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Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 10:39:53


Post by: Mymearan


---Feb 18, Made to Order---






---November 25th---
New Orlocks preview






New hired guns


---November 15th---
Goliath tactics
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/15/tactica-house-goliath-nov-15gw-homepage-post-2/

Regimental Standard: Attention, Hive Citizen!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/15/regimental-standard-attention-hive-citizen/

---November 13---
Escher tactics
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/13/tactica-house-escher-nov-13gw-homepage-post-2/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/13/coming-soon-beastman-underhive/


---November 8th---
Black Library Necromunda reprints
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/08/necromunda-classic-stories-new-editions/

---November 5th---




---October 27th---




—�October 26th—�
Website is live!

https://necromunda.com/

THE GAME

Prepare For Battle
Welcome to the underhive, Juve. As a new recruit to one of the many hive gangs fighting for territory, for supplies or just to survive, it’s time to gather your fellow gangers around you, pick an opponent and head into the depths. But remember – the enemy could be around the next corner or waiting in the shadows behind any doorway, so keep an eye out, and always watch your back…
Before playing their first game, each player will need to assemble their fighters (and ideally paint them!), so that each one is carrying the appropriate equipment. The assembly guide included in the box shows how to assemble each fighter so that they match up with one of the Ironlords or Carrion Queens Fighter cards.

Scenarios
Whether you’re fighting a skirmish in ancient tunnels, pushing into the territory of a rival gang or even making a last stand in your own stronghold, you’d best pay attention to your goals, Juve… or risk losing everything.
Each game of Necromunda is defined by the scenario you choose to play. These range from brief but bloody chance encounters between rival gangers to full-scale raids deep into enemy territory. Games can be linked together into campaigns in which your gang grows and accumulates wealth.
The scenarios in the Necromunda: Underhive box focus on confrontations fought in the labyrinthine tunnels of the lower hive cities where many newly-founded gangs first seek to establish themselves. Once your gang has gained some notoriety, the Necromunda: Gang War expansion will allow you to take the action into the open spaces of the manufactory domes above.

Zone Mortalis
These tunnels are no place for cowards, Juve. Dark, cramped and filled with horrors, they’re as dangerous as your rival gangs, and make sure that only the strongest of us survive…
In the Necromunda: Underhive box you’ll find a wealth of tiles representing the Zone Mortalis, the deadly tunnels beneath Hive Primus. These can be configured in a variety of ways, and the included doors, barricades, booby traps and other scenery mean you can create endlessly variable battlefields to fight over.

THE SETTING

What nightmare are these hive worlds?
In these places where man has been allowed to grow unchecked, teeming billions infest the vast hive cities. Even here the press of humanity is not strong enough to turn back the madness, or deflect the distaff forces of Chaos, heresy and death. Life is cheap. The bullet and the grenade are kings. Neither day nor night touches the billions of souls trapped in this nightmarish world. For them, there is just the unblinking septic gloom of ancient fluorescence. The putrid atmosphere of the underhive is stained with the dark patina of age. A brown haze fills air which has been recycled a million million times and offers the inhabitants but the meanest measure of life it can without choking them.
Beware the shadows of the hive, where only the strongest endure…

Empire in the Stars
The Imperium of Mankind stretches across the galaxy, encompassing over a million habitable worlds and untold billions of the Emperor’s subjects. It is the most extensive and populous empire that has ever existed in the history of humanity, and it is ruled as it has been for the last ten thousand years by the Divine Champion and Protector of the human race, the God-Emperor of Mankind.
The Emperor has long since ceased to live in any normal sense. Ten thousand years ago, following His titanic battle against the rebel Warmaster Horus, Primarch and Arch-champion of Chaos, His mutilated and barely-alive body was installed inside a sophisticated life-support machine known as the Golden Throne. The Emperor can no longer speak and it is doubtful if He comprehends events which take place in the material universe, as His powerful mind stalks through that nefarious region of pure energy known as the Realm of Chaos, staving off the enemies of Mankind. The actual administration of the Imperium is therefore undertaken by a vast bureaucracy known as the Adeptus Terra – the Priesthood of Earth.

Hive Worlds
Hive worlds are planets whose industrial output, while technologically far cruder than that of a Forge World of the Adeptus Mechanicus, nonetheless feeds the Imperium’s unquenchable hunger for base manufactured goods. They utilise vast towering metal cities intended to maximise the exploitation of both natural resources and manpower, and invariably, the surfaces of such worlds are polluted wastelands, ashen plains made barren by generations of mining and used as dumping grounds for the toxic byproducts of industry. Their populations are densely concentrated, their lives a short and miserable toil unless they reject it entirely and throw in their lot with the numerous gangs and other outcasts that exist in the cracks.

The World of Necromunda
Founded long ago in the depths of the Dark Age of Technology, Necromunda was brought into the Light of the Emperor by the Imperial Fists Legion during the Great Crusade. It is said that the ash wastes from which the great hives rise are a by-product of the devastation wrought upon the world during its brief defiance of the coming of the Imperium, but the truth is lost beneath the toxic plains.
Necromunda is a world of mines, factories, refineries and processing plants. The planet is a vast powerhouse of industry, making thousands and thousands of different items for use throughout nearby planetary systems, and nothing which can contribute to the planet’s output has been left untouched.

The Underhive
Necromunda is host to several thousand hive cities, some vast in scale and home to billions, others decrepit and populated only by the dead. Below a hive’s functioning levels lies a honeycomb of ancient domes, tunnels, ruins and structures from Necromunda’s long-dead past. These ruins lie at the very bottom of each city, below the clan-dominated manufactory zones and the ash wastes: they are the undercities, the oldest and deepest parts of Necromunda’s hives.
These undercity zones – called by most the ‘underhive’ – often predate the construction of the hive above by many centuries, even millennia. They are remnants of Necromunda’s true cities, built before the planet’s natural ecology was destroyed, when there were no encroaching ash wastes, and it is quite possible that the remains of the colony vessels that first brought Mankind to the planet still lie beneath some hives.

The Great Houses
Necromunda is ruled by a small number of factions of incredibly wealthy and powerful bodies known as the Great Houses. The Great Houses are primarily investors – they make nothing and provide no service. Subservient to these are the Clan Houses, who maintain the vast manufacturing base of Necromunda. Every House has its own cultural traditions, distinctive linguistic traits, codes of dress and behaviour, as well as unique concerns and aptitudes. Though distinct and often antagonistic towards one another, the Houses are also interdependent upon one another for the provision of specific and rare items or services.

Wars of the Underhive
The underhive lies beneath the hive cities, beyond the laws of House and hive. Its depth varies from a few hundred metres to several kilometres, and its extent is neither constant nor strictly delineated, the crumbling margins of the hive above simply melting into the upper zones of the underhive. It is a no-man’s land: the Badzones… downhive. Here an individual can make a new beginning or come to a sudden end, and everyone knows there are fortunes to be won in the depths for those willing to take the chance.

















NECROMUNDA: GANG WAR
The rules included with the Necromunda: Underhive boxed game cover battles set in the claustrophobic tunnels beneath the hives – but gangs also clash above ground, amid sprawling machinery that fills vast domes from ground to ceiling. Necromunda: Gang War is a set of rules that allow the players to use 3D terrain in their games, bringing a literal new dimension to their battles – and also an incredibly detailed campaign system, in which 2-6 (or more!) players develop their gangs, fight for territory and dominate the other Houses.

Roster:
https://necromunda.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/10/Necro_Roster_ENG.pdf

Rules Summary:
https://necromunda.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/10/Necro_Ref_ENG.pdf

Downloadable rules for old gangs:
(coming soon)

Each player’s gang is made up of a number of fighters, each of which is represented by a plastic miniature and a Fighter card. Necromunda: Underhive contains two sets of Fighter cards representing the Ironlords Goliath gang and the Carrion Queens Escher gang.
Each Fighter card is split into several areas:
1. The fighter’s name. If they are a Leader or Champion, it will also be shown here.
2. The fighter’s value, in credits.
3. The fighter’s characteristics.
4. The weapons the fighter is carrying.
5. Any skills the fighter may have.
6. Any equipment (including armour) carried by the fighter.

The game also includes a number of blank Fighter cards. We recommend that new players use the Ironlords or the Carrion Queens to start with, but experienced players might wish to generate their own gang, for which they will need to use the blank Fighter cards.

A number of dice are used in Necromunda to resolve the outcome of various actions. The game makes use of four different types of dice: D6, Injury Dice, Firepower Dice, and Scatter Dice.

Explosions, jets of flame and area effects are represented in the game by Blast markers and Flame templates, which are used to determine how many fighters are hit by such an attack or an effect.

Tactics cards can be used to represent the myriad tricks and schemes employed by the gangs. There are three types of Tactics cards:
Gang Tactics, which can be used by any gang
Escher Tactics, which can only be used by House Escher gangs
Goliath Tactics, which can only be used by House Goliath gangs

Two card Vision Arc templates are included (one for Escher fighters and one for Goliath fighters), which can be used to determine a fighter’s vision arc.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 10:40:47


Post by: zedmeister


Pre-order November 11th!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and here's the gang war rulebook:



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 10:57:36


Post by: Mr_Rose


OK, this looks like the thread to back, nice OP.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 10:59:32


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Cool


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:03:35


Post by: Oguhmek


I’m hyped! Already building terrain.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:05:37


Post by: zedmeister


Love the fact that they've got all the old Mark Gibbons Necromunda artwork in that vid above. Good stuff!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:07:11


Post by: Mymearan


 zedmeister wrote:
Love the fact that they've got all the old Mark Gibbons Necromunda artwork in that vid above. Good stuff!


Yep, that is some great art!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:41:14


Post by: Souleater


I hope the Gang War book will hit the streets on the same day as the base game.

I wasn't much interested in this but it looks great. There has been a surprising amount of interest on it locally.

Really hoping for some kick arse Spyrer models, too!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:41:35


Post by: Mymearan


Just had time to watch the videos... damn I'm so HYPED! The rule snippets they show all look great. Love the addition of cards and the new characteristics. Also... that voiceover lady is the best.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:45:54


Post by: the_scotsman


Duncan had me worried with those "And now, we're going to build Bonesnapper. We'll notice all the parts are numbered so you know what parts you need!"

But then they turned out to be customizable anyway. Whew!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:48:06


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Squeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

So much excite for this.

Wonder who made the music for the trailers and that? I'd buy it.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:48:10


Post by: porkuslime


so.. price? Number of models in a warband? (At work, cannot watch videos)


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:53:28


Post by: fresus


 porkuslime wrote:
so.. price? Number of models in a warband? (At work, cannot watch videos)

Haven't seen the price yet. But there are two full gangs, some terrain, and a lot of stuff to play (cards, tokens, cardboard tiles), so I don't think it will be cheap.

From the plastic sprues, it looks like you can swap the arms, but not pose them (the contact between the arms and the torso isn't flat). That's going to make it hard to magnetize, and not so easy to kitbash…


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:54:55


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I reckon £90-£95?

Remember, the boxed set is a complete game unto itself - albeit one we can expand upon if we wish.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:57:17


Post by: Souleater


I think £70 To £80

More stuff than BB but less than Overwatch.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:57:23


Post by: porkuslime


fresus wrote:
 porkuslime wrote:
so.. price? Number of models in a warband? (At work, cannot watch videos)

Haven't seen the price yet. But there are two full gangs, some terrain, and a lot of stuff to play (cards, tokens, cardboard tiles), so I don't think it will be cheap.

From the plastic sprues, it looks like you can swap the arms, but not pose them (the contact between the arms and the torso isn't flat). That's going to make it hard to magnetize, and not so easy to kitbash…

"Full gangs" means.. ??? not much.

I am curious if we get 10 models a side, 10 vs 8, 12 vs 15, etc..


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 11:58:32


Post by: Dysartes


 Mymearan wrote:
Just had time to watch the videos... damn I'm so HYPED! The rule snippets they show all look great. Love the addition of cards and the return of the old characteristics. Also... that voiceover lady is the best.


FTFY...


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 12:14:04


Post by: BigmekRatsmek


I'm interested in the Escher, but for the Goliath I'd more rather build some orks as stand-ins.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 12:18:48


Post by: NoggintheNog


Great stuff.

I'm a bit annoyed that the rules for actual necromunda (gang wars) is a separate buy, to me its the equivalent of day 1 DLC, but I'll be buying it all anyway.

I'm just waiting for pics of my Delaque gang now.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 12:25:48


Post by: Geifer


 porkuslime wrote:
fresus wrote:
 porkuslime wrote:
so.. price? Number of models in a warband? (At work, cannot watch videos)

Haven't seen the price yet. But there are two full gangs, some terrain, and a lot of stuff to play (cards, tokens, cardboard tiles), so I don't think it will be cheap.

From the plastic sprues, it looks like you can swap the arms, but not pose them (the contact between the arms and the torso isn't flat). That's going to make it hard to magnetize, and not so easy to kitbash…

"Full gangs" means.. ??? not much.

I am curious if we get 10 models a side, 10 vs 8, 12 vs 15, etc..


If the pictures are to be believed, ten per side with 5 unqiue poses per gang and a variety of arm and head options.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 12:30:03


Post by: Chopstick


Hopefully there're more weapon option than what show in the manual from the build video. Because I really hate the ugly lasgun the Escher had. The Irad Widow seem to have some kind of autopistol.

Or maybe I can just use the revolver pistol from Goliath for them instead


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 12:37:41


Post by: zamerion


Im really interesting to see the rules for yesteryear gangs, and what does it means..


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 12:43:54


Post by: zedmeister


zamerion wrote:
Im really interesting to see the rules for yesteryear gangs, and what does it means..


I'd bet we'll get some kind of made to order release...?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 12:46:47


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I suspect Scavvy and Outlander gangs to begin with.

But if we get Confrontation gangs, I'm buying them all!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:06:14


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Can we petition GW to have that chick do all of their voice overs from now on? She's incredible!

Anyway, yeah, this looks ace. The action mechanic seems like a great idea. Definitely liking the look of this.

Interested to see how they handle the 'Legacy Gangs' section.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:08:48


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I like the ploy cards.

Am I being a NooB with my positioning? Or am I up to something suitably sneaky?

Can't wait to see the Gang specific ones.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:19:34


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Do check out the "how to build" videos. As always they're very basic - if you know how to build a miniature then you don't need the information - but they contain shots of the instructions.

They're all specific named gangers, but if what I'm seeing is correct it looks -very- modular. So the Escher ganger Rhosinn has a laspistol (right) and sword (left) arm, but it appears that that plasma pistol (left) from Marika would just as easily fit on that Rhosinn body, allowing you to have a Laspistol/Plasma pistol ganger. Video even says they are, so it seems very cleverly designed.




Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:21:30


Post by: ImAGeek


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can we petition GW to have that chick do all of their voice overs from now on? She's incredible!

Anyway, yeah, this looks ace. The action mechanic seems like a great idea. Definitely liking the look of this.

Interested to see how they handle the 'Legacy Gangs' section.


She’s great, isn’t she? The videos are really fun.

Really looking forward to this.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:24:23


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Do check out the "how to build" videos. As always they're very basic - if you know how to build a miniature then you don't need the information - but they contain shots of the instructions.

They're all specific named gangers, but if what I'm seeing is correct it looks -very- modular. So the Escher ganger Rhosinn has a laspistol (right) and sword (left) arm, but it appears that that plasma pistol (left) from Marika would just as easily fit on that Rhosinn body, allowing you to have a Laspistol/Plasma pistol ganger. Video even says they are, so it seems very cleverly designed.




The pictures of the complete gangs show that there's five torso/legs for each gang, and then you can add different heads, hair and arms.

It looks like the Necromunda Underhive box set has the option to follow the instructions and build two pre-constructed gangs complete with stat cards, so new players can get stuck in right away without needing to worry about which weapons to choose - but also allows you to build your own gang if you're more experienced.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:30:05


Post by: anab0lic


Despite being underwhelmed by the sculpts (hopefully the next gangs will be more to my taste), I'm still very much looking forward to playing this.

Mordheim this time next year perhaps? I hope so.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:30:49


Post by: ImAGeek


anab0lic wrote:
Despite being underwhelmed by the sculpts (hopefully the next gangs will be more to my taste), I'm still very much looking forward to playing this.

Mordheim this time next year perhaps? I hope so.


Adeptus Titanicus is next year.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:30:55


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:41:23


Post by: Chopstick


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Do check out the "how to build" videos. As always they're very basic - if you know how to build a miniature then you don't need the information - but they contain shots of the instructions.

They're all specific named gangers, but if what I'm seeing is correct it looks -very- modular. So the Escher ganger Rhosinn has a laspistol (right) and sword (left) arm, but it appears that that plasma pistol (left) from Marika would just as easily fit on that Rhosinn body, allowing you to have a Laspistol/Plasma pistol ganger. Video even says they are, so it seems very cleverly designed.




The leader Coat are stuck with the combi-bolter and the whip arm tho. Not sure if there will be any "coat arm" weapon for the leader, but it seem unlikely. The Coat look like it will fit on any toso part.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:41:56


Post by: Samsonov


Looks all very nice. Admittedly, I shall not be buying in except for perhaps rules, having committed to Necromunda in smaller scales, but it is great to see GW giving a classic range the love it deserves.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:45:47


Post by: anab0lic


 ImAGeek wrote:
anab0lic wrote:
Despite being underwhelmed by the sculpts (hopefully the next gangs will be more to my taste), I'm still very much looking forward to playing this.

Mordheim this time next year perhaps? I hope so.


Adeptus Titanicus is next year.


Isnt that one mostly being handled by Forgeworld?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:53:48


Post by: Elbows


Colour me impressed. While I dislike the aesthetic of the new models, the design is pretty solid --- if that level of flexibility/posing exists in the other better gangs (Orlocks, Cawdor etc.) I'm 100% sold. Still a bit miffed about the scale (they do look quite big). Also, annoyed that I'll have to buy the boxed game and sell off the gangs since I dislike them both --- that or create my own dice/tokens/counters/cards. etc.

I think they could do really well - as long as they don't hand over the reigns to Forgeworld and make everything garbage resin.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 13:57:28


Post by: Mymearan


anab0lic wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
anab0lic wrote:
Despite being underwhelmed by the sculpts (hopefully the next gangs will be more to my taste), I'm still very much looking forward to playing this.

Mordheim this time next year perhaps? I hope so.


Adeptus Titanicus is next year.


Isnt that one mostly being handled by Forgeworld?


Specialist Games AFAIK, same people as Blood Bowl and Necromunda. Also they've mentioned Battlefleet Heresy.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:04:07


Post by: Vorian


 Elbows wrote:
Colour me impressed. While I dislike the aesthetic of the new models, the design is pretty solid --- if that level of flexibility/posing exists in the other better gangs (Orlocks, Cawdor etc.) I'm 100% sold. Still a bit miffed about the scale (they do look quite big). Also, annoyed that I'll have to buy the boxed game and sell off the gangs since I dislike them both --- that or create my own dice/tokens/counters/cards. etc.

I think they could do really well - as long as they don't hand over the reigns to Forgeworld and make everything garbage resin.


I'm pretty sure the dice are just D6 showing the old 1 = flesh wound, 2-5 = man down, 6 = out of action and other things like that. Seems like it's perfectly easy to play without those dice?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:05:15


Post by: ImAGeek


 Mymearan wrote:
anab0lic wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
anab0lic wrote:
Despite being underwhelmed by the sculpts (hopefully the next gangs will be more to my taste), I'm still very much looking forward to playing this.

Mordheim this time next year perhaps? I hope so.


Adeptus Titanicus is next year.


Isnt that one mostly being handled by Forgeworld?


Specialist Games AFAIK, same people as Blood Bowl and Necromunda. Also they've mentioned Battlefleet Heresy.


Yeah. Specialist Games is a branch of Forgeworld and they’ve done Blood Bowl and now Necromunda and are working on Adeptus Titanicus.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:34:43


Post by: Voss


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Eh. I'm pretty pleased at not being excited at an incoherent release with partial gangs, partial rules, no terrain, must buy supplement (to get the rest of the basic game rules), and what looks like an unpleasant combo of 8e and 2e rules.
Especially when there is no indication of when the two starter gangs will get completed or any other gangs will appear.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:34:52


Post by: Elbows


Vorian wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Colour me impressed. While I dislike the aesthetic of the new models, the design is pretty solid --- if that level of flexibility/posing exists in the other better gangs (Orlocks, Cawdor etc.) I'm 100% sold. Still a bit miffed about the scale (they do look quite big). Also, annoyed that I'll have to buy the boxed game and sell off the gangs since I dislike them both --- that or create my own dice/tokens/counters/cards. etc.

I think they could do really well - as long as they don't hand over the reigns to Forgeworld and make everything garbage resin.


I'm pretty sure the dice are just D6 showing the old 1 = flesh wound, 2-5 = man down, 6 = out of action and other things like that. Seems like it's perfectly easy to play without those dice?


Oh, for sure...but it's nowhere near as cool (very easy to create a simple dice roll chart).


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:35:54


Post by: ImAGeek


Voss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Eh. I'm pretty pleased at not being excited at an incoherent release with partial gangs, partial rules, no terrain, must buy supplement (to get the rest of the basic game rules), and what looks like an unpleasant combo of 8e and 2e rules.
Especially when there is no indication of when the two starter gangs will get completed or any other gangs will appear.


What do you mean, partial gangs?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:39:42


Post by: Elbows


Only two of the gangs are in the starter box.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:44:22


Post by: Togusa


How many gangs are expected to come?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:44:45


Post by: zamerion





Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:49:47


Post by: Elbows


If we're expecting the old gangs (and I suspect we are...)

Escher
Goliath
Orlock
Van Saar
Delaque
Cawdor

These were the basic gangs - and actually the names come from rich merchant houses which hired non-descript gangs to do their fighting for them. This explains why you could have a dozen "Goliath" gangs with different names. The actual name Goliath comes from House Goliath --- and their equipment and type of warriors were supposed to represent how they chose to hire and equip the fighters.

We also had hired guns (generic mercenary characters), and later expansions introduced some silly nonsense like Spyrers, etc.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:50:29


Post by: Voss


 ImAGeek wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Eh. I'm pretty pleased at not being excited at an incoherent release with partial gangs, partial rules, no terrain, must buy supplement (to get the rest of the basic game rules), and what looks like an unpleasant combo of 8e and 2e rules.
Especially when there is no indication of when the two starter gangs will get completed or any other gangs will appear.


What do you mean, partial gangs?

No heavies, no juves.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:52:55


Post by: Elbows


You're presuming those even exist now - I suspect they do not.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:53:54


Post by: str00dles1


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Excited sure, it looks cool. But lets not forget that Necromunda/Bloodbowl all thrive on nostalgia. It was good for its time, because there wasn't a lot of options. Rule making has come a long way and a lot of the issues of most miniature games, companies seem to fix now. Miniature games are a dime a dozen so this lets us look at games realistically as we have the options now.

I plan to pick it up, and it seems like they went the way with adding a good amount of 8th edition rules to keep it simple. (Though templates coming back is a very odd choice)

For me it will all rely on the activation system. 40k is flawed with UGOIGO system and I doubt they will ever change it. I don't know the necro system, but it should be alternative unit activation.

the apparent effort they are putting in it is nice. Will release free rules for old gangs, quick reference sheets, etc


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:55:26


Post by: Mymearan


Voss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Eh. I'm pretty pleased at not being excited at an incoherent release with partial gangs, partial rules, no terrain, must buy supplement (to get the rest of the basic game rules), and what looks like an unpleasant combo of 8e and 2e rules.
Especially when there is no indication of when the two starter gangs will get completed or any other gangs will appear.


You get a complete board game in the box. It's the starter product for the game, and there is an additional book for those who want to play the advanced campaign skirmish game. Not ideal, but also no different than, say, Blood Bowl. As for "unpleasant combo", no one knows since we don't have the rules yet. The only thing we have to go on is the people who demoed it at Adepticon, and those impressions were all positive. Which parts exactly do you find unpleasant? As for gangs, they have said we'll get all the old gangs, so there is plenty of indication.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
str00dles1 wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Excited sure, it looks cool. But lets not forget that Necromunda/Bloodbowl all thrive on nostalgia. It was good for its time, because there wasn't a lot of options. Rule making has come a long way and a lot of the issues of most miniature games, companies seem to fix now. Miniature games are a dime a dozen so this lets us look at games realistically as we have the options now.

I plan to pick it up, and it seems like they went the way with adding a good amount of 8th edition rules to keep it simple. (Though templates coming back is a very odd choice)

For me it will all rely on the activation system. 40k is flawed with UGOIGO system and I doubt they will ever change it. I don't know the necro system, but it should be alternative unit activation.

the apparent effort they are putting in it is nice. Will release free rules for old gangs, quick reference sheets, etc


It is alternate activation, we've known that since they announced it. They haven't added to the rules as much as completely rewritten them from the ground up, from what we've heard and seen so far. It seems far more complex than any other modern GW game.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 14:57:09


Post by: Geifer


 Elbows wrote:
You're presuming those even exist now - I suspect they do not.


I think we can at least expect Heavies since the website has Leaders and Champions as limited choices (1 and 2 respectively) and the old minimum strength of three gangers. Seems Heavies just got renamed.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:01:13


Post by: Mymearan


 Elbows wrote:
If we're expecting the old gangs (and I suspect we are...)

Escher
Goliath
Orlock
Van Saar
Delaque
Cawdor

These were the basic gangs - and actually the names come from rich merchant houses which hired non-descript gangs to do their fighting for them. This explains why you could have a dozen "Goliath" gangs with different names. The actual name Goliath comes from House Goliath --- and their equipment and type of warriors were supposed to represent how they chose to hire and equip the fighters.

We also had hired guns (generic mercenary characters), and later expansions introduced some silly nonsense like Spyrers, etc.


+ Ratskins, Scavvies, Arbites and Redemptionists.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:04:47


Post by: Elbows


Yep...all the stuff that ruined the game in my opinion. Really hated the Outlanders supplement and the junk it introduced.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:11:08


Post by: Voss


 Mymearan wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Eh. I'm pretty pleased at not being excited at an incoherent release with partial gangs, partial rules, no terrain, must buy supplement (to get the rest of the basic game rules), and what looks like an unpleasant combo of 8e and 2e rules.
Especially when there is no indication of when the two starter gangs will get completed or any other gangs will appear.


You get a complete board game in the box. It's the starter product for the game, and there is an additional book for those who want to play the advanced campaign skirmish game. Not ideal, but also no different than, say, Blood Bowl. As for "unpleasant combo", no one knows since we don't have the rules yet. The only thing we have to go on is the people who demoed it at Adepticon, and those impressions were all positive. Which parts exactly do you find unpleasant? As for gangs, they have said we'll get all the old gangs, so there is plenty of indication.

The stat cards are in the first post. They look like a messy combination of rules from different editions. As for obviously unpleasant? The return of templates, scatter dice and firepower dice. The injury dice don't inspire much confidence either, nor does the vision arc template or the tactics cards (which since a lot are gang based, look like more pointless add-ons to sell for the rest of the gangs).

It obviously isn't a complete game, given they have another book to sell almost immediately, with rules intentionally separated from the rest. You can call one a board game and the other a campaign skirmish game if you really want to, but to most looking play Necromunda, it's one game cut up into separate products for extra cash.

This is a messy release that seems aimed at minimizing product into as many discrete packages as possible to weasel more sales.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:15:10


Post by: ImAGeek


Voss wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone isn't excited, it's time to hand in your gamer card.

I mean, I can't actually back that up beyond expressing my own enthusiasm. But you're still wrong and bad for not being excited!


Eh. I'm pretty pleased at not being excited at an incoherent release with partial gangs, partial rules, no terrain, must buy supplement (to get the rest of the basic game rules), and what looks like an unpleasant combo of 8e and 2e rules.
Especially when there is no indication of when the two starter gangs will get completed or any other gangs will appear.


What do you mean, partial gangs?

No heavies, no juves.


Heavies seem to be ‘Champions’ now, and I suspect Juves aren’t a thing any more.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:16:27


Post by: Chopstick


Only 2 Goliath preview pic from FB? Bummer.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:18:44


Post by: otcs


 Elbows wrote:
Yep...all the stuff that ruined the game in my opinion. Really hated the Outlanders supplement and the junk it introduced.

lmao


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:24:38


Post by: streetsamurai


So much win.

Day one DLC sucks, but I'm so excited for this game, that I don't even care


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:38:36


Post by: Galas


otcs wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Yep...all the stuff that ruined the game in my opinion. Really hated the Outlanders supplement and the junk it introduced.

lmao


Yeah, at least for me, all the Outlander gangs are just better and more charactefull than the original gangs.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:42:48


Post by: Nostromodamus


otcs wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Yep...all the stuff that ruined the game in my opinion. Really hated the Outlanders supplement and the junk it introduced.

lmao


Insightful first post.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:47:19


Post by: streetsamurai


 Galas wrote:
otcs wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
Yep...all the stuff that ruined the game in my opinion. Really hated the Outlanders supplement and the junk it introduced.

lmao


Yeah, at least for me, all the Outlander gangs are just better and more charactefull than the original gangs.


I really liked the outlaw gangs too, especially the scavvies and the red. Hopefully, they'll make cawdor more interesting than Redemptionist light.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:53:54


Post by: Galas


After the Redeemer comic I have only love for the Redemptionists


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 15:55:03


Post by: streetsamurai


who doesn't. I really hope they don't pc-fy the redemptionist. They were pretty much perfect as is


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:00:52


Post by: Requizen


I've never played Necromunda but I love Skirmish level games. Is this a viable game for pickup/tourney level play or is it more designed to be done as a campaign in-house?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:07:59


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


 streetsamurai wrote:
who doesn't. I really hope they don't pc-fy the redemptionist. They were pretty much perfect as is


You can't pc-fy Klovis the Redeemer.

Remember, If it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:18:43


Post by: Chopstick


So the box is a monster's lair? lol.

Also the "Gang war" supplement is only 64 page. so it'll probably be about 10$.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:31:42


Post by: vonjankmon


Chopstick wrote:
So the box is a monster's lair? lol.

Also the "Gang war" supplement is only 64 page. so it'll probably be about 10$.


Have we met the same GW? I can't even remember what last time I paid less than $20 for a GW book that wasn't a WD.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:33:37


Post by: Huron black heart


I do like this but think GW have missed a trick. This game should be as much about the scenery as the gangs themselves and I think GW should have made a stackable set of terrain, similar to Mantic's Deadzone scenery. As it is we've effectively got a board game.
I understand their aiming at a younger market and trying to keep everything contained in one box but surely they could have produced a set with 2 gangs and a few bits of terrain,


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:38:06


Post by: Chopstick


 vonjankmon wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
So the box is a monster's lair? lol.

Also the "Gang war" supplement is only 64 page. so it'll probably be about 10$.


Have we met the same GW? I can't even remember what last time I paid less than $20 for a GW book that wasn't a WD.


Oops, Thought it had the same number of page as AoS skirmish, turn out skirmish only had 40 pages and sell for 10$. So this one might be about 20-30$.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:42:53


Post by: Geifer


Requizen wrote:
I've never played Necromunda but I love Skirmish level games. Is this a viable game for pickup/tourney level play or is it more designed to be done as a campaign in-house?


Out of the box Necromunda has almost exclusively been a campaign game as the restrictions for starter gangs (and thus pick-up game friendly rules) were very limited with campaign growth in mind. You could play pick-up games if you wanted to, but you basically missed out on the actual game.

Whether this is still the case has yet to be determined, but the quasi board game presentation including pre-generated gangs suggests (at least to me) that there's more to new Necromunda than the campaign that's safely tucked away in its own book.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:46:40


Post by: Galas


 vonjankmon wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
So the box is a monster's lair? lol.

Also the "Gang war" supplement is only 64 page. so it'll probably be about 10$.


Have we met the same GW? I can't even remember what last time I paid less than $20 for a GW book that wasn't a WD.


https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Age-of-Sigmar-Skirmish-ENG-2017

40 pages but... who knows. The Necromunda "Gang's Wars" will have a Necromunda/Nostalgia/Supplement-tax, thats no doubt, but maybe it will be under 20$


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:50:10


Post by: xerxeshavelock


Chopstick wrote:
So the box is a monster's lair? .


I'd only just noticed that. Not a bad idea imo. Better than the 3 container crates idea anyway.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:51:35


Post by: Yodhrin


 Huron black heart wrote:
I do like this but think GW have missed a trick. This game should be as much about the scenery as the gangs themselves and I think GW should have made a stackable set of terrain, similar to Mantic's Deadzone scenery. As it is we've effectively got a board game.
I understand their aiming at a younger market and trying to keep everything contained in one box but surely they could have produced a set with 2 gangs and a few bits of terrain,


*sigh* I just got done having this argument on the facebook page - it is not a board game, it is a boxed game that includes a cardboard play surface because that was the cheapest way to include terrain in the box, the tunnel fighting rules will work equally well on FW Zone Mortalis boards or 3d tunnel boards of your own construction. Putting enough plastic 3D terrain in the box to play an actual game on would have made it either hideously expensive for us to buy, or a huge loss for GW to sell, and whether because they don't want to undercut their existing plastic terrain kits with a cheapie alternative or because they share my own view that pseudo-3D cardboard terrain doesn't fly anymore because this isn't the 90's they decided against putting that in there.

Literally the only potential issue with the approach is that they don't include the campaign and non-tunnel scenario rules in the boxed set rulebook, and whether that's actually an issue will depend on whether they put the core rules and tunnel scenario rules in the separate rulebook, or how much said separate book costs if they haven't. I suspect they're aiming to do the same as with Blood Bowl, ie get the sticker price on the core box as low as they can, and so they will have carved off just the campaign, other gangs, and non-tunnel scenario rules for the book, but that only becomes a problem if they carve off the extra material and then don't actually drop the price of the boxed set from what we would otherwise expect it to cost. If it's the same as Blood Bowl(65 quid for the box and 15 quid for the book) I won't have an issue because lets be 1000% real here, if they included the book content in the box the box would cost at least as much as the two combined.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:54:11


Post by: JohnnyHell


 Huron black heart wrote:
I do like this but think GW have missed a trick. This game should be as much about the scenery as the gangs themselves and I think GW should have made a stackable set of terrain, similar to Mantic's Deadzone scenery. As it is we've effectively got a board game.
I understand their aiming at a younger market and trying to keep everything contained in one box but surely they could have produced a set with 2 gangs and a few bits of terrain,


My post from the previous locked thread details why. Essentially, Specialist Games couldn't afford to develop terrain themselves (remember the divisions work in silos, it's not as joined up as it should be). However, the Sector Mechanicus stuff came out, so they can capitalise on GW-main having done the R&D and investment already. They'll promote both SM stuff and Forge World's Zone Mortalis stuff for use with Newcromunda. Why they don't box them together? Likely more working in silos silliness. Such is the way of the corporate company.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 16:57:43


Post by: Galas


I really love this artists, people will say that it is too childlish for GW but... we have enough dark blanchitsu art, this is the kind of thing that you can show new people to the universe and catch their eyes with.





Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 17:16:23


Post by: nou


My main question now is if "Gang Wars" supplement is stand-alone (have repeated basic rules) or I HAVE TO buy boxed game to have basic rules, as I'm totally not interested in new gangers or dice...


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 17:20:32


Post by: Neronoxx


nou wrote:
My main question now is if "Gang Wars" supplement is stand-alone (have repeated basic rules) or I HAVE TO buy boxed game to have basic rules, as I'm totally not interested in new gangers or dice...

You are probably out of luck


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 17:33:51


Post by: pgmason


I can imagine there will be people breaking up boxed sets for eBay etc. You should be able to get the rules separately on the secondary market.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 17:42:06


Post by: Alendrel


Or as an ebook.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 17:55:17


Post by: silent25


I would rather have a game with cardboard tiles then having to scramble to try to get a copy like what happened with Shadow War Armageddon.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 17:59:04


Post by: BrookM


Appears that the site is down, probably swamped with traffic or something.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:01:13


Post by: Strg Alt


 ImAGeek wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can we petition GW to have that chick do all of their voice overs from now on? She's incredible!

Anyway, yeah, this looks ace. The action mechanic seems like a great idea. Definitely liking the look of this.

Interested to see how they handle the 'Legacy Gangs' section.


She’s great, isn’t she? The videos are really fun.

Really looking forward to this.


I was on the fence about purchasing Necromunda but that woman sold me the box all by herself. Terrific performance. Now I want to see previews of the Underhive´s infamous critters and the new model for the iconic Mad Donna.
Does anybody know, if the Redeemer will return in a new comic series? That guy was brutal but funny and sometimes even funny but brutal. I really enjoyed the tales of his wacky crusades.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:06:43


Post by: BrookM


If they're doing new comics, they'll be outsourced to.. Titan I think it was? Decent comics, but they lack the flavour and style of the old ones done by BL.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:07:37


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured




Necromunda is back, and Black Library are celebrating. A host of classic tales have been unearthed from the archives, including novels, a short story anthology and even graphic novels – and they're being released in new paperback editions. Among the releases is 'Kal Jerico: Underhive Bounty Hunter', a collection of the entire run of the original comic strips that launched the career of the infamous rogue.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:09:18


Post by: Elbows


At this point, while impressed with the direction...I'm more anxious to see how the other gangs turn out.

If the game sucks...no big deal I can play old Necromunda or YakTribe's version. I'm really more excited about the models than anything else. I do think they could have hit a home-run with repackaging the new terrain into a box like Shadow Wars --- because all of the Shadow Wars players and 40K players would have bought it solely for the terrain itself.

My only fervent hope is that the other four main gangs are cool (I've never cared for Escher or Goliath)...and that we get a box of plastic Arbites at some point.

Considering it is FW based - special characters and hired guns will be an absolute zero to me since they'll likely be in resin.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:13:17


Post by: BrookM


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


Necromunda is back, and Black Library are celebrating. A host of classic tales have been unearthed from the archives, including novels, a short story anthology and even graphic novels – and they're being released in new paperback editions. Among the releases is 'Kal Jerico: Underhive Bounty Hunter', a collection of the entire run of the original comic strips that launched the career of the infamous rogue.
Hopefully they'll fix the typos in the Kal Jerico book, quite annoying.

I've got all the other books though, alongside the classic Status: Deadzone, some of the novels are a blast, especially Junktion and Survival Instinct.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:17:39


Post by: RazorEdge


I hope we will see Rules and a Model for Kal Jerico.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:40:35


Post by: Theophony


 BrookM wrote:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


Necromunda is back, and Black Library are celebrating. A host of classic tales have been unearthed from the archives, including novels, a short story anthology and even graphic novels – and they're being released in new paperback editions. Among the releases is 'Kal Jerico: Underhive Bounty Hunter', a collection of the entire run of the original comic strips that launched the career of the infamous rogue.
Hopefully they'll fix the typos in the Kal Jerico book, quite annoying.

I've got all the other books though, alongside the classic Status: Deadzone, some of the novels are a blast, especially Junktion and Survival Instinct.

No typos in any of the book, just a subliminal message that makes sense only to the enlightened


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 18:54:31


Post by: Strg Alt


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


Necromunda is back, and Black Library are celebrating. A host of classic tales have been unearthed from the archives, including novels, a short story anthology and even graphic novels – and they're being released in new paperback editions. Among the releases is 'Kal Jerico: Underhive Bounty Hunter', a collection of the entire run of the original comic strips that launched the career of the infamous rogue.


Thanks for the info.
I just remembered that Sly Marbo was axed from the Imperial Guard codex. Can we extrapolate from this occurence that Mad Donna will not see the light of day in the next edition of Necromunda?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 19:28:22


Post by: Thargrim


Looks good, might hold off on this until christmas though. I've already commited to shadespire and the extra expansions for that.

Also unsure about the rules for this game, not sure my friends or anyone else I know would be willing to play this. As soon as they look at those stat cards full of numbers everywhere they'll just seize up and say hell no. I can see the steam pouring out of their ears already. The models look good no problems there. Looking back on things I shouldn't have bought dark imperium, probably wouldn't have had this been announced back when 8th dropped.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 19:28:53


Post by: anab0lic


Possible the original models might show up in the 'made to order' line?

I think I will be on the lookout for alt sculpt Kickstarters if not.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 19:31:53


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Voss wrote:
As for obviously unpleasant? The return of templates, scatter dice and firepower dice. The injury dice don't inspire much confidence either, nor does the vision arc template or the tactics cards (which since a lot are gang based, look like more pointless add-ons to sell for the rest of the gangs).


What's wrong with templates and scatter dice? The injury dice are literally just a D6 with 1 flesh wound, 1 out of action and 4 downs. Vision arcs are a simple visual way of doing firing arcs that the original game already had.

Voss wrote:
It obviously isn't a complete game, given they have another book to sell almost immediately, with rules intentionally separated from the rest. You can call one a board game and the other a campaign skirmish game if you really want to, but to most looking play Necromunda, it's one game cut up into separate products for extra cash.

This is a messy release that seems aimed at minimizing product into as many discrete packages as possible to weasel more sales.


Nonsense. It is a complete game. As was stated in the recently-closed Necromunda thread, it's on board tiles because producing a fully 3D boxed game would have been prohibitively expensive. It's a compromise.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 19:47:49


Post by: Albino Squirrel


I'm not particularly excited. Then again, I never played Necromunda. I guess the gang fighting theme just didn't really appeal to me much, and it still doesn't.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 20:02:35


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 Strg Alt wrote:
I just remembered that Sly Marbo was axed from the Imperial Guard codex. Can we extrapolate from this occurence that Mad Donna will not see the light of day in the next edition of Necromunda?


Did they get rid of star players in Blood Bowl? I'm dreading buying hired guns from Forge World...but would love to see a new Mad Donna in the style of new Escher.

In other news I think I'll skip Shadespire and know what I'll be getting for Xmas.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 20:32:35


Post by: Strg Alt


Chairman Aeon wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
I just remembered that Sly Marbo was axed from the Imperial Guard codex. Can we extrapolate from this occurence that Mad Donna will not see the light of day in the next edition of Necromunda?


Did they get rid of star players in Blood Bowl? I'm dreading buying hired guns from Forge World...but would love to see a new Mad Donna in the style of new Escher.

In other news I think I'll skip Shadespire and know what I'll be getting for Xmas.


The special characters Sly Marbo and Mad Donna are derived from actual people (Sylvester Stallone & Madonna). They were conceived when the game designers were allowed to have a sense of humour. In this regard they differ in a profound manner from characters like Col. Straken or the Redeemer which are wholly fictitious. I don´t own the new Deathzone supplement for Blood Bowl but in the past there was a "Buffy" (Sarah Michelle Gellar) character playing for the Human team. If this "Buffy" character does not appear in the new edition it is almost a given that GW will not produce a new Mad Donna.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 20:45:14


Post by: xerxeshavelock


Ahh - separate vision markers for Esher and Goliath because they are on different size bases. Of course....


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 20:49:36


Post by: Easy E


It sounds like starting gangs maybe differentiated a bit more than in the old rules based on my reading of the website.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 20:58:21


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 Strg Alt wrote:
The special characters Sly Marbo and Mad Donna are derived from actual people (Sylvester Stallone & Madonna). They were conceived when the game designers were allowed to have a sense of humour. In this regard they differ in a profound manner from characters like Col. Straken or the Redeemer which are wholly fictitious. I don´t own the new Deathzone supplement for Blood Bowl but in the past there was a "Buffy" (Sarah Michelle Gellar) character playing for the Human team. If this "Buffy" character does not appear in the new edition it is almost a given that GW will not produce a new Mad Donna.


From this website:
"It is worth pointing out that Andy Hoare has said that Zara will not get a reprint in the new Blood Bowl rules because she really does not fit in with the fluff of the game."

There is a comment about Zara being based on Buffy. Now the above statement could be covering their butts, but they did bring out rules for Sly Marbo in SWA, so... And D'onne Ulanti, while stealing Jean-Paul Gauthier's bustier, still fits into Necromunda. They of course doesn't mean they'll make a new model for her.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 20:59:26


Post by: Scrub


Manage to get rid of the last of my Kingdom Death stuff for this, it looks great! Suspiciously high production values from a marketing perspective for Games Workshop... what has the world come to!?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 21:57:32


Post by: Warhams-77


Can't wait to get the box and the book


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 23:12:44


Post by: Dr. Mills


Time to get my old Orlock gang - The Bolter Boys - out of retirement and back into the thick of it!

Some things never change though - Bolters are still 6+ ammo rolls


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/26 23:45:03


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Dr. Mills wrote:
Time to get my old Orlock gang - The Bolter Boys - out of retirement and back into the thick of it!

Some things never change though - Bolters are still 6+ ammo rolls

Well yeah, they’re miniature rockets with electronic detonators - that’s pretty hard to make work even when you have proper manufacturing and storage, never mind bootleg black-market knockoffs and factory seconds that have changed hands and been (inexpertly) ‘inspected’ a dozen times before reaching the gangs… who promptly used the crate to prop up the leaking sump tank.
Really, it’s a miracle the things fire at all, far less work as advertised.

That said, I’m actually pretty happy to her that the Great Houses are being fleshed out and the gangs are being put in more direct contact with their parent organisations - makes having gear like bolters and needlers less ridiculous overall.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 00:29:58


Post by: argonak


Hah, I love that the goliaths are being listed as essentially abhumans in their fluff. That's awesome and works great with their model design. I love their looks too.

The Escher I'm not sold on, but I think its their paint job that's mostly throwing me off. Just something odd about it.

Now if only I didn't suck at painting human skin.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 01:11:40


Post by: Mr_Rose


The thing with the painting is that it’s all done by Forge World/Specialist Games’ new guy who is all about point highlighting and shading; that is, they are painted to look like they are lit from above in a hyper-real style that paints in the shadows as they would appear if lit from that angle. It’s sort of like applying azimuthal highlights or OSL to each muscle and armour plate individually.
It looks great in the tabletop shots and probably in person too, but in a studio-shot photo with no background shading to cue you in it just looks weird.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 03:24:38


Post by: MangoMadness


So day 1 even with the Gang War suppliment there are only 2 gangs to play?

Not models, just actual stats/skills etc.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 04:57:23


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Were the sprues shown in the videos or anywhere?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 04:57:37


Post by: ZoBo


 MangoMadness wrote:
So day 1 even with the Gang War suppliment there are only 2 gangs to play?

Not models, just actual stats/skills etc.

that's what's been said all along though right?...just the main box with the goliaths and eschers to start with, followed fairly soon after by other gangs?...I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that there'll be at least another 2-3 gangs by the end of the year.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Were the sprues shown in the videos or anywhere?

kinda, you can get a look at most of the sprues in the two "how to build" videos...they're in the OP if you can't find 'em


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 05:25:04


Post by: MangoMadness


 ZoBo wrote:
 MangoMadness wrote:
So day 1 even with the Gang War suppliment there are only 2 gangs to play?

Not models, just actual stats/skills etc.

that's what's been said all along though right?


Yes in relation to the initial box set, but not about the 1st expansion book (Gang War). I would have thought that the first thing released would be more player factions rather than expanding the ways to play the game.....with only 2 factions.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 05:39:30


Post by: Warhams-77


 MangoMadness wrote:
So day 1 even with the Gang War suppliment there are only 2 gangs to play?

Where has this been said? In the livestream? Do you have a source for it?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 05:42:11


Post by: ZoBo


 MangoMadness wrote:
 ZoBo wrote:
 MangoMadness wrote:
So day 1 even with the Gang War suppliment there are only 2 gangs to play?

Not models, just actual stats/skills etc.

that's what's been said all along though right?


Yes in relation to the initial box set, but not about the 1st expansion book (Gang War). I would have thought that the first thing released would be more player factions rather than expanding the ways to play the game.....with only 2 factions.

Ohh...yeah ok, now I get ya...actually yeah that is kinda odd...I wonder how they're gonna do the other gang-specific rules and stuff...packaged with each gang as they're released I guess?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 05:47:09


Post by: Mymearan


Did you miss the “Legacy gang rules - coming soon” thing on the website? I assume all those gang rules will be available on release day.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 06:15:52


Post by: Neronoxx


Atia has stated that content for the game is supposed to be fast and steady, so I'm not really worried.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 06:29:58


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I like that the box acts as an extension of the terrain.

 MangoMadness wrote:
So day 1 even with the Gang War suppliment there are only 2 gangs to play?

Not models, just actual stats/skills etc.
The Legacy Gang section has you covered there.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 07:48:24


Post by: Commissar Benny


Many questions:

1. How tall are these models compared to say guardsmen in 40k? I've heard they are much larger.

2. Will they be releasing additional models for the other gangs? Delaque etc?

3. ETA on said new models?



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 08:43:18


Post by: Mymearan


 Commissar Benny wrote:
Many questions:

1. How tall are these models compared to say guardsmen in 40k? I've heard they are much larger.

2. Will they be releasing additional models for the other gangs? Delaque etc?

3. ETA on said new models?



They are taller, yep. Keep in mind that the Goliaths are essentially roided-out abhumans and the Escher are warrior amazons with 5-inch heels. Andy Hoare from FW has stated that they are the same scale as all other modern GW minis (taking the above into account).

We will get all the gangs eventually but there's no timetable yet.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 08:53:11


Post by: fresus


 Mymearan wrote:
 Commissar Benny wrote:
Many questions:

1. How tall are these models compared to say guardsmen in 40k? I've heard they are much larger.

2. Will they be releasing additional models for the other gangs? Delaque etc?

3. ETA on said new models?



They are taller, yep. Keep in mind that the Goliaths are essentially roided-out abhumans and the Escher are warrior amazons with 5-inch heels. Andy Hoare from FW has stated that they are the same scale as all other modern GW minis (taking the above into account).

We will get all the gangs eventually but there's no timetable yet.

If it helps, the Eschers are on 25mm, and the Goliaths on 32mm bases.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 09:00:35


Post by: beast_gts


 Mymearan wrote:
 Commissar Benny wrote:
Many questions:

1. How tall are these models compared to say guardsmen in 40k? I've heard they are much larger.

2. Will they be releasing additional models for the other gangs? Delaque etc?

3. ETA on said new models?



They are taller, yep. Keep in mind that the Goliaths are essentially roided-out abhumans and the Escher are warrior amazons with 5-inch heels. Andy Hoare from FW has stated that they are the same scale as all other modern GW minis (taking the above into account).

We will get all the gangs eventually but there's no timetable yet.


"House Goliath furnace-tenders are often bigger than a Space Marine and some regard them as a classifiable strain of Abhuman."



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 09:49:08


Post by: Sabotage!


It looks like we will be getting Legacy rules upon release. I wonder if they are also included in Gang War (that would make sense). I also am wondering if in the Legacy rules/ Gang Wars we will get to see the old gangs new stats and wacky new gear (like the Goliath's weaponized industrial tools and the Escher's chem weapons). Either way, I'm beyond stoked.

I also wouldn't be surprised if we get two more gangs two weeks after Necromunda comes out (first weekend in December). That's what they did with Shadespire and it gives GW some time to advertise them and more importantly for most people who are paid twice a month, or at the start of the month, more money to buy them with.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 10:20:49


Post by: JoeRugby


 Commissar Benny wrote:
Many questions:

1. How tall are these models compared to say guardsmen in 40k? I've heard they are much larger.



If you go to the gang section on the site they show you pics of all the minis in that particular gang.

Adjust the image so the bases are 25mm for Esher 32 for goliath.

You can then hold up a mini to the screen to have a size comparison.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 11:11:18


Post by: ZoBo


somewhere in the painting videos, at least for the escher one I'm sure, duncan's got one of the models standing right next to a paint pot...that should be a good easy comparison?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 11:26:25


Post by: Crimson


Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 11:33:01


Post by: JawRippa


 Crimson wrote:
Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.

Magnets, my friend.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 11:35:49


Post by: Crimson


 JawRippa wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.

Magnets, my friend.

Yeah, I'm not gonna magnetise infantry.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 11:39:23


Post by: tneva82


Well then you either don't upgrade weapons or compromise on WYSIWYG.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 11:42:59


Post by: ZoBo


 Crimson wrote:
 JawRippa wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.

Magnets, my friend.

Yeah, I'm not gonna magnetise infantry.


I would agree with you, but I mean, it's not like it's magnetising a "green tide" ork army or something...this's just a necromunda gang...likely just a few wrist-join magnets so you can swap out weapons...doesn't sound too bad to me really - depending on how the models go together, regarding weapons and such...


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:01:36


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Fair warning - potentially controversial, but hopefully not incendiary opinion follows.

I. Hate. Spyrers. They're dull. The don't fit with the rest of the game. And in my experience, they're a TFG magnet (this is not to say if you play Spyrers you're TFG by default. Just to be clear).

They have limited advancement, can't hold territory or do trade, and can't replace losses. Their sole purpose is to be use to beat other gangs in dull and boring ways.

At the start of a campaign, they're easily tuned to utterly overwhelm starting gangs. Fun once or twice - then incredibly dull ever after.

So for me, they need to go.

But what to replace them with? How can we represent The Noble Houses slumming it for a bit?

Well, how about bringing in some gangs of yesteryear from Confrontation (not the Rackham game, the WD based Necromunda precursor game. Look at the pics and the models. Don't try to make sense of the rules...).

Brat Gangs and Tech Gangs - they're wealthier, and thus better fed and equipped than the City Houses. And so much more interesting that 'Imma wear mah suoopasoot and smash face'.

Now. Discuss. Am I being unfair on Spyrers (bad experiences I'm afraid). Do you agree, if so, any other aspects you think could be used?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:08:56


Post by: xerxeshavelock


Background wise I like Spyrers. The figures (well, the art the figures are based on), the motivations, the almost inhuman disociation from the population. Rules wise I kind of see where you're coming from. They are an elite force, and lots of people like playing elites. Make them too strong and everyone plays them. Too weak and they lose their predatory feel. So yeah - great if there's 6+ players and 1 takes spyrers. If there's 3 of us and 2 want to play spyrers it's a bit naff.

As an aside - for the last 10 years, whenever Forgeworld did a survey of what figures did we want made I have been putting Spyrers. The figs never lived up to the art imo.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:12:33


Post by: Binabik15


I agree with the complaints about no juvies and heavies, but it's Necromunda, how could I not be excited.

As long as there's no stupid restriction stuff like house equipment lists that prevent all kinds of awesome conversions. I have the old rules to use with new nodels, though.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:14:57


Post by: zamerion


We are seeing that there are rules change for the gangs (goliath for example with S and T4 or escher with I 3+ and different equipment)

If they realease rules for all classic gangs, they can change their style.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:19:42


Post by: Slipspace


Not as excited for this as I was having seen the website and videos. I'd have infinitely preferred a more-or-less straight re-release of the old Necromunda rules. This strikes me as a Frankenstein muddle of different rulesets. I think they need to be a bit clearer in their marketing about what we're getting in the box and the supplement (day one DLC FTW!)

The models look OK, but I'd have preferred something a lot more modular given the nature of a Necromunda campaign, unless they've changed those rules completely too, of course.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:23:57


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I just feel Spyrers break the game as a player faction.

They're ridiculously hard, and don't partake of many of the post battle sequences - you pretty much just roll for injury and advancement.

There's no going to the market. There's no actual interaction with the wider world.

Now, as a GM controlled antagonist faction? I guess they could work. But not as a player faction. Everytime I've come up against them it's been TFG. The sort to pick on new players, but rage quit as soon as one of his Spyrers snuffed it.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:26:43


Post by: H.B.M.C.


But... these are modular?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:27:03


Post by: Yodhrin


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Fair warning - potentially controversial, but hopefully not incendiary opinion follows.

I. Hate. Spyrers. They're dull. The don't fit with the rest of the game. And in my experience, they're a TFG magnet (this is not to say if you play Spyrers you're TFG by default. Just to be clear).

They have limited advancement, can't hold territory or do trade, and can't replace losses. Their sole purpose is to be use to beat other gangs in dull and boring ways.

At the start of a campaign, they're easily tuned to utterly overwhelm starting gangs. Fun once or twice - then incredibly dull ever after.

So for me, they need to go.

But what to replace them with? How can we represent The Noble Houses slumming it for a bit?

Well, how about bringing in some gangs of yesteryear from Confrontation (not the Rackham game, the WD based Necromunda precursor game. Look at the pics and the models. Don't try to make sense of the rules...).

Brat Gangs and Tech Gangs - they're wealthier, and thus better fed and equipped than the City Houses. And so much more interesting that 'Imma wear mah suoopasoot and smash face'.

Now. Discuss. Am I being unfair on Spyrers (bad experiences I'm afraid). Do you agree, if so, any other aspects you think could be used?


Strongly agree. I'd be happy to see all the Confrontation concepts brought into Necromunda in some form or another, but replacing Spyrers with Brats/Techs - or at the very least, making Spyrer-styled gear rare, expensive late-campaign equipment available only to Brats/Techs - is a brilliant idea.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:28:56


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Didn't Brats/Techs kinda transform into Goliaths (with a bit of Ratskins) and Van Saar in Necromunda?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:30:31


Post by: Mr_Rose


With the new ‘proxy war’ approach they are taking with the gangs’ motivations I can see the Spyrers returning as noble house proxies that can and do take territories (using sensors and other advanced gear to keep others out) and advance normally but use the trading rules to upgrade their gear instead of buying new stuff.
On the other had I wouldn’t mind an ‘elite’ gang that had access to superior gear but was limited in numbers but wasn’t wearing powered armour. Sort of like personal household troops for the heads of houses who can get sentry turrets instead of heavies but no juves or similar.
And if it was one of the above or the other, the second would be more interesting to me.

But I want to see more of what they’re doing with the main houses now first. It’s already hinted that the Orlocks run the mines (where? Are they outside the Hive? What are they mining?) so what are Van Saar and Cawdor (supposed to be) up to?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 12:35:15


Post by: Strg Alt


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Fair warning - potentially controversial, but hopefully not incendiary opinion follows.

I. Hate. Spyrers. They're dull. The don't fit with the rest of the game. And in my experience, they're a TFG magnet (this is not to say if you play Spyrers you're TFG by default. Just to be clear).

They have limited advancement, can't hold territory or do trade, and can't replace losses. Their sole purpose is to be use to beat other gangs in dull and boring ways.

At the start of a campaign, they're easily tuned to utterly overwhelm starting gangs. Fun once or twice - then incredibly dull ever after.

So for me, they need to go.

But what to replace them with? How can we represent The Noble Houses slumming it for a bit?

Well, how about bringing in some gangs of yesteryear from Confrontation (not the Rackham game, the WD based Necromunda precursor game. Look at the pics and the models. Don't try to make sense of the rules...).

Brat Gangs and Tech Gangs - they're wealthier, and thus better fed and equipped than the City Houses. And so much more interesting that 'Imma wear mah suoopasoot and smash face'.

Now. Discuss. Am I being unfair on Spyrers (bad experiences I'm afraid). Do you agree, if so, any other aspects you think could be used?


One of my friends owned a spyrer gang but actually never used them for tabletop action. Why? Well, he knew they were over the top and would ruin the game. It is always wise to play such games like Necromunda with mature players.
I have problems with the religious fanatics of House Cawdor. They have the same theme as the Redemptionists but are worse in comparison to the red hooded zealots. Because of this, GW should reinvent House Cawdor. I doubt that they retcon the Redemptionists because the Redeemer is an icon of Necromunda.



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 13:44:05


Post by: Geifer


 Mr_Rose wrote:
But I want to see more of what they’re doing with the main houses now first. It’s already hinted that the Orlocks run the mines (where? Are they outside the Hive? What are they mining?) so what are Van Saar and Cawdor (supposed to be) up to?


That caught my attention, too. If I end up disliking the official models, tying Orlock to mining operations is the perfect excuse to convert Genestealer Cult models.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 13:45:03


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Never had a problem with Spyrers. They were tough to fight, sure, but I never saw them as overpowered.

Had tougher times with Genestealer Cults.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 14:03:10


Post by: Motograter


Can't wait for this to come out. Likely buy every single release for it


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 14:14:39


Post by: tneva82


Liked idea of spyrer's but felt they were more at home as npc/gm force to be used sparingly


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 14:14:45


Post by: Yodhrin


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Didn't Brats/Techs kinda transform into Goliaths (with a bit of Ratskins) and Van Saar in Necromunda?


Techs evolved into Van Saar and Delaque I think, but there's no equivalent in Necromunda to the Brats, who were basically the Bullingdon Club with guns and that awesome Jes Goodwin "punk + goth via David Bowie" aesthetic of HUEG spiky hair, platforms, wild makeup, and studded leather. There's no reason you couldn't use the basic concept for Brats(rabid Noble House kids proving themselves in bloody gang warfare) but with multiple different aesthetic archetypes, having them start out more "elite" than the normal House gangs but not to the degree of classic Spyrers, then allow them the option of teching up with modernised versions of that gear later in the campaign when other warbands are better equipped to deal with it on a level playing field.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 14:20:46


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


That's the sort of thing.

I just feel Spyrers (whilst cool in their own way) just don't fit Necromunda, or even 40k all that well. Not their aesthetic, not their playstyle.

Show us proper spoiled Noble Families. Brats just sum it up far, far better for me.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 14:42:03


Post by: Easy E


 Strg Alt wrote:

I have problems with the religious fanatics of House Cawdor. They have the same theme as the Redemptionists but are worse in comparison to the red hooded zealots. Because of this, GW should reinvent House Cawdor. I doubt that they retcon the Redemptionists because the Redeemer is an icon of Necromunda.



As a player of House Cawdor, I agree. They were pretty much eclipsed when the Redemptionists came out because they had no more niche to fill. The Redmpetionists just filled the niche better.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 14:47:46


Post by: Galas


Cawdor should abandon the religious theme (Redemptionists do it) and be the "Medieval" Knightly-like gang.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 14:47:50


Post by: Ruin_In_The_Dark


Ah man I have longed for the day where I would see Necromunda rise again, and with all the awesome terrain that's been pumped out I can quite easily predict a period of intense poverty coming up. I have regretted not buying all the original gang models for a long time, I will 100% be buying every gang box and character released.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 15:35:08


Post by: TheAuldGrump


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I just feel Spyrers break the game as a player faction.

They're ridiculously hard, and don't partake of many of the post battle sequences - you pretty much just roll for injury and advancement.

There's no going to the market. There's no actual interaction with the wider world.

Now, as a GM controlled antagonist faction? I guess they could work. But not as a player faction. Everytime I've come up against them it's been TFG. The sort to pick on new players, but rage quit as soon as one of his Spyrers snuffed it.
Yeah - agreed about them being TFG magnets - but the look on his face when he was greeted with 'Which is the highest points cost character in your gang? 'Cause we are all going to be gunning for him' was just precious.

And, sure enough - that character ate all the plasma.

And it turned out that Redemptionists can take the Spyerers, if they are willing to use the flamer fuel....

The Auld Grump


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 15:39:58


Post by: NoggintheNog


Bit of a play through




Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 15:54:07


Post by: usernamesareannoying


summary for those of us who cant watch?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 16:02:25


Post by: NoggintheNog


It works very much like old necromunda, but with 8th edition wound and save mechanics.

Interestingly, they play the basic game on a 2D board straight from the box, but it has all the flavour of the original still.

Confirms the 3D game expansion and more gangs coming soon.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 16:26:17


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Looks pretty good.

I like the jam dice mechanic, certainly makes things trickier.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 16:53:09


Post by: Vorian


Looks like closest target is no longer a thing


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 16:53:31


Post by: otcs


That looks like just sitting there shooting las-weapons is going to be a massively dominant tactic. Boring much?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 16:56:55


Post by: Galas


Necromunda isn't a competitive game, is supposed to be played with mature and narrative-minded people. If they only want to win, wathever measure neccesary, they shouldn't play Necromunda.
They could play Shadespire, is a 100% competitive game.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 16:57:21


Post by: Requizen


otcs wrote:
That looks like just sitting there shooting las-weapons is going to be a massively dominant tactic. Boring much?


Looks like there'll be somewhat of a focus on line of sight blocking and terrain, so probably not.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 17:03:53


Post by: pgmason


The GW how to play video mentioned you had to pass a cool test to shoot anyone but the closest target.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 17:06:48


Post by: Ehldar


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks pretty good.

I like the jam dice mechanic, certainly makes things trickier.


Holy !! Something I recommended / hoped for (and took some flak for) actually made it into the game!?!?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780/736106.page#9563546



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 17:14:02


Post by: Vorian


pgmason wrote:
The GW how to play video mentioned you had to pass a cool test to shoot anyone but the closest target.


Ah, they didn't mention that on the video on the previous page - but that does make sense.

I really like the different hand to hand mechanics. Much better than the original imo


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 17:23:11


Post by: dan2026


This is the most female minis GW has made in an eternity.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 17:31:04


Post by: otcs


 dan2026 wrote:
This is the most female minis GW has made in an eternity.

Yikes! Assuming gender much!?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 17:53:31


Post by: mdauben


otcs wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
This is the most female minis GW has made in an eternity.

Yikes! Assuming gender much!?

How's that for a theme! A Escher gang made up of cross-dressing males lead by the infamous RuPaulus.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:12:05


Post by: Souleater


I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:16:56


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I suspect this video was there to show the very basics of how the game is played.

Relative minutiae such as target priority isn’t as ‘sexy’ as a quick run and gun demo.

The GW chap also forgot to add certan bonuses. The autogun Escher actually hit with at least two shots that were counted as misses. Base to hit is 4+, But with Aiming and Close Range, it’s modified to a 2+. GW guy only counted one of those, the range mod if memory serves.

But such as demo and intro games. It’s not he complexity of the rules, but the fun of the game I’m selling. YMMV, but as a three time GW Till Monkey, that’s the way you roll. Keep it fast, keep it fun.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:17:41


Post by: otcs


Very disappointing to see GW not representing us fatties!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:33:26


Post by: fresus


I like the way you check for light or hard cover; no more arguments.
Might be difficult to apply to 3D, but for the 2D setup it seems perfect.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:40:10


Post by: Mr_Rose


 usernamesareannoying wrote:
summary for those of us who cant watch?

Players dice off for initiative at the top of the turn then alternate activating individual fighters.
Fighters get two actions per activation. Some (simple) actions can be taken twice, some only once (basic) and some (doubles) take both actions (the summary sheet at Necromunda.com has the basic list that everyone uses)
A fighter completes both of their actions and then passes, and can’t be activated again.

Shooting is one D6 plus modifiers to hit for range, cover etc. plus one or more additional firepower dice expending on the weapon type.
Cover is determined using a range ruler/template: place the centreline of the template over the centre of the shooter and target; if one edge of the template passes over cover, the target is in softcover. If both edges pass over cover, the target is in hard cover. The template looks about an inch wide.
The firepower dice indicates one, two, or three shots, plus one face with a single shot plus a jam result. For weapons such as plasma pistols that fire a single shot per activation, only the ‘jam’ face is relevant. For others such as auto guns (rapid fire weapons in 40K) the indicated shots tell you how many times you hit if your to-hit roll is successful.
If you jam your gun, you have to take a simple action to reload at some point later in the game, passing a ammo check to do so, before you can fire that gun again. If you jam your plasma gun, though, you run the risk of it overheating and melting your hand off, because Warhammer.

Combat is based on player initiative, not fighter; a model that activates first fights first. Charging is a double action that combines a move with a bonus D3" of movement and a ‘free’ fight action.
Combat is done much the same way as 40K: roll a die per attack, plus bonuses for charging and extra weapons, beat your WS to hit. Every time you make a Fight action though, the model you hit gets to make free reaction attacks back in the same way.

Wounding is 8th edition style; double toughness is 2+, beat toughness is 3+, equal is 4+ etc. for shooting and close combat.
Reducing a fighter to 0 wounds allows you to roll injury dice. If your weapon deals more than one point of damage and you have extra damage left over after reducing them to 0 wounds, you get extra injury dice to roll.
Injury dice are faced with symbols equal to classic Necromunda: one down, one flesh wound, four injured. If you’re flesh wounded, you go back to having one wound but take a cumulative -1 penalty to toughness. At 0 toughness you are automatically out of action.
Recovery involves rolling an injury die at the beginning of your turn. Flesh wounds are cumulative so if you’re down to 1 toughness already, you may not want to see that come up….

That’s the basic game from the video. Special scenarios and models/wargear will have unique actions and such but it’s a pretty neat action-economy game. Also, there were no leadership, bottle, cool etc. tests in the demo they played so can’t be sure of what needs to be done when. Though we do know from other sources that shooting at anything other than the closest target requires a Cool test.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:44:47


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


The IGOUGO thing is going to take a bit of getting used to for me.

I’ve nowt against it, it’s just not a mechanic that features in my current preferred games is all.

Looking forward to that challenge.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:46:00


Post by: usernamesareannoying


thanks a lot Mr_Rose!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 18:51:47


Post by: zamerion


Mr_rose, thanks for the info!!


something about leadership?? (when a gand retire for example)

And something about how do you recover from being down ?


Thanks!



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:12:48


Post by: ecurtz


zamerion wrote:
And something about how do you recover from being down ?

Looks like it's roll once per turn until you get a flesh wound or out of action result, which I believe is the same as the original version.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:25:53


Post by: streetsamurai


 Yodhrin wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Didn't Brats/Techs kinda transform into Goliaths (with a bit of Ratskins) and Van Saar in Necromunda?


Techs evolved into Van Saar and Delaque I think, but there's no equivalent in Necromunda to the Brats, who were basically the Bullingdon Club with guns and that awesome Jes Goodwin "punk + goth via David Bowie" aesthetic of HUEG spiky hair, platforms, wild makeup, and studded leather. There's no reason you couldn't use the basic concept for Brats(rabid Noble House kids proving themselves in bloody gang warfare) but with multiple different aesthetic archetypes, having them start out more "elite" than the normal House gangs but not to the degree of classic Spyrers, then allow them the option of teching up with modernised versions of that gear later in the campaign when other warbands are better equipped to deal with it on a level playing field.



Juat went to take a look at them. They are really cool. Hope they make a cimeback


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:29:23


Post by: The Infinite


Is that it?

Enthusiasm is seriously ebbing at this point.

The game system seems, well, simplistic isn't the right word, simple can still provide depth, can still call for interesting decisions, that seems...
basic?
undemanding?
elementary?

Maybe it changes with 3D terrain, or gets better with more models.

But, the crap paint jobs on all the promo models combined with a system that frankly looks and sounds like something I'll be bored of in a week have put me in a serious downer in relation to this game.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:31:22


Post by: streetsamurai


 Souleater wrote:
I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.


hopeully we won't, unless for a few specific gangs were they fit (maybe van saar, spyrer, ratskin and scavvies)


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:39:52


Post by: Yodhrin


 The Infinite wrote:
Is that it?

Enthusiasm is seriously ebbing at this point.

The game system seems, well, simplistic isn't the right word, simple can still provide depth, can still call for interesting decisions, that seems...
basic?
undemanding?
elementary?

Maybe it changes with 3D terrain, or gets better with more models.

But, the crap paint jobs on all the promo models combined with a system that frankly looks and sounds like something I'll be bored of in a week have put me in a serious downer in relation to this game.


I mean, what were you expecting? It's pretty much Necromunda as-was with a few tweaks taken from 8th and a few extras from back in Rogue Trader, plus alternating activations. Necromunda and Mordheim haven't survived for all this time with minimal and later zero support from GW because they were brain-geenius-super-duper-chess-stratego-master games, their strength was always the whacky gak that happened that created daft wee stories for your guys and in their detailed postgame sequences.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:42:58


Post by: streetsamurai


 Yodhrin wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:
Is that it?

Enthusiasm is seriously ebbing at this point.

The game system seems, well, simplistic isn't the right word, simple can still provide depth, can still call for interesting decisions, that seems...
basic?
undemanding?
elementary?

Maybe it changes with 3D terrain, or gets better with more models.

But, the crap paint jobs on all the promo models combined with a system that frankly looks and sounds like something I'll be bored of in a week have put me in a serious downer in relation to this game.


I mean, what were you expecting? It's pretty much Necromunda as-was with a few tweaks taken from 8th and a few extras from back in Rogue Trader, plus alternating activations. Necromunda and Mordheim haven't survived for all this time with minimal and later zero support from GW because they were brain-geenius-super-duper-chess-stratego-master games, their strength was always the whacky gak that happened that created daft wee stories for your guys and in their detailed postgame sequences.



Exactly. THe fun, tactis and strategies in necromunda comes with the post fight combat phase and the campaign rules. It's not a good system for one-off games, but it's the best one ever made (imo) for campaigns, cause it's simplicity make it perfect for introducing new skills and new gears.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:44:50


Post by: Souleater


 streetsamurai wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.


hopeully we won't, unless for a few specific gangs were they fit (maybe van saar, spyrer, ratskin and scavvies)


What's wrong with it, say, female Orlocks or Delaques?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:46:06


Post by: otcs


Female bald Delaques? lol


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 19:49:59


Post by: streetsamurai


 Souleater wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.


hopeully we won't, unless for a few specific gangs were they fit (maybe van saar, spyrer, ratskin and scavvies)


What's wrong with it, say, female Orlocks or Delaques?




Biker gangs, which are the inspiration of Orlock, don't have any female members.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious that pretty much all of the other gangs will be male only.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:07:00


Post by: Strg Alt


 Souleater wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.


hopeully we won't, unless for a few specific gangs were they fit (maybe van saar, spyrer, ratskin and scavvies)


What's wrong with it, say, female Orlocks or Delaques?


Actually nothing but GW might think that females in other gang could dilute the Escher Amazon theme. Their reasoning could be based on this assumption:
Why should anybody bother with House Escher, if you can have female gang members in all the other Houses?

Other companies have a different perspective on this. For example Freebooter´s Fate is a skirmish game with a pirate theme. All the factions in this game have female and male crew members. You can decide, if your leader/specialist/crew member is male or female.

And now to a really serious question:
Who is going to name their Escher gang "Hot Felons" and dub the corresponding leader Mirella Ponce? Rumours say she wields a one in a million purple Bolt pistol.

Mug shot:
https://www.msn.com/de-de/nachrichten/panorama/ich-wei%c3%9f-nicht-was-s%c3%bc%c3%9fer-ist-sie-oder-ihre-knarre/ar-AAu5liQ?li=BBqg6Q9&ocid=SNYDHP




Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:15:17


Post by: Nostromodamus


Ehldar wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks pretty good.

I like the jam dice mechanic, certainly makes things trickier.


Holy !! Something I recommended / hoped for (and took some flak for) actually made it into the game!?!?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780/736106.page#9563546



Well jams on the sustained fire dice in the original were a thing, so not really unexpected to see them make it in...


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:22:09


Post by: streetsamurai


NoggintheNog wrote:
Bit of a play through





that video sucked. THey didn't even talked about the tactical cards, nor tell us of there was an overwatch mechanism


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:23:53


Post by: Thargrim


I'm not too keen on laying down pinned models. This is just a peeve and not a big deal. But I had the same issue with Blood Bowl and it puts extra stress on handling/paintjobs. It doesn't look as concerning here as it would happen less often. But I would have rather they just had a pinned token or something for that. The gameplay in the video looks decent to me. I'm slightly more convinced of it now.

As for the female models, there is room for them in other gangs for variety/alternate sculpts. But the one team in the starter set consists of vat grown roided dudes and that is kind of their whole point.

I'm hoping they tease another gang soon though, shadespire had four teams teased weeks and months before it even released.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:27:48


Post by: Mr_Rose


I’m quite happy that jams and ammo are not a permanent thing anymore. No-one likes draining the battery pack on their long-las first turn and being forced to either use it as a club or go home.

Also I edited my post to add stuff about recovery.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:32:41


Post by: Ehldar


 Nostromodamus wrote:
Ehldar wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks pretty good.

I like the jam dice mechanic, certainly makes things trickier.


Holy !! Something I recommended / hoped for (and took some flak for) actually made it into the game!?!?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780/736106.page#9563546



Well jams on the sustained fire dice in the original were a thing, so not really unexpected to see them make it in...


True...but every shot can jam not just sustained, which makes a lot more sense.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:35:00


Post by: Mr_Rose


Ehldar wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
Ehldar wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks pretty good.

I like the jam dice mechanic, certainly makes things trickier.


Holy !! Something I recommended / hoped for (and took some flak for) actually made it into the game!?!?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780/736106.page#9563546



Well jams on the sustained fire dice in the original were a thing, so not really unexpected to see them make it in...


True...but every shot can jam not just sustained, which makes a lot more sense.


Yes, you can now jam and miss as well as jam and hit like the old days.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 20:57:44


Post by: The Infinite


Yodhrin wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:
Is that it?

Enthusiasm is seriously ebbing at this point.

The game system seems, well, simplistic isn't the right word, simple can still provide depth, can still call for interesting decisions, that seems...
basic?
undemanding?
elementary?

Maybe it changes with 3D terrain, or gets better with more models.

But, the crap paint jobs on all the promo models combined with a system that frankly looks and sounds like something I'll be bored of in a week have put me in a serious downer in relation to this game.


I mean, what were you expecting? It's pretty much Necromunda as-was with a few tweaks taken from 8th and a few extras from back in Rogue Trader, plus alternating activations. Necromunda and Mordheim haven't survived for all this time with minimal and later zero support from GW because they were brain-geenius-super-duper-chess-stratego-master games, their strength was always the whacky gak that happened that created daft wee stories for your guys and in their detailed postgame sequences.


I was expecting better than what was on show in that vid.
Like maybe some acknowledgement that the last 20 years have happened and tabletop gaming has moved on a long way compared with what was available back when Necromunda first hit the shelves. Maybe an attempt to update the rules to something that can at least stand in the same room as a modern miniature game without getting laughed at. Alternating activation, with no attempt at retaining initiative to coordinate troopers is... not great...
I hope there is a lot more to the game than just "I activate this model, it does its thing and now sits there like a gormless twit while the battle happens around it".
Reaction rules maybe, something to indicate you're actually involved in the game, making decisions (even limited ones) while your opponent activates their models.
If they're actually in the game, leaving them out while showcasing their new version of the game was a big mistake IMO.

streetsamurai wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:
Is that it?

Enthusiasm is seriously ebbing at this point.

The game system seems, well, simplistic isn't the right word, simple can still provide depth, can still call for interesting decisions, that seems...
basic?
undemanding?
elementary?

Maybe it changes with 3D terrain, or gets better with more models.

But, the crap paint jobs on all the promo models combined with a system that frankly looks and sounds like something I'll be bored of in a week have put me in a serious downer in relation to this game.


I mean, what were you expecting? It's pretty much Necromunda as-was with a few tweaks taken from 8th and a few extras from back in Rogue Trader, plus alternating activations. Necromunda and Mordheim haven't survived for all this time with minimal and later zero support from GW because they were brain-geenius-super-duper-chess-stratego-master games, their strength was always the whacky gak that happened that created daft wee stories for your guys and in their detailed postgame sequences.



Exactly. THe fun, tactis and strategies in necromunda comes with the post fight combat phase and the campaign rules. It's not a good system for one-off games, but it's the best one ever made (imo) for campaigns, cause it's simplicity make it perfect for introducing new skills and new gears.


Honestly, it was good for its time but there are a lot of systems with better campaigns available now. I hope they've spent a lot more time updating the campaign rules than they appear to have spent on what was on show.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 21:01:14


Post by: streetsamurai


COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 21:07:49


Post by: Galas


The problem with mixed gendered gangs is that all of sudden you don't have ultra compatible and modular kits. Many parts won't be possible to use in the other gender models of the gang.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 21:15:19


Post by: insaniak


 Thargrim wrote:
I'm not too keen on laying down pinned models. This is just a peeve and not a big deal. But I had the same issue with Blood Bowl and it puts extra stress on handling/paintjobs. It doesn't look as concerning here as it would happen less often. But I would have rather they just had a pinned token or something for that.

There's no reason you couldn't use a token instead of laying the model over.
I never had issues with paint chipping on my metal gangers though. And they spent a lot of time lying down...


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 21:23:02


Post by: Geifer


 Galas wrote:
The problem with mixed gendered gangs is that all of sudden you don't have ultra compatible and modular kits. Many parts won't be possible to use in the other gender models of the gang.


Depends. Generally agreed, but then Dark Eldar exist and don't have that problem. Delaque coats and Van Saar suits shouldn't be an issue, nor Cawdor, really. All that provided they keep the general design. With sleeveless Orlock they might not get as much modularity, though.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 21:26:15


Post by: Flashman


Have we got a table size yet? Have found that the newer skirmish games on the market work very well on 3' by 3' and wondered if they'll adopt this compact approach


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 21:29:03


Post by: Desubot


 Thargrim wrote:
I'm not too keen on laying down pinned models. This is just a peeve and not a big deal. But I had the same issue with Blood Bowl and it puts extra stress on handling/paintjobs. It doesn't look as concerning here as it would happen less often. But I would have rather they just had a pinned token or something for that. The gameplay in the video looks decent to me. I'm slightly more convinced of it now.

As for the female models, there is room for them in other gangs for variety/alternate sculpts. But the one team in the starter set consists of vat grown roided dudes and that is kind of their whole point.

I'm hoping they tease another gang soon though, shadespire had four teams teased weeks and months before it even released.


Its great for pictures but i agree

just nab some tokens.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 21:36:06


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Flashman wrote:
Have we got a table size yet? Have found that the newer skirmish games on the market work very well on 3' by 3' and wondered if they'll adopt this compact approach


Necromunda is more about height than footprint.

If you’ve got a 2x2 board that’s 2’ High with varying levels, it’s just as good as a wider footprint.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 22:23:29


Post by: TheAuldGrump


otcs wrote:
Female bald Delaques? lol




You gots a problem with that, chummer?

(Then again, I like Sinead O'Connor....)

The Auld Grump


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 22:39:49


Post by: Yodhrin


 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 22:50:56


Post by: Neronoxx


 Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 23:00:56


Post by: Crimson


 TheAuldGrump wrote:
otcs wrote:
Female bald Delaques? lol




You gots a problem with that, chummer?

Looks cool. what model is that?

I really hope there are females in other gangs too, but if there aren't I will probably convert Eschers to create mixed-gender gangs.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 23:05:11


Post by: TheAuldGrump


Neronoxx wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.
Decades later, the only tabletop game that I have enjoyed more than Necromunda has been Mordheim.

It all comes down to the campaign play, and Necromunda has a lot of flavor. Even Mordheim is not quite as tasty in that regard.

The Auld Grump


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 23:16:19


Post by: NivlacSupreme


 streetsamurai wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.


hopeully we won't, unless for a few specific gangs were they fit (maybe van saar, spyrer, ratskin and scavvies)


What's wrong with it, say, female Orlocks or Delaques?




Biker gangs, which are the inspiration of Orlock, don't have any female members.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious that pretty much all of the other gangs will be male only.




Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 23:20:05


Post by: TheAuldGrump


 Crimson wrote:
 TheAuldGrump wrote:
otcs wrote:
Female bald Delaques? lol




You gots a problem with that, chummer?

Looks cool. what model is that?

I really hope there are females in other gangs too, but if there aren't I will probably convert Eschers to create mixed-gender gangs.
That is Silk, from Heresy Miniatures - the sculptor Andy Foster did an entire not-Delaque gang, complete with heavies, specialists, and a guy doing a cartwheel....


I have a weird suspicion about what his favorite gang was.... And he included females.


As well as a guy that looks like he, well... could cut down on the cheeseburgers a bit.



Honestly, I don't know how many of my local group will be using just GW figures - I plan on using Victoria Lamb's excellent Victorians as neo-Victorian van Saar, and my wife is talking about doing... ... ... an Escher gang based on Ilsa from a series of rather nasty movies from he seventies... using characters from Raging Heroes.


The Auld Grump - there is no excuse for Megan to be doing a gang based on Ilsa - She Wolf of the SS! She hadn't even been born when that movie came out!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 23:35:29


Post by: complex57


Neronoxx wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.


The only other skirmish game that I have ever liked as much as Necromunda is This is Not a Test. I describe it to people as 'Falloutmunda'.

I'm not going to try and say it is 'better' - which is subjective - but I will say that it is the only other skirmish level game that I can think of that I enjoyed at that level.

I'm very happy that Necromunda is coming back!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 23:38:27


Post by: Orlanth


They did it right. Multipose kits for the gangs and make your own gangs with the rules mostly as they were.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/27 23:50:53


Post by: His Master's Voice


 Geifer wrote:


Depends. Generally agreed, but then Dark Eldar exist and don't have that problem.


Only because the existing plastic DE kits slapped boobs on a male torso and called it a day. It kinda works because we're fine with Space Elves being a little androgynous and even then Hesperax blows every supposedly female DE model out of contention precisely because she doesn't have to contend with limitations of a multipart kit mixing genders.

I want female Van Saar and Delaque and Orlocks, but I think I'd rather have good models over varied ones, so here's hoping GW doesn't try to force too much modular design if the deign to make a mixed gender gang in the future.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 00:01:07


Post by: Genoside07


So far what I have heard about the new version I am okay with..

Any word on the scale difference?? I know with Blood bowl figures there was some, but don't remember how bad compared from old to new..

Just would like to mix and match my stuff and not have figures stick out like a sore thumb.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 00:11:26


Post by: JoeRugby


 Genoside07 wrote:
So far what I have heard about the new version I am okay with..

Any word on the scale difference?? I know with Blood bowl figures there was some, but don't remember how bad compared from old to new..

Just would like to mix and match my stuff and not have figures stick out like a sore thumb.


If you go to the gang section on the site they show you pics of all the minis in that particular gang individually.

Adjust the image so the bases are 25mm for Esher 32 for goliath at their longest.

You can then hold up a mini to the screen to have a size comparison.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 00:12:04


Post by: Thargrim


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 Geifer wrote:


Depends. Generally agreed, but then Dark Eldar exist and don't have that problem.


Only because the existing plastic DE kits slapped boobs on a male torso and called it a day. It kinda works because we're fine with Space Elves being a little androgynous and even then Hesperax blows every supposedly female DE model out of contention precisely because she doesn't have to contend with limitations of a multipart kit mixing genders.

I want female Van Saar and Delaque and Orlocks, but I think I'd rather have good models over varied ones, so here's hoping GW doesn't try to force too much modular design if the deign to make a mixed gender gang in the future.


Plus eldar by nature are already more slender sculpt wise. The Escher models are more muscular and thick by comparison. I definitely agree i'd rather the models be good than pander to male/female variety ratios or something. I'm more worried GW will leave out or redesign the redemtionists or more blanche esque gothic/medieval gangs too much. I really like the classic medieval fanatic wacko in space with a gun kind of thing. It's important each gang be characterful and unique, and not simply bland.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 03:39:37


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.
That's just it!

The video shows you how a Necromunda scenario plays, but not how the game plays. The game is far more than moving, shooting and taking damage. So much of the game is between the scenarios.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 06:40:03


Post by: privateer4hire


Watching the video with the BoW guy (dunno if he's still with them) I see that there's a clear template/measuriing device that looks siimilar to the one from Deathwatch Overkill.

Dice in Shadespire work somewhat like the dice in Betray @ Calth. Wondering if they were using the one and done releases to test some mechanics.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 06:53:19


Post by: Grot 6


Unleash a Genestealer in the gang fight. use a random roll, if it suits your fancy.
1-2 Genestealer
3-4 Demon
5-6 Alien

The opponent moves and fires the model, for the opposite side.



So far, the game is a great child of the original. The size is just something that I will eat, because Heresy minis Not Delaques are... slightly smaller.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 07:09:15


Post by: streetsamurai


If they make us pay for the caimpaign rules, thos probably means it will not be gakky streamlined ones.a la swa. That is pretty much my biggest concern with thks new version.

Just reread the product description and it says "extremely detailed campaign rules" so i guess we're safe


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did anybody realised thst there is a rules summary sheet on the website???

Seems like overwatch is out


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 07:27:14


Post by: otcs


The hiding and overwatch may be in the extras supplement. They best be!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 07:30:03


Post by: streetsamurai


Maybe theyll be in the gang tactics cards!!!!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 07:59:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Again, the demo is clearly a quick ‘run and gun’ to show off the underlying mechanics.

The more technical stuff doesn’t really suit a fast paced demo designed to whet appetites.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 08:06:14


Post by: otcs


The reference rule sheets on website doesn't have hiding and overwatch you know.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 08:12:38


Post by: zamerion


I think that gw spoke about overwatch. But I don't remember what they said about it. Maybe action card.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 08:15:41


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


With IGOUGO, the need for Overwatch is all but removed. When it’s that style of activation, you can plan Overwatch style shots into your tactics. No need to perform them as an interrupt.

Take Cover sounds an awful lot like hiding. Make a half move then go pinned. Lying down screws with LoS, no?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 08:38:07


Post by: Vorian


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With IGOUGO, the need for Overwatch is all but removed. When it’s that style of activation, you can plan Overwatch style shots into your tactics. No need to perform them as an interrupt.

Take Cover sounds an awful lot like hiding. Make a half move then go pinned. Lying down screws with LoS, no?


You can recover from being pinned and shoot now too, so it's not like being pinned to hide is too big of a deal


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 09:07:53


Post by: Mr_Rose


Prone (pinned) models are -1 to be hit at long range too. So, yeah, quite close to hiding, if not quite.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 09:40:14


Post by: jake


 streetsamurai wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.


hopeully we won't, unless for a few specific gangs were they fit (maybe van saar, spyrer, ratskin and scavvies)


Hopefully we will. I can't see any reason at all why other gangs wouldn't include women.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
The problem with mixed gendered gangs is that all of sudden you don't have ultra compatible and modular kits. Many parts won't be possible to use in the other gender models of the gang.


It wouldn't really be a problem if the boxes had a 50/50 split, or even a 70/30 split. As long as there are multiple male models and multiple female models there should be plenty of room for customization and part switching. Also, there's nothing stopping GW from adding an extra arm or three to the sprues. And of course, we already know there will be upgrade kits, which offer even more room for diversity.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 09:44:36


Post by: Vorian


You'd imagine Ratskins would at least given the prominence of the female Ratskin artwork.

And the Spyrers have always had females, so you'd imagine they'd be back again.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 09:46:10


Post by: Geifer


 Thargrim wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
 Geifer wrote:


Depends. Generally agreed, but then Dark Eldar exist and don't have that problem.


Only because the existing plastic DE kits slapped boobs on a male torso and called it a day. It kinda works because we're fine with Space Elves being a little androgynous and even then Hesperax blows every supposedly female DE model out of contention precisely because she doesn't have to contend with limitations of a multipart kit mixing genders.

I want female Van Saar and Delaque and Orlocks, but I think I'd rather have good models over varied ones, so here's hoping GW doesn't try to force too much modular design if the deign to make a mixed gender gang in the future.


Plus eldar by nature are already more slender sculpt wise. The Escher models are more muscular and thick by comparison. I definitely agree i'd rather the models be good than pander to male/female variety ratios or something. I'm more worried GW will leave out or redesign the redemtionists or more blanche esque gothic/medieval gangs too much. I really like the classic medieval fanatic wacko in space with a gun kind of thing. It's important each gang be characterful and unique, and not simply bland.


Eldar I think work because the more androgynous space elf physique is coupled with a bulky chest plate (especially from the back) that is gender neutral. Lelith doesn't have that, so she sticks out next to other Dark Eldar.

The reason I think this could work better for Necromunda gangers is that Dark Eldar modular kits are, as said, made by sticking boobs on a torso and an otherwise androgynous design. This is likely not an issue with Necromunda (I haven't watch the how to build videos yet) as torsos and legs are not interchangeable, so the difference is in the arms. It could be possible to design generic arms without compromising much to fit both male and female bodies, and of course there's the other option of having male and female arms specific to to their respective bodies with the interchangeable parts being generic hands and weapons.

The biggest issue I see isn't actually the females but the male arms because of the heroic proportions. GW has a thing for super buff builds, at least on bare arms (see their history of Fantasy marauders, also Catachans). Sleeveless humans usually look heavily muscled and you would see a significant size difference between males and females hat you wouldn't get on more realistically sculpted 32mm models. Compare that to the one size fits all sleeves of Delaque gangers. There really shouldn't be an issue there.

I agree though that to me, retaining their style is much more important than having a mixed gender gang. Not the least because I don't play at a GW store and can use 3rd party models to supplement the official one if I feel like it. Also, Orlock is my house of choice and they are very generic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jake wrote:
 Galas wrote:
The problem with mixed gendered gangs is that all of sudden you don't have ultra compatible and modular kits. Many parts won't be possible to use in the other gender models of the gang.


It wouldn't really be a problem if the boxes had a 50/50 split, or even a 70/30 split. As long as there are multiple male models and multiple female models there should be plenty of room for customization and part switching. Also, there's nothing stopping GW from adding an extra arm or three to the sprues. And of course, we already know there will be upgrade kits, which offer even more room for diversity.


Realistically you'd be looking at a 60/40 split as it looks like the gangs are designed around five unique bodies and the box doubling up on sprues to make ten models.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 09:56:51


Post by: The Infinite


Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


You know what they say about when you assume...


Neronoxx wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.


You need to branch out of purely mini gaming then, Shadows off Brimstone (either Hexcrawl or using the now-available expansions) runs an awesome campaign.

TheAuldGrump wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.
Decades later, the only tabletop game that I have enjoyed more than Necromunda has been Mordheim.

It all comes down to the campaign play, and Necromunda has a lot of flavor. Even Mordheim is not quite as tasty in that regard.

The Auld Grump


I seriously loved Mordheim, though its campaign benefitted from a "GM-like" influence (and the massive support it got to "fix" it in various publications)>

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Again, the demo is clearly a quick ‘run and gun’ to show off the underlying mechanics.

The more technical stuff doesn’t really suit a fast paced demo designed to whet appetites.


Fine, but not to BoW who feature full game vids of more complex systems on their site. The GW staffer did a poor job of pitching to his audience if there is more to the game than he showed.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:With IGOUGO, the need for Overwatch is all but removed. When it’s that style of activation, you can plan Overwatch style shots into your tactics. No need to perform them as an interrupt.

Take Cover sounds an awful lot like hiding. Make a half move then go pinned. Lying down screws with LoS, no?


Yeah...no.
I disagree entirely, IGOUGO with no interrupts, reactions, coordination etc. is simply unacceptable when compared with what else is available.

As it stands, the stuff left out had better be almost game changing to drag the quality up to a level I'd want to play more than a couple of times. The chances of the campaign being the main "game" with the tactical combat only being a mini-game (like XCom, where base management is the "game" and the tactical combat, air combat (first game) and map exploration (second game) are the mini-games) seems unlikely.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 10:01:04


Post by: Groundh0g


Not a big fan of the "DLC" model making it's way to tabletop. Looking forward to the miniatures, but I'll be using them with This Is Not a Test...


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 10:05:35


Post by: AndrewGPaul


The more "in-depth" BoW videos are hosted at BoW's own venue, though. This video is simply them muscling into a demo table at a show - exactly the sort of place where you should be offering a quickie game to the punters because they've got other things to see and you've got other people to demo to. There'll be a queue of people waiting for these numpties with a camcorder to get out of the way; not the time to be running an hour-long game and explaining all the mechanics.



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 10:15:11


Post by: BrookM


It's better to wait for folks who know what they're doing and have their hands on a review copy to properly dissect it all.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 11:05:31


Post by: Yodhrin


 The Infinite wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


You know what they say about when you assume...


That you're making the best guess you can from whatever information you have available? Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean if there's something more to your objection feel free to lay it out, but your argument seemed to pretty much boil down to "this is too much like Necromunda, I wanted a totally different 'modern' game".



You need to branch out of purely mini gaming then, Shadows off Brimstone (either Hexcrawl or using the now-available expansions) runs an awesome campaign.


Total War: Warhammer II has a great campaign as well so long as we're listing cool things that don't have any bearing on the discussion, but responding to "nobody has actually pointed out the superior alternative to Necromunda yet" with "well all you have to do is look in an entirely different genre of product" is farcical.

I seriously loved Mordheim, though its campaign benefitted from a "GM-like" influence (and the massive support it got to "fix" it in various publications)>


Mordheim didn't have a GM-like anything, it was a straight-up scenario-based "PvP" campaign game like Necromunda, and they both got extensive post-launch support initially from GW magazines and websites and eventually via the community. In fact your comment is really weird to me since in terms of the type of support each game received Mordheim seemed to get much more campaign and story content than rules fixes especially from the community side of things, while the Necromunda community seems to have put far more effort into revising the core rules - there's a full "Community Edition" rulebook and supplements available for Necromunda, no such thing exists for Mordheim which is still reliant on groups adopting "best practice" house rules to fix the issues(and no, that abominable horror show that occasionally pops up which is just a stitched-together compilation of every official and fan warband, scenario, and bit of gear with zero indication what's official or not or even what's been playtested or not is in no way equivalent to the NCE).


Yeah...no.
I disagree entirely, IGOUGO with no interrupts, reactions, coordination etc. is simply unacceptable when compared with what else is available.


First, it's not IGOUGO, that's what we had in the previous version of Necromunda and virtually every other GW game, it's Alternating Activation, and the entirely point of using that system is that you don't need to bog down the turn sequence with ten different interrupts and exceptions because your opportunity to act and react is built-in to the sequence. The "game" is in positioning your models to give you the most opportunities to react while also achieving your own goals. And you've still to point out exactly "what else is available" that's so much better - if you want to draw comparisons, you have to provide us with at least a clue to what it is your drawing them against.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 12:10:47


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah, why are people calling this IGOUGO. It's not that at all.

It's an initiative/priority based system. It's more akin to combat in the 40K RPGs than traditional GW games.

And if they are going to have Hiding and Overwatch, I'd rather they be skills than permanent standard rules.

Oh, also, from the GW Community Site:

Finally, we’ve had loads of questions from Necromunda fans about when Delaque, Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar will be joining Goliath and Escher in glorious plastic. We’re pleased to say that Necromunda: Underhive and Gang War will be but the first of many Necromunda releases. While Goliath and Escher will be available in their own boxes from day one, they’ll be followed by the four other Great Houses in 2018. If you’re eager to get stuck in straight away, make sure to like the Necromunda Facebook page for the latest news and updates about the game, and be sure to check out the Necromunda website.





Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 12:50:19


Post by: Mr_Rose


So… Gang War isn’t DLC? There is a strong implication that one could buy the book and a gang and be done there. Maybe templates and dice would be an issue?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 13:19:22


Post by: Geifer


 Mr_Rose wrote:
So… Gang War isn’t DLC? There is a strong implication that one could buy the book and a gang and be done there. Maybe templates and dice would be an issue?


I fail to see a strong indication. Did I miss something? The book covers read "rule book" for the one in the boxed set and "gaming supplement" for Gang War. That to me suggests that you need both.

Pictures spoilered for size:

Spoiler:




Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 13:22:06


Post by: Shadox


 Mr_Rose wrote:
So… Gang War isn’t DLC? There is a strong implication that one could buy the book and a gang and be done there. Maybe templates and dice would be an issue?


Definitely seems that way. But I doubt they won't start selling the dice and templates separately again. I hope so at least as the other gangs interest me far more.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 13:46:05


Post by: AndrewGPaul


On thee 18th of November, there will be two products for sale; the Necromunda Underhive box and the Gang War book.

The Underhive box will be required for everyone* It will have the core rules, the rules for recruiting a gang (i.e. how many points a ganger costs, weapons, etc) and the dice and templates. It'll be a complete single-purchase game in a box - you could happily buy that, assemble the two pre-designed gangs from the models included and play as many games as you like with just that.

Gang War adds rules for 3D terrain and the campaign rules (essentially, it's the old Sourcebook sold separately). It's not the complete rulebook.

*At the moment. The rulebook and dice and templates may be available separately. But there's been no word on if that will be the case. Taking Blood Bowl as an example, you can buy the rules digitally through the iOS app, but you still need to buy the box set to get the dice and templates.



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 13:55:29


Post by: tneva82


Two gangs seems to be on their own from day 1 too


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 14:00:41


Post by: Nostromodamus



While Goliath and Escher will be available in their own boxes from day one, they’ll be followed by the four other Great Houses in 2018.



Well, I'm glad they narrowed down a timeframe for us at last...


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 14:19:42


Post by: JohnnyHell


Was always going to be thus. Bang out the Core box for Christmas, extra gangs in the New Year. Keep the cash flow trickling in.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 14:24:26


Post by: Neronoxx


Spoiler:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one


Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.


You know what they say about when you assume...


That you're making the best guess you can from whatever information you have available? Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean if there's something more to your objection feel free to lay it out, but your argument seemed to pretty much boil down to "this is too much like Necromunda, I wanted a totally different 'modern' game".



You need to branch out of purely mini gaming then, Shadows off Brimstone (either Hexcrawl or using the now-available expansions) runs an awesome campaign.


Total War: Warhammer II has a great campaign as well so long as we're listing cool things that don't have any bearing on the discussion, but responding to "nobody has actually pointed out the superior alternative to Necromunda yet" with "well all you have to do is look in an entirely different genre of product" is farcical.

I seriously loved Mordheim, though its campaign benefitted from a "GM-like" influence (and the massive support it got to "fix" it in various publications)>


Mordheim didn't have a GM-like anything, it was a straight-up scenario-based "PvP" campaign game like Necromunda, and they both got extensive post-launch support initially from GW magazines and websites and eventually via the community. In fact your comment is really weird to me since in terms of the type of support each game received Mordheim seemed to get much more campaign and story content than rules fixes especially from the community side of things, while the Necromunda community seems to have put far more effort into revising the core rules - there's a full "Community Edition" rulebook and supplements available for Necromunda, no such thing exists for Mordheim which is still reliant on groups adopting "best practice" house rules to fix the issues(and no, that abominable horror show that occasionally pops up which is just a stitched-together compilation of every official and fan warband, scenario, and bit of gear with zero indication what's official or not or even what's been playtested or not is in no way equivalent to the NCE).


Yeah...no.
I disagree entirely, IGOUGO with no interrupts, reactions, coordination etc. is simply unacceptable when compared with what else is available.


First, it's not IGOUGO, that's what we had in the previous version of Necromunda and virtually every other GW game, it's Alternating Activation, and the entirely point of using that system is that you don't need to bog down the turn sequence with ten different interrupts and exceptions because your opportunity to act and react is built-in to the sequence. The "game" is in positioning your models to give you the most opportunities to react while also achieving your own goals. And you've still to point out exactly "what else is available" that's so much better - if you want to draw comparisons, you have to provide us with at least a clue to what it is your drawing them against.


I hear the Goosebumps pick your own adventure books have a great campaign.
Checkmate Necromunda!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 15:34:25


Post by: The Infinite


 Yodhrin wrote:


That you're making the best guess you can from whatever information you have available? Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean if there's something more to your objection feel free to lay it out, but your argument seemed to pretty much boil down to "this is too much like Necromunda, I wanted a totally different 'modern' game".



What argument? You're literally reading my name and my dissatisfaction with the game system presented in the video and extrapolating down some seemingly random path.

I liked the two actions on activation (and the different action choices), I liked the addition of aiming as an action in place of movement, I liked the jam mechanic, I liked the different stats for the models rather than every house having the same base stats.
(mainly QOL changes/additions to the original system)

I didn't like that models couldn't react to being shot, or that seeing an enemy move/act in line of sight didn't enable any triggers/interrupts (though those may still be available), or that there were no conditional/delayed skills (again, thus far).
I didn't like the flat to hit stats in close combat (better suited to mass battle games rather than skirmish scale IMO), or that it resolved on charge order rather than being an actual contest (arguably one of the better mechanics 40K 2nd Ed ported to Necromunda).
I didn't like there was no seize/steal initiative mechanic (so far).
(all developments that have been successfully implemented over the past two decades in a variety of miniature games to great improvement over 1990's game design)

I'm in two minds as to whether I like the the cover template/ruler or not, on the one hand it simplifies cover mechanics somewhat, on the other it looks like complexity for its own sake rather than writing a solid ruleset.
I'm in two minds as to whether I like a stat card for each model, table space is always a premium and having to find space for a lot of supplementary cards instead of an app or print-out seems backwards.

I could go on, but you get the gist.

The game as presented appears incredibly basic and as I said, I hope the stuff left out actually enables player choice and brings about a lot more depth of play.


 Yodhrin wrote:

Total War: Warhammer II has a great campaign as well so long as we're listing cool things that don't have any bearing on the discussion, but responding to "nobody has actually pointed out the superior alternative to Necromunda yet" with "well all you have to do is look in an entirely different genre of product" is farcical.


Oh yeah a miniature game played on card tiles with extensive campaign and character advancement systems is entirely different to the new Necromunda, I see exactly what you're saying [/sarcasm]


 Yodhrin wrote:

Mordheim didn't have a GM-like anything, it was a straight-up scenario-based "PvP" campaign game like Necromunda, and they both got extensive post-launch support initially from GW magazines and websites and eventually via the community. In fact your comment is really weird to me since in terms of the type of support each game received Mordheim seemed to get much more campaign and story content than rules fixes especially from the community side of things, while the Necromunda community seems to have put far more effort into revising the core rules - there's a full "Community Edition" rulebook and supplements available for Necromunda, no such thing exists for Mordheim which is still reliant on groups adopting "best practice" house rules to fix the issues(and no, that abominable horror show that occasionally pops up which is just a stitched-together compilation of every official and fan warband, scenario, and bit of gear with zero indication what's official or not or even what's been playtested or not is in no way equivalent to the NCE).


I'm guessing from your flag that English isn't your native language so let me explain. I was saying that Mordheim was made even better when a player took up the mantle of the GM role and managed the campaign actively rather than everyone just playing the game as a "scenario-based "PvP"" system. The post launch support is the best thing Mordheim received, it took a solid enough game and made it a whole lot better.

 Yodhrin wrote:
First, it's not IGOUGO, that's what we had in the previous version of Necromunda and virtually every other GW game, it's Alternating Activation, and the entirely point of using that system is that you don't need to bog down the turn sequence with ten different interrupts and exceptions because your opportunity to act and react is built-in to the sequence. The "game" is in positioning your models to give you the most opportunities to react while also achieving your own goals. And you've still to point out exactly "what else is available" that's so much better - if you want to draw comparisons, you have to provide us with at least a clue to what it is your drawing them against.


That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.

I'm waiting to see what else there is from this release, and will now certainly wait for reviews rather than take a chance on buying this game day one.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:20:59


Post by: His Master's Voice


 The Infinite wrote:


That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.


Ignoring the above statement which I simply cannot take seriously, you still haven't provided any examples of systems that are so clearly superior to the alternate activation with tactics card system Necromunda seems to be going for.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:31:33


Post by: tneva82


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:


That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.


Ignoring the above statement which I simply cannot take seriously, you still haven't provided any examples of systems that are so clearly superior to the alternate activation with tactics card system Necromunda seems to be going for.


Guess same model needs to be moving like 5 times in a turn for game to be modern and respectable rules


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:32:52


Post by: jake


 Groundh0g wrote:
Not a big fan of the "DLC" model making it's way to tabletop.


Well, you're about 40 years to late then. Tabletop gaming has been operating on a "DLC model" since the 80's.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:35:23


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Umm... no it hasn't.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:37:13


Post by: Galas


Then I suppose all those "Core-set expansions", Rules supplements, etc... existed only on my imagination?

This stink because is a "Day-1 DLC", that makes you wonder "If it is allready done, why don't they just put it on the base product"? And thats a legitimate critizism. I agree with it, even.



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:38:39


Post by: Neronoxx


Some dillusional statements in here...
Regardless, at least we have a timeframe to work by. It seems GW would like us to have time to paint.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:39:28


Post by: Kanluwen


I just need to know when Arbites are going to get sweet, sweet models.

That's all I need to know.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:42:06


Post by: tneva82


 Galas wrote:
Then I suppose all those "Core-set expansions", Rules supplements, etc... existed only on my imagination?

This stink because is a "Day-1 DLC", that makes you wonder "If it is allready done, why don't they just put it on the base product"? And thats a legitimate critizism. I agree with it, even.



So supplement coming year later means game is day 1 DLC? At least back in '90's many games I got had supplements coming not on day 1 and indeed could come years later.

But ok Warhammer is obviously all day 1 DLC since codexes are spread out years with last ones being completed years later.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:43:25


Post by: Neronoxx


 Galas wrote:
Then I suppose all those "Core-set expansions", Rules supplements, etc... existed only on my imagination?

This stink because is a "Day-1 DLC", that makes you wonder "If it is allready done, why don't they just put it on the base product"? And thats a legitimate critizism. I agree with it, even.



I mean, I can understand why they would sell it separately as the new box sets being marketed as a refined version without campaign stuff.
But I think if they included it, the price would have increased anyways, so its probably a wash.
As a computer and electronics sales associate, I'm used to things not coming with other important things.
And yeah, the game industry has always ascribed to the expansion method of generating additional revenue. It just doesn't look like DLC


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:45:04


Post by: Galas


tneva82 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Then I suppose all those "Core-set expansions", Rules supplements, etc... existed only on my imagination?

This stink because is a "Day-1 DLC", that makes you wonder "If it is allready done, why don't they just put it on the base product"? And thats a legitimate critizism. I agree with it, even.



So supplement coming year later means game is day 1 DLC? At least back in '90's many games I got had supplements coming not on day 1 and indeed could come years later.

But ok Warhammer is obviously all day 1 DLC since codexes are spread out years with last ones being completed years later.


Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say here.


Neronoxx wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Then I suppose all those "Core-set expansions", Rules supplements, etc... existed only on my imagination?

This stink because is a "Day-1 DLC", that makes you wonder "If it is allready done, why don't they just put it on the base product"? And thats a legitimate critizism. I agree with it, even.



I mean, I can understand why they would sell it separately as the new box sets being marketed as a refined version without campaign stuff.
But I think if they included it, the price would have increased anyways, so its probably a wash.
As a computer and electronics sales associate, I'm used to things not coming with other important things.
And yeah, the game industry has always ascribed to the expansion method of generating additional revenue. It just doesn't look like DLC


I have no problem with expansions. They are (Where) great. One of my favourite products of all time, Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne was an Expansion. I know Expansions are generally gone (Ignoring some strange cases like The Witcher 3 ones, etc...) and we live in the age of DLC's.
But even then, DLC's can be made in many ways. Day-1 DLC's, don't feel right. Is even worse when the contect is already there, you need to pay to "Unlock" it. In Videogames this is more obvious.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:48:31


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


The boxed game is designed as a contained gaming experience.

But that and nothing else, and you’ve still got a fully functioning board game (at least in theory, as none of us have really seen the book).

The Gang War book is an expansion, a way to do more and add more.

It’s not a compulsory purchase to make the boxed game work.

That’s not exactly Day one DLC.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:49:47


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Eh? "Day 1 DLC" means exactly that - additional content available on ... day 1. Not supplements coming later on.

The usual reasons for supplements are:
1) stuff wasn't ready for the release date - obviously not applicable
2) additional material that wouldn't fit in the base game - probably not the case here
3) it's not really part of the base game, but here it is if you want it - seems to be the reasoning here. The base game is the two specific Goliath and Escher gangs (I wouldn't be surprised if there's background explaining a personal feud between the gang leaders) in the Underhive. All the rest - the other Houses, games in Hive City (i.e. on 3D terrain), creating your own gangs and progressing them game after game - has been deemed as extras. so it's being sold separately.

The Gang War book will probably be twenty quid - If that were included in the box set, the price probably wouldn't have gone up by £20, but it could perhaps have gone above the price point they wanted, so it's on sale separately.

Edit - are videogames these days really literally unplayable without paying for this "day 1 DLC"? Or are you just at a disadvantage compared to other people if you don't partake?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:51:06


Post by: Galas


If one videogame comes with a contained single-player gaming experience and ask you to pay 20 bucks to unlock the multiplayer-competitive mode... thats a damm Day one DLC.

To be honest, I have no problems buying the core box and the Supplement. But I still think is a bad practice.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:54:23


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Why is it a bad practice? It's giving me more choice. If I'm buying this to play with my kid, for instance, and the campaign material is irrelevant to me, I don't need to buy it. Going with your computer game analogy, that sounds like a great deal - multiplayer has never been a selling point for a game for me, so if I don't need to buy that module, great!

If this book were a limited print run, or not available in Spain or something, then that'd be different.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 16:57:35


Post by: Galas


Adding 150-200 more pages to a Bulk printed rulebook, so the base game contains more, instead of less, even if you don't want to use it, doesn't costs GW enough to justify making the basic box more expensive.

Of course, the elephant in the room is: If they can separate it, and gain more money, why whouldn't they? And they did it. A business is a business to gain money, they don't have any obligation of being "ethical". Even being "ethical" is more a marketing strategy than anything else.

So, I'm gonna bite their strategy and give them more money. But to me is pretty obvious that no, this is not a "consumer friendly", or consumer-anything movement from them.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:14:15


Post by: streetsamurai


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The boxed game is designed as a contained gaming experience.

But that and nothing else, and you’ve still got a fully functioning board game (at least in theory, as none of us have really seen the book).

The Gang War book is an expansion, a way to do more and add more.

It’s not a compulsory purchase to make the boxed game work.

That’s not exactly Day one DLC.


Lol, lets be honest, no one will play the game whithout the campaign system. Its an obviojs day one dlc. Not that i really care, but lets call a spade a spade


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:21:30


Post by: The Infinite


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:


That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.


Ignoring the above statement which I simply cannot take seriously, you still haven't provided any examples of systems that are so clearly superior to the alternate activation with tactics card system Necromunda seems to be going for.


Since we haven't seen the full system yet, let alone played it or formed a full judgement on it, that's an utterly absurd demand.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:22:03


Post by: streetsamurai


And the decision has nothing to do with keeping the price of the box low. 60 pages more in a rulebook wont have much of an impact on production and logistic cost, and even if it would, they could have then put it for free on a pdf on the web site. I said it before, but i fully expect gw to nickel and dime us to death with necro. Luckily for them, im so happy that the game is coming back that i will happily oblige


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:24:04


Post by: Chikout


It is worth pointing out that Blood bowl followed exactly the same release structure with death zone season one launched on the same day as the core game.
Blood bowl launched with an app where you could (and still can) buy a bundle of the core rules and death zone for £15.
It seems likely that Necromunda will do something similar.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:28:45


Post by: lord_blackfang


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, why are people calling this IGOUGO. It's not that at all.

It's an initiative/priority based system. It's more akin to combat in the 40K RPGs than traditional GW games.


From the video it looks like a bog standard alternating activation system.

Heaps of people think this is what IGOUGO means because that's what it sounds like - "I do a thing, then you do a thing". It really implies fast turnover. IGOUGO is not a great term for "I do all the things for 30 minutes, then you do all the things for 30 minutes".


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:29:31


Post by: His Master's Voice


 The Infinite wrote:


Since we haven't seen the full system yet, let alone played it or formed a full judgement on it, that's an utterly absurd demand.


And yet you do seem to have a rather strong opinion on individual components of the system that by your own admission you've never seen in action.

You also equated alternate activation to igougo, so I don't think asking you for what you consider the superior alternative is somehow absurd.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:38:49


Post by: The Infinite


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:


Since we haven't seen the full system yet, let alone played it or formed a full judgement on it, that's an utterly absurd demand.


And yet you do seem to have a rather strong opinion on individual components of the system that by your own admission you've never seen in action.

You also equated alternate activation to igougo, so I don't think asking you for what you consider the superior alternative is somehow absurd.


So I've said I don't like all that I've seen and am reserving judgement until more info is available and reviews are out, and in your mind that equates to "a rather strong opinion".
Right...

I understand the differences in the two systems, they are both however from the same game design school of thought that seems to limit decision making to your own turn, making you a bystander when your opponent is acting (be that for a full turn or for a single activation, it is irrelevant). I'm not a fan of that design choice. Now, should that be mitigated in some way, enabling player interaction and decision making in some manner, then I'll be more inclined to look favourably on it. And finally, I'm not about to start making comparisons with other games just using my limited knowledge, before the new system is out and before anyone's had a chance to play it.
Your absurd demands are rejected.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 17:52:20


Post by: Tyr13


 The Infinite wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:


Since we haven't seen the full system yet, let alone played it or formed a full judgement on it, that's an utterly absurd demand.


And yet you do seem to have a rather strong opinion on individual components of the system that by your own admission you've never seen in action.

You also equated alternate activation to igougo, so I don't think asking you for what you consider the superior alternative is somehow absurd.


So I've said I don't like all that I've seen and am reserving judgement until more info is available and reviews are out, and in your mind that equates to "a rather strong opinion".
Right...

I understand the differences in the two systems, they are both however from the same game design school of thought that seems to limit decision making to your own turn, making you a bystander when your opponent is acting (be that for a full turn or for a single activation, it is irrelevant). I'm not a fan of that design choice. Now, should that be mitigated in some way, enabling player interaction and decision making in some manner, then I'll be more inclined to look favourably on it. And finally, I'm not about to start making comparisons with other games just using my limited knowledge, before the new system is out and before anyone's had a chance to play it.
Your absurd demands are rejected.


In a perfect world, turns wouldnt be necessary. But the world isnt perfect, and people arent going to pay attention to their opponent while theyre moving their own models. IGOUGO and alternate activation are options, with random activation, action points etc being others. But playing simultaneously just bogs games down. Sure, its not great if you have to wait 30min to take your turn, but thats why alternate acitvation is a thing - instead of waiting for your opponent to do *everything*, you just have to wait til theyve activated a single unit/model. Its still *far* preferable to any sort of simultaneous system, simply because it leads to a far more relaxed atmosphere. You have time to think, to plan while your opponent does his thing.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:15:27


Post by: The Infinite


 Tyr13 wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
 The Infinite wrote:


Since we haven't seen the full system yet, let alone played it or formed a full judgement on it, that's an utterly absurd demand.


And yet you do seem to have a rather strong opinion on individual components of the system that by your own admission you've never seen in action.

You also equated alternate activation to igougo, so I don't think asking you for what you consider the superior alternative is somehow absurd.


So I've said I don't like all that I've seen and am reserving judgement until more info is available and reviews are out, and in your mind that equates to "a rather strong opinion".
Right...

I understand the differences in the two systems, they are both however from the same game design school of thought that seems to limit decision making to your own turn, making you a bystander when your opponent is acting (be that for a full turn or for a single activation, it is irrelevant). I'm not a fan of that design choice. Now, should that be mitigated in some way, enabling player interaction and decision making in some manner, then I'll be more inclined to look favourably on it. And finally, I'm not about to start making comparisons with other games just using my limited knowledge, before the new system is out and before anyone's had a chance to play it.
Your absurd demands are rejected.


In a perfect world, turns wouldnt be necessary. But the world isnt perfect, and people arent going to pay attention to their opponent while theyre moving their own models. IGOUGO and alternate activation are options, with random activation, action points etc being others. But playing simultaneously just bogs games down. Sure, its not great if you have to wait 30min to take your turn, but thats why alternate acitvation is a thing - instead of waiting for your opponent to do *everything*, you just have to wait til theyve activated a single unit/model. Its still *far* preferable to any sort of simultaneous system, simply because it leads to a far more relaxed atmosphere. You have time to think, to plan while your opponent does his thing.


I agree, there are various ways to abstract within the frame of a game system (different "schools of thought" so to speak) and I'm sure we all have preferences to different ways it has been done or could be done (simultaneous play can be a lot of fun, though I've only seen it in board games so far and I have no idea how it'd be ported to a miniature game). I like to be engaged with the game and feel like I can influence events, even if only slightly, as often as possible; it's been a long time since I've enjoyed any game where I've had to sit waiting for my opponent to finish before I can do anything other than "plan".


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:15:44


Post by: Yodhrin


 The Infinite wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:


That you're making the best guess you can from whatever information you have available? Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean if there's something more to your objection feel free to lay it out, but your argument seemed to pretty much boil down to "this is too much like Necromunda, I wanted a totally different 'modern' game".



What argument? You're literally reading my name and my dissatisfaction with the game system presented in the video and extrapolating down some seemingly random path.


Then perhaps you should have laid out your thoughts properly the first time instead of just saying "it's rubbish, not modern enough, bleh".

I liked the two actions on activation (and the different action choices), I liked the addition of aiming as an action in place of movement, I liked the jam mechanic, I liked the different stats for the models rather than every house having the same base stats.
(mainly QOL changes/additions to the original system)

I didn't like that models couldn't react to being shot, or that seeing an enemy move/act in line of sight didn't enable any triggers/interrupts (though those may still be available), or that there were no conditional/delayed skills (again, thus far).


The need for triggered responses and interrupts is largely negated by the turn format. What we saw in the video was a con-show floor demo game with three models per side, considering they didn't even bother to cover several mechanics we know for a fact are in the game, making judgements on what is and isn't in the game on the basis of the video is, to say the least, premature.

I didn't like the flat to hit stats in close combat (better suited to mass battle games rather than skirmish scale IMO), or that it resolved on charge order rather than being an actual contest (arguably one of the better mechanics 40K 2nd Ed ported to Necromunda).
I didn't like there was no seize/steal initiative mechanic (so far).


I'm entirely ambivalent regarding the specific dice mechanic used to determine hit rolls, but I do strongly prefer charge order because it at least allows low-Int models a chance to win a fight if you can set up the charge properly, while Initiative order makes low-Int models worthless in melee unless they're extremely tough. I don't get your complaint about a seizing mechanic, players dice off at the start of each game turn to choose who goes first or second, and after that point it's alternate model activation, interrupting that sequence would either be pointless or completely unbalanced depending on how you went about it.

(all developments that have been successfully implemented over the past two decades in a variety of miniature games to great improvement over 1990's game design)


Such a great variety you still can't actually bring yourself to name any, but regardless, that's your opinion of what would be a great improvement not an absolute objective fact - plenty of people are going to be disappointed that this isn't a straight-up re-release of the original Necromunda rulebook with some typo fixes, so evidently there are still plenty of fans of 1990's game design floating around.

I'm in two minds as to whether I like the the cover template/ruler or not, on the one hand it simplifies cover mechanics somewhat, on the other it looks like complexity for its own sake rather than writing a solid ruleset.
I'm in two minds as to whether I like a stat card for each model, table space is always a premium and having to find space for a lot of supplementary cards instead of an app or print-out seems backwards.


It simplifies the cover mechanics but is also complexity for its own sake? You were right the first time around; "can you see it yes/no, does it have one line or two" is actually admirably concise by GW rules writing standards, making LoS far less contentious without resorting to the verbiage necessary for a category-based cover system. I don't care for cards myself, but it'll take five minutes to stick the blanks to a sheet of paper, scan it, and have unlimited Roster Sheets in the new format, assuming they don't just provide them online or someone else hasn't already done it, a bit of a nitpick that one.

I could go on, but you get the gist.


I do. It's almost as if laying out your actual argument for people to read rather than making some ambiguous comments and then getting annoyed when people interpret them in the obvious way makes your view easier to understand, whodathunk.



Oh yeah a miniature game played on card tiles with extensive campaign and character advancement systems is entirely different to the new Necromunda, I see exactly what you're saying [/sarcasm]


A miniatures board game is in no way the same thing as a skirmish tabletop wargame that provides 2D printed terrain in the box - by all accounts Necromunda will function equally well on FW Zone Mortalis tiles, or your own custom tunnel layout, a miniature boardgame is just a boardgame with fancy counters, they are demonstrably different. You're basically arguing that death metal and Spanish folk music are basically the same thing because they're both music and they both have guitars in them



I'm guessing from your flag that English isn't your native language so let me explain. I was saying that Mordheim was made even better when a player took up the mantle of the GM role and managed the campaign actively rather than everyone just playing the game as a "scenario-based "PvP"" system. The post launch support is the best thing Mordheim received, it took a solid enough game and made it a whole lot better.


Ooooh, dude, making snarky comments about assumptions in one post and then trying to guzzle down your own foot in the next isn't a good look - I use a VPN, my forum flag changes several times a day. I've never felt the need to "GM" a Mordheim campaign, if you set them up properly the run themselves, and the rest is down to player attitude in your group, I don't see any reason Newcromunda won't work exactly the same way.

That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.


Even if it were merely a semantic argument, when you're discussing what a thing is or isn't semantics are fairly vital chief. IGOUGO and alternate activation are entirely different methods of constructing the turn sequence. IGOUGO is the traditional GW/eww gross 1990's way of doing things; order of play is determined at the start of the game, each player takes all possible actions with their whole army, then the other player does the same, etc until completion. Alternate Activation typically determines order of play more than once, in this case with a dice-off at the start of each game-turn(Bolt Action uses a blind-picking mechanic, other games use card draw etc), then players alternate taking actions with individual models. AA doesn't require specific mechanics to address the quirks of IGOUGO because it does so inherently - interrupt and reaction mechanics are only needed in IGOUGO-based systems because otherwise you have huge tracts of dead time where one player isn't able to affect the tabletop in a meaningful way; AA means players are constantly acting and reacting over the course of the turn.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:19:34


Post by: Sqorgar


 Galas wrote:
Adding 150-200 more pages to a Bulk printed rulebook, so the base game contains more, instead of less, even if you don't want to use it, doesn't costs GW enough to justify making the basic box more expensive.
It likely costs more than you think. In addition to the added cost of simply printing and binding another 200 pages, it would greatly increase the weight of the game and make it more expensive to ship around the world. Not to mention that a heavier book would require additional packaging (like Dark Vengeance) to secure the book from destroying the sprues (like Deadzone). If I had to guess, it would add several dollars to the base costs, which would translate to an addition $15-$20 (at least) for the end user - the Blood Bowl books are only $25 to $30, so the savings to you probably aren't worth the loss of potential new players a more expensive box would entail.

Of course, the elephant in the room is: If they can separate it, and gain more money, why whouldn't they? And they did it. A business is a business to gain money, they don't have any obligation of being "ethical". Even being "ethical" is more a marketing strategy than anything else.
What GW is doing here, and did with Blood Bowl, is smart. It creates a tiered system that allows new players a complete experience at a price they are willing to pay without a lot of extraneous rules they may not be interested in initially, while more experienced players have an avenue towards the more extensive game. It's why something like 40k has three different starter sets, all designed around three different types of players. Necromunda also has three different starter sets - the core box alone, the core box + book, and just the book (if it is anything like the other lifestyle games GW makes, all the stuff in the core set will be available separately at some point in the near future). It separates the advanced version of Necromunda from the self contained boxed version.

While I understand wanting the box to be a product for experienced players, that's not what is really being offered. GW does have an avenue for upgrading it while still keeping the box set appropriate for potential new customers who are unfamiliar with GW games or Necromunda, or who might be more comfortable with board games than miniature games.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:34:07


Post by: Galas


Sqorgar, all what you are saying is correct. I can understand the appeal to new players, and in the end, I believe is a good move, because a easier first experience for players, is better to the community as a whole..
But I'm not a new player, so at least for me this isn't as good as it could.. But as you said, I don't believe the gangs wars book is gonna be expensive, so is a minimal difference at the end, at least from the economical standpoint.







Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:34:08


Post by: tneva82


 The Infinite wrote:


I agree, there are various ways to abstract within the frame of a game system (different "schools of thought" so to speak) and I'm sure we all have preferences to different ways it has been done or could be done (simultaneous play can be a lot of fun, though I've only seen it in board games so far and I have no idea how it'd be ported to a miniature game). I like to be engaged with the game and feel like I can influence events, even if only slightly, as often as possible; it's been a long time since I've enjoyed any game where I've had to sit waiting for my opponent to finish before I can do anything other than "plan".


So player A wants to do model. Player B then interrupts or whatever to influence that one model activation. Player A then would be interrupting and doing something else to influence player B influencing player A. Player B then does something else to influence player A influencing player B influencing player A...Hmmm...YEah there\s limit on what influence makes sense. With IGOUGO reactions etc are useful. With alternative activations not needed.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:41:23


Post by: streetsamurai


Ii must say that i really appreciate, in all its absurdity, the argument that making you pay an extra for the advanced rules, is good for the players community. GW really did a hell of a job of convincing a few that it can do no wrong.

And i especially like the 200 extra pages argument, considering it was announced that gang war was a whooping 64 pages


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:50:17


Post by: Galas


I totally forgot that Gang Wars was 64 pages. Yeah, I'll go back to what I said before, theres 0 economical reasons to arguee that putting those 64 extra pages in the core rulebook would make the core box more expensive


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 18:59:37


Post by: Albertorius


otcs wrote:
Female bald Delaques? lol


Yes?



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 19:00:05


Post by: streetsamurai


About 4 pages too late my frien lol


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 19:08:21


Post by: Sabotage!


 Nostromodamus wrote:

While Goliath and Escher will be available in their own boxes from day one, they’ll be followed by the four other Great Houses in 2018.



Well, I'm glad they narrowed down a timeframe for us at last...


That is a huge let down, I was hoping that at least a few of the gangs would be out in December. Thanks for posting that H.B.M.C. and Nostromodamus!

On a side note I logged in today and saw three new pages of content from when I logged in yesterday and thought "GW must have posted some new stuff already.....awesome!" only to find three pages of people arguing about the the merits of different turn structures and whether or not Necromunda should be more like Infinity. Not to be rude, but would you gents mind taking that conversation to messages or another thread so we don't get this one closed down as well?


Edit: Giving credit where it's due.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 20:04:52


Post by: Albertorius


 streetsamurai wrote:
About 4 pages too late my frien lol


Yeah, noticed it afterwards ^_^. This thread's big!


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 20:09:21


Post by: Sqorgar


 Galas wrote:
Sqorgar, all what you are saying is correct. I can understand the appeal to new players, and in the end, I believe is a good move, because a easier first experience for players, is better to the community as a whole..
But I'm not a new player, so at least for me this isn't as good as it could.. But as you said, I don't believe the gangs wars book is gonna be expensive, so is a minimal difference at the end, at least from the economical standpoint.
I had a whole paragraph on how it was so completely different from DLC (which I loathe), but decided to focus only on the ethical aspects of a day one expansion. I was all like, "no man, this isn't DLC. Let me tell you some gak about DLC" and then ended up not even posting it. DLC/expansions as a concept is not bad. It's software licenses, exploitative gambling, tying the goods to services that screw you over, requiring online verification, and all that which is bad. If GW ever tries to get people to sign up for a subscription service (even a free one) for their games, that's when you know to abandon ship.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 20:36:11


Post by: Mr_Rose


Uh, guys, we already know there are going to be interrupts available in the form of tactic cards. We just don’t know how/when those will be allocated to players yet.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 21:43:52


Post by: Strg Alt


Just watched the video and up to now I have nothing to complain about. Does anybody know how many double-sided board sections will be in the box?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 22:00:29


Post by: Thargrim


 Strg Alt wrote:
Just watched the video and up to now I have nothing to complain about. Does anybody know how many double-sided board sections will be in the box?


The necromunda site shows 9 square double sided sections:



the toxic sludge looks pretty cool.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 22:13:23


Post by: Genoside07


Yeah and a lot cheaper way to play than paying full price for ZONE MORTALIS..


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 22:23:35


Post by: Strg Alt


 Thargrim wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
Just watched the video and up to now I have nothing to complain about. Does anybody know how many double-sided board sections will be in the box?


The necromunda site shows 9 square double sided sections:



the toxic sludge looks pretty cool.


Thanks for the info. I presume some scenarios will use all board sections provided for the game just as in Deathwatch Overkill. I guess this will be enough to accomodate twenty gangers at once without getting crowded. We will have to see how this will work out with advanced gangs with 10+ models on the roster. But deaths, old battle wounds and serious injuries will hopefully keep the total number from skyrocketing. If I remember correctly the only gang that could rapidly increase their total number with cheesy tactics were the Plague Zombies. I hope GW will tone down their ability to multiply with ease even if it would be fluffy to allow them to do so.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 22:54:30


Post by: Mr_Rose


All nine together in a square is a 6'×6' board. I recall Necromunda being happily played on 4'×4' boards, though with elevated terrain. There should, nevertheless, be plenty of space.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 23:06:36


Post by: Thargrim


I hope it doesn't get too big personally, when you end up fielding a bunch of models per side i'd say it might feel less of a skirmish game. The only table I have to game on is about 3x3 and it fits shadespire perfectly with a bit of room to spare. Hopefully I can do smaller matches with these necromunda tiles as well consisting of maybe 4 of these tiles or something around that number.

I definitely plan on sleeving those tactics cards as well (any indication as to where the cards in the box are standard size?) Plus. I know it sucks there won't be more gangs until 2018 but by the time this is out it will be around mid november and really there won't be a whole lot of time left before next year anyways so it's fine by me.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 23:12:27


Post by: Skyven


 Mr_Rose wrote:
All nine together in a square is a 6'×6' board. I recall Necromunda being happily played on 4'×4' boards, though with elevated terrain. There should, nevertheless, be plenty of space.


The boards are 1ft square. Nine will make a 3 x 3 ft square.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/28 23:47:10


Post by: Azazelx


 The Infinite wrote:

Honestly, it was good for its time but there are a lot of systems with better campaigns available now. I hope they've spent a lot more time updating the campaign rules than they appear to have spent on what was on show.


So what are some of these games with better campaigns that fit into the same genre as Necromunda? Shadows is basically WHQ with a GM, so, like Descent, it's not the same thing as Necro, which is PVP and doesn't require or involve a GM, and I don't feel that Frostgrave is on the same level as original Necro/Mordheim/GM. Regardless, you can that there's a lot of systems, so surely there are some skirmish games that fit the bill.

I'm genuinely interested, since I don't only play GW games or use GW models, and there's always other good product out there. Surely you can name a few of them that I can check out?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sqorgar wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Adding 150-200 more pages to a Bulk printed rulebook, so the base game contains more, instead of less, even if you don't want to use it, doesn't costs GW enough to justify making the basic box more expensive.
It likely costs more than you think. In addition to the added cost of simply printing and binding another 200 pages, it would greatly increase the weight of the game and make it more expensive to ship around the world. Not to mention that a heavier book would require additional packaging (like Dark Vengeance) to secure the book from destroying the sprues (like Deadzone). If I had to guess, it would add several dollars to the base costs, which would translate to an addition $15-$20 (at least) for the end user - the Blood Bowl books are only $25 to $30, so the savings to you probably aren't worth the loss of potential new players a more expensive box would entail.


The expansion is apparently 64 pages. I have no idea why whoever it was mentioned 200 pages, because they just set up a whole lot of points that hurt their argument, as you point out.

I should point out though - that GW would not need to increase the price at all for an extra 64 or 200 pages. Boxed starter sets aren't especially price-pointed around the cost of components, and we keep hearing that the physical boxes that most plastic sets cost more to produce than the models inside (citation needed, I agree) - but the point remains that the cost of the components isn't the driving force for the RRP of their products.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:
otcs wrote:
Female bald Delaques? lol


Yes?
Spoiler:



IKR? Bald women just wouldn't work. They'd look stupid. Silly with no hair. Not tough or menacing at all. Right? Right?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having just read through the entire thread, there's something I'm surprised that people haven't picked up on.

Despite the fact that they've said they will free-.pdf some rules for legacy gangs as a temporary measure, I believe that the new releases of the gangs will be sold in Shadespire-type expansion boxes, including their own sets of tactics cards - and possibly bespoke "preset narrative" gang cards to fit in with the named gangs from the core box.

 Mymearan wrote:

Tactics cards can be used to represent the myriad tricks and schemes employed by the gangs. There are three types of Tactics cards:
Gang Tactics, which can be used by any gang
Escher Tactics, which can only be used by House Escher gangs
Goliath Tactics, which can only be used by House Goliath gangs



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 00:24:14


Post by: squall018


Thats a good catch. I completely missed the tactics cards being gang exclusive.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 00:25:48


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Also, in case this wasn't already known, the Gang War book is the first in a series. There will be more of them, expanding the game over time.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Heaps of people think this is what IGOUGO means because that's what it sounds like - "I do a thing, then you do a thing". It really implies fast turnover. IGOUGO is not a great term for "I do all the things for 30 minutes, then you do all the things for 30 minutes".
Be that as it may, it is what is meant by IGOUGO.

40k is IGOUGO.
Original Necromunda was IGOUGO.
Newcromunda isn't.

Simple as that.

 Sabotage! wrote:
That is a huge let down, I was hoping that at least a few of the gangs would be out in December.
I agree, but GW don't tend to do new things in December. They just usually do bundles.



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 00:55:41


Post by: Azazelx


 squall018 wrote:
Thats a good catch. I completely missed the tactics cards being gang exclusive.


Yeah. Expect Shadespire-style (FFG style?) gang packs.


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Also, in case this wasn't already known, the Gang War book is the first in a series. There will be more of them, expanding the game over time.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Heaps of people think this is what IGOUGO means because that's what it sounds like - "I do a thing, then you do a thing". It really implies fast turnover. IGOUGO is not a great term for "I do all the things for 30 minutes, then you do all the things for 30 minutes".
Be that as it may, it is what is meant by IGOUGO.

40k is IGOUGO.
Original Necromunda was IGOUGO.
Newcromunda isn't.

Simple as that.


Yeah, "alternating activation" might technically be IGOUGO, but it's not what we mean by that. Which is why we have both terms.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 01:27:25


Post by: Galas


Technically, every game that isn't simultaneous, is IGOUGO, so yes, people saying that alternating activations is the same as the classic gameplay experience people refers as IGOUGO is just being disingenuous.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 03:05:26


Post by: Groundh0g


 jake wrote:
 Groundh0g wrote:
Not a big fan of the "DLC" model making it's way to tabletop.


Well, you're about 40 years to late then. Tabletop gaming has been operating on a "DLC model" since the 80's.


Um, no. Expansions, sure. But leaving out (existing) core content to release as expansions is not something that has been around for 40 years, unless my memory fails me. It was the same with Blood Bowl.

As I said, love the minis and I will pick up a gang or two, but zero interest in GW's rules or business model. There are better sci fi skirmish rules around than Necromunda these days, even if it served as the origin for nearly all of them, along with Mordheim.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 03:59:03


Post by: Sqorgar


 Groundh0g wrote:
Um, no. Expansions, sure. But leaving out (existing) core content to release as expansions is not something that has been around for 40 years, unless my memory fails me. It was the same with Blood Bowl.
I'm not personally familiar with it, but isn't this kind of a Basic vs Advanced Dungeons and Dragons situation?


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 04:20:20


Post by: Sleipnir


 Galas wrote:
Technically, every game that isn't simultaneous, is IGOUGO, so yes, people saying that alternating activations is the same as the classic gameplay experience people refers as IGOUGO is just being disingenuous.


I see what you are saying, but honestly, I think the standards in rules development is just making that less and less true. Sure there are turn structures and active/reactive player timing sequences, but rules writers have figured out a lot of ways to keep both players in the decision making process at this point. There are a lot of games where two models on both sides can fall over dead at effectively the same time, and both players were making decisions about the outcome.

To be brutally honest, listening to the vast majority of GW players talk about table top game mechanics is like listening to Everquest or Vanilla World of Warcraft players trying to use their frame of reference to talk about current day MMO mechanics. Its like they know what an MMO is, while also knowing less about modern day MMO than a person who has never heard the term MMO due to preconceptions.

GW is unrepentantly stuck in the past on the rules mechanics front. There are a lot of mega grind fest MMOs with flashy graphics that get published. Consumers of those products are not wrong. They are just exceptionally wrong if they think those products are especially representative of current thinking on MMOs.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 04:30:48


Post by: Voss


 Sqorgar wrote:
 Groundh0g wrote:
Um, no. Expansions, sure. But leaving out (existing) core content to release as expansions is not something that has been around for 40 years, unless my memory fails me. It was the same with Blood Bowl.
I'm not personally familiar with it, but isn't this kind of a Basic vs Advanced Dungeons and Dragons situation?

Not even vaguely.
Basic & Advanced D&D were two different product lines with related but distinct rules.
They're more akin to different editions that happened to overlap in time.



Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 04:36:24


Post by: Sqorgar


Voss wrote:
 Sqorgar wrote:
I'm not personally familiar with it, but isn't this kind of a Basic vs Advanced Dungeons and Dragons situation?

Not even vaguely.
Basic & Advanced D&D were two different product lines with related but distinct rules.
They're more akin to different editions that happened to overlap in time.
Like I said, I'm not personally familiar with it. I'm just going by the Wikipedia description that says, "Although the Basic Set was not fully compatible with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, players were expected to continue play beyond third level by moving to AD&D"


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 04:38:50


Post by: Galas


Sleipnir wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Technically, every game that isn't simultaneous, is IGOUGO, so yes, people saying that alternating activations is the same as the classic gameplay experience people refers as IGOUGO is just being disingenuous.


I see what you are saying, but honestly, I think the standards in rules development is just making that less and less true. Sure there are turn structures and active/reactive player timing sequences, but rules writers have figured out a lot of ways to keep both players in the decision making process at this point. There are a lot of games where two models on both sides can fall over dead at effectively the same time, and both players were making decisions about the outcome.

To be brutally honest, listening to the vast majority of GW players talk about table top game mechanics is like listening to Everquest or Vanilla World of Warcraft players trying to use their frame of reference to talk about current day MMO mechanics. Its like they know what an MMO is, while also knowing less about modern day MMO than a person who has never heard the term MMO due to preconceptions.

GW is unrepentantly stuck in the past on the rules mechanics front. There are a lot of mega grind fest MMOs with flashy graphics that get published. Consumers of those products are not wrong. They are just exceptionally wrong if they think those products are especially representative of current thinking on MMOs.


Oh, I agree. Mechanics change, and what was good 10-15-20 years ago isn't good anymore. Many things improve, others just change. But this isn't a full new game. This is Necromunda. Is a purely nostalgia driven release. They have give it a nice face cleanup but in the end it remains the same game.
Will it be an impediment to his grow and popularization? We have the example of Bloodbowl. The nostalgia push was MASSIVE when it released, but as you said, the 20-years old rules ended up drowning it, like an anchor to the neck.

So yes, I believe Necromunda isn't gonna have the sucess it has 20 years ago. But, you know what? It doesn't need to have it. Shadowpire is this new, ultra competitive, fast game with slow preparation time and tight ruleset, made to appeal to the new trends of the market.
GW is trying to make products to all kinds of players. Nostalgic veterans, new players, even board-gamers and ... COMPETITIVE players! You know, the kind of players GW even refused to acknowledge that they existed


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 04:46:24


Post by: MangoMadness


 Sqorgar wrote:
Like I said, I'm not personally familiar with it. I'm just going by the Wikipedia description that says, "Although the Basic Set was not fully compatible with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, players were expected to continue play beyond third level by moving to AD&D"


Edit - that was the original 1977 edition, the next edition incorporated extra box sets.

The Basic Set was levels 1-3 then there was Expert which was from 4-10? then Companion Set and Masters and then Immortals.

Each Box set allowed the transition of players to higher levels of D&D, at no stage did they cross over to AD&D


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 07:07:02


Post by: xerxeshavelock


I notice that the gang roster doesn't have stats for each fighter. I wonder if that means development will be purely skill and equipment based?

Mordheim I thought was rather clever in the way it limited the amount of conversions you had to do by saying only characters could change equipment. I can see a similar practice here.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 07:11:51


Post by: notprop


Apologies that has nothing to do with mechanic bunk rather the game at hand....

So we have Tactics Cards that are gang specific, Ganger profile cards and seperate release of the Escher/Goliath gangs day one or so.

Anyone else think that there could be a possible XWing-like release of special cards in the gang boxes that aren't in the main box realease ala Shadespire?

Not a good or bad thing but could make the extra gang boxes a must buy for more cards.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 07:49:40


Post by: Vorian


 Galas wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Technically, every game that isn't simultaneous, is IGOUGO, so yes, people saying that alternating activations is the same as the classic gameplay experience people refers as IGOUGO is just being disingenuous.


I see what you are saying, but honestly, I think the standards in rules development is just making that less and less true. Sure there are turn structures and active/reactive player timing sequences, but rules writers have figured out a lot of ways to keep both players in the decision making process at this point. There are a lot of games where two models on both sides can fall over dead at effectively the same time, and both players were making decisions about the outcome.

To be brutally honest, listening to the vast majority of GW players talk about table top game mechanics is like listening to Everquest or Vanilla World of Warcraft players trying to use their frame of reference to talk about current day MMO mechanics. Its like they know what an MMO is, while also knowing less about modern day MMO than a person who has never heard the term MMO due to preconceptions.

GW is unrepentantly stuck in the past on the rules mechanics front. There are a lot of mega grind fest MMOs with flashy graphics that get published. Consumers of those products are not wrong. They are just exceptionally wrong if they think those products are especially representative of current thinking on MMOs.


Oh, I agree. Mechanics change, and what was good 10-15-20 years ago isn't good anymore. Many things improve, others just change. But this isn't a full new game. This is Necromunda. Is a purely nostalgia driven release. They have give it a nice face cleanup but in the end it remains the same game.
Will it be an impediment to his grow and popularization? We have the example of Bloodbowl. The nostalgia push was MASSIVE when it released, but as you said, the 20-years old rules ended up drowning it, like an anchor to the neck.

So yes, I believe Necromunda isn't gonna have the sucess it has 20 years ago. But, you know what? It doesn't need to have it. Shadowpire is this new, ultra competitive, fast game with slow preparation time and tight ruleset, made to appeal to the new trends of the market.
GW is trying to make products to all kinds of players. Nostalgic veterans, new players, even board-gamers and ... COMPETITIVE players! You know, the kind of players GW even refused to acknowledge that they existed


Blood bowl that they have sold us has been a success beyond their most optimistic projections? That game still getting regular releases?

Wish I could sink like a stone in such a fashion.

A lot of pretentious nonsense on games design in this thread.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 07:58:15


Post by: Dr. Mills


 notprop wrote:
Apologies that has nothing to do with mechanic bunk rather the game at hand....

So we have Tactics Cards that are gang specific, Ganger profile cards and seperate release of the Escher/Goliath gangs day one or so.

Anyone else think that there could be a possible XWing-like release of special cards in the gang boxes that aren't in the main box realease ala Shadespire?

Not a good or bad thing but could make the extra gang boxes a must buy for more cards.


X-Wings cards are for specific characters, that add much more power. Necromunda cards are simply tactics that may or may not be useful in a situation, and as such aren't directly compared.
Also, you must realise Shadespire is considered a competitive game, and as such require specific cards in gang boxes for game balance.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 08:32:44


Post by: notprop


I'm thinking more fixedcharacter cards and tactics cards would push the game in a more limited a pay to play direction.

The roster GW have listed up is purely for listing costs not character information as well. It indicates fixed characters to me.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 08:55:41


Post by: tneva82


Empty character sheets indicates customizable characters to me.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 09:07:26


Post by: Yodhrin


 notprop wrote:
I'm thinking more fixedcharacter cards and tactics cards would push the game in a more limited a pay to play direction.

The roster GW have listed up is purely for listing costs not character information as well. It indicates fixed characters to me.


They state right there in the video that the game box comes with two "premade" gangs, essentially they provide completed roster cards for the models if you assemble them as-per the instruction booklet. There are also blank roster cards and you can still create an entirely custom warband.

Just like the card play surface, the "premade" gangs are there for new people who're buying a complete boxed game, they no more mean the system is moving to Shadespire-style fixed characters than the card play surface means they're turning it into a boardgame.


Necromunda Underhive - pg 163 Sumpkroc @ 2017/10/29 09:22:13


Post by: Breotan


 notprop wrote:
I'm thinking more fixedcharacter cards and tactics cards would push the game in a more limited a pay to play direction.

The roster GW have listed up is purely for listing costs not character information as well. It indicates fixed characters to me.

Okay, what about the blank character cards? What do those indicate?