Seeing as we got a Kult of Speed Battleforce in the store get ready for Kult of Speed to be a hot list in the new Ork Codex. Color me red and happy about it too since half my army is KoS.

I hope so, my ork army is painted red. XD But no really... hope it's not just bikers because I have 0 bikes in my Ork force. It's all trukks, boyz, wagons and walkers!

It's pretty much a given that the Ork codex will feature the main Ork klanz, with the Evil Sunz being the 'Kult of Speed' equivalent.

I hope so, different rules for factions will hopefully be good for orks, though I am cautiously optimistic as while the rules may help us history is on the side of GW does not really care much for orks or more specifically the modeling team making kits gives us great models, but the rules team does not want orks to be competitive outside of mass blobs of boys. I hope they address durability of some units and cost of weapon that are never taken even with the chapter approved rules... because a rokkit being short ranged and due to the need to advance always hitting on 6's is really only worth a couple points same for big shootas which average when advancing .5 hits per gun.

Will GW pull a awesome 180 and make ork lists have the flexability to use multiple builds and work... maybe. I am hoping so anyway

I hope this will happen. The orks need special rules for each of the different clans. Something like a "red goes fasta" rule, where all evil sunz vehicles move an extra inch or something.
I really hope GW can get some inspiration for the codex. The orks really need it right now.

Eh, I wouldn't look too much into it. That battleforce wasn't exactly speedy. It was painted goff colors, had lootas, and a SAG, which is hilariously bad.

The box set is a decent price overall, I think, but it wasn't terribly evil sunz'y.

I am looking forward to see what they do with ork klans next year. Wonder was evil sunz will be. Even something like +1 to all movements (move, advance, charge) would be pretty nice.

The joke is that even the 8th edition history shows they care little or just don't understand orks. The guy who wrote the faction focus before the index was like "look bow awesome orks are!"by showing us basically nothing but boyz and changes to general rules that favoured everybody. I've been informed that the whole team is working on the ork codex which is never good as almost none of them are said to play orks. If anything we're just gunu get another meme dex rsther than a serious army. Sure you can have fun with orks but the whole comic relief ork only really exists because video games and ork players tending to do more damage to themselves while the official lore of orks tends to show a complex deep lore rich factions with just as much verity as the space marine chapters. I'm sure the avarge guard man pisses himself laughing when Ghaz walks up with half his battalion as a bloody gunk in his powrr claw that's larger than him.

 lolman1c wrote:
The joke is that even the 8th edition history shows they care little or just don't understand orks. The guy who wrote the faction focus before the index was like "look bow awesome orks are!"by showing us basically nothing but boyz and changes to general rules that favoured everybody. I've been informed that the whole team is working on the ork codex...

Who gave you that information?

All I know is, I want Thraka to return to Armageddon. Since he left half the planet has fallen to chaos. See what happens when he leaves!? In all seriousness, I would love to see another war on Armageddon with a heavy emphasis on the orks. Armageddon is Ullanor after all. There is something buried beneath Armageddon that is drawing them there.

pismakron wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
The joke is that even the 8th edition history shows they care little or just don't understand orks. The guy who wrote the faction focus before the index was like "look bow awesome orks are!"by showing us basically nothing but boyz and changes to general rules that favoured everybody. I've been informed that the whole team is working on the ork codex...

Who gave you that information?

He's talking about Reese from Front Line Gaming.

 adamsouza wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
The joke is that even the 8th edition history shows they care little or just don't understand orks. The guy who wrote the faction focus before the index was like "look bow awesome orks are!"by showing us basically nothing but boyz and changes to general rules that favoured everybody. I've been informed that the whole team is working on the ork codex...

Who gave you that information?

He's talking about Reese from Front Line Gaming.

p

No, the Facebook team told me go look it up.

Well, the guy who was sure that orks were awesome is Reese, and the people who said that the entire team is working on each codex was the GW's community team via facebook.

Just for clarification.

I also wouldn't read too much into the the box being called "kult of speed". It's basically all the plastic stuff that's not new (nauts, MANz, flash gits, mek guns) or already in start collecting.

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, the guy who was sure that orks were awesome is Reese, and the people who said that the entire team is working on each codex was the GW's community team via facebook.

I worry about Reese having a bias towards what he runs. Though I do like his list he’s taken in the batreps.

I just hope it doesn’t end up like 7th Edition where the Rules got away from the design team. At this point 8th Orks shooting is very not there, to the point where I take Battlewagons with no weapons except Deff rolla. And no modifiers toshooting make it difficult to run anything except melee blobs. The Dakka stratagem helps a bit but it’s not as much of a fix as people would like.

 Jidmah wrote:
I also wouldn't read too much into the the box being called "kult of speed". It's basically all the plastic stuff that's not new (nauts, MANz, flash gits, mek guns) or already in start collecting.

Ah, yeah. It's been brought up a few times actually. Still an Ork can dream. I really hope we get some love this Ed. I need to get my Kans back on the table and not have to just take them right back off again.

I just hope the boys get what the Nids got....strong internal ballence, good external ballence, and a few things nobody else does.

The Kult of Speed battleforce has been up on the webstore on and off for years. I remember seeing it ages ago in the depths of 7th shortly after the Ork release. I've always had a bit of a laugh at it because two of the most iconic Speed Freak options, the Deffkopta and Warbuggy aren't in the set because the official kits are absolutely ancient and GW doesn't want to promote them.

On the subject of Reecius, let's just say that I don't expect much from the Ork codex when guys like him are providing playtesting. Here's a list of things he said about Orks shortly before 8th hit:

"Burna Boyz are ridiculous"
"Tankbustas are great"
"Dakkajet one of the better shooters in the game"
"You don't see a lot of flyers on the table, but Dakkajets are pretty great"
"Stompas are great"
"Ork Dreads are really good"
"Stompa is worth every point"
"Buggies got dramatically better"
"Skorchas are really cheap"
"Rokkits are so good, they do 3 damage"
"Big Guns and Mek Guns are great"
"3 Lobbas are a fantastic unit"
"The Battlewagon is a beast in melee...excellent unit"
"Battlewagons are super strong, really hard to kill"
"Trukks are really good"
"Lootas...amazing"
"Flash Gitz are phenomenal...really great unit to use Da Jump with"

pinecone77 wrote:
I just hope the boys get what the Nids got....strong internal balance, good external balance, and a few things nobody else does.

Ork Strategem - Roll for additional hits when you roll a 6 to hit, with BS5+

Tyranid Strategem - That whole unit of guys with BS4+ S4 weapons get to shoot again


At this point, I'm just hoping for point drops and decent Clan Rulez.

 Glane wrote:
The Kult of Speed battleforce has been up on the webstore on and off for years. I remember seeing it ages ago in the depths of 7th shortly after the Ork release. I've always had a bit of a laugh at it because two of the most iconic Speed Freak options, the Deffkopta and Warbuggy aren't in the set because the official kits are absolutely ancient and GW doesn't want to promote them.

On the subject of Reecius, let's just say that I don't expect much from the Ork codex when guys like him are providing playtesting. Here's a list of things he said about Orks shortly before 8th hit:

"Burna Boyz are ridiculous"
"Tankbustas are great"
"Dakkajet one of the better shooters in the game"
"You don't see a lot of flyers on the table, but Dakkajets are pretty great"
"Stompas are great"
"Ork Dreads are really good"
"Stompa is worth every point"
"Buggies got dramatically better"
"Skorchas are really cheap"
"Rokkits are so good, they do 3 damage"
"Big Guns and Mek Guns are great"
"3 Lobbas are a fantastic unit"
"The Battlewagon is a beast in melee...excellent unit"
"Battlewagons are super strong, really hard to kill"
"Trukks are really good"
"Lootas...amazing"
"Flash Gitz are phenomenal...really great unit to use Da Jump with"

You know, I really can't think of another high-profile player who had anything nice to say about Orks in the run-up to 8th edition. I wonder how much influence he's actually had in the design of the army.

Index Orks are treated too harshly on Dakka and not harshly enough on other sites. A lot of this comes from the problems with shooting, which are all outlined in the quotes above.

 techsoldaten wrote:
[

Index Orks are treated too harshly on Dakka and not harshly enough on other sites.

Could not agree more on both counts; Orks certainly aren't scary to anyone who has had to pilot the army themselves (way to easy to pick apart and deny). Other sites seem to talk them up like the shining jewel of the index books, and they certainly are not that. For like three editions of the game now, any ork player who does not want to just play a 300 strong mob of boys has been hosed and then left in the cold.

With that said, there are at least two people on this site, who seems like they've made it their life's mission to argue with anyone who even remotely suggests orks need anything but to have all of their points cost cut in half entirely across the board.

Orks are a problem army, but those problems can be solved with some subtle changes, not sweeping enormous buffs.

How is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 davou wrote:
Orks are a problem army, but those problems can be solved with some subtle changes, not sweeping enormous buffs.

I don't think subtle changes are enough, and I also don't think that sweeping enormous buffs will do it either.

Almost all non-character units in our codex have some big problems because of which they don't do what they are supposed to do.
Either they die too fast, you can't field enough of them to build a proper army out of them, they do too little damage for their points or simply have no role to fulfill because other units do it better by a landslide.
On top of that there are some army-wide issues that need to be addressed, like the inability to handle fliers and high toughness values.

If all those problems are looked at one-by-one and fixed, we don't need buffs.

But usually when this is talked about, someone idiot who hasn't played a single game of orks in their life comes into the thread and tells us to stop complaining because boyz and weirdboyz are OP.

Cannot agree more with the above. Boyz are easy to deal with and sre not OP and weirdboyz have 1 good ability that can only be used once or twice per game while other armies can deepstrike turn 1 for half the points.

8th Edition comes out.
Decides Ork Stompa rules look less than terrible.
Finally builds that Ork Stompa model I bought on release day, all those years ago.
Fields Ork Stompa.
Finds Ork Stompa's shooting phase practically useless.
Spends the rest of game charging and stomping.
Puts Ork Stompa back on the shelf.

 adamsouza wrote:
8th Edition comes out.
Decides Ork Stompa rules look less than terrible.
Finally builds that Ork Stompa model I bought on release day, all those years ago.
Fields Ork Stompa.
Finds Ork Stompa's shooting phase practically useless.
Spends the rest of game charging and stomping.
Puts Ork Stompa back on the shelf.

a stompa stomping things? sounds approperate

 Glane wrote:


On the subject of Reecius, let's just say that I don't expect much from the Ork codex when guys like him are providing playtesting. Here's a list of things he said about Orks shortly before 8th hit:

"Stompas are great"
"Stompa is worth every point"

I'd LOVE to see a citation on that. Not saying that you're wrong, but I'm curious of the source. Because while most of those statements were questionable, at best, it perhaps could have been forgiven for being early optimism in the early days of 8th.

But I took one look at stompas and said "dumpster fire". And I'm not sure how anyone could have come to a different conclusion.

 Jidmah wrote:

 davou wrote:
Orks are a problem army, but those problems can be solved with some subtle changes, not sweeping enormous buffs.

I don't think subtle changes are enough, and I also don't think that sweeping enormous buffs will do it either.

Agree to disagree; I'd be very happy with the following changes

Allow ere'we'go to be one or both dice
DakkaDakkaDakka = 6's in shooting are hits no matter negative modifiers.
Ramshackle on a 4+ (or even 5+)
KFF works for units that are clipped
Add + 1 to move for green tide if under 20

Tell you what, I'm really looking forward to a charge 3D6 stratagem - all other melee armies seem to be getting one.

I get a 3D6 charge distance, picking the highest 2, but hell's bells, the sum of 3D6 seems bonkers for assault units. Especially if orks get to reroll it with 'ere we go.

Doesn't do anything to counter falling back, sadly, but joined with da jump would be incredibly effective.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Glane wrote:


On the subject of Reecius, let's just say that I don't expect much from the Ork codex when guys like him are providing playtesting. Here's a list of things he said about Orks shortly before 8th hit:

"Stompas are great"
"Stompa is worth every point"

I'd LOVE to see a citation on that. Not saying that you're wrong, but I'm curious of the source. Because while most of those statements were questionable, at best, it perhaps could have been forgiven for being early optimism in the early days of 8th.

But I took one look at stompas and said "dumpster fire". And I'm not sure how anyone could have come to a different conclusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqeMhNwdRT0

Ork section starts at 26:00

Comments on Ork Walkers start at 33:37

Warning: If you're an Ork player you may feel unreasonable amounts of rage watching this video.

You look forward to it but after CA I worry. It was their chance to show off what orks can do with their codex and they gave us a warlord trait thta gives +1 to strength?! I would have forgiven them for at least +1 to toughness but +1 strength is lazy! If it was in the codex I wouldn't have minded but being in CA, when they should have had an interesting one, is unbelievable. The mob up strat has proven so far to be useful but not in the way gw wanted it to be used for (trust ork players to think of fun and creative ways to use the scrap given to us) and dakka dakka is a joke! On the facebook page when someone was critical showing how it does almost nothing for most troops the team just responds telling us to basically get over it because we can deepstrike 30 boyz into cc with da jump. (Basically an exsact quote). That's like telling BA players to get over being bad in cc because another space marine faction is good at shooting!

I get the feeling that Reece and the rest of the crew at FLG have had access to both the codexes and the indexes for some time and they may either get the two confused or might not have even been told which was which by GW.

Perhaps a sign of things to come in the codex when it drops?

I agree that it is worrying that GW places so much on their opinion (that is undoubtedly coloured) and that there are no dedicated Ork players anymore in the rules team.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I get the feeling that Reece and the rest of the crew at FLG have had access to both the codexes and the indexes for some time and they may either get the two confused or might not have even been told which was which by GW.

Perhaps a sign of things to come in the codex when it drops?

I agree that it is worrying that GW places so much on their opinion (that is undoubtedly coloured) and that there are no dedicated Ork players anymore in the rules team.

The other problem is that because Orks had been out of the competitive scene for so long prior to 8th, there simply weren't many Ork players at the tournament level, which means there wasn't much competitive feedback to give to GW. That's changed a bit in 8th, but as the CA changes show, they still don't really understand the issues. Take the Morkanaut for example; they still don't understand that its ranged loadout is still just not worth firing most of the time, and even with a KFF it's too fragile for the points. Yet they slung a points decrease onto its weapons, including the Kustom Mega Kannon, despite the KMK being undoubtedly the best Mek Gun option we have. Meanwhile the Bubblechucka and Traktor Kannon, both of which are hot garbage, don't get any changes at all.

 Glane wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I get the feeling that Reece and the rest of the crew at FLG have had access to both the codexes and the indexes for some time and they may either get the two confused or might not have even been told which was which by GW.

Perhaps a sign of things to come in the codex when it drops?

I agree that it is worrying that GW places so much on their opinion (that is undoubtedly coloured) and that there are no dedicated Ork players anymore in the rules team.

The other problem is that because Orks had been out of the competitive scene for so long prior to 8th, there simply weren't many Ork players at the tournament level, which means there wasn't much competitive feedback to give to GW. That's changed a bit in 8th, but as the CA changes show, they still don't really understand the issues. Take the Morkanaut for example; they still don't understand that its ranged loadout is still just not worth firing most of the time, and even with a KFF it's too fragile for the points. Yet they slung a points decrease onto its weapons, including the Kustom Mega Kannon, despite the KMK being undoubtedly the best Mek Gun option we have. Meanwhile the Bubblechucka and Traktor Kannon, both of which are hot garbage, don't get any changes at all.

As much as I welcome the points decrease for a weapon that's (versus some -1 armies) 1/6 chance of hurting me or hitting and a 2/3 of doing nothing it also shows (similar to what you said) they don't understand the purpose of the mork! It has all this fancy unbelievably advanced tecknolgy and yet you're lucky if you do 1 or 2 points of damage a turn! It's not half bad if you charge him in but at that point you might as well use his points for 30-60 boyz and a kff mek (they would have double the use). If you look at how he plays in games like dawn of war (only seen videos never played the game myself) it's epic! It's like a Orky version of a tau japanese mech and fire huge blasts of high damage energy while skirting around and charging in for high impact damage! Why don't we have that?

The points changes in cA, in addition, were very disappointing. I know gw and they'll have just copy and pasted from codex with no intention of going back to edit after feedback so this just highlights how orks will get very minimal points reductions. As I have said before, I hink orks are way to expensive for no reason (our shooting for the most part is more expensive than most armies and yet is the most useless) but I wouldn't mind it staying the same as long as it is worth it! For the stompas points it should act like a titan and be able to do as much cc and range damage as any other titan! I've watched games where it has done almost nothing!

 davou wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 davou wrote:
Orks are a problem army, but those problems can be solved with some subtle changes, not sweeping enormous buffs.

I don't think subtle changes are enough, and I also don't think that sweeping enormous buffs will do it either.

Agree to disagree; I'd be very happy with the following changes

Allow ere'we'go to be one or both dice
DakkaDakkaDakka = 6's in shooting are hits no matter negative modifiers.
Ramshackle on a 4+ (or even 5+)
KFF works for units that are clipped
Add + 1 to move for green tide if under 20

This would only serve to make the green tide more powerful and all other army type still useless. It does nothing for dreadmob, kult of speed lists, battlewagon bash, kan walls, non-tide footsloggers or any of the other units without any clear use.
There is no easy way to fix the ork codex without making the green tide army that we have now ridiculous and everything else still worse than that.

 adamsouza wrote:
8th Edition comes out.
Decides Ork Stompa rules look less than terrible.
Finally builds that Ork Stompa model I bought on release day, all those years ago.
Fields Ork Stompa.
Finds Ork Stompa's shooting phase practically useless.
Spends the rest of game charging and stomping.
Puts Ork Stompa back on the shelf.

I agree that on a competitive scene the Stompa does not seem legit. I will try one in a toned down narrative campaign, hope it will turn out to be great.

I am hoping that the codex will be similar to the one the Tyranids got, with Clans being a thing finally. Until then I try to enjoy the 'uphill' battles...

 lolman1c wrote:
For the stompas points it should act like a titan and be able to do as much cc and range damage as any other titan! I've watched games where it has done almost nothing!

Well obviously stompa shouldn't be nearly as good as imperial titan. It costs less than half the points than smallest imperial titan! So no it shouldn't do as much damage as any other titan(apart from ridiculousness of claiming it should do as much damage as any titan which incidentally includes warlord that costs like 4x and in future likely imperator which will be more like 10k) if it costs marketly less.

As it is stompa is one of the cheapest titan class walkers in the game.

tneva82 wrote:


As it is stompa is one of the cheapest titan class walkers in the game.

And it's 100 times worse than a baneblade or an imperial knight. Stompas should cost 450-500 points, and still they'd the suboptimal units.

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


As it is stompa is one of the cheapest titan class walkers in the game.

And it's 100 times worse than a baneblade or an imperial knight. Stompas should cost 450-500 points, and still they'd the suboptimal units.

Yeah but doesn't mean they should be as powerful as warhounds(smallest imperial titan) that costs more than twice as much. As much as lolman might want orks to be broken beyond belief to compensate for them being suboptimal(attitude which has zero connection with idea of having balanced game) doesn't make you should have equally powerful models for half the price.

Or if it's as killy it needs to be very easy to destroy to compensate but funny that survivability is actually the arch-typical orky trait for their warmachines...Not raw killyness but being god damn tough to remove.

(and besides stompa isn't even supposed to be titan equilavent but oversized land raider equilavent in terms of survivability, firepower etc. GW sized up too much so guess knight level is more appropriate but knights are waaaay short of titan levels as well)

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah but doesn't mean they should be as powerful as warhounds(smallest imperial titan) that costs more than twice as much. As much as lolman might want orks to be broken beyond belief to compensate for them being suboptimal(attitude which has zero connection with idea of having balanced game) doesn't make you should have equally powerful models for half the price.

Or if it's as killy it needs to be very easy to destroy to compensate but funny that survivability is actually the arch-typical orky trait for their warmachines...Not raw killyness but being god damn tough to remove.

(and besides stompa isn't even supposed to be titan equilavent but oversized land raider equilavent in terms of survivability, firepower etc. GW sized up too much so guess knight level is more appropriate but knights are waaaay short of titan levels as well)

I don't think you understand just how bad a unit the Stompa is. It is objectively one of (if not the) the worst units point for point in the game. GWs pricing of the model is insulting, honestly.

Have people seen the stuff daemons are rumoured to be getting? 12" pistol flamers with 3 (not D3) autohits. 1 CP to DS any unit with power level 8 or less, 2 CP to DS any unit above that power level. Brims still 3 ppm with T3 and 6++ now apparently. There seems to be a way to add a dice to charge range to make it 3d6 rather than 2d6. People aren't happy in that thread but the leaks sound extremely powerful to me.

The age of Brimstone spam might be gone but the age of the Bloodletter bomb is on the rise. We're gonna have even less reason to take those big expensive units I feel - Battlewagons, Mork/Gorkanauts etc will be focused immediately and we have little to stop it.

I really hope we get more deployment options and other increases to our durability.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I don't think you understand just how bad a unit the Stompa is. It is objectively one of (if not the) the worst units point for point in the game. GWs pricing of the model is insulting, honestly.

I know it's bad but does that mean it should be EQUAL to 2000 pts warhound(titan) when it costs less than 1000?

Lolman suggest so. I disagree. No <1000 pts model should be equal to 2000 pts unit. That or warhound(and consequently other titans) needs to drop down a LOT.

You really think making stompa EQUAL to warhound in killyness is fair for the points? WARHOUND COSTS MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH! How soft target stompa needs to be then for that to be fair? And orks aren't supposed to be glass hammers. Again fluffwise their big walkers have always been known for taking ungodly amount of firepower to take down compared to imperial titans. NOT for being super killyness.

And getting 2000 pts equilavent for <1000 pts is stupid idea from the get go. If you are priced half of other unit shouldn't your abilities to be about half rather than equal? Pretty basic balancing 101. What orks have that would justify getting that big point drop?

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I don't think you understand just how bad a unit the Stompa is. It is objectively one of (if not the) the worst units point for point in the game. GWs pricing of the model is insulting, honestly.

I know it's bad but does that mean it should be EQUAL to 2000 pts warhound(titan) when it costs less than 1000?

Lolman suggest so. I disagree. No <1000 pts model should be equal to 2000 pts unit. That or warhound(and consequently other titans) needs to drop down a LOT.

You really think making stompa EQUAL to warhound in killyness is fair for the points? WARHOUND COSTS MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH! How soft target stompa needs to be then for that to be fair? And orks aren't supposed to be glass hammers. Again fluffwise their big walkers have always been known for taking ungodly amount of firepower to take down compared to imperial titans. NOT for being super killyness.

And getting 2000 pts equilavent for <1000 pts is stupid idea from the get go. If you are priced half of other unit shouldn't your abilities to be about half rather than equal? Pretty basic balancing 101. What orks have that would justify getting that big point drop?

I believe he was referring to "Titanic" archetype rather than an actual Titan so I don't think that's exactly what he was suggesting. If he was then you are correct.

Nobody is trying to argue that a 1k model should act as a 2k model. But it doesn't. It doesn't act as well as a 400 pt model. Do you follow? It's point cost is not justified in either it's damage output or it's durability. Take your fluff BS elsewhere too, fluff =/= balance and should never, ever factor in to it.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nobody is trying to argue that a 1k model should act as a 2k model. But it doesn't. It doesn't act as well as a 400 pt model. Do you follow? It's point cost is not justified in either it's damage output or it's durability. Take your fluff BS elsewhere too, fluff =/= balance and should never, ever factor in to it.

But he's asking for ridiculous amount.

And btw fluff is basically reason 40k is even alive still and the funny thing is THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE SEPARATE! Only lazy newbie game designers in GW studio do not bother to do fluffy and balanced rules. You CAN combine them. It IS possible to have ork giant walkers that are way more durable than imperial equilavents, not as killy(especially in guns) and is balanced.

GW doesn't do it because their developers are junk in terms of ability. If GW would hire good designer they could do that. There's NO REASON WHATSEOVER to ignore fluff. If you want to ignore fluff marines could be T1 S1 WS6+ BS6+ no save. It's only fluff. It can be balanced with that stat as well. And let's make ork boyz S10 T10 guys. That can be balanced as well if we ignore fluff. But you know what's even better? Fluffy balanced rules. Which is 100% possible. There's no piece whatsoever in fluff you actually NEED to really ignore to make balanced game. You know there is after all these things called points to sort it out. Guns more worth than survivability? Ok then ork walker costs less than more gunny less survivable imperial walker. Problem solved.

"it's fluff. doens't matter" is just lazy excuse.

Yes, I think you misunderstood me. Firstly, I was referring to pre CA points costs when it comes to all titans like knights, baneblades and warhound... Now when I mean it should be just as killy I mean it should be worth its points. A warhound in a normal game is an unstoppable monster hence why it was worth the points and is now 2k points. The stompa is basically the same points cost as an entire small teir game list and yet feels less effective than 200pts of boyz.

I in no way want orks to be broken so don't take my words and twist them! The game would not be fun if I didn't have to out effort in to win! (I have a marine army and don't and never will own girlyman for example).

I'd love a 2000 points stompa which is also as killy as a titan. In fact things like the stompa should never appear in games smaller than 5000 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:


It IS possible to have ork giant walkers that are way more durable than imperial equilavents, not as killy(especially in guns) and is balanced.

Why not? Orks weapons work only because ork believe they do. And they have a lot of faith in their biggest walker IMHO the opposite of what you said may have more sense, orks' stuff should never be extremely resilient since they're made from junk, but there's some magic surrounding their weapons that they can actually have the killiest gun in the galaxy What a big mek can create has no limits. The SAG is a perfect example of that, it's a weapon for an infantry model that can be S10+ and AP-5.

 Jidmah wrote:

 davou wrote:

Allow ere'we'go to be one or both dice
DakkaDakkaDakka = 6's in shooting are hits no matter negative modifiers.
Ramshackle on a 4+ (or even 5+)
KFF works for units that are clipped
Add + 1 to move for green tide if under 20

This would only serve to make the green tide more powerful and all other army type still useless.

Did you read it, because I strongly disagree.

 Glane wrote:


Ork section starts at 26:00

Comments on Ork Walkers start at 33:37

Warning: If you're an Ork player you may feel unreasonable amounts of rage watching this video.

Thanks for that. I honestly feel a lot of that was mostly early 8th optimism, but the stompa comments were especially amusing. I honestly don't see how anyone could have made an in-depth analysis of a stompa and concluded that they were 'worth every point.' Then again, maybe he was just reading the indexes as they came, and didn't have time for a good look.

Then again once more, allegedly the FLG folks were the beta testers for this edition, so a lot of this shouldn't have been a surprise......

On the topic of stompas - have codex stompas ever been good? I don't recall them in 5th, they were mediocre in 6th, and the only stompa anyone ever took in 7th was buzzgobs, which honestly wasn't a very good unit, but it was cheap for what you got. Kustom stompas were pretty good, honestly, but no longer.

But again, codex stompas - have they ever been good?

I would guess that a Warhound could take on 5-6 Stompas with the current points costs and rules, but a lot of that has to do with Macro which I think isn't a great rule.

The Stompa is extra sad because not only is it too expensive for regular games but it is also so incredibly outclassed by other big walkers that it is also basically useless in Apocalypse except as a laugh.

I wish we had good Kustom Stompa rules again.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Glane wrote:


Ork section starts at 26:00

Comments on Ork Walkers start at 33:37

Warning: If you're an Ork player you may feel unreasonable amounts of rage watching this video.

Thanks for that. I honestly feel a lot of that was mostly early 8th optimism, but the stompa comments were especially amusing. I honestly don't see how anyone could have made an in-depth analysis of a stompa and concluded that they were 'worth every point.' Then again, maybe he was just reading the indexes as they came, and didn't have time for a good look.

Then again once more, allegedly the FLG folks were the beta testers for this edition, so a lot of this shouldn't have been a surprise......

On the topic of stompas - have codex stompas ever been good? I don't recall them in 5th, they were mediocre in 6th, and the only stompa anyone ever took in 7th was buzzgobs, which honestly wasn't a very good unit, but it was cheap for what you got. Kustom stompas were pretty good, honestly, but no longer.

But again, codex stompas - have they ever been good?

I don't play in a super competitive meta, so take this as you will. I had decent success with the codex stompa in 7th. The supa-gatler was pretty swingy, but the deffkannon and supa-rokkets did good work for me. It also soaked a ton of fire that would have popped my dread and wagons.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

I wish we had good Kustom Stompa rules again.

I was so excited in the FW index that there was a kustom stompa option, but then I read it and realized that basically none of the previous options were available. In fact, I don't know why they even called it a kustom stompa, as it's clearly a big mek stompa.

I would be hype as feth to see another kustom stompa builder. Well, provided the points were reasonable, I suppose.

GW is so inconsistent with what they allow to exist based on what models they have. They axed pretty much all kustom stompa options, but allowed supa skorchas.

Come to think of it, in the base index, big meks on bikes, painboy on bikes, and technically warbossess in mega armor aren't even actual models, but have rules.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I was so excited in the FW index that there was a kustom stompa option, but then I read it and realized that basically none of the previous options were available. In fact, I don't know why they even called it a kustom stompa, as it's clearly a big mek stompa.

I would be hype as feth to see another kustom stompa builder. Well, provided the points were reasonable, I suppose.

GW is so inconsistent with what they allow to exist based on what models they have. They axed pretty much all kustom stompa options, but allowed supa skorchas.

Come to think of it, in the base index, big meks on bikes, painboy on bikes, and technically warbossess in mega armor aren't even actual models, but have rules.

Yeah, the old Kustom Stompa rules were really great. Even if not all builds were good, it was probably the most customizable and flavorful unit in the game. If I remember correctly the Kustom Stompa rules covered about half a dozen pages and it could go from a stripped down Klaw Stompa for less than 500 points to a Stompa with all the guns for ~1400 points. I don't want to complain too much about the standard codex Stompa, as it is really cool that GW made us a (relatively) cheap, big superheavy walker, but at the same time the lack of customization options on the codex Stompa is criminally un-Orky.

I can kind of forgive Forge World for the Kustom Stompa being both bland and bad (all they gave us was ways to make the codex Stompa worse, and not even in ways that are entertainingly bad). All of their Indexes were rush jobs, and GW really seems to be pushing to cut down on options, especially ones that don't have models. I'm not as forgiving of them not including rules for models that they still sell and including rules for models they don't. That's just bizarre. I really hope they come out with a new and better Ork book soon.

Since GW seems to be trying to keep unit entries to one page, I think they should actually have four different Stompa entries, the GW Codex Stompa and three FW Kustom Stompas.
Codex Stompa: A good all-rounder
Klaw Stompa: Melee-focused Stompa with Klaws and/or Mega-Choppas and Mega Charga.
Dakka Stompa: All the guns and some rule that makes it more effective at shooting. Edit: needs a better name, I'm bad at naming things.
Big Mek Stompa: The most durable Stompa with a better repair krew and a KFF, plus weirder weapon options (unfortunately the only weird gun they make right now is the Lifta-Droppa).

Between GW and Forge World they currently produce the models and parts to support all of the above options.

I'm also still hoping to see the Battle Fortress rules they mentioned last summer. I have a feeling that they might make it part of the VDR rules for Open Play, but I'd actually be okay with that. If they do come out with more comprehensive VDR rules for Orks I hope they include the ability to make Gargants. I doubt they'll come out with a resin one* as hardly any Ork players are going to pay $1500 for something they can build themselves, but it would be cool to have a little guidance beyond either just playing it as an Imperial Titan or making up rules totally on our own.
*I think Armorcast made one way back when, but not anymore and it goes for approximately a jillion dollars now.

 matphat wrote:
Seeing as we got a Kult of Speed Battleforce in the store get ready for Kult of Speed to be a hot list in the new Ork Codex. Color me red and happy about it too since half my army is KoS.

I'd suggest preparing to be sad. A Kult of Speed battleforce likely means not updating the vehicles... again.
Rather than a hot list, I'd expect it to be a limp biscuit, with focus on more recent, more expensive kits.

See this is where I disagree with everyone. I think the Kult of Speed Box is amazing. But only because it perfectly summarizes how well GW knows there own army/products. The fact that someone made a conscious decision to include those units and label it "Kult of Speed" shows how little they understand Orkz and how we play. I honestly see this as a foreshadowing of how well the Ork Codex is going to be received. Crap rules, Crap updates, Crap Klan Tactics, phoned in special rules and no updates on the badly needed fixes for 70% of the index. Nobody is taking 12pt rokkitz on anything these days and yet GW stubbornly refused to adjust the point costs.

Someone awhile back mentioned the "Arch Type" of orkz is Tough but not very killy, and went on to explain how our Vehicles were supposed to take a beating and keep on going. And yet if you actually look at previous rules and fluff that is completely false.

The Fluff says our Units should be random but when they function they massively over compensate. A perfect example of this would be the fluff story about the Orkz turning a Rok into a giant SAG and accidentally sucking an entire planet up.

Personally, what I would really like to see from the Ork Codex is a massive HUGE (Bigly) price change for most wargear options. I want someone who plays orkz to write the rules as well. Get rid of the stupid BS that nobody will ever take, like paying 5Pts to give 1 Nob in a squad a 6+ FNP or D3 Burnas for whatever reason.

Finally, the FLG video, I think GW picked these guys to do the BETA test because they can make up complete fething lies on live stream without giving a tell. "Stompa is worth every point" and he didn't even flinch.

SemperMortis wrote:
See this is where I disagree with everyone. I think the Kult of Speed Box is amazing. But only because it perfectly summarizes how well GW knows there own army/products. The fact that someone made a conscious decision to include those units and label it "Kult of Speed" shows how little they understand Orkz and how we play. I honestly see this as a foreshadowing of how well the Ork Codex is going to be received. Crap rules, Crap updates, Crap Klan Tactics, phoned in special rules and no updates on the badly needed fixes for 70% of the index. Nobody is taking 12pt rokkitz on anything these days and yet GW stubbornly refused to adjust the point costs.

Someone awhile back mentioned the "Arch Type" of orkz is Tough but not very killy, and went on to explain how our Vehicles were supposed to take a beating and keep on going. And yet if you actually look at previous rules and fluff that is completely false.

The Fluff says our Units should be random but when they function they massively over compensate. A perfect example of this would be the fluff story about the Orkz turning a Rok into a giant SAG and accidentally sucking an entire planet up.

Personally, what I would really like to see from the Ork Codex is a massive HUGE (Bigly) price change for most wargear options. I want someone who plays orkz to write the rules as well. Get rid of the stupid BS that nobody will ever take, like paying 5Pts to give 1 Nob in a squad a 6+ FNP or D3 Burnas for whatever reason.

Finally, the FLG video, I think GW picked these guys to do the BETA test because they can make up complete fething lies on live stream without giving a tell. "Stompa is worth every point" and he didn't even flinch.

You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.

 Glane wrote:


You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.

Which would be fine, if there was any incentive to falling back and charging, like 'evil sunz vehicles cause d3 mortal wounds on successful charges' or 'evil sunz units gain +1 attack on the charge'. Something like that would be fluffy and useful.

 davou wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 davou wrote:

Allow ere'we'go to be one or both dice
DakkaDakkaDakka = 6's in shooting are hits no matter negative modifiers.
Ramshackle on a 4+ (or even 5+)
KFF works for units that are clipped
Add + 1 to move for green tide if under 20

This would only serve to make the green tide more powerful and all other army type still useless.

Did you read it, because I strongly disagree.

No, I read it alright.

- The 'ere we go buff is a 5% increase in chance to make deep strike rolls, plus you can already have that by spending CP. Small buff for melee units, which is what the green tide is running mostly. Walkers will also benefit, but making charges is not their main problem, crossing the battlefield in one piece is. I really don't think this one is necessary, but would be a quality of life improvement for ork players.
- 6's are hits is nice, but outside of tank bustaz we have next to no units that would be able to kill vehicles reliably through shooting after a -1 hit reduction. Try killing a storm raven, hemlock or blight drone with "just" -1 to hit with orks, and see how that goes. Multiple to hit modifiers are a problem for orks, but all the shooting units need tuning to make hitting on 6+ worthwhile in the first place.
- Ramshackle is a good idea, but doesn't change the fact that you pay 7 points per model transported. For almost every possible unit of passengers, this puts them into Space Marine territory pointswise, except you still don't have 3+ armor and 3+ BS. My issue with transport heavy lists is not that the transports aren't survivable enough. More ofthen than not the problem is that they are so expensive that my model/wound count is too low to survive a turn (or two) of shooting and still have an impact on the game. Another thing that needs to be address is that battlewagons and trukks are essentially fulfilling the same role in the index, so a rework of one or the other is needed. Otherwise the less efficient one will not get used.
- Flat buff to green tide. Anything but large mobs can easily be covered by KFF meks. Trust me, neither BW nor walkers have any trouble staying inside 9" of a KFF, and I have played tons of games with either 8th. Keep in mind that single model units only need to touch the bubble to be inside.
- Cute, but trukk boyz and bw boyz basically get 1" of movement for their pre-charge move out of this, while green tides get faster movement speeds for their weakened mobs. Bringing back bording planks with their +2" to charge moves would be a better solution.

Most units have very specific problems, that need specific fixes. Applying some blanked fixed (or buffs) will not fix the orks as an army. It will just make some stuff more powerful and leave other stuff useless.
For example, none of your changes would help gretchin, runtherds, wazzbom blastajets, mini meks, tractor cannons, flash gits or the stompa, all units in desperate need of changes.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Glane wrote:


You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.

Which would be fine, if there was any incentive to falling back and charging, like 'evil sunz vehicles cause d3 mortal wounds on successful charges' or 'evil sunz units gain +1 attack on the charge'. Something like that would be fluffy and useful.

See, you aren't forging the narrative hard enough englishman. This is what GW has been trying to teach us Ork players for years. Stop trying to be "Competitive" or "Useful" with your ideas and buffs, instead think: "How Can I play my army to make SM and Eldar players feel better". giving us a unit with a useful buff would make Eldar and SM players lose models and that wouldn't be fun for them. Forge that narrative, and the narrative is, Orkz Lose again.

Yeah... the Orks do lose a lot in the lore but they often lose in stupid ways like "it's unbelievable that da hero army wud win da orkz cus we established how unstoppable da orkz are so letz just blow the warbosses head up with physic abilities or some crap". It's childish and I want the orks to win more often!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/05/the-grand-warlord-returnsgw-homepage-post-2/


Ork focus in white dwarf!

If you’ve been looking to begin a Waaagh! of your own, this could well be the perfect time

Interesting... i agree with some stuff but other stuff I disagree with. What do you guys think of this?

I get the feeling the orks might be one of the next codex releases. I hope GW balanced out the rules and points so orks are a more viable army.

I would love a few new units as well but honestly I'll take what I can get.

 BigMekIronGob wrote:
I get the feeling the orks might be one of the next codex releases. I hope GW balanced out the rules and points so orks are a more viable army.

I would love a few new units as well but honestly I'll take what I can get.

I don't know. Currently there are so many issues that are coming from the ruleset itself. I doubt we'll get any real protection against going second vs a gunline blob army.

Just looking at the stompas weapons I feel like they dont do any damage. When we had templates they were ok but now that it uses only BS its next to useless. Couple that with the points cost and.....

Honestly we could go on for ever about the Stompa but it is only one of the poorly priced vehicles. Look at deff dreads... they somehow cost more than dreadnoughts but are less than effective!

SemperMortis wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Glane wrote:


You watch, the Kult of Speed klan tactic is going to be "Can fall back from close combat and still shoot/charge" which GW will say represents their hit and run tactics.

Which would be fine, if there was any incentive to falling back and charging, like 'evil sunz vehicles cause d3 mortal wounds on successful charges' or 'evil sunz units gain +1 attack on the charge'. Something like that would be fluffy and useful.

See, you aren't forging the narrative hard enough englishman. This is what GW has been trying to teach us Ork players for years. Stop trying to be "Competitive" or "Useful" with your ideas and buffs, instead think: "How Can I play my army to make SM and Eldar players feel better". giving us a unit with a useful buff would make Eldar and SM players lose models and that wouldn't be fun for them. Forge that narrative, and the narrative is, Orkz Lose again.

Lol I've played and forged that narrative enough over the years! Hopefully GW are looking to move Orks from the 'comic relief/losers' to the 'comic relief/frighteningly powerful' army style. Like that White Dwarf article I think it's kinda funny how the actual ork aesthetic on the tabletop has changed in terms of Imperial propaganda to what Orks actually are.

To me, in the years I've played, Orks are the army that best make use of and are defined by calculated risks. We have these super powerful weapons that can obliterate the strongest enemies like nothing, or they can backfire and kill the user. That is fun. Having a chance and going out (winning or losing) on a bang is epic. They've captured the mob mentality of Orks in our index, hopefully they can expand on it and focus on our other play styles for the codex.

E - is anyone sending their (or others) ideas to GW at all? It's all well and good that we come up with what we think we need here but if GW never hear of it we can't really blame them when they don't implement it.

I'd like to see;

1. More bang for our buck with our shooting, either through increased volume of fire, more AP, more damage or a mix.
2. More viable ways to play the army. Better internal balance. Make bikes great again. Make transports useful. Make a dread list viable, a shooty list decent and not a joke.
3. A return of the random. I'm happy to take more random weapons if the payoff is worth it and the negative is entertaining.
4. Kunnin stratagems. This is where we will be able to get wins. Stratagems are what brings the army together. I hope we don't get copy/pasted ones from other factions, we need our own identity.
5. Give us a way to effectively deal with all types of enemies - high T, W and Armour is a problem for us at the moment. Drowning them in bodies is neither fun nor effective. Flyers are a nightmare.
6. Make our specialist units specialists and make our characters useful/interesting/able to pay for themselves with their abilities.

I'm sure there's more but that's just off the top of my head.

I agree completely, we literally have ZERO answers to killing T8 models, especially with 2+ saves, unless you count Ghaz as a good answer.

Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies. The fact that a Marine player can put out more shots a turn then an Ork gunline is pathetic.

My biggest pet peeve right now though is the comparison between Ork units and others.

Dreadnought: 132pts
WS/BS 3+ S6 T7 W8 A4 3+ save Has an assault Cannon and a DCCW -3 AP 3 dmg.

DeffDread: 131pts
WS 3+ BS 5+ S5 T7 W8 A2(really 4) 3+ save. Has 2 Big Shootas and 2 DCCWs (This is where the +2 attacks come from to give it 4 attacks base)

So the Dreadnought has the same number of attacks but has S12 to our S10 which is actually relevant now. Has the same number of shots, at a higher strength with better AP hitting on a 3+ instead of a 5+. Ohh and it comes with Smoke Launchers if it really needs to improve its durability for a turn.

So 1pt for SM vehicles is equivalent to +2 Strength, +2 BS, +1 Strength and AP for Dakka and a once a game -1 to hit modifier.

But on the plus side, Deff Dreadz can shoot 6 S5 shots 12inches further.

Now tell me that is fair.

 koooaei wrote:

 BigMekIronGob wrote:
I get the feeling the orks might be one of the next codex releases. I hope GW balanced out the rules and points so orks are a more viable army.

I would love a few new units as well but honestly I'll take what I can get.

I don't know. Currently there are so many issues that are coming from the ruleset itself. I doubt we'll get any real protection against going second vs a gunline blob army.

I don't know that GW will give us any answers for going second against a strong gunline, but I think they potentially could.

We've got a lot of units that can outflank/deepstrike/infiltrate/whatever, which is good when paired with 'Ere We Go. A lot of those units aren't very good right now, but if GW made them better we could start them off the board where they can't be shot.

Clan-specific abilities have a lot of potential to make our units more durable in various ways. Stratagems could also be useful for that. I wouldn't mind seeing them add a lot more special abilities to datasheets as well.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

I don't know that GW will give us any answers for going second against a strong gunline, but I think they potentially could.

Supa Forcefield 2CP : Use this stratagem in the shooting phase of the first turn of the game : Any Kustom force fields in your army has its range doubled and the granted invulnurable save is increased for 4+++ until the end of the phase.

Easy peasy

I like that! For 2cp you get pretty good defence for trukks, ect... I'd invest in som kff bikers if that happened.

A stratagem along those lines would be really good. We might also get a better KFF as a relic.


I am curious to see what they'll do for the Evil Sunz clan ability. If they just copy and paste it from some other fast armies it could benefit footslogging infantry and dreadnoughts more than the faster ork vehicles.

SemperMortis wrote:


Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies.

In 7th we had decent firepower. Lobbas and bikes could provide tons of S5 shots, rokkits were way cheaper (bustas and koptas were competitive, not to mention that every transport had rokkits) and min squad of lootas could do something. Now we basically have KMKs, 1 turn of shootas when they get teleported and smite. Any other offensive ability orks have is basically melee in this edition.

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies.

In 7th we had decent firepower. Lobbas and bikes could provide tons of S5 shots, rokkits were way cheaper (bustas and koptas were competitive, not to mention that every transport had rokkits) and min squad of lootas could do something. Now we basically have KMKs, 1 turn of shootas when they get teleported and smite. Any other offensive ability orks have is basically melee in this edition.

Exactly, if you look though at previous editions, Orkz rolled BUCKETS of dice, it was a long standing joke, tons of MEMEs and what not. Now though? Almost every other army has more shots at better BS and dmg then an Ork army. A static Marine Gunline with 3-4 Asscan Razorbacks can liquidate entire Mobz of boyz every turn. Throw in some Centurions and a Stormtalon and there is literally nothing an Ork dakkaline can do except die in place.

We are supposed to be glass cannons apparently due to our absolutely crap armor saves (even on our super strong vehicles) Our 360pt Nauts have a 3+ save ffs. Ironically, you could DOUBLE the shots of the Gorkanauts Deffstorm Mega shooter and it would still not be as effective as a SM Asscan Razorback. (6D6 = 21 shots, 7 hits, Dual Asscans = 12 shots, 8 hits)

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


Shooting for orkz was pathetically better in 7th where we saw a huge gulf open up between our Dakka and that of other armies.

In 7th we had decent firepower. Lobbas and bikes could provide tons of S5 shots, rokkits were way cheaper (bustas and koptas were competitive, not to mention that every transport had rokkits) and min squad of lootas could do something. Now we basically have KMKs, 1 turn of shootas when they get teleported and smite. Any other offensive ability orks have is basically melee in this edition.

Exactly, if you look though at previous editions, Orkz rolled BUCKETS of dice, it was a long standing joke, tons of MEMEs and what not. Now though? Almost every other army has more shots at better BS and dmg then an Ork army. A static Marine Gunline with 3-4 Asscan Razorbacks can liquidate entire Mobz of boyz every turn. Throw in some Centurions and a Stormtalon and there is literally nothing an Ork dakkaline can do except die in place.

We are supposed to be glass cannons apparently due to our absolutely crap armor saves (even on our super strong vehicles) Our 360pt Nauts have a 3+ save ffs. Ironically, you could DOUBLE the shots of the Gorkanauts Deffstorm Mega shooter and it would still not be as effective as a SM Asscan Razorback. (6D6 = 21 shots, 7 hits, Dual Asscans = 12 shots, 8 hits)

For once, I’m going to mostly agree with you. Although I would say this is more a problem with the fact that Marines have a relatively cheap, resilient platform that can bang out a ludicrous number of decent-quality shots. Razorbacks, and particularly the ones packing a double assault cannon, are too cheap for what they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, if you’re going to line Orks up and try to outshoot Space Marines, you’re doing it wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m not saying Orks shouldn’t be shooting *at all*, but I am saying they shouldn’t be doing it to the exclusion of everything else.

I agree with your 1st and 2nd posts but not the 3rd, every army should have a decent gunline option if it appeals to your playstyle, well except maybe Khorne

But Orkz more so then most deserve this since we were famous for our gunlines, hell we coined the term "Dakka" and yet our "Dakka" is so pathetic that to even attempt a gunline is making the game into a foregone conclusion.

With that Said I do enjoy a well rounded TAC list with shooty options and Melee options,unfortunately, the only Shooty option I can take that won't cost me the game is the KMK Mek Gun, and as highly touted as it is, it still isn't that effective at anything beyond wiping out Tac Marines and the occasional Terminator unit, which is rather sad as last edition I used to wipe out entire Space Marine Squads and Terminator squads with ease if they were foolish enough to group up in range of my KMKs.

 Nazrak wrote:
For once, I’m going to mostly agree with you. Although I would say this is more a problem with the fact that Marines have a relatively cheap, resilient platform that can bang out a ludicrous number of decent-quality shots. Razorbacks, and particularly the ones packing a double assault cannon, are too cheap for what they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, if you’re going to line Orks up and try to outshoot Space Marines, you’re doing it wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m not saying Orks shouldn’t be shooting *at all*, but I am saying they shouldn’t be doing it to the exclusion of everything else.

The thing is, why are you "doing it wrong" if you're trying to outshoot Space Marines? Nids have been given excellent melee options in their dex. They also can run an incredibly effective shooty list. Why shouldn't we be able to?

Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

We all know what DakkaDakka refers to yet it isn't present at all in this edition at the moment. We gots a lack of Dakka boss!

E - Semper gets it.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

I'm only willing to go so far with this; picking up 90 dice is obnoxious. I'd be happy with the current state of things if orks had a bit more consistency.

-1 to hit for advancing with assault, or for firing kombi weapons, or for shooting at a plane or some ravenguard... get rid of that stuff, and suddenly orks are back to still being very inaccurate (missing 1-2-3-4 on the dice face) but their shooting suffers a bit less. And give all vehicles that rely on lots of shooting the option to take grot gunners for a bit of points.

 davou wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

I'm only willing to go so far with this; picking up 90 dice is obnoxious. I'd be happy with the current state of things if orks had a bit more consistency.

-1 to hit for advancing with assault, or for firing kombi weapons, or for shooting at a plane or some ravenguard... get rid of that stuff, and suddenly orks are back to still being very inaccurate (missing 1-2-3-4 on the dice face) but their shooting suffers a bit less. And give all vehicles that rely on lots of shooting the option to take grot gunners for a bit of points.

My opponents would pick up 90 dice and roll them at my ass with a smile on their face, there's nothing obnoxious about it, especially when 2/3 or 5/6 of those dice do nothing.

 davou wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sure the shooting should be inaccurate, but the volume of fire should make up for it.

I'm only willing to go so far with this; picking up 90 dice is obnoxious. I'd be happy with the current state of things if orks had a bit more consistency.

-1 to hit for advancing with assault, or for firing kombi weapons, or for shooting at a plane or some ravenguard... get rid of that stuff, and suddenly orks are back to still being very inaccurate (missing 1-2-3-4 on the dice face) but their shooting suffers a bit less. And give all vehicles that rely on lots of shooting the option to take grot gunners for a bit of points.

The current state of things is that our shooting is terrible even without negative to hit modifiers. Some of that is due to prices of our ranged units, some of it is due to the piss poor durability of ranged units and some of it is due to the fact that the games power curve has gone up drastically for ranged combat while ours has stayed relatively the same. I just gave an example of the difference in shooting. Our Gorkanauts primary weapon The Deffstorm, is about 1/3rd as effective as a Dual Assault Cannon. To make the two weapon systems comparable you would need to change the Deffstorm from 3D6 to 7D6 on average. Our Big shoota is worse across the board when compared to a Heavy Bolter. IG can take a Heavy Bolter for 8pts we can have a Big Shoota for 6. The Heavy Bolter hits more often and has -1 AP. Our Rokkitz would be ok except the only platform worth taking them on (Tankbustas) are over priced AND require a minimum of a Trukk (80+pts) to function and not die turn 1. Our only useful Heavy Support weapon is the KMK which kills its bearer 1/2 as often as it hits or in the case of grots 1/3rd as often as it hits. The Stompa's shooting is such a shambles that we still make fun of Reese to this day for his BS about how good the Stompa is. Killa Kanz, Dreadz and Koptas have no viable weapon because it isn't worth taking any of the weapons available due to low dmg output, shot output or price. Grotzookas went from good to crap this edition.

No, we need a complete overhaul of our ranged combat otherwise its just going to be a game of figuring out what close combat units to take like it currently is.

SemperMortis wrote:
I agree with your 1st and 2nd posts but not the 3rd, every army should have a decent gunline option if it appeals to your playstyle, well except maybe Khorne

Now go look at the ranged weapons on a Lord of Skulls. Compare to stompa.

No more laughing.

There should be no" wrong way" to play a faction.

Asking for shooting comparable to whats currently one of the most broke models is where I stop taking things serioiusly. It would be like a marine player complaining that his landraider doesen't have the same effectiveness in combat as an 'orkonaught.

If we are going to compare the assault back with anything, Lootas are more fair. And even then we have to do it while keeping in mind that the assback is a bit OP for its points BEFORE you have aura buffs.

 davou wrote:
Asking for shooting comparable to whats currently one of the most broke models is where I stop taking things serioiusly. It would be like a marine player complaining that his landraider doesen't have the same effectiveness in combat as an 'orkonaught.

If we are going to compare the assault back with anything, Lootas are more fair. And even then we have to do it while keeping in mind that the assback is a bit OP for its points BEFORE you have aura buffs.

Can't you get like 3 AssBacks for the price of a Gorky with change?

I don't think Semper is asking for something unreasonable here, he wants a fair crack of the whip. It's pretty telling when a "shooty" Ork walker doesn't hit a single shot in a round.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


I don't think Semper is asking for something unreasonable here, he wants a fair crack of the whip. It's pretty telling when a "shooty" Ork walker doesn't hit a single shot in a round.

I agree it should be better than it is now; but that don't change the fact that it shouldn't shoot as good as its points in some broken unit that everyone is currently complaining about.

Give it Grot gunners and always hit on six and its fine; the thing is shooty yes, but it can also split a land-raider in half in close combat; the points cost comes from all that stuff, not just how ti compares to an assaultback in a vacumm.

No! The marine player has a freaking knight which is basically a naut. The knight (i may add) is both better in cc and shooting! The land raider (which is not half bad in cc for what it is) is basically a battlewagon.... so your point is invalid.

The nauts are valued far higher for what they do... the cheapest knight is only a few points off what the mork used to be and yet is really double as effective.

SemperMortis wrote:



Exactly, if you look though at previous editions, Orkz rolled BUCKETS of dice, it was a long standing joke, tons of MEMEs and what not. Now though? Almost every other army has more shots at better BS and dmg then an Ork army. A static Marine Gunline with 3-4 Asscan Razorbacks can liquidate entire Mobz of boyz every turn. Throw in some Centurions and a Stormtalon and there is literally nothing an Ork dakkaline can do except die in place.

I hadn't thought about that, but that's an excellent point. It feels bad when other armies get as many reliable shots, at better BS, often rerolling hits and wounds.

I mean, hell, land raiders or stormtalons, like you said, get like 40 shots a turn. For an ork vehicle to be that effective, it'd have to have 80 shots. And they damn sure don't.

 lolman1c wrote:
No!

Errr, yes?

 lolman1c wrote:


The nauts are valued far higher for what they do... the cheapest knight is only a few points off what the mork used to be and yet is really double as effective.

A knight is 320 points, and another 95 for its gun.... The naught is 270 and its gun is 0. And the knight has to be troops, hq and everything else in its army; stop acting like you can take 2 units and compare them in a vaccum

 davou wrote:


A knight is 320 points, and another 95 for its gun.... The naught is 270 and its gun is 0. And the knight has to be troops, hq and everything else in its army; stop acting like you can take 2 units and compare them in a vaccum

To an extent, I agree with you, knights are substantially better than orkanauts, but are also substantially more expensive.

That being said, the only gun on orkanauts that is free is the deffstorm mega shoota. Cumpulsory rokkits, skorcha/KMB, and 2x twin big shootas, plus the KMK on the mork, add substantial cost.

So, gorkanaut winds up being 356, mork usually 340.

I honestly think that orkanauts are decent-ish for the points you spend for them, except for their ranged, which is pathetically bad.

 davou wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
No!

Errr, yes?

 lolman1c wrote:


The nauts are valued far higher for what they do... the cheapest knight is only a few points off what the mork used to be and yet is really double as effective.

A knight is 320 points, and another 95 for its gun.... The naught is 270 and its gun is 0. And the knight has to be troops, hq and everything else in its army; stop acting like you can take 2 units and compare them in a vaccum

Before CA the Morkanaut was about 370pts which is 40pts off the cheapest Knight you can make. For 40pts you get 6 more wounds and a cc weapon that does straight up 6 pure damage. After CA this how now changed to the Morkanaut being 340pts which puts it about 60-70pts off a knight. If you consider Orks and how we're supposed to (from the way gw pushed it for many editions) have cheaper crappy versions of marine stuff then yes the nauts compare nicely to a knight. And you outright compared the landraider to the nauts you you just blew your own criticism out of the water!

But why shouldn't we compare the landraider to the wagon? They're both designed to be tough transport vechiles with hih wounds and lots of weapons on. Only now in 8th edition people have forgotten that landraiders can even transport troops because their weapons are so effective. Again, following experience from past editions before the nauts and knights even existed, the wagon was ment to be a orky crappy but cheap landraider. We even mostly used landraider models to make battle wagons before we had an official model!

But again, for the benefits the landraider gets there isn't much in the way of difference between points. On avarage you will see about a 50-100pts differentiation in points (knights will a 50-200pts difference depending onmknight as the imperium walkers have a much wider selection on how they want to play). But the landraider could easily beat 2 wagons and I've seen single knights beat 3 nauts.

Dav - if Nauts (of either flavour) were strong they would be taken en masse. The models are too glorious not to. take. They need to be better and I think Semper's suggestion of having the gatling cannon be 6d6 shots AND having a 6s always hit rule would make them somewhat reasonable. They don't need to be tougher, and their melee output as you've said is great (although they often get shot up on the way there) so better shooting wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps 4d6 is the right number of shots, or 12 or something but it needs a buff for sure I think.

As to Ork shooting generally - it's freaking awful. I don't mind this as much on Shoota Boyz who are really more flexible Slugga Boyz, but Lootas? Tankbustas? Burna Boyz? Killa Kans? Koptas? Flash Gits ffs? These are some dedicated shooting units where you pay a premium for a weapon that doesn't work because it's shot by a goddamn greenskin and it's priced and performs as if a marine was shooting it.

That's the issue and I think the reason people are so keen to see it fixed is so we can take more variety of units rather than the same old. We don't wanna be OP but we want to be able to use our awesome models that we've spent donkeys painting without nerfing ourself.

Like my bikes that make me wince every time I place them on the table.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dav - if Nauts (of either flavour) were strong they would be taken en masse. The models are too glorious not to. take. They need to be better and I think Semper's suggestion of having the gatling cannon be 6d6 shots AND having a 6s always hit rule would make them somewhat reasonable. They don't need to be tougher, and their melee output as you've said is great (although they often get shot up on the way there) so better shooting wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps 4d6 is the right number of shots, or 12 or something but it needs a buff for sure I think.

As to Ork shooting generally - it's freaking awful. I don't mind this as much on Shoota Boyz who are really more flexible Slugga Boyz, but Lootas? Tankbustas? Burna Boyz? Killa Kans? Koptas? Flash Gits ffs? These are some dedicated shooting units where you pay a premium for a weapon that doesn't work because it's shot by a goddamn greenskin and it's priced and performs as if a marine was shooting it.

That's the issue and I think the reason people are so keen to see it fixed is so we can take more variety of units rather than the same old. We don't wanna be OP but we want to be able to use our awesome models that we've spent donkeys painting without nerfing ourself.

Like my bikes that make me wince every time I place them on the table.

Well reasoned and said; I agree with most of this.

I never pretended that orks are in a good spot, but I think too many people act like Orks are way too underpowered, instead of recognizing that some other armies are way too overpowered. Bringing orks up to abusive levels that matches that of ass-backs, only makes everything worse. What we need is a small nudge up, combined with several small nudges down in other armies. Orks aren't the on top of the hill right now, but the armies that are are all busy building scaffolding to get just a bit higher up.

A few of armies are hurting right now... But the level of bitching that comes out of ork players drives me into self loathing

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dav - if Nauts (of either flavour) were strong they would be taken en masse. The models are too glorious not to. take. They need to be better and I think Semper's suggestion of having the gatling cannon be 6d6 shots AND having a 6s always hit rule would make them somewhat reasonable. They don't need to be tougher, and their melee output as you've said is great (although they often get shot up on the way there) so better shooting wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps 4d6 is the right number of shots, or 12 or something but it needs a buff for sure I think.

As to Ork shooting generally - it's freaking awful. I don't mind this as much on Shoota Boyz who are really more flexible Slugga Boyz, but Lootas? Tankbustas? Burna Boyz? Killa Kans? Koptas? Flash Gits ffs? These are some dedicated shooting units where you pay a premium for a weapon that doesn't work because it's shot by a goddamn greenskin and it's priced and performs as if a marine was shooting it.

That's the issue and I think the reason people are so keen to see it fixed is so we can take more variety of units rather than the same old. We don't wanna be OP but we want to be able to use our awesome models that we've spent donkeys painting without nerfing ourself.

Like my bikes that make me wince every time I place them on the table.

Exsactly this! I want my models to be worth their points! Then i see 1 knight take out 3 nauts and a few killa kans I don't ever feel like bringing them out again when for the same cost i could swamp the board with hundreds of boyz that I know are cost efficient.... it just feels broken when a unit beats down double their own points... same for my trukks, walkers, ect... they all have equal units that mirror them in the imperium but always win for next to the same points value. I do not mind if a knight blows up my naut turn 1 as long as my naut is worth a fraction of the army but before CA it was +350pts which for an ork might as well be a billion points. Same with trukk... blow my trukk up all you like but if it's some how less durable than a rhino and yet costs about the same or more what is the point? I'd rather have paper thin trukks that cost nothing than the trukks we have now that cost morr than a rhino with 2 storm bolters ( because we lost all the options that also made trukks awesome and unique)

 davou wrote:
Well reasoned and said; I agree with most of this.

I never pretended that orks are in a good spot, but I think too many people act like Orks are way too underpowered, instead of recognizing that some other armies are way too overpowered. Bringing orks up to abusive levels that matches that of ass-backs, only makes everything worse. What we need is a small nudge up, combined with several small nudges down in other armies. Orks aren't the on top of the hill right now, but the armies that are are all busy building scaffolding to get just a bit higher up.

A few of armies are hurting right now... But the level of bitching that comes out of ork players drives me into self loathing

Thanks dude. I guess with regards to nudges up and down, it's better to be top of the pile and go down, rather than be bottom and go up

If we really look at Orks we are probably in the strongest position we've been in for quite a while. The issue is we are a mono-build faction and the units that don't perform well aren't just 'meh' they are a self imposed nerf.

We have like 6 or so units that perform well. The rest needs a serious looking at and they desperately need to be improved. It's variation I crave, I want to run my awesome bikers and for them to have a function and not just be a points sink, I want to run my Burnas in Trukks and I really want my Flash Gits to be decent. I'm sure other players want to run their Killa Kans, Deff Dreads and Nauts. I know people want to be able to run their Stompa.

I really hope this feedback is getting back to GW, although would they listen anyway?

 lolman1c wrote:
Exsactly this! I want my models to be worth their points! Then i see 1 knight take out 3 nauts and a few killa kans I don't ever feel like bringing them out again when for the same cost i could swamp the board with hundreds of boyz that I know are cost efficient.... it just feels broken when a unit beats down double their own points... same for my trukks, walkers, ect... they all have equal units that mirror them in the imperium but always win for next to the same points value. I do not mind if a knight blows up my naut turn 1 as long as my naut is worth a fraction of the army but before CA it was +350pts which for an ork might as well be a billion points. Same with trukk... blow my trukk up all you like but if it's some how less durable than a rhino and yet costs about the same or more what is the point? I'd rather have paper thin trukks that cost nothing than the trukks we have now that cost morr than a rhino with 2 storm bolters ( because we lost all the options that also made trukks awesome and unique)

Yea I couldn't agree more and I too am annoyed that we seem to get "just as expensive but nowhere near as good" version of imperial things.

Give orks +1 to hit if they remain stationary?

helps the units that can hunt armour, with reasonably short ranged weapons once they get close enough - without really allowing the slug & choppa or shoota mobs to benefit - without giving up their main reason for existing?

I really hope the dakka jets +1 if you fire at the same unit was a test for orks because a lot of units need it. If every ork unit had that ability (or they gave badmoons/ def skulls that ability) then we coukd easily get our shooting army back. It's a good counter balance because we would wast potentially 30+ shots shooting down 1 squad of marines with lootas but at least it would hit!

leopard wrote:
Give orks +1 to hit if they remain stationary?

helps the units that can hunt armour, with reasonably short ranged weapons once they get close enough - without really allowing the slug & choppa or shoota mobs to benefit - without giving up their main reason for existing?

Useless, Orks move only 5" and are practically always advancing. The only unit this would benefit is Lootas.

Not sure how it helps units that hunt armour when armour can just move out of range forcing the Orks to move and lose the buff? You've said it yourself - our anti-armour weapons are short ranged.

What if every hit roll of a 6 with shootas, heavy shootas and other similar weapons made another roll to hit, which could then proc another roll to hit that can continue indefinitely, in exception to that rule that stops dice from generating more dice multiple times?
Call it moar dakka or something.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What if every hit roll of a 6 with shootas, heavy shootas and other similar weapons made another roll to hit, which could then proc another roll to hit that can continue indefinitely, in exception to that rule that stops dice from generating more dice multiple times?
Call it moar dakka or something.

It would be awesome but since we got the DakkaDakkaDakka strat in Chapter Approved I can't see it being given as a free passive.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What if every hit roll of a 6 with shootas, heavy shootas and other similar weapons made another roll to hit, which could then proc another roll to hit that can continue indefinitely, in exception to that rule that stops dice from generating more dice multiple times?
Call it moar dakka or something.

It would be awesome but since we got the DakkaDakkaDakka strat in Chapter Approved I can't see it being given as a free passive.

Tyranids get an entire extra shooting and we just get 6 to generate more hits.... the 40k lore lootas would be ashamed of the table top orks and blow them off the table.

Orks either need to go back to BS4+ base or get some kind of shooting mob buff.

 davou wrote:
Asking for shooting comparable to whats currently one of the most broke models is where I stop taking things serioiusly. It would be like a marine player complaining that his landraider doesen't have the same effectiveness in combat as an 'orkonaught.

If we are going to compare the assault back with anything, Lootas are more fair. And even then we have to do it while keeping in mind that the assback is a bit OP for its points BEFORE you have aura buffs.

The key difference here is that I am asking for a asscan Razorbacks shooting (100pt model) on a Gorkanaut (340pt model) and furthermore, My ork model won't be able to gain easy buffs in the form of rerolling hits/wounds. 6D6 shots for the Ork model would result in 7 hits on average, against a Marine that would equal about 5 wounds and 2.5 Dead Marines unless they are in cover. That doesn't sound all that impressive nor OP. Now put that same weapon system on a 100pt model and give it easy access to rerolls and its broken, we agree there, but saying its broken simply because of its stats regardless of points cost is ridiculous. Now of course the next obvious point of conflict is that the Naut is paying a lot more pts for that weapon, but it also is significantly more durable and has other shooting options as well as being good in CC. And to that I would point out that this is all very true, but it in no way invalidates the weapon buff because as has been previously pointed out, Nauts are not optimal units, nor are they even close.

I believe I did a survey once awhile back and Asked people if they would gladly take a Naut with ONLY its CC weapon and a reduction in points equal to the cost of the ranged weapons it possesses currently. That means the Naut would cost almost 100pts less and everyone said Yes. why? because the shooting is so piss poor that simply removing those points actually makes it a better unit.

Orks nauts worth 250 points. Period. They can be very good in close combat but since they're slow best case scenario they will fight 1-2 turns per game, usually against targets that are not the appropriate ones since it's easy to avoid them. Shooting is optional.

Like all the other orks walkers they need a 30-40% discount in terms of points cost.

When I field the gorkanaut I also bring 2-3 BWs and 0-6 killa kans, best quality about the big guy is that it soaks all the anti tank in the world for two turns. That's currently its only purpose, not very impressing for 356 points. In fact with my kind of list I should probably take the morkanaut instead, since it will soak the same amount of firepower without doing anything anyway but I wouldn't have to bring a big mek to shield it, letting me save some points.

I think that orkanauts either need a substantial points cut or straight-up double shots across the board.

And hell, they did both for leman russes, maybe there's a chance for our terrible, terrible walkers.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I think that orkanauts either need a substantial points cut or straight-up double shots across the board.

And hell, they did both for leman russes, maybe there's a chance for our terrible, terrible walkers.

I would love to be optimistic, but don't hold your breath

Honestly, I think Orks should just get BS 4+ standard for a couple reasons:

- It helps dedicated ranged units a lot and mitigates to hit penalties
- Increasing the BS has a similar effect to increasing the number of shots

For example, a shoota with assault 2 on a BS 4+ model averages one hit per turn. But a shoota with assault 3 and BS 5+ averages one hit per turn. The only difference in this case is the number of dice the player had to roll.
Increasing the ballistic skill also makes one shot weapons (rokkits) more reliable without contriving more shots per turn for them.

Doing it this way could also just be easier to balance since they will be more comparable to other factions.

Also, keep in mind that BS and attacks are an abstraction. An attack is not necessarily one shot: it could be one burst or several seconds of auto fire. The BS is just the chance of success for that attack. So, orks are less accurate but they shoot so much more in one attack to make up for it.

P.S. Flash gits should get BS 3+ because all they do is shoot all day. Plus it'll help with the fact they have heavy weapons.

And if anyone thinks this will make Orks an unfluffy gunline, here's how Bad Moons fight: (according to the 40k Wiki)

"Bad Moons are more likely to engage their foes at range than most other Orks, punctuating their raucous cackling with the fire of their long-ranged weapons. Bad Moons prefer to kill with their extravagant and deafening guns. Therefore, Bad Moons often have many Flash Gitz, who set up across the battlefield before the fighting starts in earnest and lay waste to anyone who comes into their fire lanes. Bad Moons are usually capable melee combatants, but prefer to fight at range. As such, if they find themselves too close to use their guns effectively, Bad Moons sometimes reposition themselves to other convenient positions where they can continue firing their guns unimpeded."

I've been a big advocate for giving Orks a BS increase ever since they were nerfed back in 3rd edition.

Other possible solutions:
* Double the number of shots most Ork weapons get. It will simulate them firing recklessly, and help them counter their BS deficiency.

* Give them easy access to characters or wargear that grant re-roll misses and +1 to hit.

* Give their HQs increased BS, just like EVERY other factions HQs. The greatest Ork warriors survive countless battles without ever learning to fire a gun as well as an Imperial Guardsman recruit.

* Give dedicated shooting units, like Lootas, Tankhunters, etc.. better BS.

* Grot Snipers: Grots are cowardly and fight from range, have decent BS, and Orks have zero sniping options currently.

I've been a big advocate for giving Orks a BS increase ever since they were nerfed back in 3rd edition.

Other possible solutions:
* Double the number of shots most Ork weapons get. It will simulate them firing recklessly, and help them counter their BS deficiency.

* Give them easy access to characters or wargear that grant re-roll misses and +1 to hit.

* Give their HQs increased BS, just like EVERY other factions HQs. The greatest Ork warriors survive countless battles without ever learning to fire a gun as well as an Imperial Guardsman recruit.

* Give dedicated shooting units, like Lootas, Tankhunters, etc.. better BS.

* Grot Snipers: Grots are cowardly and fight from range, have decent BS, and Orks have zero sniping options currently.

Overall, I agree. But I feel that giving orks a better BS across the board would be better than just more shots because it would be tedious to roll that many dice. Especially if you get to re-roll.

Also, speaking of character stats, Tau commanders get a 3+ WS for some reason, while everything else is 5+. Meanwhile Ork Warbosses are 5+ BS...

I have just go to a local tournament today. 16 players ,3 orks. The top player was an ork, the last player was an ork too.

The last player used like 50 Stormboyz, 3 Battlewagongs (My Company Master in Terminator Armour killed with his Thunder Hammer one un two rounds of combat), 3 units of 6 Kommandos, 30 boyz and a bunch of other stuff like a Mek, a Weirdboyz, Tankbustas, etc...
The one that won the tournament (And we had a Brimstone+Magnus List, Mortarion, three Eldar, one spamming Dark Reapers, unintentionally because he just camed back to the hobby 3 months ago after 10 years and he had like 30 dark reapers from 2nd edition, and a Tyranid list with a good bunch of Dakkafexes and Mortal Wound spam) ran I believe 120 boyz, like 60 Stormboyz, 2 Gorkanauts (Or Morkanauts) Warboss and other things.

Yeah boyz spam is super powerful. But everything else just needs work.

It's not even super powerful. You are just banking on your opponent not taking enough anti-infantry weapons

 adamsouza wrote:
It's not even super powerful. You are just banking on your opponent not taking enough anti-infantry weapons

Pretty much this. It's the same idea for our walker lists except for the fact that our walkers can't hope to match the damage output of those boyz blobs and make it across the board. The only real leg up our walkers have is our nauts actually hit pretty damn hard against high toughness targets in CC.

Get a gork into cc and you will delte most things (apart from 1 time I rolled 1s and 2s against everything in cc against a simple guardsman). Really for their points the nauts should have to same amount of cc attacks and bs WS 2+ to counter their 5+BS

I asked on facebook a while ago and WH Community confirmed that they are going to give special rules to the klans.