How do?

Still planning a trip over the pond, and it may well be later this year due to a pleasing change at work.

But, as the title says, I need to know more about tipping. Now I'm fully aware that it's the norm and indeed largely expected in the US, and I've no problem with that.

Except, I've no idea of the sort of amounts one should tip? After all, on a short break I'm likely to breakfast in the same place, and I don't want a poor tip on Day One to lead to people gobbing on me Bacons!

See, in the UK it's usually what, 12% of the bill, or 'keep the change mate' in less formal settings. That could range from £4 to a few pence, mostly to save the delivery person faffing around for change. I suspect though that won't cut it in the US!

Any pointers and comments gratefully received (and I'm happy to tip even relatively poor service. One never knows the story behind the scenes, and could just be an off day)

In the US there general rule is 15-20%. I'd pick a number in that range based on how pleased you are with your service, dipping under it only in the extreme cases of very bad service.

Usually you'll just add the amount to your bill, either in cash or as part of the receipt if paying with a card (there will be a blank space where you can write down an amount). If you pay with cash, you can say "keep the change" as a way of letting the server know that everything over the bill amount is their tip. Just don't forget the actual tip obviously XD

 LordofHats wrote:
In the US there general rule is 15-20%. I'd pick a number in that range based on how pleased you are with your service, dipping under it only in the extreme cases of very bad service.

Usually you'll just add the amount to your bill, either in cash or as part of the receipt if paying with a card (there will be a blank space where you can write down an amount). If you pay with cash, you can say "keep the change" as a way of letting the server know that everything over the bill amount is their tip. Just don't forget the actual tip obviously XD

I normally suggest tipping at 20% if at all possible. Servers in the U.S. make about two dollars an hour in most cases, so this is their livelihood. I would only suggest below that if the service is really really bad.

$1 per Drink is normal at bars. Most beers are $5-9 + tip at most bars or clubs. You pay the drink tip with your food tip at the end if you're eating food at a bar since you use your debit card. If you have cash just toss $1 down every drink.

Valets, Bartenders, and Waiters are your primary target for tipping. They make anywhere from $2 to $6 / hour plus tip. Tipping tends to bring them up to $15/hr or more depending on the place.

15-20% for most restaurants. At a non-fast food sit down dinner at a sports bar: Burger, two beers, extra fries = $27.00 + tip $5.40 = 32.40 - Your waiter now puts that $5.40 into the restaurants "pool of tips" if you've used your credit card. You can also tip direct cash given to the waitress if you really liked her service - but depending on where they work they also tip jar it with the other staff.

As a waiter all thru college, I tip closer to 20%, but what really annoys me are tip jars in places like coffee or donut shops or tip lines on credit card slips. If you are bringing me my food and refilling my drink, I am going to treat you as well as you treat me. I am not going to tip you for ringing me up at a register. I hate it.

What is next? Tipping the cashier at Walmart?

I always tip about 20% because, frankly, it's easier math. I also have a floor on tips - no matter how much the coffee or meal or what have you was, I'd never tip less than $4 if it's a tipping situation.

I'm not really sure what the rule on tipping in bars is; I don't go out drinking very often. $1 per drink seems about right.

Having once worked in that industry, I approve of Ouze's method.

Anyway, it isn't hard - if they were good and kind, tip generously.

The push towards 20% tip is only recent. For most of my life it was 10-15%. I've tipped anywhere from 0.05% (where were you all night?) to 30% (you're amazing at this!) based on service, but average around 15%. If the server is polite, gets the order right and checks up on you occasionally, 15%. If they go above and beyond or are genuinely entertaining, go higher.

I don't know how prevalent it is, but I also tip taxi drivers. It's another crappy underpaid job where service really makes a difference.

 John Prins wrote:
The push towards 20% tip is only recent. For most of my life it was 10-15%. I've tipped anywhere from 0.05% (where were you all night?) to 30% (you're amazing at this!) based on service, but average around 15%. If the server is polite, gets the order right and checks up on you occasionally, 15%. If they go above and beyond or are genuinely entertaining, go higher.

I don't know how prevalent it is, but I also tip taxi drivers. It's another crappy underpaid job where service really makes a difference.

It is not recent at all. 15-20%, with 20% being normal has been that way since I was a kid at the very least. Perhaps there is a difference in Canada, but I have been tipping around 20% the last 15 or so years, as well as most people I know.

When it comes to restaurants, I do 20% standard, easy math.. $2 for every $10. I'll go down to 15% if the service was crappy, but I never stiff people. I don't drink booze, so I can't comment on how to tip on that stuff. When it comes to pizza delivery, I usually do 10% or 15% if it was real fast. I never tip for take out though, even if there's a tip jar, because I had to go and get it myself

 Sasori wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
The push towards 20% tip is only recent. For most of my life it was 10-15%. I've tipped anywhere from 0.05% (where were you all night?) to 30% (you're amazing at this!) based on service, but average around 15%. If the server is polite, gets the order right and checks up on you occasionally, 15%. If they go above and beyond or are genuinely entertaining, go higher.

I don't know how prevalent it is, but I also tip taxi drivers. It's another crappy underpaid job where service really makes a difference.

It is not recent at all. 15-20%, with 20% being normal has been that way since I was a kid at the very least. Perhaps there is a difference in Canada, but I have been tipping around 20% the last 15 or so years, as well as most people I know.

15% is probably more common in Canada because the math is easy, what with combined provincial and federal taxes approaching 15%. Take the taxes, round up a bit, done. That said, That said, I notice that it's people who have worked server jobs that tend to say 20%, so I suspect a bias.

20% is my go to number. Easy math and a decent bit for low paid service employees. If they do particularly well, I go up. If they are particularly bad, I go down. Has to be actively rude/ negligent to get below 10%, though. If it is that bad, I usually get a manager.Likewise, if someone is particularly good, I let the manager know.

Some places will automatically include tips in tickets for large parties. Remember that you do not have to authorize that on your card and can scratch it out, but wouldn't recommend that unless service was very poor. Usually they only add 12-18% and big groups are much more of a hassle for servers.

 John Prins wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
The push towards 20% tip is only recent. For most of my life it was 10-15%. I've tipped anywhere from 0.05% (where were you all night?) to 30% (you're amazing at this!) based on service, but average around 15%. If the server is polite, gets the order right and checks up on you occasionally, 15%. If they go above and beyond or are genuinely entertaining, go higher.

I don't know how prevalent it is, but I also tip taxi drivers. It's another crappy underpaid job where service really makes a difference.

It is not recent at all. 15-20%, with 20% being normal has been that way since I was a kid at the very least. Perhaps there is a difference in Canada, but I have been tipping around 20% the last 15 or so years, as well as most people I know.

15% is probably more common in Canada because the math is easy, what with combined provincial and federal taxes approaching 15%. Take the taxes, round up a bit, done. That said, That said, I notice that it's people who have worked server jobs that tend to say 20%, so I suspect a bias.

I have never worked a server role either. It just has been something that at least where I grew up, you were expected to tip 20%. Same for my peer group. I understand this is anecdotal however.

 John Prins wrote:
I don't know how prevalent it is, but I also tip taxi drivers. It's another crappy underpaid job where service really makes a difference.

In the US, the expectation is that taxi drivers are tipped.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How do?

Still planning a trip over the pond, and it may well be later this year due to a pleasing change at work.

But, as the title says, I need to know more about tipping. Now I'm fully aware that it's the norm and indeed largely expected in the US, and I've no problem with that.

Except, I've no idea of the sort of amounts one should tip? After all, on a short break I'm likely to breakfast in the same place, and I don't want a poor tip on Day One to lead to people gobbing on me Bacons!

See, in the UK it's usually what, 12% of the bill, or 'keep the change mate' in less formal settings. That could range from £4 to a few pence, mostly to save the delivery person faffing around for change. I suspect though that won't cut it in the US!

Any pointers and comments gratefully received (and I'm happy to tip even relatively poor service. One never knows the story behind the scenes, and could just be an off day)

For a sit down restaurant, twenty percent is standard for good service, with more for great service. If your tip will be less than five dollars, though, then tip five dollars. If you are ordering at a register, like in a cafe or short order restaurant, then one or two dollars in the jar should suffice. At a bar or club, tip nearly the same price as the drink itself, at least the first couple of times.

It also depends on where you are heading. Tipping culture is different in NY than in LA.

Also, treat the staff with respect, too. Someone who tips well but whistles to beckon the staff like dogs is likely to send up on a gob list.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Also, treat the staff with respect, too. Someone who tips well but whistles to beckon the staff like dogs is likely to send up on a gob list.

Or get a weak mixed drink. Or even slower service.

Waitresses love to be called sugar t**s.

Trust me.

Took the family to Florida for two weeks back in August and like others have said it’s expected to be between 15 and 20%.
I had one bad service that really didn’t deserve a tip so I didn’t tip. Actually told the waitress that I wasn’t happy with it and went on our way after paying the bill. Minus tip.

In California, rule of thumb is you double the tax on your bill. That usually comes out to 16-18% depending on what County you're in.

Some places (fancier usually) are starting to auto-include gratuities.

You don't need to tip fast food workers.

ALWAYS tip the pizza delivery driver, even if it's just the spare change in your pocket. They've been known to keep notes on "non-tippers" and provide "Extra Sneeze" at no additional charge.

 xKillGorex wrote:
Took the family to Florida for two weeks back in August and like others have said it’s expected to be between 15 and 20%.
I had one bad service that really didn’t deserve a tip so I didn’t tip. Actually told the waitress that I wasn’t happy with it and went on our way after paying the bill. Minus tip.

It's usually better to call over the manager and tell him or her exactly why you were unhappy with the service.

Been a waiter myself many years ago. As a customer and on the other side of the fence I think a tip is due only when a good service is given.
People shouldn’t expect anything as a given.

I always find tipping such an alien concept. It's basically not a thing in Sweden (it happens, but I have only done it in truly extraordinary cases). It always makes me a bit uncomfortable when tips are treated as a second invisible bill.

 xKillGorex wrote:
Been a waiter myself many years ago. As a customer and on the other side of the fence I think a tip is due only when a good service is given.
People shouldn’t expect anything as a given.

This. I only give a tip when someone's earned it, and when they've earned it, it's usually a tenner and a big thank you on my way out. Expecting a tip without any effort put in is not something I'll be part of.

I'm also going to America for Adepticon; if anyone there asks for a tip without earning it, I'll tell them where they can stick it.

Something to remember for non-tippers coming to America: service problems are not always the server's fault.

The kitchen / bartender can screw up an order, a manager could demand some important stock be refilled, they can 86 (or run out of) an item, the people at another table could just be very demanding, etc.

Waiters and Waitresses get paid very little and depend on tips for their livelihood. While it's great to expect great service, it's better to forgive the problems that happen in the life of a restaurant.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I always find tipping such an alien concept. It's basically not a thing in Sweden (it happens, but I have only done it in truly extraordinary cases). It always makes me a bit uncomfortable when tips are treated as a second invisible bill.

[checks thread title - yup, USA based!]

So, is making $2 to $4 an hour as a waiter/waitress a thing in Sweden too?

Because that's what a lot of people in these types of jobs get, based on the assumption (!) that they'll be getting tips...

It was $2.13 when I waited tables. But I averaged around $20 an hour in tips during the week, closer to 40 on weekend nights. This was back in the 90s.

I typically forgot to pick up my paychecks.

I really recommend everyone give waiting tables a shot while in college. You learn a lot about people, team work, and so on. I met a lot of women that way too. I grew to hate it, as the stress, work, and hours in a fast paced environment took its toll on my body, as well as all the hard partying after work (few party harder than waiters and waitresses after hours), and it is primarily the thing that motivated me to finish college.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I always find tipping such an alien concept. It's basically not a thing in Sweden (it happens, but I have only done it in truly extraordinary cases). It always makes me a bit uncomfortable when tips are treated as a second invisible bill.

[checks thread title - yup, USA based!]

So, is making $2 to $4 an hour as a waiter/waitress a thing in Sweden too?

Because that's what a lot of people in these types of jobs get, based on the assumption (!) that they'll be getting tips...

In europe the gratuity is auto included. Servers always hated waiting on europeans cause we usually never got tipped. They assumed it was included. I spent years waiting tables.

I always go with 20% unless the service was really bad.

ender502

 LordofHats wrote:
In the US there general rule is 15-20%. I'd pick a number in that range based on how pleased you are with your service, dipping under it only in the extreme cases of very bad service.

Usually you'll just add the amount to your bill, either in cash or as part of the receipt if paying with a card (there will be a blank space where you can write down an amount). If you pay with cash, you can say "keep the change" as a way of letting the server know that everything over the bill amount is their tip. Just don't forget the actual tip obviously XD

Entirely agree with this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I always find tipping such an alien concept. It's basically not a thing in Sweden (it happens, but I have only done it in truly extraordinary cases). It always makes me a bit uncomfortable when tips are treated as a second invisible bill.

This dips into another issue entirely involving wages in the US and so on.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I always find tipping such an alien concept. It's basically not a thing in Sweden (it happens, but I have only done it in truly extraordinary cases). It always makes me a bit uncomfortable when tips are treated as a second invisible bill.

Out of curiosity - two questions for a Swede:

1) What are waiters paid. In the US they get paid equivalent of 2-3 Euros an hour. After taxes, a 40 hour work week at a restaurant ran me about $60 usd / week and around 300-400 cash in tips. Are waiters getting the equivalent of 10+ Euros an hour over there? That seems to be a much better way of doing things. My figures are also from 2011~

2) What if your service is terrible.... is the bill waived due to the waiter's error? Or how do you resolve that?

 techsoldaten wrote:
Something to remember for non-tippers coming to America: service problems are not always the server's fault.

The kitchen / bartender can screw up an order, a manager could demand some important stock be refilled, they can 86 (or run out of) an item, the people at another table could just be very demanding, etc.

Waiters and Waitresses get paid very little and depend on tips for their livelihood. While it's great to expect great service, it's better to forgive the problems that happen in the life of a restaurant.

None of those things should compromise service; taking out problems behind the lines on customers is never smart, as waiters and waitresses are the front line of the business. That doesn't have to be as extreme as getting snarky as I've seen some servers do, but losing your ability to host well because of it usually transmits to the customers. I've worked as a waiter myself, and in the back of a restaurant too, and I have even eaten in said restaurant after no longer working there, so I've seen all the aspects to hospitality in restaurants. Being charismatic and helpful to customers, as well as apologetic when things go wrong and being aware of table etiquette (i.e. not leaning over people to collect plates) merits good service, and a good tip. Sometimes even making up for a poor experience can merit a tip, but I certainly won't tip for a poor experience and service; the problems behind the line are not my problem as a paying customer. It sounds snobbish, but pity paying working people who don't earn it is not my style, unless the circumstances are exceptional.

But I suppose here in the UK, we're not paid a slave's wage for waiting tables (minimum wage in the UK is something like £5.60 an hour for 18+ workers, and £7 + over 21, and that number is climbing), and most customers are willing to tip if you give them a good night.

I went to Greece many moons ago, I remember the first restaurant we stopped at we tipped 20% and when we were about to leave they suddenly brought us out free deserts and fancy sweet after diner wine. Apparently at the time 5% was a lot.

 Necros wrote:
I went to Greece many moons ago, I remember the first restaurant we stopped at we tipped 20% and when we were about to leave they suddenly brought us out free deserts and fancy sweet after diner wine. Apparently at the time 5% was a lot.

Thats awesome.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 xKillGorex wrote:
Been a waiter myself many years ago. As a customer and on the other side of the fence I think a tip is due only when a good service is given.
People shouldn’t expect anything as a given.

I'm also going to America for Adepticon; if anyone there asks for a tip without earning it, I'll tell them where they can stick it.

Good luck being a tough guy in Chicago, buddy. Also, people aren't likely to ask for a tip. At Adepticon you'll have tip jars at the food and drink vendor booths, and of course if you dine at the hotel or go outside and dine at a restaurant you'll have the option to tip on your bill via credit card or cash, but it isn't like servers are hitting people up for spare change like the homeless.

Also, what about being a good visitor and following a country's customs? Something to consider.

But sure, bring that chip on your shoulder and I am sure you will get GREAT service.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
In the US there general rule is 15-20%. I'd pick a number in that range based on how pleased you are with your service, dipping under it only in the extreme cases of very bad service.

Usually you'll just add the amount to your bill, either in cash or as part of the receipt if paying with a card (there will be a blank space where you can write down an amount). If you pay with cash, you can say "keep the change" as a way of letting the server know that everything over the bill amount is their tip. Just don't forget the actual tip obviously XD

Entirely agree with this.

Thirded; also be aware that if you pay with your card for the tip it gets auto-reported to the company and in some places they take a 'cut' of it themselves.

If you have a really great server who you felt did a great job and made your experience memorable? Tip them with cash instead of card.

 Kanluwen wrote:


If you have a really great server who you felt did a great job and made your experience memorable? Tip them with cash instead of card.

This advice can be extended to any small business. Debit and credit card companies usually charge a small fee to independent businesses for the "convenience" of using their service. This cuts into the already slim profit margin the owner is making on your sandwich.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Good luck being a tough guy in Chicago, buddy.

Thanks for the sarcasm mixed with "you're gonna get f**ed up mate" that misses the point entirely.

Also, people aren't likely to ask for a tip. At Adepticon you'll have tip jars at the food and drink vendor booths, and of course if you dine at the hotel or go outside and dine at a restaurant you'll have the option to tip on your bill via credit card or cash, but it isn't like servers are hitting people up for spare change like the homeless.

Note how I said "if" someone asks rather than "when" someone asks for a tip. I'm not making a generalisation that people will ask for one (you shouldn't ever ask for a tip unless you've judged your customer well, and are cocksure enough to ask upfront to charm them into giving you one, regardless of who/where you are), nor am I closing my wallet to anyone there who does give me good service. Again, missing the point that I was making about getting tips without earning it.

Also, what about being a good visitor and following a country's customs? Something to consider.

If a country had a custom where you had to pay a pound/dollar to everyone you said hello to on the street, would you abide by that custom?

I have no intention of being a poor visitor, but local customs should only be respected if they're within reason. Having a "second invisible bill" as Ashiraya put it earlier, without earning it, is not a reasonable custom to have.

But sure, bring that chip on your shoulder and I am sure you will get GREAT service.

You're assuming that I'm just going to be an arsehole to people who have dealings with me there as opposed to responding to something that would be considered to be very rude where I come from. But yes, I'm sure I'll have great service if anyone there has the same kind of attitude as yourself*


* yes I'm aware of the irony of countering sarcasm with sarcasm

 xKillGorex wrote:
Been a waiter myself many years ago. As a customer and on the other side of the fence I think a tip is due only when a good service is given.
People shouldn’t expect anything as a given.

I think you are overlooking the context of the thread; in the UK servers are paid reasonable money, i.e. at least minimum wage. In the states, where OP is headed to, they can be paid significantly less than that and are expected to make up their wage with tips.

I agree in the UK, tip when it is deserved; a bonus for excellent service. In the US it is a different situation, you aren't providing the bonus with a tip, you are filling the basic wage.


Is that right amerikkas?

General Annoyance, no, I understood your points and was making a joke at your "internet tough guy" stance on someone who asks for a tip. Quit your bs and you won't get called out.

And stop with the strawman that Americans tip servers who "don't earn it." Servers generally kiss your ass and bend over backwards here in America and that is because they are gunning for a tip. So again, it isn't like servers are walking around with their hands out asking something for nothing.

Now, on to your other nonsense:

 General Annoyance wrote:
[If a country had a custom where you had to pay a pound/dollar to everyone you said hello to on the street, would you abide by that custom?

I have no intention of being a poor visitor, but local customs should only be respected if they're within reason. Having a "second invisible bill" as Ashiraya put it earlier, without earning it, is not a reasonable custom to have.

Bad analogy. A generally accepted tipping policy for servers and waitstaff is not the same as needing to pay everyone who greets you. And it sounds like you do have an intention of being a poor visitor because you are overtly hostile to a tradition that you find unreasonable but the majority of your host country finds acceptable, reasonable, and earned. That says to me you probably won't tip. But whatever, enjoy your trip to Chicago!

I look at some tipping as a grab, though. Sure, I will tip when I have been served, but when I order food to go and go to the counter to pick it up and pay, the tip I may usually contribute a buck or so or even nothing to places i go all the time, since I tip the staff well when I go in to sit down. The counter people at some places with the tip jars, those can be up to you if you want to throw in your change or if the person really deserves it - afterall, that jar is going to be split among everyone.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 xKillGorex wrote:
Been a waiter myself many years ago. As a customer and on the other side of the fence I think a tip is due only when a good service is given.
People shouldn’t expect anything as a given.

This. I only give a tip when someone's earned it, and when they've earned it, it's usually a tenner and a big thank you on my way out. Expecting a tip without any effort put in is not something I'll be part of.

I'm also going to America for Adepticon; if anyone there asks for a tip without earning it, I'll tell them where they can stick it.

That's fine. However, if you tell the person handling your food where to stick it, he might just stick it there.

Really I shouldn't be replying to this since you've broken Rule No. 1, and the best thing to do with that is to click the triangle of friendship and move on. But I suppose I should set some things straight before you make other people gain a false impression of me who I may actually be meeting with over there.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
General Annoyance, no, I understood your points and was making a joke at your "internet tough guy" stance on someone who asks for a tip.

Internet tough guy? You have looked at my avatar, right? Or even my profile?

My friend, I'm just a kid who wants to go and see more of the world. I've seen a fair amount already, and I consider myself to be a good and reasonable traveller whenever I can be. I certainly don't plan on tarnishing my holiday by making people who are less fortunate miserable for serving me food and drink. Responding to someone here who asks for a tip which hasn't been earned, and most places that I have been, would be similar to what I've said. Or it would be a shake of the head with the expression of "are you having a laugh" on your face. That or you just pay your bill quietly and leave with no tip. Depends on the Brit.

Quit your bs and you won't get called out.

The bit in question that's breaking Rule no.1. Not much to add here other than "no?".

And stop with the strawman that Americans tip servers who "don't earn it." Servers generally kiss your ass and bend over backwards here in America and that is because they are gunning for a tip. So again, it isn't like servers are walking around with their hands out asking something for nothing.

I don't recall using this point of argument - that was meant to be a general thing to abide by, anywhere in the world. I've been to a lot of places; Shanghai, Sri Lanka, even lived in Dubai and Qatar for 9 years. Left plenty of tips in that time, but I don't agree with the concept that I somehow owe my server something by simply visiting; I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

However, a much more reasonable Dakkanaut reached out by PM because of this little chat, and I understand now (combined with what people have already said) that pay for servers in America is pretty abysmal, so the norm should be "tip very well for good service, tip for average, tip poorly for poor" as opposed to "tip well for good service, leave a pound or 2 for average, don't tip at all for poor" that would be the norm in the UK. With that context, I reckon I have more insight on my decisions there, and I suppose that answers the question of the thread quite well too.

Bad analogy. A generally accepted tipping policy for servers and waitstaff is not the same as needing to pay everyone who greets you. And it sounds like you do have an intention of being a poor visitor because you are overtly hostile to a tradition that you find unreasonable but the majority of your host country finds acceptable, reasonable, and earned. That says to me you probably won't tip. But whatever, enjoy your trip to Chicago!

It's basically the same if it hasn't been merited by anything, which would be how it is here (see above on that, however). If I accept your previous point of "Servers generally kiss your ass and bend over backwards here in America and that is because they are gunning for a tip" (which I do), then there is no reason at all for not tipping that, and tipping well. My problem is only when it's not earned, and that's not a jab at Americans, that's anywhere where you feel that their service isn't tip-worthy.

But yes, assume I'll keep my wallet shut while I'm there. I'll do my best to prove otherwise.


G.A



Edited for double post

To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

How about this: instead of thinking of tipping as an invisible second bill, think of it as a tax, or maybe a curious taboo where restaurants write only 82% of the actual price on a bill.

 Ouze wrote:
To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

Indeed. You do a job, you get paid fairly for it, and minimum wage applies. If the server gives poor service, they get fired. If they give good service, they keep their job and are compensated at the agreed rate just like anywhere else. I really don’t think tip/commission work where base pay is below “minimum” should exist.

 Ouze wrote:
To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

Indeed. It turns out it's racist anyways, you guys.

Dutch people almost never seem to give tips. And if they do, it is never more than 10%. And they consider that a lot already. Dutch people just hate spending money.
That said, in all of Europe I think tips over 10% are rare. And in many cases, the tip is already included as part of the bill.

 feeder wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

Indeed. It turns out it's racist anyways, you guys.

Nothing racist about it. It is not like that is the origin of tipping. It is much older than that, older than the US even. Tipping is something that started in the middle ages and it was a widespread custom in eating establishments across Europe by the 18th century.

 Ouze wrote:
To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

As someone who has worked as a waiter, cook, manager, and owner of a restaurant, I can tell you this: Anyone worth their salt as wait staff will give your plan the big middle finger. My store is in a small town in rural Iowa, yet good wait staff makes BANK for 30 to 35 hours per week. I start my employees off at $4.50 per hour (that's for a know-nothing, no experience, snot nosed 16 year-old) and will be more for more talented and experience people. My top waitress is at $8.50 per hour. What my top waitress records as her tips (and no wait staff EVER records all their earnings) is about $175 per week. So, realistically, she's making over $15 per hour. That's more than my managers. And no, there is no "common tip jar" to be evenly divided. Someone that busts their butts deserves more than someone that sits on theirs.

In all honesty, I've had waitresses demand raises because they don't make enough in tips. I then have to remind them that they make tips by waiting on people, not passing off their tables to other wait staff so they can text on their cell phones. You want money, take care of your customers, be courteous, be prompt, be accurate. That's really all it takes.

So, I grew up working in a restaurant. Thank Bacchus I have a real job now.

Wait staff don't make anything, really, as people have said. They're virtually dependent on tips to survive. Having that been said, tipping is stupid and weird.

Here's how I reconcile it in my head: Restaurants offer no employees to take your order, (re-)fill your drinks, or bring your food out to you. Kind strangers who are entirely willing to do this, however, happen to be at every restaurant across the country. They do this for basically no charge, out of the goodness of their hearts. As such, I kinda feel like they've earned any amount of money I'm willing to give them, and since they're doing stuff for free, they've probably earned something.

Being as I recall being a starving young adult trying to get by on wait-staff wages, my personal rule is 20% of the bill if they've done a reasonable job. That's NOT attending me instantly if I snap my fingers. That's my drink mostly staying full, my order being reasonably prompt and accurate, and not being a total donkey-cave if I happen to ask a question. That tip will drop down to as little as 10% if you piss me off, but you'd probably have to literally spit in my food in front of me to piss me off that much. I think there was only once in my life I ever tipped less than that, and I made a terror out of myself to the manager on my way out. I don't like doing that.

On the flipside, if you're awesome, I'll go up to 30%-50% depending on the situation and the service. Back when I lived downtown, I got on pretty good terms with quite a few of the local bartenders, they'd give me a few of my drinks free, and I'd count about half the drink on the tip. My girlfriend and I went out for her birthday over the last weekend to a trendy new place that had vegan food (her primary draw to it) and they had TWO people waiting on us. They also put up with her questions about all the food and were super cool about it. I gave them 40%, because I was a little unsure of how the tip splitting worked and didn't want to be awkward and ask. It was a weird situation, but ultimately, it was easily in the top 10 times I've been waited on, so regardless, I felt they deserved it.

It's a really complicated system, because as I think about it, there's the chain counter places, fast food, and food trucks. Fast food and the 'chain counter places' I don't tip. These are the places like Qdoba or Chipotle where you get up to get everything, yet they still have a tip jar. Uh-uh. I don't do that. Food trucks I'll usually chip in a buck or two, but they're not doing anything much other than cooking my food, so I don't know if I'm justified or otherwise there.

My biggest blind spot are delivery guys. I'll give them 20% if they get the food there in a reasonable manner, and usually the way they react indicates that it might be too much, but I find that my pizzas get delivered consistently fast after the first one or two unless its a new guy.

My general tipping scale is dependent on the type of place I'm at. Fast food and buffet get nothing usually. Simple diners are about 15%, Olive Garden type restaurants (want to be classy, but still not quite there) are about 18%, with really nice places about 22%.

This will then be modified depending on quality of service.

Literally the best service I ever got was at an Olive Garden. Our waiter never let our drinks be empty, knew how to be friendly without talking too much, anticipated our other needs, and kept a professional demeanor about himself despite being swamped with people. My bill was about $50, and I felt completely justified giving him a $100 and telling him to keep the change.

On the other hand, one waitress I had once ignored me, took 20 minutes to take my order (it was 3pm, so not a busy time), had to have my food remade because she relayed the wrong menu item, never got a drink refill even after asking, my food was cold by the time I got it, and openly disparaged another customer within my earshot (likely the other customer heard too). I left nothing.

 General Annoyance wrote:

And stop with the strawman that Americans tip servers who "don't earn it." Servers generally kiss your ass and bend over backwards here in America and that is because they are gunning for a tip. So again, it isn't like servers are walking around with their hands out asking something for nothing.

I don't recall using this point of argument - that was meant to be a general thing to abide by, anywhere in the world. I've been to a lot of places; Shanghai, Sri Lanka, even lived in Dubai and Qatar for 9 years. Left plenty of tips in that time, but I don't agree with the concept that I somehow owe my server something by simply visiting; I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

You don't recall making that argument? Here:

 General Annoyance wrote:


If a country had a custom where you had to pay a pound/dollar to everyone you said hello to on the street, would you abide by that custom?

I have no intention of being a poor visitor, but local customs should only be respected if they're within reason. Having a "second invisible bill" as Ashiraya put it earlier, without earning it, is not a reasonable custom to have.

What is irksome with your approach to this topic, besides your ridiculous initial tough guy act, is that you are leveling a criticism about a cultural aspect of the US (wide spread acceptance of tipping) without really having a reason to do so. As you indicate below you accept that servers in America generally go out of their way to earn their tips yet your initial post made much ado about sticking it to someone who had the imaginary audacity to ask for a tip when they didn't "earn" it. To me that is just juvenile posturing and trying to take a dig at a custom you seem to have a problem with. And don't say you don't have a problem with tipping as you said yourself you view it as a "second invisible bill."

 General Annoyance wrote:
However, a much more reasonable Dakkanaut reached out by PM because of this little chat, and I understand now (combined with what people have already said) that pay for servers in America is pretty abysmal, so the norm should be "tip very well for good service, tip for average, tip poorly for poor" as opposed to "tip well for good service, leave a pound or 2 for average, don't tip at all for poor" that would be the norm in the UK. With that context, I reckon I have more insight on my decisions there, and I suppose that answers the question of the thread quite well too.

So, it took a PM from someone for you to understand something pointed out in post #3 of this thread? Okay. Read the thread next time?

 General Annoyance wrote:

Bad analogy. A generally accepted tipping policy for servers and waitstaff is not the same as needing to pay everyone who greets you. And it sounds like you do have an intention of being a poor visitor because you are overtly hostile to a tradition that you find unreasonable but the majority of your host country finds acceptable, reasonable, and earned. That says to me you probably won't tip. But whatever, enjoy your trip to Chicago!

It's basically the same if it hasn't been merited by anything, which would be how it is here (see above on that, however). If I accept your previous point of "Servers generally kiss your ass and bend over backwards here in America and that is because they are gunning for a tip" (which I do), then there is no reason at all for not tipping that, and tipping well.

Great, tip your servers! Glad we got that sorted, enjoy Adepticon!

Ouze wrote:To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

Don't stores in the US exclude taxes from their displayed prices too (and you have to add them when buying stuff)? That's the same just legalised and without the social contract.

cuda1179 wrote:As someone who has worked as a waiter, cook, manager, and owner of a restaurant, I can tell you this: Anyone worth their salt as wait staff will give your plan the big middle finger. My store is in a small town in rural Iowa, yet good wait staff makes BANK for 30 to 35 hours per week. I start my employees off at $4.50 per hour (that's for a know-nothing, no experience, snot nosed 16 year-old) and will be more for more talented and experience people. My top waitress is at $8.50 per hour. What my top waitress records as her tips (and no wait staff EVER records all their earnings) is about $175 per week. So, realistically, she's making over $15 per hour. That's more than my managers. And no, there is no "common tip jar" to be evenly divided. Someone that busts their butts deserves more than someone that sits on theirs.

$4.50 per hour, $8.50 per hour, that'd be illegal here. I guess it's okay and evens out to that (on average) while in an apprenticeship where you also spend time in school and are not working all the time. But a full time job at $4.50 per hour even without experience is rather low and then needing customers to bump that up to a liveable wage. That just sounds grim.

Mario wrote:

Ouze wrote:To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

Don't stores in the US exclude taxes from their displayed prices too (and you have to add them when buying stuff)? That's the same just legalised and without the social contract.

cuda1179 wrote:As someone who has worked as a waiter, cook, manager, and owner of a restaurant, I can tell you this: Anyone worth their salt as wait staff will give your plan the big middle finger. My store is in a small town in rural Iowa, yet good wait staff makes BANK for 30 to 35 hours per week. I start my employees off at $4.50 per hour (that's for a know-nothing, no experience, snot nosed 16 year-old) and will be more for more talented and experience people. My top waitress is at $8.50 per hour. What my top waitress records as her tips (and no wait staff EVER records all their earnings) is about $175 per week. So, realistically, she's making over $15 per hour. That's more than my managers. And no, there is no "common tip jar" to be evenly divided. Someone that busts their butts deserves more than someone that sits on theirs.

$4.50 per hour, $8.50 per hour, that'd be illegal here. I guess it's okay and evens out to that (on average) while in an apprenticeship where you also spend time in school and are not working all the time. But a full time job at $4.50 per hour even without experience is rather low and then needing customers to bump that up to a liveable wage. That just sounds grim.

Yeah they do not include tax, one thing I liked about Germany when I went there was that it was added in on the sticker price

 Ouze wrote:
To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

Totes

 Stevefamine wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I always find tipping such an alien concept. It's basically not a thing in Sweden (it happens, but I have only done it in truly extraordinary cases). It always makes me a bit uncomfortable when tips are treated as a second invisible bill.

Out of curiosity - two questions for a Swede:

1) What are waiters paid. In the US they get paid equivalent of 2-3 Euros an hour. After taxes, a 40 hour work week at a restaurant ran me about $60 usd / week and around 300-400 cash in tips. Are waiters getting the equivalent of 10+ Euros an hour over there? That seems to be a much better way of doing things. My figures are also from 2011~

2) What if your service is terrible.... is the bill waived due to the waiter's error? Or how do you resolve that?

I don't know what exactly they make, I haven't been a waiter, but I'd be surprised if basically anyone working in Sweden (aside from those working illegally, maybe?) made less than $1000 or so a month. Probably more. I could see waiters in fine restaurants making considerably more.

The seller job I almost got, which wasn't all that glamorous, offered $1500/month plus a small-ish bonus based on successful sales. (I was beaten to that job, though, unfortunately)

For your second question, I am fairly sure service level is irrelevant to the bill itself. If it's very poor you can mention that to the manager, though.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and agreed on Ouze about tipping being bad, even accounting for my extra national bias against it.

Right.

But the OP asked about how to handle this in the USA.

Deciding to not handle it this way in the USA might lead to some...bad experiences, and is most likely going to deprive some hard workers money that they 'should' have received and most likely would have received from someone else.

nareik wrote:

 xKillGorex wrote:
Been a waiter myself many years ago. As a customer and on the other side of the fence I think a tip is due only when a good service is given.
People shouldn’t expect anything as a given.

I think you are overlooking the context of the thread; in the UK servers are paid reasonable money, i.e. at least minimum wage. In the states, where OP is headed to, they can be paid significantly less than that and are expected to make up their wage with tips.

I agree in the UK, tip when it is deserved; a bonus for excellent service. In the US it is a different situation, you aren't providing the bonus with a tip, you are filling the basic wage.


Is that right amerikkas?

Ha damn trust me bud, the wages in the uk might be ok now but it hasn’t always been that way. Back in the 90’s you were doing it for just over two quid in some places an hour. Hard work, the hours sucked and in the end I hated so got the hell out of hospitality. But hey I was younger then and needed the cash.

All the servers I have ever known, including myself, prefer the act of tipping to being paid more without tipping. Why? It rewards those that work harder. Sure, there is such a thing as raises, but this is like a raise in "real time", not something you might expect in a few months. It also mean that when a coworker pawns extra work off on you that you get something for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to add one more thing, every state may set its own minimum wage, as long as it at least meets the Federal minimum. If an employee does not make many tips, the employer is REQUIRED to make sure their overall wage+tip amount is at least the minimum wage. So no server, regardless of how bad they are, will make less than $7.25 per hour (or even more depending on the state), and possibly as much as $15 per hour in some areas.

 cuda1179 wrote:

Just to add one more thing, every state may set its own minimum wage, as long as it at least meets the Federal minimum. If an employee does not make many tips, the employer is REQUIRED to make sure their overall wage+tip amount is at least the minimum wage. So no server, regardless of how bad they are, will make less than $7.25 per hour (or even more depending on the state), and possibly as much as $15 per hour in some areas.

Indeed. Lots of people forget this. You always make minimum wage, even when tips are involved. Most states also have a minimum wage above Federal.

Regarding this whole issue. I would prefer tips earned be in addition to a wage paid by the employer, not "The employee makes minimum wage or tips, whichever is higher". So servers should get paid minimum wage plus tips on top of it. That would seem to me to be the fairest solution. Most server positions really couldn't justify getting paid by the employer more than minimum wage based on the value of the labor, and at the same time Tips shouldn't be used as an excuse for the employer to get out of paying them for their labor.

 cuda1179 wrote:
All the servers I have ever known, including myself, prefer the act of tipping to being paid more without tipping. Why? It rewards those that work harder.

I'm sure every hideous dude that works hard gets tipped substantially more that a gorgeous waitress who is slow - please.

 cuda1179 wrote:
As someone who has worked as a waiter, cook, manager, and owner of a restaurant, I can tell you this: Anyone worth their salt as wait staff will give your plan the big middle finger. My store is in a small town in rural Iowa, yet good wait staff makes BANK for 30 to 35 hours per week.

Sounds like you can afford to pay them a viable wage then, instead of them having a totally unreliable payroll that is to a great deal out of their control, such as when the patrons are in a bad mood (or just cheap, or broke), the weather is bad, the food is burned, or so on.

The original idea behind tipping was to reward exceptional service, but now it's a cultural norm to leave at least 15%, minimum, because otherwise waitstaff makes too little to live on. That's a structural problem with your business model.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Tips shouldn't be used as an excuse for the employer to get out of paying them for their labor.

And yet that's exactly what it boils down to in the end: the business gets to keep prices artificially low because they can pass a chunk of their payroll off directly to their customers. If you can't afford to pay your waitstaff a fair wage, then maybe you're not very good at running a restaurant.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
To be fair, tipping is completely stupid. It would be better for literally everyone involved if waitstaff were paid a fair wage and patrons just got a bill for what they ate. We would never accept this in virtually any other industry, really, so pointing out that hospitality/service workers have an extremely bizarre, unreasonable compensation arrangement isn't unwarranted.

As someone who has worked as a waiter, cook, manager, and owner of a restaurant, I can tell you this: Anyone worth their salt as wait staff will give your plan the big middle finger.

I think both these things are true, but I agree with Ouze. People should be paid what their worth, and service in the food industry is probably the foremost maker and breaker of any establishment. Even if your food is god you're likely to have no business very fast if the service is poor (I know I've walked out of places with no intention to return just because I couldn't get a refill and the food was actually good). It shouldn't be the responsibility of customers to pay staff for employers, and the response to "I make more in tips than in minimum wage" is that minimum wage is too low. Even then service staff would still probably be able to make tips simply because it's a cultural norm that has been corrupted into a defense of gak wage rates that will probably still be a cultural norm even if wage rates weren't gak.

So basically I'm with Grey Templar on this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Nothing racist about it. It is not like that is the origin of tipping. It is much older than that, older than the US even. Tipping is something that started in the middle ages and it was a widespread custom in eating establishments across Europe by the 18th century.

I think you're missing the point of the article (which is accurate by the way). In the US tipping is higher than it is in most other countries including those where tipping is a widely accepted norm and the exact reason for that is way back in the 19th century business owners made an arrangement with the government to get out of our early wage laws. The arrangement almost completely effected African Americans who at the time were the primary employees in the service industry (this is still quite true though nowhere near to the degree it was back then).

So yeah. The tipping scheme in the US exists at it does in part for racist reasons but the system itself is well beyond that point now. Though there are still some really bizarre and confusing things still associated with race and tipping, such as the Black-White Tipping Divide, which runs both ways which I think has been overlooked as a reason for why the former exists.

Interesting topic and informative for one whose country doesn't have standard tipping culture and visits only country where even trying to tip can get you into akward social situation.

Feels weird system for me but well...American's can do what they want. Have to keep this in mind in the hyper super unlikely scenario I ever go there.

 General Annoyance wrote:
I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

...

But yes, assume I'll keep my wallet shut while I'm there. I'll do my best to prove otherwise.

Yeah if you do that you're just going to come across as a dick to everyone.

It's not just a custom of politeness, it's simply how things work, servers do not get paid enough by the establishment, they're effectively getting paid by you.

Don't get me wrong, I think tipping for average service is stupid, but it's how it works in the US.

Consider that you're basically getting your food cheaper than you would in other countries because you are expected to pay for service separately whereas in other countries that price is built in to the cost of the food itself.

If you don't think service is worth anything, then stick to eating at fast food joints and don't whinge about servers not "earning" their tips.

And again, I say this as someone who thinks standardised tipping is a stupid idea.


Anyway, all that aside, aren't tipping customs different depending on the state? And aren't there some states that the servers have to be paid more if they didn't earn enough in tips?

having worked in a restaurant I have issues not tipping, yeah even at coffee places and convenience markets around school. I know how much those kids likely get paid, and the pains that they have to deal with.
same with take out, the restaurant I worked at had take out, those people busted their butts for those orders, usually having to maneuver around sit in orders and reminding the cooks time and time again to get to their stuff too. sure I tip them less, but rarely less than 10%
I treat coffee how someone else here mentioned bars, buck a drink, if I use a card I round up to the nearest dollar too

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

...

But yes, assume I'll keep my wallet shut while I'm there. I'll do my best to prove otherwise.

Consider that you're basically getting your food cheaper than you would in other countries because you are expected to pay for service separately whereas in other countries that price is built in to the cost of the food itself.

In the UK, tipping is discretionary, but some Restaurants try to sneak it onto your bill. That I find insulting and rude. Especially when we keep finding out large chains haven't been doling said tips onto their staff, instead just chucking it in with general takings.

But, as for the US? When in Rome, as the saying goes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:
I've paid my bill for the food, anything extra is payment of goodwill, not something that should be expected, even if customs in America say that it is expected.

...

But yes, assume I'll keep my wallet shut while I'm there. I'll do my best to prove otherwise.

Consider that you're basically getting your food cheaper than you would in other countries because you are expected to pay for service separately whereas in other countries that price is built in to the cost of the food itself.

In the UK, tipping is discretionary, but some Restaurants try to sneak it onto your bill. That I find insulting and rude. Especially when we keep finding out large chains haven't been doling said tips onto their staff, instead just chucking it in with general takings.

But, as for the US? When in Rome, as the saying goes.

Yeah, I went to one restaurant (not in the US) where I was quite happy with the service and was planning on tipping, they put a service charge on the bill that wasn't outlined in the initial pricing so I just ended up giving them the service charge when I would have been happy to give them more of a tip anyway.

Another occasion (again, not in the US) at a work gathering of 10 or so people we got okay but not exceptional service but they overcharged us and still had the balls to add a service charge. After arguing about it for a while we gave up and paid it but now word of that has probably spread from us 10 to maybe a couple of hundred people.

I do get a bit unhappy when non-US restaurants put on extra service charges, mandatory tipping is a crutch of the USA not something to be proud of IMO Folk in other countries do tip, we just only do it for exceptional service and probably not as frequently as we should.

Servers generally kiss your ass and bend over backwards here in America and that is because they are gunning for a tip.

To be honest, I found that slightly irritating. No, not every choice I make is a good one, and I know it .
Not a fan of the yes-master-attitude, I'd give more for a little sass.
I had to remind myself that I had to tip a lot, at home usually I tip about 3-5%, 10% if the service was exceptional, pizza guy gets to keep the change if it's over 1 Euro, otherwise I'll add 1 Euro.
That said, proper waitstaff (3-year-apprenticeship) don't make minimum wage (roughly 1400 Euro a month) here, more like somewhere a bit above 2000 plus tips.

Yeah, I went to one restaurant (not in the US) where I was quite happy with the service and was planning on tipping, they put a service charge on the bill that wasn't outlined in the initial pricing

I've seen that in Italy. Don't like it much. I generally don't like to have to do math to know what I have to pay for. That's also why the taxless sticker prices in the US are quite annoying because you can't avoid that anyway.

KTG17 wrote:
As a waiter all thru college, I tip closer to 20%, but what really annoys me are tip jars in places like coffee or donut shops or tip lines on credit card slips. If you are bringing me my food and refilling my drink, I am going to treat you as well as you treat me. I am not going to tip you for ringing me up at a register. I hate it.

What is next? Tipping the cashier at Walmart?

Thats my thoughts on it. MAYBE at a coffee shop but only if the coffee maker is really pleasant but even then Im not a fan for the reason you mentioned

Coffee isn't a problem. I don't and can't drink it. Brings on a migraine without fail!

For curiosuty, in the UK, many places are not supposed to take tips.

Managers will insist that staff should refuse tips, and if they find any tips they will probably throw them in the till to offset any mischange/voids.

It makes for very awkward exchanges, where you have a generous patron being insistant the server takes the tip, while the manager looms around the corner and the staff member stuttering about how they really can't accept the patron's generosity.

Surely the sensible system would be pay the staff a reasonable wage AND allow them to pocket any bonus customers might feel like gifting them?

I see where it comes from though.

Many many moons ago, my first proper job was working in a Hotel. One of our customers got food poisoning, and was in a bad way. Me being me, I called my local GP surgery, and was able to arrange a house call (1997, so rare, but not unheard of). Result of that was he was sent to hospital for urgent reasons, and the blokes wife gave me a £50 tip.

I saw little of it, because Hotel Policy was to pool the tips - theory there being the Kitchen Staff themselves didn't get paid tips at all, only the wait staff.

nareik wrote:
For curiosuty, in the UK, many places are not supposed to take tips.

I have never been anywhere in the UK that does not accept tips.

My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I saw little of it, because Hotel Policy was to pool the tips - theory there being the Kitchen Staff themselves didn't get paid tips at all, only the wait staff.

I dislike that. If I am tipping I am tipping the waiting staff for their service, not the quality of the food. If they give me terrible food but exceptional service I will tip, if I get crap service but exceptional food they will get nothing. To me the tip is for the customer service. If a chef wants a split of the tips they should work front of house and deal with the crappy demands of customers.

Having said that I disagree with tipping in general. What makes food service exceptional to any other service provided? The team I manager, who are a customer service team, don't get tips. The food industry just seems to get away with paying people less. Make the cost upfront. I do tip, around 10% (rounding up or down to the nearest £1), but am never happy about it. It's an extra charge that is not up front. I refuse to tip if there is a mandatory service charge, and where it is optional I will try and pay it in cash. I dislike paying a tip on card, but often that is all I have. I particularly dislike it when I go out with a friend who has spent a lot of time in the US and likes to leave a 20% tip, which is huge in the UK.

If I went to the US I would tip, as it is what is done. I don't agree with it or the way the it works in the US with this making up the bulk of pay, and the fact that tipping is claimed to improve service, but then paid regardless of the service given, but it's not my country.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Err, shouldn't they be declaring cash tips and paying tax on them as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

XuQishi wrote:

Yeah, I went to one restaurant (not in the US) where I was quite happy with the service and was planning on tipping, they put a service charge on the bill that wasn't outlined in the initial pricing

I've seen that in Italy. Don't like it much. I generally don't like to have to do math to know what I have to pay for. That's also why the taxless sticker prices in the US are quite annoying because you can't avoid that anyway.

Oh don't get me started. The massive pile of pennies I ended up with after giving up trying to pay exact change when the price you see isn't the price you pay

Waiters are always paid at least minimum wage (federal minimum $7.75(?)/hr, but most states are higher) regardless of tips.

When tips are included, the number varies by state. In my state, if tips exceeding minimum are received, they receive something like 4.50/hr.

So if they receive $10 in tips in an hour, they earn $14.50 that hour. If they receive $2 in tips in an hour, they receive at least $7.75 (in this case - $5.75 + $2 in tips).

It's often repeated around the internet that waiters make $2-3 per hour, and thus are making only 80-120 a week and you're horrible for not tipping. It's not true.

Personally, I think it's a crappy system.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Err, shouldn't they be declaring cash tips and paying tax on them as well?

*Technically* yes, all tips regardless of how paid are supposed to be reported as taxable income.

In reality? Doesn't happen that way.

Just like double taxation. It technically doesn't happen...and yet it most definitely does.

Waiters should be paid by their employers, not depend on the kindness of strangers. If your business can't afford to pay a living wage, shut down your business and go sell insurance with your uncle.

Anyone that disagrees with me is wrong and probably kicks puppies.

fething puppy kickers.

SirWeeble wrote:
Waiters are always paid at least minimum wage (federal minimum $7.75(?)/hr, but most states are higher) regardless of tips.

When tips are included, the number varies by state. In my state, if tips exceeding minimum are received, they receive something like 4.50/hr.

So if they receive $10 in tips in an hour, they earn $14.50 that hour. If they receive $2 in tips in an hour, they receive at least $7.75 (in this case - $5.75 + $2 in tips).

It's often repeated around the internet that waiters make $2-3 per hour, and thus are making only 80-120 a week and you're horrible for not tipping. It's not true.

Personally, I think it's a crappy system.

I haven't tried to do the maths but when I look around a restaurant and see 2 or 3 people serving a bunch of folks ordering expensive food and think each of them is handing over 20% extra straight to the server, I think that must not be too bad, it just must suck working in a restaurant that's quiet or working at quiet times of day. That means 17% of the money paid by customers is going directly to the server without considering other folk required to make the business run, rent for the building, the cost of the food itself, utilities and whatnot.

If people paid me 20% of what they pay the company I work for I'd have been a rich man years ago

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Not nice policy if you don't use cash. Don't know how it's in US but I NEVER EVER EVER have any physical cash with me unless I know in advance I need to pay something(by say buying 2nd hand models). If tipping would have to be on cash I would be flat out unable to tip as I never have any coins etc. I hate dealing with change. Just slows down payment process.

Makes very annoying part of Japan(that I otherwise love) as it's hard to avoid cash there :(

SirWeeble wrote:
Waiters are always paid at least minimum wage (federal minimum $7.75(?)/hr, but most states are higher) regardless of tips.

When tips are included, the number varies by state. In my state, if tips exceeding minimum are received, they receive something like 4.50/hr.

So if they receive $10 in tips in an hour, they earn $14.50 that hour. If they receive $2 in tips in an hour, they receive at least $7.75 (in this case - $5.75 + $2 in tips).

It's often repeated around the internet that waiters make $2-3 per hour, and thus are making only 80-120 a week and you're horrible for not tipping. It's not true.

Personally, I think it's a crappy system.

"Thus, the maximum tip credit that an employer can
currently claim under the FLSA section 3(m) is $5.12 per hour (the minimum wage of $7.25 minus the
minimum required cash wage of $2.13). Under certain circumstances, an employer may be able to
claim an additional overtime tip credit against its overtime obligations."

And in addition as to why to always pay cash tip:

Credit Cards: Where tips are charged on a credit card and the employer must pay the credit card
company a percentage on each sale, the employer may pay the employee the tip, less that percentage.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If people paid me 20% of what they pay the company I work for I'd have been a rich man years ago

I know a guy who works at upscale places (not five star but not the kind of place typical people can afford as a mere night out either) and he makes about $300 a night. His favorite customers are the ones who order multiple bottles of wine as his place apparently doesn't do cheap wine and two bottles basically earn him $50 in tips alone.

Lucky bastard XD

I always thought that 10% was a standard appropriate tip haha! Although, as it is immediately obvious from my accent that I'm not from the USA I doubt anyone took offence.

You could always feign ignorance and not tip at all? Just make sure not to eat in the same place twice

I'm usually cashless too - but when on holiday, reckon I'd have a decent wedge on hand until I can suss out the prevalence of stuff like contactless payments - I'm also wary of additional charges from my bank, and things like my card getting lost/pinched, leaving me without access to money.

At least with cash, I can leave $300 or something in my hotel room - enough to see me through the remainder if I don't do anything expensives.

 TheMeanDM wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Err, shouldn't they be declaring cash tips and paying tax on them as well?

*Technically* yes, all tips regardless of how paid are supposed to be reported as taxable income.

In reality? Doesn't happen that way.

Just like double taxation. It technically doesn't happen...and yet it most definitely does.

There was a time when I might have made exceptions to help folk avoid paying tax, these days not so much (now that I'm paying a decent chunk of tax myself that I can't avoid ). As much as I hate tax, there should be legit channels for people who can't afford to pay it to get refunds on it rather than just avoiding the system entirely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If people paid me 20% of what they pay the company I work for I'd have been a rich man years ago

I know a guy who works at upscale places (not five star but not the kind of place typical people can afford as a mere night out either) and he makes about $300 a night. His favorite customers are the ones who order multiple bottles of wine as his place apparently doesn't do cheap wine and two bottles basically earn him $50 in tips alone.

Lucky bastard XD

I don't usually eat in fancy joints, but occasionally I've thought "Damn, this person is making a huge amount of money in tips off me for what amounts to about 5 minutes of actual interaction with me"

Wow....damn...read this again and tell me that the employer isn't screwing the wait staff:

Credit Cards: Where tips are charged on a credit card and the employer must pay the credit card
company a percentage on each sale, the employer may pay the employee the tip, less that percentage

** esited for reading comprehension..lack of! **
O U C H to the employee...for not having done anything except for their job!

I think you're misreading that. The employee pays the credit card processing fee on the tip amount, not the entire purchase amount (which could, with a small tip, leave the employee with a negative tip). So in your example the employer deducts 5% of the $10 tip, giving the employee $9.50. That's a loss, sure, but not a crippling one. The actual reason to pay cash is that it's tax-free income.

 Peregrine wrote:
I think you're misreading that. The employee pays the credit card processing fee on the tip amount, not the entire purchase amount (which could, with a small tip, leave the employee with a negative tip). So in your example the employer deducts 5% of the $10 tip, giving the employee $9.50. That's a loss, sure, but not a crippling one. The actual reason to pay cash is that it's tax-free income.

Fixed it....you are right...it wasn't as bad as I was thinking. Stupid geaveyard shift making my brain mush!

tneva82 wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
My girlfriend has been a waitress part time for several years.

Her first and most important piece of advice:

ALWAYS TIP WITH CASH

The reason being the server *will* have to pay taxes on tips which are charged on a credit/debit card.

As some have said, 15 to 20% is a fairly common range...but do not hesitate to tip more if you get excellent service (and conversely if you get terrible service).

Not nice policy if you don't use cash. Don't know how it's in US but I NEVER EVER EVER have any physical cash with me unless I know in advance I need to pay something(by say buying 2nd hand models). If tipping would have to be on cash I would be flat out unable to tip as I never have any coins etc. I hate dealing with change. Just slows down payment process.

Makes very annoying part of Japan(that I otherwise love) as it's hard to avoid cash there :(

Yeah, but at least you never have to tip.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
I think you're misreading that. The employee pays the credit card processing fee on the tip amount, not the entire purchase amount (which could, with a small tip, leave the employee with a negative tip). So in your example the employer deducts 5% of the $10 tip, giving the employee $9.50. That's a loss, sure, but not a crippling one. The actual reason to pay cash is that it's tax-free income.

Also, as I understand it, giving the staff a cash tip means it goes to them directly; adding it onto the card payment means you're relying on the employer passing it to the employee.

*Technically* yes, all tips regardless of how paid are supposed to be reported as taxable income.

In reality? Doesn't happen that way.

Just like double taxation. It technically doesn't happen...and yet it most definitely does.

FYI, not claiming anything for taxes is a bad idea. I managed a bar/restaurant in the 90's and not claiming cash tips was the norm like you said. We let someone go and they reported the establishment to the IRS for this. They came down hard, fined the establishment for not enforcing tips being taxed (you are supposed to add them to the employees payroll so withholdings can be taken out) and they went after every tipped employee from the previous ten years for back taxes.

How did they do that? Pull a number out of their butt? I mean if we are talking cash nobody knows what went where when.

Which is the other problem with tipping as an American institution - it's an enormous bastion of tax evasion.

 Peregrine wrote:
I think you're misreading that. The employee pays the credit card processing fee on the tip amount, not the entire purchase amount (which could, with a small tip, leave the employee with a negative tip). So in your example the employer deducts 5% of the $10 tip, giving the employee $9.50. That's a loss, sure, but not a crippling one. The actual reason to pay cash is that it's tax-free income.

And its more like 0.5% to 1.5% card charge.

It used to be in the UK that employers were also able to add a handling charge, but that was stopped.

XuQishi wrote:
How did they do that? Pull a number out of their butt? I mean if we are talking cash nobody knows what went where when.

I would presume they estimate it. Generally not in favourable terms to you so even without fine you would have been better off paying them originally...

SirWeeble wrote:
Waiters are always paid at least minimum wage (federal minimum $7.75(?)/hr, but most states are higher) regardless of tips.

When tips are included, the number varies by state. In my state, if tips exceeding minimum are received, they receive something like 4.50/hr.

So if they receive $10 in tips in an hour, they earn $14.50 that hour. If they receive $2 in tips in an hour, they receive at least $7.75 (in this case - $5.75 + $2 in tips).

It's often repeated around the internet that waiters make $2-3 per hour, and thus are making only 80-120 a week and you're horrible for not tipping. It's not true.

Personally, I think it's a crappy system.

I was not aware of this! Thanks for sharing that insight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steve steveson wrote:

nareik wrote:
For curiosuty, in the UK, many places are not supposed to take tips.

I have never been anywhere in the UK that does not accept tips.

I'd wager you have, even if unwittingly.It seems the general practice at no-tips establishments is for the staff to take the tips anyway. /boggle

We had an employee audited by the IRS because she grossly under reporter her tips. Our general rule at my store is "report at least $3 per hour in tips." That keeps the IRS off your but while you keep a good portion of your income off the books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

XuQishi wrote:
How did they do that? Pull a number out of their butt? I mean if we are talking cash nobody knows what went where when.

Some people so massively under report tips the IRS knows something is up. What they assume you make is still a drop in the bucket compared to what you actually made.

 Ouze wrote:
Which is the other problem with tipping as an American institution - it's an enormous bastion of tax evasion.

Well, perhaps a small bastion. The people evading taxes in this manner are still making very little money, tax evasion just lets them do a bit better than minimum wage. I honestly can't find any motivation to care about it compared to the much greater issue of the obscenely rich avoiding taxes so they can be even more obscenely rich.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Which is the other problem with tipping as an American institution - it's an enormous bastion of tax evasion.

Well, perhaps a small bastion. The people evading taxes in this manner are still making very little money, tax evasion just lets them do a bit better than minimum wage. I honestly can't find any motivation to care about it compared to the much greater issue of the obscenely rich avoiding taxes so they can be even more obscenely rich.

Well, that and the previously mentioned fact that the whole tip system is basically a way for employers to bypass wage laws and have a ridiculously underpaid service industry. But Applebees has to make money somehow!

As someone in the industry, I can tell you that there isn't exactly a high profit margin. About 25% or more of every item ordered is spent on food materials. About 25% on payroll. Then add in utilities, taxes, credit card fees, insurance, and maintenance. On a good month you have a 10% profit. On a bad month you're in the red.

 Peregrine wrote:
Well, perhaps a small bastion.

OK, lets call it "widespread", instead. There are nearly 3 million of them in the US, and I have to imagine the percentage of them accurately claiming their actual taxable income is exceedingly low.

I'll readily agree that the It's not the biggest concern with how tipping is screwed up in general, and that the bajillion dollar companies that somehow pay no corporate taxes are a bigger problem then the people making "bank" at $19k a year, but if we're making a list of how tipping sucks and why, it should be mentioned.

 cuda1179 wrote:
We had an employee audited by the IRS because she grossly under reporter her tips. Our general rule at my store is "report at least $3 per hour in tips." That keeps the IRS off your but while you keep a good portion of your income off the books.

ITT, helpful advice on how to commit tax evasion.


To reiterate, tipping is dumb and everyone would be better off if it didn't exist.

I'll mention that I've known people who worked as servers and if they recieved less than min. wage the employer made up the difference. A couple of days of slow business/tipping they were warned they would be fired for underperforming. Not because they were slacking off or missiing shifts, but because the employer had to pay them.

*edited for spelling

How did they do that? Pull a number out of their butt? I mean if we are talking cash nobody knows what went where when.

That's exactly what they did. They came up with an average hourly wage based on the region and went after them for tax's from the difference between what they claimed and what the IRS decided they should have claimed. Like people above said as long as you claim something in cash earnings the IRS generally wont come after you. Like I said in our case a disgruntled former employee called them and once they show up I guarantee they are not going to think your employees paid enough.

Its funny that the IRS doesn't have to prove that you evaded paying tax...they just need to say they *think* you didn't and make you pay anyways.

Sounds very much like a Monty Python sketch....

I reported all my taxable income.

No you didn't.

Yes I have.

All of it?

Yes. All of it.

No you didn't!

Yes I did!

You didn't!

I did!

You didn't!

I'm telling you, I did!

You did not! (makes you pay anyways)

Oh, it sucked, but what are you going to do. You can't really fight the US government. Just make sure she claims some cash tips. If they see she is making tips on charge cards but no tips in cash huge red flag.

In Spain tipping is common but not obligatory, and more in tourism zones. In a normal restaurant of a town you aren't supposed to tip.

But we have here common tips. Its unfair for the waitress to have all the tips where people in the kitchen or a waitress that for any reason that day is doing other kind of job (Because yeah underpayed jobs do all kind of crappy stuff that they aren't supposed to do, just like they work 12 hours a day in summer with 0 free days).

But in general Hostelry in Spain is horrible. Don't take our example for anything related to hostelry.

 KingCracker wrote:

KTG17 wrote:
As a waiter all thru college, I tip closer to 20%, but what really annoys me are tip jars in places like coffee or donut shops or tip lines on credit card slips. If you are bringing me my food and refilling my drink, I am going to treat you as well as you treat me. I am not going to tip you for ringing me up at a register. I hate it.

What is next? Tipping the cashier at Walmart?

Thats my thoughts on it. MAYBE at a coffee shop but only if the coffee maker is really pleasant but even then Im not a fan for the reason you mentioned

The most onerous parts of their jobs have nothing to do with coffee. Most baristas deserve a tip just for managing not to strangle some dingleberry who desperately deserves it.

Also, around here there seems to be a lot of rogue poopers to clean after.

I tip 20%. If I do a pickup order from somewhere, I tip 10%; 20% is for service at a sit down table. $1 per drink is appropriate in a bar, but I agree that tip jars in a supermarket is the most ridiculous thing ever. I also don’t like tipping for gas pump attendants; they usually take WAY longer than I would myself, and are more of an inconvenience. But some states don’t allow you to pump your own gas (Oregon and New Jersey come to mind). But when I’m not allowed to pump my own gas and I’m forced to wait for someone else by law, well...no. I’m not tipping for inconvenience.

I totally don't tip when I'm picking up food. Handing me a bag doesn't seem like a tipping situation regardless if it's from a restaurant or a supermarket.

Looks like the OP's question has been, for the most part, answered.

So, with that...