Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/29 22:48:46


Post by: Valkyrie


I'm part of a very friendly group at a local store, and while it's a great place, I'm not too keen on actually buying from there. I pay my club dues and all necessary fees, but not much in terms of products. One of the members recently bought some rulebooks off eBay, prompting another member to criticise him for not getting them from the store, citing a "lack of community spirit".

Here's the thing, the store sells everything for RRP, whereas most of the other stores I've visited have had some sort of discount. Hell, one of them I visited a few times had a £1 discount on 40K stuff, but even that small reduction attracted customers. I was quite annoyed at this comment, as I'm not particularly wealthy, and if there are cheaper avenues elsewhere surely that should be acceptable.

There's another store I visit whenever I'm in London, I can get a box of Custodes for £26 rather than the £35 the FLGS sells for. I know it's my money to do as I please yet there's this niggling feeling that I should buy from the FLGS. Should I be obliged to pay more to keep this sense of community going?


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/29 22:54:53


Post by: HuskyWarhammer


If you're paying a club due or fee, I would so no, you're not morally obligated to buy there.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/29 22:56:58


Post by: timetowaste85


HuskyWarhammer wrote:
If you're paying a club due or fee, I would so no, you're not morally obligated to buy there.


Exactly this. I believe in “pay where you play”, and you’re doing that already. If the owner chose to go the route of paying for club dues, that should allow your conscience to be clean.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/29 22:58:05


Post by: Cream Tea


If you pay for your game time and terrain use and such, like you seem to do, then no. You shouldn't feel obliged to buy from there.

I buy most of my minis from my LGS, they offer about a 20% discount compared to GW's prices. If they sold at GW's RRP I wouldn't buy nearly as much from them.

Game stores are businesses, and should expect to encounter some competition. They're not your friends (well, of course you can be friends with the owner or w/e) and you don't owe them your loyalty. You may still want to support them, I like to do that because I like having an LGS, but it's your choice.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/29 22:58:08


Post by: Galas


I play in different stores around Galicia, and normally I play 90% of the time in tournaments. I pay a fee to enter those tournaments. Normally I always like to buy something from them when I go to a tournament, but many times they just don't have it on stock, and normally I buy from those stores because they have web-stores, but not always. I buy many things from Ebay and UK. I just keep a balance.
In todays market, if a store don't want to have discounts, or a Web-store, is their fault. Yeah, it sucks if you lose your only store. But thats an opportunity to start a club. Aren't those popular in UK? I believe in USA they play mainly in stores, but in europe most of the players play in clubs with monthly fees, etc...


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/29 23:01:22


Post by: zend


No, especially if they're like my store where they truly only care about MTG and they markup prices just because they think they can get away with it.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/29 23:14:47


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


If you are charged for using the place in the guise of club fees then you've no obligation to buy stuff there

(although if the place folds from lack of sales you only get the right to complain bitterly if you do shop there)


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 00:14:29


Post by: Elbows


A store of any sort is there to earn money. To do so they need to earn your business. "Earn" being the key phrase there. However, I'd say don't take advantage of a store's hospitality if you're never going to buy there.

But are you obligated to purchase from a store? Not at all.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 00:37:21


Post by: JohnHwangDD


If you received non-LGS stuff from discount mail order for X-mas / B-day, is that a problem?

You're already paying club dues. That's enough to cover your playing costs.

That said, you should keep your yap shut about where new models and such come from.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 00:53:34


Post by: Overread


Fees to play are unlikely to cover the stores running costs and, if the venue is rented by the store, might only go toward securing the rent of the spot rather than any actual overheads or profit fro the store side of things.


If a store is promoting and supporting the local club scene then it generally helps to buy from the store because the store and club help keep each other alive. Many a time the closure of the only store in an area can kill off a game because the community loses that focal point (esp once you start having clubs outside of school or universities).

So most local clubs will often try to encourage people to buy from the local because its helping the club stay alive - getting new people into thehobby and being a focal point for the community and such (esp if the store is running the club and hiring out the venue - organising events etc...)


That said there's no shame in buying models where-ever and however you wish (so long as its legal). Some might frown if you never buy local, but that's their issue and it should never be made a problem socially; nor should the club ever demand of you that you only buy from them (even GW stores only enforce that you use their products not that you must buy from the store).

RRP isn't bad, but if you are finding that other stores locally are offering better prices you might consider talking to the store owner. Suggest that they consider giving some similar discounts or that they enact a loyalty scheme or similar concepts.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 04:10:20


Post by: JohnHwangDD


The fact that they charge a club fee at all presumes it to be sufficient.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 05:07:19


Post by: cuda1179


I had my local haunt while I was in college. They taught me to play, helped me find bits, provided and EXCELLENT gaming area for free with a wide variety of terrain. They even went so far as to give a half dozen boxes of models and some blisters whenever there was a tournament. Yes, most of it was overstock or old inventory, but it was FREE.

Because of that kind of service not only did I only buy there (except for exotic items like ForgeWorld), I continued to go there long after I was out of college. For 3 years I drove 90 miles to that store once per week to play, and buy.

Today, there is a store I go to. Yes, I buy stuff there, but there is no emotional attachment. In 12 years I have been to one tourney (paid fee), and no gaming nights. I wouldn't hesitate to buy elsewhere. I'd prefer to support a locally owned store, but I've likely dropped $8000 there with little return value.

Your obligation is only proportional to the amount you use, minus the amount they take.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 05:47:45


Post by: FeindusMaximus


If you play there excluding events that cost money = yes. If you are playing at friends houses = no.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 06:14:29


Post by: JohnHwangDD


The hobby is actually hating GW.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 06:28:20


Post by: xKillGorex


My local game stores sells at full retail, I don’t game there as the be fair they don’t play any games that I want / like to play and hardly buy much in the unless it’s brushes I need.

Would sooner hunt things down online.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 07:20:28


Post by: ScarletRose


My LGS doesn't offer a discount (thought they have a lovely yearly sale), but they offer access to a huge table area that's clean and well lit with tons of terrain and mats available for use.

For that I buy an item every time I'm there to play. Of course I play X-wing so it's usually just dropping $15 for a new release I'd be buying anyway. Even online I'd only save a couple bucks so I figure it's worth it to keep a good store going.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 07:55:53


Post by: stroller


I'd say you're obliged to contribute to the friendly community spirit, to keep it that way.

If you're paying fees to play there, they've already got your money.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 09:13:44


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Eh, just be aware it's a business there to make money.

Club fees and dues are all well and good - but if the business closes?


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 09:55:48


Post by: Slipspace


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eh, just be aware it's a business there to make money.

Club fees and dues are all well and good - but if the business closes?


The flip side of that is the business has no right to your money merely for existing. It seems as though the OP would quite like to support his FLGS more but isn't happy at being charged more than other stores typically charge. They're already paying to use the tables and terrain. I don't think they should feel guilty that the store doesn't offer good enough value for money. Obviously there's a danger people not buying from the store means it could close but, again, businesses don't have an automatic right to continue to exist. There are any number of reasons a FLGS's sales might not be sufficient to keep them running, from high prices to poor location to bad employees. It's not the customer's fault if the person running the business can't make it succeed.

If the store owner is a reasonable person and asks why you're using models/books not bought from them I'd tell them you don't think their prices are good enough. It's then up to them how they use that information.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 09:59:13


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


All about the facilities.

Been around the intartubes for a long old time now, and every so often you'll see the 'GW forced my local store out of business', when it turns out those decrying Big Bad Bully companies buy all their stuff online.

Also, sounds like the business in question is charging RRP, which isn't exactly out of order? And there's an assumption being made here that they have any kind of a choice in the matter. Without seeing their sales volumes and overheads, it's entirely possible they can't afford to discount.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 10:10:56


Post by: Alex Kolodotschko


If you want the store to stay open for a long time then buy from there.
If not then don't.
Club/gaming fees are normally just enough to keep the lights/heat on and maintain the tables/terrain if you're lucky.
Staffing and rents/rates are the big ones.
Do some basic maths or ask the owner and see what that store need to run, you'll soon know that they must sell toys to make ends meet.

Roughly how many people go there to play per day and what do they pay?


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 10:42:50


Post by: Process


Absolutely not, they are a business. They should be obliged to take your money not the other way round.

For anybody using the argument "what about your sense of community?" ask "well what about the shop's?". If a customer has to pay more money for the "community" then why can the shop sell for less for the "community"?

And for any shop that has to close due online competitors... its your own fault for stagnating when you have major advantages over online retailers.

I look at some of the independent shops out there and can not understand how they are wasting so many opportunities to take my money and the money of other nerds like me.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 11:54:55


Post by: Overread


"And for any shop that has to close due online competitors... its your own fault for stagnating when you have major advantages over online retailers."


You're clearly unaware of overheads. Running a highstreet shop incurs way more overheads than an online only business. Your rate, rent, tax and all for a highstreet shop are way above those for running a warehouse out in the sticks or a cheap industrial out-of-town centre. It's why so many small shops have closed up over the last few decades; sure they get footfall, but have a look at your highstreet - gone are many geek or specialist little shops and instead you've got things like designer clothes and mobile phones (items with very high mark up for profit) and foot outlets (constant customers every day esp at peek hours).

It's why many online stores can charge less than RRP because they have fewer/cheaper overheads, plus potential access to a larger number of customers. However online is high competition because now you're competing nationally and even internationally for customers. When you've already got major online stores like Firestorm, Wayland and the like its a lot harder to push into that market for a small store without spending a lot on marketing (That the store likely hasn't got).




Sure you are not required nor demanded to buy at your local store; but for the store to remain functional its got to have customers who buy from them. Club fees will often only cover very marginal costs - like the rent of hte room and perhaps payment for a member of staff on-site as well as things like boards and terrain; the heating; the lighting etc... It won't cover the stores day to day running costs.


It's not that highstreet shops have stagnated, its that the current policies and prices of running a highstreet shop in any half-decent area of town are very harsh in today's world.

Granted hobbyshops don't tend to have to compete with the super buying and pricing wars that supermarkets generate; but at the same time they were always shops that had lower footfall of customers. Sure some of those customers spent a lot when they did come in, but they were never turning over fast sales on a daily basis (unless in very affluent areas). So the current highstreet climate is very hard on them.


It's why Magic the Gathering is the lifeblood of many hobbyshops for geeks today - because the whole structure of MTG generates sales on its own. A product that re-releases itself three or four times a year; cycles its viability so that each annual period you're required to buy into a whole new suit of cards; and that's without accessories and all the stuff that goes with it. Plus a card pack is cheap so you can feed casual buying more easily.
Even if everyone at the club bought their decks online there's still formats like booster draft that help to generate continual sales.

As much as wargamers might complain, wargames are a poor product for a highstreet shop - lower volume of sale; much higher stocking volume and stocking cost.




So yes to repeat you are not required to support your local store; but if your store provides a club, and it sells at least at rrp or lower and if they are a friendly positive atmosphere that draws more new people into the game - then it is a local resource and it benefits you that the store remains open; thus it makes sense to, where possible, pay and support your store.

As said consider suggesting that they have sale periods or a loyalty system or other such mechanism in order to try and further promote direct local sales. Heck club membership could come with a discount if they wanted. Join the club; get cheaper minis; and be encouraged to game and join into activities.
I've even seen stores run event evenings like painting or assembly classes with a modest fee charged per-person.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 12:38:20


Post by: AndrewGPaul


If it were me, and I did all my gaming at this venue, then I'd buy there. It's simply logical, selfish reasoning; if you buy your stuff at this venue, then it is more likely to remain open, and thus you'll have somewhere to play games. If you don't and it closes, then what? You've saved 20% on all your miniatures, but they're useless now.

Personally, I prefer to keep my games shops and gaming clubs separate for just that reason.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 12:43:34


Post by: tneva82


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If it were me, and I did all my gaming at this venue, then I'd buy there. It's simply logical, selfish reasoning; if you buy your stuff at this venue, then it is more likely to remain open, and thus you'll have somewhere to play games. If you don't and it closes, then what? You've saved 20% on all your miniatures, but they're useless now.

Personally, I prefer to keep my games shops and gaming clubs separate for just that reason.


Something stores could consider is charge for gaming room but give free passes if you buy enough from store. This way those who buy from store play for free, those who don't pay.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 12:57:13


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The hobby is actually hating GW.


I'd have to disagree, sure there are haters, but usually its more ongoing disappointment at the gulf between what GW is and what it could be

anyhoo, back on topic, if you are paying to use the space then no purchases required, if those costs don't cover overheads that's the stores problem not yours, its always a shame if a store folds but with a bit of effort its possible to keep local gaming alive without a store, my corner of the Shire hasn't had a FLGS for nigh on a decade but we have 3 clubs of varying flavours that pull in respectable numbers all within 30 mins or so


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 13:21:29


Post by: synthaside


Basically, just a loyalty card that allows you to play 1 game for free for every so much you spend...


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 13:41:27


Post by: dosiere


If you find yourself not buying from a store you play at, it’s worth talking to the management about why. Obviously they want you to do so, and should be interested in hearing about why their customers do or do not purchase from them.

I buy most, but not all, of my stuff from my LGS. It’s not from some a position of obligation that I do so however. It’s becuase they stock what I want, offer a great place to play, have food and drinks, and offer a 10% discount with a loyalty program. I can get slightly cheaper prices online, but I realize that is only part of the value I derive from my local store. It’s absolutely worth the 5-10% price difference to enjoy my hobby in this place.

As someone who runs a small business myself, I put the ball squarly in the retailers court to sell to their customers. I also am very sensitive to feedback from customers, for good reason. The sticker prices are only part of running a store and it’s ultimately on them to figure that out.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 14:09:01


Post by: Process


 Overread wrote:
"And for any shop that has to close due online competitors... its your own fault for stagnating when you have major advantages over online retailers."


You're clearly unaware of overheads. Running a highstreet shop incurs way more overheads than an online only business. Your rate, rent, tax and all for a highstreet shop are way above those for running a warehouse out in the sticks or a cheap industrial out-of-town centre. It's why so many small shops have closed up over the last few decades; sure they get footfall, but have a look at your highstreet - gone are many geek or specialist little shops and instead you've got things like designer clothes and mobile phones (items with very high mark up for profit) and foot outlets (constant customers every day esp at peek hours).

It's why many online stores can charge less than RRP because they have fewer/cheaper overheads, plus potential access to a larger number of customers. However online is high competition because now you're competing nationally and even internationally for customers. When you've already got major online stores like Firestorm, Wayland and the like its a lot harder to push into that market for a small store without spending a lot on marketing (That the store likely hasn't got).




Sure you are not required nor demanded to buy at your local store; but for the store to remain functional its got to have customers who buy from them. Club fees will often only cover very marginal costs - like the rent of hte room and perhaps payment for a member of staff on-site as well as things like boards and terrain; the heating; the lighting etc... It won't cover the stores day to day running costs.


It's not that highstreet shops have stagnated, its that the current policies and prices of running a highstreet shop in any half-decent area of town are very harsh in today's world.

Granted hobbyshops don't tend to have to compete with the super buying and pricing wars that supermarkets generate; but at the same time they were always shops that had lower footfall of customers. Sure some of those customers spent a lot when they did come in, but they were never turning over fast sales on a daily basis (unless in very affluent areas). So the current highstreet climate is very hard on them.


It's why Magic the Gathering is the lifeblood of many hobbyshops for geeks today - because the whole structure of MTG generates sales on its own. A product that re-releases itself three or four times a year; cycles its viability so that each annual period you're required to buy into a whole new suit of cards; and that's without accessories and all the stuff that goes with it. Plus a card pack is cheap so you can feed casual buying more easily.
Even if everyone at the club bought their decks online there's still formats like booster draft that help to generate continual sales.

As much as wargamers might complain, wargames are a poor product for a highstreet shop - lower volume of sale; much higher stocking volume and stocking cost.




So yes to repeat you are not required to support your local store; but if your store provides a club, and it sells at least at rrp or lower and if they are a friendly positive atmosphere that draws more new people into the game - then it is a local resource and it benefits you that the store remains open; thus it makes sense to, where possible, pay and support your store.

As said consider suggesting that they have sale periods or a loyalty system or other such mechanism in order to try and further promote direct local sales. Heck club membership could come with a discount if they wanted. Join the club; get cheaper minis; and be encouraged to game and join into activities.
I've even seen stores run event evenings like painting or assembly classes with a modest fee charged per-person.


What you've just explained is why a highstreet shop cant compete with an online shop selling model stock.....

Im well aware of the costs. I stand by my statement.

Its not a customers responsibility to account for a shop's lack of diversification and innovation.

You just mentioned like 4 things a FLGS can do to increase profitability, intelligent marketing doesn't cost a lot of money and sore location isn't the major factor it used to be.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 14:18:27


Post by: Stevefamine


I do not pay club dues - but yes you should spend money there.

If you don't want to break the budget to impulse buy 2k points of Eldar - you can still spend $100~ on the codex/supplies/maybe a few characters at your store. At least paints/glues/a box a month at minimum


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 14:43:45


Post by: Odrankt


If your paying fees for the shops membership then you have no obligation to buy from there as your already supporting them with Weekly/Monthly/Yearly payments.

If the services they provide are free e.g. Escalation leagues or monthly 1 day tournaments then you should do your best to support them. Buying a paint pot or 2 wont hurt your wallet but it will help your LGS.

my FLGS is running a free year long Escalation League that will turn into a 5 game tournament this time next year. I try supporting them by spending €15/20 on paints, board games and Card games whenever I go to the shop. Unfortunately, the shop is new so they cant discount any GW products atm but I get my Models and stuff from Darksphere mostly.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 15:54:58


Post by: Resipsa131


I buy mine from the FLGS and If they don't have it I have the owner put it on the next shipment and pay him up front for doing it. I like having a FLGS in my small town so I don't have to drive an hour to play a casual game.

But I don't feel obligated to do it.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 16:52:12


Post by: Stormonu


Club fees or not, there is no obligation to buy from a FLGS. Its your money, any store that wants your money needs to earn it. Loyalty to store, which may very well be gone in 5 years, is misplaced in my opinion.

If you feel unhappy about buying elsewhere, discuss with the shop your concerns.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/30 23:59:00


Post by: TangoTwoBravo


Resipsa131 wrote:
I buy mine from the FLGS and If they don't have it I have the owner put it on the next shipment and pay him up front for doing it. I like having a FLGS in my small town so I don't have to drive an hour to play a casual game.

But I don't feel obligated to do it.


This.

I feel loyalty to my FLGS and will shop there. That loyalty is not, however, an obligation. I also can't imagine my FLGS owner trying to place such an obligation on me. Instead, he generates loyalty by supporting the community.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 14:14:19


Post by: Wayniac


Obliged? Absolutely not. I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Many game stores offer gak, when you think about it. The only real commodity they usually offer is table space, and if you're lucky a good selection of terrain. But is that enough? Maybe to patronize frequently, but not to buy there all the time. It depends on their stock. If they keep a healthy stock and offer a discount, then along with the tablespace it provides a bigger incentive to shop there.

But I have had game stores that had barely any stock, offered a discount so low that after factoring in sales tax it came out to saving a few pennies, and could take upwards of a month or more to order anything from their distributor. In comparison you can order online, get a good discount, often have free shipping, and be guaranteed the order in a week or so. A no brainer.

If I have a good shop that gives a discount I will often shop there, but otherwise it's only for impulse buys; any sort of bulk order I'll do online instead for the savings.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 14:43:26


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Do what i do, buy paint, glue and brushes from your local store and get your actual models from webshops that can afford to sell with discount.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 14:47:50


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


If the FLGS is charging considerably more for the models, and to use their tables... well, I'm not sure that 'F' is accurate (unless this is a normal thing in your area).

I'd be nice and order third-party stuff from them if it's cheaper. If not, I'd just buy my stuff online and buy what is reasonable from them. If they ever ask you why, tell them.



Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 14:54:28


Post by: ritualnet


I don't think this should be an issue at all. If people make you feel bad about buying elsewhere, it's worth pointing out that most people have at least one figure in their armies that they didn't buy at that store. Or paint. Or brushes to paint the figures. Or basing materials...

Saying that I feel guilty if I go into GW, and walk out without buying, as the people who run it are very nice. I end up buying a single figure or some paints, or the WD magazine when I go in there. They've never made me feel bad about buying elsewhere, and are understanding if I want to save £20+ on a box set, by buying it online.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 15:09:50


Post by: ironicsilence


I tend to split my purchases between the FLGS and online. I like to support my gaming store but also I like saving money so I try to do a good mix of both.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 16:26:39


Post by: djones520


I feel that if you play there, yes, you should feel obliged to spend money there. Not all of it, but it's kind of a dick move to use his resources for your own fun, and not give back.

I play exclusively at one store in our town. I certainly don't buy all my warhammer stuff there, but when I'm make a big move on my army, I ensure he gets a percentage of it.

If you don't, then no, there is no obligation.



Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 17:03:10


Post by: ChargerIIC


If you feel like the store isn't being fair with its pricing why are you playing there? If you are ok enough for it to play there you should spend at least some money there.

Otherwise you are kind of hoping that someone else is making the game profitable enough for the FLGS to support. If that person(s) stops buying or switches games then you could find yourself with a bunch of product and no place to play.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 19:16:56


Post by: Racerguy180


thankfully my FLGS doesn't charge for tables, they have an excellent selection of terrain, are open late 2200hrs and generally have most hobby supplies in stock. if they charged for the use of their tables, I probably wouldn't play as much as I do. even tho I probably spend approx what they would charge for table time.

They do charge full price for models, which I am perfectly happy to pay since the aforementioned perks are wonderful. I don't like buying stuff online unless I have to. my wife & I run a small business(not game related) and don't mind supporting another local business. if I have to buy GW stuff online, I just have it shipped to the GW store 30min away.

in regards to the op, if you are looking at the $€£¥ exclusively and already pay for the use of their space don't feel obligated. now if you are looking at value then for sure buy as much stuff from them as possible.

but as already been said, don't feel beholden to any particular store and give your hard earned $€£¥ to whom you think is most deserving.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 19:58:15


Post by: Necros


I think if you are paying club dues that go to the store, then you are buying from them.. you're buying space and time and stuff like that.

If you are at a store that offers free open gaming whenever you want, then you should try to support them. Models are expensive and it's ok to get stuff off ebay, but you could at least pick up your paints there or buy other items.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 20:06:55


Post by: bigern314


The store we play Bolt Action at lets us use their tables and terrain for free so I buy stuff there, not everything but I try to buy something every week.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/01/31 21:30:31


Post by: Polonius


This is one of those classic moral quandaries.

Gaming stores are business, and if you don't like their prices, you are obviously under no obligation to pay them. (this is the free market approach)


However, gaming stores are also the central gathering point for hobby communities. If nobody buys enough to keep the store in business, it will fail, and hurt the whole community. (this is the utilitarian/tragedy fo the commons approach)

Nobody can answer this question for anybody else. Really, you need to think about your relationship with your local, and determine if you gain a benefit worth paying a little more for your models for.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/01 11:22:26


Post by: Slipspace


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If you feel like the store isn't being fair with its pricing why are you playing there? If you are ok enough for it to play there you should spend at least some money there.


Because playing facilities and cost of models are two different things? Besides, they're already paying for the playing side of things, making the cost of the models a different issue altogether.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/01 15:36:36


Post by: ChargerIIC


Slipspace wrote:
 ChargerIIC wrote:
If you feel like the store isn't being fair with its pricing why are you playing there? If you are ok enough for it to play there you should spend at least some money there.


Because playing facilities and cost of models are two different things? Besides, they're already paying for the playing side of things, making the cost of the models a different issue altogether.


It seems weird since your playing, is in itself, advertising for the store. You are supporting the store, but don't want its business practices to spread.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/02 23:56:23


Post by: solkan


If you don't buy at the store, please don't be stupid enough to be surprised when the store makes a rational business decision to no longer exist.

A FLGS is a terrible business choice, and it's an even worse business choice if the store has a large selection of tables. If you enjoy going to this place that is making the terrible business choice of continuing to exist, you get the store to continue to exist by giving them money.

Do you have to do this? Of course not. But actions have consequences.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 00:09:58


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


The truth is, at the end of the day it's YOUR money. You choose what you want to do with it.

If the FLGS is over-charging you, then you might be well within your rights to purchase somewhere else. I've seen this first-hand, and the shop eventually became nothing more than a card store after a while.

If you need a place to game, then do the basic math.

Figure out how much you're spending at the shop vs. buying from GW. Ball park it, at least.

Take a look at the difference.

If you can afford to make your own table, then it might be wise. If you can afford to get together with some friends and rent tables at a recreation center, do that.

Because while others will tell you 'Support your local FLGS!' and act like you're an awful person for not throwing away your money... I'll be the one that will tell you that there's plenty of businesses that will price-gouge you and don't give two turds about your gaming community.

Don't be a fool with your money. Better to be able to eat and buy more things than to support a business that doesn't care about you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone who tells you to support your local business is doing one of two things:

-running that business
-repeating what people who run that business say

Your gaming community won't 'go away' because some price-gouging shop went out of business. I grew up for years in an area with NO FLGS within 70 miles. We still had a gaming community, we just saved for the trip and mail-ordered from magazines.

If the business is foolish enough that they can charge you WAY more than the normal value of an item, because you don't have another choice? Well, don't worry. It won't be long before a new choice comes along and puts the old choice out of business or forces him to adjust so he can compete.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 00:25:24


Post by: JoshInJapan


I wish I had this problem-- there is no FLGS where I live. If there were, I would buy from them pretty much exclusively, because I would want them to stay in business.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 00:31:17


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 JoshInJapan wrote:
I wish I had this problem-- there is no FLGS where I live. If there were, I would buy from them pretty much exclusively, because I would want them to stay in business.


Okinawa. Gate 2 street.

Guy has a shelf in the back and a table you can use.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 00:39:33


Post by: JoshInJapan


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 JoshInJapan wrote:
I wish I had this problem-- there is no FLGS where I live. If there were, I would buy from them pretty much exclusively, because I would want them to stay in business.


Okinawa. Gate 2 street.

Guy has a shelf in the back and a table you can use.


That's about as far from me as you can get and still be in Japan. I'm in Iwate.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 00:44:14


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 JoshInJapan wrote:
That's about as far from me as you can get and still be in Japan. I'm in Iwate.


Then I recommend taking a trip to the beaches in Okinawa when it gets closer to spring. The ocean will do you well.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 00:52:37


Post by: JoshInJapan


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 JoshInJapan wrote:
That's about as far from me as you can get and still be in Japan. I'm in Iwate.


Then I recommend taking a trip to the beaches in Okinawa when it gets closer to spring. The ocean will do you well.


I've been there twice, and plan to go again, probably this summer. My work and family are up here, so this is where I'll stay. No beaches (or game stores), but the skiing is great.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 00:57:13


Post by: ScarletRose


The truth is, at the end of the day it's YOUR money. You choose what you want to do with it.

If the FLGS is over-charging you, then you might be well within your rights to purchase somewhere else. I've seen this first-hand, and the shop eventually became nothing more than a card store after a while.

If you need a place to game, then do the basic math.

Figure out how much you're spending at the shop vs. buying from GW. Ball park it, at least.

Take a look at the difference.

If you can afford to make your own table, then it might be wise. If you can afford to get together with some friends and rent tables at a recreation center, do that.


This really seems like jousting at windmills here, I mean is LGS price gouging a common occurrence? I can't say I've ever encountered it.

Generally the big-bad businesses exploiting gamers are the manufacturers, not the point of sale.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 01:00:41


Post by: JohnHwangDD


MSRP isn't gouging, but it is a sign of a store that doesn't want sales volume or turnover.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/03 01:24:01


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 ScarletRose wrote:
This really seems like jousting at windmills here, I mean is LGS price gouging a common occurrence? I can't say I've ever encountered it.

Generally the big-bad businesses exploiting gamers are the manufacturers, not the point of sale.


I'm a very pro free-market kind of guy. But rest assured, I've seen quite a few specialty shops that realize when there's no nearby competition... they will gladly raise the prices as long as people are coming in and paying them. Fortunately, online shopping has put a stop to the worst of this. However, the price of convenience and the abundance of impulse-shoppers keeps some of it still alive.

I mean, FFS I grew up in a town with ONE grocery store. It was half an hour to the other. You can bet your butt there was a price difference between the milk in that store and the stuff thirty minutes away- and the other town had several small grocers, they were just priced better because they had competition.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/10 19:17:41


Post by: BuFFo


"Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS?"

No.

You buy what you want from where you want it.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/12 09:16:39


Post by: ced1106


A smart FLGS will provide goods and services that are not available elsewhere: snacks and drinks; game events, such as Magic the Gathering; and the discount clearance section. Or carry small items whose price justifies the convenience: dice, paints, and, again, snacks and drinks.

Our FLGS even has quarterly boardgame flea markets, which you'd think are competition, but still result in sales, including moving their own clearance stock. (The store even has its own online store, with store pickup.)


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/12 13:04:58


Post by: kronk


 Polonius wrote:
This is one of those classic moral quandaries.

Gaming stores are business, and if you don't like their prices, you are obviously under no obligation to pay them. (this is the free market approach)


However, gaming stores are also the central gathering point for hobby communities. If nobody buys enough to keep the store in business, it will fail, and hurt the whole community. (this is the utilitarian/tragedy fo the commons approach)

Nobody can answer this question for anybody else. Really, you need to think about your relationship with your local, and determine if you gain a benefit worth paying a little more for your models for.


I agree with this.

At the end of the day, it's your choice where you spend your money.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/12 18:18:31


Post by: supreme overlord


I support my FLGS even though I do not play there and can get cheaper prices online because I like that there's a spot locally for 40k and if I ever did want to play a pick-up game I'd have a place to dot it. Supporting local business' you like is also supporting the community they nurture.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/12 21:10:28


Post by: Grot 6


 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm part of a very friendly group at a local store, and while it's a great place, I'm not too keen on actually buying from there. I pay my club dues and all necessary fees, but not much in terms of products. One of the members recently bought some rulebooks off eBay, prompting another member to criticise him for not getting them from the store, citing a "lack of community spirit".

Here's the thing, the store sells everything for RRP, whereas most of the other stores I've visited have had some sort of discount. Hell, one of them I visited a few times had a £1 discount on 40K stuff, but even that small reduction attracted customers. I was quite annoyed at this comment, as I'm not particularly wealthy, and if there are cheaper avenues elsewhere surely that should be acceptable.

There's another store I visit whenever I'm in London, I can get a box of Custodes for £26 rather than the £35 the FLGS sells for. I know it's my money to do as I please yet there's this niggling feeling that I should buy from the FLGS. Should I be obliged to pay more to keep this sense of community going?


You should support your local stores by buying what you want, or some snacks, or whatever. To the one you said was spouting off about making a scene about what the other cat bought, that guy needs to shut up. It's none of that persons business where someone buys their stuff from. In the very near future, your store manager, or workers may address this issue with you or your group, and you will be able to give them your opinion... Until then, you have to stretch out your game dollar, especially as the ridiculous prices from the distributor continue to rise.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/12 21:47:23


Post by: mrgrigson


Do you feel the store has value in its existence, and you want to see it stay open? Then yes, you should absolutely shop there as you can.

I had one where I've been laughed at for asking for products from companies they otherwise stocked. I had one store that went out of their way to order one of any bizarre minis rulebook that came out because they knew I was a sucker for that kind of thing. We just went 5 years with a game store that focused on boardgames and had the barest oddball assortment of minis, but was happy to order anything I wanted. They also did an excellent job of being a community center and were the friendliest, least condescending game store I'd been to in ages. Over the years I bought a crapton of $10 card games that looked goofy and entertaining because I wanted to do my part to help them stay open.

For the past 5 months or so, we've had two game stores in the area who mostly stock lots of minis. A bunch of the same stuff (PP, GW, Attack Wing and the FFG Star Wars stuff), and they frequently snipe at each other. Doesn't make me want to shop at either one.

If you couldn't give a gak if they close, don't spend your money there. But don't bother playing there either.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/12 23:38:51


Post by: Commodus Leitdorf


If you want your local store to stay around, always buy from them when possible. Frankly In my time as a gamer (about 20 years) I have seen 7 gaming stores go bust in my area...that sucks.

I get trying to get a deal, but if you want a place to play or meet new players, you gotta support your local store.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/13 02:36:30


Post by: -Loki-


As others have said, it boils down to whether you want it to stay around. You can come up with all sorts of reasons not to buy at a store - club fees, snacks, regularity of gaming, quality of tables, online discounts, etc. But stores survive on selling product. If they don't sell it, they can't pay their bills, and they close. They're not altruistic millionaires keeping stores open for people to plan games in, they're running a business.

Whatever reason you decide to not buy at the store, just keep in mind that not supporting it may help it close its doors. If you like playing there, pay there. If you don't care if it closes and your group can survive elsewhere, such as garage gaming, then don't buy from them and hunt for discounts, but at that point I'd also just not play there and go and do garage gaming anyway.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/13 21:51:08


Post by: Marmatag


Local game shops have a symbiotic relationship with their patrons. I do business with my LGS but they also don't charge for tables. Smart owners understand that fair pricing and a thriving community is better than the extra few dollars they make with raised prices and charging for tables.

If you're going to charge for table use, have that go into store credit. This way you still get the money, and they still get to play, while also slowly saving up for purchases on a regular basis.

Just flat charging $ to use the store to play without providing something back seems kind of mistaken imho.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/14 16:09:37


Post by: stroller


Flat charging $ to use the store to play DOES provide: space, tables, play surfaces, scenery.....


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/14 16:31:36


Post by: gungo


If store received the club dues then you dont need to buy most of your stuff there But a lot of time club dues are not for the store.
You should buy from the store regardless and if you choose not to buy from the store then go play at another location. Odds are you play at the store because it’s convienant, has a thriving gaming community for your chosen game, and has enough terrain and space to suit your leisure activity. If you don’t want to purchase then the store owner has every right to kick you out for loitering. Since you are NOT a customer. And you have absolutely no right to complain about the store closing down or how there is a lack of game clubs in your area.
I personally purchase some stuff from my local and some stuff online depending on what’s convienant for me but it’s about half and half. I’ve stopped trying to find the perfect online retailer since Gw made it so online retailers must sell for no more then a set discount %. Usually the shipping and tax make the savings minimal. My local shop doesn’t have a discount anymore either.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/14 16:35:04


Post by: Ouze


 Polonius wrote:
This is one of those classic moral quandaries.

Gaming stores are business, and if you don't like their prices, you are obviously under no obligation to pay them. (this is the free market approach)

However, gaming stores are also the central gathering point for hobby communities. If nobody buys enough to keep the store in business, it will fail, and hurt the whole community. (this is the utilitarian/tragedy fo the commons approach)


I agree with this, but with the modifier that if you're paying a club fee to the store, then I think you're already satisfying your obligations to the commons. If the business doesn't charge enough in club fees to keep them in business along with their RRP then ultimately I'm not sure to what extent the players should be expected to subside the store's lack of business acumen.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/14 22:22:36


Post by: dracpanzer


You are never under any obligation IMO to buy from a LGS. Though when it closes your local gaming community will suffer for it. Lack of events, lack of playing space and lack of new blood a store front helps to bring in will certainly poison the water and quickly chase your gaming community on to in-house game tables.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 00:37:01


Post by: stanman


You're never obligated to buy anywhere, but as others have pointed out if you enjoy playing there and using their table space you should be supporting the store by purchasing there. The problem is that a lot of people feel that "supporting the store" means buying occasional inexpensive items like paint, candy bars or chips which is pretty small fries when it comes to paying for the store to remain open. That's the type of stuff that a 7-11 or corner store might get by on but they have a very high amount of foot traffic and volume of sales that no gaming shop is going to come close to matching, plus those type of stores tend to make their bulk off of alcohol and cigarette sales. None of those stores have an available square foot of dead space where a game store is expected to reserve 1/4-1/2 of their floor space for tables which should be used for housing inventory and generating sales.

I certainly sympathize with people wanting to save money, but making all the big purchases online and essentially giving the shop your left over spare change isn't going to keep their doors open. For stuff I play exclusively at home I have no problems purchasing those items online at a discount but for the games that I play in-store I do the majority of my purchasing at that store as I want to see them remain open and continue supporting events for those games. Yeah it might cost be an extra 15-20% because I'm paying normal retail but considering they provide a place to play and also meet new players I consider it a worthwhile investment. My gaming circle doesn't ever expand when all I do is game at home with my friends and in most cases it shrinks over the years as friends get married or move outside the area or even die off. The game store provides a social meeting spot and a community that online sellers simply can't provide which I think offsets the minor additional expense.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 00:51:38


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


After thinking this over, there's some things to consider.

One place I lived, the FLGS was okay. I bought 40k stuff from them when they had it, and if I was looking for it. Even if it cost a few bucks more. But the owner retired, and his son took over- which everyone thought was great because he was more of a gamer than the owner and knew a lot about the stuff. Well, he barred playing Horus Heresy. Then he barred Forge World. He barred all outside food and drink, which was kinda lame because he had Coca-Cola, Sprite, Twix, and Lay's (and I drink coffee). He wouldn't let anyone host a tournament or event unless there was some sort of pay that went to him. He didn't allow people to bring in their own terrain, and would never paint his own or let anyone else paint it (and that's the terrain that wasn't cheap foam and cardboard).

He was the only show in town, and he claimed to be all about the community and told everyone he needed support if they wanted a place to game...

...well, people just started playing in other places.

Sometimes, it's best to not reward a bad place.



Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 01:15:01


Post by: stanman


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
After thinking this over, there's some things to consider.

One place I lived, the FLGS was okay. I bought 40k stuff from them when they had it, and if I was looking for it. Even if it cost a few bucks more. But the owner retired, and his son took over- which everyone thought was great because he was more of a gamer than the owner and knew a lot about the stuff. Well, he barred playing Horus Heresy. Then he barred Forge World. He barred all outside food and drink, which was kinda lame because he had Coca-Cola, Sprite, Twix, and Lay's (and I drink coffee). He wouldn't let anyone host a tournament or event unless there was some sort of pay that went to him. He didn't allow people to bring in their own terrain, and would never paint his own or let anyone else paint it (and that's the terrain that wasn't cheap foam and cardboard).

He was the only show in town, and he claimed to be all about the community and told everyone he needed support if they wanted a place to game...

...well, people just started playing in other places.

Sometimes, it's best to not reward a bad place.



I agree that a gakky store that doesn't help a community shouldn't be supported, but there are a couple irony points. People want to do purchasing elsewhere but will "support the store" by buying candy and drinks at the store, yet will further undermine the stores ability to make money by wanting to bring in outside food and drinks. One could make the case that people want to buy all of their stuff elsewhere and just use the store for free gaming and expect it to magically stay open. Outside food and drink also require clean up and disposal for something that the store makes no profit on and just makes the store a mess for everybody else.

People want nice tables and cool terrain but don't want to pay for using those tables, it costs money to make the tables and gamers (especially the younger ones) tend to be very destructive with store provided stuff. If nobody buys their models in-store, what's the incentive for the store to provide terrain and tables?


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 05:49:45


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 djones520 wrote:

I play exclusively at one store in our town. I certainly don't buy all my warhammer stuff there, but when I'm make a big move on my army, I ensure he gets a percentage of it.



If it's the shop I'm thinking it is, I was still living there when he opened up, and was actually giving strong consideration to jumping back into the hobby then (as opposed to after I'd moved to where I'm at now). . . Sure, I sorta "liked" some of the 40k crowd at Rick's, but it was plainly obvious that we weren't even 2nd class citizens at that shop.


On topic, if the FLGS operator is a hobbyist themselves, there is most definitely one thing they can offer that online retailers can't: help. I don't mean pointing you toward a box or decision making process. I mean, you dropped a thing from that new box, and a bit broke. Or, you're having some issues with the fit you're getting on dry-fitting. An actual, physically present person at the FLGS can help you solve those problems.

Like others, I'm absolutely not suggesting you spend every dime of your hobby money at this one spot. . . I would suggest you spend in proportion to your use of their space tho.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 06:13:44


Post by: malfred


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 djones520 wrote:

I play exclusively at one store in our town. I certainly don't buy all my warhammer stuff there, but when I'm make a big move on my army, I ensure he gets a percentage of it.



If it's the shop I'm thinking it is, I was still living there when he opened up, and was actually giving strong consideration to jumping back into the hobby then (as opposed to after I'd moved to where I'm at now). . . Sure, I sorta "liked" some of the 40k crowd at Rick's, but it was plainly obvious that we weren't even 2nd class citizens at that shop.


On topic, if the FLGS operator is a hobbyist themselves, there is most definitely one thing they can offer that online retailers can't: help. I don't mean pointing you toward a box or decision making process. I mean, you dropped a thing from that new box, and a bit broke. Or, you're having some issues with the fit you're getting on dry-fitting. An actual, physically present person at the FLGS can help you solve those problems.

Like others, I'm absolutely not suggesting you spend every dime of your hobby money at this one spot. . . I would suggest you spend in proportion to your use of their space tho.


If you only play on club nights, do club fees cover all though? I wouldn't know. I've
never been a part of a club.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 06:38:05


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 malfred wrote:

If you only play on club nights, do club fees cover all though? I wouldn't know. I've
never been a part of a club.


In the case of Rick's that I mentioned, it wasn't a "club" per se. . . it was merely that Friday evening was the only night he stayed open due to the MTG crowd. I also have never been part of a gaming club (I guess it isn't all that common in the US??)

At the time I was gaming there, I will readily admit that the 40k guys weren't bringing in much/any money, especially not anywhere near what MTG was. But as I said, we weren't even 2nd class there. We had asked repeatedly if he could unlock a door, even for a few minutes so that we could load/unload our stuff from the store at the end of the night, and they wouldn't. On numerous occasions, seeing kits I didn't want/need, I asked the guys working if I could order through them, and they wouldn't, even when a few of us were asking about a group order when 6th ed 40k dropped. As a business (his sign said he was a sports card shop), he was utterly failing, I honestly believe that the ONLY thing keeping his lights on, was friday night magic, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was out of business now that a proper gaming shop has opened up in that town.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 06:56:47


Post by: Dr. Mills


I buy my stuff from my FLGS as in the long run it's cheaper for the smaller purchases I do rather than one off big purchases. If I wanted to save money, I'd purchase it online cheaper, but unless I'm spending £60+ a time, I'd be paying a minimum of £4 for a 2-4 day delivery.

FLGS gives a flat 10% on everything, even web only things (which is handy as I collect Armageddon Steel Legion!) has accounts with Kromlech, TT Combat, North Star Games and Army Painter which helps as their delivery costs can be bad. I pay £2.50 for my usual 4-5 hour weekly gaming session there, but they have loads of terrain, tables, mats and free rule books to use that it's worth it.

If they offer a lot and you enjoy going there, help keep it that way and buy from there. Just my 2 pence.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 13:58:25


Post by: kronk


My local FLGS is closing in April. I've never played 40k there, but I did play at a handful of open board game nights before I got tired of the crowd there. They easily had 100+ games that were open for people to play whenever. In the Spring-Fall, one of our walking routes takes us by the store and we usually pop in. I have bought something about 1/2 of the time I went in, sometimes a paint pot, sometimes a box of Space Marines or GW Terrain or PathFinder book. We've easily spent upwards of $2000 at the store in the past 5 years, if I were to put pen to paper.

My wife and I were lamenting their closing, but as we discussed it, we should have seen it coming.

* We stopped playing at the board game nights because there was a group of regulars that would tell us "Sorry, but we pre-arranged that the 5 of us are going to play Cataan tonight." That left us with whomever else showed up. There was store troll that cheated and smelled. There was vampire dude and his "thrall" of 2 goth teenagers that were only interested in playing some Marvel deck-builder. There was one dad of 2 little ones that we got along with, but usually had to leave early to get the kids in bed. Never once did I see any of those people buy something beyond a pack of cards here and there or some candy/chips. Not one purchase over $5 that either of us could recall.

* One Saturday we swung by to get a codex, and we heard the store owner on the phone transferring money out of an IRA to his personal bank account. Not a good sign.

* There are currently 5 copies of Execution Force, 4 copies of Bloodbowl, and 6 Copies of Shadespire in the store. Why? That's 100s of $ tied up, some for 3 years, that has never moved. 6 copies of the same Terraclips box set. They have a shelf of the FFG 40k RPG books. 5 copies of Only War: The Final Judgement supplement, and those were the only ONLY WAR books they had.

*See also 1000s of $ in Warmachine and Hordes that I've NEVER seen anyone in the store play. A 12' or 15' wall of the gak. We've been there on "Warmachine night" several time. No one. it's all currently 35% off and it's ALL still there.

* They NEVER have the GW thing I'm looking for. I'm talking tactical squads for Space Marines, I'm talking ANY one of the Cities of Death terrain buildings, or Promethium pipes. If I want something, I have to get them to order it. Maybe they get it in 2 weeks, if I'm lucky. BUT, they have had the same 4 boxes of Assault Marines for the past 3+ years.

*They HAD a huge MtG crowd that played every Friday, but a store 2 miles away re-opened and, from what I understand, they started playing there. Mainly because he had twice the playing space and had prize support. The guy running it has a day job and opens the store in the evening. He can "afford" to give out prize support, especially as he's about to be the only option for 20 miles.

It sucks that the store we've purchased from is closing. The people were nice, but I don't know that they really knew how to run a store or had a solid business plan. They obviously didn't have a back up plan for when the other MtG shop opened. I imagine things spiraled out of control quickly once that happened.

Sorry if that's off topic, but I think the bigger message is that if the store carries the game(s) you enjoy, support them if/when you can. If their business plan sucks and the never have what you need, take your business elsewhere.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 14:12:25


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was out of business now that a proper gaming shop has opened up in that town.


Not the case. I know what you're talking about and I was there a couple of years ago (took me forever to find the place). He's doing a lot better. He apparently hired on some people who actually play 40k and care about it. The Magic players still are the big spenders, but that's kind of a universal thing no matter where you go. At the place where I part-time on weekends, the Magic sales are through the roof. Makes me wish I'd have stockpiled the stuff I had back in the day...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 stanman wrote:
People want to do purchasing elsewhere but will "support the store" by buying candy and drinks at the store, yet will further undermine the stores ability to make money by wanting to bring in outside food and drinks. One could make the case that people want to buy all of their stuff elsewhere and just use the store for free gaming and expect it to magically stay open. Outside food and drink also require clean up and disposal for something that the store makes no profit on and just makes the store a mess for everybody else.


In the places I game at in my travels now, most all of them have the universal rule "If we don't carry that drink, we won't stop you from bringing it in". Trust me, I have a bigass 'World's Greatest Grandma' metal coffee mug. There's no cleanup.

 stanman wrote:
People want nice tables and cool terrain but don't want to pay for using those tables, it costs money to make the tables and gamers (especially the younger ones) tend to be very destructive with store provided stuff. If nobody buys their models in-store, what's the incentive for the store to provide terrain and tables?


I think the key here is 'meet me in the middle'. If this old shop would have been like, "Guys I need to see that you want to play and I'll take one of the terrain sets off the shelf and put it on the table" he would have gotten some help.

But, at a certain point, the message becomes clear: "Make do with what I have, or don't play". Pretty soon you start totaling up the prices for terrain and you end up saying, "Well, I can get a table for $50.00. I can drink whatever I want. I can back my truck out of my garage. I can say what I want, bring whatever I want, and kick out undesirable people. Hmmm...." This is why the area where I lived, and still go to from time to time has a small game shop where people post gaming club information. The store owner openly states he doesn't have room for 40k, but will bust his butt to try and find you a group to play with. It works out in the end for him, because they usually support him by having their orders shipped to him and buying painting supplies and stuff.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 14:38:06


Post by: Wayniac


As I've said for me, I support stores if they have decent stock, offer a discount (that ends up more than a few pennies; e.g. a 10% discount is a joke because of sales tax) and in general encourages the hobby. If they don't have anything other than some tables, that'sf often not enough for me alone.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/15 18:46:22


Post by: bigern314


Last Tuesday the store I play Bolt Action at stayed open for an hour and a half past normal closing so we could finish our game. I'll reward that buy buying a few book off them. We use a lot of their terrain and mats so I try to spend as much as I can there even if its a few bucks more than ebay.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/16 00:15:33


Post by: Azazelx


TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Resipsa131 wrote:
I buy mine from the FLGS and If they don't have it I have the owner put it on the next shipment and pay him up front for doing it. I like having a FLGS in my small town so I don't have to drive an hour to play a casual game.

But I don't feel obligated to do it.


This.

I feel loyalty to my FLGS and will shop there. That loyalty is not, however, an obligation. I also can't imagine my FLGS owner trying to place such an obligation on me. Instead, he generates loyalty by supporting the community.


If you're paying a fee to play, then you're already doing it. It might be worth a discussion about prices, or it might not.

Here's a story about a local store owner. A few years ago now, a shop selling GW/FoW/RPGs/Magic cards/etc opened up near where I was living. I'd been buying almost all my stuff online for years at that point, and not playing in any store. I got to know the owner a little, and would support him by buying dice, paints, WD, etc - though I didn't play in his storeor buy GW at his 100% of Australian RRP. We we got to know each other a little, he found out that I bought almost all my stuff online (and I buy a LOT) - but here's the thing. Instead of talking to me about discounts (he told me that some accountant had told him they didn't work at all, and were counterproductive to his business), or how we could work together to get me to buy from him (I said if all else was pretty much equal, I'd be happy to get my stuff from him) but instead he felt that I should feel an obligation to buy from him, even if it cost more, because he was a local business.

Even though I had been living in that area for many years longer than his business was there, and didn't play in his store.

His eventual solution was that I would need to order a minimum of $500 worth of stuff from him at a time (ideally, each week) "to make it worth his time". Yes, that's an actual quote. My solution was to pretty much stop going there or buying stuff from him. I later moved, then he moved. I visited his new store and bought some PSC spray cans, and he changed (increased) the stickered prices on the cans as I was buying them "because the wholesale price had since gone up." Not that he's paid the new price for the cans I was buying, obviously... I'm pretty sure this is illegal to do here in Australia, but I didn't bother arguing, I just got the cans and left. (I did need them for the weekend, it was on a Friday night, and this was before I discovered the place that does custom spray cans that's within walking distance)
That was years ago, and the last time I went there or saw him. So all of the stuff in that linked pic above came from... not him.

A couple more things:
If OP is paying a "club fee" in order to be able to play, then he's good.

Years ago, when I regularly played in a store in the City, I bought almost all (like, 95% or more) of my stuff from there. This was before internet shopping took off, but there were a few other stores in town. When my group shifted stores, I bought almost all my stuff from the new venue. I believe in "Pay where you Play", but we weren't charged for table use or a "club fee". With a fee like that in play, then I'd happily have bought from wherever instead of being almost exclusively loyal to the place we gamed at. It's a two-way street. Quid pro quo.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/16 00:35:11


Post by: Tyran


A nice way to support the a FLGS is too organize events with a prize in product. Everyone that wants to participate pays the fee, and the winner gets to buy something from the store for free with the money of the fees.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/16 00:41:33


Post by: Ouze


 kronk wrote:
The people were nice, but I don't know that they really knew how to run a store or had a solid business plan.


It seems that gaming stores and restaurants attract people like these more than other business models.

if anyone is interested in the nitty-gritty, there are some really good articles here. Cut right to 15 if nothing else because that seems to be far and away the most common model.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/16 18:16:31


Post by: Grot 6


Spoiler:
 kronk wrote:
My local FLGS is closing in April. I've never played 40k there, but I did play at a handful of open board game nights before I got tired of the crowd there. They easily had 100+ games that were open for people to play whenever. In the Spring-Fall, one of our walking routes takes us by the store and we usually pop in. I have bought something about 1/2 of the time I went in, sometimes a paint pot, sometimes a box of Space Marines or GW Terrain or PathFinder book. We've easily spent upwards of $2000 at the store in the past 5 years, if I were to put pen to paper.

My wife and I were lamenting their closing, but as we discussed it, we should have seen it coming.

* We stopped playing at the board game nights because there was a group of regulars that would tell us "Sorry, but we pre-arranged that the 5 of us are going to play Cataan tonight." That left us with whomever else showed up. There was store troll that cheated and smelled. There was vampire dude and his "thrall" of 2 goth teenagers that were only interested in playing some Marvel deck-builder. There was one dad of 2 little ones that we got along with, but usually had to leave early to get the kids in bed. Never once did I see any of those people buy something beyond a pack of cards here and there or some candy/chips. Not one purchase over $5 that either of us could recall.

* One Saturday we swung by to get a codex, and we heard the store owner on the phone transferring money out of an IRA to his personal bank account. Not a good sign.

* There are currently 5 copies of Execution Force, 4 copies of Bloodbowl, and 6 Copies of Shadespire in the store. Why? That's 100s of $ tied up, some for 3 years, that has never moved. 6 copies of the same Terraclips box set. They have a shelf of the FFG 40k RPG books. 5 copies of Only War: The Final Judgement supplement, and those were the only ONLY WAR books they had.

*See also 1000s of $ in Warmachine and Hordes that I've NEVER seen anyone in the store play. A 12' or 15' wall of the gak. We've been there on "Warmachine night" several time. No one. it's all currently 35% off and it's ALL still there.

* They NEVER have the GW thing I'm looking for. I'm talking tactical squads for Space Marines, I'm talking ANY one of the Cities of Death terrain buildings, or Promethium pipes. If I want something, I have to get them to order it. Maybe they get it in 2 weeks, if I'm lucky. BUT, they have had the same 4 boxes of Assault Marines for the past 3+ years.

*They HAD a huge MtG crowd that played every Friday, but a store 2 miles away re-opened and, from what I understand, they started playing there. Mainly because he had twice the playing space and had prize support. The guy running it has a day job and opens the store in the evening. He can "afford" to give out prize support, especially as he's about to be the only option for 20 miles.

It sucks that the store we've purchased from is closing. The people were nice, but I don't know that they really knew how to run a store or had a solid business plan. They obviously didn't have a back up plan for when the other MtG shop opened. I imagine things spiraled out of control quickly once that happened.

Sorry if that's off topic, but I think the bigger message is that if the store carries the game(s) you enjoy, support them if/when you can. If their business plan sucks and the never have what you need, take your business elsewhere.


Kronk's post struck a nerve because it is exactly the tone that I am seeing at the local store. Not only is GW's games talking a back seat, they- AND Warmahordes are not being played in the store. Local shop is removing one table and adding more fold up tables and chairs for card games. Kronks experiences are almost dead on with my own in the local game store. A Game store owner who expects money to roll in without a fuss, but then gets mad because the prices of products are out of peoples spending range, as the rules sets OP themselves out of existence. Resulting in games of cards being played, not Tabletop games.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/16 20:41:39


Post by: kronk


 Grot 6 wrote:
Resulting in games of cards being played, not Tabletop games.


To be clear, I accept that MtG and other card games keep the lights on. I get it.

Unfortunately, this store did not have a back up plan when a re-opened rival store took most of their MtG players.

Their GW stock didn't interest me, and they didn't seem to fussed about ordering stuff for me in a reasonable time, so why bother.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/16 21:49:38


Post by: bigern314


the good thing about my local store is they are expanding to a larger location just down the street which will have more wargaming tables and more card/rpg space. I hope it works out for them since they nearly closed in October due to a tax situation.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/02/19 13:40:00


Post by: ShaggyLlama


I would always try whenever possible to purchase from myLGS as long as the price was within 10% of what i could get the item for on the internet. They more than made up for it with ee event prizes and the space to play. If you like them being open , support them whenever reasonable. If the mark up is too high, then your hand is forced to purchase outside. Good luck in your moral dilemma !


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 17:10:58


Post by: thebarnet


You are paying to play so I wouldn't feel too bad for not buying from there. What I would do though is buy like paints glue that kind of stuff from your Local FLGS if you are feeling bad


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 18:32:52


Post by: ian


I dont underatand why people think its ok to use a shop and not buy goods from there , i wouldnt go to a resturant and buy a small drink and expected to use that table for a couple of hours.
Your not going to save that much by shoping online


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 19:00:48


Post by: Turnip Jedi


ian wrote:
I dont underatand why people think its ok to use a shop and not buy goods from there , i wouldnt go to a resturant and buy a small drink and expected to use that table for a couple of hours.
Your not going to save that much by shoping online


I think the debate, in this case, is should you feel obliged to purchase on top of the table fee, I'd come down on the side of not really, obviously the odd purchase along with paint and other small items will keep you in the owners good books but its not imo an obligation


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 19:05:40


Post by: Desubot


Obligated is a strong word.

Though at the same time you should probably try and not be a hobby vampire. those kinds of people are what kill game stores.... that and poor poor poor management.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 19:24:52


Post by: ian


I highly doubt that the owner of the store is making a huge profit,

Its a shop foremost, not a club

I bet most 40k players have way over 15% of there collections that is sitting around doing nothing.

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 19:48:18


Post by: Turnip Jedi


ian wrote:
I highly doubt that the owner of the store is making a huge profit,

Its a shop foremost, not a club

I bet most 40k players have way over 15% of there collections that is sitting around doing nothing.

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible


but why should I support a badly run business for the sake of the vague concept of 'community', I haven't has a FLGS in my corner of the shire for over a decade yet thanks to some dedicated gamers (and me) and the magic of the Internets we've managed to keep a community going by renting out spaces to play


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 19:52:06


Post by: Desubot


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
ian wrote:
I highly doubt that the owner of the store is making a huge profit,

Its a shop foremost, not a club

I bet most 40k players have way over 15% of there collections that is sitting around doing nothing.

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible


but why should I support a badly run business for the sake of the vague concept of 'community', I haven't has a FLGS in my corner of the shire for over a decade yet thanks to some dedicated gamers (and me) and the magic of the Internets we've managed to keep a community going by renting out spaces to play
Because running a brick and mortar isnt the same thing as a web based warehouse in the sticks. keeping a community alive is one thing, you can rent out a space once a week or whatever but that is nothing compared to running an actual shop with bills and overhead.

Edit: VVV oh yeah UK. im talking based on the US side of things.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 19:55:43


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
ian wrote:
I highly doubt that the owner of the store is making a huge profit,

Its a shop foremost, not a club

I bet most 40k players have way over 15% of there collections that is sitting around doing nothing.

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible


but why should I support a badly run business for the sake of the vague concept of 'community', I haven't has a FLGS in my corner of the shire for over a decade yet thanks to some dedicated gamers (and me) and the magic of the Internets we've managed to keep a community going by renting out spaces to play


I think we in the UK are rather lucky in that regard. In the US, it seems like the variety of community halls, church halls, scout halls, etc, that host games clubs up and down the country don't exist. So, it's shops or nothing. At that point, it's not vague - if everyone buys all their minis on the Internet, the shop shuts, and now everyone has loads of minis and nothing to do with them.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 20:01:42


Post by: Turnip Jedi


maybe but its that old sticking point that a fair few stores are too much hobby not enough business


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 20:05:32


Post by: Azreal13


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Spoiler:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
ian wrote:
I highly doubt that the owner of the store is making a huge profit,

Its a shop foremost, not a club

I bet most 40k players have way over 15% of there collections that is sitting around doing nothing.

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible


but why should I support a badly run business for the sake of the vague concept of 'community', I haven't has a FLGS in my corner of the shire for over a decade yet thanks to some dedicated gamers (and me) and the magic of the Internets we've managed to keep a community going by renting out spaces to play


I think we in the UK are rather lucky in that regard. In the US, it seems like the variety of community halls, church halls, scout halls, etc, that host games clubs up and down the country don't exist. So, it's shops or nothing. At that point, it's not vague - if everyone buys all their minis on the Internet, the shop shuts, and now everyone has loads of minis and nothing to do with them.


But as a counter that, the sheer volume of US properties that have garages, basements or just plenty of indoor space, alongside the relatively higher sq ft/£ you get, makes home gaming a much more practical prospect than in the U.K. (As an average, there's obviously going to be exceptions at both ends on both sides of the Atlantic.)


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 20:06:12


Post by: Desubot


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
maybe but its that old sticking point that a fair few stores are too much hobby not enough business


This is true. a lot of stores end up getting opened by hobbits for hobbits and they end up failing because they dont go into it prepared or with the proper mind set to run a business

but then not much a business can do or can even compete with online retailers that have already been established.

the only thing they can offer is superior service and a place to play. in return you are kinda expected to actually spend money there. otherwise if you are just using the space and just buying a pot of paint a week then all you are doing is leaching off of them.



Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 20:18:05


Post by: Turnip Jedi


Yep I'm not sure where the OP's store falls on the hobby/business scale but full RRP plus fees doesn't sound too enticing


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 20:19:34


Post by: beezley1981


You don't have to buy anything beyond your fees technically. That said, if you want the place to stay open and do well, spend a little money on paints, upgrades, a character model every now and then. No reason to spend all your money there, but throw them a little support beyond the bare minimum if you want the place to stay open.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 20:29:52


Post by: Racerguy180


ian wrote:
I highly doubt that the owner of the store is making a huge profit,

Its a shop foremost, not a club

I bet most 40k players have way over 15% of there collections that is sitting around doing nothing.

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible


this is a significant problem. when customers only focus on price rather than value we get the loss of small local businesses. those local businesses foster new players, (most) offer gaming space, and help to maintain a feeling of growing the community.

yes most hobby shops run by hobbyists are not managed very well. so those shops should not survive. but at least here in the USA, those local shops provide jobs, tax revenue and a "friendly" face that you can actually interact with rather than an email.

personally I would rather spend a little more on the product to have a place to play (granted I wouldn't pay a fee to play, that's what my garage is for) and somewhere that like minded people can congregate and enjoy the hobby together. I like dakka and all but in person discussions is soo much better.

you should never feel obliged to purchase from anywhere, but ask yourself is it worth it?


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 21:27:17


Post by: ChargerIIC


ian wrote:
I dont underatand why people think its ok to use a shop and not buy goods from there , i wouldnt go to a resturant and buy a small drink and expected to use that table for a couple of hours.
Your not going to save that much by shoping online


A surprisingly large number of coffee shop customers do this - sometimes not even buying anything. It's part of the whole 'it's moral if you don't stop me' mentality.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 21:40:51


Post by: techsoldaten


Surprised by some of the responses in this thread.

A friend of mine used to own a FLGS. Someone spending $500 or more would usually get a deal on whatever they were buying, up to 25% off. He even did a Forgeworld order every 2 weeks, which meant everyone got free shipping.

I thought most FLGS' operated this way, and it's usually cheaper to buy from them.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 21:48:20


Post by: Desubot


 techsoldaten wrote:
Surprised by some of the responses in this thread.

A friend of mine used to own a FLGS. Someone spending $500 or more would usually get a deal on whatever they were buying, up to 25% off. He even did a Forgeworld order every 2 weeks, which meant everyone got free shipping.

I thought most FLGS' operated this way, and it's usually cheaper to buy from them.



It depends

some times you have to actually start a relationship become and regular and generally be a cool dood and talk.

its not something you should expect from a store, but you can absolutely work things out with people so long as you arent a social potato.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/07 22:12:53


Post by: Azreal13


this is a significant problem. when customers only focus on price rather than value we get the loss of small local businesses.


This.

The flip side being that a business does not have the divine right to anyone's money, for any reason, let alone just by dint of being local, and if it is losing customers based on price it perhaps isn't communicating the value it's adding effectively.

One will always encounter illogical buying decisions too, I've lost customers despite being cheaper because I was working for only the third largest retailer in the country, as opposed to the biggest (brand snobbery in essence.)

Then there's the customer who feels perfectly entitled to buy at the lowest price, then seek out the most convenient source of support should they have any after sales needs. There should be a special place in hell reserved for them. They were such a drain on our time in one store (where we were well known for knowing our stuff, but not everyone was prepared to pay that bit extra on the odd occasion we weren't screwing our margin down to the last penny) that I almost persuaded the Chairman to authorize a poster stating "Advice to our customers is free, to everyone else it will be subject to a consultation fee!" But he was worried some would take it too seriously and, to be fair, the ones it would be aimed at would be too dense to notice/care anyway...


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 10:24:53


Post by: Peregrine


Racerguy180 wrote:
when customers only focus on price rather than value we get the loss of small local businesses.


Alternatively, customers are focused on value, just not the value you want. For some people the lowest price is the most important component of value, and those things you perceive as added value are paying extra for unnecessary add-ons. For example, if you play at home the fact that a store has rented extra floor space for gaming tables and pays extra employees to run events is meaningless. And the loss of that "value" is also meaningless.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 10:31:31


Post by: ian


I complety agree ,

so if your buying cheap models online because thats what you value,

dont expect to have access to extras offered by other stores that cannot just offer the cheapest price because they offer extras .


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 10:50:07


Post by: Turnip Jedi


yep but in this case the store is expecting you to pay a fee for those extra's on top of full RRP, which just doesn't seem like good business, or at least a business plan that wilfully ignores the Internet


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 11:44:52


Post by: Sneggy


Are you obligated to buy from your FLGS? technically no.

On the other hand if the FLGS is looking to stick around they will seek your custom.

I play at both a club and a store.
The club charges £3 a night (or a monthly fee which works out a little cheaper if you go enough) and for that you get tables, good terrain and someone sat behind a counter to sell you drinks, crisps, chocolate etc.

The shop is free to play. Has good terrain and tables available. Recommends booking for weekends etc and sometimes when they have an event on its booked up and thats bad luck. (But thats fair enough, I mean they can't magic up more space)

The club sells nothing except food and drink.
The shop has a wide range and can direct order stuff in for you (order before monday and get it that thursday for GW product.) everything is 10%off. 15% off on orders over £100 and 20% off on orders over £250.

So I'm in a pretty sweet position. If I want to bulk order stuff I can hit the 20% mark and thats about as good as you find online. For my smaller orders I still order from my FLGS for convenience and because if I'm spending less than £100 I'm generally not saving much over the cost of postage anyway.
Also the owners are friendly, supportive and generous with support for events. They frequently sponsor events at the club with vouchers and prizes. As well as donating models to school clubs etc.
Our local community views them as part of the community, they opened up 18months or so ago and have actively sought to improve the community ever since. As a result the community is thriving and they are doing very well.
Its a relationship, both sides put into it and both sides are rewarded.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 11:50:04


Post by: Overread


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
yep but in this case the store is expecting you to pay a fee for those extra's on top of full RRP, which just doesn't seem like good business, or at least a business plan that wilfully ignores the Internet


Well we know that RRP works because GW still run their own website and local stores and still make viable sales. If we assume that the physical store isn't going to compete with the giant stores online; then its only competition is other stores on the highstreet; if there's no other store charging less than RRP in their catchment then there's no pressure to lower prices.

From the store owners point of view if they weren't running the club the chances are that the area would have to have a hobby club, which would likely still charge a similar sort of fee to play (paying for rent/tables/lights/heating/terrain etc...). So in the stores point of view it doesn't matter if the store is charging the rental fee for the club or if the club is run separate and running its own fee. The only difference is that the store is putting on the service for the community to help keep it alive in order ot help protect its own customer base.

One can viably argue that the store could choose to Invest in its community by waving the membership fee; but at the same time its not an abusive policy if they do charge the fee.



Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 13:17:17


Post by: Fenris-77


Value is the operative word here, but I'm not talking about just model cost, although that's part of the equation. You have to ask yourself "what am getting from my FLGS that I wouldn't get elsewhere?" For a lot of gamers it's a long list, depending on the store. A well run FLGS gives you a quality gaming space, a built-in and evolving community of gamers, quality gaming and hobby advice, and free (or very cheap) events on a regular basis. I worked at a fantastic FLGS for years while I was in university, and I can tell you that planning campaigns, tournaments, and painting competitions is a lot of extra work, and work that doesn't produce direct profit in most cases. The advice factor can't be overlooked either, if you, through your FLGS, have access to high-end competitive play advice, and high-end hobby advice, that's a huge resource, and one, again, that doesn't produce direct income for the store. At the time, I was a very successful tournament player, and a golden demon winning painter - you aren't getting that kind of support online through forum comments.

So for a store like the one I described above, I think that most people should find it very appropriate to repay that level of support and resources with regular custom. Maybe not all your custom, but some significant chunk of it. On the other hand, if your FLGS is essentially just a shop with figs and a couple of crummy tables, then the picture changes a lot. It all depends on the store - a quality FLGS is a treasure that deserves support.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 14:16:33


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 Fenris-77 wrote:
Value is the operative word here, but I'm not talking about just model cost, although that's part of the equation. You have to ask yourself "what am getting from my FLGS that I wouldn't get elsewhere?" For a lot of gamers it's a long list, depending on the store. A well run FLGS gives you a quality gaming space, a built-in and evolving community of gamers, quality gaming and hobby advice, and free (or very cheap) events on a regular basis. I worked at a fantastic FLGS for years while I was in university, and I can tell you that planning campaigns, tournaments, and painting competitions is a lot of extra work, and work that doesn't produce direct profit in most cases. The advice factor can't be overlooked either, if you, through your FLGS, have access to high-end competitive play advice, and high-end hobby advice, that's a huge resource, and one, again, that doesn't produce direct income for the store. At the time, I was a very successful tournament player, and a golden demon winning painter - you aren't getting that kind of support online through forum comments.

So for a store like the one I described above, I think that most people should find it very appropriate to repay that level of support and resources with regular custom. Maybe not all your custom, but some significant chunk of it. On the other hand, if your FLGS is essentially just a shop with figs and a couple of crummy tables, then the picture changes a lot. It all depends on the store - a quality FLGS is a treasure that deserves support.


totally agree, if my circumstances were a smidge different I'd totally support my 2 awesome 'not quite' local stores as they both offer excellent venues and reasonable prices but the OP's store doesn't really sound much like the criteria you outlined


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 16:14:28


Post by: Eilif


 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm part of a very friendly group at a local store, and while it's a great place, I'm not too keen on actually buying from there. I pay my club dues and all necessary fees, but not much in terms of products. One of the members recently bought some rulebooks off eBay, prompting another member to criticise him for not getting them from the store, citing a "lack of community spirit".

Here's the thing, the store sells everything for RRP, whereas most of the other stores I've visited have had some sort of discount. Hell, one of them I visited a few times had a £1 discount on 40K stuff, but even that small reduction attracted customers. I was quite annoyed at this comment, as I'm not particularly wealthy, and if there are cheaper avenues elsewhere surely that should be acceptable.

There's another store I visit whenever I'm in London, I can get a box of Custodes for £26 rather than the £35 the FLGS sells for. I know it's my money to do as I please yet there's this niggling feeling that I should buy from the FLGS. Should I be obliged to pay more to keep this sense of community going?


I think there are moral arguments for supporting local businesses and communities. However, like "community spirit" such areguments nebulous and arguable, so instead think of it in a purely transactional manner.
Assuming that club fees are not enough to support a local shop...
...Do you want the businesse to continue to exist?

-If Yes, buy there.
-If no, buy elsewhere.

It's really as simple as that.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 18:19:35


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


ian wrote:

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible



I had read an article, I think maybe back in January (??) wherein the author (who actually has some decent credentials for the article) showed a definite trend that the Brick and Mortar shops are coming back. Yes, there was a period in the late aughts that physical stores were disappearing but, that trend is reversing/has reversed.

People in essence realized what a good shop is/looks like, and the good shop owners are meeting/exceeding that look. Sure, a B&M cannot cut prices as much as an online retailer, however, you cannot adequately get advice from an online retailer. One example the author used (he has a board game background) was a customer had previously bought a board game from him. They were in the market for a new game and sought his advice. Being able to question/pick apart/analyze what a person/group likes and dislikes about a product helped him fit that customer to a different product. He writes how on other occasions, people in his shop provided that feedback and demoed a product for/with another customer.


Long story short, I think we saw a period where many of the "bad" shops were run under because they were clueless as to what people wanted, and we saw the rise of internet dealers. I don't think internet dealers are going away, but the B&M shop is making something of a comeback as owners are realizing what they offer over online, and capitalizing on that.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 19:41:06


Post by: Racerguy180


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


Long story short, I think we saw a period where many of the "bad" shops were run under because they were clueless as to what people wanted, and we saw the rise of internet dealers. I don't think internet dealers are going away, but the B&M shop is making something of a comeback as owners are realizing what they offer over online, and capitalizing on that.


I wholeheartedly agree


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 20:39:45


Post by: Azreal13


Yep, it's all very meta.

Like a new army, people all cried the internet was OP, and there was nothing to be done to counter it and called for a nerf.

Then, slowly but surely, the B+M figured out that there were some things that internet couldn't deal with, and began to build their lists with a greater emphasis on those things.

Sure, certain list concepts have fallen by the wayside, and B+Ms that refused to adapt to the presence of internet in their local meta have struggled, but for those that are willing to adapt and change, new opportunities have opened up!


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/08 21:29:12


Post by: ian


There is a limit to the amount of things people need advice on.
Whilst i do think some types of b and m stores will develop like hobby based stores however they cannot compete with online sales, they just dont have the resources to have big warehouses ect.

So it really is down to us to make sure the local stores have a local market



Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/09 01:24:09


Post by: Fenris-77


You know, I'd disagree about the advice thing. Netlisting and forum advice is one thing (and not a bad thing btw). Having a high-end tournament player actually watch you play your list and give you advice while you do it (on more than one occasion potentially) is a whole other thing. Same goes for painting and converting - advice and discussion in person is a whole different beast than advice and discussion online.

That kind of service is one of the things that should help maintain and grow a local market. It's a service those hobbyists can't get online. And now we're back to "should you shop at your local store or not" and talking about the quality of the store in question. Nice.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/09 08:12:55


Post by: DarkBlack


 timetowaste85 wrote:
HuskyWarhammer wrote:
If you're paying a club due or fee, I would so no, you're not morally obligated to buy there.


Exactly this. I believe in “pay where you play”, and you’re doing that already. If the owner chose to go the route of paying for club dues, that should allow your conscience to be clean.

You are assuming the club fee is for the store owner. Which might be true, but the club fee could just as easily have nothing to do with the actual space..
Our club has a (small) fee to help us organise events (members play club event for free) and acquire tables and terrain. The store owner lets us use his space and keeps his shop open late (and give us a discount) for no charge.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/09 11:45:53


Post by: Process


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
ian wrote:

Most highstreet stores are disapearing because of online sales.
How long do you think hobby stores will last without customers

The internet seems to have changed our focus to how cheap can we get stuff and thats means strip back as much service as possible



I had read an article, I think maybe back in January (??) wherein the author (who actually has some decent credentials for the article) showed a definite trend that the Brick and Mortar shops are coming back. Yes, there was a period in the late aughts that physical stores were disappearing but, that trend is reversing/has reversed.

People in essence realized what a good shop is/looks like, and the good shop owners are meeting/exceeding that look. Sure, a B&M cannot cut prices as much as an online retailer, however, you cannot adequately get advice from an online retailer. One example the author used (he has a board game background) was a customer had previously bought a board game from him. They were in the market for a new game and sought his advice. Being able to question/pick apart/analyze what a person/group likes and dislikes about a product helped him fit that customer to a different product. He writes how on other occasions, people in his shop provided that feedback and demoed a product for/with another customer.


Long story short, I think we saw a period where many of the "bad" shops were run under because they were clueless as to what people wanted, and we saw the rise of internet dealers. I don't think internet dealers are going away, but the B&M shop is making something of a comeback as owners are realizing what they offer over online, and capitalizing on that.


I tried to make this point earlier but was disregarded because i am "obviously not aware of store running costs".

Brick and mortar shops have always held an advantage over online- many advantages in fact. The problem in this industry is most of the people who run the shops think the only way to make money is by selling models.

One FLGS owner i spoke to even went as far as to say "my GF said either get rid of the models or start a shop... so i started a shop", to him this is just an extension of a hobby and i suspect this is the same for a lot of shops that go out of business rather quickly.

Professionally speaking - Its downright unbelievable how ignorant some of these shop owners are as to how much money they could be making off people in this hobby, there seems to be a complete lack of predatory attitude towards sales, marketing and market research that just breeds failure and this attitude of entitlement.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/09 11:51:11


Post by: ian


But thats one thing that puts me off is forced sales


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/09 12:20:44


Post by: Process


ian wrote:
But thats one thing that puts me off is forced sales


Its not forced sales- Its marketing, presenting and building your business in a way that makes a customer feel they ARE obligated to buy from you.

If you have a shop that contributes to the community, has a great atmosphere, good product range (actually having new releases on release weekend.... imagine that), good tables, fun events... the list is endless; you will in turn feel that paying full RRP on a product is not only worth it but you will be happy to do so as well.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/09 21:01:25


Post by: Azreal13


But that's not cultivating an obligation, that's cultivating a desire.

Making a customer feel obligated is a very speedy and efficient way to not have customers any more.



Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/16 03:26:28


Post by: Azazelx


 Desubot wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Surprised by some of the responses in this thread.

A friend of mine used to own a FLGS. Someone spending $500 or more would usually get a deal on whatever they were buying, up to 25% off. He even did a Forgeworld order every 2 weeks, which meant everyone got free shipping.

I thought most FLGS' operated this way, and it's usually cheaper to buy from them.



It depends

some times you have to actually start a relationship become and regular and generally be a cool dood and talk.

its not something you should expect from a store, but you can absolutely work things out with people so long as you arent a social potato.


Sadly, sometimes the game store owners are the social potatos...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sneggy wrote:

The shop has a wide range and can direct order stuff in for you (order before monday and get it that thursday for GW product.) everything is 10%off. 15% off on orders over £100 and 20% off on orders over £250.


See, if I had a store like this locally I believe they would get a good chunk of my money anyway regardless of whether I played in store or not


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/20 00:19:10


Post by: viperidae99


I've been through many game stores over the years, and now buy exclusively online. With the 'Australia tax' on top of already ludicrous prices for most things, and then some gouging on top, it's ALWAYS cheaper for me to get something shipped to my door from the UK or Canada (used to be the US too, but shipping costs have become crazy lately).

I still remember my longest serving LGS had a great manager that built up huge goodwill (an often overlooked commodity) and a terrible owner who wanted maximum profits no matter what. I used to buy there exclusively, much to the vocal chargrin of the local GW, where we'd play the occasional game.

However, it got to the point where the LGS prices were double or more what everything cost online (with GW being even more), which became completely unjustifiable when looking to build a new army. The owner was mortally offended that none of us were grateful, when he'd have a 10% off sale and no one would buy. 190%! Gee, what a discount! Worse, they were the distributor for most stock and could easily have sold it cheap enough that people would buy out of loyalty.

I still remember how they refused to stock Infinity, so a mate organised import of all the books and miniatures line himself. He built the scene from scratch, ran tourneys himself and was in contact with Corvus Belli for prize support out of pure love for the game. Due to his hard work, Infinity took off and became quite profitable as everyone got into it. The store, seeing this, first insisted he supply them at a loss to himself, and when he refused they stocked it themselves, but at a massive markup over what we were all paying. They were furious we didn't immediately shift to buying from them. Because we owed them our loyalty dammit!

That store ended up firing its manager of 8 years, who we all followed to his next game store job, vindictively removed all gaming tables from the store 'to punish us' (which only hurt business more) and went out of business a short time later, after 20 years plus. With all that going on, there was no way 'loyalty' was going to force me to prop them up.

I've never felt bad about buying from non-local stores since. It's a global market now and I'm not a charity. Businesses compete or they die. Too many game stores just want to sell stuff without any effort to build a scene or attract customers, because prior to the internet, customers had no other choice. If you're in playing games regularly, and they allow you to do so without a 'buying stuff requirement', you may feel loyalty and want to reward them with your hard-earned dollars. Or you may not. But you never have to, even if you game there every day. It's on them to give you a reason to buy that you feel is justified, there's no obligation, and price is not the only way to communicate value.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/20 01:16:14


Post by: BuFFo


I live in Melbourne florida, and in the past 10+ years, there were three main gaming stores in the area.

Now there are only two.

Why did the third fail? They failed to cultivate a local respect for it's customers. They went with a mostly online business, and began selling 40k bits. By doing so, they ignored friday night magic, store sales, etc... for space to hire people to cut and sell bits.

So out of three stores, one attempted to go "online" it was the only one that closed.

The other two still function, and are doing quite well. They knew how important it was to foster a respect for the locals, providing something the internet cannot - a gaming space to meet like minded people and enjoy playing games.

Brick stores do just fine if the people running them aren't, fools.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/23 22:52:36


Post by: Easy E


In the defense of all business owners (Being one myself) most of them fail in the first 5 years. It is a ridiculously high number, so if you have one that lasts over 5 years you are the some of the lucky few. Businesses surviving is the exception, not the norm.

I would wager the closure rate is a combination of financial related, physical burn-out, and emotional toll.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/23 22:57:20


Post by: Racerguy180


 Easy E wrote:
In the defense of all business owners (Being one myself) most of them fail in the first 5 years. It is a ridiculously high number, so if you have one that lasts over 5 years you are the some of the lucky few. Businesses surviving is the exception, not the norm.

I would wager the closure rate is a combination of financial related, physical burn-out, and emotional toll.


Making it to the 5 year Mark is an achievement all it's own.


Should I be obliged to buy from my FLGS? @ 2018/03/25 03:56:41


Post by: Seawolf


I go to a FLGS for my convenience, and will support a store if the staff is reliable, friendly and knowledgeable. If the store is run by staff that isn't reliable, cliquish, or snobby then I can find other places to spend my coin.