Pacific Rim: Extinction is a scenario driven, tabletop miniatures strategy game of city-wide destruction and chaos of epic proportions. With fantastically detailed and painted 75mm scale miniatures of the iconic Jaegers – mechanical guardians of humanity – and Kaiju – monsters the size of mountains sent from beyond our world – it captures the spectacular conflict of the Pacific Rim universe and places it in the palm of your hands.
Players will be able to jump right into the action as either the PPDC Jaegers or the Kaiju, either in a quick play match of intense combat, or a more constructed battle with both Jaegers and Kaiju using all their skills and abilities to achieve an objective.
The goal of the game is different depending on which side you choose to fight with. As a Kaiju player, you’ll uncover a secret objective at the start of the game. To win, you’ll need to meet this objective, ideally without revealing what it is to the Jaeger player too early. As a Jaeger player, your goal is to fulfil the PPDC’s task: the protection of humanity. You’ll need to defend cities as Kaiju trample them, and take down the immense invaders.
Riverhorse's terminator game had a great ruleset so I trust this will be fun to play. Interesting choice of scale and pre-painted models, will have to see how they turn out.
I keep telling myself no more kickstarters, but I may find this one hard to resist.
Here's a pic of the starter set (I've heard it's about £35) and a new video interview with Alessio. Cannot wait for 1 o'clock tomorrow for this to go live!
Shame this is based on the new film, which looks like complete and utter gak. I was hoping they'd get a more generic access to the IP, even some creative licensing.
Pacific Rim is one of those "almosts" for me. The first movie was almost good, the designs of the mecha were almost good, etc. I was a fan of a few, like Cherno Alpha and Horizon Brave, but the rest were just lazy.
I actually think a MUCH cooler story line would have been to go prequel, personally. Showing the build and construction of the earliest jaegers - the difficulties of humans fighting off the first Kaiju, etc. The best portion of that story served only as a two-minute intro in the first film.
I'll watch what they do, as I really like River Horse...but I can't get very excited about this.
I actually really like the aesthetics overall and that the different robots have really different designs. There was too much dying too quickly was the issue.
Elbows wrote: Shame this is based on the new film, which looks like complete and utter gak. I was hoping they'd get a more generic access to the IP, even some creative licensing.
Pacific Rim is one of those "almosts" for me. The first movie was almost good, the designs of the mecha were almost good, etc. I was a fan of a few, like Cherno Alpha and Horizon Brave, but the rest were just lazy.
I actually think a MUCH cooler story line would have been to go prequel, personally. Showing the build and construction of the earliest jaegers - the difficulties of humans fighting off the first Kaiju, etc. The best portion of that story served only as a two-minute intro in the first film.
I'll watch what they do, as I really like River Horse...but I can't get very excited about this.
From what Alessio said on Beast of War this weekend they do have wider rights, to if the KS does well they can expand to the first film and even make up their own stuff,
but they have to start with the new movie in part to help promote it
Black Nexus wrote: I understand River Horse have the license to the Pacific Rim Universe, so I'm expecting Gypsy Danger and Striker Eureka at some point.
Don't forget Crimson Typhoon and Cherno Alpha.
Also be nice to get the named Kaiju - Knifehead, Leatherback, Otachi.
I've never backed a kickstarter before due to too many horror stories of people not getting their stuff (or getting it way late), but this one is tempting. I love me some Pacific Rim!
ZergSmasher wrote: I've never backed a kickstarter before due to too many horror stories of people not getting their stuff (or getting it way late), but this one is tempting. I love me some Pacific Rim!
Two of the more troublesome ones Robotech and Aliens vs Predator were also licensed which means an added expense of the licensing fee and an added layer of approval. Robotech appears to have been doomed by general Palladium incompetence, with losing the license being the final nail in the coffin. Protos was pretty frank about how the licence process slowed or stopped their progress.
My new rule is NO LICENSED KICKSTARTERS, wait for retail.
ZergSmasher wrote: I've never backed a kickstarter before due to too many horror stories of people not getting their stuff (or getting it way late), but this one is tempting. I love me some Pacific Rim!
Backed quite a few
What I do:
Assume its going to be late and forget about it until it arrives unless an interesting update comes through.
Most KS over promise and find it harder to deliver but so far I have got all of mine - eventually - lots of really nice stuff.. Don't plan games or anything around their calendar.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: My new rule is NO LICENSED KICKSTARTERS, wait for retail.
It's not a dealbreaker for me, but I otherwise agree. I *think* it depends on the licensee and the "red tape" the licensor can cause for the project, but I'm not entirely sure. Cryptozoic's Walking Dead was a disaster. However, Monolith's Conan went just fine. I'm backing Monolith's Batman, so we'll see.
fwiw, CMON had some licensing deals, but with licensors who didn't have the potential of causing problems for the project: Smart Max for SMOG, and Adrian Smith for HATE. One of Smart Max's game designers worked on SMOG, and Adrian Smith works for CMON.
For game licenses, some, like Kremlin, went well, others, like Up Front and HeroScape 25th didn't. Again, it also depended on the company managing the license. I figure a well run company will also know which licensors it should and should not work with?
The MonPoc announcement was definitely effective in quelling my insta-buy tendencies with this. Normally I'd be all KAIJU-BUY! but now I have a known entity with mechanics I adore so I'm asking questions like "how does the game play?" that I should probably actually look into on these things more often than I do.
Oddly, that specific spoiler was spoiled all the way back when the first movie came out in a sort of "if I get to do a sequel, this would probably happen" sort of way. They've been pretty weirdly nonchalant about for the entirety of the movie's development hell.
Aeneades wrote: Putting a £20 addon for free into early bird pledges (since sold out) is a quick way to completely turn me off a Kickstarter.
Really? It is exactly the same as offering a £20 discount on the EB pledge level over the non-EB version. The exclusive mini can still be purchased by anyone who has not got the EB.
Aeneades wrote: Putting a £20 addon for free into early bird pledges (since sold out) is a quick way to completely turn me off a Kickstarter.
Really? It is exactly the same as offering a £20 discount on the EB pledge level over the non-EB version. The exclusive mini can still be purchased by anyone who has not got the EB.
It is but the early bird % discount is much higher than usual here which is the issue.
Typical early birds offer a around a $10 discount on a $120 pledge level. So around an 8% saving. (Although recently the trend seems to be $5 discount or $10 if the pledge level is around $150).
This Kickstarter offers a £20 discount on a £85 pledge (£65 pledge plus free £20 addon). So around a 23% saving.
Most early birds offer a small discount, this is around three times the usual early bird discount.
(On phone so figures from memory, hopefully correct, checking now)
Other than the early birds, what's the point in backing?
There's no real incentive, no extra Jaegers or kaiju, very little building terrain... I feel like we're paying for the painted figures more than anything else.
Shipping won't be cheap either.
This is looking like a hard pass to me sadly, at least at the current price. World needs more tokusatsu/ kaiju battle games as it is.
I'm in. You can tell their modelling the game after x-wing in terms of it's sale model. £35 cheapish starter set then £20 for a pre-painted model pack. Feels like it will be competitive once it hits retail.
Hoping they raise enough to get through all the jaegers from both the new film and the original.
The kickstarter exclusive alt pose is nice, if there's any more kickstarter exclusives this is the way to go rather then unique jaegers / kaiju.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So the game piece minis are more expensive than the fully articulated 8" toys? I guess I'll stick with the old toys and the old Heroclix minis.
Careful, you're on the verge of making a Kings of War army with a bag of dollar-store army men and McFarlane toys, then gak posting on TMP about how "back in my day you could get a bushel of tin flats for 99p!"
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So the game piece minis are more expensive than the fully articulated 8" toys? I guess I'll stick with the old toys and the old Heroclix minis.
Careful, you're on the verge of making a Kings of War army with a bag of dollar-store army men and McFarlane toys, then gak posting on TMP about how "back in my day you could get a bushel of tin flats for 99p!"
I made three KoW armies from clearanced Arcane Legions boxes...
Anyway, I have a different approach than you do; instead of the game itself, I am drawn to the minis, and they have competition that the game might not have.
Also keep in mind that the "free figure" is just an alternate of one in the base set, you're still getting all the rules and play as the early backers, just with 200% less chainswords. (50% less if you get the expansions)
Yeah, this just isn't really resonating with me. I really liked the first movie. The trailer for the new one is REALLY bad, so I am not as pumped for it, but I will probably check it out. It makes total sense that the new Jaegers would feature in this game, but, I find them rather bland, and a bit too similar to each other. The First movie had much more interesting Jaegers, and kaiju, but again, to be fair, haven't seen the new one yet, so it may be better than I think.
The prepainted makes sense if you consider that there is probably a large group of casual players who will want this, but the base box should really have EVERYTHING from the movie in it from the get go. I trust that Alessio and his team will make a good game, but that alone can't make me buy it. I'm wondering if there are issues with them using the first movies characters?
Oh, and since I hadn't seen it posted on here yet, here's a link to the actual project.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So the game piece minis are more expensive than the fully articulated 8" toys? I guess I'll stick with the old toys and the old Heroclix minis.
I just sold off most of my old demo figures so I could buy the new Bandai Tamashii Nations Pacific Rim Uprising figures and use them instead. If you haven't seen them, you should check them out. They are so much better than the NECA figures.
The first jaeger from the first film has been added to the campaign, being gipsy danger herself. This has been added to all £65 level pledges for FREE.
I think they have heard peoples desire for the stuff from the first film, i expect to see some more as the next set of stretch goals.
Liked the first movie, second looks bland (hate sequels which change the main characters). Glad they listened to our comments, made the pledge more of a value, and gave us the gypsy danger. Good to see a company listen and adjust.
My other suggestion is the stretch goals... spaced apart just to unlock add ons? Doesn't look like there will be too many free minis in this one... which is fine if the pledge gives a value above waiting for diacounted retail. Otherwise why not just wait for retail and not take any risk.
They should throw out more add on sets (like a set of the mechs from the first film and another of the monster things from the first film). That would definitely raise some cash and unlock goals, which could be price reductions of the add ons or free cards.
As of now, the first film is more popular and lucrative, as folks know little about the new one.
I dropped my pledge. The product doesn't excite me enough to spend now on something that I will need to wait months to get, if at all. The early bird pledge is also just terrible and it's especially terrible that River Horse locked early bird pledges after Day One without telling anyone that this would be the case.
Manchu wrote: I dropped my pledge. The product doesn't excite me enough to spend now on something that I will need to wait months to get, if at all. The early bird pledge is also just terrible and it's especially terrible that River Horse locked early bird pledges after Day One without telling anyone that this would be the case.
Don't suppose you can elaborate on why the early bird pledge is terrible? I'm planning on running a KS for my game soonish (end of April, Tzeentch-willing), and I'd dearly love to not repeat the mistakes of others.
I dropped my pledge after I saw the stretch goals. Anything that adds a model makes you spend more money. I hate kick-starters that have optional buys locked in stretch goals.
Manchu wrote: I dropped my pledge. The product doesn't excite me enough to spend now on something that I will need to wait months to get, if at all. The early bird pledge is also just terrible and it's especially terrible that River Horse locked early bird pledges after Day One without telling anyone that this would be the case.
Don't suppose you can elaborate on why the early bird pledge is terrible? I'm planning on running a KS for my game soonish (end of April, Tzeentch-willing), and I'd dearly love to not repeat the mistakes of others.
Some feel that if they get a worse deal that others (ie they miss the early bird) they've been cheated so won't back the game especially if the early bird is a mini/card etc instead of just a bit of a discount
While quite vocal I tend to think they're in the minority and if you're not a major KS company with an inbuilt following early birds offering a small discount (either for 24 hours or enough to fund the project both of which are 'fair') are a decent idea as long as you're clear about it from the start
Nurglitch wrote: Don't suppose you can elaborate on why the early bird pledge is terrible?
Of course, no problem. To begin with, the fundamental nature of KS is convincing people to give you money now for a practically unenforceable promise to give them something later. The inherent risk means KS creators have to offer backers something over and above the eventual fair market value of the KS rewards. Initially, this added value was conceived of as the chance to help bring something to market that otherwise would not exist. And some projects still trade on that kind of value. But in the tabletop gaming world, KS creators have used tactics like KS exclusive items or prices. And of course the early bird pledge concept is also a tactic. But it has more particular goals than simply encouraging backers. The early bird pledge level is about controlling how backers behave during the funding period. More specifically, it is usually deployed in order to (a) fund on Day 1 and/or (b) discourage backers from dropping pledges until the end of the funding period.
OK so what's my objection? Problem No. 1 is, the early bird tactic effectively incentivizes desirable backer behavior ... but only to the extent of the "early bird" terms. So if backers can only back at an early bird pledge level on Day 1, you are only incentivizing backers who pledge on Day 1. Or if there are only X available early bird pledges, you are only incentivizing X backers. Problem No. 2 is, the early bird pledge level can be a DISincentive for every potential backer who cannot choose an early bird pledge. Keep in mind the fundamental nature of KS: exchanging actual money for hypothetical value. By creating a limited value tier as part of the structure of your KS you are devaluing the unlimited value tiers.
Turning to this particular project, River Horse faces a very special problem. So let's keep in mind that this company published the Terminator miniatures game, which is a really great licensed game that got sunk by a contemporaneous box office bomb. With the Pacific Rim license, RH is back in that potential situation. So how do they hedge their risk. Step one is to offload risk onto KS backers. If RH brought this project to market in November 2018, months after the movie potentially flopped, sales would be a disaster. You have to get customers to buy the game before the movie comes out. But there is a timing issue: Pacific Rim Uprising is coming out before the KS project ends.
Enter the early bird pledge tactic. I think RH calculated that they needed X number of pledges at Y GBP to fund at the end of 23 days given that this movie might flop 10 days before the end of that period. It wasn't so much about funding on Day 1, although that is nice to brag about. The real issue here was discouraging people who might have pledged hastily from dropping their pledges. I think this is especially clear considering River Horse had locked the early bird pledges at the end of Day 2 without any prior notice. I don't think they ever needed (or indeed ever wanted) 1000 backers at the early bird level. I think they probably wanted 600-700 early bird backers and anything over that, whether early bird or not, was (so long as it was not a huge amount of people) just icing on the cake. And I think River Horse used that 1000 person early bird cap, before there was any time limit imposed, because they did not want many more than 1000 backers over all.
And TBH who (other than a Pacific Rim super fan) would really want to back the project without being an early bird backer in this case? You'd have missed out on a 20 GBP value, which is a pretty significant loss. It really makes the unlimited pledge levels feel like a rip off. The problem they faced, however, is that many early bird backers still felt they would be paying too much for what they were getting. To address this, RH did two things: it covertly locked the early bird pledge level (which has nonetheless lost 82 backers as of this writing) and it announced a free Gipsy Danger model with all 65 GBP pledges. I can't emphasize enough how BOTH of these tactics are aimed primarily at early bird pledge level backers. Again, RH's main goal seems to be to protect the bedrock funding represented by that class of pledges - and everyone else is incidental. Everyone else is clearly incidental because we're talking about a value that is over 30% of the pledge level cost.
Here, it is probably within the interests of RH to avoid gaining too many backers or promising more than a certain amount of product development given the special precarious circumstances of the Pacific Rim license. But setting up your KS in such a way that discourages backers is not what every KS creator is aiming for. The early bird pledge can create a lot of incentive for Day 1 pledging but the cost can be putting a real drag on every subsequent day of funding.
Manchu wrote: The early bird pledge can create a lot of incentive for Day 1 pledging but the cost can be putting a real drag on every subsequent day of funding.
Personally I prefer pledge in the first 24 Hour get bonus vs Early Bird Pledges. There is nothing more disappointing than knowing about Early Birds, going within a second of the announcement only to see the small amount of EBs have already been gone. At least with proper advertising 24 hours gives enough time for a good portion to jump on early enough to at least get an incentive for backing sooner than later.
Manchu wrote: The early bird pledge can create a lot of incentive for Day 1 pledging but the cost can be putting a real drag on every subsequent day of funding.
Personally I prefer pledge in the first 24 Hour get bonus vs Early Bird Pledges. There is nothing more disappointing than knowing about Early Birds, going within a second of the announcement only to see the small amount of EBs have already been gone. At least with proper advertising 24 hours gives enough time for a good portion to jump on early enough to at least get an incentive for backing sooner than later.
I came here to say the same thing. Elder Dice is doing a great job of incentivizing early pledges by offering an extra d20 (I think from their established product) for folks that pledge within the first 24 hours. They're a small scale, boutique kickstarter launch that is engaging in tons of prelaunch marketing.
Alternatively, I love Reaper's clockwork madness of making pledges shipping waves. That really encourages people to pledge early at no real cost to the company. Though I think you have to expect a ton of fulfillment for that to be meaningful.
Personally, I lost interest when the 'stretch' goals here are ALL just opportunities to buy more product. That's fine to some extent, but there should be some large goals that just add to the base pledge value.
Ideally I'd like to avoid stretch goals entirely, but I can see how having extra cash would let me push the per-unit cost down. The tricky part, I think, would be cramming more stuff in the box. Not really sure about the whole 'First!' pledges getting more. Thanks Manchu!
No problem, Nurglitch, it was fun writing up my thoughts. I stress these are my own opinions with no basis except as a KS backer over the last six years or so, having experienced a few good projects and a lot of frustrating ones. The best advice for someone thinking of launching a KS project is probably to ... read whatever actual experts have to say!
For example, maybe there is some statistical correlation between successful projects and Day 1 funding that drives some of these tactics/gimmicks and maybe somebody has been able to show it's more than just correlation. I don't know.
For the record I have a ton of respect for Alessio Cavatore as a designer and I understand where he might be coming from here as a business owner who has had some bad experiences working with licenses. The truth is, for me at least, that the early bird tactic - especially in this egregious case (again over 30% of the pledge cost) - really demotivates me.
OTOH anybody who really wants this game might consider it's future at retail (or rather lack thereof) considering the sequal may fail at the box office. By way of example, I wish there was a future for the Terminator miniatures game but that seems unlikely.
Manchu wrote:I dropped my pledge. The product doesn't excite me enough to spend now on something that I will need to wait months to get, if at all. The early bird pledge is also just terrible and it's especially terrible that River Horse locked early bird pledges after Day One without telling anyone that this would be the case.
100BostonFan wrote:I dropped my pledge after I saw the stretch goals. Anything that adds a model makes you spend more money. I hate kick-starters that have optional buys locked in stretch goals.
I echo these thoughts as well. These are huge drawback of other KS's that should not be mimicked, yet they are here.
I am genetically predisposed to buy into this game, as somebody else mentioned we need more decent kaiju romper room arena games. My love for daikaiju runs deep.
But the way the KS is being handled isn't my main concern and criticism. The design itself appears to be not very compelling. If you only have a single model go toe-to-toe with another model, then those single models need a lot of design granularity to make one model fighting another compelling enough to not dismiss.
The retail version contains two models. This is worth repeating. The retail package contains two models.
How compelling will the combat be with just two models? Nothing that's being shown of the game design is giving me any confidence that this will be worth the time or money to consider. In other games where each player controls only a single character, it is very common knowledge that these games are only good with 3 players minimum, or each player controlling more than a single character. Gorechosen is a very good contemporary example here.
Yet here we are expected to believe that a retail game of two single models is a good game...
So, poor KS or not, the game looks like a stinker.
And if we are considering their past game designs as a precedent for this, then where are they? I don't see anyone extolling the virtues of dark crystal or labyrinth, for example.
Until I see more solid examples of why one model fighting another is a good idea, this will be a hard pass, sadly.
Hellfury wrote: The design itself appears to be not very compelling. If you only have a single model go toe-to-toe with another model, then those single models need a lot of design granularity to make one model fighting another compelling enough to not dismiss.
The retail version contains two models. This is worth repeating. The retail package contains two models.
How compelling will the combat be with just two models? Nothing that's being shown of the game design is giving me any confidence that this will be worth the time or money to consider. In other games where each player controls only a single character, it is very common knowledge that these games are only good with 3 players minimum, or each player controlling more than a single character. Gorechosen is a very good contemporary example here.
Until I see more solid examples of why one model fighting another is a good idea, this will be a hard pass, sadly.
This is my concern as well. As someone who has designed a kaiju game and been demoing that game (in its various editions) for almost 20 years, one vs one combat can get very stale very fast if you don't have reasons for the combatants to want to maneuver around and accomplish other objectives. To often, players just want to duke it out and wind up either sitting in the middle of the table rolling dice or the aggressive player winds up chasing the other player all game. That is why I really want to see the rules and some gameplay videos before I decide whether or not the game is worth owning.
Hellfury wrote: The design itself appears to be not very compelling. If you only have a single model go toe-to-toe with another model, then those single models need a lot of design granularity to make one model fighting another compelling enough to not dismiss.
The retail version contains two models. This is worth repeating. The retail package contains two models.
How compelling will the combat be with just two models? Nothing that's being shown of the game design is giving me any confidence that this will be worth the time or money to consider. In other games where each player controls only a single character, it is very common knowledge that these games are only good with 3 players minimum, or each player controlling more than a single character. Gorechosen is a very good contemporary example here.
Until I see more solid examples of why one model fighting another is a good idea, this will be a hard pass, sadly.
This is my concern as well. As someone who has designed a kaiju game and been demoing that game (in its various editions) for almost 20 years, one vs one combat can get very stale very fast if you don't have reasons for the combatants to want to maneuver around and accomplish other objectives. To often, players just want to duke it out and wind up either sitting in the middle of the table rolling dice or the aggressive player winds up chasing the other player all game. That is why I really want to see the rules and some gameplay videos before I decide whether or not the game is worth owning.
Raises a question: What are you looking for in a game play video for this game?
I'd imagine the Kaiju hidden agenda thing is intended for stopping the mid-field boxing match. For myself I always get annoyed by the sort of hidden information, as either the opposing player can guess it from the set of possibilities, or they get caught out and get discouraged from playing again.
Hellfury wrote: How compelling will the combat be with just two models? Nothing that's being shown of the game design is giving me any confidence that this will be worth the time or money to consider. In other games where each player controls only a single character, it is very common knowledge that these games are only good with 3 players minimum, or each player controlling more than a single character. Gorechosen is a very good contemporary example here.
The base game has 2 models, but the game itself you can use more. A lot of it is implied, but it does look like building multiple Kaiju/Jaeger teams will be the norm. Specifically in 'Flanking', it says 'the worst place to be is sandwiched between two enemies'.
Base games being very small compared to what you will usually play is the norm in this hobby, especially in a game about building lists. Don't take the 2 models in the box as the standard of play.
Hellfury wrote: How compelling will the combat be with just two models? Nothing that's being shown of the game design is giving me any confidence that this will be worth the time or money to consider. In other games where each player controls only a single character, it is very common knowledge that these games are only good with 3 players minimum, or each player controlling more than a single character. Gorechosen is a very good contemporary example here.
The base game has 2 models, but the game itself you can use more. A lot of it is implied, but it does look like building multiple Kaiju/Jaeger teams will be the norm. Specifically in 'Flanking', it says 'the worst place to be is sandwiched between two enemies'.
Base games being very small compared to what you will usually play is the norm in this hobby, especially in a game about building lists. Don't take the 2 models in the box as the standard of play.
Implication or not, thats a poor product unless a game between merely two models is actually compelling. The verdict is still out as I dont know much about the game, like most other people.
But I do a lot of design work myself, and I know two models duking out between each other lacks and semblance of strategy, there is no tactical considerations and choices are null.
But maybe they figured out a way to make it outstanding. Im willing to give the benefit of the doubt because its entirely possible. I have yet to see it dont, but it could happen. But I'm not so open to the possibility that I would back the project. Show me.
So it remains a poor product. They are talking up a retail package that contains two models but implies it needs more to even be considered an actual game? That, right there, is a flag so red that Khorne is jealous of its crimson hue. It is fundamentally poor. Meaning, from the ground up, its badly thought out and horribly implemented.
This isn't just "A base game that is very small" and nor is such a product as this the norm in the hobby. The norm in this hobby is enough to illustrate that you can build more if you so chose, but is capable of showing what the game can do with just whats inside. This is half witted until they can prove that two models can illustrate the tactics involved.
Otherwise, its just the gladiator arena scene from Life of Brian. Where the loser is the person who gave up first because they got sick of the game.
I wont be explaining my position further on this, as I find discussing any criticism with those who back kickstarters and their sunk cost fallacies intermingling with confirmation bias, to be tedious at best.
Have you ever played a game of x-wing with just the starter box. One x-wing vs two ties is not great and far from the "normal" experience of playing the game.
I'd say in wargames it's very rare to have a starter set that works well as a stand alone game, they are after all designed to get you started, and buying more product, not act as a be all and end all of the game.
The campaign seems to have gotten over the stall caused by early bird pledge drops, and has been ticking along nicely the last couple of days.
Only 22 backers for the starter-only set, so, yep, plenty of others agree that the 2-figure starter set is a dumb idea. However, for retail, I imagine it's easier for a non-hobby gamer to buy a $50 game than a $90 one.
Looks like there's some replayability because of the card upgrades. Dunno.
Tamereth wrote: Have you ever played a game of x-wing with just the starter box. One x-wing vs two ties is not great and far from the "normal" experience of playing the game.
I'd say in wargames it's very rare to have a starter set that works well as a stand alone game, they are after all designed to get you started, and buying more product, not act as a be all and end all of the game.
The campaign seems to have gotten over the stall caused by early bird pledge drops, and has been ticking along nicely the last couple of days.
That is absolutely true. On the other hand, the X Wing Starter set is between 20 and 30 dollars at retail- this sucker is 50 bucks at kickstarter rates.
I'm ok with spending 20-30 on basically a demo game experience- that's also the price point for DnD 5e's starter box, or a Pokemon starter set with 2 30 card decks.
I'm less ok at 50. Battletech is doing a pair of starters later this year- one also has only a pair of models (although it also includes cardboard standee mechs) , but again that is at 20. For the bigger one they have 8 models in a 60 dollar game.
I think their price point is too high for an impulse purchase demo, and their content is insufficient for a full game starter, unless a one kaiju vs one robot game is much more complicated than it seems.
Don't get me wrong, the game itself looks interesting- after I've played it, or watched some playthroughs I might consider purchasing it. The models are to their credit, gorgeous. As others have said though, for a kickstarter the value and wow factor just isn't there for me. If it is for you, wonderful!
Mysterio wrote: I'd think more terrain/buildings would help a lot too.
Honestly, I think a better design would be pretty helpful as well.
I don't think it is a horrible design, but it appears mediocre at best. :( Which is painfully disappointing.
I agree with other people on various sites. This is a very rushed design. Yet another half baked KS game to get lumped in with the rest of the sub par KS games designed for a cash in without regard to bringing anything new to the table.
Which frankly fits the entire idea of the kaiju genre since their movies basically reflect that ethos.
But that rationale still didn't help Richard Berg's Kaiju World Wars, a big production and license that was universally rejected by the gaming community at large. Now forgotten other than the infamy for its disappointment.
If you're a backer, I'm not trying to sway your opinion. Enjoy your game.
But if you're not a backer and are looking for a decent kaiju game based on a fun license, you'll just have to keep waiting like the rest of us. Nothing to see here.
Sorry backers if I'm not helping to ramp up funding so you can get more stuff. Tell the creators to do better. It's their fault for it's lack of success. The names 'Alessio' and ' Pacific Rim' can only carry it so far.
Mysterio wrote: I'd think more terrain/buildings would help a lot too.
Honestly, I think a better design would be pretty helpful as well.
I don't think it is a horrible design, but it appears mediocre at best. :( Which is painfully disappointing.
I agree with other people on various sites. This is a very rushed design. Yet another half baked KS game to get lumped in with the rest of the sub par KS games designed for a cash in without regard to bringing anything new to the table.
Which frankly fits the entire idea of the kaiju genre since their movies basically reflect that ethos.
But that rationale still didn't help Richard Berg's Kaiju World Wars, a big production and license that was universally rejected by the gaming community at large. Now forgotten other than the infamy for its disappointment.
If you're a backer, I'm not trying to sway your opinion. Enjoy your game.
But if you're not a backer and are looking for a decent kaiju game based on a fun license, you'll just have to keep waiting like the rest of us. Nothing to see here.
Sorry backers if I'm not helping to ramp up funding so you can get more stuff. Tell the creators to do better. It's their fault for it's lack of success. The names 'Alessio' and ' Pacific Rim' can only carry it so far.
It might not be up to gamer standards, or bring anything new to the table, except people. this is a project for a movie that did great internationally, and therefore doesn’t have to bring new stuff to the table, just be exciting for those who enjoyed the movie. If they can cash in on some of the fans of the movie then it will be good for everyone as it will grow the community. If people enjoy it, but want more depth, variation or want to explore other games then it’s a total win. But for it to be the next BIG thing, I think that’s not really their goal. After all it’s not like they would be allowed to create their own Kaiju or characters and any further expanse will be dictated by the movie.
I'm very happy for this game to succeed in spite of it being a competitor to my own Titanomachina game. Actually, because it's a competitor!
Firstly, we need more giant robot gaming, and I don't have the name recognition that Alessio Cavatore and Pacific Rim have. If people buy this and it scratches an itch, I feel like they're going to dig around to see what else is out there (and games like GKR: Heavy Hitters, and Giga-Robo are already going to be in stores). If people know this sort of thing is available, then they're going to go looking for it. A rising tide lifts all boats and all that. Introducing people to this sort of gaming is good.
Secondly, there's a ton of space in the giant robot genre to play. GKR, Giga-Robo, and my own Titanomachina are all visually distinct from Pacific Rim: Extinction, and they all cover similar ground in a similar way while providing variety, and choice is good for consumers. That other people are trying to fill that space suggests, to me, that it's a space worth filling. There's space for lots of different sub-genres and games!
Finally, I'm pretty sure I followed that game-play video, and understand the gameplay description on the KS, and since someone was going to do it, and Riverhorse did a better job on Terminator Genisys than the movie did (not nearly enough chrome metal kill-bots!), so it could certainly be worse if it is just a cash-grab tie-in.
Initial reviews of the movie are coming in and it doesn't look promising. I hope that this won't be history repeating itself for Alessio as with Terminator when a poorly received movie sunk an otherwise good game (from what I heard both online and in person) in the long run.
Initial reviews of the movie are coming in and it doesn't look promising. I hope that this won't be history repeating itself for Alessio as with Terminator when a poorly received movie sunk an otherwise good game (from what I heard both online and in person) in the long run.
Thanks for the link. You probably saved me from an expensive cringe-fest. Boyega already spoiled Star Wars for me but to be fair a lot of his fellow cast members were not up to the task at hand.
Well, how does the Pacific Rim cast look like? It reminds me of Power Rangers and this is not a good thing. Seriously, a 15-year-old brat piloting a military vehicle? HELL, NO! The only bright side are the two crazy scientists who do their shenanigans for comedic relief. But is this enough to watch the movie? Nope.
Initial reviews of the movie are coming in and it doesn't look promising. I hope that this won't be history repeating itself for Alessio as with Terminator when a poorly received movie sunk an otherwise good game (from what I heard both online and in person) in the long run.
The "Critics" said Last Jedi was a fantastic film - IMO they lied and/or were influenced to lie.
Make your own mind up I say But yes a film doing badly will influence its sales.
I enjoyed the first film but probably going to give this KS a pass as backed 6 this month already and its not standing out enough.
The ratings look pretty good if you read the comments.
The low ratings seem to be from critics who have no clue what a kaiju movie is.
"It doesn't inspire me emotionally."
Really?!? Gee, I was hoping a giant robot movie kicking major monster ass to be a tour de force of Oscar caliber writing/acting that would send me emotional insipration to sing Michael McDonald songs.
I mean, I could be a gak movie. But going by metacritic may not be the best course of action to judge a kaiju movie. Maybe listen to reviewers who like kaiju films and could add context to their critique? Just a thought.
It's difficult for a young kaiju on the cusp of daikaiju-hood to connect with an emotionally cold robot, and the movie needs to convey that. It's the director's fault for not casting Laurie Metcalf.
The ratings look pretty good if you read the comments.
The low ratings seem to be from critics who have no clue what a kaiju movie is.
"It doesn't inspire me emotionally."
Really?!? Gee, I was hoping a giant robot movie kicking major monster ass to be a tour de force of Oscar caliber writing/acting that would send me emotional insipration to sing Michael McDonald songs.
I mean, I could be a gak movie. But going by metacritic may not be the best course of action to judge a kaiju movie. Maybe listen to reviewers who like kaiju films and could add context to their critique? Just a thought.
You beat me to it!
Kaiju/Super-Robot movies are probably never going to get great reviews/universal acclaim - they just need to be fun.
The ratings look pretty good if you read the comments.
The low ratings seem to be from critics who have no clue what a kaiju movie is.
"It doesn't inspire me emotionally."
Really?!? Gee, I was hoping a giant robot movie kicking major monster ass to be a tour de force of Oscar caliber writing/acting that would send me emotional insipration to sing Michael McDonald songs.
I mean, I could be a gak movie. But going by metacritic may not be the best course of action to judge a kaiju movie. Maybe listen to reviewers who like kaiju films and could add context to their critique? Just a thought.
No one said that metacritic is the only, best, or even recommended way to judge any movie.. it's simply an easy way to get a quick wide snap shot of opinions. The best way to judge a movie is to see it yourself because each judgement is simply an opinion rather than a statement of fact and vary from person to person. Even reviews from a biased review industry that gives certain protected groups a pass based on their genetic characteristics and/or politics gets things completely different compared to the general viewing public (see the Last Jedi mentioned above). But, as an easy quick way to get a wide snapshot, the link I posted will also have a user score as well when the movie is actually released. Until then, it's probably not best to get your skinny jeans in a bunch and trigger a hipster tizzy just because someone posted a link to a single url that presents a wide variety of opinions in a handy format.
Also, there is absolutely nothing about a "kaiju" movie or any other subgenre that specifically excludes having good writing and acting nor does good writing or acting somehow take away from what makes a "kaiju" movie actually "kaiju". I don't expect Oscar caliber writing or acting as a baseline but I do expect a minimum average quality writing and acting in any professional studio made movie I'm paying money to see. I don't believe that is a high standard to have either.
Also, there is absolutely nothing about a "kaiju" movie or any other subgenre that specifically excludes having good writing and acting nor does good writing or acting somehow take away from what makes a "kaiju" movie actually "kaiju". I don't expect Oscar caliber writing or acting as a baseline but I do expect a minimum average quality writing and acting in any professional studio made movie I'm paying money to see. I don't believe that is a high standard to have either.
Thank you. I came in to say something similar but you eloquently beat me to it.
The first movie was pretty crap too, from a writing/acting stand point. The action was great, but there were plot holes big enough to skip a Jaeger through. And the "emotional" elements were cliche' and felt forced to me. I mean, don't get me wrong, the movie sold me the moment I saw Gypsy Danger smack a Kaiju with a tanker ship, but there were entire stretches of the film where I was bored, rolling my eyes and waiting for the next monster fight. And the rewatchability is limited. I just can't sit through the whole movie because of how bad it is in places.
The ratings look pretty good if you read the comments.
The low ratings seem to be from critics who have no clue what a kaiju movie is.
"It doesn't inspire me emotionally."
Really?!? Gee, I was hoping a giant robot movie kicking major monster ass to be a tour de force of Oscar caliber writing/acting that would send me emotional insipration to sing Michael McDonald songs.
I mean, I could be a gak movie. But going by metacritic may not be the best course of action to judge a kaiju movie. Maybe listen to reviewers who like kaiju films and could add context to their critique? Just a thought.
No one said that metacritic is the only, best, or even recommended way to judge any movie.. it's simply an easy way to get a quick wide snap shot of opinions. The best way to judge a movie is to see it yourself because each judgement is simply an opinion rather than a statement of fact and vary from person to person. Even reviews from a biased review industry that gives certain protected groups a pass based on their genetic characteristics and/or politics gets things completely different compared to the general viewing public (see the Last Jedi mentioned above). But, as an easy quick way to get a wide snapshot, the link I posted will also have a user score as well when the movie is actually released. Until then, it's probably not best to get your skinny jeans in a bunch and trigger a hipster tizzy just because someone posted a link to a single url that presents a wide variety of opinions in a handy format.
Sadly, my skinny jeans aren't triggered into a hipster tizzy over the url itself. I agree that an aggravate is easy and handy.
I was actually being critical of some of the critics comments made on meta critic by people who clearly don't know what to expect from a kaiju flick.
But then again, the basic reading comprehension that a second grader possesses would have revealed that.
Your defense mechanism makes me look fat in these skinny jeans.
The trick to critics is to find the ones whose opinions you share and not really care about a general consensus. It's also generally a good idea to real the whole criticism over a score or summary.
I haven't heard from my absolute favorite critics on this one yet, but my second tier hasn't been particularly kind to the film and their reasons lead me to believe that won't change when I hear from the rest. It sounds like there's too much plot that's not particularly interesting and too many characters that don't really go anywhere in the plot. That's the trouble with action films; even if the plot isn't the point, it can still make the film miserable if you spend a considerable time with it.
The ratings look pretty good if you read the comments.
The low ratings seem to be from critics who have no clue what a kaiju movie is.
"It doesn't inspire me emotionally."
Really?!? Gee, I was hoping a giant robot movie kicking major monster ass to be a tour de force of Oscar caliber writing/acting that would send me emotional insipration to sing Michael McDonald songs.
I mean, I could be a gak movie. But going by metacritic may not be the best course of action to judge a kaiju movie. Maybe listen to reviewers who like kaiju films and could add context to their critique? Just a thought.
No one said that metacritic is the only, best, or even recommended way to judge any movie.. it's simply an easy way to get a quick wide snap shot of opinions. The best way to judge a movie is to see it yourself because each judgement is simply an opinion rather than a statement of fact and vary from person to person. Even reviews from a biased review industry that gives certain protected groups a pass based on their genetic characteristics and/or politics gets things completely different compared to the general viewing public (see the Last Jedi mentioned above). But, as an easy quick way to get a wide snapshot, the link I posted will also have a user score as well when the movie is actually released. Until then, it's probably not best to get your skinny jeans in a bunch and trigger a hipster tizzy just because someone posted a link to a single url that presents a wide variety of opinions in a handy format.
Sadly, my skinny jeans aren't triggered into a hipster tizzy over the url itself. I agree that an aggravate is easy and handy.
I was actually being critical of some of the critics comments made on meta critic by people who clearly don't know what to expect from a kaiju flick.
But then again, the basic reading comprehension that a second grader possesses would have revealed that.
Your defense mechanism makes me look fat in these skinny jeans.
You just out-InquisitorBob'd BobtheInquisitor - well done!
I think fans of the first movie, and Kaiju movie fans in general, will enjoy this movie.
I was glad when a sequel was announced, because I didn't think the first movie performed well enough to warrant another one, so I'm glad that it did, but I won't be expecting another one.
So far in in at the earlybird. That may change though. The geek and sundry videos (per usual) are pretty horrible. Doesent give me anything really besides seeing it uses special dice and a stupid looking movement tool. (Creators must play a lot of FFG games..)
The idea as a whole is cool, the figures are cool and I enjoyed the first movie for what it was. No interest in the second movie and without getting to actually watch people play the game and learn it, my pledge may be dropping soon.
Ah, what the hell. Just bought a ticket for Thursday to watch it. I can still act like Ebenezer Scrooge on other days of the year. If the movie really sucks, then I can bitch about it later on in this thread.
Here's the reason behind the movement tool and no hex grid:
Hex Gauge
This tool is used for manoeuvering the Jaegers and Kaiju around the battlefield. Using this tool offers great flexibility in how and where the huge machines and monsters can move. We developed this tool, rather than using a hex grid, for two main reasons:
1) Flexibility: using the tool means the Jaegers and Kaiju aren’t always locked into a grid relative to each other. This means they can move, approach, and then ‘snap’ together into combat from any direction. It also allows us to better represent the different mechanical and biological motions of the Jaegers and Kaiju.
2) Freedom of play space: Using the hex tool means that Pacific Rim: Extinction can be played on any surface, whether it be kitchen table, poster mat, or custom crafted game table! There is no need for a specific hex grid, so the Jaegers and Kaiju can clash anywhere!
Also the Gipsy Avenger has been reposed to look more dynamic as a result of backer feedback.
The ratings look pretty good if you read the comments.
The low ratings seem to be from critics who have no clue what a kaiju movie is.
"It doesn't inspire me emotionally."
Really?!? Gee, I was hoping a giant robot movie kicking major monster ass to be a tour de force of Oscar caliber writing/acting that would send me emotional insipration to sing Michael McDonald songs.
I mean, I could be a gak movie. But going by metacritic may not be the best course of action to judge a kaiju movie. Maybe listen to reviewers who like kaiju films and could add context to their critique? Just a thought.
No one said that metacritic is the only, best, or even recommended way to judge any movie.. it's simply an easy way to get a quick wide snap shot of opinions. The best way to judge a movie is to see it yourself because each judgement is simply an opinion rather than a statement of fact and vary from person to person. Even reviews from a biased review industry that gives certain protected groups a pass based on their genetic characteristics and/or politics gets things completely different compared to the general viewing public (see the Last Jedi mentioned above). But, as an easy quick way to get a wide snapshot, the link I posted will also have a user score as well when the movie is actually released. Until then, it's probably not best to get your skinny jeans in a bunch and trigger a hipster tizzy just because someone posted a link to a single url that presents a wide variety of opinions in a handy format.
Sadly, my skinny jeans aren't triggered into a hipster tizzy over the url itself. I agree that an aggravate is easy and handy.
I was actually being critical of some of the critics comments made on meta critic by people who clearly don't know what to expect from a kaiju flick.
But then again, the basic reading comprehension that a second grader possesses would have revealed that.
Your defense mechanism makes me look fat in these skinny jeans.
You just out-InquisitorBob'd BobtheInquisitor - well done!
I think fans of the first movie, and Kaiju movie fans in general, will enjoy this movie.
I was glad when a sequel was announced, because I didn't think the first movie performed well enough to warrant another one, so I'm glad that it did, but I won't be expecting another one.
I would like an explanation of what you mean by that.
Looking like rough going ahead for this Kickstarter. Yeah, they made their funding goal, but while most Kickstarters have a mid campaign slowdown, this one has lost money 3 days in a row now, and backers 4 days in a row according to Kicktraq
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1428582690/pacific-rim-extinction/#chart-daily
I might have been interested in something that was prepainted and not Trek/Wing. But I was lukewarm on the property at best, and after seeing the game in action and how the campaign has been run (unlocking stretch goal stuff you can pay more for! Yeah!), it is a definite hard pass. I don't see the game making even a tiny ripple in the gaming pool before sinking into oblivion.
Judging from the kicktraq link posted above (thanks, totalfailure!), they've lost over 20 backers today but gained over $20,000 in funding with the introduction of a big money "all in" pledge. Hopefully that works out for them.
It seemed to me it was going up before they even announced the details of the all in pledge. I wonder if someone/someones was dumping personal cash into this to pump it up. Because despite the money raised going up, so far today 26 more people have dropped out. Fifth day in a row of net backer loss. That’s not going to sustain a community for a game no matter how much money it raises.
So I watched PR:E and was maybe disappointed by it. Good use of Mr. Trolololo though. It's not that it was bad, but it lacked something the first movie had.
Nurglitch wrote: So I watched PR:E and was maybe disappointed by it. Good use of Mr. Trolololo though. It's not that it was bad, but it lacked something the first movie had.
At the risk of upsetting the more sensitive reader(s) of this thread, I'll mention that the user reviews are starting to come in on metacritic and they're actually close to the critic reviews coming with both averaging in the 40's.
Nurglitch wrote: So I watched PR:E and was maybe disappointed by it. Good use of Mr. Trolololo though. It's not that it was bad, but it lacked something the first movie had.
It's missing Guilliermo Del Toro because he was making a movie about a chick who loves fish sticks.
Del Toro does big budget movies alternating with other stuff, and for every Devils Backbone there's a Hellboy. He puts a lot of love into his big budget stuff that another director might not.
Nurglitch wrote: So I watched PR:E and was maybe disappointed by it. Good use of Mr. Trolololo though. It's not that it was bad, but it lacked something the first movie had.
It's missing Guilliermo Del Toro because he was making a movie about a chick who loves fish sticks.
Del Toro does big budget movies alternating with other stuff, and for every Devils Backbone there's a Hellboy. He puts a lot of love into his big budget stuff that another director might not.
I'd argue that he made the right choice given the Oscar he just got for Dances with Mermen.
Grinding Nemo is a fantastic film. But it's not the lack of Del Toro but it's moreso a lack of monster punching I'm thinking of. Like, actual punching. All the whips/swords/whatever are fun, but the whole point of punching the monsters was so that they didn't get the poisonous blood everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but like a gentleman said on Twitter a while back, I'm more invested in movies where a dinner party has to go right than ones where they have to save the world.
I enjoyed the first and second film. They feel slightly different, but I enjoyed them. I just wished it was a little longer to add a bit more development to it, but it definitely got me excited for the Drone Kaiju... which incidently is what is being funded at the moment...
Since the latest info isn't in the thread:
There's a new playthrough video with Geek and Sundry:
There's a new development video with Beasts of War:
A bunch of new models have been made available, Studio Giraldez posted some photos of unpainted resin masters and there's a cool new exclusive art piece being added to pledges as well.
Also, the All-in pledge got released. Comes with a tonne of stuff. Think it's something like £400 worth of awesome minis for £245 now? There's a size comp shot floating around on the internet as well.
Gotta say this is a first for me in watching campaigns. This campaign is down almost 100 backers compared with two weeks ago but has had solid increasing funding totals despite that. I'm guessing alot of folks are switching to the all in pledge or alternately bugging out early. Regardless, good to see it didn't stall after the mediocre reception of the movie.
It's been an odd kickstarter, there has defiantly been a lot of EB backers dropping out as the campaign went on. However it's been out paced by people bumping up to the all in level.
The game looks fun to play, and the models look good so I'm still in. There's still a bunch of extra jaegers and kaiju they could do, so if it sells well at retail we could see more in the future.
I'd say on par with the first one. In that I'd give it a solid 65-70% if I had to rate it. So, entertaining but nothing special. Was happy to see Jaegers in daylight, surprised I didn't hate Boyega (normally don't like him that much), etc. As a movie...pretty bad, as expected. Maybe not Transformers/Bay bad, but just lazy story, awful exposition (I mean, some of the worst I've seen in a film). But for a couple hours of stompy robots, not bad.
I've still yet to see a proper modern mecha/robot movie deliver the goods. Probably never will.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Im going all in. Loved both movies. Love the models. Rules are just a plus at this point.
I think this explains the KS. People who love it, love it because of the robots and the movies, and where individuals have dropped out I'd bet a bunch of retailers or distributors have stepped up to stock a product with name recognition.
I believe I was one of the first recipients. The paint quality is definitely better than wave 1. Cant wait for wave 3 in two years, and to never back a Riverhorse KS again!
I haven't been following, so I'm not sure if there was any drama on this one, but 2-4 years is pretty standard delivery for a Kickstarter to be honest. The only exception are companies like CMON who already heave everything complete and are just using it as a preorder system to determine the size of their print run. Anything that isn't truly final going in has at minimum 2 years before reaching backers.
I think things are going well. Have waves 1 and 2. Only issue i have is waiting another 6-8 months for wave 3 (really excited for some of the minis in that wave).
Game is great fun, and it is so much better with the options added in wave 2.
I have waited years... years.. for shadows of brimstone, kingdom death, and more to deliver. This one seems long but is delivering.
Jurassic Park? That will probably be fethed and end like robotech right tactics.
I just feel like delivery dates should be taken more seriously. If you're planning to do a KS, and make a delivery date, it should be honored. I can understand minor delays sure. But even before covid the delivery time was functionally irrelevant. It simply wasn't going to happen and didn't, so the purpose of the date given was pointless and they probably knew that from the start.
Long delays seem especially common in licensed games. The last Pacific Rim movie was years ago, I see no signs of it continuing and in any case board game revenue is chump change. So it won't be a priority for whoever has to approve it.
My personal hierarchy of KS risk is something like:
Digital products only
Single medium products (ie just miniatures, no paper product)
Mixed medium products
Licensed products
I know a company that has a turn-around time of months for their Kickstarters, but they have a phenomenal international network, a very good working relationship with a Chinese factory, and almost a captive audience.