YouTube that says it has Eldar is really just a farseer and wraith units, with no actual Eldar beyond the farseer.


Which just highlights the issue with balance within the codex. Hopefully when the codex is released it addresses that and brings back each of the Aspect Shrines to the game


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 09:18:28


Post by: morgoth


Niiru wrote:
You'll find in this game that imperium players will always complain the loudest about other armies having units that kill them. They'll also be the ones saying that units like gallivanting gulliman and scions are perfectly balanced, even though noone else has anything even vaguely equivalent.

It has always been this way in 40k, a side effect of imperium armies being the default/average choice, particularly among less mature players.

Not saying all players are like this, as that's not true, but there's definitely a large community that gives a bad impression.


Way too true... but then it's not like the majority can be wrong, this is democracy after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
hobojebus wrote:
Op in 4th edition and then again in 6th & 7th, classic case of fanboys in the dev team screwing over balance in favour of making their favorite army the best.


You should probably define OP for this to make sense.

In 4th edition, Eldar had a SHOT at competing, but were by no means the top army in 40K.
In 5th edition, they were nearly garbage and the best builds had a shot at somewhat landing not too far from top 10.
In 6th edition, until the Eldar codex, they were garbage.
In 6th edition, after the Eldar codex, they were top tier, nearly on par with Tau, Chaos Daemons, Necrons and Space Marines for the rest of the edition (i.e. they weren't ever above 57% win against other competitive armies).
In 7th edition, before the Dark Eldar codex, they were in pretty much the same position.
In 7th edition, before the Eldar codex, they were a bit lower.
In 7th edition, after the Eldar codex, they were back on top, still duking it out with other very competitive armies.

And then GW released the Space Marine Powers, and super_best_friends Electro displacement deathstars started getting a 75%+ win rate, were banned from many competitive events and generally roflstomped anything until the end of 7th.

But we'll all remember the Eldar as OP, because for less than 24 months, they dared take the top spot from an Imperial or Traitor army.

How dare those space elves steal the crown of the sons of the emperor... I wonder.

In total truth, they never were as dominant as IG has been for early 8th - or other codexes in other editions - and always required quite a bit of skill to play, but they're kind of a hate magnet anyway, probably because their miniatures look so much better than all the other ranges .... mon-keighs are just jelly that's all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rihgu wrote:
Erm, Ork players were not pleased with 7th edition Eldar at all. Plenty of Ork players were not entirely overjoyed that their one good formation (Green Tide) was effectively hard countered by scatbikes, and that they may as well not even put the models on the table because of the foregone conclusion.


Are you talking about an edition where all of the Ork codex was garbage unfit for competition?

Because I wouldn't be hating only on "Eldar" about that.

I'm fairly sure even a crappy AM army with manticores would've ruined your day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mantle wrote:
I've played eldar since 3rd edition and like you I am an elf fan in games like D&D so space elves and I really like their lore, 7th edition was horrible, I hated the formations from the beginning because it made so many armies miles better than others, I just refused to buy in to the scatter laser jetbike spam (I have 6 with shuriken cannons that worked out quite well this edition) and warp spider spam (hoping for plastic aspect warriors some time soon). My gaming group tend to play strong lists but nothing stupid apart from one player who decided to go for dark angels ravenwing so I'd use ynnari against him. You'll see a lot of hate online because of the power players that flocked to eldar when they realised how easily things could be abused, now I'm hoping the codex brings craftworlds up to power to compete with death guard or at least be viable to take rather than ynnari being a straight up free upgrade, I'm hoping for individual craftworld traits that are fairly powerful but only benefit rather select units such as ulth'wei guardians getting a decent buff, maybe alaitoc rangers cause mortal wounds on a wound of 5+ instead of 6 (similar to an old rule they had) and maybe saim Hannah jetbikes ignoring the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons. All in all you've picked one of the best armies aesthetically in my opinion and only time will tell on the codex, they just need to update the range!


Exactly, best miniatures ever, rules will be fine now and then and that's good enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

3.5: Blood Angels (Those Baal vehicle rules and overboosts for them allowed them to assault with impunity), CSM combination cheese (typically a siren lord, IW lists.. quite a few!)
4E: I can't remember any dominant SM faction, I mostly remember Fish of Fury, Falcons, and Nids. IG guard lists took hunter-killers on everything though when they were 5 points apiece.
5E: Grey Knights, Necrons before then.
6E: Eldar, deathstars got their start here with Screamerstar.


Meanwhile, in the real world, there was a thing called Leafblower, which happens to be the most dominant list of its era.
And also, Necrons were crazy good at the beginning of 6th, which lasted at least until Tau or even Eldar codex.

Maybe some of your hatred is unjustified...


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 12:49:01


Post by: FarseerReborn


7th edition eldar losed badly to SM demicompany & Skyhammer formations et simila...

They were top tier, together with many other armies (SM, demons, Decurion+wraithspam necrons, etc)...

8th edition eldar are crap compared to Astra Militarum, Death Guard, Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids...

Eldar are low tier now.



Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 14:16:59


Post by: Martel732


FarseerReborn wrote:
7th edition eldar losed badly to SM demicompany & Skyhammer formations et simila...

They were top tier, together with many other armies (SM, demons, Decurion+wraithspam necrons, etc)...

8th edition eldar are crap compared to Astra Militarum, Death Guard, Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids...

Eldar are low tier now.



Nothing in this post is accurate except the losing to IG and Nids part.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 15:00:32


Post by: Formosa


Mainly due to them being either broken or disproportionately power for nearly every edition of the game.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 16:04:26


Post by: CAPTAIN COWARD


In Dawn of War, you had to hunt down every Eldar building for ages as they could teleport hem around the battlefield.It was very annoying and they only way to stop this happening was to have squads of Imperial Guardsmen everywhere.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 16:14:57


Post by: Formosa


 CAPTAIN COWARD wrote:
In Dawn of War, you had to hunt down every Eldar building for ages as they could teleport hem around the battlefield.It was very annoying and they only way to stop this happening was to have squads of Imperial Guardsmen everywhere.


Dont forget the Dev Bias for eldar either!


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 16:49:55


Post by: pm713


 CAPTAIN COWARD wrote:
In Dawn of War, you had to hunt down every Eldar building for ages as they could teleport hem around the battlefield.It was very annoying and they only way to stop this happening was to have squads of Imperial Guardsmen everywhere.

They also had their builder unit teleporting huge distances and building stealthed buildings while you did that.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 17:26:23


Post by: Champion of Slaanesh


Speaking primarily as a chaos player id sooner play against a eldar army than a imperial one.
While eldar could be annoyingly powerful you could atleast attempt to have a relatively fun game where as
Space marines if playing ultrasmurfs could easily using 2 of the doctorines give the majority of their army re roll to hit of atleast 1s in the shooting phase for 2 turns
Be more powerful psykers than chaos sorcerors (evem though the lore often puts this the other way around)
With grav weapobs they could easily wipe any unit which wasnt a cultist off the board and cultists generally got bolters aimed at them.
Now am i denying eldar had some annoying crap like wraith knights and scat bikes? Nope but atleast i didnt have eldar armies removing what felt like 50% of my army in one turn.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 17:27:47


Post by: Martel732


Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Speaking primarily as a chaos player id sooner play against a eldar army than a imperial one.
While eldar could be annoyingly powerful you could atleast attempt to have a relatively fun game where as
Space marines if playing ultrasmurfs could easily using 2 of the doctorines give the majority of their army re roll to hit of atleast 1s in the shooting phase for 2 turns
Be more powerful psykers than chaos sorcerors (evem though the lore often puts this the other way around)
With grav weapobs they could easily wipe any unit which wasnt a cultist off the board and cultists generally got bolters aimed at them.
Now am i denying eldar had some annoying crap like wraith knights and scat bikes? Nope but atleast i didnt have eldar armies removing what felt like 50% of my army in one turn.


Yeah, it was 75% of the army. I had many more close games vs ultras than Eldar. The White scar gladius was arguably more brutal, though. So many grav cannons.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 17:41:30


Post by: Champion of Slaanesh


Martel732 wrote:
Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Speaking primarily as a chaos player id sooner play against a eldar army than a imperial one.
While eldar could be annoyingly powerful you could atleast attempt to have a relatively fun game where as
Space marines if playing ultrasmurfs could easily using 2 of the doctorines give the majority of their army re roll to hit of atleast 1s in the shooting phase for 2 turns
Be more powerful psykers than chaos sorcerors (evem though the lore often puts this the other way around)
With grav weapobs they could easily wipe any unit which wasnt a cultist off the board and cultists generally got bolters aimed at them.
Now am i denying eldar had some annoying crap like wraith knights and scat bikes? Nope but atleast i didnt have eldar armies removing what felt like 50% of my army in one turn.


Yeah, it was 75% of the army. I had many more close games vs ultras than Eldar. The White scar gladius was arguably more brutal, though. So many grav cannons.

I found vs eldar i had more close games than marines atleast against eldar i felt like i could do something. My poor black legion being out black legioned by smurfs oh the shame :(


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 17:50:15


Post by: Martel732


Remember that the marines still had and have lots of useless units. Tac squads were only good as grav cannon life support. The ultrasmurfs didn't get the scout cheese, so you could outmaneuver the wall of rhinos quite frequently. Every single thing in a 7th ed eldar list was lethal. Every. Single. Thing.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 18:21:42


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Seems like every battle report I watch on YouTube that says it has Eldar is really just a farseer and wraith units, with no actual Eldar beyond the farseer.


ooh such fibs, there's usually at least a pilot or two in the wraithflyers...err wait and the wave serpent drivers, some Eldar list contain upwards of 6 living Eldar


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 18:35:40


Post by: pm713


Martel732 wrote:
Remember that the marines still had and have lots of useless units. Tac squads were only good as grav cannon life support. The ultrasmurfs didn't get the scout cheese, so you could outmaneuver the wall of rhinos quite frequently. Every single thing in a 7th ed eldar list was lethal. Every. Single. Thing.

But not everything Eldar.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 18:38:15


Post by: Martel732


No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 18:41:52


Post by: pm713


Martel732 wrote:
No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.

I could say the same about Space Marines.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 18:52:50


Post by: Martel732


pm713 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.

I could say the same about Space Marines.


You could, but there was still 4 useless marines per tac squad and a fifth guy with a grav cannon. EVERY bike had a scatterlaser. There's way less waste in the 7th ed Eldar lists. The only thing keeping the marines in the game were the free vehicles. Take away gladius and you got BA or CSM. Even the marine good units were awful in comparison to Eldar units.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 20:21:05


Post by: shortymcnostrill


Martel732 wrote:
Remember that the marines still had and have lots of useless units. Tac squads were only good as grav cannon life support. The ultrasmurfs didn't get the scout cheese, so you could outmaneuver the wall of rhinos quite frequently. Every single thing in a 7th ed eldar list was lethal. Every. Single. Thing.


My storm guardians respectfully disagree with this statement. Also my vypers and falcons, the poor guys. That said, I do agree that there was some formidable cheese in our 7th ed dex.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 20:50:38


Post by: Karhedron


Among the living troops, Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons are both pretty good for the points. Banshees are surprisingly decent in this edition too. They are one of the cheapest ways to unlock Wave Serpents and now that they actually assault on the turn they disembark, they stand a chance of living long enough to hit something with those power swords. S3 is a drawback but a Farseer Dooming their target makes them a lot more dangerous.

I have always loved my Banshees since 1st edition and thi is the first time since about 4th edition that they are actually worth fielding again.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 21:16:28


Post by: Helvost


I think eldar is hated because

1: Some people just don't like elves because they think that elves have a superiority complex or something.

2: Eldar has had units over the years that have been abused by competitive players. The problem is usually that the codices only give 2-5 competitive units that I guess the writers intended to be mixed into an army, but they end up getting spammed and ruining part of the competitive meta. There are some units that I still have never played with competitively over 10 years of playing eldar: Falcons, Swooping Hawks, Guardians, Striking Scorpions, Vypers, Howling Banshees, Wraithlords, Fire Prisms,

3. I think there's an old grudge between eldar and Imperial players (SM and IG) over who will get the most attention from games-workshop.



Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 21:43:07


Post by: Jancoran


 Nykolo wrote:
I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?


The WraithKnight singlehandedly turned what was a very competitive army into a hated one. The Scatterlaser Jetbikes was really too much in most peoples opinions as well and when you combined it with making them troops choices (so that they got the Objective Secured rule) the shenanigans were easy to imagine.

Those two units, but especially the WraithKnight, made Eldar a serious pain in the ass. Frankly some Eldar players I know looked positively bored during their games. That's never a good sign for the opponent.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/04 22:05:42


Post by: HuskyWarhammer


Martel732 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
No, but that stuff simply weren't in the lists.

I could say the same about Space Marines.


You could, but there was still 4 useless marines per tac squad and a fifth guy with a grav cannon. EVERY bike had a scatterlaser. There's way less waste in the 7th ed Eldar lists. The only thing keeping the marines in the game were the free vehicles. Take away gladius and you got BA or CSM. Even the marine good units were awful in comparison to Eldar units.


There's a big difference between powerful things being in a codex and abusing the overly powerful things. Spam scatbikes and gladius are both highly powerful tournament-level cheese. Normal bikes and normal marines aren't awful. Same goes for falcons, land raiders, vypers, rhinos/razorbacks, etc., etc. If "EVERY bike had a scatterlaser," that is an issue with the person you're playing against kitting them out that way moreso than the codex.

That all being said, this is a debate that's been well asked and answered by now.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/05 01:59:42


Post by: pm713


 Helvost wrote:


3. I think there's an old grudge between eldar and Imperial players (SM and IG) over who will get the most attention from games-workshop.


There's a clear winner now at least.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/05 04:33:00


Post by: Vankraken


 Jancoran wrote:
 Nykolo wrote:
I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?


The WraithKnight singlehandedly turned what was a very competitive army into a hated one. The Scatterlaser Jetbikes was really too much in most peoples opinions as well and when you combined it with making them troops choices (so that they got the Objective Secured rule) the shenanigans were easy to imagine.

Those two units, but especially the WraithKnight, made Eldar a serious pain in the ass. Frankly some Eldar players I know looked positively bored during their games. That's never a good sign for the opponent.


Don't forget Aspect Host Warp Spiders, those things where seriously broken to deal with and their combination of pseudo fearless, jump shoot jump and then jump again when being shot at, nearly always wounding on 2s with their guns, and the aspect host making them even more effective with basically no tax. Also their super reliable psychic powers and access to lots of S weapons didn't help either.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/05 17:01:23


Post by: Jancoran


 Vankraken wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
 Nykolo wrote:
I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?


The WraithKnight singlehandedly turned what was a very competitive army into a hated one. The Scatterlaser Jetbikes was really too much in most peoples opinions as well and when you combined it with making them troops choices (so that they got the Objective Secured rule) the shenanigans were easy to imagine.

Those two units, but especially the WraithKnight, made Eldar a serious pain in the ass. Frankly some Eldar players I know looked positively bored during their games. That's never a good sign for the opponent.


Don't forget Aspect Host Warp Spiders, those things where seriously broken to deal with and their combination of pseudo fearless, jump shoot jump and then jump again when being shot at, nearly always wounding on 2s with their guns, and the aspect host making them even more effective with basically no tax. Also their super reliable psychic powers and access to lots of S weapons didn't help either.


I understand why you would say that but Warp Spiders were only "crazy" in the context of an opponent that put no effort into pushing the field or assault. I know the conventional wisdom in 6E and 7E said it was guns or bust but I did famously and never had an enormous problem withthe Warp spider piece of the puzzle. That was strictly a matter of matchups. the Scatterbikes and Wtraithknight on the other hand were simply unfair advantages that no force could "overcome" with matchups.

But i do get why people might not have liked Warp Spiders.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/05 17:05:25


Post by: Martel732


Warp spiders could be overcome with discipline; the discipline not to shoot at them, but rather move fast yourself and assault. The problem being that anything that could threaten them got hosed down by both scat bikes and the spiders themselves. So, yes, Jancoran is correct in that the original sin was the firepower granted by scatbikes.


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/06 07:39:25


Post by: pm713


 Jancoran wrote:
 Vankraken wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
 Nykolo wrote:
I am a new player to 40k. I decided for my first army that I would play Eldar.

However, after looking at YouTube comments and a few forums, I noticed that Eldar are quite hated by many people.

So, noob question, what made the Eldar so hated in the 40k community?


The WraithKnight singlehandedly turned what was a very competitive army into a hated one. The Scatterlaser Jetbikes was really too much in most peoples opinions as well and when you combined it with making them troops choices (so that they got the Objective Secured rule) the shenanigans were easy to imagine.

Those two units, but especially the WraithKnight, made Eldar a serious pain in the ass. Frankly some Eldar players I know looked positively bored during their games. That's never a good sign for the opponent.


Don't forget Aspect Host Warp Spiders, those things where seriously broken to deal with and their combination of pseudo fearless, jump shoot jump and then jump again when being shot at, nearly always wounding on 2s with their guns, and the aspect host making them even more effective with basically no tax. Also their super reliable psychic powers and access to lots of S weapons didn't help either.


I understand why you would say that but Warp Spiders were only "crazy" in the context of an opponent that put no effort into pushing the field or assault. I know the conventional wisdom in 6E and 7E said it was guns or bust but I did famously and never had an enormous problem withthe Warp spider piece of the puzzle. That was strictly a matter of matchups. the Scatterbikes and Wtraithknight on the other hand were simply unfair advantages that no force could "overcome" with matchups.

But i do get why people might not have liked Warp Spiders.

I once apologised for using them..... Poor Tyranid player


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/06 08:24:12


Post by: AnomanderRake


The basic problem of the Eldar is that their internal balance has been nigh-constantly shot all to hell by poor writing. Instead of making any of the basics of the army function in any way GW has always handed the Eldar a couple of absurdly mis-designed units that enable a couple of cookie-cutter crutch builds and then waltzed off leaving the giant chunks of the Codex they can't be arsed to do anything with behind and the hate gathering behind the short list of stupid units that make up 90-95% of the Eldar most people ever see on the table.

In 4e-5e it was holofield Falcons. In 6e it was Serpent-spam. In 7e it was Wraithknights and Scatterbikes. Now it's Wraithguard and Hemlocks. And the root of the problem is that GW doesn't know how to make the army actually work (or doesn't want to for some reason), so they shortcut off a couple of crutches to prop them up and go home. And the shortcuts inevitably produce an irritating top-tier tournament army made of the most powerful three to four units in the book copy-pasted until you hit the points limit.

(I may be venting. In trying to write a functional Corsair book for 8th to use until the joke that is the IA Xenos index gets overwritten I've come to the conclusion that GW's basic assumptions behind how the Eldar should operate haven't been updated since 3e and the current ruleset is a barely-functional mess held together by spit and distortion weapons.)


Why are Eldar hated? @ 2017/10/08 21:50:22


Post by: Dr. Mills


Eldar have always been a typically decent army, but from what I gathered from friends who played 5th to 7th was the sheer abundance of rules that broke the internal Eldar balance and some units being extremely powerful.

I think the major point of Eldar criticism is the former - internal balance has been awful since 4th edition. Several out and out must haves that mitigate the need for diversity in an army is a sign of very poor rules writing and/or lack of playtesting. Scatter Laser spam, Wraithknights and Warp spiders were the outlier units of 7th. Taking anything else was simply a tax. However, several issues of the Eldar ware born of particular bad rules in 7th anyway. Instant death put pressure on everyone to use as much S6/8 guns as possible to simply delete units. Add in vehicles being outclassed badly by monstrous creatures and you had a recipe for disaster.

Warp spider rules in 7th are regarded (in my FLGS anyway) as the litmus test for appalling rules that not only make a unit extremely effective but incredibly annoying to fight as well.