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George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 01:53:25


Post by: Breotan


Ah, the gift that keeps on giving.

Gal Tziperman Lotan wrote:George Zimmerman accused of stalking, threatening private investigator



ORLANDO, Fla. — George Zimmerman has been charged with stalking a private investigator who contacted him about a documentary series on Trayvon Martin produced by the rapper Jay-Z, court records show.

Zimmerman was charged with misdemeanor stalking through a summons delivered to him on Thursday, said Todd Brown, spokesman for the Brevard and Seminole County judicial circuit.

The private investigator told Seminole County deputies that he had contacted Zimmerman in September on behalf of the series' executive producer, Michael Gasparro, and gave Zimmerman his information.

Zimmerman soon called Gasparro and talked about the documentary series, which will be about 17-year-old Trayvon Martin's life and his 2012 death, for which Zimmerman was acquitted of second-degree murder.

The private investigator told deputies he did not hear from Zimmerman again until December. Gasparro called him and said Zimmerman was "extremely agitated" and sending Gasparro threatening messages, deputies wrote in the request for a warrant.

"(The private investigator) is a (expletive) WHO BOTHERED MY UNCLE IN HIS HOME. Local OR former law officer He's well on his way to the inside of a gator as well. 10-4?" Zimmerman wrote to Gasparro, using the police code to ask if he understood or acknowledged the message.

Between Dec. 16, 2017, and Christmas Day, the private investigator told deputies he got 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails from Zimmerman, records show.

When the investigator asked him to stop, Zimmerman texted "NO!" and then "Pursue charges," records show.

This is not the first time Zimmerman reportedly threatened to feed someone involved in the documentary series' production to an alligator: In December he made the same threat about Jay-Z himself.

"What I said is I would beat him as if I was Solange, and he would find himself coming out of the south side of a gator if he comes to Florida and bothers my family," Zimmerman told the Orlando Sentinel in December. Solange is the sister of Jay-Z's wife, Beyonce. Solange was captured on an elevator surveillance camera hitting Jay-Z after the Met Gala in 2014.

Zimmerman is scheduled for an arraignment May 30 in the Seminole County Courthouse.





George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 03:01:21


Post by: daedalus


When you have already kil... err, uh, "exercised yer freedoms" against someone, doesn't feeding someone to alligators start to become a credible threat?

Edit: Misspelled "yer".


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 10:28:02


Post by: Ouze


Why won't the libs leave this innocent man in peace?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 13:19:28


Post by: Tannhauser42


Anybody got the link to the Dakka Bingo card? I can't find it and I want to check to see if this wins it for me today.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 13:21:57


Post by: daedalus


http://www.grimdarkforge.com/bingo/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow, this could basically get me three in a row:
Zimmerman, "thugs", and "blame the victim".


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 14:37:31


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 17:56:29


Post by: cuda1179


Zimmerman went way overboard with repeated phone calls. That being said, other sites have stated there were multiple requests and contacts made to Zimmerman and his family about this "documentary".

Personally, I find any "documentary" put together by Jay-Z to have a less than average chance of being unbiased. I'd also be relatively upset if repeated attempts to interview me were made to either me or my extended family.

I'm not saying Zimmerman is a good guy, that he didn't do anything wrong, or that he didn't over react, but even loosers have a right to not be hounded.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:06:27


Post by: Desubot


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


Is that why Jay Z wanted to do a documentary on him?
wait a second.


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:09:25


Post by: feeder


 Desubot wrote:


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.



Nah, it's important we know where he lives. Wouldn't want to get shot for buying Skittles in his neighbourhood.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:12:51


Post by: Desubot


 feeder wrote:
 Desubot wrote:


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.



Nah, it's important we know where he lives. Wouldn't want to get shot for buying Skittles in his neighbourhood.


Isnt he in Florida? wasnt that enough warning not to go buy skittles anywhere in or around there?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:14:09


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Desubot wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


Is that why Jay Z wanted to do a documentary on him?
wait a second.


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.


Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:15:49


Post by: Desubot


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


Is that why Jay Z wanted to do a documentary on him?
wait a second.


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.


Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people


Well people could also stop trying to make him relevant. thats what i was going for.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:17:19


Post by: d-usa


Zimmerman does plenty on his own to get himself back in the spotlight over and over again.

Heck, I would argue that Casey Anthony was a much more notorious case but she has managed to not have even remotely near the attention that Zimmerman has managed to find himself in.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:21:18


Post by: Xenomancers


 Desubot wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


Is that why Jay Z wanted to do a documentary on him?
wait a second.


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.


Exactly.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:22:48


Post by: Desubot


 d-usa wrote:
Zimmerman does plenty on his own to get himself back in the spotlight over and over again.

Heck, I would argue that Casey Anthony was a much more notorious case but she has managed to not have even remotely near the attention that Zimmerman has managed to find himself in.


Well thats fair enough though i think its on the general media not to put on spot light on it otherwise you feed into what he wants.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:23:35


Post by: Xenomancers


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


Is that why Jay Z wanted to do a documentary on him?
wait a second.


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.


Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people

Just think about it for a second...does that make any sense? He's stalking a private investigator?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:25:01


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


Is that why Jay Z wanted to do a documentary on him?
wait a second.


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.


Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people

Just think about it for a second...does that make any sense? He's stalking a private investigator?

You tell me:
Between Dec. 16, 2017, and Christmas Day, the private investigator told deputies he got 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails from Zimmerman, records show.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:26:50


Post by: Desubot


Wait why would a production for a documentary use a PI to go get info instead of going directly to zimmerman.

honest question: is this normal procedure? wouldn't a production just ask for permission for an interview?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:33:15


Post by: Xenomancers


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Really, the man must be starving for media attention.


Is that why Jay Z wanted to do a documentary on him?
wait a second.


clearly the man is disturbed and the best thing to do is to let him disappear into obscurity.


Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people

Just think about it for a second...does that make any sense? He's stalking a private investigator?

You tell me:
Between Dec. 16, 2017, and Christmas Day, the private investigator told deputies he got 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails from Zimmerman, records show.
Does he have an Iphone? he could have just blocked the number after the first 3-4 calls and texts and said..."eh - I don't think he want's to cooperate with this documentary" (which ofc he didn't). Ofc though - he has an agenda. Which is to stir flames by poking a bear with a stick. I imagine Zimmerman is quite a paranoid man at this point and just wants to be left alone.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:33:19


Post by: Vaktathi


The dude is a living gak magnet, the sooner he learns to keep off the radar, or just disappear, the better for everyone. He seems to always need to take some situation he finds himself in and do his best Chappelle's show "when keeping it real goes wrong" impression.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:34:15


Post by: Xenomancers


 Desubot wrote:
Wait why would a production for a documentary use a PI to go get info instead of going directly to zimmerman.

honest question: is this normal procedure? wouldn't a production just ask for permission for an interview?

My assumption would be that they tried that and Zman told them to gak off. So they went to plan B.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:34:28


Post by: d-usa


 Desubot wrote:
Wait why would a production for a documentary use a PI to go get info instead of going directly to zimmerman.

honest question: is this normal procedure? wouldn't a production just ask for permission for an interview?


I'm guessing that even Zimmerman might not be dumb enough just go around and advertise:

G. Zimmerman
42 Wallaby Way
Sydney

So if you want to ask permission for an interview, you need to find him first. There is nothing illegal about finding a guy who wants to lay low.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:34:32


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people

Just think about it for a second...does that make any sense? He's stalking a private investigator?

You tell me:
Between Dec. 16, 2017, and Christmas Day, the private investigator told deputies he got 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails from Zimmerman, records show.
Does he have an Iphone? he could have just blocked the number after the first 3-4 calls and texts and said..."eh - I don't think he want's to cooperate with this documentary" (which ofc he didn't). Ofc though - he has an agenda. Which is to stir flames by poking a bear with a stick. I imagine Zimmerman is quite a paranoid man at this point and just wants to be left alone.

We've reached terminal victim blaming velocity captain!


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:36:24


Post by: Xenomancers


 Vaktathi wrote:
The dude is a living gak magnet, the sooner he learns to keep off the radar, or just disappear, the better for everyone. He seems to always need to take some situation he finds himself in and do his best Chappelle's show "when keeping it real goes wrong" impression.
I think the guy might be a little cuckoo - what do you think? Perhaps driven mad by hundreds of thousands of death threats and being the most hated man in america.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:37:11


Post by: d-usa


 Xenomancers wrote:
Does he have an Iphone? he could have just blocked the number after the first 3-4 calls and texts and said..."eh - I don't think he want's to cooperate with this documentary" (which ofc he didn't).


Is this the stalking and harrassment version of "she should have just said no and left her legs closed.

Ofc though - he has an agenda. Which is to stir flames by poking a bear with a stick. I imagine Zimmerman is quite a paranoid man at this point and just wants to be left alone.


I know when I want to be left alone I call people 55 times and sent them multiple texts and emails.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:37:20


Post by: Desubot


 d-usa wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
Wait why would a production for a documentary use a PI to go get info instead of going directly to zimmerman.

honest question: is this normal procedure? wouldn't a production just ask for permission for an interview?


I'm guessing that even Zimmerman might not be dumb enough just go around and advertise:

G. Zimmerman
42 Wallaby Way
Sydney

So if you want to ask permission for an interview, you need to find him first. There is nothing illegal about finding a guy who wants to lay low.


Well not saying it was illegal. also guess that makes sense though if he wanted to be left alone then he should of been left alone. he alone is fine and all but also contacting family and friends just puts pressure on a man that is definitely paranoid and probably is constantly harassed.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:38:34


Post by: d-usa


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The dude is a living gak magnet, the sooner he learns to keep off the radar, or just disappear, the better for everyone. He seems to always need to take some situation he finds himself in and do his best Chappelle's show "when keeping it real goes wrong" impression.
I think the guy might be a little cuckoo - what do you think? Perhaps driven mad by hundreds of thousands of death threats and being the most hated man in america.


Maybe he's always been a gakky human being. Maybe he was Father Theresa before he killed a guy. Maybe he's just a permanent victim of life.

We will never know...


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:39:24


Post by: Xenomancers


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people

Just think about it for a second...does that make any sense? He's stalking a private investigator?

You tell me:
Between Dec. 16, 2017, and Christmas Day, the private investigator told deputies he got 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails from Zimmerman, records show.
Does he have an Iphone? he could have just blocked the number after the first 3-4 calls and texts and said..."eh - I don't think he want's to cooperate with this documentary" (which ofc he didn't). Ofc though - he has an agenda. Which is to stir flames by poking a bear with a stick. I imagine Zimmerman is quite a paranoid man at this point and just wants to be left alone.

We've reached terminal victim blaming velocity captain!

Perhaps - hard to see a PI as being a victim ever. Again...when I don't want to talk to someone - I just block their number. It takes 12 seconds. Zimmermans crime here is victim-less.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:43:01


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people

Just think about it for a second...does that make any sense? He's stalking a private investigator?

You tell me:
Between Dec. 16, 2017, and Christmas Day, the private investigator told deputies he got 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails from Zimmerman, records show.
Does he have an Iphone? he could have just blocked the number after the first 3-4 calls and texts and said..."eh - I don't think he want's to cooperate with this documentary" (which ofc he didn't). Ofc though - he has an agenda. Which is to stir flames by poking a bear with a stick. I imagine Zimmerman is quite a paranoid man at this point and just wants to be left alone.

We've reached terminal victim blaming velocity captain!

Perhaps - hard to see a PI as being a victim ever. Again...when I don't want to talk to someone - I just block their number. It takes 12 seconds. Zimmermans crime here is victim-less.

Yes, stalking is always a victim-less crime


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:43:44


Post by: d-usa


 Xenomancers wrote:

When I don't want to talk to someone - I just block their number. It takes 12 seconds..


Makes you wonder if there is any possible way for Zimmerman to avoid being contacted by someone he doesn't want to talk to.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:48:45


Post by: Xenomancers


 d-usa wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Does he have an Iphone? he could have just blocked the number after the first 3-4 calls and texts and said..."eh - I don't think he want's to cooperate with this documentary" (which ofc he didn't).


Is this the stalking and harrassment version of "she should have just said no and left her legs closed.

Ofc though - he has an agenda. Which is to stir flames by poking a bear with a stick. I imagine Zimmerman is quite a paranoid man at this point and just wants to be left alone.


I know when I want to be left alone I call people 55 times and sent them multiple texts and emails.

Text message does not equal rape?

I think it's clear we don't have the whole story. Even taking this job from the likes of Jay-Z he is a certain kind of person with a certain agenda. Likely a person that hates Zimmerman - wants to expose him. How could you even try to deny this? Clearly not a credible source of anything. It is really no surprise to get a reaction like this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

When I don't want to talk to someone - I just block their number. It takes 12 seconds..


Makes you wonder if there is any possible way for Zimmerman to avoid being contacted by someone he doesn't want to talk to.


A PI is a professional spy - you realize that?

Plus - I'm not saying Zman didn't do anything wrong. I'm just saying - that figures.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:52:44


Post by: epronovost


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The dude is a living gak magnet, the sooner he learns to keep off the radar, or just disappear, the better for everyone. He seems to always need to take some situation he finds himself in and do his best Chappelle's show "when keeping it real goes wrong" impression.
I think the guy might be a little cuckoo - what do you think? Perhaps driven mad by hundreds of thousands of death threats and being the most hated man in america.


That certainly doesn't help mental equilibrium, but he was a bit bunker before that. He shot a kid after playing vigilante against the best advice of police and 911 services. These are not the actions of a sane and balanced man.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:55:20


Post by: Disciple of Fate


So now we have two crime denying threads on Dakka!


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 18:56:20


Post by: Vaktathi


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The dude is a living gak magnet, the sooner he learns to keep off the radar, or just disappear, the better for everyone. He seems to always need to take some situation he finds himself in and do his best Chappelle's show "when keeping it real goes wrong" impression.
I think the guy might be a little cuckoo - what do you think? Perhaps driven mad by hundreds of thousands of death threats and being the most hated man in america.
Methinks perhaps his underlying need to...escalate, as displayed in this instance, has probably been a factor ever at every step in his history. He really has gone out of his way to really *earn* that scorn.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:04:22


Post by: d-usa


Well, if the PI was harrassing Z, he could have contacted the police to handle it. But then, he’s always been in favor of extrajudicial solutions.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:05:37


Post by: Dandelion


 d-usa wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

When I don't want to talk to someone - I just block their number. It takes 12 seconds..


Makes you wonder if there is any possible way for Zimmerman to avoid being contacted by someone he doesn't want to talk to.



Well if the P.I. or documentary people are harassing his family I could see him or annyone lashing out. The messages Zman sent all involve "leave my family alone" type stuff from what I can see. This story seems very incomplete, so it's hard to say what actually happened. Right now it seems like he's stalking people who are stalking him.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:07:24


Post by: Xenomancers


epronovost wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The dude is a living gak magnet, the sooner he learns to keep off the radar, or just disappear, the better for everyone. He seems to always need to take some situation he finds himself in and do his best Chappelle's show "when keeping it real goes wrong" impression.
I think the guy might be a little cuckoo - what do you think? Perhaps driven mad by hundreds of thousands of death threats and being the most hated man in america.


That certainly doesn't help mental equilibrium, but he was a bit bunker before that. He shot a kid after playing vigilante against the best advice of police and 911 services. These are not the actions of a sane and balanced man.

He had a desire to defend his community for whatever reason. I'm not sure what encourages people to want to do that - could be insanity - could be a lot of things. It also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:12:25


Post by: daedalus


 Xenomancers wrote:
t also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


That didn't happen because Martin wasn't convicted of it.

Just check the other victim blaming thread.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:12:53


Post by: Disciple of Fate


It also sounds a lot less worse when you don't mention the fact that Zimmerman was actively 'stalking' Trayvon because he was black and based on the 911 transcript possibly even running after him. Wouldn't you feel threatened by that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 daedalus wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
t also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


That didn't happen because Martin wasn't convicted of it.

Just check the other victim blaming thread.


I shouldn't laugh but damn.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:13:28


Post by: Xenomancers


 d-usa wrote:
Well, if the PI was harrassing Z, he could have contacted the police to handle it. But then, he’s always been in favor of extrajudicial solutions.
Look on the bright side - he hasn't shot anyone in 7 years!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
It also sounds a lot less worse when you don't mention the fact that Zimmerman was actively 'stalking' Trayvon because he was black and based on the 911 transcript possibly even running after him. Wouldn't you feel threatened by that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 daedalus wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
t also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


That didn't happen because Martin wasn't convicted of it.

Just check the other victim blaming thread.


I shouldn't laugh but damn.

You know you lose all credibility in your argument when you say Zman was stalking him because he was black. Stalking is an interesting word choice too because it implies stealth/attempt to remain hidden. He confronted martin - that is the correct word choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 daedalus wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
t also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


That didn't happen because Martin wasn't convicted of it.

Just check the other victim blaming thread.

You lose all right to victim-hood when you throw the first punch when you could have easily run away.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:22:43


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
It also sounds a lot less worse when you don't mention the fact that Zimmerman was actively 'stalking' Trayvon because he was black and based on the 911 transcript possibly even running after him. Wouldn't you feel threatened by that?


You know you lose all credibility in your argument when you say Zman was stalking him because he was black. Stalking is an interesting word choice too because it implies stealth/attempt to remain hidden. He confronted martin - that is the correct word choice.


Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.



Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. gak, he's running [background noises, possibly car door open warning chimes, heard].
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...fething [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
t also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


That didn't happen because Martin wasn't convicted of it.

Just check the other victim blaming thread.

You lose all right to victim-hood when you throw the first punch when you could have easily run away.

That's not what the Stand-your-ground law says in Florida. Zimmerman was the one acting threatening up until that point. Its raining and dark and a guy is following and running after you, feth does that come across as threatening.

We all know how it ended, but there was absolutely no reason for Zimmerman to act the way he did. If he wasn't trying to play discount vigilante two people would have still been alive.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:28:42


Post by: Xenomancers


Okay so he described the guys physical appearance after being asked to do so? That's racist I suppose?

You realize he gets out of the car after that and approached martin - who decides to attack a short chubby Hispanic guy who had no chance to keep up with him right? In fact - I think I remember that he ambushed Zmann.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:32:25


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Xenomancers wrote:
Okay so he described the guys physical appearance after being asked to do so? That's racist I suppose?

You realize he gets out of the car after that and approached martin - who decides to attack a short chubby Hispanic guy who had no chance to keep up with him right? In fact - I think I remember that he ambushed Zmann.

Its more about the part he states before the question but whatever. Stalked was meant to be an (obvious) joke.

You realize he gets out of the car to follow Martin for zero reason as he already called the police. So Martin after being followed by a guy in a car starts running away, at which point the guy gets out of the car and runs after you? What would you think that guy's intentions are, ask you about the weather? Martin shouldn't have attacked Zimmerman, but most if not all of us would have also felt threatened by the actions of Zimmerman up until that point.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:33:00


Post by: d-usa


Zimmerman almost acted kind of like a PI, so he couldn’t have been the victim.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:34:16


Post by: reds8n


You lose all right to victim-hood when you throw the first punch when you could have easily run away. don't just ignore the guy trying to contact you and repeatedly spam his inbox..

or threaten to feed them to an alligator.






George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:45:58


Post by: epronovost


 Xenomancers wrote:

He had a desire to defend his community for whatever reason. I'm not sure what encourages people to want to do that - could be insanity - could be a lot of things. It also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


Why would the kid obey to the orders of some random dude in the streets? If someone tries to arrest me while I go buy skittles, I will tell him to zog off. If they insist, make threats or try to prevent me from moving away, I might be inclined to fight them and, if I was the kid, I would have been shot because I was winning that fight that I didn't wanted and didn't needed.

The community didn't ask Zimmerman help to defend itself. In fact, those appointed by the community to actively defend it told him to stay out of it as to not make the entire thing more dangerous. Self appointed vigilante are bullies who think they are righteous. He wasn't in Gotham City slums, he was in suburban area of Florida without much problems. The community wasn't even in danger. Zimmerman didn't shot a kid who was out to punch people in the face. He shot a kid who was minding his own business. Zimmerman made is community less safe by wide margin.

If you believe a self appointed vigilante without recognised credential, training, uniform or official authority who refuses to cooperate with and follow the lead of the police forces and 911 services will improve a communty's security. That's a sign of a seriously unhinged person with a certain fetishism for heroes that results in innocent dead people. If it sounds like a terrible idea for 99.9% of the population for evident reasons, if you are 0.1% left, you probably are immensly stupid or kinda bunker don't you think?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:47:43


Post by: Xenomancers


I don't have any problem with Zmann being charged for his actions in this case. Don't blow it out of proportion though because you hate the guy. PI's deal with this kind of stuff on a regular basis nor do we have any idea what the PI with an agenda did to encourage this kind of behavior.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:51:25


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Well that's what this case will probably show. But if PI who "deal[s] with this stuff on a regular basis" feels the need to go to court you know its not looking that good for Zimmerman.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:56:44


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Well he is in the news because of what he did, not because of Jay Z. He could have not threatened and stalked people

Just think about it for a second...does that make any sense? He's stalking a private investigator?

You tell me:
Between Dec. 16, 2017, and Christmas Day, the private investigator told deputies he got 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails from Zimmerman, records show.
Does he have an Iphone? he could have just blocked the number after the first 3-4 calls and texts and said..."eh - I don't think he want's to cooperate with this documentary" (which ofc he didn't). Ofc though - he has an agenda. Which is to stir flames by poking a bear with a stick. I imagine Zimmerman is quite a paranoid man at this point and just wants to be left alone.

We've reached terminal victim blaming velocity captain!

Perhaps - hard to see a PI as being a victim ever. Again...when I don't want to talk to someone - I just block their number. It takes 12 seconds. Zimmermans crime here is victim-less.


That would be the dumbest thing you could do in a situation like this. You want more evidence of him doing things like this so you can get protection in case he starts to escalate things. You don't want to destroy all the evidence, because then who would believe you? Pretty easy.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 19:59:37


Post by: epronovost


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Well that's what this case will probably show. But if PI who "deal[s] with this stuff on a regular basis" feels the need to go to court you know its not looking that good for Zimmerman.


55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails in about 10 days. Some of which are death threats from a dude who has already killed before. I know you can be pissed about someone investigating your past for a documentary, but that sounds excessive and pretty stupid. I would have warned authorities too. In Zimmerman situation, why not contact a lawyer to send the producers and the PI working for him a letter warning on breach of privacy and libel suits, while mentionning again that you are unwilling to participate on any documentary. It doesn't cost all that much.

I also agree that keeping records of such a thing is a very good idea in case Zimmerman was to decide to physically confront "the threat". He has an historic of poor jugement, violent and aggressive behaviors and a tendency to escalate confrontations. I would be very prudent around that guy and protect my rear. I mean the guy has fought against police officers over busting a friend for underage driking, been accused by two of his ex-girlfriend of domestic violence and threatening them with guns, he had to be removed from a bar after insulting the waitress and refusing to leave, etc.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 20:04:26


Post by: Disciple of Fate


epronovost wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Well that's what this case will probably show. But if PI who "deal[s] with this stuff on a regular basis" feels the need to go to court you know its not looking that good for Zimmerman.


55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails in about 10 days. Some of which are death threats from a dude who has already killed before. I know you can be pissed about someone investigating your past for a documentary, but that sounds excessive and pretty stupid. I would have warned authorities too. In Zimmerman situation, why not contact a lawyer to send the producers and the PI working for him a letter warning on breach of privacy and libel suits, while mentionning again that you are unwilling to participate on any documentary. It doesn't cost all that much.

I also agree that keeping records of such a thing is a very good idea in case Zimmerman was to decide to physically confront "the threat". He has an historic of poor jugement, violent and aggressive behavior and a tendency to escalate confrontations. I would be very prudent around that guy and protect my rear.

Well that would be the unreasonable thing to do according to some people, but what do I know, just today I learned that PI's apparently aren't people.

But in all seriousness, Zimmerman handled this in the absolute worst possible way. He contacted the PI almost 20 times in a single day, that's insane, doesn't that man have a job or something


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 20:22:32


Post by: Xenomancers


Serious question...Why does Zimmerman even have this guys phone number and email address?

Why would anyone give that information to a guy like Zimmerman?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 20:23:42


Post by: Disciple of Fate


I would assume that a PI would have contact information available somewhere, you know, because people need to be able to contact him so he can get paycheck.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 20:28:06


Post by: epronovost


 Xenomancers wrote:
Serious question...Why does Zimmerman even have this guys phone number and email address?

Why would anyone give that information to a guy like Zimmerman?


If he was trying to contact him to participate in a documentary on the Martin case, the PI had to give his contact informations to Zimmerman (which would include a phone and email address). Both are probably marked on the business card the PI gives around. If not, these are easy to find via an internet search. It's not that difficult to find those informations.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 20:30:09


Post by: Desubot


 Xenomancers wrote:
Serious question...Why does Zimmerman even have this guys phone number and email address?

Why would anyone give that information to a guy like Zimmerman?


Caller ID into a google search. a PI is not actually a spy or uses burner phone type things.

at least i would assume most PI dont.

edit: also above.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 20:48:26


Post by: Xenomancers


If your job is to investigate people - most of whom don't want to be investigated - I'd assume protecting your own personal information would be a chief concern. I mean heck - I take great effort in protecting my personal information on dates with strangers. I can't imagine professional would take even more risk with someone like Zmann. It makes no sense.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 20:53:33


Post by: d-usa


I know that I would never give my contact information to someone I am trying to get in touch with.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 21:00:26


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 Xenomancers wrote:
If your job is to investigate people - most of whom don't want to be investigated - I'd assume protecting your own personal information would be a chief concern. I mean heck - I take great effort in protecting my personal information on dates with strangers. I can't imagine professional would take even more risk with someone like Zmann. It makes no sense.

... So when you leave your date you do what? Mail her letters through the post office to ask for another one? Because it sure as hell sounds like a situation where the other party would need either a phone number or an email address. How did you even get into contact with the date in the first place...


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 21:21:45


Post by: TheAuldGrump


I've figured it out!

George Zimmerman is Florida Man!



The Auld Grump


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 23:39:48


Post by: Xenomancers


 d-usa wrote:
I know that I would never give my contact information to someone I am trying to get in touch with.
Yeah - after reading about the situation finally it makes more sense now. I guess I got caught up playing devils advocate there. When can we expect this documentary anyways?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
If your job is to investigate people - most of whom don't want to be investigated - I'd assume protecting your own personal information would be a chief concern. I mean heck - I take great effort in protecting my personal information on dates with strangers. I can't imagine professional would take even more risk with someone like Zmann. It makes no sense.

... So when you leave your date you do what? Mail her letters through the post office to ask for another one? Because it sure as hell sounds like a situation where the other party would need either a phone number or an email address. How did you even get into contact with the date in the first place...

Well - I don't give them my email address. Unlikely to even give them my last name until I find out they aren't a crazy person.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/08 23:47:16


Post by: LordofHats


Well at least no we know the guy can follow someone when he has no right to without instigating a deadly confrontation.

*runs for cover*


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 00:02:49


Post by: epronovost


 LordofHats wrote:
Well at least no we know the guy can follow someone when he has no right to without instigating a deadly confrontation.

*runs for cover*


the PI wasn't black /sarcams /darkhumor


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 00:56:35


Post by: Vulcan


 Ouze wrote:
Why won't the libs leave this innocent man in peace?


Because he's not?

He got out of his car and followed someone half his size down an unlit pathway. What did he expect Martin to do? Women aren't the only people who get raped. Martin just exercised HIS right to defend HIMSELF.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
epronovost wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The dude is a living gak magnet, the sooner he learns to keep off the radar, or just disappear, the better for everyone. He seems to always need to take some situation he finds himself in and do his best Chappelle's show "when keeping it real goes wrong" impression.
I think the guy might be a little cuckoo - what do you think? Perhaps driven mad by hundreds of thousands of death threats and being the most hated man in america.


That certainly doesn't help mental equilibrium, but he was a bit bunker before that. He shot a kid after playing vigilante against the best advice of police and 911 services. These are not the actions of a sane and balanced man.

He had a desire to defend his community for whatever reason. I'm not sure what encourages people to want to do that - could be insanity - could be a lot of things. It also sounds a lot worse when you don't mention the fact that the kid he shot was on top of him and beating him.


It seems a lot better when you mention he followed the kid half his size around in his car, then got out of his car to follow the kid down an unlit path.

A kid half his size.

While he claim to be MMA trained.

Sorry, Z-man, you went looking for trouble and FOUND IT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:

You lose all right to victim-hood when you throw the first punch when you could have easily run away.


Except we have exactly ONE person's word - Zimmermans - and zero video or physical evidence that Martin threw the first punch. And we can safely assume Zimmerman has a VERY strong interest in making Martin look bad, making him a decidedly biased witness.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 01:11:43


Post by: cuda1179


 Vulcan wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Why won't the libs leave this innocent man in peace?


Because he's not?

He got out of his car and followed someone half his size down an unlit pathway. What did he expect Martin to do? Women aren't the only people who get raped. Martin just exercised HIS right to defend HIMSELF.


Martin was NOT half the size of Zimmerman. Martin was a good deal taller and much more in shape. Also what came out in the trial was that Martin thought Zimmerman was homosexual and told his friend on the phone he was going to teach him a lesson. Even in Florida with their stand-your-ground laws you have no obligation to retreat, but if you do retreat to safety, and then intentionally reengage you open yourself up to liability.


As for this PI, how many times has the PI tried to call Zimmerman before Zimmerman harassed him? It's never mentioned. Was it once, twice, 50 times? How many times did he call Zimmerman's relatives? I once had a collection agent calling me for over a month (not me, wrong person, same name). I eventually cracked on them too.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 01:20:31


Post by: d-usa


Well, maybe someday Zimmerman will let the law handle just one of his problems rather than going off the deep end getting charges filed against him.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 01:23:00


Post by: cuda1179


Well, he did pull that one guy out of a Car Wreck, so not all of his publicity has been bad.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 01:45:10


Post by: sebster


I wonder if this is how the OJ Simpson backers felt in the years after his acquittal?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 01:49:52


Post by: Prestor Jon


Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The DA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 01:57:15


Post by: cuda1179


Prestor Jon wrote:
Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The FA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.


Thanks for pointing this out.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 03:13:52


Post by: Relapse


 cuda1179 wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Why won't the libs leave this innocent man in peace?


Because he's not?

He got out of his car and followed someone half his size down an unlit pathway. What did he expect Martin to do? Women aren't the only people who get raped. Martin just exercised HIS right to defend HIMSELF.


Martin was NOT half the size of Zimmerman. Martin was a good deal taller and much more in shape. Also what came out in the trial was that Martin thought Zimmerman was homosexual and told his friend on the phone he was going to teach him a lesson. Even in Florida with their stand-your-ground laws you have no obligation to retreat, but if you do retreat to safety, and then intentionally reengage you open yourself up to liability.


As for this PI, how many times has the PI tried to call Zimmerman before Zimmerman harassed him? It's never mentioned. Was it once, twice, 50 times? How many times did he call Zimmerman's relatives? I once had a collection agent calling me for over a month (not me, wrong person, same name). I eventually cracked on them too.


That’s what I was wondering. If the investigator was harassing him and his family over what is obviously a sensitive topic, then it could be understood why Zimmerman was triggered.
Not saying the response was appropriate, but understandable how he could have been motivated.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 04:36:17


Post by: Ouze


 cuda1179 wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Why won't the libs leave this innocent man in peace?


Because he's not?

He got out of his car and followed someone half his size down an unlit pathway. What did he expect Martin to do? Women aren't the only people who get raped. Martin just exercised HIS right to defend HIMSELF.


Martin was NOT half the size of Zimmerman. Martin was a good deal taller and much more in shape. Also what came out in the trial was that Martin thought Zimmerman was homosexual and told his friend on the phone he was going to teach him a lesson.


Are you sure that last part came out in the trial there? Are you sure you're not repeating something Rush Limbaugh invented?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 04:46:55


Post by: sebster


 Ouze wrote:
Are you sure that last part came out in the trial there? Are you sure you're not repeating something Rush Limbaugh invented?


Rush Limbaugh and also Drudge, if I can remember my schlock right wing liars correctly. I think in Jeantel's testimony she said Zimmerman might be a rapist which is a problem for any guy who's not in to that, or something like that, because what the Zimmerman trial had lacked up to that point was some casual homophobia.

Rush and co then took that as what Martin himself was thinking and declaring it was 'proof' that Martin confronted Zimmerman and his motivation why, because those guys are liars. And then people who listen to those liars come here and repeat it.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 06:07:49


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Prestor Jon wrote:
Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The DA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.

I don't think we are. The point was that Xenomancers did not include the full story of what occured up to that point. We might never know what exactly happened. But it isn't a stretch to say that Zimmerman acted very threatening on that evening. Put the scenario of a man following you in his car and when you run he starts running after you to anyone and see what their response is. I asked my partner and she said what boils down to "this is how I'm going to get raped/murdered."


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 10:14:44


Post by: Prestor Jon


 sebster wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Are you sure that last part came out in the trial there? Are you sure you're not repeating something Rush Limbaugh invented?


Rush Limbaugh and also Drudge, if I can remember my schlock right wing liars correctly. I think in Jeantel's testimony she said Zimmerman might be a rapist which is a problem for any guy who's not in to that, or something like that, because what the Zimmerman trial had lacked up to that point was some casual homophobia.

Rush and co then took that as what Martin himself was thinking and declaring it was 'proof' that Martin confronted Zimmerman and his motivation why, because those guys are liars. And then people who listen to those liars come here and repeat it.


Jenteal states that she suggested to Martin that Zimmerman might be a rapist but Martin dismissed that concern.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/26/cnr.10.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The DA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.

I don't think we are. The point was that Xenomancers did not include the full story of what occured up to that point. We might never know what exactly happened. But it isn't a stretch to say that Zimmerman acted very threatening on that evening. Put the scenario of a man following you in his car and when you run he starts running after you to anyone and see what their response is. I asked my partner and she said what boils down to "this is how I'm going to get raped/murdered."


Believing that you are being followed doesnt justify the use of force or assaulting somebody. Zimmerman’s injuries, the bullet wound that killed Martin and the trajectory of that shot along with other physical evidence all supports Zimmerman’s account of being assaulted by Martin and shooting in self defense while Martin was on top of him and beating him. That’s why he wasn’t initially charged and that’s why he was acquitted at his trial.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 10:18:55


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Prestor Jon wrote:
 sebster wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Are you sure that last part came out in the trial there? Are you sure you're not repeating something Rush Limbaugh invented?


Rush Limbaugh and also Drudge, if I can remember my schlock right wing liars correctly. I think in Jeantel's testimony she said Zimmerman might be a rapist which is a problem for any guy who's not in to that, or something like that, because what the Zimmerman trial had lacked up to that point was some casual homophobia.

Rush and co then took that as what Martin himself was thinking and declaring it was 'proof' that Martin confronted Zimmerman and his motivation why, because those guys are liars. And then people who listen to those liars come here and repeat it.


Jenteal states that she suggested to Martin that Zimmerman might be a rapist but Martin dismissed that concern.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/26/cnr.10.html

Well take rape of the table and we're only left with the options of being mugged, violently mugged, stabbed, shot etc. etc. Again, its evening time and possibly getting dark and a man follows you in bis car and then runs after you, what would you think his intentions are? It wasn't a smart move to follow the guy like that, its why Martin ended up dead. If Zimmerman hadn't pursued, two people would still be alive.

I think the issue was more with the "he attacked him out of homophobia" statement


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The DA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.

I don't think we are. The point was that Xenomancers did not include the full story of what occured up to that point. We might never know what exactly happened. But it isn't a stretch to say that Zimmerman acted very threatening on that evening. Put the scenario of a man following you in his car and when you run he starts running after you to anyone and see what their response is. I asked my partner and she said what boils down to "this is how I'm going to get raped/murdered."


Believing that you are being followed doesnt justify the use of force or assaulting somebody. Zimmerman’s injuries, the bullet wound that killed Martin and the trajectory of that shot along with other physical evidence all supports Zimmerman’s account of being assaulted by Martin and shooting in self defense while Martin was on top of him and beating him. That’s why he wasn’t initially charged and that’s why he was acquitted at his trial.

I never said that violence should have been used. The self defence excuse is so hilarious, he had to go out of his way to get into the fight with Martin, self defense at that exact moment or not.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 10:36:09


Post by: Prestor Jon


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Spoiler:
Prestor Jon wrote:
 sebster wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Are you sure that last part came out in the trial there? Are you sure you're not repeating something Rush Limbaugh invented?


Rush Limbaugh and also Drudge, if I can remember my schlock right wing liars correctly. I think in Jeantel's testimony she said Zimmerman might be a rapist which is a problem for any guy who's not in to that, or something like that, because what the Zimmerman trial had lacked up to that point was some casual homophobia.

Rush and co then took that as what Martin himself was thinking and declaring it was 'proof' that Martin confronted Zimmerman and his motivation why, because those guys are liars. And then people who listen to those liars come here and repeat it.


Jenteal states that she suggested to Martin that Zimmerman might be a rapist but Martin dismissed that concern.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/26/cnr.10.html

Well take rape of the table and we're only left with the options of being mugged, violently mugged, stabbed, shot etc. etc. Again, its evening time and possibly getting dark and a man follows you in bis car and then runs after you, what would you think his intentions are? It wasn't a smart move to follow the guy like that, its why Martin ended up dead. If Zimmerman hadn't pursued, two people would still be alive.

I think the issue was more with the "he attacked him out of homophobia" statement


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The DA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.

I don't think we are. The point was that Xenomancers did not include the full story of what occured up to that point. We might never know what exactly happened. But it isn't a stretch to say that Zimmerman acted very threatening on that evening. Put the scenario of a man following you in his car and when you run he starts running after you to anyone and see what their response is. I asked my partner and she said what boils down to "this is how I'm going to get raped/murdered."


Believing that you are being followed doesnt justify the use of force or assaulting somebody. Zimmerman’s injuries, the bullet wound that killed Martin and the trajectory of that shot along with other physical evidence all supports Zimmerman’s account of being assaulted by Martin and shooting in self defense while Martin was on top of him and beating him. That’s why he wasn’t initially charged and that’s why he was acquitted at his trial.

I never said that violence should have been used. The self defence excuse is so hilarious, he had to go out of his way to get into the fight with Martin, self defense at that exact moment or not.


Initiating a confrontation with a strange because you think you’re being followed isn’t aomething I would advise anyone to do. Calling the police to report it while proceeding to your destination as quickly as possible is the smart move. Picking a fight with a stranger is always a roll of the dice that you could lose in spectacular fashion.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 10:46:03


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Prestor Jon wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Spoiler:
Prestor Jon wrote:
 sebster wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Are you sure that last part came out in the trial there? Are you sure you're not repeating something Rush Limbaugh invented?


Rush Limbaugh and also Drudge, if I can remember my schlock right wing liars correctly. I think in Jeantel's testimony she said Zimmerman might be a rapist which is a problem for any guy who's not in to that, or something like that, because what the Zimmerman trial had lacked up to that point was some casual homophobia.

Rush and co then took that as what Martin himself was thinking and declaring it was 'proof' that Martin confronted Zimmerman and his motivation why, because those guys are liars. And then people who listen to those liars come here and repeat it.


Jenteal states that she suggested to Martin that Zimmerman might be a rapist but Martin dismissed that concern.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/26/cnr.10.html

Well take rape of the table and we're only left with the options of being mugged, violently mugged, stabbed, shot etc. etc. Again, its evening time and possibly getting dark and a man follows you in bis car and then runs after you, what would you think his intentions are? It wasn't a smart move to follow the guy like that, its why Martin ended up dead. If Zimmerman hadn't pursued, two people would still be alive.

I think the issue was more with the "he attacked him out of homophobia" statement


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The DA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.

I don't think we are. The point was that Xenomancers did not include the full story of what occured up to that point. We might never know what exactly happened. But it isn't a stretch to say that Zimmerman acted very threatening on that evening. Put the scenario of a man following you in his car and when you run he starts running after you to anyone and see what their response is. I asked my partner and she said what boils down to "this is how I'm going to get raped/murdered."


Believing that you are being followed doesnt justify the use of force or assaulting somebody. Zimmerman’s injuries, the bullet wound that killed Martin and the trajectory of that shot along with other physical evidence all supports Zimmerman’s account of being assaulted by Martin and shooting in self defense while Martin was on top of him and beating him. That’s why he wasn’t initially charged and that’s why he was acquitted at his trial.

I never said that violence should have been used. The self defence excuse is so hilarious, he had to go out of his way to get into the fight with Martin, self defense at that exact moment or not.


Initiating a confrontation with a strange because you think you’re being followed isn’t aomething I would advise anyone to do. Calling the police to report it while proceeding to your destination as quickly as possible is the smart move. Picking a fight with a stranger is always a roll of the dice that you could lose in spectacular fashion.

Just like Zimmerman was told not to follow him? Martin did not make the smartest decision, but Zimmerman definitely picked the fight. Wannabe Batman survived and somebody else had to pay the price for his fantasies.

Legally there was no case because you only had one witness and not much else. But practically speaking if it wasn't for Batman trolling the streets, Martin would still be alive.

Also "think you're being followed"? We have the transcript of Zimmerman admitting he was following him, there was nothing 'think' about it.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 11:01:01


Post by: cuda1179


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
[Just like Zimmerman was told not to follow him?t.


Zimmerman was NEVER told not to follow Martin. He asked if he should follow him, and was told it wasn't necessary, but never ordered to not do it.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 11:06:58


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 cuda1179 wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
[Just like Zimmerman was told not to follow him?t.


Zimmerman was NEVER told not to follow Martin. He asked if he should follow him, and was told it wasn't necessary, but never ordered to not do it.

He was told he shouldn't.

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.

But whatever absolves Zimmerman of his part in this?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 11:38:06


Post by: Prestor Jon


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Spoiler:
Prestor Jon wrote:
 sebster wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
Are you sure that last part came out in the trial there? Are you sure you're not repeating something Rush Limbaugh invented?


Rush Limbaugh and also Drudge, if I can remember my schlock right wing liars correctly. I think in Jeantel's testimony she said Zimmerman might be a rapist which is a problem for any guy who's not in to that, or something like that, because what the Zimmerman trial had lacked up to that point was some casual homophobia.

Rush and co then took that as what Martin himself was thinking and declaring it was 'proof' that Martin confronted Zimmerman and his motivation why, because those guys are liars. And then people who listen to those liars come here and repeat it.


Jenteal states that she suggested to Martin that Zimmerman might be a rapist but Martin dismissed that concern.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/26/cnr.10.html

Well take rape of the table and we're only left with the options of being mugged, violently mugged, stabbed, shot etc. etc. Again, its evening time and possibly getting dark and a man follows you in bis car and then runs after you, what would you think his intentions are? It wasn't a smart move to follow the guy like that, its why Martin ended up dead. If Zimmerman hadn't pursued, two people would still be alive.

I think the issue was more with the "he attacked him out of homophobia" statement


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
Are we seriously going to rehash the Zimmerman trial all over again? The initial response from the police upon examining the scene and interviewing Zimmerman was that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with a crime. The DA bowed to public pressure and pressed charges anyway and the evidence submitted in court didn’t support the charges and Zimmerman was acquitted. We’ve been over this all before and the facts don’t change.

I don't think we are. The point was that Xenomancers did not include the full story of what occured up to that point. We might never know what exactly happened. But it isn't a stretch to say that Zimmerman acted very threatening on that evening. Put the scenario of a man following you in his car and when you run he starts running after you to anyone and see what their response is. I asked my partner and she said what boils down to "this is how I'm going to get raped/murdered."


Believing that you are being followed doesnt justify the use of force or assaulting somebody. Zimmerman’s injuries, the bullet wound that killed Martin and the trajectory of that shot along with other physical evidence all supports Zimmerman’s account of being assaulted by Martin and shooting in self defense while Martin was on top of him and beating him. That’s why he wasn’t initially charged and that’s why he was acquitted at his trial.

I never said that violence should have been used. The self defence excuse is so hilarious, he had to go out of his way to get into the fight with Martin, self defense at that exact moment or not.


Initiating a confrontation with a strange because you think you’re being followed isn’t aomething I would advise anyone to do. Calling the police to report it while proceeding to your destination as quickly as possible is the smart move. Picking a fight with a stranger is always a roll of the dice that you could lose in spectacular fashion.

Just like Zimmerman was told not to follow him? Martin did not make the smartest decision, but Zimmerman definitely picked the fight. Wannabe Batman survived and somebody else had to pay the price for his fantasies.

Legally there was no case because you only had one witness and not much else. But practically speaking if it wasn't for Batman trolling the streets, Martin would still be alive.

Also "think you're being followed"? We have the transcript of Zimmerman admitting he was following him, there was nothing 'think' about it.


From Martins perspective and generally for anyone being followed they think they’re being followed but can’t know for sure unless they interact with the person they think is following them.

Legally there was no case because the facts and physical evidence supported Zimmerman’s self defense justification.

It’s not illegal to follow somebody, it’s not a course of action that I would recommend or condone but people are free to do it. Likewise following the directions of 911 dispatchers is a good idea but the dispatchers don’t have any authority to command you to do anything.

There is no evidence of Zimmerman doing anything illegal and the evidence supports his claim of being assaulted by Martin. If Martin doesn’t create the confrontation he doesn’t get shot.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 11:51:38


Post by: Relapse


And so the circular talk on this is again engaged.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 11:59:03


Post by: Disciple of Fate


It doesn't need to, because there is no point. Lets just say we disagree on the amount of responsibility Zimmerman carries in causing the confrontation. The whole outcome and trial left aside.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 12:12:22


Post by: Ouze


 cuda1179 wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
[Just like Zimmerman was told not to follow him?t.


Zimmerman was NEVER told not to follow Martin. He asked if he should follow him, and was told it wasn't necessary, but never ordered to not do it.


Hey, are you going to cop to that "Zimmerman was the attempted victim of a gay bashing" bs balloon you tried to float earlier in this thread, or are we expected to pretend you didn't trial that?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 12:30:03


Post by: Prestor Jon


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
It doesn't need to, because there is no point. Lets just say we disagree on the amount of responsibility Zimmerman carries in causing the confrontation. The whole outcome and trial left aside.


It definitely takes two to tango and Zimmerman didn’t exercise the best judgement. I don’t think Zimmerman wanted a confrontation and I think Martin wanted to confront whomever was following him and teach him a lesson. Zimmerman initiated the chain of events and Martin escalated it to violence.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 12:34:27


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Prestor Jon wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
It doesn't need to, because there is no point. Lets just say we disagree on the amount of responsibility Zimmerman carries in causing the confrontation. The whole outcome and trial left aside.


It definitely takes two to tango and Zimmerman didn’t exercise the best judgement. I don’t think Zimmerman wanted a confrontation and I think Martin wanted to confront whomever was following him and teach him a lesson. Zimmerman initiated the chain of events and Martin escalated it to violence.

And so the circular talk is solved by a mutual understanding


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:03:53


Post by: skyth


Zimmerman obviously wanted a confrontation. Then like the coward he is, he pulled a gun once he started losing.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:04:22


Post by: cuda1179


 Ouze wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
[Just like Zimmerman was told not to follow him?t.


Zimmerman was NEVER told not to follow Martin. He asked if he should follow him, and was told it wasn't necessary, but never ordered to not do it.


Hey, are you going to cop to that "Zimmerman was the attempted victim of a gay bashing" bs balloon you tried to float earlier in this thread, or are we expected to pretend you didn't trial that?


I'll admit I misremembered the facts of a 6 year old case and partially got it wrong. Martin's friend did admit to bringing up the "gay rapist" narrative though.

Just wondering if you are going to be calling out anyone else in this thread for not being totally accurate?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
[Just like Zimmerman was told not to follow him?t.


Zimmerman was NEVER told not to follow Martin. He asked if he should follow him, and was told it wasn't necessary, but never ordered to not do it.

He was told he shouldn't.

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.

But whatever absolves Zimmerman of his part in this?



I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:19:30


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 cuda1179 wrote:

I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.

What description, young man in hoodie? How many people would fit such descriptions. A few years ago half of the friends I had could fit the hoodie description. How did Zimmerman know he didn't live there etc etc. Zimmerman playing wannabe batman is the donkey cave for going out with a gun looking for trouble in the first place. He could have waited for the police. Its a wonder his personality hasn't led him to even more trouble by now.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:25:40


Post by: Ouze


 cuda1179 wrote:
Just wondering if you are going to be calling out anyone else in this thread for not being totally accurate?


No, just the really egregious examples of historical revisionism.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:42:34


Post by: Prestor Jon


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:

I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.

What description, young man in hoodie? How many people would fit such descriptions. A few years ago half of the friends I had could fit the hoodie description. How did Zimmerman know he didn't live there etc etc. Zimmerman playing wannabe batman is the donkey cave for going out with a gun looking for trouble in the first place. He could have waited for the police. Its a wonder his personality hasn't led him to even more trouble by now.


Short of needing to save somebody being victimized by a crime in progress it's always better to let the police handle things. The liability you take on for inserting yourself in a situation you don't need to be involved in isn't worth it. Zimmerman has brought a lot of trouble on himself because of doing this which is highlighted by this most recent example. If you feel you are being harassed by a PI or anyone, you should document the harassment and call the police and inform them of the harassment. Making threats and trying to take matters into your own hands is never a good idea it just makes things more difficult for yourself.

I've spoken about this with my wife often because every spring/summer we tend to get suspicious people coming through our neighborhood looking to get hired to do yardwork, frequently they don't have business cards or equipment and a penchant for walking around a house and looking in the windows to see if anyone is home instead of ringing the doorbell. I tell me wife to please call the police if anyone makes her suspicious and to never confront anyone herself. If you confront somebody who is up to no good you put yourself in a very vulnerable situation and if you confront somebody who isn't dangerous there's still no benefit to yourself. The risk isn't worth it.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:46:55


Post by: d-usa


We have the Nextdoor app to do our community policing for us here. It’s always an entertaining clusterfeth to read the posts and conversations on there.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:51:36


Post by: Prestor Jon


 d-usa wrote:
We have the Nextdoor app to do our community policing for us here. It’s always an entertaining clusterfeth to read the posts and conversations on there.


I got voluntold to add the Nextdoor app so I did. It certainly cast my neighborhood area in a new light for me. Pretty much every day I see a thread in which I want to post that if you don't want your dogs to become lost then you really shouldn't set them loose to run free range.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 13:56:56


Post by: d-usa


it’s a much more intimate Facebook with your neighbors, and not in a good way...


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:00:24


Post by: cuda1179


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:

I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.

What description, young man in hoodie? How many people would fit such descriptions. A few years ago half of the friends I had could fit the hoodie description. How did Zimmerman know he didn't live there etc etc. Zimmerman playing wannabe batman is the donkey cave for going out with a gun looking for trouble in the first place. He could have waited for the police. Its a wonder his personality hasn't led him to even more trouble by now.


There was more to the description than "guy in a hoodie". Young black male, not of the neighborhood, occurring at night. Add to that that Zimmerman saw him jump a security fence to gain access to the neighborhood, saw him ducking between houses, and thought he was looking in windows. Yeah, that would make me suspicious too.

And to answer your question, young, black, and male in and of itself all ready puts things into the 2% of the population. Factoring in that this was a fairly high end neighborhood, it likely drops well below that.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:01:14


Post by: daedalus


I don't like that I can't see what I'm signing up to enjoy with it. Given my location and the kinds of people around me, I can only imagine it's like a less trashy more crazy version of our local craigslist.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:04:07


Post by: d-usa


You could be half right!


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:04:34


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Prestor Jon wrote:
Short of needing to save somebody being victimized by a crime in progress it's always better to let the police handle things. The liability you take on for inserting yourself in a situation you don't need to be involved in isn't worth it. Zimmerman has brought a lot of trouble on himself because of doing this which is highlighted by this most recent example. If you feel you are being harassed by a PI or anyone, you should document the harassment and call the police and inform them of the harassment. Making threats and trying to take matters into your own hands is never a good idea it just makes things more difficult for yourself.

I've spoken about this with my wife often because every spring/summer we tend to get suspicious people coming through our neighborhood looking to get hired to do yardwork, frequently they don't have business cards or equipment and a penchant for walking around a house and looking in the windows to see if anyone is home instead of ringing the doorbell. I tell me wife to please call the police if anyone makes her suspicious and to never confront anyone herself. If you confront somebody who is up to no good you put yourself in a very vulnerable situation and if you confront somebody who isn't dangerous there's still no benefit to yourself. The risk isn't worth it.
Fully agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 cuda1179 wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:

I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.

What description, young man in hoodie? How many people would fit such descriptions. A few years ago half of the friends I had could fit the hoodie description. How did Zimmerman know he didn't live there etc etc. Zimmerman playing wannabe batman is the donkey cave for going out with a gun looking for trouble in the first place. He could have waited for the police. Its a wonder his personality hasn't led him to even more trouble by now.


There was more to the description than "guy in a hoodie". Young black male, not of the neighborhood, occurring at night. Add to that that Zimmerman saw him jump a security fence to gain access to the neighborhood, saw him ducking between houses, and thought he was looking in windows. Yeah, that would make me suspicious too.

Or so he said. He might have still lived there, you know, because young people never stay out too late or such, never jump fences or do things they shouldn't do? So Zimmerman knew all the people who lived there? Etc etc. The vagueness of Zimmerman of young black man not from around to justify his vigilantism is not very convincing. One question, did Martin actually commit a crime there?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 cuda1179 wrote:

And to answer your question, young, black, and male in and of itself all ready puts things into the 2% of the population. Factoring in that this was a fairly high end neighborhood, it likely drops well below that.

So it basically boils down to him being black, good to know.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:30:19


Post by: cuda1179


Don't tell me you are one of those people that think that race shouldn't be used in a suspect's description? Being Black isn't a crime, but if a burglar is described as African American I'm not going to be looking out for an Oriental.

Yes, jumping a fence and ducking between houses is suspicious when there is a spring of robberies in the area. It's not illegal, but I can see how it can catch someone's attention. And just a little FYI, Zimmerman didn't bring up race until prompted by the dispatcher.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:40:05


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Of course not. What I'm saying is that the 2% statement combined with the wealthy neighbourhood rethoric makes it a "being black" thing. Its saying a black man is suspicious because they shouldn't belong there 'statistically'.

Yeah he didn't bring up race before, but the question is what part caught his attention first. Also I pulled up the transcript for the jumping fences part, that didn't happen.

Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's, I don't know, he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

Damn, just walking around looking at houses, almost like he could have been lost or something.. but for the crime of walking around vigilante justice had to be meted out.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:49:27


Post by: cuda1179


Nice to see you omitted his statement to police that stated he saw him jumping the fence. It's pretty common knowledge.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:52:48


Post by: daedalus


 cuda1179 wrote:
Nice to see you omitted his statement to police that stated he saw him jumping the fence. It's pretty common knowledge.


I don't think you think it was nice at all.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 14:53:56


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 cuda1179 wrote:
Nice to see you omitted his statement to police that stated he saw him jumping the fence. It's pretty common knowledge.

You mean the statement he made after he killed a man and was desperate not to go to jail. That right there is the 911 dispatch call, please point out where in the call he mentions fences.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here it is in full' I'm waiting:

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...
Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's, I don't know, he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: Okay...
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse...
Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the – he's near the clubhouse right now?
Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
Dispatcher: Okay.
Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.
Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These donkey-caves, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.
Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. gak, he's running [background noises, possibly car door open warning chimes, heard].
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...fething [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.
Dispatcher: All right, sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George...He ran.
Dispatcher: All right, George, what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
Dispatcher: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: [redacted]
Dispatcher: All right, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don't know. It's a cut through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home. It's 1950, Oh, crap. I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine.
Dispatcher: All right, George. I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually, could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah. That's no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah, I got it [redacted]
Zimmerman: Yeah, you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay. No problem. I'll let them know to call you when they're in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You're welcome.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:02:02


Post by: cuda1179


So, because he didn't mention something on a 911 call it didn't happen? I'm sure he had nothing else going on at the moment and was completely calm and relaxed....??


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:04:13


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 cuda1179 wrote:
So, because he didn't mention something on a 911 call it didn't happen? I'm sure he had nothing else going on at the moment and was completely calm and relaxed....??

No because he mentioned it only after he killed someone and might go to prison for years over it. If you just believe everything someone says that just killed a guy I have a bridge to sell you.

He is calm enough to mention a guy just walking around, but too stressed to include he's hopping fences left and right?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:06:15


Post by: d-usa


I could use a bridge. Did a guy kill anyone on it?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:08:21


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 d-usa wrote:
I could use a bridge. Did a guy kill anyone on it?

Sadly it is only haunted by the people it ate.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:11:02


Post by: cuda1179


If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:14:58


Post by: Disciple of Fate


Strawman? Is that the best you have after believing a guy who just murdered someone and could face decades in prison on his big blue eyes?

I doesn't have to be about race. All that matters is a man died because batman saw him "walking about".


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:23:48


Post by: Kanluwen


 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:24:05


Post by: Xenomancers


Dudes - that case is over - Zimmerman was acquitted and never should have been charged. Lets focus on this current case where Zimmerman is charged with "cyber stalking". Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows Zimmerman wants to be left alone and acts aggressively when he's not. This is akin to sticking your hand into a dogs mouth and expecting it not to bite you. These charges will also likely be dropped. What these guys should really do is file a restraining order against Zimmerman. They (producer and PI) won't bother with that though because they know they truly are at no risk whatsoever. Unless ofc - they approach him (which they would be violating the restraining order). Zimmerman is a paranoid loony - he is not a slasher killer as much as you want him to be.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:26:15


Post by: Disciple of Fate


I feel like a more apt comparison would be Zimmerman being a dog trying to put hands in its own mouth by the amount of gak he manages to involve himself in.

Also, as much as who wants him to be?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:27:55


Post by: cuda1179


Forgive me for misinterpreting your " its because he' Black" comment.

Believe it or not, I was young once too. The quickest route from the local basketball court was through a neighbor's yard. This was some I knew personally, heck I mowed their yard. A couple time during a late night return I sparked a 911 call. Innocent mistake, but I understand the concern.

Zimmerman calling the cops I have no problem with. After that things get hazy. If Zimmerman approached martin and assaulted him, yes I would agree it was his fault. However, if Zimmerman was in fact walking back to his truck when Martin assaulted him, then at least a majority of the blame was on Martin. None of us really know what happened.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:29:50


Post by: Xenomancers


 Kanluwen wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.

Again - this case has already been acquitted. Why though is race extremely likely to be the reason he thought Martin was suspicious?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:32:57


Post by: cuda1179


 Kanluwen wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.


Noticing a suspicious person that fits the physical description of a suspected burglar isn't "making it about race".


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:37:26


Post by: Xenomancers


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I feel like a more apt comparison would be Zimmerman being a dog trying to put hands in its own mouth by the amount of gak he manages to involve himself in.

Also, as much as who wants him to be?

These guys sought him out. Knowing full well it could and probably would come to something like this.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:40:03


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 cuda1179 wrote:
Forgive me for misinterpreting your " its because he' Black" comment.

You didn't. When you say 2% this and wealthy neighbourhood that, it does come across as he was suspicious because as a black young man he didn't belong there. That was my point.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Believe it or not, I was young once too. The quickest route from the local basketball court was through a neighbor's yard. This was some I knew personally, heck I mowed their yard. A couple time during a late night return I sparked a 911 call. Innocent mistake, but I understand the concern.

Zimmerman calling the cops I have no problem with. After that things get hazy. If Zimmerman approached martin and assaulted him, yes I would agree it was his fault. However, if Zimmerman was in fact walking back to his truck when Martin assaulted him, then at least a majority of the blame was on Martin. None of us really know what happened.

Exactly, we will never know. But fact of the matter is people lie to avoid prison. The legal system did what it could with the information it had and that is how it works, but a man who had done nothing wrong up until that point died. We're not going to hold another trial, but I'm also not going to believe a word batman says without some extra evidence.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:42:08


Post by: d-usa


The PI going after Z is just as much/little at fault as Z going after M.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 15:43:01


Post by: Kanluwen


cuda1179 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.


Noticing a suspicious person that fits the physical description of a suspected burglar isn't "making it about race".

Do go on. What was the physical description? Height? Weight? Hair? Clothing? Scars or other physically identifying characteristics?

Because "physical description of a suspected burglar" is bullgak on your part if you can't provide those things. Zimmerman reported that the person was wearing a hoodie and "jeans or sweat pants"--so he couldn't see the hair or accurately describe the clothing aside from a hoodie and jeans or sweat pants(which is a pretty big difference really).

Xenomancers wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.

Again - this case has already been acquitted. Why though is race extremely likely to be the reason he thought Martin was suspicious?

Truthfully? Because he seemingly went to such pains to not mention it in the call he made to police coupled with the police report claim of how he "saw him hopping the fence". He describes the clothing and claims to be close enough to follow Martin, yet he can't identify the ethnicity?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I feel like a more apt comparison would be Zimmerman being a dog trying to put hands in its own mouth by the amount of gak he manages to involve himself in.

Also, as much as who wants him to be?

These guys sought him out. Knowing full well it could and probably would come to something like this.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Zimmerman going out of his way to harass someone is acceptable.

You asked earlier in the thread why the PI didn't simply block him. Probably because he was told by law enforcement not to do so after filing a harassment/stalking report.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 16:07:58


Post by: cuda1179


He mentioned Martin's race when asked. Truthfully, in the dark, when raining, from a distance, I could easily see Martin described as possibly mixed, Puerto Rican, or even Indian.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
Forgive me for misinterpreting your " its because he' Black" comment.

You didn't. When you say 2% this and wealthy neighbourhood that, it does come across as he was suspicious because as a black young man he didn't belong there. That was my point.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Believe it or not, I was young once too. The quickest route from the local basketball court was through a neighbor's yard. This was some I knew personally, heck I mowed their yard. A couple time during a late night return I sparked a 911 call. Innocent mistake, but I understand the concern.

Zimmerman calling the cops I have no problem with. After that things get hazy. If Zimmerman approached martin and assaulted him, yes I would agree it was his fault. However, if Zimmerman was in fact walking back to his truck when Martin assaulted him, then at least a majority of the blame was on Martin. None of us really know what happened.

Exactly, we will never know. But fact of the matter is people lie to avoid prison. The legal system did what it could with the information it had and that is how it works, but a man who had done nothing wrong up until that point died. We're not going to hold another trial, but I'm also not going to believe a word batman says without some extra evidence.


People also tell the truth to avoid prison. You seem to state Martin had "done nothing wrong" as some kind of fact. Getting on top of someone and beating them is definitely wrong.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 16:42:21


Post by: Kanluwen


 cuda1179 wrote:
He mentioned Martin's race when asked. Truthfully, in the dark, when raining, from a distance, I could easily see Martin described as possibly mixed, Puerto Rican, or even Indian.

When asked.

That's the crux of it. If he were such an "observant individual" that he was matching Martin to a physical description of a robbery suspect as you are claiming, he should have been mentioning the ethnicity from the getgo.


People also tell the truth to avoid prison. You seem to state Martin had "done nothing wrong" as some kind of fact. Getting on top of someone and beating them is definitely wrong.

So is following someone for quite some time in a very strange manner.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 16:56:59


Post by: Disciple of Fate


 cuda1179 wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
Forgive me for misinterpreting your " its because he' Black" comment.

You didn't. When you say 2% this and wealthy neighbourhood that, it does come across as he was suspicious because as a black young man he didn't belong there. That was my point.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Believe it or not, I was young once too. The quickest route from the local basketball court was through a neighbor's yard. This was some I knew personally, heck I mowed their yard. A couple time during a late night return I sparked a 911 call. Innocent mistake, but I understand the concern.

Zimmerman calling the cops I have no problem with. After that things get hazy. If Zimmerman approached martin and assaulted him, yes I would agree it was his fault. However, if Zimmerman was in fact walking back to his truck when Martin assaulted him, then at least a majority of the blame was on Martin. None of us really know what happened.

Exactly, we will never know. But fact of the matter is people lie to avoid prison. The legal system did what it could with the information it had and that is how it works, but a man who had done nothing wrong up until that point died. We're not going to hold another trial, but I'm also not going to believe a word batman says without some extra evidence.


People also tell the truth to avoid prison. You seem to state Martin had "done nothing wrong" as some kind of fact. Getting on top of someone and beating them is definitely wrong.

Which is exactly why I said up until that point


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 17:38:32


Post by: Xenomancers


Spoiler:
 Kanluwen wrote:
cuda1179 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.


Noticing a suspicious person that fits the physical description of a suspected burglar isn't "making it about race".

Do go on. What was the physical description? Height? Weight? Hair? Clothing? Scars or other physically identifying characteristics?

Because "physical description of a suspected burglar" is bullgak on your part if you can't provide those things. Zimmerman reported that the person was wearing a hoodie and "jeans or sweat pants"--so he couldn't see the hair or accurately describe the clothing aside from a hoodie and jeans or sweat pants(which is a pretty big difference really).

Xenomancers wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
If this strawman is the cross you want to die on, so be it. The fact is that Martin was suspicious enough to warrant a 911 call. Some people just want to make it about race.

Well yeah, because it's extremely likely that is why the 911 call was made.

Again - this case has already been acquitted. Why though is race extremely likely to be the reason he thought Martin was suspicious?

Truthfully? Because he seemingly went to such pains to not mention it in the call he made to police coupled with the police report claim of how he "saw him hopping the fence". He describes the clothing and claims to be close enough to follow Martin, yet he can't identify the ethnicity?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I feel like a more apt comparison would be Zimmerman being a dog trying to put hands in its own mouth by the amount of gak he manages to involve himself in.

Also, as much as who wants him to be?

These guys sought him out. Knowing full well it could and probably would come to something like this.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Zimmerman going out of his way to harass someone is acceptable.

You asked earlier in the thread why the PI didn't simply block him. Probably because he was told by law enforcement not to do so after filing a harassment/stalking report.

Non blacks are scared to even say the word black because even mentioning black these days can get you called a racist. Not saying that's what happened here but it is a legitimate concern for any non black person. I think it's odd you expect him to want to bring up race immediately. He also said he "looks black" - not sure if he ment it that way - but when I say something "looks like" I'm not exactly sure what I am seeing. If I said somebody "looks black" it wouldn't surprise me to later find out there were just a really tan white guy - esp at night. Not defending Zimmerman here - I am pretty sure he knew the kid was black. He probably just didn't want to say it because he didn't want to sound "racist".


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 17:43:36


Post by: jhe90


What has he done again to earn his imortal place in Dakka Bingo?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 18:30:33


Post by: Xenomancers


 jhe90 wrote:
What has he done again to earn his imortal place in Dakka Bingo?
Sent some threatening text messages.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 18:34:30


Post by: epronovost


 Xenomancers wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
What has he done again to earn his imortal place in Dakka Bingo?
Sent some threatening text messages.


You are underselling it a bit there. He sent an alarming numbers of text messages, calls, voicemail messages and email in a very short span of time to a PI working for a documentary crew all of this during Christmas time.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 18:37:19


Post by: d-usa


He also likes to feed aligators.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 19:12:07


Post by: Xenomancers


 d-usa wrote:
He also likes to feed aligators.

They are endangered. It is noble. .


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 19:30:36


Post by: d-usa


Endangered? I thought they were doing pretty well?



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 20:40:02


Post by: jhe90


epronovost wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
What has he done again to earn his imortal place in Dakka Bingo?
Sent some threatening text messages.


You are underselling it a bit there. He sent an alarming numbers of text messages, calls, voicemail messages and email in a very short span of time to a PI working for a documentary crew all of this during Christmas time.


Ok. He made so many issues the news forgot him gettugf in trouble is news!


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 21:57:29


Post by: cuda1179


 Disciple of Fate wrote:
[
Which is exactly why I said up until that point


Sorry, I misread what you posted as "a man who had done nothing wrong up until the point he died"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd still like to know how many times the PI called Zimmerman, showed up at his door, talked to his relatives, and generally acted like a nuisance.

If it was one call, then Zimmerman is a total jerk in this case.

If there was a constant barrage of asking, even after being turned down, well, Zimmerman is still a jerk. But at least it's somewhat understandable. One of those "I don't condone it, but I understand why you did it" situations.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 22:08:01


Post by: d-usa


A crime is a crime.

Z can make a complaint same as the PI if he was harassed.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 22:09:42


Post by: Relapse


It seems like the guy was also bugging Zimmerman’s family


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 22:18:39


Post by: d-usa


They should have just blocked him I guess?



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 22:19:24


Post by: Vaktathi


The PI made contact with Z's family, beyond that we dont know, but unless the PI was doing something illegal that would get his license revoked, there doesn't appear to be anything that would warrant 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails of an angry and threatening nature, especially after being told to stop.

In most situations I would be giving the person in Zimmerman's situation the benefit of the doubt, but Zimmerman, even outside the Martin event, has a long and established history of escalating things far beyond necessary and going out of his way to generatr drama, to say nothing of his naked profiting from the death of a teenager and the bulk load of ugly cringe that was involved in him selling that weapon.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 22:30:13


Post by: cuda1179


 Vaktathi wrote:
The PI made contact with Z's family, beyond that we dont know, but unless the PI was doing something illegal that would get his license revoked, there doesn't appear to be anything that would warrant 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails of an angry and threatening nature, especially after being told to stop.

In most situations I would be giving the person in Zimmerman's situation the benefit of the doubt, but Zimmerman, even outside the Martin event, has a long and established history of escalating things far beyond necessary and going out of his way to generatr drama, to say nothing of his naked profiting from the death of a teenager and the bulk load of ugly cringe that was involved in him selling that weapon.


The guy has to eat man, and the gun was his to sell. He's virtually unemployable now. Wasn't he living like a hermit in a camper for a while?


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/09 22:38:39


Post by: Vaktathi


 cuda1179 wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The PI made contact with Z's family, beyond that we dont know, but unless the PI was doing something illegal that would get his license revoked, there doesn't appear to be anything that would warrant 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails of an angry and threatening nature, especially after being told to stop.

In most situations I would be giving the person in Zimmerman's situation the benefit of the doubt, but Zimmerman, even outside the Martin event, has a long and established history of escalating things far beyond necessary and going out of his way to generatr drama, to say nothing of his naked profiting from the death of a teenager and the bulk load of ugly cringe that was involved in him selling that weapon.


The guy has to eat man, and the gun was his to sell. He's virtually unemployable now. Wasn't he living like a hermit in a camper for a while?
No clue, he may be living in a camper, I dunno.

Yes, the gun was his to sell, I make no attempt to deny him that right.

However, the manner in which he did so, the attention it attracted, the group of people who were interested in it, and the rhetoric used in its sale was...well, lets just say it reflected well on nobody involved, putting it politely. Profiting off the death of a teenager in a nakedly crass manner impresses few people.

As is, given how the dude seems to find himself in new trouble like clockwork, and goes out of his way to revel in the drama in an aggressive and bellugerent manner, and uses his killing of a teenager as some sort of badge of honor/toughness display routinely, I wouldn't employ him either.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 02:31:57


Post by: Ouze


 jhe90 wrote:
What has he done again to earn his imortal place in Dakka Bingo?


The truth is I really have no idea why Zimmerman has so much staying power. It's not like there is a shortage of men who have killed young black men under questionable circumstances, and yet a few years after those shootings no one seems to remember their names.

If I were to guess, it would be because it's the closest you can get to putting a face on Florida Man ©.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 02:41:15


Post by: d-usa


I think it was just a mix of a big media trial, his ability to constantly show back up in the media for something stupid, and (as evidenced here) the ability for people to relitigate his trial over and over again.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 02:46:17


Post by: Vulcan


 cuda1179 wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:

I'm not trying to say Zimmerman isn't somewhat to blame for this incident. He does carry some of the blame. Personally, I feel this was a situation where bad circumstances (Martin was an unknown person acting weird in a gated community and fit the description of burglars hitting the area), forced two donkey caves with chips on their shoulders together. One had a gun.

What description, young man in hoodie? How many people would fit such descriptions. A few years ago half of the friends I had could fit the hoodie description. How did Zimmerman know he didn't live there etc etc. Zimmerman playing wannabe batman is the donkey cave for going out with a gun looking for trouble in the first place. He could have waited for the police. Its a wonder his personality hasn't led him to even more trouble by now.


There was more to the description than "guy in a hoodie". Young black male, not of the neighborhood, occurring at night. Add to that that Zimmerman saw him jump a security fence to gain access to the neighborhood, saw him ducking between houses, and thought he was looking in windows. Yeah, that would make me suspicious too.

And to answer your question, young, black, and male in and of itself all ready puts things into the 2% of the population. Factoring in that this was a fairly high end neighborhood, it likely drops well below that.


I'll grant you all that.

The fact remains that Zimmerman was not a cop, and not a member of a certified neighborhood watch, and even if he had been he was in violation of at least FOUR rules that every certified neighborhood watch is REQUIRED to abide by to get and remain certified by the police.

1) In a certified neighborhood watch, you NEVER patrol alone.

2) In a certified neighborhood watch, you NEVER carry a gun, even if you have a C&C permit.

3) In a certified neighborhood watch, you NEVER leave the car. Not even if someone's life is on the line.

4) In a certified neighborhood watch, you ALWAYS do what the dispatcher tell you when calling in a report.

Violate any of those four rules and your certification is revoked on the spot. And yet, there Zimmerman was, patrolling alone, with his gun, leaving the car, and disobeying the dispatcher. Even if he had been certified he would have lost that certification that night. Those rules exist for a reason: to protect the person on patrol. It keeps them out of trouble and gives them a witness in case something DOES happen. In short, those rules prevent the very thing that DID occur that night from occurring.

Sorry, but Zimmerman went looking for trouble and found it, in spades. Given Martin's known gang affiliations, Zimmerman is QUITE lucky Martin didn't shoot HIM.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 02:50:54


Post by: Ouze


 d-usa wrote:
and (as evidenced here) the ability for people to relitigate his trial over and over again.


Also to spice their recollections with things they've made up, apparently.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 07:42:48


Post by: cuda1179


 Ouze wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
and (as evidenced here) the ability for people to relitigate his trial over and over again.


Also to spice their recollections with things they've made up, apparently.



True on both sides, apparently.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 09:26:50


Post by: Ouze


Aw, don't be salty. I was referring to this:

 Vulcan wrote:
Sorry, but Zimmerman went looking for trouble and found it, in spades. Given Martin's known gang affiliations, Zimmerman is QUITE lucky Martin didn't shoot HIM.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 18:58:26


Post by: cuda1179


not salty, I was referring to myself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I was on the jury I'd have acquitted Zimmerman reluctantly. However, if things had played out differently, and Zimmerman had died (shot by own gun, head beaten on concrete, whatever) I'd probably have acquitted Martin on any charges too.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 21:20:13


Post by: Xenomancers


 cuda1179 wrote:
not salty, I was referring to myself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I was on the jury I'd have acquitted Zimmerman reluctantly. However, if things had played out differently, and Zimmerman had died (shot by own gun, head beaten on concrete, whatever) I'd probably have acquitted Martin on any charges too.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Initiation of physical violence is a serious offense. It should be punished. And no - following someone is not initiation of physical violence. Heck - Zimmerman could have been walking down the street screaming the N word and it wouldn't a dang difference. Physical violence trumps all.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 21:21:32


Post by: Kanluwen


 Xenomancers wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
not salty, I was referring to myself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I was on the jury I'd have acquitted Zimmerman reluctantly. However, if things had played out differently, and Zimmerman had died (shot by own gun, head beaten on concrete, whatever) I'd probably have acquitted Martin on any charges too.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Initiation of physical violence is a serious offense. It should be punished. And no - following someone is not initiation of physical violence. Heck - Zimmerman could have been walking down the street screaming the N word and it wouldn't a dang difference. Physical violence trumps all.

And when one person is dead but the other isn't, it's a very difficult case to prove that the dead person didn't initiate physical violence. Forensics only works to a certain point.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 21:26:50


Post by: Xenomancers


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
not salty, I was referring to myself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I was on the jury I'd have acquitted Zimmerman reluctantly. However, if things had played out differently, and Zimmerman had died (shot by own gun, head beaten on concrete, whatever) I'd probably have acquitted Martin on any charges too.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Initiation of physical violence is a serious offense. It should be punished. And no - following someone is not initiation of physical violence. Heck - Zimmerman could have been walking down the street screaming the N word and it wouldn't a dang difference. Physical violence trumps all.

And when one person is dead but the other isn't, it's a very difficult case to prove that the dead person didn't initiate physical violence. Forensics only works to a certain point.

Well - that's true. If the situation was reversed and Martin bashed in Zmanns skull. He could have just said he pulled the gun on him and then he attacked him - if nobody saw. It would be very difficult to prove otherwise. Then you just have to go with what evidence you have. In that case Martin would and should go free - because there is enough reasonable doubt.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 21:35:09


Post by: cuda1179


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
not salty, I was referring to myself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I was on the jury I'd have acquitted Zimmerman reluctantly. However, if things had played out differently, and Zimmerman had died (shot by own gun, head beaten on concrete, whatever) I'd probably have acquitted Martin on any charges too.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Initiation of physical violence is a serious offense. It should be punished. And no - following someone is not initiation of physical violence. Heck - Zimmerman could have been walking down the street screaming the N word and it wouldn't a dang difference. Physical violence trumps all.

And when one person is dead but the other isn't, it's a very difficult case to prove that the dead person didn't initiate physical violence. Forensics only works to a certain point.

Well - that's true. If the situation was reversed and Martin bashed in Zmanns skull. He could have just said he pulled the gun on him and then he attacked him - if nobody saw. It would be very difficult to prove otherwise. Then you just have to go with what evidence you have. In that case Martin would and should go free - because there is enough reasonable doubt.


Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I don't think many people believe Zimmeran isn't a prick, he is. Just that there wasn't enough evidence to know what happened exactly, thus no conviction.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/10 22:28:03


Post by: d-usa


Someone following you is enough reason to stand your ground and use lethal force if the situation escalates. But that is also a reality in today’s society and justice system.

Someone using lethal force via gun is easily held up as someone protecting themselves. Someone using fists or a knife is often pained as an aggressor.

Part of that is the reality that guns are just easy to use at a distance, and other forms of self defense require you close in with the person you are defending yourself from. We don’t like laws that require us to run away if able rather than using lethal force, but we judge people for not running away if they use something other than a gun. Even with a gun, chasing the bad guy and shooting him (usually) negates any self defense claim. You stand there and you shoot, and if you close the distance yourself you probably really weren’t scared enough to use lethal force or you would have stayed away from them. But knifes and fists require you to make the move to close the distance, preferably on your terms or else the person you are defending yourself from will have the advantage. I dabbled in BJJ a tiny bit, and the same mindset is used there as well. You are either far enough away at all times so they can’t attack you, or you close the distance and get in tight to negate any advantage they have. But that charge to get in tight could be seen as me “starting the physical fight” rather than me setting myself up to protect myself from his attacks. Physical sneak attacks are needed for self defense for the same reason we carry concealed, we want the advantage of surprise during our defense.

But standing there and shooting a guy and saying “I was scared” is a well accepted defense.

But winning a physical lethal fight and saying “I was scared” usually results in “if you were scared of him, why did you charge him and fight him. If you thought he could hurt you, why get into a physical fight with him!” Even without any potential racial biases, it’s a much harder defense.

This is not to retrial Z vs M, just a general observation.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/11 00:04:11


Post by: Vulcan


 Xenomancers wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
not salty, I was referring to myself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I was on the jury I'd have acquitted Zimmerman reluctantly. However, if things had played out differently, and Zimmerman had died (shot by own gun, head beaten on concrete, whatever) I'd probably have acquitted Martin on any charges too.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Initiation of physical violence is a serious offense. It should be punished. And no - following someone is not initiation of physical violence. Heck - Zimmerman could have been walking down the street screaming the N word and it wouldn't a dang difference. Physical violence trumps all.


Unless you're in a state that has a 'fighting words' law...


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/11 03:16:17


Post by: DominayTrix


I think the fact that the dude was hired by Jay-Z and the Weinstein Company is a significant factor that people seem to be overlooking. You have a PI being backed by a very powerful and wealthy individual who has an established history with the BLM movement including a 1.5M dollar donation. Jay-Z is also a longtime friend of the Martin family ever since the Treyvon's death. This is enough to question if the documentary was heavily biased and inconsiderate to Zimmerman's privacy. Then you add in the Weinstein Company's well established history of predatory use of PI's to control and harass people. Don't get me wrong Zman is an idiot to make death threats especially against public figures, but something here doesn't add up. It could be as simple as a publicity stunt to get the documentary coverage, Zimmerman being an idiot, or an actual frame job. It could even be a combination of any number of things. We do not have enough information at this point.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/11 03:30:31


Post by: Ouze


 cuda1179 wrote:
not salty, I was referring to myself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I was on the jury I'd have acquitted Zimmerman reluctantly. However, if things had played out differently, and Zimmerman had died (shot by own gun, head beaten on concrete, whatever) I'd probably have acquitted Martin on any charges too.


Truthfully I think this is where I would have landed too. Actually I can just repost what i said in 2013.

it's possible that no one at all was technically, or legally, "wrong".

Zimmerman follows TM. No problem.

TM feels that he is in danger for his life, that he is being stalked by a dangerous, possibly armed, stranger. There are no witnesses and no evidence to what sparked the confrontation so we don't know what triggered the physicality. He decides under SYG to defend himself. He is technically and legally right - in fact, he could beat Zimmerman to death under this law and be legally OK in my opinion, under SYG, so long as he can later prove he had "reasonable" cause to fear for his safety - which again, is pretty damn nebulous.

Zimmerman is being beaten and is now also in fear for his life and employs deadly force. He is, again, legally OK.

So, we have a young man dead, but no actual crime was comitted - just a serious of really unfortunate events.

Ultimately in my opinion, under the evidence that we have and the facts that we have - justice was served. I think the prosecution overreached; and my only concern was that it appeared he would never be charged at all initially when I think there was ample evidence a crime may have been committed. Once he was charged, tried, and found not guilty - our system worked.

Morally, of course, he should probably have listened to the damn dispatcher and let the police handle it. He doesn't have to listen to the dispatcher, but he sure should have. Bad judgement in this case was not a crime, though
.


 DominayTrix wrote:
I think the fact that the dude was hired by Jay-Z and the Weinstein Company is a significant factor that people seem to be overlooking. You have a PI being backed by a very powerful and wealthy individual who has an established history with the BLM movement including a 1.5M dollar donation. Jay-Z is also a longtime friend of the Martin family ever since the Treyvon's death. This is enough to question if the documentary was heavily biased and inconsiderate to Zimmerman's privacy. Then you add in the Weinstein Company's well established history of predatory use of PI's to control and harass people. Don't get me wrong Zman is an idiot to make death threats especially against public figures, but something here doesn't add up. It could be as simple as a publicity stunt to get the documentary coverage, Zimmerman being an idiot, or an actual frame job. It could even be a combination of any number of things. We do not have enough information at this point.


I don't see any reason why Zimmerman should get the benefit of the doubt in this situation even if you handwave away the number of calls and contacts (which, why would you?). I think his previous legal difficulties have amply proven the Raylan Givens maxim: "If you run into an donkey-cave in the morning, you ran into an donkey-cave. If you run into donkey-caves all day, you're the donkey-cave.'"





George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/11 21:32:44


Post by: jhe90


 Vaktathi wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The PI made contact with Z's family, beyond that we dont know, but unless the PI was doing something illegal that would get his license revoked, there doesn't appear to be anything that would warrant 55 phone calls, 67 text messages, 36 voicemails and 27 emails of an angry and threatening nature, especially after being told to stop.

In most situations I would be giving the person in Zimmerman's situation the benefit of the doubt, but Zimmerman, even outside the Martin event, has a long and established history of escalating things far beyond necessary and going out of his way to generatr drama, to say nothing of his naked profiting from the death of a teenager and the bulk load of ugly cringe that was involved in him selling that weapon.


The guy has to eat man, and the gun was his to sell. He's virtually unemployable now. Wasn't he living like a hermit in a camper for a while?
No clue, he may be living in a camper, I dunno.

Yes, the gun was his to sell, I make no attempt to deny him that right.

However, the manner in which he did so, the attention it attracted, the group of people who were interested in it, and the rhetoric used in its sale was...well, lets just say it reflected well on nobody involved, putting it politely. Profiting off the death of a teenager in a nakedly crass manner impresses few people.

As is, given how the dude seems to find himself in new trouble like clockwork, and goes out of his way to revel in the drama in an aggressive and bellugerent manner, and uses his killing of a teenager as some sort of badge of honor/toughness display routinely, I wouldn't employ him either.


Gakky way to sell it but yeah...

He does own it and can sell it if like. However the fact is they have the right to refuse sale of such a hot item.

And well.. Yeah. I'm not sure what you can do with the guy... His name is toxic.

Its... Well he a walking target for anyone. His bad press would be massive, like a cargo ship of baggage.



George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/11 22:16:48


Post by: LordofHats


 jhe90 wrote:


And well.. Yeah. I'm not sure what you can do with the guy... His name is toxic.



Honestly his name isn't what's toxic. You don't keep ending up wrapped in drama like he does because your name hit the national press and stayed there for awhile. The world is full of such people who manage to go through life and simply fade away no matter what got them the fame in the first place.

The man is toxic by his nature.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 01:41:42


Post by: cuda1179


Yeah, he is toxic. However unlike other infamous people, this and the Michael Brown incident sparked a national movement which helped Zman stay in the news much longer than would be expected.

When you are in the "high end" of psuedo celebrity status small things can easily bounce you back into the spotlight. I'm sure there are other people that used up their 15 minutes and still do stupid stuff. Yet we don't hear about it because it's not ratings worthy, or doesn't fit the media objective.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 02:03:21


Post by: Vaktathi


 cuda1179 wrote:
Yeah, he is toxic. However unlike other infamous people, this and the Michael Brown incident sparked a national movement which helped Zman stay in the news much longer than would be expected.

When you are in the "high end" of psuedo celebrity status small things can easily bounce you back into the spotlight. I'm sure there are other people that used up their 15 minutes and still do stupid stuff. Yet we don't hear about it because it's not ratings worthy, or doesn't fit the media objective.
I think, perhaps more importantly, people involved in those other incidents don't wear them like a defiant badge of macho pride, go out of their way to profit from the experience, or get themselves into altercations that involve the police every year or so.

We don't hear squat about say, Darren Wilson these days.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 04:45:50


Post by: cuda1179


What is the running list of things Zimmerman has done since the trial ended?

He got into a domestic event with his wife

Tried to sell the gun

Rescued a guy in a car accident

Harrassed a PI.

Am I missing something there? That's four instances, but only three are bad. Even then, selling the gun might have been necessary for a guy that will likely never be employed again. I'd also like to hear all the facts about this PI shenanigans.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 05:15:09


Post by: Ouze


 cuda1179 wrote:
Am I missing something there?


Yes, but I also live in Iowa and know for sure we get Wikipedia here so you can read for yourself.





George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 05:25:38


Post by: daedalus


Daaaaaaaaaaaamn.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 06:02:48


Post by: Vaktathi


 cuda1179 wrote:
What is the running list of things Zimmerman has done since the trial ended?
He got into a domestic event with his wife
Twice, and then later with an ex-girlfriend as well.

Tried to sell the gun
Successfully sold a gun yes. In an intentionally provactive manner, describing it as an "American Firearm Icon" and how he used it to" end the brutal attack from Trayvon Martin on 2/26/2012" and lying about how the Smithsonian expressed interest in it. That's a dude going out of his way to generate drama.

Rescued a guy in a car accident

Harrassed a PI.

Am I missing something there? That's four instances, but only three are bad. Even then, selling the gun might have been necessary for a guy that will likely never be employed again. I'd also like to hear all the facts about this PI shenanigans.
Stuff like retweeting images of Martin's body (with a confederate battle flag profile image created for a gun store owner who banned Muslims from his store), getting into trouble selling patriotic "paintings" with stolen stock imagery, openly bragging about killing Martin resulting in a barfight, and then getting into another barfight and using racial slurs, Doxxing an ex girlfriend and accusing her of sleeping with a "ditry Muslim", and I'm sure there's a couple others I'm forgetting about

Some of these could perhaps be explained away or set aside or even be seen as understandable (particularly the bar incidents), and I'm not including his 2005 era run ins with the law or the incidents where trouble went out of its way to find him (such as the encounters with Matthew Apperson which I don't blame Zimmerman for), but the dude is so provacative and deliberately offensive in his actions and statements, and runs into so much trouble, that they form a pretty clear pattern of a belligerent donkey-cave.




George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 06:17:33


Post by: cuda1179


 Ouze wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
Am I missing something there?


Yes, but I also live in Iowa and know for sure we get Wikipedia here so you can read for yourself.





I would have wiki'd that, but it's harder than you'd think. At the time of my last comment I was on a device cobbled together from the internals of my daughter's broken tablet duck taped to the tiniest ever screen from an Android phone sitting in my lost and found box for two years. (Hey, slow day at work leads to idle hands).


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 06:40:20


Post by: LordofHats


 Vaktathi wrote:
the dude is so provacative and deliberately offensive in his actions and statements, and runs into so much trouble, that they form a pretty clear pattern of a belligerent donkey-cave.


Basically. Sure he spawned a national movement, but the movement isn't about Zimmerman. When's the last time anyone talked about OJ? When he released that not confession book? Does anyone care about OJ since then? Probably Nicole Brown's folks but they're probably it. Roman Polanski gets brought up here and there, most recently when the Weinstein stuff was hitting but other than that how many people talk about Polanski?

Reality is that these guys only come up because they've done something recently, or someone did something else really similar. If Zimmerman wanted to fade away into the background of society and be left alone he easily could.

It's pretty damn clear that's not actually a priority for the guy. He doesn't know how to back down, even when it's patently for his own good which really just goes back to why he's famous in the first place.

The guy really doesn't seem able to help himself.


George Zimmerman... again. @ 2018/05/12 07:00:35


Post by: cuda1179


Well, OJ did organize an armed robbery in Vegas. He was also in the news for tax evasion, road rage, hiding income needed to satisfy the wrongful death judgement against him, he was implicated in money laundering and drug dealing (but never convicted), and sold illegal satellite TV descramblers.