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Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 01:13:41


Post by: broxus


So the next 8th ed codex is Blood Angels! Lets start speculating what is in it and sharing any rumors we get here.

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/03/news-codexes-heroes-blood-glorygw-homepage-post-3/


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 01:33:52


Post by: Ben2


broxus wrote:
So the next 8th ed codex is Blood Angels! Lets start speculating what is in it and sharing any rumors we get here.

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/03/news-codexes-heroes-blood-glorygw-homepage-post-3/


Quote the whole announcement - 1 Imperial and 1 Chaos codex before Christmas, 1 Chaos codex after.

Blood Angels then Dark Angels, then Chaos Demons in January.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 02:46:26


Post by: Red__Thirst


I'd like to see our Relics list. I'm optimistic for a couple of melee weapons, a ranged weapon, some defensive wargear (Jump Pack that helps prevent/ignore overwatch, and/or a Death Mask that does the same) a set of ornate artificer or terminator armor with some cool rules, etc.

Warlord Traits that help a variety of playstyles (Mech'd up transport heavy to descent of angels, to first company/Archangels+Sanguinary guard to Death Company heavy lists.

Point adjustments are going to be welcome, and I really hope we get things that will help us be dangerous in our own way in melee.

I also hope we get access to the Land Speeder Storm, and the other smaller space marine flyers to complement the Storm Raven.

Looking forward to the codex leaks to start soon once the Tyranid codex releases.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 03:30:42


Post by: casvalremdeikun


I am looking forward to the Blood Angels Dex. I am interested to see what they have in store for our Rhino-type tanks, Jump Troops, and the Death Company.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 04:12:11


Post by: broxus


I’ve heard at a GW store the BA chapter trait is +1 to all charge and run rolls for infantry/dreads. Not sure how reliable she is, but thought I would share.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 04:22:25


Post by: Red__Thirst


That would be excellent, and coupled with rerolling from Lemartes makes Death Company even better. Nice, simple, always on boost is preferable to only having it work if we get the charge off a-la previous furious charge.

I hope we see strategems that allow us to break from a combat and charge in the same turn. Would be quite helpful for Death Company for sure.

Fingers crossed that's what we get, or something equally useful.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 06:09:08


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am looking forward to the Blood Angels Dex. I am interested to see what they have in store for our Rhino-type tanks, Jump Troops, and the Death Company.


BA can easily have +1 or 2 to the move stat of Rhino hulls.
BA and DA are easy codices to come out with minimal model releases. Probably just Cypher single for DA and nothing else. Was sort of thinking the Lion would be the next Primarch model, but maybe not if the codex is coming out this soon. Maybe it will be Russ when the SW codex comes out, with him being on the far side of the warp storms from Terra and Guilliman.
Daemons, maybe this will be when the rumored Beasts of Nurgle and GUO come out. Jan does seem like a month for a model release codex.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 06:41:53


Post by: diepotato47


+1 to charge and run would be excellent. Shame there's no new kits though, unless we might be seeing a Primaris Upgrade kit?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 10:28:52


Post by: Crimson


There might be upgrade sprues for Primaris, as current Primaris rule PDF gives BA Intercessor sergeants chainswords instead of power swords that other chapters get. Neither come in the Intercessor kit, but the power sword comes in Ultramarine upgrade sprue, so presumably the chainsword comes in BA one.

It of course is completely bonkers that a CC oriented chapter is the one restricted to a much worse weapon...


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 10:35:38


Post by: The Deer Hunter


Hoping in the inclusion in our Codex of Speeder Storm and Storm Talon.

Pred Baal and Furioso viable again, and a more resilient Death Company.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 10:38:04


Post by: p5freak


I would be disappointed if its only +1 to charge and advance, thats would be the weakest chapter tactic of all SM chapters.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 11:38:29


Post by: NoggintheNog


Plastic Dante and Mephiston please.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 13:44:04


Post by: xerxeshavelock


NoggintheNog wrote:
Plastic Dante and Mephiston please.

As long as they don't use the same sculptor as Typhus.....


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 14:05:18


Post by: Bremon


p5freak wrote:
I would be disappointed if its only +1 to charge and advance, thats would be the weakest chapter tactic of all SM chapters.
Yeah, it seems like garbage. Deep strike marines still won’t get charges off as much as Black Templars, and if the answer to that is “bring special characters!” then BA are still the dumpster fire they currently are.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 14:18:13


Post by: Karhedron


Most Traits we have seen so far come in 2 parts. +1" to charge or advance rolls is fine and fluffy as long as the other part has some more punch to it.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 14:33:38


Post by: AAN


 Crimson wrote:
There might be upgrade sprues for Primaris, ...


Hmm, do we really Need upgrade sprues?
My BA Primaris are completely done with currently available parts!

see more here: http://www.adpublishing.de/html/primaris.html

diepotato47 wrote:
+1 to charge and run would be excellent.

Agreed! Add Roboute = win.

p5freak wrote:
I would be disappointed if its only +1 to charge and advance, thats would be the weakest chapter tactic of all SM chapters.

IMO Salamander and Black Templars are weaker...


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 14:40:57


Post by: TalonZahn


I did the same thing with my Primaris BA since the parts fit fine.

I even used the same parts on my Captain that you did on yours, lol.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 14:42:36


Post by: Bremon


Without spending CP BT are more likely to make a charge, and Salamanders trait is incredibly useful for the MSU marine meta by buffing special and heavy weapons in squads, especially tac squads that you pay your troop tax with, but that’s how opinions work.

Your Primaris look absolutely fantastic btw, and I say that as someone who hates marines without helmets. Beautifully done.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 14:44:35


Post by: Crimson


 AAN wrote:

Hmm, do we really Need upgrade sprues?
My BA Primaris are completely done with currently available parts!

We don't need them, but GW no longer believes that people can make simple weapon swaps; this is why Primaris sergeants and characters have gak for options. And it was pretty conspicuous that the Primaris PDF gave different weapon options for the non-codex chapters.

(Your marines look amazing.)


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 14:50:05


Post by: AAN


 Crimson wrote:
 AAN wrote:

Hmm, do we really Need upgrade sprues?
My BA Primaris are completely done with currently available parts!

We don't need them, but GW no longer believes that people can make simple weapon swaps; this is why Primaris sergeants and characters have gak for options. And it was pretty conspicuous that the Primaris PDF gave different weapon options for the non-codex chapters.

(Your marines look amazing.)


Hmm, looking at the Eldar Codex that might be true. The way the Autarch rules were downsized to the current release speaks volumes, are the loss of the Spinnaret rifle for Spider Exarchs...
In a way it is strange that the Index has sometimes more options as the Codex!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 15:07:22


Post by: Morkphoiz


inb4 Martel fills this thread with black rage


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 16:00:43


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 AAN wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
There might be upgrade sprues for Primaris, ...


Hmm, do we really Need upgrade sprues?
My BA Primaris are completely done with currently available parts!

see more here: http://www.adpublishing.de/html/primaris.html

diepotato47 wrote:
+1 to charge and run would be excellent.

Agreed! Add Roboute = win.

p5freak wrote:
I would be disappointed if its only +1 to charge and advance, thats would be the weakest chapter tactic of all SM chapters.

IMO Salamander and Black Templars are weaker...

...Im sorry, but how in the cornbread hell is a straight reroll to charge weaker than a +1 to charge? There's probably so few scenarios it's the worst choice.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 16:10:02


Post by: AAN


A +1 to all advance moves and charges are IMO more reliable. It depends a lot on playstyles etc.
I like the card driven missions the most, the extra move to get another objective is gold!

But again, depends on how and what you play.
So far I played my Primaris BA with the Ultramarine rules.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 16:39:08


Post by: Bremon


I use jump packs to deep strike onto those objectives. If there’s something on them, I shoot them with plasma because charges are too unreliable. Rerolling charges is more powerful so long as you have more than one unit coming in from orbit. If you only have one, +1” is better due to CP reroll.

+1” to advances doesn’t mean much unless you play infantry heavy. Jump infantry, bikes, etc. don’t care so much.

I stand by the idea that +1” advance and charge is trash tier, down with Imperial Fists. I play “Blood Salamanders” currently, and have largely shelved my Primaris stuff, so there’s a clear difference of opinion between us.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 22:35:51


Post by: broxus


Well it’s better than you think. Deep striking units would only need an 8” charge and it would stack with Lemartes reroll (70%+ chance to make the charge). Also, think of how well that stack magna grapple on dreadnaughts. It will add +3 to your charge rolls.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 23:19:14


Post by: Bremon


As far as BA continuing along the FLG train of thought where they need special characters to be decent, thanks, but no thanks. Lemartes can die in a fire lol. Keep him in stasis where he belongs.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/04 23:24:47


Post by: craggy


I'd just be happy to get more easily available heavy flamers for my guys.

edit: model-wise. I love that we can take them in Tac squads. Although I have considered a 4 strong heavy flamer Dev squad with a Sgt with combi-flamer for super jumping out of a Razorback and scorched earth tactics


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 00:44:36


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Bremon wrote:
I use jump packs to deep strike onto those objectives. If there’s something on them, I shoot them with plasma because charges are too unreliable. Rerolling charges is more powerful so long as you have more than one unit coming in from orbit. If you only have one, +1” is better due to CP reroll.

+1” to advances doesn’t mean much unless you play infantry heavy. Jump infantry, bikes, etc. don’t care so much.

I stand by the idea that +1” advance and charge is trash tier, down with Imperial Fists. I play “Blood Salamanders” currently, and have largely shelved my Primaris stuff, so there’s a clear difference of opinion between us.

Which uses CP. You're not getting a lot of CP unless you're using Ultramarines with Rowboat.

Yeah you got a chance to make a 13" charge. I'm not gonna bank on that though.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 00:46:27


Post by: Bremon


Yes,exactly, which is why I think the rumoured CT is trash tier.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 01:06:10


Post by: brother_b


As far as movement goes a +2" would be great but too powerful. So if we really do get something movement wise the +1" ensures we're quicker but not too powerful. I just hope they combine it with advance + charge, which would add up to 2" extra movement and make jump teams starting on the map that much better.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 06:16:52


Post by: broxus


Any predictions on points reductions?

My bet is the following: Death Company, Dante, Furioso Dread, Death Company Dread, Sanguinary Guard, Astorath, Baal Preadator, and maybe The Sanguinor. All of these units cost to much currently. The only way to make them viable is to buff them and/or reduce their costs.

Any ideas how they will buff Death Company?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 06:45:11


Post by: p5freak


broxus wrote:
Any predictions on points reductions?

My bet is the following: Death Company, Dante, Furioso Dread, Death Company Dread, Sanguinary Guard, Astorath, Baal Preadator, and maybe The Sanguinor. All of these units cost to much currently. The only way to make them viable is to buff them and/or reduce their costs.

Any ideas how they will buff Death Company?


You forgot the Inferno pistol, very overpriced. I hope they buff flamers for us, or reduce points, we like to burn our enemys. I would like to be able to deepstrike 9" - D3 from enemy units. Maybe a stratagem which does that ? That way we can use flamers. DC is ok points wise, and buff wise, S+1 would be nice.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 07:21:16


Post by: pantheralegionnaire


So far all the Codex releases have reduced points costs so as to allow better theming fluff-wise. So, I am hoping for that. I am also hoping for some help in regards to Alpha strike options since it seems that DC are the only really BA option in terms of making us distinct from other Chapters. If Sanguinary Guard get some help too, it would go a long way towards helping us move away from being "the red ones."

I'm also intrigued by what the expanded Sanguinary Psychic discipline will look like. I'm hoping to see something that attacks low Leadership, which might make the -1 modifier of Death masks more useful too.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 10:49:54


Post by: Drudge Dreadnought


I used to run a Dante+Sanguinary guard list. Really hoping to see that come back. Dante needs to get Hit and Run back, and Sanguinary guard weapons are massively overpriced. Having Death Masks be priced per model is also now very annoying, as I have all mine modeled with them, but now there is no reason to take more than 1.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 11:19:46


Post by: casvalremdeikun


I don't like that Dante and Sanguinary Guard don't really go together well. Hopefully something is done about that.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 18:59:42


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


I just really want the ability to use Dante with Death Company in an allied detachment. Not much wrong with that request!

That said, anyone want to give the math on a straight reroll to charge vs the +1" on the charge? I can't think of a lot of situations where I'd want the latter.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 19:21:29


Post by: niv-mizzet


If we had +1 advance/charge, +1 attack on everyone, and an extra point of AP on all melee attacks, we might manage to slide into the upper tier. I doubt we'd get all that though. GW doesn't seem to have the faintest idea that BA are and have been super weak and if they do, they don't understand why.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/05 22:59:50


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 niv-mizzet wrote:
If we had +1 advance/charge, +1 attack on everyone, and an extra point of AP on all melee attacks, we might manage to slide into the upper tier. I doubt we'd get all that though. GW doesn't seem to have the faintest idea that BA are and have been super weak and if they do, they don't understand why.

They're weak because some people are insistent on keeping them as a separate codex.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 03:38:19


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
If we had +1 advance/charge, +1 attack on everyone, and an extra point of AP on all melee attacks, we might manage to slide into the upper tier. I doubt we'd get all that though. GW doesn't seem to have the faintest idea that BA are and have been super weak and if they do, they don't understand why.

They're weak because some people are insistent on keeping them as a separate codex.
They have a ton of exclusive units. More than Death Guard and Thousand Sons (both of which get their own codex). It would be hard to fit them into Codex Space Marines.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 03:42:36


Post by: Galas


People will never stop complaining about the big space marine chapters having their own codex will they?

Get over it guys. Now Chaos will have those too. Feel happy about the players, you are wishing for players to be screw over by GW In a naive desire that GW will give you the attention that has taken away from them. But you know that it is not true. You know it.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 04:12:49


Post by: Bremon


Harsh reality is that more people likely spend more money on BA, DA, SW than some of the less popular armies. Whether that’s because marines are more popular concept or because GW spends more money on and puts more effort into marines is a chicken/egg thing but the less codex adherent chapters have had books since 2nd; before a lot of other armies were ever around, so they get no sympathy from me for their ill-will. The problem is GW, not fans of the off-shoot chapters.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 04:57:42


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
If we had +1 advance/charge, +1 attack on everyone, and an extra point of AP on all melee attacks, we might manage to slide into the upper tier. I doubt we'd get all that though. GW doesn't seem to have the faintest idea that BA are and have been super weak and if they do, they don't understand why.

They're weak because some people are insistent on keeping them as a separate codex.
They have a ton of exclusive units. More than Death Guard and Thousand Sons (both of which get their own codex). It would be hard to fit them into Codex Space Marines.

Well the generic Apothecary is its own character now, and Sanguine Guard are basically Honour Guard with Jump Packs.
Really outside a couple of equipment options and Death Company there's nothing you can't do to just throw them in the big book. I say the same for Dark Angels too, who have even less unique stuff going on for them.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 06:01:36


Post by: tneva82


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
If we had +1 advance/charge, +1 attack on everyone, and an extra point of AP on all melee attacks, we might manage to slide into the upper tier. I doubt we'd get all that though. GW doesn't seem to have the faintest idea that BA are and have been super weak and if they do, they don't understand why.

They're weak because some people are insistent on keeping them as a separate codex.
They have a ton of exclusive units. More than Death Guard and Thousand Sons (both of which get their own codex). It would be hard to fit them into Codex Space Marines.

Well the generic Apothecary is its own character now, and Sanguine Guard are basically Honour Guard with Jump Packs.
Really outside a couple of equipment options and Death Company there's nothing you can't do to just throw them in the big book. I say the same for Dark Angels too, who have even less unique stuff going on for them.


Same could be said of thousand sons and death guard. Lets remove thosn codexes then as well.

Ain't happenikg


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 11:23:10


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


tneva82 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
If we had +1 advance/charge, +1 attack on everyone, and an extra point of AP on all melee attacks, we might manage to slide into the upper tier. I doubt we'd get all that though. GW doesn't seem to have the faintest idea that BA are and have been super weak and if they do, they don't understand why.

They're weak because some people are insistent on keeping them as a separate codex.
They have a ton of exclusive units. More than Death Guard and Thousand Sons (both of which get their own codex). It would be hard to fit them into Codex Space Marines.

Well the generic Apothecary is its own character now, and Sanguine Guard are basically Honour Guard with Jump Packs.
Really outside a couple of equipment options and Death Company there's nothing you can't do to just throw them in the big book. I say the same for Dark Angels too, who have even less unique stuff going on for them.


Same could be said of thousand sons and death guard. Lets remove thosn codexes then as well.

Ain't happenikg

Yeah actually I'd prefer those removed as well.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 13:00:23


Post by: Bremon


We can squat any army that doesn’t have more than a couple options in each unit type. So let’s ditch most Imperium offshoots and get back to the days of just Marines, Eldar, Nids, Guard, Chaos, etc. Now they’ll only have roughly half a dozen books to balance because less books = better game or something, right? They’ll make tons of money too, because the Chaos and Vanilla books will be even bigger than they are now so they can charge 80 USD for them.

Let’s get back to News and Runours rather than BS and Wishes.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 14:07:25


Post by: alanmckenzie


Bremon wrote:
let’s ditch most Imperium offshoots and get back to the days of just Marines, Eldar, Nids, Guard, Chaos, etc. Now they’ll only have roughly half a dozen books to balance because less books = better game or something, right? Let’s get back to News and Runours rather than BS and Wishes.


Yeah, can we take this dead horse somewhere else to be flogged?

All I'm really hoping for from the Codex is an effective means to field my Furiosos.

Very much looking forward to the stratagems though. I'm expecting those to open up a bit variety in terms of effective lists/play styles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has there been any word of a date yet?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 15:46:43


Post by: theharrower


 alanmckenzie wrote:
Bremon wrote:
let’s ditch most Imperium offshoots and get back to the days of just Marines, Eldar, Nids, Guard, Chaos, etc. Now they’ll only have roughly half a dozen books to balance because less books = better game or something, right? Let’s get back to News and Runours rather than BS and Wishes.


Yeah, can we take this dead horse somewhere else to be flogged?

All I'm really hoping for from the Codex is an effective means to field my Furiosos.

Very much looking forward to the stratagems though. I'm expecting those to open up a bit variety in terms of effective lists/play styles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has there been any word of a date yet?


Seriously. Can we have a thread about an upcoming Dex without devolving into they should be squatted/merged in with another Dex? I hope they do the Death Company right. They need something else to be worth fielding. Otherwise they are poor cousins next to Vets. We need a lot of point adjustments. Dreads, Angelus Boltguns, Infernus Pistols, Hand Flamers, etc. Really curious to see if we get Wings back. If that works like Warp Time that would be awesome. Fingers crossed!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 15:54:57


Post by: techsoldaten


Ben2 wrote:
broxus wrote:
So the next 8th ed codex is Blood Angels! Lets start speculating what is in it and sharing any rumors we get here.

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/03/news-codexes-heroes-blood-glorygw-homepage-post-3/


Quote the whole announcement - 1 Imperial and 1 Chaos codex before Christmas, 1 Chaos codex after.

Blood Angels then Dark Angels, then Chaos Demons in January.


Was this supposed to be a joke?

The announcement does not suggest there will be a Chaos Codex before Christmas. Unless you are suggesting Dark Angels have gone renegade. I am sure an Interrogator Chaplain would like to have a word with you.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 16:32:35


Post by: alextroy


Dark Angels being Chaos is such and old joke I'm surprised you have to ask.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/06 16:49:57


Post by: theharrower


 alextroy wrote:
Dark Angels being Chaos is such and old joke I'm surprised you have to ask.


Not really a joke. Gav agrees!!!



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 01:51:13


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 pantheralegionnaire wrote:
So far all the Codex releases have reduced points costs so as to allow better theming fluff-wise.


Well, except admech. Not even the power weapon/fist drop that sm got. So it isn't a given.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 11:08:46


Post by: diepotato47


Any announcements/rumours on what dates the new codexes will be released? Too much to hope Blood Angels go up for pre-order this week?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 12:37:08


Post by: fresus


diepotato47 wrote:
Any announcements/rumours on what dates the new codexes will be released? Too much to hope Blood Angels go up for pre-order this week?

I doubt it. I would expect a codex every other week, as we've mostly seen so far. So Nov 25 and Dec 9 for the blood and dark angel codex.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 12:42:50


Post by: Kanluwen


fresus wrote:
diepotato47 wrote:
Any announcements/rumours on what dates the new codexes will be released? Too much to hope Blood Angels go up for pre-order this week?

I doubt it. I would expect a codex every other week, as we've mostly seen so far. So Nov 25 and Dec 9 for the blood and dark angel codex.

Ehhh...

I'd expect November 18th for the first(releasing on the 25th), December 2nd for the second(releasing on the following week).


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 12:45:19


Post by: JimmyWolf87


 theharrower wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
Dark Angels being Chaos is such and old joke I'm surprised you have to ask.


"Not really a joke. Gav agrees!!! "

Probably why his BL Dark Angel stuff seemingly contradicts every other authors' use of them. Always bitter that the two Chapters/Legions I play ended up with Gav as their primary novelist.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 13:03:15


Post by: fresus


 Kanluwen wrote:
fresus wrote:
diepotato47 wrote:
Any announcements/rumours on what dates the new codexes will be released? Too much to hope Blood Angels go up for pre-order this week?

I doubt it. I would expect a codex every other week, as we've mostly seen so far. So Nov 25 and Dec 9 for the blood and dark angel codex.

Ehhh...

I'd expect November 18th for the first(releasing on the 25th), December 2nd for the second(releasing on the following week).

Oops, I forgot the post was about pre-order dates, and posted the release date I was expecting.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 13:45:11


Post by: p5freak


GW usually posts previews on the community website the week you can preorder. And because nothing has been posted yet, i expect you can preorder next week saturday the 18th, or a week later, saturday the 25th.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 14:14:48


Post by: Bremon


I am very much looking forward to the slow drip of previews from the Warhammer Community site lol. Hopefully they keep me excited rather than temper expectations!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 14:38:53


Post by: Kdash


I very much expect, based on how GK's worked, that BA's will keep their current "trait" and will gain a 2nd part to it. what that is, could be anyone's guess.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 18:05:02


Post by: techsoldaten


 theharrower wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
Dark Angels being Chaos is such and old joke I'm surprised you have to ask.


Not really a joke. Gav agrees!!!


There are no jokes in the darkness of the 41st Century. *BLAM*


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 18:18:25


Post by: Kanluwen


Too bad that's photoshopped.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 18:27:35


Post by: kronk


 Kanluwen wrote:
Too bad that's photoshopped.


Yep.

The original:







Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 18:34:55


Post by: Kanluwen


 kronk wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Too bad that's photoshopped.


Yep.

The original:

Just for the record...
Spoiler:


He's not your friend, Kronk.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 19:11:59


Post by: theharrower


 Kanluwen wrote:
Too bad that's photoshopped.


I had no idea. Bummer.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/07 19:42:20


Post by: Sersi


 theharrower wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Too bad that's photoshopped.


I had no idea. Bummer.


You can tell by some of the pixels....


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 04:10:42


Post by: Frankenberry


Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 06:39:02


Post by: tneva82


 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 07:02:46


Post by: cuda1179


For 4 editions of the Game Dark Angels have been the least powerful marine codex, and were the whipping boys of GW. It wasn't until 7th that they were at least somewhat competitive.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 10:03:44


Post by: Frankenberry


tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 10:13:28


Post by: tneva82


 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 11:00:43


Post by: JohnnyHell


Let's not argue in the rumour vacuum guys, it's all OT anyway.

These Chapters are getting standalone Codexes whether you think it's a great idea or not. Space Wolves will too. GW likes money and wants to sell you more products.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 13:11:58


Post by: LEJ


 cuda1179 wrote:
For 4 editions of the Game Dark Angels have been the least powerful marine codex, and were the whipping boys of GW. It wasn't until 7th that they were at least somewhat competitive.


5 Editions, we were by far the worst in 2nd ed too.
For most of that time DA were the worst codex in the game.

Even today our only reliable trait is "Anything good you have will be made available to vanilla"


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/08 17:35:11


Post by: Kelly502


Looking forward to the BA Dex, curious the changes from the index. Anyone involved in Battle Scribe input?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 05:12:10


Post by: Crusaderobr


+1 attack on the charge in addition to this +1 to charge rolls and you will see me fielding full 10 man tac squads in rhinos with just bolters and a chainsword sergeant. The squad and Rhino only cost around 204 points. Same as 10 Intercessors. They would allow me to deepstrike my 15 man DC squad, 10 man Vanguard Veteran squad, 10 man Sanguinary squad, and 3 HQ's. Also the only thing my opponent could shoot at is 3 T7 Rhinos that have smoke launchers with -1 hit if I go first. If my marines die oh no there only 13 points each.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 09:27:32


Post by: CREEEEEEEEED


Where is Martel to complain about the red marines being underpowered?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 12:37:35


Post by: SideshowLucifer


The trait is +1 to charge and may fall back and charge in the same turn.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 12:44:47


Post by: Frankenberry


tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".


Rules wise, they certainly appear as white armored ultramarines.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 13:49:34


Post by: Tiberius501


 SideshowLucifer wrote:
The trait is +1 to charge and may fall back and charge in the same turn.


How'd you find that out? Seems alright, except id of liked an extra attack or something in melee. Everyone being able to take chainswords would've been great but that won't ever happen, as that's equipment based and already a Wolf thing. Still, I'm 100% expecting BA to suck again. DA are going to rule though I presume as they're already pretty strong.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 14:27:55


Post by: Bremon


So if they have jump packs they can shoot the plasma pistols they’d be able to shoot in combat anyway, and if they have anything besides pistols the only thing falling back and charging affects is a potential bonus attack on the charge, or zig zagging to different enemy units?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 14:56:30


Post by: Slinky


If you can fall back and charge then you can shoot at the enemy unit with the whole rest of your army, then charge in again to "lock" them in combat, so they have to fall back in their turn.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 15:17:44


Post by: 100BostonFan


 Slinky wrote:
If you can fall back and charge then you can shoot at the enemy unit with the whole rest of your army, then charge in again to "lock" them in combat, so they have to fall back in their turn.


The charge still has to survive the overwatch...so by leaving the combat you are enabling your opponent an opportunity to shoot again, at a penalty of course.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 15:39:16


Post by: Kanluwen


100BostonFan wrote:
 Slinky wrote:
If you can fall back and charge then you can shoot at the enemy unit with the whole rest of your army, then charge in again to "lock" them in combat, so they have to fall back in their turn.


The charge still has to survive the overwatch...so by leaving the combat you are enabling your opponent an opportunity to shoot again, at a penalty of course.

This is based upon the assumption there would be no skills or Psyker abilities allowing for them to do something to mitigate Overwatch capabilities.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 15:44:18


Post by: 100BostonFan


 Kanluwen wrote:
100BostonFan wrote:
 Slinky wrote:
If you can fall back and charge then you can shoot at the enemy unit with the whole rest of your army, then charge in again to "lock" them in combat, so they have to fall back in their turn.


The charge still has to survive the overwatch...so by leaving the combat you are enabling your opponent an opportunity to shoot again, at a penalty of course.

This is based upon the assumption there would be no skills or Psyker abilities allowing for them to do something to mitigate Overwatch capabilities.


Of course...just looking at what the standard rules are now..and what we know as of now. The unknown can change anything.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 15:50:38


Post by: Crusaderobr


If that tactic is true, the +1 attack psychic power just got a whole lot better...


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 18:03:18


Post by: gnome_idea_what


 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Where is Martel to complain about the red marines being underpowered?

Not Martel, but maybe he’s waiting for something more substantial in the way of spoilers before saying anything?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 18:07:07


Post by: theharrower


 Crusaderobr wrote:
If that tactic is true, the +1 attack psychic power just got a whole lot better...


Why? The power is +1 attack regardless of whether you charged or not. Granted it helps Death Company as they'll gain an extra +2 attacks with Black Rage, but aside from that it's still the same.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/09 18:22:59


Post by: Bremon


It’s basically a modified version of White Scars If this is the case, and it isn’t easy to find people talking about the bike chapter outdoing anyone.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 06:03:34


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 07:00:14


Post by: Red__Thirst


I'm curious to know which codex will release first, Blood Angels or Dark Angels, or if they'll be released jointly on the same date?

I hope we will see some rumor trickles soon once the Tyranid codex drops this weekend.

My major points of interest are psychic powers, stratagems & warlord traits for starters, then relics next.

Hooray hurry up & wait.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 08:15:20


Post by: brother_b


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 13:57:36


Post by: Omega-soul


It's sad when everyone around - wolfies/Dark angels and even sisters have their leaks/rumors and BA have nothing to talk about.

I guess it would be that much bland release for Blood angels.
I had some hopes for new miniatures, but with this Angels of death style release apparently nothing more than upgrade sprue is coming.
Another year *sigh*


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 14:40:45


Post by: theharrower


brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 14:48:58


Post by: Frankenberry


Spoiler:
 theharrower wrote:
brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


I'm with you, the constant whining about multiple SM codices is getting annoying.

And I second the Primaris cc unit, hell, I'd even go so far as to say Death Company Primaris - those guys would wreak havoc.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 15:37:12


Post by: theharrower


 Frankenberry wrote:
Spoiler:
 theharrower wrote:
brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


I'm with you, the constant whining about multiple SM codices is getting annoying.

And I second the Primaris cc unit, hell, I'd even go so far as to say Death Company Primaris - those guys would wreak havoc.


Death Company Primaris would be AMAZING! Bring a unit of them out of a Black Repulsor with a red "X" on it. That would be the best.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 15:42:24


Post by: Neronoxx


 theharrower wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Spoiler:
 theharrower wrote:
brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


I'm with you, the constant whining about multiple SM codices is getting annoying.

And I second the Primaris cc unit, hell, I'd even go so far as to say Death Company Primaris - those guys would wreak havoc.


Death Company Primaris would be AMAZING! Bring a unit of them out of a Black Repulsor with a red "X" on it. That would be the best.

*vomits uncontrollably*
To be honest, if we manage to only receive a couple of nerfs I'll take that, but only because we're used to so much worse.
I'm 100% faithful our chapter tactic is gonna be about as cool as sweaty joggers socks.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 15:50:23


Post by: Kanluwen


 theharrower wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Spoiler:
 theharrower wrote:
brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


I'm with you, the constant whining about multiple SM codices is getting annoying.

And I second the Primaris cc unit, hell, I'd even go so far as to say Death Company Primaris - those guys would wreak havoc.


Death Company Primaris would be AMAZING! Bring a unit of them out of a Black Repulsor with a red "X" on it. That would be the best.

Apparently Primaris do not suffer from the Black Rage or Red Thirst, so can't be Death Company.

It was apparently asked in regards to Flesh Tearers having Primaris and that was the answer given.

Doesn't mean there won't be a CC Primaris unit mind you, just throwing that part out there.
Truthfully if I had to wishlist things, I think a Primaris "Legionnaire" styled unit of Primaris wearing Gravis Armor and rocking tower shields with pikes and short swords could be pretty cool.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 19:22:49


Post by: Karhedron


Bremon wrote:
So if they have jump packs they can shoot the plasma pistols they’d be able to shoot in combat anyway, and if they have anything besides pistols the only thing falling back and charging affects is a potential bonus attack on the charge, or zig zagging to different enemy units?

 Slinky wrote:
If you can fall back and charge then you can shoot at the enemy unit with the whole rest of your army, then charge in again to "lock" them in combat, so they have to fall back in their turn.

OK, so that is 3 potential benefit situations. We can sling-shot from one combat to the next. This makes out elite CC squads almost impossible to tarpit and means that screens or bubble-wrap will slow us down for only 1 turn at worst.

Any squads armed with non-pistol weapons get a boost to firepower. Even something simple like SB/CS Veterans become quite a blender unit.

DC obviously get charge bonuses which is nice but even non-DC will get to strike first against most opponents.

If we are really lucky, maybe Death Masks will do something useful like negate Overwatch (OK, wishful thinking, I admit ).


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 20:15:18


Post by: Dysartes


 Kanluwen wrote:
Apparently Primaris do not suffer from the Black Rage or Red Thirst, so can't be Death Company.

It was apparently asked in regards to Flesh Tearers having Primaris and that was the answer given.

Doesn't mean there won't be a CC Primaris unit mind you, just throwing that part out there.
Truthfully if I had to wishlist things, I think a Primaris "Legionnaire" styled unit of Primaris wearing Gravis Armor and rocking tower shields with pikes and short swords could be pretty cool.


You got a source/quote for that bit about the Black Rage and Red Thirst, Kan?

The Legionnaire idea is an interesting one, btw.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 20:20:47


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I would like to see the Primaris 'not suffering' from Black Rage/Red Thirst turns out to be a delayed onset--Cawl's attempts to fix the gene seed only turned out to result in a temporary 'cure'. Goes well with the grimdark and would show that Cawl isn't able to magically fix everything.

But who am I kidding...


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 20:22:59


Post by: Kanluwen


 Dysartes wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Apparently Primaris do not suffer from the Black Rage or Red Thirst, so can't be Death Company.

It was apparently asked in regards to Flesh Tearers having Primaris and that was the answer given.

Doesn't mean there won't be a CC Primaris unit mind you, just throwing that part out there.
Truthfully if I had to wishlist things, I think a Primaris "Legionnaire" styled unit of Primaris wearing Gravis Armor and rocking tower shields with pikes and short swords could be pretty cool.


You got a source/quote for that bit about the Black Rage and Red Thirst, Kan?

The Legionnaire idea is an interesting one, btw.

I wish I could remember exactly where I'd read it; I want to say it was second hand commentary of something that Andy Smillie had said at an event when he got asked if he was going to write about Primaris Flesh Tearers sometime soon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I would like to see the Primaris 'not suffering' from Black Rage/Red Thirst turns out to be a delayed onset--Cawl's attempts to fix the gene seed only turned out to result in a temporary 'cure'. Goes well with the grimdark and would show that Cawl isn't able to magically fix everything.

But who am I kidding...

I like the idea of them being free from it and the Sons of Sanguinius eventually becoming the whole "noble hero" trope again...only for everything to go horribly awry when they get accused of something that their non-Primaris brethren did way back in the day.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 21:32:01


Post by: Alendrel


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I would like to see the Primaris 'not suffering' from Black Rage/Red Thirst turns out to be a delayed onset--Cawl's attempts to fix the gene seed only turned out to result in a temporary 'cure'. Goes well with the grimdark and would show that Cawl isn't able to magically fix everything.

But who am I kidding...


In the Dark Imperium novel, there is specific reference to Cawl opting to not trying to fix some Legion-specific geneseed flaws, believing they were there for a purpose or doing so would counteract some other aspect of that geneseed lineages design. So it's more like Cawl restored missing organs and such, but things like the BA flaws and the Canis Helix were left alone.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/10 23:42:21


Post by: Karhedron


Alendrel wrote:
In the Dark Imperium novel, there is specific reference to Cawl opting to not trying to fix some Legion-specific geneseed flaws, believing they were there for a purpose or doing so would counteract some other aspect of that geneseed lineages design. So it's more like Cawl restored missing organs and such, but things like the BA flaws and the Canis Helix were left alone.

That exchange is a little ambiguous. Cawl seemed to be implying that he had fixed the flaws in the 6th and 9th Legion geneseed without eradicating their character entirely. Taken at face value, Space Wolves would retain their heightened senses but would no longer risk their recruits turning into werewolves. Similarly I would assume the BAs retain their speed and hunger for combat without the risk of vamping out or going mad.

Of course whether Cawl has been as successful as he thinks remains to be seen. If Dark Imperium showed anything, it is that his intellect is exceeded only by his arrogance.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 00:48:44


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Frankenberry wrote:
Spoiler:
 theharrower wrote:
brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


I'm with you, the constant whining about multiple SM codices is getting annoying.

And I second the Primaris cc unit, hell, I'd even go so far as to say Death Company Primaris - those guys would wreak havoc.

Codex bloat IS a thing and both the Angels chapters don't have enough unique items that it warrants a codex each.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 02:13:20


Post by: Tiberius501


As much as Death Company Primaris would be amazing I don't think it's ever going to happen, or if it does it'll be years from now. I heard that Primaris were cured too, though I can't remember where from. But even without that there are too many other things that need new models, and don't forget GW doesn't seem to like Blood Angels anymore looking at how they've been going rules wise lately.
I'm clearly a little salty haha, but only because I've been hearing all the cool things Dark Angels are getting again while Blood Angels sit in the corner as usual.
Anyhow, that's my whinge.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 02:55:20


Post by: Tygre


I am not expecting any new models. Most of these new codexs have not had any accompanying models, unless they are a new faction like Deathguard.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 04:19:07


Post by: Frankenberry


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Spoiler:
 theharrower wrote:
brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


I'm with you, the constant whining about multiple SM codices is getting annoying.

And I second the Primaris cc unit, hell, I'd even go so far as to say Death Company Primaris - those guys would wreak havoc.

Codex bloat IS a thing and both the Angels chapters don't have enough unique items that it warrants a codex each.


You're completely right, having roughly the same amount of special units as the Space Wolves certainly doesn't warrant it's own book. Thank you for such an insightful response.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 04:49:16


Post by: Torga_DW


I just want to complain that the new blood angels dex is (will be) underpowered. Also i want to (re)add the rumour that the blood angels will get a frankenstein techmarine with an ogryn servitor. Put me on the rumour tracker?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 05:17:37


Post by: Red__Thirst


 Frankenberry wrote:
You're completely right, having roughly the same amount of special units as the Space Wolves certainly doesn't warrant it's own book. Thank you for such an insightful response.


It's slayer-fan. He's second only to Martel with salt and vitriol along with his way is the only view that matters or is correct.

Check his post history if you don't believe me.

Still anxiously anticipating something cool or interesting next week after the Tyranids codex drops.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 06:36:53


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Red__Thirst wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
You're completely right, having roughly the same amount of special units as the Space Wolves certainly doesn't warrant it's own book. Thank you for such an insightful response.


It's slayer-fan. He's second only to Martel with salt and vitriol along with his way is the only view that matters or is correct.

Check his post history if you don't believe me.

Still anxiously anticipating something cool or interesting next week after the Tyranids codex drops.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

I don't play Blood Angels. I'm just saying they've sucked for most of their existence simply because of the insistence to keep them as a separate codex. Or would you like to argue in their favor in tournaments?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Spoiler:
 theharrower wrote:
brother_b wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:
Gotta love the trolls that think BA and DA are basically different colored Ultramarines, they always decide to appear in threads like these.


Nobody thinks that but question is are they distinct enough for own codex rather than being in main codex. Or do YOU think white scars are just different coloured Ultramarines?

Like it or not though force of tradition protects them from being joined to regular marine codex for better or worse. It has bad habit of leaving those chapters vastly different power levels. DA in particular has several times been basically testbed and outpowered by later released marine codex. Sometimes with totally weird stuff like stormshields that had 4++ rather than 3++ other chapters got. This would be avoided if they were in same codex.


Do you play any of the armies discussed here?


Let's see. Space wolves, IG, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks. Think that covers my 40k armies.

Can you answer the question? Are white scars different coloured ultramarines? If not then clearly you can have chapters that aren't different coloured ultramarines in same codex as ultramarines so it would technically be feasible to have DA/BA there as well which would ensure they would be roughly similar in power levels and work on same logic more likely than now ensuring you don't end up with dark angel storm shields with 4++ rather than 3++ "just for reasons".

Only Space Wolves and Grey Knights have any excuse for being in a ddifferent codex.

You could make the argument on Deathwatch being rolled on in but nah.


Don't hate. BA was one of the first chapters that got its own look and feel. It does deserve it's own codex. And really, does it matter? If you don't play BA then don't worry.


This. Let's give the doesn't need a Codex crap a rest. Since 8th dropped they have been updating points and such across all books and we have Chapter Approved once a year now to. The whole 4++/3++ Storm Shields issue won't happen again.

Back to Blood Angels, I'm hoping for more than just an upgrade kit, but I won't hold my breath. There really needs to be a Primaris close combat unit. That's just what I need to be coaxed into picking up a Repulsor.


I'm with you, the constant whining about multiple SM codices is getting annoying.

And I second the Primaris cc unit, hell, I'd even go so far as to say Death Company Primaris - those guys would wreak havoc.

Codex bloat IS a thing and both the Angels chapters don't have enough unique items that it warrants a codex each.


You're completely right, having roughly the same amount of special units as the Space Wolves certainly doesn't warrant it's own book. Thank you for such an insightful response.

Honestly now that the Apothecary has its own Character entry, you've got Death Company (which is a unique unit to totally keep) and then Honour Guard with Jump Packs. It's not a lot. Is having your own codex really worth not functioning in the game?

Also Space Wolves have an entirely more unique unit selection. I don't know what codex you're looking at.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 07:09:27


Post by: Skullhammer


You forgot furioso dreads, dc dreads, libby dreads and baal preds all are unique units plus 3 named characters.



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 07:56:36


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Well, I am hoping that Blood Angels don't end up being crap like 3/7(Imperial Fists, White Scars, and Black Templars) of the Chapters in Codex Space Marines. I do think that they still have enough unique units and characters to warrant their own Codex, but I would like to see some unique Primaris units. A Furioso Redemptor Dreadnought, a Librarian Redemptor Dreadnought, Death Company Reivers, etc. Most of these things can be accomplished with an additional Sprue or some unique rules. Give us back our Lucifer Pattern Engines and make sure they do something useful (perhaps make it so BA tanks can advance and shoot Heavy Weapons and Rapid Fire Weapons, and don't take a penalty for firing Assault Weapons after advancing).

I also REALLY want to see Dante as more than just a beatstick. The dude is supposed to be the most capable Commander in the entire Imperium.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 08:01:57


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Skullhammer wrote:
You forgot furioso dreads, dc dreads, libby dreads and baal preds all are unique units plus 3 named characters.


Furioso Dreads are basically Ironclads and Librarian Dreads are something all Chapters should have anyway.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 11:18:51


Post by: PhillyT


Except that they aren't and other chapters don't. What kind of response was that?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 11:19:37


Post by: p5freak


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Furioso Dreads are basically Ironclads


No.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 13:35:33


Post by: AAN


Primaris DC or CC unit?

IMO already there with Reivers:


Again a small minor conversion.
The backpack, left shoulder pad and the helmet is from the Death Company box. I also painted him in DC colours.
While Primaris are not effected by the Black Curse of the Blood Angels I decided that some Reivers will paint their armour as DC to honour their brothers.
Where the Intercessors are the battle line heavy infantry of the Primaris Astartes, the Reivers are elite assault specialists given special training and wargear.
Reivers are masters of terror tactics, breaking from stealth in a cacophony of Bolter fire, grenade detonations and guttural, Vox-amplified roars.

The description its to DC IMO too! For transfers I used Forge World BA.

more pics on my site -> http://www.adpublishing.de/html/primaris.html


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 14:05:23


Post by: Kanluwen


 casvalremdeikun wrote:

I also REALLY want to see Dante as more than just a beatstick. The dude is supposed to be the most capable Commander in the entire Imperium.

And Shrike is supposed to be one of the most capable guerilla warfare specialists the Imperium has at their disposal, yet he and his Chapter of guerilla warriors have been reduced to "jump packs and hard to hit".

Sometimes it just doesn't work out.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 14:35:08


Post by: Prometheum5


 AAN wrote:
Primaris DC or CC unit?

IMO already there with Reivers:


Again a small minor conversion.
The backpack, left shoulder pad and the helmet is from the Death Company box. I also painted him in DC colours.
While Primaris are not effected by the Black Curse of the Blood Angels I decided that some Reivers will paint their armour as DC to honour their brothers.
Where the Intercessors are the battle line heavy infantry of the Primaris Astartes, the Reivers are elite assault specialists given special training and wargear.
Reivers are masters of terror tactics, breaking from stealth in a cacophony of Bolter fire, grenade detonations and guttural, Vox-amplified roars.

The description its to DC IMO too! For transfers I used Forge World BA.

more pics on my site -> http://www.adpublishing.de/html/primaris.html



Great conversion and story, but Reivers do not cut it as a dedicated CC unit. We need a proper Assault Primaris squad with power weapon options and assault weapons, and jump pack maneuverability.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 14:39:43


Post by: tneva82


Skullhammer wrote:
You forgot furioso dreads, dc dreads, libby dreads and baal preds all are unique units plus 3 named characters.



Which could be put in same book though. They are on own book due to force of history ensuring they never will be aboup same power level to other marines but marines+-1


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 15:47:26


Post by: Red__Thirst


Lord Dante, commander of the Host
Mephiston, the Lord of Death
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
The Sanguinor
Astorath the Grim
High Priest Corbulo
Librarian Dreadnoughts
Death Company Dreadnoughts
Furioso Dreadnoughts
Baal Predators
Death Company
Sanguinary Guard
Unique wargear for Tactical Squads & Devastator Squads (Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols, Heavy Flamers)
Unique wargear for Assault Squads (Meltaguns and Plasma Guns, plus Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique options for Apothecary/Sanguinary High Priests & Company Champions (Jump Packs)
Unique wargear and options for Company Veteran Squads (Jump Packs, Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique wargear for all non named characters (Inferno Pistols & Hand Flamers), plus an extra piece of wargear available to some specific characters (Death Masks)

No access to a lot of other units that standard space marines have access to.

I think that's enough different to justify having their own book, not to mention they've always had their own book, and unless something drastic happens, always will be in their own book.

Asking for or claiming they should be rolled into the standard marine codex with Dark Angels or any other chapter is simply not going to happen, and frankly ignorant on the part of the people asking.

Seriously, grow up and find something else to gripe / moan / whinge / about. This crap got old 10+ years ago, and the fact that you're STILL beating this dead horse now that it's down to a skeleton says something, don't you think?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 17:03:12


Post by: CountryMac


Maybe you guys should make a separate thread about BA not deserving a codex... I came here for rumors and/or more information about the codex coming out, which I think is the purpose of this thread... I don't know maybe I'm wrong?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/11 20:10:34


Post by: niv-mizzet


 Red__Thirst wrote:
Lord Dante, commander of the Host
Mephiston, the Lord of Death
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
The Sanguinor
Astorath the Grim
High Priest Corbulo
Librarian Dreadnoughts
Death Company Dreadnoughts
Furioso Dreadnoughts
Baal Predators
Death Company
Sanguinary Guard
Unique wargear for Tactical Squads & Devastator Squads (Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols, Heavy Flamers)
Unique wargear for Assault Squads (Meltaguns and Plasma Guns, plus Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique options for Apothecary/Sanguinary High Priests & Company Champions (Jump Packs)
Unique wargear and options for Company Veteran Squads (Jump Packs, Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique wargear for all non named characters (Inferno Pistols & Hand Flamers), plus an extra piece of wargear available to some specific characters (Death Masks)

No access to a lot of other units that standard space marines have access to.

I think that's enough different to justify having their own book, not to mention they've always had their own book, and unless something drastic happens, always will be in their own book.

Asking for or claiming they should be rolled into the standard marine codex with Dark Angels or any other chapter is simply not going to happen, and frankly ignorant on the part of the people asking.

Seriously, grow up and find something else to gripe / moan / whinge / about. This crap got old 10+ years ago, and the fact that you're STILL beating this dead horse now that it's down to a skeleton says something, don't you think?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-



You missed captain tycho (both versions) and Seth (admittedly from a descendent chapter,) and lucifer engines, which are a BA staple, although they don't really have a lot of presence in the index.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 01:21:13


Post by: diepotato47


Heard from a friend to expect preorder on the 2nd of December, did not indicate any new models with the release.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 02:38:29


Post by: Bremon


...damn it. I had read/hoped BA was released November 25 and DA December 9. Still hoping for this to be the case.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 03:08:07


Post by: the_scotsman


Bremon wrote:
...damn it. I had read/hoped BA was released November 25 and DA December 9. Still hoping for this to be the case.


Three days after the release of the necromunda stuff? Doubt it.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 03:13:24


Post by: Voss


the_scotsman wrote:
Bremon wrote:
...damn it. I had read/hoped BA was released November 25 and DA December 9. Still hoping for this to be the case.


Three days after the release of the necromunda stuff? Doubt it.


I'm confused by both of you. Necromunda comes out on the 25th. (Site says it ships on the 24th) Not sure where 3 days is coming from.




Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 03:41:50


Post by: casvalremdeikun


I kinda hope we get a new Start Collecting like what Eldar and Tyranids did. No idea what would be in it though.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 03:58:01


Post by: Bremon


Voss wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Bremon wrote:
...damn it. I had read/hoped BA was released November 25 and DA December 9. Still hoping for this to be the case.


Three days after the release of the necromunda stuff? Doubt it.


I'm confused by both of you. Necromunda comes out on the 25th. (Site says it ships on the 24th) Not sure where 3 days is coming from.


Now I hate Necromunda. 2 weeks of preorder? Burn it all down, GW is the worst.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I kinda hope we get a new Start Collecting like what Eldar and Tyranids did. No idea what would be in it though.
Agreed, needs new stuff in it. That way I can get more stuff I don’t have. I’m good on Baal Preds and Tac marines lol.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 08:39:22


Post by: diepotato47


If we were to get a different Start Collecting! Box, tgey'd just swap the Baal Pred for a Furioso, to bring it in libe with the Space Marine box


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/12 09:05:50


Post by: casvalremdeikun


diepotato47 wrote:
If we were to get a different Start Collecting! Box, tgey'd just swap the Baal Pred for a Furioso, to bring it in libe with the Space Marine box
Perhaps. I wouldn't mind a Terminator Librarian or Captain, a set of BA Assault Terminators, and a Furioso. We already had a Battleforce that was a PA Captain, a squad of Tacticals, and a Furioso, so I don't really care to see another box with the Tactical Squad in it. The two newest Start Collecting boxes have had units that were a bit out of left field, so who knows what to expect. Though the did update the BA box to have the black background, so I am disinclined to think we would get a new Start Collecting (even if the one we have is so weird with the Terminator Captain).


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 05:25:34


Post by: Red__Thirst


Spoiler:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
 Red__Thirst wrote:
Lord Dante, commander of the Host
Mephiston, the Lord of Death
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
The Sanguinor
Astorath the Grim
High Priest Corbulo
Librarian Dreadnoughts
Death Company Dreadnoughts
Furioso Dreadnoughts
Baal Predators
Death Company
Sanguinary Guard
Unique wargear for Tactical Squads & Devastator Squads (Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols, Heavy Flamers)
Unique wargear for Assault Squads (Meltaguns and Plasma Guns, plus Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique options for Apothecary/Sanguinary High Priests & Company Champions (Jump Packs)
Unique wargear and options for Company Veteran Squads (Jump Packs, Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique wargear for all non named characters (Inferno Pistols & Hand Flamers), plus an extra piece of wargear available to some specific characters (Death Masks)

No access to a lot of other units that standard space marines have access to.

I think that's enough different to justify having their own book, not to mention they've always had their own book, and unless something drastic happens, always will be in their own book.

Asking for or claiming they should be rolled into the standard marine codex with Dark Angels or any other chapter is simply not going to happen, and frankly ignorant on the part of the people asking.

Seriously, grow up and find something else to gripe / moan / whinge / about. This crap got old 10+ years ago, and the fact that you're STILL beating this dead horse now that it's down to a skeleton says something, don't you think?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


You missed captain tycho (both versions) and Seth (admittedly from a descendent chapter,) and lucifer engines, which are a BA staple, although they don't really have a lot of presence in the index.


I thought the engines were represented on the Baal predator exclusively now? Though I do hope the make a return to the Razorback& Rhino, along with the Vindicator in the new codex.

I also didn't mention Tycho on purpose. He's dead to me. *Rimshot*

Speaking of rumors.

The current rumor mill I've seen has our chapter tactics being +1" added to our charging and advance rolls, along with the ability to leave combat and charge again in the same turn across the board.

Is it just me, or is this potentially pretty good?

You can, with jump pack movement, ignore some bubble wrap, depending. Of course it wouldn't work perfectly, the opponent could always fall back away from you in their turn, but you're still displacing bubble wrap. If they stay engaged with your Blood Angels unit(s), then you leave combat and move 12" over the bubble wrap, shoot whatever is in the back field behind the wrap, and then charge in on it if need be. Jump Packs allow you to move over intervening models (From the battle primer: "If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there."). It seems to me running larger squads may be the order of the day to give us more attacks on the first and subsequent charges as we bounce from several units as the game progresses.

I also fully expect at least one strategem, costing 2 CP if I had to guess, that allows one of your squads to strike first as though they were a charging unit, even if they were themselves charged. In addition, perhaps something that allow us to prevent Overwatch on a charge (Relic Death Mask or a Psychic Power if not a strategem maybe).

Curious to see if this rumor is true and how it'll help/change our tactics & gameplay for sure.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Edits: Stupid Spoiler tags.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 07:10:56


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Red__Thirst wrote:

Librarian Dreadnoughts
Sanguinary Guard
Unique wargear for Tactical Squads & Devastator Squads (Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols, Heavy Flamers)
Unique wargear for Assault Squads (Meltaguns and Plasma Guns, plus Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique options for Apothecary/Sanguinary High Priests & Company Champions (Jump Packs)
Unique wargear and options for Company Veteran Squads (Jump Packs, Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique wargear for all non named characters (Inferno Pistols & Hand Flamers)
I think that's enough different to justify having their own book, not to mention they've always had their own book, and unless something drastic happens, always will be in their own book.

Asking for or claiming they should be rolled into the standard marine codex with Dark Angels or any other chapter is simply not going to happen, and frankly ignorant on the part of the people asking.

Seriously, grow up and find something else to gripe / moan / whinge / about. This crap got old 10+ years ago, and the fact that you're STILL beating this dead horse now that it's down to a skeleton says something, don't you think?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-



I know that it is too late to roll ba and da into sm (5th ed was probably the last point it would have worked) but a lot of the things ba have that make them distinct are mainly to keep ba distinct, rather than any other rules or fluff reason. There is no reason other chapters don't have librarian dreads, while things like jump honor guard or apothecaries would fit right in for raven guard, and why do ba and sisters of battle have hand flamers but not salamanders?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 07:48:48


Post by: Red__Thirst


My only response to that is: Ask Games Workshop.

None of us can answer this question nor can we know the why. It's simply the way it is currently. If you want it changed, contact GW (Or get a petition signed by however many people you can get to sign it) and let them know how you (collectively) feel.

Armies have differences. Those differences are what they are, and if they change, so be it. Until they do, we use what we're given. I know that's stating the obvious, but it's still true and apparently needs to be said.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 15:00:49


Post by: Mantle


That’s sort of like saying why do space wolf dreadnoughts have storm shields (“blizzard shields”) but other chapters don’t, yeah space marines could and would more than likely share equipment and technology but then when it comes to this being a game all space marines would just be different coloured marines.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 16:21:08


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Mantle wrote:
That’s sort of like saying why do space wolf dreadnoughts have storm shields (“blizzard shields”) but other chapters don’t, yeah space marines could and would more than likely share equipment and technology but then when it comes to this being a game all space marines would just be different coloured marines.

Literally not even close to being the same. Hell, Tactical Marines HAD Heavy Flamer access before and then lost it because reasons.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 16:59:25


Post by: techsoldaten


CountryMac wrote:
Maybe you guys should make a separate thread about BA not deserving a codex... I came here for rumors and/or more information about the codex coming out, which I think is the purpose of this thread... I don't know maybe I'm wrong?

I read it different, I see every post in this thread as an argument for why they don't need their own book.



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 17:55:57


Post by: gnome_idea_what


 techsoldaten wrote:
CountryMac wrote:
Maybe you guys should make a separate thread about BA not deserving a codex... I came here for rumors and/or more information about the codex coming out, which I think is the purpose of this thread... I don't know maybe I'm wrong?

I read it different, I see every post in this thread as an argument for why they don't need their own book.


The way I see it, the legitimacy of BA getting a codex has little to do with rumor and speculation about the non-theoretical, actual codex that BA are getting a codex. You could use this thread as evidence, but that doesn’t make this thread a good place to make an argument for or against it.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 18:38:07


Post by: Alpharius


 gnome_idea_what wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
CountryMac wrote:
Maybe you guys should make a separate thread about BA not deserving a codex... I came here for rumors and/or more information about the codex coming out, which I think is the purpose of this thread... I don't know maybe I'm wrong?

I read it different, I see every post in this thread as an argument for why they don't need their own book.


The way I see it, the legitimacy of BA getting a codex has little to do with rumor and speculation about the non-theoretical, actual codex that BA are getting a codex. You could use this thread as evidence, but that doesn’t make this thread a good place to make an argument for or against it.


I agree.

Let's go with this.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 20:03:18


Post by: CountryMac




Personally, I wouldn't mind being able to fallback and charge!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 20:06:21


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Fall back and Charge will help Assault Marines immensely. And Death Company will be able to maximize their ability to get additional attacks on the Charge.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 20:15:47


Post by: Alpharius


 Alpharius wrote:
 gnome_idea_what wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
CountryMac wrote:
Maybe you guys should make a separate thread about BA not deserving a codex... I came here for rumors and/or more information about the codex coming out, which I think is the purpose of this thread... I don't know maybe I'm wrong?

I read it different, I see every post in this thread as an argument for why they don't need their own book.


The way I see it, the legitimacy of BA getting a codex has little to do with rumor and speculation about the non-theoretical, actual codex that BA are getting a codex. You could use this thread as evidence, but that doesn’t make this thread a good place to make an argument for or against it.


I agree.

Let's go with this.


Quoting myself - good grief! - and putting in Orange so that everyone knows it is Official now.

Rule 1 - BE POLITE.

Rule 2 - STAY ON TOPIC.

Thanks!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 20:25:52


Post by: Fifty


Has anyone seen any news about whether other chapters will get any love? I assume Gabriel Seth will be in there, but I'd love to see some Lamenters love, personally. I suspect it will be purely BA and Seth, with a "change <Blood Angels> to <successor chapter X or Y> statement though.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 20:28:51


Post by: doomdreamer


Last couple of editions my Baal Predators were lack-luster. I really want them to be something I WANT to take. They are awesome and I want to BE awesome.

I want to deepstrike my Landraider (its ok if I don't get to)

I want the Red Thirst to mean something, like, my TAC squad goes on a murder frenzy in CC and actually works. Maybe a strategem?

I want Dante to regen CP or something, show how much of a tactical genius he is

I want Storm Ravens moved to dedicated transport

I want Mephiston to have a gaze attack

I want mag grapples to be better.

WANT WANT WANT



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 20:52:48


Post by: Togusa


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Red__Thirst wrote:

Librarian Dreadnoughts
Sanguinary Guard
Unique wargear for Tactical Squads & Devastator Squads (Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols, Heavy Flamers)
Unique wargear for Assault Squads (Meltaguns and Plasma Guns, plus Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique options for Apothecary/Sanguinary High Priests & Company Champions (Jump Packs)
Unique wargear and options for Company Veteran Squads (Jump Packs, Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols)
Unique wargear for all non named characters (Inferno Pistols & Hand Flamers)
I think that's enough different to justify having their own book, not to mention they've always had their own book, and unless something drastic happens, always will be in their own book.

Asking for or claiming they should be rolled into the standard marine codex with Dark Angels or any other chapter is simply not going to happen, and frankly ignorant on the part of the people asking.

Seriously, grow up and find something else to gripe / moan / whinge / about. This crap got old 10+ years ago, and the fact that you're STILL beating this dead horse now that it's down to a skeleton says something, don't you think?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-



I know that it is too late to roll ba and da into sm (5th ed was probably the last point it would have worked) but a lot of the things ba have that make them distinct are mainly to keep ba distinct, rather than any other rules or fluff reason. There is no reason other chapters don't have librarian dreads, while things like jump honor guard or apothecaries would fit right in for raven guard, and why do ba and sisters of battle have hand flamers but not salamanders?


I mean this respectfully. But the answer to that question in my opinion is that Games Workshop has never done any house cleaning of the models. That's why it's never been done, because they don't want to make the hard decisions on what stays and what goes.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 21:25:53


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 Fifty wrote:
Has anyone seen any news about whether other chapters will get any love? I assume Gabriel Seth will be in there, but I'd love to see some Lamenters love, personally. I suspect it will be purely BA and Seth, with a "change <Blood Angels> to <successor chapter X or Y> statement though.
I definitely hope that the Flesh Tearers will be more than just Gabriel Seth. And perhaps the newest BA Successor (whose name escapes me) will have some new rules, who knows.

We actually have a precedent with the Crimson Fists vs. Imperial Fists. Perhaps the Flesh Tearers will be like that. Same bonus same Strategem, different trait, different, relic.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 21:28:11


Post by: Omega-soul


 Fifty wrote:
Has anyone seen any news about whether other chapters will get any love? I assume Gabriel Seth will be in there, but I'd love to see some Lamenters love, personally. I suspect it will be purely BA and Seth, with a "change <Blood Angels> to <successor chapter X or Y> statement though.


Actually - I think that Blood angels WILL get the successor chapter traits/tactics - as in 7-ed. codex there is an artworks and background for a bunch of notable successor chapters.
Flesh teares have a TON of background artworks books and even chaptermaster.
I even noticed that Gabriel Seth have probably more official artworks than Dante


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 21:51:56


Post by: gnome_idea_what


If overcharged engines or something like them return for vehicles, then I’d like to see them do more than provide a movement speed increase. Maybe they allow falling back further to account for increased acceleration, or maybe they boost melee attacks on the charge to represent ramming speed, but they should affect more than the move phase.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 22:22:19


Post by: Bremon


I want overcharged engines to do something useful.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 22:22:25


Post by: cuda1179


 doomdreamer wrote:
Last couple of editions my Baal Predators were lack-luster. I really want them to be something I WANT to take. They are awesome and I want to BE awesome.

I want to deepstrike my Landraider (its ok if I don't get to)

I want the Red Thirst to mean something, like, my TAC squad goes on a murder frenzy in CC and actually works. Maybe a strategem?

I want Dante to regen CP or something, show how much of a tactical genius he is

I want Storm Ravens moved to dedicated transport

I want Mephiston to have a gaze attack

I want mag grapples to be better.

WANT WANT WANT



Deepstriking land Raiders was silly. I don't want that to return.

Now, the Red thirst should not be able to be turned on/off. I say once it's on, it stays on for the rest of the game. What that effect is I think should have both advantages and disadvantages. Being better at close combat, but being unable to fall back would be fine with me.

I think Storm Ravens are fine where they are.

Definitely need some boosts for characters.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 22:30:14


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Bremon wrote:
I want overcharged engines to do something useful.
This. I want them to allow the tanks to advance and shoot Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 22:31:46


Post by: cuda1179


Bremon wrote:
I want overcharged engines to do something useful.


Other than a little extra speed, what if Baal Predators had the Leman Russ's Grinding advance rule?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 22:44:43


Post by: Bremon


Yes, please lol.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 22:44:53


Post by: Melissia


At least then the flame turret would actually be useful on them?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/14 23:14:49


Post by: Bremon


Exactly. I’m building a Baal Pred right now and have it together except sponsons and turret; waiting for the book to see if I need to bother magnetizing.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/15 14:02:49


Post by: Dysartes


Bremon wrote:
Exactly. I’m building a Furioso right now and have it together except sponsons and turret; waiting for the book to see if I need to bother magnetizing.


...since when did Dreadnoughts get sponsons and turrets?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/15 14:09:11


Post by: Bremon


 Dysartes wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Exactly. I’m building a Furioso right now and have it together except sponsons and turret; waiting for the book to see if I need to bother magnetizing.


...since when did Dreadnoughts get sponsons and turrets?

Baal Pred lol, sorry, bit overloaded with kits and magnets at the moment.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/15 15:30:11


Post by: wuestenfux


We need the DC as a premium assault squad at least among Marines.
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/15 16:14:03


Post by: Slinky


 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).


I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/15 16:17:21


Post by: doomdreamer


I think a Stratgem where I "lose" a tactical squad to the black rage would be awesome.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/15 16:37:52


Post by: Bremon


Stratagem for closer than normal deep striking. Melta range please lol.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/15 21:44:19


Post by: Red__Thirst


I'd be very ok with this. Especially for my Assault Squads. I can see it being a 1 to 2 CP cost strategem "Aerial Expertise" or something along those lines that allow them to be more precise and land closer than would usually be expected.

We'll see. Hurry up rumor mill!

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 01:01:34


Post by: Omega-soul


By the way!
Talking about Successor chapter tactics, and particulary Gabriel Seth - while I was searching for all his pictures I found this hidden in plain sight image at the back of Exterminatus book!
Maybe it's jut me, but I haven't seen this original artwork anywhere else.
And judging by the style it's something that looks to be a Raymond Swanland's art.
But that guy makes a cover art most of the times in GW.




Also - when I say there is a lot of pictures of Seth - there is:
Spoiler:






alot of them.

Aaaaaand while these are not Seth directly - but definitely has some Gabriel's two-handed eviscerator vibe
Spoiler:



So with all the pictures of flesh tearers I am quite sured that we will have our own successor tactics




Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 02:48:05


Post by: skchsan


has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 02:57:06


Post by: Galas


 skchsan wrote:
has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?


Yep, they are new:
Spoiler:

4$ more expensive but they come with the Blood Angels Chapter sprue:
This are the old ones:
Spoiler:

The box art:
Spoiler:

But, looking at the USA shop... why are Vanguard Veterans 1$ cheaper than the normal Assault Squad? In pounds they cost the same, and in euros the Assault Squad cost 33€ for the 35€ of the Vanguard one, so Vanguard are 2€ more expensive.

EDIT: But what I know. Maybe they have been here all the time. Last time I checked last month the blood angels kits, they wheren't there. Only the Blood Angels Sternguard.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 03:34:13


Post by: Omega-soul


 skchsan wrote:
has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?

Yep - that's from Angels Blade release.
It's the vanila space marine kit + blood angels upgrade sprue in one box.
But apart from that - nothing new.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 05:33:40


Post by: casvalremdeikun


The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 05:52:30


Post by: Kirasu


 skchsan wrote:
has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?


Not new at all.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 11:10:09


Post by: Ragnar69


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.


Yes, the hands on the weapons of the SW upgrade sprue are very big. Looks like they have been designed for Primaris from the beginning. I gues it's the same with the BA one.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 12:09:12


Post by: theharrower


Ragnar69 wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.


Yes, the hands on the weapons of the SW upgrade sprue are very big. Looks like they have been designed for Primaris from the beginning. I gues it's the same with the BA one.


Blood Angels are getting a Primaris upgrade kit. Our intercessors can’t take a power sword. Just a chainsword. There is no chainsword on the BA upgrade sprue.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 13:46:16


Post by: SpyderG6


 theharrower wrote:
Ragnar69 wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.


Yes, the hands on the weapons of the SW upgrade sprue are very big. Looks like they have been designed for Primaris from the beginning. I gues it's the same with the BA one.


Blood Angels are getting a Primaris upgrade kit. Our intercessors can’t take a power sword. Just a chainsword. There is no chainsword on the BA upgrade sprue.



Also the Inceptors and Aggressors have larger pauldrons that the normal shoulder pads do not fit. We may not be getting them today ,but I would be surprised if they don't come out with more upgrade packs that fill these gaps. Might be a good opportunity for FW as their might not be enough interest to justify a plastic sprue and GW moves away from finecast.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 15:25:28


Post by: theharrower


Spoiler:
SpyderG6 wrote:
 theharrower wrote:
Ragnar69 wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.


Yes, the hands on the weapons of the SW upgrade sprue are very big. Looks like they have been designed for Primaris from the beginning. I gues it's the same with the BA one.


Blood Angels are getting a Primaris upgrade kit. Our intercessors can’t take a power sword. Just a chainsword. There is no chainsword on the BA upgrade sprue.


Also the Inceptors and Aggressors have larger pauldrons that the normal shoulder pads do not fit. We may not be getting them today ,but I would be surprised if they don't come out with more upgrade packs that fill these gaps. Might be a good opportunity for FW as their might not be enough interest to justify a plastic sprue and GW moves away from finecast.


FW would be the only option for something like this. Plastic sprue for 2 units that not everyone uses would be too cost prohibitive.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 15:53:28


Post by: p5freak


I guess our codex wont be coming this month. Tyranid codex had previews almost two weeks before release. No preview of BA or DA so far


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 15:58:36


Post by: Bremon


Could be a shorter preview window to give necromunda room to breathe, or it could be a Dec. 2 release date.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 16:29:05


Post by: wuestenfux


 Slinky wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).


I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 18:34:21


Post by: Red__Thirst


 wuestenfux wrote:
 Slinky wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).


I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.


No, they shouldn't be troops, they're not troops. Blood Angels don't magically have more assault marines than any other chapter. They have tactical marines aplenty, more than any other 'type' of marine, and follow the codex astartes as closely as they're able.

I wish people would stop asking for this. Now that you have the Outrider detachment, you can field all the assault marines you want as 'troops' for your army in lieu of tactical squads or scouts as troops. It doesn't give you all the benefits of tactical marines, but that's a good thing in my opinion, because it makes it both a viable choice (complete with pro's and con's for both options) for someone, rather than being a no-brainer 'option' one way or the other.

Just my opinion on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 18:37:29


Post by: Neronoxx


 wuestenfux wrote:
Spoiler:
 Slinky wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).


I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.


While I'm not entirely against this idea that BA should have Assault marines as troops, I really don't think its a good idea. First off, the fluff doesn't support it; Tactical marines are still the mainstay of our chapter, with assault marines forming only 1/4 of the battle companies.
plus, it's a lazy 'fix'.
We shouldn't have assaults as troops, our tacticals should feel like assaults. Give us solid close combat rules and ways to blitzkrieg the enemy across our whole codex. Give us Landspeeder storms, let our tacticals take Close Combat weapons (they come in the new kit for crying out loud) and give us decent stratagems to support this.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/16 19:03:50


Post by: MasterSlowPoke


I'd like to see BA Assault Marines get Objsec while remaining FA choices.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 06:57:48


Post by: niv-mizzet


 Red__Thirst wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
 Slinky wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).


I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.


No, they shouldn't be troops, they're not troops. Blood Angels don't magically have more assault marines than any other chapter. They have tactical marines aplenty, more than any other 'type' of marine, and follow the codex astartes as closely as they're able.

I wish people would stop asking for this. Now that you have the Outrider detachment, you can field all the assault marines you want as 'troops' for your army in lieu of tactical squads or scouts as troops. It doesn't give you all the benefits of tactical marines, but that's a good thing in my opinion, because it makes it both a viable choice (complete with pro's and con's for both options) for someone, rather than being a no-brainer 'option' one way or the other.

Just my opinion on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


People misunderstand this point a lot. To be fair, it's not talked about a lot in the books.

Assault marines being troops is not to reflect that they have more dedicated assault marines. It's to show that BA are trained as assault marines immediately after their tenure as a scout, and the fluff directly states that they always keep their jump pack maintained even after leaving the assault squads in case they need to be utilized as jump infantry. That means out of the ideal codex numbers, they have NINE HUNDRED potential assault marines. So yes, in a sense, they have waaaaay more ASM than other chapters. (although I suppose a hundred of those would actually be vanguard veterans if they put on their packs instead, so maybe 800?) The book that introduced them as troops even specifies that they don't have more ASM than other chapters, they just have more people ready and willing to BE ASM at a moment's notice.

7e BA codex: "They are comprised of those battle-brothers newly graduated from the scout squads..." "Thanks to their genetic heritage, the Blood Angels take naturally to flight, and there is never a shortage of warriors eager to sour into battle upon the wings of a jump pack. Thus the Blood Angels' Assault Squads, while no more numerous than those of any other Chapter, are the most likely to remain at full strength while on campaign."

5e BA codex (Note that this is the one with ASM troops): "Whilst Assault Marines are incredibly common in a Blood Angels strike force, this should not be taken to indicate that Assault Squads are more prevalent here than in other Chapters..." >stuff about how they do follow the codex and have two ASM squads per battle company< "However, given the Blood Angels' predilection for jump packs in general, and close assault in particular, there is rarely a shortage of Battle Brothers with suitable training and termperament to fill Assault Squad rosters as casualties occur. So it is that Assault Squads are likely to remain at full strength, even though the rest of the strike force be woefully undermanned."


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 07:34:45


Post by: Neronoxx


I really don't think that the preference rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army necessarily determines what their main stay force is on the tabletop.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 07:43:24


Post by: niv-mizzet


Neronoxx wrote:
I really don't think that the rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army determines what their main stay force is.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."


I think you missed the part where the assault marines covering an objective might BE tacticals. Just with their jump packs on.

I'm just correcting the common misconception that the reason they were troops at one time was because they had more. The codex that had them as troops directly says that is NOT the case, but at the same time they effectively DO have more because EVERYONE who isn't a scout is a potential assault marine.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 07:50:44


Post by: Neronoxx


 niv-mizzet wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
I really don't think that the rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army determines what their main stay force is.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."


I think you missed the part where the assault marines covering an objective might BE tacticals. Just with their jump packs on.

I'm just correcting the common misconception that the reason they were troops at one time was because they had more. The codex that had them as troops directly says that is NOT the case, but at the same time they effectively DO have more because EVERYONE who isn't a scout is a potential assault marine.


Tactical Marines armed as Assault marines aren't Tactical Marines, or are you going to tell me that a tactical marine armed as an assault marine does the same job as a tactical marine armed as an tactical marine? Assault marines can not do what tacticals can.

And we agree that they don't have more marines, I feel the last codex established that safely.
I want BA to be good, but assault marines as troops really does nothing for us if you think about where that places the army against its competitors. We need solid rules for our army, not a game of musical chairs with our troop choices.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 08:07:47


Post by: niv-mizzet


Neronoxx wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
I really don't think that the rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army determines what their main stay force is.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."


I think you missed the part where the assault marines covering an objective might BE tacticals. Just with their jump packs on.

I'm just correcting the common misconception that the reason they were troops at one time was because they had more. The codex that had them as troops directly says that is NOT the case, but at the same time they effectively DO have more because EVERYONE who isn't a scout is a potential assault marine.


Tactical Marines armed as Assault marines aren't Tactical Marines, or are you going to tell me that a tactical marine armed as an assault marine does the same job as a tactical marine armed as an tactical marine? Assault marines can not do what tacticals can.

And we agree that they don't have more marines, I feel the last codex established that safely.
I want BA to be good, but assault marines as troops really does nothing for us if you think about where that places the army against its competitors. We need solid rules for our army, not a game of musical chairs with our troop choices.


I wasn't the one saying they should be troops. AGAIN, I was correcting a misconception that people always respond with when someone suggests that they should be. And I never said that change would do us any good either. Please pay attention to who you're responding to.

And just because you hand tactical sergeant Joe a jump pack does not make him stop being a tactical sergeant. He may not currently be in a tactical squad for a mission, but that does not make him NOT a tactical marine. Are you seriously thinking that once they get the title of tactical marine that they lose all ability to strap on a pack and fly? I think you are thinking waaaay too much in terms of game mechanics and not about fluff, which is what was being discussed on this tangent.

On the topic of in-game performance, I'd love for traditional BA with a focus on jump packs and assaults to be good, but they would need some way to mitigate cheap enemy screen units, which hard-counter close-range and assault lists in the current game. Perhaps if they caused an extra morale test on any squad that they charged that would help them get past the screens faster, or if they had a strat for a squad to do a precision landing instead of staying 9" away so they could actually put some damage on the really important enemy units that usually sit behind the screens shooting or smiting in safety.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 08:39:25


Post by: Neronoxx


Okay.
First, can you use the spoiler tag?
Second, maybe take things less personal.
Third, I never said you said anything. Was reiterating my position, which is relevant.
Fourth, assaults and tacticals are armed with different weapons for different jobs. This means they do not adequately fill each others roles. That's pretty simple.
Fifth, accurate deep striking has long been a Blood Angel trait. While I don't see them giving us any love in terms of the 9" away from enemies, I could see a bonus to charging from reserves or something similar as an alternative.
But withou a major melee component like rerolls wounds or something similar it wont matter.
We need to be good at combat before GW starts worrying about how to get us there. And basic marines are suckish in melee, so that'll be the make-or-break for us.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 08:42:42


Post by: draugadan


You continue to confuse in game mechanics with fluff. inv-midget is talking about fluff not in game mechanics.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 13:35:14


Post by: theharrower


There are going to be a lot of disappointed Blood Angels players if we expect our Codex to fix the assault rules. That's a core rulebook problem and beyond what the Codex can fix. I'm sure assault for us will be more viable, but as the sole playstyle for the army it'll never happen unless tweaks to the fight phase are made which isn't coming anytime soon.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 18:34:55


Post by: niv-mizzet


Neronoxx wrote:
Okay.
First, can you use the spoiler tag?
Second, maybe take things less personal.
Third, I never said you said anything. Was reiterating my position, which is relevant.
Fourth, assaults and tacticals are armed with different weapons for different jobs. This means they do not adequately fill each others roles. That's pretty simple.
Fifth, accurate deep striking has long been a Blood Angel trait. While I don't see them giving us any love in terms of the 9" away from enemies, I could see a bonus to charging from reserves or something similar as an alternative.
But withou a major melee component like rerolls wounds or something similar it wont matter.
We need to be good at combat before GW starts worrying about how to get us there. And basic marines are suckish in melee, so that'll be the make-or-break for us.


-I'm not taking anything personal, just saying that it seems like you're jumping in while misunderstanding the discussion and/or responding to the wrong person. Maybe you're projecting?

-reiterating your position to someone has the implication that they disagree with it. You don't keep telling someone that the sky is blue unless they say it isn't.

-You are talking about in game mechanics, where yes, tacticals are armed with bolters and asm are armed with CS/pistol/pack, and there is no accounting for the fluff of whether those are the actual normal positions for those specific marines. We were not discussing the in-game mechanics at all though. RT brought up fluff justification (or lack thereof,) of a rule, and I was responding with fluff justification for it. In fluff a tactical marine can grab his chainsword, bolt pistol, and jump pack out of his locker onboard the battle barge if his captain says he needs extra assault power for a mission. That doesn't make him not a tactical marine, just like the captain changing his loadout doesn't make him not a captain. The only difference is that actual mechanics on the table allow the captain to do that, while they don't represent the possibility of the tac marine doing so.

-I don't disagree that we need melee love in general, especially quite a bit more punch, but speaking as an experienced tourney player and judge, the biggest problem I see with melee and close range armies is the existence of stubborn screen units. Some armies, for a mere hundred or two points, can completely contain incoming damage to their screens for the first couple turns while dealing damage with the entire rest of their army. The close range style currently can't beat this strategy played correctly without at least a solid turn of the opponent rolling 1's. And while you might say "well you should have some long range elements," that would be a short sighted comment. Having only a handful number of units doing anything relevant while the rest swim in a screen of bodies is still a losing proposition. You only approach viability in that situation as more and more of your army becomes long range and doesn't care about the screen. And once you become a long range army, you discover you need a screen yourself so that you don't get beat down by the odd close range army, and then you realize that you're now playing guard. As harrower said, this is a core mechanic issue and a giant roadblock to anything melee becoming relevant.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 19:55:14


Post by: Mr_Rose


I think it’d be cool if BA could field “jump tactcals” with jump packs and M12" and the Fly rule but also boltguns and special weapons.
Like, literally take the tactical squad entry and add the option to have jump packs.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 21:56:08


Post by: cuda1179


 Mr_Rose wrote:
I think it’d be cool if BA could field “jump tactcals” with jump packs and M12" and the Fly rule but also boltguns and special weapons.
Like, literally take the tactical squad entry and add the option to have jump packs.


I was thinking this as well, although I would hesitate to let them have heavy weapons.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/17 22:44:18


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 Mr_Rose wrote:
I think it’d be cool if BA could field “jump tactcals” with jump packs and M12" and the Fly rule but also boltguns and special weapons.
Like, literally take the tactical squad entry and add the option to have jump packs.
That's basically what BA Assault Squads are. They can't take Boltguns though.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 03:17:39


Post by: Melissia


Or special weapons. Only special overpriced underperforming pistols.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 04:25:21


Post by: Arachnofiend


 theharrower wrote:
There are going to be a lot of disappointed Blood Angels players if we expect our Codex to fix the assault rules. That's a core rulebook problem and beyond what the Codex can fix. I'm sure assault for us will be more viable, but as the sole playstyle for the army it'll never happen unless tweaks to the fight phase are made which isn't coming anytime soon.

Are there any armies that have assault as its "sole playstyle"? Even orkz do a lot of their damage in the psychic phase with weirdboyz. Chaos and Tyranids both have very successful assault units, but play them in a combined arms strategy with shooting backing up the Khorne Berzerkers and Genestealers.

It's probably not realistic to expect Blood Angels to be able to simply rush down an army and win purely in the assault phase, but it is quite possible for them to win with the same mixed approach that other "assault" armies are using.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 04:30:37


Post by: Rihgu


Uh, I thought the progression of most codex chapters was
Scout->Devastator "extra body"->Devastator proper->Assault Marine->Tactical Marine.

So by the logic that "Blood Angels Tacticals train as Assault Marines" EVERY chapter should get both Assault Marines and Devastator squads as troops.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 04:38:03


Post by: Red__Thirst


 Melissia wrote:
Or special weapons. Only special overpriced underperforming pistols.


Blood Angels assault squads are able to take Flamers, Plasma Guns, and Meltaguns, in addition to plasma pistols, hand flamers, and inferno pistols, at no restriction on numbers (meaning you can put two special weapons in a 5 man squad with a sergeant armed with a combi-weapon if you want). Our Assault Squads are actually pretty great as far as options go compared to standard 'codex' chapters.

If you opt to remove their jump packs and stick them in a rhino or drop pod then you essentially have a close combat 'tactical squad' with chain swords & bolt pistols, 2x special weapons, but no heavy weapon option. No objective secured either, of course.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rihgu wrote:
Uh, I thought the progression of most codex chapters was
Scout->Devastator "extra body"->Devastator proper->Assault Marine->Tactical Marine.

So by the logic that "Blood Angels Tacticals train as Assault Marines" EVERY chapter should get both Assault Marines and Devastator squads as troops.


Close, but not quite.
The progression is Scout (10th Co,) -> Assault Marine (Reserve Co.) -> Devastator Marine (Reserve Co.) -> Tactical Marine (Reserve Co.) Then once they've finished their rotation and the need arises (if needed, before they finish), they get moved to a Battle Company as whatever they are specialized at.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 05:12:11


Post by: Galas


 Arachnofiend wrote:
 theharrower wrote:
There are going to be a lot of disappointed Blood Angels players if we expect our Codex to fix the assault rules. That's a core rulebook problem and beyond what the Codex can fix. I'm sure assault for us will be more viable, but as the sole playstyle for the army it'll never happen unless tweaks to the fight phase are made which isn't coming anytime soon.

Are there any armies that have assault as its "sole playstyle"? Even orkz do a lot of their damage in the psychic phase with weirdboyz. Chaos and Tyranids both have very successful assault units, but play them in a combined arms strategy with shooting backing up the Khorne Berzerkers and Genestealers.

It's probably not realistic to expect Blood Angels to be able to simply rush down an army and win purely in the assault phase, but it is quite possible for them to win with the same mixed approach that other "assault" armies are using.


The only pure 100% Meele No Shooting is Khorne Only Final Destination. And even then, they have some shooting! Blood Angels aren't just meele. They are meele with shooting as support. Black Templars are even more meele focused than Blood Angels.

Personally I think the name of Assault Squads is misleading. Assault Squads aren't for assault. They work like raptors. To carry special weapons and do short-range shooting attacks on the enemy more vulnerable points. And then, if something remains alive, charge it. The proper Assault Marine units are the Vanguard Veterans (Or in the case of Blood Angels, Death Company and Sanguinary Guard)


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 11:34:38


Post by: niv-mizzet


 Galas wrote:


Black Templars are even more meele focused than Blood Angels.


Can you cite a source for that claim? BA were the loyalist counterparts and rivals of the world eaters, as both were legions specializing in shock assault close combat. Common knowledge of the fluff is that they are both the final word in melee on their respective sides of the heresy. So I'd like to get a source on the claim that BT are more melee focused.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 13:11:20


Post by: ViciousThirst


I just wish some rules and traits were leaked...please oh please give us a new mephiston model..so goddanm goofy looking


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 13:23:40


Post by: Mr_Rose


 cuda1179 wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
I think it’d be cool if BA could field “jump tactcals” with jump packs and M12" and the Fly rule but also boltguns and special weapons.
Like, literally take the tactical squad entry and add the option to have jump packs.


I was thinking this as well, although I would hesitate to let them have heavy weapons.

Maybe add an extra rule where if they move more than half rate they get extra -1 to hit with heavy weapons, in addition to the normal penalty for moving at all?
Or block taking heavy weapons at all, I suppose…


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 16:01:12


Post by: Galas


 niv-mizzet wrote:
 Galas wrote:


Black Templars are even more meele focused than Blood Angels.


Can you cite a source for that claim? BA were the loyalist counterparts and rivals of the world eaters, as both were legions specializing in shock assault close combat. Common knowledge of the fluff is that they are both the final word in melee on their respective sides of the heresy. So I'd like to get a source on the claim that BT are more melee focused.


Blood Angels where a mix of Emperor Childrens and World Eathers in their legion traits and personality. I see in the Blood Angels a more complex and depth aproach to how they are represented than the Black Templar one of: Always Meele, All the Time and Kill The Witch!
I apologice, I should have add that, it whas in my opinion that Black Templars are even more meele focused than Blood Angels.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 18:19:34


Post by: Crazyterran


 Red__Thirst wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Or special weapons. Only special overpriced underperforming pistols.


Blood Angels assault squads are able to take Flamers, Plasma Guns, and Meltaguns, in addition to plasma pistols, hand flamers, and inferno pistols, at no restriction on numbers (meaning you can put two special weapons in a 5 man squad with a sergeant armed with a combi-weapon if you want). Our Assault Squads are actually pretty great as far as options go compared to standard 'codex' chapters.

If you opt to remove their jump packs and stick them in a rhino or drop pod then you essentially have a close combat 'tactical squad' with chain swords & bolt pistols, 2x special weapons, but no heavy weapon option. No objective secured either, of course.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rihgu wrote:
Uh, I thought the progression of most codex chapters was
Scout->Devastator "extra body"->Devastator proper->Assault Marine->Tactical Marine.

So by the logic that "Blood Angels Tacticals train as Assault Marines" EVERY chapter should get both Assault Marines and Devastator squads as troops.


Close, but not quite.
The progression is Scout (10th Co,) -> Assault Marine (Reserve Co.) -> Devastator Marine (Reserve Co.) -> Tactical Marine (Reserve Co.) Then once they've finished their rotation and the need arises (if needed, before they finish), they get moved to a Battle Company as whatever they are specialized at.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


No, it's Scout - Dev Spotter (to let them get used to the Power Armour) - Dev - Assault Marine - Tactical Reserves (one of the reserves focuses on Bikes, the other on Land Speeders) - then into the Battle Companies.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 21:06:07


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 niv-mizzet wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
I really don't think that the rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army determines what their main stay force is.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."


I think you missed the part where the assault marines covering an objective might BE tacticals. Just with their jump packs on.

I'm just correcting the common misconception that the reason they were troops at one time was because they had more. The codex that had them as troops directly says that is NOT the case, but at the same time they effectively DO have more because EVERYONE who isn't a scout is a potential assault marine.

Which is fascinating because Blood Angels assault Marines get a lot better loadout options than their Tactical Marines.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/18 21:15:10


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Well, BA Tacticals can go tri-Flamer, which is a neat trick. Too bad they take a long time to get where they will actually be effective.

Honestly, I would love to see BA be able to move their Transports and disembark after the movement.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/19 21:41:07


Post by: Omega-soul


Another damn week of waiting.
I can't belive that almost everyone else get their basic rules before Dark/Blood angels!
That's just mean.
No rumors, no sneakpeaks and even then nothing set in stone - The BA codex may delay or be after Dark angels.




Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 09:15:36


Post by: Jidmah


Did anyone else realize the irony of red and green marines being released for Christmas?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 10:35:48


Post by: Kdash


Whole lot of Assault Marine wishful thinking here

I’d be extremely surprised if Assault Squads became troops or gained obsec (extremely extremely surprised).

As for the “deep strike within 9 inches”, good luck. If they did gain the ability to, they’d almost certainly get a restriction like the Mawloc – i.e no charge after. Plus, I’d personally expect that ability to be given more to Raven Guard than Blood Angels due to their whole “decapitating strike” doctrine etc. Blood Angels, to me, have always been more around the “controlled” ferocity of melee combat and a sense of duty and honour.

I can see them getting most of the main Space Marine stratagems, along with a couple of extras focused on melee and charge distances. They’d also likely get something for Death Company, the Librarian Dreadnought and Baal Predators.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 11:31:32


Post by: p5freak


 Jidmah wrote:
Did anyone else realize the irony of red and green marines being released for Christmas?


Maybe there will be a special limited edition Santa Claus Dante model ?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 11:43:48


Post by: Mr Morden


 Omega-soul wrote:
Another damn week of waiting.
I can't belive that almost everyone else get their basic rules before Dark/Blood angels!
That's just mean.
No rumors, no sneakpeaks and even then nothing set in stone - The BA codex may delay or be after Dark angels.




Well they are after most MARINE dexes I guess - its such a disaster that other non marine factions delayed the release of yet another Marine dex to match the other 6 or 7 that will already be out by then.

Not like there are other armies that need them or anything. Yeah they get something in the Chapter Approved book - along with guess what more Marine stuff.

Blood Angels until their Space Wolf style flanderisation were very codex adherent, with the removal of the flaws in the BA Primaris be interesting to see what elements fade and which they keep. The entire Chapter needs to be rebuilt (again) so there is a whole opportunity there.

Also for me interested to see what coverage (if any) the successor Chapters get - this would be much more interesting to me than yet more bloody blood units/weapons etc.

A post Primaris update should be interesting - what actually happened to all the non Blood Angels (including Successors, Guard, Sisters, Navy) at Baal - is just them who survived?

There is a lot they could do with this Codex.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 13:39:04


Post by: Cheeslord


 niv-mizzet wrote:


On the topic of in-game performance, I'd love for traditional BA with a focus on jump packs and assaults to be good, but they would need some way to mitigate cheap enemy screen units, which hard-counter close-range and assault lists in the current game. Perhaps if they caused an extra morale test on any squad that they charged that would help them get past the screens faster, or if they had a strat for a squad to do a precision landing instead of staying 9" away so they could actually put some damage on the really important enemy units that usually sit behind the screens shooting or smiting in safety.


Alternatively, a way to be able to assault in a turn they fell back? (having FLY they can shoot, but IIRC cannot assault, but if they could effectively fly over the heads of the bubblewrap unit to get to the stuff behind.... (problem is that takes 2 turns, and the enemy can just fall back from combat on their turn to let the shooty things shoot you anyway...))


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 14:52:42


Post by: Bremon


At this point I just want to know a release date. Waiting every week for warhammer community to announce other things...brutal. On a positive note with Chapter Approved releasing first I suppose we will have properly priced points without needing to reference two books.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 17:13:45


Post by: alextroy


I wouldn't assume that. Publishing a Hardback Codex probably takes longer than publishing a softback that I expect Chapter Approved to be. That means GW would have time to change the values between going to press.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 17:34:15


Post by: niv-mizzet


It might be a nice way to get through good screen units if they brought back blender claws on the dreads. There definitely needs to be things in the game that start showing up to make armies with access to them at least consider not auto-taking the best wounds per point screen units.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 18:19:43


Post by: Bremon


 alextroy wrote:
I wouldn't assume that. Publishing a Hardback Codex probably takes longer than publishing a softback that I expect Chapter Approved to be. That means GW would have time to change the values between going to press.
Frankly, that would be infuriating.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/20 21:22:33


Post by: Voss


 alextroy wrote:
I wouldn't assume that. Publishing a Hardback Codex probably takes longer than publishing a softback


Not appreciably. Especially not for the binding method GW uses for hardbacks- the pages are just glued* to a cloth strip, and the whole text block is attached to the case (the book covers) solely by the end pages. By contrast, the interior covers of the softbacks (like the indexes), are themselves printed material, which makes for a slightly more complicated process, depending on how they do it (hopefully they'd do front/back and inside covers as one document, and the codex contents as another document, but I can see them being contrary and treating the interior covers as pages 0 and 97 respectively. But any decent publisher would be angered by that approach, and explain why it is stupid)

*overglued, actually, considering how much excess glue appears at the top and bottom of several of my GW books, and I can actually see glue acting as filler between the back edge of page groups.

That means GW would have time to change the values between going to press.

Nope. Between printing time and shipping/travel time from China to distribution centers, both books would have been finalized 4-6 weeks ago.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/21 03:12:03


Post by: alextroy


I expect we will know for sure in 3 to 4 weeks.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/22 20:17:55


Post by: theharrower


We are definitely getting at least a Primaris upgrade kit? A saw a pic of the back of the new White Dwarf. It's a Primaris Marine with a winged blood drop chest, power sword with a basket hilt, and a new bare head. There's another Primaris chest with a winged chalice and one with one of those shoulder shields with a blood drop on it. Looks very cool!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/22 21:18:54


Post by: Tonhel


 theharrower wrote:
We are definitely getting at least a Primaris upgrade kit? A saw a pic of the back of the new White Dwarf. It's a Primaris Marine with a winged blood drop chest, power sword with a basket hilt, and a new bare head. There's another Primaris chest with a winged chalice and one with one of those shoulder shields with a blood drop on it. Looks very cool!


That sounds great!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/22 21:20:46


Post by: Crimson


 theharrower wrote:
We are definitely getting at least a Primaris upgrade kit? A saw a pic of the back of the new White Dwarf. It's a Primaris Marine with a winged blood drop chest, power sword with a basket hilt, and a new bare head. There's another Primaris chest with a winged chalice and one with one of those shoulder shields with a blood drop on it. Looks very cool!

Saw how? Why are there no pics of this all over the internet?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/22 21:22:09


Post by: Omega-soul


 theharrower wrote:
We are definitely getting at least a Primaris upgrade kit? A saw a pic of the back of the new White Dwarf. It's a Primaris Marine with a winged blood drop chest, power sword with a basket hilt, and a new bare head. There's another Primaris chest with a winged chalice and one with one of those shoulder shields with a blood drop on it. Looks very cool!


Did you take the picture?

Also in Devastation of Baal - we will have the same 6 relics for vanila angels, reliquiary of amit for Flesh tearers, some Banner and armours for other successors.
At least according to a book/

"The Chapter Lords of the Blood watched in respectful quiet as the mightiest of their number went to stand at his place at the table. The artefacts his comrades carried – the blood, the feather, the standard, the ancient armours – were of the most sacred kind to all the Chapters of the Blood, but it was Dante’s gleaming, golden presence that held all their attention."

"After them servitors shepherded velvet padded grav-sleds bearing other relics: the sword Valour’s Edge, the plasma pistol Fury of Baal, Gallian’s Staff, the Angel’s Wing, the Crown Angelic, sitting easy upon a polished skull, and then the Veritas Vitae, the machine blessed enough to record the words of Sanguinius himself, then repeat them upon the field of battle."


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/22 22:39:55


Post by: theharrower


 Crimson wrote:
 theharrower wrote:
We are definitely getting at least a Primaris upgrade kit? A saw a pic of the back of the new White Dwarf. It's a Primaris Marine with a winged blood drop chest, power sword with a basket hilt, and a new bare head. There's another Primaris chest with a winged chalice and one with one of those shoulder shields with a blood drop on it. Looks very cool!

Saw how? Why are there no pics of this all over the internet?


They'll drop soon enough. Didn't take a pic. Preorder is Dec 2th. Release is on the 9th.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/22 22:44:54


Post by: zamerion


 theharrower wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 theharrower wrote:
We are definitely getting at least a Primaris upgrade kit? A saw a pic of the back of the new White Dwarf. It's a Primaris Marine with a winged blood drop chest, power sword with a basket hilt, and a new bare head. There's another Primaris chest with a winged chalice and one with one of those shoulder shields with a blood drop on it. Looks very cool!

Saw how? Why are there no pics of this all over the internet?


They'll drop soon enough. Didn't take a pic. Preorder is Dec 2th. Release is on the 9th.
thanks for the info! Something more news from the wd?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 07:13:09


Post by: Red__Thirst


I'm curious to see if we get the standard 'classic' relics from the previous codex, or if we'll get a blend of the classics, plus some of them from the Angel's Blade supplement that are death company themed (and pretty cool also!)

Personally speaking, I'm just Glad Death Masks are a thing again. My captain always had one way back in 3rd edition and I was bummed to see it removed in the 5th edition codex (though to be fair, I never cared for that codex myself). I'm intensely curious to see how the Crown Angelc will work if it's retained in the new codex, as that's the relic I usually went with on my jump pack Captain, with the Veritas Vitae on my jump pack Librarian more often than not.

I'm ready for some rumors on Blood Angels to arrive. Fingers crossed we'll get something leading up to the 2nd preorder date if it holds to be true.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 07:57:01


Post by: p5freak


I gave up hope that we will see any sneak peeks or previews this month.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 08:25:06


Post by: Omega-soul


p5freak wrote:
I gave up hope that we will see any sneak peeks or previews this month.


Well - White dwarf is leaking.
Consider pre-order date being December 2nd - I would assume that GW show some sneak peak in next week.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 11:18:43


Post by: Red__Thirst


 Omega-soul wrote:
p5freak wrote:
I gave up hope that we will see any sneak peeks or previews this month.


Well - White dwarf is leaking.
Consider pre-order date being December 2nd - I would assume that GW show some sneak peak in next week.


Yea I suspect we'll get a week or so of previews for the week of Dec 2nd - Dec 9th, then Dark Angels will get a week following that before their codex releases before Christmas.

Each day will be something teased, character changes, strategems, relics, psychic powers, etc. each day.

We'll see. I'll be tapping my foot in the mean time. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 12:06:33


Post by: zamerion




Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 12:10:56


Post by: Crimson


That is no conversion kit, it's a full new model.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 12:14:09


Post by: JohnnyHell


Wow. One whole new Chapter-specific model per 'Angels' army. Woo. Spoiling us.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 12:25:05


Post by: unmercifulconker


I can't stop laughing at the Dark Angels head, what a smug looking bastard.

At least we finally get a Black Templar Primaris robe

Damn though was hoping for a BA Primaris sprue. Can't wait for the codex though, this WD has come up quick. BA are the faction I am probably most interested in finding out what they are up to at the moment, especially with the whole gigantic rift. That and I have a load of kits waiting for the codex drop.



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 12:30:34


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Would have at least thought they'd have had a Primaris Chapter Sprue ready for this.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 12:34:49


Post by: p5freak


A useless Primaris Lieutenant who can't go in a rhino/razorback/land raider. Pathetic.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 12:45:13


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Hmmm. I kinda need that guy.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 13:18:01


Post by: Tiberius501


I really like him, he looks awesome! The artical also mentions that these are the first of the Primaris figures specific to them, so that sounds like there'll be more coming in the future. I do hope they announce an upgrade sprue as well, I'd love to get a Small force of BAngel Primaris, lead by a chaplain and that glorious Lieutenant


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 13:47:19


Post by: WatcherZero


There is supposed to be a Primaris upgrade sprue as well as the lieutenants.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 13:50:41


Post by: Crimson


WatcherZero wrote:
There is supposed to be a Primaris upgrade sprue as well as the lieutenants.
Where was that said?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 13:53:32


Post by: theharrower


 Crimson wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
There is supposed to be a Primaris upgrade sprue as well as the lieutenants.
Where was that said?


I saw it. We get an upgrade kit as well as access to the Stormhawk, Hunter, and Stalker.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 14:01:50


Post by: Tiberius501


 theharrower wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
There is supposed to be a Primaris upgrade sprue as well as the lieutenants.
Where was that said?


I saw it. We get an upgrade kit as well as access to the Stormhawk, Hunter, and Stalker.


They'll hopefully announce this on Saturday then. With the chests you saw, did they have any cloth bits like loin cloths? Or was it just the winged blood drop/chalice designs? Also, did the bare head have a buzz cut or long hair?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 14:12:10


Post by: Omega-soul


 theharrower wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
There is supposed to be a Primaris upgrade sprue as well as the lieutenants.
Where was that said?


I saw it. We get an upgrade kit as well as access to the Stormhawk, Hunter, and Stalker.


I wonder - is it only stormhawk or there is also a stormtalon?
They come in 1 box, so i'am curious if GW gives access only to a one build


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 14:26:00


Post by: theharrower


 Tiberius501 wrote:
 theharrower wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
There is supposed to be a Primaris upgrade sprue as well as the lieutenants.
Where was that said?


I saw it. We get an upgrade kit as well as access to the Stormhawk, Hunter, and Stalker.


They'll hopefully announce this on Saturday then. With the chests you saw, did they have any cloth bits like loin cloths? Or was it just the winged blood drop/chalice designs? Also, did the bare head have a buzz cut or long hair?


So I was wrong on the winged chalice. Was a grainy pic I was looking at. The upgrade kit is pretty much like the Ultramarine one with a chainsword and heavy bolt pistol and reliquaries instead of purity seals. I don't think there was a chest on there. I could be wrong. It's all in Saturdays White Dwarf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Omega-soul wrote:
 theharrower wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
There is supposed to be a Primaris upgrade sprue as well as the lieutenants.
Where was that said?


I saw it. We get an upgrade kit as well as access to the Stormhawk, Hunter, and Stalker.


I wonder - is it only stormhawk or there is also a stormtalon?
They come in 1 box, so i'am curious if GW gives access only to a one build


So that info came from the design commentary in White Dwarf. It's most likely both, but they mentioned the hawk and not the talon.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 14:31:32


Post by: Crimson


Yes. Only chainsword in the upgrade kit. They're really going to disallow BA Intercessors from taking power swords.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 14:35:23


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Well, the fact I have two Stalkers sitting in boxes right now just got a little less disappointing. And hopefully they can take a Stormtalon, since I have one of those on Sprue as well. Not that any of these will see play, but I still like having options.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 14:43:41


Post by: Tiberius501


Ah that sucks about the upgrade sprue, but at least we're still getting something. I'd die if they randomly announced a new Dante figure too, but that's never going to happen


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 15:23:26


Post by: diepotato47


I love him! Just starting working on a Tactical Squad too, they'll look great on the table together


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 15:59:50


Post by: Neronoxx


edited for politeness
 Crimson wrote:
Yes. Only chainsword in the upgrade kit. They're really going to disallow BA Intercessors from taking power swords.

The only way I can see this at all being semi-logical from gw's perspective is if they intend for BA to be the "chainsword" guys, and gives us rules that boost our performance with these weapons indirectly.
I don't think thats whats happening here though. I think they hate us.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 19:26:39


Post by: cuda1179


Chainswords aren't necessarily bad weapons. Statistically they are better against horde armies. Aren't they pretty cheap too?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 19:44:15


Post by: Crimson


 cuda1179 wrote:
Chainswords aren't necessarily bad weapons. Statistically they are better against horde armies. Aren't they pretty cheap too?

I think they currently are free. But Power Swords are four points, so I'd gladly pay that, it is massively better against any foe with proper armour. And in any case, it would really make no sense to deny a close combat oriented chapter this weapon when everyone else can get it. But let's hope they've come to their sense and the option exists in the codex.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/23 22:51:20


Post by: cuda1179


 Crimson wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
Chainswords aren't necessarily bad weapons. Statistically they are better against horde armies. Aren't they pretty cheap too?

I think they currently are free. But Power Swords are four points, so I'd gladly pay that, it is massively better against any foe with proper armour. And in any case, it would really make no sense to deny a close combat oriented chapter this weapon when everyone else can get it. But let's hope they've come to their sense and the option exists in the codex.



Hypothetically here, who's to say it's actually a chainsword? What if BA Primaris marines have their own special version. Something like, +2 attacks, -1 AP? I'd buy that for a dollar.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 03:37:13


Post by: casvalremdeikun


So...rumor has it that Death Company are getting the Khorne Berserker Pile-In-Twice ability. Yay?

Also, I sincerely hope they decreased our special pistol prices to be the same as Sisters of Battle. I really want to run an Assault Squad with Inferno Pistols and not have it break the bank.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 05:03:06


Post by: Tiberius501


Death Company with the Berserker rule would be awesome and make sense


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 05:12:45


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 Tiberius501 wrote:
Death Company with the Berserker rule would be awesome and make sense
Absolutely. They are supposed to be relentless. And that rule fits them perfectly. I would totally be on board with the Black Rage being that rule rather than +1 Attack.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 06:41:30


Post by: Red__Thirst


I've been quietly wondering if the Death Company would get the fight twice rule a-la khorne berserkers.

The Death Company are the closest analogue to the Berzkerers on the Imperium side, with the added benefit of having the jump pack option, as well as the added resiliency/wound ignoring capability of the Black Rage.

I can see it happening, but I'm not sure how loud the Chaos players would moan about the DC getting the fight twice ability in addition to being more mobile and at least slightly tougher with the additional would ignoring save roll (which I suspect will remain at 6+, though I hope it drops to 5+ for the Death Company as it was in the previous edition).

I expect we'll be getting rumors in the next two weeks for both Blood Angels and Dark Angels in the lead up to Christmas. My foot's getting tired from all this tapping, though, I freely admit.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 07:16:27


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 Red__Thirst wrote:
I've been quietly wondering if the Death Company would get the fight twice rule a-la khorne berserkers.

The Death Company are the closest analogue to the Berzkerers on the Imperium side, with the added benefit of having the jump pack option, as well as the added resiliency/wound ignoring capability of the Black Rage.

I can see it happening, but I'm not sure how loud the Chaos players would moan about the DC getting the fight twice ability in addition to being more mobile and at least slightly tougher with the additional would ignoring save roll (which I suspect will remain at 6+, though I hope it drops to 5+ for the Death Company as it was in the previous edition).

I expect we'll be getting rumors in the next two weeks for both Blood Angels and Dark Angels in the lead up to Christmas. My foot's getting tired from all this tapping, though, I freely admit.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-
If they do complain just mention alpha legion turn-1 charging and that should shut them up.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 07:27:59


Post by: Mr_Rose


Tell you what DC should have: reverse morale. That is, they should have a relatively low Ld but take Morale checks in turns when they don’t take casualties, or are not in close combat, and not take checks when they do, to represent the rage overwhelming even their superhuman metabolisms and incapacitating them before they can find the blessed relief of death.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 07:50:28


Post by: Bremon


Nothing screams fun like your opponent not having to kill your models because they kill themselves. It could help sell more Rhinos and Razorbacks I suppose.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 10:54:30


Post by: casvalremdeikun


In other news, the Blood Angels Lieutenant, Lieutenant Tolmeron, is supposed to have a range of options. I am curious what they mean by that. Perhaps a bare head, maybe a different arm, perhaps with a pistol. Maybe the Power Sword can be exchanged for a a Chainsword.

I must say though, the BA Lieutenant just having a regular Veteran helmet is a bit disappointing. My BA Lieutenants are going to have Red Helmets with a Gold stripe. Perhaps with a Gold and White stripe.

The image of the Dark Angel shows him with a helmet. The Blood Angels images show nothing new, which is disappointing.

NM: You can see the base of the BA LT with no helmet. So that is confirmed.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 13:30:08


Post by: diepotato47


Seems to be leaked pics from the WD popping up all over the place, any more found with info about the BA dex or mini?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 15:03:57


Post by: casvalremdeikun


No Primaris Death Company.

Yet...



Also, BA Data Cards and BA Dice confirmed.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 15:25:08


Post by: diepotato47


$49 AUD for dice! Do they actually contain blood from the Primarch? I mean, I'll buy them anyway


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 15:30:38


Post by: Tiberius501


What's the actual pre-order date for the codexes?

And yeah $49 is a bit steep for some dice but... I'm still going to buy them too haha


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 17:14:27


Post by: casvalremdeikun


It actually looks like Dark Angels get their codex first.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 17:46:07


Post by: Bremon


Why does it look that way?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 19:44:32


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Bremon wrote:
Why does it look that way?
all of their items are listed first.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 20:08:31


Post by: Mr_Rose


Well, yeah, you gotta make it DA then BA; if you have it the other way around and then daemons first up the next month, that’s two chaos releases in a row and that’s just not allowed. :p


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 21:18:33


Post by: Omega-soul


Guy who leaked info from WD said that 2nd december BA pre-order 9th release.
DA - 9th pre-order 16th release


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/25 21:39:13


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 Omega-soul wrote:
Guy who leaked info from WD said that 2nd december BA pre-order 9th release.
DA - 9th pre-order 16th release
awesome. It comes out a weekend I will be able to go to a GW store.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 11:10:58


Post by: Tiberius501


Anyone know if the WD mentions any pre-order for upgrade sprues?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 13:39:12


Post by: theharrower


I'll just leave this here. Repost from B&C.















Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 13:48:03


Post by: Tiberius501


Ah nice. Though the sprue seems kind of lacking, I'm still keen to chuck on some BAngel iconography to my dudes. And ima buy those dice. If the skull represents the one, I'm keen to finally have BAngel dice with their logo for the 6. It was dumb with the last set getting disappointed when you saw the logo haha


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 14:34:35


Post by: casvalremdeikun


The Lieutenant looks great. Definite buy for me. Between him and my extra Dark Imperium Power Sword Lieutenant, I will have that role covered well. The upgrade sprue looks fantastic. I am definitely considering getting some. Some Intercessors and Inceptors will be on the receiving end of these Sprues for my army. I dunno.

I can't wait for this release!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 14:39:33


Post by: Bremon


I like the Dec.9 release date on the Lt.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 14:52:56


Post by: ImAGeek


Bremon wrote:
I like the Dec.9 release date on the Lt.


That and he’s much cheaper than previous Primaris characters.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 15:23:06


Post by: sockwithaticket


The pads heads and arms on the upgrade sprue are incredibly underwhelming. The Reliquaries and other extras are pretty cool.

The lieutenant is solid, if unspectacular, but chopping the sword hand to rotate it into a sensible pose (relative to what the rest of the model is doing) is mandatory.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 16:27:58


Post by: Tonhel


The Lieutenant looks nice, I find the upgrade a bit meh certainly compared with the non primaris Tactical Blood Angels set + old upgrade sprue.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 19:10:58


Post by: Red__Thirst


I prefer my Primaris Intercessor sergeant conversion, taking the Dark Imperium Intercessor sergeant and replacing the free/empty hand with a BA sergeant's chainsword from the Blood Angels tactical squad box. I'll have to get a picture of it later.

Overall I feel like our Lieutenant is the better of the two of them (DA/BA) visually and pose wise. I am admittedly biased though, obviously.

I'll be picking up the BA dice, I can always use more dice.

Datacards too, and the Codex. Looking forward to rumors soon, fingers crossed!

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-



Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 20:01:25


Post by: Kanluwen


Games Workshop Community wrote:
Codex: Blood Angels brings the scions of Baal into the new era of Warhammer 40,000 in full. This is one of the most exciting codexes in the post-Gathering Storm galaxy, featuring a wealth of new lore and a huge volume of new units, too. Inside, you’ll find how the Blood Angels are recovering – and even thriving – after their world was almost annihilated by Hive Fleet Leviathan, and how the latest wave of Primaris reinforcements are being accepted by the rest of the Chapter.

As for new rules, there’s all the awesome stuff you know and love from the rest of this edition’s codexes – Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Psychic Powers and more – as well as some special extras. You’ll now be able to clad the Archangels – the legendary, Terminator-armoured first company of the Blood Angels – in Cataphractii and Tartaros armour, diversifying the range of tactical options available to you. If you prefer aerial warfare, this codex sees the Blood Angels gain access to the popular Stormhawk Interceptor and well as the Stormtalon Gunship.

The new codex will also see the Blood Angels able to add a range of Primaris units to their army. To help, there’s a series of kits on the way, each featuring a unique Blood Angels upgrade frame containing weapons, shoulder pads and heads designed to make your squads fit with the rest of your Blood Angels collection. This frame will be available separately, too!


Spoiler:








The Lieutenant has a second head and hand option along with a holstered gun to go with it.
Can't tell whether or not the Aggressors are the normal kit or Easy to Build. I'm guessing normal but who knows?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 20:20:23


Post by: Prometheum5


 Kanluwen wrote:

Can't tell whether or not the Aggressors are the normal kit or Easy to Build. I'm guessing normal but who knows?


The EZ Build Aggressors wouldn't be able to make use of the BA Upgrade Sprue, which is the only reason for there to be a BA Aggressors box. It must be the normal kit.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 20:30:39


Post by: Galas


This will create a little problem for FLGS, I believe, if they make a Chapter X version of every primaris kit. But I'm not gonna complaint, if they put a sprue with Dark Angels symbols for 1/10 of his cost compared to buying it alone, in every Primaris Box, is all good for me.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 21:04:42


Post by: casvalremdeikun


I find it interesting that we aren't getting a BA Inceptor kit. Surely the upgrade sprue would be compatible with the Inceptor kit.

Right now, I intend to pick up a box of BA Intercessors, a regular box of Intercessors, and a box of Aggressors. Should make for a good start to adding Primaris to my BA.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 21:06:27


Post by: Kelly502


Can’t wait!!! Giddy like a 5 year old waiting for his ice cream! Saw some of the Primaris figures and they looked sharp!!


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 21:11:07


Post by: Tiberius501


Anyone got pics of the dice?


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 21:13:45


Post by: Elbows


I'm shocked they bother releasing an entirely new box of each Primaris with a simple BA sprue in it...just sell the damn sprue separately. That's a logistically dumb decision.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 21:17:03


Post by: Galas


 Elbows wrote:
I'm shocked they bother releasing an entirely new box of each Primaris with a simple BA sprue in it...just sell the damn sprue separately. That's a logistically dumb decision.


The sprues GW does normally cost 12€. When they put it on a box, the difference in price with the normal box isn't bigger than 2€. Personally I prefer that. I can understand it will be a pain in the ass to stockist. Maybe they'll do it "Direct Only"? I hope not.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 21:18:29


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Elbows wrote:
I'm shocked they bother releasing an entirely new box of each Primaris with a simple BA sprue in it...just sell the damn sprue separately. That's a logistically dumb decision.


It lets them push bigger ticket items up front, while I expect them to drop the BA specific boxes when stock runs out and put the sprue out separately, possibly as direct only, at a later point. It's not really different from when Space Wolves got their sky claws or long fangs boxes. Or the Deathwatch bikers and terminators


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 21:30:09


Post by: Kanluwen


 Elbows wrote:
I'm shocked they bother releasing an entirely new box of each Primaris with a simple BA sprue in it...just sell the damn sprue separately. That's a logistically dumb decision.

The new codex will also see the Blood Angels able to add a range of Primaris units to their army. To help, there’s a series of kits on the way, each featuring a unique Blood Angels upgrade frame containing weapons, shoulder pads and heads designed to make your squads fit with the rest of your Blood Angels collection. This frame will be available separately, too!

Try reading before complaining.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
I'm shocked they bother releasing an entirely new box of each Primaris with a simple BA sprue in it...just sell the damn sprue separately. That's a logistically dumb decision.


It lets them push bigger ticket items up front, while I expect them to drop the BA specific boxes when stock runs out and put the sprue out separately, possibly as direct only, at a later point. It's not really different from when Space Wolves got their sky claws or long fangs boxes. Or the Deathwatch bikers and terminators

It also lets them have an actual kit(probably discounted) rather than just telling people "Buy the $15 upgrade frame" for the time being.

Likely, it will be a limited stock item. Big push up front and then maybe 1 or 2 kept as regular stock.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
This will create a little problem for FLGS, I believe, if they make a Chapter X version of every primaris kit. But I'm not gonna complaint, if they put a sprue with Dark Angels symbols for 1/10 of his cost compared to buying it alone, in every Primaris Box, is all good for me.

Putting it rather bluntly, it's not that big of a problem unless the FLGS is bad at stock management.

It will likely be more of an issue for GW shops though. I don't expect to see the Reivers or Inceptors or any of the vehicles get put into the Primaris set-up, so that's just 3 kits that get added into the mix for each Marine subfaction that can take them(Deathwatch, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels). It's rather telling that they didn't even bother do an Ultramarines Primaris boxed set, despite having frames to do so.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 22:52:11


Post by: Voss


Wait, when did the entire first company get terminator armor?

Not that I'm complaining about BA finally getting rules to use Tarts and Carts, but I apparently missed a retcon somewhere.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/26 23:18:39


Post by: AegisGrimm


Should be always. It was the Blood Angels 1st company that went onto the Hulk in 3rd edition Space Hulk, I believe, rather than just standard Brothers in TDA armor.

Back in the day I was going to use the two squads and Librarian from the game and a couple other squads, Landraider and a Dread to be played as "Deathwing".


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 00:06:13


Post by: Bremon


I was under the impression only the first company was allowed to use TDA, but only the dark angels had enough of it for their entire first company to use it simultaneously.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 00:14:18


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Bremon wrote:
I was under the impression only the first company was allowed to use TDA, but only the dark angels had enough of it for their entire first company to use it simultaneously.
BA are probably one of the Chapters that is delivered new stuff a lot sooner than the other Chapters.

I just realized that the BA Intercessor and Hellblasters kits will have two of the Upgrade frame. That will help with me buying Inceptors for my BA.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 01:02:44


Post by: Voss


 AegisGrimm wrote:
Should be always. It was the Blood Angels 1st company that went onto the Hulk in 3rd edition Space Hulk, I believe, rather than just standard Brothers in TDA armor.

Yeah, and got wrecked, losing most of the first company and the suits. And that was back a thousand+ years.
As Bremon says, Dark Angels and their full company have been cast as one of the very, very few exceptions, most chapters have some amount, but rarely more than 30-50, if that.

casvalremdeikun wrote:BA are probably one of the Chapters that is delivered new stuff a lot sooner than the other Chapters.

Well, getting 'new stuff' is also a weird retcon.Terminator armour was often presented as relics that were painstakingly maintained and repaired, rather than just getting new shipments in with the yearly tithe of bullets.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 01:13:12


Post by: Bremon


Getting new stuff in 40k is synonymous with getting worse stuff for the most part; all the best stuff is ancient.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 01:34:43


Post by: casvalremdeikun


The fluff has evolved a bit over the years. Basically, it isn't forgotten tech and can't be replaced, it is just incredibly difficult to recreate. So, Chapters like Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves tend to be the Chapters that receive replacement pieces easier.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 02:30:05


Post by: pantheralegionnaire


It seems quite a few people on here are using the Primaris marine reinforcements, and that makes sense--the models are awesome, fun to paint, and units like helblasters are dead scary. This also fits into the narrative that GW is building, with the Blood Angels welcoming these new marines as a way of combating the Flaw.

This makes me wonder about what our "Chapter Tactic" might be, as I would sincerely hope that, whatever it is, it would extend to, and be useful to, Primaris marines. Right now all we have is the Black Rage special rules, which obviously have limited application.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 04:44:51


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Rumor has it that the Tactics are +1 to Charge and Advance distances, which is absolute garbage.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 05:04:49


Post by: rollawaythestone


Why is that garbage? On my Tyranids, I pay the points for Adrenal Glands (+1 Charge, +1 Advance) on every single model that can take them. I guarantee that the Blood Angels will get some nice Advance + Charge, or Deepstrike + Charge shenanigans that will synergize nicely with that ability.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 05:07:49


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 rollawaythestone wrote:
Why is that garbage? On my Tyranids, I pay the points for Adrenal Glands (+1 Charge, +1 Advance) on every single model that can take them. I guarantee that the Blood Angels will get some nice Advance + Charge, or Deepstrike + Charge shenanigans that will synergize nicely with that ability.
Because rerolling failed charges would be better. Someone did the math further up the thread.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 05:10:12


Post by: Kirasu


 rollawaythestone wrote:
Why is that garbage? On my Tyranids, I pay the points for Adrenal Glands (+1 Charge, +1 Advance) on every single model that can take them. I guarantee that the Blood Angels will get some nice Advance + Charge, or Deepstrike + Charge shenanigans that will synergize nicely with that ability.


Should probably just stop after "On my Tyranids". Marines have always done best as a medium range shooting army due to stuff like assault cannons, multi-meltas and rapid fire weapons. Close combat blood angels hasn't been effective since 4th edition when you had No Retreat! Rending on to-hit and Dante providing re-rolls to said rending. There is absolutely 0 need for more charge distance when the best CC unit we get is mostly garbage. Why do I want to assault and get a few token S4-5 attacks when I can shoot with much more effective weapons starting on turn 1.

Ontop of that other armies after Marines get "tactics" that affect their entire army not just Infantry, Bikes and Dreadnoughts. The biggest weakness of Codex: BA. DA and SW is being tethered to the anemic SM book.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 05:10:35


Post by: rollawaythestone


In a vacuum, yes, but coupled with strategems that allow Advancing + Charging, or being able to re-roll Charges with a Strategem anyway....? I think it's still pretty good.

 Kirasu wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
Why is that garbage? On my Tyranids, I pay the points for Adrenal Glands (+1 Charge, +1 Advance) on every single model that can take them. I guarantee that the Blood Angels will get some nice Advance + Charge, or Deepstrike + Charge shenanigans that will synergize nicely with that ability.


Should probably just stop after "On my Tyranids". Marines have always done best as a medium range shooting army due to stuff like assault cannons, multi-meltas and rapid fire weapons. Close combat blood angels hasn't been effective since 4th edition when you had No Retreat! Rending on to-hit and Dante providing re-rolls to said rending. There is absolutely 0 need for more charge distance when the best CC unit we get is mostly garbage. Why do I want to assault and get a few token S4-5 attacks when I can shoot with much more effective weapons starting on turn 1.

Ontop of that other armies after Marines get "tactics" that affect their entire army not just Infantry, Bikes and Dreadnoughts. The biggest weakness of Codex: BA. DA and SW is being tethered to the anemic SM book.


Fair enough.

We'll see what happens, but fight-twice Death Company sound pretty awesome.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 05:19:12


Post by: Kirasu


Yes, it is. If true and not just wish listing. That would be a very powerful ability due to DC mobility, i'm just not confident because we are attached to the incredibly uncreative SM book.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 05:59:50


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 Kirasu wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
Why is that garbage? On my Tyranids, I pay the points for Adrenal Glands (+1 Charge, +1 Advance) on every single model that can take them. I guarantee that the Blood Angels will get some nice Advance + Charge, or Deepstrike + Charge shenanigans that will synergize nicely with that ability.


Should probably just stop after "On my Tyranids". Marines have always done best as a medium range shooting army due to stuff like assault cannons, multi-meltas and rapid fire weapons. Close combat blood angels hasn't been effective since 4th edition when you had No Retreat! Rending on to-hit and Dante providing re-rolls to said rending. There is absolutely 0 need for more charge distance when the best CC unit we get is mostly garbage. Why do I want to assault and get a few token S4-5 attacks when I can shoot with much more effective weapons starting on turn 1.

Ontop of that other armies after Marines get "tactics" that affect their entire army not just Infantry, Bikes and Dreadnoughts. The biggest weakness of Codex: BA. DA and SW is being tethered to the anemic SM book.
This encapsulates exactly what I worry about with my BA. My Tactical Squads are tri-flamer and not going to get much done at range. My Baal Predators are Dakka and just got whacked with a price increase to their main gun. My Assault Squads will never really get much done since they just don't have enough attacks, though if our Special Pistols drop in price, they might be able to offer something (Inferno Pistols right in the enemy's face!). I want to run Terminators since they look cool, but they are too expensive and suffer from the aforementioned crappy close combat. My Stormraven just took a beating on points (I ran ONE!). Dante is just a beatstick that doesn't really do much for the army at large (give him bonus Command Points!).

Ultimately, I want my Blood Angels to offer something my Crimson Fists army doesn't (by choice), and that is close quarters ripping stuff apart. If Death Company get to attack twice each combat, I will definitely run them. I don't think I really want to run a ton of Primaris stuff since my CF army is like 75% Primaris.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 13:18:43


Post by: Tiberius501


Sorry to ask again, but was wandering if there were any pics of the BAngel dice someone could post up?

Also, I'm really hoping for good Sanguinary Guard. I plan on using some anyway, cos they're awesome, but it'd be sweet if they finally became useful


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 13:32:13


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 Tiberius501 wrote:
Sorry to ask again, but was wandering if there were any pics of the BAngel dice someone could post up?

Also, I'm really hoping for good Sanguinary Guard. I plan on using some anyway, cos they're awesome, but it'd be sweet if they finally became useful
No images have surfaced yet.

And agreed on Sanguinary Guard. It is bizarre that the equivalent to Honour Guard really have no business being anywhere near the Chapter Master.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 14:59:02


Post by: Voidwraith


FWIW, the guys at Frontlinegaming, who are tournament minded folks, have seen the codex and say BA players will be happy. I'm unsure how exactly to take that, but I'm overall optimistic.


Blood Angels incoming! @ 2017/11/27 15:16:51


Post by: Slipspace


 Voidwraith wrote:
FWIW, the guys at Frontlinegaming, who are tournament minded folks, have seen the codex and say BA players will be happy. I'm unsure how exactly to take that, but I'm overall optimistic.


Given they were part of the playtesting in the first place and were trying to say BA were actually not that bad a few months back, it doesn't mean much TBH.

I think the BA Codex will be extremely important for GW. One of the key problems with BA is they are hampered by some core 8th edition rules that make close combat very difficult and unrewarding. If GW show they understand these issues and can provide a solid Codex that works as BA should it'll be a great sign for the future of the edition in general.