Genoside07 wrote: Ouch... the conversion boxes are $50 each and have to wait till September to get it
Unless I want to get killed at Gen Con trying to buy a box
And I'm guessing anyone with an extensive collection is going to require more than one box to fully update their collection.
I'm sort of glad my x-wing group fell apart now.
Not if the squadron builder stuff goes online, and certainly not for casual play. One copy of a card for reference and then cut out some paper markers for the rest, or simply write the list down.
Yeah, most likely with dials, deck and dice unless there are major changes I'll be good. Chances of me getting with 12 parsecs of a tournament are low...
Genoside07 wrote: Ouch... the conversion boxes are $50 each and have to wait till September to get it
Unless I want to get killed at Gen Con trying to buy a box
And I'm guessing anyone with an extensive collection is going to require more than one box to fully update their collection.
I'm sort of glad my x-wing group fell apart now.
Not if the squadron builder stuff goes online, and certainly not for casual play. One copy of a card for reference and then cut out some paper markers for the rest, or simply write the list down.
You're also going to need new maneuver dials, base inserts and, in some cases, bases (there's a new medium size for stuff like the Punisher.)
As someone on my club's FB page has already noted, to run a traditional TIE swarm you'd need two conversion boxes, or a good printer, a sharp knife and a lot of patience. Side note, TIEs appear to have a bullseye arc now.
I've said I'd be happy to pay to update to a 2nd edition, and I stand by that, but if it feels like these conversion packs are double dipping on existing customers rather than providing the people who've helped get the ga,e where it is a means to keep playing, I may well drop the whole game altogether. But that's 6 months away, lots of water to run under a lot of bridges between now and then.
As someone on my club's FB page has already noted, to run a traditional TIE swarm you'd need two conversion boxes, or a good printer, a sharp knife and a lot of patience. Side note, TIEs appear to have a bullseye arc now.
They are demanding that we buy the new Core set, so with that you'll end up with enough dials to run 6 TIEs. That's been the appropriate number for long enough I don't think its a bad call. The traditional swarms were largely a result of a lack of options. I notice with my own collection the number of duplicates of things I have drops sharply after Wave 4 and honestly this going to be a good time to offload stuff I have too many of to be worth it.
I still have trouble comprehending that the Imperial pack has the components for 3 Decimators but only 2 Defenders, 2 Star Wings and 4 TIEs (and to a lesser extent 3 Aggressors - though I fully understand that's more of a personal thing because most people wouldn't have bought 4 of them like I did).
Don't forget the app! You know, the app that you will need to actually play the game now? The app that will be required at all official X-Wing events? The app that will make or break the game if they frak it up?
The game has been in need of an overhaul for a while now. Let's see what FFG does!
One the one hand the App is a nice idea as it permits all kinds of neat balancing to happen. On the down side when support for the game finally gets dropped there will be no possible way to play it as all the points values will be gone. Maybe that's a bit too forward looking however...
I hate the idea of an app needed to play as I don't own a smart device...
So Turrets have changed,
ordnance is now multi shot with the number of uses on the card, force abilities are in,
squadron abilities maybe in,
medium bases are in,
all ships gain the bullseye arc,
the phases have been renamed to make things clearer (hopefully).
Upgrades are now limited to specific pilots.
Multi actions at once are a thing without cards like PTL.
Actions can now cause stress.
Wave 14 stuff is multi edition.
Reserves are now a thing with new placement options.
Some titles and abilities are now baked into the ship.
Scuurg and Firespray are now Scum only.
Looks like regenerate is now an action.
Pilot skill have gone down accross the board.
Resistance and FO are now their own uniqu factions.
Like the looks of it so far (beyond the app) but not liking $350 US just to update my ships.
Automatically Appended Next Post: New templates are easier to sort bumps.
Revamp of the organised play system (mostly just renaming stuff seemingly).
200pts system, though we cant tell that because nothing is costed on the card because that's now on the app only (except for GW like power levels).
Automatically Appended Next Post: New Y-Wing and Fang fighter models with the core set X-Wing being the new moveable wings one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lambda finally gets a rear arc!
Automatically Appended Next Post: And a new damage deck so the new core is a must.
I'll agree that only having the app seems foolish. Put the squad values in a .pdf where you can get them without a smart phone and it should be OK, though. Would require updates for fine tuning.
So, some good stuff definitely, cleaning up the bloated mess that the rules have become, improving balance, and apparently scaling back some of the power/complexity creep and dice inflation that has become a problem. Most of it seems ok, or at least ok enough that I'm willing to give it a try before I dislike it. But there are definitely some things I am not happy with:
1) App-only list building is so ing stupid. One of X-Wing's biggest strengths has been the fact that everything you need for a card is printed on the card itself. Need to know what upgrades you have? Read your card. Need the point costs? Read the cards. No flipping through rulebooks, no trying to remember rules because your phone died and you can't get the rules app. Now that's gone and you're going to be spending way too much time on the app instead of playing the game. And even worse is the hints about different costs in different tournament formats, bans/rotations, etc. Stupid gimmick formats need to die, not be encouraged. I'm afraid that list building is going to become far more of a mess and for negligible gain.
2) The pre-made ships are fine, but dammit FFG they had better stay a newbie teaching thing. Building your own squad is a key part of the game, both in fun and strategy. The idea that was mentioned of the pre-made ships being used for organized play events needs to die, now. It's a really stupid idea and the community needs to collectively say "NO".
3) I'm disappointed that the biggest problem with the core rules was not addressed at all: coupling accuracy and firepower. You can't make a ship more likely to hit without also making it deal more damage, which puts ships like the a-wing at a huge disadvantage and makes clumsy bombers with their 4-dice weapons the best counter to aces instead of the slow big-stuff killers they should be. It kind of "works" if you scale back the dice inflation, and maybe 2.0 will be like the early days of the game where coupling wasn't that big an issue and it kind of worked out about right in the end. But it puts the game in a dangerous situation where dice inflation can quickly put us right back to the current problem, and dice inflation is a very difficult problem to avoid.
4) I am concerned about the nerfs to shields ("we need to make crits matter") and apparently to HP regen (R2-D2 being much weaker and limited to three uses). In the current game rebel regen is the counter to imperial arc dodging and token piles: rebel ships take damage but repair it, imperial ships never take damage. Both have their strengths, and both are viable endgame strategies. But if you kill off regen as an endgame strategy while not imposing a similar nerf on the imperial side you completely break imperial aces. Granted, the changes so far seem to be a nerf to token stacking, but if Soontir Fel keeps his current arc dodging ability it won't matter. You can't hit something that isn't in arc, especially with turrets getting a massive nerf. So you end up with a game where rebel ships will eventually lose any game that goes more than a few turns, while imperial players can have their aces stick around forever. And that is not balanced or fun.
5) I'm not convinced on the PS changes. Yeah, VI was a problem, but it was also the only thing allowing lower-PS ships to exist at all. Now you simply get out maneuvered if you don't bring PS 6. And encouraging ties makes initiative far more important, driving ridiculous bids. IMO the PS system needed more of a fix than this seems to be, and I'm not convinced that the new system is an improvement.
6) I'm also not convinced on the action economy nerfs. Yeah, PTL was an auto-take a lot of the time, but it was also the only thing that allowed a diverse action bar to matter. If using a repositioning action (or action upgrade, etc) means giving up on dice modification it encourages no-outcome exchanges where you boost/BR out of arc but can't return fire effectively and the turn is wasted. And it increases the value of jousting ships that mindlessly line up and exchange dice, since focusing is still the best action when you joust effectively. And as bad as arc dodgers can be currently driving the game in the direction of BBBBZ style jousting lists is a really dumb idea.
On your number 4 Peregrine, the designers have said the change to how barrel rolls work is intended to limit the effectiveness of arc dodging.
Personally I really like the change to how multiple actions work as it makes it a real toss up between what actions/stress actions you can/want to take and when.
Also Evade Tokens now change one Green Dice result to an Evade, rather than just flat out adding an additional Evade result, so token stacking won't be enitely as powerful.
ingtaer wrote: On your number 4 Peregrine, the designers have said the change to how barrel rolls work is intended to limit the effectiveness of arc dodging.
Personally I really like the change to how multiple actions work as it makes it a real toss up between what actions/stress actions you can/want to take and when.
It's a limit, but not a very significant one. You're talking about a quarter ship base worth of difference, perpendicular to the primary direction of the barrel roll. The left/right displacement, the main reason you do it, is unchanged. And if you want forward displacement boosting is also unchanged.
1) App-only list building is so ing stupid. One of X-Wing's biggest strengths has been the fact that everything you need for a card is printed on the card itself. Need to know what upgrades you have? Read your card. Need the point costs? Read the cards. No flipping through rulebooks, no trying to remember rules because your phone died and you can't get the rules app. Now that's gone and you're going to be spending way too much time on the app instead of playing the game. And even worse is the hints about different costs in different tournament formats, bans/rotations, etc. Stupid gimmick formats need to die, not be encouraged. I'm afraid that list building is going to become far more of a mess and for negligible gain.
This could be a major problem in rural america where a lot of gamers are; cell phone reception is a major thing and most game shops do not supply free wi fi.. I really don't like this either... I play the table top games to put down my phone for an hour or two.. Now I need it
as a part of a game.. GW did something like this with their points I understand but they supplied it in a physical copy.. App building should be an option, not a requirement.
The App is goint to be a problem if done the wrong way
but the FAQ says App/Website and as long as doing the list at home and print it out is possible everything is ok
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I still have trouble comprehending that the Imperial pack has the components for 3 Decimators but only 2 Defenders, 2 Star Wings and 4 TIEs (and to a lesser extent 3 Aggressors - though I fully understand that's more of a personal thing because most people wouldn't have bought 4 of them like I did).
See also the Rebels 2 Sabine's Ties and 4 Headhunters to 2 X-Wings.
A new edition should be an improvement.. a number of the new updates make me concerned..
If a new version is done wrong it can kill a once popular game... "I am looking at you 40k epic"
But I have most of the existing ships and 1st edition works okay as long as you are aware of the cheese
factor of some builds.. Mostly basement game anyway so don't worry about crazy lists like I would see
in the tournament ring.
Does the App need to be always on? Surely it will be a set of rules stored on your device and only need a connection for software updates. You shouldn't need a connection in the shop you are playing in.
Given that you only need the app to build the list, and then all the rules are on the cards, if you're playing people you trust you shouldn't need it at all.
(looks shiftily at Flinty)
Why yes, those 3 x-wings, 2 b-wings and Millennium Falcon are well within points. In fact I have a 25 pt initiative bid. Sorry, the wifi's broken...
Flinty wrote: Does the App need to be always on? Surely it will be a set of rules stored on your device and only need a connection for software updates. You shouldn't need a connection in the shop you are playing in.
Yeah, the app should only need a connection when updating. It shouldn't need an active connection at the shop. I play Warmachine/Malifaux/X-Wing/40k/Guild Ball/Infinity off my Wi-Fi only tablet all the time without a Wi-Fi network at the shop. This isn't groundbreaking stuff.
I'm super excited about the second edition. Not so much about needing an App to play, but whatever. Tings I'm excited about:
1. Revamping all the ships and balancing them across the board. So no more power creep, at least for the time being. Essentially leveling the playing field.
2. Consolidating all the rules and giving newer mechanics to older ships where it makes sense.
3. Changing core mechanics to make it more about flying well then what you brought.
I am not, however, looking forward to buying two of each conversion kit at minimum to get all my stuff up to snuff for the new edition. I'll have to do that sparingly over time.
Yeah the fact is though, not everyone owns a smartphone and tablet. And yes even if there is a .pdf, you're still adding a whole book on top of what could just be printed on the card. And I still have a feeling that this 'app' is not going to be 'free' as much as 'f2p' and if you want it to really work it'll be a monthly fee. (either there will be ads that you have to pay for to get rid of, or the fee to cover all the ships otherwise you might have only say, X-wings and Ties in the FREE version. )
I am not, however, looking forward to buying two of each conversion kit at minimum to get all my stuff up to snuff for the new edition. I'll have to do that sparingly over time.
Just buy one. I'd be very surprised if you regularly use each ship you have access to currently. No reason to buy more until you actually decided you want to use it.
KingmanHighborn wrote: Yeah the fact is though, not everyone owns a smartphone and tablet. And yes even if there is a .pdf, you're still adding a whole book on top of what could just be printed on the card. And I still have a feeling that this 'app' is not going to be 'free' as much as 'f2p' and if you want it to really work it'll be a monthly fee. (either there will be ads that you have to pay for to get rid of, or the fee to cover all the ships otherwise you might have only say, X-wings and Ties in the FREE version. )
The grumpy negative bit (eg the majority) of my grey matter had a similar thought that there will be a purchaseable faction pack upgrade a la War Room for WMH
Added this to the N&R thread but adding here for completeness;
Spoiler:
Calculate was confirmed today to be a droid based action. It is a weaker focus, only can change 1 focus result to a hit or evade, but there will likely be ways to get multiples of them through abilities and upgrades.
Force charges regenerate 1 at the end phase.
Vader's ability is that he can use a force charge to perform another action, and can keep doing this so long as he has force charges. So he could at most perform 4 actions a turn if you want him to.
Good tokens (green and blue) are beneficial, bad tokens (red and orange) are harmful. Blue and Red tokens (Ex. Cloak and Stress) stay on the ship through the rounds until gotten rid of while Green and Orange tokens (Ex. Focus/Evade and Weapons Disabled) are removed at the end of the round. Noted that Round tokens are removed at the end of the round.
Wave 2 and beyond will include new upgrades and cards but some of the stuff in the conversion packs will be in them. BUT, there will be upgrade sets for the rereleased ships for existing players so you don't need to buy the new ship. They haven't come out with any details but they mentioned the possibility to have stuff packed together for the wave in a conversion pack/new ship cards + token pack.
They are readdressing how epic works in 2.0, they want to give it the same amount of love and refinement they have what they have for standard. Mentioned possibly reworking energy or how it works to make it feel more right or more refined. I'd guess we won't be seeing epic 2.0 for a year or more while they do that.
Quick Build Cards will only include upgrades and cards from the expansion they come in and the core set.
Seen in the TC video the core set will come with a template to hold your ship's space for when another ship might go through past them or otherwise be difficult do with the ship there.
Afterburner - After you fully execute (Don't bump) a maneuver speed 3 to 5 you can spend a charge to perform a Boost action even while stressed.
Turrets and Cannons get range bonuses while ordnance doesn't.
Can still use old acrylic templates, but will likely need a speed 1 straight for the barrel rolls. Acrylic tokens are still allowed (so long as same color as new tokens though mostly for ease for new players) Range Rulers are the same too.
Talon Rolls like barrel rolls use the line on the template for the placement of the ship.
NEED A NEW CORE SET. Pilots in the core set don't come in the conversation set, the new damage deck is needed, and the X-Wing in the Core Set is the one seen in the preview, a Red Five - Luke's X-wing.
Asked about different dice, they thought to change it but they wanted to keep the game as simple/steamlined as possible. One where children can learn how to play easily.
No more action bombs/mines.
Medium Base uses large pegs, there are conversion pegs for the smaller ships to be placed on them. Arc-170s confirmed to be Medium ships.
Resistance and First Order Conversion sets will cost less and have more conversions for the ships that are in the faction.
For linked actions, if you cannot perform the linked action you don't get the stress action. Example being the Focus into a Boost and you can't perform the Boost you do the focus action but don't get the stress token. Don't have to say you are doing linked actions, just if you can link into something you get to go into it if you want to.
Evade Tokens convert one die to an evade rather than adding an evade result.
App is free, thought that was pretty obvious but still.
No plan to redo the world champ cards but some ideas from them might be used later on.
Falcon got a significant rework. New mobile double arc like most turrets. But is cheaper, and gotten some things that most large ships won't have access to. It has the Boost action. Dial changed, swapped 1 turns for 3 turns but has more blue maneuvers. Pilot abilities reworked. Han (I think they mentioned involving obstacles) and Lando buffed and Chewie nerfed a little so he can take on crits.
Boost action can't be added to ships as a mod anymore.
Subtitles are there to separate characters. IE Fen Rau for Rebels vs Scum. This allows them to give them new pilot abilities. Garven mentioned to be a ARC-170 pilot. And the possibility to add a new Vader down the line.
Bullseye Arc are only there for abilities and don't have an ability of themself.
Ships that needed help were reworked, ones that were doing fine were mostly fine.
Vader can force charge to perform a different action even if he fails his first action.
New damage deck is the only damage deck for 2.0, old ones can't be used.
Half points on all ships in tournament play, app will show the half points on the list as a reminder.
Obstacles, or at least the asteroids from 1.0 are perfectly fine for 2.0.
Proton Bomb is said to be similar to classic Seismic charge but a Critical damage instead of a normal damage. Bombs and Mines all do automatic damage.
Cloaking pretty much the same as before (+2 Evade, can't attack), decloaking happens during the system phase same as when bombs are dropped.
Deploying ships (Phantom) done during the system phase.
Tie Interceptor is the closest ship to PTL ships in the game, it will have a after you perform an action you can either boost or barrel roll. Can't focus into evade. Fel costs a whole bunch more than base interceptor.
Only a few dials stayed the same. Lambda and Tie fighter dials are the same. Some dials got worse.
Factions will get the same upgrades in the conversion sets, aside from unique ones like named characters and slots that aren't supported by that faction like Astromechs and Illicit Slots.
Won't resculpt most craft, ones they feel need updating will be done or ones that can be given moving mechanics might be updated too.
Core Set comes with 3 Asteroids and 3 Debris Fields.
B-Wings have T-rolls and their dials have been reworked.
YV-666 Party bus is still a thing, but 4-LOM and Zuckuss have been reworked, given charges and limits. YV-666 can reinforce.
Generic named characters "Blue Ace" and the like now have names for Resistance and First Order.
Certain paint schemes will not be the same in reprints, mostly aces stuff it seems.
Scurg isn't a Rebel option anymore. Already said elsewhere but Firespray will no longer be an Imperial option. Scum will likely become the largest faction in the game due to all the options.
Either 3 IG-88s bareboned or 2 IG-88s with a friend can fit into a list.
Resistance will be predominately 2 - 3 ship lists while First Order will likely fly elite smaller swarms.
Reinforce, uses the dashes on the side of the ship. Reduces the total damage by one to a minimum to one.
A-Wings, like the Interceptor can link into a red boost but not link to a barrel roll. They have a native barrel roll. Same stats for their attack, evade, hull, and shields.
TLT, isn't in 2.0.
E-wing said to have some good linked actions, with Corran Horn still likely there.
(Damage card) Damaged Power Regulator - Before you engage you gain an ion token.
Ion tokens make it so the only action you can take is a Focus action, meaning that Droids get hit harder by ion tokens.
R5 astromechs deal with damage cards, discarding damage cards.
Most ships with lots of shields have their shield count reduced and were given more hull.
If a ship is destroyed in the engagement phase it isn't removed until after that initiative has gone. So say your 3 Initiative ship is destroyed by a 3 Initiative ship then you can still attack with it.
Mines can't be reloaded. Reload action reloads one ordnance upgrade rather than everything. Reload only recovers 1 charge for the ordnance you choose.
Sense - Force Ability, lets you see a maneuver dial at range 1, but if you use a force charge can look up to range 3.
Crew with a Force Ranking adds it to the ship flying it, so ships that are Force Sensitive get 1, while FS pilots can increase their value allowing it to refresh at the end of the round.
Some kind of Battle of Yavin bit has been talked about, be it just a classic format for a tournament or the like.
No more Harpoon missiles.
K2S0 hinted at as a pilot.
Total number of attack dice reduced for attack abilities. Some Tie Fighter abilities add one (2 to 3 dice), but crazy ones adding extra dice now add rerolls or the like.
HWK has a primary weapon value.
Jam strips a green token or when you next get a green token you lose it. If you have multiple tokens the person who jams your ship gets to choose which is discarded.
180 degree arcs are still in the game.
Numbers for the ships in the conversion set are based around the number of ships you can run (I assume at best pilots) for standard points. Conversion sets likely taking into account the X-Wing and Tie Fighters that come with the Core Set since you have to buy that for the new damage deck. So feel free to start theory crafting max numbers for standard games.
Barrel roll is to the front, middle or back of the ship using it. Dashes on the side of the 1 straight for Medium and Large ships to use when barrel rolling.
Hue changed slightly for the ship cards to help color blind people distinguish the difference between red and green.
As a small note from an X-Wing unboxing, R2 Astromech doesn't have a restriction while R4 Astromech are limited to small ships. Also, R2 Astromech has R2-D2's ability but limited to 2 charges instead of 3, while R4 Astromech makes your 1-2 basic (turn, bank, straight) maneuvers easier.
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but not all ships will get new sculpts, depends how they feel about it. Possible new paint jobs for existing ships.
Tie Advanced V1s, there is a generic Inquisitor that has a Force Point. Possibility that there might be other generic pilots with Force Points. But generally no upgrades that add Force Points to ships aside from crew.
Points will always be adjusted instead of text adjustments moving forward with pilots, upgrades and the like. They want to keep the text on the cards the same if at all possible.
Fel's ability has been changed. He gets his focus token by getting you in his bullseye arc.
R5 Astromech lets you spend a charge to repair (flip) a crit, or spend an action and charge to remove a (facedown?) damage. 2 Charges.
Expert Handling turns your Red Barrel Rolls actions white.
Ions seems to be a 1 blue straight. So prevents the stress + ion lock on a ship.
Arval can now boost into another ship/bump it and still attack now.
Tie Silencer is getting a resculpt because it was too big and will stay on a small base.
Firespray has a slightly different paint job (brighter green) but same sculpt.
Lambda has new actions, including a Coordinate action.
Y-Wing new sculpt and paint, X-Wing slightly new sculpt with opening/closing S-foils. Core Set is painted up as Red Five, Expansion is painted up as a Red Squadron ship.
Asteroid and Debris obstacles all still work the same as before.
2 new pilots for the Firespray, in the conversion kit.
2 New Y-Wing pilots in the conversion kit, Norra Wexly and one who starts with an E (I think the pilot who replaced Keyan as the survivor at Yavin).
6 languages at launch.
Main take aways for me; The new core set is a must buy for the damage deck.
Force stuff can be had be had through crew.
No Harpoons!
Most importantly for tourney play is that half points applies to all ships!
They are reworking epic.
Overall pretty pleased with all the changes noted, seems like the game should be quicker as ships die easier and if they can retain the faction purity they have promised it should be an easier buy in for new people.
Yeah i'm out. Yes the game has potentially been streamlined but, for me, it's come too late at this stage. not going to be selling my stuff but i'm done. the dismantling (everyone has moved on to other stuff atm) of the local group hasn't helped as well.
I feel bad for my local store which has racks upon racks of X-Wing product that will all be worthless now, since nobody is going to want to impulse buy one or two of those ships unless they already planned on buying a bunch of conversion packs for them.
The app's a great idea but doesn't go far enough - this could have been FFG's chance to get rid of the card system altogether.
Generally speaking, the cards really stack up poorly compared to the traditional army book model, and their main advantage (easy updates for older units) is now totally eclipsed by the app model. Hard to shake the impression that they're going to stick around primarily as a way to force you to buy ships you don't really want. (To be fair, FFG has been less anticonsumer with Runewars and Legion, but the "Epic" ships in X-Wing were more of a cash grab than anything GW's ever done, and really left me with a bad impression of the card system in X-Wing as a whole.)
I feel bad for my local store which has racks upon racks of X-Wing product that will all be worthless now, since nobody is going to want to impulse buy one or two of those ships unless they already planned on buying a bunch of conversion packs for them.
I don't know how it works for gaming, but for other retail products there are times when a manufacturer will get retailers to ship the stock back and repackage it.
Considering how much the value of a ship is the model vs. the printed material that might be the plan?
I am not, however, looking forward to buying two of each conversion kit at minimum to get all my stuff up to snuff for the new edition. I'll have to do that sparingly over time.
Just buy one. I'd be very surprised if you regularly use each ship you have access to currently. No reason to buy more until you actually decided you want to use it.
Well, I frequently switch between factions. I love Rebels, but also thoroughly enjoy Scum and Empire. So I would need at least one of each kit at the start, which is $150.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
captain bloody fists wrote: Yeah i'm out. Yes the game has potentially been streamlined but, for me, it's come too late at this stage. not going to be selling my stuff but i'm done. the dismantling (everyone has moved on to other stuff atm) of the local group hasn't helped as well.
I am not, however, looking forward to buying two of each conversion kit at minimum to get all my stuff up to snuff for the new edition. I'll have to do that sparingly over time.
Just buy one. I'd be very surprised if you regularly use each ship you have access to currently. No reason to buy more until you actually decided you want to use it.
Well, I frequently switch between factions. I love Rebels, but also thoroughly enjoy Scum and Empire. So I would need at least one of each kit at the start, which is $150.
I do think its a good time to focus on a single faction, but I was referring to buying 1 copy of the conversion pack now and just not worrying about running all 4 B-Wings right away. My point is that a lot of the high volumes of ships everyone owns has to do with the lack of variety in the early game (and the general tendency to be a linear DPS race that meant taking as much of the most efficient option possible) With the new edition if you just pick up one conversion box you'll still have way more ships than you can field in a dozen squads most likely. I'm just going to limit myself to the contents of one conversion box to start with. I haven't run more than 2 of anything since like Wave 4 anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NH Gunsmith wrote: I feel bad for my local store which has racks upon racks of X-Wing product that will all be worthless now, since nobody is going to want to impulse buy one or two of those ships unless they already planned on buying a bunch of conversion packs for them.
PP sends stores updated cards for their existing stock when they change editions. Hopefully FFG is aware of the need to do something similar.
I am not, however, looking forward to buying two of each conversion kit at minimum to get all my stuff up to snuff for the new edition. I'll have to do that sparingly over time.
Just buy one. I'd be very surprised if you regularly use each ship you have access to currently. No reason to buy more until you actually decided you want to use it.
Well, I frequently switch between factions. I love Rebels, but also thoroughly enjoy Scum and Empire. So I would need at least one of each kit at the start, which is $150.
I do think its a good time to focus on a single faction, but I was referring to buying 1 copy of the conversion pack now and just not worrying about running all 4 B-Wings right away. My point is that a lot of the high volumes of ships everyone owns has to do with the lack of variety in the early game (and the general tendency to be a linear DPS race that meant taking as much of the most efficient option possible) With the new edition if you just pick up one conversion box you'll still have way more ships than you can field in a dozen squads most likely. I'm just going to limit myself to the contents of one conversion box to start with. I haven't run more than 2 of anything since like Wave 4 anyway.
Well yes, but what if we want to do Epic? I have epic ships that I enjoy running and so does my friend. And I would want to try rebels, then immediately switch over and play Scum too.
I'm gutted I'm going to have learn to line up arcs and roll honest dice rather than 'correct for two' faux grumpage aside the TLT was a clunky take on accuracy vs damage idea that the rules couldn't really cope with but I'll still miss its output of numbing inevitably
Turnip Jedi wrote: I'm gutted I'm going to have learn to line up arcs and roll honest dice rather than 'correct for two' faux grumpage aside the TLT was a clunky take on accuracy vs damage idea that the rules couldn't really cope with but I'll still miss its output of numbing inevitably
I just despised the card. Anyone who played quad TLTs just announced to me that they were a very unskilled or lazy player, and I disliked it.
I am not, however, looking forward to buying two of each conversion kit at minimum to get all my stuff up to snuff for the new edition. I'll have to do that sparingly over time.
Just buy one. I'd be very surprised if you regularly use each ship you have access to currently. No reason to buy more until you actually decided you want to use it.
Well, I frequently switch between factions. I love Rebels, but also thoroughly enjoy Scum and Empire. So I would need at least one of each kit at the start, which is $150.
I do think its a good time to focus on a single faction, but I was referring to buying 1 copy of the conversion pack now and just not worrying about running all 4 B-Wings right away. My point is that a lot of the high volumes of ships everyone owns has to do with the lack of variety in the early game (and the general tendency to be a linear DPS race that meant taking as much of the most efficient option possible) With the new edition if you just pick up one conversion box you'll still have way more ships than you can field in a dozen squads most likely. I'm just going to limit myself to the contents of one conversion box to start with. I haven't run more than 2 of anything since like Wave 4 anyway.
Well yes, but what if we want to do Epic? I have epic ships that I enjoy running and so does my friend. And I would want to try rebels, then immediately switch over and play Scum too.
I play almost exclusively Epic but its been my experience that even there you have far fewer models than I expect. I mean, post new core set I'll own 14 TIEs for now good reason now, but realistically even in Epic I think 6 TIE dials will be plenty. It's not ideal, but hopefully I can offload some of them on new players and frankly I've only used the 12 once and I really should have trimmed my Wave 1-3 era collection back a long time ago.
captain bloody fists wrote: Yeah i'm out. Yes the game has potentially been streamlined but, for me, it's come too late at this stage. not going to be selling my stuff but i'm done. the dismantling (everyone has moved on to other stuff atm) of the local group hasn't helped as well.
If not entirely for the local group, then why?
because imo this has gone a bit too far. don't get me wrong i don't mind some of what they've done but atm i don't particularly want to spend another $200 for conversion kits and a new starter set (thanks to the Australia tax).
I remember a lot of people whining the game didn't look very star warsy anymore. Cause of the power creep and EU ships. I wonder if that's somewhat fixed and we'll see X wings and tie fighters being a staple of the game again.
On FFG forums a Pole has leaked a bunch of cards (which I cant transfer here for some reason, so here is the text);
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/275073-polish-leaks-for-20-with-dodgy-second-hand-translations/ Contents;
Vader (we know what he does).
Soontir Fel (surprisingly lacking chained actions though they do get a boost or roll of the baked in Autothrusters and his ability was spoiled already. Gain a focus if the enemy is in your bullseye arc).
Oicunn (Decimator has both coordinate and reinforce ability is something like can attack an enemy at range 0).
Palpatine crew (When another friendly ship is attacking or defending, you may spend your force token as if this friendly ship just spent a force token).
St-321 title (<...> (coordinate icon), you may <...> in range 0-3 <...> by you <...> if you decide to do so, you may get a target lock on any enemy ship ignoring range restrictions).
Luke gunner crew at the beginning of combat phase you may spend 1 force token to rotate your secondary firing arc. )(.
Jyn Erso crew (<...> ship in range 0-3 <...> focus token <...> it may <...> get 1 evade token).
Ghost title (same as before).
Han Solo (When rolling dice, if you're in range 0-1 from an obstacle, you may reroll all of your dice. It is not treated as a reroll for a purpose of other effects.).
Ezra Bridger in Sheathapeade (same text as original, but ghost coordinate passive is printed as his second ability).
Of course we don't know the costs yet but it gives a very good idea of how the designers have looked at changing the game up, especially Luke and Palps force abilities.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And the Worlds 2018 version2 of Fenn Rau;
The app will be free. Mark my word. They want to make their money on the models, and they want the game to spread. They're not going to nickel and dime us with an app.
I guess you didn't watch the Twitch games from yesterday? They have said the app is 100% free, about a thousand times!
Its about six hours long and is where all the info spoilered above came from;
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/256919901
Holy crap FFG is tearing stuff up! After reading some of the stuff on the FFG site: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/x-wing-second-edition/ They are splitting up First order and Galactic Empire + Rebels and Resistance. Jedi's have their own tokens / abilities now? I had to stop reading the article made my eye twitch with anger and confusion as to why.
Glad I have to pay for FFG's power creep issue they caused. I haven't played competitivly, so I dont know the full hate of current metas. I'll be hopeful that this doesn't ruin the game.
You are lucky you haven't played the competitive meta cause that has ruined the game, Rebels are a complete NPE with turrets, mega bombs, PS 11 coordinate ec.etc.etc. ad. nauseam. The changes to the way turrets work alone is worth the kickstart. But you are not forced to change to V2 if you have no issue with V1 and dot want to play in FFG events.
I suspect the subfaction split is partly balance related, its far easier (in theory) to balance ships/upgrades against a smaller pool and avoid unwanted unintentional interactions (because all the toys all the time ends in Jumpmaster like crazyness)
Turnip Jedi wrote: I suspect the subfaction split is partly balance related, its far easier (in theory) to balance ships/upgrades against a smaller pool and avoid unwanted unintentional interactions (because all the toys all the time ends in Jumpmaster like crazyness)
I'm happy they're making them their own factions. They have plenty of ships to do it, and it reduces potential "soup" lists like Palpatine and Omega Leader, or Rey and Biggs. I welcome the change.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maddok_Death wrote: Holy crap FFG is tearing stuff up! After reading some of the stuff on the FFG site: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/x-wing-second-edition/ They are splitting up First order and Galactic Empire + Rebels and Resistance. Jedi's have their own tokens / abilities now? I had to stop reading the article made my eye twitch with anger and confusion as to why.
Glad I have to pay for FFG's power creep issue they caused. I haven't played competitivly, so I dont know the full hate of current metas. I'll be hopeful that this doesn't ruin the game.
The Jedi have the tokens taken into account with their cost, I can guarantee it. And the mechanic doesn't recharge (albeit certain abilities like Luke's). So, it hardly has that big of an impact on the game. I, for one, am cool with more mechanics being added to the game. Mo' options.
Ahmm, brace yourself, I will say it quick. Prequels. There I said it. Yes the films suck, bad, really bad, really really bad. However their are a lot of really nice ships. The separation of droid focus (calculate) and Jedi powers gives me hope that they are trying out that design space in order to bring in stuff like the eta-2. Now that Resistance and FO are their own factions it means that Republic and Separatists wont need to be tied into others and can stand alone. I also wouldn't be adverse to Hutt or Mandos far enough down the line.
ingtaer wrote: I am not up on the new fluff, have any Bounty Hunter/Mercenary/Crime gangs come up at all?
not sure as I don't bother with books or comics but with both the Resistance and FO very much on the backfoot by the end of TLJ there's bound to be those out for all the can get to take advantage
Separating the F/O and Resistance into factions of their own makes sense. Especially since Han and Chewbacca are the only pilots to bridge the two eras. I wonder if we'll be able to use old toasters (droids) in new ships, as that would still somewhat make sense.
Maybe we won't see Finn and Kannan in the same ship anymore, and wouldn't that be just so, so sad. Let me go cry a river...
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Separating the F/O and Resistance into factions of their own makes sense. Especially since Han and Chewbacca are the only pilots to bridge the two eras. I wonder if we'll be able to use old toasters (droids) in new ships, as that would still somewhat make sense.
Maybe we won't see Finn and Kannan in the same ship anymore, and wouldn't that be just so, so sad. Let me go cry a river...
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Separating the F/O and Resistance into factions of their own makes sense. Especially since Han and Chewbacca are the only pilots to bridge the two eras. I wonder if we'll be able to use old toasters (droids) in new ships, as that would still somewhat make sense.
Maybe we won't see Finn and Kannan in the same ship anymore, and wouldn't that be just so, so sad. Let me go cry a river...
Resistance Luke would be fun.
especially with fluffy subtitles the cards have 'grumpy unka Jedi' should suit
Flinty wrote: One the one hand the App is a nice idea as it permits all kinds of neat balancing to happen. On the down side when support for the game finally gets dropped there will be no possible way to play it as all the points values will be gone. Maybe that's a bit too forward looking however...
Even if all support for the app was dropped, anybody who had the app and data already installed will still be able to use it. And it would likely still be available for purchase on the app store.
krodarklorr wrote: The Jedi have the tokens taken into account with their cost, I can guarantee it. And the mechanic doesn't recharge (albeit certain abilities like Luke's). So, it hardly has that big of an impact on the game. I, for one, am cool with more mechanics being added to the game. Mo' options.
Force recovers at +1 per turn. Multiple points give you a bank, and Luke can be really aggressive with using his.
krodarklorr wrote: The Jedi have the tokens taken into account with their cost, I can guarantee it. And the mechanic doesn't recharge (albeit certain abilities like Luke's). So, it hardly has that big of an impact on the game. I, for one, am cool with more mechanics being added to the game. Mo' options.
Force recovers at +1 per turn. Multiple points give you a bank, and Luke can be really aggressive with using his.
Oh, obviously I missed that part then. Well regardless, it's most likely built into their cost. I'm not concerned about it.
Given people have kept Knight Model's flash in the pan Marvel game alive, something tells me someone might find a way to make X-Wing playable after the app's death.
ingtaer wrote: I am secretly hoping that part of it is that they are opening up design space for a few new factions as well.
Like what factions?
Like Republic and Separatist
With some of the old Clone Wars equipment making it into Legion, the ARC-170 being in the game... I think it's looking more and more likely, especially if Disney is driving the deal. They are not about to let one third of the franchise go unused because of bad dialogue/stupid movie plots. If the ships look cool (they do) and can bring something to the game (they can) then there will be something coming out eventually.
Although it is a second edition, they have to look at the future and think of new releases. Galaxies is now long, long gone and a lot more people have seen Clone Wars than played that MMO, methinks. With the old EU getting pushed aside into Legends, they have to be leery of dipping into that pool. KOTOR is not on anyone's radar, it seems (alas), and the game requires a bit more material to pad movie releases. The Resistance is still at least a year away, innit?
While I'm overall very happy for the update, I think I'm going to be one of the ones selling their collection. If I had gotten into X-Wing earlier and had spent upwards of $500 on it, then I would be ok with spending $140 to update my collection (starter + upgrade packs for two factions). As it is, I only spent around $200 and have only around a dozen ships per faction. I don't feel it would be worth the cost as of now.
Fortunately, X-Wing doesn't look like it's going anywhere, so getting back in won't be too much trouble.
Arcanis161 wrote: While I'm overall very happy for the update, I think I'm going to be one of the ones selling their collection. If I had gotten into X-Wing earlier and had spent upwards of $500 on it, then I would be ok with spending $140 to update my collection (starter + upgrade packs for two factions). As it is, I only spent around $200 and have only around a dozen ships per faction. I don't feel it would be worth the cost as of now.
Fortunately, X-Wing doesn't look like it's going anywhere, so getting back in won't be too much trouble.
Depending on what you have it might be worth getting some upgrades off others. I’ll have extras of a lot of the newer stuff. I’d wager I’m not alone.
Welp, a player in my local X-wing scene asked if I'd care to split a new core with him - he's going to preorder and get the cool damage deck so each of us will have a damage deck (one the promo one, one from the box).
So I'm still in then. I'll probably pick up an Empire upgrade box when it comes out, see if they might have given Imperial players a fair shake this time around.
Yeah, unless the early Rebels flew the N-1 I don't want to see it anywhere near the tabletop or anything prequel (plus it's an ugly ship). There's still a ton of ships from the Galactic Civil War and the time after till TFA that can be touched on too.
Glad to see my memory wasn't just playing tricks. My take on the prequels is that it could be good for two reasons, one it allows a couple of other factions with, hopefully, unique feels to them. With the new calculate and force mechanics underpinning the design space for the Separatists and Republic respectively. My second reason is that it would allow me to blow up the kid and Gungan whos names must not be mentioned...
My main issue with it is the cross factionalism that it would promote more of (with ARC, Z and Y at least being available to the Republic).
KingmanHighborn wrote: Yeah, unless the early Rebels flew the N-1 I don't want to see it anywhere near the tabletop or anything prequel (plus it's an ugly ship). There's still a ton of ships from the Galactic Civil War and the time after till TFA that can be touched on too.
They'll be dragging up new things since the TFA+ stuff is going to need to be EU, and the EU has basically used the standard ships shown in the movies for First Order and Resistance.
Honestly Prequel is the best option for expanding things.
Not sure how I feel about 2nd edition, most of my models I got from trades from people getting out.
I'm currently a student and $50 a faction plus $40 for the box set is a lot to me.
There is a bunch of people in my area that are starting to shave down their armies or leaving the hobby
all together. We saw this with the new edition of Warmachine. People were excited about it but once released
no one really played it and now the game has really dried up in the area.
I am glad they recognized the fixes that needed to be made but not sure if it was handled correctly.
The point thing only online make me feel the game is incomplete.
Disney really haven't been pushing the prequels, at all. There's hardly any mention in the new movies, TLJ's explanation of the force has nothing to do with midicorians, and I haven't seen any identifiably ep. 1-3 merchandise, while Darth Vader and ep. 4-6 stormtroopers are everywhere. Not seeing The Mouse forcing FFG to use prequel stuff.
This isn't to say it'll never appear, but I'd expect stuff from Solo to turn up a lot earlier.
Solo stuff should be out this year, but really how many waves can they expect to squeeze out of the film? I expect one (Scum Falcon and the new TIE thing), what else do we have from the new trilogy yet to be released? A few different shuttles and a slightly longer A-Wing. So that leaves plundering the old EU and realistically I doubt there is a lot that will be viable, does anyone really want the H-Wing? or the dozens of slightly different TIE designs? Non main faction stuff there is still quite a bit of stuff that is doable but is about as recognisable as Star Wars as the K-Wing is.
I cant imagine that the mouse will not allow FFG to make prequel stuff, as was noted before the designers said that they were not going to go there but was that a decision made due to the design constraint, economics or a diktat from the mouse? We cant know but as the license has to be paid for and a minimum of six ships a year are to be expected they have to come from somewhere. Prequels seems to make sense.
No, not what I meant - I don't think FFG wanted to do prequel stuff, and given the fact that Disney isn't really pushing it I can't see them forcing FFG to do prequel to keep the licence.
There's the new "Resistance" cartoon which should provide some more designs prior to Ep. 7, plus whatever turns up in Ep. 9, which really isn't that far off given that FFG is probably going to spend the majority of the next year and a bit re-boxing and re-releasing the stuff that was in the V1 waves.
If prequel stuff turns up, I'd guess it'll be in about 3 years.
Yeah that would be my guess as well, three - five years. I cant imagine they will go there sooner, especially as just the rerelease of ships for 2.0 is going to take a year or more... (though I hope not).
ingtaer wrote: Yeah that would be my guess as well, three - five years. I cant imagine they will go there sooner, especially as just the rerelease of ships for 2.0 is going to take a year or more... (though I hope not).
I dunno, I'm okay with not getting all of the ships at once. It gives them time to assess the meta and make changes as they need before releasing things, and it gives us something to look forward to. Plus it's easier on my wallet.
Considering the re-release ships from Wave 2 on will have brand-new, non-conversion kit cards... I think it'll take a long while to fully re-release them. They will want people buying every single release (again), and over-aggressive release schedule will cut into sales. Even hardcore fans only buy so much...
Considering the prequels are generally seen by most as bad I wouldn't be surprised if Disney, and FFG, is holding off on including the ships from those movies until they can find a way to turn them into money makers.
ProtoClone wrote: Considering the prequels are generally seen by most as bad I wouldn't be surprised if Disney, and FFG, is holding off on including the ships from those movies until they can find a way to turn them into money makers.
The Clone Wars show was pretty good, and that's where a lot of the Republic designs would come from.
Also, the ship designs are one of the best things about the prequels (right after Ewan McGregors turn as Obi-Wan)
ProtoClone wrote: Considering the prequels are generally seen by most as bad I wouldn't be surprised if Disney, and FFG, is holding off on including the ships from those movies until they can find a way to turn them into money makers.
Personally and from what I’ve heard amongst friends it’s the script is the bad part. The vehicles, creatures, and visual character designs are generally well regarded. Personally I’d love to see all the Clone starfighters (ARC, Clone Y&Z, and V-19), Droid fighter, tri-fighter, bomber, and gunship, and Maul’s ship.
Clone wars era ships would be one thing that would tempt me to shell out the cash to convert to 2.0. I still very much feel it's want legions needs.
I think a lot of the problems with x-wing is far too much emphasis is put on the 100 point dogfight in an asteroid field tournament play style. The "meta" really isn't such an issue in larger games.
400 point 2 vs 2 games, with 1 or 2 large ships a side. Flying fighters in actual squadrons. All of the broken combo's for individual ships goes out the window when you can just line up half a dozen ships to delete that threat of the board. It also looks and feels a lot more on how we see ship fights on screen.
Yeah, the acting was what was bad but people generally don't see the prequels overall in a good light.
Disney might be working on a way to clean up the movies mess with spin-off series, like Clone Wars, or other media ventures to off set the general distaste for the prequels. So, for now, the prequels are on respirator until they can patch them up.
Sorry, not trying to make a mess just proposing a possible idea. Disney is very much about control and this could be, not definite, what they are trying to do.
Given the amount of Clone Wars stuff that popped up in Rebels, I don't think Disney has any sort of ban on the era. I think if anyone has let their personal hatred for the prequels get in the way of content for their games, its FFG. I'd wager they're just realizing they've thoroughly exhausted everything else and Disney isn't feeding them new stuff fast enough to avoid it any longer.
I don't... like... the prequels at all, really. They are 3 downright abysmal films through and through. That said, the actual conflict that the movies don't bother with are good game fodder with lots of great character designs that make for some pretty fun heroes to control and villains to vanquish. A lot of people have proven the ability to do great things with those toys and I think its time FFG challenges itself to do the same.
Flinty wrote: Don't forget the acting. That was also abysmal.
And the direction. It takes a certain level of skill to make Natalie Portman a worse actress than she was at 11.
But the ship designs were generally quite nice, and would look good on the board. Having droid controlled ships act significantly different would be very interesting.
I doubt it. People will riot if they have to wait that long, especially if FFG releases prequel trash before 2.0 kits for the stuff we already bought.
I'm pretty sure Mathieu was talking about the show, not the entire faction as a whole.
Yes, the show. The conversion pack is slated as part of the second wave of releases. And I think they said they wanted to be aggressive in their release schedule, so I dare think no one will have to wait more than 2 months before they can again flood the tables with Resistance Bombers. Lucky us.
The more I think about the (well needed) second edition of the game, the more excited I get.
I can't wait to get my Imperials back out on the tabletops. Ran a few demo games last week to get the idea of X-Wing into a few new player's heads. I told them they should probably hold off buying much until the second edition, but they thoroughly enjoyed it, and the idea that they would have plenty of time to save up money to buy into the game.
I'll try to take notes for the Montreal group. do you want to revisit your French, mate?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy hell that was a lot, fast, but still a lot is missing.
Are those threat level squads going to be only in the new packs, or are some in the upgrade packs?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well. Soontir won't be the Dominator anymore (I know, he wasn't since the last few waves) but the Interceptor in general will be a good, if squishy, ship.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I'll try to take notes for the Montreal group. do you want to revisit your French, mate?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy hell that was a lot, fast, but still a lot is missing.
Are those threat level squads going to be only in the new packs, or are some in the upgrade packs?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well. Soontir won't be the Dominator anymore (I know, he wasn't since the last few waves) but the Interceptor in general will be a good, if squishy, ship.
Yes please, always good to practice.
Here is a long list of all the changes I noted; New configuration cards (eg. s-foils). Cannons still in, HLC is the same as before but bullseye arc only. FCS is now reroll one dice if you have the ship locked. Advanced sensors is one action only after revealing dial. There is now only one type of astromech slot, specified by droid as scum or rebel. Force upgrades separated into light and dark sides. Engine upgrade turns red boost white.
IMPS. Defenders has boost, gained a shield and has the x/7 baked and has a 2 K. Punisher has boost that chains to lock, reload, gains a stop. Decimator has white reinforce and red coordinate. Tactical officer turns red coordinate white. Phantom looses one attack, has Stygium baked in where you spend an evade to gain cloak token. Inquisitor is force 2, may spend a token to prevent the enemy gaining the range 1 bonus, may spend a token when attacking at 2-3 to gain the range 1 bonus. Inquisitor crew gains one force token, may spend to do a white action when an enemy at range 0-2 reveals its dial.
Scum. IGs the same except D which can use turns or straight to perform sloop. Asajj gains force 2, 3 forward attack, 2 turret (one arc only). Spend a force to make an enemy ship in the turret arc spend a green token or gain a stress. Now 8 hull, 2 shield. Bossk, same ability, 180 arc, white reinforce, 9 hull, 3 shield. Hounds tooth is same though now specifies 1 Z can dock with you. Z gains red barrel roll. Kath ability changed to when attacking if a non limited friendly ship is at range 0 of the defender then gain an attack die. Y-wing gains red barrel roll and reload. HWK gains red stop, red Jam and red boost. Slave 1 title you can change turns or banks to their opposite (ie if you turned right, you can change dial to left) adds torpedo still. Firespray gains 3 speed T-rolls. Mist hunter title adds cannon and white barrel roll. Punishing one title add a dice when attacking from your fore arc, remove crew gain astromech. JM5K dial much worse. G1A had terrible dial as well, but gains stop. And white jam. Khiraxz gains 2 speed red t-rolls. Kimoglia, when enemy is defending if in bullseye arc then they cannot spend green tokens. Starviper must use bank templates to perform barrel rolls. Quadjumper gains a 2 reverse, array is built in, a ship at range 1 gains a tractor token, if in bullseye gains 2. Scuurg did not gain reload. Dengar crew is when defending spend an energy token and the oppo must remove a green token, if they do not roll one red dice, on a hit or crit the ship suffers a damage. Jabba crew, spend an energy and a ship at 0-2 can regain an illicit. Maul crew gains a force, when suffer damage gain a stress to recover a force and may equip Dark Side upgrades. Scum cloak can be fitted on medium ships! Moralo Eval, if you would flee then spend an energy to place yourself in reserve. In the next planning phase place yourself within range 1 of the edge you fled from.
Rebs. Sabine crew, place 1 Ion, 1 jam, 1 stress and 1 tractor on the card. When a ship suffers that effect from a bomb then you can add one token from her stack to the effect. Both blue and phoenix squadron are in the game. A-Wing gains 3 red sloops. B-Wing gains 1 red t-rolls. Ghost synergy with docked shuttles remains the same. Ezra is 1 force, may spend to use his old ability. Sheathepeade when docked gives Ghost white coordinate before activating. Ship gains 1 red reverse. Ghost is still 4 attack, gains white reinforce. Reads like shuttles can redock. Wookie ship gains red stop. Moldy Crow title gives HWK a three dice attack from fore arc (standard is 2 turret). U-Wing gets red coordinate. K-Wing gains white reload, keeps SLAM. Falcon gains red 3 sloops, and red boost. YT-2400 gains 4 dice dual turret but does not get range bonus for 0-1 and looses 1 attack dice. E-Wing gains red 3 sloops, has old LRS as standard, has boost, stats now are 3, 3, 3, 3. Peri is going to be doing backflips! ARC-170 has 3 dice fore and 2 dice rear and is now medium base. Han crew can perform a turret attack at initiative 7 but cant attack from the same turret again that round. Miranda keeps her ability but only for primary attacks and when unshielded.
Cheers for that, didn't have time to search earlier.
Really looking forward to trying out Eval with docked N'Dru, cloaked firespray with marauder and Asajj with maul.
Worth noting that the striker has gained bombs.
Could indeed be the case, quite a few changes don't look good for us. But we still haven't seen two thirds of the cards and have no idea of costs for anything, so a little early to judge.
KingmanHighborn wrote: YT-2400 not only doesn't get the range bonus at 0-1 IIRC it actually loses a die and goes to 3.
Cool, have amended and added a few more. If that is the only mistake I made then I am pretty happy.
Less happy about how fat turrets have once again reared their ugly heads, both models of YT are looking like the bad old days but without points it is still too early to tell.
Apparently the app is going to be released on 13th September.
They have to release the app before. The game is going to be available at Gencon (unless they expect hardcore players to swarm their booth to play only "generic threat-level locked lists").
I don't believe that the game will be in hands for nigh on 5 weeks without the app. I don't want to live in that world!
Plus we're working closely with Asmodee Canada to maybe get some prize support for an X-Wing 1.0 sendoff tourney... I need 2.0 stuff to make it "the happening of the summer."
Automatically Appended Next Post: They have to release the app before. The game is going to be available at Gencon (unless they expect hardcore players to swarm their booth to play only "generic threat-level locked lists").
I don't believe that the game will be in hands for nigh on 5 weeks without the app. I don't want to live in that world!
Plus we're working closely with Asmodee Canada to maybe get some prize support for an X-Wing 1.0 sendoff tourney... I need 2.0 stuff to make it "the happening of the summer."
If it's just the Core set that's available at GenCon they don't have to release the app by then because you can use the quick build cards that come in the box. I know that's not ideal for most people but it's a possibility. Not sure if FFG have confirmed that the conversion kits are going to be available at GenCon or if we all just assumed?
I think, again, just my business sense, that if they were able to open the conversion packs on Twitch, then those are at the printer running full speed, and those will be available too.
It might make sense to release only the core set to heighten pre-consumption desire in the general population, but I just don't see it.
I think some guy in Quebec City has already printed himself a full set of the spoilt cards and dials and has started filming demos of the new edition.
It is entirely possible that its just bad info and Frank wasn't thinking about it and said on the 13th, getting confused between the game release date and app.
Interesting that the AP and Obsidian are the same threat, makes me wonder just how rough the calculation is. I suppose with only a scale of 1-5 to work with it wouldn't be very accurate but that could be pretty harsh if they do a tourney format with them.
So I'm guessing the threat-level based game will be multiples of 5? They are being much more liberal with those Shield Upgrades than the Empire ever was, I suspect.
The threat level is very similar to GW's Power Level in 40k It looks as though it roughly equates to 1 Threat per 25 points, which means there could be a 12-13 point difference between two ships of the same threat level. It also looks as though the cards are designed to be used as complete squadrons rather than individually so it's probably best to view it as a squadron of threat X rather than paying too much attention to the individual threat levels of each ship.
Slipspace wrote: The threat level is very similar to GW's Power Level in 40k
Yep. It's a trash mechanic and a waste of cards, for the same reason that power level in 40k is. I just hope that FFG shows more sense than GW and limits its use to newbie teaching games and does not try to force it on normal games.
There is a small difference between Power Level in 40k and Threat Level that make it not so stupid.
The ships are already fully equipped without any options.
For 40k there is the difference if a PL 4 troop takes the 20 points or the 5 point weapon, while here there are no such options
Of course there still can be a difference as points are adjusted on the fly and something that was too cheap or expensive get changed later while the Threat Level stays the same
And there is the possibility that the Threat Level was designed with specific lists in mind and instead giving the players 5 pre set demo lists we got this.
kodos wrote: For 40k there is the difference if a PL 4 troop takes the 20 points or the 5 point weapon, while here there are no such options
This isn't a good thing. In PL40k games all units start equipped with the most expensive/powerful option possible, but you have the option to downgrade to something else if you really want to. In threat level games you have no such choice, you're stuck with whatever FFG gives you. Sure, you might not take that option very often in 40k, but having it is better than not having it.
This isn't a good thing. In PL40k games all units start equipped with the most expensive/powerful option possible.
No, in 40k you start with nothing but can use whatever option you want.
Some may just take the most expensive options because they think otherwise they lose something but the most expensive option is not always the best.
But those options you have in 40k in a squad are like the different Pilots you have in X-Wing.
It would work better for Power Levels if there are Squads to choose from, one with melee equipment and one with anti-tank ranged weapons, one with anti-infantry etc.
Slipspace wrote: The threat level is very similar to GW's Power Level in 40k
Yep. It's a trash mechanic and a waste of cards, for the same reason that power level in 40k is. I just hope that FFG shows more sense than GW and limits its use to newbie teaching games and does not try to force it on normal games.
From the preview games we've seen and the fact you don't get any Threat Level cards in the conversions it looks as though FFG are using them just as a way to allow people to use stuff that comes in the box they just bought. I've not heard any plans to use them in tournaments and they seem to be concentrating on points as the balancing mechanic. That's a good thing, IMO. Can't stand the PL system in 40k so I'd be annoyed to see it make its way to X-Wing.
As I started running a lot of demo games, It'll be great to have Threat levels matched and be done with it. I'll be able to vary lists a bit for returning newbies and not have to figure everything out on the app on the fly.
The Threat thing looks like a good way to just get some ships out and start flying. Handy for a quick game where no-one's got any squadrons worked out. Sounds ideal for me. X-Wing is one of my "lets do something quick" games, so I don't mind picking a "stock" flight of X-Wings and not worrying about upgrades.
Slipspace wrote: The threat level is very similar to GW's Power Level in 40k
Yep. It's a trash mechanic and a waste of cards, for the same reason that power level in 40k is. I just hope that FFG shows more sense than GW and limits its use to newbie teaching games and does not try to force it on normal games.
From the preview games we've seen and the fact you don't get any Threat Level cards in the conversions it looks as though FFG are using them just as a way to allow people to use stuff that comes in the box they just bought. I've not heard any plans to use them in tournaments and they seem to be concentrating on points as the balancing mechanic. That's a good thing, IMO. Can't stand the PL system in 40k so I'd be annoyed to see it make its way to X-Wing.
Not sure about the conversion kits, but we do know that the 2.0 ship blisters include threat level cards.
I have mixed feelings about the threat level, whilst it seems a bit bland to us X-Wing vets we've had time for all the upgrades etc to percolate into the grey matter, 2.0 is launching with far more options than 1.0 so anything the eases new players in and helps retain them has to be a positive move
Personally I shudder at the thought of tourneys using them, but will certainly make pick up games easier/quicker. Looking at the few options that have been released so far though I very much fear that they are going to be badly optimised. With the rolling points changes that are being touted that could just make them so much worse.
But for easing people into the game and for thematic games they could be excellent, I most look forward to using them in epic though, in v1 choosing 300pts off the cuff seemed to take as much time as playing the game.
The major difference in the Threat Level system vs GW's Power Levels is that the ships on the Threat Level cards come with upgrades added and are therefore both fixed in configuration and more able to be balanced within the system. That already makes them massively better than the PL system. I think they'll be a decent addition for new players and teaching people but I'd be very surprised if they showed up in any way at tournaments.
Slipspace wrote: The major difference in the Threat Level system vs GW's Power Levels is that the ships on the Threat Level cards come with upgrades added and are therefore both fixed in configuration and more able to be balanced within the system. That already makes them massively better than the PL system. I think they'll be a decent addition for new players and teaching people but I'd be very surprised if they showed up in any way at tournaments.
I really hope you are right but he devs kind of hinted that at least the Yavin tourney will be using the threat levels.
Edit; At least that is the way I heard it, more than happy to be corrected.
I'm also hoping the app has some kind of function for one click pre-builts (using points) to help newer players, they dont need to be cutting edge torny level just something to teach 'this ship does this' heck even a 'most popular' function might be worth a punt
Part of the game is choosing your list but part of it is being able to fly the list well. On the basis that any tournament based on the squadron cards will end up with almost everyone going for the "best" pregenerated squadron, then it quickly becomes a straight test of flying skill between the players. I can see that appealing to certain people.
The game becomes very like chess at that point, but chess still seems to do quite well.
The threat levels are not for veteran players, they're for new players to bust out the ships they just bought and have some vaguely thematic and appropriate upgrades for them. It minimizes the box open to playing a game time.
For that use, they're great. For 5 year vets, they'll go straight back in the box. But that's ok !
I’m a huge fan so far. I play often with new or newer people, and write lists for others anyway. Making lists is not something a new player is really either going to do, or know how to do well anyway. After a few games with threat cards though they’ll be able to pick up list building and run with it.
It’s the same theory as GWs power level, but as it incorporates upgrades it’s already 100% better in theory.
A lot to take in, seems like all the illicit options (bar cloak) got worse, and rebel fat turrets and regen are still present (YT-2400 even manged to buff it more!).
I really don't how I feel about these reveals (and really cant without costs and the Scum reveal), but I have to say that I am not sure I am liking it.
The changes to various cards (eg. Leia, Lando, R2-D2) I like, the changes to others (Luke gunner, the whole package of the YT-2400, Chewie crew etc) I really don't like. The fact that the conversion kit also doesn't contain all of the pilots we know are coming in wave 1 ship blisters also makes me very nervous for the future.
Gonna have to give this some real thought.
In some other news out local distributor has announced that they will be giving out the promo damage deck with advance orders of the core set so i imagine that holds true for all territories.
Edit; Though the price has jumped massively, core set was $60 is now $75, conversion kits are $90!
Not really impressed with what I'm seeing here. FFG seems too in love with their new charge mechanic, and the obsessive nerfing of action economy is going to make way too much of the game come down to rolling dice and hoping to have better luck than your opponent. I expected the loss of PTL (though FFG doesn't seem to understand why PTL was so necessary) and similar high-tier cards that arguably broke the meta, but why did low-tier stuff like Airen Cracken and APTs need to be nerfed? It's really hard to escape the feeling that FFG is going down the GW path of increasing the importance of dice luck as a means of putting a skill ceiling on the game and giving bad players a better chance of winning (and therefore a better chance of continuing to buy stuff).
ingtaer wrote: All good, was just playing silly buggers.
I really don't how I feel about these reveals (and really cant without costs and the Scum reveal), but I have to say that I am not sure I am liking it.
The changes to various cards (eg. Leia, Lando, R2-D2) I like, the changes to others (Luke gunner, the whole package of the YT-2400, Chewie crew etc) I really don't like. The fact that the conversion kit also doesn't contain all of the pilots we know are coming in wave 1 ship blisters also makes me very nervous for the future.
Gonna have to give this some real thought.
In some other news out local distributor has announced that they will be giving out the promo damage deck with advance orders of the core set so i imagine that holds true for all territories.
Edit; Though the price has jumped massively, core set was $60 is now $75, conversion kits are $90!
I don't know where this poster got his conversion kit to leak, but in the FFG Twitch reveal videos it was worth mentioning that the Wave 1 Pilots were included in a separate pack, inside the box. Its possible that this leaker simply didn't get a full box, or spoil the entire thing.
I blame the fact it was it 0230hrs when I typed, cause I remember the same thing and have even written it elsewhere (probably a page back).
Gonna have to drag up the conversion kits contents page and ship conversion lists and cross check them to see how much has been revealed, I cant remember any Force powers in this lot, but again that could just be how late it was!
Peregrine; Surely the new E-Wing has you a little excited?
ingtaer wrote: Peregrine; Surely the new E-Wing has you a little excited?
Not really. It's a massive nerf over 1.0, and gaining +1 hull is nowhere near enough to offset it.
(Almost) Everything is nerfed though, so we're going to need to wait and see where the new power level settles before we can really know if FFG have been successful in rebalancing the game. I'm cautiously optimistic, as long as they don't do a GW and forget their design restrictions by wave 3.
Peregrine wrote: Not really impressed with what I'm seeing here. FFG seems too in love with their new charge mechanic, and the obsessive nerfing of action economy is going to make way too much of the game come down to rolling dice and hoping to have better luck than your opponent. I expected the loss of PTL (though FFG doesn't seem to understand why PTL was so necessary) and similar high-tier cards that arguably broke the meta, but why did low-tier stuff like Airen Cracken and APTs need to be nerfed? It's really hard to escape the feeling that FFG is going down the GW path of increasing the importance of dice luck as a means of putting a skill ceiling on the game and giving bad players a better chance of winning (and therefore a better chance of continuing to buy stuff).
Having similar thoughts, wasn't sure if it was the sheer volume of cards being shown that made it look like a lot of charge cards and the minimal action economy and limited re-rolls does suggest a lot of games may well come down to dice spikes
I am afraid I cant link the pics up at the moment but will do say later if someone else hasn't already.
Mathieu; I agree that things in here are rather tame but to be honest I like it like that, reading FFG website (full of whining) and reddit (full of arguing for the sake of picking a fight) here it is just generally more laid back. I guess that's cause there is about a dozen of us who post regularly.
I see they're taking the "it's easier to balance slots if we give all the slots to every faction" approach. I'm curious which Imperial ship will eventually get the illicit slot.
streamdragon wrote: I see they're taking the "it's easier to balance slots if we give all the slots to every faction" approach. I'm curious which Imperial ship will eventually get the illicit slot.
Which makes no sense. It’s actually the opposite. The fewer things that can purchase something, the easier it is to balance.
streamdragon wrote: I see they're taking the "it's easier to balance slots if we give all the slots to every faction" approach. I'm curious which Imperial ship will eventually get the illicit slot.
The really interesting thing about that is they stated only Saw's Renegades get the Illicit slot, so there's flexibility within the squad-building app to have each individual ship have different slots available to it. I had assumed that would be the case but it's nice to get confirmation.
Graphite wrote: Huh. Quite a lot of x-wing and a-wing pilots retired. Not sure about elsewhere.
I suspect that the answer is that some of the missing pilots are being saved for the re-released expansions. I mean, how else do you justify removing Tycho (a canon character from ROTJ) in favor of Jake (an old EU character from an obscure video game)?
I don't see Thane Kyrell on that list (who comes in the 2.0 X-wing expansion pack), nor Nora Wexley (who comes in the Y-wing pack) so I don't think that the list is complete and is missing the contents of the extra bag that contains the pilots from the expansions.
Only 2 of most generics is going to really annoy some people.
Graphite wrote: Wait, I thought Jake was the guy in an A-wing in RotJ who didn't smash into an SSD?
Anyway - this does seem fairly likely. But a third A-wing isn't necessarily something I'll object to!
Oh, you're right, I thought the a-wing who splits off to draw the TIEs away in the death star was Tycho, apparently it's actually Jake. Pretty lame though, Tycho was a character and not just a generic NPC in an obscure video game.
I haven't kept abreast since the first couple of days after the announcement so I apologize if this is old news. I know they had some lengthy unboxing videos of the faction upgrade sets but I was curious if anyone had a link to a simple list of the contents.
Not that I have seen, trawl through this thread and most of the information is here.
Copy of the FFGAMA taken from the FFG forum;
Spoiler:
AMA with Frank and Max
Can you talk about your vision for how the TIE Phantom will play on the table in 2.0 and why some of these changes were made?
MB: At three attack dice, the TIE Phantom is able to be cheaper, which expands the list building opportunities for it. We found in testing this made it an interesting addition to a lot of Imperial lists. With the Cloak action, it remains a unique piece for the Empire to use. By contrast, the VCX and YT-2400 are much more the cornerstones of the list they're involved in, because they have so much hull. Having four attack dice is necessary for them to function at their cost.
How frequently can we expect a re-balancing of points? Outside of scheduled updates, if something is quickly shown to be unhealthy for the game, is the option of an emergency update to the app/points something you are willing to do?
FB: We are planning on making point adjustments on a scheduled basis. Only a handful times of year. We are still settling down on how often, but the numbers we are looking at right now are between 3 and 4. You shouldn’t run into a problem where in the time between when you leave your house to go to the event and when you arrive, points have changed.
MB: In terms of emergency updates, we would very much like people to be confident that the point values are accurate, so this isn't something we would want to use unless it was absolutely necessary, but never say never!
What are some of the themes that you felt you needed to attach to the factions and how do you plan on preventing these identities from blurring together with the expansion of the game?
MB: Splitting the Resistance and the First Order off means that the core factions of the game are smaller. As a result, we don't have to worry about as much of one faction being able to do absolutely everything, but certain factions do overlap in some ways. For instance, Rebels and Scum both have access to Illicit slots, but the Resistance does not, which helps anchor the thematic differences and similarities between those three factions.
FB: The Empire plays up a bit more of having commanders issuing orders that the other pilots need to follow. The First Order on the other hand, does so much more aggressively, possibly to the detriment of said pilots.
MB: Access to Force users and high-initiative pilots varies by faction and can be seen as another defining feature.
Is getting more named ships (even the cheap ones) on the table a design goal, or would you like to see more generics on the table in second edition? What does a fun squad look like for you? Half generics? 75% Generics? 25% Generics? Or is not a design concern at all?
Basically, is variety in lists for generics/named pilots something that you go out of your way to influence and design, or just let the community figure out as we go? And if you do have goals for seeing generics in competitive play, how often do you like seeing them appear?
FB: With our ability to adjust point costs, at different times in the game's life, generic pilots and named pilots will fill different roles. Different game modes will encourage different builds. Some game modes will have a limited card pool and will force players to try builds they would not have played before.
MB: Keep in mind that the ability to alter upgrade slots available also gives us a lot of flexibility in adjusting generics up or down, compared to named pilots. Some generics in first edition would have benefited from a talent slot or an extra mod slot, and we can make these sorts of changes to incentivize or balance generics as necessary. And we can take away slots if certain generics or named pilots prove too powerful with them.
How will you distinguish between strong squads/cards and squads/cards that need to be changed or nerfed?
FB: This is a pretty subtle distinction. It honestly comes down to the fact that we don’t want a specific ship, upgrade, or list to dominate for too long. We want to keep things moving and shifting—a stale meta-game is a boring meta-game. That said, we don’t want to it be a hurricane of changes that make the game difficult to follow and impossible to plan for. New content being added with new waves certainly shift around what’s good, but we are not afraid of shifting point costs of things that were staples of the meta-game just to make people have to adjust their thinking.
As an aside, some events will force players to rethink what cards are useful by shifting which cards are allowed.
There are a number of ships such as Rebel Fenn Rau that no longer have range requirements on abilities that require you to be in arc. Is there something in the rulebook that makes stating range requirements unneeded?
FB: This is an easy one: yes. Since the only measuring tools provided by the game are the range ruler and the maneuver templates, rather than constantly restating “inside your (firing) arc at range 0–3” (since a firing arc can’t be measured with those components beyond the range ruler), we just put a rule in that says measuring inside your arc goes to the end of the range ruler (i.e. up to range 3).
Are you still open to the idea of occasional FAQ posts for the sake of changing a card's text rather than just clarifying it, or do you think that kind of situation only clutters the game and belongs in 1.0?
FB: Getting the opportunity to rewrite the game's language, we had the entire backlog of first edition content to explore all of the abilities we are going to explore in second edition, and therefore, could write the language anticipating a lot of these game effects. Ideally, this will mean we don't need as much clarifying FAQ. Additionally, the app will include the most up-to-date versions of cards in cases where we might need to do errata.
Can you talk a bit more about Force Powers and Light Side/ Dark Side powers and how you see these influencing the game in ways that differ from Pilot Talent upgrades?
MB: Light side and Dark side Force Powers give us a lot of ability to evoke the theme of the unique Force abilities we see in Star Wars. And then of course we have characters like Maul, who can let characters access powers they normally couldn't (he's a bad influence on Ezra).
FB: Force Powers tend to be more paradigm-breaking, allowing pilots to do things that no other upgrade would let them do. Talents tend to reward you for good flying, or give you interesting tricks that reflect experience in the cockpit.
Will Force Users have a serious point premium?
MB: Yes, Force Users will pay a significant premium. The Force is the greatest power in the Star Wars universe, and you'll have to pay for it.
if you're stressed and reveal a Red maneuver, what happens in 2.0?
FB: The ship does a white 2-straight maneuver.
Do you plan on expanding the smaller factions more aggressively than others to try and make them similar sizes again? Are there any thoughts or ideas about future implementation of new factions?
FB: In the game mode for only re-released ships in second edition, we plan on keeping the factions at similar sizes. In the long run, we'd like all the factions to grow towards the same size, but this will be influenced by the specific ships that exist.
Are you balancing the calculate action through a reduction in point cost or will we see situations in which calculate possess advantages or interactions not possible through focus? If the latter, will these advantages and interactions be a possibility for all droids, or only for certain droids with the advantage baked in (like all the droids with access to multiple calculate tokens)? Will we see advantages that are drastically different to multiple calculate tokens?
FB: Hecks yeah! We have a lot of fun ideas in mind on how to use calculate. The ones you've seen so far are typically generating multiple calculate tokens, but we have a lot of fun ideas coming up. :]
MB: (That's a droid smiley face.)
FB: Occasionally, ships will be cheaper if they have calculate instead of focus. Of course these will be droid pilots rather than organic pilots.
Can you comment on your design thoughts for rule breaking upgrades? For example, a gunner that would allow you a free action to turn the mobile arc without spending an action is 'effectively' the same as the old 360 degree turrets from first edition. Does your design mantra afford the ability to break these fundamental rules with limited cases? Was the goal to drastically reduce 360 turrets, but not eliminate the possibility completely?
MB: Clearly, you're talking about Luke (Gunner). Obviously, this card has been contentious. There are a number of interesting factors at play in the design of this card, some of which people have picked up on and others we want to highlight here:
1). Some cards are calibrated more for certain modes of play than others. Luke (Gunner) is a great example of a card that is targeted—and costed toward—use at the casual level. It helps new players get a handle on the mechanics of turrets, but rewards them for “proper” use of the rotate action and good flying (because they can spend the Force point on modifications instead of rotation). However, its high cost means that taking it at a tournament level probably isn’t optimal for many builds.
2). Speaking of cost, one thing that has changed enormously in Second Edition is the thought process behind costing upgrades. Simply put, upgrades can cost a lot more than they did before. Previously, individual upgrades only very rarely cost more than 10-20% of a ship’s cost. Now, an upgrade that brings as much benefit as an inexpensive ship (such as Luke (Gunner)) will cost as much as an inexpensive ship.
3). Many people have pointed this out, but it bears repeating: Luke (Gunner) interacts differently with the core conceit that flying ships is important, but it doesn’t invalidate it, because Luke (Gunner) is always better if you don’t need to use his ability to rotate the turret, which you accomplish by flying your ship correctly.
4). Finally, and this gets most to your point, one thing people haven’t picked upon as much is that Luke (Gunner) fits in very closely with the mechanical theme of the Force in Second Edition. The Force allows characters to do things that would normally be “impossible” (yes, even for a computer). Force powers and Force user characters get to do things nobody else can—but they have to choose which tricks they want to be able to do, and they pay for this flexibility in points.
FB: What he said.
What are some of the less obvious lessons you've learned from the first edition and how have they shaped X-Wing 2.0?
MB: Players really like dice modification effects, but too many dice modifications that don’t require particular conditions or flight patterns make the game less healthy overall. Dice randomness might feel bad in the moment, but dice certainty makes for a weak game experience overall. So, to this point, we wanted to make sure that you can still get dice mod effects, but you have to engage with the core activity of the game to get them or they cost some sort of diminishing resource. You'll notice a lot of dice modifications (like Predator) are now restricted to the bullseye arc, or are now charge-based like Elusive.
What role do you see for control (stress, jam, ion, tractor, etc) mechanics of X-Wing Second Edition?
FB & MB: Good question!
FB: We felt that certain effects (such as Ion and Stress) become incredibly negative play experiences in large quantities. We want to keep a cap on these effects and are carefully dishing them out.
MB: Ideally, we would like to see Ion, Jam, Tractor, and other de-buff effects as part of a toolbox of options that a list has, but not as the defining feature of a list. We have calibrated them and costed them as such.
FB: I like your answer better than mine.
Now that you have the ability to modify the point costs of upgrades on a per ship level, do you plan to use this ability more as a reactionary measure, or a proactive measure?
FB: We will be doing both. If we anticipate a card doing too well with new content, we will preemptively increase its cost. In contrast, we will certainly also take reactionary measures to bring balance to the Force—er... game.
What was your favourite design epiphany in 2.0?
FB: Making all turrets behave as mobile firing arcs. Also to account for ships that relied on that mechanic, we added the double turret arc.
MB: We made a prototype and left it on Frank's desk as a proof-of-concept that the smaller base could accommodate a mobile arc so that it would be the first thing he saw when he came back from vacation.
FB: And I said, "Let's do it!"
You've mentioned with the App the ability to ban cards from list building; is this intended to create a upgrade/pilot card rotation for competitive play or mainly as a last resort if a certain card becomes too dominant?
MB: It's not so much banning as certain events will have a list of specific cards that will be allowed. This might be based on theme, such as the Battle of Scarif, or it might be based on other considerations. X-Wing is a game with an enormous amount of possibility for different modes of play, and we are excited to explore them.
Can you explain the design decisions that kept known force users such a Corran Horn from having the force ability in X-Wing 2.0?
MB: Having a Force rating is not the only possible reflection of being a Force user and many Legends characters (but some canon characters too) do not have a Force rating in all of their incarnations. They do, however, have abilities that reflect their connection to the Force. For instance: Corran's second attack breaks a fundamental paradigm of the game (attacking once per round) much as a Force power would. Similarly, Leia (Crew) does not add a Force rating to her ship, but her ability does reflect her Force potential in addition to her prowess as a commander.
Ugh, that AMA. I wasn't expecting them to answer any difficult questions (and mine were downvoted off the page because I dared to question our lord and savior 2.0), but this is some GW-level nonsense.
Some game modes will have a limited card pool and will force players to try builds they would not have played before.
..
As an aside, some events will force players to rethink what cards are useful by shifting which cards are allowed.
IOW, my concerns about tournaments getting GW-style "fun" rules that randomly ban stuff are looking a lot more valid. People keep coming up with rules like this, and they almost inevitably suck.
New content being added with new waves certainly shift around what’s good, but we are not afraid of shifting point costs of things that were staples of the meta-game just to make people have to adjust their thinking.
This is sheer idiocy. The goal of a developer is to make a game that is balanced, as the game converges on balance changes should get smaller and smaller because there are fewer balance issues of smaller magnitude. But here we have FFG talking about change for the sake of change, deliberately changing game balance just to make people use different lists. Expect GW-style change for the sake of change, where the quality of changes is less important than keeping a constant supply of changes.
1). Some cards are calibrated more for certain modes of play than others. Luke (Gunner) is a great example of a card that is targeted—and costed toward—use at the casual level. It helps new players get a handle on the mechanics of turrets, but rewards them for “proper” use of the rotate action and good flying (because they can spend the Force point on modifications instead of rotation). However, its high cost means that taking it at a tournament level probably isn’t optimal for many builds.
JFC this is amazingly bad design. FFG is openly admitting to deliberately making a card that is too weak to play outside of newbie teaching games, and wasting one of the main characters in the setting for it! Apparently in 2.0 you aren't just going to buy ships and get cards that go straight into the trash can because of accidental balance issues, you're going to be throwing stuff away because FFG deliberately sold you unplayable trash. This is almost worse than GW, since at least GW has the decency to pretend that they're trying to get it right even if they're utterly incompetent at it.
Dice randomness might feel bad in the moment, but dice certainty makes for a weak game experience overall.
This is the exact opposite of the truth! Dice are the least interesting part of X-Wing, and the source of a great deal of frustration when the winner is determined by dice luck rather than superior flying. Heavy use of dice randomness is GW-style trash, where the main goal of the game is marketing to 10 year olds who don't know how to play a real game and can only hope to win (or have any fun) by lucking their way into a good result. But they keep buying, because they can win enough by sheer luck. It just sucks to be the veteran player and lose games because, despite out-flying your opponent decisively, the dice go against you. But I guess FFG is no longer concerned with making a quality game for veteran players.
whilst I'm usually on the wait and see fence, the AMA seems to, like P suggested, be a major swerve in design direction that seems to miss that part of why the game took off is that it wasn't 40k, that 40k was also in the gak vortex of suck that was mid-7th was a big boost early on, and like Solo (decent 3 star shenanigan's) proved there's some brand weariness floating about meaning that just being a Star Wars thing wont push a weak or average game (and I dont think TLJ or KK are to blame, the film and a bit each year dilutes the brand)
Peregrine wrote: Ugh, that AMA. I wasn't expecting them to answer any difficult questions (and mine were downvoted off the page because I dared to question our lord and savior 2.0), but this is some GW-level nonsense.
Dice randomness might feel bad in the moment, but dice certainty makes for a weak game experience overall.
This is the exact opposite of the truth! Dice are the least interesting part of X-Wing, and the source of a great deal of frustration when the winner is determined by dice luck rather than superior flying. Heavy use of dice randomness is GW-style trash, where the main goal of the game is marketing to 10 year olds who don't know how to play a real game and can only hope to win (or have any fun) by lucking their way into a good result. But they keep buying, because they can win enough by sheer luck. It just sucks to be the veteran player and lose games because, despite out-flying your opponent decisively, the dice go against you. But I guess FFG is no longer concerned with making a quality game for veteran players.
I disagree. The current level of dice certainty is ridiculous, to the point that it marginalises piloting ability. We've had things like Dengar/K4/Unhinged/Expertise, or Miranda with LRS/Rey, or Super Dash who can consistently get Focus and Target Lock, often getting at least one without actions, often regardless of bumping or stress. Moving away from that isn't a bad thing and it's a long way from saying removing dice certainty = luckiest player wins. What we'll likely see is that the more skilled players will be better at getting modified shots, better at making the right decisions about which actions to take and better at deciding when to spend tokens offensively or defensively. All of those incremental advantages gained through such good play will ultimately be the difference between winning and losing. Swings of luck might happen, but they'll be nowhere near as common as people think and rarely be the determining factor in games any more than they are at the moment.
Slipspace wrote: The current level of dice certainty is ridiculous, to the point that it marginalises piloting ability. We've had things like Dengar/K4/Unhinged/Expertise, or Miranda with LRS/Rey, or Super Dash who can consistently get Focus and Target Lock, often getting at least one without actions, often regardless of bumping or stress.
All of those are issues with 360* turrets, not dice modification. Take away the turret and force those ships to fire in arc like everyone else and it's back to being about piloting ability. Automatic maximum hits on your red dice doesn't mean anything unless you're good enough to get a target in your arc. Consider my beloved HLC gunboats. With a focus and re-roll on every shot (and crack shot to make those hits count) they very consistently roll maximum hits and rarely worse than 3/4. But they still require a lot of skill because they have no k-turn and no out of arc shot. If I out-fly you and get a target in their arcs I'm probably going to kill it. But if you out-fly me those gunboats are target practice and none of their dice modification matters.
Moving away from that isn't a bad thing and it's a long way from saying removing dice certainty = luckiest player wins.
It doesn't mean only that, but it sure pushes the game in that direction. Try playing the quick start rules as a veteran, you'll find that against anyone but the most clueless newbies (the kind of player who regularly makes a turn the wrong direction and flies off the board or onto a rock) skill is barely relevant and the winner is whoever gets dice luck at the right time. The 2.0 rules aren't bad to that extreme, but there will be a lot more games where the dice decide the outcome instead of player skill.
What we'll likely see is that the more skilled players will be better at getting modified shots, better at making the right decisions about which actions to take and better at deciding when to spend tokens offensively or defensively. All of those incremental advantages gained through such good play will ultimately be the difference between winning and losing.
Of course skill will matter, but the increase in randomness puts a lower ceiling on skill. And in some situations no amount of skill will help you, you will have to rely on unmodified dice and sheer luck. For example, an x-wing simply can't keep up with a TIE interceptor without using its own repositioning action (or red maneuvers that deny actions) to counter the interceptor's free repositioning action. You will have to roll unmodified dice, and success will be determined by how well you roll those dice. Roll all hits and you win. Roll 0-1 hits and you lose. Situations like this will become the norm, instead of only rolling unmodified dice when you screw up your maneuvering or have been forced to spend your modification resources and finally get overwhelmed.
And remember, the reward for flying well is a single token. It's very difficult to stack multiple dice modification effects, and normally requires a support ship to give up its own dice modification. The level of randomness in basic "everyone gets a focus" 1.0 dice is now the high-skill play in 2.0. Even when you fly well you still have a fair degree of randomness and vulnerability to bad rolls.
Swings of luck might happen, but they'll be nowhere near as common as people think and rarely be the determining factor in games any more than they are at the moment.
Strongly disagree. Luck is already a determining factor in a lot of games, and that's with much greater ability to mitigate luck. I can't even count the number of games where I've out-played my opponent completely and still lost because I rolled blanks turn after turn. Or the number of games where I've been completely outplayed and lucked into a win because the dice favored me. Hell, I just had one of those last night, my 1 HP gunboat had the green dice of god and removed two of my opponent's ships with its HLC long after it should have been dead. My opponent did everything right, set up quality shots where the odds of a PS kill were near-inevitable, and none of it mattered because my dice were too good. 2.0 is reducing luck mitigation, so these games will become more common. It doesn't take much for luck to swing a game when a single attack can cripple or destroy a ship.
If you want to.play an entirely unrandom game then there is chess. Xwing is a dice based game and hence the dice should mean something. If the effect of randomness goes up then the mitigation is having contingency measures in place and setting up.multiple shots with some flexibility in case the roll flubs. There is still.skill.in that.
streamdragon wrote: Calculate continues to be a garbage mechanic that fully demonstrates why fluff shouldn't be used to justify mechanics.
It nearly makes sense for Astro's and other lower class' of droid but for self-aware meatbag deleting artists like IG or 4-LOM it seems a downgrade, hopefully it'll come with a points drop (as rumours suggest you can squeeze 3 barebones IG's in a list)
Unlikely - some places have already had Store Championships, though most that I know of are taking place in the next 2 months, which is before the new edition is released. Pretty neat that the cards are useable in 1st and 2nd edition though.
Genoside07 wrote: Was in my FLGS today and they still had a ton of X-Wing stuff..
Do you think FFG will exchange 1st edition stuff for 2nd edition stuff or should we expect a big sale off here soon
They won't exchange it and you probably won't see many local store sales, but your 1.0 ships will be compatible with 2.0 once you buy the conversion kit. And you're going to have to buy the conversion kit. In fact, 1.0 ship + conversion kit parts is going to be the only way to play most of the game for the foreseeable future, as "true" 2.0 releases will be coming in waves over time. So I wouldn't expect to see much of a price change, if any.
Genoside07 wrote: Was in my FLGS today and they still had a ton of X-Wing stuff..
Do you think FFG will exchange 1st edition stuff for 2nd edition stuff or should we expect a big sale off here soon
Local stores might sell old stuff at a discount, but I doubt FFG will be involved. You'll just buy the old stuff and use your conversion kits to update them.
Genoside07 wrote: Was in my FLGS today and they still had a ton of X-Wing stuff..
Do you think FFG will exchange 1st edition stuff for 2nd edition stuff or should we expect a big sale off here soon
They won't exchange it and you probably won't see many local store sales, but your 1.0 ships will be compatible with 2.0 once you buy the conversion kit. And you're going to have to buy the conversion kit. In fact, 1.0 ship + conversion kit parts is going to be the only way to play most of the game for the foreseeable future, as "true" 2.0 releases will be coming in waves over time. So I wouldn't expect to see much of a price change, if any.
I have a feeling this will make 2.0 dead on arrival here. The confusion new players will have, and the realization that all the cardboard bits that come with the 1.0 ships are worthless will be disheartening.
Genoside07 wrote: Was in my FLGS today and they still had a ton of X-Wing stuff..
Do you think FFG will exchange 1st edition stuff for 2nd edition stuff or should we expect a big sale off here soon
They won't exchange it and you probably won't see many local store sales, but your 1.0 ships will be compatible with 2.0 once you buy the conversion kit. And you're going to have to buy the conversion kit. In fact, 1.0 ship + conversion kit parts is going to be the only way to play most of the game for the foreseeable future, as "true" 2.0 releases will be coming in waves over time. So I wouldn't expect to see much of a price change, if any.
I have a feeling this will make 2.0 dead on arrival here. The confusion new players will have, and the realization that all the cardboard bits that come with the 1.0 ships are worthless will be disheartening.
A good FLGS will make it absolutely clear to customers that this would be the case. I'd also expect online retailers to do the same. I'm not saying nobody will ever accidentally buy a 1st edition ship and not realise there's a 2nd edition been released but I'd think the number of times that happens will be incredibly small.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Peregrine will be happy to know Turd Phennir, his favourite pilot of all times, made the cut to 2.0.
It took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about, it's been so long since anyone has tried to claim that non-Fel interceptors (and even Fel TBH) are even remotely playable. But he's a much better option in 2.0. The crippling problem in 1.0 was the fact that using PTL shut off his pilot ability unless you could shoot before you needed your extra action, which was very difficult at PS 7. Now PTL is gone, and if you take stress from some other source you still get to use your pilot ability. And with the claim that PS will no longer be a linear cost increase the much more cost-efficient generics may see more use and being mid-PS might not be such a drawback.
Thanks for that, I couldn't be bothered to go through doing screen grabs in the end!
So my take aways, first off Cross faction stuff for both rebs and Imps that don't appear in their own conversion kits...
Second, I like pretty much everything else! Except how N'Dru got nerfed as I was looking forward to using it with the new Hounds Tooth title. Love the new Eval, K-fighters and Sycks both look alright, not sure about the JM5K as it looks like it might be nerfed into the ground but that will depend upon points, the Shadowcaster in all its variations looks excellent! Really looking forward to flying that with Eval, No k4 sucks, the range of illicits is a lot smaller than I expected and other than cloak I am not sure any of them look that great. Biggest thing for me is how great the Firespray looks, so much choice, so many worthwhile choices!
Though once again with out knowing how much any of this costs it doesn't mean a damn thing...
GenCon is next month? Wonder if the app will be released then with the core sets.
Any early combos concerning to people? I know its early, and without points it could be moot, but i'm curious if any power-combos are already jumping out at people from all these spoilers.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Any early combos concerning to people? I know its early, and without points it could be moot, but i'm curious if any power-combos are already jumping out at people from all these spoilers.
Not really. It all depends on the point costs, the difference between a combo that is meta-defining overpowered and a combo that is casual-night trash is the point costs. There's just no point in speculating about power levels until we get some costs.
KingmanHighborn wrote: I don't know I'm super disappointed at the low initiative numbers the Kimogila pilots have.
I suspect the overall lethality of the game will decrease significantly in 2nd edition so you'll see far fewer situations where a lower PS (or Initiative in this case) pilot is removed from the board before they can do anything as happens now against alpha-strike lists. So having a middling Initiative combined with a beefy ship won't be as bad as it is now. The main problem PS6-7 ships have right now is, without a really good ability, they pay too many points for their PS and gain very little advantage from it while being the perfect target to eat a bunch of harpoons.
Lethality may have decreased but the higher initiative is going to play an even larger role in getting out of opponent's arcs and setting up shots. It's why I think Soontir is going to be god tier again, as at 6 and with his manueverability getting him pinned down is going to be downright impossible for initiative 5 and lower. I really think you won't see any pilots in 4 or lower range and very few in the 5s in the tournament meta.
KingmanHighborn wrote: Lethality may have decreased but the higher initiative is going to play an even larger role in getting out of opponent's arcs and setting up shots. It's why I think Soontir is going to be god tier again, as at 6 and with his manueverability getting him pinned down is going to be downright impossible for initiative 5 and lower. I really think you won't see any pilots in 4 or lower range and very few in the 5s in the tournament meta.
I don't think that will be true if FFG do what they say they will and cost IN6 pilots very high to account for the huge advantage their IN gives them. As with any meta discussion about 2nd edition, we really have to wait and see what he points say before making any judgements.
Don't forget that barrel rolling has been curtailed a bit and Soontir's ability, which you pay for, wants him to have a target in his bulseye arc. If he keeps dodging at the price of not shooting, you're investing a ton of points n not attacking your opponent.
I'd go so far as say they'll wait until the second week of September. They might seriously think that people will be content with playing the threat levels for a month. It would not surprise me.
They have said that the release date for the app is the same as the street date for the core set (13th September), who knows if they will stick to that though.
Have they said anything yet on First Order and Resistance conversion packs? I would assume they'd be combined since the First Order only has 4 ships and the Resistance has 2 (3 if you count the falcon).
On a related note, have any other first order or resistance ships been announced? Other than the A-wing, I don't think there have been any other ships in the movies for resistance and I don't remember any different ships not already made for the first order.
The charge token is specific to the thing using it, you can have multiple instances of a ship having charge tokens and they do not form a pool, but are used each for their own thing (the opposite of how force charges work). Though there are instances of being able to regenerate charges from a different source (like reload on ordnance).
Stormonu wrote: I’m getting the conversion packs for Empire and Rebels, but the new prices pretty much kill me expanding my collection any more.
Also, have I seen correctly that the conversion packs don’t have ALL the existing pilots and these new packs have 1-2 new pilots to boot?
Yeah that is right, the extra pilots (and I presume upgrade cards) are supposed to be released separately in card and punch only packs. Though we so far have no info on when these are expected, whether they will be one per faction or one per wave nor how much they will cost. These extra packs are supposed to be released per wave.
I have a large collection of X-Wing stuff, and I'm really looking forward to 2nd Edition. Got a question- do I need to buy the new starter set or will I be fine just getting the conversion kits?
There is a new damage deck in 2.0, so you really need it. This can be had in the new Core, but if you preorder the core you get a free larger damage deck (so they may be had cheaper on ebay etc.).
2.0, your sins are forgiven. My beloved gunboats can now stack focus + re-roll on ordnance shots and do it after SLAMing. Action economy is not gone, it's just moved to the ships that deserve it.
It's been known for a while now that standard is 200 points.
Also I'm now no longer slightly salty at the Imperial Conversion Set only having enough components for 2 Defenders now, since 2 is all that can be fielded in Standard. As a plus Strikers and Bombers get access to Weapon Specialists, and Bombers have 2 Bomb Slots to boot.
Yeah I think it was first mentioned in one of the early Team Covenant videos?
Inferno Squad + Sloane & 7th Sister in a shuttle (Lambda or Reaper) does look to technically fit in 200pts... but that's basicallyall you get, there aren't enough points left for upgrades outside of like Crackshot (and even then only if you go with the cheaper pilots on the shuttles). Will probably still try flying it once but I imagine I'll be chopping 7th Sister out asap.
Had a fair few hours to digest this and overall it seems pretty damned good. Firstly the skyisfalling Dash, Luke gunner is nearly three quarters of a list, secondly the list I was hoping to cut my teeth on is very doable (Eval/Ventress/random z-95).
I am a bit surprised at how much of a premium they are putting on Force wielders, be they pilots or crew, it does seem pretty powerful but I wonder if they are being costed overly high. The JM5K seems to be too expensive but most of Scum feels about right, though both Virago and Moldy Crow are very pricey. Going to have a fun few weeks theory crafting lists!
I am a bit surprised at how much of a premium they are putting on Force wielders, be they pilots or crew, it does seem pretty powerful but I wonder if they are being costed overly high. The JM5K seems to be too expensive but most of Scum feels about right, though both Virago and Moldy Crow are very pricey. Going to have a fun few weeks theory crafting lists!
Yep that was my big takeaway from my peruse, I think they are leaning on overcosting Force as a precaution as a shiny new mechanic, if it doesn't turn out to be all that they can tweak it down
IMO force users are probably accurately costed. Remember, this is a new edition where action economy is deliberately limited and every force user has unrestricted action economy every turn. Stack focus and target lock? Done. Stack focus and evade? Done. Boost and still modify your dice? Done. It's effectively a free action every turn, without the various limits (stress, bullseye arc, etc) that other action economy buffs have. And that's not even considering having multiple force points for greater burst potential on a key turn or pilot/EPT abilities that give you a powerful way to spend your force points. Even a basic crew upgrade that gives +1 force point with no other text is powerful, when you get to do things like break the rules on turrets with a free rotate action (after everything has moved!) you have to have it be very expensive to match that power.
(Now, FFG could have avoided some of this cost issue by making force points only work on force abilities instead of general dice modification, but that's not how they did it.)
Force does indeed look very potent and I think you can see the general approach seems to be for FFG to be cautious in their costings, with a couple of outliers here and there. Wedge looks really good, for example. It's also interesting to note a few ships have gained some new upgrades - System slots on TAPs, Defenders and Gunboats are all new.
Peregrine wrote: IMO force users are probably accurately costed. Remember, this is a new edition where action economy is deliberately limited and every force user has unrestricted action economy every turn. Stack focus and target lock? Done. Stack focus and evade? Done. Boost and still modify your dice? Done. It's effectively a free action every turn, without the various limits (stress, bullseye arc, etc) that other action economy buffs have. And that's not even considering having multiple force points for greater burst potential on a key turn or pilot/EPT abilities that give you a powerful way to spend your force points. Even a basic crew upgrade that gives +1 force point with no other text is powerful, when you get to do things like break the rules on turrets with a free rotate action (after everything has moved!) you have to have it be very expensive to match that power.
(Now, FFG could have avoided some of this cost issue by making force points only work on force abilities instead of general dice modification, but that's not how they did it.)
Gonna have to play some through before I can really tell how good it ends up being (ie. worth the points) but it is worth mention that using a force charge modifies one eyeball to a hit or evade, and the pilots that have them have at most 2? charges with one regening each turn.
Still trawling through the costs/cards and it looks like swarmers are going to be a very strong option, going to have to try out a 5K list and see how it fairs.
Edit; though I am disappointed that the Scuurg has lost its missile/torp slots.
Also announced prequel/Clone Wars factions. Not sure how I feel about that. The First Order and Resistance are already looking a little bit light on ships and now we have 2 new factions to bring up to speed too. Also seems like an odd decision given the apparent focus on faction identity in the new edition.
I think it's fine. As I said (in another thread? Earlier in this one?) They can take their time re-releasing the 1.0 ships to keep the old factions slowly updated while they build up those new factions. I'd be down with that.
And I see what you did there, Ingtaer. Vewy funny.
Scroll to the bottom of the page and they are under support.
Interestingly it does specify that when recovering charges (be it Force or not) it specifies that each CARD recovers the charge, so force crew on a force pilot will recover 2 force each turn etc.
And just to make us keep the faith there is a day (minus 45) errata/FAQ of cards.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Whats this, my boy Omega Leader has a callsign other than Omega Leader now?
And Initiative 6 - putting him on a par with Poe, Soontir and Fenn Rau - and making him better than Kylo Ren!
No classic build with Juke anymore, though.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: No? Can he not take it anymore or does it not work the same? I havent really gotten a look at too much of the 2e stuff.
2.0 version says "the dice can't be modified" instead of "the target can't modify their dice". It's a subtle difference, but the new version prevents you from modifying the defender's dice and juke is dice modification.
I want to give the TAP a go with Seventh Sister and two generic Inquisitors to really get a sense of the Force as a points-sink.
I've alway been in love with the B-Wing, I want to see if the generic ones are worth it again. Is it going to be a race to Initiative 5 and up? Gosh I hope not.
Well, barrel roll has been nerfed a lot, meaning that it will be a lot harder to dodge multiple arcs, especially with rocks in play. Action economy on the whole has been hurt, with only the TIE Interceptor really able to barrel roll/boost in any order. A wing can barrel roll, then boost, but that does limit its options, and the Fang, Tie/v1 and Starviper lost the ability to do both in one turn. engine upgrade and vectored thrusters are gone, so you can't just add whichever action you are missing to your action bar.
In short, maneuver actions are not going to allow your ace to absolutely dominate the board anymore. This makes it a lot easier for the mid-PS guys to affect the game with their pilot abilities, or for generics via simple points efficiency.
Also, with everyone getting some sort of maneuver action, we no longer have guys who are just getting to shoot earlier with better pilot skill. With PS 9+(6) no longer being an auto-win, we will likely see fewer of them, so we may find out that it's worth it to bid for the PS 4-8(2-5) instead of 1, since we can now potentially dodge arcs with our mid-tier X-wing.
So I played a demo game of second ed for a store employee (2 blue squadron escorts with generic R5 vs. 2 Academy Pilots and a Reaper with Death Troopers) and it was still fun.
I then played a 200 pts game with Thane Kyrell, Norra Wexley and two basic B-Wings (in Ugg boots and leggings, too) against Luke Skywalker, Jake Farrell and two Green A-Wings. My opponent had horrible defense dice so he lost Jake to bad dice and then bad manoeuvres leaving him unable to reposition.
You think about your locks a lot more if you know you might lose your action. Focus becomes more prevalent. Norra is a punchy tank (she had an ion turret, a Vet gunner and expert handling)
Luke is an absolute beast to kill. He had a generic R2, limited the game to 60 minutes and was a very slow player, so I only got him to spend one charge on his R2. His Force regen for defence is great. In retrospect, he said he would rather have invested in Cluster Missiles rather than Prockets, as getting something in your bullseye arc take a bit of practice, and I lured him into the rocks, so he had to focus on not bumping, hitting anything, etc. CM would have been devastating to my rather tight formation.
The 1 Talon Roll is... eh? It is. How great remains to be seen.
Crazy_Carnifex wrote: Yeah, but unless you have a "Delete" button attack (think triple Jumpmasters), then it doesn't matter if your opponent survives to hit back harder.
It still matters a lot, because even when you don't get a kill on the first turn you set up PS kills on the following turn. For example, most of my games in today's tournament were against various low-PS alpha lists (PS 1 crack, PS 2 HLC gunboats). I had PS 4 HLC gunboats with crack, and even when I theoretically took more damage in the opening turn (the low-PS ships are cheaper and pack in more total red dice) and nothing died the following turns were often brutal. I'm fine with doing 3 damage to you and taking 4 in return if the next turn's 3 damage is a kill shot, giving me a 6 to 4 win in that exchange. I think this is going to be especially relevant in 2.0 because token stacking on defense is much rarer and much weaker, so ships are going to take damage. Once ships start running low on HP being able to PS kill a ship before it can return fire becomes extremely powerful.
Also, the "delete" button still exists in 2.0, it's just mostly moved to imperials. Gunboats and Redline can set up 4-damage torpedo shots with focus and target lock stacks, e-wings can do the same but are probably too expensive to be viable. Alpha strikes are IMO going to be a very relevant part of the meta.
Played a game using the Grand Inquisitor, Seventh Sister and a generic Inquisitor last night. Against, Redline, Rexler Brath and Colonel Jendon. The guy wasn't too optimised in his choices.
It was really fun, but you have to play super aggressive, but with supernatiral reflexes you can have both reposition manoeuvres, so you can evade arcs and dance around too much damage, but don,t expect to dish out too much damage.
Well I can't wait for 2.0 to arrive. Not long now.
With another core set coming out, providing another T-65, and the rebel conversion pack only supporting 2 x-wings. I was wondering if anyone else glued half of their old T-65s s-foils into the closed position? Swapping the models round to represent which state they're in. Or am I the only crazy person?
If you haven't done so yet, I'd like to add that if you carefully cut a quarter to half of the way into the wings, at the base. They work as folding S-foils. However I would expect them to fail/fall off after 10 - 100 uses. They work quite well, better than the x-wing in the Saws Renegades pack. If you were thinking about gluing them to the closed position, try this first. For a short time you can have moving s-foils and when they break glue them into the closed position.
I wonder if the B-wing will gain a configuration card for its s-foils and if it does will they redo the model to have moving parts.
Looking forward to flying Arvel Crynyd with intimidation. A fun little ship to fill a list. And A-wings can finally have missiles!!!! Yes!
So the day is finally here and so is x-wing 2.0. Got my delivery including the promo damage deck which many in OZ/NZ have been told they wont be getting due to FFG screwing up.
I wonder when the app will be released?
Looking around the various groups worldwide it is interesting to see just how much of a balls up FFG have made of this, Scum Falcon is delayed everywhere(?), loads of stores havent got the small ship expansions, others dont have Scum conversion kits and they didnt print enough of the promo damage decks... I have a bad feeling about this.
this app 
faux grumpage aside the 
Cross faction stuff for both rebs and Imps that don't appear in their own conversion kits...
