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Post by: demontalons
Final warhammer community sneak peek
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-units-codex-thousand-sonsgw-homepage-post-2/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/22/faction-focus-the-thousand-sonsgw-homepage-post-2/
Starting this thread because the preview of the thousand sons codex is at 6 GMT(1pmEST) Thursday on warhammer live.
So far warhammer community has confirmed that no new models will be released just a porting over of the tzaangors range to 40k as well as a tzeentch monster beast.
Aspiring sorceror a can take psychic powers other than smite
3 disciplines with 18 total powers. Most likely heretic astartes, a thousand sons specific one and tzeentch demons
Reroll 1s on the invulnerable saves is out. I didn’t catch what new aura we got.
Legion Trait sounded like +6″ spell range (first cast per model).
Dark Matter Crystal (a relic) allows you to remove a unit close to the bearer from the board and redeploy the unit via deep strike.
Dark Hereticus is still in and there are plenty of more spells.
Aspiring Sorcerers can take other spells (unsure if you can take it on top of Smite or if you drop Smite).
Glamour of Tzeentch spell gives one of your unit -1 to hit protection.
Doombolt spell does some damage and reduces target units move.
Temporal Manipulation is another spell but I have no idea of what it does.
Tzaangor Shaman is an elite choice and not HQ. The Shaman can reroll a Psychic test (probably the Elixir from AoS).
Tzaangor Enlightened can take bows and shoot magical arrows that auto-wound on to hit rolls of 6+. Assault 1d3 shots.
Lord of Forbidden Lore Warlord Trait give an additional spell.
There is a stratagem that allows a unit to set up in the webway or something like that. Deep strike. Works on Tzaangors at least.
Veterans of the Long War is still in!
Mutalith Vortex Beast buffs nearby units. Like reroll charge rolls if you’re in the 6″ aura.
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Post by: Astmeister
Is it already known that you can use Tzaangor Skyfires also? Until now they just mentioned Tzaangor Enlightened.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Astmeister wrote:Is it already known that you can use Tzaangor Skyfires also? Until now they just mentioned Tzaangor Enlightened.
Yes
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Post by: Mymearan
Astmeister wrote:Is it already known that you can use Tzaangor Skyfires also? Until now they just mentioned Tzaangor Enlightened.
It was confirmed on Facebook.
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Post by: Astmeister
Cool cool cool cool cool. Also the Gaunt Summoner?
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Post by: Mr.Church13
It's weird. They kept linking to the Summoner in some of the Chaos Daemons articles and yet he's not in the codex at all that I can find.
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Post by: HorticulusDK
The Gaunt Summoner, while being a Daemon itself, is a Tzeentch Arcanite / Everchosen unit (so Mortals faction), and he is tied to AOS (in the lore) as the Nurgle Daemons engines are tied to 40k.
BTW the Skyfire were confirmed on Facebook ? Great ! I only saw the Enlightened being mentioned !
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Post by: Mr.Church13
HorticulusDK wrote:The Gaunt Summoner, while being a Daemon itself, is a Tzeentch Arcanite / Everchosen unit (so Mortals faction), and he is tied to AOS (in the lore) as the Nurgle Daemons engines are tied to 40k.
BTW the Skyfire were confirmed on Facebook ? Great ! I only saw the Enlightened being mentioned !
I was just saying it was wird because it was linked to in a 40K specific article.
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Post by: Yodhrin
HorticulusDK wrote:The Gaunt Summoner, while being a Daemon itself, is a Tzeentch Arcanite / Everchosen unit (so Mortals faction), and he is tied to AOS (in the lore) as the Nurgle Daemons engines are tied to 40k.
BTW the Skyfire were confirmed on Facebook ? Great ! I only saw the Enlightened being mentioned !
From the army list on WHC, it looks like they just called the unit Enlightened and gave them two equipment loadouts, since they're listed as Enlightened but have bows.
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Post by: Imateria
I notice the Shaman is an Elite choice, so the worry that he was an HQ and you could take an army of just Tzaangors has been disproved.
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Post by: Galas
A shame. TS needed a cheap HQs more than the fear of some people of Codex:Tzaangors and friends.
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Post by: anticitizen013
Galas wrote:A shame. TS needed a cheap HQs more than the fear of some people of Codex:Tzaangors and friends.
I feel the same. I would have liked it to be an HQ.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Imateria wrote:I notice the Shaman is an Elite choice, so the worry that he was an HQ and you could take an army of just Tzaangors has been disproved.
Not sure why there was any worry, it being a HQ didn't mean you'd have to take only it and other Tzaangor.
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Post by: Nvs
Was there any mention of a repack to include 40k bits for the new Tzaangor kits? Rifles instead of bows for example to go with the pistols and chainswords instead of sword and shield?
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Post by: andysonic1
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Post by: andrewm9
Interesting army list. Mostly not marines, which I am slowly warming up to. Also of note is psychic powers on the lesser sorcerers. That is cool.
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Post by: Nvs
Well that answers the question about the bows. Disappointed to only see 1 unit of scarabs and 1 unit of rubrics.
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Post by: anticitizen013
Hold on a second... anyone notice this?
HQ <--
Magnus the Red
– Warlord – Lord of Forbidden Lore
– Warptime, Death Hex, Weaver of Fates <--
– Infernal Gateway
Note bold things. Discuss.
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Post by: Galas
And aspiring sorcerers for Rubrics and Scarab have spells now.
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Post by: Stumbling Snake
anticitizen013 wrote:Hold on a second... anyone notice this?
HQ <--
Magnus the Red
– Warlord – Lord of Forbidden Lore
– Warptime, Death Hex, Weaver of Fates <--
– Infernal Gateway
Note bold things. Discuss.
I noticed this too, I'm super happy to see that we're keeping the Dark Hereticus psychic powers and seemingly gaining some more to boot! Also, the Daemon Prince has "Gaze of Fate" which is one of the best spells from the new Tzeentch Daemons psychic discipline!
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Post by: anticitizen013
The thing that is boggling my mind is that he is under HQ.
I wonder if that's just a typo or just a way for organizing on the site/ease of reading... I'm pretty sure he will remain LOW but that would be super weird
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Post by: Stumbling Snake
anticitizen013 wrote:The thing that is boggling my mind is that he is under HQ.
I wonder if that's just a typo or just a way for organizing on the site/ease of reading... I'm pretty sure he will remain LOW but that would be super weird
Typo, they just confirmed he's still a LoW on the twitch video.
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Post by: Daedalus81
andrewm9 wrote:Interesting army list. Mostly not marines, which I am slowly warming up to. Also of note is psychic powers on the lesser sorcerers. That is cool.
It's really just them putting as many things in to showcase. The changes so far seem like it will be even easier to build marine lists.
And did I miss that they have a deepstrike strat now, too?
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Post by: nintura
Every Thousand Sons Psyker gets an additional 6" to their range.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Magnus lost rerolls to 1s. Yikes.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Yes, but what does he get in return?
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Post by: Daedalus81
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Post by: nintura
They said he's slightly more shooty in the psychic phase. That's it.
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Post by: tneva82
andrewm9 wrote:Interesting army list. Mostly not marines, which I am slowly warming up to. Also of note is psychic powers on the lesser sorcerers. That is cool.
Well with beta smite rule that makes sense since you are paying for access to smite that keeps getting weaker and weaker the more units you take.
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Post by: the_scotsman
tneva82 wrote: andrewm9 wrote:Interesting army list. Mostly not marines, which I am slowly warming up to. Also of note is psychic powers on the lesser sorcerers. That is cool.
Well with beta smite rule that makes sense since you are paying for access to smite that keeps getting weaker and weaker the more units you take.
If Aspiring Sorcs are still mini-smites, there will be little reason to ever cast it with them if they can take the new tson power list. Id rather use them for buffs or other offensive powers that would be crappy if you took them on one of your key psykers like ahriman.
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Post by: Stumbling Snake
the_scotsman wrote:tneva82 wrote: andrewm9 wrote:Interesting army list. Mostly not marines, which I am slowly warming up to. Also of note is psychic powers on the lesser sorcerers. That is cool.
Well with beta smite rule that makes sense since you are paying for access to smite that keeps getting weaker and weaker the more units you take.
If Aspiring Sorcs are still mini-smites, there will be little reason to ever cast it with them if they can take the new tson power list. Id rather use them for buffs or other offensive powers that would be crappy if you took them on one of your key psykers like ahriman.
Aspiring Sorcerers are getting new powers. One they previewed today was giving a friendly squad -1 to hit. Sounds pretty great so far!
Having a DSing stratagem and dropping a huge blob of Tzaangors sounds fun too.
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Post by: Ysclyth
Lost re-roll 1s to hit or reroll 1s on invos, or both?
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Post by: Xeones7
Any news on the vortex beast?
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Post by: Daedalus81
Didn't get to see it do much. Don't recall if it shot, but I think not. I'll go back and rewatch later.
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Post by: aracersss
rumors from hightimesontheeasternfringe's website:
Reroll 1s on the invulnerable saves is out. I didn’t catch what new aura we got.
Legion Trait sounded like +6″ spell range (first cast per model).
Dark Matter Crystal (a relic) allows you to remove a unit close to the bearer from the board and redeploy the unit via deep strike.
Dark Hereticus is still in and there are plenty of more spells.
Aspiring Sorcerers can take other spells (unsure if you can take it on top of Smite or if you drop Smite).
Glamour of Tzeentch spell gives one of your unit -1 to hit protection.
Doombolt spell does some damage and reduces target units move.
Temporal Manipulation is another spell but I have no idea of what it does.
Tzaangor Shaman is an elite choice and not HQ. The Shaman can reroll a Psychic test (probably the Elixir from AoS).
Tzaangor Enlightened can take bows and shoot magical arrows that auto-wound on to hit rolls of 6+. Assault 1d3 shots.
Lord of Forbidden Lore Warlord Trait give an additional spell.
There is a stratagem that allows a unit to set up in the webway or something like that. Deep strike. Works on Tzaangors at least.
Veterans of the Long War is still in!
Mutalith Vortex Beast buffs nearby units. Like reroll charge rolls if you’re in the 6″ aura.
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Post by: Virules
Is the warlord trait for Magnus cast 1 more power or know 1 more power? I'd rather cast one more power.
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Post by: Brian888
The Tzaangors were the MVPs of the Sons army that game. They held on to the last model and kept the Custodes from securing that back objective.
It's BIG that we're keeping Dark Hereticus, and this game demonstrated why. Custodes are very tough nuts to crack with their good inv saves; honestly, I don't think the Sons player was using it nearly enough. Against an army like the Custodes, every psyker should have it so you can situationally strip off their invs and then put the hurt on them. That fight between the Custodes and the SOTs would have gone much differently if the SOT psyker had Hexed them.
Magnus losing his reroll of 1s on his inv save hurts, but hopefully the Glamour of Tzeentch will help with that (I honestly think Eddie kind of threw Magnus away that game).
The Dark Matter Crystal was clutch. I'm impressed with the mobility of the Sons in this new codex. Automatically Appended Next Post:
As mentioned above, it looks like the Mutalith is an inversion of what it does in AoS; instead of debuffing and/or wounding the enemy, it apparently buffs you according to a table. It was hard to tell what its close combat abilities looked like. Apparently, it can also blow up like a tank when it dies, although this one didn't.
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Post by: xeen
All of this sounds really good. The deep strike stratagem and relic is so great. My only concern is if they are going to jack the points for the aspiring sorcerers because they can cast a normal spell now. I mean if they make them 50 points, that will really hurt and may not be worth it as we can only attempt the same spell once.
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Post by: demontalons
I think the asp sorceror will be priced at the normal price of a rubric as in the chaos codex. But yea that relic is ace
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Post by: Brian888
demontalons wrote:I think the asp sorceror will be priced at the normal price of a rubric as in the chaos codex. But yea that relic is ace
It pretty much won Eddie the game.
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Post by: nintura
Brian888 wrote:demontalons wrote:I think the asp sorceror will be priced at the normal price of a rubric as in the chaos codex. But yea that relic is ace
It pretty much won Eddie the game.
I like how it gives mobility. I dont like how it's a replica of Necrons. However, it's going to be a mandatory must have for every Thousand Sons.
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Post by: cuda1179
nintura wrote:Brian888 wrote:demontalons wrote:I think the asp sorceror will be priced at the normal price of a rubric as in the chaos codex. But yea that relic is ace
It pretty much won Eddie the game.
I like how it gives mobility. I dont like how it's a replica of Necrons. However, it's going to be a mandatory must have for every Thousand Sons.
It's basically a clone of the Necron Veil of Darkness relic.
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Post by: Virules
Did they say what the restrictions on the teleport are? Only infantry or something like that?
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Post by: cuda1179
I'm betting it's infantry only. Likely a direct clone of Veil of Darkness.
It would be neat to use this in conjunction with the Chapter Tactic that lets you Deepstrike in. You can either have two large units plop down somewhere and cause havoc. Or, one unit teleport in, wreck face, then teleport out before they get bogged down.
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Post by: Brian888
cuda1179 wrote:I'm betting it's infantry only. Likely a direct clone of Veil of Darkness.
It would be neat to use this in conjunction with the Chapter Tactic that lets you Deepstrike in. You can either have two large units plop down somewhere and cause havoc. Or, one unit teleport in, wreck face, then teleport out before they get bogged down.
A Daemon Prince teleported along with the infantry, and a DP is not itself infantry.
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Post by: BrianDavion
Brian888 wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I'm betting it's infantry only. Likely a direct clone of Veil of Darkness.
It would be neat to use this in conjunction with the Chapter Tactic that lets you Deepstrike in. You can either have two large units plop down somewhere and cause havoc. Or, one unit teleport in, wreck face, then teleport out before they get bogged down.
A Daemon Prince teleported along with the infantry, and a DP is not itself infantry.
no but the necron one is "the caster and 1 infantry unit" so assuming it's the same then yeah a deamon prince and a squad of rubrics teleporting would be workable
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Post by: nintura
BrianDavion wrote:Brian888 wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I'm betting it's infantry only. Likely a direct clone of Veil of Darkness. It would be neat to use this in conjunction with the Chapter Tactic that lets you Deepstrike in. You can either have two large units plop down somewhere and cause havoc. Or, one unit teleport in, wreck face, then teleport out before they get bogged down. A Daemon Prince teleported along with the infantry, and a DP is not itself infantry. no but the necron one is "the caster and 1 infantry unit" so assuming it's the same then yeah a deamon prince and a squad of rubrics teleporting would be workable how many points is the necron artifact? sucks its a relic though...
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Post by: the_scotsman
nintura wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Brian888 wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I'm betting it's infantry only. Likely a direct clone of Veil of Darkness.
It would be neat to use this in conjunction with the Chapter Tactic that lets you Deepstrike in. You can either have two large units plop down somewhere and cause havoc. Or, one unit teleport in, wreck face, then teleport out before they get bogged down.
A Daemon Prince teleported along with the infantry, and a DP is not itself infantry.
no but the necron one is "the caster and 1 infantry unit" so assuming it's the same then yeah a deamon prince and a squad of rubrics teleporting would be workable
how many points is the necron artifact? sucks its a relic though...
....the necron one is a relic too. They got it in CA if I'm not wrong.
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Post by: demontalons
Combined with the DS stratagem you could have a lot of units up in the enemies face very quickly. I’m also excited that demon princes can use demon of tzeentch powers.
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Post by: xeen
Is there any indication of what the point level that was used for the list?
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Post by: anticitizen013
2k (posted somewhere else here).
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Post by: Manfred von Drakken
Really liking what I'm seeing so far, but I would really like to see a psychic Hellbrute option for the Sons.
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Post by: demontalons
It would be nice for a psychic helbrute but I’d also be ok for smaller demon engines. Something like ursarax from 30k
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Post by: Kirasu
Magical bows? What the hell. This is 40k not WFB in space.
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Post by: Formosa
Kirasu wrote:Magical bows? What the hell. This is 40k not WFB in space.
That's exactly what 40k was lol, have we got any other details about the gors on discs yet?
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Post by: Kirasu
Formosa wrote: Kirasu wrote:Magical bows? What the hell. This is 40k not WFB in space.
That's exactly what 40k was lol, have we got any other details about the gors on discs yet?
Yeah if you only remember original 40k. Game has moved in the last 25 years.
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Post by: the_scotsman
Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
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Post by: Kurgash
I mean if it'll kill, don't question it.
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Post by: Nvs
the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
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Post by: Formosa
Kirasu wrote: Formosa wrote: Kirasu wrote:Magical bows? What the hell. This is 40k not WFB in space.
That's exactly what 40k was lol, have we got any other details about the gors on discs yet?
Yeah if you only remember original 40k. Game has moved in the last 25 years.
It hasn't really moved on that much in all fairness, the lore has got a lot more depth, some things have been removed, some thing have been added, it's been tidied up a bit too, but on the whole it's still that Fantasy in space setting, bows are not even the craziest of it, look at harlequins without the 40k goggles on, they are bloody space elf clowns
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Post by: ImAGeek
Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
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Post by: Badablack
The newest Inquisition model released last year has a crossbow that shoots magical stakes.
The bows are fine.
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Post by: tneva82
Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Seeing daemons don't have weapons in the normal sense anyway rifle is just as stupid. It's essence of warp manifested in whatever shape daemon wish. Bloodletters aren't actually swinging with physical steel sword either but pure warp. And the tzeentch ones aren't actually firing steel(or any physical metal) arrows either.
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Post by: Arachnofiend
tneva82 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Seeing daemons don't have weapons in the normal sense anyway rifle is just as stupid. It's essence of warp manifested in whatever shape daemon wish. Bloodletters aren't actually swinging with physical steel sword either but pure warp. And the tzeentch ones aren't actually firing steel(or any physical metal) arrows either.
Erm, tzaangors aren't daemons, they have to use real weapons like everyone else. The bows are certainly enhanced with runes like the inferno bolters and such are, of course.
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Post by: TiamatRoar
Should have called them chain bows and power bows and nemesis bows. Then they'd fit right in!
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Post by: Audustum
Don't Eldar have a relic that's a bow?
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
2 screen shots top left corner.
21 strats at least!!!
Cultists have an invul save at the top of the 1st turn prior to any spells?
Lore explanation on why TS have Helbrutes.
Interesting statement 21 mins in "both armies are aggressive close combat armies"
Still have another 40 mins to get through ill do it tomorrow some time.
2
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
the_scotsman wrote: nintura wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Brian888 wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I'm betting it's infantry only. Likely a direct clone of Veil of Darkness. It would be neat to use this in conjunction with the Chapter Tactic that lets you Deepstrike in. You can either have two large units plop down somewhere and cause havoc. Or, one unit teleport in, wreck face, then teleport out before they get bogged down. A Daemon Prince teleported along with the infantry, and a DP is not itself infantry. no but the necron one is "the caster and 1 infantry unit" so assuming it's the same then yeah a deamon prince and a squad of rubrics teleporting would be workable how many points is the necron artifact? sucks its a relic though... ....the necron one is a relic too. They got it in CA if I'm not wrong. Yep, the VoD is now a relic rather than a piece of wargear. Its also one use only unlike its eariler incarnations where you can use it whenever you want. Which is a fair trade off, I guess. It's one use, but its free. Automatically Appended Next Post: Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go? They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab. Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so... Eh, idk, a big fancy jezzail thing like the transuranic arquebus might look cool on them. Bows are fine though. I don't have any problem with them. Its chaos, its meant to look weird. If you expect to find hard science in a faction that runs on space magic, you've come to the wrong faction and setting. If it were something like necrons or tau, yeah, it would be silly. But chaos? Its understandable.
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Post by: Imateria
No, Kurnous Bow is a relic Shuriken Pistol.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Chaos sorcery is responsible for a lot crazier things than bows that can kill a man in power armor.
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Post by: the_scotsman
CthuluIsSpy wrote:the_scotsman wrote: nintura wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Brian888 wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I'm betting it's infantry only. Likely a direct clone of Veil of Darkness.
It would be neat to use this in conjunction with the Chapter Tactic that lets you Deepstrike in. You can either have two large units plop down somewhere and cause havoc. Or, one unit teleport in, wreck face, then teleport out before they get bogged down.
A Daemon Prince teleported along with the infantry, and a DP is not itself infantry.
no but the necron one is "the caster and 1 infantry unit" so assuming it's the same then yeah a deamon prince and a squad of rubrics teleporting would be workable
how many points is the necron artifact? sucks its a relic though...
....the necron one is a relic too. They got it in CA if I'm not wrong.
Yep, the VoD is now a relic rather than a piece of wargear. Its also one use only unlike its eariler incarnations where you can use it whenever you want.
Which is a fair trade off, I guess. It's one use, but its free.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
Eh, idk, a big fancy jezzail thing like the transuranic arquebus might look cool on them.
Bows are fine though. I don't have any problem with them. Its chaos, its meant to look weird. If you expect to find hard science in a faction that runs on space magic, you've come to the wrong faction and setting.
If it were something like necrons or tau, yeah, it would be silly. But chaos? Its understandable.
That...
is actually a really cool idea. I think I have four of those Jezzails and a transuranic arquebus or two lying around...
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Post by: godswildcard
I do wish they had come up with a rifle sprue for the disc Tzaangors. It could have potentially given the army a unique mobile sniper platform and snipers are cool again in 8th edition.
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
Edit:
And I wonder if they'll give the regular Tzaangors rules for the cool double handed sword in their box. I'd love an excuse to make one of those!
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Apparently they have 3 weapon options and the bow is one of them, but I don't really know. Maybe there's a hidden rifle sprue and GW is keeping it a surprise or something, idk. But anyway, if you really want them to have rifles there's nothing to stop you from converting them. Conversions are a part of the game, after all. If Tzeentch can make homing magical arrows he can make homing magical bullets.
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Post by: nintura
Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
See? I say this over in the other thread and get mounds of salt and nasty replies. Then I get a warning for flaming. Automatically Appended Next Post: Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time. Automatically Appended Next Post: ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
14
Post by: Ghaz
godswildcard wrote:I do wish they had come up with a rifle sprue for the disc Tzaangors. It could have potentially given the army a unique mobile sniper platform and snipers are cool again in 8th edition.
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
Edit:
And I wonder if they'll give the regular Tzaangors rules for the cool double handed sword in their box. I'd love an excuse to make one of those!
The Tzaangor Enlightened is a dual kit and comes with an option for Tzeentchian Spears as well.
117801
Post by: An Actual Englishman
Not sure how giving you the option to use a model or not is a "cash grab". Don't like it? Don't buy it. Leave it's magical bow having booty in the store.
34439
Post by: Formosa
nintura wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
See? I say this over in the other thread and get mounds of salt and nasty replies. Then I get a warning for flaming.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
You instigated those "nasty replies" nintura, you started insulting people who didn't agree with you, so the flame warning was deserved.
35310
Post by: the_scotsman
Nintura, do you have codex leaks then? if so, by all means share them! how do you know that being able to start an AOS army is the only good thing in the codex when all we have is a few hints and vague details from a single battle report?
99970
Post by: EnTyme
godswildcard wrote:
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
When assembled, the disks are basically an elevated 40mm base, so you could use them for pretty much anything up to terminator size. A lot of people bought and Enlightened kit and assemble them on-foot just so they to use the spare disks for other models. It's a pretty good kit.
81037
Post by: nintura
Formosa wrote: nintura wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
See? I say this over in the other thread and get mounds of salt and nasty replies. Then I get a warning for flaming.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
You instigated those "nasty replies" nintura, you started insulting people who didn't agree with you, so the flame warning was deserved.
I threw out no insults directed at anyone thank you. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ghaz wrote: godswildcard wrote:I do wish they had come up with a rifle sprue for the disc Tzaangors. It could have potentially given the army a unique mobile sniper platform and snipers are cool again in 8th edition.
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
Edit:
And I wonder if they'll give the regular Tzaangors rules for the cool double handed sword in their box. I'd love an excuse to make one of those!
The Tzaangor Enlightened is a dual kit and comes with an option for Tzeentchian Spears as well.
Those are actually quite cool looking. Automatically Appended Next Post: the_scotsman wrote:Nintura, do you have codex leaks then? if so, by all means share them! how do you know that being able to start an AOS army is the only good thing in the codex when all we have is a few hints and vague details from a single battle report?
Did I say the only good thing in the codex? I dont believe I did. I was referring to them having bows and no known upgrade sprue (which now we know can have spears). That to me, in my opinion, the only good thing about that is now I can start an AoS army too. Stop putting words in my mouth please.
30005
Post by: demontalons
If the second part of our warlord trait is an invulnerable save To units with none or a +1 to those we have that would be pretty big if it’s a 5++ to those with none, makes helbrutes more viable. If it’s just a 6++ eh it’s not really gonna make a difference on our units
34439
Post by: Formosa
nintura wrote: Formosa wrote: nintura wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
See? I say this over in the other thread and get mounds of salt and nasty replies. Then I get a warning for flaming.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
You instigated those "nasty replies" nintura, you started insulting people who didn't agree with you, so the flame warning was deserved.
I threw out no insults directed at anyone thank you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: godswildcard wrote:I do wish they had come up with a rifle sprue for the disc Tzaangors. It could have potentially given the army a unique mobile sniper platform and snipers are cool again in 8th edition.
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
Edit:
And I wonder if they'll give the regular Tzaangors rules for the cool double handed sword in their box. I'd love an excuse to make one of those!
The Tzaangor Enlightened is a dual kit and comes with an option for Tzeentchian Spears as well.
Those are actually quite cool looking.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:Nintura, do you have codex leaks then? if so, by all means share them! how do you know that being able to start an AOS army is the only good thing in the codex when all we have is a few hints and vague details from a single battle report?
Did I say the only good thing in the codex? I dont believe I did. I was referring to them having bows and no known upgrade sprue (which now we know can have spears). That to me, in my opinion, the only good thing about that is now I can start an AoS army too. Stop putting words in my mouth please.
You threw out several direct insults, your warning was deserved.
Do you have any reading comp at all? (Directly trying to belittle this person and insult there intelligence)
jesus. You're dense. (speaks for itself)
Then you're in the wrong fething thread mate.... did you read the title or not? (low key, but not needed)
That right there wins the internet for the stupidest comment. (again trying to belittle someone and insult there intelligence)
81037
Post by: nintura
Formosa wrote: That right there wins the internet for the stupidest comment. (again trying to belittle someone and insult there intelligence) Their*
81037
Post by: nintura
That's not an insult to correct someone in the hopes they will learn something new.... and the fact that you try to act all superior is made all the better because you don't know the difference in the common English words.
98904
Post by: Imateria
nintura wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
So whats your point? 40K is a Science-Fantasy setting where people runnign around with swords and bows happens at the same time as guys lugging lascannons and missile launchers, and a Tzeentch aligned force like the Thousand Sons is going to have more of the warp trickery going on than most others.
93167
Post by: andysonic1
Jesus christ can we contain the pointless whining about space weaponry to the general discussion thread and keep this one about rumors?
87367
Post by: O'Shovah's Desciple
nintura wrote: Formosa wrote:
That right there wins the internet for the stupidest comment. (again trying to belittle someone and insult there intelligence)
Their*
Boom! Roasted!
92260
Post by: AwesomeSauceGaming
Well I’m super excited about the tzaangor enlightened and shamans being in the codex! Got a couple of the tzeentch arcanites battforce boxes coming in to get cranking.
Been looking for a good way to convert the kairic acolytes to cultists, think I’m going to use some anvil industries pistol hands.
And hey! Already have two mutalith Vortex beasts I’d been using as giant spawn! Looks like everything is coming up Johnny this week!
81037
Post by: nintura
Imateria wrote: nintura wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
So whats your point? 40K is a Science-Fantasy setting where people runnign around with swords and bows happens at the same time as guys lugging lascannons and missile launchers, and a Tzeentch aligned force like the Thousand Sons is going to have more of the warp trickery going on than most others.
Already answered that multiple times above. Not answering it again. In fact, multiple people have answered that. Automatically Appended Next Post: AwesomeSauceGaming wrote:Well I’m super excited about the tzaangor enlightened and shamans being in the codex! Got a couple of the tzeentch arcanites battforce boxes coming in to get cranking.
Been looking for a good way to convert the kairic acolytes to cultists, think I’m going to use some anvil industries pistol hands.
And hey! Already have two mutalith Vortex beasts I’d been using as giant spawn! Looks like everything is coming up Johnny this week!
I love the Tzaangor models and additions to the dex, just don't like the direction GW wants you to play them. But I have other plans.... a large 4 god Bel'akor army. Thousand Sons is done, Emperor's Champion fallen Sisters of Battle up next. Then maybe Death Guard and World Eaters later.
34439
Post by: Formosa
nintura wrote:
That's not an insult to correct someone in the hopes they will learn something new.... and the fact that you try to act all superior is made all the better because you don't know the difference in the common English words.
I know, I just dont care, I am lazy nothing more
Just because I spelled a word wrong, means that you lying is completely fine you did wrong, you then complained about it, lied about it and then tried to curry favour in another thread knowing you did wrong, so no, you lack integrity and honesty and a "spelling mistake" does not cover that up, nice try though Nin
99970
Post by: EnTyme
What part of this discussion is on-topic?
78108
Post by: CoteazRox
Ghaz wrote: godswildcard wrote:I do wish they had come up with a rifle sprue for the disc Tzaangors. It could have potentially given the army a unique mobile sniper platform and snipers are cool again in 8th edition.
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
Edit:
And I wonder if they'll give the regular Tzaangors rules for the cool double handed sword in their box. I'd love an excuse to make one of those!
The Tzaangor Enlightened is a dual kit and comes with an option for Tzeentchian Spears as well.
Damn. Bought those just get three disks for my 1K sorcerers and now I maybe "have" to use them. ;-)
108806
Post by: Brian888
According to Spiky Bits, one of the items revealed yesterday was that the Sons have an ability called "Spire of the Webway" that can be used on Tzaangors and units with Tzeentch and Thousand Sons keywords to teleport them. If this is the actual deep-strike stratagem, then maybe Magnus can use it after all (and he desperately needs protection from gun-heavy armies that can vaporize him in the first turn).
365
Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
At least in the past the guys with swords had chainsaw swords. These are just regular bows and arrows not even space bows and arrows! I mean how long until they just port over the entire Stormcast Eternals range? I mean obviously they're not averse to massacring decades of established fluff so maybe they Advance The Timeline a little bit and hey guess what these new guys showed up after they got brought to life by the Space Emporer's space magic! Hell they could probably just take the fluff from their Warbible or whatever stupid name they're calling army books these days do a find-and-replace for Sigmar with Space Emporer and call it a day. Another codex in the bank - next codex! Or maybe they just add a line at the beginning about how Guilliman finds out that the Space Emporer's real name is Sigmar. Ain't nobody got time for find-and-replace! And those repeater crossbows? They're actually magic repeater crossbows. So -1 AP. For reals brah.
108806
Post by: Brian888
demontalons wrote:If the second part of our warlord trait is an invulnerable save To units with none or a +1 to those we have that would be pretty big if it’s a 5++ to those with none, makes helbrutes more viable. If it’s just a 6++ eh it’s not really gonna make a difference on our units
I don't know if that will be part of our Legion trait (the video suggests the Legion trait is 6" additional range on our spells), but we can get exactly that effect from Weaver of Fates (which will likely port over from the CSM codex).
That additional 6" is better than it may sound, by the way. For example, a lot of our blasty powers (at least from the CSM codex) have an 18" range, which is exactly the range that Shadow in the Warp reaches out to. Adding 6" onto our range lets our psykers blast Tyranids outside of the range of that -1 debuff.
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:At least in the past the guys with swords had chainsaw swords. These are just regular bows and arrows
But...they aren't though? I mean, its obviously magical, being wielded by a blue bird man on a floating disc, who's aligned with the chaos god most well known for sorcery.
Not sure if serious.
110703
Post by: Galas
If you have such a big problem with Bows, just use a tiny bit of greenstuff to give it a small cable or something and BOOM. Powerbow right there.
11298
Post by: anticitizen013
I came here for Thousand Sons rumours. All I got was people bickering about bows in 40k and insulting each others intelligence. I am disappoint. Tzeentch would not be happy.
35310
Post by: the_scotsman
nintura wrote: Formosa wrote: nintura wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
See? I say this over in the other thread and get mounds of salt and nasty replies. Then I get a warning for flaming.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
You instigated those "nasty replies" nintura, you started insulting people who didn't agree with you, so the flame warning was deserved.
I threw out no insults directed at anyone thank you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: godswildcard wrote:I do wish they had come up with a rifle sprue for the disc Tzaangors. It could have potentially given the army a unique mobile sniper platform and snipers are cool again in 8th edition.
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
Edit:
And I wonder if they'll give the regular Tzaangors rules for the cool double handed sword in their box. I'd love an excuse to make one of those!
The Tzaangor Enlightened is a dual kit and comes with an option for Tzeentchian Spears as well.
Those are actually quite cool looking.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:Nintura, do you have codex leaks then? if so, by all means share them! how do you know that being able to start an AOS army is the only good thing in the codex when all we have is a few hints and vague details from a single battle report?
Did I say the only good thing in the codex? I dont believe I did. I was referring to them having bows and no known upgrade sprue (which now we know can have spears). That to me, in my opinion, the only good thing about that is now I can start an AoS army too. Stop putting words in my mouth please.
"This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time."
You literally said that and only that in your quote. In what world is that putting words in your mouth?
108806
Post by: Brian888
anticitizen013 wrote:I came here for Thousand Sons rumours. All I got was people bickering about bows in 40k and insulting each others intelligence. I am disappoint. Tzeentch would not be happy.
99591
Post by: hippyjr
Simple. Paint the middle part of the handle gold, paint the arrow and the rest of the bow glowing blue. Voila! instant power bow. Or bow-saber if you like star wars
Sci Fi!
35310
Post by: the_scotsman
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:At least in the past the guys with swords had chainsaw swords. These are just regular bows and arrows not even space bows and arrows! I mean how long until they just port over the entire Stormcast Eternals range? I mean obviously they're not averse to massacring decades of established fluff so maybe they Advance The Timeline a little bit and hey guess what these new guys showed up after they got brought to life by the Space Emporer's space magic! Hell they could probably just take the fluff from their Warbible or whatever stupid name they're calling army books these days do a find-and-replace for Sigmar with Space Emporer and call it a day. Another codex in the bank - next codex! Or maybe they just add a line at the beginning about how Guilliman finds out that the Space Emporer's real name is Sigmar. Ain't nobody got time for find-and-replace! And those repeater crossbows? They're actually magic repeater crossbows. So -1 AP. For reals brah.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/df/dd/54dfdd58c1825dc555840a5de79513ef.jpg
Here we see an old-fashioned, low tech, immersion breaking miniature with what is clearly a FANTASY sword.
http://www.bitzstore.com/6324-large_default/power-sword-chaos-space-marine.jpg
And here we have a highly advanced, technological, fully immersed into the setting SPACE sword.
Note the addition of the tiny wire, the indicator that the poster here would not have to flip the table and begin smashing miniatures with hammers were it to appear in one of his games of warhammer 40k.
81037
Post by: nintura
the_scotsman wrote: nintura wrote: Formosa wrote: nintura wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
See? I say this over in the other thread and get mounds of salt and nasty replies. Then I get a warning for flaming.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:Nvs wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Nobody bats an eye when space weapons are so inefficient that literally every army is bashing each other with .medieval swords but one magic daemon bow and suddenly omg so unrealistic where did the sci-fi go?
They went out of their way to make a chainsword and pistol sprue for the Tzaangors, they could have done the same with the bows and converted them to rifles or something. It's just a lazy money grab.
Or they threw a bone to the AoS players to port their models over at no cost. All depends how you want to look at things. And to be honest - rifles would look stupid on those models, so...
This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote:Everyone’s running round with swords, axes, maces etc but bows are too medieval?
Those same people are also running around with miniaturized rockets for bullets, lascannons capable of cutting through a foot of metal. force fields, and nuclear weaponry.
You instigated those "nasty replies" nintura, you started insulting people who didn't agree with you, so the flame warning was deserved.
I threw out no insults directed at anyone thank you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: godswildcard wrote:I do wish they had come up with a rifle sprue for the disc Tzaangors. It could have potentially given the army a unique mobile sniper platform and snipers are cool again in 8th edition.
But I like the bows. I wonder if I can take chainswords and pistols and make some flying cc guys?
Edit:
And I wonder if they'll give the regular Tzaangors rules for the cool double handed sword in their box. I'd love an excuse to make one of those!
The Tzaangor Enlightened is a dual kit and comes with an option for Tzeentchian Spears as well.
Those are actually quite cool looking.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:Nintura, do you have codex leaks then? if so, by all means share them! how do you know that being able to start an AOS army is the only good thing in the codex when all we have is a few hints and vague details from a single battle report?
Did I say the only good thing in the codex? I dont believe I did. I was referring to them having bows and no known upgrade sprue (which now we know can have spears). That to me, in my opinion, the only good thing about that is now I can start an AoS army too. Stop putting words in my mouth please.
"This is the only good thing about the whole codex. At least now I can start an AoS army at the same time."
You literally said that and only that in your quote. In what world is that putting words in your mouth?
Damn, you got me. I meant to say out of the "release" and rumored models. Damned TBI messes with my short term. Automatically Appended Next Post: hippyjr wrote:Simple. Paint the middle part of the handle gold, paint the arrow and the rest of the bow glowing blue. Voila! instant power bow. Or bow-saber if you like star wars
Sci Fi!
Lol that's as effective as Sword-Chucks or a Light Saber Whip.
79006
Post by: Nightlord1987
Damn... Everyone hating in Tzzangors, and I've been sitting on this Beastmen box I grabbed for discount a few years ago. I've been trying to fit them into my Death Guard list as Pestigors, with no idea what unit to count them as.
98904
Post by: Imateria
Brian888 wrote:According to Spiky Bits, one of the items revealed yesterday was that the Sons have an ability called "Spire of the Webway" that can be used on Tzaangors and units with Tzeentch and Thousand Sons keywords to teleport them. If this is the actual deep-strike stratagem, then maybe Magnus can use it after all (and he desperately needs protection from gun-heavy armies that can vaporize him in the first turn).
I seriously doubt it. It would be the fifth such stratagem (Caraftworlds, Drukhari, Harlequins and Custodes all have one) and in every case it specifies Infantry and Bikers (and Beasts for the Drukhari which was nice), it would be a significant difference if it allowed Monsters as well.
Yes, I know Craftworlders also have the Cloudstrike Stratagem for their vehicles but you can't use it at the same time as Webway Strike and was a way to give Falcons their abilites back.
On the other hand, it could be like the Daemons Stratagem and specifies the CP cost based on PL.
108806
Post by: Brian888
I almost think the ability to deep-strike Magnus is necessary. He no longer has his reroll, and no longer has that awesome protection from the Changeling. Against any decent shooting army he's toast if the Sons can't go first, and he usually almost a quarter of our points value by himself.
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Nightlord1987 wrote:Damn... Everyone hating in Tzzangors, and I've been sitting on this Beastmen box I grabbed for discount a few years ago. I've been trying to fit them into my Death Guard list as Pestigors, with no idea what unit to count them as.
Either cultists (do deathguard even get those?) or plague zombies, I would think.
108806
Post by: Brian888
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Nightlord1987 wrote:Damn... Everyone hating in Tzzangors, and I've been sitting on this Beastmen box I grabbed for discount a few years ago. I've been trying to fit them into my Death Guard list as Pestigors, with no idea what unit to count them as.
Either cultists (do deathguard even get those?) or plague zombies, I would think.
They do get cultists, yeah.
112618
Post by: Arachnofiend
Imateria wrote:Brian888 wrote:According to Spiky Bits, one of the items revealed yesterday was that the Sons have an ability called "Spire of the Webway" that can be used on Tzaangors and units with Tzeentch and Thousand Sons keywords to teleport them. If this is the actual deep-strike stratagem, then maybe Magnus can use it after all (and he desperately needs protection from gun-heavy armies that can vaporize him in the first turn).
I seriously doubt it. It would be the fifth such stratagem (Caraftworlds, Drukhari, Harlequins and Custodes all have one) and in every case it specifies Infantry and Bikers (and Beasts for the Drukhari which was nice), it would be a significant difference if it allowed Monsters as well.
Yes, I know Craftworlders also have the Cloudstrike Stratagem for their vehicles but you can't use it at the same time as Webway Strike and was a way to give Falcons their abilites back.
On the other hand, it could be like the Daemons Stratagem and specifies the CP cost based on PL.
It cost 2 CP to deep strike the 30 tzaangors, which hints at it working the same way as the Chaos Daemons stratagem. No certainty, of course, we'll have to wait and see.
Brian888 wrote: CthuluIsSpy wrote: Nightlord1987 wrote:Damn... Everyone hating in Tzzangors, and I've been sitting on this Beastmen box I grabbed for discount a few years ago. I've been trying to fit them into my Death Guard list as Pestigors, with no idea what unit to count them as.
Either cultists (do deathguard even get those?) or plague zombies, I would think.
They do get cultists, yeah.
Tzaangors are too big to be cultists, they come on 32 mm bases. Maybe use them as melee-spec'd plague marines?
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Post by: wict01
anticitizen013 wrote:I came here for Thousand Sons rumours. All I got was people bickering about bows in 40k and insulting each others intelligence. I am disappoint. Tzeentch would not be happy.
Seconded. Some serious wallowing going on here.
I’m excited for the codex, can’t wait to give it a try!
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Mutalith does NOT have an invul this was specifically mentioned in the stream.
From the stream Storm bolter from Land Raider shoots at Enlightened, hits with 4 wounds with 3, 3 dice were 4 1 and 6, 2 models removed they have 1 wound.
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Post by: Galas
EDIT: WTF this forum is trolling me.
Tzaangor Enlighteneds have 4 wounds in AoS, 3 if they are on foot. Having just 1 wound in W40K would be a big departure, bigger than Tzaangors going from 2W to 1W.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Galas wrote:EDIT: WTF this forum is trolling me.
Tzaangor Enlighteneds have 4 wounds in AoS, 3 if they are on foot. Having just 1 wound in W40K would be a big departure, bigger than Tzaangors going from 2W to 1W.
Discs add a wound in AoS and Tzaangors in AoS are the "elite" troops, in 40k they are a cheap glass cannon unit designed to do a bunch of damage before dying. Discs don't add wounds to Lords and Sorcs why would they add wounds to Tzaangors?
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Post by: nintura
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Galas wrote:EDIT: WTF this forum is trolling me.
Tzaangor Enlighteneds have 4 wounds in AoS, 3 if they are on foot. Having just 1 wound in W40K would be a big departure, bigger than Tzaangors going from 2W to 1W.
Discs add a wound in AoS and Tzaangors in AoS are the "elite" troops, in 40k they are a cheap glass cannon unit designed to do a bunch of damage before dying. Discs don't add wounds to Lords and Sorcs why would they add wounds to Tzaangors?
no but they should. They already lose their own re-roll unless that's taken away or changed.
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Post by: demontalons
Unless they’re cheap or deployed via DS I’m not sure how anyone’s going to keep them alive to do anything. I
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Post by: Caederes
In AoS, Enlightened and Skyfires have double the wounds of normal Tzaangors, not +1. Even with the role-change for Tzaangors from elite infantry to fodder infantry in 40K, it still seemed a safe bet the Enlightened would at least have 2 Wounds each. I'm incredibly surprised it's not the case, and given the theoretical damage output of at least the bow unit, it sounds like they will be more of a glass hammer unit than anything else which doesn't necessarily bode well for the melee variants - it will all come down to costs.
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense.
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Post by: Guyver 3
Provided known units cost the same then there’s around 350 points left for the mutilath beast, the shaman and 9 Skyfires
Just a ballpark guess but
Mutilath 170 (similar to forge/maulerfeind)
Shaman 80 (similar to herald price)
9 Skyfire 100
I can’t imagine they’re more than they’re 11 points each.
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Post by: Caederes
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense.
Tzaangors don't have to use bolt pistols and chainsword in 40K, they can use their AoS weapons (Tzaangor Blades).
In AoS fluff, the Enlightened and Skyfires are particularly successful/devoted Tzaangors that have proven themselves to Tzeentch and receive rewards from him in the form of daemonic weapons and Disks of Tzeentch.
Thousand Sons' psykers imbue the Rubricae with sorcerous bolts. Tzaangor Skyfires use daemonic bows gifted to them by Tzeentch (again, in AoS fluff).
Seriously, why is this even an argument? Daemonic/magical bows that are guided by fate stretch your imagination too far but hyper advanced races resorting to melee combat doesn't?
Guyver 3 wrote:Provided known units cost the same then there’s around 350 points left for the mutilath beast, the shaman and 9 Skyfires
Just a ballpark guess but
Mutilath 170 (similar to forge/maulerfeind)
Shaman 80 (similar to herald price)
9 Skyfire 100
I can’t imagine they’re more than they’re 11 points each.
When I put the list into Battlescribe I had 408 points left. I doubt the Skyfires are going to be that cheap, maybe the melee Enlightened will be but I can't see Tzaangors with nearly triple the speed and deadly ranged weapons being only a few points more per model. The Mutalith sounds like one of those monsters that will sit around the 200 point mark, which hopefully means we're getting points drops for the Rubrics/Scarab Occult. Now that we know Skyfires only have 1 Wound each though, I'm not as certain anymore.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Truly Thousand Sons threads have birthed some of the dumbest arguments lately. I swear about every 4 posts I find myself sighing and shaking my head.
Tzeench, the Chaos god of.....
Nuff said. Now back to rumors and/or constructive discussion in at least ONE thread?
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
Caederes wrote: Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense.
Tzaangors don't have to use bolt pistols and chainsword in 40K, they can use their AoS weapons (Tzaangor Blades).
In AoS fluff, the Enlightened and Skyfires are particularly successful/devoted Tzaangors that have proven themselves to Tzeentch and receive rewards from him in the form of daemonic weapons and Disks of Tzeentch.
Thousand Sons' psykers imbue the Rubricae with sorcerous bolts. Tzaangor Skyfires use daemonic bows gifted to them by Tzeentch (again, in AoS fluff).
Seriously, why is this even an argument? Daemonic/magical bows that are guided by fate stretch your imagination too far but hyper advanced races resorting to melee combat doesn't?
It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".
Why is this even an argument?
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Caederes wrote: Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The bows would not bother me as much if it were established that the Tzaangors use pre-black powder technology. But the next squad over has autopistols and chainswords. And their space marine bosses have guns that shoot magic bullets. So no, magic bows don't make sense. Tzaangors don't have to use bolt pistols and chainsword in 40K, they can use their AoS weapons (Tzaangor Blades). In AoS fluff, the Enlightened and Skyfires are particularly successful/devoted Tzaangors that have proven themselves to Tzeentch and receive rewards from him in the form of daemonic weapons and Disks of Tzeentch. Thousand Sons' psykers imbue the Rubricae with sorcerous bolts. Tzaangor Skyfires use daemonic bows gifted to them by Tzeentch (again, in AoS fluff). Seriously, why is this even an argument? Daemonic/magical bows that are guided by fate stretch your imagination too far but hyper advanced races resorting to melee combat doesn't?
It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it". Why is this even an argument? Because a wizard quite literally did it. Tzeentch is a big wizard. The bows were given to the Tzaangors by Tzeentch. Ergo, "a wizard did it" is completely valid reason. Why bows and not guns? Idk, why does his mutalith look like a cross between a star nosed mole and an oversized dog? Why the fixation on birds? Tzeentch is weird.
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Post by: Caederes
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".
Why is this even an argument?
Do swords, hammers, axes, maces, claws, giant fists, etc fit thematically into a sci-fi game? Do anime robots fit thematically into a grimdark universe? Do Rough Riders fit thematically into the Astra Militarum forces?
"A wizard did it" literally explains how Rubric Marines fire Inferno Bolts, how Imperial/Chaos space-ships travel, how the Primarchs came to be, how the entire setting of 40K functions, etc. Not the best way to present your argument!
Tzeentch is the God of Magic. Daemons and followers of Tzeentch are noted for using magic. Thousand Sons are noted for using magically-enhanced weaponry (Inferno bolts, force weapons). The most venerated of the Tzaangors are known for using weapons gifted to them by Tzeentch. 2+2=4.
Surely you have to realize how utterly absurd this argument is?
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Caederes wrote:In AoS, Enlightened and Skyfires have double the wounds of normal Tzaangors, not +1. Even with the role-change for Tzaangors from elite infantry to fodder infantry in 40K, it still seemed a safe bet the Enlightened would at least have 2 Wounds each. I'm incredibly surprised it's not the case, and given the theoretical damage output of at least the bow unit, it sounds like they will be more of a glass hammer unit than anything else which doesn't necessarily bode well for the melee variants - it will all come down to costs.
Just a tip apply rules by role not by model. Now if we could talk about the thing we should be talking about.
We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 24 I believe
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Post by: Formosa
AegisGrimm wrote:Truly Thousand Sons threads have birthed some of the dumbest arguments lately. I swear about every 4 posts I find myself sighing and shaking my head.
Tzeench, the Chaos god of.....
Nuff said. Now back to rumors and/or constructive discussion in at least ONE thread?
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Post by: Mchaagen
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 14 I believe
Death Guard have 14 stratagems, CSM have 24.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Mchaagen wrote: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 14 I believe
Death Guard have 14 stratagems, CSM have 24.
Yeah that 14 was a typo : /
Anyways we are some where inbetween I was expecting something more like what DG got we are getting way more.
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Post by: Ahriman21
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Mchaagen wrote: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:We have what looks to be 21 strats, 3 pages as mentioned in the stream. (top left corner) DG only have 15 and CSM has 14 I believe
Death Guard have 14 stratagems, CSM have 24.
Yeah that 14 was a typo : /
Anyways we are some where inbetween I was expecting something more like what DG got we are getting way more.
Holy hell; you said something positive.
SHOCKED!
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Post by: Crimson Devil
Don't fall for it! He's just setting you up for the next meltdown.
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
Caederes wrote: Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".
Why is this even an argument?
Do swords, hammers, axes, maces, claws, giant fists, etc fit thematically into a sci-fi game? Do anime robots fit thematically into a grimdark universe? Do Rough Riders fit thematically into the Astra Militarum forces?
"A wizard did it" literally explains how Rubric Marines fire Inferno Bolts, how Imperial/Chaos space-ships travel, how the Primarchs came to be, how the entire setting of 40K functions, etc. Not the best way to present your argument!
Tzeentch is the God of Magic. Daemons and followers of Tzeentch are noted for using magic. Thousand Sons are noted for using magically-enhanced weaponry (Inferno bolts, force weapons). The most venerated of the Tzaangors are known for using weapons gifted to them by Tzeentch. 2+2=4.
Surely you have to realize how utterly absurd this argument is?
The same argument could justify arming them with magical banana creme pies (for throwing in battle, -1 AP cuz magic) - doesn't make it any less stupid or immersion breaking.
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Post by: Manfred von Drakken
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Caederes wrote: Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
It's not that they stretch my imagination too far. It's that they don't fit thematically. Just looking at them, why would they have bows when they obviously have access to firearms? And if your only answer is "magic" then that's basically a textbook case of "a wizard did it".
Why is this even an argument?
Do swords, hammers, axes, maces, claws, giant fists, etc fit thematically into a sci-fi game? Do anime robots fit thematically into a grimdark universe? Do Rough Riders fit thematically into the Astra Militarum forces?
"A wizard did it" literally explains how Rubric Marines fire Inferno Bolts, how Imperial/Chaos space-ships travel, how the Primarchs came to be, how the entire setting of 40K functions, etc. Not the best way to present your argument!
Tzeentch is the God of Magic. Daemons and followers of Tzeentch are noted for using magic. Thousand Sons are noted for using magically-enhanced weaponry (Inferno bolts, force weapons). The most venerated of the Tzaangors are known for using weapons gifted to them by Tzeentch. 2+2=4.
Surely you have to realize how utterly absurd this argument is?
The same argument could justify arming them with magical banana creme pies (for throwing in battle, -1 AP cuz magic) - doesn't make it any less stupid or immersion breaking.
Can you guys take this elsewhere, please? This 'debate' is neither News nor Rumors: now it's just annoying the crap out of those of us who WANT News and/or Rumors.
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Post by: Virules
Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.
Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.
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Post by: Formosa
Virules wrote:Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.
Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.
People care about different things, for some its the fluff, then game, others its different, dont be so dismissive of what they care about just because you dont care, I disagree with what they are saying and am happy to poke a bit of fun at it.
Annnnyway back on topic, do we know yet if we have any decent anti tank outside of vehicles?
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Ahriman21 wrote:citation for enlightened being 1 wound a piece? I didn't notice that.
Re watch the stream at 1:56:00 when the stormbolter could be a hurricane bolter since 6 shots is firing at the Enlightened 6 shots 6 hits, 4 wounds (2s and 3s removed) S4 weapon, at least 1 save (6,4,3,3) 2 models removed. Hard to do with screen caps cause I would need like 6.
Upon further review I think he was shooting the Skyfires with a twinlinked heavy bolter (6 shots). Which means still 1 wound but T 5.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Formosa wrote: Virules wrote:Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.
Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.
People care about different things, for some its the fluff, then game, others its different, dont be so dismissive of what they care about just because you dont care, I disagree with what they are saying and am happy to poke a bit of fun at it.
Annnnyway back on topic, do we know yet if we have any decent anti tank outside of vehicles?
The Skyfires are decent anti tank/monster with prescience and a reroll 1s your looking at an average of 6 armor saves against anything they wound on 5s. Thats only single shots, double that if they get 2 shots or d3 shots. 12 armor saves is nothing to scoff at.
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
Virules wrote:Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.
Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.
Calling for people to be permanently banned for discussing stuff you disagree with/don't care about. Wow. Stay classy.
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Post by: Imateria
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Ahriman21 wrote:citation for enlightened being 1 wound a piece? I didn't notice that.
Re watch the stream at 1:56:00 when the stormbolter could be a hurricane bolter since 6 shots is firing at the Enlightened 6 shots 6 hits, 4 wounds (2s and 3s removed) S4 weapon, at least 1 save (6,4,3,3) 2 models removed. Hard to do with screen caps cause I would need like 6.
Upon further review I think he was shooting the Skyfires with a twinlinked heavy bolter (6 shots). Which means still 1 wound but T 5.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote: Virules wrote:Permaban everyone crying about magic or bows in 40k.
Never ceases to amaze me how people on Dakka can waste pages of a thread rambling about stupid BS no one cares about.
People care about different things, for some its the fluff, then game, others its different, dont be so dismissive of what they care about just because you dont care, I disagree with what they are saying and am happy to poke a bit of fun at it.
Annnnyway back on topic, do we know yet if we have any decent anti tank outside of vehicles?
The Skyfires are decent anti tank/monster with prescience and a reroll 1s your looking at an average of 6 armor saves against anything they wound on 5s. Thats only single shots, double that if they get 2 shots or d3 shots. 12 armor saves is nothing to scoff at.
I think it's already been said they are D3 shots.
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Post by: Arachnofiend
Skyfires will be a must-take as long they're competitively priced. With rhinos no longer necessary to move our units up the board we are free from the restraints of vehicle support for our army... Our enemies will shoot their lascannons at single wound models and by Tzeentch they will like it!
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Post by: Sasori
Things are starting to look more positive, much better than the index for sure.
I'm really curious how well Tzeentch Daemons are going to integrate with the Thousand Sons.
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Post by: Lorek
This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
Lorek wrote:This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.
So, I guess this thread is intended for discussion of the rules only and not the models or fluff? If so, apologies for the off topic.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Lorek wrote:This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.
Oh, thank god.
Now, 21 strats (we already know 2) what is the likely hood we get ALL the generic CSM Strats?
Could we get any Daemon Strats?
Does anyone think they might have made the Heavy Bolter D2 for the Custodes? (this would make Skyfires 2 W)
Do you think Skyfires/Enlightened will have the option to hove it?
Will the Mutalith have all CC buffs or will it have some ranged buffs as well do you think?
Will the Rubrics get a Points drop if so by how much? (personally I think they are going to make AS and SOS full fledged Sorcs with 1 spell and full smite)
If you want to bitch about things you don't like go here
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/748275.page
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Post by: SilverAlien
Question: were the skyfires being used on foot or on disc? Do we know if they will have a non disc option?
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
SilverAlien wrote:Question: were the skyfires being used on foot or on disc? Do we know if they will have a non disc option?
They were all on Discs, As of right now I believe they can be brought on foot in AoS no clue if we can get them on foot.
Re-watched the video again looks like Skyfires get 1 attack each, (4 models 9 attacks, Discs give 1, Tzaangors get 1 each, Twistbray gets 2)
Edit: Nope never mind he rolled the Discs separately looks like 2 Base attacks on Skyfires, and Thier bows have AP of -1
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Post by: cuda1179
I play both TS and Grey Knights. While I would LOVE to up the psychic game of the TS, the GK player in me wants to cry foul.
No way in heck should any squad leader in a psychic-heavy list be a full-on psycher when even GK librarians (supposedly one of the best Marines psychers) are totally gimped.
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Post by: nintura
cuda1179 wrote:I play both TS and Grey Knights. While I would LOVE to up the psychic game of the TS, the GK player in me wants to cry foul.
No way in heck should any squad leader in a psychic-heavy list be a full-on psycher when even GK librarians (supposedly one of the best Marines psychers) are totally gimped.
GK Psykers have two powers, smite plus their special. Before, 1k Sons only had smite light. This only brings them to par, with a little bit of a buff allowing them to pick their power. But we dont even know how big the list will be they can pick from. It could be as small as 2. GK's also have far more in their army.
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Post by: Lorek
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Lorek wrote:This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.
So, I guess this thread is intended for discussion of the rules only and not the models or fluff? If so, apologies for the off topic.
Nice snark. No, you missed the point. This wasn't aimed at you at all, it was the posts on page four that were no relevant to the codex at all.
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Post by: cuda1179
nintura wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I play both TS and Grey Knights. While I would LOVE to up the psychic game of the TS, the GK player in me wants to cry foul.
No way in heck should any squad leader in a psychic-heavy list be a full-on psycher when even GK librarians (supposedly one of the best Marines psychers) are totally gimped.
GK Psykers have two powers, smite plus their special. Before, 1k Sons only had smite light. This only brings them to par, with a little bit of a buff allowing them to pick their power. But we dont even know how big the list will be they can pick from. It could be as small as 2. GK's also have far more in their army.
Par?????? TS got the smite "boosts" on tests of 10+, everyone else is on 11+. GK only have Smite light as well. It also applies to their characters. Know of any other psychic HQ in the game that is limited to smite light? That's the point I'm trying to make. If having squad leaders with full-smite is a thing, at the very least make GK hq's have the full smite too.
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Post by: Ghaz
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:SilverAlien wrote:Question: were the skyfires being used on foot or on disc? Do we know if they will have a non disc option?
They were all on Discs, As of right now I believe they can be brought on foot in AoS no clue if we can get them on foot.
Skyfires can not be used on foot in Age of Sigmar. Enlightened (the ones armed with Tzeentchian Spears) can be used on foot, but since Age of Sigmar basically uses power levels for points you never see that happen. Why would you lose a Wound, lose FLY, lose D3 attacks and cut 10" off of their move for the exact same points?
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
don't use language like this please. Reds8n is that?
It could be a modeling decision, but it could be a sniper rifle.
Edit: Never mind just a staff sticking forward.
1
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Shaman Entry cant clean it up...but below it looks like Flamers
1
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Post by: Manfred von Drakken
So, daemons in codex confirmed.
I'm sitting on pins and needles waiting for this book!
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Post by: nintura
cuda1179 wrote: nintura wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I play both TS and Grey Knights. While I would LOVE to up the psychic game of the TS, the GK player in me wants to cry foul.
No way in heck should any squad leader in a psychic-heavy list be a full-on psycher when even GK librarians (supposedly one of the best Marines psychers) are totally gimped.
GK Psykers have two powers, smite plus their special. Before, 1k Sons only had smite light. This only brings them to par, with a little bit of a buff allowing them to pick their power. But we dont even know how big the list will be they can pick from. It could be as small as 2. GK's also have far more in their army.
Par?????? TS got the smite "boosts" on tests of 10+, everyone else is on 11+. GK only have Smite light as well. It also applies to their characters. Know of any other psychic HQ in the game that is limited to smite light? That's the point I'm trying to make. If having squad leaders with full-smite is a thing, at the very least make GK hq's have the full smite too.
No. For all we know, we still have smite light as well. And when did they get big smite on 10+? From what I remember, it was over 10. GK's get access to far more psykers dont they? Nearly every squad? I can't recall, Ive played against them plenty of times, it's always been bloody between the two armies.
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Post by: cuda1179
nintura wrote: cuda1179 wrote: nintura wrote: cuda1179 wrote:I play both TS and Grey Knights. While I would LOVE to up the psychic game of the TS, the GK player in me wants to cry foul.
No way in heck should any squad leader in a psychic-heavy list be a full-on psycher when even GK librarians (supposedly one of the best Marines psychers) are totally gimped.
GK Psykers have two powers, smite plus their special. Before, 1k Sons only had smite light. This only brings them to par, with a little bit of a buff allowing them to pick their power. But we dont even know how big the list will be they can pick from. It could be as small as 2. GK's also have far more in their army.
Par?????? TS got the smite "boosts" on tests of 10+, everyone else is on 11+. GK only have Smite light as well. It also applies to their characters. Know of any other psychic HQ in the game that is limited to smite light? That's the point I'm trying to make. If having squad leaders with full-smite is a thing, at the very least make GK hq's have the full smite too.
No. For all we know, we still have smite light as well. And when did they get big smite on 10+? From what I remember, it was over 10. GK's get access to far more psykers dont they? Nearly every squad? I can't recall, Ive played against them plenty of times, it's always been bloody between the two armies.
Ever since the index list TS get the extra wounds from smite on "any roll of a ten or more". Everyone else is limited to "more than 10". If TS still have smite-light, sure GK aren't getting too shafted, except for the Librarians who deserve full smite. I was just arguing that if TS do get full smite on their squad leaders it would be a bit of a slap in the face to GK players.
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Post by: Arachnofiend
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:SilverAlien wrote:Question: were the skyfires being used on foot or on disc? Do we know if they will have a non disc option?
They were all on Discs, As of right now I believe they can be brought on foot in AoS no clue if we can get them on foot.
Re-watched the video again looks like Skyfires get 1 attack each, (4 models 9 attacks, Discs give 1, Tzaangors get 1 each, Twistbray gets 2)
Edit: Nope never mind he rolled the Discs separately looks like 2 Base attacks on Skyfires, and Thier bows have AP of -1
In Age of Sigmar Enlightened can be taken on foot but Skyfires only come on discs (thus the name "Skyfires"). Since they've been apparently combined into a single unit there's no telling if we'll be able to run them without a disc in 40k, though I feel like you would probably want to put them on discs regardless.
This was to be expected since Nurgle daemons are in the Death Guard book. They won't have the <Thousand Sons> keyword of course, they're basically just there for summoning purposes ( iirc the DG book doesn't have any HQ's in it so you are still expected to have the chaos daemons book if you want to run a daemons detachment alongside your DG/ TS).
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
Lorek wrote: Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Lorek wrote:This thread has been WAYYYY too off-topic. This is a thread-wide warning here, but further OT posts will be dinged.
So, I guess this thread is intended for discussion of the rules only and not the models or fluff? If so, apologies for the off topic.
Nice snark. No, you missed the point. This wasn't aimed at you at all, it was the posts on page four that were no relevant to the codex at all.
No snark intended! I just assumed since people were calling for permanent bans, immediately followed by a mod warning, it must have been something I said.
Anyhow, questionable weapon selections aside, it's really hard for me to be too negative about this codex. Who would have thought in a million years we'd ever see a Codex: Thousand Sons? Ultimately any army with a standalone codex has a lot going for it.
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Post by: wana10
cuda1179 wrote:
Ever since the index list TS get the extra wounds from smite on "any roll of a ten or more". Everyone else is limited to "more than 10". If TS still have smite-light, sure GK aren't getting too shafted, except for the Librarians who deserve full smite. I was just arguing that if TS do get full smite on their squad leaders it would be a bit of a slap in the face to GK players.
Only Magnus and the squad level sorcerers get the 10+ bonus. Exalted Sorcerers and Ahriman still have the regular 11+ smite.
Still have my fingers crossed that we get an option for an Exalted Sorcerer with terminator armor
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Post by: lash92
What do we know about this -1 to hit power?
Is it only against shooting or also against melee? Can it be casted on Magnus or is there some kind of restriction, like only infantry?
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Post by: demontalons
It’s a psychic power so most likely the only restriction will either be only on tzeentch, heretic astartes, or thousand sons key words. Which means Magnus can be affected
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
wana10 wrote:Still have my fingers crossed that we get an option for an Exalted Sorcerer with terminator armor
I'd say that's highly unlikely unfortunately. Going by the way they handled Death Guard HQs, I'd expect Exalted Sorcerers to have exactly the options that can be built out of their box. No models no rules.
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Post by: demontalons
Abadaboon is right most likely, you may be able to turn a termi sorceror into an exalted with warlord traits and relics though.
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Post by: Zhothac Thoth
Was re-watching the stream while i was painting my tzaangors and notice that Tzaangor enlightened do in fact have 2 wounds. At about 2:20:30 eddie fails to save 1 wound on the unit but instead of taking 1 away he puts a wound counter on 1. The units maximum size is 9 and from the sounds of it the disc might be standard war gear as they described as fast and are like the eldar windriders. I'm thinking the whole unit was designed around being the thousand sons "bike" unit.
1
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Post by: Ahriman21
I would tend to agree, 2 wounds seems to be the standard.
Hopefully this "T5" choice bleeds over to the Exalted and Ahriman. Let alone the extra Wound.
Other HQ's gain wounds and Toughness on their "bikes" so hopefully we do as well. that would go a long way to making exalteds on disc worth it. Not to mention other bonuses were already getting.
I doubt we will get an Exalted Terminator Sorcerer. But with warlord trait, our legion trait, relics, and spell options he mas as well be after all those buffs are thrown onto him. GW has that very strict "no model, no rules" policy.
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Post by: anticitizen013
Preorder is next week according to the Warhammer Community! Exciting times are ahead!
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Post by: Galas
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/21/next-weeks-pre-orders-ever-changing-ever-vigilant/
So it is confirmed. 18 psychic powers and probably you will be able to equip skyfires with chainsword+bolt pistol.
Indeed, to help you add Tzaangors to your army, we’re making the Tzaangor Upgrade Pack available separately. You’ll be able to use this to arm any Tzaangors in your collection with autopistols and chainswords – indeed, combine a few of these with the Changecult Battleforce set and you’ll be able to transform it into a very fluid Warhammer 40,000 force.
Yeah, that box is now basically both for AoS and 40k. Those Kairic can be made chaos cultists with ease. And they'll look beatefully.
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Post by: wana10
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: wana10 wrote:Still have my fingers crossed that we get an option for an Exalted Sorcerer with terminator armor
I'd say that's highly unlikely unfortunately. Going by the way they handled Death Guard HQs, I'd expect Exalted Sorcerers to have exactly the options that can be built out of their box. No models no rules.
That's annoying (even more so considering the cover of the codex is a sorcerer in termie armor!). I have the FW praetor so I'll keep running him, he's too pretty to leave behind, but it's annoying for him to be the only model that doesn't have 'All is Dust' or the Inferno ammo, both for me and my opponent.
Even so, can't wait to get the book!
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Post by: nintura
wana10 wrote: Abadabadoobaddon wrote: wana10 wrote:Still have my fingers crossed that we get an option for an Exalted Sorcerer with terminator armor
I'd say that's highly unlikely unfortunately. Going by the way they handled Death Guard HQs, I'd expect Exalted Sorcerers to have exactly the options that can be built out of their box. No models no rules.
That's annoying (even more so considering the cover of the codex is a sorcerer in termie armor!). I have the FW praetor so I'll keep running him, he's too pretty to leave behind, but it's annoying for him to be the only model that doesn't have 'All is Dust' or the Inferno ammo, both for me and my opponent.
Even so, can't wait to get the book!
Probably doesn't help much, but I converted mine from a Scarab Occult Sorc with some extra bits from the Exalted Sorc box.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Zhothac Thoth wrote:Was re-watching the stream while i was painting my tzaangors and notice that Tzaangor enlightened do in fact have 2 wounds. At about 2:20:30 eddie fails to save 1 wound on the unit but instead of taking 1 away he puts a wound counter on 1. The units maximum size is 9 and from the sounds of it the disc might be standard war gear as they described as fast and are like the eldar windriders. I'm thinking the whole unit was designed around being the thousand sons "bike" unit.
That means that Heavy bolter does 2 wounds damn.
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Post by: Guyver 3
So army list wise we’re looking at
HQ
Ahriman
Exaulted disc
Exaulted
Elites
Scarab occult
Helbrute
Shaman
Flamers
Exaulted flamer?
Troops
Rubrics
Horrors
Cultists
Tzangors
FA
Enlightened
Screamers
Heldrake
Heavy
Mutilath beast
Predator
Defiler
Burning chariot??
Mauler/forge fiends??
Low
Magnus
Looking pretty good so far
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Post by: Imateria
Guyver 3 wrote:So army list wise we’re looking at
HQ
Ahriman
Exaulted disc
Exaulted
Elites
Scarab occult
Helbrute
Shaman
Flamers
Exaulted flamer?
Troops
Rubrics
Horrors
Cultists
Tzangors
FA
Enlightened
Screamers
Heldrake
Heavy
Mutilath beast
Predator
Defiler
Burning chariot??
Mauler/forge fiends??
Low
Magnus
Looking pretty good so far
Heldrake would be a Flyer wouldn't it?
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Post by: Guyver 3
No it’s a flying monsterous creature now! Automatically Appended Next Post: Though your right it is in the flyer section!
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Post by: Ahriman21
For HQ I would imagine Sorcerer and Sorcerer in Terminator armor will definitely be in. Daemon Princes are confirmed.
For Heavy Forgefiend and Maulerfiend are more then likely going to be in. I would imagine that we will keep all the index options. also in Fast slot is Spawns.
Its a very good roster.
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Post by: Guyver 3
Yeah forgot daemon princes and spawn! (Been a long day lol!!)
Definatly gonna be using kaioric acolytes as cultists!
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Post by: Caederes
It's a great roster indeed. We can cover pretty much all of our bases, the new units do give us some stuff we needed; a Biker equivalent that can fill an anti-tank/monster role, a beefy monster to try and draw some fire away from Magnus and our other valuable stuff, and an easy way to fill out Elites slots while adding more psykers. That's awesome news about the Enlightened getting T5 and +1 Wound, we can only hope that applies to anyone riding a Disk...like our characters.
Also means my points extrapolation might have some merit again. I'm once again very confident we are getting points drops on our exclusive non-Tzaangor units, namely Rubrics and Scarab Occult. Here's hoping, I imagine Warhammer Community will start putting up articles sooner rather than later so we won't have too long to find out.
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Post by: Guyver 3
If preorders are next Saturday I’d expect an article per day from Warhammer community and a codex review from winters seo on preorder day
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Guyver 3 wrote:If preorders are next Saturday I’d expect an article per day from Warhammer community and a codex review from winters seo on preorder day
Kinda weird the Codex release went from mid/late feb to late Januaury
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Post by: Manfred von Drakken
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Guyver 3 wrote:If preorders are next Saturday I’d expect an article per day from Warhammer community and a codex review from winters seo on preorder day
Kinda weird the Codex release went from mid/late feb to late Januaury
The release is in two weeks, so it's gonna be early February.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
God its already the 21st!!!
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Post by: Leggy
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Guyver 3 wrote:If preorders are next Saturday I’d expect an article per day from Warhammer community and a codex review from winters seo on preorder day
Kinda weird the Codex release went from mid/late feb to late Januaury
Codex releases have been approximately once a fortnight since 8th dropped. The exception was November, where they released Necromunda in one of the slots instead.
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Post by: xxhikaru123
Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.
They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.
Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.
Magnus went up by 30 points.
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Post by: SilverAlien
When you say BS/WS 3, is that a 3+, or the equivalent of last editions BS 3, meaning a 4+?
Because hitting on a 2+ with a shaman is amazing.
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Post by: demontalons
If they’re 2w t5 I’m going to have to start making some dark mechanicum style conversions
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Post by: Galas
xxhikaru123 wrote:Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow
Magnus went up by 30 points.
Good, good, keep the Primarch's nerfs coming, Guilliman and Mortarion next.
Any other special rule for Skyfires? Or other weapons options? They seem a bit pricey for now.
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Post by: Arachnofiend
Will Magnus even be worth running at 445 points without his invuln reroll? That's so many points to just get deleted turn one.
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Post by: Galas
If the enemy is deleting your Primarchs he isn't deleting the rest of your army. Does it matter if those 445 are in the form of a Primarch or in 5-6 tanks? If your enemy go first you are gonna lose a good bunch of your army. 445 points aren't that many points to lose agaisn't a alpha strike army's first turn.
Or you don't lose him, and in the case of Mortarion/Magnus he can run amock with a offensive Power that not many things have in this edition. Or even better. You go first.
(And I know, I know, 445 points buy you 111 wounds of IG infantry, etc, etc... two wrongs don't make one right)
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Post by: SilverAlien
I think Ahriman might be a more competitive pick if Magnus can't walk around virtually immune to damage. Without that, Magnus runs the risk of dropping too far down his wound chart to impress, and he is too expensive to just toss as a fire magnet, the greater daemon problem. But it remains to be seen what other tricks he will have to replace his old ones.
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Post by: Slagmar
xxhikaru123 - Can you please tell us if the deep strike stratagem can be used with Magnus? Or maybe the relic that lets you come off the field and deep strike back in? Thank you
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Post by: O'Shovah's Desciple
SilverAlien wrote:When you say BS/ WS 3, is that a 3+, or the equivalent of last editions BS 3, meaning a 4+?
Because hitting on a 2+ with a shaman is amazing.
Obviously it is the new style so 3+ to hit.
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Post by: Ahriman21
Damage one? that is seriously unimpressive with the skyfires.
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Post by: xxhikaru123
xxhikaru123 wrote:Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.
They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.
Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.
Magnus went up by 30 points.
Updated text.
51 is for a unit of 3
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Post by: Arachnofiend
Hikaru, can you tell us what the temporal manipulation psychic power does? Thank you for the spoilers, between this and your work on the daemons codex you've done chaos players a great service.
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Post by: anticitizen013
xxhikaru123 wrote:Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.
They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.
Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.
Magnus went up by 30 points.
I was about to say 'ouch' at 51 points a model, but when I clicked quote, the updated message popped up and that made me happy.
Sucks about Magnus but Mortarion is 470 IIRC, so he is still less points than his gross brother.
The Skyfires should be awesome with a Shaman. I'm definitely considering putting some of those in my army now (well, more than I was before).
Moar please
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Post by: Galas
Skyfires look to be a competent and very fast objetive graver that can both defend themselves in meele and ranged combat (With bows of course, the lances and the bolt pistol+CS will be more a glass-cannon meele unit)
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Post by: xxhikaru123
the skyfires are incredible but are very very glassy.
With Shaman aura, 2+ to hit (reroll 1s near a DP), auto wound on a 5+ (with shaman). 24" range, 36" inch effective (12" fly).
Pretty much auto-include for me in some numbers but not too many.
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Post by: TheWaspinator
I got that recent AOS Tzeentch battleforce, so I'm happy with the new additions to Thousand Sons. I might just proxy the Kairic Acolytes as more melee Tzaangors to make the battleforce fully dual-system.
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Post by: SilverAlien
Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.
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Post by: xxhikaru123
SilverAlien wrote:Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.
Assault , so you can even stand at 37" , shoot at 4+ after advancing (minimally 1") &/or hit on 3+ with a shaman, so why not.
6 wounds 5++. a sneeze will kill them
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Post by: SilverAlien
xxhikaru123 wrote:SilverAlien wrote:Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.
Assault , so you can even stand at 37" , shoot at 4+ after advancing (minimally 1") &/or hit on 3+ with a shaman, so why not.
6 wounds 5++. a sneeze will kill them
Still though, they sound fairly absurd as far as firepower goes. Grab a large unit and have the shaman use some defensive buffs to keep them alive and you have a scary unit.
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Post by: Galas
SilverAlien wrote:xxhikaru123 wrote:SilverAlien wrote:Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.
Assault , so you can even stand at 37" , shoot at 4+ after advancing (minimally 1") &/or hit on 3+ with a shaman, so why not.
6 wounds 5++. a sneeze will kill them
Still though, they sound fairly absurd as far as firepower goes. Grab a large unit and have the shaman use some defensive buffs to keep them alive and you have a scary unit.
First, AoS give us the Bloodletterbomb that we have now in 40k... oh boy BEWARE THE SKYFIRES SPAM! (To be honest both of those builds where absurdly OP in AoS because they spammed Mortal Wounds. They don't do that in w40k and that Aun'va for that)
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Post by: demontalons
So you roll to hit and on a 5-6 with shaman they wound automatically? But at only assault 1 and damage 1 it doesn’t seem enough to bring down big targets. Or am I missing something
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Post by: Galas
demontalons wrote:So you roll to hit and on a 5-6 with shaman they wound automatically? But at only assault 1 and damage 1 it doesn’t seem enough to bring down big targets. Or am I missing something
He said they where Assault 2. 17ppm for a 2W, 5++ , WS/ BS +3/+3, 12" (or 14"?)M model with 3A (2 tzaangor+1 disc) and Assault 2 S5 -1AP 1D weapons that auto wound on 6+ rolls doesn't sound bad.
And even better with all the synergies with Tzaangor Shamans and other stratagems/buffs in the codex. The +1 doesn't only makes them hit on 2+, it makes them auto wound on 5 and 6 as Hikaru123 said.
Vespids are a very good unit in 8th, and Tzaangors Skyfires are basically MUCH better Vespids for only 2-3ppm more.
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Post by: Caederes
xxhikaru123 wrote:Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.
They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.
Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.
Magnus went up by 30 points.
First up, thank you for this information
If I'm not mistaken, the bows do increased damage when they trigger that auto-wound mechanic - something like D3 or 3 Damage - per what others have gleaned from the stream. Any idea if that's true?
51 per model did sound ludicrous, but 17 per model with the bows is much nicer. You're paying 10 points over a regular Tzaangor for +1T, +1W, similar melee capabilities (no rend but extra attack), double the mobility and decent to great shooting depending on how the special rule for the bows actually works. Not bad at all.
Also, we now know that 9 Enlightened with bows are 153 points, and that Magnus is now 445 points. Per Battlescribe, the Thousand Sons list minus the points of the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast and including everything else that we now know about the Enlightened (as well as the Magnus increase) is 1775 points. That now leaves 225 points for the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast. I know I keep beating a dead horse, but I'm still betting on points reductions for our other units
Also, it's nice to see that the Shaman and "Skyfires" function very similarly to how they do in AoS, down to the +1 to-hit aura and the bows "auto-wounding" on 5s and 6s near the Shaman. For someone like me that plays both 40K and AoS regularly, the similarity of these mechanics make the army that much more enticing for cross-compatibility. Awesome stuff!
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Post by: xxhikaru123
Caederes wrote:xxhikaru123 wrote:Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.
They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.
Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.
Magnus went up by 30 points.
First up, thank you for this information
If I'm not mistaken, the bows do increased damage when they trigger that auto-wound mechanic - something like D3 or 3 Damage - per what others have gleaned from the stream. Any idea if that's true?
51 per model did sound ludicrous, but 17 per model with the bows is much nicer. You're paying 10 points over a regular Tzaangor for +1T, +1W, similar melee capabilities (no rend but extra attack), over double the mobility and decent to great shooting depending on how the special rule for the bows actually works. Not bad at all.
Also, we now know that 9 Enlightened with bows are 153 points, and that Magnus is now 445 points. Per Battlescribe, the Thousand Sons list minus the points of the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast and including everything else that we now know about the Enlightened (as well as the Magnus increase) is 1775 points. That now leaves 225 points for the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast. I know I keep beating a dead horse, but I'm still betting on points reductions for our other units
Also, it's nice to see that the Shaman and "Skyfires" function very similarly to how they do in AoS, down to the +1 to-hit aura and the bows "auto-wounding" on 5s and 6s near the Shaman. For someone like me that plays both 40K and AoS regularly, the similarity of these mechanics make the army that much more enticing for cross-compatibility. Awesome stuff!
Ask the rest who have seen me post on my reliability, who cares about listening hard on a stream?
Mutalith are about 150.
Shaman is 80-90, i forgot.
Vast majority of units did not get any point changes. Some weapons went down abit, some characters went up, all within 5 pt difference.
You should not have any net gain or lose of points using any of the current units.
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Post by: Caederes
xxhikaru123 wrote:Ask the rest who have seen me post on my reliability, who cares about listening hard on a stream?
Mutalith are about 150.
Shaman is 80-90, i forgot.
Vast majority of units did not get any point changes. Some weapons went down abit, some characters went up, all within 5 pt difference.
You should not have any net gain or lose of points using any of the current units.
Sorry if it came across as questioning your reliability, that wasn't my intent; I was just curious about the bow special rule as others have said it sounded like the Skyfire bows do more damage when they trigger the auto-wound. Either way, it's no big deal on whether they do or not, they sound nasty as-is.
Hmm fair enough then, so it is a case of the Mutalith and Shaman being cheaper than I thought. A shame about the lack of points reductions, but I'm happy enough with what we get instead.
Thanks a bunch
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Post by: demontalons
Have there been any point changes to the rubric flamers? Have they done anything special with scarab occult power swords like they did with nurgle terms?
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Post by: the_scotsman
Right right birdmen on flying saucers very nice. I'll put them on the stack of anti infantry options that tzeentch gets with flamers horrors rubrics scarabs Screamers etc etc etc.
Xhikaru, everyone's favorite chaos associated leak person, can you tell us about the new codex and how it works with the psychic goodness?
Specifically:
-who gets to use what powers? We know we have 18, but are the tzeentch powers limited to only daemon princes?
-are the tzeentch powers exactly the same as in the daemon codex (i.e. if we take Flickering Flame it only can give +1 wound to Daemons) or can they be used to benefit thousand sons?
-what are the Thousand Sons powers we have not yet seen?
I'm super excited for my Thousand Sons to be back doing what made me fall in love with them in 7th: versatile, tactical mastery of psychic might!
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Post by: Ahriman21
demontalons wrote:Have there been any point changes to the rubric flamers? Have they done anything special with scarab occult power swords like they did with nurgle terms?
+1 on this post, more info would be nice in this regard.
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Post by: xxhikaru123
the_scotsman wrote:Right right birdmen on flying saucers very nice. I'll put them on the stack of anti infantry options that tzeentch gets with flamers horrors rubrics scarabs Screamers etc etc etc.
Xhikaru, everyone's favorite chaos associated leak person, can you tell us about the new codex and how it works with the psychic goodness?
Specifically:
-who gets to use what powers? We know we have 18, but are the tzeentch powers limited to only daemon princes?
-are the tzeentch powers exactly the same as in the daemon codex (i.e. if we take Flickering Flame it only can give +1 wound to Daemons) or can they be used to benefit thousand sons?
-what are the Thousand Sons powers we have not yet seen?
I'm super excited for my Thousand Sons to be back doing what made me fall in love with them in 7th: versatile, tactical mastery of psychic might!
Thousand Sons have the exact same Lore as the one in the CD book and applies only to Daemons.
TS get 3 Lores, Tzeentch Daemon (CD book), Dark Hereticus & their own.
I forsee TS & Tzeentch Codex Daemons pretty much playing like Tzeentch Daemonkin.
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Post by: the_scotsman
Interesting. I suppose flickering flames rubrics were too much to hope for lol. Good for me though as I run both daemons and sons in my list!
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
xxhikaru123 wrote:the_scotsman wrote:Right right birdmen on flying saucers very nice. I'll put them on the stack of anti infantry options that tzeentch gets with flamers horrors rubrics scarabs Screamers etc etc etc.
Xhikaru, everyone's favorite chaos associated leak person, can you tell us about the new codex and how it works with the psychic goodness?
Specifically:
-who gets to use what powers? We know we have 18, but are the tzeentch powers limited to only daemon princes?
-are the tzeentch powers exactly the same as in the daemon codex (i.e. if we take Flickering Flame it only can give +1 wound to Daemons) or can they be used to benefit thousand sons?
-what are the Thousand Sons powers we have not yet seen?
I'm super excited for my Thousand Sons to be back doing what made me fall in love with them in 7th: versatile, tactical mastery of psychic might!
Thousand Sons have the exact same Lore as the one in the CD book and applies only to Daemons.
TS get 3 Lores, Tzeentch Daemon (CD book), Dark Hereticus & their own.
I forsee TS & Tzeentch Codex Daemons pretty much playing like Tzeentch Daemonkin.
Any news on point changes for Rubrics/ SOT?
Also, Does the Shaman only affect Tzaangor units?
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Post by: Brometheus
the_scotsman wrote:Interesting. I suppose flickering flames rubrics were too much to hope for lol. Good for me though as I run both daemons and sons in my list!
At least VotLW stratagem is confirmed!
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Post by: BrianDavion
Galas wrote:xxhikaru123 wrote:Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow
Magnus went up by 30 points.
Good, good, keep the Primarch's nerfs coming, Guilliman and Mortarion next.
Any other special rule for Skyfires? Or other weapons options? They seem a bit pricey for now.
Gulliman already got a points increase if you'll recall
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Post by: Brometheus
The big question is if Magnus lost the re-roll 1s for invuls Aura, what does he get (along with Ahriman and Exalted Sorcerers?)
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Post by: Galas
BrianDavion wrote: Galas wrote:xxhikaru123 wrote:Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow
Magnus went up by 30 points.
Good, good, keep the Primarch's nerfs coming, Guilliman and Mortarion next.
Any other special rule for Skyfires? Or other weapons options? They seem a bit pricey for now.
Gulliman already got a points increase if you'll recall
I know, and it did nothing to be honest. Guilliman needs a TON of nerfs, because as long as he is OP as it is now, you can't really buff the SM codex to where it should be without the inclusion of Guilliman making it the most busted army warhammer has ever seen.
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Post by: DJ3
the_scotsman wrote:Interesting. I suppose flickering flames rubrics were too much to hope for lol. Good for me though as I run both daemons and sons in my list!
You'll likely be able to flickering flame the Skyfires though, as models on Discs and other Daemonic Steeds have always had the Daemon keyword thusfar.
So it's possible to end up with Skyfires that hit on 2+ rr, autowound on 5+, with +1 to wound and rr1 wound (from Tzeentch daemon warlord trait)
If they have Heretic Astartes keyword you could even get them to auto wound on 4+ from Prescience
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Post by: Daedalus81
Galas wrote:If the enemy is deleting your Primarchs he isn't deleting the rest of your army. Does it matter if those 445 are in the form of a Primarch or in 5-6 tanks? If your enemy go first you are gonna lose a good bunch of your army. 445 points aren't that many points to lose agaisn't a alpha strike army's first turn.
Or you don't lose him, and in the case of Mortarion/Magnus he can run amock with a offensive Power that not many things have in this edition. Or even better. You go first.
(And I know, I know, 445 points buy you 111 wounds of IG infantry, etc, etc... two wrongs don't make one right)
I think the problem is that people throw Magnus in the list and forget to add things that keep the army going when he dies. A crutch if you will.
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Post by: Guyver 3
Hopefully there’ll be some lists that are viable without Magnus! I’d like to actually run some rubrics in my thousand sons army with Ahriman as HQ
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Post by: xxhikaru123
Yes, 6" Bubble all tzaangor unit.
Shaman has a once per game use elixir to reroll 1st failed psychic test for the model.
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Post by: zamerion
Thanks again for all the information!!!
Can you share what the mutalith beast does?
in the video of the game it was not clear
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I believe it goes gribble gribble gribble?
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Post by: hhhdan
Are there any changes to exalted sorcerers? Still a single HQ choice? Any changes to wargear or special rules?
Thanks for all the info!
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Post by: Bulldogging
No, it moves up a few inches then you remove it from the table. I verified that from the video.
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Post by: Brian888
Galas wrote:If the enemy is deleting your Primarchs he isn't deleting the rest of your army. Does it matter if those 445 are in the form of a Primarch or in 5-6 tanks? If your enemy go first you are gonna lose a good bunch of your army. 445 points aren't that many points to lose agaisn't a alpha strike army's first turn.
Or you don't lose him, and in the case of Mortarion/Magnus he can run amock with a offensive Power that not many things have in this edition. Or even better. You go first.
(And I know, I know, 445 points buy you 111 wounds of IG infantry, etc, etc... two wrongs don't make one right)
Five to six tanks are harder to delete or render ineffective than Magnus, simply because your opponent has to split fire to take out the tanks. Magnus is a single model that the opponent can focus on and destroy (or severely reduce in effectiveness) very easily. The problem is passive defense. Guilliman can be bubble-wrapped. Mortarion can be parked next to some Deathshroud. This all works regardless of whether it's your turn or not. Magnus' passive defenses (rerollable ones and/or the Changeling) have been removed or severely nerfed. He's fine once you can activate him and he can get his defensive spells rolling, but before that happens, he's a huge sitting duck.
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Post by: Warpspy
I'm disliking everything i see.
Very disappointing.
No changes in points for rubrics or terminators mean that they will continue to be "auxiliary" units. More goats and better rules for them is what i feared, that is, making this "Codex: Tzaangors". I really dislike the idea and it is very disappointing. No rules for better casting the psychic powers mean that GW is still missing the point of the TS completely. Instead of improving and adding more units of actual THOUSAND SONS, we got more goats and mutated beasts, making this a "All-Tzeentch-flavours-circus".
I would like to have a proper "Codex: Thousand Sons", not a "Codex: Tzeentch-All-flavours" or "Codex: Servants of Tzeentch". I wanted a Thousand Sons LEGION codex. More units, characters and rules to properly represent them on the game. This is not that. Is just a lazy amalgamation of units, making this a poor and lazy "Tzeentch Soup" that i don't like.
To the possible answer: "Just don't use Tzaangors!", it seems that GW does want you to use them at all cost. They keep same points and rules for the actual TS units, making them the less effective and more expensive options, and they throw in some more goats, giving them sinergies and weapons and rules to boost them. So if you don't take goats in one or other shape, you are basically doing a purposely bad army list... It is just awful.
And all this is because the stupid policy of "No model - No rules" that GW has implemented now. And just because the TS range is incomplete, they just add some random things from fantasy. Is just lazy and bad designing. The codex TS needed some units, but instead of making proper entries, because they have no new models, they just throw in fantasy goats and a forgotten fantasy random monster and they call it a great idea... Those models simply don't fit with the rest of the army. The very first Tzaangors are shoehorned and are not really representatives of the Thousand Sons legion. With one only unit that would be ok, because they can be some sort of "auxiliary" troops, but now they expand to have more options to Tzaangors than to actual TS infantry. So now it is the opposite, you have Thousand Sons as "auxiliary" troops for the goats core...
So it seems that one will have to wait until 9th edition, perhaps then can do it right...
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Post by: the_scotsman
You're talking more like 3-4 tanks. 4 only if you're talking about something like Basilisks, arguably the most undercosted vehicle in the game at 108.
Firepower in Lascannons (or Bright Lances, or Dark Lances, whatever "range of the board" common anti tank weapon you like) that kills Magnus generally kills 3 other tanks. If we're assuming you didn't place him in a dumb spot where something could deep strike down and double tap him with plasma or something, primarily the damage is going to be done with lascannons or equivalent longrange D6 damage guns.
Vs Magnus, it takes 23 lascannons or Lances to down him on average, or 28 if you took the changeling despite the nerf.
Vs standard T7/T8 3+ tank profile, those same 23 lascannon shots deal 29.8 wounds (2 tanks dead, 1 tank crippled to its third bracket usually) and if they're Lance shots they deal 36 wounds (3 tanks dead).
If you're comparing Magnus' points to the most undercosted vehicle in the game, the basilisk, yeah that's not a great trade (only 324 points of basilisks dead for 445 points of magnus). Comparing to something less optimized like marine predators, or even something fairly optimized like Leman Russ battlecannon+ HB tanks, the trade is more even or in magnus' favor.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Warpspy wrote:I'm disliking everything i see.
Very disappointing.
No changes in points for rubrics or terminators mean that they will continue to be "auxiliary" units. More goats and better rules for them is what i feared, that is, making this "Codex: Tzaangors". I really dislike the idea and it is very disappointing. No rules for better casting the psychic powers mean that GW is still missing the point of the TS completely. Instead of improving and adding more units of actual THOUSAND SONS, we got more goats and mutated beasts, making this a "All-Tzeentch-flavours-circus".
I would like to have a proper "Codex: Thousand Sons", not a "Codex: Tzeentch-All-flavours" or "Codex: Servants of Tzeentch". I wanted a Thousand Sons LEGION codex. More units, characters and rules to properly represent them on the game. This is not that. Is just a lazy amalgamation of units, making this a poor and lazy "Tzeentch Soup" that i don't like.
To the possible answer: "Just don't use Tzaangors!", it seems that GW does want you to use them at all cost. They keep same points and rules for the actual TS units, making them the less effective and more expensive options, and they throw in some more goats, giving them sinergies and weapons and rules to boost them. So if you don't take goats in one or other shape, you are basically doing a purposely bad army list... It is just awful.
And all this is because the stupid policy of "No model - No rules" that GW has implemented now. And just because the TS range is incomplete, they just add some random things from fantasy. Is just lazy and bad designing. The codex TS needed some units, but instead of making proper entries, because they have no new models, they just throw in fantasy goats and a forgotten fantasy random monster and they call it a great idea... Those models simply don't fit with the rest of the army. The very first Tzaangors are shoehorned and are not really representatives of the Thousand Sons legion. With one only unit that would be ok, because they can be some sort of "auxiliary" troops, but now they expand to have more options to Tzaangors than to actual TS infantry. So now it is the opposite, you have Thousand Sons as "auxiliary" troops for the goats core...
So it seems that one will have to wait until 9th edition, perhaps then can do it right...
I think you're discounting how big being able to cast real psychic powers instead of pathetic babysmite is for actual units of rubrics. Am I still hoping we see some small points reductions for rubrics? Am I still very much hoping for force swords on SOTs? yeah. but even if it we just get a boatload of stratagems and psychic powers on every guy, I am very pleased.
As for getting weird auxiliary units instead of new core thousand sons legion units...I guess that's just what you like. Personally, I don't want to run 30k in 40k - the lack of pure power armor is why I like tsons in the first place because I find painting 100 identical power armored dudes an unbelievable chore. Just because something is not your cup of tea doesn't mean it's wrong, and it also doesn't mean you can't run primarily Sons pointwise and no tzaangors at all. Sure, you will probably want to bring 20-ish cultists to form an anti deep strike daisy chain for your army to function well in 8th ed, but 80 points in cultists is hardly a travesty.
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Post by: Guyver 3
Warpspy wrote:I'm disliking everything i see.
Very disappointing.
No changes in points for rubrics or terminators mean that they will continue to be "auxiliary" units. More goats and better rules for them is what i feared, that is, making this "Codex: Tzaangors". I really dislike the idea and it is very disappointing. No rules for better casting the psychic powers mean that GW is still missing the point of the TS completely. Instead of improving and adding more units of actual THOUSAND SONS, we got more goats and mutated beasts, making this a "All-Tzeentch-flavours-circus".
I would like to have a proper "Codex: Thousand Sons", not a "Codex: Tzeentch-All-flavours" or "Codex: Servants of Tzeentch". I wanted a Thousand Sons LEGION codex. More units, characters and rules to properly represent them on the game. This is not that. Is just a lazy amalgamation of units, making this a poor and lazy "Tzeentch Soup" that i don't like.
To the possible answer: "Just don't use Tzaangors!", it seems that GW does want you to use them at all cost. They keep same points and rules for the actual TS units, making them the less effective and more expensive options, and they throw in some more goats, giving them sinergies and weapons and rules to boost them. So if you don't take goats in one or other shape, you are basically doing a purposely bad army list... It is just awful.
And all this is because the stupid policy of "No model - No rules" that GW has implemented now. And just because the TS range is incomplete, they just add some random things from fantasy. Is just lazy and bad designing. The codex TS needed some units, but instead of making proper entries, because they have no new models, they just throw in fantasy goats and a forgotten fantasy random monster and they call it a great idea... Those models simply don't fit with the rest of the army. The very first Tzaangors are shoehorned and are not really representatives of the Thousand Sons legion. With one only unit that would be ok, because they can be some sort of "auxiliary" troops, but now they expand to have more options to Tzaangors than to actual TS infantry. So now it is the opposite, you have Thousand Sons as "auxiliary" troops for the goats core...
So it seems that one will have to wait until 9th edition, perhaps then can do it right...
It was evident from the twitch report where he only took 5 rubrics and 5 occult termies in 2k!
I personally don’t have an issue with tzaangors but I agree that it is sad that tsons are badly represented in their own army, at the very least they could have made a few alrernate HQs out of the exaulted sorcerer kit!
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Post by: Galas
the_scotsman wrote:You're talking more like 3-4 tanks. 4 only if you're talking about something like Basilisks, arguably the most undercosted vehicle in the game at 108.
Firepower in Lascannons (or Bright Lances, or Dark Lances, whatever "range of the board" common anti tank weapon you like) that kills Magnus generally kills 3 other tanks. If we're assuming you didn't place him in a dumb spot where something could deep strike down and double tap him with plasma or something, primarily the damage is going to be done with lascannons or equivalent longrange D6 damage guns.
Vs Magnus, it takes 23 lascannons or Lances to down him on average, or 28 if you took the changeling despite the nerf.
Vs standard T7/T8 3+ tank profile, those same 23 lascannon shots deal 29.8 wounds (2 tanks dead, 1 tank crippled to its third bracket usually) and if they're Lance shots they deal 36 wounds (3 tanks dead).
If you're comparing Magnus' points to the most undercosted vehicle in the game, the basilisk, yeah that's not a great trade (only 324 points of basilisks dead for 445 points of magnus). Comparing to something less optimized like marine predators, or even something fairly optimized like Leman Russ battlecannon+ HB tanks, the trade is more even or in magnus' favor. .
Yeah, this was my point. If your opponent can kill Magnus in the first round of shooting he would be totally able to kill an equal number of points in nearly all other kind of models barring undercosted infantry. But you'll get much more mileage from Magnus than from 3-4 tanks if you go first instead.
Primarchs need to be nerfed into the balanced (So, no competitive) bracket if we want their respective armies to have space to breath and not be a Primarch+Goddies list. You can't buff SM with how Guilliman is now, the same happens with DG and TS.
Warpspy wrote:
I would like to have a proper "Codex: Thousand Sons", not a "Codex: Tzeentch-All-flavours" or "Codex: Servants of Tzeentch". I wanted a Thousand Sons LEGION codex. More units, characters and rules to properly represent them on the game. This is not that. Is just a lazy amalgamation of units, making this a poor and lazy "Tzeentch Soup" that i don't like.
Thats the point where you are wrong. Thousand Sons don't exist anymore. Theres no Chaos Legions anymore. Even the Black Legion and Death Guard, the most organised ones, are in general a bunch of chaos warbands with a ton of freedom and loosely organized between themselves.
Chaos Space Marines aren't loyalists. They aren't organized in chapters. The most common chaos force in the galaxy is an amalgamation of all kind of Chaos forces, specially space marines from different origins/legions,etc...
The Thousand Sons Codex is there to represent the present state of the Thousand Sons afilliated sorcerers, a bunch of madmans that only care about their personal powers, that work more like a Imperial Inquisitor gathering a bunch of random troops for their service rather than like an organized military faction.
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Post by: Ahriman21
Why is this even an issue? they aren't badly priced once you factor in full rubric squad sorcerers, access to a large number of spells, stratagem use, and several unknown factors (aura buffs is a big one we still have NO idea on)
Seems like Rubrics and SOT are going to be just fine once we get every piece of the puzzle. With the index I regularly field 30 or so, I think in this book fielding 30 or more (which at that point is FAR beyond auxiliary unit choice) will be quite viable.
I would imagine we will get at least one "shoot again" or "fight again" stratagem since basically every book I am aware of has one of those in some fashion.
I for one BEGIN my list with a battalion, 2 squads of rubrics is my minimum, usually 3. Offset by Tzaangors and some cultists. and considering I usually while losing against codex lists would pull around even with each squad before this point? I think we will be fine overall using Rubrics.
Scarab Occult if staying the same price point but having strategem access as well as spell access would be "okay" but sadly they suffer from the same issue ALL terminators suffer from. Termies in general are an issue still so that isnt just on the SOT.
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Post by: the_scotsman
Ahriman21 wrote:Why is this even an issue? they aren't badly priced once you factor in full rubric squad sorcerers, access to a large number of spells, stratagem use, and several unknown factors (aura buffs is a big one we still have NO idea on)
Seems like Rubrics and SOT are going to be just fine once we get every piece of the puzzle. With the index I regularly field 30 or so, I think in this book fielding 30 or more (which at that point is FAR beyond auxiliary unit choice) will be quite viable.
I would imagine we will get at least one "shoot again" or "fight again" stratagem since basically every book I am aware of has one of those in some fashion.
I for one BEGIN my list with a battalion, 2 squads of rubrics is my minimum, usually 3. Offset by Tzaangors and some cultists. and considering I usually while losing against codex lists would pull around even with each squad before this point? I think we will be fine overall using Rubrics.
Scarab Occult if staying the same price point but having strategem access as well as spell access would be "okay" but sadly they suffer from the same issue ALL terminators suffer from. Termies in general are an issue still so that isnt just on the SOT.
SOT are particularly obnoxious on the offensive front to me because of the mind-bogglingly dumb decision to give them power swords instead of force swords. the new DG terminators work fairly well because they actually do some damage if they get where they're going. A D3 damage force sword would give them at least some punch. In my last game I had 7 scarab occult pile into a basic chaos lord and deal a grand total of 2 wounds thanks to his invuln save.
Their shooting is fine, especially when you bring a CSM detachment for VOTLW, which means they can pretty reliably dakka apart a tank or something on the turn they come down. Given that, and the ability to have the scarab sorc drop the -1 to hit spell on them or Warptime to get them into combat, they'd be mediocre/overpriced. Give them force swords and I think you'd have yourself a decent, average unit.
Rubrics with a real power and a soulreaper in 5 models will be in just about the right spot. 2 squads in a rhino with 2 soulreapers and 2 psychic powers and I'm a happy man.
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Post by: Ahriman21
Yeah I definitely feel you on the "meh" melee capability. The other issue is that you pay a premium for "all is dust" on Scarab Occults that rarely get used, because very few people willingly fire D1 weapons at terminators anyway so its almost a waste.
Rubrics I feel are in a much better spot and you can make arguments for MSU or larger singular squads with our spell buffing and our stratagem support.
Those 20 man "pop and drop" rubric squads are going to be horrendous. decent damage output, can reliably with just VOTLW ace a T7 or below vehicle, has a caster built-in.
That will be a standard for me I think.... Although Goats are also funny, drop them down and go at it.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Guyver 3 wrote:
It was evident from the twitch report where he only took 5 rubrics and 5 occult termies in 2k!
Oh my god I can't do this anymore.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Guyver 3 wrote: Warpspy wrote:I'm disliking everything i see.
Very disappointing.
No changes in points for rubrics or terminators mean that they will continue to be "auxiliary" units. More goats and better rules for them is what i feared, that is, making this "Codex: Tzaangors". I really dislike the idea and it is very disappointing. No rules for better casting the psychic powers mean that GW is still missing the point of the TS completely. Instead of improving and adding more units of actual THOUSAND SONS, we got more goats and mutated beasts, making this a "All-Tzeentch-flavours-circus".
I would like to have a proper "Codex: Thousand Sons", not a "Codex: Tzeentch-All-flavours" or "Codex: Servants of Tzeentch". I wanted a Thousand Sons LEGION codex. More units, characters and rules to properly represent them on the game. This is not that. Is just a lazy amalgamation of units, making this a poor and lazy "Tzeentch Soup" that i don't like.
To the possible answer: "Just don't use Tzaangors!", it seems that GW does want you to use them at all cost. They keep same points and rules for the actual TS units, making them the less effective and more expensive options, and they throw in some more goats, giving them sinergies and weapons and rules to boost them. So if you don't take goats in one or other shape, you are basically doing a purposely bad army list... It is just awful.
And all this is because the stupid policy of "No model - No rules" that GW has implemented now. And just because the TS range is incomplete, they just add some random things from fantasy. Is just lazy and bad designing. The codex TS needed some units, but instead of making proper entries, because they have no new models, they just throw in fantasy goats and a forgotten fantasy random monster and they call it a great idea... Those models simply don't fit with the rest of the army. The very first Tzaangors are shoehorned and are not really representatives of the Thousand Sons legion. With one only unit that would be ok, because they can be some sort of "auxiliary" troops, but now they expand to have more options to Tzaangors than to actual TS infantry. So now it is the opposite, you have Thousand Sons as "auxiliary" troops for the goats core...
So it seems that one will have to wait until 9th edition, perhaps then can do it right...
It was evident from the twitch report where he only took 5 rubrics and 5 occult termies in 2k!
I personally don’t have an issue with tzaangors but I agree that it is sad that tsons are badly represented in their own army, at the very least they could have made a few alrernate HQs out of the exaulted sorcerer kit!
He also took Magnus, a Demon Prince and Ahriman. All of which are members of the Thousand Sons.
You know the Thousand Sons just doesn't consist of a few sorcerors and rubrics, right? And that marines cost more points than tzaangors, especially Magnus?
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Post by: Guyver 3
I’m wondering if rubrics with flamers will get some usage? At the moment it’s just an odd weapon on a unit that should always be nowhere near cc!
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Post by: Daedalus81
Nerfy nerfs! Expected and welcome.
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Post by: Galas
Nothing unexpected. But I wasn't expecting a full Dathasheet in a FAQ.
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Post by: the_scotsman
Guyver 3 wrote:I’m wondering if rubrics with flamers will get some usage? At the moment it’s just an odd weapon on a unit that should always be nowhere near cc!
Well, the nice thing about the new relic and deep strike stratagem means that 20 man units are no longer nearly as easily counterable than they once were. Rubrics in my experience don't die in cc immediately, they just get tied up in combat for eternity and can't do anything. If you're dropping the unit in, and paying that many points, you're probably committing to warptime on them, which gets the flamers in range, and you bring that relic along and it doesn't matter if they get tied up in combat, any survivors get to yoink themselves up and out of combat and drop back down again for more dakka. Could be a cute little tactic. Get an Exalted sorc on a disk or a daemon prince with the relic, run them up when you drop the 20 man blob down, and fill em full of defensive buffs. Even big cc threats like Genestealers or khorne bezerkers will have trouble taking them down since most of their cc units are single damage but rely on weight of attacks. But give them -1 to hit and a 3++ rerolling 1s with all is dust and an exalt. Give them say 5 warpflamers for extra damage and overwatch threat.
If you get Glamor and Weaver on that squad and they get countercharged by 20 genestealers, 8 die to overwatch, and the remaining 12 kill 3 models.
10 khorne bezerkers (lets say they charge from outside flamer range, because otherwise the squad is just basically dead) lose 2 to overwatch, kill 3 models total attacking with their chainaxes and the champ's powerfist.
Sure, they can be dakka'd to death, if you've got 60 rapid firing BS3+ plasma guns lying around, but that does take a small bit of effort.
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Post by: nintura
Galas wrote:Nothing unexpected. But I wasn't expecting a full Dathasheet in a FAQ. DG players on facebook are saying that they removed the synergy between DG, Nurgle Daemons, and CSM. But left all the synergy between the imperial. Yep, they killed deepstriking with Magnus and Morty.
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Post by: Galas
nintura wrote: Galas wrote:Nothing unexpected. But I wasn't expecting a full Dathasheet in a FAQ.
DG players on facebook are saying that they removed the synergy between DG, Nurgle Daemons, and CSM. But left all the synergy between the imperial.
What more sinergy did they want? They are all Chaos units that can be combined to fit tactical roles your force maybe don't has. They are leagues ahead of xenos. Chaos Daemon units that buff "Daemonic" units still work. A Nurgle Herald will buff a DG Foetid Bloat Drone, giving his flamethrower +1S, the same with Marked Possessed, etc, etc... just like some Imperial units buff "Imperials" like Adeptus Custodes, Celestine, etc...
Chaos was the only faction that could use Stratagems from one Codex to use with units of other factions. And before "But Space Marines stratagems!" the generic <Adeptus Astartes> stratagems are shared in all of the Space Marine codexs so it doesn't matter you are ussing the Orbital bombarment stratagem in the C: SM codex, the DA or the BA one.
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Post by: Daedalus81
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Post by: zamerion
Ninjed XD
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Post by: Daedalus81
Gargoyles is so effin' good. AHHH. Roll those rhinos up and cook off the jerks getting in the way.
TS is a Rhino army for reals.
Spawn will be awesome. Tzaangors can fight twice. Oh god i don't have enough CP for this.
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Post by: Galas
Fated Mutation is a very flavorfoul stratagem and usefull. I really like those.
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Post by: Brian888
I wonder what Brotherhood of Sorcerers does.
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Post by: Nym
Galas wrote:Fated Mutation is a very flavorfoul stratagem and usefull. I really like those.
Yeah I like it a lot, it's great and makes me want to build Chaos Spawns !
Actually all these Stratagems are awesome. I want to run a Thousand Sons brigade more than ever... but 12CP won't be enough !! Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think it's the +6" to Psychic powers, our Legion trait.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Flesh change sounds nuts. Its also pretty useful, as you can burn a cp to replace a weakened character on the verge of death with a fresh unit at no points cost. I can see a shenanigan like that being used often.
Also, GW knows memes now
while Warhammer Community’s Eddie (longtime Magnus-did-nothing-wrong activist)
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Post by: Galas
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Flesh change sounds nuts. Its also pretty useful, as you can burn a cp to replace a weakened character on the verge of death with a fresh unit at no points cost. I can see a shenanigan like that being used often.
Also, GW knows memes now
while Warhammer Community’s Eddie (longtime Magnus-did-nothing-wrong activist)
After the GK interaction with the Robbe FAQ, I think they'll FAQ that stratagem to count as "Slain the warlord" if you used it in your own warlord. But if not, thats a nice bonus.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
True, but if the warlord is reduced to 1 wound and about to die anyway, might as well get some more mileage out of him before he's gone.
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Post by: Daedalus81
This is the 6" rule probably?
First and foremost, Thousand Sons players will be rewarded for their dedicated list building with Brotherhood of Sorcerers, a special rule designed to help them capitalise on their psychic powers.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Daedalus81 wrote:This is the 6" rule probably? First and foremost, Thousand Sons players will be rewarded for their dedicated list building with Brotherhood of Sorcerers, a special rule designed to help them capitalise on their psychic powers.
Could be. Sounds like a faction trait.
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Post by: Galas
I think they forgot to put the image for the Legion Trait.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Daedalus81 wrote:Gargoyles is so effin' good. AHHH. Roll those rhinos up and cook off the jerks getting in the way.
TS is a Rhino army for reals.
Spawn will be awesome. Tzaangors can fight twice. Oh god i don't have enough CP for this.
Exactly your going to have to run Tzaangors and Cultists and keep the Rubrics at a minimum
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Post by: Messiah
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Daedalus81 wrote:Gargoyles is so effin' good. AHHH. Roll those rhinos up and cook off the jerks getting in the way.
TS is a Rhino army for reals.
Spawn will be awesome. Tzaangors can fight twice. Oh god i don't have enough CP for this.
Exactly your going to have to run Tzaangors and Cultists and keep the Rubrics at a minimum
Great! That sounds like a fun and fluffy army from the planet of the sorcerors, now that it is in realspace.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Daedalus81 wrote:Gargoyles is so effin' good. AHHH. Roll those rhinos up and cook off the jerks getting in the way.
TS is a Rhino army for reals.
Spawn will be awesome. Tzaangors can fight twice. Oh god i don't have enough CP for this.
Exactly your going to have to run Tzaangors and Cultists and keep the Rubrics at a minimum
Talk about tone deaf...
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Post by: demontalons
We don’t know about the other stratagems. I can almost guarantee you that there will be a rubric oriented stratagem
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Post by: Ahriman21
we saw like 3 strategems, your goat-hate-lust is worthy of khorne himself.
if 30 rubrics is "at a minimum" then yes sir ill play at that minimum all day! ;-)
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Post by: the_scotsman
the best part about gargoyles is that you don't even have to start in combat. You can just advance a rhino into optimal kamikaze position and let 'er rip in the fight phase. Glorious.
Say, you know what wasn't disallowed in that stratagem? Defilers. Maulerfiends.
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Post by: Ahriman21
the_scotsman wrote:the best part about gargoyles is that you don't even have to start in combat. You can just advance a rhino into optimal kamikaze position and let 'er rip in the fight phase. Glorious.
Say, you know what wasn't disallowed in that stratagem? Defilers. Maulerfiends.
I call that; beautiful.
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Post by: Bulldogging
demontalons wrote:We don’t know about the other stratagems. I can almost guarantee you that there will be a rubric oriented stratagem
Yeah, 2 CP and replace your rubrics for another squad of Tzaangors!
Seriously though, they really are focused heavy on non marines so far.
Webway infiltration being infantry only makes me a little sad, but expected.
Chaos Spawn obviously haven't been selling well enough lately, but it will be interesting to see how they play out.
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Post by: Guyver 3
Warp flame gargoyle maulerfeind! That is awesome, like a mini mortarion
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Post by: the_scotsman
Bulldogging wrote:demontalons wrote:We don’t know about the other stratagems. I can almost guarantee you that there will be a rubric oriented stratagem
Yeah, 2 CP and replace your rubrics for another squad of Tzaangors!
Seriously though, they really are focused heavy on non marines so far.
Webway infiltration being infantry only makes me a little sad, but expected.
Chaos Spawn obviously haven't been selling well enough lately, but it will be interesting to see how they play out.
They could call the stratagem "Rubric 2: The Twobric". Pay 2cp to have one of your sorcerors make a hairbrained attempt at fixing the rubric, turn 1 squad of rubrics into tzaangors and gain the difference in points in Reinforcement Points that you can use to summon spawns onto the board and such.
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Post by: Daedalus81
This article has one thing about Tzaangors and apparently it's bad form to talk about anything else, too lest you bunch start panicking.
Chaos Spawn obviously haven't been selling well enough lately, but it will be interesting to see how they play out.
LOL god this is such a tired line. The whole sales of the spawn kit relies on a single stratagem. Go get 'em boys!
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Post by: Brian888
It's confirmed on 40K's Facebook page that Brotherhood of Sorcerers is the 6" Legion trait.
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Post by: EnTyme
Daedalus81 wrote:
Chaos Spawn obviously haven't been selling well enough lately, but it will be interesting to see how they play out.
LOL god this is such a tired line. The whole sales of the spawn kit relies on a single stratagem. Go get 'em boys!
Didn't you know? In the entire history of tabletop gaming, no one has ever purchased a model just because they liked it. /s
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Post by: Ghaz
Brian888 wrote:It's confirmed on 40K's Facebook page that Brotherhood of Sorcerers is the 6" Legion trait.
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Post by: Bulldogging
EnTyme wrote:Daedalus81 wrote:
Chaos Spawn obviously haven't been selling well enough lately, but it will be interesting to see how they play out.
LOL god this is such a tired line. The whole sales of the spawn kit relies on a single stratagem. Go get 'em boys!
Didn't you know? In the entire history of tabletop gaming, no one has ever purchased a model just because they liked it. /s
it was a joke, most of my post was. I needed more ork faces I think.
With that said, if you don't think they have model sales in mind when they make the majority of their decisions.... Well, I guess we will just disagree on that, and that's OK too!
the_scotsman wrote:
They could call the stratagem "Rubric 2: The Twobric". Pay 2cp to have one of your sorcerors make a hairbrained attempt at fixing the rubric, turn 1 squad of rubrics into tzaangors and gain the difference in points in Reinforcement Points that you can use to summon spawns onto the board and such.
Nice!
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Post by: Daedalus81
Nice...so not just the first spell cast.
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Post by: Anaxagoras
Cannot express the excitement for this Dex....been playing Thousand Sons for Twenty years. Any news on the Mutalith stats?
Honestly, if forgeworld would just do some Tzeentch Themed vehicle sprues, all would be well...
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Post by: demontalons
That’s actually a pretty big deal. Warptime becomes 9 inches and smite 24
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Post by: Ahriman21
Anaxagoras wrote:Cannot express the excitement for this Dex....been playing Thousand Sons for Twenty years. Any news on the Mutalith stats?
Honestly, if forgeworld would just do some Tzeentch Themed vehicle sprues, all would be well...
From what I can gather its 150 points, str 7, T7, 5++ invul save (at least) monster keyword, gives aura buff, 4 melee attacks. however it is worthy to note that during eddies game on twitch stream the mutalith was already on its last leg so its quite possible its stats are better at full health due to degredation. so its all conjecture.
beyond that point; at 150 with a buff aura and decent overall stats? still pretty great sounding honestly, cheaper then any of the demon walkers by a decent margin.
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Post by: drakerocket
Also a pretty big deal for Infernal Gateway and treason.
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Post by: Anaxagoras
Glad I have one painted
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Post by: Latro_
ye assuming TS will have access to maulerfiends...
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Post by: Daedalus81
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Post by: Bulldogging
That's my concern too. It just seems odd they called out Helbrutes but not fiends.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Ahriman21 wrote:we saw like 3 strategems, your goat-hate-lust is worthy of khorne himself.
if 30 rubrics is "at a minimum" then yes sir ill play at that minimum all day! ;-)
No, 30 is the way too much but if you want you can take that.
We will get the shoot in CC Strat.
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Post by: drakerocket
I admit a price cut on rubrics, even a small one, would help a lot. But having a full strength sorc with a wide variety of powers, several of which are useful, might be fine enough to include them. Like, I will want death hex, warptime, gaze of fate, presience and the new illusion power basically every game every round. I want about 3-4 other daemon/dark hereticus powers more situationally. And that's without seeing the other 5 powers.
Their dual role becomes a much bigger deal with all of those powers in play. And it's not impossible that they will get a small points snip: plague marines, noise marines and berzerkers are all good this edition. When was the last time that happened? Maybe GW will for for 4/4.
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Post by: Ahriman21
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:Ahriman21 wrote:we saw like 3 strategems, your goat-hate-lust is worthy of khorne himself.
if 30 rubrics is "at a minimum" then yes sir ill play at that minimum all day! ;-)
No, 30 is the way too much but if you want you can take that.
We will get the shoot in CC Strat.
Disagree sir. Ill take 30 and Ill win plenty of games with it.
I have been since the index came out
You can lament the loss of your rubricae, I haven't lost a single thing with them from list building. only gained. Barring rubrics shooting up in points dramatically they are fine, if anything they are fantastic with strategem and new spell support.
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Post by: Guyver 3
I think we’re just scratching the surface of spell utility, tsons will definatly have a very strong psychic phase and will want to take multiple sorcerers in order to benefit from the 18 powers available,
+6” to range opens up loads more tactics as it will boost the majority of powers, finally my 3 exaulted sorcerers may see some table time!!
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Post by: Zhan
I'm so sad about those warpcharge values. Seriously GW what the
Doombolt WC9
Bolt of Change WC8
Tzeentch firestorm WC9
I mean how are rubrics/scarabs/ DP going to cast this? Only a 25% chance of pulling it off without bonuses to cast. with a 5.5% chance of blowing up.
Holy statistically it actually deals less damage then the 1 wound smite....
Ugh makes me so sad. Still crossing my fingers for some help with casting and some perils protection.....
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Post by: Sasori
Bulldogging wrote:
That's my concern too. It just seems odd they called out Helbrutes but not fiends.
I mean, they likely called out Hellbrutes due to the fact that most of the Thousand Sons are dust, and lacking the marine to be put in a Hellbrute. That's why it is mentioned they have a special explanation for them. There is no reason to think they would not have access to Daemon engines.
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Post by: Ahriman21
Zhan wrote:I'm so sad about those warpcharge values. Seriously GW what the
Doombolt WC9
Bolt of Change WC8
Tzeentch firestorm WC9
I mean how are rubrics/scarabs/ DP going to cast this? Only a 25% chance of pulling it off without bonuses to cast. with a 5.5% chance of blowing up.
Holy statistically it actually deals less damage then the 1 wound smite....
Ugh makes me so sad. Still crossing my fingers for some help with casting and some perils protection.....
Alot of Hereticus is a 6/7 cost to cast, I would imagine doombolt having such utility makes it more expensive, along with us having Cabalistic ritual for a +2 to a given spell being important.
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Post by: Brian888
Zhan wrote:I'm so sad about those warpcharge values. Seriously GW what the
Doombolt WC9
Bolt of Change WC8
Tzeentch firestorm WC9
I mean how are rubrics/scarabs/ DP going to cast this? Only a 25% chance of pulling it off without bonuses to cast. with a 5.5% chance of blowing up.
Holy statistically it actually deals less damage then the 1 wound smite....
Ugh makes me so sad. Still crossing my fingers for some help with casting and some perils protection.....
One way is to let Magnus handle those powers with his casting bonus, and give cheaper utility powers to other sorcerers. Another way is to leverage the Cabalistic Focus stratagem (which I'm sure will port over form the CSM codex).
Speaking of the CSM codex, if we assume that the Tzeentch/Thousand Sons powers in that book are coming over to this codex in addition to Dark Hereticus, the unique Thousand Sons spell list is starting to take shape:
1) Temporal Manipulation - We don't know what this does yet.
2) Weaver of Fates
3) Tzeentch's Firestorm
4) Doombolt
5) Glamour of Tzeentch
6) ??????????
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Post by: Guyver 3
I’m guessing the stratagem for 3 sorcerers nearby getting +2 to cast will make it over from chapter approved! Magnus and Ahriman both have decent casting bonuses, will be a case of some lower casting value powers being used by Sargents while the big boys handle the big powers,
IMO doombolt will go in every one of my lists! Half movement and no advance is just too good
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Post by: Brian888
Guyver 3 wrote:I’m guessing the stratagem for 3 sorcerers nearby getting +2 to cast will make it over from chapter approved! Magnus and Ahriman both have decent casting bonuses, will be a case of some lower casting value powers being used by Sargents while the big boys handle the big powers,
IMO doombolt will go in every one of my lists! Half movement and no advance is just too good
Cast it on anything in Cataphractii armor to slow them down to 2" a round.
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Post by: Arachnofiend
I'm curious about the potential for using Ahriman as a psychic murder machine; Infernal Gaze and Tzeentch's Firestorm are pretty weak psychic powers on their own, but when taking them both and doombolt you have a loooot of sniping potential. Any character within 36" of Ahriman would be under serious threat of just dying with no recourse.
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Post by: Brometheus
Magnus Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit and re-roll 1s for psychic tests
Ahriman Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit.
Ahriman Warlord Trait: +1 invul (so 3++ base)
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Post by: nintura
Sasori wrote: Bulldogging wrote:
That's my concern too. It just seems odd they called out Helbrutes but not fiends.
I mean, they likely called out Hellbrutes due to the fact that most of the Thousand Sons are dust, and lacking the marine to be put in a Hellbrute. That's why it is mentioned they have a special explanation for them. There is no reason to think they would not have access to Daemon engines.
Thats because helbrutes are not always members of your chapter. They also take prisoners and stuff them in it.
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Post by: Arachnofiend
Brometheus wrote:Magnus Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit and re-roll 1s for psychic tests
Ahriman Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit.
Ahriman Warlord Trait: +1 invul (so 3++ base)
So I guess this means that the Exalted Sorcerer aura is re-roll 1s to hit? I'd be more excited if we weren't so heavily encouraged to run a daemon prince anyways to pick up Gaze of Fate, lol.
Great news on the Magnus aura, though.
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Post by: the_scotsman
Arachnofiend wrote: Brometheus wrote:Magnus Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit and re-roll 1s for psychic tests
Ahriman Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit.
Ahriman Warlord Trait: +1 invul (so 3++ base)
So I guess this means that the Exalted Sorcerer aura is re-roll 1s to hit? I'd be more excited if we weren't so heavily encouraged to run a daemon prince anyways to pick up Gaze of Fate, lol.
Great news on the Magnus aura, though.
...you need Gaze of Fate for what exactly?
isn't that the power that was decried as totally worthless when the daemon codex dropped? I certainly don't see a ton of use in it. To me a daemon prince not running diabolic strength is just...doing it wrong...
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Post by: Arachnofiend
the_scotsman wrote: Arachnofiend wrote: Brometheus wrote:Magnus Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit and re-roll 1s for psychic tests
Ahriman Aura: Re-roll 1s to hit.
Ahriman Warlord Trait: +1 invul (so 3++ base)
So I guess this means that the Exalted Sorcerer aura is re-roll 1s to hit? I'd be more excited if we weren't so heavily encouraged to run a daemon prince anyways to pick up Gaze of Fate, lol.
Great news on the Magnus aura, though.
...you need Gaze of Fate for what exactly?
isn't that the power that was decried as totally worthless when the daemon codex dropped? I certainly don't see a ton of use in it. To me a daemon prince not running diabolic strength is just...doing it wrong...
You must be thinking of Infernal Gateway, Gaze of Fate is the power that gives a free dice re-roll every turn.
The Daemon Prince of Tzeentch gets two powers now so you can take Gaze and Diabolic Strength.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Zhan wrote:I'm so sad about those warpcharge values. Seriously GW what the
Doombolt WC9
Bolt of Change WC8
Tzeentch firestorm WC9
I mean how are rubrics/scarabs/ DP going to cast this? Only a 25% chance of pulling it off without bonuses to cast. with a 5.5% chance of blowing up.
Holy statistically it actually deals less damage then the 1 wound smite....
Ugh makes me so sad. Still crossing my fingers for some help with casting and some perils protection.....
I'm going to tell you what other people told me.
Stop whining.
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Post by: Brometheus
No word on exalteds. I got what I got.
Re: Gaze of Fate, I wish Ahriman could take it. It's nice to use it for, say, a predator tank re-rolling lascannon damage without taking a CP from the Thousand Sons stratagems...
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
Would this increase the 3" on Infernal Gateway to 9"?
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Post by: Brometheus
It wouldn't apply to the psychic power's effects, only the range to the unit it's targeting, I think.
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Post by: Thousand-Son-Sorcerer
Brian888 wrote:Zhan wrote:I'm so sad about those warpcharge values. Seriously GW what the
Doombolt WC9
Bolt of Change WC8
Tzeentch firestorm WC9
I mean how are rubrics/scarabs/ DP going to cast this? Only a 25% chance of pulling it off without bonuses to cast. with a 5.5% chance of blowing up.
Holy statistically it actually deals less damage then the 1 wound smite....
Ugh makes me so sad. Still crossing my fingers for some help with casting and some perils protection.....
One way is to let Magnus handle those powers with his casting bonus, and give cheaper utility powers to other sorcerers. Another way is to leverage the Cabalistic Focus stratagem (which I'm sure will port over form the CSM codex).
Speaking of the CSM codex, if we assume that the Tzeentch/Thousand Sons powers in that book are coming over to this codex in addition to Dark Hereticus, the unique Thousand Sons spell list is starting to take shape:
1) Temporal Manipulation - We don't know what this does yet.
2) Weaver of Fates
3) Tzeentch's Firestorm
4) Doombolt
5) Glamour of Tzeentch
6) ??????????
Or we assume they don't. They leave the Weaver of fates and Firestorm as part of the CSM portion and we have all our spells names.
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Post by: Guyver 3
Even though I don’t think it works that way you know someone will try it!!
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