For a game of Space Marines vs Death Guard, we need:
- Core Rules - Core Rules FAQ - Designers Commentary - Stepping into a New Edition FAQ
- Chapter Approved - Chapter Approved FAQ
- Big FAQ
- Codex: Space Marines - Codex: Space Marines FAQ
- Codex: Death Guard - Codex: Death Guard FAQ
Anyone else feel like 8th has been one big beta test that we've had to pay for? And even after all that they still haven't fixed several fundamental flaws.
If I were just starting out, I'd simply not bother trying to get into 40k.
I play Tyranids, Necrons and various non-Astartes Imperial stuff, why do I need the Space Marine and Death Guard stuff?
I don't need CA or The Big FAQ because I've used my clearly monumental intellect to memorise the 3 changes they made that are relevant. Same goes for most of the other documents.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
So you'll never pay for any games rules ever?
I was more talking about CA. You buy a game and accept the patches but you don't buy it and then have to pay for every patch...
I might be persuaded or even fooled if it was an expansion pack but it wasn't even that... Most of it was a copy and past form last editions.
I don't know, but it would help a lot if this were the case. I too, find keeping up with all the various changes printed in multiple locations hard at times. Having the E-Book Codexs updated when changes occur, then freely re-downloadable to anyone who bought them would be great.
While they're at it, ship the physical rule books with a free digital copy too for easy access to the same updates.
At this point the codexes are glorified Lore books, since 90% of the rules contained within are invalidated by errata. Might as well just make the codexes actual lore books with pretty pictures and give us the rules as e-books only.
While I'm okay with Erratas and FAQs and think they are a good thing, 8th has been patched to death imo. We need a 8. Editon revised to cut away some of these documents.
Hanskrampf wrote: While I'm okay with Erratas and FAQs and think they are a good thing, 8th has been patched to death imo. We need a 8. Editon revised to cut away some of these documents.
They just need to consolidate everything into a single document, even if it ends up 20 pages long.
BaconCatBug wrote: Anyone else feel like 8th has been one big beta test that we've had to pay for? And even after all that they still haven't fixed several fundamental flaws
It's a pain.
But the alternative was that we remain with the trainwreck that was 7th edition for however many years, followed by the old 'here is your codex for the next two editions, good luck'
Think there’s an element here of wilful determination to find fault, no matter what. It’s perfectly possible to play a game without any of the FAQs, errata etc; there’s nothing fundamentally unplayable about the ruleset as originally published. GW are in a lose/lose situation with some people though – don’t update things and the game’s “broken” and they’re “not engaging with the community; try and address issues as they become apparent, “waaah I have to refer to more than one document”. Don’t like either of these options? Stop playing the game and stop buying GW stuff, and find something to do with your spare time that doesn’t leave you in a perma-sulk.
- Core Rules
- Core Rules FAQ - Designers Commentary
- Stepping into a New Edition FAQ
- Chapter Approved
- Chapter Approved FAQ
- Big FAQ
- Codex: Space Marines
- Codex: Space Marines FAQ
- Codex: Death Guard
- Codex: Death Guard FAQ
Anyone else feel like 8th has been one big beta test that we've had to pay for? And even after all that they still haven't fixed several fundamental flaws.
If I were just starting out, I'd simply not bother trying to get into 40k.
And ta-da...this is what CA will be for in the future - coalescing the rules from the previous months.
- Core Rules
- Core Rules FAQ - Designers Commentary
- Stepping into a New Edition FAQ
- Chapter Approved
- Chapter Approved FAQ
- Big FAQ
- Codex: Space Marines
- Codex: Space Marines FAQ
- Codex: Death Guard
- Codex: Death Guard FAQ
Anyone else feel like 8th has been one big beta test that we've had to pay for? And even after all that they still haven't fixed several fundamental flaws.
If I were just starting out, I'd simply not bother trying to get into 40k.
And ta-da...this is what CA will be for in the future - coalescing the rules from the previous months.
*Should be for. It should be for that.
I do find it very funny though that the edtion that was meant to stream line it requiers me to have the brb the codex, like 3 FAQs and a post from facebook printed out.
Or is it? We don't have more than 1. For all we know they are additional CA's you'll be carrying with just new point cost changes etc which you use in addition to CA2017.
BaconCatBug wrote: At this point the codexes are glorified Lore books, since 90% of the rules contained within are invalidated by errata. Might as well just make the codexes actual lore books with pretty pictures and give us the rules as e-books only.
My codex Errata changed three things, all of them things players had assumed were the case, but just needed confirmation on. That's consistent with most of the codices. Big different between 90% and like 5%.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
If they really wanted a living rules set, though, they'd have gone the route of Infinity; build their own list builder, which is always kept up to date, and post the "rules" documents online for free, so they can be downloaded whenever there's a change, but keep the core lore books something that you purchase if you want that.
You can't do this sort of constant FAQ and "beta testing" when you're talking about paper documents.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
Would you? Do you really want to relive the days of no answers? The majority of the FAQ is QUESTIONS. The point changes are optional, but there is this new fangled thing called battlescribe that exists, crazy I know. I play other game systems that don't have answers, it's annoying. (Looking at you Dropfleet.....)
I hardly ever have a book out when I play, it's there in case I forget something or need to check on a rules conundrum.
As long as most of the documents required are free PDFs, I'm ok with it. It's when you need 4+ $50 books like in 7th that it becomes a problem.
For my Eldar, for example, I only need to buy the Codex and the Main Rules. I've printed out all the relevant FAQs and Erratas and placed them inside those 2 books. I also have all the Autarch pages from the Index cut out a placed in the Codex as well, because I like all the options he has from the Index.
But I still only have to tote around 2 books and I'm ok with that. I do hate that I will never be able to have all the rules for 40K (just way, way too many factions and source material), but at least for the army I have, it isn't so bad.
On a side note, having to keep up with so many FAQs and Erratas and faction releases coming like rapid-fire, is a major reason I have been against a "living" ruleset from the beginning. It certainly has its benefits (like certain OP combos dying quick deaths), but it makes it difficult to keep up with the "meta". As I have kids now, this sort of game has effectively blocked me for even being a competitive player again. But at least I also enjoy being a casual player on the very, very few times I get to go to the LGS and have a game.
Wow how times change I remember when folks complained GW DIDN'T do enough FAQ and clarifications.
Heck this is nothing should have seen 3th ED. You needed not only the books and a FAQ but at least 6 white dwarfs with rules changes. It was like playing magic you throw down a WD with a rules change and someone would throw down a newer issue countering it.
This all gets better in 2018's CA, when a lot of this garbage gets consolidated into that one book. The Spring FAQ was just a stop-gap so that we're not going full calendar years between updates. Needless to say, it will create bloat until that next CA consolidates it.
Also... most of the FAQ sections to not contain massive, sweeping changes, mostly clarifications and tweaks. Things that you can easily live without just by knowing the rules. Simply reference the documents online if anything comes up. All you would really require is the Codex, Big FAQ, BRBFAQ, CA, and CAFAQ, and I still think that is overkill. In November, you go down to needing the Codex and CA.
Also, a lot of the FAQ's are sensible:
"No, units in transports aren't off the battlefield. They're on the battlefield in a transport."
That question literally never occurred to me in all my games of 8th, despite one of my normal opponents playing scions and RG with scouts in landspeeder storms.
Isn't this a side-effect of being serious on the rules?
If you're looking for a fun time, just agree with your friend on something that works. If you go to a tournament, the you're going to have to deal with that matey
This isn’t that different from last edition, when you needed the brb, the codex, this datasheet for detachment X, this supplement book for detachment Y, this other supplement for your nonstandard traits and relics, this codex for your alliies, their supplements and data sheets and then all relevant FAQs.
And if you wanted to add forgeworld, there was even more.
My Iron Warriors list uses 4 books, CSM codex, Forces Of Chaos And Forces Of AM indexes as well as the Imperial Index 2.
But that’s because I like having More bombers and artillery and Dreadnoughts and tanks. There’s nothing stopping me from using IW rules with just the CSM codex.
Last Edition it would have taken bare minimum 1 codex and one supplement to do the same thing, not including any data sheets I might have needed to do what just the CSM codex does now
AaronWilson wrote: Nah... I'm playing a game next tuesday. I'll bring my Astartes codex, rulebook and datacards.
If me and my friend disagree on something, we will hash it out and continue to roll dice.
This is probably what happens in 80% of the games in 40k.
Bingo. I read the FAQ's and what pertains to my army and how it is played, and thats it. I'll keep the FAQ's on my phone, but generally most opponents will take your word on something unless it seems completely unfair and OP (which, honestly, the FAQ's removed a lot of those possibilities)
Where does it say anywhere that the point changes are optional? Points changes in CA and FAQ are official errata. They are completely non-optional changes to the rules, at least for matched play.
From the designers:
"Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?
In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.
In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex."
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
Rules will never be finished. That is just a fact that you, and everyone else, will have to deal with. Fine-tuning, correcting and rebalancing is a never-ending process.
The problem is, that a living ruleset is hard to integrate into GWs publishing business. People will only pay for rules if they come bound in hardback and in glossy paper.
But we should all thank Gork and Mork that we are not stuck back in 7th edition , where gamebreaking stuff like invisibility was left unchanged for years on end.
Just had a thought: Death guard includes some Daemon units, which are also in the Daemon codex. Since the Daemon codex is newer (IIRC), you need that for the latest rules for those units, making 12 documents...
(and is the CSM codex also newer than DG, meaning you should also have it for crossover units?)
Cheeslord wrote: Just had a thought: Death guard includes some Daemon units, which are also in the Daemon codex. Since the Daemon codex is newer (IIRC), you need that for the latest rules for those units, making 12 documents...
(and is the CSM codex also newer than DG, meaning you should also have it for crossover units?)
Nope. You use the rules presented in your codex unless stated otherwise.
Yes, this does make DG Nurglings different from CD Nurglings WRT how they deploy. Was fully expecting that one to be brought in line like they did with Horrors. Not so.
Yeah I don't see the big deal. I didn't buy Chapter Approved and don't need to. I have the FAQ on my phone but could print it out if I chose and keep it with my Rulebook. Otherwise, I have my Rulebook and my Codex. Then of course my data cards.
For my weekly DnD game I haul 6 books, a notebook, a container with chips, markers, and figures, a dice bag, a game mat, DM screen, and whatever snacks I brought.
Welcome to warhammer 40k 7th edition... oh wait, to play at a store in 7th you only “needed” 3 sources total, rulebook, and 2 codex’s. in 8th edition you do need about 7sources and you still would take longer to play, would t finish the game and argue over rules every 30 seconds. You only have tournaments and the power gamers to blame for ruining a perfectly good NARRATIVE game that’s original edition “rogue trader” was based off of dnd, a narrative game.
Yeah I’m a “salty seventh” player, I never played in a tournament and my favourite and best army was orks and I loved them in 7th.
It's quite a bit of documents. Searchable rules with links built in, inline points costs, FAQ, errata, etc on datasheets would be the way to do it.
So you bring your ipad or whatever and you have access to everything in a few clicks, including your opponent's rules. You don't need to ask to see their codex, you can just type in the relevant stratagem/unit/etc and get all the rules, FAQs, and erratas.
Read the first few comments and was meh... Buy a tablet and have all the downloads/keep up to date... Just sounds like whining to me. I have played GW games since the early 90's late 80's I think... and GW have done the same thing every edition until today (no matter what they said)...If not use to it by now ... (GW and ellipses are hand in hand). I have had fun and love the models so I will keep playing. However, if after solid rules, you are in the wrong game. GW has always been about great models, mates, customising rules and having fun.
A. Use battlescribe. Points changes are plugged into there for you. When GW comes out with their own 40k list builder, hopefully it will have matched play point values as well.
B. Actually read the FAQs. You don't have to print it, just read it. See which parts apply to your army. Large chunks of the FAQ often never interact with your army. Most other players do much the same, and when a dispute arises, you consult the wording of the FAQs to resolve it. Most games, these disputes never get to that point.
C. If all else fails and you want to be a certified Rules Lawyer, then take all of the information from each FAQ that's relevant to your army and put it into a word document (with references), print it out, and bring it to your games. Now you have that, and the rulebooks, reducing the number of things you have to bring to your game.
D. Play casual games where people don't sweat if you mess up a rule.
I do think a digital solution is better - and I don't mean ebooks. I mean an actual living-rule database. I know I say I don't like Battlescribe, but the way battlescribe does it is popular for a reason; just replace the people building the data files with a centralized GW corporate team and you've got yourself a living rule-set that can be updated as new information and changes are added.
It'll also cost the low low price of $40.99 per month and be buggier than a dune buggy covered in fleas. But y'know.
Audustum wrote:I feel GW can and probably will solve this issue by releasing and charging for a compendium of all updated rules.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote:I can't wait for 8.1. Just release a mini BRB with the updated rules so we can get out of this mess.
That would be a good solution too (once the rate of rule changes drops right off). Of course, having already replaced the indexes with codexes, replacing CA with a compendium might well rub a few gamers up the wrong way (again).
Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
Well, these 11 documents are still less to remember than the basic rules in 7th edition, so I'm fine
Seriously, during my last two games both players forgot the rulebook - and guess what we didn't need it even though we only play once every two months. Yes, you need the Codex. For the mission you can use CA or create one via open war cards.
There's nothing in the FaQs that's hard to remember, most things are clarifications or discussed enough so that you can remember them. Version 3 of my DG codex FaQ is two pages I think, it's not that hard to print these out and put them in a codex. Same with index rules, simply copy the 1-2 pages (Sorceror/Lord on palanquin, Plague Marines if you use combi-weapons on the Champion) and put them in the codex.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Agree to disagree.I don't care when playing with mates or a fun game but if they want to play serious I have everything printed that is GW approved. A non approved website that is riding on GW coattails is not something I would look at.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Agree to disagree.I don't care when playing with mates or a fun game but if they want to play serious I have everything printed that is GW approved. A non approved website that is riding on GW coattails is not something I would look at.
I have never seen Battlescribe take more than an hour or so from release to have all new points values updated. I would trust a Battlescribe list to be points accurate over a non BS list any day.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Agree to disagree.I don't care when playing with mates or a fun game but if they want to play serious I have everything printed that is GW approved. A non approved website that is riding on GW coattails is not something I would look at.
I have never seen Battlescribe take more than an hour or so from release to have all new points values updated. I would trust a Battlescribe list to be points accurate over a non BS list any day.
As said agree to disagree. Moreover, I have a tablet with all updates, so if they really want serious business I would check that over BS. But each to own.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Agree to disagree.I don't care when playing with mates or a fun game but if they want to play serious I have everything printed that is GW approved. A non approved website that is riding on GW coattails is not something I would look at.
I have never seen Battlescribe take more than an hour or so from release to have all new points values updated. I would trust a Battlescribe list to be points accurate over a non BS list any day.
As said agree to disagree. Moreover, I have a tablet with all updates, so if they really want serious business I would check that over BS. But each to own.
You do realize that saying "agree to disagree" doesn't actually obligate anyone to do so, right? Also, only really pertinent to opinions. You made a factual claim, that points on Battlescribe are "usually off from the current codex." People are pointing out that that's factually incorrect.
LunarSol wrote: It long, long, long past the time for the Codex to die and be replaced with a digital solution that can consolidate and update itself.
Like some kind of "digital codex"? YOUR LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD MAN!
Codexes, even in a digital format, are still horrendous for gameplay.
How subjective.
I play a lot of games that use a lot of different ways to assist gameplay. I cannot think of an advantage Codexes provide that cards or apps or rosters don't do better. I just don't see what they have to offer anymore.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Agree to disagree.I don't care when playing with mates or a fun game but if they want to play serious I have everything printed that is GW approved. A non approved website that is riding on GW coattails is not something I would look at.
I have never seen Battlescribe take more than an hour or so from release to have all new points values updated. I would trust a Battlescribe list to be points accurate over a non BS list any day.
As said agree to disagree. Moreover, I have a tablet with all updates, so if they really want serious business I would check that over BS. But each to own.
You do realize that saying "agree to disagree" doesn't actually obligate anyone to do so, right? Also, only really pertinent to opinions. You made a factual claim, that points on Battlescribe are "usually off from the current codex." People are pointing out that that's factually incorrect.
I don't remember GW endorsing Battlescibe? so if they are not factual is on you tbh (if want to argue). The comment "agree to disagree' is a comment meaning I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with what you are saying. It's like saying "yer, nah". The key word is "I"
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Agree to disagree.I don't care when playing with mates or a fun game but if they want to play serious I have everything printed that is GW approved. A non approved website that is riding on GW coattails is not something I would look at.
I have never seen Battlescribe take more than an hour or so from release to have all new points values updated. I would trust a Battlescribe list to be points accurate over a non BS list any day.
As said agree to disagree. Moreover, I have a tablet with all updates, so if they really want serious business I would check that over BS. But each to own.
You do realize that saying "agree to disagree" doesn't actually obligate anyone to do so, right? Also, only really pertinent to opinions. You made a factual claim, that points on Battlescribe are "usually off from the current codex." People are pointing out that that's factually incorrect.
I don't remember GW endorsing Battlescibe? so if they are not factual is on you tbh (if want to argue). The comment "agree to disagree' is a comment meaning I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with what you are saying. It's like saying "yer, nah". The key word is "I"
That's...that's the most nonsensical thing I've read all day. Whether or not GW has "endorsed" Battlescribe has literally zero bearing on whether the points values are accurate, nor does it magically make other people responsible for the factual correctness of your statement.
You claimed that Battlescribe usually has incorrect points values. You were wrong; they don't, and they are extremely quick to update them. That's not "on" anybody but you.
Nobody is saying you have to use BS of you don't like it. But if you make demonstrably false claims, expect people to correct you.
TeAXIIIT13 wrote: Welcome to warhammer 40k 7th edition... oh wait, to play at a store in 7th you only “needed” 3 sources total, rulebook, and 2 codex’s. in 8th edition you do need about 7sources and you still would take longer to play, would t finish the game and argue over rules every 30 seconds. You only have tournaments and the power gamers to blame for ruining a perfectly good NARRATIVE game that’s original edition “rogue trader” was based off of dnd, a narrative game.
Yeah I’m a “salty seventh” player, I never played in a tournament and my favourite and best army was orks and I loved them in 7th.
What 7th were you playing? You needed formations, campaign books, and supplements if you were certain armies, and rules issues in 7th were far longer then that.
Given the fluid nature of rules and the rate by which they get changed depending on how some tossed at a tournament exploited the system, they really should be offering a digital download with every purchase of a codex so that you can always have an updated version
Sumilidon wrote: Given the fluid nature of rules and the rate by which they get changed depending on how some tossed at a tournament exploited the system, they really should be offering a digital download with every purchase of a codex so that you can always have an updated version
If you can connect to the internet and can afford a pad of sticky notes and a pen then you can update your codex whenever you want.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Never used battlescribe (always when I see it, I hate the format and points are usually off compared to the current codex or faq/chapter approved) however living codex's/rule books produced by GW would be awesome and worth subscription.
I have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
Agree to disagree.I don't care when playing with mates or a fun game but if they want to play serious I have everything printed that is GW approved. A non approved website that is riding on GW coattails is not something I would look at.
I have never seen Battlescribe take more than an hour or so from release to have all new points values updated. I would trust a Battlescribe list to be points accurate over a non BS list any day.
As said agree to disagree. Moreover, I have a tablet with all updates, so if they really want serious business I would check that over BS. But each to own.
You do realize that saying "agree to disagree" doesn't actually obligate anyone to do so, right? Also, only really pertinent to opinions. You made a factual claim, that points on Battlescribe are "usually off from the current codex." People are pointing out that that's factually incorrect.
I don't remember GW endorsing Battlescibe? so if they are not factual is on you tbh (if want to argue). The comment "agree to disagree' is a comment meaning I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with what you are saying. It's like saying "yer, nah". The key word is "I"
That's...that's the most nonsensical thing I've read all day. Whether or not GW has "endorsed" Battlescribe has literally zero bearing on whether the points values are accurate, nor does it magically make other people responsible for the factual correctness of your statement.
You claimed that Battlescribe usually has incorrect points values. You were wrong; they don't, and they are extremely quick to update them. That's not "on" anybody but you.
Nobody is saying you have to use BS of you don't like it. But if you make demonstrably false claims, expect people to correct you.
Hence the agree to disagree... I must be clearer... """""I"""""" agree to disagree. Its not an opinion for debate, it's my opinion. Think I need to emphasis, in my experience it has been not up to par and looking at points even now is off in a lot so """I""" disagree and I don't use it. I refer you to the angels song "No way.......it was a minor comment and you are turning it into a big argument???? I don't like it, I don't use it. No big deal?
Hence the agree to disagree... I must be clearer... """""I"""""" agree to disagree. Its not an opinion for debate, it's my opinion. Think I need to emphasis, in my experience it has been not up to par and looking at points even now is off in a lot so """I""" disagree and I don't use it. I refer you to the angels song "No way.......it was a minor comment and you are turning it into a big argument???? I don't like it, I don't use it. No big deal?
The fact that you keep insisting their points values are off when they aren't is really just making me wonder how accurate your lists are.
Again, nobody is saying you have to like it or use it. Just don't make false claims.
Or, you know, we can just do what people normally do and memorize the rule set and relevant changes. The 40k Community is the only group on the planet that acts like memorizing a couple hundred pages of data is impossible.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Read the first few comments and was meh... Buy a tablet and have all the downloads/keep up to date... Just sounds like whining to me.
Quoting myself (took out the pseudo controversial bit... ) but i agree. Its not hard.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Read the first few comments and was meh... Buy a tablet and have all the downloads/keep up to date... Just sounds like whining to me.
Quoting myself (took out the pseudo controversial bit... but i agree. Its not hard.
Or just on your phone.. i mean unless you are some kinda hipster with a flip phone still
TeAXIIIT13 wrote: Welcome to warhammer 40k 7th edition... oh wait, to play at a store in 7th you only “needed” 3 sources total, rulebook, and 2 codex’s. in 8th edition you do need about 7sources and you still would take longer to play, would t finish the game and argue over rules every 30 seconds. You only have tournaments and the power gamers to blame for ruining a perfectly good NARRATIVE game that’s original edition “rogue trader” was based off of dnd, a narrative game.
Yeah I’m a “salty seventh” player, I never played in a tournament and my favourite and best army was orks and I loved them in 7th.
What 7th were you playing? You needed formations, campaign books, and supplements if you were certain armies, and rules issues in 7th were far longer then that.
You didn’t “need” formations (every Codex had at least 1), you didn’t “need” campaign books (they were optional for those that wanted to play narrative campaigns) and you didn’t “need” supplements (again optional). I played 7th straight out the box, no changes no stupid tournament or itc rules changes, yeah I house rules a bit (mainly using 6th’s D table). Honest question though, if 7th was so broken at its core like everyone claims, 1: why did no one ever say the same about 3rd-6th? They we the same rules with minor tweaks every time.
2: why does heresy 1st edition use the so called “broken at its core” 7th as its foundation and why does no one complain that heresy is broken when the only “changes” (I’ve read every word side by side in the heresy and 7th edition rulebooks) are 1 psychic power, the way armies are constructed and the fact you can use all of your grenades in close combat (which until the 7th edition FAQ’s was what everyone did anyways so wasn’t really a change?
So all GW needs is to make a perfectly balanced game with precise and unambiguous rules while not ever publishing any clarifications or balance changes.
BaconCatBug wrote: 1) Because 7th wasn't a minor tweak. Formations and the Psychic phase broke the game in half.
2) Heresy 1st edition is Marines Vs Marines, so there isn't much problem with balance.
It was a minor tweak, psychic powers didn’t “break” the game (power gamers that abused them did) and I never mentioned balance, I mentioned people claiming the core rules were broken, how does “it’s marines vs marines and therefore balanced” mean that the core of the rules isn’t broken? If the core of the rules (the same core rules since 3rd) how does making it balanced mean the core isn’t broken? Here’s a plank that’s snapped in half with bricks on either end, if we make sure the same amount of bricks are on both sides then the plank is fixed, it’s magic!
Again I was an ork player and you want to talk to me about balance?
I haven't done it in 8th yet, but for 7th I snipped the pages I needed from my codex (E-book), and for what allied stuff I used the most (Inquisitors and such). I put them in a PDF, which I printed out. came out to an 11 page packet. From there, if I added a unit from another codex, I'd print out the pages I needed. So most games I had the Main Rules (mini when possible), my rules packet, and maybe 1-3 extra supplements.
sfshilo wrote: there is this new fangled thing called battlescribe that exists, crazy I know. I play other game systems that don't have answers, it's annoying. (Looking at you Dropfleet.....)
I hardly ever have a book out when I play, it's there in case I forget something or need to check on a rules conundrum.
quentraI wrote:have found the opposite to be case - people without battlescribe will often write their list without taking into account all the errata/FAQs and be horribly out of date. I prefer Battlescribe for that, and I generally require my opponents to make their list on Battlescribe so it's easy for me to check.
i use Battlescribe also and find it to be quite good. all i bring to games is my printed army list from BS (which will have all updated points values and rules accounted for) and a Battle Primer since I'm still new to 8th Ed. Codex is in my bag but i havent needed to take it out yet.
its a great help to me too being new to the game as it wont let me over equip units, take too many etc or just generally build my army wrong
i even found a problem with an entry in BS and posted up about it on the github. got a response almost straight away and a user has been assigned to fix it.
so i think its a great idea and works very well. The day GW follow this method I will happily jump on board but until then I'll stick with BS
Step one, realise that these books have no resale value after the edition changes
Step two, set aside a couple of hours with all the documents
Step three, actually update your rule book and codex
Now you only need to carry two books. You're welcome.
Or just buy the digital codex and rule book and they are updated with most of the changes.
Sorry for all the gronards print books are largely obsolete they don’t magically update themselves.
1) it is meant as a tool to ease the burden of needing to remember things from multiple different sources and all the updates when writing a list, it is NOT and NEVER WILL BE meant as a replacement.
2) Reading your codex is still on you. there are a ton of things in the codex that have no place in the dataset (and never will) because they exist in the rulebook or are part of overarching army construction (those 2-page prefaces to the datasheets? those are important)
We still get a ton of bug reports from people who have obviously never looked in chapter approved or the faqs
3) While we strive to be as up to date as possible, we are ultimately a group of volunteers doing this for free. Things may get missed and some things may not be updated on time. I know I missed a few things with the initial drukhari update because of the raw number of profiles to compare. Chaos currently is waiting on a bunch of Big FAQ updates because the guy who has primary on those files had other things to attend to.
Bottom line: We encourage the use of Battlescribe to make quick and easy lists, but if you want 100% accuracy (and especially for events) its on you to check your lists and read and know your rules.
edit: for clarity the sub/supporter tag goes purely to the creator of the program, who has no affiliation with the guys that make the data set beyond us pestering him for bugfixes now and then.
edit the 2nd:
drbored wrote: A. Use battlescribe. Points changes are plugged into there for you. When GW comes out with their own 40k list builder, hopefully it will have matched play point values as well.
I hate to say it, but only the very small minority that have actually worked on the BS data files for a moderate length of time know how painful getting everything correct actually is. GW hasn't even managed it with Azyr for AoS, and the burnout rate in the 40kBS maintainer group is pretty high (average new person that wants to help lasts 2-3 weeks)
I'll use the easiest example: the Designer Commentary and a consistent stance on how to implement it. There are a large number of conflicts caused by GW's own wording and examples, for multiple different entries, to the point where eventually the decision was taken to just support as many non-mutually exclusive interpretations that could 'Possibly' be valid.
Elbows wrote: Solution: Don't play 40K, and subsequently don't post threads about it?
"Man, these gas prices are so high, it's kind of ridiculous"
"Well, don't drive the car you spent 20 grand on. It's that simple."
That's what that sounds like.
Given the creator of the thread has been clearly making topics like this in a large manner of ways to nitpick or in general trying to get people to dislike the game.. It's very valid.
gungo wrote: Or just buy the digital codex and rule book and they are updated with most of the changes.
I couldn't see any information on the GW website about digital codexes getting updates. Do both the ePub and Enhanced versions get automatically updated? You say 'most' changes. What updates aren't included?
I don’t play that often so the twice yearly updates of 8th edition are overwhelming. My small group is sticking with 7th Edition for now because we also play Horus Heresy and its hard enough to remember all the rules in one set without swapping back and forth.
I like that they try to fix things, but I think changes should be limited to points costs that are freely available online. Leave the rules alone throughout the same edition.
The things to add during an edition should be new missions, campaign rules, ways to play like Kill Teams, etc. That keeps things fresh without invalidating the previous rules and they are only options and additions, not core rules.
Besides that, I play Orks and I don’t want to buy an index that is just points costs that will likely be obsolete almost immediately. I don’t mind buying codices knowing they will be obsolete in a few years but an index without the fluff just doesn’t seem worth it.
Elbows wrote: Solution: Don't play 40K, and subsequently don't post threads about it?
"Man, these gas prices are so high, it's kind of ridiculous"
"Well, don't drive the car you spent 20 grand on. It's that simple."
That's what that sounds like.
If driving your car was a hobby...then yes, that's exactly the same thing. You should read some of BCB other inane and pointless threads. The forum is awash with them.
deathwinguk wrote: I couldn't see any information on the GW website about digital codexes getting updates. Do both the ePub and Enhanced versions get automatically updated? What updates aren't included?
deathwinguk wrote: I couldn't see any information on the GW website about digital codexes getting updates. Do both the ePub and Enhanced versions get automatically updated? What updates aren't included?
Epubs have never been updated, even to fix things like LITERALLY MISSING rules in the Dark Angel codex. Enhanced ones have apparently been updated but I am not an apple fanboy so I don't own anything apple to see.
deathwinguk wrote: I couldn't see any information on the GW website about digital codexes getting updates. Do both the ePub and Enhanced versions get automatically updated? What updates aren't included?
Epubs have never been updated, even to fix things like LITERALLY MISSING rules in the Dark Angel codex. Enhanced ones have apparently been updated but I am not an apple fanboy so I don't own anything apple to see.
Well as someone who has a Samsung Galaxy and a Chromebook it seems like digital codexes wouldn't help me either...
Earth127 wrote: Fun car fact. Bigger more expensive cars use more fuel. So be carefull what you buy, Upkeep is a bitch.
Ah, the old "You can afford to buy a Ferrari, but can you afford to own one?" I know many guys in their 20's who thought buying a $10K used Ferrari from 1992 was going to be a good idea.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
Well until 9th comes out anyway in a year or two.
You know, I would be fine if a year or two down the line they release "9th" and it's just 8th with all the FAQs rolled into it, as a slim paperback rulebook with no lore. I would pay 20 for that.
I played a game last Saturday at the FLGS. I took the Craftworld Codex and the rules leaflet. The FAQ I can download through the phone if any rule ambiguities come up. Doesn't happen that often, but you never know.
That is technically just 2 documents I had to take with me.
Sorry, correction. I took also Battletome: Daughter's of Khaine and the rules leaflet for Age of Sigmar so total of 4 documents.
I don't get why people think they need to carry everything with them. Not unless they are facing opponents who demand to go point over point like damn IRS accountant before battle starts.
I feel the new GW system is great. They are actively listening to the community and updating their rules.
However I feel they're too hooked on paper. A living ruleset would work much better with a living online document that gets updated, removing any outdated information.
Mayk0l wrote: I feel the new GW system is great. They are actively listening to the community and updating their rules.
However I feel they're too hooked on paper. A living ruleset would work much better with a living online document that gets updated, removing any outdated information.
But then they couldn't sell it..... not nearly as easily anyway (actually all they had to do was make an azyr for 40k and id be pretty happy)
besides if it wasn't for paper where would we get our leaks .
If I were just starting out, I'd simply not bother trying to get into 40k.
Man I’m glad you didn’t play in any of the earlier editions. We needed to have in 7th Core Rulebook, Core FAQ, Codex, and Codex FAQ. And then if you played in tourneys every tournament had its own rules packets with their own missions. The rules were so hard to find that you literally had to comb through hundreds of pages to find out how Gargantuan creatures worked. And don’t get me started on how vehicles had different stats than other units it made no sense.
Honestly there is a level of complexity that you have to get over when learning any game. Even a simple board game. There are many tutorials online and batreps to explain the rules. I haven’t purchased anything other than the main rulebook and my index(Orks) and I’ve been fine. Yes there have been points changes in the Chapter Approved but I prefer Power Level. (If I have to use points my free BattleScribe has those).
Aside from my army I’ve spent probably 70$ US in the last year on 8th Edition.
I started at the tail end of 2nd, so really my first edition was 3rd. I quit when 6th came about because it was a mess. I luckily skipped the dumpster fire that was 7th.
Mayk0l wrote: I feel the new GW system is great. They are actively listening to the community and updating their rules.
However I feel they're too hooked on paper. A living ruleset would work much better with a living online document that gets updated, removing any outdated information.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
Poor analogy.
It is more like buying a game, then getting free patches to fix unforeseen issues, as opposed to paid DLC (which is what your example is)
They could do a subscription model, where you pay per month to get access to all the rules in a digital model and they will be kept up to date.
That way they get ongoing subscription style funding, rather than big gluts when the books come out, and we get to be kept up to date.
I did suggest that they produce datasheets as A5 size cards, which have version numbers on them. That way you can take them out of some kind of quick reference book and chance them when necessary, and you don't need to take all of the rules/sheets for things you don't have in your army.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
Changes take time and they need to sort out the main rules of the game before working on the fine details. There's no point in reworking GK if the core rules for two of their main strengths (Smite and deep striking) are being changed and need to be tested.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
Changes take time and they need to sort out the main rules of the game before working on the fine details. There's no point in reworking GK if the core rules for two of their main strengths (Smite and deep striking) are being changed and need to be tested.
Yes, because every army that relies on smite or charging is at the bottom of the barrel, except they're not. BA had a good niche in the top tier until the beta rule. Thousand Sons are actually BETTER damage dealers with the new beta rule, e.t.c. e.t.c. There's no reason GK can't be brought up to that level at least except that no one at GW understands the faction that well. Even our characters are stuck with 1 damage smite!
There's been a significant amount of time to implement any desired changes for GK. There aren't any desired changes for GK.
I actually just go into 40k last month, it's actually nice knowing that they update rules on the fly, lots of games do that. If you have a good teacher/store you can learn pretty quickly. Who uses a rulebook anyways? Every game I have played, regardless it being a 2000 point game and or a teaching game,, not one person had a rulebook in sight. I don't know if this is common, but as a noob I could care less how many documents I have to have as long as they don't ignore the broken stuff.
vaklor4 wrote: 8th will literally never be done, welcome to a living rules set. It has its flaws, but at least nothing stays totally overwhelming for very long.
I'd rather not pay full price for unfinished rules.
It's like if you came home from GW with a box of space marines and you opened it up to find the heads were missing because GW hasn't decided on what style they want yet. Then you have to wait 6 months for these new heads and buy them only to fine out 90% of the style is just ripped from 7th and previous editions. XD
You've failed to grasp the meaning of "living rules". The rules are never finished because they constantly change and adapt. It sucked when you got a craptastic codex then had to wait 8 years for a new one. Now you wait 6 months. Why cry you have to print out some papers....
Great idea in theory, but so far Grey Knights are waiting a lot longer than 6 months.
Sucks to be grey
Best thing you could is send some feed back like battle reports, a detailed breakdown of why gk sucks, or suggestions to geedubs.
they are not going to change anything without feed back. and if non of the "pro" players are playing them then its going to take far longer for GW to realize theirs as problem
From what I've been reading here and on Bolter and Chainsword, there have been quite a few GK players e-mailing them since last August. At B+C they even agreed on a specific set of proposed changes and all requested the same ones.
I'm starting to think 'living ruleset' is more like 'if we feel like it' ruleset, which is better than 'stasis ruleset' but it does change perspective a bit.
Changes take time and they need to sort out the main rules of the game before working on the fine details. There's no point in reworking GK if the core rules for two of their main strengths (Smite and deep striking) are being changed and need to be tested.
Yes, because every army that relies on smite or charging is at the bottom of the barrel, except they're not. BA had a good niche in the top tier until the beta rule. Thousand Sons are actually BETTER damage dealers with the new beta rule, e.t.c. e.t.c. There's no reason GK can't be brought up to that level at least except that no one at GW understands the faction that well. Even our characters are stuck with 1 damage smite!
There's been a significant amount of time to implement any desired changes for GK. There aren't any desired changes for GK.
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fething mobile and quote formating or whatever it is.
There are other armies besides Grey Knights. Several don't even have a codex yet. GW will get to GK in time but they have other priorities. 8th isn't even a year old yet and you're being impatient and demanding fixes NOW which is pretty unreasonable (please don't respond with a car or food comparison). People seem to forget that OTHER PEOPLE play this game and it's not just all about you and your army. Likewise, the rules team isn't a large team and probably no more than like 5 or 6 guys so there's only so much they can dedicate their time to to meet deadlines.
I'm beginning to think that people forget that the GW rules team are just a bunch of nerds in an office. They're treated like they should be superhumans and able to know and fix all the problems with all the games all at the same time. I've tried writing game rules before and doing one game is difficult enough let alone doing the core rules for several games and factions all at once as well as revising previous rules and coming up with new rules for whatever factions may exist in the future.
Ive been thinking about this. Chapter Approved has to be the solution. If the Chapter Approved was a reprinted version of the rules, including all of the errata and FAQ, then that solves much of the problem for the core rules.
For the codexes, i think re-releasing rules annually with the errata included, but also include your flavour-of-the-month supplement here.
So once per year you can throw out your core rules FAQs, and once per year you can choose to throw out your codex FAQs.
Most people wont buy every book every year, but after 3 years I think most people would replace them - and thats approximately the usual cycle.
plark wrote: I actually just go into 40k last month, it's actually nice knowing that they update rules on the fly, lots of games do that. If you have a good teacher/store you can learn pretty quickly. Who uses a rulebook anyways? Every game I have played, regardless it being a 2000 point game and or a teaching game,, not one person had a rulebook in sight. I don't know if this is common, but as a noob I could care less how many documents I have to have as long as they don't ignore the broken stuff.
This is good to hear from a new player.
After a few games you wont need the 40kBRB also you can just print out the Depolyments if you dont know them and use Chapter Approve missions and never need to carry the BRB at all, and once you learn you army you dont need the codex as much and can leave it in your bag for the most part (tho that might take 20+ games to learn you army)
Some people over react just to be reacting, updating the game is good, so what if you need to print out a couple pages to learn a few faqs, but any experience player will read the faqs once or twice and know what is changed and mostly why, they wont need to carry around.
I have a backpack with all my rules and hang it on my chair where i play, if i need a book out i get it out, i mostly just bring them for others to look at, and not so much for me.
So you print out 2-3 pages, fold them and stick them in your codex if it's that big of a deal? Or do what any sane person does and make your cheat sheet.
I have a genuine solution for your BCB; stop playing 40K.
Mayk0l wrote: I feel the new GW system is great. They are actively listening to the community and updating their rules.
However I feel they're too hooked on paper. A living ruleset would work much better with a living online document that gets updated, removing any outdated information.
Record profits from selling you new paper every few weeks. Stop getting scammed and stop buying gw printed books. They are literally full of errors and FAQ's are being prepared before release.
How many people bought the garbage index just for it to be literal garbage now?
EnTyme wrote: Did someone actually charge you money for the FAQ, Pancakey? If so, you should probably demand your money back.
I don't buy paper gw rules anymore. The 8th ed rules base just too much of a mess. The paper codexs that have been released are not actually usable as printed because so much has changed.
EnTyme wrote: Did someone actually charge you money for the FAQ, Pancakey? If so, you should probably demand your money back.
I don't buy paper gw rules anymore. The 8th ed rules base just too much of a mess. The paper codexs that have been released are not actually usable as printed because so much has changed.
Guess who just won the Most Hyperbolic Statement of the year award?
And even after all that they still haven't fixed several fundamental flaws.
The Space Wolves have almost more Errata than rules!
