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Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 16:32:56


Post by: nels1031


Pretty crazy news!

I vaguely remember the Unabomber, which is more related to this, but I remember when the DC snipers were at large for 3 weeks and how guarded the communities in the DMV area became because of it. When they were caught, there was a pulpable relief.

AUSTIN, Texas — Texas' capital city was rocked by a fourth bombing this month, which injured two people and was caused by a tripwire that investigators say showed "a different level of skill" than the package bombs used in the three prior attacks.

Police Chief Brian Manley told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Monday that both men who were injured in Sunday night's explosion in the southwestern Austin neighborhood of Travis Country are white, unlike the victims in the three earlier blasts, who were black or Hispanic. He said the blast involved a tripwire, though it wasn't clear how or where it was strung. The injured men were riding or pushing bicycles when the explosives detonated, unlike the first three attacks, in which package bombs were left on people's doorsteps.

Authorities work the scene of an explosion in Austin, Texas, Sunday, March 18, 2018. At least a few people were injured in another explosion in Texas' capital late Sunday, after three package bombs detonated this month in other parts of the city, killing two people and injuring two others. (Nick Wagner/Austin American-Statesman via AP)

Authorities on Monday were canvassing the area in search of anything suspicious, and residents were warned to remain indoors and to call 911 if they needed to leave their homes.

Travis Country is far from the sites of the earlier bombings, which occurred over two-plus weeks in residential neighborhoods east of Interstate 35. The highway divides the city, with the east side historically being poorer and more heavily minority than the west side, though that has changed as gentrification has raised home prices and rents everywhere.

The first of the four explosions was caused by a package bomb that detonated at a northeastern Austin home on March 2, killing a 39-year-old man. Two other package bombs exploded farther south on March 12. The first killed a 17-year-old and wounded his mother and the second injured a 75-year-old woman.

At a news conference hours after Sunday's blast, which happened around 8:30 p.m., Manley again warned people not to pick up or approach suspicious items. He also said authorities worked overnight to clear a suspicious backpack found in the area that was separately reported.

Mayor Steve Adler said the latest explosion only further raised anxieties in the city.

"That concern is legitimate and real," Adler said, adding that residents should also be reassured by the massive police response to the attacks. Droves of federal agents are investigating, along with Austin police.

"That anxiousness is going to continue until we can find the answer," Adler said.

Spring break ends Monday for the University of Texas and many area school districts, meaning people who were out of town have returned home to heightened fears.

The university's campus police warned returning students to be wary, saying, "We must look out for one another." None of the four attacks happened close to the university's sprawling campus near the heart of Austin.

Police kept residential streets near Sunday night's blast on lockdown, gradually expanding their barricades. Before daybreak Monday, Austin police pushed another alert to cellphones advising residents to continue staying indoors and to call 911 if they needed to leave their homes before late morning. Austin's school district announced that buses wouldn't be going into the Travis Country neighborhood because of police activity and that any "tardies or absences due to this situation will be excused."

But concern spread well past the immediate blast site.

Andrew Zimmerman, 44, a coffee shop worker on the city's west side, said he's lived in Austin his entire life.

"This makes me sick," Zimmerman said, noting the prospect of a tripwire being used to trigger Sunday night's explosion adds a "new level" of suspected professionalism since that kind of device is harder to guard against than just being vigilant about reporting suspect packages.

"That's what scares me a little bit," he added.

The two men injured on Sunday are in their 20s. Police said they were hospitalized with injuries that weren't life-threatening.

That's a departure from the previous explosions. They were likely related and involved packages that had not been mailed or delivered by private carrier but left overnight on doorsteps. Manley originally suggested they could have been hate crimes since all the victims of the first three explosions were black or Hispanic, but now says that investigators aren't ruling out any possible motive.

The latest explosion came hours after authorities raised the reward by $50,000 for information leading to the arrest of whoever is responsible for the first three explosions. It now totals $115,000.

Sunday was the final day of the South By Southwest music festival, which draws hundreds of thousands to Austin every March. The explosions occurred far from its activities, though a downtown concert by hip-hop band The Roots was canceled Saturday night after a bomb threat. Authorities later arrested a 26-year-old man, and the incident did not appear to be related to any previous explosions.

The PGA's Dell Technologies Match Play tournament is scheduled to begin in Austin on Wednesday, and dozens of the world's top golfers were set to begin arriving the day before.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 17:17:37


Post by: Frazzled


The first three we're thought to be tied to one extended family. The fourth is much different. They still have the neighborhood shut down, looking for more boobytraps.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 17:39:36


Post by: godardc


There have been 4 bombings in Austin recently ?
DakkaDakka has just became my primary source of news !


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 17:41:18


Post by: Tannhauser42


The scary thing about this kind of thing is you don't know if there's just one person/group behind it. Copycats can easily join in when you can potentially use the USPS to deliver your bombs for you. Hell, Amazon uses plain white vans and other unmarked vehicles for their deliveries. Who can tell if someone dropping off a package at the house down the street is legit or not?


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 17:44:26


Post by: Desubot


Yeah this is news to me. how terrible.

Though i dont recall package bombs being a new thing. the fact that Prime type services are so prevalent its not good.

better pay attention to whats being ordered and when its delivered.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 17:52:31


Post by: Captain Joystick


 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The scary thing about this kind of thing is you don't know if there's just one person/group behind it. Copycats can easily join in when you can potentially use the USPS to deliver your bombs for you.


It sounds like they're currently operating under the assumption that the perpetrator is delivering and setting up the devices himself. Delivery through mail or courier brings up a lot of potential complications.

But yes, I'm almost ashamed to say my media-fed brain immediately went to 'rival psychopaths' when it the differences were mentioned.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 18:51:03


Post by: daedalus


Man, that's pretty horrible. Somehow this completely flew under my radar.

I have Hispanic family in Austin. Hope they catch the bastards responsible for both sets of attacks and do something appropriately Texan to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The scary thing about this kind of thing is you don't know if there's just one person/group behind it. Copycats can easily join in when you can potentially use the USPS to deliver your bombs for you. Hell, Amazon uses plain white vans and other unmarked vehicles for their deliveries. Who can tell if someone dropping off a package at the house down the street is legit or not?


The amazon folks around here wear lanyards that very brightly identify them, but it's a lanyard; not exactly like it's any sort of real badge of authenticity.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 19:10:07


Post by: Easy E


Yeah, the first three seemed like there was a "White Supremacy" connection.

The Fourth is the outlier.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 19:38:56


Post by: Mysterio


 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The scary thing about this kind of thing is you don't know if there's just one person/group behind it. Copycats can easily join in when you can potentially use the USPS to deliver your bombs for you. Hell, Amazon uses plain white vans and other unmarked vehicles for their deliveries. Who can tell if someone dropping off a package at the house down the street is legit or not?


I thought the story noted the packages did not go though USPS, UPS, etc. but where instead dropped off overnight?

I guess if you see a package outside your door first thing in the morning, be careful.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 19:45:46


Post by: daedalus


 Mysterio wrote:

I thought the story noted the packages did not go though USPS, UPS, etc. but where instead dropped off overnight?

I guess if you see a package outside your door first thing in the morning, be careful.


Sure, but the point is that if your neighbors see an unmarked white van and a dude in plainclothes dropping a package off somewhere, it's less suspicious than it would have been 10 years ago.

I've had the amazon guys deliver as late as 9 or so before even though it's supposed to get there by 8. There's a lot of people who probably don't go outside after dark, because they just have no reason to, so there's a large window of overlap there between legitimate but late amazon deliveries that might appear shady and explosive deliveries made by donkey-caves. Therein lies the problem.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/19 22:18:39


Post by: whembly


Based on the map...
https://www.statesman.com/news/local/map-shows-location-austin-bombs/Y6FDTW2EDX3P1JYH0GN6TL/

...and the two times I've driven around Austin... seems pretty indiscriminate...no?

Also, reward up to $115,000 for his capture...


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 03:20:07


Post by: Frazzled


First three are in a defined area, delivered to people related to one church with the thought that one was a mustaken address. The last us just a freaking ied that took out two bicyclists.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 03:48:55


Post by: Co'tor Shas


3 possiblites IMO

wanting to distract from the connection to draw police off

copycat crime

just plain random bombing, and before was a coincidence


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 04:35:34


Post by: techsoldaten


Austin is a weird place with a very diverse population.

The motivations of the bomber could be anything.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 12:25:58


Post by: Tannhauser42


And now a bomb went off in a FedEx facility near San Antonio. Radio news reported that the box was from Austin, going to Austin, but I didn't see that confirmed in a quick look at CNN's online reporting.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 13:10:28


Post by: djones520


 Tannhauser42 wrote:
And now a bomb went off in a FedEx facility near San Antonio. Radio news reported that the box was from Austin, going to Austin, but I didn't see that confirmed in a quick look at CNN's online reporting.


If it's the same guy, that's his first mistake. Authorities have a trail to follow now, no matter how small it may be.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 14:21:20


Post by: nels1031


 djones520 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
And now a bomb went off in a FedEx facility near San Antonio. Radio news reported that the box was from Austin, going to Austin, but I didn't see that confirmed in a quick look at CNN's online reporting.


If it's the same guy, that's his first mistake. Authorities have a trail to follow now, no matter how small it may be.


I'd say the rapidity of the bombings is a mistake as well. In less than a month, they probably have more physical/forensic and most definitely more digital evidence to sift through in less than a month than the first decade of the Unabombers spree.

I guess the silver lining to this is that the bombs are relatively low yield and the targets(if they are indeed targeted) are individuals. Hopefully the bomber doesn't graduate up to public transport or other potential mass casualties scenarios.



Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 14:30:49


Post by: Tannhauser42


In a way, there is such a thing as too much evidence. All of it has to be collected, catalogued, reported, and logged in. And then the analysis can start. With so much evidence coming in so quickly, they may not be able to spend the time they need to fully analyze the first before they're pushed to start on the second.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 16:17:45


Post by: whembly


Holy Cannoli!
BREAKING: Second package is found at Texas FedEx office; police believe it is loaded with an explosive device: San Antonio police chief https://t.co/zDY0X4Nq0L pic.twitter.com/E9c88d1fdx

— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) March 20, 2018


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 17:11:33


Post by: TheMeanDM


Besides the terrorist nature of this and the loss of life and injuries...the the thing that bothers me the most is how some people have already painted this with the brush of racism without having any/some/all the facts (and obviously without having the bomber's motivation).

I do not condone racism. However, I also do not condone anybody painting things with the racism brush when there is no clear evidence of racism.

There is already far too much fake and misleading gak that comes from the "right"....so often so many of that persuasion are so quick to believe so many false and deceptive things without checking facts.

I am a center left kind of fella....I do not like sensationalist "news" stories that unnecessarily get people emotionally charged up based on...opinion?..conjecture?...whatever you want to call it.

The "left" are not immune to the same kinds of knee-jerk emotional reactions that the "right" falls into....but if we arent vigilant about using facts and information and instead allowing divisive language and opinion to sway our thoughts...then how is there any difference between the two (in this sense)?


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 17:42:21


Post by: whembly


We don't know anything yet...

People are scared and are trying to rationalize why this is happening...it's hard not to try find patterns in all of this.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 17:46:36


Post by: Frazzled


I have an alibi! I was being oriented by the city!


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 18:02:25


Post by: TheMeanDM


I "understand" the fear...however...when certain people or organizations are pushing a narrative/agenda that actually encourages MORE fear...especially from one or two specific groups within the popilus...and based on speculation and opinion...thwt is when they should be called out.

It is not constructive in any way shape or form to scare people with disinformation like that.

** I say "understand" because I have never faced such a situation so can only understand it from an intellectual stance.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 18:36:37


Post by: Disciple of Fate


I'm pretty sure the rascism motive was floated when the initial victims were only African American as opposed to the now more diverse group of victims. However, the racism idea might still be valid if (heavy heavy if) its not all the same bomber and such. But would it be any different if the victims all belonged to another minority groups like Jewish for example? The same would happen I believe.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 19:00:56


Post by: Grey Templar


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I'm pretty sure the rascism motive was floated when the initial victims were only African American as opposed to the now more diverse group of victims. However, the racism idea might still be valid if (heavy heavy if) its not all the same bomber and such. But would it be any different if the victims all belonged to another minority groups like Jewish for example? The same would happen I believe.


Given that this has occurred in a very short length of time, I doubt we have a copycat on our hands who is attacking more random victims while the original is only coming from a racist angle. Bomb making is a relatively slow process so it always takes a while for a copycat to appear since it requires the original to get publicity, for the copycat to get exposed to that publicity, for the copycat to gather materials to make bombs, etc... Unless the "copycat" was already gathering bomb materials, which would mean two serial bombers appearing in the same area at basically the same time, which would be a massively freaky coincidence.

Especially given the sophistication level of the bombs is relatively high and it has all occurred in a relatively short period of time, I highly doubt we have a copycat situation.

What is more likely is that its just a coincidence the first victims were African-American. He hand delivered the first bombs and then later began mailing them/setting up booby traps as he became more confidant in his bomb making. Its possible that the bomber lives in the area where the initial bombs were placed so they were more targets of convenience due to proximity.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 19:10:39


Post by: Captain Joystick


So immediately after speculating that the bomber wouldn't be dumb enough to try to deliver this kind of bomb via FedEx we have confirmation of the two top reasons why coming true.

Seems they've captured an undetonated explosive at that same FedEx site, (which would be bomb #6).

That raises the question of how many more are circulating right now.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 19:16:17


Post by: War Drone


 Frazzled wrote:
I have an alibi! I was being oriented by the city!


Prove it!
Personally, I think you were squeezing your Wiener...


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 19:32:30


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Grey Templar wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I'm pretty sure the rascism motive was floated when the initial victims were only African American as opposed to the now more diverse group of victims. However, the racism idea might still be valid if (heavy heavy if) its not all the same bomber and such. But would it be any different if the victims all belonged to another minority groups like Jewish for example? The same would happen I believe.


Given that this has occurred in a very short length of time, I doubt we have a copycat on our hands who is attacking more random victims while the original is only coming from a racist angle. Bomb making is a relatively slow process so it always takes a while for a copycat to appear since it requires the original to get publicity, for the copycat to get exposed to that publicity, for the copycat to gather materials to make bombs, etc... Unless the "copycat" was already gathering bomb materials, which would mean two serial bombers appearing in the same area at basically the same time, which would be a massively freaky coincidence.

Especially given the sophistication level of the bombs is relatively high and it has all occurred in a relatively short period of time, I highly doubt we have a copycat situation.

What is more likely is that its just a coincidence the first victims were African-American. He hand delivered the first bombs and then later began mailing them/setting up booby traps as he became more confidant in his bomb making. Its possible that the bomber lives in the area where the initial bombs were placed so they were more targets of convenience due to proximity.

Well that's why I placed the heavy emphasis on the if. But this is pretty weird for one person. His MO goes from packages delivered by him, to a tripwire, then almost immediatly back to packages but now through FedEx? Pretty strange.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/20 19:55:38


Post by: Tannhauser42


It could be more than one person, but not necessarily copycats, as they could be working together.
Everything right now, though, is "could" because we don't know enough yet.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 00:39:00


Post by: Frazzled


 War Drone wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I have an alibi! I was being oriented by the city!


Prove it!
Personally, I think you were squeezing your Wiener...

I have proof! A puddle of drool where I fell asleep!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gak another one went off at a Goodwill just now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's a lot. This guy has to be running out of inventory.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 01:08:16


Post by: djones520


 Frazzled wrote:
 War Drone wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I have an alibi! I was being oriented by the city!


Prove it!
Personally, I think you were squeezing your Wiener...

I have proof! A puddle of drool where I fell asleep!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gak another one went off at a Goodwill just now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's a lot. This guy has to be running out of inventory.


HME isn't that difficult to mass produce. The Afghan's have figured out how to make tons (literal unit of measurement) of it, in mud huts.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 03:25:35


Post by: sebster


 whembly wrote:
We don't know anything yet...

People are scared and are trying to rationalize why this is happening...it's hard not to try find patterns in all of this.


True, it is hard not to start looking for patterns, writing a story that makes all this make sense. It's that natural instinct that TheMeanDM is warning against, quite rightly, because our need to write those stories often leads to us making huge subconscious assumptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grey Templar wrote:
What is more likely is that its just a coincidence the first victims were African-American. He hand delivered the first bombs and then later began mailing them/setting up booby traps as he became more confidant in his bomb making. Its possible that the bomber lives in the area where the initial bombs were placed so they were more targets of convenience due to proximity.


Or the bomber hated one group of people because racism, then also targeted some other people to cover his tracks, or because he hates them for other reasons, which may also be racist for some reason. Or maybe none of that.

The point is we don't know, and shouldn't guess.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 09:15:00


Post by: jhe90


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5526159/Austin-bomber-shot-dead-police-try-arrest-him.html

That's all folks.

Seems there luck finaly ran out and police got them. It was only a matter of time.. The true reasons behind may start to come out later. There has to be a reason, however crazy or evil. Most people have a reason for somthing. There not deadpool

"The FBI and police tracked the bomber to the Round Rock area using cell phone technology, security video, store receipts before 'engaging him' around 3am on Wednesday, the station reports."


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 10:11:07


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Seeing some cobflicting reports that it wasn't the police who shot him, but that he blew himself up. Hopefully it was just one guy though and this is now over.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 10:42:09


Post by: nels1031


Nice.

Hopefully dude didn’t set up any other bombs/boobytraps before he was found.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 12:27:16


Post by: Mysterio


Last I heard he blew himself up, choosing suicide as the police were closing in on him in his car.

He drove into a ditch and trigger a bomb in his car.

Any word of a motive yet?


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 12:30:01


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


BBC has is that he detonated a device, and was shot at - but it was the explosion that topped them.

Apparently, they're awaiting identification.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Motive?

Well, if he's white, it'll be mental illness.

Darker skin? Anything from criminal to terrorist, according to the western media in general (UK, France, not just the US)


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 13:26:43


Post by: jmurph


24 year old white guy so obviously mental illness. Not like he was some terrorist refusing to kneel for the anthem. (/sarc)

Also interesting is that the two black victims seem to be linked together through ties to a prominent black church. A third victim seems to have been carrying a package and not the intended target, and the Schertz detonation does not seem to be an intentional target either. The tripwire bomb was set up in a more affluent neighborhood by a For Sale sign.

Interested to see what details emerge on him. Won't be shocked if he has conflicting views that don't fit easily into either side of the political spectrum and so get used as ammunition by both.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 13:57:04


Post by: Tannhauser42


I was thinking to myself that I wish all these bombers and shooters could get a new punishment: anonymity. They all basically get free immortality from the media talking about them, books published about them, cable documentaries and them, etc. If they're just referred to as Bomber #00051A, and their name and picture is never shown again, maybe that will remove some of the motivation for why people do these things.
It's just a random thought, not feasible at all, I know.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 13:57:30


Post by: djones520


 jmurph wrote:
24 year old white guy so obviously mental illness. Not like he was some terrorist refusing to kneel for the anthem. (/sarc)

Also interesting is that the two black victims seem to be linked together through ties to a prominent black church. A third victim seems to have been carrying a package and not the intended target, and the Schertz detonation does not seem to be an intentional target either. The tripwire bomb was set up in a more affluent neighborhood by a For Sale sign.

Interested to see what details emerge on him. Won't be shocked if he has conflicting views that don't fit easily into either side of the political spectrum and so get used as ammunition by both.


That's typically the case with these people. They're just nutbags.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 15:33:46


Post by: nels1031


Bomber ID'd.

AUSTIN — The suspected serial bomber whose deadly packages terrified Austin for almost three weeks before he blew himself up as law enforcement closed in was identified Wednesday as Mark Anthony Conditt.A federal law enforcement official described Conditt as 23 or 24 years old from a community north of Austin.

Earlier, Austin Police Chief Brian Manley said only that the suspect was a white man who authorities flipped from "person of interest" to suspect hours before his death.

Victor Gonzales, the mayor of Pflugerville, said Conditt lived about two blocks from him in this city about 20 miles north of Austin. Troopers from the Texas Department of Public Safety and agents with the ATF cordoned off several blocks in the neighborhood where Conditt had lived.

Conditt was home-schooled before receiving a degree from Austin Community College’s Northridge Campus, the Austin American-Statesman reported. He had worked at Crux Semiconductor in Austin and previously as a computer repair technician, the media outlet reported.


Fralen Allen, who works near Conditt's home, was stunned that the quiet community would be a crime scene.

“I’m sickened,” she said. “Surely in hindsight someone must have known and maybe this could have been prevented.”

Danene Conditt, who identifies herself on Facebook as Mark Conditt's mother, posted a photo of the suspect in February 2013.

"I officially graduated Mark from High School on Friday," the post reads. "1 down, 3 to go. He has 30 hrs of college credit too, but he's thinking of taking some time to figure out what he wants to do....maybe a mission trip. Thanks to everyone for your support over the years."

Authorities were aided in the identity of the suspect by reviewing surveillance video at the FedEx drop-off location north of San Antonio where the suspect was allegedly seen entering with a package. Investigators were able to pull multiple images from the surveillance video and were able to track him to a hotel parking lot near Austin by monitoring his cell phone activity, the official said.

Authorities also obtained information from Google and from the suspect's computer history that confirmed the bomber was looking at information on where to ship devices, the TV station reported, citing law enforcement sources., KVUE-TV in Austin reported.

“The biggest mistake the guy made was going to FedEx,” the official told USA TODAY.

Authorities identified the suspect at approximately 9 p.m. Tuesday, WFAA-TV reported. Police determined the car he was driving and found it at a hotel in Round Rock, about 20 miles north of Austin. A SWAT team was assembled and more firepower was on the way when the suspect attempted to flee, Manley said.

The suspect's vehicle ran into a ditch moments before the explosion that apparently took the bomber's life.

Four exploding packages in Austin since March 2 killed two people and injured at least four more. Another blast at a FedEx distribution center near San Antonio on Monday slightly injured one person.

Fred Milanowski, agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms’ Houston Field Division, said investigators believe all the bombs were built by the same person. Manley said they believe the dead suspect is that person.

"BIG NEWS," tweeted Gov. Greg Abbott. "The Austin Bomber is dead. More work needs to be done to ensure no more bombs had been sent before he died. ... Congratulations to the combined law enforcement effort."

The death also drew a Twitter response from President Trump: "AUSTIN BOMBING SUSPECT IS DEAD. Great job by law enforcement and all concerned!"



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I was thinking to myself that I wish all these bombers and shooters could get a new punishment: anonymity. They all basically get free immortality from the media talking about them, books published about them, cable documentaries and them, etc. If they're just referred to as Bomber #00051A, and their name and picture is never shown again, maybe that will remove some of the motivation for why people do these things.

It's just a random thought, not feasible at all, I know.


I tend to disagree.

I think the more the public knows, the better these situations can be combated and prevented.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 15:43:12


Post by: Kanluwen


 djones520 wrote:
 jmurph wrote:
24 year old white guy so obviously mental illness. Not like he was some terrorist refusing to kneel for the anthem. (/sarc)

Also interesting is that the two black victims seem to be linked together through ties to a prominent black church. A third victim seems to have been carrying a package and not the intended target, and the Schertz detonation does not seem to be an intentional target either. The tripwire bomb was set up in a more affluent neighborhood by a For Sale sign.

Interested to see what details emerge on him. Won't be shocked if he has conflicting views that don't fit easily into either side of the political spectrum and so get used as ammunition by both.


That's typically the case with these people. They're just nutbags.

They get labeled as "nutbags" when people choose to ignore elements of the crime, certainly.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 15:48:53


Post by: sebster


 djones520 wrote:
That's typically the case with these people. They're just nutbags.


They can be both nutbags and terrorists. In fact I can't think of a person we've ever designated a terrorist who wasn't always pretty nuts. We never hesitated in calling Kaczynski McVeigh terrorists, and they were both off their rockers.

Something changed though, post 9-11. Terrorist became a word we are now reluctant to apply outside of Muslims. I don't think this is a big racist thing or anything like that, but it is driven by some pretty weird politics that to be honest I haven't really gotten my head around.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 15:55:22


Post by: Captain Joystick


 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I was thinking to myself that I wish all these bombers and shooters could get a new punishment: anonymity. They all basically get free immortality from the media talking about them, books published about them, cable documentaries and them, etc. If they're just referred to as Bomber #00051A, and their name and picture is never shown again, maybe that will remove some of the motivation for why people do these things.
It's just a random thought, not feasible at all, I know.


This isn't a new punishment. The Romans called it damnatio memoriae, the erasure of the punished person from history.

They instituted it after Herostratus tried to earn noteriety by burning down the Temple of Artemis, they thought that ensuring no one would ever know his name was both a fate worse than death, befitting the heinousness of his crime, and sufficiently poetic.

As for how effective it is, consider that 2500 years later we still know his name, and even have a name for his motive: herostratic fame.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 15:57:47


Post by: sebster


 nels1031 wrote:
I tend to disagree.

I think the more the public knows, the better these situations can be combated and prevented.


I agree that there is information that needs to be relayed to the public, not just to counter this but also as a basic service - people deserve to know how and why this man terrorised them. However, Tannhauser42 has a strong point = the worst thing about Columbine, and perhaps a big reason for the steady stream of school shootings since then, is the bizarrely sympathetic myths that were told in the media afterwards. That the boys were bullied, lashing back. It wasn't slightly true, and even if it was it was still wildly inappropriate - that sympathy and the subsequent immortality would have been seen by other disaffected kids.

There is something of a middle ground, where we learn about the whys and hows of these attack, without building a narrative that might give the murderer any sympathy.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 15:59:48


Post by: Kanluwen


 sebster wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
That's typically the case with these people. They're just nutbags.


They can be both nutbags and terrorists. In fact I can't think of a person we've ever designated a terrorist who wasn't always pretty nuts. We never hesitated in calling Kaczynski McVeigh terrorists, and they were both off their rockers.

Something changed though, post 9-11. Terrorist became a word we are now reluctant to apply outside of Muslims. I don't think this is a big racist thing or anything like that, but it is driven by some pretty weird politics that to be honest I haven't really gotten my head around.

"Terrorist" is a word that gets used to apply to someone whose politics or beliefs are disagreed with by a certain group.
"Lone wolf" and other terms like that are used primarily when a certain group wants to avoid being linked to it and when others try to discuss the issue at hand with said group without wrecking the discussion into weird off-topic tangents and "Stop blaming me for X!".

I'd argue that race does play a part in it, at least in my experience. That these actions were not referred to as terrorism is disgusting to me and makes me wonder just how quickly the bomber was identified but the identity withheld.

 sebster wrote:
 nels1031 wrote:
I tend to disagree.

I think the more the public knows, the better these situations can be combated and prevented.

I agree that there is information that needs to be relayed to the public, not just to counter this but also as a basic service - people deserve to know how and why this man terrorised them. However, Tannhauser42 has a strong point = the worst thing about Columbine, and perhaps a big reason for the steady stream of school shootings since then, is the bizarrely sympathetic myths that were told in the media afterwards. That the boys were bullied, lashing back. It wasn't slightly true, and even if it was it was still wildly inappropriate - that sympathy and the subsequent immortality would have been seen by other disaffected kids.

There is something of a middle ground, where we learn about the whys and hows of these attack, without building a narrative that might give the murderer any sympathy.

That's been the biggest thing frustrating me of late. We saw this during the whole walkouts last week, where there was an attempt to 'hijack' it with a "Walk Up" movement--the idea being that if you went and talked to the weird kids that nobody talks to or that are constantly bullied it suddenly was going to be okay or that kid wasn't going to shoot up the school?

There's definitely something to be said for 'erasing' the fame and mythos surrounding these shooters whenever the events happen, but I do believe that we should look at these events and go from there.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 16:22:18


Post by: djones520


 sebster wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
That's typically the case with these people. They're just nutbags.


They can be both nutbags and terrorists. In fact I can't think of a person we've ever designated a terrorist who wasn't always pretty nuts. We never hesitated in calling Kaczynski McVeigh terrorists, and they were both off their rockers.

Something changed though, post 9-11. Terrorist became a word we are now reluctant to apply outside of Muslims. I don't think this is a big racist thing or anything like that, but it is driven by some pretty weird politics that to be honest I haven't really gotten my head around.


Well, it depends on what he was trying to accomplish. Did he have an political agenda? Or was he just trying to kill the Lizardmen?

I for one do not just ascribe terrorism to Islamists. Yes, I've spent my whole adult life in the fight against Islamic terrorists, but they're hardly the only ones. Hell, according to my government, I'm a threat for being one (white, male, veteran), or will be in a few years.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 16:40:47


Post by: nels1031


 sebster wrote:
We never hesitated in calling Kaczynski McVeigh terrorists, and they were both off their rockers.


But only one of those two were charge and punished by the federal government for terrorism. Ergo, by legalistic standards, only one is a terrorist.

 sebster wrote:
Something changed though, post 9-11. Terrorist became a word we are now reluctant to apply outside of Muslims. I don't think this is a big racist thing or anything like that, but it is driven by some pretty weird politics that to be honest I haven't really gotten my head around.


Disagree. Its usually the legal complexities of the definition of terrorism.

Case in point is the Ft. Hood shooter. A dude, muslim in this case, was in direct contact with a known and wanted terrorist, (a high ranking member of a group who use violent means to attempt to coerce governments to adhere to their demands) and committed a mass shooting that killed the better part of two dozen citizens. But because the shooter fell under the provisions of the UCMJ he wasn't charged with terrorism. There was much chagrin directed at the Obama administration about it, but that's just the nature of the respective legal system.

I don't think its religious or race based at all, but solely about the complexities of the legal hassles of terrorism charges.

edit: work is about to close, snowing here in Maryland, out for a bit.






Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 16:42:20


Post by: Kanluwen


 djones520 wrote:
 sebster wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
That's typically the case with these people. They're just nutbags.


They can be both nutbags and terrorists. In fact I can't think of a person we've ever designated a terrorist who wasn't always pretty nuts. We never hesitated in calling Kaczynski McVeigh terrorists, and they were both off their rockers.

Something changed though, post 9-11. Terrorist became a word we are now reluctant to apply outside of Muslims. I don't think this is a big racist thing or anything like that, but it is driven by some pretty weird politics that to be honest I haven't really gotten my head around.


Well, it depends on what he was trying to accomplish. Did he have an political agenda? Or was he just trying to kill the Lizardmen?

Domestic terrorism, as defined by the FBI, doesn't require a "political agenda".

There's some speculation right now that he was radicalized via one of 'the big three' right now when it comes to radicalized white males(Reddit, Facebook, Youtube). There's some speculation that his parents were heavily involved in an organization called "AmWay" with ties to now Secretary of Education DeVos and her husband and which has been accused of promoting Dominionist beliefs.


I for one do not just ascribe terrorism to Islamists. Yes, I've spent my whole adult life in the fight against Islamic terrorists, but they're hardly the only ones. Hell, according to my government, I'm a threat for being one (white, male, veteran), or will be in a few years.

That's a bit disingenuous. The FBI sees you as being at risk of radicalization/disillusionment. I personally don't feel like we, as a country, have done enough to prevent white supremacist groups(the ones that you theoretically would be at risk of being radicalized by) from being able to exist and hell, even thrive. It's been a concern for the FBI since the 1980s at least but it's one of those subjects where it gets just kind of...swept aside.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 16:50:41


Post by: whembly


Possibly how he got caught...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/austin-bombings-suspect-believed-neutralized-sources-n858576
...
“Exotic” batteries ordered online helped lead authorities to the Austin, Texas, bombing suspect before he died early Wednesday as police closed in, multiple senior law enforcement officials told NBC News…

The unusual batteries were the signature trait that allowed investigators to so quickly link the various explosives to Conditt...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:

There's some speculation right now that he was radicalized via one of 'the big three' right now when it comes to radicalized white males(Reddit, Facebook, Youtube). There's some speculation that his parents were heavily involved in an organization called "AmWay" with ties to now Secretary of Education DeVos and her husband and which has been accused of promoting Dominionist beliefs.


...so wait... are we, or are we not supposed to speculate on these events?


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 16:55:21


Post by: Desubot


How exotic could those batteries have been?



Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 16:56:54


Post by: djones520


 Desubot wrote:
How exotic could those batteries have been?



Well if it's a type that only one manufacturer makes, it narrows down the search quite a bit. They can track what stores sell them, and go from there, or examine online orders. Find people that fit other aspects they were looking at, such as receipts for the FedEx facility the bomb went off at.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 17:00:34


Post by: jhe90


 djones520 wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
How exotic could those batteries have been?



Well if it's a type that only one manufacturer makes, it narrows down the search quite a bit. They can track what stores sell them, and go from there, or examine online orders. Find people that fit other aspects they were looking at, such as receipts for the FedEx facility the bomb went off at.


Serial numbers too...

batch codes and other details. this can help narrow stuff down.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 17:05:10


Post by: Kanluwen


 djones520 wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
How exotic could those batteries have been?



Well if it's a type that only one manufacturer makes, it narrows down the search quite a bit. They can track what stores sell them, and go from there, or examine online orders. Find people that fit other aspects they were looking at, such as receipts for the FedEx facility the bomb went off at.

More than that, it can also be just something out of the ordinary(i.e. a marine battery when the person doesn't own a boat or live near water) now that they know what they're looking for.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 17:08:38


Post by: Desubot


 Kanluwen wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
How exotic could those batteries have been?



Well if it's a type that only one manufacturer makes, it narrows down the search quite a bit. They can track what stores sell them, and go from there, or examine online orders. Find people that fit other aspects they were looking at, such as receipts for the FedEx facility the bomb went off at.

More than that, it can also be just something out of the ordinary(i.e. a marine battery when the person doesn't own a boat or live near water) now that they know what they're looking for.


Well was more thinking along the lines of why he would need some unusual batteries in the first place.

i guess he might of been using them as ingredients instead of as is for the device it self.



Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 17:18:32


Post by: daedalus


 Desubot wrote:

Well was more thinking along the lines of why he would need some unusual batteries in the first place.

i guess he might of been using them as ingredients instead of as is for the device it self.



Depends on the type of battery. Put enough potential energy into something and then destabilize it and you can do nasty things. A small and unintended version of this were the Samsung devices that were catching fire in people's pockets.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 17:47:41


Post by: Tannhauser42


 sebster wrote:
 nels1031 wrote:
I tend to disagree.

I think the more the public knows, the better these situations can be combated and prevented.


I agree that there is information that needs to be relayed to the public, not just to counter this but also as a basic service - people deserve to know how and why this man terrorised them. However, Tannhauser42 has a strong point = the worst thing about Columbine, and perhaps a big reason for the steady stream of school shootings since then, is the bizarrely sympathetic myths that were told in the media afterwards. That the boys were bullied, lashing back. It wasn't slightly true, and even if it was it was still wildly inappropriate - that sympathy and the subsequent immortality would have been seen by other disaffected kids.

There is something of a middle ground, where we learn about the whys and hows of these attack, without building a narrative that might give the murderer any sympathy.


Thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make and expressing it more fully. Of course we should know and understand how and why people do these things, but we don't need to immortalize these killers in the process.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 18:28:25


Post by: Grey Templar


Indeed. These people need to be vilified, not humanized.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 18:31:46


Post by: Kanluwen


 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. These people need to be vilified, not humanized.

On the contrary, humanization goes a long way towards actually understanding the issues at play when dealing with terrorism(which is what this was).
Look at the "Us vs Them" mentality surrounding Islam.

Now, if you want to argue we've tried too hard trying to "humanize" white supremacists and their ilk? I'll agree with that. Signs are starting to come up that this individual targeted Austin because it is known as a more "liberal" area of Texas.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 18:35:50


Post by: Grey Templar


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. These people need to be vilified, not humanized.

On the contrary, humanization goes a long way towards actually understanding the issues at play when dealing with terrorism(which is what this was).
Look at the "Us vs Them" mentality surrounding Islam.

Now, if you want to argue we've tried too hard trying to "humanize" white supremacists and their ilk? I'll agree with that. Signs are starting to come up that this individual targeted Austin because it is known as a more "liberal" area of Texas.


Sure, behind closed doors and while talking about ways to stop it. But the general discussion in the media shouldnt go anywhere near humanizing killers like this. So as to prevent the copycat effect. And this should apply to all types of terror events, regardless of the perpetrators motivation.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 18:48:50


Post by: Desubot


 Grey Templar wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. These people need to be vilified, not humanized.

On the contrary, humanization goes a long way towards actually understanding the issues at play when dealing with terrorism(which is what this was).
Look at the "Us vs Them" mentality surrounding Islam.

Now, if you want to argue we've tried too hard trying to "humanize" white supremacists and their ilk? I'll agree with that. Signs are starting to come up that this individual targeted Austin because it is known as a more "liberal" area of Texas.


Sure, behind closed doors and while talking about ways to stop it. But the general discussion in the media shouldnt go anywhere near humanizing killers like this. So as to prevent the copycat effect. And this should apply to all types of terror events, regardless of the perpetrators motivation.


The news probably should be talking about what happened, not why it happened, who happened or how you should feel about it.

but then again media today is all about getting the views and nothing gets people riled up more than the word terrorism or politics.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 18:49:30


Post by: Kanluwen


 Grey Templar wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. These people need to be vilified, not humanized.

On the contrary, humanization goes a long way towards actually understanding the issues at play when dealing with terrorism(which is what this was).
Look at the "Us vs Them" mentality surrounding Islam.

Now, if you want to argue we've tried too hard trying to "humanize" white supremacists and their ilk? I'll agree with that. Signs are starting to come up that this individual targeted Austin because it is known as a more "liberal" area of Texas.


Sure, behind closed doors and while talking about ways to stop it. But the general discussion in the media shouldnt go anywhere near humanizing killers like this. So as to prevent the copycat effect. And this should apply to all types of terror events, regardless of the perpetrators motivation.

But there's the rub. It should...but it's not. Christ, a guy local to me was arrested for making threats to an officer and threatening to detonate bombs in a mobile trailer park...and they post old mugshots of him.

This guy in Austin literally acted in the way that terrorists act and we're seeing nothing but old photos of him smiling on a couch.

You want a way to "discourage" this kind of stuff? To "dehumanize" the actors in this way?
Show the corpse. Show his body after he felt cowardly enough to end himself rather than be taken alive by police to face the consequences of his action.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Desubot wrote:

The news probably should be talking about what happened, not why it happened, who happened or how you should feel about it.

Strictly speaking, the news should be discussing news. The why and how are important, same as the what.

"How you should feel about it" is just that: how you should feel about it. They can't really tell you that.
but then again media today is all about getting the views and nothing gets people riled up more than the word terrorism or politics.

The issue here is that there's a double standard with regards to the word "terrorism". There are people trying to argue it's for legal purposes("it's harder to prove terrorism charges" and things of that nature), but that boat just doesn't float.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 19:43:48


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


To avoid humanising, we need to stop the lop sided reporting.

As covered, if you’re white and you start planting bombs, or shoot up a school or church, it’s your mental illness.

Any other colour, and it’s your religion, or your ‘hood, or just plain old racism that makes the headlines.

Both are dangerous approaches. The former prevents a meaningful dialogue on the root cause (mental illness is a reason, not an excuse). The latter simply scapegoats - and can add to a feeling of alienation in which extremism and terrorism can take root.

Consider what young Muslim men have now grown up being told. September 11th was 17 years ago this year. And since then, irresponsible voices have maintained ‘it’s the religion. It’s inherent. It’s unavoidable. They’re all sleeper agents. You can’t trust Them’.

An entire faith has been demonised because of the acts of a literal handful (look up informed estimates as to the number of Islamist Extremists in the world. You’re talking a tiny, tiny fraction of 1% of all Muslims. Like 0.0004, give or take a zero).

Young men can be angry. Our world is pretty much a factory for mental health strains. And when a young Muslim man has been demonised his entire life, subjected to entirely unwarranted distrust? There’s an ‘in’ for the poison of the Islamist Extremist.

That’s not, and will never be, to absolve those that fall for it of their crimes. But an honest analysis in the wider media, free from sensationalism would go some way to reducing that cause.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 23:02:03


Post by: Disciple of Fate


From what media have lifted from his life so far the guy sounded like an absolute delight...


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/21 23:25:32


Post by: TheAuldGrump





The Auld Grump


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 00:16:17


Post by: oldravenman3025


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To avoid humanising, we need to stop the lop sided reporting.

As covered, if you’re white and you start planting bombs, or shoot up a school or church, it’s your mental illness.

Any other colour, and it’s your religion, or your ‘hood, or just plain old racism that makes the headlines.

Both are dangerous approaches. The former prevents a meaningful dialogue on the root cause (mental illness is a reason, not an excuse). The latter simply scapegoats - and can add to a feeling of alienation in which extremism and terrorism can take root.

Consider what young Muslim men have now grown up being told. September 11th was 17 years ago this year. And since then, irresponsible voices have maintained ‘it’s the religion. It’s inherent. It’s unavoidable. They’re all sleeper agents. You can’t trust Them’.

An entire faith has been demonised because of the acts of a literal handful (look up informed estimates as to the number of Islamist Extremists in the world. You’re talking a tiny, tiny fraction of 1% of all Muslims. Like 0.0004, give or take a zero).

Young men can be angry. Our world is pretty much a factory for mental health strains. And when a young Muslim man has been demonised his entire life, subjected to entirely unwarranted distrust? There’s an ‘in’ for the poison of the Islamist Extremist.

That’s not, and will never be, to absolve those that fall for it of their crimes. But an honest analysis in the wider media, free from sensationalism would go some way to reducing that cause.





In today's "climate", a white offender is more likely to be painted as a "right wing extremist" by the media cartels than mentally ill.


The left-leaning clickbait sites, like TMZ (who probably found out by lurking /pol/), have already tried to spin this into him being a "right-wing extremist" by publicizing a school blog from six years ago (2012). In the aforementioned blog, he expressed politically incorrect opinions on abortion, homosexuality, and sex offenders. While they would offend some, they were not violent or radical by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it was in line with mainstream conservatism.


Somebody on /pol/ managed to screencap the guy's Farcebook profile before it got Zucc'd. He had a few friends, and they were a mixed bag in terms of race and ethicity, and were clean cut looking kids. Also, he was bragging on Reddit the whole time the cops were looking for him (probably why the law was able to keep track of his cell phone on a near continuous basis during the hunt). None of his comments that I've read were political in nature. It was more along the lines of another misanthrope sick of his life and pissed off at the world.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 00:33:16


Post by: Frazzled


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To avoid humanising, we need to stop the lop sided reporting.

As covered, if you’re white and you start planting bombs, or shoot up a school or church, it’s your mental illness.

Any other colour, and it’s your religion, or your ‘hood, or just plain old racism that makes the headlines.

Both are dangerous approaches. The former prevents a meaningful dialogue on the root cause (mental illness is a reason, not an excuse). The latter simply scapegoats - and can add to a feeling of alienation in which extremism and terrorism can take root.

Consider what young Muslim men have now grown up being told. September 11th was 17 years ago this year. And since then, irresponsible voices have maintained ‘it’s the religion. It’s inherent. It’s unavoidable. They’re all sleeper agents. You can’t trust Them’.

An entire faith has been demonised because of the acts of a literal handful (look up informed estimates as to the number of Islamist Extremists in the world. You’re talking a tiny, tiny fraction of 1% of all Muslims. Like 0.0004, give or take a zero).

Young men can be angry. Our world is pretty much a factory for mental health strains. And when a young Muslim man has been demonised his entire life, subjected to entirely unwarranted distrust? There’s an ‘in’ for the poison of the Islamist Extremist.

That’s not, and will never be, to absolve those that fall for it of their crimes. But an honest analysis in the wider media, free from sensationalism would go some way to reducing that cause.


Jeez do we have to go there?


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 00:53:26


Post by: Kanluwen


 Frazzled wrote:

Jeez do we have to go there?

Honestly? Yeah, we kinda do.

Language is important in a society. The usage of language is what can or cannot potentially affect discussions and influence the way people think of things. It's why there are people who object to news outlets describing African-American police shooting victims as "thugs" when there's no evidence to suggest any kind of gang affiliations or things of that nature. It's a loaded term used to imply certain things without outright saying it.

This particular individual was a terrorist, plain and simple. He apparently left a 25 minute message on his cell phone(likely a manifesto--dollars to donuts he'll rail against Austin being a "safe space" or promoting homosexuality or some other ridiculous nonsense) for the police.
By referring to him as "mentally ill" or "a troubled youth"...it implies that he was not in control of his actions, that he was somehow led to this behavior by outside forces.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 03:26:05


Post by: sebster


 Kanluwen wrote:
That's been the biggest thing frustrating me of late. We saw this during the whole walkouts last week, where there was an attempt to 'hijack' it with a "Walk Up" movement--the idea being that if you went and talked to the weird kids that nobody talks to or that are constantly bullied it suddenly was going to be okay or that kid wasn't going to shoot up the school?


Yep, I think there's almost a naivety in that kind of approach. Thing is, a lot of young men are just pretty angry dudes. And it often isn't really about any particular thing, its just a base emotional level. Being nice to them in the school hall doesn't change that anger.

That doesn't mean there's nothing we can do, but just being nice to weird kids is not part of the solution.

There's definitely something to be said for 'erasing' the fame and mythos surrounding these shooters whenever the events happen, but I do believe that we should look at these events and go from there.


Agreed.

 nels1031 wrote:
But only one of those two were charge and punished by the federal government for terrorism. Ergo, by legalistic standards, only one is a terrorist.


No, it doesn't work like that. The law won't convict a person of serial killing, it will convict them of 4 counts of murder. A mob boss isn't convicted of 'mob bossing', he's convicted of conspiracy and racketeering. But we still call them serial killers and mob bosses, because those are terms used to describe the person and their motivations, not the exact breaches of the law they will end up being convicted of.

Same with terrorists, when they use random acts of violence against the general population in service of some kind of worldview, that's terrorism.

Unless its post 9-11 and the attacker is white, then it gets a bit strange.

Disagree. Its usually the legal complexities of the definition of terrorism.


How a person is described in society in general has little to do with the exact list of crimes the person is charged with. You kill a man in a bar fight and in a lot of jurisdictions you'll end up being charged with 'manslaughter'. That's just how the law is defined in many places - any killing that has intent but no pre-meditation is called manslaughter. It'll still get you 10+ years.

But even after the charges are laid, we wouldn't start describing you as a manslaughterer, you'd still be referred to by all and sundry as a murderer.

Case in point is the Ft. Hood shooter.


People called him a terrorist, and rightly so. When the charges were filed it didn't change how he was described by the general public and officials, they kept calling him a terrorist.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 03:31:14


Post by: Grey Templar


So it seems the cell phone recording doesn’t have any real reasoning for the attacks. Just rambling about what he did, but nothing as to why. No manifesto, no nothing.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 03:32:25


Post by: sebster


 Desubot wrote:
The news probably should be talking about what happened, not why it happened, who happened or how you should feel about it.


There is most definitely a place in the news for discussing why something happened. That's a pretty major part of long form and investigative reporting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To avoid humanising, we need to stop the lop sided reporting.

As covered, if you’re white and you start planting bombs, or shoot up a school or church, it’s your mental illness.

Any other colour, and it’s your religion, or your ‘hood, or just plain old racism that makes the headlines.





A white guy murders people with bombs and we start looking for reasons why. A black guy is murdered and we start looking for stuff to trash his reputation.

Now, I'm not saying this shows any kind of overt racism from any particular person involved. But there's a pattern to how these things play out - and its pretty fething ugly.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 05:08:08


Post by: oldravenman3025


 sebster wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
The news probably should be talking about what happened, not why it happened, who happened or how you should feel about it.


There is most definitely a place in the news for discussing why something happened. That's a pretty major part of long form and investigative reporting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To avoid humanising, we need to stop the lop sided reporting.

As covered, if you’re white and you start planting bombs, or shoot up a school or church, it’s your mental illness.

Any other colour, and it’s your religion, or your ‘hood, or just plain old racism that makes the headlines.





A white guy murders people with bombs and we start looking for reasons why. A black guy is murdered and we start looking for stuff to trash his reputation.

Now, I'm not saying this shows any kind of overt racism from any particular person involved. But there's a pattern to how these things play out - and its pretty fething ugly.





The difference is that there was a media blitz that attempted to paint Trayvon Martin as a sweet little angel murdered by an evil white racist thug (never mind the fact that Zimmerman was half-hispanic), and Zimmerman's ass was on the line. It was necessary to dig up the facts that Trayvon Martin was a troubled, delinquent kid well on the road to a very bad place before his death. Nobody trashed Martin's reputation. He was doing a good job of that himself. It was a matter of the so-called "news" media, and Old Media shills like Nancy Grace and Piers "Jeremy Clarkson Kicked My Ass" Morgan, were playing the part of judge and jury in the media court of public opinion. They weren't interested in being unbiased or presenting both sides of the incident in clear manner.


On the other hand, this flying rodent gak crazy Unabomber wannabe is a big unknown. People merely assume that to go around setting off bombs, with no clear motive as of yet, and posting on Reddit about it via a cell phone, is off their rocker. And it's a pretty safe assumption to make until facts prove otherwise. Attempts to paint this is a racial light when it comes to the reporting, with the comparison between the two incidents, is being disingenuous at best.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 05:28:28


Post by: Peregrine


 oldravenman3025 wrote:
It was necessary to dig up the facts that Trayvon Martin was a troubled, delinquent kid well on the road to a very bad place before his death.


Too bad that was never demonstrated.

On the other hand, this flying rodent gak crazy Unabomber wannabe is a big unknown. People merely assume that to go around setting off bombs, with no clear motive as of yet, and posting on Reddit about it via a cell phone, is off their rocker. And it's a pretty safe assumption to make until facts prove otherwise. Attempts to paint this is a racial light when it comes to the reporting, with the comparison between the two incidents, is being disingenuous at best.


And yet, when the suspect is not a white guy people don't hesitate to jump to conclusions about how it must be something more than "just a crazy person being crazy". If it's a Muslim-looking person it's immediately labeled "terrorism" and everyone starts looking for connections to Islamic extremism, talking about how we need more restrictions on immigration, etc. That's the racism issue, the double standard on when we assume motives beyond "crazy".


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 06:11:01


Post by: daedalus


 Peregrine wrote:

And yet, when the suspect is not a white guy people don't hesitate to jump to conclusions about how it must be something more than "just a crazy person being crazy". If it's a Muslim-looking person it's immediately labeled "terrorism" and everyone starts looking for connections to Islamic extremism, talking about how we need more restrictions on immigration, etc. That's the racism issue, the double standard on when we assume motives beyond "crazy".


I'm just as okay with starting dialogue about restrictions on immigration in this situation as I would be if he was "Muslim-looking".


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 08:37:06


Post by: tneva82


 sebster wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
That's typically the case with these people. They're just nutbags.


They can be both nutbags and terrorists. In fact I can't think of a person we've ever designated a terrorist who wasn't always pretty nuts. We never hesitated in calling Kaczynski McVeigh terrorists, and they were both off their rockers.

Something changed though, post 9-11. Terrorist became a word we are now reluctant to apply outside of Muslims. I don't think this is a big racist thing or anything like that, but it is driven by some pretty weird politics that to be honest I haven't really gotten my head around.


Yeah. In Finland there was school shooting in last decade. Guy put up tons of videos about his political views and how he was doing this to force change in finnish politics. Well let's see. Fairly common definition I see in terrorism is: "Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror among masses of people to achieve a financial, political, religious or ideological aim."

So let's see...How come that incident wasn't classified as terrorism? But rather as case of mental illness.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 09:25:55


Post by: sebster


 oldravenman3025 wrote:
The difference is that there was a media blitz that attempted to paint Trayvon Martin as a sweet little angel murdered by an evil white racist thug (never mind the fact that Zimmerman was half-hispanic), and Zimmerman's ass was on the line. It was necessary to dig up the facts that Trayvon Martin was a troubled, delinquent kid well on the road to a very bad place before his death. Nobody trashed Martin's reputation. He was doing a good job of that himself. It was a matter of the so-called "news" media, and Old Media shills like Nancy Grace and Piers "Jeremy Clarkson Kicked My Ass" Morgan, were playing the part of judge and jury in the media court of public opinion. They weren't interested in being unbiased or presenting both sides of the incident in clear manner.

On the other hand, this flying rodent gak crazy Unabomber wannabe is a big unknown. People merely assume that to go around setting off bombs, with no clear motive as of yet, and posting on Reddit about it via a cell phone, is off their rocker. And it's a pretty safe assumption to make until facts prove otherwise. Attempts to paint this is a racial light when it comes to the reporting, with the comparison between the two incidents, is being disingenuous at best.


You've gotten confused. I've made no comment on the attacker's motive, racial or otherwise. All I've said on the attacker's motives is that people should speculate less (though that was before the attacker was caught and killed).

My comment is only on the media coverage. And in that regard, its quite telling when you say Martin was 'a delinquent kid on the road to a very bad place' is exactly the problem. The kid had been busted for possession and petty theft. It's obviously not what anyone wants their kid to do, but most of my mates smoked weed and couple stole stuff or traded in stolen stuff to pay for their drugs. They're lawyers, engineers and teachers now. Not saying Martin was going to turn out to be an astronaut, but it is telling how some minor stuff helped you create a whole story in your head.

And before you say it, no I am not saying you formed that story because he was black. This isn't about saying anyone is racist. I'm sure you and a lot of other people would have formed the same views on hearing that white shooting victim was involved in crime. The point being that you heard that story, his brushes with crime, and that helped you build your narrative about what happened.

What should then be noted is that we don't see that same pattern happen with other stories. Instead we get very different patterns - in this case for instance from the very beginning the reporting is showing Conditt is being reporting in a positive light.

No-one involved is doing any of it because they are racist. Exactly why it's happening is complex, and honestly I haven't seen a particularly good explanation on why. Your justification here was contrived, and very specific to Martin's circumstances, and ignored that this happens repeatedly.
And whatever the reason, it is impossible to deny its repeated instances produce a racial impact.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 10:50:21


Post by: Ouze


The "He/She Was No Angel" stage of post-incident victim smearing is an essential part of building a narrative.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 23:09:50


Post by: Mario


Ouze wrote:The "He/She Was No Angel" stage of post-incident victim smearing is an essential part of building a narrative.
As is the inverse, the "he was a quite kid, nobody would have thought…" thing for attacks by white dudes.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/22 23:29:15


Post by: Ouze


Nah, I think that's a trope for when they interview neighbors. And if you think about it, what do you expect them to say? "Yeah, he always did seem like a crazy person, and I never reported it"?

Although I suppose with that last shoot shooter (well, this is the US, so like 3 school shooters back now) quite a few people did report it. So it's not a hard and fast rule.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 01:06:56


Post by: Frazzled


 Peregrine wrote:
 oldravenman3025 wrote:
It was necessary to dig up the facts that Trayvon Martin was a troubled, delinquent kid well on the road to a very bad place before his death.


Too bad that was never demonstrated.

On the other hand, this flying rodent gak crazy Unabomber wannabe is a big unknown. People merely assume that to go around setting off bombs, with no clear motive as of yet, and posting on Reddit about it via a cell phone, is off their rocker. And it's a pretty safe assumption to make until facts prove otherwise. Attempts to paint this is a racial light when it comes to the reporting, with the comparison between the two incidents, is being disingenuous at best.


And yet, when the suspect is not a white guy people don't hesitate to jump to conclusions about how it must be something more than "just a crazy person being crazy". If it's a Muslim-looking person it's immediately labeled "terrorism" and everyone starts looking for connections to Islamic extremism, talking about how we need more restrictions on immigration, etc. That's the racism issue, the double standard on when we assume motives beyond "crazy".


Unabomber was a terrorist. Most terrorists are pretty messed up. What's the issue?


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 01:18:20


Post by: whembly


...that we shouldn't call him a terrorist?

Both Unabomber and this dude is a terrorist. Full Stop.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 03:21:36


Post by: Frazzled


 whembly wrote:
...that we shouldn't call him a terrorist?

Both Unabomber and this dude is a terrorist. Full Stop.


Indeed. Being crazy seems almost a requirement to.being a terrorist, at least the terrorists going boom and not running the show.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 06:59:59


Post by: Yodhrin


 Frazzled wrote:
 whembly wrote:
...that we shouldn't call him a terrorist?

Both Unabomber and this dude is a terrorist. Full Stop.


Indeed. Being crazy seems almost a requirement to.being a terrorist, at least the terrorists going boom and not running the show.


Yeah, see, that's the thing though, people are mixing slang terms up with actual medical stuff.

Spree killers, mass shooters, bombers, people who commit murder because someone cut them off in traffic or spilled their drink, all that kind of stuff is "crazy" in the colloquial sense, but a lot of the time those people are not mentally ill. Often they're not cognitively impaired, they don't have a recognised disorder, they're not incapable of moral reasoning in a clinical sense, they're just angry arseholes who lose control, or people caught in loops of faulty ethical logic due to some ideological nonsense.

Actual, genuine, diagnosed mentally ill people are orders of magnitude more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators of it, and the most common thing that a genuine, diagnosed mentally ill person would do if they got hold of a weapon and had an episode is to harm themselves.

Pushing the "that dude just be crazy" angle is troublesome; it others a vulnerable group to make "normal" people feel better by disassociating themselves(nobody normal could do something so horrible, and I'm normal, phew, goes the logic), and it serves as a useful smokescreen to deflect any inconvenient attention from structural social issues or specific corporate interests(which we won't get into here).


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 08:01:09


Post by: jouso


 whembly wrote:
...that we shouldn't call him a terrorist?

Both Unabomber and this dude is a terrorist. Full Stop.






Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 10:51:22


Post by: TheMeanDM


Would be curious to know why he used such exotic and specific batteries....fro. Asia, did I read?....seems to me like he was just wantung to get caught from the get-go using something so unusual.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 14:13:08


Post by: daedalus


 TheMeanDM wrote:
Would be curious to know why he used such exotic and specific batteries....fro. Asia, did I read?....seems to me like he was just wantung to get caught from the get-go using something so unusual.


What makes them exotic and specific?

Far as coming from Asia, that's a lot of batteries, really. I've ordered batteries for electronics projects from places like ebay and they'll show up from China post.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 17:59:36


Post by: TheMeanDM


 daedalus wrote:
 TheMeanDM wrote:
Would be curious to know why he used such exotic and specific batteries....fro. Asia, did I read?....seems to me like he was just wantung to get caught from the get-go using something so unusual.


What makes them exotic and specific?

Far as coming from Asia, that's a lot of batteries, really. I've ordered batteries for electronics projects from places like ebay and they'll show up from China post.


“These weren’t your store-bought Duracells,” a senior law enforcement official told NBC News about the batteries, which came from Asia.

Mark Anthony Conditt reportedly used the “unusual” batteries in the explosives he sent out, which helped investigators track him down.




Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 18:17:25


Post by: feeder


I suspect his bomb recipe called for a specific battery as one of the ingredients, and he just went with it.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 18:24:39


Post by: daedalus


That's still not helping much.

Was it this:
https://www.ebay.com/i/322543766236?chn=ps&dispItem=1

Or was it this:
https://www.bonanza.com/listings/12V-200AH-2220W-li-ion-Lithium-Battery-Pack-Energy-Storage-11-1V-LFP-deep-cycle/489142825?goog_pla=1&gpid=76984044061&keyword=&goog_pla=1&pos=1o1&ad_type=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy9LVBRDOARIsAGqoVnv7j9VeWmvWe8qkmtvtKV5pVmJKM10s7Zerh85nzCTNiNjc6XI1EjkaAjvTEALw_wcB

Even laptop batteries blow up for almost, like, no reason sometimes.




Obviously, we'll never really find out, and knowing law enforcement and the media, they probably wouldn't even be able to communicate it to us if they wanted to. I can't help but remain forever curious though.

Looking closer at it, I HAD that model laptop for work for several years. Kinda gives you a certain amount of pause when you've got the thing strapped to your back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'm assuming that the battery was part of the payload, it might not have been, but then there would be no reason for any special type of battery.


Automatically Appended Next Post:



About 3:30 is the good parts if you don't want to hear what he's doing to cause it.

Seriously. Now picture the manufacturing process being cheap enough that you can sell those for a couple bucks at the gas station. I'm continually amazed that more people don't get hurt from those unintentionally even.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 20:46:50


Post by: d-usa


I'm guessing a quick trip online to buy cheap bulk batteries will get you a delivery from Asia via many websites: amazon, ebay, aliexpress, etc.

Heck, just think about ordering hobby stuff. When I was doing more conversions for 40K it would not be unusual for me to get packages delivered from Asia and Eastern Europe on a pretty regular basis.


Austin Bombings @ 2018/03/23 21:19:04


Post by: daedalus


Yeah, it's just an odd and unnecessarily dramatic way to phrase something.

I guess I'll just chalk it up to "AR15 Shotgun" Syndrome.