I never had any inntrest in weak humans, for me it is machines. steampunk, present time, future, aliens it dont matter to me aslong as the weak and usless organic lifeforms are not represented.
while i love the jacks in warmachine, i see it more played as an infantry game then a robot game sadly..

so, any 1 know of any games that has robots/mechas only and not a rulebook that rivals the ikea cataloge in number of pages?

What about people piloting mechs?

Id recommend Heavy Gear Blitz. Over all, the game is pretty simple.

You can however get deep into the weeds like infinity with stuff that's close to hacking/anti hacking but not quite as bad as infinity can get.

As its core, you are futuristic tanks and squads of mechs aiming to capture objectives and blow up other mechs. Combats quick and dirty.

There is a quick start rules and videos out there to learn how to play. Blitz is the newest version.

Rulebook is big, but its free and well orgionized

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
I never had any inntrest in weak humans, for me it is machines. steampunk, present time, future, aliens it dont matter to me aslong as the weak and usless organic lifeforms are not represented.
while i love the jacks in warmachine, i see it more played as an infantry game then a robot game sadly..
so, any 1 know of any games that has robots/mechas only and not a rulebook that rivals the ikea cataloge in number of pages?

Okay, mechs "only" is a tall order, how about "mostly"?

An old standard is Battletech.
For about 4 models the classic Battletech works:
http://bg.battletech.com/
For larger battles, they streamlined things a fair bit in "Alphastrike":
http://bg.battletech.com/news/battleblog/alpha-strike-the-tabletop-miniatures-rulebook/
I would recommend this based on your wanting a shorter rulebook.

Heavy Gear was the #2 stomping robots for me for quite a while.:
http://www.dp9.com/heavygearblitz

Other stuff I have seen around:
https://www.reapermini.com/Games/CAVNote: This game I keep seeing mentioned.
http://gkrgame.com/
https://secure.greenbriergames.com/gne/product/heavy-steam/
http://mobileframezero.com/mfz/
http://combots.net/rules.php
http://privateerpress.com/grind-rules-available-in-pdf
http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products/ogre6e/Note: Was made a long time ago and was fun: big giant robot land battleship vs a ton of conventional weapons.
https://stonemaiergames.com/games/scythe/
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/139769/robotech-rpg-tactics NOTE: Kickstarter is in big trouble with this manufacturer and is part way "done" if at all. Pick up cheap on ebay or the like.

While Infinity has great models, the rules...! So very, very complex.

Other Sci-Fi model games:

Battletech, the Granddady of Mecha games. Currently undergoing a bit of a Renaissance. Awesome introductory box set, and a new rule book released, Catalyst Games seems to be trying to make this game great again. Classic Battletech still has you filling in bubble sheets and moving on a hex map with rules dating back to the early 80's. Alpha Strike is a more simplified, modern ruleset that takes a lot of the granularity, bubble sheets, and hex maps out of the game and still maintains the mech combat flavor. Plastic Mechs are being resculpted and looking good.

Heavy Gear Blitz: New edition last year, and a kickstarter for more plastic models. The models themselves are OK, nothing great. Fast, and dynamic, the rules still fill a bit clunky. Army creation is still a mess. Published by Dream Pod Nine out of Canada.

CAV: Combat Assault Vehicles, currently available from Reaper Miniatures. More RPG like, but still a fun game with big mechs stomping around on a battlefield. Models available in metal and/or plastic.

Yeah, Battletech is what you are after. While it has combined arms, you don't have to use them. In fact, they just released the BattleMech Manual, which is basically just the 'Mech rules. If you want it crunchy and methodical, standard Battletech is the way to go.

If you want larger battles, Battletech has Alpha Strike. You can run very large games quickly and again, can easily be played 'Mech only.

Thanks, these suggestions gives me atleast a place to begin =)

7th edition 40k.

/snark

In all seriousness, I'm actually seconding Battletech. There's a decent amount of bookkeeping due to the fact each section of a single mech (each leg, each arm, torso, head, that sort of thing) has its own health, armor, etc., but it's still pretty enjoyable to play and watch, IMO.

It is not specifically about mecha, but you could look at the current playtest file for my game Kaiju Rampage (working title of the game which is in fact Giant Monster Rampage 4th edition).

The game allows you to create any colossal combatants you want and fight in a setting you construct.

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/189434/Kaiju-Rampage-Playtest-File?manufacturers_id=705

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

so, any 1 know of any games that has robots/mechas only and not a rulebook that rivals the ikea cataloge in number of pages?

I don't know of many robots-only game, but there are two very good games for those who want to only use mecha only and those who want a concise and fast-playing set of rules.

My personal favorite is Mech Attack. It's a very well written game and probably the best $6 you can spend in this hobby.
http://www.wargamevault.com/product/79303/Armor-Grid-Mech-Attack
The $4 expansion is worth it too just for the improved terrain rules.
It has just about everything good about Battletech (stompy customizable robots, damage grid, etc) except that it plays in 1/4 the time and the rulebook is about 15 pages long. It has rules for combined arms, but mecha is clearly the focus of the game. We've played alot of mech-only games and it's tons of fun. It's ideally suited for around 8 units per player. The Game includes printable 2.5D miniatures but it's designed for you to quickly stat up any mech miniature you might have so you're not limited to any particular minaitures line.

At the club we usually play it in 10mm with rebased mechwarrior clix figures.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2017/03/03/adepticon-prep-part-1-mech-attack-scenario-playtest/
Here's an older game with just mecha.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2012/05/14/battle-for-addicks-mech-attack-battle/

Every year at Adepticon I run a giant sized battle where we double the measurements and play it with a variety of big 28mm scale mecha on a huge urban layout.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2017/03/30/aar-mech-attack-at-adepticon-2017/
The ruleset is so tight that I can take 6-8 players with no knowledge of the game, give them each 6-8 units and conclude a full battle in less than 3 hours including teaching, unit selection, etc.. It's a ton of fun.

My second suggestion would be Alpha Strike as mentioned previously. It's an even more streamlined game that is deliberately aimed at putting dozens of units on the table. It's very variable in terms of number of rules. There's a basic ruleset that is about 20 pages, a more advanced that probably gets close to 30-40 and then there are a host of optional rules. It's also nice in that hundreds (perhaps thousands) of printable unit cards are available for free from the company.

Here's an early game we played of Alpha Strike with more of my thoughts on the game:
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2013/12/03/alpha-strike-game-report-and-review/

As for the Battletech ruleset itself, if you like alot of bookkeeping, simulationist rules and want to design your mech down to the finest detail then I'd give it a shot. Otherwise, I can't in good concience recommend it to you. Despite sublte tweaks over the past 30 years, the game plays like the clunky 80's ruleset it is, and the game time ramps up dramatically as you add units. A Lance Vs Lance (4v4) battle can take hours and god help you if you decided you want a few lances on each side...

The best thing about Battletech is the fantastic background (It's by far my favorite sci-fi universe) which is why -especially in 10mm- I like to game in the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe, using Battletech units (rebased mechwarrior clix) but using the Mech Attack rules.

https://ospreypublishing.com/horizon-wars

Check out Horizon Wars. Made by a man who just wanted to see giant robots blowing the hell out of each other. Excellent game

Stubram wrote:
https://ospreypublishing.com/horizon-wars

Check out Horizon Wars. Made by a man who just wanted to see giant robots blowing the hell out of each other. Excellent game

Another vote for Horizon Wars. While not strictly "just mecha" you can totally play it that way, and it's a great system.

Dream Pod 9 also made Jovian Chronicles, which had a number of editions and iterations (including their Lightning Strike and an upcoming fleet scale game with mecha). Originally it was a RPG that basically had functional tabletop battle rules with vectored 3D movement (i.e. a nod at physics). The setting is basically Gundam with the serial numbers filed off but Earth is the bad guy.

 John Prins wrote:
Dream Pod 9 also made Jovian Chronicles, which had a number of editions and iterations (including their Lightning Strike and an upcoming fleet scale game with mecha). Originally it was a RPG that basically had functional tabletop battle rules with vectored 3D movement (i.e. a nod at physics). The setting is basically Gundam with the serial numbers filed off but Earth is the bad guy.

So... just Gundam?
Sieg Zeon!

Just wanted to toss out three more free rules-lite suggestions for mech games and one purchaseable option.

Sean Patten (Necromundicon/IronHands) has Gundam
http://www.ironhands.com/MSera.htm
and Votoms rulesets
http://www.ironhands.com/votoms.htm
Both use a variant of his house rules system. It's worth clicking through just to see the models he's made for them and the Votoms campaign logs are some of the best narrative Battle reports I've ever read/seen. Outstanding terrain.

Mekatac (not to be confused with "Mech Attack!") Giant Stompy Robots edition is a cleanup of an earlier free mech combat system. Aimed at Battletech'ish combat
http://home.dejazzd.com/broadsword/Giant_Stompy_Robots/GSR_Downloads_Page_Files/MEKATAC_GSRE_1_0.pdf

Ganesha games (maker of Song of Blades and Heroes) has a very Gundam'y ruleset called Samurai Robots Battle Royale. that I've heard good things about. LIke their other games it's quite affordable too.
http://www.ganeshagames.net/index.php?cPath=1_11&osCsid=viu00l3bg5f39br9uoith6ler3
It's also avilable on Wargames Vault and there is a companion ruleset "Mighty Monsters" so you can have mechs vs Kaiju if you want to.

Rihgu wrote:

So... just Gundam?
Sieg Zeon!

Yes, DP9's bias on this one is pretty clear. Basically the Earth economy collapsed for a couple centuries until a totalitarian regime finally ascended and decided that the space colonies should fund their rebuilding (they're stuck in conquest mode, really).

Shamless plug for my game, Mechadrome

http://www.gangfightgames.com/mechadrome/

The game is in a bit of limbo right now, but we are planning to update the rules and start producing some new models next year.

I had started work on a mecha (vs. kaiju) game called Gunslingers. I've attached the base rules for the game, as well as a spreadsheet of the weapons, chassis and equipment for the mecha. I started on, but had not reached a playable point for the monsters - which were to be termed Behemoths.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
so, any 1 know of any games that has robots/mechas only and not a rulebook that rivals the ikea cataloge in number of pages?

I'm not aware off hand of any mecha games that don't include infantry and non-mecha vehicles in the rules. AFAIK, BattleTech, Heavy Gear, and CAV are probably the three biggest mecha games right now, and while all are centered on mecha, they all allow for combined arms forces.

One of the guys from the Robotech Kickstarter (complaints) forum Mike1975 has put out his own home-brew game "Dimensional Warfare".
It has a fair bit of detail and seems pretty good so this may scratch the itch as well.
What makes this game nice to pick up is he worked on a TON on unit cards for keeping track of things similar to Battletech/Alphastrike cards.

I have a game called JUGs: Big Stompy Robots that is free on my blog. Check my Sig and then on the right under Free Games. There are rules for tanks and infantry, but the focus is on Big Stompy Robots.

I have also used the rules for Rampant Stars for Mecha battle recently as well, and it worked good. That is also on my blog in the same place as Jugs.

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/10/rampant-stars-battle-report-ambush.html

A better question may be are there any good lines of mechs of a similar scale that look as good as say, the Mechwarrior Online, or equivalent for the type of mechs you like.

I think that's what's really missing. Even Robotech/Macross designs are pretty old, and while iconic, we're actually seeing revisions of the designs that were done few newer media.

There's a market for someone to make a line a AAA quality mech designs and parts for people to use in their games.

Well, outside the world of Robotech the Macross Franchise has certainly not been idle, and it has been releasing new designs for years (this year starts another new series, actually).

Even then, Macross always had an advantage in that regard with the VF-1 being based off an actual, working plane and all.

Are there any rulesets (fan official or otherwise) that dumb down Battletech? I love the universe but I find the rules, at least when I last looked, to be really impenetrable. (I haven't tried Alpha Strike).

I loved MW clix, and would like something like that.

 Ouze wrote:
Are there any rulesets (fan official or otherwise) that dumb down Battletech? I love the universe but I find the rules, at least when I last looked, to be really impenetrable. (I haven't tried Alpha Strike).

I loved MW clix, and would like something like that.

Then give Alpha Strike a go!

However, from the sounds of things, it might be a bit too simple being as you like the Clix game. I was really surprised at how well it captured the BT universe feel and I've read far too many BT novels than is good for me.

Other than that, the previously mentioned ruleset by Mike1975 is more detailed than Alpha Strike and he's put a lot of work into making up statcards for hundreds of BT mechs (as well as just about every other stompy robot in existence!)

 Ouze wrote:
Are there any rulesets (fan official or otherwise) that dumb down Battletech? I love the universe but I find the rules, at least when I last looked, to be really impenetrable. (I haven't tried Alpha Strike).

I loved MW clix, and would like something like that.

Alpha strike is great for big battles (10+ units per side), but it is quite streamlined. It does away with much of the customizability of battletech as well as dropping the damage grid and much of the differentiation between weapons. All this to say, it really feels like the battletech universe, but it doesn't feel like battletech the game.

If you want a dumbed down battletech, and want a battletech sized game (5-10 units per player) you really owe it to yourself to try Mech Attack. It's cheap, but well done, and has all that most folks like about Battletech (damage grid, heat tracking varied and mutilple weapons systems, etc) except that it plays in 1/4 the time and is incredibly simple to learn. All the links are above in my earlier post. We play the game with mechwarrior clix figs (rebased) and have even done up a fair number of BT mechs into Mech Attack statlines.

Like you, I love the battletech universe (and have a massive collection of the books) but I find the classic rules too clunky to be enjoyable. Mech Attack has scratched the battletech itch for me for the past 6 years or so and continues to deliver.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vertrucio wrote:
A better question may be are there any good lines of mechs of a similar scale that look as good as say, the Mechwarrior Online, or equivalent for the type of mechs you like.

I think that's what's really missing. Even Robotech/Macross designs are pretty old, and while iconic, we're actually seeing revisions of the designs that were done few newer media.

There's a market for someone to make a line a AAA quality mech designs and parts for people to use in their games.

Have you checked out the Reaper CAV line? The designs are (for the most part) considerably more contemporary than classic battletech designs. They're currently made in bones plastic, so they're rather affordable too. They have alot in common with many of the mechwarrior clix designs, with canopy style cockpits and a nice chunky design aesthetic.

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/CAV:StrikeOperations

I've painted a couple and while I prefer the metal material they were made of previously (and I think you can still call and order them in metal) the Bones material is fine and much more affordable.

I always liked the Dictator model, and now I might even buy one! I have allt he Cav 1st Edition books.

 Easy E wrote:
I always liked the Dictator model, and now I might even buy one! I have allt he Cav 1st Edition books.

Don't worry, Harmony Gold will go after that Officer's Pod/Glaug look alike anytime now.......

My KOG light game can be played that way, but like many of the others here, it's actually a combined arms battle game, due to the inclusion of armor and infantry.

 megatrons2nd wrote:


Don't worry, Harmony Gold will go after that Officer's Pod/Glaug look alike anytime now.......

Maybe, but that sculpt and some of the other BT/Macross look-alikes have got to be almost 10 years now and no action has been taken. They were with Rogue Talon games for some years as pretty deliberate Battletech proxies before they merged with Reaper to do CAV:SO (3d edition) and it's been several years since they merged.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Easy E wrote:
I always liked the Dictator model, and now I might even buy one! I have allt he Cav 1st Edition books.

The CAV first edition books are pretty cool. I never quite got my head around the universe, but there's alot of great mech designs, especially in the 2 "Journals of Recognition" (AKA Tech Readouts). For a while you could buy all three (Rulebook and 2 Journals) from Troll and Toad for about the cost of shipping. I assume that's not the case anymore...

In terms of board games there's Giga-Robo and GKR: Heavy Hitters (coming out soon).

I'm working on one myself: http://titanomachina.blogspot.ca/

I'm still waiting on Giga-Robo...


I dream of playing (or making?!?) a game based on the cool 'anime' of years past:

More likely that some movie exec tries to make that a "shared universe".

This may seem off the wall, but might I suggest an RPG? Mekton Zeta has mecha creation rules, in-depth mecha combat rules, and is intended to use miniatures. While any official miniatures may be hard to find these days, you could always use Heavy Gear, Battletech, etc mecha.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/25403/Mekton-Zeta?it=1

The 2.0 version of "MobileSuit Skirmish" was just released and it's free.

It's a colaborative fan effort and is probably the best looking fan ruleset I've ever seen.
http://mobilesuitskirmish.proboards.com/thread/219/mobile-suit-skirmish-rulebook-version

Haven't read it through yet, but I skimmed over it and it looks very well done. They've even got it in print and device resolution versions.

Nurglitch wrote:
In terms of board games there's Giga-Robo and GKR: Heavy Hitters (coming out soon).

I'm working on one myself: http://titanomachina.blogspot.ca/

yea looking forward to getting GKR next month

 Eilif wrote:
The 2.0 version of "MobileSuit Skirmish" was just released and it's free.

It's a colaborative fan effort and is probably the best looking fan ruleset I've ever seen.
http://mobilesuitskirmish.proboards.com/thread/219/mobile-suit-skirmish-rulebook-version

Haven't read it through yet, but I skimmed over it and it looks very well done. They've even got it in print and device resolution versions.

have to take a look at this one in the next few days.

 Eilif wrote:
The 2.0 version of "MobileSuit Skirmish" was just released and it's free.

It's a colaborative fan effort and is probably the best looking fan ruleset I've ever seen.
http://mobilesuitskirmish.proboards.com/thread/219/mobile-suit-skirmish-rulebook-version

Haven't read it through yet, but I skimmed over it and it looks very well done. They've even got it in print and device resolution versions.

Thanks for the heads-up. I have downloaded and look forward to giving it a try.

 Easy E wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
The 2.0 version of "MobileSuit Skirmish" was just released and it's free.

It's a colaborative fan effort and is probably the best looking fan ruleset I've ever seen.
http://mobilesuitskirmish.proboards.com/thread/219/mobile-suit-skirmish-rulebook-version

Haven't read it through yet, but I skimmed over it and it looks very well done. They've even got it in print and device resolution versions.

Thanks for the heads-up. I have downloaded and look forward to giving it a try.

You're very welcome. I had no idea there was a 1.0, but one of the author posted about it on Lead Adventure and I thought you all might be interested.

 Eilif wrote:
The 2.0 version of "MobileSuit Skirmish" was just released and it's free.

It's a colaborative fan effort and is probably the best looking fan ruleset I've ever seen.
http://mobilesuitskirmish.proboards.com/thread/219/mobile-suit-skirmish-rulebook-version

Haven't read it through yet, but I skimmed over it and it looks very well done. They've even got it in print and device resolution versions.

It is pretty fantastic. I am a bit biased since I am part of the forums and helped work on 2.0, but it is one of the best free rulesets I have ever seen.

The guy on the forum macrossmartin who led the 2.0 effort is currently working on updating all the Gundam One Year War suits to 2.0 rules (they will be out in a few months from now) and we are playtesting suits for Iron Blooded Orphans.

All the series and factions suits will be split into sourcebooks, and we are working to make every Gundam series/era balanced against each other.

You can go pure mecha, or do a combined arms approach (i.e. infantry, APCs, tanks and aircraft). The rules are written so that you can either play in 1:400 using the Gashapon figures or the 1:144 line.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:


The rules are written so that you can either play in 1:400 using the Gashapon figures or the 1:144 line.

this was going to be my next question, cuz what good is reules whitout models..
i live in scandenavia, anything not GW, StarWars or Privateer Press dont get shelfspace/web shop inventory space, so any recommendations for a web site that sells the 144 line?

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:


The rules are written so that you can either play in 1:400 using the Gashapon figures or the 1:144 line.

this was going to be my next question, cuz what good is reules whitout models..
i live in scandenavia, anything not GW, StarWars or Privateer Press dont get shelfspace/web shop inventory space, so any recommendations for a web site that sells the 144 line?

I normally get my stuff of eBay or Amazon if I don't feel like trekking to a hobby store. Besides a few really hard to find kits they work great for me.

There is HobbyLink Japan, I haven't ordered from them but hear good stuff about them.

https://hlj.com

There is also Hobby Search, which tends to more frequently have harder to find kits I might be looking for.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/gundam/

Feel free to sign up on our forum and ask us any questions, or I can answer questions you may have (to the best of my ability) on this forum.

Note that a 1/144 Gundam stands something like 5" tall. It's a really big model.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Note that a 1/144 Gundam stands something like 5" tall. It's a really big model.

That is true, but in Mobile Suit Skirmish, you are only running 3-6 suits on average. If you mix in tanks, planes and infantry like myself it really makes the suits look as intimidating as they are meant to be. They are monstrous metal war machines, and it is honestly no different than using the new Primaris Dreadnought, a (Deamon) Primarch, or other Lords of War. The difference is that Mobile Suit Skirmish was designed from the ground up to be able to handle large death machines in it... since that is what it was created around.

The 120mm machine gun that comes standard on a Zaku II, while not as effective against heavy mobile suits unless fired en masse, is a fearsome weapon when turned on anything smaller than itself.

That, and your average 5" tall 1/144 High Grade model kit (that comes in multiple shades of colored plastic, so paint is optional) runs roughly $15-18. They can often be found for less, I bought 6 mobile suit kits last night at $7.99 each, no way you could buy that many large 40k kits brand new at that price. Don't get me wrong, I play 40k as well, but I feel far less guilty about Gundam purchases than 40k purchases.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:


The rules are written so that you can either play in 1:400 using the Gashapon figures or the 1:144 line.

this was going to be my next question, cuz what good is reules whitout models..
i live in scandenavia, anything not GW, StarWars or Privateer Press dont get shelfspace/web shop inventory space, so any recommendations for a web site that sells the 144 line?

I normally get my stuff of eBay or Amazon if I don't feel like trekking to a hobby store. Besides a few really hard to find kits they work great for me.

There is HobbyLink Japan, I haven't ordered from them but hear good stuff about them.

https://hlj.com

There is also Hobby Search, which tends to more frequently have harder to find kits I might be looking for.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/gundam/

Feel free to sign up on our forum and ask us any questions, or I can answer questions you may have (to the best of my ability) on this forum.

I'm in the USA and I've ordered from both of those shops with no problems. If you are willing to go with the slow shipping methods it can be quite a bargain. Amazon is slowly picking up the kind of things that they sell but they still tend to have the best price and selection.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Note that a 1/144 Gundam stands something like 5" tall. It's a really big model.

That is true, but in Mobile Suit Skirmish, you are only running 3-6 suits on average

What if I just want 1 "suit", like, say Sazabi? Fair against 6 GMs, right?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Note that a 1/144 Gundam stands something like 5" tall. It's a really big model.

That is true, but in Mobile Suit Skirmish, you are only running 3-6 suits on average

What if I just want 1 "suit", like, say Sazabi? Fair against 6 GMs, right?

Depending on the suit/mobile armor it totally is. We work as a community to create stats and playtest them on our forum.

Shoot, my force I am working on doesn't even have a mobile suit in it. It is tanks, APCs, planes and a Core Booster.

GW Specialist Games is working on a new version of Adeptus Titanicus, which will be all mecha.

OK, cool! Thanks!

This looks great!

Where would I find appropriately sized tanks, vehicles, infantry and - perhaps most importantly - terrain for this?

frankr wrote:
GW Specialist Games is working on a new version of Adeptus Titanicus, which will be all mecha.

old news.
but it is taking too long whit all the development changes and possibly release pushbacks due to other releases getting pushed ahead of AT

I haven't seen the ruleset yet, but if we're talking 6 OYW GMs, I can't see how this could be a fair fight unless you've got a rookie pilot in the Sazabi and veteran/aces in the GMs.

The GM customs deployed aboard the Albion were roughly matched/exceeded the original Gundam and that was just about 3 years later and the Sazabi is a top-of-the-line prototype from 10 years later.

From the title, the ruleset seems to be based on/around the OYW so I'm curious to see if/how it scales up for the later conflicts.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Note that a 1/144 Gundam stands something like 5" tall. It's a really big model.

That is true, but in Mobile Suit Skirmish, you are only running 3-6 suits on average

What if I just want 1 "suit", like, say Sazabi? Fair against 6 GMs, right?

 Alpharius wrote:
This looks great!

Where would I find appropriately sized tanks, vehicles, infantry and - perhaps most importantly - terrain for this?

Also, would 10mm scale terrain work for this game too?

 Visceral_Mass wrote:
It is not specifically about mecha, but you could look at the current playtest file for my game Kaiju Rampage (working title of the game which is in fact Giant Monster Rampage 4th edition).

The game allows you to create any colossal combatants you want and fight in a setting you construct.

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/189434/Kaiju-Rampage-Playtest-File?manufacturers_id=705

I am in the final stages of playtesting Kaiju Rampage (which will likely be retitled to Giant Monster Rampage 4th edition once it is published).

I am hoping to have the game ready for publication by the end of this year and could use a few more playtesters. I can send the file to anyone capable of playing a few games over the next month or two and giving feedback about those games. I want to make the game work as well for mecha vs mecha as it does for monsters.

Anyone interested can email me at radioactive_press@yahoo.com

cannonfodr wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What if I just want 1 "suit", like, say Sazabi? Fair against 6 GMs, right?

I haven't seen the ruleset yet, but if we're talking 6 OYW GMs, I can't see how this could be a fair fight unless you've got a rookie pilot in the Sazabi and veteran/aces in the GMs.

The GM customs deployed aboard the Albion were roughly matched/exceeded the original Gundam and that was just about 3 years later and the Sazabi is a top-of-the-line prototype from 10 years later.

From the title, the ruleset seems to be based on/around the OYW so I'm curious to see if/how it scales up for the later conflicts.

The smiley was there for a reason. I picked Sazabi as my example, because Dendrobium / Neue Ziel vs Ball is too obviously a corner case.

What I think the game should do well would be things like 08MS or Trinity, based on mass-production MS of either side. Boss fights are problematic, as they're supposed to chew through regular stuff. Even something like MP FAZZ is a balance problem against Zakus.

Have people received GKR or Giga-Robo yet? I'm curious about these games because when I looked into them they had a lot of parallels to the game I'm working on publishing.

That's a "NO" on Giga-Robo.

I don't think they've started shipping yet?

I saw some reviews of Giga-Robo on BGG that made me think it was out last summer.

Edit: Reading up on the KS corrects that erroneous line of thought!

Have several suggestions:

Battletech. Classic stompy robots we all love... marauders, warhammers, etc. It isn't clunky or lengthy. 3 mechs vs 3 mechs doesn't take that long, and all you need are three sheets each side then (fill in bubbles as your mech takes damage... not that hard). Game isn't very hard, has intro simple rules, and can be made more complex if you wish with various expansion rulesets. Hell my wife has played and loves it.... yet she will not touch 40k as she says that system is too complex.

Battletech alpha strike. Battletech simplified into a very quick smirmish game instead of a board game (no hex system). Similar to the mechwarrior clix game but uses free to print rules and cards instead of clix bases. Very fast and fun. Classic stompy robots? Check!

Gundam Collection Tactical Battles. Yup, gundams. Very fast and simple game using 1/400 minis. Can also use 1/144 scale figures, the action figures, etc. Rules are free to print... could juat print gundam stand ups and play for free.

Mobile Suit Skirmish Game: Yup, gundams again. More in depth game system that brings more of the fluff and flavor of gundam into the rules. Very easy to learn if you play wargames. Rules are free again, just need minis or standups. Could print pics of gundams for standups, use 1/400 minis, or 1/144 models/figures again.


I play these four and think they are great. They all focus around the mechs, unlike other games which have occasional mecha in their systems. Another great thing is both gundams and battletech have been around since the 80's... yup almost 40 years of storyline, fluff, quality. Its easy to find media, books, video games, tv shows, toys, models, games, other fans, etc.

 455_PWR wrote:
Have several suggestions:

Battletech. Classic stompy robots we all love... marauders, warhammers, etc. It isn't clunky or lengthy. 3 mechs vs 3 mechs doesn't take that long, and all you need are three sheets each side then (fill in bubbles as your mech takes damage... not that hard). Game isn't very hard, has intro simple rules, and can be made more complex if you wish with various expansion rulesets. Hell my wife has played and loves it.... yet she will not touch 40k as she says that system is too complex.

Battletech alpha strike. Battletech simplified into a very quick smirmish game instead of a board game (no hex system). Similar to the mechwarrior clix game but uses free to print rules and cards instead of clix bases. Very fast and fun. Classic stompy robots? Check!

Gundam Collection Tactical Battles. Yup, gundams. Very fast and simple game using 1/400 minis. Can also use 1/144 scale figures, the action figures, etc. Rules are free to print... could juat print gundam stand ups and play for free.

Mobile Suit Skirmish Game: Yup, gundams again. More in depth game system that brings more of the fluff and flavor of gundam into the rules. Very easy to learn if you play wargames. Rules are free again, just need minis or standups. Could print pics of gundams for standups, use 1/400 minis, or 1/144 models/figures again.


I play these four and think they are great. They all focus around the mechs, unlike other games which have occasional mecha in their systems. Another great thing is both gundams and battletech have been around since the 80's... yup almost 40 years of storyline, fluff, quality. Its easy to find media, books, video games, tv shows, toys, models, games, other fans, etc.

I have Heavy Gear models. does the system work for Mobile Suit Skirmish with heavy gear?

There's no reason you couldn't use 1/144 HG models instead of 1/400 Gundam.

Or, you could try KOG light, which is specifically for HG models:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/668519.page

If you have lots of left over legos, another option is Mobile Frame Zero.

It's a mecha game where you build all of your stuff from lego pieces.

http://mobileframezero.com/mfz/

I'm still looking for that Super Robot genre mini based game!!!

Super robot genre? Wouldn't that be Giga-Robo?

Yeah, but that's not quite the wargame I'm looking for.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of what the guys are doing with Mobile Suit Skirmish.

Plus, it annoyingly isn't out yet!

This game:

http://mobilesuitskirmish.proboards.com

?

Yes, that one.

Not sure if there's an existing line of affordable Super Robot stuff though, compared to Gundam.

Though to be fair, nothing will compare to the availability, price and quality if the various Gundam lines!

There are kaiju games like Monster Island, Giant Monster Rampage or Mighty Monsters that are light and seem like fun.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is for pure robot/mecha games, so it just struck me: What're the salient differences between giant robots and giant monsters?

Well, aside from the mechanical/organic thing?

Super Robots and Kaiju kinda sorta exist in the same SF space.

Pacific Rim being the most recent example?

Nurglitch wrote:
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is for pure robot/mecha games, so it just struck me: What're the salient differences between giant robots and giant monsters?

In 40k, which has rapidly evolved to a robot / mecha / kaiju game, I'd say there is none.

I'm thinking in terms of genre. In Pacific Rim they mix it up, with the kaiju having specialized organs specifically to defeat their estwhile opponents, but in more classic kaiji like Millennium-era Godzilla films Kiryu isn't just Godzilla with different guns.

OK, where do Evangelion fit in he monster/robot spectrum?

It's kind of neat that it starts with classic giant robot tropes, but ends essentially with giant monsters. Aside from that, that's what I'm trying to put into words.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK, where do Evangelion fit in he monster/robot spectrum?

It was mainly a deconstruction of the super robot genre (Mazinger Z and its ilk), so...

Yes, but it's also battling giant monsters.

Okay, so I've given it some thought and the main difference seems to be that monsters are metaphors for things outside of our control, whereas the robots are metaphors for being able to take on those things that were once outside of our control.

Nurglitch wrote:
Okay, so I've given it some thought and the main difference seems to be that monsters are metaphors for things outside of our control, whereas the robots are metaphors for being able to take on those things that were once outside of our control.

Wow, that's a much deeper answer than I was expecting to see on this thread. Nicely done!

Just found out that Riverhorse has a Pacific Rim game coming to KS on March 12...

Movie is due for release on March 23. Interesting choice of KS timing. The more the merrier though.

Same timing as the Teminator Genesys game v movie also by River Horse

That one didn’t do well, did it?

Any thoughts on how this one will do?

Any previews out there that any have seen?

IMO, it's going to be less a game than a souvenir. Very much like the Harry Potter Wizards Chess set that I own. Except that chess is chess.

Better comparison point might be Imperial Knights Renegade?

 Alpharius wrote:
Just found out that Riverhorse has a Pacific Rim game coming to KS on March 12...

I just sold off all of my old demo figures and pre-ordered a bunch of the Tamashii Nations Pacific Rim robots and the vinyl kaiju in preparation for when I finish the current edition of Giant Monster Rampage and start running demos this fall.


I'm definitely interested in the game, but the miniatures would have to be better than the Bandai figures for me to want to invest in it.

I think it's really hard to make a game for a given property. So much easier to start from scratch. In terms of selling what you've made though, I can see it working out well enough to keep doing it.

 Nurglitch wrote:
I think it's really hard to make a game for a given property. So much easier to start from scratch. In terms of selling what you've made though, I can see it working out well enough to keep doing it.

I think it really depends on the property. It would have been much easier for me to design a Godzilla game, since there is a set group of monsters as well as set "series" within the films that would have made setting limits and designing effects easier than what I have done with Giant Monster Rampage, which is design a game meant to simulate many different kaiju and mecha series with combatants that vary greatly in abilities and power levels.

 Visceral_Mass wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
I think it's really hard to make a game for a given property. So much easier to start from scratch. In terms of selling what you've made though, I can see it working out well enough to keep doing it.

I think it really depends on the property. It would have been much easier for me to design a Godzilla game, since there is a set group of monsters as well as set "series" within the films that would have made setting limits and designing effects easier than what I have done with Giant Monster Rampage, which is design a game meant to simulate many different kaiju and mecha series with combatants that vary greatly in abilities and power levels.

Where are you with it?

Can we get a "State of the Giant Monster Rampage" address?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Visceral_Mass wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
I think it's really hard to make a game for a given property. So much easier to start from scratch. In terms of selling what you've made though, I can see it working out well enough to keep doing it.

I think it really depends on the property. It would have been much easier for me to design a Godzilla game, since there is a set group of monsters as well as set "series" within the films that would have made setting limits and designing effects easier than what I have done with Giant Monster Rampage, which is design a game meant to simulate many different kaiju and mecha series with combatants that vary greatly in abilities and power levels.

Where are you with it?

Can we get a "State of the Giant Monster Rampage" address?

Sure!

The rules are pretty much done. I am just "cleaning" them up. Specifically, I am going through them and editing everything so that there is consistent language. I am also making sure that all of the major kaiju and mecha effects are represented (by creating as many different kaiju and mecha as I can) as well as consolidating or tweaking existing effects in the hopes that the system will seem more intuitive. Once that is done, I am going to find a couple of rules editors to make sure everything reads the way I intended it to, and to make sure the rules address any special situations that may arise when effects are combined. Then one final round of playtesting before art and layout.

This is a process that I plan on finishing by the end of the year at the latest (mostly due to the costs involved with the art and layout). So, hopefully, if all goes as planned, Giant Monster Rampage 4th edition will be available at the end of 2018 or early 2019, but I am planning on starting demos in the summer if time permits.

 Visceral_Mass wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Can we get a "State of the Giant Monster Rampage" address?

The rules are pretty much done. I am just "cleaning" them up. Specifically, I am going through them and editing everything so that there is consistent language. I am also making sure that all of the major kaiju and mecha effects are represented (by creating as many different kaiju and mecha as I can) as well as consolidating or tweaking existing effects in the hopes that the system will seem more intuitive. Once that is done, I am going to find a couple of rules editors to make sure everything reads the way I intended it to, and to make sure the rules address any special situations that may arise when effects are combined. Then one final round of playtesting before art and layout.

This is a process that I plan on finishing by the end of the year at the latest (mostly due to the costs involved with the art and layout). So, hopefully, if all goes as planned, Giant Monster Rampage 4th edition will be available at the end of 2018 or early 2019, but I am planning on starting demos in the summer if time permits.

Consider to post it under Game Design if it's still WIP.

I'm thinking moreso that, taking the Godzilla series as our example, that people have an idea of how it's supposed to 'feel' and so even if the game works it's going to irk a lot of players if it doesn't play the way it's 'supposed' to work. I noticed that in previous versions of 40k, and presumably it's still a thing in the current edition, that players would complain about how their Space Marines weren't the invincible protagonists they were portrayed as in novels, etc.

The more generic you go, though, the less people feel like it's weird when a monster/robot not-from Property A can't do what a monster/robot not-from Property B can do.

When I started on Titanomachia ~6 years ago I made a list of all the GW Titan background, and then made another list of everything that the Titans did so that players could do them in the game. Since then the game's moved on a bit from its genesis as homebrew Adeptus Titanicus, but I like to think it hits the genre notes that I like.

 Nurglitch wrote:
I'm thinking moreso that, taking the Godzilla series as our example, that people have an idea of how it's supposed to 'feel' and so even if the game works it's going to irk a lot of players if it doesn't play the way it's 'supposed' to work. I noticed that in previous versions of 40k, and presumably it's still a thing in the current edition, that players would complain about how their Space Marines weren't the invincible protagonists they were portrayed as in novels, etc.

The more generic you go, though, the less people feel like it's weird when a monster/robot not-from Property A can't do what a monster/robot not-from Property B can do.

When I started on Titanomachia ~6 years ago I made a list of all the GW Titan background, and then made another list of everything that the Titans did so that players could do them in the game. Since then the game's moved on a bit from its genesis as homebrew Adeptus Titanicus, but I like to think it hits the genre notes that I like.

If you gave Voltron the ability to cleave Robeasts in two, you likely wouldn't have a very fun or balanced game, at least in the eyes of the Robeast player. A lot of the things that happen in the books, comics, movies, shows, etc... happens because it progresses the story. We are talking games here so power levels and abilities need to be designed in a way that creates a balanced system while trying to stay as true to the source material as possible (for licensed games). That is why you will never see a Superman figure in Heroclix that is as invulnerable as he is in the comics.

What people like and want from a game varies from player to player, and you will never be able to please all of them. Sure, some players will not like the way character x is represented, but the same can be true for any game system regardless of whether or not it is based on a licensed property. Even generic games will have the same types of criticisms leveled against them. Some players may not like your rules for lasers, or they think the laser rules for a similar system is better.

It's the same issue with 40k, where plot armor is a big deal.

 Visceral_Mass wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
I'm thinking moreso that, taking the Godzilla series as our example, that people have an idea of how it's supposed to 'feel' and so even if the game works it's going to irk a lot of players if it doesn't play the way it's 'supposed' to work. I noticed that in previous versions of 40k, and presumably it's still a thing in the current edition, that players would complain about how their Space Marines weren't the invincible protagonists they were portrayed as in novels, etc.

The more generic you go, though, the less people feel like it's weird when a monster/robot not-from Property A can't do what a monster/robot not-from Property B can do.

When I started on Titanomachia ~6 years ago I made a list of all the GW Titan background, and then made another list of everything that the Titans did so that players could do them in the game. Since then the game's moved on a bit from its genesis as homebrew Adeptus Titanicus, but I like to think it hits the genre notes that I like.

If you gave Voltron the ability to cleave Robeasts in two, you likely wouldn't have a very fun or balanced game, at least in the eyes of the Robeast player. A lot of the things that happen in the books, comics, movies, shows, etc... happens because it progresses the story. We are talking games here so power levels and abilities need to be designed in a way that creates a balanced system while trying to stay as true to the source material as possible (for licensed games). That is why you will never see a Superman figure in Heroclix that is as invulnerable as he is in the comics.

What people like and want from a game varies from player to player, and you will never be able to please all of them. Sure, some players will not like the way character x is represented, but the same can be true for any game system regardless of whether or not it is based on a licensed property. Even generic games will have the same types of criticisms leveled against them. Some players may not like your rules for lasers, or they think the laser rules for a similar system is better.

Cool. I'm thinking moreso things like ludonarrative consonance, like various aspects of the game need to map to the source material or it's just not about that source material.

Take the Voltron example. Voltron should be able to cleave Robeasts apart. The question, game-wise, is when. What sort of resources and decisions should the players need to make to get to that point? Something I really like about the new Netflix series is that it's less formulaic than the original series, and it plays with that. So it's not enough to just form a Blazing sword, but to do so at the right time and against the right target, and at the right cost.

I've been playing a lot of Into the Breach lately, so bear with me, but consider a Voltron game like Into the Breach where you have five lions on a grid and if they all move onto the same square then they can become Voltron as their action. But while they're doing that, the Robeast is free to act because they're not addressing it, so it becomes a goal of the Voltron player to push the Robeast into a square where the damage they can do is minimized while Voltron assembles. Likewise, maybe the Blazing Sword damages everything in the square in front of Voltron and the square behind that, so the player needs to figure out how to set up the Robeast so they can do that. In the mean-time the Robeast player needs to score a certain number of buildings destroyed or turns last.

I'm pretty sure Giga-Robo does this for the anime robot sub-genre. I think it's definitely easier the less specific you get. The Giga-Robo miniatures, for example, just need to get the style right rather than be model-perfect miniature reproductions of whatever anime property. Plus, rather than just appealing to, say, Gundam fans, it hits a more general note.

 Nurglitch wrote:

 Visceral_Mass wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
I'm thinking moreso that, taking the Godzilla series as our example, that people have an idea of how it's supposed to 'feel' and so even if the game works it's going to irk a lot of players if it doesn't play the way it's 'supposed' to work. I noticed that in previous versions of 40k, and presumably it's still a thing in the current edition, that players would complain about how their Space Marines weren't the invincible protagonists they were portrayed as in novels, etc.

The more generic you go, though, the less people feel like it's weird when a monster/robot not-from Property A can't do what a monster/robot not-from Property B can do.

When I started on Titanomachia ~6 years ago I made a list of all the GW Titan background, and then made another list of everything that the Titans did so that players could do them in the game. Since then the game's moved on a bit from its genesis as homebrew Adeptus Titanicus, but I like to think it hits the genre notes that I like.

If you gave Voltron the ability to cleave Robeasts in two, you likely wouldn't have a very fun or balanced game, at least in the eyes of the Robeast player. A lot of the things that happen in the books, comics, movies, shows, etc... happens because it progresses the story. We are talking games here so power levels and abilities need to be designed in a way that creates a balanced system while trying to stay as true to the source material as possible (for licensed games). That is why you will never see a Superman figure in Heroclix that is as invulnerable as he is in the comics.

What people like and want from a game varies from player to player, and you will never be able to please all of them. Sure, some players will not like the way character x is represented, but the same can be true for any game system regardless of whether or not it is based on a licensed property. Even generic games will have the same types of criticisms leveled against them. Some players may not like your rules for lasers, or they think the laser rules for a similar system is better.

Cool. I'm thinking moreso things like ludonarrative consonance, like various aspects of the game need to map to the source material or it's just not about that source material.

Take the Voltron example. Voltron should be able to cleave Robeasts apart. The question, game-wise, is when. What sort of resources and decisions should the players need to make to get to that point? Something I really like about the new Netflix series is that it's less formulaic than the original series, and it plays with that. So it's not enough to just form a Blazing sword, but to do so at the right time and against the right target, and at the right cost.

I've been playing a lot of Into the Breach lately, so bear with me, but consider a Voltron game like Into the Breach where you have five lions on a grid and if they all move onto the same square then they can become Voltron as their action. But while they're doing that, the Robeast is free to act because they're not addressing it, so it becomes a goal of the Voltron player to push the Robeast into a square where the damage they can do is minimized while Voltron assembles. Likewise, maybe the Blazing Sword damages everything in the square in front of Voltron and the square behind that, so the player needs to figure out how to set up the Robeast so they can do that. In the mean-time the Robeast player needs to score a certain number of buildings destroyed or turns last.

I'm pretty sure Giga-Robo does this for the anime robot sub-genre. I think it's definitely easier the less specific you get. The Giga-Robo miniatures, for example, just need to get the style right rather than be model-perfect miniature reproductions of whatever anime property. Plus, rather than just appealing to, say, Gundam fans, it hits a more general note.

I agree that certain aspects of a game need to map the source material, that is what you want your players to connect with. My point was that you only need to do that to a certain degree, because there are too many story elements that can't be accurately portrayed without "breaking" the game in some way and most players understand this, which is why ludonarrative dissonance and power equilibrium doesn't keep people from enjoying the multitude of games that have those "problems". Even your Voltron examples present a certain degree of narrative dissonance and power equilibrium from what happens in the various anime episodes.

My other point, that I think got lost was that a generic game isn't inherently better and/or easier to design than a licensed game. I think the depth of the system and what you are trying to accomplish with that system determines that more than the source material.

Let's step away from the giant monster/robot genre for a second and look at X-Wing. It's basically Car Wars with a Star Wars skin. Part of the issue is that in order to keep it interesting, and keeping a core group of consumers interested, it needs to keep expanding its content. So there's all sorts of weird expanded-universe style ships and stuff coming out that doesn't really make sense (to me at least, I'm not a huge SW fan). By contrast Warhammer 40,000 isn't licensed so the creators can pretty much do what they want with it, including re-writing it when they realized a pastiche of generic tropes doesn't cut it when trying to sell plastic.

So there's something in between licensing a property that wasn't originally developed as a game, and developing a generic set of rules. I think developing a property as a game is a great way to go, and that it's easier than paying licensing fees, and retrofitting a game around a property.

I think it's worth mentioning Richard Garfield's Roborally.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18/roborally

It's a board game, but the original game came with pewter miniatures that you were supposed to paint, and you can equip your robot with all sorts of weapons, so that kind of makes it a miniature game. What's really unique about the game, is that you program a sequence of movements for your robot using randomly drawn cards, and until the next turn there's not a whole lot you can do. You might get pushed accidentally by an opponent, or end up being shot, or crushed.

So not only do the playing pieces portray robots, but they behave like them as well.

There are now better programming games out there (i.e. Robot Turtles)

 Nurglitch wrote:
Let's step away from the giant monster/robot genre for a second and look at X-Wing. It's basically Car Wars with a Star Wars skin. Part of the issue is that in order to keep it interesting, and keeping a core group of consumers interested, it needs to keep expanding its content. So there's all sorts of weird expanded-universe style ships and stuff coming out that doesn't really make sense (to me at least, I'm not a huge SW fan). By contrast Warhammer 40,000 isn't licensed so the creators can pretty much do what they want with it, including re-writing it when they realized a pastiche of generic tropes doesn't cut it when trying to sell plastic.

So there's something in between licensing a property that wasn't originally developed as a game, and developing a generic set of rules. I think developing a property as a game is a great way to go, and that it's easier than paying licensing fees, and retrofitting a game around a property.

I would agree with you that the impetus that creates X-wings problems is the need to keep expanding.
However, it's not the ships and expanded universe items that are the problem, as most players seem to really enjoy them. The problem is the huge glut of extra rules cross-polinating special abilities, etc. Whether because a company is trying to get the most out of a license or simply the weight or a legacy system weighed down by expansin (previous edition of 40k), it's nearly impossible to course correct such a trend without a reboot.

I do agree that there is a middle ground to be had but I'm not sure what it is.

Battletech represents one possibility where a game has enough granularity that new rules are mostly weapons and equipment that fit into the existing rules structure without funamentally changing the game. On the other hand, battletech is also a 30 year old game with aguably clunky mechanics that aren't up-to-snuffin the current market.

Kings of War is a possinbility. It deliberately constrains the rules to make a streamlined game, while still periodically releasing new armies, campaigns, etc. It tries as best it can to focus on generalship rather than list-building.

For myself I still gravitate toward Mech Attack for it's simplicity and flexibility. It's not a game that is going to support tournament play, a gaming community, etc, but that's really not the point of such games. Mech Attack, and almost all games by Ganesha and Osprey are experiences designed around a group of gamers having small campaigns or one-off play, which -despite our aspirations to the contrary- is all most of us have time for anyway.

 Nurglitch wrote:
Let's step away from the giant monster/robot genre for a second and look at X-Wing. It's basically Car Wars with a Star Wars skin.

As I understand it:
* X-wing is really Wings of WW1 / WW2 with a Star Wars skin, and
* the next Car Wars will be X-wing with a Car Wars skin

What's nice is that Star Wars as a a property is a thing with ridiculous amounts of toy figure / ship / whatnot, so it's easy to dole this out over years and years. Plus, it's a live thing so it never gets stale. Literally printing money because there's always something new and the dollar amounts are deliberately kept managable, while the quality is Collector-grade. I suspect X-wing might be the only game with a lower play : purchase ratio than GW. As brands go, hitching your wagon to the Disney-managed Star Wars is not a bad idea.

Doing a Marvel or Harry Potter game has similar potential.

Also:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
* X-wing is really Wings of WW1 / WW2 with a Star Wars skin, and
* the next Car Wars will be X-wing with a Car Wars skin

By that metric, Wings of War is a Blue Max with a "no hexes" skin.

Going back to giant robots (and monsters), apparently Monsterpocalypse is back as a hobby game. You could, in theory, play that strictly as robot vs robot.

If you hadn't mentioned the new Mpoc, I'd never have known. I wonder how the rules go.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If you hadn't mentioned the new Mpoc, I'd never have known. I wonder how the rules go.

I've seen it mentioned that the old prepainted figures cannot be used with the new rules (in official games).

I'm curious to see how the game does with hobby miniatures that require assembly and paint. Most of the kaiju gamers I've encountered over the years aren't hobby gamers. I also know that a huge draw for many Monsterpocalypse players was the prepainted miniatures.

Yeah. If these had been preassembled PVC that probably would have been "better" from a gaming standpoint. I think PP is going to have trouble if they can't convert it into the next Warmahordes game they want it to be.

I still think as Mecha games go, Mech Attack has the best blend of rules fun vs. complexity, and the best looking line of (widely accessible) mecha is the Reaper CAV line. I much prefer the old metals, but the bones line is great when you need to buy two forces for most of your home games (like me) so need to cut costs.

Even the new plastics from Battletech, while affordable in the new lance packs (at places like the Warstore it ends up being 7 bucks for four mechs), are a bit "old fashioned' if my meaning is understood. They definitely look like small 80's metal models. CAV also benefits from a pretty good selection of vehicles and infantry that are nicely scaled against the mechs, as the entire line is equivalent to "N" scale in model railroading.

The old Mechwarrior clix figures are big and somewhat cheap, even now, but I find some mecha and definitely the vehicles are so over-armed it's not even funny, like they were covered in glue and rolled in a weapons pile. For a game like Mech Attack, its hard to even glance at a vehicle and determine which of the 3-5 weapons systems its actually 'armed' with as it's main weapon.

My other thought was CAV mechs with vehicles/flyers from Dropzone Commander.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
Let's step away from the giant monster/robot genre for a second and look at X-Wing. It's basically Car Wars with a Star Wars skin.

As I understand it:
* X-wing is really Wings of WW1 / WW2 with a Star Wars skin, and
* the next Car Wars will be X-wing with a Car Wars skin

What's nice is that Star Wars as a a property is a thing with ridiculous amounts of toy figure / ship / whatnot, so it's easy to dole this out over years and years. Plus, it's a live thing so it never gets stale. Literally printing money because there's always something new and the dollar amounts are deliberately kept managable, while the quality is Collector-grade. I suspect X-wing might be the only game with a lower play : purchase ratio than GW. As brands go, hitching your wagon to the Disney-managed Star Wars is not a bad idea.

Doing a Marvel or Harry Potter game has similar potential.

Albertorius wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
* X-wing is really Wings of WW1 / WW2 with a Star Wars skin, and
* the next Car Wars will be X-wing with a Car Wars skin

By that metric, Wings of War is a Blue Max with a "no hexes" skin.

I can't comment on Blue Max, but I think it's pretty well established that to make X-Wing, FFG took the "Wings" mechanics/rules/templates/etc that they already owned the rights too and tweaked things a bit for the Star Wars universe.

As for Car Wars, does it use templates?

I played in a game of GasLands last week. It uses Templates and Hot Wheels, but does so in a rather fast-play manner and with a pretty usefull "gear" mechanism that regulates speed, number of movement options, risk and number of actions per round. I rather enjoyed it. One of our members did a writeup with his impessions and pics.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2018/03/05/a-hazardous-wind-gaslands-impressions/

 Eilif wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
As I understand it:
* X-wing is really Wings of WW1 / WW2 with a Star Wars skin, and
* the next Car Wars will be X-wing with a Car Wars skin

As for Car Wars, does it use templates?

It's been a while, but that's the last thing I read, but we won't know for sure until SJG finalizes things, likely in the KS to be launched some time later this year.

 Eilif wrote:
I can't comment on Blue Max, but I think it's pretty well established that to make X-Wing, FFG took the "Wings" mechanics/rules/templates/etc that they already owned the rights too and tweaked things a bit for the Star Wars universe.

Blue Max is the predecessor of Wings of War, but with hexmaps, basically, and a couple of more involved rules (fuel rules were more complex).

You might say that the core of X-Wing is a stripped down Blue Max/WoW though. No elevations, no fuels, no ammo (except for ordnance), less involved damage...

Cool news about Monsterpocalypse!

I'm kinda challenged as seeing anything hexed as the predecessor of the Wings engine.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm kinda challenged as seeing anything hexed as the predecessor of the Wings engine.

Because... why? Because hexes don't work or something? They are actually much better than a clear mat to avoid discussions, "accidentally" moving more and things like that, so...

And well, Blue Max planes didn't have a maneuver dial, but they certainly had the next best thing: a maneuver chart.

http://youplay.it/play/bm_planesChart.asp?PlaneCode=SPSN

Because Wings is about the flightpath system, which doesn't use hexes at all.

Gaslands all ready is the car wars equivalent of X-wing.....

1. Manuever templates
2. Custom dice

.... all it needs is pre-made vehicles and custom driver cards. After reading the rules i wondered how Osprey got this and FFG did not.

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/12/review-gaslands-osprey-games.html

Now, the question for this thread is if such a system would work for Giant Robot/Giant Monster battles too?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Because Wings is about the flightpath system, which doesn't use hexes at all.

Blue Max by GDW, circa 1989 (Phil Hall) used hexes, but has the same "mechanic" as a flight path system where you select your maneuver, and then move your plane to that hex and orientation. Same thing as using the Xwing maneuver sticks, or the Wings of War cards, just on hexes. Heck, Blue Max in 1989 included a separate rulebook for using miniatures (sans hexes) for the game. And FFG had the license and remade Blue Max into a really fancy hex based game, but gutted it by only including 3 planes per side, with no campaign, rather than the dozens in the original. Nice production values, terrible execution.

If you played Blue Max, you can play Xwing, Wings of War, Check your 6!, whatever. The basic mechanics are similar, its the chrome that differentiates it: ammo, fuel, elevations, how damage is handled, etc. And each of the previous areas are optional add ons in Blue Max, so you can make it as detailed as you like. Gameplay doesn't suffer either way.

I've played and loved Battletech since it first came out, and still play it when I can. The looong games are a bother, where it takes half the afternoon to score those hits, or hit the right spot to down another mech. I prefer to play to missions, or turn length, or set some other agreed upon end for the game and how to decide the winner. We also play campaigns, which puts the brakes on "kill em all, last mech standing wins" games, because you'd never be able to replace or repair the stuff you lost. Of course, then its getting into a different kind of game. I've tried some of the other mecha games, all the way down to Mobile Frame Zero (lego mech battles), and none of them scratch the battletech itch. And until they sort the miniatures, I'll continue to happily use my cardboard stand-ups where my Wasp looks like a Wasp, and my Unseen can be seen, even if they are 2-D

Flightpath is momentum / limited turn.

Mechs and Monsters can stop and pivot on the spot.

Flightpath would work fine for a Flash vs Reverse Flash vs Johnny Quick game.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Flightpath is momentum / limited turn.

Mechs and Monsters can stop and pivot on the spot.

Flightpath would work fine for a Flash vs Reverse Flash vs Johnny Quick game.

Good point. How does Tanks! handle that aspect? That is also a flight Path style system IIRC but for tanks which can not only stop and pivot, but also rotate a turret.

 Easy E wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Flightpath is momentum / limited turn.

Mechs and Monsters can stop and pivot on the spot.

Good point. How does Tanks! handle that aspect? That is also a flight Path style system IIRC but for tanks which can not only stop and pivot, but also rotate a turret.

http://tanks.gf9games.com/HowToPlay/tabid/117/entryid/74/movement-basics.aspx

It's not really flightpath - it's just using the Wings Initiiative.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Because Wings is about the flightpath system, which doesn't use hexes at all.

It introduces human error, yes. Other than that... it's the exact same mechanic.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Flightpath is momentum / limited turn.

Mechs and Monsters can stop and pivot on the spot.

Good point. How does Tanks! handle that aspect? That is also a flight Path style system IIRC but for tanks which can not only stop and pivot, but also rotate a turret.

http://tanks.gf9games.com/HowToPlay/tabid/117/entryid/74/movement-basics.aspx

It's not really flightpath - it's just using the Wings Initiiative.

Thanks for the link. That was really helpful. I could easily see such a system with giant Robots/Kaiju!

I will have to move future developments into the Game Design section.

Man, I am really pondering getting back into Mech Attack lately for some mecha gaming, I bought the rules way back when they came out and assembled some of the paper minis, but then life got in the way, and I never really liked the 2.5d mechs, even though the swappable weapon aspect was really neat.

Now that I went back and took another look, by adding in the house rules for flyers, VTOLs, etc, Mech Attack really would make for a much more accessible way to play "Battletech Lite". It's a shame to ignore such a detailed and evocative gaming universe just because the rules are so intimidating.

I'm thinking of getting several of the new Lance packs for Battletech Alpha Strike as each one has 4 mechs for about 8 bucks online, and then buying some minis from Microworld Games for VTOLs and Tanks as they have some really neat ones for probably the best price on the net for vehicles in 6mm stuff. I have lots of papercraft 6mm buildings, so that's easy.

Swappable weapons was one of the big things for my Titanomachina game, nearing production, but it's strictly robots for now.