List of Codex additions and changes from video review (Thanks Niiru)
Phoenix Lords : They have a rule that means they don't break detachment battleforged status. From the sound of it, that applies to all the special characters.
Point Changes Thirty units have points changes, and every one of them is a reduction.
19 Weapons have points changes, 17 of them reductions.
- Shadow Weaver increased by 4 points.
- Vibro Cannon increased by 10 points.
Wraith Knight is the same cost, but the Titanic Ghost Glaive is reduced by 35 points.
Various of the special characters down between 10 and 20 points.
(Points costs are done as + or - compared to index)
- Dire Avengers -2 (Avenger Catapult -2)
- Banshees -3
- Scorpions -4 (Claw -8)
- Spiders -4
- Windriders -2 (Scatter lasers -5)
- Eldrad -30
- Farseer Skyrunner -29 points (interesting) (Also Singing Spears down to 4 points, from 12. So -8)
- Spiritseer -22
- Star Cannon now 15 points (er, seems good?)
- Twin Scatter Laser -13
- Twin Shuriken Cannon -7
- Twin Star Cannon -32
- Ghost Axes -4, Force Shields -2
Stratagems - Webway Strike is Infantry and Bikers only.
- The Move-Shoot-Move Stratagem works for any unit, and it can charge afterwards. So Move-Shoot-Move-Charge.
- Seer Council - If you have a Farseer and a Warlock within 6" of each other, you can add 1 to any Psychic tests. 1CP.
- Serpent Shield - You can immediatley discharge your serpent shield again, so twice in one turn if you did it normally first. 1CP. Seems you can do it every turn on the same wave serpent?
- Feigned Retreat - 2CP. Any infantry or Fly unit in combat. Can fall back, then shoot and charge.
- Tears of Aisha - 2CP. Any wraith construct unit. Immediately regains D3 wounds
- Phantasm - 2CP. After deployment, but before the first turn starts. You can immediately re-deploy 3 units. Odd one, but can mean you can fake out your opponent with false flanking moves.
Warlord Traits He lists the generic warlord traits, but nothing we hadn't seen before. Other than Sniper, which is interesting.
Alaitoc - Nearby Alaitoc units pass morale tests
Bieltan - Unit within 3", can reroll all failed hit rolls when shooting in that phase.
Iyanden - Warlord gets +1 deny the witch, even if they're not a psyker.
Samhain - +3" pile in moves in any direction. +1 attack if they pile in to nearest model.
Ulthwe - At the start of every turn (yours and opponents) roll a D6. On a 6 you gain 1 command point. (Probably the best craftworld-specific warlord trait).
Relics/Unique Wargear: - Phoenix Gem - If this model is slain, roll a D6 for each unit (friend and foe) within 6". For any result of 2+, that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. If any wounds are inflicted, this model is not killed.
There was a wargear option that gives an infantry model a move stat of 12" and the fly keyword.
- Biel-Tan wargear option that lets the bearer reroll any failed psychic test.
- Shift-Shroud - Alaitoc. Enemy units get -1 to hit in the shooting phase (if this stacks with everything else, you could easily get a warlord with like -3 to hit?) Also lets you infiltrate this model, but proper infiltrate so you can pop-out of hiding during any turn you choose.
- There's an Autarch only relic, which says all enemy attacks against him are -1 to hit.
Datasheet changes: - D-Scythes, you roll for each model, not one roll for the whole squad.
- Warp Spiders - If they fall back out of combat using their generator, they can now shoot. And they now have deepstrike.
If you roll 1-1 you lose a model.
- War Walkers - Scout changed to a reserves. Can set up on an enemy's flank, and appear in any turn.
- Wraithlord - T8. +1 attacks too.
- Wraithfighter - It got a points drop, so it got nerfed, right? Well, the D-Cannons it has went from S10 to S12. For some reason.
- Wraithknight - Same, but cheaper Glaive. Heavy wraith cannon went from S10 to S16...
Warhammer Community Changes and additions to all
All Wraithguard and Wraithblades and Wraithlords toughness 6 and 8 respectively.
Spiritseer only 45pts Warlocks now 35pts (deduced from the article).
Hemlock Wraithfighter now -2 to leadership.
Dire Avengers price drop, stated that both Dire Avengers and Avenger Catapults are reduced this means Dire Avengers are now at most 15pts per model (Minimum price drop for both Avenger and Weapon is 1pt so potentially, and likely, less than 15ppm)
Both Scatter lasers and Windriders reduced in points (same deal as Dire Avengers so at least 2ppm cheaper)
Battle focus is now counting the unit as not moved even if moved or advanced, excludes heavy weapons
Rangers are now 12ppm
Spoiler:
Alaitoc Attributes
Spoiler:
I
Saim-hann Attributes
Spoiler:
Biel-Tan Attributes
Spoiler:
Ulthwe Attributes
Spoiler:
Between a considerable cut in points and the vastly expanded Runes of Fate discipline, Eldrad Ulthran makes for the perfect leader for an Ulthwé army
What's wrong with Faeit? He's just a rumors collector like I used to be when I was a mod on Heresy, he is never the source of any rumor but I guess some people don't understand that and cry foul.
Rumor tracker is pretty much pointless for Faeit, it's the same thing as adding you Korlandril to the tracker for posting this rumor (well, it's pretty much confirmed).
Rumor tracker is only good (imo) for people who are actually the source of rumors. Like Atia, hastings or whoever else posts stuff.
As for the Eldar box why oh why didn't they have Iyanden on the box as that's pretty much a Iyanden host?
MadCowCrazy wrote: What's wrong with Faeit?
He's just a rumors collector like I used to be when I was a mod on Heresy, he is never the source of any rumor but I guess some people don't understand that and cry foul.
Rumor tracker is pretty much pointless for Faeit, it's the same thing as adding you Korlandril to the tracker for posting this rumor (well, it's pretty much confirmed).
Rumor tracker is only good (imo) for people who are actually the source of rumors. Like Atia, hastings or whoever else posts stuff.
As for the Eldar box why oh why didn't they have Iyanden on the box as that's pretty much a Iyanden host?
Please everybody don't answer. Start a new thread if we need be. Trust me, you really don't want to know.
Cream Tea wrote: The only thing I have from that box is a Wraithlord. I'll be getting two, I think.
Selling off the War Walkers ofc.
I'll be getting a box or two as well; all I have towards my Iyanden force so far is a Wraithguard unit and Spiritseer, so this box is about perfect for me.
I'd be happy to take any unwanted War Walkers off your hands, for the record.
Much better SC than the current one. Especially for the uninitiated. If you go in to a GW now and see the current box, and then say a Guard or Necron one, you’re going to go for the one with loads of toy soldiers in it. Not the one with the tank and a couple of bikes.
MadCowCrazy wrote: What's wrong with Faeit?
He's just a rumors collector like I used to be when I was a mod on Heresy, he is never the source of any rumor but I guess some people don't understand that and cry foul.
Rumor tracker is pretty much pointless for Faeit, it's the same thing as adding you Korlandril to the tracker for posting this rumor (well, it's pretty much confirmed).
Rumor tracker is only good (imo) for people who are actually the source of rumors. Like Atia, hastings or whoever else posts stuff.
As for the Eldar box why oh why didn't they have Iyanden on the box as that's pretty much a Iyanden host?
Please everybody don't answer. Start a new thread if we need be. Trust me, you really don't want to know.
Spoiler:
I have no problem with him I have been reading his blog for years and even wrote two (crap) articles for him once. It's just last time I made a News and Rumours thread the first comments were immediately attacking him. So my comment was to try and dissuade any of that this time.
I argued exactly the same thing that he collected rumours and wasn't a source. I honestly can't think of a reason to dislike him he's a really nice guy and better than any other news blogs I have seen. (Well I dislike Valrak and his content on there but that's a separate issue). I think maybe people are just jealous that he is so popular, when I did the articles I could see the views each post was getting and the numbers were staggering and that was a few years ago, no idea what views he is getting now but he deserves them.
I also agree if anyone wants to discuss it further make another thread and I am happy to talk on there, just needed to clarify my position.
Back on topic I own two of everything in the box, 3x wraithguard too and I'm going to get a few boxes because more war walkers and the rest I can sell or just add to my collection.
I like the war walker models because the previous model looked so bad in my opinion. I'd prefer the closed canopy of the wasp walkers though just because of the fiddlyness of the pilot.
I'll also update the OP when we get news of any Craftworld traits.
Yeah, a very interesting Start Collecting with the ability to build some variety in how you play it.
Although they aren't the prettiest models, the war walkers having capacity to be long range antitank or shorter range anti infantry. Having the scout move also allows you to push out and screen a 9" bubble from deep strikers/infiltrators/outflankers etc.
Will be very interesting to see if Wraithguard are still Elites. I didn't expect them to become Troops, but that would mean this isn't battleforged out of the box.
If they are now troops then could imagine 3 of these boxes and 3 wave serpents would make an acceptable batallion.
If they are still elite then 3 SC boxes, 3 serpents and 3 troops makes a brigade. << Edit to add this is nonsense... at the moment War Walkers are heavy support, as are Wraithlords. So 3 boxes is 2 spearhead detachments.
Most of their non vehicle range is finecast, the aspect warriors are cats from 1994 and the phoenix lords are from 1992!!! Most of these models are older than me and I'm 24.
No way am I paying £24 for 5 models basically as old as me.
Jes did an amazing job, way ahead of his time, but it's time for an update GW. If you can give DG seven weeks you can give Eldar a few models.
Most of their non vehicle range is finecast, the aspect warriors are cats from 1994 and the phoenix lords are from 1992!!! Most of these models are older than me and I'm 24.
No way am I paying £24 for 5 models basically as old as me.
Jes did an amazing job, way ahead of his time, but it's time for an update GW. If you can give DG seven weeks you can give Eldar a few models.
Not a new army - Primaris and Deathgaurd were new (and Marines) - Guard, Mechancius, Eldar, Tryanids are neither.
Plenty of armies waiting for a an update - Sisters for one need much much more than Eldar.
Its not a bad box - I really don't like the current War Walkers but the rest are nice models.
Why do people feel so entitled to new sculpts? Sure it’d be nice to have some plastic aspect warriors, but the current sculpts are still pretty good, and honestly not that old compared to some other ranges.
It doesn’t mean gw hate Eldar. They’ve clearly just released a bunch of new stuff for Chaos and Space Marines.
They don’t have the capacity to release a new model range every week. It was completely unrealistic to expect new models for Eldar at this point.
I think focusing mostly on new armies is gakky practise. There are so many crappy finecast models in dire need of an ugrade.
They are spitting new armies out meanwhile the old ones are left in the sewer. Eldar, dark eldar, sisters and plenty of others
really need some attention. Tau has some pretty old units too. You pay premium prices for old but ugly models.
Crisis suits are 60 € and they show age really badly.
Surely nobody was expecting any significant number of new models. It's perfectly reasonable to think that they should spend more time converting existing models into plastic than producing new armies entirely (obviously there's some tension here between what's good for the game and what's good for business), but this doesn't seem surprising or somehow anti-Eldar. It was the same for mainline Chaos and Guard and will probably be the same for the next few codices too.
As someone looking to get into eldar I'll at least pick up one and I agree the aspect sculpts are still good they just need to be in plastic but at the same time I'm a weirdo who like Jes's old designs so much my farseer will be his original
The sculpts for the current aspects are great for the most part. The only ones i would like to see updated are Warp Spiders and an upgrade pack to make Shining Spears.
Other than that a new Avatar is desperately needed. I have the Forgeworld one and love it but i still believe it needs some plastic love. The Avatar has always been one of the signature Eldar Units and its a travesty that the sculpt hasn't been updated since 2nd Edition. Give it the attention it deserves and put him back on level footing with the Bloodthirster like he should be.
To me, it's not about the sculpts...short of the god awful scorpions and fire dragons (which were thankfully replaced shortly after release...because they were so damn bad) the entire range is fine sculpt-wise. Even the 90's based ones (of which only the Warp Spiders remain). It's the finecast garbage...and the associated comical cost for buying five or six miniatures in that piss-poor material for $40 which must be a turn off. I run all 2nd ed. metals which are still superb and work fine, but I can see a massive putting off of new players who look at the line and see $35 for five Dire Avengers in plastic or even more for finecast garbage.
There is no cheap way to play Eldar without being into the hobby and knowing how to buy stuff on eBay and salvage it. That being said, most of the oldest sculpts are Jes Goodwin which are damn near timeless, so GW just puts them on the back burner.
I'll be honest, I just dont' see a big Eldar relaunch in the cards any time soon. However, being GW I also don't see random plastic piece-meal kits coming out to support them. Luckily my army is more or less complete, but it's a shame for newer players that the army is one you more or less can't buy/use without awful expense and awful materials.
The new Start Collecting box is a nice way to bolster an army and I'll be getting one or two. A godsend for Iyanden players I'd think. It does, however, mean opposing players will be facing a lot more wraithguard in the future?
Modock wrote: I think focusing mostly on new armies is gakky practise. There are so many crappy finecast models in dire need of an ugrade.
They are spitting new armies out meanwhile the old ones are left in the sewer. Eldar, dark eldar, sisters and plenty of others
really need some attention. Tau has some pretty old units too. You pay premium prices for old but ugly models.
Crisis suits are 60 € and they show age really badly.
It doesn’t mean gw hate Eldar. They’ve clearly just released a bunch of new stuff for Chaos and Space Marines.
Yes, cause poor Space Marines really needed more units.
It’s not about need. It’s about what sells enough units to keep the lights on at GWHQ. if them selling a tonne of Primaris Marines now means that they will have the capital to invest in a new plastic range for Eldar, Sisters or Squats then I’m all for it.
Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. And how many of each of those kits will each Aeldari player actually buy? Thousands need to be sold before GW even make the cost of the molds back.
I could see maybe one or two appearing at first, to test the water. But definitely not the whole Aspect range in one go.
General Kroll wrote: It’s not about need. It’s about what sells enough units to keep the lights on at GWHQ. if them selling a tonne of Primaris Marines now means that they will have the capital to invest in a new plastic range for Eldar, Sisters or Squats then I’m all for it.
I try not to be a salty Sisters player, but I'll believe this when I see a Plastic Battle Sisters box.
Lorizael wrote: Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. And how many of each of those kits will each Aeldari player actually buy? Thousands need to be sold before GW even make the cost of the molds back.
I could see maybe one or two appearing at first, to test the water. But definitely not the whole Aspect range in one go.
I think you could do it in 3 kits.
Banshee/Hawk
Scorp/Dragon
Reaper/Spider
They represent light/medium/heavy armour styles, and with different heads, arms (some backpacks/wings) and other accessories would work quite well. Boxes of 6 (including Exarch weapons).
Lorizael wrote: Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. And how many of each of those kits will each Aeldari player actually buy? Thousands need to be sold before GW even make the cost of the molds back.
I could see maybe one or two appearing at first, to test the water. But definitely not the whole Aspect range in one go.
The same sad, tired old arguments were trotted out against Dark Eldar, Harlequins Ad Mech and Genestealer Cults
Likely they were also droned out around the boardroom table at GW together with - " meh just make Mmarines - its the only possible model that will ever sell - no sales figures are nothing to do with the fact that we put 95% of our marketing and support behind them - its because people only want marines."
Then when other things sell the same drones rumble on about how Marines would have sold more etc etc.
t’s not about need. It’s about what sells enough units to keep the lights on at GWHQ. if them selling a tonne of Primaris Marines now means that they will have the capital to invest in a new plastic range for Eldar, Sisters or Squats then I’m all for it.
Except its more likely to be
"Did we sell Marines?" yep
Well keep making them -
"should we make other things?"
"Well, do we know they will sell?
"Similar models and ranges do very well for other companies ."
Lorizael wrote: Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. And how many of each of those kits will each Aeldari player actually buy? Thousands need to be sold before GW even make the cost of the molds back.
I could see maybe one or two appearing at first, to test the water. But definitely not the whole Aspect range in one go.
The same sad, tired old arguments were trotted out against Dark Eldar, Harlequins Ad Mech and Genestealer Cults
Likely they were also droned out around the boardroom table at GW together with - " meh just make Mmarines - its the only possible model that will ever sell - no sales figures are nothing to do with the fact that we put 95% of our marketing and support behind them - its because people only want marines."
Then when other things sell the same drones rumble on about how Marines would have sold more etc etc.
It's not just a faction problem, but also a brand new kit vs redoing an old one. Most people who would buy new aspect warriors would also buy a brand new eldar unit (because they like eldar), while some would buy the new one and not a redone aspect kit (because they have enough aspects already). Especially the gamer only crew if the new models come with powerful rules.
With that in mind, I believe the next new kits we'll see for Aeldari will be a proper Ynnari release.
Lorizael wrote: Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. And how many of each of those kits will each Aeldari player actually buy? Thousands need to be sold before GW even make the cost of the molds back.
I could see maybe one or two appearing at first, to test the water. But definitely not the whole Aspect range in one go.
I think you could do it in 3 kits.
Banshee/Hawk
Scorp/Dragon
Reaper/Spider
I agree that 3 kits would do the trick, but I think it makes more sense to combine Dragons/Reapers and Scorp/Spiders. This is due to the similar poses that each would likely have.
Dragon/Reapers are both standing straight with both feet on the ground holding a 2 handed gun.
Scorp/Spiders can both have crouching or leaping stances.
146$ USD worth. Wonder if they will keep it at 85$ or bump it to 100$ like the Daughters of Khaine AoS starter box. If its at 85 this is a super good deal. War Walkers might even been good in the new codex!
str00dles1 wrote: 146$ USD worth. Wonder if they will keep it at 85$ or bump it to 100$ like the Daughters of Khaine AoS starter box. If its at 85 this is a super good deal. War Walkers might even been good in the new codex!
The Daughters of Khaine box wasn't a "Start Collecting".
GW's very good about the branding/image of products. No "Start Collecting" tag means it was just intended to be a bundle box.
str00dles1 wrote: 146$ USD worth. Wonder if they will keep it at 85$ or bump it to 100$ like the Daughters of Khaine AoS starter box. If its at 85 this is a super good deal. War Walkers might even been good in the new codex!
The Daughters of Khaine box wasn't a "Start Collecting".
GW's very good about the branding/image of products. No "Start Collecting" tag means it was just intended to be a bundle box.
But did you guys notice the new Start collecting! box is quite different from the others? So far, all the SC boxes have a white background, and the strip at the top/bottom has some 40K-looking texture, like the space marine one:
Spoiler:
The new ones (both CWE and tyrannid) have a dark background and a different top/bottom strip design. They could be changing the box art for 8th edition, or they could be moving away from the "same price for all boxes" approach. Or it could be a fake.
I suppose a change in box art is the most probable, but I still find it weird.
really need some attention. Tau has some pretty old units too. You pay premium prices for old but ugly models.
Crisis suits are 60 € and they show age really badly..
Wait what? Arent Crisis Suits from 2013 or 2015. I agree that they are overpriced, but Tau like Dark Eldar is one of the most up to date ranges. Barring some kroot units, vespids and our characters, that event being finecast are very good looking, the rest is very nice looking plastic.
really need some attention. Tau has some pretty old units too. You pay premium prices for old but ugly models.
Crisis suits are 60 € and they show age really badly..
Wait what? Arent Crisis Suits from 2013 or 2015. I agree that they are overpriced, but Tau like Dark Eldar is one of the most up to date ranges. Barring some kroot units, vespids and our characters, that event being finecast are very good looking, the rest is very nice looking plastic.
They could be thinking of the old ones from when they first got released, for a moment I thought the same. Checked GW's web store and the battlesuits are not the saem as those originally released.
Lorizael wrote: Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. And how many of each of those kits will each Aeldari player actually buy? Thousands need to be sold before GW even make the cost of the molds back.
I could see maybe one or two appearing at first, to test the water. But definitely not the whole Aspect range in one go.
Exactly. How old are the plastic Dire Avengers? I’d have thought if they’d been a roaring sales success we would have seen another aspect get the same treatment by now.
Lorizael wrote: Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. .
Well, presumably they would go "dual-kit" the way they did with Wraithguard. Simply add variants/weapon options. Banshee shrine with blades, Banshee shrine with whips, Banshee shrine with spears, etc.., etc.. each shrine a different head/mask style, plus more weapon options for the exarch..... etc...
I don't know what Dire Avengers' rules were like last edition, but if they're not selling now I suspect the problem has relatively little to do with the models.
str00dles1 wrote: 146$ USD worth. Wonder if they will keep it at 85$ or bump it to 100$ like the Daughters of Khaine AoS starter box. If its at 85 this is a super good deal. War Walkers might even been good in the new codex!
The Daughters of Khaine box wasn't a "Start Collecting".
GW's very good about the branding/image of products. No "Start Collecting" tag means it was just intended to be a bundle box.
But did you guys notice the new Start collecting! box is quite different from the others? So far, all the SC boxes have a white background, and the strip at the top/bottom has some 40K-looking texture, like the space marine one:
Spoiler:
The new ones (both CWE and tyrannid) have a dark background and a different top/bottom strip design. They could be changing the box art for 8th edition, or they could be moving away from the "same price for all boxes" approach. Or it could be a fake.
I suppose a change in box art is the most probable, but I still find it weird.
It's more than probable, it's already been done.
They're repacking stuff from the previous way to the new way as they pull it to redo the instructions to have the datasheets.
Lorizael wrote: Plastic Aspects would be a huge investment, with no return guaranteed to be big enough.
The units are so unique in design and aesthetic, that it would be hard to dual-kit them (maybe Banshees/Hawks..?), so we're talking about investing in 6 new plastic infantry kits. And how many of each of those kits will each Aeldari player actually buy? Thousands need to be sold before GW even make the cost of the molds back.
I could see maybe one or two appearing at first, to test the water. But definitely not the whole Aspect range in one go.
The same sad, tired old arguments were trotted out against Dark Eldar, Harlequins Ad Mech and Genestealer Cults
Likely they were also droned out around the boardroom table at GW together with - " meh just make Mmarines - its the only possible model that will ever sell - no sales figures are nothing to do with the fact that we put 95% of our marketing and support behind them - its because people only want marines."
Then when other things sell the same drones rumble on about how Marines would have sold more etc etc.
t’s not about need. It’s about what sells enough units to keep the lights on at GWHQ. if them selling a tonne of Primaris Marines now means that they will have the capital to invest in a new plastic range for Eldar, Sisters or Squats then I’m all for it.
Except its more likely to be
"Did we sell Marines?" yep
Well keep making them -
"should we make other things?"
"Well, do we know they will sell?
"Similar models and ranges do very well for other companies ."
Ah but have they done well for us?"
"Well no but we don;t make them."
"See - we need to make more MAHRINES"
You totally contradict yourself here. On one hand you’re saying Dark Eldar, Ad Mech, Harlequins and Genestealer Cults all got big releases, before going on to say GW only ever really want to make Marines.
Could it be that by selling, obviously popular Marine kits and making cold hard cash out of them, allows them to invest in the design and sculpts needed for big non marine releases?
It’s obvious GW are more than willing to take risks and release new non marine model ranges, on a regular basis. They also clearly need to invest money in sure fire sales winners like Space Marines.
pretre wrote: So, it looks like that Natfka rumor was wrong since tyranids are next.
Natfka rumour is Craftworld Pre-order this weekend (which would be a fortnight after Guard and 4 weeks after AM) and Tyranids following a fortnight later.
No I am saying that they all eventually got releases despite people saying "OMG no can't do ,only marines sell" and we still have people on this thread saying the same thing. If they had listened to the "Marines only" people we would not have had them.
And if those Non marine releases "Shock horror" sold well maybe they should do more non marines and just have Forge World churning out near exclusive marine products as they do now.
Many people won't buy fine cast or metal so making plastic non marines actually increases your market. They have already had to invent an whole new species of Marine plus squeeze every lost drop of blood out of the "chosen" Marines (Wolves, Angels) to keep Marines selling.
Honestly the worst kits in the Eldar kits aren't even the Aspects, it's the Guardians. They show their age really badly, their weapons are comically large and there's next to no detail on the models. A Guardian/Avenger kit would be most welcome next to other Aspect kits.
Mymearan wrote: Honestly the worst kits in the Eldar kits aren't even the Aspects, it's the Guardians. They show their age really badly, their weapons are comically large and there's next to no detail on the models. A Guardian/Avenger kit would be most welcome next to other Aspect kits.
I really like the Guardian kit, the fact that they are unfussy and have clean lines really appeals. Don’t think their weapons are out of proportion either.
Mymearan wrote: Honestly the worst kits in the Eldar kits aren't even the Aspects, it's the Guardians. They show their age really badly, their weapons are comically large and there's next to no detail on the models. A Guardian/Avenger kit would be most welcome next to other Aspect kits.
I really like the Guardian kit, the fact that they are unfussy and have clean lines really appeals. Don’t think their weapons are out of proportion either.
str00dles1 wrote: 146$ USD worth. Wonder if they will keep it at 85$ or bump it to 100$ like the Daughters of Khaine AoS starter box. If its at 85 this is a super good deal. War Walkers might even been good in the new codex!
The Daughters of Khaine box wasn't a "Start Collecting".
GW's very good about the branding/image of products. No "Start Collecting" tag means it was just intended to be a bundle box.
But did you guys notice the new Start collecting! box is quite different from the others? So far, all the SC boxes have a white background, and the strip at the top/bottom has some 40K-looking texture, like the space marine one:
Spoiler:
The new ones (both CWE and tyrannid) have a dark background and a different top/bottom strip design. They could be changing the box art for 8th edition, or they could be moving away from the "same price for all boxes" approach. Or it could be a fake.
I suppose a change in box art is the most probable, but I still find it weird.
It's more than probable, it's already been done.
They're repacking stuff from the previous way to the new way as they pull it to redo the instructions to have the datasheets.
It is just a repack with new art. I bought a new Start Collecting Necrons box last week, and was surprised by the dark box art. But the contents were identical to the older white box I already had. No datasheets.
My guess is new Ynnari faction with new models next year, bascally the Primaris versions of Eldar. Look at the characters... they are larger then normal Eldar models (Yvraine etc...). This may include some aspects, but the models will be slightly larger to represent them returning to their old strength, pre-fall.
dan2026 wrote: It is disheartening to see every old codex coming out so far getting nothing. Except SM.
Nobody is getting any love. :(
I don't understand what GW is doing here.
New GW, new policy. Every release had to be tied in with some story/campaign or box set and will be hype up with rumour image and even full leak months before its release.
dan2026 wrote: It is disheartening to see every old codex coming out so far getting nothing. Except SM.
Nobody is getting any love. :(
I don't understand what GW is doing here.
I mean, a Primaris or Death Guard type release for every new codex is just not a reasonable ask when there are two codices coming out every month. And I'd certainly much rather we get a codex every two weeks instead of a codex every three months.
pretre wrote: So, it looks like that Natfka rumor was wrong since tyranids are next.
Natfka rumour is Craftworld Pre-order this weekend (which would be a fortnight after Guard and 4 weeks after AM) and Tyranids following a fortnight later.
And yet, we see that the Tyranid is preorder first.
pretre wrote: So, it looks like that Natfka rumor was wrong since tyranids are next.
Natfka rumour is Craftworld Pre-order this weekend (which would be a fortnight after Guard and 4 weeks after AM) and Tyranids following a fortnight later.
And yet, we see that the Tyranid is preorder first.
To clarify: do we actually see that or do we see a date for the Tyranid pre-order and no information for Eldar? Like, if the Eldar codex is coming out on the 28th it's not very surprising that the November WD doesn't have a date for them, right?
Warhammer Community site has been polling people on Craftworlds.
Spoiler:
I would think it is likely they are next (Oct. 14th or more likely Oct. 21st preorder). Leaves at least another week of "downtime" (Blood Bowl Elves? Chapter Approved? General's Handbook?) before Tyranids get their turn, before/alongside Necromunda and Shadespire expansion packs in November.
I think there is a strong possibility of new plastic kits for Eldar when they release Ynnari codex. I do not expect anything for this coming release (Oct 28th) except Eldrad single. I would be fine with this too. The Guardians are fine as are the jetbikes. It's really the Aspects that need love, and they could really flesh those out when Ynnari are released. It makes sense too since Biel Tan has been splintered (the Craftworld that used to field the most Aspects) so if that is no longer a faction in the new codex, it bodes well that Ynnari will be the 'warrior" Eldar and will get the new plastic Aspects. There has to be a change to Biel Tan otherwise what was the point. I love that they moved the story forward and look forward to what comes with Ynnari later.
Don't count on it, if the Guard codex didn't include Elysia and Krieg, or the Marine codex did Red Scorpions, then FW's stuff conehead stuff won't pop up either.
Well, there's probably going to be something most people haven't heard of in it. Every codex so far has had 7 or 8 subfactions. AdMech and Marines got 7 while Chaos and Guard got 8, and one of Chaos' is a generic catch-all. Presumably the Eldar codex will have the Big 5, and maybe a generic Exiles sort of entry, but then probably one to three relative unknowns. Edit: Oh, I see, they're a FW thing like the Red Scorpions.
dan2026 wrote: It is disheartening to see every old codex coming out so far getting nothing. Except SM.
Nobody is getting any love. :(
I don't understand what GW is doing here.
To explain what GW is doing, previously they would release a codex and models every 6 months.
Currently they are releasing a codex every 2 weeks to get everyone up to speed in 8th edition.
It is not possible for them to release a new wave of models every 2 weeks, and it would be insane business-wise for them to do so.
I dont think its unreasonable for them to release a couple of kits for the older armies that desperately need an update.
Not on the level of Death Guard, just something.
As it stands NONE of the older armies have got anything!
So...still no normal Eldar infantry newer than ten years old and a Codex that runs on a short list of wildly broken units instead of functioning on a basic level, is it?
Well, there's probably going to be something most people haven't heard of in it. Every codex so far has had 7 or 8 subfactions. AdMech and Marines got 7 while Chaos and Guard got 8, and one of Chaos' is a generic catch-all. Presumably the Eldar codex will have the Big 5, and maybe a generic Exiles sort of entry, but then probably one to three relative unknowns. Edit: Oh, I see, they're a FW thing like the Red Scorpions.
There are five more that had blurbs and paint schemes in older Codexes, and still appear on the decal sheets (Altansar, Il-Kaithe , Iybraesil, Lugganath, Yme-Loc), too.
I wonder if Aspects as we know them are done and the Ynnari might get new Aspects ala Primaris. If all the Finecast Aspects are missing from the Codex... I'll be in my bunk(er).
Chairman Aeon wrote: I wonder if Aspects as we know them are done and the Ynnari might get new Aspects ala Primaris. If all the Finecast Aspects are missing from the Codex... I'll be in my bunk(er).
I have recently got a fairly sizeable collection of various metal Aspect Warriors.
If they disappear from the books, I disappear from the planet.
People have been requesting a Mymeara tutorial for some time now. With Mymeara being a Forge World creation, I would be surprised to see it show up in the new codex.
Since I play a custom Craftworld it'd be nice if they had a simple Corsairs or Pirates trait for those playing outside of the listed Craftworlds. Much like the CSM book had simple "Renegades".
str00dles1 wrote: 146$ USD worth. Wonder if they will keep it at 85$ or bump it to 100$ like the Daughters of Khaine AoS starter box. If its at 85 this is a super good deal. War Walkers might even been good in the new codex!
The Daughters of Khaine box wasn't a "Start Collecting".
GW's very good about the branding/image of products. No "Start Collecting" tag means it was just intended to be a bundle box.
But did you guys notice the new Start collecting! box is quite different from the others? So far, all the SC boxes have a white background, and the strip at the top/bottom has some 40K-looking texture, like the space marine one:
[spoiler][/spoilerspoiler]
The new ones (both CWE and tyrannid) have a dark background and a different top/bottom strip design. They could be changing the box art for 8th edition, or they could be moving away from the "same price for all boxes" approach. Or it could be a fake.
I suppose a change in box art is the most probable, but I still find it weird.
I asked about the SC boxes in my local store when they discontinued the Orks box on the site. It's now back but with the dark background. The guy in store said 40k is going with a dark theme and AOS is the white theme. I didn't ask what they'll do with daemons, I assume go with the AOS colours.
dan2026 wrote: It is disheartening to see every old codex coming out so far getting nothing. Except SM.
Nobody is getting any love. :(
I don't understand what GW is doing here.
To explain what GW is doing, previously they would release a codex and models every 6 months.
Currently they are releasing a codex every 2 weeks to get everyone up to speed in 8th edition.
It is not possible for them to release a new wave of models every 2 weeks, and it would be insane business-wise for them to do so.
That isn't even close to the old release schedule, which was close to monthly for a new army book or codex (and accompanying miniatures), with about 3 months off per year for terrain, a boxed game or December. Sometimes 4 months, in years when a new edition came splashing in.
That got messed up when fantasy died and AoS was accompanied by several months of nothing. But rushing out minor changes to the index army and largely putting a stop to miniatures is a terrible plan to 'get everyone up to speed.' The index armies needed analysis and testing, not immediately replacement. A wide range of miniatures could have and should have continued to come, as a lot of armies have giant unsupported holes in their range, plus some interesting new stuff for the new edition. Half baked books is pretty insane business wise, far more so than consistent model releases.
Craftworld eldar actually do need a pretty significant model update. The Guardians and Dire avengers are starting to show their age. I'm not saying redesign them. But a recut of the sprues, some digital clean ups and sharpening of detail etc maybe more head variety. The way the heads are placed on the sprue makes more work cleaning up flash and mold lines. Craftworld Eldar were always my favorite xeno faction and I hope someday they get a more significant touch up of their models range.
Modock wrote: I think focusing mostly on new armies is gakky practise. There are so many crappy finecast models in dire need of an ugrade.
They are spitting new armies out meanwhile the old ones are left in the sewer. Eldar, dark eldar, sisters and plenty of others
really need some attention. Tau has some pretty old units too. You pay premium prices for old but ugly models.
Crisis suits are 60 € and they show age really badly.
It doesn’t mean gw hate Eldar. They’ve clearly just released a bunch of new stuff for Chaos and Space Marines.
Yes, cause poor Space Marines really needed more units.
Crisis suits were actually updated in the last edition, they just stayed with the boxy design aesthetic. I don't own any of the newer ones, but from what I understand they made them much more pose-able than the original kit (which had single position arms and legs). Other than that, they have very few aged models that are still in finecast...sniper drones, vespids, and a couple of kroot models are pretty much it. Dark Eldar is one of the most recent 40K armies to get a major overhaul...in fact, save for a couple of named characters, the ENTIRE range was redesigned from the ground up and is one of the better looking almost all-plastic armies available today. Even the wracks, and humonculi, which were initially released in metal, then in finecast, got a recent plastic kit. Granted, they still have the Council models, Beasts, Incubi, Mandrakes and a couple of characters still in finecast...at least they are fairly recent sculpts.
I agree with you that Eldar need to finally get some plastic Aspect warriors, especially the Warp Spiders, which really still are a sculpt from the 90s. They have a few other models that could really use a plastic kit as well (I'm looking at you pathfinders, phoenix lords and warlocks!).
You have to understand, the cycle we've been used to for decades, where a codex comes out every 3 or 4 months along with 3 or 4 new plastic kits for that army is over...at least for now. The Primaris Marines and the Death Guard releases are the closest to that cycle as we're gonna get for a while. They are furiously trying to release every 40k codex for 8th edition as fast as they possibly can so that people can get back to the meta-changing-reaction-arms-race that people tend to do in this hobby. People are buying more tentatively because most don't know what will change when their codex finally releases. The most you are going to see is a re-boxing or two, and these re-organized start collecting boxes. Very few, if any, new releases will be showing up.
Just looking at what needs the most attention, I would predict new kits for Eldar Craftworlds and Orks sooner than later...and a major (nearing the scale of Dark Eldar) Sisters of Battle faction re-release. The Eldar Guardian kit is getting long in the tooth, as are their jetbikes, I could see a new (and substantially more expensive) Jetbike/Shining Spear kit coming when they get through this mad codex release dash. Orks need new buggies (Hello 1997!), a new wartrack/scortcha kit, tank-bustas, Kommandos, a proppa Def-Kopta kit, and a multitude of HQs and special characters. Chaos/Traitor SM need a ton of love too, the Khorne Berzerker kit is a joke, and the CSM box set and bikers are not aging well either. Then there's the Havocs, Obliteraters/Mutilators, daemon princes and pretty much all of their HQs.
Have a little patience, my Tyranids won't see new models likely either (Codex pre-order on Nov 4th, release on the 11th)...even though we're still waiting on plastic kits for Shrikes (arguable whether or not they will be in the codex since they've only ever been a forgeworld upgrade), Lictors/Deathleapers, Biovores with Sporemines, Pyrovores, and Red Terror.
Agree with you on the Space Marine bloat, but they are the biggest money maker for GW, so what are you gonna do.
and at least Khorne Berzerkers can be proxied via Blood Warriors which look amazing.
Hard to catch everything, they look the same to me...
And a Fantasy range proxy is poor stop-gap for a replacement of horrible old kit...for $60 GW SHOULD have done what they did for the Tzaangor kit and included a sprue of chain axe and bolt pistol arms...the fact that they didn't do this presents a shimmering ray of hope that they will get a new kit sooner than later.
Ok guys, I'm wrong about the Jetbikes, they are shiney and new. Look, you get to be right I don't own any now, and have only ever owned the metal ones back in the day. I'm not sure why this is point to latch on to though. This only supports my argument that no one is really being neglected here. They are just trying to release all of the codices as quickly as possible, and it puzzles me as to why people feel some sort of bitter entitlement to new models during this book release surge.
Modock wrote: I think focusing mostly on new armies is gakky practise. There are so many crappy finecast models in dire need of an ugrade.
They are spitting new armies out meanwhile the old ones are left in the sewer. Eldar, dark eldar, sisters and plenty of others
really need some attention. Tau has some pretty old units too. You pay premium prices for old but ugly models.
Crisis suits are 60 € and they show age really badly.
It doesn’t mean gw hate Eldar. They’ve clearly just released a bunch of new stuff for Chaos and Space Marines.
Yes, cause poor Space Marines really needed more units.
Crisis suits were actually updated in the last edition, they just stayed with the boxy design aesthetic. I don't own any of the newer ones, but from what I understand they made them much more pose-able than the original kit (which had single position arms and legs). Other than that, they have very few aged models that are still in finecast...sniper drones, vespids, and a couple of kroot models are pretty much it. Dark Eldar is one of the most recent 40K armies to get a major overhaul...in fact, save for a couple of named characters, the ENTIRE range was redesigned from the ground up and is one of the better looking almost all-plastic armies available today. Even the wracks, and humonculi, which were initially released in metal, then in finecast, got a recent plastic kit. Granted, they still have the Council models, Beasts, Incubi, Mandrakes and a couple of characters still in finecast...at least they are fairly recent sculpts.
The crisis suits kit was updated 2 yeas ago but they look old especially if you compare them to ghostkeel and the commander.
Stealh suits, the piranha, hammerhead are more than 12 years old. I just recently painted the piranha and stealth suits and the casts were pretty bad.
The armor on the stealth suits was molded into legs, there were no hard edges between the two parts. I had to cut quite a bit of plastic off. If I compare
these kits to something newish I can say they show age badly.
Overblown Space Marines have half the miniatures the rest have all other races combined.
Are stealthsuits that old? They certainly aren't the original design that was launched with the range. But basically anything that isn't available in plastic yet is in need of an update badly. I'd sooner focus on those than try and redo stuff that can at least function. The next would be the main line troops and basic infantry. Things like the Aspect Warriors, CSM Marines, Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines, etc. The advantage to these kits is people who already have armies tend to still buy the mainline troops to build into their armies.
The current Stealth Suit plastic came out with the 4th edition Tau Empire Codex. You can even see a stylized version on the cover. I remember that release very well, especially since my tau friend wouldn't shut up about it. It's pretty ancient now when it was released I was just out of junior high. Same goes for the Piranha, which was part of the same release (other ones included a plastic and metal Tau Commander, Commander Shadowsun, Aun'Va, the current Finecast Ethereal sculpts, sniper drones, and the Skyray Gunship).
The Tau line, at least, aged well. The Vyper (or at least the gunner) looks absolutely goofy next to contemporary guardians.
Most people are kinda miffed at the Marine releases because they pumped out so many new plastic sets for marines when they could have used those resources for factions that actually needed an update (sisters especially, since they basically only need 4 plastic sets to work. And we got waaaay more than 4 plastic sets).
No one is arguing the age of plastic kits - moreso that major infantry units either are in friggin' resin...or don't even exist. Eldar are the only army clinging to that much old stuff as necessary to build an army. While it doesn't impact me personally, it's definitely a silly way to do a business (particularly when they put effort into releasing a full Harlequin line of models --- time and space which could have gone to actually finishing the real Eldar army before going off on tangents).
To be fair, most of the harlequin models are just remade versions of the existing finecast/metal sculpts and they only got 3 real big sets.There was significantly less effort required for them. The AdMech though was basically created wholecloth and was only really saved by the fact that it's the freaking AdMechs.
Harlequin kit are remade from Dark Eldar kit. Quite a lacklusting release, wish they had a Heavy Support and Jump pack infantry but I was happy with what they put out.
Fango wrote: Ok guys, I'm wrong about the Jetbikes, they are shiney and new. Look, you get to be right I don't own any now, and have only ever owned the metal ones back in the day. I'm not sure why this is point to latch on to though. This only supports my argument that no one is really being neglected here. They are just trying to release all of the codices as quickly as possible, and it puzzles me as to why people feel some sort of bitter entitlement to new models during this book release surge.
Your arquments are actually pretty much what has been said when GW was doing 6th and 7th ed codex updates...
"Once GW has updated all codexes they will release updated models".
Umm...Where are the theorized updated models? GW doesn't really do much in terms of new models, especially for old units, without codex. Never been heavy on that. Occasionally yes but generally new models outside codex release tend to be totally new units never heard(since those you sell for all players of army rather than just faction of it like redesign would) or completely new faction.
So your arquments suffer from lack of belief because it's been toted for literally years.
The annoying answer is that making kits of new units will usually sell better than updates of old ones. Why do you think the Primaris marines are their own thing rather than just updates of tactical and devastators? I would expect new Eldar units to be made and old ones slowly phased out more than I would expect updates to resin kits.
bullyboy wrote: . It's really the Aspects that need love, and they could really flesh those out when Ynnari are released. It makes sense too since Biel Tan has been splintered (the Craftworld that used to field the most Aspects) so if that is no longer a faction in the new codex, it bodes well that Ynnari will be the 'warrior" Eldar and will get the new plastic Aspects. There has to be a change to Biel Tan otherwise what was the point.
While not necessarily disagreeing much here, bully, it does worry me a little. The Aspects (and the original Eldar article back in WD 127, was it?) are what really 'sealed the deal' for me in 40k, though due to them being all metal at the time (coupled with lack of painting confidence!) it took me a while to finally take the plunge with them. And coupled with the Jes video interview around the time the Triumvirate was released (not able to look for link atm, sorry) where I'm sure he said he found pleasure in "doing new things" with the strong implication of meaning more than a simple tidying up of old sculpts... well, let's just say that the Ynnari have me slightly concerned as to what the future of the Craftworlds may be. I like the Ynnari characters as concepts and sculpts in themselves, they just have a strong whiff of the Drukhari about them (which is the point, of course).
That said, my current toys aren't going anywhere so I'll still have them, no matter what happens.
Fango wrote: Ok guys, I'm wrong about the Jetbikes, they are shiney and new. Look, you get to be right I don't own any now, and have only ever owned the metal ones back in the day. I'm not sure why this is point to latch on to though. This only supports my argument that no one is really being neglected here. They are just trying to release all of the codices as quickly as possible, and it puzzles me as to why people feel some sort of bitter entitlement to new models during this book release surge.
Your arquments are actually pretty much what has been said when GW was doing 6th and 7th ed codex updates...
"Once GW has updated all codexes they will release updated models".
Umm...Where are the theorized updated models? GW doesn't really do much in terms of new models, especially for old units, without codex. Never been heavy on that. Occasionally yes but generally new models outside codex release tend to be totally new units never heard(since those you sell for all players of army rather than just faction of it like redesign would) or completely new faction.
So your arquments suffer from lack of belief because it's been toted for literally years.
I think GW are changing we don't know what the future holds, it's unprecedented to release all these codexes so quickly. When was the last edition that every codex was updated to that current edition? I don't think there has been since I have been playing for 10+ years now.
TheWaspinator wrote:The annoying answer is that making kits of new units will usually sell better than updates of old ones. Why do you think the Primaris marines are their own thing rather than just updates of tactical and devastators? I would expect new Eldar units to be made and old ones slowly phased out more than I would expect updates to resin kits.
I had the exact same thought and I think mostly this is true. It makes sense that if a unit is new no one has it yet so there is a greater number of potential customers.
Pilum wrote:
Spoiler:
bullyboy wrote: . It's really the Aspects that need love, and they could really flesh those out when Ynnari are released. It makes sense too since Biel Tan has been splintered (the Craftworld that used to field the most Aspects) so if that is no longer a faction in the new codex, it bodes well that Ynnari will be the 'warrior" Eldar and will get the new plastic Aspects. There has to be a change to Biel Tan otherwise what was the point.
While not necessarily disagreeing much here, bully, it does worry me a little. The Aspects (and the original Eldar article back in WD 127, was it?) are what really 'sealed the deal' for me in 40k, though due to them being all metal at the time (coupled with lack of painting confidence!) it took me a while to finally take the plunge with them. And coupled with the Jes video interview around the time the Triumvirate was released (not able to look for link atm, sorry) where I'm sure he said he found pleasure in "doing new things" with the strong implication of meaning more than a simple tidying up of old sculpts... well, let's just say that the Ynnari have me slightly concerned as to what the future of the Craftworlds may be. I like the Ynnari characters as concepts and sculpts in themselves, they just have a strong whiff of the Drukhari about them (which is the point, of course).
That said, my current toys aren't going anywhere so I'll still have them, no matter what happens.
The aspects are too integral to what Eldar are about which is why I'm sure we will see plastic aspects at some point. GW have been giving fans what they want and we want new aspect kits.
Nvs wrote: Are stealthsuits that old? They certainly aren't the original design that was launched with the range. But basically anything that isn't available in plastic yet is in need of an update badly. I'd sooner focus on those than try and redo stuff that can at least function. The next would be the main line troops and basic infantry. Things like the Aspect Warriors, CSM Marines, Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines, etc. The advantage to these kits is people who already have armies tend to still buy the mainline troops to build into their armies.
Yep, the stealth suit box I have is from 2015 but the sprues are from 2005.
Eldar really need some love from GW. When I was deciding which army to choose I checked what the faction have to offer.
I like the Eldars but seeing how many minis are still in finecast, I skipped it.
It's no wonder why Space Marines are selling so good, it's because GW is pushing them so hard. They have by far the most
minis. I bet Eldar would sell much better if they got the same treatment as SM.
I am rather puzzled, to my knowledge Eldar were always one of more popular armies. Did something changed as time went on?
I enjoy my pointy ears, but what I wouldn't give to see some changes in the army and models. Although I quite like Falcon and Vypers, they too feel quite old. Some say that Ynnari are the only future, I hope they're incorrect in this predicament.
They are popular, but for the last two edition people pretty much only bought Wraithknights, Jetbikes, Wave Serpents, and a few dire avengers to have a reason to take wave serpents.
I use to gripe about my Biel Tan army being forgotten and no longer existed.
GW then went "no we didn't forget it existed" and then proceeded to snap it in half
I found that very amusing.
Back on topic. Aspect Warriors have largely been forgotten because Farseer buffs, Wave Serpent spam, and undercosted units like the Windriders and Wraithknight basically made everyone forget they ever existed. Few people remember that Eldar units are suppose to be cripplingly overspecialized, and that you were suppose to bring a lot of different units to handle threats. Instead their basic Fast Attack Choice and transport became the most broken thing in the game, followed by the introduction of a giant moving statue that later got updated to be essentially invincible.
Look more like no-one in the GW team really like living Eldar infantry. Look at the autarch, Farseer, Spiritseer kit and how boring it is. Whoever design them must be like " Please I've done it no more Craftworld"
Dionysodorus wrote: I don't know what Dire Avengers' rules were like last edition, but if they're not selling now I suspect the problem has relatively little to do with the models.
Dire Avengers were adequate but were hamstrung by the fact that Jetbikes were better in pretty much every regard and were also a Troop choice.
The Eldar range has suffered a lot from internal balance issues because there are so many units, many of them dating back to the late 80s. Competitive choices vary from edition to edition but there has always been a large subset of the Eldar range that is rubbish. It is just that different units take it in turns to shuffle in and out of that set.
Elbows wrote: GW has been fumbling the ball a ton with Eldar lately in my opinion, but I suppose I'm just an old grognard...
Not really. In 6th edition they had the new Wraith units they wanted to shift so they made them great. In 7th they had the shiny new Jetbikes so they made them the new hotness, And just to make sure people bought the new ones rather than reusing vintage models, they gave them the ability to take heavy weapons on every bike.
From GW's POV, gthe last 2 codices were exactly what they wanted them to be.
I really think GW should take a long look through their line - convert any remaining metals to plastic, then hit the finecast lines and turn them to plastic. All the while keeping an eye open for, "do we really need to continue this model?", phasing out those that won't do well if converted, or dropping them (or the custom parts to make them) into another existing kit as a "bonus" model.
As for aspect, I wish they would redo the aspects into a melee/ranged dual kit, creating new aspects as they do so. I'd settle for dual kits that make different aspects like Banshees/Scorpions, but it would not be my preference.
Of course, I wish that GW would stop forcing us to make a unit all melee or all ranged; in this day and age, having half the squad geared up for melee and the other half kitted for range wouldn't be hard. And it'd let them combine some kits (like hormagaunts/termagants as a big example).
Elbows wrote: GW has been fumbling the ball a ton with Eldar lately in my opinion, but I suppose I'm just an old grognard...
Not really. In 6th edition they had the new Wraith units they wanted to shift so they made them great. In 7th they had the shiny new Jetbikes so they made them the new hotness, And just to make sure people bought the new ones rather than reusing vintage models, they gave them the ability to take heavy weapons on every bike.
From GW's POV, gthe last 2 codices were exactly what they wanted them to be.
That's a good point, too. If they did plastic aspect warriors, even people that already had plenty would buy the new ones, because they would undoubtedly include new weapons and options. Especially if they looked better. I personally only have one version of each aspect, from back in 2nd edition, but I also didn't really like the newer versions of most of them.
Chopstick wrote: Look more like no-one in the GW team really like living Eldar infantry. Look at the autarch, Farseer, Spiritseer kit and how boring it is. Whoever design them must be like " Please I've done it no more Craftworld"
I'll give you the autarch, but the spiritseer is pretty cool and the farseer is awesome. Not to mention Eldrad.
Uriels_Flame wrote: Wraithguard have been the newest plastic kit, right? Made them bigger than my old metal ones with new options?
Again, I like the SC box but that is the army I currently run so a suppose we wait and see what the rules do...
Warp Spiders/Banshees/Swooping Hawks are not used in my area and have not seen them on my local tables.
Striking Scorpions and Fire Dragons still have a place but this is with Ynnari being end of 7th and Index 8th.
I think we’re moving towards Primaris Aeldari about the size of the new Wraithguard/Incubi being the norm.
What? You do know that Incubi are half the size of Wraithguard being effectively Aspect Warriors themselves? And the Wraithguard kit came out with the 6th ed codex so about 2012, the Windriders are newer as they came out with the 7th ed dex.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Few people remember that Eldar units are suppose to be cripplingly overspecialized, and that you were suppose to bring a lot of different units to handle threats.
Maybe they they remember when all Eldar were pirates...before Jes' trip to Egypt.
But your statement in the dilemma of the Eldar range. Too many very specialized units. It's what killed my interest in Eldar back in the '90s--that and it no longer looked like a unified army. I think th breaking of the Aspect Craftworld may have been about more than bringing us Body G and the Primaris. I think the Aspects might jump ship to the Ynarri equivalent. This way GW can sell Eldar players new stuff rather than compete with eBay for Space Elf dollars. The new "aspects" might have similarities to some of the old, but could be taken by all Eldar, CW or Dark.
Even if you love CWE as they are, you have to admit you'd be crazy to start a fresh army with the models available.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Few people remember that Eldar units are suppose to be cripplingly overspecialized, and that you were suppose to bring a lot of different units to handle threats.
Maybe they they remember when all Eldar were pirates...before Jes' trip to Egypt.
But your statement in the dilemma of the Eldar range. Too many very specialized units. It's what killed my interest in Eldar back in the '90s--that and it no longer looked like a unified army. I think th breaking of the Aspect Craftworld may have been about more than bringing us Body G and the Primaris. I think the Aspects might jump ship to the Ynarri equivalent. This way GW can sell Eldar players new stuff rather than compete with eBay for Space Elf dollars. The new "aspects" might have similarities to some of the old, but could be taken by all Eldar, CW or Dark.
Even if you love CWE as they are, you have to admit you'd be crazy to start a fresh army with the models available.
To be fair, compared to the even older 3rd edition Aspect Warriors, the "newer" ones do look a bit more unified (in that you can see that the armor is based off of the Guardian armor rather than just be each individually unique). Hopefully if they do a next iteration, they will be even more unified (like how the tyranids all got the same general chitin setup now).
Also a non-varied paintjob does help making them look similar.
The obvious solution is to just jam Eldar in the next starter set already, with 3-4 aspects in easy-assemble plastics. Voila, cheap enough to justify even if you already have 3 generations of every aspect. Monopose, sure, but they can do super dynamic poses and it's not like you're fielding many units of each.
lord_blackfang wrote: The obvious solution is to just jam Eldar in the next starter set already, with 3-4 aspects in easy-assemble plastics. Voila, cheap enough to justify even if you already have 3 generations of every aspect. Monopose, sure, but they can do super dynamic poses and it's not like you're fielding many units of each.
They are more monoposed now than the new plague marines. The plague marines I would argue aren't even monopose as you can change the arms and heads so only combining the torso and legs (at least that's my understanding of it).
I would happily take a plastic copy of the current aspect warrior molds the issue for me is that finecast is crap. If we got a plague marine "monopose" type of aspect warriors that would be great. Even if we got actual monopose like the starter also great.
I think your suggestion is a good solution to put them in a starter box. There were rumours about multiple starter box sets and ago which I think were disproven by other other things they said turning out wrong, but we can hope.
I like that. That can be a brutal combination with the Knights stomp ability.
Some interesting tidbits in there. I hate that they're just doing a "Hey, if you've got money for this one week only, you'll be lucky, screw the rest of you guys" thing with the models, but oh well.
djones520 wrote: I like that. That can be a brutal combination with the Knights stomp ability.
Some interesting tidbits in there. I hate that they're just doing a "Hey, if you've got money for this one week only, you'll be lucky, screw the rest of you guys" thing with the models, but oh well.
They might extend it a bit. They usually do based on demand.
Dozens of listed worlds, plus exodites and corsairs. Five.
Why?
Why would you expect others?
Iyanden
Alaitoc
Ulthwe
Saim-Hann
Biel-Tan
anything else would be highly unexpected.
Yeh, that seems to cover all the ones that are usually mentioned in the 'mainstream' codex entries. Sure there are several more that have brief mentions in fluff, but nothing that made it seem like GW would add rules for them.
The only exceptions to this would be Corsairs and Exodites, but Corsairs are currently a forgeworld release and so they would be the ones to release more rules for them. Exodites have no models in either GW or FW, so they wouldn't release rules for them in an edition where they're trying to tidy up datasheets with options that they don't sell models for.
They removed the options for IG sergeants to take axes, because there are no axes in the infantry box. Why would they then release rules for elves riding dinosaurs?
Saying that, it would be damn good if they did. Especially if they then pointed you at the Age of Sigmar model line for options on how to field an exodite army. The big tree men would make good wraithlords I think, and the saurian dinosaurs with a change in riders would make good jetbikers.
Imateria wrote: Thats a cool looking relic for Iyanden, Wraithblades with 6 attacks each on the charge sound nasty, and I run a squad of 10.
Defintiely getting the Bonesinger as well, can't work out which dice I want though.
It also bring a noticeable new wording for units.
Right now Wraith units fall into the Spirit Host keyword, the Wraith construct it's a whole new one so we can't be 100% sure wich units will affect.
Also worth to notice the Triumvirate of Ynnead will come with a new repackage and full rules inside, so maybe no adding them to Dark Eldar or harlequins future codex?
Don't we have rumours that exodites might get their own codex and range at some point?
I'm excited to see what the craftworlds can do, be a shame if there are no models to go with this release but the made to order stuff is nice and hopefully metal.
Imateria wrote: Thats a cool looking relic for Iyanden, Wraithblades with 6 attacks each on the charge sound nasty, and I run a squad of 10.
Defintiely getting the Bonesinger as well, can't work out which dice I want though.
It also bring a noticeable new wording for units.
Right now Wraith units fall into the Spirit Host keyword, the Wraith construct it's a whole new one so we can't be 100% sure wich units will affect.
Haha, I just wrote about this same thing in the Eldar tactica thread. 'Wraith' just refers to the wraithbone that Eldar use to build things, so a "Wraith Construct" could technically be anything made from the wraithbone... so Guard and Lords and Knights, sure. But also Grav Tanks, War Walkers, Jetbikes. Most of these wouldn't get a huge boost from bonus attacks, but perhaps there will be a different rule/ability that doubles the number of -shots- for a turn, instead of the number of attacks.
If it was meant for the dead guys only, then they could have just used <spirit host>, which is already unique to the wraithguard/lord/knight.
However, this rule is for Iyanden only, which would imply it's designed specifically for the walking dead... so yeh, intriguing.
I remember the model, but I don't remember the rules... what did the bonesinger do on the table?
Rules? It had no rules, it was just a cool model. You can probably play it as a Spiritseer.
Oh those dice... I'll never get why they keep making thematic dice. Looking neat is no excuse, keeping the game flowing is paramount. They're never readable enough to be acceptable for play, and some look quite suspect from a fairness standpoint as well (looking at you, death guard dice!).
Wish they’d done Craftworld dice rather than aspects, but they still look cool. May get some Dire Avengers dice.
Right? If doing dice, the 5 Craftworlds would have been great.
Or for true anal geekery, Aspect d6's, with the numbers being the order of their founding, so 1 is Dire Avengers (also the simplest rune), 2 would be Banshees and so on through the 'classic 6' (sorry, Spiders).
Edit: though I acknowledge it wouldn't be good to want to NOT see the symbol of my Avengers when they shoot!
Also worth to notice the Triumvirate of Ynnead will come with a new repackage and full rules inside, so maybe no adding them to Dark Eldar or harlequins future codex?
Yeah no Triumvirate of Ynnead and Ynnari rules in the Craftworld Codex probably means they wont be in the DE or Harlie's books either. Hopefully this is because there's a stand alone Ynnari book in the pipeline and not that there rules are going web or Triumvirate box exclusive.
Edit- Had a tidy up a few weeks back and found two boxes of Wraithguard and thought the new dex and SC was a sign to finally try out a yellow army. But thinking about the Ynnari has me tempted by there crimson and black
dan2026 wrote: Lol the facebook comments thread is full of people asking about plastic Aspect Warriors.
And GW replying to them with 'we hear you, honest...'.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I got the feeling the Ynnari rules are ONLY going to be in the Triumvirate of Ynnead. As in they won't be anywhere else (Craftworlds codex included).
From what I can see, the rules will be included in the box from now on, but those rules are the same as the ones in the index. They won't be in the craftworld codex, and they won't get a codex of their own.
There is a small chance that they may be put in the harlequins codex, if harlequins get a codex of their own, if only to fill in some page space. That won't be until late next year though I expect, if they even get one.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I got the feeling the Ynnari rules are ONLY going to be in the Triumvirate of Ynnead. As in they won't be anywhere else (Craftworlds codex included).
From the tone of the Community teams answers, they don’t seem 100% sure that Ynnari will be getting a Codex at all.
I'm for sure getting that bonesinger, I'd get the RT farseer but I got one a month ago. I had already planned on getting the fancy codex but I wasn't prepared for all those dice. I think most are to bright for me besides the reapers and banshee dice since I'm going to be making an Altansar army, which is why if Altansar has no special rules I'll just go with whatever suits a warrior heavy craftworld.
bullyboy wrote: remember when 8th dropped, Ynnari were a separate faction on GWs website. I think we will see a codex for them, along with plastic aspects/warriors.
Custodes / Sisters of Silence are also their own faction on GWs website and just got a booklet in the box.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I got the feeling the Ynnari rules are ONLY going to be in the Triumvirate of Ynnead. As in they won't be anywhere else (Craftworlds codex included).
That would be quite a kick in the teeth for people buying the Triumvirate and expecting to play them as a real army. No Stratagems, no warlord traits and no relics in exchange for SfD and mixing units from Aeldari? Sorry but that won't cut It in 8th.
So much for the new faction of Eldar
casvalremdeikun wrote: I got the feeling the Ynnari rules are ONLY going to be in the Triumvirate of Ynnead. As in they won't be anywhere else (Craftworlds codex included).
I would just like two different point costs: one for Ynarri and one without. I don’t use them but feel like WotP is incorporated into current point costs.
I don’t plan on repainting my entire Biel-Tan force but will see what rules and strategems we have available Friday.
The dice are meh. Black and red are hard to read, white and red are cool but can’t read the numbers.
If GW holds to form, swooping hawks Banshees and Fireprisms we’ll all be the new hotness.
I ‘m hoping for a point reduction for Wave Serpents or just auto include spirit stones.
tekn0v1king wrote: Isnt the problem that balancing both Ynarri and Craftworlds simultaneously was almost impossible?
Like in 8th everyone says "Ynarri are awsome, Eldar are garbage... why would you run craftworlds when you can run Ynarri?"
I would rather Ynarri become less of a thing, and Craftworld not be forced into playing Ynarri to be competitive.
I like the Triumvirate of Ynnead first, Eldar second. I'm sure there is more people like me. I don't want balanced Craftworlds and tacked-on Ynnari, I want to play Ynnari as a fully fledged 8th army. I think we deserve some kind of Stratagems and artifacts as the rest of the real armies are getting.
Yes, it's rare. It was only ever released as a promotional model you got for buying a specific Eldar army bundle way back. I think it was around the release of DoW 1, as there are bonesingers in that game.
GW are going to discontinue the Index books eventually. When that happens I'd be surprised if all the factions included don't have a stand alone codex. Even if it is a slimline "allies" force like some of the later 7th releases.
tekn0v1king wrote: Isnt the problem that balancing both Ynarri and Craftworlds simultaneously was almost impossible?
Like in 8th everyone says "Ynarri are awsome, Eldar are garbage... why would you run craftworlds when you can run Ynarri?"
I would rather Ynarri become less of a thing, and Craftworld not be forced into playing Ynarri to be competitive.
I like the Triumvirate of Ynnead first, Eldar second. I'm sure there is more people like me. I don't want balanced Craftworlds and tacked-on Ynnari, I want to play Ynnari as a fully fledged 8th army. I think we deserve some kind of Stratagems and artifacts as the rest of the real armies are getting.
Ynnari will be able to use any of the generic stratagems and artifacts, just not the ones that are Iyanden specific or Ulthwe specific.
The Space Marines and IG codices both had gear that was available to any legion who wanted it, as well as some gear that was only for specific named legions. Don't see the Eldar codex being any different.
So we'll still have stratagems and artifacts to use. And ynnari already have their Craftworld trait in SfD, which along with WotP is a very good trait. They also have the "trait" of being able to take Eldar Soup detachments without losing SfD, which even the Imperium can't do.
bullyboy wrote: remember when 8th dropped, Ynnari were a separate faction on GWs website. I think we will see a codex for them, along with plastic aspects/warriors.
Custodes / Sisters of Silence are also their own faction on GWs website and just got a booklet in the box.
Ynnari might well be the same.
The booklet in the box was for 7th edition, not 8th.
tekn0v1king wrote: Isnt the problem that balancing both Ynarri and Craftworlds simultaneously was almost impossible?
Like in 8th everyone says "Ynarri are awsome, Eldar are garbage... why would you run craftworlds when you can run Ynarri?"
I would rather Ynarri become less of a thing, and Craftworld not be forced into playing Ynarri to be competitive.
I like the Triumvirate of Ynnead first, Eldar second. I'm sure there is more people like me. I don't want balanced Craftworlds and tacked-on Ynnari, I want to play Ynnari as a fully fledged 8th army. I think we deserve some kind of Stratagems and artifacts as the rest of the real armies are getting.
Ynnari will be able to use any of the generic stratagems and artifacts, just not the ones that are Iyanden specific or Ulthwe specific.
The Space Marines and IG codices both had gear that was available to any legion who wanted it, as well as some gear that was only for specific named legions. Don't see the Eldar codex being any different.
So we'll still have stratagems and artifacts to use. And ynnari already have their Craftworld trait in SfD, which along with WotP is a very good trait. They also have the "trait" of being able to take Eldar Soup detachments without losing SfD, which even the Imperium can't do.
I hope that will be the case. Generic Eldar thingies (TM) would be enough on top of SfD to make them into a real army.
Going to be buying a load of bonesingers if metal. feth that guy trying to sell one on eBay for £100+. That Autarch had been in finecast before so don't know in what material he will be released.
Going to be buying a load of bonesingers if metal. feth that guy trying to sell one on eBay for £100+. That Autarch had been in finecast before so don't know in what material he will be released.
Are you getting a load of them in the hopes of being able to sell them for £100+ in a couple years? lol
I'm tempted to pick up a couple, as well as the old rogue trader farseer, just to make some unique character options for my army. Bonesinger I guess would be good for a spiritseer, but unfortunately spiritseers are currently completely pointless (though I hope this changes) but could still use them as exarchs or something. Or just have them as cool models to paint.
Though I dont think my painting skill could live up to them really.
Going to be buying a load of bonesingers if metal. feth that guy trying to sell one on eBay for £100+. That Autarch had been in finecast before so don't know in what material he will be released.
Are you getting a load of them in the hopes of being able to sell them for £100+ in a couple years? lol
I'm tempted to pick up a couple, as well as the old rogue trader farseer, just to make some unique character options for my army. Bonesinger I guess would be good for a spiritseer, but unfortunately spiritseers are currently completely pointless (though I hope this changes) but could still use them as exarchs or something. Or just have them as cool models to paint.
Though I dont think my painting skill could live up to them really.
No all for myself lol. Though I would be tempted to undercut anyone trying to sell for such high prices by maintaining a large stock pile myself.
You could use it to represent the Iyanden relic, there may be other relics it would be good for representing. It could be any psyker really
casvalremdeikun wrote: I got the feeling the Ynnari rules are ONLY going to be in the Triumvirate of Ynnead. As in they won't be anywhere else (Craftworlds codex included).
That would be quite a kick in the teeth for people buying the Triumvirate and expecting to play them as a real army. No Stratagems, no warlord traits and no relics in exchange for SfD and mixing units from Aeldari? Sorry but that won't cut It in 8th.
So much for the new faction of Eldar
I hope it's just a placeholder
They may well put them in the Codex or have them in Chapter Approved where all the the others deprived of Codex power boosts will hopefulyl get something.
The wargear piece is luckily free...as it's MASSIVELY narrow in its use. Oh, and the only piece of wargear I've seen yet which kills half the units which benefit from it...so, yay?
The dice are neat, and I may pick some up to sell them off later, but they're pretty horrid when it comes to reading dice. I wish GW would not try so hard when doing dice. Make them the colour of the craftworlds and put the emblem on the '6' face...it's just that easy.
Five Craftworlds was expected but is a let down for sure - hope they're a bit more fleshed out due to lack of options. I'll be keen to read all the hints and teases this week. I do wonder if they'll put the Bonesinger in the codex --- would be nice to have an Eldar techmarine for wraith units or vehicles, etc. Eldar have inexplicably never had recovery options for any of their armies (no medics, no repair eldarses...). Even the Warlocks don't have options to heal or refurb stuff.
My wishlist for the Eldar codex is all unlikely to happen so I won't even bother typing it out.
I don't like that they're re-using the cover art from the 7th ed codices, it increases the risk of confusion and makes it seem a bit cheap. Not that the Craftworlds codex is the first one where they did this though.
Elbows wrote: Well...that article is not terribly inspiring.
The wargear piece is luckily free...as it's MASSIVELY narrow in its use. Oh, and the only piece of wargear I've seen yet which kills half the units which benefit from it...so, yay?
The dice are neat, and I may pick some up to sell them off later, but they're pretty horrid when it comes to reading dice. I wish GW would not try so hard when doing dice. Make them the colour of the craftworlds and put the emblem on the '6' face...it's just that easy.
Five Craftworlds was expected but is a let down for sure - hope they're a bit more fleshed out due to lack of options. I'll be keen to read all the hints and teases this week. I do wonder if they'll put the Bonesinger in the codex --- would be nice to have an Eldar techmarine for wraith units or vehicles, etc. Eldar have inexplicably never had recovery options for any of their armies (no medics, no repair eldarses...). Even the Warlocks don't have options to heal or refurb stuff.
My wishlist for the Eldar codex is all unlikely to happen so I won't even bother typing it out.
Giving the bonesinger rules would be great. It does fit having it heal Wraithbone constructs. The fact that they're adding a whole new keyword to the army in the codex (wraith construct) at least implies they're adding or changing the rules that relate to them.
Also that piece of wargear doesn't kill half the units that it effects... it only does D3 wounds, so it will only kill a single wraithguard if you roll a 3. On average you'll lose 2 wounds from a wraithguard (I'll admit, that's pretty nasty), or 2 wounds from a knight or lord (not that bad really). What you gain, is a unit of 10 blades with swords, when charging, will do 60 attacks instead of 40. So you'll be attacking like a squad of 15 for a turn. And this buff extends to all wraith for that turn within 6". For a Iyanden army that's pretty good. Situational, sure, but so are quite a few wargear options. You'd only use it if you were building around it.
Elbows wrote: Well...that article is not terribly inspiring.
The wargear piece is luckily free...as it's MASSIVELY narrow in its use. Oh, and the only piece of wargear I've seen yet which kills half the units which benefit from it...so, yay?
The dice are neat, and I may pick some up to sell them off later, but they're pretty horrid when it comes to reading dice. I wish GW would not try so hard when doing dice. Make them the colour of the craftworlds and put the emblem on the '6' face...it's just that easy.
Five Craftworlds was expected but is a let down for sure - hope they're a bit more fleshed out due to lack of options. I'll be keen to read all the hints and teases this week. I do wonder if they'll put the Bonesinger in the codex --- would be nice to have an Eldar techmarine for wraith units or vehicles, etc. Eldar have inexplicably never had recovery options for any of their armies (no medics, no repair eldarses...). Even the Warlocks don't have options to heal or refurb stuff.
My wishlist for the Eldar codex is all unlikely to happen so I won't even bother typing it out.
The Bonesinger would seem a great addition in all ways - new option, cool model, new tactics - but they don't seem to be adding new non marine models at the moment :( The older model they will likely just say counts as a Farseer - if we were really lucky we might have got Iyanna.
Agreed re the dice - my deathwatch dice are borderline unusable.
tekn0v1king wrote: Isnt the problem that balancing both Ynarri and Craftworlds simultaneously was almost impossible?
Like in 8th everyone says "Ynarri are awsome, Eldar are garbage... why would you run craftworlds when you can run Ynarri?"
I would rather Ynarri become less of a thing, and Craftworld not be forced into playing Ynarri to be competitive.
I like the Triumvirate of Ynnead first, Eldar second. I'm sure there is more people like me. I don't want balanced Craftworlds and tacked-on Ynnari, I want to play Ynnari as a fully fledged 8th army. I think we deserve some kind of Stratagems and artifacts as the rest of the real armies are getting.
Ynnari will be able to use any of the generic stratagems and artifacts, just not the ones that are Iyanden specific or Ulthwe specific.
The Space Marines and IG codices both had gear that was available to any legion who wanted it, as well as some gear that was only for specific named legions. Don't see the Eldar codex being any different.
So we'll still have stratagems and artifacts to use. And ynnari already have their Craftworld trait in SfD, which along with WotP is a very good trait. They also have the "trait" of being able to take Eldar Soup detachments without losing SfD, which even the Imperium can't do.
I'm not sure that it will work this way. For example, if the Eldar codex uses basically the same wording as the codices we've already seen, then, per the Ynnari rules in the Xenos index, you could get a Craftworld Attribute and SfD. Ynnari units don't stop being Asuryani or <Craftworld> units, and they have SfD on a unit by unit basis by virtue of being Ynnari infantry or bikes. The only problem would be the one detachment which has the Ynnari character in it, but of course Chapter Tactics type rules have so far worked on a detachment by detachment basis. Most of the released codices have also handed out exemptions for certain units, and while this would be the first time where the exempted unit does not itself appear in the codex, it's not implausible that either the CWE codex or updated Ynnari rules would allow a detachment to get an Attribute even if one of the three Ynnari HQs is in it. The index just treats SfD as an army list special rule like Battle Focus or ATSKNF, not as anything like a Chapter Tactic. There's nothing very weird about it, rules-wise, except in the way that it replaces another rule. Space Marines also don't lose ATSKNF when they soup.
It's also very likely that if an Ynnari detachment can get the generic stratagems, then they can use the Craftworld-specific stratagems. In all of the other codices you unlock the <subfaction> stratagems just by virtue of having a <faction> detachment, it's just that the stratagems only do anything for <subfaction> units. Edit: What Ynnari armies wouldn't get, without the Eldar codex or updated Ynnari rules saying otherwise, is relics or warlord traits, since those have so far been tied to the faction of the army's warlord.
Even if there are only 5 big names, there are others that are in the codex and are their own factions. (Unlike successor chapters)
Nobody has a problem with guys like mordians or black Templars getting separate and special rules, why not yme-loc, altansar, or mymeara?
They're available, you have the story for them and a brief description of their strategies, just add some rules for it instead of forcing everyone to play like the 5 big guys.
I know mymeara and corsairs are forgeworld, but once you start mentioning them in the codex and core rulebook you give people the impression they'll A) exist in the game besides three unit entries and B) they're going to have some of their lore expanded upon.
Just seems like a waste to not expand, instead of constrict. Especially when the difference is a friggin paint job!
I don't have a problem with only five craftworlds, there are too many to give each their own rules anyway, so why not stick to the fab five?
I run my own craftworld, I'm going to pick whichever one of the five suits my fluff best. If you run Mymeara, Yme-Loc, Iybraesil or whatever, you can do the same thing.
Cream Tea wrote: I don't have a problem with only five craftworlds, there are too many to give each their own rules anyway, so why not stick to the fab five?
I run my own craftworld, I'm going to pick whichever one of the five suits my fluff best. If you run Mymeara, Yme-Loc, Iybraesil or whatever, you can do the same thing.
I think the objection is less that they're excluding Yme-Loc, specifically, and more that with 7 or 8 options to choose from you're more likely to be able to find one that best fits what you want to do. I mean, it's not like they seemed to have had much trouble coming up with 8 Regimental Doctrines for Guard, and those even split and do different things for infantry than for vehicles.
Cream Tea wrote: I don't have a problem with only five craftworlds, there are too many to give each their own rules anyway, so why not stick to the fab five?
I run my own craftworld, I'm going to pick whichever one of the five suits my fluff best. If you run Mymeara, Yme-Loc, Iybraesil or whatever, you can do the same thing.
I think the objection is less that they're excluding Yme-Loc, specifically, and more that with 7 or 8 options to choose from you're more likely to be able to find one that best fits what you want to do. I mean, it's not like they seemed to have had much trouble coming up with 8 Regimental Doctrines for Guard, and those even split and do different things for infantry than for vehicles.
Didn't Guard get doctrines for exactly the regiments that have have (non-FW) releases? They may have felt it was a nice gestures to release doctrines for all of their own models at least.
There are five Eldar craftworlds that stand apart in how well-known and represented they are, it makes sense to feature these specifically.
Also, this is GW. Don't expect equal treatment. They play favourites a lot.
From what I've seen, things like CHapter Tactics and Doctrines are acutally rather simple and straightforward in what they offer. I'm hoping that in concentrating on just 5 Craftworlds (the obvious 5) they can actually flesh them out to offer far more character to them than just -1 to hit for enemies more than 12" away (que people whinging about Eldar getting all the good rules).
Lets be honest, if the Craftworld traits can properly represent massed Aspect Warriors (Biel-Tan), Jetbike/Skimmer spam (Saim-Hann), Ghost Warriors (Iyanden), Rangers (Alaitoc) and Guardians & Warlocks (Ulthwe) then they would have properly covered all aspects of how the army works and your unique Craftworld can be formed from using detachments of different Craftworld traits.
Cream Tea wrote: I don't have a problem with only five craftworlds, there are too many to give each their own rules anyway, so why not stick to the fab five?
I run my own craftworld, I'm going to pick whichever one of the five suits my fluff best. If you run Mymeara, Yme-Loc, Iybraesil or whatever, you can do the same thing.
I think the objection is less that they're excluding Yme-Loc, specifically, and more that with 7 or 8 options to choose from you're more likely to be able to find one that best fits what you want to do. I mean, it's not like they seemed to have had much trouble coming up with 8 Regimental Doctrines for Guard, and those even split and do different things for infantry than for vehicles.
It will also depend on the quality of the rules for the 5 craftworlds. Even though guard and chaos and marines all had (I think) about 8 legions/doctrines, most people on here tend to agree that only one or two of them are any good, and the rest are trash.
If Eldar only get 5, but each of them are good in their own way, then they immediately have twice the options of the others (competitively speaking).
I'd be happy if all 5 craftworlds are fleshed out. If Alaitoc is just "-1 to hit outside of 12 inches" and a couple of wargear options, I'd be pretty disappointed. If they also get Pathfinder rules back, and if Ulthwe not only get better (as in usable) rules for a seer council, and access to Webway assaults, and various other changes that give each craftworld choice a distinct playstyle with multiple units, then I think it'd be pretty good.
For instance, with that Iyanden relic, if they also added something like Spiritseers can heal wraith constructs for D3 damage, but only for Iyanden...
Personally I'm alright with more craftworlds even if they are not as powerful as others. The way I see it, is that it still adds variety to the game, and as long as they are accurately represented in the fluff, I'm cool with that. I'm not saying having unbalanced craftworlds is a good thing, but if we can get more variety, what's not to like?
I have a feeling ulth'wei is going to bring guardian squads back in a big way, I imagine their craftworld trait will be "black guardians" that'll give them a decent buff and I imagine webway assaults would be a before game strategem for them, would be nice if it allowed a detachment to start in reserve even for 3CP that gives you a good reason to run large units of guardians to land in your opponents face.
Mantle wrote: I have a feeling ulth'wei is going to bring guardian squads back in a big way, I imagine their craftworld trait will be "black guardians" that'll give them a decent buff and I imagine webway assaults would be a before game strategem for them, would be nice if it allowed a detachment to start in reserve even for 3CP that gives you a good reason to run large units of guardians to land in your opponents face.
I really hope so. This kind of tactic was teased to us in fracture of Biel Tan at the end of seventh, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be carried over to the codex.
Honestly tempted to jump on this newest xenos filth bandwagon just on the basis of the Bonesinger coming back (if only briefly). Hell, if they made the Avatar of Khaine not awful (to justify getting the FW model, of course), I could see myself jumping on board with an entirely new army.
Imateria wrote: From what I've seen, things like CHapter Tactics and Doctrines are acutally rather simple and straightforward in what they offer. I'm hoping that in concentrating on just 5 Craftworlds (the obvious 5) they can actually flesh them out to offer far more character to them than just -1 to hit for enemies more than 12" away (que people whinging about Eldar getting all the good rules).
Lets be honest, if the Craftworld traits can properly represent massed Aspect Warriors (Biel-Tan), Jetbike/Skimmer spam (Saim-Hann), Ghost Warriors (Iyanden), Rangers (Alaitoc) and Guardians & Warlocks (Ulthwe) then they would have properly covered all aspects of how the army works and your unique Craftworld can be formed from using detachments of different Craftworld traits.
Mantle wrote: I have a feeling ulth'wei is going to bring guardian squads back in a big way, I imagine their craftworld trait will be "black guardians" that'll give them a decent buff and I imagine webway assaults would be a before game strategem for them, would be nice if it allowed a detachment to start in reserve even for 3CP that gives you a good reason to run large units of guardians to land in your opponents face.
I really hope that this is not the sort of thing they do with it. That's very destructive of any sort of creativity in list building. It's just: if you want to bring Guardians use Ulthwe, and if you want to bring Jetbikes use Saim-Hann. The stratagem, sure, and that's been how the other codices have handled this -- a subfaction's favored units or weapons tend to get a stratagem that buffs them rather than a very restrictive tactic. But I'd much prefer Craftworld Attributes that make most of the units play differently from Craftworld to Craftworld. The design challenge is to come up with Attributes that make the whole army play a bit differently and which also capture the flavor of each Craftworld, but I think this is mostly doable.
What I'm most curious about - is if they'll actually be the first codex to change battlefield roles (something unseen so far). While I hope it's not the Craftworld tactic, Iyanden really does need to be able to field an all-wraith army...meaning Wraithguard will have to be troops for Iyanden, etc.
Same thing with Saim-Hann and to a lesser extent Biel Tan. While you can easily build an army very similar to this, it would be much more fluffy to actually allow X units to count as troops, etc. I am sadly suspect that Craftworld traits may simply mirror the rather boring Chapter Tactics and we'll see very little that's new or exciting. Would love to be proved wrong.
Elbows wrote: What I'm most curious about - is if they'll actually be the first codex to change battlefield roles (something unseen so far). While I hope it's not the Craftworld tactic, Iyanden really does need to be able to field an all-wraith army...meaning Wraithguard will have to be troops for Iyanden, etc.
Same thing with Saim-Hann and to a lesser extent Biel Tan. While you can easily build an army very similar to this, it would be much more fluffy to actually allow X units to count as troops, etc. I am sadly suspect that Craftworld traits may simply mirror the rather boring Chapter Tactics and we'll see very little that's new or exciting. Would love to be proved wrong.
I mean, you can already bring an all-Wraith army. You're not required to bring Troops. It'd be fitting for Iyanden to be able to bring Wraithguard as Troops -- much like how Emperor's Children and World Eaters can bring Noise Marines and Berzerkers as Troops -- but this would be a pretty sad substitute for a Tactic. It amounts to: "you get a couple extra CP for your Vanguard Detachment". And Objective Secured, I guess, but still.
Elbows wrote: What I'm most curious about - is if they'll actually be the first codex to change battlefield roles (something unseen so far). While I hope it's not the Craftworld tactic, Iyanden really does need to be able to field an all-wraith army...meaning Wraithguard will have to be troops for Iyanden, etc.
Same thing with Saim-Hann and to a lesser extent Biel Tan. While you can easily build an army very similar to this, it would be much more fluffy to actually allow X units to count as troops, etc. I am sadly suspect that Craftworld traits may simply mirror the rather boring Chapter Tactics and we'll see very little that's new or exciting. Would love to be proved wrong.
Saim-Hann and Biel-Tan are easy enough to do. Vanguard and Outrider Detachments are 3 Elites and 3 Fast Attacks, respectively.
Guard, as an example, have it so that you Leman Russes in a Spearhead(Heavy Support) Detachment gain Objective Secured when your army is Battle-Forged. You just need a line about Jetbikes and Aspect Warriors getting whatever the Eldar equivalent of Objective Secured is when taken in those Detachments.
I fully expect Wraithguard to become Troops. It's the only way that the new Start Collecting set makes sense I feel. And it really does seem like they're trying to ensure the Start Collecting sets can field a Patrol Detachment(1 HQ 1 Troops everything else is optional) from the outset.
Elbows wrote: What I'm most curious about - is if they'll actually be the first codex to change battlefield roles (something unseen so far). While I hope it's not the Craftworld tactic, Iyanden really does need to be able to field an all-wraith army...meaning Wraithguard will have to be troops for Iyanden, etc.
Same thing with Saim-Hann and to a lesser extent Biel Tan. While you can easily build an army very similar to this, it would be much more fluffy to actually allow X units to count as troops, etc. I am sadly suspect that Craftworld traits may simply mirror the rather boring Chapter Tactics and we'll see very little that's new or exciting. Would love to be proved wrong.
The Chaos codex allowed you to take Berserkers as troops if you had a world water detachment. So it’s not entirely unseen.
Good point, I'd forgotten about the cult troops in the CSM book. As mentioned above, I just hope swapping certain units to troops isn't part of the Craftworld trait.
In theory, yes. If you play Open War --- any models are legal and your force organization doesn't matter. I don't think any of the SC boxes allow you enough to form an actual detachment, so it's kind of irrelevant really.
The new SC is definitely a great set of models to get started with - they're all useful.
Why are people forgetting the Vanguard detachment in regards to the Iyanden Start Collecting box? All models in that box fit into that detachment, so why would we assume WG are going to be Troops?
While I would love for WG to be Iyanden Troops and Windriders to be Saim-Hann Troops, I won't be holding my breath. This was the entire point of creating the varied detachments What I'd like to see is Autarchs giving extra CPs to compensate for having to use lesser detachments to represent certain CWs. I know Autarchs are basically Captains, but considering how much old an Aeldari can be compared to a Marine, I don't think is it too much to add an extra CP due to sheer battlefield experience. Guilliman give 3CPs after all.
Elbows wrote: In theory, yes. If you play Open War --- any models are legal and your force organization doesn't matter. I don't think any of the SC boxes allow you enough to form an actual detachment, so it's kind of irrelevant really.
The new SC is definitely a great set of models to get started with - they're all useful.
Patrol Detachments are 1 HQ and 1 Troop.
All of the current Start Collectings except for the Eldar one let you field 1 HQ and 1 Troop with something else added in(an Elite, Heavy Support, or whatever else).
Galef wrote: Why are people forgetting the Vanguard detachment in regards to the Iyanden Start Collecting box? All models in that box fit into that detachment, so why would we assume WG are going to be Troops?
While I would love for WG to be Iyanden Troops and Windriders to be Saim-Hann Troops, I won't be holding my breath.
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War walkers and Wraithlords are heavy support, while WG are elite.
To make it a legal detachment, you need to move the WG to troop or HS.
Galef wrote: Why are people forgetting the Vanguard detachment in regards to the Iyanden Start Collecting box? All models in that box fit into that detachment, so why would we assume WG are going to be Troops?
While I would love for WG to be Iyanden Troops and Windriders to be Saim-Hann Troops, I won't be holding my breath.
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Vanguard Detachment requires 3 Elites in order to function.
Galef wrote: Why are people forgetting the Vanguard detachment in regards to the Iyanden Start Collecting box? All models in that box fit into that detachment, so why would we assume WG are going to be Troops?
While I would love for WG to be Iyanden Troops and Windriders to be Saim-Hann Troops, I won't be holding my breath.
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Vanguard Detachment requires 3 Elites in order to function.
It's not clear to me the new book will have all of the classic craftworlds. The article mentions the classic 5, but goes on to say this version will be a spiritual successor, not a carbon copy.
Kendo wrote: It's not clear to me the new book will have all of the classic craftworlds. The article mentions the classic 5, but goes on to say this version will be a spiritual successor, not a carbon copy.
I wanna say that I saw somewhere the book will have rules for seven Craftworlds, which will put it on par with CSM Legions on the amount of special rules for their Craftworld Keyword. I'll do my best to see where I saw this little tidbit.
EDIT: The Craftworld Focus has clarified five Craftworld Special rules, so I guess I just imagined seven in a fever dream.
Also, holy cow. Only ever losing one model to morale tests is gonna be great for Iyanden.
It’d hardly be an Iyanden army without some ghost warriors, would it? Wraithblades in the new codex are just as deadly as they’ve always been, with some added bonuses. Smaller Wraith units have received an additional point of Toughness in the new codex, bringing Wraithguard and Wraithblades up to Toughness 6 and Wraithlords to Toughness 8, making them markedly more resilient against incoming enemy fire What’s more, they don’t even cost any more points!
The perfect accompaniment to a Spirit Host unit is a Spiritseer. These guys are already an efficient HQ choice for a Craftworlds army, and have even seen a reduction in cost, now a steal at 45 points, only 10 more than a Warlock! Use yours to cast the new psychic power Empower on your Wraithblades, trigger the Psytronome of Iyanden and throw in the Guided Wraithsight Stratagem and you’ll be dishing out 60 Strength 7 AP -3 attacks, hitting on a 4+ with a reroll and D3 damage apiece – enough to scrap even a Baneblade in close combat./quote]
That Attribute seems pretty disappointing to me, but then compared to other people I'm also a lot less positive about the Valhallan doctrine or whichever Guard regiment this is a slightly better version of (same for vehicles). Though this is confirmation that these will just be Chapter Tactics type things, and also it looks like they apply to more than just infantry and bikes, which is nice. The text outright says this applies to the Wraithknight, and strongly suggests it applies to tanks too.
Like, you still never want to field big Guardian squads, because morale is not the problem with Guardian squads, unless they're now priced more like Guardsmen. The problem with Guardians is that they're 8 point T3 5+ bodies; they could be fearless and you still wouldn't want a big unit of 20 of them. This doesn't seem like it does much at all for Wraithguard, since you basically never lose more than 1 of them to morale anyway.
It's really nice to see that the Spiritseer is 45 points. This is not quite as good as a Primaris Psyker but it'd be very playable with current rules. Warlocks appear to be about the same price still, so unless they got a significant buff they're still garbage (but then surely they got a buff if Spiritseers now only cost 10 points more, since Spiritseers are currently far superior).
The Wraith buffs are nice. T5 to T6 is not a huge jump, but it's very helpful against heavy bolters and assault cannons. Likewise T7 to T8 is generally not a huge deal but it'll help some against bolters and a few S7/S8 weapons.
Wraithknights which ignore wounds until 17 are inflicted? Strong.
Wraithlords at Tough 8? Strong.
Wraithguard at Tough 6? Strong.
Maybe not an amazing army list, but damn. Expect to see a lot of Wraith units in the future (especially with the new SC box). The T8 Wraithlord makes up for its sub-par performance (because it degraded when lower-dreads didn't).
I think the best use case for the Attribute is actually Aspects, which is kind of weird. But 10-man units of Aspects are generally pretty vulnerable to morale while being great targets for buff powers. Shining Spears and Shadow Spectres in particular seem like potentially strong Iyanden units, since they benefit so much from Guide, Fortune, and (if this is still possible) Word of the Phoenix.
The stratagem also seems quite solid, and is the only thing that really seems to push Iyanden towards Wraiths. 12" is a lot easier to manage than 6", and re-rolling all hits on potentially multiple units is a big payoff.
Dionysodorus wrote: That Attribute seems pretty disappointing to me, but then compared to other people I'm also a lot less positive about the Valhallan doctrine or whichever Guard regiment this is a slightly better version of (same for vehicles). Though this is confirmation that these will just be Chapter Tactics type things, and also it looks like they apply to more than just infantry and bikes, which is nice. The text outright says this applies to the Wraithknight, and strongly suggests it applies to tanks too.
Like, you still never want to field big Guardian squads, because morale is not the problem with Guardian squads, unless they're now priced more like Guardsmen. The problem with Guardians is that they're 8 point T3 5+ bodies; they could be fearless and you still wouldn't want a big unit of 20 of them. This doesn't seem like it does much at all for Wraithguard, since you basically never lose more than 1 of them to morale anyway.
It's really nice to see that the Spiritseer is 45 points. This is not quite as good as a Primaris Psyker but it'd be very playable with current rules. Warlocks appear to be about the same price still, so unless they got a significant buff they're still garbage (but then surely they got a buff if Spiritseers now only cost 10 points more, since Spiritseers are currently far superior).
The Wraith buffs are nice. T5 to T6 is not a huge jump, but it's very helpful against heavy bolters and assault cannons. Likewise T7 to T8 is generally not a huge deal but it'll help some against bolters and a few S7/S8 weapons.
That trait will help large squads of Wraithblades and makes Wraithlords and Knights, as well as all of the Falcon chassis vehicles much better. I might even play my Lynx again. You'r right though that it does nothing for Wraithguard. You're also assuming that Guardians will stay at 8pts each, I'd hope they drop to 6 myself, which would make 20 man squads much more viable (though probably something Ulthwe will make more use of).
I'm actually curious - because they have not stated what units will benefit from the Craftworld traits. They mention the Wraithknight (and tanks), so it seems perhaps more of an Imperial Guard depth trait - vs. Space Marines (sorry...they're taking it in the pants lately).
I'd like to see what units are impacted.
PS: The Iyanden trait is going to make Wave Serpents extra-filthy if they're not properly nerfed.
That trait will help large squads of Wraithblades and makes Wraithlords and Knights, as well as all of the Falcon chassis vehicles much better. I might even play my Lynx again. You'r right though that it does nothing for Wraithguard. You're also assuming that Guardians will stay at 8pts each, I'd hope they drop to 6 myself, which would make 20 man squads much more viable (though probably something Ulthwe will make more use of).
Like I said, I know that other people are a lot more positive on the similar Guard doctrine, but I really don't see why this is that helpful for big stuff. In my experience, at most two but almost always just one of my big units uses a damaged profile on some but not most of my turns. The effect of this Attribute on an army with a bunch of Wraithlords or knights is basically: "sometimes one of them gets 1-2" of extra movement and +1 to hit for a turn". It's a little more pronounced with the grav tanks since there it's 4" of extra movement instead, but still this is the sort of effect that would maybe be worth only a couple of CP over the course of a game.
The effect on infantry is definitely a lot stronger. I am not sure that you would want big units of Guardians with this trait even at 6 points, though. Every reasonable army is going to be prepared to deal with at least 60 or so Conscripts who also only lose one model to morale, or large numbers of Infantry in separate squads which are fairly morale-resistant. Guardians die just the same and they're actually less likely to get to do any effective shooting before they get hit with a bunch of bolters.
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Elbows wrote: I'm actually curious - because they have not stated what units will benefit from the Craftworld traits. They mention the Wraithknight (and tanks), so it seems perhaps more of an Imperial Guard depth trait - vs. Space Marines (sorry...they're taking it in the pants lately).
I'd like to see what units are impacted.
PS: The Iyanden trait is going to make Wave Serpents extra-filthy if they're not properly nerfed.
It's not like Wave Serpents have good firepower for their cost anyway. They're also in competition with things like the now-cheaper Valkyrie, which moves farther and also lets units disembark after it moves. But yes, it'll be interesting to see what gets Attributes and what doesn't. With Guard, there was a natural way to exclude flyers, which may have been important. Presumably Eldar get it on infantry and bikes, and apparently grav tanks and wraithlords/knights, but it'd be surprising to see flyers and things like the FWLoW flyers get it (this might explain the new WRAITH CONSTRUCT keyword, since the Hemlock shares SPIRIT HOST in the index).
A Wave Serpent is far better points-wise at the moment than anything else in the Grav Tank arsenal. They're frustratingly strong if you spam them. It's not uncommon to see 5 of them in a game at my local club --- that's not easy to take down with most armies. I think they're a bit broken at the moment given their cost.
Elbows wrote: A Wave Serpent is far better points-wise at the moment than anything else in the Grav Tank arsenal. They're frustratingly strong if you spam them. It's not uncommon to see 5 of them in a game at my local club --- that's not easy to take down with most armies. I think they're a bit broken at the moment given their cost.
I mean, they're about the same as new Valkyries in cost and durability and offensive potential. They're maybe a little more durable (vs shooting) but they're much worse as transports. They're a bit more durable than Razorbacks per point while being far less shooty. New tauroxes are basically hugely better versions of Sentinels. This is just how lots of transports are in 8th; they're some of the best units in their armies. But yes, they're a lot better than other grav tanks because other grav tanks are terrible.
Nobody is fielding Wave Serpents just to field Wave Serpents, even. People are bringing them in part to transport things, and often the stuff they're transporting is clearly paying more than what it should cost in a vacuum because it has access to a Serpent. Edit: I don't think a Serpent nerf would be crazy but it would probably need to come with big buffs to almost everything that can ride in them.
They're far better though, when equipped with the Eldar vehicle wargear...making them really damn good (and I don't think anyone uses them to actually transport stuff except during deployment). If you're playing power level - they didn't do any math to calculate running all four pieces of Eldar wargear...which someone does at my club.
That makes them monsters for 9 power or whatever...lol.
PS: I suppose I mean powerful for Eldar...which at the moment, suck. So take that with a grain of salt. It's one of the few potent units in the army till the Codex drops.
Elbows wrote: A Wave Serpent is far better points-wise at the moment than anything else in the Grav Tank arsenal. They're frustratingly strong if you spam them. It's not uncommon to see 5 of them in a game at my local club --- that's not easy to take down with most armies. I think they're a bit broken at the moment given their cost.
I agree that it might be frustrating, but it's definitely not "frustratingly strong." Just kind of annoying, imo. I usually run one or two.
Oh, I have two and don't mind running them, but I don't run them with all the free vehicle upgrades if I'm playing power. That's just a bit silly. Power-wise they need to remove the wargear options, or bump the cost of Wave Serpents --- or drop the cost of the actual tank versions, etc. The whole grav tank force needs fixin'.
PS: I'll bet money that Saim-Hann's craftworld trait will involve moving without heavy weapon penalties, etc.
I honestly don't know how the Elder Index played (some people told me it was fine, some told me it was weak) but I honestly don't care as long as it is balanced and on par with the previous codex armies. However langue in this new faction focus really makes em worry about power creep. GW outright says: "These guys are already an efficient HQ choice for a Craftworlds army, and have even seen a reduction in cost, now a steal at 45 points, only 10 more than a Warlock!". Now stop me if I am wrong (as I don't know how these units played) but saying a unit was efficient for their points and then reducing their points just doesn't seem right!?!?! That's now how you balance a game GW! If the unit is efficient then leave them alone as they are balanced! If they're too efficient then boost their points don't reduce them?
lolman1c wrote: I honestly don't know how the Elder Index played (some people told me it was fine, some told me it was weak) but I honestly don't care as long as it is balanced and on par with the previous codex armies. However langue in this new faction focus really makes em worry about power creep. GW outright says: "These guys are already an efficient HQ choice for a Craftworlds army, and have even seen a reduction in cost, now a steal at 45 points, only 10 more than a Warlock!". Now stop me if I am wrong (as I don't know how these units played) but saying a unit was efficient for their points and then reducing their points just doesn't seem right!?!?! That's now how you balance a game GW! If the unit is efficient then leave them alone as they are balanced! If they're too efficient then boost their points don't reduce them?
Assuming no other changes, Spiritseers are now very similar to Primaris Psykers except they're slightly more expensive and have a finicky buff that applies to certain of your units attacking enemies within 6" of the Spiritseer. Nobody was using them before. In general these Warhammer Community articles have tended to be more positive than is justified about basically everything they bring up -- their goal tends to be to excite players of the faction about the thing they're talking about. "This unit is no longer total garbage" is not something they're likely to say.
The index (particularly compared to codex armies) was rather weak, with a handful of decent units --- which you had to spam to really be useful.
The continuing issue is that you're fielding an army of Toughness three models which need to get within 12-18" of an enemy to kill some. (read: within charge range or rapid fire range of a very shooty version of the game). On top of that they're damn pricey (at least power-level wise) for what you get.
A comparison: 10 power level got you 10 swooping hawks (tough 3, 4+ armour, with fancy lasguns) or it gets you three obliteratos (3 wounds a piece, with great guns, and terminator armour). There was little comparison and survivability outside of stuffing everything in wave serpents. Tanks were generally a bit expensive but okay. Avatar was damn pricey for his performance...Warlocks are heinously weak/bad...and all psykers were laughable in close combat with piss-poor weaponry. Dreadnoughts were okay but degraded because of their 10 wounds so they were a little less useful than others.
Zero ability to really deal with horde armies. Just a bit frustrating to play unless you went for only a handful of units. I hope that's fixed in the Codex...but again, without being super-broken power creep (which is definitely the trend at the moment).
Dionysodorus wrote: "This unit is no longer total garbage" is not something they're likely to say.
Yes, when I read that line about Spiritseers I was thinking "that's a flat out lie". Maybe they'll be worth it with multiple changes, but as per Index rules I could never find a reason to bring a Spiritseer to buff 6" wraiths as opposed to a Autarch to buff 12" *everyone*.
Dionysodorus wrote: "This unit is no longer total garbage" is not something they're likely to say.
Yes, when I read that line about Spiritseers I was thinking "that's a flat out lie". Maybe they'll be worth it with multiple changes, but as per Index rules I could never find a reason to bring a Spiritseer to buff 6" wraiths as opposed to a Autarch to buff 12" *everyone*.
Truth be told Autarch buff is 6" too but there is a huge difference between buff units within 6, than buff units attacking enemies at 6" of the character as it forced you to bring the Spiritseer almost into melee range in order to be effective for similar point cost.
Add too the loss of the 2nd psy power from 7th and that explains why we ended with overcosted Spiritseers (they retained the price but lost the psy power) another proof of perfectly balanced index stats.
lolman1c wrote: GW outright says: "These guys are already an efficient HQ choice for a Craftworlds army, and have even seen a reduction in cost, now a steal at 45 points, only 10 more than a Warlock!". Now stop me if I am wrong (as I don't know how these units played) but saying a unit was efficient for their points and then reducing their points just doesn't seem right!?!?! That's now how you balance a game GW! If the unit is efficient then leave them alone as they are balanced! If they're too efficient then boost their points don't reduce them?
Lol, spiritseers.
They were completely and totally useless in the index, and were massively overpriced. At 45 points... They might actually be worth taking, just about. They're certainly better than an index warlock, which was even worse overpriced garbage. Hopefully warlocks either get a huge buff, or dropped to like 20 points.
Edit: if warlocks don't get changed, there is no point in taking one. For 10 points more you can take a spiritseer, which is what a warlock should be.
If spiritseers gain the ability to take a jet bike, that would be interesting. Probably not though.
Yep, and the "made to order" is basically a week or so they'll take orders - then that's it. They produce what was ordered/sold and ship it in around 3-4 weeks. Produced in metal (hell yes) and then that's it...no more.
Honestly, short of vehicles degrading I'm not seeing a ton of reason to go Iyanden (though we obviously haven't seen everything laid out yet). But just the normal buffs to Wraithguard and Wraithlords is pretty massive. That alone will make them more potent/useful.
I'm still waiting for the Saim-Hann and Ulthwe faction focus before I start really getting hyped. I want my bikes to be somewhat competitive again (since they have been the core of my army since 4th ed).
I get a sinking feeling that the Saim-Hann traits will be more like White Scars and thus not very good. But the Black Guardian rules might be good for them.
BG Windriders are still on the GW website, so it is likely that <Black Guardian> applies to all units with the <Guardian> keyword (which Windriders have).
Deep-strike shenanigans would at least make they playable since they wouldn't get wiped before getting a turn.
Elbows wrote: Honestly, short of vehicles degrading I'm not seeing a ton of reason to go Iyanden (though we obviously haven't seen everything laid out yet). But just the normal buffs to Wraithguard and Wraithlords is pretty massive. That alone will make them more potent/useful.
Also worth to notice the Wraith Toughness buff seems to refer as a built in codex Datasheets and not specific to Iyanden only.
So i hope some other relics, stratagems or even Psychics disciplines can bring something else to the table for Iyanden.
Elbows wrote: Honestly, short of vehicles degrading I'm not seeing a ton of reason to go Iyanden (though we obviously haven't seen everything laid out yet). But just the normal buffs to Wraithguard and Wraithlords is pretty massive. That alone will make them more potent/useful.
Also worth to notice the Wraith Toughness buff seems to refer as a built in codex Datasheets and not specific to Iyanden only.
So i hope some other relics, stratagems or even Psychics disciplines can bring something else to the table for Iyanden.
We know the Iyanden relic already -- it was shown in the announcement of the codex. And the stratagem is here. It is possible that there are Craftworld-specific psychic powers, but probably the only thing we're missing is their warlord trait. And it's still possible that they make Wraithguard Troops, but you'd think that would be mentioned in this article.
I will take making WG objective secured. I run spiritseers now for cheap smite spam and HQ. Put the Autuarch on bike and move the +1 by bubble around to where it is needed. I have had good success running Index biel-tan and can’t wait until Friday!
We know the Iyanden relic already -- it was shown in the announcement of the codex. And the stratagem is here. It is possible that there are Craftworld-specific psychic powers, but probably the only thing we're missing is their warlord trait. And it's still possible that they make Wraithguard Troops, but you'd think that would be mentioned in this article.
I think you found the best way to go about making things troops. Having it as the warlord trait would mean you couldn't bring a battalion of Iyanden troop Wraithguard with a battalion of Biel-tan troops aspect warriors as you only get one warlord trait. Or they could come up with some sort of restriction for any rule changing things to troops.
How does it work in the chaos book? Can you take troop world eater bezerkers in one detachment and troop noise marines in a different Detachment in the same army?
Elbows wrote: Yep, and the "made to order" is basically a week or so they'll take orders - then that's it. They produce what was ordered/sold and ship it in around 3-4 weeks. Produced in metal (hell yes) and then that's it...no more.
Are you sure these are going to be metal and not Failcast? I am tempted by the Bonesinger and the Ranger, just because it is nice to add variety to a squad.
Korlandril wrote: How does it work in the chaos book? Can you take troop world eater bezerkers in one detachment and troop noise marines in a different Detachment in the same army?
Yup. Can technically even take troop WE zerkers and troop EC noisies in the same detachment, although that would make them miss out on their legion traits.
Elbows wrote: Yep, and the "made to order" is basically a week or so they'll take orders - then that's it. They produce what was ordered/sold and ship it in around 3-4 weeks. Produced in metal (hell yes) and then that's it...no more.
Are you sure these are going to be metal and not Failcast? I am tempted by the Bonesinger and the Ranger, just because it is nice to add variety to a squad.
I think the ones that have been done in resin will be in resin? I'm not buying any resin though so it would be a mistake to release any lol
OP is updated I will summarise the articles and make clear what's for an individual craftworld and what is your the entire codex. Will keep the made to order bit at top too so people don't miss out.
Elbows wrote: All of those miniatures were originally in metal - all of the previous made-to-order spans have been in metal.
And the fb page did say they were unsure if they would all be in metal. That's why I said the ones that had been done in resin I own finecast and a metal version so we will see what they do.
The Facebook guy doesn't seem to be all that well-informed.
Have there been any Made to Order events where they had minis that were previously mdistibuted in finecast? If so, and those were metal, then it seems overwhelmingly likely that these are all going to be metal as well.
Do the finecast versions of the older metal models use a different mold? I was always under the impression that for GW the main advantage of finecast was that it allowed them to keep using there existing tooling.
Elbows wrote: All of those miniatures were originally in metal - all of the previous made-to-order spans have been in metal.
And the fb page did say they were unsure if they would all be in metal. That's why I said the ones that had been done in resin I own finecast and a metal version so we will see what they do.
streetsamurai wrote: guess no new minis for eldar. Talk about an army stucked in the 90's
They're releasing Eldrad seperately for you.
CSM didn't even get a seperate Cypher release. We still have to buy the SM Triumvirate box to get hold of Cypher.
Though Eldrad was in a box set that is no longer avaliable. You can still buy Cypher and Eldar's own Ynarri Triumvirate box isn't getting their characters sold separately either.
Mmmpi wrote: I'm just hoping I don't have to buy another eldar triumvirate to get the ynnari rules.
If you've already got the Index then you have the Ynnari rules. I'm pretty sure the Triumvirate reboxing is just going to be exactly the same as the Eldar and Dark Eldar reboxing of recent months.
I'll hold my breath for a bit still, but our ghost warrior preview does not lift my spirit. Giving morale protection to wraith units, which are almost universally run in MSU, is almost as laughably blind to how they are used as is providing an increased to-hit bonus on units who primarily auto-hit. I get the desire to improve wraithblades, which are neat conceptually, but hitting power isn't their big lack: proper mobility, high point cost and the general weakness of melee is. Toughness 6 is nice, mostly against conscript and heavy bolter fire, but plasma and multiwound weapons is what they really need good protection against: I would have much preferred a 2+ save or a FNP instead. Wraithguard were solid before, so I guess anything that makes them better is good, but even then wraithguard are only decent by the standards of a typical army, standing out in Eldar land because most everything else is such nonsense. Wraithlords to 8 is also significant for the bolter fire, but they will need a big points reduction to be even remotely worth taking. I'd love for them to be, mind you, but it doesn't feel like it's in the cards after so many editions of being underwhelming. Similarly, wraithknights need a whole lot of love to even be brought into line with imperial knights...which, one should point out, aren't actually very good this edition either. You could probably shave 100 points off of a wraithknight and they wouldn't be a top tier unit. A lot of this is to do with the cost of our weapons, which are just overbearingly expensive.
I'm really looking for guardians to drop to 6 so we can have a reasonable troop choice, big drops in costs on wraithlords and wraithknights and some mobility fixes. I do dig he spirit seer fix, because I think having a wave serpent with 5 wraithguard and a spirit seer trucking along for support and smiting is just what I want for my ghost warriors. My hemlock flying overhead feels solid as well. Now I just need some medium and giant walkers to not suck butt. I tend to think wraithblades are a lost cause without some maaajor reworking. They just aren't the sort of unit that works.
I agree that a WL is the Eldar version of a Contemptor, but it's substantially cheaper when outfitted similarly. Forgoing the flamers alone makes it about 30 points cheaper than a Contemptor., and you might also want to leave off the Ghostglaive. With T8 on the WL, neither one jumps out to me as being significantly better than the other. Which may be a problem since no one is using Contemptors, but still.
They are pushing for themed armies though. So really only in Iyanden is the wraithlord good. Unless it has 1 HP remainng its never at its worse statline. For most of the the game it will be at its normal non degraded stats.
str00dles1 wrote: They are pushing for themed armies though. So really only in Iyanden is the wraithlord good. Unless it has 1 HP remainng its never at its worse statline. For most of the the game it will be at its normal non degraded stats.
I don't see much reason to think this will be true. Presumably all of the Attributes will affect the WL. Not degrading is nice but it's easy to imagine more valuable ones. For example, maybe one of the Craftworlds will get the Salamanders' tactic. It's actually pretty surprising just how unsuited Iyanden's Attribute is for a themed army -- it's basically useless for Wraithguard unless you're expecting to see 5+ of your 10-man squad get killed in a single turn, and then it's a fairly modest buff to WLs but is probably actually more useful for shooty grav tanks (assuming those are good now).
Please don't. None of your wishlisting is going to happen.
Maybe a price adjustment on guardians.
They've already said about wraithlords
they don’t even cost any more points!
That should not be read as "they're going to be 50 points cheaper each!"
They were talking about Wraithblades not Wraithlords in regards to being no more expensive, so thats a minimum 35pts for a S6, T6, 3W, Sv3+ infantry model with 4 attacks each on the charge with Swords. They have said nothing about any possible changes to Wraithlords so far other than the Iyanden trait meaning you have to take 8 wounds off them before they start to degrade.
Cephalobeard wrote: What would really make the Iyanden trait pants is if we see a decent price drop for Wraith Knights. Bring back 3-4 Wraith Knight Meta, boys.
I'd buy them. Zero shame.
I hope so... my Wraithknight has sat unpainted since I bought the Ghost Warriors box and it would be nice to ebay it for a decent price!
Cephalobeard wrote: What would really make the Iyanden trait pants is if we see a decent price drop for Wraith Knights. Bring back 3-4 Wraith Knight Meta, boys.
I'd buy them. Zero shame.
I hope so... my Wraithknight has sat unpainted since I bought the Ghost Warriors box and it would be nice to ebay it for a decent price!
I have 3 WKs that I bought back in early 6th ed when they were just Heavy Support MCs (and thus reasonable to take 2-3). Ever since 7th made them LoW GMCs, I've hardly been able to take more than 1 in all but the most extreme circumstances.
I'd really like to be able to take 2 in a casual game without being TFG, or spend half my army's points.
My only wish for this s codex is no super OP codex that make them terrors like every freaking edition before. Balanced sure, but if I have to play unbeatable eldar for another Edition I'm going to scream!
Elbows wrote: I have to agree that the Iyanden Craftworld trait is pretty pants...as it only buffs using other larger units.
This is what people kept whining about with Age of Sigmar and Battleshock not really being a perceived issue for Stormcast.
Until y'know, they realized that losing a 2-3 Wound model to Battleshock is a bit nastier than losing a bunch of little ones to the same thing.
But if you think it through, you'll see that WG are ld9 and almost always taken in units of 5. So you'd need to lose 4 models before the last model is even at risk of running on a 6.
So losing a 2-3 wound model was already so incredible rare, and in this particular case, you only lose 1 model regardless of use the Iyanden trait or not.
So the trait for Iyanden, the CW most famous for Wraith constructs, benefits units OTHER than Wraith-constructs. It's pants
Elbows wrote: I have to agree that the Iyanden Craftworld trait is pretty pants...as it only buffs using other larger units.
This is what people kept whining about with Age of Sigmar and Battleshock not really being a perceived issue for Stormcast.
Until y'know, they realized that losing a 2-3 Wound model to Battleshock is a bit nastier than losing a bunch of little ones to the same thing.
But if you think it through, you'll see that WG are ld9 and almost always taken in units of 5. So you'd need to lose 4 models before the last model is even at risk of running on a 6. So losing a 2-3 wound model was already so incredible rare, and in this particular case, you only lose 1 model regardless of use the Iyanden trait or not.
So the trait for Iyanden, the CW most famous for Wraith constructs, benefits units OTHER than Wraith-constructs. It's pants
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And what happens if you lose Wraithguard while your opponent has spent some time layering on LD reductions?
I kept thinking this same thing with regards to Stormcast early on. IF someone finds a way to throw on the Mortal Wounds and IF they have things which reduce your Leadership--it can get nasty quick for high wound, low-ish model count units.
Mind you--I'm not saying "SHUT UP AND ENJOY IT!". I'm saying that as codices come out, we're going to see some expanding of game mechanics. What seems pants now might have a use later on.
Every rule is useful are some point in the game, even Soulblaze in 7th "could" finish off a unit. But when a rule is ONLY useful given an ideal situation that doesn't come up often, it by default is not a great rule.
What makes it worse is that the Iyanden trait is actually a decent rule....just for Guardians and Tanks, not as much for Wraiths. So it will encourage "Iyanden" lists that don't actually look like "Iyanden" lists
Regarding the Ulthwe faction focus: Why is there no "Webway Assualt"?
Okay, so here we have apparent confirmation that Attributes apply to even flyers, which is a first.
Ulthwe gets the reliable Iron Hands tactic. 6+ FNP on everything. And a stratagem that gives a Guardian unit +1 to hit for a phase. Craftworlds in general have a stratagem to give Guardians a 4++ for a shooting phase. Eldrad is cheaper and Mind War is back, as essentially a targeted Smite. Guardians' price is unchanged.
The article talks like this Attribute is especially great for Guardians but of course where it's really welcome is on multi-wound units that now do a lot better in the face of multi-damage weaponry. This is probably what Iyanden should have gotten. Certainly you'd rather have this than Iyanden's Attribute on Wraithlords and Wraithknights, and obviously on Wraithguard. The Attribute is also great on Jetbikes and Shining Spears, since it makes them a lot more resilient in the face of overcharged plasma. The rest doesn't seem too impressive, though cheaper Eldrad is nice.
It's not clear if the Attribute stacks with Fortune, since this is not an ability that a model has. Sort of weird if it doesn't, since there's anti-synergy with Farseers there.
Mind war is set out to be one of the most top tier powers in the game thanks to it now dealing mortal wounds and being able to outright ignore character screening.
Superscope wrote: Mind war is set out to be one of the most top tier powers in the game thanks to it now dealing mortal wounds and being able to outright ignore character screening.
Almost every psychic discipline, and I believe every codex psychic discipline, has a similar sort of power.
A bit disappointed in the ulthwe trait to be honest, I was expecting maybe something to do with psychers or black guardians rather than just a 6+ FNP, the black guardian strategem is nice but that means one squad of guardians are only really black guardians per turn at the cost of CPs.
Regarding the Ulthwe faction focus: Why is there no "Webway Assualt"?
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They didn't mention it in the article, but on the facebook page someone asked about the webway assault. The response from the warhammer team was "We're on Twitch talking about the Codex on Friday, with some exclusive new content about the Codex (quite possibly including Webway portal)."
While this is not a definitive "yes" it does seem hopeful. If they say this and it turns out there's no webway assault, I would consider it a real d**k move uncharacteristic of what I've experienced from the online team in the past year.
By that preview the new Mind War can only target Characters. So much for stripping away a key special weapons trooper or heavy weapons team...If faced with an infantry squad, then it also means it can't take out the squad leader since those aren't Characters. While obviously designed to melt Characters, it would have been nice for this power to still be used against general targets.
These Craftworld Attributes are just odd as in not what one might intuitively expect for their theme. Ulthwe getting a resilience one (even if it is handwaved away as prescience) buffing even vehicles and wraith constructs, while Iyanden gets a morale one.
Superscope wrote: Mind war is set out to be one of the most top tier powers in the game thanks to it now dealing mortal wounds and being able to outright ignore character screening.
Almost every psychic discipline, and I believe every codex psychic discipline, has a similar sort of power.
Most of them debuff or deal a mortal wound in a radius though. Mind war just selects a character and melts them from the inside with ALOT of mortal wounds. Eldrad + Mind war = Fried support character.
Lets not forget you got many ways to buff the amount of mortal wounds that character will take as well. Hemlock + Horrify is -3 off the bat. Only high end characters will be walking away alive.
A large price cut on Eldrad + new powers might make him pretty good.
Mind war is nice, and with some luck the harlies and DE codex will have more Ld debuffs (and additional ld-based attacks).
But when I hear that a 6+ FNP is statistically better on larger units, it makes me worried about the designers' understanding of the game.
Mind War is a terrible Psychic power. To be really effective you need to build a significant portion of your list around it and get everything where you want it to be, and last editions Freakshow list proved that if you want Ld debuff and attack tactics to work, you need to have multiple sources for both the debuff and attack. I see no reason at all why you would ever take this over Guide, Doom or Fortune, all vastly more useful and easier to cast abilities.
Superscope wrote: Mind war is set out to be one of the most top tier powers in the game thanks to it now dealing mortal wounds and being able to outright ignore character screening.
Almost every psychic discipline, and I believe every codex psychic discipline, has a similar sort of power.
Most of them debuff or deal a mortal wound in a radius though. Mind war just selects a character and melts them from the inside with ALOT of mortal wounds. Eldrad + Mind war = Fried support character.
Lets not forget you got many ways to buff the amount of mortal wounds that character will take as well. Hemlock + Horrify is -3 off the bat. Only high end characters will be walking away alive.
No, most psychic disciplines have a very similar sort of targeted Smite. Chaos has Infernal Gaze, which is WC5 and averages 1.5 mortal wounds on any target, including characters. Space Marines have a very similar-to-MW WC6 power that deals d3 mortal wounds if you win the roll-off and 1 if you tie. Imperial Guard have Psychic Maelstrom, which is WC7 and averages 1.77 mortal wounds.
It's true that Eldar have some ways to buff the result. Hemlocks are good. It is hard to believe that it will make sense to bring Horrify (which is only -1 to Ld), unless you're planning on using a Spiritseer or Warlock for Smite spam and bring it along just in case. Of course, SMs can do something similar with their power. Mind War only expects ~1 mortal wound against an equal Ld target and 1.55 against a target with 1 less Ld. It's a little better than the similar SM power except against high-Ld targets. You need to be targeting something with 2 less Ld before it's better than what an Astropath can do.
Nobody will stop the mighty GW's copy and paste!!! ...
guys as soon as I start thinking that gw's game developers are becoming better than a bunch of monkeys they do something to demostrate it's bs....
yanden best unit wraithguard...sinergy of this unit with their trait...0 , sinergy with ulthue' trait much much better
of course exactly the other way around for ulthue' guardians.
their brain is completely fried
To be fair, the Iyanden Attribute isn't actually useful for Guardians given what we've seen so far -- this article seems to make clear that they didn't go down in points, so it's not like you're going to deploy 20 of them on the table. Mostly the Iyanden one just seems pretty bad compared to Ulthwe. I can't actually come up with a real unit that I'd want to use which the Iyanden Attribute is better for, other than the ones that the Ulthwe one just doesn't work with, like Hemlocks (of course, the Iyanden Attribute does very little for them anyway).
I think the curious thing is that Iyanden's trait is such a good buff to vehicles and flyers and large squads...so while it helps Wraithlords and Wraithknights it doesn't feel very fluffy at all.
6+ feel no paint for Ulthwe is pretty damn strong, but again I see no fluff behind it at all (our Farseers told us to duck at the last minute? I guess...).
As mentioned this is unfortunately very copy/paste and I'm not seeing a ton of logic behind it. It's nice that they'll be more potent than the rather weak Index, but I'd trade all the power for more thematic rules.
Marfuzzo wrote: Nobody will stop the mighty GW's copy and paste!!! ...
guys as soon as I start thinking that gw's game developers are becoming better than a bunch of monkeys they do something to demostrate it's bs....
yanden best unit wraithguard...sinergy of this unit with their trait...0 , sinergy with ulthue' trai much much better
of course exactly the other way around for ulthue' guardians.
their brain is completely fried
The use for Wraithguard is it gives better incentive to go above 5 members in a unit, which is a plus when Iyanden fluff encourages the idea of running an army where your spiritseer is the only non-wraith model on the board.
Dionysodorus wrote: To be fair, the Iyanden Attribute isn't actually useful for Guardians given what we've seen so far -- this article seems to make clear that they didn't go down in points, so it's not like you're going to deploy 20 of them on the table. Mostly the Iyanden one just seems pretty bad compared to Ulthwe. I can't actually come up with a real unit that I'd want to use which the Iyanden Attribute is better for, other than the ones that the Ulthwe one just doesn't work with, like Hemlocks (of course, the Iyanden Attribute does very little for them anyway).
Speak for you
Actually in my latest games I fielded always a unit of 20... and it went always quite good creating a nice bubble antideep strike, and with two eldar missile luncher + shuriken a nice volume of fire as well.
but in almost all the matches I spent 2 cps to autopass a morale check...with that trait I wouldn't, so I keep thinking that the yanden one guardians wise is much much better
changemod wrote: The use for Wraithguard is it gives better incentive to go above 5 members in a unit, which is a plus when Iyanden fluff encourages the idea of running an army where your spiritseer is the only non-wraith model on the board.
Considering only 6 WG fit into a Serpent, the Iyanden trait does nothing to incentivize players to take more than the minimum unit. M5" and short range guns pretty much requires a transport. So again, Iyanden trait has little to no synergy with Wraiths.
changemod wrote: The use for Wraithguard is it gives better incentive to go above 5 members in a unit, which is a plus when Iyanden fluff encourages the idea of running an army where your spiritseer is the only non-wraith model on the board.
Considering only 6 WG fit into a Serpent, the Iyanden trait does nothing to incentivize players to take more than the minimum unit. M5" and short range guns pretty much requires a transport. So again, Iyanden trait has little to no synergy with Wraiths.
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Well, speak for yourself. I'm aware of the limitation, but I'd not be spamming transports if I did a wraith theme list. They seem very out of theme and severely cut down your model count.
Marfuzzo wrote: Nobody will stop the mighty GW's copy and paste!!! ...
guys as soon as I start thinking that gw's game developers are becoming better than a bunch of monkeys they do something to demostrate it's bs....
yanden best unit wraithguard...sinergy of this unit with their trait...0 , sinergy with ulthue' trai much much better
of course exactly the other way around for ulthue' guardians.
their brain is completely fried
The use for Wraithguard is it gives better incentive to go above 5 members in a unit, which is a plus when Iyanden fluff encourages the idea of running an army where your spiritseer is the only non-wraith model on the board.
The Ulthwe Attribute is almost always going to be a lot better for a 10-man WG unit even in pretty ideal circumstances for the Iyanden one. The Iyanden Attribute averages 0.167 fewer lost WG if you've already lost 5, 0.5 fewer if you've lost 6, 0.83 fewer if 7, 0.67 fewer if 8, and no fewer if 9 or 10. But of course the Ulthwe Attribute means that when you otherwise would have lost 6 Wraithguard to enemy action, you've probably only lost 5 instead (unless you're taking, like, volcano cannon shots). And so where the Iyanden unit would have lost 6 and then expects to lose another 0.5 to morale, the Ulthwe unit has only lost 5 and then expects to lose another 0.5 to morale.
And of course if your 10-man WG unit is taking 5+ casualties in a single turn you probably have bigger problems than one additional model running away.
So, right now we're looking at another copy/paste codex without a whole lot of regard for flavour and some real underwhelming stuff popping out so far.
btw since we understood it's gonna be a copy and paste in any case what do you bet for the rest?
I'd say
saim-han: white scars/black templars
biel tan: the one saim-han doesn't get
alaitoc: raven guard
I
I don't own any now, and have only ever owned the metal ones back in the day. I'm not sure why this is point to latch on to though. This only supports my argument that no one is really being neglected here. They are just trying to release all of the codices as quickly as possible, and it puzzles me as to why people feel some sort of bitter entitlement to new models during this book release surge.
of course it does. Just pretend I wasn't here
