Meh. I prefer the old Tyranid start collecting box. The Eldar is an improvement but this one I think, even if Gargoyles where a pretty random unit, the Swarmlord/Hyve Tyrant and the Tyranid Warriors where better.
The old box was 107€, the new one is 104€, but thats only because the Broodlord is 33€ and is EXTREMELY overpriced, even more than the Primaris HQ's.
I suppose I'll buy a Tyranid start collecting before they dissapear.
I think I died and gone to heaven. Or at least purgatory with a nice buffet table.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also this combined with the other thread's leak of an Eldar Start collecting box makes me think the codexes will be a double-release like the GK and CSM.
Kriswall wrote: Can someone describe the pictures for those of us who are work blocked? They're not loading and I can't pull up FB.
The first picture says
Codex Tyranids
Pre-order 04 Nov
Available 11 Nov
Along with a bunch of prices for various countries.
The second picture is of the new tyranid starter box
Containing a Trygon, a Broodlord, and a unit of 8 Genestealers.
This is a much better starter box than the previous one.
In 8th edition, Hive Tyrants, Warriors and Gargoyles are all fairly 'meh'. Not awful units, but not exactly competitive choices either.
Meanwhile Genestealers and Broodlords are some of the best units in the army. Trygons are pretty great too.
Woo! I was hoping that this would be soon. Just finishing up eighty Gaunts from the Tyranid Swarm bundle. So. Many. NIDS! That was a fantastically priced box set. I hope that GW does something similar in the future.
Arson Fire wrote: This is a much better starter box than the previous one.
In 8th edition, Hive Tyrants, Warriors and Gargoyles are all fairly 'meh'. Not awful units, but not exactly competitive choices either.
Meanwhile Genestealers and Broodlords are some of the best units in the army. Trygons are pretty great too.
Start Collecting boxes shouldn't be based in what is good and what is bad in that particular edition, or you end with things like the Eldar one.
They should offer the new player a balanced force to have a feel of the aesthetics and gameplay of the army.
I'm not saying this Genestealer one fail at that, but... when you have Genestealer Cult as a faction, they should at least try to make the Tyranids something more than just "More Genestealers": The Hyve Tyrant, and the Tyranid Warriors were fairly iconic Tyranid units. Gargoyles should have been changed for gaunts.
Arson Fire wrote: This is a much better starter box than the previous one.
In 8th edition, Hive Tyrants, Warriors and Gargoyles are all fairly 'meh'. Not awful units, but not exactly competitive choices either.
Meanwhile Genestealers and Broodlords are some of the best units in the army. Trygons are pretty great too.
Start Collecting boxes shouldn't be based in what is good and what is bad in that particular edition, or you end with things like the Eldar one.
They should offer the new player a balanced force to have a feel of the aesthetics and gameplay of the army.
I'm not saying this Genestealer one fail at that, but... when you have Genestealer Cult as a faction, they should at least try to make the Tyranids something more than just "More Genestealers": The Hyve Tyrant, and the Tyranid Warriors were fairly iconic Tyranid units. Gargoyles should have been changed for gaunts.
I do agree with you in that this is not the iconic tyranid force; it really should be a box of warriors, a box of termagants and a Carnifex.
But any semblance of rationality went out the window when I saw the TRYGON AND BROODLORD.
I do agree with you in that this is not the iconic tyranid force; it really should be a box of warriors, a box of termagants and a Carnifex.
But any semblance of rationality went out the window when I saw the TRYGON AND BROODLORD.
I think the only issue with Warriors + Termas + a Carnifex (which, btw, I 100% agree makes the most sense) is that it doesn't include an HQ selection. Granted, theoretically you can make a Prime out of the Warriors.
But yeah....this set is screaming "Genestealer delivery service!" set (which I will probably purchase )
I kind of wish it wasn't a BroodLord - I can see why it just feels like a bit of a pain to have getting started where there's two units you want more than one of and then one that you really only need one/two of at most. Still depending on price it could be neat and one can always trade on the brood lords as required.
I wonder if that's the end of "new" stuff or if there's anything else that nids might get!
So that's basically a free Broodlord (which is good because, like most say, its very overcosted for a single character with no additional arms/poses) and a little bit more.
Not very many minis but better than the five of the last one.
What? Does the number of minis really matter? These are, with the exception of the Farseer, all larger models, and the savings are in line with most SC kits. I don't see anything to complain about (other than the War Walker being ugly as always).
Not very many minis but better than the five of the last one.
What? Does the number of minis really matter? These are, with the exception of the Farseer, all larger models, and the savings are in line with most SC kits. I don't see anything to complain about (other than the War Walker being ugly as always).
The old one always looked kind of funny next to say, Deathwatch. Four bikes and a tank compared to eleven guys and a walker.
I wanted the WL just for looks for a while, the WG for the stats on the table, and will take the extra stuff for basically free. Dob’r like the look of the walker, but their stats are pretty solid. And it would be nice to have a HQ on foot made not 20 years ago.
I liked the last Eldar SC box as well. Although I think of it as my “stop collecting” box, as it gave me the units I wanted and needed to get my collection up to a comfortable play level. Everything after that is not something I need, but something I want. Which brings up to the new box (which has a bit of both for me on 8th)
Not very many minis but better than the five of the last one.
What? Does the number of minis really matter? These are, with the exception of the Farseer, all larger models, and the savings are in line with most SC kits. I don't see anything to complain about (other than the War Walker being ugly as always).
The old one always looked kind of funny next to say, Deathwatch. Four bikes and a tank compared to eleven guys and a walker.
Well, I'm of the opposite opinion. The SC Deathwatch has 11 footsloggers and a footslogger vehicle, none of them very big. The grav tank alone looks more impressive than that.
In the end, though, it's mostly about value, and this new SC Craftworlds has lots of that. Will buy.
pizzaguardian wrote: Wait, so GW said we will get "about 10 codexes" by the end of the year.
Seems like there will be only 8 by the end of November, and i doubt there will be any dexes in December.
What'sup Geedubs?
"About 10" is pretty vague. Would it mean 9, 10 or 11 to you? GW might take it to mean 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12. 8 is closer to 10 than it is to 5, at least.
Also, why would they not release any codices in December?
pizzaguardian wrote: Wait, so GW said we will get "about 10 codexes" by the end of the year.
Seems like there will be only 8 by the end of November, and i doubt there will be any dexes in December.
What'sup Geedubs?
Sure GW don't usually release codexes in December, but they also didn't used to release 2 per month either. Everything we used to know went out the window with 8E.
My money says TSons and Orks/Necrons before Xmas. With CWE & Nids arriving so soon there's nothing to stop GW from dropping at least one of those toward the end of November.
I do agree with you in that this is not the iconic tyranid force; it really should be a box of warriors, a box of termagants and a Carnifex.
But any semblance of rationality went out the window when I saw the TRYGON AND BROODLORD.
I think the only issue with Warriors + Termas + a Carnifex (which, btw, I 100% agree makes the most sense) is that it doesn't include an HQ selection. Granted, theoretically you can make a Prime out of the Warriors.
But yeah....this set is screaming "Genestealer delivery service!" set (which I will probably purchase )
Warriors can make a Prime, which is a HQ choice. A sucky one (given that the Broodlord does what it wants to do but better) but still an HQ choice.
Nids have no brokenly powerful units. If the hivefleet rules, artifacts, and stratgems match the guard dex for allowing flexibilty in the way we build lists the nid dex might just be the benchmark for balance internally and externally this edition.
If nids become broken this edition I will not be humble about it like Guard players are. I will wallow in my opponent's salty tears like scrooge mcduck.
I'm really curious to see what sort of stratagems they get. Also will be awesome if there include all the <Hive> fleets with traits, warlord and stratagems. Nids deserve it after the last few editions
Lance845 wrote:Nids have no brokenly powerful units. If the hivefleet rules, artifacts, and stratgems match the guard dex for allowing flexibilty in the way we build lists the nid dex might just be the benchmark for balance internally and externally this edition.
I really want to see this, it would be refreshing and nice to have a really well balanced codex internally and externally. One issue they need to fix is the Tyrannofex-Exocrine thing right of the bat, as there's no point in taking a TFex compared to an exocrine. They just fill the same role right now.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:If nids become broken this edition I will not be humble about it like Guard players are. I will wallow in my opponent's salty tears like scrooge mcduck.
And you can quote me on that. (do eet)
BUT I ALSO WANT THIS. I want to be feared, but not so much as unplayed, but a true force to be reckoned with on the table when dice start rolling and the tools come out.
I'm also very keen on the new Start collecting, despite Genestealers coming with a lot of kits, I only have about 12, and could use another squad or two... plus I need some Trygons. Maybe a Mawloc. I'll just convert the Broodlord into something else. Hunched pose gives off a nice gunbeast vibe.. maybe Biovore?
The changes to the Eldar and Tyranid boxes make sense. GW wants cross pollination between 40k and Armageddon, which means an infantry HQ and some boots on the ground. Then a big thing to entice you into bigger games.
The old boxes had very little useable stuff for Armageddon, and in the Tyranids’ case, nothing says hive battles like genestealers.
I really dislike the Nids SC I have tond of stealers from board games already and three Broodlords. No swarmie but a 2nd Ed. one and only three modern Warriors, no Gargoyles. But I wanted to buy the current SC in a few months, not now while swamped with DG and IG. Sigh.
Binabik15 wrote: I really dislike the Nids SCI have tons of stealers from board games already and three Broodlords. No swarmie but a 2nd Ed. one and only three modern Warriors, no Gargoyles. But I wanted to buy the current SC in a few months, not now while swamped with DG and IG. Sigh.
Well you're not exactly meeting the target audience of "Start Collecting" then are you?!?
Badablack wrote: The changes to the Eldar and Tyranid boxes make sense. GW wants cross pollination between 40k and Armageddon, which means an infantry HQ and some boots on the ground. Then a big thing to entice you into bigger games.
The old boxes had very little useable stuff for Armageddon, and in the Tyranids’ case, nothing says hive battles like genestealers.
Binabik15 wrote: I really dislike the Nids SCI have tons of stealers from board games already and three Broodlords. No swarmie but a 2nd Ed. one and only three modern Warriors, no Gargoyles. But I wanted to buy the current SC in a few months, not now while swamped with DG and IG. Sigh.
Well you're not exactly meeting the target audience of "Start Collecting" then are you?!?
I'm not in the sense that I'm a new player, no But my "modern" Nids consist of three warriors and the old box that had half termas and hormagaunts (and way too many board game stealers), so I'm more of a beginner than the people buying four sets of Eldar SC with bikes for their 5k points 7th Ed armies
Tyranids are decent index-wise, so with a little polishing and Hive Fleet rules I can see this not being a disaster like Guard was. Can't wait for the previews.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Tyranids are decent index-wise, so with a little polishing and Hive Fleet rules I can see this not being a disaster like Guard was. Can't wait for the previews.
Is it? With a few Hive Fleet rules like armywide +1 strength and/or re-rolling all 1s in the army and randomly doubling the shots for things like Dakka-Fexes and Exocrines, they might get close (though still not quite Guard, I suppose).
Armageddon was literally a stopgap product between the end of 7th and the start of 8th, to
- judge potential popularity to relaunch necromunda
- give people something to buy in the meantime which required no new models
It's not a supported game which is changing their decision-making on 40k start collecting boxes.
Personally, I'll just be happy if this codex isn't a complete steaming pile of gak (meaning don't let CRUDdace anywhere near it). I started playing in 5th edition and have never had a codex that was really any good.
Binabik15 wrote: I really dislike the Nids SCI have tons of stealers from board games already and three Broodlords. No swarmie but a 2nd Ed. one and only three modern Warriors, no Gargoyles. But I wanted to buy the current SC in a few months, not now while swamped with DG and IG. Sigh.
Well you're not exactly meeting the target audience of "Start Collecting" then are you?!?
I'm always ppuzzled by box sets with start collecting as a title and contents that aren't particularly useful. Discouraging people from buying products shouldn't be a goal.
Binabik15 wrote: I really dislike the Nids SCI have tons of stealers from board games already and three Broodlords. No swarmie but a 2nd Ed. one and only three modern Warriors, no Gargoyles. But I wanted to buy the current SC in a few months, not now while swamped with DG and IG. Sigh.
Well you're not exactly meeting the target audience of "Start Collecting" then are you?!?
I'm always ppuzzled by box sets with start collecting as a title and contents that aren't particularly useful. Discouraging people from buying products shouldn't be a goal.
Genestealers aren't exactly useless now are they? Maybe not most useful for existing players with tons but these are aimed for bringing in more new players for tyranids and new players will want genestealers. So while gaunts over stealers might be more useful for old guys it would be less usefull for new players.
Binabik15 wrote: I really dislike the Nids SCI have tons of stealers from board games already and three Broodlords. No swarmie but a 2nd Ed. one and only three modern Warriors, no Gargoyles. But I wanted to buy the current SC in a few months, not now while swamped with DG and IG. Sigh.
Well you're not exactly meeting the target audience of "Start Collecting" then are you?!?
I'm always ppuzzled by box sets with start collecting as a title and contents that aren't particularly useful. Discouraging people from buying products shouldn't be a goal.
The new start collecting s great for someone who doesn't have any nids. A troop, a HQ that specifically buffs them, and a Power house deepstriker that can potentially deliver the troops.
If I wanted to start nids it's a fantastic way to get going.
Overread wrote: HALT!
Step away from the photoshop filters before someone gets hurt!!
There's an OG screamer killer in that picture, of COURSE things will be hurt. S10 all day, every day.
I hope my airbrush compressor can be repaired (from the repair) and I can find a way to paint a disgustingly bright green like the Monster Energy logo. If someone knows a recipe please send me a link.
Then I could batch paint my few Nids in time for the Codex and maybe gift them to my brother for christmas.
Overread wrote: HALT!
Step away from the photoshop filters before someone gets hurt!!
There's an OG screamer killer in that picture, of COURSE things will be hurt. S10 all day, every day.
I hope my airbrush compressor can be repaired (from the repair) and I can find a way to paint a disgustingly bright green like the Monster Energy logo. If someone knows a recipe please send me a link.
Then I could batch paint my few Nids in time for the Codex and maybe gift them to my brother for christmas.
Binabik15 wrote: I really dislike the Nids SCI have tons of stealers from board games already and three Broodlords. No swarmie but a 2nd Ed. one and only three modern Warriors, no Gargoyles. But I wanted to buy the current SC in a few months, not now while swamped with DG and IG. Sigh.
Well you're not exactly meeting the target audience of "Start Collecting" then are you?!?
I'm always ppuzzled by box sets with start collecting as a title and contents that aren't particularly useful. Discouraging people from buying products shouldn't be a goal.
The new start collecting s great for someone who doesn't have any nids. A troop, a HQ that specifically buffs them, and a Power house deepstriker that can potentially deliver the troops.
If I wanted to start nids it's a fantastic way to get going.
Not to mention the Trygon is a great centerpiece model and is really eye-catching to get new players to buy it.......and it doesn't currently suck.
Binabik15 wrote: There's an OG screamer killer in that picture, of COURSE things will be hurt. S10 all day, every day.
I hope my airbrush compressor can be repaired (from the repair) and I can find a way to paint a disgustingly bright green like the Monster Energy logo. If someone knows a recipe please send me a link.
Then I could batch paint my few Nids in time for the Codex and maybe gift them to my brother for christmas.
The new starter set has a nice and small amount of models to begin with - not to mention that 'Stealers are easy to paint. Nothing too overwhelming for newcomers, rather than "hey Timmy, you want to collect Tyranids? Then here's a bazillion models to paint that are worth as much points as a Space Marine squad!" (Me irl)
It wasn't that long ago that a Trygon was a high priced Forgeworld mini that most gamers wouldn't ever own! Heck I hardly ever see them appear up on ebay and the like
Oh that was a gorgeous model. The plastic one is a good approximation, but nowhere near as good as it. (not being sarcastic here, it genuinely had a lot more detail, like the muscle fibers between carapace plates and the shell on what would be the pelvic area).
Oh there's no denying that resin is superior as a material for holding detail over plastic. As good as GW plastic is now resin and hybrid resins can achieve far finer details; but come with their own problems (you thankfully don't get airbubble problems with plastics)
Agreed, a really smashing painting! I just had a thought - I'm guessing that these paintings are mostly (if not entirely) done digitally now? It seems as though we are seeing many more of them these days, and their quality is only getting better. Although, this has probably been the case for many years, and is probably the standard in the trade thesis days
Again, an absolutely stunning piece. That Hive Tyrant is terrifying- kudos to the artist!
No no guys! Don't you know new art is all terrible! It lacks something called "soul" or "inspiration" which I believe is the trendy way of saying "nostalgia" these days.
NinthMusketeer wrote: No no guys! Don't you know new art is all terrible! It lacks something called "soul" or "inspiration" which I believe is the trendy way of saying "nostalgia" these days.
This would be a snarky and belittling comment had anyone actually said anything to that effect in this thread.
However, everyone seems to adore this artwork, so what's the point of this comment?
NinthMusketeer wrote: No no guys! Don't you know new art is all terrible! It lacks something called "soul" or "inspiration" which I believe is the trendy way of saying "nostalgia" these days.
This would be a snarky and belittling comment had anyone actually said anything to that effect in this thread.
However, everyone seems to adore this artwork, so what's the point of this comment?
It's a totally awesome piece of artwork. I was expressing sarcastic satire of people who sit and say new art sucks compared to the old, without any sort of objective reasoning. While completely breezing by how difficult it is to actually make really good art, not to mention the obvious improvements in color & quantity that have happened over the last 15-20 years. Really, such comments stem from rose-colored goggles that no artist will be able to replicate.
I was not responding to anyone specifically, or anyone from this thread, but rather the trend overall.
Shot at me by chance there NinthMusketeer? I did give my reasons why the artwork was no good when I said it was no good. I don't see anyone complaining about this artwork yet. If they did I am sure they would give reasons as to why they don't like it. I think you jumped the gun a bit too soon with that comment.
For me, I do like it. As a nid player it's inspiring to try and recreate the feel the artist did over here. Before I was not to excited for the Nid release but now seeing this, I can say "I like to see more". Not so negative as I was before, but still how do I say it, apprehensive? I guess, I can always forgive but never forget if that makes sense.
Davor wrote: Shot at me by chance there NinthMusketeer? I did give my reasons why the artwork was no good when I said it was no good. I don't see anyone complaining about this artwork yet. If they did I am sure they would give reasons as to why they don't like it. I think you jumped the gun a bit too soon with that comment.
For me, I do like it. As a nid player it's inspiring to try and recreate the feel the artist did over here. Before I was not to excited for the Nid release but now seeing this, I can say "I like to see more". Not so negative as I was before, but still how do I say it, apprehensive? I guess, I can always forgive but never forget if that makes sense.
Not you or anyone specific, I don't even recall which instance you are referring to. But this is getting a bit off topic so perhaps PM would be better if we want to continue the discussion.
NinthMusketeer wrote: No no guys! Don't you know new art is all terrible! It lacks something called "soul" or "inspiration" which I believe is the trendy way of saying "nostalgia" these days.
[applause]
On topic, I honestly wish this art was in the AdMech codex. It works equally well for both sides- Nids as the unstoppable menace, AdMech as faith in technology/duty over the odds. Very evocative. Hope we get more work from this artist in other books. I'd love to see a take on orks.
'After his display of bravery in the cave of the tiny dragons, Leeroy was given the honor of becoming a skitarius in the vast legions of the Omnissiah. Unfortunately, no amount of imbedded protocols could overwelm Skitarius Jenkins need to charge at tiny dragons, leading to his untimely demise when he apparently misjudged the stature of one particularly UN-tiny dragon.'
Looks like the profile of a ravenor to me. Low to the ground too, about the right size maybe? the other heads and shapes around it are gants, and are comparitive in size.
Preparing myself for massive disappointment. The ongoing chorus of "let things settle out" from the more tunnel visioned Guard players will be fun at least.
adamsouza wrote: Expect the cries of power creep and that the Tyranids are the most OP codex ever on the 30th.
Clearly all nonsense as always. When has GW ever released anything but perfectly balanced books where every conceivable list from every available book is meticulously balanced with everything else to mathematical perfection?
New Dominatrix sitting on the toilet?
But the seriously I hope that they will not go the lazy way and give nids the Swarmy as the only LoW choice and that there really is a new/old gargantuan for the codex (even if that pic is not it).
The thought of nids receiving a top tier book is amusing.
Edition after edition I'm used to trying the new book in the hopes that more than 1 build is a viable option.
This sadly hasn't been the case since my favourite create-a-nid codex from time past.
I don't want an overly powerful book that dominates tournaments though.
Just one that offers multiple builds that are actually viable to use.
I'd love to see warriors become useful again rather than a point sink.
As a side note, I'd like my GMCs to actually have a use too.
Last edition or the one before didn't treat them great and they were a joke.
Jackal wrote: The thought of nids receiving a top tier book is amusing.
Edition after edition I'm used to trying the new book in the hopes that more than 1 build is a viable option.
This sadly hasn't been the case since my favourite create-a-nid codex from time past.
I don't want an overly powerful book that dominates tournaments though.
Just one that offers multiple builds that are actually viable to use.
I'd love to see warriors become useful again rather than a point sink.
As a side note, I'd like my GMCs to actually have a use too.
Last edition or the one before didn't treat them great and they were a joke.
I keep hoping for similar improvements for Tyranid Warriors. I feel as if they are better in this edition due to Instant Death being removed and the fact that S6 and S7 weapons are only wounding on a 3+ now; however, they still feel so... mediocre. I still can't help but wonder why they're not Psykers... they really should be. I might even suggest the idea that all Tyranid units with Synapse should be Psykers. This might make Warriors better and more viable and it would also make the Trygon Prime much more interesting.
Since we're sort of wish-listing, I might as well add my thoughts:
1) All units with Synapse become Psykers.
Sounds like fun to me. I'm sure the codex will re-introduce powers like Psychic Scream or Dominion. I'm hoping there are some viable alternatives to Catalyst. Some powers to whip Tyranid units into an agitated feeding frenzy would be cool. Maybe something that increases their WS, S or A attributes on the charge or something?
2) A new Termagant and Hormagaunt kit.
The kits have been around since the Tyranids were re-released for 3rd edition. The options for all of the Termagant bio-weapons would be pretty cool. I miss having Spike Rifles and Stranglewebs. However, considering how awful the weapons are now, GW would have to substantially re-imagine their niche and attributes to become viable because, frankly, they might be the worst weapons ever. Hormagaunt kits are just bad. I wish they could make a quality kit of dynamic Hormagaunts that would actually not fall over every time the table shakes.
3) A new Carnifex kit.
Just port over the FW Stone Crusher Carnifex bio-weapons. Please. FW prices + international shipping charges are so scary that my wallet actually weeps when I think about ordering something.
4) A flying support unit.
I imagine it's because I've been playing a lot of SC2 lately, but I wish Tyranids had a unit like the Zerg Viper; a monstrous creature that flies, has some supporting abilities to reduce the range of enemy ranged weapons and/or could use some crazy tentacles to abduct enemy characters in an attempt to drag them closer to be mulched by other Tyranid units. They could even call it something like a Tyranid Siren to keep up with their flying monstrous creature naming convention. Crone, harpy, siren. Sounds fun to me.
5) Living ammunition and cool biomorphs.
Imagine a Fleshborer Hive with Living Ammunition? It might actually be worth taking. I want to utilize all of these biomorph bits I have laying around. So many different Carnifex and Genestealer heads just begging to be used again. Does anyone remember Voltage Fields from the 2nd edition Tyranid codex? It was awesome. Bring back Thorax weapons and change tail weapons to be optional instead of having to devote a mandatory attack to them.
6) Hive fleet traits and stratagems.
I'm sure the new codex will follow the lead of other codices, but I would love something unique. I'm not sure what, but I'd like to not have a copy pasta from the other 8th edition books. I'm not saying that they're not good (they obviously are), but I don't want Tyranids to be like "every other army". Surely being apex predators from beyond the universe is worth something other than a handful of re-named traits and stratagems.
7) Make Lictors great again!
I haven't used Lictors since 2nd edition. They were wicked fighters, brutal in close combat and generally way scarier than they are now. Turn them back into the assassin bugs they were meant to be.
8) Fix Tyranid flyers.
Getting rid of the minimum movement requirement and giving them Hard To Hit would be a good start. However, I feel like Crones and Harpies still need more work; their middling BS, WS and armor save hurts pretty badly.
9) Adaptability and customization.
3rd and 4th edition Tyranids epitomized this and those were the best times to be a Tyranid player. Ever since 5th edition, Tyranids have been woefully inadequate at doing anything particularly well and that trend has carried over into every new edition since then. Cool looking models sell well but good rules can sell more.
Alcibiades wrote: I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
It's the platform it comes on. Fleshborer sits on an expensive tyrannofex that needs to stand still with a short ranged weapon to get any real value out of it. Nobody will get that close to let it do it's thing without just charging it to deny it from shooting all together.
Alcibiades wrote: I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.
Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..
edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.
Shadow Walker wrote: It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.
Part of me would love some new gaunt kits; but another part kind of wants them to stay visually the same - if just because building swarms takes time and having them visually the same fits with the idea of Tyranid swarms.
I think a triple gaunt kit would require some serious adjustments to how they appear right now in order to carry it off in a practical manner as basically you'd require 3 different body shapes for each gaunt in the box.
What I would like to see is an upgrades kit with the various other guns for your basic gaunt to have access too (as things like spike rifles haven't existed since gaunts were made of metal). However I suspect that GW will simply remove those weapon choices from the codex rather than doing an upgrade sprue or new gaunt sprue. A shame to lose some diversity, but a good move if we are not going to get a proper weapon model for them. (though considering how many upgrade packs there are just for space marine shoulder pads I can't believe GW couldn't make a small upgrade sprue or two for tyranids = gaunt guns and tryanid warrior wings - heck throw rippers into the gaunt guns sprue to help generate sales for them
Shadow Walker wrote: It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.
I wouldn't, a triple kit like that would mean you'd be paying a lot per miniature which isn't good when you needs hundreds of the little bastards.
If new gaunts were coming out, my request would be that they are made smaller. I've never liked the massive size of Termagants given they are supposed to be quite weak.
Alcibiades wrote: I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.
Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..
edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.
If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.
Alcibiades wrote: I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.
Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..
edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.
If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.
Alcibiades wrote: I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
A Punisher has 24" range (30" for Valhallans), costs 20pts to put on a 130pt Russ and fires twice if it moves under 5". You can also slap on a tank order to re-roll 1's.
Uh, a Fleshborer Hive has 18" range, costs 28pts to put on a 199pt Tyrannofex, and fires twice if it doesn't move at all. So a 50% higher cost for an objectively worse weapon..
edit: you can also take punishers on BS2+/3+ tank commanders, who still work out cheaper than a BS4+ T-fex.
If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.
I see what you mean but its not a good line of thinking.
Certainly armies as a whole have to have weak and strong points; but if you give an army a weapon which is essentially useless or very underpowered then people won't use it. That weapon choice is then a waste of a choice because it would never see play and to take it would be to take a handicap.
The ideal is weapon choices which are diverse and yet each has its own niche. Of course competitive metas will generally isolate a few choices as being the most efficient; but balance (good balance) is about having a very small window of variation between good and bad.
When there's a large window its a problem as you get super underpowered and/or super overpowered choices. That cuts down on army variety.
If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.
But that's what points values are for isn't it? Not every unit should be the same, but if they are demonstrably worse then they should at least cost less points. This is like game design 101.
If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.
But that's what points values are for isn't it? Not every unit should be the same, but if they are demonstrably worse then they should at least cost less points. This is like game design 101.
Units should be balanced within armies not just alone; so its no surprise that some units might have a similar role/stat line to others in a different army and yet have a very different points value. The idea being that whilst they are different one to the other; they fill a different niche within an army context.
This is the complexity of balance; units can't just be done against each other it has to be done within army context.
If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.
But that's what points values are for isn't it? Not every unit should be the same, but if they are demonstrably worse then they should at least cost less points. This is like game design 101.
Units should be balanced within armies not just alone; so its no surprise that some units might have a similar role/stat line to others in a different army and yet have a very different points value. The idea being that whilst they are different one to the other; they fill a different niche within an army context.
This is the complexity of balance; units can't just be done against each other it has to be done within army context.
.
Essentially this is my point. If I see across the table you took a similar weapon profile to mine but know I pay cheaper for it then you it gives me a sense of the difference in the armies. Ideally there are no similar profiles due to diversity in the rule set, but we don't have that in 40kATM. having weapon profiles that are identical between armies with just different names is what I'm advocating against here. Prolly should shut up now as I'm not a nid player, just hopeful they get the attention they deserve as being the apocalyptic bug enable that should imo be the apex evil in 40k, rising above necrons, chaos, orks and the rest.
Shadow Walker wrote: It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.
I wouldn't, a triple kit like that would mean you'd be paying a lot per miniature which isn't good when you needs hundreds of the little bastards.
If new gaunts were coming out, my request would be that they are made smaller. I've never liked the massive size of Termagants given they are supposed to be quite weak.
The current Hormagaunt and Termagant sprues are remarkably brilliant for their age! I’m painting up a load of them atm. I agree that they could be smaller. The current Gargoyle kit is comparatively very new (2009), and they are super crisp sculpts. It would be nice to see the Horms/Terms freshened up - similarly to the Gargoyles - with a slightly smaller size, too. Not a kit with half of the options that you don’t want. What I would like is a good DEAL for them! £15.00 for a set of twenty bugs. GW, please :( ( And Hormagaunts that don’t fall over )
As for game balance, I could hardly imagine what that entails. Although different, but not too dissimilar, Blizzard has a hard time trying to balance three races in Starcraft 2. Some of you make it sound very simple, but I should imagine that perfect game balance in something like 40k is nigh-impossible. Perhaps it is only about points cost, but I’m sure that is just the tip of the iceberg...
I find it difficult measuring the "power creep" from the simple matter of they put the points values in the back of the Codex books AND they sometimes roll the weapon into the model points cost.
I have been entering in the models and weapons into Excel to do some comparative pricing (I really need to use a OCR scanner...) and seeing some occasional points costs that seem... arbitrary.
I have all the Codex books to date, I am NOT entering in the Index stuff, I have a life to live.
In the end, it is helpful to sort the weapon capability, compare it to the relative WS/BS/S characteristics and point value.
They already change points value for the BS of the model using say a plasma gun.
I really do hope Tyranid get some new Codex love, I never collected the army but found them fun to see.
Shadow Walker wrote: It will probably never happen but I would like to see a kit for all gaunts = you can make Hormies, Termas and Gargs from it.
I wouldn't, a triple kit like that would mean you'd be paying a lot per miniature which isn't good when you needs hundreds of the little bastards.
If new gaunts were coming out, my request would be that they are made smaller. I've never liked the massive size of Termagants given they are supposed to be quite weak.
I agree that they should be smaller. In fiction they are described as a dog (probably big dog) sized.
Twoshoes23 wrote: Essentially this is my point. If I see across the table you took a similar weapon profile to mine but know I pay cheaper for it then you it gives me a sense of the difference in the armies. Ideally there are no similar profiles due to diversity in the rule set, but we don't have that in 40kATM. having weapon profiles that are identical between armies with just different names is what I'm advocating against here. Prolly should shut up now as I'm not a nid player, just hopeful they get the attention they deserve as being the apocalyptic bug enable that should imo be the apex evil in 40k, rising above necrons, chaos, orks and the rest.
That's naïve. What will actually happen is that that weapon will not see play except in fluffy builds or if it has sick synergy with the rest of the army, at which point you might as well switch it out for something that is more thematically appropriate.
That's exactly what is happening for fleshborer hive tyrannofexes.
And still, it has nothing to do with the original point of discussion:
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
Stating that the punishier gatling is OP compared to the fleshborer hive because one, platform included, costs about 2/3 than the other, platform included as well, while also having more range is a perfectly reasonable explanation of why people find one OP and the other one not.
If we make each faction equal to each other then what differentiates them anymore besides the models? The hard truth is some factions have to have worse/better options and units then others to make this game interesting.
But that's what points values are for isn't it? Not every unit should be the same, but if they are demonstrably worse then they should at least cost less points. This is like game design 101.
Units should be balanced within armies not just alone; so its no surprise that some units might have a similar role/stat line to others in a different army and yet have a very different points value. The idea being that whilst they are different one to the other; they fill a different niche within an army context.
This is the complexity of balance; units can't just be done against each other it has to be done within army context.
.
Essentially this is my point. If I see across the table you took a similar weapon profile to mine but know I pay cheaper for it then you it gives me a sense of the difference in the armies. Ideally there are no similar profiles due to diversity in the rule set, but we don't have that in 40kATM. having weapon profiles that are identical between armies with just different names is what I'm advocating against here. Prolly should shut up now as I'm not a nid player, just hopeful they get the attention they deserve as being the apocalyptic bug enable that should imo be the apex evil in 40k, rising above necrons, chaos, orks and the rest.
Except this is nonsense in this case. The TFex isn't worth taking because it's guns are too short range to use it's other abilities. And the guns that are not too short a range have too few shots to do anything with it's midling BS. It's an expensive platform that under performs. Exocrines on the other hand have a great gun that both shoots twice ad increases it's BS to 3+ when it stands still with a 36" range and costs about the same. Why would anyone take a Tfex when they could just have more Exocrines?
The fleshborer hive is not OP because there is no way to bring it where it will ever get anything done. You won't look accross the table and see one unless you find an opponent who doesn't know any better yet or is just trying it out as a goof. The TFex in general is a non option.
I hope they fix that. Or at least make the two more distinct from one another. Honestly, the T-fex should probably be the mobile one, while the Exocrine is the artillery beast. Give them different roles and rules to match and it's all fixed...
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
Stating that the punishier gatling is OP compared to the fleshborer hive because one, platform included, costs about 2/3 than the other, platform included as well, while also having more range is a perfectly reasonable explanation of why people find one OP and the other one not.
Not to mention, when mounted on a Vulture, there are two of them, and that thing can get to anywhere on the table in a given turn...or at least anywhere they can get a bead on and range to what they want to hit....
Being on the receiving end of that thing is demoralizing as a bug player...especially if you play lots of little bugs and don't have any Malanthropes hanging around...
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
Stating that the punishier gatling is OP compared to the fleshborer hive because one, platform included, costs about 2/3 than the other, platform included as well, while also having more range is a perfectly reasonable explanation of why people find one OP and the other one not.
Not to mention, when mounted on a Vulture, there are two of them, and that thing can get to anywhere on the table in a given turn...or at least anywhere they can get a bead on and range to what they want to hit....
Being on the receiving end of that thing is demoralizing as a bug player...especially if you play lots of little bugs and don't have any Malanthropes hanging around...
doesnt it need 4+ to hit? does it suffer from moving and shooting?
cant wait to see what they do for nids, hopefully they are up there with the best of them
I think it's hilarious that a Punisher gatling is supposedly OP, and a fleshborer hive is supposedly not worth taking.
They have the same statline,
Stating that the punishier gatling is OP compared to the fleshborer hive because one, platform included, costs about 2/3 than the other, platform included as well, while also having more range is a perfectly reasonable explanation of why people find one OP and the other one not.
Not to mention, when mounted on a Vulture, there are two of them, and that thing can get to anywhere on the table in a given turn...or at least anywhere they can get a bead on and range to what they want to hit....
Being on the receiving end of that thing is demoralizing as a bug player...especially if you play lots of little bugs and don't have any Malanthropes hanging around...
doesnt it need 4+ to hit? does it suffer from moving and shooting?
Yes, it needs 4+ to hit at its highest Wound bracket(8-14). It has a special rule called "Strafing Run" that grants +1 to Hit rolls against anything that does not have the "Fly" keyword.
Man, I've been reading the thread on the CWE codex and it has me salivating. If our 'dex gets the kind of point drops that the Eldar got, I'll be ecstatic.
Can I make a point as a newbie to the Tyranid family?
What I want is survive-ability and the further added ability to be a threat.
I'm not a game designer, I admit. But I can't help but wonder why our bugs don't have access to some kind of regeneration ability, and why Acid blood isn't more prevalent as an upgrade for monsters.
Also, I love my Haruspex. She is such a good monster, but WHY the feth does she hit in CC on a 4+?? It seems to me like so many of our CC models have abysmal chances to hit, and not enough attacks to compensate. Never mind that the other codex armies so far have access to a massive variety of extremely powerful stuff.
If we get points reductions, I'll be happy. But I want to see actual change among the stats. That's where the real problem is, in my opinion.
If your new to nids then I just hope you missed the last few books :/
Hasn't been a great run since back when we could really tinker with upgrades on them (was mutatable genus 4th?)
Been kind of down hill since then really which is sad.
Aesthetically nids to me are one of the best armies with huge potential for models.
But sadly the rules keep killing it off.
On that note, lash whips took a beating with the nerf bat too.
So on one hand, nids warriors can take a missile now (finally!)
But on the other, their weapons are changed a fair bit too.
Either way though, with the loss of instant death to a degree, it's looking up!
I am hoping there is a generic bonus for hive fleets themselves, and a penalty to enemies within synapse range.
Like army gets 6+ wound ignores or -1 to hit like some others get, but an additional boost like a penalty to leadership for enemies within synapse range, or penalties to charge range, or even not being g able to get cover while in synapse.
Little things that make you want to get closer with synapse creatures instead of sitting back and babysitting.
I would like to see hive fleet rules benefit specific subsets of units, or better yet specific biomorphs, rather than being a blanket across all units. Something like 'all devourer weapons in hive fleet shootymaggot are +1 str' or 'adrenal glands cost 0 pts for hive fleet jumpystabstab'.
I hope Tyranid traits are like Imperial Guard ones, with two parts, one for small bugs and other for the big bugs, that way they can have things like advance+charge for the small bugs and something else for the big ones, so they can be better balanced, etc...
Best plastic termagants are the single piece ones from 2nd ed. Those things were even the right size. The current ones just need a saddle and a guardmen riding them into battle.
So its 2 weeks before pre-order week and 1 week from likely official news releases begin. There must be some rumours out there in the vast world of the web for us?
Overread wrote: So its 2 weeks before pre-order week and 1 week from likely official news releases begin. There must be some rumours out there in the vast world of the web for us?
In the year you joined this glorious board there was a N&R Tyranid thread 62 pages of wishlisting with only one new picture. I think I'm good.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I would like to see hive fleet rules benefit specific subsets of units, or better yet specific biomorphs, rather than being a blanket across all units. Something like 'all devourer weapons in hive fleet shootymaggot are +1 str' or 'adrenal glands cost 0 pts for hive fleet jumpystabstab'.
I'm pretty sure that wont happen. Craftworlds was the perfect opportunity for that to happen as each of the big 5 focus on a different selection of units yet only the Saim-Hann trait works in that way. On the upside Craftworlds had all 5 of it's traits useful to one type of army build or another (they were aligned with the wrong craftworlds, but all of them were good to some extent) so I'm hoping Nids continue that trend.
It's not so much the additional fiddling it takes to build the unit, but that I need to do so many of them. And where the mould channels link up on some (seriously....why in such awkward areas??)
Red Corsair wrote: Best plastic termagants are the single piece ones from 2nd ed.
Single piece? The picture literally shows their three pieces.
Anyway, these were the best:
Look just like the current ones, but no two-piece heads.
The tails of the Termagants are the only thing about the model that still bother me to this day. Why are all of them completely straight!?
Real creatures like dinosaurs that have the Gant body style actually have rigid tails, not flexible ones. It's a counterweight to allow them to move on two legs, and not a tail like a snake or a dog has.
Overread wrote: So its 2 weeks before pre-order week and 1 week from likely official news releases begin. There must be some rumours out there in the vast world of the web for us?
Ok here's one.
I was at heat 1 of the GT and chatted to some of the devs, who were there competing. We discussed that there's a problem with characters that have >9 wounds, in that their survivability suddenly drops away because people can shoot them, and because they degrade. Apparently the Nid players in the playtest group had been asking for their characters to have 9 wounds, to keep them from being shot. The devs didn't think that was ok, as the models were too big to have so few wounds.
So instead, you can expect to see the durability of the big guys go up, in some way. I got the impression that they'd get more wounds, but it might be something else.
Sorry to be so vague. It's interesting that they are looking at changing profiles, rather than points values.
Overread wrote: So its 2 weeks before pre-order week and 1 week from likely official news releases begin. There must be some rumours out there in the vast world of the web for us?
In the year you joined this glorious board there was a N&R Tyranid thread 62 pages of wishlisting with only one new picture. I think I'm good.
Oh come on, that thread was just pure entertainment, you couldn't help but follow it....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Togusa wrote: Can I make a point as a newbie to the Tyranid family?
What I want is survive-ability and the further added ability to be a threat.
I'm not a game designer, I admit. But I can't help but wonder why our bugs don't have access to some kind of regeneration ability, and why Acid blood isn't more prevalent as an upgrade for monsters.
Also, I love my Haruspex. She is such a good monster, but WHY the feth does she hit in CC on a 4+?? It seems to me like so many of our CC models have abysmal chances to hit, and not enough attacks to compensate. Never mind that the other codex armies so far have access to a massive variety of extremely powerful stuff.
If we get points reductions, I'll be happy. But I want to see actual change among the stats. That's where the real problem is, in my opinion.
I agree with this, I mean I still don't understand why our characters can't get 2+ armor and how they decide some of the stats, however GW has made it brutally, explicitly clear from history that they are not going to provide us with these type of upgrades, so I am holding out hope for what they seem to be providing to everybody. Our last 2 codices, were utter steaming piles of gak, so I'm hoping this one just puts us on the level of CWE, CSM, and SM (sorry AdMech players).
Red Corsair wrote: Best plastic termagants are the single piece ones from 2nd ed.
Single piece? The picture literally shows their three pieces.
Anyway, these were the best:
Look just like the current ones, but no two-piece heads.
The tails of the Termagants are the only thing about the model that still bother me to this day. Why are all of them completely straight!?
Real creatures like dinosaurs that have the Gant body style actually have rigid tails, not flexible ones. It's a counterweight to allow them to move on two legs, and not a tail like a snake or a dog has.
Overread wrote: So its 2 weeks before pre-order week and 1 week from likely official news releases begin. There must be some rumours out there in the vast world of the web for us?
In the year you joined this glorious board there was a N&R Tyranid thread 62 pages of wishlisting with only one new picture. I think I'm good.
Oh come on, that thread was just pure entertainment, you couldn't help but follow it....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Togusa wrote: Can I make a point as a newbie to the Tyranid family?
What I want is survive-ability and the further added ability to be a threat.
I'm not a game designer, I admit. But I can't help but wonder why our bugs don't have access to some kind of regeneration ability, and why Acid blood isn't more prevalent as an upgrade for monsters.
Also, I love my Haruspex. She is such a good monster, but WHY the feth does she hit in CC on a 4+?? It seems to me like so many of our CC models have abysmal chances to hit, and not enough attacks to compensate. Never mind that the other codex armies so far have access to a massive variety of extremely powerful stuff.
If we get points reductions, I'll be happy. But I want to see actual change among the stats. That's where the real problem is, in my opinion.
I agree with this, I mean I still don't understand why our characters can't get 2+ armor and how they decide some of the stats, however GW has made it brutally, explicitly clear from history that they are not going to provide us with these type of upgrades, so I am holding out hope for what they seem to be providing to everybody. Our last 2 codices, were utter steaming piles of gak, so I'm hoping this one just puts us on the level of CWE, CSM, and SM (sorry AdMech players).
I'd love to see either gaunts made a little smaller or be allowed to jump up to a 32mm base. They are basically the same size as other minis on 32mm like space marines and genestealers.
BrotherGecko wrote: I'd love to see either gaunts made a little smaller or be allowed to jump up to a 32mm base. They are basically the same size as other minis on 32mm like space marines and genestealers.
BrotherGecko wrote: I'd love to see either gaunts made a little smaller or be allowed to jump up to a 32mm base. They are basically the same size as other minis on 32mm like space marines and genestealers.
If this happens I am not rebasing 200 gaunts .
Youd never have to either. By the rules, you can base them on what they came with or any other size. I don't see why they would go to 32mm. They are not that big for it.
If we get points reductions, I'll be happy. But I want to see actual change among the stats. That's where the real problem is, in my opinion.
I agree with this, I mean I still don't understand why our characters can't get 2+ armor and how they decide some of the stats, however GW has made it brutally, explicitly clear from history that they are not going to provide us with these type of upgrades, so I am holding out hope for what they seem to be providing to everybody. Our last 2 codices, were utter steaming piles of gak, so I'm hoping this one just puts us on the level of CWE, CSM, and SM (sorry AdMech players).
2+ armo(u)r is very rare. Baneblades don't have it.
Things like Haruspexes and Carnifexes are antitank critters, mostly. You;re going to have to balance out number of attacks and strength and WS so that the proper result of damaging a tank without 100% killing it is achieved.
If we get points reductions, I'll be happy. But I want to see actual change among the stats. That's where the real problem is, in my opinion.
I agree with this, I mean I still don't understand why our characters can't get 2+ armor and how they decide some of the stats, however GW has made it brutally, explicitly clear from history that they are not going to provide us with these type of upgrades, so I am holding out hope for what they seem to be providing to everybody. Our last 2 codices, were utter steaming piles of gak, so I'm hoping this one just puts us on the level of CWE, CSM, and SM (sorry AdMech players).
2+ armo(u)r is very rare. Baneblades don't have it.
Things like Haruspexes and Carnifexes are antitank critters, mostly. You;re going to have to balance out number of attacks and strength and WS so that the proper result of damaging a tank without 100% killing it is achieved.
I know fluff is fluff blah blah blah, but most things that get 2+ saves are usually justified from fluff. Land raiders, terminators etc. The likes of carnifexes etc are not impossible to hurt in the fluff, you can blow chunks out of them without resorting to the best of the best heavy weapons, the issue has and should remain that they don't give a flying about the chunk been blown off them, you're going to have to blow another 6 or 7 out of them for them to stop. That's what Nids are to me, easy to hurt, painful to stop.
I think the hive fleets will be more like Chapter Tactics that are a blanket buff to the army rather than specific units like say IG.
I foresee points drops in a lot of stuff simply bc that seems to be the way GW goes. Cheaper points = more models = mores sales.
I WANT MONSTROUS RENDING CLAWS FOR HIVE TYRANT!
Would like to see a new kit but I doubt that will happen.
Seems to me the sculpts were all for the Primaris range.
I would also like to be able to have the Broodlord attach to a unit of genestealers and go for the Trygon tunnel ride. Same for something like Primes with warriors.
I think gaunts with fleshborers may drop to be the equivalent of a conscript. (hope rather).
Tervigon point drop.
Biovore kit with 3x units like the raveners and Venomthrope kits.
I wouldn't have a problem with survivability if the bugs were cheaper to offset their fragilness. If a few plasma guns can down a hive tyrant then I should be able to to take a few of them to make up for it.
My real problem with the Nid dex is the lack of AP. If you're up against vehicles then the only real answer is close combat and only MCs can deal with them. Except Carnifexen. They're just plain awful. Broodlords can tear apart tanks well but they're expensive.
Index Nids are in a funny place I feel. I'm not sure what they're supposed to do. I'm hoping the codex gives them more of a place beyond genestealer spam.
If we get points reductions, I'll be happy. But I want to see actual change among the stats. That's where the real problem is, in my opinion.
I agree with this, I mean I still don't understand why our characters can't get 2+ armor and how they decide some of the stats, however GW has made it brutally, explicitly clear from history that they are not going to provide us with these type of upgrades, so I am holding out hope for what they seem to be providing to everybody. Our last 2 codices, were utter steaming piles of gak, so I'm hoping this one just puts us on the level of CWE, CSM, and SM (sorry AdMech players).
2+ armo(u)r is very rare. Baneblades don't have it.
Things like Haruspexes and Carnifexes are antitank critters, mostly. You;re going to have to balance out number of attacks and strength and WS so that the proper result of damaging a tank without 100% killing it is achieved.
Well according to the developer I spoke to at heat one of the UKGT, stats are indeed going to change. They've identified that models like hive tyrants aren't tough enough, and are doing something about it. From what he said, it sounded like they'd get a bump in their wounds, though I don't know by how much.
A 2+ save would be a bit unlikely I think. This is for really seriously tempered ceramite armour and stuff. Actually not many units at all get it. A living creature would be extremely unlikely to be that tough.
That said, I wouldn't be shocked if there was the equivalent of a relic giving you a 2+ save. That's pure speculation, but other codices have often had relics that made their owners tougher.
I think as far as AP goes they could make the Bone Mace like a Multi Melta. Look at the Venerable dreadnought for comparison. Make the bone mace AP 4, increase his movement to 9". Increase his weapons skill (maybe not BS). Give invul save. Its clear GW wants these guys to wreck in melee phase, so give us a reason to do that.
Having Carnifex being able to charge into tanks and survive with high ap would make them nice.
If the bone mace was our "multi melta" with ap-4 and all our MC could take it that would go far in helping with A{/
If we get points reductions, I'll be happy. But I want to see actual change among the stats. That's where the real problem is, in my opinion.
I agree with this, I mean I still don't understand why our characters can't get 2+ armor and how they decide some of the stats, however GW has made it brutally, explicitly clear from history that they are not going to provide us with these type of upgrades, so I am holding out hope for what they seem to be providing to everybody. Our last 2 codices, were utter steaming piles of gak, so I'm hoping this one just puts us on the level of CWE, CSM, and SM (sorry AdMech players).
2+ armo(u)r is very rare. Baneblades don't have it.
Things like Haruspexes and Carnifexes are antitank critters, mostly. You;re going to have to balance out number of attacks and strength and WS so that the proper result of damaging a tank without 100% killing it is achieved.
Well according to the developer I spoke to at heat one of the UKGT, stats are indeed going to change. They've identified that models like hive tyrants aren't tough enough, and are doing something about it. From what he said, it sounded like they'd get a bump in their wounds, though I don't know by how much.
A 2+ save would be a bit unlikely I think. This is for really seriously tempered ceramite armour and stuff. Actually not many units at all get it. A living creature would be extremely unlikely to be that tough.
That said, I wouldn't be shocked if there was the equivalent of a relic giving you a 2+ save. That's pure speculation, but other codices have often had relics that made their owners tougher.
Or just additional points of Toughness? The Wraithlord got that in the Eldar book. Perhaps there will be bumps up to T7/8 for bigger gribblies.
If we don't get a 2+; just give out more invuls so that when our armor gets penetrated we at least still get something.
I think a few more named characters would be nice as well. I would like to see them bring back The Doom of Malantai and the Parasite of Mortex. We only have 3 right now and most factions have about a half dozen or more.
As far as warlord traits I can see them doing something specific to the hive fleets much like they did with the craftworlds.
Also something like an Anti Aircraft gun that is more widely available would be nice.
Yeah, could be. I got the impression he was talking about wounds though. He said that the Tyranid players had asked to have a hive tyrant go down to 9 wounds, so that it could hide, but that that wouldn't be right with a model of that size. So instead they are going with more wounds. I'm not sure how many more.
Even just making it not Degrade would be beneficial. Just look at the HT compared to say a Daemon prince. Of course if the base HT goes up in wounds, then I imagine the Swarmlord will as well.
I like the sounds of stat changes. We have some of the most impressive big monster kits in the game but I feel let down by them on the table most of the time.
Dynas wrote: If we don't get a 2+; just give out more invuls so that when our armor gets penetrated we at least still get something.
It could also be something like the Steel Legion trait where AP gets reduced on weapons of a certain value.
I think a few more named characters would be nice as well. I would like to see them bring back The Doom of Malantai and the Parasite of Mortex. We only have 3 right now and most factions have about a half dozen or more.
To be fair, Tyranid named characters are one of the few things that actually can work real well as "it was a named character once--now it's just a mutation that everyone can get."
As far as warlord traits I can see them doing something specific to the hive fleets much like they did with the craftworlds.
That's basically a guarantee. We have <HIVE FLEET> just like we had <REGIMENT>, <CHAPTER>, <FORGE WORLD>, etc.
Also something like an Anti Aircraft gun that is more widely available would be nice.
With any luck, they'll make the Sporocyst into its own kit at some point.
Ratius wrote: Are there any rumours left here? Seems very wish-listy the last few pages =/
Well as I said, I got my information from a games developer at Warhammer World. He was vague, but gave the clear impression that Hive Tyrants (and he did also mention the swarmlord) would get more wounds. He actually gave the impression they were still testing different options at that point, though with a release date just weeks away that seems unlikely. I was surprised to see the book up for preorder so soon.
It's not wishlisting because I don't play tyrannids and haven't played against them in 8th. I don't really care either way, though I would like to see more balance between the armies and especially for my Tau!
In fact I don't think I saw an army of either Nids or Tau at the heat - which was mostly full of armies that have codices already.
I think a few more named characters would be nice as well. I would like to see them bring back The Doom of Malantai and the Parasite of Mortex. We only have 3 right now and most factions have about a half dozen or more.
Doom is unlikely to return as we have a Neurothrope in Zoanthrope kit which basically is ''Not Doom''.
Ratius wrote: Are there any rumours left here? Seems very wish-listy the last few pages =/
Well as I said, I got my information from a games developer at Warhammer World. He was vague, but gave the clear impression that Hive Tyrants (and he did also mention the swarmlord) would get more wounds. He actually gave the impression they were still testing different options at that point, though with a release date just weeks away that seems unlikely. I was surprised to see the book up for preorder so soon.
It's not wishlisting because I don't play tyrannids and haven't played against them in 8th. I don't really care either way, though I would like to see more balance between the armies and especially for my Tau!
In fact I don't think I saw an army of either Nids or Tau at the heat - which was mostly full of armies that have codices already.
Would love to meet s developer and pick their brain. Contemptor dreadnought is almost half the points of a Hive tyrant and pull it apart in one turn with its exilent 2+. Stupid decision giving Give tyrant more wound, how many? 10 more? Well, cut his price in half and raise him a couple of wounds then im liking it more. GW have totaly destroyed the last 2 Tyranid dexex. They dont care about Tyranid player or even their dexes. They havent done a good job with the two last dexes so dont get your hopes up. Got a feeling they couldnt write a cool half competetive dex even if their life depended on it and that is a question by itself. How can you miss to do it? Its Alien, starship troopers and starcraft in one. Just watch em and adjust the points. Space buga are bad asses. Not lame stuff that cant hit in cc, shoot or even take a hit or two. Salty? You bet!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Altough, the index has some primising stuff. Do hope they develop el into something cool and good.
Ratius wrote: Are there any rumours left here? Seems very wish-listy the last few pages =/
Well as I said, I got my information from a games developer at Warhammer World. He was vague, but gave the clear impression that Hive Tyrants (and he did also mention the swarmlord) would get more wounds. He actually gave the impression they were still testing different options at that point, though with a release date just weeks away that seems unlikely. I was surprised to see the book up for preorder so soon.
It's not wishlisting because I don't play tyrannids and haven't played against them in 8th. I don't really care either way, though I would like to see more balance between the armies and especially for my Tau!
In fact I don't think I saw an army of either Nids or Tau at the heat - which was mostly full of armies that have codices already.
Would love to meet s developer and pick their brain. Contemptor dreadnought is almost half the points of a Hive tyrant and pull it apart in one turn with its exilent 2+. Stupid decision giving Give tyrant more wound, how many? 10 more? Well, cut his price in half and raise him a couple of wounds then im liking it more. GW have totaly destroyed the last 2 Tyranid dexex. They dont care about Tyranid player or even their dexes. They havent done a good job with the two last dexes so dont get your hopes up. Got a feeling they couldnt write a cool half competetive dex even if their life depended on it and that is a question by itself. How can you miss to do it? Its Alien, starship troopers and starcraft in one. Just watch em and adjust the points. Space buga are bad asses. Not lame stuff that cant hit in cc, shoot or even take a hit or two. Salty? You bet!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Altough, the index has some primising stuff. Do hope they develop el into something cool and good.
The last 2 codexes were written/designed entirely by Robin Cruddace. A real gak heel who loves tank heavy armys. He also helped with the core rules for 8th as a writer but not designer. Which is why we have logical errors in our 8 pages like pistols and assault weapons not working. By all accounts, they know how badly he fethed up individual codexes and they are not letting him near any of them as a rules designer.
Ratius wrote: Are there any rumours left here? Seems very wish-listy the last few pages =/
Well as I said, I got my information from a games developer at Warhammer World. He was vague, but gave the clear impression that Hive Tyrants (and he did also mention the swarmlord) would get more wounds. He actually gave the impression they were still testing different options at that point, though with a release date just weeks away that seems unlikely. I was surprised to see the book up for preorder so soon.
It's not wishlisting because I don't play tyrannids and haven't played against them in 8th. I don't really care either way, though I would like to see more balance between the armies and especially for my Tau!
In fact I don't think I saw an army of either Nids or Tau at the heat - which was mostly full of armies that have codices already.
Would love to meet s developer and pick their brain. Contemptor dreadnought is almost half the points of a Hive tyrant and pull it apart in one turn with its exilent 2+. Stupid decision giving Give tyrant more wound, how many? 10 more? Well, cut his price in half and raise him a couple of wounds then im liking it more. GW have totaly destroyed the last 2 Tyranid dexex. They dont care about Tyranid player or even their dexes. They havent done a good job with the two last dexes so dont get your hopes up. Got a feeling they couldnt write a cool half competetive dex even if their life depended on it and that is a question by itself. How can you miss to do it? Its Alien, starship troopers and starcraft in one. Just watch em and adjust the points. Space buga are bad asses. Not lame stuff that cant hit in cc, shoot or even take a hit or two. Salty? You bet!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Altough, the index has some primising stuff. Do hope they develop el into something cool and good.
The last 2 codexes were written/designed entirely by Robin Cruddace. A real gak heel who loves tank heavy armys. He also helped with the core rules for 8th as a writer but not designer. Which is why we have logical errors in our 8 pages like pistols and assault weapons not working. By all accounts, they know how badly he fethed up individual codexes and they are not letting him near any of them as a rules designer.
Really? Given in interviews it appears he was one of the big driving forces for the inception and development of 8th? Care to link any of these "all accounts"? Would be interesting.
Ratius wrote: Are there any rumours left here? Seems very wish-listy the last few pages =/
Well as I said, I got my information from a games developer at Warhammer World. He was vague, but gave the clear impression that Hive Tyrants (and he did also mention the swarmlord) would get more wounds. He actually gave the impression they were still testing different options at that point, though with a release date just weeks away that seems unlikely. I was surprised to see the book up for preorder so soon.
It's not wishlisting because I don't play tyrannids and haven't played against them in 8th. I don't really care either way, though I would like to see more balance between the armies and especially for my Tau!
In fact I don't think I saw an army of either Nids or Tau at the heat - which was mostly full of armies that have codices already.
Would love to meet s developer and pick their brain. Contemptor dreadnought is almost half the points of a Hive tyrant and pull it apart in one turn with its exilent 2+. Stupid decision giving Give tyrant more wound, how many? 10 more? Well, cut his price in half and raise him a couple of wounds then im liking it more. GW have totaly destroyed the last 2 Tyranid dexex. They dont care about Tyranid player or even their dexes. They havent done a good job with the two last dexes so dont get your hopes up. Got a feeling they couldnt write a cool half competetive dex even if their life depended on it and that is a question by itself. How can you miss to do it? Its Alien, starship troopers and starcraft in one. Just watch em and adjust the points. Space buga are bad asses. Not lame stuff that cant hit in cc, shoot or even take a hit or two. Salty? You bet!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Altough, the index has some primising stuff. Do hope they develop el into something cool and good.
Just in case this post isn’t sarcasm, a contemptor is 165 points, compared to roughly 200 points, it averages 5 wounds on a Tyrant in a round of combat, doesn’t buff the army around it, and isn’t a psyker. So...a 12-14 wound tyrant would be impressive, but cutting its points drastically is just ridiculous. It is strong in multiple phases, while a Dread isn’t really.
In my opinion the big brutes just need more wounds and toughness. People mentioning Aeldari wraiths getting toughness bumps are off base, as the index was the first time they were T5/7 rather than 6/8, but regardless Carnifex at 12 wounds and Tyrant with T7 seems much better to me.
I think a few more named characters would be nice as well. I would like to see them bring back The Doom of Malantai and the Parasite of Mortex. We only have 3 right now and most factions have about a half dozen or more.
Dynas wrote: Even just making it not Degrade would be beneficial. Just look at the HT compared to say a Daemon prince. Of course if the base HT goes up in wounds, then I imagine the Swarmlord will as well.
I'd like to see Tyranid creatures has a base statline, then an improved, adrenaline-boosted statline for the first step down, and then finally the degraded stats after that.
Ratius wrote: Are there any rumours left here? Seems very wish-listy the last few pages =/
Well as I said, I got my information from a games developer at Warhammer World. He was vague, but gave the clear impression that Hive Tyrants (and he did also mention the swarmlord) would get more wounds. He actually gave the impression they were still testing different options at that point, though with a release date just weeks away that seems unlikely. I was surprised to see the book up for preorder so soon.
It's not wishlisting because I don't play tyrannids and haven't played against them in 8th. I don't really care either way, though I would like to see more balance between the armies and especially for my Tau!
In fact I don't think I saw an army of either Nids or Tau at the heat - which was mostly full of armies that have codices already.
Sounds like they don't really understand the character rules. Hive tyrants need 1 less wound to be more survivable, not more wounds.
Sounds like you are asking for something that doesn’t make sense to the fluff though. Nearly all armies in 40k know to target the hive tyrant (synapse etc) so it makes total sense they should be able to be targeted at free will.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Sounds like you are asking for something that doesn’t make sense to the fluff though. Nearly all armies in 40k know to target the hive tyrant (synapse etc) so it makes total sense they should be able to be targeted at free will.
Plus they are big frigging monsters towering over small guys so not even hard to not notice.
Being able to target them makes sense but does make them exceedingly vulnerable especially seeing how vital they are. Definitely need survivability boost. 1 less wound would be great boost but makes least sense. GW goes for more wounds. Enough? Remains to be seen.
Personally, I'd love if they did something with Hive Guard, which are supposed to be the bodyguard bugs.
Maybe you simply cannot target" Characters of up to 15 or 20 wounds, if they are within 6" of Hive Guard (unless they are the closest unit), allowing you some 1st turn backfield protection, while preventing Hive Tyrants from hiding behind a ripper swarm and possibly tying a Flyrant to a slow footslogging unit.
Or they might be able to tank wounds Deathshroud/Tau-Drone style.
Wonderwolf wrote: Personally, I'd love if they did something with Hive Guard, which are supposed to be the bodyguard bugs.
Maybe you simply cannot target" Characters of up to 15 or 20 wounds, if they are within 6" of Hive Guard (unless they are the closest unit), allowing you some 1st turn backfield protection, while preventing Hive Tyrants from hiding behind a ripper swarm and possibly tying a Flyrant to a slow footslogging unit.
Or they might be able to tank wounds Deathshroud/Tau-Drone style.
Etc...
They already do in the tyrant guard, they intercept wounds for Hive Tyrants on a 2+. Even better, you have to wound the Tyrant, then the guard intercept it.
Wonderwolf wrote: Personally, I'd love if they did something with Hive Guard, which are supposed to be the bodyguard bugs.
Maybe you simply cannot target" Characters of up to 15 or 20 wounds, if they are within 6" of Hive Guard (unless they are the closest unit), allowing you some 1st turn backfield protection, while preventing Hive Tyrants from hiding behind a ripper swarm and possibly tying a Flyrant to a slow footslogging unit.
Or they might be able to tank wounds Deathshroud/Tau-Drone style.
Etc...
They already do in the tyrant guard, they intercept wounds for Hive Tyrants on a 2+. Even better, you have to wound the Tyrant, then the guard intercept it.
Wonderwolf wrote: Personally, I'd love if they did something with Hive Guard, which are supposed to be the bodyguard bugs.
Maybe you simply cannot target" Characters of up to 15 or 20 wounds, if they are within 6" of Hive Guard (unless they are the closest unit), allowing you some 1st turn backfield protection, while preventing Hive Tyrants from hiding behind a ripper swarm and possibly tying a Flyrant to a slow footslogging unit.
Or they might be able to tank wounds Deathshroud/Tau-Drone style.
Etc...
Hive Guard aren't bodyguard bugs. That's Tyrant Guard.
Hive Guard are, for lack of a better description, perimeter defense bugs.
Kind of a cool/different thing would be making it so that they get bonus to their Hit rolls against targets near Objectives that you control/controlled?
Opening Carnis up for different weapons but stealing their ridiculous base strength value was a shame. A Carnifex shouldn't need a powerfist eqvuivalent to punch Russes to scrap metal with ease.
4++ along with either a 5+/6+ FNP would be a nice buff, but if it stayed the same price or gained wounds I would anticipate the amount of Tyrants an army could take to be limited.
Between catalyst and tyrant guard I haven't had a problem with my tyrants dying too quickly. They do die eventually but it soaks up enough firepower to be beneficial overall. But I run two, so maybe that's it.
Probably old kit with specific options and own entry in the codex. Picture sure looks old kit and with seeing how sparse GW has been with new models with recent releases doubtful they would release new screamer killer carnifex out of all things if they released new model for tyranids.
Tyranids may be the only army that will actually gain options thanks to GW's new approach to model kits, as we have so many unused upgrades in those kits.
The index carnifex has two special abilities. Living Battering Ram and Monstrous Brood. That Screamer Killer datasheet has four abilities.
I can still make out Living Battering Ram and Monstrous Brood. I'm pretty sure the next one says 'Spore Cysts'. It appears to make enemies subtract 1 from ranged weapons targeting it. I think it also says it doesn't stack with venomthropes Shrouding Spores ability.
I can't quite make out the 4th abilities name though. I can read the top line of text in it though, which says 'Your opponent must add 1 to any...', I think the next line says Morale tests. Which I guess fits the fluff for a gigantic screaming monster.
Ooh, and Living Battering Ram has an extra sentence of text, which I'm pretty sure says to add 1 to hit rolls on the turn it charges.
Arson Fire wrote: The index carnifex has two special abilities. Living Battering Ram and Monstrous Brood.
That Screamer Killer datasheet has four abilities.
I can still make out Living Battering Ram and Monstrous Brood. I'm pretty sure the next one says 'Spore Cysts', and I can make out a page reference which is probably for the spore mines it generates.
EDIT: Actually on closer inspection the spore cysts ability is something to do with subtracting 1 from enemy ranged weapons. The page reference is probably to say it doesn't stack with venomthropes.
I can't quite make out the 4th abilities name though. I can read the top line of text in it though, which says 'Your opponent must add 1 to any...', I think the next line says Morale tests. Which I guess fits the fluff for a gigantic screaming monster.
My take on it is:
Living Battering Ram has an extra line that seems to add +1 on to hit rolls in the Fight phase in the turn it charges.
The Spore Cysts rule gives -1 to hit on ranged attacks, also looks to have a reference to a 'Shrouding Spores' rule on a different page (probably so they don't stack). That implies Venomthropes work on monsters now.
The final ability looks like a +1 to enemy morale tests.
And I'm loving the fact that the Screamer Killer is getting it's own Sheet. They also mentioned the thornback as an anti-infantry killer. The original Thornback just had higher combat resolution (hence, winning through sweep advance) so I wonder how they translate it here.
Also the enhanced senses is epic. We might see the dakkafex again.
And interesting rule would be if the screamer killer targets something with it's shooting attack, the target gets -1 to hit next turn. I doubt that is it though.
Hmm, this is shaping up in a way I just might pick this codex up - I'd been trying to stick to the index + card sets, but if there's more than just these two variants (say, other 'Nid variants or some sort of return of the mutation system)- and Living Battering Ram gets +1 on the charge, I might just pick the book up.
Tyran wrote: Tyranids may be the only army that will actually gain options thanks to GW's new approach to model kits, as we have so many unused upgrades in those kits.
Well, yes. "Model=Rules" ? H.B.M.C. whats your verdict on this?
Spore Cycts : -1 to hit vs ranged attacks. Does not stack with the Shrouding Spore ability.
Can't read the name of the last ability but it's : +1 to enemy morale checks within 6"? of one or more Screamers
Spore Cyst! Spore Cyst! Spore Cyst!
Spore Cyst! Spore Cyst! Spore Cyst!
Spore Cyst! Spore Cyst! Spore Cyst!
Anyway... would the spore cyst be the holes in the carapace we see in the picture? I would asume one has nothing, and the once with hole and the one with spikes has rules on them?
Spore Cysts was a carnifex upgrade back in 4th edition, which was represented by that carapace piece.
Back then it allowed the carnifex to produce spore mines. Now it seems to be a venomthropey shrouding thing.
Here's a photo from the 4th edition codex showing the carnifex carapace and head upgrades.
Spoiler:
Heh heh, one of the issues with the 4th edition codex was that you could put multiple of those head upgrades on a single carnifex. I have a horrendous frankenhead somewhere where I chopped up about 5 heads to fit all the possible upgrades onto one.
Probably, like all GW does, of every 10 biomorph options only 1-2 will be competitive, but if they achieve to make the 20-30% of all those options viable, Tiranids will gain a TON of personality and flexibility.
Dynas wrote: We only have 3 right now and most factions have about a half dozen or more.
As far as warlord traits I can see them doing something specific to the hive fleets much like they did with the craftworlds.
Also something like an Anti Aircraft gun that is more widely available would be nice.
Cough AdMech, Dark Eldar
Probably a set of 6 generic warlord traits and some hive fleet specific ones.
AA, I'd like to see a Biovore/Pyrovore plastic kit, with some AA spores for the biovore.
I'd rather not have more stupid unique characters to have to act as crutches to hold up a poorly written codex. I'd rather a strong codex with no more unique characters added. Honestly, Tyranids shouldn't even have unique characters to begin with.
Also... anti-air Spore Mines? Spore Mines and Mucolid Spores already have the Fly keyword. They can hit flyers just fine.
Carnikang wrote: *looks at three nonmagnatized Carnis, only one screamerkiller*
Well, need to buy more Carnifexes.
Thats funny. My 6 fexes are non-magnetised and at the start of 8th I said "feth it" because I was sick of switching their load outs every edition so I just decided to give them all screamer killer options because they were my favorite bug. Two have claws though.
I look forward to deploying my 4 screamer killers. Depending on their points cost.
I am so happy to see all the Carnifex options having rules again. I have 4 fully magnetized Carnifexes. 2 older metal ones also magnetized and 1 2ed OG Screamer Killer i am so exited to field them all
i really hope the hive fleet rules are like the CWE ones. and i would like to see a return of the "endless swarm" maybe in form of a stratagem.
Excited and very optimistic. I think the core of Index Nids isn't bad - the troops are generally solid. If they go back to touch up some of our HQ's and monsters, Im hopeful we'll have a solid book.
rollawaythestone wrote: Excited and very optimistic. I think the core of Index Nids isn't bad - the troops are generally solid. If they go back to touch up some of our HQ's and monsters, Im hopeful we'll have a solid book.
Even just good stratagems and a few new toys could potentially fix everything. I think that is generally their balancing lever this edition.
The stats of the screamer killer and the rule?
What are our army wide rules, and are they hive fleet spesific?
Do get get -1 to hit over 12?
Can we sett up 9" away before the start?
How many points are carnifexes?
How many points are warriors?
How many points are tyranofexes?
Does the swarmlord drop in price?
Does the swarmlord drop down to 9 wounds? (looking at you primarchs)
Does the biovore sporemine movement denial stil work?
Binabik15 wrote: There's an OG screamer killer in that picture, of COURSE things will be hurt. S10 all day, every day.
I hope my airbrush compressor can be repaired (from the repair) and I can find a way to paint a disgustingly bright green like the Monster Energy logo. If someone knows a recipe please send me a link.
Then I could batch paint my few Nids in time for the Codex and maybe gift them to my brother for christmas.
Bright yellow (Flash Gits iirc) with a coat of green wash.
A late thank you from me. I just bought Flash Gits and the greener wash and the green glaze. I should've gone to the local game store instead of the GW in a different city for more , but I had hope that my webstore exclusive Sgt. Harker was waiting for me - a hope that was brutally dashed*. Still agonising over the black part of the models. Glossy black, black with silcer edge highlights, black with some fleshy highlights...what's creepier?!
*They had an awesome display featuring Steel Legion and Knights, though. Why do Death Guard, Guard snd Nids have to be so awesome and close together I work 60 hour weeks, I have no capacity for all this stuff. And Necromunda next...sigh.
Binabik15 wrote: There's an OG screamer killer in that picture, of COURSE things will be hurt. S10 all day, every day.
I hope my airbrush compressor can be repaired (from the repair) and I can find a way to paint a disgustingly bright green like the Monster Energy logo. If someone knows a recipe please send me a link.
Then I could batch paint my few Nids in time for the Codex and maybe gift them to my brother for christmas.
Bright yellow (Flash Gits iirc) with a coat of green wash.
A late thank you from me. I just bought Flash Gits and the greener wash and the green glaze. I should've gone to the local game store instead of the GW in a different city for more , but I had hope that my webstore exclusive Sgt. Harker was waiting for me - a hope that was brutally dashed*. Still agonising over the black part of the models. Glossy black, black with silcer edge highlights, black with some fleshy highlights...what's creepier?!
*They had an awesome display featuring Steel Legion and Knights, though. Why do Death Guard, Guard snd Nids have to be so awesome and close together I work 60 hour weeks, I have no capacity for all this stuff. And Necromunda next...sigh.
Depends on what kind of black you're going for. If you want a glossy beetle black, painting them a solid black, then after varnishing going back and painting over the black with the blue gemstone paint gives a cool glossy sheen to it.
not sure if this is allowed. but i guess since im just a fresh ripper either nobody will care or i'll just get removed. so here goes nothing.
our hive tyrant is now t7, 12W. wings will have deepstrike. has a base 4++. down one attack. didnt manage to see the pointage or the wargear options. no idea if monstrous rending claws are still a thing.
carnifex are t7 as well. slight cost reduction. didnt get to see anything else.
maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++
"i roughly remember 2 more things
1 is a stratagem tied to a fleet whose name i cant remember.
start of psychic phase, choose one enemy psyker (cant remember if there's a range or if its from one of our own psykers). Targeted enemy psyker uses only 1 dice to roll his spells
and a warlord trait: if an enemy psyker within x inches (cant remember the range) fails his cast he suffers d3 mortal wounds. i'm sure i missed something else here. my memory sucks ass."
If this is true (and part of me hopes it is)building for cp to specifically gimp other psykers could be a legitimate strat now for Tyranids. Shadow in the warp becomes nasty when you enemy is casting on one dice and it's near your warlord. Depends on the ranges though. That's a bit big.
""Maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++..""
If his power is a d3 normally and on a 6 he is a 3 than not to shabby. Also getting a 4++ is decent. The cost will be a big factor in if he is use able to good. His a number of attacks is low so will have to see.
With the fex t7 it helps and if the other rumor is try that he can get a native -1 to hit he could be a very good option. even a small price drop will make him a better option.
Makes me want to know the Toxacrine is now.
Monday can't come to soon for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wounding on 5's for str 6 is helpful but is not going to help vs lascanons and the like. Deepstrike and a base 4++ helps. I hoping Tyrants get some sort of buff. A -1 to shooting would help. Hope the Hive fleet trait is -1 to hit. it would help a lot for tyrants.
They stratagem and warlord trait could be very good at gimping a key power like quiken or warp time. Seams like a good combo to have.
Davor wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: Saw this on The Tyranid Hive from poster Seeg.
"chapter tactics"
behemoth: reroll failed charges
Kraken: can charge after falling back
Gorgon: reroll 1s to hit for fight phase
jormungandr: always have cover bonus (i'm not sure if i read this right)
hydra: reroll misses against units with less models during fight phase
kronos: reroll 1s to hit for shooting, IF the unit doesnt move
Leviathan: looks to be the same as salamander tactic but i'm not 100% sure
Neurothrope is now HQ, a character and no longer part of a zoanthrope unit. zoanthropes within 6" of a neurothrope reroll 1s for psychic tests. the spirit leech thing now only heals 1 wound for a zoanthrope unit withint 6"
here's the bit lots and lots of people will go nuts about
there are now 3 seperate carnifex entries. 1.) Carnifex 2.) Screamer killer 3.) Thornback
carnifex including 2x monstrous scything talons clock in total at 83 pts.. the 2 pairs of monstrous scything talons for carnifexes are 15 pts, 1 pair is 14 pts. yes.. i know. dont ask me why.
there are individual upgrades for basic carnifexes. +1BS, +1 attack on the charge, -1 to hit from enemy shooting. on the charge carnifexes and screamer killers now get +1 WS on top of the current battering ram rule
screamer killers come stock with "bio plasmic scream" which is 0 points, 12" assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. 90 pts in total
dont have much info on the thornback other than at the end of combat roll d6 for each enemy unit in combat with it. on 6 deal 1 mortal wound
shadowfinder wrote: ""Maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++..""
If his power is a d3 normally and on a 6 he is a 3 than not to shabby. Also getting a 4++ is decent. The cost will be a big factor in if he is use able to good. His a number of attacks is low so will have to see.
With the fex t7 it helps and if the other rumor is try that he can get a native -1 to hit he could be a very good option. even a small price drop will make him a better option.
Makes me want to know the Toxacrine is now.
Monday can't come to soon for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wounding on 5's for str 6 is helpful but is not going to help vs lascanons and the like. Deepstrike and a base 4++ helps. I hoping Tyrants get some sort of buff. A -1 to shooting would help. Hope the Hive fleet trait is -1 to hit. it would help a lot for tyrants.
They stratagem and warlord trait could be very good at gimping a key power like quiken or warp time. Seams like a good combo to have.
Thanks for the rumors.
The changes to the wounds and the invul save already increase by 60% the number of lascannon shots needed to take down a tyrant, i wouldn't ask much more than that. A tyrant under catalyst requires the full firepower of 2000 points of IG gunline to go down, which isn't half bad for a 200 point model.
Psychic scream, WC5, Targets nearest enemy within 18" does d3 mortal wounds. if the target is a psyker, also roll 2d6. if the value is higher than the enemy psyker's leadership, the enemy psyker loses 1 spell at random
paroxysm WC5, target enemy unit within 12" of the psyker fights last. (there's a whole big ass block of text here talking about exceptions and what not)
*cant remember the name* target unit within 36" of the psyker essentially gains synapse
here's a bunch of random (please do not swear)
old one is is now 9 wounds. 200 pts. hits of 6 generate one additional attack. can be equipped with a scything talons relic that +1s ap-3, 3dmg, +1 attack. uses behemoth warlord trait
swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait
hivefleet gorgon warlord trait: enemy units within 3" of the warlord at the end of the turn take 1 mortal wound each on a 4plus
hivefleet behemoth warlord trait: on 6's to wound he deals an additional damage
hivefleet leviathan warlord trait: after deployment but before start of game, redeploy your warlord
tyrannocyte is now 100 pts. 5pts for each deathspitter.
hivefleet kronos stratagem: 2cp, when an enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell, make it use only 1 dice to roll
hivefleet behemoth stratagem: 2cp, choose on unit. roll a d6 for each charging model. for each 6 deal 1 mortal wound to the enemy unit it charged. for monsters its on a roll of 2+
2cp stratagem: choose one unit. at the end of the shooting phase it shoots again. (cannot target monsters)
maleceptors total pointage including wargear is 172. T7, 12W
tyranofex is 185 pts.
rupture cannon is 47 or 49.
rupture cannon profile is heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage. thats all. no more funky "if it hits both..blablabla"
exocrine with all wargear is 210 or something like that. minor points decrease
venomthropes and zoans are still fielded as units of 3
venomthropes when in grp of 3 also affect monsters. when in a grp of 6, the aura becomes 6".
the carnifex biomorpth that gives -1 to hit to enemy shooters does not stack with venomthrope. said biomorph is 10 pts.
genestealers remain the same. but have an option of getting +1 armour but they lose swift and deadly. (wtfGW)
there is a relic for any character that gives either +1S, +1A or +1T during fight phase. roll dice to see which buff
haruspex is something around 220 pts with wargear.
Theres a few other things hes mentioned in smaller psots answering specific questions but I'm on a phone and can't be arsed.
Re posting from Tyranid Hive - news by Seeg:
hive tyrants can still take MRC
warp blast is the same except at a unit of 6 it deals d3+3 instead of d3+d3
neurothrope is cheap as balls. i want to say 45 but i'm not 100% certain.
the jormungandr stratagem is one giant cluster of weird ass sounding things. to give you an idea. before deployment you choose a unit(not monster) to deepstrike. it can deepstrike per normal rules but only from a 'tunnel'. then they go on to talk about what a 'tunnel' is. ravener, trygon and....one more thing... i cant remember... makes 'tunnels'
didnt manage to see the tyrannocyte transport rules. sorry
genestealers are still 12pts in total. 10 pts for body, 2 pts for rending claws
Automatically Appended Next Post: exocrine and T-fex still get to fire twice if they stay still
for the carnifex biomorphs:
-1 to hit from enemy shooting biomorph is 10 pts
+1 attack on the charge is 8 pts
+1 BS is 10 points
doom of malantai was mentioned.......... in the fluff only so was the parasite
synapse is 12", tyrants synapse is 18"
no changes to mawlocs at all. same weapons. same statline. same special rules. same pointage.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
I really hope that genestealers getting +1 armor biomorph means everything is getting that +1 armor biomorph. I would love to get some 2+ tyrants, warriors, and carnifex. It would make a huge difference.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
But it's more fun to hear reliable rumours rather than wishlisting.
On one hand you have rumour mongers that tell you accurate stuff year(s) ahead. On the other hand you have guys that invent up stuff for clickbaits. Guess whose rumours I find more fun to read.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
But it's more fun to hear reliable rumours rather than wishlisting.
On one hand you have rumour mongers that tell you accurate stuff year(s) ahead. On the other hand you have guys that invent up stuff for clickbaits. Guess whose rumours I find more fun to read.
To be honest we are gonna know if hes telling the truth or no in ... less than a week. I see no point in him lying. And if he is lying isn't like we are gonna be deceived for more than 3-4 days.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
Because I HATE wasting my time reading false garbage.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
Because I HATE wasting my time reading false garbage.
Then the moment it doesn't link to a GW source don't read it. Then everything you read is real.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
But it's more fun to hear reliable rumours rather than wishlisting.
On one hand you have rumour mongers that tell you accurate stuff year(s) ahead. On the other hand you have guys that invent up stuff for clickbaits. Guess whose rumours I find more fun to read.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
Because I HATE wasting my time reading false garbage.
All I can say, is if what I saw is true, everything about the Hive Tyrant is true. The other stuff, I believe because nothing on the Hive Tyrant is false.
Also for points wise, while I don't know how many points it costs, it is one power point cheaper than it is in the index and if taking the wings, add two points. So it seems to be cheaper and more expensive at least power points wise.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
Because I HATE wasting my time reading false garbage.
Then the moment it doesn't link to a GW source don't read it. Then everything you read is real.
We have reliable rumor mongers though. So when a new one pops up where I don't recognize the name, I want to know if they're reliable.
- Do we have any idea about the +1 to armor save biomorph on anything but Genestealers? Warriors? Carnifex? Tyrants? (These are all kits that came with extra armor plates)
- Are shrikes in the codex (doubt it :( )
- Are Carnifexes the only units with the bunch of adaptability biomorphs or do more of rank and file get some too? (Warriors again?)
- Any buffs/points decreases for hormagaunts/termagants?
- Any changes to Tervigons?
- Is there a strategem to respawn /replenish units?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
Because I HATE wasting my time reading false garbage.
Then the moment it doesn't link to a GW source don't read it. Then everything you read is real.
We have reliable rumor mongers though. So when a new one pops up where I don't recognize the name, I want to know if they're reliable.
Even the reliable ones have been wrong before.
Nid dex was supposed to be last novemeber with at least 3 new kits. That rumor was from a reliable source.
Oh god these rumours are making me excited. 4++ and T7 on Tyrants? Yes please! Neurothrope's being separate units and characters sounds awesome - and even the Maleceptor sounds way more useable.
The Hive Fleet traits sound good, but the psychic powers (other than Psychic Scream) sound meh, although on the whole, Tyranid powers are pretty good.
Galas wrote: To be honest we are gonna know if hes telling the truth or no in ... less than a week. I see no point in him lying. And if he is lying isn't like we are gonna be deceived for more than 3-4 days.
You haven't seen guys making crap up with product coming soon? You haven't been following GW rumours that long then. Standard practice.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
Because I HATE wasting my time reading false garbage.
These Hive Fleet Adaptations will cover the most well known of the Tyranid Hive Fleets – Behemoth, Kraken and Leviathan – as well as developing the background for four more – Gorgon, Jormungandr, Hydra and Kronos. All the adaptions have been designed to be fun, thematic, and powerful; Hydra, for example, can re-roll hits in close combat against units they outnumber (which, with Tyranids, shouldn’t be too tricky!).
So it is confirmed, that guy was legit, because Kronos is a totally random name (It isn't a monster like the others with 0 fluff) that nobody could have guessed at random.
And they have already confirmed that he was right about the Hydra one.
Galas wrote: So it is confirmed, that guy was legit, because Kronos is a totally random name (It isn't a monster like the others with 0 fluff) that nobody could have guessed at random.
And they have already confirmed that he was right about the Hydra one.
Cronos (Kronos/Cronus) was a Titan in Greek mythology so is a monster of sorts.
Galas wrote: So it is confirmed, that guy was legit, because Kronos is a totally random name (It isn't a monster like the others with 0 fluff) that nobody could have guessed at random.
And they have already confirmed that he was right about the Hydra one.
Cronos (Kronos/Cronus) was a Titan in Greek mythology so is a monster of sorts.
He did ate his babies but I don't think he is the same kind of Monster they use to name Tyranids Hive Fleets.
Binabik15 wrote: There's an OG screamer killer in that picture, of COURSE things will be hurt. S10 all day, every day.
I hope my airbrush compressor can be repaired (from the repair) and I can find a way to paint a disgustingly bright green like the Monster Energy logo. If someone knows a recipe please send me a link.
Then I could batch paint my few Nids in time for the Codex and maybe gift them to my brother for christmas.
Bright yellow (Flash Gits iirc) with a coat of green wash.
A late thank you from me. I just bought Flash Gits and the greener wash and the green glaze. I should've gone to the local game store instead of the GW in a different city for more , but I had hope that my webstore exclusive Sgt. Harker was waiting for me - a hope that was brutally dashed*. Still agonising over the black part of the models. Glossy black, black with silcer edge highlights, black with some fleshy highlights...what's creepier?!
*They had an awesome display featuring Steel Legion and Knights, though. Why do Death Guard, Guard snd Nids have to be so awesome and close together I work 60 hour weeks, I have no capacity for all this stuff. And Necromunda next...sigh.
Depends on what kind of black you're going for. If you want a glossy beetle black, painting them a solid black, then after varnishing going back and painting over the black with the blue gemstone paint gives a cool glossy sheen to it.
I don't know yet what I want
Are those rumoured points good or bad (I don't have the index).
Also on thehivemind, i thought a mod said he gave them proof in the form of pics but didnt want proof to hit him back in the form of pics on the internet.
Chronos is a greek titan. (Change the K for a Ch.) The titans where the enemies of the gods. During the middel ages Chrono was assosiated with time. For those of you who saw Hercules, the Titans are what hades releases from the prison. In Titan Quest chronos was the final boss in the exspansion. In the name Chrono Trigger the name is used for the titular character.
Anyway... so no global -1 to hit.
behemoth: reroll failed charges
probably good with swarm armies or genstealers.
Kraken: can charge after falling back
Ok to break some chaff. Fall back and charge again. Gargoyles would be nice with this.
Gorgon: reroll 1s to hit for fight phase
Good for mellee armies, but probably not the best.
jormungandr: always have cover bonus (i'm not sure if i read this right)
If they always have cover bonus, this is very very good. Genestealers become 4+ 5++. Smaller griblits gets 5+. Carnifexes get 2+.
hydra: reroll misses against units with less models during fight phase
Only good in swarms. Good with genestealers. Good if you multi charge genestealers. Swarmlord slingshot will be good with this.
kronos: reroll 1s to hit for shooting, IF the unit doesnt move
Good for hive guards.
Leviathan: looks to be the same as salamander tactic but i'm not 100% sure
If this is re-roll 1 for shooting or mellee, would this make the big gun tyranofex good? If both hit they get a better profile. Would make tervigon much better in combat. Very good with 1 model units.
Is -1 to hit carnifexes worth it for 10 points? Can somebody mathhammer this? I am not sure.
I want to know, how are warriors? Any cost reduction? Are shrikes there? How much is the heavy venom cannon?
These Hive Fleet Adaptations will cover the most well known of the Tyranid Hive Fleets – Behemoth, Kraken and Leviathan – as well as developing the background for four more – Gorgon, Jormungandr, Hydra and Kronos. All the adaptions have been designed to be fun, thematic, and powerful; Hydra, for example, can re-roll hits in close combat against units they outnumber (which, with Tyranids, shouldn’t be too tricky!).
Any bets which 7 from the master list of chapter tactics Nids get?
If Jormungder data is true I think thats going to be my fleet depending on the actual wording for some of the rules.
Giving an army wide +1 save, a stratgem to deepsrike things that could not normally deepstrike or get other units to accompany Ravenors like it's a trygon tunnel (gotta wait for what exactly this is) could bea mssive first turn threat overload, along with the changes to some of the other units...
Lance845 wrote: If Jormungder data is true I think thats going to be my fleet depending on the actual wording for some of the rules.
Giving an army wide +1 save, a stratgem to deepsrike things that could not normally deepstrike or get other units to accompany Ravenors like it's a trygon tunnel (gotta wait for what exactly this is) could bea mssive first turn threat overload, along with the changes to some of the other units...
Mother of god.
It won't be a blanket +1 save, it'll be like the lictor save where you get an additional +1 while in cover.
Lance845 wrote: If Jormungder data is true I think thats going to be my fleet depending on the actual wording for some of the rules.
Giving an army wide +1 save, a stratgem to deepsrike things that could not normally deepstrike or get other units to accompany Ravenors like it's a trygon tunnel (gotta wait for what exactly this is) could bea mssive first turn threat overload, along with the changes to some of the other units...
Mother of god.
It won't be a blanket +1 save, it'll be like the lictor save where you get an additional +1 while in cover.
Lance845 wrote: If Jormungder data is true I think thats going to be my fleet depending on the actual wording for some of the rules.
Giving an army wide +1 save, a stratgem to deepsrike things that could not normally deepstrike or get other units to accompany Ravenors like it's a trygon tunnel (gotta wait for what exactly this is) could bea mssive first turn threat overload, along with the changes to some of the other units...
Mother of god.
It won't be a blanket +1 save, it'll be like the lictor save where you get an additional +1 while in cover.
We have no factual information either way.
We have a single rumor source that seems to be pretty on point with other people confirming his stuff (which is more or less meaningless admittedly) but he did know the name of Kronus which is quite a coincidence otherwise.
Don't forget that with pre-orders in a week and release in two weeks chances are that distributors are already getting access to stock and stores will soon be getting theirs as well (assuming GW doesn't bank on shipping everything in a week).
So rumours are going to start appearing everywhere as people get a sneak glance into the contents (esp any stores that keep "store copies" and so will break open one edition for the store/display copy
Warhammer Community says they will be reporting later on this week - but Hydra is re-roll hits in close combat against units they outnumber as leaked. So I reckon the rumours are probably correct.
Tyel wrote: Warhammer Community says they will be reporting later on this week - but Hydra is re-roll hits in close combat against units they outnumber as leaked. So I reckon the rumours are probably correct.
Seems like with the Eldar rumors and the main gist of the tactic was done but the exact wording is inaccurate.
PhillyT wrote: Is the rumor a +1 to AS or a +1 to cover save?
I can totally buy the idea of a +1 cover save. A flat increase to AS is a totally different animal.
There are no cover saves any more. The wording is unknown but the rumor was army wide being in terrain. Which is a +1 to save. So whats the actual difference besides not being able to be in terrain twice (something we never got with the models that need it most because fitting 30 models in terrain is impossible).
The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
Forcing people to close into melee to negate the bonus from cover, and making them want to be within 12" to not be penalized with shooting means they will want melee deterrent units to keep from losing shoot elements.
Everyone talks about how this edition is shootier than most, then complain about the army bonuses that make shooting less effective.
Add something to punch things in the face or at least shoot point blank. Variety in army composition will give you a better chance at victory, as the codexes come out.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
Not all flamer weapons ignore cover.
Acxtually, weapons that flat out ignore cover benefits (as opposed to a -1 AP modifier) are very few and far between, the Nids Impaler Cannon being the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
This trait would be basically permenant Shroud Psalm for Nids.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
Not all flamer weapons ignore cover.
You're right, I should've said 'certain flamer weapons', I did not mean to suggest that flamer type weapons universally ignore cover.
Not stepping on the news and rumors thread, just getting the tactics discussion started. Wanted to let people know that this will be updated at lest daily over the next week as the GW articles come out. I got some stuff on there from the Tyranid Hive that I didn't see here yet.
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
Good on them, they need some relevance. Maybe if Nids are nasty enough they'll be more common in the circuit?
Hah.
But from all the tidbits over on the Hive, I can see playing nids to be once again quite fulfilling. Time to start talking to my crew about some narrative campaigns.
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
Hard to beat Ultramarines trait of "Roboute Guiliman" Ignoring cover doesn't do much compared to rerolling everything. Cover doesn't really matter except on the bugs with good nature armor, which lascannons will still handle decently.
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
Hard to beat Ultramarines trait of "Roboute Guiliman" Ignoring cover doesn't do much compared to rerolling everything. Cover doesn't really matter except on the bugs with good nature armor, which lascannons will still handle decently.
It turns the 6+ saves into 5+ saves. Since most anti horde guns are either ap-0 or ap -1 it either gives our little horde units a 1/3rd chance to save or lets us keep our save, bad as it is. But it also takes a carnifexes 3+ and makes it a 2+. Warriors go from 3+ to 2+.
The two people with the Codex over at The Tyranid Hive asked me to clarify Jormungandr. The Warlord trait has a decent amount of caveats:
A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can Fly) always has the benefit of cover for the purpose of shooting attacks. If the unit advances or charges, however, it loses the benefits of this adaptation until the start of your next movement phase.
Sorry people got really excited before it was clarified. Still good, but not as good. Pretty much meant for gunlines so you don't have to find cover.
JesseS wrote: The two people with the Codex over at The Tyranid Hive asked me to clarify Jormungandr. The Warlord trait has a decent amount of caveats:
A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can Fly) always has the benefit of cover for the purpose of shooting attacks. If the unit advances or charges, however, it loses the benefits of this adaptation until the start of your next movement phase.
Sorry people got really excited before it was clarified. Still good, but not as good. Pretty much meant for gunlines so you don't have to find cover.
Ive been watching the thread over there throughout the day. Just saw your guys discussion over there and updated it in my tactica thread. Hope you guys don't mind me copy pasting to keep the guys over here informed of the latest and greatest rumor dump since 8th dropped.
Synapse is now 12" base, 18" for HTs IB indeed has a -1 to hit Malus for shooting. BUT only if you aim at something that isn't the closest unit
Likewise it's -2 charge distance(I think) if you attempt to charge something that isn't the closest unit
Hive Fleet traits (apply to everything)
* complete*
behemoth: reroll failed charges
Kraken: can charge after falling back
Gorgon: reroll 1s to hit for fight phase
jormungandr: always have cover bonus (i'm not sure if i read this right)
hydra: reroll misses against units with less models during fight phase
kronos: reroll 1s to hit for shooting, IF the unit doesnt move
Leviathan: looks to be the same as salamander tactic but i'm not 100% sure
Psychic Powers
* missing at least 3 powers*
Psychic scream, WC5, Targets nearest enemy within 18" does d3 mortal wounds. if the target is a psyker, also roll 2d6. if the value is higher than the enemy psyker's leadership, the enemy psyker loses 1 spell at random
paroxysm WC5, target enemy unit within 12" of the psyker fights last. (there's a whole big ass block of text here talking about exceptions and what not)
*cant remember the name* target unit within 36" of the psyker essentially gains synapse
warp blast is the same except at a unit of 6 it deals d3+3 instead of d3+d3
Warlord Traits
1) First battle turn, before first turn, you can remove your warlord and set them up again.
2) Never suffer any hit roll penalties. Overwatch still on 6s.
3) Add 6" synapse
4) WL kill a character in fight, friendly hive unit in 3" , get to move as per normal again at end of phase.
5) Before battle start, choose opponent unit. WL reroll all failed hit rolls against that all units with the same dataslate. (etc. All obliterator squads)
6) After end of any phase, wlt take a wound, remaining of battle, all dmg to wl -1
Behemoth: WOund roll of 6 in fight phase. that attack +1 dmg Kraken: 1 friendly kraken unit within 6 of wlt, can fight first in fight phase even without charging
Leviathan : 1 per battle round. you can reroll a single hit/wound/dmg /advance charge or saving throw for the wl.
Gorgon: end of fight phase. roll d6 for every enemy within 1" of warlord. on 4+, that unit suffer a MW.
Jormungandr: Enemy unit dont gain bonus to saving throw for being in cover by attacks from wl, or friendly Jormungandr units within 3 of wl.
Hydra: Beginning of each of your turn, roll a dice for each wound WL suffered, on a 6, heal.
Kronos: Enemy psyker fail a psychic test within 18 of your wl, they suffer D3 MW
Stratagems
1cp the enemy below (jormungandr)
use strat when jor inf set up, put it undergorund. whenever you set up raveners mawloc trygon or trygon prime. any no of its unit can be set up within the tunnels, 3 inch from burrowing unit ,9 inch away enemy.
1cp brute force (behemoth)
use when benemoth unit complete charge . roll d6 for each behemoth charging model within 1inch of enemy. each roll of 6, 1 MW on enemy unit. 2+ for a behemoth monster charging
(30 man gant charge in, roll d6 for all, on a 6 chuck a mw)
1cp war on all fronts (leviathan)
fight phase. select enemy within 1inch of 1 flying and 1 nonflying leviathan unit. can reroll hits & wound rolls of 1 for levi attacks against the enemy unit
1cp Against Shadow (Kronos)
enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell within 24 inch of kronos unit. that psyker can only use 1 dice for his psyk test.
1cp Hypertoxicity (Gorgon)
fight phase. choose gorgon wiht toxin sac, the biomorph do 1 additional dmg on wounds roll of 5+ instead of 6
2cp Endless Swarm
Select a destroyed unit of gants, horms, garg or any hydra inf unit that has been completely destroyted. Add an identical unit to your army and set it up as reinforcement wholly 6inch of any board edge , more than 9 inch from enemy
1cp Opportunistic Advance
Use in move phase for advancing Kraken unit (noFly units), can double number you roll for advance and add to the move characteristic
3cp Call the Brood
end of move. add a new unit of up to 5 genestealers, wholly within 6 of a brood or infestation node but more than 9 from enemy
3Cp adrenaline surge
end of fight phase. select a nid unit from army, can immediately fight again
2cp Digestive Denial
After deployment but before turn start. choose a piece of terrain othre than fortifciation.
Units fullywithin or on this piece of terrain do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover.....
lol if anyone piles their whole army onto one big terrain in their deployment.
2cp single minded annihilation
end of shoot phase, choose inf unit, shoot again lol (devil gants/hiveguard lol)
1cp grisly feast
morale phase. select ripper or haru. enenemy within 6 inch must add 1 to morale test
2cp pathogenic slime
shooting phase. select nid mon. increase dmg of its attack by for this phase. lol 2dmg dakka flyrant/exo/tyrannofex
3cp sporefield
after both armies deploy, add up 2 unit of spore mines as reinf, more than 12 inch from enemy
1cp invisible hunter
move phase. lictor within 1 inhc of enemy. that model can fall back shoot and charge.
1cp power of the hive mind
end of psyk phase, choose a nid spyker that casted earlier, can cast 1 additional power
1cp pheromone trail
choose when nid inf set up as reinf/reserve. if got lictor on battlefield, you can set up wholly within 6 inch of lictor and more than 9 from enemy
2cp death frenzy
use when nid char die, it can shoot again as if it were shooting phase, or fight again as if fight phase before its removal
1cp overrun
use when nid unit destroys an unit in fight, and not within 3 inch of enemy. that you unit can forgo consolidation, but move and advance as if movement phase but cannot move within 1inch of enemy model
1cp voracious appetite
fight phase, nid mon or character is chosen to fight.can reroll all failed wounds for that model til end of phase
psk barrage
need 3x3 zoans to shoot a point, all unit within 3 inch of that point rolls. 4+ unit suffer 3d3 mortal
1cp caustic blood
start of fight phase.select nid unit, roll d6 when a model dies, on 6 enemy suffer mw
2cp rapid regen
end of mov, heal d3
1cp scorch bugs
shoot phase
seelect nid, +1 to wound for all feshborer or fleshborer hive attacks
1cp feeder tendrils
when gene lictor toxi venom kills a chara in fight phase, gain d3 cp 1cp implant attack
use aft nid unit fight in fight phase. roll d6 for each wounded enemy model and not slain. 2+ suffer , model suffers a mw
1/3cp bounty of hive fleet
artefact thing
1cp metabolic movement
use in move , after a nid unit as movemed. you can move that unit again includ advance. however roll a d6 for every model, on a 1 , unit gets a MW. cannot shoot or charge that turn.
Relics
*missing most relics*
there is a relic for any character that gives either +1S, +1A or +1T during fight phase. roll dice to see which buff
its a relic venom cannon. same stats as a venom cannon except d6 shots. but if the target is within 12" it auto hits and always wounds on 2+
most of the artefacts are soso. but there is a 30 inch norm crown that negates the effect of IB, but doesn't give you anything else.
Kraken relic: -1 to hit from enemy shooting
Gorgon relic: after being wounded the first time gain 1T for the rest of the game
Reaper of obliterax(bonesword/whip or monstrous bonesword & whip) on 6 to wound do double damage
Units / Wargear
<General>
A lot of weapons cost are slightly cheaper and inbuilt into the base cost of units that only can have them.
i dont have the numbers but there are many reductions in costs for big bug melee and ranged weapons. eg. massive scything are now 10pts. massive scything talons in a pair are cheaper too (cant remember exact number). monstrous scything talons are much cheaper too. carnifex comes stock with tresher scythe which is now zero points and is the same wording as the hive tyrant. which is, it makes its profile attacks, which in the codex is 4, and then also makes the tail attack, which is now 1d3 attacks.
tyrant guard still suck. scything talons are still 0. rending claws are still 2. boneswords are still 4. crushing claws are 12 (stats unchanged)
<points> warriors are still the same. zoanthropes are the same. haruspex has a big one. biovores are the same. the spore mine rules are the same too. hiveguard are either the same or has an inconsequential decrease in points.
Stinger salvos are now 24 inches
Heavy venom canon are now d3 S9 Ap2 3damage
Stranglethorn is 25pts
1x Devourer with brainleech is 7pts. Assault 6
1x deathspitter with maggot is 7pt. Assault 3
Monstrous boneswords are 20pts
Monstrous boneswords with whip are 15pts
our hive tyrant is now t7, 12W. wings will have deepstrike. has a base 4++. down one attack [to 4]. didnt manage to see the pointage or the wargear options. no idea if monstrous rending claws are still a thing.
hive tyrants can still take MRC
Swarmlord does still have hive commander. On 6s to wound he does one additional mortal wound
swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait
old one is is now 9 wounds. 200 pts. hits of 6 generate one additional attack. can be equipped with a scything talons relic that +1s ap-3, 3dmg, +1 attack. uses behemoth warlord trait. No degradation
Neurothrope is now HQ, a character and no longer part of a zoanthrope unit. zoanthropes within 6" of a neurothrope reroll 1s for psychic tests. the spirit leech thing now only heals 1 wound for a zoanthrope unit withint 6"
Neurothropes are 70 points all in
maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++
maleceptors total pointage including wargear is 172. T7, 12W
venomthropes and zoans are still fielded as units of 3
venomthropes when in grp of 3 also affect monsters. when in a grp of 6, the aura becomes 6".
genestealers remain the same. but have an option of getting +1 armour but they lose swift and deadly. (wtfGW)
bs4 got flesh hook as option
New ability: infestion can put 4 nodes in ur own deploy area , if enemy near it , it disappears. you can pop up from any of the 4 nodes as per normal ds/reserve.
Gargoyles gain DS no changes to raveners..
Shrikes are gone
Crone lost 1 base attack but tail weapon is free attack. Tentaclids are 4 shots
Red Terror -1 WS/A
Toxicrene - toxic lash are AP-2
tyrannocyte is now 100 pts. 5pts for each deathspitter. Transport rules unchanged
exocrine with all wargear is 210 or something like that. minor points decrease
tyranofex is 185 pts.
rupture cannon is 47 or 49. rupture cannon profile is heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage. thats all. no more funky "if it hits both..blablabla"
Acid spray 18" 2D6 hits
there are now 3 seperate carnifex entries. 1.) Carnifex 2.) Screamer killer 3.) Thornback
carnifex including 2x monstrous scything talons clock in total at 83 pts.. the 2 pairs of monstrous scything talons for carnifexes are 15 pts, 1 pair is 14 pts. yes.. i know. dont ask me why.
there are individual upgrades for basic carnifexes. +1BS, +1 attack on the charge, -1 to hit from enemy shooting. on the charge carnifexes and screamer killers now get +1 WS on top of the current battering ram rule
screamer killers come stock with "bio plasmic scream" which is 0 points, 12" assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. 90 pts in total
Thornbacks are base 70.
at the end of combat roll d6 for each enemy unit in combat with it. on 6 deal 1 mortal wound
Starts with 2 devourers with brainleech worm
It can swap the devourers with deathspitters with maggots
And a pair of monstrous scything talons
It can swap the claws with a stranglethorn only.
And a chitin biomorph
for the carnifex biomorphs:
-1 to hit from enemy shooting biomorph is 10 pts - does not stack with shrouding spores
+1 attack on the charge is 8 pts
+1 BS is 10 points
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about the chunk been blown off them, you're going to have to blow another 6 or 7 out of them for them to stop. That's what Nids are to me, easy to hurt, painful to stop.
All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
