Not sure it needs a new thread, but I'm more or less done. The only reason I bought into RRT was to get a full line of miniatures for the Macross era setting - I was going to do my own rules (The Palladium ones were gak anyway).
However, there are not enough unit options to make an interesting game now, and even if someone steps up and makes a bunch of 3D printed models to fill the void it'll be cost prohibitive.
I abandoned a shockingly expensive 1/200 Robotech project when RRT was announced. All I can hope now is that someone who is smarter, better, and less-criminal minded seizes the IP and does something useful with it. It's a tremendous IP and is ripe for miniature gaming.
warboss wrote: Let it die; Palladium certainly did way back in 2014.
Depends on what this thread is for. If it's for the extension of the game itself, then it's probably not worth trying to keep it alive as anything more than a vanity project. It'll slide into the same category as Renegade Legion, or any other half completed then abandoned game.
If it's for the Kickstarter campaign, then I'm definitely hoping it continues apace, though I hope people don't overextend themselves to get answers. And not just for this campaign, nor for justice against PB for being incompetent donkey clowns, but for the precedent set. If seven figure Kickstarters can go "Oops, my bad, peace out", with zero accountability, and shady numbers, it does jeopardize the whole system. I know some people dislike crowdfunding, but there are several games I've partaken of where I probably wouldn't have if I'd had to have gotten them at retail.
Jaymz, maybe you can clarify in the original post what this thread's scope is expected to be? Is it just for discussion of the game itself, or is it an open thread for all things RRT and PB related?
warboss wrote: Let it die; Palladium certainly did way back in 2014.
Oh no, they just reprinted a number of books and are starting a new product line where you can see projects in raw format before Kevin completely rewrites them.
Not dead, just lumbering along zombie-like powered by the money they kept from the kickstarter and skimmed off the shipping and handling from the accord and satisfaction scam.
warboss wrote: Let it die; Palladium certainly did way back in 2014.
Oh no, they just reprinted a number of books and are starting a new product line where you can see projects in raw format before Kevin completely rewrites them.
Not dead, just lumbering along zombie-like powered by the money they kept from the kickstarter and skimmed off the shipping and handling from the accord and satisfaction scam.
I was referring to Palladium letting the project die in 2014 by gambling money raised for the development and production of backer rewards on excess retail stock while also apparently not putting the profit from those retail sales back into the project according to their own incomplete and highly biased accounting. That admittedly wasn't clear in my brief post.
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n815e wrote: Still owed and not inclined to let it die.
Letting it die means that Kevin walks away without consequences.
I'm not letting them off the hook either. I closed out for around a third of what was owed to me and all but the metal blisters was NOT anything I had any interest in. I plan on expressing my dissatisfaction and truthfully recounting the facts whenever I see Palladium being discussed whether in person or online. My comment about letting it die was I regards to Jaymz' well meaning attempts to keep the game alive with fan support. It didn't work before the end of the campaign and it won't work now IMO. YMMV.
I will probably let the models sit on my shelf and gather dust in the box.
I have a couple rulesets I could probably use the models in such as:
Horizon Wars
Rampant Stars
Battletech
JUGS
Mechattack
etc.
However, I just haven't been motivated to put them together and get them painted. I really wanted some Zentraedi Foot soldiers (Yes, I see there are some on Shapeways) to do Reconstruction Blues, but I will probably never bother.
As of tomorrow, I will finally be able to divest myself of this KS, and in particular, PB.
I’ll be keeping my minis for now - they’re usable enough in Battletech, and if I ever get around to finishing my flight path (aka X-Wing) knockoff system for the minis, I’ll use them there.
Overall, it’s a shame, though. I bought a few PB books, including the recently redone Robotech books. It would have been nice to see Kevin & Co. pull themselves out of the muck, but they really, really botched it and my hope is they never recover.
Unfortunately, I don’t have faith we’ll ever see justice for the screw-job they did. It’ll take at least 5 years for a legal case, and I don’t get a sense that even that is gaining any steam.
Well, we neither forgive nor forget what Palladium Books has done to take the money of backers and not give agreed value on that.
They have chosen to walk away with "extra" money they have no right to and no word on refunds even though the "exchange" is an obvious attempt to reduce liability.
As to the Robotech game?
I pretty much have my models for a "complete" game so I can slowly get it all painted up, the game and miniatures are rather nice when all is said and done.
Just convincing myself to get a couple more VT squadrons together (24 models) is a bit of a chore.
Who knows, I might sell it all off as a package one day or keep it out of nostalgia or be sold off for "pennies on the dollar" for my estate when I pass.
I did get a few extra models for my Battletech, so that will be nice to roll back into that.
Battletech the PC game which was a successful kickstarter btw is making me wanting to play more.
Funny how that prior thread was killed with little ceremony and we still are in a bit of a limbo which is how Palladium Books likes it.
I suppose we can always look at the rotting carcass of the KS page to vent there.
Will be interesting to see if our Facebook litigation group manages to get any traction at all.
Some member mentioned that some AGs took some interest, so who knows: some luck may be had.
I will just content myself to only keep enough of an eye on PB to be a pain in the rear any time they try to make money.
As to anyone else posting here: we may not all have always gotten along but it certainly has been an "entertaining" shared experience.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: 1/200 is about the scale of Adeptus Titanicus...
At least I'll have some nice wrecks to sow around
I use a meat grinder on the largest die for putting sprues through for rubble (not used for food... ever).
It could be an interesting experiment!
For it to be epic in nature, feed them in assembled.
It would be reminiscent of the monks making pictures in coloured sand and sweeping it away.
No problem Warboss. As long as I'm receiving PBs weekly sales screed, guess I'll just have to make people aware of their poor customer service and dishonest business practices.
As for the game, it's dead. I realized that back during Spartan Gate, but hoped the hue and cry raised would alter the downward spiral. Sadly, Kevin was more interested in milking money out of the kickstarter than producing a solid game able to compete in the market.
What now? Well, I don't think I'll get anything from PB, but eh.
The destroids and battloids will certainly get use as unseens at the very least, and the stuff that PB renegued on delivering, well... I'll probably make some myself.
I'm going to use the Airmechs to bolster my LAM forces in Battletech; same with the Stinger, Wasp, and Valkyrie. Won't be able to add more Phoenix Hawks though. I might have enough to try out the Wasp/Stinger vs Atlas scenario. I'll do it with my fiancé, she can run the horde and I'll run the Atlas.
I'm mostly going to be using them for kitbash fodder. The Zentraedi minis are fun to assemble, though, so I may make some variations. I'd love to get ahold of some more Glaugs to try some ideas on.
The problem is, the line is "incomplete". Some of the more fun units - female power armor, armored/super valks, etc. either didn't get made or are metal.
I think a modified flight path (i.e., X-Wing) game would be pretty fun as well as an Alpha Strike Robotech.
--------------
BTW, my exchange items finally showed. Came by UPS - no wonder the shipping was ridiculous. I ended up opening the Tomahawk/Defender box, the rest is still unopened and I've just realized I don't have space for the set I just got.
Prelim VF-1 X-wing cards.....Basically I figure that during the activation step you decide what form you want and use that card/dial for the turn. As they all cost 14pts (and would have to share the same upgrades thus they all have the same upgrade slots) then you only pay once for the fighter in your force.
jaymz wrote: Would anyone be interested in a modified Alpha Strike to use them AS Robotech?
You could come up with a decent Robotech game, but the speed of the game and the differences in the mecha would have to be rather pronounced. You'd need to really change Alpha Strike heavily to make it reflect the speed of Robotech mecha. Sadly you're still stuck missing 60% of the mecha/vehicles they promised.
jaymz wrote: Prelim VF-1 X-wing cards.....Basically I figure that during the activation step you decide what form you want and use that card/dial for the turn. As they all cost 14pts (and would have to share the same upgrades thus they all have the same upgrade slots) then you only pay once for the fighter in your force.
Some nice work there. Back when the kickstarter first funded, I did some very preliminary work on converting the game to flightpath rules as well. At this point, though, it might be better to wait until the 2nd edition is out and convert it to that instead of soon to be legacy 1st edition IMO.
jaymz wrote: Legacy might be a way to keep it it's own?
Plus there be a need to figure out ground units...so DnD attack wing it is lol
Whatever suits you best as it was only a suggestion. I too took a look (a bit later on) at D&D attack wing's free rules to see how to incorporate it into the rules. I never fully decided on whether to keep movement templates or to have each template instead correspond to more traditional measured inch and 45 degree turns. The former obviously works great in space battles but felt clunky on the ground with a typical amount of terrain.
I second that. Horizon Wars is a great little rule set. A buddy and I have played it several times, and he used some of the Robotech stuff, while I used a mix of Dropzone Commander and Firestorm Planetfall.
jaymz wrote: Prelim VF-1 X-wing cards.....Basically I figure that during the activation step you decide what form you want and use that card/dial for the turn. As they all cost 14pts (and would have to share the same upgrades thus they all have the same upgrade slots) then you only pay once for the fighter in your force.
Some nice work there. Back when the kickstarter first funded, I did some very preliminary work on converting the game to flightpath rules as well. At this point, though, it might be better to wait until the 2nd edition is out and convert it to that instead of soon to be legacy 1st edition IMO.
This was my crack at it - didn't get incredibly far, but...further than I think PB did.
Given what I've seen so far of X-Wing 2.0 (full disclosure: everything from Wave 1), I think the changes introduced will probably make the conversion easier. I haven't checked out the D&D one, though, and I probably should.
While the base rules for the D&D Attack Wing are good (I used part of their rules for the "ground combat" in my version), their ability to design balanced units (and work within their bounds of their own rules) is horrid. There is a reason the game went nowhere, and why the Star Trek game is floundering.
So, it seems Palladium has won a Pyrrhic victory for now - they’ve bought off a small number of malcontent backers (which includes me), at the cost that only a dwindling number of the whitest knights will support - or care - about them. The threat of lawsuit seems to be hollow for now, and any mention of RRT by PB is now taboo.
Well, not cash - like I would have preferred - but I went for the product swap. In the end it didn’t feel worth it for me to stick out a lawsuit, for which I would have received nothing material in return. At this point holding out to bury PB seems foolish pride as I have faith they’ll manage to implode well enough by themselves. I feel I can confidently state that only a fool(ish mark/dupe) would continue to support them now.
I just tried to make a post on a thread in PB's forum about how I think PB didn't set out to swindle people but at some point along the way they definitely had to have made the choice to actively do so. It is being reviewed by mods now, let's see if it goes through lol.
One thing that prompted me to make the post was the last two PB news emails I've received say that they are doing RRT demos at upcoming cons. It seems very odd to me they'd do this for a game they stopped manufacturing and can't even sell.
They have a fairly aggressive 'new poster' system where your first couple of posts need to be reviewed. It goes away after a few, and even after a temp ban (that I did nothing worth implementing) and deleting posts outright without bothering to tell me, they still haven't put it back (or just shown me the door, if I'm such a malcontent).
Though my participation has been greatly reduced in the last year or so. I guess I can now assess that 'half a decade' is about as long as I'll actively hold a grudge.
However, due to an incident with a pizza place in my teen years, I can safely say that "two decades and counting" is how long I'll passively hold onto one.
New to the forum, no. But it was my first post lol.
I've been on Bolter & Chainsword for a while, so I'm used to mods deleting my posts without any notification . What really bugs me is when they close down a thread so they can have the last word in an argument.
You have read up a bit on the MODs at PB right?
They are under no obligation to allow any of your criticism or opinions to remain on the site, plus it IS PB's site so they are not required to host anything that may make them look bad.
I can't wait for some time to pass and the Kickstarter would then be referred to as "successfully completed", "wildly popular" and my favorite: "backers begging for more!".
It will be interesting when they will try to have another sales push.
I am sure they will need a break from being so exhausted from doing %500 more work than they are used to.
I am expecting to see their next KS "update" to say "If you want to continue your adventures, play RIFTS! With our new "Anime Stomping Robot" edition that will round out your collection!!"
Anyway, yes, it may be a lesson in letting go.
I am sure some new "crisis of treachery" will happen: Kevin cannot live without drama or he occasionally implodes.
Let's not forget the head MOD tried to stage a coup on a facebook group I had to retake control of after handing it off. He is really the main issue in regards to the mod team there.
I just found the mod review surprising and amusing, but ultimately not important.
The important part I thought was that PB is still, as of last Thursday, saying they will be running RRT demos at Cons they will be at.
...also that I think they did at some point actively decided to cheat their backers against the people saying that they don't think PB meant to do it. You get caught trying to hide a body and claim you found the person dead, it is not going to look good even if you can prove that you didn't kill the person.
jaymz wrote: Let's not forget the head MOD tried to stage a coup on a facebook group I had to retake control of after handing it off. He is really the main issue in regards to the mod team there.
Well, Facebook is a whole other thing.
You didn't hand that over to our good buddy NMI did you?
I was obviously not paying attention, what was he doing that could be considered a coup?
That would mean people would follow what he says which I am finding a bit hard to believe.
Or did the firm hand of dictatorship descend upon the masses?
At least we get a warning of two, usually from our fellow users before the MODs need to put their foot down.
I would still like to see a space here on Dakka where anyone can post some progress on their models or got a game in (whatever form that may be) and took pictures.
I was just looking at some VT electronic warfare bits a guy has been working on, it is still exciting times.
I just now have to get my hands on some Zent Infantry because blowing them up in their pods is just not good enough.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skaorn wrote: ...also that I think they did at some point actively decided to cheat their backers against the people saying that they don't think PB meant to do it. You get caught trying to hide a body and claim you found the person dead, it is not going to look good even if you can prove that you didn't kill the person.
It sounds a wee bit convoluted but I think it is pretty clear at some point they decided to keep what money they could after messing up with an insane amount of retail stock ordered.
I can absolutely guarantee they ran nothing out of pocket (How would I know? You have not been paying attention to how Kevin runs things...) and if there was anything they could keep after being forced to get rid of the stock they did.
"Best effort" made, collect their reward, and say "so-long and thanks for all the fish!"
Spoiler:
Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy: Curiously enough, the dolphins had long known of the impending demolition of Earth and had made many attempts to alert mankind to the danger. But most of their communications were misinterpreted as amusing attempts to punch footballs, or whistle for titbits, so they eventually gave up and left the Earth by their own means - shortly before the Vogons arrived. The last ever dolphin message was misinterpreted as a surprisingly sophisticated attempt to do a double backwards somersault through a hoop, whilst whistling the ‘Star-Spangled Banner’. But, in fact, the message was this “So long and thanks for all the fish”.
jaymz wrote: Let's not forget the head MOD tried to stage a coup on a facebook group I had to retake control of after handing it off. He is really the main issue in regards to the mod team there.
Well, Facebook is a whole other thing.
You didn't hand that over to our good buddy NMI did you?
I was obviously not paying attention, what was he doing that could be considered a coup?
That would mean people would follow what he says which I am finding a bit hard to believe.
Or did the firm hand of dictatorship descend upon the masses?
At least we get a warning of two, usually from our fellow users before the MODs need to put their foot down.
The usual tactic of Palladium white knights back in the day was to stroll into a productive constructive criticism thread that was well within the rules (even by NMI's shifting sands standards) and stir the pot with ignorant or insulting posts. When those originally posting would take the bait, they'd report the thread and it would get closed (usually with no penalty for the gak stirrers and the discussion ended just like they planned). I have no idea what happened with their facebook coup so would be interested in hearing more on that though.
I would still like to see a space here on Dakka where anyone can post some progress on their models or got a game in (whatever form that may be) and took pictures.
I was just looking at some VT electronic warfare bits a guy has been working on, it is still exciting times.
I don't have any issue with that. At the moment for me personally, I wouldn't post in the thread as I frankly don't have anything remotely positive or uplifting to add to Robotech discussions. Palladium (and to a lesser extent HG through their inaction while Palladium misled their shared mutual customers) has ruined Robotech for me and only time will tell if it is temporary (as in a few years) or permanent. I suppose if the movie ever actually goes into production, I'll see if it can generate a spark of interest in me. YMMV and I wish others the best with their hobby work.
I ran a pb based fb group.
I handed it over to group of people to run stipulating nmi is to never be given any mod powers.
One of three went a bit whacko and turfed the other 2.
I found out by complete fluke.
Whacko took the bait of help from nmi.
I played midiator retook control and got the three back on the same page.
The three plus one more now run day to day as mods while I remain admin.
fethwit got a temp booting out of the group.
Nmi has been wanting to get his mitts on that group since I started it and embarrasssed pb into putting up a fb page months sooner than they wanted to thus being shown to be idiots for saying putting up a fb page was too much work at the time. My guess is he couldn't stand to see people being able too talk ill of pb without consequence.
Was the power hungry mod/admin anyone we'd know from the official forums? That sounds a bit complex tbh for a white knight scheme as they typically just prefer simple abuse of power granted by the Kev Almighty. Why didn't you originally just stay the admin and hand off mod functions (and day to day stuff) over to the triumvirate while also unfollowing/muting/whatever the group so you don't see what's going on until you specifically want to?
Yeah it was nmi the head mod on the official forums.
As for staying admin. I wanted zero to do with pb aside from my own stuff on my personal group and wiki. It was fine for a year. The other two groups are going just fine as well after 2 years of me not being admin (though I am still a member).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like I said though....it really rubbed him raw that people could speak openly for good or ill about pb and there was nothing he could do abou it. He was in effect powerless there and people there knew it. Mind you he's vindictively gone after people on the official forums for things said in that Facebook group. Yes he is that petty.
Considering he banned me years ago for three months *for someone else's post!* in a RRPGT complaint thread on the Palladium forums, I certainly believe he would do that.
The group I admin is likely also the most open to discussion of Palladium games and company there is. Generally no issue with language used etc. Pretty much all the others seem to one down on people "talk games not company we're all here to have fun"
Yep, writing on the wall:
Kickstarter page is pretty much imploding.
Pretty dead/sleepy here.
I really hope Palladium Books chokes on what little remains on "marketshare".
They are not used to working for a living so they will decide to give themselves a break for a while that will slip-by faster than anticipated.
There will be some panicked flogging of product (Christmas in... what month is this??) and then maybe a "save Palladium" plea later on.
I would really like to see their open-house at a later date but cannot bring myself to hand them any kind of money.
I am sure some appropriate legal means of showing my "appreciation" for them will present itself.
Talizvar wrote: Yep, writing on the wall:
Kickstarter page is pretty much imploding.
Pretty dead/sleepy here.
I really hope Palladium Books chokes on what little remains on "marketshare".
They are not used to working for a living so they will decide to give themselves a break for a while that will slip-by faster than anticipated.
There will be some panicked flogging of product (Christmas in... what month is this??) and then maybe a "save Palladium" plea later on.
I would really like to see their open-house at a later date but cannot bring myself to hand them any kind of money.
I am sure some appropriate legal means of showing my "appreciation" for them will present itself.
Take care.
Yep. PB's primary line of defence seems to be working again - the apathy of those they've ripped off.
So, in the latest GenCon newsletter, Palladium get a position of prominence (a good 2/3 on the second page of a page in a 3 page letter).
As a regular attendee (this will be my 13th trip in 15 years), I have contacted GenCon to express my displeasure, explain the situation, and hopefully see that it never happens again.
Palladium should never be given the opportunity to promote themselves, or have themselves promoted, without comment.
Oh cool, I backed her Kickstarter, and while I haven't agreed with every bit of every video, it'd be nice to say hi and thank her for her (and her team's) work.
I really should read the Gencon newsletters more closely.
Edit: finishes page. Dakka Discussions? Huh. I would've assumed that was an Off Topic thread by the responses it garnered. And Ouze being their usual reasonable self. Patience of a saint, that one...
Edit3: holy feth that goes on for 45 pages? Feth me nope nope nope, not tonight. Not enough whiskey in the house to dig through all of that in one sitting.
Forar wrote: Oh cool, I backed her Kickstarter, and while I haven't agreed with every bit of every video, it'd be nice to say hi and thank her for her (and her team's) work.
I really should read the Gencon newsletters more closely.
Edit: finishes page. Dakka Discussions? Huh. I would've assumed that was an Off Topic thread by the responses it garnered. And Ouze being their usual reasonable self. Patience of a saint, that one...
Edit3: holy feth that goes on for 45 pages? Feth me nope nope nope, not tonight. Not enough whiskey in the house to dig through all of that in one sitting.
45 pages in less than 6 days, I should note. That's a little less than 8 pages in a day, and that's with Fridays tending to be dead on Dakka. Not familiar with the lady at all, but I got the sense the discussion got more than a little inflamed (read about a page and a half).
Bet Kevin wishes he could incite that sort of impassioned discussion.
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Currently the only book that's been released since last GenCon is Sovietski (Atlanteans was at GenCon), though there are apparently one book, and three RAW's due in the next couple weeks. Glad they were able to put the funds from the firesale to good use. Only one of these (CE First Responders) was on the backlog at the start of the year. So they're back to making new gak rather than delivering on stuff they've promised for years. I think RRT backers know what that's like.
They keep fething that chicken on the movie deal. It's more than pathetic at this point. We live in a world of infinite possibilities. But I still can't see this thing ever happening.
And I've been past their booth every year since 2013, and frankly, I've "seen the excitement" or the lack thereof. With the exception of the 2013 Max/Miriya taking up the first hour or so of each day, it's arguably the least traffic'd booth of it's size in the entire convention. There are less traffic'd booths, but they're significantly smaller.
Forar wrote: Oh cool, I backed her Kickstarter, and while I haven't agreed with every bit of every video, it'd be nice to say hi and thank her for her (and her team's) work.
I really should read the Gencon newsletters more closely.
Edit: finishes page. Dakka Discussions? Huh. I would've assumed that was an Off Topic thread by the responses it garnered. And Ouze being their usual reasonable self. Patience of a saint, that one...
Edit3: holy feth that goes on for 45 pages? Feth me nope nope nope, not tonight. Not enough whiskey in the house to dig through all of that in one sitting.
I guess we could call this GenCon: The Con-travesty (controversy) edition.
Funny, Palladium Books is holding 4 RPG sessions (2 scenarios played twice) using Robotech GM'ed by Matthew Leviant.
"Southern Cross Jungle Rescue"
An AWACs aircraft has been shot down while flying over the Zentraedi Control Zone. It is up to you to rescue the downed aircrew! "Stranded!"
Trapped on an unknown planet, surrounded by Invid. How did you get there & what are you going to do to get back to the fleet? Seems odd to promote a game using product you can no longer sell unless...
Didn't see any being held by Kevin.
Always good to have fan-friends do the heavy lifting.
Stormonu wrote: Think it would be worth notifying Harmony Gold that PB is still attempting to capitalize on their IP? A HG C&D slapdown would be hilarious.
This is another great reason why PB rarely promotes their own stuff: if a fan does it, can you really slap a C&D down?
It IS Harmony Gold so very likely if informed they would put a stop to it for giggles.
Got to keep the way clear for new license holders.
<edit> On the Anita note, she hammers the misogyny button so hard I keep second guessing why I don't typically like/agree with what she says: her videos and methods of writing seems very divisive rather than furthering the inclusivity she claims to seek.
It is kinda like dealing with Kevin: you hear many claims but the person's actions are the only thing you can use to judge a person's character (I shall not and will not claim an actual comparison with her and Kevin, that would be just mean to her, she gets enough flack.).
Ah well, I really would like to make the long trip to Gencon, I think my head would explode, it would be much fun.
Some good news: no sign of them at Dragoncon.
Even did an RPG search under the "Palladium Games" one that was provided and no hits (so-far).
I always wanted to go to that venue since it seems a bit more on the "underground" side and "Cruxshadows" plays there every year.
Anyway, new Warhammer 40k release of stomping robots "Imperial Knights" so terribly distracted again.
Too many games promote the slow ponderous machines, what I always liked about Robotech was the hyperactive speed of the machines portrayed, nevermind the insane missile salvoes and responding evasive action.
Stormonu wrote: Think it would be worth notifying Harmony Gold that PB is still attempting to capitalize on their IP? A HG C&D slapdown would be hilarious.
This is another great reason why PB rarely promotes their own stuff: if a fan does it, can you really slap a C&D down?
It IS Harmony Gold so very likely if informed they would put a stop to it for giggles.
Got to keep the way clear for new license holders.
A fan doing it is one thing, PB putting it into their personal newsletter when we KNOW they’ve lost the license for the product is just scummy.
I tried to notify HG myself, but their stupid web site just has a phone number and no customer support e-mail. Somehow seems par for the course.
I'll post other things too (ships etc) for robotech and macross going forward as i do them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok i am not sure why it insists on not having the ) as part of hte link at the end....you will need to copy paste the link in full into the nav bar.
Forar wrote: Oh cool, I backed her Kickstarter, and while I haven't agreed with every bit of every video, it'd be nice to say hi and thank her for her (and her team's) work.
I really should read the Gencon newsletters more closely.
Edit: finishes page. Dakka Discussions? Huh. I would've assumed that was an Off Topic thread by the responses it garnered. And Ouze being their usual reasonable self. Patience of a saint, that one...
Edit3: holy feth that goes on for 45 pages? Feth me nope nope nope, not tonight. Not enough whiskey in the house to dig through all of that in one sitting.
I guess we could call this GenCon: The Con-travesty (controversy) edition.
Funny, Palladium Books is holding 4 RPG sessions (2 scenarios played twice) using Robotech GM'ed by Matthew Leviant.
"Southern Cross Jungle Rescue"
An AWACs aircraft has been shot down while flying over the Zentraedi Control Zone. It is up to you to rescue the downed aircrew!
"Stranded!"
Trapped on an unknown planet, surrounded by Invid. How did you get there & what are you going to do to get back to the fleet? Seems odd to promote a game using product you can no longer sell unless...
Didn't see any being held by Kevin.
Always good to have fan-friends do the heavy lifting.
Plus I'd put money that all the stats they are using for Southern Cross, if they use Southern Cross, is from stuff that I did up.
I decided to crack open a box of the Phalanx and Spartan destroids to use with my Battletech stuff and OMG is the assembly terrible on them. I'd previously built a couple Zentraedi pods which went together without much difficulty but the RDF stuff makes me want to burn the rest of it instead of facing the task of building it all. You have a bunch of parts that require a specific pairing to fit but there's no numbers on the parts.
The sprues all have these weird balls right next to the connection point so that it makes safely removing the part very difficult without pitting the plastic. You have tiny cockpit pieces and in the case of the Phalanx the sprue attaches directly over the window making it near impossible to remove and clean up without accidentally chopping of the corner supports. So many of the parts are needlessly tiny and split in two which makes assembly a giant pain in the ass as you are trying to handle heads that might be made up of 2-3 parts. I dropped pieces so many times it wasn't funny. The plastic itself is very brittle and pits and mars far more easily than any model kits I've ever worked with which makes clean up very tedious. Even after you get the plastic cleaned up you have seam lines all over the model and many of them are in recessed areas of the model making it very difficult to file, sand, or fill with greenstuff.
I really don't know how anyone has had the patience to assembly full armies of these models, even doing just a couple models is an exercise in frustration. I love building 40k stuff and have a massive collection of Macross models so I'm certainly no newbie slouch when it comes to modelling and these are just plain nightmarish, all of the KS antics aside I can see why the game would fail simply due to the difficulty of building the models.
The models are buildable (although the gerwalk arms are a major PITA), they just require more cleanup than one has become accustomed to in the modern era. They're laid out like 1970s kits, not new releases from Bandai.
I've built a ton of the 1980's Macross/Robotech kits that are the cheaply done 1/200 scale ones and even being 30 years old the plastic is less brittle and more forgiving than these, the parts aren't needlessly complex either. It's like they took all the worst features of early 80's model kits and expanded on it. How do you forget to number the parts?? That's been a standard feature for models kits since the 1950's.
Not arguing that they aren't buildable but they are a royal pain compared to pretty much anything made in the last 25-30 years. I'd classify building the RDF mechs as similar to enjoyment for people who like going to the dentist for root canals, sure you survive the experience but it's not what most people want to do.
Not arguing that they aren't buildable but they are a royal pain compared to pretty much anything made in the last 25-30 years. I'd classify building the RDF mechs as similar to enjoyment for people who like going to the dentist for root canals, sure you survive the experience but it's not what most people want to do.
Hell, doing root canal treatment is easier than building those things!
You can quote me on that.
I wanted my Unseens for BT, I've built a Warhammer, Rifleman, Archer and Longbow. That's it. I don't know if I can face building any more of them. Four models out of a Showdown pledge...
paulson games wrote: I decided to crack open a box of the Phalanx and Spartan destroids to use with my Battletech stuff and OMG is the assembly terrible on them. I'd previously built a couple Zentraedi pods which went together without much difficulty but the RDF stuff makes me want to burn the rest of it instead of facing the task of building it all. You have a bunch of parts that require a specific pairing to fit but there's no numbers on the parts.
The sprues all have these weird balls right next to the connection point so that it makes safely removing the part very difficult without pitting the plastic. You have tiny cockpit pieces and in the case of the Phalanx the sprue attaches directly over the window making it near impossible to remove and clean up without accidentally chopping of the corner supports. So many of the parts are needlessly tiny and split in two which makes assembly a giant pain in the ass as you are trying to handle heads that might be made up of 2-3 parts. I dropped pieces so many times it wasn't funny. The plastic itself is very brittle and pits and mars far more easily than any model kits I've ever worked with which makes clean up very tedious. Even after you get the plastic cleaned up you have seam lines all over the model and many of them are in recessed areas of the model making it very difficult to file, sand, or fill with greenstuff.
I really don't know how anyone has had the patience to assembly full armies of these models, even doing just a couple models is an exercise in frustration. I love building 40k stuff and have a massive collection of Macross models so I'm certainly no newbie slouch when it comes to modelling and these are just plain nightmarish, all of the KS antics aside I can see why the game would fail simply due to the difficulty of building the models.
Thanks for posting this. Every once in a while, I get the urge to pick up Battletech again. Being very very old, I don't really like any designs after the first Techincal Readout. Everyone once in a while, I need to be reminded not to buy these models.
To get the foul taste of assembling RRT stuff out of my mouth I spent all day yesterday building an Armored Core kit. Those things are a billion pieces and it took me a solid 7-8 hours to build but the engineering that goes into it is amazing and it's all snap fit (although I used some glue anyways) they build like some godly lego genius constructed them. I sometimes wonder if they are a bit over engineered but the detailing is simply amazing and not a bad price point considering they are the size of knight titan and half the price even after paying a hefty import delivery price.
It had me thinking that I want to pick up some higher grade Macross kits now since despite the douchery from HG and cooling on the show I still never tire of the designs and I want some more on my display shelf. As far as Battletech I think it's still worth it to pick up a few of the old Ral Partha models as they are pretty well on par with the RRT stuff even though they're 25 years old. It takes a bit to hunt ebay for them and it's not always cheap but I've managed to collect a full set over a 6 month period, then of course they can be recast for personal use if you want a large group of them.
I've got 3d models for almost all of the core RDF stuff so I'm looking at printing a set of stuff for myself since it'll be easier to work with than the plastics and I can adjust some of the details that I don't like about the RRT ones. I think as a game RRT it was a dud and it won't ever get enough of a fan base behind it but I think that people are still going to find a way to use the models either for Battletech or with other rules systems. If you get them on sale cheap enough it may be worth the hassle of putting them together to make a lance or two but a whole army is a project for the seriously devoted fans, people have done it and they have my respect for suffering through that process but I don't see myself doing it as I'd rather put the time and energy into making my own 3d ones since I also enjoy creating stuff from scratch. Not everybody has that option so the RRT might hold more viability for them, for anyone who does have access to a good quality printer there's a lot of options on thingverse and other sites or even just asking around in the Robotech fan groups.
As far as gaming with Battletech I've found that there's a large portion of the player base that prefers to play in the pre-clan sucession war setting so the classic unseen macross designs are almost always welcome. At least with our local crowd the general opinion is that Battletech is too full of bloat once you allow for all the expanded tech so there's a very strong preference for "classic" game play of 3025 era. This also has the advantage that it's friendly towards new players since it's the rules content of the core boxes so if they have that then they don't need to dump a lot into chasing down a thousand different tech readouts. (They also get wowed when they discover advanced tech later on) We've had a few new people show some interest in the game since the HBS video game released, not a lot but considering it's been years since there was any new blood even a small handful of 4-5 people feels like a lot of fresh faces.
RRT is a pretty solid game design and very fun and playable. If only Palladium had put FPA in Wave 1 because I think that is really what's missing to give Zentraedi more tactical options. RDF is pretty good as-is.
Not arguing that they aren't buildable but they are a royal pain compared to pretty much anything made in the last 25-30 years. I'd classify building the RDF mechs as similar to enjoyment for people who like going to the dentist for root canals, sure you survive the experience but it's not what most people want to do.
Hell, doing root canal treatment is easier than building those things!
You can quote me on that.
I wanted my Unseens for BT, I've built a Warhammer, Rifleman, Archer and Longbow. That's it. I don't know if I can face building any more of them. Four models out of a Showdown pledge...
I would say the VT's are the absolute worst of the bunch for build.
Prior to the DTRPG "enhanced" build guide I managed to put the wrong feet on the "Rifleman", I rarely mix up parts but that was a bit of a mess.
I still want to know why o' why the VTs have that tiny itty bitty piece on the chest.
It really could not be molded on direct?
I am "used" to the models now so it is not as big a deal to assemble but to build 12 models for a squadron of 4 can be a bit much.
I am still tripping over my RRT stuff, I will dust them off eventually after I catch up on some 40k stuff I am working on...
...And now I have the urge to convert a Battloid with a cape.
Nah. I don't really like the Armor kits compared to the dynamic Narratives, and I really dislike the look of the Unarmored, so they went on the block immediately.
As for capes on robots, that's a pretty classic look...
Spoiler:
... but it goes up a notch in badass if you're surfing a naval destroyer in the middle of the ocean
Evangelion got really weird, really fast, but it truly had some badass moments interspersed between the... well they just leaned into it, whatever it was.
(I'm aware about the personal problems some of the staff and whatnot were going through, lest anyone feel the need to write a treatise on it; it's a throwaway post, not an exhaustive list of why NGE goes Full Kojima at times).
Updated some real world craft with Structural Integrity for MZ Cinematic to fight with the VF-0 or otherwise if anyone wants them. I'll be updated furhter soon with "fleet" stats as well.
I wouldn't mind be able to play the Core Box minis under KOG light (under Game Design), but never got around to converting the stats over. It's exceedingly low in priority, but if you were looking for a superlight game engine to play with, you could do far worse.
Forar wrote: Evangelion got really weird, really fast, but it truly had some badass moments interspersed between the... well they just leaned into it, whatever it was.
(I'm aware about the personal problems some of the staff and whatnot were going through, lest anyone feel the need to write a treatise on it; it's a throwaway post, not an exhaustive list of why NGE goes Full Kojima at times).
This got me curious so I looked it up. Apparently the director suffered from depression and wrote those themes into NGE. It makes a lot more sense to me now, at least.
Evangelion's an interesting show with some of the most artistic mecha fights.
I found the show's psychological drama exciting, to be honest. So many heroes of shows are not portrayed as flawed humans struggling with their demons.
The show's unusual take on Christian mythology was a treat. I read a lot into it at the time of watching it -- things like Shinji being the antichrist in the sense that he is the harbinger of the end of the world and determines its future state.
Mecha fights were cool, but the characters and story were what brought me back.
I hope it doesn't, because I agree. At least in western entertainment, so much of other cultures and religions are seen as fair game for incorporation into our movies, books, shows, games, etc, so it was fascinating to see the same treatment be given to Christianity. And while the show was full of highly flawed people, I didn't feel it took a disrespectful tone with the lore/mythology it was drawing from.
End of Evangelion and whatnot has some epic stuff interspersed with some more oddity.
The reboot is 'pants on head' strange. 1.11 or whatever it's called is a fairly faithful retelling of much of the original, but I think it's around 2.22 that gak goes completely sideways. I believe I've seen 3.33, but it's all kind of a weird blur at this point.
... holy feth, 3.33 was released in 2012? And 4.44 (or 3.0+1.0 or whatever insanity they're going from, the Wiki page is a glance in the the Abyss) has yet to be released? Those aren't Duke Nukem Forever numbers, but that's a hell of a delay between them. Apparently the studio was working on a Godzilla movie in 2016 that held things up.
n815e wrote: Sorry, I just realized that the above post may cross a line in terms of religion, if the moderators want to remove it please do with my apologies.
Huh? Not at all.
1.11 seems like a faithful retelling until you realize it has an overall ... happy vibe to it. Which is shocking.
But maybe start a new thread to discuss Eva in Geek Media. This thread is way off topic.
Evangelion was a really cool departure from traditional giant-robot genre tropes though. I like how it started with the traditional teens-in-giant-robots but the teens are weird (Rey being a clone, etc), and the robots aren't robots (although the design is kind of a hint), and the motivation of the attacking monsters is complicated.