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[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:19:54


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured




This new edition gives you everything you love about Warhammer 40,000, in less time and in less space. Using deep rules for squad customisation and specialists, you’ll be able to assemble an elite team from any faction you choose and pit them against your foes in fast-paced tactical skirmishes.

From one-off matched play battles to in-depth narrative campaigns where your fighters grow and evolve, this edition of Kill Team is a fully fledged game in its own right – it doesn’t use the existing Warhammer 40,000 rules set (but it’s just as thrilling!). Whether you’re looking to try out a new faction or explore new tactical challenges with your existing Warhammer 40,000 collection, there will be loads of great gaming opportunities for you.

What’s more, Kill Team will be released alongside a new war zone’s worth of modular battlefield terrain designed by the same team who brought you the Sector Mechanicus kits





[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:22:12


Post by: GoatboyBeta


Ah crap that terrain looks sweet


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:24:09


Post by: Hragged


Excellent!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:25:31


Post by: Us3Less


This is so awesome! I've been looking for something exactly like this. Necromunda just isn't my thing because I like the regular 40k armies too much. My wallet is going to cry though. I'm really looking forward to get more info on the terrain as well. Just finished assembling two boxes of Imperial Sector and I love the terrain style. More is very welcome!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:26:47


Post by: Valander


Dammit. Still feels weird to me to be looking forward to more GW stuff after dumping them 20 years ago. But they have been on a roll with Rountree at the head, I have to admit.

Yeah, I'll pick this up.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:27:42


Post by: H


One can play a Necron Killteam, right?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:29:36


Post by: ImAGeek


 H wrote:
One can play a Necron Killteam, right?


Correct.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:29:41


Post by: Valander


 H wrote:
One can play a Necron Killteam, right?
Looks like it, since I saw some in the video. Also saw some Thousand Sons, which is what sold it for me.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:31:51


Post by: Ghaz


Is that a D10 I see in that video? Heresy!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:32:51


Post by: Elbows


They had me at "doesn't use the existing 40K rules set".

However, I thought Shadow War was absolute crap. So the rules would need to be really good to convince me. I like the idea of 40K skirmish, but it's almost never done well. I want a good, deep skirmish game - not something which can be played in 20 minutes (that's probably attractive to some people, but not me).

The terrain (I'm assuming that new stuff in the beginning of the video) is disappointing though. Really blase. Shame.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:35:37


Post by: Lum


Well, that looks amazing. Might gonna get myself some models then. A Necron of Thousand Sun Kill Team looks fun.
Of course I am also going to build a Space Marine and Guard Team, because hey, I can


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:38:20


Post by: godswildcard


I really like that terrain. I feel like it is much better at representing standard imperial buildings then the current Sector Imperialis stuff. Mix the two and I think you’d have a great spread of city-fight terrain on the table.

Now, GW, if you’d be so kind and release that at Adepticon in a surprise move, that’d be greeeeeeeaaaaaat.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:38:35


Post by: lord_blackfang


The terrain looks a lot like they just painted the old Pegasus Hobbies modular cathedral walls white.

http://miniaturewargameconversions.blogspot.si/2011/07/adept-zero-pegasus-hobbies-unboxing.html


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:38:43


Post by: fox-light713


Ohh, looks cool. Will be looking forward to see how the rules come out.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:40:43


Post by: Talizvar


I am sorry but holy crap I must be getting old!?!
I swear I had just got kill team not that long ago and then got Shadow War Armageddon.

I know, all of which was the prior edition and needs the update.
They seem to be a bit quicker in getting all the various printed documents updated (codex and supporting game docs).

I have this strange suspicion I can copy/paste most rules and just update for the new stats.
But yeah, I can live with another update, in for a penny, in for a pound and all that.

Curious if any SWA rules for falling off raised platforms will be in there.
Due to the simplification of rules, it works wonderful with an army with a multitude of squads, but for a small team it could be a bit basic.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:43:38


Post by: GoatboyBeta


Is that a fold out flat mat/tiles(Edit- yep at least four of em)? I guess there will be a box with ruins and fold out tiles for this like the recent AoS and 40k ones.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:44:01


Post by: Talizvar


 Valander wrote:
Dammit. Still feels weird to me to be looking forward to more GW stuff after dumping them 20 years ago. But they have been on a roll with Rountree at the head, I have to admit.
Yeah, I'll pick this up.
Amen brother.
Seems only yesterday a bunch of people including myself was ready to write them off and now since 8th edition it is like the love never left.
They got me to buy 3 SWA boxes for goodness sake.
This "take my money please" situation needs to end soon.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:44:43


Post by: Yodhrin


Actual proper new rules that might get a bit closer to representing the gap between different units, and new modular terrain? SOLD.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:46:12


Post by: UNCLEBADTOUCH


Those new ruins look amazeballs. As someone with limited hobby time I'm glad to see the return of kill team.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:47:06


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 Elbows wrote:
They had me at "doesn't use the existing 40K rules set".


~fist bump bra~

It's like a Rogue Trader Second Edition...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:47:22


Post by: Valander


 Talizvar wrote:
 Valander wrote:
Dammit. Still feels weird to me to be looking forward to more GW stuff after dumping them 20 years ago. But they have been on a roll with Rountree at the head, I have to admit.
Yeah, I'll pick this up.
Amen brother.
Seems only yesterday a bunch of people including myself was ready to write them off and now since 8th edition it is like the love never left.
They got me to buy 3 SWA boxes for goodness sake.
This "take my money please" situation needs to end soon.
Yup. I dropped GW and went pretty hard core into Warmachine/Hordes (even did volunteer work for PP), but now it's like that did a full 180. I haven't touched any PP stuff for like 4 years now (since retiring as an Infernal) and AOS (post GHB) made me look at GW again, then actually play GW again. Back then I said "if they redo 40k to use more or less this engine, I'll have to get into that, too". And yup, 8th dropped and I started rebuilding my Thousand Sons of old. Now... even more reason to if Kill Team is even half decent.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:54:04


Post by: axisofentropy


Love skirmish games. I liked Shadow War but recognized room for improvement. Hope they nail these rules.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 20:56:33


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Yeah, if this really builds upon what Shadow War already started, I'm sold.

Curious as to just how much/ what units are going to be usable in this.

If it's not using 8th rules, where are we going to be going for unit info then?



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:01:17


Post by: Barzam


How were the rules in the previous version of Kill Team? The version that came with Deathwatch vs Tau? Were they just regular 40k rules with some modifications, or were they entirely different?

Also, props to GW for using Stygies troops in the reveal video.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:01:27


Post by: H.B.M.C.


What. Is. This. New. Terrain???


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:01:44


Post by: Chikout


On Facebook GW are saying that this has completely new rules with a much deeper progression system than Shadow war or old Killteam. It sounds interesting. From that video and the new paintjob it looks like we will get a boxed set featuring genestealer cults and admech.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:02:17


Post by: Mattlov


I want my 30k Death Guard to be compatible with it.

Would also be cool if Forgebane was the starter set.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:05:55


Post by: BrookM


This announcement pleases me, always been a fan of Kill Team throughout the editions.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:06:34


Post by: lord_blackfang


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What. Is. This. New. Terrain???


A slight retooling of the Pegasus Hobbies cathedral.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:07:25


Post by: Kanluwen


 Barzam wrote:
How were the rules in the previous version of Kill Team? The version that came with Deathwatch vs Tau? Were they just regular 40k rules with some modifications, or were they entirely different?

Also, props to GW for using Stygies troops in the reveal video.

Now if only we could get a damn Stygies transfer sheet.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:11:09


Post by: AegisGrimm


Sounds interesting, especially with rules that are not tied to 8th edition. I'll be eager to see if it competes for my attention with the skirmish version of Grimdark Future (used to be One Page 40k) from One Page Rules, because that game has seen decent interests with my buddies who are only casual gamers.

The best part about this is the potential where if it uses unique rules from 8th edition, I would be able to own several different Kill Teams from various races without having to shell out all the pretty tremendous costs for not only the 8th edition rules, but all those various codexes, as I don't have any reason to own 8th edition rules material in my area.

I have been wanting skirmish rules for 40k stuff, but the requirement for full-on codex purchases has kept me away from things like the BoS Kill Team rules from last edition, as I own 6 distinct armies for 40k from years past, but with no call for full-on army scale games from who I hang out with, 75% of any up to date codex is wasted cost for me, multiplied by 6.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:12:50


Post by: Irbis


Pity, I hoped for something like Shadespire (as in, new kill team models, or if they were going to use existing sprues, largely pre-defined, balanced teams from one troops box, with more in-depth rules), not something that looks like Shadow War 2.0. Maybe I am getting old but I prefer Shadespire cards than constantly cross-referencing rulebook for possible actions.

Also, the 'dozens of factions' claim is weird. Like what? Are we going to get rules for every single named SM chapter?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:16:05


Post by: axisofentropy


 Barzam wrote:
How were the rules in the previous version of Kill Team? The version that came with Deathwatch vs Tau? Were they just regular 40k rules with some modifications, or were they entirely different?
Basically 7th edition 40k with one big change: each model acted as its own unit. Then they updated rules for morale and leaders / specialists. Game was fun, tho competitive events were dominated by Tomb Blades.

The WH Community article says this new Kill Team will have its own stand-alone ruleset. Looking at the stratagems, it sure looks like models will alternate activation, a staple of all good skirmish games.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:16:23


Post by: Mymearan


 lord_blackfang wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What. Is. This. New. Terrain???


A slight retooling of the Pegasus Hobbies cathedral.


Aside from both being heavily influenced by actual gothic cathedrals, they aren’t similar at all. Windows are completely different, pillars are different, Pegasus stuff is straight medieval, GW incorporates technology etc. so unless Pegasus invented the gothic cathedral...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:16:32


Post by: BrookM


 Barzam wrote:
How were the rules in the previous version of Kill Team? The version that came with Deathwatch vs Tau? Were they just regular 40k rules with some modifications, or were they entirely different?

Also, props to GW for using Stygies troops in the reveal video.
Mostly the same core rules with some additions (every model a unit onto itself etc.) and restrictions as to what you could or could not field, like tanks and models with a 2+ armour save.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:18:20


Post by: AegisGrimm


Yeah, 7th edition Kill Team was essentially an updated 4th edition Kill Team, which was in itself a great rules variant.

I think other than what will likely be the traditional GW pricetag for the buildings, they look great.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:19:15


Post by: GoatboyBeta


 Irbis wrote:
Also, the 'dozens of factions' claim is weird. Like what? Are we going to get rules for every single named SM chapter?


The preview showed Grey knights so I'd say the chances of every current 40k faction bar Knights and Ynnari being in the game in some form are good.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:21:11


Post by: Kanluwen


GoatboyBeta wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Also, the 'dozens of factions' claim is weird. Like what? Are we going to get rules for every single named SM chapter?


The preview showed Grey knights so I'd say the chances of every current 40k faction bar Knights and Ynnari being in the game in some form are good.

Assuming it stays relatively similar to previous Kill-Team, expect there to be a cap on Wounds and Armor Saves, along with leaving out Monster/Vehicles.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:21:26


Post by: BrookM


It'll be fun to dig out my Tempestus Scions again, they started out as a small task force for the last edition of Kill Team.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:22:19


Post by: Irbis


 Barzam wrote:
How were the rules in the previous version of Kill Team? The version that came with Deathwatch vs Tau? Were they just regular 40k rules with some modifications, or were they entirely different?

That was not Deathwatch, that was just old SM squad box painted in Raven Guard colours.

And yeah, was mostly using cut down 5th edition rules. You used models from your 40K army adding up to 200 points, 3 models were granted special rule of your choice, every model was IC, it's pretty much it. Which is why I find the reveal underwhelming, it was really Listbuilding : The Game, where factions with more efficient troop choices won by pretty much default. Elites, like Sternguard, sucked, because they were nowhere near killy enough to deal with disadvantage in numbers, and the game pretty much consisted of spamming of basic troops with most cost effective gun possible.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:25:17


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


So I can possibly field a whole *TWO* Custodes as a Kill Team? Sounds about right.

Actually that might be kinda fun.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:27:13


Post by: Ghaz


 Kanluwen wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Also, the 'dozens of factions' claim is weird. Like what? Are we going to get rules for every single named SM chapter?


The preview showed Grey knights so I'd say the chances of every current 40k faction bar Knights and Ynnari being in the game in some form are good.

Assuming it stays relatively similar to previous Kill-Team, expect there to be a cap on Wounds and Armor Saves, along with leaving out Monster/Vehicles.

They do show a couple of Thunderwolves, so some larger models will be possible (fingers crossed for Necron Canoptek Wraiths and Spyders).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:27:37


Post by: judgedoug


 lord_blackfang wrote:
The terrain looks a lot like they just painted the old Pegasus Hobbies modular cathedral walls white.

http://miniaturewargameconversions.blogspot.si/2011/07/adept-zero-pegasus-hobbies-unboxing.html


Having just assembled several of those kits:

No

They are not that good. They are poorly designed.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:28:46


Post by: AegisGrimm


The ruined Pegasus cathedral bits are pretty great, I love mine.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:29:03


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I wonder if this will use the Necromunda rules?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:29:47


Post by: Kanluwen


 Ghaz wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Also, the 'dozens of factions' claim is weird. Like what? Are we going to get rules for every single named SM chapter?


The preview showed Grey knights so I'd say the chances of every current 40k faction bar Knights and Ynnari being in the game in some form are good.

Assuming it stays relatively similar to previous Kill-Team, expect there to be a cap on Wounds and Armor Saves, along with leaving out Monster/Vehicles.

They do show a couple of Thunderwolves, so some larger models will be possible (fingers crossed for Necron Canoptek Wraiths and Spyders).

IIRC, you could run Thunder Wolves before. I'm redownloading my copy of the previous ones to check.

Caveats before were:
-Could not contain vehicles. Had to include at least four models in a Kill Team. 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Elite, 0-1 Fast Attack choices.
-Could not have more than 3 Wounds or Hull Points on their profile.
-Could not have combined Armour Value of more than 33 on vehicles.
-No Flyers
-No 2+ Armour Saves.

As long as you met those criteria, you were a-ok.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:37:07


Post by: judgedoug


 Mymearan wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What. Is. This. New. Terrain???


A slight retooling of the Pegasus Hobbies cathedral.


Aside from both being heavily influenced by actual gothic cathedrals, they aren’t similar at all. Windows are completely different, pillars are different, Pegasus stuff is straight medieval, GW incorporates technology etc. so unless Pegasus invented the gothic cathedral...


YES Mymearan, GW can do NO RIGHT. Pegasus Hobbies invented gothic cathedrals. GW, in an evil quest to destroy poor Pegasus Hobbies, has actually invaded their factory, TAKEN PEGASUS' PLASTIC TOOLS, and then RETOOLED their steel molds! GW is SOOO evil that all they could do for THEIR gothic terrain was "a slight retooling of the Pegasus Hobbies cathedral."

Yup.

Looks EXACTLY the same




[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:46:18


Post by: VyRa


It was about time this happend. Really looking forward towards new skirmishes in the dark millenium.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:47:49


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


GW will have to put a lot of effort in it to reach the quality of the heralds of ruin Killteam rules. At least in 7th they totally failed with that.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:49:50


Post by: Herbington


So how long did a game typically last in the old versions? I think I am simultaneously both too old and too new a player to have seen them.

This seems like what I'm looking for though, something we can play in an hour on lunch?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:50:10


Post by: Chikout


Looks like it will be a big book. At least 204 pages. Specialists have a skill tree and can reach up to level 4. There is a scouting phase.

[Thumb - Screenshot_2018-03-15-06-35-11.png]
[Thumb - Screenshot_2018-03-15-06-34-23.png]


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:50:32


Post by: zedmeister


New terrain. Nice...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:50:56


Post by: BrookM


Herbington wrote:
So how long did a game typically last in the old versions? I think I am simultaneously both too old and too new a player to have seen them.

This seems like what I'm looking for though, something we can play in an hour on lunch?
If your opponent is not a scatterbrain or an donkey-cave, a game could easily be played in 30 minutes or less.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:52:13


Post by: Herbington


 BrookM wrote:
Herbington wrote:
So how long did a game typically last in the old versions? I think I am simultaneously both too old and too new a player to have seen them.

This seems like what I'm looking for though, something we can play in an hour on lunch?
If your opponent is not a scatterbrain or an donkey-cave, a game could easily be played in 30 minutes or less.


Thanks - then I guess I am sold!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 21:57:57


Post by: Azreal13


 Yodhrin wrote:
Actual proper new rules that might get a bit closer to representing the gap between different units, and new modular terrain? SOLD.


This.

But not sold yet, too many failures betwixt announcement and release to commit that much enthusiasm yet.

But soon.

Soon.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:06:17


Post by: Mr_Rose


I spy d10s on that board. How radical a departure are we really on?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:08:22


Post by: ElvisJuice


Probably wound counters or order dice type thing, there are D6es there too


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:12:54


Post by: Popsghostly


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
So I can possibly field a whole *TWO* Custodes as a Kill Team? Sounds about right.

Actually that might be kinda fun.


Ha ha. I was thinking the same thing. Easy painting tonight!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:13:48


Post by: Aesthete


This looks excellent.

I am optimistic. Not just cautiously optimistic, but plain old optimistic.

I've found myself spending more money on GW stuff than I have for a while, and I'm okay with that....


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:17:55


Post by: Crimson


I really, REALLY hope that this is good and has very flexible team creation rules. Armageddon was super disappointing. I want to make weird Inquisimunda style teams.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:18:56


Post by: Arachnofiend


I'm probably an outlier here but I hope this is simple enough where I can play it with my family (they're pretty deep into board games but miniature wargaming is a step too far I think).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:21:33


Post by: Latro_


anyone spot the new terrain is kinda like a refresh of 3ed's from 1998

[Thumb - s-l400.jpg]


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:22:30


Post by: ElvisJuice


If there will be organised play (which according to the announcement there will) to my mind that means the customisation will probably be minimal so they can balance it easier but I could very well be wrong.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:22:42


Post by: Yodhrin


 Latro_ wrote:
anyone spot the new terrain is kinda like a refresh of 3ed's from 1998


Which is apt, since I think the first KT I do for the new rules will be truescale Black Templars based on the 3rd Ed box art

EDIT: "Organised play" doesn't have to mean "tournaments" though, it could be support for hosting campaign events or short-form leagues.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:33:24


Post by: ElvisJuice


So far with GW "Organised Play" does mean tournaments.
Spoiler:


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 22:33:46


Post by: ImAGeek


 Crimson wrote:
I really, REALLY hope that this is good and has very flexible team creation rules. Armageddon was super disappointing. I want to make weird Inquisimunda style teams.


That’s what I’m hoping for too.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 23:07:05


Post by: Chairman Aeon


One Page 40K showed you could cover a lot of stuff in a small page count. What I really expect though is SWA through the looking glass. It could be Necromunda 2018 like with rules for common 40K troops to be a getaway game, or maybe even simpler rules with better customization/advancement stuff (than SWA).

I mean there is a lot of models shown in that video and it's stated it's to Warhammer 40K and its own game. If Codexes are needed then that won't technically be true, so...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 23:28:57


Post by: Yodhrin


ElvisJuice wrote:
So far with GW "Organised Play" does mean tournaments.
Spoiler:


For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 23:51:23


Post by: Racerguy180


This looks interesting, I'm excited for the terrain. Rules-wise I'll have go wait & see.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/14 23:52:45


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
A slight retooling of the Pegasus Hobbies cathedral.
That's obviously not even slightly true.

I own a lot of Pegasus Hobbies terrain. It's wonderful stuff. This stuff isn't the same.

 Latro_ wrote:
anyone spot the new terrain is kinda like a refresh of 3ed's from 1998
First thing that came to my mind. An update of that stuff.




[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 04:50:46


Post by: MadCowCrazy


This popped up on my facebook feed.

Apparently GW model with clear plastic shield?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 04:56:10


Post by: Kalamadea


I'm absolutely stoked for this. I've tried foryears to get people into the Heralds of Ruin Kill Team which is bloody fantastic, but it's like pulling teeth. We've played a lot more Shadow War Armageddon in my group mostly because it's a single book to pick up, despite the rules and the campaign not being as good as the HoR:KT.

This sounds like an excellent middleground between SW:A and HoR:KT. I'm also excited that it will be it's own dedicated system and not a weak bolt-on job like the old official Kill Team rules have always been. They did a solid job on Necromunda, but te best part of 40K is the aliens. I'll take Eldar and Orks or Necrons vs Tau over humans vs very slightly different humans any day of the week


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 05:34:55


Post by: Dandelion


HA! I think that the Scion has a broken antenna in the video. I'm glad I'm not the only one... (at 0:34)

Anyway, looking forward to this.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 07:54:39


Post by: Mr_Rose


 MadCowCrazy wrote:
This popped up on my facebook feed.

Apparently GW model with clear plastic shield?

That’s a screencap from the Van Saar reveal video.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 08:21:26


Post by: schoon


I think that GW has learned from Shadespire that booth skirmish rules and competitive play have legs in today's market.

Folks want smaller model counts, solid rule sets, and games you can play in less than an afternoon.

So I'm not surprised that their ongoing experiments to bring this to 40K have continued (I'm looking at you SWA and Necromunda).

I love that they're looking at this from both a role-play and competitive aspect.

...and new terrain always = win in my book.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 08:34:38


Post by: kodos


It would be amazing if this would be GW's competitive version of 40k
But I don't believe that it would ever have a chance to attract people in the 40k tournament scene as an alternative


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 08:36:34


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Guess it's time to sell the Shadow War book huh?

Color me interested.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 08:39:45


Post by: ElvisJuice


 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.


Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 09:02:54


Post by: Chopstick


Maybe we can bring a normal Dreadnought this time around.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 09:17:14


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Herbington wrote:
So how long did a game typically last in the old versions? I think I am simultaneously both too old and too new a player to have seen them.

This seems like what I'm looking for though, something we can play in an hour on lunch?


It started in 4th edition with the fan-made "40k in 40minutes". The 6th and 7th edition Kill Team rules were even smaller than that (40ki40m was 400 points; Kill Team was 200). I've had really quick games of 7th edition Kill Team, with the odd one that went on for ages because the last two guys couldn't complete the objective.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 09:26:38


Post by: Stormonu


If this turns out to be SW:A +, my son and I will be picking it up. Maybe not any models, but at least the rules.

Thanks for pointing out the Pegasus Hobbies models - This is my buying month, will probably pick some up for the city fights I've been wanting to run.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 09:29:12


Post by: SKR.HH


I'm wondering if Bottle is involved in this...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 09:33:47


Post by: AndrewGPaul


The previous Kill Team rules had something similar, so I expect so. Probably not exactly like Necromunda, though.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 11:01:54


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Stormonu wrote:
If this turns out to be SW:A +, my son and I will be picking it up. Maybe not any models, but at least the rules.

Thanks for pointing out the Pegasus Hobbies models - This is my buying month, will probably pick some up for the city fights I've been wanting to run.


For what it's worth I strongly recommend Pegasus, easy to use, looks good lots of possibilities.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-518-890_Happy%20Acres.html


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 11:04:48


Post by: Mymearan


Pegasus are great, I haven’t found a good, cheap source for them in Europe though. I bought my cathedral kit second hand. Though I suspect the new GW ruins will eclipse them both in quality in price, there is still a place for Pegasus if you want to build intact buildings of some height.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 12:13:47


Post by: Vertrucio


I'll believe it when it's still a supported product in 1 year after release. This isn't the first time Kill Team or something like it has shown back up on market with a lot of promises, and no delivery.

Then again, they could be trying to do for 40k what Shadespire is doing for AoS.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 12:33:44


Post by: fresus


So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

In any case, I'm pretty hyped. Especially if the campaign system is decent, but not too deep, so it's possible to play somewhat balanced games with warbands that have a very different number of games under their belt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vertrucio wrote:
I'll believe it when it's still a supported product in 1 year after release. This isn't the first time Kill Team or something like it has shown back up on market with a lot of promises, and no delivery.

7th ed. Kill team was pretty lazy, and a rulebook that could have been written in an hour. It was just "each model is its own unit" plus basic limitations on what you can bring.
Here it's clear they put some effort. It doesn't mean they'll necessarily support it for a long time, but it's encouraging.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 13:20:19


Post by: Ghaz


ElvisJuice wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.


Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).

Organised Play section of the Warhammer Underworlds website, showing what 'organised play' for Kill Team will probably entail.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 13:26:04


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


YES! I had started a Kill Team back when and then 8th happened and I shelved it. Time to crack back out those Emperor's Children and shout vigorously at my enemies until I win.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:06:49


Post by: Yodhrin


 Vertrucio wrote:
I'll believe it when it's still a supported product in 1 year after release. This isn't the first time Kill Team or something like it has shown back up on market with a lot of promises, and no delivery.

Then again, they could be trying to do for 40k what Shadespire is doing for AoS.


Honestly I'm not even remotely fussed about it being "supported". Indeed, if N17 is what "supported" means these days, I'd rather it wasn't. I like a nice, comprehensive, one and done purchase, and if the game is good people will play it. Not the newshiny chasers who *need* a new release every quarter to maintain their interest, but enough people that the rules will be worth paying for.


 Ghaz wrote:
ElvisJuice wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.


Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).

Organised Play section of the Warhammer Underworlds website, showing what 'organised play' for Kill Team will probably entail.


So your answer to my post specifically pointing out that Shadespire is an explicitly competitive ruleset and so needn't necessarily be the model for organised play for a game that by the hints will be about building your own guys and advancing them over the course of a campaign Necromunda-style, is to just post a link to the Shadespire site?

Organised play means exactly that, play that is organised. It doesn't have to mean "tournament" or any other specific kind of event, it's just a framework of support put in place by the game's makers to promote and expand the game. If they'd been presenting this as "Shadespire 40,000" then yeah, sure, assuming competitive tournaments as the model would be a safe bet, but doing those for a narrative campaign skirmish game would only demonstrate they have a terminal lack of imagination.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:17:33


Post by: Ghaz


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
ElvisJuice wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.


Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).

Organised Play section of the Warhammer Underworlds website, showing what 'organised play' for Kill Team will probably entail.


So your answer to my post specifically pointing out that Shadespire is an explicitly competitive ruleset and so needn't necessarily be the model for organised play for a game that by the hints will be about building your own guys and advancing them over the course of a campaign Necromunda-style, is to just post a link to the Shadespire site?

Organised play means exactly that, play that is organised. It doesn't have to mean "tournament" or any other specific kind of event, it's just a framework of support put in place by the game's makers to promote and expand the game. If they'd been presenting this as "Shadespire 40,000" then yeah, sure, assuming competitive tournaments as the model would be a safe bet, but doing those for a narrative campaign skirmish game would only demonstrate they have a terminal lack of imagination.

I gave you what GW defines as 'Organised Play' in regards to Shadespire. Can you give an example where GW has defined 'Organised Play' as something else?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:17:36


Post by: Myrthe


This is great news !! I love Kill Team and skirmish-sized games !!

I wonder if the Van Saar can be used in Kill Team ? And if there will be some rules crossover between it and Necromunda. I've been waiting for Van Saars to pick that game up again (wanted to make sure they supported the game with more gangs).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:23:22


Post by: FrozenDwarf


very good.
while armageddon is nice, it dont follow 8th rules so it is a bit of a mess, and necro has no connection to 40k other then beeing in the same universe.

i prefer skirimsh size over army size anyways so this is a buy.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:35:25


Post by: Insane Ivan


Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).

Myrthe wrote:This is great news !! I love Kill Team and skirmish-sized games !!

I wonder if the Van Saar can be used in Kill Team ? And if there will be some rules crossover between it and Necromunda. I've been waiting for Van Saars to pick that game up again (wanted to make sure they supported the game with more gangs).

I wouldn't expect Van Saar to be available as a gang in Kill Team, but they'd sure make great Imperial Guard/Tempestus proxies, or inquisitorial acolytes/henchmen (assuming that we will see the inquisition in Kill Team, of course).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:46:18


Post by: TalonZahn


Given the HUGE gains that Boardgaming has made in the market, it shouldn't surprise any one too much that GW is/has been, pushing a lot of Skirmish sized games as well as Boxed Game sets.

Thanks to companies like CMON, Monolith, etc.. making quality boardgames with good miniatures is really big right now.

All GW had to do was take their top shelf minis and build games around them.

This is also a great way to get people in deeper with their existing systems. You can "try out" armies, units, etc. on a smale scale. If you get hooked on one, maybe you'll build that force up.

I love it beacuse I can use multiple minis for multiple games. Lots of stuff can be used in Necromunda, Kill Team, Shadspire, AoS, 40k, and so on. Things like Imperial Guard, GSC, Skitarii, Kahadaron Overlords, yadd yadda..


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:46:27


Post by: Imateria


 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).


By some time you mean a week.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 15:57:35


Post by: Insane Ivan


 Imateria wrote:
 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).


By some time you mean a week.

Sure, I didn't really remember the exact period, but it was very soon indeed - didn't mean to imply otherwise.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 16:17:59


Post by: Yodhrin


 Ghaz wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
ElvisJuice wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.


Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).

Organised Play section of the Warhammer Underworlds website, showing what 'organised play' for Kill Team will probably entail.


So your answer to my post specifically pointing out that Shadespire is an explicitly competitive ruleset and so needn't necessarily be the model for organised play for a game that by the hints will be about building your own guys and advancing them over the course of a campaign Necromunda-style, is to just post a link to the Shadespire site?

Organised play means exactly that, play that is organised. It doesn't have to mean "tournament" or any other specific kind of event, it's just a framework of support put in place by the game's makers to promote and expand the game. If they'd been presenting this as "Shadespire 40,000" then yeah, sure, assuming competitive tournaments as the model would be a safe bet, but doing those for a narrative campaign skirmish game would only demonstrate they have a terminal lack of imagination.

I gave you what GW defines as 'Organised Play' in regards to Shadespire. Can you give an example where GW has defined 'Organised Play' as something else?


"In regards to Shadespire" being the rather key point that you keep wandering past. Shadespire is an explicitly competitive game with fixed warbands and limited deckbuilder-based customisation, this new KT game has been indicated to be a progression and narrative focused system with custom "warbands", so why would GW, which recently has been demonstrating a remarkable amount of sanity and common sense given its history, treat those two entirely different experiences the same way when it comes to event support?

And you know I can't give you an example of that, because GW have never, to my knowledge, even used the specific words "organised play" before Shadespire. What they have done is operate extensive(and at times less so) networks of event support which were in no way limited to tournaments. So now we're past the diversionary semantics, care to address the actual point?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 16:27:55


Post by: kestral


I love Pegasus buildings, but it isn't fair to trash the ones in the video. Those look great for those of us who don't have a skull and pipe obsession.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 21:59:33


Post by: AegisGrimm


One of my largest worries, though, is Kill Team being released like Necromunda. There's no information so far about how many warband lists are actually in the rulebook, so we still might be seeing all the available faction dribbled out in seperate publications over months with 'additional rules' to sustain cash flow. So a player wanting an Orc Kill Team might have to wait 6 months after the main game comes out to even get their rules.

It's a bummer, as I really want to be geeked about this. I haven't bought rules material since 5th edition (but still bought minis to paint), but Kill Team could get me back in, as with two kids and less time, skirmish games are where it's at for me.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 22:06:14


Post by: BrookM


Going over the trailer, there is stuff like Nerve tests, though this could be a reworded bottle test or whatever for when you lose X-% of your team.

Kill Teams are made through choosing a FACTION keyword and kill teams must be Battle-forged, so no soup then. I think the book itself will clearly list all the options available to each faction.

The campaign has resources in play, these are some shown in the trailer: Morale, Material, Territory and Intelligence.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 22:11:20


Post by: Ghaz


 BrookM wrote:
Kill Teams are made through choosing a FACTION keyword and kill teams must be Battle-forged, so no soup then. I think the book itself will clearly list all the options available to each faction.

'Soup' lists in 40K are Battle-forged since there are faction keywords such as IMPERIUM or CHAOS. Personally I don't believe 'soup' lists will be in Kill Team, but so far nothing we've seen specifically clarifies the matter.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 22:12:38


Post by: BrookM


One can hope.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/15 23:53:31


Post by: Tpiddy


I am so excited for this.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 01:16:23


Post by: Maniac_nmt


An all battle suit Tau option, even stealth could sure tempt me


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 06:53:41


Post by: BrookM


I still have nightmares about Stealth teams in KT.

Tempestus Scions for me, special snowflake squad go!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 07:14:15


Post by: Ben2


Tempestus Scions using the new Van Saar models. Hmmm.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 07:21:19


Post by: Oguhmek


Excellent opportunity to use the few Sisters of Battle models I have painted.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 08:12:03


Post by: fresus


 Insane Ivan wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).


By some time you mean a week.

Sure, I didn't really remember the exact period, but it was very soon indeed - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

It was pretty quick yes. But mostly because the box set sold out, so many people had no way of getting into the game. They didn't plan on releasing the rulebook separately at first.
And with Necromunda they still haven't. So I'm worried we'll see the same trend.
Everyone who plays 40K has enough models/terrain to play KT. Convincing someone to buy a small rulebook to get into a new game with the models they already own is much easier than convincing them to buy a huge box full of models they don't intend to use. I suspect GW will go for the no-book option, to try and sell as many boxes as possible, but that's not necessarily healthy for the game.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 08:42:18


Post by: schoon


Has there been any news/rumors of when this is all going down?

My haphazard guess would be late summer, but that's based on nothing real...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 08:53:59


Post by: BrookM


Other than this year, nothing yet.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 09:07:05


Post by: JohnnyHell


fresus wrote:
 Insane Ivan wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).


By some time you mean a week.

Sure, I didn't really remember the exact period, but it was very soon indeed - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

It was pretty quick yes. But mostly because the box set sold out, so many people had no way of getting into the game. They didn't plan on releasing the rulebook separately at first.
And with Necromunda they still haven't. So I'm worried we'll see the same trend.
Everyone who plays 40K has enough models/terrain to play KT. Convincing someone to buy a small rulebook to get into a new game with the models they already own is much easier than convincing them to buy a huge box full of models they don't intend to use. I suspect GW will go for the no-book option, to try and sell as many boxes as possible, but that's not necessarily healthy for the game.


Unlikely to really be supported either, on recent precedent. A nice box of terrain and a book, sell it through, rebox terrain in smaller chunks and profit. Let Kill Team concept itself be a nostalgia-based way of driving sales, and let it fizzle out after release. Hope to be proven wrong but after SW:A and the five minutes the previous KT was valid for I don't have high hopes!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 09:27:12


Post by: Vorian


Looks more like the ones they'll be supporting to me - Shadespire, Blood bowl, Necromunda. If they say there's to be organised play it looks like they'll get more effort than SW or whatever the Dark Eldar game was called!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 10:09:39


Post by: Kirasu


Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 10:23:12


Post by: CassianSol


 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


Shadow War's rules were awful because they were just the old Necromunda with a couple of very minor tweaks (Unless I'm wildly misremembering).

If they approach this with the same rigour that they did Shadespire, that would be excellent.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 10:46:21


Post by: Mr Morden


 Kalamadea wrote:
I'm absolutely stoked for this. I've tried foryears to get people into the Heralds of Ruin Kill Team which is bloody fantastic, but it's like pulling teeth. We've played a lot more Shadow War Armageddon in my group mostly because it's a single book to pick up, despite the rules and the campaign not being as good as the HoR:KT.

This sounds like an excellent middleground between SW:A and HoR:KT. I'm also excited that it will be it's own dedicated system and not a weak bolt-on job like the old official Kill Team rules have always been. They did a solid job on Necromunda, but te best part of 40K is the aliens. I'll take Eldar and Orks or Necrons vs Tau over humans vs very slightly different humans any day of the week


Tried and liked Heralds - but as you say people prefer "official" rules even if they are inferior.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 10:56:12


Post by: Strg Alt


 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


Yep, just take a look to their main skirmish game Necromunda. GW has proven it again and again that they don´t give a damn about their rules. I can´t understand why people are so hyped about this new game because the rules will be either shallow or full of mistakes.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 11:28:52


Post by: Insane Ivan


 Strg Alt wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


Yep, just take a look to their main skirmish game Necromunda. GW has proven it again and again that they don´t give a damn about their rules. I can´t understand why people are so hyped about this new game because the rules will be either shallow or full of mistakes.

Honestly, for me it's just that I want a skirmish game like Necromunda, but with main 40k factions (the Necromunda gangs are great, but not the stuff I love about 40k). I've no time to invest in setting up complete armies (and I can't choose just one army, there's too many I like one way or another), so a chance at an official 40k game where I can build a small force of the models I like, is good enough for me. Of course I hope for good rules (to me, that means technically simple, with lots of room for narrative, but I understand opinions on that can vary), but that's really not the main factor here - I rarely play anything outside of Shadespire anyway (and that's one where the rules are excellent).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:10:27


Post by: Strg Alt


 Insane Ivan wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


Yep, just take a look to their main skirmish game Necromunda. GW has proven it again and again that they don´t give a damn about their rules. I can´t understand why people are so hyped about this new game because the rules will be either shallow or full of mistakes.

Honestly, for me it's just that I want a skirmish game like Necromunda, but with main 40k factions (the Necromunda gangs are great, but not the stuff I love about 40k). I've no time to invest in setting up complete armies (and I can't choose just one army, there's too many I like one way or another), so a chance at an official 40k game where I can build a small force of the models I like, is good enough for me. Of course I hope for good rules (to me, that means technically simple, with lots of room for narrative, but I understand opinions on that can vary), but that's really not the main factor here - I rarely play anything outside of Shadespire anyway (and that's one where the rules are excellent).


Why don´t you try to get your hands on the Shadowwar Armageddon ruleset? It will be cheaper than to invest in the new Kill Team stuff.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:18:59


Post by: Elbows


Because Shadow War is a really weak game with pathetically tiny army lists.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:21:52


Post by: Crimson


 AegisGrimm wrote:
One of my largest worries, though, is Kill Team being released like Necromunda. There's no information so far about how many warband lists are actually in the rulebook, so we still might be seeing all the available faction dribbled out in seperate publications over months with 'additional rules' to sustain cash flow. So a player wanting an Orc Kill Team might have to wait 6 months after the main game comes out to even get their rules.

The main reason why Necromunda rules are released that way is that they don't want to release the rules before the models are ready and that doesn't apply here.




[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:24:00


Post by: Insane Ivan


 Strg Alt wrote:
 Insane Ivan wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


Yep, just take a look to their main skirmish game Necromunda. GW has proven it again and again that they don´t give a damn about their rules. I can´t understand why people are so hyped about this new game because the rules will be either shallow or full of mistakes.

Honestly, for me it's just that I want a skirmish game like Necromunda, but with main 40k factions (the Necromunda gangs are great, but not the stuff I love about 40k). I've no time to invest in setting up complete armies (and I can't choose just one army, there's too many I like one way or another), so a chance at an official 40k game where I can build a small force of the models I like, is good enough for me. Of course I hope for good rules (to me, that means technically simple, with lots of room for narrative, but I understand opinions on that can vary), but that's really not the main factor here - I rarely play anything outside of Shadespire anyway (and that's one where the rules are excellent).


Why don´t you try to get your hands on the Shadowwar Armageddon ruleset? It will be cheaper than to invest in the new Kill Team stuff.

Got it already, and it scratches that itch, but I think it could be more, if you know what I mean? I haven't bought into main 40k rules for years, so I do have some money I could burn on Kill Team (and, unrelated to the rules, but if what's in the video is also what's in the box set - Skitarii, Genestealer Neophytes, terrain - then that's also stuff I'd personally would like to have).

Now, if it turns out that in order to play this version of Kill Team you also need the Codex of the faction(s) you want to play, that might kill it for me - too many books.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:25:46


Post by: Crimson


 Ghaz wrote:

'Soup' lists in 40K are Battle-forged since there are faction keywords such as IMPERIUM or CHAOS. Personally I don't believe 'soup' lists will be in Kill Team, but so far nothing we've seen specifically clarifies the matter.

I really hope the soup is in. I want to make a weird mixed Inquisitorial warband. An inquisitor, a (primaris) Deathwatch marine, a tech-priest, an assassin and then some mooks.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:33:05


Post by: kodos


You don't need soup for this as that would be (or better was) how Inquisition as a faction works.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:34:03


Post by: Mr Morden


Now, if it turns out that in order to play this version of Kill Team you also need the Codex of the faction(s) you want to play, that might kill it for me - too many books.


I am assuming there are no rules for actual units in the book - they will all be from the codexes?

Maybe faction related Stratagems, equipment etc - if so I hope they cover ALL factions.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:44:20


Post by: Legiocustodes


A new game... some cool new rules to field a small amount of models at Skirmish level. Some great new terrain and exciting way to use my existing forces.

Hmmmm yep.... I can see why some people are complaining!!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:45:44


Post by: AndrewGPaul


If the rules are different, then the Codexes probably won't be any use, so the stats will be included in the game.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 12:53:07


Post by: Mr Morden


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If the rules are different, then the Codexes probably won't be any use, so the stats will be included in the game.


Agreed but that then likely means small number of factions (Mainly Marines) at launch like Necromunda/ Shadespire?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 13:43:42


Post by: alextroy


Not necessarily. Rules follow models. If KT uses existing models there is no reason to delay rules.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:07:14


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I'm not sure how you got from the video featuring Skitarii, Genestealer Cult, Tempestus Scions and Tau to "mostly Marines".


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:07:50


Post by: Vorian


 Strg Alt wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


Yep, just take a look to their main skirmish game Necromunda. GW has proven it again and again that they don´t give a damn about their rules. I can´t understand why people are so hyped about this new game because the rules will be either shallow or full of mistakes.


There's nothing wrong with the rules for Necromunda, the problem is in the quality control of the publications. They need to be properly proofread, it's not that they need to outsource rules.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:08:04


Post by: Kanluwen


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If the rules are different, then the Codexes probably won't be any use, so the stats will be included in the game.

I wouldn't expect that to be the case. Stats are, as of now, intended to be part of your model's boxes whenever they get reboxed.

I am also a bit wary of the "dozens of factions" claim. Basically every faction outside of Knights was able to work before, maybe Kill Team will be a bit stricter with faction keywords?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:10:32


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Stats for 8th edition 40k, yes. But they've said that this new Kill Team will be using different rules. I suppose they could repack all the boxes (or at least, all the Troops, Fast Attack and Elites boxes) again, but I doubt it.

The rules could use the same stat lines but function differently, I suppose; you could use the existing 8th edition stat line and use the Necromunda rules with only a few changes needed.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:12:13


Post by: Mr Morden


 alextroy wrote:
Not necessarily. Rules follow models. If KT uses existing models there is no reason to delay rules.


So are you thinking all basic/Elite troop types in the initial rule book for all factions? It will be thick book if you go beyond that?





[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:16:36


Post by: Insane Ivan


 Kanluwen wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If the rules are different, then the Codexes probably won't be any use, so the stats will be included in the game.

I wouldn't expect that to be the case. Stats are, as of now, intended to be part of your model's boxes whenever they get reboxed.

I am also a bit wary of the "dozens of factions" claim. Basically every faction outside of Knights was able to work before, maybe Kill Team will be a bit stricter with faction keywords?

Maybe they include the various Regiments, Septs, Craftworlds, Chapters, Dynasties, Forge Worlds, etc. as a separate "factions"? That would move up the number real quick.

Anyway, so far, in the video we saw:
1. Skitarii Vanguard
2. Genestealer Cult Neophytes
3. Militarum Tempestus
4. Tau Fire Warriors
5. Drukhari Wyches
6. Space Wolves (including Thunderwolves)
7. Ork Boyz
8. Grey Knights
9. Necron Immortals
10. Thousand Sons
11. Death Guard (including poxwalkers)

So 11 factions, and counting...? Interestingly, no normal Space Marines (or Primaris) in sight.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:27:26


Post by: Albino Squirrel


 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


As a gamer first, you aren't really their target customer.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:34:19


Post by: fresus


About the high number of factions, they could very well split some codex into subfactions.
Wych, Kabalites and Covens could be three separate factions for instance. Orks could have boyz, kult of speed, and gretchins. Skitarii be different from Cult mechanicus etc.
A troop + 1-2 special kits is enough for KT. Especially if the troop kit has multiple options.

From the video, it seems that each faction drew its models from a single infantry kit, just like in SW:A for the basic factions. I suspect they'll emphasize this in KT too.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 14:49:03


Post by: Mr Morden


fresus wrote:
About the high number of factions, they could very well split some codex into subfactions.
Wych, Kabalites and Covens could be three separate factions for instance. Orks could have boyz, kult of speed, and gretchins. Skitarii be different from Cult mechanicus etc.
A troop + 1-2 special kits is enough for KT. Especially if the troop kit has multiple options.

From the video, it seems that each faction drew its models from a single infantry kit, just like in SW:A for the basic factions. I suspect they'll emphasize this in KT too.


There are the Thunderwolves and Pow Walkers in the video as well.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 15:10:13


Post by: kodos


 Mr Morden wrote:

So are you thinking all basic/Elite troop types in the initial rule book for all factions? It will be thick book if you go beyond that?

why should that be the case?
other games get all their rules including faction profiles in 100-150 pages (unlike you want just 2 unit profiles per page like the index books)

looks like KT has about 200 so would possible


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.


As a gamer first, you aren't really their target customer.


with small amounts of models per team and organised play support, gamers are the main target customer for KT


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 15:49:04


Post by: MrMoustaffa


 Mr Morden wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
Not necessarily. Rules follow models. If KT uses existing models there is no reason to delay rules.


So are you thinking all basic/Elite troop types in the initial rule book for all factions? It will be thick book if you go beyond that?




There's a lot of games these days that put every army list in their main book. Granted most games don't have dozens of mini factions like 40k has but considering what can be taken in kill team, you could absolutely make that work.

I mean think about a codex, how many pages of that are actually taken up by rules? You've got a page for wargear and stat profiles, a page for a couple if army special rules and warlord traits, maybe some strategems or army specific skills, and then about a page per every unit or two.

If they release everything in one book it also greatly eases buy in. In addition it lets people like me, who could see themselves owning multiple teams but not planning on making them full armies, go ham with it since we don't need 5 more codexes that we otherwise wouldn't use.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 15:52:07


Post by: Bobthehero


Interesting, that will depend if its own thing rulewise or if they went of the way of Necromunda and Shadow War, which would be a shame.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 15:56:14


Post by: Mr Morden


I don't mind it all in one book - Shadow War had a couple of units per Primary faction and then some unique models.

So if you went:

Page 1 intro and pic
Page 2-3 Units, rules and stats blocks ( Couple of infantry units and couple of Elite/FA?"
Page 4 Sub factions, stratagems, abilities etc

We have what 29 Primary Factions listed on the 40k site - lets ignore Ynari as a Primary so 28.

so 112 pages - doable but chunky book.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 16:06:46


Post by: Insane Ivan


 Mr Morden wrote:
I don't mind it all in one book - Shadow War had a couple of units per Primary faction and then some unique models.

So if you went:

Page 1 intro and pic
Page 2-3 Units, rules and stats blocks ( Couple of infantry units and couple of Elite/FA?"
Page 4 Sub factions, stratagems, abilities etc

We have what 29 Primary Factions listed on the 40k site - lets ignore Ynari as a Primary so 28.

so 112 pages - doable but chunky book.

We already know the book's about 200 pages, so that would fit with still about 90 pages or so for the game's rules, obligatory background bits, pics, etc.

I think we can disregard Imperial and Renegade Knights as factions too, but that still leaves 26, which fits the "dozens" of factions.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 17:21:01


Post by: Barzam


You know what would be nice? Stat cards, like they did with the 8th Edition starter boxes. That way you could cut down on the info that has to be shoved into the book. Put out a box of nicely printed, glossy stat cards for the various units for those looking to expand beyond the Skitarii and Genestealer cultists that come in the box. Throw in downloadable pdfs for everything as well on the website and you're golden.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 17:56:53


Post by: Chairman Aeon


Hey, remember when they launched Age of Sigmar or make cool characters for other games and rules appear as downloads on their page. Wouldn't it be good to roll out squad lists like that. It can extend the life of the game by adding a page or two of rules for the squad they want to add to Kill Team without have a 500 page rule book.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 18:34:31


Post by: axisofentropy


fresus wrote:
About the high number of factions, they could very well split some codex into subfactions.
Wych, Kabalites and Covens could be three separate factions for instance. Orks could have boyz, kult of speed, and gretchins. Skitarii be different from Cult mechanicus etc.
A troop + 1-2 special kits is enough for KT. Especially if the troop kit has multiple options.

From the video, it seems that each faction drew its models from a single infantry kit, just like in SW:A for the basic factions. I suspect they'll emphasize this in KT too.
this is what's gonna happen


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 19:05:28


Post by: Insane Ivan


U/SKWAAAARK on Reddit took the trouble of transcribing the rules pages shown in the video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/84tuiv/8th_ed_official_kill_team_rules_preview/?st=JEUATIC1&sh=7f6e730d

It’s clear that the rules for each unit are at least not drawn from their codex, as they have “datasheets” which list the “specialisms” available to them. The game also has datacards like Necromunda.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 19:15:38


Post by: MrMoustaffa


Alright if we're doing datacards that's going be huge. That means way less money needing to be spent on codexes and more money spent on models.

Oh god, I'm going to have so many weird little fringe teams if this game is good


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 19:23:57


Post by: warboss


That might get me to check it out. I have no interest anymore in chasing codex books that are only good for 2-3 years on average.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 19:37:10


Post by: kodos


 warboss wrote:
books that are only good for 2-3 years on average.

if it just would be valid for 2 years
it is more like 6 month at the moment


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 19:58:00


Post by: Talizvar


MrMoustaffa wrote:Alright if we're doing datacards that's going be huge. That means way less money needing to be spent on codexes and more money spent on models.
Oh god, I'm going to have so many weird little fringe teams if this game is good
With SOA I already fell right into that trap.
Had absolutely no army for that squad but the starter boxes start looking good... it is like the starter drug of armies.
kodos wrote:
 warboss wrote:
books that are only good for 2-3 years on average.

if it just would be valid for 2 years
it is more like 6 month at the moment
That is the #1 pain of it all.
Time is flashing past too quick and it feels like you barely got the book and you barely got your first stab at a kill team or army together...



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/16 22:16:04


Post by: AegisGrimm


 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Alright if we're doing datacards that's going be huge. That means way less money needing to be spent on codexes and more money spent on models.

Oh god, I'm going to have so many weird little fringe teams if this game is good


That's pretty much my opinion. If I have to buy several 8th edition codex books to field multiple warbands in Kill Team, there's no way I'll ever touch it. I'll stick with One Page Rules and play Grimdark Future: Skirmish with the optional campaign rules for free, and it's a pretty damn fun little game, too.

If everything"s in the 200pg rulebook? Then hell yeah, I'm seriously interested.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 07:01:39


Post by: Ben2


It's all in the rulebook because Kill Team is a different set of rules.

In the video they are using D10s. It's a different and self contained game.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 08:08:21


Post by: Marleymoo


I wonder if the different play mats will be released separately like the blood bowl pitches?

I didn't really like the idea of card mats until I saw the new aos box set (Blasted Hallowheart), I was very impressed with the quality of that.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 08:09:06


Post by: schoon


I suspect from Shadespire and Necromunda that they're going to have stat/data cards for your kill team that week be a separate purchase item.

...and I'm fine with that.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 09:39:21


Post by: zamerion


Reading the rules of the video It reminds me a lot of 8edition with some things of necromunda.

There are mortal wounds and command points.

There is nerve test, and moods as out of action and shaken.

Also this :
Use this Tactic in the Fight phase, after attacking with a model from your kill team. Pick a Combat specialist from your kill team that has not yet attacked this phase: you can immediately fight with them.

suggests that it will be by alternative models activations



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 13:11:47


Post by: AegisGrimm


Both Stat cards and alternate activations would be great to see. I've always had more fun with games that use alternate activations.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 13:41:16


Post by: Oguhmek


That sounds really great. I love how Necromunda plays with priority and alternate activation, and it will be awesome to play a skirmish game like this with my Orks.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 16:49:00


Post by: Uriels_Flame


TL : DR

What happens to Armageddon??

Aren’t they pretty much the same thing?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 17:44:46


Post by: kodos


No, Shadow War Armageddon is Necromunda with Commandos instead of Gangs

This is organised play, small scale 40k


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 21:46:49


Post by: ritualnet


Kill team would be my game to play. I dont want a full army, i want to personalise each trooper so this is perfect for me


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 21:57:14


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


I’m reserving judgement on this until I see more details. It sounds like it could be right up my street, but it depends on just how small scale it is.

If it’s basically just infantry then I’d rather be playing Necromunda. I want small scale but still be able to use things like Dreadnoughts and small vehicles.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 22:11:32


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I want small scale but still be able to use things like Dreadnoughts and small vehicles.


Ya, would be neat to see something like Infinity for the 40K universe.

We probably won't see something as 'expansive' as SWA. I'd love to take a troop or elite squad and sprikle it with Elites, FA and Heavies as singles, but I am pretty sure I won't be able to take a squad of Crisis suits and a Broadside...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 22:37:11


Post by: vadersson


I am happy to see Kill Team updated. I have Kill Team for 7th and it was kind of ho-hum. I never did SW:A. If this can give me a new quicker way to use my existing models that would be awesome.

Thanks,
Duncan


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 22:59:28


Post by: Yodhrin


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I’m reserving judgement on this until I see more details. It sounds like it could be right up my street, but it depends on just how small scale it is.

If it’s basically just infantry then I’d rather be playing Necromunda. I want small scale but still be able to use things like Dreadnoughts and small vehicles.


I'd like that to some extent, but you have to be careful or it just becomes a low point value game of 40K, and we can do that already.

I think the key for me will be how you construct Kill Teams. If it's just "use the contents of one squad box and give a couple of the models some special rules" it'll be a wasted opportunity IMO - I'd like to see basically an official Inquisimunda, letting you build a KT from a variety of different models from a given army. So, if I can make a KT with say a couple of Skitarii, maybe a Stalker, a Magos, and a Kastellan, brilliant, but if it's just a case of taking a bog-standard Vanguard squad and giving a couple of them fancy names - meh. Basically, give me HH Strike Force-style force selection(though ideally with integral lists rather than needing codices) with Necromunda-style campaign mechanics and I'll be happy, otherwise I'll stick with the existing fan-made options.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 23:05:57


Post by: kodos


 Yodhrin wrote:

I'd like that to some extent, but you have to be careful or it just becomes a low point value game of 40K, and we can do that already.


We can, but no one is doing it because everyone wants to go big
Otherwise we would have already a tweaked point reduced version for events/tournaments

 Yodhrin wrote:

I think the key for me will be how you construct Kill Teams. If it's just "use the contents of one squad box and give a couple of the models some special rules" it'll be a wasted opportunity IMO - I'd like to see basically an official Inquisimunda, letting you build a KT from a variety of different models from a given army. So, if I can make a KT with say a couple of Skitarii, maybe a Stalker, a Magos, and a Kastellan, brilliant, but if it's just a case of taking a bog-standard Vanguard squad and giving a couple of them fancy names - meh.


Looking at the Video were a Thunderwolve next to Marines could be seen, I don't expect it to be just "out of one squad box" and something like a Dreadnought or Crisis Suit is possible

I believe and hope KT will be more like Mantic's Deadzone and less like Necromunda or even 40k
Than the team building won't be an issue


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/17 23:08:20


Post by: BrianDavion


 H wrote:
One can play a Necron Killteam, right?


I think the one faction I'm most cutious about is a custodes kill team, previously kill team tends to limit your armor to 3+ max, but custodes don't have a unit like that


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/18 00:04:41


Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame


People like all different styles of skirmish games, so I think it's a good thing that GW is coming out with a bunch of them, especially if they use already existing models.

The old Kill Team was right up my alley. Shadow War: Armageddon was interesting, but it felt a little too limiting to me and was more campaign focused. Shadespire doesn't look like my cup of tea at all (not saying it's a bad game, just not what I'm looking for). I haven't checked out the new Necromunda yet.

I really liked the basic idea behind the Kill Team: Operation Konor rules. They left a bunch of questions open about how some things would work and there were probably plenty of things that were exploitable, but I liked the concept. Something similar but more fleshed out would make me really happy. https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/kill-team-operation-konor/


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/18 06:12:40


Post by: axisofentropy


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I want small scale but still be able to use things like Dreadnoughts and small vehicles.
my man check out Combat Patrol

Format http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2018/201840Kcp.pdf

Optional missions http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2018/201840KCPPacket.pdf


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/18 07:01:20


Post by: schoon


This video has an excellent summary of all the rules that can be gleaned from GW's promo video. Quite a bit actually.

I like the concept of a number of Specialists in your KT, and the way they "level up" over time.

...and this should be a modeling bonanza for making character models.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/18 07:06:18


Post by: Bobthehero


I'll be quite happy if I can field my Tempestor Primes modelled with hotshot lasgun and grenade launcher with the gear they have.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/18 16:01:59


Post by: angel of death 007


fresus wrote:
 Insane Ivan wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).


By some time you mean a week.

Sure, I didn't really remember the exact period, but it was very soon indeed - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

It was pretty quick yes. But mostly because the box set sold out, so many people had no way of getting into the game. They didn't plan on releasing the rulebook separately at first.
And with Necromunda they still haven't. So I'm worried we'll see the same trend.
Everyone who plays 40K has enough models/terrain to play KT. Convincing someone to buy a small rulebook to get into a new game with the models they already own is much easier than convincing them to buy a huge box full of models they don't intend to use. I suspect GW will go for the no-book option, to try and sell as many boxes as possible, but that's not necessarily healthy for the game.


I could see them doing a boxed set release first then doing a book release. GW does more books then it does models so it wouldn't surprise me if they did a book for every army either, though doubtful. A larger book with all current options would be best suited.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 07:13:13


Post by: schoon


I would guess we'll see:

- Boxed set with rules, two sample forces, and terrain
- Separate rule book
- Separate temples, dice, cards, or whatever the game ends up using

...and since it seems they'll be supporting competitive play, there must be expansions. I'd guess they'll keep these small, like the Necromunda gangs or Shadespire warbands.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 07:26:02


Post by: Racerguy180


 schoon wrote:
I would guess we'll see:

- Boxed set with rules, two sample forces, and terrain
- Separate rule book
- Separate temples, dice, cards, or whatever the game ends up using

...and since it seems they'll be supporting competitive play, there must be expansions. I'd guess they'll keep these small, like the Necromunda gangs or Shadespire warbands.


I think with the success of shadespire and interest in Necro, GW might try a little harder this time.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 11:19:54


Post by: Process


 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
People like all different styles of skirmish games, so I think it's a good thing that GW is coming out with a bunch of them, especially if they use already existing models.

The old Kill Team was right up my alley. Shadow War: Armageddon was interesting, but it felt a little too limiting to me and was more campaign focused. Shadespire doesn't look like my cup of tea at all (not saying it's a bad game, just not what I'm looking for). I haven't checked out the new Necromunda yet.

I really liked the basic idea behind the Kill Team: Operation Konor rules. They left a bunch of questions open about how some things would work and there were probably plenty of things that were exploitable, but I liked the concept. Something similar but more fleshed out would make me really happy. https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/kill-team-operation-konor/


I really like this concept, basically small scale 40K with a huge add-on in terms of character progression, specialism "traits" and progression trees, game specific stratagems etc.

I didn't really click with SWA, i wanted to play with normal marines for a start, and i didnt like the clunky "knocked down" part.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 11:35:46


Post by: Strg Alt


 warboss wrote:
That might get me to check it out. I have no interest anymore in chasing codex books that are only good for 2-3 years on average.


That´s 40K in a nutshell. The aim of the hobby is not to collect, paint and use stuff for wargames but to chase codex books. That´s why I quit after 5th.

Killteam would be interesting for me, if all the factions would get a brand new box of minis exclusively designed for this game. Individual named models would come with stat cards and even have a small portion of fluff in the rulebook like in Space Hulk or Deathwatch.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 11:37:53


Post by: Process


 Strg Alt wrote:
 warboss wrote:
That might get me to check it out. I have no interest anymore in chasing codex books that are only good for 2-3 years on average.


That´s 40K in a nutshell. The aim of the hobby is not to collect, paint and use stuff for wargames but to chase codex books. That´s why I quit after 5th.

Killteam would be interesting for me, if all the factions would get a brand new box of minis exclusively designed for this game. Individual named models would come with stat cards and even have a small portion of fluff in the rulebook like in Space Hulk or Deathwatch.


So for you a "shadespire 40k" game would be more interesting? with set characters and abilities out of the box?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 11:47:45


Post by: Crimson


 Strg Alt wrote:

Killteam would be interesting for me, if all the factions would get a brand new box of minis exclusively designed for this game. Individual named models would come with stat cards and even have a small portion of fluff in the rulebook like in Space Hulk or Deathwatch.

Hell no! The whole point is that you can make your own characters from existing kits!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Process wrote:

So for you a "shadespire 40k" game would be more interesting? with set characters and abilities out of the box?


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!






[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 12:20:57


Post by: Process


 Crimson wrote:


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!



Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars- http://picbear.club/media/1720672020235312929_6000229864

Also, in terms of tournament play i dont like the idea of it just being the same preset characters against each other for example in marine vs marine games- id much rather go with the same way the LOTR events work; you bring one good army and one evil army, keep it narrative. So you could bring one imperium force and one chaos/xenos force and play an even amount of games with each through the day.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 12:29:02


Post by: Strg Alt


Process wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
 warboss wrote:
That might get me to check it out. I have no interest anymore in chasing codex books that are only good for 2-3 years on average.


That´s 40K in a nutshell. The aim of the hobby is not to collect, paint and use stuff for wargames but to chase codex books. That´s why I quit after 5th.

Killteam would be interesting for me, if all the factions would get a brand new box of minis exclusively designed for this game. Individual named models would come with stat cards and even have a small portion of fluff in the rulebook like in Space Hulk or Deathwatch.


So for you a "shadespire 40k" game would be more interesting? with set characters and abilities out of the box?


I never have played Shadespire but I enjoy Freebooter´s Fate a lot. The latter is a pirate skirmish game with fantasy elements. Every character in this game is represented by a stat card and corresponding fluff in the rulebook. So they never accumulate XP like in Blood Bowl or Necromunda but you can equip them with wargear cards. The game uses alternate activations and is a blast to play.

And now to your question. If this new Killteam thing would be anything like Freebooter´s Fate, I wouldn´t hesitate to buy a couple of minis for my favourite factions. But we know that this not going to happen. Killteam is just a gateway game to 40K with old minis like Shadowwar Armageddon. However if you want to get my attention you need new minis. Just take a look at Necromunda. They produced a lot of great figures.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 12:30:02


Post by: Kanluwen


 Crimson wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:

Killteam would be interesting for me, if all the factions would get a brand new box of minis exclusively designed for this game. Individual named models would come with stat cards and even have a small portion of fluff in the rulebook like in Space Hulk or Deathwatch.

Hell no! The whole point is that you can make your own characters from existing kits!

There's an argument to be made for that setup though. It's been a way to add characters to a few armies(Right now, the only named Fyreslayer comes from Shadespire) or to add a "unit" with a low points value.

I would totally be down for a "Sack the Necron Tomb World" game where it's a band of Alaitoc trying to reclaim the lost relics of a Phoenix Lord from their Craftworld, Stygies VIII AdMech trying to get their hands on Necron tech, Necrons trying to keep everyone off their damn lawn, and Deathwatch trying to destroy the Necrons as they slumber.



Process wrote:

So for you a "shadespire 40k" game would be more interesting? with set characters and abilities out of the box?


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!

Truthfully, that's a big part of why Shadespire works. Everything's been balanced, packaged, and delivered that way.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 12:31:24


Post by: StraightSilver


Without derailing the thread into a discussion about Shadespire I would say that although Shadespire does have pre-set characters it doesn't have pre-set decks, so 2 opponents facing off with the exact same models will have 2 very different lists.

There are now enough cards to run all the factions in a lot of different ways, the cards are what make the game customisable.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 12:31:28


Post by: Kanluwen


Process wrote:

Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars- http://picbear.club/media/1720672020235312929_6000229864

Also, in terms of tournament play i dont like the idea of it just being the same preset characters against each other for example in marine vs marine games- id much rather go with the same way the LOTR events work; you bring one good army and one evil army, keep it narrative. So you could bring one imperium force and one chaos/xenos force and play an even amount of games with each through the day.

I don't think I've really done a 'mirror match' for Shadespire. Most people have a few warbands at this point given the price point and the cards being put across the sets.


With that said, I think the Kill Team push is going to also be to coincide with the RPG. It even kinda/sorta seemed to hint at that.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 14:05:19


Post by: Process


StraightSilver wrote:
Without derailing the thread into a discussion about Shadespire I would say that although Shadespire does have pre-set characters it doesn't have pre-set decks, so 2 opponents facing off with the exact same models will have 2 very different lists.

There are now enough cards to run all the factions in a lot of different ways, the cards are what make the game customisable.


Firstly, ive not played shadespire so pardon my ignorance with regards to the gameplay etc.

That would again be quite a big turn off for me personally though, the models and the "aesthetic" of a game matter to me, so to me that might as well be just a card game.

I want to be able to choose the models i want to use, give them the weapons i want and the specialism i want. So they're MY guys haha.

I know its just wish listing but i can dream right?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 15:39:36


Post by: Yodhrin


StraightSilver wrote:
Without derailing the thread into a discussion about Shadespire I would say that although Shadespire does have pre-set characters it doesn't have pre-set decks, so 2 opponents facing off with the exact same models will have 2 very different lists.

There are now enough cards to run all the factions in a lot of different ways, the cards are what make the game customisable.


That's true, but a customisable game is not the same as a customisable team, nor is any minimal level of customisation enough to satisfy everyone. Shadespire works for people who like that kind of game because it's "pure", it doesn't try to be anything it's not, or cram in any mechanics that don't fit, or appeal to people who're not into competitive deckbuilders. If Shadespire also tried to appeal to narrative campaign gamers who want customisable warbands that grow and change, they would either be so neutered in order to fit into the quickfire tournament setup that they'd be a pointless addition that most competitive players wouldn't use and most narrative campaign gamers wouldn't find appealing, or they'd intrude on the "carefully balanced" deckbuilding aspect in a way that would piss off competitive gamers.

From the narrative campaign side of things - I have zero interest in a campaign game that doesn't let me create my own teams with my own characters, because frankly I don't give the tiniest gak about the adventures of Sir Copyright Intellectual Propertericus and his band of mighty Trademarknaughts. I don't care for Special Characters in 40K for the same reason - their stories can never really be my stories. I don't really see how you can square the circle in a way that pleases both styles of player.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 16:06:07


Post by: Irbis


Process wrote:
 Crimson wrote:


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!

Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars

I don't see the problem. Like, at all. The very first WC Shadespire article was about Duncan customizing his team by converting all three. Do tell me, what exactly is the difference between 3 set minis you can convert into what you want, and points-building 3 minis where you can only afford 3 models? Literally none. Yes, in Shadespire choices are "limited" in a sense Space Marine might start with bolter due to balance, but nothing stops you from deploying plasma gun card on the mini during game to upgrade him. You build your team partially through your deck, in a lot of ways it's much more flexible and 'your own' system than KT way of building set team (which will mostly consist of bolter mooks anyway) and being stuck with it through the game.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 16:15:35


Post by: Yodhrin


 Irbis wrote:
Process wrote:
 Crimson wrote:


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!

Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars

I don't see the problem. Like, at all. The very first WC Shadespire article was about Duncan customizing his team by converting all three. Do tell me, what exactly is the difference between 3 set minis you can convert into what you want, and points-building 3 minis where you can only afford 3 models? Literally none. Yes, in Shadespire choices are "limited" in a sense Space Marine might start with bolter due to balance, but nothing stops you from deploying plasma gun card on the mini during game to upgrade him. You build your team partially through your deck, in a lot of ways it's much more flexible and 'your own' system than KT way of building set team (which will mostly consist of bolter mooks anyway) and being stuck with it through the game.


If you honestly can't see the difference between a system like Necromunda or Inquisimunda or Mordheim where you build a an entirely custom group of models from a selection, give them entirely custom equipment, and have them evolve over the course of a campaign gaining stat increase & skills and also should you choose selecting new equipment from an even broader selection using specific postgame mechanics, and a game where you can make the same three characters everyone playing that warband gets look a bit different and give them a different weapon as part of the deckbuilding, then I don't know what to tell you.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 16:38:24


Post by: MrMoustaffa


Well its kind of a moot point, it's pretty obvious kill team will be nothing like shadespire. I think that's a good thing but others disagree.

I just want GW to stick with a system and support it. Shadow war and kill team 7th were fun but flawed systems that could've easily been fixed with a bit of work. Yet GW would pop out a single box, maybe release a couple free pdfs, then call it a day. Then 8th dropped and really killed both games overnight. GW probably realized how popular those games were, both sold really fast right off the bat. In my area alone we had our player count triple overnight when kill team dropped. Those players were then left in the cold when the games were dropped a few months later and they couldn't afford full armies yet


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 16:53:44


Post by: ElvisJuice


Yeah, I feel a bit burned by SW:A launching when it did and being superceded by this in fairly short order. Did at least get lots of lovely scenery out of that. But from that experience I'm definitely not rushing out to buy new Kill Team on day one. Hell, the Kill Team incarnation before SW:A lasted an even shorter time if memory serves


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 17:17:13


Post by: Azazelx


Kill Team 7th suffered greatly by the need to own the appropriate codex and not having the stats for the different factions built in. Unless you were going to go out and pirate the pdf or something, the buy-in also required that hefty, expensive hardcover codex.

For each group of 10 guys you wanted to run.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 19:04:41


Post by: ProtoClone


Must be losing it, thought I posted my question on here...so, anyway.

Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 19:12:48


Post by: kodos


Do answer that question we need to wait for the rules


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 20:52:01


Post by: Irbis


 Yodhrin wrote:
If you honestly can't see the difference between a system like Necromunda or Inquisimunda or Mordheim where you build a an entirely custom group of models from a selection, give them entirely custom equipment, and have them evolve over the course of a campaign gaining stat increase & skills and also should you choose selecting new equipment from an even broader selection using specific postgame mechanics, and a game where you can make the same three characters everyone playing that warband gets look a bit different and give them a different weapon as part of the deckbuilding, then I don't know what to tell you.

Nice fantasy you have got here. Sadly, I am familiar with contents of the sprues of the factions that will go into Kill Team and vast majority of them has nowhere near the level of customization Necromunda has. Maybe you should wake up and realize chances GW will give you options to customize that are not present on sprues are slim to none?

In fact, Shadespire approach would be much more likely to allow you to have fancy gear on your guys, either because that would be their default loadout or because adding upgrade card to deck is way easier than magically conjuring up new plastic from thin air. Stat increase/custom traits you can do in both systems so you don't have ground there either, in fact Shadespire allows you to 'level up' or change loadout during the game, unlike KT, so it's more flexible there too.

Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Most likely, seeing GW has no other way to fulfill their boast of 'dozens' of factions other than artificially inflate their number by pumping up subfactions...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 21:35:19


Post by: Insane Ivan


 Irbis wrote:

Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Most likely, seeing GW has no other way to fulfill their boast of 'dozens' of factions other than artificially inflate their number by pumping up subfactions...

Actually, as pointed out before, the GW site currently lists 29 factions for 40k. Leaving out both Imperial and Renegade Knights as unlikely to be included, Ynnari and Offico Assasinorum as “too small” (though I could well see them as Kill team factions nonetheless), and counting Space Marines and Ultramarines as the “same” faction for argument’s sake, that still leaves 24 factions, which fits the “dozens” exactly.

That said, I’d expect we’ll have a lot more options for models to include than SWA did, and can’t see a reason why Kroot or Vespid wouldn’t be included. We’ll need to wait for the rules to see exactly what we can and cannot take, though.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/19 21:42:08


Post by: Ghaz


 Irbis wrote:
Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Most likely, seeing GW has no other way to fulfill their boast of 'dozens' of factions other than artificially inflate their number by pumping up subfactions...

Not counting Imperial Knights and Renegade Knights, there's already 27 'factions' without adding any additional subfactions.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 06:38:28


Post by: kadeton


 Irbis wrote:
Stat increase/custom traits you can do in both systems so you don't have ground there either, in fact Shadespire allows you to 'level up' or change loadout during the game, unlike KT, so it's more flexible there too.


There's still a big difference there: "Levelling up" or changing loadout during the game and then resetting everything back to baseline after the game, versus having the changes you make to your team persist between games. That's a vitally important difference, and produces radically different games - the first is much easier to balance fairly and can build a great competitive scene, but the second builds the player's emotional investment and sense of ownership in their team (but is almost always unbalanced to heck). Different players are looking for different things, and no matter what form Kill Team takes, some of them are going to be disappointed.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 09:34:20


Post by: Vorian


For someone not following every bit of news, is this looking a bit like a 40k battle company type thing?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 10:49:42


Post by: fresus


Vorian wrote:
For someone not following every bit of news, is this looking a bit like a 40k battle company type thing?

It's a skirmish game. Around 5-15 models per side depending on how elite they are.
In many cases, a single infantry box will be enough to play. Hopefully most armies will have options to include bigger models (like a single crisis suit for Tau, or a couple Reavers for the wychs), but we don't know yet.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 12:05:41


Post by: Mysterio


If we can do a nice mix up representing a unique Inquisitorial band, it would be great.

As would including the occasional Space Marine in with the 'normal' humans.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 12:59:59


Post by: godswildcard


 Mysterio wrote:
If we can do a nice mix up representing a unique Inquisitorial band, it would be great.

As would including the occasional Space Marine in with the 'normal' humans.



I'm with you there. I'd love to do an inquisitorial Warband around Eisenhorn. Model the different characters and use the rules that best correspond to the character, etc....

THAT would get me into the painting and conversion aspect of it for sure.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 16:04:53


Post by: schoon


For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 17:07:56


Post by: Mr Morden


 schoon wrote:
For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions


Thanks always prefer a written version


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 19:20:49


Post by: Strg Alt


 schoon wrote:
For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions


Intelligence tests? Yeah, I want to see the likes of Termagants hacking computer terminals and whatnot. I am also curious, if Tyranid bugs are compatible with imperial software.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 19:39:38


Post by: TalonZahn


A leader would imply using some sort of Brain Bug.

Aren't they all connected through a synapse system?

Perhaps that's something unique to the Nids', the troops models can use their Brain Bugs intelligence stat when attempting things that require that test.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 19:55:53


Post by: eflix29


Kill Team ? More like Kill Team 2018
Google " kill team rulebook" and you will find the free rulebook they released in 2013 iirc, before they priced it in 2016, and it will be 95% the same as the new one.
The usable units in the current edition are :





[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 20:04:32


Post by: Galas


 Strg Alt wrote:
 schoon wrote:
For those that missed the post, this is a great video the summarizes all the rules that could be gleaned from the sample pages that GW revealed in their video.

Short version:
- Kill Teams will have 1 Leader specialist
- Also up to 3 other specialists
- The rest will be rank-and-file
- Specialists will be able to advance on Ability trees
- Ability trees have 3 levels of branches
- The "4th" level will be to pick any other ability in the tree
- There will be Intelligence and Morale that is tracked between missions


Intelligence tests? Yeah, I want to see the likes of Termagants hacking computer terminals and whatnot. I am also curious, if Tyranid bugs are compatible with imperial software.


Actually in old Lore the Tyranids where able to "possess" a Imperial Titan using their bio-morphfs to adapt and hack even the machine spirit.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 20:20:29


Post by: Mr_Rose


Eh, that’s more because a Titan’s machine spirit is actually built on organic tissue than some mystical ability to haxx0r j00r t¡t4n…


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 20:48:50


Post by: Yodhrin


 Mr_Rose wrote:
Eh, that’s more because a Titan’s machine spirit is actually built on organic tissue than some mystical ability to haxx0r j00r t¡t4n…


Actually it's more to do with some authors fully buying into the "it's fantasy so nothing matters do what you like brah" mindset and either not knowing or not caring how Titans work - I've never seen any suggestion that a Titan's machine spirit is based on a biological substrate, it exists apart from the biological crew - see also Tau tech somehow hacking and neutralising effects produced by Tyranid biology.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 22:15:21


Post by: Irbis


 Ghaz wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Would I be able to field Kroots and/or Vespid as a single Killteam?

Most likely, seeing GW has no other way to fulfill their boast of 'dozens' of factions other than artificially inflate their number by pumping up subfactions...

Not counting Imperial Knights and Renegade Knights, there's already 27 'factions' without adding any additional subfactions.

Boasting about 'dozens' when you don't even have three of these dozens is IMO both silly and kinda false advertising.

Not to mention I have no idea where you saw 27, I counted 24 and even then only if we're super generous and count single-box "factions" and two ancient, metal only armies that will have zero options and customization as equal to modern plastics in context of KT. There is currently 20 'full' armies in the game, not even two dozen...

 kadeton wrote:
There's still a big difference there: "Levelling up" or changing loadout during the game and then resetting everything back to baseline after the game, versus having the changes you make to your team persist between games. That's a vitally important difference, and produces radically different games - the first is much easier to balance fairly and can build a great competitive scene, but the second builds the player's emotional investment and sense of ownership in their team (but is almost always unbalanced to heck). Different players are looking for different things, and no matter what form Kill Team takes, some of them are going to be disappointed.

No, there is really not. Nothing stops you from having campaign in Shadespire with warbands being allowed to keep a portion of upgrades from last game or both teams starting with nonzero resources already in play if you so wish. In Kill Team, though, these 'changes' are largely illusory. To show you why, let's look at say Skaven team. Five very different minis, each with different weapon and rules, nothing stops you from making them into your dudes as each of them is truly unique. Now take a look as Skaven troop box and tell me with a straight face it has even a tenth of the options and individuality of Shadespire team.

Ditto with 40K, I have played enough Kill Team back in the day to know how laughable claims of customizability or uniqueness are. It's bolter/lasgun mooks, all day till Sunday, with maybe the leader and two elite mooks getting any non-standard equipment, and that if your troop box actually has any or you can afford it. And even then, these three are usually focused down first as they are greatest threat and unless new KT is really generous with replacements or healing that is your first and last time you field these non-carbon-copy dudes.

Then there is practicality. Let's suppose there is some sort of outlandish customization and GW actually conjured some extra sprues from thin air somehow. Are you really going to modify your minis every game? Repaint? What if you want to play a game with new guy and take a new team to equalize playground, do you rip off all these extra upgrades and/of buy new troop box? If not, what is the advantage over Shadespire, again?

With Shadespire-like approach, you can buy cheap team, paint, done, you can play wherever you want with whomever you want, no hassle or WYSIWYG issues, done.

I have a feeling you guys are going to be 'slightly' disappointed when you see new KT in action and it will look nothing like the pretty image you painted in your dreams.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 22:44:12


Post by: Zethnar


 eflix29 wrote:
Kill Team ? More like Kill Team 2018
Google " kill team rulebook" and you will find the free rulebook they released in 2013 iirc, before they priced it in 2016, and it will be 95% the same as the new one.
The usable units in the current edition are :
Spoiler:


The Warhammer Community article where Kill Team was announced wrote:
From one-off matched play battles to in-depth narrative campaigns where your fighters grow and evolve, this edition of Kill Team is a fully fledged game in its own right – it doesn’t use the existing Warhammer 40,000 rules set (but it’s just as thrilling!).

Come on people, it's not hard to be informed.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 22:45:57


Post by: kodos


 Irbis wrote:

Boasting about 'dozens' when you don't even have three of these dozens is IMO both silly and kinda false advertising.


This is still GW you are talking about


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 23:15:28


Post by: Neronoxx


 Zethnar wrote:
 eflix29 wrote:
Kill Team ? More like Kill Team 2018
Google " kill team rulebook" and you will find the free rulebook they released in 2013 iirc, before they priced it in 2016, and it will be 95% the same as the new one.
The usable units in the current edition are :
Spoiler:


The Warhammer Community article where Kill Team was announced wrote:
From one-off matched play battles to in-depth narrative campaigns where your fighters grow and evolve, this edition of Kill Team is a fully fledged game in its own right – it doesn’t use the existing Warhammer 40,000 rules set (but it’s just as thrilling!).

Come on people, it's not hard to be informed.

But what could it be really?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/20 23:24:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Irbis wrote:
Then there is practicality. Let's suppose there is some sort of outlandish customization and GW actually conjured some extra sprues from thin air somehow. Are you really going to modify your minis every game? Repaint? What if you want to play a game with new guy and take a new team to equalize playground, do you rip off all these extra upgrades and/of buy new troop box? If not, what is the advantage over Shadespire, again?
There's this game GW makes. Called Necromunda. Heard of it? Yeah.

Well that's a pretty customisable game. Why couldn't Kill-Team be a slightly less detailed but slightly larger scope version of that? Larger forces, comparatively, with few options, but still enough that you can customise. Doesn't have to be after every game, but changing weapons and people advancing isn't as an outlandish thing as you make it.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 02:18:53


Post by: Zethnar


Neronoxx wrote:
 Zethnar wrote:
 eflix29 wrote:
Kill Team ? More like Kill Team 2018
Google " kill team rulebook" and you will find the free rulebook they released in 2013 iirc, before they priced it in 2016, and it will be 95% the same as the new one.
The usable units in the current edition are :
Spoiler:


The Warhammer Community article where Kill Team was announced wrote:
From one-off matched play battles to in-depth narrative campaigns where your fighters grow and evolve, this edition of Kill Team is a fully fledged game in its own right – it doesn’t use the existing Warhammer 40,000 rules set (but it’s just as thrilling!).

Come on people, it's not hard to be informed.

But what could it be really?

Until they show more of it I don't know, some kind of skirmish focused ruleset no doubt. But insisting that it's the one thing they specifically said it wasn't isn't helpful.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 02:39:01


Post by: Neronoxx


I'm not insisting anything, more questioning GW's ability to write something 40k that isn't 40k.
Like, are we switching to d20's, staying with D6s, keeping strength and toughness, etc, etc?
How Original do we honestly expect GW to be? Something like warmachine or maybe infinity? Or just closer to DnD 5e?
WHAT IS IT REALLY??!!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 03:55:17


Post by: Azreal13


I'd say what we're getting is a modified Necromunda rule set, and as that was based on the older Necromunda rule set which in turn was based on the 40K 2nd Ed rule set, the circle is now complete.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 05:39:09


Post by: kadeton


 Irbis wrote:
No, there is really not. Nothing stops you from having campaign in Shadespire with warbands being allowed to keep a portion of upgrades from last game or both teams starting with nonzero resources already in play if you so wish. In Kill Team, though, these 'changes' are largely illusory. To show you why, let's look at say Skaven team. Five very different minis, each with different weapon and rules, nothing stops you from making them into your dudes as each of them is truly unique. Now take a look as Skaven troop box and tell me with a straight face it has even a tenth of the options and individuality of Shadespire team.

Nothing stops you from having a campaign in Shadespire except for the lack of rule support to do so. It's not how the game is designed to play.

You need to decide whether you're trying to discuss the customisation of physical models, or the customisation of in-game characters. The first is mostly irrelevant, in my opinion - people who feel they need more model variety will proxy or kitbash, same as always.

The second is the real point of contention. You say your Skaven in Shadespire are each "truly unique", but at the start of every game you play, your Spiteclaw is exactly the same as every other Skaven player's Spiteclaw. You can modify him over the course of the game, but in the end he goes back to being the same generic Spiteclaw that everybody else has, every time. Spiteclaw is GW's character, not yours - you can use him for a while, but he will always go back to being what GW made him. You had a great build in one game where he was super awesome, and you really look forward to using it again? Sorry, that's not how the game works.

Irbis wrote:Then there is practicality. Let's suppose there is some sort of outlandish customization and GW actually conjured some extra sprues from thin air somehow. Are you really going to modify your minis every game? Repaint? What if you want to play a game with new guy and take a new team to equalize playground, do you rip off all these extra upgrades and/of buy new troop box? If not, what is the advantage over Shadespire, again?

With Shadespire-like approach, you can buy cheap team, paint, done, you can play wherever you want with whomever you want, no hassle or WYSIWYG issues, done.

Special skills and abilities don't require extra sprues or model customisation. That's why the continuity between games matters - you're building an attachment to who the person is, not what they look like or what equipment they have.

The important thing is that it takes time to build that connection. A model doing a cool thing in a single game is just a throwaway anecdote.

Irbis wrote:I have a feeling you guys are going to be 'slightly' disappointed when you see new KT in action and it will look nothing like the pretty image you painted in your dreams.

Have I painted a pretty image? I'm fairly sure the only opinion I've expressed about the game is that no matter how it works, a lot of people are going to be disappointed.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 09:11:53


Post by: JohnnyHell


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Then there is practicality. Let's suppose there is some sort of outlandish customization and GW actually conjured some extra sprues from thin air somehow. Are you really going to modify your minis every game? Repaint? What if you want to play a game with new guy and take a new team to equalize playground, do you rip off all these extra upgrades and/of buy new troop box? If not, what is the advantage over Shadespire, again?
There's this game GW makes. Called Necromunda. Heard of it? Yeah.

Well that's a pretty customisable game. Why couldn't Kill-Team be a slightly less detailed but slightly larger scope version of that? Larger forces, comparatively, with few options, but still enough that you can customise. Doesn't have to be after every game, but changing weapons and people advancing isn't as an outlandish thing as you make it.


Absolutely used to re-convert and repaint models after games with old Necromunda. That was 30 years ago. It's not the chore some make out, especially not in this age of magnets.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 09:14:15


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Some of us either don't like painting, are no good at painting, or for the few blessed among us, both. It's nice that you liked doing that, but it's not for everyone.

I was the type of player who armed people with what they had on the miniature, even if it was a converted miniature, and never varied for that. So would it have been more "powerful" to arm all my Delaque's with Lasguns? Sure! But I only had a finite amount of Lasgun gangers, so I took Autogun and Shotgun gangers as well.

For Kill Team I can see them allowing a bit more variety than "You chose Space Marines, so 7 of your guys will have Bolters and nothing else. Ever!".





[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 09:15:27


Post by: Mr Morden


Neronoxx wrote:
 Zethnar wrote:
 eflix29 wrote:
Kill Team ? More like Kill Team 2018
Google " kill team rulebook" and you will find the free rulebook they released in 2013 iirc, before they priced it in 2016, and it will be 95% the same as the new one.
The usable units in the current edition are :
Spoiler:


The Warhammer Community article where Kill Team was announced wrote:
From one-off matched play battles to in-depth narrative campaigns where your fighters grow and evolve, this edition of Kill Team is a fully fledged game in its own right – it doesn’t use the existing Warhammer 40,000 rules set (but it’s just as thrilling!).

Come on people, it's not hard to be informed.

But what could it be really?

I have used my Sisters in Kill Team and I think you can use other Agents of the Imperium?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 09:17:55


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Well hopefully this time they won't forget Inquisitors and Sisters. *cough* Shadow War *cough*


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 09:41:55


Post by: Mr Morden


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well hopefully this time they won't forget Inquisitors and Sisters. *cough* Shadow War *cough*


Yeah we got them in the Softback - one of the reasons I bought it


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 10:02:36


Post by: Azazelx


 JohnnyHell wrote:

Absolutely used to re-convert and repaint models after games with old Necromunda. That was 30 years ago. It's not the chore some make out, especially not in this age of magnets.


I'd sometimes set up a new, similar model with appropriate or similar weaponry. I'm not one who is willing to chop up and rebuild my "completed" models except for extreme cases that then become permanent situations (Necro gangers are almost never in a "permanent" state). I'd probably do the same these days in preference to specifically building every model with magnetised arms in advance of a campaign.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 10:55:56


Post by: ritualnet


I'm happier having a figure I have painted, and modelled to be interesting to look at (so not WYSIWYG), and then having cards, or stats that change. Maybe I'm just old, but when we used to play D&D, we didn't spend ages remodelling our figure just because I swapped out a dagger for a short sword?

To me, I would make a kill team of unique looking figures (battle worn marines, scrap necrons, etc), identify them with a number or name on base rim, and then say "Dave there, he has a plasma gun" even though he's got a bolt pistol in each hand, and one in his mouth. As it's a smaller squad based game, it shouldn't be too much of an issue?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 11:24:21


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Is it time for the WYSIWYG argument again? I don't like doing that, so I do as Azazelx does. Most of my friends do the same thing. If I had to play against someone who isn't as restrained, I'd prefer that a model had a completely unrecognisable weapon rather than "this plasma gun is actually a meltagun". Infinity's approach - of putting a model or two with only a pistol or melee weapon into box sets, so that model can represent any option - is less objectionable.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/21 12:44:44


Post by: ritualnet


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Is it time for the WYSIWYG argument again?


Sorry!


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/22 08:25:26


Post by: schoon


Kill Team was mentioned at the AdeptiCon seminar, but only that it would be a system independent of 40K (which we already knew).

...and @H.B.M.C, looks like we'll have new models for SoB Kill Teams in 2019.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/22 11:45:35


Post by: zamerion


Kill Team stand alone
Hank from adepticon will get early look


So, will we have information about the rules next days?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/22 21:01:03


Post by: TalonZahn


I'm mostly wondering about what the points size of the teams will be..... staying with @200 or creeping higher?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/22 21:16:29


Post by: BrookM


With the previous edition 200 pts was a good sweet spot. It'll be interesting to see if this version uses its own points system for team building.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/22 23:16:13


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I hope it allows for some vehicles. I get that it's meant to be small-scale skirmish, but I don't see a Dread or a Chimera as being too far outside of the scope of the game. No Baneblades, Land Raiders or Knights - sure - but I don't want arbitrary restrictions on units (can't take anything with a 2+ save, can't take anything AP2 or better, etc. like the old rules).


 schoon wrote:
...and @H.B.M.C, looks like we'll have new models for SoB Kill Teams in 2019.
Both good and bad.

Good: Yay! New Sisters minis. That's awesome.
Bad: No model/no rule is still in effect, so any rules we get now won't incorporate any new stuff.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/22 23:50:07


Post by: Ghaz


A Chimera may be too big, but I would like to see War Walkers, Dreadnoughts, Sentinels, Ironstrider Ballistarius, Kataphrons, Kastelans, Talos and Cronos Engines and other models like these.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 01:37:29


Post by: Dandelion


From the video, it seems that this Kill Team will be more like an expanded Shadow War rather than a smaller 40k. (since it was started due to the popularity of Shadow war) As such I expect terminators/ogryns to be some of the "largest" models used. Dreadnoughts, Crisis suits, war walkers will most likely be too large for the scope of the game. (The largest model shown was the wolf rider) This is of course pure conjecture.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 01:54:59


Post by: kadeton


If I was to guess, I'd say having no models with 10 or more Wds would be a good bet. In 40k, it's already the cutoff between "normal" characters and "huge" characters, and the point at which models get a degrading statline, so it seems like a natural breakpoint for a skirmish game. It would allow the smaller dreadnoughts, war walkers etc, and potentially a few light vehicles like Starweavers (though I wouldn't be surprised by a restriction based on movement speed in addition).

That said, since it's a different system, who knows? Even talking about points totals doesn't really mean anything, since there's no guarantee the points costs will work the same as in 40k.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 06:03:47


Post by: Racerguy180


I hope Primarchs/demon princes are not allowed.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 06:13:51


Post by: BrookM


Seeing as this will be a stand alone product I'm sure each faction will have a dedicated list of do's and don'ts with regards to units you can field.

Has the Dreadnought in this edition tanked hard or something? In the previous edition a Sentinel or Ironstrider was about as stompy as you could get with walkers.

Fielding vehicles would be nice, but for me personally it wouldn't be a massive loss either if they were not allowed, putting a pure focus on small squads of infantry and critters doing their thing.

Super-heavies are obviously out, though it wouldn't surprise me if they somehow managed to recycle one or two of the old missions from the previous edition, where a Kill Team had to take down a regular tank or a partially shut down super-heavy.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 06:18:57


Post by: Altruizine


I find this exciting.

But as a Tyranid player I'm used to being disappointed with my options every time a skirmish game comes around. Warriors are cool, yeah, but please let me use other stuff.

Like my dream kill team is a well-rounded Warrior or Zoanthrope leader, a terrifying Lictor elite, a couple of Genestealers to do work, and 6 or so Gaunts to do... death.

Still feel like Mordheim had it more right than anything since... a few distinct hero types, a few distinct trooper types, and at least one heavy/elite badass. Give me that mix all day long.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 06:42:11


Post by: Yodhrin


 BrookM wrote:
Seeing as this will be a stand alone product I'm sure each faction will have a dedicated list of do's and don'ts with regards to units you can field.

Has the Dreadnought in this edition tanked hard or something? In the previous edition a Sentinel or Ironstrider was about as stompy as you could get with walkers.

Fielding vehicles would be nice, but for me personally it wouldn't be a massive loss either if they were not allowed, putting a pure focus on small squads of infantry and critters doing their thing.

Super-heavies are obviously out, though it wouldn't surprise me if they somehow managed to recycle one or two of the old missions from the previous edition, where a Kill Team had to take down a regular tank or a partially shut down super-heavy.


Aye, a Dread might be cool, but tbh I'm more interested in being able to make up a mixed team, for example some Fire Warriors, a couple of Pathfinders, and some Kroot, or some Skitarii, a couple of Techpriests, and a Sicarii or two, that sort of setup. I'd even kinda like "soup" to still be a thing, despite how many regard it - having an Inquisitor & a few henchman paired off with a Deathwatch or Grey Knight marine would be brilliant. Something more along the line of the HH Strike Force army selection than the traditional Kill Team thing of picking Codex units up to a smaller point value than normal with a few restrictions. EDIT: Aye Altruizine has it about right, something Mordheim-ish in format and on the upper end of that in terms of force size, like 20-ish models a side.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 06:56:40


Post by: Jack Flask


Apparently I have like zero presence or I do a bad job of projecting my voice because I haven't seen any of the recaps mention it, but I asked at the seminar yesterday whether "fully supported range" meant just terrain or also new units and upgrade kits fo KT?

Answer was "yes" so I thought that was pretty cool.

Either that or no one heard/understood my question and they just said yes to move on to more "when is X character going to be released" memes...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 07:44:23


Post by: kadeton


Racerguy180 wrote:
I hope Primarchs/demon princes are not allowed.

A Daemon Prince is roughly on par with a Dreadnought, so if we see one it wouldn't be totally unreasonable to see the other.

Even with a totally different points scheme, I think you'd struggle to fit a ~400 point-equivalent Primarch into a ~200 point-equivalent Kill Team.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 07:56:58


Post by: fresus


I think even small vehicles are a bad thing.
They're very hard to kill with standard infantry weapons. And in a KT format, you can't protect your special/heavy weapons, since each guy is its own unit. The player with a vehicle can usually just focus down on the 1 or 2 opposing models that can really put a hurt on the vehicle, and then enjoy a model with insane durability.
Unless of course the rules are different enough that everything I just said doesn't apply (like being able to hit/kill the vehicle's pilot, or just an overall decreased durability).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 08:00:41


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Always thought it'd be interesting to play a game like Only War where everyone in the group plays as the crew of a Baneblade. I don't think a Baneblade would work in a game like Killteam, but if that was your entire force, for a special scenario, that could be pretty cool.

Racerguy180 wrote:
I hope Primarchs/demon princes are not allowed.
Somehow I doubt they will be.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 09:27:05


Post by: CassianSol



A 40k Lovers in a Dangerous Space Time-esque video game would be a good way of doing that. Could be the crew of a baneblade, or any other vehicle.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 09:50:25


Post by: Yodhrin


fresus wrote:
I think even small vehicles are a bad thing.
They're very hard to kill with standard infantry weapons. And in a KT format, you can't protect your special/heavy weapons, since each guy is its own unit. The player with a vehicle can usually just focus down on the 1 or 2 opposing models that can really put a hurt on the vehicle, and then enjoy a model with insane durability.
Unless of course the rules are different enough that everything I just said doesn't apply (like being able to hit/kill the vehicle's pilot, or just an overall decreased durability).


I mean, assuming this new version will be related to the 8th rules, is that kind of thing even an issue any more? So long as they keep anything heftier than a Dreadnought out of things a bit of focus fire should be able to handle vehicles now everything can hurt everything else, it's not like Ye Olden Tymes when losing your dedicated AT weapons meant you were unable to harm vehicles at all.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 10:51:38


Post by: fresus


 Yodhrin wrote:
fresus wrote:
I think even small vehicles are a bad thing.
They're very hard to kill with standard infantry weapons. And in a KT format, you can't protect your special/heavy weapons, since each guy is its own unit. The player with a vehicle can usually just focus down on the 1 or 2 opposing models that can really put a hurt on the vehicle, and then enjoy a model with insane durability.
Unless of course the rules are different enough that everything I just said doesn't apply (like being able to hit/kill the vehicle's pilot, or just an overall decreased durability).


I mean, assuming this new version will be related to the 8th rules, is that kind of thing even an issue any more? So long as they keep anything heftier than a Dreadnought out of things a bit of focus fire should be able to handle vehicles now everything can hurt everything else, it's not like Ye Olden Tymes when losing your dedicated AT weapons meant you were unable to harm vehicles at all.

The lightest vehicles are still T5/W6/4+ (Eldar skimmers, sentinels), which require 36 S4 AP0 hits to take down. That's 27 marines in rapid fire range.
A Dread is twice as hard to put down with S4/AP0 weapons, and four times as hard with S3. So that's 144 BS4+ lasguns in RF range to take it down.
I also hope we'll see some small vehicles, but I still think the rules need to be drastically different for it to work.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 10:53:42


Post by: H.B.M.C.


That's what special weapons are for! And equipment like meltabombs or haywire grenades.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 11:13:30


Post by: kodos


fresus wrote:
. That's 27 marines in rapid fire range.


So one Eldar Skimmer is equal 20 Brimstones

I would say let's hope that Brimstones or similar stuff don't make it into the game

Or you just take a Specialist with Melter and one with Flamer.....


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 11:19:42


Post by: fresus


H.B.M.C. wrote:That's what special weapons are for! And equipment like meltabombs or haywire grenades.

But since each guy is its own unit, it's very easy to focus on the dude holding the special/heavy weapon.
That's why vehicles (even with 8th ed. rules) don't work very well with a simple KT ruleset like it was done in previous editions.

kodos wrote:
fresus wrote:
. That's 27 marines in rapid fire range.


So one Eldar Skimmer is equal 20 Brimstones

I would say let's hope that Brimstones or similar stuff don't make it into the game

Or you just take a Specialist with Melter and one with Flamer.....

Yes, hordes were king in 7th. ed. KT.

We don't have any clue how different the new rules will be, so this discussion is a bit pointless anyway. I think my overall point is that to make KT work, the rules need to be quite different than 40K rules, not just the simple "each guy is its own unit" thing we got previously.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 11:19:50


Post by: Irbis


 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, assuming this new version will be related to the 8th rules, is that kind of thing even an issue any more? So long as they keep anything heftier than a Dreadnought out of things a bit of focus fire should be able to handle vehicles now everything can hurt everything else, it's not like Ye Olden Tymes when losing your dedicated AT weapons meant you were unable to harm vehicles at all.

Well, seeing Dread can absorb more bolter shots than your typical KT can output during normal game, especially considering said Dread will be killing 1-2 models per turn, it would still be issue, yeah. Especially seeing you can just something like autocannon on it and snipe enemies from corner being effectively invulnerable...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's what special weapons are for! And equipment like meltabombs or haywire grenades.

Seeing dread can mount heavy flamer next to all other gear, good luck with closing to melee distance with it. And even that is not really necessary. If you ever played old KT, lack of ablative wounds and not being able to tie up more than one model's shooting with a charge nerfed melee in KT so heavily it was almost useless in the end, doubly so in the era of free fall back...


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 11:36:27


Post by: Mymearan


Yeah the big problem with KT has always been that numbers win every time since there was no way to compensate for the fact that each model could only kill another single model a turn, whether it was a Gretchin or a Space Marine.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 13:55:59


Post by: AndrewGPaul


The previous Kill Team had a mode where one side brought a single Monstrous Creature or similar (Carnifex, Dreadnought, Wraithlord, etc) and the other side had to take it down. I expect this will have similar options. Likewise the "one man army" option - pit a kill team against an Imperial Assassin or the like.

For the record, my Imperial Guard veteran squad took down the Carnifex (eventually, by throwing krak grenades at it from behind) and the Space Marine tactical squad got wiped out by the Vindicare assassin (in melee, as it happened!), although in that game we forgot to give the kill team its extra specialists.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 20:37:35


Post by: MrMoustaffa


Well if shadow war is being used as the basis for this, you could only target the nearest model unless you had specific rules. This meant that special weapon squad members could stay in the back and stay safe unless your opponent brought snipers or other styled units.

That'd be a good counter to 7th kill team where you killed the special weapons then heavy flamered the opponents team to death.

Also, there were ways to split fire in that system too. Some weapons like heavy bolters could hit 2-3 guys at a time and even basic weapons like a grenade launcher used large blast templates. Gave serious downsides to bunching up as well as discouraging hordes a bit.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 20:45:25


Post by: Bobthehero


I really hope that rule is not included, its so stupid.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 21:21:08


Post by: Captain Joystick


fresus wrote:

Yes, hordes were king in 7th. ed. KT.


Respectfully, the King of 7th ed. Kill Team was Gloria.

In all seriousness, a rhino in KT was obnoxiously busted. Teams that could take one down often only bothered investing that kind of points on one guy. One guy who never expected a multi-melta to have infiltrate.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/23 23:58:13


Post by: Azazelx


ritualnet wrote:
I'm happier having a figure I have painted, and modelled to be interesting to look at (so not WYSIWYG), and then having cards, or stats that change. Maybe I'm just old, but when we used to play D&D, we didn't spend ages remodelling our figure just because I swapped out a dagger for a short sword?

To me, I would make a kill team of unique looking figures (battle worn marines, scrap necrons, etc), identify them with a number or name on base rim, and then say "Dave there, he has a plasma gun" even though he's got a bolt pistol in each hand, and one in his mouth. As it's a smaller squad based game, it shouldn't be too much of an issue?


I'd build a new, similar model for Dave to represent the plasma gun as it's a significant and important change. On the other hand, if Dave started with a lasgun and swapped it out for an autogun or shotgun, then it's close enough. Pistols of course go in holsters. Could be any sort of pistol in there.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 01:51:17


Post by: kadeton


fresus wrote:
The lightest vehicles are still T5/W6/4+ (Eldar skimmers, sentinels), which require 36 S4 AP0 hits to take down. That's 27 marines in rapid fire range.

Do you know what else takes 36 S4 AP0 hits, or "27 Marines in Rapid Fire range", to take down? Six Space Marines. I don't think many people would argue that six Marines would make an unfair Kill Team.

A Dreadnought is as tough (against bolter fire) as 12 Marines, but considerably weaker against any multiple-damage weapons, and doesn't have the overkill problem.

Putting a Dreadnought up against a squad of Marines is already a pretty reasonable fight with the current 40k rules, so I doubt it would take more than subtle tweaks to make it work in Kill Team.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 03:03:43


Post by: Dandelion


 kadeton wrote:
fresus wrote:
The lightest vehicles are still T5/W6/4+ (Eldar skimmers, sentinels), which require 36 S4 AP0 hits to take down. That's 27 marines in rapid fire range.

Do you know what else takes 36 S4 AP0 hits, or "27 Marines in Rapid Fire range", to take down? Six Space Marines. I don't think many people would argue that six Marines would make an unfair Kill Team.

A Dreadnought is as tough (against bolter fire) as 12 Marines, but considerably weaker against any multiple-damage weapons, and doesn't have the overkill problem.

Putting a Dreadnought up against a squad of Marines is already a pretty reasonable fight with the current 40k rules, so I doubt it would take more than subtle tweaks to make it work in Kill Team.


Remember, this is Shadow War 2.0 not mini 40k. The rules are unique to this game. I highly doubt you'll be able to take more than 10 marines max.

So considering the scope of the game, having a single model be as tough as an entire kill team is ridiculous. And not every kill team will have the tools to deal with such vehicles at all. It'll be too skewed. On top of that, any heavy weapon specialist will likely be expensive and limited in number per team. This would lead to specialist sniping rendering vehicles unstoppable.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 05:51:11


Post by: Zhothac Thoth


Dandelion wrote:
 kadeton wrote:
fresus wrote:
The lightest vehicles are still T5/W6/4+ (Eldar skimmers, sentinels), which require 36 S4 AP0 hits to take down. That's 27 marines in rapid fire range.

Do you know what else takes 36 S4 AP0 hits, or "27 Marines in Rapid Fire range", to take down? Six Space Marines. I don't think many people would argue that six Marines would make an unfair Kill Team.

A Dreadnought is as tough (against bolter fire) as 12 Marines, but considerably weaker against any multiple-damage weapons, and doesn't have the overkill problem.

Putting a Dreadnought up against a squad of Marines is already a pretty reasonable fight with the current 40k rules, so I doubt it would take more than subtle tweaks to make it work in Kill Team.


Remember, this is Shadow War 2.0 not mini 40k. The rules are unique to this game. I highly doubt you'll be able to take more than 10 marines max.

So considering the scope of the game, having a single model be as tough as an entire kill team is ridiculous. And not every kill team will have the tools to deal with such vehicles at all. It'll be too skewed. On top of that, any heavy weapon specialist will likely be expensive and limited in number per team. This would lead to specialist sniping rendering vehicles unstoppable.
Yeah everyone needs remember that this basically it's own game. There's d10 in the preview so we can guess some of the rolls need to be made using a d10 maybe even all of them. Which means there could be new stats written for models being used in this game. Saying how many shoots it takes to kill a vehicle is meaningless as it could end up being different for kill team.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 06:08:40


Post by: kadeton


Dandelion wrote:
Remember, this is Shadow War 2.0 not mini 40k. The rules are unique to this game. I highly doubt you'll be able to take more than 10 marines max.

So considering the scope of the game, having a single model be as tough as an entire kill team is ridiculous. And not every kill team will have the tools to deal with such vehicles at all. It'll be too skewed. On top of that, any heavy weapon specialist will likely be expensive and limited in number per team. This would lead to specialist sniping rendering vehicles unstoppable.

Why would having a single model as your entire Kill Team be a problem, per se? If the rules make such a contest fun for both players, then I see nothing wrong with it.

The resilience we're talking about is predicated on the opposing Kill Team not having the tools to deal with such vehicles. We're discussing shooting them with basic anti-infantry weapons, totally unsuited to the task - and the infantry still do just fine. If your Marine team brings (for example) a multi-melta and a plasma gun, that Dreadnought's screwed.

"Specialist sniping" has been a frequent point of contention. I'm curious what makes people think that "specialist sniping" is going to be possible in this new ruleset, and even if it is, why that would only be a problem when vehicles were involved?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 09:34:26


Post by: Mr Morden


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's what special weapons are for! And equipment like meltabombs or haywire grenades.


Plus I assume every model will be able to throw Krak Grenades? (if they have them - good for Marines and Sisters)


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 10:25:39


Post by: CassianSol



I don't know why anyone is making rules assumptions given that they have told us literally nothing about the rules.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 12:21:44


Post by: Mysterio


CassianSol wrote:

I don't know why anyone is making rules assumptions given that they have told us literally nothing about the rules.


I think you just answered your own question?

In the absence of information, we get speculation.

And discussion too, don't forget!

I think everyone is just excited for a true skirmish scale game set in the 40K setting.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 12:34:01


Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl


Kind of hope they take a "same model, different ruleset", and that there are special profile that replace the 40k ones.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 16:01:30


Post by: Dysartes


 Bobthehero wrote:
I really hope that rule is not included, its so stupid.


Errrm - which rule?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 16:33:56


Post by: Bobthehero


 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Well if shadow war is being used as the basis for this, you could only target the nearest model unless you had specific rules.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 16:44:49


Post by: meatybtz


Being a salty old bastard who was there on launch day to buy Rogue Trader...

I am dubious about this. Despite playing every version of Kill Team ever made, even the much more fun fan-version.

Unlike most folks I enjoyed Shadow War. For those that didn't know Shadow War was a copy and paste (in totality) of 2nd Edition 40k. If you add back in squad rules and a few odds and ends you can play a 2nd edition game with the presented rules.

The problem with it was the same thing that is wrong with MOST editions of 40K when people really complain.. it isn't the rules it's the army lists-codexes.

Shadow War suffered from really horrible army lists that were just ludicrous. A primary example is Grey Knights vs the Dark Eldar list. Yeah. awful.

If you want a really fun kill team game I liked a ton was Company of Iron for warmachine. It was a hoot.

By far though the best "kill team" game ever made was Mordheim. It was better than the OE Necromunda to be fair.

Fore pure funsies: Gorka-Morka was an awesome game. Digga NOBS!

In this new one, success or failure is less about the core rules set and more about how good the lists are. One of the things that made people have so much fun with Mordheim were the gang lists. You could bring any particular gang and have a good match up (not withstanding what happens later when gangs level up and the you can crush all enemies if you get good enough).

Its a game, we play them because they are fun. If they are not fun they are not a game. Here is to hoping they get the lists right. So far they have not had such a good record there of.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 16:50:41


Post by: Dandelion


 kadeton wrote:
Dandelion wrote:
Remember, this is Shadow War 2.0 not mini 40k. The rules are unique to this game. I highly doubt you'll be able to take more than 10 marines max.

So considering the scope of the game, having a single model be as tough as an entire kill team is ridiculous. And not every kill team will have the tools to deal with such vehicles at all. It'll be too skewed. On top of that, any heavy weapon specialist will likely be expensive and limited in number per team. This would lead to specialist sniping rendering vehicles unstoppable.

Why would having a single model as your entire Kill Team be a problem, per se? If the rules make such a contest fun for both players, then I see nothing wrong with it.

That's a huge "if".

 kadeton wrote:
[
The resilience we're talking about is predicated on the opposing Kill Team not having the tools to deal with such vehicles. We're discussing shooting them with basic anti-infantry weapons, totally unsuited to the task - and the infantry still do just fine. If your Marine team brings (for example) a multi-melta and a plasma gun, that Dreadnought's screwed.

Not every team has the same access to special/heavy weapons as Marines. Tau strike teams for example have 0 anti-tank. Pathfinder weapons are more for heavy infantry. Stealthsuits would likely be the smallest platform with an anti-tank gun. So right off the bat, it's not balanced.

 kadeton wrote:

"Specialist sniping" has been a frequent point of contention. I'm curious what makes people think that "specialist sniping" is going to be possible in this new ruleset, and even if it is, why that would only be a problem when vehicles were involved?


I can't imagine a rule set that would make specialists sniping difficult. If a player knows that only 2 fighters can kill his dreadnought then he'll prioritize them. Once they're gone, the dreadnought is essentially unstoppable. And remember, the dreadnought is ALSO supported by an entire kill team.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 18:09:24


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


If this game doesn’t feature vehicles then I’m not interested. If I want to have infantry vs infantry fights, I already have Necromunda.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 18:29:02


Post by: Mysterio


Necromunda doesn't have rules for every race/faction in 40K though, does it?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 18:47:08


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 Mysterio wrote:
Necromunda doesn't have rules for every race/faction in 40K though, does it?


That’s a fair point, but isn’t incentive enough to get me excited.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 22:43:41


Post by: Tastyfish


Did no one else like the Kill team vs Goon squads of 1st and 2nd versions of Kill team?

Always felt like that was a better narrative than elite teams constantly encountering elite teams (though Kill team vs Kill team has it's place). Elite kill team vs Basic mooks and a Nemesis with their Death Squad seems like something you'd be able to easily add in as a variant (and a good way of dealing with mismatched XP teams).


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/26 23:41:34


Post by: Racerguy180


I think a dread vs a squad woukd be badass. esp if they do something for saves or str/toughness. I'm kinda looking forward to this.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 00:25:34


Post by: reluxor


fresus wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
fresus wrote:
I think even small vehicles are a bad thing.
They're very hard to kill with standard infantry weapons. And in a KT format, you can't protect your special/heavy weapons, since each guy is its own unit. The player with a vehicle can usually just focus down on the 1 or 2 opposing models that can really put a hurt on the vehicle, and then enjoy a model with insane durability.
Unless of course the rules are different enough that everything I just said doesn't apply (like being able to hit/kill the vehicle's pilot, or just an overall decreased durability).


I mean, assuming this new version will be related to the 8th rules, is that kind of thing even an issue any more? So long as they keep anything heftier than a Dreadnought out of things a bit of focus fire should be able to handle vehicles now everything can hurt everything else, it's not like Ye Olden Tymes when losing your dedicated AT weapons meant you were unable to harm vehicles at all.

The lightest vehicles are still T5/W6/4+ (Eldar skimmers, sentinels), which require 36 S4 AP0 hits to take down. That's 27 marines in rapid fire range.
A Dread is twice as hard to put down with S4/AP0 weapons, and four times as hard with S3. So that's 144 BS4+ lasguns in RF range to take it down.
I also hope we'll see some small vehicles, but I still think the rules need to be drastically different for it to work.


Ok but what about krak grenades ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Process wrote:
 Crimson wrote:


A big part why I can't get into Shadespire is that there is no customisation. I don't want to play these predetermined characters who someone else envisioned, I want to create my own heroes!



Same for me (also i dont like the sigmar setting), i want to construct my own characters, have already started on some Whitescars- http://picbear.club/media/1720672020235312929_6000229864

Also, in terms of tournament play i dont like the idea of it just being the same preset characters against each other for example in marine vs marine games- id much rather go with the same way the LOTR events work; you bring one good army and one evil army, keep it narrative. So you could bring one imperium force and one chaos/xenos force and play an even amount of games with each through the day.


Wow it is really cool


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 03:06:04


Post by: kadeton


Dandelion wrote:
 kadeton wrote:
Why would having a single model as your entire Kill Team be a problem, per se? If the rules make such a contest fun for both players, then I see nothing wrong with it.

That's a huge "if".

I mean... it is, and it isn't. It's a huge "if" in the sense that GW has a poor track record in writing balanced rules, but it's also the "if" that is the fundamental challenge of designing the entire game. Can GW make Kill Team fun? If so, then I see no reason why they can't make it fun with light vehicles included.

Dandelion wrote:
Not every team has the same access to special/heavy weapons as Marines. Tau strike teams for example have 0 anti-tank. Pathfinder weapons are more for heavy infantry. Stealthsuits would likely be the smallest platform with an anti-tank gun. So right off the bat, it's not balanced.

And you're assuming that you can only take a Tau Strike Team with no anti-tank weapons because...?

Dandelion wrote:
I can't imagine a rule set that would make specialists sniping difficult. If a player knows that only 2 fighters can kill his dreadnought then he'll prioritize them. Once they're gone, the dreadnought is essentially unstoppable. And remember, the dreadnought is ALSO supported by an entire kill team.

I can imagine several variations of rules that would make sniping very difficult. Your failure of imagination is not my problem.

Also, the dreadnought is not "essentially unstoppable" - as shown, they can be brought down just by bolter fire, let alone grenades and close combat attacks. If a dreadnought is "unstoppable" under those circumstances, then a squad of 10 Marines is also "unstoppable".

What do you mean when you say the dreadnought is also supported by an entire Kill Team? In the scenario we're discussing, the dreadnought is (more or less) the entire Kill Team just by itself.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 03:26:29


Post by: drbored


My main hope is that I can convince some of my friends to go in on this with me.

One of the major selling points of past iterations of Kill Team was to be able to make your squad out of one box of guys. One box of Tac Marines or Chaos Marines, something that's not going to break the bank, that you can build with some extra flair on each model and paint up relatively quickly. I don't care whether I can use the same squad legally in a game of 40k, and I hope GW keeps that in mind. I'd rather have a varied squad of models with different weapons and load-outs and have that somehow balanced against others.

In a smaller game, especially focusing around specific troop units, you'd think it'd be easier to balance. In the trailer, GW shows off basic troop units for just about every faction, implying that the focus would be on those troop units. A squad of Rubric Marines versus a squad of Skitarii Vanguard. Necrom Warriors versus Dark Eldar Wyches.

The focus shouldn't be on cheesing the game. More than ever, my hope is that this is an opportunity to introduce people to 40k with a friendly game you can pick-up and put down quickly, with replayability and enough rules and options that you can spend a little extra time customizing your squad and naming each member.

A little extra emphasis on story wouldn't be bad either. Imagine a little extra roleplaying in a game of kill team, creating nemesis between your friends as you compete to kill each other and capture objectives. Not just crunching numbers and spamming something, or taking something so big that your opponent can't kill it.

If you take a dreadnought and snipe out your opponent's one anti-tank weapon, what fun is that? Game over. Congrats, you won, but you don't win anything. Instead, you lose out on a fun game.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 03:28:16


Post by: Dandelion


 kadeton wrote:

What do you mean when you say the dreadnought is also supported by an entire Kill Team? In the scenario we're discussing, the dreadnought is (more or less) the entire Kill Team just by itself.


Evidently, we are not discussing the same scenario. This Kill Team will in no way shape or form be like previous Kill Team games. It is basically Shadow War with a broader scope and fresher rules.
- You are NOT going to take 200 pts of whatever codex and use regular 40k rules.
- You will instead collect a team for a Necromunda-like campaign, with a currency, team limits and fighter progression. Rules for each team will be in the main book, like Shadow War.

If one could hire a dreadnought, then you would supplement your team with it, NOT use it as your kill team. Hence why it would be a bad idea.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 04:01:28


Post by: kadeton


Dandelion wrote:
- You will instead collect a team for a Necromunda-like campaign, with a currency, team limits and fighter progression.

The extent to which your selection of models will allow for flexibility beyond those expectations remains to be seen, I think. We already know that you'll be able to take Thunderwolf Cavalry, for example. Will we see bikes? Light vehicles? Transports? Nobody knows. Previous versions of Kill Team have included those things, so it's not unreasonable to imagine they might make it into this version in some form.

If they choose not to allow dreadnoughts or other vehicles in the game, I won't lose any sleep over it. My objection is to the idea that those elements cannot work in the game, not whether or not they will actually be included.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 07:38:54


Post by: BrookM


Tastyfish wrote:
Did no one else like the Kill team vs Goon squads of 1st and 2nd versions of Kill team?

Always felt like that was a better narrative than elite teams constantly encountering elite teams (though Kill team vs Kill team has it's place). Elite kill team vs Basic mooks and a Nemesis with their Death Squad seems like something you'd be able to easily add in as a variant (and a good way of dealing with mismatched XP teams).
It's a fun game variant, but only really fun for the kill team player, as the goon squad player would go through the motions until it was his turn to play as the team.

Around here nobody wanted to play as the goons.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 08:07:26


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Dandelion wrote:

Evidently, we are not discussing the same scenario. This Kill Team will in no way shape or form be like previous Kill Team games. It is basically Shadow War with a broader scope and fresher rules.
- You are NOT going to take 200 pts of whatever codex and use regular 40k rules.
- You will instead collect a team for a Necromunda-like campaign, with a currency, team limits and fighter progression. Rules for each team will be in the main book, like Shadow War.

If one could hire a dreadnought, then you would supplement your team with it, NOT use it as your kill team. Hence why it would be a bad idea.


While they've said this new Kill Team will have its own ruleset (rather than being an expansion for 40k like the last versions), we have been told nothing to let us think it'll be like Shadow War. Conversely, from the screenshots we've seen, we know that the idea of specialists has been carried over from previous versions of Kill Team. At this point, speculating over how "unkillable" dreadnoughts or hive tyrants or whatever will be is meaningless.


Personally, I hope that any vehicles allowed are no bigger than light recce vehicles - Sentinels, Pirahnas, Vypers, Attack Bikes, that sort of thing. Anything bigger should be part of a special scenario.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 08:21:32


Post by: kadeton


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Personally, I hope that any vehicles allowed are no bigger than light recce vehicles - Sentinels, Pirahnas, Vypers, Attack Bikes, that sort of thing. Anything bigger should be part of a special scenario.

In 40k terms (with the full awareness that we're talking about a new ruleset), how would you decide whether a particular vehicle (or monster) was a "light recce vehicle"-equivalent or something bigger?

I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely curious about how people draw the line on what they feel is acceptable. Would it be as simple as "Nothing with more than 6 Wds, and no transport capacity", or more complicated than that?


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 08:28:40


Post by: schoon


meatybtz wrote:
In this new one, success or failure is less about the core rules set and more about how good the lists are. One of the things that made people have so much fun with Mordheim were the gang lists. You could bring any particular gang and have a good match up (not withstanding what happens later when gangs level up and the you can crush all enemies if you get good enough).

The rules have to be solid enough to support "good" or "bad" lists.

As you point out with Mordheim, a solid set of rules combined with good lists makes for a good game. If they don't set up the right framework, all the lists will be for nought.

While there's no guarantee, GW has had a better track record recently (Shadespire, Necromunda) of caring about the rules framework.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 08:41:02


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I find criteria like that pointless - just specify the units directly. I don't follow all the factions, so I may miss something, but:

Space Marines: Attack Bike, Thunderwolf cavalry, possibly Land Speeers (base variant only) and Land Speeder Storm (normally I'd be against including transports, but this fits the theme, I think)
Imperial Guard: Scout Sentinels, Tauros Assault Vehicles, possibly Centaur Artillery Tractors
Adeptus Mechanicus - Sydonian Dragoon, possibly the Ironstrider Ballistarius.
Necrons - Tomb Blades
Orks - Wartrakks, possibly Warbuggies and Deffkoptas
Eldar - Vypers, War Walkers, Harlequin Starweavers, Dark Eldar Venoms
Tau - Piranhas, standard and stealth battlesuits, Tetras
Tyranids - Zoanthrope, Venomthrope, Lictor, perhaps a Ravenor.

I'm not including armoured sentinels, the more heavily armed land speeders or the Wasp warwalker and the like because those look more like assault units to be fielded in battle, rather than something sent to roam ahead of the lines.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 09:06:40


Post by: Kroem


Yep scout sentinels and stuff like that would be cool but I hope we won't be seeing riptide kill teams!

My wish is that they include the 'guards guards' mechanics from Necromundia so that we can do stealthy missions as well as the standard clash of the vanguards.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 09:09:19


Post by: kadeton


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I find criteria like that pointless - just specify the units directly.

Fair enough. I'd prefer more structure than just picking units, as that tends to leave people whinging about why the thing they wanted wasn't picked when some other thing that's roughly equivalent was, but it sounds like you're basing your decision on theme rather than "power", which I can get behind.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 09:30:34


Post by: AndrewGPaul


The way I'm looking at it, is this is basically a meeting engagement between two opposing recce or commando teams. You wouldn't get things like Dreadnoughts turning up in this sort of scenario because they're too big and loud and slow (if the mission needed a dreadnought's firepower, then send in a Scout squad with a teleport homer, and beam the big guy in ), but a squadron of war walkers or a land speeder is the sort of thing that would get sent out to patrol the wider area, and would potentially run into enemy groups doing the same thing.

Of course, there's scope for sending a commando team in to blow up the enemy dreadnought/helbrute/carnifex/morkanaut/Knight/whatever, but that's best served by a special scenario (which the previous Kill Team included; I suspect the new one might have something similar).

A lot of it depends on the rules. If they're something like Necromunda Underhive (ie pretty similar to 8th edition 40k, but with some additions and changes), then you could probably write stats for the big thing of your choice easily, using the stats for units and weapons provided to extrapolate what any new gear might do.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/27 09:41:36


Post by: fresus


The rules are supposed to be different than normal 40K, so they'll probably have to rewrite the datasheets of the units they want to include.
They could actually change some units drastically when doing so. For instance, a Starweaver or a Venom could be considered to be a bigger jetbike: at the end of the day, it's still 3 dudes on a anti-grav platform, and you could say you just need to kill the dudes on top instead of destroying the chassis, just like for a normal jetbike. In that case, you can apply the standard bike profiles where you gain +1T and you have 1W per dude +1, and a 4+ save for Eldar. So a Venom would be T4 4W 4+save. You could easily do something similar for Land speeders, piranha and other small open-topped vehicles.
But I would still prefer if the big wychs models were reavers and helions (with bloodbrides as elites and syrens as HQs), instead of having something as big as a venom.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 05:42:43


Post by: Dandelion


 AndrewGPaul wrote:

While they've said this new Kill Team will have its own ruleset (rather than being an expansion for 40k like the last versions), we have been told nothing to let us think it'll be like Shadow War. Conversely, from the screenshots we've seen, we know that the idea of specialists has been carried over from previous versions of Kill Team. At this point, speculating over how "unkillable" dreadnoughts or hive tyrants or whatever will be is meaningless.


Personally, I hope that any vehicles allowed are no bigger than light recce vehicles - Sentinels, Pirahnas, Vypers, Attack Bikes, that sort of thing. Anything bigger should be part of a special scenario.


My main point was that this game will have its own rule set with recruitment, progression, special missions and an overall campaign. Hence like Shadow War or Necromunda. Many people seemed to have this notion that it would be small scale 40k with some additional rules. (eg take 200 pts from your codex with these restrictions...)

Regardless of how the rules turn out, having a single large model (in this case a vehicle) acting as part of the Kill Team would be a bad idea IMO. It dampens a lot of tactics and can present a hard counter to certain teams. Imagine you lost your heavy weapons guy, or he's recovering and then you have to fight a team with a vehicle. Not fun.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 06:23:44


Post by: Racerguy180


Dandelion wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:

While they've said this new Kill Team will have its own ruleset (rather than being an expansion for 40k like the last versions), we have been told nothing to let us think it'll be like Shadow War. Conversely, from the screenshots we've seen, we know that the idea of specialists has been carried over from previous versions of Kill Team. At this point, speculating over how "unkillable" dreadnoughts or hive tyrants or whatever will be is meaningless.


Personally, I hope that any vehicles allowed are no bigger than light recce vehicles - Sentinels, Pirahnas, Vypers, Attack Bikes, that sort of thing. Anything bigger should be part of a special scenario.


My main point was that this game will have its own rule set with recruitment, progression, special missions and an overall campaign. Hence like Shadow War or Necromunda. Many people seemed to have this notion that it would be small scale 40k with some additional rules. (eg take 200 pts from your codex with these restrictions...)

Regardless of how the rules turn out, having a single large model (in this case a vehicle) acting as part of the Kill Team would be a bad idea IMO. It dampens a lot of tactics and can present a hard counter to certain teams. Imagine you lost your heavy weapons guy, or he's recovering and then you have to fight a team with a vehicle. Not fun.


I hope it is like this. I want necro/sw progression and having missions where the goal is to disable/destroy vehicles, etc.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 08:01:23


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I think the progression might be more like Age of Sigmar's Path to Glory than Necromunda, but I'll wait and see.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 08:27:23


Post by: Chopstick


You mean AoS Skirmish? Path to Glory is a large scale skirmish with almost all of the unit availaable like Greater Demon and Boss unit.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 09:03:56


Post by: kodos


KT to 40k will be more like Shadespire to AoS


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 09:07:57


Post by: ImAGeek


 kodos wrote:
KT to 40k will be more like Shadespire to AoS


In what sense? Shadespire is a board game with no progression or customisation at all.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 09:11:20


Post by: Chopstick


 kodos wrote:
KT to 40k will be more like Shadespire to AoS


Shadespire is a card game with miniature, the team have fixed fighter and no customization, no campaign progression. It had nothing in common with Kill team.

A lot of misinformed people think Shadespire is AoS Mordheim and that's completely wrong.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 09:11:47


Post by: eflix29


KT to 40k will be more like Shadespire to AoS


Dude, Shadespire is played with 3-6 miniatures. You can't choose wich unit you use. action uses cards and special dice. Your warband stay the same game after game.

This isn't even close to Kill Team. Or BFG.

AoS skirmish and KT are more alike.



[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 10:34:50


Post by: kodos


So point me the source that tells you how new KT will look like

How do you know that it will be not sharedpire but mini AoS fpr the only info we have is that there are upgrades in campaign mode and different dice


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopstick wrote:

A lot of misinformed people think Shadespire is AoS Mordheim and that's completely wrong.


Shadespire is the official tournament game for Fantasy and KT will be the official tournament game for 40k


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 10:55:45


Post by: Chopstick


 kodos wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopstick wrote:

A lot of misinformed people think Shadespire is AoS Mordheim and that's completely wrong.


Shadespire is the official tournament game for Fantasy and KT will be the official tournament game for 40k


That do not mean the gameplay will be the same.

Again, you are seriously misinformed. Try watching a video explain how Shadespire is played.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 10:58:27


Post by: Nostromodamus


Point me to a source that says KT will be like Shadespire, and not like every other previous version of KT.


[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 125 : commander expansion @ 2018/03/30 11:04:04


Post by: Mr_Rose


 kodos wrote:
So point me the source that tells you how new KT will look like

How do you know that it will be not sharedpire but mini AoS fpr the only info we have is that there are upgrades in campaign mode and different dice

You just said it yourself: Shadespire has no continuity between games whatsoever. None. Not even as a tournament option. You pick your team and build your deck and that’s it.
Just by having campaign options, KT is already very different from Shadespire.
Additionally, KT is not played on hexes or any other grid; as we can see from the intro video, it is a free movement game much like other skirmish wargames. Then there’s the terrain (somewhere between abstracted to vanishing and non-existent in Shadespire) implying a line of sight mechanic based on the minis rather than the board, and the use of regular numeric d6 and d10 dice rather than custom symbols. Oh and the game apparently uses regular 40k minis rather than having official custom sets for each team, which, aside from being yet another obvious difference, implies thar units will have options (at least all the ones in the unit box) because the last thing GW needs is Mom complaining that little Timmy can’t play his new game because he built the models wrong.
And that’s just the differences I can come up with in 30 seconds, having watched the video twice. I’m sure someone will have spotted others.