The Northern Alliance infatry are a great realization of non-Chaos Northern Barbarian types. I can see them pulling double duty as Varangur Warband, ASOIF Wildlings, Erewhon Barbarians and in other settings. I definitely prefer them over the Frostgrave plastic Barbs (not that those look bad, but on first look Mantic´s are way better)
Very nice these will go well with my Fireforge stuff as alternate ASOIAF minis plus I can finish of my NA Vanguard. I have a load of Frostgrave Barbarians but I find them to small next to other companies minis great for kit bashing though and think some parts will mix well with Mantic’s kit.
The hunters are made from the same kit, so I assume they have Spears as their weapon option as the blog says that there will be double handed weapon and bow arm upgrade packs presumably in resin.
Ohoh, now that's a good surprise ! Looks like there are female and male warriors mixed in this kit. It's a clever move since they're covered in heavy clothes/furs. Now those, I believe they're coming from the North !
Chimera wings are too thick but that can be salvaged with plastic wings from another kit.
Titans are a new class of unit in Third Edition and typically come on a 75mm base. Of course, we’ve already seen some – like the Giant, Terror and Greater Earth Elemental – in Second Edition, but the launch of Third Edition gives us the chance to make even more (and even bigger) Titans.
Northern Alliance Lord on Chimera
Trident Realms Kraken
Basilean Phoenix
Goblin Slasher
The release schedule for these mighty Titans is as follows:
Frost Giant and Chimera – October
Kraken, Phoenix and Goblin Slasher – December
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also there were League of Infamy images posted on Twitter and BoW/OTT
Wow Mantic have really kicked it up a notch or seven thousand! Really liking their barbarians and that Goblin Slasher. They even found a painter who knows what fire looks like!
DaveC wrote: More League of Infamy stuff from Gencon
These are some really nice paintjobs.
Also in the second pic, these are some of the best looking elves I have seen (and finally with long hair, visible under their helmets/hoods). In case Mantic decides to update its elves with new ones that look like these, I think it is going to be a very profitable move!
corgan wrote: Also in the second pic, these are some of the best looking elves I have seen (and finally with long hair, visible under their helmets/hoods). In case Mantic decides to update its elves with new ones that look like these, I think it is going to be a very profitable move!
Had the same thought re: updating their elves to match this one
Dig the vamp / drow chick most of all. Also wow, just noticed that everybody even has their tiny lil' teeth painted O_O
The NotWildlings look pretty good. The other stuff is...classic Mantic though, and that's not a compliment. Will definitely keep an eye out for the folks from North of the wall.
Elbows wrote: The NotWildlings look pretty good. The other stuff is...classic Mantic though, and that's not a compliment. Will definitely keep an eye out for the folks from North of the wall.
I feel the same, can’t tell if it’s a wolfman or ratman.
Elbows wrote: The NotWildlings look pretty good. The other stuff is...classic Mantic though, and that's not a compliment. Will definitely keep an eye out for the folks from North of the wall.
I feel the same, can’t tell if it’s a wolfman or ratman.
He's an astrogator for one of the largest cruise lines in the galaxy. Some weekends he just likes to cut loose.
My guess is he's a were-dwarf or at least a lycanthrope aligned with the Abyssal Dwarfs. The facial hair is far too specific of style to be otherwise.
New stuff certainly looks nice. Don't know why you guys are knocking the Night Stalker stuff. It's pretty decent.
Kinda sad there's no kickstarter. I always enjoy watching the Mantic ones grow. Lack of lizards too, especially as we've seen a few new races pop up as heroes for KoW as well as whatever that necromancer is in the new undead warband for vanguard.
Wow! The KoW stuff is looking great! Loving the northern alliance figures, and especially all the TITANS!! Kind of surprised the ogre war mammoth they've talked about (and had rules for) forever isn't one of the first ones? Glad to see an Abyssal dwarf in the new game also. Always down for more evil dwarfs, and more Mammoths, especially when they're working together!
Nice to finally see them touch on something that isn't Walking Dead or Hellboy (though I know those are big money makers for them). Looking forward to the new ed. of KoW for sure now.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: My guess is he's a were-dwarf or at least a lycanthrope aligned with the Abyssal Dwarfs. The facial hair is far too specific of style to be otherwise.
New stuff certainly looks nice. Don't know why you guys are knocking the Night Stalker stuff. It's pretty decent.
Kinda sad there's no kickstarter. I always enjoy watching the Mantic ones grow. Lack of lizards too, especially as we've seen a few new races pop up as heroes for KoW as well as whatever that necromancer is in the new undead warband for vanguard.
In the previous page there is a picture of the "heroes" and it seems it's a rat ogre, in te KOW lore the chaos dwarf made the ratkin maybe they inherit their beards
My main worry now about the new plastics is that they will be as diminutive as the new Men Boychiks at Arms. If they're roughly the same size as the Frostgrave barbarians, Mantic will be leaving money on the table in a post-Conquest world.
My main worry now about the new plastics is that they will be as diminutive as the new Men Boychiks at Arms. If they're roughly the same size as the Frostgrave barbarians, Mantic will be leaving money on the table in a post-Conquest world.
Oh god no, I would be so disappointed if mantic ditched 28mm scale. I would be very happy with leaving that to GW and conquest!
My main worry now about the new plastics is that they will be as diminutive as the new Men Boychiks at Arms. If they're roughly the same size as the Frostgrave barbarians, Mantic will be leaving money on the table in a post-Conquest world.
Assuming it's a 20 mm base (basic infantry), I believe they're the same size than actual Basilea men at arms. So very 28 mm-ish.
For the League of Infamy, they're using the same base than for Dungeon Saga - 25 mm for "human size" miniatures.
Good to see a Snow Troll Prime even if it's just a new arm and head for the PVC mini. Mantic still can't do Bolt Throwers or at least their fantasy versions aren't well designed IMO.
Good to see a Snow Troll Prime even if it's just a new arm and head for the PVC mini. Mantic still can't do Bolt Throwers or at least their fantasy versions aren't well designed IMO.
You can see with the Troll regiment that the miniatures aren't that well designed to be put in close formation. Right arm is taking quite a lot of space on the right.
But that's Mantic Games : lots of individual ideas and lack of overall coherence.
I just noticed the bolt thrower is on skis. Must be nice once they're not on the snow !
They sure recycled a lot of their Vanguard miniatures, as expected. Their unit of half elven barbarians look funny for sure - it was predictable that they should have made at least two different poses at that time, but Mantic Games wanted to keep it as cheap as possible. It still shows a lot.
Oh well, as long as it's dirty cheap, fans will do something to make them look better, I'm sure.
DaveC wrote:a pity about the repeats on the Ice Kin.
QFT, I'm still shaking my head that they didn't have even 1 other sculpt created for those units. Because they did it for other Vanguard models that became units *points at NS troops like shadow hounds and stuff that got alternate sculpts for KOW*
Sarouan wrote:Awwww those snow foxes are so cute !
DaveC wrote:Tundra wolves
I mean even the foxes and wolves got 2 sculpts, plus a champ in the wolves' case! (Also I love the foxes and that there are two animal cav in the army )
kodos wrote: I am not sure if this is for real or just the picture
As the Naids also have 2 different pictures in different boxes, one being the same Vanguard model 10 times, the other a new unit with several poses
10 Hard Plastic Naiads
Resin Ice Naiad conversion set
Its a mix of the current HIPS Naiads with some resin parts. It looks like a mix of resin heads, arms, shields and a cover piece for the front of the torso.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 4th of November releases
3rd edition KoW hardback is up for order, as well as a bunch of other stuff to go along with it. I am torn on what I should get, just the book or one of the combo's, but I can't really tell where the value is to be found for this ie what the best deal to go for.
Really excited for the new book though, as well as the inclusion of 'Titan' sized units! Finally I can use my Mierce Chimera for something!
I dunno about "best value". That's pretty subjective for a book and much of what simply amounts to a bunch of extra tat. If you want all of that sort of extra stuff, like dioramas, etc. If you're indifferent to that stuff, probably just the rulebook.
It's really funny they're making collector editions, as if Mantic miniatures were seen as of high value on the second market. They should stop with their "Affordable wargaming" motto, because it's becoming less and less true IMHO.
Their price raise is real as well. Look at those Tundra wolves. On their fanatic facebook page, fans are already coming to defend their practices. Really make them look even closer to GW as years pass on.
Sarouan wrote: It's really funny they're making collector editions, as if Mantic miniatures were seen as of high value on the second market. They should stop with their "Affordable wargaming" motto, because it's becoming less and less true IMHO.
Their price raise is real as well. Look at those Tundra wolves. On their fanatic facebook page, fans are already coming to defend their practices. Really make them look even closer to GW as years pass on.
I think your confusing collecting and scalping if you get the diorama for example then it's most likely because you like it and want it, I know GW has conditioned people to scalp as much as possible on starter sets but it's not like any of GW collectors stuff is not just tat with no re sale value.
I mean the mugs...sorry collectors editions of the codexs are terrible value even compared to the old ones never mind anything else and they still sell.
Basicly people buy this stuff because they want it not because of the value and that goes for most collectors editions of anything.
Sarouan wrote: It's really funny they're making collector editions, as if Mantic miniatures were seen as of high value on the second market. They should stop with their "Affordable wargaming" motto, because it's becoming less and less true IMHO.
Collectors editions are more about squeezing out more money out of your hardcore fans(or whales if you will), then any second-market considerations.
Sarouan wrote: Their price raise is real as well. Look at those Tundra wolves. On their fanatic facebook page, fans are already coming to defend their practices. Really make them look even closer to GW as years pass on.
Consider that the wolves are decent-sized metal models when looking at the price. As far as I can tell their recent plastics seems to be inline with their other plastic kits.
But of course, if GW keeps raising prices that gives Mantic more room to raise prices as well
The northern alliance stuff looks great, but a bit disappointed with the mega army, way too much pvc (and snow trolls)
The clansmen however are top notch. Can't wait to see the resin add on kits for them.
These guys will be my second mantic army for sure.
I think your confusing collecting and scalping if you get the diorama for example then it's most likely because you like it and want it, I know GW has conditioned people to scalp as much as possible on starter sets but it's not like any of GW collectors stuff is not just tat with no re sale value.
I mean the mugs...sorry collectors editions of the codexs are terrible value even compared to the old ones never mind anything else and they still sell.
Basicly people buy this stuff because they want it not because of the value and that goes for most collectors editions of anything.
Pretty much agreed here - whether it's Mantic, GW, or Activison or Ubisoft. If people want that extra stuff, than more power to them. I only question the above poster calling the Collector's edition bundle "best value" when collector's editions are rarely that on an objective level, since the extra tat is entirely subjective. And again - cool and dandy if you want those extras.
It would have been nice for them to do the classic big hat look as GW seem to have abandoned it. To be honest, these could pass as an elite infantry unit for 'good' dwarfs. That said they do look nice, especially if they turn out to be HIPS.
Taaloc wrote:It would have been nice for them to do the classic big hat look as GW seem to have abandoned it.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Also look forward to seeing what other sculpts end up in the Abyssal Dwarf range.
Yeah, they could really lean into that classic (though not quite rogue trader) GW Big hat Chaos Dwarf look. I think with the lore stating that Hashut got killed by GorkaMorka (correct me if I'm wrong)? And the Fyreslayers pretty much capitalizing on the whole 'Fire/Lava, Bull-like Dragons aesthetic , I doubt GW will continue down that route with them. In fact, IIRC they were eluded to being somewhere (on an island) in the middle of the ocean in the realm of Metal?
Guess they're going to go down this route a bit more...
Spoiler:
I would love it if Mantic really leaned into it though, as it's definitely one of the reasons the Chaos Dwarfs gathered a following, was that it was so different looking than the typical Chaos stuff (there's an oxymoron for you and a band name <Typical Chaos> )
I definitely want more Bulls, Lamassu, fire magic , and Blunderbuss' .
Taaloc wrote:It would have been nice for them to do the classic big hat look as GW seem to have abandoned it.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Also look forward to seeing what other sculpts end up in the Abyssal Dwarf range.
Yeah, they could really lean into that classic (though not quite rogue trader) GW Big hat Chaos Dwarf look. I think with the lore stating that Hashut got killed by GorkaMorka (correct me if I'm wrong)? And the Fyreslayers pretty much capitalizing on the whole 'Fire/Lava, Bull-like Dragons aesthetic , I doubt GW will continue down that route with them. In fact, IIRC they were eluded to being somewhere (on an island) in the middle of the ocean in the realm of Metal?
Guess they're going to go down this route a bit more...
Spoiler:
I would love it if Mantic really leaned into it though, as it's definitely one of the reasons the Chaos Dwarfs gathered a following, was that it was so different looking than the typical Chaos stuff (there's an oxymoron for you and a band name <Typical Chaos> )
I definitely want more Bulls, Lamassu, fire magic , and Blunderbuss' .
I disagree.
I think Mantic should make it their own.
According to Matt Gilbert on Facebook: "WIP. Hard plastic. Arriving 2020." I assume that they will be relased at around the same time or shortly after the release of the AD warband for Vanguard in "early 2020", which hopefully contains a sprue of those.
Those Ice Naiads look a lot better than the default Trident Realms ones. It is a shame they didn't design them more in the style of the Naiad demon hunter from Dungeon Saga, she is a really cool mini.
Those Abyssal Dwarf look nice and detailed, it will be interesting to see how much of that detail makes it through the casting process. Here's hoping for some new Imperial/Clan Dwarf sculpts to shove in front of the nasty looking oldies.
I'm also unsure how his name is somehow tied to Kings of War or what heinous acts he's been up to.
Always seemed like a chill dude whenever I've seen him.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well... thanks for that random reminder that Phil Foglio is one of the great cancers of geekdom.
For those puzzled by the above remark, it is in response to Cygnnus earlier post, which links to Girl Genius, the webcomic by Phil and Kaja Foglio. Phil also drew "What's New with Phil and Dixie" for Dragon Magazine back in the 80's.
As for lord blackfang's seeming animosity towards Mr. Foglio, he'll need to explain that himself.
First time I've ever heard anything really negative about him, let alone describe him as a "great cancer of geekdom". He's an indy/freelance artist that's done art for everything from Magic:TG art to D&D comic strips in Dragon Magazine to actual comics to porn comics. He's got a pretty distinctive art style and is fairly prolific. Is it just the fact that he'll do art for anybody that pays him? Or because his actual writing ability/jokes are fairly mediocre?
I'm interested for the new background content. I thought C L Werner was writing a novel for KoW, too. Hopefully that will become available as an add on.
Oh, and Mantica now wants to be called Pannithor? Okay.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm interested for the new background content. I thought C L Werner was writing a novel for KoW, too. Hopefully that will become available as an add on.
Oh, and Mantica now wants to be called Pannithor? Okay.
He's writing a trilogy, but not as part of the RPGKS.
Another site I frequent found it by accident because they're not on the mailing list, and were expecting to get a backer message from the Mantic KS projects they backed in the past. Waiting until the final week/72 hours before pushing out a mail through the other projects, or not going to do that at all?
Well the new Mantic webstore had its first real test today with the preorder release of Hellboy expansion The Wild Hunt and LE resin Nimue
people have spent hours trying to buy them, often unsuccessfully
and worse yet it's now showing (& charging) the numerical $ prices but in £ for some customers
I thought there would some problems because any website never performs as well as the site builder promises but this seems worse than I expected
(especially the overcharging which a fair few on Facebook now think is Mantic gouging as the stuff proving very popular... it's not as they're already trying to get in contact with people reporting this issue to sort out refunds but not everybody is going to read that far down in the comments)
Edit: hopefully Mantic will be able to get some money back from the website designer as they seem to have overpromised and underdelivered
Ah, that's too bad to hear. Hopefully they get it sorted. People would be well advised not to attribute to malice what can be explained by ineptitude (the website designer).
I don't think it's fair to blame the web designer. Website backends are notoriously poorly optimized as they really don't need to be (as they are meant to just be given more server resources) and most web people aren't real backend devs so they only deal with the front end that runs on the clients box (which isn't ever the issue with these stores). Those that are capable of full stack and good at optimization end up working for much later companies or more cloud tech startups. So whoever is Matic's webguy is just using some off the self backend as it would cost mantic well over 6 figures to roll their own.
What's really causing the issue is lack of spending money on a more powerful server or more processing power if in AWS/Azure. Companies Mantic's size really don't want to spend a few thousand a month on servers just for a release so they don't and this happens. It's also hard to get a good engineer that can properly load test a site to see how much traffic it can handle and sales people at the hosting company probably told Mantic their $100 a month plan could cover the total number of expected people (which is could) but not all of them showing up in the same 10 minutes.
They again managed to lose every download in my library - I have to say that people should not buy Mantic digital products - this is not the first time that they managed to lose my account.
BIG thumbs down.
The Auld Grump - and I say this as somebody that loves Mantic games.
Tough to see someone like Auld having this trouble as they are obviously a dyed in the wool supporter. Just frustrating all around as they have been a paragon of strength in the "other than the 100 pound gorilla" option in the marketplace when it comes to fantasy rank and flank and somewhat in the sci-fi skirmish arena as well.
TheAuldGrump wrote: They again managed to lose every download in my library - I have to say that people should not buy Mantic digital products - this is not the first time that they managed to lose my account.
BIG thumbs down.
The Auld Grump - and I say this as somebody that loves Mantic games.
I have a few Mantic Digital products I've purchased over the years. I have no idea where a link to these even is on the new website. Mind you, I think most are now out of date or will be by December.
Mind you, I bought CoK19 and that had about as much shelf life as a GW book.
I realize people like the drama of potential double 1's, but it's too often the decider in a close game IMO.
This is a good compromise. It's still a big boon to have a unit survive against the odds, but you're still guaranteed something for grinding it down above it's whole routing value.
TheAuldGrump wrote: They again managed to lose every download in my library - I have to say that people should not buy Mantic digital products - this is not the first time that they managed to lose my account.
BIG thumbs down.
The Auld Grump - and I say this as somebody that loves Mantic games.
I have a few Mantic Digital products I've purchased over the years. I have no idea where a link to these even is on the new website. Mind you, I think most are now out of date or will be by December.
Mind you, I bought CoK19 and that had about as much shelf life as a GW book.
Though, given that CoK is a yearly update... it is kind of excusable. (Remember when Mordheim was supposed to get yearly updates, and did... once?)
***
Mantic dropped all of my old orders into Dropbox for me - it appears that the root of the problem - both times - is that I was registered on Mantic Digital via Kickstarter - and their service provider did not supply the names and e-mails of those that came in from Kickstarter when Mantic took it in house. (I gather legal action of some flavor was involved in the process.)
So as far as their new system was concerned, I was a brand new member. as opposed to having been there since the KS for the first edition of Kings of War. So their host dropped me the first time because they had not bothered storing all of the customer info?
Fortunately, I am an e-mail pack rat, and had order numbers for about 80% of the missing files.
A bad habit that gets reinforced by the number of times it turns out to have been a good habit....
Sarouan wrote: Just accept Mantic Games is a cheap GW, and you'll be fine.
A cheaper GW with better rulesets, Sounds good enough for me
QFT!
Y'all see this?
Love it myself, tho I'm hoping this is the only hit to Double 1's and we don't get a double nerf.
Yes, a special rule made for a very specific case that happens not that often in game, just because of the drama some players like to make a bigger deal of it on the Internet.
Doesn't sound like a better ruleset to me. Actually, it really sounds like what GW would have done for WFB in the past. Thanks for this series of quotes, indeed, I appreciate the irony here.
Doesn't sound like a better ruleset to me. Actually, it really sounds like what GW would have done for WFB in the past. Thanks for this series of quotes, indeed, I appreciate the irony here.
For me it sounds like the opposite of what GW would have done, but to each his own
And I would count an additional small special rule that solves a problem for some players, even if it was a minor one, making a better rule set.
Or in other words I cannot understand while one consider not solving a problem to making the rules better
Doesn't sound like a better ruleset to me. Actually, it really sounds like what GW would have done for WFB in the past. Thanks for this series of quotes, indeed, I appreciate the irony here.
For me it sounds like the opposite of what GW would have done, but to each his own
And I would count an additional small special rule that solves a problem for some players, even if it was a minor one, making a better rule set.
Or in other words I cannot understand while one consider not solving a problem to making the rules better
Because there was no problem at the start ? It's like fixing a hole that never existed, by drilling another hole elsewhere.
Think about it, in KoW units always fight to their full capabilities or do nothing. There is no in-betweens. This rule is bringing that, and only to the units who got a double one on a morale test. This is so specific and different from the core rules, you can only ask : why only in this case and not the same for everyone ? There are far more troubling concerns, like the overpowering hordes / monsters with high values of morale, that can fight longer to their full capabilities all the time in comparison to troops or regiments. Why not halving their attacks too if they take too heavy damages ?
But no, let's do it to those units having luck, so that competitive players who can't stand dice not rolling in their favor "ruin" their plan/games are happy. That's how you fix the game.
Saruoan is really the grumpiest grump ever seen, do you actually play this game or are you just here for bashing Mantic?
If you are just here to bash Mantic, then go after their minis, the rules of KoW have been really great for 2nd ed, better with each CoK and practically all the leaked rules for 3rd looks great for the gameplay.
I was not hopeful they would make infantry better for example, but man did they! Measuring from the closest point is a massive boost for hordes of infantry.
Fixing 1" rule is great, making hills useful is great, phalanx changes are great, army specific upgrades, tiered item costs +++
Only thing that sucks for me personally is that EoD chariots are irregular, bye bye to my chariot heavy EoD army.
Illumini wrote: Saruoan is really the grumpiest grump ever seen, do you actually play this game or are you just here for bashing Mantic?
There are loads of GW-haters who actively troll every GeeDub release, so it seems natural for Mantic-haters to do the same. I suppose it shows Mantic has arrived as a publisher
Only thing that sucks for me personally is that EoD chariots are irregular, bye bye to my chariot heavy EoD army.
I've been wary of Mantic double-nerfing things, and it does feel like shooting chariots have been double nerfed a bit, by losing half of their shooting and becoming irregular - as well as the changes to phalanx, etc. On the whole, tho, I love what I'm seeing of 3E.
In fact, just finishing up a new Trident Realm army for a 2E tournament this weekend, and I think a lot of us are just in it for the mayhem at this point, with the shakeup just around the corner. Excited to repoint my armies and see where they fall.
Illumini wrote: Saruoan is really the grumpiest grump ever seen, do you actually play this game or are you just here for bashing Mantic?
Of course I'm playing. Why do you think I actually know the rules I'm ranting about ? I don't like that so called "fix" because I believe it's a bad move to make a special rule completely going against the core principles of KoW (there was no effect on numbers of attacks because of morale test before), especially for such a trivial matter than the double 1 result on morale tests. Seriously, only competitive players not able to handle dice are making that a bigger trouble than it really is.
But hey, feel free to say it's just "Mantic hate". I'm just not blindly hyped by a new edition pulled right off the hat, while I still remember the CoK 2019 being sold not so long ago and acting like there was no new edition coming and actually making the CoK you bought completely useless. Since Mantic fanboys like to brag about how Mantic is so much better than GW, here is a good reminder that they are actually no better than them in more than one situation.
If you are just here to bash Mantic, then go after their minis, the rules of KoW have been really great for 2nd ed, better with each CoK and practically all the leaked rules for 3rd looks great for the gameplay.
Yeah, I like 2nd edition, not so much when the Rule Comitee began to add more and more special rules or "fixing" problems because a minority of the gamer community is ranting online about stuff they've met in tournaments. And 3rd edition is looking more and more like that to me.
So you'll excuse me if I'm not especially enthousiastic about every preview Mantic Games is showing us while expecting a wave of fanboys clapping their hands everytime they're farting.
I was not hopeful they would make infantry better for example, but man did they! Measuring from the closest point is a massive boost for hordes of infantry.
Boosting hordes will not make the game better...trouble with basic infantry is the comparison with Monstruous Infantry. They don't seem to have fixed the core problem behind that matter to me, so far.
Full Disclosure: I'd be 100% fine if 3E just adjusted the points, ingested the formation unit buffs and did away with the concept for a while, and nerfed Flying somehow. I don't necessarily want all this extra stuff.
So I'm happy to see additional changes that look manageable, thought-out and fun. Am I concerned that too much is being added to what was a fundamentally simple system? Sure. But I'm hopeful the game experience will remain the same largely stream-lined sweet spot we're in now, with some wrinkles ironed out (double 1 NPE) and some flavor added. What I personally need from 3E is increased balance; however I also know that what others need is more flavor and more depth.
Hopefully we can all be happy with where the game lands.
Hopefully we can all be happy with where the game lands.
Honestly, I wish you're right. I love KoW for the way it manages to make a great mass battle system while keeping it simple. The reason the army lists feel so balanced even so they are many are thanks to that, so that's why I'm wary of having too many new special rules for the sake of having special rules. That makes me remember the slippery slope of Warhammer Fantasy Battle in their last years.
I would have been glad if they just upgraded the background and made minor modifications like the layout, indeed, but I guess that wouldn't justify a new edition and selling a new core rule book (because that's the point of a new edition, just like GW did - making customers buy everything once again)
I'll see once I have the full picture with the book in hand, even if that rule for the double 1 really annoys me. As long as it's just an annoyance and the rest is great, I'll manage to handle it.
I don't often agree with Sarouan, but I'm leaning his way in some of his arguments.
The minute you add more and more special rule keywords, and exceptions to other rules, and more and more special rules, you've turned a great game into a GW game.
KoW's joy, is it's simplicity.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I don't often agree with Sarouan, but I'm leaning his way in some of his arguments.
The minute you add more and more special rule keywords, and exceptions to other rules, and more and more special rules, you've turned a great game into a GW game.
KoW's joy, is it's simplicity.
I agree with this, special rule bloat is the antithesis of the spirirt of Kings of War
Gimgamgoo wrote: I don't often agree with Sarouan, but I'm leaning his way in some of his arguments.
The minute you add more and more special rule keywords, and exceptions to other rules, and more and more special rules, you've turned a great game into a GW game.
KoW's joy, is it's simplicity.
I agree with this, special rule bloat is the antithesis of the spirirt of Kings of War
This is true. I don't think we need to worry just yet, but I hope we don't go much further in this direction.
From the team behind hit games such as Hellboy: The Board Game and Dungeon Saga: The Dwarf’s Kings Quest, League of Infamy is an occasionally co-operative dungeon crawler for 1-5 players, where it pays to commit dastardly deeds and partake in foul thievery – often against your own party.
Join a rogue’s gallery of misfits, ne’er-do-wells and miscreants on a disgraceful mission to kidnap cute little baby Drakons, steal their eggs and viciously wipe out any irritating, goody-goody Elves that try to stop your nefarious schemes.
But it’s not just the Elves you’ll need to keep a wary eye on. Your fellow (mis)adventurers are just as likely to betray you and steal your loot, shove you into harm’s way or just leave you in a dungeon full of unbeatable foes. As they like to say in the League of Infamy – ‘keep your enemies close but keep your friends at knifepoint’.
Coming soon to Kickstarter, the opening pledge for League of Infamy includes incredibly detailed pre-assembled miniatures, almost 200 cards, more than 200 tokens, six action-packed missions, seven playable villains and lots of great Kickstarter exclusive content. But that's just the beginning and with your help, we'll be able to add more villains, more loot, more skills and (most importantly) more anarchy.
Better proportions for the elves, at last. Otherwise, well, it's very classic so very Mantica - sorry, I meant Pannithor. Funny to see the dragons are litterally the baby versions from GoT.
It will fund as a kickstarter, no problem. Even though I don't believe they need to kickstart it at all.
I expect the core elves from this game to become the next core elves for KoW in a future mega army set, with miniatures having the same pose over and over and over. But yeah, they will look good, I'm sure of it.
Hmmm. I'm not sure. I went way in on the Dungeon Saga kickstarter based on the vibe that the Adventurer's Companion would be the Warhammer Quest add-on to the core game's Heroquest. Then Jake Thornton decided that since he hated WHQ, he wasn't going to write it that way.
I got a lot of decent dungeon minis and tiles, but I still feel pretty burned on the game rules.
On the flipside Jake didn't work on Hellboy. That was based on James Hewitt's rules (who also did Warhammer Quest Silver Tower).
I wasn't super happy with how the Adventurer's Companion turned out either. So much so that I never bothered to give the quest generation system from Star Saga a try yet, despite owning it for some time (and enjoying Star Saga much more than the Dungeon version).
.Mikes. wrote: Overall pretty good. Not really sure about the werehamster though.
Werehamster and fat baby dragon are fails IMO, but otherwise a really nice set of minis who will be great heroes in KOW as well as their own game. And yea, time to update your ancient Elf line with these bodies, Mantic
I think the minis look great except for the fat rat. I like they have steady poses, not some crazy weird dynamic stances.
I'd like to see a bigger picture though.
Hulksmash wrote: I probably missed it but why just 14 armies in the main book. Don't they have like 22 army lists once you count everything and the new stuff?
I think it's because Mantic is starting to shift slowly towards promoting their own products instead of "use what thou wilt". Didn't check, but if I remember correctly the 14 armies in the main book correspond to stuff they have a line for, while the extra factions that will launch in a supplement 6 weeks after release will have armies that existed in 2nd ed. but don't have specific Mantic miniatures. So drawing a clear line.
This is quite reasonable. Their miniatures becoming better and better is also a point in favor (despite price hike).
Hulksmash wrote: I probably missed it but why just 14 armies in the main book. Don't they have like 22 army lists once you count everything and the new stuff?
I think it's because Mantic is starting to shift slowly towards promoting their own products instead of "use what thou wilt". Didn't check, but if I remember correctly the 14 armies in the main book correspond to stuff they have a line for, while the extra factions that will launch in a supplement 6 weeks after release will have armies that existed in 2nd ed. but don't have specific Mantic miniatures. So drawing a clear line.
This is quite reasonable. Their miniatures becoming better and better is also a point in favor (despite price hike).
The line is a bit more blurred than that, the distinction would be better described as "developing full range" in the main book.
Psychopomp wrote: Hmmm. I'm not sure. I went way in on the Dungeon Saga kickstarter based on the vibe that the Adventurer's Companion would be the Warhammer Quest add-on to the core game's Heroquest. Then Jake Thornton decided that since he hated WHQ, he wasn't going to write it that way.
I got a lot of decent dungeon minis and tiles, but I still feel pretty burned on the game rules.
I felt the same way about the rules, but less generous on the quality of the miniatures, as so many of them were badly warped and there was a lot of small, spindly Mantic-ness to many of them as well. Some were nice, though, to be fair...
The rules and Adventurer's Companion BS was what stopped me from even backing Star Saga.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Was there a firm answer to what will happen to KoW Historical? I always really enjoyed the KoW ruleset and it worked nicely for me to run Historical Battles without needing to learn another set of rues, not to mention supplementing human armies with approriate fantasy/mythological elements or vice versa (ie Vikings plus trolls and werewolves), Greeks plus Minotaurs, Skeletons, Hydras, etc)
Hulksmash wrote: I probably missed it but why just 14 armies in the main book. Don't they have like 22 army lists once you count everything and the new stuff?
Here are all of the armies releasing for KOW 3E:
Main Book:
01 Abyssal Dwarfs 02 Dwarfs 03 Elves 04 Empire of Dust 05 Forces of Basilea 06 Forces of Nature 07 Forces of the Abyss 08 Goblins 09 Nightstalkers 10 Northern Alliance 11 Ogres 12 Orcs 13 Trident Realm 14 Undead
Armies of Pannithor Book:
15 Free Dwarfs 16 Kingdoms of Men 17 League of Rhordia 18 Order of the Brothermark 19 Order of the Green Lady 20 Ratkin 21 Ratkin Slaves 22 Salamanders 23 Sylvan Kin 24 The Herd 25 Twilight Kin 26 Varangur
There's a second book with more lists that follows ~8 weeks later. Not a fan of splitting them in half - I would rather fluff + rules // all army lists if they had to make two books, released at the same time - but whatever, I work in publishing so I can imagine some of the production issues that may be driving this, on top of profit seeking.
Several of the Pannithor lists are derivatives of another army or are remixes of a couple. Varangur are Northern Alliance except evil and with some units dropped and extra ones added, maybe with some items or new special rule or something, for example. Free Dwarfs focus on non-blackpowder units, with rangers forming the core and maybe berserkers as regular line troops (changed to irregular in the Dwarf list). Ratkin Slaves, on the other hand, have been mentioned as a combo of Abyssal Dwarfs + Ratkins (maybe this ends up being the 'mad science + slave blocks' of most Skaven armies of old?)
It does make me happy I very recently painted a Trident army, as otherwise I'd be left waiting until Dec to get my rats or sallies on the 3E table
lord_blackfang wrote: Wood Elves also going their own way then? And two flavours of Bretonnia? I'm not sure I approve of all these splinter lists.
Pretty sure Brets are best served by the Brothermark (a subset of ... Basileans?) tho they could do KOM if they fancied, and if you mean Sylvan Kin, my guess is that's Elves + Nature. We don't know much about the remixed armies yet, but it's an interesting choice likely done to maintain balance as well as maximize Mantic's limited sculpting / production capacity.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wood Elves also going their own way then? And two flavours of Bretonnia? I'm not sure I approve of all these splinter lists.
Its helps if you remember that there's technically no such thing as Bretonnia in King of War, and that the Brotherhood has, in the background, been almost wiped out by the war with the Abyss.
What was the last non-boardgame Mantic KS, and how were the models and delivery? Was it KoW Vanguard?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Also Zombicide. Also Oathsworn. Also also everything else.
There's always something running on kickstarter.
That said I dig the Pond Warden and the Placoderm guy. Armored fishies are close enough to reptiles so they're a thumbs up in my book.
Not gonna be a good time, though - Zombicide is always a big one as it seems to cross over with our crowd pretty heavily as well as the BG guys, as does Bones. True there's always something, but it seems like these are two of the ones that are less likely to be useful to release against. I think there's some other annual campaign/event around this time of year soon that often takes people's money, and then GW releases those battle boxes around then, too. Might be a PM-only one for me at absolute best case...
Love the minis but I'm not in love with the idea of playing villains. It might be fun but I kinda wish they'd just stuck with the idea of producing a version of Dungeon Saga that doesn't suck.
This might be up my gaming groups alley. I bought the DS base set but we never got around playing it because no one was excited about playing a purely co-op game, so a similar game with a competitive twist might do the trick.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That said I dig the Pond Warden and the Placoderm guy. Armored fishies are close enough to reptiles so they're a thumbs up in my book.
Best thing about the Placo guy? We finally might get a Placo unit for KOW! That hopefully has more than just that one sculpt
Lots of unexpected, great sculpts piggybacking on this KS, very excited for them to hit general release in ... a year? Plus? I'm being very good with my KS moneys and waiting to go hard on Ankh
Speaking of cool ogres, there's also an Ogre guitarist not pictured here, trying to find it without logging into FB ...
LEAGUE OF INFAMY KICKSTARTER LAUNCHES 8PM (UK TIME) MONDAY, OCTOBER 28th
In the Kickstarter Edition you'll play through the League's latest mission to infiltrate the elven sanctuary. Play through a campaign of six missions, uncover loot, learn new skills and stitch up your team 'mates' as much as possible. Highlights of the Kickstarter Edition include:
six playable villains
five bosses, including that mighty Elf Lord on Drakon
a load of pesky elf minions to kill as horribly as possible
almost 200 gameplay cards
more than 200(!) game tokens
plus more...
Elf Lord on Drakon
Spoiler:
MASTER OF SHADOWS PLEDGE!
But that's not all! As well as the standard Kickstarter Edition, from day one of the campaign, you'll be able to show your allegiance to the League with the awesome Master of Shadows pledge.
This includes everything mentioned above and two fantastic expansions: No Half Measures and Siren's Wrath. Each of these expansions introduces loads of new gameplay, more minions to tackle, powerful bosses and even more looooooooot! The expansions will be available to purchase separately too.
In the No Half Measures expansion, you must investigate reports of an ancient form of long-forgotten magic: gastromancy! Deal with halflings as strong as an ogre or tricky traps with toxic poisons. It's not all bad though, because you might come across a tasty pie or two to loot!
Chef
Spoiler:
In the Kickstarter Exclusive Siren's Wrath expansion, the League is furious that the Trident Realm is messing with one of its most important trade routes... which absolutely won't do! You're sent in to raid the Trident Realm keep and gather as many goods as you can. However, this will be your hardest mission yet, as the Keep Master takes advantage of the aquatic landscape. And yes.. that is a Depth Horror.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this game.
We have Vanguard for a fantasy skirmish. We have Dungeon Saga for dungeon exploration.
If this is just to get the funding for a load of minis for either Vanguard or KoW, why not just do a KS and be straight up about it.
Edit... but going to KS while a big time CMON one like Zombicide is running may not be good timing.
Because it's the same than GW's approach. By doing a different game, you can reach for new customers while still giving something for your existing ones. It's mostly for the purpose of gaining more people to buy their products, really.
I know, Mantic fanboys will keep saying Mantic Games is so much better than GW, but in the end they use the same tricks - just on a different scale.
And they do a Kickstarter because it's much more interesting for them financially (also, they're pretty much assured to get a huge load of money thanks to their fanbase).
You can see they actually have pretty much everything in the base game ready. They have miniatures, they are painted and everything. They don't need the KS to make the game nor the miniatures. They're just after the big load of money and the publicity. Now, there are things they'll still have to do, of course, and the KS will help for that, but it's pretty much a big pre-order sale here rather than really helping them to make the game.
I know, Mantic fanboys will keep saying Mantic Games is so much better than GW, but in the end they use the same tricks - just on a different scale.
You keep saying this in every Mantic thread, but I'm not convinced it's true. I think most Mantic fans recognize that both Mantic and GW are profit driven companies, we just dont think Mantic is as egregious about it as GW.
I find the idea of a villains' dungeon crawl intriguing, but I can't pledge for this. This might be the first non-zombie Blaine I pass up.
Most of the sculpts shown are pretty good, too. That Drakon looks like an animatronic from some 80's B-movie; I live it. I want to see it fighting John Ratzenberger in a high school gymnasium or something.
I know, Mantic fanboys will keep saying Mantic Games is so much better than GW, but in the end they use the same tricks - just on a different scale.
You keep saying this in every Mantic thread, but I'm not convinced it's true. I think most Mantic fans recognize that both Mantic and GW are profit driven companies, we just dont think Mantic is as egregious about it as GW.
You didn't lurk on their facebook fanatic page, I believe. This is why I keep saying this. And your comment is exactly what I'm talking about : you still believe Mantic Games does it better, while it's not true. They just do it on a smaller scale because they can't do it on the same than GW. They don't have neither the size nor the money to achieve this (and they know their fanbase isn't big enough to allow themselves to get them angry too much - well, with the changes in 3rd edition and a lot of people not being happy about their unit unlocks, they still can allow themselves to get a small part angry, just not too much). But if they did ? There is no doubt they would have gone the full way down.
Profit doesn't have an end - it just scales with the size of the company.
Curious as to why they went with a base size (looks like 25mm) that's not compatible with most KoW model base sizes (many should be 20mm).
Have they mentioned anything about this? Odd design choice, given the cross compatibility of their minis n games.
Oh, it's linked to the squares on their game tiles. It's exactly the same as Dungeon Saga. I guess it's mainly an aesthetic choice. But you could change the bases to 20 mm, it doesn't change anything in game mechanics, I think.
I know, Mantic fanboys will keep saying Mantic Games is so much better than GW, but in the end they use the same tricks - just on a different scale.
You keep saying this in every Mantic thread, but I'm not convinced it's true. I think most Mantic fans recognize that both Mantic and GW are profit driven companies, we just dont think Mantic is as egregious about it as GW.
You didn't lurk on their facebook fanatic page, I believe. This is why I keep saying this. And your comment is exactly what I'm talking about : you still believe Mantic Games does it better, while it's not true. They just do it on a smaller scale because they can't do it on the same than GW. They don't have neither the size nor the money to achieve this (and they know their fanbase isn't big enough to allow themselves to get them angry too much - well, with the changes in 3rd edition and a lot of people not being happy about their unit unlocks, they still can allow themselves to get a small part angry, just not too much). But if they did ? There is no doubt they would have gone the full way down.
Profit doesn't have an end - it just scales with the size of the company.
I really don't even get the purpose of this argument/discussion. So what if they're releasing another boardgame to attract people? How is that a negative? How is GW doing it a bad thing? If the game is decent who cares? Why are people getting cranky about this? it's seriously one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on this board. Oh no, a company is making a new game and charging for it! How dare they!
I know, Mantic fanboys will keep saying Mantic Games is so much better than GW, but in the end they use the same tricks - just on a different scale.
You keep saying this in every Mantic thread, but I'm not convinced it's true. I think most Mantic fans recognize that both Mantic and GW are profit driven companies, we just dont think Mantic is as egregious about it as GW.
You didn't lurk on their facebook fanatic page, I believe. This is why I keep saying this. And your comment is exactly what I'm talking about : you still believe Mantic Games does it better, while it's not true. They just do it on a smaller scale because they can't do it on the same than GW. They don't have neither the size nor the money to achieve this (and they know their fanbase isn't big enough to allow themselves to get them angry too much - well, with the changes in 3rd edition and a lot of people not being happy about their unit unlocks, they still can allow themselves to get a small part angry, just not too much). But if they did ? There is no doubt they would have gone the full way down.
Well if they ever become as big as GW and start acting like GW, we can complain about it then I guess. Seems a little premature to do it now though
I really don't even get the purpose of this argument/discussion. So what if they're releasing another boardgame to attract people? How is that a negative? How is GW doing it a bad thing? If the game is decent who cares? Why are people getting cranky about this? it's seriously one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on this board. Oh no, a company is making a new game and charging for it! How dare they!
If it is a negative, it's mostly for the Kickstarter projects that really need this money to exist, not as like Mantic Games and CMON use it as a very long term pre-order store. But that's completely another matter for sure.
And no, I don't mind them doing this project. The elves look nice, after all, and if they can make a nice mega army deal once everything is out, better for the KoW elf players, right ?
I'm not saying a company shouldn't do that. I'm just saying the myth of Mantic Games being better than GW is just that : a myth. And it's becoming clearer and clearer as time pass on and Mantic doing stuff looking "out of touch" for a part of their customer base. But fans will be fans, no matter the game nor the company, you're right.
Those are pretty minis. Prettier even than the giant box of Dungeon Saga I still have in the cardboard shipping box.
I wish there were a Dungeon Saga / Adventurer's Companion 2.0 KS - either instead of or as part of this one - to finally follow through on the promises of "base game is like Heroquest; the Adventurer's Companion makes it like Advance Heroquest / Warhammer Quest" promises we got back in 2014.
I'm not sure about this one. I haven't heard any similar promises, and to be honest "Heroquest again, but as the bad guys!" doesn't interest me much. Also, between Bones V, Zombicide 2e, and Frostgrave Perilous Dark, I'm already pretty skint on hobby funds for this month and the next.
I'll keep an eye on League of Infamy, but so far nothing's won my participation.
I wish there were a Dungeon Saga / Adventurer's Companion 2.0 KS - either instead of or as part of this one - to finally follow through on the promises of "base game is like Heroquest; the Adventurer's Companion makes it like Advance Heroquest / Warhammer Quest" promises we got back in 2014.
I would rather think that if they do something for Dungeon Saga, it will be an entirely new game system akind to League of Infamy. Maybe another KS later, with the opportunity to make new miniatures as well.
I guess they could include a "reverse mode" in League of Infamy so that you play a group of heroes, but I doubt it. It's kinda the purpose of this game to focus on a party of villains ready to stab their companions in the back if they can gain something of it. What I mean is there are clearly mechanisms intended to work with a party of villains, rather than them being the opponents - it would work weird with a party of heroes like in DS, IMHO. But I do understand it's not that appealing to play the bad guys in a dungeon crawler game. My friends being fond of Dungeon Saga are feeling the same than you. Yet, they are still thrilled to have something that can be used for Dungeon Saga in the end.
Sarouan wrote: ...I guess they could include a "reverse mode" in League of Infamy so that you play a group of heroes, but I doubt it. It's kinda the purpose of this game to focus on a party of villains ready to stab their companions in the back if they can gain something of it. What I mean is there are clearly mechanisms intended to work with a party of villains, rather than them being the opponents - it would work weird with a party of heroes like in DS, IMHO.
I can't remember exactly where, but I remember one of the designers saying it was possible to run the game not only as a co-op experience, but to skip the rules where you cause harm to each other if that was your thing. By the sounds of it, adapting the game to playing heroes wouldn't be all that difficult.
Sarouan wrote: ...I guess they could include a "reverse mode" in League of Infamy so that you play a group of heroes, but I doubt it. It's kinda the purpose of this game to focus on a party of villains ready to stab their companions in the back if they can gain something of it. What I mean is there are clearly mechanisms intended to work with a party of villains, rather than them being the opponents - it would work weird with a party of heroes like in DS, IMHO.
I can't remember exactly where, but I remember one of the designers saying it was possible to run the game not only as a co-op experience, but to skip the rules where you cause harm to each other if that was your thing. By the sounds of it, adapting the game to playing heroes wouldn't be all that difficult.
True enough. After all, Mantic Games did made a special scenario for Dungeon Saga in the KoW campaign with the main protagonists / antagonists going to war with huge armies, where you played a party of villains with the necromancer in a dungeon filled with dwarves. So it shouldn't be that difficult to adapt the rules of League of Infamy the same way.
Anyway, we'll certainly know a bit more tomorrow !
Heh, I sure didn't expect the battlecat would be a boss.
Love that they went classic with the harpies - bird women with wings as arms. They said it's EU friendly for shipping, but not sure they did take the Brexit really into account here.
Already more than 40000 pounds pledged for now, with the 50000 minimum. I expect it to fund before tomorrow. 15 days to go !
I'm on the fence. One the one hand, I'd like to be able to play Dungeon Saga fully co-op, and it seems that this game will update the Invisible Overlord/Keep Master rules. On the other hand 175 GBP is an awful lot of money. Also, the little elf cat is called a larynx, a misspelling that I'm having trouble getting past...
JoshInJapan wrote: I'm on the fence. One the one hand, I'd like to be able to play Dungeon Saga fully co-op, and it seems that this game will update the Invisible Overlord/Keep Master rules. On the other hand 175 GBP is an awful lot of money. Also, the little elf cat is called a larynx, a misspelling that I'm having trouble getting past...
I just realised this is in GBP not USD it looks rather more expensive as a result.
I’d be wary of Mantic’s shipping promises they do what suits them best they could say they’ll look into a European hub and end up shipping from the UK anyway. Unless they put that comment about a European hub in the FAQ or shipping section they could (and have in the past) disregard they ever said it.
I mean if we're being totally honest here Mantic have failed to deliver on stretch goals then tried to say that posting those goals was a mistake when people questioned them on it.
I know, Mantic fanboys will keep saying Mantic Games is so much better than GW, but in the end they use the same tricks - just on a different scale.
You keep saying this in every Mantic thread, but I'm not convinced it's true. I think most Mantic fans recognize that both Mantic and GW are profit driven companies, we just dont think Mantic is as egregious about it as GW.
You didn't lurk on their facebook fanatic page, I believe. This is why I keep saying this. And your comment is exactly what I'm talking about : you still believe Mantic Games does it better, while it's not true. They just do it on a smaller scale because they can't do it on the same than GW. They don't have neither the size nor the money to achieve this (and they know their fanbase isn't big enough to allow themselves to get them angry too much - well, with the changes in 3rd edition and a lot of people not being happy about their unit unlocks, they still can allow themselves to get a small part angry, just not too much). But if they did ? There is no doubt they would have gone the full way down.
Profit doesn't have an end - it just scales with the size of the company.
I really don't even get the purpose of this argument/discussion. So what if they're releasing another boardgame to attract people? How is that a negative? How is GW doing it a bad thing? If the game is decent who cares? Why are people getting cranky about this? it's seriously one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on this board. Oh no, a company is making a new game and charging for it! How dare they!
I think his only point is 'Me no like Mantic! Grrr!'
I relegate his posts to not worth bothering with. Kind of boring. I was a bit the same way about GW before Rountree took over, so I can't complain too much. (My first GW purchase in years - Contrast paints. Because they are kind of awesome.)
My only complaint about the game, right now, is that it is more expensive then I would have preferred - not too expensive for what is in it, just that right now I would have preferred a smaller game with a lower price point. We have a pirate ship on our horizon, via the Bones KS and the gravitational pull on our wallets is nigh inescapable.
I relegate his posts to not worth bothering with. Kind of boring. I was a bit the same way about GW before Rountree took over, so I can't complain too much. (My first GW purchase in years - Contrast paints. Because they are kind of awesome.)
Nah, I like Mantic when they do things right. Not when they feth up and hide behind their fanbase happy to defend them no matter what. Of course, that's my point of view and I agree I'm not really diplomatic most of the time.
Still, I play their games. I know, it sounds hard to believe for some !
But feel free to see what I'm saying as being irrelevant, it doesn't matter. Just means you're quick to judge and jump the gun, that's all.
And yeah, their games/products are significantly more expensive than before. Of course, you can always say it's unavoidable, they're a company making profit, yada yada. You know that kind of argument, I believe.
Lots of great sculpts for KOW in there, loving the Trident in particular, the Nokken is the only sculpt in that set that I don't insta-love. I've been threatening to make a Riverguard force, will be even more likely when these new frogs/toads get ported over. Also holy hell, baby gigas nao please.
EDIT: Oh damn, owl bears as Guardian Brutes instead of the minos we've all assumed? I dig it
Aye, several missed beats or overbaked sculpts in there, especially as there are some superb Halfling lines available already or fresh from KS. The longhorn is a miss for me as well (too human of a face), though I do like the tribal warrior quite a bit.
EDIT: I feel like I should comment on the game itself? Seems fine, and flipping the script to play villains is neat, in a market saturated with dungeon crawlers. While I own far too much Super Dungeon to need this, at least a couple of my clubmates are kicking LOI, and I do look forward to playing it, particularly with the KS adding more villains to choose from - the starting lineup is pretty great (except for the WTF rat ogre), I just like maximum variety in my coop games.
I like the concept of a coopeditive dungeon crawl game where you have to work together to beat the DM but have your own interests and trying to win. Reminds me of Cutthroat Caverns which is a similar concept card game and really fun.
There are so many great dungeon crawl games out there...I couldn't fathom paying Mantic for one. The original Dungeon Saga KS that I received was the most unimpressive, lazy effort I've ever seen from a major game company. Hugely underwhelming.
Good news for KoW players not interested in the League of Infamy box : Mantic gives the opportunity to buy different heroes in resin (Drakon Lord is in plastic) as add-ons.
They also confirmed they'll make profiles to play them in KoW in a next Clash of Kings, at least for those who already don't have one.
Elbows wrote: Have they shown anything in the flesh? I simply don't trust Mantic to reveal nice 3D models...and just "promise" an equivalent miniature showing up.
They actually did. Here are some pictures of miniatures painted by Giraldez :
Those would be HQ 3d prints, though. Not the horribly warped plastic that Dungeon Saga came with (which is one of the several reasons giving me a lot of pause in trusting them on a project like this).
James Hewitt is a very good designer, Mantic is an uneven/inconsistent producer with a history of backtracking on KS promises made and ...highly variable quality final products. Some really great stuff, and a lot of utter garbage not worth doing anything with than giving away to people with much lower standards for their minis.
Is it sure that someone can pledge only for the minis? It seems that the only option is to increase a pledge for the main game. Am I understanding something wrong?
Monkeysloth wrote: But those are all resins which the past while Mantic have really been knocking out of the park. The vangard stuff was great.
Be aware that the resins are just for the add-on packs made for KoW in the update showed above. They'll use that material because they won't take the sprues made for League of Infamy, because they will include different models not meant for the add-on package.
I'll admit openly that Mantic Games vastly improved their material's quality since the first Kickstarters. Their last resin is perfectly usable. Of course, since the League of Infamy stuff is intended to be delivered with assembled miniatures, you're never guaranted to be bend models free. But I'll aknowledge their improvement in comparison to the past, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.
corgan wrote: Is it sure that someone can pledge only for the minis? It seems that the only option is to increase a pledge for the main game. Am I understanding something wrong?
Yes, you can just pledge £1 and still access the pledge manager. They answered in the comments and also added a reply about this in the FAQ :
****
Its unclear on the front page (and my skimming revealed nothing) but I'm probably just not seeing it.
Is it possible to pledge at the £1 level just for add-ons or do you need at least the base game pledge first?
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Mantic GamesCréateur
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Hi **** - yes, you can do that. Just choose 'pledge with no reward' and then you'll get access to the pledge manager for add-ons.
corgan wrote: Is it sure that someone can pledge only for the minis? It seems that the only option is to increase a pledge for the main game. Am I understanding something wrong?
Yes, you can just pledge £1 and still access the pledge manager. They answered in the comments and also added a reply about this in the FAQ :
But yeah, the resins have really been pretty sharp. The board game pieces in Hellboy were quite nice (a bit more stylized than their usual fare), as were just about all the models released for Vanguard so far.
Look at some of the other Mantic videos I've posted if you're curious. I've got at least three or four more Mantic kits laying around and even a cursory glance of them looks pretty good.
Admittedly none of those kits were made with Kickstarter deadlines looming overhead though. Well maybe some of the Vanguard ones were...
Oh, it's your video...hehe nice! Great work with the reviews, mate, and yeah I've looked at many
of your videos especially cause I'm also a fan of Mierce miniatures.
Monkeysloth wrote: But those are all resins which the past while Mantic have really been knocking out of the park. The vangard stuff was great.
Be aware that the resins are just for the add-on packs made for KoW in the update showed above. They'll use that material because they won't take the sprues made for League of Infamy, because they will include different models not meant for the add-on package.
I'll admit openly that Mantic Games vastly improved their material's quality since the first Kickstarters. Their last resin is perfectly usable. Of course, since the League of Infamy stuff is intended to be delivered with assembled miniatures, you're never guaranted to be bend models free. But I'll aknowledge their improvement in comparison to the past, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.
Ya I know. I was under the impression that the current discussion was only about the KoW add-ons.
Elbows wrote: There are so many great dungeon crawl games out there...I couldn't fathom paying Mantic for one. The original Dungeon Saga KS that I received was the most unimpressive, lazy effort I've ever seen from a major game company. Hugely underwhelming.
I suspect that might be why Mantic and Jake Thornton haven't done any business since then
Elbows wrote: There are so many great dungeon crawl games out there...I couldn't fathom paying Mantic for one. The original Dungeon Saga KS that I received was the most unimpressive, lazy effort I've ever seen from a major game company. Hugely underwhelming.
I suspect that might be why Mantic and Jake Thornton haven't done any business since then
Maybe I recall the dates wrong, but Jake Thornton was involved with 2nd Edition of Deadzone which is younger than Dungeon Saga
Elbows wrote: There are so many great dungeon crawl games out there...I couldn't fathom paying Mantic for one. The original Dungeon Saga KS that I received was the most unimpressive, lazy effort I've ever seen from a major game company. Hugely underwhelming.
I suspect that might be why Mantic and Jake Thornton haven't done any business since then
Jake and Mantic fell out, but I think someone asked him about it on his blog and he said that wasn't it.
Elbows wrote: There are so many great dungeon crawl games out there...I couldn't fathom paying Mantic for one. The original Dungeon Saga KS that I received was the most unimpressive, lazy effort I've ever seen from a major game company. Hugely underwhelming.
I suspect that might be why Mantic and Jake Thornton haven't done any business since then
Jake and Mantic fell out, but I think someone asked him about it on his blog and he said that wasn't it.
Yeah, it's all fan conspiration theories, that neither Mantic nor Jake confirmed. The later just said he got into a dispute with Mantic Games at the time which is why he didn't work for them until it was resolved. That's all we know.
Meanwhile, the League of Infamy Kickstarter is a bit slowing down in pledges for now and last update revealed a stretch goal for rules for Dungeon Saga's villains to play them in the League. Which is always nice to recycle your Dungeon Saga miniatures.
Well, those are thick rats. Even thicker than old GW skavens.
At least, they are well fed with cheese.
Can't say I'm a big fan of these miniatures, but it's nice to finally see true Mantic vermin miniatures for KoW.
What troubles me the most with recent Mantic works for KoW is that the miniatures constantly seem too big for their bases. You can see the rank and file vermins here barely stick together because of their arms spilling on their companion's space. It's actually a problem for a wargame like KoW, when you have to put the miniatures base to base. I know that a lot of players use multibases anyway, but this tendancy really doesn't incite players to bother with putting the miniatures base to base.
kodos wrote: Not sure as I don't own any Veer-Myn, but it looks like that all those are the SciFi Models with Fantasy upgrades
not too bad, but not as good as the last dedicated releases either
Ah, now that I look at the Warpath Veer-myn line on their webshop, indeed they look very similar. It would explain why they are so ill-suited for a rank and file unit.
I'm still honestly shocked at how good they look for sci-fi models with arm swaps and a different paint job, though. Pretty impressive, given how they're crossing genres like that without dedicated models.
Sarouan wrote: What troubles me the most with recent Mantic works for KoW is that the miniatures constantly seem too big for their bases. You can see the rank and file vermins here barely stick together because of their arms spilling on their companion's space. It's actually a problem for a wargame like KoW, when you have to put the miniatures base to base. I know that a lot of players use multibases anyway, but this tendancy really doesn't incite players to bother with putting the miniatures base to base.
It's a fair point, and the new KOW starter set has a guide that actually talks about carefully arranging your models on their bases so they can rank up (something we had to do for WHFB but I only learned through trial and error). But frankly everybody should be multi-basing anyway, and the new Mantic models almost demand you do so, with the ranking / size issues. In which case they look great multi-based, as they take up more room than spindly single-based stuff. (EDIT: Also a multi-based army is a breeze to pack + unpack, scoot around the field, etc. I'm so happy I finally moved away from WHFB minis in trays and got a couple multi-based armies done, really just a great army scale gaming experience!)
those abyssal dwarves looking mighty sweet, i do have to say i am pretty impressed of how much mantic has come as far as models. At first they were just cheap filler models to be used. But now they have some pretty cool sculpts that can stand on their own.
About multi basing, it is probably one of the main things that is attracting me to the game to be honest. I was just waiting for a friend to also want to make a return to fantasy mass battle games which this new edition has sparked interest with 1-2 other people in my playgroup along with the "use your old models" thing.. Can't wait to play!
It’s Ronnie here. Boy, it’s been a tough weekend. Normally Saturday and Sunday are slow on campaigns, but we’ve never seen anything quite like yesterday. And it’s a real shame because we were starting to build some momentum coming into the weekend.
Thank you to everyone that’s stuck with the campaign through this tricky period and we’re determined to make sure you get lots of awesome stuff in your pledge. The good news is that the 48-hour reminder will be going out this evening and that normally brings in new backers and a boost with the funds.
It’s a huge shame that League of Infamy isn’t getting the love it deserves. This game has built on all we learnt from Dungeon Saga, Star Saga and Hellboy – then on top of that we added another cool layer of dirty dealing and mischievous antics to keep everyone around the table interested through the whole game. Sophie and James at Needy Cat have poured a lot into making a super fun, totally replayable experience that’s unlike any dungeon crawler we’ve ever played! Everyone that has played the game so far has had a total blast and the response from our Open Day was immense…please click here to have a look at some of fantastic games that were played in the run up to the campaign.
Of course, we’ve got late pledges to come and we’ll be opening the pledge manager after Christmas, so those of you at the £1 option will be able to jump on board with the Join the League or Master of Shadows pledges when funds are a bit more liquid!
But what are we going to do about the backwards progress – this is Mantic, and we don’t do backwards!!? Firstly, let’s just unlock that bloody Cavern Dweller! I’m sick of seeing its ugly face on the stretch goals – so we’ll add its ugly face to the pledge instead Everyone on the Master of Shadows pledge will be getting the Cavern Dweller for FREE and it includes a brand-new Kickstarter Exclusive scenario… taking the number of scenarios in the Master of Shadows pledge to a fantastic 25. Plus, we've also got the option of adding an extra Cavern Dweller to your pledge for just £10.
Secondly, we’re totally reworking the stretch goal plan. Alongside the daily goals, we were keeping a few of the gameplay cards in reserve ready for the final push. However, we’re going to bundle those together into £1k goals so we can celebrate every forward step! The cards are all really important and fun way to change up the game and add to the (already massive) amounts of replay value.
Thirdly, in anticipation of the final 48hr push we’re bringing forward another of the boss goals! The mighty Knucker will now be unlocked at £145k and added to the Master of Shadows and Optional Extras. We’re going to put the Knucker in the Optional Extras list now in anticipation of the unlock - so you can add that to your pledge! There’s still one more boss to come and we’ll be keeping an eye on funding over the next couple of days, so with a bit of support we can get that unlocked too.
Finally, we’ve got some more options for the resin villain packs. We know a lot of you have been asking for miniature-only pledges but with this being a board game all the models in the KS come assembled we are concerned that they won’t have the posing that Kings of War players want. However, it is something we have heard, and we will ponder how we can get these models into the KoW range – probably getting them unassembled with some resin options to allow you to make regiments, because there is no way we won’t find a way to get plastics this good into the range. However, the resin heroes/villains make a lot of sense in resin because, typically, you'll only need one of these in your Kings of War army or Vanguard warband.
I’m not going to lie and say this hasn’t been a difficult campaign. However, we really believe in League of Infamy and know 100% that it’s a truly fantastic game. Unfortunately it seems a lot of cash has been sucked out of Kickstarter over the past few weeks, and that has left this campaign drifting. Yet we’re determined to deliver a fantastic game that’s great fun to play, with fantastic miniatures. Please share the campaign and bring on a few more backers. Your help will push us through the final 48 hours and hopefully we can see that total grow again and get through to the £150k mark!
Thanks for reading and for the support,
Ronnie
Is it me or Ronnie just complained about the low amount of cash people pledged for this project ?
I think it's an admission that although they're handing over some stretches & making others cheaper they can't put out all the content they'd planned with the money they've got
(unlike previous mantic projects where a hard stall has led to the kitchen sink being thrown in)
I also suspect it means this game isn't going to get any love post KS, not when they've got the walking dead & hellboy as more successful ongoing products to keep expanding
I was curious how much Mantic expected to get from this KS, and so I did some research. Here's all of Mantic's backed Kickstarters, with number of pledges and totals (USD):
So yea, LOI is pretty anemic Appreciate Ronnie at least gesturing towards the kinda bad timing on this campaign, and also dealing with the fact that with KOW 3E just dropping, their AFAIK largest, growing market just wants new sculpts for KOW, not some rando game attached to them. Amongst my gaming club (13+ people), only 1-2 are backing this, but several of us are piling on to get models for our KOW armies. Personally I look forward to giving the game a shot, most likely afterhours at KOW tournaments ... but I don't want to own it. And with no $1 pledge I can't get to the stretch goals I would toss $$$ at, at least directly
Happy to see Cavern Dweller and Knucker and so on get prioritized - I know it's bait to get more KOWers to pledge, but it gets those units closer to the large scale tabletop.
Yeah, and as for my Dungeon Saga friends, they're not that interested as well because they would rather have a second edition of Dungeon Saga than playing the villains in a new board game. They could use some of the miniatures, sure, but since the opponents are the good guys and they are the ones in quantities, it's not that necessary to have since they actually need the other way around (lots of monsters/minions/villains, a handful of good guys). You don't need that many bosses, after all.
Boss Salvage wrote: And with no $1 pledge I can't get to the stretch goals I would toss $$$ at, at least directly
From the FAQ for the campaign
Yes! You can pledge any amount during the Kickstarter campaign and you will be sent the pledge manager. If you pledge £1, you’ll still receive the updates and information about the project too, so it’s a great opportunity to keep up to date with what’s happening in the campaign and what stretch goals we unlock.
You just need to select the "Make a pledge without a reward" option and the amount you pledge will be available once the pledge manager opens.
Yeah, only 15 of the "40 elf enemies" are actually even elves, most of them are cats and awfully sculpted fat baby dragons. And then the expansions are mostly other monsters. If I'm going to play bad guys ransacking and looting an elven temple then, there should be priests and novices and civilians to fight and capture and enslave in addition to the regular guards. First expansion should have been human kingdoms with different priests and novices and civilians to fight and capture and enslave. As it is, you're bad guy anti-heroes fighting elves-but-not-really-any-elves, random-encounter-chart monsters, fish people, and halflings. None of those make me want to drop $96 plus shipping, even if there weren't a half dozen other KS demanding my money
lord_blackfang wrote: It's just so lame. If I'm a high fantasy super bad guy, fighting baby versions of KoW warbeasts shouldn't be the height of my career aspirations.
It actually makes me think of the Overlord or Dungeon Keeper video game. That kind of "It's Good to be Bad", you know.
Meanwhile, we're in the last 24 hours and they revealed a new necromancer for the league.
Classical, sure, but skull fashion never gets old when you study necromancy !
I'm just not feeling it. I paid to much to be burned by Dungeon Saga, and while the minis are nice, they're not what I'm looking to add to my collection right now. I want hordes of baddies for dungeons, not grandma's porcelain baby dragons and a bunch of elves and halflings.
I'll wait for retail and see what people are saying about the rules. If it somehow retroactively turns Dungeon Saga into what I wanted (doubtful), then mayabe. Of course, every Mantic Kickstarter where I said, "I'll wait until retail and see..." ended up with me not buying anything.
Oh well, I spent enough on Zombicide and Frostgrave, anyways.
I waited until retail (plus a year or two) for DB X-treme and Season 2, and found them for much cheaper than their KS prices. I’ll take my chances on this one.
The core boxes. Like, got the initial boxes for $20-$25.
Later I got some of the expansion teams from Black Friday sales for about $10-15. But I don’t really remember which items came from which campaigns, so I have no idea how the savings actually compares. For my budgeting purposes, I often prefer to spread out purchases rather than put down one large sum up front, even if it means I miss out on some stuff.
dyndraig wrote: I'm on the fence on this one, I like the concept but the campaign hasn't really inspired confidence...
Hmmm, I know I'm not the last to criticize Mantic Games quite agressively, but here I think this project is quite solid in more than one aspect. You can see they have already done a lot of work on the miniatures, the game system and future expansions all have a strong theme (not talking about the marketing/funny ads they made, since it doesn't bring anything to the game in itself). Sure, previous kickstarters made by Mantic Games didn't always turn out great, but I don't believe there is a good reason to think it will turn horrible here.
This is not Dungeon Saga or Star Saga, it's more alike to Hellboy - mainly because the team seems the be the same here.
As for the reasons the money raised wasn't that high in comparison to the others, well there are some IMHO. Timing with some other big Kickstarters at the time, sure, but I don't think that's the main one - I think the main reason is that Mantic Games fans are more looking for material to use for Kings of War and Dungeon Saga, given it is in the same universe...and that game sure brings a few things for that, but not that much. For Kings of War, it's mainly a few monsters and characters, but I don't think someone would bother to buy the game and gain 6 elven lancers and 6 elven archers for their elf army, especially if they all have the same pose. Same for the herd and their basic warriors, and I'm not even talking about the board game material (resin are another matter). For Dungeon Saga, this game brings way too many good guys and not enough bad guys to really use in their game - and there is a limit to the number of bosses or heroes you need.
Sure, it's a board game on its own, but how many different Dungeon Crawler games do you really need when you already have Dungeon Saga ? If it's just to play the villains, it's actually not that big a difference - especially when you can already do it in the said game you own. And yeah, the players can somewhat fight amongst themselves with the mechanism of League of Infamy...it may be fun for a while, but how long before it gets tiresome ? Play it coop or comp, but both don't work that well together.
On the other hand, reason the amount somewhat stalled and lowered a bit is, IMHO again, because a lot of backers switched to 1$ pledge since they confirmed you can still have access to the pledge manager later and see when the project is more advanced / have more funds when the financial pressure of last months in the year is gone. I'm sure Mantic Games will get more at that time, but it's obvious Ronnie would rather have all of the shiny money right at the end of the short campaign rather than waiting for their backers to finally open their wallet. If they did the campaign for gaining lots of money in a short amount of time, then yeah, it's kinda not that great of a success.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's just so lame. If I'm a high fantasy super bad guy, fighting baby versions of KoW warbeasts shouldn't be the height of my career aspirations.
On the other hand, sneaking in to kill the baby dragons before they become big, freakin' dragons is certainly prudent and makes a lot of sense. If I'm a high fantasy super bad guy, I wanna grind my foes into the ground - a big freakin' dragon might just put a damper on my efforts!
I also wasn't feelin' this one. I dropped out, despite having an elf and an undead army. I liked Hellboy enough, but not enough to get this one. Maybe I'll pick it up if I can find it for the cheap somewhere, but this just didn't spark my imagination...
Welcome to Weight of Fire, a podcast dedicated to wargaming and miniature painting with a heavy focus on Mantic games such as Kings of War, Deadzone and Warpath.
Ciao!! Andy and Paul are joined by Luigi Terzi, sculptor extraordinaire at Mantic Games, to discuss miniature design, concepts and all things around the miniature creation process!
Looks like he was in a rush, given the quality of the sound and that green screen behind the guy.
I can't speak for the sound, but on the facebook group post, Kyle explains that he ended up leaving the green screen because he just couldn't get the art to sit still behind Steve. It was flickering apparently.
Sarouan wrote: Looks like he was in a rush, given the quality of the sound and that green screen behind the guy.
I guess that's the guy who does the KOW community roundup videos? Never watched them, so I couldn't speak to their quality, but I assume they must use the green screen as a green screen Bit jarring when Kyle brings in new peeps, but I suppose it suits the quick turnaround on these two-a-week sneaks, plus one assumes the guests have more experience with their armies than Kyle does per se.
Varangur and Herd tomorrow! Varangur have a couple neat new things but are largely the same, if a smidge toned down (which checks out, as they were top tier in 2E), but I think Herd is going to make some people sad, especially if you relied on a certain super hammer (although the army is way more intriguing to me now than as a Beastmen getyouby list)
I don't know if I can resist that army set. I also don't know if I'll be able to resist carving down all those plastic beards to sculpt on Babylonian coil-braids.
LOVING all the new Abyssal dwarf stuff, I cannot WAIT!
The ratkin slaves look great too, although, they look a bit healthy and, ‘in shape’ for tortured servants. Hopefully they’ll release a set with only the newer Abyssal dwarf models, as I have plenty of the originals already.
The new Blacksouls/Decimators look great. Sadly, if I add them to my current AD army, they will outshine the Immortal Guard. Suppose the new ones can be Immortal Guard and the originals Blacksouls. I wonder how much the Charnox, Infernox, Hexcaster, and Hellfane will cost? Mind, I don't think those paint jobs survive close shots; across the table it blends but for advertising the sploches that make up the scheme are Ugly.
Those Abyssal Dwarves infantry sprues look nice, indeed. The giant golem-like is fine, an improvement from the golem infantry for sure but not stunning as well. Not sure about the character-like half lava half tech. The engine on big four legged lava/rock thing, I'm not fond of, I'll be honest.
The "not-skaven" slaves are really nice, now that's what I would love to see as a true Mantic vermin army !
The Northern Alliance dwarves sure fit better in their lore/design, but I don't know, I find them weird on that picture. Maybe it's because of the pelted shoulders of two of them, that makes them look a bit too "heavy" ?
Last but not least, their renders of the goblins look quite promising, but I'll wait for the actual sprues before making a victory dance.
But I'll admit, this is really a good step in the right direction for 2020 here !
Have not looked at KOW in an age, but those new Abyssal Dwarf sprues are very tempting. I had a sizeable Abyssal KOW army back in the day and as others have said these are an improvement on the old hybrid miniatures, and I was not that sour on those either.
I just wish the range was a bit more consistent in terms of sculpting and material. The Greater Obsidian Golem looks like a comedy miniature , the Ironcaster looks like he is from a different race altogether and the Halfb***** (sorry, just not a fan of that word at all) have ridiculously sized weapons and odd posing. The pricing on the artillery pieces seems overly optimistic as well.
Those Abyssal Dwarfs look pretty nice. I don't need another KOW-size army, but I'd be happy to put these alongside my Oldhammer Chaos Dwarfs in a Vanguard warband.
They did mention the plastic sprues would be in the new Vanguard AD box so that'll be nice.
I wonder if we'll see similar with the goblins as well then? Only reason I never got the goblin starter was because I'd experienced those old plastics enough.
If they go back and update it though... maybe Twilight Kin or future armies might see Vanguard as a springboard to getting updated plastic sprues as well?
lord_blackfang wrote: Not gonna lie, would have preferred the classic Babylonean Centaurs to random body horror guys.
Same here!
I can see why (maybe) Mantic wants to 'make them their own', but really, the main appeal of Evil Dwarves is something closer to the past version vs. this stuff.
It looks like a flaming turd wrapped in nice metal plates.
Yeah, I think that's the core concept behind.
The abyssal golems are the same - basically just a pile of lava rocks put together with a vague humanoid look.
Otherwise, the dwarves are nice. IMHO, they still don't look very good when put strictly in regiments like they should be (10 for troops, and so on) and while you can see they designed the miniatures so that it's possible to do it with very specific poses, it's still a bit awkward.
Funny, but when I saw the painted miniatures, I thought they would look great on round bases.
kodos wrote: I think they will look very nice in Regiments if you take advantage of the preferred model count rule and use leave a little more space between them
Hot Take: KOW units just look better and far less congested at PMC, especially if you're using newer Mantic minis like the Northern Alliance super burly humans.
Cool to see the new AD painted! Helfane has some cool rules, hope to see that thing plodding around the tabletop soon. Grot sculpts I think are still misses, or at least the three-legged one(s) are, but I hate them less the more I see them, especially with (very good) paint on them. I applaud Mantic for not just making dragon ogres (everybody's GW counts as) or mega bulltaurs (everbody else's FW counts as).
Boss Salvage wrote: Hot Take: KOW units just look better and far less congested at PMC, especially if you're using newer Mantic minis like the Northern Alliance super burly humans.
Cool to see the new AD painted! Helfane has some cool rules, hope to see that thing plodding around the tabletop soon. Grot sculpts I think are still misses, or at least the three-legged one(s) are, but I hate them less the more I see them, especially with (very good) paint on them. I applaud Mantic for not just making dragon ogres (everybody's GW counts as) or mega bulltaurs (everbody else's FW counts as).
I agree with your hot take.
As far as I know, new goblins are coming soon.
Man, what I wouldn't have given for Kevin Adams to be the designer in charge of the Goblins. Throwing them back to the late 80's/early 90's design style would have been absolutely awesome.
lord_blackfang wrote: Not gonna lie, would have preferred the classic Babylonean Centaurs to random body horror guys.
Same here!
I can see why (maybe) Mantic wants to 'make them their own', but really, the main appeal of Evil Dwarves is something closer to the past version vs. this stuff.
Until Monday, spend just £10/€15/$20 on the Mantic Games website and get FREE SHIPPING*! Perfect to pick up a few bits for your army or a gaming supplement!
Head to www.manticgames.com to place your order. You've got until 9am on Monday!
Until Monday, spend just £10/€15/$20 on the Mantic Games website and get FREE SHIPPING*! Perfect to pick up a few bits for your army or a gaming supplement!
Head to www.manticgames.com to place your order. You've got until 9am on Monday!
Nice offer. Might have to get some vermin to see what their like in the flesh.
Until Monday, spend just £10/€15/$20 on the Mantic Games website and get FREE SHIPPING*! Perfect to pick up a few bits for your army or a gaming supplement!
Head to www.manticgames.com to place your order. You've got until 9am on Monday!
Does Mantic allow us in the United States to order in GBP still or have they blocked that option?
Until Monday, spend just £10/€15/$20 on the Mantic Games website and get FREE SHIPPING*! Perfect to pick up a few bits for your army or a gaming supplement!
Head to www.manticgames.com to place your order. You've got until 9am on Monday!
Does Mantic allow us in the United States to order in GBP still or have they blocked that option?
That will likely be the * - you can select any currency but you only get free shipping if you pay the correct currency and the shipping is expensive if you pay in a different currency to the point it negates any currency convesrion savings.
you must live in the UK to take advantage of our UK Free Shipping Rate, Europe to use the Euro Free Shipping Rate and the US or the Rest of the World to use the Dollar Free Shipping Rate.
Until Monday, spend just £10/€15/$20 on the Mantic Games website and get FREE SHIPPING*! Perfect to pick up a few bits for your army or a gaming supplement!
Head to www.manticgames.com to place your order. You've got until 9am on Monday!
Does Mantic allow us in the United States to order in GBP still or have they blocked that option?
That will likely be the * - you can select any currency but you only get free shipping if you pay the correct currency and the shipping is expensive if you pay in a different currency to the point it negates any currency convesrion savings.
you must live in the UK to take advantage of our UK Free Shipping Rate, Europe to use the Euro Free Shipping Rate and the US or the Rest of the World to use the Dollar Free Shipping Rate.
So paying a 1.5x conversion rate for the U.S. on material when currently at 1.28x to get free delivery isn’t as good as it seems.
So a £19.99 unit with free delivery which should cost $25.72 with current exchange rate and still get free delivery costs $29.99 with free delivery. I still don’t understand Mantic .
So paying a 1.5x conversion rate for the U.S. on material when currently at 1.28x to get free delivery isn’t as good as it seems.
So a £19.99 unit with free delivery which should cost $25.72 with current exchange rate and still get free delivery costs $29.99 with free delivery. I still don’t understand Mantic .
This has nothing to do with Mantic but as something usual with UK based companies as they include the higher shipping in the conversion rate
The other option in the UK is that you pay X% of your order for shipping, and never gain free shipping at all, which means the more you order the more you pay (but therefore they let you pay in pound for cheaper conversion rate)
You get the same if you order from GW or Forgeworld
But if conversion rates are bad, you can always order from Amazon who use the current rates (but be careful, some sellers charge 1.5-2 times the MSRP from Mantic and you can end up worse)
So paying a 1.5x conversion rate for the U.S. on material when currently at 1.28x to get free delivery isn’t as good as it seems.
So a £19.99 unit with free delivery which should cost $25.72 with current exchange rate and still get free delivery costs $29.99 with free delivery. I still don’t understand Mantic .
This has nothing to do with Mantic but as something usual with UK based companies as they include the higher shipping in the conversion rate
The other option in the UK is that you pay X% of your order for shipping, and never gain free shipping at all, which means the more you order the more you pay (but therefore they let you pay in pound for cheaper conversion rate)
You get the same if you order from GW or Forgeworld
The other thing to remember here is that foreign orders should be 20% cheaper, as they don't charge/pass along the VAT to the Gov't, so they're already pocketing 20% more these orders and shouldn't need to jack the exchange rate to help cover shipping.
Ashitaka wrote: [The other thing to remember here is that foreign orders should be 20% cheaper, as they don't charge/pass along the VAT to the Gov't, so they're already pocketing 20% more these orders and shouldn't need to jack the exchange rate to help cover shipping.
They're actually only pocketing 16.7%, not 20%
If an item costs £1 pre-VAT, you add 20% VAT to get a selling price of £1.20. The tax element is 20p, that's 16.7% of the selling price of £1.20.
Alpharius wrote: Whatever it ends up being, it shouldn't be getting charged to orders shipping out of the country, should it?
actually it should, and if it is shipped into a country without VAT it is taxed twice (VAT+sales Tax) not including import tax.
The same if I order something from the USA, I pay sales tax, an import fee and VAT
which is the main reason why the smaller companies try to have local stores/shops/distributor so they can import without paying the taxes and sell at local conditions
also a reason why Brexit is bad for Mantic but good for GW.
as GW wants you to buy from the local distributor only so they can adjust the prices to local conditions without taking care about conversion rates etc. but this is against EU law so if they mess up people are going to order directly from the UK or other countries were the product is cheaper.
while Mantic does not have a big European distributor (yet) and worst case will be that we have to pay double taxes too
Alpharius wrote: Whatever it ends up being, it shouldn't be getting charged to orders shipping out of the country, should it?
actually it should, and if it is shipped into a country without VAT it is taxed twice (VAT+sales Tax) not including import tax.
The same if I order something from the USA, I pay sales tax, an import fee and VAT
which is the main reason why the smaller companies try to have local stores/shops/distributor so they can import without paying the taxes and sell at local conditions
also a reason why Brexit is bad for Mantic but good for GW.
as GW wants you to buy from the local distributor only so they can adjust the prices to local conditions without taking care about conversion rates etc. but this is against EU law so if they mess up people are going to order directly from the UK or other countries were the product is cheaper.
while Mantic does not have a big European distributor (yet) and worst case will be that we have to pay double taxes too
I’ve ordered plenty from companies based in England and never paid an import fee, that’s based on the receiving country. I always used to spend large on warlord games sales in £ and get free shipping, the sale price and excellent exchange rate with my bank card. The VAT was even removed because I was an out of country shipment.
It’s all the company’s decision to accept payment in whichever form and not a law, unless that has recently changed.
import tax is difficult
I have ordered stuff from outside EU and never paid one, friend of mine ordered once models in the USA, he had to pay double the price on import tax
this is more related if the people controlling the import let it through or not and we are now just be careful to stay below the minimum value or order only from people who now how to deal with those things
and Warlord Games is complicated, I ordered once directly did not worked out well, since than I order via my FLGS and we get the benefits of the conversion rate etc.
back when Mantic was sold via the local store it was similar
Mantic is not doing the best job with their webshop and fees, but they are not bad and far from being the worst
<no image> Nightstalker Dreadfiend Box Set - Kings Of War 3rd Ed (x1 fig) $20 USD
Nightstalker Soulflayers Regiment Box Set - Kings Of War 3rd Ed (x3 figs) $45 USD
Ogre Warband Box Set - Kings of War Vanguard (x8 figs) w/ new Paymaster $45 USD
Ogre Warband Booster Box Set - Kings of War Vanguard (x5 figs) w/ new Berserker Bully, Boomer Sergeant, Crocodogs $45 USD
Ogre Matriarch Box Set - Kings of War Vanguard (x1 fig) $18 USD
<no image> Ogre Siegebreaker Box Set - Kings of War Vanguard (x1 fig) $18 USD
Ogre Crocodogs Box Set - Kings of War Vanguard (x3 figs) $13 USD
<no image> Ogre Warriors Regiment Box Set - Kings of War Vanguard (x3 figs) $30 USD - these come with metal components, which rumor has it may be the old command bits
<no image> Ogre Siege Breakers Regiment Box Set - Kings of War Vanguard (x3 figs) $30 USD
Alpharius wrote: Whatever it ends up being, it shouldn't be getting charged to orders shipping out of the country, should it?
actually it should, and if it is shipped into a country without VAT it is taxed twice (VAT+sales Tax) not including import tax.
The same if I order something from the USA, I pay sales tax, an import fee and VAT
which is the main reason why the smaller companies try to have local stores/shops/distributor so they can import without paying the taxes and sell at local conditions
also a reason why Brexit is bad for Mantic but good for GW.
as GW wants you to buy from the local distributor only so they can adjust the prices to local conditions without taking care about conversion rates etc. but this is against EU law so if they mess up people are going to order directly from the UK or other countries were the product is cheaper.
while Mantic does not have a big European distributor (yet) and worst case will be that we have to pay double taxes too
I’ve ordered plenty from companies based in England and never paid an import fee, that’s based on the receiving country.
Yep, The States don't have an import tax for consumers so we can order from anywhere without worry.
I'm digging those ogres. Don't know how I missed them yet.
I always liked Mantic's ogres with their reddish hued skin. Remy's original sculpt work was really nice, and most of the detail carried over to the restic guys.
With the arrival of the abyssal dwarf plastic sprue I certainly wouldn't mind actual plastics but I don't see that happening soon.
Kings of War just keeps getting better, and I am so happy that it keeps entrenching itself as a staple game in our hobby. There's just something about it, and how it helps me see other model lines and get inspired to port them over to KoW armies.
That said, I feel like its time I consider building an all Mantic model army. They've improved so much from modest beginnings and stuff like the Northern Alliance really appeals to me... and not just because of my brief history with Mantic (which I am still super proud of).
I love seeing Mantic continue to grow and succeed. The new goblins look great, and I can't wait to see what is in the future for Mantic. The KoW third edition box has been tempting me for a long time
GT Studio does make nice ones but I found them kinda fiddly, but I am curious to see the new ones in the flesh. Hopefully they all scale nicely together.
Considering how nice the Aybssals turned out, I have high hopes for these. Those plastic Abyssals are really solid!
Those are great! What a funny twist where Mantic is producing better classic WHF stuff than GW, who abandoned that line and world in favor of the more fantastic Warcraft style hyper fantasy.
Ratkin vs Goblins of this quality would be a great box set.
What the hell is Mantic trying to do to me? First, some excellent Chaos Dwarf stuff...then some really nice chaff for the Chaos Dwarves in the form of Goblins that actually look good...and now Skaven?
If you haven't gotten a copy of 3rd ed Uncharted Empires, you might like to know that there is a Ratkin Slave theme list which uses the Abyssal Dwarfs as the Master list. So instead of Slave Orcs, you have Ratkin Slaves and the "not-Rat Ogres".
Sacredroach wrote: What the hell is Mantic trying to do to me? First, some excellent Chaos Dwarf stuff...then some really nice chaff for the Chaos Dwarves in the form of Goblins that actually look good...and now Skaven?
New gobbos look decent. So chunky, they could be Tolkieney orcs.
The rats look like stunty werewolves with buck teeth, but that's what was established with the old-style GW skaven, so horses for courses.
Though, looking at those things poking out of the back of the warlock's neck and it's skull-staff... are they meant to be horns, or some kind of rat-tails?
More Ogre previews have dropped as well (couple repeated here for completeness / bigger photos):
Matriarch
Berserker Bully
Paymaster
Siegebreakers
Am I wrong thinking the siege shields seem a bit out of sorts with the Ogre line? Are they supposed to be Abyssal Dwarf-related, maybe? Or is there more of this filigree in the Mantic Ogre line and I don't know about it?
Not feeling the heroes, TBH. They're a vast improvement over the old Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye ogres, but I'm getting an impression of someone making third-party figurines of GW-style orcs. (With a bit of Blizzard-style orc thrown in)
Also, dislike the ultra-mega-dynamic pose of the axe guy. "Oh soddit, I'm caught on me own shoelaces!"
... and they all have exactly the same face.
Gimme a couple of minutes, I'll think up half a dozen other complaints.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Loving those hero models, but loath the Siege-Breakers which mark the return of skipped-leg-day-Ogres. I though those days were behind us... :-(
My guess is that the siegebreakers are not entirely new models, but rather an upgrade kit like the Ogre command kit.
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