If you had to squat one of the current GW armies who would it be and why?
Conversely if you could introduce a new one (Squats, Hrudd, Dark Mechanics etc) who would it be and why?
I'd probably squat renegades and heretics. Dont think they are fleshed out enough, particularly interesting or viable.
I'd introduce dark mech - a detailed range could be awesome.
Now, in my opinion, I wouldn't scrap any warhammer 40k faction. I think all of them have a place and as some group is gonna like them, I wouldn't whant that group to receive the Bretonian/Tomb Kings threatment.
New factions... expand the Tau auxiliarie ranges. Kroots, Tarellians and Vespids, in small stand alone armies but with a ton of in-built sinergy with the Tau Empire, just like Custodes with Imperium, so they can be both played by themselves, but they work very well as auxiliaries with Tau as a whole.
If I had to then I'd squat the Ynnari, because you don't mess with, alter or advance the Eldar's entire background story ever, ever... ever.
And I'd un-squat Squat because Ancestor Lords are cool and I once trapped an Ork battlewagon, warboss and all, inside a Force Dome for most of a battle. And mole mortars. And exo armour lancers on trikes.
I'd squat IK if i had to choose one. I mean cool and everything, but they play with different rules than the rest of the factions, so they will always be a problem.
As for factions to add i can't think of any, but if they gave me rules for the Tyamat hive fleet...
There are too many tiny branches of "special" guardian marines for me. SO I wouldn't nix any, but combine Grey Knights, Custodes, Death Watch etc into one book (gee, the way it should have been). I might get rid of Ynarri...Eldar have enough fluff background for whole army books they didn't need another...
I second the expand the Tau alien race section. I would love to see armies of vespids with a variety of units. Talk about a faction that screams for psychers and a psychic mother! They're beelike!!! I want Giant Bumblevesids, and assasin bugs, and a royal bodyguard, and princess bug psychers and...and...and...ok done.
I'd remove Custodes, Grey Knights and Deathwatch.
Have them in a single codex to be used as support units.
And I'd get rid of Sisters of Battle just to hear the cries of agony.
I'd add a new race.
Short little guys with a single large eye on a stalk instead of a head. They would be really small so they could be sold 30 in a vox. Their army would revolve around movement and gravity based weapons (slowing opponents down, more damage to heavily armoured units and big vehicles).
They would use light skimmers that scoop them up with magnetic hooks, allowing units to embark and/or disembark anywhere along the path of the skimmer.
This new race would be CODEX: Junkers Guild
A new alien species that disassemble anything they find and repurpose what they can. They are hated by the AdMech because of this. They also have a passion for breaking down space hulls where ever they can fond them.
What would make the army unique would be an even/odd system of rolling. So a certain unit would hit on odds and wound on evens and stuff like that. Their elite units would be heavily armoured and toting shotguns and flamers for clearing out space hulks. I imagine their weaponry as "razor" themed. "Razor beam", "Razor cannon" and so on. They would be so awful in melee but decent in shoot with fantastic mobility. The joke of the army would be terrible leadership and no skill at hand to hand. The razor weapons would be "at half range or lower the strength and ap of the weapon are swapped. So a sregnth 3 ap-1 weapon would be Strength 1 ap-3. Or whatever. It was better with the older weapon stats but I can be messed with.
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Scrap one of the loyalist Space Marine off-shoots. I don't care which... well, maybe Grey Knights can stay. Replace them with Demiurg. Considering how good a job they did on the Kharadron's and that it would end the Squat memes I'm all for it. Plus we need more Xenos.
Scrap Renegades and Heretics. Replace them with non-FW Renegades and Heretics.
Scrap none but combine several of the books into one as others have said. But if i had to squat 1 it would have to be sisters as they were squatted years ago just gw never mentioned it.
I'd rid the world of primaris marines. I just don't see any point in having them introduced, other than money.
Dark mechanics sounds really interesting. I'd bring that in.
And I'd un-squat Squat because Ancestor Lords are cool and I once trapped an Ork battlewagon, warboss and all, inside a Force Dome for most of a battle. And mole mortars. And exo armour lancers on trikes.
I really miss my Exo-armoured Squats. Trikes & Bikes were sooooo much fun to play. Hearthguard kicked ass.
I wouldn't squat all the Marine variants so much as I'd reorganize them. You'd get a core "Space Marines"/"Chaos Space Marines" list with an appendix containing unique characters, units, and rules for every Chapter/Legion, which would be equally distributed rather than giving some of them dozens of unique things in separate books (Space Wolves, I'm looking at you) and some of them f*** all (Iron Hands, Night Lords).
In making them try and write everyone the "same list" it might also make them step back and think about giving everyone more options, and possibly ask some of the hard questions (like "why have all non-Space-Wolf Tactical Marines forgotten what chainswords are?", or "why are some Terminators stuck with powerfists and others aren't?").
We have Sigmarines. It's just ours are covered in eagles and have bolter-spears and crested helmets.
I mean sure custodes kinda have the core part of sigmarines in being giant super awesome warriors in solid gold armor. But they are missing the stuff that truly makes them awesome, like having your commanders mounted on dragons or giant angel wings.
We have Sigmarines. It's just ours are covered in eagles and have bolter-spears and crested helmets.
I mean sure custodes kinda have the core part of sigmarines in being giant super awesome warriors in solid gold armor. But they are missing the stuff that truly makes them awesome, like having your commanders mounted on dragons or giant angel wings.
People already complain about the amount of Marine armies in the game we don't need more.
We have Sigmarines. It's just ours are covered in eagles and have bolter-spears and crested helmets.
I mean sure custodes kinda have the core part of sigmarines in being giant super awesome warriors in solid gold armor. But they are missing the stuff that truly makes them awesome, like having your commanders mounted on dragons or giant angel wings.
To each his own. Personally I like the jetbikes, skimmer tanks, and laser-spear Dreadnaughts a lot better than any dragons.
I'd squat primaris marines, uninteresting mary sue marines, and cawl with them. Marines have enough diffrent flavours to cater to a lot of different people, and I'm not against adding different flavour marines, it's just that primaris don't add anything interesting, and even take away flavourfull flaws (blood angels for example).
I wouldn't add another faction, but rather flesh out all the xenos races, they desperately need it compared to the imperium. (and maby dark mechanichum)
Can't think of much TO squat. Swolves are kinda out there so maybe them.
Need more Xenos, though. Something different, like Centaur-esque or something. May or may not be Tau axillary.
Weren't there a few sizable Human factions that were neither Chaos or Imperium? May be treading on "moar borin' humanz", but that would be kinda cool to have.
Squat the Inquisition. They don't have enough unit variety and while they are cool as part of the 40k background I don't think they need a tabletop army. Save them for RPG's or something.
I would support adding Tau Auxiliaries as their own faction (s). We already have some Kroot stuff, but they could come up with more for them. Same with Vespids. Maybe add Gue'vesa or even Demiurgs (they are a Tau auxiliary, right?).
Also, bring Khorne Daemonkin back for 8th edition. I loved them in 7th even though they weren't super competitive.
I wouldn't scrap anything already existing, but I would really like if GW could stop being so boringly Imperial-centric and go wild in introducing all kinds of Xenos factions and subfactions. There is so much space for those, a lot more than with "space marines of another color with tiny little difference in size, shape or favourite weapon"...
And for starters GW could start with Exodites and proper Eldar Pirates/Corsairs.
If GW insists on doing (almost) all-Imperium-vs-Chaos game, then let it at least be with more Mechanicus, more Inquisition, more non-power-armour factions...
Squat Necrons, replace with Men of Iron. Way better backstory for a roboman army.
(If I were actually in charge of this stuff, I would not squat any of the existing armies, too many people like each of them, inexplicably, even the Necrons. At most I might combine some of the armies in the same codex.)
I'd be comfortable ditching any of the "side show" armies which don't really justify a codex and could easily be tossed in with another book (Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Harlequins, GSC). So while I wouldn't knock them out of existence, they don't justify their own books.
Ynnari needs to be a new direction (which I'd probably hate) or go away. Or fold the characters into a normal codex, again it's a kind of not-army? I'd actually be okay losing Orks too. Despite their history they're really not much of a story point and add nothing to the grand scheme of the story. It's just a "oh, look...a big WAAAAGH" whenever its convenient. If we were talking about major races, I don't think I'd miss them much.
Adding a faction? I'd like to see a book for a powerful Rogue Trader and his army of mercenaries/miscreants including rogue/mercenary Space Marines (like the good ole' days), and introduce some unique or historic alien factions. I don't know how you'd make it into a proper army, but it would be slick for narrative purposes.
Id scrap blood angel, dark angel and space wolves as stand alone dex armies. Just roll them into the apace marine book with a couple unique entries for em.
Grey knights, SoB, assassins and death watch id roll in together with inquisition to make a big Inquisition/chamber militant book.
Squat primaris, i dont need more marines to kill in my sleep.
Roll GSC into niddy dex.
As much as i hate tau, i like to see their alien federation expanded- super tech and big suits is boring. I wanna see strange aliens that need purging.
Scrap deathwatch, the fluff is they rarely fight in large scale formations, so they would be better as a booster to imperium armies rather than being their own army.
Build non-chaos aligned entities of the warp. We know they exists, and have rules for some of them like saint celestine, or the legion of the damned. Maybe take a step back from the IoM entirely and bring the seraphon, ancient beings of the warp free to rumble in the materium thanks to the cicatrix maledictum.
Elbows wrote: I
Ynnari needs to be a new direction (which I'd probably hate) or go away. Or fold the characters into a normal codex, again it's a kind of not-army? I'd actually be okay losing Orks too. Despite their history they're really not much of a story point and add nothing to the grand scheme of the story. It's just a "oh, look...a big WAAAAGH" whenever its convenient. If we were talking about major races, I don't think I'd miss them much.
Ynnari are hard. The idea of the story moving forward is great, but the way it's been implemented was pretty haphazard. GW has teased that they might even get their own codex, and I have no idea if I'd even want to see that...and I'm a big Eldar fanboy. I think it needs to be looked at again and probably reworked. Especially after their massive nerf via the FAQ.
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Id scrap blood angel, dark angel and space wolves as stand alone dex armies. Just roll them into the apace marine book with a couple unique entries for em.
Grey knights, SoB, assassins and death watch id roll in together with inquisition to make a big Inquisition/chamber militant book.
Squat primaris, i dont need more marines to kill in my sleep.
Roll GSC into niddy dex.
As much as i hate tau, i like to see their alien federation expanded- super tech and big suits is boring. I wanna see strange aliens that need purging.
Other than the fact that I like Tau, I agree wholeheartedly. If GW wants to encourage people mixing up armies, then they really should just roll more factions together. Having a codex be a barrier to buying 5 grey knights is not good for sales.
P.S. Kroot being playable as a standalone force would be amazing (just keep them in codex tau)
Fold all eldar into one codex.
Use the existing sub-flavors similar to the daemon codex with shared stratagems and then a set of stratagem, relics and warlord traits for the given group.
So, wytch cult, harlequin, aspect warriors, ect.
Squatting - ac yep, just came out, but it should have been talons of the emperor.
The whole thing should be redone as an event once all the other codices have been put out. Set the campaign with girlyman and the imperium getting their teeth kicked in and an incursion of nid on Terra. Along side a return to Armageddon. The cheeky tau getting uppity again and taking planets running head long into necrons so they can have a happy spat. All while chaos is pushing girlyman back to ultramar with massive demonic incursions across every planet spear headed by mortarion just dumping nurgles gifts and scooting to the next planet. Allowing the hiveworld's populations to fall to nurgle.
Then unleash the grumpy janitors to clean up girlyman of the plot armor's giant mess.
New faction a return of the old ones, or at least those claiming to be old ones.
Scrap Chaos daemons and all chaos subfactions (leave heretic astartes) and then double back and RE-delete Slaanesh, just to make absolutely sure.
Add...Female marines, not because I actually give a crap about female marines one way or another(because I really, really, really don't.) But because the nerd-rage would be sooooo delicious.
I support squatting Cawl. Also squat Guilliman and Magnus. if you can't make an army that works without giving them a giant special character that has to be in every list to make them competitive don't bother.
Squat Deathwatch; they aren't an army, they're the A-team and should be a Kill team size game only.
I'm not sure what I would add - possibly an army from the Dark Age of Technology - the various ascended animals of Earth (Wolf men, Cat folk, Ape men [ala Karmans from AT-43] with high tech exo-suits and stilt-tanks [like those seen in Godzilla: Monster Planet]).
The army could be used on its own or as Imperial or Tau Auxiliaries.
I wouldn't Squat any army. because frankly it's not fair to tell someone an army they might like is crap etc.
that said I suppose I'd "Squat" inqusition as a stand alone codex, and rather roll them into other codices by merging inquistion with grey Knights for an ordo malleus codex, death watch for an ordo xenos codex. aaaand giving ordos hereticis a bit more love by developing a brand new order millitant just for them. (let sisters stay as purely the military arm of the eclisiarchy)
I think Ynnari should either die or be expanded. They could be nice with a few units of their own, and a limited access (as opposed to the almost full access they have now) to the other Eldar codex. The way they are now, they're just very bland.
There's no particular faction I would want to get rid of. I don't really care for the many flavors of space marine, or the new custodes, but I don't mind them either.
What I would love to see, as new model lines, would be Kroots (I really liked FW's approach, with some cavalry and a big MC with herders). Otherwise a completely new faction, like Rak'Gol or some space rats or lizards.
I would also love if GW created rules without models, mostly for inquisition. Inquisitorial warbands should be unique (they're not homogeneous like a standard army), and the vast humanoid range already offers great kitbash opportunities. It could also work for Ynnari, as most of the Aeldari and AoS elf ranges are compatible. It's unlikely, but the GK grand master in dreadknight gives a slim hope.
Squat all sub factions, so stuff blood angels, dark angels and space corgis into one book, then add grey knights, death watch and Inquisition into one book, stuff primaris, sisters of silence and custodions into one book along with gilliuman.
add rak'gouls as a new xeno's face and give all xeno races new models and lots more love.
Ditch the Flanderised Marines and have a non Codex Adherent book instead so we could actually have units that are not Wolfy Wolfy Wolf WOLLFFFF for Space Wolves and the same for DA and BA plus Raven guard infiltration / sniper squads etc
Add Tau Auxiliaries.
Finish Ad Mech - transports , air support, HQs Sisters of Battle - make the fething models.
I support squatting Cawl. Also squat Guilliman and Magnus. if you can't make an army that works without giving them a giant special character that has to be in every list to make them competitive don't bother.
Sounds like a great way to make people who bought them angry.
Did they go away? I'd swear Exodites were A Thing in 3e?
Exodites had a single "Exodites Knights" entry in 2nd ed codex and it was the last time they had any official rules. Other than that they are on permanent "count as" conversions treatment.
I would not be opposed to a Codex: Inquisition, with 3 large chapters concerning the large Ordos: Ordo Malleus together with Grey Knights, Ordo Xenos with Deathwatch, Ordo Hereticus with... some sort of support. Add Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and various transports (Rhinos, Land Raiders etc) and other support units (Assassins and whatever other stuff you can come up with) for all of them.
Every Detatchment can have some sort of Ordo tactic and specific strategems. Add generic strategems and the other sort. Done.
Note that this book will probably be rather massive, as I don't think you should really remove options from GK or DW. Just a heads up.
Next up, Codex Sisters. DOn't think I have to explain that one. You could MAYBE roll that one into the Inq-codex, but I think it would be more appropiate for them to have their own book.
Next up, I don't know. Maybe expand the Tau? Add a new Xenos race? I relatively open for everything.
I'd quite like to see militarum tempestus expanded into a full army. Or maybe an expansion of all the IG auxiliary stuff into one codex, with inquisition etc added in.
Or an all-female space marine army, as already mentioned, for the nerd-rage
I support squatting Cawl. Also squat Guilliman and Magnus. if you can't make an army that works without giving them a giant special character that has to be in every list to make them competitive don't bother.
Sounds like a great way to make people who bought them angry.
Almost as much as making Space Marines/AdMech/Thousand Sons "buy this one big model you may or may not like or lose" does.
(This entire thread consists of people suggesting things that'd make people who bought certain armies angry. This isn't new or interesting information.)
I'd scrap all the ministorum/inquistion related minifactions:
Grey Knights
Inquisition
Sisters of Battle/Silence
Adeptus Ministorum
DeathWatch
I'd then create a new faction and add a unit for cheap melee-oriented religious zealots that can move and die in droves. It'd be so much better to have just one faction for the whole 'faith of the IOM' theme instead of all these mini-factions that share support amongst a small player base.
I don't think I'd add anything. There are too many factions as it stands. We currently go years in between releases for certain factions. Realistically speaking, when will the next model release be for Necrons? ...for Tau Empire? ...for Genestealer Cults? Until GW can support it's existing factions with timely new product releases, I'm not interested in seeing new factions. Adeptes Custodes are cool and all, but their release means that every other faction in the game has to wait at least an extra month for it's next release.
Realistically speaking, you'd want a limited number of factions... say, 6 to 8 or so. Right now, we have upwards of 40. Then, you'd want them to each have roughly the same number of units. One major issue with 40k right now is that the game is split into 7 "top level factions"...
1. Imperium - a kajillion subfactions
2. Chaos - a ton of subfactions
3. Eldar - several subfactions
4. Tyranids - no subfactions
5. Orks - no subfactions
6. Tau Empire - no subfactions
7. Necrons - no subfactions
The Imperium top level faction has a TON of units compared to something like Necrons... and yet, we continue to get MORE Imperium units. Space Marines have their core army, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Deathwatch and Grey Knights, each as fully fleshed out armies with plenty of unique, non-HQ units. Necrons have zero. Tau have zero. Tyranids have zero. Orks have zero.
I get that dudes in Power Armor pay the rent, but decades of prioritizing Imperium units has gotten us to a point where army option balance is ludicrous. Imperium players can do pretty much anything. Xenos players have comparatively few options.
What I'd really love to see is for the Imperium to go on hold for a year or two while the other armies are bulked out significantly. THEN, once there is a little more balance, each of the 7 top level factions gets SOMETHING at least once every 6 months.
Hmm... there are too many imperium factions, and too much power armor. I'd probably squat Death Watch/Adeptus Custodes/Grey Knights into one book along with the inquisition stuff.
Sisters I'd leave alone. While imperial and power armor, they aren't space marines, and they could be really interesting if done right.
I'd want to add either Lost and the Damned (basically, chaos scum: renegade IG, mutants, plague zombies, etc.) for another chaos faction, or another xenos faction. I say re-invent the Demiurge/Squats as a freewheeling alien species that trades with anybody and fights for any other xenos race, expect nids. Play up their durability, their rough and ready weaponry, and boom! I'd buy it!
For Ynnari, they don't need to be their own army. Just give them both Craftworlds and Drukhari factions like Cypher and the Fallen have for Imperium and Chaos and make Soulburst an aura ability for the Avatar of Ynnead.
Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves can be worked into a slight longer Codex: Space Marines.
Assassins, Inquisition, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Sisters of Battle can all be rolled into different units in an "Imperial Agents" book.
For expanding, we need more Xenos, so add some more Kroot units and a Master Shaper HQ and allow independent Kroot Mercenary lists with their own doctrine bonuses separate from Tau (can still be in the same Codex though).
I'd roll up the various stand alone space marine factions into one book (BA, DA, SW's), combine GK's, DW, and the Inquisition into one. Combine all four chaos standalone legions (WE, DG, TS, and EC) into one book.
I'd like to add more weird options to the IG, and expand both the Sisters of Battle/ministorum and Adeptus Mechanicus.
For new factions: Dark Mechanicus, Rogue Traders, Expanded Yinnari, one with it's own actual units, and exodites for eldar. Expanded orks ("regular" warband orks, and the ork empires), Expand Kroot into a playable faction (inside the Tau book). Add Necron subfactions. More then just a regimental docterine, such as: Courts (standard Necrons), flayer courts, C'Tan cults, and Rogue Robots as some possible examples. More minor Xenos, expansion in part to the ones in/around the Tau (not all vespid have to be sting wings), and other xenos around the imperium.
Another possibility is non-imperial human worlds. Ones cut off and only just being rediscovered. Some access to dark age of technology, but maybe not the whole show. Would be hard to differentiate from Tau though.
Even as a space marine player, dark angels in particular.... scrap the shoot off codex's, put them in codex marines already, I've changed opinions of this over the years and now I'm in the "combine" camp.
In return give us a codex "Xenos and mercenaries" and release all kinds of odd little races and merc units, not well thought out but I want some variety
BrianDavion wrote: maybe just maybe there are so many power armor subfactions because they sell?
Chicken and egg. Are they better-supported because they sell better, or do they sell better because they're better-supported?
They where made what they are because since Warhammer Fantasy hulking men clad in plate armour where the most sold units. So yeah I believe Space Marines where popular before being better supported.
Blame the 80's and 90's fans and theyr Heavy Metal/Rock's plate armour fetish.
Has GW go too far with the SPace Marines favoritism in detriment of other miniature ranges? Yes they are. But they are as most companies out there, very risk averse. So they doubled down in what was easy money for them.
Build the Exodites (more numerous than all the Harlequins, Craftworlders+colonies, and dark elder combined according to the fluff...and they are not stagnating, thus Thriving....the only eldar to do so)
Squat: Craftworld Eldar. I don't think the designers are capable of writing a balanced Eldar codex. I don't think GW will ever learn to stop giving min/maxed Eldar units enormous point discounts. It's better to just flush 'em all away.
New army: Craftworld Orks. Orks killed the Eldar and looted the craftworlds. Now we have new plastic Ork versions of all of the aspect warriors and Ork hover tanks. By combining Orks and Eldar, we also end up with a perfectly balanced army.
To be fair, one could consider Genestealer cults as a Tyranid subfaction. I do for one.
But I agree that Xenos need more support from GW, even though we were warned that it was was IoM/Chaos time.
I'd squat Grey Knight, Deathwatch and Custodes for obvious reasons. As much as I love at least the first two, they have simply no place in a wargame.
Deatchwatch for example are killteams supposed to fight only xenos, not an army.
Without considering the fluff but only for modeling/gaming purpose, I'd bring at least one subfaction to armies that does not have one.
For Tau it's rather obvious : auxiliaries of the empire. For Orks and Necrons it might be a bit more tricky.
I'm sure someone could come up with a fun idea for Orks, another species discovered and becoming 'Da Best Krumpin' Friend' (orks would love fight alongside it when they have another ennemy, or against it if not).
Or simply a stand alone Grot Army with more models. With all the projects of grot army I see, I'm sure it would work commercially.
But for Necron I really have no idea (could ally with Men of Iron I suppose ?).
Deatchwatch for example are killteams supposed to fight only xenos, not an army.
To be fair, most armies are fielding a reinforced platoon at best, Maybe a "company" with IG, Orcs, or Nids.
Having DW, or GK's (at least to me), are justifiable on the idea that those are the only ones on a planet, while the larger armies have other forces fighting elsewhere off board.
pm713 wrote: Scrap Custodes. They seem very out of place to me. Bodyguards that roam the Galaxy.
I'd return Eldar Corsairs and add Exodites.
Second this.
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Pink Horror wrote: Squat: Craftworld Eldar. I don't think the designers are capable of writing a balanced Eldar codex. I don't think GW will ever learn to stop giving min/maxed Eldar units enormous point discounts. It's better to just flush 'em all away.
New army: Craftworld Orks. Orks killed the Eldar and looted the craftworlds. Now we have new plastic Ork versions of all of the aspect warriors and Ork hover tanks. By combining Orks and Eldar, we also end up with a perfectly balanced army.
Probably Deathwatch. I wasn't around when they hit in 7th and I frankly don't see the point to fielding them in 8th - it's pretty much like fielding an army of Fallen. Flavorful, but useless ruleswise.
What I would add? Probably a lot of orks clans, each with their own characters, model ranges and upgrade sprues:
- Ultraorks specialized on tactics(punching others) and politics (also punching others).
- Kult of the Arch Arsonist, who specialize in setting everything on fire, but are nice to their gretchin.
- Black Orks, who are very angry and don't follow Thrakka's great Waaagh! but fight who they want, where they want. They also killed all their weird boyz.
- Da Uther Kult of Speed. Like the first one, but they think white goes fasta.
- Krimson Krumpas, who are very poor since their big base was blown up by the imperium (at least that's what the surviving gretchin claim) and are now looting everything they can to rebuild the glory of their klan.
- Blood Teef have lost their beloved warboss and have been on an uncontrolled rampage to avenge him (or just because). Their storm boyz have golden rokkits strapped to their back.
- Murder Klaws like to fight and drink and fight. Some of them have mutated and grown a fur-like body hair due to some really bad fungus beer.
- Silent 'uns. They don't talk, but they punch you really, really hard if you do. And then they set you on fire.
- Weird Stuff Killas are traveling the universe on their rokk to discover new things and kill them.
Scrap a faction: There should only be the following factions in the game:
Chaos (CSM, Traitors, Daemons, Daemon World from 2nd), Tyranids (Bugs & Genestealer Cult), Space Marines (only one codex; only two special units for each of the big four), Imperial Guard, Imperial Agents (SoB, Inquisitors, Assassins, Grey Knights - only one squad in terminator armour, etc.), Eldar (includes Harlequins) and Orks (includes Feral Orks).
Build a faction: Here is an old post of mine:
Codex Galactic Uber Horrors
Five Galactic Uber Horrors (GUH) should be included in the next release from GW.
They rival Imperial Knights in size.
The GUHs can be included in your 40K games in three ways:
1. Cataclysmic Event: One or several GUHs enter the game randomly and wreak havoc upon the opposing armies. The GUHs use the rules for Reserves and Deep Strike.
Both players roll a D6 and the winner places the GUH anywhere on the board but not in the deployment zone of a player. Reroll any ties. If more than one GUH is used they are alternatingly placed by both players and start to attack the nearest opposing unit.
2. Rampage: One player takes control of one or several GUHs and tries to demolish as many gothic skyscrapers as possible. The other player tries to stop him with a conventional 40K army that defends its home/city/ hive.
3. Imperial Kights (Renegade): The GUHs can fight each other or against other suitable units for this game.
List of GUHs in Codex Galactic Uber Horrors:
Seraphon Prime
Appearance: Gigantic firebreathing lizard walking on hindlegs.
Kit Options: Three different heads (Firebreather, bites victim head off (SM, Ork or Eldar) and swallows victim whole (Cadian guardsman, CSM or Genestealer)), three different tails, three different objects held in hand (rock, lamp post or kiosk) and three different objects being trampled under Foot (cadian guardsman, SM Rhino or Daemon Prince).
Emperor Kong
Appearance: Gigantic ape.
Kit Options: Three different heads (orangutan, gorilla & chimpanzee), three different objects held in hand (caucasian woman, huge banana, or tree) and three different objects being trampled under Foot (cadian guardsman, SM Rhino or Daemon Prince). Also included: Caucasian woman on foot.
Note: It is obligatory that the woman is a blonde.
Arachnia
Appearance: Gigantic furry spider.
Kit Options: Three different heads, three different abdomen and a plethora of various webbed victims & small vehicles or GMC.
Glob
Appearance: Gigantic gelatinous cube.
Kit Options: Three different sets of partially digested victims (Space Marine, Ork & Eldar Infantry and parts of corroded SM Rhino, Ork Trukk & Eldar Wave Serpent).
50 Foot Woman
Appearance: Gigantic caucasian woman in skimpy outfit.
Kit Options: Three different head options (Bettie Page, Marilyn Monroe & Jane Russel), three different objects held in hand (cheating husband, civilian car or advertisement board) and three different objects being trampled under High Heel (cheating husband, Leman Russ, Hive Tyrant).
I'd put all the marines in a book. Or maybe at least Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Black Templar. There's enough overlap there that there's no reason why they couldn't be combined, just like how they do with special characters for subfactions of armies now. And I say that having some 3000-4000 points of marines.
GK would probably be its own book merged back in with ordo malleus. You could maybe include deathwatch and Ordos Xenos, but I'm on the fence about that.
I'd probably cut custodes. Those guys are supposed to be on Terra guarding the capital e, not roaming the universe beating up Green Starter Box Marines.
I'd probably combine Ministorum, Sisters of Battle, and Sisters of Silence along with Ordo Hereticus.
Chaos and Xenos are fine though. There's not enough Xenos factions as-is.
...well, maybe get rid of Tau, because they're goofy and don't make sense in 40kays and most importantly I gain power from the tears of Tau fanboys. Really, my ideal canon would have the Squats alive still and just hibernating, and then they awaken with a sudden hunger and wind up devouring all of the Tau.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Remove: Tau, I find their kinda happy ways and aesthetic completely removed from 40k.
Add: Codex: Gretchin Revolution.
Tau are a heck of a lot more grimdark than Orks/Grots and their slapstick humor. Farsight is being kept alive by some arcane technology in his sword that steals the life essence of his enemies and adds it to his own. He has no idea that this is happening and would probably kill himself if he did know. He and his crew are really the only ones who know what the larger universe is like. Namely, they know about Chaos. The rest of the Empire is kept generally naive by the Etheral caste. Member species like the Kroot and Vespids are really just fodder.
Orks/Grots are the comedic relief of the 40k universe. They're not particularly grimdark.
Having said that, I don't think I'd want a separate Codex: Grots, but I would LOVE to see at least one generic and one named Grot HQ and some other non-Troops Grot units. Grot Rokkit Riders as a Fast Attack/Biker choice. Grot Commandos (with hilarious models) as an Elites choice. Flesh out Codex: Orks with some extra choices AND add a new build at the same time.
Kriswall wrote: Tau are a heck of a lot more grimdark than Orks/Grots and their slapstick humor. Farsight is being kept alive by some arcane technology in his sword that steals the life essence of his enemies and adds it to his own. He has no idea that this is happening and would probably kill himself if he did know. He and his crew are really the only ones who know what the larger universe is like. Namely, they know about Chaos. The rest of the Empire is kept generally naive by the Etheral caste. Member species like the Kroot and Vespids are really just fodder.
Orks/Grots are the comedic relief of the 40k universe. They're not particularly grimdark.
I don't find anything that you just mentioned grimdark. Guy with nasty sword but he doesn't know it's nasty!. Meh, it would be much more interesting if he did. Again I don't find the fact that the majority of the race is kept in the dark about Chaos particularly grimdark either. I guess I find it hard to sympathise for fodder that resembles insects and lizardmen.
In comparison Orks are certainly the comic relief of 40k but their humour is incredibly grimdark and morbid. They laugh when their mates blow themselves up, they laugh when they injure themselves, they laugh when they kill themselves. They place no value, no value whatsoever, on life. Including their own. That to me is far more horrific than the idea of a nasty sword or uppity enslavers keeping their slaves in the dark.
I started playing 40k before the Tau existed and I have no doubt this colours my opinion of them. The same is true of the Dark Eldar but they have grown on me.
ChargerIIC wrote: Read the Damocles gulf novels. Dear lord those are some murder happy hippies.
I'm not interested in them at all, they bore me man.
Marmatag wrote: I would scrap Sisters of Battle, just to see the tides of salt on these forums.
Nice, but room for improvement. According to the OP you get to create as well as destroy.
Give sisters their codex, including plastic everything (fresh sculpts) and perhaps even a new unit/character or two. Announce it a month or two in advance. Then, after seven days of teases, when the pre-orders are about to go live, when every interested party is spamming f5, that's when you squat 'em.
An Actual Englishman wrote:
I don't find anything that you just mentioned grimdark. Guy with nasty sword but he doesn't know it's nasty!. Meh, it would be much more interesting if he did. Again I don't find the fact that the majority of the race is kept in the dark about Chaos particularly grimdark either. I guess I find it hard to sympathise for fodder that resembles insects and lizardmen.
Yeah, there's no terrible decisions to be made. No horrible truths to deal with. There's no consequences. It may as well just be a magic sunshine sword that keeps him alive through secreting lavender oils and giving him butterfly kisses. What would be grimdark is someone telling him and him making the hard decision about how to deal with it. What would be grimdark is him deciding to go with it and keep doing what he's doing.
In comparison Orks are certainly the comic relief of 40k but their humour is incredibly grimdark and morbid. They laugh when their mates blow themselves up, they laugh when they injure themselves, they laugh when they kill themselves. They place no value, no value whatsoever, on life. Including their own. That to me is far more horrific than the idea of a nasty sword or uppity enslavers keeping their slaves in the dark.
Orks are violently happy and excitable and have wholesale warfare as basically their only occupation or job.. They're the Joker of the 40k universe. They're capital G Grimdark. They probably scare me more than the creepiest of body horror out of any other faction. Other factions do it because they need to in order to survive, or they're commanded to, or they're trying to survive. The orks are doing it for funzies
Here's a litmus test:
Do they lobotomize their citizens, attach drug injectors to them, and graft weaponry onto them? Do they run off with slaves and do questionable things to them? They're probably grimdark.
Do they have magic swords that have no consequences that affect them that they're aware of, and keep their underclasses mostly ignorant and treated somewhat like animals? That's not grimdark, that's basically the last 300 years in any real-life civilization.
They get Imperial forces and worlds to flip, then basically work their population to death.
I mean, that's bad. I still don't think it's grimdark. Maybe I'm cynical (I am), but I just don't think anything that's happened enough throughout real history can be inherently grimdark.
I'd remove every named character from ever army. I'd squat the Inquisition, Grey knights, assassins, Sisters of Battle, Custodians and Imperial Knights.
An Actual Englishman wrote:
I don't find anything that you just mentioned grimdark. Guy with nasty sword but he doesn't know it's nasty!. Meh, it would be much more interesting if he did. Again I don't find the fact that the majority of the race is kept in the dark about Chaos particularly grimdark either. I guess I find it hard to sympathise for fodder that resembles insects and lizardmen.
Yeah, there's no terrible decisions to be made. No horrible truths to deal with. There's no consequences. It may as well just be a magic sunshine sword that keeps him alive through secreting lavender oils and giving him butterfly kisses. What would be grimdark is someone telling him and him making the hard decision about how to deal with it. What would be grimdark is him deciding to go with it and keep doing what he's doing.
In comparison Orks are certainly the comic relief of 40k but their humour is incredibly grimdark and morbid. They laugh when their mates blow themselves up, they laugh when they injure themselves, they laugh when they kill themselves. They place no value, no value whatsoever, on life. Including their own. That to me is far more horrific than the idea of a nasty sword or uppity enslavers keeping their slaves in the dark.
Orks are violently happy and excitable and have wholesale warfare as basically their only occupation or job.. They're the Joker of the 40k universe. They're capital G Grimdark. They probably scare me more than the creepiest of body horror out of any other faction. Other factions do it because they need to in order to survive, or they're commanded to, or they're trying to survive. The orks are doing it for funzies
Here's a litmus test:
Do they lobotomize their citizens, attach drug injectors to them, and graft weaponry onto them? Do they run off with slaves and do questionable things to them? They're probably grimdark.
Do they have magic swords that have no consequences that affect them that they're aware of, and keep their underclasses mostly ignorant and treated somewhat like animals? That's not grimdark, that's basically the last 300 years in any real-life civilization.
They get Imperial forces and worlds to flip, then basically work their population to death.
I mean, that's bad. I still don't think it's grimdark. Maybe I'm cynical (I am), but I just don't think anything that's happened enough throughout real history can be inherently grimdark.
Farsight is not grimdark. He's alongside Eldrad and the Salamanders one of the only really good guys of the galaxy.
Tau are pale in comparison with the rest of the setting, but in any other universe like Star WARS, Star Trek, Mass Effect, etc... they would be the bad guys. Heck, they are basically the Covenant from HALO. A union of alien species build upon the idea of the Greater Good, a religious dogma implanted by a rreligious caste that leads the whole thing. They both want to "enlight" the galaxy.
I think I'd scrap Deathwatch. Space Marines are pretty Elite, can we stop with elite elite armies?
Id introduce an Actual Insect army, nids are similar to bugs but they clearly are not insects. Similar to vespids but on a grander scale something like the collectors from mass effect 2. They were pretty Grimdark, crushing up people to make constructs
I'll never understand why people take "grimdark" so seriously. Why does everything have to be grimdark to "fit"? The whole setting is silly. Nothing has to make sense or fit. Unless y'all are just joking and I missed it.
Anyway, I'd squat named characters in an instant and replace them with generic models. That'll cut down on clutter.
Captain Joystick wrote: Scrap Space Marines, all of them. They're boring, their rules are weak, and evidently upsetting paying customers is justification enough.
Replace with: nothing. Scrap Chaos too.
This needs a /s. Please tell me you're being sarcastic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strg Alt wrote: Scrap a faction: There should only be the following factions in the game: Chaos (CSM, Traitors, Daemons, Daemon World from 2nd), Tyranids (Bugs & Genestealer Cult), Space Marines (only one codex; only two special units for each of the big four), Imperial Guard, Imperial Agents (SoB, Inquisitors, Assassins, Grey Knights - only one squad in terminator armour, etc.), Eldar (includes Harlequins) and Orks (includes Feral Orks).
Also /s?
And for my own, I'd roll most of the mini codexes into the bigger factions, and fill out the tau axillaries.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also also, read Farsight: Crisis of Faith for a proper view of grimdark Tau. Or Fire Caste, which is a) actually told from the IG's view, and b) is the best 40k novel I've ever read, as in it would be an incredible book on its own, whereas almost all other 40k books are merely explorations of the universe.
Captain Joystick wrote: Scrap Space Marines, all of them. They're boring, their rules are weak, and evidently upsetting paying customers is justification enough.
Replace with: nothing. Scrap Chaos too.
This needs a /s. Please tell me you're being sarcastic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also also, read Farsight: Crisis of Faith for a proper view of grimdark Tau. Or Fire Caste, which is a) actually told from the IG's view, and b) is the best 40k novel I've ever read, as in it would be an incredible book on its own, whereas almost all other 40k books are merely explorations of the universe.
Probably a reference to the fact that some lovely people are citing - "make people salty / cry" as a good justification for squatting factions.
Farsight: Crisis of Face was awesome - really enjoyed that novel
Introduce: Imperial martyrs. Legion of the damned, Sanguinas, martyrs called back to serve the Emperor in the darkest hour. Roll this into sisters of battle and release plastic sisters, legion of the damned upgrade sprue in plastic, new sisters vehicle kit, big Sanguinas kit. New codex.
I don't think that there's anything that I'd completely eliminate, but like a lot of other users I'd like to see the Inquisition and the "elite of the elite" armies like Grey Knights, Deathwatch combined into a single larger codex. This would make it easier for those armies to have the tools necessary to survive, and I think it could also lead to some pretty awesome modeling opportunities.
Scrap any mention of Scions/MT being their own faction. That was a stupid cash-grab from GW that hasn’t fully been retconned. If Scions don’t count then scrap Harlequins and have Ynnari replace them as the go-betweens for the Eldar. Add Squats as a (relatively) serious faction this time.
Orks/Grots are the comedic relief of the 40k universe. They're not particularly grimdark.
Orks are only funny because you're looking at them as an outside observer. Imagine living on a planet that gets invaded by them. They cannot be reasoned with in many conventional ways. People could get rounded up to get made into slaves or perform the "burny dance" Others get shot or chopped apart simply because it amuses the creature doing it. They will overrun your world and murder every single thing in their path, simply because their culture encourages it and they enjoy it. Orks are fething terrifying from an in-universe perspective. They are the Orkification of Grimdark.
I don't play Orcs (helped paint an ork army ages ago and that scared me out of ever doing that again), but I thought they were interesting for their outside perspective alone. Other cultures fight because their gods compel them, or for honor or to save their race. Orks fight because it's AMAZING. Even getting blown apart is right-good fun.
BrianDavion wrote: maybe just maybe there are so many power armor subfactions because they sell?
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy though. GW only produce power armour armies and updates, so all people buy is power armour, so they only produce more power armour.
It's the same issue as WHFB. They barely supported it, so nobody bought anything, therefore they killed it for lack of sales... then acted so shocked at the End Times they started SUPPORTING IT and good lord they actually SOLD STUFF. By then it was too late for Fantasy, but since they're supporting AoS FAR more than they did WHFB it's doing better. It would be the same way with Xenos. As the Death Guard/Thousand Sons/Daemon releases have shown for Chaos, if you produce it, they will cometh.
daedalus wrote: I still don't think I've heard a rationalization for why the custodes decided to stop protecting E-Money..
The Emperor tell them to stop being in the Imperial Palace. The 300 companions remain here, the rest have gone to the galaxy to do things, go with Guilliman, etc... Is not like 9700 custodes are ALL out of Terra, Terra remains their "main base".
And is not like Custodes didn't did anything in the 10.000 years from HH to 40k. They did things... secret things.
pm713 wrote: Secret things sounds like "We can't think of anything to back up reversing our lore but you should go along with it".
From established lore we know they spend their downtime engaging in training exercises ("blood games") to probe holes in their own defenses, we know that the Emperor deployed them to act as his proxies in some cases (the detachment keeping an eye on Lorgar in First Heretic), they engaged in/supported covert ops of one sort or another in connection with the Assassinorium (Valdor collecting and briefing the strike force from Nemesis off-planet), and they had a combat-ready response force to deploy to beat up Magnus when Guilliman arrived on Luna. We also know that the Imperial dungeons are full of strange and mysterious machinery that one foe or another might have had an interest in getting ahold of, so it's entirely conceivable that Eldar, Chaos, Necrons, the Dark Mechanicum, et cetera may have been trying to sneak agents down there over the last ten thousand years and the Custodes have actually been necessary to keep the place secure against incursions that weren't full-scale invasions.
So "secret things" may just be literally referring to "black ops too small-scale and fiddly for us to talk about with our 'models on the tabletop for a 40k game or it didn't happen' policy of fluff-writing".
I don't think I'd want to scrap any, but I'd either combine a lot of SM factions together (Deathwatch/Grey Knights into an "elite" Marines slot, and reduce BA/DA/SW into the main marine codex - tying most of their unique stuff to <Keywords>.
If I had to fully scrap a codex, I'd be scrapping Inquisition. Too small, can't really form an army in it's own right. Save it for Kill Team, Shadow War and RPGs.
I would scrap the Ynnari, I think they wanted to do what they did in Sigmar and combine all the Eldar under one umbrella. But it was really rushed and honestly... I hate the concept of it.
I would absolutely love it if they gave a sincere effort to consolidate the different imperium forces. They desparately need to condense all the offshoots. They need to go all in and stop making all these individual forces. Beef up the inquisition. You have all the parts but they're not together in any way. It would be a better way to flesh out those lines by having them part of an official group vs random imperium subfactions. Deathwatch, Grey Knights, turn Primaris into Ordo heriticus elite forces. Would go a long way to removing the bloat for imperium. I know it's their money maker, but it's so much at this point it's comical.
I'd love to see xenos get added. Maybe the Hrud or the Slaugth. Exodites would be really cool as would a Rogue trader type of army. Both could get very interesting and varied rosters. Rogue traders could be made up of all kinds of aliens.
At this point, as long as it's no more imperium stuff, it's over saturated so bad at the moment. I used to be only an imperium player, but as they got more and more focus I lost interest.
AnomanderRake wrote: I support squatting Cawl. Also squat Guilliman and Magnus. if you can't make an army that works without giving them a giant special character that has to be in every list to make them competitive don't bother.
Seconded.
That aside, if I had to scrap one army it would probably be either Imperial Knights (because we're not playing Mechwarrior) or Tau (their aesthetic is really jarring, compared to the rest of 40k).
However, as others have said, I think it would be far more productive to focus on rolling subfactions into the same book - if only to avoid another year where the only releases are marines wearing different coloured shirts.
Also, given that marines already have a bazillion well-supported factions, could we maybe give a crumb to the xenos before bringing out yet more marine models and subfactions?
In terms of adding a faction to 40k, how about Vampire Counts? Virtually every other Warhammer Fantasy faction has at least a rough equivalent in 40k, why should the blood suckers be any different?
More seriously, I'd like to see Corsairs un-squatted.
I always figured Necrons were just Undead in general, and that they'd get a "soul sucker" at some point, or something.
Would be kinda cool to see some various minor factions emerge - which the Tau kinda are already. Something without a super expansive line, but with a fair spread of options within.
AnomanderRake wrote: I support squatting Cawl. Also squat Guilliman and Magnus. if you can't make an army that works without giving them a giant special character that has to be in every list to make them competitive don't bother.
Seconded.
That aside, if I had to scrap one army it would probably be either Imperial Knights (because we're not playing Mechwarrior)
... I dunno, the davion guard colour scheme would actually look pretty awesome on a space marine
pm713 wrote: Secret things sounds like "We can't think of anything to back up reversing our lore but you should go along with it".
From established lore we know they spend their downtime engaging in training exercises ("blood games") to probe holes in their own defenses, we know that the Emperor deployed them to act as his proxies in some cases (the detachment keeping an eye on Lorgar in First Heretic), they engaged in/supported covert ops of one sort or another in connection with the Assassinorium (Valdor collecting and briefing the strike force from Nemesis off-planet), and they had a combat-ready response force to deploy to beat up Magnus when Guilliman arrived on Luna. We also know that the Imperial dungeons are full of strange and mysterious machinery that one foe or another might have had an interest in getting ahold of, so it's entirely conceivable that Eldar, Chaos, Necrons, the Dark Mechanicum, et cetera may have been trying to sneak agents down there over the last ten thousand years and the Custodes have actually been necessary to keep the place secure against incursions that weren't full-scale invasions.
So "secret things" may just be literally referring to "black ops too small-scale and fiddly for us to talk about with our 'models on the tabletop for a 40k game or it didn't happen' policy of fluff-writing".
Of course in 40K the covert ops are performed by giant dudes in shining gold armour.
Pink Horror wrote: ...Of course in 40K the covert ops are performed by giant dudes in shining gold armour.
Usually giant dudes not in armour impersonating abhumans, using light-bending tech to make themselves look smaller or falsehoods to make themselves invisible, or serving as controllers rather than directly involving themselves, to be fair. They don't tend to put on the giant gold armour and then wander around expecting not to be noticed.
Pink Horror wrote: ...Of course in 40K the covert ops are performed by giant dudes in shining gold armour.
Usually giant dudes not in armour impersonating abhumans, using light-bending tech to make themselves look smaller or falsehoods to make themselves invisible, or serving as controllers rather than directly involving themselves, to be fair. They don't tend to put on the giant gold armour and then wander around expecting not to be noticed.
in fact it specificly says custodes who end up in such a role SURRENDER their wargear
I would add; Mercenary Auxiliary Forces / Dogs of War
I think it would be cool if a few sub factions were in this book each with a few units and heroes and a possible allegiances (can work with X but not Y)
So some nice additions might be...
I would remove; Sisters of Silence, Custodes, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and less so Grey-Knights & Deathwatch. Simply because these should all be customisations you add to personalise a space-marine army (or battle sisters army).
But only retrospectively, since the kits are already here. A solid faction bonus list, a spru, and a hero or two, should be all a subfaction needs, rather than their own separate codex and armies.
Alternatively do the same, but Custodes, Grey-Knights, Deathwatch, are put together with some Inquisition and Stormtroopers. With faction rules providing fluffy buffs. Maybe split the difference with faction specific armories.
Inversely I don't really feel the same about chaos, but I think it wouldn't be awful to consolidate the demons into a respective chaos divided codex. The diversity of the CSM better warrants
I would like to see Ecclesiarchy redone, with better models, and their own vehicles. I also think it would be cool to give them fodder units of Pilgrims, it'd give them something that defines them apart from SM and add to the religious vibe. Also gives the Ecclesiarchy an excuse to go outside their temples to "protect pilgrims".
Others get shot or chopped apart simply because it amuses the creature doing it. They will overrun your world and murder every single thing in their path, simply because their culture encourages it and they enjoy it. Orks are fething terrifying from an in-universe perspective. They are the Orkification of Grimdark.
