I think the Hybridization has to deal with the "Super Predators" from Predators. Since chronologically this one follows Predator 2 but precedes Predators.
I was pretty stoked when they listed Shane Black as doing a new re-start to the franchise, but it's been nothing but bad news so far. The trailer doesn't help any. Predator was a great movie because of its simplicity and its non-trope laden writing/story. This looks like another "also ran" generic action film with an uninspiring cast. I'd love to be wrong, I really would, but my brother and I both just gave the trailer a resounding "meh".
By now you think I'd be used to major Hollywood films systematically ruining my childhood, but I keep pretending someone will do it right.
So, the military is hybridization the predators, presumably to make the deadliest predators on Earth? To use as weapons? Can you imagine if we'd had those bad boys at Tora Bora?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, the military is hybridization the predators, presumably to make the deadliest predators on Earth? To use as weapons? Can you imagine if we'd had those bad boys at Tora Bora?
Where did you get that its the military hybridizing? The very next line is "They're upgrading on every planet they visit." Maybe the Preds are hybridizing themselves.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, the military is hybridization the predators, presumably to make the deadliest predators on Earth? To use as weapons? Can you imagine if we'd had those bad boys at Tora Bora?
Where did you get that its the military hybridizing? The very next line is "They're upgrading on every planet they visit." Maybe the Preds are hybridizing themselves.
I was really just making the point that this film and Jurassic Word Fallen Kingdom both lack confidence in their base premises to the point where they have to invent hybrid super monsters in an attempt to raise the stakes and recapture the audience. It's a move of blatant creative exhaustion and won't fix the problems that actually lurk in the hearts of those films. It's dinoshark vs whalewolf without the campy charm.
But this movie didnt invent the Hybrid Super Predators, that was the last movie. This one seems to be trying to explain why there was the "Basic Predator" and the Super Predators.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: But this movie didnt invent the Hybrid Super Predators, that was the last movie. This one seems to be trying to explain why there was the "Basic Predator" and the Super Predators.
Was there any great demand for this pseudo-reboot to force itself into continuity with the forgotten sidequel of yesterdecade?
Should Jaws 5 incorporate Jaws 4's Voodoo Shark lore just for continuity?
There was clearly enough of a demand for the Super Predators to be explored that they decided it would be a good idea to put it in this film. I know at the very least I was curious what the hell was up with them.
For the record, I've liked every Predator film except the two AvP movies. And the downward spiral didn't start with Predators, it was clearly there in Predator 2.
Hmmm been waiting for the trailer and we get this um yeah what ever it is. Yeah I know it’s only the first trailer but damn guess you can’t best the originals. The 80’s did it right.
I feel like an american suburb is a poor choice of an environment. The first two movies made a point of showing the predators prowling violent territories and it worked pretty well. I don't think soccer moms will be quite as exciting as marines in Vietnam or gangsters and cops of Detroit. I'd much rather see a predator in the Middle East, the Korean border or a South American slum.
Mr Nobody wrote: I feel like an american suburb is a poor choice of an environment. The first two movies made a point of showing the predators prowling violent territories and it worked pretty well. I don't think soccer moms will be quite as exciting as marines in Vietnam or gangsters and cops of Detroit. I'd much rather see a predator in the Middle East, the Korean border or a South American slum.
SpecOPs in Guatemala (or the fictional nation of Val Verde) and Police/Gang Members in LA
The kid has Predator gear. Which he took out of a sealed cardboard box covered with shipping labels. And the protagonist is shown later in the trailer having a touching moment with the kid. We also see the protagonist stumbling across Pred wreckage and finding the gear in a jungle setting. So I guess protagonist finds the xenos artefacts and sends them to his son/nephew/little brother before getting debriefed by government or employer (he says his outfit are assassins) or whoever.
????
Seems weird to send that stuff to a kid ... whom you care about and whom you do NOT want to die. Because naturally the kid pushes buttons indiscriminately and something bad happens - in this case, another pred ship arrives ... seemingly landing in a temperate region that I'm guessing is in North America.
Necros wrote: "kid puts on a mask and turns into a predator"
If they go the Monster Trucks route, I am much more interested. If we get Predakid using his Predagear to win the BMX race and save the community center, I will be there.
Can't even really be optimistic honestly. I love Predator so much but the movies have ranged from great (the first one) to okay (second and Predators) to dreadful.
Im3 simultaneously ruined AIM, extremis, cured death in the mcu with no consequence when stark fixed the extremis formulae, and did the worst version of iron patriot for no good reason. While making the motivation of the bad guy being stood up for a rooftop date with stark at a party.
There is nothing in thor 1 or 2 thats as bad as half that list.
I think Thor 2 was definitely worse than Thor 1, and I think Iron Man 2 was worse than all of the movies previously mentioned. It was a poorly plotted, insipid toy commercial and I think easily the worst Marvel movie so far. Iron Man 3 wasn't particularly good either but I think IM2 definitely edged it out in badness.
Ouze wrote: I think Thor 2 was definitely worse than Thor 1, and I think Iron Man 2 was worse than all of the movies previously mentioned. It was a poorly plotted, insipid toy commercial and I think easily the worst Marvel movie so far. Iron Man 3 wasn't particularly good either but I think IM2 definitely edged it out in badness.
Ya know, somehow I'd forgotten about Iron Man 2. Maybe its alot like Devil May Cry 2, just, something everyone pretends doesnt exist.
@Lance, in my opinion, Thor 1 and 2 are worse than all of what happened in IM3, because they exist.
So my brother and I were droning on about this some more...and the trailer hints at way too many awful tropes which could make this a forgettable film.
1) The government is going to be the bad guy or a serious antagonist....fething yawn.
2) There's an attractive female, who, unlike the first film...will probably introduce a totally unwarranted love story amidst what should be a thriller/action movie...fething yawn.
3) "Protect the kids and the innocents", always giving the bad guy a soft target makes the film worse. Predator was great because we were shown had bad-ass and competent the squad was...and they were scared/running from the beast.
4) Cringy one-liners. Despite the fun we all have at the expense of "get to da choppa!" the first film had some really solid writing. The squad on many occasions communicated properly, etc. and one liners were minimal and not cringy.
5) America. If this takes place in America, even worse...some god awful suburb, that's just a let down and lazy film making. We live on a fascinating planet with amazing scenery and places to film an alien-based thriller. Don't do it in suburbia. (really? Macon, Georgia...)
I want this film to be good, I really do. The lead actor doesn't score well with me...nor does the trailer. I just want to be proven wrong soooo badly.
Elbows wrote: So my brother and I were droning on about this some more...and the trailer hints at way too many awful tropes which could make this a forgettable film.
1) The government is going to be the bad guy or a serious antagonist....fething yawn.
You mean like Predator 2?
2) There's an attractive female, who, unlike the first film...will probably introduce a totally unwarranted love story amidst what should be a thriller/action movie...fething yawn.
That's fair.
3) "Protect the kids and the innocents", always giving the bad guy a soft target makes the film worse. Predator was great because we were shown had bad-ass and competent the squad was...and they were scared/running from the beast.
It was also a team unaware of the Predator, this team seems to have experience with them, so 'raising' the stakes for the main character is somewhat warranted. Besides it hits a parent fear button. Sure theres the fear of being hunted by something unstoppable, but now that something unstoppable is going after your kid.
4) Cringy one-liners. Despite the fun we all have at the expense of "get to da choppa!" the first film had some really solid writing. The squad on many occasions communicated properly, etc. and one liners were minimal and not cringy.
"Stick Around." "Knock Knock." "I aint got time to bleed." "One ugly motherfether."
5) America. If this takes place in America, even worse...some god awful suburb, that's just a let down and lazy film making. We live on a fascinating planet with amazing scenery and places to film an alien-based thriller. Don't do it in suburbia. (really? Macon, Georgia...)
Well it follows the unofficial trend of Predator movies. Wildlands - Urban. ie; Predator, Jungles of South America. Predator 2, Gangland LA. AvP, Antarctica. AvP:R, Colorado. Predators, Forrest World. The Predator, Suburban America.
I want this film to be good, I really do. The lead actor doesn't score well with me...nor does the trailer. I just want to be proven wrong soooo badly.
Then just dont over think it, and try to go in expecting at the very least to be entertained for a couple hours.
Yeah, this looks like schlock but then again I am not going to a Predator movie for art. (That first one was just lightning in a bottle.)
I read someone over at AVPGalaxy making the point that even if the movie is bad he will appreciate if it develops the franchise. I can see that, but then again ... Prometheus and Covenant "developed" the Alien franchise ...
One thing I really liked about AVP is it followed the lead of the video games. Basically, the people who had to make a viable, saleable game had some good ideas (like relateable preds) and the producers were smart enough to recognize that. By contrast, the super preds in Predators (overall, a very good film) seemed like the wrong direction to me.
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Elbows wrote: The lead actor doesn't score well with me...
I strongly agree here. He seems like the kind of guy that casting directors have entire filing cabinets full of.
Here's what Thomas Jane has said about the plot:
We play these veterans from like Afghanistan, Iraq war or whatever. But we’re all fething crazy so we go to the VA hospital to get our meds. We’re all like shellshocked, PTSD…soldiers. We’re at the VA hospital and we’re in group therapy and of course, somebody flips out…this is backstory, I don’t think we really see this…somebody flips out and we all get arrested and get thrown onto the bus to go down to the hospital and they throw this other guy on the bus too.
And he’s a guy they’ve actually marked to kill him because he’s seen a UFO, he’s seen the Predator ships come down so they lock him up and throw him in with us lunatics. They’re going to take that bus, drive it down to a ditch and shoot us all just to get rid of this one guy. But, of course, we take the bus over and we’re all like “feth that man, let’s go kill these fething Predators ourselves” and we’re just crazy enough to believe that this guy really did see a UFO and there’s these aliens out there. So that’s kinda cool!
I liked the first AvP. Did not care for the second. Did not realize there were “super” predators in the last movie, just thought they were different clans with different aesthetics. Still looking forward to this.
AduroT wrote: I liked the first AvP. Did not care for the second. Did not realize there were “super” predators in the last movie, just thought they were different clans with different aesthetics. Still looking forward to this.
You are not the first person i have seen with this opinion. I don't understand it at all.
Avp had the worst aliens who didn't act like aliens. The dumbest humans. And the dumbest preds.
Their nets, not acid proof. Their knife, acid proof. Their armor, not acid proof. You wake up from being unconscious without your mask while hunting aliens and don't immediately know you've been face huggered? Also the gestation period for the embryos was like... 15 minutes.
At least in avp are the aliens acted like aliens and the pred acted like a pred and the humans were just in the way. Plus we got to see a stage of the alien biology we never saw before in the form of a premature queen trying to establish a hive.
Why would I watch this when I can watch Predator? Why do they keep making Terminator movies? Alien movies? Remember when there were new things, rather than just ripping off classics?
AduroT wrote: I liked the first AvP. Did not care for the second. Did not realize there were “super” predators in the last movie, just thought they were different clans with different aesthetics. Still looking forward to this.
You are not the firat person i haveseen withthis opinion. I dont understand it at all.
Avp had the worst aliens who didnt act like aliens. The dumbest humans. And the dumbest preds.
Their nets, not acid proof. Their knife, acid proof. Their armor, not acid proof. You wake up from being unconcious without your mask while hunting aliens and dont imediatly know youve been face huggered?
Also the gestation period for the embryos was like... 15 minutes.
At least in avp are the aliens acted like aliens and the pred acted like a pred and the humans were just in the way. Plus we got to see a stage of the alien biology we never saw before in the form of a premature queen trying to establish a hive.
It wasnt a premature Queen, it was a Pred-Alien. A very different one to any Pred-Alien mentioned in any other works. I don't remember them ever being able to plant Xenomorphs in people before that movie.
There is no actual such thing as a pred alien just like there is no such thing as a hum alien. There are aliens. They take genetic matieral from their hosts.
The pred alien was the oldest alien around and when that happens they can begin to molt into a queen. Thats why it injected embryos. It wasnt at a egg laying stage yet. But it was developing a crest, was bigger, more intelligent, and commanding all the other drones.
It tried to build a hive in the sewers. Then the construction site. Then the hospital, then got tired of the predators gak.
Being born from a pred does not make it impossible to be a queen. That was absolutely a premature queen we saw in that movie.
Except all those times in the other Aliens vs Predator material where the Facehugger's impregnation of other species makes all Drones the same as the ones which come from Humans.
The only two times, other than toys, where I can think of a Xenomorph taking specific traits from a host would be the Runner (Alien 3) and the PredAlien (AvP:R and AvP2).
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Except all those times in the other Aliens vs Predator material where the Facehugger's impregnation of other species makes all Drones the same as the ones which come from Humans.
The only two times, other than toys, where I can think of a Xenomorph taking specific traits from a host would be the Runner (Alien 3) and the PredAlien (AvP:R and AvP2).
Right. All the tons of not cannon expanded material thats full of nonsensical bull crap.
The expanded novels and comics are so all over the shop on what does what and what doesnt that none of it can be taken for anything. The movies themselves also have odd holes in the canon but are much more consistent.
At the very least, if there is a pred alien that was born and not a genetic experiment then your dealing with aliens that take dna from hosts. Otherwise it would have been a regular drone. The movies at least are consistent in that.
And again, bigger, crest, problem solving smart, trying to build a hive, commanding drones/warriors, able to produce embryos = queen.
LordofHats wrote: Not even sure how Thor 2 can be the worst when there was a Thor 1. Thor 1 was bad. Not that Thor 2 was great but yeah Thor 1 was worse in my book XD
The first two Thor films were great - Mst Portman the delcious icing on the cake Third one was disjointed but fun.
All so much Better than the Cap A 1 which was IMO the worst Marvel film since Iron Man - when the good films started.
Iron Man 3 was ok - again far better than Cap A 1
Enjoyed Predators immensely - hopefully this will be as good
I liked the Pred Alien, I don’t mind it being a young queen, I hated it bypassing the egg and face hugger stage and just spawning dozens and dozens of drones directly. If that’s possible then why ever bother with the eggs and huggers in the first place?
As far as the first one, idiot balls are a standard thing in movies and not a thing i bother questioning anymore. The Pred probably knew it had been hugged but there is likely not much he could do about it on the ground and didn’t survive to tell the others. Different things being acid proof or not is a matter of the demands of their material contruction. Armor should be though, yes. I don’t recall anything acting terribly out of character.
AduroT wrote: I liked the Pred Alien, I don’t mind it being a young queen, I hated it bypassing the egg and face hugger stage and just spawning dozens and dozens of drones directly. If that’s possible then why ever bother with the eggs and huggers in the first place?
Because a queen that has to run around and personally make every drone is a queen thats constantly put in danger. Once it builds up a quick escalating hive (which it did very quickly building a small army of drones) and secures a hive it can create the egg chamber and mount itself in the middle and let the drones bring subdued hosts to it. It's safer and keeps the queen safe.
But before you get there. Before the queen has the infrastructure needed to establish the egg chamber and begin laying mass amounts of eggs. The young queen needs a way to produce drones fast and get that hive built. Thats what we watched though that entire movie.
As far as the first one, idiot balls are a standard thing in movies and not a thing i bother questioning anymore. The Pred probably knew it had been hugged but there is likely not much he could do about it on the ground and didn’t survive to tell the others. Different things being acid proof or not is a matter of the demands of their material contruction. Armor should be though, yes. I don’t recall anything acting terribly out of character.
The pred that got face hugged had a nuke strapped to his arm he could have used to blow up the whole temple when everything went wrong. The only reason not to is if he thinks hes going to survive. And if he got face huggered then hes not going to survive.
The alien drones were intelligent. Like... human intelligent. To the point that one got it's tail cut off and figured out the physics for launching splashes of acid. Also when they wanted to free the queen they attacked the queen instead of attacking themselves. If an alien needed to get acid onto the restraints to free the queen they would have turned on each other instead of harming the queen.
Also go back and watch that scene where the alien stabs it's tail through the pred and lifts him up. That tail is like.... 20 feet longer than it should be. It has to turn around from the aliens butt, go past it's 5 foot torso+ dark alcove, down the 9 foot wall, stab through the predator, turn it around and lift it in the air THEN the alien comes out of the tunnel into view.
30 second mark. LOOK AT THAT TAIL!
It's outrageous! That thing is the length of 3 whole aliens!
Between not knowing Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and uttering those terrible words it is like I don't even know you anymore. I thought you were so butch.
As for me there is really only the original Predator film and the rest are some crazy non-existent fan fiction lies you are peddling on my dear interwebs.
Between not knowing Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and uttering those terrible words it is like I don't even know you anymore. I thought you were so butch.
As for me there is really only the original Predator film and the rest are some crazy non-existent fan fiction lies you are peddling on my dear interwebs.
Oh come on now.
Predator II was awesome in a pure 1980s way.
AVP was just fun killy killy.
AVP caused projectile diarrhea, I with you on that.
Predators, ok I really like that movie. Some good actors. Plus I have been to those locations. It's the abode of Team Wienie, the real ultimate predators!
Between not knowing Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and uttering those terrible words it is like I don't even know you anymore. I thought you were so butch.
As for me there is really only the original Predator film and the rest are some crazy non-existent fan fiction lies you are peddling on my dear interwebs.
I knew I shouldn't have revealed my dark secret about liking the AVP movies. It's like Mcdonalds, in that they give me diarrhea (the films metaphorically and the food literally), but I also hate myself for liking the taste. Of Mcdonalds, not diarrhea.
Maybe I can redeem myself a bit by watching Kiss Kiss Bang Bang over the next 2 days off; you're the second person to tell me it was good.
Like all Hellraiser movies Ill hope it turns out to be a decent movie......I just dont get how they keep dicking these franchises up. To me anyways it seems these movies should be easy to pull off but time and time again they turn into turds that leave me with that "what the hell?" look stuck on my face
It's often just to retain rights. That's why we're up to 10 Hellraiser movies now (I still consider Hell on Earth the ropiest. 4, 5, 6 and 7 at interesting at the very least)
The reboots generally fail because they are, in essence, fake. They're just playing off previous success and not a genuine organic success (the originals often being successes by accident). Once you throw around a big famous name or IP, the studios get heavily involved and you end up with generic action-movie trash which is increasingly aimed at being PC friendly and appealing to (and not antagonizing) other major emerging markets like China, etc.
On rare occasions the sequel will be better because it's often done by the same people and represents a "the story I really wanted to tell..." kind of moment, with a large budget and better casting panache/chops.
There are plenty of non-hollywood gems out there, but sadly the reboots and major IPs get scooped up by big studios and the result is often pretty ho-hum.
I dunno, I think Hollywood right now has done a very good job of bringing back things by condensing them into what we remember about them.
Or making great comedy reboots.
Fury Road is the best Mad Max by a large margin and looks and feels exactly like you remember MM being but not at all what it was actually like (because the old MMs are RIDICULOUS in a bad way).
Ghost Busters was ok. Not great. Mostly because it had a real weak 3rd act that was just a CGI light in the sky like most action movies these days...
Robocop was great. The extra stuff with the family was really good and they updated the "parody" well to be more topical and taken a bit more seriously.
Dredd was WAY better then the stalone one.
The new Planet of the Apes movies are a MASSIVE step up from any thing that came before it.
Nice Guys, Jump Street, The Other Guys, Overboard. All really good.
There are duds of course too. But it's worked often enough.
Commando is a great movie... just not a good one. But it is insanely quotable and has Arnold in his prime. And it is definitely a movie of its time. I don't want a Commando reboot because they would probably ruin it.
Fury Road and Dredd were fantastic, but those are the rare exceptions to the rule.
I thought the Robocop reboot was pretty universally panned. Watched the first 15 minutes and gave up. I'll give it another shot.
The Ghostbusters reboot was just a bad movie made by people who did not care about the originals. The Dredd makers obviously loved and respected the comics. It shows on the screen.
From what I've seen from the trailer, the new Predators movie is leaning more towards the Ghostbusters end of the scale. Sadly.
I raise my eyebrow at anyone that says the Robocop reboot was good. It simply wasnt. Period. End of! Id rather watch the 3rd Robocop movie then that and thats because Id at least laugh my ass off at how bad it is.
Yeah... Dredd was phenomenal because it embraced all the dark and gritty violence that the Stallone version shied away from.
Robocop reversed that theory, and removed the intensity and high stakes of the original in order to get the PG13. It did not work. His main weapon went from machine pistol to a taser! A taser! Rabble rabble rabble.
This hook reminds me of the Last Starfighter. Kid finds gizmo and attracts the notice of aliens. It's totally, almost painfully 80s. I'd love to see it pulled off, but I think the only way is if the kid gets so hardened by his struggles that he becomes a Predator and embraces their lifestyle. I'd buy that for a dollar.
edit-
Oh- and if the kid has some awesome shades. You can't run an 80s style movie without awesome shades, pulled up on your forehead while you look down at the Macguffin.
The RoboCop remake was cinematic gruel. It's the movie Verhoeven was parodying twenty seven years earlier, with the added twist of being milquetoast.
The first Predator was a schlock film elevated to classic status by a tight script and Arnold's performance. Predator 2 was just schlock. Predators delighted in the schlockiness of the series but pulled off some very smart scenes. This film will probably compete with P2 for bottom of the pile.
Manchu wrote: The RoboCop remake was cinematic gruel. It's the movie Verhoeven was parodying twenty seven years earlier, with the added twist of being milquetoast.
This guy gets it!
You can't remake a parody and be serious abnout the parody premise. I know in our modern world parody is hard to pull off, since reality is often more parody than the parody. It is a parody-dox.
Easy E wrote: reality is often more parody than the parody
Sums it up very well. This was my thought when they announced Jurassic World - regular dinosaurs aren't interesting enough to sell so we'll make x-treem ones ... wait is that the plot of the movie or the background of how the movie was written? Same thing with RoboCop remake - what if we remove everything that made it human for the sake of corporate profits ... again, are we talking about the character or the IP?
Looks to me it's less "Alpha Predator", more "Adult Predator". Canon was always that the juveniles were the ones who were out on their first hunts against humans/xenomorphs, right?
Kanluwen wrote: Looks to me it's less "Alpha Predator", more "Adult Predator". Canon was always that the juveniles were the ones who were out on their first hunts against humans/xenomorphs, right?
Canon had the females be the bigger gender, from what I remember. It was 20 years ago when I last read any Predator fiction.
I think canon is out the window though, if I remeber the premise of this movie.
Kanluwen wrote: Looks to me it's less "Alpha Predator", more "Adult Predator". Canon was always that the juveniles were the ones who were out on their first hunts against humans/xenomorphs, right?
Canon had the females be the bigger gender, from what I remember. It was 20 years ago when I last read any Predator fiction.
I think canon is out the window though, if I remeber the premise of this movie.
Canon has always been nebulous at best. Different writers have done different things and the avp movies (particularly the first one) threw most of it right out the window.
Kanluwen wrote: Looks to me it's less "Alpha Predator", more "Adult Predator". Canon was always that the juveniles were the ones who were out on their first hunts against humans/xenomorphs, right?
spoilers for the comics, even though it was like 30 years ago:
Spoiler:
The very first AvP ever was a comic crossover, and the plot for that was juvenile Predators hunting on a planet which had been seeded with xenomorphs via an an autonomous drone - queenless xenomorphs being considered easy "training" prey. The Predators were not aware humans were also present on the planet, and crash-landed on arrival. The Predator elder was incapacitated. The young Predators then engaged on an unauthorized hunt of the Humans (in the lore, hunting Humans was considered a high honor and had to be earned). When the elder Predator came to, he executed the young predators who had engaged in dishonorable hunts (taken trophies from children, etc).
The elder predator eventually teams up with an honorable human who had helped save him to destroy the human colony (turns out, there was a Queen after all and so the xenomorph population was out of control).
Some elements of this have made it into movies, but man, if they had adapted the original 4 part comic faithfully it would have been amazing.
Kanluwen wrote: Looks to me it's less "Alpha Predator", more "Adult Predator". Canon was always that the juveniles were the ones who were out on their first hunts against humans/xenomorphs, right?
spoilers for the comics, even though it was like 30 years ago:
Spoiler:
The very first AvP ever was a comic crossover, and the plot for that was juvenile Predators hunting on a planet which had been seeded with xenomorphs via an an autonomous drone - queenless xenomorphs being considered easy "training" prey. The Predators were not aware humans were also present on the planet, and crash-landed on arrival. The Predator elder was incapacitated. The young Predators then engaged on an unauthorized hunt of the Humans (in the lore, hunting Humans was considered a high honor and had to be earned). When the elder Predator came to, he executed the young predators who had engaged in dishonorable hunts (taken trophies from children, etc).
The elder predator eventually teams up with an honorable human who had helped save him to destroy the human colony (turns out, there was a Queen after all and so the xenomorph population was out of control).
Some elements of this have made it into movies, but man, if they had adapted the original 4 part comic faithfully it would have been amazing.
The book version by S.D. Perry is better than the comic and goes into a lot of interesting detail on pred society.
Kanluwen wrote: Looks to me it's less "Alpha Predator", more "Adult Predator". Canon was always that the juveniles were the ones who were out on their first hunts against humans/xenomorphs, right?
spoilers for the comics, even though it was like 30 years ago:
Spoiler:
The very first AvP ever was a comic crossover, and the plot for that was juvenile Predators hunting on a planet which had been seeded with xenomorphs via an an autonomous drone - queenless xenomorphs being considered easy "training" prey. The Predators were not aware humans were also present on the planet, and crash-landed on arrival. The Predator elder was incapacitated. The young Predators then engaged on an unauthorized hunt of the Humans (in the lore, hunting Humans was considered a high honor and had to be earned). When the elder Predator came to, he executed the young predators who had engaged in dishonorable hunts (taken trophies from children, etc).
The elder predator eventually teams up with an honorable human who had helped save him to destroy the human colony (turns out, there was a Queen after all and so the xenomorph population was out of control).
Some elements of this have made it into movies, but man, if they had adapted the original 4 part comic faithfully it would have been amazing.
That the one on the Desert Planet where the Predator teams up with the woman that eventually goes off to live with the Predators, or a different one?
Manchu wrote: Not sure if it was a desert planet (I seem to recall the humans being corporate ranchers) but yes that’s the one.
Dont think that concept has any relevance here, however. This movie has some kind of evolution gimmick.
Ok, yeah thats the one I wanted the AvP movies to be when they were first announced.
On topic though, yeah it does seem from the previous trailer, that evolving themselves is a thing. Even with out the Super Predator at the end, the Predator shown hunting looks more like the Super Predators from Predators in appearance (equipment wise), while the one in Mexico looks like an OG Pred.
The juveline predators in the AvP comics were roughly similar in size to the adult ones.
This one seems absolutely massive, towering over the other predator as though it's Godzilla or something. What's wrong with just the regular Predators, which after all just one of hunted down and wiped out an elite special ops team, only being stopped by Arnie at his absolute 80's bicep-size peak?
Again you can almost picture the corporate board room talk "We've already done bigger predators. If we make these even more massive ones this film is likely to make even more money."
Agreed that the basic plot sounds poor and can see myself getting annoyed by the kid that will no doubt do the classic "I won't do what anyone tells me, will get other people killed/maimed, but somehow not get skinned alive myself, which most people watching this film probably want to see happen." Also the male lead had a smug, vaguely irritating grin on his face in every scene in that trailer. And I'm guessing now he probably won't end up as a skull-trophy either.
If they can't do a good one I just want them to stop.
I want a (new) good Predator movie so badly. Predators was definitely an improvement over the AVP movies. But go back to what worked. One badass predator wrecking people in terrifying ways.
SickSix wrote: If they can't do a good one I just want them to stop.
I want a (new) good Predator movie so badly. Predators was definitely an improvement over the AVP movies. But go back to what worked. One badass predator wrecking people in terrifying ways.
Outside of a couple of the guys in the suits not knowing how to move like a predator predators is probably the second best predator movie. It certainly has less plot hole/mistakes than 2. And 2 is also great imo.
Forget avp. Avpr is pretty decent. Great predator though.
Preds have only had 1 blemish in the first avp movie. I dont understand the lack of faith in another one.
AduroT wrote: I liked the AvP movie overall myself, better than the second one actually.
You are not alone aparently! Again, this opinion never ceases to amaze me! It has worse acting, worse special effects and the titular monsters behave the least like the creatures they are supposed to be.
Kanluwen wrote: Looks to me it's less "Alpha Predator", more "Adult Predator". Canon was always that the juveniles were the ones who were out on their first hunts against humans/xenomorphs, right?
spoilers for the comics, even though it was like 30 years ago:
Spoiler:
The very first AvP ever was a comic crossover, and the plot for that was juvenile Predators hunting on a planet which had been seeded with xenomorphs via an an autonomous drone - queenless xenomorphs being considered easy "training" prey. The Predators were not aware humans were also present on the planet, and crash-landed on arrival. The Predator elder was incapacitated. The young Predators then engaged on an unauthorized hunt of the Humans (in the lore, hunting Humans was considered a high honor and had to be earned). When the elder Predator came to, he executed the young predators who had engaged in dishonorable hunts (taken trophies from children, etc).
The elder predator eventually teams up with an honorable human who had helped save him to destroy the human colony (turns out, there was a Queen after all and so the xenomorph population was out of control).
Some elements of this have made it into movies, but man, if they had adapted the original 4 part comic faithfully it would have been amazing.
I've got that comic, first edition.
Spoiler:
The heroine was a Japanese lady who teams up with the lead Predator to save the planet from being overrun and then becomes an honorary Predator.
Having a human earn the respect of and team up with a Predator is a common theme in several of the AvP stories, which is why that part of the first movie doesn’t bother me at all but was rather expected.
Also the acting has to be Really bad before I take notice of it. Very rarely will that ever be a complaint from me.
AduroT wrote: Having a human earn the respect of and team up with a Predator is a common theme in several of the AvP stories, which is why that part of the first movie doesn’t bother me at all but was rather expected.
Also the acting has to be Really bad before I take notice of it. Very rarely will that ever be a complaint from me.
Her getting the mark after helping to kill the queen was fine. Except it wasnt an unblooded youth with no authority in the comics. It was a clan leader. The clan leader then giving her a piece of their tech as a trophy is 100% bs. Preds dont share their tech. They blow it up instead of letting anyone else get a hold of it.
Its also way more out of character for a pred who knows hes hunting aliens to black out, wake up from a surprise nap, not know that hes been infected by a face hugger and then not just blow himself and the whole temple to pieces instantly.
i don't the acting in AVP was terrible. I think earlier ITT Lance outlined some very good criticisms of the film - but I would say that the stuff mentioned is the difference between a fun film and what elevates a fun film to something more. AVP in my book is just a fun film. Only the original Predator and, to some extent, Predators is anything more than just a fun film. Right now, I think The Predator will be just another fun film - fun as in, it will make me smirk, it will make me roll my eyes, but it will make me genuinely smile a few times. As opposed to something like Terminator Genisys or the RoboCop remake, which were totally miserable and put me into a rotten mood as I walked out of the theater.
Kilkrazy wrote: I don't think anyone goes to a Predator film expecting it to be like the Royal Shakespeare Company.
Yes! I want this! "Predator vs The Royal Shakespeare Company". We must do this!
It can be an avant garde comedy, where the performers think the predator is part of their new wave production, and the Predator believes he is taking trophies during some bizarre dynastic dispute.! Starring Michael McKean and Christopher Guest, with Jurgen Prochnow as the elusive director. OMG!
I remembered the super Predators and the classics being described as wolves instead of dogs in Predators. I did a little digging on The Predator to see if the "alpha" you guys are talking about is just reusing that same super vs classic. The only thing I got was that the new movie takes place between Predator 2 and Predators and that apparently the Predators are modifying their DNA with that of other species.
My take is that the alpha is just a super created by modifing their DNA. My guess is that this is something frowned upon by the classics and this movie kind of sets up that later feud. I'm not sure why we needed bigger, badder Predators to begin with so I'm not really thrilled they're back.
The black "super" predators were pretty good though. A predator that hunts predators is not a new concept. The idea that they modify their dna and then just hunt everything and anything isnt bad if done well. How its handled remains to be seen.
Oooo! Oooo! Oooo! I’m betting we find out the super predators were made/modified by humans as biological weapons/super soldiers but they escaped/went out of control and that’s why the classic predators and them don’t get along.
I kind of hope they just make all the super preds into a rogue clan/sub species that goes nuts on the genetic modifications and hunts. It's less about the code of honor and the trophy collecting and instead it's just about killing everything they can get their hands on.
Sort of expanding the Bad Blood predator into an entire clan who goes farther than just hunting preds into the genetic modification aspect.
It's hard for me to consider the Predator IP as a single, consistent setting. So I am not too concerned about how The Predator links up to anything else.
According to the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, the human FTL in Aliens has a sort of reverse time dilation, meaning the faster you are traveling (relative to light) the more subjective time you experience on your journey. So, for a trip of 4 light years that takes you 3 and a half years (for non FTL people) the shipboard time will be much less than if you make the same 4 light year journey in a month (as experienced by non FTL frames of reference). Faster real world speed='slower' onboard speed. So the reason human ships need cryosleep tubes is because they are so fast.
One thing I forgot to mention that really bothered me about the movie when I looked into it (I was falling asleep at the time), apparently they're using the troupe of the kid with autism has a special ability that is key to the plot.
Regardless. Pred tech doesnt experience that. Their ships are ftl capable without massive time dilation AND are capable of easily catching up to, intercepting, then matching and docking with human ships.
If human ftl was reverse engineered from pred ftl then humans would be capable of many of the same feats and speeds and they are not.
Also i looked into that story. Apparently that guy decided to rename the predators the hish instead of sticking with the decades old yautja. The hish means "those who take territory" which we have never seen any predator do. They are not conquerors. They go on safari.
I would take ANY information from that authors books as some of the least reliable sources there is.
Lance845 wrote: Regardless. Pred tech doesnt experience that. Their ships are ftl capable without massive time dilation AND are capable of easily catching up to, intercepting, then matching and docking with human ships.
If human ftl was reverse engineered from pred ftl then humans would be capable of many of the same feats and speeds and they are not.
Also i looked into that story. Apparently that guy decided to rename the predators the hish instead of sticking with the decades old yautja. The hish means "those who take territory" which we have never seen any predator do. They are not conquerors. They go on safari.
I would take ANY information from that authors books as some of the least reliable sources there is.
Have we ever seen Predict ships interact with human ships? Just in some of the novels?
Lance845 wrote: Regardless. Pred tech doesnt experience that. Their ships are ftl capable without massive time dilation AND are capable of easily catching up to, intercepting, then matching and docking with human ships.
If human ftl was reverse engineered from pred ftl then humans would be capable of many of the same feats and speeds and they are not.
Also i looked into that story. Apparently that guy decided to rename the predators the hish instead of sticking with the decades old yautja. The hish means "those who take territory" which we have never seen any predator do. They are not conquerors. They go on safari.
I would take ANY information from that authors books as some of the least reliable sources there is.
Have we ever seen Predict ships interact with human ships? Just in some of the novels?
Novels and comics. They have been capable of intercepting military and trade ships moving at (presumably) max speeds with their hull breaching causing the automated systems to wake the crew from cryo. Pred ships are able to maneuver around a speeding human ship as though it was standing still.
Then why didn't you start with that? You started out by saying human ships were slow, which is why they "need cryo"...which makes no sense when the faster the human ship is the more Cryo it needs.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Then why didn't you start with that? You started out by saying human ships were slow, which is why they "need cryo"...which makes no sense when the faster the human ship is the more Cryo it needs.
Because having FTL doesn't mean much when it still takes you years to get between solar systems.
Alpha Centurai is over 4 years away from our sun at light speed. If our FTL makes that trip 3 years instead it's still means you need cryo to make any trip of any meaningful distance in space. Humanities ships in the AVP universe are SLOW. They require cryo so everyone doesn't waste their lives going there and back again.
Especially when you consider the astronomical speeds Pred and Promethean ships can travel at without insane time dilation or drastic travel times.
Consider that in AVP-R the Pred ship crashes in the woods. It sends out it's distress signal and the Wolf Pred gets the signal and launches his single man ship from an alien world. He is able to reach Earth within 24-48 hours and long before any government body has a chance to discover the big Pred ship.
Thats insanity. Compare and contrast, Ripley's Nostromo, built for 3, drifted through the core worlds and got picked up on the other side. That took 57 years.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The cryo does not imply slow travel times for the humans. It has nothing to do with trips taking years. Do you have any evidence FTL trips even take that much time for STL observers or other spacecraft? FTL in Aliens doesn't require cryo sleep because the ships are slow, but rather because they are fast, causing subjective time expansion for those aboard even as the rest of the universe sees the ship zooming from A to B.
I'm pretty sure Ripley drifted so long because she was traveling slower than light in that escape shuttle.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The cryo does not imply slow travel times for the humans. It has nothing to do with trips taking years. Do you have any evidence FTL trips even take that much time for STL observers or other spacecraft? FTL in Aliens doesn't require cryo sleep because the ships are slow, but rather because they are fast, causing subjective time expansion for those aboard even as the rest of the universe sees the ship zooming from A to B.
I'm pretty sure Ripley drifted so long because she was traveling slower than light in that escape shuttle.
Yes, because every movie we have where they are talking about their travel times they are talking about those times in years. It happens in Prometheus, covenant, alien, aliens, etc etc...
Ripley's shuttle (actually named the Narcissus) was able to launch off the front of the Nostromo which was itself going at FTL speeds and was supposed to reach their destination in a couple of months. When you are measuring your travel distance from a place where you don't recognize the constellations to the known drop off point in months you are, for sure, traveling at FTL. The Narcissus was traveling at the speed of the nostromo + it's own launching speed which was fast enough to get away from the self destruct explosions.
By comparison to anything we actually have in the real world humanities ships are incredibly fast. But still very slow by other sci fi standards. The Enterprise and anything from SW is astronomically faster. But without needing to use hyperspace or warp tech the Predators seem to be able to at minimum keep pace with those franchises if not out pace them.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, the military is hybridization the predators, presumably to make the deadliest predators on Earth? To use as weapons? Can you imagine if we'd had those bad boys at Tora Bora?
Where did you get that its the military hybridizing? The very next line is "They're upgrading on every planet they visit." Maybe the Preds are hybridizing themselves.
well picking up some decent pilot DNA would be an obvious improvement as they seem genetically unable to not crash into Earth everytime they come close
Manchu wrote: The Nostromo was moving at FTL speeds when it self-destructed?
They lifted off of LV-426. They reattached to the refinery/mining rig. And Lambert (their Navigator) makes a mention of them being on course and how long it will take before they reach their destination.
Now I am thinking the first "predator" is not actually a predator but someone in a predator suit (aka predator armor). The big one is an actual predator.
Action looks fun. The predators have full motion in their faces and their mouths can close unlike the ones from the first AvP. It looks like we will have good competent human vs pred and pred vs pred action. I have high hopes for my bare minimum expectations of a pred movie to be met and potentially exceeded.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The cryo does not imply slow travel times for the humans. It has nothing to do with trips taking years. Do you have any evidence FTL trips even take that much time for STL observers or other spacecraft? FTL in Aliens doesn't require cryo sleep because the ships are slow, but rather because they are fast, causing subjective time expansion for those aboard even as the rest of the universe sees the ship zooming from A to B.
I'm pretty sure Ripley drifted so long because she was traveling slower than light in that escape shuttle.
Exactly. the time between LV-426 sending a (presumably FTL) signal to Earth, the Company debating it, assembling a Marine contingent and recruiting Ripley then the Sulaco turning up was only weeks (does Newt ever say exactly how long?).
As it happens, applying the time dilation formula to speeds greater than c results in an imaginary time rather than it passing slower, but at least the authors of the Technical Manual tried.
Going by the movies, we have no idea how Predators travel; they may use suspended animation of some sort too. The ancillary material is interesting, but other than being a potential source of plot ideas, I don't think they've any bearing on the films.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: Isn’t that supposed to be how actual speed works? The closer to light you get the more relative time slows down?
In the real world, as the observed speed of an object increases, the rate of time slows down for that object compared to the observer (this is measurable, and also applies to the effect of gravity - the stronger the force of gravity, the slower time moves. This has to be taken into account by the calculations involved in GPS navigation).
This means that something moving faster experiences less time passing than something at rest.
In the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, it says this happens the other way around when moving faster than c; a ship that moves at 2c experiences less time passing than one moving at 4c. From the pint of view of an outside observer, the faster ship takes less time to make the trip, but from the point of view of the crew, it takes them longer.
Read the leaks and spoilers and it looks like this movie is going to be terrible. I don't understand how they can screw up Predator over the years as much as they have, but they are keeping that torch lit.
Predator 1 is a classic, and I also think Predators was great. Disappointed there was no follow up to that, but it makes sense that there isn't.
I also am leaning strongly negative to this. I feel like it's falling into a lot of the traps that Jurassic World did: You don't need some new fancy super predator. You don't need some gakky subplot about genetic engineering. The original product was good. We want more of that.
Just put a regular, stock Predator in some new setting; do the same stuff as Predator 1 & 2, this is not a complex backstory that needs to be developed and expanded upon.
whembly wrote: So... the 'umies find a wounded unconscious normal Pred... he wakes up to wreck havoc...
But, there's a ginormous, less armoured, Uber Pred that "evolved"?
Whut?
Looks cool tho.
It's one of the most shallow ways to raise stakes (while devaluing the core concept) in a sequel, just have a bigger version of the monster. I mean the fact that some sequels feel like they need to raise the stakes and won't find other creative ways to get an audience invested is problematic in
whembly wrote: So... the 'umies find a wounded unconscious normal Pred... he wakes up to wreck havoc...
But, there's a ginormous, less armoured, Uber Pred that "evolved"?
Whut?
Looks cool tho.
It's one of the most shallow ways to raise stakes (while devaluing the core concept) in a sequel, just have a bigger version of the monster. I mean the fact that some sequels feel like they need to raise the stakes and won't find other creative ways to get an audience invested is problematic in
itself.
I didnt feel like the black super preds from Predators was just "make it bigger". They showed us a new facet of the preds. 1) a game reserve instead of just going into the wilds and looking for prey. 2) pred on pred violence. Which weve never seen in the movies before.
If this movie is a continuation of that concept its not in any way a bad thing. The idea that there is a rogue element of the preds out there who are augmenting themselves and hunting regular preds and not worrying about the standard pred code we get from the first 2 movies is something we could stand to see more of and find out more about it. The trailers dont tell us enough to say thats not happening. Why start off asuming its just going to be the most basic shallow approach when no pred film has done that yet?
Ouze wrote: I also am leaning strongly negative to this. I feel like it's falling into a lot of the traps that Jurassic World did: You don't need some new fancy super predator. You don't need some gakky subplot about genetic engineering. The original product was good. We want more of that.
Just put a regular, stock Predator in some new setting; do the same stuff as Predator 1 & 2, this is not a complex backstory that needs to be developed and expanded upon.
Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
I'm actually looking much more forward to the 4K/digital remaster of the original film that is due to come out next month.
This movie doesn't seem particularly promising to me. If this had been set in a place similar to the concrete jungle video game like a futuristic decaying urban ghetto punk setting it could be interesting. I'm not sure why every Predator movie has to be so much more of the same but with more and more action.
The first trailer had me nearly wretching. Reminded me in the worst possible way of AvP2.
The second looked vaguely decent. However it pretty much seemed to give the whole darn plot away in a synopsis.
So some details about reshoots are mentioned below, after test screenings came back negative. I've personally decided I won't be going to see this movie, but for those that intend to, I've spoilered for your protection.
Via BloodyDisgusting.com, possible plot details in the reshoot references:
(Again, Spoilers)
Spoiler:
t’s been openly reported that, after a test screening, there had been some significant reshoots on Shane Black‘s The Predator. It was alleged that the third act had been retooled, with costar Keegan-Micheal Key confirming them in an interview. Now, AvP Galaxy has all of the details, revealing major changes that include new deaths and less Predators. SPOILER WARNING.
Early photos that leaked during filming revealed (ridiculous looking) shots of “friendly” Predators riding atop an APC tank and aiming an automatic weapon. The site reports that all of the friendly Predators have been removed from the latest edit. In addition to less Predators, all of the “hybrid creatures” have been removed with the exception of the “Predator Dog”.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg. The site also reports that all death sequences involving the more prominent characters have also been completely changed and the final battle with the Upgrade Predator takes place at night in the woods. This part is wild: “After attacking the Project: Stargazer base, Upgrade gives the survivors a chance to escape before he begins to hunt them to find the best fighter amongst them.”
There are even more changes detailed, with the latest cut including additional scenes that connect The Predator to the previous films, including Alien vs. Predator. “Lex’s spear is now displayed alongside City Hunter’s spear from Predator 2. Casey, Olivia Munn’s character, is also shown some grainy pictures of the Predators from the first two films.” Jake Busey plays the son of Gary Busey’s Predator 2 character, which makes this reveal pretty interesting.
How awesome would it be to see all of the original scenes when the film is eventually released on home video? Here’s hoping…
While those changes will probably make the film better, I'm still not sure it will be good. Also, there's a big part of me that wants to see those deleted elements in a full camp edit of the film. It might be a more pleasurable experience as trash.
Nothing says a movie is going to be awesome like extensive reshoots after test screenings.
The cut elements from that description sounds truly atrocious and to be frank the fact they were written, storyboarded, and directed at all shows that the franchise was probably placed into hands it should not have.
The first movie had extensive reshoots after the lead role actor was changed from Jean-Claude Van Damme to Kevin Peter Hall.
The stilt-legs costume (amongst other things) had to be changed and all that footage reshot. They didn't perfect the leg setup until "Underworld" for its Lycans).
I don't think that's accurate.. right?. The problems with the original suit were IIRC discovered during test shoots, which is pretty much why test shoots happen. It's a world of difference between that, and reshooting a finished movie that's already gone through post.
“We started to worry as soon as we started test shooting, and after a few scenes, the worry crystallized," Schwarzenegger later wrote. "The creature didn’t work, it was hokey, it didn’t look believable."
Almost as an afterthought, he added: "Also, Jean-Claude Van Damme, who was playing the predator, was a relentless complainer."
We never shot anything with him. It was a complete screw up with his agent, trying to hustle him into a job and didn't know what the movie was. It's silly. It was really silly.
Final trailer is out. This is red band for violence and language, so NSFW.
I think my original take was "meh", and this trailer doesn't elevate it to "awesome", but it's an improvement. You can really tell this is a Shane Black movie by the dialogue in it.
I guess adding F-bombs makes it more extreme bro! feth yeah!
I love the Predator franchise, and I absolutely adore the scenes in this trailer where they are wrecking fools, but I just can’t get excited for this movie. I think I was more excited for the Statham giant shark movie.
I’ll give this a rent in a few months time, unless the reviews come back positive somehow. Which I doubt, I think there were reshoots of the reshoots that I posted about earlier in this thread. I like a few of the actors in this flick, so I hope its decent.
The Predator is a character that best serves itself by being seen as little as possible. Over the top action sequences and mountains of blood and violence might make a passable action movie but is a waste of the character imo.
Plus this whole "self evolution" bent the franchise has gotten into is really really dumb. It just doesn't work imo.
LordofHats wrote: The Predator is a character that best serves itself by being seen as little as possible. Over the top action sequences and mountains of blood and violence might make a passable action movie but is a waste of the character imo.
Plus this whole "self evolution" bent the franchise has gotten into is really really dumb. It just doesn't work imo.
I think the 'less is more' really only works for the first movie. After you see the predator in the first movie, it has lost its mystery.
Releasing it this time of year also seems to be an indication of the studio's lack of faith in the project. January and February are usually the industry's 'dump months', but August and September are also seen this way as well - although to a lesser degree.
I like the predator movies, but I really feel there isn't a lot for them to build upon. The core premise of the movie was born from "The Most Dangerous Game", which while appealing -- doesn't really lend itself well to expanding itself beyond that base narrative. They could try to expand the lore and sneak a more involved story/backstory/etc into it, but ultimately if the movie isn't just a re-re-retelling of "The Most Dangerous Game", it will disappoint audiences.
Ok, I'm going to make it a rule that I won't watch any film where the trailer involves a woman opening a door, smiling at some grimacing law enforcement and saying some variant of "what's he done now?"
I can't even begin with how tired and played out that is.
After seeing all these trailers I just don't get why this movie was made. I mean it might turn out better than the AvP movies at least, but that's not a high bar at all to begin with. I just can't help but ask why. But then again blade runner never needed a sequel, out of all movies. The thing is, the execution on that was so clearly solid from the beginning there was very little why type questions needing to be asked.
This however is just meh, questionable if not outright bad casting etc. Normally I try to be optimistic, life is so grim as it is. But idk just cause this director was an actor in the original doesn't mean he knows how to pull off this kind of movie.
LordofHats wrote: The Predator is a character that best serves itself by being seen as little as possible. Over the top action sequences and mountains of blood and violence might make a passable action movie but is a waste of the character imo.
Plus this whole "self evolution" bent the franchise has gotten into is really really dumb. It just doesn't work imo.
Yeah, super predators that are bigger than the other normal predators is lame, as are the predator dogs in the context of visiting earth.
LordofHats wrote: The Predator is a character that best serves itself by being seen as little as possible. Over the top action sequences and mountains of blood and violence might make a passable action movie but is a waste of the character imo.
Plus this whole "self evolution" bent the franchise has gotten into is really really dumb. It just doesn't work imo.
Yeah, super predators that are bigger than the other normal predators is lame, as are the predator dogs in the context of visiting earth.
Meh, this could all just be us seeing snippets of the battles between regular Yautja and Bad Bloods. The Bad Bloods may be an exiled clan because of their genetic modification and hunting of the regular Yautja. Predators (Pred 3) had Nolan explain they were like the difference between dogs and wolves but hes an unreliable narrator in that respect. It's just the explanation he came up with based on his limited observations.
This movie might be expanding on that. With either Bad bloods coming to earth and Enforcer/s coming to kill them or Bad Bloods hunting the hunters while they are just doing their normal thing on earth. If they are bad bloods there is no line they wouldn't cross including dumping pred dogs on earth or whatever.
LordofHats wrote: The Predator is a character that best serves itself by being seen as little as possible. Over the top action sequences and mountains of blood and violence might make a passable action movie but is a waste of the character imo.
Plus this whole "self evolution" bent the franchise has gotten into is really really dumb. It just doesn't work imo.
Yeah, super predators that are bigger than the other normal predators is lame, as are the predator dogs in the context of visiting earth.
Meh, this could all just be us seeing snippets of the battles between regular Yautja and Bad Bloods. The Bad Bloods may be an exiled clan because of their genetic modification and hunting of the regular Yautja. Predators (Pred 3) had Nolan explain they were like the difference between dogs and wolves but hes an unreliable narrator in that respect. It's just the explanation he came up with based on his limited observations.
This movie might be expanding on that. With either Bad bloods coming to earth and Enforcer/s coming to kill them or Bad Bloods hunting the hunters while they are just doing their normal thing on earth. If they are bad bloods there is no line they wouldn't cross including dumping pred dogs on earth or whatever.
That does sound better... was that in the old Dark Horse comics?
Seems to be too much humour based and the 'heroes' seem awkward. The most convincing character so far seems to be the one who was in GoT and that's because he doesn't say anything.
Such a shame, could be good but I never really had high hopes for this one. The've kinda missed out on what made 1 and 2 good, even Predators was reasonable.
LordofHats wrote: The Predator is a character that best serves itself by being seen as little as possible. Over the top action sequences and mountains of blood and violence might make a passable action movie but is a waste of the character imo.
Plus this whole "self evolution" bent the franchise has gotten into is really really dumb. It just doesn't work imo.
Yeah, super predators that are bigger than the other normal predators is lame, as are the predator dogs in the context of visiting earth.
Meh, this could all just be us seeing snippets of the battles between regular Yautja and Bad Bloods. The Bad Bloods may be an exiled clan because of their genetic modification and hunting of the regular Yautja. Predators (Pred 3) had Nolan explain they were like the difference between dogs and wolves but hes an unreliable narrator in that respect. It's just the explanation he came up with based on his limited observations.
This movie might be expanding on that. With either Bad bloods coming to earth and Enforcer/s coming to kill them or Bad Bloods hunting the hunters while they are just doing their normal thing on earth. If they are bad bloods there is no line they wouldn't cross including dumping pred dogs on earth or whatever.
That does sound better... was that in the old Dark Horse comics?
I only read a few of them almost 20 years ago.
There was a comic called badblood that was about an exile who hunted other predators and an enforcer who was in turn hunting the bad blood. It didnt have any genetic modification stuff. But whatever. Once they are exiles who really gives a gak as long as it makes them good bad guys.
I think this was the newest reshoot,, after the first round of reshoots I mentioned previously.
As we’ve reported, Shane Black’s The Predator underwent final hour reshoots earlier this year, but as it turns out, Black tinkering with the film’s final act was only the tip of the iceberg in regards to its behind the scenes, post production issues. A report from Los Angeles Times today sheds light on a whole new issue, and it sounds like Black has some explaining to do.
According to the site, Black cast his friend Steven Wilder Striegel (47) in a brief role, “a three-page scene shared with actress Olivia Munn.” It was only after filming wrapped that Munn learned Striegel is a convicted sex offender, having plead guilty back in 2010 “after facing allegations that he attempted to lure a 14-year-old female into a sexual relationship via the internet.” In fact, it sounds like nobody was aware of Striegel’s past at the time, save for Black himself.
Last month, Munn approached 20th Century Fox with what she had learned, and to their credit, the studio swiftly edited Striegel out of the film.
As a spokesperson explained to LA Times, “Our studio was not aware of Mr. Striegel’s background when he was hired. We were not aware of his background during the casting process due to legal limitations that impede studios from running background checks on actors.”
Black and Striegel are longtime friends, and Black has also cast him in both Iron Man 3 and The Nice Guys. According to Black, he’s just been trying to “help a friend.”
“I personally chose to help a friend,” Black said in a written statement to LA Times. “I can understand others might disapprove, as his conviction was on a sensitive charge and not to be taken lightly. [Striegel was] caught up in a bad situation versus something lecherous.”
As for Munn, she notes that she found it “both surprising and unsettling that Shane Black, our director, did not share this information to the cast, crew, or Fox Studios prior to, during, or after production.” She added in her statement to LA Times, “I am relieved that when Fox finally did receive the information, the studio took appropriate action by deleting the scene featuring Wilder prior to release of the film.”
Reshoots are whatever. Not only do they happen all the time regardless, sometimes massive reshoots make a movie pretty good. Both Rogue 1 and Solo were massively reshot and both were at least solidly made movies. Solo even had the main villian recast for the reshoots because the original actor was unavailable for them.
That being said. Good on Fox. If you want to help a friend then don't hide it. Man up to it and make it public while you get back on the straight and narrow.
their film critic wrote:A refreshingly unrestrained return to the sci-fi franchise balances snappy humour and relentless action with fun if somewhat forgettable results
...
The action is also relatively nonstop yet despite this, or maybe because of this, the film lacks a genuine jaw-dropper of a set piece.
...
There’s definite fun to be had here and franchise fans will surely appreciate both Black’s nods to the past and his plan for the future but there’s something forgettable about its freneticism, and I struggle to imagine in 31 years if it will be thought of at all.
AduroT wrote: He served his time in jail eight years ago. Is he never allowed to have a job again?
That's not the argument that Olivia Munn made. The argument was that she wasn't allowed to make an informed choice; that Shane Black put her in the scene with a man she knew was a sex offender without letting her know. Maybe she was worried for her personal safety, maybe she was worried for her brand, whatever. I don't think either party is really a bad guy here, it's kind of a gakky situation that poor communication created.
It was a very, very uneven movie. There were definitely parts that were terrific - the Predators were brutal and they didn't shy away from extreme violence like so many movies now try to do; this is an R rated franchise that knows it.
None of the acting was great, but neither was any of it terrible. OIivia Munn had a lot more to do than I thought from the trailers. Boyd Holbrook is a good actor but to be honest I don't think he really can carry a movie in the way that a major movie star can. No one else was really noteworthy except Sterling K Brown, who had some charisma but no real menace.
There was no groan-inducing dialogue or bad writing, but the plot is a little lame.
If you're interested in it as a movie and aren't invested in it as a franchise; then I'd watch it on Netflix, you probably won't like it that much. If you are the person who has seen all of them in theaters, then it's probably worth a trip. It's not the best in the franchise but neither is it the worst.
Some spoilers.
Spoiler:
The idea of the Predators harvesting DNA as a retcon seems lame.
Predators hunting Predators isn't new and is OK, but the motivations seem weak. Why would one of the predators have a sense of altruism towards humans in general? Since this Predator acts in ways that are distinctly "human" such as briefly using a firearm and the thumbs-up, are they saying this Predator was once human? I hope not, that's stupid.
The Predator dogs were OK.
I don't like that they translated Predator speech. It demystifies them too much.
The anti-predator armor at the end is absolutely the worst part of the movie and it should have been left on the cutting room floor. This doesn't need to be Iron Predator III.
Bringing in Jake Busey as Keye's son was a nice touch.
In my opinion it's the second worst Predator movie after AvP: Requiem, and I had to put some serious thought into it to make that call.
I'm sure some people will at least find it mildly entertaining, but it was definitely a huge let down for me.
It was a very, very uneven movie. There were definitely parts that were terrific - the Predators were brutal and they didn't shy away from extreme violence like so many movies now try to do; this is an R rated franchise that knows it.
None of the acting was great, but neither was any of it terrible. OIivia Munn had a lot more to do than I thought from the trailers. Boyd Holbrook is a good actor but to be honest I don't think he really can carry a movie in the way that a major movie star can. No one else was really noteworthy except Sterling K Brown, who had some charisma but no real menace.
Agreed on that first part. I definitely enjoyed the first half of the movie as the action was good and the humor was surprisingly great. Unfortunately, it took a serious nose in the last quarter of the movie and the reshoots are really evident both in the pacing, missed plot points referenced in the dialog, and the substandard CGI... and it culminates in a SyFy Saturday Sharknado style corny ending scene that sets up the sequel that probably won't ever be made. The only surprise twist for me was that Yvonne Strahovski actually plays a small part in the movie (the main character's wife and mother to their child); I don't recall seeing her in any of the preview trailers or publicity for the movie.
I saw it for $3.33 (one of my three allowed Moviepass slots for $9.99 a month) and I got my money's worth. If you're paying full price $10+ then I'd only recommend it if you're a fan of the franchise. For me personally, the first half of the movie was very well done and if it had continued like that then I'd be here posting that it was the best movie in the franchise since the original. Unfortunately, it ends at a quality level more reminiscent of AVP Requiem in the last 15 minutes with a steady slide in between.
ErkyTimbers wrote: In my opinion it's the second worst Predator movie after AvP: Requiem, and I had to put some serious thought into it to make that call. I'm sure some people will at least find it mildly entertaining, but it was definitely a huge let down for me.
That's what happens when you get woke, you go broke, mainly because the end product is sub-sub-par. Thanks for the warning you saved me some cash.
Here is my ranking of films with Predators in them.
1) Predator 2) Predators 3) AVP R 4) Predator 2 5) The Predator 6) AVP
I want to note that at minimum I expect the Predators to behave like Predators. Thats why AVP is always last. The Aliens don't act like aliens. The preds don't act like preds.
The Predator starts off decent enough. The dialogs a bit goofy. But serviceable in the first act.
By the second act it's getting a little off track but still good enough.
The 3rd act is where it all falls apart and gak gets real weird.
The final scene is also just the worst. Like... absolutely the worst.
There is also weird left wing global warming gak sprinkled in the movie along with a bunch of right wing military spank. It's super weird. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Shane Black was trying to make political statements. Not sure if that was his intent. Or if he just wanted to use topical issues in the dialog to beat us over the head with. I don't know. It just felt really out of place pretty much every time. I am not sure Shane Black should be writing and directing anything any more. This is exactly like Iron Man 3 but R rated. That is to say... it plays fast and loose with the canon and attempts to add to it but does so in ways that basically break the universe. Remember that time Tony Stark cured all injury and death with extremis? Well... expect something similar (that is to say, world breaking and dumb) that will also be ignored by future movies from this.
You know how everyone got super upset about their childhood and starwars? Alien and Predator movies are my childhood. If I got a "thing" these are my "thing". I spent half this movie laughing about how bad bits of it were. Im glad I got a 4k box set of pred 1-3. Im gunna go watch the good ones now as a palate cleanse.
warboss wrote: I don't think I've ever seen AVPR ranked so highly in a personal fav list before.
I like it a lot too. It's definitely one of the worst films for the character, but I enjoyed it more than AVP or Predators. I think it's because AVPR was closer to what I want a Predator film to be like, but you know... without being so bad in nearly every area XD
warboss wrote: I don't think I've ever seen AVPR ranked so highly in a personal fav list before.
The Wolf (the predator from AvP R) is my favorite Predator. it's the most brutal, bad ass predator we have seen to date. The only problems with AvP R is that the beginning of the movie ties it in to AvP and the human cast is weak. The aliens are great. The predator is great.
AvP on the other hand has the worst aliens, the dumbest predators, the worst special effects (it's the only movie where the predator face masks can't actually close their mouths. Their cheek flaps or whatever bend outwards like they are being blasted in the face by a fan). A crappy human cast and a plot that both doesn't make sense and just sucks.
I see people rank AvP over AvP R all the time. It confuses the feth out of me. I can't find ANYTHING redeeming about that movie.
I see people rank AvP over AvP R all the time. It confuses the feth out of me. I can't find ANYTHING redeeming about that movie.
And I found AVPR to be by far the worst movie in the combined franchise yet you like it. The only redeeming thing about it was the addition of the predalien that I had liked in previous video games. Other than that, it's addition to the lore of pregnant women birthing litters of aliens and the supposed ultimate hunter species in the galaxy fully aware of the xenomorph being unable to handle a single alien on a clan ship filled with predators to be more laughable than anything in the original AVP. I fully agree with people who rank AVP over AVP R and I even consider it a guilty pleasure movie of mine similar to the original Starship Troopers. For example, AVP was the first movie to explore the predator society and culture in any depth beyond just calling them hunters and the single scene at the end of Pred 2 and I personally like what it added. I enjoyed the mix of practical and CG effects in the movie as well and think they did the best they could with the budget and rating they were shooting for despite vehemently disagreeing with the decision to make it PG-13. I'm not saying that to antagonize you but rather to simply show that different people have different preferences.
I see people rank AvP over AvP R all the time. It confuses the feth out of me. I can't find ANYTHING redeeming about that movie.
And I found AVPR to be by far the worst movie in the combined franchise yet you like it. The only redeeming thing about it was the addition of the predalien that I had liked in previous video games. Other than that, it's addition to the lore of pregnant women birthing litters of aliens and the supposed ultimate hunter species in the galaxy fully aware of the xenomorph being unable to handle a single alien on a clan ship filled with predators to be more laughable than anything in the original AVP.
I see this a lot too. It wasn't pregnant women birthing liters. It's any person the Pred Alien/Premature Queen laid embryos directly into. The homeless people in the sewer also got the multiple embryo treatment. It's how the queen builds up a large swarm to build a hive quick enough so she can establish a egg chamber and sit in safety at the center of the hive. The advantage of the pregnant ladies in the hospital is they were all bed ridden and lined up AND healthy hosts. Not at all unlike the way aliens already set up people inside a hive.
The predators not being able to handle the pred alien on their ship was fine to me only because THOSE preds were the idiot incompetent preds from AvP. The ones who woke up from being unconscious without his mask and didn't immediately blow himself up knowing he had been impregnated. The idiots who didn't scan a dead pred that came back from hunting aliens to see if it was impregnated and then left the body untended on a slab in the back of the ship.
fething morons.
I fully agree with people who rank AVP over AVP R and I even consider it a guilty pleasure movie of mine similar to the original Starship Troopers. For example, AVP was the first movie to explore the predator society and culture in any depth beyond just calling them hunters and the single scene at the end of Pred 2 and I personally like what it added. I enjoyed the mix of practical and CG effects in the movie as well and think they did the best they could with the budget and rating they were shooting for despite vehemently disagreeing with the decision to make it PG-13. I'm not saying that to antagonize you but rather to simply show that different people have different preferences.
Hey man, i get that you have your own opinion. You're welcome to it.
I don't mind a mix of practical and CGI. I have a problem with an alien having a like... 20 ft long tail. Aliens gestating and coming out of bodies in about 20 minutes. Aliens willing to injure queens. Drones being problem solving smart like a queen when they should only be instinctual animal intelligent. Predator masks being unable to close their mouths. Inconsistent pred tech being immune to alien acid or not (immune: spears, knives, claws, shuikens // Not immune: Blade net, armor (this is a particularly confusing one since these are the most armored preds we have seen so far. If it's not acid proof then what the feth is it for?)), the aforementioned idiocy of the predators, a clan leader giving a human a piece of pred tech at the end of the movie...
sigh....
Again, Aliens and Preds is my thing. AvP is just baffling in it's badness. By all means you are welcome to enjoy it. It doesn't bother me any that you do. It's just a movie that gets every facet of the subject matter so wrong that I can't understand how it could be rated above any other movie that gets the subject matter right.
Yet again Hollywood manages to deliver a bland action Movie, I do not understand how they managed to mix in familiy drama and such in a Predator Movie! but at least people died horribly in the Movie.
Just saw the new one today. I liked it, but it could have been better. The action scenes were what we'd expect from a Predator movie, with plenty of humans getting eviscerated messily while trying in vain to shoot the big scary Predator. I didn't care for the environmentalist bs they threw in there, but fortunately they didn't spend time harping on that. Overall a solid 7/10 for me.
warboss wrote: I don't think I've ever seen AVPR ranked so highly in a personal fav list before.
The Wolf (the predator from AvP R) is my favorite Predator. it's the most brutal, bad ass predator we have seen to date. The only problems with AvP R is that the beginning of the movie ties it in to AvP and the human cast is weak. The aliens are great. The predator is great.
I agree with all of your points. AVPR was pretty bad but it did have some excellent ingredients that weren't well combined, as well as some terrible ones - the predalien was pretty bad, how it reproduces was even worse, and the pregnant woman scene seems like it was just thrown in there for pure, 100% shock value.
warboss wrote: I don't think I've ever seen AVPR ranked so highly in a personal fav list before.
The Wolf (the predator from AvP R) is my favorite Predator. it's the most brutal, bad ass predator we have seen to date. The only problems with AvP R is that the beginning of the movie ties it in to AvP and the human cast is weak. The aliens are great. The predator is great.
I agree with all of your points. AVPR was pretty bad but it did have some excellent ingredients that weren't well combined, as well as some terrible ones - the predalien was pretty bad, how it reproduces was even worse, and the pregnant woman scene seems like it was just thrown in there for pure, 100% shock value.
For sure. I won't argue that AvP R is a GOOD movie in the way Predator, Alien, and Aliens are legit REALLY good movies. AvP R is just entertaining and serviceable and clearly better than AvP.
I thought the interplay with the soldiers was amusing but I can also see why people might not like it. Not realistic at all in terms of portraying how actual soldiers would fight. Could have done without the dogs the design was meh I thought the boar like dogs from Predators were much better and significantly more intimidating. Disappointed they didn't drop the want some candy line in.
Spoiler:
Kid freaks out borderline catatonic from loud noises, the fire alarm and the neighbors dog but is fine with multiple automatic weapons firing around him everywhere, makes total sense.
I wanted to see Busey die a very messy death.
The Gundam Predator armor was dumb as hell and way too Ironman-ish. If they wanted to go full jump the shark for the closing they should have had a predator tech cyborged up Arnold step out of the pod, so much wasted potential with that scene.
I don't get why they always feel that they need to have the female as some sort of she-women do it all badass only to get tossed aside like a rag doll so the male main liner can suddenly swing the battle. If she's a super scientist or some sort of spec ops person that's great and believeable, but superscientist-slash-super-duper-solider all in one combo just doesn't gel very well. Last time I checked most laboratory egg heads aren't running obstacle courses whilst slinging machine guns like a pro in a firefight. I hate to say it but in action films one dimensional characters are usually more believable (male or female) and don't actually need a ton of character development so long as they have a well defined personality hook. When they can do everything while kicking total ass it just falls apart IMO.
I don't get why they always feel that they need to have the female as some sort of she-women do it all badass only to get tossed aside like a rag doll so the male main liner can suddenly swing the battle. If she's a super scientist or some sort of spec ops person that's great and believeable, but superscientist-slash-super-duper-solider all in one combo just doesn't gel very well. Last time I checked most laboratory egg heads aren't running obstacle courses whilst slinging machine guns like a pro in a firefight. I hate to say it but in action films one dimensional characters are usually more believable (male or female) and don't actually need a ton of character development so long as they have a well defined personality hook. When they can do everything while kicking total ass it just falls apart IMO.
Why is the long history of men do-it-alls okay but the woman isn't?
Gordon Freeman is the only example you bring up even somewhat analagous to Olivia Munn's character in The Predator. And, well, there's also a female brainiac action heroine in HL2, or did you forget Alyx Vance?
Anyhow, the issue isn't that a woman can't be a polymath and a hardcore badass, physically. Lara Croft has been a beloved example of this for how many decades now? The issue is, any character, male or female, requires supporting characterization. Olivia Munn's character doesn't have that. If the bland Army Ranger character started talking about particle physics out of nowhere, it would be just as dumb.
Manchu wrote: Gordon Freeman is the only example you bring up even somewhat analagous to Olivia Munn's character in The Predator. And, well, there's also a female brainiac action heroine in HL2, or did you forget Alyx Vance?
Disagree. You should read about Doc Savage. The super scientist adventurer is basically every person from the pulp era. Including... Tarzan. A crazy physical bad ass who is also a super genius that taught himself several languages in their writen form and only didn't know how to speak any of them because he never heard the sounds. Indiana Jones IS a scientist. He's not an adventurer. He's an egg head archeologist who specifically tells his students that archeology is a lot of reading, studying, and writing. But then he DOES go on the adventures and does all the winning. Batman is a super scientist with a focus on his detective work but his large egg head knowledge base includes chemistry (including bio chem), anatomy and medical science, and various earth sciences.
Anyhow, the issue isn't that a woman can't be a polymath and a hardcore badass, physically. Lara Croft has been a beloved example of this for how many decades now? The issue is, any character, male or female, requires supporting characterization. Olivia Munn's character doesn't have that. If the bland Army Ranger character started talking about particle physics out of nowhere, it would be just as dumb.
Every character in this movie was dumb. From the autism is a super power kid all the way up to olivia munns best character in the movie who was also dumb. It's a bad movie.
stanman wrote: I don't get why they always feel that they need to have the female as some sort of she-women do it all badass only to get tossed aside like a rag doll so the male main liner can suddenly swing the battle. If she's a super scientist or some sort of spec ops person that's great and believeable, but superscientist-slash-super-duper-solider all in one combo just doesn't gel very well.
I'd love to see that trope subverted, ie the character starts to try doing super soldier stuff, gets ragdolled, and then yells "I'm actually a geologist man!" or something to that effect.
Indy is an adventurer first and foremost from his earliest days. I'd suggest watching the movies and the TV show to learn more about this character. Turning to Batman, we have a superhero without actual super powers - but all his knowledge and combat espertise are well established. Doc Savage is not even a current reference but I guess you only bring him up to suggest he is a prototype. The problem there is, depicting a male hero as a paragon of all desirable traits has been completely out-of-fashion for at least 40 years and in fact both Indy and Batman are great examples of heroic men with anti-heroic flaws.
I agree wholeheartedly that every character in The Predator is dumb. But they are dumb in a variety of ways. The specific way that Olivia Munn's character is dumb is that she is an out-of-nowhere badass.
BTW I also agree that autism-is-a-super-power is dumb. It's by far the dumbest part of this movie. I am shocked to see it in a movie in 2018. It seems to be a theme for the entire film, however, as the fact that the main crew all appear to be super badasses seems linked to them having mental disabilities.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ouze wrote: I'd love to see that trope subverted, ie the character starts to try doing super soldier stuff, gets ragdolled, and then yells "I'm actually a geologist man!" or something to that effect.
I thought we were headed that route when she shoots herself in the foot and then the whole amusing betting scene when she wakes up. Good stuff for a different movie. But then by the third act when the production suddenly remembers this is a Predator film, she becomes a spec ops legend b/c script?
Manchu wrote: But they are dumb in a variety of ways. The specific way that Olivia Munn's character is dumb is that she is an out-of-nowhere badass.
Good stuff for a different movie. But then by the third act when the production suddenly remembers this is a Predator film, she becomes a spec ops legend b/c script?
With how badly this movie was edited I can't rule out that there was some piece of this film that does lay out some background explaining this that wound up on a cutting room floor. Not that excuses the omission, and I wouldn't normally try to reach for explanations for why a movie is broken, because we only care that it is - but this was is so clearly something that was killed by committee that it seems a possible extrapolation.
BTW I also agree that autism-is-a-super-power is dumb. It's by far the dumbest part of this movie.
I'd still have to go with the very final scene being the dumbest part.
I think I would have been OK with the autistic kid being good with puzzles etc without them layering on that extra dialogue; you know which parts. There is another good example of this where they take a not terrible element and then make it way worse by spelling it out - the climate change piece. Another eye rolling moment.
I do stand by the fact that I enjoyed this movie generally, but I also said from the very beginning that I have seen every movie (and the related ones) in theaters, read all of the (vastly better) comics, and that I am heavily biased so consider that with my opinion.
That's a great point, the movie is a structural mess seemingly released in desperation to be done and over with.
OTOH I am not convinced there was anything worthwhile even if we were to see a director's cut. I think the moment a kid appeared in the trailer, it was just a matter of completely unfounded hope that this could be anything other than what it turned out to be.
The final scene of the movie was like someone taking a dump on top of a cake they worked really hard to bake but it came out terribly anyhow so hey why not just also literally gak on it, like somehow that will make you feel better. And while a stack of gak coils on top of a cake is indeed shocking, the really awful part is what drove someone to do it. And that's where we get to the main conceptual twist of The Predator.
For context, I am an honest to goodness Predator fan and have also read all the comics and the novelizations based on them and (while I like AVP better) I will even defend AVP R. When it comes to The Predator, I hated the entire movie as a Predator film. But I hated the second and third acts of the movie as a human being.
Overall I didn’t hate the movie. Good enough action bits. Cute redefining previous assumptions of trophy hunting for the bio upgrade bits. Magic autism is dumb but a tired enough cliche I just kind of accepted it (though had flashbacks to Community I think it was). I didn’t mind spec ops lady, because she really wasn’t? I mean right from the start where she’s pursuing the escapee she’s shown to be reasonably competent/action oriented, and I don’t recall her doing anything exceptionally bad arsed in the later part.
The parts that most bugged me were the dog, which I just don’t understand what was going on there, and the contents of the pod, which I’d much rather have been a person.
I seem to recall her jumping on Predator the Larger near the end after, as noted above, she must have run 15-20 miles through the forest to catch up with the fleeing ship.
You don’t have to be super spec ops just to jump on someone’s back from higher ground. I mean she jumped onto a moving bus in the beginning. Running twenty miles thru the forest in ten minutes is also fairly standard movie physics.
I'm not saying you can't have a do it all super woman within a film, but in that case she should be the lead character not playing second chair. All of the examples, Batman, Doc Savage etc are the main characters and none of them are depicted as super badass to just get tossed aside. The issue with Munn's character is a lack of consistency as she constantly waivers back and forth, she's incompetent enough to shoot herself in the foot and get tossed aside but runs faster than the bionic man leaps onto busses and sprints through mountains and heavy woods to catch up with a ship flying at high speed, not once but twice. First time when she bounds up the hill to take pot shots at the ship, then covers miles worth of distance to suddenly leap on the Predator. Not to mention she managed to spot and pick up the small cloaking ball at night which was nowhere near her, apparently she also managed to figure out how it works while mid sprint through the woods. Regardless of gender it's just bad writing for that character.
Where does a do-it-all female lead work? Alien & Aliens, Ripley stays consistent with her character as badass from the get go and doesn't suddenly become weak for random plot elements or for a male to take over. Ripley isn't some uber martial arts warrior leaping up and taking down her enemies in a kung fu leg grab but she's fierce and unbreakable mama bear which makes her both an awesome lead and believable.
AduroT wrote: You don’t have to be super spec ops just to jump on someone’s back from higher ground. I mean she jumped onto a moving bus in the beginning
I agree you probably don't need high physical skills to jump on the bus, but they probably help to stick the landing
I wouldnt call ripley a do-it-all. Shes a bad ass whos a space trucker that gets backed into a corner and goes scorched earth. Ive never seen her do the brainy science stuff.
Manchu wrote: That's correct about Ripley. She's neither a brainiac nor a combat prodigy. The fact that she's normal is actually what makes her so badass.
But we're long past the age when such characters can exist.
Agreed. Ripley was what you get when you take the 'final girl' all the way to her logical end point; a total bad ass whose bad ass because her experiences made her that way. Underrated brand of character that in this new fangled age of super soldiers and super powered whatsimawhosits.
KTG17 wrote: Well, looks like the reviews are as I feared. What is with all the failures at reboots? I swear I have yet to see one franchise get it right.
Starting a new thread to discuss.
Shame about Predator tho.
I would say Planet of the Apes got it right, though I have no idea how they compare to the originals. I really enjoyed all 3 of the newer Andy Serkis films.
KTG17 wrote: Well, looks like the reviews are as I feared. What is with all the failures at reboots? I swear I have yet to see one franchise get it right.
Starting a new thread to discuss.
Shame about Predator tho.
I would say Planet of the Apes got it right, though I have no idea how they compare to the originals. I really enjoyed all 3 of the newer Andy Serkis films.
Yes, those were good but they also took it on from a different timeline. The other reboot, with Marky-Mark, was terrible.
KTG17 wrote: Well, looks like the reviews are as I feared. What is with all the failures at reboots? I swear I have yet to see one franchise get it right.
Starting a new thread to discuss.
Shame about Predator tho.
The need to attempt a reboot by definition shows that the film maker hasn't got enough original ideas, and needs to depend on nostalgia.
Or if they have got some new ideas, they often end up changing the original in a way that conflicts with our nostalgia.
I don't think continuing this exchange will be worthwhile.
How about turrets soldier jumping on said 11 foot tall pred...While the predator is literally on fire - so he can stab him - because rifle could not penetrate his hide?
KTG17 wrote: Well, looks like the reviews are as I feared. What is with all the failures at reboots? I swear I have yet to see one franchise get it right.
Starting a new thread to discuss.
Shame about Predator tho.
I don't think this new Predator movie is intended to be a reboot, but a sequel to the others.
Manchu wrote: But it radically reworks the nature of the predators. So it’s a soft reboot at least.
It only radically reboots canon established outside of the movies.
Look at what data is given to us strictly in the 3 predator films and the avp films (the spear from avp is in the base so apparently they are pred cannon even though they CANT be in the aliens anymore).
Pred 1. Hunter come in the hottest years and make trophies of men. They have a code about taking trophies from the toughest prey and how they hunt that prey.
Pred 2. Younger preds go berzerk just hunting fething everything to prove themselves. Preds have been coming here for centuries. Preds can live for 300+ years.
Pred 3. Some off shoots of pred are bigger and sometimes hunt other preds. They make game reserve planets for gaks and giggles or to act as proving grounds for their advancements?
AvP. Preds have used ritual temples and xenomorphs as a right of passage for unblooded to become young bloods.
AvP R. When gak gets out of hand they can remotely dispatch a cleaner to remove their tech and clean gak up.
Nothing in The Predator contradicts any of that.
Nothing in The Predator is good mind you. It's all gak. But it doesn't change anything that came before.
Disagree. The Predator introduces the notion that Preds don’t really care about hunting and taking skull trophies but rather just harvesting DNA in spinal fluid, culminating is the Evolved Pred kidnapping a disabled human child - about the least Pred thing one can possibly imagine. I guess we are meant to think, maybe this is why the Normal Pred is against what’s happening (as no direct explanation is given or even attempted). So sure the idea could be, Preds have lost their way, culturally or spiritually or something, but there is no development of this notion in the other movies, so dropping such a major change in this newest movie qualifies as a soft reboot. The final product is such a terrible mess, maybe earlier drafts or even cuts explained this more, but it’s still rebooting (in the soft sense) because we have moved entirely away from the core concept of Pred as sport hunter.
Manchu wrote: Disagree. The Predator introduces the notion that Preds don’t really care about hunting and taking skull trophies but rather just harvesting DNA in spinal fluid,
It doesn't say they DON'T care. They can do 2 things at once. Especially if it's basically the same thing.
culminating is the Evolved Pred kidnapping a disabled human child - about the least Pred thing one can possibly imagine.
Yeah that bits basically the biggest dumbest thing in the big dumb movie.
I guess we are meant to think, maybe this is why the Normal Pred is against what’s happening (as no direct explanation is given or even attempted). So sure the idea could be, Preds have lost their way, culturally or spiritually or something, but there is no development of this notion in the other movies, so dropping such a major change in this newest movie qualifies as a soft reboot. The final product is such a terrible mess, maybe earlier drafts or even cuts explained this more, but it’s still rebooting (in the soft sense) because we have moved entirely away from the core concept of Pred as sport hunter.
It was never really a SPORT hunter. The implied cannon and expanded material has always shown that the preds hunt isn't merely sport. Its always something that has cultural significance for them. Establishing pecking order. Creating leaders, rank, status etc etc... The more and more valuable the trophies the higher the preds place in their society. That isn't just sport.
Sport is pretty damn culturally significant. But sure, as I mentioned, I guess the Preds have lost their way culturally or spiritually. Except some Preds (at least one?) are not on board. Maybe? Who knows.
Manchu wrote: That's correct about Ripley. She's neither a brainiac nor a combat prodigy. The fact that she's normal is actually what makes her so badass.
But we're long past the age when such characters can exist.
Agreed. Ripley was what you get when you take the 'final girl' all the way to her logical end point; a total bad ass whose bad ass because her experiences made her that way. Underrated brand of character that in this new fangled age of super soldiers and super powered whatsimawhosits.
Pretty much. Ripley's most famous superpower is the ability to run a walking forklift really well. Other than that, her combat prowess is mostly amateur level, it's just her dogged mental attitude that makes her a great heroine. She just grits her teeth and gets stuff done when pushed to the limits, rather than being an expert.
