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Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 13:53:48


Post by: p5freak


Here is the new tactica thread for 8th edition. Let me start with a stratagem. You can use upon wings of fire to remove your JP unit from CC and set it up 9" away from the unit you fought, or whereever you want. In the charge phase you can charge again, because you didnt fallback.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 14:39:08


Post by: Tiberius501


That's actually really awesome, and quite powerful for a big unit of DC.

I'm wandering what our best anti-tank choices are. Would it be best to go with a stormraven, a pair of predators or some Inceptors with the plasma cannon things?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 15:50:35


Post by: Bremon


Likely Predators or Devastators. Stormraven is more points in one basket, Inceptors for anti-tank overcharging is just suicide.

Does Baal Pred seriously not get access to “Killshot”? I have read that and it doesn’t state the Predator keyword in the stratagem if memory serves. Hopefully an FAQ will solve that. Also would love to know why our predator is more expensive. As it stands Baal Preds won’t be common sights.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 16:11:20


Post by: PandatheWarrior


My differents findings,

Sergeant scout can dualwield with 2 inferno pistols.

Assault marine can go 2 plasma/melta.

Gabriel Seth is juicy and cheap

Encarmine axes is way too expensive.

Blood talons seem expensive and useless.






Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 17:20:40


Post by: Bremon


How are Blood talons useless? With red thirst you’re wounding on 2+ in the first round of combat, the -2 AP isn’t that bad compared to a fist. I have 4 BA dreads to build and I’m not sure what the mix will be but I think DC dreads with talons and a grapple can really put the hurt on vehicles. Furioso with fists seem more suited to prolonged assaults, but I really wish Furioso was T8.

Frag cannon seems like the dread weapon that’s been rendered useless thanks to price hike.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 17:32:50


Post by: PandatheWarrior


Vs 3+ the -2 ap hurt alot compared to the fist.Considering their advantage is only to rerolls 1s. And upay extra bucks. I'm completely sure it's not worth it.

Basic math, hits are the same so let's say 4.

4 rolls to wound on 2+ for fist then 6+ save. Around 8,3 w

4 rools to wound on 2+ rerolled then 5+ save. Around 7,9 w

It's only if the fight continues that it start getting better but still.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 17:36:44


Post by: Fifty


I'm tempted by 4 Heavy Flamers in a Devastator Squad. Especially with Malakim Phoros from FW nearby. Or a lieutenant would do, I suppose


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 17:39:50


Post by: mokoshkana


What's the ideal loadout for a 5 man squad of DC with jump packs? I was thinking of two power swords, two power axes, and a thunderhammer. This allows for a nice spread of targets as they could charge more than just infantry and do some effective damage.

Also, is there any real advantage to pistols over bolters? In my experience, nothing stays stuck in combat unless it is a dedicated close combat squad, in which case one squad will probably be dead after two rounds of fighting, so you'll most likely never get to use those pistols while locked in combat.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 18:10:00


Post by: PandatheWarrior


mokoshkana wrote:
What's the ideal loadout for a 5 man squad of DC with jump packs? I was thinking of two power swords, two power axes, and a thunderhammer. This allows for a nice spread of targets as they could charge more than just infantry and do some effective damage.

Also, is there any real advantage to pistols over bolters? In my experience, nothing stays stuck in combat unless it is a dedicated close combat squad, in which case one squad will probably be dead after two rounds of fighting, so you'll most likely never get to use those pistols while locked in combat.


Pretty good, i'm not sure about axes anymore tho, i feel like sword or hammer is the way to go. Also 1 chainsword is nice to eat the overwatch, think about it. For the shooting, boltgun or dedicated pistols are the way to go imho. Or extra chainsword with a power weapon for that 1 normal attack.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 18:41:16


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Bremon wrote:
Likely Predators or Devastators. Stormraven is more points in one basket, Inceptors for anti-tank overcharging is just suicide.

Does Baal Pred seriously not get access to “Killshot”? I have read that and it doesn’t state the Predator keyword in the stratagem if memory serves. Hopefully an FAQ will solve that. Also would love to know why our predator is more expensive. As it stands Baal Preds won’t be common sights.
Baal Predators have the Predator Keyword, correct? They did in the Index. So if they do, they will be able to use Killshot.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 19:06:38


Post by: Spado


mokoshkana wrote:
What's the ideal loadout for a 5 man squad of DC with jump packs? I was thinking of two power swords, two power axes, and a thunderhammer. This allows for a nice spread of targets as they could charge more than just infantry and do some effective damage.

Also, is there any real advantage to pistols over bolters? In my experience, nothing stays stuck in combat unless it is a dedicated close combat squad, in which case one squad will probably be dead after two rounds of fighting, so you'll most likely never get to use those pistols while locked in combat.


I actually use 3 chainswords, 1 power sword and a thunderhammer. 4 attacks on the charge and the red thirst procs seems quite good to force enough wrong saves even though it s AP0


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 19:13:31


Post by: AlexHeap


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Likely Predators or Devastators. Stormraven is more points in one basket, Inceptors for anti-tank overcharging is just suicide.

Does Baal Pred seriously not get access to “Killshot”? I have read that and it doesn’t state the Predator keyword in the stratagem if memory serves. Hopefully an FAQ will solve that. Also would love to know why our predator is more expensive. As it stands Baal Preds won’t be common sights.
Baal Predators have the Predator Keyword, correct? They did in the Index. So if they do, they will be able to use Killshot.


The killshot stratagem calls out the Predator unit name not the PREDATOR keyword so unless it gets FAQ'd Baal Predators can't use it.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 20:04:42


Post by: Martel732


Bremon wrote:
How are Blood talons useless? With red thirst you’re wounding on 2+ in the first round of combat, the -2 AP isn’t that bad compared to a fist. I have 4 BA dreads to build and I’m not sure what the mix will be but I think DC dreads with talons and a grapple can really put the hurt on vehicles. Furioso with fists seem more suited to prolonged assaults, but I really wish Furioso was T8.

Frag cannon seems like the dread weapon that’s been rendered useless thanks to price hike.


Not really. I think its still pretty solid. If not, i'm sure it will be adjusted.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 21:42:18


Post by: Bremon


^I don’t think it was all that solid in the index, it certainly isn’t solid for twice the points.

PandatheWarrior wrote:
Vs 3+ the -2 ap hurt alot compared to the fist.Considering their advantage is only to rerolls 1s. And upay extra bucks. I'm completely sure it's not worth it.

Basic math, hits are the same so let's say 4.

4 rolls to wound on 2+ for fist then 6+ save. Around 8,3 w

4 rools to wound on 2+ rerolled then 5+ save. Around 7,9 w

It's only if the fight continues that it start getting better but still.

Hadn’t done the math; I agree with you. Fists seem superior. Talons only win out in situations where an invulnerable save negates part of the -3AP of the fist.


To stay on the topic of dreads; outside of frag cannon fanboys is there ever a case to made to not spend the 10 points to upgrade a Furioso to DC? Black Rage and twice the consolidation distance seem worth it.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 22:54:47


Post by: Karhedron


I think multiple charges are definitely the vital ingredient of an angels of death list. If one unit charges, the enemy will withdraw and the rest of the army will blow them away. Now let's say you get 4 units into CC and you have just tied up a bit chunk of his army. If he withdraws them all, his firepower in the next turn will be seriously compromised and he will struggle to put them down before they charge again (more Red Thirst bonuses). Put all the charging units on one flank and it will be even harder for their mates on the opposite flank to help.

Why 4 units? Because I think that is the best you can reliably manage on Turn 1. You will need 2 units of DC with Jump Packs, one in Reserve to drop and assault with DoA and one to jump up the Table using Forlorn Fury. Add Lemartes for rerolls. Add a Libby with Quickening and Angels Wing relic in Reserve too and you have character who only needs to roll 6+ for their charge and has a built-in reroll and immunity to Overwatch. Lastly either Mephiston or a Libby Dread with Wings of Sanguinius. Moving 19" or 20" should make it easy for them to make a charge too (Mephy can ride in a pod with some suitable back-up if you wish).

That should come to under 800 points (depending on your exact loadout) but is one heck of a punch. Odds are that at least 3 out of 4 units should make the charge and you have plenty of points left for fire support and a second wave.

If your opponent has not bubble-wrapped, you can drop T1 and start killing stuff. If your opponent has bubble wrapped, that is where your fire support comes in. You need firepower to clear the chaff and create a landing zone for your droppers to come on T2 so they can hit the good stuff. I like mobile firepower so flyers and the newly discounted Inceptors look promising to me but even Tac squads in Razorbacks can probably do a fair job. Thre trick is to put pressure on one part of the enemy's line and then roll him up from there rather than attacking across a broad front.

The important thing is timing. Yes we can assault on T1 but it it is not always going to be most advantageous to do so. Blood Angels are definitely looking like a finesse army to me so picking the right moment and place to strike will be vital.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/09 23:46:45


Post by: PandatheWarrior


 Karhedron wrote:
I think multiple charges are definitely the vital ingredient of an angels of death list. If one unit charges, the enemy will withdraw and the rest of the army will blow them away. Now let's say you get 4 units into CC and you have just tied up a bit chunk of his army. If he withdraws them all, his firepower in the next turn will be seriously compromised and he will struggle to put them down before they charge again (more Red Thirst bonuses). Put all the charging units on one flank and it will be even harder for their mates on the opposite flank to help.

Why 4 units? Because I think that is the best you can reliably manage on Turn 1. You will need 2 units of DC with Jump Packs, one in Reserve to drop and assault with DoA and one to jump up the Table using Forlorn Fury. Add Lemartes for rerolls. Add a Libby with Quickening and Angels Wing relic in Reserve too and you have character who only needs to roll 6+ for their charge and has a built-in reroll and immunity to Overwatch. Lastly either Mephiston or a Libby Dread with Wings of Sanguinius. Moving 19" or 20" should make it easy for them to make a charge too (Mephy can ride in a pod with some suitable back-up if you wish).

That should come to under 800 points (depending on your exact loadout) but is one heck of a punch. Odds are that at least 3 out of 4 units should make the charge and you have plenty of points left for fire support and a second wave.

If your opponent has not bubble-wrapped, you can drop T1 and start killing stuff. If your opponent has bubble wrapped, that is where your fire support comes in. You need firepower to clear the chaff and create a landing zone for your droppers to come on T2 so they can hit the good stuff. I like mobile firepower so flyers and the newly discounted Inceptors look promising to me but even Tac squads in Razorbacks can probably do a fair job. Thre trick is to put pressure on one part of the enemy's line and then roll him up from there rather than attacking across a broad front.

The important thing is timing. Yes we can assault on T1 but it it is not always going to be most advantageous to do so. Blood Angels are definitely looking like a finesse army to me so picking the right moment and place to strike will be vital.


Definitely a step in the right way. I'm however tempted by a captain instead of libby for the angels wings. You get invu, DC cp and access to dmg 4 TH wich is nothing to sniff at.

Now, the good thing we have to ask ourselves is what we bring on the side, and i think razor tac is probably not the answer.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 00:15:52


Post by: Arachnofiend


If you use heavy bolter devastators instead of razorbacks you can pretty easily make an entire army of infantry. Make the enemy's anti-tank a total waste.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 01:21:10


Post by: Fifty


Is anyone else affected by the rather frustrating rule that successor chapters only get to take one utterly useless relic? And that they can't take the Sanguinor or Astorath despite the fact their fluff has them operating with all successor chapters?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 01:30:18


Post by: NH Gunsmith


 Fifty wrote:
Is anyone else affected by the rather frustrating rule that successor chapters only get to take one utterly useless relic? And that they can't take the Sanguinor or Astorath despite the fact their fluff has them operating with all successor chapters?


Yeah. I am pretty angry about that, oh well. I have stripped the guys I painted in Knights of Blood colors to repaint then all as Blood Angels. At least I have access to Mephiston now. I learned in today's game that he is a savage monster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I noticed is that unless you skew your list to straight close combat, we cannot neglect our ranged options. Missile Devs and Twin Las Dreads carried the team by knocking out the heavy threats, and allowed the Vanguard Vets to charge into the meat of the enemy.

I expect my assault elements to die a horrid death, so my Vanguard Vets are kept as cheap as possible. It worked out, they made their points back before being blasted to oblivion by a Tau army. However, they kept fire off the rest of my army as they pushed forwards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote:
Here is the new tactica thread for 8th edition. Let me start with a stratagem. You can use upon wings of fire to remove your JP unit from CC and set it up 9" away from the unit you fought, or whereever you want. In the charge phase you can charge again, because you didnt fallback.


And the best part is you can use the 3D6 charge range Strategem (again) since they were set up. It becomes very good if your bouncing around a single Jump Pack unit to maximize their use.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 05:00:20


Post by: Puganaut


Do successor chapters get specifically different chapter tactics, or any discernible benefit?

If not, just run them as regular blood angels. If you want to paint your mephiston with some more silver, I know I won't crucify you, neither will the vast majority of my gaming group. Balance and gameplay wise, if it's a blood angels list painted as successors, that's the same as a blood angels list.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 05:12:49


Post by: Bremon


Exactly. Unless you’re taking Seth, there’s no reason to not play “alternate paint job BA”.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 06:06:17


Post by: NH Gunsmith


 Puganaut wrote:
Do successor chapters get specifically different chapter tactics, or any discernible benefit?

If not, just run them as regular blood angels. If you want to paint your mephiston with some more silver, I know I won't crucify you, neither will the vast majority of my gaming group. Balance and gameplay wise, if it's a blood angels list painted as successors, that's the same as a blood angels list.


Yeah, just wasn't worth it to me. I know that my local group wouldn't care, just didn't want the hassle when it comes to local tournaments. Better off just going proper Blood Angels.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 06:54:31


Post by: bobafett012


To get as many CP as I can for use with my assault elements, I'm thinking of running either 3 5 man intercessor squads with the stalker bolt guns, or a mixture of them and scouts. Maybe 2 squads of intercessors and 1 squad of scouts with camo cloaks and sniper rifles.

For anti tank, it's either got to be 3 storm talons, or 3 preds, either AC/LC or tri-las. not sure yet. Actually 3 Xiphons would really be the best option with 2 twin las cannons and the missiles. They can take down just about any vehicle in 1 turn with 12 las cannon shots.

My thoughts on axes vs swords. I'm thinking swords if you got a priest nearby, axes if you don't, that way your always wounding T4 on 2's, and don't go hog wild. i'm thinking a TH and a couple power weapons for each squad should be sufficient. Weight of attacks, wounding on 3+ alone should do the trick most of the time in a 10 man squad of DC.


Also, I %100 agree with Karhedron. For BA assault forces to be successful, we need to be getting into CC with 3-5 units in a turn. This is easily doable with some of our new psychic powers and strategems, but requires a decent amount of CPs, so maybe starting with a battalion is the way to go. get 3 cheap troops to hold backfield objectives and the rest assault forces and anti vehicle forces.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 07:08:41


Post by: tpogs


 Arachnofiend wrote:
If you use heavy bolter devastators instead of razorbacks you can pretty easily make an entire army of infantry. Make the enemy's anti-tank a total waste.


I think that's is exactly how to run BA.

30 DC. 3 or more groups of AM with double plasma. 3 Scout squads. And 3 Dev's with 2 lascannons each.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 07:13:58


Post by: diepotato47


I'm thinking of starting with a Battalion myself, having a a Terminator Captain and a Primaris Lieutenant, with two five man Intercessor Squads and a ten man Tactical Squad. From there add a Sanguinary Priest and ALL of the Elites choices I can get through a Vanguard. Captain would deepstrike with the Elites (Terminators, Sang Guard, Death Company) while the Lieutenant leads the Intercessors, and the Priest runs with the Tacticals.

What are people's thoughts on Reivers and Inceptors? Ideally I'd eventually like to run both, dropping them near each other, probably with the Captain.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 07:30:08


Post by: p5freak


bobafett012 wrote:

For anti tank, it's either got to be 3 storm talons, or 3 preds, either AC/LC or tri-las. not sure yet. Actually 3 Xiphons would really be the best option with 2 twin las cannons and the missiles. They can take down just about any vehicle in 1 turn with 12 las cannon shots.


Keep in mind that flyers cant hold objectives anymore in matched play. Makes it easier for your opponent to table you. I dont think preds are a good idea, they are more expensive than a AC/LC razorback. They are good with killshot but you need 3 of them, and killshot is 1 CP. We need our CPs to get into CC.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 07:54:51


Post by: Red__Thirst


Got my codex, and was able to play a game with it this afternoon for my local escalation league before I started work at the FLGS (I work there part-time).

750 point match vs. Salmanders.

Some notes:

Death Company dropped in with Lemartes and used the Descent of Angels strategem to charge in on a Razorback. Lost one of the 6 man squad to overwatch fire (Twin assault cannon) but the remaining 5 made it in unscathed along with Lemartes as well. They proceeded to evaporate the Razorback before Lemartes even swung. It was impressive. They consolidated into a nearby whirlwind and Lemartes split off and consolidated into the 6 man tactical squad that came out of the razorback, tying them both up and forcing retreats which helped take some guns out of the fight on his turn.

The Death Company died in the following turn, (though Lemartes Lived) soaking all the fire from his list and allowing more models to move up and keep chewing through his armor. He had a very tank heavy list, so it was a case of cracking hard candy shells to get to the gooey insides.

I managed a narrow victory on the Courier mission from the open war deck, killing the sergeant model he was using as his Courier before he could kill mine. It was a fairly short game, only going to the top of turn four before I finally felled the model I needed to in order to claim victory. Lots of good stuff in this codex. I'm REALLY looking forward to more list building and trying out different tactics with the different strategies. Gotta paint up more Death Company soon.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 09:16:42


Post by: wuestenfux


 tpogs wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
If you use heavy bolter devastators instead of razorbacks you can pretty easily make an entire army of infantry. Make the enemy's anti-tank a total waste.


I think that's is exactly how to run BA.

30 DC. 3 or more groups of AM with double plasma. 3 Scout squads. And 3 Dev's with 2 lascannons each.

This could be a way to go rendering the enemy anti-tank weapons useless.
But I won't run AM units.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 09:30:13


Post by: bobafett012


p5freak wrote:
bobafett012 wrote:

For anti tank, it's either got to be 3 storm talons, or 3 preds, either AC/LC or tri-las. not sure yet. Actually 3 Xiphons would really be the best option with 2 twin las cannons and the missiles. They can take down just about any vehicle in 1 turn with 12 las cannon shots.


Keep in mind that flyers cant hold objectives anymore in matched play. Makes it easier for your opponent to table you. I dont think preds are a good idea, they are more expensive than a AC/LC razorback. They are good with killshot but you need 3 of them, and killshot is 1 CP. We need our CPs to get into CC.


I'm not concerned about flyers not scoring, i'm just debating which will be better in my army. I'm not really interested in razorbacks, because they do not get me any more CPs, 3 preds, or 3 flyers would get me an extra CP and more firepower.

The preds have have a ton more anti vehicle/monster power, which is probably what my build needs the most, but they aren't quite as mobile as the flyers and they still have pretty respectable firepower. I already own the 3 preds, so that's likely what i'll try out first, see how that feels.


EDIT: why are predators 102 points in the BA dex and 90 in the SM codex? that a typo? I thought everything was supposed to be normalized now?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 09:33:07


Post by: rhavien


 wuestenfux wrote:

This could be a way to go rendering the enemy anti-tank weapons useless.
But I won't run AM units.


I guess he means assault marines rather than astra militarum.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 09:53:58


Post by: Boogles


 wuestenfux wrote:
 tpogs wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
If you use heavy bolter devastators instead of razorbacks you can pretty easily make an entire army of infantry. Make the enemy's anti-tank a total waste.


I think that's is exactly how to run BA.

30 DC. 3 or more groups of AM with double plasma. 3 Scout squads. And 3 Dev's with 2 lascannons each.

This could be a way to go rendering the enemy anti-tank weapons useless.
But I won't run AM units.


I mean if you don't like assault marines, you can always run vets or more DC. But I think AM still have a place with 5 man double melta units.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 12:11:15


Post by: Tiberius501


My main issue is that, now that the Primaris have been released, all our cool unique units who are good look really silly in comparison. Their proportions and stuff look silly now and I can't unsee it. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone else, but I'm struggling to put anything that isn't Primaris into my army. Maybe Terminators and converted Sanguinary Guard, but DC aren't the rage filled monsters I'd like them to look like on the tabletop which spoils it for me unfortunately. So all tactics are sort of chucked outt he window for me, as I'm left with nothing but Primaris, termies and Sanguinary Guard haha.

Maybe that can work? It's just a shame none of the Primaris units have the option to take jump packs or cheap transports, rendering them pretty slow. Intercessors with auto bolters can advance and shoot, which is pretty cool, but that's not the speed of a razerback with a 5 man tac squad and while inceptors can drop down on jump packs, they won't put as much work in as a unit of death company who charge in and wreck someone's day.

So I've been trying to work out a way to feel good about having the old models or ways to convert them but I never end up happy with it.

#CoolStoryBro


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 12:22:03


Post by: p5freak


Did you guys realize that company veterans can use two inferno pistols ? Thats a nasty surprise for any charging large tyranids, large daemons, etc. They hide in a rhino or razorback until the enemy units are in CC, then pop out and melt them.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 12:30:08


Post by: casvalremdeikun


p5freak wrote:
Did you guys realize that company veterans can use two inferno pistols ? Thats a nasty surprise for any charging large tyranids, large daemons, etc. They hide in a rhino or razorback until the enemy units are in CC, then pop out and melt them.
And they can still pistol whip the gak out of anything charging them at 5 Str.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 12:37:14


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 Tiberius501 wrote:
My main issue is that, now that the Primaris have been released, all our cool unique units who are good look really silly in comparison. Their proportions and stuff look silly now and I can't unsee it. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone else, but I'm struggling to put anything that isn't Primaris into my army. Maybe Terminators and converted Sanguinary Guard, but DC aren't the rage filled monsters I'd like them to look like on the tabletop which spoils it for me unfortunately. So all tactics are sort of chucked outt he window for me, as I'm left with nothing but Primaris, termies and Sanguinary Guard haha.

Maybe that can work? It's just a shame none of the Primaris units have the option to take jump packs or cheap transports, rendering them pretty slow. Intercessors with auto bolters can advance and shoot, which is pretty cool, but that's not the speed of a razerback with a 5 man tac squad and while inceptors can drop down on jump packs, they won't put as much work in as a unit of death company who charge in and wreck someone's day.

So I've been trying to work out a way to feel good about having the old models or ways to convert them but I never end up happy with it.

#CoolStoryBro


Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 13:07:23


Post by: Tiberius501


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
My main issue is that, now that the Primaris have been released, all our cool unique units who are good look really silly in comparison. Their proportions and stuff look silly now and I can't unsee it. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone else, but I'm struggling to put anything that isn't Primaris into my army. Maybe Terminators and converted Sanguinary Guard, but DC aren't the rage filled monsters I'd like them to look like on the tabletop which spoils it for me unfortunately. So all tactics are sort of chucked outt he window for me, as I'm left with nothing but Primaris, termies and Sanguinary Guard haha.

Maybe that can work? It's just a shame none of the Primaris units have the option to take jump packs or cheap transports, rendering them pretty slow. Intercessors with auto bolters can advance and shoot, which is pretty cool, but that's not the speed of a razerback with a 5 man tac squad and while inceptors can drop down on jump packs, they won't put as much work in as a unit of death company who charge in and wreck someone's day.

So I've been trying to work out a way to feel good about having the old models or ways to convert them but I never end up happy with it.

#CoolStoryBro


Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.


Yeah that's true. And having a Primaris Chaplain around can do wonders as well. Maybe I'll embrace it as well and just go a pure Primaris army


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 17:20:32


Post by: wuestenfux


Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.

This is actually bad news for GW and BA. The new codex seems to be very poor.
I'll get my codex next Saturday.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 17:50:41


Post by: Voidwraith


 AlexHeap wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Likely Predators or Devastators. Stormraven is more points in one basket, Inceptors for anti-tank overcharging is just suicide.

Does Baal Pred seriously not get access to “Killshot”? I have read that and it doesn’t state the Predator keyword in the stratagem if memory serves. Hopefully an FAQ will solve that. Also would love to know why our predator is more expensive. As it stands Baal Preds won’t be common sights.
Baal Predators have the Predator Keyword, correct? They did in the Index. So if they do, they will be able to use Killshot.


The killshot stratagem calls out the Predator unit name not the PREDATOR keyword so unless it gets FAQ'd Baal Predators can't use it.


Sure, you could go that way, or, because Baal Predators ARE also predators, you could allow them to use Killshot until it's FAQ'd to say otherwise. Either or...


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 18:14:24


Post by: bobafett012


 wuestenfux wrote:
Nah I know what you mean. I've just embraced it and am doing Primaris focussed BA. The 2A statline with the chapter tactic, feel-no-pain banner and powersword lieutenants really works well with Primaris anyway.
The new codex seems to be very poor.
I'll get my codex next Saturday.


I think it's brilliant and at least the best BA dex in a few editions. I liked the WD codex and the 5th edition dex as well, although it was a much better razor spam than JP marines book. I guess if you just wanted red marines that shoot your going to be disappointed.


Anyone know if our predator being 102 points is wrong in the dex. I have the dex but I thought predators game down to 90 in all books with the chapter approved or do we get shafted with a 12 point more expensive predator?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 18:38:07


Post by: p5freak


Predators were 102 in the index imperium 1, went down to 90 in the SM codex (not CA), and now they are 102 again in our codex. Its gotta be wrong, probably copy and paste error, someone used the index, not the codex.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/10 20:34:08


Post by: Xirax


Had my first game with the new codex. Played a 1250 match against death guard. We played a mission from open war deck. No no man's land between deployment zones, two objectives. Result was a tie. I had a 10man DC squad, libby dread, lemmy, SR, DC dread, 2x scouts and 1 plasma tac squad. Libby dread was my warlord with the +1 dam weapon upgrade.

Some thoughts:

DC hit hard, but die really really easily. Compared to DG T5 & disgustingly resilient rule. Libby dread with wings, quickening and red rampage stratagem was a pure beast. I deployed my DC T1 and wished for 1st turn, but enemy got it. Got assaulted by 7man melee plague marines, biologus putrifier and foul blightspawn. Was left 3man up after the charge. Then my libby dread game flying in and did some multi-charging. 7 attacks s10 ap-4 D4 ws 2+ was nasty. Almost killed a nurgle daemon prince the following turn, but it had some game winning dice rolling. In the fifth and last game turn I had a go at the weakened prince with my DC dread equipped with blood talons, got 4 hits through 3dam each) and it had 4 wounds left. So 12 dam incoming! Victory for me.. But first it's relic armour killed my dc dread and it took all the remaining 9 wounds were negated by 4+ disgustingly resilient rolls... If I'd kill his warlord I would have won both objectives.

One "fun fact" from the game.. I shot all my guns from my SR for two turns at a same 5man plague marines squad. Missiles were shot at a foetid bloat-drone, but 32 bolter shots, 12 twin assault cannon shots and 6 twin heavy bolter shots. It's 100 shots at 5man 3+ sv T5 5+ disgustingly resilient unit.. I killed TWO! With 100 shots... Enough banter.. T5 is crazy. So don't shoot at DG armies, they need to be assaulted.

Sniper scouts, unchanged from the index are still meh.. I never seem to get those sixes.

Plasma tac squad (5man, combi®ular) killed more from the plague marine squad than sniper scouts, bolter scouts, SR in two turns..

Lemmy was also a beast in melee, killing a chaos lord in the charge.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 02:42:25


Post by: casvalremdeikun


What are people's thoughts regarding replacing my Stormraven with a Repulsor tank? I need some potent long-range shooting, and I don't really think the Stormraven is able to provide it as well. I was going to give the Repulsor the Twin Lascannons, Las-talon, Onslaught Gatling, and basically all the other regular small arms it comes with. It just seems like it is able to get 5he job done better now. Honestly, I am thinking of making room for two of them. Each would have an Intercessor Squad and a Lieutenant inside.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 03:09:30


Post by: Martel732


How long is long range? Raven can take 6 48"+ shots. The point hike does hurt a bit, admittedly.

You can't put primaris in a Stormraven.

For a Repulsor, I'd consider loading it up aggressors.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 03:15:38


Post by: Tiberius501


What’s the optimal way of running some Reivers? A blob of 10 or 2 groups of 5? The grappling hooks or the grav-shoots?

Also is a repulsor filled with Aggressors better than a redemptor dreadnaught and a unit of inceptors? I only really have the points for one or the other or whatever is the better mix


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 03:19:43


Post by: Martel732


 Tiberius501 wrote:
What’s the optimal way of running some Reivers? A blob of 10 or 2 groups of 5? The grappling hooks or the grav-shoots?

Also is a repulsor filled with Aggressors better than a redemptor dreadnaught and a unit of inceptors? I only really have the points for one or the other or whatever is the better mix


It all depends. A blob of 10 reivers gives up a "destroy enemy unit" maelstrom objective much less easily than a 5 man unit. But two 5 man units can be more than one place at a time. Myself, I vastly prefer the hooks to the chutes, as we have other units that can deep strike in the middle of the board and the ability to ignore vertical movement is actually EXTREMELY useful in my experience.

Repulsor w/aggressors is a very anti-chaff unit. Redemptor and inceptors can pack a ton of plasma or also go anti-chaff. I'm not really sure which is better.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 08:04:37


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

5W 3+5+++ is pretty good, but we do have access to Company Veterans that can intercept wounds. Would it be worth kitting out 3-4 of these with some Stormbolters and perhaps a Storm Shield or 2?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 08:39:54


Post by: wuestenfux


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

5W 3+5+++ is pretty good, but we do have access to Company Veterans that can intercept wounds. Would it be worth kitting out 3-4 of these with some Stormbolters and perhaps a Storm Shield or 2?

Players tend to use overcharged plasma only if a reroll of 1's is available, say from a Captain close enough.
So 2D weapons are not that common these days. But its a good point to give the relic to a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters.
I think there is no further protection necessary for the relic bearer. Otherwise it will become a point sink. Points that could be spent better elsewhere.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 08:49:02


Post by: Puganaut


DA codex pretty much confirms the Lion's return:

"Buried deep inside the last bedrock of Old Caliban... Lion El'Johnson slumbers".

Has anyone found anything for Sanguinius?



Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 08:53:27


Post by: Tiberius501


 Puganaut wrote:
DA codex pretty much confirms the Lion's return:

"Buried deep inside the last bedrock of Old Caliban... Lion El'Johnson slumbers".

Has anyone found anything for Sanguinius?



Yeah our codex says Sanguinius is dead. I can’t remember where it is, I think under the history part of the fluff. Mentions Sanguinius being killed by the Warmaster himself


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
What’s the optimal way of running some Reivers? A blob of 10 or 2 groups of 5? The grappling hooks or the grav-shoots?

Also is a repulsor filled with Aggressors better than a redemptor dreadnaught and a unit of inceptors? I only really have the points for one or the other or whatever is the better mix


It all depends. A blob of 10 reivers gives up a "destroy enemy unit" maelstrom objective much less easily than a 5 man unit. But two 5 man units can be more than one place at a time. Myself, I vastly prefer the hooks to the chutes, as we have other units that can deep strike in the middle of the board and the ability to ignore vertical movement is actually EXTREMELY useful in my experience.

Repulsor w/aggressors is a very anti-chaff unit. Redemptor and inceptors can pack a ton of plasma or also go anti-chaff. I'm not really sure which is better.


Well I went with a unit of 5 Aggressors in a repulsor and 2 units of 3 inceptors with plasma

EDIT: and a unit of 7 Reivers. Replaced my hellblasters with the Inceptors


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 09:12:25


Post by: Red__Thirst


Managed a second game of 40k at 750 points to finish off the escalation league 750 point phase I'm participating in this evening. Went up against a Deathwatch army.

We were both running Vanguard detachments.

Got the center of the table and 4 corners deployment, with the hold your own and your opponent's objective (one of each, one in each deployment zone) by the end of your opponent's turn to win the game, and our twist was Restoratives for D3 wounds restored to a unit at the beginning of each turn.

I was placed in the center of the map, with my opponent deploying on 3 of the 4 sides around me. My opponent also managed to finish deploying before me, and won the roll off to go first. I, however, by the glory of Sanguinius, seized the initiative! My opponent was, in a word, un-amused.

I had held 3 of my jump pack units in reserve to bring in on my first turn from on-high; my Captain, a 6 man Death Company squad, and a Company Champion.

The Captain landed 9" away from a 3 man squad of Aggressors, with an adjacent primaris apothecary, and a Watch Master. My Captain had a hand flamer, a relic blade, and the Angel's Wing jump pack, along with the Artisan of War warlord trait. He made his charge (no re-roll needed crazily enough) and cut down the apothecary and 2 of the 3 aggressors in one round of combat.

The Death Company landed near his Killteam (troops) on the objective, and I used the Descent of Angels strategem to ensure they made it in. Thankfully I rolled well and only lost one model on the charge to a lucky frag cannon solid shell hit. 5 DC made it in, and killed all but 2 of his 6 man killteam.

Lastly, my Company Champion arrived and managed to make the charge on his Librarian standing next to the Killteam that my Death Company charged in on. I only managed to inflict one 2 damage wound on him but that took him to half wounds.

Overall it was a brutal first turn, and was a lot of fun. My opponent did a great job countering my initial alpha strike (that was very lucky I freely admit, making all 3 charges, one of which was on 3D6 granted) but I was able to take advantage of the damage I did early, and by the end of turn 3 I had the objective firmy in hand with my Company Champion and won the game at the bottom of turn 4.

I'm really liking this new codex. Lots of fun, and good abilities and wargear/relics and warlord traits to really make the army work and have excellent synergy.

We just escalated up to 1000 points in the league, so more list building is about to commence.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 09:38:47


Post by: diepotato47


Has anybody tried Intercessors yet? I'm thinking they's be best used to run around and grab objectives. Two five man teams with auto bolters Sergeant with chainsword, so they can advance and fire, or charge if they have to, since they're not rubbish in combat.

Two of those plus by Tactical Squad sets me up pretty well for a Battalion Detachment, so from then I can start filling out a Vanguard Force.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 09:43:16


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 wuestenfux wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

5W 3+5+++ is pretty good, but we do have access to Company Veterans that can intercept wounds. Would it be worth kitting out 3-4 of these with some Stormbolters and perhaps a Storm Shield or 2?

Players tend to use overcharged plasma only if a reroll of 1's is available, say from a Captain close enough.
So 2D weapons are not that common these days. But its a good point to give the relic to a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters.
I think there is no further protection necessary for the relic bearer. Otherwise it will become a point sink. Points that could be spent better elsewhere.


True.

I find it interesting the Terminator Ancient is pretty much straight up a better pick over the Terminator Chaplain.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 09:45:51


Post by: Tiberius501


diepotato47 wrote:
Has anybody tried Intercessors yet? I'm thinking they's be best used to run around and grab objectives. Two five man teams with auto bolters Sergeant with chainsword, so they can advance and fire, or charge if they have to, since they're not rubbish in combat.

Two of those plus by Tactical Squad sets me up pretty well for a Battalion Detachment, so from then I can start filling out a Vanguard Force.


I’m interested in auto bolter Intercessors too. They seem pretty good as they can advance all over the place if need be but still shoot at stuff and not be useless, even without transports


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 09:58:40


Post by: Astmeister


It is a bit weird that the Librarian Dreadnought only has Move 6 instead of 8 from the Furioso/DC. Is this a typo?
Also the 3A of the Lib Dread seem to be not really amazing. Is it really worth it to fly him into enemies? Unless you can also cast quickening on him, he seems to not be so killy.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:05:51


Post by: wuestenfux


Hmm, the discussion here goes into the direction of building a BA army around Primaris.
So it seems that something went wrong with the new codex.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:06:22


Post by: Tiberius501


 Astmeister wrote:
It is a bit weird that the Librarian Dreadnought only has Move 6 instead of 8 from the Furioso/DC. Is this a typo?
Also the 3A of the Lib Dread seem to be not really amazing. Is it really worth it to fly him into enemies? Unless you can also cast quickening on him, he seems to not be so killy.


Cast quickening and he’s nuts. Spend the cp for a further d3 attacks. Have another librarian give him another attack and the Sanguinor nearby. That’s 3+2d3+2 attacks. Admittedly that’s a lot of points and effort going towards one dude, but anything on the other side is well dead


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:12:27


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 Astmeister wrote:
It is a bit weird that the Librarian Dreadnought only has Move 6 instead of 8 from the Furioso/DC. Is this a typo?
Also the 3A of the Lib Dread seem to be not really amazing. Is it really worth it to fly him into enemies? Unless you can also cast quickening on him, he seems to not be so killy.


I imagine to the extent it matters, you would always Red Rage him as well as a possible reroll 1's to hit.

WS 2+, 3 + 2D3 attacks rerolling ones starts to stack up. Dude can one-round Guilliman pretty handily.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:13:15


Post by: p5freak


Lib dread has 6" move, no typo. It hits on 2+ in CC, the DC dread hits on 3+, but can reroll failed hit rolls, because of double fists. Lib dread cant reroll. So both will probably hit 3 times in CC.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:14:25


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 wuestenfux wrote:
Hmm, the discussion here goes into the direction of building a BA army around Primaris.
So it seems that something went wrong with the new codex.


Wrong?

Pretty sure adding all the new stuff to the codex was so that people could use it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote:
Lib dread has 6" move, no typo. It hits on 2+ in CC, the DC dread hits on 3+, but can reroll failed hit rolls, because of double fists. Lib dread cant reroll. So both will probably hit 3 times in CC.


If my Libby Dread is charging something important like a Warlord, you can bet I'm blowing 1 CP to give him rerolling ones.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:20:32


Post by: p5freak


You cant spend 1 CP to reroll 1s. You can spend 1 CP to give him additional D3 attacks.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:26:13


Post by: wuestenfux


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Hmm, the discussion here goes into the direction of building a BA army around Primaris.
So it seems that something went wrong with the new codex.


Wrong?

Pretty sure adding all the new stuff to the codex was so that people could use it?

Well, I think the signature units of the BA codex, including special characters, DC, and Baal Predator, should have been designed by GW such that BA players are eager to use them. Nobody seems to be too enthusiastic about them. Sorry for my comments. Just wondering. I'll pick my codex up next Saturday.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:35:04


Post by: Tiberius501


 wuestenfux wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Hmm, the discussion here goes into the direction of building a BA army around Primaris.
So it seems that something went wrong with the new codex.


Wrong?

Pretty sure adding all the new stuff to the codex was so that people could use it?

Well, I think the signature units of the BA codex, including special characters, DC, and Baal Predator, should have been designed by GW such that BA players are eager to use them. Nobody seems to be too enthusiastic about them. Sorry for my comments. Just wondering. I'll pick my codex up next Saturday.


If you scroll back through the thread and previous threads you’ll see a lot of people are pretty happy with DC and will be using them a lot. Same as Sanguinary Guard now and a few of the names characters. I think most of what we have has been said to be pretty good, except for maybe Baal Predators which is unfortunate. Otherwise Primaris have only really been mentioned a couple of times and I’m just glad they’re also useful to us


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:37:45


Post by: p5freak


Some BA stuff is still useless, like blood talons and baal preds. Blood talons arent as bad as they used to be, but still inferior to fists, and more expensive. The baal pred is 144 pts. with TAC, a razorback with TAC is 114 pts. has one wound less, but can carry 6 models. Baal pred can race up to 24" down the battlefield with the lucifer engine stratagem, but cant shoot because it advanced and only has heavy weapons. It should be able to fire all its flame weapons for the 30 additional pts.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 10:45:55


Post by: Astmeister


Libby Dread:
I just realized that he is a character with less than 10 wounds, so he can hide behind units. This itself is huge. So carry on... he is amazing!


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 11:05:36


Post by: Scallywag


 wuestenfux wrote:
Hmm, the discussion here goes into the direction of building a BA army around Primaris.
So it seems that something went wrong with the new codex.


Most Primaris units are still not that great. The only Primaris unit I would cosinder using in a competitive Blood Angels list are Inceptors.

Some of the named characters are really powerful and Death Company is probably the best unit in the codex. Librarian Dreadnoughts and Sanguinary Guard are also good. Only Baal Predators and the other Dreadnoughts kind of suck.

The codex is great in my opinion.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 11:11:27


Post by: wuestenfux


 Astmeister wrote:
Libby Dread:
I just realized that he is a character with less than 10 wounds, so he can hide behind units. This itself is huge. So carry on... he is amazing!

Indeed, this makes him hard to destroy when he's not the closest target.
Sniper rifles against vehicles are not very effective.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 11:22:52


Post by: Tiberius501


If you had to choose, would you choose the primaris ancient with the banner of 5+ feel no pain, or a librarian? I was considering taking a unit of 4 Aggressors and a primaris librarian in a repulsor and then they get out, shoot everything then charge with 3 powerfist attacks each (4 for sergeant) from the librarian and then d3 extra for himself. Alternatively I could have a cool banner dude going with whoever needs 5+ feel no pain. I sort of need everything else in my list


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 16:53:44


Post by: Xirax


Some notes on the codex:

Scout sergeants can't take items from the sergeant weapons list, so atleast I need to redo my storm bolters as boltguns.

Company champion's is lacking a combat shield from it's wargear, although in the dataslate it has 5+ inv save..

Non-tactical question I would hope someone to comment. If I'm planning on using regularly a captain with visions of sanguinius, would you paint your captain as red or black, like Tycho the lost? I'm going to give him the thunder hammer and an inferno pistol with jump pack. Planning on using a sanguinary guard torso and legs with the groin cloth and a non-helmet head. 2nd option would be to use a DC chap model, just kitbash the crozius to hammer.. not sure if the skull head can be replaced..


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 17:14:17


Post by: Insectum7


Out of curiosity, can anyone confirm that Death Company are not immune to morale?

I played against BA last night, he had just picked up the codex, and both of us were shocked when he lost units to morale. We couldn't find anything to help them out on that front.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 17:27:15


Post by: Martel732


Yeah, he's called Astorath. Makes them immune to morale. Astorath also lets any BA unit within 6" reroll misses in CC. Much better than Lemartes. Oh, and he has 2+ armor.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 17:29:32


Post by: Xirax


Astorath grants 6" autopass to morale. SG ancient with banner for example gives +1 and like all SM everything gets to reroll failed morale tests. You can give any of your warlords the heroic bearing WT which grants also the above autopass. Although Astorath gets another fixed WT with also the morale autopass, so his like double WT dude. Althought I think Lemmy is still bettee, but why not take both and two blobs of DC, like I'm planning.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 17:32:46


Post by: Martel732


I don't think there's much of a case for Lemartes being better than Astorath. Especially with the movement stratagem.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:02:54


Post by: Insectum7


Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, he's called Astorath. Makes them immune to morale. Astorath also lets any BA unit within 6" reroll misses in CC. Much better than Lemartes. Oh, and he has 2+ armor.


Yeah, Astorath was on the table and placement made one Death Co group immune. The others ran away after heavy casualties :( SAD.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:07:21


Post by: Martel732


Moral of the story: only use one DC squad that's bigger than 5. And use Astorath with the big squad.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:08:27


Post by: Xirax


It's units, not models. So you only need one model to be within the 6" radius OR you mean't the other DC units..


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:11:55


Post by: the_scotsman


Martel732 wrote:
I don't think there's much of a case for Lemartes being better than Astorath. Especially with the movement stratagem.


With the stratagems Astorath+big blob is probably better than Lem+MSU.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:11:59


Post by: Martel732


Yeah the other DC units. It's easy to keep a 15 man unit with 6" of Astorath. The other units, you probably want else where, so they need to be small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I don't think there's much of a case for Lemartes being better than Astorath. Especially with the movement stratagem.


With the stratagems Astorath+big blob is probably better than Lem+MSU.


Forlorn fury alone wrecks a lot of face. There's no reason to get fancy. Get 15 dudes immune to morale. Get 12+D6 free movement. Profit.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:24:17


Post by: bobafett012


 wuestenfux wrote:

Well, I think the signature units of the BA codex, including special characters, DC, and Baal Predator, should have been designed by GW such that BA players are eager to use them. Nobody seems to be too enthusiastic about them. Sorry for my comments. Just wondering. I'll pick my codex up next Saturday.


I was absolutely blown away when I read our characters for the first time and DC and Sanguinary guard are amazing. Both of which are incredible CC units, albeit, for killing different things which is great because I don't feel bad taking both in a list.

The primaris are wholly underwhelming to me, and in most cases over costed by a fair margin. I'm coming around on the intercessors for BA though, as they are fairly cheap (after CA changes), good objective campers with 2 wounds and good range with the stalker bolt rifle and 2 attacks if they get charged. The rest of them i'm not sold on, certainly not for BA. I would love to like inceptors but 3 models for 135 points is just not something I have been able to talk myself into, even after they have came down like 40% in points. I'm still salty that they started at 225 points for 3 models.....ridiculous.

I think we have what amounts to an incredible alpha and beta strike army and i'm super pleased with the rules and the book. It'll probably turn out not to be as good as i'm thinking, but wither way, a huge step in the right direction imo.

Martel732 wrote:
Moral of the story: only use one DC squad that's bigger than 5. And use Astorath with the big squad.


I lthink i'm going to go 2 10 man squads with Lemartes. He allows them to use his LD 9 for morale tests, has the re-rolls to hit, but more importantly, I don't have to waste 2 CPs on forlorn fury, because of the re-rolls to charge, and I can instead use them on another DS squad of Sang guard, and still have plenty left for upon wings of fire, and decent of angels in later turns.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:27:32


Post by: Martel732


Sanguinary guard are pretty brutal when combined with the relic banner. Cast shield of sanguiniuis on them for extra lulz, although most of the time, that's not useful.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 18:44:54


Post by: Voidwraith


Martel732 wrote:
Sanguinary guard are pretty brutal when combined with the relic banner. Cast shield of sanguiniuis on them for extra lulz, although most of the time, that's not useful.


I like this and am doing my best to keep this shoehorned into any list I write.

Speaking of the relic banner, has anyone had any experience with the Ancient w/ banner buffing Mephiston? 2+ Armor save followed by two 5+ chances to ignore wounds doesn't seem like something we should be ignoring on such a flexible beat-stick model. I plan on throwing him into my lists, maybe even as my Warlord, and have the Relic Banner bearing follow him around.

Out of break time *waves*


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 19:06:01


Post by: Scallywag


Martel732 wrote:
I don't think there's much of a case for Lemartes being better than Astorath. Especially with the movement stratagem.


I think Lemartes is better. Even with 3D6 you will fail about 26% of your charges after deep striking. With Lemartes your chance of getting into close combat is almost 94%. He is also cheaper and better in close combat. If I had to decide between both of them, I would choose Lemartes. A re-rollable LD9 isn't too bad. Remember that you can't use Mass of Doom after deep striking. This makes Astorath much worse in my opinion.

Martel732 wrote:
Sanguinary guard are pretty brutal when combined with the relic banner. Cast shield of sanguiniuis on them for extra lulz, although most of the time, that's not useful.


The banner is good, but it only affects models within 6" and not units. Which is a real bummer for a unit that wants to deepstrike. You also have so many other great relics. Sanguinary Guard is good, but I would always prefer another unit of Death Company.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 19:37:26


Post by: Martel732


Who said anything about deep striking?

There are many, many situations where sg are better than dc.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 19:39:42


Post by: NH Gunsmith


Scallywag wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Sanguinary guard are pretty brutal when combined with the relic banner. Cast shield of sanguiniuis on them for extra lulz, although most of the time, that's not useful.


The banner is good, but it only affects models within 6" and not units. Which is a real bummer for a unit that wants to deepstrike. You also have so many other great relics. Sanguinary Guard is good, but I would always prefer another unit of Death Company.


I still can't bring myself to run Death Company. Vanguard Vets are so good and cheap for what I need them to do. And anything that can't be reliably killed by Chainswords, I would rather shoot with Twin-Las Dreads, or Missile Devs.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 19:45:53


Post by: bobafett012


 NH Gunsmith wrote:


I still can't bring myself to run Death Company.


that's crazy...


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 19:58:54


Post by: Scallywag


Martel732 wrote:
Who said anything about deep striking?

There are many, many situations where sg are better than dc.


If you don't deep strike your Sanguinary Guard, you are doing something wrong. There is no other good way to deliver them.

Well, then tell me in which situations Sanguinary Guard are better and how you plan to get them into combat.

I am not saying that they are bad, they are actually quite good, but in a competitive environment I would always prefer Death Company.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

I still can't bring myself to run Death Company. Vanguard Vets are so good and cheap for what I need them to do. And anything that can't be reliably killed by Chainswords, I would rather shoot with Twin-Las Dreads, or Missile Devs.


Vanguard Veterans are good, but for just 2 more points Death Company are so much better. They get +1 attack, a 6+++ and profit from all the great buffs (especially re-rollable charges and attacks from Lemartes). You can also deep strike 15 of them instead of "only" 10 Vanguard Veterans. You can also charge with two large units in the first turn, using Forlorn Fury and Descent of Angels. The only really cool thing about Vanguard Veterans are the storm shields.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 20:06:17


Post by: bobafett012


I would say Sanguinary guard are better against heavy multi wound infantry, vehicles, multi wound monsters etc, where as DC excel against large mobs of lighter infantry, or 1 wound infantry.

Granted, they can get so many attacks that they can threaten most things, but as for preferred targets, if my opponent has some of these things I listed, that's how I would "aim" my Sanguinary guard vs my DC, but I like running them both.

Thing is, we have so buffs covered by our SCs, psychic powers, relics, and banners every unit can be pretty crazy. Got to spread the love around rather then super buffing a single unit, at least that's my thought process


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 20:09:20


Post by: Martel732


Sanguinary guard are almost twice as good against small arms.

My deep strike comment was about dc. I'm probably not deep striking them, so no need for lemartes.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 20:58:18


Post by: Bremon


Scallywag wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Who said anything about deep striking?

There are many, many situations where sg are better than dc.


If you don't deep strike your Sanguinary Guard, you are doing something wrong. There is no other good way to deliver them.

Well, then tell me in which situations Sanguinary Guard are better and how you plan to get them into combat.

I am not saying that they are bad, they are actually quite good, but in a competitive environment I would always prefer Death Company.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

I still can't bring myself to run Death Company. Vanguard Vets are so good and cheap for what I need them to do. And anything that can't be reliably killed by Chainswords, I would rather shoot with Twin-Las Dreads, or Missile Devs.


Vanguard Veterans are good, but for just 2 more points Death Company are so much better. They get +1 attack, a 6+++ and profit from all the great buffs (especially re-rollable charges and attacks from Lemartes). You can also deep strike 15 of them instead of "only" 10 Vanguard Veterans. You can also charge with two large units in the first turn, using Forlorn Fury and Descent of Angels. The only really cool thing about Vanguard Veterans are the storm shields.
for what it’s worth, vanguard can take two chainswords. No one is likely to stay in combat with you, but your death company will likely be charged at some point which means vanguard vet would have more attacks. Yes, I realize it’s a specific scenario lol.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 21:08:43


Post by: Xirax


Every time I try to tweak the list I'm building towards, it's looking more and more tempting to make more of an herohammer version of it. Astorath, Mephiston, Lemartes, Pimped out Librarian dread, Captain with death visions of the sanguinius.. All those can single handedly contribute in a fight if charging and inv. saves all-around (shield of sang.. for the psykers). Do you guys still think that atleast a single batallion is a necessity in a competitive mono-BA army? btw I said that alound.. both in the same sentence.. I'll take that back.. I mean semi-competitive mono-BA army.

Tactically irrelevant stuff below:
Spoiler:

Thinking ways to kitbash the captain and trying that if I could just remodel my old DC chaplain. Maybe the mask it too much. In the back you can see the axe encarmine, would it make a better relic thunder hammer, if I swap the front blade to a hammer's head. Secondly, would your LGS let me play the wip chaplain as Lemartes? Awful pics, taken with phone for quick opion anyways..





Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 21:13:05


Post by: NH Gunsmith


Scallywag wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

I still can't bring myself to run Death Company. Vanguard Vets are so good and cheap for what I need them to do. And anything that can't be reliably killed by Chainswords, I would rather shoot with Twin-Las Dreads, or Missile Devs.


Vanguard Veterans are good, but for just 2 more points Death Company are so much better. They get +1 attack, a 6+++ and profit from all the great buffs (especially re-rollable charges and attacks from Lemartes). You can also deep strike 15 of them instead of "only" 10 Vanguard Veterans. You can also charge with two large units in the first turn, using Forlorn Fury and Descent of Angels. The only really cool thing about Vanguard Veterans are the storm shields.


True. Price difference is pretty low, however that 20 points saved makes the difference for me when running my army as a double Battalion Detachment for 9 CP.

This is what I ran last weekend and was very happy with how it went:

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment #1
-Mephiston

-LT w/ Master-Crafted Bolter, Chainsword
+Warlord Trait: Soulwarden

-3x5 man Tac Squad w/ Combi-Plasma & Chainsword, Plasma Gun

-2x Dread w/ Twin-Las, Dread CCW, Storm Bolter

-5 man Dev Squad w/ 4x Missile, Cherub

-2x Rhino w/ Storm Bolter

Battalion Detachment #2
-Libby w/ Jump Pack, Plasma Pistol, Force Sword
+Relic: The Angel's Wing

-Sang Priest w/ Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

-5 man Tac Squad w/ Combi-Plasma & Chainsword, Plasma Gun

-2x5 man Tac Squad w/ Inferno Pistol & Power Axe, Meltagun

-10 man Van Vet Squad w/ Lightning Claw & Plasma Pistol, 2x Plasma Pistol

-Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

-Rhino w/ Storm Bolter

9CP       2,000/2,000


Anything big I needed to destroy got hit with heavy weapons, while the Vanguard Vets and Librarian tied up/destroyed a lot of my opponents infantry. Mephiston assassinated every buff character he could get his hands (well, sword) on.

The Tactical Squads grabbed objectives and pushed forwards in Rhinos to be my second wave. The Dreadnoughts probably didn't need their Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons in those games on Saturday, but I like having them to take care of big things that rush my army like Daemon Princes.

I am finding that a combined arms approach is the way to go for me.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 21:30:38


Post by: bobafett012


Xirax wrote:
Every time I try to tweak the list I'm building towards, it's looking more and more tempting to make more of an herohammer version of it. Astorath, Mephiston, Lemartes, Pimped out Librarian dread, Captain with death visions of the sanguinius.. All those can single handedly contribute in a fight if charging and inv. saves all-around (shield of sang.. for the psykers). Do you guys still think that atleast a single batallion is a necessity in a competitive mono-BA army? btw I said that alound.. both in the same sentence.. I'll take that back.. I mean semi-competitive mono-BA army.



I'm definitely going with a battalion along with a couple other detachments. Some of our best strategems are 2 CPs, and if you go in with 4 or 5, I think you'll very sorry later in the game when you need to use upon wings of fire, Decent of angels, or some of the general SM ones. I think i'm running a battalion, a vanguard and a spearhead, which means 4 HQs, and I think it's going to be Lemartes, The sanguinor, a JP libby, than the final spot is either going to Mephiston or A libby dread. Not sure which one I want to roll with yet, they both look awesome. Meph has more powers though and more denys and he's cheaper, so it'll probably end up being him, at least at first... Anyways, that 8 CP. That should give me enough for a couple decent of angles, a couple upon wings of fire, and a couple left over for red rampages, kill shots, plain re-rolls, or whatever else.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 21:48:30


Post by: Scallywag


Xirax wrote:
Every time I try to tweak the list I'm building towards, it's looking more and more tempting to make more of an herohammer version of it. Astorath, Mephiston, Lemartes, Pimped out Librarian dread, Captain with death visions of the sanguinius.. All those can single handedly contribute in a fight if charging and inv. saves all-around (shield of sang.. for the psykers). Do you guys still think that atleast a single batallion is a necessity in a competitive mono-BA army? btw I said that alound.. both in the same sentence.. I'll take that back.. I mean semi-competitive mono-BA army.

Tactically irrelevant stuff below:
Spoiler:

Thinking ways to kitbash the captain and trying that if I could just remodel my old DC chaplain. Maybe the mask it too much. In the back you can see the axe encarmine, would it make a better relic thunder hammer, if I swap the front blade to a hammer's head. Secondly, would your LGS let me play the wip chaplain as Lemartes? Awful pics, taken with phone for quick opion anyways..





I have the same problem. There are so many cool characters, it is hard to limit myself to only four of them. At the moment I want to run The Sanguinor, Mehpiston, Lemartes and a Captain. A Lieutenant would also be nice...

I would try to get at least 8 Command points. 9 or 10 are better, though. Going for a brigade usually isn't worth it. In my opinion you can build competitive mono-BA armies.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 21:58:27


Post by: NH Gunsmith


Scallywag wrote:
Xirax wrote:
Every time I try to tweak the list I'm building towards, it's looking more and more tempting to make more of an herohammer version of it. Astorath, Mephiston, Lemartes, Pimped out Librarian dread, Captain with death visions of the sanguinius.. All those can single handedly contribute in a fight if charging and inv. saves all-around (shield of sang.. for the psykers). Do you guys still think that atleast a single batallion is a necessity in a competitive mono-BA army? btw I said that alound.. both in the same sentence.. I'll take that back.. I mean semi-competitive mono-BA army.

Tactically irrelevant stuff below:
Spoiler:

Thinking ways to kitbash the captain and trying that if I could just remodel my old DC chaplain. Maybe the mask it too much. In the back you can see the axe encarmine, would it make a better relic thunder hammer, if I swap the front blade to a hammer's head. Secondly, would your LGS let me play the wip chaplain as Lemartes? Awful pics, taken with phone for quick opion anyways..





I have the same problem. There are so many cool characters, it is hard to limit myself to only four of them. At the moment I want to run The Sanguinor, Mehpiston, Lemartes and a Captain. A Lieutenant would also be nice...

I would try to get at least 8 Command points. 9 or 10 are better, though. Going for a brigade usually isn't worth it. In my opinion you can build competitive mono-BA armies.


Agreed, it was pretty hard to decide on 4 HQ choices. In the end, I found that sometimes cheaper is better. Having two HQ choices under 70 points gave me the room to take everything I wanted, along with Mephiston and a generic Jump Pack Librarian.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 22:25:29


Post by: Xirax


Guys see a place for a DC lieutenant with a jump pack, thunder hammer and inferno pistol. It's 15 points cheaper than a captain, it gives a buff to your DC, which is most likely next to Lemmy or Astorath, so DC blob would be rerolling wound rolls of 1. Captain is only a beast himself, but lieutenant buffs them better. Sanguinary ancient gives the same reroll buff, but I don't know, would the DC keyword give some edge to it. Maybe those weapon upgrades should be cheaper on a lieutenant than a captain. Any thoughts?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 22:50:08


Post by: Karhedron


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

I don't think the Ancient needs further protection but I would recommend starting that squad in a Repulsor if you can afford the points to prevent you from plasma alpha strikes. A squad of Tempestus Scions drop in and overcharging could take a bite out of those Hellblasters if they get T1.

You also need a Captain of some flavour for rerolls.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/11 22:55:13


Post by: NH Gunsmith


 Karhedron wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Let's talk about one of the important relics in the new codex - The Standard of Sacrifice.

5+ 'Feel no Pain' aura, very powerful. Not strong on single wound models, because being hit by double damage weapons necessitates making 2 5+ rolls. But very strong on double wound models; when they're hit by things like overcharged Plasma, making one of two 5+ rolls will keep the model alive to soak up another shot.

It's a huge survivabilty boost.
Strong to run say, a Primaris Ancient with Hellblasters and others

Question is, in that setup does such a linchpin model need a further survivabilty boost against things that can snipe?

I don't think the Ancient needs further protection but I would recommend starting that squad in a Repulsor if you can afford the points to prevent you from plasma alpha strikes. A squad of Tempestus Scions drop in and overcharging could take a bite out of those Hellblasters if they get T1.

You also need a Captain of some flavour for rerolls.


Or a Dreadnought if your willing to spend 1 CP. If I don't get first turn, I don't expect a lot of my ranged elements to survive since they still die like normal Marines. With how deadly 8th is to everything in Power Armour, a Captain honestly seemed to be a bit of a waste, if my heavy weapons make it past turn 2 I see it as a bonus.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 12:29:27


Post by: GhostRecon


List I'm mulling... Lemartes hangs with the Death Company guys, Sanguinor where needed, Mephiston starts with the foot-slogging obj-holders; LT there to support the Intercessors.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [28 PL, 491pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chief Librarian Mephiston [8 PL, 145pts]

Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 74pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]
. Scout: Camo cloak, Sniper rifle
. Scout: Camo cloak, Sniper rifle
. Scout: Camo cloak, Sniper rifle
. Scout: Camo cloak, Sniper rifle
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Camo cloak, Sniper rifle

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [55 PL, 841pts] ++

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [6 PL, 116pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Sergeant: Melta bombs, Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 2x Space Marine w/ bolt pistol and chainsword
. Space Marine w/ special pistol and chainsword: Plasma pistol
. Space Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Assault Squad [6 PL, 116pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Sergeant: Melta bombs, Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 2x Space Marine w/ bolt pistol and chainsword
. Space Marine w/ special pistol and chainsword: Plasma pistol
. Space Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Assault Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 2x Space Marine w/ bolt pistol and chainsword
. Space Marine w/ special pistol and chainsword: Plasma pistol
. Space Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

+ HQ +

The Sanguinor [9 PL, 170pts]

+ Elites +

Sanguinary Guard [22 PL, 220pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword

Sanguinary Guard Ancient [6 PL, 108pts]: Angelus boltgun, Death mask, Encarmine sword

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [45 PL, 668pts] ++

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 2x Space Marine w/ bolt pistol and chainsword
. Space Marine w/ special pistol and chainsword: Plasma pistol
. Space Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Assault Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 2x Space Marine w/ bolt pistol and chainsword
. Space Marine w/ special pistol and chainsword: Plasma pistol
. Space Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Assault Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 2x Space Marine w/ bolt pistol and chainsword
. Space Marine w/ special pistol and chainsword: Plasma pistol
. Space Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

+ HQ +

Lemartes [7 PL, 129pts]

+ Elites +

Death Company [20 PL, 206pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power axe
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol, Power axe

++ Total: [128 PL, 2000pts] ++


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sanguinor as Warlord, Ancient gets Banner of Sacrifice. Forgot that BattleScribe doesn't have those options yet.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 17:09:44


Post by: Ishotfirst


So will repost the question here. Iam looking to get into BA’s and need some advice on where to start.

From what I read so far is that Death Company starter box might be the best way to go. Based on what I have read so far it doesn’t look like BA take something bigger than a Battalion detachment. Should I buy a standard BA army box just to get the Baal Predator and other slot filler or focus on like a Dreadnought Company box?

How would you tier the troop choices in the BA codex currently? This would include HQ’s and the like...


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 17:20:23


Post by: niv-mizzet


I'm in an escalation league, and just finished off a 1k game with
10 SG, 3 fists 7 swords
SG ancient with relic banner as WL
Sanguinor
termie axe/storm shield libby with wings and unleash rage
3x 5 cc scouts
5 tac marines.

Played against nidzilla with 2 winged tyrants, 3 shooty carnifexes, and a tyrannofex with the flamer.
Dropped down, unleashed rage, and steamrolled 2 of the carnifexes while the libby tied up the third. The two tyrants came in and went after the sanguinor and got him. My next turn the guard minus their attack buffs turned around on the tyrants and barely managed to murder them with honour the chapter after losing some dudes to them. The termie libby died to the s:user ap0 carnifex in melee because I am GOD AWFUL at unmodified 2+ saves. I then retreated the remaining few guard and my ancient warlord to my backlines where the troops were twiddling their thumbs on objectives, and won the game via warlord kill and first blood.

So next round is 1250, and I'm probably going to be keeping the sanguinary bomb. Wondering what else should be added in. I could get a jump DC captain with angel wing to forlorn himself up the table if I get t1, and seriously threaten something else similar to the termie libby. Although I wouldn't have enough cp to do the 3d6 charge AND pull off the double fight at some point, so I'm not sure about that one. Maybe reinforce my backline so they aren't just hiding and waiting for the SG to win the whole game?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 19:30:38


Post by: bobafett012


 Ishotfirst wrote:
So will repost the question here. Iam looking to get into BA’s and need some advice on where to start.

From what I read so far is that Death Company starter box might be the best way to go. Based on what I have read so far it doesn’t look like BA take something bigger than a Battalion detachment. Should I buy a standard BA army box just to get the Baal Predator and other slot filler or focus on like a Dreadnought Company box?

How would you tier the troop choices in the BA codex currently? This would include HQ’s and the like...


The DC box is definitely a great start. I just picked up another one myself. You get the dread which your likely going to make into a libby dread, possibly the DC dread, and a bunch of DC. The chaplain could be a stand in for Lemartes or just a standard JP chappy, but Lemartes is far better.

As for troops, it's a good discussion topic actually. I really think all 3 are decent choices. I think i'm going to try intercessors with stalker bolt rifles at first because they have staying power with 2 wounds, good range and decent killing power. I only want 3 5 man troop squads to hold objectives so the 2 wounds seems real good. But I like the idea of infiltrating CC scouts too, with red thirst and power weapon of the sarg, so they can get in and do some damage. I like the idea of tac marines with a heavy weapon sitting back on objectives and shooting, but I also like sniper scouts too. I think I am going to go with a mixture at first, maybe 2 intercessors and 1 scout squad, either sniper or CC and see how they preform within my list.


the rest of the army is going to consist of some anti vehicle/monster support, which is either going to come in 1 of 3 flavors for me, 3 AC/LC preds (or tri las), 3 storm talons, or 3 xiphons. The last portion of the army will be my Assault forces which I think are going to be 2 10 man DC squads, 1 5 man sanguinary guard squad, and then Lemartes, The sanguinor, Mephiston, and a JP libby. That is about 2k points, 8 CPs. that gives me 7 possible charges turn 1, so hopefully with 8 CPs i can ensure I get more than %50 of those off. We'll see.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 19:33:16


Post by: Karhedron


 Ishotfirst wrote:

From what I read so far is that Death Company starter box might be the best way to go. Based on what I have read so far it doesn’t look like BA take something bigger than a Battalion detachment. Should I buy a standard BA army box just to get the Baal Predator and other slot filler or focus on like a Dreadnought Company box?

How would you tier the troop choices in the BA codex currently? This would include HQ’s and the like...

Personally I don't rate the "Start Collecting BA" set very highly. The Baal Predator, Tactical Squad and Terminator Captain are not the best units in the Codex. They are lovely models and dripping with BA iconography but in terms of effectiveness I feel they are lacking.

Scouts are probably our best Troop choice and I think that Shotgun and CCW is the best loadout. They get nice shooting and 2 attacks each to benefit from Red Thirst. Deploy them defensively to protect against enemy Deep Strike units or aggressively to get close to the enemy. They can clear chaff and bubble wrapping very efficiently for their points. Intercessors with Bolt Rifles are a close second and make great objective campers for 90 points, particularly in cover. Tactical squads just seem a little disappointing compared to our other options.

We are spoiled with some great HQ choices. Which ones work best will depend which other units you have in your army. If you are planning on taking plenty of Death Company then Lemartes is fantastic. Our Librarians have a great selection of psychic powers and the Libby Dread, Jump Pack Libby and Mephiston are all great options. In fact, you may prefer to build the Dreadnought from the Death Company box as a Librarian Dread. Sanguinary Priests are great although they synergise best with expensive multi-wound models like Sanguinary Guard or Hellblasters.

The Primaris Marines from the Dark Imperium box would work well as BAs. 2 squads of Intercessors help towards your Troop selection. Inceptors are great now they are only 45 points. Hellblasters rock, especially if led by a Captain, Sanguinary initiate and a Primaris Ancient with the Standard of Sacrifice. You can usually pick up the Imperial half of the Dark Imperium box quite cheaply and if combined with the DC starter box and some Scouts, you have the core of a decent army with plenty of options.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 20:25:32


Post by: Fifty


 Karhedron wrote:
Scouts are probably our best Troop choice and I think that Shotgun and CCW is the best loadout. They get nice shooting and 2 attacks each to benefit from Red Thirst. Deploy them defensively to protect against enemy Deep Strike units or aggressively to get close to the enemy. They can clear chaff and bubble wrapping very efficiently for their points. Intercessors with Bolt Rifles are a close second and make great objective campers for 90 points, particularly in cover. Tactical squads just seem a little disappointing compared to our other options.


Shotguns and CCWs both replace boltguns, so you can't have both. I already have a squad of 10 with bolt pistols and CCWs so I'll be using them a lot.

Slightly tempted to get Land Speeder Storms now that we have access.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 21:50:36


Post by: p5freak


 Ishotfirst wrote:
So will repost the question here. Iam looking to get into BA’s and need some advice on where to start.

From what I read so far is that Death Company starter box might be the best way to go. Based on what I have read so far it doesn’t look like BA take something bigger than a Battalion detachment. Should I buy a standard BA army box just to get the Baal Predator and other slot filler or focus on like a Dreadnought Company box?

How would you tier the troop choices in the BA codex currently? This would include HQ’s and the like...


Stay away from baal pred, furioso dread, blood talons. These are to expensive for what they can do. Libby dread, DC dread, pretty much all named characters are good, except dante. He is to expensive. Captains and lieutenants are nice buffing HQs, preds are only good if you have three, for killshot, otherwise to expensive. Use razorbacks instead. Inferno pistols are good, these are basically 6" melta pistols.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 22:25:38


Post by: bobafett012


Quick question about Wings of Sanguinius. So it's changes your move to 12" and gives you fly, it says, until your next psychic phase. It's worded a little strange though, or maybe it's just me, but it sounds like you get a free move of 12" plus you can advance, then on your move, you can move 12" again, advance again or charge.


That correct?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 22:39:53


Post by: niv-mizzet


bobafett012 wrote:
Quick question about Wings of Sanguinius. So it's changes your move to 12" and gives you fly, it says, until your next psychic phase. It's worded a little strange though, or maybe it's just me, but it sounds like you get a free move of 12" plus you can advance, then on your move, you can move 12" again, advance again or charge.


That correct?


You can immediately move the model as if it had a 12" move and the fly keyword. You could choose to advance during this, but this would remove your ability to charge. If you do charge, you can reroll distance.

On your next movement phase, the model will still have 12" move and the fly keyword, but will lose those as soon as the psychic phase starts. (Although you could just recast the power, get ANOTHER 12" move, and repeat the whole process.)


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 23:32:16


Post by: Drakeslayer


Just a small thing, but a Warlord with Artisan of War and a Thunder Hammer packs one heck of a punch with 4 damage. Season with Quickening or your buff of choice.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 23:35:49


Post by: Martel732


 Drakeslayer wrote:
Just a small thing, but a Warlord with Artisan of War and a Thunder Hammer packs one heck of a punch with 4 damage. Season with Quickening or your buff of choice.


Honestly seems like overkill. Put it on a master crafted power sword and cut down 3 W models like chaff. And be more accurate.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 23:58:01


Post by: bobafett012


 Drakeslayer wrote:
Just a small thing, but a Warlord with Artisan of War and a Thunder Hammer packs one heck of a punch with 4 damage. Season with Quickening or your buff of choice.


I don't believe you can get those things together. The Quickening can only be cast on the libby himself and there's no libby that I know of can take a thunder hammer. You could get unleash rage from a libby and/or the red rampage strategem, plus if you made him DC, that's another +1 attack, and +1 near the sanguinor. You could get 4+1+1+1+D3 attacks on a charge that do 4 damage a piece, hit on 3's and re-roll 1's to hit. So, up to 10 attacks, that's pretty good but as Martel said, probably entirely overkill.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/12 23:59:50


Post by: Tpiddy


Is anybody taking inceptors?

Are they cheap enough for consideration? Maybe coming down with a sanguinary bomb and removing chaff?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 00:01:29


Post by: Arachnofiend


The power sword captain isn't killing anything that your death company aren't already killing pretty easily. The thunder hammer captain is a baneblade hunter.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 00:29:16


Post by: Martel732


I'll bet on having to lay waste to multiple squads myself. Quantity is the enemy for me, not baneblades.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 02:09:43


Post by: niv-mizzet


Tpiddy wrote:
Is anybody taking inceptors?

Are they cheap enough for consideration? Maybe coming down with a sanguinary bomb and removing chaff?


I've got some more inceptors coming in personally. I could see them doing some work in a secondary location or supporting the SG by clearing chaff out so they don't get bogged down. They can also serve the extra purpose of making sure the SG ancient relic banner holder can't get easily picked off, which in turn would grant the inceptors FNP 5+.

I just wish we had some mechanic to deep strike more than half our units.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 02:32:49


Post by: bobafett012


The fix to that is probably use forlorn fury on DC and also run meph or libby dread since they will start on table as well, but can make it across with wings, or just run more 55 point scout squads.

My initial plan is to have 2 10 man DC squads drop in, Lemartes drop in with the DC, a 5 man SG squad drop in, the sanguinor drop in with the SG, and a regular Libby drop in. So i needed 6 units of the table, and thats 3 preds, 2 intercessors and 1 scout, and either Mephiston or a libby dread. Haven't decided who to go with yet, although i'm heavily leaning towards Mephiston


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 02:34:07


Post by: Tpiddy


 niv-mizzet wrote:
Tpiddy wrote:
Is anybody taking inceptors?

Are they cheap enough for consideration? Maybe coming down with a sanguinary bomb and removing chaff?


I've got some more inceptors coming in personally. I could see them doing some work in a secondary location or supporting the SG by clearing chaff out so they don't get bogged down. They can also serve the extra purpose of making sure the SG ancient relic banner holder can't get easily picked off, which in turn would grant the inceptors FNP 5+.

I just wish we had some mechanic to deep strike more than half our units.


I was thinking along the same lines with the ancient. Their stat line coupled with a FNP bubble seems like it would be hard to remove. I just don’t if They add enough punch. The starter set guys on eBay are tempting . Were you thinking three or max out the squad?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 02:37:21


Post by: Frozocrone


Just realised that Death Company can have Chainswords and Powers Weapons.

Better than Bolt Pistol/CCW? Assembling my Death Company Strike Force and just about started Death Company.

(Death Company Dreadnought is probably having Fists and Magna Grapple).

Martel732 wrote:
 Drakeslayer wrote:
Just a small thing, but a Warlord with Artisan of War and a Thunder Hammer packs one heck of a punch with 4 damage. Season with Quickening or your buff of choice.


Honestly seems like overkill. Put it on a master crafted power sword and cut down 3 W models like chaff. And be more accurate.


Or just take the Hammer of Baal if you've not claimed a Relic yet.

Some of the other Relics stand out to me more though.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 02:46:30


Post by: niv-mizzet


Tpiddy wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
Tpiddy wrote:
Is anybody taking inceptors?

Are they cheap enough for consideration? Maybe coming down with a sanguinary bomb and removing chaff?


I've got some more inceptors coming in personally. I could see them doing some work in a secondary location or supporting the SG by clearing chaff out so they don't get bogged down. They can also serve the extra purpose of making sure the SG ancient relic banner holder can't get easily picked off, which in turn would grant the inceptors FNP 5+.

I just wish we had some mechanic to deep strike more than half our units.


I was thinking along the same lines with the ancient. Their stat line coupled with a FNP bubble seems like it would be hard to remove. I just don’t if They add enough punch. The starter set guys on eBay are tempting . Were you thinking three or max out the squad?


Given their low numbers, and the fact that I would want to minimize the number of "tax" units I have to take to be able to deep strike more, I'd probably go with a max squad. Between being small numerically and being next to a +1 ld banner, morale would almost never hurt them. You'd have to off 5, leave the 6th, and then he'd have essentially a rerollable 3+ to stick around. (or in this case a 4-, but same odds.)


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 04:00:26


Post by: Tiberius501


 niv-mizzet wrote:
Tpiddy wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
Tpiddy wrote:
Is anybody taking inceptors?

Are they cheap enough for consideration? Maybe coming down with a sanguinary bomb and removing chaff?


I've got some more inceptors coming in personally. I could see them doing some work in a secondary location or supporting the SG by clearing chaff out so they don't get bogged down. They can also serve the extra purpose of making sure the SG ancient relic banner holder can't get easily picked off, which in turn would grant the inceptors FNP 5+.

I just wish we had some mechanic to deep strike more than half our units.


I was thinking along the same lines with the ancient. Their stat line coupled with a FNP bubble seems like it would be hard to remove. I just don’t if They add enough punch. The starter set guys on eBay are tempting . Were you thinking three or max out the squad?


Given their low numbers, and the fact that I would want to minimize the number of "tax" units I have to take to be able to deep strike more, I'd probably go with a max squad. Between being small numerically and being next to a +1 ld banner, morale would almost never hurt them. You'd have to off 5, leave the 6th, and then he'd have essentially a rerollable 3+ to stick around. (or in this case a 4-, but same odds.)


Would plasma Inceptors be capable alternatives to Hell blasters? I was considering using two units of 3 Inceptors with the plasma thingos instead of the hell blasters


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 06:39:17


Post by: Hoodwink


Am I the only one looking at a Librarian Dread as my warlord with +1 to damage trait on my Frag Cannon?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 07:08:41


Post by: p5freak


 Drakeslayer wrote:
Just a small thing, but a Warlord with Artisan of War and a Thunder Hammer packs one heck of a punch with 4 damage. Season with Quickening or your buff of choice.


Quickening only works on the librarian himself. Use a captain on a bike (index version) for higher toughness and wounds (T5, W6). Add a SS, 1CP for black rage. Give him gift of foresight instead of artisan for a 5+ FNP. Use the hammer of baal for WS2+. And as a bonus have a SM psyker who casts might of heroes on him, for S+1, T+1, A+1. Use red rampage for D3 additional attacks. Now you have a nearly unkillable CC beast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frozocrone wrote:
Just realised that Death Company can have Chainswords and Powers Weapons.

Better than Bolt Pistol/CCW? Assembling my Death Company Strike Force and just about started Death Company.


I think that company veterans are better than DC, because their choice of weapons is so much better. Give them storm bolters and power axes. A 10 model unit can unleash a bullet storm of 40 shots on the enemy, if within 12". With power axes and red thirst they are wounding T4 on 2+. A cheap captain nearby lets them reroll 1s to hit. You can give them SS for better surviveability. They can use two chainswords. Add a sanguinary priest for S+1, and you wound T4 on 2+. Give some of them two inferno pistols, once they are within 3" they can melt even the toughest monsters, daemons, vehicles, etc. Inferno pistols are so much better than any CC weapon. Two of those at 3" can do 12 damage, for 18 pts. Or give them plasmaguns, 10 models have 20 shots at 12". Overcharge with a captain nearby, to reroll 1s. Company veterans are incredible flexible. Index version can use JP.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 07:57:35


Post by: Xirax


I'm leaning on skipping the whole index thing, although the lack of upgrades on sanguinary priest is a big big downer.

I've run the +1 damage on librarian dread and the weapon with quickening and red rampage stratagem brings huge amount of pain. No mortal wounds though..

What about the DC captain, how are you guys planning on using him? I'm running DC and SG both on my list and having hard time deciding should I go along or just go solo on targets. At the moment I'm seeing him giving rerolls for SG when they drop and depart for monster/character slaying if needed.

Btw, what do you think is the regular jump pack better than the winged one?

Here's my interpretation of the new Death company captain with jump pack, relic thunder hammer and inferno pistol.. head piece is still giving me trouble..
Spoiler:



OR




Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 08:15:21


Post by: Arachnofiend


p5freak wrote:
 Frozocrone wrote:
Just realised that Death Company can have Chainswords and Powers Weapons.

Better than Bolt Pistol/CCW? Assembling my Death Company Strike Force and just about started Death Company.


I think that company veterans are better than DC, because their choice of weapons is so much better. Give them storm bolters and power axes. A 10 model unit can unleash a bullet storm of 40 shots on the enemy, if within 12". With power axes and red thirst they are wounding T4 on 2+. A cheap captain nearby lets them reroll 1s to hit. You can give them SS for better surviveability. They can use two chainswords. Add a sanguinary priest for S+1, and you wound T4 on 2+. Give some of them two inferno pistols, once they are within 3" they can melt even the toughest monsters, daemons, vehicles, etc. Inferno pistols are so much better than any CC weapon. Two of those at 3" can do 12 damage, for 18 pts. Or give them plasmaguns, 10 models have 20 shots at 12". Overcharge with a captain nearby, to reroll 1s. Company veterans are incredible flexible. Index version can use JP.

Don't Company Veterans only come in squads of five? It's an interesting idea, but which such small squad sizes I think you're gonna run into Descent of Angels inefficiency and you really wanna maximize use of that stratagem IMO.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 08:37:43


Post by: Tiberius501


What about a captain with a jump pack and two lightning claws? Give him the +1 dmg warlord trait on a claw and he's doing 5 attacks of 2dmg, re-rolling wounds. Make him a death company captain and he's getting +1 attack on th charge, librarian can give him another +1 with a spell and use a CP to give him an extra d3 on the charge. Add a Sanguinary priest for +1 str.
He'd get 8-10 attacks, hitting and wounding on 2's, re-rolling and he's only 107pts


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 08:45:36


Post by: p5freak


 Arachnofiend wrote:
Don't Company Veterans only come in squads of five? It's an interesting idea, but which such small squad sizes I think you're gonna run into Descent of Angels inefficiency and you really wanna maximize use of that stratagem IMO.


Yes, i forgot about the 5 model unit size. Thats their disadvantage. Two units would require a rhino to get them close.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 09:10:53


Post by: sossen


I can't imagine that the best use for DoA is not either a roughly max-sized DC or SG unit. VV are 18 pts per model vs the DC's 20 but they lose the ability to synergize with Lemartes' charge reroll and are less durable per pt vs typical D1 shooting. Their max unit size is smaller and their special weapon options are mostly traps - the return on damage investment is small while the durability per pt only goes down. The cheapest options are generally more efficient for either unit, and in that category bolter+chainsword trumps double chainsword given that DC already has the extra attack on the charge. If your meta doesn't require chaff-killers and you want to gear your unit towards high-T targets with good saves then SG is a better choice than VV.

If both SG and DC turn out to be ineffective with DoA then I doubt that anything could be effective with it.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 10:08:01


Post by: Covenant


For YEARS we all wanted the Land Speeder Storm and now that we got him, nobody wants to use him?!
Three of them with 5 CCW Scouts and the Troop-Tax for CP becomes a fast and (for the points) punchy Obj-Claimer?

Or do you think, it is too expensive?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 10:52:59


Post by: Red__Thirst


Covenant wrote:
For YEARS we all wanted the Land Speeder Storm and now that we got him, nobody wants to use him?!
Three of them with 5 CCW Scouts and the Troop-Tax for CP becomes a fast and (for the points) punchy Obj-Claimer?

Or do you think, it is too expensive?


I plan on doing this for one squad, and will have a tactical squad in a Razorback for my second, with a squad of Bolt Rifle intercessors as my third that are designed to stay stationary in cover and babysit an objective. The scouts will be the long range go-get-it crew, the Razorback will stay semi-close to the Intercessors and support them/go get nearby objectives, and the intercessors will be trying to fling bolt rounds out to 30" away in an effort to help knock a model down here or there while they keep the objective they're on safe.

I may pick up a second scout squad and add it to the first with another Land Speeder Storm. I like the Storm model a lot, and plan on buying one after the first of the year for giggles, as I've got a 5 man CCW & Pistol squad fully painted and ready to go that I REALLY want to zip around in their own speeder transport.. I think it'll be fun.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 11:19:56


Post by: Coyote81


Covenant wrote:
For YEARS we all wanted the Land Speeder Storm and now that we got him, nobody wants to use him?!
Three of them with 5 CCW Scouts and the Troop-Tax for CP becomes a fast and (for the points) punchy Obj-Claimer?

Or do you think, it is too expensive?


I"m loving it, and even more so the LSStorms counts as land speeders for the Datatelemetry, I'm going to be bringing my Whirldwinds in to support (Especially my whirlwind Hyperios)


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 11:41:08


Post by: Red__Thirst


Not sure how I want to equip my Land Speeder Storm. May convert an Assault Cannon onto it, that's my first choice, if I'm honest. Volume of shots off-sets hitting on 4+ when moving, or go with a Multimelta and let it hunt tanks and hope the 50/50 hit odds don't screw me too often (Not a very appealing option). I'm also strongly considering keeping it cheap and staying with the standard Heavy Bolter.

So Assault Cannon, or keep it cheap and stick with the Heavy Bolter. Choices, choices.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 13:22:17


Post by: GodsCronik


Loving interceptors as my troop choices this edition, they held up a squad of 12 berzerkers for 2 turns and cut more than half of them down.


Also quick point, noticed the start collecting and death company strike force boxes are "out of stock" online today


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 13:41:08


Post by: Frozocrone


p5freak wrote:
 Drakeslayer wrote:
Just a small thing, but a Warlord with Artisan of War and a Thunder Hammer packs one heck of a punch with 4 damage. Season with Quickening or your buff of choice.


Quickening only works on the librarian himself. Use a captain on a bike (index version) for higher toughness and wounds (T5, W6). Add a SS, 1CP for black rage. Give him gift of foresight instead of artisan for a 5+ FNP. Use the hammer of baal for WS2+. And as a bonus have a SM psyker who casts might of heroes on him, for S+1, T+1, A+1. Use red rampage for D3 additional attacks. Now you have a nearly unkillable CC beast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frozocrone wrote:
Just realised that Death Company can have Chainswords and Powers Weapons.

Better than Bolt Pistol/CCW? Assembling my Death Company Strike Force and just about started Death Company.


I think that company veterans are better than DC, because their choice of weapons is so much better. Give them storm bolters and power axes. A 10 model unit can unleash a bullet storm of 40 shots on the enemy, if within 12". With power axes and red thirst they are wounding T4 on 2+. A cheap captain nearby lets them reroll 1s to hit. You can give them SS for better surviveability. They can use two chainswords. Add a sanguinary priest for S+1, and you wound T4 on 2+. Give some of them two inferno pistols, once they are within 3" they can melt even the toughest monsters, daemons, vehicles, etc. Inferno pistols are so much better than any CC weapon. Two of those at 3" can do 12 damage, for 18 pts. Or give them plasmaguns, 10 models have 20 shots at 12". Overcharge with a captain nearby, to reroll 1s. Company veterans are incredible flexible. Index version can use JP.


Not disagreeing about weapon choice but a major pull for DC is that I don't have the Index, nor will I be purchasing it so my Company Veterans won't ever be able to Fly. Maybe you meant Vanguard Veterans? They sem like they can be kitted out pretty well.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 16:24:55


Post by: Bremon


Vanguard veterans can’t have stormbolters, so no 40 shot volley.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 16:56:09


Post by: Rocmistro


Covenant wrote:
For YEARS we all wanted the Land Speeder Storm and now that we got him, nobody wants to use him?!
Three of them with 5 CCW Scouts and the Troop-Tax for CP becomes a fast and (for the points) punchy Obj-Claimer?

Or do you think, it is too expensive?


Three problems with it:

1. They are so much more expensive than they were in 7th edition.
2. The changes to how assaulting from vehicles works makes them much less attractive. Ie, you can get a rhino for the same points, but put more dudes in it, and they have better armor/protection than a landspeeder, for virtually the same speed (or at least, enough speed). 15" turn 1 movement (advancing) plus 3" disembark plus 6" move plus 7" charge = 31" threat range which is generally going to be enough to get you clear to the other side of most boards. The LSS gets you another 6" of movement, sure, but that extra movement is largely unnecessary/superflous, and it's less protection and it carries less dudes.
3. The changes to how concealed deployment works makes, in fact, almost any dedicated transport unnecessary for scouts. This is situational, sure, but in 7th edition, you simply COULD NOT charge on 1st turn if you made an infiltrate or scout move. It's risky now, to be 9" away, but that's close enough to get off 1st turn charges (provided you do it right with LOS cover, etc).


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 19:35:51


Post by: Jamie Shred


Just got my copy of the codex and want to get your thoughts on if you can give relics to models that you are using index wargear for? Im looking at the sanguinary priest here as he cant take a jump pack in the codex but can in the index and there is now the relic jump pack which replaces a models jump pack. Looking at the flow chart on warhammer community this seems to lead to having the option to use the wargear from the index instead of the codex unless the item is in the codex. Can you take from both or is it one or the other therefore no access to relics for models with index wargear?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 19:59:33


Post by: niv-mizzet


Jamie Shred wrote:
Just got my copy of the codex and want to get your thoughts on if you can give relics to models that you are using index wargear for? Im looking at the sanguinary priest here as he cant take a jump pack in the codex but can in the index and there is now the relic jump pack which replaces a models jump pack. Looking at the flow chart on warhammer community this seems to lead to having the option to use the wargear from the index instead of the codex unless the item is in the codex. Can you take from both or is it one or the other therefore no access to relics for models with index wargear?


Off the top of my head the only restrictions on relics are:
-that the detachment be homogenous.
-that your warlord be of that faction.
-that the recipient be a non-special character of that faction with no other relic, and that he has the correct gear to replace if needed.
-and that you not be over the limit on number of relics without paying the extra CP cost.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 20:03:55


Post by: p5freak


You do get a free relic if your warlord is from the same faction, but your warlord doesnt need to be from the faction to use the relic buying stratagem.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 20:51:41


Post by: NH Gunsmith


@Xirax

I like it. Looks pretty good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote:
You do get a free relic if your warlord is from the same faction, but your warlord doesnt need to be from the faction to use the relic buying stratagem.


But the Relic doesn't need to go to your Warlord though correct?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 21:02:01


Post by: Jamie Shred


Cheers looks like were all good then.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 21:46:49


Post by: p5freak


 NH Gunsmith wrote:
@Xirax

I like it. Looks pretty good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote:
You do get a free relic if your warlord is from the same faction, but your warlord doesnt need to be from the faction to use the relic buying stratagem.


But the Relic doesn't need to go to your Warlord though correct?


If your warlord is not BA you can't give him a BA relic. That relic must go to a BA CHARACTER.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 22:21:09


Post by: NH Gunsmith


p5freak wrote:
 NH Gunsmith wrote:
@Xirax

I like it. Looks pretty good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote:
You do get a free relic if your warlord is from the same faction, but your warlord doesnt need to be from the faction to use the relic buying stratagem.


But the Relic doesn't need to go to your Warlord though correct?


If your warlord is not BA you can't give him a BA relic. That relic must go to a BA CHARACTER.


I figured, my force is 100% Blood Angels so that shouldn't be an issue. I was just thinking of making my LT the Warlord to get Soulwarden, and giving The Angel's Wing to my Librarian.

Having access to 4 attempts to Deny the Witch (Mephiston, Librarian, LT) seems fantastic. Mephiston's Warlord Trait is alright, but seems a bit unnecessary. I would rather have a backup for Deny the Witch attempts in case one character gets killed.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 23:02:45


Post by: Red__Thirst


Banged out a couple of quick lists for fun here. They're 1000 points, for use in a local Escalation League. Tactically they're designed to be take all comers lists.

List 1:
Spoiler:
1000 Point Blood Angels list - Battalion Detachment

HQ: Blood Angels Captain (with Jump Pack) Aedus Sendini: 115 Points (PL:6) Warlord, Artisan of War WL trait.
Iron Halo, Hand Flamer, Relic Blade, Jump Pack (Angel's Wing Relic), Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.
(Relic: The Angel's Wing)

HQ: Librarian Dreadnought 187 Points (PL:9)
Furioso Dreadnought Powerfist, Furioso Force Halberd, Heavy Flamer,
Smoke Launchers, & Psychic Hood
Powers: Smite, Wings of Sanguinius & Quickening

Troops: Blood Angels Tactical Squad: 101 Points (PL:5)
3x Marines with Bolters
1x Marine with Heavy Flamer
1x Sergeant with Lightning Claw & Combi-Flamer
All models armed with Frag Grenades and Krak Grenades

Troops: Blood Angels Intercessor Squad: 90 Points (PL: 5)
4x With Bolt Rifles
1x Sergeant w/ Bolt Rifle & Chainsword
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.

Troops: Blood Angels Scouts Squad: 55 Points (PL:4)
4x Scout Marines With Bolt Pistols & Close Combat Blade
1x Scout Marine Sergeant w/ Bolt Pistol, Chain Sword
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.

Transport: Razorback: 116 Points (PL: 5)
Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter

Elite: Blood Angels Company Veterans with Jump Pack: 113 Points (PL:10)
2x Marines with Chain Swords & Storm Shields
1x Marine with Powerfist & Storm Shield
1x Sergeant w/ Power Axe & Storm Shield
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.

Elite: Death Company (with Jump Packs): 156 Points (PL:18 - 7 Models)
5x With Bolt Pistols & Chainswords
1x With Powerfist & Bolter
1x With Power Sword & Bolt Pistol
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades

Elite: Sanguiniary Novitate with Jump Pack: 60 Points (PL:4)
Narthecium, Chain Sword, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Total: 993 Points
29 Models (2 Vehicles w/ 1 Character, 27 Infantry w/ 2 Characters)
Power Level: 66
6 Command Points


List 2:
Spoiler:
1000 Point Blood Angels list

HQ: Blood Angels Captain (with Jump Pack) Aedus Sendini: = 115 Points (PL:6) - Warlord, Artisan of War WL trait.
Iron Halo, Hand Flamer, Relic Blade, Jump Pack (Angel's Wing Relic), Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.

HQ: Blood Angels Librarian (with Jump Pack) Epistolary Ixion 120 Points (PL:7)
Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Psychic Hood, Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.
Powers: Smite, Shield of Sanguinius & Unleash Rage

HQ: Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost = 129 Points (PL:7)
Blood Crozius, Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, Rosariusz

Troops: Blood Angels Tactical Squad: 101 Points (PL:5)
3x Marines with Bolters
1x Marine with Heavy Flamer
1x Sergeant with Lightning Claw & Combi-Flamer
All models armed with Frag Grenades and Krak Grenades

Troops: Blood Angels Intercessor Squad: 90 Points (PL: 5)
4x With Bolt Rifles
1x Sergeant w/ Bolt Rifle & Chainsword
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.

Troops: Blood Angels Scouts Squad: 55 Points (PL:4)
4x Scout Marines With Bolt Pistols & Close Combat Blade
1x Scout Marine Sergeant w/ Bolt Pistol, Chain Sword
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.

Transport: Razorback: 116 Points (PL: 5)
Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter

Elite: Blood Angels Company Veterans with Jump Pack 113 Points (PL:10)
2x Marines with Chain Swords & Storm Shields
1x Marine with Powerfist & Storm Shield
1x Sergeant w/ Power Axe & Storm Shield
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades.

Elite: Death Company (with Jump Packs) 156 Points (PL:18 - 7 Models)
5x With Bolt Pistols & Chainswords
1x With Powerfist & Bolter
1x With Power Sword & Bolt Pistol
All models armed with Frag Grenades & Krak Grenades

995 Points Total.
30 models (1 Vehicle, 29 Infantry w/ 3 Characters)
Power Level: 67
6 Command Points


Both lists are about equal on capability, one just goes heavier in the HQ section and brings Lemartes for the DC buff. This is using what models I have painted and on-hand.

I'll be giving them a whirl soon. Looking forward to seeing how much damage I can inflict with each unit in turn.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 23:20:50


Post by: bobafett012


I like the first list, although i'd drop the razor back and Heavy flamer on Libby dread and take Lemartes. That gives you a vanguard detachment giving you a 7th CP, and giving your DC a large boost.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/13 23:28:20


Post by: Red__Thirst


bobafett012 wrote:
I like the first list, although i'd drop the razor back and Heavy flamer on Libby dread and take Lemartes. That gives you a vanguard detachment giving you a 7th CP, and giving your DC a large boost.


I would do that for more of a tournament style list, but at this point in the escalation league we are limited to one detachment for this 1000 point phase. At the 1500 point level a second detachment will open up though, so I'll be going Battalion + Vanguard for the 7th Command Point for sure.

The Razorback is meant to give the Tactical Squad some legs for responding to backfield threats along with the Intercessor Squad.

Appreciate the feedback for sure, also. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Edit: I should have mentioned I was limited to one detachment in the posts with the lists above. Whups! Pardon the derp.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 03:19:27


Post by: Ishotfirst


So I was reading over the codex vanguard vets can take Storm Shields.... I was thinking about shields a hammer or 2 n some axes with a razorback or jump packs.

Thoughts about this amazing ability to have a space Marine with a 3++?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 03:45:42


Post by: bobafett012


 Ishotfirst wrote:
So I was reading over the codex vanguard vets can take Storm Shields.... I was thinking about shields a hammer or 2 n some axes with a razorback or jump packs.

Thoughts about this amazing ability to have a space Marine with a 3++?


I don't personally think much of them, i know there is others that do but frankly, a squad of bolters or other str 4 weaponry will just mow them down anyways, and the synergies among say DC or SG and some of the HQs is too good to pass up for VV.. If I was going to run them, I could see running a larger squad with maybe 2 or 3 SS in the squad to soak those high AP hits, but not a squad full of them.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 04:43:11


Post by: Rocmistro


What synergy do you think they don't benefit from?

They can use Descent of Angels stratagem, benefit from Sanguinor, Cobulo/SPriest, Red Thirst, etc. They can also benefit from a Sang Ancient running the banner of sacrifice, which, I hasten to add, Death Company cannot.

Vanguard Vets are an awesome, viable choice in the new BA codex, more survivable than Death Company thanks to Banner of Sacrifice and/or a Stormshield, and can mulch hordes almost as well thanks dual chainswords, or, if you prefer, chainsword and storm bolter for combined dakka. I imagine most BA Players don't have them and/or won't use them because of all the other specialist jump troops we have historically had avialable (ie, cheap assault squads with better special guns, sang guard and death company), but don't think for a minute that Vanguard Vets can't be tooled for a specifc niche in a BA army.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 05:38:05


Post by: Red__Thirst


bobafett012 wrote:
 Ishotfirst wrote:
So I was reading over the codex vanguard vets can take Storm Shields.... I was thinking about shields a hammer or 2 n some axes with a razorback or jump packs.

Thoughts about this amazing ability to have a space Marine with a 3++?


I don't personally think much of them, i know there is others that do but frankly, a squad of bolters or other str 4 weaponry will just mow them down anyways, and the synergies among say DC or SG and some of the HQs is too good to pass up for VV.. If I was going to run them, I could see running a larger squad with maybe 2 or 3 SS in the squad to soak those high AP hits, but not a squad full of them.


I can think of one very good reason to run a squad like this (and it's actually why I'm running a squad like them here, honestly, only I'm using Company Veterans with Jump Packs instead of Vanguard Veterans). Tyranids. Specifically, big bugs that do D6 wounds per hit.

You throw the Storm Shield equipped guys in against these big bugs that will all but negate their power armor, and you punch them with high strength weapons such as power fists and thunder hammers. The veterans with Storm Shields will be able to soak the hits that would decimate the squad and still allow you to be able to put enough damage on target that it should, in theory, be a pale shadow of it's former un-wounded performance.

My current squad is 4 models strong, and the 5th is going to be built at some point shortly. Current theory has all 5 models armed with Storm Shields (though this may change, depending). Two models armed with chainswords, one model armed with a power fist, the Sergeant armed with a power axe, and the last model is still being hammered out as far as his loadout. I'm sorely tempted to make this power axe model that's in progress a standard Veteran marine, and make the last model a Sergeant armed with a Thunder Hammer, and an Inferno Pistol, or keep the Shield wall going across the entire squad and just run 5x Shields.

Regardless, this is the squad you send in against a big threat such as a Dreadnought, or similar model that doesn't do mortal wounds, but could feasibly kill off a valuable character or rip a vehicle to pieces in one round of combat. The 3++ shields give the squad remarkable staying power against the relatively small number of big/hard hits that would wipe a normal squad out mostly, if not completely.

I'd consider running a 10 man Vanguard Veteran Squad with Chainswords and Storm Shields on at least 4 of them, one Storm Shield and Power fist, a sergeant with a Thunder Hammer (3 attacks at 3 damage per hit) and whatever ranged weapon you want (Inferno Pistol), and 4 with a mix of power swords and power axes (2 and 2) with perhaps one Inferno pistol on each pair. Let them roll up into something with a Captain leading the way with the Angel's Wing to prevent overwatch.

Small arms will still be their bane, but hopefully you can chew through a couple of hard targets and soak enough damage that they allow the rest of your assault element to do what needs to be done.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 07:05:23


Post by: Kirasu


Covenant wrote:
For YEARS we all wanted the Land Speeder Storm and now that we got him, nobody wants to use him?!
Three of them with 5 CCW Scouts and the Troop-Tax for CP becomes a fast and (for the points) punchy Obj-Claimer?

Or do you think, it is too expensive?


Unfortunately the game has changed many editions since then. Scouts aren't punchy and bolters are simply better than CCW is one of the main issues with that strat in 8th. Honestly I don't see any purpose to a land speeder storm anymore, might as well use a razorback.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 09:10:19


Post by: bobafett012


Rocmistro wrote:
What synergy do you think they don't benefit from?

They can use Descent of Angels stratagem, benefit from Sanguinor, Cobulo/SPriest, Red Thirst, etc. They can also benefit from a Sang Ancient running the banner of sacrifice, which, I hasten to add, Death Company cannot.

Vanguard Vets are an awesome, viable choice in the new BA codex, more survivable than Death Company thanks to Banner of Sacrifice and/or a Stormshield, and can mulch hordes almost as well thanks dual chainswords, or, if you prefer, chainsword and storm bolter for combined dakka. I imagine most BA Players don't have them and/or won't use them because of all the other specialist jump troops we have historically had avialable (ie, cheap assault squads with better special guns, sang guard and death company), but don't think for a minute that Vanguard Vets can't be tooled for a specifc niche in a BA army.


First off, no where did I say they weren't viable, I just said "I" don't think much of them. Anything I need done, my DC and SG can handle just fine and both can be outfitted in all kinds of ways from their CC weapons to their ranged weapons. Yes, VV can utilize most synergies because they are JP troops, but things VV don't benefit from are forlorn fury, Re-rolls from lemartes, both of which I think are quite big. SG get a double buff when near the Sanguinor (as your warlord), +1 attack, and get to re-roll hits, they can't utilize Astorath's morale immunity.

I just don't see dumping a bunch of points in survivability of 1 wound models, i'd just rather have more models. I'd rather have the banner following The Sanguinor, and SG since they have 2 wounds, stray bolter shots don't just remove SG models.

VV aren't bad, but we already have so many of the same type of units and in similar if not the same roles as it is, so i'd rather just use the more iconic units over them.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 14:11:27


Post by: Martel732


VV vets are great because of their gear options and how their price point falls inbetween DC and SG. The access to SS is super useful, imo. Maybe I'll change my mind, but I use a squad of 8 with 5 storm shields and I really like it.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 22:22:56


Post by: Scallywag


In my opinion it is Death Company > Vanguard Veterans > Sanguinary Guard > Assault Squad.

I would choose Vanguard Veterans over Sanguinary Guard almost every time. Sanguinary Guard aren't bad, but their 2 wounds aren't that useful against a lot of weapons and you don't want to pay at least 35 points for each model in the unit. Death Company and Vanguard Veterans are much more flexible and durable (per point).


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 23:27:12


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Scallywag wrote:
In my opinion it is Death Company > Vanguard Veterans > Sanguinary Guard > Assault Squad.

I would choose Vanguard Veterans over Sanguinary Guard almost every time. Sanguinary Guard aren't bad, but their 2 wounds aren't that useful against a lot of weapons and you don't want to pay at least 35 points for each model in the unit. Death Company and Vanguard Veterans are much more flexible and durable (per point).


SG have an amazing Banner + rerolls with Warlord though.
I think you drop in the bomb with a Jump/Termie Librarian (Warlord) with Unleash Rage + SoS, SG Ancient (Relic) , and unit of SG, burn the 3D6 charge strat and go to town.



Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 23:28:23


Post by: Bremon


I don’t have experience with them but I would think SG would run well in a heavily mechanized list where there’s too many targets for lascannons for the SG to be the obvious priority, and infantry small arms fire is mostly wasted. On the flip side, DC and VV are nice in infantry heavy lists that had hardly any armour so anti tank is wasted on 1w models. So far this edition I’m finding if I bring a list with a notable amount of both armour and infantry the opponent has an easier time because every weapon in their balanced list has an easier time finding its optimal target.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/14 23:47:16


Post by: Scallywag


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Scallywag wrote:
In my opinion it is Death Company > Vanguard Veterans > Sanguinary Guard > Assault Squad.

I would choose Vanguard Veterans over Sanguinary Guard almost every time. Sanguinary Guard aren't bad, but their 2 wounds aren't that useful against a lot of weapons and you don't want to pay at least 35 points for each model in the unit. Death Company and Vanguard Veterans are much more flexible and durable (per point).


SG have an amazing Banner + rerolls with Warlord though.
I think you drop in the bomb with a Jump/Termie Librarian (Warlord) with Unleash Rage + SoS, SG Ancient (Relic) , and unit of SG, burn the 3D6 charge strat and go to town.



Vanguard Veterans also profit from the banner and Death Company are just so much better overall.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 00:17:42


Post by: Martel732


I think sg are actually the best overall because of the 2+ armor. I don't understand the fascination with dc.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 01:04:31


Post by: U02dah4


Martel732 wrote:
I think sg are actually the best overall because of the 2+ armor. I don't understand the fascination with dc.


It's because there better in almost all circumstances

+1 FNP is usually better than +1 armour save due to mortal wounds and it can't be ap'ed away not that you encounter much ap-5 but both reduce casualties by 1/6.

However SG +1W is nice but that high ap weaponry tends to also be multidamage meaning that often the DC extra model makes them similar in tankiness

Then theres cost 5 powersword+ bolter jump death company is 120pts so are a little cheaper

Skimp on the death masks and it's 140 for only 4 sanguinery guard

So what about damage well death company get an extra attack on the charge and one more model so are better at killing 1W models in cc

While at short range it's pretty much a tie 10 shots at 12" for dc vs 8 shots AP-1 for SG DC get 5 at 24" though and sg get nothing at 24" so DC are better at shooting

So what about multi Wound models Well yes SG do D3 damage but never fear 5 DC with thunder hammers and jump packs comes in at 180 pts. Sure they have -to hit but with 3 rather than D3 damage an extra model and an extra attack on the charge they do far more damage

So what does SG have going for it marginal tankiness for significant cost and reduced damage output.

The big feather they have is the standard of sacrifice which doesant effect DC. But if what you want is tankiness why not spend 10pts and go terminator for the INV.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 01:18:44


Post by: Frozocrone


Martel732 wrote:
I think sg are actually the best overall because of the 2+ armor. I don't understand the fascination with dc.


Forlorn Fury and the fact that dropping in they can have 30 S4 Bolter shots followed by 60 S4 Chainsword attacks that wound on a 5+ minimum, put a few Power Swords/Axes in there and you're doing a lot of damage.

Sanguinary Guard are also limited to truly being effective when around your Warlord. Death Company don't really have that problem (support does help though).

So yeah I think I decided on my DC loadout. 15 Bolters, 10 Chain Swords, 5 Power Swords. 320pts.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 01:19:26


Post by: bobafett012


Martel732 wrote:
I think sg are actually the best overall because of the 2+ armor. I don't understand the fascination with dc.


Yeah 2+ armor save is still important for bolter type shots which is still a lot of the fire you face.

As for DC, they look cool and the lore is awesome! I mean in terms of rules, I think they and VV are really close in capability and power level. I don't think you can go wrong with either. The main differences for me are the VV are able to toss a couple SS in the squad to soak high AP fire, and the DC have the built in FnP, and the synergy with Lemartes/astorath.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 01:53:24


Post by: U02dah4


I thineed for me the problem with SG is that they don't haveven a clear purpose PS DC or TH DC are optimised for killing inFintry or vehicles SG is in the middle


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 02:49:43


Post by: NH Gunsmith


Yeah, and Sanguinary Guard are just insanely expensive. A pretty lightly equipped squad of Vanguard Vets with a Lightning Claw, and 3 Plasma Pistols is only 209 points with Jump Packs.

They are excellent at shredding infantry, which is more of what my army needs. I have enough heavy weapons and Plasma to tackle a lot of the harder targets, I just don't have a large volume of attacks to remove screens.

Mehpiston can also take on a lot of the bigger targets, so a 400 point Squad of Sanguinary Guard is generally unnecessary when the SG really want character support as well driving up the points costs and reducing the body count of my army even more.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 04:03:21


Post by: niv-mizzet


Martel732 wrote:
I think sg are actually the best overall because of the 2+ armor. I don't understand the fascination with dc.

It's largely an issue of many of the early list theorizers not seeing the whole picture, or not being familiar with the competitive side of the game. Also apparently some misinformation seeing as how someone just said that a squad was 400.

You want to run them both as max squads to get the most out of your stratagems and take up less deep strike spots. SG have less of a morale issue when doing so. They both cost roughly the same at max after giving the DC just a touch of weaponry.
But SG can get rerolls to all hits, even shots with their AP-1 guns, reroll 1's to wound, +1 ld, a warlord fearless aura if desired, and 5+ fnp all from a single 99 point character. Ludicrous synergy there. And the fnp makes it pretty likely that each guard can suck a 2 damage hit and live, making the enemy burn another entire 2 damage wound to remove a model, not to mention that starting at 2+ armor makes them effectively have a reasonable 4 or 5+ "invuln" against most heavy weapons out in the open.

DC want Lemmy, who is more expensive, and he still doesn't solve their morale issue given that they have a bigger squad without astorath or a warlord with the fearless aura tagging along. They actually can't benefit from the banner at all despite it being better than their fnp. They lack wound rerolls without bringing along yet another character. Ask an iron hands player how helpful 6+ fnp is on a 1 wound model. I mean, they're still good, and with the way strats work in match play, I fully expect to see both units in bigger lists, but in a direct comparison, the SG are noticeably better in most situations.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 04:24:55


Post by: Martel732


People need to accept that Astorath goes with DC, not Lemartes. If I'm running a 15 man DC squad, I'm taking Astorath everytime. Lemartes does very little in practice, imo. The 3+ armor really sucks vs snipers, too. And I don't need to reroll charges if I'm not deepstriking them. Which I'm not, because forlorn fury.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 04:37:37


Post by: bobafett012


Martel732 wrote:
People need to accept that Astorath goes with DC, not Lemartes. If I'm running a 15 man DC squad, I'm taking Astorath everytime. Lemartes does very little in practice, imo. The 3+ armor really sucks vs snipers, too.


Maybe if your running 15 man DC squad but I'm not running 15 model squads, i'm running 2 10 man squads with lemartes, so Morale is much less concerning, because I can use Lemartes LD plus they have ATSKNF. That also gives me 3 units right there that can attempt a charge, and re-roll that charge. With Astorath, you'll have to use the decent of angels strategem to get your DC charge off, and at that point your probably just praying to get anything else in. I am going to be using that strategem for another unit so I can make sure to get even more units into CC when I need them to get into CC.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 04:41:29


Post by: niv-mizzet


Martel732 wrote:
People need to accept that Astorath goes with DC, not Lemartes. If I'm running a 15 man DC squad, I'm taking Astorath everytime. Lemartes does very little in practice, imo. The 3+ armor really sucks vs snipers, too. And I don't need to reroll charges if I'm not deepstriking them. Which I'm not, because forlorn fury.


Well I agree with you personally, although Lemmy causes a shocking amount of damage when he hits the lines, and gives himself the reroll charge also. Asto is a little more expensive and trades some offense for some defense. But I think there's an argument for him in both multiple DC units and with the fact that they probably want to shoot the character down in their counterattack turn, which means they can't wait for morale to remove a few DC for them; They have to do it themselves or let the hyper-offensive Lemartes jump into their backfield.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 05:42:33


Post by: THUNDERHAMMER


Is there a case for Assault Marines with Jump packs vs Bikes for a 3 Melta-gun delivery system? Are either worth taking?

How do Hellblasters fare?

Whats our good anti tank options?The Stormraven seems way to expensive now despite packing a lot of needed heavy firepower and the need for transport capacity is not needed anymore IMO


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 07:07:48


Post by: Arachnofiend


Assault Marines are bad, and so are melta guns.

Hellblasters are great, though I'm not sure if I'd take them with Blood Angels since they don't synergize as well as they do with more typical marine armies.

I like lascannon devastators, personally; they fill space in your deployment zone and since you want to run a lot of infantry anyway using lasdevs means all of the opponents' antitank goes to waste.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 13:31:16


Post by: Spado


I still don't know how to deal with screening units. I'm playin astra today and he'll bubble wrap everything as usual. Sunday i'll be playin against another gun line for sure.
What is the best thing to do? Sacrifice 1 unit of DC and a jump pack librarian turn 1 to make a path for my sanguinary guard to bring the pain on turn 2?
Additionally, how to I protect my backline?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 13:36:55


Post by: niv-mizzet


Spado wrote:
I still don't know how to deal with screening units. I'm playin astra today and he'll bubble wrap everything as usual. Sunday i'll be playin against another gun line for sure.
Whta ther best thing to do? Sacrifice 1 unit of DC turn 1 to make a path for your sanguinary guard to bring the pain on turn 2?
Additionally, how to I protect my backline?


Yes this is the exact thing keeping us from actually being competitive. What you describe is probably the best thing you can do. Hope you can thin out the screen enough in one turn that you can actually engage valuable targets on t2. In this case I wouldn't worry about your backfield. Just try to get every bolter, knife, and sharp rock thrown at them, because if it takes til t3 to engage their non-chaff units, you lost.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 13:45:30


Post by: Martel732


Lascannon the critical units like basilisks. Always bring some lascannons.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 13:46:19


Post by: wuestenfux


Spado wrote:
I still don't know how to deal with screening units. I'm playin astra today and he'll bubble wrap everything as usual. Sunday i'll be playin against another gun line for sure.
What is the best thing to do? Sacrifice 1 unit of DC and a jump pack librarian turn 1 to make a path for my sanguinary guard to bring the pain on turn 2?
Additionally, how to I protect my backline?

AM is very strong these days.
I'd shoot the bubble in first turn and then let the deep strikers appear in round two.
Could work only if you go first. Otherwise, you have to face to rounds of shooting before the DC arrives.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 13:47:23


Post by: U02dah4


Well competitively you use the non ba portion of your army

On a side note your have a back line in pure BA?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 13:51:17


Post by: Martel732


Guardsmen will have to go up to 5ppm eventually i think.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 15:09:33


Post by: Tpiddy


I was thinking maybe a brigade is the way to go. Sacrificing bodies in the SG and DC and cut my HQ's down, and trading Lemartes for three attack bikes. I'd be able to be pretty liberal with my CPs. One alternative may be to trade the tacticals in this list for scouts, and use those points to buy three more DC. I have these models though.

Brigade
HQ
Libby Dread 170
Sanguinor 170
Captain (w/ jump pack TH) 114
Troops
x5 scout squad 55
x5 scout squad 55
x5 scout squad 55
x5 tactical (x1 plasma gun) 78
x5 tactical (x1 plasma gun) 78
x5 tactical (x1 plasma gun) 78
Elites
Sanguinary ancient (Warlord) 99
x8 Sanguinory guard(swords, bolters) 280
x12 DC (jump packs) 240
Fast Attack
Attack bike, (Heavy bolter) 45
Attack bike, (Heavy bolter) 45
Attack bike, (Heavy bolter) 45
Heavy Support
x6 Dev squad (x 2 lascannon) 131
x6 Dev squad (x 2 lascannon) 131
x6 Dev squad( x 2 lascannon) 131

If my points are right this should be 2000 on the dot


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 16:00:20


Post by: Spado


U02dah4 wrote:
Well competitively you use the non ba portion of your army

On a side note your have a back line in pure BA?


I use pure BA my friend


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 18:41:46


Post by: Voidwraith


Is there a limit to the amount of Company Veteran (I think that's what they're called) squads one can run? The elite choice that can have special weapons and "Look Out, Sir" for characters...

I'd probably only run one or two squads, but they do seem like one of our best overall options.

I'm also on team Sanguinary Guard. I have a large squad of Death Company in my list, but if I had to remove 10 SG or 15 DC, the latter are coming out first...


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 20:05:43


Post by: niv-mizzet


 Voidwraith wrote:
Is there a limit to the amount of Company Veteran (I think that's what they're called) squads one can run? The elite choice that can have special weapons and "Look Out, Sir" for characters...

I'd probably only run one or two squads, but they do seem like one of our best overall options.

I'm also on team Sanguinary Guard. I have a large squad of Death Company in my list, but if I had to remove 10 SG or 15 DC, the latter are coming out first...


No other than force org slot, you can go nuts with your vets. And yeah the SG big picture wise are better, but as the game gets bigger, having both becomes a pretty obvious choice.

Bit o' advice to BA players making early charges and wiping a screen unit. Remember that you have the option, if an important enemy shooty unit or two is within less than 10", to consolidate towards them, burn honor the chapter, and pile in/consolidate 6" more, engaging them. It's expensive cp wise, but if they have a highly threatening unit like hellblasters, especially in a smaller game, this tactic can completely wreck their battle plan. Always be on the lookout for this chance.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 22:19:25


Post by: p5freak


 niv-mizzet wrote:

Bit o' advice to BA players making early charges and wiping a screen unit. Remember that you have the option, if an important enemy shooty unit or two is within less than 10", to consolidate towards them, burn honor the chapter, and pile in/consolidate 6" more, engaging them. It's expensive cp wise, but if they have a highly threatening unit like hellblasters, especially in a smaller game, this tactic can completely wreck their battle plan. Always be on the lookout for this chance.


If you wipe out a screen unit and consolidate towards the other unit which is 9" away, you are 6" away. You use honor the chapter to fight again, you pile in 3", and you are 3" away. You cant fight, because you are not within 1". It only works if you are within 7" of the other unit.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 22:38:07


Post by: Karhedron


 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:

How do Hellblasters fare?

Hellblasters are great. Run them with a cheap captain, sanguinary novitiate and Standard of Sacrifice and they are harder to shift than curry stains on a white shirt! (And they burn hotter too ).


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/15 23:06:13


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


So are DC the go to unit for clearing blobs/screens as first wavers? Seems like dropping in 15 with bolter and chainsword is 30 boltgun attacks and 60 melee attacks, not bad for 300 points. Throw in Dante for fearless and reroll all hits, point and click...


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 00:57:21


Post by: niv-mizzet


p5freak wrote:
 niv-mizzet wrote:

Bit o' advice to BA players making early charges and wiping a screen unit. Remember that you have the option, if an important enemy shooty unit or two is within less than 10", to consolidate towards them, burn honor the chapter, and pile in/consolidate 6" more, engaging them. It's expensive cp wise, but if they have a highly threatening unit like hellblasters, especially in a smaller game, this tactic can completely wreck their battle plan. Always be on the lookout for this chance.


If you wipe out a screen unit and consolidate towards the other unit which is 9" away, you are 6" away. You use honor the chapter to fight again, you pile in 3", and you are 3" away. You cant fight, because you are not within 1". It only works if you are within 7" of the other unit.


Almost correct. You get to pile in 3, (not) fight, and then consolidate 3 for every activation, which means you can indeed cross 6" of ground per activation, in addition to the 3 inches off the last half of the activation where you killed the original unit.

Again keep in mind I'm not talking about landing attacks on them. I'm talking about engaging them so that they must either fall back or stay in melee with you and not shoot on their turn. Odds are they were outside 12" of your original pre-charge position anyway, which means you couldn't declare them a target, and thus can't attack them anyway, regardless of how fast you got there or how many activations you have. (Such as using multiple honor the chapters in a non-matched-play game.)


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 03:23:48


Post by: akwing00


This maybe a dumb question, but are Company Veterans able to take Jump Packs?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 03:39:58


Post by: casvalremdeikun


 akwing00 wrote:
This maybe a dumb question, but are Company Veterans able to take Jump Packs?
Yes, per the Index.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 04:29:47


Post by: akwing00


Sweet. Having that confirmed, what do people think of small suicide melta squads of company veterans?

Squad of 3: 2 melta guns and the sergeant with a combi-melta

Same could be done with plasma as well.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 05:02:04


Post by: Zuri Prime


-snip-

Was mistaken, ignore this.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 05:25:45


Post by: bobafett012


 akwing00 wrote:
Sweet. Having that confirmed, what do people think of small suicide melta squads of company veterans?

Squad of 3: 2 melta guns and the sergeant with a combi-melta

Same could be done with plasma as well.


the problem with meltas, specially if you are using them for vehicle/monster hunters, is you can't get within the half melta range with the new DS rules, so you've got to survive a round before you can jump in close to get them off, and that's unlikely. I think long range Lascannons are just a better option at this point in the game, even guns like Auto cannons and such are probably a better option.

PLasma squads on the other hand are a different story. they get multiple shots, have dual fire mode so they can be used for multi-wound Heavy infantry, or monsters, and even vehicles in a pinch, and if they are supported by a character that allows re-rolls of some sort, then you aren't nearly as worried about over charging them. Maybe it's just me, but melta in this edition just seems very inferior to most other weapons in that role.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 05:56:18


Post by: akwing00


bobafett012 wrote:
 akwing00 wrote:
Sweet. Having that confirmed, what do people think of small suicide melta squads of company veterans?

Squad of 3: 2 melta guns and the sergeant with a combi-melta

Same could be done with plasma as well.


the problem with meltas, specially if you are using them for vehicle/monster hunters, is you can't get within the half melta range with the new DS rules, so you've got to survive a round before you can jump in close to get them off, and that's unlikely. I think long range Lascannons are just a better option at this point in the game, even guns like Auto cannons and such are probably a better option.

PLasma squads on the other hand are a different story. they get multiple shots, have dual fire mode so they can be used for multi-wound Heavy infantry, or monsters, and even vehicles in a pinch, and if they are supported by a character that allows re-rolls of some sort, then you aren't nearly as worried about over charging them. Maybe it's just me, but melta in this edition just seems very inferior to most other weapons in that role.


Thanks for the feedback, sounds like plasma is the way to go in my case. I don't have any devestator models at the moment but I do have plasma and melta squad models kitted out as I described. Nice thing is the Plasma is also cheaper


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 06:45:47


Post by: p5freak


bobafett012 wrote:

the problem with meltas, specially if you are using them for vehicle/monster hunters, is you can't get within the half melta range with the new DS rules, so you've got to survive a round before you can jump in close to get them off, and that's unlikely. I think long range Lascannons are just a better option at this point in the game, even guns like Auto cannons and such are probably a better option.

PLasma squads on the other hand are a different story. they get multiple shots, have dual fire mode so they can be used for multi-wound Heavy infantry, or monsters, and even vehicles in a pinch, and if they are supported by a character that allows re-rolls of some sort, then you aren't nearly as worried about over charging them. Maybe it's just me, but melta in this edition just seems very inferior to most other weapons in that role.


I dont see the problem. Meltas do D6 damage. Your lascannon has D6 damage as well. The 2D6 damage at half range is just a bonus.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 07:58:16


Post by: bobafett012


p5freak wrote:
bobafett012 wrote:

the problem with meltas, specially if you are using them for vehicle/monster hunters, is you can't get within the half melta range with the new DS rules, so you've got to survive a round before you can jump in close to get them off, and that's unlikely. I think long range Lascannons are just a better option at this point in the game, even guns like Auto cannons and such are probably a better option.

PLasma squads on the other hand are a different story. they get multiple shots, have dual fire mode so they can be used for multi-wound Heavy infantry, or monsters, and even vehicles in a pinch, and if they are supported by a character that allows re-rolls of some sort, then you aren't nearly as worried about over charging them. Maybe it's just me, but melta in this edition just seems very inferior to most other weapons in that role.


I dont see the problem. Meltas do D6 damage. Your lascannon has D6 damage as well. The 2D6 damage at half range is just a bonus.


Might want to open your eyes then because the D6 damage is not at all what separates these 2 weapons. Also, it's not 2D6 damage at half range with Meltas, it's 2D6, discard the lowest. There's a reason why there is virtually no melta weapons being used in the meta right now. compared to plasma, Lascannons, Auto cannons and such, it doesn't hold up. There is far better options.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 08:21:39


Post by: p5freak


bobafett012 wrote:

Might want to open your eyes then because the D6 damage is not at all what separates these 2 weapons. Also, it's not 2D6 damage at half range with Meltas, it's 2D6, discard the lowest. There's a reason why there is virtually no melta weapons being used in the meta right now. compared to plasma, Lascannons, Auto cannons and such, it doesn't hold up. There is far better options.


I know its 2D6 discarding the lowest. And you're right, there are more differences. Meltas are -4, lascannons are -3. Meltas are 8 pts. cheaper. A 5 model melta squad of company veterans with JP will cripple any T7 unit who is out of LOS of your lascannons.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 09:06:51


Post by: Boogles


For a captain with a hammer, angels wing, and +1 weapon damage, what should be in his off hand? Plasma pistol, inferno pistol, bolt pistol, or storm shield? I was really leaning towards the storm shield, but I also like the plasma pistol.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 09:27:29


Post by: Spado


I'd personally go with the stormshield. You don't want to shoot with him but simply deliver carnage and you want him to live long enough for that!


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 16:41:19


Post by: Voidwraith


As I was kitbashing together a Tycho conversion, I came across a bunch of Sternguard bodies and bits I'd purchased after Angel's Blade came out. I never REALLY got around to building them all, but it got me thinking about them again...

Sternguard are kind of awesome. Their special ammunition boltguns are great, they have 2 attacks (3 for the sarge, who can wield anything other than a Thunderhammer), and now that Red Thirst is a thing, can actually do something if forced into assault.

Unsure if I'll run the 2 special / heavy weapons, but the option sure is nice.

They also have a cheap stratagem that can turn one of their rapid fire volleys into something to actual fear.

Their only real issue is they're not wearing jump packs, but now that Drop Pods have come down in points (not enough, GW), I'm gonna free up the points to put them in my list. Also, having a drop pod allows me to think about things like fielding Tycho (otherwise never considered), Corbulo, and Mephiston in ways that make more tactical sense.

Anyone running Sternguard with success?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 16:45:11


Post by: PandatheWarrior


I think drop pod mephiston or gabriel seth with a squad of those could be decent.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 19:35:43


Post by: Fifty


PandatheWarrior wrote:
I think drop pod mephiston or gabriel seth with a squad of those could be decent.


Or Malakim Phoros. Power Fist Sarge, plus two Heavy Flamers re-rolling their wound rolls.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 20:11:06


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Gabriel Seth, Company Ancient, 2xSternguard and 2 pods would seem like a fun Flesh Tearers Vanguard Detachment side project.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 20:29:18


Post by: fatbudda319


This might sound really stupid but if I used the Hellfire Shells stratagem and then used the armorium cherub would my heavy bolter essentially get 2D3 mortal wounds or would it revert back to normal heavy bolter rounds?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 20:50:49


Post by: Fifty


fatbudda319 wrote:
This might sound really stupid but if I used the Hellfire Shells stratagem and then used the armorium cherub would my heavy bolter essentially get 2D3 mortal wounds or would it revert back to normal heavy bolter rounds?


The stratagem says you can only make one hit roll this phase, so you could probably not use the cherub in this situation.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 21:34:58


Post by: PandatheWarrior


What do you think of the 2 plasma or 2 melta assault squad ?

It's to get with a captain with jp. I'm think inceptor would do great too but i feel they are a tad vulnerable for their cost.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/16 23:55:39


Post by: Martel732


BA inceptors are boss. Just played a game with them. I'm getting three more for sure.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 01:30:51


Post by: bobafett012


Martel732 wrote:
BA inceptors are boss. Just played a game with them. I'm getting three more for sure.


Yeah, they seemed good to me too. I ordered 2 boxes a week ago. How did you run them?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 03:21:49


Post by: Budzerker


How are you guys equipping scouts? I plan on using them to help clear screens and block enemy alpha strike.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 05:48:22


Post by: Martel732


bobafett012 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
BA inceptors are boss. Just played a game with them. I'm getting three more for sure.


Yeah, they seemed good to me too. I ordered 2 boxes a week ago. How did you run them?


Just bolters. But I'm going to try a bigger squad when I get some more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Budzerker wrote:
How are you guys equipping scouts? I plan on using them to help clear screens and block enemy alpha strike.


CQC scouts.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 06:37:40


Post by: Crimson Devil


Seeing you happy is weird.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 07:31:00


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Martel732 wrote:
BA inceptors are boss. Just played a game with them. I'm getting three more for sure.
Squads or models? Which version did you run?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 09:46:56


Post by: diepotato47


Just bought a box of Inceptors myself, about to paint them up. Plasma all the way!
Squads of three or six for Inceptors? And did you manage to get them in to close combat at all? Curious to see if they'd hold up.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 16:10:39


Post by: bobafett012


Seems like the plasma variant are just too expensive for 3 models. The bolter ones, however, while they still seem to be a touch too expensive,appear to be the way to go.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 16:59:18


Post by: Martel732


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
BA inceptors are boss. Just played a game with them. I'm getting three more for sure.
Squads or models? Which version did you run?


Just three bolter guys. But it was at 1k. They are great for blasting weaker units off objectives in later turns. Yes they can be killed, but they can stay out of a lot of double tap ranges and ba are good at providing other distractions.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 17:32:46


Post by: niv-mizzet


Yeah inceptors don't seem all that super in core marines, but when they're showing up in cover and you're also dealing with a forlorn fury DC squad and a descent of angels sanguinary guard squad, it really opens up some room for them to pull some weight. I lose track of if I said this already in this thread, but I'm pretty much always going to have a full assault bolter squad show up bodyguarding the sanguinary ancient with fnp banner to dakka some annoyances out of the way for the 18 wheeler that is a full SG squad.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 17:36:22


Post by: Martel732


Upon wings of fire makes them great.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 18:13:03


Post by: casvalremdeikun


Martel732 wrote:
Upon wings of fire makes them great.
That was my thought with either variant. Drop in, blast away at whatever the appropriate target is, charge in, then jump out of combat in the next movement phase.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 19:09:08


Post by: p5freak


bobafett012 wrote:
Seems like the plasma variant are just too expensive for 3 models. The bolter ones, however, while they still seem to be a touch too expensive,appear to be the way to go.


I disagree. The point costs are ok now for both variants.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 20:40:31


Post by: Martel732


The plasma variants do make things VERY dead.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 21:05:46


Post by: Voidwraith


Anyone have good or bad stories / experience using the Forlorn Fury strat?

I did manage to get my first game in yesterday...Descent of Angels only got me 10" when I needed 12 or so to tie up everything I wanted to assault. The relic banner may have actually saved a wound, but I don't recall it happening...just terrible luck there. I'll still make lists planning to use both, but things never seem to work as well as they could (or you'd hoped).


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 21:47:27


Post by: Scallywag


Martel732 wrote:
The plasma variants do make things VERY dead.


But they are also a huge target in an army that mainly consists of infantry models. On top of that you need to either keep a Captain or Dante around them. I prefer Devastators in my list.

The assault bolter Inceptors are quite cool, but usually you don't really need them, since almost everything in our army is already great against infantry.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 21:48:24


Post by: Titomcd


mokoshkana wrote:
What's the ideal loadout for a 5 man squad of DC with jump packs? I was thinking of two power swords, two power axes, and a thunderhammer. This allows for a nice spread of targets as they could charge more than just infantry and do some effective damage.

Also, is there any real advantage to pistols over bolters? In my experience, nothing stays stuck in combat unless it is a dedicated close combat squad, in which case one squad will probably be dead after two rounds of fighting, so you'll most likely never get to use those pistols while locked in combat.


I'm curious to more thoughts on this.

I just picked up the Death Company Strike Force and some Sanguinary Guard to get started. Should i build three 5 man units of DC with specialized roles?

For example, one of them right now is built with 4 hand flamers, 4 chainswords, and one power sword and plasma pistol. All with Jump Packs


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 21:55:55


Post by: Scallywag


Titomcd wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
What's the ideal loadout for a 5 man squad of DC with jump packs? I was thinking of two power swords, two power axes, and a thunderhammer. This allows for a nice spread of targets as they could charge more than just infantry and do some effective damage.

Also, is there any real advantage to pistols over bolters? In my experience, nothing stays stuck in combat unless it is a dedicated close combat squad, in which case one squad will probably be dead after two rounds of fighting, so you'll most likely never get to use those pistols while locked in combat.


I'm curious to more thoughts on this.

I just picked up the Death Company Strike Force and some Sanguinary Guard to get started. Should i build three 5 man units of DC with specialized roles?

For example, one of them right now is built with 4 hand flamers, 4 chainswords, and one power sword and plasma pistol. All with Jump Packs


If you run a 5 man squad, I would keep it cheap. Give them boltguns and chainswords. But usually you want to run larger squads of DC to make use of our stratagems. Build a 15 man unit and run them with Lemartes. Hand flamers are strictly worse than boltguns in my opinion.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 22:19:36


Post by: p5freak


5 model DC is not worth it. If you want a small specialized unit to take out tanks, monsters, etc. go with company veterans. DC needs to be at least 10 models with boltguns, chainswords, power axes or power swords. Boltguns will give you twice as many shots as pistols at 12". I see no real use for bolt pistols. Handflamers are not worth 1 pt., i wouldnt use them if they were free.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 23:02:39


Post by: Razerous


How good are scouts (or other cheap units.? which I'm not sure if there are any?) that wound things @ +1 to normal.

For example.. it's like comparing normal scouts against T4 models to BA scouts are now as-if-they-were Str7 against T7+ models. (and are technically better than Str7 vs... T15 models )


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 23:31:06


Post by: Scallywag


Razerous wrote:
How good are scouts (or other cheap units.? which I'm not sure if there are any?) that wound things @ +1 to normal.

For example.. it's like comparing normal scouts against T4 models to BA scouts are now as-if-they-were Str7 against T7+ models. (and are technically better than Str7 vs... T15 models )


Scouts are one of the best units in the book. I will run 6 units in my brigade.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/17 23:57:38


Post by: Titomcd


p5freak wrote:
5 model DC is not worth it. If you want a small specialized unit to take out tanks, monsters, etc. go with company veterans. DC needs to be at least 10 models with boltguns, chainswords, power axes or power swords. Boltguns will give you twice as many shots as pistols at 12". I see no real use for bolt pistols. Handflamers are not worth 1 pt., i wouldnt use them if they were free.


i guess i just envisioned them spraying flames everywhere in hand to hand combat. lol

Could anyone help me out with some list help and the path forward?

I currently have (unassembled):

15 DC
Dreadnought (DC Dread, maybe Libby Dread?)
10 sanguinary guard
sanguinor
death company chaplain

trying to put something decent together to start and then move forward from there.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 01:03:00


Post by: U02dah4


Titomcd wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
What's the ideal loadout for a 5 man squad of DC with jump packs? I was thinking of two power swords, two power axes, and a thunderhammer. This allows for a nice spread of targets as they could charge more than just infantry and do some effective damage.

Also, is there any real advantage to pistols over bolters? In my experience, nothing stays stuck in combat unless it is a dedicated close combat squad, in which case one squad will probably be dead after two rounds of fighting, so you'll most likely never get to use those pistols while locked in combat.


I'm curious to more thoughts on this.

I just picked up the Death Company Strike Force and some Sanguinary Guard to get started. Should i build three 5 man units of DC with specialized roles?

For example, one of them right now is built with 4 hand flamers, 4 chainswords, and one power sword and plasma pistol. All with Jump Packs


5 Man units are optimal

Whatever people say 15 man units are insane points wise and more often than not lead to over kill and then moral loses. Also when they mess up charge wise (and even with lemartes they only make it in 20/36 times. those pts are sat out in the open. With multiple 5 man squads unit a may fail unit B and C may then suceed and lemartes can buff multiple 5 man squads so youll likely get 2 out of 3 in

The question is more what are you intending your death company to kill.

Infantry power swords and bolt guns. (The best all round choice as its actually quite pts efficient for damage output) the power sword upgrade is always worth it. (Chainswords are ok but only if you know your playing vs guardsmen or equivalent.)

Vehicles 4 Thunder hammers and a chainsword boltgun or 5 Thunder hammers. (You'll ) deal about 3D per TH without buffs taking one cheap dude saves you a few pts on the model that dies to overwatch.

So assuming lemartes 3 4 man th squads one fails the charge 2 get in exp kill a knight
One 15 man squad 20/36 exp kill a knight


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 04:02:02


Post by: Martel732


Not everything in our army is great against infantry from 18" away with a 10" move.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 09:02:31


Post by: wuestenfux


I currently have (unassembled):

15 DC
Dreadnought (DC Dread, maybe Libby Dread?)
10 sanguinary guard
sanguinor
death company chaplain

You need anti-tank.
However, our anti-tank is not better than the anti-tank of the vanilla Marines.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 14:58:01


Post by: Titomcd


 wuestenfux wrote:
I currently have (unassembled):

15 DC
Dreadnought (DC Dread, maybe Libby Dread?)
10 sanguinary guard
sanguinor
death company chaplain

You need anti-tank.
However, our anti-tank is not better than the anti-tank of the vanilla Marines.


Thanks - does a tank-hunting unit of DC (hammers/fists/inferno) count? Or should I be looking at devastators/baal preds


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:00:42


Post by: Martel732


You need some lascannons.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:07:08


Post by: p5freak


Titomcd wrote:

Thanks - does a tank-hunting unit of DC (hammers/fists/inferno) count? Or should I be looking at devastators/baal preds


Devastators/razorbacks with lascannons are the best choice. Baal preds suck, they cost more points than a razorback, and are worse, not worth using. If you want to use preds use 3 regular preds with the killshot strategem. Baal preds cant use the killshot stratagem.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:10:26


Post by: Martel732


That needs an faq. It seems to me like they can.

Razors are not great for BA b/c they don't generate CPs.

Autolas preds are solid. Even more solid when they faq our preds back to 90.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:40:29


Post by: p5freak


Martel732 wrote:
That needs an faq. It seems to me like they can.


It seems to me they cant. The stratagem specifically calls out the units name in small letters "predators", not the keyword in capital letters "PREDATORS". But i believe its going to be changed in the BA FAQ.

Martel732 wrote:

Razors are not great for BA b/c they don't generate CPs.


True, but they save points. Points you can use to generate CPs. Three lascan preds are 420 (i already counted 90 plus 50 for twin lascannons). Three lascan razorbacks are 360. For the 60 points saved you can get a two-thirds vanguard detachment. Three units of company veterans are 96 pts. These can embark in the razorbacks, not increasing your deployment count. For just 36 points more you get three twin lascannon razorbacks and 6 company veterans and 1 CP. Drawback is you cant use killshot.

Martel732 wrote:

Autolas preds are solid. Even more solid when they faq our preds back to 90.


That must be a typo. Will surely be changed in the BA FAQ.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:43:18


Post by: Martel732


There's also the tac w/lascannon approach.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:48:05


Post by: p5freak


Did you know FW has a dreadnought drop pod ? Put a libby dread in it, deepstrike it, cast quickening on itself, maybe add red rampage for D3 additional attacks, and voila, alpha strike turn 1.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:49:32


Post by: Martel732


It's pretty expensive pointswise, and the mold is broken. But you can use a 3rd party pod in most circumstances.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:52:19


Post by: p5freak


Martel732 wrote:
It's pretty expensive pointswise, and the mold is broken. But you can use a 3rd party pod in most circumstances.


Not more expensive than a regular drop pod, 80 pts. It lets you alpha strike turn 1 without spending any CPs. I have a regular GW drop pod which i dont use. Might as well proxy it as the dreadnought drop pod.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 15:54:11


Post by: Martel732


I would like to have a different model at least. Also, my current league disallows FW. And special characters, so that's interesting as a BA player.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 16:27:28


Post by: Frozocrone


p5freak wrote:
Titomcd wrote:

Thanks - does a tank-hunting unit of DC (hammers/fists/inferno) count? Or should I be looking at devastators/baal preds


Devastators/razorbacks with lascannons are the best choice. Baal preds suck, they cost more points than a razorback, and are worse, not worth using. If you want to use preds use 3 regular preds with the killshot strategem. Baal preds cant use the killshot stratagem.


I wouldn't say Baals suck, but that said, I did just replace the Rhino and Baal in my 1k list with 2 AssaultBacks (not sure I had the points for Las variants).


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 17:03:10


Post by: bobafett012


Yeah, I don't think Baals suck at all, at least the dakka baal, but they are over costed by a good bit i think.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 18:30:14


Post by: wuestenfux


Titomcd wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I currently have (unassembled):

15 DC
Dreadnought (DC Dread, maybe Libby Dread?)
10 sanguinary guard
sanguinor
death company chaplain

You need anti-tank.
However, our anti-tank is not better than the anti-tank of the vanilla Marines.


Thanks - does a tank-hunting unit of DC (hammers/fists/inferno) count? Or should I be looking at devastators/baal preds

In particular, an AM army with several LRBT's may screen the tanks by some bubbles of Conscripts or whatnot.
So the answers are No and Probably (Baal Predators are not anti-heavy tank).
Today, your army should include about 40% of anti-tank or anti-monster.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 18:59:26


Post by: p5freak


bobafett012 wrote:
Yeah, I don't think Baals suck at all, at least the dakka baal, but they are over costed by a good bit i think.


Tell me a good reason (no fluff) why i should pay 30 pts. more for a baal pred with twin assault cannon. Cant use killshot. Cant shoot any of his guns after advancing. Cant transport models. Can run away up to 24" though with the lucifer engine stratagem, wow.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 19:01:51


Post by: Martel732


If they faq in killshot, it will be okay, I think.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 19:42:23


Post by: THUNDERHAMMER


Anybody using a stormtalon/hawk? I dont have much use for a razorback and a predator is kind of slow for my fast moving force. Its a way to get some lascannons on the field and the hawk isnt so bad with skimmers and jump pack units being around


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 19:44:28


Post by: Voidwraith


Or...Baal Preds CAN use killshot until a GW Faq says otherwise.

I don't understand why everyone so eagerly jumps to the crappiest, most "rain on your parade" interpretation of a shoddily written rule.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 19:59:36


Post by: U02dah4


I dont see the problem personally the strategem targets predators and baal predators have the predator keyword so its a valid target

Just as strike of the archangels can target assault terminators and wisdom of the ancients can effect a librarian dreadnought


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 20:07:28


Post by: Karhedron


Titomcd wrote:
Thanks - does a tank-hunting unit of DC (hammers/fists/inferno) count? Or should I be looking at devastators/baal preds

Nothing wrong with a few hammers/fists for hunting big game with your DC. However they are not reliably able to engage the targets you want. Opponents can screen their vehicles/monsters from CC much more easily than they can from shooting.

I would always include some long-ranged anti-tank in your army and Lascannons are about the easiest and one of the most points efficient ways of doing it. Dev squads, Razorbacks and even the humble Tac squad are all viable lascannon caddies as long as you field them in decent volumes. Grav cannons make an interesting alternative and are also great at mulching infantry but are expensive and shorter ranged. melta is very short ranged and is harder to get close to the target in this edition.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 20:07:34


Post by: AlexHeap


U02dah4 wrote:
I dont see the problem personally the strategem targets predators and baal predators have the predator keyword so its a valid target

Just as strike of the archangels can target assault terminators and wisdom of the ancients can effect a librarian dreadnought


Strike of the Archangels and Wisdom of the Ancients call out keywords which are in bold: BLOOD ANGELS TERMINATOR unit and BLOOD ANGELS DREADNOUGHT respectively.

Kill shot calls out the Predator unit name not the PREDATOR keyword.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 20:09:12


Post by: Karhedron


 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Anybody using a stormtalon/hawk? I dont have much use for a razorback and a predator is kind of slow for my fast moving force. Its a way to get some lascannons on the field and the hawk isnt so bad with skimmers and jump pack units being around

I haven't tried it yet but I think an airwing of 2 Talons and a Stormraven could bring plenty of anti-tank. Not sure points efficient it is but I plan to give it a try.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 20:41:22


Post by: EldarExarch


I'm definitely going to include a Stormraven in my BA force, and since my force will be mostly Infantry I plan to kit it out to hunt armor. I also plan to embark a DC dreadnought in it for additional tank hunting (with fists of course).

Just not sure I will have enough points left over for talons as you suggest, though it would be nice.

I also am struggling to find points for my long-range anti tank.

I'm wanting to take 15 DC and a decent size squad of SG. Troops will consist of 2 5 man intercessor squads and either a tac squad or scouts (trying to keep the third TROOP cheap). Stormraven + DC dread, + Characters (ancient with relic banner, lieutenant with power sword, close combat captain, and sanguinary priest.)

I haven't counted out the exact points yet but I dont believe I have much left over after all that :(


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 20:44:43


Post by: Martel732


Raven can bring 6 long range anti-tank shots. Fit in a couple of tacs with lascannons and you might be okay.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 21:03:19


Post by: Voidwraith


My last few BA games, I've ran four 5 man tac squads, 2 with Missile launchers and 2 with Heavy Bolters. I've also ran a 5 man Dev squad with 2 Missile launchers and 2 Lascannons embarked in a Plasma Obliterator.

Both games, I'd have been better off with the Missile launchers being Lascannons. I thought I'd enjoy the option of going anti-horde with the ML if I'd like, but I think I've only done it once in the past 2 games. Meanwhile, if they'd been Lascannons instead, I'm sure it'd have helped against the armor we're bound to always face.

Also, the Plasma Obliterator has proven to be ridiculously volatile when it comes to number of shots and damage output. The first game I rolled 12 shots two times, but because it's BS is 5+, managed to miss most of the die rolls. The second game, we only played 3 turns...it dealt maybe 6 or 8 total damage. On the plus side, it DOES soak up a ton of fire, is hard to actually damage, and totally protects the Devastator squad who actually DOES get some work done. I'm always taking it out of my lists, but it's painted and has a purpose, so it usually finds a way back in...

Having said all that, everything above isn't enough long-ranged firepower to realistically deal with armored gunlines. Because the new codex has fun new stratagems, I've replaced my Stormraven and Lascannon Predator with Sanguinary Guard and other Jump / Drop units, but that's probably a mistake. I dunno...more playtesting is required.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 21:05:57


Post by: Martel732


My 2K list has 900 ish points of gunline and 1100 pts of aggression. The 900 pts includes a jump lieutenant that can upon wings of fire into the aggressive section.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/18 22:06:44


Post by: bobafett012


I'm going to start out running 3 AC/LC or tri-las preds as I did back in 5th and 6th, although every time I see those Xiphons, I think, 3 of those would be so crazy good and they are only 20 points more than the tri-las, and 30 more than the AC/LC preds.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/19 04:53:06


Post by: p5freak


 Karhedron wrote:
 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Anybody using a stormtalon/hawk? I dont have much use for a razorback and a predator is kind of slow for my fast moving force. Its a way to get some lascannons on the field and the hawk isnt so bad with skimmers and jump pack units being around

I haven't tried it yet but I think an airwing of 2 Talons and a Stormraven could bring plenty of anti-tank. Not sure points efficient it is but I plan to give it a try.


Only one Flyer, xiphon interceptor. Keep in mind that flyers can't hold objectives, three flyers makes it easier for the opponent to wipe out all your ground units.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/19 05:10:12


Post by: Crimson Devil


p5freak wrote:
bobafett012 wrote:
Yeah, I don't think Baals suck at all, at least the dakka baal, but they are over costed by a good bit i think.


Tell me a good reason (no fluff) why i should pay 30 pts. more for a baal pred with twin assault cannon. Cant use killshot. Cant shoot any of his guns after advancing. Cant transport models. Can run away up to 24" though with the lucifer engine stratagem, wow.



I use both a Quad las Predator, a Dakka Baal w/HBs and 2 Razors and I've found that both predators draw a lot more enemy attention in the early game. My Razors last a lot longer because of it. Sometimes they even survive the game.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/19 21:46:31


Post by: Ishotfirst


How would you construct. 1500 point list from 2 DC starters? Plus one captain in terminator armor. Randomly found one at store for a few bucks.

If I am engaging in a new army I’m going to need a game plan.

For those who don’t know what’s in the box. It’s 15 DC, 1 Chaplain, 1 Dred. So 2 boxes would be 30 DC, 2 Chaplains, 2 Dred’s.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/19 22:11:00


Post by: bobafett012


 Ishotfirst wrote:
How would you construct. 1500 point list from 2 DC starters? Plus one captain in terminator armor. Randomly found one at store for a few bucks.

If I am engaging in a new army I’m going to need a game plan.

For those who don’t know what’s in the box. It’s 15 DC, 1 Chaplain, 1 Dred. So 2 boxes would be 30 DC, 2 Chaplains, 2 Dred’s.


Break the DC into 5 or 10 man squads, use 1 chaplain as Lemartes, 1 libby dread, and 1 DC dread, and the last chaplain as either a regular JP chaplain or astorath. I'd break the DC into enough squads so that you could get 2 vanguards so you at least get 5 CP, which is still very low for BA but, if that's all you got right now then you'll just have to make due. With left over points, add in CC weapons to DC.

If that's all I had, i'd start with 4x 5 man DC squads and 1x 10 man DC squad. that plus your DC dread would give you the elites for 2 vanguards. Drop your biggest DC squad, and a 5 man squad with Lemartes, and the chaplain/astorath on a flank, and start your other 3 DC squads, plus the libby and DC dreads on the table. You can wings the Libby dread to get him across the table. You'd have enough CPs to forlorn 1 DC squad, and decent of angels another, and still have 1 left for upon wings of fire. Mechanized armies would be pretty brutal to fight though.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/19 23:15:29


Post by: Ishotfirst


bobafett012 wrote:
 Ishotfirst wrote:
How would you construct. 1500 point list from 2 DC starters? Plus one captain in terminator armor. Randomly found one at store for a few bucks.

If I am engaging in a new army I’m going to need a game plan.

For those who don’t know what’s in the box. It’s 15 DC, 1 Chaplain, 1 Dred. So 2 boxes would be 30 DC, 2 Chaplains, 2 Dred’s.


Break the DC into 5 or 10 man squads, use 1 chaplain as Lemartes, 1 libby dread, and 1 DC dread, and the last chaplain as either a regular JP chaplain or astorath. I'd break the DC into enough squads so that you could get 2 vanguards so you at least get 5 CP, which is still very low for BA but, if that's all you got right now then you'll just have to make due. With left over points, add in CC weapons to DC.

If that's all I had, i'd start with 4x 5 man DC squads and 1x 10 man DC squad. that plus your DC dread would give you the elites for 2 vanguards. Drop your biggest DC squad, and a 5 man squad with Lemartes, and the chaplain/astorath on a flank, and start your other 3 DC squads, plus the libby and DC dreads on the table. You can wings the Libby dread to get him across the table. You'd have enough CPs to forlorn 1 DC squad, and decent of angels another, and still have 1 left for upon wings of fire. Mechanized armies would be pretty brutal to fight though.




Should I forgo one of the DC Boxes and get a BA starter box or a 3 box of dreds? It would still get me 1500.... I think. Less start up cost as well. The problem with the Get started box is lack of the extra 5 foot troops.... I’m willing to bet I can find cheep somewhere but would probably be standard space Marine.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/19 23:54:51


Post by: bobafett012


BA are very CP heavy, so a battalion is a good start because you are at 6 CPs from jump. I think scouts and intercessors are our best troops to take to get your battalion, not sure what's in the BA starter box. I wouldn't bother with the dread box. The libby dread is really the only one I would consider as it can't be targeted since it's a character and can use the wings psychic power to get across the table very quickly.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 00:31:12


Post by: senor_flojo


Got to properly try out the codex this weekend, fielded an infantry-only army to try out some units.

The list I used:
Spoiler:

Blood Angels - 3 Detachments, 10 CP, 1997pts, 133PL

++Battalion Detachment - Blood Angels (633pts, 33PL)++
HQ:
-Lieutenant - chainsword and bolt pistol (60pts, 4PL)
-‎Lemartes (129pts, 7PL)

Troops:
-‎Tactical Squad - 3x boltgun, lascannon, plasma pistol and chainsword (97pts, 5PL)
-‎Tactical Squad - 3x boltgun, lascannon, plasma pistol and chainsword (97pts, 5PL)
-‎Tactical Squad - 3x boltgun, lascannon, plasma pistol and chainsword (97pts, 5PL)

Elites:
-Sternguard Veterans - lascannon, lascannon, combi-plasma, special issue boltgun, power sword and special issue boltgun (153pts, 7PL)

++Battalion Detachment - Blood Angels (824pts, 63PL)++
HQ:
-Captain - chainsword and storm bolter (76pts, 5PL)
-‎Chief Librarian Mephiston - (145pts, 8P)
-‎Powers: Wings of Sangunius, Quickening, Unleash Rage

Troops:
-Scout Squad - 4x combat knife and bolt pistol, chainsword and bolt pistol (55pts, 6PL)
-Scout Squad - 4x combat knife and bolt pistol, chainsword and bolt pistol (55pts, 6PL)
-‎Scout Squad - boltgun, 2x astartes shotgun, heavy bolter, chainsword and boltgun (65pts, 6PL)

Elites:
-‎Death Company - jumo packs, power fist and inferno pistol, 2x thunder hammer, 2x power sword and plasma pistol, 10x chainsword and bolt pistol (343pts, 24PL)
-‎Death Company - 5x chainsword and boltgun (85pts, 8PL)

++Vanguad Detachment - Blood Angels (540pts, 39PL)++
HQ:
-Sanguinary Priest - jump pack, power sword and bolt pistol (90pts, 5PL)

Elites:
-‎Sanguinary Guard - 2x angelus bolter and encarmine sword, plasma pistol and encarmine sword, plasma pistol and encarmine axe, angelus bolter and encarmine axe (191pts, 20PL)
-Sanguinary Ancient (*WARLORD*) - death mask, power fist and inferno pistol (107pts, 6PL)
-‎Warlord Trait: Soulwarden
-‎Relic: Standard of Sacrifice
-‎Vanguard Veteran Squad - jump packs, storm shield and inferno pistol, storm shield and thunder hammer, storm shield and power axe, storm shield and chainsword (152pts, 8PL)


Some notes:

- Sanguinary Guard with the ancient as warlord with Standard of Sacrifice is great. Rerolling all failed attacks and wounds of 1 in the fight phase is great, plus the 5+ FNP makes them great without the need of a captain or lieutenant. How many more times can I say great?

- Scouts for screening is excellent. Give them free guns (bolter/shotgun) or knives. Ironically enough, my shooty scouts in cover died quicker than my cc scouts in the open preventing deep strike from some terminators (I played against Death Guard)

- The Sanguinary Priest wasn't worth its points. I was able to heal some SG with it, but the +1 strength isn't really that important anymore with red thirst being what it is. But maybe I used it wrong. I kept it around SG the entire match, so maybe it's better around other units.

- Lemmy with a bunch of DC is fun. I was able to get off forlorn fury on my foot DC, which was helpful, but I wouldn't want to leave 15 in the open at the start of the game, hoping I win the rolloff. I will be trying death visions with a lieutenant next game I play to see how that helps with Lemartes.

- 10 command points wasn't enough. Once I get my three scout bike squads, I will be adjusting my list into a brigade:
Spoiler:


++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [127 PL, 2000pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Whirlwind [5 PL, 104pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

Whirlwind [5 PL, 104pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

Whirlwind [5 PL, 104pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

+ HQ +

Chief Librarian Mephiston [8 PL, 145pts]

Lemartes [7 PL, 129pts]

Lieutenants [5 PL, 90pts]
. Lieutenant: Jump Pack, Power fist
- CP for Death Visions of Sanguinus

+ Elites +

Death Company [27 PL, 338pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword

Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]: 2. Artisan of War, Inferno pistol, Power fist, Standard of Sacrifice, Warlord

Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 194pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Encarmine sword, Plasma pistol
. Sanguinary Guard: Encarmine axe, Plasma pistol
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword

+ Fast Attack +

Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 84pts]
. Scout Biker: Astartes grenade launcher
. Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker Sergeant: Chainsword, Twin boltgun

Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 84pts]
. Scout Biker: Astartes grenade launcher
. Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker Sergeant: Chainsword, Twin boltgun

Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 84pts]
. Scout Biker: Astartes grenade launcher
. Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker Sergeant: Chainsword, Twin boltgun

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout: Combat knife
. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

++ Total: [127 PL, 2000pts] ++



Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 04:18:42


Post by: NH Gunsmith


senor_flojo wrote:
Got to properly try out the codex this weekend, fielded an infantry-only army to try out some units.

- The Sanguinary Priest wasn't worth its points. I was able to heal some SG with it, but the +1 strength isn't really that important anymore with red thirst being what it is. But maybe I used it wrong. I kept it around SG the entire match, so maybe it's better around other units.


The only thing I have my Sanguinary priest for is that he is a dirt cheap (for a Marine) HQ choice, and I keep him near my Devastators to keep them shooting longer. He halfway makes his points back if he brings a single Devastator with Missile Launcher or Lascannon back to life. Well worth it to me.

My last game I had to use a CP to teleport my Vanguard Vets back towards my lines to take out a big blob I wasn't able to shoot to pieces, and even bringing one more Vet back to the game is a big help, with each Vet throwing 4 attacks (with Unleash Rage) it adds up. Also the +1 Strength is huge when playing against Death Guard, and can mean the difference between doing enough wounds to kill a unit of Plague Marines or not.

He won't always be useful, but he always is included in my take all comers list.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 05:08:07


Post by: THUNDERHAMMER


Is a priest worth it over a novitiate if the hq slot doesnt need filling?


I feel like the red thirst kind of gives us that buff regardless and hes just there to die


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 07:30:04


Post by: p5freak


 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Is a priest worth it over a novitiate if the hq slot doesnt need filling?


I feel like the red thirst kind of gives us that buff regardless and hes just there to die


Do you think he's worth buffing DC with chainsword to S5, so they wound T4 on 2+ or T5 on 3+ with red thirst ?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 08:41:37


Post by: senor_flojo


I would imagine wounding on a 3+ against T4 and a 4+ on T5 isn't nearly as bad as it was before we got red thirst. A squad of cc scouts can be a threat now with 11 attacks per 5.

I don't do mathhammer, but I look at 4+ being 50% chance of wound--not too shabby. With a 3+, you're only improving roughly 16.6%, which may or may not be worth 69+ points.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 08:52:16


Post by: p5freak


The question was if the sang priest is worth the points over a sang novitiate. Thats only a 14 pts. difference. I think increasing the chance to wound by 16,7% for a 15 model DC squad is well worth 14 pts.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 10:12:45


Post by: NH Gunsmith


p5freak wrote:
The question was if the sang priest is worth the points over a sang novitiate. Thats only a 14 pts. difference. I think increasing the chance to wound by 16,7% for a 15 model DC squad is well worth 14 pts.


Yeah, well worth it for a 14 point increase. I see no reason to ever take the Novitiate.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 11:10:50


Post by: senor_flojo


p5freak wrote:
The question was if the sang priest is worth the points over a sang novitiate. Thats only a 14 pts. difference. I think increasing the chance to wound by 16,7% for a 15 model DC squad is well worth 14 pts.


Ah, I'm just thinking outright. Good point with the 14 points. But you're still having to work with keeping him in the bubble. I suppose revives may make it worthwhile, but you're realistically getting one or two revives out of it.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 12:29:07


Post by: p5freak


Its no problem to keep the priest within 6" of a 15 model unit. Just daisy chain them. Even if the priest fails his charge his aura will still work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still can't decide which psychic powers to use for my Libby dread himself. Quickening is nice but it's a 7. Wings of sanguinius is only 5 and is a safe charge after deepstriking with the dread drop pod but no D3 additional attacks. The +1 attack is wasted on himself. I have mixed feelings about the shield. Only 5+ seems weak. If it's FNP that would be great.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 15:56:03


Post by: bobafett012


I find priests now, not to be very useful and the points are better spent else where since the red thirst essentially does what a priest used to do. In almost every case I find i'd just rather have more models that can actually kill stuff.

I tried out apothecaries extensively in my DW army and just came to the conclusion that the resurrecting portion of their special ability is not very good at all if that's why your taking them.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 16:05:12


Post by: p5freak


You can't add more models to a 15 model DC unit. Also a sang priest gives S+1, apothecary does not.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 16:10:57


Post by: Martel732


Priests give an anti-elite buff in a game with a million ways to kill elites efficiently. And zero ways to kill hordes.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 16:23:29


Post by: Bremon


I’ll definitely be testing out a Sang Priest, and I’ll likely never take a novitiate. I’m still at a loss as to how to loadout my Vanguard Vets. Storm shield, claws, and double chainsword are the only thing they can do better than DC. Double chainsword is reasonable for getting clogged up with tarpits; on the charge DC can match it. Storm shield is good for tanking overwatch from a tank, etc. if you charge with hammers. Claws make them a premier unit for shredding MEQ but DC with power swords do the same job fairly well anyway. At this point I don’t know what to do.

Similar story for Sang Guard; DC and VV both hit harder; while the SG have more staying power. I’m not sure how to properly leverage that staying power as at this point I need to wipe things and move on, because the next turn the enemy falls back and shoots. More bodies seems as advantageous as more durable bodies in that situation so I’m still struggling to fill a niche with the idea of SG. So far DC seem like the most versatile and effective unit of the three. It really surprises me they have as many weapon options as they do.

Sang Ancient Warlord with relic banner flying in with SG seems to be the main way to capitalize on their strengths, and with only 2 attacks they really need those rerolls.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 16:35:44


Post by: Martel732


SG are awesome vs multiwound targets for sure.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 16:55:37


Post by: bobafett012


Bremon wrote:
I’ll definitely be testing out a Sang Priest, and I’ll likely never take a novitiate. I’m still at a loss as to how to loadout my Vanguard Vets. Storm shield, claws, and double chainsword are the only thing they can do better than DC. Double chainsword is reasonable for getting clogged up with tarpits; on the charge DC can match it. Storm shield is good for tanking overwatch from a tank, etc. if you charge with hammers. Claws make them a premier unit for shredding MEQ but DC with power swords do the same job fairly well anyway. At this point I don’t know what to do.

Similar story for Sang Guard; DC and VV both hit harder; while the SG have more staying power. I’m not sure how to properly leverage that staying power as at this point I need to wipe things and move on, because the next turn the enemy falls back and shoots. More bodies seems as advantageous as more durable bodies in that situation so I’m still struggling to fill a niche with the idea of SG. So far DC seem like the most versatile and effective unit of the three. It really surprises me they have as many weapon options as they do.

Sang Ancient Warlord with relic banner flying in with SG seems to be the main way to capitalize on their strengths, and with only 2 attacks they really need those rerolls.


I like the Sanguinor with a squad of SG. 3 attacks a piece, re-rolls to hit, backed up by a very powerful HQ that can fallback towards a different unit and charge again.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 18:48:59


Post by: Bremon


I feel like needing a named character to maximize effectiveness is a trap to fall into and isn’t a notch in the “pro” column for SG.

I also don’t see how they excel against multi-wound targets. For a similar price point I don’t see how DC or VV with hammers don’t out damage SG against armour or elite infantry. I love the models and will buy some but from trying to formulate a plan for them they seem to sit in an awkward spot. I’m not convinced by their D3 damage weaponry vs hammers on cheaper bodies.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 19:31:54


Post by: Martel732


Because a DC with a hammer is, in many cases, 4 times less durable than SG. I get to swing the sword a lot more times over the course of the game.

Also, if I'm sending in one hammer unit with descent of angels, I want it to be as tough as possible so it can press the attack.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 20:10:13


Post by: PandatheWarrior


Sanguinary guard body is so underpriced it's ridiculous. You are paying 23 points for a flying primaris with a 2+. With rerolls integrated. Luckily their weapons options don't allow them to get a cheap loadout.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 20:46:19


Post by: Bremon


Martel732 wrote:
Because a DC with a hammer is, in many cases, 4 times less durable than SG. I get to swing the sword a lot more times over the course of the game.

Also, if I'm sending in one hammer unit with descent of angels, I want it to be as tough as possible so it can press the attack.


“In many cases” means solely against bolter and other small arms fire, yes? Shooting them with bolters is as stupid as shooting terminators with bolters. My issue with them comes from the line of thought that they have fewer and lower quality attacks, meaning they need to survive to another turn just to accomplish what they were meant to do in the turn they arrived. DC have weight of attacks, and 3 damage rather than D3. Not only that, but they are easily enough points that they are a prime target for plasma and other high powered weaponry, which are extremely common. I realize you’re speaking from experience and I’m speaking from a hypothetical position but I’m trying to justify spending the cash on two boxes before being disappointed afterwards lol. I’m already unconvinced that the box of VV I have are worth bulking upt next to the 3 boxes of DC waiting to be built.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 21:21:46


Post by: Martel732


The bigger guns are engaging preds and redemptors in my list. There is a lot of ap 0 in the game. There just is.

Vanguards with storm shields have a great niche, imo
Cheap, mobile storm shields. They are how we engage dark reapers and the like.

Plasma is a problem for sg which is why i send the vv after plasma and the sg after not plasma.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 22:27:40


Post by: U02dah4


Martel732 wrote:
Because a DC with a hammer is, in many cases, 4 times less durable than SG. I get to swing the sword a lot more times over the course of the game.

Also, if I'm sending in one hammer unit with descent of angels, I want it to be as tough as possible so it can press the attack.


4 times? What a rediculous claim.

Under optimal circumstances AP0 1D fire a 4 man SG has 8W 2+ vs 5 man DC 3+ 6+FNP

DC 37.5% less durable not 75%

Conversely vs D2 DC are 20% more durable

DC become 16% more durable again vs AP5 but this.is to rare to make much of a difference


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 22:42:16


Post by: bobafett012


The banner does help out SG's survivability, where as it doesn't affect DC.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 23:02:39


Post by: Karhedron


U02dah4 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Because a DC with a hammer is, in many cases, 4 times less durable than SG. I get to swing the sword a lot more times over the course of the game.

4 times? What a rediculous claim.

No Martel is quite correct. It takes almost 4 times as much small-arms fire to kill an SG than a DC (it would be exactly 4 times apart from the DC's 6+++).

DC fail saves on a 1 or a 2 whereas SG only fail on a 1 so DC takes wounds from AP0 D1 weapons at twice the rate as SG. Couple the fact that SG have 2 wounds apiece and it does almost 4 times the amount of shooting to bring them down.

Of course if your opponent is firing his basic weapons at SG and not overcharged plasma, you are probably going to win anyway.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/20 23:06:43


Post by: Martel732


The key with SG is not give them that choice. People will often double tap another target rather than fire singles at SG as well.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 02:34:14


Post by: Bremon


They’ll double tap another target rather than fire singles at the SG, while they’ll happily pour small arms fire into SG? I can assure you I see enough plasma that they don’t have to choose and they’d rather pour singles into the 35 point SG than double tap 13 point tac marines or 18 point intercessors, etc.

“There is a lot of ap 0 in the game. There just is.” Yes, there is, but basically every other target in a Blood Angels list is a better place for it to be pointed rather than armour and heavy infantry. If you’re dumping copious amounts of small arms firepower into SG then you’re either new to the game, a moron, or you’ve already lost.

Your point about storm shields for engaging dark reapers is well taken, and I can appreciate, but arguing the way for SG to survive is to play them smart and not give the opponent an option...yikes. The people I play against have as much grey matter floating in their skulls as I do, and their MO also involves not giving me options.

To this point I’m still unconvinced that I’d be better served by an SG unit that can beta strike 3 turns later after taking 2 turns to destroy their original target rather than a DC unit that can beta strike to a lesser extent one turn later because their initial target was obliterated the turn they dropped.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 04:27:59


Post by: casvalremdeikun


For Sanguinary Guard, is there a reason I am missing that I should take an Encarmine Axe over a Power Fist? I know the -1 to hit sucks, but with Rerolls of all to-hits, it has to be pretty decent. Nevermind the fact that the Power Fist from that kit is one of the coolest looking Power Fist bits in existence.

Any reason to give them any special pistols? Seems like the Angelus Boltgun is pretty great on its own.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 05:05:34


Post by: Audustum


Bremon wrote:
They’ll double tap another target rather than fire singles at the SG, while they’ll happily pour small arms fire into SG? I can assure you I see enough plasma that they don’t have to choose and they’d rather pour singles into the 35 point SG than double tap 13 point tac marines or 18 point intercessors, etc.

“There is a lot of ap 0 in the game. There just is.” Yes, there is, but basically every other target in a Blood Angels list is a better place for it to be pointed rather than armour and heavy infantry. If you’re dumping copious amounts of small arms firepower into SG then you’re either new to the game, a moron, or you’ve already lost.

Your point about storm shields for engaging dark reapers is well taken, and I can appreciate, but arguing the way for SG to survive is to play them smart and not give the opponent an option...yikes. The people I play against have as much grey matter floating in their skulls as I do, and their MO also involves not giving me options.

To this point I’m still unconvinced that I’d be better served by an SG unit that can beta strike 3 turns later after taking 2 turns to destroy their original target rather than a DC unit that can beta strike to a lesser extent one turn later because their initial target was obliterated the turn they dropped.


The way I view it comes to this: SG are as tough as TDA Marines. Even against overcharged plasma they get a 5+. So unless you fight AP-4 or greater, no real difference on durability.

DC are power armor. That 6+ FNP ain't doing much.

So drop the BA lenses and just ask: for what I want this unit to do in this list, do I want MEQ or TEQ?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 05:30:12


Post by: Bremon


That’s a good point. They’re basically flying vanilla termies that lose the invul. I’m not sure if that makes me like them more or less. It’s a shame they couldn’t take the storm shields away from the vanguard vets lol.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 07:26:54


Post by: p5freak


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
For Sanguinary Guard, is there a reason I am missing that I should take an Encarmine Axe over a Power Fist? I know the -1 to hit sucks, but with Rerolls of all to-hits, it has to be pretty decent. Nevermind the fact that the Power Fist from that kit is one of the coolest looking Power Fist bits in existence.


Where do you get reroll of all to hits for sang guard ? You need dante for that. The sang guard ancient can only reroll failed hit rolls for himself if he is within 6" of a BA warlord.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Any reason to give them any special pistols? Seems like the Angelus Boltgun is pretty great on its own.


Inferno pistols are great against high toughness targets. There is no CC weapon that can match it.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 08:29:02


Post by: casvalremdeikun


p5freak wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
For Sanguinary Guard, is there a reason I am missing that I should take an Encarmine Axe over a Power Fist? I know the -1 to hit sucks, but with Rerolls of all to-hits, it has to be pretty decent. Nevermind the fact that the Power Fist from that kit is one of the coolest looking Power Fist bits in existence.


Where do you get reroll of all to hits for sang guard ? You need dante for that. The sang guard ancient can only reroll failed hit rolls for himself if he is within 6" of a BA warlord.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Any reason to give them any special pistols? Seems like the Angelus Boltgun is pretty great on its own.


Inferno pistols are great against high toughness targets. There is no CC weapon that can match it.
Heirs of Azkaellon works whenever they within 6" of the BA Warlord. So if they are near the Warlord, Sanguinary Guard go nuts. They don't need Dante for that.



Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 09:20:23


Post by: niv-mizzet


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
For Sanguinary Guard, is there a reason I am missing that I should take an Encarmine Axe over a Power Fist? I know the -1 to hit sucks, but with Rerolls of all to-hits, it has to be pretty decent. Nevermind the fact that the Power Fist from that kit is one of the coolest looking Power Fist bits in existence.

Any reason to give them any special pistols? Seems like the Angelus Boltgun is pretty great on its own.


No, the axes are a situational swap that are only better than the swords against enemies that are both t4-5 and have 5+ or worse armor. So like...orks...daemons...genestealers...the dark eldar freak units? It would be an alright swap option except that it costs extra. If you're worried about higher T go for fists and wound everything ever on 2's thanks to thirst, and the swords handle everything else. I think they made a mistake on the blade encarmine costs and maybe forgot to lower them to force weapon costs, and even then I still wouldn't pay extra for the axe. I'd still just jump straight to the fist.

Although it is kind of exciting to think that the post-codex FAQ might see even better SG costs if they decide to lower those.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 09:37:37


Post by: p5freak


 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Heirs of Azkaellon works whenever they within 6" of the BA Warlord. So if they are near the Warlord, Sanguinary Guard go nuts. They don't need Dante for that.


You're right, i read it wrong.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 10:59:16


Post by: Razerous


What's better... scouts or SG in melee? Just curious how the cost breaks down?

Assuming the scouts take chainswords for that lovely +1A?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 14:31:17


Post by: Martel732


I've also got a lot of shooting in my list. The stuff that is really good vs SG is gonna get shot. At least, that's the plan.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 15:27:51


Post by: wuestenfux


Razerous wrote:
What's better... scouts or SG in melee? Just curious how the cost breaks down?

Assuming the scouts take chainswords for that lovely +1A?

Well, I'd take DC in all circumstances. Normally, I rune two units of 10 DC accompanied by Lemartes or Astorath.
Scouts and SG are not a must-have in a BA list.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 15:51:28


Post by: Razerous


 wuestenfux wrote:
Razerous wrote:
What's better... scouts or SG in melee? Just curious how the cost breaks down?

Assuming the scouts take chainswords for that lovely +1A?

Well, I'd take DC in all circumstances. Normally, I rune two units of 10 DC accompanied by Lemartes or Astorath.
Scouts and SG are not a must-have in a BA list.
I think you're missing my point.

Having a unit like DC or SG to murder things is good.

But you're going to field 0, 1 or 3+ squads of scouts in either case. So I'm curious how effective they are per-point. May be worthwhile the leverage the fairly awesome faction trait of +1 to wound on a charge.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 16:59:14


Post by: PandatheWarrior


Definitely the best troop other than intercessors as obj camper.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 17:08:59


Post by: Martel732


Interesting. I haven't made a list with DC in it yet. Too many other interesting options.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 17:27:26


Post by: PandatheWarrior


Martel732 wrote:
Interesting. I haven't made a list with DC in it yet. Too many other interesting options.


How ? It's like either DC or SG.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 17:30:55


Post by: Martel732


Vanguards. There's a lot of reasons to use vanguards over DC. Dark reapers, for starters.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 18:52:12


Post by: Bremon


What are some other reasons?


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 18:55:07


Post by: Martel732


Anything you want to drop close to that got nasty AP on their weapons. Half the Eldar army if you think about it. IG plasma guns. 3++ on a mobile unit is really nice in my experience.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 19:07:55


Post by: Bremon


That makes a lot of sense to me. I’ll likelt magnetize my VV but I will definitely try to use a handful of shields in the squad to soak overwatch enabling the squad to harass heavy weapons teams and tanks that have been left the slightest bit exposed.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 19:10:08


Post by: Martel732


I actually like 5 of 8 with shields and the two without have lightning claws or is the sarge with a hammer.


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 21:41:06


Post by: Red__Thirst


I run a Company Veterans (with Jump Packs) squad rocking Storm Shields in my list and they are going to eventually be 5x models strong with 4x Storm Shields, 2 with Chain Swords, 1 with Power Axe, and 1 with Power Fist along side their chain swords. The sergeant is armed with a Thunder Hammer and an Inferno Pistol.

Keep them near something that allows for a re-roll or hit them with Unleash Rage for added fun. I like them as much as Vanguard Veterans as they have the same stat line, and the added ability to help intercept a wound for a nearby character.

I actually go against the grain here and field a Sanguinary Novitiate with this squad with a jump pack (index entry) and keep it close to the squad. I can use the intercept wound ability on a nearby Character and attempt to bring that slain model back on the following turn ideally. Doesn't always work, obviously, but it has kept that squad more of a combat threat for longer in the vast majority of games. Bringing back an extra ablative wound is always a good thing.

I may consider bringing a Vanguard Veteran Squad, and a small Assault squad with Plasma Guns as a flanker/harasser along with a pair of plasma pistols on the Sergeant.
I'm also strongly considering running an Inceptor squad with Plasma Exterminators as well for dealing with screens (average 12 hits on 6 D3 rolls) and they can drop far enough back to provide some added fire support to a priority target or obliterate screens with decent effectiveness.

Lots of fun ideas bouncing around. We'll see which ones work well in actual practice.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius @ 2017/12/21 21:43:53


Post by: Martel732


I dont' like the company vets as they'll likely be illegal in 9th.