I thought I saw a post about this the other day but I now can't find it - if you could rewrite a faction's fluff, what would you do?
I was thinking about the T'au and their battlesuits. If I were rewriting them from the ground up, I would keep much of their early fluff the same, being discovered by the Imperium, cut off by Warp storms, etc. What I would change, is that the Imperium starts encountering these advanced battlesuits, but they're all drones rather than being piloted directly. It takes literally decades before they find the T'au stealthships that have been remotely directing the drones in every battle they've fought. You can still have Ethereals etc., I just think it would be cool if their fluff was entirely in a drone-based direction.
Necrons. You don't just need to rewrite the fluff, you need to travel back in time and blow away evidence of all the previous fluff. They now have this complicated mish-mash of fluff that makes them seem meh.
The Imperium. I think GW painted themselves in a corner when they defined all of non-chaos humanity as a single faction. If they knew just how human focused the fluff was going to be it would have bee a good opportunity to split the Imperium to two separate factions - perhaps a religious and irreligious one (both belligerent and ignorant of course). This would give a mechanism to explain all the human vs human fighting, all the focus on the Imperium, and even provide a mechanic to avoid certain models from being paired with each other. Likewise it would give more creative space to explore how humanity approachs things from different angles.
Some small part of me hopes the new fluff will lead to a civil war between Gulliman and the ecclisarchy. Imagine the possibilities.
I'd change the Tau too, it'd be an extremely minor change but an important one. I'd give them warp drives on par with everyone else. The Slow speed of Tau's warp drive is a horriable horriable mistake as it limits them to one area of the galaxy, which really does hurt narrative etc. Actually I'd have them have hijacked access to the webway somehow, giving an immediate set up for Elder vs Tau conflicts
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tneva82 wrote: Well we already wrote out primarch return and primaris out. Or rather never adopted it to preserve what we already had.
no need to write it out, just stay playing pre gathering storm.
Remove the 1000 Space marines in a chapter thing. It is a silly number.
Re-retcon the necrons. Have them serve the C'tan Star gods, be an ubstoppable force of death but also have the lords keep their quirky personalities.
Make chaos more intresting and less straight up evil. Have chaos followers be people that revel in breaking rules and showing emotions, in opposition to the Imperiums stoicm. Make chaos more neutral with a bunch of smaller "chaos empires" under diffrent types of rules. Maybe make them more freedom fighter esc and remove the chaos foccus from the marines.
Introduce a Astra Militarum equalevent chaos faction.
Have more Xeno races and chaos factions that can be mishmashed like the Imperium and the Eldar factions.
Rewrite the birth of Slaanesh to happen much much earlier. Maybe around M00.
Have the primaris marines make sense and not be an 10.000 year old project. Maybe have them be accompanied by a new primarch.
Make Lion el Jhonson a heretic and make Luther the loyalist
...probably more stuff but that's all I can think of right now
Massively reduce the importance and feats of the SM's, replacing them with litteraly anyone from the Imperium, allowing other Imperial factions to have their time in the spotlight, too. Make the Guard not seem so incompetent in people's eyes, somehow, tho that might be helped by making the SM seem less godly, and more just enhanced humans with good gear.
Bring back oldcrons, rewind the timeline to just before the 13th Black Crusade (again), make more of a deal out of Eldar gods that aren't Ynnead and tone back the suits on the Tau.
-Redo or remove the Ynnari. Maybe keep the characters, but remove Ynnari as a "faction", and simply allow the three characters to provide buffs/special rules on their own. They're a disaster and don't fit right now. Either go all-in on making an Ynnari faction or reduce it to just characters.
-Undo the majority of the Necrons...their fluff is awful and doesn't fit their aesthetic at all. I'd argue one of the worst factions at the moment for background. I'd take the original unknown menace over the current silliness.
-I agree that the 1,000 marine Chapter (even if it's 1,800-2,300 in reality) needs to go. That, or make Space Marines properly powerful. Admittedly this is all but fixed now with the idea of Primaris reinforcements, but if you're playing a pre-Primaris timeline this was a short-sighted idea when devised and put into print.
-I'd honestly rather remove Dark Eldar and replace them with proper Eldar pirates or Exodites instead...but that's not just a fluff re-write.
Deathwatch. They should still be tied to the Ordo Xenos and the Inquisition as a whole.
Primaris Marines. Instead of making them a NuMarine, make them just a new type of doctrinal unit- 'Primaris' Marines would just be Marines that can use Bolt Rifles, Plasma Incinerators, etc. and focus on a very specific role- a 'Primaris' function, rather than versatile like other Marines. Then quietly re-proportion/size all Space Marines (including CSM) to make them properly scaled.
Rewrite the Necrons to have actually chosen to turn their people into soul-less automatons in return for their mechanical immortality. Put them back to serving the C'Tan, who put the Necrons to sleep to wait for there to be enough life in the galaxy to be worth bothering to consume.
The tyranids are a bit of a foil to that plan, but the C'Tan figure they can eat Tyranids just as well as anything else, so the great galactic conflict is between Necrons and Tyranids, everything else that goes on is a sideshow in the grand scheme of things.
Adjust almost every hard number relating to the size of any and all organizations: Chapters, systems, regiments, tombworlds, cadres, etc. to give the setting a consistent scale that makes sense when compared to itself. Make the Alpha Legion mysterious again. Reconcile the Tau usage of drones with the “all AI gets corrupted by Chaos” lore. There are a lot of options.
I'd have Cawl fiddle with gene seed a little more to make the Primaris marines. I like the idea of him going full Fabius and creating a new Primarch in secret, heading the XXI legion and throwing a spanner in the works for Guilliman.
I'd change Cawl to being a persona/identity, rather than a 10K year old techpriest (it's just absurd) and reduce his acomplishments. Remove the term 'primaris'. The models can stay, just as mkIX armour and new types of weapons and doctrines that come with it. the rest of the newer fluff is ok.
I'd also removethe following models: primaris redemptor, primaris repulsor, primaris aggressors, primaris inceptors and centurions. These models just do not make sense or look rediculous to me, and are a prime example of reinventing the space marine wheel. (I'm aware it makes GW money, but it's getting out of hand).
Then, using their old fluff as a basis, build up hints of character. Not as senile crotchety robots, but as harrowingly tragic ghosts in the machine. Echoes of their consciousnesses, howling around their empty metallic shells. Some of them self-aware enough to understand what they've lost and bend what's left of their shattered intellects to scrabbling around in the crypt of their civilisation trying to undo what was done, and what few others retained anything at all are simply driven utterly insane by what shards of consciousness have clung to their bodies for 60 million years.
Get rid of the egyptian thing while you're at it too...
trindaros wrote: I'd change Cawl to being a persona/identity, rather than a 10K year old techpriest (it's just absurd) and reduce his acomplishments. Remove the term 'primaris'. The models can stay, just as mkIX armour and new types of weapons and doctrines that come with it. the rest of the newer fluff is ok.
I'd also removethe following models: primaris redemptor, primaris repulsor, primaris aggressors, primaris inceptors and centurions. These models just do not make sense or look rediculous to me, and are a prime example of reinventing the space marine wheel. (I'm aware it makes GW money, but it's getting out of hand).
I like the changes to Cawl. Out of all the characters to come out of Guilliman’s debut and the transition to 8th, Cawl is the one that rubs me the wrong way the most. Something about how his achievements are thrown around with no fleshing out of the consequences.
trindaros wrote: I'd change Cawl to being a persona/identity, rather than a 10K year old techpriest (it's just absurd) and reduce his acomplishments. Remove the term 'primaris'. The models can stay, just as mkIX armour and new types of weapons and doctrines that come with it. the rest of the newer fluff is ok.
I'd also removethe following models: primaris redemptor, primaris repulsor, primaris aggressors, primaris inceptors and centurions. These models just do not make sense or look rediculous to me, and are a prime example of reinventing the space marine wheel. (I'm aware it makes GW money, but it's getting out of hand).
I like the changes to Cawl. Out of all the characters to come out of Guilliman’s debut and the transition to 8th, Cawl is the one that rubs me the wrong way the most. Something about how his achievements are thrown around with no fleshing out of the consequences.
I agree. Having Cawl strutting around the galaxy and fixing everthing while being 10.000 years old isn't fitting. Yes, 40k is over the top crazy and grimdark, but this also deminishes the weight of characters such as Bjorn, guiliman and even the emperor himself. The Horus Heresy should remain veiled in myth and superstition in universe. Having the primarchs themselfs return is stretching that sometimes (but some of them did show up multiple times). Normally, techpriests don't get older than a few centuries or a millenia, in rare cases maby even 2000 years, in the end, they are stil mortals. The character of cawl just ignores those limitations and the struggle of the mechanicus itself to maintain functional.
I would have been really happy to finally have a mechanicus character in the spotlights, If he/she/it would have been a fitting and belivable character to the setting and background of 40K. Maby at an age of 2000ish years, mastered multiple fields of study and some crazy feats of strength under his/her/it's belt to justify fame and and atention.
Also, about the primaris, I'm ok with having more space marines fluff (again), as it's unavoidable but the fluff is weak at best and the models don't help either (but that's personal taste). I have no problems with primarchs returning, and I hope that least be one or two other loyalist primarchs return to balance out or even counter guiliman.
Personally, I like the idea of Space Marines being an actual "roughneck" force more akin to Battletech Clan warriors or Mobile Armored Infantry, or even Starcraft Marines. Less "space knight" and more "ooh-rah."
It would definitely change the overall atmosphere and the flamewars could keep things going for a really long time.
MagicJuggler wrote: Personally, I like the idea of Space Marines being an actual "roughneck" force more akin to Battletech Clan warriors or Mobile Armored Infantry, or even Starcraft Marines. Less "space knight" and more "ooh-rah."
It would definitely change the overall atmosphere and the flamewars could keep things going for a really long time.
The main serious change I would want is to make Grots/Gretchin more like WHFB Goblins, for there to be Grot Waaaghs and sneaky Gitbosses. A Grot-controlled world would be the Ferengi to the Ork's Klingon to use a lazy analogy, though they would be the ultimate capitalists of the setting.
So they'd be one part Warcraft Goblin, one part WHFB Night Goblin, one part Ferengi, perhaps one part Druuge from Star Control II.
trindaros wrote: I'd change Cawl to being a persona/identity, rather than a 10K year old techpriest (it's just absurd) and reduce his acomplishments. Remove the term 'primaris'. The models can stay, just as mkIX armour and new types of weapons and doctrines that come with it. the rest of the newer fluff is ok.
I'd also removethe following models: primaris redemptor, primaris repulsor, primaris aggressors, primaris inceptors and centurions. These models just do not make sense or look rediculous to me, and are a prime example of reinventing the space marine wheel. (I'm aware it makes GW money, but it's getting out of hand).
I like the changes to Cawl. Out of all the characters to come out of Guilliman’s debut and the transition to 8th, Cawl is the one that rubs me the wrong way the most. Something about how his achievements are thrown around with no fleshing out of the consequences.
I agree. Having Cawl strutting around the galaxy and fixing everthing while being 10.000 years old isn't fitting. Yes, 40k is over the top crazy and grimdark, but this also deminishes the weight of characters such as Bjorn, guiliman and even the emperor himself. The Horus Heresy should remain veiled in myth and superstition in universe. Having the primarchs themselfs return is stretching that sometimes (but some of them did show up multiple times). Normally, techpriests don't get older than a few centuries or a millenia, in rare cases maby even 2000 years, in the end, they are stil mortals. The character of cawl just ignores those limitations and the struggle of the mechanicus itself to maintain functional.
I would have been really happy to finally have a mechanicus character in the spotlights, If he/she/it would have been a fitting and belivable character to the setting and background of 40K. Maby at an age of 2000ish years, mastered multiple fields of study and some crazy feats of strength under his/her/it's belt to justify fame and and atention.
Also, about the primaris, I'm ok with having more space marines fluff (again), as it's unavoidable but the fluff is weak at best and the models don't help either (but that's personal taste). I have no problems with primarchs returning, and I hope that least be one or two other loyalist primarchs return to balance out or even counter guiliman.
Regarding Cawl specificly, here's an idea, what if Cawl ISN'T a person, at least not anymore, what if he's a complex AI program that is adapted into the leader of a cult of the admech, and over writes or merges with the person's personality to prioduce Cawl. Essentially a grim dark admech equivilant to an eldar Pheonix Lord.
Majorly minorly Primaris Marines
Like a yellow stream
Minorly majorly minorly heresy
What was Geedubs thinking
Oh majorly minorly majorly
The lores apart at the seams
Cicatrix Maledix quick now we need a fix
Shazzam Primaris Marines
Oh majorly minorly majorly
Rewrite the whole damn thing!
I'd probably rewrite Cawl (or have an entirely different character who has his role as "Main AdMech Protag") to be a better representative of traditional AdMech dogma: ritual worship of the machine and an extreme suspicion of innovation and alien technology. Leave the tech heresy to the hereteks.
Arachnofiend wrote: I'd probably rewrite Cawl (or have an entirely different character who has his role as "Main AdMech Protag") to be a better representative of traditional AdMech dogma: ritual worship of the machine and an extreme suspicion of innovation and alien technology. Leave the tech heresy to the hereteks.
except that kinda defeats the point of him. he's a dangerous radical Gulliman has harness to his own ends
Arachnofiend wrote: I'd probably rewrite Cawl (or have an entirely different character who has his role as "Main AdMech Protag") to be a better representative of traditional AdMech dogma: ritual worship of the machine and an extreme suspicion of innovation and alien technology. Leave the tech heresy to the hereteks.
except that kinda defeats the point of him. he's a dangerous radical Gulliman has harness to his own ends
I don't think the face of a faction should be a "dangerous radical". A character like Cawl can exist, but making him the primary AdMech character would be like making the leader of the Thousand Sons a blank.
Arachnofiend wrote: I'd probably rewrite Cawl (or have an entirely different character who has his role as "Main AdMech Protag") to be a better representative of traditional AdMech dogma: ritual worship of the machine and an extreme suspicion of innovation and alien technology. Leave the tech heresy to the hereteks.
except that kinda defeats the point of him. he's a dangerous radical Gulliman has harness to his own ends
I don't think the face of a faction should be a "dangerous radical". A character like Cawl can exist, but making him the primary AdMech character would be like making the leader of the Thousand Sons a blank.
the obvious answer to this is to give us more admech chars
-drastically reduce the importance of Space Marines
-drastically improve the importance of the Imperial Guard
-drastically increase the number of the Eldar population, otherwise they would all be dead by now given the attrition rate in war
-go back to the old Necrons
-introduce more human and alien fractions, and expand on the existing ones. They don´t have to have models. Just talk about them in fluff
-make Chaos more nuanced and varied, rather then the saturday morning cartoon villain we are being fed over and over
Tyranids need years to eat a planet, and if you put up a good enough fight they'll pack and leave because the biomass gained no longer equals the biomass expended. Right now there is no point in fighting the nids because if they are in orbit you're already dead, your whole planet will be eaten in days. Expanding the timeline out means that battles have a point.
There's something funny about the new guys... Either make the Primaris just a new mark of Marine armor, or really run with the split. Are they some sort of Eldar manchurian candidates about to enact Order 66? Are they the New and Improved who will wipe out the Old and Busted? Are they 2nd Legion kept in storage until the day they would be needed? Clones of Guilleman or some other genetic offspring? Either completely normalize them or give them a narrative reason to exist. They don't have to pull the trigger now but start foreshadowing.
This is more a rules thing but either rewrite the game so a marine army is about 10 guys (vs 100+ guard or orks) OR make it clear that the hoard armies are not 1 figure=1 guy. Maybe 1 ork model = 10 orks. And resist the urge to create Super Marines, Super Duper Marines and Super Duper Quadruper Marines.
Make an Imperial Agents army to stand between the Guard and the Marines. Fold in the Arbites, Sisters and Assasins.
Space Pirates! It's time. Hell make them all Squats too why not.
Get rid of guardians, highly advanced dying races don't field infantry hoards. Replace them with Wraith Skeletons, functionally the same thing but fragile wraithbone constructs.
Lords of Order who are just as scary as the chaos lords. Bring back Pariahs so their missions have a point other than Kill! Kill! Kill! and add Borg style cyber zombie hoards. Add plans for them to lobotomize and mentally neuter people so they cannot fuel the warp gods.
Give Dark Eldar an end game goal. Without an end game goal they just appear to be in their own little bubble of civil war that hardly interacts meaningfully with other factions.
I'd introduce more non-Imperial human factions, I think that would be interesting provided they don't turn into faction of "Rebel Alliance" good guy-types to contrast the Imperium.
An Imperial Navy landing/boarding party faction could be really cool, although I don't know what you might call them, as "marine" is already taken.
Space Pirates would also be an interesting theme to explore, they could be a non-human nomadic faction, although I suppose Eldar are already doing that.
More alien robots! Maybe they're a remnant of the Men of Iron humanity fought during the Dark Age of Technology, having survived in distant, uncharted systems far removed from the Imperium. Or they could be the automated vanguard of a long dead colonizing empire, preparing colonies and bases for settlers that will never come.
1) The rumour about the Uktramaribes avosrbu g the lost legions would be officially true.
2) I'd have every traitor legion amd the two unknown legions have official(but in universe unkown) loyalist successors with perfect reputations and records due to being funnled through absorption by the Ultras during the heresy.
3) more small Xenos empires along the eastern fringe.
4) basically all army numbers except the custodes incresed by two or three zeroes.
5) Marines operate with direct support pf chapter serfs, and explicitly its chapter serfs that crew all the vehicles. Maribes should be out doing what they do best- shock infantry. Leavethe vehicles to unaugmented humans and servitors.
Oh, this is a really cool question. I think I'd want to change most factions at least a bit, given the chance.
-Ynnari
So far, it seems like the Ynnari are the objectively right choice for Eldar. You don't have to torture people, or be a hippy, or get stuck in a stone for eternity. The Phoenix Lords are all definitely on this gak, helping them in their quest. It really only seems that these guys have left the Craftworld Eldar as a bunch of stupid hold-outs who've lost their role. I have no idea how people aren't more annoyed with them, because they've taken the Eldar's whole identity and are hands down the least grimdark faction in play, being anti-Chaos, willing to ally with the Imperium and the true saviors of the Eldar race. Personally, I'd want to do away them entirely, or at least relegate them to a far less popular more insane group, and really play up their fey aspect. Craftworld are LOTR-style Elves who might betray you for their own good, I want to see more eldritch, fey like Eldar among the Ynnari, where you can't tell what their motives are in service to their horrifying death god.
-Imperium
Oh, I'd definitely change a great deal about the Imperium. Make Space Marines far inferior and have far bigger numbers, so that it's not absurdly far from the tabletop, and so space marines getting so much focus makes sense when there's barely a million of them. I'd also have a bigger focus on the space marine auxilaries, like serf warriors and that, but they just get pushed aside in lore and legend, just like how the heliots in 300 were but on the backburner to focus on the Spartans. Once the Space Marines are dealt with, change whatever's going on with that Imperial Knight tech making the user have a feudal mindset. That's stupid. 40K is already a weird thing of fantasy and future mixed here, just have them be actually feudal societies that reverted to that style and were vassals of the Mechanicus.
Also, I want to do away with these ideas that the Imperium is necessary or a good thing. There's a lot of fluff indicating that the attrocities that the Imperium does, like its persecution of mutants and its brutal killing of heresy and things like that, are ultimately incredibly necessary and its the only way we can do things. That's stupid, the Imperium was supposed to be an awful, oppressive empire that causes half the problems it deals with. Its persecution of mutants should be why Chaos spreads so easily among them, not the other way around. Its evil actions should be awful and unnecessary, not completely justified.
-Necrons
Make Necrons easier to kill. The whole thing where they're basically indestructible and they teleport back to base seems stupid, and makes them basically undefeatable. I like their ability to remake themselves and get back up, but just make it so it's not almost impossible to destroy them. In regards to their actual background, I'm not sure. I'm not the greatest fan of the Tomb Kings in Space, but I wasn't a lover of the old fluff. I suppose I'd leave it until I've seen a better alternative to the two.
-Tyranids
Just cut down their numbers. This "If every bullet killed a 'nid, they'd still win and we'd be out of ammo!" thing is just stupid. I want the Hive Mind to be a massive, overwhelming force, but to the point where it can lose and fall back like a wounded animal, rather than it just being "We won, but there's infinite more!"
-Craftworld Eldar
Like the last two, not much I'd change here. I'd just remove Guardians, because it doesn't work with the fluff they have. Replace them with whatever works, be it weak, fragile psychically controlled drones or just strengthen other units to fill in for the lack of a spam option.
-Chaos
I'd like to see the role of the Chaos Space Marines greatly reduced, so we can get more focus on the rest of them. The Lost and the Damned are far cooler than angry space marine berserkers, but they get far less attention. I also wouldn't mind seeing a bit more focus on the good sides of Chaos, like Khornate Warriors like the Fantasy Blood Knights, with honor and going after powerful enemies. Damn, have them spare the wounded and children so they can heal/grow and have the chance to fight back in the future, for better warfare. That'd be cool. Like, not good, but less cartoonishly evil.
-Tau
I'd do a lot to the T'au, they've a lot of problems. One, they need to be massively bigger. Like, big enough that they deserve the focus they get, rather than just being a pinprick empire rivaled by the empires of single Necron Lords or Ork Warbosses. Plus, it means they can take a serious loss or two without it being apocalyptic for the Empire as a whole. Then, they need their own FTL method, be it wormhole travel or inertialess drive, something besides the Warp. You can't reconcile "Very fast at developing technology and expanding at a huge rate" with "Slowest ships in the galaxy". This at least means they have an explanation for being across the galaxy, rather than the current "The Warp did it!" explanation that robs them of their agency.
Next, change how Xenos and humans are treated in the Empire. So far, it seems to vary between "They're in paradise!" to "They're sterilized as second class citizens!" Both of these are stupid, and trying to force the T'au to be racist for the same of grimdark is awful. Seeing as the T’au have a lot of Brave New World stuff going that no one else does, that’s the kind of thing I’d like going. Humans in the T’au Empire should be brainwashed, drugged up and working. I feel this idea brings the two camps together, seeing as there’s an actual moral debate there. Is being drugged out of your head and brainwashed but really happy a sufficient thing? Is this “fake” happiness, or is happiness just brain chemicals anyway? It’s got an Orwellian, grimdark vibe to it, but it’s also something that the T’au could morally justify. “This Gue’la would’ve been killed for rebelling. We drugged and mindraped him so now he’s happy, his family still has a provider and he’s making weapons for us to save billions of lives from our enemies.”
As well as this, there's two things in the T'au military doctrine that I always found stupid. 1. The massive mechs they were got. It was said that T'au find Titans expensive and stupid, as you could use those resources for far better things. So take those out. 2. The Shas'O's are a ridiculous concept. 40K is led by frontline generals because of idiotic ideas about honor, leaders becoming more powerful fighters for factions like orks or chaos, or stuff like that. That's not the T'au. The T'au are realistic and smart. Have Shas'O be powerful leaders at the front line who are good propaganda tools, motivators, and short term planners, but just add another rank after this, like Shas'Yi, for those retired from battle who now lead as real generals do, planning doctrine from the safety of a fortified bunker.
Oh, and get rid of Farsight. Just downright, get rid of him, or just make it so he never went rogue. His role now seems to be "T'au, but even nicer!", and I've never seen the point of him, or why he's popular.
1) Tyranids cease to exist as a meaningful faction, and are reduced to being an species of exotic pet that occasionally appears in the fluff as a minor detail. All of their awful fluff is gone and we essentially never see them again.
2) Space marine fluff is adjusted to match their tabletop performance. They're heavy infantry with good equipment, not near-unkillable gods of combat that the lesser beings can only hope to learn from. This will require increasing their numbers by a few orders of magnitude, but that's fine. Never again do we hear idiotic fluff about a squad of marines conquering an entire planet.
3) The bit about the geneseed process only working on men is removed, and women can (and do) become space marines. Power armor makes strength irrelevant (the user is effectively just pushing buttons to control the suit, the armor itself provides all of the force), so who cares what the starting point is in strength/toughness/etc. Space marine recruitment is done for intelligence and skill, not raw physical ability, and throwing out 50% of the potential recruiting pool is stupid.
4) Most of the Tau giant anime robots are removed, and the Tau are restored to their original concept of being a semi-realistic faction with sensible tactics. Crisis suits and stealth suits stay, as Starship Troopers power armor that space marines can only wish they ripped off so well, but all the bigger stuff is gone. The Tau have tanks and aircraft for that, and the design factors that make power armor a good idea no longer apply to something like a Riptide. To compensate for the lost detail the Tau get some new tank designs, including a superheavy tank that is effectively a ground-based railgun Tigershark.
Rewriting the factions I have strong interest in:
(and head-to-head comparisons are made with both forces being aware and in a mix of CC and ranged fighting)
1. Space Marines
Add more 10 to 100 times more Companies to each Chapter, letting each reach around ten thousand/ a hundred thousand men each.
Serfs act as forces that accompany behind the main attack wave of the Astartes, solidifying ground - not a tabletop force perhaps, but a lore one.
Space Marines double down on their tip of the spear or pinpoint defence nature, and are not a conquering force unto themselves.
Keep them as the superpowered demigods.
Guilliman is less omnipresent, spends most of his time on Terra trying to organise the Imperium. Not often present on the battlefield, but has a massive presence when he is.
Primaris Marines are accepted by the vast majority of Chapters - very very few don't have Primaris elements in their ranks, and these are usually Chapters who are uncontactable by the Imperium.
Repulsor isn't a new innovation, just a STC fragment rediscovered.
2. Astra Militarum
All named characters are dead. They're normal humans, and none, barring Creed (who's been pokeballed) are really important enough to have stayed alive this long.
Increase all force sizes by several magnitides.
Lasguns are stronger than modern day rifles, and are very good weaponry. Everything else is just incredibly powerful.
Guardsmen are just as well trained as our modern soldiers. Conscripts are your WW1-esque troops who were shipped out with no clue.
Mixed type regiments are very rare.
Many regiments do use "modern" tactics.
Militarum Tempestus don't kill off most of their recruits in training.
Again, very tip-of-the-spear based.
As well as being Schola based, promising recruits from major recruitment worlds are also taken onto programs on those same worlds to be trained.
Each Scion is capable of taking out three times their number of Cadian/Catachan tier guardsmen and Tau, but Space Marines could take out three times their number.
3. Tau
No suits bigger than the Riptide. The Riptides are incredibly rare. Most titan-killers come in the form of Tiger Sharks.
Tau weaponry isn't a perfect foil to Space Marines. A single Astartes is a match for easily 3 Fire Warriors.
Gue'vesa are just as good as any Tau, but have more stamina, at the cost of being less responsive to threats.
Ethereals don't have mind control (except for the Vespid), but are just incredibly good orators and manipulators.
No different Tau species. Just a rigid caste system, not defined by a certain biology.
No FTL. Also lost most battles in the Damocles Gulf Crusades.
Humans born into the Empire are conditioned heavily, and fight like any other Tau. Converts are drugged up and undergo 1984-eque revisionisms of history and brainwashing.
Space Marines don't join the Tau, or are they the best outcome for Imperial citizens - unless an Ethereal shows up, who has such talent to do so.
Each Fire Warrior is capable of handling two Cadian tier Guardsmen, but are outclassed by most other forces. Crisis Suits are worth around 2-3 Space Marines.
Farsight's Tau are reduced to raiding the Tau more actively. There's no friendliness between his Tau and those of the main Empire.
Aun'Va doesn't have his replacements after his death.
Shadowsun doesn't kill the Chapter Master of the Raven Guard - instead, a Captain.
The 4 part Assassin team don't die in the Kauyon/Mont'ka set - they only set out to kill Aun'Va, and succeed.
4. Imperial Knights
Mixed gender.
5. Grey Knights
Incorruptible by Chaos and psychic power. Their minds are impregnable to the touch of the Warp.
Still few in number.
Remove the Bloodtide.
Put someone else as the Supreme Grand Master. Have Draigo as a lost one, who is trapped in the Warp (a la Sisyphus). Grey Knights will attempt to summon him in their greatest battles (no random appearing), but he can never stay. Each breach of realspace to warp fractures his psyche further and further.
Grey Knights are of a slightly lower power level to Custodes, but can easily match 3 times their number of normal Astartes.
Still derived from the Emperor's own modified gene-stock.
Sasori wrote: I'm really surprised here at all the people calling for the Oldcron fluff.
The new fluff is so much better. The oldcrons were devoid of personality, they were simply metal tyranids. I enjoy the new fluff so much better.
Newcrons are just silly, samey and boring.
Oldcrons were great. A mysterious ancient horror, ancient evil gods creating a cycle of harvesting life, Imperial governors being replaced by the Deciever. They weren't metal Tyranids at all.
They are now - female pilots and even households are led by women in official campaigns (eg Fall of Cadia) as well as in Black Library novels.
Yeah - I just still want in the next Knight "codex" (if they'll get one of their own) to repeat that point - I wasn't impressed by only males being eligible.
They are now - female pilots and even households are led by women in official campaigns (eg Fall of Cadia) as well as in Black Library novels.
Yeah - I just still want in the next Knight "codex" (if they'll get one of their own) to repeat that point - I wasn't impressed by only males being eligible.
Thank god there is at least one good suggestion in this thread! Although I do like the idea of grots getting more camera time...
Waaargh The Orks wrote:"Mornin' Makari," said Lansig pleasantly. His voice was surprisingly deep for a Gretchin, almost Orkish. It added to the air of authority around his pug-nosed face. "You've been a naughty boy. A word in yer ear..."
Makari wasn't fooled by the way Lansig dressed like a wealthy merchant. The wiry muscles and the unusually powerful build marked him out as a mobster, one of the strong ones that preyed on the Gretchin entrepreneurs in the market square. And Makari hadn't been paying him his cut.
"I've 'ad a bad week, boss," grovelled Makari, "Fat Glub raided me mushroom patch an' took away all da best ones. Useless git, ate 'em 'isself too. Hope 'e's stick as a drunk Ork."
Makari tried to ease himself into the crowd but he felt himself grabbed by Ari and Ari. As he felt their strong grips and looked into their evil faces, Makari became afraid. Lansig leaned forward and picked up one of the toadstools. He wrinkled his nose in distaste. Then he lifted Monti and stroked the squig's back with his long, strangler's fingers.
"See wot yer mean. Still, biz is biz. If yer don't 'ave ten teef fer me by nightfall...Ari'll 'ave ter do a bit ov extraction."
Big Ari held him in place while Little Ari held dental pliers underneath his nose. Lansig put Monti back on the tray. A passing Ork laughed at this sign of Gretchin high spirits. The Gretchin joined in fawningly.
So anything that definitely puts them in a larger spotlight or expands in detail on the nature of Orkonomics besides "dey use teef" would be great.
Remove the 1000 Space marines in a chapter thing. It is a silly number.
Re-retcon the necrons. Have them serve the C'tan Star gods, be an ubstoppable force of death but also have the lords keep their quirky personalities.
Make chaos more intresting and less straight up evil. Have chaos followers be people that revel in breaking rules and showing emotions, in opposition to the Imperiums stoicm. Make chaos more neutral with a bunch of smaller "chaos empires" under diffrent types of rules. Maybe make them more freedom fighter esc and remove the chaos foccus from the marines.
Introduce a Astra Militarum equalevent chaos faction.
Have more Xeno races and chaos factions that can be mishmashed like the Imperium and the Eldar factions.
Rewrite the birth of Slaanesh to happen much much earlier. Maybe around M00.
Have the primaris marines make sense and not be an 10.000 year old project. Maybe have them be accompanied by a new primarch.
Make Lion el Jhonson a heretic and make Luther the loyalist
...probably more stuff but that's all I can think of right now
Wow, these are literally my first thoughts I mean, I really do like CSM especially the Traitor legions. But I liked their old fluff more where they were more or less reasonable. The Chaos gods right now seem quite one-sided. I really like the Death Guard, but the Codex is too much about deseases, tentacles and throwing poo when it should be about apathy, despair and the circle of life.
Make chaos more intresting and less straight up evil. Have chaos followers be people that revel in breaking rules and showing emotions, in opposition to the Imperiums stoicm. Make chaos more neutral with a bunch of smaller "chaos empires" under diffrent types of rules. Maybe make them more freedom fighter esc and remove the chaos foccus from the marines.
Introduce a Astra Militarum equalevent chaos faction.
But...that's exactly what Chaos is today. We even have blood pact / renegade / militia.
I'd do the best I could to streamline and make feasible the idea of loyalist Thousand Sons to keep that beautiful paint scheme and chapter organization in 40k.
I would like more of an emphasis on the art style of Necrons being "Egyptian". I know that they are already quite Egyptian, but perhaps a little bit more colour and personality in the units. Anything is
better than... What we have now, respectively.
And by that I mean a huge revision for EVERYTHING NECRON.
Scarabs? Change them.
Monolith? More decorations please.
Immortals? Change them.
Do we have Necron psykers in green hoods and robes?
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Give Dark Eldar an end game goal. Without an end game goal they just appear to be in their own little bubble of civil war that hardly interacts meaningfully with other factions.
Up until Rising Storm they had achieved their endgame. They had guaranteed protection against the predations of She-Who-Thirsts as long as the galaxy remains raid-able. They had a safe haven to retreat to. They had near-immortality for their leaders and a relatively stable hierarchy under Vect. They had worked out the majority of their differences with their more boring kin. They weren’t at five minutes to midnight, they were smooth sailing.
Lords of Order who are just as scary as the chaos lords. Bring back Pariahs so their missions have a point other than Kill! Kill! Kill! and add Borg style cyber zombie hoards. Add plans for them to lobotomize and mentally neuter people so they cannot fuel the warp gods.
I can already see silent back alley fights between alpha legion operatives and legionnaires duking it out with specially modified lychguard and immortals
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote: -Necrons
Make Necrons easier to kill. The whole thing where they're basically indestructible and they teleport back to base seems stupid, and makes them basically undefeatable. I like their ability to remake themselves and get back up, but just make it so it's not almost impossible to destroy them. In regards to their actual background, I'm not sure. I'm not the greatest fan of the Tomb Kings in Space, but I wasn't a lover of the old fluff. I suppose I'd leave it until I've seen a better alternative to the two.
Saying Necrons should be easier to kill is like saying Imperial Guard should have fewer dudes.
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote: -Necrons
Make Necrons easier to kill. The whole thing where they're basically indestructible and they teleport back to base seems stupid, and makes them basically undefeatable. I like their ability to remake themselves and get back up, but just make it so it's not almost impossible to destroy them. In regards to their actual background, I'm not sure. I'm not the greatest fan of the Tomb Kings in Space, but I wasn't a lover of the old fluff. I suppose I'd leave it until I've seen a better alternative to the two.
Well, if I understand correctly Necrons require energy and some resources to repair themselves. It does take time to get them back online and operational. Not to mention, they can teleport back to base all they like- that's why you blow their base up.
Keep in mind, Necrons aren't making baby Skelebots, so their numbers are finite.
Delete 90% of the Wolfy Wolf Wolf nonsense - the riding wolves, the Wolf everything.
I always thought it would be cooler if the wolves weren't cavalry units but just attack dogs. Imagine a unit comprised of a few giant wolves being controlled by a Space Wolf with way too many scars and replaced limbs.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Give Dark Eldar an end game goal. Without an end game goal they just appear to be in their own little bubble of civil war that hardly interacts meaningfully with other factions.
Up until Rising Storm they had achieved their endgame. They had guaranteed protection against the predations of She-Who-Thirsts as long as the galaxy remains raid-able. They had a safe haven to retreat to. They had near-immortality for their leaders and a relatively stable hierarchy under Vect. They had worked out the majority of their differences with their more boring kin. They weren’t at five minutes to midnight, they were smooth sailing.
That was...kinda my point? Smooth sailing is boring. Having a city that is unassailable by the normal threats to the galaxy is boring. Vect being on top all the time with only Malys as the opposition is boring. They layed some cool ground work with the Mandrakes and the 'Shadow-realm' which Mr K released, but not heard anything since. The Harlequin aspect of Lady Malys being played up is also quite fun.
But Commarragh as a whole in the newest book is bland. No Baron, No Duke, No interaction with significant outside races.
There's no reason women cannot be Space Marines, Primaris or Custodeus except for tradition and Imperial sexism. But like Israel and other countries they are learning that sexism is a luxury you can't afford when there are enemies at every side. You can't cut off half your recruiting pool when it take decades to make one soldier. So whatever practical problems there were are quickly overcome.
Peregrine wrote: 1) Tyranids cease to exist as a meaningful faction, and are reduced to being an species of exotic pet that occasionally appears in the fluff as a minor detail. All of their awful fluff is gone and we essentially never see them again.
Make chaos more intresting and less straight up evil. Have chaos followers be people that revel in breaking rules and showing emotions, in opposition to the Imperiums stoicm. Make chaos more neutral with a bunch of smaller "chaos empires" under diffrent types of rules. Maybe make them more freedom fighter esc and remove the chaos foccus from the marines.
Introduce a Astra Militarum equalevent chaos faction.
But...that's exactly what Chaos is today. We even have blood pact / renegade / militia.
Ah yes, the renegades of the sabbat worlds. Are they the ones featured as the gaunts ghosts chaos rivals? I havn't read much of the Gaunts books myself. Of course there's several renegade guards, cultists and rebels around the imperium. Including cultists in the codex is a step in the right direction. What I'm talking about is something diffrent though. More of a chaos guard faction. Similar to the 3rd editions eye of terror "lost and the damned", but expanded upon. What I'd like to see is a non astartes hierarchy of various chaos sorcerers and warlords travelling to worlds, eslaving/recruiting armies and making both offensive and defensive wars against the Imperium. Not just guards going renegade but actually fully chaos forces fighting tooth and nail to preserve their way of life against the Imperiums dogma. Maybe serving a particular demonic deity, maybe one of the gods, maybe serving a space marine or trying to become top dog. Have chaos travel from various deamon worlds and recruit chaos populations, mutants and deamons. Have them include corrupted xeno races and AI half chaos/half machine robots. The potential for models and lore are great. Think of it more as a full non astartes mortal chaos faction rather then the imperials turned rouge.Think of the military supplying worlds more as city states with their own agendas, insanity and quirks. Given the Cicatrix Maledictum the number of human/xeno populated chaos worlds should be enormous.
1) Make Lion the heretic and Luther the loyalist. This is the terrible secret that DAs are guarding. DA would remain a loyalist faction.
2) Make Alpha Legion unaligned. Give them a non-mutated human primarch.
3) Retcon away the sucessor chapters. All nine chapters are legion strength.
4) Merge Craftworlds and Ynnari. Giving the Eldar goals, and optimism and a will to win is the best thing that has happened to Eldar. It makes no sense to keep the Craftworlds as grumpy holdouts.
5) Retcon away all primaris fluff. All marines should have the Primaris statline, and the Primaris models are simply a newer model range, with a name that it is easier to trademark. All space marines were always primaris marines
6) Tone down Space Wolfes and then tone them down some more. There is nothing wrong with them as such, the WolfyMcWulfen theme has just been painted on WAY to thickly. But do keep the Logan Grimnar sleighride, as Santa Claws will always be such a hilarious joke.
7) Keep the newcrons fluff, it is much better than the oldcrons. Also, the old C'tan were totally ridiculous on the tabletop.
8) Introduce a non-imperial, non-chaos human faction. Maybe even split the empire in two. GW almost managed to make a third human side with the renegades, but the renegade space marines turned out to be just Chaos Space Marines. Booooring.
9) Make update sprues for Lizardmen so that they can serve as Slann allies for Orks and Eldar.
10) Make the gretchin into space-goblins, not just Ork cannon-fodder. Give them their own bosses and shamans WFB style.
11) More humor and less Grimdark overall
12) Awaken the emperor and let him marry Yvraine. They will will have 18 children, each growing up to be a mighty warlord.
13) Bring back Tuska Daemon killa. He rides out of the Eye on Terror on a tamed and cowed bloodthister. He then assembles a mighty WAAARGH against Chaos. A new warcry is bellowed by a hundred thousand greenskins: "Korne is sucha pansy."
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote: -Ynnari
So far, it seems like the Ynnari are the objectively right choice for Eldar. You don't have to torture people, or be a hippy, or get stuck in a stone for eternity. The Phoenix Lords are all definitely on this gak, helping them in their quest. It really only seems that these guys have left the Craftworld Eldar as a bunch of stupid hold-outs who've lost their role. I have no idea how people aren't more annoyed with them, because they've taken the Eldar's whole identity and are hands down the least grimdark faction in play, being anti-Chaos, willing to ally with the Imperium and the true saviors of the Eldar race. Personally, I'd want to do away them entirely, or at least relegate them to a far less popular more insane group, and really play up their fey aspect. Craftworld are LOTR-style Elves who might betray you for their own good, I want to see more eldritch, fey like Eldar among the Ynnari, where you can't tell what their motives are in service to their horrifying death god.
Ynnari are only the best choice and the savior of the Eldar if you believe in what they tell you. But Ynnead was only supposed to be strong enough to kill Slaneesh once all the Eldar were dead, which might be its actual end-goal. At the moment, it's an incomplete god of death with Slaneeshi features that feeds on Eldar souls. That's not really what you want as a savior.
We still don't really know what the Ynnari will become. If they end up doing sketchy things (like causing Eldar deaths to feed Ynnead, or worse, feed the Ynnari soldiers to win a battle) this could add a lot of complexity to their faction, and create a lot more tension with other Eldars. The Ynnari have to become a group of fanatics that believe in saving the other Eldar against their will (with lots of potential death in the process), while still gaining enough battles/fulfilling enough prophecies so there's still a possibility that they're right.
In other words, at this point I wouldn't retcon the Ynnari fluff, since it still has potential to become pretty good. However, if it's just a gimmick to create a "Imperium and friends against Chaos" thing, then they should definitely write it off. There was a truce in Gathering Storm, and they helped Gulliman's return, but now it's time for some good backstabbing and revelations that they poisoned the well when they gave a helping hand.
SirStudent wrote: I would like more of an emphasis on the art style of Necrons being "Egyptian". I know that they are already quite Egyptian, but perhaps a little bit more colour and personality in the units. Anything is better than... What we have now, respectively.
And by that I mean a huge revision for EVERYTHING NECRON.
Scarabs? Change them. Monolith? More decorations please. Immortals? Change them.
Do we have Necron psykers in green hoods and robes?
I don't think so. Make it happen!
No. Necrons don't have psykers because they lack souls and hate the warp. That is a part of their lore. Suddenly giving them psychic powers would be dumb and completely change their feel, making them seem more like Eldar as a consequence. Also, necrons need to be less egyptian, not more. They were more interesting when they took influence from different cultural perspectives of death rather than "lol, tomb kings in space" The monoliths and scarabs were inspired by the egyptian mortuary cult, the nightbringer, tomb spyder and the wraiths were inspired by western horror that pertains to the grave (dunno if there's a specific word for that. Cthonic horror, I guess?), the flayed ones were inspired by an Aztec death cult, etc.
Everyone says 'diminish the importance of Space Marines' because of the tabletop...
...I wouldn't do that. I'd say that the gene-seed and processes are breaking down. Marines from the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy would be more like Primaris Marines- big, tough, scary compared to a mortal... And Guilliman's own word authorized the Mechanicus to break out old stores of Gene-seed, more pure samples.
It would add that element of 'Grimdark'- up until recently, Space Marines were a dying breed, and even then were diminishing in their capability. Humanity's 'guardian angels' were on the verge of extinction and weakening.
See, right now, they're all somewhat BLARG GRIBBLE KILLKILL. Which is fairly two dimensional, if not one dimensional in approach.
Contrast and compare with how Chaos is portrayed in The Mortal Realms. Yes, they still have their fruitloops, in the rank and file. But those who ascend beyond that are well developed, round characters. They have motivations beyond 'make god smile'. They have interactions beyond 'Stoopid *insert other god*'.
Make Chaos a properly credible threat. Whilst they'll always lack the sheer resources of The Imperium, they're not hidebound by the Codex Astartes. They've had millennia (well, some have. Some longer, some shorter) to get damned good at what they do. Make them more insidious - play up the Cult side, with the Legionnaires being the seriously heavy hitters. Portray Cults as a rightful threat in their own place - not just meatshields for uncaring masters.
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote: -Ynnari
So far, it seems like the Ynnari are the objectively right choice for Eldar. You don't have to torture people, or be a hippy, or get stuck in a stone for eternity. The Phoenix Lords are all definitely on this gak, helping them in their quest. It really only seems that these guys have left the Craftworld Eldar as a bunch of stupid hold-outs who've lost their role. I have no idea how people aren't more annoyed with them, because they've taken the Eldar's whole identity and are hands down the least grimdark faction in play, being anti-Chaos, willing to ally with the Imperium and the true saviors of the Eldar race. Personally, I'd want to do away them entirely, or at least relegate them to a far less popular more insane group, and really play up their fey aspect. Craftworld are LOTR-style Elves who might betray you for their own good, I want to see more eldritch, fey like Eldar among the Ynnari, where you can't tell what their motives are in service to their horrifying death god.
Ynnari are only the best choice and the savior of the Eldar if you believe in what they tell you. But Ynnead was only supposed to be strong enough to kill Slaneesh once all the Eldar were dead, which might be its actual end-goal. At the moment, it's an incomplete god of death with Slaneeshi features that feeds on Eldar souls. That's not really what you want as a savior.
We still don't really know what the Ynnari will become. If they end up doing sketchy things (like causing Eldar deaths to feed Ynnead, or worse, feed the Ynnari soldiers to win a battle) this could add a lot of complexity to their faction, and create a lot more tension with other Eldars. The Ynnari have to become a group of fanatics that believe in saving the other Eldar against their will (with lots of potential death in the process), while still gaining enough battles/fulfilling enough prophecies so there's still a possibility that they're right.
In other words, at this point I wouldn't retcon the Ynnari fluff, since it still has potential to become pretty good. However, if it's just a gimmick to create a "Imperium and friends against Chaos" thing, then they should definitely write it off. There was a truce in Gathering Storm, and they helped Gulliman's return, but now it's time for some good backstabbing and revelations that they poisoned the well when they gave a helping hand.
The problem is GW just ignore other things to do with Eldar. Yriel saw a vision of an empowered version of himself butchering Daemons, the Rhana Dandra was supposed to kill Chaos, the Flame of Asuryan was relit, the Phoenix Lords go around doing Asuryans will. There's so much opportunity to have Khaine or Asuryan or Isha influence Eldar but everything is about Ynnead now which I find terrible because the Ynnari are a pretty lame 'saviour'.
You spend your afterlife enslaved to someone nearby who does what they like with your knowledge and power.
I find it odd. do people really not like the newer necron fluff?
I mean do we really need another mindless group of kill all living things for reason faction?
thats kinda what the nids and kinda what the orks do.
i like that they have a wee bit of personality.
though i do not like where their model line when. ( i liked it when all their vehicles were boxy and monolithy instead of these big open tomb kings in space thing.
I was never a Necron player, but would love to see the Crypteks have their old "schools" of technology back, like the ethermancer- or geomancer-focused ones.
SirStudent wrote: I would like more of an emphasis on the art style of Necrons being "Egyptian". I know that they are already quite Egyptian, but perhaps a little bit more colour and personality in the units. Anything is
better than... What we have now, respectively.
And by that I mean a huge revision for EVERYTHING NECRON.
Scarabs? Change them.
Monolith? More decorations please.
Immortals? Change them.
Do we have Necron psykers in green hoods and robes?
I don't think so. Make it happen!
No. Necrons don't have psykers because they lack souls and hate the warp. That is a part of their lore. Suddenly giving them psychic powers would be dumb and completely change their feel, making them seem more like Eldar as a consequence.
Also, necrons need to be less egyptian, not more. They were more interesting when they took influence from different cultural perspectives of death rather than "lol, tomb kings in space"
The monoliths and scarabs were inspired by the egyptian mortuary cult, the nightbringer, tomb spyder and the wraiths were inspired by western horror that pertains to the grave (dunno if there's a specific word for that. Cthonic horror, I guess?), the flayed ones were inspired by an Aztec death cult, etc.
The problem is that I cannot see those inspirations due to how bland the units are. Taking out the psyker part, I still think there needs to be some revision to aesthetic design, because there is mainly a problem of them all being mostly one design (minus the vehicles which I can give the slip). YMMV, you might like it or not like it, but I just feel it could be handled better, even if they were to add, I dunno "night optics" or some small attachment to spice warriors up.
SirStudent wrote: I would like more of an emphasis on the art style of Necrons being "Egyptian". I know that they are already quite Egyptian, but perhaps a little bit more colour and personality in the units. Anything is better than... What we have now, respectively.
And by that I mean a huge revision for EVERYTHING NECRON.
Scarabs? Change them. Monolith? More decorations please. Immortals? Change them.
Do we have Necron psykers in green hoods and robes?
I don't think so. Make it happen!
No. Necrons don't have psykers because they lack souls and hate the warp. That is a part of their lore. Suddenly giving them psychic powers would be dumb and completely change their feel, making them seem more like Eldar as a consequence. Also, necrons need to be less egyptian, not more. They were more interesting when they took influence from different cultural perspectives of death rather than "lol, tomb kings in space" The monoliths and scarabs were inspired by the egyptian mortuary cult, the nightbringer, tomb spyder and the wraiths were inspired by western horror that pertains to the grave (dunno if there's a specific word for that. Cthonic horror, I guess?), the flayed ones were inspired by an Aztec death cult, etc.
The problem is that I cannot see those inspirations due to how bland the units are. Taking out the psyker part, I still think there needs to be some revision to aesthetic design, because there is mainly a problem of them all being mostly one design (minus the vehicles which I can give the slip). YMMV, you might like it or not like it, but I just feel it could be handled better, even if they were to add, I dunno "night optics" or some small attachment to spice warriors up.
The fact that the flayed ones are draped in skins, just as the priests of Xipe Xotec were, is a pretty big clue The nightbringer being the grim reaper is pretty self explanatory. But yes, I see your point. A few details wouldn't hurt, as long as GW doesn't over do it and just clutter the models with stuff. Or they add stupid crap to the model like those crests and loin cloths on the lychguard. I find the new cryptek, with it's hood sort of thing, to look much better than the finecast model's bonnet.
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote: -Necrons
Make Necrons easier to kill. The whole thing where they're basically indestructible and they teleport back to base seems stupid, and makes them basically undefeatable. I like their ability to remake themselves and get back up, but just make it so it's not almost impossible to destroy them. In regards to their actual background, I'm not sure. I'm not the greatest fan of the Tomb Kings in Space, but I wasn't a lover of the old fluff. I suppose I'd leave it until I've seen a better alternative to the two.
Saying Necrons should be easier to kill is like saying Imperial Guard should have fewer dudes.
It's not like it would have any change on actually fighting them. It's just this "Necrons almost never die, they just get rebuilt" makes them a ridiculous enemy, especially seeing as they once ruled the galaxy and have massive numbers that just haven't woken up yet. If the Imperial Guard had numbers AND their troops were almost never killed that'd seem ridiculous, but Necrons seem to get both, to the point where they can't really ever lose. "Oh, my entire army was destroyed attacking the enemy base? No bother, they're being remade now!"
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote: -Necrons
Make Necrons easier to kill. The whole thing where they're basically indestructible and they teleport back to base seems stupid, and makes them basically undefeatable. I like their ability to remake themselves and get back up, but just make it so it's not almost impossible to destroy them. In regards to their actual background, I'm not sure. I'm not the greatest fan of the Tomb Kings in Space, but I wasn't a lover of the old fluff. I suppose I'd leave it until I've seen a better alternative to the two.
Well, if I understand correctly Necrons require energy and some resources to repair themselves. It does take time to get them back online and operational. Not to mention, they can teleport back to base all they like- that's why you blow their base up.
Keep in mind, Necrons aren't making baby Skelebots, so their numbers are finite.
Yeah, but the Necrons are growing in numbers seeing as more and more wake up every day, and given that they once ruled a galaxy, that leaves a lot of them. I get that Necrons probably require a fair bit of energy and that to repair themselves, but it's not like they're lacking in that in any meaningful way. I just think it's silly that a huge Necron army can attack, be wiped out to the last man, and it's an utterly meaningless victory that's accomplished nothing.
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote: -Ynnari
So far, it seems like the Ynnari are the objectively right choice for Eldar. You don't have to torture people, or be a hippy, or get stuck in a stone for eternity. The Phoenix Lords are all definitely on this gak, helping them in their quest. It really only seems that these guys have left the Craftworld Eldar as a bunch of stupid hold-outs who've lost their role. I have no idea how people aren't more annoyed with them, because they've taken the Eldar's whole identity and are hands down the least grimdark faction in play, being anti-Chaos, willing to ally with the Imperium and the true saviors of the Eldar race. Personally, I'd want to do away them entirely, or at least relegate them to a far less popular more insane group, and really play up their fey aspect. Craftworld are LOTR-style Elves who might betray you for their own good, I want to see more eldritch, fey like Eldar among the Ynnari, where you can't tell what their motives are in service to their horrifying death god.
Ynnari are only the best choice and the savior of the Eldar if you believe in what they tell you. But Ynnead was only supposed to be strong enough to kill Slaneesh once all the Eldar were dead, which might be its actual end-goal. At the moment, it's an incomplete god of death with Slaneeshi features that feeds on Eldar souls. That's not really what you want as a savior.
We still don't really know what the Ynnari will become. If they end up doing sketchy things (like causing Eldar deaths to feed Ynnead, or worse, feed the Ynnari soldiers to win a battle) this could add a lot of complexity to their faction, and create a lot more tension with other Eldars. The Ynnari have to become a group of fanatics that believe in saving the other Eldar against their will (with lots of potential death in the process), while still gaining enough battles/fulfilling enough prophecies so there's still a possibility that they're right.
In other words, at this point I wouldn't retcon the Ynnari fluff, since it still has potential to become pretty good. However, if it's just a gimmick to create a "Imperium and friends against Chaos" thing, then they should definitely write it off. There was a truce in Gathering Storm, and they helped Gulliman's return, but now it's time for some good backstabbing and revelations that they poisoned the well when they gave a helping hand.
It's fair to say that the Ynnari MIGHT become something cool, sure, but just from what I've seen, I don't think it looks like it's going that way. The Phoenix Lords and Ulthran both seem to have thrown their lot in with the Ynnari, while the Craftworld don't seem to have any other path to salvation they're advocating, just kind of continuing the slow march to non-existence. I'd love it if the Ynnari become a bit sketchier and less good, sure, but I doubt it. Here's hoping, though.
tneva82 wrote: Well we already wrote out primarch return and primaris out. Or rather never adopted it to preserve what we already had.
no need to write it out, just stay playing pre gathering storm.
Ummm seeing we have advanced well past gathering storm timeline how you suggest what we have would not go "poof" by playing suddenly few hundreds year in the past?-)
Desubot wrote: I find it odd. do people really not like the newer necron fluff?
I mean do we really need another mindless group of kill all living things for reason faction?
thats kinda what the nids and kinda what the orks do.
i like that they have a wee bit of personality.
though i do not like where their model line when. ( i liked it when all their vehicles were boxy and monolithy instead of these big open tomb kings in space thing.
Also second on the voluntary primaris upgrade.
Newcrons are even more generic. They want to take over planets. See the Imperium, Tau, Chaos and Orks.
Before they were a cool unknowable horror that viewed the galaxy as cattle.Tragically turned into slaves.
Now they just have silly characters, boring motives and background that makes them unlikable.
Primaris marines are simply space marines trained under guilliman's new vision for the organization of the astartes. (codex astartes 2.0)
The overall structure of chapters, companies and squads will change to better suit the realities of the universe. He creates the Primaris Legions 100,000 strong created from existing chapters but still undermanned due to the lack of gene-seed.
The primaris initiative was a research project undertaken by Cawl to improve the efficiency of the gene-seed implantation so as to reduce the chance of rejection and wasted resources. In addition, he has created new marks of armor and weapons to distribute to existing chapters and the new legions.
The drastic changes will take time to implement and many chapters will continue their fight under the old structure. Not to mention there are many who outright oppose the reforms...
All marines get 2W and 2A, and terminators get 3W.
Primaris marines are simply space marines trained under guilliman's new vision for the organization of the astartes. (codex astartes 2.0)
The overall structure of chapters, companies and squads will change to better suit the realities of the universe. He creates the Primaris Legions 100,000 strong created from existing chapters but still undermanned due to the lack of gene-seed.
The primaris initiative was a research project undertaken by Cawl to improve the efficiency of the gene-seed implantation so as to reduce the chance of rejection and wasted resources. In addition, he has created new marks of armor and weapons to distribute to existing chapters and the new legions.
The drastic changes will take time to implement and many chapters will continue their fight under the old structure. Not to mention there are many who outright oppose the reforms...
All marines get 2W and 2A, and terminators get 3W.
Might need some tweaking but that's the gist.
My version: there are no primaris marines. Just new models, and more fluffy statlines.
Well, bigger better primaris aren't a thing in my version. They are just marines trained differently. Which is where the difference between say tacticals and intercessors comes in. The armor is updated thanks to cawl, but is just cosmetic as far as rules go. So "primaris" marines just become regular marines with new squad configurations.] (intercessor, hellblasters, inceptors...). This let's all marines get the 2W and 2A while keeping the new kits relevant.
Thank god there is at least one good suggestion in this thread! Although I do like the idea of grots getting more camera time...
Waaargh The Orks wrote:"Mornin' Makari," said Lansig pleasantly. His voice was surprisingly deep for a Gretchin, almost Orkish. It added to the air of authority around his pug-nosed face. "You've been a naughty boy. A word in yer ear..."
Makari wasn't fooled by the way Lansig dressed like a wealthy merchant. The wiry muscles and the unusually powerful build marked him out as a mobster, one of the strong ones that preyed on the Gretchin entrepreneurs in the market square. And Makari hadn't been paying him his cut.
"I've 'ad a bad week, boss," grovelled Makari, "Fat Glub raided me mushroom patch an' took away all da best ones. Useless git, ate 'em 'isself too. Hope 'e's stick as a drunk Ork."
Makari tried to ease himself into the crowd but he felt himself grabbed by Ari and Ari. As he felt their strong grips and looked into their evil faces, Makari became afraid. Lansig leaned forward and picked up one of the toadstools. He wrinkled his nose in distaste. Then he lifted Monti and stroked the squig's back with his long, strangler's fingers.
"See wot yer mean. Still, biz is biz. If yer don't 'ave ten teef fer me by nightfall...Ari'll 'ave ter do a bit ov extraction."
Big Ari held him in place while Little Ari held dental pliers underneath his nose. Lansig put Monti back on the tray. A passing Ork laughed at this sign of Gretchin high spirits. The Gretchin joined in fawningly.
So anything that definitely puts them in a larger spotlight or expands in detail on the nature of Orkonomics besides "dey use teef" would be great.
Waargh da Orks is great, I know it is available on scribd but I would love it if they did a reprint so that I could have it as a proper book.
Is this the Makari of Ghazgull bottom fame do you think? That would be cool.
-Get ride of Primaris as "Marines but better!" Just have it be newer armor that's all.
-I would change some of the Thousand Sons fluff to have had a faction of the off world TS during the heresy follow the loyal shard of Magnus that helped form the Grey Knights.
1. Revert Tau back to before Riptides. Instead expand on their xenos allies and Kroot!
2. Burn any and everything with the word 'Primaris'. Cawl has thousands of Legionairies in stasis but his project failed so he just made some new armor and defrosted thousands of 31k era marines for G-man.
3. Go even further with the Wolf-McWolfy-ness of space wolves. Make it so laughably bad that everyone points and laughs at spacewolves. (Okay that is mean, just go back and have all Space Wolves turn to wulfen as soon as Russ disappears and his legion is put down by the DA just like Russ did to Magnus.)
4. Return Necrons to the scary unrelatbale robot horde.
Return Failbaddon. Liked him better when he was 'one who never stopped trying' instead of ' planned it all from beginning' (but keep the Rift and The FastForward)
Nerf CW Eldar - in fluff they're too omnipresent and influental for pitiful delusional remnants of broken and dying race. Maybe give them some major hybridization conspiracy of trying to reborn via humanity though - to capitalize on 'elven changeling' legends (and to justify some half-Eldar Librarians ).
Rework Tau to expand Xenology's theory of mind-controllers, then give 'em some MAJOR, bitter and lasting defeat in their backyard.
Erase Draigo fluff (or make him puppet of some Chaos God).
Give some generic power-armoured units to non-SM/SoB Imperial factions.
Subtly show hints that 'pure and untainted' baseline Imperial Humans are not exactly current Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
Rework Tau to expand Xenology's theory of mind-controllers, then give 'em some MAJOR, bitter and lasting defeat in their backyard.
Subtly show hints that 'pure and untainted' baseline Imperial Humans are not exactly current Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
On the first, you need to read the 8th BRB. I'm expecting it to be expounded on in the upcoming codex, but the 4th expansion didn't go so well.
On the second, there is a great moment that hints at this in one of the Black Library books. The Imperial Crusade shows up, is rejected by the inhabitants because of the deviations in their DNA versus pre-space expansion humanity. This pisses the Imperium off and they wipe them out. Anyone remember which book it was in?
Didn't the 4th just vanish? That's not bitter because not much happened and not lasting because they just launched another expansion almost immediately.
pm713 wrote: Didn't the 4th just vanish? That's not bitter because not much happened and not lasting because they just launched another expansion almost immediately.
Some got warped teleported to the northern part of the imperium. The rest seemed to have burned up when the Damocles caught on fire.
*allows for the traditional moment to contemplate the void of space catching on fire*
You might be right about the bitter. The only bitter tau seem to be the farsight enclave and they have a complicated set of emotions about the rest of the Tau.
Desubot wrote: I find it odd. do people really not like the newer necron fluff?
I mean do we really need another mindless group of kill all living things for reason faction?
thats kinda what the nids and kinda what the orks do.
i like that they have a wee bit of personality.
I would've kept necrons as unknowable aliens with their goals, numbers and exact capabilities completely in the dark. They and tyranids would both do the whole alien horror schtick but tyranids would be on the more animalistic and predictable side while the necrons would make you doubt the laws of physics.
All the humanisation the necrons got would instead go to the orks. The nearly mindlessly aggressive ork would be recognised as a Goff archetype and orks as a whole as the result of a superweapon breaking down for millions of years, thus you could really open up for more mercenary or unaligned orks. The Imperium's big rival on a galactic scale would be the collection of ork empires known as Orkdom. There's little point to a warrior prophet like Ghazghkull if the baseline activity of every ork is eternal war. There's little point to having an ork clan known specifically for its warlike inclinations when that's already what every ork is like. I want a great mass of orks that find a satisfactory outlet for their combative nature in wrestling or racing that can just happen to be pulled along by the more militant elements of their society. A lot of orks shouldn't care whether they get their fill of adrenaline, bruises and loud noise from firing a gun or from driving a jet-powered boat. Goffs care and that would make them a big driving force behind the various wars with the Imperium but Goffs shouldn't be the defining clan of the species.
A bit of a gripe on necron vehicles - they don't make much sense. I mean, you have a race of aliens obsessed with self preservation, and they give their military vehicles big gaping weak points that are just asking to be shot? I don't care if they have high-tech shielding, that is dumb and is not consistent behavior at all for a race who really doesn't want to die.
I would amend it that the 5th ed vehicles we see are actually re-purposed civilian vehicles at the time of the war in heaven, and the so called "high-tech" quantum shielding we see is actually considered to be pretty unreliable and primitive by necron standards and was strapped on at the last minute to make the vehicle combat ready. After the War in Heaven they still use the vehicles as is, because they don't see the logic in reinforcing a civilian vehicle when they can use the resources to build new bodies and military vehicles that better suit their needs.
You already have a precedent of this in the form of the Ghost Ark- at one time it was a necrontyr corpse cart, but it was re-purposed to become a repair vehicle.
On the second, there is a great moment that hints at this in one of the Black Library books. The Imperial Crusade shows up, is rejected by the inhabitants because of the deviations in their DNA versus pre-space expansion humanity. This pisses the Imperium off and they wipe them out. Anyone remember which book it was in?
Prospero Burns.
But while Olamic Quietude considered Imperials non-human pretenders - Imperium considered Quietude population pureblood human enough to try to incorporate - after more than dozen milleniums of isolation and parallel evolution/possible DNA tinkering.
And there were no word of 'pre-space' humanity actually.
Spoiler:
Skull measurements and other biological data taken from captured Quietude specimens had confirmed their Terran ancestry. At some point long before the fall of Old Night, a branch of Terran expansion had brought the Quietude’s gene pool into this out-flung, unremembered corner of the galaxy. The commander of the 40th Imperial Expedition Fleet, along with his technical advisors and savants, believed that this exodus had taken place during the First Great Age of Technology, perhaps as long as fifteen thousand years earlier. The Quietude possessed a level of technological aptitude that was extremely sophisticated, and so divergent from Terran or even Martian standards as to suggest a long incubation and, possibly, the influence of a xenobiological culture.
At some early stage in their post-Terran life, the humans of the Quietude had given up their humanity. They operated in social networks, cohered by communications webs neurally spliced into them at birth. They sacrificed most of their flesh anatomy to ritualised surgical procedures during childhood that prepared them to inhabit artificial bodies. Pretty much all that remained of a Quietude adult, organically speaking, were the brain, skull and spinal cord. These rested in the neck socket of an elegantly engineered humanoid chassis, which contained the machine-analogue organs that fed the brain and kept it alive.
-----snip----
THE OLAMIC QUIETUDE had been hostile from the very point of contact. Suspicious and unwilling to formalise any kind of convergence, they had engaged the 40th Fleet in two separate ship actions in an attempt to drive the expedition out of Quietude space. During the second of these skirmishes, the Quietude managed to capture the crew of an Imperial warship.
The commander of the 40th Imperial Expedition Fleet sent a warning to the Quietude, explaining that peaceful contact and exchange was the primary goal of the Imperium of Terra, and the Quietude’s aggressive stance would not be tolerated. The warship and its crew would be returned. Negotiations would begin. Dialogue with Imperial iterators would begin and understanding reached. The Quietude made its first direct response. It explained, as if to a child, or perhaps to a pet dog or bird that it was trying to train, that it was the true and sole heir of the Terran legacy. As its name suggested, it was resting in an everlasting state of readiness to resume contact with its birthworld. It had waited patiently through the apocalyptic ages of storm and tempest.
The Imperials who now approached its borders were pretenders. They were not what they claimed to be. Any fool could see that they were the crude artifice of some alien race trying to mock-up what it thought would pass for human.
The Quietude supported this verdict with copious annotated evidence from its interrogation of the Imperial prisoners. Each prisoner, the Quietude stated, displayed over fifteen thousand points of differential that revealed them to be non-human impostors, as the vivisections clearly demonstrated.
The commander of the 40th Expedition Fleet sent for the nearest Astartes.
keep in mind this doesn't mean the quietude where genuinely more baseline human then the Imperium. Anymore then the "emperor" at the very start of the first Horus Heresy book was really the emperor of mankind and his worl;d was earth etc.
On the second, there is a great moment that hints at this in one of the Black Library books. The Imperial Crusade shows up, is rejected by the inhabitants because of the deviations in their DNA versus pre-space expansion humanity. This pisses the Imperium off and they wipe them out. Anyone remember which book it was in?
Prospero Burns.
But while Olamic Quietude considered Imperials non-human pretenders - Imperium considered Quietude population pureblood human enough to try to incorporate - after more than dozen milleniums of isolation and parallel evolution/possible DNA tinkering.
And there were no word of 'pre-space' humanity actually.
Spoiler:
-----snip----
As its name suggested, it was resting in an everlasting state of readiness to resume contact with its birthworld. It had waited patiently through the apocalyptic ages of storm and tempest.
The Imperials who now approached its borders were pretenders. They were not what they claimed to be. Any fool could see that they were the crude artifice of some alien race trying to mock-up what it thought would pass for human.
Makes me think of them like V'Ger from the first Star Trek movie. Both cases of thinking the original homeworld must be inhabited by beings like themselves.
Desubot wrote: I find it odd. do people really not like the newer necron fluff?
I mean do we really need another mindless group of kill all living things for reason faction?
It's even dumber when you consider the fact the 'newcrons' are the 'oldcrons' when you look at them from the outside, we just saw what makes them tick. You know, it's funny, had any other writer changed the army from two dimensional cardboard cutout into something that allows you to make 'your dudes' really your, while preserving old flavor and feel, he would be praised, but if it's Ward, everything he ever does is unminusgood
It would be even somewhat understandable if old Necron fluff was any good, but it was garbage. All of it, it made no sense whatsoever. That "impossibly advanced anti-tank weapon" 3rd edition fluff tried to pump up so much? Lascannon stats. And it was larger than lascannon, so imperial equivalent was actually better "Impossibly advanced batteries"? Larger than SM backpack, produce less power. "Impossibly powerful star gods"? Terrible stats in game. "Molecular annihilator gun more powerful than lascannons"? Bolter equivalent. So on, so on. Even fluff was dumb, Necrons were somehow responsible for everything, including genetically modifying humans 60 mln years ago, only oh, 59.8 mln years before humans even actually existed
Its almost as if there's a disconnect between fluff and crunch. Like how Marines are supposed to be absolute beasts in the fluff, but essentially fodder on the table top.
Also, pretty sure it didn't say they genetically modified humans 60 million years ago, just inserted the fear of death into everything alive, including human's ancestors. Which is another load of stupid and one of the weaker parts of their fluff. The pariah gene probably came later. Not all necrons stayed asleep. You might be thinking of the Old Ones, who are supposedly the ones who made every single sentient life form with a psychic signature today.
Desubot wrote: I find it odd. do people really not like the newer necron fluff?
I mean do we really need another mindless group of kill all living things for reason faction?
It's even dumber when you consider the fact the 'newcrons' are the 'oldcrons' when you look at them from the outside, we just saw what makes them tick.
The point is more that we saw what made them tick on the inside, and it turned out to be geriatric old coots who behave like senile old generals and have randomly started to wear egyptian head-dresses for no discernible reason other than to try and claw back some people they disillusioned by nixing the Tomb Kings.
We saw what made them tick on the inside, and what we saw made them completely not scary at all any more. Which needless to say is a bit pants.
Yeah, the point of a monster is that he's not human. Once you start making your monster relatable, he stops being a monster and just becomes another human. We already have a large, corrupt hegemony of humans. We don't need another one.
That's not to say showing motivation and personality is a bad thing; it can work, you just have to be smart about it. Dracula certainly has personality, but I wouldn't call him human nor would I relate to him. Well, the in the book, anyway. The movie handled him differently. Book Dracula is a much different beast compared to Gary Oldman Dracula. The problem with what GW did with necrons is that by giving them little fun quirks (this one is a collector, this one is Don Quixote, look how much personality they have!) they stopped being terrifying and started being endearing. Which is not how a monster should be. I mean, such concepts could work, but instead of going for menacing they went for funny. Which is not how necrons should be. They are the boogeymen of the material realm where Demons are the horrors of the spiritual / psychic realm. They need to be written as such.
You can make monsters relatable without making them human as well. In fact, there's a blindingly obvious way to do that with Necrons. Make it clear that they were human-like before the biotransference, and give them haunting shattered echoes of what they used to be.
Perhaps that's what they were going for, but missed the mark and just made them seem like senile old coots.
The way to make them scary with that would be to make it painfully obvious that any semblance of personality they have left clinging onto their metallic corpses is nothing more than a echo. A facade of humanity. Make it 'personality meets the uncanny-valley effect'.
If anyone's seen it, it's like the Vashta Nerada from Dr Who
You can make monsters relatable without making them human as well. In fact, there's a blindingly obvious way to do that with Necrons. Make it clear that they were human-like before the biotransference, and give them haunting shattered echoes of what they used to be.
Perhaps that's what they were going for, but missed the mark and just made them seem like senile old coots.
The way to make them scary with that would be to make it painfully obvious that any semblance of personality they have left clinging onto their metallic corpses is nothing more than a echo. A facade of humanity. Make it 'personality meets the uncanny-valley effect'.
If anyone's seen it, it's like the Vashta Nerada from Dr Who
Yeah, that works as well. That's the general idea behind undead; they were human, but now they aren't.
All undead are tragic in nature because of that. That doesn't make them stop being monsters.
The issue people have is that the "shattered sanity via Biotransference" aspect is suffering from how RPGs traditionally handle insanity. What should be a terrifying case of being trapped inside your own mind devolves into Chaotic Stupid hijinks. Compare Malkavians as theoretically envisioned by White Wolf to the reality of the Fishmalk.
Thank god there is at least one good suggestion in this thread! Although I do like the idea of grots getting more camera time...
Waaargh The Orks wrote:"Mornin' Makari," said Lansig pleasantly. His voice was surprisingly deep for a Gretchin, almost Orkish. It added to the air of authority around his pug-nosed face. "You've been a naughty boy. A word in yer ear..."
Makari wasn't fooled by the way Lansig dressed like a wealthy merchant. The wiry muscles and the unusually powerful build marked him out as a mobster, one of the strong ones that preyed on the Gretchin entrepreneurs in the market square. And Makari hadn't been paying him his cut.
"I've 'ad a bad week, boss," grovelled Makari, "Fat Glub raided me mushroom patch an' took away all da best ones. Useless git, ate 'em 'isself too. Hope 'e's stick as a drunk Ork."
Makari tried to ease himself into the crowd but he felt himself grabbed by Ari and Ari. As he felt their strong grips and looked into their evil faces, Makari became afraid. Lansig leaned forward and picked up one of the toadstools. He wrinkled his nose in distaste. Then he lifted Monti and stroked the squig's back with his long, strangler's fingers.
"See wot yer mean. Still, biz is biz. If yer don't 'ave ten teef fer me by nightfall...Ari'll 'ave ter do a bit ov extraction."
Big Ari held him in place while Little Ari held dental pliers underneath his nose. Lansig put Monti back on the tray. A passing Ork laughed at this sign of Gretchin high spirits. The Gretchin joined in fawningly.
So anything that definitely puts them in a larger spotlight or expands in detail on the nature of Orkonomics besides "dey use teef" would be great.
I'd make C'tan more like unknowable Lovecraftian horrors and their shards on the battlefield are just effigies given a tiny spark of power by the actual C'tan on a whim.
The necrontyr were normal people who worshipped the c'tan and their lords sold them out so that the c'tan would grant them power and immortality at the cost of a massive soul sacrafice on the part of the average citizens. The c'tan gave the lords what they wanted but their subjects are empty shells.
Necrons go back to being empty, soul harvesting robots, their lords get to keep their personalities even if they are just immortal, guilt ridden, nihilistic slaves to indifferent gods instead if grouchy robots and c'tan go back to being cosmic horrors.
Sim-Life wrote: I'd make C'tan more like unknowable Lovecraftian horrors and their shards on the battlefield are just effigies given a tiny spark of power by the actual C'tan on a whim.
The necrontyr were normal people who worshipped the c'tan and their lords sold them out so that the c'tan would grant them power and immortality at the cost of a massive soul sacrafice on the part of the average citizens. The c'tan gave the lords what they wanted but their subjects are empty shells.
Necrons go back to being empty, soul harvesting robots, their lords get to keep their personalities even if they are just immortal, guilt ridden, nihilistic slaves to indifferent gods instead if grouchy robots and c'tan go back to being cosmic horrors.
I'm cool with this. Sounds like a nice compromise.
Hear me out, but I think genestealer cults should have matriarchs instead of patriarchs.
A big influence on Tyranids and the genestealers would be the Alien series. The Aliens were all about queens and mothers, even the books series I've been reading revolved around the aspect of the 'female' in both the xenomorphs and the characters. I think it would also be fair to say that the genestealers cults, at least story wise, would have a strong focus on families. The theme of life, or life grown wild, is also a theme you could connect to Tyranids and in turn connect to genestealers. After all, the whole point is humans giving birth to Tyranid children. This theme of life would difintely fit in better with some 'great mother' that the humans would worship.
Mr Nobody wrote: Hear me out, but I think genestealer cults should have matriarchs instead of patriarchs.
A big influence on Tyranids and the genestealers would be the Alien series. The Aliens were all about queens and mothers, even the books series I've been reading revolved around the aspect of the 'female' in both the xenomorphs and the characters. I think it would also be fair to say that the genestealers cults, at least story wise, would have a strong focus on families. The theme of life, or life grown wild, is also a theme you could connect to Tyranids and in turn connect to genestealers. After all, the whole point is humans giving birth to Tyranid children. This theme of life would difintely fit in better with some 'great mother' that the humans would worship.
Just an idea I've been having.
I want to make a Female Marine joke, but about Tyranids here...
Biologically though, Genestealers are really a female kinda thing anyway, arn't they? They kiss people [In the not nice way] and implant Genestealer seeds into them that makes them hybridy kinda things.
Tyranids need years to eat a planet, and if you put up a good enough fight they'll pack and leave because the biomass gained no longer equals the biomass expended. Right now there is no point in fighting the nids because if they are in orbit you're already dead, your whole planet will be eaten in days. Expanding the timeline out means that battles have a point.
There's something funny about the new guys... Either make the Primaris just a new mark of Marine armor, or really run with the split. Are they some sort of Eldar manchurian candidates about to enact Order 66? Are they the New and Improved who will wipe out the Old and Busted? Are they 2nd Legion kept in storage until the day they would be needed? Clones of Guilleman or some other genetic offspring? Either completely normalize them or give them a narrative reason to exist. They don't have to pull the trigger now but start foreshadowing.
This is more a rules thing but either rewrite the game so a marine army is about 10 guys (vs 100+ guard or orks) OR make it clear that the hoard armies are not 1 figure=1 guy. Maybe 1 ork model = 10 orks. And resist the urge to create Super Marines, Super Duper Marines and Super Duper Quadruper Marines.
Make an Imperial Agents army to stand between the Guard and the Marines. Fold in the Arbites, Sisters and Assasins.
Space Pirates! It's time. Hell make them all Squats too why not.
Get rid of guardians, highly advanced dying races don't field infantry hoards. Replace them with Wraith Skeletons, functionally the same thing but fragile wraithbone constructs.
Lords of Order who are just as scary as the chaos lords. Bring back Pariahs so their missions have a point other than Kill! Kill! Kill! and add Borg style cyber zombie hoards. Add plans for them to lobotomize and mentally neuter people so they cannot fuel the warp gods.
