99.9% of people reading this don't need to be told - but for the sake of the 0.1% who do, and those who have to stand near them, please have a shower and clean yourselves up before coming to public events.
Last night I helped a few friends run a little hobby & games shindig they put on for their LGS group. It wasn't a big thing, maybe two dozen people in a small church hall, yet even with this tiny sample size there were still people turning up smelling like unwashed ass - and, in one case, rotten mutton(?!). The smell off one person was so bad we had to ask him to leave, but he was merely the worst offender - there were a few others whose odour wasn't bad enough to be disruptive, but who were nonetheless noticeably unclean. I'd like to say they were all very young, possibly living away from home for the first time, who had no idea how to comport themselves without parental guidance and were still learning the vagaries of personal admin - I want to say that, but the dude we had to remove was in his mid-forties. I'd also like to say they were all male, but that wouldn't be true either.
People sometimes say this kind of thing is the reason women don't wargame, as though the only reason to clean yourself is to attract women into your social circles. It's not. You may not care that your anime shirt reeks of dried cum and human dung, but outside of your bedroom you're not the only one who has to put up with it.
Please - have a shower and clean yourself up.
/rant
PS: This is not directed at the people who have occasional lapses in personal hygeine. That happens to almost everyone - maybe you're running late, or the leccy is off, or maybe you're quite a big person and you naturally sweat a fair bit no matter how hard you scrub prior to attending. Fine by me - a little B.O isn't the worst thing in the world, and allowances can and should be made. However, there's a world of difference between a little B.O and the stench produced by dedicated long-term neglect of your personal hygeine. The former is forgivable once in a while, the latter is vile.
We have a guy at our local gaming store we call Stained Shirt Guy. He semms fine, and he has okay bathing habits seemingly, but this neckbearded man seems to perpetually have a stain on his shirt, no matter what day we see him. It's incredible.
BBAP wrote: 99.9% of people reading this don't need to be told - but for the sake of the 0.1% who do, and those who have to stand near them, please have a shower and clean yourselves up before coming to public events.
Last night I helped a few friends run a little hobby & games shindig they put on for their LGS group. It wasn't a big thing, maybe two dozen people in a small church hall, yet even with this tiny sample size there were still people turning up smelling like unwashed ass - and, in one case, rotten mutton(?!). The smell off one person was so bad we had to ask him to leave, but he was merely the worst offender - there were a few others whose odour wasn't bad enough to be disruptive, but who were nonetheless noticeably unclean. I'd like to say they were all very young, possibly living away from home for the first time, who had no idea how to comport themselves without parental guidance and were still learning the vagaries of personal admin - I want to say that, but the dude we had to remove was in his mid-forties. I'd also like to say they were all male, but that wouldn't be true either.
People sometimes say this kind of thing is the reason women don't wargame, as though the only reason to clean yourself is to attract women into your social circles. It's not. You may not care that your anime shirt reeks of dried cum and human dung, but outside of your bedroom you're not the only one who has to put up with it.
Please - have a shower and clean yourself up.
/rant
PS: This is not directed at the people who have occasional lapses in personal hygeine. That happens to almost everyone - maybe you're running late, or the leccy is off, or maybe you're quite a big person and you naturally sweat a fair bit no matter how hard you scrub prior to attending. Fine by me - a little B.O isn't the worst thing in the world, and allowances can and should be made. However, there's a world of difference between a little B.O and the stench produced by dedicated long-term neglect of your personal hygeine. The former is forgivable once in a while, the latter is vile.
I have a nightmare story about a kid at a Rogue Trader event.
I won't get into it but my friend was not only matched up against him in round one but also had the same army (3.5...4th? Lord WBB with D3 wounds era).
I have also been to a mega battle in too small a space where the combined pheromones lead to massive stench and hot tempers.
My biggest concern for myself is that I smoke. The smell bothers even myself when walking to a non smoking environment so I can imagine it must be worse for those around me when I walk back in after deployment... And after the bottom of turn 2...
It's weird... I always shower every time I go out snd wear clean clothes. There was a period of time when my washing machine was broken and all y clothers smelt damp all the time and I hated it. So now I make sure to super clean them.
In terms to the tried sperm smell... I find this weird. I personally can't smell it and don't know what it smells like. I've had partners who tell me the hate the smell... but my current partner says it has no smell at all... so not sure about that comment .... also wtf! Why are people cumming on their shirts and wearing them to a gaming club thing anyway?!
This is the entire reason my wife won't go into any kind of gaming store although she finds 40k interesting. The mixture of unwashed dudes, swass and BO are usually too much for her. I don't blame her.
Please sometime in-between playing (insert video game) and leaving your place, do a smell check and change/bathe as necessary.
Stinkiness will cause anywhere between a -1 to a -5 to your opponent's enjoyment roll.
Thiss is even worse when its store staff that are the offenders. Had it last year the usual staff member was on holiday and the ring in hed gotten had appalling b.o. needless to say, i didnt set foot back inside the store till the usual guy came back.
It is a curse upon gaming, and I have no idea why people think it's okay to funk up a packed space like that. I think politely pointing it out to people, whilst handing them a deoderant, is okay in bad cases. I thought we'd be over this by now as a community.
As a larger chap myself I don't want to smell funky or make anyone else put up with it. I always carry a can of deodorant with me when I go out somewhere social. It's just manners if nothing else.
Well I try to be reasonably clean but the idea of shower before going to play area is pretty much impossible. I would get home even at earliest ~5:15(and that's some fast driving). Games start at 18:00. Train back to where I left from work(which is where games are) would depart at 18.00. I would get to gaming area at around 18:45 and need to depart back to the train at around 20:00. Obviously timing wise not feasible...
I just need to hope work doesn't leave me too sweaty. Luckily it's desktop work.
^ If you're going to game after a long days work, take a few wet wipes, deodorant, toothbrush/paste and new shirt with you. Just jump into the toilet at work or at the game store, wash your face, wipe down your armpits brush your teeth, a little spray and a new shirt. Bingo bango you're a new mano!
As for smelly people. I just tell them. I don't say it in a mean way just directly. If you can't do the most basic of things in order not to smell you deserve a head up.
I can't find it anymore, but last year (or 2016) there was a thread about these kind of people. Oh God, the narratives. Not just bad smelling people, but those with weird behavior.
We had a group of three of us at an ancients tourny who brought lysol cans and sprayed down the one bad perpetual
offender every time we passed him at his table,... embarrassed him enough to help him change his ways
(and he was a thin athletic lawyer, who just enjoyed offending players with BO and gas attacks...)
( I think he was trying to do so as a form of psychological
warfare!)
I've, unfortunately, been on both sides of the fence on this. I don't have an excuse for myself and most people wouldn't say anything, they'd just avoid me. Years later, I've cleaned up my act but it still embarrasses me, and made me extremely self-conscious about appearing in public.
A piece of advice - most often it's the clothes themselves that have "gone ripe". Moreso than a shower, launder the clothes. YOU can't smell it, but everyone else can.
Often the worst offenders are socks & shoes. If ever in doubt, leave the shoes on.
Do we really need another thread about this subject? It's always the same old stories blowing an occasional bad person way out of proportion into some kind of hobby-wide crisis. In all the years I've been playing various games I have never encountered anyone bad enough to remember. People sweating in a hot store and not being fresh out of the shower clean? Sure, but nothing worse than you'd find in any other random group of people doing a hobby.
I've been blessed with a funked up nasal cavity where I can barely breathe through my nose normally, so smell is my weakest sense. As such I often don't notice when some people are stinking up the joint - but if I do, it must be bad.
However, the opposite side of that is that I've told my friends that if I stink, tell me. I'm massive on personal hygiene and don't believe I do, but I wouldn't notice if I did. I can "cope" with the normal stink that happens when 8-10 people are crammed in a small space. That's understandable, especially in Charleston with the heat. I do, however, recognize "that guy" when they come in and literally clear out a game store.
Last time this conversation came up, a couple of guys came on here and tried to justify it with various mental minutia and various "health" issues they had which led to the stank - but the reality is if you're incapable or afraid of washing yourself, etc....you're the one responsible for not showing up. That seems harsh, but don't punish other people because you have a social anxiety over the use of soap, etc. I had a buddy in high school who had overactive sweat glands - literally all the time. But he managed to get doctor prescribed medicine, special antiperspirant, etc. He solved the problem as best he could and it was never an issue with us.
It's a simple common courtesy. Sadly most of it is simple sweat and BO...for which there is zero excuse.
Elbows wrote: I've been blessed with a funked up nasal cavity where I can barely breathe through my nose normally, so smell is my weakest sense. As such I often don't notice when some people are stinking up the joint - but if I do, it must be bad.
However, the opposite side of that is that I've told my friends that if I stink, tell me. I'm massive on personal hygiene and don't believe I do, but I wouldn't notice if I did. I can "cope" with the normal stink that happens when 8-10 people are crammed in a small space. That's understandable, especially in Charleston with the heat. I do, however, recognize "that guy" when they come in and literally clear out a game store.
Last time this conversation came up, a couple of guys came on here and tried to justify it with various mental minutia and various "health" issues they had which led to the stank - but the reality is if you're incapable or afraid of washing yourself, etc....you're the one responsible for not showing up. That seems harsh, but don't punish other people because you have a social anxiety over the use of soap, etc. I had a buddy in high school who had overactive sweat glands - literally all the time. But he managed to get doctor prescribed medicine, special antiperspirant, etc. He solved the problem as best he could and it was never an issue with us.
It's a simple common courtesy. Sadly most of it is simple sweat and BO...for which there is zero excuse.
We have the exact same problem and have found the same fix, I too ask my mates to let me know and am very self conscious about it.
We used to have a member of our club we called nurgle boy, enough said really.
lolman1c wrote: Why are people cumming on their shirts and wearing them to a gaming club thing anyway?!
I can't answer that, and frankly I find this less disturbing than the putrefied meat dude. I can imagine why a lonely young man with zero self awareness might end up smelling faintly of dried semen, but I have no earthly idea how a person could come to smell of ammonia without noticing. It was so bad we thought someone had stolen a bottle from the cleaner's cupboard and spilled it or something. It's a shame because he seems like an otherwise pleasant man, but the place was turning into Funkytown and it just wasn't tolerable.
Vector Strike wrote: I can't find it anymore, but last year (or 2016) there was a thread about these kind of people. Oh God, the narratives. Not just bad smelling people, but those with weird behavior.
I can imagine - although in fairness to our little subculture the antisocial weirdness seems much less eminent now than it was back in the olden days. Not sure if the growing popularity of geek subculture has had a diluting effect on the number of maladjusted roasters or if people are just less awkward and strange than they were when I was a kid, but either way it's a good thing.
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Peregrine wrote: Do we really need another thread about this subject? It's always the same old stories blowing an occasional bad person way out of proportion into some kind of hobby-wide crisis. In all the years I've been playing various games I have never encountered anyone bad enough to remember. People sweating in a hot store and not being fresh out of the shower clean? Sure, but nothing worse than you'd find in any other random group of people doing a hobby.
Like I said in the OP, there's a world of difference between developing a little B.O during a session and constantly smelling like an open drain because you don't attend to your personal hygeine. The former is biologically inevitable, whereas the latter is simply delinquent behaviour.
I know I sweat a bit, and take care to wear deodorant and wear clean clothes.
I work in law enforcement as my main carreer, so grooming is something I have to keep up with (Clean shaven, haircut, proper attire/uniform, etc.) and I take pride in my appearance as a result of the effort I put in. I also work for a FLGS part time as well to help make a little extra money. I've seen a number of people who, for some reason, either refuse to, or don't care to clean or bathe themselves regularly.
We've got one pair/trio depending on how many of them show up who, and I'm going to be polite here, seem off. Rarely bathed or properly groomed, often dirty clothes and smelly, and socially awkward to a painful degree. They look like your worst stereotypical mental picture.
That said, they're not bad people, and I give them the same level of customer service I give anyone in the store, but they just kinda do their own thing over on a table and everyone else avoids them because of how they act, and look/smell. I almost want to take a few minutes with them and just explain basic hygiene to them, but then again I don't want to come off as a jerk either. They're not hurting anyone and not depriving the store of business, yet, thankfully.
It's a curious thing. I wish I had an answer for it. That said, we do have a couple of sticks of free deodorant in one of the bathrooms on a shelf and I'm not above pulling someone aside privately and giving them one, before instructing them to go put some on. Hasn't happened yet, hopefully it worn't.
BBAP wrote: Like I said in the OP, there's a world of difference between developing a little B.O during a session and constantly smelling like an open drain because you don't attend to your personal hygeine. The former is biologically inevitable, whereas the latter is simply delinquent behaviour.
Yes, I understand that. What I said is that the latter is so rare, in my experience, that it might as well not exist. For every legitimate bad experience there is a whole crowd of people exaggerating it as a hobby-wide crisis, and threads that have little purpose besides self-congratulatory bragging about how they are capable of basic life skills.
Luckily I'm friends with the people in my 40k group at the FLGS. And we don't have this problem. I sweat. A lot, but some deodorant in the bag is something most sweaty people do as a matter of course.
But i've been to some cons, smelled some smells and can confirm that a little deodorant while not a difficult concept is definitely ignored by some folks (not lots but some.)
Lion of Caliban wrote: But i've been to some cons, smelled some smells and can confirm that a little deodorant while not a difficult concept is definitely ignored by some folks (not lots but some.)
That's the problem right there, though, "a little deodorant". Or rather, too little deodorant. One little swipe of the stick under your arm isn't enough for most people, especially in warmer climates.
Peregrine wrote: Yes, I understand that. What I said is that the latter is so rare, in my experience, that it might as well not exist.
I disagree. Most wargamers I know have a story or two about a particularly malodorous attendee fugging up their games night or driving people away from the LGS, and this kind of crap is depressingly common in various other spheres of geek culture too. It's not a "hobby-wide crisis", but it's an unpleasant aspect of our little subculture that I feel is worth addressing.
There was a guy we called onions because he always smelled of onions. He'd occasionally turn up for 5 minutes, say some weird things then leave without buying anything. Haven't seen him for a few years now. Maybe he left to work in an onion field and be with his people.
Can this PSA also be extended to include general personal appearance and behaviour as well as hygiene?
I was in the local GW yesterday with a friend who I'm getting in to the hobby through Shadespire. Now I'm a pretty normal bloke as far as this hobby is concerned - I like football, I'm pretty trim, I go to the gym and I work in sales so I have to be presentable. My friend is a typical bloke who got into boardgaming because of the GOT boardgame and I managed to sell the idea of Shadespire to him.
Please just be aware when you're in your local store that some people might be put off if you start acting weird. It wouldn't bother me, I guess I'm either used to it or just don't care enough but for those who are slowly becoming interested in the hobby it can be a massive turn off when you see someone in their mid thirties to mid forties act like a child. It can also be a massive turn off if you start rules lawyering during a friendly game to the point where you suck the fun out of it or it becomes awkward. Be normal. Or pretend to be normal for the ten minutes while a newbie is in the store with you. Then once they are hooked on the hobby act like a weirdo all you like!
An Actual Englishman wrote: Can this PSA also be extended to include general personal appearance and behaviour as well as hygiene?
I was in the local GW yesterday with a friend who I'm getting in to the hobby through Shadespire. Now I'm a pretty normal bloke as far as this hobby is concerned - I like football, I'm pretty trim, I go to the gym and I work in sales so I have to be presentable. My friend is a typical bloke who got into boardgaming because of the GOT boardgame and I managed to sell the idea of Shadespire to him.
Please just be aware when you're in your local store that some people might be put off if you start acting weird. It wouldn't bother me, I guess I'm either used to it or just don't care enough but for those who are slowly becoming interested in the hobby it can be a massive turn off when you see someone in their mid thirties to mid forties act like a child. It can also be a massive turn off if you start rules lawyering during a friendly game to the point where you suck the fun out of it or it becomes awkward. Be normal. Or pretend to be normal for the ten minutes while a newbie is in the store with you. Then once they are hooked on the hobby act like a weirdo all you like!
I think that could be a PSA for social interaction in general, not just in a hobby store, although I definitely run into more people in hobby stores who turn me off with their initial behaviour than in general life happenings. It doesn't mean that they can't put weird behaviour right if they do it, but that first impression in a social environment can be much more important than people like to admit.
I'm very self conscious about it; people will only get the lewd jokes off me when I know them well enough
General Annoyance wrote: I think that could be a PSA for social interaction in general, not just in a hobby store, although I definitely run into more people in hobby stores who turn me off with their initial behaviour than in general life happenings. It doesn't mean that they can't put weird behaviour right if they do it, but that first impression in a social environment can be much more important than people like to admit.
I'm very self conscious about it; people will only get the lewd jokes off me when I know them well enough
Too right, it can apply to all walks of life, the first impression is key and if potential newbies associate weird behaviour with the hobby they'll likely be put off. Which is a shame.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Regarding the "strange behavior" thing, keep in mind that this hobby does tend to attract a larger share of people with ASD compared to other hobbies.
I suspect that to be true though I've never seen any data to back it up. Regardless - if you're on the spectrum that should be more reason to understand and acknowledge that your behaviour might need to adapt to certain situations.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Regarding the "strange behavior" thing, keep in mind that this hobby does tend to attract a larger share of people with ASD compared to other hobbies.
This is a good point; I'm happy to accept "Strange" behaviour if that's the case. However I will say that, for every hobbyist with ASD or something similar, there's plenty who are just plain weird and uncomfortable in a social situation.
I don't expect people to be socially flawless, silver tongued or in possession of a improv class certificate, but it doesn't take much to be pleasant to interact with, especially when you're sharing a common interest in playing TT games.
ASD, or just general social anxiety, is easy enough to work around. It's demanding and asks for a lot of patience, but it's worth doing if it helps someone feel included. Far more annoying to me are the "Mean Girls" of nerd-dom - narcissistic snowflakes who think the gaming group is their own personal fiefdom and use their "expertise" at Warhams/ MtG/ whatever to cover up gaping deficiencies in other areas of their life.
BBAP wrote: ASD, or just general social anxiety, is easy enough to work around. It's demanding and asks for a lot of patience, but it's worth doing if it helps someone feel included. Far more annoying to me are the "Mean Girls" of nerd-dom - narcissistic snowflakes who think the gaming group is their own personal fiefdom and use their "expertise" at Warhams/ MtG/ whatever to cover up gaping deficiencies in other areas of their life.
We have a buddy who fits into this category. He is super normal when we go out for drinks or whatever but anytime he plays with us (which thankfully isn't all the time), he gets basic rules wrong, tries to manipulate them to his advantage. The narrative is completely ruined and all fun is sucked out of the room basically. One of the wives mentioned we laugh so much more when he isn't there.
I think there was an article I saw about the type of tabletop gamers that exist. He fit into the snake category, pretends to be casual but isn't. Worse then a WAAC player because he tries to hide behind being a casual/narrative based player until the gaming begins.
Lion of Caliban wrote: But i've been to some cons, smelled some smells and can confirm that a little deodorant while not a difficult concept is definitely ignored by some folks (not lots but some.)
That's the problem right there, though, "a little deodorant". Or rather, too little deodorant. One little swipe of the stick under your arm isn't enough for most people, especially in warmer climates.
I don't know exactly what it is your'e implying. It's a manner of speaking. Obviously use an appropriate amount of deodorant, and wash daily. Twice a day if needed.
It's definitely not a stereotype in the CIS countries. In the states, we pretty much all have stories about 'That Guy' (not TFG though often these overlap) who for some reason just cannot interact with people, from the smell, the generally unkempt appearance, the incredibly odd speech and language patterns.
But in Ukraine, where I currently live, all the 40k players I've encountered are trim, hipster types who vape and have tattoos.
Never met any person like that, I wonder if it's somehow cultural? I am pretty sure 95% of those stories come from people in English speaking countries.
GuardStrider wrote: Never met any person like that, I wonder if it's somehow cultural? I am pretty sure 95% of those stories come from people in English speaking countries.
It's not a big problem where I am. In my FLGS and the local stores I've visited its very very rare bordering on non existent. If anything it's people visiting the store who play other games. Butt at larger conventions it crops up occasionally. Presumably because you get a wide swath of hobbyists from all over. I mean if a few hundred people are there and you bump into a few people who entirely disregard their hygiene then its rare, but it's still unpleasant.
I feel this shouldn't even need to be a PSA, its just good hygiene and generally expected in any social situation, people shouldn't need to be reminded to wash and shower before being in a hall with potentially hundreds of people..
Galmakh the moonkiller wrote: I feel this shouldn't even need to be a PSA, its just good hygiene and generally expected in any social situation, people shouldn't need to be reminded to wash and shower before being in a hall with potentially hundreds of people..
quentra wrote: It's definitely not a stereotype in the CIS countries. In the states, we pretty much all have stories about 'That Guy' (not TFG though often these overlap) who for some reason just cannot interact with people, from the smell, the generally unkempt appearance, the incredibly odd speech and language patterns.
But in Ukraine, where I currently live, all the 40k players I've encountered are trim, hipster types who vape and have tattoos.
Vapers are just as bad, if not worse. Get that gak away from my table and feth off outside.
Remember, there's a genuine difference to a 'daily whiffy', and a more erm,cultured, stench.
Not everyone can wear deodorant. Some peeps find it plays havoc with their skin, and I dunno about you, but I don't much fancy itchy inflamed oxters. So it's not always a genuine lack of hygiene.
But yeah. When it's not a sweaty smell but something....earthier....they need to just go take a shower.
Alright. I'll agreee to shower, but I'm using this entire bottle of Axe afterwards. People need to know what kind of MAN it takes to dominate with a pokemon themed Slanessh list.
Okay, some observations or notes, especially from a dad that showers every day and has two young teenage boys:
- Young men will smell, no matter what deodorant used and showering twice a day. It is the nature of the beast. (http://www.momjunction.com/articles/body-odor-problems-in-teens_00353333/#gref)
- Many of these games are held during the evening and there would be little or no time to clean-up after work, the dude could be a welder so you also have sweaty leather stink (much like hockey gear stink).
- Usually you have to fit in grabbing some food on the way, some may not think to hold off on onion or garlic.
- Most places we game in are rather small... not much volume of air or air-flow so it only gets worse. They may have smelt fine when they got in... not so much later.
- Speaking of that, poor climate control, how many times have those areas seemed too hot?
- Between family I have and people I know, there are a fair number of people who fall in the spectrum of Autism who play the hobby. When the physical act of cleaning the body can be uncomfortable (high skin sensitivity): these folk may need a higher dose of empathy in that regard. It does not come easy. Something to keep in mind.
- My own personal "problem", when I get into a good painting session for a few hours, you keep your arms down and possibly clamped shut the whole time. My wife calls them "the hobby pits of doom", there is nothing to save those armpits other than a shower and scrubbing.
As a side note, we just recently had a new MTG release and gaming started at midnight on Fri/Sat, I had the "pleasant" experience of walking into a room in the morning of some 40 people who have been up all night drinking energy drinks, coffee, spicy food and had smoke breaks.
It was like hitting a wall and I am a guy who grew up on a farm. The washroom needed to be burned to the ground.
I guess I can say as the original OP said, the majority of people are good, there is typically a horde of mitigating circumstances I think at work for the remainder.
My gaming bag has dice, cards, tape measures, books, a stick of deodorant, a toothbrush, a bottle of cheap cologne, boxers and a t-shirt.
It's never impolite to show people what you carry as a means of conveying what proper preparation looks like. I rarely need the hygiene stuff, it's there to set the example.
Good to have it all on hand to loan your opponent for those times things get all Nurgly.
We had this one player at my FLGS who would pop zits on his face during games then touch his opponent's models. Everyone was too polite to tell him to stop. For a while, I was carrying Purell, 70% Isopropyl and Cotton Swabs as a hard counter.
Talizvar wrote: Okay, some observations or notes, especially from a dad that showers every day and has two young teenage boys:
- Young men will smell, no matter what deodorant used and showering twice a day. It is the nature of the beast. (http://www.momjunction.com/articles/body-odor-problems-in-teens_00353333/#gref)
- Many of these games are held during the evening and there would be little or no time to clean-up after work, the dude could be a welder so you also have sweaty leather stink (much like hockey gear stink).
- Usually you have to fit in grabbing some food on the way, some may not think to hold off on onion or garlic.
- Most places we game in are rather small... not much volume of air or air-flow so it only gets worse. They may have smelt fine when they got in... not so much later.
- Speaking of that, poor climate control, how many times have those areas seemed too hot?
- Between family I have and people I know, there are a fair number of people who fall in the spectrum of Autism who play the hobby. When the physical act of cleaning the body can be uncomfortable (high skin sensitivity): these folk may need a higher dose of empathy in that regard. It does not come easy. Something to keep in mind.
- My own personal "problem", when I get into a good painting session for a few hours, you keep your arms down and possibly clamped shut the whole time. My wife calls them "the hobby pits of doom", there is nothing to save those armpits other than a shower and scrubbing.
As a side note, we just recently had a new MTG release and gaming started at midnight on Fri/Sat, I had the "pleasant" experience of walking into a room in the morning of some 40 people who have been up all night drinking energy drinks, coffee, spicy food and had smoke breaks.
It was like hitting a wall and I am a guy who grew up on a farm. The washroom needed to be burned to the ground.
I guess I can say as the original OP said, the majority of people are good, there is typically a horde of mitigating circumstances I think at work for the remainder.
I think these are all fair points. and of course concessions should be made. I think this is more for those around (extremely rare they may be) who just disregard their hygiene entirely and have gone noseblind so don't notice.
techsoldaten wrote: Good to have it all on hand to loan your opponent for those times things get all Nurgly.
We had this one player at my FLGS who would pop zits on his face during games then touch his opponent's models. Everyone was too polite to tell him to stop. For a while, I was carrying Purell, 70% Isopropyl and Cotton Swabs as a hard counter.
I commend your preparations.
Few are prepared to face a Nurgle champion.
I suspect hygiene is within your top 5 of importance in daily affairs.
For some, it may be in the bottom 20 so would not "warrant" that degree of foresight.
Heck, I keep thinking I should be clean, got an office job and all... still surprised on occasion when one becomes less than fresh.
I now bring in a tote of stuff just for working on models (keep me and my son supplied) which seems like alot, I suppose I can replace my winter survival kit with a stench mitigation kit in the van and pull in as needed (good for anywhere and the inevitable coffee spills).
<edit> All these people need is a breed of dog known for a strong sense of smell.
The darn dog has almost lifted me off the floor with the nose-probe in the nether regions when dealing with food that has not agreed with me OR a really hard day of sweating.
My oldest is starting to stink, so this sort of thing is really on my radar. Usually I try to make sure I get in a quick shower before heading out, wearing clean-clothes not smeared with grossness, and it's something I'll have to teach him. He's already dis-satisfied with the notion of showering more than twice a week...
Nurglitch wrote: My oldest is starting to stink, so this sort of thing is really on my radar. Usually I try to make sure I get in a quick shower before heading out, wearing clean-clothes not smeared with grossness, and it's something I'll have to teach him. He's already dis-satisfied with the notion of showering more than twice a week...
Caught my eldest in bathrobe and towel wrapped around his head after a "shower"... did not typically do that, took it off him under much protests and the hair was bone-dry: he faked his shower. Threats of scrubbing them myself and sitting there to witness proper washing technique embarrassed him into compliance, I will still check though.
Twice a week is happening AND immediately after every sport event: martial arts, hockey and any school Phys-Ed events.
Another thing: braces. Those suckers need a power washer and disinfectant I swear.
Giving a kiss goodnight can bring the wrong tears to daddy's eyes when the brushing was not done or not done well.
Time he will never get back but we all need a little mercy.
There is a small, yet important difference between a teenage boy smelling of what a teenage boy smells of, and the unholy nostril assault that can come from some individuals.
There are a small collection of such individuals (3-4 of them) round my way who are responsible for the local gaming stores all keeping a couple of cans of deodorant out the back. The smell was so offensive that they were losing custom.
I will always give leniency to someone who might have done a full day of manual labour on a hot day, who has at least brought along some deodorant.
The issue is with the people who show up week in, week out with that distinctive 'festering' smell.
Somebody was so extremely offended about how he is being discriminated against because he takes medication which causes B/O. Made for an entertaining read.
techsoldaten wrote: We had this one player at my FLGS who would pop zits on his face during games then touch his opponent's models. Everyone was too polite to tell him to stop. For a while, I was carrying Purell, 70% Isopropyl and Cotton Swabs as a hard counter.
I'd have a cigar cutter. Touch my ladies or dudes with that gak on your hands and you lose a finger.
Also one of those extendo boxing gloves so he could have a slap whenever he started picking his zits, because feth no.
Ah yes, now we come to the point in the thread where people start talking about all the violence they would inflict upon the gross TFGs, because the awkward boasting about how capable they are at basic cleanliness wasn't cringe-worthy enough yet. Can we put this trainwreck of a thread out of its misery yet?
The phenomenon of Nerd Funk is in no way limited to 40k/wargaming. I actually had to ban a player from one of my D&D campaigns because he refused to bathe before coming over to my apartment. I asked him politely on multiple occasions, but he (no joke) said something about not wanting to conform to society's standards of appearance and hygiene.
EnTyme wrote: The phenomenon of Nerd Funk is in no way limited to 40k/wargaming. I actually had to ban a player from one of my D&D campaigns because he refused to bathe before coming over to my apartment. I asked him politely on multiple occasions, but he (no joke) said something about not wanting to conform to society's standards of appearance and hygiene.
Gotta love those bizarre excuses...that's up there with someone who mispronounces a word, and when mentioned, responds with "Well that's just how I say it!". Sure thing guy...
Peregrine wrote: Ah yes, now we come to the point in the thread where people start talking about all the violence they would inflict upon the gross TFGs, because the awkward boasting about how capable they are at basic cleanliness wasn't cringe-worthy enough yet. Can we put this trainwreck of a thread out of its misery yet?
Brah, we're talking about a person who picks their zits at the table and wipes the gak on your models. I've killed for less.
Spoiler:
DISCLAIMER: At no point has BBAP ever killed anyone for any reason, nor does he plan to start no matter how much sebaceous crap a person may wipe on his models. In the situation previously described, BBAP would not in fact advocate the amputation of an offender's fingers using a cigar cutter, and would instead suggest talking to the person about his wretched behaviour so that he knows it makes you uncomfortable (supposing it does indeed do that). If said individual continued to engage in his foulness BBAP would advocate direct action - not in the form of violence, but rather a swift concession of the game followed by a packing up of models, leaving the table, and never playing the offending entity again. BBAP does not advocate nor practise violence.
Also nobody is crowing about their ability to practise basic hygiene, and many people are offering suggestions for dealing with offending individuals without necessarily having to turf them out of an event. Did you miss that bit in your rush to judge everyone else responding to this thread? The bit where I said "he was a nice guy and I wish I hadn't had to chuck him"?
Why am I even asking? Of course you missed it, because you're not interested in engaging with the discussion - all you want to do is bitch and moan and judge because people are talking about something you don't think they should be. What an ass.
Grimtuff wrote: Perri- champion of the unwashed masses or internet contrarian? You decide...
Champion of the unwashed masses. The alternative is "whiny contrarian narcissist" which is far less interesting.
I wonder if these much maligned individuals with dubious body odor being ranted about have mental, physical or psychological conditions that have led to this condition/behaviour.
Meh, we all come across unpleasantness in life, best to carry on as best we can and leave the judgement behind.
Peregrine wrote: Ah yes, now we come to the point in the thread where people start talking about all the violence they would inflict upon the gross TFGs, because the awkward boasting about how capable they are at basic cleanliness wasn't cringe-worthy enough yet. Can we put this trainwreck of a thread out of its misery yet?
Brah, we're talking about a person who picks their zits at the table and wipes the gak on your models. I've killed for less.
Spoiler:
DISCLAIMER: At no point has BBAP ever killed anyone for any reason, nor does he plan to start no matter how much sebaceous crap a person may wipe on his models. In the situation previously described, BBAP would not in fact advocate the amputation of an offender's fingers using a cigar cutter, and would instead suggest talking to the person about his wretched behaviour so that he knows it makes you uncomfortable (supposing it does indeed do that). If said individual continued to engage in his foulness BBAP would advocate direct action - not in the form of violence, but rather a swift concession of the game followed by a packing up of models, leaving the table, and never playing the offending entity again. BBAP does not advocate nor practise violence.
Also nobody is crowing about their ability to practise basic hygiene, and many people are offering suggestions for dealing with offending individuals without necessarily having to turf them out of an event. Did you miss that bit in your rush to judge everyone else responding to this thread? The bit where I said "he was a nice guy and I wish I hadn't had to chuck him"?
Why am I even asking? Of course you missed it, because you're not interested in engaging with the discussion - all you want to do is bitch and moan and judge because people are talking about something you don't think they should be. What an ass.
Grimtuff wrote: Perri- champion of the unwashed masses or internet contrarian? You decide...
Champion of the unwashed masses. The alternative is "whiny contrarian narcissist" which is far less interesting.
Dude, tone down your testosterone like 40%. Nobody likes an internet poster who's ragey, and they like to game with guys like that even less. I'd almost rather pus-boy.
Do these threads ever help anybody? Is some person who bathes less than once a month going to read this "PSA" and change? Here's a tip: if someone stinks, tell that person to his face, instead of being an Internet Tough Guy.
I don't think anyone should be forced to let someone with a serious odor problem into an event or their home, but I don't see what any of this has to do with 40K.
Dear people that don't like BO and want people to wash constantly despite it being utterly unnatural:
That's our hobby and we won't stop. You have all the other hobbies if you want to.
Love, XOXO.
(Mostly being a contrarian but seeing all that unanimity except for Peregrine was annoying )
Talizvar wrote: Okay, some observations or notes, especially from a dad that showers every day and has two young teenage boys:
- Young men will smell, no matter what deodorant used and showering twice a day. It is the nature of the beast. (http://www.momjunction.com/articles/body-odor-problems-in-teens_00353333/#gref)
- Many of these games are held during the evening and there would be little or no time to clean-up after work, the dude could be a welder so you also have sweaty leather stink (much like hockey gear stink).
- Usually you have to fit in grabbing some food on the way, some may not think to hold off on onion or garlic.
- Most places we game in are rather small... not much volume of air or air-flow so it only gets worse. They may have smelt fine when they got in... not so much later.
- Speaking of that, poor climate control, how many times have those areas seemed too hot?
- Between family I have and people I know, there are a fair number of people who fall in the spectrum of Autism who play the hobby. When the physical act of cleaning the body can be uncomfortable (high skin sensitivity): these folk may need a higher dose of empathy in that regard. It does not come easy. Something to keep in mind.
- My own personal "problem", when I get into a good painting session for a few hours, you keep your arms down and possibly clamped shut the whole time. My wife calls them "the hobby pits of doom", there is nothing to save those armpits other than a shower and scrubbing.
As a side note, we just recently had a new MTG release and gaming started at midnight on Fri/Sat, I had the "pleasant" experience of walking into a room in the morning of some 40 people who have been up all night drinking energy drinks, coffee, spicy food and had smoke breaks.
It was like hitting a wall and I am a guy who grew up on a farm. The washroom needed to be burned to the ground.
I guess I can say as the original OP said, the majority of people are good, there is typically a horde of mitigating circumstances I think at work for the remainder.
The smell of sweat, especially if it's 'fresh' isn't an issue. Same thing if you've been stuck under the office heater for several hours, or you have a musk. You can tell the difference between someone who bathes, but is sweaty now, and someone who treats soap as a warcrime. The issue is the few who don't bathe, who pick their noses and try to pick up your figures, or like the zit popper.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Dear people that don't like BO and want people to wash constantly despite it being utterly unnatural:
That's our hobby and we won't stop. You have all the other hobbies if you want to.
Love, XOXO.
(Mostly being a contrarian but seeing all that unanimity except for Peregrine was annoying )
Not looking after personal hygiene is a major red flag for clinical depression. Maybe 40k gaming is what is getting some of these people out of bed, maybe not but a little empathy and kindness goes a long way. Not saying one can't say anything to people but if you're a dick about it then you're actually likely worse than the person you're attacking. And many people will judge appropriately.
Pink Horror wrote: Do these threads ever help anybody? Is some person who bathes less than once a month going to read this "PSA" and change? Here's a tip: if someone stinks, tell that person to his face, instead of being an Internet Tough Guy.
I don't think anyone should be forced to let someone with a serious odor problem into an event or their home, but I don't see what any of this has to do with 40K.
Well here's one who had 2nd thoughts about how I might smell. Nobody has said flat out anything so not sure but then again I do have habit of sweating so...And having to walk ~3km with big bag full of models and books isn't likely helping situation so...
Somebody mentioned bringing in extra t-shirt along which is doable plan. One extra t-shirt for the ~3-4h before it gets changed(gym will obviously make me sweaty enough that I'll be taking shower and fresh change right away obviously ) isn't unreasonable.
So who knows? Not sure was I issue but if I was I'll be taking more precautions that are reasonable(shower&wash before is flat out not possible).
Just a heads up: If anyone is struggling to find a deodorant that they can use/is effective, LUSH sell solid deodorant bars that mainly consist of natural ingredients. They have some in powder forms too, and both seem very useful for if you have any skin irritations that normal deodorants can cause to flare up
Dai wrote: Not looking after personal hygiene is a major red flag for clinical depression. Maybe 40k gaming is what is getting some of these people out of bed, maybe not but a little empathy and kindness goes a long way. Not saying one can't say anything to people but if you're a dick about it then you're actually likely worse than the person you're attacking. And many people will judge appropriately.
That's an interesting point. There's a way to talk to someone about their hygiene that doesn't result in them feeling like a leper.
My gaming bag contains hygiene products, which are not really there for me. I've pulled up next to someone and said, hey, thought you could use this. Take care of yourself, the game will still be here.
As long as someone knows you care, they're not going to take it as an accusation. There are a lot of factors behind bad hygiene, I've run into people who are between homes, work in sanitation / butcher shops, just stepped in something on the way to the FLGS.
Peregrine wrote: Can we put this trainwreck of a thread out of its misery yet?
But this is another kick at the can for dispelling the myth that gamers are funky smelling people who scoff at social norms of cleanliness!
Pretty sure you notice this to happen pretty much anywhere, all you have to do is spend a couple hours in a poorly ventilated room with enough people.
I find it hard enough to enforce game rules nevermind someone's hygiene.
Spending some time in a pig farm and coming for a visit to the FLGS would set a new standard for many (the stink gets right into your hair... it is incredible how it permeates).
Well, I suppose it is not quite like going to a play but some cleaning up is warranted no matter what arguments we choose to make.
When I worked as a GW Till Monkey, I had to have words with a handful of customers on different occasions.
And do you know, it's a difficult subject to approach. You need to be firm with them. Sadly, some smells are genuinely completely unacceptable, especially in a shop that's trying to make a buck. But you also need to be polite about it. And it's rare you can have said quiet word in a one man store without some form of audience.
Some genuinely don't realise they're a bit whiffy. Consider the young teenager. Hormones are raging, and they're possibly properly sweating for the first time in their lives. Kids don't tend to be that smelly. It's quite possible it hasn't occurred to their parents to suggest deodorant.
Some get it, and genuinely improve. Some just don't.
Everyone keeps bringing up ASD and how the hobby might attract people who are in it, but I find it hard to believe that there are so many that you'd have to second guess.
I've played two people who actually are on the ASD, and they were probably the cleanest amongst the group.
In general the people I find that bring in a funk are those that hit that 'socially off' spectrum. They didn't clean up before hitting town because they generally don't think about it. Not because they forgot, only because it's a habit they formed. Sort of 'shut in' to the point they live in a way that there's no one aroumd them to remind them to shower this week.
I've had my moments. Once during a tourney in a hot room I hit up a dollar store across the street and nabbed a shirt because I was sweating. My service has made me almost nervous about my general appearence or smell. Plus with three kids I've become very aware of odours.
I had a friend like this. He smoked, drank constantly, and usually forgot to shower before work. We were going to drive out to a tourney and i said 'bro hit the showers you reek like a dive bar'. He didnt think of it sinply because theres in general no one else around him to tell him he stinks.
I think the introvert who hasn't interacted with society in a couple weeks is far more likely than someone who is in the ASD.
Peregrine wrote: Can we put this trainwreck of a thread out of its misery yet?
But this is another kick at the can for dispelling the myth that gamers are funky smelling people who scoff at social norms of cleanliness!
Pretty sure you notice this to happen pretty much anywhere, all you have to do is spend a couple hours in a poorly ventilated room with enough people.
I find it hard enough to enforce game rules nevermind someone's hygiene.
Spending some time in a pig farm and coming for a visit to the FLGS would set a new standard for many (the stink gets right into your hair... it is incredible how it permeates).
Well, I suppose it is not quite like going to a play but some cleaning up is warranted no matter what arguments we choose to make.
What? No, only nerds stiink. Oh, except me. All the other nerds need to go take a shower
In a less sarcastic tone, I don't think I've ever met anyone in the context of a game store that fits the hyperbole either. Daytime games, evenings, as a teen or adult man-thing. Seen far more incidents with hobbyists and sharp tools than any overwhelming cases of Nurgle's Rot. Had to endure more people like that in uni seminars.
OK while I do shower and wear clean clothes on a regular basis for all my day to day activities (except in the bush, I'm a hunter/trapper/fisher/tree burner) I do try to let the hair on my neck grow before going to any event. For good luck. And because I giggle at the neckbeard comments. Not saying that I'd now intentionally show up funky because I get a kick out of toying with shallow inconsequential concerns. I'm just saying.
OrkaMorka wrote: Everyone keeps bringing up ASD and how the hobby might attract people who are in it, but I find it hard to believe that there are so many that you'd have to second guess.
I've played two people who actually are on the ASD, and they were probably the cleanest amongst the group.
Nobody brought up ASD in relation to bad smells, it was brought up as a possible explanation for people who are bad/awkward in their social interactions.
The current gaming club I'm a part of has literally zero people along the usual "smelly" spectrum. From the mum and daughter who play to the oldest beardy man, it's generally very pleasant in our small room!
Now, I used to go to a FLGS in a nearby city (but stopped due to time/distance constraints) that had their fair share of... Funky smells. From my observation, it was 100% the card players, as everyone else was pretty good.
OrkaMorka wrote: Everyone keeps bringing up ASD and how the hobby might attract people who are in it, but I find it hard to believe that there are so many that you'd have to second guess.
I've played two people who actually are on the ASD, and they were probably the cleanest amongst the group.
Nobody brought up ASD in relation to bad smells, it was brought up as a possible explanation for people who are bad/awkward in their social interactions.
Actually I did on page 2:
"- Between family I have and people I know, there are a fair number of people who fall in the spectrum of Autism who play the hobby. When the physical act of cleaning the body can be uncomfortable (high skin sensitivity): these folk may need a higher dose of empathy in that regard. It does not come easy. Something to keep in mind. " It is a subject I keep coming across on the autism boards.
Once the cleanliness functions are established as a routine, they can be the cleanest kids around... the trick is getting them there.
Now for prevalence in population, for someone would fall under the spectrum at about 1% (http://www.autism-society.org/what-is/facts-and-statistics/ 2014 stats).
The attraction is the rules.
They are written down and people are supposed to follow them.
No strange social unwritten rules to figure out.
You will see a disproportionate number of these folk who love gaming.
My son plays MTG and D&D and loves it and has ADHD as well as "High Functioning Autism" however they like to say it.
I would say being a teenager is more challenging than anything else.
I have to remind on occasion of the "rules" when spending extended time with people needs.
There are many people who are also undiagnosed so again, something to keep in mind for tolerance.
I can appreciate that, but tolerence ends when you begin to interfear with my pleasure and enjoyment of a hobby, everyone gets one.
Call me cold hearted and intolerant, but if you infringe on my free time, and my hobby and enjoyment, and begin to crap up my very limited time I have to relax and enjoy myself, I will kindly tell you there is an issue once, after that piss off. Someone has autism or what ever and end up having some nervous tick, or send weird quark that's annoying but not interfering with my fine. If you smell like hot garbage leave.
Thankfully, I don't think I've had this experience at my local GW. I think one time, a guy didn't smell all that great, but I was able to avoid him most of the time I was there. Was he terribly offensive... I wouldn't say so. He was unpleasant, but not unbearable.
Now, back when I was playing MTG, that was WAY different. There was a father and son pair that were there every Friday Night Magic that obviously did not bathe but once per week at most. My word, they smelled terrible. People would leave the play area (seats 80 people... massive) because those two smelled so badly.
Now, we get to even more fun. So, at that same location, I played D&D Encounters (when it was still around... hate that WotC pulled that as it's the only way I could possibly play with my current schedule). Our DM was really good. Only a couple of times did our group come up with a situation or line in a conversation that he didn't immediately have a great response to. BUT... he worked at McDonald's and definitely had no sense of personal hygiene. He smelled horrible. To make it doubly worse, he had no teeth. To make it triply worse, he would have to tear his food up into small pieces (getting it all over his hands) so that he could place it in his mouth in a place where he could gum it to death and eat with what little tooth-like protrusions were left (again getting it all over his hands). THEN... THEN, he would go and touch our miniatures on the map without wiping his hands off. UGH!
ServiceGames wrote: BUT... he worked at McDonald's and definitely had no sense of personal hygiene. He smelled horrible. To make it doubly worse, he had no teeth. To make it triply worse, he would have to tear his food up into small pieces (getting it all over his hands) so that he could place it in his mouth in a place where he could gum it to death and eat with what little tooth-like protrusions were left (again getting it all over his hands). THEN... THEN, he would go and touch our miniatures on the map without wiping his hands off. UGH!
That's actually awful. I just wouldn't be able to play like that, especially the model touching.
Backspacehacker wrote: I can appreciate that, but tolerence ends when you begin to interfear with my pleasure and enjoyment of a hobby, everyone gets one.
Call me cold hearted and intolerant, but if you infringe on my free time, and my hobby and enjoyment, and begin to crap up my very limited time I have to relax and enjoy myself, I will kindly tell you there is an issue once, after that piss off. Someone has autism or what ever and end up having some nervous tick, or send weird quark that's annoying but not interfering with my fine. If you smell like hot garbage leave.
Well, you are definitely channeling into the "lizard brain" end of things that I feel myself: my play time is short and therefore precious.
It is very easy to say I would not tolerate any discomfort to my recreation.
Like with any social interaction, it is acceptable to give preference to those you most enjoy playing with so some of this particular issue can be avoided.
One small problem: it is their time too and some discomforts are part and parcel in choosing to play a social game.
The real kicker is tournaments or say organized play like the MTG Friday nights: you may have no choice of opponent.
It may even be a worthwhile thing to suggest how the experience could be made better if certain social graces are attended to.
In some cases, blunt and intolerant behavior can be more offensive than a person's smell.
We all have our challenges that need work, sometimes we need a "polite" reminder.
I would strongly suggest not using the line "I stank less working at the pig farm." on someone like I did in one of my less stellar moments (onions, unwashed armpit, possibly laundry left wet too long before drying and a finishing touch of halitosis of an eye watering nature [braces not cleaned I think] at a GW shop).
In my experience, this sort of issue has never come up in the miniature games circles I frequent, but it's rampant among Norwegian MtG players. I usually attend the annual board games convention in Oslo, and you can tell by the smell which floor is set aside for MtG.
On a similar note, I've known a number of board gamers with deviant grooming/personal hygiene habits, because the board gaming scene tend to attract people with atypical social skills and/or alternative attitudes to hygiene and living standards.
The most funky guy I've ever played regularly was basically homeless, on principle, which would have made asking him to shower more difficult. I would describe him as smelling like dead cats, but it was probably just sweat and marijuana. He was eventually deported, but for other reasons.
Sure thing guy...
